A brief DISCOVERY OF The People CALLED QUAKERS, AND A Warning to all People to beware of them, AND OF THEIR Dangerous Principles.  
BEING A true Narrative of the sum and substance of two Disputes with them at two several Meetings, that is to say, with John whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire, Sept. 2. and with George whitehead, and George Fox, at Lin in Norfolk, Sept. 15.1659.  
By John H●rne, and Thomas Moore, Junior: both of Lin aforesaid.  Beware of False Prophets which come to you in sheeps clo●hing, but inwardly th●y are ravening wolves. By their fruits( not by their clothing) ye shall know them, &c. Mat●. 7.15.16. Jesus said unto them, Take h●ed that no man deceive you, for many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ, and shall deceive many. Then if any man shall say unto you. Lo here is Christ, o● there, bel●eve it not: For there shall arise false Christs and fal●e Prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, so as if possible to d●ceive the very elect: Behold I have tol● you before, Math. 24 4, 5, 23, 24, 25. 
London: Printed by J. Brudenell for the Authors, 1659.   

A brief DISCOVERY OF THE QUAKERS, And a WARNING to all People to beware of them.  
THat all people may take heed of the people called Quakers, 
Septem. 2  these are to give notice to them, that we having lately proved them in two several disputes, 
Sept. 15.  one with John Whi●ehead at Cedney in lincolnshire, the other with George Whitehead and George Fox at lin in norfolk, we do clearly find them, and so also did many of the Hearers( that had any understanding, and were not partakers with them, and 〈◇〉 upon their deceits) discern them guilty of these great 〈◇〉  
1 They do pl●●d for and maintain a perfection of sinlesness in themselves in this l●fe, which is a great ●●rour, and discovers them to be deceived, and the truth not in them, and so to swerve from the Apostles Doctrine, who never said of themselves or any other Man or Woman besides Christ Jesus, that they had no sin in them; it is said indeed of Christ that he was manifested to take away sin, and in him is no sin, 1 Job. 3.4, 5. but never is it so said of any other. I● is said indeed that he that abideth in Him sinneth not, and he that is born of God doth not commit or work sin, because the seed of God abides in him, neither can he sin( that is as before, commit, work or yield up to sin) because he is born of God, which is no more then a Man acted and led of God cannot therein sin or do sin, but it is no where said by any one of the Saints of themselves, or of any of their Brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners; but on the contrary, if we say saith the Apostle John, 1 Joh. 1.8, 9, 10. that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us; if the Apostle said so of themselves, what shall we say of these Mens witnessings of themselves, that they have no sin, but that they are deceived, and no truth in them, and so that they are reprobate concerning the faith, and though they may speak many truth, as the devil also can to deceive, yet the truth is not in them, Paul saith of himself, Rom. 7.16, 17. If I do that which I would not, I consent to the Law that it is good, now then it is no more I, but sin that dwelleth in me, and that in him that is in his flesh dwelleth no good thing, and again vers. 20. If I do that I would not, it is no more I, but sin that dwelleth in me, &c. yea in Tim. 1. 1●. He saith he was then when an Apostle the chief of sinners, for he says in the present time speaking of sinners, of whom I am( not I was, but I am) the chief, Solomon also saith, 1 Kings. 8.46. There is no Man that sinneth not, and Prov. 20, 9. who can say I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin, and in Eccles. 7.20. There is not a just Man upon Earth that doth good and sinneth not, and David, if thou Lord shalt mark iniquities who can stand,( as implying that none can, Psal. 130.3. and James, in many things we offend all, James 3.1, 2. It is true indeed that CHRIST said of Nathaniel that he was an Israelite, in whom was no guile, Joh. 1.47. which George Whitehead urged to that purpose: but as was then answered him, it is not said that there was no sin in him, and though he pleaded that all sin is guile, yet the contrary was testified from 1 Pet. 2.1, 2. where hypocrisy, and envy, and malice, and evil speakings are distinguished from guile, guile being a deceitful hiding a Mans sin, as may be seen in Psal. 32.2, 3, 4. where keeping lose, and not confessing a Mans sin is opposed to a Man in whose spirit is no guile, or guile is double-heartednesse or deceit; and though the said George Whitehead not acquiescing in the clear distinction of Scripture, distinguishing guile from other sins, argued thus, all sin is a transgression of the Law, but guile is a transgression of the Law, therefore guile is all sin, yet all that can understand Argument or Reasoning, may discern that therein he shewed himself to be a Deceiver and Sophister, for by that way of Reasoning as was then answered him, a Man may prove that lying is all sin, because after the same manner a Man may reason: All sin is a transgression of the Law, but lying is a transgression of the Law, and so murder and adultery, and theft should not be distinct sins from lying, that this sinlesness in this life was pleaded for at both Meetings, is a thing known to all the Hearers generally, pleaded for I say as a thing attained by some believers, if not all, and so a thing witnessed by some of themselves: as also it appears in the Declaration of their faith by Edward burrow, where it is said page. 4. that they believe the Saints upon Earth may be perfectly freed from the body of sin and death; and in a Book of Margaret Abbots, that they who have believed in CHRIST, the second Adam comes to prove the first Adams state before the Fall: not shall come, but comes, and however it is false, for Adam before his Fall had neither sin in him, nor death upon him, but surely the Quakers must die as well as other Men; Adam also before his Fall was under a Covenant of works, do this and live, and might possibly sin and die, but not to the believers: not under a Covenant of works here, nor hereafter, after the Resurrection capable of sinning and dying; so that herein they are concluded to be Preachers of lies and errors, under pretence of Preaching perfection; that we are complete in Christ, and by the grace of Christ received, shall be, and may be here made perfect-hearted with Christ, and in due time at the coming of Christ again be made perfect by Christ, we say, and so the Apostles preached; but that some are sinless here, neither Christ, nor any Apostle or Prophet ever preached of any, except Christ, therefore these People the Quakers are Deceivers. Look to yourselves people that you do not follow them, for then will you go into Destruction; This leading Men to pride and presumption in themselves, and to neglect Christ, and dependence upon him, and his Mediation for them.  
