PUBLIQUE baths PVRGED. OR, A REPLY to Dr CHAMBERLAIN his VINDICATION of public Artificial baths, From the pretended Objections and Scandals obtruded on them. Printed in the Year, 1648. public baths Purged, &c. SOme men have such an itch to quarrel, that rather then they will want objects, they will fight with their own shadows, or make to themselves enemies of straw, that they may tear them to pieces, and triumph in their ruin. This doth Doctor Chamberlain in his late Vindication of public baths: Because he cannot procure all the Fellowes of his Society, all the Physitians in the kingdom, jurare in verba, and give a blind approbation of his concealed projects, he forgeth Objections as from Them upon his own Anvil, and blows them away as boyes do bubbles of soap. Jactat& impositas taurus in astra pilas. There is good counsel in the Proverbs in such a case, and I think the Fellowes of the college well take that. But a man whom he reckoneth in an inferior Classis, may exchange a pass or two with him, therefore first to his Preface. His Preface runs thus: If Salus populi be Suprema lex, &c. REPLY. Salus populi is cried with the fullest mouth sometimes where the Heart is onely set upon its own Advantage. And he that considers D. Chamberlain his former attempts, his late confession in another Pamphlet, that He with his Wife are reduced to their first principles, besides nine children into the bargain, his craving expressions of merit, allowance, &c. may have leave to suspect him. Next, he presents his baths like a Queen, qualified with cleanliness, nimbleness, pleasure, strength and stature, which certainly a handsome Dairy-maid or kitchenwench may challenge; but how fitly his baths can we shall in some part discover. To pass by his ignorant definition of a Doctor, and grant Paracelsus to be a Doctor-maker: It is allowed that those Authors and many more too, writ in commendation of baths, and many uses and excellencies of them might be added to his Catalogue. But what is that to his baths? These Authors writ in general of the benefit of all baths, whether natural, of mineral, Fountain, River, or Sea waters. Or artificial of public, Private, total, partial, could, Hot, &c. And is that faire play to appropriate unto his particular baths what they writ indefinitely of any, or more particularly of Private? Besides, There is no kind of medicine, vomiting, Purging, Exercise, &c. but by due application, to prepared bodies, in seasonable times, may be as effectual in as many diseases. You may hear as great a bed-role of the virtues of Tobacco, and many particular medicines. It must be far therefore from any physician to disallow the use of Bathing. That may be done, and all these effects attained thereby, and is daily without Dr. Chamberlain. Farther, the Doctor may remember, that his own Authors suggest almost as many dangers, in the use of baths, as benefits, if made use of by some persons, Plethoricall, Cacoclymicall, or such as have any great defect in any principal part. Improperly, as to the time as well as the subject. Immoderately in any. Hip: compendiously tells you, that hot baths beget {αβγδ}. Luxitie of the flesh, weakness of the nerv●s, dullness of the understanding, bleedings, soundings, death itself. He speaks as much of could, and yet less then the truth. All which in most men are prevented in the use of private, because they seldom apply themselves to that remedy without prescription. The Sentences are trivial that follow, and his place of Scripture alleged to no purpose. Tis not an honour to hear ill, unless the cause be just for which he suffers: and the Doctor begs the Question at beginning. The Midwives say that they have answered what ever he hath objected, even his voice of Rama. Some of the Fellowes( I think whom he meaneth) deny that it is their custom to traduce any man. If it were granted that they made these Objections, it is not to speak evil of a man, to differ from him in judgement. Diversum sentire duos de rebus iisdem. Salva semper licuit amicitia: Especially where the controversy is between men of any civility. His Objections and Answers. These lie in a strange method, but we will follow his wild-goose-chase, and first propose them, then his Answers, after Reply upon them. And though they are his own brats,( if not altogether, Sir, yet Dum malè tu recites) give them protection against his unkind usage. 1. Ob. The first Objection is, This Country is too could. Ans. 1. To this he answereth, 1. Germany, Poland, Muscovie, are colder, but they use them winter and summer. Reply 1. To which it is replied, 1. That those Countries are colder in some parts of them( though it be true of neither in general) in winter indeed, but hotter in summer, the Sun being conversant so long upon their horizon, that there is but little night. 