A SHORT and SEASONABLE DIALOGUE BETWEEN A PROTESTANT AND A PAPIST: showing The Indiscretion and Unadvisedness of all APOSTATES from the Gospel.  
LONDON, Printed for Langley Curtis on L●dgate-Hill, 1679.   

A SHORT and SEASONABLE DIALOGUE BETWEEN A PROTESTANT AND A PAPIST: showing The Unadvisedness and Indiscretion of all APOSTATES from the Gospel.  PROTESTANT. 
Good morrow Neighbour.  Papist. 
I would also bid you Good morrow were it not for your heresy, but I am bound to be an Enemy of your Religion and its Professors.  Protestant. 
How come you to be bound to such an unreasonable temper? Have we not lived many years as good Neighbours? I never wronged you, but have been always ready to serve and help you according to my power; I have lent you Money ou● of my Pocket, and you never desired any kindness from me that ever I refused. Why are you now so strange? why will you now be at enmity with your Friends upon the account of Religion?  Papist. 
I shall be excommunicated if I countenance and favour such as you are, and be cursed to the Pit of Hell by my most Holy Father.  Protestant. 
He must be a very unreasonable Tyrant that will require any such ridiculous and wicked resolution from you, as pernicious to yourself as to us Protestants in this Nation; for, if you declare enmity against us, can you expect our protection where we are Masters? if you study to embroil the Nation, can you desire from us to be treated as Friends and Countrymen? if in stead of wishing us a good morning, or a good day, you are plotting to cut our Throats, can you in reason and justice expect to live in safety amongst us? Whosoever therefore hath given you this ill devilish temper, and enmity against your Countrymen and neighbours, never wished you well. They seek your ●uine and ours together, and to advantage themselves by the Tumults and Disorders of the Nation. Don't you perceive their wicked designs to destroy us all, under the pretence of Religion, and to set over us a foreign Power, a Frenchman or an Italian? and must not you be a Mad-man to encourage so great a Treason against your Natural Prince and Countrymen? Have you more inclination to be a Slave to a Foreigner, than to enjoy the freedom of a Subject? are you so blind to think that God's honour is promoted by your enmity with us? Let our heresy be never so great, That relates to ourselves, not to you. You may enjoy the liberties of the English Subjects, and the Laws would never have concerned themselves with you, no otherwise than with the rest of the Nation, were you but as peaceably affencted and disposed as they are all, and as mindful of the public safety. Why will you by your hatred draw upon yourselves those mischiefs, punishments, and restraints, which you may avoid by being as good to us as we have desired to be to you?  Papist. 
You speak reason, were not the business of Religion concerned, and the glory of our God. But this makes us not only hazard our lives and fortunes, but declare an unreconcilable hatred to our dearest Relations whom we judge to be contrary to the same. We cannot be well affencted to those who are not so to our Pope and the holy Mass, which two things we honour above all earthly concerns, and cannot suffer the least thought which might injure so tender a part of our Religion. This makes us look upon you▪ heretics, though our Countrymen, as the greatest Enemies of truth and goodness; and the more a verse we are to you, the more we shall merit Heaven, and deserve the greater favour from Christ and his Vicar.  Protestant. 
What a strange persuasion is this? what Infatuation hath possessed your Souls? Religion do ye say, is your Religion the cause of your enmity against us your Brethren? is it your Religion that prompts you and persuades you to be cruel and inhuman to your own blood, to nourish hatred in your minds, and break out into Disorders and Barbarities? From such a Religion, good Lord deliver us▪ My Friend, pray tell me what is the Religion thou dost profess. Is it Christ's Religion; or the Pope's?  Papist. 
They two are but one, for I am a Roman catholic, taught to live according to the Rules of Christ and his blessed Apostles, as they have been delivered to and by the Church of Rome, the Mother of all other Churches of the World.  Protestant. 
