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Q..

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE

TAKEN VNDER THE DIRECTION OF A

roR

CROWN LANDS AND EMIGRATION,

APPOINTED ON THE 21st JUNE, 1838,

HIS EXCELLENCY THE RIGHT HONORABLE

THE EARL OF DIRHAJH,

HIGH COMMISSIONER,

AND

GOVERNOR GENERAL OF HER MAJESTY'S COLONIES

NORTH AMERICA.

CHARLES BULLER EscjriRE, M. P. Chief Commissioner.

RICHARD DAVIES HANSON, EsauiRE, Assistant Commissioner.

CHARLES FRANKLIN HEAD, Esquire, Do. Do.

Hon. HENRY PETRE, Secretary.

QUEBEC— LOWER CANADA:

Printed by J. C. Fishbr and William Kbmblb, Printer to Her Moit
Excellent Majesty the Queen.

1839.

^r-/9

iSVIDENCE

LOWER CANADA.

(to

EVIDENCE.

John Davidson, Esquire, one of the Commissioners of Crown Land^ iii
Lower Canada.

When were you appointed to your present office ? In October 1837.

What were your opportunities before that appointment of acquiring in-
formation as to the state of the Crown property in this Province '.' I
was appointed Surveyor General of Woods and Forests, in 1827; in 1830,
that office was abolished, and the duties were to be performed by Mr.
Felton, the Commissioner of Crown Lands ; the Government offered me
a retiring allowance till I could be provided for ; not wishing to receive
this without an equivalent, I offered my services to assist Mr. Felton.
That offer was accepted, and I remained as such Assistant till his suspen-
sion, in August, 1836, when I was put in charge of the department

You have, therefore, been constantly engaged in the department of
Crown Lands during the last eight years ? I have.

Of what does the landed property of the Crown in this Province con-
sist P All the estates which were held by the King of France at the time
of the conquest, which may be arranged as follows :

1st. Certain fiefs in the city of Quebec and town of Three Rivers,
whereof the censitaires hold immediately under the crown.

2nd. The Forges of St. Maurice, which were established by the old
French government, and have been let for different terms to private
persons.

3rd. The King's trading posts, which aignifies that portion of the Pro-
vince of Lower Canada between the settled lands on the North bank of
the river St. Lawrence, and the land held under the charter of the Hud-
son's Bay Company, and which tract is held by that company, under a
lease, that licenses to them the sole right of hunting, fishing and trading
in that territory. This lease expires in 1842.

4th. The King's Wharves in Quebec, which were originally formed by
the old French Government, and have been improved by the British Go.
vernment, and are now let upon lease to individuals.

5th. The estates held at the time of the conquest h-; the late order of
the Jesuits, which, upon the extinction of that o -vCii" in the Province,
were reserved by the Crown, and which consist of e. cnsive seigniories,
and other property, including buildings in the city of Quebec, and the
town of Three Rivers.

6th. All the beaches and water lots upon all navigable rivers. The
beaches consist of the land on both sides of the river, between the high
and low water mark, and the water lots extend from the low water mark
into deep water.

7th. The whole of the waste and unappropriated land within the Pro-
vince. In addition to this the Crown is entitled to a mutation fine upon
the sale of seigniories, varying from the Maille D'or, which is a nominal
acknowledgement, to one fifth part of the purchase, which is the more
common fine, and payable in either case before the seignor is permitted to
perform fealty and homage.

What part of this property is under the control of your department "
Under instructions from the Treasury, dated November, I82fi, by wliicli
the office of Commissioner of Crown Lands was created, tlic propertv
placed under his control consisted of the waste lands whicli have not been
surveyed or laid out ; waste lands which have been surveyed and laid
out, but of which no part has been granted ; ungranted lands and Crown
reserves in districts, where grants have been made; \^nds which have
been granted in perpetuity upon payment of Quit Rents or other Rents ;
leases and reserves which liave been granted upon leases for series ot
years upon reserved rents or otherwise. Practically the Commiseioner^
of Crown lands has not had any superintendence of any land which lins
been granted in perpetuity upon payment of quit rents or other rents.

Under whose management then is the land so granted in perpetuity
upon the payment of quit rents or otherwise? The Inspector of the
King's domain.

Then in respect to the property in question, the Treasury order ol
November, IB'JO, has not been observed ? The local Government have
not considered the order to apjily to that property.

But the property is specifically named, is it not, in the Treasury order?
It appears so.

Under whose superintendence are those portions of the Crown property
which are not contained in the Treasury order of November, 1827 ? Tin
Jesuit Estates which have been placed at the disposal of the Provincial
Legislature for the purpose of Education, are under the superintendence
of a Commissioner called the Commissioner of the Jesuit Estates. The
fiefs in the city of Quebec and the town of 'Jhree Rivers, as well as the
fines upon the alienation of se'gniories are under the superintendence of
the GrcUier du papier terrier.

What is the name of the gentleman holding that appointment ? The
Honorable F. W. Primrose.

Is he not also inspector of King's domain l Yes. — Neither the forges ol
St. Maurice, the King's trading posts, nor the King's wharves, are to my
knowledge under any special superintendence, but the administration ot
this property rests with the Governor and Council, who re-let the forges
and wharves whenever a lease expires, and determine applications for
beach and water lots.

Has any particular office the charge of preventing encroachments upon
the beaches and water lots ? Not that I am aware of.

In what way can such an encroachment be removed ? I believe by in-
tlictment for a nuisance.

At whose expense ? Generally at the expense of the private prose-
cutor.

Are you aware of the mode in which the lands of the Crown were
originally disposed of by the French Government ? I understand that
ihcy were granted in fief and seigniory. The most intelligible way of
expressing it, would be, that manors were created, containing from nine
to thirty-six square leagues, and were granted to individuals, to
be by them surveyed and subdivided, and conceded to whoever
might apply for the same, upon certain conditions of settlement and
service, and the payment of a small fixed quit rent, and a fine upon
alienation amounting to one-twelfih of the purchase ; with a further
privilege of banalite or the right of compelling all the censitaires
or copy-holders to grind their corn at his mill, paying 1-I4th for
irrinding. The seignior has also the right of reserving to himself such a

^•our department •
, 1820, by whidi
ited, the propertv
iicli have not bueii
urveyed and laid
lands and Crown
inds which have
ta or other Rents ,
sascs for series of
e CommisEioners
y land which has
r other rents,
ited in perpetuity
e luapectorof the

reasury order ol
jQvernnient have

c Treasury order ?

e Crown property
Jer, 1827 ? 'I'hc
tf the Provincial
superintendence
it Estates. The
, as well as the
iperintendence ot

ointment ? The

ther the forges ol

arves, are to my

idministration of

re-let the forges

applications for

oachnients upon

believe by in-

: private prose-

le Crown were
mderstand that
ligible way of
ining from nine
individuals, to
to whoever
settlement and
id a tine upon
with a further
the censitaires
ng 1-1 4th for
limself such a

portion of land as he might choose to cultivate, in the immediate nciL;li'
bourhood of his dwelling house as domain bnd, but tvns bound to concede
nil the rest upon application. The «crvice to be performed by the copy
holders were corv^es or labors for the benefit of the seignior in his domain
or at his mill, for which, whenever it was exacted, an allowance was madf
in the abatement of the rent.

What has been the amount of land granted upon this tenure V I'iicvin
million arpents, or about 9,429,000 acres. "*>

What proportion of these seignioral grants have been conceded by tin
seigiiiors ? Rather more than rj.OOO.OOO arpents, or 4, .'300, 000 acres.

Then there remains unconceded nearly 0,000,000, arfitnts ? Yes, Iml
this includes the barren island of Anticosti, which countains l,80(>,00(»
arjients, and the mountainous land at the back of the settled parts of tlir
seigniories to the north of the St. Lawrence.

Can you give an account of the different modes in which since the khi
quest, waste lands the property of the crown, have become the properls
of individuals ? There have been at least seven different modes pursued
at dill'crcnt times. From the acquisition of the Province in 17(1^5, up to
about 177i>, land was granted under instructions from the Crown framed
in Kngland under location tickets in free and common soccage. TIicm
location tickets were of a military character, confined principally to tlif
district of Quebec ; some are on record for the district of CJaspe, but
generally speaking they contain provisos authorizing the Crown to re-
sume for military purposes. I have no means of ascertaining how much
land was disposed of under these regulations, since a considerable portion
of the land so granted was subsequently included in the Province ol
Upper Canada. In 1775 these instructions appear to have been super-
seded by instructions from the Home Government, which directed that
all lands then or thereafter to be subject to the disposal of the Crown,
should be granted in fief and seigniory, in like manner as was practised
antecedent to the conquest, but omitting any reservation of judicial pow-
ers. Under these instructions, three seigniories appear to have been
granted. These instructions appear to have been modified in 1 78(i, by
mstructions to Lord Dorchester, whereby it was ordered that grant's
should be made to Emigrant U. E. Loyalists and to disbanded soldiers ;
and further that grants should be made to the officers and privates of tin'
'^4th Regiment of Foot, in the following proportion :

To Field OtHcers 5,000 acres,

To Captains 3,0GO "

To Subalterns 2,000 "

To Non-Commissioned OfHcers 200 "

To Privates 50 "

These grants to be held under the Crown as seignior, and subject to all
the seignioral duties. I believe that very little, if any thing, was done
under these instructions to Lord Dorchester, for the Emigrant Lovalists
and soldiers objected to the feudal tenures, and accordingly the" Local
Government appear to have reverted to the system of location tickets
established under the instructions of 1 763, and which had been suspended
by those of 1775. After the passing of the Constitutional Act of 1791,
lands were granted by patent to leaders of townships and their associates!
Under this system, 1,200 acres were granted to the leader, and 1,^00 to
each of his associates, it being quite notoiicus that in many cases the
whole and in none less than 1000 acres were immediately conveved by

eacti associate to the lender. This system was pursued till about the year
iHOn, when a greater degree of vigilance was observed. Partial grantw
to the extent of 20U ucrud were made to individuals between that year and
1812, when the American war was commenced. Between 1N14 aiui
I HI 8, little land was granted, and in the latter year a system was intro.
duced of granting lots under location tickets containing specific duties of
settlement. This system was superseded by instructions from the Trea-
sury, dated November, 182(>, which instructions established a system of
sale, but permitted exceptional grants. That part of these instructions
which established the mode of payment for land sold, and permitted ex-
ceptional grants, was superseded by instructions from Lord Goderich in
1831 ; which instructions, however, were not acted upon ; the former
mode of selling having been continued, with the sanction of tlie Local
Government. In 1837, instructions were received from Lord Glenelg,
requiring payment of the full amount of the purchase monefat the time
of sale, by which instructions my office is now regulated. Besides these
different systems, the Home Government has retained an authority to
make exceptional grants, and has frequently exercised it ; as in the case of
certain executive councillors, member of the land boards, to each of whom
the Duke of Portland ordered a grant of a quarter of a township, or ncnriy
12,000 acres, the grant of nearly 50,000 acres to Sir R. S. INIilnes, former-
ly Governor of the Province ; a grant to Mr. Felton, an emigrant from
England, who brought the order witli him, of 5,000 acres positively, and
5,000 more conditionally ; and uncomlitional grants to some other persons
who accompanied him ; the instructions lo the Duke of Richmond, (of
which no copy is extant in the colony) by which grants of land were
directed to be made to such persons as had served in the embodied militia :
the Free grants of land to otlicers and privates who had served in the
British army, and the remission of purchase money lo an equivalent
amount, which was afterwards substituted for the grant of land ; and,
lastly, the order of Lord Goderich in 1832, directing a free grant of lancl
to military pensioners, who had commuted their pensions. The Canada
Tenure Act formed another exception, as the commutation of seigniory
was equivalent to a free grant to the seignior of all the unconceded land
within its limits. There was also an exceptional sale of a very consider-
able tract of land to the British North American Land Company.

Be so good as to describe the system of granting land on location tick-
ets which prevailed from 17G3to 1775] These grants were as I have
mentioned of a military character. I do not find that they were subject
to any other condition than that of a right of resumption by the Crown,
if the land was required for military purposes ; they were granted chiefly
under the authority of land boards who decided upon applications.

What was the system of leaders and associates f The leader of a town-
ship having collected as many signatures to a petition as would make up
the quantity that he required, (being for a whole township, or 48,000
acres, 39 signatures of associates, and for any smaller quantity in a like
proportion, no less than a quarter of a township having been applied for
under this system,) lodged his application at the Governor's office. —
It was then referred to the Executive Council. The application being
recommended by the Council, and approved by the Governor, an order
issued to the Surveyor General to survey the tract applied for ; the re.
turn to that order being made, the Attorney General was instructed to
prepare the draft of the letters patent, which were engrossed by the Pro-

till nboiit the year
Partial graiitB
'CCH that year and
Btweeii INN ami
system was iijtro.
spccific duties ol
19 Irom the Trca-
lished a syslein of
these instructions
[»d permitted cx-
Lord Goderich in
>pon ; the former
ction of the Local
I Lord Glenelg,
oncy at the time
d. Besides thest-
id an authority to
; as in the case of
to each of whom
ivnship, or nearly
. Milnes, former-
« emigrant from
E9 positively, and
me other persons

Richmond, (of
ints of land were
nibodied militia :

served in the
[to an equivalent

of land ; and.
ee grant of land
• The Canada
on of seigniory
inconceded lanil
very consider-
npany.

•n location tick-
were as I Iiave
y were subject
by the Crown,
granted chieflv
cations.

iaderofa town-
ivould make up
'ip. or 48,000
itity in a like
Ben applied for
•nor's office. —
ilication being
ernor, an order
for ; the re_
8 instructed to
i by the Pro-

vincial Secretary, and after being audited by the Auditor of land patents,

Gassed the great seal. The grant was of 1,200 acres to each one of tlie
odv of applicants.

llow did the applicants divide the land granted } I doubt whether any
division ever took place.

Did they then hold the property in common ? No, but each associutc
conveyed his 1,200 acres to the leader.

What was the consideration for these conveyances ? It might almost
be said that there was in fact no consideration. The whole was a plan
devised for the purpose of eluding the instructions from the Home
Government, under which no person could obtain a grant of more than
1,200 acres. The associates were persuaded to sign their names to the
petition, not with any expectation ot obtaining land, but on a promise of
some small sum for their trouble. At the time of signing the petition, uti
agreement was signed by the parties, (the original draft of which it i«
said was prepared by the then Attorney General,) by which each associate
bound himself to convey to the leader from 1,000 to 1,100 acres, in con.,
sideration of the trouble and expense of procuring the survey and grant.
This conveyance was accordingly made, aud afterwards the remaining
100 or 200 acres were conveyed by the associates, for one or two guineas,
as the case might be, which was the real consideration for their share in
the transaction.

Do you really imagine that the Executive Council, by whom these
grants were recommended, were generally aware of the agreement be-
tween the leader and his associates ( Certainly so, it was quite notorious.
Forms of the agreement were printed, and publicly sold at the law station-
ers in Quebec.

Did it ever happen that a member of the Executive Council was ii
leader of a township under this system ? It appears from the list of lead-
ers that several of them were.

Do you imagine that any applications of this kind were ever refused by
the Executive Council ? I do not imagine that there were.

Probably, however, no application was ever made without a previous
assurance that it would be granted ? 1 should apprehend that such must
have been the case, as the matter involved some expense, no one wouki
have gone into it without some previous communication.

The system in question is referred to, in the following terms, in a re-
port of a Committee in the House of Assembly, on the settlement of
Crown Lands, dated 23rd Feby. 1821, "Your Committee unwilling to
" believe that the above mentioned evasions of His Majesty's gracious
" Instructions, had been practised with the knowledge, privity or con-
" sent of His Majesty's servants, bound by their oath, their honor, and
" their duty, to obey them, instituted a long and patient investigation
" into the origin of these abuses. They have been painfully but irresist-
" ibly led to the conclusion that they were fully within the knowledge
" of individuals in this Colony, who possessed and abused His Majesty's
" confidence. The instruments by which this evasion was to be carried
" into effect, were devised by His Majesty's Attorney General for the time
" being, printed and publicly sold in the Capital of this Province, and
*' the principal intermediate Agent was His Majesty's late Assistant
" Surveyor General." — Do you imagine this description to be substan-
tially correct ? From the care with which that report was drawn up, and

the high character of the gentlemen who drew it, I can have no doubt o:
its being substantially correct.

Have the lands granted under this system of leaders and associates beci
generally settled ? No.

What proportion do you suppose have been settled ? I cannot exactly
say, but I believe the settlement of these lands to be confined to lh<
townships on the frontier line of the United States.

But in what proportion to the whole ? I cannot tell.

A quarter ? ( think not.

Would you be a'jle to ascertain by further enquiry ? I will endeavour
to do so.

All that portion of these grants which have not been settled, remain
therefore, in a perfectly wild state ? Yes, with the exception of occa-
sional clearances made by squatters who have gone to make Potash.

Were any conditions attached to the Grants under this system ? The
conditions were within one year to settle a family for every 1,200 acres
within 2 years to plant and cultivate two acres for every 100 ; and within
7 years, to plant and cultivate 7 acres for every 100.

Were these conditions generally fulfilled ? Not as a system.

What do you mean by that ? I mean that the instances will be founc
to be very rare, where the Grantees set to work in good faith to perform
the conditions of the grant. In the townships bordering upon the Ameri.
can frontier, they will in many instances be found to have been fulfilled,
hut not in the centre townships* or in those bordering upon the seig-
niories.

To what do you attribute the difference 1 That many of the parties
applying for land on the frontier, were bona fide applicants desiring the
land for the purpose of settlement. 1 believe they were chiefly Ameri.
cans.

But, in the cases when the whole grant became the property of the
leader, in the mariner which you have already described, the conditions
were not fulfilled Ijy the grantee ? I should say certainly not.

Was there any machinery for securing the performance of these con-
ditions ? Not that 1 am aware of. Nor do I know that any steps were
taken, until the evil became so great, as to induce the Imperial Govern-
ment to establish a Court of Escheats, to enforce the forfeiture of lands, in
respect of which the conditions had not been performed.

I find by article 59 of the Royal Instructions, dated 1 763, that the
Surveyor General, or such other person as should be appointed by the
Governor, was directed, " once in every year, or oftener, as occasion
" should require, to inspect the state of grants of lands, made by the
" Governor, and make report thereof to the Governor, in writing,
'• specifying whether the conditions contained therein have or have not
" been complied with, and what progress has been made towards fulfill-
" ing the same," are you aware if any thing has been done in compli-
ance with the directions ? I do not believe that the instructions were ever
acted upon, according to their tenor, but, as far as my recollection serves
me, Lord Dalhousie did once direct Mr. Bouchette, the Surveyor Gene,
ral, to make a tour of inspection through the country, and report the
state of the grants, but I do not know if any report was made on the
subject.

Then in fact this article of the instructions has not been considered
binding ? I imagine they were not regarded as part of the code to be
acted upon in granting land.

an have no doubt u:

I and associates beer

■? I cannot exacti',
) be confined to the

ill.

' I will endeavour

en settled, remain
J exception of occa-
make Potash,
this system ? The
every 1,200 acres
ry 100 ; and within

a system.

tances will be founc
)od faith to perform
ag uponthe AmerL
lave been fulfilled,
ing upon the seig-

lany of the parties
licants desiring the
ere chiefly Ameri.

he property of the
ed, the condition-
ily not.

nee of these con-
lat any steps were
Imperial Govern-
rfeiture of lands, in

3d 1763, that the
appointed by the
ener, as occasion
nds, made by the
jrnor, in writing,
have or have not
ie towards fulfill-
done in compli-
'uctions were e?er
recollection serves
J Surveyor Gene.
'. and report the
was made on the

been considered
f the code to be

Will you now describe the proceedings under the system of location
tickets which superseded the practice of grants to the leaders and as-
sociates ? The object of this system was to put an end to grants ot
land in all cases except of actual settlement. In fact under this lystem,
the grant was not to be obtained until after conditions had been perform-
ed. The first part of the system was to appoint an Agent for each town-
ship, to act as superintendant of settlements therein. The quantity ot
land granted to any settler under location tickets was generally speaking,
limited to 200 acres. The conditions required, were, " that either the ap-
plicant or his family shi ild remain on the land for the space of three years,
from the date of his location ticket,that four acres at least of the land should
be cleared and cultivated, and a dwelling house erected, and on a cer-
tificate by the township Agent of the performance of these duties, the
applicant become entitled to his Patent.

Were these conditions generally performed ? Very soon after the sys-
tem was established, a very important alteration was made, relieving the
locatee or his family from the necessity of personal residence, and estab-
lishing that this condition might be performed by any person, the locatee
might place upon the land. This has produced a practice to refer the
locatee for patent, on the production of certificates that four acres of land
have been cleared, and a dwelling house erected, leaving it to be pre-
sumed that there is a residant.

The conditions then, except as to actual residence, have been generally
performed ? Yes, and more harm done to the land than if it had been
let alone.

Please to explain that ? The requisite clearance was made, and a
dwelling house erected, merely for the purpose of observing the letter of
the conditions, but without any view to settlement. The four acres of
timber were burnt off, and a hut raised, but no cultivation took place,
and the whole effect was to cause the growth of a bad scrub wood in the
place of the useful timber which had been removed.

Was much land granted in this manner ? A good deal.

About what amount should you think ? 563,150 acres.

What is the present state of this land, or the greater part of it ? The
greater part of it is uncultivated.

Do you suppose that the greater part of it remains in the hands of the
original grantees ? A very considerable portion will be found in the hands
of the original grantees or their heirs.

The new system of location tickets therefore which appears to have
been intended to check the alienation of Crown lands which had taken
place under the leader and associate system, and also to provide against
land, the property of individuals, being left in a wild state, did not
accomplish its object ? Not to the extent intended.

That object appears to have been defeated by the abandonment of the
condition of personal residence ? It was so.

By whose authority was that condition abandoned i By that of the
Executive Council.

The militia grants, which you have before mentioned as being excep-
tional from the general system, from time to time in force, were made,
were they not, upon the plan of the location tickets ? The first land
grant in reward of raiUtia services, was that made to the officers aud pri-
vates of the British and Canadian militia, who served during the siege of
Cuebec, in 1. 775-6. Those parties received letters patent for their grants,

subject to the same conditions as I have previously described, as being
contained in the grants to leaders and associates. The grants to the
embodied militia ^o served in the last American war, were subject to
conditions of settlement according to the location ticket system.

As to the first set of militia grants, were the conditions generally fulfil!,
ed? No.

As to the second set P They have not been fulfilled.

How are the conditions evaded in both cases ? In the first case the
parties being in possession of their letters patent, sold their right, generally
for a trifle, to parties who have held them generally in a wild state ever
since, trusting that in time they might become valuable. In the second
case I believe that settlements would have been formed, if there had been
proper arrangements made to enable the grantees to reach their lands,
with some superintendence immediately after they had got to it, to which
the Canadians have been accustomed.

But in point of fact, very little settlement has taken place under these
grants ? A very little indeed.

Have the original grantees generally retained the property ? I have
every reason to believe not to any great extent.

In what way have they generally disposed of it ? For very trifling
considerations.

Have you any idea of the average amount of the consideration ? I
should think that four or five dollars would be a very fair average.

So that in many cases the grant was disposed of for next to nothing ?
Yes.

And in no case for a sum sufficient to be of permanent service to the
grantee ? In no case, except perhaps where there happened to be water
power upon the grant.

Such cases would be very few ? Very few in proportion to the whole.

The whole object of the government therefore in making these grants
both as respects the advantage of militia-men, and the cultivation of the
land, seems to have been defeated ? To a great extent. The improvident
manner in which militia'raen of 1775 disposed of their grants, was to be
expected from their character as townsmen. I have heard that one of
these grants were sold for a bottle of rum. And it is to be lamented that
the want of a proper arrangement, prevented the object of the grant from
being accomplished, with respect to the grants to those who served in the
last American war.

What has been the amount of land granted to militia claimants ?
Under the claims of those who served in 1775-6,232,821 acres, and
under the claims of those who served during the last American War,
217,840 acres.

Are all the militia claims satisfied ? No ; claims to the amount of from
.500,000 to 800,000 acres are yet pending.

By what authority have militia claims been decided ? By that of the
Executive Council.

Do you suppose that the claims now pending, are generally made bona
fide, i. e. that the claimant desires the grant for himself, or that the be*
neficial interest in such claims has been to any extent transferred to other
parties ? My impression is, that the beneficial interest has, generally
speaking, been transferred.

For what consideration generally ? For a trifling consideration, on ac-
count of their being subject to duties of settlement in the first instance.

bed, as beinu:
grants to the
rere subject to
tern,
inerally fulfilL

first case tlic
ight, generally
rild state ever
11 the second
here had been
h their lands,
o it, to which

ce under these

srly ? I have

very trifling

iideration ? I

erage,

t to nothing '/

service to the
sd to be water

to the whole.

these grants
vat ion of the
le improvident
ats, was to be
krd that one of

amented that
the grant from
> served in the

a claimants ?
21 acres, and
merican War,

mount of from

ly that of the

Uy made bona
that the be-
ferred to other
las, generally

ration, on ac-
first instance,

and the generality of the claimants not being aware even to this moment,
that they are relieved from them.

Have the claims of many individuals, do you suppose, been transferred
to a single person ? Yes.

The purchase of these claims, then, has been a speculation in lands ?
Yes.

How has it happened that so many of these militia claims have remained
unsettled for so long a period ? The difficulty experienced by the militia-
man, when he was first discharged, in finding the land assigned to him,
induced him either to give up the grant as useless, or to dispose of it for
a trifle. The expense of the duties of settlement has operated in pre-
venting the parties who may have purchased militia claims, from urging
the claim so acquired. Many of them would probably never have been
pursued, if the new system of selling had not led to an expectation that
wild lands would soon become more valuable.

