T^^ J.) 7 



The Engineers' Society 

of 

Western Pennsylvania 



THE ENGINEERS' SOCIETY 

ITS FUTURE 



BY EICHAED HIESCH 
Retiring Chairman of the Mechanical Section 



This paper will not appear in 'the Proceedings, and is printed for 
circulation among Members of the Society only 



Pittsburgh 
1910 



The Engineers' Society 

of 

Western Pennsylvania 



THE E^GIJNTEERS' SOCIETY: 

ITS FUTURE 



BY EICHARD HIRSCH 

u 

Retiring Chairman of the Mechanical Section 



This paper will not appear in the Proceedings, and is printed for 
circulation among Members of the Society only 



Pittsburgh 
1910 

Copyright 1910 by The Engineers' Society of Western Pennsylvania 



<p' 



©CI.A265086 



THE ENGINEERS' SOCIETY— ITS FUTURE 

By Richard HmsoH 



The thoughts in the following paper are presented, not so 
much as the address of a retiring chairman of a Section, but 
rather as the opinion of a member of the Society at large; 
expressed, not upon an impulse, but only after consideration 
and in the belief that I am giving voice to the sentiments of 
a large number of our members. Many of the premises given 
and deductions derived therefrom are formed largely upon 
an intimate knowledge of conditions in other organizations. 

According to our charter, the Society is organized for "the 
advancement of engineering in its several branches, the profes- 
sional improvement of its members, and the encouragement of 
social intercourse among men of practical science." These ends 
to be obtained by "periodic meetings for the discussion of sci- 
entific subjects and social intercourse, the reading of profes- 
sional papers and excursions to examine objects of engineering 
interest." 

This is a foundation broad enough for any society to be 
built upon, even though it contemplates the plan and scope of 
a national organization. The structure of a local society, how- 
ever, must be fashioned largely upon independent lines. Our 
work differs necessarily, in many respects, from that of the 
several National Societies, which, by their very nature, occupy 
a field distinctly their own. Work along lines of original sci- 
entific research, the establishment of engineering standards, the 
consideration of questions involving the engineering interests 
of the whole country, are problems which do not come within 
the province of any body other than one of recognized national 
standing. As to whether we are covering our own particular 
field of labor and obtaining the very best possible results, is a 
question well worth thinking about. 

Address of retiring Chairman. Presented before the Mechanical Section, Feb. 1, 1910. 



2 HIRSCH THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

The Society was organized in the year 1880, and the fact 
that it has maintained that organization continuously for a 
period of thirty years is, in itself, a worthy accomplishment. 
At different times in its history the question has arisen as to 
whether the Society should maintain its identity or become 
affiliated with other associations. Those responsible for the ac- 
tion whereby our organization has continued to exist, must cer- 
tainly have been prompted by a desire to see the full accom- 
plishment of those objects set forth in our charter. 

OUR OBJECTS 

Fig. 1 is a diagram of the objects of the Society as out- 
lined by our charter, and shows the present condition of our 
organization for attaining those objects. 



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Fig. 1 

Fig. 2 is a development of Fig. 1, and, while the objects 
are not at all changed, the method of carrying out the detail 
is more clearly defined. 

PROFESSIONAL IMPROVEMENT 

Under this heading come the regular and special meetings 
of the General Society and Sections for tlie reading of papers 
and scientific discussion, but it has become a problem to procure 
papers for the regular meetings of the Society. One of the 
reasons offered is the fact tliat members wlio are in a position 



HIRSCH — THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 



to write papers of special value are inclined to present them to 
t]ie National Societies. Such action on the part of a member 
cannot reasonably be criticised. If the papers are of unusual 
importance and of value to the engineering fraternity at large, 
they should be published through the channels where they will 









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Fig. 2 









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4 HIRSCH^THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

reach the greatest number, and obtain the widespread recogni- 
tion they deserve. To offset this condition, we should occasion- 
ally procure lectures or papers by men of noted standing in 
their respective professions, and, if need be, sufficient funds 
should be appropriated by the Society to defray any expense 
which might be incurred; but as has been proven in past years, 
an improvement in the general interest of the Society would, 
in itself, solve this problem and no recourse would need be 
made to any unusual or extraordinary measures. 

