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J 32X 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 Cibrarg KINOSTON, ONTARIO IMPORTANT DEBATE ON THE ADOPTION OP THE , l.*.'. ^*- . • • <. .. • •• '.V,' REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE :'";:*: ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN * -^^^^ : :. HIS EXCELLENCY AND THE LATE EXECUTIVE COUNCILrJ*^- • » • X' • • • « ' I I • • • IN THB ,;•*.. 4 • • t » t ■1-: ♦ • • • • % HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY, APRIL 18th, 1836. *'.... • « • 7 « ■» • » •■-»•• J • • » ft > • • • ' " t > • T O R O N T O, U. C. JOS. H. LAWRBNOB, PRINTBR, OVARDIAIT OPPICB. MDCCCXXXVI. ft , * ^' ), * ■« i L f '•■■F/oza/.M /- • " • • « T' i». •. •* v) It,/;, r-: ^r ■■^li • I • l;'- ,-ef,><-..,jJ :: ■'■i1^ •■'(, ;iN.,.;,;:,.';>«T< J:(, fi , * ■•> ■^i ..-Ju.s'^l ti!>>^ :.i y*!.,:l • . t • • * «*. » • •• rr: • * • • • f • • "f-fc-. .^q^f •■'. i.g'j}.'4t^:1 /.i,r!(it': ^; -ji- ;;^ /," b- ,<*■ # t> ? » •; • • - • • • • • ft r • • • • * #.' • • • V * > • • • 4 « • « • • • -|^,.".- H -*,U.(.. .:• n-.i,. ii;.-.u i. f* ;:" m^- •fc '«».>• ,- r -■'«' :. '# ,} .-»• ■»•!-; ^- : ^iii • lA. t ^ ; t 1 . • . 1 ■.,; : ' .^ I i • ■ ■ J 1 . ! . . ■ • - -"i^' .^i.J>;*fA / DEBATE. Dr. M0RKI8OK, seconded by Mr. Gibson, moved that it be— (* AewlMd— Thnl the Report of the Select Committee to whom was reftrrad the oommonioetioDi between Hie Excellency the Lieutenant GoYernor and the late Ezeeutive Coancii be now adopted, and that the Memorial to the Houae of Commons accompanying the aame be also concurred in and adopted and aicned by the Speaker, and transmitted by him to some member of the House of Commons, with the request of this House that he will present the same and support its prayer." Dr. MORRISON said that a more exciting and important topic had never come before that House. The whole Province was now agitated by it. In the remarks he was about to make, he should endeavour to confine himself to the main point. The question was, whether or not the advantages of the British Constitution were Hi be enjoyed by the Province! There were various opinions enter< tained in the country as to what constituted good government. The House, at the commencement of the Session, had given its opinion in favour of elective institutions ; and expressions of public opinion had since been given by the country that this was necessary to preserve the union with the mother country. The important ques- tion to be discussed that day was not urged forward by the House, but had been forced upon it by the head of the administration enter* ing into the discussion of the preliminaries of government ; and upon him would rest the blame if it should lead to the further inquiry whether the people or the king should elect the governor. The question before the House might be narrowed into this principle : If there is an Executive Council, what duties have the people a right to expect from it ? One thing was clear, there had been an Execu- tive Council from the earliest period. But this was strangely denied by the present Lieutenant Governor ; although, if he had searched the records of the Province, he would have found that it had existed coeval with the government itself. [Here the hon. gentleman read at some length from the works of Mr. Gourlay.] It would be worth while also to read the whole account of Governor Simcoe's admin- istration. But he would not rest this question upon the bare author- ity of Governor Simcoe, but would refer to the last clause of the Constitutional Act, and to the King's Instructions, in which an Ex- ecutive Council was plainly represented as an essential appendage to the Government. But he would contend further, that, laying aside all arguments deducible from law, established usage, and gei|-* eral admission, th^ very principles of colonial govenunent requires 1104 00 ^' vo* 4 •^ I:- I » the existence of such a Council to advise on all affairs of the Prov- ince. He had oAen admired that principle in the British Constitu* tlon H^hich allows that the King can do no wrong. The meaning of this was, that he was not subject to trial by law ; because, being one branch of the legislature, he is and ought to be free in the discharge of his duties. But still there was responsibility in the Government; because the King is surrounded by a respopsible cabinet' and Privy Council. The necessity for such a body as the Privy Council arose out of the vef^ nature of the Government, although there was neither statute nor common law which provided for its existence, any more than for that of the Executive Council here. In order to avoid despotism, there must be a cabinet ministry liable to impeachment for the advice they give ; and as the Lieu* tenant Governor here is the representative of the King by royal commission, the same principle should hold good, that he can do no wrong, and therefore he should be surrounded by responsible advisers, liable to punishment as in England. Without some such responsibility the Government must be the height of despotism, and the most ardent admirers of the British constitution would most strongly deprecate its existence. If unlimited power being vested in the King would constitute a despotism, is it not equally so if vested in the Governor? He would ask, if the day had arrived when the people would tamely submit to be deprived of thost blessings which had cost the blood of patriots ? No, he hoped the time had come when they would contend for good government. It would be as reasonable for judges to dispense with juries, whose business it is to inform the conscience of the court, as for a governor to rule without responsible and intelligent advisers. It might as well be said that the Parliament is only to legislate on some afiairs, as that the Executive Council is only to advise on some affairs. The very term Executive Council implied that it was to give counsel or advice on all F^ocutive matters. But how does the doctrine laid down by His Excellency accord with this, when he declares that he alone is responsible, and that he will ask advice only when he pleases? To advise was the very essence of their office ; and they had as much right to exercise their privilege, as the Governor had to exercise his constitutional powers. It had always hitherto been supposed that the Council was consulted on all the affairs of the Province. That belief had been inculcated in all the public records, — in the Journals of the Assembly, and in speeches from the Thi'one, and had never before been questioned. Was it to be admitted that Sir Francis Head, an entire stranger in the Province, was to come and upset opinions that had been entertainefd fbr fifty years? He (Di*. M.) would appeal to the people whether they would submit to this from an individual whom nobody knew. The long existence of the practice, if nothing else, had made it the constitutional lav^ of the lanll. (Heari bear!) %»• 5 *^ Yes, the first Governor had an Executive Council. The Slat Geou III.i chap. 31, showed that there was to be one. And, if such a Council does exint, the Royal Instructions state that they are to be advised on all iifTairs of the Province. It was the most odious doctrine that ever was promulgated, to tell the Council at this late day that they are to be limited in their advice to only those subjects on which the Governor may feel it necessary to ask it, and that they are alone responsible to him for that advice. In the year 1799, Governor Preston of Lower Canada took upon himself the same authority, but the Tory Council told him they would not submit to it. He continued to act without their advice, and he had to walk about his business. Sir Peregrine Maitland did the same, and led some persons into crime. The Executive Council told him it was their province to advise him, and that, if he continued to act without advice, they would accuse him, and he must be recalled. Indeed, it was evident that the Governor could no more act by himself than the Assembly could. The privileges of both were defined by law. He would close by observing that Sir Francis Head, in replying to the Address of the City Council, had entirely mistaken the subject of it. He had represented them as dictating whom he ought to appoint as Executive Councillors. But they did no such thing : They said what every constituted body has a right to say — that tho present Council had not the confidence of the country. But they nominated no persons in their stead, but left the whole Province to His Excellency, from which to make bis selection. Mr. perry commenced by remarking, that, if there ever was an important crisis in the affairs of Upper Canada, for good or for evil, it was the present time. There generally was a time in the history of every country, which, like the " -'de in the affairs of men," as it was improved or neglected, e\v:ir!od that country to greatness and prosperity, or sunk it into insignificance and contempt. That time, in his opinion, had arrived in Upper Canada. (Hear, hear!) For many years we had been struggling to get alotjfg in the best way we could, but things had still been getting worse instead of better. At length the time came when it was ardently hoped the prosperity of Upper Canada would be advanced, her grievances redressed, and her people made contented and happy; but, as if some evil genius presided over her destinies, at that vei;y time this question was forced into discussion. People of all classes, tories as well as reformers, had at difiTerent times complained of the administration of affairs in this Province, — it had given satisfaction to none. When reformers made complaint, they were denounced as being factious, as demagogues, revolutionists, destructives, istered ; the people have asked for it — their Sovereign has ordained it. I am here to execute his gracious commands." Well, what did he do when he came here ? He sent for the Hon'ble Robert Baldwin, and he told His Excellency in plain simple language which could not be misunderstood, that, if he took office, it would be to advise him as a -cabinet minister advises the King. Doctor Rolph told him the same thing. But did His Excellency tell them, before they went into his Co'incil, that he could not accede to nor accept of their services on these terms ? No ; but urged them to take office, at the same time telling them that they would have a better opportunity to discuss that question in Council. It seemed he wished to get them into his Council that the question might be " dragged into day-light," relying on his abilities as a writer to carry him through in writing down that great constitutional question in this Province. When they, with Mr. Dunn, consented to take office, he wrote a note to them to be read publicly in the House of Assembly, saying that they had done so free and unpledged ; but the note was not forthcoming till the day after they were sworn, notwithstanding he tells the country, in one of his popular replies, that it was delivered to them before they were sworn into office — just as he tells many other things — and then it was altered from the draft agreed upon at the time thoy were sworn ; thus stooping to duplicity in order to get them into the Council, knowing that they were opposed to his principles. Having thus got them in, he proposed that no business should be done till the question was discussed between him and them, and they each should understand their relative duties. But did he do so ? No, he went on adminis- tering the government as if there was no Council, making appoint- ments to office, without coming to any decision with hi? Council; and seeing this they resigned office like honest men and (tentlemen, —not only the new councillors, but also the three old members, who were generally thought to belong to the old tory school. They drew up a formal request to His Excellency, representing their ^ 1 *^ views on the question at issue between them ; which was neter intended to be made public, as they took all precautions to keep it secret, — they even swore the junior clerks of the oflfice to secrecv» and thev went up to him in a body and read it to him. He might have told them m answer, * Gentlemen, I find the practice of my predecessors different from what you claim, and I will submit the question to the decision of His Majesty's Government.' But did he do so ? No, by no means ; but like a tyrant he told them, ' What you have written you have written ; you have put your foot in it, you must now retire from your principles or from my confidence.' Immediately he got it put into print for circulation throughout the country, (he must get credit for good manoeuvring ;) and thus he has been the cause of dragging the question before the country, and if any evils arise from it he must take the consequence. If the people be aroused to discuss questions of governmeht, upon him must fall the blame. No doubt His Excellency never thought of such consequences following ; or if they did follow, that he could put them down as he would the clamours of the Kentish paupers. But he would find himself mistaken ; the people of Upper Canada were British subjects who understood their rights, and would not submit to be deprived of them by Sir Francis Bond Head or any other Francis. The question now before the country was not whether we should have a new constitution, like the United States ; no, but whether we should have the British constitution administered in all its blessings and advantages, as Governor Simcoe promised us ; or whether we should have all its evils, — pensions, high salaries, established church, rectories, <&;c. — without any of the advantages attending it ? It was admitted by Sir Francis himself, that if the King was here he would require an Executive Council to advise him. And was it not most ridiculous and absurd in His Excellency to set himself above the King, to proclaim that he was alUwise and all'powerful, and required no assistance in the government of the country ? If it was necessary for the liberties of the people that the King, whose interests were identified with theirs^l should have this check over him, was it not much more necessary in the case of a captain of the Waggon Trais or a commissioner of Poor Laws, who had no other interest in this country but the few paltry pounds he put into his pocket while he was here ? The Council claimed nothing but what was admitted in England ; not one of the editors in the Province said they did ; he knew His Excellency said they did — as he said many other things which it would take more than his word to make go down as truth. (Hear, hear !) His Excellency says, the constitution of this Province ordained no such absurdity as an Executive Council ; but the latent intention of His Majesty to create a Council was soon made known by the King's Instructions. He (Mr. P.) would like to know what he meant by the word " soon," for it was not till 27 years after the passing of the 3l8t Geo. III., %^ B *^^ Iff %' I cap. 81, that the Instructions which he sent down to the committee were transmlMed to this country, — they were dated in 1818; but that was of no consequence, for he would say with his hon. friend, that if neither the Constitution nor the Instructions said one word about an Executive Council, it would, notwiiht.tanding, be required by the form of government. There was no such thing in the constitution of England, but it had grown out of necessity. The British government was a government of three branches. With the King rests the executive branch, in whom there must of necessity be a great deal of power entrusted, such as making war and concluding peace, entering into treaties, the power of life and death, dec. dec. ; and there ought to be some check upon the exorcise of such power. What was that check? It was the Cabinet Council, the bulwark of the rights and liberties of the country. Talk to Englishmen of lesigning the control they possessed through a Cabinet Council having the confidence of the House of Commons, and you might as well talk to them of resigning their hearts' blood : yet there was not a word in the constitution or laws of England which said that the King should be advised by his Council. Was not such a check as necessary in this country as in England? It was even more necessary ; and the Council should be responsible to the people for reasons which he stated before, — the Governor having no permanent interest in the country. But His Excellency not only says that the constitution ordained no such absurdities, we would be ruined if we had it, — yes, it would be the ruination of the country ; and, in fact, that it would be unconstitutional for the Governor to advise with his Council. And then, notwithstanding, he says, the constitution ordained no such absurdity as an Executive Council : he tells us again, that, to supply his want of local knowledge, the constitution has wisely provided an Executive Council. (Hear!) Never in his (Mr. P.'s) life did he hear such a mass of contradictions rs His Excellency had put forth in his various documents. He might just as well say that the House of Assembly should not legislate upon all matters of tli[i^ Province, as that the Council should not advise upon all its Affairs. The Governor admits that if he stood in the place of the King he would need a Council; but he says he is only the minister of the Colony ; yet, in the Instructions to which he appeals, the Government of this country is called in five different places *' your Government." And he has a discretionary power: he could declare war. (Hear!) Yes, he could; and he calls parliaments and dissolves them at his will and pleasure : it is therefore necessary that he should have a council to advise him upon those important matters. Those who took a part in the debate which took place in the Imperial Parliament on the passing of our Constitutional Act, well knew that it wns part of the constitution of England that a cabinet council should exist, and they roust have intended, when giving to 4 Canada " all the forms," yei, " the very image and transcript of the British constitution," that there should be a cabinet council t9 advise the Governor upon all the affairs of the province ; and it would bo found that this was their purpose, both from the Act itself and from the language of all public documents from that time to (his. Governors Simcoo, Hunter, and all others down to this day, acknowledged the principle, although they found it their interest to deny it in practice. And so says Lord Stanley, who was not a reformer ; and the Constitutional Association of Quebec, who were not reformers, but torics, set out by saying in their Declaration, that there should be an executive council to advise the Governor on all the ail'uirs of the province. And he had no doubt but if a question had been moved in that house fur an elective legislative council, and the present resolution was moved in amendment, it would be supported by all the tories in the house, oven by the Sol.'r General himself. (Hear him!)— [The hon'ble gentleman here read some extracts from the report of the Canada committee of the House of Commons, which was drawn up by Mr. Stanley.] — It must be conceded that the Governor takes advice of somebod}', and if not from his council it must be from secret, unsworn, and iiiesponsible advisers. Was there a man in Upper Canada who wished such a system pursued? Did even the tories desire it? for it must be granted that if persons were allowed to advise him in that way, they would feel no restraint, but would say any thing true or untrue that might suit their purpose. No one of any party was desirous of the welfare and prosperity of Upper Canada who wished the government to be administered in that way. The Governor says the Council tike an oath of secrecy, which to his mind appears to be an oath of non. responsibility to the people. But was it not the same as the oath taken by the King's Council in England ? The very same ; it was an old oath ; (he King's Council were sworn to secrecy, and yet His Excellency admitted they were responsible to the people. (The hon. member read the oath.) The very oath itself bound them to give advice upon all o^atters of the government ; and when they were thus sworn to give the Governor their best advice upon all matters which they thought was for the . peace, welfare, and good government of the Province, — was it just, % was it honourable, to bring the charges against them which had been done in His l^xcellency's appeals to the people in the shape of answers to public addresses ? His Excellency further says, it would not only be unconstitutional but it would be inexpedient that the government should be administered here as it is in England, and men could not be found properly qualified to take office as often as a change would make it necessary. Now, he (Mr. P.) would say that Upper Canada contained within itself men as well fitted for all the purposes of good government as any other country in the world, and who would lose nothing in comparison with the statesmen of any nation ; and he must 45'' If cd* 10 "d* May, it was not becoming in His Excellency to speak so conteraptO' ously of the people of Upper Canada ; and not only of them, but also of all the Enslishmen, Irishmen, and Scotchmen, who had emigrated here. But it seemed he was the only man fit to administer the government. Again he says, that if it was administered as was pro* posed, it would fall into the hands of a few dominant families at Toronto. (Hear !) What had he done to take away the power of the family compact ? Nothing ; he took his new council from those very men who had " built and feathered their nests in the branches of the tree of abuse." He told the House that when he named his council he thought they would be the most acceptable men to the people of Upper Canada. Was there a man in the country who believed that when he penned that declaration he himself believed it was true ? But that was nothing singular, for he kept men in his council who had convicted him of deliberate falsehood. When he was asked by the house whether a certain document was in existence, he replied it was not ; bui Mr. Sullivan, when examined before the committee, said there was such a document, and that it was drawn up by his Excellency himself anu executed in the council chamber ; and Captain Baldwin said the same : they only differed about who suggested it. Mr. Sullivan said he did, but Captain Baldwin said it was Mr. Elmsley ; yet he still kept this very Robert Baldwin Sullivan in his council. Could any one believe that 57 rectories would have been established in Upper Canada, contrary to the often expressed wish of nineteen twentieths, if not ninety>nine hundredths, of the people, if the government was administered by the advice of a Council responsible to the people ? What use was it to the people of this Province that the Governor was responsible to Downing Street? Suppose he appointed Sheriffs and other important officers who would exercise their power to oppress the people, what redress could be had ? for it must be proved, to sustain a charge against him, that he was actuated by improper motives ; but this it would be difRcult, if not impossible, to do. Such responsibility was all a "bubble," and His Excellency had better been writing about bubbles than about such responsibility. How could a case be made out against Sir John Colborne for setting apart 57 rectories last year contrary to the almost unanimous wish even of the last tory House of Assembly? The hon. and learned Solicitor-General said, the other day, that he (Sir John Colborne) was compelled to do so by the Constitution. That was not the case ; the constitution authorised but did not com- pel it to be done. Because the constitution authorised the Assembly to stop the supplies, was it to be argued that they must do so ? How could Sir John Colborne be impeached for withholding from the House of Assembly important information relative to the revenue, when the Everlasting Salary Bill was under consideration ? instead of being impeached or turned out, he actually made his boast of it and was approved of. And one of the answers of His Excellency,- I ■X Wl I I I .J *. .