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FINANCES OF THE DOMINION OF CANAt.

BTJDG-ET SP

DEI.lVKREli 15Y

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'^ON A. W! McLelan,

MINISTER OF FINANCE.

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HOUSE OF COMMONS

30th march, 1886.

OTTAWA :

PRINTED BY MACLEAN, ROGRR & Co , WELLINGTON STREET.

1886.

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FINANCES OF THE DOMINION OF CANADA.

BUDGET SPEECH

DKLITERBD BT

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; fioN, A. W. McLelan,

MINISTER OF FINANCE,

THE HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA,
Tuesday, 30th Maboh, 1886.

Mr. MoLELAN. Mr. Speaker: In moving that the Hoaso
resolve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means, I desire,
as has been castomary, to make some statements respecting
the position of our accounts. This duty has for a nnmber
of years been discharged by one who has made fiscal mat*
ters a life study, and whose clear and able statements com-
manded the admiration of the House and the confidence of
the country. I am sure that all in this House will join
with me in expressing deep regret that the condition of Sir
Leonard TlUey's health has compelled his withdrawal, at
least for a timO; from the more active duties of public life,
And I am sure also that I but give expression to the feelings
of those around mo when I utter the wish that he may be
restored to health and may have many happy years of usefal
4ind honorable life. In attempting this task, without having
liad perhaps sufiELoient time to become familiar with ail th*
details of my Department, I should crave the indalgano* ojP

the Honse, more espeoiallj when I look back io 1867, and
see that this position has been from that time to
the present always occupied by distinguished and able
men. Sir, in looking back to that period over the admin-
istration of those eminent men— an unbroken line of
gallant knights — I am deeply impressed with the changes
that have taken place in the country since that period,,
with the contrast which the Dominion of Canada
presents to-day to the Dominion of 186*7. Eighteen
years in the history of any country mark it with
changes of progress and development, or, perchance, of
decay, but I venture to say that in no country in the world
are the evidences more strong and marked of progressive
development than in the Dominion of Canada. In 1867,
we were four Provinces, and we spoke of the country
as a great country, one of magnificent distances. Wo
bad then Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brnns*
wick, covering an area of 338,000 square miles, with a
population of 3,331,000. On the east we have added that
most fertile of all fertile islands. Prince Edward, and we
have taken our boundaries westward and laid them beside
the waters of the Pacific Oce^n. In area, we now embrace
3,438,000 square miles. In territory we have increased
more than tenfold, and our population more than 50 per
cent. But it is not in increased area. It is not in added
numbers that the change is most marked. It is in the con-
dition of the great body of the people. They have learned
more of each other in those eighteen years, and have
strengthened their political, their social, their commercial
and industrial ties. In 1867, the two Provinces in the east
were separated from the two in the west by an impassable bar-
rier. In winter, and for six months in the year, we were
dependent upon the United States for all intercourse and
oommnnication between the two upper and the two lower
Provinces. In the west, on the admission of British Columbia

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and the Territories, the ohstaoles to interooarse were greater
even than the increased distances, and for all oom.nTinioation
and intercourse we were depenaent upon foreign rail-
ways, foreign hotels, and foreign conveyances. For fifteen
or sixteen years we have been paying tribute to a foreign
but a friendly power for all intercourse westward. To-day
the iron rail, leaving the waters of the Atlantic, goes west-
ward and westward until it touches the waters of the
Pacific Ocean, and gives us an unbroken highway from the
extreme east to the extreme west ; so that we shall from this
time be able to pass to and fro thereon without being remind-
ed, as hitherto, by a foreign flag and a foreign Custom house
that we were dependent upon a foreign people for our inter-
course. The year 1886 will be in all future Canadian his-
tory a red-letter year, as being the year in which we
obtained our national, our geographical independence ; the
year in which a highway to pass for pleasure or profit, in
peace or in trouble, was opened to us throughout our whole
territory. Something more than thirty years ago, the
public men of Nova Ssotia were busy discussing the pro-
priety of commencing the construction of what is now a
portion of the Intercolonial Bail way, and a link in this
great highway, and the men who were then discussing it,
the men who were most earnest in the matter, said to ub
that the importance and value of this road would grow in
the public estimation of the people of Nova Scotia, and in
the estimation of the people of all the Provinces, that
it would be commenced and would go westward until
it would eventually reach the waters of the Pacific
Ocean ; and we were told that many of those who were
taking part in the discussion would live to hear the scream
of the locomotive in the Bocky Mountains. Sir, that pre-
diction has been realised, and, if all, or if even in part the
other predictions respecting the great value and importanoe
of this work, in binding together the several Provinces, in

atrengthening and maintaining British interests upon this
continent and developing the great resoarces of this coun-
try, and drawing to as a share of the trade of the millions
of people who swarm the islands and the countries lying
beyond our western terminus, are realised, then the men
who grappled with and carried out this mighty undertaking
will be regarded as benefactors of this country and wiU
receive the respect and gratitude of all true Ganadianr.
And, Mr. Speaker, I may add that our right hon. leader,
who has labored so diligently and so successfully in carry-
ing forward this work, who, while not unmindful of the
interests of the older Provinces, never lost sight of this
undertaking, although often assailed by the opposition of
gentlemen opposite, and sometimes met by the fears
And doubts of his friends, yet never lost sight of this work,
but labored faithfully, zealously and intelligently to com-
plete it, and bind together and make one people all who
dwell beneath the British flag on this continent, and
strengthen and maintain British institutions — if those pre-
dictions shall be in any part realised, he will have the
highest reward that can come to the greatest statesman, the
satisfaction of knowing, of believing, of seeing, that he has
wrought a great advantage for his country. Sir, I believe
that those predictions will be largely realised, and that a
great future lies before us. Bat I must not detain the House
to speak of that future. I was contrasting for a moment,
in passing, the past with the present, the condition of things
in 1867 with the condition in 1886. And, Sir, it is notalone,
in the increased area, nor in the improved means of inter-com-
munication which we now have, but the change is most
marked in the great improvement in the condition of the
vast body of the people. Measured by every standard that
tests the condition of a people, we see that they have
made greai progress, by the aocumalations in our savings
And our commercial banks, by the traffic npon our railways

<9r

and upon oar w iters, by the growth of oar towns and
cities, by the private and public bnildings s'hioh adorn
them, by the comfortable homes of oar raral population,
by churches and schools, and all the varied avocations
in which men are engaged, and which mark the growth,
the progress, the wealth and happiness of the people.
Sir, in speaking thas, and expressing gratifi')<!ition at the
growth of the Dominion, I do not forget my e.cperience in
the past with some minds narrow by nat are or by preja-
dice, who will say that it is, perhaps, not in good taste in a
ITova Scotian, not in good taste in me, particularly, to
express this gratification. Sir, I desire a woiL*d of
personal explanation, and I am moved the more thereto by
the fact that the leader of the Opposition, when nothing
else could be found to occupy his great mind at the open-
ing of this Session, directed my attention, when I should
occupy this place to-day, to the position I occupied in
1867. It is true that Nova Scotia was opposed to Con*
federation, but mainly owing to the financial terms then
proposed ; it is true that I joined in that opposition, but
when the act was passed I took the earliest opportunity
to define my position as a candidate for this House.
Addressing a large public meeting of my constituents,
1 said— ' and, if I remember rightly, my remarks were
reported by the gentleman who occupies the chief
place at the Table of this House — ^I said : The Act of
Confederation has become law, it is the Act of the British
Empire, and no power that we possess can void it. We shall
live under it, we shall test its working, and if I am elected as
your representative in the House of Commons, believing
that the terms on which we are admitted are unfair to
Nova Scotia and may be amended, I shall labor to
have them amended, and I shall join those who
will endeavor to promote the best interests of the
whole country at large. In substance, that was my

pledge to the people of my county ; and when 1 came here
my utterances were in that direction, to have a modifica-
tion of the terms on which Nova Scotia was admitted. And,
Sir, tc-day I stand with that pledge redeemed, with
having aided to secure better terms for my little Province
down by the sea, and in having joined with those who were
giving, and have given their bobt energies to the develop-
ment and progress of the whole country. And with that
pledge redeemed I feel as free to express proud
satisfaction at the progress of our common country, as
the most ardent Confederate of 1867. Now, Mr.
Speaker, having detained the House with this introduction,
I desire to invite attention to the Public Accounts which were
submitted to the House some days ago, and which, I
have no doubt, have been examined by hon. gentlemen
present. Permit me, Sir, to direct attention to several
points which seem to call for consideration. And first,
dealing with the receipts of 1885, it will bo noted that the
late Finance Minister, in his Budget speech, placed the
revenue likely to be received at $33,000,000, including in
that amount the sum of $500,000 estinaated receipts from
the sale of Dominion lands. The actual amount received
from the several sources came to $33,190,618, of which tho
amount from Dominion lands was $393,618, the excess over
the estimate being $190,619. Many of the items in the re-
ceipt? and in the estimates approach each other very closely.
For instance, the Post Office revenue was estimated to pro-
duce $1,900,000 ; it did produce $1,841,372. The revenue
from Public Works, including Railways and Canals, was esti-
mated at $3,000,000 ; it did produce $3,065,000. The inter-
est on investments was estimated to produce $1,900,000; it
produced $1,997,000. Miscellaneous revenues brought
in'altogether $605,838, against an estimated amountof $800,-
000. Dominion lands produced but $393,618. The inter-
ruption of the I'eceipls from that source was caused by the

troables in the North- West, on account of -vhich the receipts
from that source almost ceased, and reduced the amount
below the estimated receipts of $500,000. Then there are the
receipts from Customs and Excise. "When Sir Leonard Tilley
mado his Budget speech about this time last year, he esti-
mated the Customs to produce $19,000,000; they did pro-
duce 818,935,426, being $64,5*74 short of the estimate.
If hon. gentlemen have referred to the Trade and Naviga-
tion Returns they will have seen that the greater portions
of the goods entered for duty in the Dominion during the
past year wore fully up to the estimates. The main falling
oflf was in articles that are being manufactured in the coun-
try, manufactures of cotton and woollen goods, of iron ar 1
steel and the products thereof. The duties upon those arti-
cles was $2,167,229.34 in 1884, and the amount realised
in 1885, $1,600,510, As hon. gentlemen will see, there was
a large falling off in the receipts from those sources in con-
sequence of our manufactories being able to furnish a larger
portion of the goods required for the wants of l e people.
The receipts from Castoms will, no doubt, constitute the
items which will receive most attention from hon. gentle-
men opposite, and all who are opposed to the National
Policy, and who dosire to preach and put in practice the
doctrine of Free Trade so far as is possible in this country. I
may, therefore, be permitted to make a few observations on.
this subject before passing to other matters. The sum of
$18,985,426 from Customs last year was collected on a gross
importation for home consumption of $102,7 10,109, being
18*43 per cent, under the National Policy tariff. Comparison
has been made on many occasions between the taxation of the
Dominion and the taxation of the United States, and the
results of the tariff in the Dominion and the results
in the United States. It is, however, shown from the
returns of 1835 in the United States that the percentage
of taxation upon imports into that country was HI '45, or

over 13 per cent, more than the charge under our National'
Policy. It is not so much with the United States tariflF,
but with the tariff of 1878 that we shall be criticised. vThe-
tarifFof 1878 is entered in our books as showing a taxation
of 14'03 per cent, upon a total importation of $91,199,577,
and that shows a difference of over 4 per cent, in the
result of the working of the tariff as at present arranged
and the tariff which hon. gentlemen applied in 1878. Now,,
even 4 per cent, of a difference of taxation is, perhaps, a
considerable one ; but it would not warrant all " the
condemnation which hon. gentlemen have been pleased
to shower upon it, but it is not. The Castomfr
receipts for 1878 were $12,795,693, being, as I [have Baid,
14*03 upon an importation of $91,199,577. The larger you
have the importations for a given mm received the
smaller is the percentage, and you have to look
at the imports and compare those of 1878 with
those of 1885, to reach a fair comparison of the
amount of taxation imposed by the respective tariffso
In 1878, it will be remembered, breadstuffs were
imported free into the Dominion, and all that passed
through any part of the Dominion, by Grand Trunk Eail-
way or otherwise, to the seaboard, for shipment abroad,
was called an importation for home consumption. In
that year the amount of imports of breadstuffs was
$13,452,460— in other words, 14f per cent, of the whole
imports of that year was in breadstuffs, not in necessary
imports, not in compulsory importations for the consump-
tion of the people, but a large portion on the way
to the seaboard for shipment to other coantries;.
and yet, being free, they were called importations for
home consumption, although they only passed through the
country. This amount, added to the necessary importa<-
ti< OS we were compelled to make, increased the amount
given as importations ; and \7hen the duty in that year

.-^z*

is taken over the whole amount thus increased, it
shows to the advantage of the tariff of 18*78. Take
out that amount over thirteen millions on breadstaffs,
free, and yon have $77,'74'7,11'7 left as the necessary im-
portations of that year, upon which $12,795,693 was col-
lected, which brings the percentage up to 16'45 per cent.,
loss than 2 per cent, of the taxation of 1885. If you look
at the imports of 1885 and the collections thereon you will
find that the increase of taxation is not on the necessaries
of life, not on what is consumed by the poor man, and net
what will justify hon. gentlemen opposite in saying that the
National Policy tariff is grindiog down the poor man, and
driving him out of the country. It is not necessary, Mr.
Speaker, that I should detain the House with a very close
analysis of the importations of 1885 ; but I may take up
two or three special lines, and show that the increase of
revenue and increase of taxation do not result largely from
impositions on the laboring claasos. In 1885 we col-
lected on silks and velvets, $1,029,657. In 1878 we
only collected $539,981, an increase of $480,676 y
and that leaves as much silk and velvet for the poor man
in 1885 as was imported in 1873. On spirits and wines we
had an increase of $642,100 ; on jewellery, gold and silver-
ware, $156,728. Now, here are three classes of goods which
are considered as luxuries, on which we collected an excess
over the amount collected for 1878, of $1,279,504. Now, if
you take this from the gross revenue received from Cus-
toms, it leaves $17,655,924, which would make a fairer com-
parison with the receipts from the importations of 1878 ;
and when you do that, Sir, you bring the taxation down ta
less than three-quarters of 1 per cent, over the taxation
of 1878. And I am sure. Sir, that if the investigation were
pursued further, we should be able to show, having no dutie»
on tea and coffee, and many other things which are largely
consumed by the poor man, that the tariff under which^we

are operating and under which we have colleotel this re •
venae, bears mach more lightly upon the working classes and
upon the middle classes than did the tariff of 1878. Hon. gen-
tlemen have been wont to exclaim against the tariff under
which we are operating at present, because it is called
a protective tariff, fiat, if wo take the free trade tariff of
England, we find that it is more grinding and bears more
hardly upon the poor man and the laboring classes than it
does upon the rich. Of the $96,OCO,000 that are collected for
Customs duties in England, a celebrated statistician, Mulhall,
places the proportion paid by the laboring classes at $50,000,-
000; the rich, $6,000,000 ; and the middle classes, $34,000,-
000 ; or, in other words, there is paid by the laboring classes
more than 56 per ceat. of the whole collection of Customs
revenue in that free trade country of England. 'So. wo see
that a free trade tariff i? not necessarily light upon
the middle classes nor iho poor man. And, Sir, I
say that if I were to pursue the analysis of our impor-
tations, I would be able to show that our tariff is
especially framed to bear lightly in its taxation upon the
poorer classes ; and, moreover. Sir, we know that the result
of the working of that tariff has been to give the poor man
and the laboring man employment It has given him that
employment which keeps poverty almost out of the
country^ and that is the object that any tariff— that
any Government framing a tariff should have in view
—to give employment to the people at large, and
to bear lightly upon the aboring classes of the community.
And the result of this tariff has been. Sir, that we have been
giving employment to the laboring classes, and we are
able, from the condition of our manufactures, to feed
and clothe the workingman for work-day and holiday;
and to put in his hands the implements by which
he earns his living at lower prices than they were
imported into the country under the tariff of 18*78.