2 The said John Whitehead, George Whitehead, and George Fox, at the said Meetings were clearly proved and discovered to be reprobate concerning the faith, as touching the Person of Christ, for they did not, nor could be brought to aclowledge that Christ is glorified in the Heavens without all Men, the Heavens above the Clouds, and distinct from the visible Earth in the same body which suffered, was crucified, dead, and butted; but though John Whitehead using subtlery, would seem to confess that he hath a Body glorified in the Heavens, yet he discovered himself to be wickedly erroneous in asking, what? a Heaven many miles distant from us, as denying that he was at such a distance in his Body from believers, and pleading that he being the head of his Church, and they his members, there could be no such distance; to which it was replied( and he could not deny it) that believers are Members one of another, and yet might be 500. or a 1000. miles distant, as to bodily presence; yea when it was urged against him, that the Apostle says while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord; the said John would have evaded it by saying, while the mind goes out after earthy or bodily things, though it is clear there, as was observed to him that the Apostle speaks of themselves, a looking at things not seen, and walking by faith, not by sight, not going out after earthy things, but confident and desirous rather to be absent from the body, and as all the Chapter before makes it evident, as also Philip. 1.21, 22. That he speaks of being observation the natural body, and at home in the natural body, and so that while at home in that earthy House of this Tabernacle, of earthy Body, they were absent from the Lord. The other 2. also, the 2. Georges before mentioned( it was evident to all the people that would see) by no means would be drawn to give a direct answer to this Question, 
Eph. 5.3.  whether Christ hath any body of flesh and bones distinct from all other Bodies and spirits of Men, or of all his people, but they said that they were flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bone, which the Apostles never preached, but only that believers are members of his Body,( namely his mystical Body) of his flesh and of his bones, not flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bone; and sometimes again they would say that Christ had, and hath a body distinct from this flesh and bone, pointing to their own bodies, and giving this distinction, that their body or flesh might be seen, but he hath a body that cannot be seen to the outward eye; still meaning no other, but all his Church or people; yea though they said the same body that suffered was glorified as Gods right hand in Heaven, yet still they meant but his Church, either by his body, or by the Heavens, which appeared in that they would not be drawn to answer to the Question as before, whether he hath a Body distinct from all the bodies and spirits of all believers; now 〈◇〉 is also a very fundimentall error contrary to the Scripture, as was shewed from Luke 24.39. that he had a body of flesh and bones, with hands and feet, &c. and vers. 50, 51. that he in that body was so carried up into Heaven, as to be partend from his Disciples, and not carried up into them, and from 1 Thess. 4.15, 16. and Phil. 3.20, 21. where it is said, Christ shall descend from Heaven, but not from, but to his Church and people, yea this of the Quakers denying that body glorified, doth at once turn up by the roots all the faith of Christs appearing in the presence of God to mediate for us, and make intercession, in which the Apostles and Primitive believers had so much of their hope and rejoicing, Rom. 8.33, 34. and also all the faith and hope of his glorious descending and coming from Heaven again to change our vile bodies that they might be fashioned into the likeness of his glorious body; if there be no such body of his for our vile bodies to be made like unto, and so also of all the kingdom and glory to be revealed to and enjoyed by the Saints, instead of which one of them( Joseph Fisher in a paper we had from him) talks of the new birth or babe in men now changing the natural body into the likeness of his before the separation of body and spirit, therein agreeing with Hymeneus and Philetus that were out of the Apostles faith: and said the resurrection is now made, 2 Tim. 2.16, 17, 18. and are not these persons of very dangerous principles that strike off so much of the faith and hope of the Gospel at a blow; people take heed of them.  
3. Yea they are, and so discovered themselves at both those meetings to be reprobate concerning the faith, as touching the resurrection of the dead, for they positively affirmed that the same body that dyes shall not be raised again, and would have perverted the scriptures of the Apostle, in 1 Cor. 15. To serve their turn reading it, that which thou sowest is not quickened, and leaving out except it die; so John Whitehead at Gedney, and so the other at Lin left out part of the next verse, and when it was urged that the Apostle says, it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body, it the same it that is sown is raised, though it rise not the same,( in the same quality or condition) yet it would not be received; but it was said another body is raised up or given it, and when we asked J●●● Whitehead whither that which shall be given instead of the body that dyed was ever dead, he plainly said he would not answer it; nor did he, as also he argued against the redemption of the body to be waited for or expected after death, and said the Apostles had it before the death of the body, likewise it being propounded to George Fox what that is that should rise, he said a spiritual body; being asked whether that spiritual body was ever dead, he would not answer, but in general aequivocall terms, that which dyed is, or shall be raised( which they might mean of the dead spirit dead in sin) but would not be brought to confess that, that body that dyes shall be raised, or to say whither the spiritual body was ever dead.  