Thou deliverest in few words a heap of the greatest absurdities imaginable: Christ's Religion and the Pope's are two distinct Professions, as opposite as Light and Darkness, as the Nadyr and the Z●nith of the Astrologers, or as the Antipodes are to our Climate; for Christ's Religion allows of no bowing to, or before Images of ston, Timber, Gold, or Silver: the Pope's Religion commands this Idol-worship, and furnishes us with an infinite number of Beads, Images, Crosses, relics, and such-like Trinkets that we are to reverence and worship. Christ's Religion saith, that we have but one Mediator betwixt God and Man, the Man Christ Jesus. The Pope's Religion saith, that we have thousands and thousands of Saints and Angels, whose Merits and Intercession save us as well as the blood of the Lamb of God that was sacrificed for us upon the across. Christ's Religion teaches us that God hath made him alone the Head of the Church; and, though in Heaven, he governs all things according to his pleasure on Earth, he defends his People, saves them from ruin and destruction; he dissappoints the Plots of wicked Men. The Pope's Religion saith that the Pope is the Head of the Christian Church, by whose wisdom and direction we are to govern our actions; and that he hath power to abolish the Laws of God, and establish new ones at his pleasure. Christ's Religion hath recommended to us two Sacraments, as Seals of the Covenant of Grace: The Pope's Religion saith there are seven. Christ's Religion teaches how we are to administer these two Sacraments, Baptism, and the Lord's Supper, as he hath shewed us in the Gospel. The Pope's Religion hath introduced Salt, oil, and so many conjuring Tricks, Motions, and various Postures, that agree not with the holy simplicity of the Gospel, nor with the essential parts of Christian Religion. Christ's Religion hath no Masses, Transubstantiation, Pilgrimages, and such-like Fopperies, that render the Papists ridiculous to their Heathen and Mahometan Neighbours. Christ's Religion commands Honesty, Charity, Love, Mercy to Enemies, as well as Friends, enjoins an obedience to all the Moral Law; forbids Cruelty, Rebellion, Murder, Adultery, Fornication, and such-like wickedness contrary to the Light of Reason. The Pope's Religion teaches Inhumanities, encourages Faction and Rebellion, uncleanness, and Disorders; and for worldly ends allows of the greatest villainies and Abuses. How can you think now that these two Religions are but one, that are so contrary in their Principles? Pretences and Cloaks will avail nothing to palliate these fowl Actions and Doctrines. All the World sees that what I have here said of them both is true. The Church of Rome never learned from Christ, nor his Apostles, to murder Kings, to assassinate Princes, to massacre millions of Souls, to dispense with Oaths, to forbid Matrimony, to allow Concubines, to countenance Crimes, to encourage Sin. The Church of Rome never had from Christ, nor his holy Apostles, any thing of the Doctrines of Prergatory, Transubstantiation, the Merits of the Saints, the worshipping of Angels, and a great deal more that I purposely omit.  Papist. 
From hence I warrant you you will conclude, that Papists are no Christians.  Protestant. 
They are Christians by name, and our comprehensive charity will allow them something more, to be Christians because of their Christian Initiation by Baptism, though corrupted and sophisticated with their idle Inventions. But they are no Christians in reality, if they observe strictly the Rules of their Popish Religion, and stick close to the Doctrines and Commands of the Pope. They forsake Christ and his Gospel when they allow themselves liberty to sin by the Pope's Authority, and may be reckoned amongst the apostates of Christianity, because they begin well, and engage themselves by Baptism to Christ's most holy Profession; but immediately after they deviate from it, and run head long a quiter contrary way to that which Christ hath appointed by his Commands and holy Examples. They are Christians as the Arrians, Socintans, and other heretics that denied the Divinity of our blessed Redeemer, and other Fundamentals of the Christian Faith. They are as the circumcised Jews that embraced the Idolatries of Paganism, and left the Religion which God had commanded them.  Papist. 
But how comes it to pass that some of your Ministers say, that it is possible for Papists to be saved, if they be not, or such bad Christians as you have represented.  Protestant. 