"»

^■

The receipts from Bzcise have been $6,449,101 as against an
estimate of $5,500,000. The large increase in the Excise is
to be accoanted for by the fact that distillers and others fore-
stalled the changes that were made in the revenue and
entered large quantities of their goods. The receipts from
Post-office, Eailways and Canals, interest on assets, and
miscellaneous sources, including Dominion lands, amounted
to $7,806,089, showing a marked and gratifying increase
since 18t9 amounting to 88-3 per cent., or $3,565,321. It
will be noticed that I have included in that amount the
receipts from Dominion lands. During the five years that
hon. gentlemen opposite held the Government, all the re-
ceipts from Dominion lands were taken and counted as
part of the revenue, and my hon . friend and predecessor,
Sir Leonard Tilley, followed the same course up
to 1881, placing them as part of the receipts from consoli-
dated revenue account. From 1881 to 18^6, Sir Leonard
seems to have placed them to capital account. I suppose
the reason will be foand in the fact that he had a large
surplus each year during that period, and it was immaterial
whether they should be placed to capital or to revenue
account. But, Sir, I think the House will agree with me
that as we have made large expenditures in the North- West
in opening up the country by railway, and incurred a large
debt for that purpose, as we have made large expenditures
in surveys in the North- West, for Mounted Police, and in
Indian treaties, incurring large liabilities, it is but right
that whatever revenue or return we should have from the
lands in the North-West, should be placed to revenue ac-
count to meet the interest that we are paying on the ex-
penditures, and the sinking fund that we are providing in
order to pay off that indebtedness. I think the House will
agree with me that we should do that instead of increasing
the taxation of the country. Should wo receive from
the lands in the North-West a larger sura in any one

lin

year than would meet the sinkiog fund which we have to pro-
vide towards the payment of our indebtedness there, and the
interest npon oar indebtedness for that expenditure, then
it might very well be placed to capital account, hut until
that point is reached, I think we are justified in placing it,
as hon. gentlemen opposite did, and as Sir Leonard 'Tilley
did till 1881, to revenue account, and I have therefore
proposed for the present and future to deal with it in that
manner, calling it and using it as so much revenue, instead
of increasing the taxation in order to meet our wants.
The amount received from Dominion lands, as I have
already stated, during the year 1885, was $393,618.
making the total receipts for the year on consolidated
revenue account, $33,190,619, against which there is the
year's expenditure. This is of two classes — the ordinary
expenditure, contemplated by Sir Leonard Tilley when he
made his estimates, and the exceptional expenditure, caused
by the unfortunate outbreak in the North-West. We may,
I think, consider them separately. Dealing first with
the expenditure in the North- West, caused by the outbreak,
I find that there was paid through the Department of Militia
and Defence the sum of $1,697,85 l,and,by the Comptroller of
Mounted Police, $93,950. There has also been an increase
in the Indian expenditure, resulting from the outbreak, of
$82,3*75. The two first items together amount to $1,791,-
831. This sum, deducted from the gross expenditure, as
given in the Public Accounts, of $36,037,060, leaves the
sum of $33,345,2 53, as against the receipts of $33,190,619,
showing, by taking out only the expenditure on the
Mounted Police and on Militia and Defence, a deficit of
$54,634 ; but if you take out the additional InH'-n ex-
penditure of $82,375, you have a small surplus or $47,741.
I may say here that the additional receipts from Excise
have reduced the amount of the deficiency for the year
1885, and have increased the deficit which we

anticipate for 1886. Takiug the receipts, and
crediting them all to the ye«ir 1885, it will be
seen that on the ordinary expenditure, ezolasive of the ex-
penditure caused by the trouble in the North- West, the
accounts about balance each other ; but as it will be seen
later, that we anticipate a deficit, exclusive of the expendi-
ture in the North- West, for the year 1886, 1 think it would be
but fair that the over-oxpendituro for 1886 should be divided
between the two years, 1885 and 1886, because a portion of
the Excise revenue due in 1886 was anticipated and paid in
1885. The expenditure, it will be seen by the accounts
submitted, differs in some respects from the estimates Sir
Leonard Tilley made. The charges of management were
increased $63,518; the sinkingfund, $365,416; the premium
on discount and exchange, $108,988; public works, $77,848;
and miscellaneous, $76,109. On other items there has been
a decrease — On civil government, $37,186 ; on legislation,
$33,845; on census, $24,941; on railways and canals,$48,073;
on mail subsidies, $125,194 ; and on Liquor License Act,
$57,770. The first item of over- expenditure I may refer to
is the charges of management, of which the chief part
arises from the commutation of the stamp duty on the Z^
per cent, loan of 1884. The difference in the sinking fund
is made up of two items — a half year's sinking fund invest-
ment in the Oonsolidated^Ganadian 5 per cent, loan, which
was not estimated for on account of its falling due on the
Ist of January, 1885, and a half year's sinking fund invest-
ment on the Dominion Loan of 1884, which was not
floated when the estimates were made up. I suppose Sir
Leonard Tilley intended to take up the 5 per cent, loan alto-
gether, and re-issue without a sinking fund. As the House
is aware, he converted that into a 4 per cent, loan,
leaving the sinking fund. The premium on discount
and exchange arises almost entirely from the discount
on the gold we brought to the country in connection

with the loan contracted in 1885. On ocean and
river service there is an increase of $49,2*76, cansed by
over-expenditure on the maintenance and repairs of steamers^
and the outfit of a new steamer. On Indians the increased
expenditure of $82,375 was cansed by the North-
West troubles. On public works there is an in-
crease of $7*7,845, which was expended on works
inolnded in supplementary votes. The under-
expenditures were as I have named. It may be, Mr.
Speaker, ai\d I have no doubt it is, to some hon. [members
on this side of the House, a disappointment that the Public
Accounts for the year have not, as in past years, shown
that large surplus which Sir Leonard Tilley was able, on a
number of successive occasions, to announce to the House.
It should be borne in mind that when the tariff was framed
hon. gentlemen opposite eaid to us : " Toulwill not get any
revenue ; you are expecting to manufacture in the country
under your protective tariff the goods you now import."
That was our expectation ; but we knew at the same
time that the increased activity given to trade would for
many years necessitate our importing more largely than our
manufactures would be able to supply, that our dependence
for revenue would eventually have to be placed on articles
of luxury, or on articles that were not grown or produced
in the country, and would not be manufactured for a num-
ber of years, and that these would have to be held in
reserve for revenue. Our manufactures, however, increased
more rapidly than we anticipated ; the employment of our
people in factories has been larger than expected at the
outset, and this is, perhaps, in some measure due to hon.
gentlemen opposite. They, on every occasion, put before
the country statements of the enormous receipts, dividends
and profits manufacturers were receiving, and thereby
induced, perhaps, a larger number to enter manafaoturing
than the circumstances of the country demanded for the

time ; and, therefore, Sir, from the more rapid* increase of
manufaotares than Sir Leonard Tilley oounted upon, the
re venae has not come np quite to his anticipations. I
admit, Sir, that under ordinary circumstances it is desirable
that the receipts and expenditure should be equalized,
but in adopting a new policy, there is much difficulty in
so regulating it and so estimating for the increase of home
production, that it is difficult to make that harmony
between receipts and expenditure which is always desirable;
In the condition of our country, when we were requiring
large expenditures on public works, there was no loss in
haying a pretty large surplus and devoting it to the com-
pletion of public works and the improvement of the country,
as was done during the time we had these surpluses.
They prevented the increase of our indebtedness by just so
much, and tended to improve the credit of the country
abroad, enabling us to receive money on better terms than
if we had not been in the receipt of them. The fact that we
have been increasing largely our manufactures is shown in
the decreased imports of -the articles in the manufacture of
which we are mainly engaged. The importation of cotton
and woollen goods, and of the manufactures of iron and steel,
in 1878, amounted to 822,307,000. When we started the
National Policy and by protection gave employment to
our own people in larger numbers, and when we were
not in a position to produce sufficient goods, the de-
mand called for, in 1882, $33,588,158. In 1884, T7hen our
manufactures had increased, the importations fell to
$26,250,955, and in 1885 they dropped to $22,369,720, or
reached the point at which they stood in 1878. There is,
perhaps, not a gentleman on either side of the House who
will contend that the people have not been able to purchase
more since then than they could In 1878; there la
jiiot one who will contend that more goods have
not been consumed in the country than in 1878.

The cause of the decline is wholly due to the
increased output of our manufactures. This is evident in
the importations of raw material. The importation of raw
ootton from 1874 to 1878, five years, aggregated 26,641,000
lbs. From 1881 to 1885 it ran up to 104,528,000 lbs., or
more than quadruple that of the first period. In the
«ame period the importation of wool increased by 15,439,124
lbs., and tho exports decreased 6,627,563 lbs., or a diflfer-
enoe, comparing the two periods, ot 22,066,783 lbs. fop
manufacturing. In 1885, the last year, the whole export of
wool wds only $196,178, showing that we are manufactur-
ing almost all the wool production of the country, and are
importing very much more of some particular grades
that are required. So with respect to every article,
the employment of raw material has largely increased.
Take the article of pig iron. Its importation has more than
doubled, in addition to the large quantity being manufac*
tured in the country. Having referred to some of those
minor items, I may be permitted to deal with some of the
larger items of the Accounts of 1885. Hon. gentlemen
have noticed that the largest item in the Accounts is
that for interest. The charge for interest and manage-
ment foots up $9,652,123, and deducting from this
the interest we have received upon our assets of
$1,997,034, there is a net charge for interest of
47,655,089. Now this is a pretty large amount, and it
requires us to go back and see what increase we have made
to this since 1867. In 1867, the charge for interest and
management was $4,787,080, and the receipts from assets
were $126,419, leaving a net charge for interest in 1867 of
$4,660,661. The net increase from 1867 to 1885 is $2,944,-
428, Now, it may be said, looking at all we have under-
taken and accomplished, and all that was required to
support our undertakings, we have only increased our
«zpenditure under this head by $2,294,428 over the

1 ■*■ ■-'.

-v>

charge for 186*7, and it will be rem< mbered that
we had to bear the charge in 1867 when we were
only four Provinces with a popalation of 3,331,000.
Now, when we embrace the whole Dominion, from
the Atlantic to the Pacific, and have made largo ezpen-
ditures to develop this coantry, it is easily seen
that, without this, we could not have accomplished what we
did. It required labor and money to dig canals and improve
the navigation of rivers and lakes ; it required large ezpen*
diture of money to build wharves and piers, to erect harbors
of refuge along our coasts, and to dot our coasts and lakes
with lighthouses to facilitate navigation and connect us with
the commerce of the world. It required money to construct
railways. Without it we could not have cut down hills, filled
up valleys, and spanned rivers ; we could not have laid the
iron rail from city to city, from town to town, as we have
done all over the Dominion. We could not have sent the iron
horse over the broad prairie nor cut a pathway through the
Rockies, for him to take the traveller down through the plea-
sant valleys and into the beautiful clime of British Columbia,
if the hon, member for West Durham (Mr. Blake) will allow
me to apply the term beautiful to that Province. We have
done all this ; but to do it all, it was necessary that there
should be large expenditure and that our indebtedness should
be increased, and the result is that we paid, to the 30th
June, 1885, $3,994,428 more than we paid in 1867. But I
want the House to bear in mind that the population in 1867
was 3,331,000, that the total interest paid in 1867 was $4,660,-
661, after deducting the interest received on assets. That
makes a per capita charge on the population of $1.39^^
per head. In 1885, we paid $7,665,089 on a popu-
lation which I should be disposed to estimate at
4,800,000, but I presume the hon. gentleman will
question that, and I shall take off 100,000 to meet

his views, in order that there may be no discussion upon
2

^:-

this point; and on a population of 4,700,000 we paid
$1.63 in 1886, making a difference in interest paid in 1885
and that paid in 1867 of only 23 and one-tenth oents per
head of the population ; and I am sure, when we look at ail
that has been undertaken and acoomplished, and when we
look at the condition of the people, those of us who remem-
ber 1867 and those who know anything of the condition of
the people at present will say that they are better able to pay
a taxation for interest of 81.63 per head now than they were
to pay $1.39 in 1867. I am disposed to pursue this a little
further. A speech was delivered by the hon. the leader of
the Opposition, a celebrated speooh, a speech which attract-
ed the attention of the whole Dominion, and : deed, the
attention of other countries ; a speech which may be con-
sidered so important that the greatest care should have been
taken in its utterances. The hon. gentleman on that occa-
sion stated that we had increased the burden of interest and
of indebtedness beyond the wildest conjecture of 18^8 or
1882. I think it necessary to pursue this matter a, little
further, and see whether we are amenable t'j tbd charge of
having increased the burden of interest since 1878. When
the hon. gentleman assumed office in 1873, the charge for
inteiest in the financial year 1873-74 was $6,161,577. When
they left office, five years after, the charge for interest in
the year 1878-70 was $6,687,794, an increase of $1,526,217 ;
or an average increase per year of $305,244. In the finan-
cial year ending June 30th, 1885, the net charge for interest
was $7,666,089. Take from this the interest upon the publio
debt in the year when they left office, $6,687,794, and we
have $967,295 as the net increase in seven years, or an
average increase of $127,182 a year as against $306,244
during the period that those hon. gentlemen held office. I
do not think that, if the hob. member for West Durham
(Mr. Blake) had looked at the figures and had seen that when
his friends were in office and he himself was aiding them.

fr-

the rate of inorease had heen 238 per cent, faster than it wat
Arom 1878 to 1885, he would not have, upon so important
an ocoasion, annoanoed to the world that wd were inoreaaing
the burdens of interest beyond the wildest imagination of
18*78. Bat let me treat this in another way. In 18*78*79 the
interest per head of the population, taking it at 4,126,366, waa
$1.66^ ; in 1885, on a population of 4,700,000, it is $1.63 per
head of the population, or actually 3} centb per head less in
1885 than it was in 1878, when those hon. gentlemen left
office. And yet the leader of the Opposition announces that
we are increasing the burdens of the population beyond
the wildest imagination of any man in 1878. I do not say
the amount of our indebtedness is less than it was in
1878*79. Oh, no. Bat I say that the credit of the country
has been so improTcd by wise legislation, by wise adminis-
tration and by the systematic and proper expenditure of the
money that has been borrowed, that we have reduced the
rates at which capital has been procured. Capital demands
from the borrower that the security shall be good, capital
demands that the purposes to which the money is to
be applied shall tend to the improvement of tha
security, and that the person seeking the loan shall
have, under ordinary circumstances, the wisdom properly
to apply that money to improve the security. When a
country seeks to borrow, capital exacts the same conditions
as from a private borrower. The hon. member for South
Huron (Sir Richard Gartwright) seemed to be fully im-
pressed with this on the first occasion on which he went to
England to borrow money. He then issued a prospeotuSf
which has become, I may say, famous in Canadian
history. He described the condition of the country as he
received it from the hands of his predecessors. He
enumerated in that prospectus the successive, the con-
tinuous surpluses that had been given each year from 1867
downwards. He enumerated the various public works
2i

which had been undertakoD, which had boon cariied for-
ward, and which would yield a large revenae to the ooantry,
and would enable the country to pay the money that
might bd borrowed for the completion of those works. The
hon. gentleman knew the value of having the country well
represented, and he knew that it was well to make a favor-
able impression upon the minds of capitalists, and to prepare
them for accepting the lowest possible rates for their money.
Bat the hon. gentleman, Sir, contrary to the usual practice,
contrary to what I would have expected on that occasion,
did not test the market, he did not try how far the
advantages that ho set forth in his prospectus would
affect the money market, and would improve the rate at
which he might receive it. He praised the country, spoke of
the condition of the country as being prosperous, and of the
purposes xor which the money would bo applied as IjDnding
to increase the revenue and make the country better able
to pay the indebtedness upon maturity. But, as I said, he did
not test the effect which that might have had upon the public
mind, but named himself the price at which he would be
willing to dispose of the bonds, fixing the price at the very
lowest possible rate. Now, Mr, Speaker, what I meant to
f)ay was that we have been able so to improve the condition
of the country and our credit abroad, that we have exchanged
bonds bearin<? a high rate of interest for bonds bearing
lower rates of interest and at the best prices, and thus
reduced the taxation necessary to be placed apon the country
in order to meet our indebtedness. It is not that our indebt-
edness, on the whole, has diminished ; it is because we
have been able, from the improved credit of the ooantry,
to make this exchange, and, nq|twithstanding that, we have
fissamed all the debts of the various Provinces that have
been admitted between 1873 and 1884, amounting to $27,-
€30,058. Add to this the ezpenditare for the Intercolonial
And canals and other necessary public works. And after all,