4. We also further in both places proved them to be Antichristians, and privily to deny or not to confess, magnify or lift up Christ as come in the flesh by a passage in that book of Edward Burroughs before mentioned of the Quakers so called, where it is said that Christ is to be known after the spirit, as he was before the world was, and that is the knowledge of him which is to eternal salvation, which is a airy plain discovery of them to be Antichristian, and subtle deceivers, for though they in the said book aclowledge that Christ was made manifest in Judea and Jerusalem, and was persecuted, and crucified, arose, and ascended, and is glorified at Gods right hand, yet they make no mention of his bearing or suffering for sins in his death; and by what is before said, it is evedent they therein are deceitful and aequivocate, as also in that he says a little before, that he is given into all the world, and no Nation, country, and people is excepted, but to all mankind is he given, and hath lightened them, 'tis manifest to them that can and will see that he means of him but as a light or principle given into men, and they can& may in their canting language say so too, he is manifest in England, and is persecuted, and dyer, and rises as well, as in Judea, and Jerusalem, however in the foresaid expression they make nothing of his being born, suffering and dying in the flesh, while they imply that the knowing of him as so, is not to eternal salvation, but the knowledge of him after the spirit, as he was before the world, while they make that the knowledge of him to eternal salvation, they imply that other knowledges of him are not that knowledge to salvation, and when they say after the spirit, as he was before the world was, they intimately deny his humanity now remaining, yea the saying he is to be known after the spirit as he was before the world was, implies and manifests their great ignorance and error, for the Apostle makes the knowledge of him as one that dyed for all and rose again, that knowledge of him after the spirit by which they were lead, no more to know him after the flesh, so much is plain, 2 Cor. 5.14, 15, 16. Of which more by and by, but that the knowledge of him after the spirit, as he was before the world was, is not the knowledge of him to eternal salvation, but on the contrary, the knowledge of him as sent forth and come in the flesh, is that knowledge of him that is to eternal salvation, the scriptures plainly testify while they say we preach Christ crucified to the Jew, a stumbling block, and to the gentle foolishness, but to them that are saved Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God, and the same Apostle says he desired to know nothing but Christ and him crucified, 1 Cor. 2.18, 22, 23. and 2.2. And if thou confess with thy mouth Jesus the Lord, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved, Rom. 10.9. and again, Paul tells the Corinthians that they were saved by the gospel he preached to them, if they kept it in memory how he had preached, namely that Christ dyed for our sins according to the Scriptures, and was butted and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Cor. 15.1, 2, 3, 4. And again he calls his gospel the preaching of the cross, all which plainly informs us that the knowledge of Christ that is to eternal salvation is the knowledge of him as sent of God, and come in the flesh, and not as he was before the world was, for as so he dyed not for our sins, nor was butted, nor rose again, much less were any of these things affirmable of him as he was before the world was, so as that herein they clearly discover themselves to be Antichristian according to that rule of knowing spirits given us by the Apostle; Joh. 4.2, 3. That every spirit that confesseth not( he saith not, that plainly and expressly denieth the coming of Antichrist is more deceitful then so, but that confesseth not, which as the same word often signifies, is as much as speaks not out plainly, exalts not, magnifies not) Christ come in the flesh is not of God, but is that spirit of Antichrist, and is not this a not confessing Christ come in the flesh, to make the knowledge of him as not come in the flesh,( for as he was before the world was, he was not come in the flesh) the knowledge of him to salvation: none of the Quakers before mentioned, or of their followers disowned the book, or the expression at the said meetings, but John Whitehead sought to evade it, and blind the people by telling them he knew the meaning of the spirit, that it meant as he came in the flesh too; 
Deceit and guile depart not from them.  in which was a gross insinuation that they are deceivers, and that they say one thing in their books, and mean another, and who then will go after such deceitful workers, that are not willing to perish; and then too, his impudence appeared in giving a sense and meaning of it contrary to the expression, for Christ as he was before the world was, and Christ as come in the flesh are contrary, as much as come in the flesh and not come in the flesh, for he was before the world was, he came not in the flesh, nor dyed, nor suffered, and that he is now as he was before the world was, is as much as to say, he is not the man Christ Jesus, contrary to 1 Tim. 2.5. And so denies his humanity, and so as some red that in John, doth solvere Jesum, loose the true nature of Christ; divides and destroys the humanity, yea and all the virtue and consideration of all he did in the flesh, their being none of that with him before the world was, as with respect to which God acted and effected any thing; the other Whitehead as blindly endeavoured to justify it, by alleging, 2 Cor. 5.16. Henceforth know we no man after the flesh, yet though we had known Christ after the flesh; yet hencefor●h know we him no more, to prove that the Apostles did not know him as one that came and suffered in the flesh, or to be in the flesh, but onely as in the spirit as before the world was, when by the same reason the Apostle should not have known any of the Corinths then to have or to be then in the flesh, for he says he knew no man after the flesh, as well as not Christ, as was  told him, yea and that it was that very judgement and knowledge of Christ as one that dyed for all, and was risen again, that the Apostle says, delivered them from knowing Christ after the flesh,( as was before hinted) appears, for having said, vers. 14.15. If one dyed for all, then all dyed, and that he dyed for all, &c. He adds wherefore,( as if he should say upon this ground and account&) henceforth( that is from the time we have received this judgement that one dyed for all and rose again henceforth) know we no man after the flesh, &c. As was urged upon him to his confusion, for he answered not to vindicate that his alligation, but flew from that to the 1 Job. 1.12, 3, 4. Which also speaks not of Christ as he was before the world was, but as manifest in the flesh, and seen and handled by them, nor of God as out of Christ crucified, but as in him as was made good then to him, so that in all this he shewed his gross ignorance and error, and so his unfitness to go up and down, and preach himself perfect; as also,  
5 They shewed much ignorance or wilful sophistry, in cavilling against what was said about the nature of man, as in Christ perfectly freed from sin and curse, and without spot of sin, and the same nature of man in us, even in believers, hav●ng sin in it as a natural heritage from the first Adam fallen, which while they cavil'd against, they made themselves willingly ignorant of what we mean by nature, which( as in Hebrewes 2.16. It is said the nature of Angells) signifies as spoken of mankind, the common being or essence of man, which as in Adam fallen, and in all his natural offspring is sinful and corrupt, but as the same being of man or humanity is in Christ, so though it was under sin, and law, and death, yet in the resurrection it is discharged thereof, so as in him is neither sin by imputation, much less which never was any inherency of sin, nor death for sin, but how should they not cavil against this, seeing they deny the humanity of Christ, and judge him onely a spirit, as he was before the world was, and say of themselves that they have no sin; and besides this, they shewed much impudence and falsehood in the said latter meeting; as,  
1 In not holding to what was promised us of having the liberty of our meeting and usual exercise without interruption, but would break us off by their talkativenesse, though we promised brevity therein.  