So that the plan of selling, in substitution of all plans of free grants,
which was intended to limit the alienation of Crown lands, has tended tu
bring forward claims, by the granting of which a very great alienation,
on the free grant system would take place ? I think so, and this is a
remarkable example of the manner in which two diflierent modes of dis.
posing of Crown lands may counteract each other.

And besides the plan of selling now established, the object of the Go-
vernment in admitting militia claims, so far as respect the advantage
of the militia man, would not generally be accomplished, if all the claims
now pending were admitted ? Such is my persuasion.

The only persons who would benefit by the admission of these claims,
are, generally speaking, such as made a trade of purchasing militia claims
for a mere trifle upon a speculation ? That is my view of the case.

What was the exceptional case of the grant to pensioners, which you
mentioned just now ? An order for the free grant of 100 acres of land to
the privates, 200 to serjeants, and 300 to Serjeant majors ; Army pen-
sioners who had commuted their pensions for a sum of money. About
1267 presented ther credentials at this oflice, and obtained orders of
reference to the Agents ; of that number, 771, actually proceeded to
their lands, and have since received licenses of occupation, and of the
latter number, 205 having performed the settlement duties required of
them, have obtained letters patent. Of the first class, a great number
disposed of their orders of reference at Quebec and Montreal, for a mere
trifle, and those who have purchased the orders, forwarded them to the
Land Office here, for licenses of occupation, which were refused. Of the
second class, many have since abandoned their different vocations.

These grants appear to have been of but little advantage to the parties]!
Of very little. Assuming these men to have been of a class fit for settlers,
which very few of them were, the want of instructions to prepare and
select the proper location, and of the necessary arrangement for their
settlement, rendered the whole plan nugatory. It was even understood
at the time, that the pensioners arrived here in numbers, claiming the
sums due to them for commutation of their pensions, before authority had
been received from the Commissariat to pay them. Many of them too
were crippled or infirm, and the majority of them, when they obtained
their commutation money, squandered it as fast at they could, and became
miserable paupers about the place. Many of them died of the Cholera,
and they have at length nearly dissappeared.

tji

There remains the exceptional case of seigniorial land virtually cuti-
verted into free grants, by means of the Canada Tenures Act, what was
that practice ? By the Tenures Act passed in 1825, seigniors were al-
lowed to convert their holding in fief, into a title by free and common
Boccage, giving to their censitaires a right to compel a commutation from
them, upon similar terms to those upon which they had commuted with
the Crown. Some seigniors, holders of extensive tracts, availed them-
selves of this law and the result has been that they now hold their land
as an absolute property, discharged from the condition of conceding it
upon the old terms to whoever might apply for it.

As to the property therefore commuted from the seignorial to the soc-
cage tenure, the effect has been the same as if so much land had been
disposed of by free grant ? It has.

Have not these seigniors chiefly confined the commutation to the wild
portion of their domains ? With the exception of the seigniory of Beau-
harnois, I conceive that to have been the case.

The virtual free grants, therefore, have been chiefly of wild lands ?
Yes.

And the quantity of wild land held upon the soccage tenure has been
proportionably augmented ? It has.

Proceeding to the Treasury instructions of Novr. I82G, be so good as
to state what have been the proceedings under the system which they
established ? Those Treasury Instructions required that all land should
be disposed of by sales, the purchase money to be payable in four equal
annual instalments, with provision that sales be made to poor settlers,
upon what is termed a quit rent, but which was in fact, interest at five
per cent, upon the estimated value of the land, redeemable at any time,
upon payment of that value, The land was to be disposed of by public
auction, at an upset price ; and the quantity to be put up for sale, as
well as the price at which it was to be offered, were to be determined by
the Governor, upon the recommendation of the Commissioner of Crown
Lands, who was directed to make an annual report to the Governor for
that purpose. Due notice was to be given of the time and place of sale,
and of the quantity, situation, and upset price of the land offered, and
any land not sold at that time was to be reserved for future sale, in a
similar manner by auction.

Were these regulations strictly observed ? As far as respects the an-
nual report to the Governor, and there being an annual sale, they were,
but a practice prevailed of disposing of what remained over from the annual
sale by private contract at the upset price.

Of course the degree of competition at the annual auction sales, de-
pended upon the quantity of land which the government brought forward
for sale ? Yes, naturally.

Was the competition generally such as that the price obtained exceeded
the upset price ? Very seldom indeed. There are few instances where
the price obtained exceeded the upset price.

To what proportion of the land disposed of under the auction system,
does this remark apply ? To a very trifling per centage, not exceeding
2^ per cent, or one-thirty-ninth part of the whole.

The object of selling by auction, therefore, was scarcely ever accom-
plished ? Scarcely ever. Nearly the same result would have been pro-
duced by a fixed price without auction.

What do you soppose could have been the inducement for introducing

land virtually coii-
ares Act, what was
, seigniors were al-
f free and common
I commutation from
lad commuted with
racts, availed them-
low hold their land
ion of conceding it

eignorial to the soc-
uch land had heeii

nutation to the wild
seigniory of Beau-

efly of wild lands ?

jge tenure has been

326, be so good as
system which they
that all land should
yable in four equal
le to poor settlers,
Fact, interest at five
mable at any time,
sposed of by public
lut up for sale, as

be determined by
nissioner of Crown

1 the Governor for
I and place of sale,
e land offered, and
r future sale, in a

is respects the an-
ual sale, they were,
ver from the annual

auction sales, de-
nt brought forward

obtained exceeded
w instances where

he auction system,
ge, not exceeding

rcely ever accom-
uld have been pro-

nt for introducing

the plan of sale, by private contract, notwithstanding the direction that
sales should be by auction ? The public advertisements led parties to
suppose that there would be but one sale in the year ; and the lands hav-
ing been once offered, and not bid for, it was conceived to be no disad.
vantage to the government, but that it would meet the convenience of
purchasers to make private sales in the intervening period between the
annual public sales.

Might it not have happened that a private sale was resorted to in some
cases in order to avoid the competition of an auction ? It might have so
happened, but I have no knowledge of the fact.

You are acquainted with the sale by private contract, at the upset price,
of 55,486 acres to Mr. Tyler Harvey Moore ? I am.

That land was re-sold at an advance to the British American Land
Company ? I understand so.

Then it is probable that if the same land had been put to auction, the
company or others might have been ready to pay more for it than the
upset price ? In the instance of that purchase or a part of it, I believe
so.

Was much land disposed of under the Treasury instructions of 1826?
The whole amount of land disposed of being virtually under these instruc-
tions, (those of Lord Goderich of 1831, never having been acted upon,)
was 450,469 acres of Crown land, and 299,811 of Clergy reserves, in the
whole 750,250 acres.

What proportion of this extent of land do you suppose has been set.,
tied? The purchases of 200 acres and under, amounting to 186,853
Crown, and 91,029 Clergy, in the whole 277,882 acres, have, I presume,
been all settled, Tlie major part of the remainder, I believe to be still
in a state of nature, with the exception of what may have been purchased
by the British American Land Company.

Was the upset price during this period uniform or variable ? It varied
very considerably from one shilling and three pence to ten shillings per
acre.

Was the upset price the same throughout the Province during any one
year, or were there different upset prices in different parts of the Province ?
Always different upset prices in different parts of the Province.

Was the variation of upset prices confined to the difference in different
places ; i. e. was the same upset price required during the whole period
in each place ? Yes, the same upset price for each place was preserved
during the whole period.

By whom was the upset price for each place determined ? The upset
price was always determined by the Governor, upon the recommenda-
tion of the Commissioner of Crown Lands.

Are you aware of any rule by which the Commissioner of Crown Lands
was guided in recommending different prices, for different parts of the
province 1 Remoteness from, or proximity to a settlement formed one
basis, and the quality of the soil another. He fixed that upset price
which he thought in each case the persons desirous to obtain land would
be best able to pay.

In point of fact, as the auction was almost nugatory, it was a fixed
price ? Yes.

Supposing the object of the price to have been to prevent the acquisi-
tion of lands, by persons not intending to reclaim it, the price fixed by
the Commissioner seems to have been too low ? That would seem to
be the case.

If the price was intended as a check upon the alienation of crown pro-
perty, it was not sufficiently high to operate efTectually ? Certainly not
Was not this plan of selling, all the while, counteracted by other modes
of disposing of crown lands being in operation at the same time ? li
was ; by the free grants to militiamen ; by free grants to discharged
soldiers of the British army ; by free grants to officers, (for the remission
of the purchase money to them, is tantamount to a free grant) ; by soiuf
free grants made in England, and by the sale in England to the Britisli
North American Land Company, of a great extent of the best land in
the country, at a price very much below the highest upset price required
under the general system.

Land disposed of under these exceptions may perhaps have amounted
to as much as the land disposed of, under the rule ; have you mentioned
all the exceptions ? In addition to these, there have been free grants in
fulfilment of promises or engagements by the Provincial Government,
entered into before the plan of selling was adopted, and to this day,
parties are urging such claims, some of them to very considerable tracts
What has been tlve whole amount of land sold under the Treasury in-
structions of Nov. 1826, since the plan of selling has been adopted '
750,280 acres.

And during the same period what has been the extent of land alienated
in exception to those instructions, by free grant or otherwise ? 64I,03!I
acres ; not including the sale to the British North American Land Conu
pany, Avhich may be stated at 800,000 acres.

So that the quantity disposed of under the exceptions, exceeds by about
100 per cent, the quantity disposed of under the rule laid down by the
Treasury order of 1826 ? Yes, it docs.

During the continuance of the pretended system of sale, as determined
by the instructions of 182G, has it ever happened that land acquired h\
free grant during the same period, could be purchased for less than the
upset price, required for Crown land in the same neighbourhood ? Yes,
I believe there have been many instances of that being the case.

Can you specify any ? Yes ; for instance, land under the militia claim<
has been constantly on sale at much less than the upset price of Crown
lands ; lands granted to officers with the remission of their purchaa
money, such as I have already described as free grants in reality, havt
heen sold for much less than the upset price of these lands would ha^ e
been, if they had been brought to sale by Government; free grants to
discharged soldiers have been under sale in the same way ; and besides
this, lands obtained under free grants, before the plan of selling was adopt-
ed, such, for example, as the grant of 48,000 acres to Sir R. S. iVlilnes,
have been continually on sale for less than the upset price required for
crown lands in their neighbourhood.

YoM mentioned that Lord Goderich's instructions of 1831, in so far as
they differed from the Treasury instructions of 1826, have not been car-
ried info effect ; what is the diiference in question ? The instructions oi
1826, directed that the purchase money should be paid in four equal
annual instalments without interest. Those of Lord Goderich required
the payments to be made by four instalments at intervals of six months.
,ind to bear interest. The difl'erence being between three years without
julcrest, and eighteen months with interest.

J^ord Goderich's price in point of fact, was higher than the other, or at
lensl more restrictive of alienation? It would have been if it had been acted

ation of crown pio-
ly ? Certainly not
!ted by other mode^,
e same time ? li
ants to dischargeil
J, (for the remission
•ee grant) ; by sotuu
;land to the British
of the best land in
ipset price required

aps have amounted
lave you mentioned
been free grants in
ncial Government,
1, and to this day,
considerable tracts
;r the Treasury in-
has been adopted '

int of land alienated
herwise ? 641,03!)
lerican Land Com,

8, exceeds by about
laid down by the

sale, as determined
it land acquired b\
ed for less than tht
libourhood ? Yes,
;the case.

er the militia claim-;

set price of Crown

of their purchafc

Ills in reality, havt

lands would !la^(J

nt ; free grants to

way ; and besides

' selling was adopt-

Sir R. S. Milnes,

price required for

1 83 1 , in so far as

have not been car-
The instructions oi
aid in four equal
Goderich required
Is of six months,
hree years without

lan the other, or at
if it had been acted

upon ; at least that would appear to hove been his lordship's intention.

How did it happen thiit this instruction was not acted upon ? In con-
sequence of a representation fromiMr. Felton, the Commissioner of Crown
Lands, to Lord Aylmer, the Governor of the Province, stating that the
terms imposed were too severe, and amounted in fact to exacting the
Avhole purchase money down. Lord Aylmer upon this authorised Mr.
Felton to continue the former practice, and it is understood, reported the
circumstance to the Home Government. This was in the year 1832 ; —
and the system of longer credit without interest, continued to be acted
upon, imtil the receipt of Lord Glenclg's despatch of 1837, which required
payment in ready money at the time of sale.

Have any sales taken place under that order of Lord Glcnclg'o ? No ;
some applications have been made lor liberty to jjiirchase, but of very
trifling amount. This is accounted for [larliy by the fi\ct, that requiring
payment in ready money, naturally operates as a check to purchasers for
speculation or jobbing purposes, and partly by the political slate of the
Province during the last year.

Have you menticmed all the methods by which Crown lands have been
disposed of in the Province since the conquest ? >Vilh th;- exception of
Crown and Clergy reserves, and some partial sales about the year 1810
for a special purpose, I think that I have.

What are the Crown and Clergy reserves } Tlie Cicrry reserves ac-
cording to the Act of 1791, establishing the constitution of the Province,
were to consist of a reservation in respect of each grant of waste land, " as
nearly as the same can be estimated at the making such grant, equal in
value to the seventh part of the land so granted." Crown reserves con-
sisted of a seventh part of each newly erected townshi|>, set apart upon
the recommendation of the ICxecutivc <."ouncil, for the supj'ort of the
civil government. These reserves were maile in all the to\ms!iips, until
the establishment of the system of sale in Its27, since which time the
Crown reserves, though they do appear upon the diagram, yet being open
to purchase by individuals, have really been discontinued. Since that
time also the Clergy reserves have been put up to sale in the same man-
ner as the Crown property, under an act of the Imperial Parliament, but
the reserves are still made, and the money received upon their sale, is
carried to separate account.

The constitutional act directs that land equal in value to a seventh of
t!ie land granted, as nearly as the same could be csliiiiated, shall be pre-
served for the .'support of the Clergy ; how has that dirrttion been carried
into effect ? It has been left to the discretion of tlie Surveyor General,
who in the absence of means to estimate the value, has substituted a pro-
portion of quantity.

What then has been the proportion reserved for the clergy ? A portion
equal to one-fifth of the land granted.

But the Act says equal to one seventh of the land granted ? Yes, I
can only say, that the practice has been such as I have dcscrii)e(l. Tho
practice has arisen from the fact, that onc-fit'fh of the granted land in a
township, was equal to one seventh of the township : only iive-rLvenths
being grantable, because one-seventh was reserved for the e'er, y, and
one-seventh for the crown.

The proportion of one seventh then, was reserved for the c'r.. v, rot
only upon the land granted to individuals according to the term- of the
Act of 1791, but also upon the reserve for the crowii, and also uu )a the

rciacrvc for the clergy ; llio cilVcl bciiiK lt> reserve fi)r the clergy one-
iMiVciUli ul' tliu whole IhikI of tlio province, iiiHlcaJ of ii portion LMjual to
uiiu' .seventh of the land uctually ^runte<l, or onu'ci^lith of all the land of
the |>ruvinec, ns directed by the Act of I7!il i Yen, Buch has hccn the
cnae.

lIuH not the plan of Reliin)!; crown iind clergy reserves altered the pro-
|H)rtion of land re»crved for the clergy 'i* Yes, becauHe reservations arc
made for tlie clergy u|M»n every khIu of crown and clergy reserves, in ad-
dition to the original rcHcrvation.

In what proportion is the new rcservutiun made i' One.iifth of the
land Hold.

Then under the operation of the present syKteni, the reserves for the
clergy are equal tu onc-tiflh of the whole land of the province, instead of
an eighth, as directed hy the Act of I7!M i* Yes.

What are the exact words of the Act of I7!M 1' " 'I'hal whenever any
grant of lands within either of the said provinces shall hereafter he made,
by or under the authority of IJis Majesty, his heirs or sucees.sors, there
Khali at the same time ho made, in respect of the same, a jiroportionatr
allotment and appropriation of land for the above mentioned purpose,"
(the support of a proteslant clergy) " within the township or paiish to
which such lands so to be granted shall appertain, or be annexed, or as
nearly adjacent thereto as circumstances will admit, and that no such
grant shall be valid or cti'ectuni, unless the same shall contain a speci-
tication of the lands so allotted and appropriated, in respect of the lands
to be thereby granted, and that such lands so allotted and a|)pro|ii'iated
shall be, ns nearly as the circumstancesand the nature of the case will admit,
of the like (|uality as the lands in respect of which the same arc .so al-
lotted and appropriated, and shall be as nearly as the same can be
estimated, at the time of making such grant, equal in value to the seventh
part ol the land so granted."

So that, supposing 700 acres to have been granted, the clergy reserve,
in addition, would have been 100 acres; that is a portion ccpial to one-
seventh of the grant, and equal to au eighth of the whole land disposed
of '.' Y'es.

Whereas at present, supposing 700 acres to be sold on behalf of the
crown, there is in the first instance a reservation of MO acres in respect
of such sale, and then upon the sale of such 140 acres, a further reser-
vation of 28 acres, and so on, reserving one-tifth upon every sale, till
the process could be continued no longer ; which would make the whole
land disposed of, 87.'} acres, and the reserve to the clergy, 17') acres, or
one-tilth of the whole land disposed of ? Yes such is the case.

What has been the whole amount of land granted in respect of which
clergy reserves have been made ? Rather more, including the sale to
the British American Land Company, than 3,500,000 acres.

The reserve then for the clergy upon this quantity, according to the
proportion fixed by the Act of parliament, would be about 500,000 acres,
while, according to the practice now in force, it would amount to 880,000
acres, being an excess of 380,000 acres, making a clear excess of 75 per
cent ? Yes.

Can you give an account of the actual excess of clergy reserves at the
present time, over the eighth directed by the Act of 1791'' '227,7.'j!»
acres, not including the reserve when the sale to the British North
American Laud Company is completed.

/.Ul

ir the clrrpiy onr-

|i(irti<Mi t<(|U!tl to

of all tlu! liiiid ol

icli lins hccii tlu-

altered the pro-
reservations art:
■ reserves, in ad-

OiieJiflli of the

reserves for the
viiiee, instead of

at wlicnever any

erealler l)c made,

Huecessors, there

a proportionate

itioned purpose,"

diip or paiisji to

l)e annexed, or as

and that no such

contain a spcci-

■<pect of the lands

iind nppro|iriated

case will admit,

13 same arc so al-

le same can be

uc to the seventh

c clergy reserve,
on c(pial to one-
olc land disposed

hclialfof the
acres in respect
further rcscr-
cvcry sale, till
njakc the whole
1 7;") acres, or
jc case.

espect of which
ing the sale to
res.

ccording to the
500,000 acres,
lount to 880,000
xccss of 75 per

reserves at the
791 ? •J27,7r.!>
British North

No actual reserves of land arc now made, either for the crown or the
clergy f No ; what were called the crown reserves have merged iu the
general crown property since the system of sale was adopted, and thou;^!i
the clergy reserves arc still laid out, ami sc|)aratuly accounted for, they
arc open to ])iireha8e by individuals in the same manner as waste land,
the property of the crown.

You mean like crown |)ro|)crty laid open for sale, Ijccause it is only as
clergy reserve that .so much more land is brought into the market ? I
do.

Can you state wliy the system of reservinj? lands for the crown
and the clergy, so as to keep such lands out of the market, has been
abandoned ? The crying injustice of rc(|uiring settlers to open roads over
lands which might remain waste until it suited the convenience of the
Crown and the clergy to settle them, was the principal reason. The peo-
ple in the townships generally not being (lisi)osed to take lands on lease,
ii diOiculty of communication constantly presented itself from the manner
in which the lots were distributed. In addition to which these lots aflord..
cd a harbour to the beasts of the forest, to the great annoyance of adjoin-
ing settlers.

These reserves were n serious obstacle to the Bcttleinentof the country ?
They were.

And have often been described as a public nuisance — do you think that
term applicable i 1 do.

The systcu) of crown reserves having been entirely abandoned, does the
new system of clergy reserves, that is the system of laying out land fur
the clergy, in addition to the other land laid out for sale, still ofieratc in
any degree as a hindrance to the settlement of the country P 1 think not,
under the arrangement of its being open to purchasers.

JJut does it always happen when such land is laid open to purchasers,
that purchasers come forward to obtain it ? Not universally.

Generally V As far ns it applies to the old surveyed townships where
grants have been made, the proprietors of those grants wishing to obtain
the lots which had been reserved.

But little clergy reserve therefore now remains unsold r- But little in
the townships that I have already alluded to, but considerable portions
remain in the other townships.

What proportion of clergy reserves has been actually sold ? About
310,000 out of ()73,000, or rather more than three-sevenths.

Of the amount which has thus been sold, what proportion was sold im-
mediately after the introduction of the system of .sale ? .The system of
selling the clergy reserves was introduced in 1829, and the amount of
cFtrgy reserves at that time was about 000,000 acres. In the first year
afterwards 1,100 acres only were sold ; in the second year about 9,000
acres ; in the third year 11,000 acres ; in the fourth year 7,000 ; in the
rd'th year 37,C00 acres ; in the sixth year 77,000 acres ; seventh year
1 1 1 ,000 acres, and since then about 40,000 acres.

So that after nine years have elapsed, considerably more than half i*
still unsold ? Yes.

May it not be said, therefore, that the plan of selling the clergy re-
serves has not obviated the objection to such a provision for the ciergv,
founded on the impediment to settlement ? Not altogether, but much
good has been produced by the plan of selling.

You tbink, therefore, that in future, the clergy reserves will not present

D 2

any serious obstacle to the settlement of the country ? Ry no uieuiis,
the very block of land to which the clergy are entitled in respect of the
sale to the British American Land Company amoimting to nearly 80,000
acres, may be so situated as to become a source of great annoyance to
both the company and the public

Besides which considerably more than half of the clergy reserves ex-
isting in 1829, still remain unsold and unsettled, without roads, and
operating as an impediment to commimication between the settled parts
of the country which adjoin them ? Yes.

You have already stated that the excess upon the clergy reserves under
the system which has been hitherto pursued, iti addition to the seventh,
mentioned in the Act, amounts tu upwards of 227,000 acres, supiwsing
that this were united to the Crown domain, what would be the amount
of clergy reserves yet remaining ? Not quite 140,000 acres.

And of this how much may be sold annually under the Act authorizing
the sale of the clergy reserves ? 100,000 acres.

In this case then the evils still occasioned by the existence of the clergy
reserves might be removed to a considerable extent, even under the pre-
sent law ? Yes they might.

What has been the total amount produced by the sale of clergy reserves
in this province ? £72,203 178. 4d.

Of this amount how much has been actually received ? £50,425
10s. Gf

To what deduction have these receipts been subject ? To ten per cent
on interest received, and five per cent on instalments, to the out agents
by whom they were collected ; and five per cent upon the whole receipts
to the late commissioner, allowed to him by way of compensation for the
trouble of management.

Is the latter payment still continued to the commissioner P No.

At what period did it cease ? On the 1st of October last. (1837.)

Then this commission has not been i)aid upon the whole of the money
actually received ? No, only upon £50,425 10s. ()d. the amount
received up to the 1st October, at which time the present arrangement
came into force. The out agents only receiving their commission for
collecting.

You have said that the five per cent was allowed to the commissioner
of Crown Lands, as a compensation for the trouble of management of the
clergy property. Was it then in addition to his salary, and the ordinary
fees of office f It was, that duty forming no part of the duties imposed
upon him by his commission.

In what manner then was he invested with the management of this
property since it was not included within the range of the duties as com-
missioner of Crown Lands ? By virtue of an Order in Council, made
after the receipt of the Act of the Imperial Parliament, authorizing the
sale of the clergy reserves.

What was the amount of salary and fees to which he was entitled as
commissioner of Crown Lands ? The emoluments of his office could not
be less than £600 sterling, nor exceed £1200 sterling. The £600 was
to be paid out of the produce of the sales, and he was further entitled to
a commission of £5 per cent upon the amount sold, beyond the £600
necessary to pay his salary, such £5 per cent not to amount to more
than £600.

? By no means,
i in respect of the
S to nearly 80,000
reat annoyance to

clergy reserves ex-
ithout roads, and
n the settled parts

rgy reserves under

on to the seventh,

3 acres, supposing

lid be the amount

acres.

ic Act authorizing

tcncc of the clergy
fen under the pre-

of clergy reserves

eived ? £50,420

To ten per cent
to the out agents
he whole receipts
ipensation for the

)ner ? No.
last. (1837.)
lole of the money
(id. the nmount
sent arrangement
r commission for

the commissioner
anagement of the
and the ordinary
le duties imposed

nagement of this
le duties as com-
in Council, made
, authorizing the

e was entitled as
5 office could not
The £600 was
irther entitled to
beyond the £600
amount to more

Vfna thtitti any similar limtfnrfimt its trt tht> nnimm of per centa«;e to be
rrcfived upon the snic ofc'crgy reserves * No, there was not.

llipn, mis;ht not this mode of payment oprntte an an inducement to
the' Commissioner of Crown Lands, to force upon \\\v. market a greater
qoanfity of clergy rescrvw Hian that ft)r whidi there was a legitimate de-
mand ? I do not think that iNtr. Pellon \tas actuated by any such
motive, but I know that hrs opinion was strongly expressed on the vital
importance to the well being and advancement of the townsships, that the
whole of the clergy reserves should be disposed of, in order to prevent
the chance ot their coming under the management of a clergy corpora-
tion. Having ihus qualified my answer, it is very possible that such
might have been the operation, and that they may have been put into
the market a year or two carHer than there was any necessity for.

Is it not the fact, that the conduct of Mr. Fclton was attributed to such
a motive '! Such motives were, I believe, utuibilted to Mr. Fellon, by
the agents of the clergy corporation.