2. They use no public artificial baths in Germany, or Poland,( and I think neither in Muscovie.) In all those Countries, private baths and Bathe-stones( such as ours in England, or not much different) are much in use: So tubs of Snow at their Inne-doores to rub their guests withall, lest being frozen in any part, they should forfeit that in the heat of their Stoves. That remedy otherwise onely prevents it. But what is that to public Artificial baths? We have enough such( perhaps too many) as the former, or may have. 3. The generality of people who inhabit those Countries, and make use of those baths in winter, keep within their warm Stoves all that time of the year: and though they use the baths aforesaid, and open their Pores thereby, yet are not endangered, as we must be in England. Answ. 2. Italy and Greece are colder in Winter, then we in Summer; let us have them in Summer. Reply 1. Those, who have spent more time then you in Italy, know of no public Artificial baths there. 2. No man opposeth your desire, but only propose whether they may not be of greater prejudice then benefit; and desire they may be regulated, and not exclusive of others, lest we change a certain benefit for what we know not; or like Aesop's dog, catch at a shadow whiles we lose a real substance: 'tis this onely hath caused all this dust. 3. We have already to serve our turn,( if he mean other baths) though not so magnificent, nor public as Chamberlain pretends unto. Answ. 3. They are a remedy against could. Rep. 1. They heat indeed for the present, but are no remedy for cold; they are like a false friend, that persuades to open the door, that he may enter with an Enemy. The pores are so dilated, and the habit so rarefied thereby, that men are more obnoxious thereunto. Arist.( if the Doctor hath not skipped over his works in reading) besides others tells him so: Experience teaches us, that none are so chill and apt to take could as those who sit most by the fire side. Every guide at Bath, would think that physician mad, who should sand a Patient thither at Christmas for a cure of could. Answ. 4. If experience approve them not, none will frequent them. Rep. 1. That holds not always true; some sort of men will not be prescribed in their pleasures by other mens, nay, their own sad experience: we find none so ready to venture again, as those who have been bitten in a whore-house. 2. You should know who writes {αβγδ} Experience may be bought too dear, when health or life is the price; and our Patriots and Publisk men ought to be Promethei, not Epimethei. Those who have eyes in their fore-head, not behind. 2. Objection. There are other baths, and particularly Doctor Grent's. Answ. 1. Doctor Grent hath done somewhat indeed, but the Common-wealth is not sensible of the benefit, and he himself hath quit the inconvenience, charge and trouble of them, and when be pleaseth, may adventure a second loss, or more safely be an adventurer in mine. Rep. 1. 'tis well you will allow Doctor Grent something, we thought you had the whole monopoly of skill in this; he is beholding to you, and they say, may make dignum patinâ operculum. But, withall, you may know Doctor Grent had a rarer invention in the forge, and that which was imitative of natural baths, both for the nature of the Waters, and manner of Eruption: Yet he found not the Common-wealth so capable of a farther benefit, as to venture on their charge himself, or involve others in the hazard. 2. You make a kind offer to him, and have done to many more: If you could engage them, I believe they must run more hazard then yourself. Answ. 2. Let every man enjoy what he hath, but not hinder what he hath not. Rep. 1. 'tis well you do allow that: The Ordinance which you did procure, did impropriate all unto yourself. 2. That was not to hinder what is not, to desire there might be provision against the inconveniences which might ensue. Object. 3. Other Doctors have them. Answ. 1. Why have they not been so zealous to serve the Common-wealth with them as I? They cannot deny them to be good: That were to contradict their Masters, they will not confess, they fear diminution of gain, that were to obtrude a strange maxim on the state: That sickness must be provided for Physitians. Rep. 1. Some have done their parts, you aclowledge Doctor Grent hath something. 2. Every man is not of a like activity: Greculus esuriens in coelum jusseris ibit. 3. The benefit of the Common-wealth is the cry of some, who intend their own, and have like Aristotles man, their own representation in their eye, between that, and every Object. 4. If his zeal were so great, why did he first impart his invention to a foreign Nation, before he once offered it to us? Why doth he not make tender of it to another, unto which he owes his extraction? 