2 In wresting our words, as because it was said to George Whitehead that he should have leave presently to say his mind, the usual sense of which word, presently is anon, or after a short space, he replied presently is now, and so would hinder the finishing of our discourse, unless we would have spent our time in wrangling with him about it.  
3 In false lying, as for instance, when we said the body of Christ, or Christ is personally in heaven, and yet by faith in the believing heart, he replied that therein we are like the Papists, making him both in heaven and in the bread, which how gross a falsehood it is, who cannot see, for the Papists say he is personally and really in the bread and not by faith, for surely the bread doth not believe that he should be in it by faith, but we say he is not really and personally in believers, as he is in heaven but by faith.  
4 In obtruding Questions upon us, before they had given plain answers, or any other then equivocal or deceitful to ours, that we might not discover the deceitfulness of them.  
5 In propounding what they themselves were not willing to assert any thing about, whereas what we propounded, we did as well, or were as willing to assert our own judgments in it, as inquire theirs; they propounded a Question about the blood of Christ, where it is, because we asserted the body of Christ, flesh and bones ascended into Heaven; touching which, let it be minded that they themselves would not confess his material blood remaining, and how should they, when they believe not the remaining of his personal body, as appears by what was noted before of them, and yet would not be satisfied with our answer, that his blood was  shed or poured out for the remission of our sins, and in the virtues of it is with the Father, always remembered and minded by him, and so in and with Christ, because we could not certainly assert that his material blood that was  shed, was united again in the resurrection of his body with his raised body, because the Scripture is therein silent, mentioning flesh and bones, but never blood in it that we find, though as we  told them, if they could prove it, so we would believe them; but it was said that the virtues of a thing, and the thing itself could not be separated, which is false: for the virtues of Christs death and resurrection abide yet, though the act of his dying, and so of his resurrection or rising, is long since over and past, Phil. 3.9, 10. indeed George Fox would have been bolting out his gross corrupt conceit of Christ dying, always mentioning that 2 Cor. 4.10. but that he feared we would take him in it,( I conceive) and therefore he flew from it again, and let it fall; it was also urged by them that the blood of Christ being the foundation of our faith, it must always abide, or else our foundation abides not, and thereupon they would persuade the people that we preached a foundation of faith to them that we knew not where it was, I though they had no cause for it; this being then answered them, that the dying of Christ or his death is the foundation, or of the foundation of our faith, and yet his dying, as to the act of it, is not always in being, that is, he is not always dying; nor is the blood simply the foundation of our faith, but Christ himself by virtue of it, as it was  shed for us, and he raised from the dead, and he abides ever, and is in Heaven, which was answerfull enough, yet because we could not say positively, and prove by Scriptures more then God hath revealed,( for we  told them we answered them as far as it was revealed to us by God in the Scriptures) where the very material blood of Christ is, therefore they would bear us in hand that we preached a foundation of faith which we could not tell where it was; to show their vanity in which, let these things be minded.  
1 That it is no shane to us not to know things further then God hath revealed, as it was not for Christ, as Man, not to know the Day and hour mentioned, Mar. 13.32. namely of the end of the World, which end of the World yet he preached, Or then it was for Job to say, behold God is great, we know him not, and the number of his yeares cannot be preached, Job. 36.26. It is rather a virtue, to which we are advised not to be wise, or think, or guess above what is written; there are indeed very probable Arguments used to prove that that precious blood was reunited again with the body of Christ in the resurrection, at least they seem to have some force, as that in Scripture it is opposed to corruptible things, 1 Pet. 1.18. and that being part of the body of Christ united to the deity or Divine nature, it seems needful that it should be reunited with the body, as never from the deity divided; but then the Apostle saith, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God though to that it is answerable, that it says not Christs flesh and blood is not in Heaven: nor speaks he there of that, but of Men in this mortal state, nor says that that body which now is flesh and blood shall not, when changed, inherit the kingdom of God, but that flesh and blood cannot, and flesh and blood usually signifies the mortal body, or Man in a mortal state while his life is in his blood, and is continued by a continual nourishment and supply thereof; again that which was blood before, may be in the changed state turned into pure life and spirits, the thing or substance remaining, though not in the same form of blood; but these things being but probabilities, not plainly asserted in the Scriptures, therefore we conceive it is better not to be too positive therein, but observe the advice before mentioned, 1 Cor. 4.6. especially seeing,  
2 It is no part of the foundation of peoples faith( nor so preached at any time to them by us) to know that the material blood of Christ, which was  shed, is in the personal body of Christ, or else where, but onely to know that it was  shed for us for the remission of our sins, and that the shedding of it, and so the suffering, and death of Christ therein are so precious, and of such eternal virtue with God, that by means thereof Christ is glorified, and made Lord, and Christ a great high priest for us, in whom by virtue of that his once suffering, and offering, the sanctified are for ever perfected,( completely provided for of all things pertaining to life and godliness) so as there needs no more suffering or bloodshed for remission of sins, but by that blood, and its shedding, we may at all times have access to, and acceptance with God, and so that it is always in the eye, mind, and remembrance of God for us, as sprinkled before him, and by his spirit in the gospel declared and testified of, and so spiritually in the discoveries of it, as so  shed, and as so virtuous, sprinkled upon the mind and conscience of the believer, justifying and cleansing him from all sin; and thats it, the believer in minding it, as  shed for him, and the ends and virtues of its shedding, shall find and prove, and so shall feel it in its virtues and efficacies in his own heart and conscience, as being therein also spiritually drunk by him,( and so one of the witnesses on Earth witnessing Jesus the Christ, 1 Joh. 5.8.) though, as to the real and present existence of it, as material blood, he know nothing.  
