"'3^ > ,0 V ^ ^IW^ .^^ <:^ •:>. ■^#C^'' -<^^^^. ^0- ^^^ ^i^®!** ./^, ^^,^ ^^ac%^ '"^.^^ :Wi 'iW^ '^0 v^^ , -.0 ^r. " ^^;^;^ ./ * N ' '= '^^ -. ^ :^^^^% "1^ ■.^^¥/ ,^^ ^.,^- c^^,- * O » ^^ RE PORT OF THE ' COMMISSION AlTOINTEl) BY THH I'KESIDEN' INVESTIGATE THE CONDUCT OF THE WAR DEPARTMENT IN THE WAR WITH SPAIN. O MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION: Gen. Gkenvii,le M. Dodge, Iow;>, President. C'dI. James A. Sexton', Illiuois. Col. Charles Denby, Indiana. C'apt. Evan P. Howei.l, Georgia. Ex-Governor Urban A. Woodbuuv, Verraout. Brig. Geu. John M. Wilson, Chief of Engiueern, U.S. A Gen. James A. Beaver, Pennsylvania. Maj. Gen. Alexander McD. McCook, U. S. A. Dr. Phineas S. Conner, Ohio. Kichakd Weightman. Secretary. Li(^ut. Col. F. B. Jones, Chief Quarterniaster of Volunteers, Disbursiwj Officer. Maj. Stephen C. Mills, Recorder. IN EIGHT VOLUMES. Vol. 6. testimony. WASHINGTON: GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 1899. Lll5 CONTENTS-VOLUME VI. Page. Dr. Cyrus Edson ---- 2405-3408 Dr. Albert E. Gallant - 2408-2410 Maj. John W. Snmmerhayes 2410-2420 Charles M. S^\^ft 2420-24;31 Henry P. Kirkham - - 2431-2438 Steward Preston C. King 2433-2435 Dr. M. O. Terry 2435-2445 Mrs. L. W. Qnintard -- -- 2446-2456 Miss Alice B. Babcock .--. 2456-2460 Dr. Joseph F. Chmelicek 2460-2464 W. H. Baldwin, jr - -- 2464-2479 Eleanor L. Coe 2479-2480 Leonard W. Johnson 2481-2484 Dr. William H. Prescott 2484-2497 Dr. Laura A. C.Hughes... 2497-2504 Gen. Adelbert Ames . _ _ _ - - - 2505-2510 Dr.E.G.Brackett --.- - 2510-2516 Mrs. Elizabeth Bell Thomas 2516,2517 Dr. Richard C'. Cabot 2517-2520 Dr. George Frank Campbell 2521,2522 Corpl. William B.Kenibbs 2523-2528 Dr. Miles Standish -.-- -- 2528-2531 Dr.Herbert L. Burrell 2532-2535 Private J. B. Houston 2536-2539 Dr.James Booth Clarkson 2539-2542 Maj. Charles K. Darling 2542-2547 Lieut. Jeremiah G. Fennessey 2547-2553 Dr. Frank M. Johnson 2554-2556 Asst. Surg. Henry La Motte 2556-2565 Edward Atkinson 2565, 2566 Dr. David Clarke 2566-2574 Rev. Dr. Edwin S.Wheeler 2574,2575 W.H.Seabury 2576-2579 Private A. Brown , 2579, 2580 Grafton J. Cushing 2580-2583 Col. Charles Pfaff 2583,2584 Maj. Charles L.Heizmann ...- 2584-2602 Dr. Daniel Fiske Jones 2603-2606 Col. Charles Bird 2607-2624 Col. Crosby P.Miller 2624-2642 Col. Williams. Patten .- 2643-2654 Capt. James M. McKay 3655-2679 III ly CONTENTS. Page. Dr. Edward H.Bradford - 2680-2682 Lieut. Col. George W.Goethalf - 2682-2690 Col. James M.Moore - - 2691-2712 Col. John F. Marsh - - 2712-2717 Col. J. G. C. Lee 2717-2726 Maj. IraC. Brown - 2726-2*50 LieiTt.Col. M.C.Martin. 275.5-2760 Clinton Smith ^!^?~^!*!2 Paymaster-General Thaddeus H. Stanton 2765-2767 Col. Frank J. Hecker 2767-2796 Col. Charles H. Alden 2796-2809 Private James E. Smith - 2809-2812 Surgeon-General Sternberg 2812-2849 Brig. Gen. Daniel W. Flagler 2850-2869 Maj. Daniel M. Appel... - 2869-2889 Maj. A.H. Appel - 2889-2909 Maj. Valery Havard 2909-2925 Brig. Gen. Adolphus W. Greely --- --- 2925-2938 Brig. Gen. Charles P. Eagan - 2938-2968 Col. A. Hartsuff 2968-3014 Brig. Gen. Francis L. Guenther 3014-3017 Rev. Edward A. Kelly --- 3017-3024 National Relief Commission, letter from 3025 Maj. Benjamin F. Pope.. - 3025-3057 Dr. Urben Sinclair Bird - - 3057-3064 Maj. Gen. John R. Brooke 3064-3106 Brig. Gen. John F. Weston 3106-3115 TESTIMONY. New York, November 25, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF DR. CYRUS EDSON. Dr. Cyrus Edson. upon request, appeared befoi'e the commission, and, liaving no olijection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Wilson: Q. Will yon V)e kind enough to give your name, profession, and present resi- dence? A. Cyrus Edson: physician; 56 West Fiftieth street. New York City. Q. And length of time you have been in practice? A. About eighteen years. By Dr. Conner: Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us, in your own way, whether or not, in the first place, you had occasion to visit any of the camps during the past summer: and if so, in wh^t condition you found them, what particular conditions there attracted your attention, and what reports you have had occasion to make upon them? A. 1 visited Camp Thomas at Chickaraauga just in an incidental sort of way shortly after the camp was established. I was down in the South on business. I own an interest in some property in Alabama, and was visiting it, and ran over to see the camp, l)ut I want to answer your question as to what cainps I vLsitetl. 1 visited that, but I didn't examine it closely and merely looked at it from an interested standpoint for a few hours. On August 13 I visited Camp Wikoff at the request of the New York World, and I examined the site of the camp at the time the troops from Tampa had arrived, or some of them, and none of the troops, I was informed, from Santiago had yet arrived there. I met Maj. Ira Brown, who was very busily engaged in erecting the general hospital. He had already con- structed six hospital tents and had a few sick soldiers in them at the time. My attention was particularly directed to the water supply. To me the camp seemed to be very excellent— the site of Montauk Point to me seemed to be an excellent site, at that time, except in regard to the water supply. It seemed poor and inadequate. At tlie time the water was being brought there in large water- ing carts from a distance, and a well was being dug not a great ways from the sheet of water known as Fort Pond, and about— well, about three or four hun- dred feet from the sheet of water. On the east bank of the pond a stratum of water had been reached at about 32 or 33 feet depth, and water was entering the hole of the well from depths less than that, trickling down the sides. The men in charge of the work told me they had struck a splendid find of water at about 33 or 34 feet. I have had very wide experience in examining wells. I have been commissioner of health for the State and the city, and I have held every position that a physician can hold in the health department, commencing at the lowest, and also the highest, and I do not think, from the experience I have had, that the well was either a safe well or that it would furnish an ade- quate supply. The reason I did not consider it safe was that the water at the time of my visit, while it was good and sweet, yet the condition of the strata through which the water passed in reaching the water-bearing strata — the char- acter of that strata— was suth that it could not furnish anything but a poor supply of water. 240.5 2406 TNVERTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. My second visit was August 12, when I again met Dr. Brown, who impressed me very favorably, and he seemed to be very busily engaged in doing all a man could do with the almost superhuman work he had to accomplish. At that tune the well was in active operation. Tiie pump, however, was not going. I noticed that apparently the people who had dug the well had but little faith in its being a permanent supply, for a line of pipe had been run to Fort Pond, and a force pump (steam pump) connected with it, and the water from the pond, at the time of my visit, was being pumped into the large tank which supplied the ciunp with water— the Fort Pond water. 1 had taken a small vial of it home for the purpose of estimating the amount of salt in it, and I found that it contained over 1 grains ol's(xlium chloride. In regard to the hospital tents, there were 50 of them erected. I coimted them, and they were filled by sick soldiers, as far iuS I could judge by the circumstances and conditions. The people who were in charge, the surgeons and nurses, seemed to be doing everything in their power to make their conditions as comfortable as possible; but the tents were very overcrowded. I counted the men— that is, the men in different tents. The tents were intended to hold, so I was informed— that under the Army Regulations they shoiild hold aO men to each tent. In several tents there were 70, and in (juite a number of others there were 40 to 50. I think in only one or two instances did 1 see 30 and in no case under 30. Dr. Brown was discharging at that time 75 men. I won't be certain of that, how- ever, but my impression is that, and I heard him myself give very positive instructions to the surgeons who had charge of the men. They were to go over the Long Island Railroad on a train that left close to noon. I heard him give very particular instructions to not send any man who was too ill to be transported. He repeated that at least four or five times m my presence, and when the men went out I looked them over casually, and I didn't see that any were not fit to go. 1 visited the detention camp with Colonel Forwood, and incidentally looked at his supplies, and it seemed to me that there was more than enough at that time for every purpose the supplies could be needed. The only thing that I woiild criticise was that I did not think it was ]mssible to get a safe supply of water every day after the camp had been occupied for any length of time. Of course, when the well was first dug the water was very fair there. Q. Was that the only time yoii had occasion to visit Montauk? A. Yes, sir; those two vi.sits. The 30th of August was the last time I was there. Q. Do you remember. Doctor, whether the dip of the strata was such as to naturally carry the seepage into the well or away from it? A. I don't think it would naturally carry it into the well, but I do not think it would prevent some of it from reaching the well. Q. Think you that the water from the pond you mention. Fort Pond A. (Interrupting.) I can give my reasons for that last answer. The general hospital was situated above the bottom of the well, at a distance from it, scarcely a safe distance, and at no point between the general hospital and the well was there any impervious matter. There was a layer of clay which was intermixed with sand and gravel between the well and the surface of the ground, and that layer evidently underlaid the whole camp. It was not an impervious layer to pre- vent the seepage from entering: but at another point between the drainage from the hospital would seep into the ground naturally through the latrines, and there was nothing that would protect the well, that would prevent it from entering the well. Q. Did its strata dip toward the well or from the well? A. They dipped slightly from the well. Q. Any very decided dip? A. Not in my judgment. Q. Have you had occasion to know as to tlie opinion that has been entertained \ DE. CYRUS EDSON. 2407 as to the character of that water of the people wh > 'i id occasion to visit Montauk and stay there summer after siimmer':' A. I have no doubt that the water is a most excellent sxipply— that is. I may explain that in this way. We had here on Manhattan Island, before it became a great c-ity, lots of ^ood springs, ])ut after it became a city we were apt to have them contaminated. Q. 1 understood you to say you didn't notice anything particularly out of the way in the hospital? A. Only there seemed to be a good deal of confusion, which apparently was un- avoidable. 1 noticed a great many visitors there— quite a number of people who were allowed to go around, but who. I think, were only in the way. q. At the time of your visit on the l'3th, was the officer in charge puiting up tents or not, or did he have tents to put up or not? A. I don't know. I think ihat he expectel to get rid of a number of cases, and then there would be more room. q. You spoke of the tents containing 10 to 70 patients. You mean the aggrega- ticm, the tents which constituted a ward, I suppose— tents put in end to end. A. Three or five. q. Three or five? A. That I don't remember. I remember that the Army Regulations— Dr. Brown told me they shouhl hold not over 30. Q. That would be six beds to a tent and five tents? A. Yes, sir ; five tents. q. And at this time they were very much overcrowded? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether or not that overcrowding continued? A. I don't know anything of the condition of my own knowledge after August 30. q. What was the general impression you and others had? A. That the congestion would be relieved. Q. That it would be relieved? A. Yes, sir. Q. By removal and changes? A. \'es, sir. q. Aside, then, as we understand it, aside from your views on the water (jues- tion, you were rather favorably inclined to the camp site? A. On August 12 I would have said and did say that with the exception of the water question it was an ideal site; but afterwards it appeared to me that (he high winds there and the dust were not very good. The road was cut to pieces by these heavy trucks and mule teams, and on August 12 the air was full of dust, and it was extremely unpleasant, I should think extremely irritating, to one with bronchial troubles, and I noticed that they prevailed. Q. Did you yourself, or any of your assistants, or anyone whose ciualifications you can vouch for. examine this water afterwards and find it in any way contami- nated? A. No, sir; I didn't judge it was contaminated, but rather that it would be. Q. The question I asked was whether at any subse(iuent time of the camp, of your own knowledge, you ascertained that the water was contaminated? A. No, sir. Q. Was any other supply than this" used during the time that the troops were kejjt at Montauk? A. Other than the Fort Pond and the well referred to? Q. Y^es, sir. A. Some other was brought from a distance. I couldn't ascertain where it came from. I looked at it in the watering carts and it seemed to me to be a very excel- lent quality. 2408 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Judging from what you say, could an occupation of, say, sixty days probably result in a contamination of the water? A. Ib(>lieveit would; 3^es,sir. It would be very dangerous. One can not answer a question like that exactly. Q. Of course. Would the occupation for a period of thirty days, think you, be likely to make trouble? A. I scarcely think that thirty days would do it. Q. Is it or is it not a fact that typhoid fever did not prevail in the camp except as it was brought in? A. I believe that was the fact. Q. So that up to the time of the abandonment of the camp there was very little of it left, if any? A. Yes, sir. However, that point 1 take against the water supply is liorne out by this: At the time I was there the siapply from Fort Pond, which contained a large am(HI.(HI 040. IK) 5I^H I. 00 3.50. (M> 000. 00 Cost of fitting. $3,440.88 3,4-10.88 3. 440. 88 3; 440. 88 4, 477. .50 5,4(H;. 8(1 3,975.(i5 1,381). (M) 3,314.05 l,!l4t;. 11) 3,117.05 1,330.00 1,700.10 3, .507 84 1,878.50 3,440.88 3,083.30 9,33.3.07 10, 303. 87 Date of receipt. Apr. 39, 1898 May 10,1898 .- do do June 13, 1898 do May 10, 1S98 do. do do do. do ...do May 11,1898 do June 3,1898 do June 15, 1898 Juno 13, 1898 Date of sail- ing from New York. May 1,1898 May 14,1898 do. May 13,1898 June 29, 1898 do May 15,1898 May 10, 1898 May ,30. 189.S May 15.LS98 ....do May 10,1898 May 14,1898 do May 13,1898 June 4,l8'.i8 do July 0,1898 June -.i:!, 1898 Fitted f or- Men. Horses. 835 835 1,0.50 095 8ri5 335 845 &35 1,045 637 840 640 770 990 740 5.50 a55 365 840 450 3(K) 200 4 Mobile Roumanian Berlin. Massachusetts. Michigan Manitoba Miiniewaska... Chester Date of receipt. June 30, 1898 do... do July 7,1898 July 9,1898 do July 14, 1898 do July 20, 1898 July 26, 1898 do Date of sail- ing from New York, July 5, do.. July 8, July 13, July 21, July 15. July 22, July 21, Aug. 1, Aug. 6, Aug. 8, 1898 1898' 1898 1898 1898 1898 1898 1898 1898 1898 Cost of fitting. 076.03 mi. .53 933. 70 672. 73 128.73 279. 36 314.29 841.29 245.11 4:16. 08 ,431.. 38 Fitted for- Men. Horses. 1,080 840 l,a50 1,080 1,145 3,075 1,080 840 1,080 1,3(K) 1.370 1,000 800 100 1,000 50 1,000 800 l,OfM) 1,0(K) 350 "Ventilating plants for the Roumanian, Berlin, Minncwaska, Chester, Manitoba. Distilling plants for the Obdam, Chester. New York, November .?5, isns. TESTIMONY OF CHARLES M, SWIFT. Mr. Charles JM. Swift, upon re(|uest, appeared before the commission, was sworn l)y General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Wilson: C^. Will you kindly give us your name and official diity? A. Charles M. Swift; officially 1 am purveyor of the fleet. Q. On duty under whom? A. Under Major Summerhayes. Q. The duty you performed as purveyor of the fleet consisted of w^hat? A, Putting stores aboard; ship's stores for the stowage department. CHARLES M. SWIFT. 2421 Q. That is, for the officers and crew of the ship proper; not for anybody else? A. No, sir. Q. What do those stores consist of mostly? A. About everything you can think of that you can get in this hotel; every- thing that is furnished on a first-class trans- Atlantic liner. Q. Is that furnished to the crew also? A. No, sir. Q. Will you kindly state what you put on that ship for the officers and what you put on for the crew? A. That is rather a tedious list. I have a list copied from some of the ships that have been furnished [papers are handed to General Wilson]; fresh beef, tresh fish, vegetables, jellies, jams. Q. I see there are no quantities on them? A. No, sir; they fill them in. Q. (Examining papers.) Here is what was furnished the steamship Obdam, July 20, 1898. It contains a large list of articles, just as the Colonel has said, that can be found anywhere. How many days were these for? A. Sixty days, I think; they averaged from forty-five to sixty days for so many men; from 75 to 100, according to the size of the ship. Q. Were those articles furnished by contract or in the open market? A. In the open market. (^. No competition invited at all? A. Wo could not very well do that when I got an order to-night to furnish a ship to-morrow. Q. You had it that way often? A. I have had it several times, probably twelve. Q. These were generally from large establishments here at the current market prices? A. Yes, sir; R. C. Williams and houses of that standing; I got the vegetables and the best of everything, because the best is the cheapest; I got the poultry of Robbins, and the vegetables from Oehrichs, at the Fulton Market, all packed in the best manner. By General Dodge: Q. Is there not a good deal in the packing of these articles as to their keeping? A. Yes, sir; a great deal. By General Wilson: Q. In this case, the Obdam with the material on board for thirty days, have you in mind the officers and crew for wliich this was supplied? A. I don't recollect. Q. Have you any idea, in yoiar mind, of the total cost of these articles placed on this ship? A. I think about $:3,000; $3,500 to ,p,000. Q. Does this include ice? A. Yes, sir; that includes ice. Q. And the same character of goods and the same method was adopted in each case for each vessel that you fitted out? A. Yes, sir: in the matter of ice sometimes we could not get enough ice, be- cause they were not fitted up for carrying such a number; therefore, we had to put ice houses on deck; the orders were to carry as much as possible. Q. It is absolutely necessary to carry a great deal of ice? A. The character of these things was such that they needed ice. Q. Were there large refrigerators, or cold-storage rooms? A. Yes, sir; some had cold-storage rooms and some had large refrigerators. 2422 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. After these articles are turned over to the steward, does he make any return? A Yes, sir; when he comes in port, he reports the stores on hand and how the others were used. That you will find on the requisition; there is a list you must fill in [paper handed to General Wilson] . By General Dodge: Q. This is a typewritten statement of the cost of the supplies you furnished up to September 9, §7."').707.49; will you leave this with us? A. Yes, sir, if you wish. By Colonel Skxton: Q. Colonel, your duty was to ship stores on the transports? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the quality and quantities? A. The quality was the very best; the quantities were a good margin over what a ship would require going from here to Europe, on account of the deterioration of the stores in the hot climate. Q. Did any ship return to this port short of supplies? A. No, sir; they always had something over. Q. Who attended the sick on board the transports, do you know? A. I suppose the regiments that had surgeons, they did. I have known stewards to attend the sick. Q. What stewards— the hospital stewards? A. No, sir; the stewards of the ship; they attended them gratuitously. There was nothing in the service requiring them to do so. If a man came to them and said he wanted a cup of gruol, or soup, or tea, the steward would make it lor him. The steward of the BevVni paid money out of his own pocket and paid the cooks and waiters extra money for waiting on the sick; that is his report to me. Q. Complaints have been made that the steward's department on some of these ships was made scandalous by the sale of supplies to the soldiers; do you know anything about this? A. It would be hearsay; 1 know that the soldiers have broken into the storeroom and stolen the ship's supplies. They have had fights with the stewards because they could not get the delicacies they thought they were entitled to. Q. Were you in the civil war? A. Yes, sir. Q. In the hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you visited Camp Wikoff? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did the hospitals in the civil war compare with those? A. No comparison at all; Camp Wikoff was a palace compared to the civil war. Q. What was the character of the food supplied on the transports? A. The very best. Q. Were they the travel rations? A. Travel rations were given to the troops. Q. What was done for the sick? A. The Commissary Department supplied for the sick; they had an abundance of delicacies, jellies, soups, canned articles, lemons, and fruit. Q. What length of time was the ship provided for? A. From thirty to sixty days. Q. Were provisions made in your supplies for the care of the sick? A. No, sir. Q. No special provision for that? A. If an officer should ask the steward for a delicacy he could have gotten it. CHARLES M. SWIFT. 2423 Q. Did you visit any camps during the late war? A I visited Camp Black. Q. How did it impress you? A. As far as the cooking was concerned, not very favorably; the men did not know how to cook: I saw one cook house within the length of this room from the sinks; they had the greatest mess of potatoes and pork in a caldron; they were stewing it, and I said to the cook, "You ought to have boiled those potatoes." He said, " That is the way we have always cooked them."' I was surprised there w( re not more sick in that camp. Q. Do you know whether he was supplied with the cookbook furnished by the Commissary Department? A. I think he was; yes, sir; I think they all were. t^. From whom did you get your supplies? A. From Francis and As(juith and Williams, and those people whom I was con- fident would furnish first-class articles. Q. Were they supplied on bids, or were they direct purchases? A. Lately they have been supplied by bids, where it has been in the last six weeks. Q. Were they purchased at tlie market prices? A. Yes, sir. Q. The lowest price? A. Yes, sir. By General Dodge : Q. Can you give us any other information that we have not asked you about? A. No, sir; except that I think, as Major Summerhayes said, all the officers and employees of the ship should be enlisted men. Q. That is, where the Government owns the ships? A. Yes, sir; the most of these transports were in a very fetid condition that came back. Men would imt go to the lavatories at all; they would stay in their bunks in the most filthy condition everywhere. When spoken to about it, some of the officers would tell the captain of the ship, or the quartermaster, "The war was over now, and the boys wanted to have a good time and he was going to give it to them.*' There was no discipline at all; they ran all over the ship; they even broke into the saloon and would pay no attention to the officers of the vessel; it was wholly the fault of the volunteer officers. By Colonel Sextox: Q. Colonel, you say the chartered ships didn't have officers aboard. Don't you think there should be an officer aboard a transport ship? A. Yes, sir; I do. Q. I know during our war, on the Mississippi the man who had the highest rank had charge of it by geiieral orders from General Grant. The Witness. I think some of j'ou gentlemen might remember the treatment we had at Fort Fisher. If you will recall the condition of those transports and com- pare them with the condition of thesu men; the men were huddled together thicker than they Avere in this war; they were subjected to a great storm off Cape Iiatteras. I agree with Major Summerhayes that we are making the soldiers to-day "featherbed soldiers,"' not giving them enough hard knocks. I would like to suggest that as the Navy has instructors in rifle practice. I think they ought to have instructors in tlie cooking department; they would have saved thousands of dollars and hundreds of men if they had had a good chef to teach the men. Colonel Welch, of the Fifty-sixth Regiment of this State — when I was at Camp Black, I wanted to go to his mess. He said, "We have no mess; all my company officers must eat the same food the company does. We have to go there and we 2424 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN, inspect the food, and if it is bad we will know it." He hired a cook in Buffalo, who taught his company how to cook, and he had the best organized camp at Camp Black. I lielieve in having instructors for the cook. (Seven papers are filed by witness as a part of his testimony and marked '' O. M. S., Exhil)its A to G, respectively, November 25, 1898".) C. M. S.— Exhibit A. Date. Name. Oct. ^2 Oct. 6 Oct. C Sept. 33 July 3 July 3 July 8 July it July 10 Oct. 22 Nov. 5 Nov. It Nov. 11 Nov. 13 Nov. 15 Sept. 16 Sept. 31 Sept. 24 Sept. 39 Nov. 7 Oct. 17 Oct. 25 STEMMERMAN & SANDERS, WHOLESALE GROCERS, HROOKI^YN. Montera R. C. WILLIAMS & CO. Mississippi - Manitoba Total KEEFE & DAVIS. Mississippi ACKER, MERRILL &CONI)lT Mississippi Mohawk Port Victor Mobile Britannia , - Montera Total RAFFERTY & CO. Mississippi Port Victor Tug Ed. Ward Roumanian Berlin Total F. H. LEGOETT & CO. Mobile Berlin do Chester Manitoba Berlin Obdam Total Amount. $199.36 l,968.a5 3,147.2») 5,115.61 9.51.97 .549.81 l,n06..';7 1,134.59 104. 40 539. 98 369. .33 3,594.68 291.. 58 1,16.5.09 63.30 775. 53 1,078.37 3,373.77 .50. 15 1,009.83 12.00 967.68 1,556.77 811. 39 3, 166. 44 6,574.16 Date. Name. Oct. 25 Nov. '.'.i July 11 July 13 July 13 July 13 July 14 July 14 July 16 July 18 .luly 19 July 19 July 19 July 26 July 39 Aug. 3 Aug. 9 Aug. 9 Aug. 24 Sept. 6 Sept. 6 Sept. 14 Soi>t. 15 Sept. 15 Sept. 15 Sept. 17 Sept. 15 Sept. 16 Sept. 33 Sept. 23 Sept. 23 Oct. 17 Oct. 19 Oct. 37 Oct. 39 Sept. 29 Sept. :29 MEYER & LANG. Minne waska Tug McKinley Total ASPELL & CO. Mobile.- Panama Port Victor Obdam , Panama, Acid Berlin Massachxisetts Michigan Roumanian do do- Gypsum King , Manitoba Crypsum King Minnew aska . _ Chester Mobile Minne waska Mexico. - Manitoba . Obdam Chester Mississippi Port Victor Roumanian Berlin Roumanian Michigan . Chester Massachusetts Mexico Michigan _ do Massachusetts Port Victor... Total Amount. $1,. 533. 44 103. 98 1,636.43 743. 43 348. 89 539. 80 351.50 5.60 930.77 566. 79 673. 66 639.23 30. 00 30. 00 782. :?3 ,585. 04 51. (Kl 842. 33 7.53. 8(t 394. 98 .509.31 928. 97 007.99 794. 34 903. ttO 231.84 743. 61 674. 75 59.54 90. 15 643.34 131.85 13. 75 (KHi. 11 016. 66 6.32. 67 3;W.47 339.32 7,5,707.49 C. M. S.— Exhibit B. Steamship Obdam, nteicarcVs departineid, July ,%', 1S98. Articles. Fresh beef pounds Fresh mutton do... Fresh pork ...do... Fresh veal do... Sau.sages do... Livers do... Corn beef. do... (^orn poi-k do . . . Calf 's head and feet sets. Mess 1 leef barrels Mess pork ...do... Fulton Market corn beef do... Quan- tity. 4,000 ],(MK) :50() 3(J0 KKJ 100 .500 200 3 10 4 Articles. Fultoii Market pork Ijarrels. Hams .1,3-poiind. Smoked bacon pounds . Ox tongue _ do . . . Lamb tongue .kits.. Tongues and sounds do.. Bologna pounds. Turkey 12-pound . Chicken and duck pounds. B 1 u e fi sh do... ( "odlish - do . . . Eels do... Quan- tity. 30 20 350 .50 .50 30 CHARLES M. SWIFT. 2425 Steamship Obdam, steivard's department, July 26, 189S — Continued. Articles. Pan-fish pounds.. Cod, salt do.... Maikcrel, No. 1 half barrels. Mackerel, No. 2. barrels. Lard pounds.. Stearine - do.. liuttor, cabin do — Bu ttor, crew - do Chcei-o, American do — ( 'liceso, Swiss do Cheese, " Young America ' ' Eg'gs cases.. Condensed milk pints.. Condensed milk cases.. Flciur barrels. Oatmeal pounds.. Hominy -do — ('orn nieal do — Rier, black do.. Pejjper, white do.. Cream tartar do.. Bicart). soda do.. Nutmegs - do.. Mace, ground, .do.. Mace, whole do. . Celery seed.. do.. Ginger, ground do.. Cloves do.. Cinnamon do.. Baking powder tins Salt sacks Salt boxes Vanilla bottles Lemon do.. Dried herbs - cans Alcohol--.. gallons Hops --- ..sacks Quan- tity. 1-Sl 4 13 ins 11)8 im Kts 34 2 18 14 13 12 6 6 2 13 If) 13 4 4 m 13 34 24 13 Articles. Malt sacks. Cochineal bottles . Gold paint do... Shellac gallons. Ice - tons. Yeast- pounds Chutney dozen Soap, soft - barrels. Repairs: Dining-room chair Glass lamp, staterooms Saloon lamp Radishes bunches. Celery do... Water cress .--do... Mint do... Gooseberries quarts. Blackberries do... Red currants. do . . Spinach barrels. Squash do... Beets do... (ireen peas do... String beans do... Sprouts do... Parsnips ...do... Cauliflowers - Cucumbers dozen Jams - - Marmalade Candied lemon peel Anchovy sauce --- Cayenne pepper Apples.. gallon.^. Horse-radish.. quarts. Figs boxes. Anchovies keg. Kidneys... tins. Ox tails Turtle. Sheep plucks -- Lime juice cases. Apricots. do... Pineapples .do... Assorted fruit .cans. Bouillon .soup ...do... Sardines. do... Mushrooms case . Bath brick Chicory - Kippered herring jars. Liebig's extract beef dozen. Extra ice on deck.. tons. Quan- tity. 4 1 1 5 33 GO 4 1 1 3 1 50 34 24 13 .50 50 25 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 ;i0 (> 4S 48 10 (i 1 13 13 i 34 50 100 ;JS 2 2 48 48 18 1 (> 10 34 1 4 C. M. S.— Exhibit D. Ship stores, steamship Mobile, July 12, 1S9S. Articles. Corned beef 2-pound tins. SoupbouUi ti-pound tins. Soup assorted 3-pouud tins. Salmon 1-pound tins. Lobsters do... Oysters 3-pound tins. Sardines J -bottle tins. Beans, string ..cans. Peas -- cases. Tomatoes, 3 pounds do... Macedonia do . . . Asparagus --- do.-. Mushrooms ..do... Anchovies kegs. Yeast, German pounds. 34 36 48 34 34 24 24 144 6 4 C 1 Potatoes barrels Onions -- do.. Beets - do.. Cabbages - do.. Carrots -- do.. Turnips - do.. Cauliflowers Leeks ...dozen String beans crates Salt beef .barrels Ham pounds Bacon do Butter, cabin tubs Cheese- pounds Lard.. do.. Qvian- tity. .50 3 1 10 3 12 4 12 4 10 300 200 3 80 80 2428 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Sliij) stoi'es, steamship Mobile, July 13, 1S9S — Continued. Articles. Butter, crew pounds Salt lod- do... Beef, fresh do... Mutton do... Pork do... Veal _ do... Lamb _ do... Sausage do... Ox kidneys Oxtails Calves' heads Tripe pounds. Sausapre, bologna do. . . Corned beef ...do... Sheep plucks. Corne;!! ox tongues. barrel. Fresh fish pounds. Cucumbers dozen. Lettuce .do... Toniatoes baskets . Celery bunches . Parsley do . . . Mint .do... Soft soap pounds . Hard .soup do... Babbitt's soap powder do... Sponge cloths dozen . Plate powder do... Matches gross. Brass i)olish tins. Hand scrubbers ("berries boxes. Plums do... Apples crates . Crew sugar pounds. Loaf sugar do... Granulated sugar ..do... Ilaiisins do... Currants do... Prunes .do... Crew tea do... Cabin tea do... Crew coffee ...do... Cabin coffee.. do... Maple sirup gallons . fJabin oatmeal pounds . Crew oatmeal do... Jlioe do... Hominy do... Split beans do... White beans do. . . Soda crackers boxes. Quan- tity. 300 4,205 1,0.50 1)64 239 203 1:J0 00 00 10 50 30 4(K) 30 1 400 G 10 34 24 34 34 100 80 100 4 4 2 10 t) 10 10 10 no 300 343 1.50 135 5(5 100 CO 120 30 100 200 320 50 112 300 4 Articles. Lemolina pounds. Corn flour. do... QuaK:erOats .packages. Cereline pounds. Macaroni .do... Vermicelli do... Tapioca. ...do... Sago do... Pearl barley do . . . Cabin biscuit .barrel. Jam 2-pound tins . Marmalade do... Red currant jelly do... Peel, candied pounds. Olives gallons- Pickles -. ..do... Sauce, Worcestershire bottles. Anchovy sauce do... Tomato sauco ..do... Mustard pounds. Black pepper do... White pepper do . . . Chutney do... Curry powder do... Capers bottles. Essence. .do... Oil salad do... Condensed milk cans . Cfelatine pounds . Baking powder do... Mixed spices do... (Janned apples .cases. J*eaches. do... Peas _ do . . . Apricots do... Pineapples do... Plums do... Vinegar gallons. Vinegar, table bottles . Seed, caraway poiinds. Salt, table tins Salt poimds. Dried apples do . . . Flour (in bags) barrels. Navy biscuits do .. Corned beef 0-pound tins . Lime juice case. Strawberries quarts. Gooseberries do... Bananas. bunches. Ice tons. C. M. S.— Exhibit E. Hhip stores of Manitoba, July 12, and ship stores Michigan, July 14, both vic- tualed the same. Articles. Quan- tity. Articles. Quan- tity. Fre.shbcef ...pounds.. Fresh mutton do Pork loin do Veal .do.... Lamb.. ..do Calves' head 10,513 3,553 333 239 150 13 34 (iO «iO 40 30 100 100 100 100 300 Fresh fish .*... ijounds.. Fowl do Duck do Turkey ..do Rabbits Potatoes (old)... pounds.. Potatoes (new) do Carrots do Turnips (Swedish) do Turnips (white) do Parsnips do Beets .do Onions do Cabbage heads.. Cauliflower. do Yellow squash 4ro 102 106 279 12 fi, (KK) 6 (100 Slieep's head O.K kidneys 400 Oxtail.. 600 Sheepl'vers 300 (^•x tongues ;J00 Corned beef (family) pounds.. Suet do Sausage do Tripe do Salt codfish ...do 100 4a) 500 36 36 CHARLES M. SWIFT. 2429 Ship stores of Manitoba, July 12, and ship .stores Michigan, July U, both vic- tualed the same — Continued. Articles. Leeks bunches. . Spinach pounds.. ( ireen peas do ■ri-int? Deans do — I ;niHsels sprouts do — i 'arsley bunches . . '■riiit -do...- I'leischmann's Yeast (waterproof tins), pounds Ice .--- tons.. Limo ,iuice .- cases. Brooks soap (I case) packages.. Dry soap (lease) pounds.. Toilet soap (10 dozen) do — Hard soap do — 8oft soap do..-. Bath brick ----. Emory powder tins. Plate powder packages . Browu sugar - pounds.. White crushed sugar .- do — Loaf sugar - do — Pi iwdcrod sugar do — Golden sirup 2-pound tins. Molasses - - do... Valencia raisins ,. pounds. Muscatfl raisins do... Sultana raisins - do... (Currants do..- French plums do. . . Cooking prunes do... ('row tea - do... Cabin tea do... Ci-ew coffee do... Cal )in coffee do. . . Chicory do... Baker's cocoa do... Van Houteu cocoa do... Corned beef 6-pound tins . Mutton - ..do... Calves' feet in jelly... 3-pound tins. Corned boef do... Stewed kidney. - do. . . Brawn do... Hare soup do... Mock turtle.. ..do... Ki] ipci-i ■(! herring do. . . Finnan haddie.- do... Salmon 1-pound tins. Lobster. do... Oysters do... Sardines i-pound tins. Rat-tail string beans.. 3-pound tins. French peas 1-pound tins. Tomatoes 3-pound tins. Asparagus do... Lunch tongues Licbig's extract beef. -3-ounce jars. Mess beef barrels. Ham _ .- pounds. Bacon. do... First cabin butter do... Second cabin butter do... Crow butter. do... Grargonzala cheese do... Wiltshire cheese do . . . American cheese. do... Eggs .dozen. NaVy bread No.l, crew pounds. Navy bread No.l, cabin... — do... Flour ( Pillsbury ) barrels . Cabin oatmeal pounds . Crew oatmeal do... Rice -do... Rice. ground do... Hominy - do... Buckwheat do... Split peas do... Green peas, dried do... White beans do . . . Assorted biscuit 3-pound tins. .50 130 100 100 300 48 C 60 3() 13 38 38 m 100 6 4 4 1,120 3.50 ,560 10 3t) .50 112 31 30 112 25 25 113 112 200 1.50 20 10 15 24 24 13 .50 ,34 24 24 24 24 24 48 48 36 36 13 34 36 24 24 12 6 600 300 180 im 4.50 56 200 300 300 KX) 40 300 300 300 20 .56 40 300 28 62 24 Articles. Biscuit, water, thin tins. . Biscuit, soda pounds.. Arrowroot do — Sago - do — Pearl tapioca do — Corn flour, white do — Pearl barley do — Macaroni do — Vermicelli do — Assorted jams Spound tins. . Assorted jams 7-pound tins.. Red currant jelly jars.. Marmalade do — Marmalade 7-pound jars.. Jordan almonds pounds Candied pool do Canton siuges jars. Assorted fruit (preserved) do — Olives -. do — C.& B. pickles, assorted do — Pickles, jars .gallons.. Sauces, assorted : .bottles . . L. & P. Worcestershire sauce.. do Chili sauce do — Catsup do — Anchovy sauce .do — French mustard do — Crew mustard pounds. Ground black popper do — White popper do — Cayenne popper do... Chutney bottles. Curry do... (Papers do — .Telly packets- Flavoring extracts bottles. Cochineal do — Salad oil (B.& G.).. do... Condensed milk (Borden's) — tins. Cocoa and milk do... Leaf gelatine pounds. Baking powder ...tins. Spiced piidding pounds. Apples 1-gallon tins. Pears do... Peaches do... Apricots do... Cider vinegar gallons. Caraway seeds pounds. Nutmeg .-do... Ginger .do... Bi-carb soda do... Cream tartar do... Tartaric acid - do... Marjarene, dried. .packages. Sage, dried. do... Mint, dried ..do... Thyme, dried do... Savory, dried do... Parsley, dried. ...do... Assorted herbs __do... Celery bunches. Lettuce dozen- Radishes do... Cucumbers do . . . Water cress — do... Horse-radish quarts. Spring onions ..bunches. Tomatoes pounds. Apples Cooking apples Oranges (400) crates. Lemons (lOfl) do... Pears (100) ..do... Grapes pounds. Watermelons Rhubarb bunches. Gooseberries^ - boxes. Cherries pounds. Blackberries do... Blackcurrants do... Quan- tity. 10 28 6 10 20 13 28 28 28 36 6 12 34 6 6 10 4 36 6 36 2 24 12 13 6 6 20 34 30 13 3 13 34 12 34 12 3 3 336 34 13 13 6 13 13 13 13 36 3 2 6 6 6 6 13 13 13 13 13 13 13 60 5 5 6 6 13 6 50 300 300 3 1 1 30 30 7.5 30 ;jo 50 50 2430 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT ON WAR WITH SPAIN. Sliip stores of Manitoba, Jiittf 1,2, and sJiip stores Micliirjan, Julij 1.',, l>oth. vic- tualed the sawte—Continued. Articles. Red currants .pounds . - Greengages - do — Blue plums do Almonds .._ do Walnuts do-... Butter nuts do Quan- tity. Articles. Pecan nuts pounds. Hazcluats do.. Figs do... Dates ..do.-. Salt ( cooking) 14-pound sacks . Fine table salt boxes. Quan- tity. 10 10 50 63 20 36 C. M. S.— Exhibit F. Ship stores — Berlin, Jidy 11. Article. Fresh beef pounds.. Fresh mutton do — Fresh pork do — Corned beef.family 1 do — Pork bellies ...do ... Veal do — Sau.sages do Liver do.... Beef kidneys Calves' heads - Calves' feet — Beef, mess. barrels.. Pork, mess do — Ham.. pounds.. Bacon. - do — Ox tongues.. — Bologna pounds.. Turkejr ...do — Fresh iish do — Lobsters Boneless cod pounds.. Lard do .... No. 1 mackerel | barrels . No. 3 mackerel do — Butter, crew pounds.. Butter, cabin do — American cheese, cabin do — American cheese, crew _ do — Swiss cheese do Eggs dozen Condensed milk.. gallons.. Condensed milk (1-lb. tins).. dozen.. Flour barrels . . Oatuieal pounds . . Hominy. do — Rice - do... Farina do — Tapioca do — Sago do... Cornstarch do — Macaroni.- boxes Vermicelli do — Spaghetti do Gelatine dozen . . White beans bushels Split peas do — Green peas crates. Pilot bread, No. 1, cabin barrels Pilot bread. No. 2, crew do . . . Ginger snaps do — Soda crackers boxes. Barley - - barrels . Arrowroot pounds. Potatoes barrels- Carrots do... Turnips do... Beets do... Cabbage lieads. Onions barrels. Leeks bunches. . Garlic strings Shallots ....peck Parsley ...bunches 6,174 1,500 356 700 106 613 130 170 34 6 24 13 6 755 350 13 ;so 30() 40f) 13 200 50 3 3 650 300 50 150 30 300 60 40 .50 600 100 483 .50 3.5 25 20 3 3 1 3 6 1 3 Article. 4 1 300 3 50 3 1 30 Mint - bunches. Sage do.... Pumpkins. Heads lettuce Tomatoes 3-pound tins. Tomatoes 1-gallon tins . Lima beans - tins. Green peas do. . . String beans do — Sugar corn . . do... Succotash do... Okra do... Asparagus .do... Scpiash do . . . Sardines do .. Salmon — do... Lobster do... Oysters do. . Cranberry sauce do. . . Mushrooms. — do... Apples - 1-gallon tins. Peaches do... Pears _ do... Apricots do. _ . Dried apricots. cases. Prunes (cooking) do... Dried apples. ...do... Currant jelly. ...6-pound .jars. Jam - tins . Vinegai-, crew gallons . Vinegar, cabin ...bottles. Pickles, crew .-. kegs. ChowcLow bottles. Gherkins do... White onions... do... Mixed pickles do... Horse radish do... Olives 10-gallon kegs. Capers - bottles. Tomato catsup ...do. . Worcestersshire, L. & P do... Curry do... Olive oil - gallons. Table raisins i-box . Cooking raisins pounds. Currants do... Lemon peel do... Orange peel do... Royal baking powder tins. Allspice, whole pounds. Allspice, ground do... Mace do... Cinnamon, ground do. . . Cinnamon, whole do... Ginger.. do... Cloves, whole do... Cloves, ground do... Celery seed. do... Bicarb, of soda do... Cream tartar .do... Hops do... Malt do.. Vanilla, extract bottles Quan- tity. 6 12 18 36 48 24 48 48 48 48 21 34 48 2i 48 24 24 24 13 24 24 48 48 48 1 2 2 3 24 50 36 3 16 16 16 73 6 3 6 12 13 13 4 3 150 100 6 8 34 HENRY P. KIRKMAN 2431 Ship stores— Berlin, July i7— Continued. Articles. Lemon, extract bottles. Fleisfhmanu's yeast pounds. Salt (cooking) 34-pound Lag. Salt (table) boxes. Mustard, crew pounds. Mnstard, cabin do . - . Fepper, bl.ick do... Pepper, white. - do... Pei)per, cayenne. ..do... I'owdored sngar pounds . Loaf sugar - do... Oranulated sugar _ . . do . _ . Brown sugar do... Molasses gallons. Maple sirup .do . . . Tca.iabin chests. Tea.crew .do... Coffee. cabin pounds. Coffee, crow - - do. . . Chicory do... Quan- tity. 13 30 o r> •?A 10 34 13 1 35 m) 1.043 ;i6i 300 200 50 Articles. Quan- tity. Lime .juice cases. Ice tons- Oranges crates. Lemons do... Bananas bunches. Watermelons Musk melons — Blackberries tpiarts. Green corn — ears Tomatoes - cases Radishes bunches Watercress baskets Brown soap - — pounds Sal soda do . . Toilet soap, 3 to box boxes Sapolio -- .do.. Toilet pai)er .- do.. Safety matches gross Sperm oil - barrel 13 13 36 3(5 2 36 6 160 135 36 1 1 3 New York, November 25, ISOS. TESTIMONY OF HENRY P. KIRKHAM. Mr. Henry P. Kirkii.sm, upon ru.iuost, aiipeared l)efore the commission, and, having no objection, was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Wilson: <^. Please give us your name, address, and business. A. Henry P. Kirkhaiu, New York City, shipwright. Q. You came here at the suggestion of Major Summerhayes. I am happy to see you. What particular duty did you have in connection with this work, under him or with him';' A. Under him entirely. Q. What was your duty? A. The fitting of the transports, and I was appointed by the Assistant Secretary of War as one of the members of the board of survey. Q. Will you state exactly what you had to do in connection with fitting out these transports? A. My orders were to go on board and make all repairs and work out the num- ber of troops a ship could carry, according to the space, etc. Q. And you superintended the bunks? A. When we came to take charge of this, by Major Summerhayes's orders, I com- menced to put up the hammocks. Previous to that, the ships were furnished with standee berths. Q. What was the character of the work yon had to perform? A. These hammock stanchions were erected from deck to deck and consisted of three by four spruce, smooth lumber, to whicli were attached two hammock hooks, or four for each set of hammocks, one above the other, spaced according to the height of the deck in which they were placed: putting into the hatchways suitable stairways, with handrails, etc.; making proper sanitary arrangements for lavatories, washtubs, closets, etc.; also the fitting up for the horses and animals, spacing and directing proper accommodations for them. Q. You said that the hammock hooks were one above the other. How many deep were those hammocks placed between decks? A. Two. Q. One under the other? A. Yes, sir. 2432 INVESTIGATION OV CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. By General Dodge: Q. Never more? A. No, sir. By Colonel Sexton: Q. In the early part you put in wooden bunks? A. No, sir. By General Wilson : Q. How far was the upper hammock from the floor? A. On account of the space between the fore and aft of the ship, in the place of stanchions the hook was placed in some cases, say, 18 inches from the deck; the bottom hook wovild be about the same, 2 feet. Q. Any difficulty in getting in? A. No, sir. Q. The one al)ove, how would lie get in? A. It sags sufficiently down; he can strike it away any distance he wants to. By General Dodge: Q. How many, comparatively, between the bunks and hammocks— how many more can you put in the bunks than the hammocks? A. I could get more in the hammocks than bunks. These hammocks are removed during the day, allowing a large space for the men to move around, a 12-foot space. Q. Then you would have a better circulation of air? A. Yes, sir. Then I also put in a large system of Sturtevant blowers, and by means of steam connection, which worked the fans, it sent the air down into the compartment where the men were stowed, and along there were ducts of galvan- ized iron— registers— the same as we put in our homes, that can be shut off or opened. Q. Did it blow the wind in or out? A. The fresh air in: and we erected what you call a jet for salt air, and as the air went over the salt water it carried it down. Q. Did you keep that going all night? A. Yes, sir. Q. That would give them colds? A. The ducts were so arranged that it would not strike the men. By Colonel Sexton: Q. We have had testimony that the air was fetid. A. In every compartment, as usual, in every ship there are two sets of venti- lators. These are turned to the wind and the air is passed down one and the bad air is taken up the other. These transports that the Government bought— we did business many years before tor that line. The Government demanded that those ships should be ventilated in a certain way for carrying live stock, and tlie space is regulated by rules of the Agricultural Department, in which they insist that these ventilators shall be placed in a certain way, affording air for the live stock. If you can ventilate live stock, with the steam and lieat from the bodies of these animals, surely there must be plenty of ventilation fur men. Q. We have testimony from intelligent citizens to the contrary. A. These chartered transports do not require the amount of ventilation that the larger ships do on account of having larger decks; the American ship is built higher between decks and .she doesn't need it. and as the men were carried there between decks and the next deck below that, in all cases ventilation was supplied and we had a great many exhaust fans to send the air out. Q. I understand your duties under Major Summerhayes, who was responsible for everything, was putting m the hammocks, fitting ventilators, and arranging for anything in connection with the ship excepting supplies? STEWARD PRESTON (". KING. 2433 A. Yes, sir. Q. Before you reported to the IMajor, did you always satisfy yourself that everything was in the best of condition, as far as a human being could do it? A. I had to report to Major Suuimcrhayes, and he was to direct what was to be done. Q. And then carry out his orders strictly? A. Yes, sir. Q, Did you ever send one of these ships to sea, so far as your portion was concerned, wnen you were not satisfied with her condition? A. Where I was nut satisfied with the condition? Well, yes, sir; I think I would say they could be better. They were not perfect. Q. Why were they not better? A. There was not time. The Major would order me to be on duty. Sometimes 1 would be all night long at the yard, and he would be there and took the plans as we got them; and then the men had to be on hand all times, nights and Sundays. Q. Then time only was the reason? A. Yes, sir. It could not be conducted in the mercantile service of New York better; and that is saying a good deal. We did the business of all the lines in New York— the White Star, the Transatlantic, the CompagnieGeneraleTrausatlantique, Wilson, Cunard— all the lines. We fitted them out. By General D<^dge: Q. Have you anything to suggest, then, where we have not (luestloned you? We want to know all about them. We are not experts. A. I don't think it could be done better again than it was this time— with such fine men as Colonel Kimball and Major Summerhayes. Q. There is a good deal of complaint about the transports and their crowded condition. Still, after what you say, in going over they did not suffer? A. The trip was too short. They may have suffered in Tampa with the men on the ship and without a particle of air stirring, without any circulation whatever, the same as we would sutler if shut up in a room in New York. By Colonel Sexton: Q. The great trouble was the troops were kept on the boats at Tampa? A. Yes, sir. The United States Government prohibits us from loading live stock alongside piers in summer time in New York, and the ship is supposed to come to anchor in the river, and we are allowed to load there early in the morn- ing before the heat of the sun; that is the regulation of the Government with live stock. By General McCooK: Q. When did that law come into force? A. About six or eight years ago. Washington, D. C. , November .25, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF STEWARD PRESTON C. KING. Steward Preston C. King having no objection to being sworn, was thereupon duly sworn, and testified as follows: By Colonel Denby: Q. Please give your name and address. A. Preston C. King, Takoma Park, D. C. Q. Were you in the Army during the recent war? 7833— VOL. () — -3 2434 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN A. Yes, sir. Q. In what capacity? A. Hospital steward. Q. What regiment where yon attached to? A. First District of Columbia Volunteers. Q. Did you know Henry A. Dobson? A. Yes, sir. Q. He was sergeant of Company D? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where were you at the time the regiment reached Montauk? A. The regiment came in separate detachments. Two battalions came ahead, the Second and Third battalions, the First Battalion arriving about two days later. I was with the First Battalion. When we arrived, the Second and Third battalions were in detention camp, and we went into detention camp, and three days later joined them in the permanent camp. Q. Was Dobson with you in the camp? A. No, sir; Dr. Pyles treated the First Battalion, and he was treated by other surgeons, being in one of the other battalions. Q. You were in the First Battalion? A. Yes, sir. Q. Dobson was not in that battalion? A. No, sir. Q. Did you see him during your stay at Montauk? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you see him? A. In the camp. Q. Did you at any time see Mrs. Dobson, his mother? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you state what, if anything, she said to yoiT about having the boy moved? A. As was the custom, I used to go to the hospital and see the boys who were sick there. I knew most of them. On this day I was there seeing the boys and I saw Dobson. His mother was with him. She seemed to be in a peck of trouble. She said she was going to take her boy with her. Q. Was Dobson on a cot? A. He was on a cot, as I suppose it would be called. It was one of the cots ordi- narily used in the hospital. I could not tell the wai'd or number of the cot on which he was located. Q. That was at the general hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. He was there like any other patient? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did he seem to be cared for? A. As far as I could see, the same as a majority of them. I did not see any difference. Q. State what he said to you. A. The talk was with Mrs. Dobson. She said she was going to take her boy away from the hospital and wanted me to help her to get him away. She also said she wanted to go on the transport with him. She wished me to use what influence I could to see that she accompanied him on the transport. 1 went to see the surgeon in charge Q. Who was he? A. I can not tell you his name. He said it was not customary to allow the par- ents to accompany the boys, as that would overrun the transports with the parents. He said he would do what he could. I told Mrs. Dobson. I told her also where she could get the clothing. DK. ]\r. O. TERRY. 2435 Q. Was that all that took place? A. That was all that took j)lace. Q. You were not there when the hoy was luovedV A. No, sir. Q. You wish to make any further statement, Mr. King, about the fact of your having been summoned here? A. Yes: I would like to have that rectified. The statement in the Star read that I had been (^u.'^moned here on Tuesday and failed to appear. That is the sum and substance of it. But I wish to say I have never been summoned. I had been requested to come here by Dr. Cox, and when I came I saw Secretary Weightman Q. You simply wish to state that you were not summoned? We do not care about hearsay evidence. A. I came voluntarily when I was asked. Mr. Weightman said yesterday that you would like to see me between 10 and 11 o'clock to-day. q. Is there anything further that you wish to state? A. No, sir; that is all. Q. Is that all you know about the case? A. That is all I know about the case. New York, November 26, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF DR. M. 0. TERRY. Dr. M. O. Tekky. upon reciuest, appeared bi'fore the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Wilson: Q. Please give your full name, your official title, if any, and your present address. A. M. O. Terry, Utica, N. Y., surgeon-general of the State of New York. Q. I would like to ask you, if agreeable to his excellency the governor of the State, if we may have your report which you presented to him, to be considered as part of your testimony? A. Yes, sir; certainly. By Dr. Conner: Q. Please tell us where, in your official or other capacity, you were during the war with Spain, so far as relates to camps and hospitals. A. At Porto Rico and Camp Black, Camp Townsend, Camp Alger, Cliicka- mauga, Fernandina, -lacksonville. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us what you may have to say with reference to Camp Alger, Camp Thomas, Tampa, Fernandina, and Jacksonville? You were at Tampa, were you? A. No, sir; I was not. Q. Well, at Fernandina and Jacksonville? Take up the Florida camps together and then take up the Porto Rico matter a little later and give in your own way what the conditions were, what your conclusions were, what had been, why it had been, etc. A. Good, bad, and indifferent? Q. Good, bad, and indifferent. A. I first ascertained the location of the New York troops. I might say, aj a preliminary, that I was sent South on the original reiiuest of the adjutant-general. Q. Adjutant-general of the State of New York? A. Yes, sir; owing to the great number of telegrams being sent him relative to the reported neglect and bad condition of the New York troops. I received these 243G INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. instruction at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel within a few hours of my return from Porto Rico. I started that evening for Washington and visited, the following day , Camp Alger and Camp Loring. Q. (jive the dates, as far as you can — approximate dates. A. The 20th of August. Knowing Major Briggs, of the Sixty-fifth Regiment, I wen'., to him in the first instance and I made a tour of the sinks. He seemed highly gratified I should come iipon him without any notification, and he had good reason to feel so, because the sinks were thoroughly policed in a way above criticism. The system is something like this: They were tinder guard, and each man was obliged to use the spade after using the sink, and as a consetiuence you could see nothing about tlie sinks objectionable, and flies had no o])portunity of putting in their deadly work, which was the case in every camp I visited but this one. So much for the sinks. The next ciuestion which was brought to my notice was the lack of medical supplies, or, I might say, remedies, which should be pro- vided to the surgeons at the regimental hospitals, which is not alloweil ut the camp. The reason given for the need of this branch of the hospital by the surgeon in charge was that there was a preliminary stage which they tli()Ught it was neces- sary to diagnose the cases coming down, as to whether or not they were malaria, which was prevailing at that time, and which is normal to the climate, or typhoid, or the initiatory state of those diseases, a chill usually followed by fever, a tem- perature ranging from 104 to 105 or 106. Major Briggs, who was, by the way, the sanitary inspector of the camp, informed me that within three days, under tlie use of strong remedies used for the purpose of breaking this difficulty up, quinine, etc. , the men would often regain their feet and resume their duties. Q. Major Briggs, whom you speak of — is he Dr. Briggs? A. Yes, sir. Q. The surgeon of the regiment? A. Yes, sir; Surgeon- Major Briggs. Dr. Briggs said he was unable to get cer- tain remedies, very necessary to give these men during this interval, by which he was able to diagnose t1ie cases; that he had made application, I think, for fully three weeks without being able to obtain them. The doctor, I Ijelieve, is now out of the service, so the Government can't do anything with him. By General Wilson: Q. They wouldn't do anything to him, anyway. A. He is a very nice man, very conscientious, and wouldn't do anything to criticise the service whatever. I was at the first meeting of the board api)oiuted by the Surgeon-General of the Army, at which time Major Briggs was on the stantl, the point being to ascertain the cause of typhoid fever. By Dr. Conner: Q. Yes. I know about that. A. There was no definite conclusion arrived at at that time. After jiroving the source of the. milk supply, vegetables, etc., the meeting adjourned. After this I asked the Majorifhecouldlocate the typhoidfever, andhesaidhe thought he could. We took a carriage and went over to Fairfax Manor. He there showed me a small box reservoir, possibly 2 feet square, and in juxtaposition to it had been built one of twice the length and of about the same depth. The odor from this clear water was villainous, as that of a dead animal on a hot day. Tiie doctor said the men were obliged to drink this when they were located in this camp; that his regiment and the Vermont regiment were located near this spring. I asked him if he had had the water analyzed, and he said he had been unable to obtain an analysis. I am speaking of that water. I took a direct line to the house. It was an old i)lace, over oOO years old, I am told, 50 feet long, possibly, with an elevation of G feet, and that same terrible odor prevailed about tike house. An old gentle- DR. M. O. TERRY. 2437 iiuui met us ou the steps, and I asked him if he had ever had any sickness there, and he said '' Never,"' That was a great surprise to me. There was a well near the house, and I asked the Major why they couldn't have this water, if it was all right. He said ho thought it was all right, but they wouldn't allow them to use it. He stated that on Tuesday, in fact — Tuesday of the week I was there — he had sent a specimen of the water to Washington to the Army Museum, 1 believe, of which Major Smart was the head. In fact, he nad carried it there, requesting that he be telephoned to the next day as to the condition of this water. This was Saturday, and he hadn't heard from thejn yet. On my return that evening from Dunn-Loring I visited the Surgeon- General at his home. By the way. I had taken a list of the things that the Sixty- fifth needed, given me by Dr. Briggs, and I asked the General why it was that the Major couldn't obtain an analysis of the water, stating what I have just men- tioned. He appeared to be very much astounded over it and made a note of it, also in regard to the remedies needed at the regimental hospital. Of course I said to liim, "I understand j-ou don't require any regimental hospital, which I think is a mistake; a mistake because I think the surgeon connected with the regiment has that personal feeling for the men by which he would naturally give more immediate attention to the regiment than those detailed to a division hospital." They needed also two tents besides the remedies. I presented this requisition to the Surgeon-General, and I will say this to his credit, that on my return, about ten days later. I found on my deslc in Utica the report of a most thorough investi- gation in regard to my charges, if charges they might be called. In that report I found two things. One was that the surgeon — or the medical officer, if you wish — had more fear in reference to what the Government might do for his saying any- thing outside the line of the law than he had of bullets, for when this Major Briggs, I believe, or the officers connected with his regiment were asked about this requisition which I have presented, they equivocated and evidently showed fear that something would Ijo done to them. I .speak in reference to this report. The Surgeon-General mentioned in this report to me that of course I probably knew that regimental hospitals were not allowed by the Government. The posi- tion of sanitary inspector of C;unp Alger seemed to be one which was very useful so far as the camp was concerned. By General Wilson: Q. May I interrupt 3'ou with a question as to that report, and ask what the result of the analysis of the water was? You stated Dr. Smart was to make an analj'sis of the water and that the surgeon had sent a copy of the report within ten days. Was there anything in regard to the analysis of the water? A. Oh. he made no mention of that that I recollect. If there are any questions in regard to Camp Alger or Dunn-Loring, I Avould he glad to answer them. Q. In what condition did you find the division hospital at Camp Alger, espe- cially the one at Dunn-Loring? A. I should consider the camji overcrowded. Q. Hov/ many men were in a tent? A, I am unable to say about that. My trip, as I told you, was more to investi- gate in regard to the New Y^ork troops than anything else, but of course I don't suppose you can attend to typhoid fever in camps as j-qu can in a hospital in New York or other large cities. Of course the treatment now is largely to keep their temperature down, and there is no question but that there was not sufficient sponging and washing to keep down the temperatures of those men, I should say. I walked through, and I saw men there in laging fevers, with yellow skin, parched tongue, but we don't expect the men could be sponged off every two hours or every three hours or even every six hours through the daj^ and night. Q. They ought to have it: they used to get it. 2438 INVESTIGATION OF OONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Very good; then you can consider it criticism. Q. As respects the tyi)hoid fever, the medication is a matter of very small importance; I think yon will agree with me in regard to that? A. Well, I miist decline to agree with that, because I think it is an important factor together with keeping the temperature down. Q. As you observed the hospital, especially the Dunn-Loring one, you say it was overcrowded, but yet you are not able to say to what extent and whether it was reallj- overcrowded under Army regulations. Do you know what is allowed, what number of sick in a hospital tent? A. The nitmber of sick in a hospital tent? Q. Yes; what is the allowed numljer of sick to be put in a hospital tent? A. I don't know, but I know what the arrangement would be down in Jackson- ville. They were making tents for specially sick tj-phoid cases, and there were only four in a tent. Q. The regulation allowance is six? A. Yes, sir. Q. The medicines yon speak of as being short, were they those which were more essential, or particularly drugs that were wanted for s])ecial purposes, or ilo you know? A. They were remedies that were needed mostly for these fevers, don't you see, the chill and fever stage. I dirominent man in connection with medical officers? A, He is a very large man — a magnificent-looking man. Q. Have you anything else. Doctor, to offer witli reierence to the observed faults or observed neglects or observed deficiencies.-' We want to get at the bad things; we don't care so much about the good, A, I don't like to speak of this beautiful hospital ship, the Relief : I don't make any criticism particularly. Q. Please tell us what you observed on the Relief. A. Oh, there were things that I noticed. One was that I couldn't very well help listening to 1 he conversation of these assistant surgeons who had charge of the wards. There seemed to be no definite plan of treatment coming from a com- mon head. What the trouble was I don't know, but it was very evident each sur- geon carried out his own ideas, which didn't seem to be the proper thing. I simply bring this to your notice casually. The second thing that struck me as being exceedingly irregular, in view of the fact that on the ship was Col. Nicholas Senn, who we probably all know is one of the greatest living surgeons, was this: A man had a common fracture of the right femur; Colonel Senn was invited to the oper- ation, but he didn't go. Q. Why not, if you know? A. I asked him why he didn't go to the operation, and he said it was because he hadn't been consulted as to wliether that operation sliouhl be done. The operation was done by a young surgeon, don't you see, and in view of the fact it was done only two days before Yv'e landed in New York, there being no urgent symptoms. Colonel Senn thought it was a very improper thing to do. Q. And so expressed himself to you? A. Yes, sir: he expressed himself so to me. I don't think Colonel Senn would care to speak of it. Q. Who was the surgeon in charge? A. Major Torney was in charge of the hospital ship. I wish Colonel Senn had been invited and had consented to come before this board. C^. He has been l)efore this lioard. We examined him and we got a full state- ment from him— not in reference to this matter, it being rather personal and ethical than anything else. He w\as a visitor on the ship; he was there by the grace of the commanding officer of the ship and traveling under orders. A. I supposed he was there by authority of the Surgeon-General. I was thei'e by the grace of the Surgeon- General; also that means the Government, does it not? I didn't understand that an officer can go aboard ship without the grace of the Government, and of course that means the Surgeon-General. 1 am giving you this and I don't think it is a personal matter at all, for I was there as a guest. Q. Don't misunderstand me. I am simply speaking of the fact that Dr. Senn was probal)ly there under orders, as you yourself were, and therefore under a per- mit granted, and as such he was a passenger on that ship. He iiad no authority nor right to be there, and while it might have been a breach of ethics, as I think it was. not to ask him to examine the case and consult iipon the matter, at the same time he had no right. A. Perhaps it would be just as well if I hadn't said that. then. Q. Is there anything else, Doctor? A. No, sir. 1 have said much more than 1 expected to say when I came before you. DR. M. O. TERRY. 2445 By General Wilson: Q. Would the custom of the service be that with a physician of Dr. Senn's standing, being a passenger on that ship, his suggestions would have been heeded, if he had made any? Dr. Conner. If I had been in charge of the case I would certainly have asked Dr. Senn's opinion and Dr. Terry's opinion without any question. Whether I should have ac«joi:*"ed their opinions is another matter: that is an individual thing. The Witness. In view of the eminence of Dr. Senn, I think it should have been done. By Captain Howell: Q. Doctor, you are an expert and were sent to these camps to discover what was the cause of the complaints that had been made, and we are a commissi(ni that is trying to find out all about these irregularities and who is to blame for them. From your investigation and from your knowledge of what you saw, were those irregularities that have been testified to by various witnesses in regard to various camps— were they chargeable to the Surgeon-General for not providing medicine, not giving suitable instruction, or are they chargeable to the men who didn't carry out his orders in regard to the sinks and in regard to proper food, etc.? Who is to blame, in your opinion? A. I can find no instrnctions in regard to proper policing of sinks. When I say proper policing, I mean as I have spoken in reference to Camp Alger. That is the answer to one question. In reference to the Surgeon-General, as I remarked before, I think his instructions, on general principles, were all right and we have had a very good medical department; but had there been a sanitary inspector for each camj), and i^ossibly one under the Surgeon-General, and had he been held responsible for everything pertaining to the health of the soldiers, it is quite prob- able that these suggestions and these circulars would have been of more use. Q. In other words, they didn't pay enough attention to the orders given them, and you think they ought to have been checked uj)? A. A general can't sit in his tent and write circulars; neither can a secretary know by sending out the circulars that the work will lie done. I think someone should have been sent out to see that those orders were carried out, and in that way if you forced the medical officer to carry out his instructions, the probability is these instructions would be brought to the notice of the commanding officers, and in that way you would have a harmonious work in which both would do their duty. Q. Still, you think there were a good many physicians, as on the Relief there, that didn't observe proper regulations? A. I think, in regard to the Relief, they were young men and they probably did do the best they could; I am not saying they didn't do the very best they could; but I think there should have been a uniform treatment and some treatment under a given head. Q. I want to ask you about typhoid fever. Do you think there was any differ- ence in regard to the spread of typhoid fever in State camps and in the United States camps? Didn't you have a great deal of typhoid fever in Camp Black? A. I don't think the record shows there was a great deal of typhoid fever there. Q. There was some, though? A. I think there was; but I think very few deaths; and this great breaking out of typhoid has been pretty well located at Chickamauga. Q. You think that the typhoid fever originated at Chickamauga? A. That is my judgment; I may be mistaken, but that is my judgment. 2446 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. New Yokk, November :J«;, IS'JS. TESTIMONY OF MRS. L. W. aUINTARD. Mrs. L. W. QuiNTARD, upon request, appeiired ])i'fore the commission, and, hav- ing no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q, Kindly give us your full name and address, madam. A. My name is Mrs. L. W. Quintard. Q. You were at Camp Wikoff a jjortion of the time when that camp was in existenceV A. Yes, sir. Q. For how long? A. I was there from August 17 until September 15. Q. In what capacity? A. I went down in chai'ge of the nurses. Q. At what hospital were your personal services rendered, or had you general charge of the nurses at all the hospitals? A. At the general hospital and the division hospitals. I was not supi>osed to have anything to do with the detention hospital. Q. How many trained female nurses did you have at Camp Wikoff? A. During the whole time I think I had about 150: I can't be sure of the number. Q. Did you have enough for the needs of the hospitals that were under 5'our direction? A. Not at first. Q. Was that occasioned by any difficulty in securing them, or was it indiffer- ence on the part oi the commanding officer, or what was the cause of the insuffi- ciency? A. At first they didnt seem to think we were going to re(iuire more than 50 nurses: that was to be the outside number, and there was so much difficulty about us going down there, and the nurses had waited so long, that it was a little hard at first to get even that number together. Q. What was the expectation as to the number of sick who would require attention? A. I never heard that spoken of. They came down in such numbers that I think there were a great many more than they anticipated at first. Q. The calculations were at fault as to the number? A. Yes, sir. C^. How many sick men were under the charge of each niirse on the average, say? A. Well, at first I only had enough nurses to put two in every ward, and I tliinli that there must have been frimi 40 to 50 patients at the same time in a ward. Q. To what extent were the efforts of the nurses reenforcedby the Hospital Corps, the soldiers who were detailed in the Hospital Cordis; were they efficient or otherwise? A. They were, as a rule, very inefficient. Q. They had no pi'evious training for the work? ^ A. Absolutely none, with the exception of a few. Q. How did they serve as orderlies for the nurses? Were they ready and will- ing to do the drudgerj' of the wards under the nurses? A. In a great many cases they were. Q. So they were not only inefficient but unwilling? A. In a great many instances. Q. How were these men secured, do you know? Were they secured by detail? MRS. L. W. QUINTARD. 2447 A. By detail. Q. After the men arrived in camp, or did they belong to a hospital corps detailed prior to their arrival in camp: do you know that? A. That I don't know. Q. Did you notice any difference between the men who were detailed from the regiments of the Regular Army and those made up from the volunteer regiments? A. I didn't know the difference, whether they were volunteers or Regular Army men. Q. What was the character, as to (luantity, quality, and sufficiency, of the hos- pital supplies? And when I say that I mean furniture and bed linen, and the con- veniences for caring for the sick, and all that. A. We had very little at first. That, I think, was the fault of transportation. It was not any unwillingness we should have it, but we simply couldn't get it there. Latterly we had everything we required. Q. There was no lack on the part of the ability of the Medical Department to furnish these things, was there? A. They couldn't furnish them if they were not on the ground. Q. You mean to furnish them for transportation at this end? A. No, sir; they told us we C(jukl have everything we wanted. The willingness was there, but we didn't get the things. Q. The difficulty was either in transporting them from here to Montauk or in opening the cars and having them delivered after the cars arrived there? A. Yes, sir. Q. If there was delay in securing these things, then in your judgment it was the fault of the Quartermaster's Department in the matter of transportation rather than in the Medical Department in furnishing what was needed? A. That I don't know. I know I didn't get the things. Q. Did you visit all the wards of the general and division hospitals every day? A. Not the division hospitals; some of those hospitals were three-quarters of a mile away, and I had no conveyance. We had a nurse in charge of each one. The other hospitals, I tried to get into every ward at least once a day, but I had 43 wards at one time. Q. What was the character of the services rendered by the nurses in these wards; good or otherwise? A. Excellent; I can't say enough about the service they rendered. Q. What was the character of the medical attendance rendered by the surgeons in charge? A. As a rule I should think it was good, very good, judging of what I know of the hospital work. Q. Was there any inefficiency or inattention or incapacity on the part of the medical men, so far as you observed their conduct and attention? A. That is rather a leading question for me to answer. Q. I know, but that is tlie kind of infi)rniation we want. A. I don't feel competent to judge of tlie doctors' work, and in such an immense work as that I couldn't keei) up with the derails. Q. And yet with your experience you have a pretty good idea <>f whether a doc- tor is a doctor or not? A. Well, I think some of them were very poor, i shouldn't care to say who. Q. Well, in general, were they officers who had been in the service and were accustomed to the service, or were they those who had been hired in the emer- gency? A. I am speaking of the contract doctors, the young contract doctors. Q. Do you know to what extent the contract doctors were examined prior to their apjiointment? Do you know anything about that? A. I know nothing about that. 2448 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. What was the general character of the sickness, the diseases from which the men were snft'ering? A. Typhoid fever, luakuia, sometimes a complication of both, and a few cases we had of imeumonia, and a few cases of diphtheria; measles, very few; but it was nearly all malaria and typhoid fever. Q. Did yon have the facilities for caring for typhoid-fever patients in the way that is recognized as proper? A. I think as well as it possibly could have been under the circumstances in a camp hospital. Q. What is your experience as to the treatment of typhoid: is a hospital tent as good as an inclosed ward? A. Better, if the weather is favorable. Q, Well, under the conditions as they existed at Montauk, what would be your opinion as to that; that they were better off under canvas than they would have been in a ward in an inclosed hospital? A. Decidedly. I think the great lack there was in not taking the typhoid cases and placing them in wards by themselves. The patients were too mixed up; there was no selection made at all. Q. That would have simplified the nursing and increased the efficiency? A. Yes, and the safety of other patients. Q. Have you knowledge of any individual cases of patients who were neglected either as to nursing or as to medical attendance? A. No, I have not; I can"t say we did. I don't think they had as much nursing as we could have given them, as good care as we might have given if we had had more nurses in the beginning; but after the 1st of September, when we had plenty of nurses, I think our sick patients had every attention. Q. Well, was the lack of nurses at the beginning one of those unavoidable things which it is difficult to obviate, or could it have been obviated by energy and persistency on the part of the Medical Department? A. It certainly could. It was very difficult for us to get in there at all. I received my appointment from Washington about the 1st of August and I didn't get down there until the IMth of August. We had nurses waiting, paying their board here in the cit}% waiting to go down. On the loth I went down to see why we were not sent for, and they told us we Avould be down in about two weeks. Of course we all realize what those two weeks were from the 14th of August to the 13th of September. By Dr. Conner: Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us who it was who told you that you wouldn't be wanted or gave you to understand you wouldn't be wanted for two weeks? A. Colonel Forwood. C^. Who kept you away as long as you were kept away? A. I was told to report in one week; they finally sent for us. Q. You received no communication from him that you were not needed? A. No, sir. Q. You went on the 17th and reported for duty? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you reported for duty, at that time, was there a very considerable number of patients in the wards, or were the wards practically empty? A. I think there were between 600 and 700 patients. Q. They had been accumulating there during a period of how long? A. The first patient, I think, went down about the 1st of August. Q. Hardly as soon as that, I think. A. Well, I don't know exactly. Q. I want you, Mrs. (^uintard, if you please, to tell us when these wards were. MRS. L. W. QUINTARD. 2449 as you have stated, turned over practically to the care of a single nurse, with how many attendants — two, four, or how many? A. You mean the hosijital attendants? Q. Yes. A. Sometimes two in the day and two at night. That was only for a fe-v days. Q. A few days after the 17th only? A. Yes, sir. Q. And during that time do you think it possible for any one nurse with that amount of assistance to properly care for forty or fifty seriously ill men? A. No, sir. We hadn't forty or fifty seriously ill in the wai'ds. There were forty or fifty in the wards, but 1 couldn't tell you the proportion that was seri- ously ill, but they were not all. Q. Was it such a proportion that they could not be i^roperly cared for by the nursing force available? A. It certainly was. Q. When you arrived there did you find that hospital properly provided with those appliances in the way of commodes, bedpans, hot-water bottles, and every- thing that was I'equired for the proper care of the sick? A. Well, for the number of tents they had at that time the commodes were enough. There was about one basin for each ward, and they had to use that for bathing and all purposes. There wasn't a hot- water bottle there that I could find. We all toolc hot- water bottles with us. There wasn't a hypodermic syringe in the place. There wasn't a clinical thermometer to be found. Q. Ill the hospital? A. In the hospital. Q. How soon were these deficiencies made up? A. They got some clinical thermometers quite soon, but we took down those things with us, so wo had them at once. Q. Tiie nurses are expected always — each nurse — to have her own thermometer? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you see evidences of overcrowding in any of those tents? A. Yes; the tents Vv'ere built for — they were supposed to hold five in a section, and I think they are intended to hold thirty patients in a whole section. Q. Those tents were end to end, were they? A. Yes, sir. We often had fifty or sixty patients in there, not for any consider- able length of time, but they wei'e put in there. Q. Did j'ou at any time see ten patients in any one hospital tent? A. There were nearly always eight. Q. But did it exceed eight at any time, think you? A. Yes, sir: I think sometimes for a night, while they were getting patients away the next day; I shan't be positive about that, though. Q. Were they at the time of this overcrowding, for such it was, without any question, were they putting tap extra tents as rapidly as possible? A. Yes, sir; the tent building was going on all the time. Q. Was there any reason assigned why it shouldn't have gone on twice as fast as it did? A. No, sir; I didn't ask. J^. You didn't hear from anyone in authority? A. No, sir. Q. A complaint has been made that the patients were very much incommoded in the latter part of the time by the noises of the carpenters erecting pavilions. You were there at the time the work was going on, were you not? A. Yes, sir; I think that was so to a great extent, but I don't know that it would be so any more than in any hospital where building is going on next to it. 7833— VOL. () 4 2450 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Were the yrouiids so constructed that it was necessary to put the pavilions up in close relation with the tent hospital already existing? A. No, sir; there was plenty of ground, but the floors were already there; they took down the tent hospitals and put up frame buildings. Q. They simply changed, in other words, the covering? A. Yes, sir. Q. From canvas to boards? A. Yes, sir; and it certainly was much the quickest plan, and it kept the hos- pitals together. Q. In the latter weeks of your stay did you find any lack of hospital supplies? A. In the latter weeks, no; I think not. I think we had plenty for that kind of a hospital. Q. By the 1st of September the difficulties had been corrected, are we to under- stand? A. Yes, sir; to a great extent. If it had been a penhanent hospital, the supplies would not be sufficient. Q. In what respect? A, The utensils such as hospitals furnish— dishes, knives, and forks, and every- thing of that kind. The laundry was not running, and that made us very short of bed linen. Q. Were the sheets in the early weeks of your stay there laundered or burned? A. They were burned. Q. Do you know whether an acciimulatiou of them was permitted for a consid- erable length of time? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was the soiled bedclothing put? A. It was put under the wards. Q. Just pushed under the floor? A. No; the soiled clothes, the foul clothes, were always burned. Q. At once? A. At once, yes. They were taken away and the other clothes were put on the rafters underneath the tent or tents. In some instances the tents were quite a good deal above the level of the ground. There were boards put across and these clothes put there. Q. Are we to imderstand this clothing that was put under the tent was soiled in the ordinary acceptation of the term, but not soiled in a hospital way? A. No, sir; it was not fouled. Q. It was not burned. Was there or was there not any material harm in leav- ing that soiled clothing under the tents for a week or three or four days, or even for so many weeks? A. I don't think it is a good plan. Q. I think without any question that yoii are right. Did it actually harm the patients? A. I don't think it did. Q. Had the soiled bed linen been that which was soiled by the excreta of typhoid or other patients would it have been burned at once or would it have been put under the tents? A. Burned at once. • Q. So that which was dangerous was got rid of immediately and that which could be kept was kept until it was washed? A. I think finally they burned a great deal of that. It became water-soaked under the tents, and it would have been imjjossible to use it. and it was burned. Q. Did you hear any reason why that laundry plant hadn't been put up long before? MRS. L. W. QUINTARD. 2451 A. No. We were promised it every three days from the time I went down there until it started. I never heard anything abo\it it. Q. Was it in working order when you left? A. It was in working order after a fashion. Q. Bnt not in good working order? A. I never saw ih:^ laundry, and I don't know what their materials were. Q. You know it was not in complete and thorough working order at the time you left the hospital? A. It was not. Q. Do you know how early an attempt was made to have that laundry put up? A. I don't know; they had started it before I went there. Q. How far away was it, in the first jilace, and in the next place what sort of a building was it? A. I didn't see the building; it was somewhere near the station; it must have been a mile away, at least, if not more. Q. It has been stated that your wards at Montauk were, so to speak, a place uf common resort; that everybody was walking in and out at all hours of the day, on business and without any business? A. That was so at first. Q. How long did that condition continue? A. I can't say exactly, but I should say about a week or ten days. I made a great many remonstranct's about that thing. The public seemed to take the place by storm, coming down and walking in and out of the wards and the platform between the wards. The long corridor running down was a thoroughfare for everyone. Q. It was a place of resort for everybody? A. Yes, sir. Q. It was the latest show of the season, apparently? A. Yes, sir. Q. When the order was issued restricting the visitors, do you know what its provisions were? A. That none should enter the wards unless they had personal friends or rela- tives, and theji it was to be by order of Dr. Brown. Q. He was the surgeon in charge of the hospital? A. Yes, sir; he was the surgeon in charge. Q. Did that very materially lessen the number of visitors? A. It did. Q. Did you yourself observe that the men were seriously incommoded or dis- turbed at any time by the throng of visitors in the early weeks? A. They certainly were. Q. Do you of your own knowledge know whether or not strong influences were broiight to bear upon the authorities of the hospital to furlough men who were unfit to travel? A. They were. Q. By whom? A. I can't go into the different cases, but there were a great many people there besieging the office constantly to have the men furloughed so they could go home. Others came and wanted to take away men by twenties and twenty-fives to dif- ferent places, and that was a constant thing. Dr. Brown, I know, was simply besieged with those requests. Q. Did he or did he not grant those reqiiests? A. In a great many instances they were granted. Q. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not he granted in any instances a furlough contrary to his own good Judgment? 2452 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I never discussed that matter with Dr. Brown. Q. You never heard him express an opinion? A. No, sir. Q. Did the removals, those effected, enable the work of the hospital to be car- ried on more eflfectually? A. I don't think so. I think if they had taken away some of the patients who ■were up and around, provided for them, giving us plenty of scope to attend to the sick patients, it would have been a benefit. Q. As it was, they took away sick patients and left those who were able to walk about? A. Yes, sir. (^. Was that in a large measure? A. Yes, sir. Q. Please state whether you ever observed any instance of neglect or inattention on the part of any medical officer there? A. I never did. I think the doctors were exceedingly kind to the patients. I have known some of the young doctors to sleep in the wards where they had very severe cases, and do orderlies' work. Q. You have had a wide experience in hospitals and have observed the manner of caring for the sick? A. I have had experience in two large hospitals as nurse. Q. Do you or do you not think that in proportion to the number of nurses and the aid that the nurses had that those men were as well cared for, as well nursed, as they could have been elsewhere? A. Well, we hadn't as large a proportion of nurses, to begin with, as we should have had in a city hospital. Q. Taking into consideration the number of nurses and number of attendants to each nurse, the aid she had- taking that into consideration— were the men as well cared for as they would be in an ordinary general hospital? A. They were. The one thing, the nurses were exceedingly enthusiastic about it; I never knew one to go oft" duty and leave a patient needing care. Q. Did you or did you not observe any instance of wrongdoing in any way as respects the policing— that is, the keeping clean of the place, the looking after the necessary details of the tents or doing what was called for by the men themselves— did you notice anything which was out of the way? A. You mean by the patients themselves? Q. No, by the attendants. A. There was no policing done at lirst when I went there, but after the first week there was and the place was kept clean. Q. Do I understand you that no policing was done between the 17th and 34th? A. "Very little: the place was in a very bad condition. Q. What was done with the excreta and refuse and slops and whatnot? A. That the orderlies were required to take away to the sinks; all that was carried away by the orderlies. Q. Was that carried away promptly, or was it allowed to accumulate? A. It was carried away fairly promptly when we had orderlies, but there was a good deal of the time that we were very short of orderlies. I have had reason to complain very often by reason of the commodes standing around. Q. Needing attention and yet not having received it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And as respects the cleaning up of the wards themselves- were the floors cleaned; were they washed or scrubbed? A. They were mopped up. Q. Was it done freciuently? MRS. L. W. QUINTARD. 2453 A. Not often. Q. How often were the bedclothes changed? A. We changed the sheets whenever we coukl get them to put on. Q. That means how often? A. There was ?io regular time. A great many patients had no sheets; we kept the sheets for the very sick patients. Q. A goodly number had no sheets at all? A. Yes. sir. Q. Was it altogether because you couldn't supply them or because the men preferred to sleep on blankets? A. Because we couldn't supply them. Q. You kept your sheets for the cases that most iieeded them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you able to change those sheets as often as was necessary? A. No, sir. Q. In what proportion of cases were you not able to change them as often as you should have done? A. I couldn't give the details. Q. Well, approximately? ' A. I shouldn't like to say. Q. You simply know the fact they were not changed as often as necessary? A. They were not. Q. Was it a fact, to your knowledge, that an individual, in a case of typhoid fever, we will say, remained for a period of two days without his sheets being changed? A. Not in the general hospital. Q. How was it in the division liospitals? A. You mean down there? Q. Yes. A. Oh, well, we only changed the sheets when we were really obliged to, when they were very soiled and we had to change them. Q. How was it respecting the men? Were they left in their own underclothing, or was fresh clothing ftirnished them? A. They had fresh clothing. Q. Was that in abundance? A. We got it in abundance. We didn't get it always from the Army. Q. You had it from the beginning of your stay in abundance? A. Yes. sir; I think we had plenty always. Q. How often, as a rule, was the clothing of the men changed— the men in the hospital? A. That I couldn't tell you. Tliey wove pa.iamas. and we didn't change them, of course, unnecessarily. Q. Do you know any reason why sheets were not there in sufficient quantities? A. It would have taken a thousand sheets a day if we kept all our patients in sheets. We were burning them up, and it was rather liard to supply enough. Q. Would there have been any difficulty in sending away that soiled clothing and having it laundered elsewhere? A. Yes, sir; I think there would have been, Q. How; why? A. I think, in the first place, very few laundries would care to have taken them. I think the city would have been up in nrms if clothing of that kind had been sent away. Q. Was there any difficulty in obtaining all the sheets and pillowcases that were needed here in New York, for example, or in Boston? 2454 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Not at all; it was a question of transportation and the enormous number we were using. I think the Army could hardly have estimated what we were going to require every day. Q. You had, as a maximum, how many patients? A. 1 couldn't tell you. Q. Two thousand at any one time? A. No, sir; 1,600 is the most I know of, or 1,800 I know of. at one time. Q. That means 3,300 sheets a day, does it, if every man had his bed linen changed every day? A. We should never change the bed linen of every patient in the hospital every day. Q. Supposing you had 1,000 patients in the hospital, how many sheets a day would be re(iuired? A. I should say 1,000 a day. Q. That means 30.000 sheets in thirty days? A. Yes, sir. Q. Would it have been difficialt to have bought 30,000 or even 300,000 sheets in New York and Boston at any time? A. I should think not. Q. Then aside from the transportation question, as I understand you. there was no particular reason why they shouldn't have been there? A. That I don't know. They couldn't understand why we were using so many sheets. It is very difficult to make people understand these things. We were getting an enormous number of sheets all the time. Q. Isn't it probable that, for example, the Surgeon- General or some one having authority in the medical supply department in Washington would know what was needed for the hospital? A. No, sir: I don't think they ever had had such an emergency before to contemiilate. Q. Those gentlemen, several of the gentlemen at the head of the Medical Depart- ment of the Army, were familiar with the demands of military hospitals of larger size than that at Montauk, knew what was done and knew what had been done; why couldn't they have provided you with the sheets that were needed; do you know? A. I couldn't tell yoii. Q. You only know they didn't? A. Yes, sir. Q. Would it have made any material difference, think you, whether those men had had sheets or not? A. No. sir; I don't tlnnk it would have made any material difference, but it caused a great many ruined blankets. Q. Was it a question of waste rather than damage to the sick? A. It was a question of waste and the appearance of our wards. I don't think the patients have suffered for want of sheets. C^. The men would recover as quickly under the conditions which existed as if they had had all the sheets and blankets they wanted? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have occasion to observe at all the men who went away, while they were jn transit— did you come to New York at all? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you came to New York— left Montauk— were you on a train carrying sick? A. No. sir. Q. Did you have occasion to see the sick on the train? MRS. L. W. QUINTARD. 2455 A. Yes, sir; one or two; one or two were brought into the parlor car; they didn't seem to be right up to the mark, and they were taken to the Red Cross Hospital. Q. You are familiar with the conditions which prevail along Long Island Sound, are you not, as respects the weather? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was that pb.ce at Montank as likely to be as good a place for a hospital as any jjlace on either shore of Loiig Island? A. In my opinion it was a perfect place for a hospital. By General McCook: Q. Mrs. Quintard, did Dr. Forwood ever give you an explanation why it was that you were delayed so long in reaching the hospital in Montauk? A. He said he was not ready for me; he hadn't our (quarters built, and he wanted to liave the nurses there when they could have everything comfortable; he would rather provide that. Q. Do you think that was the proper thing to do, or don't you think it was a necessary thing to do; do you or do you not? A. The Red Cross would have had tents up for the nurses long before, but he didn't wish them to do it. Q. Dr. Forwood didn't? A. I think he wanted the Army to take care of the nurses. Q. I think Dr. Forwood swore that the reason he didn't have the nurses there was because he didn't have any proper place to take care of them? A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. When you went there on tlie 14th. how many patients were in the hospital? A. I am not sure; I think about 400. Q. Were you there under the auspices of the Red Cross Society? A. I got my appointment from General Sternberg. Q. You didn't go as a Red Cross representative, then? A. No, sir. At that time the Auxiliary Relief and the Red Cross were work- ing together, providing nurses: I went in that way. Q. Was any recjuirenient made of you by any person connected with the Army, or was there any such requirement made of any of the nurses, so far as you know, that you should not divulge anything as to the abuses you observed? A. Not at all; I never heard of it. By General Dodge: Q. Mrs. Quintard, is there any matter which you can give us information about upon which we have not ({upstioned you; is there any statement you Vv^ant to make, or any suggestion? A. I want to say this, that while Colonel Forwood didn't waiit us to come down at the time we came, of course it was very necessary we should come down there. After we went there he did everything in the world that he could for the nurses to make them comfortable, and there was no restriction in regard to the number of nurses. He told me to get all the nurses I wanted, and he seemed very anxious the nurses should come tliere, and provided tentage for us, and did all he could. Q. Were the nurses in every respect properly cared for there, so that they could take proper care of themselves? A. I think as far as they could in a camp hospital. We didn't go down there expecting to find things as we have them in a hospital. We knew the sick were the Irst consideration. Our meals were served in the general kitchen for two weeks; the kitchen where every meal was cooked for all the patients, officers and nurses and convalescent patients; they all received their rations there. Of course that was not a very comfortable place for our meals. I never heard a nurse 2456 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. .grumblo about it. I never heard them say they thought they were abused in being asked to take their meals there. As soon as possible Colonel Forwood had a dining-room tent put up and we had our own kitchen, and that was running by the 1st of September, I think. Q. Were all the proprieties duly observed? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there an opportunity for the care and needs of the person to be attended to in any way? A. In the first place, when we went down there there were no toilet accommoda- tions. That was attended to as soon as possible. We have no complaint to make about that. We went down there knowing these sick men were there and we expected to find for ourselves very little comfort. Q. Were you disappointed in that expectation? A. No, sir; but there isn't a nurse who wouldn't do it again. New York, November 26, 1898. TESTIMONY OF MISS ALICE B. BABCOCK. Miss Alice B. Babcock, upon request, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Please give us your full name and address. A. Alice B. Babcock; .58 West Fifty-seventh street, New York City. Q. Did you have any experience at Camp Wikofif? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was yoiir experience there? A. At Camp Wikoff? Q. Yes. A. I went with the Red Ci'oss and ray principal experience was the lack of having transportation for the men. Q. When did you reac^h there, and how? A. I went by train from Long Island City; about the 10th of September, I think it was. Q. What has been your previous experience with the Army? A. On the transport Concho, from Siboney to New York. Q. When did you leave Siboney and when did you reach New York? A. On the 33d of July we left Siboney, and we got to New York on the 31st of July. Q. Where did you board the Concho, at Santiago or Siboney? A. Siboney. Q. Who was in charge of the vessel; do you know? . A. The captain, do you mean? Q. No; the medical officer. A. Dr. Lesser. » CJ. Any officers of the Army aboard who had any military supervision of the men? A. No; not that I know of. Q. How many passengers had you aboard, and how many of them were soldiers and how many civilians? A. There were about 176 soldiers altogether, including about 18 offloers. and I think there were four or five newspaper reporters, besides Dr. and Mrs. Lesser. Q. Do you know who the senior military officer aboard was; that is, the ranking officer? MISS ALICE B. BABCOCK. 2457 A. No: I don't kuow. Q. Any other Red Cross representatives except yourself and Dr. Lesser? A. Yes, sir. Q. How manyV A. Mrs. Lesser and three of her sisters, who had been ill, and two assistants and myself. Q. You don't include the Sisters of Charity in your enumeration of the nurses? A. No, sir; I didn't include them. Q. What provision had been made for those aboard the transport at Santiago before you sailed from there: do you know? A. None that I know of. Q. Had any representative of the Red Cross or any military officer, medical or otherwise, looked after the water supply? A. Not that I know of. Q. Did you make any inciuiry about the water supply before you left? A. Did I? Q. Yes; or any representative of the Red (Jross that you know of? A. I don't know. Q. What was the water supply, as a matter of fact? A. Very bad: al)Out the worst that could be: it was even repulsive: the odor was bad; it had been on tliere for three months. Q. What food supplies were taken aboard at Santiago? A. I don't know at Santiago: I know only about Siboney; the army rations at Siboney. Q, Were there any put aboard at Santiago? A. I don't know. Q. Well, did the representatives of the Red Cross look after any provisions for tliemselves at Santiago? A. I don't know about that part of it. The transport, as I under.stood— it was their provision: they should provide the people who go as passengers. Q. You expected the captain or the quartermaster of the transport himself to do that? A. Yes, sir; the captain of the transport, as I understand, attends to the supplies, Q. How did that pan out in practice? A. Very bad. I lived on stewed tomatoes for three days; it was all bad. Q. What food supplies were put aboard the vessel at Siboney, did you notice? A. Army rations; barely enough to carry us through. Q. Do yon know whether there were any delicacies for the sick of any kind? A. Only such as Mrs. Lesser brought with her, which were very few. Q. Had you any knowledge of any supplies, previously prepared at Siboney, put aboard for the sick? A. No, sir. Q. Have you knowledge that there were no such supplies? A. I didn't see any. Q. Did you give personal supervision to the sick during the journey? A. Yes. Q. What had you aboard to be given them— given the sick? A. Only some cereals that Mrs. Lesser brought— about two packages oatmeal or Qiiaker oats, or something like that. Q. How many sick were taken aboard at Siboney, including those who were sujiposed to be sick? A. Who couldn't walk themselves? Q. Yes; and those who were supposed to be under a stargeon's care. A. I should think there were 25 which were brought aboard. They were all sick, more or less. 2458 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. How many turned out to be sick? A. I think the second day out most every man on the ship was sick— needed some attention of some kind. Q. What was the character of the sickness, malaria or otherwise? A. Typhoid and malaria. Q. Were any of the so-called convalescent typhoid patients aboard? A. Yes, sir; many of them. Q. Do yon know what proportion were convalescents— typhoid? A. I think about 7 convalescent typhoid patients came on board. Q. Was there any proper diet aboard the vessel for men in their condition? A. Absolutely none. Q. When did you reach New York on the Concho? A. On Sunday morning, the 31st of July. Q. Was the voyage longer than usual? A. Yes; because we stopped at Hampton Roads. Q. For how long? A. Two and a half days, I think. We got there Wednesday night and left Fri- day afternoon. Q. Did the quantity of food put aboard at Siboney last until you reached New York? A. I think not entirely. Q. So that, in your judgment, then, there was not only no provision made for the sick, no adequate provision, but there was not adequate provision of any kind for the number aboard? A. That is what I think; yes, sir. Q. Were you ashore at Siboney? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know. then, how the provisions for the voyage were apportioned or sent aboard, or by whose direction? A. No. sir; I do not. Q. How were the men lodged on the Concho? A. They were put in miserable little bunks that were put as close together as that [indicating], so it was diflacult to give the men a drink of water without striking their heads, almost entirely without mattresses or even clothing; right close together, so you couldnt walk between them— between the bunks. Q. Had they the liberty of the upper deck during the day? A. Oh, yes; any time; those who were able. Q. Did any of the men take advantage of that during the night and sleep up there? A. Yes. sir; plenty of them slept up there. Q. How many died during the voyage? A. Six. Q. Of what? A. Typhoid. I think two of them died because they had food given them when they shouldn't have had it; not proper food. One of the boys died from blood poisoning, because we had absolutely nothing to take care of him, with no medical supplies of any kind. Q. What was done with the bodies— buried at sea? A. Buried at sea. The first one who died was buried after we got to Hampton Roads; the other two died as we were approaching Hampton Roads, so we couldn't bury them. We had to keep them there a day and a half before we could go out and bury them, and as we were returning the fourth died, and we returned and buried him. Q. They were buried on the land, you mean? MISS ALICE B. BABCOCK. 2459 A. No, sir; we went out to sea and buried tliem. They wouldn't allow us to go ashore at Hampton Roads. Q. Do you know how many of the men who were aboard the transport died subsequently? Have you any knowledge on that subject? A. No, sir; I th'nk not; no positive knowledge. Q. Was the recovery of these men retarded and their health seriously injured by the conditions which existed on board the Conclio, in your judgment? A. I should say so. decidedly. Q. Anything else you would like to say on the subject? A. I should like to say that we had no medical supplies, at least very inadequate medical supplies. After the fourth day everything gave out— quinine and sulphur and everything. There was nothing to work with. We couldn't really do any nursing, because we had absolutely nothing to nurse with. We could just cheer them up, do what we could, give them this bad water to drink, which was not very good for them, of course. Q. Is there any other statement as to the Concho or Camp Wikoff which you would like to make? A. No; I think I have said it all. There were no mattresses, no blankets, no medical supplies; that was the condition of things — supplies inadequate in every way on the Concho. Transportation was lacking after we had come to Wikoff. By General Dodge: Q. Did you say you had charge of the transportation at Camp Wikoff? A. No. It fell to my lot to look after it. Iwasbythestation,intheRedCrosstent. They put up a sort of hospital tent there, the Red Cross, and my work was there, and right practically across the Reel Cross tent was the transportation tent, so it really fell to my lot to look out for transportation for th(3 men who came down, many of them ill and too weak, really, to be sent away. Still they came down, and often their transportation papers were not properly made out. It happened more often than otherwise, and they were there from early in the morning until late in the afternoon before they got away, with no provision having been made for feeding them. The Red Cross teut had been opened there. Q. The Red Cross tent was there for the purpose of supplying them with food and things of that kind? A. Yes. I don't know whether that was known to the authorities or not. Q. In relation to this transportation, yoii say a great many mistakes were made in their furloughs? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where were those furloughs made out, at the hospital or in their regiments? A. They were made oiit — the furloughs, I believe, were made out in the hospi- tal if they came from the hospital: then they had to go and get their rations at the transportation tent. Q. They i-eceived the commutation of rations, $1.50 a day? A. Yes, sir. Q. And their transportation? A. Yes. sir. There was a great delay in getting those men off, so the men were kept all day waiting sometimes; often kept over night. Q. Were you able to make those men that were kept there, kept there over night, comfortable? A. Yes, sir: we tried to. Q. Did you see any suffering there at the station on account of the men not hav- ing proper attention? A. Yes, sir: it seemed to me so. Q. That is, the delay? 2460 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir. Why, a great many men. as I say, were weak, very feeble, some going from one hospital to the other. Q. Going without anybody in charge of them? A. No. sir; sometimes they had somebody in charge and sometimes they were simply sent from one hospital to the other. Q. Without anybody in charge of them? A. Oh, no: they had some one in charge of them; some one who came to get them; sometimes it was a doctor and sometimes I don't know who had them. Q. Did that class of men— did you take them into your Red Cross tent and take care of them? A. Yes, sir. Q. When their furloughs were made out properly, how long did it take to obtain their transportation and lonnnutationV A. That depends upon the number. They would have a great many sometimes; sometimes forty or fifty. If they only sent tliem fifteen or twenty minutes before the train went, they naturally couldn't go on that train. Q. Were not the trains held there for the piarpose of taking them? A. They couldn't hold them vei-y long; not more than five or ten minutes. They were very good about doing that. Q. Is there anything that you have to say. Miss Babcock, anything that you can give us any information on where we have not (iiiestioned you? A. I will speak about the graveyard, about the names on the headstones. They were not attended to until 1 happened to notice it by chance. That was then about the loth of September. I think, and they were only marked in lead pencil. Q. Do you know how they are marked now? A. I don't know. By (jreneral McCooK: Q. Do you know a lead-pencil mark will last longer than anything? Did you know that? I didn't know it until recently. It will last longer, a record on a book. A. And on wood? Q. Yes; I think so. A. Than marking ink? I didn't know it. New York, November S6, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF DR. JOSEPH F. CHMELICEK. Dr. Joseph F. Chmelicek, upon request, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Please give your full name and present address. A. Joseph F. Chmelicek, 204 East Seventy-second street. Q. What is your profession, Doctor? A. I am a physician and surgeon. Q. What experience, if any, did you have with our Army during the late war? A. Well, I spent a whole month down at the Second Division hospital of the Fourth Army Corps at West Tampa; also sLx weeks at the Third Division hos- pital of the Fourth Army Corps at Fernandina. Q. How many sick had yovi in the hospital at West 'Pampa? A. In all 476. Q. What facilities had you for caring for them? DR. JOSEPH F. (^HMELICEK. 2461 A. We had hired a convent for hospital purposes, witli ample ground around it, and when the convent was filled we built tents, in all about twenty tents, hospital tents. Q. What had yoi. in the way of medical supplies for attending upon the sick? A. Well, the me deal supplies were amply sufficient. Q. What did you have in the way of hospital facilities— beds, bedding, bed clothing, personal clothing for the men, bedpans, commodes, cuspidors, ther- mometers, hot- water bottles, everything for the hospital, for careful nursing? A. We had everything in abundance, but the most part of it came from the Red Cross people. Q. What was the general character of the sick? What was the nature of the diseases from which they were suffering in general? A. Typhoid fever. Q. Did you have the facilities for caring for those cases according to modern ideas? A. We did. Q. What was the character of the medical attendants. Doctor, of the faculty and the profession? A. I believe it was the best I would like to have for myself. Q. Have you any knowledge of any individual cases in which men were neg- lected, either by the physician or by the nurses or by the hospital attendants, in any way? A. Well, in the beginning we didn't have enough orderlies, and it caused a great deal of hardship upon the orderlies, and they soon succumbed to the strain. Q. They were overworked, were they? A. Yes, sir; and they took sick themselves. Q. How was that remedied? A. Well, by volunteers from the different regiments. Q. Did you have any female nurses in your hospital? A. We had nine. Q. Were they efficient or otherwise? A. Well, most of them were efficient. q. What was there at the hospital at Tampa, Doctor, that in your judgment calls for adverse criticism? A. Well, I wouldn't say there is anything that could be criticised, but I would suggest that in building camps down South the first thing that should be provided is a mosquito guard, so that the patient could sleep. Q. That is, around the entire place, you mean? A. That is. over the face of the patients: they had to suffer some from that cause. Q. Did you have those individual mosquito nets which we saw at Jacksonville, Fla.? A. Yes, sir; we had them, but they are not sufficient. The patient often rolls around and throws it off. Q. They are rather impatient of having the machinery of it around their necks and heads, are they not. A. Yes, sir; and it takes the air away. Q. Now as to Fernandina, Doctor: you were there for six weeks? A. Yes, .sir. Q. What was the character of the ground for camping purposes and for hospital purposes? A. Well, the ground was not well selected, because it was back of the troops. Q. That is, the camp for the hospital was not well selected? A. Yes, sir. 2462 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. In general, what was the character of the ground around that camp; good or otherwise? A. It was good, sandy soil, and had good water. Q, And the facilities for bathing; how were they? A. Well, the facilities for bathing were very good for sectional work, only a company at a time. Q. Now, as to the hospital: you say the selection of the ground for the hospital was not good, because it was back of the troops? A. Yes, sir; in a direct line with the prevailing wind there. Q. How many patients had you there? A. About IGO. Q. Had you tent capacity for them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Had you medical supplies in abundance? A. Plenty of them; but the hospital ground was used for six weeks before we came there, and there wasn't any floors for the tents, and it was rather unhygienic. Q. Well, had the ground been used by the troops before you came? A. No. sir; it had been tised only by the hospital for six weeks in succession, and it was out of the way of the whole route. Q. So that you had difficitlty in the transportation of your supplies? A. Y'^es, sir; and of the patients, too. Q. What was the character of the hospital supplies, beds, bedding, clothing for the men, hospital facilities, and all that? A. There was hardly any, especially the cots. We used those cheap cots with a spring where the patients sink way down. It doubles them up. Q. Had you brought any with you from Tampa? A. We didn't bring any from Tampa, but we had some on the way from some- where; I don't know where. Q. What was the character of the medical attendants there; good or otherwise? A. From mj' experience I don't know. I couldn't speak from what the men said. I wouldn't testify, because I couldn't swear to it. Q. How many medical officers did you have there at that hospital? A. Four, I think; surgeons. Q. Four, including yourself? A. Yes, sir; besides a major and a captain, who was the medical officer; six in all. Q. The surgeon in charge, the medical officer, and four ward officers? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the prevailing character of the diseases there? A. Typhoid. Q. Had you facilities for nursing them? A. Well, we moved them at once, as soon as we could; moved them to the beach. Q. Did you have any female nurses there? A. Yes, sir; we had fourteen. Q. For how many patients? A. One hundred and sixty patients. Q. So that the nursing was adequate?. A. Yes, sir; they received every attention they could possibly get. Q. How were the orderlies there; did you have orderlies to wait upon these nurses? A. Well, the majority of the orderlies at Fernandina were the worst lot of men I came across. I heard from the officers that they were selected by the regimental officer because they couldn't do anything with them and so they were put there for this work. DR. JOSEPH F. CHMELICEK. 2463 Q. What they called in the Army " unloading"? A. Yes; unloaded them on the division hospital. But we had plenty of nurses, and that compensated for the orderlies. Q. For the inefficiency of the orderlies? A, Yes, sir. Q. What was the character of your camps at both places in reference to what they style " policing;' were they kept in good condition? A. Yes, sir; under the surgeon we kept a strict policing of the camj). Q. You made no change at Fernandina of the hospital ground for six weeks, as I understand? A. Oh, no; we changed at once. The camp had been kept there for six weeks prior to our coming. Q. And you madci the change? A. At once; yes. sir. Q. You changed from the rear of the troops to the fx-ont of them to give the men the benefit of the beach? A. Yes, sir; right down on the beach, and the result was we didn't lose a single jiatient. Q. What was the number of deaths at West Tampa? Do you remember? A, At West Tampa. 1 1 out of 47G. Q. And at Fernandina not one? A. Not one between September 5 and September '-'A). Q, Have you any other statement. Doctor, as to affairs at either yilace that you would like to make? A. I have. Q. Just make your statement, if you please. A. I made a special study of those forms of typhoid fever. I wanted to go down to the ground and find out what was the cause, and I found the soldiers, the troops and officers alike, went down town very often and ate all tlie ice cream, pies, etc., stale beer, and disregarded the reciuiremeuts of the camp. Q. And the hygienic conditions as well? A. Yes, sir. I would sum it up as inexperience of officers and ignorance of men, and too much money from their relatives— spending money — and flies. That is the cause of the whole business. Now, in Fernandina two carloads of watermelons arrived for some merchant, who wanted to sell them. The health officer of that town, Dr. Halsey, condemned the melons, and they had them dumped somewhere in the rear of the yards of the railroad. Somebody gave the tip to the soldiers. All the officers knew it and they permitted all the watermelons to be carried into the cami) and. of course, even to the hospital grounds, and on visiting them, making a visit among the patients, we found that relatives smuggled in every- thing possilile to eat or to chew or to smoke. We found under one man's jiillow 6 packages of chocolate and about 20 packages of cigarettes and things to chew, chewing gum and everything else, and one man confessed to me, after having had a relapse— he was all right and was slated to go home, and he begged to be allowed to go down town for a little shopping, and 1 allowed him to go, and he came back with fever— he confessed he had had 15 cents' worth of molasses candy. Of course, if a patient is kept five or six weeks on milk alone he is naturally hun- gry, and they always implored the visitors to bring them something to eat and not allow them to starve. We had to keep a guard at the hospital entrance to prevent all the people from bringing in eatables. Q. Contraband articles? A. Yes, sir; mostly, and these hard crackers. They claim they couldn't eat hard-tack, but these hard crackers, they were crazy for them; that is my experi- ence. 24G4 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Is there anything else you would like to state, Doctor; anything that would help lis in reaching a conclusion? A. I believe in moving troops they should be allowed to march at least .") or 10 miles a day, in the early morning or late in the afternoon, and kept near the rail- road, so if they are needed in a hurry they can move them (juicker, but not dump them in a city like Tampa all at once, all ready for dissipation and other excesses; and. Hecond, I think it would be well if men under 21 should not be allowed to enlist. By General Wilson: Q. How long did I understand you to say the camp at Fernandina was main- tained? A. Six weeks prior to our coming; six weeks after that. Q. Our testimony before has not indicated that it was that long. I only men- tion it incidentally. Do I landerstand you to say your facilities were limited for bathing? A. Limited to companies, because they had to travel three and a half miles to reach the beach. Q. We saw that magnificent beach: went over it, and were informed by prom- inent people there that they had seen 2,000 people in bathing at the same time there. The general manager of the railroad told us he had seen that. I only mention these things incidentally. A, I can't deny it, because I wasn't there when the troops were en masse. I came after the troops had moved out. Q. We were told the troops were there only thirty days. That was also told us. I only mention it. A. Yes, sir. By Captain Howell: Q. Don't you think you are mistaken about the distance that the beach was from the camp? A. Weil, it was 4 miles to the town and 3 A to the camp. Q. Well, I don't think the beach is more than 3 miles from the town, and the camp is between the beach and the city. A. Well, I don't know: on the straight road it is about 2 miles past the light- house to the hospital camp. By General Beaver: Q. Well, as I understand you, it wasn't that the beach was restricted, but they were only allowed to take a company at a time? A. Yes, sir. Some people got drowned there. They dared each other to go in so far and they got drowned. Q. Your hospital was there, as I understand it, after the troops were gone? A. Yes, sir. New York, Novcmbei^ 26, ISOS. TESTIMONY OF W. H. BALD'WIN, JR. Mr. W. H. Baldwin, Jr., upon recpiest, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Mr. Baldwin, will you kindly give us your name, residence, and business occupation? A. W.H. Baldwin, jr.; business address, 3'3 Nassau street. New York; president of Long Island Railroad. W. H. BALDWIN, JR. 2465 Q. You had the contract for carrying troops and supplies from New York to Montauk Point, I believe, Mr. Baldwin? A. No, sir; we made a proposition to the Government that if any troops or sup- plies were to be sent over our road we would handle them at certain specified rates. Q. Was that put into the shape of a contract? A. Finally; but there was no exclusive contract, nor practically any exclusive arrangement at all. Q. You did have a contract? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you any narrative or statement in regard to the business done and the way in which it was done over the road? A. 1 can state very concisely the whole history of it, Q. Please do so. A. I have not prepared it in the form of a paper, but 1 have it thoroughly in mind and can state it in concise manner, so that there will be no time wasted. Q, If you will kindly do that it will facilitate matters. A. Whatever I may say, I have the original papers and can demonstrate it. In the month of May General Merritt sent Lieutenant Hale to see me to talk about using Montauk Point as a recruiting cmup. That is the first we had ever heard of it. I even declined to see him, and never met Lieutenant Hale. He came twice, and I even declined to see him twice. On June 2 I got word from General Frank that he wanted to go down to Montauk Point, and I agreed to go down with him the next day and let them seethe lands. The letter from Colonel Gilliss, dated June 1 , is the request from General Frank to go. It is the first time I had ever lieard aliout either of thnm. We went there on June 2, and General Frank said, " We are now in war. We want a place where we can take the troops from the Santiago campaign, rest them, recuperate them, and take them in the fall for the Havana campaign, and we would like to use your land here for that purpose." I entered into it very enthusiastically. He said he would take all the troops there by transport, and take them away by transport, and no reference was made by anybody and no thought entered their minds or my mind that any troops would ever be handled over the road. On June 3, at his request, I dictated, in the pres- ence of Colonel Gilliss, a letter giving my views, a copy of which I have here, tell- ing on what terms he could use the property. That was after a meeting with the owners of the property, it not being owned by the railroad company. The owners of the property had declined, as I said before, to i^ermit it to be used as a camp. We had constructed 20 miles of railroad to reach this property, and their plans were to have a very large summer colony there. We had spent a very considerable sum of money in the development of the land and had drawn maps, copies of which I will show you presently, which will indicate the expenditure of fully a million dollars in preparing it. We had spent $600,000 in a railroad to reach it, nothing else being on that road; approximately nothing; but the owners of the property entered into it just as patriotically as anyone did anywhere in the country during the last six months, and it was that point of view that controlled entirely in the matter, and there v.'ere outside owners who had nothing to do with our railroad who had to be con- sidered, and therefore what was considered by the Government itself a nominal charge was made for the use of the property, which property is easily worth a million dollars, prospectively, for us. On June 3 I dictated a letter, and I read two clauses in it to Colonel Gilliss. I said, " Tf there is anything in it which does not meet with your entire satisfaction, please telephone me. I do not mean in any way to be arbitrary, and the reference to exclusive tran^sportation is to prevent outside boats from landing at the dock and to preserve all the rights and legiti- mate business which belongs to us. Of course there is nothing in it which would not permit you to handle your troops and supplies on your transports and vessels." 7835 — VOL. G 5 24()(i INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAU WITH SPAIN. That first letter took about tun miuutes to dictate, in Colonel (;rilliss" prenence, and with which he was entirely satisfied at the time. He talked with G 'ueral Frank at (TO\ernor's Lsland, and lie came back next morning and he said General Frank wanted it chani^'ed in two (jr three respects, as it seemed there were certain restrictions in it. Exactly what they were I can't say: they were simple. 1 was busy in a directors" me^tiiig at 12 o'clock, and he wanted to go back on the \.\~> boat, so as to send word to Washington, and I told Colonel Gilliss. " Fix it just as you want it." And he told me the points raised by General Frank, and I changed the letter to just the form exactly that General Frank wanted it. Then that leads up to the (question of a contract which was officially prepared and came in later. Then here is a letter from Colonel Gilliss, saying he had for- warded the report, which was satisfactory, and here is a letter of June 8 from me to Colonel (-filliss, in whi('h I told him that I must have several days' time b(;fore any troops are moved there, so as to get facilities ready f(n- the station. All the way thi'ough in our conversations, either in Washington or here, I had said that the prerequisite for the whole thing was the demand on my part that I was to have two weeks' notice, because there were no facilities for taking care of the troops. On July 12 Colonel Gilliss wrote, "It looks to me very much like the Montauk camp would not materialize. I have heard nothing officially. I return sketches, etc." On July ^iO we held off our development. We had been working there with Italians and gangs of men, etc. We had delayed everything on account of this. On July 29 I told Colonel Gilliss I wanted to know if they were going to do anything. He said, "I have sent a copy of your letter (my letter) of July 21) to headquarters with a re(iuest for any information they can give." Then we apijroach August 2, when I was invited to Washington and met the Secretary of War, and he talked with me then about using this property? I called attention to all that had gone before, wliich then was before him at that time, on August 2, and we approach the period when we began to do business. That all leads up to this contract. On August 2, then, I was in Washington, and the result of that call was that I should go to Montauk on the 4tli with two members of the Quartermaster- General's Office. Messrs. Clinton Smith and Quartermaster Patt; n. They were to look over the property with me and to say whether it was all right, especially with respect to the water supply, and so Thursday— on Thursday afternoon, the 4th — I received, on my i-eturn from Montauk with these two representatives, who had not then indicated what they were to telegraph to Washington, I received a message frcjm the Quartermaster-General to the effect that troops and horses and mules were on their way from Fernandina, and that message I think is on its way to me here now. I gave the message to Captain Patten because ho had no instruc- tions, and he wanted some autlioritative thing to show to begin his work. They asked me what they should do and what was to be don((, and I told them if they would meet in my office next morning I thought we could lay ])lans. < )n Fri- day, then, the next naorhing, I had in my office — having arranged it during the night — contractors of every description, well men, carpenters, etc., and by noon of that very day contracts were made for all the engines and pumps and piping and building of the buildings; and everything complete, that ever was let, was done in my office in the course of three hours' time. I don't know whether any reporters are here or not. Q. One of these gentlemen represents tlie Associated Press and the oilier thi; New York Sun, A. I don't speak of these things from any personal pride at all. This a'l has an important bearing on the inception, the beginning of it. That work of three hours in my office that morning had the effect of forwarding the work at the camp, according to their own statemenfs in my presence, at least two weeks— that is, in the ordinary course of business it would have been necessary to delay the work W. H. BALDWIN, JR. 2467 that .we did there and were able to do through our machuicry and to lielp in every possible way. The next day was Saturday, the Gth, and I immediately riished all kinds of supjjlies for our own work, and had over 200 men, and we had rails and ties sent there immediately and began to lay tracks. On August 7, which was Sunday, the first train of supplies appeared, and on Monday morning troops and mules from the Southern camps appeared. That was all done between Thursday night of the 4th and Monday morning of the .Sth, practically three days, so that you see it was a sudden rush to the Point. Now for an item showing what we did in those few days. The railroad company laid 22,800 feet of track and 4i miles of siding. It was necessary to use 5,.")00 yards of filling. We put in a water tank and water supply for our own use, a 50,000-gallon tank, steam pump, etc., 1,500 feet away from the terminal. We put up bunk houses for 100 men. We erected tents, two stables, restaurant building 100 feet by 60, waiting room for passen- gers, two express sheds, and freight house with 17,500 feet of floor surface, and facilities for feeding and sleeping 275 of our own men. That was all completed within seven days and much faster than it was needed for Government use. The Government at that time was necessarily without help, it was impossible for it to have tools and men and wagons, etc., on that short notice, and during that first ten days we did practically all the work', and we did a very large amount of work for the G(jvernment. We built roads that were necessary for them to begin. We hauled, in a small way, lumber that we had there for our own use. We furnished the men from our own shops to lay all the piping for the waterworks system. We put 50 men at work on the buildings, to hasten the work on the buildings, and gen- erally supplied the lumber and men and did everything to hasten that first work. During that first week, after about six days had i)assed, and all these mules and horses and men had come in from the South, General Young determined he couldn't take care of any more, and we had notice of a very large number of cars on the way to us. It was raining very hard for three days; it rained excessively. They had no tents in which to put the men, and General Young demanded that they should be stopped en route, and they were stopped for thirty-six hours, so that he could catch up. We now come to one or two incidents connected with it about which you will ask (questions, probably, and I will answer them. The Government has been severely criticised because it has been said there was no water supply. Everyone knows who knows Long Island that you can get a per- ] ect water supply anywhere on that island, and we had observed at two jjoints on Ihis'property small wells with -1-inch pipe that would furnish 30,000 or 40,000 gal- lons every twenty-four hours, of water of which they had the analysis, and their conclusion that the water was perfect was well warranted, and after events demonstrated that. We furnished the men t<:) put in then- waterworks system which eventuated, and, as you know, they pumped a million gallons of perfectly pure water a day from a 10-inch pipe, without any surface water running into it, as there is a great substratum there of as pure water as can be found under the surface of the earth. The scare of no water was started deliberately and maliciously by a newspaper correspondent, who, by his own confession, had never been on the ground and u ver knew anything about it, and boasted of his enterprise in forcing the Gov- ernment to act. Before coming to the (luestion of operation on the railroad, I will speak of another chapter. We will assume for the moment that the troops and supplies and all had come there, and that on September 2 there began to be a wave backward of people coming away from there. Then the Long Island Rail- roud was called upon to move troops from Montauk to Long Island City, and I had the honor to be made the president of the Red Cross, so as to be in charge of its work at Long Island City, and I may say that during the first two weeks I had stayed personally at Montauk, from morning until night, and night after night, I didn't go to bed, and didn't pretend to, and after two nights and days in succes- 2 tG8 INVESTIGATION OK CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. sion 1 did not sleep in my endeavor to aid the Government, as well as our own work, in this serious predicament in which I saw them placed. When the troops began to come through Long Island City, the ladies of the Red Cross Society, with our assistance, organized to take care of the sick and convalescents who were en route, and we averaged to take care of about 200 men each night, men who could not proceed any farther af ler their arrival at Long Island City, the journey and the excitement of getting away, the weeks of moving from camp to station, and the fact that they all came in in the evening instead of coming in earlier in the day, tending to put them in a very serious condition— critical condition. Q. Long Island City is what distance from Montank. and how far from New York is Montauk? A. One hundred and twenty-five miles from New York, at Thirty-fourth Street Pier in New York, and we run the ferry between the two points. We immedi- ately organized to take care of o.lO men— thoroughly organized— with trained nurses and doctors to care for the men as they came otf the train, and I personally met every train and saw that the men were properly cared for. That was a piece of work that President McKinley and others looked over on their way to New York, and General Sternberg visited, and was a necessary secjuence of conditions as they existed out there. It was really my personal aim to stop them from com- ing, rather than to take care of them. I wanted to prevent their coming, as hun- dreds of men were coming, in a condition that did not permit of their traveling, and that finally was stopped. After General Sternberg had been there and had seen the condition of those men he personally looked out for that. Many of them persisted in coming, and made false statements as to their condition when they left. They wanted to go on home, and of course hundreds of them were too weak even to have started, but they were well cared for there and sent immedi- ately to hospitals throughout New York, Brooklyn, and Long Island City with ambulances that we had and ambulances from the various hospitals. In passing, the railroad company looked out for sanitation. We had immediately purchased, the first day, full fumigating outfits— six outfits— and of course fumigated every- thing, baggage cars and all that pertained to this particular traffic. Now, as I see that I have here the maps, I want to stop a moment to show you a little more clearly what we are talking about. The first thing I want to show you is where Montauk is. Just at present it may be of interest. (At this point the witness laid before the commission a series of maps and i^hoto- graphs, which he spread out upon the committee table and by which he explained in detail the location of Long Island City, Montauk Point, the siding and lines of railway of the Long Island Railroad, the location of the many points of interest connected with the camp, such as the various hospitals, the railroad station, the pump and well, where the various regiments were quartered, etc. ) By Captain Howell: Q. Is that a fresh-water lake? A. It is for horses and cattle. Q. It is a little brackish? A. A little brackish; yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. Where was the well? A. It was sunk here [indicating]. It was sunk through two strata. Q. That was a million gallons a day? A. Yes, sir; but just a little hole dug about 6 feet square until you get down 20 feet, and then a 10-inch pipe was sunk down through the ground, and from that 10-inch pipe they had that enormous million gallons pumped, and all they could pump was a million gallons a day, and in pumping a million gallons a day they couldn't reduce it. W. H. BALDWIN, JK. 2469 By Captain Howell: Q. Is that a wrought-iron pipe? A. Wrought-iron pipe. I was responsible for the water supply, because I had shown the Government that at this point here [indicating] that we had a well three years ago, and from a 4-inch pipe we pumped oO,000 gallons of water a day, and they tested it, and it showed no loss at all. I put in a pump here, a steam pump, and it pumped every day 30,000 gallons full capacity. By Dr. Conner: Q. How many grains did I understand you to say there were to the gallon of sodium cliloride? A. Fifty. Q. We had a witness who testified there were 90 grains to the gallon. A. The witness was misinformed, or probably deliberately lied, as so many do. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Was water pumped from there into the tanks? A. Not that 1 know of. Here was the difficulty in the beginning. I never saw any pump. We started a well near the pump. You can go a few feet from that pond and sink down below that strata and find water as cool as ice. It is too cool to drink fast. Its temperature is from 43 to 4o\ We dug down below the sea level to show that to Messrs. Smith and Patten — to show that water was there, and Colonel Forwood. who saw that later, was delighted. He said it is perfectly fil- tered water; this is gravel and sand, and it is a perfect filter. I had a pump out there in twenty-four hours after we had notice, and it was right on the ground. The pijtes were put in in order to get water for the cattle. We figured that the whole 25, (-00 men couldn't use up more tlian 200,000 gallons a day, and the drink- ing water could easily be obtained from this well. By General Beaver: Q. When was the main well and pumj) in operation? A. I can't give you the date of that. It was not more tlian six or seven daj^s after we started in there. Q. It was before the 16th? A. Yes, sir; and they used to haul water here before they got the pipe system in. That land has been a grazing ground for two hundred years. Now I show you some photographs that will show you the uplands. There is another view of the same thing. Ther.' [indicating] were the terminals of the Long Island Rail- road on that Angust 4. when we got Avord that these troops were on their way. The new road was only built two years ago. This was all embankment, 4, 5, and 6 feet high. I immediately, on notice of that, drew this plan. I just moved that around here [indicating] and laid out track capacity for 350 cars — 383, to be exact — so that a team could get to every foot of track in the whole yard, and I laid out various buildings, the use of which I will detail to you, for the railroad. This was all put in more rapidly than the Government could use it. Sunday night that first track was in. A train came through with supplies, and, as I have said, if that train had come five minutes earlier, it couldn't have got in: and after that first train came in, we worked that night and got the second track -in, and then we put in these tracks much more rapidly, and at no time were we ever pushed for room. The Government put these biiildings over here [indicating] for supplies. Standing on the hill and looking down in the valley this [presenting photograph] gives you an idea of the camp after about two weeks. It shows the wa)' it looked after we got it agoing. We now come to a question of the movement of the business on the railroad. As I said to you, no one had, until the time I got that message — no one had ever suggested such a thing as that we wt^re to handle any troops. A clause was put in the contract, or in this proposition, this letter, 2470 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. stating the terms on which we would handle troops, on the theory that it was for men who might goon furlough, who wanted to go home, and I said, "We will put that at a low rate, so they can go home: " and we made it a cent and -a quarter a mile. If I had been asked by the Government to handle troops as we did, I should have been tempted to decline, not but that we were ready to give every ounce of strength to the Government at that time that we could, because the whole feeling X)revailing in our lioard of directors and everyone connected with the railro;id was one of the most lofty patriotism, and no sordid motives guided us at all. We expected they were coming in to use that property and then go off again by water. I say we made the lowest rate that any railroad company ever made, and when they did come upon us we said nothing aboiit it and handled them. The Long Island Railroad runs (550 trains a day. In August and September we were run- ning 1 ,34() trains a day over our road. I don't mean Coney Island trains. It was necessary in order to handle this business that was suddenly thrust upon us with- out a moment's warning to engage 215 extra men in just the transportation serv- ice, outside of over 200 men in our terminal work at Montauk. We made an arrangement with the Central Railroad of New Jersey and got 10 extra engines, and we got them on a moment's notice, as we couldn't have handled the business with our equipment. We handled as many as 18 special-trip trains in one day over this road. We make the statement unreservedly and unqualifiedly that from the beginning to the end of the whole performance there was no delay on trooi)s or commissary supplies or supplies for the Government, and that it was all handled in a special service and in just as good service as an express service, only on freight trains at freight rates. We didn't go into it carelessly. There is a statement of every movement of troops for each day, in printed form, showing when they left and when they arrived, and what the troops were, and the cars and men and time received, etc. Here is a statement showing the horses, wagons, camp food, and hay and quartermaster's supplies, lumber, wood, etc., that was handled during the last twenty-four hours, and a statement showing the number of cars unloading in the past twenty-four hours at Montauk, the number of loaded cars on hand at 8 a. m. every morning, and the empty cars. Maximum business at one time was 220 cars, on Septeml business which naturally belongs to us. Of course, there is nothing in it which would not permit you to handle your troops and supplies on your transports and vessels. I am at your command day or night." Further than that, I said to Colonel Gilliss, "You are wide open here, and you can do business from New Y^ork or other points on your own vessels, and the only consideration we shall get will be the supplies to the camp." He said, " Colonel Kimball is located in New Y'ork, and it will be natural for supplies to go from there;" and he said, "I think you need not worry about getting your fair share of supplies." There never was any (luestion but what the Government had a perfect right to handle every bit of its supplies. In fact, I urged in the first view this, and I said to them, "Get two or three l)arge loads of lumber, send up piles, send up hay, send up grain by water. Have it standing there so that you will be able to have the supplies there." When I saw Colonel Hecker at the Manhattan Hotel, I said, "Colonel, take the troops by boat; don't send them over the railroad, and it was because it was such a strain upon us to handle it and we didn't want it." And he said, "No; he would have to send it by rail;' he preferred to send it by rail. They did charter the steamer Shinneeock for some twenty days and carried a large number of troops to New York that way. It cost between §8 and $10 a head that way; it cost §1.16 to carry them over the road. There is an item for consideration. That clause was left in its vague way because it was in the original letter. Q. That was within the power of the railroad, of course; it could not be done without the permission of the railroad.-- Did you ever decline to allow vessels that were used for legitimate purposes, say they had been wanted to bring milk from W. H. BALDWIN, JR. 2475 Long Island, or anything of that sort— was there anything in this agreement or in your interpretation that would have prevented that? A. Outside boats? Q. Yes, sir. A. Yes, sir. You are speaking about milk. Do you know who got that milk? Q. I don't know anything about it. A. I furnished the first milk that was furnished the camp, and I got the first milk for several days that went to that camp, aind I suggested this milk supply for the whole thing. I bought 2,000 gallons of milk a day for the men and sent it there, and it was my suggestion. There was no need of milk from any other point or other supply froni any other point. The Government had a perfect right to run its boats or vessels from any of the sources of its supply, from New York or New London or anywhere else. They ordered their supplies at noon in New York: they were put on freight cars in the evening and they were switched and sent to the camp Q,. (Interrupting.) There has been some complaint made on the part of sev- eral witnesses, and on the part of those who drank the milk, that when the milk came down from New York it was sour.' Do you know anything about that? A. The milk was in charge of a man who represented the dairies that supplied it. The milk arrived from the dairies in New York State at New York at 13 o'clock. That is night's milk. It was hauled over to our Long Island City depot and arrived there about 1 o'clock. Q. In the morning? A. Two o'clock in the morning. It left there at 4 o'clock and was at Montauk at 8.80 or 9 o'clock, in refrigerator cars that were always used, and the statement that the milk arrived there sour is false. Q. I don't know that it was claimed that that was habitual, but there may have been instances? A. I never heard of it, and I was right in touch with it. The difficulties were that they had more milk than they could use, and the car was obliged to stand on the track and stay over night because the number of wagons on hand were short and they wouldn't deliver it. and the milk would get there one day and I have known it to be delivered the next day, but there was no possible way by which it could 1 )e spoiled. The milk was furnished by the Beakes Dairy and by the Bordens, The Borden Dairy milk you can put in a can in the month of July and let it stand there for fifteen hours in the sun and it won't turn. They will guarantee it for twenty-four hours. I wouldn't risk it twenty-four hours, but it's pure milk. I bought it and went all over it thoroughly with them and had a chemist to watch it to see that it was right. Q. What was the source of the ice supply, do you know, and what was the amount that was carried into the camp daily? A. I can't tell you that, but if you call Mr. Potter, I think he can tell you. He is here. Q. Did you visit the hospitals at all— the general hospital, the detention hospital, and several division hospitals? A. I did, frequently. Q. Were you familiar with the details of the governing of them as to supplies in any way? A. No, sir. q. Then, if there had been a shortage of ice or milk or anything of that sort, it would hardly have been brought to your attention? A. Not in any way officially. Q. Did you hear incidentally that they were at any time short of milk and ice and supplies of that kind that were essential to the proper running of the hospital? 2476 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. In the first two weeks, yes. I sent the milk and had others send the milk and arranged to send men there with cans of milk. Q. What was the distance from Mnntauk to New London, or to the Connecticut coast, or to the Rhode Island coast? A. To Newport and snch points, about 45 miles; to New London I think it is 27 or 28 miles. Q. In the case of a scarcity of milk and ice and fresh eggs and vegetables, etc. . might it not have been an advantage to have a supply coming in from that direction? A. No, sir; there is no place in this country where you can get 2,000 gallons of milk on an hour's notice, as we did, except New York City; and it was a large supply that was needed to put onto the transports the minute they got into the harbor to give these men something to eat that they could eat and to keep a large supply for those who were not in condition all through the camp — not in condi- tion to eat the regular army supplies — and it could not have been obtained from any other place. Q. I dont mean the regular supply, but the supplemental supply. A. In the first two weeks and a half it would have been well if it had come from anywhere. Q. That is the thought I had in my mind. A. There is no reason why it should not. By General Dodge: Q. Nothing to prevent it? A. No, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was any application made to bring it in from any other place? A. I never heard of it. Q. It has been stated they coul 1 have had more milk and ice if it coiild have been brought by boat from the north side of Long Island Sound or from Newport, and when asked why it was not so brought, we were informed that the contract made at the taking of Montaulv for a camp precluded the getting of any supplies except over the Long Island Railroad. A. Whoever informed those persons were ignorant of the conditions of the con- tract, and the Assistant Secretary of War. Mr. Meiklejohn, spoke to me about that one day in August. He said he had seen it in the papers, and asked me if I had had any such relation in my mind. You will see in the New York Herald a state- ment by the Assistant Secretary of War that they had a perfect right to carry supplies from anywhere. There never was any question in their mlntl, but some subordinate might have heard a rumor through the newspapers or some other source that there was such a prohibition and drew his own conclusion: but as a matter of fact a tuglioat did run from New London regularly with supplies for the Massachusetts troops, supi)lies that were sent from Boston and Connecticut, and no one thought of raising the question; it never entered our calculation; didn't have to think of such thing; didn't even discuss it: never was raised except in the liapers, and they talk about a contract that was signed, and there was no contract, nothing but my letter, and they didn't even need the letter. Q. If anybody had applied to you for permission to ship goods from New Lon- don, would you have objected to it? A. Not if the Government wanted them. It says there ''with the permission of the military authorities," but the quarantine was so strict that many of tiie boats that came there were not pei-mitted to come in. 1 have come in myself from Green- port on a tug, and I couldn't get in for two hours. q. Why not? W. H. BALDWIN, JR. 2477 A. Quai'antined; it ditln'tinake any difference where they came from; it might have come from anywhere; they wouldn't let them in. Q. They were not in contact with the vessels. As far as I can see, there is no reason in the world why the quarantine officials should have made the slightest objection to people coming in from the other side of the Sound. They had noth- ing to do with the ti'ansport? A. There was a good deal of something in the air around that place that per- meated everything. I had not the slightest doubt I would have yellow fev(^r. That was in the minds of all our men — that we were all going to have yellow fever or typhoid fever, or something. (^. The detention hospital should have been protected, of course, and nothing should have come in except in the proper way, by ({uarantine, and the difficulty lies with the Government for not maintaining quarantine outside as the first step in protection; but certainly vessels coming in from Boston, Newport, New London, and New Haven, to run in there and deliver supplies, there was no reason for (luarantining themV A. I had nothing to do with them. Q. I asked you hoping you could explain why the quarantine officers did do so. A. That, of course, I had nothing to do with. By General Beaver: Q. There is this, though, in my mind, Mr. Baldwin, that whilst there may have been no objection to vessels coming into Montauk. there may have been objection on the part of New London authorities from having vessels coming from Mon- tauk to New London? A. That may be. No one had any doubt that we saw nothing to look for- ward to at Montauk. We saw nothing but an exodus of our people on Long Island. They said they would go if the camp was selected, and in the face of that we permitted them to go there. It is almost impossible to face the world of things at that time and the fearful tragedy that was going on at that time. It was terrible. By Captain Howell: Q. Wasn't that the reason why you didn't want to have people going there so soonV A. No; that was not it, because there had been no transports in there. Q. It was a nuisance? Governor Beaver. It would have embarrassed and delayed the operation of the camp. Q. There is nothing in that contract that prohibits people from going there? A. Nothing that prohibits, except any outside transportation line in direct com- petition with us. It was always open to any of the Government boats to do any- thing—to go anywhere. It was wide open. By General Beaver: Q. Was it your understanding of this clause, Mr. Baldwin, "It being agreed, liowever, that any Government transport or vessel may discharge and load troops or suxjplies at such dock or docks, and that vessels may take or dischai'ge passen- gers thereat, from or to other points than those hereinabove excepted, with the permission of the military authorities," that the military authorities could give them permission without your permission? A. Certainly. Q. That meant that if the military authorities of that camp had wished to bring anything over from the west shore they had authority to do that without word from you? 2478 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Certainly; and they did. That i.s un absolutoly wide-open contract for the Government to do just what it pleased. Of course 1 didn't want any excursion steamers or these trami) steamers coming along the shore of Long Island and doing an excursion business down there or taking the small amount of supplies which would be tised at the camp, coming there in competition with us in view of the fact that we were going to spend at least $'20,000 in preparation for it. C^. But as to other points, the whole thing was in the control of the Govern- ment? A. The Government could have handled all the troops and supplies and every- thing connected with it between Montauk and New Loudon and the New Haven Road and never touclicd our tracks, and we had nothing to say. There never has been any ([ucstion of that from the beginning to the end, except by certain iier- sons who were misinformed. There was a criticism on a matter of rates that was not covered by the contract on express rates, and a very bitter article was pub- lished about the railroad and the rates charged for express. I was noticing that in the month of September, when we should have been better off than any other time, we did do a little better, i^lo.OOO, eleven of it for the Montauk business, and our expenses in connection with it were $10,000 increased, so that we hauled all the stuff for nothing, absolutely nothing, and we are not through with it yet. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Then the testimony that the trains were from two to three hours late is not true, is it? A. No. sir: the trains that were run to Montauk were run on a special schedule; they left at certain hours and were not scheduled to arrive at any particular minute, for the reasons I have explained. They were run to the best advantage possible under the conditions of our heavy traffic. The average time for such trains, as I have said, would be 25 miles an hour, and the average time made by these trains was less than 2o miles an hour, though they made more than 2.") miles an hour and used less than five hours in the main. Many trains moved in three hours, and many in three and a half, and some in four and four and a half and sometimes five hours, but they were special trains injected to take care of that service. They would start late out of Montauk, fifteen, twenty, and thirty minutes lute, because poor sicic fellows were seen coming down a hill and would bo. carried in beds, and we would receive them, and along the road would take off two or three and carry them into another house, and at Jamaica would transfer 10 or 15 and send them into Brooklyn, and we would come in when we could; we weie simply serving the best we could. Of course, we were late on that theory, but we \Vbre safe. By General DoixiE: Q. As far as furnishing the supplies there, all kinds of supplies demanded for transportation to the camp, did you ever have complaints of delays in this direction? A, We had one; I can't give you the date; the newspaper men said tome that the commissary departnumt were out of supplies, out of bread, and that the other railroad company was blockaded and could not handle the goods, and that was the reascjn. The fact was that there was a Sunday intervenmg and that the sup- plies they had ordered were ordered on Sunday and naturally couldn't have got there itntil Tuesday morning. The next Sunday we took the precaution to notify them there was a Sunday coming, and two weeks later there was a Sunday and holiday, and we took the precaution to notify them of the two days, but outside of that we never ought to liave had any criticism, and after that particular case the commissary department— in the commissary department there was always plenty of supplies there, except by the neglect of some local man. ELEANOR L. COE. 2479 Q. Neglect of some local man? A. Yes, sir. Q. J tliink you have made your full statement; there is no other statement or suggestion you desire to make, is there? A. I only want to say that any difficulties that did exist were all due to the fact that we didn't have or there was not given a notice of ten days or two weeks that the troops were going there, and that after we did start in superhuman work was done, and I think as well as could be under the circumstances. New York, November J6, 1S9S, TESTIMONY OF ELEANOR L. COE. Eleanor L. Coe, upon reijuest, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Please give your name. A. Eleanor L. Coe. Q. Your occupation? A. I was simply a volunteer nurse, Q. You were at Montauk during what time? A. Between August 2!) and September 27. Q. About a month you were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. What duties were you occupied with during that time? A. I was at the detention hospital, in the diet kitchen. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us whether in the detention hospital the tents were very crowded? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Would you know it, being in the diet kitchen: would you know anything about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were all the men proi>erly cared for, so far as you know? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was the nursing proper for them, as you think? A. As much as could be under the circumstances. Q. Was the nursing done by female nurses or by male nurses? A. Male when I went there, and female shortly afterwards. Q. Soon afterwards? A. Yes, sii\ Q. And the care was better when the female nurses came in? A. Yes, sir. There were nine volunteers came I he day 1 got there. '^. Do you know of your own knowledge any instance of neglect on the part of any doctor or nurse? A. No, sir. Q. Were you at the diet kitchen able to provide the necessary special diet for the sick? A. When we first went there, no: afterwards, yes. Q. How long was it before you were able to get your diet kitchen in running order? A. We started the first day and fed about 500 sick men. Q. The first day? 2480 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH .sr.UN. A. Yes. sir. Q. How long before you were able to feed all the men? A. We did not have cooking utensils until ;ibont a week and a half afterwards. Q. But you were able, nevertheless, to do everything that was done? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you able to have ample supplies for your diet kitchen? A. We did and we didn't. Q. In what respect? A. The supplies came, but some of them stayed at the station for want of con- veyances to bring them tip. Q. Had the detention hospital ambulances that could be used for the purpose? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were they so used? A. I do not think we had enough wagons to bring them in. Q. Were these supplies furnished by the Government, or Red Cross Association, or National Defense Aid, or whatever the society was termed? A. I think they were furnished by all. Q. You asked no questions, so you got them? A. No, sir. Q. You were not particular from what source they were furnished? A. No, sir: as long as they came; that is all we wanted. Q. Did you have occasion to know anything about the sick in (quarters in the camps? A. I went through every one of the wards every day. Q. I am not speaking about the hospital now, but the men outside of it. A. No, sir. Q. Was there room enough in that hospital to properly care for all the sick that went into the detention camp? A. I know nothing about the detention camp, but the detention hospital had good accomuaodations. Q. Do you know whether or not these accommodations were beyond the demands made upon them; in other words, whether they had vacant beds that cotild be filled at any time? A. No; at the beginning. I think all the beds were filled. Q. And the beginning was as you saw it the 39th of August? A. Yes, sir. Q. So far as you know, every cot was taken? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you anything to tell us about any matter that is not covered by that general statement; that everything was done, in your judgment, that ought to have been done? A. No; I think I have given everything excepting the want of conveyances for our articles. Q. Were you ladies yourselves properly taken care of? A. Yes. sir. (^. You have no complaint to make for yourself or for your sisters on thai account? A. No, sir. Q. Did you receive other than courtesy from everybody you came in contact with? A. Courtesy always. LEONARD W. JOHNSON. 2481 Boston, Mass.. November J'J, 1S'j8. TESTIMONY OF LEONARD W. JOHNSON. Mr. Leonard W. Johnson appeared before the couimission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Will you kindly give us your name and address? A. My name is Leonard W. Johnson. At the present time — and where my con- tract is dated— is North Cambridge, Mass. Q. To what contract do you refer? A. The contract issued from the War Department at New York in regard to hospital service as a contract nurse. Q. Is it in writing? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you it with you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you let me see it, please? (Paper handed General Beaver.) ' Q. Have you any objection to this going on our record? A. No, sir. (General Beaver read the contract, as follows: '• Contract for service as nurse. This contract entered into this 29th day of August, 1898, at New York City, N. Y., between Major N. S. Jarvis, brigade surgeon, U. S. V. A., and Leonard W. John- son, of North Cambridge, in the State of Massachusetts: Witnesseth, that for the consideration hereinafter mentioned the said Leonard W. Johnson promises and agrees to perform the duties of nurse at Porto Rico or wherever needed, and the said Major N. S. Jarvis, brigade surgeon, U. S. V. A., promises and agrees on behalf of the United States to pay, or cause to be paid, to the said Leonard W. Johnson the sum of SoO per month, and to furnish one ration in kind per day and medical treatment during the period from the date above stated; and it is further agreed that the said Leonard W. Johnson shall receive transportation while on duty and at the termination to the place of making of this contract, provided this contract is not annulled for neglect of duty, in which case no transportation shall be furnished, all of which shall be his full compensation. This contract shall continue until determined by the Surgeon-General or chief surgeon of the Army or in the field. Signed, sealed, and delivered in the presence of Clarence L. Sandies. (Signed.) N. S. Jarvis. (Seal.) Leonard W. Johnson. (Seal.) Indorsed voucher for pay November 1st to 12th, 1898, inclusive, S12. Approvedand contract annulled by me November 12th, 1898. C. C. Byrne, Col. and Ass't Surgeon-Gen- eral, U. S. A., Chief Surgeon, Department of the East, Governors Island, New York, November 12th, 1898.") Q. Does the time for which you received pay represent the time for which you were in the service? A. From the day I was sworn until the day the contract was annulled. (^. Why was the contract annulled. A. On account of sickness. The charges I wish to prefer are against the Quar- termaster Department, coming back. Q. What did you do in accordance with this contract? A. I went to Ponce first and Coamo afterwards. Q. Were you in the hospital, in either of these hospitals, as attendant? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you find these hospitals? A. I think in both cases the hosjtitals were as good as could be, considering our facilities. 7833 — VOL, <) C 2482 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. Q. What previous experience had you as a uurse? A. I had had some in a private capacity. My mother is a practicing doctor and I had studied a little niedic'ne myself, not in college, but privately. Q. Did you become sick in Porto Rico? A. Yes, sir. q. What with? A. Malaria and rheumatism, and afterwards had dysentery. Q. When did you leave there? A. I left Ponce the day my pay is given there. Q. That is the 12th? A. I received $61 before that. Q. November 1 to 13 you were paid at Governors Island? A. I received money before that. Q. But these §12 received between the 1st and 12th of November represent the time j'ou were coming North? A. Yes. sir. The other was made there. Q. Then you had served from the 29th of August, or about that time, imtil the 1st of November in Porto Rico? A. Yes, sir. Q. What vessel did you come on? A. The transport Berlin. Q. Who was the sailing master, the captain? A. I don"t know his name. Q. Who was in charge of the boat or quartermaster's department? A. Captain Swantz. Q. Who was the medical officer? A. Dr. Crosley. He was acting as substitute for some one else. Q. From what point did that boat sail? A. From Ponce, and touched at Santiago, and from there came to New York. Q. How long were you in coming in? A. 1 think just twelve days. Q. What experience had you aboard the vessel that you complain of? A. In the first jilace, after 1 leirig taken sick at Coamo. I was (juite sick, and 1 was relieved from duty. Then I was sent from there to Ponce. I was sick enough to go down in the ambulance, and was lying on my back. I think there were 40 went down at that time. After being there a week at Ponce the J'crJiii came in and we were ordered aboard her to be sent home. My order relieving me from duty had not been canceled, and I was sick when I went aboard. There was nothing said until after we got away from port, and then the racticall.\ ill? A. I don't imderstand your (Question. Q. There were three classes of patients there: those that could be fed with only a small (juantity of milk: then another class that were able to take the army ration; then there was an intermediate class that who, while not so ill, yet could not eat the ordinary food of the hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. And they were fed from the ordinary diet kitchens? A. Yes, sir. Q. After they Were established, was there any difficulty in feeding any of the men of the classes mentioned? A. Not so far as I know. Q. Do you know anything about the condition of the men that came on the Olivette'/ A. I did not se3 the Olivette. Q. Who was familiar with the condition of the men? A. Dr. E. H. Bradford had charge of the landing. Q. Have you anything further to say to us as respects Camp Wikoff, at Mon- tauk, while you were there which has not been touched upon in your examina- tion? A. I do not know that there is anything I can say, except I consider the General Hospital at Camp Wikotf as good a field hospital as could be found anywhere. Q. What have you to say as respects the detention hospital, or did you see it? A. Yes, sir; I visited it— I was going to say almost every day: 1 do not know but what I did every day. I consider that after the first ten days it was a well- managed hospital. Q. What have you to say as respects the division hospital? A. Good. Q. And as respects the care of the men in the hospital tents— you have already stated that? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you anything else to say or suggest what should have been done, if any? A. In my opinion, the Army Medical Department should be put upon a busi- ness basis and the departments of the Army so conducted that it does not take three months in the ordinary times of peace for reiiuisitions to go through. DR. WILLIAM H. PRESCOTT. 2495 Q. When yoii speak of being put on a business basis, please explain in what respects a change should be made. A. It seems to me that the men who have charge of the Army Medical Depart- ment in its various forms should bo physicians who have executive ability. Q. Are we to understand that in your judgment executive ability was lacking in the Medical Department of the Army, not with reference to a single individual, but to the whole organization? A. In my opinion the majority were lacking in executive ability. Q, Please explain in detail what you mean by executive ability. A. "Well, that is pretty hard to tell in a few words. Q. I know, but if you will give us an intimation of what your r.wn views are, because on that you base the statement. A. The main point lacking in a man who has not executive ability, in my opin- ion, is the inability to delegate authority to the men under him who have charge of the different departments. Q. Was not such authority delegated in the Medical Department of the Army in the various grades from Surgeon- General down'?^ A. That is an opinion 1 formed mostly from hearsay and results. Q. And that opinion is what? A. That it is lacking. By General Dodge: Q. Were you aware of the fact or not that Colonel Forwood, when he arriveil at Montauk or within a day or two after he left for there, had full power to purchase anything or do anything that was necessary to accomplish the object of his being- ordered there? A. I was told so. Q. Were you aware that as soon as the order for the hospital of 500 tents was made there was an order immediately following to make it double? A. No. sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. At the time you arrived there, the 17th of August, at that time, can you give me an idea how many hospital tents there were up in that general hospital? A. Yes; I can tell you exactly. There were IG wards and each ward accommo- dated about 30. Q. How many tents? A. There were abont 5 to each ward. Q. That would be 80? A. Yes, sir. By Captain Howell: Q. What answer did Colonel Forwood give to you in not accepting your propo- sition to establish a diet kitchen? A. He showed me where three kitchens were to be put and he said he would not need a diet kitchen. Q. Did he establish these kitchens there? A. He never established the third one. The diet kitchen, which I had the honor to help establish, was put where he was to nut his third one. Q. Don't you think that would be a necessary adjunct to that camp? A. I think so. Q. How long was it before yoti got it? A. Two weeks. C^. Did it answer its purpose? A. Yes, sir. 2496 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Did he give yoii any satisfactory answer why you should not put it up? A. That was the only one. By Governor Woodbury: Q. He finally allowed you to put it up? A. He did not give it to me to put it u]), he gave it to a woman. (^. That shows the power of a woman. A. Mrs. Mott, who was the wife of Dr. Valentine Mott, of New York, and who did such good service in feeding the men who cauie off the transports, went to him one day with Mrs. Willard and said, "Doctor, is there anything you want done at the station?" He said '-Yes, there was.'' He told her what he wanted. " Is there anything else? " " Yes." " Is there anything else? "' " Yes." " Is there anything more? " '• No, nothingmore." " Well, now. Colonel Forwood, I would like permission to erect a diet kitchen," and Colonel Forwood had to put his name down. To me, that was one of the nicest things that happened there. Q. Doctor, you spoke about being obliged to refuse patients admittance to the hospital. How often did that occur, and how many patients were refused? A. I could not give you the exact number of times or exact number who were refused, but 1 should say it often happened, at least half a dozen times, and the number refused perhaps amounted to 40 or 50. Q. Was there any room in the division hospital at that time? A. Most of the refusals came from the division hospitals. I was at the general hospital. The delay in establishing the division hospital was another cause of troiible. Q. How long did the want of care of the excretions of the patients continue? A. In my opinion they were never properly taken care of. Q. Well, how many times were the excretions emptied upon the ground, to your knowledge? A. I never saw it but once. By Dr. Conner: Q. What was done in that case, nothing? A. I have heard of nothing. Q. Did you have bichloride? A. Bichloride of lime was used. Q. Did you have bichloride for bedpans? A. After a while. Q. How long? A. The worst of it was over in two weeks. Q. Do you know whether Dr. Forwood or any other officers of the camp appre- licnded the number of sick that were to come to that camp, whether it was under- estimated, or whether they had a proper apprehension of the number? A. I think it w^as always underestimated. Q. I think that accounts somewhat for the want of provision for their care that you mentioned in the hospital accommodations? A'. Yes, sir; I think so. Q. Do you know whether or not there were plenty of tents there at the time that might have been erected? A. I don't think there was. Q. Were ;500 hospital tents put up there on that point, to your knowledge? A. Threi! hundred hospital tents were never put up in the ditferent liospitals. Q. Were there any large number of hospital tents in the camp? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Would a tentage for 4,000 men have been sufficient for the care of the seri- ously ill there during the time you were there? DR. LAURA A. C. HUGHES. 2497 A. Yes, sir. Q. Suppose you bad h hospital of 1.000 beds, would it accommodate all that were there? A. In my opinion, it would. I would say also that in my opinion 75 per cent of 1 he Fifth Army Corps were not well when they came to New York. Q. Were they needing actual hospital care or rest? A. Rest. By General Dodge: Q. What proportion of that army do you suppose needed hospital care? A. I should say at least 40 per cent, on the basis of 21,000 men. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Doctor, was there any lack of food other than milk and broth at Montauk at any time, to your knowledge? A. I don't think there was. There was in certain regiments at certain times, but the reason of that was they did not know how to hustle to get it. Mr. Gushing and I told a number of the men how to get their ralrious. Q. How much suffering was there on account of lack of food supply? A. The amount of suffering was very difficult to estimate. To put it tlie way I should want to lont it would be this: The amount of suffering of the men at Mon- tauk and other i^laces can never be exaggerated; the amount of needless suffering due to the incompetency of the men who had it in charge has been very much exaggerated. Q. The suffering — was there any of the suffering, in your judgment, caused by the disease to which they were afflicted when they came from Cuba? A. Mostly. Boston, Mass., November 20, ISOS. TESTIMONY OF DR. LAURA A. C. HUGHES. Dr. Laura A. C. Hughes, appeared before the commission, and was sworn by General Wilson. By Dr. Conner: Q. Doctor, will you kindly give us your name, profession, length of time you have been ijracticing, and your residence? A, My name is Laura A. C. Hughes; regular physician, gradiiated in 1895; No. oDT Boylstou street, Boston, Mass. Q. Were you at any time during the past summer in a position to see anything of the condition of the sick of the United States Army or its hospitals, or anything of that sort? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where were you, please? A. Detention hospital. C^. Camp Wikoff? A. Yes, sir. Q. What length of time did you stay there? A. 1 arrived there the morning of the 38th of August, and remained there until the oOth of September; about five weeks. Q. During that time you were on duty in the detention hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the nature of your duty? A. Superintending nurses. 7833 — VOL. (i 7 • 2498 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Female nurses? A. Yes, sir. Q. Had you charge of all the nurses? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many were there on the 2Nth of August, and how many were there dur- ing the time you were there? A. I brought with mo 8 female nurses; including myself, 0. We were to be a party of 10, but at that time there were no female nurses in the detention hospital. During my five weeks there the nursing corps amountt^d to about G8, I believe. Q. Does that include the 9 that went first? A. Yes, sir. Q. There were no female nurses when you arrived? A. No, sir. Q. When you took charge of the nurses of that hospital, in what condition was the hospital as respects the care of the sick, particularly as to the nursing of the sick? A. The nursing was done by the Hospital Corps men —that is, the regular Hos- pital Corps men, U. S. Army, and some malu nurses with the Red Cross had been sent who were, I presume, regular nurses — males nurses; perhaps three or four of them, and the Hosintal Corps men. Q. In what number were these Hospital Corps men? A. I do not know the exact number. Q. Fifty or 100? A. Possibly 20. Q. How many patients were there at that time? A. At that time there were 4 long pavilion tents with a capacity of 36 in each tent, and 8 rows of small tents. 