SOCIAL INTERCOURSE 

There is no part of our work of more importance than the 
encouragement of social intercourse among our members. For 
apparent reasons, this means much more in a local society than 
i1 can possibly mean in a national organization. "We have most 
beautifully appointed rooms, but during the time I was Secre- 
tary of the Society it became a source of much regret to see 
how little our rooms are used. Frequently, several days would 
I'ass without a single member or. visitor coming in; some days 
we would have three, four or possibly half a dozen visitors. 
"What is the reason? Is it because of our location? As a matter 
of fact, we are on the very outskirts of the business section of 
the city, and, although we may be only five minutes' walk out 
of a member's way, it is sufficient to cause him to postpone a 
visit to that very indefinite ''some other time;" were he passing 
our door he would frequently come in, even though it be for 
but a few minutes. A. change in location cannot be made un- 
advisedly, but occasional meetings should be held elsewhere, to 
determine if a change in location would have any effect upon 
the attendance. 

Those of us who have been members for fifteen years or 
more, and who are familiar with the various habitations we have 
occupied during that time, may well take pardonable pride in 
the appointments of our present abode, but must acknowledge 
that we have not yet solved the problem of infusing that inter- 
est which will bring our members together, except on special 
and unusual occasions. 



HIRSCH — THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY : ITS FUTURE 5 

These questions arise: Are we maintaining sumptuous 
apartments so far beyond our needs as to become burdensome? 
Do we really need anything more than a business office and the 
occasional use of an auditorium? Or, have we only partially 
carried out a project, which, when completed, would be the 
means of accomplishing the ideal results we would all like to 
see. No matter how great a work we may plan, or how complete 
the facilities and equipment we may provide for carrying on 
that work, the results will still be confined within the limitations 
defined by the personal element entering into the proposition. 
In the successful administration of the Society's affairs, the 
social interests, in that broad meaning of the term, are of as 
much importance as any other department of our work. The 
entertainment or social committee should have its work as 
clearly defined as that of the publication committee, and our 
finances should be managed so as to provide funds for the use 
of that committee and its sub-committees. The work of this 
department should not be viewed in that narrow plane wherein 
we see but an occasional evening's entertainment, but in its 
broad aspect, wherein it becomes the medium through which we 
are bonded together into a worthy organization having the 
mettle to accomplish the big things that come before us. 

A conversation I had a few days ago with one of our mem- 
bers, affords much food for thought. This gentleman's experi- 
ence as a member of the Society is, without question, identical 
with that of many of our members, and, being so, steps should 
be taken to make such a thing an exceptional and not a common 
condition. This gentleman's business prevents him from attend- 
ing the meetings of the Society with any regularity, but at the 
meetings he has attended during the two or three years of his 
membership he met few men he knew and made but few, if any, 
new acquaintances. He has visited the rooms (I do not know 
how frequently), and, while he has been cordially received by 
the Secretary, he was disappointed to learn that we have so 
few visitors. He has not met the men he expected to come into 
contact with when he joined the Society, and said that his 
membership has really meant but little to him. None of this 
comment was offered in the nature of complaint, but as a plain 



HIRSCH — THE ENGINEERS' SOCIETY : ITS FUTURE 



statement of fact. In addition to this he had a criticism to 
make, not relating to his experience as narrated above, but 
deploring the fact that the Society means so little in the welfare 
of the community. He told me that he read the copy of the 
Proceedings containing the discussion on the street railway 
problem, and said that the discussion was not strong enough and 
did not begin to do the Society justice. The ideas and argu- 
ments offered were not big and broad enough, were disappoint- 
ing to one expecting to hear something of value on so important 
?L subject, and did not have the required weight and force to 
give them value in the public press. This comes from a member 
who is a successful business man as well as an engineer, a gen- 
tleman of fine personal qualifications, a man too broad to be 
prejudiced in any criticism he might make, and one who would 
be warmJy welcomed into the membership of any organized 
body of reputable men. Why should this man be such an ob- 
scure member of this Society, known by few of our members 
and probably not known by any of our officers, other than the 
Secretary ? 