5. When we see the benefit that will emerge unto the Common-wealth, by his, we shall aclowledge our Error. And yet many are not satisfied, that it will be a benefit; or if one, whether so great as may balance the mischief. Though they may allow baths of good use, and daily prescribe them, whether public baths will not be like a skittish beast, that gives a good soap of milk, and kicketh down the pail? 6. Lastly it cannot be fear of diminution of their gain; for you have offered your golden Mountaines to some, if not all, and offered to make it appear a great advantage: If that were their aim, they would suggest no caution against you, for 'tis the common opinion of them, that yours will cut out more work for them. Answ. 2. If they mean Bathing tubs, I contend not with them to debar their inconvenient privilege, or compel them to this better accommodation: Yet I prescribed the use of them by M. Philips, and M. Kellet, in little less then desperate diseases before any, but seven that are now fellowes of the college were Doctors, and have appointed not a few, since my coming over in consultations, and they have been made more use of since my proposal, then in any seven yeares before. Rep. 1. Inconvenience and privilege are scarce consistent; yet if so, he needed not so contemptously despise now, what had done him former service. 2. If he prescribed them so long since, it was a sign he had much favour to be admitted so young, or that he is so much older then others; and that is but a poor pride, though in that( it is said) he stretches his leather beyond his last, 3. If he did appoint them in little less then desperate dieases, it is a good argument that Tubs, and private baths were of excellent use; we cannot learn that his Holland baths are guilty of such great cures, Quicquid verum est opportet ex omni parte consentire. 4. That others should prescribe so many since his proposal, and as he after writes, in probability enlightened and provoked by his pattern; is but like the fly which sate upon the Chariot wheel in the olympic games, and would be thought the Author of all that noise and dust. Answ. 3. They say they know them, meaning mine, why then would they take no cognizance of them till the other day, notwithstanding the KING's grant to Sir Henry Vane ten yeares ago, my Outroy in Holland, my Petitions in Print, mention to some of them, the diurnal, and two Letters from the Committee? Rep. 1. If they did know them in general, what was that to particular distinct knowledge of them? without that, they were not able to give a satisfactory account unto the Committee concerning them; ad pauca respiciat qui de facile pronunciat. Either the Doctor put a trick upon the Honourable Committee, when he pretended, before them, that it would be his prejudice to reveal himself to the college, and must discover his mystery; or he doth allege this to no purpose. 2. In the muster of his Authors, by which his intention was divulged he forgets Elencticus, 3. In particular, as yet few knew of any such concession to Sir H. Vane. It would transport the Doctor to hear it in public, what I do of his Outroy. There are but few Doctors stoop at such flies as his Petition, or take notice of what all Diurnals intimate, they should have good leisure to take all such things into consideration. Answ. 4. How long have they known them? If long, they have been uncharitable; if of late, they have been ignorant, until enlightened by my Proposition, &c. This was replied unto under his 1. and 2. Ans. to the 3. Ob. Answer 5. If the heart-burning be against me,( though treasure should not be refused from a turk) and my long experience, study and expense in them might answer their comparisons: I had rather lay down all my merit at the feet of the P. &c. Rep. 1. I know no mans heart burns against you; divers pitty you to see you run so desperately upon a rock. 2. It is sub judice, whether your baths are a benefit. 3. You have few good neighbours, that you are put to boast of your own experience, study, or merit. 4. Object. This will be a monopoly. Ans. 1.& 2. Can there be a monopoly of what is not? or where every man is left at liberty to use what he hath,& refuse what he hath not? Rep. You aclowledge that there are baths in the kingdom already, yet your Ordinance was so general and exclusive, that all kind of baths were thereby impropriated unto your benefit, and scarce liberty allowed for any one to wash his feet without your approbation. If you are convinced so far, that repentance will be accepted. Ans. 3.& 4. Or where no sweat of any mans brow is exacted without hire, no poor mans face ground, nor his bread engrossed, but rather new employments and provision for them. 2. public works are different from Monopolies, and not capable of that Ordinance. Reply. No monopoly was ever erected, but pretended so much. All of them arrogate the inscription of public Benefit. 5. Object. They are no new invention. Answ. 1. In Solomons time there was nothing new under the Sun, no question but trees floted upon the water before Noahs ark, nor was there any new thing created for the art of Guns, Printing, Load-stones. The water from Ware is called The new River. The very grievance is, that baths having been anciently of admirable use and efficacy for the good of mankind, they are yet to be sought out and studied in England. Rep. 1. You have been often told, that though public baths are not in use in England, Private are, whereby all necessary ends of Bathing may be accomplished, and when these may serve, frustra fit plura. 