* ■■"v .Vi tO< 11 •«» Sir F. B. Head, to the House was enough to impeach him ; for, at the very time when measures were taking in the Parent State to sup. press Orange Societies, His Excellency tells the Assembly he will take no step to suppress them in this country : That very answer showed not only that he had no regard for the wishes and feelings of the people of Upper Canada, but also that he had none for the wishes of His Majesty's Government. His Excellency says it is better that the people should apply to him for redress of their grievances, than to his Council. Well, he (Mr. P.) need not go back to the case of Mr. Francis Collins, the destruction of Mr. McKenzie's printing office, dec. ; he would say nothing of these bygone matters, but come at once to His Excellen- cy's own administration, — and what would be found ? There was a gentleman who was well qualified to be at the head of the office which he had long been in &" its chief clerk, and he had applied to the Governor for it, backed by such a recommendation as he might well be proud of, and which few indeed could boast — a recommendation signed by men of all parti "^r and all classes, in the House of Assem- bly, the Legislative Council, and elsewhere, (he referred to Mr. Radenhurst ;) but did His Excellency give him the situation? No. And when the Assembly subsequently addressed him to inquire whether the office was filled up, plainly insinuating their wishes in regard to Mr. Radenhurst, he did not even mention his name in his reply. And did not he connive, in the most disgraceful way, to prevent Mr. McDonell being promoted to the colonelship oT the regiment which by rank he was entitled to ? And was there net a young stripling of a boy taken out of Peter Robinson's office the other day, and made collector of customs in Prince Edward, as if there was not a man fit for the situation in that country ? If these things were appealed against, what redress could be got at the Colonial Office, where one man was out and another in while the complaints were on their way there ? Look to the removal of the two crown officers, which was done to the great joy and satisfaction of the people of Up- per Canada, and see how, by interested misrepresentations, they were re-appointod, — the one to the Chief Justice of Newfoundland, and the other installed in his former situation. Suppose His Excellency should appoint a man to be a judge of the King's Bench, with slender qualifications as to character and still slenderer talents and know- ledge of the laws, and he should, either from his ignorance or wick- edness, sacrifice a man's life. How was redress to be obtained? Then, there was the case of William Forsyth of the Niagara Falls, whose premises were invaded and whose property destroyed by a military force by command of the Lieutenant Governor ; he applied to the Colonial Office after seeking in vain for redress in this country, but had not obtained justice yet, nor was there any more probability of his getting redress than there was years ago. This responsibility to Downing Street was of no practical use to the people of this coun- t^ 12 •^ ^ tryi and therefore the necessity of a responsible Executive Council 4|t' io advise upon all matters relative to the government of the colony. His Excellency told the House that he was preparing remedial measures for the consideration of his Council. What, he (Mr. P.) would ask had become of them ? he would like to know where they were ; His Excellency had every opportunity to bring forward his remedial measures, but not one of them had made its appearance ; tn the contrary, there was not a step he had taken yet, that has given satisfaction to the country ; and notwithstanding all his profes- sions of coming here to "root out the tree of abuse," we are just where we were, — he had done nothing but dismissed one Council and appointed another. He says he has followed in the same track of other Governors. He (Mr. P.) denied it. His Excellency told them, there never was an Executive Council till 1818, but he did not deny, that other Governors had an Executive Council before that time, and thus he contradicted himself. But saying nothing about that, he would ask, what was the use of recalling Sir John Colborne, and sending him, if he was to follow in the course of other Governors ? He admits there are certain families who have actually grown rich upon the abuses of the Government, so that agitators have subsisted by exposing them, and therefore, there must have been* some use in recalling Sir John Colborne and sending out Sir Francis Head ; but if he intends to do just as others have done, he (Mr. P.) must say, that of the two, he would prefer Sir John Colborne ; indeed they should nev6r be named in the same day. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The very state of our affairs in a country blessed by Providence, liii, with so many natural advantages, proves that there must be something wrong in the administration of our Government ; and he would main, tain, that it became the Representatives of the people, after the question had been " dragged into day light" as it had been, to support the principle of responsible Government, and if it had not hitherto been introduced to the country, to do it now, for the interests of the country required it. In doing so, they did not seek for any change in our Institutions, but merely to enjoy the same blessings as our fellow.subjects in the Mother Country. He further maintained, that it was their bounden duty to use all constitutional means, to obtain these desirable ends. What could they do ? In the first place, they could stop the Supplies, and in the next place, appeal to the King and Parliament at home. It was admitted on all hands, that they might withhold the Supplies ; but it might be said the time had not yet come, when it was proper to do so. In the name of God, when would it come ? It might be said that in England the supplies have not been withheld in times of irreat agitation. He would admit it. But why ? Because the majority of the Commons always rules the Ministry. He was aware that many scare-crows would be held up, but he was of opinion, notwithstanding, that this was the time.*- J' 3 •a .lis- M '^- t^ 13 vot m) Council colony, remedial Mr. P.) ere they ward his arance ; that has i profes. are just Council le track ncy told It he did before nothing !ir John of other actually agitators ive been" Francis Mr. P.) ; indeed iar, and ndence, mething d main. fter the support hitherto s of the change as our ed, that ) obtain e, they ing and V might not yet 1, when es have limit it, lies the leld up» ime.— ■I ■4 Perhaps it wo- ^ be said that we ought to tell the Governor what we intend to do. »ut the House had been as moderate as men could be» under their circumstances. They intimated, in their address to the King last year, their intention, and the only remaining question was, whether the right time had arrived. He believed the House would not be doing its duty if it did not now take a firm stand ; wLxen the Constitutional rights of the people were invaded by force and violence, when the Governor tells them that they cannot have the British Constitution, and thus attempts to strip them of their birthright.—- Under such circumstances, should the House grant the supplies, it would betray its trust. When the new Council was formed by the addition of known reformers, it caused universal satisfaction. But for what purpose was it formed ? Merely to be a screen for Sir Francis Head, — a mere delusion. When that Council was dismissed, the House went up to the Governor with an Address, expressing their regret that such a step had been taken. They afterwards passed resolutions declaring their want of confidence in the present Council. But what was the result ? The Governor would not dismiss them but he derided the people, telling them that he had confidence in his advisers. Why, it would be committing political suicide, to grant the supplies under such a state of things. Perhaps he would be told that if the supplies were stopped, the Governor would refuse the contingencies. Well, let him refuse them. He was addressed for JS2,000 several days ago, and was to give an answer to-day at 12 o'clock. What it was he did not know ; but had little doubt but it was a refusal. It was also reported by some of his satellites that he intended to shut up all the public offices. Let him do so ; if be thinks it will advance the interests of the country or the purpose for which he was sent here, let him do it. Of course he had the power in his own hands if he pleased. The farmers of the country were independent of him, — they could " shear their own fleece and wear it>" He would say here in his place, that if the supplies were stopt, and his Excellency did not dissolve the House, it would be a clear admission that he was aware the country did not go with him. The Executive Council were bound by their oath to advise him to dissolve the House — to send home those demagogues, and get men who would go with him. He trusted that day would decide the question whether the supplies were to be stopt or not ; and if they were, let Hia Excellency come down and thunder his cannon in their ears, dissolve the House, and see what the consequence would be. Let him de» nounce us as traitors to the interests of the country, betrayers of the trust reposed in us by our constituents, and send us back to them again, and ask them whether they approve of us or not. The whole course of His Excellency, not only on general matters but in partia cular acts, was to be condemned. He had interfered with the privileges of the House of Assembly, in si^ying he was surprised it should address him on the subject of the present Council till the , Xtt^^rt^*- ¥* «o« 14 •<>* iijii Committee had reported. And does he not speak of this matter most freelf to ndembers of the Assembly, and to private persons out of doors ? He tells them, * The House of Assembly has got the pig by the wrong ear, — they have got hold of the stick by the wrong end.' Many names are already in his black book ; my name, I am told, occupies a very conspicuous place there. And did not he influence officers high in His Majesty's service to come to this House and pilfer that very Report from the table, in order that he might see it and be able to shape his course accordingly ? If ever the time could come to stop the supplies, it was now. Had not every step of the Executive Government been against the inte> rests of the country ? Look at the 57 rectories ; and instead of that number there would soon be 444, as the Solicitor General wished there was the other day. If the House did not take a stand now, they would soon have no privileges to guard, or none worth con- tending for. He recollected when Mr. Boulton refused to give evidence before a committee of the House, he was brought to the bar and received a lesson from the Speaker ; and he afterwards turned out one of the greatest sticklers for the rights of the people in the Assembly he (Mr. P.) ever saw. And he had no doubt but Sir Francis Head, when he was broken down from his present haughti- ness, would be a useful Governor to Upper Canada, and as great a stickler for the privileges of the House of Assembly, as Mr. Boulton was. He was desirous of moving the following amendment : — " That this House regards it as one of the brightest features and most import, ant attributes of the British Constitution that the head of the Government ia assisted in all its affairs by the advice of linown and responsible Councillors and Officers who possess the confidence of the people ; and that the people of this Province had imparted to them the same form of Government by the British Statute 31st Geo. 3rd, chap. 31st which, m the memorable language of the revered Simcoe, 'established the British Constitution and all the forms which secure and maintain it in this distant country,' and ' singularly blessed this Province, not with a mutilated Constitution, but with a Constitution which has stood the teat of experience and is the very image and transcript of Great Britain.'" Let any man who pretends to be for the Constitution of the country, vote against that proposition ; but whatever became of the amend- ment, he hoped the original resolution would be adopted, that the country might know the Report had the sanction of that House. Mr. McNAB said, that before entering into the discussion of the important question now before the House, and which had been so unfairly kept from the country, he would endeavor to remark upon What had fallen from hon. gentlemen who had spoken before him. He expected that the hon. and learned member who introduced this matter, would have furnished the House with something like autho- rity for the principles he advocated ; but the only authority he Itdduced, was that of Mr. Gourlay's opinion. The whole proceed. % •I % .' WW 'x' <■■», 'I I I matter SODS out t the pig le wrong mCf I am I not he to this r that he V. Had the inte- ,d of that 1 wished ind now, irth con- to give It to the lerwards people in )t but Sir haughti- i great a . Boultoa ist import, irnment is cillors and >ie of this he British ige of the ms which essed this which has of Great country, amend, that the jse. m of the been so irk upon ore him. iced this ;e autho- ority he roceed- •o* 15 »o» iags on the part of those who called themselves Reformers, in regard to His Excellency and the Administration of the Governme||, wcff9 the most singular he ever saw. When Sir Francis Heaa arrived here, they extolled him to the highest pitch. The hon. member for the second Riding of York, sent out " epistles to the farmers," through the Correspondent and Advocate, praising him as a " Radical of the first water." But short-lived was his popularity with them ; for the very first speech he made, his very first communication to the House of Assembly, was, on motion of the learned Doctor from Oxford, referred to a committee of privilege, as a breach of the privileges of the House. This must have been premeditated, for the hon. and learned Doctor had his motion prepared before he heard the speech delivered. — He did not even take his seat on the return of the House, from the Bar of the Legislative Council, but actually made the motion before the Speaker was fairly settled in the chair. When it was rumoured that the Executive Council had resigned, the House addressed .His Excellency for information concerning the facts, and he, in the most frank manner, communicated the correspondence between him and his council on that subject. His Excellency's Reply, together with the correspondence, was referred to a select committee ; and it was worthy of remark, of whom that committee was composed. Were the members chosen from both sides of the House ? No, they were from only one side ; and although he moved to add two from that side of the House with whom he generally acted, in order that the opinions and views of both parties, might be fairly represented in the committee, it was refused. He said then, and he must still say, that he thought it was very unfair. He wished to have the hon. and learned members for Cornwall and Kingston named on the committee, both Lawyers of high standing, and he thought it was due to their side of the House, that they should be on it ; but no, not one but men of their own party would they appoint : and would it be believed, those hon. gentlemen who took on them-% selves the whole responsibility of this great question, and would not receive any assistance from others, voted against his motion.— Having got it all their own way, they had at last brought in a Report embodying the grievances of the last seven years. But it ought to be known it was all from one side of the House. What authority had they shown for the principles of the Report 1 Whv, the learned Dr. (Morrison) had found the authority of Mr. Gourlay. [Hear.] After sitting in secret conclave upwards of three weeks, they brought it in, late on Friday night, or rather on Saturday morning, and imme- diately resolved that it should be printed. Where was the necessity for being in such hurry to get the order passed for printing it ? Did they print the documents sent down by his Excellency, before they petitioned the people of the country to petition the Assembly to stop the supplies ? [Hear, hear.] No, but it was to prevent hon. mem- bers on his side of the house from reading and examining this preci- if 1 11 < ^^» 16 *<>' Otis documedt, in order that they might be prepared to answer any thKkg iiki argument, that might be found within its two or three hiin« dred pages. Yet that house ordered the report to be distributed among the clerks, to be copied for the Correspondent 6^ Advocate newspaper, and that its discussion should be the first thing on the order of the day for Monday morning : thus was a great majority of hon. members on his side of the house driven into the discussion of the subject, without even affording them an opportunity of reading the report. Such is the manner in which the committee was appointed and the Report made; and how have they proceeded this morning? Did they come forward and propose to discuss the question in committee of the whole House, in such a way that an opportunity would be af« forded to the hon. and learned Speaker to express his sentiments, and give the House the benefit of his learning and talents on this great question ? No ; but with the Speaker in the chair, one moves a resolution, and another moves an amendment to it, which was a manoeuvre to prevcuit any one from the other side of the House from recording their sentiments on the Journals. (Hear, hear.) Was that fair ? They should not do so ; and he could assure them that he, and those who took the same view of the question that he did, would take another opportunity of recording their sentiments. They come forward and talk of responsible Government : — but he would like to ask those gentlemen, if they wished the Government to be responsible to the Mother Country? If they did, he must declare that he thought it would be must unjust to turn out the members of the Executive Council, when they could not go with the majority of the Hou^e of Assembly* (Hear, hear.) Yes, he would declare it would be the most iniquitous system for this country to be governed, by the majority of the Assembly, and much worse than our present: system was represented to be by those gentlemen. VVhy, they would turn out every officer who was not of their party ; and yet this was ^the system they wished to introduce into this country. Such was<^ not the practice of the present Government ; the records showed that h\\ the patronage was not bestowed on one side, although the hon. gentleman from Lenox and Addington had asserted it was. He complains of the appointment of some young gentleman, a Mr. Beeston, to the office of Collector, and says that the Government should act impartially, and the fittest m n should always be selected to fill office. Was that the course pursued by the majority of that House, of which that hon. gentleman claims the honor of being the leader? It was not ; for instance, that hon. gentleman had received Do less than three appointments this Session, from a majority of the House : — 1st. A Commissioner with Mr. Bidwell, to treat with Commissioners on the part of Lower Canada, on all subjects con- nected with this Province. 2d. To sell the Stock and arrange ftll the afilairs of the Welland Canal. 