Were the clergy reserves thus sold, in g'eneral purchased in small
quantities for the purpose of sdttlemcnt, or in large blocks by specula^^
tors, wiio have done nothing since to improve (hem ? Since the year
1833, almost entirely by speculators, \Vho have shico allowed them to
remain waste.

Then supposmg that Mr. Felton's objection to the existance of clergy
reserves was the impediment they offtred to settlement, the course which
he pursued has done nothing to remedy that objection ? No, but he
might fairly assume Ihat it would ; upon the principle of parties not feel-
ing disposed to permit their capital to lay dortrtant, alter the whole
instalments have been paid up.

And is not the land thus sold by being transferred from a public body to
private individuals, more withdrawn from public control for the furtherance
of public purposes, than it Was previous to the sale ? Undoubtedly so.

Has rt ever occured to you that provision might be made for the
clergy with equal advantage to that body, and without such injury to the
public, as you have just alluded, by appropfiating to the clergy a pro-
portion of the receipts for all sales of Crown Lands, instead of reserving
any portion of the land for further sale on their account ? It never has,
but I think that system would be a far better one.

The great objection to clergy reserves upon the old plan, and even
upon the present plan, is, that the sy^ein opposes obstacles, to com-
munication and settlement, by leaving great masses of wild land between
spots that have been settled ; But this objection is not confined to the
clergy reserve system ? No, the objection applies generally ; and most
particularly to the large free grants which have been made in exception
to existing regulations. Those grants have been suffered to remain with-
out any other roads than those which may have been cut through them
at the public expense ; no pains have been taken, even after such roads
have been made, to afford sufficient facilities to settlers to keep them
open, and the consequence has been, that after a few years, the roads
have in many instances become impracticable, and the object for which
they were intended has been defeated. The circumstances which led to
the opening of roads at the public expense, viz the desire of settlers at a
distance to have an easy communication with the large towns, produced
a series of complaints which induced the Assembly of the Province to
investigate the matter, and the government, through its representation,
to adopt a measure with a view to the correction of Iho evil.

What was that measure ? The cstablUhment of the Court ot Escheat,
^'hich tuiik pliicc in IH'JO or ]K'27. 'V\m court was egtnbliHhcd to cii-
quirv into Iho i'liKilnifut oi tin- conditions attuirlii-d to ^runtH of htnd, nnd,
upon inquest, itnd finding thut tlic conditions liiul not been i'ultilled, to
declare the land forteitcd to the Crown. Scnnc inquests were held in the
district of Quebec, wliich, owing to tlie non-observiince of some technicul
proceedings, arc Htill in abeyuncu. Otheni took place relating to land in
the district of St. Frnncis. The Kndings under these latter inijticsts
and the ^vhole of the proceedings were (|uaHhcd on kouu* point of iorni.

I Ins any wild land, private properly, been escheated to the crown under
the proeeedingH of this court? None tiiially.

Does the court still exist i I understand not.

How long did it exist ? About nine years.

And was totally inoperative i' With the exception I have mentioned
it was.

I mean inoperative so far ns diminishing the evil wliich the court was
intended to remedy f In that view it bu.s been (]uite inoperative.

Did the cstubiisliment of this court occasion any expense / But little
beyond the expense of the salary of the jud^e and cIciU.

Hy whom were the proceedings of this court stt aside f Hy the Court of
King's IJeneh at Sherbrooke, as related to the in(|uests respecting land in
the district of St Francis, and the proceedings at Quebec arc suspended.

Was this court popular ? By no means.

Not with any class of persons \' With none.

Upon what ground was it unpopular ? It was considered unnecessary
by the lawyers who said that the exi.sting laws of the country were suffi-
cient, and that many of its provisions could not be legally carried into
efiect.

Could it have been unpopular with those who liJid loudly complained
of the nuisance which it was intended to abate i I'his is a (|uestion I
cannot fairly answer, till I have conversed with those people on the sub.
ject. But it may be inferred that the opinions entertained by the mem-
bers of the bar, may have had some effect upon them likewise.

When this court was established, did not many persons of influence in
the province, including persons liigh in ollice, hold grants of land as to
which the conditions had not been performed ? Tliat 1 believe to liave
been the case.

And if the object of the supreme government in establishing this court
had been accomplished, such persons must have forfeited their grants ?
Yes.

T conclude that excepting land which has been sold of late years, con-
ditions of one sort or another have been attached to all grants, not except-
ing the grants of seigniories, to which the obligation of concession was
attached ? Sj I understand.

Except by establishing the court of escheats, has any attempt been
made by the crown to resume land held upon conditions not fulfilled, and
liable to forfeiture for non-fulliiliiient of the conditions? There have
been some instances of summary resumption in the case of siiuill tracts of
land held under location tickets, but no attempt of the sort has been made
with respect to land held under patent.

Js there not at this moment a large quantity of land held in ;lic pro-
vince under letters patent, in respect of wliich the condilious have not
been fulfilled ? Very large tracts.

.1.11 il!
l«i I

I 'J

Court of Efoheat,
C8tiil)litthc(l lo en-
aiitH ol IhiuI, nnd,
t Ijtcii fulfilled, to
Is were held in the
of some feehnicul
relming to land in
se liitler in(|Mcsts
'|ioint of form,
u tliu crown under

I liavc mentioned

ieli (he court was

"iH-ralive.

•eiise / But little

? Uy the Court of
respecting land in
:c are suspended.

lered unnecessary
juntry were suffi-
gally carried into

•udly complained
is is a question I
eopleon the sub-
iied by tiie mein-
wise.

s of influence in
lilts of land as to
I believe to have

ishing (his court
ed their grants?

late years, con-
ants, not except-
' concession was

iy attempt been
ot fulfilled, and
? 'iliere have
)f ftinall (rae(sof
I has been made

^'Id ill Jie pro-
tiiiioiis have not

And which therefore legally Hpcaking, the crown in entitled torcsumcf
Yes.

What would be fhe objccdon to the resumption of tbrsi- lands by tho
crown f Interfering wilh the rightfl ol second and third par(ies who may
have purcha«cd from the ori<:inai grantees.

But the second and third parte* ronlii not have purchased rights which
the original grantees did f't possess ' True, but when the conditions
have been allowed 'o remain utifiilfilled lor a period of doin twenty (o
forty years without .m interlercnre on the jiart of the crown, e<piitablc
considerations may nrist , vvhieh would lorl'i'l a rigid enlorceinent of the
legal rights of the crown.

You think (bat etpiitably speaking, there has been a !.i(it abandonment
of the rights of (he crown? To a certain extent Hut it stcni8(|uitc
fair that the crown should now adopt some mode of calling upon the par*
ties to fulfil the original conditions within some BpC( ified time, or to forfeit
the land.

That, I suppose is just what would have been effected by the court of
escheats, if it bad been nllowed to operate ? Such I believe would have
been the result.

You stated in answer to a former question, that (be plan of selling
had been strictly enforced, wi(h the exception of private sales between the
annual public sales : have the regulations as to advertisements and the
time and manner of payment, being always strictly observed I They
have, with the exception of the di-jtrict of Gaspd, where the regulation
of advertising the sale in the newi>papcr, does not appear to have been
attended to.

Has the direction as to the time and mode of payment, been always
strictly attended to f As respects the first payment it has, except in tho
district of Gaspc, wherfc in I83G, the agent sold 90,000 acres, taking
payment in bills at thirty or sixty days date instead of ready money,
which bills were protested.

Have all the instalments besides the first been paid in all cases P Not
in all.

Are the cases many in which the subsequent instalments remain un-
paid ? I do not consider the proportion of persons in arrear to be very
great, but will make out an exact statement on the subject.

In those cases has the land been resumed ? Not in any instance.

Nor assigned to the grantee ? No.

It remains therefore neither the property of thecrcwn nor the property
of the grantee ; not appropriated nor open to appropriation ; in a wild
state and tabooed as it were against settlement ? It remains so far (he
property of the crown, that it may proceed by ejectment against (be pur-
chaser, leaving to him to prove the sale. Its remaining wild will in a
great measure depend on the extent of the purchase made : large pur-
chasers generally have not been much in arrear.

Has any proceeding of ejectment been commenced ? Not any.
Or attempted ? No.

Or contemplated ? I caused a list of all persons in arrear to be pub-
lished about eighteen months since, with a view of soliciting the permis-
Bion of the Governcr to proceed against those who might be greatly in
arrear , but the state of the country since has been such as to prevent my
following it up.

You have said already that the auction is liltlc more than a form, the

t»|^Ml price being in almost all cases th« MlVifng pfice : is the auction as a
form, in any way inconvenient i No.

Suppose a person just arrived from England with his family, and desir.
OU8 to purchase a tract of land for immediate settlement, would not the
auction compel him to wait a considerable time before he could obtain the
land .' Ill case such a person applied for a special sale, and his ap|>lica-
tion were favorably entertained by the Governor, he would only have to
wait two months for the advertisement of the sale.

And if his application were not favorably entertained by the Governor,
be would have to wait until the next annual sale, unless he chose to
purchase land which had been already put up for sale, but not sold at a
previous auction ? Yes.

And the possibility of his being overbid, either at the special sale or at
the annual sale, would leave him all the while in a state of uncertainty
as to whether he should finally obtain the land selected by him i Cer-
tainly.

It appears therefore, that if there were a brisk demand for Crovsn
Louds, the plan of auction would occasion considerable inconvenience \
It would occasion inconvenience certainly, but it must necessarily be
replaced in the out agencies by some system of pul)licity to prevent acts
of favoritism. I know nn other advantage obtained by selling by unction
at an upset price, rather than at a fixed price, except the publicity which
it secures.

Then provided tlie publicity were the f^ime, you thnik that a fixed
price would be preferable to auction at au upset priee ? I do.

In what way is the crown property of limber dis|J08ed of i The prac-
tice is aonually to cbtain an authority from the Governor to offer for sale
licences to cut timber upon waste hinu!i, tlie properly of the crown, for
the ensuing year at an upset price.

Under what authority are these sales made ? under the Treasury
instructions of November, 18*26.

By whom is the upset price determined? It was originally by the
Treasury in England, subject to alteration at tine diticietion of the Go-
vernor. Last year an advance of 'i[y per cent, was made by the Governor
in respsct of saw. logs.

What are the terms upon which licences ate granted ? One fourth
part of tlie purchase money is to be paid at the time of sale, and the par.
ties enter nto a bond for the payment of the remainder on the first of
October on the following year.

In what manner is the sale conducted ? In the public notice of sale,
parties desirous of purchasing are directed to state the district and quan-
tity for whicli they wish to obtain a license. These statements or tenders
are made public at the lime of sale, and if there is no advance, the license
issues for the party applying for it.

Do cases often happen in which an advance is made upon the upset
price ? There has been only one case that I am aware of in which any
advance has been offered, and in that case the party not being prejiared
to pay the first instalment, no sale was made.

Then the auction is really nominal ? Yes ; the only advantage attend-
ing it being, that the publicity given to the sale affords an opportunity
to ail the lumber merchants to know the timber berth that each has
selected.

Have the Treasury instructions been uniformly pursued in regard to

is tlie auction as a

s family, and desir.
ent, would not the
lie could obtain the
'. and his applica-
vould only have to

d by the Governor,
unless he chose to
J, but not sold at a

special sale or at
tate of uncertainty
d by him i" Cer-

rlemanil for Crown
bic inconvenience .'
lust necessarily be
ity to prevent acts
selling by luicfion
the publicily which

thnik that a lixed

I do.
<l of ? The prac-
lor to offer for sale
y of the crown, for

ider the Treasury

IS originally by the
LTction of ibe Go-
2 hy the Governor

ed ? One fourth
sale, and the par.
ler on the first of

jlic notice of sale,
'Strict and quan.
ements or tenders
vance, the license

' upon tlie upset
■ of in which any
t being prepared

dvantagc altend-
s an opportunity
» that each has

icd in regard to

these licences ? No, during the administration of Sir James Kempt,
Bonic of tlie lumber merchants represented, that the rivers down which
they wished to float timber, were so obstructed, as to require a con-
siderable expense in making slides and improving the navigation, and
requesting a grant of money for that purpose. This recpiest was refused,
but the Governor iironiised the exclusive right of cutting limber for seven
years, upon any such river, to any jicrson who woulil undertake to open
it, upon payment for tne timl)cr cut at the rate fixed by the Treasury
instructions. Under this promise exclusive rights have been acquired
by Mr. Hamilton, on the river llougc ; Mr. Price on the river du Sud ;
Messrs. Wright and others on the Gatincau, and by the Hudson's \\i\j
Company within tlic King's Posts.

What security have you that a larger amount of timber than that for
which the license is obtained, sliould not be cut under the authority of the
license .' Upon the Ottawa tiiere is a tolerably effectual check, under an
arrangement between llie executive governmtnts of this province and
Upper Canada. In Gaspc the agent visits the berths personally, and by
comparing the quantity shipped at the Custom House with what he has
observed, perfects his checks. In the other par(s of the province, whera
saw logs are principally cut, the returns of the merchants have been gene-
rally accepted as sufficient, the character of these gentlemen is considered
Bs a sullicient guarantee. Upon the whole the checks arc imperfed,
but 1 believe that the real cause of their imperfection has been the un-
certainty of the continuance of the present system of timber duties in
England.

According to the price for timber licences, under the Treasury instruc-
tions, may it not be cheaper to purchase land for the sake of the timber,
merely than to pay for a license ? It may be so, and an instance came to
my knowledge of an attempt of the kind in the newly surveyed townships
of Wakefield, which 1 however defeated, by directing the agent not to
accept bids, except from persons that he believed to be intended settlers.

Have you then power of rejecting an ofter to purchase lands made at a
public auction ? Under the conditions of sale publicly read by the agent,
no sale is valid until confirmed by the commissioner of crown lands.

Do you imagine that any land has been purchased with this intention ?
1 could not say that no land has been purchased with this view, but as no
sales have been made except in surveyed townships, 1 cannot bring my-
self to believe that they have been made to any great extent.

Have you not reason to suppose that the purchase of i)(),()00 acres, to
which you have referred in Gaspfi, was made with that intention ? It was
avowedly so ; I was my.self informal so by the purchasers.

What was the |)ricc per acre at which this land was sold ? Varying
from one shilling and eight pence to four shillings per acre.

Is there much land the property of the crown, upon which people
have settled unlawfully, or as it is commonly called sciuattcd ? There
are sciuatlers upon the crown property to some extent, but not in siiiruient
numbers to occasion any great dilVicully in arranging w'lih them; for from
wliat I understand on the subject, they all cxpcet to pay for their laud,
but ti) have the benefit of pre-emption.

What do you imagine are the grounds upon which they have formed
tliis expectation ? Not certainly from any thing tiiat has" been lielil out
lo them ; but there is a general feeling amongst people of that class, lliat,
when they have reclaimed wild land, they are entitled in ciiuity to that
degree of consideration on the part of government.

ikli III

lit i!

They have then no other grounds for the expectation than their own
opinion, that it would be but equitable in the government to depart from
the present regulation in their favor ? None, most certainly, that I am
aware of.

You spoke just now of arranging with them without any great difficulty:
to what sort of arrangement do you allude ? That they would willingly
conform to any terms of purchase that the government njight propose.

Has an arrangement been made wiih any of tbefii ? I hhould rather
think that some of them must have come in among persons who have
been considered as tenants and occupiers of lots, and who have been al-
lowed by the governor to purchase without being exposed to the compe-
tition and publicity of an auction.

Has that been a common practice? It is ft matter of right in the
former class, under the Treasury instructions of February, 182(J.

But directly contrary to Lord Goderich's instructions of 1831, which
require that no land should be dis|;osed of except at public auction ?
The reading given to those instructions here has been as only applying
to waste and unoccupied lands.

liut whether or not contrary to Lord Goderich's instructions, this mode
of disposing of crown lands is another method, exceptional from the
general rule of public sale by auction, in addition to the numerous ex-
ceptions which you have already mentioned ? It is, and 1 should have
enumerated it amongst the others, had it not formed part of what have
been considered the existing regulations.

Returning to the squatters, arc the cases many in which the crown has
forced such persons to purchase the lands occupied by ihcm ? In no
instance that I am aware of, has the crown forced them.

Has the crown ever attempted to eject any of them ? 1 believe not.

You said that many of the squatters might have been considered as
tenants and occupiers, and might have |)urchased their land in that char-
acter, without being subject to auction ; but if they are considorcd ten-
ants and occupiers under the crown, how could they be considered as
squatters, when the essential characteristic of a squatter, is, that he oc-
cupies without a title? My answer must be understood as not ajiplying
to tenants ; but that I find in the list approved by the governor, of
persons allowed to purchase, without being subject to auction, the term
occupier, as well as that of tenant, and I therefore suppose, but without
any positive knowledge on the subject, that it may have been used
to cover cases of squatters who had really improved their farms to a con-
siderable extent.

But if so, it must have been directly in breach of the Treasury instruc-
tions of 1826, and Lord Goderich's instructions of 1831 ? 1 give the
practice as it has obtained.

Do yon imagine that any large proportion of persons occupyin^jf with-
out any title at all, have been treated as though they v.cic occupy-
ing under a perfect legal title ? My impression is certainly not.

What sort of arrangement would you purpose to come lo, with squat-
ters upon crown lands ? By allowing them to purchase at :; (ixc-d rate ;
but I allude only to those who have really improved their lands, and
may be considered as bona fide settlers.

But if they should be disposed to hold their land as at prcscwt witiiout
payment, rather than to pay for them, what course would you propose
to adopt i I should proceed against them by ejectment.

i
4

4
i

■a

on than their own
lent to depart from
:ertainly, that I am

iny great difficulty:
ity would willingly
t Mjiglit propose.

? I should rather
; persons who have

who have been al-
3sed to the corape-

ler of riyht in the
ry, 182(;.

)ns of 18-31, which

public auction ?

n as only applying

uctions, tills mode
cptioiial from the
the numerous ex-
aiid 1 should have
Jiart of what have

hich the crown has
by ihcm ? la no

1 believe not.
teen considered as

land in that char-
re con.sidficd ten-
' be considered as
er, is, that he oc-
)d as not ajiplying

the governor, of
uction, the term
ipose, but without
■ have been used
^ir farms to a con-

Trer.sury instruc-
il ] 1 give the

occiipyin,<r ^yith-
3y were occupy-
nly not.

ne lo, with squat-
c at ;i fixed rate ;

llicir lands, and

t present witiiout
nild \ ju propose

W
It

Would the process of ejectment against settlers on crown lands be easy
of execution ? I see no difficulty in it.

Are the crown lands upcm which squatters have established themselves,
well ;:.scertained under the surveys of the Crown Lands De|)artment 1 To
say that they are, would be to admit thet the surveys of townships
could in every instance, be depended upon. As far as my experience
goes, the contrary is unfortunately the case.

Would there be, generally speaking, much difficulty in proving to the
satisfaction of a court, what was crown land upon which squatters had
established themselves ? I should apprehend no difficulty there, because
the burthen of the proof would lay with the squatters, unless the validity
of the surveys could be called in question.

Generally speaking, do you suppose the surveys to be correct ? I
apprehe.id that they arc not.

But the alleged scjuatter's proof must necessarily, must it not, be drawn
from the surveys ? I should imagine so.

Could he have any other means of identifying the land claimed by
him ? I presume not, but 1 must qualify my answer, by saying, that
the question borders on points of law, upon which I am not competent to
oH'er an opinion.

Supposing that the onus prohandi as to title rested with the crown,
how would the crown shew that the land in question had not been grant-
ed ? By a technical description of the lot or tract taken from the survey
as made.

That is supposing the surveys to be accurate ; arc they, do you believe
inaccurate to any great extent ? I can instance two town.sliips, ShcHord
and Orford, (and how many more may prove inaccurate as questions of
boundary arise, it is impossible to say) which are very inaccurate in their
subdivision.

Inaccurate in what respect, and to what extent ? On actual recent
survey, it has been found that no one lot agrees with the the diagram on
record.

Was the diagram made from actual survey ? It purports to be made
from actual survey.

By whom was the recent survey made ? Tliat of Shefford, by Mr.
Wells, and that of Orford, by Mr. Wyss ; both of them Deputy Pro-
vincial surveyors, and considered persons who stand high in their pro-
fession.

To what extent do the lots differ from the diagram on record ? The
lines dividing the lots, instead of running perpendicularly (iccorcling to
the diagram, actually run diagonally. The efluct of which is neeesarily
to displace the whole of the lots, upwards of 300 in number, lioiu their
true position. The lines dividing the ranges are so irregular, as to give
to some lots two and a half times the contents of otliers, tiu)uj;Ii lliey are
all laid down in the diagram as of equal extent. There arc lakes also,
which occupy nearly the whole of some lots, that are entirely omitted.

From which it would appear, that the diagram was ;)rtpare l v\ithout
any actual survey at ail? I have heard it repeatedly sta;e(l, fi .1 it was
"•enerally believed, that in many instances, during the eaily Mnvcys, if
the surveyor did run the outlines of the townships, he was cun i issioned
to survey, it was as much as was ever done, and the whole o' lie field
notes and subdivision was mere fiction.

I 'i

I i •

You have spoken of ShefTord and Orford ; are there any other town-
ships as to which means of comparison exist between the diagram ex-
isting in your department and the actual subdivision of the townships <
I have not seen any, hut have heard complaints of a similar nature, res-
pecting the township of Grenville, but tliey have not come before me ic
an official shape.

What reason have you for supposing that the surveys of other town-
ships may have been more accurate than tjjose of Shefiord and Orford ?
I have no reason for believing that they are, other than that, in sonn
parts of the country, the same causes of error may not have existed
either physical causes, such as that of magnetic attraction, where theo
really was a survey, or, in cases where there was no actual survey, tin
negligence of the surveyor.

Are the old French surveys of the seigniories supposed to be accurate ?
I have never heard them complained of, and I believe that their accuracy
is undoubted.

The inaccuracies, therefore, of which you have spoken, is confined tc
tliat part of the province which has been divided uito townships. About
what extent of country is comprised in that description ? There are lOS
townships, of about 10 square miles.

Including all the land which has been disposed of by the Britisl
Government, sxcept the seigniories which were erected by that govern-
ment shortly after the conquest? Yes.

It appears that similar difficulties to those which might arise in setllinj
a question of title between the crown and an alleged squatter, arising froin
the inaccuracy of the township surveys, would extend to all grants ami
sales by the crown ? They would.

And also the question of title between persons claiming to have a gran;
or to have purchased from the crown, and alledged squatters upon the lam
asserted to be theirs ? Undoubtedly.

And also to all cases in which different persons should claim to have
received, or purchased the same piece of land for the crown ? Yes, men
or less.

Is it not considered that this slate of the crown surveys must prove a
source of interminable litigation hereafter 1 It is a general observation-
Considering the state of the surveying department, may it not havt
happened that the same land has been granted or sold to more than om
person ? The granting the same land to more than one person, is ar.
error in which the Surveyor General has his full part ; but other officer-
of the land-granting department, under the system which obtained till las;
October, and whose duty it was to audit the patents for the purpose o;
preventing such occurences are eqally to blame.

You are alluding now to double grants wherein the error is plain upop
the face of the patents ; that is where the same lot nomination has beer.
granted to different persons ? I am.

But I alluded to double grants of the same land, under different desig-
nations, arising from the defective state of the survey ? How many o!
these may arise, it is impossible to say.

Have any such cases been discovered ? None have come before nie
in an official shape, but I apprehend that questions of that nature are
■waiting, in great numbers, until land shall have become more valuable
where the crown will be called in
grant.

upon every occasion to defend its own

ere any other town-
en the diagram ex-
ti of the townships '
simihir nature, res-
t come hefore me ic

rveys of other town-
licfford and Orford }
tiian that, in somi
Y not have existed
•action, wliere then

actual survey, tin

ised to he accurate ?
3 that their accuracy

)oken, is confined tc

townslups. Abou;

in ? There are iOi

1 of by the British
ted by that govern.

ght

arise in settling

ter, arising froii;

all grants ami

ling to have a gran;
latters upon the lant

hould claim to have
crown ? Yes, mor«

jrveys must prove j
neral observation,
lit, may it not havt
to more than om
in one person, is ai.
but other officer-
ich obtained till las;
for the purpose o;

error is plain upon
lomination has beer.

ider different desig-
y ? How many o(

ve come before nie

of that nature are

3ine more valuable

1 to defend its own

And considering the state of the surveys will be without tlic iiuans of
such defence? Unless measures to prevent the evil should be !iil()|)lc(l
before its occurrence.

You appear to consider this as a subject of very high importance, and
demanding the immediate attention of government? I do in common
with every person who has ever reflected on the subject.

In the neighbourhood of granted lands, or lands purportin;; to i)c
granted, j'our department must, I suppose, often be at a loss to know
what land has been granted, and what remains the property of tlic ciowii?
Since we have been satisfied of the probable inaccuracy of tiic surveys
and of the little reliance to be placed on the diagrams, an uii|)lc;is:int
feeling of responsibility has arisen upon this subjuct.

That is a feeling of fear, lest you should dispose of land already disposed
of ? Precisely so.

And on the other hand it may also be feared, I conclude, that the
crown should leave in the hands of private persons, land wliicli rciiily be-
longs to tho public ? The one is just as liable to take place as the otliir.

It appears by a return from your department, that in ls:33 and l?-.il,
the remission of purchase money, or as you have described it, virtual
free grants, under the form of remitting the purchase money, was not
confined to officers in the army and navy, but that tlie ptircluisc noncy was
remitted to others under an authority from the Governor, or .'^ocictary oi'
State ? There were two such remissions, the one to Mr. Christie, ihc
chairman of the Quarter Sessions at Quebec, and theothcr to Mr. Coim,
chairman of the Quarter SesMons at Three-Rivers, in lieu of anvais di
salary due to them, and for which the Provincial Legislature hal ri.ru>cJ
to provide.