'«

the taxation on the people of the oountrj, in 1885, is 3| ots.
lesB per head than it was in 1878. The hon. gentleman
will, perhaps, claim that it was from ^he changed condition
of the money market that this wa largely due. I find,
from a statement pabliehed by Mv. Giffeo, statistician to
the English Board of Trade, the rates of interest and the
average rates of discount charged by the Bank of England,
in quinquennial periods, from 1875 to 1879, the lowest
rate of discount was 2 per cent, and the highest 5f.
The average between those two years was 8f ^ ; the average
between 1830 and 1884 was 3^^^, and the lowest was about
2 per cent. The highest in the five years was 5|f . In
January, 1885, it was 4 per cent. ; in March, 3^; in May, 3,
on May 14th, 2| ; June, 2 ; November 12th, 3 per cent. The
hon. gentleman will see by this that from 1875 upwards
the rates of discount in the Bank of England ranged from
2 to 5 per cent., and is very little less now. I have here a
statement prepared by the Financial Agents at the time that
Sir Leonard negotiated his loan, showing that the Canadian
loan was more approved, that it commanded a higher rate
npon the English market, than those of Victoria, Queens*
land. New Zealand and South Australia. The importance
of standing well with the money markets of England cannot
be over-estimated. It can only be seen when we look at the
results. If we are able to go to the money market of
England and place a loan at par, if we can sell a hundred
dollar bond for $100 in cash, it is a great deal better for us
than if we could only be able to bring back $88, or something
thereabouts, as the hon. gentleman opposite did in 1874.
Now, to illustrate the importance of this matter, I desire to
call attention to the results. Take the unguaranteed loan
of 1874, which was placed upon the market by the hon.
gentleman opposite, and the unguaranteed loan of 1876.
These two loans amounted to $31,633,333, and the money
that he netted for them and brought back to Canada was

only $28,064,770, showing a loss of $3,568,563, or aboat
11-28 per cent. The loan of 1885, converted to 4 per oent.,
was for $31,356,595, a sum jast aboat eqaal to the two
sums the hon. gentleman placed upon the English market
in 1874 and 1876. This sam netted $30,930,651, showing
a loss of only $425,944, or aboat 1*36 as against 1 1-28 on the
hon. gentleman's two loans. The loans of 1874 and the loan
of 1885 that Sir Leonard Tilley placed last sammer were
for the aame amoant, $19,466,666. The loss on the former
was $2,208,329, or 11'34 per cent. ; on the latter, $140,443,
or aboat -^^ of 1 per cent. So the House will be able to
see that a great deal depends upon keeping the credit of
the country in the money market well established,
that cor credit should stand high when we have
occasion to borrow money — but I hope that our days
of borrowing are pretty well over. Now, I suppose
reference will be made by hon. gentlemen opposite to
the condition of the United States. In undertaking public
works we have to consider the amount of interest, the pre-
sent burden, that they impose upon us for interest, and wa
have to look at the resulo of that work, and see what it will
yield to the country, how it will effect the future, and
whether the ezpenditure< will enable posterity to meet the
burden of payment. We have improved the condition o?
the country; Its credit, and the rate of interest has not
been unduly burdensome. We bolievo that the return
from the public works we have undertaken to carry to
completion wUl enable our posterity to pay the indebtedness
without its being unduly felt by them. The United States
in 1865 emerged from the greatest civil war of history and
with an enormous amount of indebtedness. Many a time
during that struggle, men were heard to say that the coun-
try would bo ruined, and ihey were advised to stop in their
expenditure and in their offoits to maintain the Union. But
they went on. they pucoeedtd, and when thej emerged from

that war they had a debt of $2,773,000,000, all at high
rates of interest. They had a depreciated currency and
their bills were selling that year at not more than 40 or 50
cents on the dollar. Bat they had preserved the Union ;
they had a large qaantity of fertile prairie in the newer
territories ; they had a policy of protection for home indns*
tries which gave employment at wages which drew from
all parts of the world population to them. In fourteen
years after they emerged from that struggle their paper
money was at par ; they had resumed specie payments, and
they have gone on reducing their indebtedoess, and the
burden of that Indebtedness and of reducing it is not
felt by the people of the United States. And so it is
with us. We are just emerging from a great war against
the obstacles of nature, a successful, a triumphant war, and
we have removed all those obstacles and made our country
one; and the same result will follow. We have created
public works which will be more important factors in
enabling us to redeem our indebtedness than were to the
United States the honored graves of the men who fell on
their battle-fields. We have for our indebtedness visible
public property to represent it When we went into Con-
fedektotion in 1867 our indebtedness was $75,728,611. On
the admission of Prince Edward Island and British
Columbia it was increased by the debts of those Provinces
and by the allowance to Manitoba, and in 1874 and 1884
additional allowances were made to all the Provinces by
the assumption of the debt that was left with Ontario and
Quebec. The whole of these increases amount to $27,630,058,
making a total indebtedness for that of 1867 and the additions
to the Provinces, $103,358,699. On 30th June the net indebt-
edness reached $196,407,692, or a net increase on publio
works and expenditures of $93,048,993. This is a pretty large
sum and it involves the payment of a pretty large amount
for interest ; but, as I have shown, and as I believe, it is not

nndaly burdensome, ooDsidering the oondition of the peoplo-
and the purposes to whioh it was expended. But, Mr.
Speaker, it oooars to me that the ex-Finance Minister will
not very much compjain of this increase of indebtednesu,
at all events, of the amount that has been expended
on public worksi It will be in the recollection of
the House that in 1871; on the delivery of his^ first
Budget speech, he contemplated large undertakings, and
proposed to increase the public indebtedness by the sum of
911,000,000. It will also be in the recollection of the
House that he asked Parliament to increase the taxation o£
the country to the extent of $3,000,000 to meet payments for
intorest on the accumulated indebtedness which he had m
view. That sum of $3,000,000 would have'permitted him.
to have borrowed something like i»75,000,000 at 4 per cent,
without any sinking fund. And it will also be in tha
remembrance of the House that np to the day the hon»
gentleman took ofSce we had had very considerable snr*
pluses, and the addition to the revenue and the surplus^
that existed at the time of this taking office would have
paid interest on a very large expenditure for public works.
At the close of the financial year 1873-74, on which he
assumed office, the net debt amounted to $108,324,965.
On aotb June, 1878-9, it amounted to $142,990,187, showing
a net increase of $34,665,222. But the House will under*
stand that the indebtedness incurred by hon. gentlemen
opposite was more than the amount I have just named by
the amount of the fishery award whioh was paid in
the financial year in which they left office, but after
they went out of office, and this reduced the amount by
$4,480,882, so that the increase of indebtedness for the five
years in which they were in office and for which they were
responsible was $39,166,104, or a yearly average increase
of $7,831,220. In order to make a comparison of the debt-
creating proclivities of the two parties represented by the-

'»

Y(.

•M!

present Government and hon. gentlemen opposite, I may
be permitted to look at the figures for which we are
responsible.

Mr. CHARLTON. You are responsible for all.

Mr. MoLELAN*. The hon. gentleman says we are res-
ponsible for all. That is a matter which we are willing to
discuss on any proper occasion, I may say that the ex-*
Finance Minister in his first year did not evince any hesita-
tion in increasing the indebtedness. I have shown that he
came down to the House and asked to be allowed to increase
the indebtedness in one year by $11,000,000, more than, I
think, had been attempted up to that period
The increase of indebtedness from 1867 to 1885,
exclusive of the allowances to Provinces, was 093,048,483 'y
and the hon. gentlemen opposite are accountable for
$39,156,104, leaving $53,892,889 as the net increase charge-
able to our right hon. leader for the thirteen years of his
administration, showing an average increase of $4,145,156 as
against an average increase of $7,831,220 by hon. gentle-
men opposite. The hon. member for North Norfolk (Mr.
Charlton) says we are responsible for it all, but he will find
that by a comparison of the figures that when he and his
friends were in power they increased the debt by $7,831,220
a year, while we on this side have, in the thirteen years,
only increased it $4,145,156. Perhaps the hon« gentleman
will say that I should not have deducted from this amount
the $27,630,000 allowed to the old and to the new Provinces.
But I take that out because the Provinces of Prince Edward
Island and British Columbia, when they came in, had debts
upon them, and it was merely a transfer of indebtedness to
the Dominion. The Provinces of Ontario and Quebec hav-
ing beeu relieved of their indebtedness,all the otherProvinces
received a proportionate amount in order to enable them to
meet their local requirements. Bat while I do not say that we
should be charged for that $27,630,000 which came from tha

Frovinces, I do not pretend to charge it to hon. gentlemen
opposite. They are, Sir, not guilty of incurring any public
indebtedness for any of the Provinces. They never gave a
dollar to one of the Provinces to increase their funds for
local requirements, nor added a Province to the Dominion ;
every acre of territory that ha« been added to the
Dominion at large, and every dollar that has been pro-
vided for the local funds of the Provinces, has been paid by
our right hon. leader and his party from 1867 down to the
present time. Now, Sir, I have stated that, apart from the
original indebtedness of the Provinces in 1867, and apart
from what we have added for the Provinces admitted,
and assumed from the older Provinces, that the in-
crease of indebtedness to 1835 ha^ been $93,048,000. This
is represented by railways, by canals, and by public build-
ings, in all amounting to $142,550,875. So that taking the
purposes outside and apart from the admission of the new
Provinces, and the additions that we have made to the
revenues of the older Provinces, we have increased the
public debt $93,043,000, and have expended on public works
$142,650,875. So, in addition to the increase of debt, we
have ezpunded $49,501,882 paid from annual revenue, show-
ing a large margin of property which is held by the
Dominion over and above its indebtedness to the public.
The next item. Sir, in the Public Accounts of any magni-
tude, is sinking fund, which has now reached a very large
sum, which was last year $1,482,051, the accumulations
amounting to $15,885,000 as available for the redemption
of the public indebtedness. I come now to another large
item in the Public Accounts, and I am disposed to ask the
House to bear with me a little, because I find in respect to
this item that there has been a great change, or there has
been a new manifestat: i of opinion — I do not say of public
opinion, but of party ^^>inion— in respect to that item. We
fiaw it announced last autumn that a convention of the

Liberal party was to be held in the city o( Toronto. That
convention was held, and it was spoken of by the oigan of
the party as being a large and representative convention.
I tarn to the Globe of the 16th of September, and I find an
editorial headed as follows : —

" Young LibenAa— Getting fairly down to work— The work of the day
— Resolationa adopted by the conrention— Hon. R. Blake elected Hon.
ProBident."

That article said :

" The moat sangnine hopea of the young men who originated the
idea of a Oonrention of Tonng Liberals from all parts of the Province,
and who hare for the paat few months been working to promote the
movement throughout the country, were far exceeded yesterday morn-
ing aa groups after groups of membera presented themselves at the
doors of Shaftesbury Hall to attend the convention. Th3 observer
could not fail to notice the alert, active bearing of the delegates, and
their general look of keen intelligence. It may be said without offen-
liveness toward any other gathering that there never before has been
in Toronto or probably in the Dominion an assemblage pervaded by a
more thoroughly Canadian air. While there was plenty of life, there
was little boisterousness, and while the utmost good humour and
courtesy prevailed, tcere was manifested a most business-like intoler-
ance of anything that seemed to tend toward sectionalism, hobby-
riding, or the indulgence in fads of any kind. All appeared to fully
realise that they were not here for mere amusement or child's play, but
to discuss soberly and conacientioasly the political situation of the
country."

Now, with saoh an annoanoement as this, and with the de-
scription of sach an assemblage as this, I think it bat right
that its doings should receive some consideration at the
hands of the country and of myself on this occasion. On
the following day the same paper said :

" The young Liberal Oonrention resumed session at 9 o'clock this
morning, the newly elected president, Mr. A. F. Mclntyre, in the chair.
The delegates were punctual and the attendance larger than the pro-
vioas day.' '

In the Globe of the proced'ig day, the names of a large
number of gentlemen are given. I do not know many of
tnem, but I happen to know the president, Mr. Molntyre,
and I am sure he is not engaged in anything like hobby-

riding or fads of any kind, and I take it this means serions
business. I find the Globe of the following day announcing
as follows: —

" The Liberal Coavention, which dosed its meetings on Wednesday,
was all which its most sangaine friends could have wished it to be.
The attendance was large and thoroaghl j representative ; the speaking
exceptioaaliy good ; the orderliness and bosiness tact di played such as
the most fastidious could not object to ; while the moat absolute freedom
of discussion was maintained thi-onghout. Motions were only voted
down after those in their favor had been fully heard. However much
any of the speakers might be out of accord with the general sentiment
and feeling of the meeting, they still received patient and courteous
attention to the close, and while their arguments and utterances were
treated with perfect frankness, there was no attempt made either unduly
to weaken the force of these or to belittle their importance.

*' Nothing was more conspicuous throughout than the uniform good
temper displayed, as well as the readiness with which the paints were
taken, and the frank cordiality with which, as far as possible, concessions
were acquiesced io,and a full yetmoderate and soundly Liberal programme
agreed upon. There was little or no crankiness ; no settled determination
to ride hobbies ; "—

Tou see that on the first day it was announced that no

hobbies were to bo ridden, and that at the close it was

stated that no hobbies had been ridden.

" no persistent efifort to carry at all haz&rds any particular or personal
fad ; no resolution to lead ; no apparent desire, even, to shine. It was a
business meeting, and was accordingly conducted in a practical,
bniiness-like style.

" To say that it was ' captured 'by any clique or coterie whatever
would be absurdly out of accordance with facts. The convention would
neither stultify nor compromise Itself by going further than the majority
of its members approved of, or by stopping short of what that majority
believed to be indispensable. If once or twice the tail sought to shake the
dog, the dog simply refused to be shaken, and the tail then accepted the
situation and subsided, if it did not perhaps altogether acquiesce."

Now, I find that the Eentiments of that convention were
participated in by the Club National of Montreal, which
sent this :

« The Olab National, Hontteal, sends greetings, and wishes success
to your movement. Let your platform be a broad one. Our aspirations
are alike. They may to-day alarm many because of th)ir boldness, but
ideas ripen as quick as man, and with pluck and energy we may live to
harvest what "ve sow in the political field.— R. Danduband, President.'*

<i^

■ ■ ^

To this the president of the convention replied :

« The Toang Men's Liberal Associatioa of Ontario in convention
aasembled heartily accepts the fra4;ernal greeting, good wishes and
counsels of the Olab iVational as conveyed by your telegram and Mayor
Beaugrand. We are trying to arrange for a Dominion Oonrention at
Montreal, vfith a view to further thu canse which you and wo have Bo
earnestly at heart. The platform we have adopted is practical and pro-
gressi^e, and our sentiments are largely in consoaance with yours.— A;
F. MoIntybb, President."

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have read one of these headings in
which it was declared that the Hon. E. Blake, the leader of
his party, was elected honorary- president of that organic
sation. I find that the hon. gentleman accepted the honor,
and accepted the platform that was laid down there, and he
took decision to announce that in his celebrated speech at
LondoQi On that occasion Mr. Blake said :

" I thank you, from the bottom of my heart I thank you, for the warmth
and cordiality of your reception. I know it to be far beyond any poor
deserts of mine, but it is another and most marked expression of that
contipuous, abiding and unbounded kindness and confidence which has
been showered on me by the Liberal party for these many years, and
specially during those dark and trying times which hare passed since I
took the lead. Will you allow me to use this my earliest opportunity to
congratulate che Liberals of Ontario on the activity they are now dis-
playing, and particularly to express my joy at the energetic conduct
and snccessfal organisation of the youag Liberals— (cheers)->and mj
grateful thanks for the honor done me by my election to the honorary
, presidency of their great convention, a gathering from which I an-
ticipate the best results."

The hon. leader of the Opposition there accepts the presi-
dency of the organisation foiiJied at that convention, and
accepts the platform adopted. I was under the impres-
sion. Sir, that there was but one opinion upon the matter
to which I have referred among the whole people of this
Dominion. I find that one of the resolutions — and I only
deal with the one bearing on the matter I have now in
hand — reads thus:

"Resolved, That this convention disapproves of the payment of aab-
flidies out of the Dominicn Treasury to the Provincial LegiBlatares,
believing that tiie system of subsidies leads to extravagance on the part

30 *

of the ProTincial Legislatares, because they have the power of expend-
ing money without the responsibility of imposing taxes ; also, the sub-
sidy system as carried out in Oanada causes the bnik of the revenues to
be collected by indirect taxation, whereas direct taxation is more just
and more economical. Therefore, resolved that this convention
approves of such a change in the British North America Act as shall
provide that each Province of the Confederation shall oallect as well as
expmd its own revenues."