3d. For disposing of the School Lands ; and each appointment to the tune of $4 per day. And wat ■I -: 1i- ««* 17 »'*' A he the fittest man in Upper Canada to discharge the duties of those several offices? He (IVfr. McNab) supposed the majority of the House intended to commit the affairs of the Wetland Canal to hifi holy and safe keeping, in consequence of the friendly feeling he had uniformly shown towards that great work. As to the Government confining their appointments altogether to persons of one class of po- litics in the country, it was not true ; the opposition benches on tha floor of the House gave a flat contradiction to the assertion. The hoo; gentleman himself was a Justice of the Peace, — it was true, he did not hold very high rank in the Militia, but whose fault was that ? He (Mr. McNai)) was sure it must be iresh in the recollection of many hon. members, the reasons assigned by that hon. member, for retir- ing from the service. According to his own statement, he had the honor of holding the rank of Corporal in the Militia, and was one of the gallant band who made such an admirable retreat before a shot was fired, after marching many miles to take the Brig Oneida, and immediately afler retired from the service ; consequently his promo- tion was stopped, and thus was His Majesty deprived of the Military services of the hon. and gallant Corporal. The hon. member for Dundas (Mr. Shaver) was also made a Magistrate, and also held the commission of Captain of Dragoons ; and was not he a thorough-going Reformer? And was he the fittest man in all the county of Dundas to be a Justice of the Peace, and Captain of Dragoons? His hon. colleague was a Justice of the Peace — Mr. Chisholni was also a Justice of the Peace and Colonel of Militia. Dr. Bruce had alap accepted the appointment ot* Coroner since he had been in Parlia* ment, — in fact, said Mr. McN. there is scarcely one of the galiant band of Reformers that are now before me, who does not hold some situation under the Government. In addition to which, they have all been well provided for by the majority of this House. No less than eight members of the opposition were, by their own votes, and those who act with them, appointed in one batch. Commissioners at $4 pei dt^y. Even the hon. and learned Doctor (Morrison) opposite had ac- cepted an ofHce durin^f the present Session from the Government he is forever abusing. He hoped the hon. and learned gentleman would not get into a passion with him for mentioning his name, at least not such a passion as he saw him in, in the ^Jethodist Committee Room — he referred to the gentleman who sat all Good Friday, trying the Methodists ; had not he taken office under the Government ? Yes, he had, he was a member of the Medical Board, appointed by Sir F. fi. Head, as that hon. and learned gentleman says, without the ad. vice of the Council. And with all the boasted independence of the majority, they were continually applying for every little office that became vacant in their own part of the country, while they were playing into each other's hands in the way of appointments in that House. It was truly ridiculous to hear hon. members abusing tho. Government for not appointing persons tu office who were unfit to B i^ 18 •^ A y il • !i • i • I 4 ">' « 4 » t I, III! I. d'lBoharge the duties required of ttietn,— while the Journtils of the House showed that with the exception of one or two, every member on the opposition, had either obtained appointments from the Govern, ment or from the House, and some o^them three and four situations ; for instance appointing the hon. member for Halton, Mr. Durand, a Commissioner to sell the School Lands, and at $4 per day, when it is a notorioOs fact, there is not a foot of School Lands in the Gore District, and he knowing this, and voting for his own appomtment. There were some more of the proceedings of the party relative to this matter which ought to be exposed. When the documents came down to the House, he moved to print 5,000 copies of them that they might be sent forth to the country ; but the learned Mayor and others opposed and defeated the motion ; while they prepared a petition, sent it forth to the country, got a few signatures to it, and when it came back, they say, ** Here is an expression of public opinion." That was what he (Mr. McNab) called begging the question. They ask the people, " If we oppose the Governor, stop the supplies, bring the government into embarrassment, and throw every thing into confusion, will you support us at the next election ?" And these petitions they call a spontaneous expression of public opinion. Here is the document, which I will read to you : it is signed William Lyon Mackenzie, a gentleman whom I suppose you have heard of. (Laughter.) [The hon. gentleman read from the circular letter which accompanied the petition, and then from the language of His Excellency in answer to addresses, and asked — ] Is that like the language ascribed to him in this circular ? And yet you hear his Excellency accused of '* garbling" when a clerical error happened in leaving out the word these in the extract from the King's Instructions : and this too bv men who had the fuce to send forth such perverted language as an exposition of his sentiments. [Hear, bear !] Was not the Governor sworn to uphold the British constitution in this Province ? And if his Executive council should take a different view of matters, and give him such advice as would, if followed, lead to the overthrow of British supremacy in the country, was he not baund to dismiss them, whether they were approved of by the majority of the Assembly or not? Was a system which had been acted upon for fifty years to be oban Joned for the mere opinion of Mr. Attorney Baldwin or John Rolph ? [Hear him !] And because his Excellency was pleased to accept of their resignations would any man think the less of him ? or would he do so even if Sir Francis Head had expelled from his councils men who had signed a document which was a libel upon the people of Upper Canada, and which contained doctrines'destructive of our connexion with the Parent State ? The Report states that his Excellency said, if the council would retire from their principles he would keep them in his service, and that such declarations are calculated to corrupt the f;>?bUc morals. The expression of his ExceUency on that 8ubi«ct A if th th lo i. '■V iais of tbe ry member le Govern. situations ; Durand, a y, when it I the Gore pointment. relative to ents came 1 that they ilayor and repared a to it, and of public ?ging the rnor, stop and throw alection ?" of public you : it is ppose you I from the i from the asked — ] And yet rical error he King's xjrth such ar, hear !] itution in different followed, was he of by the had been )pinion of i because IS would 9n if Sir id signed Canada, with the d, if tbe 9m in his Tupt the subject I ■€ M;^^^ •o 19 »^ was merely the usual hint to resign ; but what did the oouncil say ? At the conclusion of their ducument to the Governor they pray, that if their proposal is not acceded to, they may be allowed to disabuse the public mind. Tiioy were quite willing to settle the matter with their consciences, and continue in the council, if they could be aU lowed to publish to all Upper Canada the secrets of the Executive Council. But no, his Excellency teila them he does not want such men for his confidential advisers. Honourable members on the opposite side talked a great deal about the Everlasting Salary Bill, as they called it< He voted for that bill, and counted it one of the best public actions of his life. [Hear, hear!] It was well for Upper Canada that that bill was passed ; for, if it was not, they would now be able to accomplish their object. They would bo able to dismiss thd judges and all the public officers, at any lime, and would vote no salary to the Gover- nor if he did not see proper to appoint Doctor Morrison, Peter Perry, &c. to office, and make William Lyon McKenzie postmaster, general. [Laughter.] What were the salaries voted by that bill ? in the first place, there was the salary of the Governor, £2000, should not that be paid ? Then, there was the salary of the Chief Justice £1250; should he not be paid? and wus not the present Chief Justice an honour to Upper Canada? — the son of one of those U. E. Loyalists about whom so much had been said in that house, —the descendant of a gallant officer, and who, with many other officers of that distinguished regiment, after fighting during the whole of the Revolutionary War, catne and settled with their Colonel the late General Simcoe, in (his country. Two judges, £1000 each. The Attorney General £300. Should not he have a salary ? was not that office necessary ? The Solicitor General £200 ; and five Executive Councillors £100 each. That was the sum total of the everlasting Salary Rill ahnwt which so much had been said ; and he must say again, that he thought making the salaries of those offi. cers permanent was the best thing ever done for Upper Canada. Talk about the extra .'agance of the Government when the contin. gent account of the House of Assembly this year was between , £9,000 and £10,000 — more than is required for the support of the whole government of the colony. [Hear, hear !] A great deal had been said about the terms uron which the three new coun- cillors took office ; but the note from the Governor to them said, " I shall rely on your giving me your unbiassed opinion on all subjects respecting which I may feel it advisable to require it." If he practised any deception upon them, why did they not return the note at once and require explanation immediately when copies of it were read in tbe House of Assembly and Legislative Coun. cil ? piid they not authorise the Speaker in this House, and the bon. Captaia Baldwin in the Legislalire Council, to read this npte, for the express purpose of informing the Legislature and (he Coun- i«> 20 *<>• - '\ try of the terms on which they accepted office ? It might bo that Mr. Baldwin had some wisdom, and Mr. Rolph a great deal of cunning, and they knew his Excellency was a stranger in the country, that there was a great deal oi' business, and they thought he would need them and would keep them on their owd terms. But they found iheir mistake, for he no sooner saw the document they presented him than he bowed them out of office. And he (Mr. McNab) did think, if his Excellency had acceded to their views he should have lost hia head for it. They found no fault with the note explaining the terms on which they took office, but went to the Council Chamber, and drew up the declaration which caused their dismissal ; and he believed they would give half what they were worth if they could recal it and go back to the Coun* di again. The hen. member for Lenox and Addington snys the Governor has power to declare war. That was new doctrine; at least he never heard before that a Lieutenant Governor of a colony had the power of making war. That hon. gentleman and those who act with him will find war enough when they go back to their constituents, for he [Mr. McN.] was persuaded the document they had brought forward would not go down with the country, but they would be told by the people, " You have brought yourselves into collision ^yith the Governor, you have stopt the supplies and thereby deranged the aflairs of the government, retarded the im- provement of the country, and injured the public credit abroad ; that is not the way to advance the interests of this Province, and you are not the men to be entrusted with them." Let it be known that this Radical Parliament was the first in the history of the country to stop the Supplies. When Mr. Hume proposed such a thing in the House of Commons it- was denounced as a revolutionary project and was scouted at once. The hon. member for Lenox and Addington talks a great deal about the language of the Governor ; but what sort of language did he make use of about the head of the Government to-day ? Such I am sure as llie people of Upper Canada will not approve of. He [Mr. McN.] feared, when he came into the House in the morning, he would find difficulty in meeting the arguments which would be brought forward on the other side ; but he did not feel so now ; they had brought forth nothing like argument to show that the Executive Council should be responsible to the people. Governor Simcoe, and all from his time to the present, had followed the same praC' lice with regard to taking the advice of their council ; and he wad persuaded the people would not approve of the present measures. bfo Radical Parliament would ever die a natural death in Upper Canada ; the last one sat only two years, and it was called the Long Parliament, and ii was not very probable the present one ' Would sit much longer* wh qu« f ^ht bo thaf ;at deal of ^er in the ey thought >WD terms. document And he id to their id no fault office, but ition which I half what the Coun* ! Governor at least he :olony had those who ;k to their iment they untry, but yourselves pplies and ed the im. it abroad ; eince, and Let it be le history proposed need as a I. member language ke use of m sure aa !r. McN.] he would Q brought they had iixecutive ' Simcoe, ime prac- d he was neasures. in Upper sailed the ;sent one *©• 21 •©» Having laid so mJch in reply to hon. members on the other tide who had spoken before him, he would now proceed to the* main question. It was difficult to conceive what object the Executive Council had in view when they made their representation, or rathor it was difficult to conceive how the real bearing and effect of the representation could have escaped them, for he would be unwilling to charge the whole of them with having made it knowingly. It opens with an almost express declaration of the truth of a variety of statements, which, although zealously asserted and put forth by a particular political party, havQ been denied with equal zeal and more truth by their opponents. These assertions too reflect strongly on the administration of the government in former times, and therefore came with a peculiarly ill grace from the heads of departments. For example, they assume as the proper construction of the opinion expressed by lord Glenelg, that the condition of the province is "unhappy;" they attribute it to an "un. constitutional abridgement" of their duties. Thoy assert an " estab. lished opinion" in the country on the subject, infer a state of discontent Avhen they speak of contentment being " restored," and treat the publit mind as in a state of excitement bordering on revolution, which cannot be prevented unless "the system of local government is altered and condncted according to the true spirit and meaning of the constitutional act ;" the whole forming a running commentary on the seventh report of the committee of grievances, admitting its truth in some important particulars,and falsifying in spirit and almost in letter the address of the Legislative Council in reply to lord Goderich's celebrated despatch, to which three, if not four, of the very Executive Councillors expressly assented. The representation may be examined under two hpads,— the wiaWcr and the manner; 1st. The Executive Council claim as a constitutional right, or rather as a duty imposed on them by the constitution, and which they have taken an oath to discharge, to advise the King's representative on the affairs of the province generally, i. e. to have all the affairs of the province submitted to them for their advice, without reservation. This claim is founded upon the language of the 31st Geo. 3d, which speaks in one or more clauses of such Executive Council as shall be appointed /or the affairs of this province ; and it is inferred, that because they are so appointed /or the affairs, c^c, and because only some particulars are fixed in which their concurrence is necessary, the consequence is that their advice must be taken on all affairs, though their concurrence to particular acts only is required. This seems a forced construction even upon the words of the act, still more so when other considerations are adverted to. Would it hav% been such a violation of the 31st Geo. 3d, as to have pFevented the affairs ofthe province from being carried on, if no Executive Council had ever been appointed ; or if one had been appointed limited to thia particular matters mentioned in that statute ? In other words, is the •^ 26 »d» i 1 ♦ '! « E> ecuMve Council r' Integral and necetiary a part of the government thuk.lie , rnment can have no existence without it? He ehonid find it very unijcult to oascnt to Iho airirmative of such a proposition, and however impolitic he might d« n such n course, and ncnvt^ver he might condemn it, he was not prepared to say, that the public ) usinesi^ (with the particului exceptions adverted to) might not be legally nnd constitutionally carried on, though thero were no Executive Council. il, ot'''rwist', there must be a t.|»ocies of interregnum, on the rosigna* tion of the Council, and a cessation of business till its reorganization not required by any constitutional principle, nnd occasioning an un. called for inconvenience to the public service. The appointment of the Council rests entirely with the Sovereign ; he appoints what num. ber he pleases, and dismissus them at pleasure, although, to use thf» terms of the statute, they are appointed for the affairs of the proJnrr, He could not deduce from that expression any thing directory on ihe part of the legislature, as to the nature of the appointment or of the rights or duties of the Executive Council. They are not, either as individuals or as a body, responsible for the advice they give, and it cannot therefore be necessary, as a constitutional principle, that their advice should be taken, with a view to hold thein responsible to the public for the measures which the government adopts. To understand the question thoroughly, it was necessary to analyze the office of Lt. Governor. The portions of the kingly prerogative, which is delegated to him, are to be administered ?•; aim under his personal responsibiK ity ; he is to obey such instructions as he may receive from the homo government, or in the exercise of a sound discretion in matters on ivhich he is called upon to decide, without reference to that govern, ment. In the mere exercise of the prerogative, the performance of those acts which the Crown alone can perform, he stands in the place of the Sovereign ; but for the propriety of the course he may take in any such act, he remains personally and individually responsible, not in lh*s province, by reason of the nature of his office, but to the King's government, and to the British parliament : the one of which may dismiss him, the other impeach him. Although ihcrvfu'* clothe* with executive functions, he exercises them as a .»'»•.((»..,» subject to the pame responsibilities as the ministry at home. 1 nis responsibility is in its nature indivisible ; whatever acts are done must be viewed as done by him alone. The Lieutenant Governor requires the concur- rence u''^he Executive Council in certain points, and he has the right of applyir ' fo»" ♦iheir advice on any other affairs he may deem advis. able. T:> .; ^e him this right they are constituted a council for the affairs cfthc :irovince, in cder that he may advise with them, when, ever any subject presents uself rendering such advice desirable. The very limitation of the advice of the Executive Council to certain spe- ciiied cases, would appear to negative the necessity of their advice on^ other occasions, while their being an Executive Council for the affairs of the province renders them liable to be called upon for their I H 4-i J M m overnmenf. He shotild iroposition, icwtiver he ic Itisinesdi legally nnd D Council, e rosigna* ganization ing an un. )intment of what num. to use thf» 5 proof nrf. ory on ilje t or of the either as ive, and it , that their ibie to the nderstand Rce of Lt. delegated isponsibil. the homo latters on it govern, 'mance of the place ay take in sible, not ie King's ich may clothe * ubjpct tt> onsibility iewed as concur, the right m advis' t for the , when, e. The aiu SpC' advice for the br their r>, ;-f \ ' ■^W •«» 23 "^ advice at often ai the Lieutenant Governor may reouiro it. Sueli was the construction put on the 31st Geo. 3d, by the ministry bv whom the act was carried through the British parliament, and such construction had uniformly prevailed to the present day. v In the consideration ut this question, it must be carefully home in mind, that we are construing n law that exists, ind not enquiring into the policy of forming un Executive Council on uthur principles. Arguments drawn from any supposed advantages that would result from converting the Executive Council into an administration of indi. udi'als holding office in the colony, liable to lose their .jflices when '• 1 / licy they pursue is not acceptable to the majority of the House ot Assembly, are foreign to a proper consideration of the question that now arises. Upon that point he should only remark, that such a scheme seemed rather difficult to reconcile with the relation oft colony and parent stato, and that it would seem rather unjust that the meuibers of the local government should be responsible for the policy pursued here, while that policy is dictated by the home government ; and that unless the home government has the right ot such dictatioHi the connexion with the mother country becomes m rely nominal} extending in reality to little more than the appointment of the Lieut. Governor. Having thus far adverted to the matter of the communication, a few remarks might be oiFered on its manner. The Council commenc- ed by an assertion that they ma^e their representation < impressed with the oath which they have taken" — they argue that they are in duty bound to advise the Lieutenant Governor on all the affairs of the province, and that no affairs of the province ought to be withheld from their view, which he presumed to mean, that they felt impressed that they were sworn to advise the Governor on all the affuirs of the province, and could not conform to the spirit of their oath, Jnlessall such affairs were submitted to them. In no other view ':ould we justify them in making so novel a demand on the Lieut. Gov ernor, at the moment when his attention was necessarily much occu;. ed with the legislature, and when, from his being n stranger in the province, he might find it useful to make frequent reference to his Cour cil. It seemed strange that, resting their application on the obligation of their oath, they should conclude their representation by a prayer, not that they might be allowed to retire, but that they may be allowed . " to disabuse ttio public from a misapprehension of the nature and extent of the duties confided to them ;" — that is, to be allowed to tell the p''blic, " We believe the duties of our office require us to advise on ALL the affairs of the proviace — we have taken an oath to perform those duties — we are prevented, by the course the Lieut. Governor ^adopts, from, dischar^i'tg ths obligation of that oath ; but our acruples of conscience, whicn impelled us to represent the mattiBf to the Lt. Governor, and to require what we have required, will be removed if we are allowed to let you know the true state of the case. We have i\ 11 •if ! "1 : vo 24 o^ nt> objection to remain Executive Councillors, although restrained in the discharge of our sworn duties ; our only objection is to be thought responsible by the public when we are not so in fact." It was obvious there could be but one answer to such a communication. He would offer no remarks on the present Council ; but it must be evident, that a new appointment was rendered unavoidable, unless his Excellency had been unwise enough to yield the point in dispute, and while he remained in his own person responsible, to submit to the views and opinions of his Council in the administration of the government. Mr. McLean remarked, that the Report under consideration contained 104 pages, and, owing to the shortness of the time since it was brought in by the Committee, little opportunity had been af- forded for hon. members not in the secrets of the couimittee-room to become acquainted with its contents. That, however, was not of much consequence, for the very principle avowed by the framers of it during this discussion, as being the foundation of the Report, was quite sufficient to cause its rejection by every loyal and patriotic man. That principle was, " responsible government." Perhaps he did not properly understand what was meant by a responsible government ; but he took it for granted that it meant a government responsible to the House of Assembly. Now, he would like to ask hon members who seemed so anxious to have a responsible govern- inent, as they call it, if they were to form an Executive Council responsible to the House of Assembly, whether its members could retain their situation ? Surely they could not ; nor had he any idea that any one of the gentlemen who were called Reformers, and who were appointed to the Executive Council, ever thought of being responsible to that House. It was practically impossible that such responsibility could exist; for, being consulted upon all affairs of the Grown, and being responsible to the House of Assembly for the advice M-Viich they gave, they would acquire such power and controul over the Governor as was altogether inconsistent with the proper subjec tion of the government of this Province to that authority of the Mother Country which must be necessarily maintained by every Parent State o'ver its Colonies. Notwithstanding all that had been heard of the grievances of the country and the means of redressing them, it was now avowed that nothing would satisfy the majority of that house but what they call a responsible Government ; — that is a government responsible to the House of Assembly of Upper Canada, but not to Great Britain. But the very moment we establish that