Are the British North American Land Company supposed to lui\ e
selected the most valuable lands open to appropriation in what is coui-
monly called the Eastern Township's District ? Yes.

Including crown reserves in the settled townships ? Yes.

And the price that they paid, was less than the then upset i>ri(c, nny
where in that district ? Yes, with the exception of four townships, in
which the upset price appears to have been four shillings currency per
acre, while the price paid by the British American Land Company lor
their surveyed lands, was understood to be three shillings and si.\ pence
sterling.

How much less ? In three of the remaining townships, the upset price
appears to have been seven and six pence per acre, and in the fifteen
others, five shillings.

They also had a longer credit than was given to any other purchasers ?
Yes.

Was it considered at the time that they had to pay more or less than
the price which they would have had to pay, it the land had been sub-
mitted to public auction, according to the existing regulations ? I my-
self considered that they had agreed to pay less than that price, and I
believe such was the general opinion.

This property has naturally deteriorated in value, in consequence of
the recent rebellion in this province ? I do not think so, at least, not
permanently.

Is there not a proposal now before your department, from a company
formed in this province, and comprising gentlemen of wealth and the
highest respectability, whereby the Government is requested to sell

225,000 acres of land in the county of Megantic, adjoining to the tract
of the British North American Land Company, but not of a superior
soil, or in a superior position, and not comprising any crown reserves,
at the same price, and upon the same terms in all respects as those which
formed the conditions of the grant to the British North American Land
Company? I am aware that a petition of the nature to which you allude,
and signed as you stated by persons of high respectability and standing,
for the tract in question, has been presented to His Excellency
the Governor General, but it has not been formally transmitted to the
land department.

iningto the tract
ot of a superior
"i crown reserves,
cts as those which
I American Land
>vhicli you allude,
ity and standing,
His Excellency
ransmittedto the

James Hastings Kerr, Esquire.

It is understood that you have had considerable opportunities of becom-
ing acquainted with the state of landed projicrty in this Province ? I
have, particularly with regard to township land.

Be so good a3 to stale in what way you have obtained that information ?
As an agent employed by many persons interested in the lands of the
province.

During how many years liave you had these opportunities ? During
the last eight years.

You may naturally have had occasion to reflect upon the difTerent me-
thods which have been pursued by the crown in this colony, for the dis-
posal of the public land ; to compare them with each other, and to form
some opinion as to their general operation, whether beneficial or other-
wise ? I have ; I consider none of the plans that have been adopted by
the crown, as likely to lead to an extensive settlement of the crown
lands.

Be so good as to state your view of the operation of the system of lead-
ers and associates ? 1 can only state it to have been a disgraceful sys-
tem, or rather practice. The associates were generally persons residing
in the United States, and frequently the leaders resided there also. The
object with which the system of disposing of crown lands, underwhich this
practice arose was devised, appears by thefollowin<j: passage in theoriginal
instructions framed for the grants of land in the province, section 51,
which states that " great inconveniences have heretofore arisen in many
" parts of the colonies of America, from the granting excessive quantities
" of land to particular persons who have never cultivated them, and have
" thereby prevented others more industrious from improving such lands."
The object therefore was the settlement of the country, by means of put-
ting a stop to grants of land to persons who would not improve it. The
effect, however, has been, that the leader in almost every case, became
possessed of nearly the whole, if not of the entire quarter, or half, or whole
township granted to him and his associates, and the land thus obtained
has been in most instances, excepting in a few of the frontier townships,
some of which contain a large population, withheld from settlement up to
the present time unless squatted upon.

Have these grants ever since presented a serious impediment to the
settlement of the country ? Very serious.

And do so still ] Yes ; for many of the large holders refuse to sell at

value of their lands being increased

at
land

reasonable rates, trusting to the

the settlements going on around. In some cases a tract of wild
may lay between a back settlement and a road, as in the townships of
Tingwick, Halifax, Simpson, Wendover, and many others. In these
cases the inhabitants are entirely cut oft* from the road, and cannot even
make a road for themselves without being liable to an action of trespass ;
besides which the expense of making such a road would of itself
suffice to deter them. In addition to this, tb.cse wastes serve as a har-
bour for wolves, which a short time since so infested the various districts
of the province, that an act of the Legislature passed giving a bounty
upon the killing of a wolf Similar inconveniences have arisen from the
system of Crown and Clergy Reserves, which accompanied that of town-
ship leaders and associates. The evil resulting from the Crown and
Clergy Reserves, has been removed by the alteration of the system, by

I'l W"

which the Crown and Clergy Reserves have been made open to sale.—
The inconvenience arising from the excessive grants still remains.

Does the word inconvenience sufliciently express the nature of the
evil ? No ; and I hardly know what word to use that would be strong
enough to express it, About 1809 or 1810, the system of leaders and
associates was discontinued, and for some time afterwards there appears
to have been scarcely any land granted. In about I8IG the system ol
granting upon location tickets was introduced. Under this system the set-
tler was required to perform settlement duties before he could obtain a
title to bis land, but these duties in the manner in which they were per-
formed, rather deteriorated than improved the condition of the land. —
The settler cut down and burnt his four acres and built his hut, and then
obtained his title and abandoned the land.

Did the system of location tickets add much to the quantity of land
alienated by the crown, and not yet settled ? It did, but at the sn me
time much settlement actually took place on the Ottawa and in the
eastern townships, under this system. The location system was followed
by a system of sale, as directed by the Treasury instructions of 182(i. —
This system induced many of the squatters to purchase a title to the
lands they occupied, but few actual settlers purchased land with a view
to settlement. The chief purchases have been made by persons of
property with a view to speculation, under the impression that it wutild
pay very good interest for the money invested at some i'uture day.

In this way therefore, the extent of private property still in a wild
state, has been considerably augmented ? Yes.

You are aware, concurrently with the plan of selling, free grants to a
great extent were also made ? No ; excepting inider pledges made by
the Government before the system of sale was introduced.

But the fact has been that free grants were made at the same lime
that the system of sale was pursued ? Yes, it basso been.

Do you think that the plan of selling would have been more effectual,
if the Government had been able to stop all free grants, from the period
of its introduction? .More land might have been sold, but probably
only to speculators.

The price then appears to have been too low, to deter speculators from
purchasing with no view to actual settlement ? Yes ; it was so in many
of the townships.

The upset price was fixed by the government,' on the recommendation
of the commissioner of crowti {^.nds, and different in different townships.
Do you think that the upset price was suitable (o the particular circum-
stances of each township ? No ; iii some cases the price was too high,
and in others too low.

Too high or too low in reference to what 1 To locality, the neigh-
bourhood of settlement ; and the quality of land ; on the Ottawa, par-
ticularly too high in reference to the means of settlers.

Do you consider the system at present in force for the disposal of
crown lands, to be efficient with a view to the settlement and improve-
ment of the province ; or are there any points in which you consider the
system defective ] I do not consider the system efficient, but defective
in the following points. In the first place there is not sufficient liberty
of selection, tinder the present system, that land only is obtainable by
individuals generally, which has been selected for the annual sales. j"t
is the government in fact which determines what land shall be open for
purchase.

le open to sale.— .
11 remains,
lie nature of the
at would be strong
m of leaders and
ards there appears
81 G the system ol
his system the set-
le could obtain a
lich they were per-
il of the land.—
his hut, and then

quantity of land
J, but at the snnie
tawa and in the
stem wa.s followed
tions of 182(j.—
base a title to the
and with a view
e by persons of
;>n that it would
uture day.
i still in a wild

free grants to a
ledges made by

t the same lime

sn.

I more effectual,

from the period

d, but probably

speculators from
: was so in many

recommendation
'rent townships,
irticular circum«
:3e was too high,

lity, the neigh-
e Ottawa, par-

the disposal of
'■ and improve.
ou consider the
, but defective
sufHcient liberty
s obtainable by
nual sales, j't
all be open for

Wl»t branch of the government ? The Governor.

But from his own knowledge or that of other persons ? Upon the re-
commendation of the commissioner of crown lands.

So that in point of fact it is the commissioner of crown lands who
determines what land shall be open for appropriation ? Yes.

Does he decide upon local knowledge ? I should say not. I do not
know what local knowledge a man can have, who has not visited the sec-
tions of the country where the lands are put up.

Then, upon what grounds do you imagine his decision to be formed 'f
I cannot tell you. In some instances perhaps upon application from in-
dividuals, in others merely from the dictate of his own will.

But upon special application, individuals may acquire land which has
not been included in any annual sale ? They may occasionally, but such
applications must be referred to the Governor, who has hitherto decided
upon them according to the recommendation of the Commissioner of
Crown Lands, who might not have approved of the application. Such ap-
plications may have succeeded, but they may not, and there is no
certainty.

Are you at all aware of the grounds upon which such applications are
made ? No, it is but very seldom any reason is assigned, but the gene-
ral answer in case of refusal is, that " His Excellency docs not con-
" sider it expedient to comply with the request." ISIuch depends upon
the perseverance of the agent. I have in many instances not been con-
tent with the first refusal, particularly as to free grants, and have in many
of those cases procured a revisal of the first decision.

Was your importunity addressed to the Governor, or to the commis-
sioner of crown lands ? To the Governor himself, but my remon-
strances were always sent to the commissioner to report upon.

You are speaking now of the practice which prevailed up to August,
1836, since then the facilities have been greater ? Much greater.

To what do you attribute such increased facility ? In part to the power
berng in the hands of a board instead of a single individual, and in part
to the greater accessibility of the Commissioners of Crown Lands.

All power seems however to be really in the discretion of the Commis-
sioner of Crown Lands ? Hitherto entirely so.

The power of the Commissioner seems not to have been confined to the
subject now in question, but to have extended over every part of the
system for the disposal of lands ? It has so, especially in the time of the
late Commissioner, whose decisions, in almost every case, were confirmed
by the government.

I suppose that in fact the late Commissioner had the power of with-
holding or granting just what land he pleased ? He certainly had.

How did his exercise of that power affect the disposal of crown lands ?
In many instances to the prejudice of individuals, and in very many to the
obstruction of the settlement of the country.

The same power seems to exist now — in what respects is it differently
exercised ? With greater discretion, and the decisions appear to be less
arbitrary, that is, more reasonable ; and more attention seems to be paid
to the public interests.

Are these all the defects you have to notice ? No ; there is consider-
able uncertainty on the part of the intending settlor, as to his obtaining
the land which he has selected. This is occasioned by the plan of selling
by aufction. The person desirous to obtain land included in any annual

■ ,

sale, may after waiting for the sule, tiiidluinself^verbid, and may thus
not obtain the land upon which he hud tixed. And agitin, in the
case of an unserveyed tract, after incurring the expense of tlic survey, he
may be overbid by some otlier person wl\o has not incurred any portion
of that exiJcnse. It is true that in such cases theexpen.se of the survey
would be refunded to him, but the trouble and anxiety he has incurred
will be of no avail.

Does this operate practically as a check to applications for land P It
must do so, since it introduces an uncertainty us to whether an individual
who has incurred trouble and expense will reap the reward. I may men.
tion as an instance, that in the township of Gosford, in which several
ranges were surveyed, and laid ofi' upon special application from indivi-
duals, and at their expense, I attended the sale in May, 1837, in com.
pany with another gentleman. The upset price was one shilling and
three pence per acre, and we, seeing that the land was likely to be sold
for a low price, bid for 9,000 acres, at the average price of two shillings
and three pence per acre, at which price it was knocked down to us. —
Other persons, not being of the special applicants, bought some of the
land at prices varying from one shilling and six pence to five shillings
per acre, and the special applicants did not obtain more than about one-
tenth, I should think of the land comprised in their applicp.tioR. This
case strongly illustrates the inconvenience to which I have rtftr/ed, and
one case of this sort would operate, to a very great extent, to U'jttr indi-
viduals from making similar applications. The expense o> the survey
was repaid to these special applicants, but not immediately. I have also
to mention the delays occasioned by the system of auction. In order
that auction should have any effect at all, there must be a notice, which
necessarily requires time. In the case of special applications for unsur-
veyed land, or for land not included in the annual sales, the applicant
must wait, after his application has been acceded to, and after the survey
has been made, till the auction takes place, of which notice is required of
from a fortnight to six weeks. In the case of l-ads included in the
annual sale, the applicant must wait either for the annual sale or for the
monthly sales, for the lands wliich have not been disposed of at the an-
nual sales. In the case of land which has not been put up for sale, but
which is intended to be included in the next annual sale, the intending
purchaser must wait till the next anaual sale, which may be for any
portion of a year.

Is all land which has not beeen disposed of at the annual sale, put up
at the next monthly sale ? No, that is not the case ; upon one occa-
sion I wished to obtain some land whichhad been put up for sale, but not
sold at an annual sale, but had to wait several months till an auction
took place.

fiut the general practice is to put up for sale, at a monthly auction,
the land which has not been sold at the yearly auction ? Yes, in some
townships, but in others there is no agent, and no montJdy sales take
place.

Inthese other townships, therefore, the persons desirous of obtaining
land, included in annual sales, must wait for the next annual sale ? Yes
in the ordinary course ; but upon special application, the agent nearest
to the spot might perhaps be appointed agient for that township, and he
might then pot up the land to auction on the day fixed for monthly sales,
within his agency.

'5
Ml*

.'T5

.«0

and may thus
1 ngiiin, in tlic
>i' llie survey, he
irred any portion
se of the survey
he iias incurred

s for land ? It
her an individual
I'd. I may men-
1 which several
tion from indivi-
1837, in cora-
one shilling and
kely to be sold
of two shillings
ed down to U3. —
ht some of the
to five shillings
han about one-
jplicalion. This
ave rtfc.-ied, and
, to U'jttr indi-
se oi the survey
i\y. I have also
3tion. In order
a notice, which
ations for unsur-
3, the applicant
after the survey
ce is required of
ncluded in the
sale or for the
sed of at the an-
up for sale, but
e, the intending
ay be for any

al sale, put up
pon one occa-

br sale, but not
till an auction

onthly auction.
Yes, in some
Ltiily sales take

us of obtaining
ual sale ? Yes

agent nearest
unship, and he

monthly sales,

Oftt

•vn

That is the day fixed for monthly sales, in case it was the practice tu
acll raontlily in that township ? Yes.

Have you any thing further to say on this head ? No, hut I will now
refer to the inconvenience of references to the Executive Council, upon
applications for free grants, founded upon old claims, which had not been
pursued at the time of arising.

What is that inconvenience ? Such reference^ in many cases remain
unreported upon, and neglected for months.

In such cases then, the power does not rest with the commissioner of
crown lands? No, but with the Governor in Council.

Are there any means of knowing in such cases upon what grounds the
decision upon any such reference is made ? In some cases there may be.
The proceedings before the Council are secret, but a report is made upon
each case, and such reports occasionally though but seldom, state tlie
grounds upon which any application is refused. I once endeavoured to
obtain a statement of the grounds upon which a refusal took place, but
without success.

Are the reasons ever given when the Council reports in favor of au
application for u free grant ? Yes in some .instances, but not generally.

Are applications for free grants necessarily decided by the Executive
Council ? No, they were not so in the time of the late commissioner.
Some few instances of reference took place ; but he generally recom-
mended to the Governor, either compliance or refusal, upon his own res.
ponslbility. There may have been, but I am not aware of any instance
in which his recommendation was not followed, and very rarely would
he give any reason for his refusal.

At present such applications are geperally referred to the Council : is
the rule with respect to such applications the same as it was then ? I
do not know how it can be said that any rule ever prevailed. It was and
is in the discretion of the commissioner of crown lands, to cause such
reference.

The commissioner can then still recommend to the Governor, without
the intervention of the E.xecutive Council ? Yes he can.

1 conclude, that v/hen the commissioner did not refer to the Council,
he was considered responsible for the decision ? Yes he was.

And that now the Council are held responsible for such decisions .'
Yes, upon such cases as the commissioner refers to them.

Can you give the bpard any information as to the state of the surveys ?
It is generally understood that the surveys in many of the various town-
ships are very inaccurate, and many of the surveys have been proved
so. I had in my hand the other day a patent for four lots in the town-
ship of Inverness, three of which did not exist, granted to captain Skin-
ner ; three of the lots were decided not to be in existence, and I received
compensation for them in another township. A great error was dis-
covered in the original survey of the township of Leeds.

I suppose (,hat the inaccuracy of the surveys is a matter of certainty ?
Quite a matter of certainty. I could cite you a number of townships,
Milton. Upton, Orford, Sheffqrd, &c. where the inaecuracy has been
oscertQiiieu.

Were the oldFrench surveys accurate ? They might easily have been so,
from the nature of the system, whicl> required only the front and depth
to be iiscert^ip^d, without any subdivision of the seigniories. The
subdivision fprctiiqessioD was the subsequent act of the seignior.

Has any inconvenience to anyatnniint liccn practically fill frotti tlic
inaccuracy of the British survey! ? Inconvenience lius hcen felt, but ii
is only now bcginiiin^r to be so seriously. As the settlement of (In
country mlvonccs, ana land ocquircs a greater value, ^rent inconveni-
ence must arise, in the shape of endless questions of lille, and oftlii<
mnny people arc so well aware, that t:tey refuse to sell with u giiunm.
tec of title.

Your profession as an agent includes the business) of nbtniniiig tith.
to tiic hinds as well as advising upon their selection ? It docs.

By what course of proceeding is a title obtained after a purchase lia
lieen made at the government sales ? It is not often that the purcha.v
money is paid down. The purchaser is allowed to take possession, h
what IS called u ticket of occupation, as soon as he has paid his first in.
stalmcnt. As soon as he has done this, he is referred by tlio crow
land officer, to whom tho payment is made, for patent to the Siir
vcyorGencrol for the necessary specification. Then the specificatior
upon the reference, is sent to the Commissioner of CrownLands. Thev
documents arc next sent to the secretary ofthe Governor or Civil Secre
tary, who directs the Provincial Secretary to engross tho patent ; (hi
fees arc then levied, and upon the payment of the fees, the Provinciu
Secretary engrost^cs. On engrossment being made the Governor si^fn
the patent, and the great seal of the province is attached to it ; ((hi.
signature is procured by the provincial secretary.) The patent is thei
sent to the Commissioner of Crown Lands to be audited ; at present on
of the commissioners audits ; this used to be done by the auditor, l)u:
the office of auditor has been abolished. When the audit is made, tin
title is said to be perfected. But unless the patent is audited withir
six months after (he signature, the patent is void, notwithstanding th:
Governor's signature and the seal of liio province.

How long has this system prevailed P About twelve months ; befoi-
that time the first step was a reference from the Crown Lands Office t
the Attorney General and Surveyor General, to prepare draft of paten
and specification. When the Surveyor General had prepared tho speci
fication, he returned the reference to the Crown Lands Office. Tti
Ccrown Lands Office then referred it to the Attorney General, to prepar
draft of letters patent, the Attorney General sent the draft to the Civ:
Secretory, the Civil Secretary sent it to the auditor for examination
when the Auditor returned it, the Civil Secretary sent it to the Pre
vincial Secretary for engrossment, the Provincial Secretary engrossed i
on porchraent, procured the Governor's sis^nature, and attached the grea
seat ofthe province, and then sent it to the auditor for audit, who ul'u
audit, returned it to the Provincial Secretary, with whom it remains;
record.

The old system does not appear to have been much more complicate
than the present ? It does not, the diflference is not great.

Wliat has been the efl^ect of having to refer to so many persons ? Tl,
total loss of many references, and the papers connected with them i
one or other of the offices. "There have been cases in which I was u
ferred three times for the same patents ail the papers having been lo-
twice successively. In some cases the papers were found again, b.
at too lute a period to be available.

Were such losses of frequent occurrence ? Yes, in my own e.xperieiic
of eight year.s as agent for obtaining titles, many instances have occur
red.

t;iilly fi'lt Cfum tlio
lias been felt, but n
f sctllempiit of III,
P, ^rcnl inoonvciii-
ol'jitle, (111(1 ofllii.
*cll with a giiaran.

»s of obJaihing titli,
I ? It (Iocs,
after a purcliasd h;,,
n lliat the piirchn.v

take possession, !i
has paid hi.s first in.
;rrcd by tho crow

patent to (he Siir

n the specification
rown Lands. The
irnor or Civil Sccre
■OSS tho patent ; ih

fees, the Provincia
the Governor si^rn
Hlached to it ; (dii.

Tho patent is thci
;ted ; at present on

by the auditor, hu

audit is made, tlii
It is audited withir
notwithstanding ih:

^Ive months ; befon
)wu Lands Office (
:parc draft of paten
prepared tho speci
Lands OfHce. Th
General, to prepar
5 draft to the Civi
• for examination
sent it to the Pre
:retary engrossed i
[| attached the grea
for audit, who afu
ivliom it remains (

I more complicate
j-reat.

any persons ? Tl,
cled with them i
a which I was n
I having been lo>
found again, bi.

my own experience
stances liave occur

Did tlie piincipal inrorivcnicncc consiNl in kucIi Iosics of papers?
No ; liiiTo was uUo delay arising from lln; MyMtcm.

What ts (he •thnrtcsl lime in which yon linvo known a title to bu per.
fccted ? Spcnkingl'rom nicmory, I ohduld y<ny abont <»ix weeks.

And ibc longeil time ? I lliiidv eight Noars, but I urn again xpeakiiig
from memory.

Wtis ntorn than ordinary diligciico uned in tho ra!^e of nix woek!« {
Yes, in -iicli ca^«e I obtained an order from the (Jovernor for a special
referen( liir my patent, to tuke priority of nil others then in the ollice,

\Vu.s ordinary diligence used on tlie part of the agent, in the eaxe of
eight yrnrs? \fore tli^n ordinary, for it was one of my own coses in
wliichi U!<cd every |)ossil>le exertion to gc^t the patent Ihroiij^h. The
delay was occasioned by the neglect to net uporl a traet of country
for clergy appropriations in the district of Gaspe. I have how refereticrs
for tint section of country wliieh have been lying over for six yearn
from that cause. A tract has recently been net apart inGiispu tor >ncli
appro|)riution, and 1 hope Ihiit my references may now be pro( ceded
with.

Wliat would you assign ns the nvcrugc period required for com[tleting
a title, after the purchuse has been completed by the payment of the
whole of the purchn^ie money f I should say lull tifteeii montlin.

And with ordinary diligence on the part of the agent i* Undonhl-
cdly.

What advantage is the system of so many checks supposed to present .'
I see none myself; and think that a more simple process might be
adoptrd. Very serious inconvenience is produced, and I know of nn
coimtervailiiig advantage.

The present system must be profitable to agents ] Yes, so much so,
that speaking as an agent, I should be surry to sec it ubolisiied.

I presume that one of the inconveniences to the public is the npcc*sity
or employing agents acqunintcd with the labyrinth through which each
reference has to pass .' It is, I am satisfied that the present system is
a serious impediment to the selilcment of the country, and thai no ex-
tensive mcosure for tliat purpose can work well, unless the mode of
obtaining titles after purchase be rendered much more simple. Imme-
diate despatch with title is what is required to encourage purchasers, and
prevent uncertainty and discontent. I have been directed by purchasers
to apply for the return of their purchase money from tlie crown, because
of the delay which has occurred.

Supposing the mode of obtaining a title to be rendered as simple as
possible, would any serious obstacle.in your opinion, remain to the speedy
settlement and cultivation of all the more fertile parts of the province ?
Yes; the want of main roads through many parts of the province, as
well us concession or cross roads between main roads, would naturally
deter people from settling in the wilderness.

Do you speak now of wilderness belonging to tiic crown, or of wilder-
ness the property of private individuals? Of both. There remaiiis in
several townships which are partially settled, a considerable quantity of
Clergy Reserve land and of land ungrantcd by the Crown : the main
obstacle however, is private land remaining wild, inasmuch as the land
of the Crown is open to purchase, which is not generally the case with
that of private individuals, excepting at too exorbitant a price. So injuri-
ous is the existence of this quantity of wild land in the midst or in the neigh-

bourliooil of settlement, (hat numerous cases have occurred in whicli a
settler, after several years residence upon his property, and having ex-
pended in money and labor from £20 to £50 in clearing p.»rt of it and
building his house, has been driven to abandon the farm and sell it for
one-third or even one-fourth of the sum that he had expended upon it. I
liave myself bought farms which have been abandoned in this way for (he
merest tride. One I recollect now, consisted of 100 acres in the town-
ship of Kingsey, a beautiful part of the district of Three Rivers, with rather
more than twenty acres cleared, a good house and out-houses
erected upon it, for which I paid under £30. I could give very many
instances of a similar kind where I have either purchased myself or have
had a personal knowledge of the circumstances.

Has any remedy been suggested to your mind for the evil of wild land
in the midst of settlement ? — I have always been an advocate for taxing
wild land, and have thought that, unless a tax. were imposed the set-
tlement of the country never could go on prosperously.

It would be a tax in the nature of a fine with a view to the abatement
of the nuisance ? — Yes, that should be its true cliaracter.

Would not such a tax be extremely unpopular among the holders ot
wild land ? — I think that at first it might, though not universally so,
since many holders of wild land perceive the advantages that would result
therefrom. But after the working of such a tax had been experienced, I
am of opinion it would become popular. I am also of opinion if the
Crown should determine an uniform price for the remaining public lands,
it would be expedient, in the event of the non-payment of the tax within
some fixed period, say by the end of the second year, that the Crown
should resume the land, paying to the grantee half the uniform price then
established for Crown lands.

Do you also suppose that the proceeds of the tax should be employed in
adding to the value of land, either by promoting emigration or by im-
proving the country ? — Yes, if we do not get settlers the large proprietors
would complain, saying that it was out of their power to settle their lands.
And I may add that, as some might prefer paying the tax to settling the
land, I would compel all proprietors of wild land to sell to actual settlers
at the then price of Crown lands. Such a plan would, however, require
very considerable care in its details.