Let the comparatively few of us who are really the active 
members, and well known to each other, take our roster of nine 
hundred members, go through it carefully name by name and 
try to figure out how many cases we have similar to the one 
just cited. If we do this we will probably begin to see ourselves 
as others see us. You will probably accept the statement that in 
the past three or four years not more than one hundred and 
fifty members have actively participated in the affairs of the 
Society. This includes, not only those who have served in an 
official capacity, but also those who have attended meetings 
with sufficient regularity to profit thereby. What of the seven 
hundred and fifty other members? What does membership in 
this organization mean to them? What more do they receive 
than their copy of the Proceedings, which they value from an 
impartial standpoint and not from the more or less prejudiced 
point of view of those responsible for its publication ? 

It is not sufficient that the usefulness of this Society should 
extend to but fifteen per cent, of its members. We differ from 
organizations where all the benefits of membership come with 



HIRSCH — THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 7 

initiation. In such bodies an attendance of fifteen per cent. 
\\ould be considered a well attended meeting. 

EXCURSIONS 

The excursions we have had to points of engineering inter- 
est have been more effective in bringing the members together 
in large numbers than any other one of the Society's functions, 
and for that reason are classified jointly under the heads, ' ' Pro- 
fessional Improvement" and ''Social Intercourse." These ex- 
cursions should be taken more frequently, and at as regular 
intervals as possible. The cost of these affairs must at times be 
met either from the general funds of the Society or be borne by 
those who participated in them. They need not always be local 
in character, but on special occasions distant trips might be 
made, occupying two to three days, the cost in such cases being 
borne by those who make up the party. 

I have dwelt at length upon the social feature, not that 
all else should be subservient, but rather as a legitimate means 
to a desirable end. We are not primarily a social organization. 

ADVANCEMENT OF ENGINEERING 

The graphic analysis of that part of our organization com- 
ing under this head, will no doubt be considered radical by our 
conservative members, but it seems to me that no more rational 
construction can be put upon this particular one of our objects. 

Modern civilization, as it exists today, has been made pos- 
sible only by the work of the engineer; our removal from 
niedieval barbarism is measured by the advances made in that 
profession with which we are identified. If we are to attempt 
to do anything which will tend to the advancement of engineer- 
ing, a part of that work surely consists in the manifestation of 
a lively interest in the public engineering problems of our own 
community. During the years since the organization of this 
Society vast sums of money have been expended in public im- 
provements, wisely or otherwise, I need not say. This refers 
to water works, sewers, bridges, parks, boulevards, streets and 
roads: and, under franchises granted by the city, includes our 
street railway system — all works of an engineering nature. Dur- 



8 HIRSCH — THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

ing all of this period the annals of the Engineers' Society of 
Western Pennsylvania bear little or no record of the fact that 
any opinion whatsoever has ever been expressed upon the ad- 
'V'isability of such expenditures from an economic or utilitarian 
point of view, nor has any action ever been taken whereby the 
Society, as a body, has declared itself upon the expediency of 
such. improvement from an engineering standpoint. Papers have 
been read before the Society from time to time describing 
\arious works of magnitude undertaken by the city or county, 
as the case may be, but while they may have been excellent 
papers and written by very able men, they do not cover the 
point in question; that is, an action by the Society as a body, 
stamped with the approval of an organization of men qualified 
to pass upon the question at issue, and carrying with it that 
dignity which would compel the moulding of public opinion, 
it had been my purpose to ascertain to just what extent work 
of this description is undertaken by organizations similar to 
ours in other places, but I concluded that it was unnecessary 
to look for a precedent when our work lies so clearly defined 
before us. As we all admire a man who proves himself capable 
of doing things, so do men take pride in being identified with a 
progressive organization, and until this Society changes its ultra- 
conservative policy we will continue to live a life of mediocrity. 

What I have said in regard to our attitude toward Public 
Works, applies also to those subdivisions coming under the heads, 
Public Service and Civics. It would be far from our thoughts to 
become partisans in local politics, as such; but as the leading 
and, in fact, the only organization in this community to which 
this work rightly belongs, we should occupy that plane where 
we would be an assurance to our fellow citizens and a power 
to be reckoned with by our public servants. As the diagram 
shows, this work would be carried on through special commit- 
tees and by co-operation with other bodies, technical and civic. 
We should interest ourselves in the works of the United States 
Government so far as it comes within our province to do. 