doctrine in practice, we are free from the Mother Country. If it was the wish df the majority of that house to separate this Province from the fos- tering care and protecting power of that country, or from what they ungratefully called her " baneful domination," let them adopt that Report. But they might rest assured that the people of this country had eyes and ears,— they could read and understand, and they would ..n ■strained in be thought vns obvious He would adent, that Excellency i while he views and iment. isideration time since d been af- ie-room to vas not of framers of eport, was d patriotic Perhaps ^sponsible Dvernment ike to ask e govern- e Council lers could any idea and who of being that such irs of the he advice roul over r subjeC' e Mother ent State d of the n, it was ouse but ernment It not to itrine in he wish the fos- lat they opt that country y would ii 'V:? •ot 23 •^^ diiidriminate between those who were actuated by patriotic motives and those who were only the demagogues of the hour, [hear, hear!] whose element was agitation, but who had no sincere desire to remedy the real grievances of the country. [Hear, hear.] Yes, hear; he hoped the people would hear and understand. He was not in that house to court the popularity which was gained without merit and lost without a crime ; but he trusted that so long as he had the honour of a seat in it, he would fearlessly advocate fthose measures which he considered were for the interest of the country to be adopted, and as fearlessly oppose all others of a contrary tendency, however speciously they were put forth. The discussion of this quei^tion, it was said, was forced upon the house by His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor. He (Mr. McL.] would like to know how he had done it. He came to this Province an entire stranger, and, as he said, unconnected with the political differences of the country; and what interest could behave in agitating such a question ? He came here a professed Reformer, he was even called a " Reformer of the first water" by those very persons who now seemed to think they could not find epithets suffi* ciently abusive by which to designate him — but the moment he would not agree to all their views they attacked him in the grossest manner. The Report stated that the first Governor of this Province was a member of the British Parliament when our Constitutional Act was passed, and it greatly extolled him for his liberal and patriotic views in regard to this Colony ; but do we find in any of his acts, speeches, or proclamations, one word about " responsible government ?" Not one syllable. The bone of contention seemed now to be whether the Governor is bound to consult the Council upon all affairs of the Colony ; but the very first act of Governor Simcoe, whom the hon. member for Lenox and Addington holds up as a pattern to all other Governors, namely, the division of the Province, into Districts, was evidently done without the advice of the Executive Council ; as the Proclamation on that subject says not one word of its being done with tLeir advice and consent. And the very first act he performed, when the first Parliament met, was to appoint a Speaker of the Legislative Council, which was also done without the advice of the Executiye Council. How, then, could hon. members stand up and say that the Governor was bound to consult them on all affairs, when such was not Governor Simcoe's practice, and when the very Act under which we live only requires him to do so on two or three occasions ? The mo- ment you declare that he, through his Executive Council, is amenable to this House, that very moment you declare the Mother Country has nothing to do with us. He is appointed by His Majesty as one of his Ministers, and he has a painful duty to perform for which he is accoun. table to his Sovereign. But hon. gentlemen on the opposition say« " Shall we have a Governor who is only responsible to Downing Street 4«000 miles distant ?" Sir, (said Mr. McLean) I look upon •*• 26 •*• I t ■ ::: v^ '■4 'I ■■ all tueh expresaions ai that to be tantamount to a declaration ofa wish for independonce from the Mother Country, and they show but too fclearly that the persons who make use of them are tired of the con* nexion? (Hear, hear.) To be sure they do not come out and say so plainly, for they well know there is too strong an attachment to that country by the people of this Province to tolerate it ; and there, fore they insidiously instil, under specious names, the poison of their principles into their unsuspicious minds; thus endea« vouring to destroy their confidence in the justice of the Govern** ment of Great Britain towards them, and render them discontented with their present colonial condition. (Hear!) While they thus industriously labour to agitate this country, they are not idle in forwarding the same designs with the Government at home, by endeavouring to create distrust of the loyalty of the people of this Province. Address afler address, and representation after representa. tion, and grievance report afler grievance report, embracing '' every imaginable topic of complaint," are sent home, which must produce a very unfavourable impression respecting the people of this Colony. And it is to be feared, if they continue crying " grievance, grievance, grievance !" that, like the boy who cried *' wolf," they will not be heeded when there is some real grievance to complain of, and then their object will be accomplished. He held it to be the duty of every good subject to inculcate peace, and do all he could for the good government of the country ; but he would ask, was it consistent with the duty they owed to the Government to be crying out " grievance" continually 7 Or, was it a duty the members of that House owed to their constituents, to get up petitions in the House and send them out to the country, asking the people to sign them ? Would it not be batter to leave it to the good sense of the people to petition them when they saw a necessity for so doing ? But no, they could not wait for that, but sent out petitions calling, — ^yes, actually calling on the people to sign them. lo further discussing this question he would remark, that the very next clause of the Constitutional Act to that on which they found their claim that the Council should be consulted upon all occasions, says that the Governor shall do certain acts without their advice- present an incumbent to such rectories as were established with the advice of the Council. But what does all this agitation amount to? Just to this : the late Executive Council claim to be consulted on all the affairs of the Province ; the Governor says, <' No, gentlemen, I am sent here by the King with particular instruotions for the government of the Colony — I will consult you whenever I think it neeessary ; and if you claim to be consulted upon all occasions as a matter of right, you must give up such opinions or leave my CouiiciK" This was just the whole matter. Was there any thing new or extraordinary in His Excellency's conduct ? No one could aay so with truth ; but, on the contrary, he had acted in conformity v<;. v.-r •1 «o« sSt •<*» ofa wish f but too the con. t and say hment to id there. 9 poison I endea. Govern>i iontented biey thus idle in ome, by 3 of this presenta. " every : produce Colony, rievance, II not be md then of every the good tent with ievance" owed to them out not be on them >uld not illing on he very 5y found casions, idvice— with the ount to ? ilted on itleroen, for the think it nons as ave mv iy thing e could iformity with the view taken of the matter by (he Act and all who adhainis. tered it. But, because certain individuals had expressed different views, the house was called upon to take such measures as never were taken on any question in this country — to adopt the Report and stop the supplies. Would the people support the majority in this course ? No, they have had too much opportunity of judging of the acts and disposition of that majiirity already ; and if this resolution was adopted, they would ask " what good is to result from it ? why is the public business stopped ?" They would be told in answer, " We want to get a responsible government." Then they would ask, " What do you mean by a responsible government? must not the Governor be responsible to the King ?" What would those gentlemen reply to such a question ? He was inclined to believe they would find more difficulty in satisfying the people even with regard to that plausible term, responsible government^ than they anticipated ; for they would find themselves mistaken if they ima. gined that the great bulk of the people had not sufficient understand- ing to know that a responsible government, in the sense in which they meant it, was inconsistent with a state of Colonial relationship ; and they were not yet prepared to throw off their allegiance, and break the connexion which subsists between this Colony and the mother country. He did not believe the country would support them in these measures. He had not much time to look over the Report, but, from what he had seen of it, he would say, that he never saw so disgraceful a public document emanate from any public bod^. (Hear, hear !) He would, however, warn hon. gentlemen that the people would not be cajoled and bamboozled by abusive language instead of argument. The hon. member for Lt^nox and Addington said that so much precaution was taken in the Council to keep their representation secret, that the junior clerks were sworn to secrecy. Well, he (Mr. McLean) would like to know how the hon. gentleman became acquainted with that fact; but he would say this, that, if any member of the Council administered such an oath, he far over* stepped the line of his duty and authority. (" Show it," from Mr. Perry.) Show it, he says ; why he has just as iruch right to admin- ister such an oath of secrecy as any member of the Council had, and to do so is contrary to the statute against unlawful oaths, (hear.) Mr. Perry, interrupting, — he never said that any member of the Council swore the clerks. He only said they were sworn to secrecy. Mr. McLfjan replied, well, how does that help it? — (hear, hear.) How dare they require any other person to do what was against the law of the land? No other person would feel it necessary to do so ; and by their doing it they proved themselves unworthy of their situation. Just as well might that hon. member swear any of the copying clerks of this House to keep any thing secret he was copying for him. It was said Mr. Baldwin did not receive the note from His Bxceilency till after the new members were sworn in : what differ- ! 4» •o^ 28 O' ;| enoe did that circnmstance make ? If they found fault with the terms of it when they did receive it, why did they not at once resign office ? Was it to be supposed the King would send out a Governor here, who was to be accountable to him for the manner in which he administered the Government of the Colony, and bind him hand and foot and deliver him over to an Execu. tive Council who were to be under the controul of the House of Assembly? What authority would His Majesty then have in the Colony] or on what principle of justice could he hold the Governor responsible for the adminis- tration of its affairs ] Such principles were contradictory and inconsist- ent, and would not go down with an intelligent and reflecting people. [Hear, hear.] Public opinion on the subject had already been shown from the spontaneous meetings which had held been in different parts of the country, and the addresses which had been forwarded to His Excellency, the siofnatures to which he was authorized to say amounted already to 5,000, and they were pouring in daily. A few months, he was convinced, would prove to the majority of that house, that they had misre))resented the feeU/ ings of the people of this country, who did not desire a system of responsi- ble Government, or self Government, that was inconsistent with their coin nezion with their revered Mother Country. Mr. wells remarked, that he found great difficulty in rising to address the House after the hon. and learned member for Cornwall ; but he felt it to be his duty to express his sentiments on this question. The ancients had a custom of crowning their heroes with laurels at the close of any great battle ; and in accordance with that custom he thought the people ought to crown the hon. and learned member at the close of the session for his pa^. triotic exertions. He had talked a great deal about responsible govern- roent, and called all who advocate this measure demagogues, whom the peo- ple would spurn from them at another election. That hon. and learned gentleman had, to be sure, a good opportunity of knowing at the last elec- tion what the country thought of the men he politely termed demagogues, when he was turned out of the representation of the county ofStormont and had to get some few canal-men to put him in fur the little village of Corn- wall. Such remarks about public opinion came with a very bad grace from that gentleman. His Excellency, he says, came here to make those reforms which arc required. Does the hon. and learned gentleman indeed admit that there was any abuse to reform 1 Who ever heard him talk of reform before, except it was to oppose iti Mr. McLean. I did not say so — but that he was called a reformer. Me. wells. Well, His Excellency says himself that he has come here for the purpose of reform ; but that hon. and learned gentleman says no reform is necessary, and yet he pretends to be a supporter of His Excel- lency! That, however, was just as consistent as the rest of his conduct With regard to His Excellency's measures of reform, he (Mr. W.) thought they would amount to about the same thing as the reform of the hon. and leaxned member for Corn wa'l. That hon. gentleman made a long speech, containing a great many bold assertions ; one of which was, that Governor Simcoe did not consult his Executive Council in his first act as Governor of this Province. He [Mr. W,] was willing to admit that the proclamation does not say he did, but it was for that gentleman to prove he did not con- sult his Council respecting the mutter on which it was issued. Such beg- ging the question was the sign of a bad cause. He says those who call themselves reformers won't come out and declare what they want, and insi- nuates that they want a separation from the mother country. Such assert tktna were a libel upon the reformers of Upper Canada : and if a separation m M ttf>. 29 *«!>» ..«? .:'( € I -"'is was desired by any in this country, it was by the hon. and learned gentle* man's party. Look at the Montreal Rifie Corps,-^th8 " casting about in the mind's eye for some new state of political existence,*'— the threats of those high in office that 'they would resist the law by physical force when it did not suit them, and many other similar instances. And, indeed, all the acts of his party have done more to bring the affairs of the country into a state of confusion, than all the reformers ever did. [Hear, hear.] Have they not upheld every abuse ? The people have declared that reform is necessary to preserve the union of the Empire, but he says no reform is neeessary« The hon. and learned gentleman from Hamilton foupd great fault because the committee were all from one side of the house. But suppose two men>> bers had been appointed from the other side, as he proposed, what could they have done against the five others? No doubt he would like that such persons should be appointed by the majority of the house on their commit- tees ; but he (Mr. W.) thought the majority knew their own business, and who to appoint to transact it ; — not tories, for they could not put confidence in them. Then the hon. gentleman made a great outcry about stopping the supplies, and said it had not been done in England for a hundred years. No doubt he would not like them to be stopped, as he and his friends expect to be benefitted by them ; but so long as the Government is administered con* trary to the wishes of a majority of the House of Assembly and of His Majesty's Government, the supplies should be stopped, whatever conse- quences might follow. Lord Glenelg says in his Despatch, that they should be withheld whenever the interests of the country require it ; and this act of the house will be approved of by all who are not willing to bow down to the golden calf. With regard to the question of the Executive Council, the first thing to be considered was, does the constitution appoint them 1 and next, are they to be consulted on all the afifairs of the Province, or only on a few ? It is quite foreign to the principles of the constitution, that they should be con- sulted only on such matters as the Governor pleases. That he believed would be admitted. He considered it to be the brightest gem in the British Constitution, that the King was dependant on the people through the Cabinet Council ; and the coiistiiuiion of this country, as explained by Governor Simcoe, required that the council should be consulted on all the acts of the Governor, and be responsible to the House of Assembly for the advice which they gave ; and without it the government was nothing but a despotism,-^ the mere government of one man, who was a stranger to the country. When His Excellency first came to the country he admitted the principle that a Ministry should govern the Province, for he sent for the hon. Robert Baldwin, and required him to name the other members of the Council* according to the English principle ; but he did not carry it out in practicn. Why should he have been so very particular in naming his Council, if ho did not intend to take their advice? A great deal had been said about those petitions ; but if any hon. members thought their constituents could be deceived by the petititions, he knew it was not the case with his. They speak as if we were chucking the petitions down the throats of the people ; but when they received them, they were at liberty to sign them or not, as they pleased. Not only a great deal had been said in that house about not printing the documents that were referred to the Committee, but some fello;^* down in Quebec had the ignorance and impudence to propose a resolution at some meeting, condemning the House of Assembly of Upper Canada for not printing them. [Hear him.] Let His Excellency dissolve the house, •nd see if the constituency of the country will not acquit themselves nobly, ««>• 30 •«» I i «',B and show him that Britons were never born to be slaves. [Loud cries of hear, hear.] We might derive a. useful lenson from the page of history. In the old Colonies, no\y the United States, secret despatchee were sent home, recommendrng measures contrary to the interests and wishes of the people, till they could stand it no longer; and so it would be in this country if the present system was continued, — it would result in open rebellion. It was the duty of members of that house to do all they could for the interest of the country; and as he believed Jioihing else would secure attention to our com- plaints' in England but slopping the supplies, he would vote for the resolution. THE SOLICITOR GENERAL began by observing, that when this important subject was referred to a Select Committee, the house and the country had a right to expect that an able, statesman-like and temperate report would have been made, containing intelligible, if not convincing arguments, and referring to authorities which would at least have the appearance of plausibility, if they were not found absolutely conclusive in favour of the views of its framers : — he regretted, however, to state that in these expectations the country at least, if not the house, would be completely disappointed. The dispassionate and intelligent reader of the voluminous document then lying on the table, would search in vain throughout its pages for dignity of sentiment, patriotic views, or calm, convincing argu. ment illustrative of truth : while, as a literary production, it would be found to be beneath criticism, — and in its general style and lan- guage, so marked with an utter disregard of all delicacy of feeling, and the ordinary courtesies of life, as to render it a disgrace to any legislative body that might sanction its promulgation. The speech of the Chairman of the Committee, which had been addressed to the house,, was but a repetition of the leading statements contained in the Report, and li'.ce the Report itself, contained no one solid argument to sustain rlie new and most extraordinary interpretation of our Constitution which had suddenly broken in upon the minds of some of our self-styled reformers. It would not be surprising there- fore if, in the course of the remarks he should address to the house, he should not refer very frequently either to the Report or to the speech of the Chairman, as in fact his principal duty would be, to endeavour to supply information which had been altogether over, looked or disregarded by the advocates of the new theory. It appeared to him that the point to which the Committee should have turned their attention was the origin of Executive Councils in the Colonies — the duties originally assigned to them, — and the respon. sibility, if any, which attached to them as Councillors : — had this course been adopted by the Committee, they would have been greatly assisted in coming to a correct conclusion — and why they had not done so, he would not stop to enquire, but leave it to the public to conjecture motives, of which they could form as good an opinion as he could. Another advantage which would have resulted from this plan of investigation, had it been adopted, wouid have been, that the Coiamittee would have informed themieWes of the %»'' m .11 i i cries of itory. In int home, e people, try if the It was 38t of (he our com - asolution. at when le house nan-like allig^ible, h would ot found rs : — he untry at i. The 3cument ts pages ig argu. it would md Ian- feeling, B to any I speech }ssed to tntained le solid relation linds of ; there, house, to the be, to over. ry. It d have in the respon. ad this been »y they to the ood an esuUed d have of the i!