Now, this is so important a proposition that I thought it
desirable \o call the attention of the Hoose to the matter at
this stage of my review of the accounts. We are now pay-
ing out to the several Provinces about $4,000,000. The
platform adopted by the Opposition gentlemen, and
accepted by the leader of the Opposition, declares that it is
unwise and unjust that we should continue the payment of
these subsidies, and that the Provincial Legislatures should
be taught to resort to direct taxation in order to raise the
revenues they require, so that they may be taught economy
in their expenditure. Now, I have no doubt this will
greatly relieve hon. gentlemen opposite, should they 'fjver
come to power. Thei hon. member for South Huron
(Sir Bichard Oartwright) would fiud it a considerable relief
to his estimates if he could have that plank of the
Opposition platform adopted by the country, and could
strike out of his estimates the $1,000,000 that we now pro-
vide for subsidies. Bat until that time comes, and until
the hon. gentleman can persuade the country to accept that
doctrine and resort to direct taxation for local purposes, we
shall have to provide in our Estimates for Provincial sub-
sidies nnder the British North America Act, and, I think,
for some considerable time we shall bdcJled upon to do so.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I have provided in the Estimates for
1886-87 for the payments of the subsidies to the Local Legis-
latures. Ck)ming then to the expenditures for public works
charged to revenue, they amount to $2,302,362, for which,
as I am sure hon. gentlemen who have seen the works
constructed by that department, know we have valuo

.10

and they were called for by the wants of the coantry.
The post office has been for some years increasing the
charges npon our revenue. In the opening up of the North-
West, it was necessary that we should give postal aocommc-
' dation to large districts from which there was very little
return ; but, notwithstanding we were called upon to make
extraordinary expenses in furnishing additional aocommoda*
tion, the receipts from the Post Office Department compare
most favorably with those of preceding years. In 1884,
there was a falling off of the revenue which has been made
up by the returns of 1885 ; and so far in the present year,
there seems to be a steady increase. I may be permitted,
in this connection, to give a few statistics by way of com-
parison :— In 1878. we had 5,378 poet offices ; in 1885 we
had 7,084, an increase of 1,706. The miles of post route in
1873 were 38,730, and, in 1885, 50,461 ; or an increase of
11,731. The letters sent in 1878 amounted to 44,000,000,
and in 1885, 68,400,000, showing an increase of 24,400,000.
The money order post offices in 18V8 numbered 769, and in
1885, 885, an inorease of 116. The amount of money orders
issued in 1878 was $7,130,895, and in 1885,610,384,210,
an increase of $3,253,315. There has been an inorease
in the letters tent of 24,400,000, or 55*45 per oent.
between 1878 and 18d5 ; and I find, on comparing our
returns with the postal returns of older countries — with
those of Great Britain, for instance— that our percentage
of increase has been very much larger than the per-
centage in that country; as in 1878, the letters des-
patched in Great Britain were 1,058,000,000, and in 1885,
1,360,000,000, showing an increase of 302,000,000, or 28-64
per cent, against our increase of 55*45 per oent. ; so that we
have an increase nearly double that of Great Britain. The
increase of the receipts and expenditures may be compared
also. Our receipts in 1878 amounted to $ 1,20 7,790, and in 1885
to $1,841,372, an increase of $633,582, or 5246 per oent> Our

.32 , .

expenditure in 18*78 amoanted to $1,724,938, and in 1886 to

$2,488,315, an increase of $763,377, or 41-25 per cent Thus

oar receipts from the Post Office since 1878 increased 62

per cent., while our expenditure increased only 4i'25 per

cent. Between 1874 and 1878 a simi'ar comparison might

be made. The receipts from 1874 to 1878 increased bat

5' 94 per cent., while the expenses increased 24*34 per

cent., BO that, althoagh between 1874 and 1878 the

expenditure showed a much greater percentage of increase

than the receipts, the increase of receipts between 1878

and 1886 is much larger than, the increase of ex*

penditure. The increase of traffic on our railways

and canals has also called for a very large expenditure,

which tends to swell the volume of the estimates,

without at all affecting the taxation of the country. I may

be permitted to refer to the increase in the traffic at another

time, but I say the large expenditure which we are called

upon to make in the working of the Intercolonial Railway

and of our canals, has tended to increase the volume of

expenditure shown in the Fablio Accounts, without at

all increasing the taxation of tbe country. Yet it

has been attempted to convey the impression that all

this increase of volume in the accounts is an increase in

taxation. I have shown that the receipts from sources

which are not taxation, have, since 1878, very largely

increased, running from $4,000,000 np to between

$7,000,000 and $8,000,000. If we were to-morrow to take

possession of all the telegraph lines in the country, and

were to send messages at less rates than are now charged,

the volume of our accounts would be largely increased,

while there would, perhaps, be a gain to the people and

consequently less taxation, owing to the reduced rates

which we might charge for the messages. In this case as

in the others, the volame of public exptmditure might be

largely increased, and it might with the same propriety bo

tnisreproBentod to show there w&s a largo increase in
the taxation of the country, although in reality there was a
decrease. A great deal has been said on the hustings with
reference to our position in 1867, and I have been reminded
of the charge which has baon so persistently and continu-
ously made against us in connection with the increase of
our expenditure from 1867 to 1885. It may not ba unprofit-
iible, then, to go back to 1867 and make some comparisons
•between the expenditure in that year of over S 13,000,000
and the expenditure of 1885; so that we may see wherein
there has been an increase, and in what way, if any, we
are amenable to the charge of having unduly increased
the expenditure. I have pointed out that the receipts from
Railways, public works and post offices, and other sources,
none of which are taxation any more than would be the
expenditure on telegraph lines, have nearly doubled since
1878, whilst from 1867 they have very nearly quadrupled.
In 1867, the receipts were $1,987,240, and in 1885
they were $7,869,809, showing an increase in receipts of
$5,818,842, and the expenses have correspondingly increased.
Now, the increases for working these services,! think,should
be fairly taken out of the accounts before we institute
the comparison. I have shown that the hon. gentlemen
opposite are more chargeable with having increased the
public indebtedness of the country than gentlemen on this
eide, and, at all events, if they are not, that we have
^ood property and good value for the 'Expenditure that we
have made, and that therefore the charge for interest might
also be eliminated from the accounts before we proceed with
4he comparison. Then there is the increase of subsidies to
the Local Governments. We have brought in new Pro-
vinces, we have increased the subsidies that we have paid,
and I do not think that that increase, at least, should be
chargeable against us. We have added new territory, and
we have bean compelled to incur new expenses which

were not Id the aooouots of 18C7 — I mean expenses in
the North- West. ' Now, if we take from the aoooants all
such expenses as I have referred to, we come down to the
increases in the ordinary workings of Government, of
whioh the hon. gentlemen have a right to complain if we
have unduly increased them since 1867. First, dealing with
the interest in its gross charge, and excluding the receipts,
there is an increase in 1885 over 1867-8, without manage-
ment, of $4,917,914. On construction and repairs of publio
works there is an increase of $2,423,300, and, as I have said,
we have visible property for this, so that this may come
cat. The increase on the working expenses of railways
and canals, which is not a charge to taxation, is $3,840,745.
The increase for the post office is $1,871,513; subsidies to
the new Provinces, $1,205,360; the increase in the sinking
fund, and discounts and exchange, is $1,207,933 ; on immi-
gration and quarantine, and on services in connection with
the North- West Territory, $717,836. The protection and
the cultivation of fisheries and the p.iymont of the fishing
bounty is a new service, which, I assume, will be approved
very generally by the House, and in that the increase is
$250,000. Then there are those services which are entirely
new, the mounted police. Dominion lands, Indians in the
North- West and in British Calumbia, and the Government
of the North-West, amounting to $2,331,929. Then there
is a charge of $1,791,851 for the trouble in the North- West,
in the accounts of 1885. Taking out these special items,
of increases, from the accounts of 1885, we have
left civil government, legislation, administration of justice,
the maintenance of the penitentiaries, the collection of
onstoms from Halifax to Victoria, the collection of
excise, the militia and defence of the country, th»
maintenance of lights, buoys and fog alarms, marine
hospitals, distressed seamen, steamboat and insurance
inspection! pensions, management of the publio debt^

and misoellaneoas services in regard to all of which we
might make a comparison with 1867 ; and in making this
comparison it mnet he home in mind that we are govern-
ing, we are legislating for, and administering justice to a
country ten times larger than it was in 1867, that we are
collecting twenty millions of revenue fVom Onstoms instead
of eight, and six millions from Excise instead of three, and
that all the other services are proportionately increased ;
and yet the figares show only an increase in the ezpondi*
ture of a little over two millions of dollars in eighteen
years. If yon take the total expenditure of 18B4-85,
935,037,060,aDd deduct the increase upon the special service^
which I have named as proper to be taken out, $19,469,658,
you have left $15,567,402; from which take the expendi-
ture of 1867-68, 813,486,092, and you have for eighteen
years an increase upon all the services I have named of
only $2,081,310. And looking at the changes in the
country, looking at the increased area and the inoreased
hnsiness we have been doing, there is not a country in the
world that has shown so little increase in all these matters
connected with the civil government of the country as the
Dominion of Canada has during that period. If we go to
the United States we find that the expenditure in 1867
was $51,110,221 — that is exolnsive of army, navy, pensions,
war, Indians and the interest. In 1885 it had risen to
$87,494,000, an increase of $36,000,000, without any in-
crease of area at all such as we have. So, as I said, there
is not, perhaps, in the history of the world, an instance in
which a country has extended her operations so largely, has
increased the responsibilities and duties of government so
much, and has not increased her expenses more than the
Dominion of Canada. I might take np any one of the ser-
vices to which I have referred, and show what an enormone
increase there has been in all the departments* I might be
permitted, perhaps, to detain the House for a few moments,

in order to refer to the ligbthonso and coast eervice,
and to show the great increase there has been io
that ser/ice, as an illastration of the increase in
every department of the public service. In 1867
the member for Northumberland (Mr. Mitchell)
took charge of the lighthouse and buoy service of
the Dominion, and of the lights existing at Confede-
ration. The number then was 227 lighthouses, and two fog
alarms, and the ex^K^nditure was $174,982. The hon.
gentleman saw the importance of th?^t service, and with that
vigor of intellect and that energy for which he is so distin-
guished in this House or out of it, gave that energy and
that vigor of intellect to the improvement of that service,
and I am sure it could not have been better employed than
in improving and facilitating the navigation of the country
and in providing means to render life and property more
secure than it was in 1867, when he took charge of it.
When he went out in i. 873-74, he had increased the lights
to 384, and the fog alarms to eighteen — an increase of 157
lights in the comparatively short time during vhioh he
adfiiniblered the department. The hon. gentleman had
successors in Sir Albert Smith and the Hon. Mr. Pope, and,
when they lefi. office, the number of lights had increased to
653. When I took charge of the department, I supposed,
looking at the large increase, that there would be no
additions required, but the new services, the opening
up of the country, and the increased shipping to all
parts of it, called for additions even to the large
number that had been already made. When I left
that department, a few months ago, I left it with the number
increased to 617, and with an expenditure of $530,446.
That expenditure. Sir, covered the construction of the light-
houses of the year, it covered the maintenance of the 617
lighthoises that wore then in operation, all the buoy service,
with the addition of the coaot service, and the maintenance

cf the different fog alarms that had largely been increased
throughout the country. I only refer to this to illustrate
the extent of the service that we are called upon to deal
with in the government of the country. Notwithstanding,
that the work has so largely increased, I have shown to the
House that in the eighteen years, comparing 1867 with
1885, there has been an increase of slightly over two mil-
lion dollars, which is unequalled, I say, in the history of
any other country in the world ; and I anticipate that in
the eighteen years to come we shall not bo called upon to
make even so large an increase as this to the ordinary
expenditure of govornment, because we shall not be increas-
ing our area and adding new Provinces so largely as we
Lave done. - *

It being six o'cLick, the Speaker left the Chair.

After Recess.

Mr. McLELAN. When the House rose at six o'cloek,
I was speaking of the expenditure as E»hown in the accounts
of 1886. Without goiug back to that subject let me dwell
for a moment nponSthe accounts of the current year 1885-86.
The current year has been so far characterized by several
disturbing elements to trade and revenue^ We had in ii >
early, part of the year the North- West trouble, we had the
Affects of the anticipation of the revenue that had been
made through Excise, we hadthedisturbanceof trade which
occurred in the city of Montreal, owing to the amall poz
epidemic which distui bed, to a large extent, and for a con-
siderable time, the trade of that great commercial metro-
polis. All these things have had their effect on the trade
of the country, and upon the revenues that were derived.
At the present time. Sir, we stand fairly well. Taking out
North-West expenditure and putting that aside, we had up
to the 10th March, when the return was made, a total
expenditure of $25,938,481. Of this there has been charged

to the war expenses $2,502,936, leaving as the ordinary
expenditure $23,455,C45. The receipts from all sonrces up
to the same date have been $24,030,060, or a gnrplos at the
present time, or up to the 20th of March, of $6*74,51 6*
That is veiy well as far as it goes, but we have vwy con-
siderable expenditure to meet during the year in the shape
of interest and other items, w-hich I fear will not leave the
balance at the end of the year at all so favorable. Looking
at the expenditure of 1885-86, it will be seen that the de-
tailed amounts of supply during the last Session on account
of the consolidated fund, amount to $35,2*75,000. Taking
out of this sum $2,300,000 estimated as the expenditure in
connection with the North-West rebellion, the ordinary ex-
penditure as estimated was $32,9*75,000. This will have to
be supplemented by an addition for the interest on the
public debt of $*730,000. The amount included in the esti-
mate of 1885-86 for new loans and other indebtedness was
$2,250,000, of which the amount for new loans was placed
at $1,880,000, representing a capital of $4*7,000,000, from
which deduct the amount of the 5 per cent, consolidated
loan of $31,3*71,000, converted to 4, leaving $15,627,000
for new loans. After the 5 per cent, loan was converted
into a 4 per cent, there was borrowed $19,446,666, ard
there was a temporary loan of $5,835,000, and an increase
in the deposits in the savings bank of $4,442,203. It will be
seen that there was thus borrowed the sum of $14,125,000
more than we covered by the estimate. The interest on
this amount will be $565,000, and there is required in order
to cover the subsidies given to the Province of Quebec
$119,000, which was not estimated for, and $471,000 the
interest on the 5 per cent, stock which was converted into
4 per cent., for which only one-half the interest was oalcu-
cated by Sir Leonard when he made his estimates. There
was also a further increase in the sinking fund which was
not estimated for, being a year's payment on the reduced

loan. Those who have studied carefully the Public Accounts
of that year will find that Sir Leonard Til ley did not take
an estimate for sinking fund for the loan which he convert-
ed from 6 per cent, into 4 per cent, I suppose his intention
being to issue a new loan and issue it without a sinking
fhnd. It was converted on the same conditions as regards
sinking fund, and we shall have to provide for that $470,-
000. The other ordinary expenditures on account of public
works, post office, lighthouse, coast, militia. Franchise Act,
and other services charged to the consolidated fund, will
amount to $1,500,000, giving a total to be added to the
ordinary expenditure of about $2,700,000.

Mr. LANDERKTN. What amount will be required for
the Franchise Act ?