The entertainment of visiting technical societies seems to 
classify under this head rather than the social. 



HIRSCH — THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 9 

ADMINISTRATION 

As to whether any organization can live and flourish de- 
pends, first, upon whether that organization is a necessary or 
desirable one, and, second, upon its administration. An organ- 
isation, necessary and otherwise successful, may fail because of 
an undesirable element coming into predominance. In this 
Society we have nothing to offer as an inducement to member- 
ship which would appeal to any but those who have the quali- 
fications we require, and we have no undesirable element. As 
to whether this Society is a necessary organization requires no 
argument, and the question is passed as axiomatic. 

A very common cause of disintegration in organized bodies 
is the failure on the part of those on the governing board to 
call into their councils, as committeemen or otherwise, members 
other than those numbering among their own acquaintances, 
with little effort to canvass the membership for available ma- 
terial among those with whom they may never have come into 
personal contact. As a consequence, the administration may 
for years be in the hands of a certain comparatively few men, 
who, drawn together by the work, and augmented possibly by 
other and outside interests, come into very close and friendly 
association. This results, unconsciously and no doubt uninten- 
tionally, in those of the administration becoming, in effect, a 
ruling power, and the management continues from year to year 
in the hands of the same set of men. This does not for a moment 
suggest the existence of politics or that the affairs are not 
handled in the most thoroughly business-like manner so far as 
those things in themselves are concerned. The evil exists in the 
fact that a comparatively small part of the membership ever 
becomes interested in the organization, nor are they ever made 
to feel that the organization may have some interest in them. 
This is quite a natural result of the premises taken, as it can 
very readily be assumed that any coterie of men in close, 
friendly relationship will have, to a very considerable extent, 
the same circle of friends and acquaintances to whom their 
influence extends. All activity centers around the few, and the 
main body of the association is a cold, unleavened mass. The 



10 DISCUSSION THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

management may plan among themselves, but outside of their 
o^\^l limited circle there is little response and no enthusiasm.^ 

It is sometimes a disadvantage to have on a board of -man- 
agement men who can spare but little of their time to devote to 
the work, While it may be a decided advantage, for many rea- 
sons, to have men of high standing in their professions, that 
particular benefit is offset by the many other demands made 
upon them. A roster of prominent men looks well in print, but 
may often mean poorly attended meetings and lack of activity 
in the organization, whatever it may be. 

This Society is too old in point of years, is of too much 
value- to its members and the community, and has too much 
latent energy to allow it to lead but a passive existence, or to 
become merely a bureau of publication. 

DISCUSSION 

Mr. E. K. Morse in opening the discussion said that he 
was glad the author qualified his remarks about cliques which 
might dominate to the detriment of the Society, and said that 
so far as his experience and knowledge of Society affairs ex- 
tended, the men who were and had been in official positions had 
not sought them, that those men usually chosen as officers were 
active in the affairs of the Society, and that the Society had 
been free from cliques. He said this was certainly true during 
the time Mr. Albree was President when the membership of the 
Society reached its greatest number, and remarked that the 
growth of the Society had, in some degree, stopped, and that 
he was surprised to learn from the Secretary's annual report 
of a net increase of only five members during 1909, in spite of 
the fact that no one could have been more active than Past 
President Barnsley. He stated that, had the Board of Direction 
exercised what the By-Laws of the Society import, the member- 
ship would be much less than at present. 

Referring to the comments of the Author on the need for 
the help of the layman engineer in carrying on public work, he 
spoke of the work of Mr. F. H. Newell, a most able layman 

* The thougrht here contained is based upon observations in another association extendinjr 
over a period of years, and w^hile it may not apply to any great extent, if at all, to this 
Society, is given expression that we may not fall into the same error.— Author. 



DISCUSSION THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE H 

engineer, who lias had almost entire charge of the government 
irrigation work in the West, and said that the State Legislatures 
as well as the National Government will call more and more 
on the layman engineer, as improvements on the rivers and 
irrigation projects are multiplying many times faster than the 
number of engineers in the War Department. He referred to 
his connection with the Civic and Flood Commissions of Pitts- 
burgh, and regretted that the city authorities had called into 
counsel engineers from outside the cit^^ rather than local engi- 
neers, as there are members of the Society eminently well quali- 
fied for the service required. 