2. If such baths were public, it is a Question whether, nay a certainty, that by the promiscuous resort unto them, the precipitate and unadvised use of them, which custom, wantonness, and opportunities may attempt unto, will beget more diseases in this kingdom, then they can prevent or cure. Answ. 2. If not now, where are any? Reply. public natural in Sommerset-shire, Private, artificial, satisfactory for all intentions, are, or may be erected every where. Answ. 3. public artificial baths, with their Archetecture, Order, use, safety, withsome of the ingredients and manner of decoction with their cistern, Water-worke, Hamaccous, are so very new, that they are not understood by many, when mentioned, nor the truth believed when affirmed. Rep. 1. public baths in that pompous dress, are not vulgarly known indeed, nor is it much material, so all Effects which can be produced by those, are attainable by private already practised, Hamacco beds, Hammacco chairs, Hammacco couches in that canting phrase, were not understood by so many, as the Balnea Peusilia, conveyance of Patients in baths by sheets, &c. which( if they were of so much benefit as is pretended) were easily made use of in every private Stove, or Bathing-house. 2. There is no form of physic; take but Decoctions, or Bistilled waters, but may pretend to as much Pomp, and with as good reason to a Patent: Decoctions being made upon open fire, or in Balneo, in close or open Vessels, of various shapes, and matters of divers Ingredients, some not in use perhaps, to be put in several orders, sometimes Infusions, to be premised, &c. Destilled waters require more Preparation and Diversity of Instruments and Matter. In Vomits or Purges, the like may be pretended: Suppose one hath a Project to revive the use of Hellebor,( which was of old, almost the onely physic, and tis hardly now given) and make Haranges of the various preparation thereof, in Substance or Infusion, Extraction, or some rare Correction which was never thought of; or another should find out that Art for which Antimony hath been crucified a hundred ways to determine it to work by the Belly; Were it reasonall that these several pretenders should obtain an Ordinance to invest them with the sole power of making Decoctions, Waters, Purges, Vomits, &c. Magna otia coelis; The Parliament had need have good leisure, and might, upon as good ground be troubled for them. I could say more for a Circus, Pulestra, or Amphitheatre, where Exercises were used, and for the convenience of which, baths were built, and subservient. 6. Object. They may be occasions of Sin. Answ. 1. We may, by the same reason pluck down Churches, Anathematize public meetings, where men and women appear in the best clothes, and choicest dress that can possibly tempt the eye, &c. who can answer for the baths in Sommerset-shire, Inns and Taverns, &c. Rep. 1. They not onely may be, but where ever they have had any place have been. I shall not need to tell the stories of the Ancient baths which every book almost is full of: whither the chastest Matron could hardly repair, but was corrupted, Penelope venit, abit, Helena. I shall onely instance in the Bannias or baths of turkey,( which Doctor Chamberlain proposeth for our Pattern.) Much unnarall lust is said to be committed in the cells and retirements which belong unto them; yea, women with women, a thing incredible, if former times had not given detection and Punishment of it. So saith M. Sands in his travel, to whom the Doctor directs us: Yet we know with what severity the Turks observe their wives. 2. His consequence doth not follow. Churches are in Possession already, cannot be pulled down without charge,( though the Doctor is said to have pleaded for it.) Those or Meeting places, Taverns, inns are necessary; neither of which can be said of public baths. The baths of Sommerset-shire are overseen by Officers which are Sworn to that purpose; and for the most part are severe in their duty: Yet that place, notwithstanding all the care that is possible, hath been thought a great occasion of sin. Answ. 2. public places are not fit for wantonness as private are. Rep. 1. The Objection probably, was not meant of the Act in public, but the Rise or Projection of it, and the Colour for it; to which, if an accidental cast of an eye at a greater distance of David upon Uriahs wife, or the Elders upon Susanna were an incentive. Much more it may at so hear a conversation as will be, or is possible in his public. baths. 2. There will be private recesses, and places of retirement, where such acts may be accomplished. 