21 in a row, with a capacity of 5 in each tent. Q. There were about 5U0 patients in the hospital — between 450 and 500? A. Let me see; to be very exact, I should think there might have been between 400 and 500. Q. You may safely estimate there were 400 patients? A. Yes. sir. Q. And about 20 men to take care of them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were there many seriously ill in those hospitals? A. The patients there were considered the most serious. They had the conta- gious diseases. Q. Were the patients at the detention camp received immediately from the transports on landing? A. Yes, sir; diphtheria and measles were in the isolated camp still belonging to the detention, and j^ellow-fever suspects and the convalesent yellow-fever patients were brought there. Q. Who was in charge of the hospital at that time? A. Major Ebert; but only about twenty-four hours. Q. Who followed him? A. No one; he followed someone else who had it previously. He had been down about two weeks, and Major Ebert liad charge about twenty-four hours when I arrived. Q. Oh, yes; he continued in charge? A. Yes, sir; he went on duty about the same time I did: the same day or the day before or the night before. (^. Will you kindly tell us what provision had been made iip to the time you came there for the care of the 400 men? Were the tents floored? A. Most of the tents were floored. Q. Were the men on cots or beds or lying on blankets? DR. LAUKA A. C. HUGHES. 2499 A. Most of the men were on cots. Q. Properly supplied with bedding? A. I think they were. Q. At that time? A. At that time. Q. And did they continue during the time you were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there any scarcity at any time of bed linen, sheets, pillowcases, etc.? A. There was a scarcity of literally bed linen. Q. What arrangements were made diiring the time you were there for the clean- ing of sheets, pillowcases, etc.? A. Well, during my five weeks, until within the last two weeks, everything had to be burned, as there was no laundry. We never had one in connection with the hospital. The bedding was sent to tlie fumigating hosiutal on the hill, and after- wards it was sent to some far-ofi laundry. C^. That was within the last two weeks: A. We had returned to us laundered linen, towels, .pillowcases, sheets, etc. Q. Prior to that j^ou had nothing returned? A. That's right. Q. It was fumigated or sent elsewhere? A. I could not follow that. Q. Was any considerable nuuiber of sheets burned up? A. Yes, sir. Q. If the sheets and pillowcases had been properly laundered, would there have been a scarcity? A. Probably not. Q. Did you find the men considerably incommoded by the absence of sheets and pillowcases? A. No, sir. Q. Were they perfectly comfortable in their blankets? A. The average person was. There were cases of bedsores— cases that had, for instance, the dysentery cases — it was difficult to keep them comfortable. Q. Were they supplied with blankets in sufficient (luautity so that they would not be seriously incommoded? A. Yes, sir; there was an abundance of Ijlaukets. Q. Were you able to get a fair supply of sheets for the cases you spoke of — bed- sores, dysentery, diarrhea, etc.? A. Yes, sir; afterwards we had an abundance. Q. Was that an inconvenience or a natural suffering? A. Inconvenience. Q, Did your duties as chief nurse lead you to visit the wards frequently? A. Yes, sir; we v\'ent over every ward in the hospital three times a day while I was there. Q. Did you observe any marked lack of cleanliness on the part of those, so far as the wards were concerned? A. During mj' first week there the flours of the tents were not kept clean, but I felt always that that was due to the Hospital Corps men. They had not been trained as we had in hospitals as to the necessity of clean floors, etc. Q. Had they been trained ever so well, could they have kept a 400- bed hospital clean with 20 men? A. No, sir. ■ Q. Was any effort made to increase the number of Hospital Corps men? A. Immediately. A detail was sent over immediately from the different regiments. Q. Was it large enough to render the necessary services? 2500 INVESTIGATION OV CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir; it was very large. Q. Could you use it properly or not? A. Very well, indeed. Q. Now, as respects the trained male nurses, were tliey of any service to you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did tliey continue in service or soon terminate their contracts and go away? A. They terminated their contracts and went away. Q. Were they efficient or inefficient as a body? A. The Red Cross men were qviite efficient. Q. Did you observe in your various visits that proper care was or was not being exercised in the removal of the excreta of the men? A. Yes, sir; j)roper care was not exercised at first. The Hospital Corps men knew nothing about the conditions of typhoid fever, etc. Q. Was there any disinfection of the excreta when you were there? A. There was an abundance of chloride of lime, but the men did not linow how to use it. Q. Were there receptacles of the bed excreta left open in the wards? A. There were no receptacles for the excreta the first week. It was thrown between the tents until we exj^lained to the men the danger. Q. Were there not even bedpans? A. There were bedpans, but the men continually emptied the bedpans between the tents. I used to get it all over my boots; but as soon ;is we talked to I hem and explained to them the danger they were emptied elsewhere, i^roviding that man was left on duty the next day, but if he was put on i^olice duty and another sent, we had another to train. Q. Was the surgeon in charge acquainted with the fact that the excreta was being dropped between the tents and alongside the tents? A. I do not think so. Q. Was any formal complaint made flo him by yourself or anyone? A. Yes, sir; and he endeavored to stop it immediately. Q. How long did it take to change that condition? A. Three or four or five days, on account of the change of details. Q. After this? A. After one week we had no difficulty, and Major Ebert secured ash barrels, that were put outside the tents always. As soon as Major Ebert learned of this he made every effort to secure iron ash barrels, and they were emptied three times a day. Q. Did any serious inconvenience arise after the time you spoke of? A. No, sir. Q. Were the tents overcrowded? A. Never for twenty-four hours at a time. They might have been for four or five hours. Q. Did you at any time see men lying out in the open? A. That never occurred in the detention hospital during my time. Q. Was there sufficient tentage to answer all re(iuirements? A. Always. Q. Do you know whether or not a sufficient supply of medicines was on hand in that hospital? A. That is a very hard question to answer. As you know, as a medical man, every doctor has his hobby. The day I went there one patient was dying and no one had a hypodermic syringe or a catheter for two weeks, and the ordinary things the women took with'them. Q. Are we to understand that two weeks went by without any doctor supplying himself with a hypodermic syringe? DR. LAURA A. ('. HUGHES. 2501 A. They seemed to have none. After that there was an abundance. Q. Do you know whether or not there were in the hospital chests a siifficient quantity of hypodermic syringes and catheters to answer all requirements? A. At that time I did not know the contents of the hospital chest. Q. if they were in the chests, they were not taken outV A. They might have been taken out and appropriated. Q. How many doctors were in the hospital at tlie time you arrived for 450 patients? A. I ought not to answer that question, for I really do not know — i^erhaps six or seven. Q. Do you know while you were there there was an actual scarcity of doctors? A. I am sure not while 1 was there; there was a scarcity of nurses. Q. Were they efficient and attentive? A. Fairly so. Q. Starting from the officers in charge and going down to the last appointed contract doctor, how many of those doctors were properly qualified to take charge of the sick in the hospitals? A. Of course Major Ebert was very well qualified. At the time I went there there was a Dr. McAbbott, from probably a transport. I think he was a regular Navy man, and he was volunteering his services in the emergency, and was a very capable man. I found there were three or four others who were capable and some that were, like many doctors you wotild meet anywhere, more or less faddish. Q. Did you of your own knowledge become aware of the fact that some doctors were not competent to perform their duties because of their habits? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many? > A, One. Q. Will you be kind enough to write out his name at your convenience? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether any action was taken to relieve the hospital of this individual? A. I understood — in fact, Major Ebert told me he sent for him to annul his con- tract. He was out of the camp at the time, and he presented his compliments and said he was ordered to Porto Rico. Q. You did not know anything after that? A. No, sir; there were two others had their contracts ;innulled. Q. On account of inefficiency or drunkenness or what? A. Peculiarity, perhaps. Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, of any instance of gross neglect on the part of anyone in reference to any sick man in the hosisital? A. This surgeon I spoke of, who did not give the Major a chance to annul his contract, at one time neglected part of his ward for thirty-five hours, but that was not known otitside the ward. Q. Was the capacity of the hospital at all times sufficient to r(^ceive the seriously ill as often as they arrived? A. We were obliged to put men on floors instead of cots perhaps twice in the five weeks over night, and the next morning the rush was relieved, and those on the floor were transferi-ed to another hospital. Q. Did you see men sent away on furlough? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know in what condition they were when they left? A. I'es, sir. Q. Were there any men sent away who should have been retaintjd and not sent away? 2502 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WATl WITH SPAIN. A. If we had had tiie accominodatiuu of n city institution, it would have been much better to have kept these convalescents longer, but in a temporary hospital, as that was, that coald not be arranged, I might say, any better than it was. Q. Was not that hospital so organized and administered that it was possible to take all necessary care of the sick that were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then why should they have been sent away because of things lacking that might have been found in an ordinary city hospital? A. We expected more from the transports, and we must have the room of the men who were in a fair condition to travel. The public demand was so great that the men had to be removed. Q. Ai'e we to understand, in your opinion, many men were furloughed, not because it was right and proper, but because of the importunity of friends and relatives and officers? A. And their own demand; yes, sir. Q. Was there much pressure brought to bear upon the surgeon in charge of that hospital to discharge men, do you know? A. At one time we had orders given to tlie surgeon in charge of the hospital to transfer them to other hospitals, and he was, of course, obliged to comply with the orders, and that pressure was brought to bear. Q. Did he send away men unfit to travel? A. Yes, sir; in compliance with orders. Q. No order Avould have been issued to compel him to send awaj' a man who was not in a condition to travel? A. 1 think we all felt at the time that many of the men who were transferred were not in a condition to travel. Q. Was this order received from Washington, or from the surgeon in chief at the Point? A. It was very difficult for ns to find out where the order came from. The next immediate officer above Major Ebert was Colonel Forwood, but we understand ho got it from higher authority. Q. You had not in the detention hospital — you had no man brought in from the camps; they were sick meo brouglit from transports? A. We had them from the camps also. Q, What was the object of the detention hospital? A. After about the second week we were not in (juaranti ne — perhaps three weeks; people wex*e allowc d to go and come without passes. Q. That quarantine was raised? A. About the third week in September. Q. About that time it became a general liospital practically!' A. Yes, sir. The time the Ninth Massachusetts were in camp several of their men came from the camp. Q. Governor Woodbury asks in regard to what you have just said in regard to the men you thought not fit to travel. As I understood, they were transferred to other hospitals and not given fuidoughs outright? A. Yes, sir. Q. In order to clear the way for other patients coming in? A. Partly that and partly on account of the orders not to admit any more to the detention, and perhaps th(> pul)lic clamor about the ecjuinox. Q. Did I understand you to say that an order was issued nut to receive any more men in the detention hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. About what time? I DR. LAURA A. C. HUGHES. 2503 A. About the fourth week. Q. What was the reason for closing up the hospital? A. I don't know, sir. Q. Do you know whether or not these transfers were made because other various hospitals asked that men might be sent to them, and because it was thought that they would do better in these hospitals than in the detention hospital? A. The reason at the time was that the Government paid §1,000 a day for the SJiinnccock and the vessel must be filled up, when we olijected. Q. And yet they were sent because the ship was under contract and therefore she must be used; is that it? A. That was the answer that we got. Q. Do you know of any instance of men being refused admittance to the deten- tion camp who had been brought there from the various camps in the vicinity? A. I know of but one or two cases, and that was the last week, perhaps, when we were really cut down in the help, and they were sent to the general hospital. Q. You don't know, then, of any cases of that sort occurring during the first two or three weeks of your stay there? , A. I don't know of any. Q, Did you find that your nurses during the time you were there were efficient? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did they carry out your orders thorotighly? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did the men suffer in any respect because of neglect on the part of your nurses? A. No, sir; there was one complaint about one of the Red Cross men nurses once and his contract was annulled the next day. He was a graduate of Belle vue. The female nurses preferred to stay there rather than be transferred. Q. So far as you observed, was there anything left unilone that could have been done, or was there anything done that should not have been done? A. The transfer of patients in all stages of suffering, I think should not have been done at that time; otiierwise I think they had very good care. Q. What objections, if any, did the men make to their transfer? Did you hear them? A. Yes, sir; many of them objected very seriously. The New England patients objected to being transferred to New York, Pennsylvania, and Fort, Myer. when they were liable to go. When taken aboard the Shinnecock we had a number of Illinois and Michigan volunteers, and they objected to being taken to New London and dropped off at Memorial Hospital. Q, Was that on account of the place to which they were going, or anywhere at all? A. The place. Q. They were ready enough to leave if they could go where they wanted? A. Yes, sir. T have a letter from Major Ebert. who speaks of the work of the nursing force there. Q. Was your diet kitchen early established after you went there? A. Yes, sir; I have a report of Major Ebert. i started it myself. Q. Will you leave a copy of that report with us? (Rei)ort handed to Dr. Conner). Detention Hospital, Camp Wikoff, Septevibcr 10, ISdS. To the SlTRGEON IN CHARGE OF DETENTION HOSPITAL. Respected Sir: I herewith submit the record of the work of women nurses at this hospital to date. On Sunday, August 28, 1808, I brought nine graduate nui'ses, which 1 had selected with care. They were. I believe, the first women 2504 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. nurses who came to aetentiou hospital. We were received most cordially by the officers in charge. A large tent, cots, mattresses, blankets, water, and a basin were i^rovided at once. We found four long pavilion-tent wards, with capacity for about thirty-six patients in each, and three rows of small tents on the hill. Each tent averaged five patients, and there were twenty of these small tents in each row. One nurse was assigned to each pavilion tent, one to each row of small tents, one started a diet kitchen, and the ninth (myself) took general supervision of nurses, with nursing especially sick ones, and helping out generally. The next day, August 29, six graduate nurses arrived from New York, New wards had been erected during the twenty-four hours and new patients admitted. So far as the nurses could be distributed two were assigned to each ward, their duties being to carry out the doctor's orders and be responsible for the cleanliness of the patients, and the wards and the feeding also, the same as in all large, well- appointed hospitals. August 30.— More nurses came in answer to telegrams. They, like the New York nurses, were comfortably settled by night, with sufficient bedding, etc. More wards had been erected and these nurses went on duty wherever most needed. Sejitember 7.— Sixteen nurses came from Michigan, eleven of whom were imme- diately assigned to night duty, it being the first time we could spare a woman for such duty. The women on duty during the day had remained on until any hour at night that their services were required. Sci^tonber J. —More nurses arrived, more pavilions up, and the nurses were assigned to the places most needed. Since Sunday. August 38, no tent has been without a woman nurse. Now that we have a larger number of nurses, more detail can be attended to, which could not be done at first. At present writing there are 14 pavilion tents, with a corps of 50 nurses. Of this number 14 are on night duty, one for each pavilion. There are yet a few convalescent patients on the hill, in small tents, who are attended during the day by two graduate nurses, but who are not ill enough to require a woman night nurse. Whenever a doctor has asked for a " special " (nurse) he has had it. The work has grown rapidly in all department;^. The diet kitchen has now two trained nurses and two untrained women helpers on duty, besides some Regu- lar Army men, who have been detailed to help. Nothing is wasted, and every- thing can be had for the asking. Soldiers, doctors, and nurses have but to ask. Care is taken not to give convalescents injudicious diet when they stray into the diet kitchen. So far as possible, and with exceptions of einergencies,^ which arise when nurses are taken ill or needed for '-specials,"' we try to keep the nurses at the same post, so as to facilitate matters and harmony all around. Considering the rapid growth of the work, .ind the fretiuent emergencies which of necessity must arise in a hospital like this, everything has run fairly smooth. I have to report two nurses on the sick list to-day, and two who have resigned on account of ill health. Respectfully submitted. Laura A. C. Hughes, M. D., Superintendent of Nurses. True copy of report handed to Maj. Rudolph (I. Ebert, surgeon. United States Army, surgeon in charge detention hospital. Camp Wikoff, at Montauk Point, Long Island, New York, from August 28, 1898. GEN. ADELBEBT AMES. 2505 Boston, Mass., November 20, ISOS, TESTIMONY OF GEN. ADELBERT AMES. Gen, Adelbert Ames was broxight before the commission. Being asked if lie had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no," he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Your name? A. Adelbert Ames. Q. Residence? A. Lowell, Mass. Q. What rank, if any, did you hold during the war with Spain, and what pre- vious military experience did j-ou have? A. I was brigadier-general of volunteers in the war with Spain. My previous mil- itary history: Appointed at West Point in 1856,gradi-iated in 1861; in the civil war, an. As to personal acrimony, I do not care about that. But was there agree- ment as to the facts in the case, as to the lack of a sufficiency of medical supplies? A. There was a deficiency of medical supplies, and the "suffering," one of the words which Colonel Forwood used, is due to the fact— is the claim— that Major Wood had not done his duty in making his requisitions and gathering in the sup- plies. Whether there was any suffering or not. of course it was not for me to ascertain: but they seemed to agree between them that there was a deficiency. I think there is no question about that. Q. Between Colonel Forwood and Major Wood? A. Yes. Q. You were not in the storehouse? A. No: I was not capable of telling what was in store, or whether the right kind of medicine. By General Dodge: Q. I understand there might have been plenty of medicine at Montauk Point? A. My action was to ascertain what the regimental surgeons had for use with the regiments, and they claim, as their reports show, which I forwarded, that they were deficient in medicine. General Wheeler, who was division commander, acquiesced in their statements and admitted the report that he had attempted to get medicines and failed, and when I forwarded these various reports to (^olonel Forwood, Forwood's reply was that Wood had not made proper effort to get med- icines. Q. He claimed he had plenty of medicines on hand that might have been issued from proper requisition? A. I have a copy of Forwood's letter here. He said they were not at Wikoff, but at New York City. 2508 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By General Beaver: Q. Did you say you had Forwoods letter with youV A. In my report. I have a (•oi)y of my report. Q. We shall be glad to have that, General, if you will give it to us. A, The whole thing is in my report as I wrote it. Q. We would like the iiart containing Colonel Forwood"s statennnit in regard to the reports from your regimt-ntal surgeons, indorsed l)y the division surgeons. A. I say in my report: " The situation is easily observed by the letter of colonel and assistant surgeon- general in charge, W. H. Forwood, of September o, in reply to my letter of inquiry concerning the distribution of medicines and medical supplies i^revious to the 28th of August. He says— this is Colonel Forward— ' There has been no depot of medical supplies here and whatever was given out came from the liberal quan- tities ordered for hospital use:' that is, the regiments got their medicine from that ordered for hospital use; the camps out of detention applied to the general hospital and those in detention applied to the detention hospital. I have been informed by those officers that they complied, as far as practicable, with every refjuest made by the surgeon in charge of the sick in camp. When the troops landed here they were short of medicines, medical stores, and appliances. It was the duty of the regimental, brigade, and division surgeons to make daily requisi- tions through proper channels and ol)tain a new supply for tlieir command. " The report of the general surgeon. First Division, that there was a lack of these things in his command only implies the necessity of these and shows that he failed to a;'t promptly in this matter. The distress and suffering Vvdiicli prevailed in Major Wood's command failed to appeal to his sympathies or to enlist his prompt assistance. The leave — Major Wood had applied for leave of absence— was prop- erly refused by General Wheeler. After considerable effort we succeeded in getting him to send in a requisition for supplies that was approved without alter- ation, and sent to the depot in New Yorlc, with authority to issue at once ail requi- sitions for medical officers, for whatever command; they were approved and forwarded in the same way. As soon as it was iiossible to organize the division ho:;pital this was ordered, and to hasten the arrival of supplies extraordinary measures were taken, and on August 29 four cnrloacls were ordered by telegraph and reached this point on September 2 in chargo of special messenger. The regi- ment brigade allowed regiments light and other articles to be obtained at the cjuartermaster's depot. " That is a copy from his reply to Major Wood. Q. He didn't state whether or not he had supplies for his general hospital— a sui^ply of medicines and liiedical supplies for his general liospital? A. No: he didn't. That is Q. You didn't inquire? A. No; I was not called upon to do that. Q. Do you know when the lack of medicines and supplies, complained of by Major Wood, was supplied by the reply to his requisitions sent to New York? A. I think the supplies came in very soon after this. My incjuiry ended on the 3Sth. I think about the 1st of Septeml>er they came in; liow much, or how exten- sively, I don't know. Q. Was there any complaint after that time on the part of the medical authori- ties as to lack of supplies? A. I think there were none. By General Dodge: Q. Do you remember whether this matter was taken up or not by General Wheeler and others at Camp Wikoff? A. Before I made my report (leneral Wheeler had gone and General Bates was GEN. ADELBEliT AMES. 2509 in command, so that that camp was rapidly dispersing at that time. The troops were going away. Q. This dispatch referred to is Montauk Point, August :5U, 1898, which appears to have been General Sternberg's. He appears to have talvcn this up August 28. A. Yes, sir. Q. General Wheeler sends this dispatch: " Forvvood has shown me Colonel Wood's telegram and his reply. Wood and all division surgeons told me to-day they had no difSculty in getting medicines for respective divisions. Reason Wood did not get medicines was he did not send for them as directed by myself. Wood can get all the supplies he needs." That is August 30? A. That was after the 28th. Q. In answer to the dispatch of August 28? A. I think myself they had no trouble after that time. Q. The letter of Colonel For wood would seejii to indicate that the siTi)plies came in answer to Major Wood's reciuisition about the 2d of September? A. Aijparently. Q, Colonel For wood, in his statement to General Sternberg, here claims there was plenty on hand there. All they had to do was to go and get them at the hos- pital? A. This is the letter to Sternberg. I have his letter here that I wrote. I think that is rather more accurate at that time. Q. From your knowledge of the conditions as they existed at Camp Wikoflt', General, state whether or not the commissary and quartermaster's departmeiits were efficiently administered and whether or not they contributed to the extent of efficiency to the welfare of the troops at the time and subsequent to the time of their arrival. A. These departments did very well there. There were deficiencies, partly due to the bad condition of the roads. An immense quantity of material had to come in, but there was no serious stealing, in my judgment. Q. Was the care and provision made for the reception of the troops greater or less than troops ordinarily receive in a time of war? A, They were greater. Q. They were based on the well-known condition of the troops about to arrive from the South, I suppose? A. I doubt if the condition of the troops is understood. I think General Wheeler testified there were not 10 per cent well; in fact, they were about all sick, and the majority helpless, but they were very well cared for. Q. The fact that the tents wei-e all pitched and floors in them— that provision had been made in view of the fact that they were coming, to a greater or less extent, broken up? A. Yes. Q. Ordinarily— the public do not understand this, but we understand it— ordi- narily, if they had come from a distance and gone into camp they would have carried their tents with them and put them up themselves? A. Yes, sir. Q. The Government had provided for them better than usual, then? A. Exactly. Q. With the knowledge that you had, General, and your previous experience, what additional provision could have been made by the Government for the com- fort and health of those men coming from the South that was not made— putting yourself, if you can, in the situation of the heads of departments, with the knowl- edge which they had at the time? ' •'• ' A. Well, I don't know. It is hardly fair to go over the ground now and attempt to criticise. I might have made tent floors. Some troops had those; others didn't. 2510 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN, How extensive that deficiency was I don't know. I made no effort to ascertain those facts. I suppose the only serious deficiency miyht have been the medicine— that is, if we are to accept what Major Wood and Colonel Forwood speak of as distress and suffering as a fact. Of course, if, as 1 have suggested elsewhere in my official report— if medicines could have been brought down by water and steamboat and have reached Wikoff. and the medicines distrilmted as from any wholesale store in New York or Philadelphia, and distributed at the very ho.-pi- tals: but whether troops actually suffered, as i^hysicians seem to think, or surgeons seem to think, for want of medicine I am not prepared to say. Q. So that whatever lack there may have been in those supplies you would attribute largely to the matter of transportation? A. 1 know the Government was suffering everything without lumber for the opening of the camp, and they didu"t get it because of inefficient organization wherever they failed to get it, in my opinion. Of course, I express no opinion as to the hospital, for I know nothing about hospitals. I am only speaking of troops as troops, not as sick men. Q. Have you any other suggestions to make. General, concerning which I have not interrogated you especially? A. No. Q. We are trying to fix the responsibility. If you can help us we will gladly welcome any suggestion you may have to make on the general subject. A. I am not inclined to criticise. We have just made our peace with Spain and we are all rejoicing, and I am so much of an American that I am rather inclined to pass over these deficiencies now and stand by my country and let these small things pass. Of course, as military men, Y>'e all have our opinions about things in general and in particular, but I can not suggest anything that you gen- tlemen don't know all about. If I could, I do not want to. Q. That is all right. Boston, Mass., November ^39. TESTIMONY OF DK. E. G. BRACKETT. Dr. E. G. Brackett then appeared before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no,"' was duly sworn by Gen- eral Wilson, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Be kind enough to give us your name, time of service as a doctor, and where you live. A. E. G. Brackett: VV-l Newbury street; graduated in 1S8I. Q. Your residence you gave? A. Boston. Q, What opportunity did you have of seeing anything of. the military details or medical care of the sick and wounded during the late Avar with S)«un? A, I was sent down by the Volunteer Aid, leaving here about the 25th of July, and I reached Santiago somewhere around the ;5d or 4th of August. I dont know the exact date, I was there in the city some time. Q. You were in the city some time? A. Yes; until about the loth of September. Q. Be kind enough to tell us in what condition you found matters medical in Santiago and vicinity when you arrived there. A. Perhaps the best method by which I can now describe it to you is this: In the early week or ten days there was a great dearth of supplies of medicine and of food for the sick. 1 found iiarticularly the most difficult things to obtain were quinine and such medicine as is neetled for intestinal troubles. That, I should DR. E. G. BKACKETT. 2511 say, I noticed until about the tOtli or 12tli of August. You see— if you will wait just a moment — my care was not with the sick at all at lirst, therefore I have to give you what I happened to see. I had no experience in the early part Dr. Conner, Speak louder. The Witness. In the early part of my stay there I had no definite thing to do with any of the sick. The only thing is what I saw in my goings in and about there, and such things as I was thrown in contact with. I happened to know that particularly, because I was asked by White (or Wood) if I could get those things for him, and I know the difficijlty I had in getting them, and i)articularly those two medicines or classes of medicines which I was trying for we had to buy at local places in small quantities throiighoiit the (;ity. Q. Si)ecify what medicines you bought at that time. A. I bought quinine; I bought different preparations of bismuth, scilla. I could not give you all; there is quite a list; perhaps those were tlie most important. C^. At that time you coiild not get any bismuth or any iiuinine? A. No; we could get some scilla, but thought we would better buj' this additional case, as it was well to have all that could be had. At the little hospital at Alameda, some time about the 12th or 15th of July, I know they — 1 mean the Government — had but very little prepared food ; so that a few bottles of malted milk that I hap- pened to have with me were very acceptable to them; and at one time, when I asked them, perhaps about two ounces of stimulant were all they had in the hos- pital. These are facts I am giving you. My work was not with the medical department. Q. What excuse, if any, was given by the Medical Department for not having these necessary articles? A. They didn't have them. Q. They gave no excuse for not having them? A. 1 didn't ask them. Q. This, I understand it, was in the first two weeks of August, from the 4th to the 14th. A. Until the supplies came in from one of the boats — I can't think which one. A number of those things came into the Medical Department, particularly quinine and some subnitrate of bismuth. Q. Do you know in regard to the supplies at Siboney? A. I don't know. Q. Nothing said to you? Who was the medical officer in charge of the depot at Santiago? A. I could not tell you. Q. Did you have occasion to consult with the chief surgeon of the place in regard to the want of medical supplies? A. Who was the chief surgeon? Q. Pope. A. I don't think he was there. Q. Where was he? A. Colonel Lavarre wa* there. Q. Did he give any excuse except they didn't have it? A. No. Q. Do you know whether or not there had been supplies in proper quantity prior to the time you made inquiry for them? A. There were supplies of some medicines, of some not. Q. What supplies? A. This man would say, "I had some of this:" the next man would say, "'I could not get any (quinine for them.'" Q. Do you know whether or not any considerable amount of medical supplies had been obtained from any outside source, Red Cross, or anything of the sort? 2512 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITM SPAIN. A. I could not tell you. Q. As far as you observed, do you think there was decided lack of proper medi- cines and supi>lies at that place at that time? A. Medicine supplies, you mean? Yes, sir. Q. Hospital stores, condensed milk, and various things used in addition to the medicines proper? A. It was very hard to get those at that time. Q. How soon was this deficiency relieved? You say it was at the time of the arrival of the Harvard; do you remember that date? A. The supplies came into the department, I should say, about the 15th. Q. After that was there any deficiency of medical supplies? A. Yes; we had then plenty of sulphate of quinia. We got very little bismuth. We were still very short of prepared foods and milk. Q. Was there any milk to be had in that country? A. Cows' milk? Not a bit. Q. Condensed milk j'ou relied upon? A. Yes. Q. Did this deficiency continue during the whole time you were there? A. No; in the latter i>art of Aiigust we had nearly all the medicines we wanted. There was only one oLher time we had difficulty in getting ordinary medic-ines. That was sometime aboiit the first week in September, when they were sending off troops— earlier than that — sending ofi' a large number of soldiers, and Major Carr said he was obliged to keep a reserve, because he could not 'send them off: without being properly provided. There were medicines there, but, as a conse- quence, he had to be a little careful in using all the medicines. I don't think they were abundant at that time at all. Q. Were you on duty as a medical officer in any hospital? A. ITes; at one started there in the latter part of August, called Centrifico. Q. How soon were you able to i^repare it for the reception of the sick? A. From the time we began in August — about ten days. Q. How soon were the patients put into the hospital after you began? A. About a week. Q, So that for a period of thrte or four days, it may be, the men were coming in before you were ready to receive them? A. We were able to take care of them. Q. In such numbers as they came? A. Yes; it was a sr.all hospital and one started for officers and for such people who could not be cared for in the ordinary course. Q. An extra hospital; supplementary? A. Yes. sir. Q. Were you at the end of the ten days apparently well prepared to receive all patients? A. Yes; we were. Q. So far as you know, there was nothing lacking that was needed for the well- being of the sick after you began receiving them in that hospital? A. Except two things, Q. And they? A. One. those medicines that were necessary for the patients who could not retain things on their stomachs, and the other, nurses. Q, The nurses were the ordinary hospital corps of nurses and detailed men? A. Detailed men from the colored regiment. Q. Were they able to do their work with any degree of etticienoy? A. As much as any untrained men. Q. Kindly disposed? DR. E. G. BKACKETT. ' 2513 A. Yes; they were willing. Q. You had no female nurses at Santiago? A. None at all. Q. Were there many seriously ill in your care? A. I left after the hospital was thoroughly under way, and at that time there were, I think, about twelve. Q, You had no wounded. A. No; none at all. Q. Was the hospital properly supplied with hospital furniture— Ijedpans, hot- water bottles, and thermometers? A. Yes, sir. This was a hospital used by patients as a private hospital. An order was sent for its occupancy, and we used all the furniture there in it. Q. Enough for your i)uri)ose? A. No. Q. Were you able to supply the deficiency by requisition? A. A great deal of it; that is, from there and from things I happened to have with me, sent by the Volunteer Aid from Massachusetts. A great number of things were supplied from that source, and also from similar supplies of goods sent to General Wood; that is, supplies sent to him personally from New York. Q. Do you know whether or not the Medical Department at that time was unable to furnish what you needed? A. No; they were not, except in some particulars. Q. What articles of hospital furniture which you speak of as wanting? A. Syringes. We had one thermometer. A patient bit that one in two, and after a great deal of begging I got another. Q. From the Department? A. Yes, sir. They gave me all they could. They didn't have any. They had only two or three there. Q. So far as you observed, did the men materially suffer in consequence of the want of these things? A, They would from syringes, but not from thermometers. Q. Y^'ou managed to get along in some fashion? A. We got along without syringes, because the Bay State came in and I begged them from them. Q. Any reason at that time assigned by the officer of the Medical Department why they didn't have anything? A. No; except they said, "We don't know why we can't get them; we have sent for them." I have been told that many a time. Q. Was the statement made to you by Dr. Phinney or Dr. Hahn? A. I think I heard it from both— that they had failed to get supplies, although they had made requisitions. They said, " We have sent for them." Q. Y^ou said the hospital was occupied by Cubans. Cubans or Spaniards? A. Cubans. I think it was Cubans. It was one occupied by some merchants and people like that. It was a private hospital. Q. It was not a Cuban hospital, of Cuban insurgents? A, No; it was a private institution for people of Santiago. Q. When you came north, hoxV did you come? A. By the SeguranQa. Q. Were there any sick on board? A. Yes; about 40, convalescent and sick. Q. Who was the medical officer in charge? A. Bannister. Q. Do you know whether or not he had obtained a proper amount of medical supplies? 7833 — VOL. 8 2514 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. No; there was not a proper supply. Q. Please specify somewhat in detail the deficiencies. A. I think there were medicines enough. I happened t(j know whom they belonged to. One of the hosr-ital stewards going h;>me had two cases with him. He told me they had t ) use from that case. There were almost Tinno. of tlie pre- pared foods. No kind of food for convalescents. J can tell in detail about that. On the lirst evening out about 10 men were convalescent, and we found that they were to eat ordinary rations. each soldier, as the steward told me. I said, -'These men can not do it." But there was not anything else for them to eat except what the transport had for its own siipplies. 1 went to the steward, being represented by the Volunteer Aid, and asked him to purchase for the Volunteer Aid all the supplies he could for the use of those men, and asked him if they could be bought. He said, "Yes; if there were money." At that time another member, Chaplain McCook, had asked him the same thing. Q. Of Philadelphia? A. Yes. We then provided those men with necessary food, and Major Banister and Major told me they didn't see how those men could have come home as they did without that supply of food. Q. Any explanation given to you why the Government did not supply the neces- sary food for those sick? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know whether the ship was inspected with reference to its stores? A. I can not tell you. I know this: Major Banister told me he didn't know until just a little while before— day before — that he was to have the care of any of those men; in fact. I think it was not understood until a short time before it sailed that it was to take home convalescents, and then he was informed that he would be in charge of those men on board the boat. He had not seen the men until on board; didn't know what diseases they had. Q. YoiT don't know from his own statement to you whether he made an effort to get other supplies for the sick — those who needed special diet? A. I could not tell you. I know this, that he had no time, even if he had asked for it. Q. Do you mean hours -a i)eriod of two or three hours? A. Twenty-four hours. The vessel was to sail at 3 on Wednesday, and I think he was informed at 2 on Tuesday. Q. You think in twenty-five hours he could not get the necessary things? A. I don't know his position. I only know his statement to me. Q. I understand you that had it not been for supplies furnished with money irom Dr. McCook those men would have starved? As it was, did they manage to get through the trip without injury? A. Yes, sir. Q. None of them were in such condition as supplies on board the boat would not answer the purpose? A. No: we were able to get such food as they needed. Q. Do you know v^hether ice was on board? A. Could get ice once a day. At last it ran out altogether. Q. Y^ou came to what point? A. Montauk. Q. At the time of landing were the men in as good condition as when they embarked? A. With the exception of two or three, better. They didn't land there. We went to quarantine at New York. Q. How long? * A. Thirty-six or forty-eight hours. Then we were released on parole. Dli. E. G. BRACKETT. 2515 Q. Do you kuow whether or not the yellow fever extended from the cases on board? A. I don't know. I haven't heard since. Q. Any deaths on hoard? A. No; a man died the next day after landing. Q. This was as late as the latter part of September or the 1st of (October? A. I think we left on the 15th of September. We were six and one-half days coming to Montauk. Q. All in all, you were about ten days aboard the ship? A. We went on board Wednesday and got oft" Thursday afternoon. Q. Eight days? A. Yes, sir. ii. Do you know of any other facts observed by you while you were at Santiago or on the transport, of service to you in determining whether or not ]n-oper eftort had been made for the care of the sick, and, if not, who was responsible therefor? A. On board of the transport were six or eight who had been sent from hos- pitals on lighters, and all of them had to land at Montauk without any clothing whatever except their pajamas. I asked one man why they had not been given clothing. He said there was not time to get it — they had had orders to i)ut them on board the transport that day, and thei'e had not been an opportunity to get clothes for them, because it took longer than the time they had to get them from the supply department. Q. Was it absolutely necessary that the ship should sail that Wednesday? Could she have delayed until Thursday without serious detriment? A. I don't kuow. She had been waiting sixteen days. Q. Lying sixteen days in Santiago, and not being put in shape to bring men north? A. I think until twenty -four hours she was not understood to take sick. Q. What did they expect her to carry? A. Ammunition. Q. Have you anything more to say? A. One of the things which handicapped us a great deal there was lack of nurses. 1 can only say this, that at the re(iuesfc of Cxeneral Wood we cabled the Volunteer Aid to send down twenty. We were prepared for them and had places for them all. There were no trained nurses there at the time, and word came from Washington — from General Sternberg— no nurses needed in Santiago. Therefore, they could not send them. Therefore, we did without them. Q. Male or female nurses? A. Female. Q. Anything else. Doctor? A. I have nothing else to say. Q. Do you know anything aljout the landing of the men of the Second Massa- chusetts — their reception in this country? A. I was there when they came here. I saw them come off. I saw them leave Santiago. Q. In what condition was the ship for their transportation? A. I do not know. Q. Do you know anything about the conditions which prevailed on board the ship coming north? A. No. Q. Anything of the conditions under which the men landed here? A. No. Q. Did they go to Montauk? A. The report down there was that they all went to Montauk 25 IG INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. You were in Montaiik? A. In Santiago. Q. Do yon know anything about the conditions under which certain men of the Rough Riders came to Boston while in Santiago? A. They went on board the transport, and they were about to leave one Sunday night. The men themselves were in pretty good shape. They were pretty well crowded in: but otherwise I should say they left in pretty good shape. Q. The day before yuu left Santiago, did you have occasion to see Lieutenant Tiffany? A. No, I didn't. I think Dr. Bradford received those men when they came. Q. Have you any statements yourself, Doctor, about the (luestions asked you— any information to give us? A. No; not unless you ask something particular. Q. We didn't know but you might have something— might know something not questioned about. A. Fault-finding is not one of my faults. Boston, Mass., November 29, 1S08. TESTIMONY OF MRS. ELIZABETH BELL THOMAS. Mrs, Elizabeth Bell Thomas then appeared before the commission. Being asked if she had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no," she was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Your full name, Mrs. Thomas? A. Elizabeth Bell Thomas. Q. Your residence? A. Haverhill. Q. Whether or not your husband was in the Army? A. He was. Q. Is he living or dead? A. He is (lead. Q. Where did he die? A. At Sternberg Hospital, Chickamauga. Q. Have yoii recovered his effects since his death? A. I have everything except the money. Q. Do yon laiovvr what amount of money he had in his possession at the time of his death? A. Twenty dollars. Q. To whom was it delivered? A. To Mrs. Goldsmith. He gave this money to her at the time of his death. Q. What did she do with it? A. She gave it to Miss Elizabeth Dewey, head nurse of section 1. Q. Have you been able to trace it beyond that? A. No. Q. Have you had any communication with Miss Dewey? A. None whatsoever; not with Miss Dewey. Q. Have you written to her? A. Yes. Q. Located her residence? A. No. I have written to the hospital but have received no reply. Q. You don't know whether or not she has returned to the hospital? DR. RICHARD C. CABOT. 2517 A. No. Q, She was nurse from a hospital in New York, was she not? A. I think Miss Dewey was. I am not snre; I think she was. Q. You wrote to the Sternberg Hospital at Chickamauga, did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. You don't know her home residence? A. No; I don't. Q. Had you heard from your hiishand during his illness? i A. Oh, yes. Q. From what he stated in his letter are you led to believe he was well cared for, or otherwise? A. I think he had everything done that could be done for him. I think he was perfectly well attended. Q. What you are endeavoring to ascertain is the whereabouts of this $20? A. Yes, sir. Q. We would be glad to help you in any way we can, I am sure. We can prob- ably ascertain something in regard to Miss Dewey's resilience. We will have a minute made of it and will communicate with you then if we discover it. Have you anything else to say to the commission? A. I don't know whether you could do anything about his last month's pay. Q. You will get that from the Pay Department. Have you made application for it? A. No. Q. There will be no difficulty about it. That will come from the regimental officers. A. Yes; I imagine so. Q. Anything further? A. No; I think that is all, unless ytm would care to see a letter which I have had from Major Gifiin, the one supposeackets, and we were instructed to discard those. Q. What number of men had you in your company? A. One hundred and nine. Q. You had seven first-aid packets to 109 men? A. Yes, sir. Q. What became of those packets? A. They were placed in packs, in some convenient place to carry them, and I don't doubt but in the excitement they were left in those packs. 2524 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Did the men discard the packs as they went into action? A. Yes, sir; al)Out 100 yards from the first shot. . Q. What attempt was made to stanch the blood or bind your wounds on the firing line? A. Just the assistance of two of my comrades. They made a pressure with a handkerchief. Q. What was the effect of their attention to you? A. It caused after a while— it lessened the flow of blood. Q. Were your other wounds dressed? A. No. sir. Q. Which one did you get first? Do you know? A. The one on the leg. Q. And the next? A. The next one in the side. After that one they knocked my hat off. I think that was the charge I got in the face. .Q. At what time did you receive these wounds, as nearly as you can tell? A. Between ten and twelve hoiirs. I was shot at first Q. You paid no attention to that? A. No. Q. You kept right on? A. It made me limp and walk stiff for half an hour, but I pushed right on. Q. How long before you got the wound in your side? A. .Just as we were behind the ridge, as I was dropping down in position to fire. Q. How long after you got this side wound before you got the one in the head? A. I think it must have been about three hours and a half. Q. Whether you kept on with those two wounds in your body, one in your body, the other through your hip? A. I stayed and fought as long as I dared. Q. Did you reach a division dressing station? A. The dressing station there was a joint one of the Seventh and Twelfth Infantry. Q. How far back of the firing line was this? A. I was not conscious, but was told by a man that the distance was approxi- mately 3 miles. Q. Were you carried back or did you try to walk? A. I walked al)out 400 yards, then fell and refused to go farther. Q. What attention did you get at the division hospital, so called, at Siboney? A. When I reached the first dressing station they didn't attempt to do any- thing to me. The next morning the hospital was fired upon. I was moved on the opposite bank. I was carried up a steep bank and fell exhausted. I was then under a tree. I found a shady place. The regimental surgeon of the Twelfth Infantry told me to stay there. He propped me against a tree. My own regiment surgeon ordered me to come up under the trees there. I refused to do so? He came close to me and wanted my reason. I told him I was too weak. He said, •• You must." I said, '• No; I was told to stay and am going to stay. I am too weak to move." He said, " We will have to carry you." About 2 o'clock that afternoon they carried me. I was taken into a clump of trees and left there. It was two days afterwards before they discovered me. I could not move around myself, though it rained heavily those two nights. The sun prostrated me. I could call nobody's attention, imtil a man passed by my regiment and discovered me there and had me brought out to where the hospital was. Q. Did you tell any of the surgeons about the wound through your leg and through your side? A. Not at that time. Not until on the OlirclU'. (^. How long before you went ;i board the Olicctte? CORPL. WILLIAM K. KENIBBS. 2525 A. Eight clays. Q. You had not mentioned the holes on your leg or side at that time? A. I regarded them as superficial. Q. All that you called their attention to was the wound in your head? A. That was apparent. That would speak for itself. Q, When did you go aboard the Olivette? A. Eight days after 1 was wounded. Q. How naany wounded were on that boat? A. I should judge approximately aboiit 300 to 325 Q. Who was in charge of it? A. Major Griffin. Q. What assistants had he? A. One other doctor and two medical students. Q. What was the condition, in general, of the wounded on that boat — badly wounded or otherwise? A . Were quite a number badly wounded. There were ,two amputation cases and quite a few operations. I went into the operating room, wliicli nominally would be the saloon of the boat, and ret^uested to have my head drt'ssed. as it was paining me and there was suppuration i;oth sides. They told me to go back to my berth and they would send for me. Q. When did they send for you? A. They didn't send for me. Q. When did you get your head dressed? A. At the hospital. Q. Your head was not dressed during the entire time on board the Olivette, with suppuration going on? A. No, sir. Q. Any inflamation in the other woiands? A. Slight, in the leg. Q. How long were you in making the journey from Siboney to Long Island? A. Nine days. Q. You went into the hospital, then, at Long Island, and how long did you remain there? A. Two days. Q. Where did you go from there? A. To Governors Island. Q. How long were you there? A. Eight days. Q. Where did you go from there? A. I came to my home in Boston. Q. How long were you here? A. For eighty days. Q. Where did you go then? A. I returned to my regiment in Fort Wayne. Q. Did you receive promotion in the meantime? A. No. sir. Q. You didn't enlist as a corporal? A. No, sir. Q. You are a corporal now? A. Yes, sir. Q. When were you promoted? A. On the 24th day of October, when I reached my regiment. Q. That was pretty rapid promotion in the Regular Army? A. Yes, sir. Q. Why were you promoted so rapidly? 2526 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Possibly it was on accouut of lack of competent men for that position, ancT possibly through some feeling on the part of other noncommissioned officers theie. Q. Who was your captain? A. The captain is dead. Captain Worden. He died at Denver. Q. Speaking of Lieutenant Hallock, what was the cause of his wanting j-ou to go to the hill in A. I don't know, unless my gruff manner of refusing to go there. Q. You would have been safe there? A. Perfectly. Q. A better place than where they put you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was Hallock a member of your company? A. He was regimental surgi'on. Q. Who were your lieutenants? A. Lieutenant at that time was William H. Ruggles. Q. Hallet was surgeon; regular surgeon? A. Yes. sir. Q. Tell lis now, Corporal, if you iilease, your exijerience in the various hospitals. What is your opinion, first, of the First Division field hospital, under command of Dr. Wood — Major Wood? A. They brought us in on transport carts and laid us— what there were left of us^on the grass opposite the dressing tents. Those who were able to crawl up to the tent were dressed. • The other dressing station was for oflicers. I was taken there— beneath a little shelter of boughs— and left there with other wounded men. Q. Did the wound from your head affect your oesophagus? A. Yes, sir. Q. It affected the larynx? A. It closed that up. Q. How could you be fed? A. By means of a pipe. Q. How often were you fed before you got on board the Olivette? A. Once. Q. How often were you fed on the Olivette'/ A. Not at all. Q. You went entirelj'^ without nourishment until you got to Long Island? A. I had salt and water. Q. How did you get that? A. I got that myself, or some of the men got it for me. Q. There were no facilities aboard for feeding men in your condition? A. None whatsoever. Q. Had they food aboard suited to a wounded man in your condition? A. They had gruel, oatmeal condensed milk. Q. But no facilities for getting it into your stomach? How long were you fed in that way? A. Since July 4. Q. After coming North? A. I was fed that way in Long Island Hospital. Q. When did you begin to be able to take food in the natxiral way? A. I practically am not able to yet; that is, I can not masticate anything, not any solid food, such as meats. I am obliged to have it cut very fine. Q. Are you able to take other food through your cesophagus? A. Yes, sir; liquid food. I subsist almost entirely on liquids. Q. What was your exjjerience in the hospitalat Governors Island? CORPL. WILLIAM B. KENIBBS. 2527 A. The food there was very poor, and the attendance was not such as could be desired. Q. What do you mean by attendance — medical, or nurses? A. The medical attendance was (^uite good. The surgeon was efficient. The nurses did not give them any attention they desired. Q. From the Hospital Corps? A. Yes, sir. There was, at night, a light kept burning. I asked two or three times to have it extinguished. I was told to put my head the other way and it would not bother. Q. How often were you fed there? A. I used to eat about twice a day. They had a very fair souj); I got that every day. Q. Were you in the hospital at Fort Wayne? A. Yes; that is, I was not an inmate at the hospital. Q. What knowledge have you of the condition of things there? A. I think they were A^ery bad. , Q. In what respect? , A. The facilities for caring for the number of sick men of that regiment. There were no barracks but for four companies, and there were probably four times that number. The facilities were entirely inadequate, and blankets were conspicuous by their absence: there were none at all; so the men slept on the floor. Those who were fortunate enough to possess blankets used those; otherwise, they went without. Q. Did you get any blankets from the time you left Siboney until you got to Fort Wayne? A. I brought mine with me. There was no issue of blankets from the time the regiment got to Fort Wayne, which was the first -piirt of October, until last Sat- urday. There were no blankets of any descrix)tion. Q. The men, you say, slept on the Moor without blankets? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many were without? A. In my company there was probably a dozen. Q. How many were m the hospital at Fort Wayne? How many beds had you? A. About 30 in the new hospital recently built. Q. What were the conditions of that hospital? A. It Avas under two local civilian doctors. There was quite a corps. In fact, five or six acted as stewards; about as many privates. Q. Anj' female nurses? A. No, sir. Q. Any female nurses at Siboney? A. None. Q. Any at Governors Island? A. None. Q. Were all the sick who attempted to secure accommodations at the hospital at Fort Wayne taken into the hospital? A. No, sir. Q. What knowledge have you on that subject — as to their not being received? A. When I was appointed corporal, I went on guard. I was not able to stand my guard. I was released and went back to Avatch. The next day I was placed in charge of quarters and remained almost every day in charge of the quarters. Every day I would have one or two men AA^ho had l)een touched by malaria. I would take them up to the hospital. To have them admitted to the hospital it was necessary to have them examined by the doctor. The doctors were very sel- dom there, especially in the aftei-noon or evening. In the morning theyAVOuld be 2528 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. there about 11 o'clock. Would hang around for the doctor and get him to sign, and the man would be admitted; but, as was invariably the case, they would give them 5 or 10 grains of quinine and tell them to go and lie down. The men would have to go half a mile. Q. Do you know what the facilities for feeding men in the hospital were? A. At Fort Wayne, I don't. 1 heard considerable complaint. Q. When were you discharged, and for what reason? A. I was discharged by reason of certification of disability. I was discharged November 7. Q. Have you any other statements to make concerning the condition of things as you found them in these various hospitalsr A. If the board will kindly allow me to refresh my memory. There was one occasion of scarcity of provisions. When we received our marching orders on the 3d of June and went to Tampa we received ten days' rations. On the 20th our provisions gave out. We received three days' more June 1:5. On the 20th those gave out. We were without rations for one day. We received supplies by means of small boats from the Seventy-first. * Q. Anything further? A. The surgeon in charge of Governors Island hospital— under the General Order No. 116, all sick and wounded soldiers were entitled to first-class transporta- tion to their homes. They didn 't receive that. They received transportation, but didn't receive a card ticket. They were obliged to sit up all night. It was dark, and the men suffered from the cold and discomfort. That, in connection with that wound, brought me down to 98 from IbG pounds. Q. Anything further? A. That is all. Boston, Mass., November 39, 1898. TESTIMONY OP DR. MILES STANDISH. Miles Standish was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering '' no," he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Be kind enough to give us your name, profession, time duri'^<- whicli you have been practicing, and your residence. A. My name is Miles Standish; physician; I live at No. (i St. James avenue, Boston; have been in practice since my graduation in 1879. Q. State to us whether or not you had any direct acquaintance with the medical matters during the late war with Spain, A. Allow me to tell my story, I would much prefer to tell my story, because then it will be evidenced why I want to tell it. 1 have for ten years been the commander of tlie ambulance corps of the militia in this State, a pretty strong organization, correspondmg to the Hospital Corps of the United States Army. Secondly, when the war broke out it was supposed that wo might be called into service. At the time the troops were mobilized, at first, we were ordered out with the troops to South Framingham— detachments of it. At that time I supposed it was going to be my duty to furnish hospital corps men for the Army, which subseciuently proved to be the case. The difficulties of fur- nishing suitable men for the Army under the law are not slight. I do not think it is fully appreciated by the people criticising men furnished as hospital corps men during the war. When we were expecting our order I had a corps of 03 men. DR. MILES STANDISH. 2529 I asked first who would volunteer to go. They said they would volunteer pro- vided the organizations went. When we were at Framingham a surgeon-general ol the United States telegraphed to the governor of this State, asking him to fur- nish 175 hospital corps men and 15 hospital stewards with the Massachusetts Iroops. I was detailed by the governor to raise those men. I was given an office in the State House and was asked to fulfill the request of the Surgeon-General. Noncommissioned officers of my ambulance corps were placed there, volunteers were asked from my corps, and we began to organize and had a number of appli- cations. In the course of two or three days we had 150 to 300 applicants. This uMs at the very beginning of the mobilization of the first troops. After two or three days' time we received a telegram from the Surgeon-Greneral of the United States asking us to stop proceedings. The telegram stated that there was no authority under which Hospital Corps men could be enlisted for the Volunteer Army, and that we must stop. I procured the law, and found out to my astonish- ment that Congress had organized an army of 30,000 men and had forgotten the Medical Department— no provisions for providing any hosijital corps, surgeons for general hospitals, or surgeons for division hospitals. There were division sur- geons, brigade surgeons, and three hospital stewards, but there were no hands for the Medical Department at all. So we stopped the proceedings. My men were told they were not wanted— the Government did not want any Hospital Corps men at all. So we disbanded. Then in the course of perhaps two weeks or so Dr. Bushnell— I think he is assistant surgeon, or something or other of that sort, in the Army— came to my office, bringing a letter from the Surgeon-General of the Army, which he read to me, or a portion of it. In that there was a request to see me, as captain of the volunteer organization in this State, and that I ask such men of my corps or others as T thought properly qualified to enlist in the Hos- pital Corps of the United States Army, for three years, as privates of the regulars, with the verbal promise of the Surgeon-General that, in accordance with an order issued by General Miles, they should receive their discharge at the end of the war. So I called together my own militia troops and made the proposition to them— they should enlist as regulars, privates of the Regular Army, for three years, with the verbal promise of discharge at the end of the war, A good many men were willing to go previously, but did not seem to like the conditions. As a result of the letter about one-third of the men said they would not go. So I informed the enlisting officers here that the men would not go. I was informed that no men could be enlisted by the Hospital Corps men by any enlisting officer except he had written permission by the Surgeon- General of the United States that he should be enlisted. Nevertheless, we started in to organize and to get what men we could ready. At last all my men received from the Surgeon-General their permit, and a telegraphic dispatch saying, " Pullman's car for forwarding." Then I received a request of Surgeon-General that perhaps I could find those other men; my men absolutely were successes: those other men, would they come? So in my individual capacity I wrote to the other men who had applied to me to enlist in the Volunteer Hospital Corps, individually, and aslied him to come to see me and I would tell him how to get into the Hospital C rps. Most of them came. A lai-ge number of those men were medical stu- dents — young professional men in practice only a year or two, but good men; or were clerks and employees— men provided to do any duties of the Hospital Corps. Some of them were cooks, etc. When I proposed to the medical students to enlist three years, with the verbal promise to be released at the end of the war, he shied; he didn't care to establish a record as a private in the Regular Army. So that all the most desirable men that we had we could have sent; I could have sent a great many of them, but they refused to go on the conditions imposed by Congress — in the Regulars of the United States Army. Many others were willing to go — many 7833 — VOL. 9 2i)'M) INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. others. Of every one of those I looked up the record— meilical reference, charac- ter, capabilitj-, and tiiat sort of thing. Before that time the Surgeon-General sent a telegram to all enlisting officers in this State saying that any man recommended by Capt. Miles Standish should be enlisted without any permission from the Siirgeon-General's Office in Washington. That threw upon me all the men that applied. I looked them up. A large proi)ortion of these men were unfit. They either indulged too much in alcohol or had a bad record and were unfit. I wrote to their sponsors every time. The result of it was that by the united efforts of General C. and myself wo managed to raise and send to the front uo men, as I remember. They were men who were fit, and men willing to jiccept the conditions. Many men who were willing to accept the conditions we did not want. Those we wanted would not accept the conditions. That was inevitable, when Congress passes a law with no volunteer medical department condition. As I understand it, there was a bill introduced into Congress after the passage of the original act, providing for a hospital corps and a volunteer corps. That bill was simply vetoed. If anybody knows why these two things hajipened, they know why there was a mighty lame Medical Department. That is the thing I wanted to say. I gave up hours of my time, without rank, honors, or compensation for myself, to get valuable men to go— such men as wanted to go under the conditions. (^). Do you know, Doctor, of your own knowledge, anything in regard to the work done by any of those men you did succeed in enlisting and sending out? A. So far as I know, they have all done well. Some have returned with regi- ments, and, as far as I have heard, all have done well. Q. Did you have any personal observation of any camp hospitals during the war? A. Yes; at Montauk Point, a short time. Q. How longV A. Twenty-four hours or less. Q. Be kind enough to give us. in your own way, the results of your twenty-four hours' observation at Montauk. as respects the fitness of the Jiouse or hospitals for the work called upon to do and the character of the work that was done tiiere. A. Of course I was there the last part of the time. I was not there when the battle seems to have been high? Q. During the time yoii were there what were the conditions? Were the hos- pitals properly administered? Were the men taken proper care of? Had they proper supplies? A. I really had no opportunity to judge very much about it. It seemed to me they were overcrowded — much overcrowded — but as to the care taken of the sick and their supplies and that sort of thing, I had no oppcn-tunity to know: in fact, I didn't investigate the subject at all. Q. Had you occasion to observe the condition of the men sent to Boston for medical care? A. I saw nearly all of them. Q. In what condition were they when they arrived? A. They were very sick men, as a rule. Q. Were they in proper condition to be transported to this city, or would it have been better to have left them where they were? A. It depends upon where they were. If in Santiago, I think it was better for them to come here. Q. If at Montauk, what have you to say? A. It was a very difficult problem to say what men could be transported and what men could not. When I went there Colonel Almy, in charge, said, "Will you pick out the men to be transported? " I said, " By no means.' Then he pro- UK. MILES STANDISH. 2531 ceeded to explc.in to me that the men would sit up there smoking, reading, play- ing cards, and be apparently convalescent, and perhaps utterly go to pieces on the transport, at not a great distance. He was unwilling to say any men could hear transportation, except so far as they seemed better than the others. C^. Have you observed any of the men after being brought to this cityV Has his view been a correct one? A. Frt;m what I hear, it was so. I saw men as they arrived here. I don't know how they arrived, except when on the LewMou. I know that one exception. (j. Tell us how you know about that particular caseV A. There is no need of gomg into the affair as to what happened to the Letris- toii; but we arrived at Montauk Point in the middle of the day. Dr. Shea, phy- siciiin of the board of health, had charge; an ambnlance corps man, myself, and other physicians went with him. We went to the hospitals and asked for those men- such men as would bear transportation. We enforced that very rigidly, becaus. at least, it was the indication of the ambulance corps in this city— it seemed to me a great many had landed who could not have been benefited by the transportation; so we distinctly repeated over and over again to the surgeons in charge that wl^ wanted men who would bear transportation. We wanted Massa- chtise'ts men, but would take anybody that thi y thought proper to send to the city hospitals m Boston. Lists were made up that night by the surgeons in charge of the various wards. Personally 1 went to see very few patients. Dr. Shea went to see some. The acting assistant surgeons in charge of th(! wardsmade a report dur- ing the evening to the surgeon in charge, saying they had so many men who would bear transportation. A great many surgeons, loath to pick out men who would bear transportation, said that cold weather was coming on, and troops coming home, and it was thought best to get off what men they could. So that was the way it was left, and it was determined there were sulficient men for our ship. Next morning, when the patients were delivered to us, a very large number of them had to be brought aboard on litters, the wharf being rather long— not so very long, but they were unable to walk, and we had to bring them aboard on lit- ters, and some of them were very sick men on the trip. If they sent the men that day whom it was reported the night before— if they did that, the transfer and the wharf must have exhaiisted them. Q. How large a proportion of those men on the vesse: were ill when you reached Boston? A. That is a hard (luestion for me to answer. A good many were pretty sick men for three or four days, and many died. Q. That was the vessel lost? A. Yes, sir: they had a terrible trip in coming here. It was wrecked, and they were transferred at night. Q. Were yon in your official capacity present when the Olivette came in, among the number being Lieutenant Tiffany? A. That is one occasion at which I was not present. Q. Have you any statements, further than those you have made. Doctor, that you would like to make before the commission? A. The only thing I wanted to say was that the law and regulations were respon- sible for the fact that we could not send forward proper hospital corps men in great abundance. 2532 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Boston, Mass., Nuvcmber 30, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF DR. HERBERT L. BURRELL J3r. Herbert L. Burrell was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to lieing sworn, and answering "no," he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Be kind enough to give us your name, profession, length of time yon ha\ ■ been practicing, and residence. A. Herbert L, Burrell; graduated in 1879 in the Harvard Medical School; am. i pra,ctice here in Boston. Q. Did you or did you not occupy any official position during the late war vvi 'a Spain with reference to the Medical Department? A. I was not directly connected with the Medical Department. I st-rved undc' the Massachusetts Volunteer Aid Association as surgeon superintendent of the hospital ship which they e(i"aipped. Q. Leaving out the consideration of the present eijuipment of that vessel, which we hope is entirely excellent, be kind enough to give us in your own way an account of your service in that and what observations j'ou made as to the condi- tion of the sick, proper care taken of them at various points to bring them back to the city. A. In the first place, the ship left here on August 6; went to, first. Ponce, then to Guanica. It went out supplementary to the Medical Department of the United States Navy— perhaps as well to say as an aid. She was to render supplemenlary aid in the United States medical army and navy. There were some cases of starvation in the women and children at Chinica, which we relieved. 1 made intjuiries as to the troops stationed at Guantanamo. There were some necessary supplies and some luxuries; and then we went to Santiago. It may be interesting to know that it was extremely difficult to get any information whatever at either Port Ant or through the natives in the Navy at Guantanamo or by direct wire or from Chin directly of Santiago. Apparently all information had ceased, and when I went in there I had no idea what the exact condition of San- tiago was— that is, from a sanitary standpoint. It was very important to know that, because if it were seriously affected it would have been improper to have placed a ship in there. We could have turned around and gone to Porto Rico and accomplished good there. As a matter of fact, what we did in Santiago was to furnish a great many supplies from hypodermic needles down to mattresses, sheets, pillowcases to the general hospital and to the so-termed "yellow-fever" hospital, and I believe other things went over to Siboney. We started with 101 patients of the Ninth Regiment— Ninth Massachusetts Vol- unteers—and of that number 2 died— that is, 1 died in Santiago Harbor. In regard to the condition of the sick at that time, which was approximately— G and 7 are IIJ— between the inth and 20th, the date is not exact in my mind just when it was, after what was known as the "exodus," in that condition which you would expect after a war and with the conditions, the diseases, everyone sicis', many of the officers sick, and it was very difficult indeed to get any definite or acciirate information from any source whatever, and it was only by working very energetically that one was able to obtain it. In regard to supplies it was very obvious— that is, from the presence of supplies. For examijle, on the Relief large quantities of bacon rested there, being spoiled by the sun. that for some unknown reason to me it was impossible to utilize, whatever the reason may have been. The same was true of mattresses. There was a great deal of difficulty, apparently, in getting the supplies, which apparently existed, delivered to places where they belonged. I, myself, think that was largely due to the illness at that time; the DR. HERBERT BURRELL. 2538 inevitable number of persons and the tremendous amount of illness among the troops disorganized everything. Q. What in regard to the medical supplies? A. The medical supplies were not adequate; that is, if I can judge from the demands made upon them. For example, at one place I asked — in fact, I would like to say this right here: The greatest modesty was exercised by everyone there in regard to the question of supplies. Apparently there was no direct proportion to the need: that is, for what were urgently needed; people were modest about asking for them. Then what was striking, for example, in one hospital, I was told they had one hypodermic needle for GO patients. Somethings, as you can readily understand, were in excess, I siippose; at the time I reached there quinine was in enormous quantities. Previous to this time there had been none. Q. Did you have occasion to visit many of the hospitals in Santiago, and in what condition did you find them? A. From a sanitary jjoint, overcrowded; but from an expediency standpoint, all right. That is, I mean by that, had I been in the positibn myself, I unques- tionably should have been obliged to overcrowd them for expediency. (^. Have you knowledge of the conditions rendering that overcrowding neces- sary? A. None, except proof apparent — general condition. Probably everyone you met there was more or less ill or had been ill or was convalescent. Everyone was "rattled" by the existence of yellow fever, and I don't think I can say anything beyond that, because I don"t know; it is a question of fact. I suppose yoii are after fact. Q. So far as you observed these hospitals, were the sick being properly cared for? A. They were being taken care of as well as a man could do it with what there was there. They were not being properly taken care of from my standpoint; but had 1 been there, with what they had, I don't think I could have done any better. Q. Were any complaints made to you by medical officers that it was impos- sible for them to get what they needed aljsolutely for use? A. Yes; and in several instances I took a good deal of pleasure in telling them how they could do it. It was striking: that was. Many of the volunteer officers, colonels, and many regular officers could not understand how to cut red tape, which it is perfectly possible to do. Q. Did you have occasion to visit Santiago afterwards? A. No, sir. Q. Then you don't know the ultimate results? A. In the four days I was there there was steady improvement noticeable from day to day — the cleanliness of the streets: this had all been taken in hand when I reached there, and the streets were being cleaned thoroughly; but, (»wing to illness of two of the general officers, it was i)ractically impossible for them to pay atten- tion to them. Q. Did you bring north any considerable number of sick? A. Yes, sir: I reached here with 99 patients. Their condition — some of them were convalescing from yellow fever, or from what was supposed to be yellow fever. Whether it was or not I have not been able to make up my mind. Others had probalily malaria, a small proportion of them being typhoids only: I think two or three cases of dysentery. Q. In what condition were those men when they reached Boston, as conipared with when they left Santiago? A. They had improved wonderfully — to a wonderful degree. They were liter- ally — when tliey were taken aboard, although able to get up — were almost childish in their mental condition; it was very striking. And that continually improved as they went on. 2534 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Do yoii, as a medical man, think that condition was due to diseases they were laboring under or due to deficient care they had received? A. To both. Q. In what proportion? A. It is very difficult to estimate the proportion. I, accepting their statements as to improper food, I should say that had a great deal to do with it. It rendered them susceptible to absolute breaking down. I remember very well, in a conver- sation with Major Ives — many of these cases I should not have taken under ordi- nary circums lances. Q. Would any weakness that they had become a consequence if they had attacks of malaria? A. The consequence would have been both. Therefore it was obviously wise to take the chance of removing them. Q. As respects — you made a subsequent trip to Porto Rico. In what condition did you find the men there? A. At Ponce — we went to Ponce, Guanica, and aft(>rwards to Arecibo, and superintended the removal of the patients to Guayama Mountains. It was ilii'ii- cult enough to remove them, too, but that was overcome in the first til]) by fak- ing their convalescent patients and thus relieving the congested condition and overworked condition of the hospitals. On the second trip those same patients had improved to a point that they could be moved to Arecibo. Those were the Sixth Massachusetts Volunteers and the First Volunteer Engineers. At Guanica I found an ideal camp— one of the best camps 1 have ever seen. At both Ponce and Arecibo, and afterwards at Guanica, we furnished such sup- plies as were lequested. except with one exception, where I had reason to believe that— or I did believe that— the officer in charge of one of the hospitals regarded the ship as a supply ship, to be worked as much as possible. That was proved, simply because he could have cabled for supplies. Transports were coming in every few days. There was no urgency for the demand. That was the one instance where I positively refused. Q. Did you have occasion to visit the hospitals at these several points? A. Yes, sir. Q. In what condition did y.ou find them? A. At Guanica I found an excellent hospital. At Ponce the hospital I visited was excellent, although again overcrowded. The only criticism that I could make was that I did not think that the so termed brigade surgeons were being pro])erly (^uartvred and looked out for. They were regarded as purely attendants and not entitled to the grade of the position of first lieiatenant, to which they are entitleil. Q. That is the only criticism? A. Yes. sir. Q. Did you at any i)oint and at any time in your visits to the South observe evidences of neglect, mismanagement, or incapacity, from causes of any kind? A. No, sir. Q. Incompetence in the way of causes by drinking, or anything of that kind? A, I found nothing of that kind — no evidence of neglect which should not have occurred. Neglect was one of the conditions, but I don't mean gross neglect. I mean that the individual had not awakened up to the idea that people were sick and that it was necessary for them to be alert. Q. You did find that? A. Man^' of the volunteer officers, men, from ignorance, inability, lack of knowledge of detail as to how to get things, sank back and stayed, as thoi;gh there were nothing for them to do. I found evidence of that sort, mostly existing on the part of officers responsible for supplying troops with what was necessary in caring tor them — not there, but at Santiago. DR. HERBERT BUKRELL. 2535 Q. Be kind enough to give me at your leisure the names. A. . Q. Aa the result of your observations during the summer have you any sugges- tions to make as to a change in the method of furnishing medical supplies, a change in tlie medical supplies themselves, or a change in the way in which men will be cared for in the hospitals? A. The most important thing is to have under the Medical Department respon- sible heads who can act and act alone, without any reference back. Is that what you are after? Q. That is part of it. A. I want to answer what you are after. Q. We are after any and every fact that you have that can be of service to this commission in accounting for conditions and causes — everything, and individuals responsible for the state of things. A. I should say that was one of the vital things: that is, as I saw it — the capa- bility for a man to act promptly and on his own responsibility: I niean in the sense of everything having to be referred back to the General Government at Washington. Q. Do you or do you not know. Doctor, in that connection, whether individuals at Santiago, Porto Rico, or elsewhere in authority had power to do whatever was necessaiy to be done, expend money necessary to be spent, and to put the Medical Department in its proper condition? A. I know they did have to refer to Washington— they did cable to Washington for instructions. Q. Instructions bearing upon what? A. For example, the dispositicm of the sick troops, where they would go, etc. T mean sick patients. And in that instance I practically disregarded what I was told to do. Q. In what other respects would you suggest? A. I think it is a very serious thing to put a medical man without a knowledge of military affairs into a position where he can get absolutely bound up with red tape. Q. Explain. A. I mean this, for example: The appointment of a surgeon who may be a most excellent medical man. but is entirely ignorant as to military methods. If that man is expected to get supplies, unless he is coached by some one, he will abso- lutely fail. That is as I saw it. He didn't know how to do. It was anew thing to him; and those men, as far as I could see, had not been examined in reference to that very thing. It seemed to me fatal. Q. Did you observe instances of a man with knowledge of liow things were to be gotten and affairs managed put in a position where that knowledge was abso- lutely necessary? A. In one instance, where it had a great deal to do with the illness of a whole regiment. Q. Be kind enougli to add that to your list. Anything else to suggest. Doctor? A. It involves so directly that I beg to be excused. I should lie very glad to answer any questions. I have occupied a position where I can judge. Q. For a considerable number of years you have had knowledge of matters medical with reference to the State of Massachusetts? A. Yes, sir. Q. What position have you held officially in this State? A. I st.-u-t'd in 18S1 as assistant surgeon and went through all successive grades to the grade of surgeon. 2536 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Boston, IMass.. November 29, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF PRIVATE J. B. HOUSTON. Private J. B. Houston was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no," he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Give us your name, your present position, and where you live. A. J. B. Houston; I was private. Q. Where do you reside? A. Lynn. Mass. Q. Private in what? A. In the Seventh Infantry. Q. A regular? A. Yes, sir. Q. When 'did you enlist? A. On May 21. Q. Of this year? A. Yes, sir. (.^. Where? A. In Boston. C^. You accompanied the regiment from where to where? A. From Boston: at first I was sent to Fort McPherson, Ga., and from there to Tampa, and joined the regiment. Q. What company? A. G. Q. What captain? . A. Jackson. Q. Give a resume of the conditions existing from the time you reached there. Wliere did you go first? A. From Tampa Q. With the Seventh? A. Yes, sir. I was wounded at El Caney: was taken from there, in two or three daj's' journey, to the hospital ;it Siboney. Q. Please give a full description. State exactly what occurred from the moment you were wounded to the time you reached Siboney. A. I was wounded at noon. July 1. Q. Where? A. At El Caney. Q. Where was your wound? A. Just be^ow the knee of the right leg. I lay in the grass until about (i o'clock in (he afternoon. Then I was removed to the field hospital. Q. How far from the position you had when wounded? A. I should say one-half a mile. Q. Were you carried on a stretcher? A. For a distance of 100 yards and then on the back of a comrade. At the battlefield hospital we were treated by Dr. Hallock, the regimental surgeon, and on the following morning we were removed to a point back of the hills. We remained there until early dawn of the following day. That was the third day. Q. What treatment did }'ou receive? A. 1 did not rec 'ive the first treatment. Those bandages, tempcn-ary bandages, had been lost by many of the men to whom intrusted. Q. So one of the gentlemen just told us — ]n\ 'ceding you. A. On the morning of the :!d I was carried on i\ litter by comrades 1o the main PRIVATE J. B. HOUSTON. 2537 road in front of Santiago, the distance of a mile, I should say; from there by wagon to the division hospital. Q. Any straw in the wagon? A. None: no. sir. It was a springless wagon. Several men died on the way from the main road to the division hospital, in my own observation. At the division hospital I was put on the operating table and my wounds were dressed. On the morning of the 4th we were again placed in the wagon. 1 want to ask Q. Anything you know yourself, as rapidly as you can. A. On the morning of the 4th I was placed in the wagon again and taken down to the general hospital at Siboney. On that trip the men suffered extremely, but there were no complaints. The conditions of the road were such — with spring- less wagons— no straw — and nothing to protect us from the hot sun; but at Siboney the greatest difficulty we encountered was in obtaining anything to eat of a proper nature, and that by reason of the fact that we had no money. Of course many of us were brought back with scarcely anything on, and very few had any money; but we found that there were supplies there'; for instance, bottles of lime juice were seen about the camp, and broiTght into my ward, and cans of fruit were found at the commissary store. Lime juice could be bought for 50 cents, and other canned goods at from 35 to 50 cents, but with no money what- ever we could not get anything to eat for several days there. Occasionally, if you had luck, you would get a i)ortion of a can of corned beef and tomato. (^. Who was the surgeon in chargeV A. La Garde. Under his immediate supervision, as far as one could see, there were about 1,000 men in camp. Q. He was the chief in charge. Did he take care of your wounds? A. No, sir; my wounds were not attended to for six days after my arrival at Siboney. At the end of the sixth day I crawled through the grass to the hospital. The nurses were engaged in binding up wounds, and I had my wounds dressed. That was the only time in fifteen days that I received any attention. (4). Under cover? A. Yes, sir; in the tent; but the difficulty there with the men, especially in my ward, was they could get no nourishment because they had no money to buy. Q. Then there was no food regularly issued, do I understand? A. Corned beef and tomatoes, but no delicacies. They were jjurchasable, but not issued. Q. Of La Garde? A. Of the steward of the hospital. Q. Bought at the commissary department? A. I was told they could be bought at the commissary department, and there were men in the Thirty-third Michigan Regiment, Seventy-first New York Volun- teers, unci Second Massachusetts who secured some money from men of the Ninth who came in, who were fortunate enough to get money from men of the Ninth, and they did buy those delicacies. Q. By whom were those sold? A. I was unable to observe, and could not get on my feet to go out. I was told it was the commissary. There were men who afterwards — one man in particular, who, I was informed, afterwards died, who stated that he put some of the boys in that ward, and if they got back again would advise the proper authorities of that fact. Q. Made that statement? A. Yes, sir; and two others in that tent reasonably sure of reaching hospitals in the United States. Q. Should you judge, from what he said, it was a noncommissioned officer sell- ing this? 2538 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I should judge an officer, from what was stated to me: of course I had no means of getting to tlie house. Q. The only treatment you received during the fifteen days at Siboney was when you crawled up to the tent? The only time your wounds were dressed? A. Yes. sir. Q. All the food that you could '^et. as I understand it. was the ordinary rations, corned beef, beans, something of that sort? A. I find no fault. Q. It was perfectly satisfactory to you? Had you had funds you could have procured delicacies? A. Exactly. Q. How long did you remain at Siboney? A. Fourteen days. {^. And then went where? A. On the City of Washhigtoii. Q. On the City of Washington, were you personally treated very well? A. There were somewhere near 300 sick men on board the ship, and the lack of supplies— tlie rations issued there, so far as the soldiers were coiicerned, they found no particular fault, save, that is. as in the case at Siboney, tiiere were better things there we might have had that would have relieved very many soldiers in a weak condition there. Q. Was your wound a flesh wound or bone? A. Just splintered the bone. Q. Was your wound dressed on the way home on the ship? A. No, sir. Q. Not dressed but once from the time you were wounded until you got to Fort Monroe? A. Just bound up by the hospital nurses at Siboney. I tried to give it such) attention as I could myself. Q. When did you reach Fort Monroe? A. On the Mth of July. I mean to say we arrived at Siboney — I want to l)e correct— at that time. We arrived at Fort Monroe some six or seven days later. Q. There did you go into the hospital? A. Yes. sir; at Fort Monroe; a new hospital had just been erected there. Of course I had plenty of attention, surgical attention and all that. But there Cor- poral Weincoup. for instance, of the First Volunteer Infantry — he could not retain upon his stomach the food issued to him, and he was taken violently sick. C^. You saw that? A. Yes. sir. There was also Sergeant Brown, of the Twenty-fourth Infantry. Majf)r De Witt came into the ward — there was food that had been there three days— and said, "How are you men?"' We said, "Very well." Along on the opposite side was McKenna, of the Sixth Infantry, a very badly wounded man, and as Major De Witt came along he said he should like some colfee. He answered, "'Don't you get water?" " Y'es, sir." "That is good enough for you." It so happened an hour later Mrs. General Miles came into the ward. She had just arrived from Washington. She asked him if certain foods sent from Wash- ington had arrived, and he told her they had. She asked him if they had been issued to the soldiers in the ward, and he said no. It was very unpleasant between her and Dr. De Witt. As a consequence, the supplies that Mrs. Miles sent down from Washington were immediately issued. The day following the condititm of the food we received had very materially changed fen- the better, and we also had delicacies, oranges, if a man needed them. The supplies were innuediately issued to those men. She came in the following day to see that it was done. (.2- How long were you at Fort Monroe? A. A month. DR. JAMES BOOTH C'LARKSON. 2539 Q. Your treatment from this time ou? A. Excellent. Q. And those other men that yoii saw? A. Not always good. I think it was due more to the incompetency of some of the nurses. By the way, if I may be pardoned for going back. In the division hospital at Cuba, the day following the battle, I was lying in the bed, at the far end of the hospital, on the ground, and on the ground by my side were two sol- diers of the Second Massachusetts, one dying at that time. He died two hours after my arrival there, on the following morning. Several hospital nurses brought up from the seaboard were in attendance. They brought him — the man who died — brought to him water, whatever he called for, for a little time; but an hour or two before he died he continually called for water, and they would answer back from the tent which they occupied — one of those violent storms had come up — • they would answer back from the tent, '• Shut up! " Q. Who was it answering that? A. The niTrses who came up from the seaboard. It created intense indignation among us lying there — that is, as the cry came, "Shut up." That was nothing in itself. The man died calling for water. It would have eased the last hours of the poor fellow. Q. Actions of that kind are inexcusable. I want to bear particularly upon the sale of those goods at Siboney. I think some one was responsible for that. This was between the 2d and 10th of July? A. Between the 4th and 10th. The sales were going on rapidly during all that period. , Q. The sale by the commissary department itself? A. Sol was informed by the nurses and attendants. They said, " If you have got the money, we will get you what you wish of the commissary stores — lime juice at oO cents, or canned fruit, or malted milk at 35 cents." Those who liad money were fortunate enough to get them and those without did not. Q. Thej^ didn't have any in the hospital? A. No, sir. Of course the commissary department had a right to do that. (^. I undt-rstand that. What hospital was it? A. Siboney. Q. Anything else you can tell us? Have you been discharged now? A. From my wound; yes, sir. On certificate discharge. Q. What is your profession? A. Writer on the Boston Advertiser. Before I came to the Boston Advertiser I was in iiniform in the Mexican army, and observed much there. Q. You knew Captain Jenks? A. He was wounded through the nose and it passed under his eye. Q. Did he lose his eye? A. No, sir; it affected his nasal parts. Boston, Mass., NovmiberoO, ISOS. TESTIMONY OF DR. JAMES BOOTH CLARKSON. Dr. Jamks Booth Clarkson was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no," he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: ' Q. Be kind enough to give us your name, profession, and residence. A. James Booth Clarkson: doctor: 127 Pembroke street. Boston. Q. In practice how long? A. Since 1881. 2540 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Were you in any way connected with or had you any means of observing the operations of the Medical Department during the late war with Spain? A. I was medical agent at Porto Kico for the Massachusetts Volimteer Aid Asso- ciation. Q. Be kind enough to tell us in your own way what you observed, and give us anything and everything you may have of interest. A. I was appointed as medical agent by the Massachusetts Volunteer Aid. with instructions to go down to the island of Porto Rico and do what I could for tlie Massachusetts and other troops down there. I went down in the Bai/ Stafe hos- pital ship, and during the time I was on the island I was in Ponce twice; in Gnanica twice; in Arecibo five or six days, and in San German and in Utuado six days, where the Sixth Massachusetts were. There seemed to be only light, say general, sickness. Q. General sickness? A. Yes. Q. In all the regiments? A. I saw the First United States Engineers in Guanica, Volunteer Engineers in Guanica, a battalion of the same, and the Nineteenth Infantry in Ponce, and the detachment out at Rio Piedros, where General Brooke was. and at Utuado was chiefly the Sixth Massachusetts Regiment, which was there at the time I left. Q. What was the medical condition of these several regiments and detachments as you saw them? A. The condition was best in the volunteer engineers. They seemed to have a smaller number on the sick list than in any other regiment that I saw. In the other regiments they claimed that they had from about 40 to Gfi per cent sick. Of course I did not see that altogether with my own eyes; some of it I was told by medical officers and different men I met, Q. As you saw the sick there were they apparently well cared for? A. They were as well cared for as circumstances would admit of. Q. Please exjjlain in detail. A. I mean to say there was a certain deficiency, probably a very great deficiency, in the number of what I might term the medical supplies, and also the medical staft", including the surgeons and nurses. In a good many parts of the island sup- plies se^'med to be thei-e, but thei-e seemed to be considerable difficulty in getting transport for them, and this might be owing to the fact of a certain general inertia caused by the general amount of sickness. I didn't come across a very greatmany men down there said to l)e really well. Q. Did you see any evidence of neglect on the part of medical officers there? A. None whatever. Q. How as respects nurses? A. The nurses — most of the nurses — not one-half of the nurses that I saw would be Hospital Corps men. The supply nurses were those men who had volunteered to go as such. The volunteer Hospital Corps men had simply had instructions to aid, and were not sxifficiently well trained to take care of typhoid patients. Q. In yonr several visits to the various hospitals did you notice a lack of care. or. to put it as I want to, willful negligence; on the part of the nurses? A. No. I should not say I saw willful negligence, becatise very often a ni;iii who is told to do a thing and has not been trained does not do it. not because he willfully does not want to do it, but simply because he thinks it is not necessary. When I joined the Massachusetts Sixth Regiment I had charge of the hospital there. We had three hospitals. No. 1, No. 2, and No. 3. . Nos. 1 and 2 had about 70 patients, No. 3 about 25, mostly typhoid cases. Probably not one-third of the nurs(>s employed had been even Hospital Corps men, and of the stewards probably only Olio trained steward out of four. Q. How great a lack of necessary medicines did you observe there? DR. JAMES BOOTH CLARKSON. 2541 A. In Ponce we were told that there was a lack of a good many different medi- cines in the way of strychnine and opiates and calomel. Q. At what date was this? A. September 12; on or about September 12. Then thei'e was an entire lack of clinical thermometers. That, of course, was the greatest drawback in cases of fever. They were supplied by the Bay State. When I got to Utuado they had about, counting hospitals and sick corps men, something like 300 on the sick list. Amongst these oOO there was one clinical thermometer, consequently a great many men's temperature liad not been taken for many days. Q. Did you, in the course of various observations, visit one hospital under the charge of William H. Daly, of Pittsbui-g? A. No, sir; I doift remember. Q. It was at Ponce, I think. A. The hospital I visited chietly at Ponce was the general hospital, in charge of Dr. Birmingham. Q. Did you observe anything especially out of the way in that hospital except the lack of proper nursing, already referred to, and medicines? A. The hospital was rather crowded, as most of them were, but in regard to the medical administration of the hospital, we didn't observe any lack of anything. Q. Can you say the same of the other hospitals you visited— the general hospitals? A. Yes: I think the Ponce general hospital was the only general hospital 1 saw. Q. When you came — how long were you in Porto Rico? A. From September 12 to October 22. Q. When you came north did you bring sick with you? A. One hundred and thirty, I thin!:, on the Bai/ State. Q. Was Dr. Burrill one of the surgeons? A. Yes, sir. Q. We have a report from that trip. Did you on that trip oliserve anything you want to bring to the attention of the commission? A. The conditions on that ship were exceedingly good in every way, and as on the way up — I asked the ijurser — I didn't see very much absolute medical work, I am aware the ship contained everything that could be re(|uired. (.)). Did you hear any special complaints of the men as tothtir care on the island? A. The whole time I was on the island and on board the ship I never heard any- thing from the men or officers except the highest praise of the medical depart- ment. Every man said that under the circumstances every surgeon, whether regimental, brigade surgeon, or chief officer, had done all he possibly could. Q. Any suggestions to make to us here upon the question of medical manage- ment of troops upon the field? A. I have had a good deal of experience in troops generally, both East and West, and think that for soldiers sent and troops required to be under entirelj- different conditions from any temperate climate the rations require some change. I don't think the ordinarj- rations are suitable for the tropical climate. Then the men, of course, very largely of the volunteer service, perhaps, require to feel a greater sense of discipline than most of them did, and they want to learn that life in the Tropics is very much more serious than life in a temperate climate. It is all iinder the heading of what may be called •• Prevention of diseases instead of cure." It is easier to bring disease into a tropical climate than to cure when it starts in. Probably it would be a pretty good thing if the officers had some instructions, •before being sent down, about a climate of that kind. As to handling themselves, a man knows it is impossible for officers to do everything. When wholesale sick- ness occurs, as it did with us down there, the men want to have instructions that they must follow out implicitly and not as they think they should be carried out, not to judge our orders simply as '-fads." Moreover, the officers, as a whole, may say they are not required to understand the medical officers' suggestions. 2542 INVP:STIGATfON OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Whether durini;- your stay in Porto Rico you noticed this readiness on the part of general and chief ofHcers to pay attention to the medical <:ifticers? A. To a very great extent: there was a disposition that way; but there is always that tendency in regard to the medical department of any army-and I have seen the departments of several— to look upon the medical staff in a way that I saw represented in Hartwell's Soldiers' Pocketbook. He says: "Medical advice is a very good thing when asked for. ' Q. You spoke of rations, Doctor. What change would you suggest in those? A. There should be fresh meat as far as possible, instead of salt meat, and then there should be a certain amount of fruit, particularly oranges and lime juice; ordinary white bread instead of hard-tack, and coffee, and milk, cooked; facilities for getting a little light wine and beer; no facilities for getting spirits, except medical. And in addition to that there sliould be absolutely no fatiguing work, as we call it, done in the Tropics. It should be done by the natives. Soldiers should be kept in good health: not exposed in the middle of the day; not unneces- sary marches in the middle of the day; not allowed to get wet more than could be helped, or compelled to carry weights. The tropical conditions .do not allow that. The drills in the early morning, to a certain extent, should be suspended, subject to the advico of a medical officer. Q. Have you any other suggestion. Doctor, to makeV A. I don't think so, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Are you aciiuainted with the rations used by the English army? A. I have a fair idea— if I might refer to my notes. The English army ration may l)e divided into three parts: The regular ration, including 1 pound of meat a clay— this includes the bone— or rather three-(iuarters of a pound of meat witli the bone; 1 pound of bread. Then for a stoppage of 3 pence out of his pay he gets extra bread, potatoes or other vegetables, tea. sugar, and milk. Then again, he is enabled to purchase, at a very low figure indeed, cheese, bacon, butter, biscuits; and that will give him, allowing for a proper amount a day, about 10 ounces of meat, about 24 ounces of bread, IG ounces of potatoes. 8 ounces of vegetables, and a little more than 3 ounces of milk, 1 ounce of sugar, about 0.3 ounce of salt, 0.4 ounce of coffee, and 0.2 ounce of tea, and I think he is allowed a little light beer. Everything in the way of what one may call '• hard '' work is suspended during that time— looking after tent accouterments, looking after his rifle, and a great many things of that kind that a man is accustomed to do himself in temperate climates. And in addition to that, each company has a certain number of old- fashioned guns and so on, so that he can take a little sport at the company's expense, and amusements that can be done to keep him in a happy frame of mind during the time of peace. Q. Any other qiiestion? A. I desire to say in addition that the houses raised from the ground are very much better, in my judgment, than tents on the ground. Boston, Mass., Xovemher ,10. ISOS. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. CHARLES K. DARLING. Maj. Charles K. Darling was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no,'" he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver : Q. Will you kindly give us your name and rank, your regiment, and your at- home address? MAJ. CHARLES K. DARLIN(4. 2543 A. Charles K. Darling; Sixth Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry: Tremoiit Building, Boston. Q. When did you enter the service of the United States during the war with Spain, and how long did you continue itV A. ( )n the od day of May, 1898, and am still in service, on leave of absence. Q. Where did you serve? A. In Porto Rico. Q. How long were you in Porto Rico? A. Two and one-half months. <^. What were the conditions there as to food and clothing and medical attend- ance and supplies for your men? A. Not otherwise than to be expected in time of war in a foreign country. (^. Did your men receive sufficient food? A. No, sir; they didn't at all times. Q. What was. the cause of it? A. The principal cause was failure to bring it up, lack of transportation, lack of r lads through which to bring the provisions. Our course was through the center of the island, over a trail considered impassable by Spanish military authorities. It was, but after the trail had been widened by General Stone suffi- ciently wide for wheels; but wherever rains caused landslides it was simply impossible to bring up food. * Q. Your march, then, was more rapid than th(( piovisions could follow you? A. We were pushing ahead rapidly toward Arecibo, under General Henry. Q. Then the cause of your rapid march— of yotir progressing faster than the pro- visions could follow you — was that you were to gain a momentary advantage by it; for that reason, you say; any lack occasioned by that reason was due to stale of war. and to be excused? A. Yes. .sir. Q. What was the quantity of trains if the roads had been in good condition; had you enough trains to supply the needs of your army? A. I have no doubt; we had three or foitr pack-mule trains; we had army wagons. Of course, later in the service the army trains became very much used up; the mules had soft hoofs and sore backs; we had also bull-carts; in fact, cottld get any number; it was simijly a matter of rounding them up. C^. What was the practical lack in the matter of commissary supplies — what part of the rations did you fail to get, or did you fail to get any of the rations at this time? A. At this time w^e failed to get much of any; they were left behind; only for a short period — forty-eight hours or something of that sort. Q. Was there a full amount of rations on the island to be used if they could have been gotten to the front where you were? A. I think possibly at one time the chief commissary at Ponce was jjossibly short of rations, but afterwards he had great (quantities piled to the ceiling. There were plenty there. Q. What was the health of your command? A. At one time the .sickness reached something like 50 per cent, but the cases were not serious, except fever. There was a great deal of typhoid fever. Q. Had you taken typhoid with yoti? A. Yes, sir; from Camp Alger. Q. To what extent was your command affected before you left Alger? A. Just previous to leaving Alger I was in Boston. I joined one day before the command left. I think we had something like 15 or 20 cases at Fort Mj^er, but on the Yale I think it reauhed to -iO cases. Q. From what point did you sail? A, Charleston, S. C. 2544 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. C^. On what vessel? A. Yale. (^. When did you leave Charleston? A. July 7. I believe. Q. How long were you on the way? A. Nineteen days; that is, three days. We sighted the Morro off Santiago July 11, about noon, and then we ran up and down, coasting from Siboney to Morro for the next five days, and then for the next five or six days were in Guantanamo Bay. We sighted Guanica on the morning of July 5. Q. What rations were issued to you at the time you left Charleston? Do you know? A. I do not; no, sir. I have my idea about how the matter came about. Q. Were they distributed to the men, rations for each individual man? A. For three days. Travel rations were issued at Camp Alger, and then they were issued in bulk at Charleston. Q. What was the condition of the Yale as a transport? A. It was not fitted for the transporting of troops and had no desire to trans- port them. Q. What was she? A. The old American Liner— the Paris. Q. Belonging to the United States Government? A. I suppose chartered by them. She was operated— her old officers were aboard, but had ranks. Captain Wise was captain. Q. Was she run under the Navy? A. Yes, sir; she must have been. Q. Was she provisioned. Major, before you left Chai-leston? A. Yes. sir; she took provisions aboard at the same time we were landing. W' e went aboard about 9 miles out. There was a brig alongside, and we took pro- visions aboard. Q. What was done with the provisions after they were put aboard? Do you know? A. Put down in the hold. Q. Were they accessible to the men? A. They were not. A quantity was got on deck each time. Q. Tell us all about it in your own way. We want to get at why you didn't have what you were entitled to, if you didn't get it. There is no occasion for any reserve. We want free conversation. We want the whole story. A. I am not here Q. We iTuderstand that, but we are here by the direction of the President to get to the bottom. A. I think in a very few words I can tell the trouble of the matter. We left Camp Alger under very tirgent orders to reenforce Shaffer, the Sixth Illinois, the Sixth Massachusetts, and the Eighth Ohio. We arrived at Charleston, ami v>-li: u we got in Charleston we found a hasty expedition for Cuba frojn Chickamauua. It is not for me to say just by what process our regiment went aboard the ^'■■:c and not one of General Wilson's command. That, in my mind, had not a jitt c to do with the matter, the manner in which we set out for Cuba. The first troops to get possession of the Y((Ie sailed. We were to be on her three days, probably. For anything that could be fore- seen by anyone, we would be on board not more than three days. We were on board nineteen days. For myself, I consider that one of the fortunes of war: that is all. Certain it is that the regiment by not being landed in Cuba escaped serious misfortune. We would have caught yellow fever at Siboney. We stayed on board and endured some privation. She had not been in harbor to take on sup- MAJ. CHARLES K. DARLING. 2545 plies since the middle of May. I might add that, in my opinion, much of thfe treatment which the men received from officers of the Yale was diie to the fact that shu hiid captured the .1 , and, being a fast ship, that was her forte, a prize cap- turer, and not as a transport. The men were confined to the spar deck almost wholly. There were 3,000 men on board. Her ice supply was very low; in fact, during the last part of the voyage it was a simple question of ice for the hospital. The men were obliged to drink hot distilled water from two tin cups. They were not allowed to take water in their own cups, notwithstanding we had 35 cases of typhoid fever on board. General Miles was on board during that time, and others can tell better than I what happened. I have no complaint. Q. How long did your rations last? A. They lasted until we landed. They had rations enough, such as they were. One great trouble with the Yale was the cooking for the men. It was obliged to be done in the second-cabin galley. Almost every one travels first-class on the Paris. It was a small place. Finally it got so that the men 'had but a cup or a cup and a half of coffee, a little hard-tack, and tomatoes. General Miles finally on one or two occasions made them turn over the main galley, and by cooking all night they cooked some bacon for the men. Q. Was the storage of the shix) open to the men? A. The steerage of the ship was open, but it was a very small compartment indeed — one small compartment forward and two aft. I think the three would hold, possibly, crowded in, 500 men, but the ocean was like a mill pond all the way; simply some rain, Q. Any bathing facilities? A. Yes; forward the men bathed, certain hours of the day. Later, when in Guantanamo Bay. the men were allowed to bathe off the side of the ship. Q. How many days were you aboard the ship altogether? A. Nineteen. I believe, sir. Q. What was the condition of your men when you landed at Porto Rico? A. They were somewhat weak — rather weak. Q. Broken down by the confinement, in your judgment? A. Not bro.ken down men; no, sir. Afterwards, when we took up the march, as we did, with heavy rolls, I think the effect of it was plainly seen in the manner in which the men fell out. Q. What was the capacity of the ship, in your judgment, for a comfortable passage? How many men shoiild have been taken on her with comfort to them, and proper reference to health and effectiveness when landed? A. That I am unable to say, I am unaware how many staterooms were locked up. There were a few noncommissioned officers. Most of them were permitted to occupy staterooms, and the men were confined to the spar deck. I suppose she would take 500 men, possibly, with ease and comfort, and in addition to a very large crew. Q. You had 3,500? A. We had 1,300: then the crew — there was a very large crew, I understand — five or six hundred. Q. You say the staterooms were locked uij? A. Yes, sir; I understand so. Q. Were those used for the sick men at all? A. No, sir. Our sick men were put in the second cabin. Q. Pretty well forward, were they? V7hat were the facilities for caring for your sick men, medically and from a nursing standpoint? A. In my opinion, as good as could be expected. Q. Did you have a full medical staff with you? A. Yes, sir. 7833— VOL. (3 10 2546 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. A proper supply of medicines and hospital stores? A. I have do doubt we had. The ship surgeon was quite attentive to the men. At that stage we had nothing to complain of. Q. It is stated in a letter which was forwarded to us, Major, that the steerage was locked up and the men not allowed to use that at all. Is that correct? A. I think not. Q. That properly relates to the staterooms? A. Yes, sir; I didn't see that it was any great hardship ordinarily for the men to sleep on the deck. In fact, many officers assigned staterooms found it preler.ihle to sleep on deck. In the month of July you can imagine the condition of theinterior staterooms. Q. You had good water? A. Yes, sir Q. Smooth sea? A. Yes, sir: all the time. Q. Then, so far as the quarters were concerned, it was no great hardship to sleep outdoors? A. No, sir; we might have had hammocks for the men, as we had coming hack on the 3Iisiiissippi, but it was no great hardship. Q. How did you land at Porto Rico? A. We made the first landing at Guanica, on the southern coast. Q. Any opposition? A. Small bomb fires, shelled out by Wainwright. It was the firing at some- thing Miles was anxious to know what it was. We landed without opposition practically. The next morning we had a little skirmish. Q. Were your facilities for landing sutficient to take your men promptly to shore? A. Yes, sir. We were transported to the City of Macon and ran in after the Gloucester, and ran into a little bay in small boats. Q. It is said in this connection that the only place where the men could get into the boat was the passageway leading to the water-closets forward and aft, and there was one small lower portion used as headcjuarters of one company of the Sixth Massachusetts. Is that correct? A. No, sir. There were three small places, two aft and one forward. I think one was known as the steerage compartment, but the Paris carried almost no steeragt! passengers. Q. Was the proportion of steerage to first-class very small? A. Yes, sir. Q. What closet facilities; sufficient for the comfort of the men? A. Yes, sir; I think so. Q. To what extent were the upper decks open to the men? A. The upper deck was open to the men. and then down on the next deck below the main deck there was a space around just about wide enough for three men to go abreast. Two companies were there. The men had no freedom at all with the interior part. Q. That seemed to have been retained for the officers? A. Yes, sir. Miles and his staif were aboard, and General Garretson. Very properly, too. The men could not be expected to go into the library or dining saloon. No one can possibly define the Vale as a transport, but as a fast ship. and it was necessary to get (juickly to Santiago. (^. The officers and men of the Yah regarded it as a hardship because they could be winning ])rize monej' instead of carrying troops? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you anything further to state that would be helpful to us in reaching a conclusion as to this or any other matter? TJEUT. JEREMIAH G. FENNESSEY. 2547 A. No, sir; I have not, I think. Q. How did yon come home? A. On the 3Iissii^sipi>i, a cattle steamer. She had been fitted for carrjang troops by placing hammocks in the hold, and she was in every way comfortable. Q. How were yon provided for your home coming as to commissary supplies? A. No fault to find, Q. Vessel comfortable? A. Yes, sir; very. Comfortable for the men, not for the officers. i^. You have no complaint, then, as to your home voyage? A, No. sir; personally I have not the slightest complaint to make in regard to the Yale. I am here by invitation. Q. You simply give us factF. By General Dodge: Q. In your testimony you made the statement you were possibly oiit of commis- sary stores at Ponce— short of provisions at that time. On what information do yovL base this statement? A.. I can not answer; still I do recollect that at one time, either owing to a storm or something of that sort, it was said that they had not landed, not got there— many things. I know afterwards I was down there at one time. I know while they had the rations they were short in landing other things, such as the purchasing commissary would give, and I think Colonel Smith at that time— he was depot commissary— said it was due to lack of lighterage or something of that sort. But at the time I was there, along in the middle of September, the build- ings at the wharf in Ponce were piled clear to the roof. C). My (luestion was simply based on the general statement you made; I wanted you to absolutely define it in your testimony. It is from hearsay? A. Yes. sir. (^. There was a statement made to us of this kind: On board the transport Yah', the Sixth Massachusetts, bound for Porto Rico, literally starved the men, while the officers were well fed— any private mustered out will prove those facts. A. That is a false statement, if I might add a word, in regard to the luxurious manner in which the officers lived. We lived on canned provisions that might have been in the hold of the ship ever since she was made a transport. We had a little meat. The officers lived far from luxuriously. The men were short of rations, but nobody starved, in any st;ige of the game. We lost about 15 men dur- ing the six months— 15 or 20 men. The two Fitchburg companies. 212 men, came back with tho loss of 1 man. wlio died at Ponce— a most remarkable record. Porto Rico is a healthful climate, if men take care of themselves. They can live there. Boston, Mass. . November SO, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF LIEUT. JEREMIAH G. FENNESSEY. ' Lieut. Jeremiah G. Fennessey was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no,"' he was duly sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Kindly give us your full name. A. Jeremiah G. Fennessey. Q. Your rank. A. Late quai'termaster, rank first lieutenant, of the Ninth Regiment Massachu- setts Volunteers, 2548 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SFAIN. Q. Where did yoii serve during the war with Spain? A. From Massachusetts to Santiago, Montauk, and home. Pardon me, if I Mn-.y say Massachusetts, Camp Alger. Qo You went by way of Camp Alger? A. Yes, .sir. Q. What were the conditions at Camp Alger, so far as your regiment was con- cerned, as to its supplies of commissary and quartermaster's stores. A. The commissary supplies we had nothing to do with at any time. Q. You had independent officers? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who was acting commissary of the (juartermaster's supplies? A. In what particular? Q. Clothing, tents, and such as is issued for service in the field. A. When our regiment left Massachusetts the regiment was completely equipped by the State. Every man had two suits of clothes— a light canvas uniform, a com- plete outfit of the heavy uniform; also rifles issued by the Government. We also went into camp and carried with us 191 wall tents from Massachusetts. These tents were left standing in Camp Alger on the 34th of June, the day we left, by order of the acting quartermaster, and I drew that day a sufficient number of new wall tents to supply the entire regiment, owing to the fact that the new tents would be heavier than the old ones, to meet the climate where we were going. Q. What transport did you go down in? A. The U. S. cruiser Harvard. Q, How was it fitted for the transportation of troops: well, or otherwise? A. I am not competent to i^ass judgment on that question. Q. Your best judgment. A. The vessel was one of the largest ocean steamers, and the men were com- pelled — perhaps I ought not to say compelled— but most of them were on the upper deck. There was very little grumbling, except the long time it took us to get there. Q. How long did it take? A. We started on Sunday afternoon at 2 o'clock. Q. What day of the month? A. The 26th of June, arriving at Siboney the morning of the 1st of July, about 0. Q. Did the men suffer by reason of the voyage? A. No, sir; not in my judgment. Q. They were landed in good physical condition for camp purposes? A. So far as my observation went. Q. Did you observe the manner in which they were provided with commissary stores? Did you have any observation on that subject? A. From the time we left the Hai'varcl; never on board. On the Harvard I think the men were fairly supplied with commissary stoi'es. There were sixty days' field rations for two regiments. Q. After yoa landed, how was it? A. 1 was detained on board the Harvard. Q. You arrived after General Shatter's expedition had landed? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you with the regiment at the front? A. After the day of surrender. Q. How did you find the regiment after that time? A. The regiment suffered. Q. Did it suffer by reason of the ordinary casualties of war or from other respects; and if in other respects, what respects? Make a full statement, if you please. Tell lis everything. A. Our regiment was landed on the afternoon of July 1, and I, with a detail of LIEUT. JEREMIAH G. FENNESSEY. 2549 men of each comiiany, was ordered to unload the stores on the Haririnl. We had oC) men. I suppose :]6, but afterwards more than that; also the quartermaster of the Thirty-fourth Michigan, with a detail of his regiment. We were directed to unload the commissary stores, and the Harvard was moving backward and for- ward. It made it very slow work. On the morning of the 2d of July we came out of the harbor at Santiago. The Harvard dropped to a point off Santiago. On the afternoon of the 3d of July we received on board fi~'3 Spanish prisoners from and the Maria Teresa. We were then placed in charge of those ijrisoners, as a matter of necessity, until such time as other arrangenienls were made. We were unable to land until July 8. We were never enabled to get our stores. Our large tents, cooking utensils, and everything that would condiice to the happiness of the men on board the Harvard we have never seen since. Q. Can you tell why? A. (Jwing to the conditions of war at that time. Q. Who iirevented the landing of those stores, of your tent's, of your cooking outfit, and of all that sort of thing? A, Some of the boats were broken. The steam launch of the vessel was broken and wrecked, and I am not in a position to say who is responsible for it. We had GT2 prisoners on board the vessel, and a marine guard of 27 or 28 men were sent on. Q. Did you make an effort to land these stores? A, Yes, sir. We were prevented by reason of the surf. Tlie surf was very high at times. One of the large boats of the officers the first two or three da>s while landing approached the propeller and was cut almost in two. Q. Did the Harvard come north then, before the surrender, with the prisoners? A. The Harvard left Siboney. I have since ascertained she came north. Q. Then she didn't go around to Santiago after the surrender, so as to enable you to get your supplies? A. No, sir; never landed in Santiago; so 1 have been informed by letter. Q. So far as you are concerned, you have never seen them? A. No, I am sorry to say, because I must account for them in some way. (r^. Were you jiresent with your regiment when it returned? A. Yes, sir. (<^. What vessel? A. Allegheny. Q. What was its character as a transport for troops, good or otherwise? A. It was one of the passenger boats of the Merchants and Miners' Transporta- tion Comi)any, running between Providence and some one of the Southern cities, I can not say which. It was a vessel about 320 feet in length. When I went aboard there on the afternoon of the 23d of July the vessel had been thoroughly whitewashed and was in perfectly clean condition. There was either a hammock or good berth bunk for every man on board the vessel. There was room, but it would be rather crowded, I think. Q. How were the men fed coming on? A. I wanted to say the majority of the men were sick when we left. Everybody was sick. We had nothing biit army rations, and the condition of the men was such that, in my judgment, it was not suitable for them. Q. Was the medical staff' of your regiment with you? A. No, sir; the surgeon of the regiment was detained with four companies. Only eight companies came up on the first detachment. We had a regular army surgeon detailed to keep us. Q. His name? A. Lieut. L. A. Fuller, of the Ninth Infantry. (^. How many men of your command of the eight companies which yon had with you were so sick that they were not able to take care of themselves? A. When we reached Montauk 187 were sent to the hospital out of about 482. 2550 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. What was the prevailing disease? A. Malaria or typhoid, or both. There was such a mixttire I couM not say. I don't believe anybody knows except the surgeon. Q. Do you know what effort was made to secure the stores which would have been suitable for the sick men on the ship? A. No, sir. Q. Was the commissary officer with you? A. Yes, sir. I think we got everything the Government had to give at Santiago. Q. Do you know whether any effort was made to get from the Red Cross or any auxiliary societies there such supplies as the sick ought to have had? A. There were some supplies sent on board by the Massacliusetts Volunteer Aid Society. I can not say whether from the Red Cross or not. I might say I got a small amount of stuff from the Red Cross myself in Santiago. Q. Did the Massachusetts Volunteer Aid Society have a station in Cuba? A. Yes, sir. Q. At Santiago? A. Yes, sir. They did great work. Q. Now. at Montauk, what did you find when you landed there; were your tents i)itched? A. Yes, sir. Q. You went into the detention camp first? ' A. Yes, sir. Q. Your sick men into the detention hospital? A. I presume so. Q. Did you visit the hospital at all? A. No, sir. Q. What time did you land at Montauk? A. The boat arrived there the ;>lst of August, and the sick men went ashore the morning of September 1. Q. To what extent was your camp i^repared for you? A. The tents were simply pitched, and that was all. (^. Did the men have their packets and other field appliances for comfort with them when they came north? A. The most— some of them— had their l)]ankets: some of them didn't. An order was issued in Santiago that all tents should be left standing there. Many men had left their canteens behind. They were in bad condition, and many of the men had sore mouths. That, we imagined, was due to the fact that the canteens had become foul, and the men had been drinking out of their canteens. A large percentage of the men had sore mouths. What cau.sed it I don't know. Q. Did you make any effort to draw blankets and other field appliances for the men's personal comfort after you got to Montauk? A. I personally tried to get cooking utensils, but coiild not. Q. Blankets? A. We had some blankets. Every man had a blanket. Q. Were you at the quartermaster's depot? A. Yes, .sir. Q. You supplied them with clothing, blankets, and other appliances for the men? A. The blankets we received. The clothing thej- didn't have. They came there the day after the regiment left. It left the night of the 3d of September— sick men; held it until that time. That seemed to be the prevailing condition. The officers were not exempt from sickness and they went down as well as the men. I was knocked down twice in Santiago, and got my dose of malaria. Q. You medical officers held out coming north? A. We had a contract surgeon, so called, most of the way. Dr. Taylor did good work. LIEUT. JEREMIAH G. PENNESSEY. 2551 Q. The entire medical staff of your own regiment had been left behind? A. No, sir; at Camp Alger the staff was divided, under order from superior authority, and we went to Santiago^ Q. One of your surgeons was taken away for detention hospital work? A. He went to Porto Rico. The other two went with us. Afterwards, in San- tiago, an order was issued detailing one of the surgeons: he was sent to the hos- pital at Si honey. Then we had our surgeon with us to the end; also a contract surgeon who came later on. Q. Did you have any nurses or hospital corps men other than those of your com- mand coming north? A. Yes, sir: there were two hospital stewards of the Regular Army — I think two from the Regular Army. Both assistants. 1 know one was connected with the Regular Army. Q. Were they helpful? A They did great work. Q. Were your men sufficiently supplied with medical supplies coming north? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know why that was? A. I could not say. I know they had no stimulants. I paid a large sum out of my own pocket. We had no money down there. Q. You had not been paid? A. No, sir. Q. Just at that point, do you know why it was that the Pay Department, when there, didn't distribute the money, at the reqxiest of the army officers? A. I could not say. Q. Have you any other statement to make as to your experiences that would be heljiful to our commission in reaching a conclusion as to any lack of anything — any administration or maladministration at Montauk? A. The entire lack of transportation was the whole troul'^le. I was quarter- master of the regiment. I never had a team the whole time from the beginning to the end. A quartermaster without transportation is the fifth wheel to a coach. Q. Did yon have any transportation issued to your regiment at Camp Alger? A. We had five teams from there. Q, Only five? A. Yes, sir; and I may say, in connection, in Caini) Alger everything the Government had there I got. Q. The object was to give yoii, as you were going away, your full complement of everything, no matter what came to those who stayed? A. An order was issued to me to supply separate tents, written on the back of a reciuisitioii. Everything I could get quite i^romptly. The Quartermaster's De- partiuent responded to every attempt I made as far as the supplies went. Q. While you were in Santiago was there a sufficient amount of transportation for the troops? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know whether there were wagons and mules aboard of the transports which were not landed? A. I could not say; I am speaking of my own knowledge. Q. You don't know, then, as to whether or not a sufficient amount of transports had been sent with the expedition, or whether it was not landed? A. I think if it was sent, it was a crime it was not landed. Q. Because it could have been landed, in your judgment? A. It ought to have been. Q. What was the distance of your troops from the landing point at Siboney? A. At what period? Q. During the stay in Santiago, in trenches. 2552 INVICSTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Well, tlie distance down there was very peculiar. A sreat deal depended upon how many miles a place was. for instance, if an officer had no horse. I went up to General Shafter's headquarters, 9 miles, in the sun, at 120-', and was brought back. About the 13th of July they got the first team in the regiment. Q. Did you see the chief quartermaster at Shafter's headquarters? A. No: I saw him at Santiago. He referred me to the quartermaster who had charge of the transportation. Q. What reason did he give for not supplying you? A. He had to supply food and rations and money to troops, and could not supply transportation at that time for anything else. Q. Did he give any reason for it. or did he simply state the fact? A. He didn't have it. Q, He didn't say why? A. No, sir; no discussion about it. Q. Have you any other fact that you can state that would be helpful to us, or interesting, in this connection? A. I can not recollect anything. Q. You imderstand oiir position. We want you to tell us everything— nothing to be covered up. A. The only thing I can express is opinions, and I do not think I am competent to express opinions. Q. We are here, 1 suppose, to get facts if you have any other facts which will enable us to get an intelligent opinion. A. The only thing I can say, in my judgment, the great trouble was the lack of transportation to enable supplies to be sent to troops. General Orders, ] Headquarters of the Army, Adjutant-General's Office, No. ISl. ) Washington, November :J(1, 1S9S. I. The court of inquiry, of which Lieutenant-Colonel Tully McCrea, 5th U. S. Artillery, is president, instituted by direction of the Secretary of War at the rei|uest of 1st Lieutenant Jeremiah G. Fennessey, regimental supplies. : Q. Then about the general hospital? j A. I lived there with Dr. Prescott. I Q. In what condition did you find things existing there when you landed? j \ 1 GRAFTON J. CUSHING. 2581 ■ A. When you ask a general question of that sort it seems very difficult to answer. It is undoubtedly Q. If I knew what you found, of course we could ask you a definite and distinct question. A. I mean if you ask as to general conditions it is liard for one to tell. I can tell you of the various things. Q. Well, what was the condition of the <-amp. for instance; was it clean or dirty? A. Clean; admirably situated I thought, and in every way admirable, so far as the location of the camiJ went. Q. What was the condition of the men as to health? A. I thought they were a very sick lot of men in general. Q. As well those in the hospital as those in camp? A. Yes, sir. We had rather good opportunities of seeing the men in general. We had a big 4-horse wagon, which was the only one of its kind there, for dis- tributing our supplies, and a lot of men would climb in, men who wanted to go off on their furlough or men riding to and from the camp, and we saw a good manj' men visiting the camps. Q. What did you specially notice that wa:^ reprehcmsiblf' in the conduct of the camps? A. The thing that struck me as much as anything was the distribution of vv^hat they had there was poor. All the officers there were extremely kind to us. I saw the men at the head of the commissary and quartermaster's departments and the men in control of the transportation, and they treated us with the utmost courtesy. They were splendid men, and ideal men for the fulfillment of their duties. Colonel Weston told me that he had in his commissary department pretty nearly everything he needed, but he had no control over transportation, and the difficulty was to get the things about. If you want me to illustrate I will do so. Q. Yes, sir. A. We had one car of our own. Major Knight or his assistants gave us a Gov- ernment team or as many as we needed. They helped us as much as they conld. One clay I was getting three or four wagonloads of supplies which I intended to take to the Seventh Infantry, and there was a division which I heard was in need of some of the things we liad. It was difiBcult to find out any particular regiment there. I was wandering about to find the Seventh United States Infantry, and I stumbled into the end of an infantry camp where the brigade, consisting of the Third and Twentieth Infantry was camped. The colonel came down — I forget his name — he was a nice-looking grizzly old veteran, and I asked him if he knew where the Seventh Infantry was, and he was disappointed that the provisions were not for him and he turned his back on me and walked off, and I suspected he might be in want, and I asked for the doctor and the soldier pointed out the doc- tor. I went to him and asked where his liospital was, and I said, '• I might leave some of these things for you." The doctor gruffly replied he had no hospital, and then the colonel came back and very civilly tried to give me any information he could. I said, " If you need these things I will leave them all here." They had no wagons. They had left the detention hospital only a short time ago, a day or two. Nearly all their officers were sick. I think only six officers were left in the brig- ade. They were two or three miles from the center of distribution and they were getting only the army ration, which a sick man could not eat. so I left them all the bread, fruit, and vegetables I had. The next day I was rather disturbed about them. It seemed to me they really were in a poor condition, and I went around the next day and said to the colonel, "If you will give me one of your officers I will take him down with me and see what I can do in the way of introducing h;m to the commissary and quartermaster tliere. " Then I went to the Seventh Infantry and asked the colonel of the Seventh for an officer, and they both gave me an offi- 2582 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. cer, and I took them down to lunch at the hmch counter and spent the afternoon in introducing them to the quartermaster and transportation men. Colonel Wes- ton said, " The Twentieth are very much interested; they will give you anything." General Bates then arrived, and I told him what I knew about the condition of these two regiments, and tried to get him to take an interest in them, and he intro- duced the officer of the Seventh to Knight, who controlled the transportation, and I kept an eye on them and gave them what I could spare, and after a certain length of time they seemed to be getting everything they needed. I do not know enough about military affairs to know why it was, but it seems to me iucredil^ie that two regiments were landed there without being able to get their supplies. There were other regiments getting supplies and these two regiments were not. I thought in order to get what it wanted a regiment had to have hustling officers. I was told that there was a lack of transportation. The cavalry regiments had their own wagons and used to. get around and get their things and were better provided than the infantry. Q. Then how long had these regiments, the Third and Twentieth, been in camp? A. I don't know; I should imagine, in detention camp, about two days, perhaps. That is only a guess. Q. And so far as you know, no regimental /luartermaster had attempted to secure transportation for their commissary supplies from the station to their regimental camp? A. I know nothing about that. I know they had no horses or wagons of their own. Q. And you took two officers and took them and introduced them to the com missar J' at the depot? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long did you remain there? A. Two weeks and two days. I stayed until we came to the conclusion that it was unnecessary to distribute supplies any longer. Q. Did you visit the hospitals at any time? A. I was at the hospitals a great deal, but not in the wards. Q. What was their general condition outside as to cleanliness and appearances of being well administered? A. I think that the condition was, on the whole, pretty good. The detention hospital did not get into good condition until just before I left. Q. Was the detention hospital undergoing a constant change as the detention camp was— men coming and going, being removed— or when they got sick men in the detention hospital did they keep them there until they became convalescent? A. 1 do not know. Q. Rave you anything else that occurs to you as being worthy of mention that would be of use to us in our investigation? A. We established diet kitchens. Perhaps Dr. Prescott testified to that. We furnished all the servants, and 19 cooks and all the utensils and the stoves and coal, etc. Q. At the detention hospital? A. All the hospitals. We helped them at the detention hospital and at the division hospital. Bj' General Dodge : Q. Who Avas in charge of your hospital there? A. Mrs. Willard, of the Red Cross. She was a very capable woman. Q. Have you any other statement, Mr. Gushing, that would be useful to us? A. I don't know, sir. I have seen more or less: I have seen the question as to whether or not there was enough medical supplies. I know when I first went to the Tenth Cavalry, I thought Mas-^achusetts might t > keep an eye on the colored regiment. The surgeon gave me a full list of medical supplies he wanted. He COL. CHARLES PFAFF. 2583 took a Government printed list and checked off a very large number of sui^plies, which I took to Dr. Prescott, and he marked the most important ones and sent it to Mr. Burnett, and he shipped us the supplies. Q. Those supplies were furnished by your aid association? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether or not they could not be supplied from the medical depot? A. That I do not know. Our business — we simply did what good we could, and did not inquire further. We inquired to this extent: I asked Colonel Weston what he wanted, and after that we rather limited ourselves to delicacies — fruits, vege- tables, eggs, etc., which were in great demand by the officers, who asked for them for their regiments. By Dr. Conner: Q. Were you in any way familiar with the moving of the sick here in Boston from the Baij Sfate and the Olivette and the others? A. No, sir. Boston, Mass., November SO, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF COL. CHARLES PFAFF. Col. Charles Pfaff, upon request, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows : By General Wilson: Q. Colonel, will you kindly give us your name, rank, and address? A. Colonel Pfaff: colonel First Regiment Massachusetts Heavy Artillery. I reside in Boston. Q. When did you enter the service? A. Mustered in on the 9th of May. Q. Where did you first serve? A. Fort Warren; and later, Salem; and later. Framingham. Q. Were you called upon to act in anj^ other capacity than with the heavy artillery? A. No. sir. Q. How was your regiment fitted, in general, as to character and quantity of rations? A. I think perfectly satisfactorily. Q. Did you have any sickness in your regiment, any considerable amount of it? A. We had some few cases of typhoid, but nothing that was serious. We lost Oiie man, but that was after we v/ere fui'loughed. Q. It did not amount to an epidemic? A, Not at all, Q. What was the strength of your regiment? A. We had 751 men. (i^. And only a single death during the entire term of your service? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you any men whose illness continued after the period of their discharge, do you know? A. I think there were one or two men who were possibly on the sick list. Q. And are yet? A. That I would not want to say. Q. The net result, as far as yon know, amounted to simply one man died in your entire command? 2584 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. That is all. Q. What was the condition of the several forts which you were called upon to man, as far as the sanitary conditions were concerned? A. The sanitarj^ conditions were excellent, but they could scarcely be called forts. Q. Were they sand intrenchments? A. This one we had at Salem was called Fort Pickering. It is an old fort that dates back to 1035, I think— something like that— but there was absolutely no ord- nance there at all. Q. What was the significance of putting your command out there? A. That is something I have yet to discover. The residents of these different places were clamoring for protection. Q. The presenie of the Massachusetts h^avy artillery, without any ordnance, satisfied them? A. We had blue coats there, and that seemed to satisfy them. Q. During your term of service. Colonel, did you observe anything in thr cu:.- duct of the service there on the part of the Commissary or Medical or Ordnance Departments, or the Engineer's Department or the Signal Service, that would help us in reaching a conclusion as respects those various departments? A. I think our treatment was excellent in every department, excepting possi- bly, I might say, that we made requisition for some medical stores that took a long time to reach us. Q. Do you know upon what medical store or depot you made your requisition? A. I think we put it through the Department of the East. Q. Send it to New York? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you establish a hospital? A. We had a hospital at Salem. Q. Did you have any dilhculty in securing the supplies for it? A. Well, no; we relied greatly upon this Massachusetts Aid Association, and they supplied tis with everything. Q. As you perhaps know, we are in quest of knowledge, and if you have any- thing that would assist us— of course, we do not care about having the Govern- ment indorsed, incidentally, but if you know anything wrong, we would like to knov/ it. A. 1 would not like to say— Quartermaster Heizmann was there, and he did everything he could. By General Dodge: Q. Who was in command of Camp Winthrop, or was it Fort Winthrop? A. Winthrop Head. I think Captain Richmond is now. (?. Do you know anything about the troops there? A. No, sir; Richmond's battery was there, but was removed from there, ('ap tain Anderson, I think, was the other captain. Q. You have no statement of your own to make? A. No, sir. Boston, Mass., December 1, 1898. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. CHARLES L. HEIZMANN. Maj . Charles L. Heizmann was brought before the commission. Being asked if if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no," he was duly sworn by the recorder, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Be kind ent)Ugh to give us your name, your rank, and your present station. MA.T. CHARLES L. HEIZMANN. 2585 A. Charles L. Heizmann; major and surgeon of the United States Army; .sta- tioned at Fort Adams. Q. What position did you hold during the late war with Spain? A. I was surgeon at Fort Adams, mustering-in duty at . and from the 14th of August to the 13th of October I was in charge of the general hospital at Montauk, Camp Wikoff. Q. Be kind enough to tell us in what condition you found the hospital at Wikoff on the 14th of August, when you took charge of it, especially in reference to the condition— the extent df preparation made prior to your arrival for the reception of the sick? A. The hospital was incomplete. It appeared to be— every preparation had been made in the way of material — shall I go into details? Q. T ■ you please. You are one that can give us certain information that we want. • A. Tiie road from the depot to the hospital had not been finished so as to be availi'.IVe a.' ter heavy rains. All the wards contemplated had not been erected; but tb: re was plenty of material in the way of tents, but not enough material then- not for several days afterwards: there were several cessations in the work by th - c;i'-penters, due to the nonarrival of material. C>. Let me ask you right there. At the time you reported for duty, how many hospital tents were up? A. How many wards? (}. How many hospital tents? Did you arrange them in wards, five or six together? A. The intention was to arrange eight to the ward. Q. Be kind enough to tell me how many hospital tents there were. A. Six or seven wards: they contemplated sixteen. They were to be floored. Q. Did they floor the tents? A. The tents were floored. The flooring for the others was in process of erection. Q. Let me understand definitely. Eight tents you say in a row? Eight tents constituted a ward? A, I think so; yes, sir. Q. You had how many wards? A. Tlie main area occupied by the general hospital was IG. Afterwards they added to it and annexed. Q. On the 14th of August? A. When we made the hospital. Q. You had 10 wards ready for the reception of patients on the 14th of August? A. No, sir: not more than eight. Q. That would be 64 hospital tents? A. Yes, sir. I will not say— yes, sir; 64 at that time. Q. Was there a good abundance of hospital tents on the ground? A. There appeared to be. I never knew any delay excepting on account of the flooring, and the tents were always there. Q. On the 14tli of August? A. Yes, sir. Q. On the 21st of August, how many tents? A. Each hospital had been completed. Q. You had how many wards? A. That would be 16. Q. Sixteen by eight? A. I am talking of wards. Q. On the 14th there were 64 hospital tents; on the 31st there were double that number — 138? A. Yes, sir. 2586 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Oil the first day of September, how many hospital tents were there? A, There were 17 wards, and there were by the 1st of September, I think, twelve or fifteen, in the annex. Q. Twelve or fifteen in addition to those already constituted? A. Yes. sir. Q. There were 81 wards before? A, Yes, sir. Q. That would be 96? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then in round numbers there were 100 additional? A. Yes, sir. Q. Six hundred and twenty-four tents on the 1st of September? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many men were intended to occupy the tents? A. Only five comfortably, but often more than that. Q. There were 1,125 beds? A. At five; yes, sir. Q. On the 1st of September? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether or not at the time the 234 tents were up, there was further tentage at the hospital? A. Oh, yes; we had to utilize tentage put up for the mess rooms. Q. Leaving out of consideration all administration wards and tents, how many more tents on the 1st of September than 224 were there that might be occupied by the sick; not erected, but on the ground ready to be put up? A. How many tents? There were always plenty of tents, as far as my observa. tion went. Always appeared to be plenty of tents. Never any hitch in the matter of tents. Q. I understand from what you have said, there was delay in securing lumber necessary t ;r flooring? A. On two occasions the carpenters were not working on account of lumber. Q. How much delay was caused by the inability to get lumber? A. On those two occasions— not more than three or four hours. Q. Then the tents were ready? A. The carpenters could go to work again. Q. Do you know how many patients there were in the hospital at the time you took charge? A. No; I don't remember exactly; I think only 42. The ships had not com- menced to arrive. They arrived that day. Q. Were the sick in it at the time you took charge, the detachments from Tampa? A. Yes, sir. Q. There was ample room at the time you took charge for all the sick then on the island at the Point? A. Ample room. Q. When did the transports Isegin coming in? A. On the i:Uh. Q. Was that practically the first men from Cuba that reported thereon the 14th? A. Yes, sir. Q. At the time these men began to como in, was th(> hospital not only prepared so far as tentage and flooring were concerned, but also in respect to cots and bedding? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there a sufflciont amount of hospital utensils for all needed operations? A. For the number of patents. IStAJ. CHARLES L. HEIZMANN. 2587 Q. There has been a great complaint that bedpans were lacking for a consider- able length of time— no hot-water bottles— no hypodermic syringes— practically, no thermometers. Be kind enough to tell us how many of each of these articles there were. A. We were short of those articles. When I said that we were prepared, I understood fi'om Colonel Forwood that requisitions had been made to furnish all these things; but they could not be found. There were only a few syringes, bed- pans, water bottles, a few clinical thermometers. Miss Helen Gould furnished a number. Doctors furnished their own. I never could understand why there were a considerable number of medicines short. I never could understand why this delay. Q. Did you understand from Colonel Forwood that the re(iuisitions had been made? A. Yes, sir. I never could understand until a short time ago. I met Major Brown, my executive officer, during that period. He told me he was left behind, after I left, to clear up all property. He told me that all these things for which we had been anxiously looking were found under a lot of quartermaster's property. Q. At the time they broke up the camp? A. Yes, sir. I don't know how long they had been there. Q. Did you, at this time, when there was a marked shortage of all these neces- sary things, make a formal demand upon the Medical Department? A. Immediately, by telegraph. Colonel Forwood and I together wrote out a long telegram, and a few days after we sent another. Q. Did you get any answer to that? A. Not to any telegram; the things commenced to arrive from time to time. Q. Was the supply at any time prior to the 1st of September approximately ample? A. No, sir. Q. To whom was the telegram sent? A. To Colonel Brown, of New York. When I saw the shortage of certain things, medicines and utensils, the Red Cross Society furnished the camp and invited me to tell them our needs. Q. So far as you know, the articles that were telegraphed for were received, only slowly? A. As far as I know, they were received slowly. Q. You don't know to what extent; were the re(iuisitions ever fully answered? A. In the course of time, always. Q. Were the requisitions of avail and did you secure the articles retiuired at any time prior to breaking up? A. As far as I know; there were a great many things which 1 purchased. Q. As the transports came in was there a large or small demand upon you for hospital accommodations? A. The demand was very pressing and very large, fully up to the middle of . September. ,^^ Q. You were able to supply the demand? A. Always, at the general hospital. Q. In what way? A. By crowding. Q. If there was this large number of tents still remaining there unpitched, what was the difficulty in having those tents put up and relieving the crowding which you say existed? A. They were eventually put up. Q. Not in time to answer the necessities? A. There was no overcrowding: there was crowding. Q. Crowded up to eight? 2588 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Not in every tent; in some tents. Q. Was there at any time while yon were in charge of that hospital such con- dition of the hospital that yon could not receive the sick men that the hospital corps brought from regimental camps? A. Never during the day; at night the hospital might be crowded. Q. What was there to prevent you from having had in reserve 50 to 100 hos- pital tents erected":' A. They could have been used for hospital tents, yes, sir, if the patients arrived in the daytime; when patients arrived at 10 or 11 o'clock at night there was no one to put up flies Q. What was there to prevent your having on hand from 20—20, 50, 200, if necessary, hospital tents? A. That is something I don't know anything about: I had no chai-ge of the con- struction. Q. The trouble is simply this. Doctor; there were, as you say, an abundance of hospital tents on that ground and yet the men were refused admission to the gen- eral hoopital on the ground that there was no room for them. I am trying to find out— what we all are— why, with these tents on the ground, within two miles dis- tance at the outside, there should ever have been a man refused admission to the general hosjntal day or night, with this surplus of tents. A. That may have been due to a lack of bedding. Q. Was there any difficulty in getting beds and bedding? A. Yes; they were among these stores they found, these stores that were l)uried. Q. Somewhere between the supply depot in New York and your hospital the necessary articles — very much needed — were left? A. At the depot at Montauk. Q. Who was the quartermaster in charge of tiiat matter at Montauk? A. Two or three. Knight, Captain Patten (who had charge, immediate chnrge, of transportation, I don't know — the transportation of persons while Knight was there), and suliseqtiently Captain Parkman. Q. Do you know wiiether or not any attempt was made to secure hospital tents in sufficient (juantity to supply all demands of that j)laee by Forwood, in charge of the work ? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know whether or not he was aware of the fact that tentage and hospital supplies in abundance had been sent there and were still at the depot undelivered? A. I don't know. Q. Is it, or is it not, a fact that men were refused admittance to the general hospital — the night hospital corps — on the ground that there was no room for them? A. I don't know. Men were refused. It was reported by Major Thompson that men were brought up there slightly sick from camp, trying to get into the hos- pital on account of good treatment, and he had sent them back. I never heard of a seriously sick man being refused. Q. Do you know any instance in which six men were brought up to the hospital one afternoon and refused admittance on the ground that there was no room for them; they were taken back to the tents in the regimental camp, and one died before morning ? A. I never heard of anything of the kind. Q. Do you know anything about the case of a man brought by Dr. Tabor from the Seventh or Eighth Infantry who was refused admittance, and the man was taken back to the tent and died before morning ? A. T never hi ard of it. (^. As I understand you, by the 1st of September things began to get in better MAJ. CHARLES L. HEIZMANN. 2581) shape as respects supplies. You think that prior to the 20th of Sei^tember you were sufficiently supplie. HEIZMANN. 2595 A. Yes. sir; I never had any difficulty; there were hitches before we came. Q. Were you supplied by the Government Commissary Department or Hospital Department with proper food for those patients in sufficient quantity? A . Not at the beginning. The first rations— 60 cents— were all soldiers' rations. We had no means of j)urchasing extras. Q. You had no hospital food? A. In the latter part of AugiTst— we knew nothing at all about the 00-cent ration— General Wheeler informed me about— it must have been the 18th of — no, about the 25th of August. Q. The 25th? A. Yes, sir. Q. Not until the 25th? You received notification on the 25th there was such an order? Do you remember the date of the order? A. No, sir; I tliinlc the 16th. Q. The 10th. A. It was dated back. Q. The general order, 60 cents, was dated August 10. The public order bears date of August 10. You therefore were about two weeks finding out about that order. A. I arrived on the 14th. This was ten days after. Q. I didn't mean you personally. Those at Montauk. You were two Aveeks finding out from Washington that an order of the extremest importance, with reference to the feeding of the sick, had been issued. A. Yes, sir; and then General Wheeler told me to see the commissaries. The only way I could find the order was to go to the depot, two hours from the hos- pital. General Wheeler wanted to know how to get this money. Q. You didn't see the order? A. No, sir. Q. You immediately made requisition for the money? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was the money paid you at once? A. Yes; that is, the supply of reasonable wants of any sick man in the service; the order contemplated, taken with the ration, would have been sufficient. Q. Sufficient? Take a thousand-lied hospital, as yours was, or similar. Do you think it is possible for the patients in that hospital to use up 60 cents per day per man? A. I could not tell from individual experience, because I might purchase com- missary supplies which amount, have amounted, in fact, to about $1.20 per ration. A lot of canned stuff — I should think 60 cents would be sufficient; 60 cents per ration. Q. Think you 60 cent s— that ration — would not feed the ordinary hospital patiei it? A. It would not take in ginger ale; there was a great demand for that, and for fruit; oranges were very expensive. Q. You are familiar with supi^lying a hospital? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever hear of the patients in any hospital being given apollhiaris water as a common drink? A. Oh, no. Q. A good many things need not have been purchased? A. That is the idea. Q. Did you or did you not have an abimdance of ice there at the time you arrived ? A. It was difficult, but we managed to get it, Q. The effort was directed in what directions? A. In getting it out of this fund from New York. 2596 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Before that? A. The ice house at Montauk Point was in possession of a very curious character who seemed to be anxious to make money. I personally appealed to him, but he would not open his ice house. Q. Was it or was it not possible to have purchased ice in New York. New Haven, New London, Newport, Boston, and gotten the ice there in time so it could have been issued? A. We always bad plenty. I telegraphed for ice immediately. I made arrange- ments with an ice company. Q. After what date were you abundantly supplied with ice? A. We absolutely suffered from the want of ice only one day. Q. How much of ice was furnished you by the Red Cross or other aid societies, and how much purchased by hospitals? A. I don't remember that the Red Cross furnished any. Q. As respects milk, were you, in the beginning of your service, able to secure milk as it was needed? A. Not at the beginning. We probably had enough milk on August 14, but as they came 300 or 400 a day unforeseen we were taken unawares. Q. Would the matter of anticipating come under your supervision, or For- wood's? A. Under mine. Q. Would there have been any difficulty, think you, in so providing before- hand as that nothing should be wanting at that hospital or in that camp? A. We never had any trouble after we got things started. The little towns west of us were not able to supply milk. We tried that; but we got the milk from New York. Q. So that milk was supplied to you in sufficient quantity and of good ([uality? A. Y"es, sir; we had sufficient. We had several thunderstorms, and it had to be watched very carefully. Q. How often did you find sour milk? A. We found it quite a number of times. Q. Could that difficulty have been overcome had you received milk from the North shore, or Long Island center? A. I think not. Q. The conditions were such— atmospheric— you think they would have spoiled any milk? A. Yes, sir. Q. You had all the milk you wanted? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long after you took charge of the hospital did you establish the diet kitchen? A. The special diet kitchen? Probably it was some time— ten days or two weeks. Q. Was there any reason why there was delay in the establishment of that diet kitchen? A. I know there were representatives of the societies to establish the kitchen and ready to go to work, but I suppose it was due to the fact that they could not erect tents. Q. Were there not plenty of tents on hand? A. I suppose there were. That is all supposition. I know there was a delay in establishing the diet kitchen. Q. Is it a fact, Doctor, that at that time, certainly before, all the cooking was done with very limited facilites? , A. Yes, sir; very, indeed. And anything special— special diet— would have to be cooked in the ward by the nursc^s. Q. And these hospital corps men you have spoken of prepared the diet? MAJ. CHARLES L. HEIZMANN. 2597 A. We had cooks. Q. How uiauyV A. At one time, two; I think, the first week. Q. And two cooks provided not only the food npcessary. but the special food for the seriously sick? A. No, sir; in fact, I don't think there was any specially cooked food prepared in the general hospital until the diet kitchen was established. Q. So no ample provision for a kitchen had been made when the hospital was established? A kitchen with two cooks can not run a hospital with 1.000 beds. A. No, sir. Q. Yon don't know the reason? A. No, sir. Q. As a result of this, were the meals furnished to those sick, but not danger- ously ill, seriously delayed in getting to them and served irregularly? A. No doubt about that. Inefficient attendance. Q. Do you know whether any particular nursing was done at night? Did the nurses show their deficiency at night when the medical officers were not about? A. At all times. Q. During the first three weeks, before the female nurses came there? A. Very defective. Q. As respects your hospital furniture, so to speak; did you have an ample supply of beds, of cots, mattresses, in the first three weeks of your time there? A. No, sir; men were lying on the floor as late as early in September. Q. Any difficulty in getting cots and beds in the United States at that time? A. We telegraphed for them. We knew those were on the way that were found subsequently. Q. In other words, they didn't come? A. We expected them every day. The Red Cross supplied them from time to time. The demand was larger than the supply. q. It seems from the testimony that we have been getting that the Red Cross had little difficulty in getting what was needed, and to the Medical Department the difficulty was almost insuperable. As respects your supply of sheets, pillow- cases, was there any there when you took charge? A. Yes, sir; enough for that number of patients. Q. A week later did you have an ample supply? A. No washing could be done. The soiled linen was thrown out. The laundry commenced fully eighteen days after I arrived. Q. Was no provision made at the time of your arrival for washing there at all? A. No, sir. Q: Some trouble in erecting the laundry? A. I don't know. All these blankets, perhaps, would have been sufficient, but they were burned up. Q. Do you know whether or not this soiled linen, bedding, clothes, anything of that sort, were kept under the floor of the tent? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the object in putting them under the tent? A. Because from time to time it was hoped the laundry would start. Q. Was this advantageous to patients sleeping right over them? A. I thought it was awful that they should remain there. I protested, but no notice was taken of it. Q. To whom did you protest? A. To Forwood. Q. No notice taken by him? A. No, sir; I offered to sign a certificate. I urged him to destroy it— to have it destroyed instantly. 2598 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Did he follow out your ,sugi;,estioii? A. No, sir. Q. Did this soiled stuff accumulate under the tents to the serious detriment of the sick? A. No, sir; there was plentj' of ventilation. Q. How long did that condition last? A. Fully ten or twelve days l)efore it was thrown away, and then it was burned tip. The laundry had not commenced to run. It was tUl taken to the laundry and accumulated there, and got to be such a nuisance to tl!e camp that after much ado General Yonng destroyed it. Q. No effort made to send this soiled linen away to be cleansed? A. I don't know. Q. Do you think your men suffered, not in an testhetic sense, but actually suf- fered, because they had no clean sheets? A. No, sir. i^. Any man allowed, as far as you know, to lie on bedding which had been soiled by typhoid and other excrements? A. No, sir. Q. It didnt occur? A. No, sir: I don't know it didn't occur. Q. Would you have known it if it had occurred? Did your duties prevent your making proper inspection of wards? A. It was impossible for me to do so. Q. Was there any difiiculty in having an inspector appointed whose sole duly it would be to see after matters of that sort? A. No, sir. Q. That carries us back to the same old point again. As respects the receiving of typhoid excreta, leaving it open, throwing it out. in the first place, around about the ho.spital; did that occur? A. Yes, sir; I had to watch that. I went around myself and cautioned the guards; I stationed special guards to prevent it. Q. They didn't prevent it? A. No, sir: I never saw anything like it. Q. Was it or was it not a matter of very decrided importance to the welfare of the sick and the welfare of those who supposed they were well to have this typhoid excreta i:>roperly cared for? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have a supply of disinfectants? A, Yes, str; always plenty of those. Q. What disinfectants in abundance? A. Plenty of (quicklime and chloiide of lime. I bought a lot of that: sulphate of iron. All that sort of thing. Q. You Issued an order as to the proper care of chamber vessels, bedpans, <>1c.? A. Yes,^sir. Q. These orders were obeyed? A. I think they were. Q. The case I spoke of some time ago to you — two cases taken back to the hos- pital tent and died there before morning — the case of Hugh Parrott, Eighth Infantry, under the care of Dr. Tabor. Q. Perhaps his name may remind you now. Do you remember anything about it? A. No, sir. Q. You had so many things to look after. Was the hospital at that time fur- nished witli receptacles, galvanized iron or other barrels, to be carted awaj'? MAJ. CHARLES L, HEIZMANN. 2599 A. I think the first receptacles were wooden, and afterwards we telegraphed for iron and they were used. Q. Do you know whether, in addition to them, you had received vessels of galvanized iron into which these bedpans were emptied? A. No, sir. Q. We will take up the question the Governor suggested. You had an abun- dance of visitors there? A. An overabundance. Q. Any measures adopted to keep this crowd out? I asked you about it earlier in the examination; you said you had one guard of three men. A. The crowd came after that. It w-ould have taken a corps of troops to run that hospital alone. Q. Would it or would it not have been practicable to have established a guard at the station to prevent individuals going to the hospital? A. I think that was done when I first arrived there, and then there were guards stationed to keep the people away from the detention camp. Q. Was the quarantine strictly maintained in the detention camp? A. I think so. Q. Do you or do you not know whether these visitors brought articles of food to patients— given to patients without the consent or knowledge of the doctors? A. I don't know: it was said so. Q. Was any official report made to you by the chief of nurses— that was, report coming from the nurses? A. I don't remember. Q. How soon did you begin to be distressed l)y applications for furlough? A. As soon as the furlough was ordered. Q. About what time; when was the order issued permitting men to be fur- loughed? A. Perhaps about the 24th or 25th of August. Q. Somewhere along the latter week of August? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there or was there not a strong pressure brought to bear upon you, as officer in charge of the hospital, to grant furloughs to men not fit to travel? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have direct charge of that? A. I had to have direct charge; my signature was necessary. Q. Did you or did you not find great difficulty in keeping tnen in the hospital who ought to stay there? A. Yes. sir; the greatest difficulty. Q. It has been said that men were sent away from the general hospital at Mi^tn- tauk absolutely unfit for travel— some of them, tludr unfitness was proven by their falling ill and dying. Do you know whether or not the granting of such furloughs was because you wanted to empty your wards, or wanted to yield to the importunity of patients or friends? A. Not as far as I was concerned. The system I established was two checks for each man. The doctor had to sign a paper recommending the man for a furlough. That was submitted t;) me by the man himself. T made an examination, or perhaps warned him in reference to diet, etc. That was until Colonel Greenleaf came there, and then recommended a l)oard of officers. Q. That was about the 15th of September? A. Before that, because Greenleaf arrived on the 8th of September. Q. Forwood left there on the 11th? A. Greenleaf was in charge several days before Forwood left— three or four days. 2G00 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Did you yourself see men leaving the hospital unfit to ti'avel? A. No, sir. I have sent some of them back for certificates. Q. You never spoke to the men in-transit? A. Not after a man started for the station; no, sir. Q. As soon as you signed that furlough ho was independent: he could not be , ent back by any medical officer? A. I was confined to that tent all day. Q. As we have been told, when he got rations and transportation tickets, the individual had to walk in the neighborhood of a mile or a mile and a (quarter to the station? A. Yes, sir; there were not sufficient ambulances. I applied to the Red Cross to get wagons to take them down. The Government proved itself unable to do what the Red Cross was enaljled to do — to transport men from the hospital to the station. Q. Any of the men having been returned from the station supposed to be able to travel? A. They were. Q. Did you yourself see the condition of things at the station at any time? A. No, sir; I never did. I never was out of the li*»spital but four hoiirs the two months I was there, unless down to the station a few minutes. i^. The question has been asked if — I would like your reply to it — would there have been the slightest difficult}' in appointing an officer — (|aartermaster, acting quartermaster, or commissary officer — who could have done all this furlough work at the hospital and saved these men? A. The quartermaster became sick. A j'oung man was appointed quartermaster v/ho had just arrived from Cuba. He was taken sick and left in twenty-four hours; a second man the same way. Then we sent a man there who had just joined the service, but I could not instruct the man, and I took the thing in hand myself. Q. Were there no officers in all that camp, of all these regular regiments, who could have been there — properly detailed for duty of that sort at the hospital, for the benefit of being at the hospital? ' As it seems to me — I am free to say — there was not the slightest difficulty in the world in having a lay officer at the hospital instead of having them at the station. It would have saved the men a vast deal of trouble. • A. Yes, sir. Q. Would not the hospital have furnished a tent or tents for this quartermaster and commissary at the station, who was occupied with furlough business, and, as we understand it, five clerks or more? Why was it not possible? A. I could have given him a place. Q. Would it not have very much facilitated matters? A. Yes, sir; very much. Q. Is there any reason at all — you, as an old officer of the Army, know apparently the condition of things — any reason in the world why a very large proportion of the work that you had to do in charge of the hospital might not have been done by a lieutenant? You had to spend your time signing furloughs; could it not have been done by a subofflcer or lay officer? A. Yes, sir. Q. You had to deal with a multitude of papers. Could not that have been done by somebody else? A. Yes, sir. Q. If the pajjer work had been taken away from the Army in a large measure, nd only that left for which a professional opinion was needed, would it not have allowed you and every other officer to have taken better care of your hospital? A. Yes, sir. MAJ. CHARLES L. HEIZMANN. 