I think there is none but a Flatterer that will say, that it is possible to be saved by the Religion of the Church of Rome; for not salvation, but damnation is declared and threatened in Gods Holy Word, to all such Persons as shall forsake Christ and his Merits, to rely upon Saints and Angels, as shall practise all those abominations that the Church of Rome recommends to us. It may be some out of a very great Charity may say, that it is possible to be in the Communion of the Romish Church, and yet obtain salvation from the infinite goodness of a God whose mercy is above all his works. It belongs not to us to tell who are, and who are not saved. It is an impudence in Man to prescribe Rules and Laws to the great Creator, and appoint whom he shall, and whom he shall not admit into his Paradise and glory; or to curse, or damn his Fellow Creatures. God may wash and cleanse from sin the vi●est of Men, and the impurest of Heathens; and pardon them all their transgressions, and make them partakers of the blood of a crucified Christ, by an infused Faith at the moment of their departure out of the World: God may find out means that we are not ware of, to sanctify and glorify whom he pleaseth. Therefore we may say, that such may be saved notwithstanding their former unworthiness and baseness; but 'tis not by that Life they lead on Earth. Thus we confess many good and religious Roman catholics may be saved, but not by that Religion which they profess; not by Masses, Purgatory, Images, the Merits of Saints; for we may confidently affirm, that by these things no Man can be saved. This Charity of ours should not encourage you in your errors and Heresies, but rather oblige you to forsake them: For, is it a sufficient Reason for a Man to cast himself overboard, to say he may by chance swim to Shore through the Billows of the Sea, when he may be safely carried to Land othervise, by abiding in the Ship. The Thiefs fate upon the across makes us believe that Thieves and Robbers may at last find a gracious Saviour, and a good God to pardon them: but is this the way to obtain it, to rob our Neighbours, and plunder their Estates? A Man may escape through a Fire, and only his Clothes may be singed, but we must no● therefore cast ourselves into it without a necessity. But let me tell you Neighbour, if you, or any other Papist knows the truth, and wilfully shut your Eyes to all the discoveries of it; if you see your error and mistakes, and think that by professing them you may be saved, you will find yourselves cozened at last; for Gods grace seldom or never works upon an obstinate heart, hardened by wilful continuance in a known Sin, or error; and there is no salvation to be expected for a resolved lover of 'vice or error, who prefers them to his Duty, and Gods holy Commands.  Papist. 
But how comes it to pass, that so many ingenuous and learned Men, whose bees are as much open as yours, or your Ministers, not only continue in our Religion, but now adays forsake your Religion to return again to the Religion of the Pope of Rome, and are zealous Papists, as you call them.  Protestant. 
Truly it may seem a very great wonder, that Men of any reason in them, not prejudiced by Education, should embrace so ridiculous a Religion, so full of ●opperies and Extravagances as yours is of the Church of Rome, and should become so great Enemies of their human Nature, and of their present, as well as of their future Interest. Ridiculous I call the Popi●● Religion, because it teaches that a bald-pated Pope can forgive me all my sins, dispense with the Laws of God, change and alter the fundamental Laws of the human Nature: It reache● us to pray to God and the Saints in unknown Tongues, wherein Men speak as often Nonsense as Reason: It teaches us to call upon them that cannot hear us, nor yield any assistance in time of need; that a piece of Bread with a few words is altered into an human Body, like that of our Saviours upon the across: that though it tastes like Bread, and looks like Bread, or a Wafer, that it is a real Saviour, a Christ, an Emanuel, a God, and what not: That we must not believe all our Senses, but give them the lie on this occasion: That this transubstantlated Body is circumscribed by place and time, and yet every where upon every Priests Fingers: That their God is to be eaten by Mice and Rats, carried away by Devils, and abused by wicked Men, and subject to all the astronts that the meanest of Creatures are subject to, or such ridiculous and extravagant fancies▪ that no Man of any reason can entertain any such wild opinions of his omnipotent and infinite Maker, or make profession of a Religion that advances any such horrid absurdities. It may seem very strange, that Men of any reasonable Education can yield to any such Doctrines as are Consequents to the Transubstantiation, the worshipping of Images, the praying to Saints and Angels, the Fancies of Purgatory, the Indulgences of Rome, and such-like Opinions, which are so plainly repugnant with our Reason, that none but Mad-men and Fools, none but Blind-men and So●s, can submit to such inhuman and unreasonable Impie●ies, which are as prejudicial to a glorious God, as they are to a reasonable Soul, and tend to give us such mean conceits of our great Creator, that these Doctrines must needs proceed from the Devil, the great Enemy of us both, seeing they ●end to ●urn God into ridicul●.  Papist. 
Hold, hold; we can show the Word of God to prove all these things that you wonder at, and the Writings of the holy Fathers; unto them you say that our reason ought to submit and yield obedience, and why not in these Particulars?  Protestant. 