^: /^ *6« 81 "^ utter impossibility of the Lieutenant Governor's divesting himself of responsibility, and that by the Laws and Constitution, he is emphati* cally and distinctly responsible to the King as the head of the Empire, politically ; and to the people of this Province, individually, in bis private capacity, for every act of his Government ; and that the Executive Council are not, and cannot be made responsible to the people for any of their acts. Without further remark he (the Sol. Gen.) would proceed to show on what grounds, and upon what autho. rities, he rested these opinions. There were not many works extant containing a history of the Constitutions and forms of Government in the Colonies, but there were a few, and some of them giving a very explicit account of the Councils appointed by th« Crown,— their duties and responsibilities, especially in the Colonies in America : and in order to attract the attention of the House to the line of argu. ment he intended to pursue, he begged hon. members would bear in . mind that it would eventually appear, that the Executive Council of Upper Canada, which it was contended was created by, as well as identified with, the Constitution of the Province, (as conferred by the 31st Geo. 3,) was merely the continuation of a body that had existed in Canada from the first moment of an organized Government after the Conquest, down to the period of the passing of that Act, which divided the Province of Quebec into Upper and Lower Canada, — and which was precisely similar to those existing in the old Colonies, on this Continent, and the West Indies. The first authority he should cite in support of this argument was that of a gentleman who held the oi!ice of Chief Justice of Georgia, during the time that State was a Colony of Great Britain, and subsequently held high legal appointments in the West Indies. This gentljpman in his remarks on the Council says, — ** They are to give ndvicc to tho Governor or Commander in Chief for the time being toAra thereunto required ; and tlmy btaud in the same relation to the Governor in a Colony tliat the Privy Council does to the King in Great Britain : in soine cases the Governor can act withoat their advice and concurrence, and there are other cases in which the Governor is required by his instructions not to net without the advice and concurrence of hie Council"—" which (instrue- tioDS) evory Oovernor and Commander in Chief should carefully attend to." " Tlie Council sit as Judges in the Court of Errors or Cpurtof i\|>ptal." ->• " The Council are named in every Commission of the Peace, as Justices of the Peace through oal the whole Colony."— Stokk's Constitutions of the British Colonies, pp. 239, 240. Thus we see the origin of Councils in the Colonies, and the duties assigned to them, and how completely the duties heretofore performed by the Council in this Province correspond with those imposed on the Councils in the old Colonies now separated from Great Britain, as well as those which remain appendages of the Empire. In the old Colonies, they advised the Governor when required by the King's Instructions, they do so here ; in the old Colonies they constituted a Court of Appeal, by our Constitution that duty is imposed upon them here ; — and in this Province, as in the other Colonies, their names appear as Justices m every CommiMuoa ; w > . ) .'1::! liO* 32 *^ of the Peace throughout the Province. The same author observe*, that when a new Governor came to a Province, the names of the persons who were to constitute his Council were named in his instructions, and that no other appointment or commission was neces- sary ; but this practice has now fallen into disuse, at least in this Province. The last set of instructions containing the names of the Council were those brought out by Sir Peregrine Maitland ; but it should be borne in mind, that thuse very instructions are these nov laid on the table by command of Sir Francis Head, that they contain ' the names of the Councillors then existing in Upper Canada and prescribe their ' duties. These instructions and these duties have undergone no change since that period. Governor Simcoe, the first Governor that came to this Province, brought with him the first instructions that were designed to direct the King's Representative, the Council, and other Officers of the Government in their duties ; and as they were in the adjoining build, ing, on record in the books of the Council, it was somewhaf strange that the Committee did not examine them. They would be found to be the same as those delivered to Sir Peregrine Maitland. In some of the old Colonies the Council was possessed of legis< lative power conjointly with the Governor, and sometimes formed an intermediate legislative branch between the Governor and an As> sembly elected by the people : — of course, in all matters relating to the enactment of laws, the Governor could not act independently of the Council, except in so far as respected the assenting to or refusing of bills. Upon the death, removal, or resignation of the Governor, the senior Councillor by the King^s Instructions assumed the Govern* ment, as in this country, unless the senior Councillor happened to be Superintendent of Indian Affairs, or Surveyor General of the Customs^ (which officers were always extraordinary members of the Council,) in which case the Government devolved on the ordinary member of the Council next in seniority. Such was the nature and constitution of the Executive Councils in the old Colonies in America, and although in the majority of those Governments, Legislative Assemblies existed, one branch elected by the people as in this country, yet there is no trace of any pretence that those Councils were responsible for their official acts to any other person or party than the King. Responsibility to the elective branch of the Legislature was never thought of; and the Chief Justice of Georgia, whose work he had quoted, and who had resided and held office in several of the other Colonies, distinctly states, that the Executive Council were guided by the King's Instructions, and were therefore responsible to His Majesty only. They were appoint- ed as in this Province by the King, and removed at his pleasure ; they advised his representative, when required, in secrecy ; their acts could be known to the King only, and to him only were they accountable for tbein. -^ '„U M «ot 83 •^s** observet, 98 of the k1 in his as neces- ist in this es of the d; bat it hese now y contain nada and ies hare Province, to direct T8 of the ng build> f strange le ((Hind I of legis. trmed an i an As. lating to lently of refusing overnor, Govern- ed to be '^ustomgt oiincil,) mber of /ouncils [>f those elected retence to any elective Chief resided es, that t^, and ppoini. asure ; their e tbey m ^ r vers of tha lound to be Let us now consider the origin and constitutional Executive Councils in these Provinces : they will be precisely similur to those already described. It would be recollected that Canada was obtained by conquest from the Crown of France in 1759, and that by the Treaty of Paris in 1763, it, together with other Territories in America, was finally ceded to Grent Britain : — the form of Government in Canada between the years 1759 and 1763, was of course a purely military despotism, regulated by the terms of the capitulation. In the year 1763 the King issued his Proclamation, in which he declares, that the Ter- ritory in America, ceded by the Treaty of Paris, should be erected into four separate Governments, viz : Quebec, comprising the whole of Canada ; East Florida ; West Florida ; and Grenada. For the purpose of shewing clearly the views of His Majesty with respect to the form of Government intended by him to be established in those Territories, it would be proper to refer to the Proclamation itself, which contains the following passage:— " And wiierens it will grratly contribute to tlie speedy settling our said new gOTernmenta, that our loving subjects should be informed of our paternal care for the security of the liberty and properties nf those who are and shall become inhabitants thereof, we have thought fit to publish and declare by this our proclamation that we have,'in the letters patent under our Great Seal of Ijreat Britain, by which the said governments are constituted, given express power and direction to our Governors of our said Colonies respectively, that so soon as the state and circumstances of the said Colonics will admit thereof, they shall, with the advice and consent of the roem- bers of our Coumiil, summon and call general assemblies, within the said governments respec- tively, in such manner and form as is used and directed in those Colonies and Provinces In America which are under our immediate government ; and we have also given power to the said Governors, with the consent of our said Councils and the Representatives of the people, so to be summoned as aforesaid, to make, constitute, and ordain laws, statutes, and ordinances, for the public peace, welfare, and good government of our said Colonies, and of the people and inha- bitants thereof as near as may be agreeable to the laws of England, and under such regulations and restrictions as are used in other Colonies; and in the mean time, and until such aBsemblltg can be called as aforesaid, all persons inhabiting in, or resorting to our said Colonies, may confide in our royal protection for the enjoyment of the benefit of our laws of our realm of England : for which purpose we have given power under our Great Seal to the Goveroors of our said Colonies respectively, to er^ct and constitute, with the advice of our said Council respectiveFy, Courts of Judicature and public justice within our ^said Colonies, for the hearing and determining of causes, as well criminal as civil, according to law and equity, and as near as may be agree- able to the laws of England, with liberty lo all persons who may think themselves aggrieved by the sentence of such Courts, in all civil causes, to appeal, under the usual limitations and restrictions, to us in our Privy Council." Here then waa the root from which sprung our. present Constitution. In the above extract it will be observed, that in the Patent constituting the Government of Quebec, allusion is made to " a CounciU" and that the Governor, with the advice of such Cotincil, might summon and call a General Assembly, '•in such manner arid form as is used and directed in those Colonies and Provinces in America which are under dur im- mediate government." Now it would scarcely be cbntended that the Council thus created by the King* could be respcssible to any other power than himself. There was not at that time, nor for years afterwards, any representative body in the Colony; and it might be further i;ea)arked, that had an Assembly been convened in pursuam;^ of the piQweif .contained in the C ' 1^ •^t 34 •^^ W I m r jii I procltmation, it (the Asacmbly) was to be constituted aa in the " other Colonie$ and Proitince$ in America," and it doea not oppear that it was to be clothed with greater powers than they poftscssed. No Aeaenibly, however, was ever called under the authority of the proclamation, and Canada continued to be governed by a military officer, assisied by a Council, until the year 1774. ror eleven years an Executive Council did exist, clearly and positively irresponsible to any power but the Crown, and pos. eesied too of powers greatly transcending those of the present Council, for it appears by the 4th section of the Act 14th Geo. III. ch. 83, that with the Qovernor it had power to enact laws by which the inhabitants of the Colony were bound. This Act, the 14th Geo. II!. was the first passed by the British Parliament giving a settled form of government to Canada, and in it allusion was made to the existence of a Council, pos- sessing the powers just mentioned. That Act authorized His Majesty to appoint a certain number of persons as Legislative Councillors, who, when appointed, should hold their offices for life ; and ordained that the laws and ordinances passed by them, and assented to by the Governor, on behalf of the King, should supersede all ordinances previously made by the Governor and Executive Council. The Executive was not, howe jr, done away with; on the contrary, it continued to exist to advise the Governor; and by an ordinance passed in the year 1785— by the Legislative Council and Governor, it was constituted a Court of Appeal as in the old Colonies : which ordinance is recognized and confirmed by our Constitutional Act, 31st Geo. III. ch. 31, sec. 34. Before proceeding to examine the pro- visions of the important act last mentioned, it might as well be asked whether the Executive Council of Quebec, between the years 1774 and 1791, could be said to be responsible to any other power than the King for their official conduct? It would be manifest') absurd to say that it was responsible to the people, at a time when ihe people had no voice in the Government. The Governor and the Legislative Council were both appointed by the King; the Executive Council was a body created by the King, which he could continue or suppress at his mere will and pleasure- there being no law or ordinance that required their existence. Being appointed, their duties were defined by the King, and lessened or extended according to his sole decree, unless where particular duties were imposed by ordinance ; and when so, those duties were of a character distinct from those of advisers of the King's Representative. Where, then, should we seek for their responsibility to the people? It could no where be found. (Hear, hear.) If then up to the time of possing the Constitutional Act the Executive Council were alone responsible to the King, the next and most important question tp be decided was, whether by that act their character was changed, — whether in fact, as is now alleged, " The Exec* utive Council of this Province is by the Constitution responsible to the people, and not to the Crown — and like the Cabinet in England thawd go out of office upon a tote or the Assembly, and that the Oovemor is bound ^ their advice, and is not responsible for his acts, any more than the King is for his acts." Those who blindly contended for a principle so dangerous to the peace, welfare, and good government of this Province, would search in vain for support from the great Charter conferred upon its inhabitants for the protection of their liberties. That t»t roiognizef a,Couiicii to be appointed by the King, but it creates no such bod/, tt was manifest that when_the Slat Geo. III. was passed* the BdUsi. Pidlfwi^^ i^a befoie it the ikiog's Proclamation of 1763— the Royal fndth mentit tution royal requir it a C the po ative so pn (Hear that prior '■») «..««; the "other that it was > AMcnibly, nationt and y a Council, 1 did exist, f)» and po8. nt Council, h. 83. that inhabitants as the first ernment to Hincil, po8< Majesty to who, when le laws and n behalf of e Governor done away ernor; and ouncil and Colonies : tional Act, e the pro- be aeked i 1774 and le King for hat it was voice in were both ted by the pleasure— e> Being r extended re imposed itinct from should we be found. tional Act ' next and act their Vhe ExeC' onsible to England 1 that the his acts, contended jvernment It Charter ». That reates no 10 pasaed* 1763-Ui« jn *©• 85 *«» Royal Inatructiona to the Governor— the Act of 14th Geo. III. eh. 83— f nd the ordinances of the Province of Quebec, passed in virtue of the last mentioned act ; each of which was specificaliy referred to in the Consti- tutional Act ; and Parliansent assuming that the King in the exercise of bit royal prerogative would continue a Council which had previously existedi required of it, when created, certain specified duties, but no where making it a Cabinet which by its advice was to govern the Province, and assume the power and reiiponsibility of the Crown,— rendering the King's Represent* ative a mere cipher, subject to its dommation and controul. A prineipio to preposterous as this, could no where be found in the Constitution* (Hear, hear.) Nothing could be more clear than that it never was intended that the Council should have greater powers than were entrusted to it prior to the passing of the Constitutional Act ; which powers were defined in the King's instructions, and in the laws and ordinances then in force in the Colony, passed in pursuance of the powers given by the 14th Geo. IIL Dy an ordinance of the Province of Quebec the Governor and Executive Council were constituted a Court of Appeals, and were continued such by the 34th section of the Constitutional Act— and by another section the Governor was required to act with the advice of his Council in erecting parsonages and endowing them: these are the only duties specijlcallff required of the Council ; all others depend on the will of the Sovereign. If, as is contended, it was meant that nothing could be constitutionally ' done without the advice of the Council, was it to be believed that so ;,; important a principle would have been lefl in doubt by the eminent States* jl men who framed the Constitution? It was inconsistent with common sense «4 to suppose they would have been so blind to their duty. [Hear, hear.] ^;| But in truth, there could be no doubt in the minds of dispassionate and f intelligent men— the Constitution itself gave a plain and distinct negative ■>:. to the assertion, that the Governor is at all times, and upon every public , matter, to consult the Council. It would be admitted that no duty which ■': e Governor has to exercise can be of greater importance than deciding on the Laws presented to him by the other branches of the Legislature for the Royal assent; and it may be fairly argued, that if upon any one point nore than another he stands in need of the advice of a council, it must Y be in coming to a decision on questions which may involve the safety of the I liberties and property of the people of the country ; notwithstanding this, however, he is not to be guided by the advice of his Council, but by the ,: jRoya/ Instruetions. This was a provision of the Constitution itself, ' ^ ihodJod in the ho clauio juit > aiient lu or the advice of ' ''frum time tiicii be for a so for advice, iitained in liio ii were to be lie acted upon ^re then inual )uld bo out of lean, hear.) ^oyal Instruc. t were of the e InstruclionH nd connected mbers of his ing were the ill affh\n relating ! our InBtructiuni) rs from time to r freo from ne in mind, y Governor ferred upon tion. They al Act had en who had f, then, the n were the d, and Go. n their de< reus in the tly repels it ^ the para, f Governor s to believe :ollent man >iiditionally eceived his mada. i branch of lembers to them; An of a mo8( 'Violent— one might say ferocious, character—and he i§ charged with an attempt to change the Constitution, or to prevent Hii Ma* jesty's lubjecta from fully enjoying it, by refusing to surrender hia power and responsibility to the Executive Council ! — but, upon a candid exumination, will any one say that he could have acted dif. ferently from what he has c'one ? Clearly not. Were he now to adopt the views contained in the Report of the Committee, he must place himself in direct opposition to the commands of the Sovereign contained in his Royal Instructions, and by which every preceding Governor had been bound. The real state of the question is this — it is with the King that the House is coming into collision, and not with his representative. If Sir Francis Head be wrong, the error did not originate with him : The King on his throne is the party this attack mii^it alfcct — it is against his royal authority that this House is now contending ; and, to be successful, they must compel him to surrender, us unconstitutional, the powers he has ex* ercised without dispute ever since, and long before, Upper Canada became a portion uf his dominions. For his own part, he (the Sol.< General) earnestly prayed, that, lor the safety, peace, and tranquil. Jity of the country, the attempt now made by the House might fail ; — In its success he sincerely believed the highest interests of the Colony would be sacrificed ; but he hud too much confidence in the wisdom and integrity of Government to suffer himself for a moment to imagine that a scheme so certain to bring destruction on our most valued institutions could succeed ; — something more than blustering language, and insulting resolutions, and abusive reports, must be re* Ported to, in order to obtain so important a change in the system of Our Government as that contended for by the majority of the House. IVith the British nation, hard names and violent conduct would avail but little ; on the contrary, such proceedings would effectually coun- teract the result sought for, especially when they betrayed them, telves, as in the present instance, in public documents emanating from a legislative body whose acts should be marked with dignity, forbearance, and calm reasoning. There were few men whose poli- tical sentiments he more cordially detested than those of Mr. Joseph Hume, of " baneful domination" memory ; but let the Report under e Governor, I individuals, of his unad- 90 far as the le matter be 3 Governor? e good any ie Colony? was a mere le Governor ght be pun. of his argu- impossible ous reason, •y, it would J, and who iC such it the guilty, ^ >■'"• gciiiit;. ended that fitted that I pleasure. *o. 39 *«» How theD would they hold the Council responsible ? To be sure the late Council have said, — " We have laboured under much odium, and we wish to be allowed to tell the people that we are not guilty, when any unpopular act takes place without our advice." Suppose this were granted, would not common candour require that they should tell the people that they did not deserve the credit of a popular act, if done against their advice ? Where would be the obligation of their oath, if, contrary to it, they were thus to " respond to the people." Such a system of responsibility might 'lave peculiar charms for some Hon. gentlemen, but it was really beyond his comprehension to per- ceive its propriety. Just look at the absurdity of the Council commu- nicating with the public whenever their advice was not acted on, and telling the people — " We are not tyrants, but the Governor is a des- pot." Sworn agitators ! (Hear, hear.) However fond of new things reformers might be, and whatever they might declare to the contrary, they did not, they could not wish for such a state of things, if they really had the peace of the country at heart. (Hear, hear.) It had been argued that the Executive Council is here what the Cabinet is at home. Now this was just as absurd, and betrayed the same ignorance of facts, as the declaration in the Report, that the Governor has power to declare war! The Executive Council strictly resembled the King's Privy Council, and it might be worth while to direct attention for a moment to that body, and its powers. Some hon. gentlemen seemed to imagine that the King consults the Privy Council on all occasions ; but in this they were entirely mis- taken. The King could call on his Privy Council or any portion of its members for advice whenever he pleased, and they were bound to give him their assistance whenever required of them, and that too whether they agreed with the general policy of the government or not. The Privy Council, at present, was composed of a great num- ber of gentlemen of different political views, and the King could act with or without their advice. They were altogether differently con- stituted from the Cabinet Ministers, which last held their offices virtu- ally at the will of the House of Commons ; but the changes of the Cabinet do not at all affect the Privy Council. The latter are bound by their oath to give their advice in any case in which it may be asked, but His Majesty is not obliged to ask it ; but he may send for other persons, if he pleases, and consult them, and then act according to the best of his judgment. During this discussion there had been various authorities quoted on the other side, and among others, that of Lord Stanley had been adduced ; now, he was also willing to refer to that able and honest nobleman's opinion, given when he was a member of the