3. They must very lascivious, who will attempt any such thing in a Box, or a Tub, or a Cradle, &c. I have heard a Scotch man tell such an Act was once done in the bore of a gun, which they call great Meg, in the Castle of edinburgh by a couple. But that an Englishman, under a prescription of his health, and the cure for an infirmity( for which those are, if not altogether, yet most graciously used) should use such an incommodious, if not impossible place to such a purpose, can hardly be admitted by a rational man. Indeed Stoves are capable of that inconvenience, and perhaps, though necessary, sometimes misemployed. Answ. 3. Men and Women shall have places, times and attendance apart. Rep. 1. Those are good Cautions, but how shall we be sure of it from you? 2. These cautions are observed in turkey, and were sometimes so in the Roman and Greek baths. Yet you red but a little before, how little that doth avail in the Bannius, but occasion a more unnatural and horrid uncleanness. 3. Quis custodiet custodes. Answ. 4. Abuse ought to disannul the use of good things. Rep. Yes, where the Abuse is greater then the use, or is unseparable; and that hath been the Doctrine and practise of these times. It is conceived there will be little or no use of them above the Private. 3. It might bear some colour if his baths were built already to keep them up. Object. 7. They are good for the Pox. Answ. 1. Though baths were good for nothing else, should the world be infected for want of them? The Chastest bed is not always exempt by accidental conversations, bad deliveries or child-bed. Rep. 1. No such necessity or danger without. 2. The public artificial baths are like rather to propagate the infection, and spread the disease, Unius scubies totum corrumpet ovile; The whole company may contract it from one man in such a place. 3. Bad delivery or Child-bed may actuate lurking Seminary, and a contracted infection, but never give the disease, unless the hands of some uncleanly Mid-wife, which hath lately been employed in the service of some person that lies under a strong infection, do concur. Answ. 2. Though they there fit Cure for that disease, ought they to be prohibited in all, why do they give bags of guajacum sarsa. Rep. bags of guajacum sursa, &c. cannot infect where the disease is already; these baths may, by the mixture of other company, nay, if they have been lately used by such persons. Answ. Physitians cannot allow water baths as fit Indications of Cure. Rep. 1. It was never heard before, that baths, or any materia medicinae were entitled Indications; the Doctor dwelled not long upon his Institutions, or hath forgot them. 2. By his leave they may be indicata, especially Bath stoves, which his Patent includes. 3. The force of the objection lies not in that, baths are effectual against the Pox; but that being, or at least thought so, persons who are infected, will thrust into them, and infect others, that that have recourse unto them. Answ. 4. Good remedies they are to prevent, but not to cure it, the reason perhaps, that the disease was so unknown to the Ancients, or so little to the Turkes or Muscovites, notwithstanding their luxury. Rep. 1. You grant that Bath stoves may, 2. that is not much material whether they are or no. If they be thought so; Infected persons will repair thither. 3. They may prevent it as any lotion or washing may with common water, but not so well, for certainly the more the body is dilated, the more receptive it must needs be rendered. 4. Some learned Authors think the Pox was not altogether unknown unto the Ancients: yet if it were how come the English, the Spanish, the French, the Dutch, &c. to partake in that privilege, who never knew the use of public artificial baths? The Doctor commends it in prevention of the sickness too,( and surely with as much reason as of the Pox,) why doth it not now do the same in turkey where the Plague rageth annually, and in more violence then is known in other places where no baths are used? For turkey and Muscovie, as to the Pox, I know no such immunity that they have. The disease rages in either Country, If it do not so much; there may be other accounts given of that, as Circumcision in that Nation( which more then one Author avow to be enjoined among them more for policy then Religion.) In this, and that, their unnatural and fandus concubitus cum viris& bestiis, whence such infection is not so communicable. Answ. 5. The Keepers will not so disparaged the house, displease their Customers, and hazard their profit. Rep. 1. Must your Keepers search all incommers? If they do; they had need have your help, the disease is not so obvious to every eye sometimes. 2. If there be no greater restraint then the loss of custom and gain, it is sufficiently known to the Country. It will be a great attractive of one and an advantage in the other. Answ. 6. Patients will not seek to public places for Remedy, if they can have it else where, therefore it is an argument against private or bawdy house baths, &c. Rep. 1. Yes they will come to such places to choose. That will be concealed best in a crowd, the persons will be least suspected to come to places of resort. 