He mentioned the standing of the Society in the community 
and tlie work it should do in furthering the interests of the 
public in the matter of revising the building code, etc., and 
expressed the belief that the Society should take a more active 
interest in Civic affairs. He referred to the work of the Flood 
Commission, of which he is a member, which is composed of 
local engineers doing an immense amount of work without com- 
pensation, and mentioned the great amount of construction work 
which mil be done in this ^dcinity during the next five years, 
at a cost of 60 to 75 millions of dollars, and stated the city 
authorities will make use of local engineers just the moment the 
Society makes itself a power in the community and exercises 
to the full extent its moral force. 

Mr. J. 0. Handy referred to the social feature as very 
important in the Society, and said that, while all derive much 
benefit from papers read, more attention should be given to 
making members acquainted with each other. He said that the 
inspection trips were a great help in this direction, and believed 
that the annual banquets should be so planned as to make them 
as representative of the membership as possible. While the 
banquets in the past have been very enjoyable, he believed that 
a reduction in price should be tried next year to see w^hether 
it would bring out a larger and more representative attendance. 

Mr. F. Z. Schellenberg thought tliat tlie term moral force 
fit the case exactly, and said that if the city and county authori- 
ties felt that there was moral force behind the professional 



12 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

ability in the Society that it would help its standing. He be- 
lieved that there should be more inspection trips and social meet- 
ings of the Society. 

Mr. E. K. Hiles was in full agreement with the Author in 
regard to appointing committees to report on civic work, and 
believed that if committees entered actively into their work and 
made reports on engineering work proposed to be carried on 
by the City and on recommendations made by the Mayor's 
cabinet that money would be saved to the City. He believed 
that, should occasion arise, the concerted efforts of the members 
of the Society would induce the authorities to change their plans 
on any engineering project which failed to secure its approval. 

In the matter of membership he suggested that an active 
Membership Committee be appointed, which should hold fre- 
quent meetings and put into effect business methods, in an 
effort to add to our membership the 500 or more engineers in 
the Pittsburgh District who should be members of the Society. 
He further pointed out that the individual members of the 
Society could very largely assist the Committee in its work by 
forwarding to the Secretary lists containing names of engineers 
whom they considered would make desirable members. 

He suggested that, although there are many brilliant men 
in the Society, it would be advisable for the Publication Com- 
mittee to have papers presented four or five times a year by 
well-kno^Ti engineers from other cities, and pointed out that 
this would not only add to the value and standing of our Pro- 
ceedings, but very largely to the interest and attendance at 
our meetings. He believes that earnest continued efforts sliould 
be made to secure papers of more general interest, not only 
on engineering topics presented by non-resident engineers, but 
on matters of particular interest in the Pittsburgh District. 
He noted that within the past year when papers of particular 
moment had been presented by strong men that the auditorium 
liad been crowded, and expressed the belief that the average 
attendance at meetings can be more than doubled if the Pub- 
lication Committee were given a liberal appropriation to pay 
expenses of non-resident engineers presenting papers before the 
Societv. 



DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 13 

Referring to the Author's comments on the neglect of 
members to use the Society rooms, he suggested that the Enter- 
tainment Committee arrange for smokers to be held monthly 
in the rooms. He mentioned that the rooms are open every 
Saturday night, but the attendance has never been over half a 
dozen, and raised the question as to whether some other night 
in the week would suit the members better. 

He mentioned the Employment Bulletin published monthly 
in the Proceedings, and suggested that the members of the 
Society could assist in the development of this work very largely 
by calling on the Secretary when in need of engineers or drafts- 
men, and also by suggesting to men applying for positions to 
call on the Secretary of the Society. He believes that the 
Employment Bulletin should be printed on the monthly notices, 
which are mailed about the middle of each month. 