What do you think of the plan adopted in Upper Canada of selling the
wild land in order to recover the amount of the unpaid tax upon it V — I
think the practice a most unjust one to individuals, and injurious to the
public. I have known land almost given away under that system. Two
years ago I employed a person to attend a sale of land brought to market,
in Upper Canada, for non-payment of the wild land tax, at which 1 pur-
chased nearly 2000 acres at the rate of eight pence an acre. Much collu-
sion, I have been told, and believe, takes place at these sales between the
buyers, who conspire to prevent biddings. The sale in short, is forced,
whether there be competition or not, and the land, as I said before is
commonly almost given away. Besides the hardship .upon the owner in
having so much more land than is necessary, sold to cover the tax ; this
system interferes with the general sale of Crown property, by bringing
land into the market at a lower price than that required by the Crown.

Have you had an opportunity of acquiring information as to the dispo-
sal of timber in this Province by the Crown ? — I have.

Does the system appear to you to be a good one ? — It does not. It

Jiirrcd in whicli a
ty, and having ex-
}g part of it and
in and sell it tor
{pendod upon it. I
in (his way for the
cres in the lown-
Rivcrs, with rather
and out-honse><
give very many
sed myselfor have

le evil of wild land
Jvocate for taxinir
e imposed the set-

V to the abatement
r.

)ng the holders ot
3t universally so,
} that would result
en experienced, I
of opinion if the
inin^ public lands,
of the tax within
, that the Crown
iniform price then

Id be employed in
jration or by im-
; large proprietors

settle their lands,
ax to settling the

to actual settlers
however, require

ida of selling the
tax upon it ? — I
d injurious to the
at system. Two
ought to market,
at which I pur-
re. Muchcollu-
sales between the
short, is forced,
I said before is
ion the owner in
er the tax ; this
ty, by bringing

til 'J Crown,
as to the dispo-

tt does not. It

3')

does not yield that revenue to theCrown which it ought, in fairness, to do.
and which I believe might without injury to the dealer in timber, be easily
derived from it. The practice within these three years has been for the
Crown to dispose of licences to cut timber at public sale, by tender and
overbid. The upset prices upon timber are determined by the Governor,
upon the recommendation of the Commissioner of Crown Lands, and
were, until last year, as follows : —

White pine square timber ^d per foot.
Red do. do. Id

White pine logs of "l^deach

twelve feet for deals. J
Spruce do. do. 2d "

Ued pine logs 7i "

At the sales in the last year the price of white pine logs was increased
to five pence, and spruc3 to two pence half penny. This price even now
is much less than the Government might fairly ask, not only in proportion
to the selling price oC that timber in England, but also to its value in the
northern continent of America. At a very early period it is certain that
there must be a great demand in the United States for Canadian pine and
spruce timber.

But the prices you have named are only the upset prices for the tender .'
I know of uo case wliere an overbid was made upon the tender, except
in one instance, and that was by mistake.

Then in point of fact there is no competition at the sale ? None ; there
is a perfect understanding among the buyers that none of them shall bid
more than the upset price.

So that in reality the prices called upset, are fixed prices ? They are.
And are in your opinion too low, having reference to the value of
timber in the markets of Canada, Britain and the United States ?
Decidedly so.

You believe that there will soon occur in the United States a great
demand for Canada timber; upon what grounds do you form that opinon ?
I visited the United States in the beginning of 1S36, for the express
purpose of ascertaining at the ports of New York and Boston what
encouragement there might be for importation of manufactured Canada
tlsnber, and also with a view to ascertain what supply of pinef^nd spruce
timber might yet remain in the United States, — with the exception of the
State of Maine to the North, on our own border, and of Georgia to the
south at a great distance from us, which latter produces an article of
very inferior quality, I became satisfied, from very careful inquiry,
that very little timber of that sort remains in the States generally, and that
even with the two exceptions that I have named, the supply will be
exhausted in a few years, provided the demand continue to increase as it
has done for many years past, along with the progressive prosperity of
the Americans.

Is the quantity of the best kinds of pine, spruce and oak timber the
property of the Crown in this province very considerable ? I believe it
to be so, particularly in the country bordering on the Ottawa, the northern
shore of the St. Lawrence, a great distance on the shores of the River
Saguenay and its tributaries, on the north shore below Quebec, and in the
district of Gaspe ; sufl5cient in fact to supply the demand of the United
States for many years to come, and if not sold under prices such as might
be easily obtained if better communication was opened with the United
State!?, as to produce a very large revenue.

•a

Even at the present low rate of timber licences, is it not often nio:
advantageous to purchase the land upon which the timber is gro'Air
than to purchase a license to cut timber upon it ? It is so decided
upon all well timbered tracts ; I have been employed myself to purcha
land with this view. It may be conceived that this is the case, when :
the districts where tracts of land are purchased for this object, the price
a license would amount on an average to about 63. 8d. per acre, ai
the average price of land is only about 3s. 2d. per acre. You therefo
get your timber at less than half price, and have the land remaining wli:
the timber is cut. For example, last year a saw mill proprietor had c
timber upon a two hundred acre lot in which I was interested in one
the townships, south of the St. Lawrence, I seized the timber which he h;
cut, and entered into an agreement with him by which I received fully
the rate of lOs. an acre for the traspass on the timber, allowing him to ta
all he had actually felled.

What is the upset price of Crown Lands in that Township ? — Fo
shillings. I bought for myself and others all the Clergy Reserves tli
open for sale in that Township in 1836, amounting to about 1800 aerf
at the upset price of 43. per acre.

If such be the case, however, any such rise as you appear to conter
plate in the price of timber licences ought to be accompanied by a cc
responding rise in ♦!;£ price of ths ;v;!d land cf the Crown "? — Undoubte,
ly so.

Have you any further remarks to make as to the present system of ti
ber licences ? — I wish to state that I think it unfair that the Crown shon,
when they have so few remaining lots in the Townships bordering on t:
Nicolet, Becancour, and Gentilly, persist in selling licences to cut timl:
on their property in that direction. The survey posts are obliterate
and the lumbermen cut away without the least regard to private proper;
There is a suit now pending in the district of Three Rivers, for dama;
Eustained in this way. The Government too is entirely dependant on t
honesty of the purchasers of the timber licences, in all the country beic
the Ottawa, for a fair return of the quantity they may cut under them,!
Crown not having any supervisor to count the logs or pieces where t
parties cut, and I believe that in many instances they cut much lar.
quantities than they are allowed to do under the licences.

Can you give any information as to the class of persons who hold,
private property, the large tracts of Waste Land ? — I have prepared n:
self to answer that question, and I now hand in a list which embraces t
greater part of the large proprietors in free and common soccage in Loi^
Canada. This list is not given as being correct in every particular, [
from the knowledge I have of the acquisitions of the principal landlio
ers, I believe it to be nearly so.
List of large Proprietors of Township land in Lower Canada ; —

Dunn estate, supposed about
Frobisher estate.
Heirs of the late J. Wurtele,
Colonel Plenderleath,
McGill estate,

Richardson's estate, represented)
by enterprising Americans. $
Honble. M.Bell,
Philomon Wright,

52,000

57,000

49,000 purchase.

42,000

38,000

31,000 purchase.

30,000 purchase.
35,000

II -

, is it not often mi):
he timber is growir
? It is so decided
ed myself to purcha
lis is the case, when:
iiis object, the price
63. 8d. per acre, a;
acre. You therefo
! land remaining wli:
aill proprietor had c
as interested in one
le timber which he 1;:
lich 1 received fully
r, allowing him to ta:

lat Township ? — Fo

Clergy Reserves tli

5 to about 1800 acn

ou appear to conter
ccompanied by a cc
JtQVfn ?— Undoubt^

present system ofti
lat the Crown shoo;
ships bordering on t.
licences to cut timl
posts are obliterate
rd to private proper!
i Rivers, for dama;
rely dependant on t
all the country bek
y cut under them, t:
s or pieces where t
hey cut much lai:
nces.

persons who hold,
-I have prepared n;
it which embraces 1
T»on soccage in Low
every particular, [
e principal landho

^er Canada .• —

)0 purchase.

)0 purchase.
)0

Estate of Judge Ogden,

30,000

Sir John Caldwell,

35,000

Charles Ogden, Esquire,

25,000 purchase.

Louis Massue, Esqr., representee
by enterprising Americana,

' }■ 40,000 purchase.

Hart families, different branches,

40,000 purchase.

Messrs, Forsyth and Halt,

40,000 purchase.

Wm. Vondenvelden,

25,000 purchase.

Estate of G. Glenny,

10,000

Webb and others,

28,000

F. and M. Defoy

14,000

Estate of Wm. Holmes,

14,000 purchase.

Baby family,

10,000

Lindsay family.

10,000

Colone Heriot,

12.000

D. R. Steuart.Esqr.,

14,000 purchase.

R. Taylor, Esqr.,

17,000 purchase.

Clarke estate.

12,000

Scott family,

11,000

P. Patterson, Esqr.,

22,000 purchase.

J. H. Kerr, Esqr.,

21,000 purchase.

T. A. Stayner, Esqr.,

24,000 purchase.

Blanchet estate,

15,000 purchase.

J. B. Forsyth, Esqr.,

10,000 purchase.

D. Burnet, Esqr.,

10,000 purchase.

Taylor estate,

21,000 purchase.

Felton family,

12,000

W. Gregory, Esqr.,

11,000

Montizambert fAmily,

10,000

Wilson estate,

13,000

Judge Gale, supposed,

10,000

Judge Bowen,

10,000 part purchase.

William Henderson,

22,000 purchase.

Commissary General,

10,000

Gray Estate,

8,000 purchase.

Stewart family,

6,000

Chief Justice Sewell aboat

G,500 purchase.

Allsopp family.

16,000

Cuyler estate,

6.000

William Somerville, Esq.

3,500 purchase.

James Stuart, Esq.

8,000 purchase.

Lester and Morrogh estate,

4,500

Quebec Bank,

14,900 purchase.

Wm. Phillips, Esq.

50,000 purchase.

Mountain family,

3,000

Estate of General Maclean,

6,000

Col. Robertson Estate,

1,200

Mr. St. Ours,

3,000

Dan ford Estate,

6,200

Blackwood Estate,

4,000 purshase.

Wm. Hall.

14,000

Sutherland Estate

12,000

h '< J

iip.

I p

L. Knowlton and others,

Stanley Bagg,

Benjamin Tremain,

Honorable J. Stewart,

Walker family,

Mrs. Tach^.

Green family,

Stanton family,

Pozer family,

Robinson estate,

N. Coffin,

Bigelow,

Henry Hoyle,

Gilpin Gorst,

Cull Estate,

Longmore family,

Rt. Hon. E. Ellice, supposed

White family,

Revd. Mr. Sewell,

Fraser Estate,

JNlrs. Scott,

Holland Estate,

Miss Fiiilay,

Mrs. Eliot,

Estate of James Caldwell,

J. McLeod,

H. Cowan,

Dr. Skey,

6. Bowman,

Wm. Torrance,

Horatio Palton,

William Palton,

Wm. Price,

Henry Le Mcsurier,

Jacques Voycr,

J. McLean,

George Hamilton,

Pastorius family,

Malhiot Estate,

Judge Pyke and Desbarats,

Chinic family,

Armstrong family,

Trueman Kimpton,

J, W. Wainwriglit,
What proportion of these 1,400,000 acres uo you suiipose to be iii a
perfectly wild state ? Certainly a million of acres.

Oomanyofllic proprietors reside upon the land? Six out, of tliu
whole number reside upon the land.

Are many of the proprietors absentees from the country ? There are
1 believe thirteen, holding land as follows :

-12,000
35.000 "
10,000
28,000

20,000 purchase.

4,000 purcliase.

8,000 purchase.

2,000

2.000

7,200 purchase.

6,000

3.200
20.000 purchase.

4,000 purchase.

2.000
10,000

4,000 purchase.

5,000 purchase.

3,000
11,000
30,000

6.000 purchase.

3,000 purchase.

6,000

2,400

4,000

5,000

3,000 part purchase.

2,000

2,000 purchase.

5,000 purchase.

2,500 purchase.

4,000 purchase.

6,000 purchase.

2,000 purchase.

3.000 purchase.

4,500
10,000 purchase.

12,000 purchase.

3,000

3,500 purchase.

3,000

3.000
21,000

2,000

3,000

16,000 purchase.

3,600 purchase,
acres do you suppose to be

chaae.
chase,
chase.

chase.

:hase.
chase.

chase,
shase.

:hase.
;hase.

t purchase.

hasc.
hase.
hasu.
hase.
Imsc.
Iiuse.
Iiase.

Iiase.
liase.

lase.

hase.

use.

se to be

ill a

X out of

the

? There are

17,000
21,000
11,000

6,000

3,000

6.000

5,200

5,000
30,000

219,700

Where do the other proprietors generally reside ? Generally in the
cities of Montreal and Quebec, and the town of Three Rivers.

Of vvhat class do they generally consist? Generally of persons in
affluent circumstances consip'.ingof the most influential class. I could have
added very much to the list by taking in persons of a similar class who
hold from two to eight hundred acres.

This is the class of persons upon whom a wild land tax would chiefly
fall ? It is ; the poor proprietors are generally settled upon and have
cultivated lands.

Of what class arc the holders of wild land upon the original tenures
whether of French or English origin ? Of late years many men of British
origin have bought out the French seigniors and I should suppose that at
this moment more than two thirds of the large seigniories are held by
persons of British origin.

But of what origin, and of what class in society are the holders of these
large tracts of wild seigniorial land ? In affluent or easy circumstances
like the proprietors of wild lands in free and common soccage ; I should
have mentioned that within the last six years many seigniors, under the
provisions of the imperial statute, have changed the tenure of their pro-
perties to that of free and common soccage, but these holders of large
tracts of wild lands are not included in the list which 1 have given in.

From your long and intimate acquaintance with the different systems
or practices that have been pursued in this Colony with respect to the
disposal of Crown Lands and with that which is now in force, do you
believe that the settlement and improvement of the country can be effec-
tually promoted without some important change ? I do not think it
possible that under the systems or practices which have prevailed, or
which now prevail, that any effectual settlement of the country could
be made ; but supposing a judicious system adopted, and established by
law, so as to be free from uncertainty and with good provisions for the
due administration of the law, then I believe that this country would
present as fair a field for settlement as any in the world.

-<t1

«:

John Dauidaont Esquire, Commissioner of Crown Lands.

Can you furnish a statement of the grounds upon which all free grants
of land have been made since the receipt of the Treasury instructions of
November, 1826 ? No, I cannot.

Is there any such account in your office ? Not in our office.

As all such free grants vrere made upon (he recommendation of the
Executive Council, is it probable that some record of that sort may be
obtained from the books of the Council ? I do not kno>^ enough of the
proceedingsof the Executive Council to state if such is the case, but I
should presume that the petition upon which the grants are founded
must be of record either there or with the Provincial Secretary.

At all events your office supplies no means of obtaining the desired in.
formation? Nofurtber than when the docket of the entry of the patent
states the quality of the party, but this is by no means a general thing,
and even then it does not state that it is in respect of the qualiflcation^
as for instance in respect of officers in the army.

instructions of

George Herman Ryland, Esquire, Assiatant Clerk of Executive Council.

Are applications for free granti of land determined by the Executive
Council ? They have been hitherto when referred by the Governor to
the Board.

Is that course general ? Yes ; the Governor by his instructions has
been obliged to refer such applications to the Executive Council for
their opinion. I believe those instructions go so far as to say that no
grantsshall be made unless by the consent and advice of the Council.

I conclude that a record is kept of the opinion of ihe Council upon
every such application ? Yes, upon all those referred to them.

But I understand yoo to say that all such applications were of necessity
referred to the Council ? Yes, where tlie Governor thought the party
deserving of the bounty of Government, or that his claim wea well
founded.

Does the record of the opinion of the Council upon every application
contain any statement of the grounds upon which the opinion of the
Council was formed ? Not in every instance, but as the quantum to be
granted was determined by instructions from home, with respect to
officers and men of the army, navy, and militia, and as half a lot was
usually granted to an ordinary settler, the rank or class of the applicanti
(which was generally mentioned in the heading of the report of Council,)
may de considered as the grounds on which the grant was recommended.
In cases where the claims of the party admitted of a doubt, the commit-
tee of Council stated their reasons for granting or rejecting the applica-
tion.

Will the reasons there be found in all cases except as to officers ? In
many instances, I think. The letter of reference accompanying memo-
rials where the case of the applicant was not clearly made out, some-
times stated the opinion of the Governor as to the right of the party
claiming for a grant of land.

But that is not the point. What I wish to ascertain was whether, ex-
cepting in the cases of officers, the records of the Council contain a state-
ment of the grounds upon which the petition was acceded to? Not
necessarily in all.

fn what proportion do you imagine ? That I really cannot say.

Do you believe the record exists as to half the cases ? No ; certainly
not.

Or a quarter ? No ; I should think not. The memorial would con.
tain the reasons why the grant was asked, and if the Council were satis-
fied that they were just, a recommendation that the prayer of the petition
should be granted, was considered sufficient without recording the con-
tents of the memorial.

What became of the memorials i In most cases where the applications
were granted they remained in our office, unless the application was
for a patent upon a prior recommendation of Hie Council, tlic conditions
of which liad been complied with. In those cases the incniorial was
returned to the a|)plicanlj when the parly proceedod to sue out the patent.

So that in all cases where the land was actually gruiitoil, liic n oinorial
containing the grants of the applicant's claim was reLunud io him, no
copy being kept in your office,
rials.

Yes, we keep no cejiv of tiie memo-

And except from the memorial you are not aware how it would be
poBsible to learn the grounds upon \\'hich the grant was made ? Tfio,
except from the mention of the rank of the applicant, or from the order of
reference which, in any particular case, would contain the grounds upon
which the application was made; for instance, if the council had refused
the prayer of an application, and the parlies praying for a grant had
made it appear to the Governor that the Council had come to a hasty
conclusion, the reference would probably contain his reasons for submit-
ting it to the reconsideration of the committee.

This last statement however applies to but a very small number oi
cases ? To a very few indeed, the reference is generally placed upon the
back of the petition in the following words, "Referred to a Committee of
the whole Council, by order of His Excellency the Governor in Chief,"
signed by the Secretary for the time being.

The present enquiry only relates to cases of actual grants (excluding all
cases of refusal) exceeding 2,000 in number, comprising nearly 3,000,000
of acres, of which free grants, a considerable number have been made
since a General Order of the Government to dispose of all Crown Lands
by sale only. What the Commissioners desire to obtain from you is, the
means by which they can have the grounds upon which such grants have
been made? By reference to the applications themselves, some of which
are lodged in my Office, and I should presume the others are with the
Provincial Secretary.

What proportion of them do you suppose are in your ofBce ? Very few
indeed, since the year 1 827.

And as to the others you would refer the Commissioners to the Provin-
cial Secretary 1 Yes, such applications as are in my Office, I shall be
happy to furnish the Commissioners with.

Perhaps you would be so good as to make out a statement of the
grounds upon which the applications were granted in all such cases as
have been recorded in your Office, either by remarks or by having
preserved the orignal memorial ? I should be happy to give the original
memorials to the Commissioners, but as to making out the statement
they require, I fear that with the limited assistance I have in my Office,
it would be impracticable. It would take a great length of time as I
must go into every individual case, and compare the reports of Council
with the application, besides which my Office furnishes me with very
imperfect information.

Do you imagine that the patent office contains any report of the grounds
upon whi jh these free grants have been made ? I should think it does.

That is the Office of the Provincial Secretary ? Yes.

ft >

ow it would be
was made ? ]^o,

from the order of
he grounds upon
uncil had refused
for a grant had

come to a hastj
sons for submit-

small number of

placed upon the

a Committee of

'ernor in Chief,"

nts (excluding all
nearly 3,000,000
have been made
ail Crown Lands
from you is, the
!uch grants have
s, some of which
hers are with the

(Bee ? Very few

rs to the Provin-
Office. I shall be

tatenient of the
all such cases as
vs or by having
give the original
It the statement
I'e in my Office,
>gth of time as I
ports of Council
!9 me with very

rt of the grounds
think it does.

Thomas Allen Stayner, Esquire, Deputy Post Master General of
tish North America.

Bri-

■f

How long have you resided in this Province ? — Upvvards of 25 years.

We understand that you are a considerable proprietor of lands in this
Province ? — Yes, I anr. a large proprietor both in this Province and in
Upper Canada.

You have also visited New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Kd-
ward Island ? — Yes, I am personally acquainted with all the Provinces.

Has your attention been directed to the slate of landed properly in this
Province, occasioned by the manner in which lands, the property ot the
Crown, have been disposed of to individuals ? — From having n large
stake in the country, my attention has naturally been directed to a sub-
ject of such great importance to my own interests a.id that of the public in
this Colony.

The particular circumstance to which the Committee is desirojs of
drawing your attention, is the large proportion of land which has become
private property, so as to be out of the control of the Government, and yet
remains in a wilderness state, operating as an impediment to the commu-
nications and to the settlement and improvement of the Province ? — Thiis
is no doubt a very serious evil, and it is one amongst others of the ijreat
causes which have kept this Province in the back ground, and prevented
the developement of its resources, and I conceive that the primary step in
the formation of a general scheme for the actual settlement of the waste
lands of the country, should be to remove, or at all events essentially to
diminish, the impediments which it presents to any thing in the shape of
improvement.

In expressing an opinion of this nature,! am, perhaps, advocating a view
of the question which may expose me to the risk of suffering materially in
my immediate interests through the application of the remedy which it is
probable v/ill be tried by the Government, with the design of abating the
mischiefs arising out of the monopoly of large tracts of wild land by indivi-
duals, in as much as I am the proprietor of about 50,000 acres of that
description of land in this Province ; but the conviction has long been
pressing on my mind, that I and other large holders, were unwittingly illus-
trating the fable of the dog and the manger, — and this not only in a direct
sense.as regards the immediate profit or loss from the lands, but indirect-
ly also, as the general interests of the Province must suffer through a
mistaken or vicious system of managing the wilderness lands, which ought
to be looked upon at present as the chief staple of the country.

A circumstance Hke the following will show how necessarily I have been
led to that view of the subject which I am now taking.

Twenty years ago or thereabout, I purchased wild land at what was then
considered a low price, in the natural hope that it would be gradually in-
creasing in value, and that whenever I might choose to sell, it would be at
such a profit as would afford me a fair return for the use of the money em-
ployed : so far, however, from realizing this expectation, I now find after
the lapse of so many years, (when the accumulated interest upon the mo-
ney invested has increased the cost of the land 150 per cent,) I say, I find
that I could not, if compelled to sell this land, obtain more for it than it
originally cost me.

I do not deny but that wild lands in some parts of the Province, have
been sold at a profit within the period cited by me, but generally speaking

■m

'^,1*

there has been no improTemcnt, deserving, of the name, in the price of
wild lands as a marketable article for a number of years, nor can any
price be quoted now as the actual value of such property.

With facts like the above before me (and they must be familiar to every
man in the country, who has been thrown in the way of studying the
subject) I say, that I have been convinced we were laboring under a
delusion, in fancying that it was a desirable tiling to acquire large tracts
of wild land, in a province circumstanced as this has been; and con-
sequent upon that conviction I am willing to give my support to any
well considered measure, having for its object the forcing of those and
other wild lands into actual occupation, and settlement — even with the
risk attached to it, that as the holder of a considerable number of acres,
which for many years may not be available in the market, I shall be
subjected to a large outlay in the shape of fine or tax, which, should the
scheme prove a failure, I may never get back. In other words I consider
that nothing can be worse than the present state of things (whether with
reference to the interests of individuals or the prosperity of the Colony)
and that the sooner a reform is taken in hand by the Government, the
better for all parties ; but though I speak thus decidedly of the necessity
of introducing some system which shall tend to the settlement of the wild
lands, now in private hands, I mean as decidedly to say that I would not
recommend any coercive or penal measure against proprietors, except
I were assured that pari passu with the progress of such measure, a plan
of emigration on an extended, liberal, and permanent looting should be
put into action, and that the funds which I contemplate as accruing from
the fines upon wild lands, should be expended in bnnging out emigrants,
and in making practicable and durable roads through those parts of the
province (so far as can be done) whence the revenue is derived.

I (vould bargain for a full and continuous stream of emigration to the
prov'nce, and for the actual settlement of the emigrants thereon, as well
as for the opening of good roads — otherwise the tax upon wild lands
wou'd be felt as nothing better than a robbery, the ultimate effect of
whicli would be what is now witnessed in Upper Cannda through the opera-
tion of the wild land tax there, namely the wresting of the land from
the original owners, and suffering it to fall (in larger masses) into the hands
of speculators, who, purchasing it for a mere triffe, can afford to keep it
for many years in an unimproved state, and until it suits their
convenience to sell it ; thus defeating the main object of the Govern-
ment in imposing the tax.

In employing the land tax revenue for the objects to which I have
adverted, I beg to say that instead of waiting for the gradual accumulation
of a fund from the actual receipts of the assessment (a tedious and
objectionable process in the circumstances of the country) I would
recommend the securing of such a sum of money in loan, upon mortgage
on the taxes as would enable the Government to go forward with its
plans promptly and vigorously ; and I would further recommend that the
funds derived from the sale of the Government lands and timber should
all be directed to this same great object, as one upon which the ultimate
prosperity of the country, as a dependency of the British Crown, mainly
depends.