2. The disease is not always visible, that they need to fear discovery in company. His Objections and Answers have been winnowed, we come to his Epilogue. His Epilogue or Conclusion. TO Conclude, the design of baths is Honourable, useful, necessary. Honourable in being the praise and subject of 30. learned Physitians. and 50. other famous Authors, in being the work of many great Princes and Emperours, the grand signior, and great B. of Muscovie not being ashamed to this day to own the Patronage and Revenue of this. They have been anciently had in divine reverence, and are next in esteem unto their Mosques. And lastly, in making those places honourable that have them, and the people in health, beauty, stature, activity that frequent them. Certainly the praise of learned men, much less their discourse, maketh not a thing honourable, which is not so in its own self. We know great Authors have discoursed in commendation of little things, the gout, baldness, a louse; and great wits have writ in commendation of folly, of an ass. The harder the theme, the better exercise it is for an accurate wit. The basest excrements have been the subject of great mens discourses, but they have no more honor by it. The work and glory of Princes and Emperours, makes them not so neither. The Pyramids as far surpassed the stateliest baths, as an Elephant a calf. The Manseolum, Colossus, &c. were of more magnificence, and built by great Princes, yet a good Author esteems them no more then Otiosa principum vanitatis portenta. And these Ages think them onely difficiles nugae, erected onely to keep the people and money from being idle. The Patronage of the Duke of Musco, and signior of turkey is little honour to them, nor came their Revenue from them. This might be the cause of that. odour lucri sweetens any vile action to covetous men. You have heard of Vespasians tribute of piss, and the Popes( who is a Prince too) of stews, &c. Are piss, or Whores, &c. the more honourable for that? The Divine reverence is as little to the purpose which he speaks of, a Cow, a Calse were in that rank. So a Crocodile, Garli, &c. Nascuntur in hortis numina. So are pieces of wood and babies in a time of more light. But the Doctor might have learned of Aristotle, that public Artificial baths were not so. It was the hot and natural unto which Divinity was attributed, and not for the structure or water, but {αβγδ}. He might have found as much in England more proper to his purpose. Saint Winnifre her Well, Saint Mungus, &c. For Beauty, tis a great doubt whether they can advantage it. The contrary is found by experience in many. The baths in Muscovie( to take an instance of his own) have not such influence upon the Native●. The women are the ugliest in the world, so that they generally( even the poorest) paint to hid their deformity; and the men almost are as bad, the reason given by travellers is from their attendance upon, and conversation in their baths and Bathe-stvoes. At home in our Somersetshire-Bathes( though perhaps he will answer, they are not artificial) you shall find but few beauties among the Guides, or those that use them most. The story is known, that Angli were called Angeli for their beauty, and indeed no Nation exceeds them; and yet we( to use no other instances, which I can in many) as Dr. Chamberlain saith, are to study and find out the use of baths. Stature and activity or strength is not so dependent upon the use of baths neither. The English, the Scotch, &c. in these dayes, are generally of as big a stature, and much more strong and active then those Nations where they are in use. The old Germans, Scythians, Lacedemonians, were Honourable, and formidable for those qualifications among their proudest neighbours: Yet some were prohibited by Law to wash in warm water. The Germans did drench their young children in could water. Besides, Aristole in his Polit. Plato de Rep. &c. do advice to breed youth in could and hardship,( never to suffer them to use warm fomentations) to make them more active and fit for War. In Plutarch it was prophesied that nothing was so likely to ruin the Roman Empire, as their baths and Amphitheatres which did effeminate the mindes, and weaken the bodies of their youth. Which Hip. in the words before alleged fully gives his suffrage in. But the Doctor goes on. Usefull in Health and sickness, Peace and war, Winter and Summer. He might have added by day and by night, upon festival and working dayes, &c. what his Authority, Experience, and Arguments are, I have in some measure discovered. If he offer more, I shall adventure upon them, unless I be farther convinced. Necessary to all great intentions of Cure, where other medicines nothing benefit, as Gout, ston, Child-bed, Cure of Melancholy, &c. You gape too wide in your general, for your particulars there is no poor tub which may not contend with yours therein, and do as much. O that the Worthies of Parliament, whiles others boast with the tyrant, Psal. 52. that they can do evil, would find out a way to do great things with expedition, and difficult things with ease, &c. O that the Parliament were rid of the vexatious importunities of impertinent persons, that so they might the better attend to settle the public, which now cries out like a woman in travail. FINIS.