Mr. MoLFiLAN. That amount we shall be able to esti-
mate more closely later on. These sums show an estimated
payment to be made during the year somewhere in the
neighborhood of $38,500,000, from which if we deduct
what we expect to be required and what we have in this
«6timate, including an amount for expenses in the North-
West, $3,500,000, there will remain $35,000,000 as the
ordinary expenditure to be provided for. It is estimated
from what we have received up to the present time, that
the receipts under the respective heads, will be as follows :
We had received up to yesterday from Customs $14,499,-
664. We estimate to receive sufficient to make the sum
amount to $19,500,000. From Excise we have received
$5,171,000, and we expect to receive $6,250,000. From the
other sources, post office, railways, &c., we expect to obtain
for the year $7,800,000. All these sums, deducted from what
we estimated to be the expenditure, will leave, on the year's
business a deficit of $1,450,000. This, as I said at
the outset, should be divided between the two years
of 1885 and 1886, inasmuch as a part of the
revenue due to the present year has been anticipated

and gone to the oredit of 1885. Coming to the Eatimatev
submitted to the Honee for 1886-87 I desire to say that, so
far as I have found it pc*s8ible, I have estimated in full for
every service we are called upon to meet, except, perhaps,
public works, and there are so many claims, so many de-
mands, and apparently with good reason, made upon that
department, that, until the House rises, it is almost
impossible to say how much will be required for that ser-
vice. My hon. colleague, the Minister of Public Works, is
80 anxious to meet the wishes of all the representative*' of
the people that it is difSoalt to say when his demands upon-
the Treasury will be all in. Taking the several items in
detail I have a few observations to offer. The main increase
arises in the public debt service. The increase in the in*
terest on the public debb is estimated at $118,636, this
arising mainly from the increased deposits in the savings
banks. There has been during the past year considerable
discussion in the public press respecting the rate of interest
which the Grovernment should pay to savings bank depositors,

^ and it seems to be a question which is growing in importance,,
and one upon which I think the hon. gentlemen opposite
have taken the view that we should reduce the interest upon
deposits in the Isavings banks. The Government, having

■ considered this question, does not come to that conclusion.
We believe it is in the interest of the country at large that
every encouragement should be given to the middle class,
to the laboring class, to practice habits of economy and
save their earnings as much as possible ; and for this reason
we are reluctant to reduce the rate and we think it would
be an injustice to them to reduce the rate we are at present
paying to such depositors. We have examined into the prac-
tice in other countries, and find that in England a higher rate
of interest is paid by the Government than is paid in the
commercial banks of the country. We find that in several of
the States— the States of New York, Maine and Massachusetta

' , - ■ 41

— 6 per cent, is allowed to be paid ; and taking all thes^
matters into oonsiderationj and considering mainlj the fact
that it is desirable to encourage the working classes to be
economical and thrifty in their habits, we have refused to
come down to Parliament with a proposition to reduce the
rate of interest in the savings banks. More especially is
this the case when we are paying for the mcTney we have
borrowed abroad, for a large poi'tion of the public debt of
the country, a higher rate than we are paying to depositors
in the savings banks. 1 have had a statement prepared
showing the rates of interest we are paying upon the loans
we have effected since 1874, and although the nominal rate
is 4 per cent., yet when we take into account the charges
made by the agents in London, also the discount made upon
those loans, it appears we are actually paying for the money
we have obtained in England and abroad, a higher rate of
interest than we are paying to our own depositors in the
savings banks. Taking the several loans, from 18*74 to 1885,
I find we have borrowed $ 124,796,598. Upon that sum there
was a discount, to which I referred in the early part of my
observations to the House, of $5,965,040. So while we have
borrowed $124,000,000 odd, and we owe for that and are
paying interest upon it, and some time we shall have to
pay the capital, we did not receive that much monej>
nearly $6,000,000 less, so that the annual interest on the
gross amount of those loans is $4,991,863. Then take
one-half of 1 per cent, added as commission for paying
interest, and it makes the total amount per annum to interest,
$5,016,823, and an actuarial oalculaiion shows that includ-
ing charges the rate which the Government pays on these
loans is nearly 4| per cent. Now, the returns of the work-
ing of the post office savings banks show that the cost,
including interest and expenses, is 4^g- per cent., and a
statement has been prepared of the amount in the savings
banks under the control of the Finance Department, which

Bhows th&t the expenses and interest amoant to 4*22 per
cent.; the average of both is 4*16, or ^^ of 1 per cent,
less than is paid to the foreign lender. The Government
thinks that it is unfair, while we are paying that rate of
interest abroad, that we shonld not pay the same rate of
interest to the working classes of our own coantry, and
enooarage them, as I said before, to habits of thrift and
economy, and to lay by something for a rainy day. It is a
question which has been raised as to whether the amoant
received from any one depositor may not be decreased
— and some changes are likely to be proposed — bat
otherwise we propose to let the matter remain as it isi
Sinking fund shows an addition of $504,407, chiefly made
up by the restoration of the sinking fand for the 4 per cent*
redaoed loan which was omitted last yoar. I need not weary
the HoQse by going over all the particulars respecting the
small increases which are proposed to be made in the various
ranches. Every care ard economy has been exercised in order
to reduce them as low as possible. I said in the outset that
we had estimated largely for those services which usually
come down to the House as Supplementary Estimates, and
which include larger amounts than appear in the original
Estimates. The Indian vote is increased to $lt0,539, and I
expect that will fully cover all the wants of that service.
The mounted police vote has also been increased. There
is no large increase in the collection of revenue service. It
will be noticed that there is a reduction in the superannua-
tion service of $10,000. This arises from the fact that the
superannuation service was rather over-estimated last
year. This is an Item which I think deserves some
explanation to the House and to the country,
because I find that the working of the Superannuation
Act has been largely misrepresented— I do not mean to say
intentionally misrepresented, bat misunderstood. Hon.
gentlemen looking at the Public Accoants, see as the receipts

.^f

43 .

from the Buperannuation fand perhaps $50,000 ; they eee
that the charge is made oat, say, $200,000, and they suppose,
as a matter of course, that the Euperannuation is a tax upon
the country of $150,000 a year, I submitted to the House,
on the opening of Parliament, a statement of the operation
of the Act daring the past year, showing that taking the
superannuations made for the year 1835, there has been a
saving of $5,691 ; that is, that the superannuation
allowance amounted to $18,360, the gratuities to different
persons $2,568, and the new annual appointments $15,763,
making a total of $36,692, whilst the salaries pre-
vioasly received by the persons superannuated amounted
to $42,384, showing a saving by the operation of the
Act of $5,691. But next year and in the other accounts,
the particulars of this statement will drop out, and, as
I said, all a person will see in examining the operations
of the Act will be that we receive £rom the civil
service $50,000, say, and we pay out $200,000, or thau
there has been a loss in the operation of $150,000.
Now, this has not been the case from the passing of the Act
up to the present time. If you examine all the appointments
that have been made at lower salaries and if -you
ascertain all the vacancies by persons who have been
superannuated and their offices not filled, you will find that
there has been a large saving to the country through the
operation of that Act. In 1880 the Finance Department
went through the whole service and made a calculation
showing the branches in which there had been a saving and
those in which there had been a loss to the country from
the operations of the Act. The Department of Finance
showed a saving of $48,548.73; the Department of Agri-
cnltnre, $18,000; the Inland Bevenue Department, $12,570;
the Department of Public Works, $21,000; the Department
of Marine and Fisheiies, $30,000; Secretary of State,
$5,482; Department of tne Interior, $6,893; Customs,

|17t,398. In the Department of Bail ways and Canals there
had been a loss up to that time of $23,025 ; Militia and
Defence, $3,725; Post Office, $6,000, or a gross saving of
$350,183, from which deduct the loss in the three depart-
ments, and yon have still a savin? of $317,325, through the
operation of the Superaunuation Act up to that time. I
have had in my own department the work continued down
to the present date, and I find that for the inside service
only the operations show a still favorable result to the
couLtry in a saving of over $40,000, and that through
the continuous operation of that Act a large saving will
be effected to the country in general. Then, Sir, I
come to other savings which I propose to effect this year,
but I need not weary the House by going through them all.
The total result of my estimates is before the House, show-
ing them to hd $33,124,550. ISow, I come to the other side
of the account — the estimated receipts for the years 1886-87*
I do not propose— I do not think it necessary — to make any
very great ehange in the tariff in order to make up that
sum, and in order to set something aside to meet the deficit
which has arisen from the disturbance of trade and from
the troubles we have experienced in the North-West during
the past year. My chief alterations will be changes from
ad valorem to specific duties where I find it practicable or
advisable to do so. There has been during the past two
years a large decline in the price of foreign goods as well
as in the price of home productions ; but in consequence of
depression in other countries — greater depression, I must
say, than exists in our own country — there has been a con-
siderable slaughter of goods in other countries, and a great
many difficulties have arisen in the Custom house
in arriving at the proper values for entry. With
speciiic duties that difficulty would be largely obviated ;
and I have in several cases to propose to the House
changes in that direction, in order to overcome that

Ift

diffioalty and to lessen the induoemcnt to parties abroad
to send Id goods with false invoices. Saoh change as I
propose to make other than this will bo upon articles which
I think may fai~ly be considered as luxuries, but they
will not affect the workingmen, and, therefore, will not
give hon. gentlemen opposite any great inducement to
increase their cry that we are grinding the poor man
down by the burdens of our taxation. I may then, Sir,
read to the House the changes that I propose to ask the
House to make ; and when we are in committee, that will,
perhaps, be the better time to give the detailed information
respecting the different items :

Almonds, shelled, a specific duty of S cents per lb.

Almonds, not shelled, and nuts of all kinds not elsewhere specified, a
specific datj of 3 cents per lb.

Baking powder, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb.

Boxes, oases and writing desks, fancy and ornamental, and fancy
manufactures of bone, shell, horn and ivory, also dolls and toys of all
kinds and materials ; ornaments of alabaster, spar, terra cotta or com-
position, statuettes, beads and bead ornaments, 30 per cent, ad valorem.

These articles which I have enumerated may be called
laxurieft, and yet they stood on our tariff at a lower per-
centage than many other articles that entered into more
general use, and I ask the House to increase the duty on
this description of goods. ' *

Bolts, nuts, washers and rirets of iron or steel, a specific duty of 1
cent, per lb. and 16 per cent, ai valorem.
Blueing— Lauidry blueing of all kinds, 25 per cent, ai valorem.
Older, a specific duty of 10 cents per Imperial gallon.

This was rated formerly at 20 per cent,, which amounted
to about 3 cents per gallon.

Ooidage— Manilla and sisal cordage of all kinds, a specific duty of 1}
-ceuia per lb. and 10 per cent, ad valorem,

Dessicated cocoanut, sweeteaei or not, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb.

Feathers, ostrich and vulture, undressed, 20 per cent, ad valorem.

Feathers, ostrich and vulture, dressed, 30 per cent, ad valorem.

Fruit, dried, viz. : Raisins, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb., and 10
per cent, ad valorem.

Fruit, dried, viz. ; Currants, dates, figs, prunes, and all other dried
fruits not elsewhere specified, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb.

Fruit, green, tIz. : Blaokberrlei, gooieberriea, raipberries, and itraw-
berrief, a specific daty of 4 ceots per lb , the weight of the package to
be iDcladed in the wei;iht for dutj.

Peaches, a specific datj of 1 cent per lb , the weight ot the package
to be included in the weight for dutj.

Gimpi, cords, braids, ribbons and bindings, when imported hj hA\
manufacturers for use in their factories, 15 per cent, ai valorem.

Oas, water and soil pipes of cast iron, 30 per cent, ad valorem.

QloTes and mitts of all kinds, 80 per cent, ai valorem.

Hair cloth of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem.

Harness and saddlery of every description and parts of the same, 30
per cent, ad valorem.

Laces, braids, fringes, embroideries, cords, tassels and bracelets, also
bndds, chains or ords of hair, 30 per cent, ad valorem.

Lead pipe and lead shot, a specific duty of 1^ cents per lb.

Oleomargarine, butterine or other substitute for butter, a specific duty
of 10 cents per lb.

We propoBO also to put an Excise daty of 8 cents per lb. upon
that article manufactured in Canada.

Printed or dyed cotton fabrics not elsewhere specified, 27} per cent.
ad valorem.

Spirits and strong waters, not having been sweetened or mixed with
any article so that the degree of strength thereof cannot be ascertained
by Syke's hydrometer, for every Imperial gallon of the strength of proof
of such hydrometer, and so in proportion for any greater or less strength
than the strength of proof, and for every greater or less quantity than
a gallon, viz. : Qeneva gin, rum, whiskey, alcohol or spirits of wine and
unenumerated, unmixed and not sweetened spirits by whatever name
called, a specific duty of $1.7S per Imperial gallon.

Old Tom gin, a specifi: duty of $1.90 per Imperial gallon.

This was left at $1.32^ cents last year. *

Spirits and strong waters, mixed with aay ingredients, and
although thereby coming nnder the denomination of propH-^tary medi-
cines, tinctures, essences, extracts or any other denomination, including
medicinal elixirs and fluid extracts. Whether in bulk or bottle, not else-
where specified, shall be nevertheless deemed to be spirits or strong
waters, and subject to duty as such, a specific duty of $2 per Imparial
gallon and 30 per cent, ad valorem.

So iar as liquors are concerned the increase has been upon
Old Tom, otherwise explanatory of the resolutions of last
year and the year before.

Cologne water and perfumed spirits in bottles or flasks, not weighing
more than 4 ounces each, 60 per cent, ad valorem.

).t

Cologne water and perfamed tpirita, in bottlei, flMki or other pack-
ages, weighing more than 4 ounces ea6h, a specific dntj of $2 per
Imperial gallon, and 40 per cent, ai valorem.

Tubing, wrought iron, plain, 2 inches in diameter or under, coupled
and threaded or not, SO per cent, ai valorem.

Wire, iron or steel, galvanized or not, 16 guage and coarser, 20 per
cent, ad valorem.

Whips of all kinds, BO per cent, ad valorem.

Wire fencing, buckthorn, strip and other similar fencing of iron or
steel, a specific duty of 1} cents per lb.

Yeast cakes and compressed yeast, in packages or balk of 1 lb. and over,
a specific duty of 6 cents per lb.

Yeast cakes, in packages of less than 1 lb., a specific duty of 8 cents,
per lb.

Portland and Roman cements to be classed with all other cement, at
specific rates as now provided. ,

Now, I come to the question of sngar. Those who have
studied the returns of past years will see that the revenue
from sugar has been gradually deolining. We did not
impose so large a daty as was imposed in 1877-78. The
revenue derived from sugar, under the tari£Pof 1877-78, was
$2.39 per 100 lbs. Under the new tariff the revenue, in
1881, was $1.80. In 1B82, the value of sugar had slightly
declined, and the ad valorem duty gave a less return,
namely, $1.69 ; in 1883, it was $1.61 ; in 1884, $1.50 ; and in
1885, $1.27 per 100 lbs. We propose to ask the House
first to change the mode of testing the value of sugar.
There has been a good deal of discussion upon this question
with refiners of the different Provinees, some of whom have
made complaiots that favor has been shown to
refiners in other Provinces which were not shown
to themselves. I do not find that there has been
any great ground for this complaint. I think that
the ofSioers of Customs have discharged their duty very
faithfully, and when a comparison of the returns is made, it
is seen that there is very little, an almost imperceptible
difference, in the returns from the various refineries through-
out the country. In the United States, all sugars are sold
by the polariscope-test, the refiners of this country test their

sugars, prioe them, and sell them by the polarisoope test ;
and 1 think, from the satisfaotion this has given abroad and
from the contentions that arise under the color test, it
is advisable to ask the House to adopt the polarisoope test,
and to name a specific duty for all refining sugars, which
will be an average of the rates received between 1836 and
1881. What, then, I propose, is to ask the House to impose
these duties :

Oa sagar, melaio, concentrated melado, eoneentrated cane jaice,
concentrated molasses, concentrated beet-root Juice and concrete, wheo
imported direct from tlie country of growth and production, for refining
purposes only, not over No. 13 Dutch standard in color, and not testing
over seventy degrees by the polarisoope, a specific duty of 1 cent per
lb., and for every additional degree or fraction of a degree shown by
polarisoope test 3^ cents per 100 lbs. additional.

I may explain that the American tariff imposes a duty of
$1.40 per 100 lbs. for the test of eeventy-five degrees, and
charges 4 cents for every degree above seventy five.
What we have taken is a little over three-fourths of the
American tariff, reducing everything about the same pro-
portion, 60 as to charge a trifle over three-fourths of the
American duty.

On sugar not for refining purposes, not over No. 13 Dutch standard
in color, when imported direct from the country of growth and produc-
tion, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 30 per cent, ad valorem on the
value thereof free-on-board at the last port of shipment.

On all sugars above No. 13 Dutch standard 'in color, and on refined
sugar of all kinds, grades or standards, 1} cents per lb., and 36 per cent.
ad valorem on the value thereof free-on-board at the last port of shipment.

On all sugars, not imported direct, without transhipment from coun-
try of growth and production, there shall be levied and collected an
additional duty of 7^ per cent, of the whole duty so otherwif^e payable
thereon.

That is, in the case of indirect shipments, the duty shall
first be ascertained under the rates named, and then 7^ per
cent, of the duty shall be added for that. We have always
had in our tariff that distinction between direct and indi-
rect shipments.

•*«i.

■^

Provided that whon anj cargo of sa^ar for refiaing putpoMi ii found
to grade, to the extent of not orerlS percent, of the whole abore
No. 13, Dutch standard in color, the whole of laid cargo may be
admitted to entry by polariicope test, as abore provided for refiaing
pnrposei only.

Syrups, cane juice, refined syrup, sugar house syrup or sugar house
molasses, syrup of sugar, syrup of molasses or sorghum, whether im-
ported direct or cot, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 30 per cent, ad
f,alor«m.

HolassesB, other, when imported direct, without traaebipment, and from
the country of growth and production, 15 per cent, ad valorem.

Holassess. when not so imported, 20 per cent, ad valorem.

The value upon which the acfva/ctot duty shall be levied and coI«
lected upon all the above named eyrup? and molasses ahall be the value
thereof free-on- board at the last port of shipment.

Provided that molassess, when imported for or received into any re-
fiuery or sugar factory, or to be used for any other purpose than actual
'Consumption, shall be subject to, and there shall be levied and collected
thereon, an additional duty of S cents per Imperial gallon.

Provided that the change in the rates of duty on sugars and molasses
shall apply only to importations arriving in O«nadaooand after the 31st
day of March, instant, and not to such articles warehoused prior to that
date.

Sugar candy, brown or white, and confectionery, a specific duty of 1|
cents per pound and 3S per cent, ad valorem.

Then, T propose to amend eohedale " B," the list of goods
which are entitled to be entered free of daty, by substitut-
ing the following provisions for the following items : —

Articles for the personal use of consuls general' who are natives or
citizens of the country they repreee at and who are not engagad in any
other business or profession.