2601 Q. Why was not something of that sort done? A. We would have to have somebody familiar with the work. Q. Which is of the most importance to an army, the filling out of a lot of papers or caring for the sick? A. There must be some papers — the name of the sick, the conditions, etc. Q. Was there not a system in the hospital of bed cards? A. Yes, sir. Q. A doctor in charge of the ward? A. Yes, sir. The bed cards — each doctor had a book to record all that. Q. Would it not have been perfectly easy to have taken those bed cards and kept a card catalogue instead of entering them in the record book? A. The books consisted of scraps of paper. Q. Were you or were you not at times in receipt of orders from Dr. For wood that were very quickly countermanded by you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it or was it not unpleasant to you in the discharge of your duties that orders were so given that were countermanded almost as soon as issued? A, Yes, sir. Q. Did you or did you not know of instances at your own hospital of For- wood's issuing an order and before the man receiving it could get out of the tent he was called back and the order turned down and a change made? A. I don't remember the incident. Q. We have had testimonj' somewhat to that effect. Was there or was there not a disposition to issue and countermand orders there? A. No, sir. The orders I referred to were getting ready for a number of sick, or to take so many to the depot to ship. Those were the only orders that conflicted a great deal with the running of the hospital. That, I suppose, was due to* the fact of the conditions at the depot. Q. Then, as respects matters of detail, which, as I understand it, Forwood's attention was directed to not a little, were there or were there not conflicting orders issued fretiuently, so far as you know? A. No, sir. Q. The last question I want to ask you is, why, so far as you know, that hospital, amply supplied with empty beds in abundance, with medical supplies in abun- dance, hospital stores in abundance; in a word, why was the hospital always living from hand to mouth until the very last of it? What was the reason? Was it in the conditions there existing, in the place, in the system? Was it in the indi- vidual? A. I think one reason, as I say. is. the first supplies were buried under the quartermaster's stores; it was partly due to the railroad accommodations: the cars got all mixed up there. One car arrived there with stores for hospital, commis- sary stores — produce — which was shipped from New York over two weeks before I received notification; it had been at the depot two weeks and lost among the cars there. The day before I left I received a note stating that such a ear had been there. Q. Express freight or ordinary? A. Rail freight: there was an instance of a car which had been around the depot two weeks. Q. If I ever knew, I don't know now about the quartermaster's department. Freight arriving at that station, ought it to come direct to you or direct to the local qiiartermaster? A. The quartermaster had nothing to do with it; it should come direct to me. Q. Whose business was it to notify you of the arrival? A. Freight agent. 2G02 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN, Q. Was the freight agent a railroad employee or Government officer? A. A railroad employee. Q. Therefore, the railroad not having notified you, you were unaware of the condition of things. This was a single instance? A. That was one instance. Q. No explanation given you? A. None at all; he was much mortified. The agent took the thing up person- ally. Q. Did the railroad company, as a rule, promptly notify you of the receipt of hospital stores? A. Yes, sir; I had an officer every day there, but an officer is a very unfortunate man looking after stores. Q. Then, with the exception of this one case you speak of, you have no good reason for complaining of the delay of the railroad company? A. No, sir. Q. Then as respects the quartermaster "s transportation of these stores? A. The quartermaster brought them up: we had trouble occasionally. There was a good deal of stealing. There were no wagons in connection with a great many trains. There were five or six wagons; those were open. It was very annoying, but the officer whom I had stationed there, a member of the Hospital Corps, was very active in that way. If they went in the morning, we managed to get a delivery by noon; the hospital got it by dark. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us, as the result of your observation, what changes, in your judgment, should be made in the administration of medical affairs, to avoid the delays, the mistakes, the errors of the last wa ? A. That question requires a great deal of thought. I think that the matter of transportation should be in the hands of the officers who are responsible, especially responsible, for sick people; in other words, I believe the medical force sliould have its own quartermaster's department. I think, also, there should be as officers of the Medical Department a number of officers sanitary engineers. Now, for instance, after the engineers took hold there, there was a vast change in the erec- tion of tents, flooring, buildings, everything. We had a young man, an officer of the Engineer Corps, sanitary engineer; it was his special study. It was marvelous the amount of work he could get out of his employees, out of his own soldiers and volunteers, and out of ordinary laborers. I think tlie Medical Corps should have an engineer corps and a quartermaster's corps of its own. Q. As respects the Hospital Corps, what about the change in that? A. I have nothing to say. I think it woiild have been better to have had a vol- unteer corps. Q. The Hospital Corps has not been efficient during the war? A. When they have nothing to do, they do well. The men who had been in the Hospital Corps for some time were very efficient. Q. Do you think it possible to teach men, at ordinary posts, in times of peace, the nursing part of it? Your hospital facilities— are they such as to permit of men being trained as nurses? A. Yes, sir; you can teach them sanitation. Q. Is it not the fact that thr^ chief attention has been directed to training them for service in the field in the time of action, to make them first-aid men and not nurses? A. Yes, sir. DE. DANIEL FTSKE JONES. 2603 Boston, Mass., December 1, IS'JS. TESTIMONY OF DR. DANIEL FISKE JONES. Dr. Daniel Fiske Jones was brought before the commission. Being asked if he had any objection to being sworn, and answering "no." he was duly sworn and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Be kind enough to give us your full name, residence, your profession, and time you have been practicing. A. Daniel Fiske Jones; 261 Beacon street, Boston. I graduated from the Har- vard Medical School in 1896, from the Massachusetts General Hospital on April 1, 1897, and am now in practice. Q. Be kind enough to tell us whether or not yoii had an opportunity to see any- thing whatever of the sick or wounded during the- late war with Spain. A. 1 did, sir: the first part of August. Q. Be kind enough to tell us, in your own way, what you saw and where you saw it. A. I was asked to go South with the Hon. Sherman Hoar by the Volunteer Aid Association. We left here August 4; went to New York August 5. We visited the main hospital on Staten Island, where everything was in very good shape. The same day we went to Fort Wadsworth, on Staten Island, where Major Hall was in charge; and ho was very badly mixed up: he was in a terrible state— very much overworked. The assistants that I saw were all overworked; had been u}} all night. He s.iid \w didn't know what he could do — no nurses, no doctors. His hospital was full and the tents were full. We didn't see the sick there. From New York we took the train and got to Fort Monroe on Ihc^ morning of August 6. The day before that the Olxlam had come in with 4f) to 48 sick aboard, one surgeon; I don't know how many hospital corps men. These were being unloaded onto the v^^harf. The men were terrible sights. They were most of them — I have forgotten the doctor's name in charge; he said they were most of them— typhoid; men were almost naked; their lips, teeth, and gums were covered — their lips were in a terri- ble condition. It was the most pitiable sight 1 have ever seen among the sick. They were lying in their own urine. Q. In the hospital or on the boatV A. (3n deck. Q. Just being receivedV A. Yes, sir. They were unloaded from the ship onto a smaller boat, from the smaller boat onto the wharf, then to a flat car, then taken up as near the hospital as they could get, and taken from there on stretchers to the hospital. Among these typhoids I think three had hemorrhages there that day. It was pitiable to see them lying there that way without proper attention all this tinie- from the time they began to unload — three or four hours. They cried out as they were being carried along and while they were being changed from one place to the other. All held onto their abdomens and complained of pain. In fact, as I was told, there were two cases well along where you w^ould expect hemorrhages. They were taken care of by the hospital. The next day one man died. That same afternoon the Lampasas came in with 116 sick and wounded. Most of them were just simply sick. They were in better condition, a great deal. For. tunately there were some twenty-two Red Cross nurses sent back on the Lam- pasas, not to take care of patients, but as passengers on board of this ship. These nurses were all very tired, very much used up by their work, and what they would have done if they had not turned in and done the work themselves, though not asked to, I do not see. The men when they got there were in very poor 2604 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. shape. These uurses said they were sent back — ordered back home— because they were not wanted. Most of the men had typhoid, in the third week. It was said positively that the nurses were not sent back to look after the sick. They were simply passengers on this Lamjxtsax, and there were 116 sick, and three doctors — Dr. Parke was one. They were all positively used up when they got there', as well as the nurses. Q. As respects the statement made in regard to the nurses, was it made to you? A. I talked with the nurses. Q. They told you so? They were discharged because there was no further use for them? A. They didn't say so; they said they were sent home. Q. Were those men from Santiago? A. From Porto Rico. Q. Let me ask yoii, in this connection, whether you had occasion to visit the Obdam yourself? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know as to her preparation for the transportation of the sick? A. I went aboard the Lampasas just a minute, to find out what they needed in the way of medicines, etc. When the Lampasas reached Fort Monroe, Major De Witt toldme himself he had not expected the ship to land there; he had no knowledge of it whatever. The doctors particularly had no knowledge of where they were to go. They waited there for some time and finally, after several telegrams had been sent saying it was positively necessary they must be landed, they were landed at Fort Monroe. When they got there, they were out of milk, tea, ice, alcohol, brandy: they had nothing in the way of a mouth wash for these patients. All they had was a little granum, or some such food. Q. On the Lampasas? A. Yes, sir. C^. In regard to the Ohdavi, do you know whether or not there was a medical officer on board? A. There was one on board. Q. Do j'ou know his name? A. I can not possibly tell you now. I have been trying to think of his name. Q. On the 6th of August? A. She arrived on the .Ith: I was told she did. She unloaded on the morning of the 6th. The Lampasas came in on the afternoon of the 6th and unloaded on the morning of the 7th. Q. Did you have occasion to see these men in the hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. In what condition were they? A. Many had bedsores. Q. In regard to the care taken of them there? A. I would like to say here that Fort Monroe hospital is a most excellent one in every respect. The tents were clean, comfortable, and looked after in excellent manner in every way. Q. Do you know from what town or towns in Porto Rico these men came? A. Most of them came, I think, from Ponce: that was the first landing. Many of the Sixth Massachusetts came on the Yale: the first lot landed there. Q. Do I understand yoii correctly— they came over on the Yale, and were as quickly as possible returned to Camp Alger on account of being sick? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether they were sick when they left Camp Alger or supposed to be — those returned in this short time you speak of? DR. DANIEL FISKE JONES. 2605 A. No, sir; some of them were not feeling well. They were mit very sick. They were put to bed on the Yale. Q. Were they side when they arrived at Camp Alger? A. Yes, sir. Q. Go on, please, and tell us what you wish. Have you said all you want to about Fort Monroe? A. The statements of these men about their treatment aboard the Yale; the food they got was something terrible, and the way they were cooped up there. Q. Do you know whether or not the Yale was a transport? A. She was a cruiser. Q. A Government cruiser? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know why she was put upon this special service —transporting troops? " A. I don't know, unless simply because she was so fast. I would like to say there was a long article in the paper at one time, bringing out the fact that Fort Monroe hospital was not i^roperly run — didn't have proper provisions, etc. While I was there the men were all exceedingly happy and contented, The only time— the man wrote this letter at a time when the Lampasas came in; there could not be any milk found around the country, on account of a hail and thunder storm; it was impossible to get it. I took a triij around on purpose and could not find any anywhere. The hospital major, De Witt, kept them in most excellent order. From there we went to Cincinnati and rode out to Fort Thomas. The hospital there had just changed hands. The major in charge was not Major Hall, the man who had been in charge. I could not say anything about him. Things were not in proper shape then. There is very little to say there. Since then we went to Chickamauga. In the morning we went out to Camp Thomas. We got there and went to the camjj of one of the regiments whose sick list was suiiposed to be one of the smallest there and whose officers prided themselves on the care of the men; yet, within 50 yards — not more than 50 yards out of the colonel's tents — was a sink entirely uncovered, so far as any boai-d or lumber you could see— — Q. What regiment? A. Eighth Ohio. We went around there a little. There was some lumber scattered around. The officers, many of them, had not seen any such thing as that, showing that they had not thought of any such thing before. Here, in talking with Major Coggswell, we found that he had foiTud it impossible to get anything from the quartermaster's department. He had sent in requisitions for the simplest things — the most necessary things, in every way; but the requisitions had not been honored and no attention had been paid to them at all. We went to the detention hospital of this division that the Eighth was in. Major Clark was in charge, and Griffin was commissary of the hospital. Clark told me it was made to hold at least, or almost. 225; there had been 275 or 280 patients. The hospital was much crowded in every way for nothing but a tent hospital. He had made every effort — reciuisitions — he had even been to the quartermaster to see if he could get boards to make floors; all he had been able to get was enough to make an aisle between the cots. There was a single aisle and one board between each cot. The cots were exceedingly near together, so you could just squeeze in by going sideways. We asked Major (,^lark if they needed any loose netting; the patients wei-e covered with flies. He said they had a supply, but could not use it, the patients were so near together. We asked them if they could not get hospital tents enough where they had so much crowding. He said it was absolutely impossible; he had tried in every way. He had talked with the 2 006 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. (luai-termaster, who had luade a remark which he didn't care to repeat to lue; he had told him when the war was over ho lioped he would he hung and would be \evy glad to help him do it. Ice he could only get from the Red Cross; he had tried to get it in many ways from the Government, but could not get it. Requi- sitions of the most ordinary things lie could not get in any way. His nurses were a decidedly sick-looking lot. The men looked sick, the doctors all looked sick. He said his nurses w^ere all worked overtime, and the hospital was so crowded even then that they could not take proper care of the patients, and the patients showed they had not proper care. They were mostly typhoid— a large proportion typhoid. Their lips were cracked, and they wore covered with sores. He and Major Griffin were most emphatic in their statements that it was absohitely impos- sible to do anything in the ciuartermaster's department— to get anything from them. Major Grif&n was commissary of the hospital. Major Coggswell said it was not only impossible to get things from the quartermaster s department, but he could not get his regimental officers to help him out in any way. The same statement was made by Major Clark, officer in charge— that they would not help him in any way to get these things. Pie said things were then better than they had been. In fact, that was the remark he made all along, wherever he went. It seemed to be a transitional period. Everything was getting better. When they sent direct to Washington they got the things needed, but otherwise it was impossible to get anything out of the quartermaster. There was an en lire lack of unison between the medical staff and the (luartermaster. The medical staff seemed to be depend- ent upon the quartermaster's department, yet absolutely heli)less so far as getting anything was concerned. At the latter hospital we didn't see many patients. Major Coggswell said things were going on very well. The site of his hospital was anything but agreeable, a^ before, a short distance from a small lake or swamp, and in such a direction from the hospital that the prevailing winds blew across this small marsh or pond: his nurses were beginning to get malaria, of a very malignant form. Q. Did you have occasion to see that pond'.' A. No, sir. We were there a very short time. The vegetation in it are those forms that occur in water of that kind. We simply talked with Major Cart- wright. He had nothing to complain of apparentl> , except that. From Chicka- mauga we took a train again for the North, to Washington. Aboard the train v^ere two officers— I won't attempt to give their rank; I dont remember— of the Twelfth New York, I believe. One of them was so sick he could not sit up; in fact, he was helpless most of the time. One had a temperature of 104° to 105° most of the way up. The other one I didn't know about. I know they went to the water-closet used by all the passengers, and vomited very frequently, vomit- ing and stooling. They were decidedly very sick men. If I may, I would like to tell of a young man sent up from there. They gave him an upper berth. He was so sick he could not get aboard the car alone. Mr. Hoar helped him. When he found he had an upper berth, Mr. Hoar gave him his berth. When they had to change cars, he was so sick that Hoar and another gentleman had to carry him onto the car. They put him on a truck there, and carried him aboard the train for Washington. He fainted several times along the trip, and he said he was the most desperately ill man he had ever seen: in fact, he heard he died a very short time after reaching New York. We reached Washington, and Hoar saw Alger and General Sternberg. I must say that they offered every means of relieving the men; they offered anything that Mr. Hoar asked them. Mr. Hoar asked for hospi- tals at Porto Rico and at Santiago, so that typhoid patients would not have to be handled so much, and an order was immediately sent for those hospitals to be established. We went from there to Fort Monroe. COL. CHARLES BIRIX 2607 Washington, D. C, Decemher 2, 1S0n were going over one night tourist sleepers were better, biit where one night the other was better and cheaper. Q. Were Pullman cars— the ordinary Pullman cars— used under any circum- stances? A. Every man that g( )t a sick furlough was put on the tourist sleeper. Q. Were they ever used for the transport;ition of troops that you know of? A. I understand in the South the Pullman Car Company did not have the regu- lar tourist sleepers, and therefore they put in some of their old Pullman cars. I don't know to what extent they were used. Q. Did you receive complaints from any officers of any kind in regard to the method of transportation of troo]is? A. Not the method. Sometimf s we heard the equipments were not such as should have been used. We told them i f they sent such e(juipment that we could not give them our business. Q. What treatment did you receive on the part of the comimnies? A. Very good. Q. Were they prompt to respond, after the contracts were made, to do what you called upon them to do? A. Yes, sir; the movements, when they came, there was a rush, and some of those roads in the South did not have the equipment. They could not get it together all at once and sometimes there was some delay. A colonel would be anxious to get his regiment off, and it was because these people had to borrow equipment from one road for another that caused the delay. We have had more trouble in the Southern Association than anywhere else. Q. Why the Southern Association? A. I mean the coimtry is divisioned into associations. The railroads put all the roads south of the Potomac, say, in one association; that is called the Southern Association; and they started out at (he beginning of the war with a 2-cent rate and bid rates, going down to the lowest basis, a little less than 50 per cent above the rates— a great many roads in the South are land-grant roads— and they adhered to that, and that is what wc were trying to break up. We did break it up at Camp Alger here. We compared all the rates in my ofFu-e and we got a rate from Camp Alger to Tampa at li cents per mile, and when we went to move from Tampa to Montauk Point I said, " Gentlemen, we will adopt your rate South coming North." " Oh, no, you can not do that." I said, •' We will adopt the rate. That is the rate you have agreed to move troops back and forth," and they accjui- esced, and we brought all the troops up on that rate, and the freight and animals at a lower rate. Q. Can you recall what that rate was? A. One and one-half cents, and, I think, less than $150 a car from Tampa to New York City. Q. For freight? A. Animals. Q. How many animals can you put in a car? A. Mules, 20; and cavalry horses, 18. Q. Y/ill you explain to the commission, if you please, the entire arrangements made for the transportation of troops, animals, and freight to Tampa, and to Port Tampa from Tampa? A. Well, that is a mere local matter. General. Q. Would not come under you? COL. CHARLE8 BIRD. 2611 A. Yes, sii"; in a way. Q. What I am after is this: There has been great complaint made to the com- mission of stagnation there at Tampa, resulting from the congestion of cars and the great trouble in getting things from Tampa to Port Tampa. We understand there were two railroads at that time handling the cars, by what is known as the Florida Central and Peninsular and the Plant System. Will you explain to the commission (he steps taken by the Quartermaster's Department in getting the troops and animals from Tampa to Port Tampa previous to starting for CuV)a? A. The Plant System owned the line from Tampa to Port Tampa. It was their line. The Florida Central, which is the road you speak of, had their terminal in Tampa. We had very poor facilities for transferring the food and troops that passed over their line to tlie direct lino leading to Port Tampa. The Plant people wanted to cut them out and put a heavy arbitrary on; that is, if their cars were transferred— it was a railroad dodge— they wanted to shut out onr shipping- stores at all over the Florida Central and confine us to the Plant System, and they put this heavy arbitrary on so they could not handle cars, and in order to over- come that we insisted upon storehouses being built at certaui points, and tracks- putting switches in, so we could handle freight and cars over those roads. Q. By whom were they built. Did the United States build them ? A. Yes, sir; the Quartermaster-General— and Colonel Martin had charge of putting in those tracks. I did not have anything to do with it. Q. Did the United States do that? A. I am not sure. I do not know whether they made the railroads do that. The Plant System then held up a high tariff on all freights that passed over the 9 miles of road from Tampa to Port Tampa, and instructions were given, and are still enforced, that not one dollar of pay shall be given to the Plant System for hauling over the 9 miles of road until a proper rate has been fixed. It never has been done, i told tliem that I would never recommend that a cent be paid to them rmd that their accounts would be sent to us and we would put them into the Auditor "s office and they could look to them. Q. I understand that no payment has been made to the Plant System for the transportation from Tampa to Port Tampa ? A. Yes, sir. Q. They simply hauled them by your orders, assuming that they were to charge what they deemed best, and these charges have been refused by you and no pjiy- ment has been made ? A. Not to my knowledge. Colonel Moore was sent down there to adjust mat- ters. They had rates for storehouses and dockage and everything of that kind, and Colonel Moore was sent to arrange for those rates. He made all those rates, and I do not know whether he went into the railroad rate or not. Q. What is your opinion of the cause of the great congestion at Tampa? A. Sending more stuff down there than they could handle. We were directed to push stuff ahead and we had to send it out sometimes and we could not often send a bill of lading. Q. In sending it out, you say you could not send a bill of lading. Were the cars marked in any way so the local (luartermaster might know where to find each class of material ? A. Yes, sir; we did more than that. We ordered the (juartermaster at Jeffer- sonville, where these supplies were to go from, to send a man on each train to report what cars he had and what were in those cars; and they were ordered to label on the outside with a conspicuous mark, stating whether they contained ordnance supplies, harness, wagons, or whatever it was. Q. Do you know whether these orders were carried out and invariably if men went with the train'.' A. I think so. I don't know why they shou^,d not. 2612 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Wliat is your opinion of the statement which has come before tis and has been freely given that it was impossible to find out from anyone where anything was in those cars, and the class? A. I did not give these orders until we found out that there was congestion there. Q. What were the steps taken iirevious to this congestion? A. None, only the general regulations. I did not know but what they could handle the stuff going through. I did not know how much was going. I could not tell. Q. Can you tell tis whether there were any means taken by the depot quarter- master at the various stations frcm which these things were sent to inform the quartermaster at Tampa that car No. i)9o, for instance, contained so and so? A. No, sir; I do not know whether they did it or not. I hardly believe they were able to do it? Q. And therefore when the cars got down there, up to the time of the action by your department, there were no means adopted by the depot (luartermaster to find out what was in the car without opening it? A . Unless the bills of lading had arrived. We had to send shipments sometimes without the bills of lading. Q. Now, Colonel, leaving the question of railroad transportation, we will take lip the question of water transportation. What were your duties in reference to that? A. I had everything to do with it. Q. Will you please state what it was? A. In anticipation of the movement of troops on the ocean — the Army had never done anything of this kind; we had never transported troops by sea; it was some- thing new to the Army of the United States— I took the precaution to send an officer— we had two officers in New York, whose whole duty it was; one whose whole duty it was, and another to assist him— to go to every steamship company and get the name of every ship and get the tonnage and everything about that ship, and we had that long before we were called upon for a ship. Q. Who were those two officers? A. Those two officers were Colonel Kimball and Major Summerhayes. Q. What method did you adopt? Did you take anything in sight that you wanted or did you send to these people to know whether they could spare them and what they would charge? iV. There v/as not enough in sight for us to take. We had to take what we could get. We took all we could get and then we did not have enough. We went to the Mallory Line, and the Ward Line, and the Merchants and Miners" Line, the Clyde Line, every one of them, every American steamship company that had any ships. We had them to come to our office and made arrangements there in my office between the Assistant Secretary of War and myself. All they did in New York was to report what ships were available and their condition — we could not go there to do that— and they were ordered to fit them out. Q. Did you take every ship belonging to these lines that was fit for sea duty? A. Not at first. We took all the Ward Line. Their ships were laid up because Havana was closed and certain Mexican ports. We took all the Mallory Line they could spare. We did not want to break up their lines. We took the best of the Merchants and Miners' Line. They were a little arbitrary. They did not want to give them up, and we said that if they would not give them up we would seize them. The Clyde Line held out a long time, but after a while they begged us to take some. Q. In making arrangements for chartering the vessels, what arrangements did you make as to the amount to be paid bj^ the United States? A. I tried to arrange it by tonnage. We tried to pay 15 cents for a gross ton COL. CHARLES BIRD. 2613 (this was much more than was paid in the war of rebellion) for 3,000 tons and over. <.^). What does 15 cents per gross ton mean? A. Say a vessel is :^,000 tons, 15 cents would be $450 a day. Under that, we tried to arrange for 20 cents a ton: and under 2,000, 25 cents per ton. Q. So far as yon were concerned, then, these prices were determined by the Assistant Secretary of War after a conference with you? A. Always. Q. Were these charters always made in accordance with your recommendation as to prices? A. Yes, the Assistant Secretary of War and I tried our level best to get the people down. The last ships we got we had to pay much higher prices than at first. Q. Were these prices, in your opinion, based upon existing conditions, reasona- ble; or, in other words, if you were in private business, under similar circiun- stances, wo\ild j'ou have deemed the price reasonable if you had been called upon to pay it? A. Yes, sir. We knew that some companies who chartereil other ships— they had to charter vessels to tal:e their iilace and had to pay higher X)rices propor- tionately than we did. Mr. Clyde told me himself when I was trying to "jew" him down — he told me, ••Colonel Bird, yo\i have got the cheapest lot of ships that have ever been chartered." Q. In all this action that you took, until you reached the Assistant Secretary of War, were you sustained i)romptly and thoroughly by the chief of your bureau? A. [n every respect. Q. Were any impediments thrown in your way by .slowness of action on the part of anyone iiigher in aulliority than you in the work committed to your (charge? A. I don't think so. The matter was handled between the Assistant Secretary of War and myself. Q. And the Quartermaster-General? A. He acquiesced in everything. He felt the necessity of it and encouraged me in every way. 1 never took anything to him but what lie upheld me. Q. After the vessels w^^re chai'tered, then, tbey passed out of your hands and were turned over to officers in New York ior fitting or victualing, or anything of that kind? A. No, sir; not out of our liands, but under our direction they were fitted there. Some we chartered in New York, some in Mobile, some in New Orleans and Savannah. Q. What I wanted to get at was this: You and the Assistant Secretary of War personally executed these charters. After that did you personally attend to the equipment and victualing of these vessels? A, No, sir; we personally directed them what to do — to fit up this ship as to this and that. The victualing on all chartered ships was done by the companies. We had nothing to do wnth that. These ships were all chartered, and the only thing we did — the first one or two ships insisted upon our assuming the marine risk. I stood out against it and said we would not pay it and woiald s»^ize the ships if necessary, and in only two cases did we assume the marine risk, and not one dollar has the Government had to pay — not anything. We made every ship assume any damage that happened and each ship had to assume the marine risk. Q. In chartering these vessels, did that include the officers and crew of the ves- sel and the entire victualing? A. Everything but the coal and water. Q. Now, having got that far along with the charter of these vessels, will you 2614 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT (^F WAR WITH SPAIN. state to lis what action you took in regard to the purchase of the vessels, and how many were purchased? A. Foitrteen ships were purchased — two on the Pacific coast and twelve of them on this coast here. I had nothing to do with the purchase of these ships. I would like to say to the commission that we were forced to buy ships by the action of Congress. I was always opposed to buying ships, but we had exhausted our own resources and there was nothing we could lay our hands on. We were short of vessels. They were nothing but freight ships. Every one of those ships we chartered on the Atlantic coast were freight ships. Some had a little room for cabin passengers and things of that kind, but they were freight carriers and we could not put ai*tificial ventilation in them. We had to depend on whatever we could construct to get air to these peop'e. Q. Who did have charge of the purchasing of these vessels? A. I was going to say that a good many of these ships that were purchased I had in my own mind before anybodj' purchased them. I had a paper in my own hands — an offer from C. P. Huntington to purchase vessels for us — and the day I went to the Assistant Secretary of War I was introduced to Colonel Hecker, who purchased the vessels. Q. The whole subject was under him? A. He and I together. I was not consulted verj' much about the purchase of the vessels; it was put in his hands. Q. The transports having been chartered and having been put in your possession, what was the next step yoii took? A. Fitting them for the troops. Q. And how was that done? A. By orders from the Quartermaster-General's Office to the officers at these points I have mentioned, to put up standees as comfortably as they could carry them. Q. Did yon go into details or give general instructions? A. Went into details. Q. Then you gave the orders to put xip these standee bunks? A. Yes, sir; the standee bunks, and also to provide ample provision for water. Q. And the arrangement for water-closets? A. No, sir: we did not go into that except to T)ut up some temporary troughs. Q. With reference to the standee bunk, did that include anything in the way of bedsacks, or did you cover the wooden bunk? A. Wooden bunk. That is the kind I always rode in. The ships that were fitted out on the Atlantic coast were not fitted to go 1,000 miles. They were fitted to go to Havana. They were not intended to go to Santiago. They were intended to carry men in about a thirty-six hour run. On the Pacific coast we fitted these ships up elaborately to carry men 7.000 miles. Q. What kind of bunks are they? A. The Turner patent bunk— a wooden frame with a woven-wire mattress; and then another excelsior mattress and pillow was furnished to everj^ man on the ship. Q. In putting up these bunks they put up one above the other? A. Three high; and in the daytime it was a settee like that [indicating]. Q. What arrangements between decks and the hull were made on those ships? A. We had windlasses and portholes and large holes in tlie deck hatchways. These ships were all perfectly comfortable so long as there was no storm. There was i^lenty of ventilation as long as they could keep these hatchways open. Q. In the discharge of the official duties committed to j^ou when in charge of the transportation by rail and by water, and for a short time the animal trans- portation, were you fully sustained and promptly sustained in all the action taken by you? COL. CHARLES BIRD. 2615 A. I think so, sir. Q. Were prices paid in every instance, so far as you know, the result of com- petition, where it could be so, and were such prices reasonable from the time you jjfot there, in your opinion? A. 1 think so. Q. Is there anything- more you can tell us in i-egard to your department which will assist nsV A. I do not know anything. I was talking to Colonel Jones about the lighters. I went into that very fully. I had my own phin that I had picked up from a naval officer, and that was the question in our expedition to Cuban waters — to supply them with a lighter of some kind to use in going there. It was an ordinary lighter, drawing a foot of water, that could be lashed to the sides of the shij)s. It has been done, and men could go on thorn hy the fifties, and they could use them, and if they did go to pieces, it would not be much loss. I suggested this. Q. To whom did you make that suggestion? A. To several officers. They did not seem to think it was necessary. It was afterwards adopted. I think General Stone had a lot of them made for them at Jacksonville. Q. Did you make the suggestion to your superior, Colonel, in your department? A. I did not make it as something to be adopted, but 1 said it was a good plan. Q. Did you make it to him? A. We talked about it. We were never asked about any of those things. It was only looking out for what we would be called upon to furnish. I went from Boston to Galveston to get steam lighters, and I only found four. One M-as in Baltimore. It was not finished then. We just bought her. We are going to send her to Santiago to use her there. The others were the Ciniibcrhind, Bessie, and Laiii-a. In anticipation they wer.' piit there so thej' could use them whei*- ever they could go. Q. How many did you send over to Santiago; how many lighters, steam scows, or anything of the kind? A. The engineer officers with the command .started with the Lnvrn and Cnni- hrrland, steam lighters. The Bessie they left behind. She went to the Pensacola yards. They started with the steam tug C'cqyf. Savi, and two lighters. Q. Whose dut}' would it have been to supply these lighters — what department of the Government? A. I felt it was the Quartermaster's Department. Those we did supply we were not asked for. We sent them there in anticipation of their being needed. Q. In getting scows or anything of that kind, did yoii call upon any branch to assist you in this matter? A. Yes, sir; after General Shatter got there he wanted some. We got two of these lighters from Key West. We started out two that we got from the Missis- sii)pi Improvement Company, from New Orleans. Q. The Chief of Engineers, or the Mississii^pi Improvement Company? A. From your department. We started them out with the tug Uiidencriter. We started out from Mobile with three, and started out with the ocean tug Nim- rod. The Feni got to Santiago with two of hers, but they were wrecked. Tiie Underwrite}- we sent with her tugs through the Yucatan Pass, and she got over all right. The Nlmrod lost all her lighters, and she came back by Key West. Q. Then, really, how many lighters did you succeed in getting there? A. None. All that got there was the ocean tug Uitdenoritev. Q. How many did you lose? A. Five. Q. On account of the storm? A. We have had the case of the Nimrod before the Attorney-General. The evi- dence is such that they were lost in the storm. They filled with water and sunk. 2616 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. The evidence was so strong— we have already written to the Attorney-General to send the papers back. By General McCook: Q. Do yoii remember when the order was issued for the first mobilization of the ArrayV A. I can not give the date. Q. How long after the order was issued was the Quartermaster's Department enabled to furnish the transportation of these troops? A. I don't remember that. We had all our rates long before that. Q. Do you know of any regular troops having moved down to the depot and delayed there on account of transportation not being furnislied with it? A. At what depot? Q. Any of the Western depots. A. The only regiment I know that was held back was a Kansas regiment, and that was done because a road bid si) a head to bring these men from somewhere in Kansas. That's the only regiment that was held back and had any trouble. Q. I am speaking of the Regular Army. A. I never heard a complaint from the Regular Army. We brought them from the Pacific coast and I never heard a complaint. Some of the roads were changed. They were routed to New Orleans and the orders were changed to go to Chickamauga. That made confusion. We sometimes had to have that route changed to get equipment. You know it is a serious thing to change a regiment's route coming so far. Q. Transportation was there ready for them when the troops arrived at the depot? A. I never heard anything to the contrary. I watched that pretty closely and took it up with the railroads. Q. Do yoii or not know that an order was issued from your department requir- ing that all the transportation be thrown upon 'the Long Island Railroad from New York? A. 1 don't (juite understand. The Long Island Railroad made a flat rate to haul everything over. They wanted to haul all the troops. I have forgotten now just how that was. Thej' made a rate for a cent a mile with the understanding that they would haul the freight and haul everything that was not hauled by the Gov- ernment transports or those employed by the Government. Q. Do you know whether Colonel Kimball received an order to ship everything by that Long Island Railroad, or not to employ any other transportation? A. No, sir; I do not think he did. The commission ought to understand that. The reason there was any restriction against other lines running there was to prevent excursion boats from landing at those docks. They were not sufficient at the best. You know how much trouble we had with them. Q. I am speaking about Government freight— horses, mxiles, and everything connected with it. A. No, sir; I do not recollect anything of the kind. I know all that stuff was roiited from Tampa over the Pennsylvania road, because the Pennsylvania road had a contract to deliver them at Long Island. They had a ferry that crossed the bay. They had to deliver them to the Long Island road, and we had not any- thing else to handle them. We did not have any ships. Everything that was chartered at Montauk Point — the Shinuecock was chartered for moving out the sick. Q. Do you know what was the occasion for taking the troops from Tampa and" Georgia and Fort McPherson and carrying them to Montauk Point? A. I had nothing to do with that. Q. You know that was done? OOL. CHARLES BIRD. 2617 A. Yes, sir. Q. You don't know what was the occasion of it? A. No, sir. This is my opinion: That the cavalry were all separated from their stock. We had not anything to carry their stock over. The cavah-y regiments were dismounted and taken as infantry, and I suppose they wanted to get their horses to these men. and they s^nt them to Montauk Point, where they were going. I do not know why it was done. Q. When you established Montauk Point as a camp there, what was the idea of it — what was to be its nature? A. I had nothing to do with that; that is entirely in another branch. Its nature, I suppose, was to take care of the people coming from Cuba— getting the regi- ments together. They left part of their troops behind. By Colonel Denby: Q. The war being over, might it not have been the proper thing to do to con- centrate troops at Montauk or anywhere else? A. I think so. • These horses that went there belonged to the cavalry. (^. They sent mules and transportation? A. There were not many mules; a great many went over, and there were a great many mules left behind ;>t Tampa. Q. Colonel, when did you send the order to seaports to put the numbers of cars on the invoices and mark the cars? A. Just as soon as we heard there was a congestion at Tampa. Q. What time was that: was that after the troops started for Cuba? A. Oh, no; before that. I can not give the date, t can get it for you; I tliink it is in our reports to you. Q. We have testimony of the chief (juartermaster at Tampa showing the num- bers were not put on the invoices and they were not marked. A. Well. I guess Ihat it is so. A shipment is made to-day and the biil of lading is put in the hands of the shippers, and there are two bills of ladiug— one the original and the other the duplicate. The dui)licate goes to the consignee, and the other is piit in with the freight. Q. (^ur testimony is they did not receive tuem? A. It was beyond human possibility to get that freight out and have bills of lading; it was almost impossible for them to do it. Q. Do you know why boats wer-e loaded at New York and Philadelphia and sent to Savannah and Charleston and unloaded there to ship by rail? A. Only to facilitate and save express. We could make better time. I don't know — we took advantage of the ocean steamship at Savannah to ship from New York. We could get the stuff down there twenty-four hours quicker by sea than rail, unless we sent it by fast freight, which was expensive. By Colonel Sexton: Q. I do not see why you could save time by boat? A. There was no impediment. There was always a transfer to be made on the railroad. Q. Cars remained there for weeks untouched? A. We did not have that trouble up here at Dunn-Lnring. There would have been congestion here if they had not gone into the cars. Q. How is a movement to take place in an army like the movement in Tampa? Is it not the duty of the Quartermaster-General to anticipate all wants of that army and pre]iare for it without being specifically notified as to each article? A. We did try to anticipate it. I think we did try to anticipate it. I don't know to what you refer. Q. I refer to the quartermaster's supplies. 2018 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. We worked night and day. We kept our force going night and day. We have never had a Sunday or holiday or anything, and we did not even have Thanksgiving Day. We worked night and day in that office in anticipation of the wants of the men. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Was there any written or verbal contract with the Long Island Railroad that would prevent the Government from shipping by water any of the troops, animals, or supplies to Montauk Point? A. No, sir; the understanding was with Baldwin and myself. I don't think that contract was ever signed. I don't think it was: it may have been. I said I would never agree to any contract that would not allow xis to use our transports to go and come and carry everything that was wanted. Q. Will you please state whether or not in case of an expedition like General Shafter's to Cuba being ordered by the Secretary of War, and the Quartermaster- Cxeneral is notified by the Secretary of War of the number of troops that is desired to be transported, whether or not it is the duty of the Quartermaster-General, without specific orders of the Secretary of War as to the character of the trans- ports, etc. , that he supposes it is his duty to supply the necessary number of trans- ports to carry the troops and transportation and to furnish landing facilities for that expedition after the arrival at the point of debarkation? A. Provided the Quartermaster-General is told how many men are to go — and animals — and where they are going to land, yes, sir. That was never done. I don't think they knew themselves where they were going to land. Q. Then, I understand you to say the Quartermaster-General was never notified as to the size of the expedition? A. No, sir. Q. Was he ever requested to prepare for such an expedition? A. Yes, sir; he was told to prepare — to get all the shijjs he could to carry as many men as he coiild to Mariel or Havana, and we did it. We have carried troops, gentlemen. 1 was in the infantry, and we have carried troops from Ari- zona down through the Gulf to California and up through San Francisco with the same arrangements I put up on those ships to carry troops over to Havana in thirty- six hours, and I never heard any complaint. Q. Will you tell me why the Quartermaster's Department did not have a nmn- ber of vessels there to put in (quartermaster's supplies, and did not have (quarter- master employees see that the ships laden with quartermaster's stores and commis- sary stores consigned to some depot (luartermaster at Sibouey, unloaded there, rather than to go helter-skelter all in one ship, piled one t^n top of the other, and then no arrangement made by the Quartermaster's Department upon the arrival there to unload these supplies? A. That, I hold, belongs to the officers. They had unrestricted authority. I remember they asked us for stevedores from New York, and we sent them there. Q. Is it not the business of the Quartermaster-General to supply these things? A. Every ship we sent out from New Orleans and New York we had put on board of them at least five stevedores to go with these ships, so as to instruct the comuKm laborers they might hire. The records show that the stevedores went on them and came back — five or six stevedores. Q. Would that amoiint to much? A. It would be giving their labor. By General Dodge: Q. Isn't it the custom in all transportation and other equipment that the sol- diers themselves load and unload? A. Certainly. I have always done it. I have been in the infantry, and our men always did it. COL. CHARLES BIRD. 2619 By Colonel Denby: Q. If the arrangements for landing Shafter's forces in Cuba, for transporting stores and medical supplies, were defective, who is to blame? A. 1 suppose the officers in the respective departments. Q. I want to find out as to whose business it was to order sufficient surf boats, sufficient lighters, sufficient means for landing after the tro'ops arrived in Cuba; in other words, was it the business of the Quartermaster's Department to furnish these things of its own motion Avithout any orders at all, or was it General Shaffer's or General Miles's business, or anybody else's business, to order them? A. I do not know whether that would be a proper question— to reflect upon those officers in charge. Q. You can answer for your own department? A. I think it would have been wrong for the Quartermaster-General to send down a lot of stuff of that character unless asked to do it. He did not know. He was absolutely ignorant as to what they were going to do. They knew what they were going to do. He did not know. If he expended a large amount of money and sent things down, they might say, " Why did you send all these things down?" Q. From whom ought these orders to have lieen issued? A. I siappose they knew what they were doing there. Q, Whose business was it— General Miles's business to see that that expedition went provided with everything in the world that they needed and ought to have had, or General Shaffer's, or the business of the War Department to do it itself without anybody to call upon them? A. I think those getting up the expedition ought to see that they had the equip- ment for it. The Quartermaster's Department is to furnish the equipment which is asked for. Q. I am not assuming there was any deficien-cy or wrongdoing, but I am ask- ing whose business it was to see that the expedition left Tampa provided with everything which it ought to have had to carry it to Cuba. A. If I had been there I would hav(^ considered it my business. Q. If you were in command? A. Yes, sir. Q. If there were not enough lighters and things of that sort A. We were ready. Treiaember dictating a telegram authorizing the quarter- master at Tampa— Colonel Humphrey, I think— that they had authority to go into any harbor in the Gulf or in the southern Atlantic coast and get any lighters or tugs they wanted. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Do you know what time that order was issued? A. No. .sir; I can not find it. By Governor Woodbury: Q. I understood in answer to ray ({uestion a moment ago that if the Secretary of War or the Commandiiig General had notified the Quartermaster-General that he desired to transport such a number of troops to a given point and to land them there, that, without any further specifications from anyone, it would be the diity of the Quartermaster- General to fully eqxuy) that expedition? A. Provided I could get them, and we stood ready to do it. Q. Was it the business of the Quartermaster-General, without any specifica- tions from anyone, without having received notification that it was desired to transport and land a certain numl)er of troops with all the supplies necessary, to furnish them transportation, without any specifications as to quantity? A. Yes, sir: but we never got them. It would have been his business if he had gotten it, and we would have done it. That is the reason I got this information in 2620 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. advance. I went from Boston to Galveston to know whnt I could get to supply them, and we could get only three lighters. There are plenty of steam lighters, but they draw as much as ships. Q. How long was it before the Quartermaster-General got information about the movement to Cuba? A. We were talking about it every day— about the movement to Havana. Q. When did you take action'.-' A. The ships were lying there for three or four weeks. Q. When did you make the effort to get the lighters— at the beginning or end? A. At the beginning; the lighters were all there. Q. When was the effort made to get them? A. These lighters were there long before they left. These lighters were at Gal- veston before we knew we were going to Santiago. I am the man that had that in charge. I had officers in Boston, Baltimore, New York, and Philadelphia, and I had them in New Orleans and Galveston— officers looking out for those things, long in advance, expecting a call. I was there from the very beginning, even Ijefore— as I told the gentleman— I thought out that matter of these lighters lashed to the ships, and then the steam- lighter (luestion, and I went so far as to see whether I could get heavy barges and load them with stones and sink them on the coast so lighters could get up to them. Q. Did you consider there was a sufficient number of transports with the expe- dition of Shatter? A. It was all we could get. We got three foreign vessels entered into the American register, two at Mobile and one running to Porto Rico. There were plenty of ships we could have gotten under a foreign flag, but we could not charter them. It had to be done by an act of Congress. By General Dodge: Q. You had to confine yourselves to the American ships? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. Did you discuss the question in any way as to who should have command of these transports, whether the Government or Army should control them after they started for their destination? A. No, sir. By General Dodge: Q. The first order from you was to furnish transports, say, for the purpose of transporting the anny to Mariel, or Cuba? A. The first order we got was to furnish transports to transport .5,000 men to Cuba. That was the force General Shatter was to take as a reconnoissance. Q. What was the next order? A. To get Government transports to take an army. General Miles wanted to take 80.000 or .3."). 000 men to Cuba. Q. Didn't you know that the entire force had to be landed, no matter where it struck Cuba, by lighters? A. Yes, sir; I knew that. Q. Now, in providing that, was it not the duty of your depa^tTuent, without any further orders, to prepare the lighters for landing this force in Cuba at the same time they furnished transports? A. That matter was suggested to General Miles by myself. I suggested it to him, and my impression is I suggested taking pontoon trains down and use them. Q. But you can not use them in the surf? A. But if they got a little sheltered water they could ]mt the boats out and get some of the lighters up to them. 1 thought it was a good thing to have them. COL, CIIAKLES IJIRD. 2G21 Q. Suppose you had taken small launches and put them aboard each one of these boats? A. They could not carry them. They did not have any davits to do it with. I was at Cramp's shipyard two weeks ago yesterd;iy, and I saw a big piece of iron 9 inches in diameter and I asked Mr. Cramp what that was. He stated, " That is the davit for the Mobile.'' I said, " You don't mean to tell me that it takes such a piece of iron as that?" He said, " Nothing less than that will do."' You could not get a steam launch on any of those boats. You could get naphtha launches, which were no good. Q. They would do for your small boats? A. You can not depend on them. They would not last in that water. For in. stance, we bought the Bay State from Massachusetts, and they have a naphtha launch on it. Tliey want to get it off. It is unsuccessful — no good. Q. So yoixr experience is that these small launches were of no use to you in landing troops? A. We have two at Ponce. Wo got them from the Navy after the war and are having nine built ourselves with the regular steam engine in them and are putting them on our ships. Q. It seems to me in New York you can get them? A. But they have to havo davits to take them up. Q. But couldn't you have them? A. We did not have time to put them on. We worked night and day. We put gangs of men on in New Yoric and worked them clear until we got to Tampa to put those standees up. The thing was bought to-night and to-uiorrow she was off to sea. We bought every wine cask we could to put water on them. They had not anything aboard them. Q. What time was it; up to the 30th of May? A. I don't remember the date we got them down there. They were kept at Tampa. They laid there for three or four weeks. We had no facilities and could not do anything at Tampa, as there wei'e no machine shops there. By General McCook: Q. Did anybody ever suggest to you about surfboats being carried aboard these transports? A. No, sir; they all had surfboats. Colonel Humphrey told me he had enough surfboats to land all the men. There is scarcely a surfboat but what we had to replace them. They wex'e smashed to pieces landing the troops. Q. Now, as I understand from you, when Shatter's expedition sailed, or when it was supposed to sail, it had provided three tugs? A. No, sir; three lighters. Q. And two lighters were steam? A. Two lighters were steam and an ocean tug. Q. If they had them on the coast of Cuba, that, in your opinion, would have been sufficient to land his supplies? A. They thought so. Q. As I understand, two of these tugs started Witness (interrupting). Two of the steam lighters went. Q. One was lost? A. Two of the lighters were not steam. Q. I mean steam? A. They started with two steam lighters and an ocean tug and two ordinary lighters, leaving behind the Bessie— Vaey had authority to charter the Tarpon. She was used in the harbor. If they wanted her, why didn't they take her? Q. What did they get there with? A. With the Bessie, steam lighter, the Laura, a steam lighter, and one ordinary 2622 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. lighter. One steam lighter was left behind, and they lost one of the ordinary lighters. Q. They started with three? A. Yes. sir. Q. One was in Pensacola? A. Yes, sir; she was sent afterwards. She is at Santiago now. Q. What is her name? A. Bessie. We sent her down with Colonel Flagg. He took the Bessie and the Smrance. another boat, for landing purposes. Q. How many reached Santiago? A. He got through with all these. Q. Did he take them to Pome? A. No. sir. Q. Did they have to lighter everything in Santiago Harbor? A. No, sir; not now. Q. Have they built wharves? A. No, sir; there is one wharf they can use. It takes ten days to get a ship out of Santiago with an ordinary load. By General Wilson: Q. What draft is that tug? A. Fifteen feet. We are using all our lighters down there now. Q. They have been made since? A. Yes, sir. The Adonis, built in Baltimore, has been completed and we have bought her. Q, You made the statement that the transports that were sent to Tampa were all fitted for simply cruising to Cuba? A. Those, up to the time of the campaign, were sent to Santiago. Q. And after you ordered them you used them as they stood? A. Yes, sir; but did not put as many men in them as they wanted. Q. Why not? A. Did not have the ventilation. We went to the expense of $o.000 in charter- ing ships to put artificial ventilation in, electric lights, fans, and everything of that sort. That was after that; we had not time to do it with them. We did not have time on the first ones. In addition to that, we bought five fans and sent them to Tampa, and they did not have the machinery there to put them on and had to send them back. We have a transport going out on Monday. A gentle- man told me it is the handsomest transport in the world— the Mobile. Q. How are these ships coaled — who does the coaling? A. We did it all. They were coaled in New York, and they made their trip with the coal which loaded tham down. We put coal on them everywhere so as to have enough to make a round trip. We did not have coal in Cuba; we had coal at Tampa and Fernandina. Now we have coal at Ponce and San Juan. Q. You carried coal sufficient for a round trip? A. We could get coal at $2.75 in New York and it would coat us $5 or $G South- Q. You put coal in for ballast? A. We did at first, but we put granite in now for ballast. Wo have the Massa. chnsetts and Mobile now fitted up to carry 2.200 men with ample galleys supposed to cook all the men eat. The deck under the upper deck is given entirely for messing. Q. How old a boat is she; is she the oldest? A. I think so. She is the oldest of the lot. By General Dodge: Q. Now, as to the ships chartered at San Francisco; how long did it take to transform them? COL. CHARLES BIRD. 2623 A. Al)Oiit ten clays. On that J^Iohih: we put in the same bnnk. We have a bunk now, just a frame of iron with a canvas sack. You don't have to put a mattress on it at all. You can take that off and wash it and put it back. All these things move UX5 and in the daytime it is open. On the MohUe the frames are all up where the mattresses have to hang in. Q. Do you prefer them to hammocks? A. Men don't like hammocks. By General McCook: Q. What are the fastenings on the Mobile — wood? A. Yes, sir. By General Dodge: Q. You say men don't like the hammocks? A. No, sir; they dcni't like the hammocks. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Was Colonel Humphrey, during the time he was at Tampa and during the time he was with General Shaffer's expedition — state whether or not he was under the orders of the Quartermaster's Department. A. Yes, sir; I think he was. Humphrey had a good many commanding officers down there. He served a good many people. He did everji;hing in the world to make the thing go. By General Dodge: Q. He was under the Quartermaster-General. Was he not under the command- ing general of the expedition also? A. He was General Miles's chief quartermaster. He went there by General Miles's order to have supervision of things, and he commenced and I think he worked with General Shaffer and anybody he could to aid them. By Governor Woodbury: Q. If the Quartermaster-General had given him an order and General Miles had given him an ordtr to the contrary, which order woiild he obey? A. I think he would obey the one who had the most rank, because he would have been in command. By Captain Howell: Q. That is one of the questions that bothers me — who did have the most rank? A. I had too much to do in my office to find out. By General Beaver: Q. Is it an open question, in your opinion, whether the staff department is superior to the major-general in the field or whether the major-general in the field, if he dili'ers from the head of the statf department, has the superior author- ity? Is that an open qiiestion or is it settletl in the Army? A. The Quartermaster-General holds the purse string. He says "If I have not the money, he is not master."' Q. That is, if something is ordered from the field by the officer in command and it is in the law, as construed by the Qiiartermaster- General, he is bound to furnish it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Otherwise he construes the law and handles the money? A. It is hard to construe the law to fit every case. By General Dodge : Q. Will you please make any statement that you desire in relation to your department or any suggestion that you think would be of benefit to the service? 2G24 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I don't know tliat we have anything. General Dodge. I have gone pretty fully into everything. Q. You may have some suggestions that would be of benefit to your department from past experience. A. The only complication that has arisen was m the handling of the steamships. Our department never had" anything of that kind to do. We have transported 100,000 people at sea, something that we never did before, and as I have just said, we are fitting up the best transports in the world. A gentleman in my office told me he never saw anything like the Mobile. They have a hospital twice as large as this room and everything in the ship a man can want. The} have fine bunks with mattresses, and he says he never saw anything like it. By Captain Howell : Q. How do you explain the fact that the Cuncho left there with men that were not authorized to go on that boatV A. I don't know anything about that. Q. You were not there when the Concho left? A. No, sir. By General Dodge : Q. Transportation by way of Savannah is the regular line to Tami)a and all Southern points? A. Yes, sir. Washington, D. C, Decembers, 1S08. TESTIMONY OF COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. Col. Crosby P. Miller, upon request, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Colonel, will you please give us your full name and rank and department in which you served? A. Crosby P. Miller; major, Quartermasters Department: colonel liy assignment to the duties in charge of one of the bureaus in the Quartermaster's Department. Q. What biTreau is that? A. Transportation and regular supplies; all transportation, except rail and water. That covers all matters pertaining to the supplies of wagons, animals, forage, and everything of that kind. Q. Where is your principal office. Colonel? A. In the Quartermaster-Gleneral's Office, in Washington. Q. Have you had any practical service outside your office during the war, or have your duties been directed from the Quartermaster-General's Office? A. Entirely from the Quartermaster-General's Office, with the exception of one week at Montauk Point. Q. When was that week at Montauk Point? A. I think the 28th of July when I went up there, immediately after the order was issued making that encampment. I was directed to go up there until Captain Knight was to be the regular quartermaster in charge. Captain Patten had been assigned and went up there two days before, but he was thought not to have sufficient ex])erience. Q. You went there not with reference lo the duties of your Bureau, but had the entire Quartermaster's Department under control while there? A. Yes, sir. COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. 2G25 Q. To what extent was the Governuient supplied with transportation — wagons anil animals — at the time of the outbreak of the war with Spain? Can you toll us, in general, what was available^ A. We were limited at the outbreak of the war in horses — in artillery and cav- alry horses — to the number of mounted cavalry and Indian scouts. For draft purposes we were limited to somewhere about S.-IOO. I don't recall the exact number. We had on hand really 2,200 draft animals at that time. (^. And the number of wagons that would be represented by that number of animals? A. Yes, sir; we had somewhere — we had two classes of wagons, about an e(|ual number: the army wagon, six-mule; and the escort wagon, a four-mule wagon. We had somewhere near 1,000. Q. What was the number of animals required and the number of wagons re- ({uired to properly equip such an army as was brought into the field according to the regulations? A. With the Seventh Army Corps, when they were called out they were not all fully organized, but there were 25 to the infantry, 45 to the cavalry, and 5 to a light battery, which made somewhere about 2i5 wagons for a division; 275 to cJOO, iiccording to whether there were three divisions to a corps; say about 750 wagons to the corps. Q. That would be about 5,000, in round numbers? A. Yes, sir. Q. To what extent were the manufacturers of the country able to meet such a demand? A. We found at the start it was impossible to get our army wagons according to specifications, because they could only make them slowly. We had to take ]iatterns from such manufacturers who had stock well seasoned. Before the war broke out letters had been sent to all the leading wagon manufacturers, and the dei)artment found out how many they could turn out weekly, ana we were ready to give out orders just as soon as war was declared. The best we could do was 50 a week. Q. How many in the country were able to supply to that extent? A. Well, we had, I think, about seven; the Studebaker, the Toledo, the Columbia Wagon Works, near Philadelphia, a firm in Chattanooga, a firm in Martinsburg, W. Va. Q. Where is the Milburn Wagon Company? A. At Toledo. There is a firm at Milwaukee that turned out a number for us. We tried to get wider tires in the South on accorint of bad roads. Our old escort wagon was not sufficiently wide. We succeeded after a time in getting oA-inch tires. Q. Then the maximum output of the manufacturers of the country considered reliable would not have exceeded about 400 a week. A. No, sir. Q. That depended not upon what you wanted, but upon the materials they had on hand to make them? A. Yes, sir; and a good many could not turn out 50 a week. There were only two or three that could turn out 50 a week. Q. How long, under the most favorable circumstances, would it have required for the Government to secure wagons according to the specifications which you furnished? A. We could not have gotten them in nine months. Q. It was a matter of necessity to take just what you could get? A. Absolute necessity. Q. How long were you in securing the number uf wagons as required for the equipment of the Army as it was organized and put in the field? 7833 — V(JL. G 15 2026 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. A. We started in at first furnishing what the regiments would actually require in camp. We furnished enough for the depot quartermaster and then four for each regiment. It took until well on in July. We supplied the troops ordered to Cuba first and left those at Camp Alger with a very much reduced transportation while they were in camp there. Q. Do you know the maximum number of wagons that were purchased during the war? A. About 3,600 of the so-called farm wagons and then a small number of army wagons and the escort wagons. The exact figures are given in my report. Q. Four thousand would cover it all? A. I think so. Q. At what period had this maximum number been reached? A. Not until about a month ago or a month and a half ago. We have still 100 or :200 that have not been delivered, that have been rejected. They have not com- pleted their contract in accordance with the specifications. They are not all delivered yet. Q. Did the contracts for furnishing ambulances come within your department? A. Yes, sir. Q. To what extent were the manufacturers of the country able to supply ami )ulances? A. That was more tlifficult than any of the others. The ©nly manufacturers that furnish ambulances at all are Studebaker and the Toledo Wagon Works. Q. Will you give us about the average cost? A. Somewhere about $b6 for these farm wagons. Q. What is the cost of the wagon according to your specification? A. They run a little over $100— about §106. The average for the farm wagon is $00.28; for the escort wagons, $78.76; army wagon, §101.76. Q. How many of the army wagons, according to specifications, were furnished during the war? A. We had contracts for 604, but there are 125 of them that have not been delivei'ed. They have been rejected. Q. That is, they furnished wagons, but they did not come up to the standard, and you rejected them and required others to be substituted in their place? A. Yes. sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you have inspectors at the various manufacturers' shops to see how these were constructed? A. We had inspectors at each one to examine the materials as they were cut and during the whole of the manufacturing of them. Q. Were these contracts awarded after competitive bids? A. Only to a certain extent. The first wagons we bought we awarded after telegraphing to these different manufacturers and getting their bids and calling upon them to state the number they could make per week. We wanted to reduce the kinds of wagons as much as possible on account of furnishing separate parts on the field; so if a man could only furnish a small number of wagons, I did not award them to him. By General Wilson: Q. General Beaver asked you the direct question how many Government wagons were issued to the troops during the war, and in your reply you gave him the number for which you had made contracts. Am I correct in assuming that you had Government wagons besides that when the war broke out? A. No, sir; when the war broke out they were all taken into the field for the troops. COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. 2627 Q. There -were other wagons with the troops. The natural inference is that that cm is all that you issued? A. All the wagons we had at the beginning of the war were in the hands of troops at the posts. By General Beaver: Q. That is— now I understand it. You had no reserve to issue? A. No, sir. Q. Now as to the ambulances. A. We had 90 when the war broke out? Q. In use? A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the regulation allowance to a regiment or battery or troop? A. Three to a regiment, making 37 to the division; and the wage m trans])orta- tion, -Jl to the division. We had made 500 Rocker ambulances and 50 of the Red Cross. Q. There were none. I suppose, on hand in the country outside the Army that you could purchase? A. No. sir: we had to have these made on regular specifications. Q. How soon were you able to get those. Colonel? A. They came in pretty slow. I don't recollect the exact time, but we had diffi- culty in gett'ing our ambulances fast enough at first. Q. What was the maximum number that were manufactured during the war? A. Five hundred and ninety-six. Q. When was the first contract for ambulances made, and with whom? A. With Studebaker, and made in the latter part of April. Q. Before or after the declaration of war? A. After, I think. Q. Had any preliminary inquiries been made in regard to the subject? A. I think' so. That was all before I came into the office. I am not certain when that contract was made. I found a contract made when I arrived at the ofiice. C). When did you assume duty? A. I think it was the 2:th of April when I reported. Q. When was the first delivery made under th<^ contract? Do yon know? A. I do not. They were delivering them when I arrived. The contract must have been made before the war. <^. When did they complete the delivery? A. That I can not tell. We made another contract soon after that. We called for bids and the Studebaker and Milburn people were the only ones that bid. It was given to the Milburn people. Q. What is the cost of the army ambulance wagon, Colonel? A. They average S345 in 500 lots. Q. You spoke of the Red Cross ambulance and another kind? A. The Rocker; it is different from the Red Cross. Q. What is the difference? A. In the Rocker ambulance, the place where the men lie— they have a place in front between the seats where a man can stand and an attendant can stand to assist the men. It is a heavier ambulance and a little bit longer and requires four mules. They had an idea that the Rocker ambulance would only reciuire two mules, but we found they really required four. Q. Were you able to supply the troops going into the field witli the ambulances necessary under the regulations? A. I immediately put all they actually required. The distribution of those 2628 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. ambulances at all times was under the Medical Department. We sent them just where the Surgeon-General decided. Q. Do you know as to the number of ambulances that were available for the Shaf ter expedition? A. I know we had between twenty and thirty down there. Q. You have no knowledge as to how many went with the exijedition, I suppose? A. No knowledge of my own. Q. Now. as to animals, Colonel, had you any difficulty in procuring mules in sufficient quantity for the transportation that was needed for tlie Army. A. We were at all times able to supply the mules and harness more rapidly than the wagons. Q. So that did not constitute a feature of the preparations that was difficult to solve? A. No, sir. Q. What were the methods pursued in regard to the purchase of the animals and harness? The same as to other quartermaster's supplies? A. In the purchase of harness, we called for bids in all cases and gave the awards and the large manufacturers turned it out very rapidly. In regard to the pur- chase of animals, they were all purchased by boards appointed by the Adjutant- General and veterinarians were furnished to assist them. C^). How many officers did each board consist of and what were the qualifications of the officers to serve? A. The boards varied. Colonel Ale.shire furnished nearly all the horses, both in the cavalry and artillery. He was an expert and continued purchasing for the regular cavalry and for the regular battery and he composed the boards. He had his regular men that had been with him a long time. For the supply of these bat- teries of volunteers and cavalry troops of volunteers, it was decided to buy as far as possible in the States in which these troops were raised, and b(jards were appointed usually with one volunteer officer on the board and two regulars, when it was possible to get them, and they made the purchases. Q. Were the details for those boards made from the cavalry and artillery respectively? A. No, sir; they were purchased where it was possible. There was an artillery officer for the purchase of artillery horses and a cavalry officer for cavalry horses. They had to take what they could get. Q. And a skilled veterinarian for each board? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the maximum price and what the minimum? A. We had to leave that to the discretion of the board, and that was determined by the locality and prices? Q. Have you the prices paid, Colonel? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you kindly give them to us? A. I have the prices here, really, of every board, and added up. [Witness refers to paper.] Q. What did they average? A. Cavalry, $101.43. Q. What was the maximum and what the minimum? A. I have not that figured out. Q. As to mules? A. Artillery horses, riding horses — do you care for that? General Beaver. Yes, sir. The Witness. Artillery horses averaged §130.85, and the small horses — those were intended for the Cubans— $57,46; riding liorses, $126.97; draft horses that COL. CK(JS15Y P. MILLER. 2629 went with the siege battery, $129.35; draft mules— the other drafts were §110.05; that, of course, iiichided the wheel and swing and lead; pack mules were iss.50. ' Q. Do you know of any combinations having been formed in any locality topui the price of animals xip? A. The boards had to l)eon the alert for that sort of thing. If they found there was anything of that kind occurring, they would jump the locality and go some- where else. We left that to their good sense. Q. They were not compelled to sulnnit to a combination of that kind^ A. Not at all. Q. How soon were you able to supply the animaLs for cavalry and artillery and for transportation, after the war began? A. We purchased them .just as rapidly as we could supply the wagons, and we kept 500 to 1,000 mules ahead all the time ready to send right in. The artillery horses were very difificult t(^ purchase. They had to be specially selected. Q. In the purchase of mules, did you buy any green mules that had not been broken? A. We tried not to. The instructions were not to, and in St. Louis, where a good many were purchased, they had them all harnessed up and tried. Q. As a matter of fact, you did get some? A. As a matter of fact, when I was at Montauk and tried to hitch up some of the mules, I don't think they were very well broken. Q. You were able, then, to put the transportation into the field just as soon as the wagons could be supplied? That was the problem, and all the other features entering into it were easily solved? A. Yes, sir. Q. It was economy to supply the animals only so fast as you could supply the wagons? You would not have to feed them in the meantime? A. Yes, sir. Q. At the present time. Colonel, how is the United States Government furnished with animals for cavalry, artillery, and wagon transportation in ca.se of any diffi- culty? Could we put an army of 200.000 men into the field tully equipped with an ordinary ru.sh of cavalry and artillery and all field transportation facilities? A. Not with the number of animals we have on hand now— not 200,000 men. We have enough for the present force in the field. Q. Have you sold animals since the cessation of hostilities? A. Yes, sir; those that have been found not fitted for service we have sold. We have not sold any of the good ones. Those taken by the Rough Riders that were not suited for cavalry were sold. A good many of those have been sold. The best have been picked out and kept. Q. Do you know what the loss was? Have you figured that out— the loss on the average between the purchase and selling price? A. No, sir; it was a good deal more than it ought to have been. Q. When yon bought, the demand was great and the supplies small, and when you sold, the demand was light and the supply aljundant? A. We sold some the other day in Texas-485. at San Antonio— at §21.60: but that is a fair price, considering the locality and time of the year. Q. ¥/hen you went to Montauk, Colonel, what did you find there— the 28th of July, I think you said, you went? A. I know it was on a Friday; I am not certain whether it was the 28th. General Beaver. Twenty-ninth was Friday. The Witness. I found the railroad company had commenced to build two side tracks. There was not a place where you could get anything to eat within 4 miles of the station, and I found it very difficult in gettmg anything started, because I could not provide for the subsistence of the men. I was authorized to use every 2630 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. means possible and not to consider the matter of expense at all; to get that place organized as soon as possible. Q. How long previous to yoxir going there had that been determined upon as a camp rendezvous for the returning troops from Santiago? A. I am not quite certain, but only a few days — four or five days. Captain Pat- ten had gone out two days before me with an expert biiilder, Mr. Smith, and I met them at the depot and made contracts for the preparation of the wharf for the vessels. Q. There was no wharf there? A. There was a wharf there, but we had to drive large piles before a vessel could arrive at all. We made a contract for building storehouses, and the best we could do was to have them up in eight days, and we ordered large quantities of lumber in there for tent floors and things of that kind— everything we could fore- see. I met General Yoimg there at the office, and we went up all over thegrouud, and he decided where the camps should be, and he made arrangements for dig- ging the wells and putting in the pumps and everything of that kind. The diffi- culty at first was providing for the men. Q. Was there anything in the way of transportation facilities in the region — wagons? Were you able to hire wagons or men? A. Could not hire a thing there. Q. From what points did you get transportation? A. I ordered more transportation from Washington when I first went over there. Q. Was that taken by rail or water? A. By rail. There was some delay in getting that over. Then I tried to get teams up from New York, which I did. Q. You were there how long? A. Five days. Q. At the time this camp was determined upon had that been considered as a probable thing — the troops coming from Tampa there— or was that an afterthoughl , or don't you know? A. 1 do not know as to that. That was ordered from the Adjutant-Generals Office. Q. At the time you left, what progress had been made toward the preparation of the camp for the i-eception of the men returning; when ditl the tents arrive? A. We had quantities of tents there before I left —tents and clothing, and the different camp sites had all been staked out and we had every carpenter we could get from all those stations down on the railroad and a lot sent in from New York that were putting in the floors for the hospitals. That was made the first thing. The best thing we could do when the Ninth Cavalry came in was to give tliem their lumber and let them do it themselves. C^. To what extent had the lumber arrived when you left? A. We had as much lumber as we could haul. It was a question of teams more than lumber. C^. Supplies were ahead of the transportation all the time you were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. You would not agree with a man in New York who told us that houses could be built there in two days? A. If that is so, then I am a very incompetent man. Q. Did you make a contract for a specific amount of lumber? A. No, sir; we ordered it. Q. Fixed the price by the thousand and then ordered it? A. Yes, sir; we got bids from the different lumber companies around there. Q. To what extent was the railroad company able to handle the supplies of quar- termaster stores, including lumber and tents, as they came in? COL. CROSBY P. MILLET 2631 A. They were doing that very well up to the time 1 lef i. Q. They kept ahead of your demands, then, in that respect? A. I think they did; we had no trouble. The great difficulty was in unloading them — in getting the cars empty — our storehouses not being completed, and not having enough teams to take the lumber right away. Q. Was the commissary storehouse completed before you left? A, No, sir. Q. To what extent was it built? A. They had the lumber all out. the floors laid, and of coxirse they commenced to put floors on that as soon as that was done. Q. Looking back at that experience. Colonel, does your afterthought suggest any improvement that could have been made in i^reparing for the I'eception of those troops if you had it to do over again: could you do it more rapidly and with greater expedition than you did it? A. No, sir; if I could have had a few days beforehand to know what was com- ing, of course it would have been a very different thing. By General McCook: Q. Didn't most of the lumber come down there in box cars? A. No, sir; not while I was there. I don't think any of it did — in fact, I know it did not. By Governor Woodbury: Q. How many army teams had arrived before you left? A. We had, I think, 2."3 teams that arrived on Monday, and then came the Ninth Cavalry with about 2.") more, and then about the time I left other teams arrived from St. Asaphs. from Washington. I don't think there were over 50 or 60 teams when I left. The teams from New York had not arrived. I was not al)le to get any teams there without guaranteeing them sustenance for the men and every- thing of that kind, which I had not. Q. What day in August did you leave there? A. I think I left there the 8th day. Q. How rapidlj' did teams arrive, and at what dates, at Montauk? A. I sent one lot of transportation from here, but how many came in from other regiments I do not know. Q. The testimony before us is almost one way, that there was a great lack of transportation at Montauk Point all the time existing, at least imtil the middle of September. Most all the ills that were alleged to have occurred at Montauk have been attributed to the want of transportation, in that they said they could not get men from hospitals to trains on account of transportation, and the ques- tion is whether that is just testimony or whether the Quartermaster's Deiiartment has some excuse for not furnishing transportation. A. When I left there, we furnished them all the transportation asked for. Colonel Kimball was ordered to get all transportation that was needed— heavy teams. How many were sent up I do not know. Q. Do you know how many teams were sent up from here? A. I do not know. I can find out. Q. I suppose your depot quartermaster would know? A. Yes, sir. By General Dodge: Q. The Quartermaster-General states here in his report that they made arrange- ments for 30,000 men at Montauk. including the sick; 80,000 uniforms and under- clothing, hats, blankets, shoes, etc. He says the records of his office show that all tentage and clothing arrived before the soldiers arrived there. Now, if he made arrangements for taking care of 30 000 men, why didn't you have transpor- 2632 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. tation for 30.000 men taken there at that time? Your department evidently had noticed that they were to take care of 30,000 men, and of course it was impossible to handle that stuff without transportation. Why was not sufficient transporta- tion to take care of 30.000 men there in a fair time? A. I can not answer that question. Q. You were in charge of such transportation? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it not your duty to see that it was done? A. We sent all the transportation from !St. Asaphs that they asked for. Q. There was no one there to ask for it. The troops had not arrived yet. Why did you wait to be asked? A. We pushed in all the transportation we had here at St. Asaphs, and in addi- tion to that w^e hired all this additional transportation and sent it up, the kind of wagons they thought they could use to the best advantage. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you send your transportation on your own motion or in obedience to orders from others; and if so. from whom? A. It was sent on my own motion, upon instructions from the Quartermaster- General. Q. What instructions did you receive to send transportation there? A. No special instructions, except to send what was required and send what we could. The reports I heard was that they had more teams than they could use around the depots. By General Dodge: Q. The reports that we have are that they suffered for the want of transporta- tion. A. I don't think that is so. Q. Did the (juartermaster look to you to supply transportation? A. Yes. sir. Q. So, if it was not supplied, the quartermaster-gene'Val was not in fault, but you were, or somebody else? A. I would be at fault if I had not run up the transportation available here? Q. Was there any transportation available except here? A. No, sir. Q. Did Colonel Kimball receive authority or instructions from you to hire all the transportation he could that was needed at Montauk? A. Yes, sir; in addition to what they had. Q. When you undertook to hire transportation in New York, what difficulties did you experience? A. While 1 was there the (piestion was unless I would guarantee food for the men and care they would not send them up, and if there was a guaranty teams would be sent there. We hadn't any way to provide food for ourselves, except to go 3i miles for it. Q. Couldn't you put up tents and start a camp? A. We did. I made arrangements with a construction company there and they furnished men. I gave them tents and they had arrangements for feeding all their men. Q. How long did it take to get that arrangement going so that you had arrange- ments to feed all the men? A. For feeding these men it took about five days. Q. So that after five days there was no reason why you could not feed any num- ber of men that it was iiecessary to send there? A. Well, all that provision for food belonged to this constructinn company. I did not have any ijrovision to feed men excepting as I hired them there. COL. CKOSBY P. MILLER. 2(>33 Q. You hired teamsters? A. I hired 150 laboring men. Q. Was there any difficulty in feeding your teamsters? A. We had them in a regular camp there, and bought the rations for them after they were settled. Q. You had cooks for them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Could you have distributed these wagons to the different regiments there and let them provide for the teamsters and give each regiment teams there? A. General Young took the teams out of the regiments' hands and left two for each regiment, and he hauled the stores out for these different things. He thought tli,.t a better thing to do. Q. General Young c-omplained on the stand for want of transportation? A. That was the great difficulty for the first week or ten days. By Governor Woodbury: Q. If the Quartermaster's Department was notified that a certain number of troops were to land at Montauk Point was it the duty of that department, of its own motion, without specific orders from the Secretary of War or any one else, to sui)ply that army with tentage, wagons, clothing, etc.? A. Yes, sir. Q. And was it the duty of the Quartermaster's Department to report to the Secretary of War the progress they were making or not, or were they supposed to do that independently, as you say they were independent of any specific instruc- tions, or had tliey to report any deficiency? A. It was their duty, and they did keep the Secretary informed. I was called in by the Seci'etary as soon as I returned. Colonel Hecker went up there as soon as I left, and he reported also. Q. What instructions did the Secretary of War give you in the interviews you had with him? A. None at all. Q. You reported that everything was being done that could be? A. I reported the conditions— the difficulties we had had and what we had accomplished, and he seemed satisfied that everything had been done that could be. By Captain Howell: Q. Did you ascertain the fact that forty ambulances were on the ground that could not be used? A. No, sir; 1 don't think that was true at all. Q. You think they were all able to be used that were there? A. Not all. Q. A good many of them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Wasn't there a large number of horses and mules all the time? A. Y^es. sir. Q. Did you have use for them? A. They never were all in use. Q. How many horses did you have before the army from Santiago arrived? A. That I do not know. Q. Was it as many as 8.000? A. Eight thousand animals? Q. Yes. A. Oh, no. With the Ninth Cavalry there came up all the horses that came with the troops that came and the spare animals that did not go to Santiago, and by that time we had gotten over twenty-five wagons from here. Q. The railroad autiiorities testified that they shipped from New York to the 2634 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. South between 8,000 and 9.000 animals. You don't know that there were that many there? A. You mean those were brought up? Q. Yes. A. They were not there when I was there. Q. You did not see them? A. I know they were not there. Q. I am speaking of all horses and animals carried to Montauk. A. Not while I was there. By General Wilson: Q. Colonel, in the discharge of your official duties in your department were yoii always promptly and thoroughly sustained in your recommendations or were you handicapped by delays on the part of higher authorities? A. I have been delayed in getting decisions made. Q. And the cause of that was what, do you know? A. No, sir. Q. Upon whom did that decision depend? A. In that office it depends upon the Quartermaster-General. Q. The delay, then, for which you don t know the reason was caused by the delay in getting a decision from the Quartermaster-General? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did that often occur, Colonel? A. Well, hardly to the extent of interfering with the prompt discharge and prompt supply. Q. Can you recall any specific instance that you can give us? A. I don't recall any particular one now. Q. Did that delay t-mbarrass or worry you to any extent in the discharge of that portion of the branch of the duties committed to yoiir care? A. To some extent; yes, sir. By General McCooK: Q. Colonel, did you make contracts during the war? Did you make or super- vise contracts? A. Yes, sir. Q. For what? A. For all those supplies that came— why, no; I should not say that— there those contracts were usually made by the Northern officers at the depots ami the various purchasing offices. Purchases are authorized from this office, but the actual making and drawing up of the contract is made by some other olficer at the various points where these purchases are made. Q. Were you ever interfered with by any person superior to you in rank in con- nection with the War Department in the discharge of your duties in regard to these contracts? A. No, sir. By Colonel Sexton: Q. These contracts that were made by other officers, they had fifst to be approved by you? A. Approved by the Quartermaster-General; yes, sir. Q. Did delays occur awaiting approval? A. At times; yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. Everything that you did was known to the Quartermaster-General? A. Yes, sir; always. Q. Everything done by his orders? COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. 2635 A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. In making contracts for wagons, ambulances, and animals and all the sup- plies that came through your office, state whether or not any contract was made at any time at the dictation of any person upon grounds other than those which were for the good of the Government. A. Never. Q. Was there or was there not any influence, so far as you know, at work look- ing to the benefit of a private individual out of any contract that was made under > our supervision or direction? A. Nothing with any contract I ever had anything to do with. By General Dodge: Q. Will you please make any statement you desire to the commission, or any suggestion you have that you think will be of benefit to the service in the future, or upon any matter we have not called upon you to testify about, or any explana- tion you have to make? A. I don't think I have. I would like to look up that question at Montauk Point and make an accurate memorandum. I think I can get at it. Col. C. P. Miller's statevient regarding transportation supplied Montavh Point. At the time Montauk Point was selected as a camp, the 2d of August, the depot at St. AsaphK had been used for the animals, wagons, and horses destined for the Second Army Corps at Camp Alger. The teams, as fast as received and made up, were issued to these troops. St. Louis was the large purchasing depot for mules, and as all troops were to go South, it was not thought best to go to the expense of shipping more wagon trans- portation to St. Asaphs, Va., than would be required for 'the Second Corps. For this reason there were no Government teams available for Montauk when it was selected for a camp except the few not made up into teams and issued to Camp Alger. Captain Parsons was ordered, on August 4, to equip and ship to Montauk as many teams as he could and as quickly as possible. His first shipment was on August 7, 20 teams, and his next on August 10, 25 teams. In considering the time he took to get these teams off it must be remembered that his wagons were received knocked down, to save freight, and had to be put together, and the mules had to lie shod before shipment. On August ,9 Captain Anderson, Sixth Cavalry, arrived with two troops and 2.") six-mule wagons. These were available for general uses on the Uth, after tliey had hauled their stores to their camp. On August 14 Major Ladd, acting chief quartermaster. Second Corps, was directed to ship L^5 wagons and 100 mules to Montauk. At this time there was a train load of mules en route from St. Louis, and as soon as they arrived more teams were forwarded. The Van Aken Company supplied from 25 to 50 wagons about the 15th. Colonel Kimball hired and sent out 02 heavy teams on the 19th. Altogether the table shows 390 wagons, 1,578 mules, and 232 horses, more, it is believed, than could possibly be used considering the limited space about the depot and storehouses at Montauk. Of the ambulances there is no record of the number brought with the troops from Tampa and Lakeland, probably not less than 12, and these, with those sup- plied from points indicated in the table, would make 60. Every available ambu- lance was supplied. 2636 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. The inclosed table with these expLanatory notes are intended as a reply to the following question: "When it is stated in the Quartermaster-Generars report that before a single man had arrived at Montank there was a supply there of clothing and tentage for 30,000 men, why was not transportation supplied for 30,000 men also?" I will state further, in reply to this, that the Department did order every avail- able team to Montauk as rapidly as possible: that it could not order in trauspoita- lion at once for the 30,000 men, because it did not have it available: and finally, I respectfully submit that with the amount supplied there could have been no lack of wagons after the first few days. It is possible that those testifying that there was a short supply were regimental officers, who had the most of their teams taken away from them for general work at the post and were allowed sufficient for camp purposes only. This system for the management of the teams was adopted by General Young, and, while not satisfactory to company commanders, was the only practicable method of making the most of the teams provided. In addition to the wagons mentioned in the table, six water wagons were suii- jilied before any troops arrived and six more later, more, than were used; also, several Dougherty and light spring wagons for the use of the officers. I find, upon consulting the records, that it was decided to use Montauk as a camp on August 2; at least, the Quartermaster-General was notified on that date; that Mr. Smith and Captain Patten left Washington for Montauk on the night of the 2d: and I left on the night of August 4, met General Young at Long Island City August 5, and took a train for Montauk about 11 o'clock a. m. My testimony before the committee that I left Washington on July 2s was an error of one week. Relevring to the testimony that there v,'ere 20 ambulances with broken poles, I will add that in addition to the spare parts that must have been shipped t(i Mon- tauk with the ambulances, under a general order from the Quartermaster- GeneraPs Office to ship a certain proportion of spare parts with all wagons, the following special shipments of ambulance poles were made to Montauk: August 1(>.. 0; Septembers, 10. That they had sufficient is shown by the fact that no ambulances came back from Montauk with broken poles. Transportation shipped to Montauk. Date. 1898. Aug. 38 Sept. -i 4 3 From whence. Governors Island St. Asaphs. St. Asaphs Tampa, with Sixth Cavalry St. Asaphs - do Chiekaraauga Tamii.-i. with Ninth Cavah'y C'amp Alsirer Tauipa, with Third Cavalry Van Akcn Co St. Asaphs do Now York - . - Tampa, with First Cavalry Lakeland, with Tenth Cavalry . St. Asaphs Toledo, Ohio St. Asaphs do do Total. Mules. Horses 4 1.50 CO 101 100 107 318 179 1,578 .50 128 233 Wag- ons. \W, Auihn- lances. Ambnlancrs.—li\ addition to tlie 18 amlnilances noted in this table, there was anumber brought fiuni Tampa and Lakeland with troops. No i-eeord in Quartermaster-General's Office of nuinl)or. COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. 2637 War Department, Quartermaster-Geneual's Office, WushingtoH, Decevilwr 7, ISVS. Gen. Grenville Dodge, Pres'ideii f Iiivestigathirt Cninmiftec. Generai.: In reply to letter of the 5tli instant, recjuesting a statement of the transportation furnished Camp Wikott", the time it was furnished, tlie time it was sent, when received, when issued, and to whom, the inclosed table gives the amount of transportation furnished and dates of shipment and arrival so far as can be ascertained at this office. The remaining dates of arrival at Montauk I am unable to get. Capt. R, W. Dowdy, who had charge of the transportation, could explain when the transportation was issued and to whom. As I understand the methods at Montauk, the larger jmrt of the transportation was organized into trains under one head and sent out as required to hospitals or regiments. I have received telegrams and letters from persons at Montauk who were in a position to know if Maj. I. C. Brown's testimon}' is correct, " that 20 ambulances were in the corral without poles and other parts that were never used and coiild not be used, and that they remained there until within a week or two ot the time he left; that other parts of these ambulances were taken later to put in others: that at no time were they able to obtain from the Quartermaster's Department the number of ambulances required, although requisitions were made again and again for them, and at their general hospital they only had 2.3 ambulances." I respect- fully invite attention to the following statements, written reports, and telegrams from officers and others in better position to know the facts tlian Dr. Brown. Colonel Greenleaf informs me that he was at Montauk Point from September 9 to 23, under orders from the >Secretary of War, to expedite tlie transfer of the sick and convalescents from that camp to hospitals in New York and along the New England coast. That he found an ambulance train fairly well organized for use at the general and detention hospitals and that the Filth Corps also had a supply of ambulances, the same being under the charge of an infantry officer, who was assisted by two medical officers, one Dr. Mohr, in the Fifth Corps, and the other, Dr. Jones, at the unloading dock. The sick were moved nearly every day in de- tachments varying from l.")0 to 250, the movement commencing from 1 o'clock each day. He never heard any complaint regarding lack of ambulances, nor was any statement made to him that there were any ambulances out of reprdr. The ship- ment went along without interruiition and was entirely satisfactory to him. Mr. Clinton Smith, chief constructor, Quartermaster-General's office, informs me by letter: "I was at Montauk from the 4th of August, to the 24th, 1»98, and was usually at the corral from tw(5 to three times a day to see that my teams were out and to give directions about loading. I do not remember seeing more than two or three ambulances at any one time in the corral but what could have been used, and the greater jiortion of them were in use. I think that the tongue of one was broken and some other parts were broken in unloading from the cars, so that there may have been a few that wei*e disabled for a short time until they had time to repair them. As I messed at noon for several days during the latter part of ray stay with Captain Dowdy, who had charge of transportation, I think that I should have been likely to have heard complaint, if there had been any, in regard to ambulances not being issued or in condition to issue. I think there was some trouble with one of the brakes that was put on wrong, and some of the parts of wagons got mixed by inexi)erienced men putting them together at the station, but these were soon righted."' Captain Patten, the assistant to the chief quartermaster at Montauk, the first man on the ground and still on duty closing up the depot wires: " There was at all times plenty of transportation. The hospitals had all they wanted night and day. We had 50 good ambulances, 7 of which were never hitched up, not being 2638 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. called for. No complaint was ever made to me of any lack of transportation. They always had more than they used. Medical stores, commissary stores, and qtiartermastor's stores came on some occasions loaded in same car, but were always handled so as to get at hospital goods promptly, and no delay in delivery was occasioned on this account." Major Knight, chief (xuartermaster. cables: "I never knew of any delay on the part of the Quartermaster's Department in delivering medical supplies. On sev- eral occasions certain named medicines were sent for, and as medicines were billed as so many boxes medical supplies, it necessitated the unloading of one or more cars and the opening of boxes to find the package containing the particular med- icine desired. The delivery of medical supplies of all kinds was given preference over all other stores. Transportation was ample from August 15, and I never knew of a retiuest from the Medical Department for teams to be refused or delayed. On one occasion three or four cars of supplies for four division hospitals arrived at Moniauk in charge of an employee of the Medical Department, who was ins tr acted to divide the supplies in four equal parts. Wagons were promptly fur- nished to haul the supplies, biit they were not made use of for three or four days, as apparently the ofticers in charge did not want to receive them, having no storage there, ov could not agree on distribution. There never were 20 ambulances dis- abled at one time during my stay at Montauk, All repairs were made as promptly as possible, and as cliief (luartermaster I spared no means or effort to meet every demand on the department. In my opinion, the prime cause for delay in the Med- ical Department was due to failure to mark contents of boxes on outside from the very beginning. My desire and idea was to send all medical supplies to the gen- eral hospital as fast as they arrived. The chief surgeon, Colonel Forwood, refused to receive only such as he needed; conse(iuently they were left 'n the cars until wanted. General Williston is a witness to this." Major Sawyer, chief quartermaster after Major Knight was relieved, telegraphs: "I went to Montauk, September 6, in charge of transportation at that point, and left there October 15. During that period no report was made to me by Dr. Brown or any other medical officer that supplies could not be located. Had such report been made to me, any supplies could have been located in not to exceed four hours. If he had not means of transportation for medical supplies, it was because he did not apply for it, for besides three corrals I had 90 teams for just such demand as this, and these 90 wagons could have hauled cots daily from the station to the hospital if application had been made for them. No report was ever made to me that 20 ambulances were disabled. Had there been, they could have been repaired finally. 1 do not remember that the medical officers ever made a request for transportation that was not furnished: and if the reports of Dr. Brown be true, all could have been easily and promptly remedied had he applied or reported them to me." Capt. Marion McMillan, the (luartermaster assigned to duty at the general hospital, who reported to the chief medical officer, personally attending to his con- struction and transportation matters, wires: "No report about broken tongues were made to me by medical oliicers. Will forward my knowledge of the matter. " (See his letter attached.) From J. W. Ridgway, assistant master of transportation at Montauk, Colonel Moore has the following letter: "Hon. Governor Woodbury. "Dear Sir: I take the liberty to write you and ask pardon if I have intruded. I write in regard to a remark you made to Colonel Moore, while before your hon- ored board, as to the ambulances at Montauk, If you \vill allow me, I would say Colonel Moore and Colonel Roosevelt come very near telling the board about COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. 2639 right. We had 50 ambulances at Montauk. Seven of them never had a team hooked to them. There was not a day or a night from August G to November 1 that there ever was a delay or a call for an ambulance, but it was out and at the post in twenty-five minutes, and oftentimes less. We had plenty of ambulances and horses and mules to hook to them. At one time I never allowed the drivers to remove their harness, so as the delay would be but slight when called upon. Tiiey have been out as early as 4 in the morning and as late as 11 at night. I recall one incident: At night, about 11 o'clock, a call came for an ambulance to go to the beach and get the body of General Wheeler's son, who was drowned, and in nineteen minutes from the time the order was given the ambulance was at tiie beach, ready for the body. As to the commissary, there always was enough, as I had the supervision over the hauling of all descriptions, and know. 1 have had teams bring back provisions from the camps, and the answer would be, when I asked the driver why he brought it back, ho would sav: 'They have all they want, and have not time to burn or bury it.' I would report to Captain Duval at the commissary, and he said: ' We issued it to them. If they don t want any more, why, use it to the best advantage.' This not only once, but several times. If this information is of any service to your honored board, I have no objection to it being used. My occupation at Montauk was superintendent of the corral- received all horses, mules, wagons, carriage ambulances that came to the camp, and assisted Capt. R. W. Dowdy, master of transportation, and after he resigned I was made master of transportation, and now hold the position. "Captain McMillan's written report will be submitted when received. On the isth of August a telegram v/as received for certain spare parts for ambulances, viz: Spare wheels, front and hind, i)latform springs, poles, etc. These were ordered at once by wire and this re(iuest was the only one received. It would seem from these reports that this department is not mistaken in its statements that there were sufficient ambulances at all times at Montauk, and that at no time were there a sufficient number broken to prevent the department from meet- ing all calls and having at least seven in the corral ready for further demands. " The statement of Colonel Greenleaf , chief medical officer of the Army, on Gen- eral Miles's staff, is, I believe, of the utmost value, as he was sent to Montauk when the pressure was very great, to take the entire charge of unloading the sick and transporting them to the hospitals. If there had been a lack of ambulances, he would have discovered it. Again, attention is invited to the letter of the corral boss, J. W. Ridgway, who was certainly in position to know the truth. ' ' This office has no means of ascertiiining the truth of statements like Dr. Brown's except from the reports received from our officers and men in charge at Montauk of the matters in (luestion, and I respectfully submit their reports as the best answer to the questions contained in your letter of the oth instant I am able to get. "Very respectfully, "Crosby P. Miller, " Colonel, Quartermaster'' s Department.'''^ '2()40 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH .SPAIN. Tvdnsportatioii shipped to Montmik. Date. From whence. Arrived. Mules. Horses. Wagons. Ambu- lances. 1898. Aug ;{ 8th 8 (i St. Asapbs Jeft'ersoiivillc Depot - 8th 96 20 4 8 St. Asaph.s 10th Jith l;ith 13th 4 150 60 101 1 25 25 !) 10 11 do 13 Chit'kamauga 9 Taiupa, with Ninth Cavalry 13th 17th I'tth I'M 100 107 25 20 25 25 24 62 44 36 44 It Camp Alfjer Tampa, with Thii-d Cavalry Van Akeu Co - - 7 15 50 16 St. Asaphs 18th 20th 6(t 97 18 do . . . 19 New York . . . 126 286 218 179 28 30th Sept. 3 Toledo, Ohio 5 6th 5th 18 3 do 15 7 do 36 Total 1,578 ;232 396 48 Axdnilances. — In addition to the 48 ambulances noted in this table, there was a number brought from Tampa and Lakeland with troops. No record in Quartermaster-General's Office of number. Six Dougherties and one buckboard supplied for officers' use. Washington, D. C, December 10, ISOS. The Quartermaster-General U. S. Army, WdHhington, D. C. Sir: My attention has been called to certain statendtents of Maj. Ira C. Brown, surgeon. United States Volunteers, made before the inve.stigation committee rela- tive to the ambulance service at Camp Wikoff , Montauk Point, Long Island. I can not think that you feel you have anything to fear in the most searching investigation, but that such erroneous testimony should go uncontradicted is neither just to you, the commissioners, nor the country. I can hardly think that Major Brown knowingly testified falsely, but that some of his statements are wrong I can honestly assert, and many wagon masters and scores of teamsters can do likewise. His statements have done you and the officers who represented you at Camp Wikoff a great wrong. In hopes that this wrong maj' be corrected, I submit the following statement, which I trust you can lay before the committee: I heard few complaints about ambulances. The ambulances were in my charge and were held subject to the orders of the chief surgeon or those to whom he del- egated the authority. Any complaints as to the lack oi ambulances or their service would certainly have come to me. I never heard any, except as hereafter stated. I have no records by nie, and speak from memory. At first the ambulance train numbered 10 to 15. The surgeons wanted more, and the number was increased every few days, until about the 23d of August there were some 27 in service. About the 1st of September 1.5 more were received, and some time later 8 more, making a total of 50. Some of these were never used, because they were not called for There was but little damage to ambulances, except in the way of broken tongues. We had spare tongues, and the broken would be replaced at once, except for a short time when the spare tongues had been used up. Knowing that it would take some time to get tongues from the manufacturers, lumber was ordered from COL. CROSBY P. MILLER. 2641 New York and tongues were made by the wheelwrights. At no time was there ever more than a half a dozen ambulances disabled. The only real complaint I heard in regard to ambulances was in the transferring of the sick from the regiments to the hospitals, and I believe there was ground for this complaint, but it can not be laid at the door of the Quartermaster "s Depart- ment, for the hospital did not send for the ambulances. During all the camp if there was any order on the corral for an ambulance which was not filled I never heard of it. From about the l.th of August till about the ^oth it was my duty to turn the wagons out for work and to keep them in order. After that I was also charged with their distribution. Before this latter date I can not state as to the use of the wagons, but after that 1 know that the hospitals were always first considered. Every morning the surgeon in charge of hospital supplies would come to the point where all teams were assembled and tell me how many teams he wanted. Generally I turned t)ver to him all he asked for. Some days, when hard pressed, I would ask him if he c luld do with less. If he said ''Yes," a less number would be turned over; if he said -' No," then he got the full amount. This surgeon was Dr. Winter, and he impressed nie as one of the most efficient medical officers with whom 1 came in contact. Very many days 1 said, '-I can give you more teams this morning if you can handle them." Sometimes he would take them and sometimes not. These statements I am sure Dr. Winter will con- firm. In submitting this statement I would like to add the following: In this investigation I have no chestnuts to pull out of the fire. I am wholly disinterested, save as a citizen of the country, and as such I wish to say that instead of censure the country should bestow praise on Camp Wikotf . The records of your office will show that an enormous amount of supplies for your department were sent there without requests, in anticipation of the needs; and often when supplies were urgently needed they were sent by express. When the conditions confronted and the work accomplished are considered, I can but think no censure can rest. I am, sir, your obedient servant, R. W. Dowdy, Captain, United States Armij, Retired. Headquarters First Cavalry Brigade, HunlsviUe, Ala., Decembei^ S, 1S9S. The Quartermaster-General. Wa.sliiiigton. D. C. Sii; : I have the honor to report my knowledge on the matters referred to in your telegram of the Cth instant. Cars with cots in them were brought up where they could be unloaded as quickly as room could be made for them. On account of the great rush for wagons it was at times very hard to procure the necessary transpor- tation, but almost invariably the cots could be delivered at the general hospital the next day. The congestion of the railroad had more to do v/ith the slowness in roceivingcots than the lack of transportation, although at times it was very difficult to procure wagons. Several times the chief surgeon told me that the hospital was .-.liort of cots, and retjuested that I proem e them if possible. In each of these cases the cots were delivered within a couple of days if any cots were in quartermaster's depot. That is the only report rei-eived on the matter from medical officers. In regard to ambulances, I never heard of there being 20 ambulances useless on account of broken tongues, nor were there during the busy season as many as 40 connected with the main corral. There were at first 11 ambulances, 3 of which were detailed permanently to the general hospital and 1 to the detention hospital; the -other 7 were sent to the docks to unload transport.s. Upon receipt of more 7833— VOL. 6 16 2642 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH HI'AIN. ambulances 1 was sent to the general hospital and the othei* 8 sent to the docks. Later on there were 5 aiubnlances in the general hospital corral, but never mor'\ There were 21 ambulances at Camp Wikoff beside the regulation ambulances when I left on sick leave on September 3, all of which were in good condition. While I was away, from September 3 to September IT, more ambulances were joined to the corral. About the last week in September and on into October there were many ambulances lying idle simply because there was no work for them to do. Very respectfully, Marion McMillan, Captain and Assistant Quartei'niaater, U. S. \ olniiteers. Washington, D. C, December ^. 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF COL. WILLIAM S. PATTEN. Col. William S. Patten, upon request, appeared before the commission, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Colonel, will you kindly give us your lull name and rank and department you arfi in? A. William S. Patten; present rank, colonel; Quartermasters Department. Q. Have you charge of any bureau in the Quartermaster s Department; and if so, what one? A. I have charge of the supply of clothing and equipage. Q. What is included under the term eiiuipage? A. Tentage and minor things, as picks and shovels and spades. They are not alo)ie supplied by that division; they are supplied also by our general supply divi- sion, but only such as pertain around the camp — camp kettles, mess pans, etc. Q. Stoves? A. Only tent stoves. Q. What articles embraced under the term "equipage" in the Quartermasters Department are supplied also by the Ordnance Department, if any? A. I don't know whether you call them e(juip:ige or not, but the cooking kit of the individual soldier and a knife, fork, spoon, and plate were used in field service. You might call that equipage. Q. Well, are the ovens included in your department? A. No, sir. They belong to what is termed the regular supplies. Q. What supply of tents were on hand at the time of declaration of war with Spain? A. That has been submitted to the board here in a tabulated statement which I prepared, but I could not recall the amount. It would be what is called a reason- able reserve for the forces in service. Q. Did you prepare answers. Colonel, to questions 5 and (> propounded by the commission to the Quartermaster's Department? A. I took part in the preparation of those two questions. I do not know the exact Q. One is as to the steps taken to supply an army of 250,000 men. A. Yes, sir. Q. The facts stated in those answers are correct to the best of your knowledge and belief? A. To the best of my knowledge and belief, absolutely so. Q. Are you in your department prepared now to supply all the requisitions that COL. WILLIAM S. PATTEN. 2G43 may be made upon you by the Army in the field for whatever is necessary for their use in the way of tentage and supplies? A. So far as we can foresee, yes, sir. It is a constantly changing situation. Q. Is the quality of the duck now used in the tents standard army duck? A. So far as we can control it. No contracts have been made for some time except for United States standard duck. Q, But the manufacturers of the country are able now to meet your demands for the standard (quality, are they? A. Yes, sir; they are. provided we don't call for them all at once; but they can now put out sufficient duck to meet the requisitions of the Army with the standard quality. Q. Did you have, during the emergency, any difficulty in supplying the Army with mess pans, camp kettles, etc.? A. No, sir; there was never a shortage of those things. They could be obtained in an unlimited (luantity. Q. Were there any requisitions unsatisfied, so far as you know, for any time for supplies of that character? A. No, sir; never knew of any. Q. Are the contracts for your own supplies made under your personal supervision? A. Yes, sir. The bids are opened at the depots; they are there abstracted and forwarded with the recommendation of the depot office. They come to my desk, and I go over them and I submit them to the Quartermaster-General with my recommendation, and his action is final. Q. What length of time is consumed in that routine of submission and approval, ordinarily? A. There need not be twenty-four hours. Q. As a matter of fact, how much was there? A. That varies greatly. I have taken an abstract in, and the Department has acted on it over the telephone where we felt very much jjressed. Q. Were the contracts in your department or in your bureau of the department. Colonel, made upon competitive bids in all cases? A. There has been rarely an exception this summer where our awards have not been after advertisement, and these exceptions were to meet emergencies; but we have followed it to the extreme, advertising and awarding on the competitive basis. Q. Do you know of any case in which a contract has been allowed to any other than the lowest responsible bidder? A. Not a case. There has never been a case in my department. Q. Do you know of any other instance, outside of your department, which dictated the letting of a contract other than the best for the interest of the Gov- ernment? A. There has never been an opening of a contract, hardly, that might not be flooded with Tom. Dick, and Harry looking out for their constituents, etc. Q. The effect of it was quite another thing? A. This town is full of attorneys, who presumably make their living in that sort of thing. The evidence is in the papers that can be laid open to anybody and they can take the figures, I even satisfied the New York World. Q. It is in view of a formal communication addressed to us that I ask you these questions, and in view of our failure to get any testimony from anyone else; so we have been trying to get the facts from the quartermasters— yourself . A. They consulted me on that overcoat award, and I handed them the papers, and they have nothing more to say. Q. Have you any knowledge of a contract for hats— for the army hats? A. There are a great many contracts we have had this summer. We have bought, I suppose, 300,000 or more, after advertising contracts with a number of different parties. 2644 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH BPAIN. ' Q. Do you know where the hats were manufactured? A. Only by the names of the manufacturer.s. We could not determine that, but they have been mostly purchased in Philadelphia, where we have our best system of inspection. Q. Mr. Knox, of New York, called upon us while we were in New York and made some comphiint of a contract that was let in Philadelphia, which he alleged was let irrespective of the quality of the hat. Do you know the particular con- tract to which he alluded? Have you had any correspondence with him? A. I have had Mr. Knox's story from him direct on several occasions. By Captain Howell: Q. I think he complained more about his samples? A. His complaint was because his hats were not accepted. Q. I thought he had waived that, but said he did not get back the samples which he submitted. By General Dodge: Q. He complained that his samples were better than others. A. Mr. Knox claimed that his hats were unjustly rejected by the Philadelphia depot: that they were better than those accepted. Q. Do you know anything in regard to them? A. 1 investigated the matter as well as I could, and the result was unfavorable to him, and he not being satisfied with that, I suggested to the Quartermaster- General that he place it in the hantls of an officer, and he placed it in the hands of Colonel Moore, of our department, and he spent some two weeks in going to the bottom of it, and he reported that the hats were very justly rejected. Mr. Knox repeatedly made charges of irregularity of the depot: said he could not get his hats in because he would not do this and that, but he failed to offer a single iota of proof of it. By General Beaver: Q. He said that he asked that a secret-service officer be detailed to investigate it? A. He asked that repeatedly, liut he never had anything to investigate. Q. Was it demonstrated that there was any fraud? A. That is what he complained of. He never gave any instance where an investigation could be made. There was nothing whatever except the mere fact that the Knox hat was rejected. Q. You investigated it and reached the same conclusion which Colonel Moore subsecjuently reached. A. Yes, sir; only he put much more time than I had an opportunity of doing on it. Q. Do you know what the difference in the bids was— the bid rejected and the one accepted? A. In that particular letting I can not recall it; but there was not much differ- ence. Q. It rested on the question of quality more than price? A. We have a standard, and only re(iuested hats to be furnished equal to that standard. The inspector rejects everything not up to it. By Captain Howell: Q. Were his hats rejected on account of quality? A. Yes, sir. General Dodge. One complaint he made was that he could not obtain his sam- ples or papers. By General Beaver: Q. He said, " I respectfully ask that the board return my documents, etc., from General Ludington , and upon their receipt by me a day be appointed on which COL. WILLIAM S. PATTEN. 2645 I can appear before yotir boavcl and state that I firmly believe the quartermaster's department iu Philadelphia to be rotten and corrupt." A. That is the part that interested me. Q. Do you know anything; about the documents? A. Yes, sir. They were turned over and left on my desk. They were the papers, with his old samples and new samples, which were turned over to Colonel Moore, who made this investigation and report. Immediately ui)on making his report Colonel Moore went to San Francisco on a very hurried trip to attend to personal business, and then Knox called for his papers and his samiiles, and he was so informed and that steps were being taken to weed out the papers the best we could. We had the samples. The samples expressed from Philadelphia are now over there, and Colonel Moore is now trying to get the papers. Q. The colonel has returned now? A. Yes. sir. Q. Have you any knowledge of the issue of hospital tents to Chickamauga? A. To Chickamauga? I know that all the tents were issued after the camj) was established. Q. How many hospital tents were sent to Chickamauga? Will you please look at that statement and see whether it correctly states the shipments made to Chick- amauga and states the dates correctly? [Paper handed to witness.] A. Yes. sir: I recognize that. Q. Have you any knowledge of the date of transportation? A. They were received frequently. When there was an ejnergency we directed that they be sent by rail, (Witness here filed a copy of the statement, showing the quantity of tentage ordered to Camp Thomas, dates, and, as far as can be ascertained from the Quar- termaster-General's Office, the dates on which shipments were made, which was marked "Exhibit W. S. P., No. 1, December 2, 1S98.") The Witness. The time between the receipt of the order and the receipt of tents, if telegraph is used, might amount to a great deal if they needed them badly. Q. The total number of hospital tents shipped to Chickamauga, as appears by this statement, was 7 oo? A. Yes, sir: hospital tents. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Where were those hospital tents mostly shipped from? A. Mostly Baltimore, and some from Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and St. Louis; they furuished the most of our tents. These separate shipments show calls, either from the camp or the Surgeon-General's Office, to ship in those amounts. By General Dodge: Q. Were there any reqiiisitions made iipon you for hospital tents that you could not immediately till? A. There was never a call made, that was approved by the Surgeon-General, that was not shipped immediately. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you have calls that were not approved by the Surgeon-General? A. There have been instances — one from Santiago for 1,000. He said 500 would be more than he could use, and I sent 500. That is why I said, "Approved by the Surgeon-General. " By General Wilson: Q. Colonel, in the discharge of the oificial duties assigned you, which, as I understand, is the department pertaining to camp and garrison equipage and clothing, was your action in every individual case approved by the Quartermaster- 2646 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. General and your superiors, or were you handicapped in any way by delay on the part of your superiors in acting on your papers'? A. In my position as assistant and adviser I can hardly claim to have been handi- capped, but my recommendations were not always accepted by my superiors. My superior is a very painstaking man. My recommendations were not always approved. Otherwise I can not see any occasion for ray recommending. Why shouldn't I act? Q. Was there any delay in the issue of materials in your department upon any request, based upon the action of your superiors in not approving your recom- mendations? A. Well, possibly. Q. Can you recall any individual instance? A. No, sir; not individual. It would take more explanation than a mere answer to the question to put that clearly. Q. The disapproval of your recommendations, was that in the case of the award of contracts? A. Generally, where it has occurred, it was not in the amount. Q. Not in the price, but as to quantities? A. As to quantities. Q. Was your recommendation for a larger quantity than approved or smaller? A. Where there has been any difference of opinion it was less. Q. That is, your recommendations have been lowered? A. Yes, sir. Q. There has been more complaint made as to your department. We are dig- ging simply for facts; that is all. A. If conditions had been a little different than they have turned out. my rec- ommendations might have been very wrong. Q. You feel satisfied that the disapproval was to the advantage of the Govern- ment? A. The motive was at the time. Q. Was there any delay due to nonaction in regard to your recommendations that embraced the Department in auy way? A. I do not know of any instance now. Q. Now, Colonel, I would be glad to hear anything you want to add. A. No, sir. Q. You spoke A. Of course the situation then was a very trying one to the department. All responsibility rested on the Quartermaster-General, not on me; and naturally he might be more conservative in having that responsibility. Q. You were perfectly satisfied with the results in your official position in charge of that division? A. I do not know that any of us were satisfied. We could have done it a little better. By General Beaver: Q. Colonel, looking at it from what you know now, was your recommendation right or wrong? A. Looking at it from what I know now, we could not have piled in any too much stuff. By General McCook: Q. Who was the manufacturer of this canvas in Baltimore: have they more than one mill? A. The Woodbury and Mount Vernon. You probably get as fine duck from the Mount Vernon as anybody. Then there are some other makers. COL. WILLIAM S. PATTEN. 2647 By General Wilson: Q. Colonel, in regard to the canvas that was first issued for the tents, perhaps you can give us some information as to why that was not equal to the standard quality? A. We bought all the tents we possibly could get hold of. It was simply to get the tents the best we could. The instructions were to get as near the standard as possible. The few mills could not produce them. Q. When did you commence to get the stantlard ciualities— as the manufacture was sufficiently advanced? A. I do not think we had any trouble since Q. After the middle of July? A. No. Even the best duck does not stand in that Southern country more than three or four months. You can put your fingers through it at the end of that time. Q. You liave sufficient camp and garrison equipage now for an army of 250,000 men to go into the field at once? A. Outside of what they have? Q. Including what they have in use in good order. A. Yes; I think so. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Can any means be taken with any other canvas in preparing the standard canvas or getting any other canvas to stand that Southern climate? A. I do not believe there is anything in the way of canvas. We are trying now diff(3rent grades. We are trying a twill which will be an excellent one. Q. Trying any sizing? A. We are trying not to use any sizing. The more sizing, the quicker the mildew. C^. There is nothing to prevent the mildew? A. We have never discovered anything. By Captain Howell: Q. Has not that been the trouble down there about sizing? A. Unquestionably. By General Dodge: Q. We have had a great deal of complaint in the difficulty of obtaining clothing for the soldiers. Will you tell us with what rapidity you furnished this and what your difficulties have been in not furnishing it? A. When the first call came, I had not arrived at the office. The troops were mustered in everywhere and, I understand, upon an order from the War Depart- ment they piled their requisitions in. There was such a mess, I do not think it was ever acted upon at the location. When I arrived there, the 15th of May, they were concentrating troops into these camps. The only thing that could be done was to ship clothing in bulk to the various camps, and I often started sheets, which I kept on my table all the time, judging of the amount of men to be con- centrated in the camp, and as fast as articles were available shipped them in bulk to those camps, guessing what might be wanted, as troops were being rushed into these camps, trusting that they might be needed there: and I knew of every ship- ment made from the beginning to the end in that way, and supposed at Tampa they were being well outfitted and was surprised to learn later on of the railroad congestion and that the supplies had not been utilized there for weeks. Q. They were in the cars? A. In the cars. Chickamauga was served the same as other camps. It depended on them to distribute the clothing. This sheet shows [witness reading from 2648 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. paper] there were 41,000 blankets shipped into Chickamanga: there were 61,500 blouses shipped. That is a blonse for every man that was there, and a great per- centage was supposed to go equipped; and so the list goes on. Shoes, 109,912 pairs at Chickaiuauga. Q. I do not recall any testimony that they did not have these things there, but that they could not get them because the sizes were not what they required. A. The sizes were always assorted, according to what we have found in twenty- five years meets the regular demand. We found that the volunteers did use a smaller run of sizes, and we reduced the schedule on everything very much, but even then, in this and that, certain sizes accumulated; and then they called for special sizes, and we sent them at once. Q, That depends on locality, sometimes? A. Yes, sir. The Western men are large men. and the Southern men are very small. Q. We found, in adjoining camps, one regiment complaining that they could not get enough small sizes, and another could not get large enough. A. I had complaints from regiments at Tampa that they could not get coats big enough, and everybody else complained that they could not get tliem small enough. Q. What is the ciuality? A. The Army standard is probably the liest shoe that can be made. When this riish c^ihe on we bought 118,000 shoes in the open market, the best we could find. Many of them were very unsatisfactory— for instance, as to shape — because it just takes so long so produce a shoe, cut it oiTt, make it and dry it, and if you get it inside of a month yon have a rush shoe. Q. So the poor quality of shoes were those you purchased in the beginning? Are you able now to furnish the standard shoe? A. Yes, sir; and have been for a long time. Then, again, all of those shoes were bought at the point of muster. I have had a report of 1,200 men mustered in this morning barefooted, and they were authorized to buy the best shoes they could get right there. You could not relieve them if you had them in the storehouse here. Q. What system did you follow for furnishing the troops with suitable clothing for the climate? A. That has been a very difficult proposition, because they would not stay in one place long enough. I don't think the (Question of what is suitable for the troops has yet been determined. The first thing I did was to reduce the weight of trousers from 22 to 10 ounces, and took the lining out of the blouses, and that was done in May, and we furnished them light underwear: later on canvas suits were furnished. The question as to the desiralnlity of these suits is not determined yet. Q. By the canvas suit do you mean the khaki suit? A. It was called khaki ; it was a light-weight canvas. There is no such thing as khaki in this country. It is obtainable now, ])ut was not then. Q. What kind of clothing are you furnishing the troops going now? A. Light-weight underwear, unlined blouses, and light-weight trousers, and we are about to have a quantity of khaki suits. Its desirability is yet to be deter- mined. Some think the unlined blouse is preferable to the close cotton garment. By General Beaver: Q. Is the outside shirt a woolen shirt? A. Yes, sir. We have just reduced the weight of that now. Q. Have you had any consultation with the medical officers as to what is best to wear next to the skin? A. Freciuently. Q. What is the general consensus of opinion on that subject — that woolen is the best? COL, WILLIAM S. PATTEN. 2649 A. It varies with about everyone you talk with. Q. Does not the Medical Department agree upon it? A. No, sir. I individually would advocate a light woolen undershirt for all conditions, but everyone does not agree with me. By General Dodge: Q. What, in your opinion, so far, is the best suit for the Cuban campaign, for instance? A. Well, I think a light cotton suit, something on the khaki order, providefl a light woolen undershirt is worn with it; and again, an admirable suit is the can- vas or cotton trousers and blue flannel shirt. General Lee's corps wore them in Jacksonville all summer and found them very satisfactory. Q. That is, without a blouse? A. Without a blouse. By General Wilson: Q. Were you able to obtain this light-weight goods, to which you refer, in time for General Shafter's army, when it went to Santiago? A. They were shipped over there about the time he went. They were not made use of until after the fight, I understand. Q. Then they did have them after the fight? A. They were there. They came home with them. (^. Were they used by the troo^is that went to Porto Rico? A. Yes: supplied them there with them, or sent on the ships at the same time. By General Dodge: Q. We have seen some statements here of the troops going, now that they are arriving in Cuba, with heavy garments. A. They are arriving there with unlined blouses and light-weight trousers and underwear. Q. Have you heard any complaints from those troops? A. No, sir: not a word. It is the purpose to put these light cotton uniforms down there shortly, shortly before warm weather comes. Q. What would be the color of them? A. Khaki. The word khaki gives it the color, which is a yellowish brown. By (xeneral McCook: Q. Khaki means the color and not the material? A. Yes, sir. In the English service they have used it twenty years, and in India. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What time did the Quartermaster- General's Department advertise for bids for clothing or purchase clothing in anticipation of the wants of the new army that was to be put into the field; when did it commence? A. I could not give the date, because it was just prior to my Q. Was it before the declaration of war or afterwards? A. I do not know. Q. Could that be ascertained? A. Yes, sir. The first instructions to advertise is a matter of record. Q. So it happened after you went there? A. Before I went there. Q. Did I understand you to say that you shipped sufficient clothing to Chicka- mauga. so that the troops could obtain upon reciuisition all that they reed back a great number. I heard there were some there suffering for the want of blankets, so I shipped 10,000 on the 2Gthof August. There were about 20,000 under-garments, shirts, drawers, and stockings, deeming it a proper outfit for 20,000 men. There were 20,000 blouses and 20,000 trousers. Q. How many blankets were there? A. Thirty thousand. We carted away a great many afterwards. It is verj' easy for a soldier to get up sympathy for the want of a blanket; but when he finds that he is to have it charged up against him on the clothing account it is another thing, and they would not draw these things for that reason. Q. It was to the interest of every soldier to get everything he could from sympa- thetic women rather than from the Quartermaster's Department? A. Yes, sir. He had to pay practically for everything he drew from the Quar- termaster's Department— that is. if he had not drawn the garment he would have gotten the money. The same condition existed as to tentage. Q. Did the (jiiartermaster have inspectors at the manufactories of clothing and tents? A. We employed inspectors on everything that we purchased. We had a great many inspectors. We didn't allow any contract without an inspector right at the work. Q. Have you any complaints from the new (-amps — Huntsville, Anniston. Lex- ingtfm, and Knoxville — in relation to tlie want of clothing at those camps? A. Nothing in the light of complaints. We have had urgent calls from them in every instance. By Captain Howell: Q. You liave found a great many who admit that they have received their winter underclothes. Have they been furnished with all the blankets that they needed? A. There was no trouble about blankets. Q. Overcoats? A. Overcoats were shipped very early to all the camps. By General Dodge: Q. We had complaints from one or two stations — one was Lexington: another was Huntsville — that when they would send a request for certain sizes, they sent them large numbers of other sizes, so that the reason soldiers were out was because they did not have the sizes they wanted. You made the statement that there were not small sizes enough. Has any complaint been made of the goods you furnished? A. Yes. sir. Q. Who by? A. By any people. I guess there is something bad in every class of garment. Q. By officers? A. Yes. sii'. Q. By men? A. We did not get at the men. 2652 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. What has been the character of those complaints? A. In one of the companies a number of shoes might give out. That will hap- pen to the best shoemaker in the United States. The only thing you can do is to replace them. Q. How as to the trousers? A. We have had complaints of defective trousers. Q. Made by officers? A. It would have to come to us through officers. Q. By the commanding olficer of the regiment? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have these complaints been general? A. No, sir. Q. Have they related to specific cases? A. Specific cases: and whenever thej^ came to our notice they have received attention. Q. How do you account for these deficiencies? A. Sometimes they are not well founded; but where they are, they are the nat- ural defects which will occur in a large amount of any article. By Colonel Sexton: Q. You purchased goods which were not the standard? A. Yes, sir. We had to do that to get them. By Colonel Denby: Q. Well, these cases were not attributable to design, fraud, or corruption of any kind? A. No, sir. Q. You have had no shoddy? A. None that we were aware of. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Colonel, we noticed at Lexington a number of new tents condemned. Were those the ones that were purchased early? A. I could not say as to that particular case. Wherever we can get hold of a case like that we investigate it to find out what the trouble is. By Colonel Denby : Q. Were those goods returned to you? A. Wherever we could get hold of them. Q. Did you receive them in any quantity? A. No, sir. Q. Then you resupplied good ones? A. Yes, sir; and where it was promptly reported to us we returned them to the contractor. Q. It has been in your experience where making great purchases of quantities some things would be defective? A. Yes. sir. Q. That can not be avoided? A. Yes. sir; some trousers might pass an inspection that were not sewed iip rightly, and as to shoes, if you pay $8 a pair for shoes, if you get a large quantity, some of them will be defective. Q. What do yoii pay for shoes? A. Our contract price for shoes is about $2.25. That calls for tlie best shoe that can be made? By Governor Woodbury: Q. Do I understand where a shoe is early found defective on account of manu- COL. WILLIAM S. PATTEN. 2653 facture or on account of leather that you issue another jjah- to the soldier without cost to him? A. Immediately; and we would have no trouble whatever in the contractor taking back that shoe. Q. Is that so with other articles of clothing? A. Yes, sir. By Captain Howell: (^. How is that defect ascertained? Is there a report to be made by officers as to whether it is defective? A. No, sir: we do not care for that — just have the men simply send the shoe. It may be due to a soft spot in the leather. Q. That comes out of the contractor? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you get many? A. No, sir: but we did get some. By Colonel Sexton: Q. You didn't get any from volunteers? A. They even got on to it. By Captain Howell: Q. Suppose a soldier in Havana was to have a pair of shoes that were defective, as you say, what would be his duty to get a pair of shoes that woukl not be charged lip to him? A. An officer of his regiment should go immediately to the quartermaster and ask for another pair. Q. And the Government does that? A. Yes, sir: and it is no expense to the Government if it is promptly done. Q. That same rule applies to defective clothing? A. In g,Dy issue by the Government that is defective — that is not what it is rep- resented to be. We find a majority of the shoes returned — one man wrote and complained aboiit his shoe torn out on the toe, and he said it was usually the left toe, and I sent for some shoes, and in many instances they were burned. They were not used to camp fires. He didn't burn them out immediately so that he noticed it, but kept at it, getting his shoes too near the tire, and in three days it was so burned that it broke. By General Weaver: Q. In the purchase of tents, when you purchased without regard to ciuality, did you have them inspected in every instance and marked by the inspector? A. Tliat was the intention — that they were always inspected. Q. In Jacksonville especially we found a variegated assortment — green, purple, and blue shirts — just adjoining each other; was that owing to the urgency of the case? A . Owing to the early imrchase, where we did not get a fabric with our require- ment of indigo dye, which is very difficult to get, and it seems to be the only thing that will stand the weather, although we have a great deal of opposition in the trade on that score. Q. Is it difficult to determine in advance, where you don"t have indigo dye, whether the color will change or not? A. If we don't get indigo dye we have no test to determine whether it is a good or poor dye. That is one of the strongest arguments to the trade to hold onto indigo dye. By General Dodge: Q. That goes into the overcoat, too? 2654 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Sexton: Q. It is no trouble to discover that? A. Yes. sir. Q. How— acids? A. You can not rely on that; they have gotten up to that. We have to boil it. By General Dodge: Q. Will you please make any other statement to the commission or any sugges- tion you have which you think will be of benefit to the service or give us any information which we have not drawn out from you that you think will be of interest to us? A. 1 do not think of anything, Greneral, that I can state. By General MoCook: Q. You made no contracts yourself? A. No, sir. Exhibit W. S. P., No. 1.— December 3, 1898. Statement Hhoiving quantities of tentage ordered to Camp Thomas, Ga., dates, and, as far as can he ascertained from the records of the Quarterviaster-GeneraVs Office, the dates on ivhich shipments ivere made. Date of order by tele- graph. April 27... - April 30-... May 9 May 15 Mayir May 33 May 34 May 27 May 29 May;30,31*. Jimo 1 Juiie2- Juiie(>- Juno8 .luiiolS Juno 16 .. Juno 17 JunG20 June22 Juno 30 July 4 Ju'y7- July 12 Julvie July 19 July 24 July 2!) August 3... August 4... August 5-. August 7 - . . August 8 . - . August 9 -. August 11 . . August 34. . Total. Date of ship- ment. May 18-21 May 25 - . . May 38. ... Junel do do June 4^7... June 7, 8, 9. June 17. June 18- July I.- July 5 . - Jlily8.- July 16 . do .. .Iuly3.5.26. July 30--.. Aug. 4 Aug. 5 Aug. 6 Aug. 12..., Aug. 9.. AugVsS." Com- mon. 635 50 1,029 ;iS7 34 55 500 119 1,039 'i'm 50 400 600 Conical. Hospital. .500 500 380 500 400 400 "400' 400 9,768 200 80 150 432 30 35 25 153 Shelter. 25 5,000 3,300 7,300 10,000 400 10,000 10,000 13,000 30 40 100 25 100 50 753 15,000 73,925 Wall. 50 75 348 51 140 .52 135 1,049 1,140 Irregu- lar. 84 * Record only of partial shipment CAPT. JAMES M. m'KAY. 2655 Washington, D. C, December £, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF CAPT. JAMES M. McKAY. Ctipt. James M. McKay then appeared before the commission, and the presi- dent thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was therenpon duly sworn by the recorder of the commission. By General Beaver: Q. Will you kindly give us your name and rank, and residence? A. James M. McKay; civilian; my residence is Tampa, Fla. Q. Did you have any position in the Ai-niy at any time; and if so, what? A. I was assistant to Colonel HiTm^jhrey, who was chief- quartermaster of General Shaffer's expedition in charge of ocean transportation, giving out and loading and discharging transports, both at Tampa and on the Cuban coast. Q. Were you his assistant simply as employee or an officer? A. I was his civilian emijloyee. Q. What is your business? A. Well. I am a shipmaster. I have been trading on the coast of Cuba, between Florida and Cuba in the coast trade since 1876, when I was appointed captain on the Plant Steamship Line, commanding one of their boats for eight years. On the 1st (^f September, 1894, I was appointed by President Cleveland as United States marshal for the east district of Florida, from Fernandina to Key West. I was relieved from that jiosition on March 9, 1898. Q. When did you come into the Government employ as Colonel Humi^hrey's assistant? A. I reported to General Shafter and Colonel Humphrey on May 4, 1898. Q. And continued how long? A. Until the 30th of August, 1898, with the exception of ten days that I was away from the expedition. Q. To what extent did you have charge of the loading of transports at Port Tampa? A. Well. I had the superintending of the loading of stores — of the commissary stores, quartermaster stores, wagons, mules, and artillery, Q. In general, how were those stores loaded? Did each transport go with a certain number of rations — complete rations — or did you put the bacon in one ship and the hard-tack in another, and the beef in another, etc.? A. Nearly every ship was loaded with the complete rations. I have all that data at home; not thinking T was coming before the commission, I left it there. Q. You had a certain number of complete rations on every ship? A. Yes, sir; some of them had 100,000 rations aboard, and some had more. Q. Were you familiar with the capacity of the ships that were loaded there with supplies and troops? A. Yes, sir. Q. Both as to the tentage and as to the capacity for comfortably caring for the men? A. Yes, sir. Q. As to the men, who went aboard, were the ships overloaded or did they have about what they could comfortably carry, having the health of the men especially in view? A. The most of the ships had what they could comfortably carry, but I think there were five that were a little overcrowded and a nuinber were taken off and put on others that were not crowded. That was before we left Port Tampa. 2656 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. St) tliat when you left Port Tampa, the ships were, in your judgment, simply loaded as they should have been without being overloaded? A. That is my impression. Q. How long were they aboard before they sailed? A. Well, we loaded them up, and were to have sailed on the 7th. In fact, part of the ships had been started from Port Tamjja and were down the bay 30 miles and took their position, as they were to be convoyed by the navy. That night there came an order from Washington, I think, calling those ships back, and I was ordered to put all of the ships that we could possibly get into the canal, so that the men could stop there if it was necessary to do so. I got in about nine- teen ships out of the lot. After a while the officers in command complained that the ships were too close together. The ships in the middle (they were piit in three tier deep) — in the middle ships the troops were not getting siifficient air. General Shafter then ordered me to open them as much as I could. It was a canal with an embankment on each side. This canal was 200 feet wide, and ships were on the average 40 feet beam. We separated them, so as to get all the air possible into the troops; so then the next morning the general ordered us to take them out of there and anchor them out. They laid there with the troops aboard until the 14th. and we sailed on the morning of the 14th. Q. By taking them out of the canal, it was simply for the men to go ashore and get exercise and air? A. Yes, sir; we had a steamer that would carry 200 men — the Cumberland; and I suggested to Colonel Humphrey to let her make trips along the fleet every two hours, and let all go ashore that wanted to. I have seen, I guess, as high as 300 men aboard, and she made these trips every two hours from early in the morning until dark. Q. If the ships had been left in the canal, would it have been possible for the troops to go ashore with more celerity and convenience? A. Yes, sir; they could have gotten ashore without much trouble, but there was no place to stop anywhere, except on the vessels. They had no covering. Q. I mean simply for the sake of exercise? A. Yes; but at nighttime, when they had to sleep aboard those vessels, it was suffocating. They could not stand it. It was extremely hot weather. The ships were put out to make it more comfortable for the nien. Q. What was the effect of that long imprisonment on these ships — we will use that term; it is not the exact term — confinement. What was the effect of that on the health of the men? A. I can not say that there was any sickness of consequence on the 14tli. Q. Did it show itself when you reached Cuba? A. No, sir; we had this hospital ship, the Olivette, that had a signal flying, going aroimd from ship to shiij every day. She took off very few. Q. The men were in fair fighting condition when you reached Cuba? A. That is my belief. Of course the fact of staying so long at that place was some discontentment to the men, being there without action.. Whenever I passed backward and forward they wanted to know when they were going away from there. They were anxioiis to move. Q. Do you laiow. Captain, as to how the medical and (quartermaster's stores were loaded; were they loaded so that each vessel's troops w^ould have the supply of medical and quartermaster's stores and commissary stores that they would need when they landed? A. That is my impression. I don't think there was an overabundance of med- ical stores aboard. I doubt if there was any supply of medical stores outside of these panniers to the best of my recollection. Q. Didn't they have the supplies there at Tampa? CAPT. JAMES M. m'kAY. 2657 A. That, I could not tell. Q. How about the ambulances— do you know anything about the manner in which they were loaded? A. The first order was to take oO ambulances. That was changed down to 10, and tlien to 4. We had 4 with our expedition, if I recollect aright, and there were 4 with General Bates s connuand that came from Mobile, and a few days after- wards there were 10 more that reached Dai(iuiri on the Loimiana. Q. Do you know why the order was changed these several times? A. "Well. I can not tell why the order was changed, but I do not think we had any more capacity to carry wagons. We had a lot of escort wagons, and it was my impression that they were to use these in place of ambulances. Q. In loading the transports, how many wagons — not escort wagons, but other wagons — were allowed for each regiment? A. That, I do not know. I know the number put aboard. Q. How many were put aboard, all told? A. We put alioard at Port Tampa 124 wagons, and then General Bates's com- mand had between GO and 80—1 can not say positively — it was somewhere between 60 and SO. Q, Did you have the animals necessary for all these wagons? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were they loaded— distributed among the vessels as each was loaded, or did you put the wagons on one vessel, all you could, and put animals on others? A. Most of the animals were put aboard the Cherokee and Iroquois and some went on the D. H. Miller. The Cherokee and Iroquois had no mules, but the Miller had all mules. We had mules on the Gussie and mules on the Whitney and the balance — there was a lot of animals with General Bates's command. They were good shiijs. The Gussie did not lose an animal on the way. The Whitney lost about seven. By Genei-al Dodge: Q. How many animals did you ship, all told? A. My impression is when that 'expedition went down, outside of General Bates's, there miist have been 1,400. If I only had the data I could tell exactly. I had what each ship was loaded with and everything. The artillery horses were loaded aboard the Comal and the Berkshire and the Allegheny. Q. And you had a list and knew what was aboard each ship, had you? A. Yes, sir; as well as the chief quartermaster, who had a sheet also. By General Beaver: Q. Had that been indicated in advance, or did you make the memorandum as they were loaded? A. The memorandam was made when they were loaded. Q. How was that as to troops; were the vessels upon which the several organi- zations were to embark indicated and the name furnished to those several organ- izations, or did they go ahead en masse. A. It was indicated what vessels they should go on and the commanding officers had orders what vessels they were to take — some military officers, where they thought that their vessels were overcrowded — General Shaffer ordered an investigation and also to investigate what boats were not overcrowded, and they were changed around that way. There was one transijort we didn't expect to put any one on, but we were to put forage on it, but there were four troops put on her, the Manteo, after we found some vessels had more than they could take. Q. In general, Captain, were the vessels comfortably fixed for the transporta- tion of the ti'oops; had special efforts been made to make them so? A. Yes, sir; for the limited time they had. There was a great hurry to get the 7833— VOL. (J 17 2658 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN expedition off. Every (lay — two or three times a day — a telegram would come for me from Colonel Hnmplirey to Imrry up matters as quickly as possible. If we had had more time we conld probably have made things better. Q. What arrangements were made in advance for disembarking troops after yon reached Cnba, and the stores also? A. "We figured before we left Tampa how many ]>oats there were with each ship and what was the capacity of each boat. I think I have that here now. (Witness here handed paper to General Beaver.) (List of transports, showing number of small boats and carrying capacity of same, marked Exhibit J. McK. No. 1 : Decem- ber 2, 1898.) Q. The Aliuiio had four boats, carrying 80. Is that 80 the total? A. Yes, sir. Q. You could land 80 men with these four boats at once? A. Yes, sir. Q. Besides the crew? A. Yes, sir; that was the capacity allowed by the inspectors when the vessel was inspected. Q. The small boats connected with all the transports numbered 153? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the total number landed at one trii) was 3,434? A. Yes, sir. Q. That would make 3,434, all told? A. Yes, sir. Q. Those boats were propelled by oars? A. Yes, sir. Q. So that the Quartermaster's Deijartment made out in advance the troojis which were designated to go aboard each of the transports? A. I think that was done. The list of transports was submitted to General Shafter, and I think he designated the troops. The chief quartermaster reijorted to me what each transjiort would carry, and then designated what troops should go on these transports. Q. The typewritten part of this statement was what was designated in advance as to what was to be done? A. Yes, sir. Q. For instance, the Alamo, designated No. G — headquarters, band, Companies C, D, E, and G, Tenth United States Infantry; Companies C and E, Engineer Battalion, headquarters Second Brigade, Col. E. P. Pearson, Tenth Infantry? A. Yes, sir. Q. That was General Shafter "s designation what was to go aboard that transport? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is true as to the others in this list? A. Yes, sir. I would not like to submit that as part of my evidence, as there may be errors in it. Q. What I want to get is the fact, if it be a fact, that all this was outlined and furnished in advance as to the transport which was to carry the regiments and companies and headquarters and bands being designated before they went aboard the ship? A. Oh, yes, sir. Q. Did that order go out to the troops? A. It undoubtedly did, because they went aboard those vessels. By Colonel Denbv: Q. And did each colonel know where lie was to go? CAPT JAMES M. m'kAY. 2659 A. He must have known, because he went right down and marched aboard these vessels. By General Dodge: <^. Take the First United States Volunteer Cavalry, did you know what ship they wei*e to go upon? A. The Yucatan. Q. That was their orders? A. Yes, sir. Q. The testimony before us was the Rough Riders seized the Yucatan? A. They didn't do anything of the land. Q. The colonel of that regiment knew what boat he was to go upon? A. He knew that the Yucatan was designated for those troops. Q. And the colonel of the regiment knew it? A. He must have known it. He marched right aboard. Q. Were you there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did anybody go aboard and seize her and bring her in? A. No, sir. She was placed right in the canal alongside the dock, and I had all the stands built. Q. General Beaver (referring to paper): ''Yucatan designated No. 8, liead- (piarters' band and companies C. D. G, and B, Second United States Infantry, First Regiment U. S. \'oluuteer Cavalry." That was all designated before any- body went aboard? A. Yes, sir; that was designated. By Governor Woodbury: ,Q. Was anji;hing taken off? A. I don't think anything was taken off the Yucatan. I have a memorandum in my grip at the hotel now. By General Beaver: Q. From what you say, and from your knowledge, was it possible that orders could have been given, " Yoti go down there and go aboard the first boat you can or you won't get to Cuba? " A. No, sir; nothing of that kind. Everything went along in good order. I had ships in here for these troops to load on. Q. Did they go aboard in an orderly way? A. Just the same as anyone would go aboard from a dock to a ship. There was no confusion or anything. Q. I sui)pose there was some confusion there in a great body of troops? A. I did not see any. The officer would designate — I would see everyone of the regular troops come and the officer would designate what part of the troops he would take. Q. You say there was no confusion? A. I say emphatically there was no confusion. They must have loaded inside of an hour from the time they got there. Q. Had these supplies been put aboard these several boats before the men went aboard? A. The men were the last things to go aboard with the exception of one ship. and after the men went aboard that one we put 60 private horses aboard, and I had orders on the night before we sailed to rip out a lot of berths that they didn't think were in a proper place for the men to go, and I built stalls for 60 horses to go aboard, and it was ready by 7 o'clock in the morning. Q. What were the horses for? 2660 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. They were horses belonging to the different ofificers. Q. You had artillery horses? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many? A. Four batteries. Q. Captain, will yon send up that statement that you have as to the transports? A. Yes, sir; it is only a little memorandum. Q. Have you any other statement— you said you were not quite sure about this? A. I am not quite sure about that. The typewritten part was what was desig- nated first. What I mean— I am not sure that was the amount of troops— at least the number that I have in pencil. By General Dodge: Q. That is the order that came to you? A. Yes, sir. Q. You got that from Colonel Humphrey? A. Yes, sir. Q. And in general that is the way they were loaded? A. Yes, sir. By General McCook: Q. You know that came from General Shafter; or isn't that Colonel Hum- phrey's work? A. I am satisfied it was this way. Colonel Humphrey asked me, " What is the capacity of the different ships?" I made out a memorandum and gave him what I thought was the capacity of the ships, and he sent it to General Shafter, and he issued the order designating what troops woiald go aboard the vessels. I did not see the order, but I understood that from Colonel Humphrey. Q. The (quartermaster designated the capacity? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the commanding general designated the troops to fill that capacity? A. Yes, sir. These vessels were placed along this canal about nine vessels at a time. Then there was room on the front of the dock and the other side for tak- ing eleven to twelve vessels altogether that we could load at once. Q. Where would that order be found— the order designating what troops would go aboard the different vessels? A. I judge that General Shafter issued the orders to each commanding officer what ship he would go on, and designated the same thing in a general order to Colonel Humphrey what troops would go on certain ships. Q. And this list was furnished to you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you loaded them in accordance with it? A. Yes, sir. Q. In loading the transports, Captain, were the stores of the (piartermaster and commissary and medical departments kept separate? A. Yes, sir; they were put down in the lower hold of the vessels, except the medical stores, which were put up above. Q. What was the rule in loading? What was their effort— to get the heavier stuff below? A. Yes, sir; the bacon and stuff like that was put in the bottom of the vessel. We commenced to load the vessels I guess three or four days before they com- menced to put the troops aboard. Q. Did you have a siifficient number of stevedores and laborers? A. All we could work with the accommodations on the dock; that is, with the number of ships we had there. CAPT. JAMES M. m'kAY. 2661 By Governor Woodbury: Q. Could you pick out the commissary supplies without clistiirbing the medical supplies, and vice versa? A. Oh yes, sir; and without touching the ordnance. By Cleneral Dodge: Q. Were all three loaded separately? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did the camp and garrison equipage go? A. Some went down in the same hold, hut in the forward imrt of the boat, some went on the ujiper deck and some between decks. Q. We have had testimony before us saying that these stores were all mixed up; that you had to move medical stores to get commissary stores, etc. A. That is not correct. Q. Were you present when the articles were unloaded? A. Yes, sir; I was not present at every ship. Q. Did you find any difficulty in loading the stores of the several departments? A. No sir; we found no difficulty whatever. The only difficulty was when we wanted some ordnance stores; we had to search over the ordnance stores. We had to search, for instance, if we wanted shrapnel; we had to look throvigh shells, maybe. Q. But medical supplies were not mixed with ordnance? A. Oh, no, sir. Q. Then there was as much order in the loading of the supplies as in the load- of the troops? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you know what was on each vessel? The Witness. In the way of stores? General Dodge. Yes, sir. A. Yes, sir; the chief quartermaster had a list of it and has it now. Q. When you landed in Cuba if he wanted a certain thing, you knew what vessel to go to and where to find it? A. Yes, sir. If we wanted sand bags for filling up for batteries — there came an order one night to send out 30 of these bags. I sent the boat right out and got them and sent them right ashore. Q. If any person went there and was at a loss to know where to find things, it was because he did not go to the right person? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know how many of those lists were made out, Captain, of the load ing of the ships? A. No, sir, I do not know. I know the chief quartermaster had one and I had one, and it was supposed they would call on either one of us for what they wanted. Q. Do you know whether the captain of the vessel had one of the sailing lists? A. They did not have the statement. The officers of the sliip knew where these were. (^. Did the captain see the boat loaded? A. They did not pay any attention to it. It was left to the mates and they knew where the articles were. By Governor. Woodbury: Q. Did they have bills of lading? A. No, sir. By Captain Howell: Q. That depended upon their personal knowledge? 2G62 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir. Q. I want yoii to explain. We have testimony that a great many of these ships were loaded with supplies that were never taken off them at all? A. That is true. Tliey did not require them at Santiago at the time — before the capitulation — and they wanted these ships to go north with the sick and wounded as quick as possible, and it was a rush to get the sick and wounded away from there to get attention, and wo had to take some of these ships that had supplies aboard. Q. You unloaded the shelter tents? A. Yes, sir. We lost a lighter on the way down. Why the captain did not get her I don't know. He said it was so rough he could not find her again. Prom the sea we had, I don't think that was the case, but that is what he said. We had a towboat — Capt. Sam. We missed her more than anything else. She was the one to be used to carry instriTctions from the quartermaster to the differ- ent transports. For some reason she broke down and then of course we had no towboat, but we had a steam lighter — the Bessie. The Bessie started from Pensa- cola and broke down and went l)ack, but she came to us afterwards. We had the Laiird. the Cumberlavd. and the Manteo and anotlier l)oat, a flat lighter, that carried about 200 tons. We had plenty of facilities for discharging this stuff and getting it ashore, but since we hadn't the dock room — after putting in on the beach there was always a surf rolling in there. There was always strong winds blowing at the time, and there was only a little dock that we could depend on at Daiquiri, and that was only the size of this room, and we had to dischai'ge the stxift' there an 1 carry the stuff" on hand cars 3.j0 feet. At Siboney vv^e had a little dock and the sea washed it up, and then the engineers' department built :-inother dock that permitted the coming down on a railroad of a car. and we coiild lay the lighters alongside that dock and transfer the stuff into this car. There was always, of course, a surf heaving in there, and there was always a sea breaking on the beach, and it was with considerable difficulty that we got the stuff' ashore. I presume that is one reason why the tentage was not landed. It was more imiwrtant to get the rations and other things ashore than the tentage at that time, especially as they could not get it to the front, not having transportation enough and the roads being so bad. The roads got so bad there after the first week with the heavy rains that it was almost impossil)le to get the wagons over it. We u.sed pack trains. All the stock we unloaded we had to put them over- board to swim ashore, which we got ashore in forty-eight hotirs, pn^tty ne:ir all of them. We landed the stores at Daiquiri, at the dock there. Q. How near did yoxi get your ships to the shore ? A. There was only oard her? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were the medical supplies at Santiago taken off the Iroquois and Cherokee? A. Yes, sir; they were off the Cherokee, I know, because I took them off myself. Q. Were they taken off the Iroquois ? A. The Iroquois went down to Siboney. I was to discharge her at Daiquiri, and I had orders to send her to Siboney, and she went there to carry sick soldiers. Now. what they did there I don't know. Q. You didn't take the medical supplies off her at Daicpiiri? A. No, sir; I don't think I did. By Governor Woodbury: Q. How many cubic feet of medical supplies besides cots were there on those vessels— how much space? A. If you take everything what you call medical supplies, cots 2668 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. I mean medicine. A. Well, I don't recollect seeing anything of the medical siipplies except a box of bandages, except these ijaniers; that is on the first expedition. Later on we got down a lot of quinine and other stuff, discharged from the Olivette. I should say there were about twenty-five of these iianiers. By General Dodge: Q. Didn't the Olivette sail with you? A. Yes, sir; she was a hospital ship. Q. Didn't she have medical supplies on board her? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you unload any part of her? A. No, sir; she was under a doctor — Major Appel — but I took off her our horses. She had 15 horses aboard her. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Do you know how many medical supplies she had aboard her? A. No, sir; I do not know. She was a hospital ship, and she ought to have had a quantity on her. By General Dodge; Q. How many ships can lie at Port Tampa and l)e loaded at once with stores and then troops? A. You can load 34 or 35 vessels with troops at once. Q. Could you at that time? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many coiild you load with stores? A.. You could not load over 13. Q. Could you load 13 with stores at once? A. Yes, sir. The canal is long enough to take nine lengths of ship, one right ahead of the other, and then over on what they call a little slip you could put two more — that's 11, and one around the dock — 12, and the other side another; that's 13. Q, How much water can you carry in there? A. Up at the end, where I used the Cherokee and Iroquois, which were light- draft boats, 15 feet. Q. How long has that been completed? A. I d(m't know that she is completed yet. Q. Was it deep enough to leave 13 vessels in there at once? A. You can only lay 9 in there at once. I had 19 ships in there with three tier deep. One of those vessels, the Manteo, I think she was intended to carry stores, and they only sent down four companies alioard her. and when we got down there we used her as a lighter as she was a light-draft ship. Q. How much did she draw? A. About 8 feet. Q. Did you use any other? A. We iTsed the Cumberland Q. What was that? A. She would hold 65 horses. Then we had the Laura. There was a lighter boat that would carry 80,000 gallons of water and 200 tons on deck: then the BeJisie that started with the Laura; she came on after that, and we had her too. Q. What was the other boat that you referred to? A. That was another lighter which General Liidlowhad, which was afterAvards picked up and taken ashore. Q. Why did the Capt. Savi return? A. I don't know. Q. Whose order was she under? CAPT. JAMES M. m'kAY. 2669 A. The tjiiiartermaster's. Q. So you left Tampa, in your opinion, with your experience, well pi'epared to land that expedition? A. Yes, sir; to land the expedition without any trouble. Q. When did the Bessie rejoin you? A. Just after the capitulation. By General Beaver : Q. Have you found a nieniorandum which you made yesterday? A. Yes, sir; I made a copy of it. [Produces letter.] Q. The first memorandum which you submitted yesterday, containing the capac- ity of the boats connected with each transport, was that made before you left Tampa? A. Yes, sir. Q. Or afterwards? A. Before. Orders came from Colonel Humphrey to ascertain the niimber of boats, their cai^acity for carrying men, and make a rejiort of it, and I sent one to each captain and had him sign his name and jilace the number of boats on the same paper. Q. Then the question of disembarking in Cuba was fully considered before you left Tampa, and this inquiry was made in reference to that? A. Yes. In addition to that there was also an inquiry made by General Shafter whether any anchors aboard of the shiii could be used for stern anchors, so as to moor the shi]>, head and stern, if it could be done. We made the inquiry, and found the majority of the ships had anchors which could be iTsed. but some did not have them. There was not time to get anchors if we desired, because they all had to come from the North; nothing to be had in that country of any Idnd. Q. The troops then were all put aboard in accordance, in the first place, with the programme which you gave ns yesterday; and the transfers were made subse- quently in accordance with the memorandum which you now submit? A. Yes, sir. Q. And these transfers were based upon the reports which you received that some of the transj^orts were crowded? A. The reports that General Shafter received; and he ordered a number of officials, of which General Lawton was one, to go around and examine and find out if such was the case. Upon their report that memorandum was made oiit and handed to me, as Colonel Humphrey says there. (At this point the memorandum referred to by the witness is presented as Exhibit C. The exhibit reads as follows: "All battalion on Concho and Orizaba of Second Massachiisetts to go to the Knickerbocker. " The Third of the Second Massachusetts on the Seneca go to the Manteo. " Two companies of the Seventeenth on the Cherokee to go to the Comal. " Two companies of the Second Infantry on the Yucatan go to the Comal. " Two companies of the Second Infantry on the Yucatan go to the Clinton. " Two companies of the Tenth Cavalry on the Leona go to the Akiino. ' ' Two companies of the Twenty-first Infantry on the Saratoga go to the Berkshire.'") Q. Then the battalion, as you found it, was on two ships? A. Yes, sir; and all the others now explain themselves. Q. Has anything occiirred to jon diiring the night. Captain, which you wotild like to state to the commission in regard to the embarkation of the troops at Tamija for Cuba — anything that would give us any information which we ought to have? 2G70 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I don't know as there is. I think I have gone over all the ground — stated the number of lighters, what we received there, conditions, and everything. There is nothing said about the embarkation of the troops coming from Santiago north on the vessels. Q. Did you sui^ervise them? A. Yes, sir; and also the embarkation of all the Spanish soldiers that went out of the port of Santiago x^roper. Q. That question is not imi)ortant; we have had nothing in regard to it; it is mere ciiriosity. A. Some of the ships have been criticised by the jiress as being in a filthy con- dition — one in i^articular, the Allegheny. Now, she arrived a day or two before I did at Montauk Point. Dr. McGruder told Colonel Humphrey, in my presence, that tlie AUeghcmj was as clean a ship as there ever came into that port, and that the public statements of the i^ress did not emanate from him, and were not cor- rect. I say, emphatically, that she was one of the best ventilated vessels in the transx)ort service. She was denounced as a cattle ship. She was used as a jias- senger and freight ship by the company that owned her. She was passed upon by a medical officer, and he made his report upon tliese transports before the troops were put aboard. Q. Were all the troops which came from Santiago to embark for the United States at the port of Santiago embarked in the harbor? A. Yes; they were camped oiTt at Siboney before they were Ijroiight to Santiago and transferred to the troop shii)S. Q. When did you go? A. About five days after the cai^itulation. Q. And you siiperintended the embarkation of all the troops? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you see every vessel? A. Yes, sir. Q. Make a personal inspection? A. When she reported as being ready. I reported to Colonel Humphrey and the captain went al)oard. Some of tlie troops went aboard outside of the harbor; some were carritnl down to Guantanamo and there put aboard the war ships. Q. Were troops embarked on any vessels wdiicli had not been inspected and approved by a board of officers appointed for that i)urpose? A. None of them ever sailed out of the harbor of Santiago i^roper Avith the exception of the Concho. The Concho carried up some sick and other troops; they went out first; she was not inspected, I think. Q. She was loaded at Siboney — that is, all sick got aboard there? A. Part of them did. Q. To what extent did you make a personal inspection of the condition of the vessels in which the trooi)s embarked? A. I can't say that I made any. I would go to the captains and toll them, "When can you be ready for receiving troops? Make statement for certain time — for instance, to-morrow. Or, if you can, give me some more time in which to clean her up."' Some of them would require ice; that would delay the sailing of the ship, as of course we would have to get that. And when they would notify me or Colonel Humphrey that they were ready, we would have the doctor go aboard, or a committee, to examine the ship. Q. Was there a full supply of ice at Santiago for all the transports? A. Yes; we had two schooner loads there which were sent down l)y tlie Red Cross or other jieople, and the vessels, some of them, put aboard 50 tons. Q. Did you sui^ervise the loading of these sui)plies which came with the transports? CAPT. JAMES M. M'KAY. 2671 A. Now, I would i)lace a lighter, for instance, for the regimental eciuipage; the officer who was in charge of that regiment I would notify ' ' There is a lighter luaced at this wharf for the loading of your camp eciuiijage." I would give him men: in some instances his own men would assist; in some cases the men did not feel like working. I then placed another lighter for supplies — probably have to carry it about 50 or 60 feet. I would say, "Here is your lighter for supplies." When they had their sxipi)lies on this lighter, I would then send her out. Q. Then the supi)lies for each body of troojis going aboard of a troop ship or transport would be put aboard by the regimental commissioned (piartermaster? A. I saw him go aboard the lighter myself. Q. Was there an abundance of commissary supi)lies at Santiago? A. Yes; the warehouses were stocked — walls crowded. Q. There was no reason why any regiment should not have been siipplied? A. No, sir; they had soups, ginger ales, and in many instances there was a lot of light bread, or wheat bread; two or three wagonloads at a time. Q. Have you any knowledge of what went aboard the Concho at the time she left Santiago? A. No, sir. Q. Do yoii remember the fact of her leaving? A. Yes, sii-. Q. Do you know who went aboard of her at Santiago? A. No, sir. Now, I came iip on the Seneca, the other ship; I came up north on her, and got off at Hampton Roads, and they allowed me to leave her. She was ordered then to New York. I came on then to Washington, and when I got there — Washington — I had a telegram from Colonel Humiihrey to return to San- tiago at once. I came home to fix things, and I went right down and went back to Santiago. C^. What was the condition of the Seneca '^ A. She had more iieople aboard of her than I could i)utin her staterocim. There were a number of them on the floor of her cabin. There were two contract phy- sicians, one of them living in Tampa, who now attends my family; and some of those sick were also in what we call " between decks," in the wooden bunks where the si>lt^it^i"s went when they went to Santiago. I judge there were 25 or 80 of them. There was one young man very bad with the typhoid fever; he was taken up from there and put in a stateroom given up by a passenger. Of course, she did not have ice for only two days. She got a ton from the Red Cross ship, but thei-e was no other ice to be had at Siboney at the time she sailed. Q. The sick were put aboard of her at Siboney? A. Yes. They had some other people aboard of her who were used as niTrses. Dr. Bird told me that he had taken about 15 or 20 of these men to nurse the sick and look out for them. Now, we had plenty of water, but it was getting down toward the bottom of the tank— perhaps 2,000 or o,000 gallons in the tank. But in the rolling of the vessel it stirred the sediment up and discolored the water. It was hot, of course, being down in the hold of the vessel, and, having no ice to cool it. made it very unpalatable. I suffered on that account. Some parts of the ship that were under the directions of the crew could have been cleaned better than they were. Biit so for as the cabin was concerned, it appeared to be in a cleanly condition. Q. Were the bunks that had been used by the soldiers filled, or only aboiit 25 of them? A. Only 25 of them. Q. How many bunks were in the Seneca? A. I guess 600; but there were only about 25 or 30 of the men that were not w<)rse off. 2672 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. Q. There were stateroom Hccoininodations, or upon tlie floor of the saloon, for the 25 men in those bnnks; and the vessel was capable of transporting 500 or GOO? A. Yes; that is, well people. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What did those have who were on the floor? A. Some mattresses and blankets. Dr. Bird is better qualified to give evidence connected with the Seneca, because he was aboard of her and better acquainted, and had charge of her. Q. What did they have for food on the Seneca? A. They had soldiers' rations. I saw, before we left Siboney, in the commis- sary — in fact, I got some of it myself — condensed milk, jellies, and things of that character, two, three, or four days before we left. Q. Did you have soups, jellies, condensed milk, etc.? A. Some of it; but that was brought aboard by the Red Cross shij) by one of the Red Cross ladies. Q. Did you have sufficient of these articles? A. I can't say so. Q. Can yoii say that they were not sufficient? A. No, sir; I can not. By General Dodge: C^. Did you know of the steward of the boat selling articles to the men aboard? A. Not on that ship; heard of it on other ships. I saw him selling (luite a lot of beer. I saw the officers, etc., drinking beer. Q. So he had a storeroom from which he sold articles? A. Yes, sir. You see that ship had been down there about five or six weeks, and they had no means of getting anything outside of the commissary depart- ment. No sui^ply to draw from anywhere else. Q. Did you see the steward selling canned fruits, etc.? A. No, sir. I doubt very much if they had any canned fruits on board: but I saw these supplies of jellies and canned milk in the commissary at Siboney, because I got a can or so two or three days before that. Q. But what you had aboard the Seneca was put there by the Red Cross Society? A. Yes, sir. Q. Had they a representative on board? A. Miss Jennings, who was getting a passage. Q. Did she distribute them? A. Yes; she performed very able service there. Q. What nurses wei'e there aboard — detail nurses? A. I don't know as to that. I was speaking to this Dr. Bird about nurses. He said, " Well, I have taken in 15 or 20 of the best soldiers, and put them at it." Q. Do you know whether the doctors had medical supplies? A. Well, he had plenty of quinine and pills, becatise I got 170 grains myself; sometimes 35 grains per day. Q. As to other things, you don't know, I sujipose? A. No, sir. Q. Do you make any complaint regarding shortage in medicine? A. No, sir. Q. Was there a tendency of the increased tone of the atmosphere to bring out the malaria? A. Yes; probably. Q. You didn't go to Montauk? A. Not at that time; tlie last of August. We left about 200 convalescents there; came up on the City of Washington. CAPT. JAMES M. m'kAY. 2673 Q. Who were uboard of lier? A. Colonel Hniuphivy and some civilian enii)loyees. Q. Did you visit Camp Wikoff':' A. We were ordered the next day ti> New York. Q. Have you any other statement that you would like to make which would add to your previous testimony, or would throw any additional light iipon this matter? A. No, sir; I can not say. By General Beaver: Q. Do you state that the Red Cross had two schooners of ice at Santiago? A. I don't believe both of them. One was sent by a gentleman North, to Gen- eral Shafter. Q. What storage of ice did the (Tovernment have for the people who were sic-k? A. We iised that. Q. The Government had none? A. No, sir; I don't think so. Q. What arrangements did you make at Tampa? A. We got ice at St. Petersburg; there are ice houses there. We could dra^v from Ybor City, Tampa, or St. Petersburg, and, in fact, all along that line of railroad there is ice. Q. All those transports — did they all have ice? A. All had them full. Q. Now, there has been complaint from these transi^oi-ts at Santiago that they asked for permission to go to Jamaica for ice and fresh water. Do you know any- thing about that? A. I know that we sent one transport there — but it was the Seneca — principally to try and get laborers, and what they got the captain had to get by sleight of hand. They refused to allow any laborers to come down. The British consul notified us we would get the Government in controversy if we tried it. He got some water there, but he had to get it very quietly. Q. Or ice either? A. No, sir; that was the reason that afterwards they never sent any vessel over there, I presume. And then, again, it was because they could not spare her away from there at that time. Q. To Montauk Point? A. No, sir; those who went to Montauk Point — they got ice. Q. Where did you get that? A. From schooners, and from what was sent to General Shafter. Q. From the north? A. Yes, sir. Q. Donations? A. Yes, sir. Q. There were no donations made by the Government for ice? A. I don't know about that. Could not say aboiit that. We not only loaded up the transports with all the ice we could carry, but there was ice distributed to all troops back of Santiago; we would send the lighter down and get 30 or 40 tons of it. By General Dodge: Q. Then, if the ships did not have ice, it was because they did not have the capacity? A. Yes, sir; in some instances we put ice into the water tanks; dropped it in there so as to keep the water cool as long as possible, and tried to save the sxipply they had on board: capacity was small. Now, at Daiquiri, we could get some 7833 — VOL. (3 18 2674 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. water from the water pipes; tliey would come along the dock, and we watered quite a number of vessels from that dock. By General Beaver: Q. What kind of water was that, captain? A. Like all Cuban water; (^uite good; came from siirings about 3 or 4 miles from the coast. Q. Did you see the camp from Guantanamo of the marines? A. I saw it at a distance. Q. They all had tents, did they not? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there any sickness in that camiJ that you know of? A. Not that I know of. It was right down at the point where you go into the bay, on the right-hand side. Q. You did not go in? A. No, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Yoii stated yesterday in your testimony that you made an api)lication to the Navy Department for lighters, and that they declined to give them to you? A. Colonel Humi)hrey told me that he made a re(iiiest from General Shaffer to get one from the navy, and that the General notified him afterwards that tlie navy could not spare them. Q. Where were you on duty from the 24tli of June to the 10th of Jiily? Which point on that coast — Dai(£uiri or Siboney? A. I came on the Seneca. I left there the Saratoga Seguranca . . Seneca Stillwater .. Vigilancia .. Whitney . . . Yucatan Laura' Total Steam lighter Laura . Number! 9„f- ofhoat<5 'yU'S oi Doats. capacity. 6 ■i (1 f> None. 153 Men. 160 120 90 132 80 90 108 140 50 130 90 150 ;5,034 400 3,434 Steam lighter, capable of carrying 400 men. CAPT. TAMES M. Al'lCAf. Troops on board the foHounng named trannijorts^. 2679 steamer. Desig- nating No. Troops on board. Offi- cers. Men. Alamo Allegbeny Aransas Berkshire Breakwater - - Cherokee - - - Comal Concho Clinton City of Washington Cumberland D. H. Miller , Florida Gussie - irociuois Kanawha Knickerbocker Laura Leona' . Manteo Matteawan. Miami Morgan.. Olivette Orizaba . Rio Graude. San Marc< Santiago. Saratoga Seguranca. Seneca Ste-c^ens — Stillwater . . Vigilaucia - . Whitney -.. Yucatan ... 13 Headquarters band, Cos. C, D, E,and G, inth U. S Infantry; Cos. C and E, Engineer Battalion; headquarters 2d Brigade, Col. E.P.Pearson, 10th Infantry. Cavalry division, Maj. Gen. Joe Wheeler; Lieut. Col. J. H. Dorst, adjutant general. 3d Infantry Liglit artillery battalion: Light Battery A, 3d U. S. Artillery; Light Battery F, 3d U. S. Artillery. One regiment, 3d U.S. Infantry One regiment, 13th U. S. Infantry; headquarters and three companies of 17th U. S. Infantry. Co. 1, Tth U. S. Infantry, and Light Batteries E and K, 1st (J. S. Artillery. One regiment. 4th U. S. Infantry: one regiment, 3.5th U.S Infantry; licadiiuarters 3d Brigade. Cos. D and H. 3d T.S. Infantry.. --- One battalion, 31st U. S. Infantry; one regiment, 24th U.S. Infantry. Cos. E, G, and H, Tth U. S. Infantry. Headquarters Cos A, B. C, D. and F, Tth U. S. In fantry; Cos.C,G, II, and K, 17th U. S. Infantry; headquarters 3d Division, Brig. Gen. H.W.Law ton; C.-ipt. H. ('. Carliaiigli, ad.iutant-general: headfiuartcrs 3d l^rigade. Brig. Gen. A.R.Chaf- fee; First. Lieut. F. L. Winn, assistant adjutant- general. Headquarters and two companies of 2d Massachu- setts Volunteers. One regiment. 1st U. S. Cavalry; one regiment, 10th U. S. Cavalry, headquarters 1st Brigade, Brig. Gen. S. B. M. Young; Capt. Robt. Sewell, adju- tant-genej-al. Two conipaiiies 17th U. S. Infantry and two compa- nies3d Massachusetts Volunteers. One regiment, .3('th U. S. Infantry; Troops F and D, 2d U. S. Cavalry; Independent Brigade: Brig. Gen. J. C. Bates; Maj. John A. Logan, adjutant- general. One regiment. (ith U. S. Infantry; one regiment, 9th \J. S. Cavalry. Major Rafferty and Troop C, 2d U. S. Cavalry Hospital - One regiment, 23d U. S. Infantry; Batteries G and H, 4th Artillery. ( i^iege Artillery Battalion. ) One regiment. 3d U. S. Cavalry; one regiment, Oth U. S. Cavalry: balloon signal detachment, Maj. J. E. Maxfield. Cos. A,E,F,and H,3d U.S. Infantry: urchased in Baltimore, Chicago', St. Louis, Detroit, New York, and Boston. Everything was done to procure the tents. It was thought better to have a poor tent than no tent at all. We even rented a circus tent, and that was appreciated more than any other tent we had. The clothing, the kersey, could not be procured. There was not a yard of it in the coimtry. It was neces- sary to have it fabricated. That was done by contract. In order to supply the troops with trousers we bought what we believed the next licst material, or as near the original article as possible — as near the Government standard as possible. So it was with the blouse. We did not have so much difficulty with that. We could get flannel where we could not get the kersey. We then bought dark blue pants instead of light blue, the Army standard. We could not buy the light blue. Undershirts and underclothing were purchased, but they were not as good or suit- able as the Government standard. They would not wear any length of time, but they cost a good deal less than our clothing. In the matter of hats, we could not procure them fast enough by contract and bought as many as we could buy in the open market. Q. Do you recall the date. Colonel, at which you began to make preparations for these purchases — make inquiries in regard to tentage and all that sort of thing— was it before or after the actual declaration of war? A. I was not here at that time. I was stationed in San Francisco, and I did not get here until the2Sth day of April: but while not many purchases had been made prior to the declai'ation of war, the Quartermaster-General had sent out and ascertained where supplies could be had. Q. He had the knowledge that enabled him to make instant preparation? A. Yes, sir. There was no hesitation after the thing was decided. Q. To what extent were the troops called upon to suffer for lack of uniforms — was there any actual suffering that you know of? A. No, sir. The troops were rushed in so fast at Tampa that it was utterly impossible to clothe them all at once, but jiist as soon as I got there and saw the situation I telegraphed to the Quartermaster-General a list of all the stores, cloth- ing, camp and garrison equijiage, and every vai'iety of stores that were needed there, and asked that they be sent by special train. That was done, and in three days we had a special train of 80 .cars. They were soon unloaded and the stores and clothing — that came first- were issued to the trooiis. The general impression had been, even after the troops got into the field, that they were fully ecpiipped. That was not correct. Even a New York regiment was only partially ec^uipped. Some had different colored pants, some had different lilouses, some had different hats — we had reports in some cases — they had all the tents they wanted. One State offered to loan the Government tents. The offer was accepted, and it was found it had not enough to furnish its own men. Q. That arose from the fact that in the National Guard organization it is rather a skeleton than a full organization. They would have 50 men. although the stand- ard is 100 in a company, and two battalions in a regiment, whereas the standard is three battalions? A. That arose partly from the fact that the men iinable to enlist or failed to pass the physical examination remained at home and kept their uniforms that were furnished by the United States. At no time were any regiments, so far as my knowledge is concerned, more than two [a few] days without being partially equipped, if not entirely ecjuipped. Q. You left that Bureau in May? A. Yes, sir. Q. So that you can not tell us when the Quartermaster-General's Department COL. JAMES M. MOORE. 2699 overtook the demand and got ahead so that there was clothing on hand, not only for meeting all demands, but with a surplus? A. Well, it took— to say a surplus, a surplus probably occurred after about two [corrected to three] months, a surplus of some things. The tent business was the hardest we had to deal with, on account of the scarcity of canvas— about two months ago we had over 5,000 [corrected to 800] tents ahead and they are making them i-ight along. The kersey for the pants had all to be made by the Govern- ment in order to supply these men, and we had to buy as near the Government standard as possible so as to keep the men well supplied. There was a great deal of clothing destroyed on account of sickness. When men went in hospitals and went away they were given new clothing. Q. Is there much demand for the Government standard kersey outside of the Government itself? A. No, sir; I don't think there is. It stood the test of wear in service for a long time and I don't think we have succeeded in buying any kersey equal to the Gov- ernment standard. The Icersey wo bought is a lighter material. It is more suit- able than the heavier material that has been used. By General Dodge: Q. Do you consider the uniform that is furnished to troops now in the Southern camps, Savannah for instance, and Athens, a fit uniform for the climate of Cuba? A. No, sir; I do not. I think that that has been a question that has been sub- mitted to the department commander in Cuba and Porto Rico, and a niTmber of officers here have discussed the subject and they don't agree. I know from my own experience in hunting that a canvas coat is the hottest coat I can wear. I woTild rather wear a blue flannel blouse. The men rarely wear a blouse in sum- nier. They wear a bhie shirt with a belt around it. That is one of the most desirable parts to the uniform, the dark blue shirt, if they wear woolen. I tinder- stand now that General Wood has recommended a light material made of cotton similar to that which the officers of the Spanish army wear, a light blouse of brownish color. He has recommended cotton goods and we are looking into that now, and a number are being made. Q. Are your troops in these camps now not clothed with the woolen blouse and pants? A. Yes, sir. Also cotton duck and drilling. Q. I asked you the question if you tliought that the uniforms that these troops have now are proper for use in Cuba. A. Our uniform is the proper uniform for troops in this country, but not for a hot climate; it is said our uniform, with the exception of lighter pants, is better for Cuba during winter months — is better than the light cotton— but cotton is the proper uniform during the summer months. The nights there are cool, and men can sleep under blankets. Q. You consider the uniforms the troops have in the South are tit for this time in Cuba? A. Yes, sir. Q. There are some complaints I have here complaining of the uniform that the troops are obliged to wear in Cuba now. A. I think that the cotton is more suitable in the summer time— eight months in the year— but our uniform, with the probable exception of the pants, which might bo lighter, is the best they can wear for the winter. Suitable uniforms for tropical countries are now being fabricated by the Quartermaster-General. By Colonel Denby: Q. Have you considered the pith helmet instead of the hat? A. Yes, sir; but they could not be had in this country, and it was found a long 2700 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPA'N. time would be reciiiired to manufacture them in Hongkong and Pekin. I think in campaigning and actual warfare the felt hat is better. If a man throws a hat aside and another steps on it, it will not be hurt. Q. How about the straw hat or manila hat in Cuba? A. I think the manila hat is the better hat. The straw is too light. It does not protect the back of the neck. A doctor who spei;t some years in Cuba said thai the pith he^met or the China hat made in Hongkong is the better hat for a tropica i climate. Q. You stated that the commander of the department !ii Cuba and a number of officers examined into these (luestions but have n..t decided them? A. They seeni to differ about what is best to be worn. Q. Is that the reason why the Quartermaster's Department lias delayed in fur- nishing them? A. The Quartermaster's Department has furnished the light uniforms of cotton and, as stated, is making a large number at the present time. By General Dodge: Q. Going back to this transportation question at Montauk, we have the testi- mony of Colonel Forwood— was he there at the time you were there? A. Yes, sir. Q. The question was asked him if he knew any reason why the sick who could scarcely stand, and only with assistance, were compelled to walk from the wharf to the detention camp and hospital, and he stated that he knew of no reason excepting that they did not have the transportation. Now, the (inestion is asked directly if the Quartermaster's Department furnishe5c. per barrel . 6c. per barrel . 3c. per sack . . . Ic. per sack.. Sic. per 100. Rates agreed to. 2c. Ic. 2c. 2c. 2c. 2c. 3c. 2c. 2c. 2c. 3c. 3c. Ic. Ic. Ic. 2c. 2c. 4c. 4c. 4c. 4c. 8c. 3c. 4c. 4c. These rates will reduce wharfage below tariff rates about 50 per cent. Qn dockage from the establishuient of camps up to and including July 3, date of service rendered, 1 cent per ton gross tonnage, instead of 1} cents per ton per day, and from and including July 4, 1898, dockage at the rate of three-fourths of a cent per ton gross tonnage. In the little time I was there I was able to save the Government about $80,000. By Grovernor Woodbury: Q. Is that wharfage? A. The whole thing. The water supply amounted to a great deal. The camp at Tami)a, I suppose, e.\tended 5 miles. That is not taking into consideration the command at Port Tampa. Q. Please state whether or not the ])rices finally agreed upon and paid were fair? A. Yes. sir; the prices were low, and 1 considered fair, taking int>portuuity for any exchange of opinions as to quality, etc. I had difficulty in securing most of these gentlemen connected with the hat trade for the reason that they did not wish to antagonize those in their business, and it was only after promising that their names would be considered c(jnfiden- tial that they consented to make the examination. One of the experts mentioned by Mr. Knox (in accompanying papers) was shown the hats and promptly selected the Government standard. As the inferiority of the Knox hat, compared with the (Government standard, has been unquestionably established, and the action of the inspectors, Charles J. Heller and C. H. Gladding, as well as the officers connected with the Philadelphia depot of the Quartermaster's Department sustained, I am of the opinion, and respectfully submit, that further controversy on this subject should end, as it is inimical to the best interests of the service, inasmuch as it establishes a precedent for every failing and disgruntled contractor to oppose the action of the employees and officers of this department. The statement made by Supt. E. H. Kerwin. connected with the Knox factory, that Charles J. Heller was drunk when he made the examination of hats in that place is refuted by Heller in affidavit sworn to on the 3d instant, marked "A." Mr. Benjamin Brown, of the firm of Dickerson & Brown, having made an affi- davit that the contract man of the establishment of Hood, Foulkrod & Co. , Market street, Philadelphia, had sufficient influence with the inspector to get any hats passed that came anyv/here near the requirements of specifications, and that he, the contract man, would expect 3.1 cents per hat for any contract his firm might secure, I called on Brown al^his factory in Brooklyn in relation to his statement. He said he did not know of any employee connected with the Philadelphia depot ever receiving a bribe, or that it was necessary to fee anybody to get goods accepted, and that it was only a rumor. I re(iuested him to accompany me to Philadelphia and find the party that had made the accusation. He said he cth street, heing duly sworn, doth say as follows: I have had contracts with the Qiaarterinaster's Department of the United States Government since January, 1877, and have had transactions with Quartermaster- Generals M. C. Meigs, Ingalls, Batchelder, Holabird, Rucker, Sawtelle, Weeks, and the present Quartermaster-General, Marshall I. Ludington, and with Colonels Rucker, Chandler, Holabird, Ludington, Majors Moore, Furey, etc., at the Phila. ©ffice and those in charge at the Scliuylkill arsenal, Captains Jno. F. Rodgers, Gill; Majors Furey, Williams, and Hathaway. 1 have at all times faithfully executed and iierformed to the strict letter of e;ich and any contract entered into by me, of which I take i)leasure in referring to any of the living gentlemen referred to above. During the early part of this year, as far as my memory serves me, in May I was in the outer room of the depot quartermaster's office in Philadelphia, prior to the opening of a bid for drab campaign hats. I entered the room to take note of the prices and names of the various bidders for 10,000 hats upon proposal to be opened at that time. I learned then that Mr. Edward M. Knox, of this city, was the low- est bidder for the above order. As I had previously, eighteen months before, put in a bid for Mr. Knox in my own individual name at a very much higher price, I was rather surprised that he did not pay me the compliment to come and ask me to bid for him, as he did upon the prior occasion. Happening to meet Mr. Knox one or two days afterward on Fifth avenue, I said to him, "1 see you are the lowest bidder for the 10,000 hats. " He answered, " Oh, yes; that 10,000 hats was set up for me, as Gen. Corbin is my brother-in-law, and the award will be made to me." Several days afterwards Mr. Knox sent for me and stated he want^l to see me. T went to his office in the front of his Fifth ave- nue retail store. He desired information from me as to the correct manner of filling out his bonds that were sent to him for signature and proper attesting by the (luartermaster's depot office in Philadelphia. I explained to him that the same had to be certified by a notary public as to the correctness of the signatures, and also that the certification as to the surety must be made before a U. S. commis- sioner as to the correctness of the same. Mr. Knox replied, '• I would see them in hell first. I do not propose to go to any damn politician to certify to me. I can buy and sell them all." I said, "You do not know what you are talking about, Mr. Knox. Mr. Samuel H. Ly7iian is theU. S. commissioner I go before. He is a gentleman— not a politician— and has held the office for ;!, great number of years," and, in a laughing manner, I said, "If Mr. Lyman heard you say lie was a politi- cian, he would kill you." He finally got his bookkeeper and superintendent to sign the bonds. They Vvent with me before the U. S. Commissioner Lymau, and was questioned very closely as to their ability to sign the bond for §3,500, and, if I am correct, made them swear that each one owned freehold prop- erty to that amount. As near as my memory is correct in the matter I am almost positive that Mr. Knox stated to me that he would not give any bonds, and so wrote to tlie Department. If such is the case, it is a matter of record and can be substantiated. Several days after this I received a call from Mr. McFarland, the superintendent of the Knox Hat Company in Brooklyn, and he stated to me that all his goods that he had sent to Philadelphia had been rejected. I said, "Guess they are not right. " He asked me when I was going to Philadelphia. I said, " I guess this afternoon." Hesaid he would accompany me there, and asked me if I would introduce him to the officials at the arsenal. I said, "Certainly, with pleasure." We went to the 2710 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. arsenal together, but first called upon Lt. Col. Furey, and I introduced him to Mr. ^IcFarland. I introduced Mr. IMcFarland also to Maj. Hathaway, the officer in charge of the arsenal, and I think Capt. Bingham was present at the time. The Major, after some conversation with Mr. McFarland, in which he stated that the hats were sent in a very unmercantile condition and manner, referred us then to Mr. Gladding. I introduced the gentleman to Mr. Gladding, and Mr. Gladding, in a very courteous and x^oHte manner, showed him conclusively wherein the hats were wrong, and also the very sloppy manner in which they had been sent, as I saw, myself, a large number of hats strung together with cord, the top box and the liottom box being all broken and the hats were all creased and crushed. Mr. McFarland acknowledged that he was very much surprised, and said it was the fault of their packer and shipper. I did not return with Mr. Mc-Fai'land, as I had other business there, but saw him two days afterwards, and he said that he would make the proper hats. He then sent some other hats to Philadelpliia with a Mr. Kerwin. 1 was in Philadelphia at the time. I did not see Mr. Kerwin. but met him on the boat going to New York City about 12 o'clock at night, as I had taken the 10 o'clock train. He said he did not know what to say to Mr. McFarland Vv^hen he got back. He thotight the hats were right. 1 answered him that he could make up his mind that the hats were not right, and they would not be accepted until they were right. He. Kerwin, stated that he thought influence would get them throiigh. My decisive answer to him was, which I remember very distinctly, "The only influence you can bring to bear there is correct hats, and then you will have an easy matter of it." Mr. McFarland called to see me after this, and 1 stated to him that it was no use, he v/ould have to get his hats right. In all the conversations with Mr. McFarland he had a very insinuating and insolent manner, trying to impress upon me that it was his impression that it was a (jues- tion of dollars and cents whether he would get his hats through there or not. I never in any manner, shape, or form said anything to him that he could by impli- cation or otherwise form any idea that such would be the case. 1 did not think at that time any reason why I shoiild disabuse his mind what he was hinting at. I stated to him, •' You had better make six hats correct and send them to f Philadel- phia." He said he would. I hold a letter from him to the effect that he would make six hats which could not be torn. He made tliose six hats and submitted them in my presence at the ar.senal. Tlie inspector. Mr. Gladding, stated that those hats were right, but he did not know how far the dye might affect the strength of the same, but that in the condition they were then, which was a nat- ural color, they were correct, except that they were not dyed. The first I knew of anything was that he had shipped several dozen hats, of which all were rejected. Mr. McFarland then called upon me and stated in the presence of my clerks that it would be worth two or three hundred, five hundred dollars or more to get those hats through. My answer was distinctly to him, "Never mind that; you get your hats right, and they will then be accepted," which ended the lonversation. I have not seen Mr. McFarland since. I have seen Mr. Knox on several occasions, as I daily pass his store door, sometimes twice a day regularly, sometimes four times, going to and coming from where I dine. On one or two occasions Mr. Knox has called me in. and on one iiarticular occasion stated to me that Col. Furey was a scoundrel, a corrupt official , and a thief, and he would down him if it took all the influence at his command, and turned to me in an angry tone of voice and said, 'And if you are in mj* way. I will brush you aside." My reply to ^Ir. Knox was, "You liad better be careful what you say regarding the former, and regarding the latter, Til take care of that, old man; my shoulders are broad, and I'll stand any racket you choo.se to put up against me." I did not see him until just after tlic opening of the bids for 125. 000 hats on July 2;3d. I was walking with my bruther on Fifth avenue when I was accosted by one COL. JAMES M. MOORE. 2711 of Mr. Knox's men. v>-ho stated that Mr. Knox wanted to see me. I said I was busy, but was just going down that way and asked him where he was. He said, " He is at the store. " I went to the store and found that he was in the back part of the corridor of the Fifth Avenue Hotel with two men, one of whom he introduced to me; he was a Mr. Austin. He said, '-Who has been awarded the contract on this 125,000 hats, Lyon?" My answer was, " I do not know; the award has not yet been made." He asked, "What are the bids?" As this was a matter of pu1)lic property, I tohl him. His answer was, " Oh, Ferry & Napier will get it," and stated liow the other l)ids, such as Horstmann and Thomas, were dummy l)ids for Ferry & Napier, and then hollered out in a loud tone of voice as he passed me that tiie colonel in Philadelphia was a thief. One of the men who were j)resent at the time asked me who was this go-between. Mr. Knox turned to me and winked his eye. I immediately turned and said to him, " Don't you dare to make such an attack upon me: if you do, I'll make you take the consequences," and left him. I have not seen him since. I understand that he made the remark that I came into his office and stated that for $oOO, or some amount of money, I would have the thing fixed for him in Phila- delphia, and that he ordered me out of his office. £ desire to state that no such remark was made by me at any time whatever, and Mr. Knox laaows it. In conclusion I desire to state the character of this man is well known. When- ever he can not ride roughshod over others, he seeks to maliciously malign them, as per the case against him brought by Mr. John H. Spellman in 1894 for §50,000 for defamation of cliaracter and slander, in which Mr. Knox gave an interview to a reporter of the Herald and the Recorder and then denied under oatli that he never gave any such report. I have in my possession a true and correct copy from the supreme court of New York in this case, and also a true report from the records of the police commissioners of N. Y. City, regarding the issue with Mr. Knox after not being awarded a contract. These I can produce at any time. I trust that tlie reimtation held l)y me at the Quartermaster's Department, U. S, A., for the past twenty-odd years shall be, and is, an answer to any malicious falsehood this man has told against me, for the purpose and motive of which I know not. Edmond R. Lyon. Sworn to before me this Kith day of August, 180S. [seal.] Loretia E. Hicks, Notary Public 189, N. Y. Co. F. State of New York, County of Neir York, ss: Personally appeared before me, Wm. R. Hilbert, a notary puplic for the city and county of New York, this the 29th day of October, 1898, George J. Ferry, who deposeth and saith that he is the senior partner of the firm of Ferry & Napier, doing business as maniifacturers of hats at 21 and 23 West Fourth street. New York C'ity; that commencing in the month of January, 1896, his firm (in the name of Wm. Wolfarth, an employee) \uanufactured for the United States Gov- ernment 40,000 dral) campaign hats under a contract dated December thirteenth, 1895, (that he was inf(n'ined later some of these hats had been adopted as stand- ard samples) , and that the standard specifications were fully complied with in the manufacture of the entire contract. Georcje J. Ferry. Subscribed and sworn to before me the 29th day of October, 1898. [seal.] Wm. R, Hilbert, Notary Public, U7, N. Y. Co. 2712 INVESTIGATION OF ('ONDIK 'T OF WAR WITH SPAIN. G. State of Pennsylvania, City and County of Philadelphia, ss: James Marshall, of Fall River, Mass., heing- duly sworn according to law, deposes and says that he is a member of the firm of James Marshall & Brothers; that the campaif,'n hats made by the said firm of Marshall *fe Brothers for Wm. H. Horstmann Company, of the city of Philadelphia, and by them furnished to the Quartermaster's Department, U. S. A., were made strictly in accordance with the specifications adopted by said department on the eleventh day of March, 1897. Further this deponent saith not. James Marshall. Sworn and subscribed to before me this second day of November. A. D. 1898. [SEAL.] Joshua R. Morgan, Notary Public. H. New York, Aug. IGth, 1S9S. State of New York, City and County of New York, .s.s.- I, Edward J. Ryan, residing at No. 88 Bedford street. New York City, being duly sworn, doth say as follows: I am engaged by Mr. Edmond R. Lyon, 258 Fifth avenue, New York City, as salesman for the western territory. While sitting in our showroom in the latter part of June— the day or date I do not remember — the following conversation occurred between a Mr. McFarland, representative of the Knox Hat Company, and Mr. Edmond R. Lyon. Mr. McFarland was anxious regarding the acceptance of hats to the arsenal in Philadelphia, for which his house had a contract from the United States Quartermaster's Department. Mr. McFarland stated to Mr. Lym that something must or would have to be done, and made inference — of which I do not exactly understand— to secure the delivery and acceptance of hats, and wanted Mr.' Lyon to try and fix up the matter at the Philadelphia end to get the hats accepted; and the answer Mr. Lyon made, which I distinctly heard, was: "Get your hats right and they will then be accepted." Edward J. Ryan. Sworn to before me Aug. 10, 1898. [SEAL.] Loretia E. Hicks, Notary Public 189, N. Y. Co. Boston, Mass., December S, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF COL. JOHN F. MARSH. Col. John F. Marsh, not sworn, as no lawyer was present, testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Be kind enough to give us your name, rank, regiment, and service you have had. A. I was lieutenant-colonel of the Twelfth New Hampshire Regiment, and— do you want my whole service? Q. Only in this late war with Spain. A. I had no rank in the late war. I am a citizen. Q. Be kind enough to give us your name and residence. A. John F. Marsh, Springfield, Mass. I have prepared some notes which I will read, if you wish. Last June I left Springfield, the .Ith, and returned the l>ith. I went to Chickamauga, spending a day there looking over the camps. I heard com- COL. JOHN _F. MARSH. 2715 plaints that the water supply was deficient and also that it was irapiire. I noticed that the sinks were offensive. This was observable as I rode past on the public roads of the park. Some of these offensive sinks were quite near the traveled road and were used without i)rotection and in full view of the i^assers by. The ground appeared too lard and rocky for a camp. From Chickamauga I went to Jackson- ville, spending several days there. I heard no complaints at Chickamauga or Jacksonville that the rations were not sufficient in quantity, but some complaints that the potatoes were bitter. I investigated some of these complaints and found that potatoes originally good were allowed to spoil by remaining uncovered in the sun. This, after the potatoes had been issued to the company. Bad cooking had much to do with all the complaints I heard and investigated. Parker House stand- ard of cooking didn't seem to be in vogue. I was at Port Tampa on the 12th of June and went on board the Orizaba, trans- port No. 24. She was very much crowded, Init, as some change occurred before sailing on the 14th, this may have Ix'en remedied. The health of the troops at all these places seemed to be excellent. On the 12th of July I left New York on the St. Lo)iis, and on the 22d wo aiichored in Ham])ton Roads. The St. Lcmis, with steam up, ready to sail at an hour's notice, waited several days before troops came on board. Captain (xoodrich, U, S. N. , commanding the St. Louis, told me, and said he had informed the proper authorities, that he could accommodate 802 men and their officers, and hadn't room for any more men. The Third Illinois Volun- teers, 1,2.)0 men and their officers, came on board, also General Brooke and staff. Sailed July 28; landed at Porto Rico August 2 and o. The men, as many as could, remained on deck day and night, and, as it rained occasionally, it was not a com- fortable sleeping place. The rains, however, were light, and the motion of the ship so stead j% that less inconvenience was experienced than reasonably might be expected. Hot coffee was served, but no food for the men was cooked on the shij). I talked freely with the men and officers of the Third Illinois Volunteers, and con- cluded that the men were not properly rationed, but whose fault it was I couldn't decide. The officers were undoubtedly good citizens at home, but, to use a slang phrase, they didn't know as soldiers, from colonel to second lieutenant, how to keep a hotel. Cans of baked beans, issued as weighing 3 pounds each, weighed 2:^ pounds, and. six of these cans were given to a company of 100 men for a meal, about 2,'. ounces to a man. There was no (juestion but what the men were hungry, but they were so enthusiastic over the idea, of landing in a few days at Porto Rico that I think hrmger didn't trorible them much. I landed at Santiago August 7, and the same day went out to the camp of the Second Massachusetts Regiment. I found the camp badly located and in a most itnsanitary condition; a very large percentage of the men and officers sick. There was not even a show of military discipline. The tents, located without order or regularity, were, with two or three exceptions, without ditches to turn away the Vv^ater from the inside, where the men were compelled to lie on the ground or close to it. There ajppeared to have been no inspection of the regimental camp by those higher in authority, and the colonel commanding seemed to have neglected every precartion necessary to preserve and protect the health and efficiency of his regi- ment. Fresh beef was allowed to lie on the ground, a cloth under it, in the sun for hours, black with flies, tliere being no cover over it, before it was disti'ibuted. The order of the camp was bad. General Shatter knew nothing of the condition of this regiment, so he said, until I informed him. 1 found it difficult to get necessary information of a very simple character from Colonel Humphrey, chief quartermaster at Santiago, and I heard many complaints of this official. I left Santiago August 10 on the St. Louis for Montauk Point. Two regiments of United States Infantry, the Ninth and Tenth, and two companies of the Seventy- first New York Volunteers came back on the St, Louis, something like 800 men in all. The troops were well cared for, receiving their food from the ship at a per 2714 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. diem rate, as agreed with General Shatter before leaving Santiago. At Moiitank Point the troops were sent on shore after a thorough fumigation, one man having died of yellow fever a few hours before our arrival. The quarantine officers con- trolled everything connected with the landing at Montauk. All but nine sick men had been taken off the ship, and these were left without an attendant. Seven of these men could walk with assistance, but two could not stand up and were almost in a dying condition. All were said to have yellow fever. Half an hour after thetrooi)s left a hospital steamboat came alongside to take off their sick men. Not a man from the hospital boat would come near the sick men, and men from the SI. Loxiti helped them down the jilank; that is, seven of them; two wore car- ried down on stretchers, more dead than alive, and hiid down on the upper deck of the V)oat — on the cold, wet deck, without even a bhinket under or over them, and in this condition, the wind fresh and cold, the steamboat started for the shore — Camp Wikoff. From the deck of the St. Louis I watched, but saw no one go near the poor fellows lying uncovered and helpless. Q. Be kind enough to tell us the name of the hospital boat. A. I don't know. Q. Would you know it if you were to hear it? A. I didn't get the name of it; boats were constantly coming out and going away. Q. I want to find out, if possible, whether it was or not the quarantine boat Elaine. A. It was not; that was a kind of patrol boat; this was a side- wheel steamboat — a white boat. Special Note by Dr. Conner: Ascertain the name of this boat, whether quaran- tine boat or whether belonging to the Army; I am quite sure it will prove to be the quarantine boat; I do not think the quarantine boat woiald allow any other boat to go in to that ship. A. They didn't while we kept in quarantine, and while there my friends came and they drove them off. C^. It was on this occasion that Clarke, of your city, came to see you? A. Yes, sir. Q. He testified before us that they ordered him off, very gruffly? A. I don't know anything about that; they ordered everybody off; there were a number of boats came up, knowing I was on the St. Louis—wanted to interview me; I only recognized one person, that was Col. Roger Morgan, of the governor's staff; I knew him by his dress. Q. Be kind enough to tell us in what condition, from 5'our standpoint, were those various cami^s — in bad order, badly policed? A. At Chickamauga: I went down there as the gtiest of Captain Rockwell of General Brooke's staff; I intended to stay there two or three days with him. I got there in the morning; everything was infernally dusty there and dirty. I went from there that night, and had to promise that I would come back in the morning, but I didn't do it without (lualification. It took me two hours to get cleaned up. In riding through I thought— with the exception of the bad odors from the sinks, and those badly constructed sinks — they were in general— every- thing appeared to bo in very good condition. Q. Did you notice that the camps were very much crowded, that several regi- ments were crowded together, and that the men in each regiment, their tents were closely i)itched? A. That command was considerably scattered. I asked Colonel Clough why it was so scattered. They said there were 40.000 men there. He said the reason was he groTind w;is hard and rocky; they could not put down sinks; they had to spread around to find any place in the earth to cover up with. COL. JOHN P. MARSH. 2715 Q. Did you notice whether in the camp of the First New Hampshire the tents were very closely put together? A. Pretty near. I have seen tents that way in service. I don't see any par- ticular objection to it, if they were properly pitched. Q. Can you give me a little more in detail your experience with Colonel Hum- phrey? What was the occasion of your interview? A. I went down to Cuba, or Santiago, as representative of a Volunteer Soldiers' and Sailors" Aid Society, of Springfield, and incidentally, also, of the ]\Iassachu- setts Volunteer Aid Society, at the request of Chairman Hai-t. There v/ere sup- plies on the St. LouIh for the Second, Sixth, and Ninth Massachusetts. These supplies were all addressed to the surgeons of the regiments, and while they were put in such a way on the ships that they held Captain Goodrich responsible for them, there was a private understanding with Hsrfc that I should look after them and watch the captains. It was quite well, perhaps, that I did, because the captain was relieved on the St. Louis at Guantanauio Bay, and I never saw him afterwards. After a promise had been granted for an agent to go down on tlie St. Loiii.. IS9S. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. IRA C. BROWN. Maj. Ira C. BranvN then appeared before the commission, and tlie president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the Presi- dent of the United States, indicating the scope of the iuvestigatiori. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereuixm duly sworn by General Wilson. By Dr. Conner : Q. Will you give us your name, rank, and date of commission, and the places at which you have served during the late war with Spain? MAJ. IKA C. BROWN. 2727 A. Date of commission, August 7, 1898; major and brigade surgeon; served at Tampa. Fernandina. and Montauk. Q. Will you please tell us what time you went to Montauk, and what duty was assigned to you? A. I arrived at Montauk on the night of August 7, left camp on the forenoon of August 8, and on the 9th or 10th I was made executive officer, and served as such until the 16th of October, when I was made surgeon in charge in the general hos- pital, and served as such until November 16. when it was closed. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us the duties of the executive officer? A. The duties as performed by me were, having general supervision over all the departments, to see if all orders were executed: all orders practically went through my department. Q. What orders were given to you upon assuming charge, or at a subsequent period, respecting the policing of the camp? A. Up to that time there was none. That was looked after by the details sent from the regiments to do the guarding and policing. Q. Under whose orders? A. General Young's. Q. They reported under orders from him, but when they reported who did they receive orders from? A. From me. Q. In the first place, what was the character of the details sent you? A. Originally there were three men sent from each company over the entire command, and latterly one battalion was sent. Q. About what period? A. Prior to the middle of September. Q. What was the number of detailed men sent you for hospital protection and care? A. Hospital protection is a guard that was sent; the first two or three days we had 9 posts, and about a week later 20 posts, and in addition to that 100 men were sent as a policing party. Q. Were these details sent under your orders— examined subject to your orders? A. Examined subject to my orders. Q. Who was the commander of the detail? A. Major Meacham, of the engineers. Q. What orders were sent respecting the care of the hospital? A. My instructions were to constantly police in and around the hospital. By General Wilson: Q. Will you state whether volunteers or regular engineers— draw the line? A. Volunteers; the Second Volunteers. They were instructed to properly police in and aroiand the tents and at a distance of 100 feet. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was this done pro]ierly under these orders? A. It was very much so; in fact, the best policing I ever saw. Q. You know nothing of the condition of affairs prior to j'ou going there? A. Nothing: I was the first man at Montauk and the last man. (^. What were the orders respecting visitors? A. At the beginning there were none, visitors went in pretty much as they pleased, but after that the guards were put on. Q. What time was that? A. About the 15th of August I issued ail order that no visitors were to be allowed in the hospital without first getting a pass from my office; the guards were put on at the hospitals to prevent their going in there. The reason was that 2728 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. the doctors complaiued of the men being annoyed, and things being given to them that they ought not to have had by kind-hearted people. Q. Was this order obeyed? A. It was. Q. How thoroughly? A. Occasionally a woman got through, but I never heard of a man Q. Was there or not great confusion in the hospital during the first tw j weeks you were there? A. I did not see any great confusion: there was lots of work, but it went on. Q. I mean in conseciuence of the visitors? A. Yes, sir; I asked the provost guard to include the hospital, and for a time it was done, and it simplified our work very much; but by somebody's order, I never knew whose, the guard was relieved and the people began to flock in again. Q. Did you apply for a reissue of the order at that time? A. I did not make direct application. I talked the matter over, of course, gen- erally with the officers. We rounded them up three or four times a day, or as many times as necessary, and it was talked over, and we thought if a guard was put on the main entrance and the kitchen it would be sufficient. Q. Did it prove to be so? A. Only partially. Q. Did you then apply for a change of orders or alter them yourself? A. I did not alter the orders as far as the provost was concerned; I simply doubled the guard at the entrance, and I believe from that time on very few got through without an order from my office. There were people coming there who really had a right to go in, such as relatives and friends, who had an interest in the patient and were not looking for a hero to worship. Q. Was the guard changed daily or a permanent guard? A. It was changed daily. Q. Do you or not know whether application was made for a permanent guard? A. There was an application for a permanent guard in September, and one bat- talion was sent there. They remained one day of twenty-four hours, and then received orders to leave Mtmtauk, and we went back upon the old order. Q. Was it not possible to have another permanent guard? A. Not at that time. I think that was the last regiment there, or the last two battalions. Q. Do you or not know whether the application was made for a permanent guard by the chief surgeon? A. No, sir; I do not know what the chief surgeon did. He talked with me at the beginning, and I asked him for 100 men, and they thought that was too much, and there were nine posts sent up of three men each. Q Do you know whether there were any complaints in relation to the policing or care of the hospital? A. I only know that after the first visit of the Secretary of War all policing was turned over to me. Q. When was that? A. Some time the latter part of August. Q. Were all the orders that you received verbal or written? A. Usually oral. Q. Were not written orders issued to you by any of the authorities? A. Yes, sir; (General Wheeler issued one or two orders. Q. Relating to what? A. To my duties generally as a pqlicing officer, and then jinother addition was made to my work— looking after the special 23 27iH INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITJI SPAIN. A. That complaiut was luado by us. The commander determines what is best for the sick men. Now. I think the best judge is the doctor, who understands his business, and so far as the sick at the hospital was concerned they were given such food as was best for them. Q. You don't know anything about the detention camp? A. No, sir; only by hearsay. I did not pay much attention to that. By Dr. Conner: Q. I would like to ask why, when the n arses came there and the hospital was first established, they were told they would haveto waita week or ten days before you could use them? A. What kind — trained nurses? Q. Yes, sir. A. I never heard of that. I advocated female nurses, and it was opposed at first. Q, By whom? A. I think Colonel Forwood. Yoii can not say it was opposition, either. That was in the very beghming, when we didn't know just where we were at, and we learned later on. I was of the opinion that female nurses would be a big thing, and he was soon convinced of it. He was not opposed to them. He was finally very enthusiastic. They came there in great numbers. Finally we had 101 Sis- ters of Charity and 132 other nurses. Q. Were j^ou able to secure trained men nurses? A. They were not a howling success. They wanted to mess with the officers, and wanted a brigadier's (quarters, and we had a round-up the first day. Q. How many stayed? A. Two left the same day they came and the rest stayed there. By General McCook: Q. Wasn't the delay about female nurses on account of the lack of accommoda- tions for them? A. That was a great objection of Dr. Forwood's. It is a iiuestion m military camps anyway; but we managed to give them protection and there was no ques- tion about it; but it worried him considerably. By General Dodge: Q. How do you account for the great number of complaints that have been made? A. By the statements of people who talked mostly of things they knew the least about, principally women, who are sympatlietic. They were nervous and flashy about certain things. They came there, having never seen a hospital and never seen a sick soldier, or anything of the kind. It was not a condition that would inspire a poet, but it was nothing unusual except as to the numbers. It was practically as bad in Tampa, only tliero was not as large a number, and they thought the soldiers were terribly abused because they did not have feather beds and lamb chops, and all that sort of thing. The fact of giving typhoid-fever patients li(iuid diet led them to think we were starving them. There was a case where a woman got into a ward where a man had dysentery and gavehim oranges. He had had hemorrhages, and we had just got his dysentery checlied. We had had a hard time to stop it, and it went through him whole. That is one of the things we had to contend with. The " hero worshipers '' wanted hands to hold and brows to rub, and they would get in, and you could not keep them out. By General McCook : Q. Did you see any .of those " body snatchers? " A. They had to pick out a certain kind of a man. He had to have a certain kind of facial or physical development; they would not have anything else. LIEUT. COL. M. C. MARTIN. 2755 By General Dodge: Q. What conditions would you have if you were to try it over again? A. There should be a high fence — 10 feet high — of iron, with sharp-pointed prongs at the top, all around the hospital. I think we could hold that, with the aid of the Ninth (colored) Cavalry. By General McCooK: Q. You say you were at Tampa? A. Yes, sir. Q. What kind of a camp was that there? A. I don't think much of Tampa. I think I had yellow fever there. It was a continual Turkish bath to me. 1 lost nearly 60 pounds. By Dr. Conner: Q. How long were you there? A. About seventeen or eighteen days, and at Fernandina or on the road about another week, and at Fernandina about four weeks, when I got away from there for Montauk. Washington, D. C, December 5, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF LIEUT. COL. M. C. MARTIN Lieut. Col. M. C. Martin appeared before the commission and was read the scope of inquiry, and, having no objections, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Colonel, will you kindly give us your name and rank and where you served during the war with Spain? A. My name is Medad C. Martin, lieutenant-colonel, of the Quartermaster's Department. I have been on duty in the Quarter master- General's Office, in charge of the bureau of construction and repairs. In addition to that, I was in charge of the general supplies at Camp Alger during the existence of the camp. Q. Had you any part in the location of Camp Alger? A. Yes, sir. In connection with another officer, I was directed personally Ijy the Quartermaster-General to look around the surrounding country and \i\ck what we considered the most suitable location lor a corps of volunteers. I did that in con- nection with one other officer. Q. His name? A. Major Seyburn, captain of the Tenth Infantry. Q. Genei'al Miles's staff? A. Yes, sir; he represented the Commanding General of the Army. Q. Did you consider the inducements, territorial and physical and business, which led to the location of Camp Alger? A. It was one tract of land which we found within convenient distance of the city, where we got nearly enough land for the entire corps in one body, so that it could be practically together. It was at a distance back from the Potomac, far enough to be away from the malarial influence of the river. It was on making various inciuiries in the countrj' surrounding that we found it was a section of country that had been particularly free from diseases of any kind, according to the testimony of the inhabitants. The ground itself was rolling and apparently well adapted to camp grounds, and it could be well drained. The facilities for getting wood for a large body of men was excellent. It could be gotten on the place. It was located only 2 miles from the railroad, and in our investigation 2750 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. we found that there was, at the time we selected it, plenty of water on the site from a large number of springs and streams running through the tracts. It was much better water, as far as surface indications go, than any other tract of land we could find of any size; but we did not rely upon those things in our final report. We found that without doubt any (luantity of good water could be obtained at a distance of 50 or 75 feet below the ground. In our consideration of this site one objection to it we found was that there was not a place for the men to bathe freely; but we could not find a place that we considered had that facility and the other facilities that this place had, and it was not an impossible matter for the troops to march to the Potomac for a bath, and we had rather an idea that one of the ravines on this camp ground might possibly be dammed uj) and a large pool made there; but Ihat was never carried out. Q. Colonel, how many sites for camping grounds did you examine? A. Personally I examined probably eight or ten. Captain Seyburn examined a great many more than I did. Q. With reference to the location of this camp? A. Yes. I was on duty at the Quartermaster- General's Office at that time and Captain Seyburn had less to attend to, and he examined more sites than I did. Q. And ycu took his report as to other sites which he did not regard as being suitable? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there any other consideration directly or indirectly involved in the location of this camp than those which you have mentioned relating to the body of land, together with the wood, the i^rospective water supply, the drainage, and all the elements that enter into the location of a good camp? Were you influenced by any person, your superior or any other individual, in the making of this selec- tion? A. No, sir; the only other consideration that I know of was the very low price at which we got this tract of land. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Three hundred dollars per month? By General Beaver: Q. How many acres were included in the tract? A. One thousand four hundred in the tract. Q. Was the lease for any specific number of months, or for the time the Gov- ernment might desire it? A. My recollection is that the ground was to be occupied for not less than three months, and at the expiration of three months it could be given up at any time on thirty days" notice. I would not be positive. I know that the Government had the right to occupy the ground for a year or give it up on thirty days' notice, after, 1 think, three months, Q. Then you had the control of that land during the summer time, when the crops would be put in and the men would be deprived of the year's use of it prac- tically, by paying for three or four months, if you should desire? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it a crop farm or grazing? A. Very little under cultivation, sir. Probably half of the 1,400 acres were woodland, and I don't think there was over 75 or possibly 80 acres in all under cultivation. Q. What was it usually planted in— corn or wheat? A. I don't know; had some small fields; I saw no small grain. Q. Any wheat? A. Don't know: the grain had not come up at the time. LIEUT. COL. M. C. MARTIN. 2757 Q. If anything was planted in it, of course that was destroyed by the use the Govei'nnient made of it, or was it thrown out by the camp? A. That was destroyed. Q. To whom did you make your report, Colonel, as to the camp? A. To the Quartermaster-General. Q. By whom was the conti*act made; do you know? A. By myself. Q. Did your colleague on the committee on the board unite with you on the board, or did he make his report to General Miles? A. He did not unite with me on mine. I presume he made his to General Miles. Q. Do you know as to whether or not General Miles made any recommendation on the subject? A. I don' know, sir. Q. Were the siibsequent results confirmative of your opinion of selecting the ground? A. Yes, sir. Q. You found in experience just what you expected to find in making your examination, did you? Water could be found at the depth ()f which you spoke? Good drainage, convenience of transportation, wood, and all the other things? A. Yes, sir. Q. Looking at it from this end. Colonel, was the ground in itself considered or the location in itself considered as a healthy or unhealthy one? Was the unhealthi- ness of Camp Alger due to location or other causes, in your jxidgment? A. In my judgment, without being an expert at all in such matters, or jirob- ably not having as good an opportunity as others, I never considered that the unhealthiness was due to the location. Q. Have you anything to say in regard to the administration of your depart- ment while you were there? A. No, sir; I don't think that we have any special complaints. By Colonel Denby: Q. Whose business was it, Colonel, to determine the location of the camp — Quartermaster's Department or the General of the Army? A. Well, sir, it was frequently done by some staff officers; sometimes by the Quartermaster and sometimes by the engineers. Q. That is what I want to find out. You sa.y you have an officer detailed by the Commanding General; had he equal authority with j'ou? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, then, suppose he made a different report from yours, which would have been adopted? A. Somebody else would have been designated to look after both and come to a conclusion. Q. Who would finally decide it: who has the responsibility of deciding: Quai*- termaster or Commanding General? A. The Quartermaster submitted tlie report that I made to him to the Secretary of War. Q. Then you understand that the Secretary of War is clothed with authority to designate the locality of camps? A. Finally, as he has charge of everything of that kind. Q. He has more authority than the Commanding General in that regard? A. If he desires to exercise it, unquestionablj' he could override the authority of the Commanding General. Q. You don't kno^s" in this case whether (lamp Alger was recommended by your colleague or not? A. I know only in all our conversations that it was a suitable locality. 2758 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN."" Q. Yon don't know whether the Commanding General took any official action on the .subject or not? A. No, sir. Q. All you know is that the Commanding General designated that? A. The Quartermaster approved my report. Q. Then the Secretary of War fixed the location, did he? A. Yes, sir. By General McCook: Q. Who owned this land? A. A man named Campbell, or his wife, owned the ground— Mrs. Campbell, By Captain Howell: Q. You made the contract with some reservations made there by tlie owner of the land? A. He reserved the right to use certain roadways. Q. And the land adjoining it? A. No, sir; only a roadway 40 feet wide. Q. Subseciuently leased to the booth owners? A. There was nothing reserved that he could lease to anybody else at all. Well, there was reserved, if I am correct— yes, his residence was in the midst of that ' tract and he did reserve the land immediately surrounding his residence and his barns. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Who sublet that part of it? A. If any was siiblet it must have been by Mr. Campbell. General Beaveh. He could not sublet what he had let to the United States. By General Dodge: Q. Was there not a clause in your contract by which a certain width on each side of the road was reserved by Campbell? A. No. sir; there was a certain width of road over which he had the right to pass. Q. On whose ground were all the shacks and booths that surrounded this camp? A. There were a good many of them on the grounds that were leased by the Government. Q. There were a good many placed on the grounds? A. Yes, sir. Q. By whose permission? A. By the commanding officer's of the camp, I suppose. Q. How was it that General Graham could not exercise any authority and put his line of sentinels inside of the booths because the Government did not have that land? A. There were a number of booths right across the road from this line, and of course the Government had no authority over them. There was a whole row of them across from the camp. Q. The road was on the line of the Campbell tract, was it? A. Yes; and I think after General Graham drove them from the land Ihoy had been allowed to scjuat on that land across the road. By General Beaver: > Q. You have the charge of the department of repairs, did you say. Colonel? A. Construction and repairs. Q. What does that ini-lude? A. Building of barracloard shelters for the soldiers and the cook houses. Q. Can y(ni tell us how much lumber has been furnished for the purposes which J ou have mentioned during the v/ar? A. I could not tell, because at a great many of these places lumber has been iKmght on the order of the commanding general of the troops there as emer- gency required for immediate use before the matter had come to the Quartermaster- (leneral's Office. Q. How much has been furnished of which you have knowledge— how many million feet in round nnmbf-rs? I don't expect you to answer it offhand. A. Well, I should say that at these various camp grounds throughout the country there has been several million feet of lumber furnished for tent floors and things of that kind. The Government has now the contract for 8,000.000 feet of lumber for the use of the troops in Cuba. We have also built several large hospitals— a 1,000-bed hospital at Fortress Monroe, a 1,000- bed hospital at Savan- nah, a 500-bed hospital at San Francisco, and we have provided in the permanent barracks temporary additions for large hospitals at Forts McPherson and Myer and Camp Thomas. We have spent, probably, well, close on to half a million dollars. Q. What is to be the capacity of Fort Myer hospital, do you think? A. I think its capacity now is about 350 or 300 persons. They are all located in the permanent buildings there. The only particular changes that had been made was to convert the riding hall into a hospital ward. Q. That is, flooring it and ceiling it and putting in steam heat? A. Yes. sir. Q. When the hospitals at Savannah and San Francisco and elsewhere of a per- manent character are finished, what will be the capacity of the permanent hos- pitals and pavilion hospitals? A. Well, of a strictly so-called pavilion hospital, the capacity will be 3,000 beds, and then at these various posts, which are not included in what are called the pavilion hospitals, there is probably a capacity for a thousand more. And then there are various small pavilions at certain posts; for instance, there are six pavil- ions at Fort Hamilton that will accommodate 200 patients; there are foiir at Fort Wadsworth that would accommodate 160 patients; there are two at Washington Barracks and at Fort Columbus that will accommodate 80 patients each. Q. In round numbers, what will be the hospital capacity of the Government for caring for sick soldiers the coming winter in this country? A. Between five and six thousand. Q. Are you making any effort in the direction of building hospitals in Cuba? A. Nothing further than sending down these large amounts of lumber. There have been several suggestions made as to what will be the best methods for con- struction of the hospitals there, but it is not fully decided yet; but the basis of them has to be tents and lumber; so we are providing those. Q. Then you are anticipating to that extent the conclusion which may be arrived at by the medical authorities as to what is best? A. Yes. Q. What has been done by the Quartermaster's Department: anything in regard to the construction of roads in Cuba or Porto Rico? A. There has been very little done that has come to the knowledge of the bureau 2760 INVESTIGATION OF CUiNDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. here. There has been considerable done at Santiago, immediately around the city of Santiago, but General Wood has done that himself. Q. With his own resources? A. Yes; very largely. In Cuba we have only taken up the matter of construc- tion of two small pieces of railway track, but nothing else to the other roads, because our information is that the country roads immediately about Havana are very good. Q. Was your department brought into relation with the efforts that were made by General Stone as to roadmaking in Cuba? A. No, sir. Q. General Stone is the Chief of the Road Inquiry Bureau of the Agricultural Department, is he not? A. I believe so; yes. Q. And appointed a brigadier-general and put in control of the road construc- tion in Cuba, as I understand; am I correct, or don't you know? A. No, sir; I don't know. Q. If you have any statement to make. Colonel, that you think will be helpful to us or of interest, we will be glad to hear it. A. I was just going to say I would like to look over this list and refresh my rec- ollection, if I have made any errors about it? By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you have anything to do with the selection of any other camp site? A. No, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. I would like to know if the Commanding General approved that list and what action he took in regard to the report made by Major Seyburn? A. If he made any, it is undoubtedly on file in the Qnartermaster-General's Office or in the office of the Secretary of War; I will make inquiries and see if I can find out anything about it. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Do you know that Major Seyburn reported to General Miles, and whether General Miles recommended to the Secretary of War that that site be selected? A. I don't know: I understood that he would recommend it to General Miles, but whether he actually did it or not, I do not know. Q. Was not there an agreement that you made that he would recommend it to General Miles? A. I don't know that he made any agreement, but that was the understanding- yes. Washington, D. C, Deceviber f>, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF CLINTON SMITH. Mr. Clinton Smith, ajjpeared before the commission, and was read the scope of the inquiry, and, having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: Q. Mr. Smith, will you kindly give us your name and position which you have in the Qnartermaster-Generars Office? A. My name is Clinton Smith. I hold a position— have charge of the Construc- tion and Repair Division, under Colonel Martin and Colonel Hodgson, in the Quartermaster-Genorars Office. CLINTON SMITH. 2761 Q. What work have yoti done in that department during the war with Spain? A. We have prepared plans for temporary buildings for different army camps, furnished estimates for lumber, material, etc, Q. Have you had any personal experience in any of the camps established by the Government during the war? A. Yes; at Montauk. Q. When did you go there and hov/ long did you remain? A. I went to Montaiik, I think, tlie ;]d of August: I left the Quartermaster- General's Office the night of the 2d: was at New York the forenoon of the 3d, and went to Montauk the afternoon of the same day. Q. How long did you remain? A. I stayed at Montauk until August 24. Q. For what purpose did you go? A. I was directed by the Quartermaster-General to go there and assist Captain Patton in doing what we could to prepare the camp. Q, Now tell us in your own way just what jon did in that direction? A. I arrived at Montauk the evening of the 3d, as I said before; on Thursday August 4, was at Montauk inspecting the ground for the location of wells. The Quartermaster-General instructed me to be sure and see what could be done for water for this cami), as it was the most important thing to be found out. At this time we did not know that the troops were coming immediately. On August 4, I say. I was at Montauk; August H. Friday, I was at New York making contracts for materials, workmen, lumber, pumps, piping, tanks, sinks, etc., repairing of docks, etc. 1 left New York at 4 a. m., and arrived at Montauk at noon. On my arriv- ing at Montauk, we proceeded to get the lumber, which went out on a freight train, and the piping, boilers, and pumps, in fact, all of the materials as fast as we could get to the site designated, and put them in position. Q. Were the materials for which you made contracts in New York, including lumber, piping, pimips, boilers, etc., properly shipped and received by you at Montauk? A. Yes, sir; they went with me on the train the same Saturday morning that I went to Montauk. Q. Were they rated as sjjecial freight? A. Yes: they went on what I think they call the paper freight. They had one passenger car filled half full with papers, which were distributed along the road. We were due there about 9 or 10 o'clock in the morning, but were delayed until noon on account of this heavy load. Q. So that this material which you purchased was delivered as soon as it could be? A. It could not have been done any quicker. Q. Now, how soon was it iitilized; for instance, how soon did you begin to bore that well, and how rapidly was it done? A. We commenced the afternoon that I arrived there with a large gang of laborers— Italians— that were secured from the Long Island Railroad to come, and we commenced to sink it immediately— worked nights and Sundays. Q. How far did you excavate the earth? A. In what time? Q. How far dovm did you go with the excavations bef(n-e you piit your drill at work? A. We first dug several test holes at different sections of the camp from 6 to S feet deep and then tried to drive well points to secure water. We found that the strata was clay and gravel in alternate layers, and beneath was generally a thick layer of heavy bowlders, which would prevent us from driving the point, and therefore there was only one way to drive and sink the wells. 2762 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. And tlid you sink your wells by digging or drilling? A. By digging. Just dug a regular well about 10 feet in diameter. Q. How deep did you carry that? A. That was carried down about 15 or 16 feet; then we had to plank it or curb it. I can give you the depth here [referring to paper] . The depth was 88 feet and had G feet of water. Q. You were not obliged to resort to a drill at all, then; just carried it down by picks and shovels? A. We resorted to a drill the last few feet. Q. How long did it take you to complete the well? A. I think the well was completed and the pumps running about the 14th or 15th. Q. Troops began to arive from Tampa about the 9th, didn't they? A. Yes, sir. Q. How much water did the wells supply? A. The wells supplied at that time all that a 6-inch pipe and a Dean pump with 10 by G cylinders — about 300,000 gallons per day. Q. The pump supplied all that was necessary for the camp? A. We first put in a pipe at every point for temporary purposes, not for drink- ing purposes, but for cooking or any other purposes. This was used a few days before the pumps of the main well were completed. Q. Did you have charge of the laying of the pipe lines? A. I did; yes, sir. Q. Were they laid in time for the use of the several regiments as they aiTived? A. Yes, sir; they were. Q. How were the water facilities afforded to the troops; pipe run into each regi- ment, and a faucet for each company or for the entire regiment? A. In some cases there were two or three faucets among the regiments. It was intended to put a number in, but by the time we got through there we had not time to fully complete it. The idea was to run several out, from one to three for each one. Q. What else was done there under your direction, Mr. Smith? A. My principal business was to see that water was furnished and laying of pipe lines. The water supply was my general business, although when I first went there I was compelled to see that lumber was gotten for the general hospital; also to see that the storehouses were erected, and docks repaired, etc. Q. How rapidly did the lumber arrive? A. As rapidly as we could take care of it. Q. When did they begin the construction of the commissary storehouse? A. I think they commenced them the next Monday morning after my arrival there, which would be the 8th. I think they commenced it about the 8th. I am not positive about the date. Q. Had yoiT any difficulty in securing carpenters, or did you not look after that part of the work? A. Colonel Miller, and he did most of that work; the ordering of carpenters was done by Colonel Miller and Colonel Hecker. Q. In doing the work which yoii had on hand, will you state whether or not you considered that you had done it in a reasonably short time under the circum- stances? A. I think we did it very rapidly; we prided ourselves in getting out a very quick job under the circumstances. Q. Anything else that you have to state in regard to the work there that you would like to tell us? A. No. I don't know of anything. CLINTON SMITH. 2763 By Colonel Denby: Q. What do you know about the land transportation, teams, etc.; how many there were and whether sufficient or not? A. There were plenty of teams for me when I first went there. 1 secured teams from the Long Island Railroad Company; they had a large number of teams and Italians working there on the road, and the president of the Long Island Railroad Company, Mr. Baldwin, gave me permission, if it was an actual necessity, to use those teams. If we were short of teams I had the privilege of using them. I could state to you that the greatest difficulty in getting teams appeared to be for the general hospital; there was some complaint about that, but my orders were to put all of our energies to supplying materials, men, and teams for the general hos- pital, and I obeyed them to the best of my ability, so much so that a great many times our pipe and stuff was delayed— the men waited for them to get lumber and material to the general hospital. Q. What day did the first troops get there? A. The first troops arrived there about — I can not tell exactly— I think alx)ut August 7 or 8. By Captain Howell: Q. Where did they come from? A. Somewhere in Florida. We did not expect any troops there, but unex- pectedly they commenced to arrive by rail, and they blocked us. Q. Horses and mules came first? A. Yes, sir; a large number of horses and mules arrived there. We were blocked so that we could not get our lumber, piping, and things on account of the large number of cars shipped in, freight and forage, etc. Q. Have you any knowledge how many trips were taken South for the troops? A. I could not answer that. A large quantity of mules, men, and horses and wagons arrived and a large amoimt of transportation; so much so that the presi- dent of the railroad was afraid that there would be a congestion and blockade. Q. Did not interfere with your work? A. Yes, it did somewhat. By Dr. Conner: Q. Do you know anything about the transportation established to the hospital up to the 15th, 16th, or 18th of August? A. In what respect, please? Q. Colonel Forwood telegraphed the Surgeon-General that there were tons of supplies at the depot that he could not get for want of transportation? A. Yes, I think about that time there was some talk from Colonel Forwood about not having sufficient t?ams, etc. , but it was very temporary. For instance, Colonel Forwood went to the quartermaster one afternoon and said that he must have more teams for delivering material, as he had a new order to increase the size of the hospital and he was unable to get the teams at that time; but in a very short time afterwards there was a large number of teams there waiting. Q. Hours? A. Yes, a few hours afterwards. Q. Was there at any time any protracted delay in furnishing transportation, as far as you know? A. I don't know that there was. I think every effort was made to supply the general hospital with everything that was possible in preference to anything else. Q. Who supplied the workmen necessary for the erection of the hospital tents? Was it the Quartermaster's Department or the Medical Department who got the carpenters, workmen, etc.? 2764 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Colonel Miller ordered some carpenters from East Hampton; then he got some from New York. Q. It was then under the charge of the Quartermaster's Department, not the Medical Department, securing men, etc.V A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it often the case that the Medical Department, having received tents, etc., has to provide the men to do the work, nailing floors, etc.? A. Yes, I so understand. A great many times they were short of carpenters, etc., but they were gotten as fast as they could. (^. Do you know as to the ability to put up tents as readily as they were needed? A. I think the tents were put up as fast as they were required. The camp was completed Q. Speaking of the general and detention hospitals? A. The first detention hospital, started by Colonel Forwood, was very nearly completed before the arrival of the troops, but he enlarged it, and that portion was not completed. Q. Was there at any time any material delay because of the nondelivery of lumber? A. Not that 1 know of. There were short delays By Governor Woodbury: Q. Were you delayed in getting lumber from New York to the camp? A. No. sir. C^. How much of a delay did those troops from the South cause you in regard to the construction of the hospitals — how much did they throw you back? A. I could not answer that positively, because I was not in a position to know. Of coxirse it blocked the tracks and delayed las somewhat. Q. Several days? A. Yes; I should say so. By Dr. Conner: Q. Had those troops been kept away a week longer, would the hospitals have been completely put up and ready for the reception of patients? A. Well, 1 don't know as I understand exactly what you have reference to. Q. As I understand you, the coming of the troops did delay the work. Had these troops been kept away a week longer, would the hospitals have been com- pletely put up and ready for the reception of patients— been in such condition as to receive the sick? A. I could not answer that. By Governor Woodbury: Q. You say that the arrival of the troops delayed your work by several days. Do you mean that the arrival of these troops actiially delayed your work by sev- eral days? What do you mean by several days' Was your work stopped, or delayed partially? How many days did you lose on account of those troops? A. I could not answer that, Governor, because it was scattered along in such shape. There were heavy runs, and the roads were extremely muddy and very difficult to get transportation over them: so much so that when the troops went there for their heavy forage they cut it up and made it nearly imjiassable. We could only draw 200 feet of lumber at a load. Q. Now, Mr. Smith, the troops from Tampa, I believe, commenced to arrive the 9th. Is that correct, General Beaver? General Bkavek. That is my recollection. Q. You say the detention hospital was completed by the 14th— that is, by the time the troops arrived from Cuba? A. I could not say. PAYMASTER GENERAL THADDEUS H. STANTON 2765 Q. Well luider way? A. Yes, sir. Q. What I wanted to know is whether you were delayed one, or two, or five days on account of the arrival of these trooi)s. Just say what number, as near as you can. Those hospitals had been constructed in the meantime? A. I don't know, Governor; I would not be able to answer that definitely. Washington, D. C, December 7, 1898. TESTIMONY OF PAYMASTER-GENERAL THADDEUS H. STANTON. Paymaster- General Thaddeus H. Stantox then appeared before the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereiapon duly sworn by General Wilson. By General Beaver: Q. Will you kindly give us your full name, rank, and position in the Army? A. Yes, sir; Thaddeus H. Stanton. Paymaster-General of the United States Army. Q. What is the rule in regard to the time of the payment of the troops? A. When I went there I started in to pay all the Army monthly. We succeeded very well in doing that. Q. Has there been any delay in the payment at any time of any of the troops, either in the United States or serving elsewhere; and, if so, why? A. The principal delay we have had was in Cuba and Porto Rico. The reasons — I do not know what ought to be said about that. The commanding general there declined to have the troops paid. I have some papers here, one particularly [reads from paper] , report from my chief paymaster, Sniflien, which reads as fol- lows: HEADCiUARTERS FiFTH ArMY CoRPS, Santiago de Cuba, August 10, ISDS. Major Sniffen, Chief Paymaster. Sir: The colonel of the Eighth Ohio Volunteer Infantry prefers that his regi- ment be not paid. Very respectfully, Wm. R. Shafter, Major-General, U. S. Volunteers, Commanding. Here is another: Headquarters Fifth Army Corps, August 11, ISOS. To the Chief Paymaster. Sir: The commanding general approves the request of the colonel of the First District of Columbia Volunteers not to have his regiment paid until after return to the United States. Very respectfully, E. J. McClernand, Assistant Adjutant-General. Q. No reasons given? A. No, sir; that is all. [Reads.] August 10, 1898. Maj. C. C. Sniffen, Paymaster. Sir: The light artillery brigade will not be paid here in Cuba. By command of General Shafter. McClernand, Assistant Adjutant-Genend. 27G(> INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. HEADt^UARTERS FlFTII ArMY CORPS, August 11, 1S9S. To the Paymaster. Sir: The commanding general approves the request of Maj. L. M. O'Brien, commanding Seventeenth Infantry, not to have his regiment i^aid until after their return to the United States. Very respectfully, J. C. Gilmore, Jr., Assistant Adjutant-General. Those are samples. Q. Was your department ready to pay? Did it havetlie paymasters on the ground with the money to pay the troops in accordance with the rule established? A. Yes, sir; and with a million and a half of money to pay these troops I had eleven paymasters tliere. I succeeded in getting about one-third of them paid before it was stopped. 1 liave had the paymasters follow them up and pay them there at Montauk. Q. If there was any failure to pay in accordance with your rule, then there was no fault on the part of the Paymaster's Department? A. No, sir; not a particle. The same thing about payment of troops at Porto Rico. I sent down a party of ten, I think it was — or twelve — paymasters on a vessel with a million and a half dollars to pay up Porto Rico. It had been stopped at Santiago, and they were kept there (^uite a little time. For some reason they were detained there. Finally General Miles telegraphed not to bring them there, as the money might be infected. Wanted to come to tlie United States and send another vessel. Q. Infection to tlie United States didn't seem to count? A. I told him the money from these vessels was taken from the treasury of New York and never went ashore at all; and it went on until the President finally ordered the vessel back — ordered it back to Montauk — and in the meantime two paymasters were left there, with the yellow fever, with their clerks. I sent another party to Porto Rico to pay, and they succeeded in paying. Q. This occasione money was collected directly by the general agent in New York. By General Beaver : Q. You spoke a little while ago. Colonel, of purchasing vessels at their value, and not above. In purchasing these vessels, did you fix the value in view of the demand Avhich was made for them, or upon their intrinsic value? A. Largely based on their intrinsic value, as computed by Mr. Kirby. We had. in the case of the Atlantic Transport Line, full Itlue prints and worlcing plans. Q. And the prices represented their value? Did th(> great demand which there was for them influence the prices asked? A. I fancy their asking price was influenced by the great demand. The oly the Chesapeake and Ohio? How much longer were the troops en route than they would have been by the Southern Railway? A. There is a direct line of the Soutliern Railway which they never use by way of Bristol, because it is over a very mountainous district, full of sharp curves, etc., and that has been held up and is referred to here. The other route is one shorter than the Chesapeake and Ohio, but nowhere compared to 172 miles. If you wish, I can give you the details this afternoon. In the case of the diversion of the New York command, that was done at the request of the State officials. They wished them to be sent around by the way of Buffalo. We protested against that; we did not favor it. By General McCook: Q. How did they get on the road, then; who sent them that way? A. We protested against their diversion; but they wished them to go around by the way of Buffalo, and it was their desire. Q. The price was the same? A. Yes, sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. I understand Colonel Lee's testimony had credited your department with having made a lower rate, and really of having been a benefit to the service. Ho made some ci'iticisms? Mr. Howell. He did in regard to the freight. He said your rate was cheaper to the passengers, but he preferred to liave it all together— the freight that went and the passengers. There was 150 i)ounds allowed to each soldier. COL. FRANK J, HECKP^R. 2779 Colonel Denby. Colonel, we don't all remember Colonel Lee's testimony. Would you refer to the page in the testimony and read over any portion to which you object, so that we can know exactly what your objections are? Then you can make any objections you please. Extract from iestiniony of Col. James O. C. Lee read hy Colonel Hecker ditring Jifn examination. •Q. In regard to the contracts, did you receive any order from any superior interfering, in your opinion, with the proper discharge of your duties down there? "A. Not that I recollect. The utmost liberality was shown by the Quarter- master-General to me, and the utmost confidence by General Brooke. When I went to him with a statement that a thing had to be done, I do not recollect of an instance in which he did not approve my recommendation. ' • Q. You never received any order in relation to these contracts that was against yoTir judgment in the discharge of your duty at all? "A. Well, in one or.two instances, perhaps, iiersonally I might have done differ ently from wliat I was directed to do. For instance, I would get an order to pur- chase mules; then would come an order stopping it, and an order to get them from St. Louis; but when I reported that the miiles I got there were better mules by reason of their having been bred there from better mares I was sustained and told to go on; and I do not recollect any serious interference. I felt that with both ends as busy as coiild be they naturally did not always exactly understand each other. But I do not recollect any serious difficulty. When the transporta- tion of regiments was referred to me there was some difficulty, and I had to meet varying conditions, and I said that one officer had better do this. If it could be done better in Washington, it should be done there. They said there was no dis- position to interfere with me, and I was allowed to have my own way about it. " Q. Did you advertise for this transportation? ''A. No; I asked rates of the initial roads, biit they were pretty nearly invari- able. The Southern roads combined on a contract scale, and their rates were always the same. If in any case they were not, I took advantage of that and asked rates, and we kept the railroads well in hand. Of course, there was great rivalry between them, and in the main they were very tractalile — behaving very well. " Q. You had nothing to do with the chartering of vessels? "A. Nothing. " Q. All I want to know is whether anybody superior to you in authority ever interfered in any way from Washington in the discharge of your duty in the matter of contracts? "A. I consider in the shipment of troojis that interference from Washington with a man of my exjierience, by men who were juniors to me, was not warranted, and I made a very vigorous protest and they were not disposed to interfere. " Q. Who were those who were interfering — your juniors? "A. They were in the Quartermaster-General's Dejjartment. " Q. He was not your junior? "A. No. •' Q. I woiTld like to know who those juniors were; I think the committee would like to know. "A. Well, it is — I have no desire to make any question aliout this. It is over, and aft(;r I made my jirotest they receded fi-om their position; in other words, this is just the fact. Any man here knows, as you know, that I have transported troops very successfully all my life. " By General McCooK: " Q. I know that. "A. When I say these young men were interfering from Washington, I knew who was doing it. A dispatch was recei^'cd from the Quartermaster-General, but 2780 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH .SPAIN. when the i)apers were sent in these dispatches were not signed by him. The men who were interfering were conducting the transportation. •' By Governor Woodbury: " Q. Are we to understand that somebody else signed tlie C^nartermaster-Gen- eral's laame, and he did not do it? "A. I would rather you would send for the papers. '' Q. Then you decline? "A. No, if you insist. I have a belief they were signed by other men, but do not want to raise this question with my department. " Q. I want to know whether anybody, while in the discharge of your duty as chief ([uartermaster at that camp at Chickamauga, who was yoiir superior, inter- fered with yoiT in any way in the proper discharge of yoiir duties under the law. "A. I want to make that very clear, that when the regiments were sent away I got the advantage of a, large reduction. There were regiments to be shipped the latter part of Jiily or the first of Augiist to Newport; when this thing began, and then I found I had to conform to different conditions that were bothering me that were unnecessary, in my jiidgment, and I at once made a vigorous protest that if somebody else was going to take charge they must do it; that there could not be two in charge, as it would cause confusion. " Q. What was the reason, in your judgment, for that interference? "A. I do not know; btit when I felt the results I made a vigorous protest, and they said I shoiild not feel sensitive about it; they did not wish to interfere. " Q. To whom was that i^rotest made? "A. To the Qiiartermaster-General, who has always. I believe, sustained me fully, and who desired to sustain me in every way. " Q. You spoke about juniors interfering with you? " A. Those were in the transportation branch of the department. " Q. Who was that officer? "A. Colonel Hecker has had some control of that, and Colonel Bird; and both are colonels now by assignment and both junior to me, of course. " Q. There were complaints made at the time, in the jiapers, that a lot of troops were sent by the Chesapeake and Ohio, aboiit 173 miles farther than a direct line. "A. Longer than that, I think. Yes, there were two comi>laints; one was sent to Newjiort News, and the other to New York by a long route. There is where the trouble began. There was an order to carry them to Newport News, from Chickamauga, by the Chesapeake and Ohio road, and, of course, that was by a longer route. "Q. By 172 miles? "A. More than that. And then the roads made a vigorous protest, and we got orders to take the troops by way of Richmond. Then we had orders to distribute as e(|ually as possible, and to ship them both ways. " Q. As soon as you made your protest, you were immediately sustained and had no further trouble? "A. Yes; General Ludington has sustained me in everything. He has given me the largest freedom of action, and I think when any matter came to him he has treated me fairly. *' Q. Was this office of chief of transportation a new one? "A. During the war the Quartermaster-Generars Office was divided into seven divisions. One man was placed in charge of the transportation branch. He was not called the chief of transportation, but was simply in charge of the transi)ortation branch. Now, I have understood that Cohmel Hecker and Colonel Bird were in charge of this branch — who were colonels by assignment in the volunteers. I did not know that th(>re was to lie anybody to be assigned as chief of transiiortatiou. I have never seen the order at all. COL. FRANK J. HECKER. 2781 " Q. That work of transportation comes within the duty of the Quartermaster- General? "A. Yes; the Qiaartermaster-General has char.ne of all transportation in the Ai'my. " Q. Then, the appointment of a chief of transportation outside of the Quarter- master-General is new, is it? "A. I do not say that any snch ai^pointment has been made. If it has, it is new. " Q. Colonel Bird is in the service? "A. Yes. " Q. And Colonel Hecker? "A. Colonel Bird is a major in the Quartermaster's Department, and has the volunteer rank of colonel. " Q. Colonel Hecker was a civilian? "A. Yes. " Q. Was he appointed Assistant Quartermaster-General? " A. No; he is a colonel and quartermaster in the volunteer service. " Q. Stationed in Washington? "A. Yes. His station is here, and he is on the new commission to Cuba with nie. I have never met him. •' Q. What was your attitude in the matter you have alluded to, of interference? "A. That it should not be managed from two centers, but from one or the other. And their position was receded from, and it was placed right in my hands again. "Q. What was the nature of the interference? Had you made arrangements for transportation? "A. To make that clear, I will tell you when I make arrangements for trans- portation it is always done as a whole and not as a part. You understand that when I ask them to transport 10,000 men and 10,000 tons of stores they will give me a rate on both; but if I ask for a rate on 10,000 men and get a rate there will be an entirely different state of things in case of freight. In other words, if transiiortation was made here for men, and I was required to make transjiorta- tion of freight, 1 would not get the special rates. I said it ought to be done together and done by one i)erson. " Q. You wanted to have them both made at the same time, so that you could get better rates? "A. Yes; when it is all done together we get everything at better rates. I was told a flat rate for passengers had been made a very low one — $10; $10, I think it was, or $8 — very low. I was telegraphed to, and it was a rate to break the power of the combination down there, but nothing was said about freights. I asked what freights had been agreed upon. They then told me to make the freight rates. When 1 ran against the freight rates I found they were pretty stiff about tariff rates — no particular concession. They could not lower them; and then I insisted that these rates should l)e made together; that if I had to he interfered with I could not get good results, and immediately they said there was no disposition to interfere with me. " Q. Then you went on and made those rates together? "A. Yes: after that. We then returned to the flat rate made at that time. Then we had instructions to obtain flat rates all over the country. " Q. That was a flat rate for passengers? "A. For ijassengers, and agreed upon rates for freight. "Q. Together? "A. Together. "Q. You got them from different companies? 2782 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAIi WITH SPAIN. "A. Yefi; that wtis when the trouble bef^an alnrnt tliat. After fixiii;^ the pas- senger I still had to make the freight rates, and found it wa.s much better to make these as a whole. '* Q. This rate that they arranged for here, was it the same rati; or a lower one? " A. I think it was a good bargain. " Q. No loss to the Government? "A, No; not at all. "Q. I understand then; was nij loss caused, but yoii objected to the division of these two things? "A. I objected. There was no loss in the passenger rate. The passenger rate was undoubtedly a very good bargain, as the roads had combined against us. I think that part was exceedingly good. I never knew how it was broiight about. Then I had to take up the freight rates, and by reason of the passenger ratt; hav- ing been made I considered that we were more or less in the power of the roads on the freight rates." By General Beaver: Q. The longer route was at a lower rate? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. Well, Colonel, what have you to say as to the comments made by Colonel Lee? A. Well, I wish to state, Mr. Chairman, the facts as a personal matter. I don't want to go into any controversy. By Governor Woodbury: Q. I didn't consider that Colonel Lee luade any criticism so as to be severe. His idea was in making the contract for freight and passengers together to get a better rate for the Government, and he thought you had made a rate for passen- gers and not regarded the freight. A, When yoiT move a (command you simi")ly i)rovide for that brigade. Now, you can't apply the 150 jJOiTuds allowanc'e for a man to the horses, but we have ai)])lied it to everything else. In the movement of troops and large supplies of (piai-termaster stores the stores come independent of the movement of the brigade. By General McCook: Q. You lowered the price $5 u head? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. And your price prevailed all the time? A. Yes, sir: to Newport News. Q. Eight dollars per head Ijy brigade? A. Yes, sir. By Captain Howei.l: Q. Yoiir action was approved by the Quartermaster-General? A. Yes, sir. Q. He was your superior? A. Yes, sir. By Governor WooDBURY: Q. What price did you pay for tourist and ordinary Pullman sleepers, in general? A. The prices, sir, were for the trip. Chickamauga to New York was one price; Chickamauga to Newport was another iirlce. COL. FRANK J. HECKEK. 2783 Q. Have you in inind any (jf these i)nce,s? A. I am in error, sir. The only price was for Pullman sleepers — for first-class sleepers for officers. The specifications for transporting troops provifleil for the furnishing of tourist sleepers, or, failing that, a full seat in a first-class passenger car for each soldier. Colonel Sexton. I believe that the Colonel stated that the contract calls for tourist coaches, and, not having them, that Pullman coaches of a cheaper grade — old, worn out — be furnished. By General Beaver: Q. Did you have anything to do with rail transportation at Montauk Point — making contracts? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about the provisions of that contract with the Long Island Road and the Quartermaster's Department? A. In general terms, yes; the contract was made by the Quartermaster-General. Q. Did you have any conversation with the president of the Long Island Road, Mr. Baldwin, at any time, in regard to the transportation on his road? A. Yes, sir. Q. Please state whether or not there was anything in that contract which prevented the transportation of trooi)S or supplies by water from New York or other points to and from Montauk Point. A. My recollection is there was nothing in the contract to prevent that; bvit that is only my recollection. I know that troops and supplies were transported to and from Montauk by water. Q. By what class of vessels? Controlled by whom? A. In some instances by the Government; in others, the vessels of private parties. Q. Did Mr. Baldwin ever request you to move troops from Montauk Point by water rather than rail, or say that you were privileged to do so? A. He stated his entire willingness for us to move them by water. Q. From Montauk Point? A. From Montauk Point. Q. Without restricting you as to the method or means of water transportation? A. Without restricting us as to the method or means of water transportation. Q. Then by that you consider that the Government was not under obligations to send its troops by the Long Island Railroad away from Montauk? A. It was not under obligations to send its troops from Montauk Point liy the Long Island Railway. Q. Were you familiar with the terminal facilities of the Long Island Railway at Montauk Point? A. Yes, sir. Q. Please state whether or not they were amply able to transact the business that was given theia by the (:}overnjnent. A. [Witness referring to his memorandum.] Between the 1st and 15th of August additional side tracks were laid and put in usable condition, and after, say on the 13tli of Aiigust, there was no time when there was not side tracks and terminal room sufficient for the Government's re(iuirements. Q. Were those tracks so arranged that wagons could be jilaced at all the cars there for loading and unloading? A. Not all the cars, but most cars; most of them. Q. Most of them? A. Yes, sir. Q. It has ])een stated ])y various persons that tliei-e was confusion — great con- gestion — so that supplies could not be unloaded when they arrived there. Will you please state what you know in regard to that— to what it was attributable? 2784 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. There was congestion in the first half of the month, between the 8th and the 15th, caused ])y the side tracks not being in usable condition. Cars in switching would get off the trac-ks and Idock things for several hours; that would occur two or three times a day. Troops would come in by rail from Long Island City more rapidly than they could he unloaded at Montauk and camped. Animals would come more rapidly than they could be unloaded and taken care of; in fact, there was a congested condition there from the 5th to the 15th. Q. Well, subsequently how was itV A. Thei'e should have l)een no such congestion as there was there. Q. Did you take jjersonal control, or were you fully ac(iuainted with the condi- tions which existed there at the terminal jioints? A. On the days I was there. I was thei'e from the 11th to the 16th; again the 24th and 35th and 36th of August; and I was there again the od, 4th, and 5th of September. Q. How much delay, if any, was there in getting supplies to Montauk on account of the condition of the Long Island road — a one-track road — or in get- ting troops out of there over that road, so far as your knowledge extends? A. There was very little delay in getting supplies to Montauk. There was delay in getting those supplies placed at the warehouses where they could be unloaded. Q. What was the cause of that delay, Colonel? A. Before the 10th of August the storehouses were not completed. Q. And subsequently? A. Between the 10th and 15th the side tracks were in such bad condition. Q. What proportion of the cars were iinloaded at the storehouses and what proportion on the sidings? A. It was intended that all commissary stores should be unloaded at the com- missary house; all quartei-master's stores at the quartermaster's house, and tentage and lumber from the cars. Q. How far were those intentions carried out? A. I could not say. Q. What aboiat land transportation? Do you know anything about the teams? A. There were many teams there. 1 think there were enough. Q. Did you have anything to do with the transportation at Tampa? A. That was before my time. Q. Please state whether or not in any case the rotating of troops was based upon other considerations than those advantageous to the Government and for the well-being of the troops. A. In cases that I have any knowledge of, the routing of troops, in my opinicm, was in every case for the best service of the Government and the care of the troops. By Captain Howeli.: Q. Colonel, do you refer to the testimony of Colonel Lee there in regard to your position? Was there an order assigning you to a <;ertain specific duty? A. Yes, sir. Q. In regard to the transportation of mules and horses from the South to Mon- tauk. do you know anything about that? A. In a general way. I was at Montauk diiring a part of the time they arrived there. Q. You did not have anything to do with the transportation of those troops that came from Tampa and (xeorgia and other places? A. In a direct way — no. sir. Q. Could you ascertain the number by referring to the records, or would it not come in your dei^artment? COL. FRANK J. HECKER. 2785 A. The record is prc)])ably there. I have been away sixty days. Q. But you can ascertain this and give it to us this evening? A. Yes, sir. Q. What I wanted is a statement of the number of trooops and the number of horses and mules that were carried to Montauk Point from the South, not includ- ing those from Santiago. General McCooK. Wagons and wheeling transportation. Colonel Denby. It seems to me that General Dodge has already asked for that. I think he has asked for all that. The Witness [reading] : Would this cover it — animals and wagon transportation? By Captain Howell: Q. From the South. Now, Colonel, I want to ask you in regard to your appoint- ment. Do you know that there has been some comment on account of some favoritism in appointing you? I want to know whether you were selected by Secretary Alger on account of your business qualifications. A. I can not say what influence was used, sir. I was appointed against my wishes. Q. You did not make any application? A. No, sir; I protested against it, and I hesitated so far that when the officer of the Department who administers oaths of office called on me I declined at first to take the oath. Q. And you accepted it to avoid embarrassment to the Secretary of War? A. To him and the President. The nomination was made without my being consulted about it, and I knew nothing (jf it until a gentleman came in to con- gratulate me on my having been confirmed. [Here is the order creating the division of transportation. General Orders, No. 133, War Department, Adjutant-General's Office, Washington, August 18, 1898.] [Paper referred to here filed as a part of witness's testimony and marked Exhibit F. J. H., No. 1, December 7, 1898.] There were moved from the Southern camps — Tampa, Port Tampa, and Fernan- dina — to Montauk Point —54 officers, 3,405 enli-sted men, and 4,663 horses, and 842 mules, and about 135 wagons. [Witness filed paper here as part of his testimony, and marked Exhibit F. J. H., No. 3, December?, 1898.] By Governor Woodbury: Q. Any ambulances ? A. Yes, sir ; the ordinary ambulances were with those. I didn't look at the number, but I am positive from i)ersonal knowledge — I saw them arrive — there were the ordinary equipment of regimental ambulances. By General Beaver : Q. Have you anything further which you wish to sxil)mit ? A. The Arizona, bought on the Pacific coast — here are all the ijapers in the case — cost .$GOU,0()0. It was purchased directly from the Northern Pacific Railroad Com- pany and taken out of their Pacific coast service. By General McCoOK : Q. Do you know whether that is th(i old Arizo7ia that belonged to the National Line ? A. Yes, sir ; the same boat, but rebuilt, reengined, and reboilered. Q. Where was that done ? A. In England, before she came out. 7833— VOL. 6 25 2786 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By Capttiin Howell: Q. What is the tonnage of that boat? A. Five thtnisand tons. We had innch difficulty in getting shijis on the Pacific. We had charttTed everything that we coukl charter and there were calls made for immediate transportation, and if the commission has the time and wonld like to hear of the negotiation which went through I have the particulars of what was rather an interesting negotiation. By Greneral Beaver: Q. Negotiating for jjurchase? A. Yes, sir. Q. On the Pacific coast? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. You can state what vessels were chartered. A. We purchased the Scandia and Arizona. Q. Yoii chartered vessels belonging to the Pacific Mail? A. Yes, sir. Q. What vessels were those? A. That is in the Quartermaster-General's report. Q. The Pefcm.s* A. Yes, sir. Q. The i^^■o.«' A. Yes, sir. Q. The China? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that all? A. No, sir; we had the Senator and all the Spreckels Line that they could spare. They were running to Honolulu. They were the best ships. The China is the best ship in the Pacific. By Governor Woodbury: Q. I judge from the way you speak of the Arizona that you might have had more difficulty in getting ships on the Pacific coast at a moderate price than in the East? A. We did. Q. Did yoir get as good bargains there as in the East? A. We were wholly dependent upon what we termed book information and inspection by officers as to their carrying capacity. We had much difficulty in getting machinery and hull inspection, such as we got on this side. Then, we were offered a lot of Klondike tramps, a number of ships that were hastily fitted up on this side and sent around for the Klondike trade. None of those propositions were accepted. Q. Please state whether or not the purchases that were made there were on as good terms as those in the East. A. I think they were, sir. By General Beaver: Q. What was the negotiation to which you referred. Colonel? A. The negotiation for the two shii)s 7\(rfar and Athenia. They were fir.st offered to \\w. the 22(\ or 2;)d of June at $l.ir)(),()()0 for the two. I got their history pretty fully and declined to consider that offer. They came then with an offer of §1,100,000. Then they sent their representative here who offered them for $900,000. About that time I learned what they cost. They were purchased in COL. FRANK J. HECKER. 2787 London and were relmilt there. Tliey ay^t originally .'j;r)75,0U(), or the pounds equivalent to that. They spent £44,000 on theiu, ecinal to $220,000, or a gross of $795,000. They were ships of considerable carrying capacity and were brought around also for the Klondike trade. The very fact that they were offered and urged in the way they were led us here to think there was excessive shii)i)ing there and we offered them $800,000 for them. Then came the (question of delivery. They wanted to sell them at Vancouver and we insisted on delivery in San Francisco and offered to iray the cost of bringing them to San Fi-ancisco. They were not willing to sell them direct to the Government, and Mr. J. Thomas Burke, of Seattle, was selected to take title, title to Ije passed then^ and he to report here. When the ships reached San Francisco we would pay for them. That was my offer and they accepted it, except as to San Francisco delivery, and when that was declined we purchased the xirizona. Then they sent, instead of an intermediary, an agent of the company here. Previous to that there had been two intermedi- aries here. We did not want them then, the Arizona taking the place of one of them. We would have bought the other for $400,000, or half of the eight, and I made the firm offer, which was to hold good until the 8th of August, which was declined. Then they took it up for the fifth tiiae through a Washington attor- ney and tendered both ships for $800,000. I very frankly showed him that the matter had been gone through and thoroughly thrashed out, but just that very day came an intimation from the Secretary of War that more troops would be needed, and I held good the $400,000 for the choicest ship until the 8th, as I said. That fell through, and as late approximately as the 20th of September they came after us again. We were, of course, through with it. The matter could be most clearly iilaced before you if yoii will let me read you a letter. Here is a copy of my letter sent them July 27: War Department, Quartermaster-General's Office, Washington, D. C, July ^'7, ISDS. Mr. E. V. Skinner, Care A. Piers, Superintendent Steaniships Canadian Pacific Railway Conipany, Montreal, Canada. Sir: Your commxTnication of 26th reached me to-day. In reply, I can only express regret that we can not see our way clear to a mutually satisfactoiy under- standing with reference to the Tartar. You want to sell and we want to buy. But we can not buy the ship on the understanding that we must take lier at Van- couver. We are quite willing to pay for what coal there is on her at Vancouver, which you stated was 1,880 tons, valued at $7,900, and would be willing to allow $2,100 for bringing the ship from Vancouver to San Francisco. Or, to put it in other words, we woxild be willing to fix the price of the ship at $410,000 delivered in San Francisco, with all her equiimient, appurtenances, spare i)arts of every kind, stores, coal, and stewards' stores and supplies except articles in steward's department monogram marked " C. R. P." Title to pass e estimated. The lowest bid of all was from the Philadelphia party, but this bid seemed to me to be impossible. The one bid that seemed most likely which could be accepted was from the Spanish Transatlantique Company. I asked that representative to come here that evening. I telegraphed the Philadelphia man to come here, and I telegraphed Mr. St. Jolm. the paper manufacturer, to come here. The Philadel- phia man came: I saw him first. His was the lowest bid, and my recollection is it was $;^85,000 for the moving of the 25,000 prisoners. I do not recall his name now, but can get the name. By Governor Woodbury: Q. The party you said was a junk dealer? A. Yes, sir. I asked him what shipxiing connections ho had. He said he had none. How did he expect to furnish ships to carry 25,000 men under the condi- tions of the contract? He said he could do it. I said, " You must give me some clear information as to yoiu" facilities." "I do not propose to do that; I do not jiropose to give away my information." " How do you expect the Govei'nment to enter into a contract with you for the carrying of. these 25,000 men and the proper care and protection of the prisoners, which would be a very important factor; how can you expect the Government to consider your bid; what are your \}er- sonal means, and who are you? " " I have a storage warehouse in Philadelphia, where I stoi-e iron and scrap materials. " ' ' You also buy iron and scrap materials? '" "Yes. sir." "What is your firm name; what are you worth?" "I am worth !525,U00. " " The advertisement iiuiting the bids calls for a very large bond; are you prepared to give that bond? " "I have not looked at tliat." I said, " I do not think we can consider your bid at all, .sir." He said, " I believe it is very hard 2790 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. when I li;iv(^ n chance to make some money out of it that I should he deprived of that oppoi-tnuity." I said, ''Well, we have not gone into the business for the purpose of making money." That cleared up that bid. The next liid was from the representative of the Spanish Transatlantique Company, their original bid being, I think, $60 and $80. Q. In the aggregate, how much did that amount to? A. In the aggregate, for the number that were to be transported, about $000,000. I said to him, " We have a lower bid, but the schedule of ships which you have and th(3 facilities which you offer to give us makes it preferable that we give you the contract: l)ut I do not like recommending giving you the bid at a higher price than the other bid we have." He then reduced his figures to $00 for officers and $20 for the enlisted men. [The figures originally taken down were $60 per head for officers, but Major Mills, recorder of the commission, makes the following memorandum: " Spanish Transatlantique Company's bid was $55 for officers instead of $00 for officers."] By General Beaver: Q. That was a drop of $5 for an officer and $10 for an enlisted man? A. Yes, sir; and it relieved us from all medical attendance. In other cases we woiild have had to provide medicines and medical attendants. He assumed that. I submitted the matter to the Secretary of War and recommended that we enter into the contract that night. We did so; a bond for $250,000 was delivered next day, and the transaction was closed. Q. What was the aggregate saving between the two bids— the one which they formerly made and the one in which the contract v^as entered into? A. You mean which company? Q. The Spanish company; the Transatlantique Company, that actually took the bid. What was the difference between their bid and the contract — the aggre- gate difference? General Wii-SON. He wants to get at the difference between the original bid of the Transatlantique Company and the amount at which the contract was let. A. About $220,000. Q. So that, while you could not enter into a contract with the Philadelphia man, you actually saved to the Government about $220,000? A. Yes, sir; we did not come to his figures. His figures were $;}85.00(), and just a little simple arithmetic showed me that his bid was impracticable. He did not know what he was doing, or he would have furnished a service which would have been a disgrace to us. General Wilson. $385,000 for 35,000 men would have been $15.40 per head, and that man could not do it. Q. This transportation. Colonel, included sustenance? A. Yes, sir; it placed the Government in a most advantageous position, for the reason: It was a Spanish line, it assumed all medical attendance, all police attendance, all expenses of that nature, and we felt, as a respected foe. that it was safer for us to place it that way than under the specifications we made for the army ration, so that the practical working was satisfactory from our Department standpoint. We sent an agent there, a former army officer, who spoke Spanish, to supervise the loading of the persons. He checked each man going on board, with a re])resentative of the Spanish company and witli a representative of Gen- eral Toral. We have certificates from these persons. By Colonel Denby: Q. What were the reasons which induced the Government to send these people to Spain? A. I can not say. sir. COL. PRANK J. HECKER. 2791 C^. Why did they not leave it to the Spanish Government to do it? A. I do not know, sir; the terms of the surrender provided for it. That is out- side of uiy ken. By General Beaver: Q. You have enough to do without going into that? A. Yes, sir. Q. What aboiit the combination companies? ^ A. The combination companies bid was a very great disappointment to us — that the large steamship companies from New York should combine — the North German Lloyd, the Hamburg- American, the firm of Sanderson & Co., the Cunard Line. Q. White Star? A. No, sir; they were not in it. By Colonel Denby: Q. Pacific Mail? A. No, sir; three of them were large cattle transportation companies. That they should have combined and made a figure so excessive, and then accompany it with demurrage charges which would have run into hundreds of thousands of dollars, was a great disappointment. They came here to Washington and led us to believe that each one would bid, but the combined bid meant approximately $1,400,000. [Major Mills, recorder of the commission, gives corrected figures as $1,312,915.] And then the unknown quantity, the imknown cost of demun-age, there would have been no telling where it would have led us. The following is the clause relating to demurrage: " Steamers to be dispatched from Santiago de Cuba within forty-eight hours of their reported arrival, or demurrage to be jjaid at the rate of 60 cents per capita per day, passenger capacity. If passengers are on board during siTcli delay, 40 cents additional per capita per day. Same demiirrage rates to be paid if steamer be detained at place of debarkation by quarantine or other causes. Will endeavor to have vessels at Santiago de Cuba between July 30 and August 10, 1898, but desire, if necessary, an extension in time to inchide the entii'e month of August. •' ( Exhibit A. ) By General Beaver: Q. And the actual deal was? A. The actual deal was, I think, .$513,000. Q. About one-third of what the combination price would have cost the Government? A. Yes, sir; just about one-third. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did the companies accept the result of your decision without protest? A. There was a good deal of protest, sir. I was criticised; I was told in New York that the Spanish Transatlantique was owned by the Spanish Government and we were giving the Spanish Government money instead of bullets. I was told that very plainly. Q. Did this Spanish Company enter upon the performance of their contract? A. Yes, sir; it was completely terminated early in September. Q. For the moment I had in mind the evacuation of the Philippines. A. It was all terminated. General Beaver. We have nothing to do with that. By General Wilson: Q. Cohmel, even if this Philadelphia party had been able to give the proper bonds and had been able to furnish the proper vessels to your satisfaction, you still would have advised entertaining this man's bid? 2792 . INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. No, sir. Q. The advertisement provided for army rations? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. The contractors were to furnish that? A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. Yon believed at the time, Colonel, that yoii accepted the hid that nnder all- the circnmstances it was the lowest and best bid of a responsible party? A. Yes, sir. Q. Are yon still of that opiniim? A. I am, sir. Q. In view of the ti'ansaction as it turned out? A. Yes, sir. General Dodge. Any other questions to ask the colonel? General Beaver. That is all. General Dodge. Colonel, yon can make any statement you desire: .itist make it in relation to this or your former testimony. The Witness. Mr. President, may I — this is not in my testimony, but my atten- tion was called yesterday to an article in the New York World of November 4 that I would be very glad to refer to if you will permit me to. General Dodge. You have a jierfect right to. Witness then presented an article dated November 4, which appeared in the New York World, and after permission being accorded by the president, read as follows: "William E. Ryan's statement — Abner's 'influence' promised. " The following statement was made in the presence of witnesses and signed by William E. Ryan, of Washington, D. C: "In the early part of the war with Spain I became interested in trying to dis- pose of transports and dispatch boats to the Government. I came from my home in Washington to New York City and met Mr. Tweedie, of the Tweedie Company, No. 9 Stone street. They are shipowners and brokers. They employed me as their agent to present to the Government for purchase the dispatch boat Wanda. The Tweedie Company also \n\t in my hands to handle th- ferryboat the Nevada which they were then putting in excellent condition. "That was about the end of May or the beginning of June. I was to receive simply a broker's commission if I succeeded in disposing of these boats to the Government. I went back to Washington and presented specifications of both these boats to both the War and Navy Departments. The examination of the Wanda was at once ordered by Assistant Secretary of War Meiklejohn. Assistant Secretary Allen, of the Navy Deimrtment, ordered the examination of the Nevada. " Subseqiiently I was introduced to the firm of Bennett & Walsh, ship brokers. No. 18 Broadway. They gave me the specifications of eight ocean steamers avail- able tis transix)rts. Having made no progi-ess in disposing of the boats, and being in New York City, a very iwomineut lawyer, a personal friend, piit me in com- miinication with a firm of promoters, who, he said, were very active men. " They were Davis & Huber, Room 91, Times Building. I told Messrs. Davis & Huber of the boats that had been put in my hands, and said that if they could assist me in the sale of these boats, if the boats after examination proved accept- able, I would be willing to give them one-half oi the regular legitimate commis- sion which I was to receive. "There and tlien a contract was di-awn up to that effect, and it was signed ami copies retained by both parties. GOL. PRANK J. HECKER. 2793 " ABNER M'KINLEY'S NAME ACiAIN. "Prior to the drawing up of the contract I was assured by Mr. Huber that his firm was in touch with the leading law firm of New York City, with which Abner McKinley. brother of President McKinley, was connected, and that, becaiise of that, there would be little or no difficulty in selling to the Government the boats which had been placed in my hands as agent. I immediately retiirned to Washington after this interview and kept myself posted daily as to the con- ditions that obtained in the BureaiT of Transports, of which Colonel Hecker, the business partner of Secretary of War Alger, was the head. " Some time elapsing, and after a number of telegrams and letters had jiassed l)etween the firm of Davis & Huber and myself, I again came to New York. " I called upon the firm of Davis & Huber and they assured me that progress was being made; that the matter of the sale of my boats to the Government had been placed in the hands of the law firm with which Abner McKinley was connected. " While in New York City on this occasion, I obtained from Bennett & Walsh specifications and necessary data regarding the ocean steamshii>s which they wished to sell to the Gt)vernment. I handed these specifications over to the fu-m of Davis & Huber. They presented them to the War Department. " Aboiit this time I formed the acquaintance of the well-known architect, Mr. Mosher, of No. 1 Broadway. Mr. Mosher told me he had one of the fastest yachts in America, the Marietta, which he had built for Harrison & Moore, general agents of the Delaware and Lackawanna, in New York City. The yacht was in perfect condition and Mr. Moore was willing to sell her for §75,000, although she had cost $125,000, l)ecause he was building a larger yacht to cost §225,000. I was to receive a commission of s5,00U if the Government bought the Marietta, and one-half of this commission was to go to Mr. Mosher. I placed the disposal of this yacht also in the hands of Davis & Huber. " DID NOT ' APPROACH " THE RIGHT MAN. "Again I returned to Washington. Through a prominent Republican I was kept informed as to the condition of things in the Bureau of Transports. I was \)X\t off from day to day with promises made to me by Colonel Hecker and Colonel Bird, both of the Transportation Bureau of the War Department, but nothing came of these promises. "About a week after General Miles had landed at Porto Rico I came to New York City again. I called on the firm of Davis & Huber, to ("ompare notes \vith them. " Davis & Huber then informed me that if they had to go over the same ground again it would be different; that they had found out the one man to approach, and that by the payment of money to this man they could have sold to the Gov- ernment some, if not all, of these vessels.' " This man, they told me, was under Colonel Hecker, in the Bureau of Trans- portation in the Quartermaster's Department. "William E. Ryan." (See Exhibit B.) The Witness. 1 woiild be very glad to know, Mr. President, who this man is. I do not know him; he may have called on me, as other brokers or solicitors did. By General Dodge: Q. Have you made any effort to find him? A. I have only seen this article since yesterday. I only saw this yi'.sterday. I have been out to the country. Governor Woodbury. That was the first thought in my mind — who is William E. Ryan? We would be very glad to call him here as a witness. 2794 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. The Witness. I should he very t>-lad to have a strong talk with this firm of Davis & Hiiher. General Beavek. The difficulty about this is. Colonel, that they did not obtain the contract and they were chagrined that you did not buy this yacht. The Witness. I declined to buy the Marieita. We Avere buying transports. General Beaver. I can see what you want, Colonel. You would like to know the man in your department who could be approached with money. The Witness. There is a direct statement from William E. Ryan that Davis & Huber informed me that they had "foiind out the one man to approach, and that by the payment of money to this man they could have sold to the Govern- ment some, if not all, of these vessels. "" This man, they told me, was under Colonel Hecker, in tlie Bureau of Transportation in the Quartermaster's Department. By Colonel Denby: Q. Colonel, is there any man in your department, to your knowledge, who coiild have been bribed in that wayV A. There is not, sir; and there was no one in tlie Qitartermaster's Department who had, either directly or indirectly, anything to do with the purchasing of ships. There was no one who could have infivienced the sale or have prevented the piir- chase by the Government of a ship. Q. Do you mean to say that you had sole control? A. I mean to say that I had sole control, subject to report to the Secretary of War and his approval, and I came in contact personally with the representatives, and where it was possil)le with the owners, of .ships that were found available. I carried on all the communications in person and not through an intermediate. General Beaver. Major Mills, have we a Washington directory here? Major Mills. No, sir. General Beaver. Can you get one in the building? Major Mills. I will try, sir. The Witness. Mr. President, the statement is made here that Mr. Huber informed William E. Ryan that he was in touch with a leading law firm of New York City in which Mr. Abner McKinley was associated. Mr. Abner McKinley spoke to me only once about ships, and that was a water-carrying ship, for which we did not have any use at that time. I so said to him, and that terminated it; and that was the only time in which Mr. A])ner McKinley spoke to me, and he never addressed me by communication, and 1 had nothing from him respecting the purchase of ships at any time or in any form except in connection with this water-carrying ship. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What part did the firm of which Abner McKinley has been given as a partner take, if any. in the sale of ships to the Government or endeavor to sell sliips to the Government? Did they have any interest in the sale of ships to the Government or endeavor to sell shi^js? A. None at all; as to the transports. By General Beaver: Q. Is it a fact that Abner McKinley has bu.siness relations with a New York law firm? A. I do not know. General Beaver. We liave had .some indefinite information. General Dodge. I would state that I have seen a communication. Wlien we were in New York we liad all these matters before us. I sent a communication to the New York World, stating to them if they liad any evidence in t elation to any fraud or any undue influence or anytliing that would ])e detrimental to the Gov.-vnmeiit in any ((intract made or against any officer of the Army, if they COL. FRANK J. HECKER. 2795 would present the witnesses we would hear that evidence. They sent a, letter in answer to that, not stating whether they had it or had not, bnt stated that it would be ex parte; tliey would not bring it before this commission; therefore we went no further in the matter. It was evidently a letter they did not wish us to use. General Beaver. We would have taken care that it was not ex parte. By General Dodge: Q. The letter was written, I think, because they had not the evidence directly against the officer. Tiie fact of the matter. Colonel, that these people had noth- ing to do with you seems to me to answer it. A. It is pei-haps likely, Mr. President, that Ryan may have called on me. do not, however, recall meeting him. Q. There were none of these ships bought? A. No, sir. Governor Woodbury. Of coxtrse, the complaint is that they did not sell the ships because they did not have the influence. Major Mills reported that there is a William E. Ryan at No. 705 Seventh street NE., Washington. • General Wilson. Does the directory state what the business of that party is? Major Mills. No, sir; it just simply gives his address. By Governor Woodbury: (^. Is that letter written from Washington? A. Yes, sir; and I respectfully request that lie be invited to appear before your board and give some tangible data as shall prove to yoii who the person Avas that was open to money influence. That is the only direct charge that I have seen against myself. I have heard all sorts of stories, but that is the" only charge made against me. Governor Woodbury. You have not read the paiiers. Colonel Denby. That is not against you. By General Beaver: Q. You are responsible for everything in "your office? A, Yes, sir. Colonel Denby. Ryan does not say it of his own knowledge. If Mr. Ryan said there was a man in the War Department who could be bribed, I think it would be entirely proper for us to call him here and ask the question. He states in his letter that " these people have told me."' General Beaver. I think the Colonel's request is perfectly fair. However, that is a question for the commission to decide. General Beaver. If there are any witnesses whom you would like to have called along the line of this examination, we will be glad to consider them if you will give them to us. Exhibit F. J. H., No. 1. December 7, 1898. General Orders. ) , War Department, >• * Adjutant-General's Office, No- 122. ) WdHhingion. Anrjust IS, 189S\ The following order of the War Department of Jiily 18. 1898. is published for the information and guidance of all concerned: '•War Depautment. WaHhinriinii . .lnhi IS. JSns. "A division of transportation is liercby created in the (.^navtermast furnished in i\w summer time. COL. CHARLES H. ALDEN. 2797 Q. We have been given to understand that re(inisiti()n.s had been made for six months' supplies and approved, and that bids had been asked for at the time the war broke out. Is that a fact? A. Yes, sir. Tw^ice a year, in March and Novemljer, I think, circxilars are sent out asking for bids siTfficient to supply the depots for six months in advance, but they of course were based on peace-time wants and not what was to follow. Q. At the time the first volunteer troops came into the field all supplies were on hand, speaking generally? A. I can not recall just when the first Q. Say about the 10th of May. A. Well, we had — I might answer it in this way. It is hard to say how much we had. In the beginning, as soon as war was declared measures were taken to increase the supplies. War was declared, I think, on the 21st of April, but the difference in time was not great, so no considerable amount had been accumulated. Q. Did or did not the Medical Department have supplies sufficient to answer the necessities for the troops, say for two or three months, when such troops were called into the field? Tlie Witness. For 350,000? Dr. Conner. Yes, sir. A. I doubt it very much. I don't think it did. Q. In order to meet the deficiency, was any application made to State authorities for them to furnish State supplies? A. As soon as the call was made for the organization of the regiments, the Surgeon-General telegraphed to the governors of States, asking them to lend their State equipment and supplies on hand until they could be replaced or supple- mented from the United States stores. Q. Was that request acceded to? A. A number of replies came in. I can not tell now, without referring to the files, how many, but my imjiression was— I don't think I saw all the replies — but my information leads me to believe that not a great many States had mucii of an outfit. Q. At what points just after the 10th of May were troops aggregated together in large numbers? A. I can not state. I don't remember now when the volunteers came into Chickamauga. Q. About the 10th of May were there more than two camps— Thomas and Alger? A. And Tampa. Q. Was Tamjia so early as this a receiving depot for the troops? A. I think so, I think the regulars went there and a few volunteers followed them immediately. Q. What orders were issued and what arrangements were made l»y the Sur- geon-General's Office to provide medical supplies at C'amp Thomas and Camp Alger? We will take iip Tampa afterwards. A. They were supi^lied from two different supply depots. As soon as the Sur- geon-General knew that troops were going there — in the first place I had better state that he expected all the regular troops were supplied temporarily at least, and he asked me when troops left their posts that they should take tlieir complete e(iuipments and three months' supplies. Therefore he supposed that the first ti'oops reaching there had a three months' supply to start with. Q. Did they? A. Most of them did. There were very few exceptions. Most of them did. Then, to siipply the wants of volunteer regiments that had not brought anything with them from the States, a number of what were called advance regimental 271)8 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. outtits were gotten up — chests containing medicines and snpplies sufficient for immediate nse, and tluit was done especially because the new medical and surgi- cal (.-liests were not ready until the latter part of May. These advance regimental outfits, containing medicines, instrirments, and miscellaneous tilings, were gotten ready at the depots in St. Louis and New York for the regiments until their regular outfit could be issued to them. Q. Were these to be used on requisitions or sent without requisitions? A. They were sent in so many numbers from St. Louis without requisitions. Q. Were each of the regiments supplied with such e(iuipments? A. The supplying of the regiments was something that was attended to at the camp and I am not able to state what their arrangements were. I presume that must have been done. Q. Was a sufficient amount of medical siipplies sent to Camp Thomas at the beginning to answer the retiuirements of all the troojis that were there? A. That is a pretty hard question to answer. I think sufficient medical sup- plies had been ordered, but there were a good many reasons why their reaching the camp was interfered with. An order might be issued from the Surgeon- General for a large amoiint of supplies, as was done, but there would be time taken in St. Louis in getting that stuff together, so while some of the supi^lies could go at once some were delayed. Then the railroad facilities between St. Louis and the camps, especially the railroad branch road, were insufficient for lirompt delivery and we had reports of delays in the receipt of goods. I think I can answer that the su^jplies ordered were sufficient, but that they were on hand just at the time they were needed, I do not think that that was likely. Q. In the beginning wore these medical supplies issued on requisitions made by regimental officers direct from the Surgeon-General, by the supply depot at St. Louis or New York, or was there early established a branch depot at Chicka- mauga? A. There was established very early at Chickamauga a branch depot. There have been issues direct to regiments. In some cases where regiments were not attached to brigades or divisions, a good many regiments throughout the United States were supjjlied direct; and if a regiment made an application direct, whore it was seen that supiilies would be delayed in reaching them by sending back the requisitions to go through the regular channels, it has been the practice to issue direct, but we would tell them that hereafter they must go through the regular channels of supply. Q. To what extent was that sui^jly dei^ot supi^lied with medicine from the beginning? A. I hardly know to what extent. Q. It was not long before there were thirty and more thousand men on the ground, reaching, as near as we have been informed, 5(1. 000. Was there at any time in the supply depot at Chickamauga a sufficient amount of medicines and medical suj^plies to answer the requirements for that body of troops? A. Yes, sir. We had occasionally reports by officers giving the amount they had on hand when they wanted more, and they were undoubtedly a very large part of the time amijly suijplied; of course I will not say of every individual article, but after a few weeks there were ample supplies. Q. How often did you receive reports fiom that depot? A. I rememl)er only two reports giving detailed amounts of suj>plies on hand, but it might be proper for me to say here that the Surgeon-General did not depend upon rei^orts or rec^uisitions, but guarded against the possibility of their being out of supi^lies. Supplies were sent there withoiit requisitions. Q. Are we to understand that only twice the office was informed of the amount of medical stores on hand? COL. CHARLES H. ALDEN. 2799 A. It may have been more than twice. I only remember twice. They were given the amount on hand on requisitions. (^. In the beginning, were all the hosintal stores, medicines, etc., taken away from the regiments and sent to the division hospitals? A. I can not speak from knowledge as to what t(3ok place in the camp. I think it was done very early; not all the supplies, but one or more of the surgeons, if they had brought any considerable amount of supplies with them — I am not stat- ing this from my own information Q. If you will give us what information you have — it is the only testimony we can get. A. Speaking especially of Camp Alger, I know more about it. I understood early in the organization of the camp the division hospital was started and some of the regiments became very irregirlarly supplied. Some of the supplies the regiments needed and some they did not, and some of those supplies were taken for the division hospital. Q. For the present we will consider Camp Thomas. There are certain facts in regard to that I want to ascertain, if possible. As I understand, the supply depot was organized very early. A. I do not know the date now. Q. About what date were the division hospitals organized? A. That I do not know. Q. Prior to the 1st of June? A. I coirld not say. Q. As soon as these division hospitals were organized, was it not the intention of the Department that all medical sui)plies for regiments should bo issued through the division hospital? A. Well, it was the theory, but I don't believe it was carried out. My impression is the regiments were directed to the supply depot at Camj) Thomas. Q. Was it or was it not necessary that all requisitions for sui)i)lies for the regi- mental hospitals had to go through the chief surgeon of the division or corps for apijroval? A. I am unable to say, sir; I do not know what the regulations were. Q. Do you know in what x)roportion articles asked for were shipped, speaking generally? A. No, sir; I do -not. Q. One of the inspectors-general announced that he had occasion to examine the requisitions from the division hospitals, and he found that only 40 per cent of the articles requisitianed for were approved by the chief surgeon. Do you know anything about that matter? A. Do you mean that they were crossed out? Q. Yes, or lessened in amount. There was very constant complaint from regi- mental officers and their division hospital officers that medical supplies at that camp were very limited in amount and were obtainable only with much difhculty. Can you., from your knowledge as the officer having charge of the medical sup- plies — can you state whether or not there were ample sui)plies there, or ordered to be there, at all times; the ordinary articles on the supply table? A. I can say so after the first difficulty in transportation was overcome. Q. At about what time? A. When I say all times and all articles, there may be individual cases — I am speaking in a general way. I can hardly answer that definitely without looking at our records. My absolute knowledge or intimate acquaintance only extends to the relations of the Surgeon-General, so far as the sixpply department is con- cerned, to the sirpply dejiot. Q. Do you mean the one at the camp, or New York and St. Louis? 2800 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. At the camp, and of course the supply depot at St. Louis. Of course it is a subject which greatly interested me. I have talked with the officers coming from there and I have read what I have seen in the newspapers, and I can not help but form an opinion in regard to things; but I do not know whose hands the requisi- tions of the camp had to go through, what their ideas or regulations were as to reductions. There were a good many elements in that. If you desire to have my idea, I will speak about it. I have covered that fully in my report. Q. Your own reports, then, are sufficiently numerous or definite to show whether or not there were at ordinary periods sufficient medical supplies at the depot at Chickamauga? A. From the general way that requisitions were filled, we had no reason to believe there was not a supply. Q. Do you know whether any reports came to your office late in May, or in June, or in July that there was much deficiency of medical supplies at Camp Thomas? A. Very few reports came to this. office in regard to the matter. There were some. I could not speak jiositively as to persons and days without referring to records, but they did not refer to the supply dei)ots. The difficulties, so far I knew of them, were with the regimental surgeon in the final sui^i^ly of them and to the hospitals — the regimental hospitals — and regimental surgeons. Q. Was there not such a force of brigade surgeons, division surgeons, corps and chief medical officers of the camp — was not this a force sufficiently great to enable every man to be instrticted in his duty how to get the supplies? A. I don't think so. Q. Why were not officers enough sent down there that these men might be instructed? A. I had not the disposition of medical officers, but it seems to me the reason was there was not medical force enough sent down. Q. Do you or not know that applications in a very considerable number were, made throughout the country, tenders of service, that were not accepted by the Department? A. I do not know. Q. The Surgeon-General would know that fact, T suppose? A. Yes, sir. Q. The only evidence we have been able to secure shows that there was a great lack of medical supplies, varying from time to time, but always during the whole existence of Camp Thomas, so far as the hospitals were concerned, and the regi- mental h()si)itals as they were organized; and the rejiort that has came to us is, that if a man hustled, as they said, and went down, he could get his suijplies, but if he was not a jjusher he could not get them; and even when he was trying hard to get them, he did not always succeed in finding them at the depot. Do you Imow anything about the facts with reference to this? A. I do not know, but I have heard the same report that you state, but I know nothing al)out it. Q. Did you have any medical inspector to look after these matters? A. The chief surgeons of the camps and corps, the divisions and brigades, were expected to act as inspectors; I suppose. Q. Exi>ected to, but did they? A. I can not say from personal knowledge, but I believe the inspections were not as minute as it is desirable they should be. Q. You are familiar with the workings of the Surgeon-General's OfficT. Why was there not established a medical inspector's corps, as existed in the war of 1861. whose sole duty it was to go about and investigate just these matters? A. I can not say in regard to that; that is a matter for Congress. Q. Was it prevented by an act of Congress? COL. CHARLES H. ALDEN. 2801 A. There was no provision for it in the organization of the corjis. Q. Could not medical officers be detailed to act on this duty as well as any- other? A. They could be if the men had been available. Init the corps was very short, owing to the amount of work they had to do. Q. How large a portion of the force was not in the fieldV A. I could not say. Q. Approximately? A. The matter of medical officers is under the direct charge of the Surgeon- General, and I know of no details connected with it. Q. Were any efforts made thi-ough you, in charge of the supply depot, to see that that camp was thoroughly supplied with medicines other than the answering, approving, and forwarding of retiuisitions"? A. I said, I think, a few moments ago that the Surgeon-General did not depend iijion requisitions, but ordered supplies sent in advance according to his ideas of what they ought to have. Q. How soon did the office begin to send supplies in advance for the men? A. I could only say by reference to my reports. It was very early after the arrival of the troops at the camp, but how soon these supplies got there I can not say. At first there was a great delay in the transportation of supplies from St. Louis to Chickamauga. Q. We have had testimony that at the division hospitals, after a very consider- able length of time, there was almost an entire lack of hospital furniture, bed- pans, thermometers, and, if you please, hypodermic syringes, and things of that sort. Was there any reason why these things could not have been there? A. I mean to say this is the first I have known of that. These are articles that can be bought in the market, and if their wants had been made known to the Surgeon-General I think their wants would have been supplied. Q. Was not the Department aware of this fact, of the lack of thermometers and hypodermic syringes, not only at this hospital, but others? A. Not as far as I am concerned. I don't remember that there was any special lack of these articles. They occasionally could not get supplies. They were slow in arriving, but I do not remember that these articles were particularly difficult to get or were particularly short. Q. It has been testified, among other things, at Montauk, when the female nurses arrived there, there were practically no hypodermic syringes in the place and no thermometers, and they had to supply thermometers themselves? A. I can not understand how it is, because the officer in charge at Montauk Point had authority to draw on the medical officer in charge of the depot in New York without limit. Q. Why, of all the supplies that could be purchased— the orders were given that they should be purchased— why were not things on hand when wanted? Take, for example, so small an article as strychnine. There has been, I suppose, a dozen, perhaps forty, complaints from medical officers we have examined that strychnine could not be gotten at one time or another. Is there any reason why strychnine could not be pxirchased? A. None whatever: and every re. Q. If the Surgeon-General's Department had reported to the Secretary of War that a transport was necessary, or it would be prudent to have a transport to load with ice and delicacies for the sick and witli medical stores and api)liances to accompany the Shafter expedition, would he not have granted thf recjuest? PRIVATE JAMES E. SMITH. 2809 A. I suppose he would; but this ought to be said— that it was supposed General Shatter's chief medical officer and he himself would ask for what they wanted to provide for their assistance. Q. Is it not the duty of the Siu-geon-General's Department to initiate any such movements or to furnish what you would call the foresight when such an expedi- tion is about to take place? A. The Surgeon-General thought he was using his foresight in sending supplies on his own motion. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Would it be necessary to ask the Secretary of War for authority to fit up a ship? A. Yes, sir. Q. Couldn't he apply to the Quartermaster-General for the ship? A. The Quartermaster-General can only do it by authority of the Secretary of War. By Dr. Conner: Q. Do you know why there was delay in the inspecting of the hospital ship Relief and her fitting? A. I don't know why that was. Q. The President finally directed it himself? A. The Surgeon-General fully expected the Relief ship would be on hand with supplies and everything necessary for the sick. By Colonel Denby: Q. Who did the Surgeon-General demand that ship of— the Secretary of War or the Quartermaster's Department? A. The Secretary of War, because the Quartermaster-General could not act without the sanction of the Secretary of War. I saitl the Secretary of War, for I know in applications of similar character they are often addressed to the Secre- tary of War. Washington, D. C, December 7, ISDS. TESTIMONY OF PRIVATE JAMES E. SMITH. Private James E. Smith appeared before the commission, and was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By General Beaver: A. Mr. Smith, mil you kindly give us your name and the company and regiment in which yoii served during the war with Spain, and the length of your service. A. James E. Smith, private. Troop A, Sixth Cavalry. Q. When did you enlist and how long did you serve? A. March 17; discharged September 24. Q. Why were you discharged? A. At my own request. Q. Did you enlist as a private or newspaper cori-espondent? A. Private. Q. To carry on newspaper work? A. No, sii ; merely to fight for my country. Q. Why did you to wish be discharged? A. Because I did not want to be a soldier in time of i)eace. Q. You took it for granted there would be peace? A. I felt that way. 2810 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Where did you serve? A. Served at Fort Myer, Chickamauga Park, Tampa, and through the campaign in Cuba; about four or five different camps. Q. Your service at Fort Myer and Chickamauga and Tampa were all prepara- tory for your embarking for Cuba? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there any special instance during your service at either of these places that you wish to speak of? A. No, sir; there has been nothing in any of them. Q. You remember the vessel upon which you went to Cuba? A. The Tito Grande. Q. How many troops were aboard her? A. The Sixth Cavalry and part of the Third, I remember; I don't think the whole of the Third — one squadron, I believe. Q. What kind of accommodations had you? A. Wooden bunks, and I thought it very good. Q. Had you your full supply of travel rations with you? A. We were suj)plied with travel rations on board the ship. Q. When and where did you land? A. Landed on the 23d of June at Daiquiri. Q. Did you have anything of your travel rations over at the time you landed? A. We had a lot of rations over and we took three days' field rations. Q. How were you supplied with food during the campaign in Cuba — your company? A. We had plenty. I have given a lot away to some volunteers. Q. Was that true as to most of the regulars, so far as you know, that they had what they wanted and they had something over to give to others? A. That is true. I have seen as many as dozens who had volunteers around our camp taking as many as two meals a day. Q. They came to you because of the shortage in their regiments? A. Well, on one occasion there were some men of these volunteers who said they had not had anything for two days; that they were siipplied with three dajs' rations on landing at Siboney — I think that is where they landed — but they made a night march and it was wet and the ration got heavy and they discarded it and of course they had to go without rations. Q. And you helped them? A. Yes, sir. Q. What did you observe of the conditions in that respect while in Cuba, in your own command and in others? A. I have always found plenty of rations in my own command, and the day of the fight we had to discard our rations, and the Cubans came along and incked them up, but we had rations brought to us about 9 o'clock that night. Q. What fight was that? A. San Juan, on July 1. Q. Were you in that fight? A. I was in that fight. Q. You got food that same evening? A. That same evening aboiit i) o'clock. Q. How many days' rations were you supposed to have the day of the fight? A. We had three days' rations issued the day before. Q. So you had rations the day of the fight and the day succeeding the fight? A. Yes, sir; the day of the .-3d. We had rations including June 30. and three days' rations for the next three days. Q. And notwithstanding the fact that you discarded it before^ going into the fight, your commissary brought you up rations that same night? -PRIVATE JAMES E. SMITH, 2811 A. Yes, sir; that same night. All we missed that day was dinner. Of course, I did not care for it, anyhow. We had plenty of other amnsement there. Q. The excitement of the fight kept you up? A. We did not feel like eating. Q. Did you have plenty of ammunition for the fight? A. Plenty. Q. What did you have during that campaign in the way of shelter? A. We had shelter tents, and part of the time we had — after the fighting was over, we had the Sibley tent. Q. Do yoiT remember when the Sibley tent was brought up? A. Sometime in July, late, i^robably about the 20th. Q. Before the Sibley tents were brought up and you were dependent upon your shelter tents for shelter, how did yoii arrange for your shelter — did you and a companion button your pieces of shelter tents together or did four go together? A. Two. Q. What kind of shelter did that make for you? A. It managed to keep us dry. Q. Do you remember how those rations were brought up to you on the 1st of July; did you see how they were brought? A. They were brought up on liack trains of pack mules, and the regiments that they were served to were the Third — there were two stpiadrons, I think four troops — two of the Third. I was also at Montauk Point. Q. How long did you remain in Cuba? A. From June 23, to August 7. Q. Where did you go from there? A. Montauk Point. Q. When did you land at Montauk? A. Arrived on the 13th and landed on the 14th. Q. How long did you remain at Montauk Point? A. Until September 8. Q. What did you find when yoiT got there in the way of preparation for your camp? A. We had tents — A wall tents, I think they call them. Q. Already put up? A. Already put up and floors in them. Q. Water supply in the camp? A. At that time we were using lithia water. I coiild not see what source it came from. That is what we drank for the first five or six days. Q. Bottled water? A. Yes, sir. Q. How were you provided as to clothing during the campaign? A. I always had enough toward the last. For about four or five days I was bad off for shoes, but I got them. Q. Where was it that you got your new shoes — in Cuba? A. In Cuba. Q. Were jou sick during your term of service? A. I was taken sick at Montauk. It was when I was there I got malaria and was sick a few days. Q. Did you go to the hospital? A. No, sir. Q. Sick in quarters? A. Sick in quarters. Q. Did the regimental surgeon look after you — were you on the sick list? A. Yes, sir; I was on the sick list several days. 28 12 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. What did he give yon? A. Medicine: and finally I asked him for a sick leave, which was granted me. I told him the climate did not agree with me, and I said if I was sent to Wash- ington I would get better, which happened so. I came here and have been better ever since. Q. What is your nationality — are you an American born? A. English and French; yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. Did you correspond with your paper all the time? A. Yes, sir. Q. What paper were you writing for? A. Different papers — Washington papers. (^. And all through this campaign you Avrote? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you give a fair account of things as they happened? A. I gave a fair account of things as they happened; I can get clippings to use if necessary. Washington. D. C, December S, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. Surgeon-General Sternberg then appeared before the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By Dr. Conner: Q. General Sternberg, will you be kind enough to tell us your name, rank, and your occupation during the war with Spain? A. George Miller Sternberg, Surgeon-General United States Army, in charge of the Medical Department of the Army during the war with Spain. Q. General, we have received a nximber of printed documents from the reports on hospital ships, reijorts on nurses, reports on medical supplies, and reports on the Hospital Corps of the Army; these reports that we have received, are you ready to have us accept them as being correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us in what condition, in th(; matter of equip- ment, the Medical Department of the Army was at the time of the declaration of tlie war with Spain? A. The Medical Department of the Army was well equipped to take care of an army of 25,000 men. We had in OTir supply depot only such supplies as were an absolute necessity for current use for the year — our appropriations have been cut down from year to year. The policy of the Government has been economy; and I have endeavored to comply with that policy by reducing expenditures and my reasonable estimates were very lai-gely reduced by Congress; they were for the last fiscal year. Dr. Conner. May I interrupt you one moment? I am called out for a mimite. Q. At what time, General, were you able to begin making preparations for the demands of the new forces? A. I commcmced preparations, involving no expense, as soon as there was a prospect of war. I immediately commenced prei)aring models of the field SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2813 chests — the full fiekl equipment for troops to be engaged in active operations. I was not satisfied with our field medical eqiiipment and had new medical chests made according to my view. I spoke to the Secretary with reference to the situ- ation of the Medical Department and as to whether I was justified in making purchases in view of the possibility of war, and the policy was that I should wait. I had no authority and, indeed, no money, until Congress had made the appropriation, for making any special preparations. Q. With respect to the personnel of the Army — were you able to make any changes in that prior to the declaration of war? A. The personnel of the Medical Department of the Army was reduced about the time I was appointed Siirgeon-General, in 1893 — against my earnest protest and that of several general officers in the Army. Congress gave us back during the last of the session before the war the number that had been cut off (15 assist- ant surgeons), but when the war broke out we did not have these — we simi^ly had authority, so that there were 15 vacancies to be filled; and while the number authorized by law was 193, we had those and quite a number of other vacancies to be filled, and quite a number of medical officers were sick, so that the corps for practical purposes was even much less than authorized by Congress. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us how the Medical Corps of the Army is increased; how the men appointed in the service are selected'? A. The medical officers of volunteers are appointed by the President, largely upon my recommendation. Q. I refer now to the regular service. A. After an examination. The man must be less than 29 years of age; must be a graduate of a legalized medical college; must have at least one year's experience in a hospital, and he must pass a very rigid examination before a proper medical board. Q. Was any medical examination made at the declaration of the war or soon after? A. We had a board in session at that time. Afterwards we had a lx)ard to fill vacancies. Q. How many appointments were made as the result of investigations and meetings held by that board? A. I would have to refer to the official documents. My recollection is lo, but I won't be jjositive about that. Q. Those men of the Regular Army, I suijpose, were scattered all over the country, but as soon as it became evident to your mind that war was imminent, what arrangements were made as respects the detailing of those officers or certain of them for the more important positions to be occuitied? A. When war was declared the regular troops were at once rushed from their stations to camps, and the medical officers at those stations, as a riile, accompanied them in the field, and other medical officers were detailed wherever possible to go with the regular troops. Then, of our senior medical officers, on my recommenda- tion, 5 were ai)pointed chief surgeons of corps and were assigned to five different army cordis; a large number — 36, 1 think — were, by my recommendation, assigned to duty as brigade and division surgeons. I considered it very important that we should have with the volunteer troops, as far as possible, exiierienced medical officers. In this respect my only regret was that we did not have enough to fill them all. Q. I say, by the President? A. The law calling out the volunteers made provision for a chief surgeon to each army corps, one chief to each division, and one brigade surgeon for each brigade, and I asked immediately for the appointment of these men. The appoint- ments were very ijromiitly made. 2814 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Were those men who were appointed— were any of the; volunteer appoint- ments made after examination, or without examination? A. None of them were made after examination. The fact is, we had no medi- cal officers available for examining boards, and the fact that I proposed to select only men who were well qualified led me to think, under the circumstances, that it was best not to wait for an examination, and I did not ask for one. Q. Do you remember how many brigade surgeons were appointed under that headV A. I woiild have to I'efer to the documents in my office. Q. Speaking generally? A. Generally, I should say jjrobably 75. Q. Was it or was it not necessary that a large number of contract physicians 1)0 employed without any preliminary examinations? A. It was. At one time we had as many as 650. There were urgent calls for them at Santiago and elsewhere, and these calls were so frequent and so urgent that I had to fill them promptly. Q. These men were appointed by you and contracts given them l)y you, and was each man properly recommended to you? A. I insisted upon professional indorsements, and endeavored to i)rocure them in each case, but if you wish me to go on Dr. Conner. Yes, jilease. A. I would say the very best professional indorsements sometimes lead to dis- appointment. I have had men come to me who have had admirable letters and of whom I expected a great deal, but when they came before me I was not satisfied with them. Q. Speaking generally, how did the contract surgeons answer the expectations you had? A. As a rule they did remarkably well. We endeavored to get men who had only been out of a medical school for a few years. I did not v/ish them to get their experience at the expense of the soldiers. They were to be men who had hospital experience. I selected men from 30 to 40 years of age who had hospital experience, and I may say in that connection that I had a largo number of appli- cations for contracts from men who had served during the last war and almost invariably I put those on what I may call my reserve list. I declined to give them contracts for the reason that in my opinion men who had been old enough to serve during the last war had passed the time for active professional work in the Army. If I had known that our troops were to remain in permanent camps in this coun- try I think it would have been — and it was — a mistake that we did not have more men who had had experience during the war, as that experience would have been of great value in our large camps; but I used my best judgment. Many of those men were necessarily past the age for active work, and almost invariably their applications were put on the reserve list. Q. As soon as it became known to you that permanent camps were a fact, did you or did you not call upon the men on this reserve list? A. Not to any considerable extent, because, as a matter of fact, a great many of the contracts were made in those camps by the chief surgeons. I had to give authority to make them at Montauk Point and Camp Thomas and elsewhere. A great many of the contracts were not made by me. I did n( )t know that they were permanent camps until the time passed and the sickness developed so rapidly. I adhered to my principle to get comparatively young men, not only for the reason that I have given, but for the reason that young men who have graduated recently are perhaps more acquainted with the progress of medicine, and I thought they were more valuable for such work as we required. Q. Continuing the subject of the personnel of the Medical Department for a moment, how large a force of medical officers were you able to send with the corps commanded by General Shafter? SURGEON-GENEKAL STERNBERG. 