What scheme of taxation would you suggest as best suited, in your
opinion, to work out the improvements which you adn it to be so much
required ? It is a very difficult task for me to give such an opinion on

'
'

in the price of
I, nor can any

amiliar to every
)f studying the
boring under n
jire large tracts
een ; and con-
support to any
; of those and
even with the
umber of acres,
ket, I shall be
lich, should the
'ords I consider
(whether with
of the Colony)
overnment, the
)f the necessity
ent of the wild
lat I would not
•ietors, except
neasure, a plan
)titig should be
1 accruing from
out emigrants,
)se parts of the
ived.

igration to the
lereon, as well
on wild lands
timate effect of
3ugh the opera-
the land from
into the hands
brd to keep it
it suits their
f the Govern-

which I have
1 accumulation
i tedious and
ntry) I would
jpon mortgage
ward with ils
imeiid that the
timber should
h the ultimate
>own, mainly

suited, in your
o be so much
an opinion on

thii question as would be satisfactory to myself ; there are many con.
flicting circumstances to be weighed and decided upon, and after all, any
plan that can be tried, will be but an experiment, the working of which
may be materially influenced by causes which have not yet been contem-
plated.

It appears to me, however, that a moin point to keep in view in legislat-
ing upon the question, is the cost of wild land in the United Slates ; we
should endeavor to make the settlement of wild land in thiH and the other
provinces fully as advantageous to the settler, as it is in those states,
otherwise we shall assuredly lose the greater number and the best descrip-
tion of our settlers after being at the expense of bringing them out. The
measure of the tax upon unimproved land therefore ouglit to be in exact

Eroportion to the value of the land itself, and the value of the land should
e in a great degree estimated with reference to the price at which wild
land can be purchased in the United States tor ready money.

My idea is, that a tax of a half penny currency an acre, would be a
proper sum for the first two years If not then paid 1 would double the
rate, making it a penny an acre fur the whole of the unpaid time and for
non-payment at the end of these two years, I would again double the
rate, making it two pence an acre per annum, for six years; thus, for
six years unpaid taxes on a lot of two hundred acres, the aggregate dues
would amount to £10 and if not then paid, I would sell the land.

I have heard it said, that instead of putting the land up to public sale for
payment of the taxes as is done in Upper Canada, it would be better that
Government showM take such portion of the lot as at a prescribed value
would liquidate the claim ; this plan appears to be more indulgent to the
owner of the land, but^I do not think it would answer a good purpose, as
the effect would be to throw a great number of fragments of lots into the
hands of Government, which would be utterly unavailable. Another and
perhaps a better plan than either of these would be for the Government, at
the end of six years, to assume the whole of the lot at a reduced price, say
at one half or one third the Government, price paying the proprietor the
difference between the purchase money and the amount of the tax.

As regards emigration to these provinces, will you be so good as to
throw into a condensed shape any ideas that may have struck you as
calculated to advance the great object in view, — that of the actual occu-
pation and settlement of the land by a loyal and industrious population ?
I have long been of opinion that the great want of success which has
attended so many attempts at settlement in this and the other provinces,
is occasioned by so many poor emigrants upon their first arriving in the
country undertaking the management of wild lands and depending upon
the produce thereof as a subsistence for themselves and families ; many
of these poor people have little or no agricultural knowledge even in a
general way, and they are all ignorant of the husbandry practised in the
country, tlie consequence is, that after getting into the "bush" as it is
called, they find themselves beset by privations and difficulties which they
are not able to contend with, and giving way under the pressure, they
abandon their little improvements to seek a livelihood elsewhere. Num-
bers resort to the large towns in the provinces with their starving families,
to eke out by day labor and begging together, a wretched existence,
whilst others of them (more enterprising) are tempted by the reputed
high wages and more genial climate of the United Stales, to try their
fortunes in that country. Now and then some individual better gifted

IT '

ir^-o

and poBieiiing more energy of character than the mats of the adventurers
who arrive, will succeasfully contend with those difficulties and do well
for himself and family, but the proportion of such is small.

I look upon it that capital is quite as necessary to the successful
settlement of the farmer in this new country, as it is in England, tlio'
upon a smaller scale ; and that without a capital or an equivalent for it,
the greater proportion of adventurers will altogether fail, or succeed
in BO imperfect a degree that the result is of little benefit cither to
themselves or the country : I would therefore, if only from a feeling ol
humanity discourage the indiscriminate cession of wild lands to new
comers without capital : it is far better for themselves and the country that
they should labor as servants for a few years until they have acquired a
stock of knowledge together with money sufficient to enable tlicm to
contend against the difliculties by which the inhabitants in tlic new
settlements are sure to be assailed. Such an arrangement as would
oblige the poorer class of emigrants to labor for a few years an
servants, beiore undertaking the management of farms un their own
accounts, would operate beneficially in another respect — that is,
it would afford to those settlers who have capital to work with, the
means of procuring labor at a reasonable cost, which it is notorious
cannot now be done. In fact the extravagant wages demanded
by agricultural laborers in this province at present must cat up all the
profits of the farmer. In laying down a scheme for emigration to the
provinces on an extended scale, I should say that great etlbi ts ought to
be used to bring out a considerable projiortion of practical fanners pos-
sessing capital ; I conceive that such people might be induced to come
out in greater numbers than they have hitherto done, upon proper repre-
sentationSj and holding out to them due encouragement. The formation
of good roads throughout the tracts of country open to settlement, con-
necting the same with rail roads and with steam navi ;atioii, would
operate as a powerful argument with such people to fix their fortunes in
the country. As to the poorer classes — they should, as fa practicable,
be newly married couples, without the incumbrances of t'a old and in-
firm — the paupers and worn out pensioners which have hitherto consti-
tuted a considerable portion of the annual arrivals from the British Isles,
have operated as a heavy clog upon the prosperity of the country. I
would induce as many of those newly married couples, or young unmar-
ried people, as possible, to come out, finding them a comfortable passage
in the first place, and holding out to thcai further encourajrcnient for con-
tinuing in the province and conducting themselves well. Tliey should
come out under a bond to remain in the country for at least three years,
during which period they should be under the protection of the commis-
sion appointed for carrying out the object, (for I am pre-supposing that
such a commission will form part of the new system.) I would appren-
tice out to respectable farmers and capitalists, such of the new Comers as
were willing to enter into an engagement of that nature, giving llicm the
benefit of the wages agreed upon, and holding out the promise of a bounty

of £ to such of them as should conduct themselves creditably during

the term of apprenticeship. The opening of the roads wliicli I recom-
mend as an essential feature in the proposed system, will afford employ-
ment for great numbers of the j)oorer classes, who cannot be disposed of
as farm servants. I would arrange with them that a portion of their
wages should be retained in the hands of the commissioners for the first

he advcnturerH
es and do well

tho Bucccssful

England, tlio'

[uivalent for it,

il, or succeed

nefit either In

m n feeling ot

lands to new

10 country that

avc acquired a

[lablc them to

s ill the new

lent as would

few years as

on their own

lect — that is,

ark with, the

it is notorious

jes demanded

at up all the

nigration to the

Ibits ought to

ill fanners pos-

lucid to conie

n jiroper repre-

J'iie formation

Itlcment, con.

;; nation, would

"r fortunes in

practicable,

^Id and in-

iherto consti-

Britisb Isles,

country. I

oung unmar-

ablo passage

nient for coii-

Thoy should

tlircc years,

the t'omniis-

upposing that

ould apprcn-

ew Comers as

ving llicm the

e of a bounty

tably during

licii I rccom-

brd employ-

)c disposed of

tion of their

rs for the first

three years, upon the principle of a savings bank, allowing them five per
cent, interest therefor. I think that this would not only please th«
people and win their confidence, but be the means of providing them nt
the end of the term with a fund, from which they might pay an instal-
ment upon the purchase of 100 acres of land, and commence farming
on their own account. I would also apply this system of saving a por-
tion of their wages to those emigrants who may be apprenticed as iarm
servants. I am persuaded that this plan, (if it can be matured,) will tend
to happy results.

What country people appear to you to make the best settlers in these
provinces ? The lowland Scotch and the Irish, are in my opinion best
suited for encountering the privations and hardships to which new set-
tlers are almost invariably exposed : they are frugal in their liabitM,
hardy, and for the mont part industrious — the Irish above any people,
most readily conform to the new habits of life and of labor nliicli obtain
in the provinces, and it is found also that instead of the recklessness
which is generally considered as belonging to the Irish chara( ter in their
own country they become careful of their earnings and go on progressively
improving iheir circumstances. The English agriculturist, (if a poor
man,) is seldom so well fitted for becoming a good settler as either the
lowland Scotch or the Irish ; he can neither live so frugally, nor dues h«
bear his change of circumstances with so much cheerfulness as the others ;
this observation applies as well ) the women as to the men. The Ger-
mans and Dutch, if located in bodies, become very good settlers. In
Ujiper Canada and on a more extensive scale in the United States, tluy
have succeeded very well ; they are sober minded and plodding people,
not prone to change. — I should like to see an extensive importation of
these people, and of the Swiss also.

Having regnrd to the "ovcmmenl price of land in the United Slates,
to which you have already adverted, and to ullier circumstances which
you may consider t>s hearing;- upon the question, what value do you
think should be afhxed to the wii^te lands of the crown in the province ?
IJesidcs the price of lands in llio United Slates, I muslin answering
this (|uestion have regard to the large qaaiitilies of land in tiie provinces
held in private hands, much of which ischoico land, and in localion><
most favorable for seltleinent —there are perhaps a millioi) and u half
of acres of wild hind in the possession of individuals — many of whom
it is supposed would lie willing losell at what may be called a. low rato
for casli, say for from ^-J. to 7s. Gd. currency an acre. Whilst so niuili
land is held in ibis way, it will naturally iiitliiencc any arrangement for
the disposal of the waste lands oflhc crown. Wild lands vary in value
very materially, as will from the (piulity of the land itself, as from its
situation, but there is also anoihrr circiunstance connecled with ihc
question of fixing a value upon the waste lands of government, which it
may be well lo bear in mind — that is the Timber upon it. Until very re-
cently the limber, as an article of toniincrtc, was not taken into con-
sideration, either by government or by private individuals, but it is now
otherwise. Our American neighbours have discovered, to their astonish-
ment, that iheir own resources for pine limber are nearly exhausted,
and they are looking willi great interest to the lands in Lower Canada
and New Brnnswick, which possess that valuable article. In the year
1835, speculators from the Slates of Maine and New York came into
this jirovince, and purchased about a million of acres ofland, said lo bo

•'i

fit

vrooded with piae and spruce, and there is no doubt but that for tho
financial difficulties which befel the whole of the United States at the clone
of the year 1835, and commencement of 1836, much more extensive
acquisitions of pine and spruce lands would have been made by the
Americans — the disposition to acquire those lands is only temporarily
suspended, and it is quite probable that in four or five years more, the
passion will return as strongly as ever. Now, according to the scale by
which the Americans estimate such lands, they may be considered ai
worth from two to six dollars per acre — merely for tht Timber ! ihe (|ucstiuii
may therefore be whether this consideration is to constitute an element in
the scheme to be devised, and if so to what extent, — it should be borne
in mind also that the land most valuable for timber is seldom of great
value for agricultural purposes. Setting aside for the moment the pine
and sprucelands, I do not think that a higher rate than 7s. Od. currency
an acre can be put upon the lands of the crown.

Would you limit the quantity of land to be sold to either settlers or
speculators 1 I think it would not be possible to do this if you sell for
ready money, and any other principle of sale would in my opinion only
tend to perpetuate and increase the evils under which we are now
laboring.

Qt that for tho
:atc8at the clone
more extensive
n made by the
ily lemporarily
^ears more, the
to the scale by
e considered ai
>er ! the question
te an element in
hould be borne
eldoin of great
oment the pine
a. 6d, currency

ther settlers or
is if you sell for
Y opinion only
h we are now

Mr. Andrew Russell.

You are a land surveyor and have been regularlay employed by the
government since 1830? Yes, chiefly in the townships, in the counties
of Meganticand Sherbrooke.

With what township are you most particularly acquainted 1 With the
townships of Inverness, Ireland, Nelson, Halifax, l^ceds, and Wolfs-
town, where I have been employed for many years surveying, and in ona
of which I held a farm.

That district is -considered one of the most fertile in the province, is it
not ? It is equal to the other eastern townships, which are regarded as
the finest part of the province.

Be so good as to describe the state of that district, with respect to
the degree of settlement that has taken place there, the proportion of
land that has become private property, the land which remains the pro-
perty of the crown, and the proportions in which land, private property,
has been cultivated ? In the township of Inverness, which consists of
nearly C8,000 acres, leaving after the deduction for highways about
61,600 of grantable land, there are only 6,200 acres undisposed of, being
chiefly the remainder of the Crown and Clergy Reserves, the first grant
in this township was to Mr. McGillivray, who, I believe, was one of tbe
partners in the north west company, of a quarter of the township.exclusive
of the Crown and Clergy Reserves, comprising 1 1 ,.550 acres, Mr. McGil.
livray the same year transferred this right to Mr. Frobisher, another of
the partners who granted 200 acres of land each to two Americans, who
settled in the township in the year 1806. These Americans cleared from
GO to 70 acres each, and are at present living upon these farms. From
that time till the year 1824, nothing was done in the way of settlement
in this township, though what are termed settlement duties, i. e. the
clearing of 4 acres of land, and the erection of a log hut, were performed by
diflerent individuals upon grants which they had received from the crown.
Between 1824 and 1827, three or four individuals established themselves
upon grants from the crown, nr.d made small clearings. In 1827, my
father was appointed agent for settling the townships, and he located up-
wards of thirty families upon new grants. He was empowered to grant
100 acres of land to any British subject of good character, who actually
settled upon the land; so that in the month of July, 1829, when I be-
came agent for the commissioner of crown lands, there were forty-two
families in the whole settled in the township ; they had cleared 47^ acres,
had erected forty-one houses, fourteen barns, and eighteen stables. — Be-
tween 1829 and 1833, 1 located about 150 families, upon lOOacre lots each,
purchased on quit rent. In addition to these there were about
twenty families vho purchased from one hundred to two hundred acres
each, the purchase money to be paid by four yearly instalments. There
were also twenty families from the Island of Arran, Tenants of the Duke
of Hamilton, to wlinni a gratuitous grant of one hundred acres each
family and five hundred acres to llie lender was made. There have also
been sonic few seltletntnts ninde by the Commuted Pensioners, to whom
lO.UOO acres of land was allotted in this township but not more than
one si.\th of tlieni have settled upon their hind. Concurrently Avith these
settlements ujion crown laiul^, there were settlements going on upon the
kind which had been granted to Mr. McGillivray and others. Some of the
•eltlers havc> from time, to time sold out from their settlements, and the

ufvi

■i,

'^ ii

11^

whole number of families at the present time settled in this township is
about two hundred and twenty, making upwards of eight hundred souls.
Of the lands disposed of by the crown in this township 41,100 acres are
at present occupied by actual settlers. Out of the 55,400 acres which have
become private property, there are about 4,800 acres or about one twelfth
of the whole cleared and under cultivation, being in the proportion of
rather more than twenty-one acres each family.

What roads are there in this township, and what is their present
condition ? The Gosford road, commenced in 1830, passes through the
centre of the township, but it has never been completed, and is in a very
bad state of repairj the Craig's road passes along the south east boundary,
but it is also in a bad state of repair : there are bridle roads on the
different concession lines. During a considerable portion of the year though,
only at the distance of between forty and fifty miles from Quebec, the
settlers in this township can only reach that town on foot by a long detour
to get into the Craig's road, which, though bad, is not actually impassable,
but which makes the distance from sixty to seventy miles

Will you proceed to describe in a similar mauuer the history and
condition of the other fivetownthi|)s which you have mentioned ? In the
township oflreland, which is assumed to cantain about 64,000 acres, or
deducting the allowance for high-ways 58,000, (but the true contents of
which cannot be known until the survey has been verified,) there remain
at the disposal of the crown about 15,000 acres including the clergy
reserves. The first grant in this township was in 180:i, to the Air.
Frobisher, (to whom, as I have mentioned Mr. McGillivray transtcned his
quarter of the township of Inverness,) of a quarter of the to\viishi|) or
1 1,5.^0 acres. Settlement was commenced upon that grant as early as '.805,
Mr. Frobisher, located upon it about twelve or fourteen families, erected
a mill, and made a road from Dudswell to the settlement, a distance of
.'^0 miles ; from this time to 1820 no new settlements were foriiicd .• from
the latter year to the present time settlers have occasionally established
themselves in the township. A grant of about 4.000 acres in the whole
was made to commuted pensioners, of whom about one sixth only have
settled. Of the 43,000 acres which have been disposed of by the crown
the whole of which, except seven hundred acres sold on (juit rent and
six hundred and three on instalments, has been disposed of by free
grants, there are about 18,000 acres occupied, of which probably the half
are in the grant made to Mr. Frobisher. Thenumber of families settled is
about eighty, comprising -100 souls. The land cleared is about 3, 1 00 acres,
about one fifteenth part of the whole amount which has become private pro-
perty, and about thirty-eight acres to each family. The road to Dudswell
made by Mr. Frobisher, is at present nearly impassable, and is used only
as a cattle path. The only road from this township to Quebec, is the Craig's
road. There is a road from Iielaud ;o Shipton, which is generally very
bad and which is crossed by two considerable streams, frsjni two hundred
to three hundred feet in width, over which there are no Bridge.s. In the
township of Halifax which is assumed to contain 08, 000 acres or
01,600 deducting the allowance for highways, there reuiain at the
disposal of the crown about 12,000 acres including the Clergy reserves.
The first grant in this township was in 1802, of 1 1550 acres, or a quarter
of the township to Mr Jobert, who transferred his grant to Mr. Frobisher.
Upon this grant, only one settler was located about 1805, In 1806.
there was a grant of 11245 acres to Mr. Scott. Upon this grant some

this township is
ht hundred souls.
41,100 acres are
icres which have
ibout one twelfth
le proportion of

is their present
isses through the

and is in a very
h east boundary,
idle roads on the
the year though,
oin Quebec, the
by a long detour
-lally impassable,
s

he history and
tioned ? In the
04,000 acres, or
true contents of
J,) there remain
:ling the clergv
■10-', to the Mr.
ly transferred his
llie township or
IS early as 1805,
ainilies, erected
nt, a disUince of
I'e (brined / from
lally established
es in the whole
sixth only have
af by the crown
n quit rent and
sed of by free
robably the half
niilics settled is
3ut3, 100 acres,
ime private pro-
ad to Dudswell
md is used only
;c, is the Craig's

generally very
ni two hundred
•ridges. In the
i,000 acres or
remain at the
I'lergy reserves,
es, or a (piarter

Mr. Frobisher.
05. In 1806.
:iis grant some

squatters established themselves some time before the year 1828, and
the land which they had cleared was purchased from Mr. Scott, by some
settlers who arranged with the squatters, and established themselves upon
their improvements. In 1831, ten or twelve families settled upon the
Frobisher quarter, ^nd a few commuted pensioners : about the same pro-
portion of those to whom land had been granted, as in the other cases I
have mentioned, also settled in the townships. Within the last three years
about forty French Canadian families from the neighbouring seigniories of
St. Mary, St. Joseph and LotbiniSre, have gone in and .'iquatted, prin-
cipally on the Frobisher tract. The number of families at the present
time is between 50 and GO, consisting of about from 250 to 300 sou's.
There are about 3000 acres of land occupied, of which there may !;e
about 720 acres cleared, or a little more than the seventieth part of the
land disposed of. The only road in this township, with the exception
of six bridle roads betv\een the concessions, is the road from Ireland ti>
Shipton. I was engaged in 1833 to trace a line for a road from the set-
tlement in Inverness to Shipton, which would have passed through thr
centre of this township, but it was never made : so much of the land be-
longed to private proprietors, that the government did not think it worth
while to incur the expense, although the line of road marked out was
very favorable, and would have shortened the present distance from
Shipton to Quebec, by about ten miles In the township of Wolfstown,
consisting of about 68,000 acres, 61 ,000, after deducting the allowance
for highways, there remains at the disposal of the crown 34,300 acres,
including the clergy reserves. In 1802, the north quarter of this town_
ship was granted to Nicholas Montour : this quarter has since passed
'!irough several hands, and is now, I understand, the property of the
Q' ?bec Bank. Nothing has ever been done to settle this township, though
-c ttlement duties have been performed ; and I believe that there is

I oi, 3 person established upon it, who is a squatter. The Dudswell
i\.^^ trom Ireland to Dudswell passes through this township, but it is
impassable, except during a short period in the most favorable season of
the year. The population of the township consists of seven individuals,
constituting the fumilyof the squatter I have mentioned, and eighteen
acres have been cleared by him ; being about the 200Ulh part of the
grat.ted land. In the township of Leeds, which was supposed to con-
tain 02,000 acres, or 50,000, exclusive of the allowance for hi-jliwavs,
but the real dimensions of which, owing to ar. error in the survey,
amount only to 52,800, there retnain at t!ie disposal of the cro^-n about
3,000 acres of clergy reserves. The crown, in this township, has disposed
by grant and sale, of more land tlian it actually possessed, since proceed-
ing upon the assumption that the original survey was accurate' it has
proportioned its grants to the assumed dimensions of the township. Th'i
first grant in the township was of the south west quarter to Isaac Todd,
who transferred it immeuiately to Mr. Frobisher. In 1812, 8,002 acres
were sold to ]\Ir. Hamilton ; but a year before that, a settlement had been
made by ^Ir. Palmer, and some others upon that land, which had been
granted to them under location tickets ; from that lime to 1819, nothing'
was done in the way of settlement From 1819 to the present ti(nc^
settlers have been gradually establishing themselves in the township.
Of ;he land disposed of by the crown, 5,900 acres have been sold upon
quit rents, and 1,000 acres upon instalments 5,800 acres have been
granted to commuted pensioners, of whom about the same proportioii as

ft "■!

m •;•

in the other townships, have settled themselves. The population at the
present time consists of 120 families, making about 550 souls ; the
land occupied is about 32,900 acres, and the land cleared about 6,200
acres, rather more than one tenth of the land granted. The Craig's roarl
passing through the township is very rough and hilly, and in a bad state
of repair. There is also a road called the Broughton road, leading from
the Craig's road to the township of Broughton, which is in a very bad
state, almost impassable, and there are bridle roads upon the different
concessions. In the township of Nelson, comprising 54,600 acres, or,
deducting the allowance for highways, rather more than 50,000 acres,
there remain about 12,000 acres of crown and clergy reserves yet to b«
disposed of. The whole of this township, with the exception of the
crown and clergy reserves, was granted in 1804, to the officers and
privates of the Canadian Militia who served in the year 1775. Nothing
in the way of settlement has been done upon this grant. About 1,200
acres of crown and clergy reserves have been sold upon quit rent, and
250 upon instalments. The population consists of 12 families, or
about 50 souls ; the quantity of land occupied is 1 ,250 acres, which
have been sold ; and about 100 acres, rather less than a 400th part ol
the land granted, have been cleared and cultivated

Do you know if the whole or any part of the 38,000 acres granted in
this township to the Canadian Militia remains in the hands of the original
grantees ? I am not aware. There have been a few settlements made
upon these lands within the last two or three years by squatters, but I
am not aware of the extent of these improvements. The only road pass-
ing through this township, is the unfinished Gosford road, and there are
a few bridle paths.

Are you acquainted with the condition of the township of Somerset,
which adjoins to the township of Nelson ? It is wholly unoccupied, to
the best of my knowledge ; though there may be some squatters of whom
I have not heard.

Are you aware that in that township also nearly 39,000 acres of land,
being the whole township, with the exception of the reserves for the crown
and clergy were granted in 1804, to the officers and privates of the Cana-
dian Militia? lam.

And in both of those townships the whole of the land so granted re-
mains totally waste and unoccupied, unless perhaps bv mere squatters '
Yes. ' I ■

^iCan you mention any other instances of townships in which large grants
of land have been made by the crown at a distant period, but where
nothing has been done by the grantees to improve the land so granted ?
There are many such. In Chester a grant of 1 1 ,550 was made in 1802,
to Simon McTavish, Esq. who transferred the grant to Mr. Frobisher.
Upon this grant there is now only one clearing of about 30 acres, which
was made before the last American war, by a person of the name of
Moft'att, who has since abandoned the farm. In the same township there
was another similar grant of 11,707 acres made in 1805, upon which
there is only one resident, a squatter, of the natne of Goodhue, who has
about S5 acres cleared, and a house and barn. In the township of Ham,
too, of which a considerable portion has been granted by the crown, there
is cot a single settlement, though upon some of the grants settlement
duties have been performed. In Clifton, where upwards of 40.000 acres
were granted as early as 1 803, there are at the present lime only about

population at the

550 souls ; the

ired about 6,200

The Craig's roar!

ind in a bad state

sad, leading from

!i is in a very bad

pon the different

54,600 acres, or,

an 50,000 acres,

iserves yet to be

exception of the

the officers and

1775. Nothing

t. About I,2O0

n quit rent, and

12 families, or

250 acres, which

a 400th part ol

acres granted in
ids of the original
settlements made
squatters, but I
B only road pass-
d, and there ar«

hip of Somerset,
ly unoccupied, to
quatters of whom

•0 acres of land,
ves for the crown
ites of the Cana-

id so granted re-
mere squatters ?

fhich large grants
;riod, but where
»nd so granted ?
is made in 1802,

Mr. Frobisher.
30 acres, which

of the name of
e township there
05, upon which
)odhiie, who has
)wnsliip of Ham,
the crown, there
rants settlement
s of 40,000 acres
lime only about

twenty families located, some of whom upon land they have pur-
chased from the crown since 1827, and there may be about 500 acres
cleared. In Dorset, where 53,000 acres were granted to Mr. Black, in
1799, there is not a single settlement ; the land in this last township is
of rather infarior quality.

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1

Charles Franklin Head, Esquire, Major in the Army.

You have beeo enployed in makin<^ a military survey in this ]irovince ?
Yes, I have ; I was directed by Sir John Colborne to make a survey of
the frontier townships, opposite to the State of Vermont, which I have
done from the township of Polton to the Connecticut river, a distance of
about 50 miles.