Mr. Gr. E. Flanagan, speaking of the usefulness of the 
Engineers' Society in comparison with other bodies in civic 
good, suggested that it is not. always the most showy factor 
that is really the potential factor in that or any other problem. 
He said that no one who has attended its meetings for a number 
of years past can consider that the Society has been an unim- 
portant factor in the city's life, and that, though quiet, its 
influence has been felt. He expressed the opinion that the 
Author's paper is most timely in its effort to awaken the mem- 
bers to the fact that it is necessary for them in view of their 
very busy lives, to put pressure upon themselves to do their 
full part in the furtherance of the interests of the Society. He 
pointed out that we cannot expect to have the attendance at 
the rooms that a social club would have, as the membership is 
too busy with other things, and suggested that it is well worth 
( onsidering whether the Society should maintain quarters of 
the character of its present rooms, exclusive of the auditorium 
and Secretary's office, or whether it would not be more beneficial 
in producing results to use the same rental for even smaller 
quarters more centrally located, where, as has been suggested, 
we could meet each other daily. 

Mr. 0. L. Gerwig thought more attention should be given 
to bringing members into closer touch with each other, as there 



14 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

id a decided lack of acquaintance throughout the membership. 
He believes that the younger members should be encouraged to 
take more interest in Society affairs. 

Mr. G. E. Flanagan remarked that one of the principal 
objects of the Society is to have engineering papers read at the 
meetings, and pointed out that one of the greatest difficulties 
is to secure the necessary number of papers on a sufficient 
variety of topics. He suggested that a member who desires to 
hear a paper on any particular subject should address a card 
to the Publication Committee suggesting the subject, and if he 
can include the names of members, or of non-members, capable 
of writing on, or of discussing, the subject, so much the better. 
He pointed out that if any considerable number of the members 
were to do this that the work of the Publication Committee 
and the Secretary would be materially lightened, and observed 
that the progress of the Society depends largely upon the efforts 
of this Committee and the Secretary. 

Mr. E. K. Hiles in continuing the observations of the last 
speaker suggested that if every member of the Society were to 
keep the matter of programs for the Society in mind and would 
size up the various men they come in contact with during the 
day as to the possibility of securing papers of interest from 
them that the Publication Committee would receive many valu- 
able suggestions. 

In this connection he said further that the members of the 
Society could assist the management very largely in the matter 
of paying the expenses of publishing the Proceedings by drop- 
ping a word now and then with regard to the advertisements 
in the Proceedings. If suggestions were made to possible adver- 
tisers as to the advisability of advertising in the Proceedings, 
and the Secretary notified of such suggestions, and if members 
in writing for quotations would mention having seen a com- 
pany's advertisement in the Proceedings, much good would re- 
sult. He observed that our Proceedings can grow only as funds 
become available, and that the advertising columns is the most 
fruitful field for obtaining funds for that purpose. With more 
money available more papers can be published, which could be 



DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 15 

more fully illustrated. The Secretary made these suggestions 
\^ith the hope of enlisting the active interest of all members of 
the Society. 

Mr. p. S. Whitman observed that the Society lacked elas- 
ticity, and referred to the same names appearing on the various 
committees year after year. He recognized that there are good 
reasons for this b^ing the case, and brought out the fact that 
the work of the Society is being done by a very few of the 
individual members. The speaker's experience in other organ- 
izations has been that the best results are secured by getting 
the most members at work. Referring to the criticism made 
that the Society does not take enough interest in public affairs, 
he observed that if a lively interest were taken that it would 
work a benefit not only to the community but to the Society. 
He suggested that there is no better way to become acquainted 
than to work on a committee which has some definite object in 
view. 

Mr. E. K. Morse referred to the matter of advertisements 
in the Proceedings, and stated from personal knowledge that 
for ten years past there would have been a deficit running from 
$500 to $1500 every year had it not been for advertisements, 
and remarked that he knew of no other way to make it up. He 
referred to the time when he was Chairman of the Publication 
Committee, four years ago, when the Western Society of Engi- 
neers in Chicago received $4000 for advertisements against our 
$1200. He stated that this is one of the main sources of revenue 
for the Society, and thought that the members of the Society 
should render such assistance as they can. 

Mr. G. K. Smith expressed the opinion that the Society 
should have a larger and more quiet auditorium in more cen- 
trally located quarters, and suggested in the interests of economy 
that it might prove ad^dsable to do away with the floor space 
now devoted to the club room, unless the members spend more 
time in it than at present. 