3 That it s an evidence of these peoples craft and deceit, that in their Disputes what ever, they pretend to people, yet their design is to amuse and trouble them, and to seek to render their Teachers as Persons not to be listened to by them,( a right trick of Wolves and Foxes) and not to discover and bolt out truth, and therefore propound Questions, concerning which themselves have no faith, nor dare assert any thing, nor matter whether there be reason and equity in what they say, and demand, so they may seem to say something; which whether it be a badge of Christs Prophets and Apostles, or of Deceivers and Sophisters, let all jud●● Its a true saying that a Fool may query more in an hour then a wise Man may be able to resolve in a year; they might as well have asked where the death of Christ is, or where his rising again is, and we might have asked them when, and how the light( which they say is in every man) first enters and comes into Men, and what it first discovers in particular to every Man, and how long it shall be continued with any Man that rebels against it, and many such things: but  
4 We do not fault or condemn them for not asserting things not revealed, but for slighting and denying things revealed, and asserting contrary to what is written: as for saying some Men have no sin in them, contrary and besides to what the Scripture asserts,( the way to make them proud and presumptuous, and rejecters of Christ) and for denying what the Scripture asserts about the body of Christ, and the resurrection of Mens bodies, and about the knowledge of Christ, that is necessary to salvation, &c. now that they would have made some thing of against us, is that we cannot tell certainly what God hath not revealed; now whether of us are the worthyer to be faulted, we for not asserting above what is written, or they for asserting contrary unto, or denying what is written; Let all people judge,  
5 There were some other discoveries of them in both the said Meetings, which I shall more briefly mention; as,  
1 In that at Gedney, John Whitehead denied the Scriptures to be the Medium of faith, contrary to John. 17.20. wherein Christ prays for believers, through the Apostles words, which are contained in the Scriptures, and in Act. 17.11, 12. Its said that the Bereans searching the Scriptures daily, whether the things the Apostle Paul preached were so or no, therefore( as if he should say by means thereof) many believed; yea the Apostles preached nothing but as the Scriptures asserted, and preached Christ, and made manifest the mystery of Him by the Scriptures of the Prophets, and yet they were therein Ministers, by whom many believed, Rom. 26.26. Act. 26.22, 23, 24. 1 Cor. 3.5.  
2 He asserted that the hearing, by which faith was begotten, was the hearing of Christ in the light or word within Men, urging that that Christ is the Author of faith, though the word there signifies the prime Leader or Captain of it, {αβγδ}, Heb. 12.2.( as still denying the Preaching of the Scriptures to be the medium of faith) in which we stopped his mouth with that in Rom. 10.14. That it is said, how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard, and how shall they hear without a preacher, and how shall they( not he or it) preach except they( not he or it) be sent, as speaking of a plurality of preachers, as means of faith which cannot be affirmed or understood of Christ onely preaching in men, or the light or sand in men, for thats but one, but must be understood of outward preachers, and means of preaching the word, which are many.  
3 He said the Apostles did not bring light to men, but onely pointed to what they had before, which is evedently false, for the Apostles were not onely witnesses to the light men had before, but the light of the world too, Mat. 5.14, 15, 16. And its strange that the light should bring no light to them that before were darkness as the Gentiles were; nay its said of Paul that he was a chosen vessel to carry the name of Christ amongst the Gentiles, Act. 9.15. And sure the name of the Lord is light; nor did they preach to the Gentiles that they had light in them before their coming to them, but contrarily that they were darkness, Eph. 5.8.( not as George Whitehead at Lin perverted it had some darkness in them, but ye were darkness) and that they were in times past without God, and without Christ, Eph. 2.11, 12. So that they preached not Christ to be in men before their believing, but they preached Christ to them, that they might believe in him, and so have him in them; indeed this is a main piece of their corrupt doctrine that they preach, that all have the light of Christ in them, and that that is whatsoever reproves any sin in them to which they bid men look for all their light and teaching. So did not the Apostles, but preached Christ as one that had dyed for all, and is risen again, and is ascended and glorified with God in heaven, as without men, as the Scriptures witness particularly, Act. 2.22. Ye men of Israell hear these words: Jesus of Nazereth, a man approved of God among you, &c. They say not ye men of Israell, ye have Christ, or a light within you, look to that, and it will save you, red also and mind, vers. 30.33.36. and Chap. 3.13, 14, 15. And the 4. 10, 11, 12. and the 5.30, 31, 32. and the 10.38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43. and the 13.23, 24, 25, 26, in which 26. it is said, ye men of Israell, &c. To you is the word of this salvation sent; I pray mind, it is not said, ye men of Israell in you is the word of this salvation, before we come to you; nay the saying is was sent to them, implies that it came from without them, for who will sand a man that which he hath before in him; and sure the word of Gods salvation is light, as is clearly signified, also vers. 46, 47. Which being sent of God by the Apostles, proves that the Apostles brought light to men, contrary to John Whiteheads saying: this way of theirs then greatly swarves from the Apostles doctrine,& exposes men to follow some light of their own fire,& sparks of their own kindling,& so to follow their own spirit,( which they represent as a light candle in every man) as the false Prophets and erring people did, Isa. 50.11. Ezek. 13.3. As if that was the light of Christ which also may discover some things, and reprove for some sins, otherwise it were in no danger to cheat men, as satan doubtless as transformed into an angel of light may reprove of some sins, and press to some duties for his owns end, as to deceive men and led them into greater sins, as to trust in themselves as their own Saviours,( as Luk. 18.10, 11.) and neglect Christ as we also alleged; for why cannot he play the hypocrite himself as well as his Messengers, who are acted to it by him, 2 Cor. 11.14, 15. Math. 23.14, 15.  
4 We found also divers of that party at Gedney, and those none of the meanest of them guilty of making and facing out a notorious falsehood to uphold the fallen credit of their cause, for when to the question about the gift of God( as John Whitehead called it) to be raised in stead of the body that dies, viz. Whither it was ever dead or not, the said John had twice positively said he would not answer it; divers of them together afterward shamed not, in the hearing of the audience to affirm& contend that he had given some answer to it: of the falsehood of which( besides the contradicting of it by many then present) we since have from one of them received this intimate acknowledgement in a letter directed to us, that he says to prevent our boasting in that matter, he assays to answer the question, though ye may see how he prevaricates; for first he changeth the question, as if it had been simply; whether the gift of God be dead or living? and then gives this answer, that if we mean the gift of the spirit of God to man, it is living, where obedience is yielded to it, &c. Whereas he knew that our question was about the body to be raised; such impudence, falsehood, and folly are they guilty of, instead of greater perfection that they boast of, as even ordinary civill men would be ashamed off.  