The nature of your employment led you, I suppose, into communication
with all classes of persons in the townships? The nature of my em-
ployment led me to have a constant connection, during the time I was
employed, with all classes of persons, more particularly in the townships
of Potton, Stanstead Barnston, Barford, and Herefoidj wliich aic rive
frontier townships. My survey also extended to the to'vnships in the
rear of these.

Were you also brought into communication with the inhabitants of the
State of Vermont, bordering on the frontier ? Yes, I was ; I (rcqiiently
entered the State of Vermont, and people from that state were continually
at Stanstead plains where I was stationed.

You have also passed through the other eastern townships in your way
to and from your station ? Yes, through many of them, which in fact
have come under my investigation in connection with the duties I was
performing.

It is understood that you have acquired considerable information as to
the state of the landed property, as well that of the crown, as of indivi-
duals, in these townships, — will you be so good as to describe their con-
dition in that respect ? These townships are settled with u population
of from thirty families and upwards, to a township of a hundred square
miles. I:'ven in thoi;e that are thus settled, the inhabitants are very inse-
cure, both as to the title to their property, and in the attachment to the
country, from tht^ circumstance of their not having titles to the land they
occupy, or to the improvements which they have made upon such lands.
In the fiontitT township;}, they consist for the most part of squatters, who
have settled upon the land without any titles, and are without the means
of knowing to whom the land really belongs ; and under these circum-
stances they naturally imagine that a revolution in the government might
give them a title to the land they occupy.

How has it happened that these persons have been unable to ascertain
to whom the land belonged '.' The land, generally speaking, has been
granted in large blocks to absentees, who are either out of the country, or
at a great distance from their property, and many have never taken any
steps to preserve it, or to look after it in any way. So much so, that al-
though th? land is supposed to be granted, it is a matter of mere con-
jecture, with the actual settlers, as to who may be the legal proprietors of
the soil ; and I should also adJ, that from the imperfect slate of the sur-
veys of the country, it would be exceedingly diflicult to find out who are
the real oivncrs. I would illustrate this by stating that, in the course of
my surveys thn occupiers have become alarmed at seeing observalions
making ; and when I have mentioned to them that I wa.s not inleiRiing
with their property, they have said t'lat it was a great hardship to
them, and very disheartening, that they should be improving the properly
upon which tliey were settled, without knowing who would reap ilie
benefit.

Does this description apply to the whole of the frontier townships .' To

ift! ■

■/

fi6

the vrhole of them, with the exception of Stanstead, which has been long
settled, and is better known, and where the limits of property are better
ascertained : though, even there, to my knowledge, buits arc pending to
eject men, who, from their industry, have acquired considerab 3 pro*
perty.

Has any remedy for this suggested itself to your mind P Seeing^ the
mischievous effects of this system during the recent rebellion, when the
inhabitants of the frontier townships were very much implicated, I turned
my attention to the subject, with a view to some effecient remedy, and
upon the fullest inquiry and deliberation, it appeared to me that the only
way of quieting such mischiefs, is to pass, as in many of the United
States, what is called a selling act, by which in one way or other actual
settlers are ensured the fruits of their own industry. This, I understand,
is done in various ways in different States; in some, by allowing the
actual settlers to purchase of the legal proprietors at the price of adjoin,
ing wild lands ; in others by preventing the legal proprielor from ousting
the settler, until he has paid for his improvements at a vnluntion.

Do you consider such a settling act essential to the security and well
being of the frontier townships ? Without some such law, persons so
circumstanced, can not feel themselves to have such an interest in the
country, or in the maintenance of its government, to be considered as
safe or good subjects.

Do not these occupiers without a title consist chiefly oi Americans
however ? With few exceptions, Ihey arc persons who have come from
the United States.

Are the inhabitants of these frontier townships exposed to nny other
inconveniences which indispose them to the actual government?
Persons upon first coming into a wild country, like those whom 1 have
just mentioned, have no means of communication v/ith each other, or with
a market town, but by roads made and kept in repair by their own ex-
ertions ; they are frequently miles asunder, and are separated by wild
lands, not having acknowledged proprietors, to whom r.pplication could
be made to assist in what is absolutely necessary to advaiice the settle-
ment of a new country, such as the making of roads. They are therefore
obliged to avail themselves of any means of communication that may
exist, and people living in different parts of Canada are frequently obliged
to pass in and out of the United States to communicate with eac h other
or their county town, and even to go to church by means of American
roads.

This naturally leads to comparisons injurious to the Canadian s>ide of
the frontier ? Yes, and to discontent on the Canadian side.

What then can induce Americans to settle on the C'anadian rather than
the American side of the line ? The land is decidedly better in the town-
ships than in the IState of Vermont, and the people also would prefer the
Canadian Government, if they had the same encouragement to improve-
ments that there are in the United states, being very sensible of the
benefit of this government, from its not requiring them to pay taxes.
Many of the settlers who come in, not being able to get any title to the
land they occupy, never become a fixed population. They clear a few
acres to take the benefit of a new soil : they never fence, or take out
stumps, or manure, but change from place to place, and may be looked
upon as a kind of gipsey race, and ready to join in any mischief that
may be going on.

h has been long

)peily aic better

arc pending to

Qnsiderab 3 pro»

? Seeing the
ellion, when the
Heated, I turned
t remed)', and
ne that the only
[ly of the United
or other actual
is, I understand,
jy allowing the

price of adjoin,
or from ousting
luiition.
:«rity and well

law, persons so

interest in the
e considered as

' of Americans
have come from

1 to any other
I government i
whom I have
h oiher, or with
their own ex-
arated by wild
inlication could
i.ce the scttle-
ey are therefore
tion that may
quently obliged
ilh each other
s of American

^nadian !>ide of
e.

ian rather than
er in the town-
ould prefer the
nt to improve,
ensiblc of the
to pay taxes,
ny title to the
ey clear a few
, or take out
lay be looked
mischief that

Are you awore that immediately after the last American war, the pro-
vincial gover'" .ent was instructed to prevent as far as possible the set-
tlement of lands, and the making of roads, near to the American frontier,
under the idea that a belt of desert land i)etween this country and tho
United States, would be a means of defence and security ? I understand
that such was the opinion after the termination of the last war, but the
system has been altogether inefficient, which is cotupletely proved by the
fact that the frontier townships are ciiicfly settled by people from tho
United States, who have spread themselves into tiie stcond and third
range of townships, and would no doubt come to the St. Lawrence, if
lands were procurable on the terms on which they have occupied the fron-
tier wilderness, that is to say, without payment, and this would ot neces-
sity be the effect of a neglect to settle these lands.

Does it not occur to you, that by enabling these squatters to get secure
possession of the lands they occupy, the practice of squatting by Ameri-
can citizens might be encouraged for the future ? There are a considera-
ble number of American citizens \\ho are desirous of booming British
subjects to escape local taxation, and who would make excellent pioneers ;
these persons would buy wild lands at a fair price, and having improved
them, would dispose of them again, for what would be considered a good
price by them, but which would be easy to an English settler unaccus-
tomed to the use of the ax, and to the privations of a forest life.

Then if a good title were attainable to new lands, upon easy terms, yoti
believe that the inducement to squatting without a title would be remov-
ed ? Yes, there can be no doubt that such would be the case, these per.
Sons would then be able to bring their improvements to the open market.
They are now selling improved lands under the name of betterments for a
nominal value, on account of not being able to give a title.

What are the present obstacles to settling upon land in these townships,
by purchase whether from the crown or from individuals ? The Hrst
difficulty is in the inability to discover the owner of the property upon
which he wishes to settle, that is, whether it be the property of the crown
or individuals. There are no marks at present for lots or ranges of land,
and great expense would attend ascertaining the actual position of any
lot marked in the map. For although these lots are very nicely defined
on paper, I see no way by which a spot can be determined to be in one
lot or the other by any process available to a surveyor. This more par,
ticularly applies to the townships, of which I have been speaking, and
which have many miles without a settlement. Another obstacle is, that
from the wild state of the country at present, and the want of means to as-
certain particular lots, after all possible care has been taken to discover a
lot of ground, it will in all probability at a future day be found to be greatly
out of its supposed position. Townships have been found to want a whole
range when a more accurate survey has been made in consequence of its
becoming more valuable. Another obstacle which they have to encounter,
is the terms upon which alone they can obtain land. They might be
able to pay instalments but they have not the means of paying the money
down. The land company is an exception to this, but this Company has
but a limited range.

Do you con.sider the townships of Lower Canada as highly eligible for
settlement? They are particularly so. Men have acquired a very
handsome independance, who have started without anything but their
axes and who are now alive to tell their story. They would Ibrni a re-

markablo fliio grazing country. Thoy are intersected in every direction
by rivuletR, struunis, tind lukuH. 'V\\o fanners only want an outlet for
their produce (o extend tlin <;>;rowtl) of it, or to extend tlic heads of cattle
to any nnionnt. They feel ihc want of this oullcl, and they liitvc applied
to the House of Assembly for nn act pcrniiUinj; them to make n rail road
to tlio St. Lawrence, but the applicalioii was refused. They aro paying
five 8hiHin<^-8 per cwt. either way to the nearest market for the transport
of their produce, and tliey cannot comjielc willi tiio Americans livin<ron
Lake CImmplain, who, williout wasto of time, or any considerable ex-
pense, supply tlie market, which would naturally belong- to the eastern
townships, if their enterprise was allowed fair play. The natural
features of the country, notwithstanding thcHc circumstances are «ucli,
that the people are in indepcndant circumstances and livin<>; comibrt-
ably, but cannot extend their industry and enterprise much beyond in-
dividual wants, and therefore the townships have been prevented from
advancing as they might have done. The climate is particularly fine
and healthy, and improvements aro going on, but not in the proportion
(hey might, The townships arc naturally a splendid country, and this
is not my opinion only, but that of the oldest and most intelligent resi*
ilcnts generally, and that nothing is wanting to make a hi^h degree of

Crosperity there but a cheap and expeditious communicalicn with the mar-
ets and shipping of the St. Lawrence.
Would not such acommmiicatioii with the St. Lawrence add greutly
to the value of land generally in the townships ? It would do so of ne-
cessity, and in all probability nearly double the vuliie. (3f course the
degree of benefit would depend U|)on the vicinity of the rail road, but
other roads would iminediatrly lullow the making of a main road, and
thus dittiise the benefits over the whole country.

What is (he course of tlie railway which tliL" |)ooplc of the townships
would have made if the government had not prevented them? The
line most favourable would be from Stunstead pluins to Sherbrooko, for
wliich (he country is very suitable, a distance of forty miles. From
Sherbrooke it would follow ilio course of the river St. Francis to port St.
Francis on the St. Lawrence, wliich would be convenient to ihu markets
of Montreal and Quebec. The whole distance of the railway is llO
miles. Frcm (he best opinions 1 have been able to collect, the cost
would be about £5000 per mile, or about half a million l.n' the whole
distance. This expondiluic would in my opinion add so grcatiy to the
value of the lands tliioiigh which the line passed, that llit; proprietors
would do well to furnish, at once, at least £100,000 of the proposed out-
lay, as no more than equivalent for immediate beueiit^ that \\ould arise
to them.

every direction
an oiillet for
lieada of cattle
!y have applied
tiukc a rail ruad
icy aro paying
or llie tran'iport
lifrtiis livinjj; on
lonsiilciublo ex-
>r to (lierastcrn
'. The iiatuial
mccs uru tiiicl),
livinjj coiiil'url-
jcIj beyond in-
prcvenleil from
aiticuluily fine
I ho proportion
untry, and this
intelligent rcsi-
liijjh di'f^rce of
)n\vith the inar-

ncc add greatly

lid do so of MC-

Of course (lie

rail road, but

main road, and

the lownsliips

them ? The

icrbrooko, for

miles. From

iicis to port St,

o the inurket!^

ailway is 1 lO

oliect, the cost

liii- I lie whole

|ijrea(iy to the

Ui<; proprietors

|iroposcd out-

lui A\ould arise

Honorable Dominick Daly, Secretary and Registrar of the Province,
and Member of the Executive Council.

How long have you resided in thiti country ? Sixteen years.

You have I believe had occasion, both aa an individuul and ofticially,
to become ac(|uainted with the evils which result to individuals and the
public, from the great extent of crown land which has become private
propeity, and yet remain in a wild state / 1 have.

Be so good as to describe them ■' It has most decidedly prevented the
settlement of emigrants in many instances, it has rendered jicrs^onH already
settled, extremely discontented, from the dilliculty of obtaining the neces-
sary internal communications ; in some instances settlers of many years
standing are obliged to cross the line of the American I'ronticr, and by a
circuitous route through the State of Vermont to obtain access to other
places, within the province, which they may have occasion to visit.

They go round by the Slate of Vermont in order to make use of the
American roads ? They do, not having any of their o»vn ; the vicinity of
the forest is also very injurious to actllers, by harbouring wild buuslH,
and making it impossible for them to keep sheep in particular.

But the main objection is llie quantity of private land n maininj;' wild,
is the impediment which it places in the way of making roads great ?
Decidedly.

'J'hc quantity of land in this situation is very great ? It is very great ;
the evil is felt more or less almost throughout the province, as well in
the seigniories as in the townships, but particularly in the vicinity of
new settlements.

The seigniors hold a quantity of land which remains wild ? A very
general subject of complaint against the seigniors is the dilHculty of ob-
taining further concessions of the wild seignioriul lands upon reasonable
terms.

And some of them under the Canadian Tenures Act have commuted
their seigniorial tenure into free and common soccagc, whereby as to the
uncoucded part of their seigniories they have escaped their seigniorial obli-
gation of conceding lands upon certain known condifiony? They have

Do yon consider the adoption of some remedy for the evils in question
as essential to the settlement and improvement of the province .' I do
consider the adoption of some remedy very essential, and 1 think the
successful operation of any measure for the introduction of cniit^rants
into the province will mainly depend upon the removal of these evils.

Has any remedy suggested itcelf to your mind ? A tax u| on the v/ild
lands has occurred to me as likely to accomplish, or at least to promote
this object.

Do yon mean an acreable tax ? Yes, a tax of so much per acre.

To be levied for all land held in a wild state ? Yes except a moderate
quantity which might be appended to each farm, and might remain aa
forest for firewood and other purposes, and in cases of non-payment of
the tax. a sufficient quantity of land should be sold or resumed at a set-
tled value by the government.

Do you not imagine that such a tax would be very unpopular with the
holders of w'ld lands? I thiidv it not improbable that it would be un-
popular with muny holders of wild lands, but I think it would ultimately
be beneficial to them by increasing the value of their remaining lands,
to a nui'Ji greater extent than the v hole hhjck would ever arrive at if

);

they continued solely to depend upon the reluctant improvomont of the
poor neighbouring settlers.

Then perhaps you suppose the proceeds of the tax to be expended in
the improvement of the country 'i^ Decidedly, tliejudicious opplication uf
the funds thus raised in the opening of roads would benefit the new set.
tiements to a greater extent than any other measure that at present occurs
to me.

Would it not also be some justification of such n tax that the conditions
upon which a great part of the land now wild, had been granted, had not
been performed by (he grantees 'f Undoubtedly it would.

And that speaking in the legal sense, only the government has a right
to resume such lands ? In a legal sense I presume that the government
could resume these lands.

Would it not be necessary in order to levy such a tax, that a frcsli
survey should be made, to ascertain what is and what is not crown pro-
perty f An accurate survey of the whole of the ungrantcd lands of the
province, I believe to be extremely desirable and necessary to quiet
doubts that have arisen in the minds of many new settlers as to the cor-
ectness of their present boundaries.

iTomcnt of tlie

e expended in
i application of
It the new set.
present occurs

the condltiom
anted, had not

int has a right
lie government

c, that a fresh
not crown pro>
d lands of tiie
sary to quiet
13 to the cor<

Robert Chrstie, Esquire, of Cross Point, Uiiligouchc.

You have resided lor some time in titc district of GaBjMj? I have ro-
sided there since 18;H, inclusively, and had a previous ac(iuaiiitan(c
with the country, from having visited it on public business for several
years previously.

Are you ocijuainted with the system of granting laud by the crown
which has been pursued in that district .' I believe that no lands have as
yet been patented in that district. Many people there have, however,
obtained titles to lands therein by virtue of an Act of the provincial lo^-ia-
lature, 5}> George 3d, cop. 3.

What was the object of this Act? The object was to secure the in-
habitants of the district of Gaspd in the enjoyment of thtir lands. Under
this Act, individuals without any •itle, who had occupied and improved
lands, obtained adjudications as they were termed of their lands under
which they now have an absolute property in thera. Since thai Act some-
persons have purchased lands from the crov, n, but h ive not yc\ ••cc( n c!
any title to them, although it is now six or seven years yince t -jdc oi 'h"
purchases were made. I do not however know v htthor ihi<j har,{t:.e.i
from their not having paid the purchase money. ■,<! ironi j,n otiif i chusc.

There are not I suppose any large proprietors c' ia.u'. I'l tbv district ?
No, that is, not of more than from 1,500 to 2,500 acf^s, Diul /cry few
of those.

What proportion of the district of Gaspd is seitrn'otial I'j.h' '' .' Ldic c
a very small proportion. In that part of the cjiMury ni.)j 'vhicK I ,i ;;
acquainted, are only the seigniories of Poboii s.id Gitind lliver, each, i
believe, two leagues in front by two leagu.,',s indent!/, uwiS th.'
of the Lake Matapediac, comprehending thv; i'tkc and a lec'^.v. '
all round it ; there are also I believe some seigniories on ll <. St.
but they are mostly unsettled.

So that nearly the whole of the land in the dii-tfic: of Gajpc remains
yet to be granted by the crown ? It does, wiiK t'.ie excejuija of Ibc
front, which I believe is nearly all occupied, but by fn.r t!h; most valu Abb;
land lies, as I am credibly informed, in the rear of the occupied lots.

Has there not been a large sale of land in the distriut of Cispi-,
amounting to nearly 100,000 acres, which has t:TP.\ti;<l soitie cokrip'ainl ■.*
There was such a sale about a year and a half ago, h\r. Use proni^it
manner in which the government annulled the sale, has £,it,cu vni"crsa1
satisfaction.

Upon what ground was this sale annulled by the government \ It \va>
annulled, as I understood it, because the sale had been mr^.de by tbt
Crown Lands Agent without sufficient authority, and in contraventiou
of the Royal Instructions. The nature of the f '/.i; was not published in
the Gazette, nor any other paper ; and in in" n*-.;! p?a:e, I huve ••eason
to believe, that it was not sufficiently publisbe'l, w a* Icift fauRiciently
known (for I presume publicity of {royetsment iak& lo be the
purpose of publication) in the neighbo'.r I oou where ll>u sale took place.
A gentleman in the immediate nciphi:ourhoo'J concerned in the lumber
trade, no longer than three weeki £..^o, declared to me, that although he
was concerned in the lunbtring on those grounds, and resided within
seven or eight leariues of the tract in question, he had no knowledge of the
sale whatever, unld the sale was over, when, for the first time, he learnt it,
tohi? great surprise and annoyance, from one of the purchasers.

m dt'ptti
•iiwre'ict ,

Ill

W 'i.

Had it been the practice previously to advertise the sale of crown laudsi
in the district of Gasp6 in the public Gazette ? No, it had not been tin
practice ; but none, however, but small detached lots to accommodate
actual occupants had, I believe, been previously disposed of by sale in
that district, and but very few of these. But this, however, I humbly
conceive, would not justify the putting up in the same manner so large u
tract as 90,000 acres. I might mention that a large tract, I believe,
60,000 acres or thereabout of the land in question, was very shortly after
the purchase from the agent published for sale in New York, by publica.
tion in a pamphlet shape extolling those lands, tend with reason, as of ;i
superior description, the whole accompanied, as I have been reputably
informed by a lithographic diagram, before iiny thing of the kind coulll
be had in the proper offices at Quebec. This latter part of my statement
I can vouch for, having myself called at those offices and requested a
sight of the original diagram, from which the lithographic was taken,
when, to my astonishment, I learnt that nothing of the kind was to be
seen or found in the offices — I allude to the Surveyor General's and
Crown Land Ollkes.

Were the purchasers residents in the district or strangers ? They
were not resident in the district but strangers to it ; and I believe the
whole tract, or nearly so, fell into two hands, although a few other names
may possibly appear on the returns.

Were the purchasers, from their character and occupation, persons who
might be expected to know the nature of the regulations for disposing ot
Crown Lands, and whether those regulations had been violated in this
particular instance ? I think they could rtot but have known those re-
gulations from the circumstance that Ctown Lands in this and the adja-
cent Provinces were (unless in the instances I have mentioned of their
being sold to accommodate actual occupants in small quantities and by
lots,) invariably published in the offidal and sometimes other papers
before sale.

You have stated that the resolution of government to annul the sale
produced universal satisfhction ; would Ihe confirmation of that sale Jlicn
have produced any inconvenience (o the ihhabitanis of the district '
Decidedly. It would have thrown a large tract of country highly sus-
ceptible of agriculture, and capable of receiving 900 poor families into
two hands, and I think that this tract comprehends one of the finest
portions of land in the whole district of Gasp6, possibly in Lower Ca-
nada. It is well watered and every way adopted lo immediate settle-
ment, particularly by the poorer class of settlers, who, if located there,
would find themselves in the immediate vicinity of the fisheries, wliicii
would at once afford them immediate resources ftir subsistence, and
furnish them with n permanent and profitable market for their produce
hereafter. With reference to this tract of 90,000 acres, I have heard
it asserted upon what I should deem good authority, that if the lumber-
ing business, that is to say, the cutting and felling of pine and hard
wood for exportation, were carried on opOn it, to any considerable ex-
tent, for three or four years, the purchasers would, in ticid)er duties alone,
save more than the pnrchawe tntiney they were to pay upon it. In other
words, that the govOTfhent independently of the monopoly of those
lands and the timber on them by two or three individuals or concerns,
and the mischief thence B.ising fo the public, was giving them wholly
away for a sum les« than the timber duties would amount to in four

'(■i

! of crown laud^
id not been tht
3 accommodatt
ed of by sale in
3ver, I humbly
nner so large a
tract, I believe,
;ry shortly after
rk, by publica.
reason, as of a
! been reputably
the kiuii could
f my statement
and requested a
bic was taken,
kind was to be
General's and

angers ? They
id I believe the
ew other names

on, persons who
for disposing of
violated in this
known those re-
and the adja-
nitioned of their
nitities and by
es other papers

annul the sale

)f(hat sale llien

»f the district ;•

try highly sus-

Ir families into

of the finest

in Lower Ca-

jncdiatc settlc-

ocatcd there,

[ishcries, wliicii

bsistence, and

their produce

I have heard

if the luinber-

inc and iiurd

nsiderabic ex-

r duties alone,

it. In other

•oly of those

or concerns,

tliem wholly

Int to in four

years, and that in all probability the latter would sooner find their way
into ihe public chest than Ihe last instalments of some of the purchasers,
though I pretend not to say how true this may be, — but I believe the sale
of those lands has shaken the confidence of some of those who were cut-
ling under crown licenses, and that people arc still apprehensive that
these lands by acme means or other will surreptitiously become private
property.

What are the general capabilities of the district of Gasp6 for support-
ing an agricultural population ? As great as pny part of the district of
Quebec. Its climate is nearly the same, but its soil is generally superior.
At the present time however, its capabilities have not a fair chance of
development for want of roads. If the Kempt road from Metis to the
Ristigouche, and from ihence to Carleton were completely open and
made practicable for carriages, 1 have no doubt that the whole line
would be sellled in less than three years. Another great obstacle iii the
way of the progress of this country, is the difficulty of obtaining titles,
or any satisfactory pledge that Ihe persons who improve lots will be
secure in their improvements. 1 know at this present time many indi-
viduals living in my own immediate neighbourhood, who would be glad
to purchase crown lands for immediate settlenicnt, if they could nt once
procure a title, or satisfactory pledge to the land they might select. In
some cases, owing to the difficulty which is now experienced as just
mentioned, individuals are, at their own risk, improving lands, in the ex-
pectation of getting a title on paying for them, though they are anxious
lest they should be compelled to pay for their own improvements. This
state of things produces a degree of uneasiness which it is very desirable
should be prevented. It is perhaps difficult for one individual thus
circumstanced, not to feci much concern as to his future situation.
Nothing I conceive tends more to conlirm a people in their loyalty, if
I may touch upon this chapter, than a security in their title to the land
they occupy and have improved. The easy acquisition of a title too,
would be no small inducement to emigration.
Suppose an emigrant from England should arrive in the district of Gaspd,
with u capital of £1,000, desirous of investing a portion of it in the pur-
chase of land from the Crown, and the remainder of it in improving the
land, what course would be pursued in order to obtain a grant ? He
would be exceedingly embarrassed how to proceed to obtain an imme.
diate title ; I do not know how he ought to go to work to obtain it, nor
is there in my belief a single individual in the district of Gaspe who could
give him the requisite information, nor am I aware that under the exist-
ing system it is practicable.

Is there any Crown Land Office in the district of Gaspd ? There is a
Crown Land Agent.

Are there any annual sales ? Not that I am aware of.

Are there any means of obtaining a legal grant in the district ? Not
that I am aware of.

What are the duties performed by the Crown Land's Officer in the dis-
trict ? His duty is as I understand it, to dispose of the Crown Lands
when BO authorized by the head of his department, and to look after the
Crown dues on timber cut under licenses from the Crown.