Cabinet. country— advising the Governor, but not responsible to him, and forming a Council against whose opinion as well as with it, he may act— and subject also to the controu! of thit Treasury here as auditing and passing the accounts of the Province, so far as the Jurisdiction of the Treasury extends." "B f'li i ih'iiij ■m ', . I ! ■■■* So much for the opinion of Lord Stanley when a Cabinet Minis, tert and when it became necessary for him to inform himself of the constitutional dutiee and powers of the Executive Council. It will scarcely be found to favour the notion that the Executive Council are responsible to the people rather than to the Crown ; and far less will it establish the opinion, that the Governor is bound by the Con. stitution to consult them on those affairs not specified in the Consti. tution or the King'» Instructions, except when he may think it proper and necessary to do so. He would next adduce that of the Hon. James Stuart, late Attorney General of Lower Canada, a very emi. nent and able lawyer, who says, that " it would, in his opinion, be better if the Council were more frequently consulted ;" but he never intimated, that the Constitution required them to be consulted on all affairs. He (the Sol. General) knew not how often the Executive Councillors were consulted on general affairs; but he knew that when they were, they were bound to give their honest advice, and the Governor bad the same right to act upon it, or to decline following it, that His Majesty had with regard to the advice of his Privy Council. If this were not the case, the Governor would be the mere passive tool of his advisers, and, according to the system against which he was contending, they, the Council, must be equally the tools of the majority of the Assembly. Such a system would annihilate the kingly authority. (Hear, hear.) Such was not the Constitution of England, or of this Province ; but the blind theory of the hon. member for Lenox and Addington. It was much to be lamented that hon. gentlemen did not think, and examine, before they rushed into such absurdities. It was still more remarkable that the late Executive Councillors, who had thrown the affairs of the Province into such confusion, should have imagined that, con. sistentlv with their oath of secrecy, they might insist upon being consulted upon all occasions, and then proclaim to the people the result of their deliberations. (Hear, hear.) Another argument hnd been adduced, which had not a little astonished him. He alluded to the reference which had been made to the administration of Gov. ernor Simcoe, who had been eulogized as the best Governor that had ever been appointed to the Province. He ((he Sol. Gen.) was as ready as any other hon. gentleman to admit, that General Simcoe was a most excellent man ; and he would be the last to detract from his well earned merits. When in England lately, he was highly gratified, and much affected, on observing a siplendid monument which had been erected to the memory of that gallant ofiicer, by the gentlemen of Devonshire, in the Cathedral Church of Exeter, bearing a highly honourable and appropriate inscription, and orna- menled with devices commemorative of his valuable services during the American Revolution, and while Governor of Upper Canada. But could any person prove that he had administered the Govern. Ment differently from his successors, in the point which was that ^ ' 1 #' 'ftbinet Minis, limself of the >ncil. It will utive Council ; and far less I by the Con. n the Consti. link it proper of the Hon. a very emi. » opinion, be but he never suhed on all e Executive 3 knew that •'•ce, and the le following >f his Privy >uld be the the system t be equally stem would vas not the )lind theory nuch to be ine, before remarkable J affairs of that, con. ipon being people the ument had le alluded >n of Gov. ernor that en.) was al Simcoe ract from as highly nonument fficer, by f Exeter, ind orna. Bs^ during Canada, Govern, was that '1. < t i % n "^ 41 •^^ day the subject of debate ? No, it was impossible. He would refer hon. gentlemen to the Council books, and ask them whether Gov. ernor Simcoe consulted his Council on all affairs? The result of such an examination would be fatal to the argument which hon'ble gentlemen had attempted to bring to bear upon Sir Francis Head. Look at the other public records of the Province. Governor Simcoe had assented to laws, summoned parliaments and dissolved them, issued proclamations dividing the Province into Districts, (certainly one of the most important powers ever entrusted to a Governor) ; and all this without any mention being made of the advice of the Council. It was probable that he might have conversed on these subjects with his old friends and companions-in-arms, by whom he was surrounded in this country, and the Councillors appointed ; but it could never be shown that the Council was to assist him on all occasions : the instructions delivered to him, as has been, shown, made this unnecessary. The same observations would apply to the administration of General Hunter, Mr. Gore, and indeed every succeeding Governor. Yet it was now declared, in order to bring odium upon Sir Francis Head, and to induce him, by intimidation, to yield up to irresponsible advisers one of the most important prerogatives entrusted to him by his Sovereign, that he is, in this particular, taking s: stand never before assumed by his predecessors. (Hear, hear.) But bold assertions could not, in this day, be passed off on the country as facts, and hon. gentlemen would find this to be the case before this question was settled. It had been contended, that Governor Simcoe said we had the very image and transcript of the British Constitution. He (the Sol. Gen.) would say we had more ; (hear, hear;) even the Constitution itself, except such portions of it as we had refused to receive. Every part and parcel of the British Constitution that was necessary for the practical purposes of good government in this Province had been extended to it. The British Constitution, consisting of King, Lords, and Commons, each branch possessing its peculiar rights, powers and prerogatives, and the laws and institutions of the Empire, were not confined to Great Britain and Ireland, — their influence reached throughout all the widely extended dominions of the British Empire, and shed their protecting power and blessings to the remotest portion of the realms and possessions of our Sove- reign : and the people of Upper Canada are as much protected by that Constitution as if they lived in an English County, Nay, morp, for the British Parliament had given up a portion of its legitimate powers, and imparted them to these Colonies. Thus the Provincial Legislature had power to make laws, without any interruption or interference on the part of Great Britain, except where such laws would militate against the general interests, or any of the great constitutional principles, of the Empire. Such a check it would of course be oecesbary to preserve, so long as we remain a Colony. f :i''l! 1^ t,Oi 4<2 «^ Besides this, we are under the powerful protection of the British Crown ; and were our rights to be infringed by any nation or power on earth, the arm of mighty England would at once be raised for dur defence, and to protect us from injury or insult. (Hear, hear.) Yes, he would ask, who provides fleets and armies for our protection ? —who erects forts and constructs canals at an expense of millions for our benefit? — who gives protection to our trade, and exclusive privileges to our commerce? — who nurses and cherishes all our institutions until we shall be able to manage and bear the expenses of them ourselves? It was the Parent State ; it could not be denied that all these blessings flow from the practical working of the British Constitution, and that, so far as was compatible with our Colonial relation/we had the full benefit of that Constitution. In our local Legislature, we had the principles of King, Lords, and Commons. We had trial by jury — the habeas corpus Act — and every other privilege essential to the protection of life and property. It should be further recollected, that we thus possess the laws and protection of the British Government without its expenses ; so that it is true, as Sir Francis Head has asserted, that though we may not have the exact image and transcript of the British Constitution, the only point of essential difference is as it respects its expensive arrangen™«;nt and machinery. The first act of the Provincial Legislature, which in its constitu- tion resembles the Imperial Parliament, and is a sort of imperium in imperioy was to adopt all the English laws, except the Poor and Bankrupt laws ; the former happily being unnecessary in a country where honest industry will generally suffice to secure a competency of wealth and comfort. The Court of Chancery, and other impor. tant institutions of England, we can have whenever we wish to avail ourselves of them. Indeed, it was clear that this Province possessed the advantages of the British Constitution, with many additional blessings, without any of its burthens. He would now again pass to the question of the responsibility of the Government. If, by that term, it was meant that the Lieutenant Governor should be responsible to every individual in the Province, he would prove that he is so. (Hear, hear.) Yes, and he would prove in the most satisfactory manner that the responsibility con. tended for by some hon. gentlemen is a mere shadow, a thing of nought, compared with that which really exists, according to the iaws and constitution of this Province. As long ago as in the reign of William III. it appeared that some of the Colonial Governors did not always conduct themselves with propriety, and an Act was passed which, as it was short, he would beg leave to read : ' : fH' i; ' " Wuereag a due punishment is not provided foi aeveral crimes and ofibnces committed out of this His Majesty's realm ofEngland, whereof divers Governors, Lieutenant Governors, Deputy Covernon, or Coinihanden-in-chief of platitktions and colonies within His Mojesty's dominiona be British or power raised for ar, hear.) •otectioh ? r millions exclusive s all our expenses >e denied le British Colonial our local Emmons. ry other t should •otection is true, lave the ily point »gen™«;nt ionstitu. ^rium in )or and country )etency impor. to avail ssessed Jitional >ility of ttenant )vince, would Y con. ling of to the ; some s with would tted out Deputy minioM ^1 iO« 43 »^ bejrottd the teu, htve taken advantage, and have not been deterred from oppreiiiag Hie Majeatjr'e ■ubjecte within tlieir reapective governmenui and command!, nor from committing several olber great crimes and offencea ; not deeming themeelvefl punialiable for ttie nme here, nor accountable for such their crimes and offences to any person within their respective govemmeBts and eamr mands : for remedy whereof, be it enacted by the King's Host Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritua! and Temporal, and Commons, in Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, That if any Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Deputy Governor, or Commander-in-chief of any plantation or colony within His Majesty's dominions beyond the seas, shall after the first dny of August, one thousand seven hundred, be guilty of oppressing any of His Majesty's subjects beyond the seas, within their respective governments and commands, or shall be guilty of any other crime or offence, contrary to the laws of this realm, or in force within their respective governments or commands, such oppressions, crimes, and offences, shall be enquired of, heard and determined, In His Majesty's Court of King's Bench, here in England, or before such Commissioners, and in such county of this realm, as shall be assigned by His Majesty's Commis- sion, and by good and lawful men of the same county, and that such punishment shall be inflicted on such offenders, as are usually inflicted for offences of lilie nature committed here in England."* Let it be remembered, that the Act he had just read was passed when the present United States formed part of the British Empire, —when there were Legislative bodies in those colonies, similar to those in Upper Canada. But if the Executive Councils had been Cabinets, and responsible for the acts of the Governors, why was such a law passed ? It would have been the height of absurdity* The Act shows plainly that the responsibility rests upon the Gov- ernor, and that he cannot be allowed to shelter himself under any pretended responsibility to his Council ; and this Statute is in force at this day. He (the Sol. Gen.) would grant that a Governor could not be prosecuted in this country: and why? Because, as Lord Mansfield says, if he could, he might be imprisoned ; and thus the colony be without a Governor, and the power and authority of the Crown be destroyed. But what of this ? He can be prosecuted in England, and tried like any other individual by a jury of his couqtry. In the year 1774 a Governor Mostyn was prosecuted, by a person of the name of Falrigas, and a verdict of ,j£3000 rendered against him for an act which would have been, perhaps above any other strictly illegal acts, considered excusable. It was for imprisoning a man who had been accused of stirring up treason and rebellion in the colony. (Hear, hear.) Here was proper responsibility, and proper redress ; and Lord Mansfield in pronouncing the judgment of the Court declared, — '* That a Governor was not that sacred character that an action would not lie against bim for ,an Illegal act committed by him within his Government— but that for many reasons, if an action did not lie against any other man, for an injury done, it should most emphatically lie agabst the Governor— but that he must be tried in England to see whether he bad exercised the power delegated to him legally and properly; or whether he bad abused it in violation of the laWs of England, aad the trust reposed in bim/' It was not pretended that this gentleman had been adv4sed to do what he had done by his Cpt^ncil ; and if he had set up su^h an ex- cuse it would have availed him nothing. If. however, it had been in his power to shelter himself under the advice of his Council, the con- sequence would have heen thyt th,^ man who had su^taii^ed a grievous injury would have been without any remedy, — ^an admirable proof of > the doctrine laid down by His Excellency wa8 altogether noVel ; hut when, he would iMk, had responsibility been claimed at any former period of our history by the Council, or by anybody on their behalf? Where was the proof of it ? (" Where is it not ?" from Dr. Morrison.) The hon. and learned gentleman asks, " where is it not ?" He (the Sol. Gen.) was really surprised. Why was there no noise made about it last Session ? Had not that hon. gentleman himself, and those with whom he acted, declared that the Council was a perfectly irresponsible and useless body? Perhaps the hon. gentleman has forgotten this, but his memory should presently be refreshed. When the Act was rassed, making a permanent provision of j£500 annually for the sup. port of the Council, it was asked often during the debate, and particu- larly by the Ion. member from Lenox and Addington, " What is the use of such a body, responsible to no one for their conduct ?" He (the Sol. Gen.) had no doubt but those arguments would be found ia the speeches of hon. members, as reported at that time in the public papers ; but now they seem to have acquired new light. (Hear, hear.) To show that some changes of opinion had occurred, he would read an extract from the famous Grievance Report of last Session:— . "*-* *■ It appears that it is tiie duty of tlie Lieutenant Governor to talce the opinion of the Execa tive Council only in suck eases sa lie shall be required to do so by his Instructions from the Imperial Oovernnunt, and in such other cases as he may think jit." Now, he particularly desired to call the attention of the hon. mem* her, [Dr. Morrison,] to the fact, that his own name, the name of T. D. Morrison, was stuck to that Report. Yes, there he was, saying the very thing which he now declares, and almost swears, is not true. (Hear, hear,, and laughter.) The hon. gentleman who fabricated that Report knew well that the Council, as well as the Governor, was only responsible to the King, and that such was the Constitu- tion. He (the Solicitor General,) felt an unwillingness to refer to the extraordinary conduct of the late Councillors, with all of whom, ex- cept one, he had ever been, and hoped still to continue, on terms of friendship and intimacy. It was a maxim with him, never to allow political feelings to destroy private friendship ; he had become per- fectly callous to the attacks made upon himself by political oppo., nents, and should never suffer them to affect him. But his public duty required him to refer to the letter which had been read in that House, and in the .Legislative Council, setting forth the terms on wjhich those gentlemen took office. It was asserted, in the Report under consideration, that that letter, as read in the two branches of the Legislature, had been altered from the original dtzh shown to. those gentlemen by His Exoeilencyi and that it did not contain the terms on which they accepted office. (Hear.) But, if this were true, would those gentlemen have taken offide under euoh circum- it ^: uo^ 4Xi *'0>% stances? If gentlemen, so distingushed for acuteness and delibera- tion, had seen additions of such importance made to the original drall, would they not have returned the letter to His Excellency, and have retired, saying — " No Sir, these are not the terms on which we ac* cepted office ?" Or if they did not wish to embarrass the Govern, ment by retiring, could it be supposed that they would have put the letter into your hands, Mr. Speaker, and in the hands of a friend and member of the other House, for the purpose of having it read, as it was by you, with much emphasis and apparent satisfaction, for the express purpose of shewing the conditions upon which they had ac* cepted office, if it did not truly describe those conditions ? He (the Sol. Gen.) was bound to assume that the assertion made in the Re* port, was Onauthorised, because, he could not for a moment suppose ;» that the hon. Speaker of this House would have consented to read v| to the House, on behalf of his most intimate friends, as an authentic ' f document, one which he must have known was not so. He felt very 'I sensibly the embarrassing situation in which the hon. Speaker must be placed on the present occasion, and would most gladly sit down ^.ip in order that a motion migh be made for the House to go into Com- mittee, and thus allow the Speaker an opportunity to express his views on this affiiir. Indeed, it was most unfair in the majority of the House not to go into Committee ; as by the present course, the House was deprived of the valuable legal opinions of the hon. Spea« ker on so important a subject. But to him (the Sol. Gen.) it ap. peared perfectly clear that as the Speaker was the intimate friend of the late Councillors, and had been consulted by them at every stage of the proceedings which led to their taking office, he must have been, by direct information, or otherwise, aware of the incorrectness of that letter, if it were incorrect ; and therefore, if it were so, he would not have permitted himself to be the medium of communica- ting it to the House. Hence, he [the Sol. General] was bound to believe that that letter contained the real principles under which those gentlemen became Councillors. Now, he would ask, if they accepted office with an understanding that their advice was to be limited to those al^airs on which His Excellency might feel it neces- sary to consult them, how could they have understood the Instructions in that unlimited sense in which they have construed them in their address to His Excellency ? [Hear, hear.] There was a something of mysteriousness hanging Over the whole affair which he could not comprehend. It had been stated, that after His Excellency received the address from the Conncil, it was #rOi(ig for him to require them to renounce their prtncipTes or retire ttom office. But how could His ExceUency do otherwise ? He replied to them in a document in which he gave his expoiitioii of tfaet}sf!!