5 George Whitehead also at Lin further manifested his corrupt mind while he brought that in Rom. 10.6, 7, 8. and Dutri. 30.12, 13, 14. The word is nigh thee even in thy heart, and in thy mouth, &c. As deriding at mens saith in the death and bloodshed of Christ beyond-sea, and at Jerusalem; as if that was not a good foundation of faith, or in it, but as if the dying and rising of Christ is something in men; refusing to red on, and take notice of what the Apostle says that word is, namely the word which the Apostles preached, which as a word of faith is in the believers heart, where the righteousness of faith is, and as preached or confessed, is in his mouth; and therein the saying of Moses fulfiled; and this he saith is the word, that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus the Lord, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved; he says not if thou shalt believe that Christ is raised in thy heart, as if the death and resurrection of Christ, which the Apostles preached, was in the mystery the dying of some seed or principle in men by their corruptions oppressing it, and then rising again above them; for that is not, not a matter to believed but felt rather, nor is such a dying of Christ for the benefit, but for the hurt of men: and the dying of corruption and prevalency of grace where it is in truth, is not Christs resurrection, but is included in the saving, asserted as the fruit, and consequence of mens believing with the heart that Christ is raised; in this therefore he manifested his gross corruption.  
6 The said George Whitehead, and George Fox propunded another question, after which our meeting concluded: namely, whither the light that lighteth every man be a natural or a spiritual light, to which we gave this answer, that that light is Christ; no natural but a spiritual man and light, but he giveth to men both natural and spiritual light, and so the light with which he lighteth men is both natural and spiritual, that is to say( as we also explained ourselves) all good, both natural and spiritual we have from and by means of him as he dyed for us, and is risen again; light in the scripture signifying both good, as opposed to distress and evil, called darkness,( see Est. 8.16. Isa. 8.22. and the 45.7. and the 50.10) and also the knowledge of God and his truth enlightening the understanding, as Acts 26.18. Psal. 109.105, 130. Of both which we asserted him the Author, as included in his lighting men; an answer full and faire beyond exception, yet they using nothing but craft and subtlety, instead of simplicity would have had us to have said that some particular stream of light was both natural and spiritual, though they could not drive us thereto by all their wrangling; but they themselves manifested their decit further in saying that men have some light, seed or principle in them before the word is sown in their hearts( Mat. 13.19.) to make them capable of receiving it when sown;( agreeing herein with them that say some of the relics of Gods divine Image were left in men at the fall) against which we proved that the light and word sent, doth as well bring capacity( through the spirit) to receive it, as it is the thing to be received; as well opens the eye to see, which before was blind and incapable of seeing, as brings light to it to be seen by it, and turns it to it that it may see it: that man indeed hath naturally, as a man a spirit, mind, and conscience, capable of being enlightened, and therefore called the candle of the Lord, Prov. 20.27. But that naturally it is as a candle out, or unlighted, or without capacity to light itself, but must be lighted of the Lord before it have any true light in it, Psal. 18.28. We  told them also that though Christ is a witness or testimony in the light and influences of his spirit to all men in due time, 1 Tim. 2.5, 6. Yet for so much as all men receive not him and his light, therefore all men have not his light in them, as Isa. 8.20. They that speak not according to this word,( of the Law and testimony) it is because there is no light in them, here George Whitehead showing himself a scholar replied, that he had red it in the latin, non est lux matutina in in, that the word signifies no morning light( though I fear he belied some priests in saying, he had heard some of them say that the latin was one of the originals) indeed the word in the Hebrew, is {αβγδ} and follies a light out of, and mixed with, yet expelling darkness, and so sometimes is used to signify the morning, because there is some darkness accompanying it, which yet by the light of it is expelled; but then as we minded him, Christ is called the morning star, Rev. 22.16. And the {αβγδ}, the day spring or rising, Luk. 1.78. So that if there be no morning light in man, there is none of his light who is the morning light; it was said, there might be some evening light in them, but not proved, and we might ask what light the evening hath different from what shone in the morning, that may be likened to the light of Christ? onely the light is going away in the evening, and then comes darkness: but George Whitehead denied that the light of Christ is ever wholly taken away from any man, though they tell Mr. Townsend in a railing book against him, that the light was wholly departed from him, and that it may be so from some, we shewed in those that are given upto a reprobate mind, or a mind void of judgement, Rom. 1 〈◇〉 2, 28. The said George asserted further that the light is some mens condemnation, whereas Christ saith this is the condemnation that light is come into the world, and men love darkness rather then light, and not that the light is or shall be their condemnation, but condemner rather; yet that last saying of his may in some sense be asserted, as the occasion of a thing sometimes in the scripture language is put for, and called by the name of the thing occasioned by it, but in all the rest let the Reader judge whether these people called Quakers be not a dangerous people full of wickedness and deceit, men of corrupt minds, and such as the Apostles wills us to account accursed, Gal. 1.8, 9. Because speaking and preaching otherwise then they have preached, exalting that under the name of Christ, even the light in every mans conscience, which they never so exalted, and in the mean time secretly and dangerously corrupting men from Christ, and from the faith and knowledge of him, which is the knowledge of him to salvation, dictating another that is not, nor ever was in the stead thereof.  