It has been found that a great many consuls have been
■appointed, and that several of them are engaged in other
business and claim to have articles for their use entered
free of duty. This is to explain the provision, and to con-
fine it to consuls general, who are natives or citizens of the
country they represent, and not engaged in any business.

Borax, in lump ; grease, the refuse of animal fat ; iron and steel, old
and scrap, bni nothing shall be deemed scrap iron or steel, except waste
or refuse iron or steel that has been in actual use, and fit only to be
re-manufactured ; sumac, crude. ,

Then we strike out from the free list, iron Rand or globalea
and dry patty for polishing granite. These are articles that
are being manafactured now in oar own coantry.

Phflosophical instrumeats and apparatus, including globes, &c.
These have been on the free list for a great many
years, and all the sohools have been compelled to go
abroad for such articles, and it has been found that many of
the globes and maps imported have been specially designed
for the country in which they are manufactured, and that
special prominence is given to that country upon them. For
a year or two, in Toronto, and I think in Montreal also,
there Lave been gentlemen engaged in the manufacture of
globes and philosophical instruments for schools, and, with
the sanction of the superintendents of schools in Ontario —
at least some of them from whrtm I havo heard— it is proposed
to encourage the manufacture, so that there may be a supply
of those instruments within reasonable reach, instead of the
trouble of sending abroad for them being necessary. Then,
it 16 proposed to amend schedule " D " relating to prohi-
bited articles, by striking out the item relating to copy-
right works, and substituting the following in l:?n
thereof, namely :— '

Reprints of OanadJan copyright works, and reprints of British copy-
right works which Lave been also copyrighted in Canada.

There is another resolution declaring that it is expedi-
ent to provide for an Excise duty of eight cents a
pound on oleomargarine, butterine, or other substitute
for butter, manufactured in Canada. These, so far, are the
propositions which we hiive tonight to submit to the House.
Now, assuming that these are assented to by the House, I
think that we may reasonably expect that the revenue during
the year 1886-87 will be as follows : I may say, first, that even
with the fall benefit of any changes that I have proposed here,
I am not counting upon any very large 1 norease to the Castoms
revenue of the country during 1886-87. We have had, or

we are to Lave, the Canadian Paoifio Bail way opened
through to British Colambia. Hon. gentlemen know by the
returns that theamoantof duties collected in British Columbia
and Manitoba has been out of proportion to the ordinary
collections in other parts of the country of similar population,
because they have been shut out from connection w!th the
manufiactnrers of the country, and I believe that, with the
opening of the road, a great deal of the trade which
hitherto went from British Columbia to the United States
and from Manitoba also to the United States will be given
to our own manufacturers in the Dominion. Therefore, I
do not anticipate so largo a revenue from those two Pro-
vinces as ^e have had in the past. My estimate then for
the year 1886-87 will be :— From Customs, $20,200,000;
from Excise, 07,000,000 ; from post office, railways, inter-
est and miscellaneous services, $7,300,000 ; making a total
of $34,500,000 ; against which I have shown an estimated
expenditure of $33,124,650, leaving, as the estimates now
stand, a surplus of $1,375,450. This, of course, when my
hon.friend the Minister of Public Works has had his Bay,80 far
as he can have it, will probably be reduced, still I hope that
the public service will not call for a very large additional
e:?penditur6 this year, and that the amount of the anti-
cipated surplus for 1886-87 will not be very largely reduced
by Supplementary Estimates. It may be that the hon.
gentleman who will follow me will think I have over-
estiL'^ated this matter, and that I am over-sanguine as to
the amount that I shall receive during the coming year of
1886-87. I suppose that, if he speaks by the experience of
the past, he will say I am. He might tell u) that he
entered upon his administration full of hope, as I
am \ that he had great expectations of revenue, and that,
when he proposed to increase the duties by three millions
of dollars, there was no doubt in his mind that he would

receive that addition to his revenue ; but we know
4i

ilr-.

the result ; we know that time, and tue policy
that he was pnr^uiDg, frustrated his hopes and
wrought his political ruin for that period. I know
that this may, perhaps, be the impression on his mind
now, and he may, perhaps, bring us the proof from the
records that all this occurred, but I believe that the policy
this Government is pursuing will lead to better results than
the policy which the hon. gentleman and his party pursued
from 1874 to 1878. It is true that we have not had in the
past year or two that commercial activity that we had in
1881 and 1882, but there hci been great caution on the
part of our merchants, in view of the great reduction
which has been going on in the prices of various goods
throughout the world ; and there has been a very
large reduction, more especially in free trade coun-
tries, where the depression was most strong. I am
«ure, Mr. Speaker, that if we compare the position of
the Dominica of Canada in its trade with the condition of
any other country, more particularly free trade countries,
we will find that the depression has not affected us so
seriously as it has some of those other countries. We have
every indication from the country at large that there is
sound commercial life, and that there is ability to enlarge
commercial operations in the country, and I rely upon that.
The revenue to be derived from a people, depends
a good deal upon the ability of the people to purchase
goo^s, and upon their inclination to do eo. I know, Mr.
Speaker, that the inclination generally exists, and
the ability to do eo wo may enquire into. Com-
mencing with the agricultural class, I think wo
have every reason to believe that tLe farmers
of this country are in a better position to-day than they
have been for years— at all events, in a very much better
condition than they were during^ iiud period from 1874 to
1878. We live beside the greatest agricultural people in

U K

the world, perhaps, and they are a people who, notwith-
standing that thej have a large surplas to export, will per-
mit no article of agrioultaral produce to enter their coun-
try free. That was the condition of things from 18*74 to
1878, and yet while fhat condition of things existed, the
policy that was pursued by the GoverLment of this country
was to admit all agricaltural produce free. Mr. Speaker, I
do not wonder that this had a depressing effect upon the
farmers of thid country, and I think, Sir, that effeci upon
the agricultural community was evinced in the fact that
80 large a quantity of American farm produce oame into
this country free, and was consumed by our people^
instead of being supplied by our own farmers. Sir, we
have changed that policy. We have said to Canadian farm-
ers, that just such measure as the American Government
has been meting out and docs mete out to you, we will
mete out to the American farmer. We will endeavor to
shut out the large importation that has been going on of
American farm produce to feed the people of this Dominion,
who have so much fertile soil and so many willing hands to
cultivate that soil and to produce all that is required for the
sustenance of their own people. But we said more. We said
to the Canadian farmer : We will inaugurate such a trade
policy as will give employment to a large number of con-
sumers whom you will have to feed and support from your
farms, and wo will increase your markets not only by
stopping foreign produce, but by multiplying the
number of consumers of your own farm produce.
Under this changed policy the condition of the
farmer seems to have rapidly improved. The importa-
tion of American agricultural farm produce has diminished,
although our home consumption has increased largely.
This matter has been discussed by the organ of the third
party, in this house, and an attempt has been made to show
that the National Policy has been a failure, because there is

still a considerable importation of breadstuffs into the
coantry. Weil, Mr. Speaker, it is true there has been some
considerable importation, bat my position is this : that under
oar National Policy we have largely red need the importa*
tion of American breadstaffs, and we have also stimulated
the Canadian farmer to greater activity ; that he has
sapplied what has fallen short in importation, and he
has largely increased hh exports abroad. The increased
activity which has been given to all branches of industry
seems to have affected as well the farming popala«
tion, and they are able to supply the three or four million
dollars worth of American farm produce that used to come
in, and we have largely increased our exports abroad.
Now, Mr. Speaker, in 1875 there was entered $12,389,900
worth of American breadstaffs; in 18*76 there was imported
$11,114,000 worth; in 1877, $13,858,000 worth; in 1878,
$13,452,000 worth, a total in those four years of $50,813,900
worth. We exported $24,000,000 odd, leaving, as consumed
by the people of this country, $26,707,126 worth, or
$6,676,000 worth per year. Now, Sir, under the present
policy, without giving the sum for each year, the total
imports for six years, beginning with 1880, have been
$18,784,000, or $3,130,600 a year, as against $6,676,000
before the National Policy was inaugurated. That is, we
have imported per year less than one-half as much as was
imported per year before the adoption of the National
Policy. I may state that the article of Indian corn was
mentioned by the organ of the party, and it was shown that
it has been taxed to the large amount of *J^ cents per
bushel. Well, Mr. Speaker, it is true that under
this policy we did tax Indian corn 7} cents a bushel ;
but a large portion of the imports of Indian corn was for
the purpose of being distilled into whiskey. In 1880 there
were 739,000 bushels imported; 1881, 754,000 bushels and
so on; in the six years there were ,5,368,123 bushels

•#

imported, paying 7| cents per bushel duty, all] for the
purpose of being distilled into whiskey and not for the
purpose of being consumed as breadstaffs. Bat I have
shown by statistics that we have shut out by our policy
more than $3,000,000 worth a year of breadstuffd coming
in from the United States, and I will make a comparison
showing the exports of farm produce. In 18*75 we shipped
agricultural exports, including breadstuffs and products of
animals, to the value of over $29,958,000 ; 1876, $ 10,000,000 ;
1877, $28,000,000; 1878, $32,000,000; 1879,|$33,000,000 ;
or a total of $165,680,000 in those years. Since the intro*
duction of the National Policy the exports have been aa
follows:— 1881, $42,000,000; 1882, $51,000,000; 1883,
$13,000,000; 1884, $35,000,000; 1885, $39,000,000—
$212,000,000 in all. From this sum deduct $165,000,000
exports in the same number of years without the National
Policy, and yon have left an increased expotw of $46,858,833
or $9,371,70*6 a year. Our farmers have exported annually,
on an average, upwards of $9,000,000 in excess of what they
did before, and they have supplied the home market to the
value of $3,600,000 of American produce shut out, making
over $13,000,000 more than was exported under the policy of
hon. gentlemen opposite.

Mr. CHARLTON. Where is the home market ?

Mr. McLELAN. Why, I have just explained to the hon.
gentleman, as well as 1 could, that we have given the home
market to Canadian farmers to the extent of $3,515,000 a
year ; and that is supposing there had been no increase of
population during that period. Bat it will not be pretended
that there has not been more supplied with the increase of
population in the manufacturing districts since 1881, and
that the home market has not been larger than it was
before, the $3,545,000 in addition. A word more in regard
to the home market. In the first six months of this year,
the importation of farm produce and provisions for the use

of the people has declioed over $3,000,000 as compared
with the first bix months of last year. So the House wilt
see that year by year oar farmers have been steadily taking
possession of the home' market as well as increasing their
exports abroad, and the encouragement afforded them has-
given them greater activity and life, and they do not now
" leave the oxen idle in the stall aod the plowshare rnsting
in the field." The hon. gentleman opposite does not seem to
be quite satisiied that our farmers have been benefited by
the operation of our policy ; and when an hon. gentleman,
who was elected for his intelligence as a reprcEentative of
the people, claims not to see in what way the farmers have
been benefited, I thiok there may possibly be farmers who-
have not yet seen clearly in what way they have been
benefited. • ' '
Some hon. MBMBERS. Hear, hear. v?^ ^

Mr. M0LBLA.N. Some hon. members say " hear, hear."^
I suppose you coald put it more clearly to the farmers. The
hon. gentleman knows Toronto, a city with a population of
100,000. Suppose you could draw a cordon of American-
Custom house officers round that city and say to the farmers-
of Ontario: Yoa shall not take in a pound of batter or
any agricultural produce to feed that population of 100,000^
but they shall be fed entirely by American farmers. If yon
could do that in practice it would bring the matter home to
Ontario farmers, aud I think the hon. 'gentleman himself
would not ask how they were at present benefited, and the
farmers would see how they had lost by such a transaction,.
by being shut out from supplying the city. Suppose hon.
gentlemen opposite should come into power and should bring
their policy into operation, and all the men who are now
employed in manufactures, and who were not employed in
1878 under their policy, by which great importations of
slaaghtered goods were sent in from the United States, had
to shut up and go to the United States. My predecessor

#'■

brought down last year a statoment showing that by statis*
tics there had been established, under the National Policy,
factories giving employment to 34,000 hands. The proba>
bilitius are that under such a change of policy as I have
indicated almost the whole of those people would be driven
out of the country into the United States to manufacture
the goods that might bo wanted by the pepolo who would be
left behind. '" ^ ' *

Mr. LANDEEK.IN. More than that number have been
driven out.

' Mr. MoLELAN. The hon. gentleman says tha more
than that number have been driven out. But he Wi aid not

object to driving out 34,000 more,

Mr. LANDBRKIN. I would. '''

Mr. M0LELA.N — and all the people connected with
them. Let me carry the supposition farther. Suppose
that after those people had been in the United States for a
time manufacturing for the Canadian people, being fed by
American farmers and paying tribute to the American
Government, they should say : The products of our toil go
over to Canada; we are scattered in different towns;
suppose we unite, cross the line and establish ourselves at
one centi al point, and take over the men who build our
homes, and our lawyers, doctors, clergy, wives and
children and servants, and make a population of over
100,000 and locate at some place where not a pound of
butter or an article from a Canadian farmer will come,
but American farmers will have free entry by market
waggon and railway to come and go ' nd supply us
with everything we need, and the Canadian farmer shall
have no intercourse with us. Then the hon. gentleman
himself and all the Canadian farmers would see the
effect of that operation in practice, and I think they would
say : It is better that we should have a policy that will
keep those mechanics and their families here and enable

i i

oar own farmers to supply them with their farm
prodaotSi and thus fiud a market for them at home.
Mr. Speaker, I have referred, in reply to the hon. gentle-
man, to the increase in the number of wage-earners and to
the faot that Sir Leonard Tilley had statistics prepared show-
ing the increase in the number of artisans employed in the
various factories of this country from 1878 up to the com-
mencement of 1881. I have not had the opportunity of con-
tinuing that operation, but in our trade returns there is suf-
fioient evidence to show that the increase in the number of
wage-earners and artisans employed has been enormous
from 1878 up to the present time. We have imported more
than $10,000,000 worth of machinery since 1878. That
machinery was not imported to stand idle. That machinery
is now giving employment to large numbers of people in vari-
ous portions of the country. We have imported large quan-
tities of the raw materials to which I have already referred
—cotton, wool, hides, pig-iron, and everything that enters in
the manufacture of goods, and all these things prove conclu-
sively to me that there is an increased number of people
employed, an increased number of wage-earners who are
receiving good wages, and who will be able to purchase
goods and contribute to the revenues of the country during
the year. In everything there is evidence of increased ac-
tivity. I read to the House to-night the increase in the post
office service. Hon. gentlemen opposite claimed that we
would kill out the shipping trade of the country, but there
has been a steady increase in the coasting and foreign trade
of this country ever since this policy was introduced, all
tending to show that the country is progressing favorably,

Mr. MITCHELL. Sailing vessels ?

Mr. McLELA.N. I will read the figures to the hon. gen-
tleman. The coasting trade in 1881-86 was 16,914,122 tons
the foreign trade in ships was 7,644,615 tons.

Mr. MITCHELL. Sailing vessels ?

Mr. M0LELA.N. Sailing vessels and steamers.

Mr. MITCHELL. I am asking aboat sailing vessels.

Mr. MoLBLAN. I have not separated them. I have not
learned yet that a steamer oannot carry goods and passen-
gers. I think that the steamerB carry jnst as many goods
in proportion to their spare tonnage as sailing vessels and
deliver them quicker, and I was taking them both together.
The foreign tonnage was 7,644,615. . ,

Mr. MITCHELL. Foreign tonnage ?

Mr. MoLELAN. The coasting and foreign trade to-
gether was 23,589,000 tons. In 1878-'79 the coasting trade
was 12,066,683 tons ; the foreign trade 6,000,000 tonp, or a
total of over 18,000,000 tons. There is an increase in the
six years of 6,433,804 tons or an average of 905,634 tons a
year. '/ '' ■ ' ''■■ '"''' ■ ■^-■■k, ■■■.< ;,

Mr. MITCHELL. Foreign tonnage, but not Canadian;
that is the point.

Mr. MoLBLAN. I am not speaking of whether we
owned more or less tonnage

Mr. MITCHELL. Ah 1 That is what I want to know.

Mr. MoLELAN. I am speaking of this point : that tbe
people of this country, the trade of this country and the
wants of this country, employed a larger tonnage by
6,433,804 tons than they did in 1873.

Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, but owned by foreigners ;, there
is the point.

An hon. MEMBER. It makes no difference.

Mr. MITCHELL. It makes a great deal of difference.