2815 A. Thirty-six medical officers — very much more than a fair proportion— 36 med- ical officers of the Regular Army. The volunteer regiments had their comple- ment as allowed by law— that is, one surgeon and two assistant surgeons. Q. Of these 30 surgeons, how many were capable of administrative and profes- sional work ? A. There was a chief surgeon, who was for administrative work, and a chief sur- geon of each division, who, under ordinary circumstances, was for administrative work, but who was expected to give assistance in the care of the wounded in emergencies. Q. Of the brigade siirgeons, so called, appointed by the President, what propor- tion of them were assigned to ward duty ? A. There were quite a number assigned to general hospitals, and some were assigned to the division field hospitals. When a brigade surgeon or a division surgeon was available, after his appointment by the President, I asked for his orders and assignment, asking him to report to the commanding general of the corps for assignment. I did not assign men directly to brigades or hospitals of divisions, but they were to be assigned according to the commanding general's best judgment after consultation with his chief siirgeon. Q. Do you know of any instance in which the recommendations of the chief surgeons were not carried out ? A. I do not recollect any. Q. The contract and assignment was made by the chief surgeon of the corps? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there anything in the rank which rendered it improper for them to serve in the division hospitals ? A. Not in the least. Q. Did you or did you not have complaints made to you or your chief surgeons for such assignments? A. I did. There were several of these gentlemen who thought it was beneath their dignity to serve at the division hospitals, and in one instance the qxiestion was submitted to me from Camp Thomas through the Adjutant-General's Office. My understanding was that the commanding general of the army corps could detach any officer from his regiment or assign any medical officer to such duty as he thought proper. Q. As I understand you, the volunteers have a surgeon and two assistants? A. Yes, sir. Q. How was it as respects the regulars? A. The regulars had what they could get. It was absolutely impossible to give them a siirgeon and two assistants. Q. As a rule there was more than one regular officer attached to a regular regiment? A. I think, as a rule, there were two. It was my intention that there should be two, and my details to the corps were made with that intention. Q. Do you remember whether any had only a single medical officer? A. I would have to refer to the chief surgeon's report. Q. Would it or would it not be practicable to have relieved a considerable number of the medical officers, of the Regular Army especially, of office work — administrative work — and assign them to hospital work? A. It would not have been possible. I have been embarrassed in my own office and elsewhere by the scarcity of medical officers. Q. Just in that connection I want to ask you whether or not it would not have been possi])le to have had a large part of the work in hospitals done by line officers detailed for such purpose? A. One line officer in each hospital could be very useful, and should be detailed as quartermaster and commissary. I don't see what else a line officer could do. 2816 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Is it or is it not a fact that a large number of the surgeons in charge of hos- pitals were doing work in signing furloughs, in making out reports, etc.? A. Signing various papers required. Q. Would it not have been perfectly proper to have had all the furloughs done by a line officer? A. I think that might be done. Q. If it could not have been done by line officers, would it not have entailed extra work on the part of the medical officers? A. Only that of signing furloughs, because the filling of them out is done by a clerk, and the medical officer would have to decide upon them, so I do not see the necessity for any extra wcjrk. Q. In the hospitals where this difficulty arose, would it not have been practi- cable to have appointed a board of officers to conduct an examination and desig- nate the individiials to attend to this? A. Quite so; as a rule that has been practiced. Q. Was that so from the beginning, or when? A. That pertained to the direct administration of the several hospitals, and I could have no knowledge of it unless it was reported to me. Q. The numbers of these reports are not at present in yoiir mind, if any such reports were made? A. If you will just permit me to say. that during this rush, from the time the war commenced until now, I have been so overwhelmed with work which seemed to require my personal attention that even the reading of reports has often been impossible. They come in and they go to the sanitary division, and even though I read them rapidly, to retain the data in my mind is something beyond my power. Q. One (luestion. So far as respects reports being made to your office, were the regimental surgeons capable or otherwise? A. Good, bad, and indifferent. Q. Was any effort made to rid the service of the bad or indifferent? A. Not to my knowledge; that did not come within my power. Q. So far as it was done it was done by somebody else? A. I have not heard of any dismissals for incompetency. Q. At what time was it decided that division hospitals should be organized? (No answer.) By Governor Woodbury: Q. Was not a board of officers, consisting of one regular officer and perhaps two physicians from each State, appointed, who examined these applicants for appointment? A. On my recommendation, after knowing that the volunteers would l)e mus- tered into service, all medical officers were brought before a board to consist of one regular officer and two physicians detailed by the governors of the States, and such boards were constituted in every State. By Dr. Conner: Q. So far as the work was done by these boards, was it satisfactory or other- wise? A. I think it varied very much — satisfactory in some States; not so satisfactory in others. Q. Do you know of any instance in which the action of tlie regular officer of the board was in ojjposition to the action of the other officers selected? A. It might well have been Avithout my Imowing it. Q. At what time. General, was it determined to establish division hospitals? A. It was determined very soon after the outbreak of the war, but I can not SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2817 give you the date; an order to that effect was published soon after the troops were brouglit togethei' in the large camps. Q. Was the idea of having division rather than regimental hospitals a new one or was it a plan that had been acted upon beforeV A. It was a plan which had been determined upon during our civil war, and after experience it was found to be a desirable one. Q. For what reasons were division hospitals thought to be preferable to regi- mental hospitals? Q. In the first place, for a military reason — that a regiment having a regimental hospital is not in a good position for active service, as, when that regiment is ordered to be moved, it is tied up to its regimental hospital and can not move with it, therefore the regimental hospital is left behind when the regiment goes away. Another reason is that when you have cases of contagious diseases, like typhoid fever, among the soldiers of the regiments, if there is any neglect to disinfect, the result is that the disease is carried about the camp and you are likely to get up a camp infection and an epidemic. For that reason, and in the case of typhoid fever especially, and measles, mumps, and other infectious diseases, it is apt to spread through the regiment. Another reason is that it is much easier to take care of («ie well-organized division hospital than of nine regimental hospitals. You uuiy select your best men for administrating the affairs of the hospital and your best men for duty in the wards, and if the division moves away you have a completely organized hospital left to care for the sick. Q. "Was it contemplated in the original j)lan that division hospitals should be practically permanent hospitals, or was it intended as an intermediate state between regimental and general hospitals? A. The intention was that the hospitals should be intermediate and that the seriously sick, who were going to be sick for some time, should be taken to a general hospital. I have endeavored to carry out this plan, but when we had siich a prevalence of typhoid fever we found it was injurious to the patients to move them during the active stage of the disease, and that only those in the very early stages, or those who were convalescent, could be moved a distance by train without injury; therefore it became necessary to care for them in the division hospitals. Q. In the plan originally formed, was any plan made for general hospitals? A. At the very oiitset one was established at Key West, with 1,000 beds. I sup- posed that the Arniy was going to Cuba, and that was the nearest point where we could take care of the sick. Another was established at Fort Thomas, near Cin- cinnati; another was established at Fort Myer, here, to take care of the sick at Camp Alger, and subsequently others were established. Q. Taking the reverse order of things, from what source were the medical offi- cers drawn that were placed in charge of and in service in the general hospitals establi-shed? A. I placed medical officers of the Regular Army in charge of our regular gen- eral hospitals. Q. And the assistants? A. Some assistant surgeons of the Army were detailed, and I generally ti'ied to have one assistant surgeon of the Army at each hospital, in addition to the surgeon in charge. There were some brigade and division surgeons who had been appointed and who did not seem especially adapted for field service. Q. Were those general hospitals that you speak of in active operation prior to the 1st of July? A. Oh, yes, sir. Q. What was the effect of such detail of regimental hospitals upon the med- ical status, so to speak, of the regiments themselves? 7833 — VOL. (» 27 2818 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAli WITH SPAIN, A. It, ;is I iuii inf(n-me(T, iTuciuently k-t't l)ut one lucdicHl officer in eliart^e, which I considered in;idc(iu;it(\ and as soon us my attention was called to the matter, I retiuested the Secretary of War to issue an order that at least two medical officers should he left ^vith a regiment. Q. Do you remember what time that was? A. It was not until after my trip made in the early part of Septendxir in com- pany with the Quartermaster-General. Q. Prior to this time the regiments were left with a single medical officer? A. So I understand. Q. Do you think it wise to leave 1,800 men to the ciu-e of a shigle medical officer? A. No, sir. Q. Would there or would there not have been any difficulty to secure such a number of men for such positions as would have left the medical organization intact? A. The men could have been secured earlier by making application to me for assistants sooner. Q. Were such applications early made to you? A. I do not remember any such application being made to me. Q. Do you remember how early the applications l)egan to come in? A. I could not give you the dates. General McCook. Dr. Conner, will you kindly ask tlie General from what sotirce he received his authority to employ contract surgeons? Question repeated by Dr. Conner. A. Congress, at my request, foreseeing that the medical officers would be inad- equate, authorized the Surgeon-General to appoint as many acting assistant sur- geons as he deemed advisable, at a compensation not to exceed $150 per month. By Governor Woodbury: Q. So the appointments were entirely under your control— made by yourself? A. The act of Congress says, "by aiithority of the Secretary of War the Sur- geon-General may,'' etc. The authority given me has been general. Q. And that left it entirely in accordance with yoiTr views as to the necessary number to be ai^pointed? A. Yes, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. Did you or did you not, General, get early reports from Camp Thomas that - the arrangements that had been carried out establishing division hospitals were causing trouble in the regiments? A. I do not remember how early. I did not get any reports that made any great impression upon me until I went myself. I would have to look over the reports. Q. Do you not now know whether there; was a strong opposition to this plan on the part of the regimental officers? A. There was a very strong opposition on the part of the colonels and the regimental surgeons; there seemed to be a desire «m their part to keep their sick with them. Q. In the various division hospitals were the sick of tlu; different brigades put together or kept separate? A. That was not done, as a general thing. In some camps, when I made my inspection, I found they were endeavoring to do it, but it was not done as a rule. Q. What was the expectation during the months of May and June in your office, as respects the movements of troops? Was it understood that they were to remain for any considerable length of time where they were then or would soon move away eepiipped for active operations? SURGEON-GENERAL .STERNBERG. 2819 A. The division hospitals were expected to move with the troops. Q. What was the uiaximuiu capacity for each division hosj^ital? A. My recollection is that the plan at the outset was that the division hospitals shoiTld have 250 beds. Q. Did or did not the Surgeon-General's Office receive reports frcjin Camp Thomas at an early day, or we will say hy the middle of July, that the medical hospitals were being overcrowded? A. By that time we knew that they were crowded. Q. When you found that the number was exceeded, did you or did you not change over, in fact, by your order, the statiis of the division hospital from division hospitals to general hospitals? A. The division hospitals at Camp Thomas were turned into general hospitals. Q. What was the law or regulations respecting the control of division hospitals; who had control over them? A. The commanding officer of the division was directly in charge of everything connected with his division, and naturally his chief surgeon was in more direct control, acting by his authority. Q. Have you or have you not seen an order directing that division hospitals should not be under the commanding officers? A. Not officially; but I have been informed that such an order had been issued. Q. What would be the effect of an order of that sort; would it relieve the commanding officer of all control over the hospital? A. Such an order would relieve the commanding officer of control and place the control upon the commanding officer of the corps. Q. He was practically in charge of these division hospitals? A. Yes, sir. Q. Turning back to Camp Thomas, I ask you who made the recommendations for the division hospitals to be made general hospitals? A. I did. The division hospitals there were made general hospitals — one called the. Sternberg General Hospital and the other called the Leiter; the latter was under my orders from the very first. It was reported to me by the chief surgeon that this hotel, now used as the Leiter Hospital, was admirably adapted to mak- ing a general hosjjital, and I accepted it from Mrs. Leiter and at once took charge. The Sanger and Sternberg hospitals were organized as division hosi)itals and then made general hospitals and placed under my orders. Q. And then you did not assume the direct charge of the original division hospitals? A. I had no control of them. It was entirely out of my control or even my power to manage those division hospitals. By Colonel Sexton ; Q. But it was not out of your power to send assistants? A. I sent assistants when they were asked for. I sent the assistants to report to the commanding general. It was necessary for them to ask, and I endeavored promptly to supply the assistants asked for. By Dr. Conner: Q. Were the demands for such assistants made promptly by the chief sui'geon of the corps? A. There is no doubt that the sickness increased so rapidly at Camp Thomas and some other places that perhaps they were all surprised by it and that their requisitions for medical assistants and supplies did not .really anticipate what was coming, and it is natural perhaps, when they had so many cases to attend to. and while they perhaps thought and hoped that things would be better; the result was that they did not always ask for what they should have done. :!^820 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN.. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Ill such a case as that, ought yon not have had the foresight to have sent 'issistantsV A. It is a iiretty difficult matter, with a chief surgeon in each camp, who is directly responsible, for me to exercise foresight over the camps in all parts of the country. I exercised the foresight of establishing a supply depot and send- ing a supply officer there, directing him to make all necessary requisitions. By Governor Woodbury: Q. You know there was only one assistant surgeon to each regiment? A. I knew that later. I know that as soon as that fact was brought to my attention I made contracts with the best men that I could find. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was it or was it not to be expected that a medical (jfficer (jf long experience in the service would reasonably expect, when typhoid fever was prevalent in a body of 80,000 to 60,000 men, that that typhoid fever would extend? A. That would be a reasonable expectation; yes. Q. Was that view, so far as you officially know, entertained by the chief sur- geon at Camp Thomas? A. So far as I officially know, I do not remember that I have any record showing that. Q. It woiTld appear that the disease .existed at an early date, that it would slowly but steadily increase, and, after a time, become an epidemic at Camii Thomas. Is or is not that the history of typhoid fever within large camps, and that, unless i^roper steps are taken to arrest the epidemic, it becomes general? A. Yes, sir. Q. What steps do you.asSurgeon-Greneral, consider necessary in such a case? A. An absolute camp sanitation, the i^erfect policing of the camp, the isolation of the patients as far as practicable, and the disinfecting of all excreta. Q. Would the carrying out of a jilan of that sort lie or be in the hands of the medical officers or the commanding general? A. So far as the sanitary policing is concerned, all the medical officers can do is simply to recommend; they have nothing to do with the execution of necessary meastires, but they can simply call attention to the necessity for the same. Q. Then, if these necessary measures were not taken, how much responsibility would rest upon the chief medical officer of the corps and how much woxild rest upon the commanding general? A. The responsibility of making proper recommendations rests with the chief surgeon of the corps. Q. And the responsibility of carrying it out? A. With the commanding general. Q. Who may exercise his own pleasure? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether a report of the existing state of things and the neces- sary recommendations to the commanding general were made by him al)oiat Camp ' Thomas at an early date, not after the thing had become widespread and known all over the country? A. I would have to look over the documents; I do not remember at this moment what recommendations he may have made. Q. The sanitation of the regular regimental camp, the recommendation rests with the regimental surgeon? A. In the first place, it is the duty of the regimental surgeon to call the attention of his colonel to the sanitary measures needed; it is the duty of the chief surgeon of the brigade to call the brigade commander's attention to it, making proper SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2821 recommendations, and it is the duty of tlio chief snrgeon of the division to lualie proper recommendations to the division commanders. Q. Now, if the recommendations of tlie regimental officers were not acted upon by the colonels of the regiments, upon whom would rest the responsibility of report- ing that failure to carry it out? A. The regimental officer, if he fails to get action taken upon his recommenda- tion, should i^romptly make a report to a higher aiithority. One way would be for him to report to the brigade surgeon, who would then verify the facts and call the attention of the brigade commander to it. Another would be to make an official report, addressed to the adjutant-general of the division. Q. If the recommendation had been made, and tlie reports became lost and no action had been taken , the ultimate plan would be to communicate with the chief surgeon of the camp, which would go to the commanding general of the camp? A. Yes, sir. Q. Supposing that report was made to the commanding officer of the cami) or his chief surgeon and no attention was paid to it, would he have the right to rejjort direct to you? A. It would be improper. The proper way would be for him to report to the Adjiitant-General of the Army and send his communication through military channels. Q. SiTpiJOsing the intermediate officer did not forward it, would that then end the matter? A. It would certainly not be military for him to report to me; liut if under those circumstances he had reported to me, I should probably have taken it imme- diately to a higher authority. Q. Was any such rejiort made to you? A. I do not remember. Q. You woiTld ijrobably have remembered it if it had been made to you? A. I think so. Q. Therefore, if recommendations had been made and not been acted iipon before it reached a higher authority and it A. If you will permit me to make an explanation ab<:)ut the sanitary condition of Camp Thomas — I first knew of the state of things there from an official inspec- tion which was made by my request. I had heard — I forget how — that things were not as they should be, and I asked to have Lievitenant-Colonel Woodhull make a sanitary inspection of the camp. He made a very thorough inspection, sending in his recommendations. His rei^ort was forwarded by me to the Secre- tary of War. Q. Do you remember about what date? A. Some time in August. Q. Was that just prior to the breaking up of the camiJ? A. Some time — a little time before. Q. His report reached you some time in August, as I understand? A. I think it was probable that the report had much to do with the breaking up of the cami). Q. Was there or was there not a corps of medical inspectors? A. There was no such corjjs. Q. Were there or were there not special details made of inspectors? A. There were special details made. In the first place. Colonel Greenleaf , who at my request was assigned to G-eneral Miles as chief surgeon of the Army, con- sulted with me in advance as to the insi^ection of the camp at Camp Thomas and of the other camps in the South. Lieutenant-Colonel Smart made an inspection of Camp Alger. He also went toMontauk Point and made a very complete inspection. Then, after Colonel Greenleaf returned from Porto Rico, I advised that he should 2822 INVESTIGATION Of CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. go attnu'i; ami inspect all the t-aiups again, and in accordanrc with that advice ho asked for orders and went all over the camps again, and liis reports, whic-h were due to General Miles, gave me to some extent the results. 'Then I applied for a board of three experienced sanitary experts — Major Reed, of the Medical Depart- ment; Major Vaughn, division surgeon and professor of the University of Michi- gan, and Major Shakespeare, of Philadelphia — and sent them to visit all of these camps, making a sanitary inspection, and to report to me any unsanitary condi- tions which should be corrected at once, and also to bring tlie same to the atten- tion of the commanding generals of the camps. Q. Were those various inspections made at an early date or after the storm broke? A. It was at an early date as far as some of the camps were concerned, l)ut it was not so far as Camp Th(mias was concerned. Q. Did or did not the chief surgeon of Camp Thomas reptn-t that the sanitation of the camp was bad? A. As I said, I do not remember that he did: he may liave done so and I may find it in my office, but I do not recollect it. Q. Prior ti> the typhoid-fever epidemic, was any attempt made to isolate typh(nd patients at Camp Thomas? A. That brings up (|uito a broad (piestion. I can not say that any special attempt was made to isolate further than to send them to the division hospital. We have ample evidence now that at Camp Thomas the early cases of typhoid were not recognized — they were called by some other name, until tlie patients became so sick that it was evident it was something else; the diagnosis was not usiially made until they got to the division hospital, and that failure to make an early diagnosis, mistaking typhoid fever for malarial fever, led very largely to the camp infection. Q. Is it not very easy to tell what the nature of a case is, Avhether typhoid or not? A. If it is easy the profession all over the country have been making mistakes; it is a fact that in civil as well as in military life this is the case, and that these cases often are not recognized until they are in the second week of the disease. Q. Is it not a fact that a diagnosis can readily determine a case in the course of foiir, five, or certainly seven days? A. By the use of the Widal test. Medical officers of the Army are informed in reference to that, but this test has been so recently introduced that the profession generally have not used it. Q. Can not the ordinary practitioner determine with the thermometer whether he is dealing Avith tlie ordinary or typhoid fever during five days? A. A great many of them do not, and even in Camp Wikoit many cases called malarial fever proved to be typhoid. Q. Were you officially informed of any measures being adopted by the chief siirgeon of the army at Camp Thomas to isolate the cases — separate them — at an early day, or did he rely so far as you know iipon reports that came to him? A. I do not recollect anything on that sut)ject. Q. Do you know anything about the isolation of the typhoid cases in the divi- sion hospitals as respects the general rule? A. I know that in some of the division liospitals they were isolated in special wards. I think there was an (effort madi; to do that. Cj. As respects the use of disinfectants, what were the orders issiied? A. I issued a circular on the 25th of April calling attention to measures to be taken for the prevention of tyi>hoid fever and other infectious diseases, and that circular was distributed to all of the chief surgeons, and by them to all medical officers. SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2823 Q. Did yoii or did you not receive reports froui those chief surgeons as to liow thoroughly tliis order was carried oiit? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. Was it or was it not the duty of the chief surgeon to report in due time whether that order was being executed? A. It was his duty to make such reports to the commanding general. Q. Do you know whether that order was strictly complied with? A. I believe there was an earnest effort'made on the i^art of the medical officers to obey it, and that while the earnest effort was made there was often a failure because agents who ought to carry it out w^ere indifferent and iinreliable. Q. If there were unsanitary conditions prevailing during the occupation of Chickaiuauga Park by troops, how far was the chief medical officer responsible therefor? A. He was simply responsible for calling attention to the unsanitary condition of things, but it was evidently impracticable for the surgeon himself to see that these things were changed. In regard to the troop's defiling the ground, that could only be controlled by the discipline of the company and regimental officers. It would have been impossible for the chief surgeons, or even the regimental surgeons, to see that these orders were carried out. Q. Did you or did you not receive reports from Camp Thomas setting forth the condition of division hospitals at an early time when your attention could be directed to it? A. I received a report from Colonel Woodhull, which I spoke of, and I had received reports which led me to send him to make that investigation, biit just the nature of those reports I can not recall. I would have to refer to my files. Q. During the time that the country at large had heard that Camp Thomas was in an unsanitary condition, and that the division hospitals were not admin- istered as they might have been or should have been, was any official report sent to you of that condition, and of the conditions prevailing between the 15th of June and the 1st of August? A. I would have to refer to my files. My recollection is that my attention was called to these unsanitary conditions from reports in the newspapers, but I may have some such report on file. Q. Is it or is it not possible that yoii have some such report? A. I think it is quite probable that there may be such reports, and let me say here that during the overwhelming rush of business every officer and clerk in my office has been working up to his fullest capacity. I have recently had quite a number of reports that had escaped me put on my desk; these had been filed in the sanitary division. Some clerk had supposed that I had seen them and they had been filed without my seeing them at all. There may have been some such reports sent me which I have not seen. Q. Now. general, please, as respects the matter of disinfectants, when they are permitted to be issued, by what department of the Government are the disinfect- ants sent out? A. The regulations of the Army provide that disinfectants will be furnished by the Medical Department. The regulations also provide that the routine issue of disinfectants is not allowed. We have tried to impress upon medical officers and line officers that it is a reproach upon the sanitary police of a garrison to depend upon disinfectants except when you have sick in hospitals. There disinfectants should be used to destroy infectious material on the spot. The regulation is given in the Manual for the Medical Department that the excreta should be disinfected at once before being thrown out. It you have the excreta of healthy men to dis- pose of in sinks, and they are deposited, as they should be, in the sinks and covered with fresh earth, we consider that all that is essential; but when tliere are prob- 2824 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAU WITH SPAIN. ably cases of typhoid fever, who are also xising the same sinks, disinfectants should be used, and it is the biisiness of the Medical Department to furnisli them. The disinfectant which has been found by experience to bo the most easily obtained is quicklime, and I have recommended the free use of (quicklime in sinks wherever needed. For the disinfection of the excreta of the sick in hospitals we use the chloride of lime or tricresol, and also carbolic acid — a very valuable disinfectant — and these we had in bur supply depots in large quantities; and they have been issued freely for that rise; but they are too expensive to be used in disinfecting sinks, therefore the quicklime is best and most available. Q. For disinfecting purposes, must this quicklime be drawn from the Medical Department or can it be drawn upon request from the Quartermaster's Depart- ment? A. There was evidently misapprehension about that. It should l)e drawn from the Medical Depai'tment. and I have given orders in all cases to buy quicklime when it was not on hand. Q. It has been reported to us that at Camp Thomas it was practically impos- sible to get any quicklime; do you or do you not know whether any application was made to you for quicklime? A. No, sir; I do not think that application was made to me. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Have we evidence that application for quicklime was made? General Dodge. Yes; we have at Camp Thomas. General Beaver. If he did not report it the Surgeon-General would not know anything about it. A. My recollection is, and I think I am safe in so saying, that every application for the purchase of lime has been promptly approved by me, and, moreover, I gave general instructions to that effect later. Q. Respecting the nursing forces, yoxi only have your hospital corps? A. Yes, sir. Q. Had application been made to Congress to increase that corps, or was it a separate corps? A. I applied to Congress asking for 25 hospital corps in-ivates to each regiment, knowing that many of the volunteer regiments had their own hospitals, and 50 in addition for each division. Tliis would have probably given a sufiBcient number of the hosjiital corps for service in the field. Q. Was that application granted? A. No, sir. No action was taken upon it. By Dr. Conner: Q. Do you know why it was not granted? A. One reason is that the application was made and forwarded throiTgh official channels to Congress, and T had expected some action, but I found that the appli- cation had been mislaid and lost. It had gone from my office and through the War Department, and where it was lost I do not know; if they had got it earlier action would perhaps have been taken; but it failed to reach them entirely. Q. In point of fact, is it practicable, think you, to secure by enlistment a suffi- cient number of well-trained or fairly well-trained nurses for the care of the sick of a large army? A. Yes, sir, it is, if you have time to do it, and if the army is organized delib- erately. Q. Would the nurses have to be trained after they entered the service, or would it be practicable to secure a sufficient number of well-trained nurses outside? A. Tliey would have to be trained after they entered the service. Q. And this necessarily requires a good deal of time? A. Yes, sir. SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2825 Q. So that the training would l)e secured at the expense of the patient? A. During peace times our hospital nurses go to a school of instruction for a period of six months for training; we are careful in the selection of the men, and we try to get rid of all incompetent men. That is the method in peace times, but of course when we were obliged to extend the Hospital Corps we had to take such men as were offered and get the best service we could out of them. Q. Was it or was it not apparent to you at the time of the breaking out of the war that the men secured would hot or could not be quickly made proper nurses for a large number of sick? A. I think so. Q. Was it not anticipated by you that there would be a considerable amount, if not a very large amount, of sickness among the raw troops through climatic conditions, altogether changing the ordinary conditions so that the nurses would not be familiar with them? A. I fully expected it. Q. If such a condition was expected, in what way was it expected by the Depart- ment that the sick would be cared for? A. We expected to use the Hospital Corps men for active service in the field — for first-aid work. They were to be under the control of the chief surgeons, who would instruct them as to emergency work and in taking care of the sick as best they coirld. They were quite equal to the men who were detailed from the line during the civil war and were well adapted to field work. We had many med- ical students and some physicians and many others, some of whom were very indifferent, but for the very sick, as I have already said, the intention was to care for them in general hospitals, and to the first general hospital I sent female nurses as soon as we Q. Do you remember about what time? A. At Key West; that was the first hospital established, and female nurses were sent there at once, at the very outset, liut they were not sent to division hospitals until they became loaded wp with typhoid patients and it became evident that we could not take those i)atients away and care for them in general hospitals. Q. Is it not i)robable that you had been officially informed of the conditions of the division hospitals at Camp Thomas and that the want of proper nursing in those hospitals occasioned applications being made to you for trained nurses? A. I was prepared to send them just as soon as the necessity therefor was rep- resented to me. Q. Thp representations did not come to you until late, as I understand? A. I do not remember. I sent them to the Leiter Hospital at the very outset. Q. What was the capacity of the Leiter Hospital? A. It was only 200, but it was reported to me as. being able to care for 300. I had expected to put up tents for 300 more, but after the surgeon in charge. Major Carter, took possession of the building, he assured me that it could not accommo- date more than 175, so that it never came up to what I expected of it as to the number to be cared for. Q. When were the female nurses sent to the Sternberg Hospital? A. Right away. Q. That hospital was organized about what time? A. I am sorry to say I can not give you the date. Q. It was late, however, in the history of the camp? A. Yes; it was some considerable time before the camp was left. It must have been a month or more before the camp was abandoned. Q. I would like to ask you wliether or not, looking back upon the condition of things, would you now think it would have been well to have sent female nurses to all of the division hospitals at a very early date? 2826 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. A. No. sir: at tliat time we expected tliose division hospitals to go with the divisions. Q. Looking hack? A.. If I had known at the time that these hospitals woiild he filled nj) with typhoid cases. I think it would liave been decidedly of advantage to the sick to send female nurses to take care of them. Q. While we are still upon this subject of niirsing, I would ask you how much assistance has been rendered by volunteer associations of any order or name. A. The volunteer aid associations have been most active. The Red Cross Asso- ciation, the National Relief Association, with its headquarters in Philadelphia, and varif)us other organizations have contributed very t'xtensively supplies of varioiis kinds for use in the field hospitals and in general hospitals. Q. Is it or is it not a fact that nurses supplied by these organizations were employed on certain occasions to take care of the sick? A. They have been on certain occasions. Q. Were they generally employed? A. Generally the nurses were employed through another agency. Q. And that agency? A. The Daughters of the American Revolution. A. (Continuing.) I was at the time overwhelmed with applications from women all over the country who wanted to nurse the soldiers. Letters were coming in in such large numbers that I was comjielled to turn the matter over to a com- mittee of the Daughters of the American Revolution, and let them make selec- tions on the basis of employing only trained female nurses who could present satisfactory credentials as to character and training; they fTilfilled that duty for me, and very soon I had a long list of available nurses, and whenever nurses were called for they were selected from that list. Q. How large a proportion of the female nurses have been drawn from the Roman Catholic orders? A. A very considerable number. The sisters offered in the same way, and through this same agency Sisters of Charity and Sisters of Mercy have been accepted. I can not give you the numbers, but we have had over 250 of the sisters of the Roman Catholic orders. Q. Has the nursing that has been done by these female nurses been satisfactory to the Department? A. It has been satisfactory. I have heard most favorable accounts from the medical officers who have had direct charge of the hospitals. ♦ Q. Do you know whether proper provision was made for their personal care and comfort? A. I have no doubt that there w^ere times that the provisions made were not as satisfactory as they might have been. Q. But, as far as you know, was or was not every care taken to protect these women in every w^ay? A. I believe so. When I made my inspection I found them comfortably cpiar- tered in hospital tents, and they were entirely satisfied with their surroimdings. Q. Have or have not at any time in the history of war female nurses been relied upon to do the major part of nursing in military hospitals? A. So far as I know they never have been relied upon to any considerable extent. Q. Were they or were they not employed in the capitulation during the siege of Paris? A. I am unable to say. Q. What were the reasons which induced you to decide early that female nurses should be employed only in liase hosintals or in general hospitals? SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2827 A. My principal reason was a military reason, that an army moving or ready to move shonld be relieved of all incumbrances, and not only the sick but female nurses I should consider an incumbrance to active warfare. Q. Were or were not reports made to you oflficially of the great ineflSciency of the nurses as a body in the division hospitals of the country? A. I have had reports of that kind. I think I have had official reports of that Ifind referring to the fact that many of them were not comi)etent for the work, and I have seen very sensational reports in regard to the matter in the newspapers; but as I have said before, we have had all kinds of men in the Hospital Corps just as we had in the Medical Corps — some very c.-jmiietent and very faithful, and I think that a very considerable proportion of them were comi^etent and faithful. Q. Do you or do you not know to what extent yoiir efforts to secure nurses by detail were met cheerfully by commanding officers of regiments? A. I only know through the reports that have come to me. I do not know of my own personal knowledge. Q. As a rule, you expected them to l)e made cheerfully? A. As a rule, the comjiany commanders are un^^^llin8■ to give iip their best men. By Greneral Beaver: Q. Speaking of medical nurses, and while we are on the subject, what was the opinion of the commanding officers as to the presence of females? A. I have not heard any. By Dr. Conner: Q. With respect to supplies issued for the Medical Department, ^vill you i^lease explain, in your own way, how it was that medical supplies were diverted? A. I can explain, sir, as follows: I admit, in the first place, that there was a a real deficiency at times. There was a deficiency at Santiago simply because they failed to land the supplies. At Camp Thomas and at other places there has been at times a failure to get the supi)lies to the place where they were needed at the time they were needed. Sometimes that failure has been due to the failure to apply properly, telegraphing at the last moment instead of anticipating; the moment a telegram was received at my office I gave orders to send the supplies by exijress, but all that takes a little time, and sometimes even express companies do not deliver promptly. Then the larger amounts that were sent by rail very often did not reach the point at the time they should have reached it because there was a congestion upon the tracks and at the depots. I may illustrate it as follows: At Camp Alger, ^vithin 7 miles of Washington, supplies that had been asked for and shipped promptly from the supi)ly depot did not reach the camp. Tracing it uj), we found that they had been sent, and finally it was found that they were lying at Dunn-Loring, within 3 miles of the camp, and they had been there for some days. The supplies were there, and the regimental officers in camp demanding them. That has occurred not unfrequently, no doubt, but I established early in each of the camps a supply depot. The officer in charge of that depot was ordered to make prompt requisitions by telegraph when necessary, and orders were promptly given by me to the supply officers to fill all such reqiiisitions. There has been very little real lack of medical supplies at any of the camps in this country. The great difficulty has been that many of our regimental surgeons, coming directly from civil life, thought that the supplies, which we considered proper for an army in the field, were not siifficient, and if they did not get their various requisitions filled they complained of a lack of medical supplies. Our field outfit is made up as a result of our experience during the civil war, and with the view to having supplies that can be readily transported when the army moves, and in compact form. We have done away, as far as iiossible, with all fluids in bottles that can be broken and which 2828 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. would spoil tlie contents ot the rest of the chest, for should we havu a bottle broken it might perliaps spoil the whole chest. We have onr medicines now as they are manufactured, largely in the form of pills and tablets, and we have what we consider a sufficient variety of medicines in this form for field service, but for the hospitals, the general hospitals, and division hospitals, when they lose their character of field hospitals, I have given them every latitude and have filled requisitions for pretty much everything asked for; indeed, I directed the chief surgeons by telegraph in Aiagust (I forget the date) throughout the country to purchase whatever was necessary for the care and safety of the sick. That has been the general order to all chief surgeons. Since the oiitbreak of t>i)lioid fever, when it was found that their resources were being largely consumed l)y the large amoiint of sickness, any failure in the supplies has been owing to delay in trans- portation—failure in promptly delivering owing to the great congestion in the vicinity of these large camps. We know that at Tampa medical supplies that were destined for General Shatter's army, were lost for some time and it was only a short time before the army moved that they were found, and if it had not been for them that army would have gone away without sufficient supplies, but they got them in time. Q. Has there or has there not been at all times a siifficient quantity of the nec- essary stock in the great siTpply depots? A. We have not been able to keep any large stock. Our purchases have been made largely from hand to mouth, because, in the first place, of the inade(iuate storage facilities in our supi)ly depots, and, in the next place, there has l)een no time for asking for formal bids— purchases have been largely made in the open market in the different cities. Q. Has there been any difficulty in securing promptly any importaitt drug in any desired quantity? A. No, sir. Q. Not at all? A. No, sir. Q. Was the personnel at the depot sufficiently large to enable the work to be thoroughly and comfortably done? A. The personnel has been increased in all the depots as applied for by the officers in charge, but they have been embarrassed for want of space, and by the rapidity with which large reqiiisitions came to them from vai'ious sources, so no doubt there has often heen delay at the depots. Q. By what department are the medical supplies transported? A. By the Quartermaster's Department. The Quartermaster's Department receives, transmits, and delivers to the railroad companies, or to the express companies, and receives at the other end of the line, and then delivers to the purveyors. Q. Whose duty is it to notify the other end of the line of what is being shipped? A. The sTTpply officer should always send an invoice. Q. Does the Qixartermaster's Department receive the goods at the oth(n- end of the line? A. Yes: they are in the (piartermaster's care until they are turned over to the medical officer. Q. If medical supplies are i-eceived at a given point, is it the duty of the quar- termaster to notify the Medical Department that the shipment had been received? A. 1 think so. Q. Supposing goods are sent and nothing heard from them, where does the fault lie; is it the duty of the (quartermaster to report or the depot agent to incpiire? A. I think it is the duty of each. The supply officer should report to the quar- termaster that the goods have been shii)ped: the tracing of them would be the duty of the Quartei-master's Department. SURGEON- GENERAL STERNBERG. 2829 Q. It would; and is the tracing done from the end to the beginning, or vice versa? A. I think it should be done at either end when a complaint is made of the nonreceipt of the goods. Q. Now, it has been stated to us that large supplies of medical stores were received at Montauk that were found only after the cauij) was abandoned, and that under a mass of quartermasters' goods. There was evidently a mistake made; the fault existed somewhere. Was the receiving agent of the Medical Department responsible, or whom? A. The receiving agent of the Medical Department would have nothing to do with it. The goods were not delivered, so he could not know that they were there and covered up. Evidently a matter of that kind was due to a rush of things coming in and inadetiuate storage facilities, and whoever was in charge of receiv- ing the goods woiild be of course directly responsible. Q. If the supplies were under the control of the Quartermaster's Department, that department would be responsible? A. Yes, sir. Q. In case a shipment was made of a 200-bed hospital and that shipment never turned up at the Leiter Hospital, where would the fault lie if it was shipped from New York and turned over to the Quartermaster's Department for ship- ment? A. The fault might lie with the transportation company; whatever company took these goods would be responsible to the quartermaster, and he should find out where the goods were. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Suppose the quartermaster did not know that the goods were lost. If it was not reiwrted to him, he certainly would not be responsible? A. It would be the duty of the officer shipping the goods or of the officer who was to receive them to give due notification of loss, and then it would be the duty of the quartermaster to investigate the matter with the transportation company who received the goods. Q. Was it ever officially rei:)orted to you that such a condition of things did exist? A. I think not. Q. We have had testimony that an equipment for a 2()0-bed hospital from the supply depot at New York never turned xip. General Dodge. We have testimony, however, that it did arrive at Leiter just about the time the cami) broke up. Q. Please state. General, whether, in your judgment, it would be preferalile, instead of the present system of shipiiing medical stores by rail, that the medical officer in charge of the supply depot should consign these supplies direct to the ranking medical officer at the station to which the supplies are shipped, and that the depot-supply (luartermasters should call upon the Quartermaster's Depart- ment for cartage, and then when the goods arrived at the destination the medical officer in charge there shoiild api)ly through the Quartermaster's Department for transportation to his depot or station, wherever it is, whether that would not place the responsibility with the medical officers who woiildhave had notification of the shipment. A. I think that time would be saved and c(^mplications would be avoided often if the medical supply officers could ship directly to the point of destination with- out going through the Quartermaster's Department. By General Beaver: Q. Did you ever have any difficulty in the Quartermaster's Department in making your shipments? 2830 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF W.\R WITH SPAIN. A. They are always willing, but they have their own shipments to make. If we had our our own business in our own hands we would naturally givo it prompt attention. Q. The quartermaster handles all of the subsistence? A. Yes, sir. Dr. Conner. I did not intend by that (iiiestion that there should lu' any change, but that the consignment shoukl-be made to the officers. General Dodge. That is how it is done. The goods are directed to him and the (luartermaster simply is the agent for shipping the goods. General McCooK. He keeps his invoices and the (luartermaster keeps his bills of lading. By Dr. Conner: Q. After the stores have been received at the supply depot, who would deliver the goods to the medical officer, as the medical officer has no transportation? A. The Medical Department is dependent upon the cpiartermaster to send them. Q. If the division hospital is in need of medicine, and it sends a reiiuisition to the supply depot for such medicine, and that reciuisition is filled, how is the divi- sion hospital to receive the goods if- it has no transportation? A. Probably the division surgeon would have to go to the (Quartermaster of the division and ask him to furnish transportation. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Don't the quartermaster generally assign certain transportation to hospitals? A. They have ambulance transportation. General Dodge. Don't the regulations provide so many teams, etc.? Dr. Conner. We have testimony that they should furnish them and give the hospitals the preference. By Colonel Denby: Q. When you send supplies, do you mark the name of the medical officer on the packages? A. If a requisition is received from a regiment, the name of the regimental sur- geon would be on that package; if it is for a supply depot in a camp, then to the medical supply officer, and the goods would be delivered at the Quartermaster's Department for the medical officer, who would then call on the Quartermaster's Department to take the goods where he wants them. By Dr. Conner: Q. In case of difficulty arising owing to the inability of the goods not trans- ported, to whom is c;omplaint to be made — to the chief surgcDU of the corps, to the officer at the supply depot, to the Surgeon-General's Office, to the Quarter- master's Department, or where? A. First, the division surgeon should ascertain and sliould make his proj)er application to the supply officer. I think really, though, it is the supply officer's duty, if he has not his own transportation, to call upon the depot tiuartermaster to send the supplies. There are no definite orders on the subject. Q. As a consequence of the want of definite orders, has ccnifusion prevailed at times? A. I have no doubt that it may have happened occasionally. Q. Was there at any time during the progress of the war any serious v/ant on the part of the Medical Department of medicines, of medical stores, hospital, supplies, or otherwise? A. I do not think so. Q. Now, as respects the transpcn'tation of sick by water; how early did you recognize the fact that such transportation ought to be had and what efforts had to be made to secure it? SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2831 A. On April 2'i I iTcoiuiuomled the charter of a ship. Q. On April 15? A. On April 15 I applied for a ship to be used for this purpose. Various ships were inspected with the view of yetting one for my use, and among those the steamer EiiglLs; the papers relating to her were referred to me, and, as shown in this indorsement, I recommended that this ship should be secured. That was on the 33d. By General McCooK: Q. When you first make that recommendation, what did you run against? A. The first proi)osition was to charter her, and the owners fixed the price at which she could be had; then there was considei'able inquiry as to whether it was a reasonable price or not, and I think the Assistant Secretary of War thought it was too much; at any rate she was offered in the first iilace for charter and he decided to look further, and other ships were looked at. Q. Who was doing this? A. It was really in the hands of the Assistant Secretary of War. Q. Go on now. A. Major Torney, surgeon, United States Army, who had previously been a surgeon in the Navy, was selected to take charge of our hospital ship. Q. What induced the President of the United States on May 18 to buy that ship? A. It was at my request. A. At your request? Q. Yes, sir; we had failed to charter a satisfactory ship. Q. Did you ever see this shii)? A. I never saw her myself, but I had seen plans, had shown them to the Surgeon-General of the Navy, and he spoke of her in the highest terms. She was an iron ship of 3,000 tons, running between New York and Portland, a very fine vessel and newly launched. We had failed to get a ship, up to that time, by charter. Q. Wliat made it necessary for the President to order the purchase of this boat? A. Because it had to be purchased from a special fund at his disposal, as I take it — that is my belief. Q. It is something unusual for the President to issue an order of that kind? A. Well, he had that emergency fund, and instead of taking the $450,000 out of the (piartermaster's fund — it is i)Ossible I may be mistaken about it — it was simply ordered by the President. By Colonel Denby: Q. Was the ship liought? A. The ship was bought outright and fitted up. By General McCooK: Q. What became of that ship after ii was purchased liy the United States? A. She was purchased May 18, and the Avork commenced on June 1, (piite an interval before they got t(i work. Q. Wliat was the cause of that? Do you know of any reason why there should have been this delay? A. The delay arose in getting estimates for improvements and for t]ie machinery we wanted to put in her, and the regiilar army routine in the method of getting the estimates approved; the amount of money it was going to cost to put her in order I think was a little bit startling, and the papers had to go back more than once, perhaps, before the estimates were approved. Q. Had the Medical Department anything to do with that delay? A. No, sir. 2832 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAli WITH SPAIN. By Colont'l Denby: Q. Were tlidse (questions siibiuitted to the Nnvy or War Department? A. The War Department. She l)eh)ugecl to the War Department. The fitting oitt of the ship was directly under the direction of the Assistant Secretary of War, who took general suj)ervision of these matters. By General McCooK: C^. What did the Medical Department do when this ship was bonght? A. I detailed Major Torney to make recommendations as to what was wanted — an ice jjlant, steam laundry, disinfecting apparatus, etc., and the way of ]nitting in bunks — and the Quartermaster's Department did the work. Q. Did Major Torney ever complain to you about any delay in the fitting out of this ship? A. He did. Q. Have you got this in official complaints? A. They were largely in pi-ivate letters. I have them on file. Q. You think there was necessary delay in fitting out that ship, don't you? A. I urged in every way that the work be expedited. It was my great desire that the ship should be on the way at the time she was wanted. Q. The Navy Department merely superintended it, but the Quartermaster hired the men? A. Yes; and paid the bills, and our desire was to have a very coinjilete ship; but Major Torney, especially, asked a great deal in the fitting up. If he had been a little more moderate in his demands she could have been fitted up sooner, but after the orders were given (after they had fairly gotten to work) I think they pushed the work as rapidly as they could and accomplished all that was desired. If he had been satisfied with leaving off some of the things that we considered necessary, perhaps we could have gotten it sooner. Q. In yoTir estimate of that ship, what were your fittings-out that yoii insisted upon? A. We wanted a steam laundry; we had to have bunks well e(j[uipped, water- closet arrangements, and electric lighting throughout the shij). We reeen lirought to his attention, and it was a matter for him to act upon according to his own judgment. By General McCook:- Q. Where is that man now? A. The man is now at Jefferson Barracks. Q. Is he still attending the sick? A. He was not brought to trial. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was he the only one reported to you? A. The only one ever reported to me. You understand, of course, that in mat- ters of discipline the Surgeon-General is powerless except to call the matter to the attention of the commanding officer, and it is then for him to investigate and decide whether charges shall be preferred. The facts are there for his guidance. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Is that true for a general hospital? A. No, sir; I am practically the commanding general of general hospitals. By Dr. Conner: Q. In regard to the Olivette, was she or was she not taken as a hospital transport? A. She was taken on as a transport by authority obtained from Washington, and a division hospital was put on her. SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2835 Q. She was thoroughly prepared for the work? A. She was a passenger vessel, that had no hospital equipment, and there was no time for making any special preparations; but she was put in as good condition as she could be under the circiTmstances. Q. Did she have a sufficient supply of medical stores on board? A. They put on a supply. Q. Full supply? A. I understand that she had the full supply of a division hospital. Q. Have you any official reports that she was not properly prepared for any of her trips? A. No, sir; she did good service, considering the facts. Q. Has she been used as a medical-supply ship as well as a hospital transport? A. In the way of transporting supplies. She never has had the capacity for taking a number of sick men. Q. Had she a nursing force on board other than the hospital corps? A. No, sir. By General Wilson: Q. General, in the paper placed before us (a memorandum from the Surgeon- General in relation to hospital ships) the statement is made that on the 15th day of April you asked for a ship to be used as a hospital ship, and on the 33d of April you referred that to the Quartermaster-General. It is added that this recom- mendation for the purpose you asked was not provided, and further on it is stated that on the 18th day of May this vessel was secured by purchase. Are we to understand by that that the President overruled someone who declined to do this, or that this action of the President was simply his action pending the payment for that ship from the general emergency fund? A. It was simply his action in authorizing the payment. There was no dispo- sition on the part of anyone to prevent it. Q. Did you get the date of the Quartermaster A. I was trying to get that date. They sent to their room to get it. but as I did not wish to keep you waiting here I came over and they promised to send it over. By General Dodge: Q. You had knowledge of the order for the concentration (if 50.000 men at Chickamaiiga, did you, when that order was given? A. I had knowledge of all orders when they were issued. Q. When you received that order, what preparation, so far as the furnishing of medical supplies, did you make to take care of those 50,000 men? A. In the first place, the first troops that went were the regulars. They went from their posts. The moment the order was given I had asked the Adjutant- General to issue orders to the commanding officers of the troops that they take their field equipment and three months' supplies. That order was issued, "and I had reason to think they took their field e/iuipment and three months" medical supplies. I knew that the field outfit which we were to give the volunteer troops could not be ready, as it was going to take at least a month before the delivery could be commenced, and when it did commence they would go first to the trtiop's that were going to the front. As a matter of fact, they were sent to the Philip- pine Islands and troops going to the front at once, in.stead of being sent to Camp Thomas. I sent orders to St. Louis to furnish advance outfits for the regiments to be sent to Chickamauga. These were all I thought necessary, intending to send the full field outfits as soon as they could be ready. I sent a surgeon of the Army as supply officer to Camp Thomas. Q. Who was that? A. Comegys: and we ordered these to lie sent to him for issue to the troops, 2836 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN and also other supplies; ho was directed to make timely re(iuisitions for every- thing needed. Q. When you ordered hini to open his depot — his supply depot at Chickamauga or Lytle, wherever it was — did you wait for liim to send a requisition for what stores he needed, or did you send from St. Louis and other places suflficient sup- plies for those troops? A. Not full otxtfits for full 50 regiments. My recollection is I sent 2.1 of our advance outfits; knowing our field outfits could not possibly be ready, I had re(iuested the governor of each State to send the national-guard outfits with each regiment. I asked them by telegraph, and many responded and said they would do so, and I supposed many of the State regiments would go with their full State equipments. Some of them did, and the bills are coming in, but nothing like as many as I had expected from the answers to my telegrams. I am told, for instance — or I heard it mentioned by a medical officer from a regiment — that he was directed to leave the State outfit behind, saying, " The Government will give a full outfit when we reach camp." But the Government was not ready, and depended on the States having field outfits at the beginning to be used until the regular field eqiiipment could be furnished. Q. Outside of those outfit chests, was not the Gcjvernment ready to furnish any quantity of medical stores and supplies? A. We were ready to furnish any quantity of medical supplies and stores as soon as we knew they would be needed; but, as I said, having sent these advance outfits and the field equipments of the National Guard, I thought there would be no emergency in the meantime. But, as a matter of fact, I may say here that the expenditure of medical supplies for these new regiments just thrown into the field was way beyond my expectation; it was far beyond the demands of the regular regiments. Q. You had long service in the civil war? A. Yes, sir. C^. Didn't you expect when 60,000 men came together at Chickamauga — didn't you know — that 30 i)er cent would need medical supplies? A. I knew, of course, there would be a good deal of sickness — fully expected it; but, as I say, I sent these advance outfits, and had orders given to the medical officers about making timely requisition, and I thought that would be sufficient. Q. An officer has testified before us, an inspecting officer, who made an inspec- tion of the depot there, and he stated that there was only 40 per cent of the requi- sitions called for there; that the medical purveyor was able to, or did, sui)ply Governor Woodbury. I believe you are wrong about that. He testified that only 40 per cent were filled; he does not say that the supplies were not there. He wants to know if you received complaints that only 40 per cent were filled. He simply said the medical purveyor did not have them. That is Bald^vin; his testi- mony is on page 974. A. (Continuing.) If there was any deficiency of the important articles he mentioned there, then somebody on the spot was responsible, for there was never a moment that I would not have answered a telegram giving authority to pur- chase them at the nearest drug store, if we could not send them at once; they could have been piirchased at a drug store in Chattanooga. Q. Now, referring to tlie order which has been referred to once before here, which was given by the corps commander, relative to the division commanders having authority over the hosjiitals; do you know whether or not that was made in accordance witli the request of the corps surgeon, and that it came about in a dispute of authority between the corps surgeon and the division commander? A. 1 heard that was the case. Q. Did you ever investigate it? SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2837 A. I was surprised when I learned that a corps conmiander had taken a hos- pital out of the direction of his division conmiander. Q. Don't yon think that order was one canse of the difficulties had in obtaining these supplies for the care of those hospitals? A, I shoiild think so. My plan was to make the surgeon in charge and the division commander directly responsilde for the division hospital. Q. Did yon have any occasion to give attention to the water sux)i>ly of Chicka- manga or receive any reports in relation to it? A. Not imtil later. Colonel Woodhnll made reports upon the water supply, and I got a private letter fromapliysicianin Columbus who had lieen down there; he said there was complaint on the part of the men about getting a siifficient quantity of water at one time. But all those things came to my attention at the time of my making a visit to the camp. Q, It was not called to your attention in time to take any action in the matter? A. No, sir. Q. You stated in relation to the volunteer surgeons, when asked as to their ability to perform their duties, that they were "good, bad, and indifferent." Those reported as "bad'" and " indifferent,'" were they immediately reported to the commanding officers? A. That was only a general opinion. None were reported to me as "bad"' or "indiff'erent."' Q. Oh, it was only what you heard in conversations? A. Yes, sir: it was from what I heard, and from what I know of physicians generally. I should think that would also apply to line officers or to any other class. By Colonel Sexton: Q. General, why did you return to the regiment hospital system? A. It was only a i)artial return, because I was convinced that a small regi- mental hospital, where the regimental surgeons could keep track of trifling cases, such as venereal diseases, and keep them under clo.se obsei'vation, or slight injuries, were really necessary. Q. But where you had such an amount of sickness and (mly permitted one surgeon to remain with the regiment, wasn't it asking too much for him to look after 150 cases in a regiment? A. Yes, sir; I think so. There were two tents, with five cots in each, and one for other general pxii-poses, and that enabled them to take care of only ten l)ed cases. At the same time that that order was made the order was made that two surgeons slKmld be left with each regiment. This order was made at the time of our making the tour of inspection. The Secretary of War and myself and the Quartermaster-General went through the camps; and, after discTissing tlw^ (jnes- tion of regimental hospitals and hearing the regimental commanders give their views, and the division surgeons also, the Secretary was much impressed with the idea that we should have regimental hospitals, and I felt it was proper we should have such hospitals of limited size. I agreed to one of four tents, and also that two medical officers should be kept with each regiment, and recommended it to the Secretary, and it was at once telegraphed to Washington, and the orders were issued. Q. Was not that the system of tlio civil war when the regiments were in camp? A. In the early part of the war they depended on regimental hospitals alto- gether; later on division hos^ntals were organized, and the effort was to keep the regimental ho.spitals as small as possible. If a regiment is off by itself it must have a regimental hospital. For instance, in going to Cuba, a regiment going by itself must have a regimental hospital, or a brigade must have a hospital, or 283!^ INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. ill case two companies go alone to some place they must have a liospital; but where regiments are hrought togetlier for economy in administration, v/c think the brigade liospital is the best, with small regimental hospitals for minor cases. Q. We are apt to remember things of onr experience and to think them the experience of others. I know the regiment I was in the last three years of the war had a number of patients, and we had two woman nurses. A. That was not generally considered desirable. By Dr. Conner: Q. General, would it not be iiracticable in future to carry on a system of divi- sion hospitals, and at the same time allow the three regimental officers to remain with their commands, and getting a sufficient number of officers outside to attend the division hospitals? With the camp sanitation and taking care of a few sick, or, say. thirty, fifty, or sixty men, no one man can take care of them. A. No, sir; not properly. Q. And if you preserve the regimental hospitals intact and organize the divi- sion hospitals separately, would not that lie desirable? A. Yes, sir; two regimental officers at least should bt; left with the regiment; but where there is comiiaratively little sickness, as at present in our camps, if you had all three officers with the regiment they would have a jiretty easy time of it, and I think one might well be detached for the division hospital. Q. As I understood you this morning, one medical officer is assigned to a regi- ment; is that it? A. It is attemi^ted to have two. one of them a regular officer, if possible. Q. Now, in case of an e])idemic, is one regimental officer capable of taking care of the contingencies that might arise? A. There is always a provision aside from the officers with a regiment. There are the field hospitals. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Please state whether or not the experiences of four months since the begin- ning of this war disclosed to you necessities of the service which ordinary fore- sight could not have determined; that is, whether your exjierience led you to do things and to recommend things that could not by any means have been recom- mended on account of want of knowledge at the beginning of your service. A. Yes, sir; and if you will permit me to amplify, I will do so. I have heard the story of the small boy whose mother was teaching him about the power of the Almighty, and he said, *• There is one thing, mother, that God can't do." "What is that, my child?" asked his mother. " He can't make a 4-year-old colt in a minute." said the child. It is that way with the army. You can not make an army in a minute. Time is an element Jilways; we all realize that; there were a great many things that were not what we should have desired, but I do not believe the best organized staff or any amount of money would have prevented many of the things which have been referred to, where the attemjit was to bring so many raw recruits together, with officers who were not instructed and medical officers without previous experience; for, no matter how competent, profession- ally, a man may be, he has to learn how to take care of the sick in a camp. He has to learn to be a medical officer. That takes time. If you will pardon me for that digression Governor Woodbury. No; that wasn't a digression. By General Dodge: Q. When you organized, before this Ord(>r No. llfi — that is, when yon orilei'ed the organization of the division hospital — where did you obtain the funds or the provisions to start that hospital? SURGEON-GENEEAL STERNBEEG. 2839 A. For the food for the sick? Q. Yes; and for obtaining anything they reqiiired. A. The only provision made by regulations was the regular ration, or the saving that can be made from it. A sick man can not eat his ration — the pork, theflonr, etc. —and the hospital gets credit for that. Q. Can yon commute that immediately? A. No, sir. Q. Where did you get your money, then? A. In the first place, every iiost throughout the country has a hospital fund accumulated from the savings on the rations and contributions from the canteen fuhd: they range from a few dollars tip to three or four hundred dollars. The soldiers were taken away from the posts, and I called in that money and sent it to the chief surgeons to be used for this emergency. Then there were contribu- tions from various sources amomiting to $22,000 — from private sources — and I sent $500 or .$1 .000 to each chief surgeon in the field to buy delicacies for the sick until they could get their funds from the savings; I also sent money to each hos- pital and hospital ship. Aside from those funds, there was no way of obtaining delicacies for the sick, except from the savings from the rations. If a man lives on a milk diet there is a saving from his rations. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Is that matter regulated by law of Congress? A. The law is that every soldier is entitled to one ration. Q. Is it regulated by law of Congress solely? Is it so that no other jnethod than yoiT have been talking about can be used in commuting the ration? Is there any other fund that could be given by law for this purpose except the commuta- tion of rations? A. No, sir; there are no funds under my control that I could use for food for the sick. Q. Where did you get yoiir 60 cents a day that was provided in Order No. 116 of August 10? A. That is from the Commissary Department. It seems that by the decision of the Commissary-General rations can be commuted. At first the hosi)ital at Key West found it difficult to get on with the regular army rations and asked for a commutation of rations at 60 cents per diem, and I forwarded the request to the Commissary-General and it was given. That was later extended to the whole Army. By General McCooK: Q. When did the 30-cent rate get in there? We have been in doubt about that. How did that come in? (No answer.) By General Dodge: Q. What provision — for instance, taking " sick in quarters," men who did not go to a hospital, and can not use the rations — what provision is there for taking care of them and giving them prosier food? A. None, other than cmn be made by the company commander. A man in a company when sick is in the hands of his comimny commander, and if sick enough to require special diet he nuTst be sent to the hospital. Th(> company commander has it in his power to buy milk, eggs, and other things and to sell his bacon, pork, and flour. Q. Supijose he is in the field? A. There is no provision, then. Q. Could that not be done? 2840 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir; it should be, I tliink. Q. Have yon made any recommendations to that effect in yonr report? A. No, sir; it is supposed that a man goes to the hosi^ital in such a case. Q. But, take it in the fiekl, where yon have 50,000 or 100,000 men? A. That would be the case there, too; if a man is so sick as to reciuire special diet he should be sent to the regimental hospital, and if that is not sufficient to provide for him then send him to the division hospital. By Dr. Conner: Q. When was the commiitation at 60 cents allowed at Hot Springs? A. That was 30 cents, I think, wasn't it? That is what General McCook referred to awhile ago. By General McCook : Q. Up to that time the commutation value of the ration was only 30 cents; then, in a letter from you to E. A. Orr, vice-chairman of the Red Cross Society, you speak of it at the other vahiation; but up to that time the commutation value of the ration was only 30 cents. A. That was only when it was specially authorized. There was no general order permitting the ration to be commuted at 30 cents. At our post hospitals they simply got credit for the real value of the rations; biTt I think the army and navy hospital had this as a special arrangement. General McCook. Then that is where it came from — the army and navy hos- pital. By General Dodge: Q. When the Fifth Corps sailed for Santiago — and I understand you to say there were plenty of supplies sent there — was it not your opinion, from the expe- rience you have had, that all that army would he sick down there? A. I expected a great amount of sickness, and I was very fearful of an epi- demic of yellow fever. I knew an army operating near one of the large seaports in Cuba would be in danger of yellow fever. Q. Did you think, under these circumstances, that those regiments were well supplied with medical service? A. There were 13,000 regular troops on that expedition, with 86 regular med- ical officers and 20 contract officers, which is 56 all told, or an average of four to a thousand, ^vith foiir over. How many were actually on duty with each regi- ment I do not know, but there was an average of four officers for each 1,000 men. Q. Nearly every one of these officers that have been before us have complained of the lack of surgeons, and I do not remember of one of them stating that they had two siirgeons in a regiment; but one regiment said they had their surgeon changed five times. A. The distribution of the surgeons was under the direction of the command- ing officer. We tried to have the Relief there before the engagement, and she had IS additional medical officers on board — I was seeking to get immune men. Q. Was not application mad(! directly froni there to you for surgeons, stating in effect that they had not a proper supply of them? A. Yes, sir; they called on me for more medical officers, and I sent them as rapidly as possible. Q. Was there any arrangement made about giving the men sick in (luarters there the proper food? A. No, sir; that is, nothing done ])y the Medical Department; and if any arrangement was made to give special light diet it would have to be done l)y the Commissary Department. SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2841 Q. There is iki provision in the ca.se of an army like that there for feeding a man on light food unless he is in the hospital? A. No, sir; not unless he is in the hospital. Q. When that command was ordered home to Montank Point were you aware that iiiany would land there with nearly the entire command sick? A. I was aware of sickness, but I was not aware that a large portion of the men would be sick. As a matter of fact, a large portion of the men who were well on leaving Santiago got sick on the way home, and after they arrived home, from that lualarial fever. Q. Is it your opinion that they W(iuld have fared better to remain there until they got over their sickness there? A. No, sir; I think the movement was very judicious and not made too soon. Q. They would have got sick there, and it was only from not moving them sooner that they were made sick? A. The sooner we could get them away the l:)etter. By Governor WOODBURY : Q. From your knowledge of the usual workings of malarial fever, might not you have anticipated that many would have taken sick en route or soon after arriving at Montauk Point? A. Yes, sir; and we sent lots of medicine there. We boitght the soluble quinine pills, manufactured by Schieffelin, and two barrels of them were sent to Tampa, so they were not without the most importaTit medicines. That is the principal and most important medicine for the treatment of that fever. By Dr. Conner: Q. General, it has been shown to us that at the time these troops started for Montauk there were no medical supplies — proper supplies — on the transports, and that the ships came out unprovided for those sick or that might become sick on the passage: and at the same time that this occurred the Red Cross Society had a shij) there with supplies and stores, and one thing and another, and they were given to the men when the army was unal)le to provide them. Is there any reason why a vohmteer association could have had a ship there mth such supplies and the United States Army could not? In other words, could not a ship have been provided for the Anny jiTst as that was? A. It would have been practicable to have hired a shij) and sent it a month before. As a matter of fact I expected the ship Relief to be there. C^. Would she have been sufiftcient if there? A. I think so. She had a great quantity of canned foods and there were canned soups bought from the Franco- American Company. But the Red Cross ship was there for another purjiose. She was there to take her stores and distribute them among the Cubans; had ]:)een there some time waiting to land them. By General Dodge: Q. Did the Relief remain there during all the time the army was there? A. The Relief remained there: my instructions were that she was to stay there as a floating hospital and as long as she might be needed, but at the time the wounded were sent away she had most of them on her. Being best equipped she had most of the severely wounded on her, and she brought the last lot of severe cases of wounded and distributed them in New York. Q. And she had i)lenty of stipplies on board to siipply the army with all the medical stores it might reqiiire? A. She had enough for a time, but we sent three other ships. We sent some on the Olivette, and, I think, a large stock on the Breakwater. 2842 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. That was after Santiago was opened? A. Before— I do not remember tlie exact date. They followed pretty close after the Relief. It was not long- after the Relief went before the Olivette was sent with supplies, and then we sent supplies on the Breakwater. Q. The testimony is that during the entire time the army remained there they were short of medical supplies and medical stores? A. I have given a full statement of what was sent. You will find it on record, and it is a mystery to me how there could be a scarcity considering the quantity sent. Q. Where did you land them? A. There was an acting medical purveyor down there, detailed by the com- manding general. Q. Who was that? A. Well, different ones at different times. Some of the Relief supplies and some of the others were turned over to Major La Garde, and— I don't remember who acted; there were two or three changes. That was a local matter, not done by me or under my direction. I sent the supplies there, and they were expected to take care of them and distribute them. By General McCook: Q, When you selected Montauk Point for a camp, what was the object of selecting it? A. I was asked to look at it and make a report? Q. Who asked you? A. The Adjutant-General said he would like to have it examined and a report made upon it to the Secretary. I said I should be glad to go, and I took the next train. I fully approved of it as a place for a camp, and I do not believe there is another place equal to it on the Atlantic coast. There was ample space, rolling land, ocean breezes, and a deep harbor, where the ships could come up. The gi-eat thing in getting these men home was to prevent the introduction of yellow fever; and the great danger was that it might break out on the transports coming north and thereby introduce it to our own shores. Q. Well, when that site was selected, did you contemplate the arrival of 70,000 men, horses, and mules? A. I supposed it was only for General Shafter's troops. By Captain Howell,: Q. Were the svipplies carefully inspected by an agent representing you? A. Our medical-supply officers are the agents who inspect, and they are instnicted to carefully examine all purchases. In ordinary times all medicines are sent to my office for testing. We have a chemist there, and when we make contracts they must be tested; but during the emergency we purchased stores from reliable firms without testing. Q. Did yoii receive any complaints that the medicines were defective in char- acter? A. I do not remember any such complaints, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Was there any legislation you asked for in your department pending the war with Spain that was not granted? A. I have spoken already of the recommendation for a hospital corjis for each regiment in the vohinteer service, and I had recommended that the chief surgeons of army corjis should have the rank of colonel, and the cliief siirgeons of divi- sions should have the rank of lieutenant-colonel, so that the cliief surgeons of SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2843 brigades, divisions, and regiments would not be, as tliey were, all the same rank. I considered that unfortunate and unjust to the officers placed in those responsi- ble positions, that they did not have more rank. Aside from that, I do not think there was any legislation I asked for that was not given. By Dr. Conner: Q. Were you supplied with all the money you asked for at all times? A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. General, in the administration or your department, were you at any time hindered or delayed in the discharge of your duty by superior authority? A. Not to any extent that is worthy of mention — not with any intention, surely. The reason I hesitate over that question is, I did not think you meant the neces- sary delay which all bureau officers have to experience when seeking an audience with the Secretary. On those occasions there was often some delay, because in seeing a busy man I would sometimes find five or six aliead of me. Q. "Was there any delay other than that incident to unavoidable conditions? A. No, sir. Q. Did you have the earnest cooperation of all your superiors in your efforts to provide for the army's comfort, health, and its care in sickness? A. Yes, sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. I would like to have you state something in regard to your practically inde- pendent authority. Now, is it a part of your duty— first, I understand you are subject to the authority of the Secretary of War? A. Yes, sir. Q. But is it a part of your duty to initiate the work of your bureau? A. Certainly, sir. Q. You have been Surgeon-General through two Administrations? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you expect that the Secretary of War would have sufficient knowledge of the needs of your department so that he could take the initiative in any of that work? A. No, sir. Q. Would it devolve entirely upon you to do that? At It would devolve upon me to do that. Q. And if the Secretary of War sustains your recommendations and gives you what you ask for, does he perform his duty in regard to your department? A. I think so. Governor Woodbury. That is all I want to ask you. By General Dodge: Q. I wish to ask. General, if you have any further statements or suggestions or information that you care to make to us and that will be of interest to the com- mission or of interest to the service? Make any statement upon any subject iipon which we have not questioned you: or anything in relation to the war that you desire to say. We will be pleased to hear anything in refutation of any reports that may have come to your knowledge that we have not questioned you about. A. There is a gi-eat deal that might be said as to how we could do better if we had another war, I think. Of course it is hardly necessary to say that we have had to encounter very great difficulties owing to the rapidity with which the troops were brought together and the fact that we had to make an army, a large 2844 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAT? WITH SPAIN. army, out of our little nucleus of a Regular Army. The Regular Army was almost lost: and the number of experienced medical officers was so limited, that it has been a constant source of embarrassment to secure officers. I can not make the men stretch out to fill the demands. If we had had an adequate medical corps to start with we could have done a gi-eat deal better. I have been obliged to rely upon the chief surgeons of army corps and military expeditions in the field. It is impossible for army officials in Washington to attend to what is going on in the field. I placed the most competent men in the positions of responsibility and they have done nobly, but they encountered conditions which overtaxed their strength. In attempting to instruct men new to the service they encountered opposition. It has been said by some that their reciuisitions were not filled. In that connection I would say that these new men would come and bring with them a long list calling, for example, for moi-phia, opium pills, and paregoric; the reg- ular army surgeon would strike out the moii^hia and say. " There are opium pills; we have them; that is all you need in that line." These doctors then wotild think their favorite remedies were erased, and they would perhaps go to the aid societies for the drugs. In that way many false reports and misconceptions arose. The regimental surgeon would say. •' I am not going to make any more requisitions, when I can go to this society and get what I want." And the agents of these aid societies have been so full of patriotism and loaded up with money that they have urged them to name what would be useful to them. Many of them said, •' We would like clinical thermometors, sheets, and mosquito bars."' By getting these articles from the aid societies, I may add, they did not have any responsil)ility; they did not have to give a receipt, and if they were lost or broken there was no necessity of accounting for them? The agents would then write back that they had to give mosciuito bars and clinical thermometors: and the inference was that the Government did not furnish these articles. By Governor Woodbury: Q. General, we have a great deal of testimony on that point, saying they were short of thermometers, h>T;)odermic syringes, sheets, and pillowcases, and bed- pans. A. At division hospitals? Q. Yes. A. There was no excuse for it. If they had telegraphed to my office the order would have been given instantly. Q. I think we have testimony upon that point— of there being a shortage of sheets, etc.. out here at Camp Alger; that a lady nearly connected with the Sec- retary of War reported that there was a shortage of sheets, and that the Secretary called on you and ordered a supply to be sent there. A. Yes, sir; I remember the incident. The lady found a patient she was inter- ested in lying on a bed without sheets. The thing was explained. There was no scarcity of sheets in camp— I have forgotten the explanation of it at this time- but at any rate, a lady who is not accustomed to visiting camps will find many things to object to. There are a good many men, such as venereal patients, who need no sheets. On the question of mosquito bars. I ordered that they should be sent everywhere: but I found a majority of the men at the division hospitals without mosquito bars, and I spoke about it: the men said they could not breathe under the mos(iuito bars in camp. There have Ijeen times— I think it was so at Camp Alger— that there was some difficulty about getting washing done promptly. There was no scarcity of sheets, but a scarcity of clean sheets. That was because somefme they had dei^ended upon to do the washing had failed them. Those things occur everywhere. SURGEON-GENEKAL STERNBERG. 2845 By General McCooK: Q. From your information of the condition of the health of the Army in this campaign — I am not speaking of the climatic influences of Cuba — what conclu- sions have you come to as to the cause of so much typhoid fever in our Army? A. Neglect of sanitation in the camps and remaining too long upon one camp- ing ground. It was introduced from the State camjis, sometimes men coming in in the incipient stages, and they scattered the germs over the ground, the camp gi'ound, and through the sinks, etc., which soon affected the entire camp. By General Dodge: Q. General, do y-ou think you could bring together as many men as were brought together in this war with less sickness ? A. It should be done. If we can educate medical men throughout the country Q. No " ifs." Do you think- you can put together 250,000 men, uneducated and inexperienced as they were, and have less sickness? A. I think we could do it now, because I think the lesson has been taken to heart by many men. By General McCooK: Q. General, were you informed that they were going to assemble 50,000 or 60,000 men at one i^lace as they did? A. Not until I got it from the newspapers or the orders were issued. I was not informed in advance. Q. You were not informed that they were going to assemble 50,0000 or 60,000 men at one place ? A. Not before the issuance of the order. Q. Suppose you had known, what order would you have given or what advice? A. I should have advised against it, in such large numbers at one place, except for a short time. To preserve the health of troops in camp we must have either the civilized method of sanitation, by a complete system of sewers, or else the Indian method, of going away when the camp site becomes foul. By Colonel Denby: Q. General if you knew that the United States intended to keep 50.000 men at Chickaniauga, and if you had plenty of time and money to make a town practi- cally for them to live in. put good water there, and send in a number of dis- tinguished surgeons to take care of them, you could, under the circumstances, reduce the sickness ? A. It should be much reduced then. Q. Then these things as to what you could do in future are matters of con- jecture, because you do not know the circumstances under which you would have to do that? A. Exactly. Q. Suppose, General, yoTi were called ux)on to keep 30,000 men in the Philip- pines, don't you think, from medical science and experience derived from the military habits and ciTstoms of the other nations of the world — don't you think you could keep those o0,000 people there and not have extraordinary sickness? A. I believe we could give the necessary directions, which, if carried out, wo.uld effect that. We know if we gave them proper clothing and shelter and water purified by boiling or filtration, and proper drainage, and they had a proper diet, and did not indulge in things that should not be eaten, that the health of such a command woukl be almost ideal. The practical difficulty, however, is to get the men to do what you provide for. A reckless man, if he is 2846 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. tired and thirsty, will drink from some pool, even though at camp ho has a filter. Q. Then, in your experience, as in all others, it is idle to talk about what you might do once the conditions are laid down. If we had a war with Germany to-morrow, and we had to have 500,000 men in the field— two camps with 250,000 men in each — we might have sickness again then, might we not? A. Yes, sir; because the education has to be given to each individual medical officer and man. Q. The (questions are not put down on paper for you to answer, setting forth the conditions that: These troops are going to Tampa, where they will stay a cer- tain number of days, and then be transported to Santiago and stay there a certain time; but you and your deimrtment do, when the order is given, what reasonable and prudent men would or could do under the same circumstances? A. Yes, sir; I believe I have done so since the beginning of the war. I have had a pretty ample experience back of me, and if there has been any failure it has not been from want of effort. Q. Yoia can not tell us of any case where you should have sent medicine and you did not do it? A. No, sir. Q. You say you used all the power, wealth, and influence of the Government to protect the health of the Army? A. Yes, sir. Q. You say you have not the power to prevent men having typhoid fever under certain conditions? A. Yes, sir. Q. And if you could make the conditions yoiirself you would make a paradise where nobody could get sick or die? A. Yes, sir. Q. And in this case you had no notice or time to do that? A. Yes, sir. In that matter I will say that I have not had time to consider important questions Avhich I should at times have given several hours to. I devoted all the time I had. I have had my assistants and distributed the work among them. They are competent, but there are a great many things on which the chief of a bureau only can act. There are many interruptions that take time. At the outset of the war there were constant interruptions from well-meaning civilians, who came in to aid us, and Members of Congress, who were entitled to consideration; and it has happened to me very often when I wanted to dictate an important telegram, and had pencil in hand, that one person and another would come and I would have to put someone off for a time until I could write the telegram. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Can you tell us anything of the epidemic of typhoid fever which occurred in a regiment stationed at Minneapolis or St. Paul? A. Yes, sir; there was one there as serious as any we had in any regiment. We had typhoid at Camp Black, on Long Island, and we had it at Camp Alger, and we had it at Honolulu. Q. Please state whether or not the epidemic at Montauk was any worse than the epidemic in the regiment at Minnesota? A. No, sir; it was not. By Colonel Denby: Q. I would like to know how many cases have been presented to you of care- lessness or negligence or ignorance on the i^art of surgeons. A. I do not know of any that has been made to me. SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2847 Q. You have liejircl of the Parrot case- A. In the newsi^apei-s and letters referred for investigation — I have heard of them; bnt not in an official form. Q. Yoii heard of the Dobson case? A. Yes, sir. Q. What wonld yon say if the facts in the Dobson case show that Dobson was not a very strong young man, not very strong, about 20 years old, who wanted to stay wdth the regiment and march up the avenue instead of going to the hospital; what would you say, if these facts are true, that the physician should have done with Dobson? A. The physician should have insisted that he go to the hospital; but it is i)retty hard for a physician to enforce a thing of that kind. Q. Suppose, after a physician had found he had typhoid fever, he was ortlered to the general hospital, and he was sent there without a descriptive list, and without a word of writing to show who he was or what was the matter with him, what would you say as to that? A. It was an injustice to send a man away without a statement as to his siclniess. Q. Who would be responsible for that state of things? A. It is the business of the commanding officer to send his descriptive list and of the medical officer to send his medical description. Q. Suppose, when this man got to the hospitarat Montauk, he was sent to the hospital in New York, still withoiTt a descrii)tive list, without a pape^ to show who he was, would yoii consider that was proper treatment? A. No, sir. Q. Supi)ose after he got to New York he was sent to another hospital and they didn't take any care of him there and he was taken to yet another, and he died the next day, somebody should be responsible for that? A. Yes, sir; I shoxild think so. Q. Well, don't those cases reach you? A. If they were to come to me, those individual cases, and I had to investigate them, I could do nothing else. I can only refer them to the person in charge on the spot; that is, those who have cognizance of the facts. Q. But if you would investig?ite one case, and finding such conditions existing and put your foot down and announce to the Army that the next time that hai)- l^ened a man's head would come off — his official head would come off, would not that have stopped it? A. I have made it a practice to refer those complaints to the Adjutant-General for investigation. I have ni> discii)linary xjowers. If a medical officer at Camp Wikoff gets drunk, and it comes to my notice, my action is to send it to the Adjutant-General, with a request that instructions be sent to the officer in charge to have charges preferred. Q. You have no power to put a man under arrest? A. No, sir; not at camp. Then he is under the orders of his immediate com- manding officers. I would have authority to arrest those under my immediate control in my office or in the hospitals under my charge. Q. There have been individual charges of incompetence or bad conduct; assur- edly there have been some cases showing that physicians have been incompetent. It seems to me there should be some authority to reach those people charged with that incompetence. A. There is authority. It is on the spot where it occurs. If the surgeon of a regiment neglects his patients or shows incompetence, or gets drunk, it is the duty of his commanding officer to jirefer charges against him and have him tried right there. The facts would have to be ascertained by witnesses on the spot. If 2848 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. I got information of a thing directly, I t-oulcl address a letter to tlie Adjutant- G^eI)ieral asking that charges he preferred hy the commanding officer of the camp at the place stated. Q. Would the chief surgeon at a i^lace report to yon that a man was incom- petent? A. Yes, sir; and in that case I would ask the Adjutant-General to have him relieved, or if he was giiilty of misconduct to have charges preferred against him. Q. I understand that in this country a man can not he disciplined without trial? A. The commanding officer, if he got information that a medical officer was drunk or neglected duty, would jilace him under arrest, and then consider whether it was advisable to prefer charges. Q. You tell us yoii have had no official complaint of anybody under you? A. I got a letter with rtrference to a young doctor who had been drinking too much at Camp Wikoff , and I wrote a letter concerning it. By Dr. Conner: Q. You were speaking about the lioiling of water. Is it practicable in large camps to have the drinking water boiled? A. It is practicable to boil it, but not to make the men drink it. Q. Is it practicable to secure sufficient boiled water for a large camp? A. I think so; it is practicable to secure enough for all that would drink it; there is an apparatus for aerating the boiled water which, I think, is a good thing, but the difficulty is to get them to take it. Q. Boiled water then, though potable, is not always palatable? A. No, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Is it your opinion that the men sent there first were sent for permanent or temporary occupation? A. I supposed they were sent there only until they were outfitted to go farther. Q. From your experience in the war, what suggestions have you to make for the futiTre benefit of your department? A. We need a greatly enlarged department. Q. Have you made such recommendations in your report? A. Yes, sir; a department to correspond t(j the size of the army to be brought into use, and I think that it might be better if there were some changes in the methods. I think perhaps it would be better for the Medical Department to have control of tlie transportation of its own supplies. I think (h'hiys might often be avoided thereby. There is only one objection to that, and that is we would not have anybody to find fault with if they didn't get there. Then in regard to orders. All orders have to be given through another department. If there is a hijspital corps man to be moved here, there, or the other place, the orders have to be given through the Adjutant-GeneraFs Office, and that sometimes causes delay. Now, through this war when I wanted anything important or urgent, either from the Adjutant-General or Qi;artermaster-General, I have gone in i^erson, and action was promptly taken. We have done away with red tape. If anything is urgent, we use the telegraph, and do away with red tape. There was an unimportant message which took seven days to get across the road to reach me. That was because there is an immense amoimt of work to be done in the Adjutant-Gen- eral's Office. I think if orders could be given directly by a chief of bureau to his own suboi'dinates it would often be an advantage. By Governor Woodbury: Q. That is, orders not involving large expenditures of money or matters of miich importance? A. Yes, sir. SURGEON-GENERAL STERNBERG. 2849 By General Dodge: Q. Have you any stiggestion as to a change of rations for hot climates? A. I am not prepared yet to say. We are sending a commissioner down to Jamaica, and he is going to ascertain the experience of the English troops there. I have no doubt an improvement can he made in the ration — less nitrogenous food and more fruits and vegetables. Q. Don't you think some improvement could be made by i)roviding for the maintenance of the hospitals than to go through the custom of commutation of rations by having a fixed sum allowed for patients? A. I think so. By having it arranged that a man on going to the hospital was to have his ration commuted at once and the surgeon in charge was to furnish proiier food there for the sick; the sum now fixed is beyond what we require. The surgeon at Fort Monroe kept an account for two months, feeding hi« men most liberally and giving them everything that was desired; the average cost one month was 84 cents and the next 35 per diem. So if we could have a commu- tation of 40 cents per ration all through I think it would be ample. We should have an independent fund for the hosiiital, a fixed commtitation rate for all in hospitals entitled to rations, and make the physician in charge of the hospital responsible for the hospital fund. He makes a monthly report to me, and we keep a close watch over that fund. By Dr. Conner: Q. Are the female nurses entitled to their washing? A. They are not, under the contracts made for them. Q. Do you think out of $30 a month §4 shoiild be taken from these nurses for that? A. I have been getting some big bills for dresses. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Do yoii mean for " dresses"' or the laundering of them? A. Laundering. The female nurses are a luxury. There are many things connected with them that make them exi>ensive. Now that we have them in our various camps, I am getting requisitions for bureaus, rocking chairs, and various things of that kind; but I think the pay they receive is certainly not adequate for the service and requirements. We demand trained nurses, and they can do better in a financial way by staying at home and taking care of their patients. By General Dodge: Q. Who fixes that i^rice? A. I named the price and Congress fixed it. I asked that nurses should be allowed $30 a month and rations, thinking it would be adequate, and we get as many as we desire for those rates. Q. Would you extend the commutation of the ration right on down to the regimental hospital for each patient? A. There comes in the difficulty. We do not want to keep the sick men in regimental hospitals, because I think it would be an incumbrance to regiments that were going to move, and if you give it to them, and encourage them to keep their men there, the regimental hospitals would grow. Q. You would stop it at the division hospitals? A. Yes, sir; at the division hospitals. But I think there should be some way by which the man's rations could be commuted in some way; say, commuted at actual cost. Then they could use that money for buying milk, eggs, or whatever they desired. General Dodge. Any other questions? There being no response the witness was excused. 7§33_V()L. 29 2850 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. Washingto>', D. C, December S, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF BRIG. GEN. DANIEL "W. FLAGLER. Bri"-. Gen. Daniel W. Flagler then appeared before the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of tlie investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied tliat he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By General Beaver: Q. General, give us your name and rank and the bureau over which you preside? A. Daniel W. Flagler; brigadier-general; in charge of the Ordnance Depart- ment of the Army. Q. How long have you occupied that position? A. Since January, 1891. Q. How long have you been in the Ordnance Department? A. Since June 24. 1861. Q. W^hat position did you occupy in that department during the civil war? A. I was first in the Army of the Potomac, and then I was chief ordnance officer in the Burnside expedition; then I came back in 1863, and from that time I have been on various duties. Q. So you have been in the •• field " as well as in the office? A. Yes, sir. Q. To what extent— I suppose we have that in your report, but we will get it perhaps in a form that impresses us. verbally— to what extent were the troops armed with the standard rifle? A. You mean caliber .30 magazine rifle? Q. Yes. A. The Regular Army was entirely armed with it, and I think at first three volunteer regiments; one of them was the regiment generally known as the Rough Riders, and one known as the Ohio Cavalry — that is, at first. Q. Is the caliber the same for cavalry and infantry? A. The same, and they used the same cartridge. Q. What as to the gun itself— do the cavalry have the bayonet? A. No, sir. It is entirely the same in the breech mechanism, but the principal difference is in the length of the barrel. Q. What is the capacity, if you deem it prudent to tell us— I can see reasons why you should not make it public— what is the capacity of our arsenals for making that arm per day? A. Aboiit350. Q. Are they running on that? A. They are manufacturing a little less than that: they are manufacturing a little over 300. Q. To what extent were you able to supply smokeless powder to the troops in the field during the war? A. Should I answer what we did do? Q. That will answer. A. All of the caliber .30 cartridges were of smokeless powder. Then the only other infantry arm was the caliber .45 Springfield. 1 had Ijeen experimenting for two or three years on smokeless powder to arrive at or work out a satisfactory smoke- less powder for that cartridge , and had succeeded. But when the war commenced— it was late when I got ready to begin to furnish supplies to vohinteer troops, and there was a very limited capacity in this country for smokeless powder. We BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2851 wanted all we could get for our coast defense; so I at once commenced a large increase on the .30-caliber cartridges. Tlie Navy had to be sui^plied, and it was generally thought their demands shonld have some precedence, and they did have some precedence. We increased our product of powder five or six times. The powder mamifactnrers had a limited plant and increased it as promptly as possi- ble; but that took more time and money than to increase the black or cocoa powder plants. Well, we had to get powder enough in some way; so I at first gave up getting smokeless powder for the caliber .45 carti'idges, and we gave up very largely getting smokeless powder for our coast-defense works; but I insisted upon it for our field and siege ai-tillery and the caliber .30 cartridges. In about two months, I think, I was able to get the smokeless powder for the caliber .45, and after that all the caliber .45 were made of smokeless i)owder, nearly. I had to procure that from private manufacturers. I iised my plant on .80 calil)er and got the .45-caliber powder from the i^rivate owners. Q. Did you have sufficient for the field artillery and siege guns for the cam- Ijaign in Santiago? A. There was enough of it — no, not when the campaign commenced; they took none of it with them. The reason of that was that our appropriations have been barely sufficient from year to year to keep the Army. I had a small reserve of our field artillery; but the batteries that went to Tampa and Santiago took their ammunition with them. They had it at theii- several posts; and that was all that went to Santiago. As soon as we could begin to manufacture the new ammuni- tion it was forwarded down; but none of it reached Santiago. In fact, no field annuunition, except a very little of it, was used there. Q. Does the Government manufacture powder on its own account at allV A. No, sir. Q. How many manufactories are there in the country that you were able to secure a sui)ply from? A. At first only three of any great importance. Q. Was their capacity enlarged? A. Very raiiidly. Q. Where were those? A. One was the Peyton Company, at Santa Cruz, near San Francisco; the Dupouts, and Laflin & Rand. Q. Where is Laflin & Rand's? A. I can not give you the name. Q. Well, it is only a matter of curiosity. What is the dift'erence in cost between the black or brown and smokeless powders? A. We have two charcoal powders, the black and brown; and the military powders, that is the black, costs about 18 cents; the brown, that is the cocoa. 33 cents; and we had generally to pay §1 for the smokeless. The smokeless, how- ever, requires about 45 or say 50 i^er cent of the weight for the same charge. Q. So you got 50 per cent more activity or power? A. Yes, sir; the jirice for smokeless abroad is a little over $1; but after the first I paid 90 cents in this country. That is what I am paying now. Q. That would make 45 for smokeless powder as against 33 for Ijrown and 18 for black? A. I will have to correct that a little — those figures of mine. The proportion of black powder to smokeless powder would average aboiit four-sevenths instead of 50 i)er cent, or a little more than that — about 43 to 70. It is diflierent for dif- ferent purposes, different guns. With the small arms our charge of black powder would be 70 grains, and for the smokeless powder the charge would be 42 grains. Q. Since the inception of the war did you change the arms of any of the volunteer regiments? 2852 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. We are changing them now as fast as the new arms are being turned out. We have now changed about — there have been issued about 110.000, both carbine and rifles, up to date. Q. What number have you on hand? A. About G,000. Q. So that you keep them pretty well cleared out? A. Yes, sir. Those are at the different posts, scattered all over. Q. Have these magazine-loading arms been in the hands of the troops a suffi- cient length of time to ascertain whether they care for them properly? A. We have had no troul)le with the regixlars. With the volunteers we have not had sufficient experience to determine that point. By Govemor Woodbury: Q. Does the use of the arms in actual service, in l)attle, justify what was expected of them? A. I think I can say, entirely. We have had enough experience in our cam- paigns with, the regular troops — that is, in the Indian country — to satisfy us; but there was a (question about their endurance under the rigors of such a climate as Cuba, and at my reiiuest the Secretary of War appointed a board to interview officers at Montauk Point and make a report, which they did, and they said it was the most x)erfect arm they ever had. Q. What is the difference in weight between the Krag-Jorgensen A. Our official name for that arm is " caliber .30 magazine rifle." Q. What is the difference between your caliber .30 magazine rifle and the .45- caliber Springfield, as it was popularly called? A. It is very little. I am not able to give you exactly, but is something less than half a pound. Q. How many cartridges does the magazine hold? A. Five. Q. What is the difference in the distance at which these respective arms are effective? A. Not very much. The extreme range of the two arms is about the same — say about 2 miles. The great advantage of the caliber .30 is the flatness of its trajectory and the greater '' danger space."' As against the 2.000 yards there is the blow struck by the larger bullet; it will do more damage if it hits anything. Q. And the larger bullet holds its velocity better? A. Yes, sir; the smaller one loses its velocity after 2,000 yards very quickly, and I think after 2,000 yards the larger ball is more effective. For the first 400 yards the trajectory of the .45 caliber is very good. Above that, until you get to 2,200 yards, the smaller caliber is better on account of the flatness of its trajectory. Q. For ordinary purposes, is the ordinary Spi-ingfield as effective in the hands of troops as the new .30 — that is, considering the distance usually had in effective w^ork? A. That is a matter for difference of opinion. Some prefer one and some the other. A very gi-eat and immediate question is the morale of the troojis; I think it is most important that they should think they have the best arm in the world. In the hands of new troops a Springfield is l)etter. as it is easier to keep in order. One point has had much stress laid on it, and that is the rapidity of the fixe, and there the criticisms on the Springfield are very unjust. Q. Is not the danger of the magazine rifte in the hands of " green" troops that they would fij.-e too fast and waste ammunition? A. Yes, sir. After a good deal of thought, as you know, we have been paying a good deal of attention to marksmanship the last few years, and probably our little Army is composed of the best marksmen in the world; but if you are going to hit you must aim. A man who picks out his object and loads and takes careful aim will not fire more than once a minute. Now, with the Springfield you can BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2853 fire 15 a minute. We only expect to use the magazine in an emergency. The magazine is to give him five cartridges, which he can use a little quicker than by reloading; but if the man will be trained as we want him that will be made a small matter. Very few soldiers will see the time when they need a magazine. Q. If you had smokeless powder in both rifles, what are the advantages of the Krag-Jorgensen over the Springfield? A. The reserve furnished by the magazine for use in a rush; then the flatness of tlie trajectory is a very important one; and I lay great stress on another — the weight of the cartridge is less and he can carry more. He carries 100 of the smokeless and 50 of the .45 caliber. Q. And then the soldier thinks he has the best arm in the world if he has a new one? A. Yes, sir. Q. Which, as you said, makes a very important difference to the soldier? A. Yes, sir. (^. What is the difference in the (quantity of powder for each? A. Forty-two grains and 70 grains are the charges; that is, 28 grains less on each cartridge. By General Beaver; Q. Suppose yoii reduce the caliber of the Springfield rifle, keeping the same simple mechanism, woiild it not l)e just as good as the Krag-Jorgensen, using the smokeless j)owder? A. That was a proposition before the Small Arms Board that adopted oiir maga- zine rifle, and it was carefully considered and rejected, because we were able to get a better rifle. We made a test and it was not a satisfactory one- By Colonel Denby: Q. Does the smokeless i^owder make a report, just as the other? A. Yes. sir; but it is a different noise. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What is the difference between the two in cost? A. It (uists me now aboiit $1 more than the Springfield when we stopjied mak- ing it. That arm would have cost me. three years ago, about $17 and, say, 75 cents; it now costs me $13.75; so we have it now to where the Springfield was when we quit. Q. Is the cost of repairs to the new arms»as much as on the Springfield? A. It should be, but we have simplified that. We are improving it — if this was a free discussion, I would bring in General McCook. By General Dodge: Q. Are you making improvements on the .30-caliber gun? A. Not now; we have made improvements in the manufacture. Q. But on the gun — is it different from the gun the board adopted? A. Yes, sir; there are some 17 improvements, and of those, four or five are radical. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Making the gun more simple and more accurate? A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. What is the difference between the bayonet of the .30 caliber and the Springfield? A. There are two liayonets. One was like the old triangular bayonet; then there is another called the rod bayonet — the ramrod can lie pushed out and the 2854 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. stock holds it in position, and the end is pointed and shaped to be used as a bayo- net. The caliber .30 is what is called a knife bayonet. It is a knife about 16 inches long. It can be taken off and used as a knife or to dig up the gi'ound for trenches and earthworks. Q. It is then a very much more effective bayonet than either of the others? A. Oh, I do not regard it as a better bayonet than the old triangular bayonet; biit this permitted us to discard the old hunting knives the Army had. C^. To what extent was ammimition issued to volunteer troops for target prac- tice, or was there any issue made for that purjiose? A. When it was called for. It was authorized, but I do not know what date; they had general aiithority given to all commanding generals to expend ten rounds a man per month. At first we did not dare to do that because we did not have sufficient sxipply. At first we were too miich pushed. Q. To what extent did the troops in the field avail themselves of the privilege of using ten rounds per month -per man? A. I do not know that; I only authorized that when the authority was given, Q. When was that authority given? A. Somewhere around the middle of the summer. Q. Dr. Conner wants to know to what extent you regard the bayonet as an effective weapon of offense or defense, considered as a bayonet? A. Governor, that should not be a question for me to give an opinion on. That would be more a question for officers of the line; but naturally I have paid a great deal of attention to the subject and I have seen them used a great deal dur- ing the war, but with the power of the fire of the modern arm there is very little chance of it coming into play. There is something to be said for the morale of the troops. It is valuable in guard duty; there is a little romance about it, and I shoiild think— it is my opinion — that if you leave it to the colonels of the regi- ments, and there was the ({uestion of the knife left out and it was only the bayonet, the majority of the colonels would discard the bayonet. Q. And thereby reduce the impedimenta which the soldier has to carry? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. What do you think in connection with the use of the smokeless powder as to the troops getting closer than they did vnth the ordinary powder? In a battle woiild they get closer together with the smokeless powder than with the ordinary powder? , A. It is rather a new question. For some reasons it might tend in that direc- tion, and others seem to prevent it; but I think not. By Colonel Sexton: (^. Has not the theory been that with the new powder there would be no more charging? A. It was to prevent it. Washington, D. C, December 10, 1S9S. Brig. Gen. Daniel W. Flagler recalled. By General Beaver: Q. When you left the stand the other day we were speaking of the coast forti- fications. Can you recall to what extent the gnns in these fortifications were furnished with ammunition at the time of the declaration of war with Spain? A. Yes, sir. Q. What is your recollection in that regard? A. First, I will state that we had not the amount of ammunition per gun either on hand or at the fortifications that we wanted, and I think I had better give you BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2855 a, history of the circumstances that led to that state of affairs, and then I will tell yon what they were. For the last seven years I have siibmitted each year to Congress an estimate of the cost of the defense armament; that is, guns, carriages, implements, and equipment projectiles and jjowder. That estimate has each year been cut down to the amount that we were able to produce economically anf" in the very best manner. It is limited each year to what the gun-carriage factory coTild turn out. The gun is the important matter and the foundation; and we have a gun-carriage factory and it is limited. We have a difficulty each year to get forg-ings to keep that factory employed; and then the carriages, and then the projectiles and ammunition. In making these estimates there has always been a conference with the engineers to find which guns and which carriages they wanted and to make oiir estimates agTee, so that we would furnish what they wanted. Now, it has been uniformly the case that Congress, for good and sufficient rea- sons, could not follow oiir recommendations. They had to be reduced because of the condition of finances or other reasons (which was none of my business) , and they were reduced. There would be always a good deal of discussion as to which items should be reduced, keeping all the time — to manage the affairs as well as we could — keeping the engineers supplied. In all the discussions that have come up there has been a prominent point, namely, if an emergency ever occurred we woiild be powerless, because it takes one and a half years to produce guns (two and a half for 12-inch, and one and a half for 10-inch) from the time we get the appropriations and get the forgings and get the gun manufactured; so if an emergency would arise we would be limited to the guns on hand. I have always urged to allow that gun factory to 1)0 fairly well employed, and have myself urged that if they did cut down to not cut down the guns, because we could hasten the manufacture of carriages much faster than the guns. We could contract with private companies throughout the country. It takes a long time to jn-oduce projectiles, but we can produce tliem faster than the carriages, and powder faster than the projectiles; so after the committees were tlu-ough with me they have made these great reductions in my estimates, and based on that knowledge, not on recommendation, b^^t on infor- r.iation that would be brought out in the discussion of the matter, I suppose, but for some reason or other very small appropriations were made for projectiles, scarcely anything for powder, and much less for carriages and guns. When the emergency did arise, the wisdom of that was shown, because we were able to get out the carriages rapidly as soon as we got the money; and the same way with the projectiles. That was the situation; but when we anticipated this trouble- it was as early as January— I set to work to furnish the guns that were mounted, and would be mounted by, say, the first of March, with what ammunition I could. I had little or no appropriation for that purpose. We had small sums for pro- jectiles, and issued at once to the fortifications about 20 projectiles. I issued 20 projectiles all around for the 8, 10, and 12 inch guns, and for the mortars I issued 5i- projectiles on the average. Of powder, I issued for the guns 61 rounds to the 8, 3 rounds to the 10, 5 to each of the 12, and 5 rounds to each mortar. Then I retained at the arsenal in reserve— I was able to hold in reserve— 27 projectiles for each 8-inch, 4 for the 10-inch, and 105 for the 12-inch (I will speak of that 12-inch later on),7i projectiles for each mortar; 5i rounds for each 8-inch, 4 rounds for 10, and 44 for 12, and 1 round for each mortar, of powder. The reason we had so large a number of 12-inch is that it is a most difiacult projectile to make, and therefore we devoted ourselves to getting these first. It takes longer than the others, but the carriage question had not been worked out until a short time after this thing occurred. We had mounted two 12-inch guns on gun lifts and then it was decided we could make a disappearing carriage for that gun. Although we had the 12-inch guns on hand, the fortifications were built but the guns were not mounted. There were three mounted on barbette 2856 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. carriages. We liad a large niTmber of rounds for these, but we did not have a large number of projectiles. That 13-inch carriage was pushed from the first as fast as possible and very soon we were able to mount enoiigh to consume all those l^rojectiles. What I had urged in my estimates before Congress was that I should provide 4.1 projectiles per gun (a portion of these are cast-iron, but a large i^ro- portion are steel); that is what I estimated for and I tried to procure, and about half as much powder. I don't like to keep that powder on hand. There is another jjoint that ought to be considered, We were working up the smokeless powder for a number of years. The whole world was at it and it takes a long time to get a satisfactory powder for each gun, and I didn't want to accumulate a great amount of black powder. As soon as we could arrive at satisfactory results in regard to smokeless powder I wanted to use that. I did not believe in having as much i^owder as projectiles. Powder companies can turn it out and it deteriorates if we send it to fortifications — they are in damp climates. We don't want to hold a large amount on hand. It is not necessary. We hold half as many rounds of iwwder as projectiles and keep the rest in store at central points — at arsenals, for distribution to those ijoints where they may be needed. Q. Instead of 45 rounds at which you aimed, what was the average? A. Well, we had generally considerable over 20 projectiles per gun, except for mortars. For mortars we had only about 9, and the amount of powder which I told you, which was very small. Q. Do you know by what time the ammunition reached the various points where it might have been needed for coast defenses? A. These amounts that I gave jon should have reached there in a few days. They were shipped, all we could lay hands on, by the 1st of March. Q. By the 1st of March? A. I .should think so. Q. You have no definite information as to the time they did reach the several points? A. It would be in my proix'rty retiirns of each post, when it arrived there. Q. As a matter of fact, is that gun factory kept constantly employed? Do you get enough appropriations to keep your gun factory economically employed; that is, all the time, with the number of hands that can work at it? A. It has not been so employed. The appropriations have been generally util- ized for either one-half or two-thirds of its capacity. Now we are ranningit full. I have sufficient appropriations now\ The approi^riations were usually cut down to not often less than one-half, and probably an average over one-half, and lately over one-half of what was needed to utilize the whole capacity of the factory. Q. It is a matter of economy, is it not. General, to use your plant to its full capacity, because of the investment which is made and because of the facility with which you can turn out the manufactured article? A. It is always a little more economical to run it full, because there are expenses not affected by the amount of work you do, generally fixed expenses, as manufacturers iisually call them, which remain, no matter how little or how much work jon do. Q. To what extent were you able to supply the department of engineering with the guns which they considered necessary for the proper defense of our entire coast? A. At no time, especially at the outbreak of the war. You can see that the engineer work, being scattered all over the country, they could employ jieople in large numbers at each point, and their ability to construct fortifications was practically unlimited, for they could get the money, Init it was not so with me. I made gun caniages as fast as I could, and as a general rule the Chief of Engi- neers, I think, limited his operations to what I could do, and naturally he was BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2857 somewhat ahead sometiiue after the outbreak of the war. but I think that gener- ally, except the 13-inch carriages, everything was furnished about as fast as he was ready for them; but if we had had the carriages we could have gone very much faster. Q. So that in the end the matter of coast defense comes down to this: That the engineers must depend on you for the guns, you must depend on your gun factory, and that depends on Congress? A. Yes, sir. I think I can safely say their ability was almost unlimited, but it was useless for them to go faster. Q. That is, to erect fortifications? A. Yes, sir. (^. About your ability to furnish armament A. [Interrupting.] It was limited to the factories of the country; to the ability of the people of the country to make carriages satisfactorily at reasonable prices; and I think generally the Chief of Engineers made his operations correspond, but he was ready for 13-inch carriages sooner than they could l)e provided; and I think in some cases the same was true in regard to mortar carriages. Q. Are they able to furnish more forgings than you can utilize? A. Not much more. The Bethlehem Company has a plant for large guns. That is the only plant for large guns, and they used some <_>f their forgings in them, l)ut we have many factories that can make the small guns, such as the field guns and rapid-fire guns, and the amount of work that could be performed has. since th(^ work was pushed, been limited to the capacity of the steel works. They of course ran extra shifts, nights, days, and Sundays, and turned out all the forgings they could. Q. And were you able to consiime all their x^roduct in your factory? A. In our factory and in the contracts we made with other parties it has been my ciistom to put the whole matter before Congress and urge it all I could, and there I said my responsibility ended. " Now I am before; you as your expert to give you all your information, and it is for Congress to act." We went as fast as our facilities would allow us. Each year the whole scheme was mapped out. " If we work to our capacity, we will get through in so many years. If you cut it down half, it will take twice as long; if you cut it down to one-third, it will take three times as long." By Greneral Dodge: Q. General, have yoii any suggestions to make or any testimony which jon wish to offer to us that would be iTsefiil to us in our inquiries concerning which you have not been especially interrogated? If you have, just make a statement as if you had been especially inteiTOgated thereto. A. I might make this statement. I don't know whether it is in the nature of what the commission would like to hear. Q. Make any statement you wish. A . One of the first questions asked me here was to ascertain whether I had had much experience in the supplying of arms. Now, it was the duty I was engaged on sijecially during our wdiole civil war. I was chief of ordnance in the Army of the Potomac. The question of what we could do, the conditions of the country in case of war, and whether we could meet the demands of the country for ord- nance and ordnance stores has received a good deal of my attention for many years, and I considered it part of my duty to know whether we would be able to supply volunteer armies, and in all the plans I have made and all the study I have given to the subject I have based tliem on my experience in the civil war— of the time required to raise, muster in, organize, drill, and prepare troops for the field— and I have tried to have the ordnance department ready as far as I was able to do so, and I believed we were able to arm and equip troops as fast as the 2858 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK, WITH SPAIN. country coiild make tlieiu into soldiers; as fast as tliey were ready to use the ord- nance and ordnance stores we could supply them. Generally speaking, I thought we were, and I think our experience in this war has shown that we were. The Rock Island Arsenal was huilt to meet the wants, but it was based on what we found in the civil war, and I have spent much time on it and have had my atten- tion directed to that when this war was on. But it is a fact that I have not been able to get the plant installed at Rock Island. Then, I always counted on a little warning. If I could have had a month's warning and been that month ahead, I would have had these stores ready faster than they were demanded, no matter how early demanded, but still I would have had them on hand; but as it was. we were a little behind the demand all the time. But the lesson learned is, I think, that Rock Island Arsenal is c'oinpetent to turn out all the eciuipment that can be wanted for a voliinteer army as fast as they can be made into soldiers. By Colonel Denby: Q. How many troops. General? A. Toward the last I was providing infantry eqiaipment at the rate of 8,000 sets a day, and if I can have my other plant ready there I am sure — I would like six weeks to get in workmen and to get material; there is a difficulty about get- ting material in this country; our materials are not the army standard articles; the commercial people must learn what they are to get ready — but in six weeks I think I could get ready to furnish eipiipment at that establishment for infantry at the rate of 10,000 sets per day and cavalry about 750 per day. We did not go as fast as that with cavalry e(iuipment, but in two months I had 4,000 work- men and we were turning out infantry equipment at the rate of 8,000 a day when the halt came. By Governor Woodbury: Q. General, if you had i^lenty of money, how long would it require you to fully equip all the coast fortifications already erected or in process of erection? A. It would require not quite six years. Q. What is the approximate cost of 10, 12, and 8 inch guns? A. The 12-inch is about $60,000, 10-inch about $30,000. 8-inch about $17,000. Q. Does that include the cost of carriage and everything? A. No, sir; I have had my mind so full of many things lately that I have lost the figures. These are roiigli approximations. By General Beaver: Q. Including the carriage, what would be the cost of a 12-inch gun? A. Twelve-inch carriages cost about $27,000 or $28,000. I know the 8-inch costs about $10,000 and the 10-inch about $17,000. By General Wilson: Q. In the discharge of the very laborious and important special duties that have devolved upon you in the last nine months, liave you met with cordial assistance from the other branches of the Department in your duties? A. I have. I can say that without any reservation. By Governor Woodbury: Q. And also from your suijeriors? And if not, state wherein. A. It has not been a question of support. I have not been prevented from per- forming my duties in any way. In the statement I was making to you of the condition of the country for taking care of the armies I only went as far as the equipment was concerned. Now, I have held that we ought Colonel Denby [interriTpting] . What do you mean by equipment? A. We have horse ecjuipment, cavalry, artillery, and infantry eipiipments. The equipments for the soldier are his clothing bag, or what is called his knapsack BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2859 his haversack for carrying his rations and his plate, knife, fork, spoon, canteen, etc. The horse equipment is a long list, but the principal items are the halter, the bridle, saddle, saddle bags, and a good many articles — boots and blankets, etc. There are about 35 small articles that I do not mention that go with it. These are articles I think it is imj)ortant to consider in this regard. I did not want to carry them on hand, and the question is. Is it desirable to have equipments ready for an emergency? I say no, because of the immense cost. They deterio- rate rapidly, and we are making improvements all the time, and if we were to change them we could not possibly get the money to carry equipment for a large army always on hand. It is desirable that we could, biit we would better be ready to make them, and the cost for being ready to make them is nothing com- pared with the cost of carrying them on hand. Of the small arms we ought to have a proportion of what woiild be required issued, but we want a large capacity for manufactiiring them besides. Q. Let me ask you. General, would you vary the equij^ment to meet the neces- sities of armies in the Tropics like Cuba, Porto Rico, and the Philippines? A. Not my equipments materially, but I presume the Government should; but that belongs to the Quartermaster's Department. Q. General, considering the inventions that are likely to take place in small arms, would it be desirable to have a very large stock of the present arms on hand in anticipation of future wars? A. I have recommended that this country carry about 500,000 standard small arms and have that many ready for issue. If the armory at Rock Island is com- pleted, that armory and the one at Springfield would be ready to tiirn out 500 arms per day. I estimate the capacity of the one at Rock Island, if the machinery is installed (there is nothing now but the building), at 2,000, and the building at Springfield is sufficient for 500. By General Dodge: Q. Is that in your present report? A. Yes, sir. Q. That has been acted upon? A. It has been published. Q. But not by Congress: that is, your recommendation to Congress? A. To the Secretary of War; it has. Q. That woiild go to Congress? A. It is not submitted to Congress. By Governor Woodbury: Q. It occurred to me that the possibilities of the next twenty-five years are such that there might be a change in our small arms, and we would not care to have on hand, and it seems to be your idea to have a factory to make arms so you can turn them out in case of war, and not have enough on hand for any war of large magnitude that might occur? A. I think that we ought to caiTy about 500,000, and then have this capacity for the manufacture which would be ready to be put in operation as .soon as war was anticipated. Q. Of any class of small arms? A. Yes, sir. By General Wilson: Q. What is the cost of the new magazine rifle? A. It is to-day costing $1.3.75. Q. In this new magazine rifle, do you find the enlisted men can carry that care- fully or are they turned back? 28G0 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Not from the Regular Army. They are able to take care of them. It is more a diflfic-ulty with the officer than the enlisted men. The enlisted men reqiiire gviidance from the officers. By Colonel Sexton: Q. The volunteers had very few of them? A. They did not at first. They have them now. By Colonel Denby: Q. If yon conld not ixse these articles on hand, could you dispose of them? A. We have always been able to dispose of them. Whether tlie world is going to change hereafter I do not know. Our great market was Central America and such countries as that. We sold to dealers, who supplied these countries. By General Dodge: Q. I want to ascertain if the Government lias the power to carry that out without an act of Congress? A. I will each year make estimates for funds to provide these .small arms. By Colonel Denby: Q. You don't use the Springfield rifle any more? A. We will hold it as a reserve until these others I have spoken of accumulate. Q. Can you dispose of the Springfield rifle now so as to get something for it to reimburse yourself — can you do that? A. Yes; but it should not be sold until we have reached this 500,000 supply of the standard arms. By Dr. Conner: Q. Wouldn't the Springfield rifle be the proper arm to issue to the States? A. It is so done, and it is proposed to continue that. <<^. Is it n(^t the best weapon that can be put into the hands of a State for State purposes? A. I think so, and I think the organizations of the diflierent States are confident that that is true also. Q. Flow large a number of the Springfield rifles would be required for issue to tiip United States? A . One hundred and twenty thousand. They were equipped with it before the war. By General Dodge: <^. [Referring to paper.] I understand you had on hand 185,000 Springfield rifles when the war commenced? A. More than that. Q. This says on hand September 1, 185,000. A. But I had issued a great many. Q. You had well on to 400,000 Springfield rifles that could be used by the Government? A. Yes, sir. Q. With this number of arms on hand — in the different camps we have been to there has been a general complaint as to the delay in receiving their arms. For Instance, you take the Third Division of the First Army Corps; it was August 1 before they were siipplied with the number of arms that they required; and you take the Second Army Corps, they also make the same complaint. What was the reason of the delay in those troops being armed with the Springfield rifle as promptly as they arrived in camp? The Witness. Did you say the Third Army Corps? BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2861 General Dodge. The first statement I made was in relation to the Third Division of the First Army Corps at Chickamauga. On July 1 they had 4,000 rifles; July 10, 9,000; July 30, 11,000; July 31 they required 385 rifles. The Witness. It might be interesting to go over that whole subject. When it was determined to call out the volunteers I found I had this matter to look out for. It was stated to me that uniformly they were to take the National Guard c(iuipment. The National Gviard was supjiosed to be armed and equipped. You remember they have an inspector, an officer stationed in each State, and we relied upon his reijorts, and we had reports that they would be ready to take the tield. I did not rely entirely upon it and made ijrovision to supply them. I was' met by this difficulty as to these arms: They were fiirnished to the States under the law for arming and equipping the militia, and some of the States bought their own arms. If these troops were called out as they were to be called out and were to take their own arms with them, as soon as they became United States trooi)S their arms and et^uipment fell under our charge. Under the law I retpiired them to account for them and they became United States property. How were wo going to settle with the States? I had jjrepared a general orfler to settle that matter which recpiired that each regiment should send to the Cliief of Ordnance a recpusition stating fia'st the number of men that it had, the number of arms it had, and the difference would be the number that it required. If I could get that reipiisition, I would then know what each State had furnished, and we must settle with each State in some way. We have to go to Congress this winter to settle that. I had furnished blanks for making that re(piisition, and I know of no simpler method on earth than to set down the number of men and the number of arms they had, and I would attend to the dilference, and if they sent me that recpiisition they woiild be shipped to them. I sent the orders to the governors of the States, adjutant-generals of the States, and every commissioned officer and the mustering officer who mustered them in. Now, as fast as we could get these requisitions they were filled. My responsibility in regard to that filling of requisitions ceased with the shipment of the stores. There was a good deal of trouble at Chickamaiiga. The railroad and their facilities for handling supplies became swamjied and they could not receive these articles. The officers were not used to the business and coixld not get their articles. I found out afterwards that when arms were shipped to one regiment, some one would take the responsibility of turning them over to some other regiment, and some of the regiments got their arms two or tlu'ee times. These are the exceptional cases, and they are x^robably the ones you heard of. But everything was dune by telegraph and within an hour. I would get one of these requisitions or find out what was wanted, and telegraphed to have the shipment made, and the shipments were made the same day, as a rule. For the corj)s out at Camp Alger we were able to attend to things a little better, and we got an ordnance officer out there who attended to his business and went and drilled the ordnance officers of the regiments in their duties and recpiired them to make these retiuisitions, and the matter was done in an orderly manner, and I learned from General Graham (and he was a hard man to satisfy) that he believed there was no case in which they did not get their articles in the ordnance stores. By General McCooK: Q. Suppose your recommendations had been.complied with to establish a supply depot at Chickamauga, what advantage would that have been? A. It would have relieved the matter very much. Q. Why was not that approved? A. I do not know. It rested between the Commanding General and the Chief Ordnance Officer. 28G2 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By General Beaver: Q. He subsequently, I think, made the statement that he made a mistake in not approving it. A. Yes, sir. I suggested that Columbia Arsenal should be placed at his dis- posal, and it was over the mountains and everything became choked. We had a good deal to do at the time. You ask why my recommendations were not com- plied with. I don't remember the correspc )ndence on that sub j ect . 1 suggested it . Q. We get that out of your own reports here. By General McCook: Q. Were you interfered with in any way by superior authorities in making con- tracts for ordnance supplies? A. I think I have no complaint to make (m that score. I could not say no, because it would be too sweeping a reply. Q. Have any contracts been made for ordnance stores or guns or arms that you have not recommended or not approved? A. Yes. Q. What were they? A. There was one for 10,000 Winchester rifles, and there have been in some cases some conti-acts for the armament for the fortitications. Q. How many guns? A. There was one case for some rapid-fire giins. Q. Had you experimented with those guns at Sandy Hook— models of them? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did they prove satisfactory? A. The one type that we had experimented with did not jn-ove satisfactory. Q. Do you know upon whose recommendations those guns were bought? A. Yes. By Governor Woodbury : Q. What guns were they. General; what was the defect in the guns or defi- ciency, so far as you know? A. It was the wire- wound gun. The one we tested failed. I woiild say the purchase was based on the recommendations of the chairman of the Board of Ordnance and Fortifications. By General Beaver: Q. Were any recommendations as ti) the purchase of arms made by you over- ruled or turned down? A. No; I was occupied for a time very much in ascertaining whether arms could be piu-chased satisfactorily— magazine arms— abroad. We found we could piTrchase arms, many of them, but they were not good enough. I f < )und no maga- zine arms, up to the standard reciuii-ed, could be obtained soon enough for our jmrposes. Q. Were those Winchester rifles issued to troops? A. They were not. Q. Where are they now? A. They are in store at the Springfield Armory. Q. What was the cost of these i-ifles? A. I don't remember. The cost was more than our rifles. I remember now: the price was §20.70 each. Q. Without saying anything in regard to the comparative merits between that and the new magazine rifle, please state whether you consider the Winchester a good rifle. A. I consider it a good rifle. BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2863 By Dr. Conner: C^. By whose order were those rifles purchased? A. The Secretary of War. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Upon whose recommendation? A. On the recommendation of the General of the Army. By General Dodge: Q. Were all the arms that were purchased— that yoii disapproved of— were they purchased on the recommendation of this Ordnance Board? A. No. Do you refer to the arms we were speaking of? Q. The other guns — the wire-wound guns. A. No. Q. Upon the recommendation of the Ordnance Board? A. No; not by the board, but upon the recommendation of General Miles. He is the president of that board. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Who composed the Ordnance Board? A . The General of the Army, an officer of the Engineer's Department, an officer of the Ordnance Department, an officer of the artillery, and a civilian. By General Beaver: Q. Contracts which were made independently of yoxi. General, were in the direction of getting more and of arming our troops more rapidly than could be done under the operations of your department? A. I have no information to the contrary. Q. As it turned out the emergency was not sufficient to aljsorb the arms that were boiTght; was that the fact or was it because the arms were not considered efficient that they were not issued? A. I never heard anything said in regard to issuing them. The question never came up. By Governor Woodbury: C^. Were you ever ordered to issue them? A. No, sir. Q. What time were they put in store? A. As fast as completed and inspected. I find on reviewing my testimony that the recommendation and instructions tliat these arms be purchased contained no stipulations as to rates of delivery, and the order for them simply stated that they should be delivered at the earliest possible date. Up to the present time 8,()0() of them have been dehvered and 2,000 remain to be delivered. I recall now, and in reply to a previous question understand I have to state, that on the recommenda- tion of the General commanding the Army I was also required to purchase thir- teen Sims-Dudley dynamite guns, carriages, and a supply of ammunition— 2,300 rounds. Q. General, we have had complaint made here by the adjutant-general of the State of Illinois, who was in Porto Rico, in relation to the delivery of .30-caliber rifles in Porto Rico of the manufacture of 1896 to the Third Illinois Infantry. He makes the statement and wonders why, if you had them on hand, they were not delivered to them before they went to Porto Rico, and makes the complaint that the troops were not properly armed while the arms were evidently on hand. Why were not their arms changed l:)efore they went to Porto Rico? A. It was not proposed at that time to change the volunteers' arms. Q. Only as they went into the field? 2864 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. No; it was not proposed to change them at all. They had been armed and equipped with the ,45-caliber Springfield, and it was not proposed to change the arms. About the time these troops were sailing for Porto Rico it was decided to change the arms of the troops that went to Porto Rico, and the arms were shippci' to be changed as soon as they arrived. Q. Wasn't it the intention to change the arms of all the volunteers that left these shores for Cuba or P(n-to Rico? A. No such intention up to that time. Q. Then we understand that the volunteers should go to Porto Rico and Cuba armed with the Springfield rifles? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the smokeless powder? A. Wo were then furnisliing smokeless powder as fast as we could. We had smokeless powder when the Porto Rico expedition sailed. Q. But did these troops th;it sailed for Porto Rico with the Springfield rifle have smokeless powder ammunition? A. They probably did not with them, but I sent the smokeless powder there. Q. For the Spring-fields? A. Yes, sir. Q. We have a good deal of complaint for the slow furnishing of tin plates, knives, forks, etc., to the troops. What was the cause of the delay in those matters? A. If you go back to my statement about the National Guard being armed and en them and they must come out not only as good for fighting purposes, but they must look as good as a new Springfield. If he got arms from the State the subject of separate parts was a difficult matter to deal with, because new officers could not learn in the short time about making requests properly and getting necessary separate parts and renewing them. It took time for some of them to learn that. The demand for the supply of parts became so exorbitant that in all cases they were not supplied, and there may have been a case of that kind. With him, he must have gotten separate parts as fast as wanted. There were cases where officers wanted separate parts and could not get them as soim as they wanted them. From my memory of it I don't think there was any interference with the efficiency of troops ready to take the field. Q. What was the gi-eat difficulty in obtaining the haversack and the belt — the cartridge belt? A. First, in regard to the haversack, the inability to keep up with the demand. We were a little behind, as I say; about a month, due exclusively to the fact that this country could not produce that duck. We could not get the duck. The cartridge belt is another matter. It is a tedious subject to explain it fully. Q. We would like to have the information. A. We adopted before the war for the United States Army a woven cartridge belt, which could be made by only one concern in this country, by a man who had a patent on it. I regard it as much the best method for carrying cartridges ever discovered by any nation, or better than any other army in the world. As soon as I could make any move at all in getting ready for equipment, and even before, I went to this company to see what they could do and would do to increase their output. Tliey had to procure peculiar and special looms, which took time to man- ufacture, and they did all they could to make them, and then I went to some other manufactiirers. There v/ere other woven belts, and as soon as I could I got many companies to making belts, but of those belts some were about as good if not quite as good as the one I discarded. These other belts were issued to the vol- unteers, but they wanted the same belt as the Regular Army had, and when issued they would be refused. But this company could not make belts faster. They had to get their looms. They went on as fast as they could. They could not supply one-tenth of them, and it made general dissatisfaction. They said they wanted the same belts the Regular Army had. We had to send troops to the fnmt so fast that I knew something had to be done and we bought such belts as were used for sporting purposes to carry the cartridges: that is, to give the soldier something, which was to be replaced by the new belts as fast as we could get them. I author- ized the purchase of an inferior kind, and as soon as I saw them I forbid their issue, but a few had been issued, and that created a good deal of talk. They were issued at Tampa. It took time to supply good belts as fast as wanted. It was the most difficult (luestion I had to deal with. Before the emergency was over we were furnishing them as fast as they were wanted. I proposed to give to the troops, until we could furnish these belts, our old cartridge l)oxes— special cartridge boxes, and I could furnish these as fast as they needed them, but I made up my mind I could nf)t induce officers to receive them. Ncme of them wer(' i-ssued. The only place 1 thought I might have to issue them was at Tampa; if any troops got there without belts they would have to take them in lieu of any other belt. That was a thing by itself. I wanted to give them the woven belt, and I gave them the best and nearest product corresponding to that that I could. BRIG. GEN. DANIEL W. FLAGLER. 2807 Q. Are you now making the .oO-c-aliber gun at the capacity of the Springfielil Armory? A. At the capacity of the Springfield Armory. We haven't any plant at Rock Island. Q. Well, as to the Board of Ordnance and Fortifications — haven't they recom- mended a different arm from the KJrag-Jorgensen? A. They have not. Q. They api^roved the Krag-Jorgensen? A. I don't know that the matter has ever been before that board. Q. I see the new board is trying to bring the tkree arms in the service together. A. Not (luite that. The scoi)e of that board was to ascertain whether it was desirable to liave a uniform caliber. They have nothing to say as to arms. The (ixiestion is whether it is necessary that the three branches shall use the same caliber. That board was apiiointed to determine whether we shoxild have a uni- form caliber of arms. By Dr. Conner: Q. General, in your jiidgment, is it wise that the present arrangement should continue under which the commissary furnishes provisions, the quartermaster transports them, and the Oi'dnance Department has to furnish tin plates, cups, forks, etc., that are used? A. I am very firmly of the opinion that we can do no better — ^that there woiild be no advantage in any change. The system is that which has grown up from actual experience in our army from the time we have had an army, and when- ever anything could l)e improved or any method had been thought to be improved it has been tried, and the present system is the result of constant trials to improve. Q. You think it wiser that the Ordnance Department should funiish what it does furnish? The statement was made to us as a gi-ound of complaint that the commissary furnished food and the Quartermaster's Department was called to transport it, and they had to rely upon the Ordnance Department for things with which to eat it. A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. You maintain a manufacturing plant now? A. Yes, sir. Q. The Quartermaster's and Commissary Departments do not? A. No, sir. Q. If the Quartermaster's Department and the Commissary Department did so they would have to maintain a plant sejiarate from the Ordnance? A. We furnish a portion of the equipment, and had better furnish it all. I base my opinion on the fact that the Army has tried all these things. The present system is the result of actual experience and not of opinion. By General Dodge: Q. We have the testimony of several colonels at Chickamauga, that they arrived at Chickamauga and had noanns and immediately made requests, and they would not be there in a month and even two months, and would not have arms even for the comx>anies to drill with, and their answer to our questions as to the reasons why that was, they could give us no reason why all their recpiisitions were not responded to and their requisitions received no notice. We have the testimony of one or two division commanders as to that also. If I got your answer clearly, it was that it comes from the fact that the States did not give proi)er notice that these troops needed these things: was that it? A. No. I gave you the reason, that I had to have a recpiisition. Now. when I got complaints that troops did not receive their ai-ms or had not received their 2868 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. equipment, it whs nniformily the case that I had not received any requisition for them. At first these requisitions did not come to the ordnance officer, hut they were sent to the arsenal direct; at the same time I iinderstood that tlie tran?;por- tation became swamped; that st Ordnance Department never informed of that fact, or of the fact that troops had already received their arms and had them taken away. Q. Here is a statement of a division commander: "A gi-eat deal of complaint of the First Regiment South Carolina Volunteers, about their equipments, arose from the fact that the regiment did not get its ordnance ecimpment until just before it left the division. The men ate with their fingers, or relied on such crude things as could be improvised out of tomato cans, for several weeks." A. I have no recollection of that case. No notice of that came to me. By General McCooK: Q. Had reasonable appropriations, or what you deem reasonable appropria- tions, been made for the f urnisliing of seacoast armament during the time you were in the office as Chief of Ordnance, at the time the war Ijroke out. he coast could have been properly supplied with arms and guns, approximately if not com- pletely? A. It would have been in a fairly good condition. We could have had the work about half completed instead of being in the condition we were in. The total defense jiroposed would make it practically impregnable. To have that was the thing. The defenses would have made it uncomfortable for any vessel. I think our defense would have been in fairly good condition. I think about half the armament would have been i)rovided for. Q. Are they being provided now with reasonable dispatch? A. Yes, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Have you any further statement to make or suggestion or information to give us that will be of interest to the commission or benefit to the service? A. I know of nothing else, except I was stojiped in the statement I was making in regard to my plants, aboiit being prepared for them in equipping arms in time of war. I got through with the infantry. I can not supply the field and siege artillery after war arises; we must have it on hand. I would jn'oiiose in that case, also, as I said before, to have on hand a complement of these guns. Q. Is that in this year's recommendation? A. I have been recommending that from year to year. I have been urging it on Congress also. I have urged 1,500 or 3,000 gnns on hand, but instead of that we have 150. Q. From your experience in this way, what suggestion have yoii to make for the future benefit of yoiir own department, if you have anything more than what is in your report? A. Nothing more than in my anniial report. The greatest difficulty is the hick of officers and these iilants that should be installed principally at Rock Island. Q. Those are the two principal suggestions yoii think would materially aid your department? A. One serious thing I labored under in this war was the small room for manu- facturing ammunition at Philadelphia. After the civil war we put iip there a very fine btiilding and improved that esta])lishment and increased its capacity; the building has been standing there without machinery. Ever since I have been Chief of Ordnance I have been urging a small appropriation by Congress of over $50,000 to utilize that building. We woulJI xnit in the fixtures and power and put he building in condition to use, and after that we would have to add the machines. MAJ. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2869 wliicli would take more money. That wmTld make the capacity of that building— I could have turned out 250,000 cartridges a day. From the little shed that has been there since the war of 1812 I have been able to turn out 32,000 a day. I got it last year, but too late to have that building utilized for this war. Q. Are you utilizing it now? A. I am putting in the plant. By General McCooK: Q. What is the basis of your smokeless powder? A. Nitrogenized gun cotton. Washington, D. C, December D, ISDS. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. DANIEL, M. APPEL. Maj. Daniel M. Appet, then appeared before the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereiapou duly sworn by General Wilson. By Dr. Conner: (^. Will you be kind enough to give us your name, rank, length of service that you have liad, at what stations, and what duties you have performed in the war with Spain? A. Daniel M. Appel; surgeon. United States Army; entered service August 5, 1«76. Q. The stations, please, that you occupied during the war, and what duties? A. I reported at Mobile on the 20th of April with the Eleventh Infantry and organized the division hospital there first: was placed in charge for the first few days. I was senior surgeon until Major O'Ueilly reported; then I organized the division hospital as soon as the regimental hospitals were broken up, about a week or ten days after the troops arrived there. As soon as Major O'Reilly was made chief surgeon of the corps, I was made chief surgeon of the division, first division of General Coppinger"s corps; that was about the 23d of May. I turned over the hospital to Major Viras, surgeon of the First Texas Volunteers. I remained as chief surgeon of the division while General Snyder, General Hoff- man, General Bates, General Schwan, General Slade, and finally General Keifer, were in command. I left with the division camp at Mobile after being there from the 20th of April, until, I believe, the 2()th of June, when the command or the whole division was ordered down to Miami. I was chief surgeon all the time the division was there and came witli the division up to Jacksonville, where tliey were ordered on the 7th of August, and remained there from about the 2r)th of July to the 7th of August. I was sick the last few days. Tlie day before we left I went on sick leave with a malarial attack of fever. I had been for two years at Fort Roots, on the Arkansas, where the whole command had suffered more or less from malarial fever, and then going down there to Florida, where there is considerable malaria at that season, I finally had an attack of gastral bronchitis and went on sick leave and came north with the command to Jacksonville, and was ordered up to Fortress Monroe. C^. How long did you stay at Fortress Monroe? A. I arrived on the 10th of August; left there on the liith, camo to New York City, since which day I have Ijeen there. I arrived there on the 201 h of August. Since then I have i>een in charge of all the sick soldiers that have been received in New York City and vicinity. 28T0 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. Q. Ami you are still on that duty? A. I am Htill on that duty. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us whether you had anything to do with the selection of Miami as a camp site? A. No, sir. Q. It was there before you heard anything about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. In your judgment, what sort of a camp site have you found it to be? If it proved unsatisfactory, what were the reasons which induced its abandonment? Please tell us in your own wa}'. A. There were a number of reasons that made it an unsatisfactory camp site. In the first place, there had not been sufficient notification in advance to prepare the camp. There was only a small space there at Miami available for a camp that had l)een previously broken, and in order to prepare a camp for this whole division, consisting of some 7,000 men, it was necessary to clear a large tract of land, which was mostly covered with very thick undergi-owth, and it is notorious that such clearing in a southern clime, in the summer season, is apt to develop malarial troubles, and it is against the laws of the State of Florida to clear ground between May and November; so, excepting the small tract of land in which the town itself is situated and along the land of the hotel, there was not enough ground cleared to locate the troops. Q. How much ground was cleared before the occupation by troops, and how long was such ground occupied by them? A. I can hardly tell you exactly how much; there were six regiments there; all the ground for the troops was freshly cleared. Q. And how long? A. We arrived there in the latter part of July, one regiment at a time: so I can not mention any particular date we got there. We arrived there in the latter part of July, and left there on the 7th of August. Q. By whom was this ground cleared, by troops or by laborers employed? A. By laborers, under the direction of an employee of Mr. Flagler: it was done at his expense. Q. Were the troops called upon at all to clear the ground for occupation? A. Yes, sir. Q. You established a division hospital there, I understand? A. Yes, sir. Q, Who had charge of it; yourself? A. I was then chief surgeon of the division; Major Viras had charge of it. Q. You had occasion to inspect that hospital sufficiently to be perfectly familiar with the conditions? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you be kind enough to state whether that hospital was fully provided with medical men, nurses, and supplies? A. It was fully provided with medical men. When we arrived there, there were four acting assistant surgeons. Major Viras, surgeon of the First Texas Vol- unteers, was a man standing high in the profession, and on that account I selected him to succeed me in the hospital. lie was a mast excellent surgeon, of experience and ability. The assistant to him was a lieutenant of the regular service. Q. The personnel, so far as you know, was .six medical men? A. Yes, sir: six medical men. Q. How many nurses, speaking generally? A. The number of nurses varied. At Mobile Q. I am speaking of Miami. A. At Mobile I selected imrses. and generally got them from the ambulance com- pany which was established there, but on the way down to Miami this ambulance MAJ. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2871 company was removed from the division and sent to Tampa to go vs^ith some of the troops embarking from Tampa, so that when the division came to Miami we had only such nurses as had been in the hospital there, which, at the time, were quite sufficient, because the most serious cases were left at Mobile in the marine hospi- tal. There were left also at Mobile a number of measles cases, but so many cases of that disease prevailed when we got to Miami, and they were in such a mild form, that I did not adopt any stringent efforts to prevent it. They were mild and not Rerious cases, and I think we had at times from 70 to 80 cases of measles. Q. How many nurses were there in the hospitals, or, to put it perhaps better, how many sick were thei-e under the care of a single nurse? A. There was one nurse to each tent. Each tent held from six to eight, some- times one or two more, but each hospital tent had a nurse— a day and a night nurse. Q. Was a single nurse by day and one by night sufficient, in your opinion, to take care of the men in that tent? A. Yes, sir. When they required others, a number of men employed on other duties assisted. Q. Was the nursing force sufficiently strong, in your judgment, at any and all times? A. Yes, sir; for the disease we had to cope with: there were no serious cases there. Q, Now, as respects the hospital supplies? A. The hospital supplies were at a large storehouse. C^. At the hospital were the men in tents and under shelter at all times? A. Oh, yes, sir. Q. The tents were floored? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was the hospital properly supplied as to the hospital utensils, with bedpans, thermometers for the use of officers, liypodermic syringes, etc. A. Yes, sir. Sometimes there was a shortage of thermometers. We got an unusual number, so much that I frequently called the attention of the surgeon to their not using too many. Q. Was the hospital properly supplied with medicines? A. Yes, sir. Q. Of all necessary kinds? A. Yes, sir; of all necessary kinds. Q. Was there at any time a shortage? A. No, sir. Q. Were you ever lacking in quinine? A. No, sir. Q. Wei'e you ever lacking in morphine? A. No, sir. Q. In calomel? A. Sometimes we had a very short supply, Imt then I bought it at the drug store. Q, Of strychnine? A. 1 don't remember any shortage in strychnine. Q. Do I understand you. Doctor, that you had a supply depot at Miami? A. We had a storehouse that belonged to the hospital. We made requisitions for six months' supplies. Q. Were they filled? A. Yes, sir. Q. Promptly? A. It was filled before we left Mobile. Q. Before you left Mobile— you took all the supplies with you? A. Yes, sir. 2872 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Was there, so far as you know, at Mobile any cases of neglect on the part of either the doctors or nurses? A. A few cases of neglect. There was one case — a nurse who got drunk, but of course he was tried for it afterwards. Charges were preferred against him, and he was tried. Q. Was proper care shown to the sick? A. Yes, sir. We issued orders for them to be sent right into the hospital. Q. From tlie l)eginning? A. Not from the beginning, T)ecaTise 1 had to have the ground 11 oored where the hospital was. Q. As soon as you began to have the liospital floored? A. When patients got sick on the way down, we got them into tents before the hospital was occupied. C^. Hov/ long was it ])er()re such system was in working order? A. Two weeks. Q. And your whole stay was only about 7 weeks? A. From June 2C} to August 7. Q. I asked this question because it was stated July 25 to August 7 and two- thirds of the time you had ordered such assistance? A. Yes, sir. Q. You found that satisfactory in every way? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there not typhoid fever at Miami? A. There were several cases of typhoid; on the way to Miami and afterwards, I think, we had something like 10 cases. Q. Were those cases isolated? A. No, sir. Q. Were they isolated in the hospital? A. We had what we called a typhoid ward, and as soon as it was possible to decide they were typhoid cases they were moved there, but it was hard to distin- guish between the low malarial fevers and the typhoid. Q. As soon as the distinction was found, separation of typhoids wasinade? A. Yes, sir; the cases that were indistinct I directed that diagnoses be made after the expiration of a few days. It was absolutely impossible to distinguish them at all times. Q. Was the hospital so supplied with medical stores as would enable the officer in charge to have the men properly fed? A. Yes, sir; at all times. Q. At all times and in all respects? A. In all respects; the chief cook was an excellent cook, selected especially for the purpose. C^. Were you able to supply your typhoid-fever patients with such diet as was necessary — milk, etc.? A. I got milk from St. Augustine in a refrigerator car at 87 cents a gallon. I ordered it from time to time. At one time we had a shortage in cots. A great number of the men bought cots. Q. The men in this hospital then, were they supplied with the proper diet— not only (luantities— such as was proper for them in their condition? A. Yes. sir. Q. No shortage of milk? A. Yes, sir; there would be occasionally, but not sufficient to make them suffer. Q. Was the hospital left for forty-eight hours without a supply of milk? A. No, sir; I am sure it was not. It was not left entirely, because wo got some from the neighborhood, it was never left twenty-four hours without milk. MAJ. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2873 Q. It is not a very easy thing to get milk in southern countries? A. It is very difficult. Q. How was it in respect to ice? A. The ice, in the first place, was secured from an ice plant there, but we could not get it in sufficient quantities, so it was brought down from the lake. Q. Did you have all the ice that was needed for the sick? A. We got 2,000 pounds a day. Q. The average number of typhoid-fever patients being? A. The average number of typhoid-fever cases was 80, without counting the measle cases, Q. Did you, or did you not, regard Miami as a proper site for a camp? A. I did not. It was a disagreeable and imcomfortable camp site. Q. Was it ever officially stated to you or did you in any way learn why Miami was selected as a camp? A. I understand that Colonel Greenleaf inspected it and approved of it. Q. How was it as respects the water supply? A. At first we received the same water that was furnished the town of Miami and I was given two analyses of this water, one made by Professor Chandler, of Columbia, and one by the University of Pennsylvania, which showed that there was a considerable quantity of vegetable and organic matter, but nothing posi- tively objectionable to it; but we found a very good spring on the outskirts of the camp, and as soon as possible water pipes were connected with this spring and a pump erected, and a tank, but it took a long time to do this, as everything had to be sent there. All of this work was done by Mr. Flagler's employees and at his expense. We had no regular quartermasters in the whole camp. They were all volunteers, and none of them seemed to know anything about putting up water pipes and tanks, and I more or less superintended this and directed that the camp be connected with the water, but it was not until the 25th of July that I could report to the division commander that the water could be got at this spring. Q. Did you, as chief surgeon, yourself observe or, as general surgeon, ever have it officially reported to you that the water supply was insufficient and not good? A, Yes, sir; frequently that it was insufficient because there was not sufficient pipes on the ground for the different camps, but there was always plenty of water, but not convenient to the camp. Q. Was the water hauled at all to the camps in barrels? A. It was not; no, sir; there were pipes leading to each camp, Q. Before these pipes were laid how were the camps supplied with water? A. There were pipes there before the troops arrived, Q. Well, why, then, do you state that the quantity was insufficient: because the men had to go from one regimental camp to another? A. Because the supply in the pipe was not large enough. It was located at the head of the hill and ran into the different camps some distance away, Q, Was that the fault of the pipe? A, No, sir; but the distance the water had to travel. I have a copy here of an analysis made of thedififerent wat-rs at Miami. It is the copy made in Washington. [This analysis was ordered filed as part of the testimony.] Q. These analyses were made by whom? A. Dr. W. N. Mew, in the Rurgeon-General's Office. Q. Was your attention at any time, officially or otherwise, called to cases of neglect and ill treatment of patients in that hospital? A. Yes, sir; there were a number of complaints. Q. Will you be kind enough to state their character? And if you know of any one specific case, please state specifically. A. There were a uunil)ei of minor complaints brought to uiy attention and made 2874 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. to General Piper, who was in command of the division, particularly by General Gordon, who commanded the Second Brigade. I investigated personally every complaint that he made about minor matters, and the last time that the General made a complaint against the hospital General Piper sent for me and mentioned that General Gordon had another complaint to make about the hospital. I then stated that I had then investigated every comjilaint he had made about the hos- pital and found them all sensational, most of them without any foundation what- ever. Q. Do yon remember any specific case? A. There was one complaint made, and it was on this occasion, that a nurse with a patient sick in bed, the patient having asked the nurse to give him some water, that the nurse had replied, " I will give you a club."' Major Arsenard. surgeon of the Second Louisiana, was in an adjoining camp, and he reported the matter. I called on Major Arsenard, and he then informed me that he had overheard this remark and he had at once gone in there. He was visiting a patient of the Second Louisiana at the time. He said, 'I asked what it meant," and that they both told him they were friends; it was only a joke; but he had in the meanwhile reported this to the general of his brigade. I interrogated the men and learned that it was simply a matter of a joke and no harm was intended in the matter. Q. Was there an agent of the Red Cross Association at Miami? A. Yes, sir; Dr. Kent. Q. Did he call your attention to cases of neglect? A. I do not remember. Q. Did he make any complaints to you of neglect? A. No, sir. I did ask Dr. Kent whether he could furnish any trained nurses; that I should prefer to have the typhoid cases treated l»y trained nurses, as mo-?t of the nurses I had were i-ecently transferred from the volunteer regiments, and ho agreed to furnish me a number of Red Cross nurses. Q. Did he do so? A. I received a telegram shortly afterwards from Lieutenant -Colonel Maus, chief surgeon of the corps at Jacksonville, dated July 27, 1898. reading as follows: ' ' Have you authorized employment of Red Cross nurses in the First Division hospital. Seventh Corps? If so, countermand the order." Q. To what extent was that hospital in Miami furnished with supplies, bedding, clothing for the men, medicines, and to what extent was that hospital supplied by the Red Cross Association, in which Dr. Kent was the representative? A. Nothing that I know of. The National Relief man sent a large supply— Dr. , an agent of theirs, was there a few days. After we had arrived there he asked if we could give him a list of anything outside of the regular supplies that he could furnish, and I gave him a list, such as pajamas, toothbrushes, etc., and things of that nature that the men were apt to lose and could not get supplied. Q. The patients in that hospital were properly supplied with clothing as well as medical attendance? A. There was always a surplus. Q. Did \oii find it advisable to use, or did you use, or did you have to use in the hospital sheets and pillowcases? A. I did not at first— I never heard of such in a field hospital. During the two months we were at Mobile we did not use them— I went with the Eleventh Infan- try. There were 35 sick. The other men marched to the train, but they were supplied with their own clothes and blankets. This division was expecting to go in the field, to go across to Cuba every day, so I did not ask for sh(>ets ;ind pillow- cases; I never had used them in a field hospital of twenty years' experienic C^. Were they at the hospital sooner or later? A. Yes. sir; thei-e were complaints that the men did not have sheets and pillow- cases. MA.T. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2875 Q. Were snch articles furnished by the Medical Department or by the relief society? A. Some of them may have been furnished by the National Relief Commission, but none by the Red Cross; but I know that the Medical Department supplied some; there may have been a shortage. We expected only to supply cots for 300 beds and we had as many as 340 in the hospital. Q. Was there any considerable number of men lying on the ground or on the floors of tents? A. We had at one time a large number of patients a^d men that were convales- cent that I thought could not go on duty for awhile. I advised Dr. Viras to have them lie in some of the tents unoccupied, but which were floored, with the same bedding, in addition to the floor raised from the ground; but these were only the convalescent, not the sick. Q. Was every proper care exercised in the policing of that hospital? A. Yes, sir. C^. It was clean, as you observed it? A. Yes. sir; and I frequently in my inspection asked other officers to come with me. Q. Did you or did you not have occasion to make requisitions for extra medical supplies while you were there? A. Oh, yes, sir. Q. Of course those reciuisitions were made through you; were they in all cases approved by you? A. All requisitions were approved by me excepting some proprietary medicines. I remember a great many, such as Ducrnt's Elixir, and several other proprietary medicines. Q. But all requisitions, all the requisitions on the supply schedule of the Army- were all such requisitions approved in full amounts by you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were the supplies received in due time? A. Yes, sir; the requisitions, if urgent, were always made by telegraph and sup- Ijlies sent forward by express. Q. From where? A. From St. Louis. Q. Did you have occasion to draw on the supplies at Tampa at all? A. No, sir. Q. Not at all? A. No, sir. Q. During the time you were in Jacksonville were you on duty? A. No, .sir. Q. When you left Jacksonville you came north to New York? A. To Fortress Monroe. Q. Were you on duty there? A. No, sir. Q. Then you came to New York? A. Yes, sir. Q. Are we to understand that since you have been in New York City you have Imd the supervision and responsibility of the sick in New York City? A. Yes, sir; the duty I was assigned there was the distribution and supervision of the enlisted men sick in the hospitals of the city and the vicinity. Q. So far as you are aware, what were the reasons to induce the Government to send its sick to hospitals in and about New York City? A. They first sent them to the military hospitals to which I distributed them until they were filled— Fort Wadsworth. Fort Hamilton, and Governors Island— 2876 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. and there were so many to he disposed of that the surplus from Montauk — con- valescents where they had not room for others— that they sent them to New York City and some to Philadelphia and some to Boston. Q. It was simply, was it or was it not, on account of the want of proper or sufficient hospital facilities on the part of the Government? A. Yes, sir; a temporary one, as I understand it. I was sent there after they had started to come to New York City fi-om Montauk, and some of them had arrived there before I did and were distributed in the hospitals. Q. Did you yourself see the men that arrived or were you simply informed that so many men were coming in? A. I made it a point to personally receive every transport and every hospital train that arrived in New York City, and distributed the sick. Q. Did you have anything to do with the .sick that came in over the Long Island Railroad? Did you see any considerable proportion of these sick as they came into Long Island City? A. Yes, sir; I saw every one of them. Q. There has been very great complaint as to the character of men, that is to say, it has been stated that a large number of men were brought into New York City suffering from typhoid fever in the second or tliird week, possibly some in the fourth week, stages of that disease; men who were unfit for travel and who were rendered worse by reason of such travel. Do you know anything about this? A. There were a large number of very sick men who came from Montauk when they were breaking up the camp. Q. Did they come by rail or by water? A. .Both. Q. Which, in your judgment, was the preferable way to send them? A. I prefer to have them come by water, as I always took them off the train at Long Island City on to a boat to distribute them to the hospital. You could take them to the pier in the river nearest the hospitals, and that move was saved by bringing them on the boat. Q. Do you or do you not know whether it was a necessity to send these men away from Montauk at the time they were sent? A. I think it was much better for the men. They received better care in well- established hospitals than they could have in the bleak, temporary hospitals at Montauk. Q. The advantages that would have been secured by putting them in properly well-organized hopitals, did they counterbalance the disadvantages made neces- sary ])y the removal of the sick men? A. Very largely counterbalanced. Q. In the majority of cases the advantages more than counterbalanced the dis- advantages? A. Yes, sir: not only in the majority of cases— I would say in all except two or three, who got sick after they started. Q. Did you see any cases that were moribund at the time they came under your observation? A. Hardly moribund; some of them were unconscious and delirious. Q. Was it or was it not, in your opinion, good judgment to send delirious typhoid patients away to hospitals to which they were taken which were even better than the one from which they were taken? A. I can not think that it was not good judgment. I believe it was good judg- ment to send them where they would l)e better nursed and cnred for. Q. Notwithstanding the manifest risks of moving an individual under those circumstances? A. The moving was done with so little inconvenienc(\ Tliey were brought down on the cots lying in the ho.spitals. never being taken otil' the cots. MA J. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2877 Q. But were not these men subjected to the jarring of the train and the swing- ings of the boat? A. I do not think that was a serious objection. Q. Was your attention officially called to the fact that men were found wander- ing about the streets of New York in a serious ill condition? A. Yes, sir; I think that can be readily explained by the fact that most of the cases had relapses after they were convalescent. A number of cases that I fur- loughed were taken sick at the station, and T made it a rule not to furlough a man who was not sufficiently well to come to my office to get his transportation with a certificate from the doctor at the hospital that he was able to travel. Q. Is it an unusual thing for these changes to take place in typhoid cases? A. A relapse? It was the rule among these cases. Q. Were these men in all cases supplied with a descriptive list indicating name, rank, and company, and nature of disease? A. In all cases. I brought here specimens of tlie descriptive list showing the way in which I kept a record [see Exhibit C] of those I sent away, on showing the disposition made of those cases. Exhibit C — Descriptive list. Haring, Robt. E., pvt., Co. E, llth Inf. Arrived from Porto Rico on Relief Aug. 2()th, 1898. Received at L. I. College Hosp. Aug. 20th. Diagnosis: Typhoid fever. Disposition: F. Sept. 17th, 1898, ;J0 days; Johnstown, N. Y., 65 E. Main st. [Descriptive list sent to regt. adjt., Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 30th, ISOS.] Gokey, Jess, pvt., Co. B, 2nd Wis. Arrived from Porto Rico on Relief Aug. 20th. Received at L. I. College Hosp. Aug. 20th. Diagnosis: Malarial fever. Disposition: F. Sept. 8th, 1898, IJO days; Oshkosh, Wis., 142 Main st. Q. I am speaking now of the men that you received, not those that you sent away. A. When the descriptive lists were received they were noted on the cards. Q. The point is this, Doctor, that it has been said that a great many men came down with either no transfer slip, no diagnosis card, or a diagnosis which proved to be erroneous. Do you know anything about it? A. At first there were men brought down on the steamer Shiunecoek without any lists. Q. Was it either in accordance with the regulations or was it to the best interests of the men that they should be sent away withoiit any notification of what had been supposed to be the matter with them or what had been done for them? A. The regulations reiiuired a transfer slip with an outline of the history of the case. Q. Was any reason ever given to you, officially or personally, why men were sent away from the Montauk hospital without these notifications? A. I never asked for an explanation. Q. It never was given you? A. No, sir. Q. You have already stated that it was in accordance with tlie regulations, and therefore you miTst necessarily see that it should have been furnished. A. I assumed they had been delayed, because the Shinnecock brought down between '3Q0 and 400 patients at a time every other day. Q. Was there not time enough between the several trips of this vessel to find out who was to go, and see that every individual was properly prei ared for the trip? A. I was never at Montauk, so I can not tell you. 2878 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Was the flistribiition of patients made at the New York hospitals, or was it matle in accordance with instructions from Washington — the Surgeon-Generars Office — or was it made by yourself, acting upon your best judgmentV A. I never received any instructions; I received from each hospital the reports of the number of vacant beds, how many they could accommodate, and made it a point to place the patients at thn most convenient places desirable. Q. Were offers of hospital beds made which were declined by you? A. There were quite a number of offers made that I did not avail myself of, because I always had more room than we had patients. We never were short of beds. I received a number of offers for hospital beds, but there was such a large number that I could not use them, as I did not have enough patients. Q. And the selections were made by yourself, according to your own best judg- ment? A. Yes, sir; according to my own best iudgment. In fact, I was told I would not be interfered with, as I was on the ground. Q. Did you have occasion to officially report either to the chief surgeon at Mon- tauk or to the Surgeon- General's Office that men were sent to New \ ork not fit to travel? A. I never made any official report on it. Q. Although you have already answered the question in a large measure. I woul'd like to ask the question if you saw any men, in your judgment, that should have been kept in Montauk who were sent away; the i^atients that I speak of, who were delirious and unconscious? A. I do not think so. I do not know what the conditions were at the other end. Q. Were the men in the several hospitals in charge of Government physicians? A. No, sir; under the charge of the hospitals" own physicians. Q. Were these men properly cared for at the hospitals? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were these hospitals properly supplied with doctors, nurses, and with food supplies? A. Yes, sir. Q. It has been said that men were badly fed and illy cared for, especially at Fort Wadsworth: do you know anything about the condition of affairs there? A. Yes, sir; I went in the hospitals there and the men were perfectly satisfied and well cared for. C^. Did you have any complaints of the men that were at Bellevue? A. Yes, sir: from the visiting ladies, that these men were being cruelly treated. One case especially I remember, in which a prominent lady of New York came and gave me the names of two men who were in a certain ward at Bellevue. and said that they were being cruelly treated: that the nurse had struck one, and she was very anxious to get them away. She left their address. I looked up the men's cards and went to the hospital, and. after speaking to one or two in the hos- pital, I went up to these two men and asked them how they were. They were in the Sturgis pavilion of the Bellevue Hospital. I told the men that if they wished it, I would have them moved over to the Roosevelt Hospital, but tiiey both begged and prayed with me to let them stay where they were. The father of one of them — they both came from Michigan — caine down to my office the next day and added his entreaties that his son might be left to stay where he was until ready to go home; that he was perfectly satisfied there and got everything he wanted. Colonel Skxton. What was the name of that prominent lady in New York? We might have had her as a witness. General Beaver. I dont think she was a witness. By Colonel Sexton: Q. You can give me her name, can't you? A. If you wish it; the name is Mrs. Arnold. MA J. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2879 ])y Dr. Conner: Q. Da you know whether or not any public notice was taken of this neglect and abiis'! o!' sick soldiers in Eelleviie Hospital? A. Public noticed Q. Yes, sir; we bad a great many public notices — newspajjers and others — of the neglect at Montauk and at various Government hospitals. I would like to ask you if these cases of alleged neglect in Bellevue were called attention to pub- licly, as far as you know? A. These cases that I just spoke of were made public. Q. It was published? A. Yes, sir; at the time. A newspaper reporter was in my oftice when this lady came in and spoke of it. (^). Of the neglect in Bellevue? A. Yes, sir; the alleged neglect. Q. Now. as respects the Government hospitals. Are we to understand that all three of these New York hospitals were proiJerly organized, administered, and properly cared for? A. Yes, sir; there were four hospitals. Q. I only remember three. What was the name of the fourth? A. Bedloe Island. Q. Now, General Dodge requests me to ask, and I ask you, whether you knew thf)se delirious patients, and if you knew anything of their condition when they left Montauk? A. Simply knew the history of the case. Some of the cases I got transfer slips of later. Q. Later; not at the time? A. 1 mean later in the month. The patients that came later, those that came later, not until September, later in the month„ Q. Were you able at all times with these delirious patients to satisfy your own mind that they were not delirious, but were apparently in a condition to have left Montauk without any danger? A. I never inquired into that. My duty with the men was that I distributed them to the hospitals. I was met at the different docks by the ambulances of the hospitals and turned the patients over to the doctors and they took them to the hospitals and cared for them. Q. You had no occasion yourself to verify the diagnoses? A. I had neither time nor opportunity, and I could not do so. Q. Do yoa know whether your attention was officially called to the fact that in a large number of cases the stated diagno.sis was an erroneous one, determined to be such after their arrival at the New York or Brooklyn hospitals? A. A large number of cases were diagnosed as malarial which turned out to be typhoid, but most of the cases had both. Q. Have you ever known of an error being made in a case of any of these soldiers sent to hospitals in New York or Brooklyn? A. An error may have been made. Many of the patients in tne hospitals were under the supervision of some of the most prominent men in New York City at the time. Q. Then it is not altogether owing to the want of intelligence or observation that errors in diagnoses were made in Montauk? A. Certainly not in those cases. Q. As respects the sending of men away from New York City to their homes. North, South, East, West; did you have charge of that? A. I had entire charge of it, except from the Government hospitals, from which they were to be sent by the i)ust surgeons. Q. What provisions were made for their transi^ortation? A. When they came with their certificate from the surgeons of tlie hospitals 2880 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. that they were able to travel, if I considered they were cases for fiirlough, they had to come to me to get their furloughs, when they were given transportation and one dollar and a half a day travel rations. Q. Was that done in all cases? A. Not in all cases; some cases were sent to regiments; some cases belonged to regiments which were mastered out of the service; these were simply ordereil there and given transportation. Q. Were any men who looked sick sent long distances by rail on furlough with- out sleeping-car accommodations? A. To every man that looked sick I would give a sleeping-car accommodation. A number of men came from the hospitals that looked to me too sick to take long trips, and those I sent to a military hospital to rest before they were fit to travel. Q. Do you know of any instance of sick men being sent away from New York City, able to sit up, when sent a long journey without being furnished with sleep- ing-car accommodations? A. Frequently. Q. I mean men who were sick, not so sick that they could not sit up, but too si<'k to stay up for a period of thirty hours. A. All cases that came to me from the hospitals I would give sleeping-car accommodations to if they were fever cases; of course if they were surgical cases they would all get sleeping-car accommodations. Q. Do you know of any case in which a man was sent as far west as Chicago who was so sick that he could not sit up and not provided with sleeping-car accommodations? A. Not from New York City. Q. Were any sent away from New York that you were not familiar with? A. There were quite a number of men who received furloughs at Montauk who would come to New York and who might have relapses. Q. So that men who have been cared for either at Montauk or other points out- side of New York City, or the hospitals of New York City, might travel when unfit to do so, and that without sleeping-car accommodations? A. There may have been, sir— men who had a relapse after they left on furlough, and who stayed in New York to visit their friends. Q. Were the hospital trains, as you observed them, properly equipped, properly officered, properly supplied with nurses, and the patients properly cared for? A. Yes, sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Could any medical foresight or knowledge have foreseen that these men who had relapses were unfit to receive a furlough? A. Of course, that is a matter of judgment. Q. Could any medical foresight determine that an individual, apparently at this moment fit to travel, will in the course of so many hours have a relapse? A. No, sir: it is impossible. Some may have two, three, or more relai)ses. Q. Do you know of any complaint having been made in regard to the care of men on these hospital trains? A. No, sir; not on the hospital trains— the real hospital trains. Q. Did any men come under your direct observation who had been brought north on so-called State hospital trains? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us in what condition you lound the men, and particularly, if you remember it, refer to the case of a New York train on wliich a Dr. Lindheim was surgeon? A. I received that train on the New York Central Railroad, and I congratulated Dr. Lindheim on the care he had taken of the patients and as to the condition of MA J. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2881 • them when they arrived. There were a number of complaints made and tele- grams came relating to the poor condition of the soldiers, so T was particularly careful to go there to meet the train and observe the condition of his men. I con- gratulated him upon the excellent care he had taken of them on the way. Q. There was no evidence, then, that he had neglected his business? A. No, sir; I think that there was much credit due him. Q. In respect to any other State trains, did you see the New Haven train which came through? A. I did not see any train that went through. I received the Eighth New York and all the trains thai came into New York; none that went through. Q. Did you find on any one of those trains evidence of neglect? A. No, sir. Q. Looking over the report of Dr. Kent, he refers to the water being unpalat- able; he did not like the taste. " For God's sake please remedy it if you can.'' Is that true? "It was very uncomfortable and disagreeable; the condition is piti- able.'" What have you to say in regard to this? A. No: I would not call it pure in any sense. Over 10 per cent of the force I had before I left were sick. There were at one time over 1,000 on the sick report, but they were chiefly measles cases or very slight ailments. The cam]) itself was so enervating that very slight cause would make the men sick. I remember at one time investigating the cause of the sickbess in the First Texas— the First Texas I considered the best volunteer regiment I have seen in the service— and the surgeons of that regiment were particularly efficient and careful, and I found that several hundred of the men hrid had an attack of cuecarisa, a slight fever, and in two or three days they were well, but there is no question about the fact that the camp was so debilitarious that the response of the system to any slight ailings was much encumbered. Q. In your judgment as a medical officer of long experience and as a physician, is it wise to encamp men in Florida during the summer anywhere? A. Decidedly not. Q. In this connection reference is made to mosquitoes. Were you supplied with mosquito bars in the hospitals? A. For the first three weeks there were no mosquitoes, then the pests came on suddenly, when I bought mosquito nets and fastened them in the tents, but the men had none and they suffered a great deal— the men in the camp, I mean. Q. Was it practicable to use mosquito bars in the hospitals in Florida in the summer to any large extent? A. Not to any large extent; it was too warm. There was so little breeze that you wanted to get all you could. There were no flies for the first few weeks, and there were no mosquitoes. Q. You have spoken of the First Texas, I think? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the condition of the Second Texas? A. The Second Texas had more sickness than any other regiment in the camp. Q. Do you know any reason for that? A. No; I was unable to ascertain the reason. I telegraphed Dr. Porter, the State health officer, and the doctor who was in charge of the marine hospital in that section to come and assist— to do what they could. Q. Were the cases serious or light? A. The cases were very light. At the time we were in the camp there the newspapers reported that the men were dying by scores every day. Q. There were 12 deaths? A. Twelve deaths in a camp of 7,000 men. Of those 6 were typhoid cases who were sick when they came there; two of them (surgeons) committed suicide, and 3 7833— VOL. G 31 2882 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. died of dysentery. Those were all the deaths reported in the camp. In the niontli of July, in lower Florida, I consider that the results in that respect were very excel- lent. There were complaints about the site of the division hospital, biat the hos- pital attendants themselves, the men living in the hospitals— the stewards— hardly any of them were sick — in fact, 1 considered it the best site in the whole of the town, and the percentage of deaths was very small. By General Dodge: Q. Did you ever have called to your attention while you had charge of the hospitals in New York City a statement that ;!0 of our f urloughed men were picked -up in New York by different societies or surgeons there and placed in the hos]>i- tals? I have a statement from a Dr. Galealend, who had charge of the Woman's National Relief Association. It was testified to before us in New York by Dr. Stimsou. A. These men were picked up— there were a large number of men picked up— these were the cases I just spoke of, men in the hospitals who stayed there, and men who would come down to my office and whom I would send to one of the Government hospitals and who would have a relapse— it was the riile. Q. There was a serious charge made against thefurloughing of men at Montauk before they were ready to travel and that as a consequence the statement was made that these men were picked rip on the streets of New York City, lying there, being ill with typhoid fever. A. There were cases of relapses; in fact, a great many men were sent to me for furloughs who after they received their furloughs had a relapse. Q. Would you consider the fact that these men who were picked up in New York City after they had been f urloughed as evidence of neglect or of improper f ur- loughing at Montauk? A. No, sir; decidedly not. I think it was unavoidable under the circumstances. By Colonel Sexton: Q. What percentage of the men who were f urloughed after having typhoid fever had these relapses? A. It is impossible for me to say, because I could not follow up all the men who were furloughed. Q. About how much? Was it a large per cent or small? A. A large per cent of men had relapses, but a great many were not furloughed. Q. I say after men who had typhoid fever were furloughed, what percentage of those men had relaiises? A. I do not understand. General Dodge. Not particularly typhoid-fever patients, but those who had malaria. A. There are men now still in the hospitals who came there in July and in August and who liave suffered relapses. Q. The charge, Doctor, is made that men were furloughed that ought not to have been— you state that many of them when they received their furloughs were in proper condition to travel, but had relapses? A. Yes, sir. Q. If the larger per cent had relapses, you would not have been so willing to act? Many of these men certainly traveled and were all right? A. Many of them did not have relapses, and many of them had relapses before they got their furloughs. Q. After they recovered, then, from their relapse they went on furlough? A. Yes, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. Do you know whether or not the Red Cross Society supplied all the milk and all the ice used in hospitals at Montauk when you were there? A. No, sir; we were getting ice before Dr. Kent arrived. MAJ. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2883 Q. Were you supplied with bedpans in sufficient number for your hospital? A. There were plenty in the storeroom. Q. With ice bags and water bags? A. I do not think we had much use for water bags. Q. Do you know anything of the case of one Charles Barrow, of Company N, in a Louisiana regiment, either of the First or Second Louisiana regiment? A. There were a great many complaints from that regiment — both Louisiana regiments had no regular officers. Q. The man was so seriously ill with typhoid fever, bed sores, etc. That was not likely to occur with malarial fever? A. Somewhat in those low malarial fevers. Q. It was an infreixuent occurrence, was it not? A. Yes, sir; decidedly. Q. Do you know anything about this case? And further I would say to you that it is reported that the doctor attempted to give him morphine with a broken nee- dle. Was any such case brought to your notice? A. No, sir. Was this at Jacksonville? Q. It was at Miami. I understand in Colonel Maus's testimony he stated that the division that had been at Miami had less sickness than the others. You know nothing about this case anyhow, do you? A. No, sir. Q. I will ask you if you think that it was advisable if this statement is correct? A. I have circulars here that I sent out to the different hosiJitals showing my position in the matter: "Army Building, "New York City, , ISLiS. " To the Superintendent Hospital. " Dear Sir: Inclosed please find blanks on which accounts for medical services rendered sick and wounded soldiers are to be prepared in duplicate. '• The account must show each case separately; that is, the full name, rank, and regiment of the soldier, the time during which he was treated, the number of days, the disease, the charge per day or week (not to exceed $1 per day), and the total amount. They must be certified by the proper officer of the hospital and then sent to this office. " Very respectfully, , " Major and Surgeon, U, S. A." "Army Building, " Netr York City, Qetober S, i.vy.v. " To tlie Sujierintendent Hospital. " Sir: I have been instructed to allow no more soldiers now in the hospitals in New York City and vicinity to go to convalescent homes. " Please direct all those under treatment in your hospital to report to me when they are able to travel, and send them a notification of their discharge and the diagnosis. " Very respectfully, , " Major and Surgeon, U. S. Army." "Army Building, ''New York City, November 14, 1S9S. " The Sxiperintendent , Hospntal. "Sir: I have been directed by the Surgeon-General to procure copies of all records, including temperature charts, of all soldiers treated in civil hospitals. Authority is given me to pay for same at the rate of 10 cents per cap page. "Please have such copies made of all records of those treated in your hospital. " Very respectfully, ''Major and Surgeon, U. S, Anny." 2884 INVESTIGATION OF CONUUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Did you have anything to do with the men that came up on the transports from Santiago? A. Yes, sir; those who arrived in New York City since August 20. Q. Since August 20; that included the Senccd, which arrived at Montauk? A. That boat arrived before I was in charge. Q. What transports came to New York after you had charge of the reception of the sick, do you remember? A. Quite a large number— the 3Ii)mewaska, the Missiii.si2>2)i, the (Jlxhiii), the Portlaiid, and Midtigav. Q. Were you in charge of the ofifice at the time the Obckivi came up, when Dr. Seaman was in charge of it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you be kind enough to tell us what you know about that? A. Why, I went out to the ship after it arrived at (luarantine, and most of the men seemed to be doing nicely and were well satisfied with the treatment they had received. Q. Was there any evidence that there had been suffering on the part of the men in conse(iuenc-e of the want of proper food and medicine? A. I believe there was no complaint made until at that time; the only coniplaint was from Dr. Seaman, who said that he had to get his supplies from the Red Cross and the National Relief Association; that they got none from the aovernment. But I believe he explained that since by saying that what he did receive was from the hospital ship Relief, and he thouglit that the Relief belonged to the National Relief Association. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did he make that plain to you at that time? A. Yes, sir: he had an interview which was held at my office, in the room adjoining mine. Q. Did you hear that interview? A. Yes. sir. Q. How correctly was that report in the papers? A. I have heard him make the same remarks that were reported, as I stated in a letter to the Surgeon-General after the interview was held in my presence. By Colonel Sexton: Q. And the newspaper men reported it about as given? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was he sober? A. I think so. He came up again this week with his regiment, and he had no complaint to make, he said. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Was he in good mental balance at that time— did you consider him such, or was he laboring under undue excitement? A. I think he was rather nervous. I don't think he was quite right. He natu- rally was of a nervous temperament. He had been worried more or less and had not been well. 1 don"t think he intended to make a deliberate misstatement. By Dr. Conner: Q. We have heard, Doctor, a case of an alleged receipt given by Dr. Seaman to Dr. Bradley, brigade surgeon, for certain articles of hospitals. Will you kindly look at it and see if it is the copy of the one which you know to be official? A. Yes, sir. This was signed by Dr. Bradley himself. All such papers were sent to my office, because I am looked upon as being in charge. Q. That is a correct copy, so far as you know? A. As far as I remember; I immediately sent it to the Surgeon-General. MAJ. DANIEL M. Al'PEL. 2885 Q. Have j'Oii anything to do with the transferring of men from Montank who arrived in New York— the men on furlough? A. Not the men on furlough. Men who came down on the steamer Shiiinccock and the hospital train, I transferred those men. Q. Were those transports, as you observed them, properly supplied with goods and medicines necessary for the care of the sick? A. I had very few complaints; in fact, as a rule, the men all said that they had improved very much since they started from below. The men sent up as conva- lescent arrived in New York well and ready to go away. The last hospital ship, which brought 270 cases — 84 were older cases — and I think of these 172 received their furloughs. Cj. Did you yourself observe anything which would lead you to think that the ships had not been properly provisioned, had not been supplied with medicines needed for the trip; that the men were not cared for by a sutncient number of med- ical officers, or the medical officers were sufficiently competent? A. No, sir; nearly every transport wanted to know what to do with their surplus. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Please state as to the condition of the sick that were brought to New York in the Shi)inecock, whether they were in condition to make the journey, and if not, what the exceptions were. A. I think that was included in the question of transferring men from Montauk. They were so well cared for on the Sliinnccuck that 1 don't think the condition of the man would make any difference in his transfer. The SJiinnecock is a boat that was especially chartered at $1,000 a day to bring those men down — selected on account of its being so well adaiited as a hospital ship. She was so for twenty- two days, I know, and the vouchers were signed for §22,000 for that time. The following letter from Ernest C. Schultz, dated Now York, December 5, 1898, was then read and ordered filed as part of the testimony; "Maj. D. M. APPKh, Surgeon, U. S. Army. "My Deau Sir: My attention has been called by some remarks made by Dr. R. M. Terry, surgeon -general of the New York State National Guard, before the war investigating commission, which I think produces an erroneous impression. "Speaking of the hospital ship ivc/ /t/ and of the relations between the distin- guished surgeon, Dr. Nicholas Senn, who was on board, and the ship's staff, Dr. Terry says this ' eminent physician and professor of a medical college should have been consulted with reference to operations. ' " Dr. Senn was invited to all operations and consulted in all important cases. He must have known that the ship's staff was proud to have him associated with them, and frequently they applied to him for advice, which he invariably gave readily and evidently with much pleasure. The young physicians voluntarily and gladly showed him cases of interest and assisted him in compiling data and his- tories relating to them, not only as a matter of respect and courtesy to one so eminent, but also as a tribute to and acknowledgment of his skill. "Dr. Terry makes the further statement, alisohitely without foundation, that in one case in which Dr. Senn was not consulted an unnecessary amputation was performed. The facts are as follows: A soldier was brought on board suffering from a compound comminuted fracture of the left thigh, which had been dressed on shore. The bones seemed to be in good condition. The splint was comfort- able, and the temperature, pulse, and respiration were normal. He was thei'efore disturbed as little as possible. The condition remained satisfactory until the morning of the third day, when fever and symptoms indicating blood poisoning were observed. By night his condition had become so much worse that the young physician held a consultation with the two senior medical officers of the ship, both surgeons, majors of the regular service, and were of large experience, at which it 2886 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. was decided to remove the dressings and examine the wound at once. This was done that evening, and a mushroomed Mauser bullet, shreds of clothing, and numerous pieces of bones were removed. As the injury was so serious, the wound evidently having been infected, and there being considerable doubt as to whether, owing to the- loss of bone, the fragments could be expected to unite and leave the patient with a serviceable limb, the question of amputation was carefully con- sidered. However, as the ship was only two days from New York, the man was given the benefit of the doubt, and his limb was not amputated. "He reached New York in good condition, and although Dr. Terry cites this case 'to show that some of the young physicians in the war did not always go about their work with intelligence,' the man's leg was saved. " Very respectfully, "Ernest C. Schultze, ''Late with U. S. Hospital Shiji Relief." Q. Doctor, have you any knowledge of the matters referred to in this letter- personal knowledge? A. None, personally. Q. Do you know Dr. Schultze's signature? A. It was delivered to me personally by him. By Dr. Conner: Q. As we understand from you this morning, you had charge of the disposition of the sick in New York; that is, selecting hospitals to which they were to be sent and sending them there. Is that so? A. Yes, sir. Q. What were the reasons which induced you to send men to one hospital rather than to another? A. 1 was actuated principally by the facilities for reaching the hospitals, if tliey were all e(iually good. It was not my place to distinguish between them. Some were more easily reached by the river, and some could accommodate a larger number than others, requiring fewer trips to get them there; and 1 did not care to take these smaller hospitals when I had larger ones, as there were three or four hundred men daily to be distributed. We were paying for the Shiimecock $1,000 a day. Q. It was easier for you to send them to a few hospitals rather than scatter them through many? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you at any time send them to the overcrowded hospitals when others had vacant beds? A. I telephoned in each case, asking how many each hospital could receive, and I never exceeded the number they sent word they could accommodate. Q. In sending patients to the hospitals in the city of Brooklyn what hospitals were .selected? A. The principal ones most conveniently located were the Long Island Hospital and St. Peter's. I could land them under cover at Pier No. 22, which is a Gov- ernment pier, and that was five blocks from the hospital. They could be landed there in fair or rainy weather, because it was covered and always available. Q. What other hospitals did you send them to in Brooklyn? A. Brooklyn City Hospital, St. Mary's, St. Catherines, and St. John's; all in Brooklyn. Q. Were there any hospitals in the city of Brooklyn to which you did not send patients? A. There are quite a number. Q. Do you remember the names of any of the hospitals to which you did not send patients? MAJ. DANIEL M. APPEL. 2887 A. Another one was the Senior Hospital. There was one— the Homeopathic Hospital — to which I did not send patients. Q. Wh}' did you not send patients there? A. I did not care to send anyone there. Personally I would not care to send anyone I was interested in. Q. Did the authority to select hospitals rest with you? A. Yes, sir; I had no instructions. Q. And acting on them, by what you deemed your good judgment, you sent them to the various ones? A. Yes, sir. When iiersonally requested by the parents of a man I would send some home, or to some special hospital. The superintendent who wrote to me about this Brooklyn Homeopathic Hospital was an illiterate person, as can be seen from his letter. Q. Do you remember his name? A. I do not recall it now. He signed himself " Dr.," but I do not remember his name. I think he was chief of the staff. I should like to add: When T was asked by certain parties why I did not send cases to a certain hospital, I answered I did not care to discuss my reasons: that they knew as well as I did. Q. Was that man's name Simmons? A. Yes, sir; that is his name. Q. Did you refuse to send men to any homeopathic hospitals when requested by the patient? A. Never. I ^vl•ote to Dr. Simmons that I would use his hospital when I was in need of beds. Q. So far as you know you never sent a man on to an overcrowded hospital? A. No. sir; not that I know of. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What was the price the Government paid per day for these men at the hospitals? A. Usually $1. At the Long Island Hospital they received seamen at 90 cents, and they gave us that price. Another charged 60 cents per day, including every- thing. By Colonel Denby: Q. Do you know anything of the case of a man named Dobson? A. Yes, sir. Q. You were in New York at the time? A. Yes, sir. Q. The mother went to you and asked to have him removed from St. Peter's Hospital to the Long Island College Hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you order him to be removed? A. I immediately telephoned to the Sister Superior asking the man's condition, and she said the man was very low, practically in a moribund condition: and I told them it would be inadvisable to change him; but she insisted on the removal, as she could not be v^ith her boy at all hours. And he was changed. Q. Who made the report to you that the man was in a moribund condition? A. The Sister Superior. Q. It is managed by a Catholic order? A. Yes, sir. Q. And she was of that order? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have the opinion of any physician? A. She said the house physician of that hospital said so. 2888 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Do you know what was the matter with him? A. It was diagnosed as typhoid fevei*. Q. Did yoii allow him to be removed, knowing he would die? A. He was so low, and his mother so insisted on it, that I telephoned to the Long Island Hospital, which was only about a block away— 400 yards away— that if they could remove him by simply having two men to carry him, without putting him in a wagon, I would allow it. It was warm weather. Q. Was he carried? A. Yes, sir; carried on a stiff litter. Q. He was removed from this St. Peter's Hospital the day after he got there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And they would not allow the mother to stay with him the night he came or the next day at that hospital? A. No, sir; they had some stringent rule. Q. But is the Government bound by those rules? A. The patients are, if admitted. Q^ You had no authority to admit the mother during the last hours of the child's life? A. I had no authority. They offered their services to care for these men. They said the rules of their order would not permit it. Q. Did you see Dobson before he died? A. When he came down on the boat. Q. Did you make any observation of him? A. There were 300; I had no time. Q. He was removed from the general hospital at Montauk? A. At his mother's urgent request. Q. Was it correct to remove him? A. I should net have done so. Q. Do you regard it as the duty of a physician to obey the request of anybody, contrary to his own judgment? A. Not in all cases. Not when I thought it was a positive injury to the patient. Q. From what you know of the Dobson case, ought he to have been sent from the general hospital at Montauk to New York? A. From what I know it made no difference. Q. Why? A. Because I think he was so seriously ill he wotild not have recovered anyhow. Q. He had stayed in his tent a considerable time after he was sick. He had in- sisted on staying there. Do you think it proper for a physician to listen to such requests from a patient or Ills mother? A. I think where they had so many sick— I think the physician must accept the patienfs statement. Q. Who is to blame in this Dobson case? A. Nobody. I think he was sick and dying. He had no immediate complica- tion. Heart failure and general collapse were the immediate causes of death. Q. Do you think if he had stayed at the general hospital at Montauk he would have died? A. 1 do; decidedly. Q. Then you think he was very sick before he left his own camp? A. Yes, sir; and I think he was one of those cases where the system was so pro- foundly overcome by the poison of the typhoid that there was no chance for suc- cess in treating him. Q. Why did not the doctors in camp find that out in time to do something? A. It was impossible to always differentiate malaria from typhoid. Even in the hospitals some of the most eminent men could not decide whether a case was a low type of typlioid or malaria. MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2889 Q. Dr. Cox, in this case, diagnosed it as typhoid, but the man had been sicli before that and no attention was paid to that, as he represented he wanted to go with the regiment. Dr. Cox was the regimental physician of that division. A. I think it was his dnty to send him to the hospital if he so diagnosed it. Q. Then, wasn't it his dnty to keej) him there? A. No, sir. Q. Whose duty was it? A. Surgeon at the general hospital. Q. Was not it his duty to keep him there and not send him to New York? A. Not necessarily. He might have thought that he would be better cared for in New York. (.}. Mrs. Dobson was acquainted with you.' A. Not before that. Q. And she insisted on his being moved? A. Yes, sir. Q. And did you tell her he would die? A. I told her that if anything was done to him she must hold herself responsi- ble; that the physician reported he was very ill and would not recover, and thought it inadvisable to move him. Q. You made xip your mind that the man was going to die anyway? A. From what I heard; not from a persor al examination. Washington. D. C. December 9, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. Maj. A. H. Apfel then appeared before the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the Presi- dent of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then aslced if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. lie was thereupon duly sworn by the recorder of the commission. By Dr. Conner: Q. State your name, rank, service, and the stations you occupied during the late war between the United States and Spain. A. A. H. Appel; major and surgeon, United States Army; in the service since 1878; and I went into the field with the Thirteenth Infantry from Fort Porter, from camp at Hampton Roads; was in charge of the division hospital at Tampa Heights, and when we left Tampa was placed in charge of the medical depart- ment on the Olkvttc; remained there until the close of the active operations in Cuba with the Fifth Corps at Cuba, and returned to New York with a lot of wounded on the Olivette; refitted there and went back again to Santiago and returned with a lot of sick from Santiago, and then was ordered to Fernandina, Fla. , to bring a lot of sick, but the ship went down, and I was then ordered to Lee s Corps at Jacksonville. (^. Where are you stationed now. Doctor? A. Fort Hamilton, N. Y. Q. And during the time you were in charge of the division hospital at Tampa Heights, be kind enoiTgh to tell us the condition it was in, as a hospital, as respects the personnel, the nurses, supplies on hand, and the general condition of the hos- pital. In a word, give us briefly and succinctly a history of that hospital. First, what time did you take charge of it? A. I was detailed on the 4th of May — I think it was the 4th of May: I give the dates as near as I can from memory — and I proceeded to organize the hosijital. 2890 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. And yon remained in charge of it nntil what time? A. As a hospital until, I think, it was the 8th of Jnne when we started and loaded the hospital on trains for embarkation to Tampa. Q. Tell lis about the hospital during this month? A. We left Tampa on the l.lth, I think. Well, I proceeded to get what I could to establish a hospital, drawing ni}- supplies, as far as x)ossible. from the Qnartei-- master's Department and the Medical Department, and from the supplies that I had brought in going into the field, and the separate supplies of the regimental hospitals. I had all the assistance I rer[uired in the way of surgeons, and we were gradually getting enough hospital corps men — hospital privates. Q. Please state how many medical officers there were connected with the hos- pital while you were in charge of it? A. Besides myself. I had three assistants. Q. What was the bed capacity of the hospital? A. V/e started in with two tents— two hospital tents— and by the time the lios- pital was broken up I think there was 100 patients — I think, about. Q. And in the beginning how many beds were in a tent? A. Six. We had plenty of tentage. Q. From the beginning? A. Yes. sir. Q. Were your hospital tents floored? A. Yes, sir; almost from the lieginning. I think from the very beginning. Q. Did you have a sufficient number of cots and bedsteads to answer the recjuire- ments? A. We did. Q. Were you provided with the proper bedding and bed clothing for your patients? A. Yes, sir; what I always considered proper bed clothing for the field — i)lenty of blankets and cots. There were some sheets and pillows. I had not been accus- tomed to taking that sort of stuff into the field when I went before. Q. Were your men properly cared for by your assistants? A. They were. Q. In every respect? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was your force made up of men entirely, or had you female nurses? A. No female nurses at that time. Q. Were the male nurses competent to take care of the sick? A. They were hospital corjis men who had been drilled, and new men. They were not trained men. Q. Were the new men. in any proportion, at all ac(iuainted with the duties of a nurse? A. Well, yes: I should .say so; they did what they were told to do, and that is the principal duty of the nurses. Q. Now, was the nursing properly done at night? A. It was. Q. How large a proportion of your patients were cases of typhoid fever? A. I had al)out a dozen cases, I think. Q. All told? A. All told. ■ Q. Were you provided with the necessary food supplies for such cases? A. I was. Q. Were you able to have it properly cooked? A. We had two Buzzacott ovens for field cooking, and an ice box and plenty of milk and everything. MA J. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2891 Q. How did yon get your milk and ice? A. I bought it. Q. Out of what fund? A. I bought it out of funds I took along when I went out. I took a hospital fund along with me. and whenever I was out of anything at any time I just bought it and gave a voucher for it. Q. Were all of your supplies of milk and ice obtained through the Medical Department, or were some of them obtained through tlie relief associations? A. At that time all was obtained through the Medical Department. Q. By " at that time " do you mean all the time you were there? A. At Tampa Harbor; yes, sir. Q. Were you supplied with medicines in sufficient (luautities? A. Yes, sir. Q. At all times? A. At all times. Q. Did you take them with you or get them after you got there? A. I took quite a supply with me and got what I needed when I was down there. Q. On requisition? A. Yes, sir. Q. From the medical supply depot there? A. Quite a number from that depot, but there were a number of drug stores in Tampa and I never hesitated to get what I needed. By General Beaver: Q. Was there any Red Cross at Tampa or other relief associations during the time of which you have spoken? A. I do not think there was any Red Cross establishment at that time. By Dr. Conner: Q. We are to understand that between what you got from the medical sup]ily depot and what you bought you had what you needed? A. Everything. Q. Were any (complaints made to you by the medical officers in charge of the wards that they had not what they wanted in the way of medicines? A. No complaints. Occasionally I would be told we were out of such and such a thing, and I invariably told the medical officers under my charge that anything that was necessary at any time I would get. and they were responsible for it them- selves if they were ever out of anything. Q. What time were you relieved from this hospital? A. I was relieved from the charge of the hospital about the 8th of June. 1 think. Q. And you were then ordered to take charge of the Olivette? A. Not directly in that way. We got an order in the middle of the night, about the 8th of June, to break camp and get on the trains. By daylight, or rather 2 o'clock, we got off from the hospital. We took along everything possi- ble, leaving the patients, and got away on the train before daylight. Q. How large a part of your equipment as a division hospital did you transfer to the Olivette.? A. I transferred everything I could take along personally. Q. Were any patients left behind in the hospital when you left? A. All the patients were left; I did not take any. Q. How many patients were there at that time? A. Speaking from memory. I should say about 100. Q. You had a sufficient amount of equipment for a hospital for 100 men that you left behind, and in addition to that you had sufficient stores to transfer a con- siderable quantity to the Olivette. Is that it? 28&2 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. That is it. Q. Was it intended that the Olivette shoukl be a hospital ship from the begin- ning? A. Oh, no; that was an afterthought. Q. Were any troops taken on the Olivette at this time? A. No, sir. Q. She was intended, then, at that time to serve as a hospital ship? A. No; she was designared as a hospital ship, I think, a day or two before she sailed. We went out to look over the ground to see whether any of the trans- ports were suitable for a hospital ship. There were no troops on her. There were a lot of newspaper correspondents, and so they decided to make her a hos- pital ship,' Q. That was before you were relieved from duty in charge of the hospital? A. No, sir; afterwards, Q, How long after? A. We went to Tampa Harbor, I think, on the 8th or 9th of June. I first went onto the ('omul with what supplies I could hastily gather together, and from the Comal— I think we were on there two or three days when it was decided to use the Olivette. Q. Did you transfer your supplies to the Olivette then? A. Yes, sir; I did. Q. Did you get additional supplies at Tampa? A, I think three or#four boxes of siirgical siapplies and outfit came down. Q. How much of a medical outfit had you on the Olivette before you sailed? A. Well, 1 think I was pretty well provided; I could not tell, or at least I could not tell from memory just exactly what I had. Q. No, Doctor, you misunderstand the question, I want to know how well i)ro- vided you were. If you were to be a hospital ship, you had to have preparations lor a number of patients. Speaking generally, how well were you supplied with medical stores and medical supplies of all kinds before \o\\ left Tampa? A, Well, I do not know that I qiiite— for how long a time do you mean? Q. No. no; speaking generally, what amount of medical supplies had you— and I tell you why I ask it now, it is because presently I shall ask you what you had at the end of your trip, and what you had to give away when you got back? A, I misunderstood the question. I had left enough tentage and field equipment behind to run a hospital of 100 beds, but took all the medical supplies there, except one medical and surgical chest— enough to last them at Tampa Heights for a day or two, Q. Now, be kind enough to tell us how much of an outfit you had on the Olivette? A, She was not a hospital ship, but simply taken for that purpose. I took all the medical supplies, blankets, bedding, and whatever I could get on my transporta- tion. I had my own transportation of G ambulances and escort wagons, 4 mules to each— that is, 48 mules— and I took all I could load on those 12 wagons and put tliem on the Comal, and they were afterwards transferred from the Com(d to the Olivette. Q. None of those stores were left on the Comal? A. No, sir, Q. On the Olivette, then, speaking generally, you had sufficient supplies to estab- lish a floating hospital for how many beds? A, About 200 patients, Q. For how long a time? A, I should say the stores would last two weeks, Q, Are we to understand that you had a floating hospital sufficient for 200 patients for two weeks' time? A, Yes, sir. MA J. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2893 By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did yoii take all the tents? A. I took all the tents not in use. Q. How many? A. I do not know; a dozen, i^erhaps. Q. And how many cots? A. Thirty or forty. This is from memory and not accurate. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was the vessel so furnished when you went on Ijoard of her that a consider- able amount of bunkage could be used on the ship? A. There were 80 cabins on the ship — I think that was the number — and that would give room for I.IO patients; and then I thought— this was afterwards; I had the ship fitted up afterwards, and at that time the staff horses were put in the hold, when we got to Cuba we could use that space for j)atients then. Q. Were these bunks furnished, or simply the bare boards? A. All furnished. Q. So that you had beds on that vessel for 160 men in the cabins and 'SO or more cots? A. Yes, sir. Q. So you practically had a 300- bed hospital? \. Yes, sir. Q. How were you supplied with hospital stores and such articles as are to be gotten from the Commissary Department, such as are needed in the care of tlie sick? A. Whatever was necessary we got. Q. To what extent? A. The Comal was loaded down with stores. From the commissary we had the regular ration, and besides that we had aerated waters and lime juice, and from the Medical Department I got condensed milk and biscuits and that sort of thing for a light diet, besides the regular rations. Q. Was the ship so fitted with cooking arrangements that cooking could be properly done for the sick? A. It liad the regular galley, which I took possession of. Q. Was it or not intended to use the Olivette to take the sick or such as might be met with on the various vessels of the fleet? A. On the way out? Q. Did you have occasion to take any from the other vessels on tlie way out? A. I had twelve or fifteen cases on board when the fleet started, but the Olivette came back at night and did not start until the next day, but in the night I had a special train take off these cases, and so we went out empty of patients, and we. had about 100 patients taken off the fleet by the time we got to Cuba. Q. What was the character of the diseases that prevailed? A. Measles, principally, and a few typhoid cases, and some venereal cases. Q. How large a percentage of the latter? A. A small percentage. Q. When you reached Dai(iuiri you had about 100 patients in the hospital? A. About. Q. Were they treated on the Olivette until they recovered or were they put on shore? A. They were not put on shore and they were not treated on the Olivette until they recovered; but I was put in charge of the trans])ortation of the wounded on ships going back, and every time I had a chance to ship them back I transferred them. Q. Did the Olivette go directly from Daiquiri to Siboney? 2894 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir: and took the wounded from Siboney after the battle. Q. When you went to Siboney, were you informed of the needs of those on shore, respecting their needs as to medicine and medical supplies? A. I did not get any official information. Q. Were any re(iiiests made of you for medicines and medical supplies at Siboney? A. Practically none. Q. How long did you remain off Siboney? A. Until the 24th, I think it was. Q. You arrived there, what date i^lease? A. About the 22d. Q. You were only two daj'S off Siboney? A. About that time? Q. Before you started north again? A. Oh, yes — oh, Siboney? — I am getting mixed up. We got to Siboney on the 21th of June. Word came down that there were a lot of wounded, and we went right up there and took them on the Olivette. Q. From what hospital did you receive these wounded that you put on the Olivette? A. We received thena from the shore. There was no hospital on shore. Q. Were all the wounded after that fight put at once upon the Olivette? A. We took all the wounded from that fight. Q. How many were there? A. I do not know. I should say between forty and fifty. Q. What medical aid liad you to take care of that number of wounded? A. I had on my own staff three assistants, and then other surgeons came aboard, and they helped. I think there were altogether 12 surgeons on board the ship that night — about twelve. Q. How close in shore were you? A. As near as the vessel could get without running aground. Q. And that was about what distance — was it a tjuarter of a mile? A. I should say 200 or ;300 yards. Q. Did these medical officers that came to assist you go ashore the next day? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you remain in close proximity to the shore or go out to sea? A. We were always in the neighborhood. 1 would occasionally go down the shore a little way, when it was a little hot, to give the patients some air. Q. Did you at any time lay off' Morro, 5 or (» miles from Siboney? A. No, sir; we were only there at night. Q. Were you in close proximity to the shore? A. All the time. Q. During this time were any applications made to you for medicines and med- ical supplies from the shore? A. Not at this time, if I remember correctly. Q. You went ashore, did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And do you know whether there was any scarcity of medicines at that time and i)lace on shore? A. On shore? Q. Yes. A. About that time they were making efforts — our department was making efforts — to get medical su[)plies from the transports. One officer was specially detailed for that purpose. Q. Who was that, please? A. That was Captain Munson. He was detailed to get the supplies oft' the transports and get them to the troops. MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2895 Q. Were any sick on the shore at this time? A. I think not; I think we had them all on the Olivette. Q. Were any reciuests sent to you or verbally made to you by officers on the shore for medical supplies to carry to the front? A. Not to me. They were all on the other transport. Q. But if they could not be gotten out and you had some on your ship, would it not naturally occur to some one to ask you for them? A. If they could get at me. Q. Were you near enough to the shore so that they could readily get at you by taking a boat and coming out? A, Yes, sir; if they could get a boat. Q. Did anybody get a boat and get out to you? • A. I think there were one or two medical officers who did. Q. Did they get what they were after? A. They got what I had that they wanted. Q. Did you have a considerable amount to spare? A. No, sir; 1 had 200 patients or thereabouts, and my supplies were for a limited period, and I did not want to run out until my other supplies came down. Q. There has been testimony given to us that they looked to you for supplies and they could not get to you, as you were off somewhere in the neighborhood of Morro; that they had nothing and you had something. Now. I ask you if you considered it your duty to the men you had to keep what supplies you had rather than be giving them to the men on shore? A. I was always in sight. Q. When did you leave Siboney? A. On the 7th of July, I think. Q. Arriving there on the 24th of June, I think you said? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you take north with you any sick or wounded other than those you have spoken of? A. Yes, sir; from the battle of Las Guasimas. By General Dodge: Q. How many boats were there attached to the Olivette? A. Six, I think. Q. Were they suitable boats for landing? A. Lifeboats. Q. Was there any trouble in landing supplies in them? A. Small packages could have been lauded from the lifeboats. Q. Did the Medical Department apply for the use of your boats there for the purpose of landing supplies from the other transports? A. The Medical Department? No; I do jiot think they would have got them had they applied; but there was no application. Q. Could not they have used your boats? The testimony is by some of the doc- tors that they could not get boats. Now. you belonged to the Medical Department there, and if the chief surgeon or doctor had asked you for boats to bring supplies from the other transports to the shore, would you have let them use yours? A. Certainly. Q. They didn't ask you for boats? A. No, sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. How large a crew did you have on board? A. One boat's crew; I think six or seven sailors to work the ship. 2896 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By Di-. Conner: Q. How many days were you occupied in transporting the wounded from the shore to your ship? A. Every day and all day. Q. And, although you had six boats as you say, you only had one boat's crew, and so you had practically only one boat? A. Yes, sir. Q. Could the Medical Department if it had applied to you for other boats — would you have let them have them? A. It would depend on the time. The Olivette and her boats were under the orders of the quartermaster. The ship was not under my control. Q. Not under your commartd':' A. Only the Medical Depiartment. The ship was under the orders of the quar- termaster. Q. Wha'i. (luartermastor? A. General Humphrey. By the way, the ship had to go 30 miles for coal, and she might have been down there when these gentlemen were looking for her. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What did you do with your tents? A. Put them on shore at Siboney. By Dr. Conner: Q. Please state first, as clearly as you can, the articles you i)ut on shore at Siboney— articles of use in a hospital. A. Well, the tents Q. How many tents? A. I don't remember. I do not know how many there were. As I said before, we packed up in the middle of the night and I threw what I could on the wagons, and then I had the hospital corps take down the tents at night, and they threw what was possible on the wagons. Q. You landed all your tents? A. Yes, sir. Q. What else did you land? A. There were cots. Q. How many, please? A. All 1 had. Q. And that was about how many? A. Thirty or forty, I imagine. Q, Were they not required on board the boat? A. No, sir. Q. And what else, please? A. I believe there were some medicines, but I do not remember. I have the invoices for what I turned over. The receipts were never signed for them. Q. To whom were these stores delivered on shore? A. Tbey were taken to the reserve hospital there at Siboney. Q. Under whose charge was that? A. Dr. La Garde. Q. And all these things, as I understand you, were then turned over to him? A. Yes. sir; they were all turned over to him. Q. Now, having loaded up your vessel, you started north on the 7th, did you? A. Yes, sir; about the 7th. Q. Where did you go to, what port? A. I stopped first at Guantanamo on the 8th. Q. Did you take any wounded or sick there? MA J. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2897 A. Land them, do you ineau? Q. No. Did you take theui on? A. No, sir; 1 got some ice there. Q. And right there, please state in general what amount of ice and milk and l)roi)er hospital food for sick and wounded men you were able to secure at Sibony in addition to your own stores. A. Nothing to be had at Siboney. Q. Well, anywhere on the coast? A. At Guantanamo I bought some ice and fresh meat. Q. How much? A. My bill was §187; I do not know how much it was. Q. Did you get them from the Navy or Army? A. The Army. Q. Did you have sufficient condensed milk to answer your purposes? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then, leaving Guantanamo, what was your next port? A. We put in at Fortress Monroe. Q. How long were you in the Roads at Fortress Monroe? A. I think until the next day. Q. Did you land yoxir sick and wounded at Fortress Monroe? A. Excuse nie a minute; I think I have got a memorandum about that. [Pro- duces and examines paper.] We leit Siboney on the 9th of July and got to Gnan tanaino the same day; left the same day again and arrived at Fortress Monroe on the loth, and left same day and arrived at New York on the 16th. Q. Did you land any of the sick and wounded at Fortress Monroe? A. One case. q. That was all? A. One case. Q. How many in all had you on board of sick and wounded? A. Two hundred and seventy- odd— 275, I think. Q. And how many of these were sick? A. Oh, I should say about 50. Q. Did you have a sufficient number of medical officers and hospital corps men to take proper care of these sick and wounded men coming north? A. We took proper care of them, but I would like to have had more men. Q. Did you apply for more before you left Siboney? A. No, sir. Q. Why? A. There were none there to be given. Q. Were there any others on board besides sick and woimded? A. No, sir. Q. Any civilians of any kind? A. You said except sick and wounded. Q. Leaving Fortress Monroe, you landed in New York the next day and landed your wounded? A. Yes, sir; at New York. Q. To what hospitals did you send them? A. The officers were landed at Fort Wads worth; the men— the balance— went to the City Hospital, Long Island Hospital, I think, and to St. Peter's. The Sur- geon-General came aboard. They took 80 cases at Governors Island. Q. Your sick were properly and promptly disposed of on arrival in New York? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you lose any men coming north? A. I do not think we had a death on board that trip. A Cuban or a Spaniard died before we left. 783;:{— VOL. (I 32 2898 INVESTIGATION OF C()NJ)UCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. After getting rid of your sick and WDiinded did you refit at New York? A. Yes, sir. Q. What amount of medical supplies did you lay in there? A. Quite a largo amount. Q. Estimating upon the capacity of 300 beds, which I understand was the capacity of your ship A. Yes, sir. Q. Estimating upon that capacity for the ship, did you or did you not refit for a considerable time? A. Not for the Olivette. Q. For what time did you lay in supplies for the Olivette herself? A. Roughly calculated for a round trip. Q. Estimating that you would have the same number and character of patients coming back? A. Based on that: yes, sir. Q. You took also medical stores for distribution for the troops at Santiago? A. Yes, sir; to turn over to the medical officers. Q. How large a supply of medicines and stores did you take for that purpose? A. About 300 or 400 packages. Q. Did you understand you were to be a purveying depot upon arriving at San- tiago? A. No, sir. Q. You were simply transporting them for somebody else at Siboney; is that it? A. Yes, sir; that is all. Q. Could you tell for what time you had supplies, based on an estimate of 17,000 men at the other end? A. I do not know. Q. Do you think you had sufficient for a hospital with a capacity for 400 men lor two weeks' time? A. That I do not know. I had but to transport thian. Colonel Brown put them on the ship. A lot of the stores were quartermaster's supplies. Q. What were these qiiar term aster's supplies that were piit on? A. Tents, and there was a lot of company property brought up from Cuba and taken back on the Olivette. It had not been unloaded, I believe. Q. Did you have as much space for medical supplies as you would have liked to have had? A. No. Understand, I should like to have had the whole ship for medical sup- plies. Q. Was any api)lication made by anybody for the use of that ship as a hosi)ital transport? A. When I got to New York I asked the Surgeon-General whether the ship was to be continued in use for a hospital ship, and he replied that the Secretary of War stated that it was to be continiied in the use of the Medical Department for that purpose. Q. Did you or anyone make protest against the loading up of the vessel with quartermaster's stores to the exclusion of medical supplies known to be needed? A. I made none. Q. Did anyone you know of? A. No. sir. By Governor Woodbury : Q. Did you learn. Doctor, that any ship had preceded you, or was immediately to succeed you, with medical supplies? A. Before I left there the Relief came down there loaded with medical supplies. MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2899 By Dr. Conner: Q. On your return to Siboney to whom did you deliver these medical stores and quartermaster's supplies? A. I went to Santiago. The medical sui^plies were unloaded by order of the chief surgeon, Colonel La Garde, and delivered to the officer designated for that purpose, and the quartermaster's supplies were delivered to Colonel Humphrey. Q. Who was the medical officer designated':' A. Major Sommcrs. Q. A regular or a volunteer officer'? A. Volunteer. Q. Was it a brigade appointment or was he connected with one of the regiments there? A. I do not know. Q. How soon and with what character of passengers did you load the vessel to go north again? General Dodge, Before he answers that I w(juld like to have you ask about the arrival of the Relief. Q. Were you present when the Relief arrived? A. I was there. It was about the (ith or 7th of July. Q. Was she supjjlied with medica.1 stores? A. She had a vast quantity. Q. Do you know what was done with those stores? A. I got some. 1 saw a lot put on shore and a lot transferred to the other trans- ports. Q. What other transports? A. I loaded the City of \V(i.shhi>jtoii, the Breplying them? A. I was responsible that they were properly supplied with what could be had. Q. What provision was made for the diet of the seriously ill and wounded, if there were such? A. There were medical supplies which the Olivette divided up with them; all the ships had medical supplies in sufficient quantity; 1 would not let them go until they had. The}* got them from the stores; we could not get ashore. I divided all I had with them, and they got some from the Relief. Q. Were they all supplied for a ti'ip of that length, passengers being sick and wounded? A. I think fairly so. We had condensed milk, special food, and soft drinks, ginger ale, lime juice, and some farinaceous foods. They wei"e nearly all wounded men. Q. Were they supplied with ice — these transports? A. I think they had some ice. The Relief had some ice, and I know she gave ice to the Breakivciter and the City of Wa.sJiiiigton. The Olivette had ice. As to the Iroquois and the Cherokee, they were only to make a short trip to Key West, and I do not know that they had any. Q. Did they make a trip or go north? A. I sent them, I think, to Key West. Q. Were these vessels properly provided with bedding for the sick and wounded? A. Yes. sir. Q. Were they i)roper vessels with respect to their ventilation and water-closet arrangements, and the jiossibility of cooking at the galley, and space for trans- porting wounded men? 2900 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I would have accepted tlieiu on the whole. Q. What time did you load up and start north again? A. Yes, sir — I was going to look up my memorandum— it you will allow me, it will take but a moment. Creneral Dodge. Ask him, Doctor, if he knows anything about the facts of the trouble of getting stores ashore from the Covial this first time. He was under Humphrey. The Witness. I was at Santiago the 1st of August, and we left on the I5th. Q. General Dodge asks the question about what you knew in regard to the dif- ficulty of landing the supplies at Siboney from the various transports as you yourself observed them. A. I was not in a jjosition to personally observe much of that, oxci-ptiug that I knew there was no way — we could not get the sui)plies landed. Captain Munson was my assistant afterwards, and he was detailed on the 2;M,the day l)efore the battle, and an order was issued for him to gather the medical supplies and accom- pany them to the front. He got what he could; as the transports were out at sea and there was no way to get at them. On one occasion he had some medical supplies from one of the ships, and he told me that an employee there in charge. Captain McKay, refused to take the supplies. That was the only case I ki;ow of. This I know through Captain Munson. By General Dodge: Q. Captain McKay says he went out in the middle of the night for them. A. I do not see how he got out to the ships in the middle of the night. Colonel Humphrey could not get out in the middle of the night. Q. Captain McKay had a quartermaster's steam launch of his own, the Laura. A. That was asort of atug or barge, audit was in constant use by Colonel Weston to get commissary stores ashore. By Governor Woodbury: Q. I think Captain McKay said in his testimony he went out one night and brought some in at midnight. A. That I had nothing to do with. By Dr. Conxek: Q. Doctor, as I understand you, you were loaded up on the 12th of August? A. We stayed there until the 15th. Q. You left Santiago on the 13th of August? A. We arrived at Santiago on the 1st of August and left on the 15th. (^. What number of sick and wounded had you on board? A. Two hundred. Q. All sick? A. All sick. Q. How many medical officers had you at this time? A. Three assi.stants, I think. C^. Were these men seriously ill, most of them? A. Quite a percentage of them were very ill. Q. Were you supplied fully with the necessary hospital stores to take care of 200 sick, many of them seriously ill? A. We were. Q. In every respect? A. In every respect. Q. Were they thoroughly well cared for on the way north? A. They were. Q. Did you observe, yourself, what care was taken of them? A. I saw every patient every day. MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2901 Q. How were you supplied with ice? A. Every day; never without it. Q, Did you have any on the Olivette when you reached Hampton Roads? A. Second trip; yes, sir. Q. That is, this trip you are talking about? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have enough to last you until you arrived at New York or Boston? A. Yes, sir. C^. Was there any occasion for you to get additional amounts of ice there? A. No, sir; not ice. Q. Did you get anj' there? A. I think not. Q. Did you make any requisitions at Hampton Roads for anything? A. We wanted fresh eggs and fresh milk and little items of medicines? Q. Were your requisitions honored? A. Yes, sir; I think we got nearly everything we asked for. Q. Did you get what milk you wanted and needed? A. Yes, sir; I think so. Q. In full? A. I think so. Q. Did yoiT make requisitions for liquors — whiskies and brandies, etc.? A. I do not think we did. Q. Did you have enough on board to last your probable retjuirements for the rest of the trip? A. Yes, sir; I think we did get a bottle or two of whisky at Hampton Roads. Q. Isn't it a fact that upon yo,ur arrival at Hampton Roads milk and brand}' were requisitioned for, neither of which were supplied? A. According to my recollection we got milk at Hampton Roads — a boat came off. We got it either at Hampton Roads or Montauk, I have forgotten which. Q. If you did not get it at Hampton Roads, did you need it at Hampton Roads? A. Not exactly. It is better to have fresh than condensed milk. Q. Did you endeavor to get it there at Hampton Roads? A. I think so. Q. But you do not remember whether you got it or not? A. I think we did. Q. About what date did yon arrive at Hampton Roads? A. We arrived the 19th of August at Fortress Monroe. Q. And what time in the day did you reach there? A. 1.48 p. m. <<^. What time did you leave? A. Same day. Q. Same evening? A. Yes, sir. Q. Yon were ordered to go where from Hampton Roads? A. To Fort Pond Bay— that is, at Montauk. Q. By whom was that order issued? A. The Surgeon-General, I believe. Q. You arrived there when? A. Twenty- first; at 6.30 the next morning. Q. Did you land all your sick at Montauk? A. No, sir. (^. Did you make any effort to land them there at INIontank? A. I asked for instructions. We had been ordered to Montauk, and we received orders about the hosi^itals. 2902 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF VaR WITH SPAIN. Q. Do you remember whether you laid in additional supplies at Montauk? A. We got a few additional supplies at Montauk. Q. Of what character? A. Fresh goods, milk and bread, and a few bottles of good whisky. Q. How much milk did you get there, do you remember? A. No, sir. Q. Was it enough to last for the rest of your trip? A. There was plenty of milk, I think. Q. Would there have been any difficulty in getting all the milk you wanted at Montauk? A. Not if we stayed long enough. Q. How long did you stop there? A. Twenty-three hovii's. Q. And what was the reason that you remained at Montauk twenty-four hours without going on or without landing your sick? A. I do not know, sir. Q. Was no information given you as to what was to be done? A. Not iintil we got the order to go to Boston. Q. Did Dr. Forwood tell you he would receive certain of your patients — that he would take certain of your cases? A. I got a note from him that he would take 30 or 40 of my worst cases. I sent a note to him and got an answer from him in reply next day. stating he would take oO or 40. We only landed one case at Montauk. Q, Why did you land only one? A. It was a special dispensation, a sergeant of the First Volunteer Cavalry. His friends came for him, and we expected him to die. His diagnosis was very doubtful. We did not get the order to go to Boston until the next aftei-noon. Q. Was the ship prepared for the trip to Boston? A. Yes, sir. Q. In all respects? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it a fact that at 10 a. m. you were megaphoned to have provisions and coal sufficient to go to Boston, and that you replied you had sufficient coal, but wanted some provisions, and you were told that in an hour they would be sent to you? A. We had sufficient provisions; but some luxuries we could have had. Q. Were the provisions sent to you in an hour? A. We got some potatoes and milk, I think, and some fresh bread. Q. Is it not a fact that at five minutes to 10, when you were ordered to Boston, no milk or provisions had been sent from shore and you had no onions on board? A. Some things were sent out. Q. Is it a fact that milk and brandy, which were absolutely needed, were want- ing, and were not secured from shore? A. 1 do not think they did send any brandy, but at the same time we had other stimulants to take the place of brandy. Q, Did you or did you not, both on Sunday and Monday, ask for milk and stimulants that were not sent to you? A. I do not think I recollect the circumstances perfectly, whether they wei*e sent or not. Q. Did you make the requisitions or roi^uests that you should be furnished with them? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you do not remember whether those requests were complied with or not? A. I know there were some things sent out. MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2903 Q. Is it or not a fact that your seriously ill were in need of things which you did not get and did not have for the remainder of the trip from Montauk to Boston? A. I think not. I do not think there was a case there on the ship that needed anything— seriously needed anything that they did not get. Q. What were the difficulties in the way of getting at Montauk, during these thirty-six hours you were there, all you asked for? Were there not milk and ice and medical stores and stimulants of all kinds on shore? A. There must have been. Q. Why could you not get them, then? A. We had no means of communicating with the shore. Q. You had six boats? A. Yes, sir. Q. And one boat's crew? A. Yes. sir; but we were quarantined. Q. And you could not communicate with the shore? A. The quarantine officer took our message ashore. Q. Was not sufficient communication established with the shore for you to get these things? A. Yes, sir; we got a few things there. Q. What were the conditions at Montauk which jirevented you sending a boat to the shore, when twenty-four hours later you discharged all your patients at the dock in Boston? A. There was no reason why we should go on shore at Montauk. We were not badly off for supplies. We had plenty of condensed milk and all the necessary food. Q. There was a large number of sick and seriously ill on your boat? A. Yes, sir. Q. Would it or not have been well for these men to have the things not on board your ship which you coiild have readily secured by going on shore? A. I do not think it would have made any difference to them. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What kind of stimitlants did you have on board your ship? A. Wine, champagne, and cordial. Q. Any whisky? A. Yes, sir; whisky and brandy. By Dr. Conner: Q. Now, when you reached Boston you discharged your patients at once, did yoii not? A. Yes, sir. Q. By whom were they received, do you remember? A. Tliey were received by Dr. Bradford. Q. Dr. Bradford had entire charge of that matter of receiving and sending away the patients that came off your boat? A. Yes, sir. I had a telegram from the Surgeon- General that he would meet a ship and take charge of the transportations. Q. Did you meet Dr. Bradford? A. Yes, sir; I did. Q. Did you have any conversation with him about any particular case on board your boat? A. We talked over most all the cases on the boat. Q. Was there any special case to which your attention was directed, or by you to which his attention was directed? 2904 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. No, sir: I do not think there was any particular case All the cases were more or less talked of. Q. Was there any special case that afterwards attracted your attention? A. If you have in mind the case of Tiffany, it necessarily attracted my attention. Q. Now, Doctor, in your own way, tell us what you know about the Tiffany case from beginning to end. A. I will. We took the Lieutenant aboard at Santiago. I got a personal note from General Wood asking me to take Lieutenant Tiffany, who was a conva- lescent — not in a hospital, but out of the hospital ten days — convalescent from malaria— to talce him on board the Olivette and look after him on the way home, which I did. He was in pretty good shape; a little fever— 100' or 101 his tempera- ture the day he came aboard the ship, caused probably from walking down. That soon disappeared and his fever left him, and he was recovering and got better every day he was on the ship. No time confined to his bed all day, as I remem- ber; and when he got off the ship— oh, to si)eak of what he got on the ship. We had all a man wanted or needed, sick or well, on board the Olivette on that trip, and he was looked after; and when we arrived at our destination he was appar- ently in very good condition. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did he come on deck during the passage? A. Yes, sir; every day. Q. Alone? A. Yes, sir. Q. What medicines did he require or use on his way home? A. Oh, nothing. He got a dose of quinine morning and evening for the malaria. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was he eating? A. Yes, sir; he came for his meals right along. Q. Did he eat his meals regularly? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he eat what would ordinarily be taken by a convalescent? A. I think so. I never noticed particularly. I advised him to be careful of his diet. We gave him an example of what he ought to eat, and stated he should not eat too much. By General Dodge: Q. Can you tell exactly what you gave him to eat? A. No; not exactly. We had special diets on the Olivette, and the patients could get there about what was necessary for them. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did he prescribe his diet, or did you? And was it liquid or solid? A. The officers in charge of the wards of tlie Olivette— the regular officer— would send in what was necessary for each particular case, each patient; convalescent diets and the various diets necessary. He did not come aboard as a patient, but as passenger. By Dr. Conner: Q. Did you or not observe sufficiently close to state whether his stomach was in an ordinary condition or in a c;ondition of extreme irritation, an extremely irri- table condition? A. The same as an ordinary malarial case. Q. Is it a fact that his stomach could not ret.ain the food he took? A. It is not a fact. Q. Was it ever reported to yon that he was vomitint;- up what food he ate? MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. 2905 A. No. sir. Q. Is it your opinion that he did or did not have irritability of the stomach so that he could not keep his food down? A. He did not have it. Q. He had the food ordinarily given to convalescent officers? A. Yes, sir. On August 11 he came into the hospital, and on August 19 the report says, " Doing well. Going regularly to meals. Not yet strong." On Au- gust 22, "Doing well; general condition improved. Slight improvement.' There is nothing to show that he had any inability to retain food. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did lie gain or lose strength from the time he embarked until he disem- barked? A. Gained. By Dr. Conner: Q, He came on board the boat on the 11th, and his temperature was not kept after the 14th? A. No, sir; it was normal. Q. His highest temperature was 101? A. Yes, sir, Q. Did he leave on his own account, or how was that? A. When we got to Boston, I telegraphed to the Adjutant-General that there were a number of officers on board, fifteen or twenty, I think, tiiat had been brought over on the Olivette, and recommended that thirty days' sick leave be granted each one of them, as they were still convalescent and not able to return to duty with their regiments. Among these was Tiffany. The answer came back approving the recommendation. I made arrangements, giving each one of them a leave of absence for thirty days, with permission to go to their homes. I told them all 1 had made this application and the reply I had received. Tiffany was among those who wanted to leave, and I told Mr. Tiffany, as I did nearly all of them, that they were to be very careful in reference to their diet, as iiatients freqitently col- lapsed or had a condition of relapse, and that he should place himself under the care of a good physician immediately upon getting home. I was busy the rest of the day until 2 or 3 o'clock giving the patients out with their records and turning them over to the hospital people at Boston. Dr. Bradford was taking charge of the cases, and I had them brought out and turned over. The ambulances were there waiting. I do not know exactly when Tiffany left the boat. It was some time in the afternoon. I had told him he had better wait until I got through with the men, but when we came — some one called on board for him, and I sent for him, I think I sent an orderly to find where he was, and it was reported that he had left the ship. Q. Did you see him afterwards? A. No, sir. Q. If he died within forty-eight, or, say, seventy-two, hours, is it or not a fact that his death could fairly be attributed to starvation, as popularly termed? A. I think not. Doctor. I do not see how it could possibly be from starvation in any sense. Q. Using language in its ordinary way. could it be said that a man in the condi- tion you saw Mr. Tiffany in when you last saw him could possibly be starved to death in forty-eight or seventy-two hours? A. I think not, sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What conversation did you have with Dr. Bradford, or Dr. Bradford have with Tiffany in your ]>resence? 290G INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I do not kuow, Governor. I remember speaking of Tiffany to Dr. Bradford and his looking at him, but I do not remember what was said. We v/ere both very busy, and I had ah-eady asked Tiffany to wait until I had disposed of the enlisted men, and we would then look after him, and I think I sent for him later Q. Did Mr, Tiffany at any time on the voyage ex])ress hhnself in regard to his treatment on the Olivette? A. Yes, sir; he did. He expressed himself as much gratified at the treatment he received and the attention he received. By Dr. Conner: Q. Did you regard him as dangerously ill among the patients on the Olivette? A. I did not. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Could he be fairly called a convalescent when he landed? A. Most undoubtedly. By General McCook: Q. Did anybody come aboard the ship to hunt for Mr. Tiffany? A. No, sir; I think not. His brother came and inquired for him; I do not think he hunted for him; but if Mr. Tiffany was on the ship we knew where he was. He had a stateroom on the upper deck, and he was there or out on the tapper deck; and if anybody wanted to see him Mr. Tiffany could come down and see him. Q. Did his brother meet him there? A. I think so. They may or may not have gone.off together; but his brother saw him on the ship. By Dr. Conner: Q. After landing your passengers at Boston, where did you go next? A. I was ordered to Fernandina. Q. How long after you reached Fernandina before the vessel was sunk? A. The next day, I think. Q. During the time she was at Fernandina and at the time she was sunk was she under the charge of the Quartermaster's Department or under your command? A. I should say there that she was under my command, for I was the only com- missioned officer on the ship, and there were no quartermasters about, but when- ever the quartermaster could get charge of her he would do so. Q. Under whose orders was the coaling going on? A. The quartermaster had telegraphed ahead to have the ship coaled at Fer- nandina. Q. Were you on board wlien she sunk? A. I was, sir. Q. Was tlie occasion of her sinking known? A. We could only guess, of course, as to the ship's siiiking. I was never told why she sank; but she was coaling, and I understood a porthole had not been closed, and as she listed — there were two ships together — the water ran in and filled her up. Q. Would it be necessary to lose a vessel because a single porthole was open? A. I should not think so; there should have been a watchman. Q. Was it night or morning? A. It was 3 o'clock in the morning. Q. Were you able to get your things off? A. No. sir. We lost everything except a few personal things which could be hastily snatched. It could not have been over five minutes from the time w(> got the alarm before she sank, and as she sank in :'M feet of water her hurricane deck was just out of the water. MAJ. A. H. APPEL, SURGEON. '2907 Q. From Fernandina where did you proceed? A. To Jacksonville. 1 was ordered to the Seventh Corps. Q. Were yon on duty with the Seventh Corps for an}^ time? A. I think for aViont a month. We arrived at Fernandina on the 39th of August. (q). What position did yoii occupy at Fernandina? A. I was in charge of the ship — the medical department. Q. But after the Olivette sunk, I mean? A. I was then ordered to Jacksonville. Q. What date did you report there? - A. Three or four days after. Q. What duty were you assigned to there? A. Command of the hospital at Pablo Beach. Q. What condition did you find that hospital in? A. I found it in charge of a volunteer surgeon. Q. What was his name? A. Major Arto. Q. Of Louisiana? A. I think he was. Q. When you took charge, what condition did you find it in? A. Well, he evidently had not much experience in running hospitals. There were no records and hardly a sufficient number of nurses or medical supplies. Q. Was the Pablo Beach a convalescent camp or was it a hospital proper. A. It was — there was a convalescent camp; there was a lot of patients out in tents. There were two buildings, one large one and a smaller one that we used. I think there were about oOO cases there. It was called a convalescent camp, but I should call it a hospital. Q. Were these men properly supplied with medicines and stores? A. After I got there they were. Q. Were they when you got there? A. There was some deficiency in supplies. Q. Of what character? A. We were short of thermometers and some medicines. I have forgotten now. Q. Had requisitions been made for these articles, do you know? A. I do not know. Q. Do the records show? A. There were no records. Q. Did you have any difficulty in getting what you needed promptly after you toolc charge? A. After I took charge I got everything that was necessary. Q. Promptly? A. With a fair degree of promptness. Q. What do you mean by that, sir? A. There was some slight delay in getting supplies. Q. Delays of hours, days, or weeks? A. Delays in getting nurses. Q. I mean delays in hospital supplies? A. No, sir; no delays that were material, because we would go out and buy them. Q. Was there a supply depot at Jacksonville? A. Yes. sir. Q. Did that depot have in it what was required by the troops in the vicinity? A. It was very well sup])lied. Q. It is not more than a dozen miles from Jacksonville to Pablo Beach.' A. Eighteen or 20. 2908 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Ought there to have been any delay, then, in getting supplies from Jackson- ville to Pablo Beach? A. There was no delay of any moment after I had an opportunity of placing the necessity before them. Q. How long was it after your taking charge before the hospital was thoroughly equipped and supplied with everything it could properly ask to be supplied with? A. I could not say the exact date. When I left there it was thoroughly equipped in every possible way. Q. That was a month after? A. Yes, sir; about. Q. Did it take a month to get everything? A. Not medicines. It took some time to get a sufficient supply of nurses. Q. No; I want to know how quicklj' you were able to put the supplies there in proper condition? A. I can not tell j'ou exactly, I went through the hospital to find out what was needed and made reciuisitions for them. Q. How long on an average did it take for the supplies to reach you after you had mailed the requisitions? A. I did not mail them. Q. Well, sent them? A. I once or twice sent a requisition at 2 o'clock and would get the supplies at 4. Q. Was that the usual custom? A. Usually about twenty-four hours. Q. Did it take you twenty-four hours usually to get supplies that oiight to be on hand in the supply depot? A, Yes, sir; there were one or two things that were not in the hospital that we needed that exceeded twenty-four hours. Q. What were they? A. Hypodermic syringes, stethoscopes, and thermometers would take more than twenty-four hours. Q. Were not those things on hand in the hospital? A. The hospital was not sufficiently supplied when I took charge. i^. Were they obtainable in Jacksonville, or had they to be ordered bj^ telegraph from the North? A. We could not get a stethoscope in Jacksonville. Q. Is the stethoscope a particular necessity? A. It is possible to get along without it. Q. Well, don't the majorit}- of men in practice get along without it? A. I think not; we always have them. (^. But don't always use them when they have their ears. That I do not look at as a matter of any particular importance. What other articles were there you could not get at .Jacksonville? A. Well, I do not think it was possible to get any rubber cloth in Jacksonville^ (^. Well, what else, please? A. I do not think there was anything else. (^. Were the patients at Pablo Beach, many of them, seriously ill?' A. A larger i^ercentage of them were convalescents. There was perhaps 10 jter cent of them that were serious cases. By (Tovernor Woodbury: Q. Where and when did you get the thermometers and hypodermic syringes? A, We got them from the supply depot. They telegraphed for them, and as soon as they came we got them. Q. When did they come? A. That I can not say. MAJ. VALERY HAVARD. 2909 Q. After you applied for them and found they were not over at the supply depot, how long was it Ijefore you got them? A. Oh, I don't know— two or three days, I think. I can not say, exactly: just as short a time as it took for them to come down. Q. From where? A. Where they were ordered. Q. Where were they ordered? A. That I can not say. All medical supplies necessary were sent by express. By General Dodge: (^. Some place here it was testified by Captain McKay that he went out to the ship at night when a medical officer came and asked him for some supphes, and he went out and got them for him. A. I do not see what he got out to her on. Q. Was not the Bessie and Mantco there? He testified to having the Bessie, Laura, Matitco, and one other boat tliere. A. The Laura was the only boat that could get in to the shore. By General Wilson: Q. Were there any wounded, sick and wounded civilians on the Olivet fe when she came back; and if so, how many? A. Well, I can not tell from memory the exact number. Q. Were there any? A. Yes, sir. C^. Wounded civilians? A. Yes, sir; there was Mr. Marshall, of the New York Journal— a very serious case. He was on board and we brought him up on the first trip with his attend- ant, and I think we brought a wounded Cuban civilian. Q. And the sick civilians, were they all in the employ of the United States? A. Mostly discharged employees and teamsters. Q. And such transportation was authorized by the general commanding? A. Yes, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Did you ever make any statement about the Tiffany case? A. No, sir. It is included in my official report, which has not yet gone in. Q. Then we have the substance of it in your testimony? A. Yes, sir. Washington, D. C, December 10, ISDS. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. VALERY HAVARD. Maj. Valery Havakd, upon request, appeared before the commission, and having no objection, was sworn by General Wilson, and testified as follows: By Dr. Conner: Q. Major, will you kindly give us your full name, your rank, and positions you have held in the war with Spain? A. My name is Valery Havard; major and surgeon, United States Army. I went to Cuba as chief surgeon of the cavalry division, and on July 'SA 1 was detailed as acting chief surgeon to perform the duties of that position until the return of the Fifth Corps to the United States, when, on September y. I was appointed chief surgeon of the department at Santiago, which position I still hold. Q. Were you at Tam; a for any length of time prior to going to Cuba? A. I was at Tampa for about two weeks. 2910 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. What were the preparations you made in a medical way for the expedition of which you were chief surgeon of a cavalry command? A. I went to each regiment of the division and carefully looked into their per- sonnel, medical officers, and hospital corps men, as well as into their sujiplies. Q. What was the result of this inspection? A. The result was that 1 found the number of hospital corps men rather small, although perhaps efficient, and the amount of the hospital medical supplies fairly adeciuate. I found from two to three ambulances, with their horses and equip- ments, with each regiment, properly fitted out with a driver find medical chests. I also took one of those ambulances, the oldest and lightest, and fitted it out as a medicine wagon— that is, it had boxes placed inside and some shelving and some canvas bags, so that a quantity of supplies and stores could be placed in that wagon and readily accessible at any time. Q. Was the supply that you found there and prepared as you have already in- dicated — was it, in your judgment, sufficient for the wants of the cavalry division for any considerable length of time? A. Not for any length of time. Q. For what time? A. It was about sufficient for, ijerhaps, two weeks. (^. Were the supplies of such a character that had an engagement, or several engagements, taken place you could have supplied all the necessary dressings for an expected number of wounded for your division? A. I think so. Q. Were those supplies — those ambulances, this hospital wagon — taken with your command? A. No, sir; they were not. They were left behind. Q. By whose order? A. By order of the corps commander, General Shatter. Q. Did you receive a written order to leave these things behind? A. No; biit I was told by General Wheeler, the commanding general of the cav- alry, that the ambulances should not go. I insisted upon taking my surgica wagon and that I was told I could take until the very last moment, when I was informed that even that could not go. Q. Who gave you the information that you could not take that? A. General Wheeler. Q. Do you know whether or not an order was issueoch with their c«Hps and drviskms and teiga Je keadqvartexs? A- To soeh an. eitair Eha: there has never been any eonq^aznt, ^&ar or Tntn^-riaHyj that h2£ ever reached me, of any delay more than two m the bfeaki]^ down of a wagm or froau — -7- -i keep rmm^ediateiy in the rear of an army it was in adTance. Gen. James H. WH- . service establishei tmder fire at AiboTiito. :rps to es;abli&h a srati'iai he •lirected him T cx>tild get tmtil he wi^ ±r=-i at. A. No. r- (4. T: ^ CUWIt' qnart- aade. A. T to be 'rrs and tne ntrac- -._. _: : iin^ at E Caner " i3 rapidly as General Sijiiiter ordo^ it cw permitted it - : oat with foil ecmpJemoit ci. Signal Corps s^^ies -- ^eci^al declined to take it. :o be loaded? A. 2^0. - Q. Do 7 A. Becfc Q. Wasi: ^: I-—-- --■ A. Yes, sir. Q. Do joa. know why it was not taben siiao^-. the reason that th.^ cr«nman<3ing genaal had for not taking it aSoog"^ A- They sever gare me anyreason hot that he deeKned to take it. Igotmyrnfor- matxm. throo^ my r*rirf a^nal offie^. 1 telegraphed him and ?aid that I nnrr with the Fifth Corps: A- Capt. Frank Green, of my corps, then major, then colood of the Regular Army, and who was afterwards selected and soit by me at his own =pecial zeqnest. BRIG. GE>-. ADOLPHCS W. GSEELY. 2927 Q. Did that leare the Fifth Corpe or the army operatrag' in front of Santiago withont any electrical c5ommtQiicatian~ between the comTnanitipg general's head- qnarteTb and the sabor>liiiate hea-i'marter-?? A. I understand— 1 don't kn- - ■ that it was taken withont hiir fc: — "- •rl-'r — what we call 2 or 3 mCe^ ible. It is not intended to te tl?t 1 f r any permanent work in connecting an army with a division or bri_ qnarters. and to be nsed where yon send '.'Qt a Tnaii irhere you want t: _ ^ _ . r. connection for an hour or two and r^lace it next day with a permanoit o>n:: ac- tion. That was the only material that was taken along with the army. (^. Governor Woodbury asks if it was used. General? A. So. sir: I don't know that it was ever used. What was used was that which I supplied independently. By General Dodge: Q. What w^as used you suppuc^i indei-enaTntly? A. Yes. sir. By General Beavee: ^. What supplies were theyr A. When I Itame-l that there wa~ ^ t -^\i{& material going there. I felt it was a duty devolving on me to s.:* to zur: carrying out of arr^igeiiients which wc'uld give the esecTitive department in Washington sT>ecicJ cable oonrmunica- tion with our army in Cu'ba. wherever it should land, and when I sent down my ctfBcer 1 toid him to load up what space he had with telephones anJ t-ele^raph instruments and esjiecially devised telegraphic wire, very strong, specially made wire, that was specially instilated, so that it could be used anywhere, and it was this supply of wire and these telephones that -were used to connect General Shafter's headquarters with his " ' ' " — - -^^ - - - — --. - - ; :--- the war cable which was laid: _ except from this supply. Q. From what point were these sup^lie-- a^iit? A, Originally from Xew York, an! ■ _ Key West. By G^eneral I>:>r>GE: Q. Who was in charge: A- Colonel Allen, an officer of my corps w^ho was esx»=cially x^dsr my coders. By General Beavee : Q. Where is he now': A. On duty: on General Miles "s staff — General MHes Ictaned him to me, as he was the omcer I thought best suited for that purrose. Q. Is he now in Washington? A. No. sir; he will be here in a day or rw"o now. At present he is on s«?nie special work in New York. Q. There was telegraph or telephone oinr; : " -: ther tervreen thr crSiSt and the army on the battle line? A Yes. sir: there was commxaiiearion iTom t_r ilx-.Tiave Mars: - War Department to the nring lines on the right, center, and left of G^i.- ... •: _ it-rx in the trenches. By GT:>vemor W.>^r>BrBT: Q. From his headquarters? A. Yes, sir. Q. Before the battles: A. Yes, sir; -we opened c.nxnitmication from Washington over this sj^ecial sys- tem of cables with General Shafter. It was. I tiiiak, the ~7th >ir the 5%Rh of Jrme.- 2928 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. one of these days; and we were laying this wire just as fast as General Shatter would have it laid; it could have been laid earlier if it had been ordered. When he left he took the tfleyrapli line witli him; he kept himself communicated with the rear. This wire was such that it could be laid in the road or thrown up in the bushes and operated that way. We neither had lances, which we should have had, which were left at Tampa, or anything else to put up lines, so we just put them on the bushes and worked them that way. Q. What was the strength of the Signal Corps at Tampa assigned to the Fifth Corps, General? A. I can not tell you. I think when the war broke out I had 36 sergeants avail- able, excluding 14 who were i^romoted in the Volunteer Signal Corps, and there were some detached men and transferred men that were transferred and detached at the last moment and ordered to duty there. There were two detachments there. My impression is in wh;it made a telegraph and signal detachment. There were about 3 officers and perhaps 28 men, and in the balloon detachment there were two or three officers and about 24 men. Q. Did General Shafter take these men with him, or did he leave them at Tampa also? A. He took them with him. Q. But left the supplies at Tampa? A. Yes, sir. Q. Of what did these supplies consist? A. There was a complete arrangement for building what we called a " flying wire," about 50 miles in length. Q. With those lances? A. Yes, sir; put up at the rate of 2 or 3 miles an hour, according to conditions. Q. Had you enough force in your department to operate all the lines that you regarded as liable to be eree-ted in the course of the war at the outbi'eak of the war? A. No, sir. Q. There is no difference between the army telegraph and the commercial sort, is there? A. None whatever, excepting in the Army we have to use some ingenuity and work under disadvantages. Q. You don"t have as complete facilities as in commercial life? A. No, sir. Q. Do you think there would have been any difficulty in securing telegraph operators from civil lite to operate in your dei^artment? A. No, sir; Congress did not authorize a single credit until the 20th of May, and I sent the first company of civilians which was organized in any sort of shape to Santiago, and I think they got there on the oth orGth of July: that is to say, thirty days from the time they were in their civil occupations they were in the trenches in Santiago. Q. What other facilities, General, have you in your department for communi- cating from one point to another with an army in the field? A. By heliograph, flags, and lanterns. Q. For what distance is the heliograph available? A. Any distance, if you have the sun and a good atmosphere; any distance that you wanted it almost; we have sent messages 184 miles by heliograph. By General JMcCoqk: Q. That was in the Department of Colorado, was it not. General? A. Yes, sir. By Governor Woodbury: Q. In this connection. General. 1 would like to ask if the line that was con- structed for General Shafter Ijefore the battles was satisfactory? BRIG. GEN. ADOLPHUS W. GREELY. 2929 A. Entirely so. Of course the line was interrupted now and then partly by the ignorance of the men. We had no proper men to patrol it. We should have mounted men to x^atrol a line of that sort, particularly when lying on the ground; and the men, you know— it is so stated, at any rate— had almost nothing in the way of helping to put up shelters or anything of that sort, and when they saw this line lying on the ground they would come along and cut out 10 or 20 feet of it and use it as a rope, you know. The volunteer soldiers did that and a number of things, and it was thought once or twice that the line was cut maliciously, but I can not say as to that. Outside of that there never was any trouble in the work- ing. There was one complaint made by Admiral Sampson, of the Navy, that a cipher dispatch which was sent by these volunteers over the line by telephone, was not delivered to him in quite as good condition as it should have been. Well, you all know the difficulty of sending cipher words over any telegraph line. Those words all mean nothing. There were some German, some French, and some Italian words; and the message that was complained of — why, the exi:)ert officers of the French caljle company made seven errors in it, and I believe the volunteers, not wishing to be outdone in the matter, made twice as many more as the French company. That is the only complaint that was made. General Beaver. A message in cipher is like a jiroper name; it means nothing until you repeat it letter by letter? A. Yes, sir; we all know the difficulty of recognizing certain words over the telephone in Washington even, and these men were working up to their knees in mud at tlie time, and in all sorts of discomfort; that they had no protection, and errors might easily have taken place. Q. As I understand it, General, your department was equal to any demand that might be made upon it by the armies in the field, either by way of supplies or in the way of men? A. There has never been a demand of any kind made that the corps tailed to meet. Q. Did your corps have the heliograph service in Cuba? A. No, sir; the country does not lend itself to it. It is a wooded country, and you have got to have a prominent point to communicate one to the other. We had telephones and telegraphs. We used a flag in communicating with the Hai- tian Government. Of course, we had a signal station there, which communicated regularly with Admiral Sampson. For instance, when the navy bombarded San- tiago there was an officer stationed at a certain point, where he could see what was going on, and there was one of our men alongside of it, and he telephoned down to General Shatter where the shots fell— whether to the left or the right of such points as were designated, and this information General Shatter telephoned. Thus the signaling to the fleet was at all times directed to the Signal Corps. By General Beaver: Q. The navy was informed as to the effect of each shot, where it fell and what was its effect? A. Yes, sir. For instance, they would say the shot fell 100 yards to the left of the cathedral or 200 yards beyond it. Q. What is the weight of a mile of such wire as you use in the field, General? A. No. 14 wire weighs about 14 pounds. Perhaps what you may want to get at may be better stated as follows: That the 11 miles of complete material— a line of II miles and instruments for it— would be carried in an army wagon, making an ordinary load of about 4,000 pounds. Q. That is what I was going to get at— just what amount of transportation was- required to supply an army in the field with the necessary apparatus. A. Two army wagons would have supplied all that was needed down there. 7833— VOL. (J 34 2930 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. By General Dodge: Q. Was General Shaf ter aware of the arrangements that you had made? A. He never knew it until he reached the south coast of Cuba. All that work was done by me independently of him. Q. Was that after you heard of his failure to take the material from Tampa? A. I had commenced to open a special cable communication with Cuba, wher- ever our army wanted it, a month before General Shaffer left Tampa. I had to go to work and have the table made, get my vessel, machinery, and have it installed, and all that work had to be commenced before a thing could be put in operation. It was only after I learned what was done that I ordered the special wire and material to be taken down. Q. "When did you begin to make preparations? A. Some time previous. I had before looked over the ground, and 1 felt that it was my business not only to svipply everything that was wanted— knowing that volunteer officers did not know what they wanted— not only to supply these men with what they asked, but Avith everything I thought they would want, and I took pains to do it by establishing depots and supplies. I did not make the requi- sitions to be sent to me. Q. Did you have any funds available for preparation for the emergency which I suppose you, in connection with others, saw was likely to arise? A. No, sir. When the war broke out I had $800 — all the money I had. Q. Did you get any ai^propriation from the national defense fund — the $50,000,000 fund? A. Yes, sir. I succeeded in getting some. I think altogether I got from that fund about $125,000 to $140,000— somewhere along there. Q. Was that available before the declaration of war or did it come subsequently? A. It was available before tlie war, but it was not used for field work. I got this money for electric insulation and artillery posts, so as to put our own coast in a proper state of defense. I had no money up to the declaration of war. I do not think I had a dollar that could be used for operations outside of the United States. Q. So that you were not able to anticipate the probable needs of cable and other means of communication with the War Department, for instance, and the other Executive Departments here? A. Well, I anticipated — that is to say, I had this problem to work out in my mind: I knew just what was wanted and approximately what it would cost, and i had all my information gained, everything of that sort, so that when I did get my money I lost no time in getting to work. I got the sum of $174,000 from Con- gress—the money which I used during the war in the field all came from Congress by appropriations excejiting $15,000, which was for war balloons. Q. To what extent were the war balloons of pi'actical use during our operations in Cuba? A. For enabling us to see the roads and byways and the general topography of the country i*i front of our army, which I understand had never been reconnoi- tered — for instance, the balloons which went up; of course, I am a little uncer- tain as to the dates; I think it was on the 1st or 2d of July — the 2d, I think— the last time the balloon ever went up it was put up on a skirmishing line and was shot to pieces and fell into the San Juan River— the Aguadores River— and on that occasion there was discovered about 400 yards in front of this point a road which was undiscovered before, and which enabled General Kent's division — a part of it — to be turned off on this road; I can hardly say deployed, because there was no opportunity for deploying there; but this road enabled two lines of troops to advance on San Juan Hill, where otherwise there would only have been one. The discovery of this road effected a prompt movement on the part of our troops to San Juan. BRIG. GEN. ADOLPHU8 W. GREELY. 2931 By Colouel Denby: Q. How high? A. The balloon went tip, I think, only loO feet. The drag ropes caught in the chaparal there, and they were unable to get it up higher at that time. You know that it was in a hrushy country, a very narrow trail, in the bed of a river, and when they got in the bed of this river 1 believe a trailing x"ope broke. Q. How high was it expected to go, General'.'' A. It ought to have gone up nearly 1,000 feet. Q. If it had gone uiJ that distance, would it have been shot to pieces? A. I think not. I have stated in my report, contrary to Lieutenant Maxfield's opinion, who said the balloon covild not live there, biit who, when he got orders, went with our corps officer, who said that wherever the commauding general expected them to go they would go, and as a conseciuence th^y did go; and Max- field had his horse shot under him in the morning. He went up in the basket and shared all the dangers of the men there in the balloon. Q. How many ascensions were made during the operations in Cuba? A. Four were made. The balloon was kept on board ship for about a week. After it got down there neither the balloon nor the party was allowed to land. General Shatter suddenly concluded to iise the balloon, and called Colonel Green to his headquarters and told him to go on and get the balloon landed. The bal- loon was landed that day, and, as I have said in my report, we had material for filling the balloon and inflating it by manufactured gas there in the generator; and then we had compressed in tubes pure hydrogen, which we got after very great difficulty from New York, to supply the leakage, and we expected to be able to put the balloon up and operate it for a couple of weeks, generating gas and supplying the leakage. Q. Would you carry these tnbes with you In the basket? A. Just underneath the basket, so that when it went down we would turn a cock and load it up again. Colonel Maxfield reported to me that there was only one inflation, when we had expected there would have been six or seven. By Governor Woodbury: Q. On what vessel did you ship the supplies that were used in the construction of the telephone and telegraphic service which were used before the battles of San Juan and El Caney? A. They went down on the Adi'ia. Q. Where did she go from and what time did she leave? A. She went from New York to Key West, and then down to cut the cables off Santiago. She arrived at Guantanamo and establislied special connections with New Yoi'k. She was there the day — two days — before General Shaffer landed. Then she went over to Haiti to Mole St. Nicholas, where I cabled Colonel Allen to furnish Colonel Green what he wanted of this material. Q. Did she leave New York before or after the sailing of General Shaffer's expedition? A. Some time before that she was at Key West. (^. Then she was supplied with all these materials that were used there before you knew that General Shatter had declined to take those you had at Tampa? A. Yes, sir; but the things we put in at New York were sent down to Key West to be unloaded there. I had difficulty in getting supplies down there, and as she was going there direct orders were given to take this war material to Key West for the purpose of outfitting the command which was to go from Kej' West, as it was understood at that time. Q. Did you countermand the order to leave those supiplies at Key West? A. Yes, sir; I told him to take everything along with him that he had. Q. What time did this shipment leave Key West? 21 'o2 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. She left Key West about — I think it was about the 27th of May; somewhere along that. Q. Did she return to Key West iintil after the battle? A, No, sir. Q. Well, then, these supplies were really shipited from the United States before you knew that General Shaffer had refused to take those supplies? A. Yes, sir; the order was given. I knew the condition of affairs after General Shaffer declined to take them down with him; but I had made this general provi- sion, as I said, in case of anything being wanted, but of course I did not antici- pate that there would have been any refusal to take the things along. By General Beaver: Q. Were you supplied with ocean cables to any extent so as to connect the lines that communicated between Cuba and the United States? A. Yes, sir; I had GO miles of cable specially manufactured for the purpose of connecting our army, wherever it landed, with the nearest cable system that was in operation on tlie island of Cuba. Q. You knew, of course, where the several cables were laid and what their ter- minals were? A. Yes, sir; in a general way; of course the exact landing points of cables in the south coast of Cuba had always been kept more or less secret, but we knew within 2 or ;5 miles. Q. Did you have machinery for grappling and securing the cables that you severed? A. Yes, sir; there was one cable lifted about 4,000 feet, when it broke. Then there was anoth(!r cable which was lifted over 6.000 feet and taken on board the Adria and cut so as to destroy the connection, and later, the apparatus — the French cable company which had been cut between Santiago and Guantanamo, on the south coast of Cuba, and that cable was repaired by Colonel Allen, of the Adria, and later we laid 41 miles of wire cable between Playa del Este and Siboney. Q. Did the expedition to Porto Rico have with it a full supply of field and elec- trical apparatus? A. Yes, sir. Q. That was made available at once, was it, upon the landing of the-troops there? A. Yes. sir. Of the four or five divisions that were operating in Porto Rico with Ponce as a basis three of them were kept in constant communication with head- quarters, and the fourth one it was thought would not need any communication at first, but later they decided to have it, and we established it. The communication was such that three of the commands in the field were notified within thirty-seven minutes after the jieace protocol had been signed, and so hostilities ceased — two of them were just going into action. I made it a point to see— it possibly being a necessity that the army in the Philippines were similarly supplied and that their lines in the trendies were operated under fire, and the lines were prolonged and extended during the attack on Manila. Q. Were you in any way hindered in your operations l)y superior headquarters; in any way by any of your suiierior officers? A. I was not hindered by anybody; no, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. Did the service suffer by reason of your not taking that material to Santiago, or did you get along well without it? A. Well, that would be an expression of opinion about General Shaffer's opera- tions, which I do not feel competent to express without knowing the whole thing. Q. The que.stion is simply whether you sui)plied the wants without having that material with you? BRIG. GEN. ADOLPHUS W. GREELY. 2933 A. The lines to El Caney, for instance, and San Juan Hill, and other points might have been put in two or three days earlier, but of course I know nothing of the difficulties or reasons which prevented General Shatter from laying these lines, except what was stated to me imofficially by one of my officers, that General Shaffer on the 1st of July or the 2d of July, with the things which he had, expected to go into Santiago, and that he would not need anymore telegraph lines. He did not think that the exigencies were such that it was necessary that he should take them with him, but later he needed them. I do not know, as I stated before, the difficulties or reasons — 1 only surmise those were the ones General Shatter had in mind: that he would not need an extensive system. By General Beaver: Q. Were you hindered or delayed in any way in your operations by those who were your superiors? A. I was not hindered in any way, but as you can understand, when a great war comes on the Department, and it is not supplied with men or material, that the Secretary of War is to be necessarily convinced that the necessary wants are to be properly supplied. Q. Yes. A. [Continuing.] The Secretary at one time before war was declared seemed to think that we had to be very cautious — myself at any rate, as to what I sjient and what money was to be given me to spend — it was natural, of course, under the circumstances. However, I got everything I asked for, and was hindered by no one. Q. And practically you were able to meet the emergency when the emergency came? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you any suggestions to make to us. General, that will be helpful to us in our investigations or that would be of use in the future in regard to the opera- tions of the Signal Corps with armies in the field: if so we would be very glad to have you state them? A. I have nothing further to state to you about armies in the field save what I have said; but as I stated in my annual report it is a very dangerous thing for any commanding general to take an army to any point, or especially into a foreign country, without being provided with ample electrical means of communication with his base and with his subordinate commands. I think our system in the Army is very bad— is obsolete. I think, for instance, that there should be some officer in the American Army whose business it is to see that the American soldier is fed, and this of course is not in the nature of criticism on this war, but I think there ought to be conditions which would enable the commanding gen- eral of the forces to be held strictly responsible for the military and provisional part of it; that is. that each department should have control over the supplies and wants of a certain department. Q. Do you mean by that that our several departments are too much subdivided and too much independent of each other? A. I think that one department— the Quartermaster's Department, of which there has been the most complaint— is a department that has so much to do that with its present organization I do not see how it can do it satisfactorily. I believe that we should have a supply department with a manager at its head, and three business men should do all this work of paying, feeding, and the other part of it. For instance, take the Paymaster-General. I don't sui)pose his actual work would cover, even in time of war, more than a few office hours; and I don't see why the Commissary- General— but we know that the Quartermaster-General works until midnight every night during the entire war— and I think that the (piestion of feed- ing, clothing, and paying of th<- Army is not a military one but a business one, and one which three business men. if they came together, could devise a system superior to ours. 2934 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By Colonel Denby: Q. What would you do with the Medical Department? A. That is a special corps of which I know nothing. I think that the Inspector- General's and the Adjutant-General's Departments should be merged together. By General Beaver: Q. That is, for a military reason? A. Yes, sir. For my own corps I have nothing to say ranch about, because It. perhaps for the first time in history, has placed itself, as I think it has generally been admitted, in a position where it is acknowledged as an absolute necessity, this being an electrical age. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Were any of your officers or men killed or wounded. A. No, sir; no one was killed. We had one man wounded, and two officers had their horses shot under them. The corps is not armed. I want to say one thing about the corps, and that is the wonderful record which we made, and which the President mentioned in his message, up to the time of the peace protocol: that is, we only had 5 men and officers wotinded in the field out of 13,000 men. By Colonel Denby: Q. Have you any special ideas as relating to your own corps? A. No. sir: but I firmly impressed on every man the importance of lookjng after his men and taking care of them. I practically told every officer that the men who came under his command, so far as the Army was concerned, were like a lot of children, and that they should look after them particularly as to their food, bedding, etc. By General Beaver: Q. So your corps was specially instructed as to these things, General? A. Yes, sir: the officers were, and I made it a point, as far as I could, to visit every one of these great camps and see them myself and that the officers in charge took an interest in their men to see that they were i)roperly supplied with the necessary food and bedding. Q. Your corps. General, as a general thing, is to a large extent isolated, that is, having quarters of their own? A. They camp by themselves, as a regiment would do. or as a battery would do, and, in addition to that, you must remember that mj' men are scattered all over the bad places as well as the good. If a man has got his camp headquarters, the telephone men have properly got to go oif 15 to 20 miles — at some of the stations I think they were 20 miles apart, and the men were sent out by themselves and had to take their meals with them, but they were relieved every day. Q. Had the men who were connected with brigade headciuarters, for example — the men at headquarters, did they mess with the headquarters staff, or did they have one of their own? A. They had their own most of the time. The Signal Corps men are not attached to the brigades. The corps commander says where they are to go. They sent ten or fifteen of them, according to circumstances. By Governor Woodbury : Q. But, General, did they have to carry their own mess with them? A. That is a matter of detail. In the great camps they, as a rule, did not. Where a man would be detached permanently to look after something, he would then be assigned to some mess and get his rations at that moss, if he was at head- quarters, but the officers in my corps were instructed to use their best judgment to see that the men were well cared for. These are mere details, and the main idea was to see that the men were well cai-ed for. BRIG. GEN. ADOLPHUS W. GREELY. 2935 Q. These electrical appliances, if well used, I suppose, superseded, to a large extent, the old wigwag system? A. Yes, sir: I never speak of th« flag in connection with signaling, because it is the last thing. First, telephone, then the telegraph, then the heliograph, and then the flag. Q. Instead of being at the head it is now at the tail of rapid communication? A. Yes, sir. By General McCook: Q. General Greely, will you tell iis how it was that Cervera's fleet was discov- ered in the harbor? A. It was discovered by a report from Captain Allen, of my corps, from Key West, from special information obtained by him from Havana. On the 19th of May, the date that (.'ervera arrived jit Santiago — he arrived at 2 p. m., and the fact was made known that very day that the fleet was there. Q. You knew all about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did Captain Allen get this information? A. Through special agents in Havana that were thoroughly reliable; in fact, from the very beginning of the war until the end we got special information every day or two of what was happening all over Cuba, and whenever there was an attack made on the south coast, or any bombardment, or anything of that sort, it was made known to us at once. Q. How did you communicate between Santiago and Havana? A. Ovir confidential men were in Havana, and they were so situated that they knew everything that was going on. By General Wilson: Q. In your charge of this department during the war did you or did you not receive loyal assistance from your superiors in the War Department whom you called upon for such? A. Yes, sir; without exception. I have acknowledged that in my annual report. I never knew of one occasion in my history and in my association with the War Department when there was the same spirit of loyal support and cooperation between the different bureau chiefs as during this war, and all the little petty jealousies, which was the trouble in time of peace, more or less, all disappeared. By General Beaver: Q. General, if you have anything more to say, you may make a statement. A. I want to say that an important part of the work of the Signal Corps during the war was the exercising of a telegraphic censorship, which applied to all the land lines in Florida and to all cables. American and foreign, that had their ter- mini within the limits of the Unitetl States. The final work of the corps was connecting all the military posts in the harbors and with the installation of the electrical system in connection with the fire control— this modern artillery method. By Colonel Denby: Q. What is that. General? A. The electrical installation of the fire control of the artillery. It is where a man at a distance determines by a range finder the distance of a ship, and he communicates that to the officer in charge of the fire control; and he com- municates, after determining the position of the ship, every thirty seconds. He fixes on the instant when he shall fire, and he communicates that to every gun, or a single gun, or a number of selected guns in a battery: and all this has to be done instantly. And that is the electrical work of my corps. It covers all the artillery in this country. The observer first says the bearing is 2936 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. sncli a degree and such a distance off, or he gives the angles from his jioint. and he communicates that to the fire officer, who has a cliart of the harbor, and he pvits down a dot showing the location of the ship, and thirty seconds later that is repeated; and those dots are connected by a line, and they know it takes so many seconds for the gun to be discharged, and so many seconds for the flight of the projectile; and the officer in that way determines when he wants to fii-e. It is a complicated system, and applied for the first time generally to the artillery during this war. Q. Would the observer and the man firing the gun be together? A. No, sir; they are 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 miles apart. The gun, when it is to be dis- charged, raises and fires and then drops back into its pit, Q. In the exercise of the press censorship had you any trouble with foreign powers? A. No, sir. Q. They had a French line from Santiago? A. Yes, sir. The French line — I had to make what we call a "deal " with them; special cable facilities between Washington and the south coast of Cuba. I prom- ised the President that I would give him an hour's service — I do not know but what we had better strike out about my making a " deal." I might say we made arrangements with the French cable company, within the limits of strict neutral- ity, that they should give facilities to the United States Government between Washington and the south coast of Cuba. In connection with that an hour's service was promised to the President, and the first message that came in came in five minutes, notifying the President that the office was open. We kept that up all the time during the war, and General Shaffer was at no time more than twenty minutes away from the War Department during the campaign. Q. Did you do that in Manila too? A. I did as far as could be done. The English cable there was closed Ity the action of Spain and the English telegraph company, which had a special subsidy with Spain, and I got special authority from Spain after the protocol was signed, but my office had it opened five days ahead of them. Q. Manila was captured after the protocol was signed? A. Yes, sir. Q. Why could not that have been prevented? A. Because Spain would not consent to the reopening of the cable at that time. Q. Did you cut the cable? A. Yes, sir; my officer there did. By General Wilson: Q. Who was your officer who did the work there? A. Lieutenant-Colonel Thompson. By General Beaver: Q. Who was in charge of the censorship of the press— who was the officer? A. There was no censorship of the press. It was a censorship of the messages which passed over the military lines. Q. Were any press messages sent over the military press wires? A. Yes, sir. Q. And they were, of course, subjected to your censorship? A. Yes, sir: everything was. Q. Who was the officer in charge of that? A. I was the officer in charge of that. Everything at all doubtful came to me. I had a subordinate officer in New York in charge of all the cables there, and an officer at Key West, but anything doubtful was referred to me. Q. Who was the officer at Key West? BRIG. GEN. ADOLPHUS W. GREELY. 2937 A. First, Colonel Tlioinpson for a few days, succeeded by Colonel Allen, who was succeeded by Captain Brady; th<^n Lieutenant Maxfield, succeeded by Lieu- tenant-Colonel Squire, succeeded by Lieutenant Squires. Q. In transmitting messages from the commanding general in the field to head- quarters there were they interfered with in any way by this censorshii) you have spoken of? A. No, sir; the censorship established, having seized the lines, gave the military messages first call and second the naval messages. They had absolute precedence. They were facilitated by this operation. Q. They were transmitted, or supposed to l)e transmitted, just as they were received? A. They always were. We never exercised any censorship over them. They were exempt from the prohibitions. Q. Who was responsible for the messages other than those of the war and navy as to what re ached the public? A. My officers were directed to strike out and withhold any message containing information as to pending military movements, or which, on their face, contained information detrimental to the United States, or cipher messages, excepting only that 'diplomatic representatives of foreign governments were allowed to send cipher messages. Q. Did only our Government's representatives or foreign representatives to their governments send messages without this censorship? A. Once or twice there were blind ciphers — apparently simple messages would be liled containing secret information; but most of those cases were detected and dropped, the paper being put into the waste-paper basket. By Colonel Denby; Q. Had you no officer who had the right to determine whether a message should go or not, or did you refuse all cipher messages? A. All cipher messages, except army and navy and diplomatic matters. Q. 1 think that is wrong. During the war between China and Japan we had the right to send any message after it had been submitted to the inspector. A. Our cipher censorship only covered the West Indies and the Spanish Main. That did not cover everj'thing that went out of the country. The work was so enormous, and, as you gentlemen realize, there are limits to what any single man can do; and we had onlj^ nine officers of the regular corps on duty and I had no regular oflScer here to help me with the duty. By General Beaver: Q. This general censorship, then. General, was governed by rules you laid down and not by any private feelings of any officers connected with the corps? A. Not at all. A set of rules was filed with every telegraph company, and over most of the lines the censorship was exercised by the superintendent of the com- pany. The heads of these corporations pledged themselves on that point, and if any message was doubtful they referred it to my officer. Q. Under the rules as to sending anything which might not be proper for public information the judgment of the officer comes necessarily into play there? A. Yes, sir; necessarily. Now, violent attacks on the Administration filed to be sent abroad I would not allow those to go. If they were within the reasonable bounds of criticism, I would let them go. Some English papers complained of my dictatorial methods in regard to them, and they made a formal complaint about it; and it was brought up and I was asked to send on a sample message, and they had it here but five minutes when they sent word that the methods of the officer in charge were entirely approved. They were in many cases similar to the tele- grams printed in the so-called "yellow journals " throughout this country. 2938 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Was your coui'se in that matter dictated by superior authority or were you allowed to exercise your judgraent in the administration or control of that office? A. I acted in accordance with instructions which left me free to act as I thought best. I was informed that I was expected to act so as to avoid friction if possible. There was but one violent attack on me, and otherwise I saw none. General Eckert, John W. Mackay, and Mr, Scrimser said, "Anything you want done, let us know;" and they fully agreed with my action all the way through. General Dodge. Any other questions for the witness? (No response.) Washington, D. C, December 13, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. Brig. Gen. Charles P. Eagan then appeared before the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By General Beavee: Q. General, please state your name, your rank, and the office j'ou held during the late war. A. My name is Charles P. Eagan, brigadier-general and commissary-general in the United States Army. Q, How long have you been in the Commissary Department of the Army? A. Since 1874. Q. And how long in your present position. A. Since May 3 of this year— May 4, I should say. Q. You assumed charge of j'our department after the declaration of war with Spain? A. Yes, sir. Q. At the time you took charge of that department, state, if you please, if you found the troops in the field well supplied with subsistence, or what the condition of affairs was in general. A. When I assumed charge, the reports in my office show that there was a plentiful supply, present and en route, at all gatherings of troops. Q. Has there ever been a time since when that was not the case? A. Never to my knowledge, either directly or indirectly. I mean by that through official or unofficial reports. Q. What complaints have you received as to the quality of the ration? What is the weak place in the army ration? A. Outside of the complaints which have been forwarded to the commission by me, the general complaints from mothers and people interested in the troops, also from hearsay, I have received no complaints; but I have received reports showing that about seven-tenths, or 70 per cent, of the officers express a dissatisfaction with the tinned roast beef, etc. Q. That is the point I was wanting to get at. A. That Is the only thing I can call to mind where anything has had complaint made of it — that is, with reference to the (quality. Q. On investigating those complaints what did you find, as a matter of fact, with regard to them? A. I sent down the moment the first complaint reached me— or rather adverse opinions, not complaints, nothing has come to me in the fonn or nature of a com- plaint, but reports adverse to it — that they did not like it, I immediately had an BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2939 inspection of all of it I had on hand at the different posts. I had oificers to report to me with a view to looking into it, and they reported to me that it was in good condition and good for use. My idea was possibly some ''game '" had been played on the department because of the meat being put up in tin. The reports were favorable, and none were made against it on the part of the officers who inspected it. I had some of it brought into my office, and I looked at it and it was good. I will send some to the commission here if you wish it. Q. How is that canned — by the expulsion of air and then hermetically sealed? A. It is really boiled boef. The English call it boiled beef, and our Navy uses it, and I asked the Assistant Paymaster-General, I asked him about it, and it was partly on his recommendation that I ordered some. The beef is boiled, sir, and in the boiling a certain amount of the strength is carried off with the liquid and steam. I did not dare to buy it with the liquid. It looks bad enough, biat it is perfectly sweet and toothsome and nice, and I hope the committee will look at it. I bought it as a substitute for fresh beef, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q. Is that the first time you have used it? A. Yes, sir: our regular travel ration is corned beef. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What made yon buy it? A. The examinations of my predecessor: and I have talked with many officers, they stating that they liked it, and 1 then asked, "What can you think of to replace it? "' and I have some letters from Army officers saying that while they do not like it day in and day oiit, they do not know of anything to take its place. By General Beaver: Q. Is it, in your opinion, better than fre.sh beef fried? A. No, sir: not where you can get it Q. I mean fresh meat fried in fat? A. No, sir: the fresh meat is more desirable. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you cause an inspection to be made of this? A. Yes, sir: the officer who purchased it inspected it. By General Dodge: Q. Is it inspected on the foot first, and then followed up right to the can? A. Yes, sir. Furtliermore, I have been rejieatedly informed that this same roast beef — it is not roast beef, but boiled beet; that is only a mercantile term for it — I have been repeatedly informed that it is sold by grocers to people who keep house. Q. Well. General, isn't it a fact that one of the greatest objections is because the so\I ■ ; who have eaten it did not have pepper and salt with it? A. When Colonel Roosevelt spoke to me about it I asked him if they used pepper and salt with it and he said no. He said they might as well have the salt ration. I said then that no soldier will march a command on salt meat; that we only used the salt beef on the cars where the soldiers can get plenty of water. Q. The testimony before us is that it is a palatal ile dish with salt and pepper. • A. There were oceans of pepper and salt. Its proper use is with potatoes, onions, and tomatoes. They were sent to the soldiers, but that they did not reach the soldiers is a matter concerning the transportation department. One of the objections to it is the grease, but the very fat there is evidence of its prime (faidity. Q. The evidence before us is that where used as a travel ration, and pepper and salt is not used with it, it is not desirable, but that if the pepper and salt were used it would be better. 2940 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Any officer asking for the pepper and salt could have gotten it. Q. But the pepper and salt, it is not a part of the travel ration— it is not issued vnth the beef? A. The pepper and salt is a part of the ration, and should be issued with the beef. By Colonel Denby: Q. What is the difference between the canned corned beef and the canned roast beef? A. None, except that the canned corned beei is made here under pressure. Q. And cooked longer than the roast beef? A. No, sir; one of my objections was that it should not be overcooked. They told me it should only be cooked sufficient to preserve it. I found out afterwards, upon investigation, that the liqiiid which they extract from the beef was sold as a beef extract by one firm. Q. My impression was that the man who puts it up said that the corned beef was cooked more. They are prepared exactly the same, only one is cooked longer than the other, and when they put it in the cans they put in the things that corn it. One is cooked longer than the other simply to preserve it. A. The moment I learned that it was in any degree distasteful I would have looked for something to take its place. Q, I understand the corned beef is cooked an hour and a half and the roast beef twenty minutes? A. Then the roast beef should be much better. Q. They also testified that they took nothing from it for selling? A, I understood differently; but they only cook the meat sufficient to keep it. By General Beaver: Q. Is it possible for this canned beef to become infe.^ted with vermin after canning? A. No. sir; but this may cover the point in your mind: In the case of this canned beef, if one or two cans break open, the odor is intolerable, but it does not affect the meat. Down in Tampa they started in to condemn a carload until it was shown that the odor Avas occasioned by one or two cans which had broken open. But this did not affect the balance— that is, the cans not opened could not be affected by it. But still the odor in the entire car is sufficient to make you believe everything is rotten. Q. Have you in your department any difficulty in getting stores from one point to another? A. Yes, sir. Q. Please tell us about that. A. There was a case in New York— I would have to refer to my office to get the exact date— where the potatoes and onions for Porto Rico were left on the wharf in New York, and onions and potatoes were also left in the bottom of a ship with other things over them, and when they were brought up they were brought up rotten. I understood there was difficulty in Tampa with regard to the loading, and when I learned it I telegraphed to the commissary to ascertain what was to be done, and I told him to prefer charges against the (luartermaster if he was to blame. I have not taken action in any of these cases, only to go to the Quarter- master-General's Office in person, and he has shown a commendable disposition to do what he ccnild. Q. Would it contribute to a satisfactory administration of your department if the Commissary-General controlled transportation from the point of loading to the point of disembarkation? A. I think that the Subsistence Department should purchase the food, convey it, BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2941 and hand it to the soldiers. I do not think in this country there will be proper service until that is done. Had I the transportation for General Shafter"s armj', I would have loaded part in one ship and part in another— I would not have trusted all my eggs in one basket— and I would have placed the transports as I did with General Brooke in Porto Rico, and I would have seen that the soldiers would have gotten their rations if human ability could do it. I have a bill before Congress now and hope to get it through, authorizing the Subsistence Department to pur- chase ovens and coffee-mills and other things, so that the commander of a regiment or a company can go to one department and get everything that pertains to food. Q. How about the plates and knives and forksV A. The Subsistence Department should furnish the meals and the implements for cooking and eating them. Especially is that true with volunteers. Then when I sent rations I would send oat everything in proportion. In further answer to that, it is only a couple of days ago that I was on the point of asking the Quartermaster's Department to give mo two ships, one for Cuba and one for Porto Rico, so that I can keep up the proper supplies. Q. From your experience in the late war, are you of the opinion that the Army would have been more regularly and fully fed if you had controlled the transpor- tation and the supply of the cooking utensils and the eating utensils with which the troops were supplied by the Quartermaster's Department? A. I believe that if my department had ha distributed by your office A. The Adjutant-General's Office distributed those. My commissary there wrote a letter on the i:ith, asking if it was 5!) cents, and I wrote in answer on the 15th. Q. Was not there a provision at any time of 30 cents commutation? A. We have commutations at 3.">, 30, 50, 60, 71— no, not 75—60, and $1.50, under different conditions. By General Wilson: Q. Ever sin*ce we started here on the 24th of September, or something after that, we heard of something that took place before the war and kept up until this 60-ceut matter was given, and that was that a 30-cent ration was given. A. A little explanation of General Order No. 116 I will give: I returned to my office from the Secretary of War's office one day, and I found a copy of the tele- gram from General Shaffer asking for §2,000 for chickens. Prior to that, on rep- resentation of needs of the sick at Key West, the Subsistence Department allowed 75 cents for the needs of the sick, and in other cases 60 (;euts was allowed. I took the telegram and went to the Secretary of War. and the Secretary said he would furnish the money out of his own pocket. I told him that the Subsistence Depart- ment could furnish unlimited cash. I told the Surgeon-General what this should become, and I said it should not become a "hospital fund,' and he expressed sur- prise; and I recommended 75 cents, becau e it was over there in Cuba that the rations would be commuted, where anything would cost a gTeafc deal of money, and General Shaffer afterwards expressed his approval of it and telegraphed to the War Department. The Secretary of War at first was going to give that out of his own pocket, as General Shaffer had asked for it. I told the Secretary that that was not necessary, as the Subsistence Department could furnish all the money he wanted. 1 recommended that the 60 cents be allowed to bo expended by the surgeons themselves for li(iuid and solid foods for the men, and I added that the portion not expended in this way should revert back to the appropriation for the subsistence of the Army, and I perfectly understood or believed that that feature would be objectionable to that branch of the service. I made this because during the war the 30-cent ration, when commuted, was not all used, and that money was notturned in, butkept swelling, and after the war it became known as the "hospital fund," and it floated around the country after the war. I did not want this to become a fund at all except to purchase food, solid and liquid, for the soldiers. I think I asked Weston, the commissary at Montauk, why the surgeons did not call for this money. General Whee'er at Montauk had instructions to see the soldiers were properly fed, and he authorized the depot commissary tliere to purchase many things not authorized by law and not on the list of articles for sale, and I, knowing that all those things would have to be purchased outside of what was authorized by law, objected. Later the surgeons made a requisition for money, as per General Order 116, and it was filled on the next .day, the 26th, by the depot commissar}' at New York. Q. Please state if the cost of running your department has been greater than you thought; and if so, for what reason. A. Greater; because the amount of commutation has been greater than usual. The cost was greater during the muster out of the troops; also by reason of their being two weeks in a city in some cases, and I had to board them at restaurants at a cost of 50 or 60 cents a day, and we had to pay clerk hire and telegrams, etc. 2952 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Then you have taken care of the soldier wherever he was until he was mustered oiit? A. Oh, yes, sir. Where he was to be miistered out and had not his mess gear, we directed him to be subsisted at restaurants; and in cases where they preferred to be at home, then they were given their money for the ration, which was com- muted. By General Dodge: Q. As I understand your yearly report, your understanding of that order was that it would cover any sick man? A. Yes, sir: as I explained to them; whether he was sick in the hospital or in quarters. Q. But that construction, I understand, was not carried out. As I understand the construction of that order, as made by the authorities, it was that it only applied to hospitals. A. There were a lot of men tliere not sick enough to put in hospitals, but too sick to eat the regular rations. I sent word to the chief commissary that it was for any man that the doctors thought in a condition not fit to eat the rations. Q. That construction has not been put upon it by the Surgeon-General, has it? A. I do not know what he puts upon it. I urged upon him the necessity and importance of this order to the sick. I subsequently had it extended to trains or boats, and on the transports where the men were sick. Q. Your construction is that any surgeon of any regiment or hospital can draw GO cents for the ration of any man he thinks not fit to eat the regular ration? A. Yes, sir. May I read that part of nij^ telegram to Weston, chief commissary at Montauk? " Meantime the most important thing to do now is the (juestion of providing for the troops. General Order iSo. 11 G covers any and all soldiers that the surgeons consider should receive other food than the regular army rations." And later, in my letters to Colonel Weston, I explained that we had such a thing as ''sick in quarters" as well as ■' sick in hospital," and that it referred to men not well enough to eat the regular ration, but not sick enough to be sent to the hospital; that it referred to men borne by the surgeon as "sick in quarters " and whom the commanding officer woiild not undertake to utilize in any way or call out to drill. Q. We have a great deal of testimonj' about men sick in quarters and not in condition to eat the regular rations. Every surgeon and commissary that we h;ive asked about these men — have stated that there was no way of obtaining this commutation of the ration of men not sent to the hospital. A. Has any commissary testified to that? Q. I don't know that they have. A. I have concentrated large sums of money in the hands of old, experienced Reg- ular Army officers. I did not give hundreds of thousands of dollars to young and inexperienced officers just entering the service. I think my chief commissaries were all regular officers. Other officers, brigade commissaries, I would give five and ten thousand dollars and renew it; and to officers of large experience 1 gave one hundred and two hundred thousand dollars. I think that was a wise course to adopt. By Colonel Denby: Q. Supiiose you have one sick man in a company and he goes to the doctor and the doctor marks him "sick in (luarters; " how does the man get the 60 cents? A. The soldier can do nothing. Q. Who makes the requisitions? A. The surgeon in charge. C^. Would he make a reiiuisition simply for this one man? A. He woiild make a requisition for $100 or §200. The commissaries must honor requisitions for money. BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2953 Q. And when the doctor draws this (iO cents, it must be i-eplaced to the commis- sary by not drawing a ration? A. Yes, sir. Q, But where you apply this to one or two men in a regiment off duty it becomes complicated? A. I think not, sir. Here is a surgeon with nobodj' sick to-day; he calls on the commissary to-morrow and makes a requisition for $500 or $100, and then with this sum he buys each daj' not to exceed 60 cents a day for each sick soldier in his camp. Then he accounts for the balance unexpended and remaining in hand. By Dr. Conner: Q. Has any doctor, so far as the records of your office show, drawn sums and held them for this purpose? Regimental doctors I speak of. A. I could not answer that, sir. I have not had any reports from that. One case I know, where I am confident a regimental doctor took the rations and sold them and the GO cents, too, and he has brought in in addition that the Government is in debt to him. That is referred back, and I am now considering that. Q. Was that a hospital or regimental surgeon? A. 1 think a regimental surgeon, but I think it occurred in a hospital. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Please state whether or not this practice of commutation of rations for sol- diers sick in quarters, which I have no doubt is a wise one, under certain condi- tions, would not tend t(J have them get excused from labor. A. A great many do that, but the doctor looks out for that character of men. By General Dodge: Q. 1 think one of the greatest complaints before us has been from the surgeons of regiments and otliers that it was impossible for them to obtain proper food for men sick in quarters not sick enough to be sent to a hospital; the invariable answer w^as there was only one ration they could give to these men, and that was the regular ration. Now, yoii take the position that order No. 116 covers all those cases. A. Yes, sir; every one of them. The commanding officer and doctor fix that. Q. Now, then, in your opinion the best method for obtaining this Idnd of food for men sick in quarters, but not sufficiently to be sent to hospitals— you think your method would be the most ijraeticable? A. The most sensible and economical. It is the most sensible, economical, and best for this reason, that the Medical Department has objected to that order sim- ply because they must account for the money they do expend. Q. What is the most practicable method? A. Make them obey that order as they will any other. Q. Have you no better method? A. No. sir. By Dr. Conner: _^. I asked you whether the regimental surgeons have reported to you that they had drawn money for this purpose. A. Yes, sir; it has been drawn in a great many places. Q. By regimental sui'geons? A. I did not stop to notice whether they were regimental or brigade. To-day. and at any time since the issuance of that order, the doctors could call for the money; and after that they must show how they expended it. Suppose the doctor had 500 men under his care; 100 are sick, and the doctor is drawing (iO cents for each one of them: then the regular rations issued by the commissary will be for only 400 and the doctor looks out for the other 100. Then the surgeon gives in his 2954 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. report in a return. He may want to draw for 2~) of the 100 the regular army ration and use different parts of that for feeding the whole 100; and in that case his ration return shows for 75 men aud he gets the balance — that is, for the other 75 men— in money. The ration return is in every sense a voucher. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Do I understand that he can draw in lieu of a portion of his rations any other portion he wants to? A. Yes, sir; in this way: The dried-vegetable ration is interchangeable. He can draw beans, pease, rice, and hominy, or one-half of one and the balance of another. Q. You can draw the entire dry ration instead of any one thing? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, one question asked of several doctors and commissaries is as to the fit- ness of the ration issued at the present time for Cuba — a climate such as Cuba. A. I have strong views on that question, sir. There are always people ready to advise things for the ration that are nice to the palate. The present army ration is the result of one hundred years" experience by the ablest men in the Medical and Subsistence Departments. It has heen subjected to the closest scrutiny time aud time again. These people go to the tropical climates, and not finding meat a part of the diet of the natives, conclude it should not be eaten, but that a man in the Tropics should eat mei'elj' a few plantains. They do not stop to think that the native, the man standing there before them, is the prodtict of that food. They should stop to think that these i^eople live on plantains. That is a serious error on their part. It is not because the native does not like meat, but because he is too poor to buy it. It is because they can not afford to buy what we feed to the American soldiers. By Colonel Denby: Q. One answer to that is the English do not issue the same ration in the East. A. I think that is not an answer; I think the English ration is sub.stantially ours. Dr. Conner. I have the English ration here somewhere: we need not mind about that, I have the list of the English ration. The Witness. Is it not substantially ours? Dr. Conner. They isstie less meat in the Tropics. The Witness. My views and my intentions are to ask Congress to alter the ration by adding two or two and a half or three ounces of dried fruit as a laxa- tive. It is also my purpose to ask for a slight increase of sugar and coffee. Adjourned to 10 a. m., December 13. Washington, D. C, December 13, 1S98. General Charles P. Eaoan, recalled: By General Beaver: Q. At the close of your testimony we were coming tip to the question of food for the tropical climate. A. I am preparing a Inll to send to Congress, in which I have recommended that there shall be a slight increase in rice and coffee and an addition of 3 to 21 ounces of dried fruit, biit from all I can understand and learn, I don't think we should change the ration in anj^ other respect. Q. Decrease the amount of carbon-producing food? A. I think not, sir. There is a great loss in the forequarters of the beef. It is pretty nearly ail bone, and it requires knowledge as to how to cut it properly. There was very little left over. BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2955 Q. As to the fatty pork? A. That is optional with the commanding officer. He can regulate the issue of salt or fresh meat in his discretion. Another thing, if we are going to get beef in the tropical climates, or Florida beef, a quarter of a pound will not go near so far as a quarter of a pound of our beef. By General Wilson: .Q. Has it ever occurred to you, the propriety of issuing, as a part of the ration, what we call dried beef, which we use at home sometimes as chipped beef and broil it? A. I don't believe the troops would care for it as a food. I experimented in every conceivable way with the beef— the thermometer there was 120 in the shade— and finally I jerked the beef. The men simply would not eat it at all. Q. They prefer A. They practically fell back on salt meats. The meat was slaughtered at night— 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning— and it was fed for food in the morning. I resorted to jerking it, as the Mexicans do, and I found they would not eat it. They did not care for it. Q. Then I understand that you, as Commissary- General, are still impressed with the belief, and it is your views, that the present meat ration should be continued? A. I do not think that. The President asked me to telegraph to Manila and get the consensus of opinion of the officers there as to what change they wanted in the army ration. They telegraphed back— I am not certain whether it was Gen- eral Merritt or Otis; one or the other— they cabled back that they would not recommend any change in the meat ration, but would like a little dried fruit. Tliey were issuing :} ounces a day. Then General Merriam was asked, and he would not recommend a change. That was in regard to the service in Honolulu. q. In Porto Rico or Cuba, woiald not the fresh fruit, which is so freely grown there, be equally desirable, if not better than the dried fruit? A. I don't think it would be advantageous or proper for the Government to undertake to handle fresh fruit. It. of course, can be purchased out of the com- pany savings. I am going to recommend that savings lie allowed on everything. My theory is, whatever the soldier does not see fit to draw, he shall get the money value in lieu of it. Q. In view of the fact that you were issuing fresh beef, where would be the dif- ficulty in issuing fresh fruit under similar circumstances? A. I don't think it is necessary, and I think the Government ought to handle those delicate things with great caution. We handled cheese at one time, and we found that, considering the small proportion that the soldier got, the loss to the Government was enormous. I think fresh fruit can be readily obtained by the company commanders themselves from company funds. Q. You have met with a great deal of difficulty in the transportation of your supplies, which you told us yesterday. Will you give us your views-I have no doubt you have made a study of it, and you are no doubt aware of the conditions in the British and French armies— as to the propriety of having in the United States a supply corps instead of having the corps as they are now? I believe you understand that in the English army they have a corps which covers the quarter- master's, commissarv, and pay departments. I would like to have your views on our having a similar arrangement to that in the French army; and while the Ger- man Government is not like it, it is similar. A. 1 don't believe one department could fill the requirements of the vast dis- tance and area covered by the troops of the United States. The whole trend of everything to-day is-and for some years back has been-to specialties. I con- sider it takes a man a lifetime, practically, to be either a good quartermaster or good commissary, as he is now. All my experience points to that. I consider that some 2956 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAIJ WITH SI'AI of the departments, notably the Qnartermaster's Department, is top-heavy. Now, by having too many different and diverse duties to perform, which practically splits it into a number of subdivisions, which might be called departments, if yon add anymore to that department, I thinii yon would do so at tlie risk of efficiency. You would overload officers with worlc who would cease to become experts in the various parts of their work; and from reading and discussions and study I believe our system is the very best in the world. I would not favor adding to any depart- ment any more work. Q. The English (xovernment, of course, when you speak of area, covers a much larger and broader area than we do when it takes in India. For their supply department they have what they call their administrative department, which cov- ers quartermaster's, commissary, and pay departments. In the German ariuy they have a paymaster attached to each battalion, and he pays the troops, receiving his funds from an officer not above the rank of major, and he is also oljliged to take charge of all the paper work, to i)ropare the estimates, and submit everything of that kind; but when the materials come in, they come to the different officers of the regiments from the supply department. That is my understanding of it. My whole point in asking the question was to get the views of distinguished soldiers like yourself who have been long in the service. A. I read a great deal and give a great deal of thought to it, and my idea is that our system is tlie best. I should look with great concern upon maiving one depart- ment out of three. I mean adding any more to one department. Q. In the German army the quartermaster's department has charge of trans- portation onlyV A. Yes, sir, Q. And the so-called subsistence department not only f ui-nishes subsistence and camp and garrison equipage, but all transportation comes from them. That seems to be the very point where you find the failing point. A. I think that each department of our present system should be enabled to do its whole work, particularly where that department has a great deal of any kind of work. When I suggested to the Quartermaster's Deparlment, for the purpose of .security and celerity, that it might be wise to turnover to the Subsistence Department two transports, it was said our vessels might go empty. Referring to the system in the British army, I don't think that the English army has ever been fed and supplied as well as ours. I recall very vividly their utter failure in the Crimean campaign — that is the nearest approach to our Santiago campaign. I am of the profound belief that the Quartermaster's Department has too much to do. The Secretary of War this morning has forwarded, with his very hearty and strong approval, a bill for the Subsistence Department to hereafter build and fur- nish and pi'ovide bake ovens, mess equipment, and those things we spoke of yester- day. 1 lay down this proposition in practical explanation of mj' views. I doubt if any one man, acting as Quartermaster-General, can come before this board and answer straight out (luestions as to what he has in his department. It was very hard work for me to get along with one assistant, but after a while I preferred it. as it forced me to keej) a knowledge of where things were. I believe my department, with additions I have asked for in a bill to be submitted to Congress, will have plenty to do if done properly. Q. Then, to sum up your testimony in the (question I have asked you. I under- stand you prefer the organization of your department as it now exists, provided you can have transportation to control this and the present ration? A. Yes. sir; and the furnishing of the means for cooking and means for eating. Q. And that the ration as now issued would be satisfactory in tropical countries, provided the addition could be mad(^ of dried fruits? A. I should think so — at least for a year. If we find there is a real necessity for anything else, then nexi year we can go before Congress and ask a change. I am BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2957 anxious that the law for rations shall continue to Ije, us it has been, a statute law, because my department would be swept otf its feet l)y everybody who wants to furnish many fancy foods, if it were liable to be shifted and chanj^ed (wery day. As I imderstand it, Congress has closed the door on the ration (|uestion, stating what it shall be, and then, on thu other hand, it is left wide open in the discretion of the President co commute when necessary. Q. Can he name any value he deems best for that? A. Yes, sir; but in each case it is on the representation of the actual necessities. By Governor Woodbury: Q. What was the object in Congress fixing the rationV Was it on account of the value, so that there should be only so much issued for the soldier? A. I presume so. Q. Please state whether or not you think it would be advisable to have a fixed quantity of certain articles or whether to leave it to the discretion of the Secre- tary of War to change it as he pleases within certain limits of cost. A. I prefer it should be fixed by Congress with the (lualitication that is in it now— that, in the discretion of the President, the components maybe changed with due reference lo the health of the tro( )ps and economy. That is the statute law now. I would prefer that Congress would make it definite and fix it so that Con- gress alone can make material changes. I believe the interests of the country are best served and the interests of the soldiers in that way. I speak with a good deal of feeling because I have been beset with all sorts of foods, with strong, heavy support behind them. In fact, I declare one firm simply persecuted me to buy food. One well-known Senator (I do not remember his name) proposed it only cost a cent a ration, and I said that amounted to over a million a year, and he seemed surprised. I would make it so that no power in the country could touch that materially, in the interests of the soldier and in the interest of the country. These people that go around the camps and furnish their soups— of course, it is good and they are all willing to make recommendations that they have tasted it and it is nice, but the soldiers do not say they want that in lieu of the ration. By General Beaver: Q. To what extent were the subsistence manual and the manual for army cooks of 1S9G distributed for the information of the volunteer troops? A. We sent them out largely: I would have to look at the records in the office to tell the exact number; everywhere that they were asked for. We distributed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Q. To what extent were your commissary depots supplied with the articles enumerated in Circular No. I. October 1, 1896, which is a circular of the different articles to be kept on hand for sales, as staples, to officers and enlisted men? A. They were abundantly supplied and every requisition filled. I called for special requests for those things. In temporary camps it would be a loss to have them on hand They would not be consumed. They were sent liberally and always promptly filled when rerly placed on transports, and the quartermaster refused to unload them. I had to insist on his unloading them, so that the troops would have them, or prefer charges. Q. Such mistakes are made in such movements. A. But why not correct them when such mistakes are found out? Q. General, is it a matter of law that designates to each department what it shall do? A. It is a matter of law. Q. And you have made a recommendation to Congress for such changes as your experience shows is necessary for your department? A. Yes, sir: the Secretary of War approved it this morning and it has gone forward. 