We might have here added a further demonstration of their deceits and delusions out of James Naylors Book, called Love to the lost, in the Chapter about Redemption, where he discovers more fully the mystery of their deceit; both in telling us the seed to which the promise was made, and which few know, is a certain seed or principle in Man, desiring to follow after God, and to be free from sin, when as the Apostle plainly tells us, Gal. 3.6, 18. that the seed to which the promise is made is Christ, and so he confounds the Redeemer, and thing to be redeemed; for the thing to be redeemed is clearly in Scripture Man-kind, not some seed or principle in Man, but Men themselves, bodies and spirits, Psal. 31.5. thou hast redeemed it; my spirit, Rom. 8.23. with Phil. 3.21. we wait for the Adoption, the Redemption of our Body, and Christ gave himself a ransom or price of Redemption( not for some good seed or principle in Men, desiring after freedom to serve God; but) for all Men, and in due time dyed for the ungodly; but by James Naylor the same seed that cries after Redemption, we are also to look for, and receive all our wisdom and strength from; and in the same Chapter a little after, that is the seed of Abraham, ●f which Christ 〈…〉 according to the flesh, so that there we have his mystery of Christ coming in the flesh; namely his or the lights taking upon it, or joining itself with that seed or principle in Men that desires freedom from sin: so that herein is a false Christ preached by the false Prophets, instead of Christs being made flesh of a Woman, and under the Law, and dying for all Men in that body of flesh, his own proper body in which he bare our sins; but I shall add no more, only desire people to beware of them, as a heavy judgement of God, that he hath ordered to us, to punish us for our neglect of Christ, the salvation of God, and the truth of him so long abused by us, and indeed the cause of their prevalency is partly in the Teachers, and partly in the people.  
( 1) Too many of the Teachers are such as Isaiah speaks of, in Isa. 56.10, 11, 12. his Watchmen( that should watch for the good of men) are( too generally) blind,( the vision of all, the preaching of the cross of Christ is a sealed Book to them)( they are ignorant, they are dumb Dogs that cannot bark,( to give warning of these Beasts, or set themselves to discover and detect them) sleeping( in their security) and lying down loving to slumber,( to take their ease and peace, and to content themselves with dreams, in stead of searching out of truth, and giving it forth to the people.) yea they are Dogs strong of appetite, greedy Dogs,( hunting after Livings, and Maintenance, more means) and( so) never have enough, too many of them; Sheapheards that cannot understand, they all look to their own way, every one for his gain from his Quarter,( that is, are more mindful of the Fleece then the Flock) and many of them given to voluptuousness, come and I will fetch wine, &c. for this cause, and by this means all the Beasts of the field come to devour even all the Beasts of the Forrests, even Foxes, and Wolves, and Leopards, &c. The Lord help us to search and try our ways, and see how much we( any of us) have contributed to the overflowing flood of this ungodliness, surely some Mens principles, that would be counted Orthodox, give and have given them great advantage.  
1 Their saying Men have in them( though fallen) some relics of Gods divine image left in them, with which agrees their seed and principle in every Man.  
2 Their speaking of faith as wrought by some immediate power, as besides the word preached, and as it were to be brought to the word, which truly agrees with these in the heart of it, in excluding the Scriptures or word preached from being the means of faith, for denying Christs death for, and Gods love to all, as the gospel asserts; in opening and evidencing of which God's spirit works to beget faith, they put Men upon seeking faith as a distinct thing to be some other way wrought, and as that by which they may know Christ dyed for them, though they exclude not the Scriptures herein so broadly as these Men do.  
3 Their denying the Scriptures to signify( even in the main things of our faith) as they import, but that they must have another sense, now come these Men and give a mystical sense upon Christs Person, death, resurrection, &c. and why may not the Scriptures in these things signify otherwise then they speak, as well as in those that speak of Gods good will to, and Christs death for men?  
4 Their broad denials of the Scripture sayings, as that Christ dyed for all, and is the light that lighteth every man, &c. gives great advantage against them.  
5 Many of them have been, and are seeking to bottom themselves and others upon some internal operations, and looking to have the ground of their faith in some thing within themselves, too much slighting, and making little of the living upon Christ, as in himself, and by the faith of him that loved them, and gave himself for them, and so have been a great cause of driving Men from Christ into themselves, to seek a Christ in themselves, or some thing in the place him, to the losing Christ, as to the true knowledge and faith of him out of their hearts, that is out of their faith and affections.  
6 And lastly, many by their vein of allegorising, and turning Scripture sayings into conceits, have opened the gap to those mystical deceits and spiritual wickednesses in Heavenly things. But beside this the too general ignorance, sloth, covetousness, pride found in too many Ministers, gives advantage to them, even like Foxes and Wolves to declaim against the vigilant Sheapheards too, as if all were but hirelings, and so that the Flock ought rather to be trust themselves with them; but it is good for people to mind.  
1 That all are not hirelings that take hire, witness Zecha. 11.12. 2 Cor. 11.8. but they that make that the end of their Preaching, and prefer it before the good of the Flock; and therefore leave them to the wolf when they see him come, as our Saviour saith, John 10.12. the Laborour is worthy of his hire, and they are enemies to Christ and his gospel that would hinder them thereof, Luk. 10.7.1 Tim. 5.17, 18.  