It is a great mistake, to say the Word of God, or the approved Fathers of the Primitive Church allows your errors. Where have you any thing of Masses, Purgatory, Transubstantiation, bowing to Images, praying to Saints and Angels, and such-like things, in the Word of God, or the Writings of the Fathers? but rather we can show you out of them Passages contrary to these errors. I desire not that you should show me the names, but the things signified thereby. It is impossible, whatever your Doctors say, to show the least sign of those Doctrines, that we deny to be Christian, or rational. I could mention several Passages that speak the contrary, which, because they are well known, I shall omit. But are not Men ridiculous and blind, in hopes of preferment, or for worldly advantages, to become Papists, when they may safely profess a better, and a more reasonable Religion, not guilty of such wild and mad Principles? They are Fools that will prefer the present advantages, benefits, and honours of Life, to the immortal possessions and glories of Eternity; they are worse than Fools that cannot see the Extravagancy of the Romish Faith: and what shall we say of those that see it, and ye● embrace it? Men that are brought up in the Protestant Religion, as it is mis-called, but should be rather name the old catholic apostolic Religion, which Christ and his holy Apostles have professed before us, and recommended to the Doctors and Bishops of the first Ages, and they have delivered to us, and which is recorded for us in the Word of God. Men that see the follies of an implicit Faith, and the dangers they run into by denying Reason that liberty which God and Nature allow it; Men that are not b●assed to the Church of Rome by Education, that such men should forsake the Church of England, and become Papists: after that they have had a full Prospect and Knowledge of Christ and his Gospel, is a strange Mystery that we cannot very well understand, nor unfold, unless we knew all the Intrigues of their Lives, and the Inclinations of their Hearts However such men, let their Reason and Learning be never so great, become ridiculous in the Eyes of their unprejudiced Neighbours. Their unconstancy is an unpardonable Crime, which a Turk or a ●ew, looks upon to be a great disgrace in this case, unless the error be palpable; but to be unconstant in the ways of God, to forsake his Word, and his Religion, to stifle the motions of Conscience, to abandon our Interest in Christ, in his Promises and everlasting Rewards, to make profession of so ridiculous and so in●umane a Religion as the P●pish, so directly opposed to that of our Blessed Saviours, is an unconstancy and weakness that is aggravated with the most ●ainous Circumstances, in regard that Religion appears so foolish and childish in the Eyes of all rational men, and recommends to them such Fopperies and Whimseys, that none that hath the least share in this light of Nature, can well entertain them without blinding this Natural Eye. If we should search into the Souls of those understanding persons, as apostatise to the Pope, we should find them to be either A●heists, Men of no Faith, nor Belief of God, Hell, or Heaven; of the Rewards of the, one, or the Punishments of the other; such are inclinable to any Religion that may su●e with their chief aim to render their lives pleasant upon Earth, and may agree with their Delights and Interests; or they are sensual Worldlings, who are persuaded of the Being of God, and of Rewards and Punishments of another life, but are willing to cheat themselves into a persuasion and possibility of obtaining Heaven without such a strict adherence to Christ and his Religion. Their strong inclinations to ●nst biasses their Judgments before their minds, and leads them headlong into their Eternal Damnation; many are turned to Popery more by Lust than by Reason, because it is a Religion that allows them that liberty which the strict Rules of the Gospel forbid: And after all their pleasures and follies, it astures them of obtaining a Heaven for a little money. Neighbour, I would not have you, nor any one else, to ground your Faith upon so unsound a Foundation as mens lustful Appe●i●es, which occasions their change, but settle it upon God's holy Word which will never fail you. There you shall see that Popery is the Devil's Religion, which by Blood-shed and Cruelties strives to settle his Empire upon the Souls and Consciences of men, and to led them into everlasting Perdition. There you shall understand that Popery is a politic Contrivance to promote the Popes Empire in the World, to enslave all Nations to his proud See, and to cause him to hold by the Power of the Keys what the Roman Empire held by the power of the Sword. But here in England we are not so easily cozened by him and his Wicked Agents, neither will we submit to his horrid Abominations; though our sincerity and constancy cost us our lives and fortunes, we shall be glad to sacrifice them all in the maintenance of God's Truth and Gospel.  Pap. 
I thank you for your Instructions, I shall consider what you have said to me.  Protestant. 
I pray God you may, and that he would open your Eyes and the Understandings of all Nations, that they may not suffer themselves to be cheated of their Honours, Glories, moneys, Estates, and Souls, under the pretence of Religion, by the Pope and his Emissaries. That they may at last break the Fetters of the Roman Bondage, and free themselves from the Tyranny of that Imperious City.  
FINIS.