2964 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By Governor Woodbury: Q. If this law should be i^assed, you would be at liberty to order of the Ordnance Department, if they had the plant to make these things — these articles the}' are furnishing now— or of other parties, just as you chose? A. I should want to exercise that privilege; yes, sir. Q. And if they had the plant, there would be no loss to the Government then? A. None at all. If, on the other hand, articles that that plant can produce are not suitable to the men, I would naturally supply the articles most suitable to the men. Q. Why I asked that cjuestion is because the Chief of Ordnance stated that they had a plant all fitted up, and he thought they could work more economically. I thought if they could furnish the articles fast enough, of course you could order from that department. A. I woiild not dispute what the Chief of Ordnance says in regard to cost. I believe as a rule that the Government can not produce anything as cheaply as the technical business man. 1 do not believe we ought to have a transport five min- utes after the necessity is over. When the emergency and necessity is over, I believe we ought to get rid of those things. By General Dodge: Q. The testimony is that certain of these things it was impossible to obtain out- side. If the manufacturers outside knew that you had, for instance, the authority to i)urchase these things, your theory is that they should supply the plants and have them on hand always? A. Yes, sir; and I expect from Pittsburg a complete outfit of aluminum, on account of its lightness and strength, for the soldier. Q. What do you mean by the complete outfit? A. Cups, plates, etc. Q. Can you make aluminum knives and forks? A. Forks and spoons. Q. That would be much lighter? A. Yes, sir. 1 think it would be better, and I believe in bettering things if you can. Q. As I understand, the Secretary of War has approved your views? A. Yes, sir. By General McCook: Q. There were ships with commissary stores in their holds that made trips to Culja and back without unloading. Do you know anything of that? A. I am glad you spoke of that. That comes in line with my idea of transpor- tation. One ship brought back about 11,000 tons of subsistence stores. There were other vessels that came back with rations, some of which were spoiled and some were stolen. Q. Do you know anything about the condition of those stores? A. Many were worthless. Such as we could we retained, and the worthless were condemned. The greater danger than all was that they might have been necessary in Santiago. By General Dodge: Q. Suppose you had charge of those stores and your ship was lying in Santiago and the general commanded that that stuff be landed? A. His orders would be obeyed. If it had been under me, I would have found men if I had to take men all night to unload those stores. Q. Suppose you had control of that ship? A. It generally goes without saying that the orders of the general commanding will be obeyed, but I am informed that the quartermaster stores were taken ofi'. BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2965 Exhibit C. P. E. No. 1.— December 13, 1898. Circular ) War Department, No. 1. ) Office of Commissary-General of Subsistence, Washington, D. C, October 1, 1S90, I. In compliance with paragraphs 1330, Army Regulations, 1895, a,nd 09, Man- ual of the Subsistence Department, the following list of articles to be kept on hand for sales, as staples, to officers and enlisted men. is published for the infor- mation of all concerned: Articles. All articles which are components of the ration; and the fol- lowing: Apples . Apricots Bacon, breakfast . Baking powder . . . Butter - Cheese. Chocolate Coffee, extra. Corn, green Crabs Crackers Flour, family Gelatin Ham, deviled Ham, sugar-cured. Lard Lobster Macaroni Milk Mushrooms Oatmeal Oysters Peaches Pears - Pease. Pigs' feet Pineapples. Preserves, damson . Prunes Salmon Sardines Shrimps Soup Starch, corn . Sugar, white. Sirup Tapioca Tongue, beef SPICES, SEASONINGS, SAUCES, JAMS, JEL- LIES, ETC. Cinnamon Cloves Flavoring extract . Ginger Jam, blackberry. .. Jelly, currant Lime juice Varieties. fCanned (Evaporated Canned In pieces or sliced in cans /American lEdam fPlain. (Vanilla J Java iMocha Canned Canned Four varieties - Canned 10 to 11 pounds Canned Canned Caimed Two varieties Canned fCanned \Evaporated (unpeeled) Canned - /Canned, American -.. tCanncd, French _ (Canned, fresh IPickled Canned Canned Not smaller than TO's. Canned Canned Four varieties, canned or condensed. Cut-loaf Granulated. Powdered Maple Canned Ground . Ground ILemon . . (Vanilla. . Ground . Unit of weight or measure. Can Pound . . Can Pound . . Can Pound - . Pound . . Number Pound . . Pound -- Pound . . Pound . . Can Can Pound . . Pound .. Packet - . Can Pound .. Pound . . Can Pound . . Can Can Pound .. Can Can Pound . . Can Can Can Can Kit Can Can Pound Can Box Can Can or tablet Pound Pound Pound Pound Gallon Pound Can ... Pound ... Pound . - - Bottle. --- Bottle-. - Pound . . . Can or jar Can or jar Bottle.... Kinds or sizes of packages preferred. 3-pound cans; gallon cans. 3 pound cans. Canvased, or 1-pound cans. -i-pound cans. 2-pound cans. Pony cans; 3-pound cans. 1 -pound cartons. Barrels; .sacks. ;J-ounce packets, i-pound cans. 5-pound cans; pails. l-poiiiid cans; ;.'-()oundcans. 1-pound piicka.Lces. 1-pound cans. i cans. ;i-pound cartons; J barrels. I pouiidcans; 2-poundcans. ii-pound cans. ;.'-pound (mckets; 35-pound boxes. 3-pound cans. 3-pound cans. tV cans. 3-pound cans. 15-pound kits. 3-pound cans. 3-pound cans. 1-pound cans; 3-pound cans. i boxes; } boxes. Quart cans; i-ounce pack- ages. l-pound papers. Bai'i'els; .! barrels. Barrels; .V barrels; 1(X)- pound sacks. Barrels; i barrels. > -gallon cans. Pound. 3-pound cans. }-pound tins. J-l)uun(l tins. 3-()uni'e bottles. 3-()niicc bottles. J-ponnil tins. 3-i)(>un(l <-aiis; 1-pound jrtrs. 3-pouiid cans; 1 -pound jars. Quart bottles. 2966 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF AVAK WITH SPAIN. Articles. SPICES, SEASONINGS SAUCES, JAMS, JEL- LIES, ETC.- cont'd. Mustard Nutmegs Oil, olive. Olives Pepper, red. Pickles Salt, table Sauce, cranberry Sauce, table CIGARS, TOBACCO, PIPES, ETC. Cigars .- Pipes, brier- wood Pipestems, Weichsel . Tobacco, chewing — Tobacco, smoking — Varieties. Unit of weight or measure. Kinds or sizes of packages preferred. (Ground Pound (French - | Bottle. 6.5''s to 70's (Cayenne iChile-Colorado Four varieties. Canned Two varieties TOILET SOAPS, KITCH- EN AND LAUNDRY MATERIALS. Soap, toilet — Soap, scouring Soap, laundry Blumg, powdered . Starch, laimdry . . Borax Metal polish Tripoli flour _ TAILORS' MATERIALS. Buttons, trousers' Needles — Four brands.. Four varieties 4-inch -- 1-pound plug - Four varieties Six varieties For wood or paint, two varieties. Two varieties - Paste or powder, two va- rieties. Needle l)ooks with needles. Pins Thread, cotton, white Thread, cotton, black . Thread, linen, white. . Thread, linen, black . . Thread, silk fMetallic, large. ' Metallic, small jNos.ntoO IDaruing STATIONERY. Envelopes, letter, or- dinary. Envelopes, note, ordi- nary. Ink, black Paper, letter, ordi- nary. Paper, note, ordinary Pencils, lead Penholders Pens SUNDRIES. Basins, hand Blacking, shoe Brooms, whisk Brushes, blacking - Brushes Nos. 3fi, 40, and-W.-.. Nos. ms, 4(1, and 50.... Nor. :>0, :!."), and 40 Nos. 30, ;35, and 40.-.. Sizes A, B, C, and D. iGood quality, to match letter paper. Best (luality, to match letter paper. Good ciuality, to match note \).aper. Best (juality, to match note paper. (Good quality iBest quality -- IGood quality IBest quality - (No. 3, American iNo. 3, Ameri(ran Wooden, with rubber holder. (Fine < Coarse — (Stub Brushes, hair XX tin. /Large \Small With or without daubers Daubers — ILai'go , sol id back iSmall, solid back Pound Bottle Bottle or jar Pound - Pound - Jar Pound Can ... Bottle Number Number Number Pound . . Pound .. Cake or pound Cake .'.-pound cans. , Bottles. Quart bottles. Quart lx>ttles or ,iars. 3-ounco bottles. !-pound cans. Pint jars; quart jars; gal- lon jars. 3 to .') pound bags or boxes. 3-pound cans, i-pint bottles. Boxes ; i boxes. Butts. Commercial packages. Pound Box Pound Paper Tin or box. Package . - . No. and dozen No. and dozen Paper Dozen Number Paper . Spool-. Spool- Spool - . Spool. Spool., Number . Number . Number . Number . Bottle ... Quire Quire Quire — Quire Number Number Number Number Number Number 3-ounce boxes. 1-pound packages. 1-pound papers. ;>ounce tins or boxes. 4-ounce packages. Number . Box Number Number Number Number Number Number 3 to 3 ounce bottles. BRIG. GEN. CHARLES P. EAGAN. 2067 Articles. SUNDRIES— continued. Brushes, nail Brushes, tooth Buttons, collar Varieties. Unit of weight or measure. Can openers . . . Chamois skins . Clothes lines. -. Clothespins Bono handle , bristle (Hard ISoft.. _ Double gold plated, with hinge, i Double gold plated, witli- ( out hinge. Combs, coar.se Combs, fine Combs, dressing Combs, pocket- - Handkerchiefs, linen- Handkerchiefs, silk .. Ink, indelible Matches, safety Paper, toilet Razor strops Shoestrings 'i to 2i feet sqiiare . Cottoii fHorn, medium. \Horn, small Horn Rubber Rubber IPine (Medium (White iRed Towels - Toweling , (Porpoise - . . iLinen Linen damask, about ~6 by 50 inches. iNo. 1, about ;i()bv4{)in. No. 2, about ;il by 43 in. rCotton, about 'M by T, . , ) i2 inches. ^'""l Linen, about 34 by ( (13 inches. Wash, cotton, abcmt 12 by 14 inches. I Bleached, about]!) inches wide. Unljleached, about 30 1 inches wide. Number . Number . Number - Numboi- Number Number . Number . Foot Number . Number . Numl)cr . Number . Number Number Number . Numljer Number Number Bottle;... Box Package Number Pair Pair Number Kinds or sizes of packages preferred. Number Numbei' Number Number Number Yard... Yard.... II. A commissary may state on his requisitions the brands which are preferred at his post, and if the cost in any case does not exceed that of the standard approved by the chief commissary, the latter, suli.iect to the restrictions of para- graph 70, Subsistence iManual, may request the purchasing commissary to supply the brand desired. • III. The varieties of any article to be supplied for sale must not be kept on hand at any post in e.xcess of the number for each class, as authorized in the preceding list, and not more than ten varieties of cigars (none costing more than $C. per hundred), eight of toilet soaps, six of pickles or crackers, five of smoking tobacco or soup, will be provided throughout any Department. IV. Articles may lie purchased in such kinds of shipping packages as the distance from the place of purchase to destination and tlie nature of transporta- tion may render advisable for the security of the contents in transit. The cost of packages will be included in the cost of stores. V. Special articles that are not embodied in the above list or can not be procured among the varieties authorized will be provided as "exceptional articles,"' if called for as such. VI. Chief commissaries may authorize the commissaries at posts, under their supervision, to purchase such exceptional articles as can be delivered at such posts without any cost for delivery. VII. In the interest of economy, chief commissaries in authorizing purchases to be made at posts will, as a rule, furnish the post commissaries concerned with a sufficient number of circulars (prepared by manifold process) for distribution to principal dealers in the vicinity of the posts au,000 men — there being no supplies here — for three months; also for 4 medical officers, 4 hospital stewards, and 30 privates of the Hospital Corps. The medical officers, stewards, and privates are for the division hospitals, etc. Very respectfully, A. Hartsuff, Dejnity Stirgeon- General, U. S Army, Chief Surgeon. That the forces should be here in a few days. I have no knowledge of what supplies, if any, they will bring in the way of hospital stewards — the corps will come into the field with a separate command, so for the apiiroving of requisitions for medical supplies for 40,000 men— there being no suj^plies here for them during that month — it was not necessary. Q. The division hospitals were constituted as far back as the 14th of May? A. Yes, sir, Q. But not established until June? A. No, sir, Q, Was there, or would there liave been, any difficulty, think you, in having sufficient supplies — when it was known at Washington that 40,000 trooiJS were likely to be there — medical supplies sent in such (quantity that the wants could have been supplied from the very beginning? A, That is a question for the authorities here to answer. I do not know. I asked that the supplies be sent there in bulk for that force, but they were not sent. Q, They were not sent? A, No, sir; they were not sent. Q. And. as a consequence, the troops were improperly supplied with medicines — inadequately supplied? A. Not fully supplied, and in some cases — not a few — where the troops needed certain few articles; but the supplies were peddled out to them very scantily and I LIEUT. COL. A. HARTSUFF. 2975 very carefully, so as to make them j^o around and keep them running from day to day. Q. Then, as you have already stated, there was no provision made in advance for large bodies of troops? A. None at all. Q. Did these supplies that came to you early — among the supplies were there such things as hospital furniture, beds, etc., or were they entirely medical sup- plies? A. I think in the iirst place — I do not think there was any hospital furniture at all. I have no knowledge of it. Of course my duties were multifarious, and that work was turned over to my assistant, Dr. Mason, and I am not certain as to that, but I think it was mostly medicine and medical supplies. Q. During this time that the regiments were carrying on the hospital organiza- tion, when they had to make requisitions on you for the necessary articles and the medical supplies, did you or did you not approve the requisitions with promptness and readiness, so that they could get what they needed? A. Requisitions were never made. It was not necessary to make requisitions. When troops came into the field, recognizing that the volunteer troops were unfa- miliar with the routine duties recjuired of them, I summoned every medical ofiicer to my tent, and I had a stihool there day after day for several hours each day, instructing all the medical officers then and there as to their duties in the matter of camj) sanitation, reports, etc. Q. You are spealdng now prior to the establishment of the division hospitals, are you? A. I am leading up to that now. They had been directed what to do and what was required of them, etc., at these schools and at the close of this class each med- ical officer responsil)le for a regiment— surgeon of a regiment— was given printed copies of all papers reijuired to be made out by him, all books and records, etc., and a manual of the Medical Department, and in many cases copies of regulations for the making out of requisitions for all the supplies that they needed. I asked that re(iuisitions should be made in order that every officer should be able to keep his records straight and correct, but soon recognized the fact that they were not in a condition to make requisitions. Requisitions were therefore not required. The only re(iuisitions that came to me were simply on slips of paper, perhaps in an envelope, anything at all, and in many cases without the name of the regi- ments to whom the supplies were to be furnished appearing on it. Q. That was during the period —we are not discussing when the volunteers first arrived. A. An open book account was kep^ by the medical purveyor with all the regi- ments. Q. And these supplies were furnished as rapidly to each regiment on those requisitions or little slips of papers as called for? A. Yes, sir. The requisition for supplies were filled when we had the necessary articles to supply them with. The only authority that I exercised with respect to the whole thing— because I rode through the camps as frequently as I could and became personally conversant with the nei'essities and requirements of the differ- ent regiments, and knew that certain regiments were fairly well supplied with certain things and other regiments not so well supplied, I was the better prepared to see to the medical purveyor what should go to certain regiments, etc. All were making requisitions for supplies— those having supplies on hand as well as those who had not. It therefore became necessary to know just what regiments bad supplies on hand and what had not. Q. As a result of that, were the various regiments supplied with such medicines as were needed and in such amounts as were required? A. No, sir; in no case. 2976 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN, Q. That being the case, why was it that the Government did not have medical supplies there for issue? A. That is a question beyond my apprehension. Q. Well, did you insist upon it, as chief medical officer of that command, that medical supplies must be furnished there? A, I did, and communicated with the Surgeon-General, either by letter or tele- gram, I may say almost daily and sometimes more than once a day, and directed the medical supply officer, as you will find by my communications here on that subject, directing him to keep a supply on hand to meet all emergencies. Q. But he did not do it? A. I think he did. I think he made re(iuisitions for them. v^. But he did not keep a sui^ply on hand to meet all emergencies? A. The suiiplies were not furnished him. Q. Was that deficiency consetiuent upon failure to order supplies sent there; was it consequent upon the delay in the transmission of the supplies to that point; was it conse 37 2dl>> INVESTIGATION Ol'^ CONDUC^T OF WAK WITH SPAIN. tion f<«r it. The medical director scratched it out and said 'the regiments can not have tkem.' I understand some have been recently issued, though they were held in the medical supply depot when most needed. The sup:;lies which have been issuet.1 to us I will put uix)n an attached slip. They are as nearly correct as I can figure at this moment. Our men are suffering. Be.sides that which we have bought, we have practically no medicine supplies. We have not a. single surgic !.l instrument. We are in extremity now. If we were ordered out you can well Judge of our condition and ability to do the work required of us. We respect- fully ask that something be done at once to eciuip this regiment with medical and sui-gical supplies." Now, was there any necessity for any regiment, after having been at Chattanooga for two weeks, making such a report as that in reference to the supply of medicines? A. I think I have a communication right here on that subject which will answer that same question. Q. What date was that, please? A. The 2d of June. This is the letter: Headquarters First Army Corps, Dept. of the Gulf, Office op the Chief Surgeon, Camp George H. Tliomaff, CJiickamauga Park, Oa., June 2, 1S9S. The Surgeon-General U. S. Army, Washington, D. C. S[R: I have the honor to inform you that the number of organizations that have arrived in this park for organization and equipment up to date is as follows: Regiments. ■ Infantry - 58 Cavalry , 9 Artillery. 1!) Many of the volunteer organizations came without arms, uniforms, or supplies of any kind. Some of the regiments had a very limited medical supply, having been furnished by their State with a supply for t€n days only, which was nearly gone on their arrival here. A few regiments arrived with a little larger supply. The volunteer regiments are slowly learning the often repeated lessons of economy. Owing to the pressing need for medical supplies on the part of the many regi- ments arriving here daily, and of regiments departing, and the limited supidies on hand, a book account with each regiment had to be opened, and the supplies abso- lutely necessary only were issued. To the regiments leaving here it has been the practice to issue a larger supply — all that could be spared. The demand tor cer- tain articles has been great, and, as all were exhausted, purchases have been made and are being made. Little has been done in the way of organizing, all our energies having been directed to getting organizations into and out of camp and helping them to abso- lute necessities in all the different departments. Until within a few days we have had almost no privates of the Hospital Corps (have now nearly 100), few ambu- lances with team, and as yet have no mounts. The chief quartermaster here has been requested to furnish tentage, means of transportation, and mounts, but the demand has been so great that i-equisitions could not be filled, and the Medical Department has taken its turn. We ai"e now getting quartermaster's supplies much more freely, and it is said all requests on the Quartermaster's Department will soon be filled. I have just directed the acting medical purveyor here to report to me at once the amount of medical supplies received by him and the date of their receipt. As soon as sufficient supplies can be obtained issues will be made regularly, on special requisitions for a three-months' supply. As yet no instruments of any kind LIEUT. (Y)L. A. HARTttUFF. 2979 have been received except ten field cases, old pattern, which many Kuigeons here ol)ject to nsing. I have kept this letter open lor one day hopiny; I would be able U> iniorin you of the dates and amounts or supplies received bere by the acting medical purveyor and of supplies wanting. The purveyor reports to me now that lie is preparing his rei)ort to me, but it is not yet finished. Will send his report as soon as I receive it. V^ery respectfully, A. Hartsuff, Depal/j Sniycou-Gcncral, U. S. Army, Chief Surgeon. A true copy. Deputy Surgeon-Generaf., U. S. Army. Hen; is the only complaint that ever came up to me, and it pertains to the Sixth Ohio, and answers the (question pretty well. I will read the letter, if you please: Camp George H. Thomas, Office of the Chief Surgeon, Chickamauga Park, Ga., June 13, ISDS. The Ad.utant-General,: Sir: Referring to jour L. R. 1147, con)plaint of surgeon Eightli Ohio Infantry, that he is unable to secure certain medical supplies, etc., I have the honor to state as follows: I have no rocollcction of this particular case, and do not at all question th(j cor- rectness of the statement in general. That I may not have approved the reiiuest on the acting me:lical purveyer for medicines is true, but it is also true that in no case have 1 refused to approve any re luest for medicines and medical supiilies on the supply officer, if the articles were on hand, without explaining fully that at least one division hospital of the corps was in full working order, and the articles for which requisitions were made could ])e ol)tained on a])p]icatioii to the division hospital. The First Di\dsion hospital of the First Corps has been eciuipp 'd and in running order for several weeks, and the Third Division hospital of the First Corps was equipped with supplies, etc., as early as the 9th instant. From the date of arrival of the first volunteer regiment at this camp medical supplies have been issued to all regiments without reiiuisition or r. ceipt, and as fully as the limited amount on hand would warrant. A book account was kept with regiments by the medical supply officer, and all requests for medical supplies received immediate attention. An account of stock could not be taken; invoices and receipts could not be made out, and when the Surgeon-General of the Army called on me by telegraph for information as to medical supplies the acting medi- cal purveyor informed me that he had been so busy that he could not let me know what had been received and what was needed. By the 1st of June the great incom- ing riish of i-egiments to this camp was reduced, when I sent out a circular as follows: '• In future medicines and supplies should be issued, so ( ar as possible, on regular blank forms and for three months' supply. Requisitions to be consolidated and drawn by the division surgeons on the medical supply depot. Issues to be made by division surgeons to regiments." Notwithstanding this, little slips of paper continued to come to me from regi- ments, brought by soldiers, in many cases paper having neither date, heading, nor signature, and witli the names of certain drugs written thereon, not the amounts, many of which were not on the supply tables. Issues were still made in the irreg- ular manner named, and in each case was the information repeated that great irregularities must gradually cease, and order, system, and finally organization be established. As already stated, I have no personal recollection of this case. It is the first complaint of any kind that I have heard, and as we are so f;ir advanced in our work now I am sure it will be the last. Very respectfully, A. Hartsuff, Deputij Surgeon-General , U. S. Army, Chief Surgeon. 29 so ISTESTIGATION OF CO>T)UCT r.X WAR WITH SPUN. Now. in no case where reqn^ts were ever sent to him— that I can state with absolute certainty — where the supplies were on hand and could be furnished t« > the regiments, where some other regiment d'd not need them and could delay more than others, that they were not furnished at once, so far a? I know. O. Now. is it not a fact that hypodermic syringes were refused by you to Dr. Martin when asked for? A. It might hare been the case: I do not know. Q. If there were hypodermic syringes in the depot and the regimental surgeon asked for one. would you refuse it? A. Yes. sir. Q. Under what circumstances? A. Because the division hospitals Q. Before the time of the division hospitals? A. Isot unless I was familiar with the facts. Q. If the facts are as I represented them to you— the statement of the First New Hampshire— would it or would it not have been proper to have supplied one to him at that time? A Yes, sir: most essentially. Q. If there was one in the depot and it was refused, where does the responsi- bility lie? A. I can not tell that. Q. If you refused it, it rests with you. does it not? A Certainly. Q. Now. after the establishment or ui)on the establishment of the division hos- pital, how was the persomic-l of the hospital determined— from what sources did the hospital draw its medical supplies? A The personnel of the Hospital Corps— I would say of the hospital— was made up of transfers from the Regular Army. Q. I was not speaking of corps- 1 was speaking of the medical officers. A- By details frc.ni regiments. Q. By details from regiments? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many officers, as a rule, were drawn from each regiment? A. Two. Q. Leaving how many behind? A. One. Q. What was the duty, as you look at it — what was the duty of the one left behind? A To look after the interests of the regiment, to attend to sick call, and to attend all minor cases of sickfless. Q. Anything else? A. Certainly: all camp hygiene— everything that pertained to the health of the command. Q. These duties devolved on him? A. Prior to the establishment of the di%-ision hospitals these si)ecial duti. s devolved upon hirn — npon the chief surgeon, with his assistants. Q. Now. in your case: was sanitation attended to properly? A. It was not. Q, Was the camp foul? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was any representation made to you officially as chief surgeon through the gutordinate officers that such a condition of things did exist? A Very few. Q. Did you yourseK observe the condition? A. Idid. ' LIEUT. COL. A. HARTSUFF. 2981 Q. What did you do upon observiug the condition of affairs? A. I made a report to General Brooke. Q. With or without recommendations? A. With recommendations in many cases. Q. Your recommendations were to what effect, please? A. One case that I remember was that a brigade — a First Corps regiment and two division regiments were brigaded together and the camp was outrageously i'oul— outrageously foul. I had reported it personally to General Brooke on repeated occasions. I was at General Brooke's headquarters — most of my reports were made personally, then it became necessary for me to report it in writing — and I stated that it was an imperative necessity that the camp be broken up at once and a new camp formed. By Gener;il Dodge: Q. Who was the commander of that brigade? A. It was in the First Corps, and made uj) of two Arkansas regiments anil one Mississippi regiment — I think it was the Second Division. Q. Who was the commander of the division? A. General Wade. Q. What recommendations did you make in connection with this unsatisfactory condition? A. If you will i)ermit me, I will refer to my letter, which I have here, on that subject, making recommendations, which is as follows: Camp George H. Thomas, Office of Chief Surgeon, Chickmnauga Park, Ga., July 11, 1S9S. Tlie Adjutant-General. Sir: I have just made a partial inspection of the Second Division, Third Corps, and find the sanitary conditions in many respects bad. Especially is that the case in the First Mississippi and First and Second Arkansas. The camps of the regi- ments named are thoroughly unsanitary. There are large numbers of typhoid- fever cases in each regiment. I recommend an immediate change of camp. Very i-espectfully, A. Hartsuff, Deputy Siityeon-Geiicral, U. S. Army, Chief Surqetni. By Dr. Conner: Q. What action was taken upon this report of yours? A. The First Mississippi was moved. The other two regiments remained in tlie camp in a foul and bad condition. Q. Was that foul and bad condition maintained during the i-est of the time? A. Up to the time that I left there. Q. Do you know of any instance in which your recommendations were disre- garded by the commanding general? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you instance some of them, so that we may know what the character of your recommendations were? A. Here is one that was made pretty late, however, namely, on July 14, whiih is as follows: Camp George H. Thomas, Office of Chief Surgeon, Chickainauga Park, Ga.. July 1//, 1S9S. The Adjutant-General, Camp George H. Tliouias, Ga. Sir: I have the honor to inform you that in the organization and general man- agement of division hospitals there are great and seemingly insurmountable ditti- culties, resulting sometimes most injuriously to patients, regimental organiza- tions, officers, and the Government at large. 21>82 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Division hospitals are established and equipped in each division for 200 patients Officers, stewards, and hospital-corps privates — somevi'hat over 100 — are provided to care for the patients and conduct the hospital. The amount of Government Ijroperty — quartermaster's, ordnance, and medical — provided for such an establish- ment is large and the property resxMjnsibility great. Few medical officers are by nature ar habit qualified to organize and manage such an oi'ganization and prop- erly care for the property, etc. During my experience in this camp — for nearly three months— I have seen many sad failures. Doubtless one of the unfortunate conditions has been the frequent changes in the personnel of the hospital. Not only has the surgeon in charge of the hospital been suddenly relieved, but other medical officers and hospital stewards (the latter often in charge of the books and records) have been suddenly relieved — owing, perhaps, to the movement of their regiment — and their places had to be supplied by officers and men in no way familiar with their new duties. Now that a hospital corps is organized, much of the confusion of the i)ast should be corrected. Acting hospital stewards shoiild be detailed, and clerks, ward- masters, cooks, and all other men necessary to conducting the hospital piit in their proper places and never changed. When it is found desirable to temporarily detach hospital-corjps men from the division hospital the attendants should be taken, but the office clerks, property clerk, wardmasters, cooks, etc., above men- tioned, should never be disturbed, and under no circumstances should any papers, records, or books, which constitute a part of the records of the hospital, be even temporarilj' removed from the hospital. Regimental medical officers and regimental-hospital stewards must be with their regiments when they move, so they are generally with the division hospitals for a short time only. That is unfortunate, but unavoidable. There should be some means, however, by which the surgeon in charge would be more jtermanent, and I know of no way of effecting that except by appointing a brigade surgeon to that position and making him permanently the surgeon in charge of the division hospital. Thus the surgeon in charge, the office clerks, and propertj^ clerk, the wai'dmastei's, cooks, etc., would never be changed, even though the force of the hosijital corps should be increased or diminished to any extent, and the records, reports, and papers always be made promptly, the patients cared for more efficiently. Government property saved from damage or utter ruin, and waste of all kinds prevented or largely reduced. Very respectfully, A. Hartsuff, Deputy Surgeon-General, U. S. A. , Chief Surgeon. True copy: A. Hartsuff, Deputy Surgeon-General, U. S. A., Chief Surgeon. And I insisted upon, in one or two communications to the general commanding, that troops had been in camp too long and that they ought to be started out on the road in some direction. Q. Were these recommendations acted upon? A. When I frequently rode through the camp and found nuisances — outrageous nuisances — in the way of the sale by hucksters, etc., I personally reported it to General Brooke, General Brooke, in many cases, would call one of his aides and send him out to investigate the matter, and in a number of instances there was a permanent and methodical disposition made of that nuisance. Q. The nuisances remained, notwithstanding yoiir orders? A. They remained up to the day I left the park — that is, up to the time I left. Q. What day did you leave? A. The 37th of July; I think it was that date. LIEUT. (JOL. A. HARTSUFF. 2983 Q. Were these reports of yotirs and complaints of yours brought directly to the notice of the Surgeon-General? A. I had sent copies of these. Q. Of these? A. Yes. sir; a great many of them; oral reports, of course, I did not. Q. Was he duly informed of the fact that your recommendations failed? A. I communicated with the Surgeon-General in a certain way on several sub- jects and said that the recommendations were not considered. Q. Practically, then, all the recommendations that you made were simply i)aper manifestoes? A. In most cases; yes, sir. Q. In fact, your protest was disregarded? A. In a great many cases that was correct. Q. Was there any officer, from the colonel of the regiment down, against whom charges were preferred on account of gross violation of sanitary rules? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Was it not proper that such action should have been taken by somebody with somebody? A. That remained with the commanding general. Q. The responsibility, then, of the sanitation of that camp, after it had been passed from one hand to another, finally rested with the commanding general? A. The Medical Department could only go up to a certain point— calling atten- tion to the condition of things as they were, and then it rested with parties higher up and beyond the Medical Department. Q. On those parties above the Medical Department; on whom? A. Of the line officers. Q. P)ut ultimately the responsibility rested where? A. The responsibility for the whole camp rested with the general commanding. Q. Therefore the observance of ordinary sanitary rules at the time of the occu- pancy of the camp was consequent upon the decision of the commanding general? A. The sanitary condition of the camp rested with the commanding general. By General Dodge: Q. Do you know whether the commanding general sent orders to the troops? A. I know he did. By Dr. Conner: Q. Do yoti know whether those orders sent were obeyed or not? A. I know they were not, because if they had been obeyed the evils would not exist. By General Dodge: Q. They were not eradicated? A. No, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. There seems to be general complaints, then, in regard to the issuance of orders? A. I know that these orders were issued orally, and in some cases written to the different men on the part of General Brooke; but the conditions remained the same and there was no material change. There are copies of sanitary reports here— there are copies of orders, too, I think, written by me and issued by Gen- eral Brooke— sanitary orders calling the attention of all the different regiments to the necessity and particularizing throughout the whole camp— the necessity of camp hygiene. Q. I , after the order was issued and that order is not obeyed, of what value is that order? 2984 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Of course, nothing: but the Medical Department could not go beyond. Dr. Conner. I know that. I am not asking any questions in regard to the powers of the Medical Department. By General Dodge: Q. You have acknowledged that this order was issued by General Brooke to the commanding officer of the division. It was not obeyed. Did you then notify General Brooke? A. Almost daily— every few days, personally— I was living with General Brooke and notified him continually. By Dr. Conner: Q. Did you or did you not, from the beginning, protest against the occupancy of Chickamauga Park? A. I did not. Q. Did you regard it as a proper camp site? A. I did and do. Q. In what way are you going to dispose properly of the excreta? A. Put it into holes, where we put it. I would not occupy Chickamauga Camp for any length of time. Q. For how long a time, then, as a maximum, would you favor the occupancy of a camp at Chickamauga? A. There was space enough in Chickamauga to move camps, as I have recom- mended over and over again, so it was not necessary to occupy one camp more than two or three weeks and then move the regiments out of the camp, if possible, as I have recommended here, and then have the troops return in a few days to a new camp. Q. That was another one of the recommendations of yours that was not regarded? A. I went into the country myself around there, and found out where camps could be located— on Lookout Mountain— and found plenty of places with a plen- tiful supply of water, etc., and recommended that the camps should be sent there, because I had asked the authorities who owned the property and they gave me permission. Q. Throughout a large part of Chickamauga, is it possible to dig proper sinks? A. Throughout a large part of it sinks could not be tlug at all. Q. I speak now of that part of the park which is occupied. A. A good many of the camps that were located ought not to have been located where they were at all because of the difficulty of digging sinks, etc. Q. Did you protest against the occupancy of those points which you regarded as improper? A. In no case was a medical officer, at the time the troops were put into camp- in no case was I or any medical officer consulted as to the special location where troops were located. When troops went into camp in some cases a protest was made as to the location of that regiment. Q. And it met with the usual results of protests from the medical department there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, as respects the supply depot at Lytle, were any of the reports— sys- tematic reports— made to you of the amount of stores in that depot? A. No; for the reason— I have the reports right here, a copy of the letter to the Surgeon-General, and, I think, the commanding officer— for the reason that Dr. Comegys, when he arrived there, was totally inexperienced in the kind of busi- ness which was required of him. He had no assistants whatever, excepting men from volunteer regiments, perfectly green, as he was himself. The si ores came and were put in there, but it took a good wliile to open boxes of medicines after LIEUT. COL. .A. HARTSUPF. 2985 they arrived there. Before they were opened, before they were arranged, issues had to be made: so that with these green men there from the beginning it was con- fusion confounded all the way along. Dr. Comegys was directed to report to me freplips upon a piece of paper and envelope. Q. As I understand you to saj-. you disapproved those requisitions only when you thought that it was necessary, when you thought the medicine should be dis- tributed in some other way? A. Yes, sir. Q. If medicine was present? A. Yes, sir. Q. The requisitions were not turned down for any other roasoTi? A. By no means. The refjuisitions were approved and the medicine supplied when it was on hand. Q. Here is a statement that when a requisition was made on the 2d of July — when a large number of articles were required — that was testified to us by Maior Jenne in reply to the following (juestions: "Q. Do you think of auything you would like to say in connection with lliis hospital besides what you have said? 2!)1)8 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. "A. I think I should, in .justice to myself and those who were connected with the institution, refer again to the matter of requisitions, and call your attention to reiiuisitions and their disposal. Here is a requisition [producing papers] . These are all sitecial requisitions of July i). Here is a special requisition of the 2d, iii which we ask for some things fur the kitchen— iron kettles, large tripod, and some chains, etc., none of which were on hand. It was approved by everybody who should approve. They were not on hand. " Q. How do you know they were not on hand? "A. We went to the medical purveyor, who said they were not here. He did not have any. '• Q. What annotations are made on the border? "A. 'Approved by all; none on hand.' The next requisition— July 4, 20 arti- cles— it is noted on the m;irgin 'Approved by Major Bradbury, Major Schooler, Major Hoff ; " and further annotation is made, ' Ptejected by Colonel Hartsuff ,' because such indorsement should have been made on the back." Q. Is it true? A. No. Q. * • A. Well, I wish to say further that Major Huljbard presented thisrequisition in person to Colonel Hartsutf, who could easily have handed it back to him and asked him to write him the name of the hospital there, or he could have written it himself, because he knew perfectly well what hospital it was, I think — could have been no doubt at all what hospital was meant. "Q. What did he say to Major Hubbard on that occasion, when he carried the re(|uisition in? Did he hand him back the requisition at that time? "A. He handed him back the requisition."' What do you know about this case? A. I remember the case — I remember it. Major Hubbard's requisitions had been frequently brought in — they had been approved. I had rather specially instructed Major Hubbard, because he was an active, bright fellow and I had tried to get him to make requisitions carefully and correctly, and in this particular case it was made out very well indeed, an line to supply the First Corps first before the Third Corps was supplied, and tho First Corps received in some cases an excess of supplies— supplies that had been issued to it up to the maximum, and the maximum at that time was liberal. They had sent to me then for an approval of an excess of that, and I did not approve it. feeling that these supplies ought to go to the Third Corps; they were needed there; but my disapproval was overruled. Q. Overruled by whom? A. By the commanding officer, General Brooke, and the purveyor was instructed to furnish the goods. Q. And in that way you deprived other hospitals of their proportion? A. Yes. Q. As I understand you to say, you established a school of instruction for the surgeons? 3002 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I did. Q. How long did that continue? A. The school was established at the coining into the camp of the different regiments. As soon as they got into camp and got straightened out at all, all the general surgeons responsible and as many others as could be spared were directed by me to report to me at my tent: and they came in great numbers each day, both the regulars and the volunteers, many of them being young men and not liaving had any experience, and I occupied an hour and perhaps two hours each day in going ovei; the subject of camp hj^giene, of. clerical work, of the duties that belonged to a medical officer in the field, explaining all the points to them and asked them if they had any questions to ask, and told them, in closing, when they did not have any questions to ask, " You will find plenty of difficulties when you get fo your regiments in making out reports to me, etc.. and when you experience these come to me freely and I will help you out. " Many of them did so, and many of them did not. Q. What proportion of your supplies were secured from the Red Cross and other charitable associations while you were there? A. Not any of my supplies. A good many supplies were supplied by the Red Cross. They came in there, and I received them and helped to get them estab- lished. I went to General Brooke to help get them established, getting him to permit them to put their supplies in and working in harmony with the Red Cross all the time, ])ut what they took there I can not tell. Q. Why was it you could not tell— the Government could not supply? ' A. The Government could and did supply in many cases; but, on the other hand, there were a great many things that the Government did not supply. Q. And the whole thing was brought to a focus at once? A. The Government was unprepared for such a condition of things. Many of the little things that the Red Cross— luxuries and things of that sort, which were not supplied by the Medical Department. 1 was very glad to have the Red Cross supply. Many of the things that were reported to have been, and were not, supplied by the Medical Department ought to have been ready and could have been supplied. When I went down there, however, anticipating that the division hospital would be established and that there would be required for the sick such things as ice, milk, and various things of that kind, I telegraphed to the Surgeon- General that we wanted a quantity of money to meet these conditions. He sent over $100 to me by dispatch at once, and I devoted this money to the purchase of supplies that we needed. By Dr. Conner: Q. How ample a supply of milk and ice did you have there? A. From the Medical Department? Q. No matter where it came from; how much did the Government furnish? A. Each division hospital was authorized to buy what they pleased. There were in some division hospitals 10 to 20 gallons of milk and 200 or :J00 pound^s of ice. That was before a large number became sick — before there were many typhoid-fever cases. Q. Was there an ample supply of milk and ice at all times? A. If there was not, there was no reason why there should not have been, so far as I know. Q. Was there any scarcity at any time while you were there? A. That depends— I can not tell; I was not familiar with the details of all the division hospitals; I know in some cases they were pretty liberally supplied and I know in some cases they v\'ere not. Q. Was there furnished by the Government a sufficient amount of necessary supplies to the reall}' sick? LIEUT. COL. A. HARTSUFF. 3003 A. I do not know. Q. Have you any idea? A. If it was not it could have been furnished. Q. Was it furnished, as far as you know? A. I said just now that I do not know as to the different division hospitals. Q. But you have an impression. A. I know that milk and ice were pretty largely supplied. I know that in the course of time and afterwards— that after the ice and milk commenced to be pur- chased, then typhoid fever was manifest; also that then it became necessary to have larger and still larger (iuantities— then the Red Cross came in and supplied largely milk and ice. Q. In your judgment how much of a percentage of the ill health of that com- mand was due to drinking and vice, favored by the conditions existing at Lytle or Chickamauga? A. I can not say as to the percentage; there was a good deal of illness when the weather was considered. The drills were had early in the morning; the men received almost nothing in some cases in the way of sustenance; they had no breakfast and went out to drill on an empty stomach. After a long drill they became exhausted, and being exhausted from the long drill rushed over to the canteen and drank largely of beer, which paralyzed the stomachs of most of them, and not only did they go to the canteens to drink the beer, but they ate whatever it was possible to obtain from the many hucksters who visited the camp. The presence of these hucksters I protested against continuously, and I endeavored as far as possible to caution the men frequently to refrain from eating any of the fruits furnished by these hucksters on an empty stomach By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you object to their drilling before breakfast? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was your objection sustained or overruled? A. In the course of a week, I think, the drills were reduced in length of time and made later. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was any effort made to protect the men against conditions existing in that town of Lytle to preserve their health? A. No. I have said here that I have reported frequently it was a nuisance and a menace to the camp. Ever since the Chickamaiiga camp was established the men were to a certain extent making themselves ill through the articles wliich were taken from the hucksters. Q. And no efforts made to protect the men against these conditions? A. Well, I can not tell; I do not know. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did Colonel Denby take up the matter of disinfectants with you when you were examined before him? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Seston: Q. The universal excuse was that they could not get medicines because they were retained for the First Corps. I should judge from the evidence that they were several weeks in getting supplied. Do you know the time when the First Corps were finally supplied? A. Not until just before General Brooke moved out of there. The First Corps was completed in its organization about the 21st of July. - Q. Why could not supplies have been issued for that corps independently of the 3004 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP WAR WITH SPAIN. hospitals that were there? They seem to have absorbed all the Kupplies that came. A. Well, the hospitals constituted a part of that corps. Q. Those that were in the hospit;tl coiald not be moved? A. No, sir: that was one of the difficulties in the division hospital. "When the divisions were moved out suddenly there would have been no provisions made at all. We had to run around and do the best we could to get the supplies for those who removed, and that caused a great deal of work to supply that division. I had an interview with Colonel Iloff almost every day, and it was by earnest consulta- tion with Colonel Hoff and his officers that I succeeded in having the camp remain in statu quo. I made many requisitions on the commanding general to leave at least one clerk who was familiar with the papers and three acting hospital stew- ards and one or two other men to take control of affairs. Q. Why was it not just as easy to supply that camp with medical supplies as it was with commissary supplies? A. I was asking for supplies in large quantities, and I got down to asking for them in smaller quantities. I suppose that the medical authorities in the East, at Washington, were issuing all the supplies that they could get hold of in getting supplies to Tampa and finally to Cuba. I tried to be patient down there, waiting in anticipation of supplies being sent there as soon as possible. Q. Thoy were taldng supplies at Tampa and Camp Thomas to the First Army Corps and the troops were being moved there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, why was it they could not just as well have secured medicine as com- missary supplies? A. If you want to ask me that question, and can give me the authority, I would say there was no reason. It seems to me that tliere were supplies in Cincinnati and the various cities to put them there, but I do not know; I can not go beyond a certain point. By Dr. Conner: Q. Did you ask to be relieved from service there? A. I did. By General Dodge: Q. You stated in your testimony, I think, that the medical force that came with the volunteers were inexperienced. Now, when you left there, which was abotit July 20 A. About July 2?. Q. Were those medical officers fully competent, reasonably experienced, and efficient? A. Lots of them were doing well on the ground, and were material, who had been very inefficient when in the First Division hospital. Paralyzed as they were when I took charge of the division hospital to oversee the duties there, I found that some of the men did their work well — that is, some of those men who had been inefficient. (^. I speak not only with reference to a few of the men there, but were the larger percentage of them efficient, and were they working in such a way that they would become efficient with a little more experience? A. Oh, yes, sir: they were working into it nicely, but there were a great many men that ought to have been weeded out. Of course it took a little time to dis- cover these cases. Q. But suppose you found them inefficient after they had had plentj' of time to have become efficient, you weeded them out? A. No, sir; I did not. Q. You relieved them, then? A. Certainly; they were relieved from the division hospitals. LIEUT. COL. A. HARTSUFF. 3005 Q. Those medical forces coming there with so much inexperieuce, how did you expect with that condition of affairs, who had charge of the sanitary affairs of that cam.p, to have a sanitary condition of things existing? A. These same surgeons were responsible for that. I did not believe that they could have had a perfect sanitary condition by any means, but hoped to have one soon. Q. Taking their experience into consideration, did they liave a reasonable sani- ' ary idea of the necessary sanitation of a camp of that kind? A. In a good many cases they had. In a good many cases they had not. They were absolutely worthless. Q. Why is a camp that is commanded in its corps and most of its brigade com- manders with officers of the Regular Army and officers of military education — now, then, why was it that with those experienced officers with those divisions and I hose brigades, why was not the sanitary condition there in fairly such a condition as you recommended and such as you received orders yourself to have? Did they not have that order of the Surgeon- General specifying that the conditions of such a camp should be in good order? A. Yes, sir; also an order from General Brooke, showing just what ought to be dime, and I myself recited those things in many cases to the colonel (Colonel Huidekoper) as to the great importance of camp hygiene, and that when the time would come for the regiments going into camp that they should dig their own sinks and that the condition of the camp generally should be properly hygiened. Q. Do you think, taking a volunteer force of that character, do you think it is possible under any conditions, and taking into consideration the inefficiency of the officers, to enforce proper sanitary regulations in a camp of that kind — that is, a camp of about 60,000 men? A. Well, it seems to me — it seemed to me— that it was almost impossible to get these men up to the proper status to appreciate the importance of sanitary hygiene. Q. Is not a soldier instructed to obey orders? A. Yes, sir; to a large extent. The volunteer soldiers did not learn the great idea that a soldier should obey orders strictly. (^. You were in the last civil war? A. From the beginning to the end. Q. Did you see many cases of typhoid fever there? A. I saw many cases of typhoid fever there, and went through that sickness myself. By Dr. Conner: Q. When was the order issued by General Brooke placing the division hospitals under his own control — in other words, taking the control away from the division hospitals? General Dodge. The order was July 30. Dr. Conner. So late as that? Q. And before that time they were under the command of the division officers? A. Yes, sir. By General Dodge: Q. Do you remember that order? A. I do not. (^. It seems to have been issued after a consultation while you were there. It was issued on the 20th. Do you remember any such order? A. I do not. Q. That order taking from the commanding general of divisions authority over the division surgeons of their division hospitals and placing it with the Medical Department? A. Why, yes; I remember it. It had almost gone out of my mind. 3006 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Yon think that was proper? A. No, sir; but it seems to iiie that the commanding general commanded what- ever was in his division or corps. I understood always that the division com- mander commanded the division hospital. By Colonel Sexton: Q. And that was that the commander in charge of the division hospital reported to the division commander; or would he have to make a report to h:"m? A. I think he would report to the division commander. I supposed that the division commander would properly have control of the whole division. By General Dodge: Q. That is so. A. Yes. I remember a case occurred there where the (luestion was raised as to whom they should report and who had authority, and so far as I understood the general commanding had the authority over his men; and if the division hospital was in his command he had command of that also. Q. Of the division hospital? A. That I understood to be the case. Q. And it was under the direction of the chief surgeons of the corps? A. Yes, sir. Q. Among them yourself? A. There were a good many difficulties about the organization of division hos- pitals — the (question of the ambulances, for instance; the ambulances were together in all conditions. The whole erection of the division hospitals, in my opinion, was radically wrong. By Dr. Conner: Q. Could you not have corrected it? A. No, sir; the taking of the forces from the regiments and the depleting of the regiments to build up division hospitals is all wrong: the locating of the ambu- lances and separating of the ambulances in what is called the ambulance corps; these ambulances in some localities could be reached only by special applications sent there through an orderly. The management of the division hospitals, the detail of the surgeons from the regimental to the division hospitals was all wrong. I reported it all to -General Brooke as being all wrong, and that no division hos- pital could run successfully any regimental hospital under those circumstances. By General Dodge: Q. Under whose advice was that order issued? A. These orders were generall}^ issued from Washington. Q. Answer the question; from the Surgeon- General? A. The Adjutant-General. (j. What order was it that you particularly refer to? A. The order some time ago establishing division hosintals. Q. You have that order; that is the one, is it, showing what should be left with the regiments and what with the hospitals? A. Yes, sir. Q. In your opinion, was that a mistake? A. It was radically wrong, as without that one order I think we would have gotten throiigh in a fair way and in pretty gocd condition. Q. Well, did you tell the Surgeon-General that that was a mistake? A. I notified General Brooke; I made a report to General Brooke. Q. Do you know whether General Brooke made a representation to the Surgeon- General? A. I do not. LIEUT. COL. A. HARTSUFF. 3007 Q. Don't you think it was your duty to have notified the Surgeon- General? A. Just at that time, I do not know. Q. But if he had been advised he could have revoked that order? A. It was in process of trial, and I did not feel quite confident to ask the question. Q. That is, you wanted to try it to see if it did not have a good effect? A. Yes, sir; but the more I saw of it the more I was convinced that it was radically wrong. Q. Did you at any time communicate with the Surgeon- G-eneral in reference to it? A. I have t(jld the Surgeon-General. Q. Before you left that camp? A. I don't remember whether I reported on it or not. Q. But it has been changed? A. Yes; I know it has been changed. C^. If I have got your testimony right, that is. that if you had had the authority you could have selected medical officers in that camp who could have prevented many of the troubles that did exist there? A. I think so. Q. Well, did you not have the authority; could you not obtain that authority from General Brooke? A. All these officers, like mj^self, were assigned — General Brooke personally applied for me; everyone else that was assigned there was assigned from Washing- ton; all the surgeons outside of the regimental surgeons were assigned from Washington. Q. Coiild not General Brooke, as corps commander — could he not have changed this? A. He might have assumed the authority to do so. Q. Did he not really have authority to do it — there was no one in that camp he could not command? A. I do not know. Q. Were they not assigned to him, so that he could exercise his authority to assign them to i)laces he wanted tiiem? A. As I understand it, they were assigned to those places direct from Wash- ington. Q. Did you suggest to General Brooke the making of changes in these matters? A. I reported to General Brooke the inefficiency of certain individuals and talked with him as to the misfortune of these men being platted there, and con- tinued to do so until the time that he went away, and said that I did not want to measure a man up ciuickly, as it took a long time to discover this condition of things. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Mr. President, we have testimony showing that these surgeons were ordered to report to the corps head(]uarters for assignment to duty. General Dodge. We have evidence to show that it was not so. My understand- ing was that they were assigned from Washington. Colonel Sexton. We also have evidence that a brigade surgeon objected to being assigned to a ward because he was a brigade surgeon. By General Dodge: Q. The surgeons all practiced? A. There were so many corps surgeons appointed— they were assigned. I am sure, by order from Washington to the corps. Q. And the division surgeons, they were assigned by the chief surgeons to their respective divisions? A. They were assigned to certain corps. 3()0?5 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Were any of these surgeons taken and sent to hospitals on your recom- mendation? A. They were taken on my recommendation in certain cases. Q. So that really the surgeons there were subject to the orders of yourself, through the commanding general. A. I had the selection of some of the surgeons in charge of the division hos- pitals, and I made selections, some of which turned out beautifully. Q. You have testified here to the difiBculty of obtaining supplies at times. Were those short supplies, in your opinion, of such a nature that they affected the sickness there in that camp, or the deaths in if? A. There was a misapprehension, it seems to me, on the part of the surgeons in general there as to their duties, very largely, indeed, and I tried to cure that so far as possible, and explained to them that they were there to prevent sickness, and that if they would take hold of their dutie.s properly they could prevent sick- ness, and therefore the necessity for a large supply of medicine, as many of the men were not nearly as sick as they wished to make out, and that by taking proper sanitary measures and by giving close and early attention to the sanitary condition of the camp and men— seeing that they were fed and properly exercised— it would prevent a large amount uf sickness; and, according to my experience, the longer I remained there the more I found out about these things. I think the last lot of medicine was better and that there was altogether too much used, but that there seemed to be a disposition on thepa,rtof the officers there in camp that they were going to cure all the convalescents by greater supplies of medicine. By Colonel Denby: Q. Now, Doctor, in relation to this (!)rder. No. 116, you are aware that it is the 60-cent ration order. Did you understand that it would apply to any sick in quarters, sick in regimental hospitals, or the sick in the division hospitals: that is, did you consider that a regimental surgeon could draw that 60 cents for any man sick in quarters? A. They have done so right along. Q. So that any man sick in ciuarters did not mean sick in the hospital? A. If he is sick in quarters, not sick enough to be put in the hospital, no. Q. I mean that a sick man needs a different diet from the army ration? A. If he is sick in the hospital, yes; if in (quarters, no. Q. Well, the Commissary-General testified here, and so made in his report, that an order was issued providing that any surgeon, regimental or other, could draw the money and make the returns on that 60-cent ration for any man sick in quar- ters, and that all it recjuired was that the doctor should state that he was unfit for duty? A. Those sick in the hospital have drawn it right along, but not in quarters. Q. Is it not your experience, as a surgeon, that a good deal of this sickness comes from the fact that men sick in quarters need a different diet from the army ration that they could not eat? A. YeSj sir; in a good many cases a little change of diet would cure some things. Q. Why has not the Medical Department made a provision of that kind? That is one of the great troubles we have met with — with a man not sick enough to go to the hospital; but there was no process by which he could receive the food he ought to have had. A. If he is sick enough in (luarters to recjuire a different diet, he ought not to be in quarters, because he should be sent to the hospital if he wants to get a differ- ent diet Q. If you VTiped out the regimental hospital and you would not receive him in a division hospital, what was he to do? A. Some of these cases I speak of, they were to go on duty. LIEUT. COL. A. HARTSUFF. 3009 Q. A great many of these men may have had diarrhea and some diseases of that sort, which necessitated a different diet? A. If they have to liave a different diet, the (luicker they go into the hospital the better. Q. Take the army that came from Santiago, every man reijuired a different diet, and yon conki not ptit every man in the hospital? A. They ought to have been in the hospital, and they would have gotten well a good deal cjuicker, probably, if they had been there. By Dr. Conner: Q. What was the reason of the old arrangement that medical storekeepers, who were business men, and that medical inspectors were done away with? A. That, sir, is something that I don't know; it is a thing that I do not know; it should liave been avoided against. Q. Avoided against? A. Yes, sir; from being done away with. Q. Would it or would it not, in your judgment, be wise if businessmen had been connected with the shipping department and received all thesuiiplies,and medical inspectors had been appointed whose sole duty it would have been to look after the conditions that existed there? A. I think we ought to have had a competent man there, and that we ought to have had all that was needed. By General Dodge: Q. Do you think it is necessary for the sanitary regulations and for the health of the soldiers that they should have floors to the hospital tents, if they have cots? A. If they have cots, floors are not absolutely necessary, particularly where we were, and especially during the summer. The ground under the tents was abso- lutely dry; there had been no rain for weeks and I may say for mouths, and all the men could lie on the ground, as I did myself. There was no difficulty whatever; no rains there at all, and a man is not going to be in any danger by lying on the ground, even for months, in such a climate, and there was no great danger at all. By General McCook: Q. Have you any memory of a Major Martin— lie was surgeon of the Second Brigade— have you any knowledge that he had been summoned to your head- quarters? A. I have. Q. Who summoned him there? A. 1 did. Q. What did you summon him for? A. Some time in July General Boynton reported to me— that was the time the (luestion was being raised as to whether typhoid fever was becoming prevalent or not, and I was considering the (piestion as carefully as I could, trying to get information in regard to it— that it had been generally reported to him in Chatta- nooga, being circulated in the hotel and all around it, that typhoid fever was very prevalent in the camp in an alarming manner, and that the people in Chattanooga had asked him if he was aware of it and told him that it was serious, and so forth, and that it was existing here and there very largely. Now, when General Boynton told me about it I wanted to know if it was true. I had just at that time got a report from the doctors of the number of cases in camp— 92, as I have just stated— and I wanted to know if it was a fact. Up to that time I had never seen Dr. Martin. I therefore sent for Dr. Martin and asked him what evidence he had that there was (he was in the Second Division, I think, of the First Corps) typhoid fever existing there in an alarming state, as I wanted to get at the facts of the case. I said to him, 7833 — VOL. <) 39 3010 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. " Giveme what informatian you have on tlie subject,'" and he gave me a lot of infor- mation. ' ' Now,"' I said to liim, • ' Doctor, I am going to ask these men all about this thing. I have got my reports and statements and I want you to sustain what you have said here, or if you can not sustain the statements that you have made, you have made false reports all over the camp " — and up to that time we had no typhoid fever to speak of. I said, '' Doctor, either sustain this thing or else, if you can not sustain it, retract your statement fully, and if you won't do one thing or the other you will take the consequences." Q. At that time do you know how many cases of typhoid fever were in the Leiter flospital? A. I have seen a great many cases, quite a great many cases. I do not remember how many, but still the scientists in this Second Division were not convinced — the scientists were working vigorously over this same question as to whether the disease v>'as a malarial or typhoid fever, and at that time it was not definitely known whether it was malarial or typhoid. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was any microscopic examination made which determined the presence or absence of malarial feverV A. It was so reported to me in the Second Division that malarial fever was pre- valent. Q. And did they report in the majority of these cases that it was malarial fever"? A. In many cases. Q. But did not subsequent conditions show that it was typhoid that was preva- lent and not malaria? A. About that time I departed from the camp. Q. Did you in any way threaten this doctor that if he did not retract what he said you would court-martial him? A. In substance I did say that if he did not retract what he had said, or if he could not substantiate his statement. I said that I would report him to General Sheridan and he would probably be court-martialed, and I think then that General Brooke took him personally to General Sheridan to make his statement and Gen- eral Sheridan reiterated what I have said. Q. Did Dr. Martin give you the cause for his belief that there was too much sickness in his brigade? A. He said that it had been reported to him that he had not examined the cases, but that it was rumored all over the camp. Q. He says that he went down and saw the condition of things (referring to his conversation dated the llth July). A. I do not think the General threatened .him in any way. I took Dr. Martin to General Sheridan, as my idea was to get the whole of the facts of the case, that if typhoid fever did exist there where did ho get his information from and why did he not make it known to us instead of spreading the information all through the town of Chattanooga, creating a kind of a furore there. Q. He says he got it from Dr. Crawford, and the question was, did it reaUy exist there? That is the only point. A. Yes, sir. By General Wilson: Q. Do I understand that you were present during this interview with General Sheridan? And you were absolutely sure that he made no such statement, threat- ening him with court-martial? A. I think General Sheridan said to him that he should retract his statement or prove that typhoid fever was prevalent there: that he deserved to be court-martialed, that it was wrong to make a statement generally without going into any details; LIEUr. COL. A. HAKTSUFF. 3011 and th;it he Hhoukl cither give us ;i letter of that character, bhowiny where the typhoid cases existed, or else he should retract what he had said; if he did not, he should be court-martialed. By General McCook: Q. Did you not know there was typhoid fever in the camp at that time? A. A good many cases had been taken out to Leiter Hospital and other localities, and. as I said here in my communication to General Brooke, it was for the purpose of correcting, the evils existing there. Q. General Boynton was one of the officers of that camp? A. No; he did not have charge of the surgeons; nothing except of the water supply; he did not have anything to do exceiit just boring wells. Q. And he laid the pipe line? A. No — well, yes; the engineer of the cami^ laid the pipe lines. Q. Then he had general charge of the water? A. Yes, sir. C^. Do you think it was improper for this doctor to liave a conversation with a man and tell him the condition of the water supply? A. Not at all. Q. Did you consider this doctor an alarmist? A. That was the idea exactly. I said to him — I had never seen him before — "What is the evidence: where did you get all this information from? Make your statement of the whole case clearly and verify your statement."' Q. There were, then, 140 medical cases at the Leiter Hospital? A. Yes, sir. Q. And this number had just left there; he had this information? A. We all had this information. Q, Don't you think when he had this conversation with General Boynton it was with the best interests in view? A. Well, it alarmed everybody. Q. But it was a good thing that it did alarm someone? A. Everybody was on the ([ui vive. Q. I think if Dr. Martin had discovered this state of things— I do not think he was anyways to blame? A. That may be. By Dr. Conner: Q. Did not sub.se(iuent events show that Dr. Martin was right? A. Yes, sir. Q. Therefore the wrong was done in his being called to time? A. There was no wrong done to him and none intended. The report made by General Boynton gave us information that the whole of Chattanooga was alarmed, and we were not aware of the direct cause. By Governor Woodbury: Q, Do you think it was right to threaten him with being court-martialed? A. No, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. The plain fact of the matter is, Doctor, that the man was right in his opin- ion and the others were wrong; that there was typhoid fever there? A. Yes, sii'. Q. And it was out by the analysis of it." He means by that that the water was sent to Washington on three or four different occasions. What I wanted to ask you was— he admits, however, that you made a protest — now, did he give tliat protest any consideration at all? A. That protest was made after a consultation between Generals Lee, Boynton, and myself, and finally we got on to the question of water. Q. What about the location of the camps? A. That (piestion — I do not remember the question of camp ever came up. (j). I will read what he says here again: " Lieutonant-Colonel Parker '■■ * * commanders." Can you tell an5'thing about what X'assed between you and Gen- eral Brooke with i-egard to the location of the camp, or the troiible in the camp sites? A. In conversation with General Brooke I reported fretiuently on certain regi- ments — regiments I think were put in too closely on a rocky mound. I reported against this. One regiment (I think the Ninth New York) was located on bad ground, and I reported in general terms against the First Mississi^jpi and two Arkansas regiments. Q. And no attention was paid to your recjuest? A. The Mississipjii regiment — one regiment — was moved: that is, as I remember. Washington, D. C, Decemhcr IS, ISUS. TESTIMONY OF BRIG. GEN. FRANCIS L. GUENTHER. Brig. Gen. Francis L. Guentiieu then ajipearcd l)efo]-e the commission, and the president thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigat on. Ho was then asked if he had any objections to l)cing sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By General Beaver: (,). Will you Idndly give us your full name and rank, and position which you occupied during the war with S])ain? A. Franci.; L. (Tuenther. colonel of the Fourth Artillery, and during the opera- ation of the wir with Spain i occupied the jiosition of brigadier-general of vol- unteers. Q. Please state whether or not you were at Camp Alger at anytime; an2(\ men, we have just lost 2. Q. What provision was made when you went into camp for your sinks? A. Just as soon as we struck camp the officer of tlie day was ordered to have men dig sinks as soon as they stacked arms; and then the surgeons of the regi- ment got a detail once a week to go around and see that the sinks were well taken care of; and also to go through the woods and see if there was any defecation^ and anyone caught there, even though not in the act of defecating, was placed under arrest — he was made to understand that he could not go back that way; and in that way we kept the place pretty clean. Q. To what extent were your sinks made by the men — were they made com- fortable? REY. EDWARD A. KELLY. 3019 A. They were very primitive. I was surprised when I got into contact with one the first time. Q. Was that one of the difficulties in inducing the men to use the sinks, Father Kelly? A. No, sir: not at all. It was the natural slovenliness for some men to take the first brush they came to. Q. Where were your sinks as related to your camp? A. Always at the end of the company streets, below the kitchens. Q. What distance away? A. One hundred and fifty or 250 yards. Q, Did you have any difficulty as to water supply while there? A. We did in the first camp. We would then Ije in what was called the south- west part of Camp Alger. We had to haul water in a long way; that was the only hardship there. Men would 1 e carrying it with long sticks with the ends on their shoulders and five or six buckets hanging from it. We started in to bore wells there, and I thought the water was the finest I ever drank, but our surgeons thought differently. C^. Who was your colonel? A. Col. Mai'cus Cavanaugh. Q. What experience had he had? A. lie was in the State militia in Iowa, and then he was with us foTir or five years before we were called out. Q. Had your regiment any experience in the State camps of Illinois? A. Yes, sir; in the Chicago riots, and in the coal troubles; we were there a week or so. Q. What was the character and quantity of food issued to your regiment? A. The quality of the food was the best. I could not see any reason lor any- liody objecting to the food. The time of getting it was where the mix-up came. The trouble was that when they went to Dunn-Loring, the man there in charge thoiight he could only open one car and on one side of the car at one time: and it was very hot weather. It seemed to me that both sides of the car should be opened and tlu'ee cars at a time. They got there at 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning for their provisions, and th-it was the trouble — they had to wait three or four hours. i^. That related only to the fresh meat? A. Yes, sir: when we started on the march from Camp Alger there was some trouble with provision, and I felt this way, that we could not experience the same thing in camp as where you carried your own rations. Some of them got tired of carrying it and threw it away, and when it came time to eat it they did not have it. One j^oung man said, '• You could not expect a fellow to go off and work an hour or two in the sun and eat that kind of grub."' It happened to be a rainy morning when he came to my tent, and it was the third or fourth time he had made that complaint, and he had his meat with him: so I asked him to come in with his mess-pan and he did and sat down; and I talked with him about home and other interesting subjects while I tasted his meat; after we had beeji talking for some time and the meat was nearly gone he noticed it and looked at me then with his eyes bulging out and he said, " Where do I come in on this meal? "' And I said, ' ' Y^ou don't come in on this meal. "' Then he v/ent off growling that it was no use complaining to me. We had a good many little incidents like that that made it very i^leasant. Q. That was especially pleasant to you? A. Y^es, sir: very. Q. Do you remember. Father Kelly, when your clothing was issued to you? A. At Camp Alger? Q, Yes. 3020 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. I do. Q. What was the date? A. I do not place dates very well in my memory; but I think it was toward the middle of the time of our encampment there. By the way, that came in dribs and draljs, too. They said tlieydid Tiot have the sizes. That is what the quarter- master said. Q. What was the character of your men as to .size? A. They were very much over size. Our surgeons would not take any man who was not physically fit and sound in health. They were all over size, as a general thing. Q. That made it difficult to get clothing to fit them? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the cha.racter of the clothing when you did get it? A. I think it was pretty good. I heard none of the men making complaints about the c'othing. The clothing we got down there was, as a general thing, all right. We had a hard time getting anything from the State in regard to clothing, and so Colonel Cavanaugh and I went down and ordered IJOO uniforms. They were ordered of a firm in Chicago, and the men told me afterwards that the clothing they got afterwards lasted better. Q. Did the men you recruited who were not in the National Guard go there without uniforms? A. I suppose they were around the camp five or six days. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Were they not sent down in details? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, that would make it pretty slow? A. Yes, sir. By General Beaver: Q. You did not maintain a regimental hospital? A. We tried to. We had quite a little row on that head. Before we started some of oiir friends presented us with an ambulance. It was better than any- thing at camp and some of the surgeons there wanted to keep it. We v^^ould not let them have it. Major Surgeon Sullivan built a little hospital in the woods. Then we got an order that our sick would have to go to the general hospital, but as we had only some little troubles, where the men could be kept in the tents, we did not send them over. On account of that Major Girard thought we were hid- ing them in the woods, but that was not so. Q. Have you any knowledge as to the medical supplies your surgeon was able to get from the Government? A. I have not any positive knowledge, except what he remarked, namely, that if it were not for the supplii s that he brought from Illinois he would be in a bad fix; that he could not get any at all. Q. That is, could not get medical supplies? A. Yes, sir; we all wondered why, because it was so near Washington, Phila- delphia, and New York, and we thought they should be able to get what was wanted. C^. Do you know how many men were sent from your camp to Fort Myer, to the division hospital, during your stay at Camp Alger? A. From my regiment, or all? Q. From all. A. I think there were 20 or 30, maybe more. Then, when we started on tho march several got sick at the various stations. We had a field hospital at Bristow Station, and one of our men died there, and we had another at Thoroughfare Gap, and we .sent some men over there. REV. EDWAKD A. KELLY. 3021 Q. What was the length of your march? A. Let me see— 16, 20, 45—1 don't tliink it was over (i() miles. Q. How long were you making that march? A. We were about two weeks. They would have marclied right up to Middle- town if they would have taken it easy, as they did toward the last. Q. Did you carry your tents with you, or had you only the shelter tents? A. Carried only the shelter tents, and one of the funny incidents that occurred then was on that account. We had only a mess tent to shelter them. They left them in Camp Alger, so that if it were not for that we would have been without shelter, and it rained like everything one time when we were in Thoroughfare Gap, and a big wind came along and swept that tent into a field. But I do not understand why they did not bring the officers' tents. T think they were allowed — I don't know the nunaber— but I heard them complain about the insufficiency of the number. We had the conical tents with our regiment — that is. five to a com- pany; that would be GO tents — and if they put on enough to haul those that would have been sufficient. By Colonel Sexton: Q. Was not the object to instruct the men to handle their shelter tents? A. But even then it seemed to me that they would not be more tlian the protec- tion of a little veil. Tliey are buttoned at the top and the rain will get in. The tents are insufficient to protect them. Q. Biit it was very warm? A. Yes. sir; but it rained a great deal. But we got on very well down there, and we had no more sickness, we think, than anyone else, Q. Your experience in all of the departments— the supply department — was that your regiment was fairly well attended to? A. Yes, sir. We have no reason to comi)lain. Asa general thing, our officers knew what was due them and they got it, or found out why they did not get it, Q. How long were you in Camp Meade? A. We were there, I think — it seems to me we were there three or four weeks. Q. What was its character? A. Very nice; the location was fine. We were at the extreme north end of the camp. The only danger about Camp Meade was its proximity to the large towns, where the fellows could sneak off and get full. I thought it was an ideal camp. It was beautifully located, and the ground was nice and high, and I rode around a good deal, as I was the only Catholic priest for 30,000 or 40,000 men there. Q. How was the water supply? A. They were just beginning to put that there. There was a supply placed in the middle of the road. There were several stands and pipes, and every regiment — at least we did — sent wagons to get all the fresh water they wanted. Q. The sanitary condition of the camp was like what? A. The whole camp? Q. Yes. A. Ours was very good. I was not there long enough to judge for the whole camp. It seemed to me the sanitary condition of every camp depended upon the care of the officers, as the men are nothing but grown children. You have got to watch and keep after them and scold them and threaten them just as you would children. By Colonel Denby: Q. I would like to ask how long you remained in the State camp you went to? A. I think we remained there about three weeks. The way I judge it is by the Sundays. Q. You said you changed your camp. I want to know whether that change was not considered by you as beneficial? 3022 INVESTKiATIDN 01'^ CONDUC^T OF WAR Wli'II SPAIN. A. As I told you, we were at the southwest corner of the camp wheu wo Vrni went theri'. We were then moved a mile and a half east into the center of the camp. (.^. Did you go on new ground? A. We went into the woods. We went in there and cut our streets. C^. The change was beneficial? A. Yes, sir; very. Q. Your idea is that regiments should change their locations? A. If I had anything to do with it, 1 would liave them changed every mcmth. Q. Did you look into the tiuestion as to whether a camp would be better in tlie woods than in the ojjen? A. I did, and I made up my mind it was the only p'ace for them— in the woods. One of the regiments we were brigaded with— I think it was the Sixth Pennsyl- vania—the colonel was asked by Generaf Davis where he would go, and he said he would stay out on the liill; and his men were exposed there to the wind and the sun and out in the dust, and we were across the hill and nicely sheltered from the elements in the woods, and it seems to me it is healthy, as the ground and trees absorb the extra moisture and make it healthy. Q. How was the weather while you were there? A. Very hot. Q. Then, of course, you did not feel it necessary to take into account the ques- tion of rain. Did it rain? A. Yes, sir; several times. Q. Hard? A. Yes, sir; when it rained there it was hard, Q. Then you tested and made comparison between camping in the woods and the open? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you still remain of the same conclusion? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were the woods open— that is, no underl)rush? A They were so thick wlien we started you could not drive an animal in; but the men stacked their guns and cleared it out. It was also a pine woods: that was an extra indui ement. Q. Did the sun shine in? A. Yes, sir. By General McCook: Q. And your beds were raised from tlie ground? A. Yes, sir. Whetiever we stayed two or three dftys our surgeon in charge sent the men to get sticks or bricks to keep their bunks off the grovind. By Colonel Denby: (^. Yo^^ state the condition of your men, as far as health was concerned, was good? A. Yes, sir. Q. To what do you ascribe that? A. They were healthy men. From my experience I made up my mind that the man from the city made the best soldier. The man from the country leads a simple and methodical life. He goes to Ijed at certain hours, and he gets his meals at certain hours, and does everything at certain times. The man from the city is tip and doviTi at irregular times. By General Dodge: Q. What proportion of your regiment was sick during the campaign? REV. EDWATID A. KELLY. 8023 A. Well, I should jutli^e tliat there was not any more than — well, 10 per cent would be— I don't think we had 10 jier cent of sick. Q. And ouly two deaths? A. Yes, sir; and tliat is u^) to date. I mean by sickness serious sickness, where the man would have to go to the hospital. (^. You occupied five camps and were on the march how long? A. Oh, I think we were on the march three or four weeks. Q. Four weeks? A. Yes, sir. We were on the march all of that, and out of that time these two men were lost, one at Camp Alger and the other at Bristow Station. By Colonel Denby: Q. Did you haA'e any typhoid? A. Yes, sir; those that were sick all had typhoid, and our surgeon, instead of sending them to the division hospital, sent them to Fort Myer; Q. To what did you ascribe the typhoid fever? A. Because the camp was affected. Q. Do you mean Camp Meade? A. No, sir; Camp Alger. Since we have come home a number of them carried the germs with them, and after the excitement the germs took hold of them, and we had about :J0 in the hospital: but they are all well now. Q. You had some typhoid in the camp at Springfield, didn't you? A. Not to any extent. Q. 1^ do not mean in your regiment, but in the camp. A. Yes, sir; they had some there. But in Springfield we were the only regi- ment out in the weather. We were in tents and the others lived in large halls; but I think we rather had the best of it out in the field, although it was pretty muddy and rainy. Q. A gentleman testified yesterday that the first typhoid had was in the Sixth Illinois, and he said that was the first they had at Camp Alger. Captain Howell. You examined the hospital at Fort Myer, did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. From your inspection there and the manner in which they treated your cases is it your opinion that the men could be better treated there than at the average home from which they came? A. I think they would be better treated there than in any hospital in the United States. I want to say in regard to xMajor Davis that he is the most capable man 1 ever saw. The number of men lost there is exceedingly low. When they got sick at Camp Alger the facilities for transportation were very poor, and the men would be likely to be shocked to death going over the rough road. That is what lost our first man. They had to go over this rough road, and then they were put in an e'.ectric car; but once they got to Fort Myer there was every facility for them to recover. As a matter of fact, most of them did recover. Q. I have talked to many convalescents and they told me that they thought the treatment there was better than in the average home. A. Major Davis, I thought, was one of the brightest men I ever saw. I was agreeably surprised to find him in that position, as he is an excellent man. Q. What did you think of Camp Alger as a place to encamp a number of sol- diers? A, I liked it. The place was rolling land and it had shade enough, and the water gotten from those wells driven there appeared to me very good. I do not know that anyone made an analysis of it, but it was cool and nice, and there was a running stream there; and if the individual officers had made the men take care of themselves, I think it would have been an ideal place. They should also make 3024 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. the men bathe themselves more frequently. For $5,000 they could have bathed every man in that regiment once or twice a week, and they could have done it in this way. When we were at Springfield, our major got a large tent and some stoves, and he had a number of tubs, and he had the men lirought in and bathed them, company by company. They simply had to erect four or five posts and tie the tent up, have a hose to fill it, and put a stockade around, and make them bathe. Instead of that, our regiment marched 10 or 13 miles to get down and take a bath. Q. Don't you think the march was beneficial to you? A. It was beneficial, but the roads were simply frightful down there; it was simply powdered dust; but the boys enjoyed the march, and they went once a week. Q. Was your regiment alone? A. Yes, sir. By General Wilson : Q. You have just given, in answer to Captain Howell's question, your opinion as to the (luality of the hospitals and the difiierent camps; and now, to sum up, what is your opinion as to the quality of the rations? A. As good as could possibly be had by the men. Q. And the quantity? A. Good. Q. And the character of the clothing? A. Good; so far as I know. Q. Of your own regiment? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is all I want you to answer to. A. It was very good. They were very well taken care of. General Dodue. Ally other question? [No response. ] By General Dodge: Q. Have you anything we have not questioned you about that you would care to speak ol ? A. I have no suggestion to make to you gentlemen except in regard to my own line; I gave a little spiritual advice once in a while. I did want to "say that I do not know whether— for the time or number of men that there was— I do not know whether they have been as well taken care of anywhere as in our Army. I think, excepting the Medical Department, they were as well taken care of as they could possibly be. For instance, down in Camp Alger. I do not see why the men when sick should not be supplied with bunks, and also have a floor in the hospital tents. When a man is sick I think he should be taken care of. but when he is well he should hustle. Some of tliese men were delirious, and they would stand on the groimd in their bare feet, and the ground would absorb all of the heat out of ■ their bodies and chill them. I do nut know any way to remedy that unless you had men or women or sisters, experienced as nurses, to take care of them. Our hospital corps was well drilled, but they were divided and split up among the others. That is the only remedy I could suggest. Q. The medical profes.sion is divided as to the floors for hospitals. Some prefer the ground. A. I did not know that. I know if a man in Chicago or anywhere else had a son sick with typhoid fever and he put him out into a yard under a cover they would have him arrested by the humane societies. I\IA.l. BENJAMIN V. POPE. 3025 LETTER FROM NATIONAL RELIEF COMMISSION. The following coiiiiiinnicatiou from the National Relief Commission was read and ordered filed and printed in the record: Philadelphia, Pa., December J J, 1S9S. Richard Weightman, Secretary to Commissioa to Investigate Conduct of War Departvient in War irith S2^ain, Wasldngton, D. C. Dkak Silt: In reply to your letter of December 6, 1898, stating that the secre- tary of the National Relief Commission be reiinested to be present before your commission on Wednesday, the 14th instant, to ••give such testimony as will aid the purpose of this investigation." I have the honor to inform yoii that at a meet- ing of the subcommittee of this commission, held at this office this day, it was, on motion of Mr. Greorge C. Thomas, Resolved, That in the judgment of this commission it is deemed undesirable that the general secretary should accept the invitation contained in the letter of Richard Weightman, secretary of the commission appointed by the President of the United States to investigate the condiTct of the War Department in the war with Spain, under date of December (>, and that he be instructed to inform the said conin ission that the National Relief Commission has notas yet completed its labors, but as soon as the report, which is now being prepared, is issued a copy will be sent to the commission. And on the motion of Mr. Thomas E. Baird, it was Resolved, That the conmiission deems it inexpedient to be represented before the investigation commission by any of its members at the present time. Respectfully, M. S. French, General Secretary. Washington, D. C, December 14, 1S9S. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. BENJAMIN F. POPE. Maj. Benjamin F. Popk then appeared before the commission, and the presi- dent thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By Dr. Conner: q. Will you be kind fenoiigh to tell us what your stations were during the progress of the war with Spain? A. Up to the 19th of April I was on duty at Columbus Barracks, Ohio, with the Seventeeth United States Infantry. I was then ordered by the Secretary of War to accompany that regiment to duty in the field at Tampa, Fla. We arrived, I think, about the 22d day of April, and I was still surgeon of the regiment for a week or more, but during that time, being the senior medical officer present. I was appointed the chief surgeon of the United States forces at that place. With the gathering of the commands I received another assignment under another title as chief surgeon of the independent division, which was under command of General Wade. Later, General Shaffer took command; again, being the senior officer present. I was made chief surgeon of the forces under General Shaffer, and on the formation of the Fifth Army Corps I was made chief surgeon of the Fifth Army Corps, and so continued up to the 2;]d of July, when I was relieved 7833— VOL. () 40 3026 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. from duty on account of illness at my own recinest, at that time being in Cn^ . near Santiago. Q. Major, during the time you were in Tampa, will you tell us whether or iiot you were consulted in the selection of Tampa as a cami^ing place? A. I was not, sir. Q. What is your opinion now of Tampa as a camp site? A. Taking my experience from the time we went to Tampa up to the 8th day of June, I had every reason to ho jsatisiied with Tampa as a- camp site, especially that part which was on Tampa Heights. It was elevated ground, a good, sandy woil, fairly well shaded with pine trees, and good, clean sand. The subsoil water was about 12 feet below the surface — we made some investigation as to the dexith of subsoil water. The water supply of the camij at that time was from a large spring supplying the whole city of Tampa. I inspected the spring, found that it had been developed from rock, walled up, and the water was certainly fine, and I could find no x>ossible point where it could be contaminated by surface wash or sewage. This water was delivered into large— if my recollection is right— a large steel tower: and from there piped to the camjis and division hospital on Tampa Heights, and delivered through 2-inch mains to the various camps by means of spigots, which were located at convenient distances from the camps of the troops. The camps near the Tampa Bay Hotel were not so fortunately located. The ground was low, the water very near the surface, and the water supply was from a source not connected, I believe, with the city supply, but an independent supply, as I understood, under the control of the owners of the Tampa Bay Hotel. 1 won't be positive as to that. The troops camiied out near what is called Palmetto Beach had a very favorable location at that season, and their water supply came from a large well — I do not know who had c ntrol of it, but it was pumped by steam, and I think it was afterwards delivered by pipes to the several commands located there. These troops were nearly all volunteers. Q. Up to the time you left Tampa, what was the health of the command? A. The health of the command was — so far as men being excused from duty was concerned, it was excellent. Our average sick rate— in time of peace for the whole Army — was about 41 per cent; that is, the continuous noneffective rate. The noneffective rate up to the time we left was not over 3i per cent, sometimes it was lower. In fact, never in my experience have I seen so healthy a command as was at Tampa from the time I came there until the time we embarked, in fact, until the time — say, after the 1st of July, or even later, the health of the command was excellent. Q. Have you any familiarity with the conditions prevailing in other parts of Florida? A. None whatever. I would like to state that while this was the rate of men excused from duty, there was a large amount of intestiaal disorder among them, which I called an acclimating diarrhea. I had it myself, and nearly every officer and man in the command got it, and the people told us it was common with new- comers. I found that to be the case. In about three or four weeks the men there that length of time gradually recovered from this diarrhea, and nearly all the officers. It disabled no one from duty, but it did make a large draft upon the drugs of the corps. Q. What influence do you think was made upon this diarrhea by the conditions which i^revailed in Santiago afterwards? A. None whatever, sir. I believe they had wholly recovered from that, and it was possibly due to the change from steam-heated barracks, comfortable beds, and warm blankets that the troops had been accustomed to, and placing them suddenly upon the cold ground and with night chills and the intense heat of the day. I rather accounted for it in that way, as many complained of being chilled MA J. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3027 in the abdoiuen during the night, and I advised them to protect the abdominal viscera with their blankets. Q. Has it not been the experience of medical officers that this form of diarrhea is exceedingly common in early spring and summer^ A. Yes, sir. Q. And isn't it a fact that it is a thing to be provided for and anticipated? A. Our experience on the frontier in the hot countries of the Rio Grande did not give this diarrhea. Q. Is there not a difference between the condition iirevailing 150 miles from the coast in Te.sas from that prevailing in the Gulf coast of Florida? A. There is a difference; one is arid and dry and the other moist, but the differ- ence is not great. Q. Is not the tendency to diarrhea greater in low, swampy, or moist countries of the Gulf coast than anywhere on the plains? A. I have not had sufficient experience to tell that. I know we had it in Florida at that time. Q. Would you regard it as wise to have troops from the North spend the early and middle summer in Florida in the beginning of their military service? A. Well, so far as the Fifth Army Corps was concex'ned, I could not see that any harm was done up to the time we left, and I would hardly like to give an opinion on that subject, becaiise I was not present during July and August, when it appears there was a good deal of sickness there. Q. You si)ok(' of the army requiring a great deal of medicine on account c)f the intestinal disturbances. Please tell us what amount of medicines were with the command when the several parts of it arrived at Tampa. Also what arrange- ments were made for securing additional supplies and in what amount those addi- tional supplies were received while you were there. A. As the regiments arrived from the north they brought with them their com- plete field and camp equipage of the medical department Q. Let me interrupt you one moment. Does that cover all the regiments or only the regulars? A. The regular regiments. The volunteers arrived with nothing. They also brought with them — but I ought to say before that that in this outfit there came with nearly every regiment a medical chest and a surgical chest and three months' supplies of extra drugs, as laid down in the supply table. I inspected nearly all of these regiments and received lists from the medical officers of everything they had. These lists were all consolidated and kept by me for reference, and. unfortu- nately that consolidation was left in Tampa, and I have been unable lo get hold of it since; but I will say the etiuipment was very complete, and under usual condi- tions would have met the requirements of service, I think, for at least two months— hardly three. Q. For what number of men? A. For the number of men in each regiment. Each regiment brouglit its own supplies. Q, At what time did the volunteer regiments begin to come in? A. It seems to me they conmienced to come in about the latter part of May, to the best of my recollection. Q. And what time did you leave Tampa? A. The 8th day of June. Q. Between the time of your arrival and the date of your departure, how many regiments came in? That is, how many volunteer troops, speaking generally? A. Well, I will have to make a little figuring on that. There was the Second Massachusetts, the Seventy-first New York, I think the Sixth Massachusetts, a Georgia regiment, the Sixth Ohio Volunteers 3028 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. General McCoijk. Fifth Maryland and Sixty-nintli New York? The Witness. They had not got there. I do not think there were more than five, Q. Up to the time you left? A. Yes, sir. The regulars were supplied with medicines, but I do not know that the volunteer regiments had anything. Q. During the time between the latter part of May and the 8th of June what was the amount of sickness among the volunteer troops as reported to you as chief surgeon? A. On their first arrival the troops were in fair health, although suffering from the diarrhea the same as others, and up to the time I left they were in pretty good health, although measles appeared among them, and a good many were brought to our hospital suffering with that disease; some few cases of typhoid fever also appeared, but the number was not large. I think, taken as a whole, the health of the volunteers, up to the time I left, was quite as good as the regulars. Q. Were tlie medical supplies you spoke of as being brought there by the regulars used by the regular troops and kept in charge by the medical officers of those troops, or were they distributed through the camp to volunteers as well as regulars? A. The supplies, all by the regular troops; the medicines and the medical chests were retained by the several regiments and were used by the regular regiments in the treatment of their own sick; and I think they were retained by them until they were pretty well exhausted. On the formation of the divisional hospitals the camp etiuipage that they brought with them was absorbed into the divisional hospitals, but the drugs and the medicine chests and the surgical chests were retained by the several regiments. Q. Was the supply of medicines, outside those brought by the regulars, sufficient to satisfy all the proper demands of the volunteer troops during the time you were at Tampa? A. One of my first reiiuests for medicines was for medical and surgical chests to fit out the volunteer troops. I was informed that these chests were in a state of preparation and would be forwarded very shortly, and every day I expected their arrival. In the meanwhile, by the direction of the Surgeon- General, I had started a medical supply dejiot in Tampa. Q. About what date, please? A. I will have to refer to my memorandum, [Witness examines paper.] Q. Well, about what time. Major? A. Well, I think it was about the second week in May. I would like to give it to you more explicit than that. I can not find that just now. (^. That was before the arrival of the volunteer troops, was it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you supplied with any considerable amount of medicines in answer to that request prior to the arrival of the volunteer troops? A. Yes, sir. Medicines came in— drugs came in in limited quantities— and were discharged from the freight cars and delivered by the Quartermaster's Department to the storehouses which they had given me for that purpose. Some- thing came in almost every day, but the first that we received was surgical mate- rials. The drugs did not C(nue in so rapidly as the surgical materials; and as fast as they came in I directed the issue by the medical supply officer to the volunteer regiments that might be there, approving all requisitions that were brought to me, and directing what we had on hand should be delivered to the volunteer regi- ments in preference to the regulars, so as to fit them out as quickly as possible. Q. How soon was the division hosi^ital organized? A. I will refer to my memorandum for that. [Witness refers to paper.] Q. Let me save you the trouble. Was it established before or after the arrival of the volunteer troops? MAJ. BENJAMIN P. POPE. 3029 A. Before, to the best of my recollection. Q. Was it sufficiently provided to accommodate the number of sick from the number of men who arrived? A. I had no information as to the niunber of men that might arrive. Q. Did you not have any information about that? A. I understood that lo.OOO men would be there before we left. Q. Were retiuisitions made for the necessary supplies for 15,000 men before the expedition was to leave? A. That was ray understanding. I received word from the Surgeon-General that I was to establish this medical-supi)iy depot, and that ample supplies would be forwarded to me for all the immediate requirements of the command. Q. In point of fact, when you left did you have all the needed supplies, medical and surgical, for the entire corps? A. I will have to make a division of that question, and I would like to go into it more particularly. Q. Answer in your own way, sir. Give us all the facts bearing on the actual amount of supi)lies yon took with you. A. On the establishment — do you want to know which, with reference to these division hospitals, or the whole expedition medical supplies? Q. I want to know what medicines j'ou had on hand for the expeditionary corps when you started. A. That is. when we sailed? Q. Yes, sir; when you sailed. A. All surgical material I had received and distribiited . I had distributed over 13,000 surgical packets for wounds and dressing. Q. The first aid packets? ' A. Yes, sir. I received also — I think it was 40 boxes of surgical dressings, each one of which, from my observations in Cuba, would dress from 150 to 200 wounds, probably more. I received surgical operating tables sufiflcient for the field hos- pitals. Sterilizers, a large amount of splinting material, adhesive plaster, cotton rolls, batting, absorbent cloths, lint, towels, rubber sheeting, etc. Q. Let me interrupt for a moment to ask you right there: Did you take with you at the time you left Tampa sufficient surgical dressing to supply the probable necessities of 6,000 wounded men? As I understand you, there were 40 cases, each containing sufficient to dress 150 wounds. Did you carry with you sufficient medical dressing for O.OOO wounded men? A. Yes, sir. Q. Not the first dressing alone, but in the hospital until they could get their other sujiplies? A. I think it might go higher than that. Doctor; I think it would go higher than that. Q. You had plenty for 4,000? A. Yes, sir. Q. To what extent were you supplied Avith medicines such as might naturally be needed in a country such as jon were going to? A. There was where we were short. The constant demand for the drugs did not keep up with the supply that came in— the supply that came in did not keep up with the demand, is what I mean— and I was obliged to telegraph the Surgeon- General for permission to purchase in Tampa enough to meet the demands of the command until the supplies arrived. Q. What would have been the difficulties in your having during those two weeks ample supplies for three months" time for an army of sixteen or seventeen thousand men? A. So far as I know it is only a (luestion of transportation in getting it into Tampa. 3030 INVESTIGATION OP CONDTTCT OF WAI? WITH SPAIN. Q. Was an effort made two or three weeks beforehand to get all tlio medicines needed for an army of sixteen or seventeen thousand men for a jjeriod of one month? A. Yes, sir. Q. The supplies were applied for? A. Reqiiisitions came in approved by me, and the Surgeon-General informed me that supplies had been ordered and were on the way, and I expected tliem each day. Q. And those supplies did not reach Tampa until you were forced to leave? A. Some of them did. Q. To what extent? A. With our purchases we were able to keep up with the current demand. On the oth of June the first rush of supplies came in. I think, to the best of my rec- ollection, there were some 200 packages received and delivered at our storehouse. The medical-supply ofiftcer had them opened, and I directed him to issue at once to the regiments composing the Fifth Army Corps, according to their requisitions, all that we had on hand. I directed him further to issue to the volunteers going with the command all that we could give them out of that stock, according to their requisitions. I further directed him to issue to tlie field hospitals what they needed on their requisitions, taking, of course, account of what was in the store- house. We had a good many things that were called for by the requisitions, and some things that were called for by the requisitions that were not there, and we issued what we had. When that was all through I told the acting medical store- keeper to set aside for me one-half of all that was left after that issuing, and that I would take on the transports with me. At first I intended to take everything with me, to clean out the storehouse, but when I understood that troops were to be left behind, and they had needs as well as I, and that I was the medical officer in charge of the Fifth Army Corps, of those that remained as well as those we took, I left one-half for the use of the volunteer troops. I wish to say that one-half was a very small lot, not over 50 or 60 packages of medicine. I left some of the boxes of first dressings, some seven or eight, with directions to deliver them to the vol- unteer troops. All that was left, or that one-half, I got into the storehouse on the night of the Sth, loaded it into wagons, carried it down to the trains at Port Tampa, and took it from there and put it on the steamer SeguvdiK^a as my reserve stock. Captain Gaudy sent me the next morning two lots more, which I put on the steamer Comal, and that was the last of the medical and surgical sxti)plies that we received before sailing. Q. At the time of sailing to what extent — what proportion of the necessary medical hospital supplies were on the transports for the jirobable necessities of an army of 17,000 men for thirty days? A. All surgical supplies Q. You have already answered that; just take the medical supplies? A. The medical supplies, counting what was with the regiments— I believed at the time we had enough to carry us through nicely until the arrival of the hos- pital ship Relief, whicli I was inf\ They were willing to risk their boats for that; and it was a grand sight to see how they took those boats into the surf and got the wounded and brought them out and landed them on board. Q. Was the Olivette pre]>ared to furnisli any considerable quantity of medical supplies to the regimental officers? A. She had enough for herself and a little for the cor])s hospital at Siboney. I directed her to turn in all she could spare at Siboney. At that time I intended to and did supply a medical supply depot for the corps, and from that point distrib- MAJ. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3035 uted to the regiments in front all the supplies that could be spared from the hospital. Q. Captain McKay was asked the following questions and gave the answers which I shall read: '^Q. That was moved away from there, but I don't know how. Did you take off any medical supplies? "A. Yes; some. '■ Q. In what quantity? "A. I can't recollect that. " Q. There were men in charge of the hospital, so that you took off the entire hospital from the ships? ••A. Yes; I wanted to take that off— the surgeon and the equipment he had— the day I discharged the LonisidiKi of her packers, the ambulances, and the pack train, and he said he did not feel justified in leaving there until he got orders to do -so. "Q, Therefore it was the Hospital Department that kent them from being taken off? "A. Yes, sir; and I didn't know he was taken ashore until a couple of days after that. •'Q. Did Colonel Pope, the surgeon of that division, make any application to you to take off medical stores or hospital supplies? "A. I never saw Colonel Pope from the time he arrived there until he took transport to Santiago. "Q. Do you know anything as to this fact, that the only transportation that was given to us was a small boat whicli was turned over to Colonel Pope and used by him for the collection of medic.d supplies to the transports? This was taken away after accomplishing nothing, but was directed to be returned immediately to the ship where it was needed for other purposes. "A. Never heard of it." Q. Was this transaction at Siboney or at Daiquiri? A. To the best of my recollection it was at Siboney. Q. Then he goes on: "Q. Dr. Munson, who was in charge of the transportation and landing of the hospital supplies; did you meet him? "A. Not to my knowledge, "Q. He testified that he requested of Colonel Humphrey, or one of the majors, who was quartermaster, transportation, and it was refused him. "A. I never heard anything of it." Q. If he was at Daiquiri, would he be apt to know what was going on at Siboney? A. Not to my knowledge. I do not see how he could. Q. Then he goes on: "A courier came in there at 8 o'clock at night from headquarters to get medical stores from certain ships; we went out and got onoof them, and the other we could not find. I also had notice from Colonel Humphrey that just as soon as I could get hold of certain other ships— as soon as I could find them— to get medical sup- plies of them. " Q. So you had orders to take the supplies? "A. Y^es, sir. " Q. How long before you got hold of them? "A. Not more than a day. " Q. If any medical officer or couri(;r or order from any doctor had ctnue to you. being there in charge o'i the unloading of ;ships, asking you for medical supplies, was it your orders to refuse or would yon let them have th(^ su])plics? "A. Y''es, sir; promptly. " Q. So that if you received an ordtn- any day alter you landed there, and received 3036 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAIJ WITH SPAIN. anj- reiiuest from any doctor, there was uo trouble about getting them ashore iu a day? "A. Yes. "Q. Did the doctor know that fact? "A. No, sir. "Q. Was there not an order printed that you had charge of the matter? "A. I can not tell you, " Q. Were you in uniform? "A. No, sir; I was around the ships. Every day I was around the whole fleet, giving the orders to the captains, and telling them when I received orders. " Q. Yes. You dont know whether an order was issued that you were an assistant? "A. I don"t say. " Q. Were you recognized as such? "A. Colonel Pope consulted me about a hospital ship. I took him down and showed him^the Olivette.'" Q. When was that? A. That was in Tampa. Q. Then he goes on to say that he was the man you consulted about the hospital ship and other things. Did you have any occasion to know of the presence of a man at Siboney or Daiquiri whom you consulted about the taking of the Olivette? A. I can not recollect. Colonel Sexton : He says himself he did not see Major Pope. The Witness: I can not recollect having seen him. My impression is he was at Daiquiri. I was up at Siboney until the move from the headquarters of the coi'ps up to the front line. Q. Where was the main body of supplies, off Daiquiri or off Siboney? A. The medical supplies of the field hospital were at Siboney and the regimental siipplies were cruising around somewhere there in these triinsports, and they were the most exasper.-Uing ships I ever came across. We would see them one moment near shore and the next moment they would be out at sea. If you attempted to run them down in a boat they seemed to work their paddles as fast as they could, and then off they would go. Q. W^as it at Daiquiri or Siboney that you made an attempt to get these medical supplies, or at both? A. At Siboney 'particularly: the Cmnherland did nearly all this work at Daiquiri. Q. Was there any proper liospital transportation w-hen you landed or soon after you landed? A. You mean in Cuba? Q. Yes, sir. A. Well, I would like to go back in the story a little— to Tampa. Q. Answer the question first. Major, and I will take you back to Tampa. A. All right, sir. There were landed from a steamer coming from New Orleans— I have forgotten her name— three hospital ambulances. They were set up and came in use at the battle on the 1st of July. Aside from that, we had no other ambulances until the 2d of July, when Lieutenant Kennedy, assistant surgeon, appeared at the front with a train of ten ambulances. By Captain How'ell: Q. When was that? A. On the 2d day of July. Now you speak of prior to that? By Dr. Conner: Q. You have answered it as I wanted i( answered. There were, then, originally or early landed three ambulances? MAJ. BENJAMIN F. POi'E. 3037 A. Yes, sir. Q. And then soon following them ten more under Lieutenant Kennedy's direc- tion? A. Yes, sir; T think they came from the steamer Louisiana. Q. Were they landed at Daiquiri or Siboney? A. I understand at Daiquiri. Q. Was there any difficulty taking those ambulances, the first three and the second lot of 10, over the roads to the front? A. Lieutenant Kennedy reported to me that he had no difficulty in doing so when he came on the 2d of July. Q At that time, in your judgment, there would be no difficulty in taking in 13 or 11.3 ambulances over that road? A. So far as I could see, no. Q. Why were there not a proper number ot ambulances taken to Siboney and Daifiuiri and landed at an early date? A. In forming my field hospitals at Tampa I at tiie same time formed two ambulance trains. The first train we formed was that in command of Lieutenant Kennedy, and became a part of the third divisional or reserve corps hospital. To the best of my recollection, that train— it certainly had l.^i ambulances, and I am inclined to think there were 30. Another train was formed for the Second Division hospital, consisting of about 12 ambulances. Tlie first divisional hospital had a train, I think, of some seven or eight in formation. Now, we had plenty of ambulances at Tampa. There was a train load of them there— certainly 150— and we had plenty of mules, but we did not have plenty of harness, and that is what delayed the formation of the ambulance train — waiting for the orders of the Quartermaster's Department to get in sufficient harness to get the train formed. But we got that formed eventually, and they were the first trains. Q. How long Ijefore the date of your embarkation were your hospital trains in condition to be moved? A. The train attached to the hospital First Division corps was two weeks before we left. Q. The Second Division train came when? A. The Second Division train within ten days and the First Division train within a week. Q. Therefore we are to understand that a week before you had a proper hospi- tal train ready to go with the expedition? A. Yes, sir; and not only that, but a baggage division. Q. Kindly tell us why^yoiT did not take this train. A. A few days before the order of embarkation came 1 asked the general com- manding about taking my ambulance train. He said, '•! fear we shall have to leave them; the transports are filled, and we have not afoot of space to put in this ambulance train," and my subsequent inspection of the transports demonstrated to me he was correct. He had either to leave his troops or the amlnilances behind, as there were not enough transports to carry both. The transports between decks, and often in the hold, were crowded with standing bunks for the troops, and I could not see where on earth we could get those ambulances in. It would proba- bly have required at least two large vessels with clear space between decks to have taken my ambulance and baggage train. And all the ambulances, from the nature of the ports on the ship, would have to be taken apart, the wheels and axles and covers taken off, and the whole thing packed for shipment in a confined space. Then we had four mules to every ambulance, and our wagons were very largely six-mule. I should have had two vessels. Q. Do you know, as chief surgeon of the corps, whether space had been made for your ambiilance train? A. I had full confidence that if the transportation was to be had I would have 3038 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. had it. lean not recollect that until just before the embarkation I made any special request on that point, for I thought if anything went our ambulances would go. By General Dodge: Q. Was the country such, off this main road, that your ambulances could move? A. The troops did a great deal of cutting, and most of the moving we did was on roads cut by troops. The other roads were so overgrown that we could hardly get through. By Dr. Conner: Q. There were, as you stated, 13 ambulances on hand on the 2d of July? A. Yes, sir; and they were all used for the transportation of the wounded from Dai(iuiri to the first hospital and from the first hospital to the base hospital at Siboney. From the time they first reported they were used day and night over from the advance line to the first divisional hospital and from the first divisional hospital at Siboney. Q. How large a i)roportiou of the wounded, after the fights of the 1st and 2d of July, were transported in ambulances from the field; first, to the division hospital? A. Well, as we had over 1,100 wounded, 10 ambulances could probably make 4 trips from the field to the division hospital, and each ambulance would carry, of seriously wounded men, 4 — they were double-deckers— of men less seriously wounded they carried 8 and sometimes 13. That could he worked out pretty well. Q. Then at the very best — were there 10 or 13 ambulances? A. Thirteen, sir. Q. At the very best, then, you could transport 308 seriously wounded — that is, you had 4 ti'ips of 13 ambulances, 53 trips carrying 4 each, which is 308? You could have delivered 308 seriousl}' wounded and double that number of fairly seriously wounded and possibly three times as much of slightly wounded? A. Yes, sir. Q. Isn't it a fact in battle that half of the wounded men do not need an ambu- lance? A. Yes, sir. After the battle of San Juan hill I saw a number of them walk down or carried down by their c^omrades. Q. If that is a fact, is it a fact that your thirteen ambulances should have afforded transportation for all the seriously wounded of the 1st and 3d of July? A. Not all of them. (Jn the 1st we had onlj' thix-o ambulances. It was only on the 2d that we had thirteen. The carriage of the wounded commenced as early as 10 o'clock. Q. I asked about when you had the thirteen. A. At that time the great mass of the wounded had been brought in by hand, by wagon, and the three ambulances we had. Q. Is it a fact that a large number or considerable number were carried in army wagons and jolted up and down rough roads and the sides of creeks? A. Yes, sir. There were a number of seriously wounded carried in wagons on the 1st of July, and they had to cross streams and ride over bad roads, very bad roads, and roads with cobblestonas; and, with the exception of the wounded at El Caney, they must have carried the bulk of the wounded to us by noon of the 3d. Q. If you had had all the ambulance train you wanted, would not there have been much the same complaint about transporting wounded over rough grounds? A. Yes, sir. Q. Isn't it a fact that the loading of these men in the wagons was an unnecessary cruelty? A. I won't say that. My experience in the civil war taught me that wagons must be utilized for the transportation of wounded where ambulances are not at hand or not enough of them. That has occurred frequently during the civil war, MAJ. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3039 and cluring tliis war we intemled to i;se wagons rather than not have any trans- portation to bring them off the field. Q. The question I want to get an answer to is simply this: You have stated that if you had your full ambulance train there, the men would have to be carried over the same roads with the same jolting practically? A. Yes, sir; that is so. Q. Then, because of the fact that they were transported in wagons instead of ambiilances, were their sufferings materially aggravated because of not having them transported in the ambulances? A. Certainly. The transportation by ambulance is by a spring wagon, and in the other wagons there were no springs. By General Dodge: Q. Did you have any deaths occur by reason of that fact, of transportation in wagons instead of ambulances? A. But one came to my notice. I saw one man at the first divisional hospital taken out dead. I can not say that he died because of the ride in the wagon. I ■did not see him put in it. Wherever we could get grass or hay we bedded the men down, and in transporting them from Daiquiri to Siboney I had the wagons bedded with hay and endeavored to jjrevent any crowding. Captain Plu miner, who had charge of the wagon trains, gave me hay when he had it; but when he did not have it, he set men to cutting grass, so as to make the transportation of the wounded as merciful as possible. By Dr. Conner: Q. In how large a proportion of the cases were the wagons so bedded and the men relieved in this manner from unnecessary discomfort? Half of them? A. On the 1st day of July we had no hay there, but some of the wagons wei'e bedded with hay, that being done by some oflicers at the front. I would not attempt to give you any figures on that. Q. As a result of your exi)erience heretofore and during this war, is it your opinion that it is possible to prevent suffering in transportation? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever know of a dead man being taken out of an ambitlance? A. Certainly I have. Q. I myself have taken four out of one wagon; that was at a hospital in this town after the second battle of Bull Run. By General Beaver: Q. Major, as between wagons for ordinary purposes and ambulances, if one was to be left behind, was it not better to leave the ambulances, because you c-ould not use the ambulances for carting stores, and you could use the wagons for carrying the wounded? A. It was our intention to utilize every means of transportation for the wounded. Much of the transportation of the wounded was by hand, and it was done splendidly. One man was carried 7 miles that way. By Dr. Conner: Q. I do not think you quite answered the question. The ciuestion was, as I understood it: If it were necessary to leave either the wagons or the ambulances behind, which do you think should be left? A. That is a hard question to determine, because the medical officer has only the care of his wounded in mind in answering, and he would say: Let the wagons go; you can use a pack train, but take along your ambulances. The fighting officer would say: We will take our chances on the ambulances; we will pack the men down by hand carriage if necessary. 3040 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Major, be good enough to tell us how many medical officers you had with you in your division leaving Tampa? A. On leaving Tampa we had 36 regular officers, 15 volunteer officers, and 20 contract surgeons. Q. The 15 volunteer officers you speak of refers to those that were attached to regiments, or were they all attached to regiments? A. To those attached to volunteer regiments. Q. And under the head of 30 regular officers, do you include any of the brigade appointments made since the war broke out? A. Well, at the time that we left there were a number of regular officei's who, 1 think, after we left, got their brigade appointments. Q. I mean, does this 30 include any appointed from civil life as brigade surgeons? A. No, sir; all regular officers receiving volunteer commissions. Q. What number of volunteer officers reported lo j'ou wliile you were in Cuba? A. On the steamer Relief there were a number of medical officers came out, and of that number, to the best of my recollection, some 15 reported to me for duty. In that number was Major (^orgas, of the Regular Army, who afterwards took charge of the yellow-fever hospital at iSiboney; and the rest were contract sur- geons, to the best of my recollection. Later, several came after the capture of the city of Santiago and rej)orted to me. There were also some Illinois volunteers. When they arrived they brought three officers with their regiments of volunteers. The First District of Columbia brought three. But the number I give you is the number of regular officers who were with the expedition when we sailed from Tampa. Q. Thirty- six regular. 15 regimental —and how many contract surgeons? A. Twenty. Q. Seventy-one in all? A. Seventy-one in all. Q. At what time did Dr. Senn A. I never included him. in my force. He was there as an expert. Dr. Senn reported from the steamer Relief. Dr. Nancrede and Dr. Vaughan came, I think, with the Michigan volunteers; I believe I have included them among the 15 vol- unteer officers. Q. They were, however, brigade surgeons of volunteers? A. Yes, sir. Q. To what duties were these 30 regular officers assigned upon arrival in Cuba? A. Their assignments to duty were made prior to embarkation for (Juba. Q. I want to find out how many were connected with regiments on regimental service, how many were detailed for hospital service, and how many were with you? A. Oh, yes. I will have to do some digging out here. [Referring tt> list.J I had the names of the officers. Q. Just give it to me in a general way? A. To commence with, I will give you the names of those who were with the field hospitals: Maj. L. A. La Garde, in charge of divisional hospital No. 3 at Port Tamp, Fla. ; Maj. A. H. Appel, in charge of the divisional hospital No. 2. Q. That is the Olivette? A. Yes, sir: at one time on the Olivette. Maj. George McCreery, he was in charge of the field hospital, cavalry division, and executive officer at Siboney dur- ing the yellow-fever epidemic; Major Havard was chief surgeon of the cavalry division: Maj. Henry S. Kilbourne, chief surgeon. Second Division; Major Wood, M. W. Wood, chief surgeon of the First Division; Maj. R. G. Ebert was assigned to the Twelfth United States Infantrj% and he was chief surgeon. Second Brigade, Second Division, and also in charge of the wounded Spanish lorisoners at El Caney; Maj. R. W. Johnson was executive officer and brigade surgeon in division liospi- MA.I. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3041 tal No. 1; Maj. W. D. McCaw. l)rigade surgeon, United States Volunteers, was chief surgeon of the First Brigade, First Division; Maj. F, J. Ives, Twentieth United States Infantry, chief surgeon of Bates' independent division; Maj. H. S. T. Harris, United States Infantry, brigade surgeon of volunteers, later chief surgeon in the cavalry division; Maj. W. B. Banister, brigade surgeon, United States Vol- unteers, Second United States Infantry, in charge field hospital near General Bates's division; Maj. Paul Shillock, brigade surgeon, Twenty-fifth United States Infantry, chief surgeon. Second Brigade, Second Division: Maj. Ogden Ratferty, brigade surgeon, United States Volunteers, on duty at Siboney, Cuba, and act- ing medical supply officer; he returned to the United States in charge of the sick on the steamer Cherokee; Maj. Philip G. Wales, brigade surgeon. United States Volunteers, was with the Twelfth United States Infantry; Capt. A. B. Heyl, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, with the First United States Cavalry; Capt. Joseph T. Clarke, assistant surgeon, Twenty-second United States Infantry; Capt. M. W. Ireland, U. S. Army, assistant surgeon, surgeon at division hospital No. 3, at Port Tampa and Siboney; Capt. H. C. Fisher, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, Twenty-first United States Infantry; Capt. F. A. Winter, assistant sur- geon, U. S. Army, Third United States Cavalry, returned to the United States on the transport City of Wosliington; Capt. M. W. Brewer, assistant surgeon, Tenth United States Cavalry: Capt. H. M. Hallock, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, with the Seventh United States Infantry; Capt. G. J. Newgarden, assist- ant surgeon, U. S. Army, Third United States Cavalry: Capt. E. L. Munson, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, was executive officer to the chief surgeon of the Fifth Army Corps, and left on the steamer Olivette to the 24th to the 2Gthof Jime, and was in charge of outfitting transports for the reception of the wounded until July 10, when he left for the United States on the Breakwater; First Lieut. J. M. Kennedy, assistant surgeon, in charge of ambulance train of the Fifth Army Corps and in charge of the distribution of supplies and the transportation ol wounded and sick, from July 20 to August— I think he was relieved from that August 20, but I will get the date and send it to you; First Lieut. W. W. Quinton, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, with Battery A, Second Artillery; First Lieut. D. C. Howard, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, on duty with division hospital No. 2, and on steamer Olivette; Lieut. W. H. Wilson, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, with Battery K, First Artillery: First Lieut. T.J. Kirkpatrick, assistant surgeon. U. S. Army, with the Twenty-fourth United States Infantry. First Lieut. F. H. Stone, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, with the Sixteenth United States Infantry; First Lieut. P. C. Fauntleroy, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, with the Fourth United States Infantry, and division hospital No. 3 at Siboney; First Lieut. L. A. Fuller, assistant surgeon. U. S. Army, with the Tenth United States Cavalry; First Lieut. L. P. Smith, assistant surgeon, U. S. Army, on duty at division hospital No. 2, and hospital on steamer Olivette; that is all those. Q. After the battles of the 1st and 2d of July, how many regular officers were left with the regular regiments— any? A. Well, they kept their complement of regular officers so far as possible. I think that Lieutenant Stone, Lieutenant Kirkpatrick, and one other officer were detailed to assist at the first divisional hospital until the rush was over, and then they reported back to their regiments. Q. To what extent were the regular regiments supplied with the medical officers engaged on contracts? A. I can give you the names of those. Q. I don't want the names. It has been said that the regular regiments there had been supplied with doctors under contract, contract doctors, and in some cases two regiments were under the sole care of a single contract doctor. Please tell us in regard to those matters. A. With the Sixth Infantry was Major McCall, and with him was a contract 7833— VOL. t; U 3042 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. doctor, Dr. Marshall, a very accomplished man— making two with that regiment. When the rush of wounded came I directed Dr. Marshall to report for duty to the first divisional hospital. Dr. Calhoun was a contract surgeon with the Fourth United States Infantry, which was rendered necessary by Major Stephenson being relieved from duty with the Fourth Infantry just before the expedition sailed for Tampa. Dr. —I think I had better go to my list. [Does so.] Dr. Wilfred Turnbull was on duty as acting surgeon with the battalion of the United States engineers. Dr. F. E. Menocal, assistant surgeon U. S. Army, Second Unite. I States Cavalry, then with the Sixth United States Cavalry, and First United States Infantry. He was assigned to the First Cavalry, and later to the headtiuarters guard with the Fifth Army (Jorps, and he also worked among the Spanish refugees in taking care of the wounded and starving at that place. Acting Asst. Surg. J. M. Delgado was with the First United States Cavalry. It is my impres- sion he was there as an assistant with Dr. Heyl. Dr. Morino De La Torrie, an acting assistant surgeon, was with the Tenth United States Infantry as an assist- ant to Maj. Samuel Q. Robinson, the surgeon of the regiment, afterwards brigade surgeon, and later division surgeon; on the Olircfic for part of the time. Acting Asst. Surg. J. A. Tabor with the Eighth United States Infantry. Dr. T. R. Marshall, he was assigned to the Sixth United States Infantry, divisional hospital No. 1, and among the refugees and Spanish prisoners at El Caney; Dr. F. J. Comb, he was assigned to divisional hospital No. 1 and the yellow-fever hospi- tal at corps headquarters: Dr. Arthur Jordon, with the Second United States Cav- alry: Dr. A. E. Winter; Dr. Thomas Abbey, with the Twentieth United States Infantry: Dr. Bragg, with the Third United States Infantry. But each of these two last regiments, if I remember rightly, had a regular officer. It is my impres- sion that Dr. Ives was the regular officer of the Second Infantry. About the Third Infantry I can not remember. Dr. R. N. Pitts was assigned to the First United States Infantry, first as an assistant to Captain Gandy, and later on he had charge of the regiment. Dr. Hamilton P. Jones was at first assigned, I think, to the Thirteenth Infantry as an assistant to the medical officer of that regiment. Later he went into the divisional hospital No. 1, and still later he was in charge of the yellow-fever hospital at Siboney. Dr. Echeverria was a Cuban assigned to Light Battery D, Fifth Artillery. He offered his services in Tampa, and was a most valuable man in the yellow-fever hospital at Siboney. Dr. 11. Yy\ Danforth, assigned to the Ninth United States Cavalry, was assigned as an assistant to Major Harris, and he was mortally wounded at Bloody Bend —died from his wound- while carrying to that station an armful of first-aid packets picked up under the fire of the enemy. Dr. W. E. Parker, at divisional hospitals Nos. 2 and 3, and on yellow-fever service at Siboney and on steamer Olivette. Dr. B. C. Leonardi was with the Ninth United States Cavalry as an assistant; Dr. William P. Lawrence, with Battery G of the Fourth Artillery and with the yellow-fever hospital at Siboney. I think that covers it. Q. At the time of the battles of the 1st and 3d of July, had you a sufficient num- ber of officers to answer the requirements? A. I think, sir, that we had. Of course, I would have liked to have had ;J to a regiment; but I did not have them, and we got along very well. In fact, the mass of the wounded were taken care of and their wounds dressed, and they were made as comfortable as circumstances would iiermit within the forty-eight hours following the battle. Q. In your judgment, was the expedition sufficiently supplied with medical officers, ha\ ing in prospect the battle or battles and such sickness as you would naturally look for in the southern part of Cuba in midsummer? A. We had 71. By General Beaver: Q. That was over 4 to a thousand men? MAJ. BKNJAMIN F. POPE. 3043 A. Yes, sir; I would like to have had at least 96 at that time. By Dr. Conxkr: Q. Do you think there was any difficulty in getting medical otticerij at that time? A. That I do not know, because it was away from, my observation. I asked the Surgeon-General for 17 additional officers, and he said he wouhl send ihein to me. iind I was instructed to make contracts with valuable men, such as Cubans, whom i could get in Tanii)a. I got (i or 7 of the iitmost value to the expedition. Otheis wi're sent to me from various points of the South, and I thhik I can say that nearly all of them were serviceal)le and valuable men to the corps. I would like to have had about 'JO more of the same stripe when we sailed, but I think I had about the number of officers brigaded by the'War Department at that time. I did want at least 2 medical officers to each regiment, but I understood it was the i)olicy of the War Department to have only 1 . Q. Was that because it had lieen for a long time customary in the. department to have one surgeon to a regiment, (jr because they thought they were not able to get sufficient additional men? A. I think it was a combination of those reasons. C^. If it is a fact that medical men could have been obtained in sufficient num- bers, would it have been wise to secui-e the services of such men before starting on an expedition of that sort? A. I think it would, sir. I was authorized, as chief medical officer of the Fifth Army Corps, to make a contract with medical gentlemen; but in each case I was 1 equired to submit the name to the Surgeon-General at Washington for his action and approval. Under that authority I was able to secure the appointment of six valuable men, who proved very valuable indeed. C^. Your field was limited? A. Limited to Tampa. Q. Would it not have been possible to have made the selection from the country at large, here at Washington, rather than leave it to you? A. I do not think the matter was left to me; I was working only that part of the territory. Q. Do you know how many medical officers were drawn from the Gulf States? A. I do not know. By Governor Woodhury: Q. Do you think you should have had more than these medical officers, or did you have trouble in getting them? A. 1 was satisfied I had the complement reriuired by the War Department order, and I think I was verv nearly up to the complement. I would liked to have had more, and when I got into Cuba I asked General Shatter to ask for 40 more medical officers. Q. What I wanted to ascertain, Major, was this: Whether at the time you desired more, or whether that is what you think now? A. That is what 1 think now. At the time I thought I had enough and that the experience of the War Department was better than my single experience, and at the time I had a complement, and I thought I had enough to meet the conditions that might arise. By Dr. Conner: Q. Is it customary. Major, to consider the regulations existing in time of peace sufficient to govern in time of war? A. No, sir. Q. It is one medical officer when the parts of the regiment are together'. A. Yes, sir. o0-44 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Is one regimental officer sufficient to take care of one-lialf a regiment of full streugth in time of war? A, No, sir; during peace our regiments are comparatively small: we only had 350 sometimes in a regiment. That would be a battalion under the new organiza- tion. Q. Now, when it became necessary to supply medical officers to the regiments, why was it that the old rule of one man to a regiment was still adhered to? A. I can not tell, sir, unless it was that there was not enough to go around. By General Beaver: (^. Or was it because some of the regiments were smaller? A. Some of them were of 100 men only. Q, No medical officer can properly take care of 300 men in time of war? A. No, sir; that is my experience. By Dr. Conner: Q. Why did not the Medical Department put enough in the tiekl to supply all the wants? A. Are you speaking now of the Fifth Army Corps? Q. No, sir; but generally. A. Well, really, sir, I do not know. We had enough regular officers to have supplied the Fifth Army Corps with twice the number of regular medical offi- cers very easily. I suppose they were retained for the purpose of forming a nucleus of the medical department of the large army which must be raised. They were the only experienced men the United States could get hold of. Q. Up to the time of your leaving Santiago was there a sufficient number of medical officers to answer all reciuirements? A. In Santiago? Q. In Cuba, ixnder your command. A. There Avas not, sir, after the fever broke out: but they commenced to come in first with the steamer RcJicf. and after we captured the city there were quite a number came in on transports and reported to me for duty. I can not recollect now the exact number. The roster which I kept up to the 23d day of July was turned over to the officer who succeeded me, and he, I think, is now in Santiago; but it seems to me that they were pouring them in as fast as they could get them, and they appeared to be a valuable lot of medical officers. Q. Was the number of incoming men in excess of the number of those who were breaking down? A. Well, I do not think it did any more than keep up with those who became unable to perform duty on account of sickness. Q. Then, practically, you were iu no better shape at the end than at the begin- ning as respects number? A. 1 think we were, sir, because our medical officers held up wonderfully well. and those unable to do any duty were very small. They were sick, but they kept at it as well as they could; but they say a sick physician's judgment is not wholly reliable. Q. Now, was it understood before the expedition started that it was probable there would be both fighting and sickness from the climatic conditions existing? A. I am inclined to think we did not look for a very large number of wounded. We had gotten a report from the Navy that 10,000 men in forty-eight hours could take the forts around Santiago and in less than a week we would be back on our transjtorts and going home. Q. Did that prove to be the fact? A. No, sir; we got our belly full of fight on the very first day we struck it. Q. You expected that in the case of the troops not getting away in a week there would be considerable sickness there? MA.T. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3045 A. I expected we would be able to stand it about a month with good luck, and nearly all military men count on luck largely in their expeditions. The facts proved that the time was a little too long; we caught the fevers before the month was up. I had great hopes that we would get away without yellow fever from the fact that experienced Cuban phj'sicians informed me that yellow fever was extremely rare in the country and that it was only to be apprehended in the cities, and I was informed we would not enter Santiago and that we might reason- ably expect to escape yellow fevers. He said, " You might catch malarial fevers," but not unless we had to do very heavy intrenching. But the iight of the 1st of .1 nly was followed by a most laborious amount of trench digging. The whole army corps was digging that pestiferous soil and then lying in or near their trenches until the capitulation, and there is where the most of the sickness came from, trench fever. It was the same as occurred in Chickahominy and at the siege of Richmond and around there. The Spanish suffered from trench fever also. In the city of Santiago 1 saw. lying in their beds, 2,000 Spaniards with the same sort of fever we had. Yellow fever had not got many of them; there they are practi- cally immune. Q. Are we to suppose that the military authorities based their calculations on a slight and trifling service being necessary to do their work and that they would get right out promptly? A. I think not. sir. The number of medical officers was based on the view of the War Departm-^nt at that time. Q. In point of fact, did you have a sufficient number of medical officers when you left to do the work tlnjroughly and efficiently, as it should have been done? A. At the time the expedition left Tampa I felt we could get along with what we had. I would have felt l)etter if I could have had a few more officers there. I would have liked to have had 20 with every military organization. Then if an officer felt sick or I desired to bring more, I would not deprive any military organization of its medical officer. Q. Did you have sulficient to thoroughly and properly care for the wounded and sick that were there? A. No, sir; not for the sick. We had too great sickness Q. What arrangements were made for the removal of the sick from Cuba? A. By the War Department— I don't know. An idea I had in view, if no other arrangements were made by the War Department, was to utilize the transports on their return to the United States for the purpose of carrying convalescents and those able to stand the trip. The seriously ill I hoped to be able to keep in Cuba until they recovered so as to be able to travel without danger to health or life. Q. How soon did you begin to transport the sick to the North— not the wounded, but the sick. A. I think the first sick were those taken off the Olivette and placed on the steamer Iroquois or Breakwater, and they were transported to the North, I think, about July 9, to the best of my knowledge. Later, transports were sent out for the sick, but I have lost track of them. I know there were seven or eight trans- ports loaded with sick that went to the North during the month of July. q. What orders were issued by your office respecting the preparation of these transports and the reception of .sick on them? A. At the time I was at the headquarters of the army corps I gave general instructions to Major Le Garde, who was at Siboney and had general charge of affairs at that point, to see that the transports used for the sick were suitable for the purpose and that they were provided with such medical stores and medical officers as he could spare from his hospital. That was a general order, and I think it was transmitted to me by telephone from corps headquarters. Nearly all our communications there were by telephone. As we had no mail facilities, nor any means for sending written orders back and forward from Siboney to corps head- 3046 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. quarters, I trusted nearly everything to verbal directions given over the telephone line. Q. At the time yon were in charge of the matter, was any medical officer ap- pointed to inspect these transports to see that they were properly equipped? A. While I was in Santiago I endeavored to inspect — this was about the 20th of July — the transports myself. I think that Assistant Surgeon Ireland made the inspections at Siboney: but I left that matter with Major La Garde. I do not recollect that up to the time I was relieved I designated any special officer for that purpose, as I tried to do the work myself as well as possible. Q. Speaking generally, were the transports properly prepared for the reception of sick and wounded, principally the sick, and sufficiently provided with medi- cines and medical stores, to meet the ordinary requirements of a four or five daj^s' trip north? A. That work was being done at Siboney, and the reports I received from there from Major La Garde in regard to the eiiuipment of these transports were satis- factory to me. By using cabin space only, and sending but a few sick on the transports, I believed that they could be made comfortable for the sick, especially for those who were convalescent, and I tried to impress — as late as the 20th of Jialy — that convalescents only and not the seriously ill were to be sent. Q. At this time were the convalescents sufficiently recovered to expect that they could go on the travel rations? A. W'ell, I did not see the convalescents at Siboney, but I think that even for a well man that travel ration is hard fare, and 1 doubt very much that imless the travel ration is prepared by a skillful cook it could he made a proper diet for a sick man for any length of time. Q. Was there such an amount of hospital supplies, or could such an amount of proper food be oljtained from the Commissary Department at that time as would enable the officers sending these men north to be assured the material for a proper diet was on board the transport? A. 1 understood that the Jrogwo/.s^that was before I left to go to the front- was loaded with a large amount of commissary supplies which would answer every jiurpose of delicacies for the sick. These supplies, I understood, had been taken off and stored at Siboney and were open to purchase by the Medical Department for the benefit of the sick. That was the rule during peace, that our delicacies should be purchased by the hospitals for the use of the sick Q. Had these hospitals at this time any money for this i)urpose? A. Yes, sir. To the best of my recollection Major La Garde had nearly STOO with him. Three hundred dollars was sent to me, which I distributed to the party in charge of the First Division hospital; and I gave some to tlie volunteer regiments and also to the regular regiments for the pur]iose of purchasing delicacies from the Commissixry Department for the use of the sick. Q. As a matter of fact, were these commissary delicacies available at Siboney? A. I think they must have been, because we got some of them. Q. Was any rei)ort officially made to j'ou as to the preparation of these trans- ports for furnishing the necessary food and material? A. No, sir: except such verbal communication as I had with Major La Garde bj' telephone. Q. And did such communication lea;! you to l)elieve that those transports were being x>roperly fitted out for use by the sick, or convalescents at least? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you remember anything about the leaving of the transports Cuncho and Seneca? A. That was pretty near the end of my administration. I have often tried to reccdl the names of tlie vessels I inspected at the docks in Santiago with a view of MAJ. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3047 using them for transportation of the convalescents. At that time there were five vessels Ij'ing at the docks. I inspected them one afternoon and one morning; went over them carefully. They were discharging their cargoes onto the docks, and I was looking at them with a view of getting some transports to carry convalescents north. I now think the Concho was among that number. I was inspecting for the yellow fever among the crews. I found none there. I found the Concho in a dirty condition from the freight. She was discharging freight. I spoke to the captain and he said that in a very few hours with his powerful pumps he would be able to c^.ean his ship from one end to the other. I tasted of the water they had while I was on board and it tasted and smelled like the water I tasted on a dozen other transports, the Seguranx^a among them. It had that iieculiar odor due to a vege- table organism growing in the tanks. I had sent a telephone message to Major La Garde asking him if he could give me any room for the sick who were with the regiments, whom I desired to transfer at once to the hospitals. At that time the hospitals were crowded. We had no shelter for any more sick in the hospi- tals. He told me tliat if he could send north ITo convalescents he had, men able to take care of themselves, that he would have that number of beds vacant. I requested the general commanding for a steamer to carry these men north. He referred me to Colonel Humphrey, and I saw the colonel and asked what steamers I could have; and he said, "There are the Seneca and Concho; as soon as they are cleaned out and fitted up they go down to Siboney, and will do very well." By telephone I informed Major La Garde that the Seneca and Co»c/(o would come down, and to prepare the ship^, put his convalescents on there and send them north, and give me the beds and shelter I needed for the sick in, the trenches. At that time — I think that was about my last official act — I was pretty sick at the time and it is difficult for me to remember all that occurred — I think that was the 3'2d or 2?.d of July. Q. Were any medical officers detailed to go on these transports? A. That was left in the hands of Major La Garde, and he furnished them from a large number of officers he had at Siboney. Q. Did he have enough active and well men to spare two or three officers to go north on these transports? A. At the time I believed or I understood that he had one or two medical officers that could be spared to go on there; but I am not certain about that. He may have been shorthanded in the matter of officers at that time. Q. If it was the case that he had medical officers he could send north, were they well officers or convalescents? A. Most of them were convalescent. Q. Was it reported to you that these transports had been properly equipped; that is. supplied with a sufficient supply of medicines and the proper food materials for the trip? A. I can not recollect all that occurred now. That may have been reported to Major Havard, who succeeded me. Q. I think we understood from him that the Concho and Seneca were out before he took charge. A. That may have been so. I can not recollect that now. All that week is pretty much a blank to me. Q. If it was a fact that these transports went north unprovided with medicines, principally supplied with travel rations, and scarcely anything else— in fact, with nothing else but some meal gotten from a charitable organization there— if it is a fact that they went \\athout any medical officers but two or three convalescents, one of whom broke down after starting, and who did nothing, and another an inexperienced man, the third a representative of a charitable organization— that they went without any nurses or any means of caring for these sick, except as 3048 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. they cared for themselves— if these be facts, was the condition of the department at the time that transports started such that it was the best thing that could be done? A. I think more than likely that that was the best they could do at that time. My recollection is nearly everyone was sick; that by sending transports north we had lost a good many of our medical officers; that our Hospital Corps men could not be spared, as there were over 3,000 patients being nursed on the line and in the hospitals at that time, and from what I knew at the time and can recollect I do not believe we could have done much better. My only directions were that only convalescents should go, and by "convalescents '"it was understood that they were men who could take care of themselves and did not require nurses or physicians. Q. Was it or not said or thought that convalescents starting north were likely to have a return of their diseases as soon as the atmospheric conditions changed? A. I think that is the experience we have gained later. At that time I knew nothing of it. Q. As a matter of fact, when a man is thoroughly saturated with malarial germs, even though he is perfectly well, is it not a fact that if he goes north the fever will break out in a few days? A. Our experience is that. Q. Has it not been known to be the case for years? A. Many writers say so. In our peace establishment we have very little expe- rience with malaria fever. Malaria gave a very small retnrn at most of our posts; it had been practically eliminated, and I think I may say we had considered it a rather trifling disease which could be easily met with large doses of quinine con- tinued. I, for my own part, had no idea that the typical malaria, until I saw it. was such a persistent and such a deadly poisoji as it has proven itself to be. Q. Was there not in the service a sufficient number of officers familiar with the malaria of the Gulf Coast to know that it was a serious disease, and that if a man recovered it was an apparent, instead of real recovery, and that a transfer from a warm to a cold climate made it return, and that within a few days? Were there not officers in the service familiar with these facts? A. I do not know of any. I think jjerhaps the Surgeon- General himself was the only one who had knowledge of that fact by personal experience. Nearly all the older men who had had experience with these Southern fevers during the civil war had left the service. Q. If there were twenty officers in the corps who entered the service before I did, most of whom had served in the South during the war, was it not probable that they would have recollections of the conditions which followed when malaria patients, recovered from their ailment, directly were transferred to a northern climate? A. I think so. Q. Was it wise, if possible to prevent it, to let convalescents come north with- out proper medicines or hospital supplies or proper diet? A. No, sir; I do not think it; was wise, looking at it from my present stand point and from my experience with these fevers. At the time the great anxiety of all of the sick and the general concensus of the opinion of the medical officers of the Fifth Army Corps was that if you could only get north into cold weather these fevers would stop at once. I do not think any of us anticipated the explosion of malarial manifestations on their arrival north. Q. Did any such explosion take place within twelve hours, even, after leaving Santiago? A. I do not know. Q. Especially on the Concho, as the re])orts show? A. I have not seen these reports. MAJ. BENJAMIN. F. POPE. 3049 By General Dodge: Q. When the Concho and Seneca sailed, was not there a relief ship there with plenty of supplies? A. It is my impression that the Relief was there when those ships sailed, but I have not a very clear recollection. I think she was. Q. It has been stated that on a certain occasion, soon after the arrival of the Relief, application was made for medical supplies, and she was loaded to the guards with medical supplies, and it was stated that a small quantity of these was doled out, and that the officer in charge, upon being asked for others, made the remark that to get any more it would necessitate breaking into these stores, and that he, the officer in charge, did not want to do that. Was any such state- ment made to you? A. No, sir. Q. The statement is that Dr. Tomey made that remark when applied to for supplies. I asked you the question whether what was done was the best that could be done under the circumstances. A. When I made that answer I had forgotten the fact that the Relief wa.s there. She being in the harbor there with the ships, I can not say it was the best that could be done. By Dr. Conner: Q. Were the yellow-fever hospitals properly organized and administered at Siboney? A. The yellow-fever hospital was organized as soon as the yellow-fever cases were reported by Dr. Guiteras, who was there on the watch for it. TJie second hospital was organized by myself near corps headquarters and was placed under the charge of Dr. Hamilton P. Jones. At that time there was great doubt among the medical officers with the regiments as to what sort of fever we were dealing with. Some seemed to think that it was simply a thermic fever of short duration, lasting four or five days, with verj- high temperature; others. Dr. Jones among them, believed that many of these cases were a mild form of yellow fever. As soon as he clearly recognized yellow-fever cases I had some tents placed up three- quarters of a mile below the headquarters camp, across the creek, and to that point 1 transferred all the yellow-fever cases which he and Dr. Cohen had diagnosed as such. The sick were brought in from the front and placed in a detached camp and there inspected. Those having yellow fever I detained at the hospital in charge of Dr. Jones. Those having other fevers I placed in ambu- lances and shijjped to Siboney, very often in wagons. When we did not have wagons enough — but at that time the rush was not so great but that the ambu- lances could carry them. Dr. Jones's hospital had. up to the time I was taken ill, received about 125 yellow-fever cases, and out of that number, to the best of my recollection, there were 3.5 deaths. The hospital at Siboney, the yellow-fever hospital, was constantly increasing in size; and patients I sent down, whom I believed to be not yellow-fever cases, were on their arrival very often declared to be cases of yellow fever. And the number grew until finally the whole of the hos- pital at Siboney was declared to be a yellow-fever hospital, and the precautions to be taken in regard to the treatment of the cases were carried out with all the fever cases there occurring. That was after the '2:]d of July, to the best of my recol- lection. Q. During the time you were familiar with these hospitals, were they properly administered, and were the medical officers sufficient, and were they competent to take care of the sick, and did they? A. At the Siboney hospital, I should say, from all the information T gained— I should say, " Yes." At the smaller hospitals, near th old Fifth Army Corps head- quarters, I had two medical-corps officers who we: ? ully capable to take charge 3050 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. of the yellow-fever cases. I later sent them an assistant, whose name I can urt now recollect. At the first of these hospitals I sent some Cuban soldiers, who had been recommended to me by a Cuban officer as being experienced nurses in yellow fever. I think I sent fifteen. They only stayed a few days, however. They tired of the work, and shortly they left. Then it became necessary for me to send them Hospital Corps men. I gathered what Hospital Corps men I could find from among the volunteer regiments, and they went there and labored among the sick- well, for a number of weeks— many of them taking the disease themselves. After the corps headquarters moved into the city of Santiago, I designated Surgeon Ives to take supervision of the detention camp hospital, which, prior to that, had been under the charge of Major Crampton, and also to have supervision of the yellow- fever hospital of Dr. .Tones. That was one of my last official acts. I have every reason to lielieve they took satisfactory charge of these hospitals, but I have never heard since. Q. Were any yellow-fever nurses sent to you from the north? A. That was after I was taken ill. I think they came on the 25th. Q. Did they prove satisfactory? A. I think the colored women did. I would like to say something about the Relief. On the 8th day of July, or the night of the .Sth day of July, I was in my tent, or under my shelter, in a state of great despondency. Lieutenant Kennedy came and told me that Major La Garde had sent all the supplies we had; that we were out of medicines, and had scraped the bottom of the barrel. I had expected the Relief day after day for a week, praying she might come in. An orderly came to me in the dark and stated I was wanted at the telephone. I stumbled through the long grass and got down there, and by the dim light of a candle I put the receiver to my ear and said, "Hello, who is that?" The answer came from Dr. Torney, and he said, '• It is Torney." Then he said, "The Relief is in with 700 tonsof sup- plies on board;" and, gentlemen, I felt as though 700 tons had been taken off my head and brain at that minute. I told him to get them out as quickly as possible, and he said, ' ' The weather is rough ;" and I said. " I will send down Lieutenant Ken- nedy and an ambulance as soon as you can land them, and we will bring them to the front as fast as we can." I think it was two or three days before 1 was told the supplies were on shore and that I could send Kennedy with the ambulances for them. He went down and they commenced to come in — mattresses, blankets, malted milk, and beef extract, condensed milk— they all commenced rolling up. Medicines came. I sent word to the division surgeons to let me know what they wanted, and I sent an ambulance out every morning with what we had, and we would push them to the front. Lieutenant Kennedy every morning had an ambu- lance with medicines and food come up, and it was sent out to the division surgeons at the points designated, with the understanding that they were to be distributed to the brigades and regiments, and division surgeons. "Well," I said to the com- manding general, " W^e are all right now; we have got them now. Theyare in." What we needed was drugs. I know she was loaded to the guards with suigical materials and beds and blankets and everything of that kind, but the question struck me, Did she have drugs— sufficient drugs? About the 20th day of July Lieutenant Kennedy said to me, "The drugs are getting short," and I said, " For God's sake, you don't mean that 700 tons are gone between the 7th day of July and the 20th of July! " He said, '• That is it. The drugs are going, and they are nearly gone." Well, I collapsed. As soon as I could get word to Major Havard I told him the situation, and I told him to telegraph at once the condition, and he cabled to the Surgeon-General for supplies. Now, I never have known to this day whether these drugs were on the Relief or not, but I know we pushe 1 them to the front as fast as they came to us; and how it was we managed to get rid of all that stock between the Sth of July and the 20th, or I will say the 2;)d of J uly, I can not say. MA.T. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3051 By General Dodge: Q. Did yoti haul up everything in an ambulance? A. I asked for six wagons to go down, and I got three; and I do not think the three came up filled. By General McCooK: Q. Why did not Captain Plunimer give you the six wagons? A. I do not know. By Colonel SEXTO^": Q. As a matter of fact, you did not have any such amount of drugs? A. I do not know. Q. But you could not have hauled those? A. In regard to Captaiii Plummer, he furnished all the wagons I wanted. The three may have gone down, that being all he had. Plummer was mighty good; he furnished the wagons I asked for, General. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was it ever reported to you, officially or otherwise, that these drugs on the Relief were not landed, but carried Ijack? A. No. sir; I never heard of that. I understood there was a pile of supplies there as big as a house that came up. That I was informed by Lieutenant Kennedy: and I thought there was any quantity of drugs, as the Surgeon-General informed me the Relief would bring supplies ample for three months. Q. Was there any receiving officer there who would have known what was landed? A. Yes. sir. Q. Who was there, sir? A. It is my impression that Dr. William H. Parker can give yoit the information on that i)oint. C^. Of New Orleans? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he ever state to you that these drugs were landed? A. No, sir; he made no official report on that matter. Q. Now, as respects the condition after you went into Santiago, I want to ask you as to the Medical Department and the so-called Red Cross Association after Santiago was captured and the State of Texas came into the stream. A. Well, the relations appeared to me to be of the most cordial nature. They landed their sxipidies. One ot the last things I saw there was a largo amount of sujiplies apparently for the reconcentrados. They were issuing them to medical officers who applied for them and to anyone. They gave us most valuable assist- ance from my first entry into Cuba until I was relieved from duty. Q. Did their stores materially supplement those provided by the Medical Depart- ment? A. I can not teH you to what extent; but it is my belief that for food supplies in the way of malted milk, farina, and things of that kind they did supplement our supplies until ours came in after the capture of Santiago, and then I remember a large storehouse in Santiago belonging to the Medical Department, which appeareil to be loaded with everything anybody could use. That was probably in the middle of August. Q. Looking back at the expedition to Cuba as you observed the medical condi- tions, do you or do you not think it wise tliat female nurses should accompany a moving army? A. Not a moving army. Q. Would it or not have been advantageous to have nurses to put in the yellow- 3052 INVESTIGATION OF C'ONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. fever hospital — Dr. Wood's hospital and the yellow-fever hospital near your head- quarters? A. At Siboney I think it would. At the yellow-fever hospital near corps head- quarters, with a hardy lot of female nurses— I do not mean lady nurses, but such as I saw in the First Division hospital — I think their services were invaluable. Q. By the First Division hospital, what hospital do you mean? Dr. Wood's hospital? A. Yes, sir. He did not have the First Division hospital at that time, but his hospital was reorganized and was placed back on a hill, and was i^laced under the command of MaJ. Samuel Q. Robinson, and we got our tents and put them up and got our female nurses. Q. From the North or Santiago? A. All from the United States. We had an excellent corps of medical men, most immune surgeons and physicians in tliat hospital; and I have talked with Dr. Uoljinson about them, and he said they did good work. Most of them were colored women. Q. Was it right to care for these female nurses where they were, and would it have been jjossible? A. No, sir; they had to rough it. Q. But I mean such care as would protect them properly and seciire to them the privileges which belong to women? A. With an ample supply of tents I do not see why there should not be facilities for privacy, but at that time the yellow-fever hospital under Dr. Jones had l)een broken up and absorbed with the hospital at Siboney. Q. The question is, would it be advisable to have female nurses moved witli the army, and have them at the base hospital? Of course they can not move with tlie army at the front. What is the opinion you have on that subject? A. I think at the base hospital they would be very valuable wherever the army might be; but at the same time I think that a well-organized Hospital Corps, well- instructed men, can be better disciplined and more easily handled than the female nurses. There ai*e many things you can say and do to a man that you can not do to a woman. Q. Is it at all likely, do you think, in the Army of the United States, to so train male nurses that they will be good nurses? A. If they stay in the service long enough, it can be done. My experience in the Regular Army with men who have been in the service one or two years is that they are the most admirable lot of men and able to perform all the functions of a trained nurse, and I would like to say a course of training was given to all our Hospital Corps men which fully qualified them to perform the duties of the trained nurse. That was in addition to the so-called Hospital Corps drill; and I have been able to furnish several institutions with men coming from the Hospital Corps in the Army. Q. Is it possible at any army post to train a male nui'se so that he will be able to take proper care of a case of typhoid fever or any other serious illness? A. Yes, sir; in the same way you could to the women. Q. The opportunities, however, in the army hospitals in time of peace are very limited? A. In time of peace we do not have many cases of those fevers you refer to. Q. Therefore you can not instruct? A. Only by verbal instructions and lectures and giving them analogous cases. By General Wilson: Q. From tlie time you arrived at Santiago up to the time the hospital-relief steamer brought the stores you received I understand more or less assistance was received from the Red Cross. Had it not been for the Red Cross would you have been able to go along without any ti-ouble and save disasters and .sickness, etc., or was their assistance absolutely necessary? MAJ. BENJAMIN F. POPE. 3053 A. What I personally saw of the Red Cross was at Major Wood's hospital, which was the most advanced hospital there. Miss Barton appeared after the battle, put up her tent, started her little cooking ovens. I think she had two or three meat broths that she was preparing, and they furnished the wounded who were there with nourishing drinks; and the same work was being done at the hospitals with such stores as Major Wood had on hand. I also superintended a cook kettle, had two men at it, furnishing as good a soup as we could make from that. We would have been very unwilling to have missed the services of the Red Cross, and we welcomed their supplies and relief. It was timely, and kindly given. We would have welcomed relief from anyone — Red Cross or others. I think, although we had a large amount of beef extract, which is noted on the supply table, and a good deal of condensed milk, that we did not have the time to gather in from the com- missary all that we needed in the way of those special delicacies. I suppose we could have gotten along without them, but we certainlj^ were most delighted to have their assistance. The soldiers, especially those of the Regular Army, do not expect a great deal beyond what is allowed by regulations, and all that they got from the Red Cross was rec-eived with great gratitude. Q. Then your answer to my direct question is that you could have gotten along without them? A. Yes; I think we could, for a while at least. Q. Well, you have ailded a proviso. The cpiestion to which I want an answer is whether from the time j'ou arrived at Santiago until the time of the arrival of the relief hospital steamer, whether the supplies in your charge were sufficient to take care of that army without the assistance of the Red Cross? A. 1 think it was, sir. By Colonel Sexton: Q. You testified that you were taking along supplies for an army of 17.000 men for thirty days under ordinary emergencies? A. Surgical supplies— that was with the regiments. I believed I had enough for the medical supplies also. Q. As a matter of fact, how long did the medical supplies last you? A. Well, we were about the bottom of them on the yth of July, as far as 1 know. General Dodge : Had you landed then all you took with you? The Witness. No, sir; the regimental supplies, which were in the transports Q, I understood your explanation this morning. After the failure to get the regimental supplies aboard, I understood you said you had sufficient to last that army thirty days? A. I believed that. We had enough drugs I thought with the regiments, but we did not get hold of the regiments' drugs. We got only one-third of them. Q. Now, wasn't it well understood when our army went to Cuba that there was to be a great amount of sickness there and an unusual amount of yellow fever and other fevers? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you evidently did not take enough supplies to last an army of 17,000 men for thirty days? A. I intended to state for ordinary conditions. Q. It think you said for ordinary emergencies, and you should have said ex- traordinary conditions. Did you ever have a full supply of drugs while there to answer all your purposes? A. No, sir. Q. Why could not medical supplies be delivered there, when you only needed a small quantity of drugs, as well as the commissary supplies? A. I see no reason, for they were on the vessels. Q. Were they not as obtainable as commissary supplies? They were in the United States? 3054 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes. sir. Q. Who was to blame if they were not to be had? A, AH of our supplies are furnished by the medical supply officers in New York, St. Louis, and San Francisco. There is where most of the purchasint< is done. Q. Why could tliey not have anticipated wants as well as the Commissary and Quartermaster's Departments? A. I think they could. I think that after the city was open and the ships got into the city— I know that large amounts of medical supplies were poured into .San- tiago. Q. And you purchased some in Santiago? A. There were purchases in Santiago. Q. Which practically admitted that you did not take proper supplies with you? A. We were out, and Major Havard at the time I informed him that the supply of drugs on the Relief had l)een exhausted he at once began purchasing at Santi- ago to tide him over until they could arrive from the United States. Q. That was not a good market to purchase in. You certainly should have been able to sell them instead of buying from them if there had been proper foresight on the part of our Medical Department. As a matter of fact, if the relief societies had not been there jou would have been awamped? A. I did not know they furnished medicines. Q. Well, sick food? A. The hospital stores, according to the supply table, consist of beef extract, tea, condensed milk, and beef and meal, together with whisky and brandy; and that, to the best of my recollection, is the list of hospital stores, so called. Anything outside or that we are supposed to purchase in the markets where we are. That was the system under which we worked before the war was declared. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Please state to what extent you and your department received the support of the commanding general of that expedition. A. I think the commanding general always listened to my views and gave me every support which military conditions would permit. In the formation of my division hospitals he promulgated an order forming them; also my' ambulance trains and Hospital Corps companies. In the institution of sanitary regulations he also promulgated the order; and I do not know of any instance where he failed to support me. By General Dodge: Q. There has been a good deal of testimony here in relation to the Quarter- master's Department— its failure to support the Medical Department at Siboney and Dai(iuiri. Were you in communication with Colonel Humphrey all the time? A. No, sir ; I rarely saw Colonel Humphrey. Occasionally he came to the corps head{iuarters to consult with the commanding general, but 1 had very little communication with him. Q. Did you have occasion to make reiiuests of him for the landing of your sup- plies or for any other duty— for the transportation of supplies or any other duty of the Quartermaster's Department; and if so, what was the result of those appli- cations? A. Usually my applications were made to the depot (luartermaster. Q. Who was that? A. At Siboney? Q. Yes. A. I think that they changed. For a time it was Lieutenant Roudiez, and for a time it was Major Jacobs, and usually those requests were made by my officers at MAJ. BENJAJMIN F. POPE. 3055 my direction. My personal requests— I can not recall now; I do not think they were very many — often were in writing, addressed to the quartermaster. I do not know even who was in charge. {^. Did they send transportation which you requested from Captain PlummerV A. Yes, sir. Q. Did your officer at Siboney make complaint that the (luartermaster's department wonld not comply with your requests? A. These complaints came in to me rather late and usually came to me through my supply officer, Lieutenant Kennedy. He informed me that we were getting off very few of the medical and surgical chests and that there was great difficulty in getting the cooperation of the (luartermaster's department in removing them. I had a personal experience with them which satisfied me that we had to help our- selves. In removing Major La Garde's hospital from the steamer Saratoga I got some boats from the ship, and Major La Garde had loaded them with liis hospital supplies, when alongside of her came the Laura, which belonged to the quarter- master's department. An officer, whom I understood represented the (piarter- master's de])artment, was on board. I asked him to assist me in getting that hospital ashore by meansof his lighter. He said, '• I can not do it." I said, " The hospital will take very little room on your lighter," and I begged him to let the hospital go on that; and he said, " No, sir; it can't be done." 1 said. " Will yoa obey an order from the commanding general?" He said, •' Yes; if I get it in writ- ing."' After a while I was able to get a boat and catch the Serompt as circumstances would permit. As soon as the city was opened and ships could get in, the doctors commenced to come. No trouble was had at all. By General McCook : Q. How was it at Tampa before you left? Was the same zeal displayed there before you sailed in securing you doctors? A. I think we had what was required by the schedule of the War Department in the Fifth Army Corps. The volunteer regiments had their full complement of three doctors to a regiment, and they had a good outfit of Hospital Corps men in every regiment. DR. UKBEN SINCLAIR BIRD. 3057 i^The lollowing lettex* gives the data referred to in the foregoing testimony:] United States Barracks, Columbus, Ohio, December 16, ISOS. To ilie President of the War luvestigatioit Commission, Washington, D. C. Sik: With yoiir kind permission I would like to add the following to my testi- mony given before you on the 14th instant: Just as I left Siboney to go to the front with the headquarters staff I directed Maj. Ogdcn Rafferty, surgeon, United States Volunteers, to act as my representa- tive in the distribution of the supplies I had landed from the Segnrant^a , and also in trying to get the regimental chests, etc. , from the transports and to use my authority and do everything in his power to accomplish that result. 1 told him to apply to Major Jacobs and Lieutenant Roudiez, as I understood they were the officers directly engaged in unloading the transports, and it was either through him or Captain Munson or, later, Lieutenant Kennedy that my applications for assistance in getting supplies off the boats were made. I did not see the quartermaster's officers personally, as my answer to one of the last questions given me might imply. I had no opportunity to go cither to Sibo- ney or Dai(iuiri and was obliged to leave the matter in the hands of my officers. Very respectfully, . B. F. Pope, Major and Surgeon, United States Army. Washington, D. C, December U, 1S08, TESTIMONY OF DR. URBEN SINCLAIR BIRD. Dr. Ukben Sinclair Bird then appeared before the commission, and the presi- dent thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had any objections to being sworn, and rephed that he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By Dr. Conner: Q. Where is your place of residence? A. Tampa, Fla. Q. Where were you on duty during the war with Spain? A. I was on duty at Tampa, on board the transport Hudson and on board the transport Seneca. Q. Doctor, will you be kind enough to tell us at what time you were ordered to go on board the Seneca and where? A. The day after the Hudson arrived at Siboney, Cuba. Q. You v/ent down on the Hudson and returned at once on the Seneca? A^ "Vgs sii* q. Were you notified at the time of the receipt of your orders what the nature of your duties would be on the SemwJ A. I was. Q. And what were the orders you received? A. That I was to be in charge of the convalescent sick and wounded returnmg from Cuba. Q. The date of this was about what? A. You will have to give me a little time, as I have no notes. Q. Well, we will pass that just now. You were told you would take charge of how many convalescents? A. At first 150. 7833— VOL. <5 42 3058 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. Were these oi'ders changed so that you would have to take charge of a larger number? A. Changed so that I would take charge of a less number. Q. You did take charge of how many? A. Seventy-five. Q. Was that all the passengers on the Seneca? A. That is all under our control. There were others under the commissary's charge. Q. Were you directed to take medical charge of that shij)? A. I was. Q. What orders were given you as respects the fitting of her up for the recep- tion of convalescents? A. I was told supplies would be provided for, and we would only have to take charge. Q. By whom was the siipply to be provided? A. The ordinary travel ration on the return made out by Dr. Parker, and the other from the Relief on retiuisition. Q. Were all the supplies on board the vessel when you got on board? A. They were not. I got them from the Relief on requisition. Q. Did you make application definitely for supplies, or did you simply say you had come for the supiilies that had been prepared for her? A. 1 was told to go there, and Major Torney asked what I wanted, and I told him, and he said he wished he was in position to give us all we wanted, but he said that under the conditions, as supplies in his cargo were not broken, he did not know what he could do. Q. What did you have there? A. We were short of delicacies of all kinds. Q. Did you have a sufBcient (juantity of medicines to answer all necessary medical purposes? A. We did. Q. Then it was simply with reference to the diet that the shortage existed? A. We had plenty of food materials for the men. Q. For sick men? A. We had a reasonable quantity. The shortage was made up by the Red Cross ship. They sent suflticieut for use. Q. Did you make application to the Red Cross? A. I did not. One of the Red Cross nurses got it for us. Q. Do you remember her name? A. Miss Jennings. Q. Did she get these before or after you got the supplies from the Relief 1^ A. After. Q. Supplementing what had been sent by the Relief'? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, after you started you found you had how many sick men? A. We had aboiit seventy-five, which were under our care, and then after the ship had started a good deal of sickness broke out among those not sick and with whom we had nothing to do unless they got sick — that is, people under the C^uar- termaster's Department. Q. Had any measures been taken by you or anyone else for any peo])le that might get sick? A. Not that I know of. Q. Were yoti sufficiently and properly supplied with food for the seventy-five men you had? A. We were. Q. What was the cause of the complaint? DR. URBEN SINCLAIR BIRD. 3051) A. There was cause for complaint, and the cause was in the condition of the ship itself. Q. What was the condition of the ship? A. It was simply a transport, and there was no room to get seventy-five sick men in the cabin, and the only space was in the ordinary bunks which the troops used going down. Q. Were there any officers or civilians on board? A. Yes, sir. Q. State how many. A. One hundred and thirty-five people aboard altogether. Q. That would leave about sixty people included among those going under the charge of the (Quartermaster's Department. How many officers were there, or how many passengers, how many newspaper reporters, how many men, in other words, who were not sick who did not belong to the Army as soldiers or quarter- master "s employees? A. I am unable to state that. Q. Was there a considerable number of these? A. People who came on the authority of the Quartermaster's Department I had nothing to do with, and I do not know the exact number. Q. You state there were not stateroom accommodations enough for the sick. Now, I want to find out whether or not there were staterooms occupied by news- paper men. etc., who were not entitled to them. A. There were such. Q. When you found your .sick were not being accommodated, did you ask any of these men to vacate these places? A. Yes, sir; and in the great majority of cases they did. Q. Were there any exceptions? A. Yes, sir; in the case of some foreign attaches. Q. Who were they? Count them without naming them. A. As I remember, there were about seven altogether: there might have been one more. Q. Did each one of them occupy staterooms? A. I think most of them did, singly or together. Q. Did any of these foreign attaches refuse to give up his stateroom? A. Yes, sir; 1 remember one. Q. Who was that one? A. The Turkish general. Q. How many staterooms more than you had would have been required to accommodate your sick? A. At least twice as many as we had. Q. Did the sick materially suffer because they were not in staterooms? A. Not to any material extent. Q. Were they in bunks or on floors? A. In bunks. Q. Was the air in between decks, where these bunks were, in fair condition? A. Yes, sir; everything was open. There was a breeze through there all the time. Q. Were these bunks prepared for the accommodation of sick men? A. No, sir; the bunks were simitly beds with slats and nothing else, and the first men were sent with only the clothing tliey had on on l)oard— with, say, underdrawers or nightshirt— and we had nothing to give them. Q. Where did they come from? A. From the hospitals. Q. Was any explanation made? A. The explanation was that the Seneca contained a large number of supplies 3060 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. which belonged to a regiment which went down on the first expedition, and it was the understanding that our men would use them; but when we got on board, there was an officer in charge of those, and he would not give them out. Q. Who was this officer? A. I declare I don't know his name. Q. Do you know what command he belonged to? A. He belonged to Colonel Van Horn's, and this gentleman was a major in the Quartermaster's Department. Q. Did you get blankets for the sick? A. Not in the sense of having the free use of them. We got consent for our men to use them by piling them together without undoing the rolls, but the next day we got some on the Relief. Q. The night they did not have the blankets the ship was not in motion? A. No, sir; not for several days. Then we got everything from the Relief. Major Torney sent all he could give us, which was simply blankets. Q. Was each man properly protected with blankets, or were some simply lying on the slats? A. 1 think not all. Q. Why were not more secured? A. Major Torney, as I understood, sent all he had, and the Relief was lying a long distance from us. and I had no opportunity to get to her other than this time. Q. Did you apply for transportation to take you to the Relief'/ A. There was only one boat for the use of ourselves and the officers in command of that boat, and I had commands for her to take me but once. Q. Were there a sufficient number of men on your ship to make more than one boat's crew? A. I could not say. Q. Was this major yovi spoke of the ranking officer? A. Colonel Van Horn was the senior officer. Q. Did he take any action? A. He sided with the major. Q. Did you ask the colonel for them? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he still refused? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it possible for you to get anything for these men? A. No, sir. Q. Did you make application to anyone in authority for clothing for these men? A. We stated the case to the hospital officer in charge of the reserve hospital at Siboney. Q. Who was in charge there? A. Major La Garde. Q. What did he do? A. He sent everything he could get. Q. Did ho or anyone else make application for clothing for these men? A. Not BO far as I know. Q. Was it iinderstood by you that men having practically no clothing but the clothing thL'y were in would probably have trouble coming north in the change of climate? A. We did not anticipate that, as it was summer. Q. Isn't that to be anticipated? A. Not sufficiently to injure health. Q. Did these men suffer for want of clothing on the way up? A. No. sir. Those who could not be accommodated— in the cases where there was si^ecial sickness to amount to anything we put them in the staterooms and DR. URBEN SINCLAIR BIRD. 30G1 on cushions we liad found there and around the shij). Men who were able to be up and about had to lie in the bunks. Q. Did the men without staterooms who had to lie in bunks suffer because of having to lie on boards'? A. No, sir; because many of them would lie on the decks otherwioe. By General Dodge: i^. Didn't you have sick men put off the Relief delivered to you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was clothing delivered to you? A. Blankets and their hospital clothing — the nightshirts and pajamas. Q. They had no clothing whatever? A. Only their night clothing and their pajamas. By Dr. Conner: Q. Now, was it best for the convalescents who became worse in convalescence to be restricted to the travel ration? A. They were not restricted to the travel ration, as we had beef tea, rice, and malted milk. Q. Did you have a sufficient amount of food for the convalescents on board to supply the wants of those not able to take the proper travel ration? A. 1 think we did. Q. Were any of these men on board seriously ill? A. There was but one among the surgical patients. There was but one sick man among the medical. They almost all got sick on the way, an increase on the way, and before we arrived at New York. Among them we had at least three cases which might be called seriously ill men. Q. Did you have a sufficient ;imount of food supplies and medicines to take care of the seriouslj' ill? A. I think so. Q. Were there any nurses on board other than those Red Cross nurses to take care of them? A. Except the men assigned to us as assistants. Q. Were they of any value as niirses? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you alone in chai'ge of this vessel? A. Dr. Hicks was with me. Q. Was Dr. Hicks able to do duty on the way up? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you? A. I was part of the time: I got seasick, and 1 arranged to take charge of the surgical cases and Dr. Hicks took charge of the medical cases. I was seasick, and 1 would go up and attend to my cases and then go back to l)ed again. q. Did you go straight to New York or did you stop at Fortress Monroe first? A. Fortress Monroe first. t^. How long did you lie in the Roads? A. From 12 o'clock Monday until 8 o'clock Tuesday morning. Q. What was the occasion of your detention at F(n-tress Monroe? A. Some misunderstanding between the sliip's captain and the Quartermaster's Department. When I arrived at Fortress Monroe, I telegraphed to the Surgeon- General. We were boarded by the marine- hospital people and the character of the sickness was sufficient for them to deem it suspicious and refuse us permission to land, and I telegraphed to the Surgeon- General about it, and he answered to go on to New York. In the meantime the captain said lie was under orders from the Quartermaster's Department and could not move until ordered by them, and an order did not come until next morning. 3062 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF V/AR WITH SPAIN. Q. When you left Siboney were yoii supplied properly with milk and ice? A. We had no milk except malted milk, and the ice gave out the first day. Q. Did you resupply the vessel at Fortress Monroe? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now. as respects the water of the ship, in what condition was that water; was it proper for use, or not? A. I do not think it was, in my opinion. Q. What was the matter with it? A. It was forbidding in appearance. It was the color of natiiral river water. Q. Do you think ordinary river water is not proper to drink? A. I wotild prefer drinking some other kind. Q. What other objections were there to the water? A. That was the principal objection. Q. Did the water stink? A. No, sir. Q. Did it have any peculiar odors? A. No, sir. Q. Did it have any taste? A. Not sufficiently noticeable to be disagreeable. Q. So it was the color rather than anything else that was disagreeable? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was the water obtained? A. I think he said it was obtained in Savannah. Q. Do you know how long it had been in the tanks of the vessel? A. As I remember, the ship had not been fitted out in two months. Q. Was there a sufficient (quantity of water on board for all purposes? A. I do not think we ever gave out of water. Q. Were the tanks refilled at Forti'ess Monroe? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did they get that water? A. From a ship or boat which was sent out by the Commissary Department. Q. Was that water clear or colored? A. It was clear, but being piit in the same tanks there was a little color given to it; but on the whole it was an improvement. Q. How many men did you lose on the triii, Doctor? A. None. Q. What was done with the sick when you reached New York? A. Dr. Doty was on the ship examining the cases, and he deemed it sufficient to place the ship in qiiarantine? Q. What did Dr. Doty say to you? A. He said that under the conditions he would place us in quarantine as if we had yellow fever on board. He took all the wounded to Bellevue Hospital: the fever patients he sent to Swinburne Island and the others went to Hoffman Island. Q. You had charge of the wounded? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it or not a fact that any of the wounded were taken from the battlefield to the hospitals and then taken to your ship in a nightshirt? A. No, sir. Q. Is it a fact that the nightshirt was filthy dirty when your ship arrived in New York? A. I know of no such thing. Q. Would you have known it had such been the case? A. I think so. Q. Is it a fact that men had woiinds which were not dressed but once on the way up to New York? DR. URBEN SINCLAIR BIRD. 3063 A. No, sir. Q. Is it wise to disturb a nonsuppurative wound, the subject not being a sufferer from fever? A. It is better not to disturb it. Q. Is it, or not, a fact, as stated by Dr. Doty, that the wounded arrived in that condition? He stated some of the wounds were suppurating, and I asked the doc- tor what was the matter, and lie said you said you had no instruments or medi- cines. What instruments did you need in dressing sores? A. Our fingers. Q. Is it, or not, a fact that you stated to Dr. Doty as an explanation of the wounds not being dressed that you had no instruments or medicines? A. I do not remember any such statement. By General Dodge: Q. Have you seen the statement Miss Jennings made in relation to this ship? A. I think I have. I think I saw it as soon as it was published. Q. What have you to say in relation to the charges she made? A. I do not remember, even generally, what they were now. Can you recall any details you would like to ask me about? Q. No. Did you make any answer to her statement? A. I made no formal answer, but I made a report to General Sternberg. Q. Did you make any reference to that in your report? A. Not intentionally. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Out of the 135 patients you had on board how many of them, practically, at the time you left Cuba, had you reason to expect would be sick? A. Not more than fifty, to need any great attention. Q. What was the condition of the sick during the voyage as to cleanliness? A. The ship was not cleanly. Q. Why? A. Because the people who had charge of cleaning the ship, that is, the sailors, did not do it, and we had no way of making them do it. They had charge of the water and hose and things that did that, and they would not do it. Q. How uncleanly was it? A. Just simply the iloors were dirty from the voyage the ship had made before in carrying troops down. Q. Did you complain to anyone about the refusal of Colonel Van Horn— about his refusal to let your men use the blankets? A. I did not mention Colonel Van Horn; but I mentioned this major, who was left in personal charge, and who was on the ship for two months, as I understood it. I have made reference to that in my report by stating the facts. By General McCook: f^. I want to see who that major was. A. He was a volunteer ofScer. By General Dodge: Q. The statement as to the cleanliness of the ship refers only to the dirt on board that the men would naturally make? A. Yes, sir. The ship had taken a regiment down on the first expedition, and then she was immediately sent to Jamaica, and then she was sent immediately north, and there was no chance to clean the ship, and she was simply a dirty ship. Q. Is it your opinion that the men on board that ship suffered? A. No, sir; not more than I have said. We had no ice; that Avas beyond our control; and the color and character of the water was beyond our control. Home 3064 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. newspaper ship let us have 100 pounds of ice, but it fell overboard getting it along- side, and we got on board probably 5 or 10 pounds. By Colonel Denby: Q. I believe you stated nobody died on that ship? A. Nobody. Q. Then these inconveniences the men suffered produced no serious results? A. I am not aware that thej' did. Q. Why could you not have taken those blankets? A. Because Colonel Van Horn and this major had charge of them. Q. Could you not have taken them? A. Yes, sir; but Colonel Van Horn was an officer in the Regular Army, and I thought he knew. Q. Did you get blankets from the Relief? A. Yes, sir; but not other bedding. By General Dodge: Q. Do you remember Lieutenant Byron? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Lieutenant Goss? A. I think I can remember Lieutenant Goss. They came with authority of the Quartermaster's Department, but we had nothing to do with them unless they got sick, and I think they did. of some little ailment or other. Lieutenant Byron had been w^ounded in the foot, but was convalescent then. Q. Did you have any morphia aboard? A. A very small quantity; not very much. Q. Do you remember Dr. Doty saying in this case that the people were sick and crawling over each other in agony, and that he asked the doctor why he did not give some of them who were suffering some morphia, and that the doctor on board said he had none on board; and thaC these men were suffering from diarrhea and sTiftering excruciating pain. Was anybody on board suffering excruciating pain? A. We had only one surgical case, and that not very severe. Washington, D. C, Deceviber 15, 1S98. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. Maj. Gen. John R. Brooke then appeai'ed before the commission, and the pres- ident thereof read to him the instructions received by the commission from the President of the United States, indicating the scope of the investigation. He was then asked if he had anj^ objections to being sworn, and replied that he had not. He was thereupon duly sworn by General Wilson. By General Wilson: Q. Will you please give us your name and rank, your full name? A. John R. Brooke; major-general, United States Army. Q. How long have you been in the military service of the United States, both in the regular establishment and in the Volunteer Army? A. Since the 20th of April, 1861, with an exception of a few months at the close of the war. Q. Where have you served during the war with Spain? A. What do you mean? Q. Your several commands during the war with Spain? A. At Chickamauga Park and in Porto Rico. Q. How long were you at Chickamauga Park? MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BEOOKE. 3065 A. From the 20th of April to, I think, the 2M day of July. Q. How many men were there in camp— the maximum number at one time— what was the largest number of troops congregated there at one time? A. To the best of my recollection, the largest number was 5(),000 men, in round numlKTS. v.^. Now, General, in your own way, will you give us the story of Chickamauga Park, beginning with the selection of the camp and by whom selected, if you know: the condition when you took command, the problems that confronted you in the management of it, and its condition when you left there? A. When I reached there, on the 2()th of A})ril, there was one regiment of infantry (the Twenty-fifth) encamped there. There were en route to that place ten Itatteries— light batteries of artillery— and six regiments of cavalry; within a few days these arrived, and then there were eight regiments of infantry diverted from other points to Chickamauga, seven of which only arrived, as nearly as I can recollect now vnthout notes. These were all regular troops. They came there with what transportation, animals, wagons, etc., there were at their separate posts. Much of this transportation was in need of extensive repairs. The order was to e(iuip them for the field in a certain manner. There was nothing to do with these troops but to etjuip them for transi)ortation. which was done as rapidly as could be done. The}' all went away, however, without a thorough equipment for want of time, their final departure being h;istened very much. I think the last of the regular troops left th(3 park for Camp Thomas about the 13th or 14th of May. They were all destined for Tampa— not all; no; some went to Mobile. These little details, gentlemen, I can not possibly carry in my head, because there has l)een so much occurring since. With the regular troops there was no hitch or hurry in any way: they were all organized thoroughly, and all there was to do was to give them their ecjuipnient. The volunteers commenced to arrive on Sunday after noon. I think, the loth of May. They came rapidly in great niunbers. I was directed to organize the First Army Corps, the Third Army Corps, and as much as pos.sible of the Sixth Army Corps. Those troops which came to the First Army Corps were practically troops of the National Guard of the various States. They came there supposedly equipped— actually not equipped as we ujidcrstand the term. I speak now of the equipment of the soldier and not the transportation. They came there supposedly with ten days' rations from the time that they left their camps in the various States, but on their arrival there were numerous complaints of being without food. An investi- gation showed that a ration, as they understood it, was only part of a ration. They had what is erroiieously called a field ration— hard bread, salt meat, and coffee, or the money to buy coffee; that was practically all they had. Of course they grew very hungry; and as I was advised that they had plenty of rations it relieved me very much, until I found the conditions which actually existed, which as soon as known their wants were supplied at once and there was UP difficulty; so far as supplies were concerned, the subsistence department was always ready to issue, and had the supplies and got them. The tentage was of all p;vtterns— old. most of it. They were uniformed principally in the National Guard uniform, which had been worn considerably, and with the extra wear and tear they were not really serviceably iraiformed. There was considerable difficulty in obtaining uniforms sufficiently fast to equip them, our supply department being organized on a very parsimonious basis for 25,000 men; the channels of supply were verv contracted and the sudden extension of the number which were called into service caused delay, necessarily. When the National Guard regiments came in, there were other troops-I scarcely understand how to terra them, ior they came there without any eriuipment whatever, in citizens' clothes and gener- ally with one blanket; no underclothing; no shelter. Q. And no arms? 3066 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. And 110 arms. There came our difficulty. We overcame it iu time. Tiie weather was good. There was no suffering. We had plenty for them to eat. We managed to get good cooking utensils to satisfy the urgent needs. This continued with the best of regiments of the National Guard now and then , who came in eciuipped as those that I speak of, from the first until the end. The exact number of regiments coming in thoroughly equipped I can not recall. It is a matter of record, however, in the various departments; therefore I did not charge my mind with the details. All these men who came in May and June came in very rapidly. The First Corps, which wns my corps, was filled with its 27 regiments, I think, iii less than ten days. We received at one time, I think, six regiments in one day. Several were coming from their camps in cold parts of the country, some of them leaving snowdrifts; they arrived there where everything was thoroughly dry and very warm; some of those regiments, from the New England States particularly, marching from the station or stations— for we used two to avoid congestion— nec- essarily encountered at the little station of Battlefield, which was right near the camp— back of my headquarters, in fact— when they marched to their camps, men dropped out very greatly from the heat and in consequence of too much heavy clothing, and of course their systems were probably considerably deranged by the excitement of getting off, which you gentlemen, who remember our experience years ago, will understand. The reaction came and left them m a collapsed con- dition. Great efforts were made by all the departments to equip these men. My duty was to organize and equip as rapidly as I could. The difficulties of doing so can better be imagined than described. I was fortunate iu having an extraordi- narily efficient staff in the supply department. Nothing that I can remember was omitted to hasten the thorough eipiipment of the troops. There were times when the supply was not equal to the demand. Oftentimes this deficiency occurred by reason of the system which prevailed in furnishing clothing in a certain proportion of sizes to the hundred. I will say a man could not be reasonably fitted witli clothing in that way. Sufficient clothing came, as I remember, but it was too large, as a rule. Very large sizes were not used, and of course that created delay in the clothing. The equipment in the ordnance depart- ment was deficient, in so far as the belts, haversacks, canteens, cups, knives, forks, spoons, and knapsacks was concerned; that part of the equipment was very slow in going forward. The difficulties were doubtless very great, which I understood, appreciated, and did the best I could to overcome. Very early in June, or the latter part of May, I was ordered to send eight of the best equipped regiments in the camp to Tampa immediately. In order to complete their equip- ment it was necessary to take from the other regiments that part of the equip- ment which those regiments who were selected to go— and those who were selected to go were more nearly equipped than any others— in order to equip them; and as it was, they went away with a deficient equipment. I remember one regiment particularly— the One hundred and fifty- seventh Indiana. I saw it on the march out— met it, on my return from one of my inspection trips, marching out. Thqy had no belt straps. The belts were tied around the waist in some way— I did not observe particularly how— by strings and by twine. We did not have time then to reduce the amount of impedimenta of the regiment— individual men— that was absolutely necessary for the comfort and convenience to the supply of trans- portation, so that these men carried their knapsacks not fully loaded, probably, so far as I observed, but they carried their knapsacks with a good deal more in them than we were accustomed to using in our experience as young men. The effort to equip them in that way went on, so far as the ordnance department was concerned, during the whole time of my stay at Camp Thomas. When I left there, there were a great many articles still deficient in the way of canteens, haversacks, and the eciuipment for the haversack belts. It seemed to be exceed- ingly difficult to obtain the cartridge belt, so that some of the regiments MA J. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3067 were still supplied with the cartridge boxes— how many I do not now recall. The equipment was, so far as transportation was concerned, hurried forward as rapidly as we could get the mules, wagons, harness, etc. Tents were deficient in number because, as I was informed by the Qaartermaster-General, they had exhausted the supply of canvas in the country; that the demands had been so great that there was nothing left. They bought all the tents that were manufactured, of whatever size and whatever quantity they could find, and shipped them to us. The standard tents came along in time, but not in such (luantities as to meet the demands which were made on us in order to eqiiip the troops which were to be held in readiness for movement at very short notice. The consequence of that was that in the month of June the men were too much crowded in their larg(!r tents, and the pitching of the "shelter tent" was generally resorted to to relieve the congestion in the larger tents, which of course was permitted. In the latter part of June — I am not sure whether it was the 29th or 30tli, but it was about then — I received directions from the Headcjuarters of the Army to equip three divisions or to prepare three divisions of those best equipped in the camp for service in the West Indies, under my command, to report at the earliest possible date when they would be ready to move. The First Army Corps divisions, having arrived first, were in my opinion more thoroiighly ready in the efficiency of their eciuipment than were those of the Third Army Corps, which had part of two divisions then on the ground. I immediately turned my attention to the comple- tion of the equipment of the divisions of the First Corps with those things of which they were still deficient. That continued up to the very moment of my departure. When I left the park, on the 2;jd of July, I considered the divisions of the First Army Corps equipped in all their parts, even to the equipment of their hospitals and of the reserve hospitals and ambulance companies; that is to say, the material was there in the hospital corps. The men were all new to their work, unin- strncted in their duties, and as a matter of fact large numbers of them were ever without reason inefficient, as you may well understand. Large numbers of them came into the service without any previous service, and large numbers came there without uniforms at all. and they had to be supplied and equipped with all that was necessary for that corps. Transportation had been accumulated very rapidly and had been furnished throughout. At first as many wagons were sent to the regiments as were necessary to use in the camp. When they were all supplied to that extent, more were issued, beginning at the head of the column and going down in regular gradation to the last arrival. When the troops were being started away— eight regiments started away about the beginning of June and left their camps, and it was necessary to transfer wagons from other regiments in order to give them their equipment. In the beginning, in so far as the selection of the camp was concerned— I am not informed more than by general report how this spot was selected; it was sufficient for me to know that it had been selected and I was sent there— I accepted the conditions and did the best possible. My atten- tion was at first directed to the efforts of the park commission to meet the water supply, that sufficed for the regular troops, it being practically a very early spring; that portion of the park, that which was covered by timber, was wet, and the troops were camped in the open, where it was dry. The water supply was obtained largely from large springs, one called the Cave Spring, near which a brigade of infantry was camped and not far away a brigade of cavalry. Another was the Mullis Spring, said to be living springs, inexhaustible. Around it were grouped ten batteries of artillery and one regiment of cavalry, who drew their supply of water from it. and one brigade of infantry. Part of the other brigade of cavalry drew its water supply from a spring which was under a very large water oak tree, which was near the -park headquarters. I forget the name of the field it was in— I think the Dyer field. The wells were p-ut down there— through limestone rock— at various depths until they penetrated and reached 3068 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. the water supply below; and when I left the park these machines were still at work, although I had instituted a pipe line, water from which was taken from the Chickamauga Creek, upon the mouth or outlet of the Cave Spring Branch which furnished it, and which proved to be, by very frequent analyses made here in Washington, to be good water. It was at first condemned. When the pipes were first laid the work was rapidly done, and they were exposed to the sun to such an extent as to heat the water in them, so as to make it necessary to cool the water before it was used for drinking. That was obviated very shortly by covering the pipes in the shallow branch and protecting them from the rays of the sun. The water supplied there was in considerable volume; the supply was pumped into a reservoir; from that it was distributed in two directions, one to the east. and one to the west. The western one had several branches of it. I tliink it was a 6-inch main. I think the one going directly from the tank to the eastward was less in size— I think probably :j-inch size or thereabouts; I don't recollect the size. There was, of course, a great deal of complaint about that water. Many contended that it was contaminated by the drainage from this Cave Spring camp. It was prob- ably without foundation. I know that from personal observations made very frequently indeed. The camp, as I say, was put in the woods. Those of you gentlemen who have been in Chickamauga have seen the woods; you know what they were. I was unable to discover during my daily inspection of the camp that there was any point in the timber that the sun did not reach some time during the day. An effort was made to observe all sanitary rules. My orders were ({uite clear as to that, but I supplemented those orders by a very rigid personal inspec- tion. Very rarely a day passed that 1 did not inspect that whole camp, or so much of it as I could get over. When not able to reach certain portions of it, some of uiy staff were sent there to see that the regulations were carried out. I was particularly anxious and insisted that that portion of the camp which was occupied by my own corps, by the cavalry, and by the artillery should observe all sanitary rules. The commander of the Third Corps was there, an officer of eiiual rank with myself, and I did not inspect his camp as frequently as I did that of the First Corps. By Colonel Deney: Q. Who was the commander of that corps, please? A. General Wade. The location you have before you in that map. [Pointing to chart of Chickamauga in the commission's room.] I made it myself in a general way, indicating the lines generally where the camps should be, and then leaving it to the officers in command to fill in details. If, on inspection, 1 had any criti- cism to make, I made it; and if there were any corrections required, the correc- tions were made. All the appurtenances of camps of infantry, artillery, and cavalry were insisted upon. There was. when we first went there, a very great influx of what you might call hucksters, with all sorts of trash. As old soldiers, gentlemen, you will understand what effect that will have upon the health of the men. I regulated that and forbade any of these people from coming into the ■ camp except they had a permit signed by a distinguished staff officer of mine. The provost guard inspected the permits and the contents of the wagons, and wherever the slightest infringement was made the permit was revoked and the parties were taken beyond the confines of the park. After that got into operation my medical staff informed me that the sick report had fallen off about 30 percent. I do not think that that came to me in writing, but that is my recollection— it was about ,30 per cent decrease in the sick report. I have seen it stated, gentlemen, m the newspapers that certain officers have stated before you in reports which were printed that I did not inspect these camps. I deem it proper to say to you, gen- tlemen, now that it is altogether possible that officers did not see me in these inspections— the officers rarely saw me— the officers rarely saw me unless they MAJ. GEN. JOHN K. BROOKE. 3069 were sent for. My usual track was between the company's kitchens av.d the sinks, oscillating from kitchen to sink and sink to kitchen. General Dodge. General, there is plenty of testimony before us that you were often through the camps. The Witness. It was not only often, General Dodge, it was daily. General Dodge. We have that, too. The Witness. There has been, of course, a great voluminous pile of alleged testimony which I don't know anything about, as I was out of the country and far away, giving no attention to it until my attention was directed to the news- paper report made by the chief surgeon of the camp while I was there. Whether il was true or correctly printed or not I can not say. I made that clipping a sub- ject of a letter to you, gentlemen of the commission, as I deemed it might be wise before you adjourned for you gentlemen to examine the records which are obtain- able. In everything connected with the camp at Chickamauga Park I can only say this: That the cam)) was well selected; that it was a good camp. There were difficulties there which were overcome, I think, when I left it. I was informed the evening before I left the camp— for I had a daily sick report in memorandum form— and my memory is, my recollection is, that it was under 4 per cent for the whole of the camp. There has been a great deal stated to you about typhoid fever. When I was summoned to Washington, about the middle of July last, 1 had a report brought to me of the number of typhoid-fever cases then in the camp. There wore 9',>. I remember that, I think, distinctly. There was some complaint about the hospital service. I was impressed very strongly by the elfort of the Medical Department to inaugurate a medical service at the begin- ning of this war which was similar to and probably an improvement on that in whfch most of you gentlemen were engaged, the war of the rebellion. We all know that our provost and best soldiers— men distinguished for bravery and cool- ness-were selected at that time as stretcher bearers and driver.^ of the ambu- lances. The fact that a man was seen with a stretcher on his shoulder was one indication that he was one of the best men in the Army. I am satisfied that the cft'orts of the Medical Department were to start out with an organization hav- ing as many of the benetits or improvements of the former organization of 1861 and ISCr, as it was possible to obtain in the beginning of the war. When the orders of the Medical Department reached me in regard to that I found a great deal of opposition in regard to regimental matters and the proper men to fill these places. This, gentlemen, was to such an extent that 1 directed my chief surgeon. Colonel Huidekoper , to select the men and furnish me the names, and that those men must be the best he could select with the knowledge he would have. I then had those men detailed for that service; 1 refer particularly to those who were detailed from regiments. The design evidently had received the attention of those who were presumably well versed in the necessities of the case. Satisfied of that and coming to ne with the proper authority, it was not mine to question; I should have considered myself culpable had I in any way obstructed any effort to improve or establish an improved condition of things in so important a branch as the Medical Department. There was great want of medicines in the beginmng, but so far as that is concerned it was my purpose and practice to rely larg^ely upon the medical officer sent to me as chief surgeon. The complaints came to me of deficie.icies directly, and I would say here that whenever an officer, no matter what his rank, had a complaint to make I was ready to hear him. Of course large numbers of them would hesitate to come to me, but there were tliose that did come. In everv instance where a complaint reached me of a deficien y of medicines and medical supplies, hospital supplies, hospital property-forl be leve it was divided in various ways-I sent for my chief surgeon and inquired into it. It was either reported to me. of course verbally stated to a staff officer, or from a staff officer to his general, the reason for nonfulfillment of the demands. A gieat 3070 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. many other reports reached me which are not current reports, altliough they may all be true, but I don't know it, as to the matter of supplies from the depots established there. The depots were established in a place selected by myself; some of y(ju gentlemen have been there, I think, and have seen them General Dodge. We have all been there. A. [Continuing.] You have seen the supply depots of that camp. I have seen an army in the field of 150,000 men with not nearly so good a base as that was. The Army of the Potomac had its supply base at Brandy Station in the winter of '03 and '04— did not have anything equal to it. The subsistence department there had ample floor space and roof protection for the storing of ten days" supplies for 60,000 men. Tliere was a bakery adjoining in which could be baked every day 55,000 rations of bread— good bread— it was all good bread that was issued. There was a cold-storage plant there which would hold two carloads of refrigerated beef. There was a medical purveyor's storehouse there large enough to hold all the medi- cines that was necessary for the mimber of men we had there. It was not neces- sary to hold them there very long. We had a clothing storehouse there which held all the clotliing we could get— had a quartermaster's storehouse which held all that was necessary to put into it. We had large corrals, where mules and wagons could be assembled and harness put on the mules and hitched up and driven to the various places where re(iuired. We had a hospital corral which held several hundred animals and appurtenances for the treatment of sick ani- mals; in fact, gentlemen, I don't recall anything that was deficient in that camp except now and then, for reasons which will appeal to you all, supplies were deficient temporarily. One thing, the sky-blue kersey ran out. There was trou- ble. They attempted to furnish dark blue, did furnish it, but it was not of such a character as it should be. Shoes were deficient in number, but they bought all the shoes they could find in the market; so I was informed by the Department. Of course we were satisfied. I saw that everything was being done tiiat could be done. There was an army at Tampa being assembled, an army at San Francisco being assembled for immediate service, to which were sent all supplies that could be collected in a certain time in order to equip it. We felt that at Chickamauga, of course, because the supplies were diverted. At first I thought of establishing an ordnance depot at the camp. I had placed at my disposal and under my dis- position the Columbia Arsenal, which was within twelve hours' run, and which had its equipment of ordnance officers, laborers, and clerks necessary and all appurtenances to quickly handle supplies and fill reijuisitions, and under those circumstances I decided not to establish an ordnance depot at the camp. I had scarcely attempted to draw on the Columbia Arsenal for that portion of the equip- ment which was not furnished before it was taken away from us. Then I regretted that I had not established a depot. Q. Who was it taken away from you by? A. By my superior. Q. For military purposes? A. I don't know; I i^resiime so. Q. I mean did they continue to use it or not? A. Certainly; they diverted the supplies from me to Tampa and for the Manila expedition. There was one thing that struck me then and has impressed itself upon me ever since, and that is the effect which the centralization which has con- timaed for thirty years has had upon the individual officers of the supply depart- ments. It has destroyed their intlividuality and their enterprise in a great meas- ure. I have fortunately been able to keep myself clear of the contaminating effect produced by the system of centralization. I have never hesitated during this war, or on any other occasion where it appeared to me to be necessary, to compel my staff officers to obey my orders in matters of that kind, assuming all tlie responsi- bility which would be placed upon my shoulders, becoming personally responsible MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3071 for my acts. The Treasury, however, as a rule, thought the disbursement officer was responsible alone for the disbursements he might make, and for that reason I have often been compelled to submit, in deference to the decision which neither he nor I was responsible for or could combat, and did not insist in time of peace on the plain prerogative of a commander. At Chickamauga I do not recall an instance where there was any hesitation on the part of any of my supply department staff officers to go right ahead. The whole matter of the buildings erected for the pro- tection of stores was conceived and carried out right at headiiuarters, details of which were in the hands of the proper departments, and during the erection of the buildings I frequently inspected the property. In fact, gentlemen, in that way I never hesitated to exercise the full power of a commander to meet such emergencies as were within my reach. I saw myself— I have had my attention called to the remark made before your commission of a staff officer of mine. I do not know that I can correctly quote his language, but the remark was to the effect that my headciuarters camp was unutterably filthy. There must be some great mistake on tht; part of that gentleman, for my solicitude, as far as my headcjuartcrs camp was concerned, was as to cleanliness, and had it been in that condition 1 certainly would have seen it, and so would others. It was not so; it was exceedingly clean. Q. He said that the head(iuarters were in a filthy condition. It was a Colonel Goethals; ho spoke of the policing. I asked liim the question myself. A. No, General; the camp throughout— the camp grounds were absolutely clean. The surroundings at times I found littered: but whenever I did find such, an aid or a staff" officer went directly to the officer responsible, be it a regimental, brigade, division, or corps commander, and that received his attention until the matter was corrected. I have frequently gone back to my headquarters from one of my tours of insiiection without even an orderly, as they had all gone on various messages in regard to matters which I found it necessary to correct. I think I have given as tersely and about as clear a history of that camp as I can. The reason for putting the troops in the timber, which seems to have received some criticism at the hands of some gentlemen who probably had views of their own about such things, I will give as from my experience, from the natiire of the timber, for it was a very beautiful park, no underbrush: it was cleaned up; it was the only place possible to put troops during the heat which prevailed. My tent was in the open ground; the sun beat down on it until late in the afternoon. The thermometers frequently stood in my tent at lOo". I occupied a conical wall tent of my own design, until one day, busy writing with the canvas hanging over my head, I felt everything turn black before my eyes. I looked up at a little thermometer which I had carried for years with me and it stood at 104^. I got out into the timber, made up my mind that I should have to have a different kind of tent or else would not be able to attend to business, for my tent was my office. I was threatened also — I would say here that an alleged copy of a newspaper report, at least of an inquiry instituted by the commanding general of that camp to inquire into its unhealthy condition and the cause thereof — the finding of the board, consisting of the general officers, as published, describes the cause due to con- ditions existing under previous administration. If that is the true report, I would only invite the attention of this commission to the actiial conditions as regards the health of that camp up to the 23d day of July; after that I can not go per- sonally. Of course, gentlemen, you will understand that after I had received the order to equip three divisions I was intensely occupied in that. I established a depot then, and insisted that the ordnance supplies, which was the main trouble at that time, should be sent to me by express and be sent in bulk. That ordnance depot was in the open ground in front of the tents of my chief ordnance officers and within very easy reach of my own. It is unnecessary for me to say anything further to General Beaver on this subject, for he will understand that I spent a 3072 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. great deal of time iu that little pile of boxes, and saw that the ordnance supplies were distributed, in so far as they went, with the regiments of the First Army Corps, which was being prepared for foreign service, and that in many cases sup- plies sent to the other regiments which needed them I ruthlessly took from regi- ments which were not designated to leave that camp, in order to fill the necessi- ties existing with those which were to leave that camp. I adopted such methods as seemed to be best in regard to these things. Another little matter which may not have attracted your attention is a daily rei^ort to the Adjutant-General of the Army by telegraph of the amount of supplies issued during that day and the amount of deficiencies, of the urgency in various instances of meeting the defi- ciencies which existed in the supijly department at the time. If you will look over those reports you will find one remark continuously; it is this, as near as I can recollect: " Subsistence department is well supplied."' It became rather a matter of amusement to me on account of its being reported every day iu that identical language, as 1 can remember. By Governor Woodbury: Q. It was. General, an exception so far as the Subsistence Department was con- cerned? A. The difficulty we had with the Subsistence Department was to keep them from sending too much. We could not handle it. We had no place for it until I directed the renting of a large warehouse in Chattanooga that was available. We were in a box, so to speak; we coiild not handle tlie stores. I think there was three months' supply for a very large number of men— I think it was 100,000 in Chattanooga. Q. Did a like difficulty exist with reference to the medical supplies? A. What do you mean? C^. Did the medical rei)ort show the amount of medical stores on hand? A. The telegraphic daily reports showed the amount of supplies issued and the deficieiicies in each of the departments; it was sent at 6 p. m. and was called the "G p. m. report." By General Dodge: Q. Before you left — the location of the camp — when you located these troops therein the open, was it in very dry soil — hot? A. Yes, sir; very, very dry; besides the roads were choked with dust, which crossed the open ground. Q. Was it your intention to move these camps out of the woods when the rainy season came? A. Why, of course: I would move them anywhere, at any time, when the neces- sity arose. By that 1 mean that whenever an occasion arose: but I never crossed a stream until I came to it. The conditions existing where those camps were under my command — I daily went over them, and I would call your attention. General Dodge, that in 18(53 to I8O0, or in the l)eginning of 1868, the Army of the Cumberland cami)ed at Murfreesboro, on that little stream, in almost the same character of soil — open grounds principally — from December to June. Q. Yes. A. And I do not know whether they changed the camps often or not. General McCook will know; he was there. General McCooK. Yes; they changed the camps, but kept them in the same vicinity. The Witness. That is wliat would have been done in this case. I had explored all the country in the vicinity of Chickamauga, and I was prepared at any time to do anything that circumstances demanded; but up to tlie time 1 left there was no occasion for it; there was no possible reasons for any change — that is, no purpose for the change apparent to me. ■ MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3073 By General Beaver: Q. Were there no changes made in the camps of any of the regiments prior to your leaving" A. Well, the First Division had moved out largely before 1 left the First Corps; that was parallel to there [pointing to chart in commission's roomj ; you see, right along the Lafayette road, southeast of it; but one brigade of that division had only moved out. That is that on the left there, General [pointing to mapj; that is it [pointing to map] . It was a surprising feature, and I watched it very closely. The most condensL'd camp that we had was the Second, over by Jay's Mills; that was the most condensed camp, and it was up to the time I left the healthiest in the park. Its sick list was less than in others, as far as I remember, in the park. By General Dodge: Q. Who commanded that division? A. General Poland; but he died of malarial fever shortly after I left there. Q. This division moved out in June, did it not? A. No, sir; one brigade of it moved out in July and the second brigade moved on the 21st and 22d. Q. The 2r)th of July? A. The 21st and 22d. The third brigade followed immediately after. By General Beaver: Q. When you so moved out, they did not change their camps in the immediate vicinity bvit to the point of embarkation? A. Yes. [Reference is here made to chart in commission's room, whereon Gen- eral Brooke explains to the commission the certain localities of the camp, the lines of pipe, the laying of the pipe lines, the various roads, and so forth, and explained in a general way his ideas upon the different locations, and so forth, there.] Here [indicating on map] is a pipe line; here is a branch going over the different divi- sions. The cry for water was an amazing one for me. Here was probably the healthiest part of the camp— that is, the First Division of the Third Army Corps— upon which the ground, the surface of it, was slated rock. Now, in justice to myself, I think I ought to speak of this First Division hospital. It was established at a time when I did not have an opportunity to go over it. 1 directed my chief surge. .11, Colonel Hartsuff, to select a place for that hospital, and so far as I know he selected that place. There have been various reports made l.y the officers who had charge of it as to its location, but it was the one place m the whole camp which I condemned as to location. It was a bad one, I think. By Captain Howell: Q I would like, Mr. President, to ask General Brooke a few questions. I want to state to you, General, that there has been a good deal of testimony before this commission in regard to certain facts that corroborate some statements which you have made, but some, I think, I am frank enough to say, will rcjuire explanation from you, and I am going to be frank enough to slate it to you here as it has made an imrression upon me-I do not know whether it has with any of the other men here. In the first place, there have been complaints made m regard to the location of certain regiments in that reservation upon grounds that were so rocky that they could not make sinks, nor could they drive their tent puis in the ground That was on that section of ground between where your ^f^^^^''''^''.;'"^ Chickamauga Creek; you know where it is. I want you to explain why these troops were put m that locality, and then I want to ask you whether plans were made, and what your reasons were if they were not made? A. One thing at a time, please. General Dodge. Take your time. General. ,:,Mai,^« A. First, the troops were pu.t in on that locality in a general way by the division 16'6o — vol.. (J 43 3074 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OP^ WAR WITH SPAIN. comuiLinder, an officer of long experience in the regular service, a brigadier of volunteers at the time, and I indicated in a general way where I wanted that division to rest. The innneiliate location of any particular cainp along that line— you are alluding now to the Third Brigade of the First Division of the First CorpsV Q. One of the New Hampshire regiments was there, or the Twelfth New York Regiment. A. The Twelfth New York was on another ground, on the road to the left; it was the second brigade there [i)ointing to the niapj , right m front of you, Gen- eral — the Twelfth New York is the center regiment? By General Dodge: Q. Well, they were on the rocky ground also? A. Yes, they were; also the Eighth Massachusetts, the Twelfth New York, and the Twenty-first Kansas, I think. Q. What was the condition of the ground there? A. There was some rocky substance — limestone, I think — floating on the siirf ace. They would occasionally probably strike a piece of rock embedded in the ground. I looked into it. I could see no reasonable cause of complaint. I examined the places where their sinks were dug in that brigade, where the Twelfth New York was, and where their sinks were dug they could have dug them, so far as I could judge, 20 feet deep if they so desired; there was nothing to obstruct the digging of sinks there. Q. As far as the other brigade was concerned, was there any (luantity of ground within a proper distance of the camp in which they could have easily dug sinlcs? A. I give this as my opinion: Having examined the ground, after the camps were established, and feeling satisfied that there was no reasonable ground for complaint, I did not move the troops. Had there been any just grounds they might have been moved. Q. I simply state that that was the complaint which was made. General Wil- liston eveu testified. A. By the way, what had he to do with it? Q. Well, he was camped there. A. General Williston was not there. Q. General Williston occupied part of the ground that 1 allude to. A. Then you are mistaken on the ground. Williston's camp was where the artillery were. Q. General Williston complained of the camp of the artillery. A. Well, as to that, they did dig sinks, and deep ones, too: I saw that myself. Q. Well, as I understand you, did the complaint reach you that they could not dig sinks or drive tent pegs in the ground? A. Not officially; but in going over the ground where the Second Missouri, Ninth Texas, and First New Hami^shire were encamped 1 saw that they had been placed in ground which, if I had located those regiments, would not have selected. By General Beaver: Q. These were the worst camps I saw when I was down there. Did you find the same thing in the Third Tennessee. General? A. There was any (quantity of this limestone rock such as I have described, but it was not necessary to place them just exactly on that particular ground. I could see no evidence of their not being able to drive their tent pins there. Their tents were up in good shape, all of them. Q. Gen. Edward B. Williston, in his testimony to this commission, in answer to a (luestion by General Beaver, reading as follows: " What were the conditions at Camp Thomas generally as to the camp facilities, the water supply, and the gen- MA,T. GEN. JOHN R. l{ROOKE. 3075 ei-iil euvironments so far as healtlifulness was concernedV " said, "My cainp was about one-half mile lony and from one-third to half a mile wide, in a grove, which served for shade and still at the same time didn't prevent the sun from drying up the ground after a rain. The ground sloped gradually both ways, right and left, and it drained evenly. The position I was camped on was unfortunate for troops, because there was little soil above the rocks. I could not dig a hole without strik- ng a rock. 1 would dig through o or 4 inches of loose soil and strike the hardest kind of clay, and it was only by the most constant and unremitting attention that I was able to have any sanitary condition kept in regard to the sinks, and the medical l)oard said that the condition of my cauips was entirely satisfactory, but it was by constantly changing them and using every disinfectant I could get hold of and by inspecting it myself every day. The water supply was very unsatisfac- tory when I first went there. I had a large number of horses and mules, and the water all came from wells. I do not think there was any surface contamination. There were artesian wells there from 30 to 50 feet deep, and I think, from the effect it had on everybody, there was more or less magnesia. I considered it good, but the supply was small. At one time before they commenced ordering the troops away it was almost impossible to get water. I have sent my horses down there at 12 o'clock and they would not get their Avater until night. After this we commenced the construction of two artesian wells, but they were not finished. The water from the springs was piped over ({uite close to my camp, but it never reached it, but it reached the point where 1 could water the horses. The supply for the men we got Jfrom the same place. I tried to boil the water for the men, but it was ridiculous; I could not do it. The men would not touch it; and the meh were bound to drink Irom a spring near to them instead of walking a distance to drink my boiled water. The orders were positive, and I had all the battalion commanders trying to carry out the orders, but it was a failure." General, what have you to say in regard to General Williston's statement? A. i can only say that it was his duty to inspect the camp every day, and it was necessary for him to do that, Hi3 had an artillery brigade there. Q. What is your opinion, General, as to the condition of things in General Williston's camp? A. My recollection of Williston's camp is that he had sinks on the ground, but I saw evidence that not only the stuff from the kitchen but other excreta were thrown into those sinks. Q. General, a great many have testified to this fact— that they could not dig sinks there on account of the rock. A As I stated before, there was plenty of places where sinks could be dug (A general conversation then ensued between the commission and General Brooke, whereupon the General explained on the chart in the commission s room the different situations of the different camps and the several conditions which existed during the time he was in command there. ) Captain Howell. General, when you read this testimony you will hnd a great deal of the testimony that has been taken in regard to the camps and a great many complaints. Of course, there have been a great many complaints made that have no foundation; there never was a camp in the world organized wherein com- T>laints were not made; but I want an explanation of them, because I do notthmk you would permit that stateof affairs to exist unless you had good reason for it. The Witness. Of course. t ., • i v u ■ General Dodge. One of the complaints in regard to the sinks, I think, which is the strongest, is that the ground was not absorbent-that it was c-lay, and tlnvt when the; endeavored to sink their excreta it forced itself to the top and ovei- fiowed and was floating around; do you know anything about that, General The Witness. I would only say that they didnot cover the excreta twoox thiee 3076 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. times a day daily, as they should have done, and which was enjoined upon them, and which was the i)rincipal charge of the officers of the day in each individual camp, of the officer commanding- a regiment, brigade, and division. The division commander was the one whom 1 called to account twice for an omission of that kind. On the First Division line of sinks, which was toward the Lafayette road, there was that difficulty. The first good heavy rain that came filled them up and they overflowed; but General Williston was commanding that division. He observed what was necessary to do and did it. There was no further trouble that ever I heard of or observed, and I was frequently, very frequently, in that neighborhood. By Captain Howell: Q. Now, another point is, and that is in regard to the water supply. Gen. George W. Davis testified before this commission that when he selected that place he reported on it — iie investigated certain localities, and he said that the (|uestion with him was that the supply of water for that camp was to come from Crawfish Springs. There has been a great deal of testimony before us with regard to the trouble the men had to get drinking water, and a great many witnesses have tes- tified that they had to haul in wagons drinking water, during that hot spell of weather that you have testified about, 4^ miles. Now, why was not that water pipe from Crawfish Springs sufficient to supply the necessary wants, and why was it that men were retjuired to haul water for their needsV A. They hauled it in wagons from that si)ring because it was the best way to get water down, of course. Thei-e was no obiecti(m to the hauling of water by wagons until the owner of C^rawfish Springs objected to it. I had Colonel Goethals make an expert examination and estimate for putting in the necessary pipe supply for pumping of water from Crawfish Si)rings, and when those plans and estimates had been completed no less a man than Dr. Seim, of Chicago, raised the question about the condition of that water. When the (juestion of a sufficient water supply was raised, and an effort made to arrange for an additional supply from Crawfish Springs also, the estimate of expenses which would be entailed and the feasibility of it was thoroughly considered by Colonel Goethals and his report was made? before it could be put into operation about 80,U00 men were going away from there, and before it could possibly have been finished — had they gone accord- ing to programme there would have been left possibly 25.000 men and the supply of water for them — part of the troops left the camp. The Blue Spring water was hauled a mile and over from Alexander Bridge; there was no difficulty in haul- ing all the water needed in that way —they got what they wanted: they had plenty of mules, wagons, etc., at their disposal, and there was no reason why the Govern- ment should be put to the expense of $3r),o00 for a temporary plant for what might only be a very temporary use, when the animals were not more than reasonably exercised and the men not overburdened with work in bringing that water there in wagons. These are my reasons, and the fact that Mr. Gordon Lee — I think that was his name General Dodge. Yes. A. [Continuing.] And his brother, one of the Lees, came to me and said that he objected to the further use and trespass on his i))'operty at Crawfish Si)rings. and complained in such a way that I forbade the further use of that spring, b-ing satisfied from the analyses made here in Washington by the Medical Department as to the absolute pui'ity of the water so far as used, and that it was fit for domes- tic purposes and for drinking purposes. Q. From Chickamauga Creek? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were the men ever prostrated there who used that water for drinking pur- poses? A. Not to my knowledge. MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3077 By General Dodge: Q. If they liad used the water through the pipe line, which was established, was there not sufficient water there in that canii) to supply the troops without haulingV A. Certainly. By Captain Howell: <^. Was that the Chlckamauga Creek water? A. Certainly. By General DorxiE: C^. But there were ])lenty of wells there? A. Certainly. The wells were actually there, but it must be remembered that limestone water does not (luench the thirst as well as sandstone water or a gravel water: and this is true about that whole section of Georgia, as 1 remember it — it was largely tinctured with lime. By General Beaver: (^. General Brooke, the important point about this camp is the question of sani- tation, based upon two distinct grounds— first, as to sinks, their use and lack of use, and next, as to th(> water supply. The complaint has been made that the men were unaccustomed to the use of sinks and that tuey defecated promiscuously over tiie whole camp, and that it became such a nuisance that the camp became unin- haliitable. Is that a fact: and what was done to remedy the fact, if it existed? A. In whiit part of the camp was this.' (^. That complaint has beon very general ;is to all parts of the camp. By General Dodge: t^. More especially when regiments first arrived there? A. There was a great deal of that, but it had gotten under control largely, with the exception of a few regiments. Of course, y oil will all understand that it is impossible on a dark night to catch every fellow who hugs to a tree for that pur- pose, but that received lU}^ particular and closest attention in the First Corps as its commander; directly and wherever it was observed it had occurred nction was taken, until finally it h;id practically ceased. There was one regiment which caused a great deal of annoyance in that respect. Q. Do you recall the name of the regiment? A. My recollection is that it was a Mississippi regiment. In riding past the camp it was my endeavor to visit the i3ump house, which I did \ery Ireciuentlj', two or three times a week, and there were some places there which were a sort of channel of communication, that is, large numbers of men passed through certain strips of timber during tlie day, and passing to and from the stations they were compel'ed to obey the calls of nature, and they did not liave time to look around very much probably— that is a possible explanation: but as far as that other ]ioint was concerned, it seemed to me to be deliberately done, so far as I could see. The ground, of course. w;is policed, and as often as these things occurred .action was taken in the matter. B}' General Beaver: Q. I have seen the time when you would probably make a fellow believe if his nose had been rubbed into such things A. I have had dirty men in my own regiments right across the river here whom I sent down to the bank of the creek and used considerable sand in ])ollcing them. I did not have to have the operation on the same man again; but in these days if yor. took such an action it would, perhaps, bring you into considerable unpleasant notoriety. Q. Do you recall the case of the Ninth New York? 1 think- it was there in your 3078 INVESTIGATION OF CONDU("r OF WAli WITH SPAIN. cominancl; it was in the Thir^ — that was after you left, but the report deals with the previous condition of affairs there. I will read that to you so that you can say what you please in regard to it: •'When the volunteer troops arrived here in May they were inexj)erienced in the details of camping. Moreover, they were poorly supplied with tools and materials of all kinds. It is absolutely necessary in this climate that latrines be dug deep and boxed and roofed in. Many regiments had no picks or even shovels. They had no lumber, and in consequence of these obstacles insufficient latrines were dug. The men relieved nature all through the woods, and the ground around the camp became contaminated. The rains (quickly filled the shallow latrines, and their contents ran over the surface of the ground. This made it necessary to dig new latrines, which, in turn, had to be abandoned. I know of one camp which has over 200 old latrines on its outskirts. The holes for garbage near kitchens became filled with water in the same mann«^r. All these places- shallow trenches, with the same covering of soil— are now emitting poisonous gases from the decomposing material beneath. The camps have been changed to new sites, only to extend foulness and infection. The whole park reeks with it. It is estimated that S,000 tons of excrement, garbage, manure, and sweep- ings now infect it. The troops now have better methods of treating their offal and garbage. The latrines are properly closed, the garbage in some instances is burned, the manure and refuse burned if possible. The troops are now camp- ing in the open drill fields, where they get plenty of sun and air. Every precau- tion is being taken, but it is too late. The mischief has been done. The park as a camping place is incurably infected. Every breeze carries a stench. The sick report mounts day by day. A general lassitude is apparent in men and officers. The months in which typhoid fever and malaria are most common are at hand. The cases of typhoid fever have reached 500, and the whole situation presages a general epidemic. Under the circumstances detailed above no remedy exists except a general departure of the troops from this place." Was any such condition as that apparent or imminent or foreseeable at the time you left the camp? A. If you will give me a copy of that report, I will see that that young man goes before a court-martial for the sort of statements he has made there, if he is not protected by this commission. By General Dodge: Q. This communication is not made to us; it is a report made to the Adjutant- General. A. Of what? Q. As inspector of sanitation. A. Of what? q. This is addressed to the adjutant-general at Camp Thomas. It is dated August 19. and then it is indorsed August 31, 1898: " Headquarters Camp George H. Thomas. Ga. August 3 1 , 1898. Respectfully referred to the Inspector-General of the Armv. Many details have received attention as the inspection proceeded, but as all this command is now ordered to new stations, it may be too late, for the usual remedial action upon, etc., probably contain information directly related to and supplementing the data secured during a similar inspection of the command last May, and this may be aided by Major Parker. Perhaps the most iK.tal.le fea- tures are how much the military instruction and efficiency have improved and how greatly the sickness has in<-reased, though with comparatively small percentage of deaths." Signed "J. C. Breckinridge, Major-General." Tins was not testi- 3082 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAK WITH SPAIN. mony before this commission; and if it had been, we are of course bound to protect our witnesses. The President has directed that all such witnesses before this commission shall be protected. A. Well, Mr. President, I shall call the attention of the Secretary of War to that rei>ort, with the request that he be made to substantiate that statement. General Dodge. This is, of course, on record at the War Office, and comes direct to lis from the War Office. By Captain Howell : Q. Do you state, General, that that condition of affairs did not exist? A. It did not exist when I was there. There was nothing existing at that time to show that such a condition of things did exist, to my recollection. By General Beaver: Q, Well, I understand you to say also that tip to the time you left there there were no conditions that could have produced such a situation as that which he outlines in this report? A. None whatever. Q. General, do yon recall the case of a brigade surgeon named Ma.i. J. C. Martin? A. I don't remember. Q. Did Colonel Hartsuff leave camp before you did? A. A few days after. Q. Did General Sheridan go with you? A. He went with me. Q. Did you hear of a conversation betweeii Major Martin and General Boynton in regard to the prevalence of typhoid fever, which was reported to Colonel Hartsuff, who in turn sunnnoned Surgeon-Major Martin before him and directed that he either retract the statement that he had made, make good the allegation which was contained in it, or undergo a court-martial ; was that called to your attention? A. I heard nothing of that until long afterwards, and then merely in a conver- sational way. At least I have no recollection of the matter at all. I think I would have, had the matter occurred. Q. Dr. Conner wishes me to ask you this — it is not a fact; it is simply to get your opinion — that is, that if Dr. Martin had made that statement and subsequent events justified it, was that sufficient in yoiir judgment to have threatened him with a court-martial? A. That would depend ui^on the whole conditions, of which I could not give an opinion until I was familiar with the whole subject. Q. It is fair to say that, as far as Colonel Hartsuff is concerned, it was stated to him that Dr. Martin was circulating this generally about the unsanitary condition of things there, and I have no doubt that that may liave materially influenced liim in what he said in regard to it. Have you any recollection of the communication addressed by A. Hartsuff, deputy surgeon-general of the United States Army and chief surgeon of Camp GJeorge II. Thomas, to the adjutant-general, in which he says: "I have just made a partial inspection of the Second Division, Third Corps, and find the sanitary conditions in many respects bad, especially is that the case in the First Mississippi and First and Second Arkansas. The camps of the regi- ments named are thoroughly unsanitary. There are lai-ge numbers of typlioid- fever cases in each regiment. I recommend an innnediate change of camp." A. Is there any indorsement on it? Q. No, sir; not in the copy that we have. A. If that is an authentic paper, it would undoubtedly refer to General Wade. By General Dodge: Q. That is the paper that Colonel Hartsuff refers to in his testimony. A. You will find disposition made of that in the records at lieadquarters. A MA.T. GEN. JOHN P. BROOKE. 3083 matter of that kind would have beeu referred to General Wade, if the conditions were such. Q. Upon examination, as is indicated in this letter, very summary action would have been taken, I think. By Captain Howell: (^. Now, G-eneral, for information, I want to ask, supposing that the doctor referred that to General Wade, it went to your headciuarters and your adjutant- general referred it to General Wade, and then he would have looked into the mat- ter, and if necessary for anything to have been done he would have done what was necessary? A. Of course. (^. On the 1 7th of July Colonel Hartsuflf addressed a letter to the adjutant-gen- er;d, as follows: "Camp George H. Thomas, "Office of Chief Surgeon, ''ChicJcmrunfga Park, Ga., July 17, IS'JS. "The Adjutant-General, Camp Georcfc H. TJwmas. "Sir: I have the honor to make sanitary recommendations as follows: "First. That the Signal Corps be moved to another camp ground. They have occupied the present camp ground several months, and, owing to the regent large increases of the company, the}' are now too much crowded. Their large corral is too close to their camp and to head(iuarters. It is difficult to keep their camp grounds and corral clean, and they are not kept clean. 'Second. That a number of sites — as few as possible — bo selected and conven- iently located for dumping grounds for this whole jiark; that all the dumping grounds be remote from wells, springs, and creeks, and on high, open ground, from which there can be no contamination to water supply, and where the mate- rials can be destroyed by fire; as much as possible. It would be well to have the limits of the dumping grounds well defined and the area reduced as much as pos- sible, not only because it would be less of a nuisance in a small area, but if this park is to be occupied as a camp ground a long time, as much clean, unpolluted territory as possible should be preserved. At present the grounds are rapidly being covered by garbage, each regiment having its own dumping grounds. "Third. That, so far as possible, all the regiments of this command change camp. Many of the regiments have been in camp two months or more without a change, and the camp has become more or less saturated. I think a change will be largely beneficial to health of each regiment; and especially would that be the case if in connection with the change each regiment or brigade should leave the park and make easy marches for a few days and return into a new, clean camp. "Fourth. That if the First Division, First Corps, is to remain in camp here for more than a few days, then the division hospital of that division should be moved on to l)etter ground. The hospital named has been on the ground where it is two months or more. The ground is low and flat, with little, if any, natural drainage, and is now especially objectionable because of its long occupancy. Then^ are beautiful locations for a hospital on Snodgrass Hill, which I have personally inspected, and General Boynton says he will be glad to bore wells there for the hospital as soon as it is determined to locate one there. "Fifth. The sanitary condition of Lytle is a menace to the health of the troops of this park, and a nuisance in every particular. It slumld be thoroughly cleaned and kept properly policed; or, so far as possible, none of the forces of this com- mand other than those authorized should be permitted to go into the town for any purpose whatever. "Sixth. That all wells, springs, water holes, etc., that have been condemned, or that are at all suspicious, should be filled up or destroyed, as far as possible, so that drinking water can not be obtained from them. 3084 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. "Seventh. That the attention of division, brigade, and regimental commanders be especially directed to the great importance of using the filters recently issued by the Quartermaster's Department, and that no water not filtered through those filters, or boiled, should be used for drinking purposes. A strict observance of the directions recommended here as to the use of drinking water would surely drive typhoid fever and some other diseases from this camp and command. '■ Eighth. That all hucksters, i^eddiers of food and drink, other than those author- ized to sell eggs and pure milk, be entirely kept out of this command and away from this park. A great many hucksters are on these park grounds daily, and each day they sell all kinds of foods and drinks. Melons and poor fruit in large quantities are daily sold here. '•Ninth. That there should be a very careful general supervision of all the can- teens in this park; that all food dangerous under any circumstances to the health of the command be excluded, and that drinks in quality and (quantity be regulatetl . '•An observance of the above recommendations will, I am sure, materially reduce the sick and death list of this command and ke^) the men in ranks, and thus very substantially promote the efficiency of the command. " Very respectfully, '• A. Hartsupf, ''Deputy Surgeon-General, U. S. A., CJdef Surgeon. "A true copy." Q. Was that communication called to your attention? A. No, sir; that communication was, from the date of it, written on July 17, while 1 was here in Washington and General Wade was in command; but 1 have no doubt it received the attention it merited. Q. At the time this communication was written you were not in the camp: and how long did ycjii remain here in Washington? A. Until, I thinlc, about the 20th or 21st. Q. And you left Camp Thomas on what date? A. On the morning of the 23d. Q. So that after the date of that communication you were in Camp Thomas about two days? A. The fact is there are a good many things like that that are open to contro- versy; people make statements there about the allowances, etc., and all sort of stuff in a camp, that is not true, absolutely untrue; the camp was under a very strict supervision, with a very excellent provost guard of regular troops led by regular officers, who were responsible to me. Q. And that supervision had been instituted at what time? A. Oh, early; about the beginning of June. The huckster business was taken in hand jiist as soon as 1 was satisfied that the men began to know how to take care of themselves. I did not care to cut oft" the supplies of pies, cakes, and things of that kind until they began to know how to handle their ovens and knew how to cook. I instituted a very rigid course in regard to the ujjsetting of this sort of thing, and followed it out as I have stated in my general remarks. I kept there two regular organizations, one trooj) of cavalry and one of infantry, which were given particularly in charge of those sort of matters — provost guard— and there was no departure in any instance. Every week, and I may say daily, every huck- ster's wagon was scrutinized, and every infraction of their permit was met with the revocation of it. That thing continued all the time that I was in command of that camp, to my knowledge. The reports came to me; and if I was absent from headquarters, they canH> to General Sheridan every evening. The matter of Lytle had received my attention. It was not on the reservation at all, nor under its control. Whenever it got to be annoying — it was annoying all the time — I put my guards there and would not let the men go in. That was pretty generally MAJ. (JEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3085 understood. In the town of Chattanoogji there was ;i ;,a-eat deal of loose work being done in the way of inducing men to drink heavily, and I found it necessary at one time to send provost guard to that city and bring up a very large number of soldiers, who came out in a very dilapidated condition from resistance to the guard and from the effect of their potations. After that there was but two men in a company permitted to go on pass on any day. I received a very great deal of petitioning from the people of the town to revoke that order; I did not; the effect was very good on general discipline. I had formerly permitted absences of the troops to be regulated by division, brigade commanders, and, of course, com- manders of corps, where it was in a separate command, but I found it was being abused and I remedied it in that way, and it continued some time later; after I left tliere those orders were in operation. I think the commission could ascertain more from tliose who personally are cognizant of the facts. Q. Your order limiting the passes to two was revoked and increased to six? A. I think so: and as to the sale of injurious edibles, which I considered injuri- ous, Colonel Hartsuff's remark there is ex post facto. I did not regard his letter in a very serious sense [referring to letter], I do not know how he came to write it. There was much complaint in that camp from men of his own profession as to his action. He caused me more trouble and annoyance than anyone ever did. When I left that camp, with the advance of my corps, with the expectation at the time that the corps would follow me under the orders Tinder which I was operating, my chief surgeon, Huidekoper. came to me with a list and .said. •• Gen- eral, I can not get these things. We are going out of the country. We have drawn up to the full extent of the supply table, which was Colonel Hartsuff's apparent limit of issue, and I do not know what to do — Colonel Hartsuff won't aiiprove of this." I said to him, '' Have you got on this all that you want?'" He said, '• Yes; I think so."' I said, " Look it over and be sure of it; and if it is not there, put it on. Are the supplies here? " He replied, " Yes; they are here." He went away and brought back a revised list. I did not examine the items. I said, "Is this what you want?" and he answered, '• Yes; this is what I want." I said, "Do you know this?"' He answered, "Yes." Then I said, "'You shall have it, sir; take that to Colonel Hartsuff and make the statement which you have made to me: and if you don't get it, bring this back to me." He went to Colonel Hart- suff', came back, and made the remark that it was in excess of the allowance (I think the term " of the supply table" was used), and I then took the paper and wrote in my own hand, "Approved; issue;" signed my own name and rank. In all cases where there was a difference between Colonel Hartsuff" and the officers of that department, which was brought to my attention, I comiielled the issue of what was proper. Q. That is all that is proper from j-our standpoint? A. From the standpoint of the officer who satisfied me that he was not unrea- sonable in his demands. I have heard since that I had been criticised upon taking hold of that sort of thing 1)efore. In every instance, gentlemen, when the thing was brought to my attention I have not failed to exercise my prerogative, when it was necessary to do so. Q. That is, that the commander in the field commands— that the several dei)art- ments are responsible to him and he had control over them? A. Yes, sir; and further than that, when we got to Porto Rico, and where we found conditions there were appalling as regards health, when our men were going down by hundreds under clijnatic effects— I had taken my corps ambidance train and hospital department along there with me. so that the five thousand some hundred men that were directly with me could be taken care of, and they were taken care of— and yet, to think when opening original packages of hospital tent supplies the canvas was found to be rotten— original packages that had never been opened since purchase; you could take the canvas and tear it as you would a 3086 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAIJ WITH SI'AIN. piece of paper. All that was ilone, and I was taking with me 1(1, (JOO hospital tents and a good many tents as a sort of reserve supply to have theui on hand if neces- sity shonld arise. I never was under canvas there myself at all. It was not nec- essary, and it was used by the troops in the hospitals there. Had it not been for those extra supplies of tents there wovild have been much suffering. By General Beaver: Q. Was that what was called the reserve hospital at Camp Thomas? A. It was the reserve hospital of the First Army Corps. If it had not been for these sujiplies of mine and for other things which were taken down they would have been in very desperate sti'aits. (^. In how many instances. General, as you recall, were you called upon by the medical officers inferior in grade to Colonel Hartsuif to interfere? A. Only in one or two. if I recollect. Q. That is. one or two in addition to the one you mentioned? A. In each instance where it was not apparent to me that there was no particu- lar necessity for action I wovild send for Colonel Harts uff, and in every case he assui-ed me that they did not need the supplies of medicines, and I would give him directions on the general principle that it was better to issue these svipplies to these people than to make a mistake the other way. Q. Yes. A. And I have reason to think that that was done in regard to this location, which he speaks of there in the First Division hospital. He located it himself, and I criticised it when I first saw it very sharply, and suggested that there was room right behind us; there were ample facilities there and it was not too far away. I do not know how much of these things he said, but the location was either his or the officer he put in charge of it, or both. I finally directed him i^ersonally to go there and take charge of that hospital and untangle the difficulties he seemed to have gotten in. Q. Colonel Hartsuff has told us that he did take charge of that hospital; was that by your direction? A. By my personal orders. Q. General Brooke, did you have a sufficient and efficient staff at Chickamauga? A. I dont think so. Q. You spoke .some time ago of the staff officers of the supply department being trammeled to some extent by the centralization which had been occurring up in the staff departments for a long time. Wliat special departments did yoii include in the supply departments? A. It was the Quartermaster's, the Commissary, the Ordnance particularly. Q. And the Medical? A. The Medical to a certain extent. Tliere has always l>een a great deal of lati- tude permitted by the Medical Department, by the chief of it. The Engineer Department has had great latitude, so far as my knowledge of it goes— it has been very slight — my personal knowledge— of late years. They have had two or three oificers to devote much attention to strictly military matters. ■ Q. Bo that your remark applied particularly to Subsistence, Quartermaster "s^— A. To the supply department. Q. In the Medical Department, you had on your staff Lieutenant-Colonel Huide- kojier, of Pennsylvania, whose administration of it has been the subject of a very large amount of adverse criticism, both as to his professional knowledge and as to his administrative capacity and as to the manner in which he actually admin- istered the affairs of his department. Will you give us what your estimate of him as a staff officer is, professionally and otherwise? A. When he left me I regarded him as one of the best examples of onr volunteer service. When he first came to me he was ignorant of the methods in vogue, and MAJ. GEN. JOHN i;. BROOKE. 3087 lie was like all men suddenly confronted with the occult condition to them. He was very mnch hampered by it. Itis well known that the system of army accounts is i^eculiar to itself. There is nothing like it in the business world that I know of, in the manner of keeping its records and accounts. All that was new, i)articularly to the medical officers of the volunteer service, and it was a great struggle to them all: but he finally accomplished it and became a very efficient, able administra- tor of his department. Q. Had you opportunities of forming an opinion of his rirofessional (pialifica- tions? A. Not much; not more than his application of his proi'essional knowledge to his duty. In that I could form an opinion, so far as it was worth anything. Q. Well, what was that opinion? A. A very high opinion; a man of very broad education. That is the ojiinion I arrived at after knowing him more thoroughly and seeing him at work in his department. t^. To what do you attribute, then, the widespread feeling against him? A. There an' several causes, 1 should think; I can only give my opinion of them. They may all be wrong. First, he was energetic in carrying out what was to the volunteer service a very unpojiular effort ou the part of the Mt dical Department of the Army to organize in a certain way which was, I believe, correct and neces- sary and proper, biit defective in that it took from the regiments— and these regiments were over 1 ,300 strong— the medical officers which should have been with them, and their assistants. It is well known to everyone who has served in the Army in campaigns that there are, possibly, amongst 1,300 men possibly 200 of them who would be ailing in some minor way daily, who need assistance; it would retiuire a very careful rapid service of the three surgeons allowed to a regiment to attend to the sick call of that regiment. It is doubtful whether they would be sufficient to carry it through. (^. That is, within the time allowed for it? A. Within the time, or in the whole day, in fact, to do it justice. That was the defect. It was apparent to me at the outset, but there was nothing to do but to carry it out. Huidekoper carried it out successfully so far as he could. The Surgeon-General himself told me that he had asked Congress for officers to com- plete the hospital arrangement without disturbing, as 1 understood him, those pertaining to regiments, and it had not been granted. He had not been able at that time, as I further understood him, to employ physicians, contract surgeons, as we call them, who came into the service finally in great numbers. That is the system the carrying out of which caused a great deal of unpleasant feeling on the part of men who did not seem to have broad views, and Huidekoper had no time to sit down and convince people that they were wrong and he was right. It is a most difficult thing anyhow. Q. That he was not responsil)le for the orders, but simply carried out what was imposed upon him. Well, that is one reason? A. That is the only one I know. Q. He is rather a brus(iue man? A. Decidedly. He is a big man, strong man physically. Naturally you would l(.ok for him— he would call a spade a spade. Q. Do you think his manners had anything to do with the feeling against him? A. That I do not know. I have seen otlier men more bruscine, more brutal ( not to say that he was brutal) in their manners tlian he. but they did not have his physique and probably did not carry so much weight with it. Q. There is a specific allegation. General, containediii a communication addressed to us by a citizen of Illinois, who says in his communication that he had a sou in the Third Illinois Regiment (I think it is the name of M. T. Maloney). wlio speaks not of personal knowledge, but of what some man in the hospital told him, and 3088 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAll WITH SPAIN. thut was that Colonel Huidekoper was of intemperate habits. Do you know of his having been under the influence of licjuor when on duty or when he ought to have been on duty? A. No. I don't believe that story. Huidekoper is a gentleman. He is a man of the highest sense of duty. I never saw him — and 1 have seen him at all hours, day and night — when he showed any evidence of influence of liquor. Q. Do you know Mr. Maloney? A. I have seen him. Q. Did he bring to your personal attention anything relating to the affairs of the hospital or as to the manner in which the men were buried at Porto Rico? A. Yes; in one instance. Q. What was that? A. The burial of a man of the Fourth Pennsylvania Regiment after the regi- ment left. The man died, as I understood, of typhoid fever. He was very much excited about it. He and the chai^lain of the Third Illinois attempted to manage the funeral. There was some hitch. The proper orders were given from my head(iuarters by my adjutant-general, the man being in the general hospital. A detail as an escort and all the other arrangements were made for the funeral at a certain hour. An investigation of that was had afterwards on this complaint, and it was shown, as I remember, that the chaplain was more to blame; that he had promised the chaplain of the Fourth Pennsylvania to bury the dead of that regiment, and he supposed he was responsible; but between them, in some way, they took the body off" in the ambulance to the cemetery and buried it. How it ever happened has not been entirely clear to me. Mr. Maloney made it an opportunity to make a great fuss, for which I consider that he and the chaplain were to blame; the exact proportion of blame resting on either was a difficult matter to decide upon. It was one of those cases which you often find — you have met chaplains who have peculiar ideas as to their authoritative functions, etc., as well as the politician wlio was down there trying to get votes of the Third Illinois. His son was in that regiment, and he came to uie and wanted a fui'lough for him. I supposed he wanted him to go home. I gave him a furlough of sixty days. I don"t know that ho over took advantage of it; probaljly not. I think it would have been well if I had invited iMr. IMaloney to go home, or at least leave the limits of my command. He was not a pleasant factor in discipline at all. for such reasons as I have been stating. Q. He sends a very long communication here, covering 14 pages, the most of it relating to " Dr. Hiedekoper," as he calls him. I will not trouble you with that, because the most of it I know you would not know anything about. I simiily refer to the few things in which he brings you into relation with the man; but here is a statement of his which is perhaps worthy of some attention. Speaking of the supply of food, he says: " The provisions furnished the soldier, ii' good, was fairly plentiful, but they were all bad, or mostly bad. Out oi ten days' rations of potatoes, not sufficient for two days could bo found, and then canned tomatoes were furnished to make up the deficiency. The tomatoes were bad, swelled. I have driven a bayonet into many of these cans, and when withdrawn the inside would squirt ten feet into the air. Thej' were made eatable by the mixture of large doses of soda. Two hundred thousand pounds of fresh beef purchased of Swift & Co., of Chicago, was on the Massachusetts, above referred to. Three hundred thousand pounds from the same company was conveyed to Porto Rico on the Maiiitoha, all of which, or nearly all, was tainted, unfit for use, and destroyed after it arrived at Porto Rico. There are more cattle in Porto Rico to the S(faare mile than in any State in this Union. To carry fresh meat from Chicago to Porto Rico was much worse than carrying coals to Newcastle. I have traveled to the west of the island, and the center of it, and all along the point of which I an; now speaking, and I know whereof MAJ. GEN. JOHN K. BKoOKE. 3089 I speak. The most easily procurable thing on the i.sland, and at the least possible cost, was fresh iiicat. A few ice machines could be readily transported to that island, and would only occupy a little space in the doing. There was plenty of fuel to operate such machines, to procure ice therefrom, to cool meat when killed on the island. Oijr Government knew these facts or it tlidn"t. If it did know, it was terrible; if it did not, it Avas equally so. Thirty-eight jier cent of the Ohio regiment were sick, over 30 per cent of the Third Illinois were sick, and all, or mostly all, can bo charged to the improi^er treatment of those soldiers, both in transportation and the food which was received after binding upon the island." We have had an explanation as to the meat business from the Commis- sary-General, who said it was, in his judgment, improper to kill and use that meat on the island, because it could not be furnished to the men without the ani- mal heat without artificial cooling, and he was putting up an ice plant now with reference to that, but the supply for a time was best made, as he believed, from great establishments here in refrigerator compartments on the vessel; but as to the general food, had you knowledge of the food supplied to the men at Porto Rico? A. Intimate knowledge. i^. What is your knowledge in regard to that? Was the food good or bad? A. Excellent. He is wrong about the amount. There were 150,000 pounds on the Mas.sdcli nscfts only. All that we used in that command that was immediately with me. a little over 5,000 men, I think about 100,000 pounds before the ship got oiit of our reach. Wherever there was a deficiency of fresh vegetables, potatoes, and onions we bought them right there. As to the matter of beef supply, there are plenty of cattle— fine ones- on that island; but you, as a general, or you, Gen- eral Dodge [turning to General Dodge] , would not leave this food item in the hands of an invading army. You would drive it away, and you would destroy all their food supplies. No; the Commissary Department was right. Q. The Commissary-General stated also that under his contract with Swift & Co. they were not only compelled to land the food there in good condition, but they guaranteed its being sweet and pure for seventy-two hours after being landed, if properly handled— that is, covered with canvas and kept in the shade. Is that a fact or not? A. I never tried that. Q,. Do you know as to whether or not that is the contract? A. I do not know positively. Q. What I was going to say, if there was any destroyed, it was, of course, at the expense of the meat company and did not cost the Government anything? A. It was elegant meat. There is no question about it. It was landed in splendid condition, and we hauled it 5 miles. C^. Did you use it in your command? A. Oh, yes. I used the other, too. Q. Which? A. The tomatoes. Q. Do you know what efforts are being made there now to take advantage of the cattle on the island? A. No. not particularly. We are using the native beef, much the same as the natives do— the people of the island. There is or was landed from the steamer Berlin on her last trip a refrigerator plant of Swift & Co., at San Juan, being erected near the Government storehouse. It was not finished when I came away. Whether it was designed to bring American beef there or not I do not know, biit I do know that the cattle on the island there are very fine ones; in fact, it is the supplying point for all the adjacent islands, way down on the Windward Island. They are fine cattle and well bred. Those killed about in the towns are generally, so far as I could observe, worked cattle. All the bulls are worked as bulls m the 7833 — V(>-L. 44 3090 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUC^J' OF WAK WITH SPAIN. yoke, in the Spanish yoke, lashed to the horns and the yoke lashed to the pole of the cart. So far as I know, I don't thinl: any hut that class of cattle were killed in the abattoir, but I have seen them on these big plantations where they were very fine cattle, very fine. Q. What was the bread supply of the army in Porto Rico; was it confined to hard bread or were bakeries erected? A. At this place, Guayama, we had a portable oven— (juite a number of them— and we had bakers hired from the Subsistence Department, and they made bread, and it was good bread; but the natives made better bread than that, so arrange- ments were made to turn the flour over to the native baker and receive its equiva- lent in bread, which was as good as any of the bread you eat here. Q. As to the vegetables, you say they were purchased in the neighborhood? A. The Commissary Department sends down to the islands, both of them— Cuba and Porto Rico— in shipments every week ten days' supply, expecting to last at least three days, possibly, over, and they often do, and onions and potatoes. Q. From your personal knowledge, then, was the food furnished to your com- mand sufficient in (luantity and good in quality? A. Excellent. Q. Were you personally familiar with the condiict of the hospital, both at Chickamauga Park and in Porto Rico; and if so, to what extent? A. To the extent that a commander would naturally be visiting them, not going in amongst them to disturb them very much. Now and then I would walk thrcnigh the wards. This was particularly the case in the hospitals in that part of Chicka- mauga camp which was imder my immediate command. You will understand, I felt a delicacy in interfering with the Third Corps, for its commander was there— an able man, conversant with his duties in all ways, and, as a general, saw things right there; and when I saw things to criticise, 1 didn't care to criticise them, but in my own corps I saw the hospitals. The hospital of the Third Division was established on a point where you see there the South Carolina Regiment and the Ninth Pennsylvania Regiment, off through the course of that knoll there; it was a good locality [pointing to chart in room]. It was an ideal hospital in its construction, and the one in the Second Division was in the vicinity of right west from the headquarters of the division where the division headciuarters are. It was a very fine one. The only one I ever criticised was the First Division hos- pital, which was, as I understood it, placed by Colonel Hartsuff or through his instr umentality . Q. What did you observe as to the administration of these several hospitals, particularly those in your corps, and what, if anything, was done to remedy any delects that you may have observed in their administration? A. Up to the time I left there there was no defect in the Second and Third Divisions that I ever heard of. There was some trouble in the First Division, a matter of administration, and I sent Colonel Hartsuff there. I directed him to go over and straighten it out and stay there until it was straightened out, and sent Major Mason, corps medical inspector, with him. I asked him frequently afterwards how he was getting on , and he said he was progressing. What progress he was really making I do not know. It is a matter which re(iuires technical administrative knowledge of the department. Q. And believing yoii had a capable staff officer, yoii left it to him? A. He was a lieutenant-colonel in the Regular Army and had great experience in the hospital during the war. Naturally I expected him to devote time and attention to correcting evils wherever they might occur. Q. In this instance was the evil remedied as reported to you? A. He reiwrted it remedied. Q. Now, as to Porto Rico, General, what was the character and extent of the MAJ. UEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3<»91 ■ !;n- sb there, and to what extent were you able to give proper attention to the A. Me, individually? ' . No; in your command. A. At one time, with 12,000 men, the sick list amounted to 2,500 men. That ;i.c"uded, of course, a certain number of sick men left over from those regiments > i lit had been withdrawn. Altogether there were between 17,000 and 18,000 men : ;i the island, as near as I can remember. This sick list was diminished by trans- ferring to the United States in the hospital ships and convalescent ships all those 111 u. When I left there, on the 5th of December, the sick list throughout the isiiiiid was down (juite low. The exact number Icould not state, but I should think i; wer whether it was a regimental. brigade, or division— in which they did begin at half past 4. Colonel Denby. And it was changed to 5.30. General Beavek. I don't remember what the order was. 1 don't think it was from your headquarters. It went too much into details. 3092 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Governor Woodbury. I think Colonel Hartsuff said, in answer to a question some one asked him as to the cause of sickness, that the drilling before breakfast was one of the causes. The Witness. If there was anything of that kind done it was unauthorized, and it did not reach me. I doubt very much whether there was anything of the kind. Q. I asked you in general as to Dr. Huidekoper's habits. Governor Woodbury thinks I ought to read you a jiortion of Mr. Maloney"s communication. He speaks of the hospital: " At this time the ordinary food for those sick boys was boiled onions and fat pork. There was no milk, no eggs, no bread to be had from the Government. Captain Odell and myself had to furnish for that hospital from that time forth, and out of our own pocket, the milk and the eggs, up until about the 5th of September; and bread during the greater part of the linie and u]j until the governmental bakery was opened at Guayama. The doctors told the chaplain that the boiled onions and fat pork that was being iur- nished to those boys in that reserve hospital, who were sick with typhoid fever and other diseases, was simply ijoison. During all this time Colonel Huide- koper. General Brooke, or General Hayes never gave the faintest suspicions that we were doing this, and they all knew it. Tliey never attempted to direct that these things be furnished by the United States Government. It was so common that even a deaf man might have heard that Colonel Huidekoper, during his time in Porto Rico, was nothing but a common drunkard. Two boys at the hos- pital told me that at Arroyo the night after they landed they stole from Colonel Huidekoper two (quarts of whisky; that Huidekoper, about 11 o'clock at night, instead of going to his headtjuarters, laid down under his wagon, and four times before he went to sleep drank out of a quart bottle of whisky; that lie placed the others under his head, and when he got up in the morning and went away he for- got the other bottles of whisky, which the boys appropriated. This latter, of course, is hearsay, but the boj's can be produced."' What there is in that that relates to yourself is that you knew that these gentlemen were furnishing supplies to the hospital, and notwithstanding that knowledge took no steps to furnish the proper food from the Government. A. That part is false. The part relating to Huidekoper's drunkenness is false absolutely. There is no question about it. Ergo, the whole thing is tainted with suspicion. There is no (luestion in the world as to the animus of that man in my mind, nor any other one who knew him. The fact that the chaplain furnished milk, eggs, and things of that kind was never known to me, and I was about that hospital a good deal, and in so far as matters were concerned about that hospital, it was there that I did give personal attention to certain sanitary measures which even Huidekoper, for some reason or other, overlooked. He was very much interested in the sick, very much, and I don't believe— I don't know it— but I don't believe that Huidekoper was drunk at any time during his service on my staff. By General Dodge: Q. General, did the Government have the supplies on hand at that time suitable for the sick as much as they retiuired? A. Not in delicacies, no; bat there was every effort made to get them, and the thing of fat pork is absurd. Q. They had the funds to purchase them where they could in that country? A. No; I don't know that they had that. Q. Wasn't order No. 110 in force there? A. He is mistaken in the dates. On the Hth of September the headquarters were not there; they were at Rio Pedras, 15 miles frcmi San Juan. Huidekoper Was not there. On the 2d of September about 125 of the convalescents from that hos- MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3093 pital and the regiments at Guayama went home on the steamer Panama, under the charge of Dr. Daly, of General Miles"s staff. I think it was the 2d of Sep- t, JS9S. "Capt. C. F. Goodrich, U. S. N., "U. S. S. St. Louis. "Captain: I can not refrain from expressing to you my gratification at the complete and comfortable arrangements which were made on board j'our ship for the transportation of my headquarters and the Third Illinois Infantry from Fort- ress Monroe to this point. The uniform courtesy and consideration shown by yourself and officers will always be a pleasant remembrance of this time of war. "Trusting that all your future may be as bright and as pleasant as your eminent qualities deserve. I ain, "Very truly, yours, J. R. Brooke, Major-Gcneral." The Witness. That was written at the time with a knowledge of the facts. Of course there are some discomforts in people's minds. Some seem exceedingly felicitous in studying the inhabitants of the deep sometimes. General Beaver. This is the testimony to which I referred, General. The offi- cer testifying was Capt. Frank Moore, Ninth Pennsylvania: "A. I want to volunteer a little testimony. We were veqiiired to get up at 4.30 in the morning. ■Tai)s were at 9. I do not think the men received anywhere rest enough, and they were worked out: did not receive tho amount of rest that nature requires, and the men became in a worn-out condition from steady jading from 4.30 in the morning till at night. I might compare it to the hack horse that is hacked all the time. "Q. What was the object of having reveille at 4.30? "A. That was an order from the corps commander. I can furnish you the roster. "Q. Then you had your breakfast after reveille and roll call? "A. Roll call and mess. Roll call about a quarter of 5; mess at 5. The cooks had to get up usually at 2 o'clock to prei)are tlie breakfast and also detail the men to split the wood. The wood furnished was that green yellow pine wood, and a good many men were re(iuired to split it. It kept three or four men together all the time to split the wood. "Q. What time was drill in the morning after breakfast? "A. Mess at 5, and I think the drills would commence at O or 6.30. Tho roster varied. We would get a new one evei-y few days. "Q. He never changed the order about reveilleV Diil he have reveille at 4.30 right straight along? MA.T. GKN. JOHN R. BUOOKE. 3095 '•'A. No, sir; that was changed. The srcoml one, I think, was 4.15, and then another came at 5, and I believe the hist change was the most easy time that wo got. It was 5.;J0; that was in September. Taps were always at 0, but we did no drilling— comparatively no drilling— after we moveil over in the Smith-White iield. Then we were not in condition to drill." By General Beaver: Q. Is it your opinion, General, that the men had more work in that camp than was good for the health of green men coming into camp? A. No. I haVe always thought there was too much time allowed for running the guard and getting off and having a "time,' as they call it. It was necessary for me to place a picket guard along the north end of the park to stop this tramping all the way to Rossville. Q. What was the effect upon the c(mdition of the troops caused by the tendency to go to Chattanooga? A. What do you mean? Q. Did that demoralize the health of the troops as well as their discipline? A. Yes; it demoralized their health ver^' seriously in some cases, I understand, from venereal trouble and in drinking of the vile whisky in those dens in Chat- tanooga that they furnished them, which was demoralizing to their manhood in both cases. Q. Looking at your administration at Camp Tliomas, General Brooke, with your knowledge and experience both with volunteer troops and with regulars, do you see now any way in which you couid have improved the conditions which existed there during the time you were in command? A. No, sir; I do not see anything which could have been improved on there. Q. Is there anything which you would like to say in regard to that or in regard to Porto Rico. General. aboTit which we have not int(>rrogated you? A. No, there is nothing. I think I have said everything 1 can think of in con- nection with the subject. By Dr. Conner: Q. General, were any sanitary orders issued by jou at Chickamauga? ■ A. Very positive ones. Q. At how early a time. A. At the beginning of the volunteer encampment. Q. Was there more than a single order issued or a second order repeating the first? A. The second order carried through. Q. Was that order obeyed? A. It was. Q. It is very largely stated to us that the camp was foul ; that the stench was noticeable to those who were riding on the roads; that regiments for days had no sinks in the world; that every sanitary precaution was being neglected. As 1 understood you this morning, you said that was not a fact? A. In the beginning of their encampment a regiment, until they could got the shovels, picks, and things of that kind, they would probably use the surfiu-e ground as a sink, but that was covered, and the sinks were dug, and the regiments were furnished with lumber, and their sinks were screened. In one instance— I don't recall the regiment— I passed the sinks of tlie regiment, which wore not screened; the pole was up, and it was in the open, and I sent a staff odicu- directly to the colonel of that regiment, who was connnanding a brigade al th(> time, and the sinks were screened the next day. Q. As you 3'ourself observed the conditions, wore tli.w.^ .-onditi-.n-^ that 1 havo mentioned in existence up to the time you left? 3096 INVESTIGAriON OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. No, sir. Q. They were not? A. Not to my knowledge and observation. Q. Do you know whether any officer or colonel, brigade commander, division commander, or anyone else was called to account for the violation of any one of these sanitary rules that you issued? A. Frequently. Q. Was any man so called to account that his position was imperiled as an officer of the army? A. Not necessarily under the school of instruction. Q. Now, as respects the hosiiitals, were you officially or otherwise informed that your hospitals were being badly administered, other than the one you have spoken of ? A. No, sir. Q. If they had been badly administered you would have known it? A. Unquestionably. Q. In what respect did you consider they were well administered? A, In all respects visible to me. Q. How would you regard the condition that prevailed in the Third Army Corps as under your view and care? A. In so far as I have observed, I could see no fault to find except in the loca- tion of the tents of the Second Division of the Third Corps, (^. Then up to the time you left, which was about the 2;jd of July, the hospitals of Camp Thomas were properlj' administered and properly managed and carried out in every resjiect? A. So far as I could see, with the exceptions I have noted. Q. Were not frequent reports made to you that the conditions were not good? A. No, sir. Q. Did your medical officers report on the conditions of these hospitals? A. Always. Q. Were any recommendations made to you by your chief surgeon or any other medical officer, which recommendation was not regarded by you? A. No. There were recommendations made which, as you have seen in this documentary evidence here— a letter which was thrashing over old straw, things that had been accomplished long before and were not then live issues. Q. Was your chief medical officer making recommendations to you that were not regarded by you? A. I don't understand that question. Q. Was your chief medical officer, who was Dr. Hartsuff, making frequent recommendations to you which were not l)y you regarded? A. No. Q. Were they in all cases regarded, weighed, and determined by your best judgment? A. Yes, sir. Q. You stated to us this morning that there were numerous complaints against Dr. Hartsuff. Of what nature were they? A. In his want of appreciation of the situation— conditions as regards the want of medicines and hospital supplies. Q. Was there an actual want of medicines and hospital supplies at that camp diiring the time you were in command? A. In the beginning. Q. Did that continue up to the time you left? A. No, sir; not entirely. C^. How long was it that these complaints against Dr. Harts jflf were coming to you? MA.T, GEN. JOHN R. BROOKi:. 30U7 A. The}' were coming to me now uud then during the whole time of my .stay- there. Q. Were they of such a nature as to make it advisable to call the attention of higher authorities to what he was di ling and the way he was doing it? A. Not at all, sir. I considered myself thoroughly competent to meet the case. Q, Did you correct these evils and see to it that the comiilaints, if well founded, were not made afterwards respecting him? A. I corrected it for the time being and corrected it whenever it came up. There were some very sharp words passed from me to him on freciuent occasions. Q. Did you find him in all respects an efficient officer on your staff? A. Not entirely. Q. In what respects? A. His want of appreciation of the situation was the principal. Q. Was he. in his actions, governed liy the rules and regulations of the Army? A. N(jt as I considered it. Q. Was there an order issued placing all division hospitals under your care? A. No, sir; not to my recollection. Q. Was there an order issued which relieved the division commanders of having anything to do with their division hospitals? A. Certainly not. q. We have been informed that division commanders were relieved of their authority liy you? A. I would like to see the paper. Q. I think General Sanger testified to that effect. Did you, as commanding officer, regard the division commanders as having command over their hospitals? A. Certainly. Q. Did you regard them responsible for tlie conditions existing there? A. Entirely. C^. If, under these circumstances, the hospitals were badly administered, where did the responsibility for such maladministration rest? A. The administering of the hospitals is peculiarly in the province of the sur- geon. He is answerable to his commander. There is nothing in the regulations or the customs of the service which would excuse him from the responsibility of his commanding ofBcer that I am aware of, and this letti'r [holding letter in his hand] , taken as a whole, conveys that idea. I do claim the right in all instances to send my inspectors, and General Sanger, being an inspector, knows it fully well that he can go, and particularly these officers in their administrative capacity can go to their subordinates without going through him. It is the regulations of the War Department— of the Army. Q. With the exception of the Leiter Hospital, was there any general liospital ni Camp Thomas? A. No; not to my knowledge. Q. General hospitals were under the control of the Surgeon-General, were they not? A. They were. , r . , t ■ • Q. The division hospitals, as I understand, were under the control of thodivision commanders? A Yes sir. Q.* And ultimately the responsibility for everything rested upon the command- ing general of the camp? A. Practically, of that division. Understand mv, the responsibility for any- thing in that division hospital rested upon the general commanding that division. Q. Do you know any division commander, or any corps commander^or any man, yourself included, who proceeded judicially against any medical o&cer fo' maladministration? 3098 INVESTIGATION OP CONDUCT OF WAR WITH BPAIN. A. No, sir; ni)t to my knowledge. Q. Was the maladministration of such a character that such proceedings should have been had? A. What do you mean? Q. The maladministration of the hospitals, if there was such— we will assume for the present there was. If there was maladministration there, was any man judicially proceeded against for such maladministration? A. There was no alleged maladministration. Q. General, the hospitals at Camp Thomas were abominable. A. You make that as a personal observation or from evidence? Q. I understood it as the result of a multitude of evidence before us, and that testimony coming from all classes. General Dodge. That was after the 17th of July. Dr. Conner. Not altogether. The Witness. Will you be good enough to explain a little what you mean by maladministration of the Third Division hospital? Dr. Conner. A hospital which was overcrowded: a hospital which did not receive medicines; a hospital in which there was not proper nursing; a hospital, in a word, which was in a turmoil almost from beginning to end; its chief officers relieved, at least four of them having been in charge within comparatively a short time. The Witness. Who was in charge of them? Dr. Conner. Dr. Bradbury, Dr. Jenne, Dr. Schooler, and Dr. Briscoe, Second Division, Third Army Corps. We understand that came directly under your control and observation. The Witness. That's the case, sir. Q. Now, as you had the power to regulate the medical supplies that were sent to the First Corps when it left there, did you or not have the power to regulate the distribution of the medical supplies to all the organizations in that camp before that time? A. Certainly. Q. Was there any official action taken by yourself to relieve the conditions existing there for the want of medical supplies? A. In the Second Division of the Third Corps? Q. Practically in every one. A. Every effort was made in every case that was brought to my attention to relieve the conditions so far as our supplies went. Q. Was there not a constantly recurring condition of scarcity of medical supplies? A, Yes, sir. Q. And what special efforts were made to correct this condition? A. Application to the Secretary of War from the Surgeon-General of the Army tor more. Q. Were those applications granted? A. In a way; yes, sir. The supplies were coming in all the time. Q. How did it happen that the medical supplies at Camp Thomas were so defective, were supplied so slowly, and were distributed so imperfectly? A. The supply is a matter which is not in my province. The distribution was made by the medical officers to the best of their ability, under the requirements of the service, in all cases that came up, to my knowledge. Q. So far as you know, then. General, the administration of the Medical Department was as satisfactory as it could have been under the existing condi- tions? A. Under the conditions of supply, yes, sir; so far as I know. MA.T. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 3099 By General Beaver: Q. Was there any occasion to prefer charges against anybody lor willful mal- feasance in the performance of their duty— medical administration or otherwise— that came to your knowledge? A. No; not to my knowledge. From the course of the (luestions of Dr. Conner it is manifest that there has been complaint on that score. It is news to me. There was a deficiency of medicines there from the beginning to the end, but as to the condition of the internal alfairs of the Third Corps hospital, whicli was men- tioned, that rested entirely with the chief surgeon of that corps and its commander. It would not necessarily come to me until they had exhausted every measure in their iiower to correct things. I know the commander and know the chief surgeon. A better officer does not, as far as my knowledge of him goes, exist in the Army— that is, Colonel Hoff. He is thorough and complete so far as his authority extends, and in a general way had every capacity to handle anything of that kind that came before him, and he had the complete control of the division hospital and had com- plete control to correct and try any officer who was guilty of anything that came within the Articles of War or the customs of the service. Further than that, it has always been exceedingly difficult, as these gentlemen who have served in the Regu- lar Army can tell you, to convict a doctor of any trouble. Q. I was five years in the Army myself as a doctor during the war and know A. [Interrupting.] It would be very difficult to convict them before a court- martial of anything in a professional way. Q. That was administrative. A. Of course, in administration you can convict them of anything that is brought to trial. By Colonel Denby: Q. Why is that? A. I do not know why it is. I know it is a fact. I have never been on a court- martial where a medical officer has been charged with anything of a professional nature but I have had cases— the same Dr. Shaw, of the Third Illinois, is a man who was tried before a court which I organized. The officers did not belong to his regiment, and that court acijuitted him of every charge, as I r(H-all it now, and that was professional— not mistake in administration— but it would come to that condition where the chief surgeon at that point preferred charges against him and the brigade commander recommended a trial; and I siiy it is exceedingly difficult to convict a medical officer of anything pertaining to his profession, par- ticularly before the laity. By General Beaver: Q. A court composed of the laity? A. Yes, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. Was any medical officer, so far as you know, placed luider arrest for neglect of duty? A. In this one instance. Q. I mean at Chickamaugn. A. Not to my recollection. There might liave been in tho divisions one, but I don't recall it. By General Dodge: Q. General, in your administration of Camp Thomas, when you made applica- tion or request to your superior officers, were your recjiiests and applications always responded to? A. No. 3100 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. In what respect? A. I would like to (naalify that by saying that I have no reason to know that my requests, always going to the Adjutant-General, were sent to the bureaus to which they pertained, and the action was not always prompt or satisfactory; but the con- ditions were such that I at times wrote direct to the chiefs of bureaus and urged the necessity for promiDtness in shipment, pointing out where certain obstacles seemed to arise between points of shipment and destination, etc. I have always got replies to these letters promptly, and it seemed from them that they had done all in their power to meet, so far as they were able, the ro([uireuients. Q. Were their answers satisfactory to you that they were making proper efforts? A. I so understood that they were making pi'oper efforts. Q. You have had in your command a great many officers of the staff" depart- ments who were civil appointments. What, in your opinion, was the effic-iency of these officers? Were they officers who took interest in their duties and endeav- ored to become efficient, and did they in the pi'oper time become efficient officers? A. They all took interest in their duties. Some of them became proficient; others less so. I don't recall anyone now who was an utter failure, but some men are so constituted that they can grasp the situation better than other men. They are quicker. Their brains woi'k quicker. Others are slower to appreciate the condi- tions they are to meet. By Governor Woodbury: Q. Did you find any such pei'sons in the Regular Army? A. Very seldom, because they have had a good deal of experience in the initial work, not because they are more brainj^ men. By General Dodge: Q. If these men had the same experience A. [Interrupting.] Experience is all they wanted. The enthusiasm was there, and the desire was there. It was the knowledge as to how to do it. Q. I want to call your attention to the testimony of C'olonel Hartsuff referring to the location of the camps. He said: "A. It is the custom on the part of the commanding officer to consult the med- ical officer. The medical officer could not do anj^thing or say anything without having an opportunity presented to him. As regiments were located, I did not know, as chief medical officer, where they were to lie located. After they were located, as chief i^^edical officer I protested as to the location. " Q. On what grounds did you protest? "A. In some cases the regiments were located on rocky ground, and in .some cases on low ground, where the surface drainage was not as it shouhl ha\'e been, and in some cases the regiments were put in too close together. " Q. When you ijrotested against these defects, were they remedied? "A. No, sir." A. I have no recollection of jwotests on that ground. We may have liad some, but I don't recall it. By General Beaver: Q. As I understand it. you designated the general ground upon which they were to be encamped? A. It was left to the division and brigade commanders. By General Dodge: Q. He also testifies as to his protesting against the dumping ground. I think he refers to tliat letter written on 1lie 17th of July. A. Th(^ duini)ii!g grounds were designated. The refuse of the camp was burned, as a rule, right in the camp or near it in a convenient spot. The manure from MA.I. GKN. .TOIIN. W. BROoKP:. 3101 horses and mules was hauled to the general place, where it alscj was burned, and as long as I was there I don't recall any phice where any considerable accumula- tion of manure, which was the only accumulation that seemed necessary to dry before being burned, existed. Q. You received the order to organize the Third Corps of that camp? Did you luiderstand that to be a permanent camp or temporary camp? A. That I could not say. Of course I took it to mean that as fast as organized they would be moved out into the service. Q. After the beginning of July, before you left there, did you have under con- sideration and have plans for moving all these troops? A. Moving the Third Division of the Third Army Corps to the point parallel to and to some distance in the rear of the First Division, between it and the Second Division. Q. Had you in your mind the changing of the camjis of any of the rest of the troops? A. Not at that time. Q. Had you at any time before you left there? A. No; not subsequently. The purpose I had in mind in moving that division was to get it more conveniently located to the water supply. Q. Don't you think, General, that troops who are camped on the same ground more than a month ought to be moved? A. Yes, sir: I do. Q. Did you take up the consideration of sending these troops on marches or anything of that sort? A. We had some little marching, and the experience was such that it was aban- doned. The complaints of depredations and other little matters connected with these movements — small bodies— were such that I did not intend to incur any more criticism of that kind than could be avoided, and at the time we were ready to do that sort of work the expectation was that they would be moved very soon. In fact, after the 1st of July I would not have been surprised to get orders to move out. They did come about the 11th or 13th, when I got here to Washington. Q. General, do you consider, with your experience in the civil war, and in this war, and in the organization of large bodies of troops— as you had green troops at Chattanooga— do you consider that the sickness and the difficulties that were encountered there were greater than would be encountered under similar circum- stances at any time or any other place? A. No. I think there was less sickness there, probably, than there wa.s during the war of the rebellion. I can give yuu an instance of that. In 'dl, in Novem- ber. I brought a regiment to this city and camped at Kendall Green, and in ten days or two weeks I had 430 men down with the measles. We gut through with that and went across the river and camped near Alexandria, between it and Cloud's Mill, not far from Alexandria Seminary: went through that winter, and on the 10th oi March v.e went on a campaign, in 180:3. up to the battle of Fredericksburg. I suppose we lost 200 men in battle— killed and wounded— at tlie battle of Fred- ericksburg. We went in there with IG officers and about 300 men altogether, out of ;J8 officers and 1,000 men. There had disappeared .lOO men and 22 officers during the campaign. Wp thought nothing of it. It was a matter of course to us then. There were 500 officers and men went out of that regiment by sickness. By Colonel Denby: Q, You mean all those men died. General? A. Oh, no. By General Beaver: Q. Disappeared temporarily? A. Temporarily. 3102 INVEWTIGxVTION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By Captain Howell: Q. What is your opinion of that camping ground at Camp Thomas? A. I think it was a very good camping ground. The principal objection I saw was the limestone water, which caused diarrhea. I know it did to me. I suffered with it as much as anybody else. I had made my report as to the number of men I thought could been camped there. It was 50,000, but we had more. By General Dodge: Q. In relation to the sickness in Porto Rico, you say at one time you had 17.000 men. What proportion of your troops were sick there? Taking all the sickness, what proportion were sick from the climatic or any other source in Porto Rico? A. There were 3,500 at one time. Q. I mean take the total sickness while you were there? A. I don't think I ever ascertained the percentage all through; these 2,500 rep- resented the full sickness of about 17,000 men at one date. By Governor Woodbuky: Q. Wouldn't there be one-half or three-(juarters sick during the whole time you have been there? A. I think probabl}^ there might. I would not know. I tliink it is likely that fully one-half were sick at one time or another; possibly more. By General Dodgi:: Q. Is it your opinion that with all our troops going to Porto Rico and Cuba dur- ing the summer season a greater i)ortion would be sick? A. Large numbers, i)articularly clothed as our men are, in clothing suitable for a Northern climate. The clothing is entirely too heavy. Q. Are they changing that? A. They are considering it. Q. Is it too heavy for this season of the j^ear? A. Too heavy for any season there. The thermometer when I left San Juan lin- gered around 75 to 82 and 80. I left there with linen clothing, and wore it for two days. Q. How were your troops clothed there? A. The same as here, except with these light canvas trousers and the blue shirt. Q. You spoke here of pursuing the methods in Porto Rico which the British do in India. What were those methods? A. Not quite that— in tlie West Indies. What I alluded to was particularly the housing of the men; avoiding the canvas, avoiding any outdoor work during cer- tain hours of the day; in fact, until the men become acclimated they should do no work whatever. It is the system I pursued in Porto Rico. I forbade any work being done by the men other than military duties during certain hours of the day to expose them to the effects of the sun, which, in my opinion, is a sure way of caus- ing sickness. Q. You also spoke about receiving tents in their original packages. Were they rotten? Was that on account of the climate? A. No; on account of the canvas made up. They were old tents made up fresh. I think it Avas the latter. It was supplied in Baltimore. The matter was all brought out on investigation, and the thing was reported to the War Department. Q. It was a matter that was properly investigated? A. Oh, yes. Q. Have you any statement to make or suggestion or any information to give us that will be of interest to the commission or of benefit to t!ie service? A. In what line? Q. Suggestions as to the future service, or as to what your experience has shown would be of benefit to it. MAJ. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 8103 A. I have very decided ideas as to mobilization of troops, gleaned from the experience that I have had during this past summer. I think that at any future time, should it be necessary to mobilize trooi^s previous to being assembled in large bodies, they should be thoroughly equipped in their native sections. It was the experience of 18G1, and it was not a mistake. It is just as easy to assemble all the material for eciuipment at Harrisburg, Columbus, Indianapolis, Spring- field, or any other point that may be selected for the assembling of the volunteer troops, to equip them there, and when equipped they will be found to be drilled to a certain degree. Then they are available in a way for service. As it is, assem- bling them in large bodies, it is a tremendous draft on the resources of the Gov- ernment at one spot, which is difficult indeed to meet, on account of the numbers assembled. I never worked so hard in iny life— my staff never worked so hard in their lives — during all the months they were there. By Captain Howell: Q. Men would come to your camp without auythingV A. Without anything but such as you would find men putting on merely to reach a place where they were sure to get a uniform. They had poor clothes. All these conditions were disheartening to the men themselves. Necessarily there was a great deal of time lost in seeing to them, in equipping them, and clothing them and furnishing them necessities for equipping troops at other points in large bodie.s. I am decidedly of the opinion that they had better be equipped, each State's quota, in one or two places, as may be most convenient to assemble them. You can do that more satisfactorily at your leisure. You are wasting no time at all. The drills can go on. It does not matter about the arms so much. By General Bkavkr: C^. There would be less pressure upon transportation, too? A. Very much. With a little one-horse railroad, which ran from Chattanooga to Battlefield Station, it was a terrible thing to get troops there. We unloaded troops in the city and marched them out. We unloaded them at Rossville and marched them out. When they got to bringing supplies out it was an utter impossibility to bring out regiments without causing some congestion. The whole thing stopped until we got trackage in there, and we were in a terrible condition. In shipping troops out we shipped by Ringgold and Rossville, and Battlefield also, when we had small batteries in there. Every advantage was taken of every oppor- tunity which presented itself to work the thing properly. By General Dodge: Q. Don't you think it is more difBcult to discipline troops in their own States than after you mo\ e them out? A. It is not the discipline so much. That comes afterwards. You don't find that the improvement is very large when you assemble 50,000 men in one camp and you have .5.000 or 0,000 in the State camps under proper control. The dis- cipline of the volunteer organization is not different at all in any way from the regular command. It takes time. The mind must be discipUned. When you get the men's minds disciplined that is discipline all over. There is no trouble about it then. That requires care and tact and patience. By General Wilson: Q. With vour own experience in Porto Rico, does that give you any idea for making an/ suggestions as to the ration in that portion of the country? A. I have already made suggestions to the War Department on that sub.iect. Q. Might we ask what that was. so we might have it on record here.-- A. I suggested that the ration of rice and hominy and sugar be increased and the meat ration might be decrease*!. The vegetable ration is all right so tar as it goes. I have rather come to the conclusion that the tomato part of the ration is 3104 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. not good. Unless you can cook it properly it causes some trouble in the intestines, liable to produce diarrhea and dysentery when used raw. Many men can not eat it without producing difficulties of that kind. I suppose, Dr. Conner, you have watched that somewhat? Dr. Conner. Yes, sir: you are right. The Witness. All these things have received my attention to the end that I might be able to do some good in that way should occasion ever arise. Q. Have you made any suggestion as to the addition of dried fruit? A. We ought to have dried apples; we ought to have these evaporated apples, peaches, and apricots, and things of that kind. They are of great advantage, I think. That, of course, the Medical Department ought to have more knowledge of than I. By General Dodge: Q. Would you add that to the ration or in lieu of so much meat? A. In lieu of meat. We have too much ration now. The trouble is that our people eat too much meat anyhow. It is all very well, but as a soldier and as having an end to reach, I think you will reach it better with less food. There is no danger of starvation, but even with this ration furnished in full I have had the most extraordinary complaints sent to me from the mothers, and sisters, and sweethearts, and wives, and uncles, and aunts, and everything of that kind, and members of Congress, from whom the most ridiculous things in the world have come. A board of officers was composed by General Henry at Ponce. Porto Rico, to investigate these things. They had one man before them— one instance I recall — in which he complained of being starved— we have his own letter for it— that he had not had anything to eat .since he had been on the island. We asked how much he weighed when he came into the service, and he told us, and we put him on the scales and he had gained 5 pounds. Q. Ym\ found these complaints that came to you, upon examination — what did you find generally as a result of the examination? A. That the man was lying— somebody was lying. By General Beaver: Q. General, there is widespread feeling in certain parts of the country that is being disseminated all through the country that the presence of onr troops in southern latitudes will tend to greatly increase the dissoluteness of habits; did you find that in Porto Rico? A. It is bad for the men. It does not affect the inhabitants. Q. The Commissary- General is of the opinion that it would be desirable to place in the hands of the Commissary-General not only the duty of providing the food itself, but the facilities with which it is to be cooked and the personal implements with which the man eats his food; that it would be desirable to have all that aggregated in one department, the Commissary Department, so that the food and its transportation and the cooking utensils and the eating utensils for the men should be all furnished by one department, thus simplifying the service to that extent, instead of being in the hands of green troops. What is your opinion? A. In so far as the cooking utensils are concerned, it is all right; but the trans- portation is another thing. Railroad life has demonstrated you can not run two trains on the same track in opposite directions without some trouble. There is the problem. That has been up. The Quartermasters Department has had charge of the transportation from time immemorial: it is a fixture there. There is no reason in the world why it should not furnish transportation, which is the principal part of its duty, in war time particularly; such transportation as is required; but still I am ready for any experiment they might want to try in peace times. I don't want any experiments in war times. MA J. GEN. JOHN R. BROOKE. 8105 Q. Who should command the troop transports? Sliould the troops 1 le under the command of a naval officer? A. No, sir; the Army should be a distinctive branch by itself. Q. Don't you think when you put troops al)oard a ship to be transported that it would be better for that transport to be under the command of a naval oihcer? A. No, sir. Q. Should be under the Army? A. Under the Army. Q. Suppose the commander of that ship— you have a quartermaster aboard; he knows nothing about navigation? A. The captain of the ship is responsible for the navigation entirely. Q. Suppose he docs not navigate it properly, where is the responsibility? A. That is the very thing coming up now. We are reducing the pay of our shipmasters to a certain extent. The good men arc not going to stay, and the cheap men we can not afford to hire. Q. Under the British service, the troops are always carried l)y transport ships that are under the command of the crews. The personal equipment of the ship is from the British navy. A. If you put the whoL> command of the ship in the Navy, of course the com- mander should be a naval officer. By Captain Howell: C^. Suppose you have a convoy and danger comes on? You have a general in command of the Army and Navy? A. The Navy has us on the hip. We are utterly helpless, and the convoy must take care of us. Q. Then that would be under the naval officer? A. Yes, sir. By Colonel Denby: Q Wouldn't that (luestion depend on the conditions: that is to say, if you are going to Cuba, you can get along without having a consultation between the quartermaster and commissary? A. Yes, sir. . ^ , , xu Q. If we have a war, and we have to send 100.000 men to a given point, then the question comes up; in time of peace it does not come up? A. No, sir; not necessarily. By General Dodge: Q. I am speaking of troops, not supplies. A. You can not very well spare them. By Colonel Denby: Q. The management of the ship would be in the hands of the captain of the ship? A. Entirely. Q. Under certain regulations? A. Certainly. ^ Q. In time of peace there is no (luestion about the matter. A. No, sir. Q. In war there would be? , , A. In war there might be a possible conflict between the Army and Nav> . That is a matter to which I have not given sufficient thought to ^^^^'^ive. I was on the Navy ship with the Third Illinois Regiment on the way to ^^^'^^ ^^«;^- ^J^ went very fast and averaged over 19 knots an hour al the way '^.7"- ^j^^^J! ,^...r ' .Lnvfh..,„lP,l down there and responsibility for it had been under one hat? A. Yes, sir; that is the trouble with the staff— divided responsibility right along. By Colonel Denby: Q. How was that divided? Was not it the duty of the Quartermaster's Deiiart- ment to furnish them? A. It was changed in 1894 The Commissary Department had it until Ihen, and after that the quartermaster. By General Beaver: Q. To what extent has the bake oven been used in the Army since 1894? A. Well, they have them right along now. The Quartermaster's Department furnished them subsequently. Q. But prior to the war with Spain, did they liave them manufactured and on hand? A. No, sir; they did not. Q. They did not use them at posts? A. They erected a brick oven there— a permanent affair. Q. Did you superintend the collection of supplies for the expedition to Santi- ago—the commissary supplies? A. I was in the office here on duty in the War Department when the order came from General Corbin for the concentration of 70,000 men for ninety days at Tampa, and General Nash was Commissary-General at the time, but I was really doing tiie work, and General Eagan came in and under him— I don't claim I did it, but I did it to his satisfaction, and I ordered the stuff that went in there, and it was there. Q. What number of rations or for what time was the Army whic-.h left Tampa for Santiago provisioned? A. Twenty thousand men for ninety days; we had 1,800,000 rations, taking the minimum as the standard; we had a less number of some; we had 1,800,000 full rations. . ^ .,. ^i , 4. q. To what extent was that provision for the food carried with the troops to Santiago? A. We took all of that \\'ith us on board the ships. Q. Nearly 2,000,000 rations? A Yes sir; and I was careful to have half hard bread and half flour and all the coffee, except what was loaded before I went there. Half the c.^ff'ee was ground. The troops loaded at Mobile had all green coffee and only one-fifth hard bread. Q. In your loading, you made half the coffee roasted and ground.^' A. Yes, sir; that is what the schedule showed in the command. Q Were you present when the troops landed at Daiquiri? A The night before I was sent to where the Vizcaya was sunk, 2r> or 2U im es west, to shove through 15,000 rations for Generals Garcia and Rabi but the order I got to do that told me to hurry back, as troops were going to land the next cay; but the general, when he gave me that order, did not know ^^^ ^^^"^^^^T^ to land that in the open. It was in the open, and there was a suit on, and whu we put two lighters alongside one another, and the two ^^'^^^ ^^"^^^^^ each other, and when the two ports-thetwo opposite poi^s-ot t^ <^^ * ,> ^^^^'^^ ^^^ come together is the only time you ^^^^ ^^^^^"^ '''^:'^'Z^o^^ from one to the other, and the Cubans I had a te-r a little while ' ^1-;^ ^^ * ^^ them ashore, but I did not get to Daiquiri until perhaps 1 o clock. tlune mainly eliminated from the matter; they had provided everything. Q. Were the stores you had for sale such as were suitable for the wounded? A. Such as you would get at Park & Tilford's. Oh, yes; the best in the world — the very best, sir. Q. In furnishing these stores to the surgeons of whom you have spoken were they compelled to purchase them? A. No, sir. 3110 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. Q. How were they issued? A. Given on niemorandum receipt and wcu-e to he paid for oiit of a fund here in Washington. Q. So yon eliminated not only the regulations of tiie commissary, hut also red tape? A. Yes, sir; there was not a ration memorandum asked from the volunteers, and not a man of them had to make out a paper except the officer with me. Q. General, you mentioned several surgeons, Dr. Appel and others, who applied to you for these stores; did any surgeon ever apply to you for stores for the sick and wounded who was not supplied with them? A. Not where we had them. Those stores we got off at Siboney went like wildfire, and in five days we did not have any for them there; but the wounded and men in the hospital and men going north— there was plenty provided for - them. Q. To what extent did the surgeons coming north apply for these stores? A. They did not come near me for anything; they made their own arrange- ments aboard the ships; they may have applied to the subsistence department. I was landing the stores. Shaffer put me in charge of getting the stores ashore; that kept me out nineteen hours out of every twenty-four, maybe. I saw where Colonel Roosevelt one time came to Siboney w^th a little pack train for some beans; he wanted to Imy some beans. He testified that somebody told him that the beans were for sale, and that he would have to give a certificate that they were for himself. I had two volunteer captains with me, and there is such a thing as knowing a great deal about what is not so, but no surgeon would ever say that to you. Q. Well, no officer would be likely to think that w{is so. Doctor? A. Not if he was at all familiar with his work. When I met Colonel Roose- velt at Santiago afterwards and he told me that he had money, and I said ■ That makes no difference." I said, '• What do you want? " He said, '• Tomatoes " and other things. I said, '■ You don't need any money for them; these things are back rations that you have not drawn; they were the soldiers" rations; part of the soldiers" rations which had not been drawn in full. Q. When did you remove your commissary headquarters to Santiago? A. On the lUth. On the 17th I went in at the surrtaider and looked at the ware- houses, and I was disappointed in the harbor. I thought I could run a ship along- side the wharves, Imt she could not if she drew over 14 feet, and we could not get to the wharves; but still we brought in lighters again, a,nd as the tide was only 3 inches that was no serious drawback; but on the 20th, I wish to say, I had the bakeries going and furnished soft bread; that is right. Q. After that there was no trouble, I suppose? A. The Iroquois came in with 500 tons of potatoes and onions and fresh beef, and there were fresh potatoes, vegetables, and fresh bread for them. Q. What was the condition of those vegetables that came in not canned? A. They were spoiled, and we threw them overljoard; but this particular ship just came in and many of the potatoes were bad, and I am in doubt now, looking back, whether it was a good trick. I anticipated great results from fresh provi- sions, for in the Geronimo campaign I saw the men pick up afterward on fresh beef after living on bacon for a long time; but we did jiot get those results. Q. What did you get. General? A. A good deal of sickness. Q. You spoke of stores that should lie for sale, lieing accounted for in Wash- ington A. To the hospitals? Q. Yes; had you heard of the fiO-cent arrangement at that time? BRIG. GEN. JOHN F. WESTON. 3111 A. That took place on the 16th of August. Q. So that the thought in your mind was that that would be paid for out of the ho.spital fund? A. Yes, sir; and I knew they had no money, and it was only talk, and I had no place to keep money anyhow. Q. That is one place the " filthy lucre " did not count? A. Yes. sir; I took §5,000 away from Florida, and have the whole lot of it yet. Q. Well, you did not reqxiire, then, any money from anybody? A. No, sir. Q. If the officers did not have money they could get stores; if the .surgeons did not have it they could account for it later? A. Yes, sir. Wo didn't sell to enlisted men on credit, as the accounts would have been mixed up, but to any officers that would ask for it. Q. Were there applications on the part of enlisted men? A. At SiV)oney a plug of tobacco Avas bought for 42 cents, and they would turn around and sell it across the road for §4, and cutting it in halves and selling it in that way. so that I had the sale of that stuff stopped at Siboney. Gallagher was taken from mo on the 21st and taken to the front. -He was the farthest commis- sary to the front, and I wanted the stuff to give to him, so that the men in fr(^nt could get it; but not at all times were tlie stores for sale. The first lot did not last very long, nor did the second lot, but about the 12th I had so many that I later had to haul four carloads away from Santiago. Q. General, looking back at your experience, state whether, under all the cir- cumstances, you su(;ceeded very well in the administration of the commissary department at Santiago? A. Yes, sir; with reference to the hardships of the men I had considerable experience with the Seventh Cavalry with Custer, and I would say that in the late war there were no hardships there. In the spring of 1869 and 1S70 a couple of white women were stolen from one of the camps, and Governor Crawford raised a considerable discussion, and troops were sent after the Indians. Wi; fol- lowed them. We had been out about twelve months; the men were wearing nose bags on their feet; they had few overcoats, and I found once a whole mattress of Custer's, and I, wishing no one would sleep on it, left it on the prairie. Of the 66 6-mule teams that we took from Leavenworth I don't think we brought in any one of them. I didn't eat any of them, but I saw the men eating them, but I ate dried grass. The men were so desperate I have seen them in their eagerness not wait for the animals to be killed. I saw them run out and cut chunks of meat out of tliem. To me the campaign was a mere bagatelle as far as liardships were concerned. Q. So fai" as the food was concerned? A. Yes, sir. Q. General, with your experience, what suggestion would you have to make in regard to the improvement of the service in the Commissary Department? Would the restoration of the order to furnish the ovens by the Commissary Department be an improvement? A. Oh, yes, sir. Also, I found out it was the duty of the Quartermaster's Department to furnish sheds, houses, and tarpaulins. The commissary was there at Tampa, and I found that we had no tarpaulins, and I wired to Jacobs at New York, but they did not come. Then I wrote a letter showing the conse- quences—that in a tropical country one night's rain wouhl destroy 20',).()()() rations of bread. 1 saw a rain there, gentlemen, and I simply tlirew my gum coat off; it would not stop the rain from coming through. I wired again. We should have our own covering in those cases. Q. That is, you should have authority to provide it? 3112 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. A. Yes, sir. Again, at Montauk Point the Seventy-first Regiment of New York had lots to eat, but they had no mess equipment, no knives, forks, pans, and spoons. It was not my duty or busine'=s,l)nt T was also doing othar people's business, and 1 wired Woodruff, in New York, to wire to the closest place to get them. It seems that they had to come from the Ordnance Department. He wired to Eagan and he saw Flagler and he wired to a point in Illinois, and they sent the mess gear dovv'n — tin knives, forks, etc. Tliey were sent from there to New York. Had it been otherwise I conld have wired to a hardware store and got them on the next train. Q. Then, your opinion would coincide with the Commissary Grenei'al's to the extent that the Commissary Department suoiild have the authority of purchasing food, means for cooking it, and handing it to the soldier? A. Yes, sir. It could n;)t b" more ridiculous if one fellow provided drawers and the other fellow breeches. Q. What do you say as to controlling the transportation. General? A. It is rather a deej) subject, and the commissaries that want to run into it might carom on something very hard. It is no easy job. I have had a good deal of experience with army transportation. If they go that far we had better bunch them all together. Q. And make a supply d 'partment of it? A. Yes, sir. The transportation is a matter that I would not like to talk about without thinking of it, and I have done lots of thinking aboiit it. By General Wilson: Q. General, can you tell us, in view of your experience, what sxiggestions you have to make, if any. in regard, to the character and style of ration, and the qxiantity to be issued to the troops serving in Cuba and Porto Rico? A. I notice this, that the natives, no matter where you go, whether with the Indians or New Mexicans, that it behooves you to pay a little attention to what they do; that you have lots to learn from them. Apjilying that to Cuba, you might say it is poverty, or what you will, but they were not consuming meat all the time. The natives were not eating it, and particularly were they not eating beef. Some men might come after me and say they can not afford it. I don't know but that is the case, but they eat less meat and more fish, and they eat a good deal of corn meal and things generally of that kind. I think our ration is a splendid ration for hardy men in a rigorous climate, but whether it is suitable for that hot climate there I have my doubts; that should be looked into very carefully. When the troops returned I asked that oatmeal and milk be made a part of the ration, and for the time being bacon be thrown out and the men be given ham. It "was "not gi'anted. They put up evaporated cream, which goes a long way. I think beans are not fit for that country at all; they are too heating. Q. Did it ever occur to you that the difference in the diet might account for the difference in the men? A. I think it is racial. 1 think we are a more vigorous, strongei' race of men and need more food; but still I think we gorge on it. By General Dodge: Q. Who were the officers at Siboney on shore in charge of your work? A. Up to the 1st of July there was no regular set of officers at Siboney, Init Gallagher was with me on shore up to that time. Q. Who took his place? A. Major Wilson. I left him at Daiqiiiri when we first landed and then pulled him away, seeing the reduced importance of Daiquiri to Siboney, and Gallagher was taken by Shafter to the front. Two volunteer officers were dropped in and Kent dropped them onto me, and another man w^as dropped onto me. BRIG. GEN. ,TOHN F WESTON. 3113 By General Beaver: Q. Do you mean "dropped" to be understood in the sense of unloading them on you? A. Yes; that is right. Kent would dodge nie for a long time afterwards when we met. By General Dodge: Q. These men were industrious, hut they were not efficient on account of inex- perience; or was it that they did not try to do their duties? A. One had been through the last war, and aimed to do all he could. It was simply he did not know how to do it as we wanted it done. I want no officers around me but sergeants— some fellow like Gallagher, who understood how to do the work, and different sergeants who would not question my orders, but do the work. We have the best noncommissioned officers, and I wish they could be pro- moted in time of war. It is twice as easy to make a first lieutenant and cai^tain of infantry as to make a captain of commissary out of a great many of them. These men knaw how to take care of the siipplying of troops. It is a rather difficult job in time of war, but the sergeants are the men. By General Beaver: Q. Do you believe it is possible to provide a reserve corj)s of commissary officers, sergeant-majm-s, etc., who could be assigned in time of war so as to bring them into contact with the company cooks? A. Yes, sir. When Wood was raising his regiment — I knew him before that; we served together at Whipple Barracks — and he came to me when he was authorized to raise a regiment, and I told him, " The first thing you need is a commissary-sergeant." I whipped one in from Laredo and ordered him to rei^ort to Colonel Roosevelt, and that is what brought that regiment into Florida in such shape, and they came in there almost the equal of any body, and it was entirely due to their having a fellow who knew how to get what they were entitled to. I had to pull the sergeant away from there. And, furthermore, that regiment, when it left Daiciuiri, had three days' rations, and CoLmel Wood and Colonel Roosevelt came for five days' more rations, and I told them it was against orders, and they said, "We will be short of rations and away from yoiT, and you had better give us three days' more; " so I did. Q. In providing for the Army in time of peace I notice tliey provide for certain skeleton companies; would it not be jjossible to include in those companies com- missary-sergeants to be trained, and they could be made the commissary-sergeants in time of war? In this new bill spoken of they talk about having skeleton com- panies in time of peace; would it not be pi:)ssible to have with these noncommis- sioned officers trained in the duties I have spoken of to be assigned to them in time of war? W( )uld it be possible to train them in skeleton ccnnpanies? Suppose you had a school iov your hospital stewards, sergeant-majors, and commissary- sergeants, and give them such duties as they could perform and instruct them in the duties of those three positions and then in war assign them to the volunteer troops? A. The only training for a commissary-sergeant is the storing and issuing of rations; that training in addition to what is necessary for the Regular Army; in time of peace I would make the sergeants and assign them to duty at posts. By General Dodge: Q. This bill provides for 160 commissary-sergeants, who shall l)c hereafter known as post commissary-sergeants? A. We have nut 160 posts, and that will l)e the hitch hereafter. 3114 INVESTIGATION OF CONDUCT OF WAR WITH SPAIN. By Captain Howell: Q. Would it be better if the United States, in framing new legislation, reserved the right to appoint quartermasters from the Regular Army — that is, to aj^poiiit the quartermasters for the volunteer troops from the Regiilar Army from those commissary-sergeants and quartermaster-sergeants: I mean those from the RegxTlar Army? A. That might mean you could take a second lieutenant for that. These com- missary-sergeants would be better. Commission them as quartermasters. General Beaver. Governors of States would not want their prerogatives taken from them in the matter of appointments to the office of quartermasters. Captain Howell. When the United States calls these men into service it should have the right, as it is their property to be handled, and we know from this investigation that a vast deal of trouble has occurred because of those things. Now, I say if the United States Government woiild reserve the right to appoint quartermasters when they need the vohmteers in the national service, the quarter- masters and commissaries of regiments, we would obviate a great deal of trouble. General Dodge. They might assign, but they could not appoint. The Witness. There was some testimony given before this board that I can throw a little light on. Captain McKay was before yoiT and testified he was there all the time, and that the doctors did not apply to him for transportation or how to get things ashore. Captain McKay was all right as far as he went. Dr. Pope comes before the commission and says he would never see Captain McKay. Here is the Avay that came about. McKay was the qiiartermaster's man; he was the captain of the ship and understood his business. He loaded his ship and came over to Daiqiiiri. and there he stayed. The hospital was at Siboney and the doctors wei-e there or at the front, and from there they came to Siboney, and therefore they did not see McKay; they did not see each other, and McKay did not land at Siboney or anywhere until this pier was put in. He neither helped to make the pier nor any work there; but when it was finished he did the work, and as his packages were too big, his stores had to be landed by taking them on tlie heads of the men, as there was no other way below Siboney; so he coiild do very little until the pier was made. The doctors — there has been an awful lot said about them, and I never saw men work better than Major Torney, Major Appel, Captain Winter, and others. Appel got hold of a little steam laiinch — I could not get one — and he would attach boats to it and run out to the ship, and he worked day and night. I never saw a man working harder than that. There was only one lighter and I had that. Those men did everything they could. By General Dodge: Q. McKay testified that he was at Daiqiiiri most of the time, and only went to Siboney later? A. After the pier was put in; yes, sir. By Dr. Conner: Q. Were these supplies in great mass at Daiquiri or at Siboney — these supplies on the transports? A. Many of the transports, the bulk t)f them, were at Siboney, and no pack trains went back to Daiquiri; wagons went once in a while, but no pack trains. By General McCooK: Q. Did yoii make any contracts during the war for supplies? A. No, sir; that is what I did not. I started out; they wanted to keep me here, but that is not my temperament. I had to go off, and that freed me from all the contract lousiness and all that kind of work. I left before the army did — I left on the 29th of July to come back. I was going to Porto Rico, and I was not sick there, but after I got back I was sick five days and I was to go into the hospital, but I did not go. BRIG. GEN. JOHN F. WESTON. 3115 By General Dodge: Q. Were you at Porto RicoV A. No, sir; they signed the treaty about that time and I did not go. General Dodoe: Any other questions? (No response being made, the testimony of the witness was concluded.) i(;> ^ % -^y^^^/ ^"^ ^^ .yj|\^. .sl^ ^^ .^ -^q. \ ^-- =. V O ' .0 .0^ ,0 ^J v '^^c,-^ -^^ /^v st% Q O ^ '..^ v>>. ?^* «5^'"^ ^^'^6^^^^' -x^''^ .V > • ■^^^^^■'v' V CiTiS^^* > "^■^ ^^ ''5=^' fei-: V or/toxW ^ '>^.- ^r^-- '^^.^ -ym^/ j< '^"^' /l?^- -^^ O . . " A. ^ "'^... J^ ^'*^^v;'. ^'^^. .^^' :^.r^^:^ '^ .. J"' ■:^^rC.^ %. ^■^^ G' C" * 4 o^ i/^ f^- ■^-..^^ :'M£ o V •* :- . '*-o< ^•^- ■•:^i«:- y ^. '^r^ .o^-s. -^^P;.- .^^'^e o x^ "''^, " S^'^PlHfoilii 1 Pi ! iliil^ LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 013 902 228 2^