2 That it s safer for the sheep to abide with their hirelings( if their shepherds be such) then to leave them to go to Foxes and Wolves that come to devour them; who are known not by their fair pretences and walkings which they seem to have,( for they are but the sheeps clothing) but by their doctrines and the issues of them, the spoiling men of their faith in the true Christ, and of the hope of the glory and kingdom promised, and drawing them to seek their rejoicing in themselves and not in Christ; Christ faults indeed the Hirelings for leaving the sheep to the wolves, but never wills his sheep to leave the hirelings, if they will but keep to them and feed them in the pastures of Israell, however not to leave them to go to the wolves: but,  
( 2) The people are too generally guilty too, and lay themselves open to these Deluders and delusions, because too generally—  
They neglect Christ and his truth, take no pleasure therein, see not enough in Christ crucified to content them; not searching for the knowledge of him that they might find content in him: nor do they yield up themselves to walk in what they know or are taught concerning him, but rather in slothfullnesse, formality, covetousness, pride and vanity in apparel, and in many other things, by which means they are in danger to perish, whether they keep out of the snares of these men, or fall into them; howbeit they are exposed to their snares hereby; because,  
1 They hereby provoke the Lord to punish their neglect and contempt of Christ and his heavenly doctrine, by sending false Christs, and false Prophets, and doctrines among them: according as the Apostle predicted; that because Men receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved, God would sand them strong delusions that they might believe a ly, that they might all be damned who have not pleasure in the truth, but in unrighteousness, 2 Thess. 2.9, 10, 11, 12. and besides,  
2 They afford the Deceivers matter to work upon, while satan transformed into an angel of light, and his Messengers as Ministers of righteousness can find many faults in them, many things to accuse them of;( though some things that God never charged them with, as forgiving civill respect to Men, and saying you to a single person, &c. Which I dare appeal to Men generally, that no light that they had in their consciences before these Men came and set themselves Masters, there did circumcise, cut or regulate them too, but in many things really evil; they have too great advantage) and Mens consciences by that effect of the Law in them( which is not Christ, Rom. 7.7. and the 2.15. with 8.3.) bearing witness that they say true in those things that they fault them in, they are easily persuaded to believe them in all things else and so follow them to ruin; and the rather because,  
3 They to get a party,( as the Jesuits do) exposing themselves to some abuses and sufferings from the ruder people, they therein also by their incivility strengthen them, and make them seem more like Christs Ministers, to the simplo people that judge by the outward appearance, and not by bringing them and their doctrines to the law and testimony the Apostles doctrine; which also.  
4 Through either their own carelessness and formality, or also through their Teachers, they are not so instructed in, as to be able to examine and discern them in the light thereof; and so not having on them the armor of God for their defence against them, they are easily overcome and lead captive by them; this also furthering them therein; that,  
5 Through their carelessness and weakness therethrough, in their understanding of the things of God, not finding satisfaction in Christ, through their ignorance of him, they have an itching ear after novalties, and retain divers lusts to know what is in every spirit, and to be approved of by all that pretend to godliness, 2 Tim. 3.6, 7. and 4.4.  
6 And conceiting themselves to know, and to be able to judge and discern of spirits, and to stand against what is erroneous, they neglect the helpfulness and gifts of brethren, where they are going on in a right way,( and such especially the foolish woman or false spirit hath a design upon, as is to be seen, Prov. 9.15.) as also the advice of their Teachers and instructors that have the oversight of them, and spoken to them the word of the Lord, and so ventering upon their own judgement and strength, they are often caught and taken, and at the best come off with that lamentation, Prov. 5.11, 12, 13, 14. How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproofs? and have not obeied the voice of my Teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me, &c.  
Oh that all; both Ministers and people, would yet be awakened to search and try our ways, and make straighter steps to our goings, crying to God to be delivered from such evil and unreasonable men, 2 Thess. 3.1, 2. Psal. 12. And so we shall conclude this discovery and warning, with that in 2 Joh. 6.7, 8, 9, 10. This is the commandement, that as ye have heard from the beginning ( of the world, of the seed of the woman bruising the Serpents head, or from the beginning of the preaching of the gospel by the Apostles, in the first things of which are how Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, &c. 1 Cor. 15.1, 2, 3, 4.) So ye should walk in it; for many deceivers are entred into the world, who confess not( that is speak not out or magnify) Jesus Christ come in the flesh, this is a Deceiver and an Antichrist; look to yourselves, &c. Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God; He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, hath both the Father and the Son.  
If there come any unto you,( you have no warrant to go and seek them up) and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed, for he that biddeth him God speed, is partaker of his evil deeds.  
September, 19. J.H. T.M.  
FINIS.   

ERRATA.  
page. 2. line 5. for 1 Joh. 5. r. 3. l. 25. for Tim. 1. 16. r. 1 Tim. 1. 15 p. 4. l. 37. for it r. as p. 6. l. 17. for another r. another l. 34. deal of the Quakers so called p. 7. l. 19. for knowledges r. knowledge l. 18. for are r. is p. 8. l. 17. for Joh. 4. r. 1 Joh. 4. l. 37. after for ad as p. 9. l. 11. for and r. yea, for had r. have l. 28. for. 12. r. 1. 2. p. 13. l. 25. for as to the real and present existence of it. r. as to the place of the present real existence of it, p. 15. l. 6. for red. r. seed. l. 33. for the r. ye p. 17. l. 25. deal not. p. 20. l. 3. for last. l. 3. lost.   

POST-SCRIPT.  
page. 12. line 35. Let this be added, But these being but probabilities at the most, and on the other side the Scriptures speaking of his Resurrection mentioning always( as to his body) onely that which was butted, and laid in the Sepulchre without any mention of his blood; as, it was his body buried in the Sepulchre after his blood was  shed that the Women went to an●int, and of which the Angels said, he is risen, he is not here; we never red that they went to see what was become of his blood that was  shed, Mark. 16.1.6. Luk. 24. 1-6. Joh. 20.1.2.3.13. Nor do the Apostles afterward in any of their Discourses about the Resurrection speak of any thing but that which was buried, and his soul not left in Hell, as is to be seen, Act. 2.23.24.31.32.& 10.39.40.& 13.29.30 1 Cor. 15.4. no mention of his blood reunited; Yea our Saviour himself mentioning in his raised body flesh, and bones( that which was buried in the Sepulchre) without menti●n of his blood, Luk. 24.39. and that his side where he was pierced, and out of which there came out blood and water was open or unclosed after his Resurrection, as appears in that he said to Thomas, reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side, Joh. 19.34.& 20.27. As also the Apostle implying plainly that the raised body in the Resurrection shall not be flesh and blood, though the same that now is so: 1 Cor: 15.50. Therefore we dare not be t●o positive in asserting( nor think it a shane to us not to know) above what it hath pleased the Holy Ghost by his Apostles to reveal& declare, but conceive it safer to take the advice, 1 Cor. 4.6. especially seeing 2.