Mr. MoLELAN. I am not aware that foreigners own a
very large proportion of the shipping that Is engaged In
the coasting trade of this country. I am not aware of it, and
if the hon. gentleman will show It to mo, I will accept the

figures he will give, bot it does not alter the position I have
taken, that the trade of the coantry requires Si,433,80:l tons,
and employs that tonnage more than it did in 1878*'79.
Then if we come down to railways we find that in
IB*J9-*J9 wd had 6,664 miles of railways in operation ; their
train mileage was 19,000,000 ; the total passengers carried,
6,444,000 ; the number of tons of freight carried, 7,833,000.
Now, Sir, in 1886, wo have 10,149 miles of railway in opera*
tion ; we have a total train mileage of 30,623,000 ; the total
number of passengers carried, 9,672,59?, and the total num-
ber of tons of freight carried, 14,679,949 ; it an increase in
all these items of over 50 percent., all tending to show that
there is an increased trade, an increased activity in business
throughout the country. Therefore, Sir, I think thatlum
right in the position I take, that the business of the country
is more active and better. Then we have the fact as shown
by our bank returns that we have $16,000,000 more of
bank and Dominion notes in circulation than there were
in 1878; that the deposits in the chartered banks in 1885
were $106,000,000; in 1878, $72,000,000; or an increase
of $34,000,000. We have the faot that the savings
binks deposits have increased from $8,497,000 to $35,280,000
up to last night, an increase in deposits of $26,783,000»
But, Mr. Speaker, we have an increased number of men
engaged in business, and we have also an increased number
engaged in business without failing as they did in 1878.
The number of traders, in 1885, was 70,043, with failures
amounting to $8,743,000. In 1878 we had 56,347 traders,
with failures amounting to $26,875,000. There'is an increase
of 13,696 in the number of people engaged in trade through*
out the country, and there is a decrease of $18,132,000 in
the amount of the failures, and I take these facts as the best
indication of the condition of the country, that larger
numbers are engaged in trade, and engaged without loss to*
themselves and to the country at large. The returns for

jr-

the first period of this year show still more favorably in
respect to the failures. The return, as given for
the firrtt six weeks of 18 j6, was 192 failures, as against
235 in the same period of 1885^. and 287 in 1881;
so that, comparing with 1878, the decrease is very great in
the number, and the decrease in the amount of liabilities is
something enormous. I was very deeply impressed with
the explanation which the hon. member for Bothwell (Sfr.
Mills) gave a year or two ago, of the causes of failures
from 1874 to 1878. He put the whole case in a nutshell.
He said that " the merchants failed for want of customers ; "
and I suppose there were no customers because there was
no employment for the people, and no money among the
people to enable them to purchase the merchants' goods.
Therefore the merchant stood idle at his counter, waiting
in vain for customers that did not come— that could not
come — because they had no money and no employment;
and therefore ruin and bankruptcy fell upon the merchant,
and the official assignee walked the land like a pesti-
lence at noonday. Sir, I start from one point — idleness of
the people, want of employment, no factories in operation,
and consequently no customers for the merchant — and there
follow a bankrupt merchant and an empty treasury. I
start from the other point — employment for the people,
money for the people, money taken by the people to the mer-
chant, the merchant busy, and a full treasury. You start from
one point, and you reach the one conclusion absolutely ; yon
start from the other point, and you roach the other conclu-
«ion just as certainly. When you have employment for the
people, you have not only a busy merchant and a full trea-
eury, but you have above all a contented and happy people.
Daniel Webster, the great American statesman, speaking
upon this point, after he had beer converted to protective
views, said :

"The interesta of every laboring commuaity require direraitj of
oocupation, parauits and objects of iadustrj. The more that diversity

iB multiplied or extended, the better. To divenify emplojmeat ii to
enhance wages. And, Sir, take this grr at truth, place it on the title
page of every book of political economy intended for me, put it on every
/armer'i almanac ; let it be the headmg of every colaino in every
mechanic's magazine. Proclaim it everywhere, and make it a proverb,
that where there is work far the hands of men, there will be work for
their teeth. Where there is employment there will be bread. It is a
great blessio ; to the poor to have cheap food ; bnt greater than that,
prior to that, and of still higher value, is the blessing of being able to
bay food by honest and respectable employment. Employment feeds,
clothes and instructs ; employment gives strength, sobriety and morals.
Constant employment and well paid labor produce, in a country like
oura, general prosp3rity, content and cheerfulness. Thus hsppy have
-we Been the country, thus happy may we long continue to see it."

The hon. member for South Httron (Sir Ri'^hard Cartwright),
Bome time during this Session, told us that the National
Policy had beer a failure, ueoause ther«^ had boon large
importations in ezcebs of the exports ; and he gave figures
by which he made it appear tbn^ ther ' hau heow an ezoess
of $101,762,000 worth of imports over exports. Now, Sir,
let me refer to this for a moment. "We were in vory
peculiar circumstances. Manitoba, the North-West and Bri-
tish Columbia imported largely of foreign goods, having no
facilities for procuring goods of domestic manufacture. If
the hon. gentleman will compare the imports into Manitoba,
tbr North-Westand British Columbia from 1874 to 1879 with
the imports from 1880 to 1835, he will find that they im-
ported in the latter period $46,603,000 worth of foreign
goods. If he will take that froti our excess of imports over
exports for the ft'ime period, he will find that it leave5!i but
$56,159,000. or $9,359,833 a year. He will also find that
the imports into thos3 districts from 1874 to 1879 were
only $18,000,000, which deducted from the excess of im-
ports over exports, will leave $86,000,000; or In that
period there was an excess of imports over exports, exdu-
Bive of Manitoba, the North-West and British Columbia of
$17,242,000 ayear, while from 1880 to 1885 there was only an
ezoess of $9,359,000 a year. But the hon. gentleman will also

fiDd, on examination of the trade and revenue retarns, that a
large proportion of the ezoess of imports over exports in
the older Provinces was raw material for mannfaotare, or
articles that should come in free. For instance, there was an
iuorease in 1885 over 1878 in hides and horns of 95t)3,000,
in cotton and wool of $1,500,000, in settlers' effects of
$746,000, in coin and ballion of $2,260,000,and so on, making
an excess of imports over exports in those articles, which are
free, of $8,630,000 ; so that the whole excess of imports over
exports in the older Provinces is disposed of in that way.
Mr. Speaker, I have detained the House at greater length
than I intended, or should have done, and I mast apologise
for it. But an hon. gentleman opposite has sa?d that we
have driven more than 40,000 people out of the country ; and
I suppose we shall hear the same thing from the hon. gentle-
man who is about to address the Hoase on the opposite side.
It is true. Sir, we have not had in the past that great increase
of numbers that they have had in the United States.
In the United States, long previous to the taking of the
last census, they had a policy of protection to home indus-
try. They had a policy of giving their people employment
and high wages, a policy which drew immigrants to the
United States from all parts of the world. They had also
opened for settlement large tracts of prairie country, and
the two policies combined helped to increase the popu-
lation of the United States at a greater rate than the
increase in the Dominion. But, Sir, if wo take the Ameri-
can census of 1880 and the Canadian census of 1881, and if
we select a number of the older States, which offer a fair
ground for comparison with the Dominion of Canada, we
will find we have held our own very well. Of course,
if you go into the newer States, with attractions of
new territory and prairie soil, you will find a much
larger percentage of increase; but what I want is to
maKe a comparison with the older States. Conneoti-

cat, which had 537,000 inhabitants in 1871, had 622,633 in
IdSl. Connectioat, Maine, Massaohusetts, New Hampshire,
Vt)rmo it, Dakota— I pnt in Dakota as a set-off to Manitoba
-^comparing those States with Prince Edward Island, Nova
Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba and
British Columbia, I find that the American States
increased 16*06 arid the Dominion of Canada increased
1*7*03 per cent, in population, according to the last
census: so that when we make a proper comparison
between the Dominion and the older and more settled por-
tions of the United States we find we have more than held

•

oar own. Now, the complaint has beec made that the
National Policy has not done its duty, because times have
not been so brisk as they were in 1862-83. But, as I said
before, if we compare the position of trade in Canada with
the position of other countries—, the United States, and
Great Britain, for instance — we will find that our position
is better than theirs, and we can gather from this, that but
for the National Policy ruin and bankruptcy would have
been upon us. It is in times when there is great
depression in surrounding countries, when there are
over*production and slaughter in prices of goods in
those countries, that we find the protective policy
desirable and advantageous, and it has proved itself here
highly beneficial in protecting us from the onslaughts which
would have been made upon us by foreign manufacturers. I
proposed to deal with this question more fully, but I have
occupied so large a share of the public time that
I cannot go into it as fully as I would wish. I
want, however, to give one instance to show how the
National Policy is affeciiug the wage-earner in this
country at present. All tbat is required for the pro-
daotion of cheap goods in this country, is that there
shall be a market for those goods, and the larger the
market the cheaper they will be. Our people are as active
and as intelligent as any others, and when they are forced

abroad, as they bave been, they make as good artisans, with
^a little experience and training, as are to be found in the
world. All that they require to be fit to manafaotnre every-
thing required in this country, and to manufacture as
cheaply as is manufactured in the United States or
elsewhere, is that they shall have some training, and this
they will obtain by our furnishing them with a market for
their goods. Now, the manufacturer or capitalist seeks
a fair return for his investment ; he looks into the chances
existing for placing the products of his investment ; and
the smaller the output he has, the larger percentage he
must put upon that output in order to meet the interest
upon his capital and the depreciation of his plant. There
is a very familiar illustration of this. Tou take a
blast furnace which requires $30,000 to meet the in-
terest upon the capital invested in it and the depre-
ciation of the plant. If the output of that fprnace be
15,000 tons of pig-iron, of course there must be $2 a ton put
upon the iron, in order to pay the interest and the deprecia-
tion of the plant. If yon increase the output to 20,000 tons,
then it only requires $1.50 per ton to pay these charges ; if
you increase it to 30,000 tons, you only want $1 a ton upon
it, to pay a dividend and you can sell the pig-iron $ 1 u ton
cheaper. If you run the output up to 60,000 tons, all you
want is 50 cents a ton, and you have $30,000 raised, and the
pig-iron is $1.50 cheaper than it would be with only 15,000
tons of output The same principle holds good in all the
manufactures in which we are engaged. The percentage
which must be put upon every yard of cloth which comes
from the loom depends upon the output, in order to meet the
interest upon the capital and the depreciation of the plant.
You must have one of two things, Tou must either have a
large market and a large output or you must have a low rate
of wages, and that means a low scale of living and a small
expenditure fot the benefit of the farmer. Moreover,

you cannot for any considerable length of time, keep
men employed at a lovr rate of wages, while across the
border, in the Upited States, there are larger wages paid and
attractions offered to draw them to that country.
The intention of the National Policy is that we shall give a
large market to oar own mannfactarers. We have not so
large a market of course as they have in the United States,^
but we can give a proportionate market, one-tenth or one-
twelfth in proportion to the population of the other side.
David Wells, the American apostle of free trade, has been
often quoted in this House, and he says :

'* Washes are labor's share of prodnct, and in every healthy business
are ultimately paid out of product. No employer of labor can continue
for any great length of time to pay high wages unless his product i»
large. If it is not, and he attempts, it is only a question of time when
his affairs will be wound up by the sheriff. On the other hand if a high
rate of wages is permanently paid in aay industry and in any country it
is in itself proof positive tbiit the proluct of labor is large, that the
laborer is entitled to a generous share of it, and that the employer can
afford to give it him."

That is what we have been striving to do in this country,
and it is what we are accomplishiner, when we are giving
a larger market to our own manufacturers, and we have
the result that a larger, a more generous wage is being
paid to the employes than previous to the introduction of
this policy. I have not gathered any statistics, except from
one company, the Canada Cotton Manufacturing Company,
of Cornwall, and I have a comparison in regard to that
company between 1878 and 1886, with which I wish to
trouble the House in order to show the result of the National
Policy in increasing the rate of wages, the n amber of
hands, and not the price of goods.

Mr. MITCHELL. There is a 35 per cent, duty thoagh.

Mr. M0LELA.N. In 18*78, in the six months from July
to December, there were 407 hands employed in that fae.
tory, who received $17,557 in wages ; the dailj amount paid

•%

being 8305, and the average paid to each hand per day 75
cents. Times seemed to grow worse, and in the throe
months from October to December the amount paid to each
hand ran down to 72 cents; and in the month of December
it ran down to 69 cents. Now I come to 1885, ander the
operation of the National Policy, and I find that, for
the six months ending December, there were 640 hands
employed, receiving $91,144 in wages ; the daily anooaDt
paid being 9531, or an average per day of 91 cents to each
hand, against 75 cents in 1878. For the three months from
October to December, there were 670 hands employed — the
number increases as w^d go on — and the average amount paid
was 9 J cents. In the last month of the year, 672 hands
were employed, and the average amount paid to each was
90 cents. For the six months, the percentage of hands be-
tween 1878 and 1885 shows an increase of 57|- per cent.,
the wages paid an increase of 91f per cent., and the amount
of daily wages to each hand an increase of 21 per cent. In
the three mouths there was an increase of ti6\ percent, in
the number of hands employed, of ! 8^ per cent, in the
amount of wages paid, and of 28 per cent, in the amount
paid to each hand. In the last month of the year, the increase
in average wages was 30 per cent, over that paid in 1878.
So you will see from tbe figures given that the people em-
ployed by this company are receiving a greater wage per
day than they were in 1878. Bat the hon. gentleman Fays
we have a duty of 30 per cent.

Mr. MITCHELL. I said 35 per cent.

Mr. MoLELAN. Well, 35 percent. In 1878, the price of
standard sheeting, weighing 2*85 yards per lb, oast 10
cents, les^ 7^ per cent, discount, or 26-36 cents per lb., with
the average price of cotton 10^ cents. In 1886, that same
sheeting, cost 6^ cents per yard net, or 18*52 ^ents per lb.»
against 2636 cts. per lb. in 1878.
6J

68
Mr. MITCHELL. What did the raw cotton cost ?

Mr. MoLELAN. It cost 10^ rents in 18*78, and in 1886
it oost 10*56 cents per lb. This shows that, though the
hon. gentleman says there is a duty of 36 per cent, consu-
mers are getting their sheetings now for 42^ per cent, less
than they pr id in 1878, while the raw cotton is not quite 3
per cent, cheaper. That is the result of the operations in
that factory, and I am satisfied that it will be shown to be
the result all over this country, that men are being em-
ployed, that they are receiring greater wages, and that
the output of the factories is given at less cost than it
was in 18*78, when people had a narrow market and
could not produce as cheaply as now when they
have a larger market. This is what we are doing
with the National Policy and that is what we intended ; we
are giving employment to the people and at better wages,
by our protection. It is not the cotton. in its raw state that
we want to protect, it is not the ore in the moun-
tain, nor coal in the mine, it is not the clay in the potter's
hands that we want to protect, it is the hands that are
forming and fashioning the clay, it is the men who dig the
ore from the mine, the men who smelt it in the furnace and
the factory, and form and fashion it into the shape we
require to use ; it is the men and women who are manipula-
ting the warp and the woof in the cotton factories, — it is
these whom we want to protect, and it is these whom we
have protected, as I have shown, and for whom we have
secured a higher rate of wages. Therefore, the National
Policy is no failure, from any point of view you look at it.
I' have detained the House too long

Some hon. MEMBERS. Go on.