^:ti!iional powers of the Council, and then, be, ^* substfiiee,' si&iAi^-^*< Tour viefws and mine are directly at Va- mnde ()fii« fiM^Hi(^liei)0t;^iitutional l«v— it is impdiMible that 1 '"I *o» 47 •<>» ■t'^:' ^^ ^ m mit we can act harmoniously i|iider such circumstances — you must there* fore calmly weigh the views which I have laid before you, and if you cannot conscientiously accede to them, I cannot conscientiously give them up, and therefore we must part on good terms." Had His Excellency dou^ otherwise, he would have been justly con- demned. It had been stated by the hon. member for Lenox and Addingtoa that the Executive Council were willing to withdraw the paper they had addressed to His Excellency when they discovered the difficul- ties it was likely to lead to ; and that it was proposed to erase it from the Council books, and that the Clerks of the Executive Coun- cil had been sworn to secrecy on the subject. All that he could say was, that if this statement was true, it involved very serious chargiif against these gentlemen : in the first place, he knew of no authority under which the Councillors could administer such an oath to the Clerks, and if no such authority existed, then the oath was an illegal and a profane oath ; and in the second instance, the proposal to erase from the records of the Council the document they had so delibe| lately signed, if made as asserted by the hon. member, (which he was bound to discredit) was most reprehensible : and he must say that if such a proposal was made to His Excellency, and he had not forthwith dismissed those who made it from office, he would not have performed his duty ; unless indeed they had been convinced of their error of judgment, and on that account wished to retract their opin- . ions. To continue them as Councillors, they retaining the opinions they had expressed in opposition to the Governor would have been objectionable indeed. Suppose by way of illustration, that two or three Clergymen should write an elaborate document to their fiishop, declaring their disbelief of the great truths of Christianity, and stat- ing their reasons, thinking thereby to convert him to their views, and that the Bishop should reply at length to their ejections, and inform , them if they persisted in their opinions they must be suspended, as ho could not labour in connexion with persons holding such sentiments ; suppose that when they see they are in consequence likely to I0S9 their livings and be expelled the Church, they should request per- mission to recall their declaration, at the same time retaining their opinions. What would be the duty of theijp Bishop 7 Evidently tq say, "No, gentlemen, it will not be sufficient that you withdraw th^ testimony of your guilt, you must retract your opinions, you must; declare that they were wrong, and that you no longer retain tbeii|» before I can consent to continue you in ^pur ifi|C^ed office." Now, the affair with the Council was precisely 8im4^f^Mf te'^iil^ those gentlemen to believe that they^ ha^ pvopoaecl JiQ^ withdraw thak *©• 4(5 *^ If < I .1 r , and he was astonished that such an asaertion should be made. If true, nothing in his opinion, could more fully prove their unfitness for the confidential and honourable situation of Executivii Councillors than that they were capable of making such a proposal. A great deal had been said about His Excellency having garbled the documents sent to tho Council. It appeared that, through a clerical error, the word " these" had been omitted, and on this ground His Excellency is charged with a laxity of moral principle. To say nothing of the unjustifiable grossness of this charge, it was really astonishing that hon. gentlemen could not discover, that, if His Excellency had designed to garble his extracts, it would have been as easy a matter for him to have done so the second time as the first, and thus not have exposed himself. Such accusations were no credit to those who made them. Such charges might, with much stronger semblance of truth, be brought against the au. thors of the Report under discussion. A most laboured effort had been put forth by the Committee to impeach the character of His Excellency in reference to the arrangement which had been made between two of the Councillors concerning the administration of the government in case of the death of His Excellency. As it respected the arrangement itself, it was altogether unnecessary. It appeared to have been made under the impression that the senior councillor must otherwise become the administrator of the govern, ment m the case supposed. But that was a mistake. When Mr. Smith was sworn into office there were two older Councillors than himself, Mr. Buby and Chief Justice Powell ; neither of whom was forbidden by the Constitution to administer the Government. But no man is obliged to assume the office. He would now state the facts of this case, and leave every honest mind to judge whether there was any foundation for the abuse which had been heaped upon His Excellency. One of the Councillors, before they were siDom into office — (let that be remembered) — suggested that, in case of his Excellency's death, the administration of the government should devolve on the hon. Mr. Allan. To this Mr. Sullivan readily assented, being anxious to be free from so great responsibility. And to place his wish beyond doubt, it was suggested by Mr. Sul. livan that a writing should be drawn and signed by him, declaring that, in the event of the Government devolving on a Councillor, he would resign and make way for Mr. Allan. This conversation took place in presence of His Excellency, wlio was requested to draw an instrument to that effect. He did so, and it was signed by Mr. Sullivan; and Mr. Allan received it, and there the matter rested. It was no official document, — it was not done in Council^ nor was any record made of it. It was a 'private arrangement between two gentlemen, with respect to which the Lieutenant Gover- nor was perfectly indifierent, [Hear, hear !] Now, what does the R^ort state ? It states that when His Excellency was addressed by m # • « *.o* 49 *'0^ f '''J •t the House for information, he intimated — (mark the expression )— he " intimated that he knew of no such agreement, and that in fact no document of such a nature exisltd.^^ Now, this was plainly a misrepresentation. His Excellency intimated no such thing ; and to prove this, it will be most satisfactory to read the answer Hit Excellency did give to the Address of the House for information on this subject. It is as follows : — " Okntlbmin— I herewith tranflmit as much of the information desired by the Hoase u X poaaess. " I have entered into no bond or agreement, of any sort, with my present Executive Council, •nd I do not poBsess, nor does tliere exist in Council, any document of such a nature, betwew two or more of the said Council." This answer was m the possession oF the cotnmittee at the time tbegi made the unfounded assertion contained in their Report. Any man of inge- nuous disposition — any man who was not desirous of perverting the truth, would have at once seen that His Excellency, merely wished to inform the House, that officially he had no controul over any document such as was referred to, but that he by no means intended to convey the idea, that '* no document of such a nature existed ;" on the contrary, he very plainly inti* mated the reverse, and to prove that he had no objection to its being made public, and that he was ready to assist in its disclosure, he permitted Mr. SuVivan to appear before the Committee and state every thing he knew respecting the matter. Had His Excellency desired concealment he could have prevented this : and the Committee would then have been left without this new topic, upon which to assail the Lieutenant Governor. But, as an honest man, he had no desire to conceal truth — all he asked, was, that the truth should be plainly told, and no false interpretations placed upon it. Much stress was laid upon Mr. Sullivan having expressed an unwillingness at first to stale who drew up the document. But why was he unwilling? Undoubtedly, because he suspected the dishonourable use that would be made by the Committee of that information. (Hear, hear.) But it would be a mere waste of time for him to attempt further to show how utterly impossible It was for any imputations to be fairly cast upon the character of His Excellency with regard to that transaction. What he had said had not been for the sake of convincing the Committee, or (hose who were already determined to sustain the Report, and all the slanders contained in it ; but to show to the country the real nature of a transactioa which had been so shamefully misrepresented, tor party purposes. CHear.) He had detained the house a long time, but he hoped that the vast importance of the subject would form for him a sufficient apology. He had felt a deep and thrilling interest in the question before the bouse, and although he had no doubt as to the course which the majority would pursue, and (hat it would be of no avail for him to argue against the decision which had been already determined on, yet that regar'l which every patri- otic man must feel for the prosperity of the country in which the interests of himself and his posterity are at stake, rendered it impossible that he should say less than he had. The subject was an exciting one, but be had endea- voured to confine himself to a deliberate consideration and calm discussion of its true principles and merits, and of those prominent features of ihe Report which, from their connexion with the main question, seemed to possess some importance. He hoped that he had accomplished what be proposed at the commencement of his observations. He had noticed the io« RO ■ f. w I- U ' i he . .1 origin of the Executive Councili— be tied pointed out (heir legfitimate fUndtioni, and how far their exiitence wae idenlifiifd with the Conilituiion. He liad ihown the real respon^ibilily of ColonUI Government ; and had made it obvioui that the •vetem advucated by the lale Council and in the Report, if indeed it nil|;ht bo called a a)itenn, would completely remove that reiponiibility from where alone it could safely rest, and would introduce hi ilf itead a merely ideal responflibility, Bubvertinir (he beat intereats of the country, and annihilating in il every veatigu of British rule. (Hear, hear*) And now he would close liis rcmarka by expreaain^ his deen regret that men should be found occupying (he important and diatinguished placet of repreaentativos of a patriotic people, who could abuse the truat com- mitted to them, and avail therostlve^ of thfiir parliamentary privilegea to traducA the character, and misrcprecent the conduct, of as honest, upright, diainteretittid, strai^httor^vard, able, and truly patriotic a man ns ever was ilitruated by Britain'a Monarch with the government of any Colony of the Empire, — (Hear, hear J— a roan whose only study waa to mnintaio akke inviolate the prerogativea of hia Sovertign, and the indeieaaible Hghta of the people, (hear, b«ar ;) whoae moat ardent deaire waa, to carrjr oat in all their extent the bonevclent designs of one of the mo8t indulgent and patriotic Kings that ever wore the firiii.«h Crown, (tipar, hear;) and who still would persevere in accomplishing the important work entrusted tv him, amidst all the obstacles which might be thrown in hia way. (Hear, hear.) Yea, auch was the individual against whom all the vituperative lan- guage of thitaat9) and who risked their liveij and 1' «^ 51 *o* «tcrificed their property, in dtfence of firitiih principle! ; yee, many of ibein had fuught and bled for the ial(e of the privileK«i which they then enjoyed under merely chartered government*. But (he British Govern* menl, with that nobleneaa by which it has ever been distinguished, gener* ously decreed a reward to their loyalty by increasing and greatly extending the privileges they had previously enjoyed, and conferred upon this Pro- vince that contlitutioo which it v/as the object of the Report under considera- tion to subvert and destroy under the false pretence of supporting it. [Hear, henr.] Yes, the object could not be concenled, and the country will pro- nounce an equitHble sentence on its authors and abettors. The powerf t^nlrusted to the Coloniul Legislature were never intended to be exercised in the manner now contemplated. It never was supposed that an effort would be made to withhold the necessary supplies for carrying on Iha Government, because of a difference v( opinion having arisen between the Governor and the majority of the House on a conslitutionni Question ;— and on a question which the Imperial Government alone could aeci(le. What was the meaning of such a step ? It was saying most distinctly, not to the Governor, for he had not power to grant what was demanded of him, but to the King, " Unless this question oe decided according to our dictation we will refuse to co-operate with the Government, we will array ourselves against the constitutional powers of the King's representative, or in other words, against the King himself." CHear, hearj Such was the language spoken by the measure, and although it might be denied, it could not Be disproved. A certain 8] stem is laid down by our Reformers in the Assem- bly, and it is designated responsible government ;-^ii is asserted that it ia the system acknowledged by the constitution, and the Governor is required to act upon it. He dissents, and states that he cannot view the constitu- tion in that light, and therefore cannot, in accordance «vith his oath, administer the government on such principles ; but he points to the imperial government as th> ,nly tribunal competent to award a decision, and to that decision ht^ declares himself willing respectfully to bow. Why then does not the House wait for that decision 1 If hon. members were wil- ling to abide by it. and to uphold the Constitution as it exists, why stop the Supplies? Such a step is evidently an attempt to intimidate the Govern- naent, and it loudly declares to the King, "you must either decide that our construction of the constitution is right, or you must make such changes as wUt accord with the system we have demanded ; and if you will not, we will not be governed by you." [Hear, hear.] Suppose the Govern- ment should decide that that system cannot h*' established without destroy- ing all colonial di'pendency, what then must be done ? The answer waa obvious :— but there were more than 150,000 men, loyal and true, withib ibis province, who would never consent to Imve the authority of the Sove- reign trampled under foot ; and never, without their concurrence, could the moral power of the Government be put down. [Hear, hear.] If the refusing to vote the Supplies would not open the eyes of tlie people, they would deserve to be slaves ; — not the slaves of the British Monarch, for such a relation could not exist within the boundaries of his Empire, — (hear, hear,) — but the slaves of the present majority of the House of Assembly, whose eager grasping after uncontrolled power sufficiently proved bow utterly disqualified they were for possessing it. [Hear, hear,] He was but an hum- ble individual, and stood in a minority in that House ; but, of that minority he was proud on the present occasion, — and he felt assured the cause he and his estimable friends were now advocating would be found to be the cause of the people^ and that he was expreasiog the views of those trho ^" •o 52 «<>< Constituted the worth, and the intelligence, and the patriotism of the Gountr}^<< Whatever might be the result of that evening's discussion, and he had no expectation but that the Report would be adopted, it would afford him unmixed satisfac'ion to (he latest period of his life, that he, and his respected friends around him, had lifted up their voices, and recorded their votes, against a measure so fraught with most disastrous consequences to the Pro- vmce, and so directly at variance with every principle which ought (o find a lodgncent in a Briton's heart. (Tho hon. and learned gentleman resumed his seat amidst loud cheers from (he crowded galleries, and the space below the bar.) '',*• ,, I. vfh'l: Mr. ROBLIN said, that, with regard to the document which had been spoken of between Mr. Sullivan and Mr. Allan, he was as well satisfied as any thing could be, when the Governor's reply was read, that he had been misinformed ; and he was very much astonished when Mr. Sullivan told the committee there was such a paper. — But it is argued there is no such paper in Council. That was a way of getting along that he was not used to. But, leaving that matter, he would come to the question of responsible government. The constitution recognized " such Executive Council as shall be ap- pointed by His Majesty for the cffairs of the Province," and there- fore he argued that the Act created an Executive Council. The hon. and learned Solicitor-General stated that the Report said the Governor should consult the Council upon all the affairs of the Go- vernment. Now, it said no such thing ; but the Royal Instructions said so, and also that the senior Councillor should administer the government in case of the death of the Governor. The simple question was, Ought we not to have a responsible Executive Coun- cil in this Province 1 Why not? He could not see how it was go- ing to curtail the prerogative of the Crown, as it had been argued. Was the Lieutenant-Governor to have more power than the King himself? (Hear, hear !) He had an Executive Council, just as the King had his Privy Council ; and from the Privy Council the King selected his Cabinet Council, whose advice he was to take upon all affairs of the government. (Hear, hear !) Whenever they gave advice, the King acted in accordance with it, so long as he retained them in office. The acts of the Government were the acts of the Council, and in that way their opinions went forth to the country. But, if they did not suit the views of a majority of the representatives of the people, the Council must go out of office ; for it was contrary to all the principles of good government that two bodies should be constituted to act together who at the same time held views contrary to each other ; just as the good book said, a house divided against itself could not stand. It was not required that if the Governor advised with^the Council he should act with that advice ; but it was wished to know who did any thing for th« good of the country and who did not. If they were paid £500 a. yeftf) he would like to know what good they did for it* If they I *©» 53 *^ e counti7 stitutional to stop the Supplies; but they had the opinions of Mr. Stanley and Lord Glenelg against the opinion of the hon. and learned Solicitor, which he was inclined to think was quite as good authority. If a Governor was sent out here, who, under all the circumstances, could not administer the government according to the wishes of the representatives of the people, he (Mr. R.) would say, give us another Governor or another House of Assembly. Ho had thought seriously upon the question of withholding the supplies, and had come to the conclusion that it was best to do so at the pre- sent time ; for then they would bring matters to an issue at once, and see who was right. The question of course would be referred to His Majesty's Government ; and they would have to recal the Governor or turn out the Assembly as often as they were elected, until they agreed. The Executive Council ousrht. in his ooinion. to be responsible to the people ; he would not take upon him to say they were so at present, but they should be so, that it might be known who it was^ that gave the advice by which the Government was conducted. At »*1 J-' I ■.:fii\ m i:iJ>.;4 «o» 64 "^ preient it was never known whether it was by the advice of the Council, or. eome other persons, or whether the Governor acted as he pleased himself. His Excellency had provoked this discussion, and " dragsed the question into day-light ;" and in one of his do- cuments he had admitted that he should advise with his Council, for he says he cannot divulge which of the members of his Council ad- vises him, which plainly implied that he should consult them. If he agreed with the Council, he might in his public documents say, " I have done so with the advice of my Executive Council ;" or, " on my own responsibility," if he disagreed with them. There was nothing in his oath which in his (Mr. R.'s) opinion prevented him from doing this, although he might not divulge which of the members gave him the advice by which he acted. His Excellency says, " whenever embarrassment requires it he must draw upon their sterling fund," meaning their advice ; that is, he will in ordi. nary affairs think and act for himself; but whenever, perhaps by his own unadvised mismanagement, the afl^airs of the government get into embarrassment, he will ask their advice, that they may bear all the odium of the measures he has pursued. Then, he goes on to say, "if they faithfully honour his bills, they fulfil their duty to their oath, their Sovereign, and to him." What he meant by ho- nouring his bills, he, (Mr. R.) being a plain farmer, might not un- derstand so well as some others, but he believed it meant this, — when one merchant draws a bill upon another, his friend pays it according to instructions received from the drawer; and His Excel- lency must, therefore, mean that if the Council approved of the " remedial measures" which he told the House he was preparing, they discharged their duty. He could not agree with His Excel- lency in this limited interpretation of the powers and duties of the Executive Council as they were set forth in the Constitutional Act and the King's Instructions, for th'j latter say, " You are to commu. nicate to them such and so many of these our Instructions, &c. and all such others from time to time as you shall find convenient for our service." What did the word convenient mean, upon which so much stress had been laid ? Not that it would be inconvenient to ask their advice upon all occasions ; but the better to enlighten their judgments and inform their minds, in order that *< impartiality*' might be assisted by " knowledge," he should communicate to them the views of His Majesty's Government as often as he might find it convenient to enable them to come to a judicious and proper deci. sion. That was what he considered the word •* convenient," in the Instructions, to mean. The Governor, at the conclusion of his reply, tells the Council, that " to the opinions they have expressed he can never subscribe." What were those opinions ? Not that they might be allowed to tell the advice they gave, but simply to inform the public when they advised a measure and when they did not. Bat nO| he tella them he will not allow them to do so ; *' The ooun. m comnm. <»• 65 <>* try shall not know whether you advised me in the couniel |^^ pursued or not." ,, ,....,.:. ^^ The adoption of the resolution before the House would decide w^ question whether the Supplies were to be stopped or not. To <^o so he acknowledged was a strong measure, it was the last resource ; but what was to be done ? That House and the Country had addressed His Majesty's Government for the last four or five years, setting forth that there was no Established Church in Upper Canada, and praying that there might be none established and endowed, but that the Clergy Reserves might be devoted to general education. But how had they been respected or answered ? In the last year no less than fifty.seven Rectories had been established and endowed out of those Reserves. Were they to grant the Supplies and again address His Majesty and say, " We pray your Majesty this system may not be continued ?" (Hear.) No ; if there ever was a time, or if there ever could be a proper time, to stop the Supplies, it was now. Let His Majesty's Government be plainly told, " if you will not attend to our representations, we will not support your Govern* taent ;" that was the meaning of stopping the Supplies, and he hoped V luld wake them up to pay attention to our affairs. Whether his ' 'r tituents would approve of the vote he was about to give, he could not tell ; but it never had been any advantage to him to be a repre- sentative of the people, and he was willing cheerfully to retire into private life, if the people would not support him in taking what he willingly acknowledged, was a bold stand — a very important step, but which he thought, all the circumstances of the times required. He had, however, made up his mind on the subject, and was prepared to vote for withholding the Supplies. Mr. PARKE observed, that the principal arguments against a responsible Executive Council in this Province seemed to be, that it would destroy the power of the mother country in the colony. But it should be remembered that England, when she passed our consti- tutional act, reserved to herself the power of regulating our trade and commerce, and retained in her hands the whole patronage of the government. For what was this done? To maintain her controul over the affairs of the colony. But that she should exercise any such controul through the Executive Council, was never intended when the act was passed. That Council was not appointed by any law^ but by the principle upon which all laws were founded, that of safety and protection against oppression; and to take away that check over the Executive Government would be the very essence of tyranny. The Government of Upper Canada must be administered by an Executive Council responsible to the House of Assembly ; for it never could be intended by the people of Great isritain, that theii^ fellow subjects in Upper Canada should be degraded ipto the QQq4|- tioa of slaves. The Governor, we were told» was te^p^jo^l^jle Ua ws>» 56 •'O' Downing Street ; but had they ever been called to account for tyran. nizing over the people ? No ; but they were praised when they exer- cised their power for the interest of those who appointed them„ The hon. and learned