He remarked on -the noticeable hesitancy on the part of the 
members to fraternize on meeting nights, and suggested that 



16 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS ' SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

the spirit of the "glad hand" be evidenced more generally in 
an effort to become acquainted with the ''other fellow." 

He suggested, in order to avoid the dire results of waning 
enthusiasm, that the personnel of the officers of the Society 
should be changed more frequently, with terms of office short- 
ened to not more than one year, with the understanding that 
only those who have not held office be selected to fill vacancies, 
and that these selections be made not only from among the more 
active members, but also from those less active who appear 
promising. He referred to the very successful working out of 
this plan in another organization. 

The speaker referred to the custom which formerly ob- 
tained among the members of assembling for dinner at 6 :30 
o'clock at a downtown hostelry on meeting nights. These din- 
ners, moderate in price, were always preceded by an informal 
reception half an hour earlier in which real good-fellowship 
obtained. He was of the opinion that these dinners were of 
much benefit and added largely to the welfare of the Society. 

He believed that the meetings should be made popular by 
getting the prominent engineers to come out, and referred to 
the very human desire cherished by the "man down the line" 
to meet and enjoy the benefit of acquaintance with the man 
"higher up." 

Mr. J. 0. Handy suggested in furtherance of the "glad 
hand" idea that the plan might be followed on meeting nights 
of members wearing slips of paper bearing their names. He 
said he had seen this tried with good success in getting ac- 
quainted on several occasions, and that it indicated a desire to 
have men speak to the member. 

Mr. E. K. Hiles in speaking on the subject of getting ac- 
quainted said that he had tried the expedient of pinning little 
ribbons labeled Reception on the coat lapels of a number of 
members at each meeting, remarking to them during the pin- 
ning operation that the position was not purely honorary but 
one that called for good, active hustling. In spite of this caution, 
however, three or four of the decorated members would fre- 
quently be seen talking together in a corner, which was hardly 



DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY : ITS FUTURE 17 

what tliey were supposed to do; but stated that in the main 
these impromptu Reception Committees did efficient and faith- 
ful work. 

Mr. G. p. Cavalier said he was one of the new members 
in the Society, having been elected to membership only a 
couple of months ago, during which time he had met quite a 
number of members, and that he was surprised to hear com- 
plaints of lack of sociability, and suggested that the Society is 
probably improving in this direction and that the conditions 
complained of do not exist at present. 

Referring to the statement that the w^ork of the Society 
is carried on by only a few members, he observed that in most 
organizations there are usually only a few men wdlling to do 
the work necessary to the success of the organization. 

He said that one of the principal inducements to him in 
becoming a member of the Society w^as the fine library and the 
reading rooms, and that he would be very sorry to dispense with 
them in order to go into smaller quarters; but believed that a 
more central location would be advantageous. 

Mr. F. B. Martin said that the Civil Engineers' Society 
of Eastern New York use a little lapel button holding a slip 
of paper on which the name of each member is printed, and 
as a stranger in that Society he had found the plan very useful. 

He observed that young men join the Society with the 
hope of meeting their superiors, and referred to the first meet- 
ing he attended when the three men who recommended him 
were all absent, leaving him in the position of feeling that he 
had ''butted in." He remarked that the situation was a dis- 
couraging one when the younger men are not introduced to the 
older members, that a feeling soon becomes ingrown that their 
superiors do not care to know them, and they drop away from 
active interest in the Society. 

He referred to discussions of papers in the Sections, and 
observed that the young men at times feel a hesitancy about 
entering into the discussion, which could be overcome by an 
effort on the part of the presiding officers. 

He said that it does help the younger men to have the 



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18 DISCUSSION — THE ENGINEERS^ SOCIETY: ITS FUTURE 

older members give them the ' ' glad hand, ' ' and that the younger 
members frequently mention this. 

He said further that he had derived great benefit from his 
membership in the Society, though much of the time he has 
been a non-resident member, and that he has met many men 
throughout the country who have profited from the Proceed- 
ings. 

Mr. John Allison was of the opinion that something in 
the nature of informal meetings is needed which mil give new, 
or prospective, members more opportunities of getting ac- 
quainted than the few minutes available before the regular 
iormal meetings. 



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