Mr. MoLELAN. No, I must close, in justice to my hon.
friend opposite. I have gone over the Pablic Accoants, and
I have shown the position of affairs in 1885. I have shown

' '69 '

that, taking the year by itself and apait from the troubles
in the North- West, we stand very well. I think hon. gen-
tlemen will admit that we stand very well, for they never
liked the idea ot having a large surplus. I have shown that
in 1886 we shall not be so very bad, and that there is a jus-
tification for us for putting that extraordinary expendituie
which we have had in connection with the North- West to
capital account, because during the years that we have
administered the Government of the country, we have paid
from reve^Bue a large amount into capital ' account. It is
not the custom with other countries in the world, which
have (^een engaged in wars, to place all the expenditure of
those wars on reveDuo immediately. The United States did
not, they could not, they left it to capital account, and it was
years before they commenced the reduction of their indebt-
edness. It was fourteen years before they returned to specie
payments. I have shown, I think, conclusively, that there is
no great cause for alarm in the amount of burden that is
imposed upon this country for interest at present. I have
shown that there was, up to 1885, a less rate of interest 'per
capita upon this country than existed in 1878, and only 23
cents at the most more than .there was in 186t,
when the people were poorer and had not the
ability to pay. I have shown that, taking out the extraordi-
nary expenditures and those that are not taxation, the
increased expenditure from 186*7 to 1835 has been compara-
tively trifling, a little over $2,000,000. So, Sir, I do not antici-
pate that we shall hear very much more of the increased
taxation from $13,000,000 up to $31,000,000 or $35,000,000
in e'/^hteen years. Sir, they have first to convince the man
who has engaged in the business and the duties in life, and
who is expending $35 for an outfit and a suit, that he is
doing wrong and ought to go back to the $13 suit, that he
had eighteen years ago, when he was a boy. They
will have to convince the merchant who id doing a business

of millions that he is in danger of bankruptcy ?)nd rmn
beoanee his ezperses arc larger, his staff of clerks is larger
than they were when he had a little corner shop, and as
Carlyle said : " The red herrings and the pipes painfully
crossed in the wicdow." Sir, before they can convince the
people of this country that we are doing wrong in our
expenditure, they will have to persuade the stockholders of
the Bank of Montreal to sell out if they wieh to avoid
bankruptcy and ruin, because the Bank of Montreal, when
it started, only expended £400 or £500 a year, whereas they
now have established agencies all over the Dominion, and
in New York and London, and are expending an enormous
€um yearly in keeping up those agercies. They will have
to persuade the stockholders of the Bank of Montreal
that they are in danger of ruin and loss before they can
persuade the people of this country that they are
inTdanger, because there has been necessarily an in-
creased expenditure owing to the increased area of this
country. Sir, there have been necessary expenditures,
because we have had large undertakings which were neoes*
eary to our very existence, and we have bad a great
struggle to accomplish this purpose ; but, Sir, we have suc-
ceeded, and the liabilities arising out of that have been
placed upon us earlier than we anticipated. We entered
into au engagement to construct the Canadian Pacific .Rail-
way, and have it completed in 1S91 ; but circumstances
made it desirable, in the interest of the country, for this
House to hasten the completion of that great work. Well,
it is almost completed, and, as I have shown the
House, the burdens for interest are not unduly pressing
upon this'oountry. We have come out of our operations
with far less burden per head than pressed upon
the United States when they came out of their
struggle. They are now reducing their indebtedness.
We also have accomplished our purpose, and will

take the opportnnity of retrieving and improving our
position. And, Sir, we shall do that ; we shall rest from
oar labors, and shall give oar attention to reducing the
indebtedness of oar country, and wilhont andulj taxing
the people. Sir, I spoke of the Canadian Pacific Bailway.
They have accomplished a great work, and we have assisted
{hem.

Anhon.MBMBER No. ' . > -^

.'■ .... . ■ . ..>.•--' . ..

Mr. MoLELAN. Mr. Speaker, I remember the dis-
oaasion in this House, when it was said that we were giving
them everything, and I thiuk the echoes of some of those
speakers still linger in the corners of the ceiling, when it
was declared that all we were doing for them was a gift,
And that the loan of $35,000,000 which we made to them
would never be repaid to the country. It was only last
year when they came here and asked that we should allow
them to issue bonds to the amount of $35,000,000 and take
|20,000,r00 of this as security for $20,000,000 of our indebt-
edness, aad put the other $10,000,000 upon lands in the
North- West, looking to them only for it, and that we should
loan them $5,000,000 more. Atthat time the gentleman who
Bays " no," perhaps, or some one beside him, said it was
only another gift of $5,000,000 to the Canadian Pacific
. Bailway, and that it would neve be returned. Sir, we did,
in the interest of the country, adopt that proposition, and
$9,000,000 was left upon lands, and they sold their bonds
and paid us the $5,000,000. They have gone on and
ziearly bronght to completion that great work. But, Sir,
we kno^ that there are a great many things to be done in
order to make that work a oomplete success. The termini
of that road have been spoken of as being at Liverpool and
Hong Kong, and it is desirable, in the interest of this
-country, that they should be enabled to make that com-
munication between Liverpool and the eastern countries.

They say to as : It is difficult for us to do it because nearly
all the money we have raised from that $15,000,000 is
exhausted in our undertaking ; you now hold a mortgage
upon all our lands, and we are unable to raise any money
upon them. It will be known to hon. gentlemen that last
year great pressure was brought to bear upon members of the
House that we should give up that lien upon the whole of
the lands and take a certain portion of the lands, leaving th&
rest free for the company to raise money upon. They oome
again and ask us to do the same thing. They represent
that a great expenditure is necessary to make the proper
connections east and west snd efficiently equip the road,
and they ask us to take a certain portion of that land as
payment for the lien we hold upon the land, and upon the
land only, and leave them to deal with the rest for their own-
benefit. Well, Mr. Speaker, we have consideied that mat*
ter. We iiave weighed it carefully, and we have thought
that— having aided and assisted the Canadian Pacific Bail-
way Company to accomplish so much, to obtain a standing
and footing in the money markets of the world, and to ba
recognised as a great and powerful company, that has
accomplished a work of Imperial importance, that it
can well stand alone, can well work out its own destiny
and accomplish its own purposes. And we have thought
it to be in the interests of that company and in th&
interests of the country at large if we were to remove th&
lien that extends over the whole of the Canadian Pacific
Bailway lands and take a certain portion which w&
oonbider of the value of 89,000,000. We have said to-
the Canadian Pacific Bailway Company : Gentlemen,
this is the position of things. Now that you are
strong and powerful, able to walk alone, now that yoa
have shown to the world the importance of this great
undertaking, let us close all accounts, let us make a
full and complete settlement. You take your lands and

raise what money you require to meet your purposes and
we will take a portion of those lands and hold them
and dispose of them for the purpose of meeting the
balance of the loan after paying $20,000,000 in cash.
And, Mr. Speaker, I am able to announce to the House
that arrf.ngements have been made by which the com-
pany agree to accomplish that purpose and to pay us
$20,000,000 in cash, one-half in May and one-half on or
before 1st July, and enable U3 to close all accounts
with the Canadian Pacific Bailway Company and receive
our $20,000,000 that we may provide for our floating
indebtedness and have spare cash in the Treasury and
not be under the necessity of increasing our liabil-
ities. We were told time and again that, the 'money
and aid we were giving to that company were gifts,
and would prove an entire loss to the country. But we
believed otherwise, and the result has proved we were
right in placing faith in that work and in those
who managed it. When we receive that money
we shall be able to pay ofi' all that sum of
$14,000,000 of floating debt, and be able to turn
our attention to the older Provinces. The House and the
country know that a large portion of the time and atten-
tion of the Government has been given to the North* West
and the Canadian Pacific Bailway, perhaps to the neglect
of some of the older Provinces, and we think it is desirable
in the interests of the older Provinces that the attention of
the Government should be given to them, and that the
Canadian Pacific Bailway now being on its feet should work
out its own destiny. We have advanced so far, and at the
earliest possible day I »huii buomit lur i e approval of the
House a proposition to carry out this undertaking and
enable ns to settle all accounts with the Canadian Pacific
Bailway Company, and to receive the money that is repre-
sented by the $20,000,000 of bonds which the Government

boll. I think taking the whole position we have oaase for
congratalation. We have cause for oongratnlation that we
have done so maoh and not imposed more burdens upon
thii oountry, and that we have gone through with our part
of the undertaking and not suffered more inconvenience
than we have done . Sir, we all deeply regret the condition
of affairs during the past season; we deeply regret the
outbreak in the North-West; we regret the loss of life
that was occasioned by it; but if we ' ) to believe the
words of hon. gentlemen opposite even that has done
us good. The House will remember, and will remember
with admiration, the speech which the hon. gentleman
opposite made in the absence of his leader — the speech
which he made when he came out from the shadow of party*
ism and spoke as a man and a Canadian . He said :

" Sir, people respect those whom they fiad to be able to fight for their
own land and to defend their own oountry. Oar conduct has been
watched and scrutinised on both sides of the Atlantic, and there is no
doubt whatever in my mind— I say it frankly— that we stand before
the nations of the world in a better position to-day than we did three or
four months ago on that single score."

Even that ocouirrence, the hon. gentleman says, has done us
good. Tes, we came back from that fight lamenting the
. death of those who fell in the defence of their oountry ;
but we came back without a permanent wound or disfigure-
ment, or without bei'Jg dismembered; we came back
wearing no empt> i^^eeve, but with both our good arms
tried and strengthened and skilled to carry forward the
banter of our country and to work out a grau^ destiny
for ourselves among the nations of tho earth. Mr. Speaker,
I beg to move that the House resolve itself into Committee
of Ways and Means on the following resolutions : —

1. Reiolved, That it is expedient to proride that the following ratei of
duty shall be assessed and collected on each of the articles hereiaafter
named, and to repeal all Acts or parts of Acts now in force, in so far as
they provide for assessing and collecting any different rates of duty
than the rates hereby provided, or which are inconsistent therewith :—

1.
i.

6.
7.
8.

10.
11.
12.

13.

14.

15.

16.

17.
18.
19.
20.

21.

22.
23.

24.

25.

Almoada, ihelled, a specific duty of 5 centi per lb.

Almondt, not shelled, and nnts of all kindi not elsewhere specified,

a specific duty of 3 cents per lb.
Baking powder, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb.
Boxes, oases and writing desks, fancy and ornamental, and fancy

manufactures of bone, shell, horn and Ivory, alio dolls and toys

of all k nds and materials, ornaments of alabaster, spar, terra

cotta or composition, stataettes, beads and bead ornamentsi

30 per cent, a J valortm.
Bolts, nuts, washers and rivets of iron or steel, a specific duty of 1

cent per lb. anl 16 prr cent, ad valorem.
Blueing— Laundry blceing of all kindj, 25 per cent, ad valor0m.
Cider, a specific duty of 10 cents per . uperial gallon.
Oordage — Manilla and sisal cordage oi all kinds, a specific duty of

1} cents per lb. and 10 per cent, ad valonm.
Deieiccated cocoanut, tweetened or not, a specific duty of 6 cents

pet lb.
Feat'jers, ostrich and ynlture, undressed, 20 per cent, ad valortm.
Featherf , ostrich and rultare, dressed, 30 per cent, id valorem.
Fnilt, dried, viz. : — Raisins, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 10

per cent, ad valorem.
Fruit, dried, riz. : — Currants, dates, figs, prunes, and all other

dried fruits not elsewhere specified, a specific duty of 1 cent

per lb.
Fruit, green, viz. :— Blackberries, gooseberries, raspberrifH and

strawberries, a specific duty of 4 cents per lb., the weight of the

package to be included in the weight for duty.
Peaches, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb., the weigh) ' ol tke package

to be included in the weight for duty.
Oimps, cords, braids, ribbons and binding", when imported by hat

manufacturers for use in their factories, IS per cent, ad vuljr$m.
Qas, water and soil pipes of cast iron, 30 per cent, advalorfm.
Olores and mitts of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem.
Hair cloth of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem.
Harness and saddlery of every description, and parts of the same,

30 per cent, ad valorem.
Laces, braids, friuG^es, embroideries, cords, tassels and bracelets ;

also braids, chains or cords of hair, 30 per cent, ad valorem.
Lead pipe and lead sho^ a specific duty of 1^ cents per lb.
Oleomargarine, butterlne or o\her substitute for butter, a specific

duty of 10 cents per lb.
Printed or dyed cotton fabrics, not elsewhere specified, 27^ per

eent. ad valorem.
Spirits and strong waters, not having been sweetened or mixed with

any article so that the degree of strength thereof cann it be

2fi
27

28.

ascertained by Syke»' hydrometer, for every Imperial gallon of
the strength of proof of Bucb hydrometer, and so in proportion
for any greater or less strength than the strength of proof, and
for every greater or less quantity than a gallon, viz : Geneva gin,
rum, whiskey, alcohol or spirits of wine, and unenumerated, un-
mixed and not sweetened spirits, by whatever name called, a
specific duty of $l.7S per Imperial gallon.
'>ld Tom gin, a specific duty of $1.90 per Imperial gallon,
bt-irits and strong waters, mixed with any i. gredieut or ingre*
dients, and although thereby coming under the denomination of
proprietary medicines^ tinctures, easencos, extracts or any other
denomination, including medicinal elixirs and fluid extracts,
whethtr in bulk or bottle, not elsewhere specified, shall be never-
theless deemed to be spirits or strong waters, and subject to duty
as such, a specific duty of $2 per Imperial gallon and SO per
cent, ad valorem.
Cologne water and perfumed spirits in bottles or flasks, not weigh,
ing more than 4 ounces each, 60 per cent, ad valorem.
29. Cologne water and perfumed spirits in bottles, fiisks or otLer pack-
ages, weighing more than 4 ounces each, a specific duty of $3 per
Imperial gallon, and 40 per cent, ad valorem..
Tubing, wrought iron, plain, 2 inches in diameter or under,

coupled and threaded, or not, 30 per cent, ad valorem.
Whips of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem.
Wire, iron or steel, galvanised or not, 15 gauge and coarser, 20 per
cent, ad valorem.
33. Wire-fencing, buckthorn, strip and other similar fencing wire of
iron or steel, a specific duty of 1} cents per lb.
Teast cakes and compressed yeast in packages or bulk, of 1 lb. and

over, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb.
Teast cakes in packages of less than 1 lb., a specific duty of 8 cents

per lb.
Portland and Roman cement to be classed with all other cement at
specific rates as now provided.

37. On sugar, melado, concentrated melado, concentrated canejuice,

concentrated molasses, concentrated beet root juice and concrete,
when imported direct from the counti-y of growth and produc-
tion, for refining purposes only, not over No. 13 Dutch standard
in color, and not testing over 70 degrees by the polarlscope test,
a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. , and for every additional degree,
or fraction of a degree shown by polarlscope test, 3^ cents per
100 lbs. additional.

38. On sugar not for refiaiog purposes, not over No. 13 Dutch stnndard

in color, when imported direct from the country of growth and
production, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb , and 30 per cent ad

30.

31,
32

35.

39.

40.

valoiem on the value thereof free od board at the last port of

(hipment.
Oa all sugars above No. 13 Datch standard in color, and on refined

sugar of all kinds, grades or standards, 1^ cents per lb , and 36

per cent ai valonm on the value tiiereof free on board at theUst

port of shipxent.
On all sugars not imported direct without transshipment from the

country of growth and production, there shall be levied and

collected an additional duty of 7} per cent, of the w bole duty so

otherwise payable thereon.
Provided that when any cargo of sugar for refining \ K-poses is found
to grade, to the extent of not over IS per cent, of the whole, above
No. 13 Dutch Standard in color, the whole of said cargo may be
admitted to enter by polariscope test as above provided for refining
purposes only.

41. Syrups, cane jaice, refined syrup, sugar house syrup of sugar

house molasses, ayrup of sugar, syrup of molasses or sorghum,
whether imported direct or not— a specific duty of 1 cent per
lb. and 30 per cent, ad valorem.

42. Molasses, other, when imported direct without transhipment and

from the country of growth and production— 15 per cent, ad
valortm.

43. Molasses when not so imported— 30 per cent ad valorem.

The value upon which the ad valorem duty shall be levied and col«
leoted upon all the above*named syrups and molasses shall be the value
thereof free on board at the last port of shipment.

44. Provided that molasses, when imported for or received into any

refinery or sugar factory, or to be used for any other purpose

th%n actual consumption, shall be subject to, and the. ' shall be

levied and collected thereon, an additional duty of 6 cents per

Imperial gallon.

Provided that the change in the rates of duty on sugars and molasses

flhall fcpply OQly ^o importations arriving in Canada on and after the

Slat day of March instant^ and not to sneh articles warehoused prior to

that date.

46. Sugar candy, brown or white, and confectionery, a specific duty

of 1^ cents per lb. and 35 per cent, ad valorem.
2. Resolved, That it is expedient to amend Schedule "B," being the
list of goods which are entitled to entry free of duty when imported to
Canada, by substituting the following provisions for the corresponding
items now contained therein : —

1. Articles for the personal use of Consuls General who are natives

or ci-tizens of the country they represent and who are not
engaged in any other business or profession.

2. Borax, in lump.

8. Grease, the refuse of ftnimal fat.

4. Iron aad steel, old and serap, uat nothing shall be deemel scrap
iron or steel except waste or refuse iron or stebl that Lhs been
in actual use and fit only to be remanafactared.

6. Sumac, crude.

3. Rttolved, That it is expedient to strike out the following article*
from the list of goods which may be entered free of duty when imported
into Canada, tIe :—

1. "Iro.i sand or globules, and dry putty for polishing granite."

2. "Ottar of roses."

8. "Philosophical instruments and apparatus, including globes
and,"

4. Rttolved, That it is expedient to amend Schedule " D," relating to
prohibited articles, by striking out the item relating to copyright
works, and s'lbstitnting the following in lieu thereof, viz. :—

Reprints of Oinalian copyright works, aad reprints ot' British copy-
right works which have bsen also copyrighted in Canada.

8. Reiolvedt That it is expedient to provide that an Excise duty of
8 cents per lb. be levied and collected on all oleomargarine, butterir. e
or other substitute for butter manufaotured in Canada.

6. Setolvid, That is expedient to provide that the foregoing resolu-
tions, and the alterations made in the daties of Customs aad Excise on
the articles therein mentionei, shall take e£fect upon and after the 31st
of March instant.

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