Solicitor General said the powers of the Executive Council were derived from the King's Instructions ; but he (Mr. P.) contended that he had no right to give such instructions without Act of Parliament. [Hear, hear.] Mr. no jrON. — After the very severe castigalion which the hon. and learned genlieman from Cornwall (Mr. McLean) has been pleased to bestow upon me for the crime of having been born in the United States, it may be considered presumption in me to say one word upon a subject of this nature. I will give the hon. and learned gentleman all the advantage, and all the honour that he is entitled to, for having made the discovery that a man was disgraced in consequence of hla birth-place. I have seen, Mr. Speaker, men, nay even hon. and learned gentlemen, whose conduct was a disgrace to the high station they held, to themselves and to the country that gave them birth ; [hear, hear,] but that the country should disgrace the man, is a discovery left for no less an honourable, noble, and generous personage than the gentleman from Cornwall to make. That man who is BO lost to the noblest feelings of our nature, as not feel a glow of pride at the mention of his native land, is indeed only tit to become the base and abject slave of such a man as the hon. and learned gentleman has upon this occasion shown himself to be. The law in your Statute book, Sir, has made me eligible to a seat in this House, and the spontaneous and united voice of as intelligent, patriotic, and loyal a people as Upper Canada can boast has done me the honour to send me here, and they expect that I will do my duty to my God, my King, and my Constituents; and, Sir, I shall not shrink from the task upon this occasion, notwithstanding the sneering taunts, which no gentleman would make, but which could have emanated from no other than the hon, and learned member. [Hear, hear.] The hon. and learned gentleman says, grievances are preached continually, which are sickening to the ear — I doubt not, Mr. Speaker, but such cries are sick- ening to the ears of the hon. gentleman, but was he ever known to lend a helping hand to redress those grievances, has he not invariably denied that there existed any grievances ? He has been pleased to laud the people of this Province for their intelligence and discrimination, and warned the majority of this House that the people were loo intelligent and too enlight. ened to be duped by auy artifice, from asserting and maintaining those just rights. Pray, sir, how long since that hon. and learned gentleman has made the discovery 1 Has he not invariably opposed every measure giving the people a voice in the management even of their local affairs? Has he not invariably scouted the idea of consulting the people] — If the records of your journal since the first day of his taking a seat in the House of Assembly, answer the question, among the specimens of his regard for the people you will find his support for the celebrated Gagging Bill, preventing these enlightened and intelligent people from meeting and petitioning for a redress of these grievances. [Hear, hear.] No surer proof however can be given of the march of intelligence in the county which he formerly represented, than that the people very plainly told him they had no further need for his valuable services. [Hear, heur,] With regard to the question lefore you, the hon. and learned Solicitor General, (the only hon. gentleman apposed to it, who had undertaken to use any argument,) had really madt ««» 5T <"^» «ut our case most admirably. The whole drift of his arg^ument was to show us that the Executive Council of this Province^was exactly similar to that body in England called the Privy Council, and he has quoted several authorities to prove this fact. Well, Mr. Speaker, what else do we contend for ; this is all we have ever asserted, and we complain that although a similar body, and consti. tuted for similar purposes, yet they cling to office after having entirely lost the confidence of the people. Yet while the Solicitor admits that we have the " very image and transcript of the British Constitution," His Excellency denies it, — [hear, hear,] — and he is the first person in the Province who has ever done so. Those very hon. gentlemen, who now say it would be the greatest curse that could be inflicted upon this Province, if we had responsible Execu- tive, should refresh their memories before they so loudly proclaimed their own inconsistency. Did not our Address to His Majesty in the last Parliament, respecting the Banks, declare, in the most emphatic language, the necessity of a responsible Government ? did not that address receive the support and the vote of every member in that House ? Let us come a little nearer the present period : let hon. gentlemen look at the Resolution upon which an Address was founded to His Excellency on the 14th of last month, upon the subject of the late Council, which reads as follows : '* Mr. Perry, seconded by Mr. Chas. Ouncombe, moves that it be Resolved, That this House conaidera the appointment of a responsible Executive Council to advise the Lieutenant Governor, nr person administering the government of the affairs of this Pto/ince, to be one of the most bappy and wise features in our Constitution, and essential in our form of government, and ao being one of the strongest securities for a just and equitable adininistration of the govermiitnt, ajid full enjoyment of our civil and religious rights and privileges."— [Hear, hear.] Now, Mr. Speaker, this resolution was adopted after a whole day's debate, and upon which there was a call of the house, and when there were fifty. five members present, (the fullest House we have had during the present session,) and when the yeas and nays were called for, the only members found to oppose it were Messrs. Boulton and Malloch. [Hear, hear.] But, sir, when these hon. and learned gentlemen found that such was not the opinion of Sir F. B. Head, they immediately change their colours, [hear, hear,] and now denounce this very principle as the most absurd and wicked principle ever agitated in this House. What are we to think ? What will the public think of such men and such conduct ? I will ask hon. gentle- men to satisfy their own consciences and the country for this (to uso the mildest term] most gross and flagrant inconsistency, and dismiss from my mind the humiliating reflections which their conduct has created. During the whole discussion, not one argument of my hon. friend from Lenox and Addington [Mr. Perry] has been answer- ed : sir, they are unanswerable, as well as those of my hon. friend from Prince Edward [Mr. Roblin.] I trust, Mr. Speaker, that I feel detply the responsibility of this day's proceedings, cf the vast import. «^ 58 •<>* t'iM \W . ^ ance of the questtoa now before us. We hav« arrived at a moat critiGal juncture in the history of this Province. The fate of this meaaure doubtless decides whether we . e to enjoy the ** very image and transcript of the British Constitution," or whether we are to have a mutilated and degraded one ; whether we are to have a constitu. tional and responsible governmenti possessing the confidence and aflfections of the people, or whether we are to be governed by the arbitrary will of an irresponsible vacillating Executive. We are called upon to protect the sacred rights and privileges for which the brave U. E. Loyalists nobly struggled and nobly bled. Those rights and privileges which are the palladium of our liberties, one of the foremost pillars in the British Constitution. Thoso rights and privileges which form the basis of every free and enlightened government throughout the world, viz. responsibility to the peo- ple. [Hear, hear.] When therefore shall this house assert with independent dignity, a resolute and unequivocal declaration of those sacred rights and privileges secured to us by that Constitution, which, from our earliest infancy, we have been taught to rever- ence and obey ? Wlien, I say, shall we stand forth in its defence, but in the inslant uf its most imminent danger? Low indeed shall we be placed in the scale of human nature if we quietly suffer ourselves to be longer gove: ned by a secret, unknown, and unconsUtutional influence, base in iteelf as it is treacherous in its conse- quences. An administration such as this can only receive the support of those who know no higher and more noble principles to actuate their conduct, than the aspiring to or obtaining some office of emolument, and who are wuiin;^ to obtain and hold them by no worthier tenure than secret influence. Every true friend to his country cannot but admit, however, that a responsible Government, possessing the confidence of the people, is tho ooiy government that can secure the country against the infinite abuses so natural to the possession and exercise of power. Should we unfortunately ever become so unmindful of our interests as to suffer this great bulwark of our Constitution and of our liberty to be wrested from us, we should soon become the miserable and abject slaves of a secret despotism. So long aa t'le Governor is guided by a secret, intriguing, underhand influence, the Executive Council act the part of puppets to some unknown juggler behind the screen. [Hear, hear.] -They are not allowed to consult their own apinions, but must pay implicit homage to those whom they know not, and perhaps whom but to know were but to despise. [Cries of hear, l^ear, hear] The only rule that guides them is a secret mandate which carries along" with it no other alternative than obedience or ruin. What man, who haa the feeling, the honor, the spirit, or the heart of a man, would dioop to such a degraded condition for any official dignity or emolument whatever. Tho Council who would act so dishonorable a part, and the country that would submit to it, would be mutual plagues and curses to each other. What, sir, is the distinction between an absolute and a limited monarchy but that the sovereign in the one is a despot and may do what he pleases ; whild in the other, he is himself subjected to the laws, and consequently not at libc»-ty t« advise with any one who is not responsible tor that advice. The preroga- lives of the Crown are by no means to be exerted in a wanton and arbitrary •«• 69 o* manner. The good of the whole is the exclusive object to which til the branchei of the Legislature and their different powers invariably itliould point. It is undoubtedly the prerogative of the Crown to select the CAimeil, but to secure the blessings of good government that Council must possesa the confidence of the public. That Governor must be bold indeed, who dares to despise and reject the voice of the people, and sbort must be the duration of that administration that is not upheld by the popular will. la there an individual here who feels for his honour, bo lost to every honourable, every patriotic feeling, so regardless of his dearest and most sacred rights and privileges, as to feel callous and indifferent in such a crisis as this ? If there be, then I say that man is unworthy to enjoy, because he cannot duly appreciate the blessings secured to him by that Constitution which has been the glory and the pride of ages. Sir, I fear not the result of this most important crieip, I feel confident that the characteristic spirit of British subjects is still equal to the trial. I trust they will feel as jealous of secret influence as ihey are to open violence. (Hear, hear ) I trust they are not more ready to defend their interests against foreign depredation and insult than to encounter and defeat this midnigtit conspiracy against the constitu. tion. We are now deliberating on the life and blood of our constitution. Give up the point of responsibility to the people, and we seal our own quietus, and are accessary to our own insignificance and destruction. Though we have been most unjustly deprived of our just weight in the constitution, yet if we acquit ourselves honourably to our constituents, to our friends, to our own consciences, and to the public, whose trustees we are, and for whom we act, we shall come out of t!iis struggle honourably and triumphantly. I have too much confidence in the justice and the magnanimity of the British Government to suppose for one moment that they will oppose our wishes — wishes founded so strong in justice, and so dear to our best interests. Whoever wished for the liberty secured to us by the constitution. Who- ever wished for good orovernment, whether he be a whig or a tory, conserva- tive or radical, they should equally unite m wishing for the removal of the present administration, because until this is done there can bo neither freedom ol" constitution nor energy of government. I have seriously reflected on the course I ought to pursue upon this momentous question, and I deliber- ately declare, that I have never in my life supported any measure with a firmer conviction of duty. (Hear, hear.) The glorious cause of freedom, of reform, of civil and religious liberty, and of tiie constitution in its purity, ever has, and ever shall receive my deliberate support. Thus far this course has borne me up, under every aspersion to which my character has been subjected. The resentment of the mean, the aversions of the great, the^ rancour of the vindictive, and the subtilty of the base, the dereliction of friends, and the effijrts of enemies have never succeeded in diverting me from what I believed to be my conscientious duty. [Mr. Norton's speech is copied from the Correspondent and Advocate, and the Reporter of the Guardian perceives that the commencennent of it is a reply to some remarks nnade by Mr. McLean which were not heard by him, and therefore do not appear in the report of that gentleman's speech.] .^, , 1 ; •«^ 60 «^» Mr. ROBINSON said, he supposed he would be the only member for the Home District that would vote against the resolution, and therefore would take the liberty of making two or three remarks. The differences on this question had been called "a matter of dry law," but it would not appear to be a very dry subject to any one who had attentively lirtened to the speech df the hon. and learned Solicitor General. It was a speech full of argument and historical information. He thought It was so utterly impracticable to have an Executive Council responsible to the House of Assembly, that it could never have been the intention of His Majesty's Government that such a responsibility should exist. He must say, that when he has heard these measures brought forward under the name of Reform, he always feared they did not intend Reform but Revolution. The history of all Revolutions would show the specious names by which those measures were called which finally thus terminated. (Hear, hear.) With regard to withholding the Supplies, hon. members should ask themselves before doing ao, whether the end would justify the merns. He thought not. So much had already been so well said, that he would not take up any more time. Ma. PERRY remarked, that the hon. gentleman before he sat down, observed that so much had been said on his side of the question that it was useless for him to say any thing more. Now, in the name of common aense, what had they said to support the position of His Excellency 1 Was it any thing said by the hon. and learned member for Hamilton 1 His arguments were, that some members of the majority of that house had been made Ca|)tains of Militia and Justices of the Peace. But his hon. friends from Dandas and Stormont (Messrs. Shaver and Chisholm) when they were appointed were great tories, but they saw their error and left the ranks of the tories, because they saw it was a wicked system. Indeed, the minority seemed broken down in spi-it as well as argument during the discussion. The only thing on which they seemed to be animated was concerning the remark he made, that the junior clerks of the Council were sworn to secrecy, which they said wsa unlawful, &;c. ; but there was no law waich required the senior clerk to be sworn, and yet it was well known that he was. What then had they made of it? Then they seemed to turn into ridicule what he (Mr. P.) said about the Governor having power to declare war ; but what did the King's Instructions to the Governor say ? " You shall not make war." Were hon. gentlemen satisfied now ? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) That was just what he expected from ignorance. " You shall not make war except in some special emer. gencjj.^' Did not that very exception give him the power?. Most 'ertainly it did. Had it been shown that there was any difference ^tween ihe oath of the Executive Councillors here and the Privy -ncillors in England? The Privy Council and the Cabinet Councii were the same ;■ — all the members of the Privy Council were net Cabinet Councillors, but all Cabinet Councillors were Privy Councillors. They were not properly two offices; but the Cabinet Councillors held the seals of office so long and no longer than they retained the confidence of the people. There was not one letter oi' the law which required the King to take the advice of 4' ««* 61 •o* i that it \he Cabinet Council, yet it was invariably done ; and what baf ton- tended for was, that the practice pursued in England ought lo b# followed in this Province. i« • •I'^jf ^♦1*''^ ; Mr. MERRITT wished to say a few words on this question. W' was a matter of great importance ; but he did not agree with th« eentlments of any hon. members who had spoken on it. The lat« Council say, they wish the course to be pursued which they proposed, in order to prevent the adoption of other measures uncongenial to the constitution of the country; and the majority of the house pur. sued the same means to attain a different end. There was some inconsistency here which he could not comprehend. He neither entirely approved of the measures of the Governor nor those of that house. It was constitutional and right to refuse the Supplies when it was necessary to do so ; but he did not think it was necessary in the present stage of the question ; for he was satisfied that if they would calmly and temperately discuss it, and poiLt out the remedy, they would obtain it. It was admitted he believed on all hands, that some change was necessary ; but there was difference of opinion respecting what that change should be. He found fault with the Colonial OfRce for dismissing the Crown Officers ; and he was of cpinion that there were too frequent changes at that Office, and not that stability in our Colonial Government which was necessary for the public good. They dismissed officers for the expression of their opinionr. We also saw persons go home and make representations abouc our institutions, for instance the representations that were made by a certain individual concerning our Banking Institutions, and these were adopted and attempted to be forced upon us to the ruin of tne country. Such things should be prevented. If that house would make such representation to England as he had mentioned, he thought they would get the change desired ; but if they adopted the Report and stopt the Supplies, he could see no good that would result from it. They were going on in the same track as Lower Canada, and would get into the same difficulties, which they could not tell what would be the end of. He was satisfied this course of conduct would not result in the good of the country. He was constrained to vote against the Report, and could not consent to withhold the Sup- plies. Mr. DURAND said, that when the hon. and learned Solicitor. General got up, he (Mr. D.) expected that he would dissect the Report, and tear it all to pieces. The hon. and learned gentleman said he had taken notes, and that he would give it a showing up. But what had he done ? He had made a long speech with nothing in it. He had attempted to defend the Governor in the course he had taken ; because, no doubt, the hon. and learned gentlem^an had nrhispered in the royal ear as a secret adviser. At the beginning "H » is i I I ^ »©• w "^ of Um Session the hon. and learned gentleman had said he was wiUiag to go all length* to meet reformers ; but, when he found he could blow into the royal ear, he turned round, and said he had not yet reached his meridian. The Report before the House was an ijnportant and able one, and when it reached England it would pro* cure redress of the public grievances. It would show that the House was determined to take a firm stand. A good doal had been said against stopping the Supplies, but that was the only remedy which the representatives of the people had in their hands. He would repeat what he had before said, that this was the most im. portant measure that had been discussed this Session, and reformers would now get their rights. The tories, who opposed the Report, were completely foiled, and were afraid to come up to the scratch. The great question was, Shall we have responsible government or not ? He hoped we should, and for that reason he would support the Report. He was not afraid to go back to his constituents, and tell them he had done his duty. The tories were the persons who had reason to be afraid. If the country should decide against him, he could not help it. He had not come here from personal choice, or for his own interest, but to promote the good of the country ; and he should vote for the resolution, because he believed it was his duty to do so. Mr. RICHARDSON rose amidst loud cries of *' question." He said, if he were not in the minority he should not hear so much clamour on rising, from those who were afraid of discussion. Ho thought as it was late, the debate ought to be adjourned. (Confused cries of "hear, hear," "go on," dec.) It was now proposed to stop the supplies; but was it just to those who were opposed to that measure, to bring on the question when it was only 48 hours to the close of the session, and therefore not time to discuss it? (More confusion.) His opinion most decidedly was, that these proceedings were carried on in concert with the Papineau party in Lower Can. ada, in order to effect a change in our Constitution and break off the connexion with the mother country. (The cries of " question," " hear him," " go on," " go a-head," coughing, &c. increased to such a degree that the hon. gentleman could not be heard, and was obliged to sit down.) Mr. Perry's amendment was adopted, and on the original ques- tion as amended, the yeas and nays were taken as follows : •«:** K vo> 63 *^ I' ''"^ W YEAb. lleMieurs Alwat, Brucb, BUELL, ClIISlIOLM, Cook, DUNCOMBE, of Ox. ford, DuNcoMBE, of Nor. folk, DUKAND, Gibson, Gilchrist, Hopkins, Howard, LOUNT, ' McDowell, of Stor- mont, McIntosh, .5,./ Mackenzie, McMlCKINO, Moore, Morrison, Norton, Parke, Perry, ROBLIN, Rymal, Shaver, Small, ^^ Thorburn, ' Waters, Wells, Wilson, Woolverton, Yager, 32. <^. . JB^JTAYI. Meseieurs BouLxorr, Brown, ^ f '^'> ' '";^'-i. I Caldwbll, DUNLOP, Lewis, ^-^i. ^ McCkab, S McDonell, of Glen- garry, MoDonbll, of Nor. thumberland, McKay, » McLean, v^ McNaB, If: Malloch, Mebritt, Richardson, Robinson, Rykert, Solicitor Genbral Strange, Thom, Walsh, Wilkinson 2 1 . <^>^^^'^ Majority for the Adoption of the Report, sending it and the Me< morial to England, stopping the Supplies, &c. — 11.