How do you reconcile that part of the last answer which relates to land
with the answer to the previous question ? That I must leave to Her
Majesty's Government or to the Crown Land Ageat himself. But the

i^> %

i t J ■ 1i

apparent discrepancy may be thus explained. There are no means ui
obtaining a grant in the district, the grant must be obtained in Quebec.
An emigrant may purchase there, but he cannot even then always obtain
the lot he would choose, for he must be content to purchase one of tl)o.x>
put up for sale, and the sales, according to the existing system, only, I be-
lieve, take place periodically by order from Quebec, and of lands previously
surveyed and published for sale. Tfan emigrant could, on going to ii
certain Cro«rn Land Office, inspect a diagram of lands in any given part
of the country, make his selection, and on paying his lot obtain an im.
mediate title, I think it would induce hundreds of settlers to remain in
the country, who leave it in disappointment and disgust, taking .vitli
them capital, and industry more valuable than capital, to enrich the neigh-
bouring states.

ill 3

5 t 1:

i i'

,i . I,

,. 1?

re are no means oj
ained in Quebec,
Ihen always o!)taiii
•chase one of tlioso
system, only, I be-
of lands previously
Id, on going to !,
in any given part
s lot obtain an ini.
lers to remain in
isgust, taking witli
) enrich the neisfli.

Hmry LeMeaurkr, Esquice.

"What liave been tyour opportanitieB of observing the operation of the
system 'wbich has been pursued in the dispossd of land in this Pro-
vince ?

I have resided in the Province since the year 1814, and for eight years
I have resided in a country district. I am myself a large owner of wild
land in the townships and have two se*;.'ed farms there, and from having
a commercial estabUshment in Granby, hive very frequently visited that
part of the country.

You have naturally been led to notice the effects which have been pro-
duced upon the settlement and improvement of the country by the exist-
ence of large tracts of land which have become private property and are
still in a perfectly wild state ; what in your opinion would be the fitting
remedy for the evils thus occasioned ?

The opening of roads and communication throughout the country
which might easily be effected by a tax upon lands. A great part of the
evils to which the question refers have been caused by the lands being in
the possession of absentees, who have done nothing towards the improve-
ment of the roads or opening the country.

Then you are favorable to a general wild land tax ?

Decidedly, as the only means of bringing that part of the country into
cultivation, but not upon an uniform scale.

What is the nature of your objection to an uniform scale of taxation in
this case ?

The difference in the value of the wild lands. In some partially settled
townships the lands may be worth from two to four dollars an acre, whilst
in others^ altogether in a wild state, the value may not exceed two shil-
lings.

Does this difference of value arise from a difference in the fertility of
the soil or from the greater value given in some cases by the proximity of
settlement ?

Altogether from the greater value given by the proximity of settle-
ment.

Upon what scale then would you propose that the tax should be
levied 1

I would propose that the whole of the townships should be valued, and
that a scale of taxation in proportion to that value should be levied in each
township.

But supposing that the whole produce of the tax were applied to the gene-
ral improvement of the country by the opening of the roads, would not
the owners of the land, which as you say is now least valuable, derive pro-
bably more proportionate advantage from its application than those whose
land being near to the settled districts possess already a considerable
value ; and would not this counterbalance the seeming injustice of laying
on an uniform tax upon lands of different value ?

I think not ; I think that the partially settled townships will derive a
greater proportionate advantage than the distant townships, from the
application of the tax as new settlers will always give a preference to the
neighbourhood of other settlements and of a market. I would, however,
propose that the valuation which I have suggested, as the basis of the
tax, should be renewed every three years, to provide against any unfJair-

IWi

ness arising from alteration in the value of the lands. I should recom-
mend that the townships should be classed according to the value of land
in them and should be taxed in classes, that set of townships paying the
highest tax in which land was of the greatest value and so on.

■t

should recom-
he value of land
ships paying the

) on.

James Bell Forsyth, Esquire.

How long have you resided in this country ?

I was born in Upper Canada, and except having been educated in
England, have always resided in these provinces.

You have been led I believe, to pay attention to the subject of emigra-
tion from Britain.especially with respect to the poorer class of emigrants ?
I have.

Emigration of this description appears hitherto to have been attended
with many evils, but to have been improved of late years ?

It has been improved with respect to the destitute sick, and to the
totally destitute, by means of the Emigrant Society, and the fund raised
by the Emigrant Tax, but with regard to the main body of emigrants,
the evil results of a total want of system are as conspicuous as ever.

Will you be so good as to specify what you consider the defects of the
present mode of proceeding?

The great evils that have hitherto existed, have arisen from the want of
system, and especially from the want of all adequate means of information,
advice and guardianship. This want of information necessarily gives a
vagrant character to their movements. Unable to obtain information as
to the best mode of proceeding in this province, they move onward to To-
ronto, and finding the same want there, they become disgusted, and leave
the province in large numbers to become citizens of the American Union.
In what proportion do you suppose, (not asking you to speak with pre-
cision) do emigrants from Britain proceed to the United States ?

My observation on the subject has led me to estimate this amount at
(iO in the 100 during the last few years, but it should be observed, that
a great number of emigrants intending to settle in the states, come by
way of the St. Lawrence, in consequence, of the greater cheapness of the
passage, arising from the operation of the lumber trade, which brings out
so many large vessels in ballast. The ordinary price of a steerage pas-
sage to New York is from £8 to £10, while the same passage from En-
gland to Quebec costs from £2 10s. to £4.

Yon mean by the want of information, advice and guardianship, that
the emigrants are left to shift for themselves in a strange country, respect-
ing which they know next to nothing ?

Yes, they have no person to apply to but the government agent for
emigrants, who, however willing he may be to afford them information,
has not (for want of adequate means) his office upon that extensive scale
upon which it ought to be placed, in order to be commensurate with the
wants of the emigrants.

What are the means by which, as you suppose, emigration of the poorer
classes might be conducted with the greatest advantage to themselves
and this province ?

My idea is, that there should be a Board of Management in England,
and a corresponding Board here, acting with unity of purpose. Each
board having its separate agencies, the one for the purpose of promoting
the emigration of the most suitable class from England, and superintend-
ing the arrangements for their passage,and their being landed here in good
health and spirits ; and the other for the purpose of carefully distributing
them through the provinces, in tlie manner most conducive to their ad-
vantage. One duty of the board here should be to supply tbe board at
home with accurate information as to the state of the labor market

i'i'

11 f

■

i«r i

and the class of persons iirhose labor was most in demand. It would be
highly desirable that the whole of the emigration should be under the
superintendence and authority of the two boards, whether the emigrants
paid their own passage or not, as it would otherwise be impossible to es-
tablish the requisite discipline. Besides that, the captains would be under
more control than it is possible to establish over them by any passengers,
Act, not having any special board appointed to enforce its provisions.
I consider that the emigrant should be under the guardianship of the
board here for twelve months after his arrival, or until he has obtained
sufficient experience of the country to shift for himself. Poor emigrants
coming to this country, should, for their own eakes, be considered in the
light of children, not to be spoiled by our care, but to be judiciously aided
and supported during the necessary period of their helplessness, whicli
would scarcely ever exceed twelve months. A good deal would depend
upon the selection of persons of industrious and prudent habits, and it has
occurred to me, that an efiicient mode of proceeding would be, (hat the
board at home, through the heads of different religious denominations
should induce young clergymen to enlist as it were, a body of emigrants
to accompany them to this country as their guide and pastor, and to
establish himself in the midst of them here, upon a tract previously pre-
pared for their reception, with provision for the decent maintenance of
the minister and for public worship. I am Inclined to think that by this
means in nine cases out of ten, the emigrants would be fixed upon the
land instead of quitting their settlements as now commonly happens,
because they are really in the wilderness without any social ties. The
provision for the clergymen should depend upon his bringing out a cer<
tain number of families. 1 should be disposed to say from 150 to 200
families, and the provision would consist partly of a money payment
of from £100 to £150 per annum, and partly of an endowment of 200
acres, as glebe land. I presume each body of emigrants to have been
brought out at the public expense, and would make that expense a
charge upon the land assigned to them. The government should not
give these lands to the emigrants and I also presume thai the price would
he made payable by eight or ten annual instalments, with interest, the
whole amount ultimately raised, being sufficient to cover the entire cost
of the settlement, including the expense of the passage from England,
and of the religious provision. I should also suggest, that if the go-
vernment is at all afraid of the expense, i should imagine that english
capitalists would be willing to purchase the obligation of thi settler at
a reduction of from 25 to 35 per cent, which would thus repay the
government the whole expense of their outlay, and enable them "to re-
peat the process over and orer again. The security of the pur-
chasers of these obligations would be the land itself, which would not
become the absolute property of the settler, until the whole amount
was paid.

The principle of the plan as I understand it, is, that the crown rev-
enue, derived from sales of land should be made as security for loans of
which the produce should be employed for the purpose of emigration
and setlluinent, including religious provision ?

That is the principle; but my plan contemplates an absolute disposal
of the obligations at whatever they would bring instead of a loan.

What price do you think should be required for the land under the
proposed system ?

(J9

d. It would be
Id be under the
!r the emigrants
npossible to es-
3 would be under

any passengers,
3 its provisions,
dianship of the
he has obtained

Poor emigrants
considered in the
judiciously aided
plessness, which
I would depend
liabitSj and it has
luld be, that the
IS denominations
jdy of emigrants

pastor, and to

previously pre-
. maintenance of
hink that by this
i fixed upon the
nniunly happens,
social ties. The
igiiig out a cer<
•om 150 to 200

money payment
dowment of 200
s to have been

that expense a
(lent should not
I the price would
th interest, the
T the entire cost
B from England,
, that if the go-
ne that english
jf thi settler at

thus repay the
able them "to re-
•ily of the pur-
Khich would not
whole amount

I thmk 109. should be the minimum, and that the emigrant would be
belter able to pay this than 5s. cash ; or there might be fZlJcTonl
for ready money and one for payment by instalments. '"'""'''' °"«

Would It not be necessary in that case that the minimum price of all
crown lands should be raised to the same amount ?

„. I 'l''"J',M' ""^". f'^!'. * '^'.•*'"' **""« °^ *•>« '^nds could not be sold
vaSabie ^^''° ''*"''"' »»'"1 became more scarce and

' i<

IT.

the crown rev-
irily for loans of
ie of emigration

ibsolutc disposal

of u loan.

'■ land under the

I'- *'

Mr. Patrick Daly, Commissioned Surveyor of the Province of Lower
Canada.

• . < . . . . . . . I . , . I •■ .

You are just come to Quebec, to make a representation as to tlie state
of the township of Durham ?

I am. ; ' t

What is the point you wish to ascertain ?
' Whether I can have authority to establish a ne\y line between the sixth
and seventh ranges of the township of Durham.

What would be the consequence of such a change ?

In consequence of a part of the old range line being found incorrect to
the extent of sixty perches, whereby the seventh would lose about one-
fifth of its dimensions, and the sume amount would be improperly added
to the sixth. The change I wish to make would set this right.

How did you discover that the line was incorrect ?

In consequence of having been employed by Captain Ployart, of Dur-
ham, to run the side lines of lot number lifteen in (he sixth range, in
order to determine the extent of his property, he being the proprietor of
that lot. I discovered that the line was incorrect, as I have described
already, and I cannot proceed to rectify the error without authority from
the Governor, or some person appointed by the Governor, as we have
not any laws in the province to enable me to make anew range line ; and
as the old range line is not to be found, with the exception of a small
part, which is in the wrong place as I have described.

Would a new line have the effect of taking away land, in actual pos-
session, from any person and giving it to another ?

Yes, it would.

Do you suppose that other range lines in this township are correct or
incorrect ?

Some are correct, but, they are generally incorrect ; my attention,
however, has not been particularly called to them.

Are not the proprietors of the other lots in which the lines are incorrect,
anxious to have the limits of their property settled ?

Yes, very anxious ; more particularly the inhabitants of the third
range, about one-quarter of whose property is taken by the inhabitants ot
the second range, through the means of an erroneous oM range line, as has
been proved by various subsequent surveys duly sworn to. I am re
quested by all the inhabitants of the third range to take steps to obtain
a new range line.

Have they ever appUed before for this ratification of the survey ?

Yes, they applied to the Surveyor General's Department, by a state-
ment made by me, and now in the Surveyor Gcnoral's Office, but the
answer was, that there was no law in the Province to authorize the
changing of a range line, however incorrect, without the consent of all
the parties concerned.

Then all the parties did not concur in this case ?
No ; they did not.

Why not ?

Because many of tho?e who improperly gained by this error, wished to
retain what rightly belonged to their neighbour.

As the former application was fruitless, upon what ground do you now
proceed ?

ivince of Lower
>n as to the state

ctween the sixth

lund incorrect to
lose about one-
1 properly added
right.

Pioyart, of Dur-

le sixth range, in
he proprietor of
I have described

authority from
ar, as we have

range Une ; and
option of a small

in actual pos-

• y.r

Upon the confidence that as Lord Durham has greater power than
other Governors, he may be pleased to consider this great loss of pro.
perty to the people, and give orders to correct thi.' evil.

Are you acquainted with other townships ?

Yes.

Have you found the surveys of them generally correct or incorrect ?

I have found the surveys of the township of Windsor as incorrect, or
even more so than that of the township of Durham, which can bo proved
by the most reliable testimony. Generally, and with the exception of
the township of Wickham, I found them quite incorrect. I speak only
from my personal experience, and not from what I have heard.

'^■■y

are correct or

; my attention,

les are incorrect,

Us of the third
le inhabitants of
ange line, as has
to. I am n\
steps to obtain

3 survey ?
nt, by a state-
Office, but the
) auihorize the
he consent of all

error, wished to
md do you now

■II

t" '

Mr. James Keough Miller, and Ma^iitrate, from the district of
Quebec, and Commiuioner of the Summary Court for the Township
of Ireland.

You have had many opportunities of observing the state of the
townships P

I have resided for seven years in the township of Ireland, and have
had considerable experience.

Are there not great difficulties in the way of the settlement and im-
provement of the county ofMegantic, in consequence nf (he state of
the roads f

Yes, there are.

To what circumstances do you attribute the dcficienry uf the roads,
and their bad state of repair ?

The first cause is the neglect of (he Grand Voyer in performing his
duty in visiting that part of the country, and the consequent neglect
of the road surveyors, the rest is the great number of Iota of land owned
by absentee proprietors upon the principal roads, and the difHculty,
owing to the deficiency of the present road law, in compelling the
absentee proprietors to contribute to the repair of the rouds.

What is the nature of the deficiency of the road law to which you
allude ?

When proprietors of land do not reside upon their property, there
arc no means of making the land contribute to the expense of repairing
roads, except by proceedings in the Court of King's Bench at Quebec,
to obtain power to sell the land, and now this cannot be done until
the road overseer has expended £10 in repair of that portion of the
road which belongs to that hit, wliicli thoy arc always unable to do, as
il might take ten years before the money laid out in respect of any par-
ticular lot amounted to this sum, and during the whole of that time the
individual would be laying out of his money.

Have there been any instances in which absentccsproprietors have con-
tributed to the expense of roads passing by llicir properly ?

I have not known of any, whenever applications have been made to
them on the subject, the invariable answer has been, that if the people
want roads they must pay for (hem.

le district of
lie Township

state of tlic

nd, and liavc

ment and im-
T the state or

r of the roads,

irfurming his

quent neglect

[)f land owned

the difticulty,

tmpeiling the

ds.

which you

•operty, there
3 of repairing
:h at Quebec,
lie done until
ortion of the
ibic to do. as
ct of any par-
that time the

tors havecon-

)con made to
if the people

The Honorable Jonathan SeveU, Chief Justice of the Poviiicc uf
Lower Canada.

You have been a rrsidcnt in this Province for a considerable number
of years?

For nearly forty nine years.

During that time you hnvc probably hau many opportunities of xccing
thoefiect produced upon the state of^the province by the large tract of
land grunted by the crown and allowed to remain in a wild state >

I havo.

Have you considered to what extent the injurious effects resulting
from this amount of wild appropriated land, might be remedied by the
imposition of a general tax upon all wild land ?

In the first place such a tax would be virtually a quit rent. If laid,
it must bo either of a burdensome description in order to produce a
pressure upon the proprietor, and thereby force him to cultivate or set-
tle his land, or of a small amount, in which case it would produce the
same eflects that the quit rents have produced, and like them, would be
ultimately abandoned. If it were of the former description, as it ap.

(tears to me that the neglect to cultivate on the part of the owner of
and has been produced as much by the conduct of the government
itself, by having persisted in grants according to the chccquercd dia-
eruiii, notwithstanding the representation made by the Governor iu
Council against that system to Lord Castlcreagh, as by the default of
the proprietor, it may be considered a tax that ought not, in justice, to
be laid ou the proprietors. The greatest injury to the settlement of
the country, produced by the non-cultivation of the proprietors, is
the want of roads, which they could not make without taking upon
themselves the burden and expense of making them, not only through
their own lots, but also through the crown and clergy reserves.

Would not this objection be removed if the crown and the clergy
were compelled to contribute towards the expense of roads in equal
proportion.

I think it would, provided a course were adopted for laying out the
roads, in the first instance, by the introduction of the Grand Juries of the
country, with the concurrence of the Justices of the Quarter Session,
and an Assessment were then made, with due notice to the propric-
•tors whose lands are oFscssed, and an equity of redemption allowed in
the case of sale during one year after the sale had taken place, upon
payment of the purchai^c money, with interest, and any further sums
which may be required to make up the amount of the assessment.

As tilt; want of roads is not the only injury which these wild lands
inflict upon the sctthd districts of the province, do you sec any objec-
tion to a tax which should be imposed for the purpose of compelling
the proprietors of wild land to settle and cultivate tlicir property ?

I see no objection to an occasional tax, by way of assessment upon
llie lands of all proprietors, for roads, bridges and other country pur-
poses, in the manner before mentioned.

The question however is, whether in your opinion there arc any ob-
jections to a tax upon all wild lands, not merely for the purpose of mak-
ing roads, bridges, &c. but for the sake of rendering it the interest of
the proprietor to cultivate or settle his land ?

I beg leave to refer to what I have said before, in answer to a for-

'"4',' •

ii)

mcr qiictition, and to add lliiit u p^cncral tax in in^ opinion wunid rullii r
iinpi'dc in itsi cilectst tliu Nctttlcmrni ut' the pruvince tliun proniolc it,
nnd tliiit tlic object proposed by »\u\i u tax may with greater < rrtiiiiitv
be obtained by a^suiismenl in the innnner I have proponed, n» occiision
glionid require, und for the rcuHonn, I liiivc Rtalcd, with grcutor jiiHlicc.
Tlien your objection in to u general tax impo.sed by govcrniniiit ;
and you would approve of local uit8eiiiiment by tlie inliabi'tunis ol'ii town-
ship or county, tor the ucconiplishtncnt of local objcctM ?

1 should approve of asscHsnient by Grand Juries, in the manner I
have stated.

If the Grand Juries should refuse to make roads, would you see anv
objection to allowing u power to the government to take the necvssurv ',
ineuns for the purpose V

It would of course be in the power of the legislature to provide sucli
means as they might see proper if the Grand Jury refused. My objec-
tion is not, us I have said before, to taxation for county purposes, hut
to the means proposed for raising it, by a general tax, conceiving as I
do, that the assessment is equally elTectual and more fair. I should
object to laying a land tax upon any man's land for purposes which arc
not yet defined. My objections to such a tax in brief, are 1st that for
the reasons I have stated, it would bear hard upon the proprietor:
2nd. it would impede the settlement of the province, as it would Ik
equivalent to a quit rent, and produce the same consequences ; dd. h\
assessment, labor would always be cfTectually procured, to the grout
advantage of the new settlers, who have very little specie indeed for
the payment of taxes.

Witliiii what limits, us to extent of lund, would you propose that the
|)ower of local ussessmcnt should be confined ?
Within the jurisdiction of each Court of Quarter Sessions.
In whom would you place the power of assessment ?
In the Griind Jury, with tliu concurrence of the Court of Quarter
Sessions.

Of what class do the Grand Juries and the Court of Quarter Session'^
consist ?

The Court of Quarter Sessions consists of Magistrates, appointed for
the District by the Crown ; uud the Grand Juries of the better classes ol
the settlers.

You would then make it optional with the Grand Jurors and
Magistrates to lay an assessment or not, as they should please ?
I would.

"Would it not happen that the Grand Jurors and Magistrates might
he proprietors of wild land ?

It is very possible that some might be, but the large proprietors would
be as competent judges of the advantages to be derived from any road Id
themselves and to others, as those of minor estate.

Is it not a general complaint that the largo proprietors have neglected
to take any steps for the making of roads, &c. ?

It is ; but I cannot say deservedly, as I have stated before ; and I say
this because the perseverance in the chequered diagram by the orders uf
the Home Government has been the principal cause of the want of
roads.

Arc you acquainted with the system of leaders and associates?
I am aware that leaders had a^^sociatcs.

on Would rudii r
iiiii iirnniolc it,
rt'uler < crtiiiiitv
I. n» (icciisiiiii
I j^rculrr jiislitc.
>v govcrmiiriit ;
ituiiis old town-

» llie iiiaiiiier I

Duld ^ou see aiiv
ke (lie iiecvi)8urv

! to provide such
luil. My objec
ty purpoHcs, hut
concciviiiju> n^ |
fttir. I sliouM
rpoMCs which arc-
are 1st flint for
■he proprietor:
us it would be
queiiccs; 3d. In
ed, to the grcut
^ccie indeed for

propose that the

ions. n

ourt of Quartii

Quarter Session*

s, appointed fur
) belter classes ol

Jurors and

please ?

agiatrates miglii i

(roprietors would '
from any road In

rs have ncglectwl

cfore ; and I say
1 by the orders of
se of the want of

ssociates ?

Do yon think that iho mode of grtinting by the ('hecc|ncrcd ^raiii
huM conduced more to the want of roads than ihu nyRtom of leiutLi-^ and
usMooialoM ?

I think it has bh niiicli.

Will you bo logood as to explain in what way you think a bus hud n«
niuchcliect in prcvcniiiig tlic tormalion of roauM ^'

iiy the want of means to make roads through the Crown and Clergy
Reserves, which consequently h'ft the burden of making roads through
tlioso lots upon llie proprietor in addition to their own

That is only a repetition of your former stulemcnt, nnd lakes no iiotico
of the evil produced by enormous grunlii to individuals under the sys-
tem of leaders and ussocialcs — do you consider the evils of these largi-
grants as less than those arising from tiie cheoquered system ?

Probably it is not less, but I really cannot ^av, 1 have no knowledge
of the course that has been pursued by the k'uders and tho associates, »•*
I am not myself a grantee of llic Crown ■•>r 4iiy land wiialcvcr, except
what I hold by purchase from the Crown.

1 wish to explain that the tax which is submitted to your opinion
would not be like a local assci«sment for any specific purpose, such as that
of makin;r u load, but would be in the nature of u fine for the purpose of
abolishing a nuisance of large tracts of land remaining in a wild state,
because they have been placed by free grant out of the control of llie
Government, and arc totally neglected by their absentee proprietors. —
It is in that light that T respeell'ully request of you to stale your opinion
of the tax, thu Commissioners having been inlormcd that you had strong
ohjectioDS to such a tax, and being desirous that all the objections to
the tax should be reported to the Crown, as coining from a gentleman
of your known experience and ability.

The objection that I have to u general (ax, I have endeavoured to ex-
plain ; if it were to operate as a line, I do not sec that they would be
altered. A Hue is a penalty for some individual misconduct, but a
general tax, if a fine, would operate as a general punishment, instead of
l>eing confined to those whose misconduct may have merited it.

Has your attention been at all directed to the state of the surveys in
ibis province and of defects in titles to property in consequence of
errors in the surveys P

I have known of many defects in the surveys which have appeared in
many cases before mc, and am apprehensive that they arc very numer-
ous. I can only stale from my own opinion, two remedies by which
these defects may be in some degree remedied, the one is by running
anew the outlines of the several townships, the other an act to quiet
possession such as has been heretofore passed in other provinces. I
am afraid that running the outlines of the townships would not be of
any great benefit beyond exposing the errors.

!»■ 'i

I'tt?

il;

Alexander Carlisle Buchanan, Esquire, Chief Agent for Eniigrauls for
Upper and Lower Canada.

How long have yon held your present office ?

Since November 1835, I have been acting Agent, and rficivod
the appointment of Agent in April last as succeisor to my Uix-te, who
held it from the rommencemenl of the appointment in the year l82H.

The office was created, was it not, in consequence of the recoininen-
dation of a committee of the House of Commons ?

Yes it was.

What are the duties of the office.

To furnish correct information to emigrants as to the best place of ob-
taining settlement and employment for those who are in want.

How is this done?

I have printed instructions distributed at Grosse Isle, and on board the
vessels here on their arrival in the harbour. The instructions are for the
purpose of preventing imposition npon emigrants on their arrival, and
to acquaint (hem with the protection which the law affords them, and
also with the several routes to the different settlements of the two Pro-
vinces, where they would be likely to obtain land and employment.
My duty is also to*^ correspond with the heads and managers of public
works and improvements going on in either province, and to obtain
from them a correct estimate of the number of labourers and arlijians
they may require.

Do you furnish any authority at home with regular information as to
the demand for labour in these provinces ?

My uncle used to correspond directly with Mr. Hay ami Mr. Wilmot
Horton, who were then in (he Colonial Office, and the annual report
which is made up atllie close of the season and given in to the Governor
in Chief, is sent to (he Colonial Secretary for (he information of Her
Majesty's government.

Does that annual report contain an account of the state of the demand
for labour in (he colony during (he past year?

Yes it stales where (he greatest demand for labour has been uuriiig the
past season, and (he prospect for the ensuing season,

Does it give pailiculars as to (he amoun( of wages 1

Some years it docs, others it does not. This generally appears in an
appendix, consisting of cojiies of the weekly reports made to (ho Go-
vernor in Chief.

Have you a regularly established correspondence with (he dilTerent
districts of the province for the purpose of giving information as to the
state of (he demand for labour ?

Yes, with the different egents established in the Upper Province.
There are no other agen(s (ban myself in the Lower Province, but I
have correspondents in the eastern trwnships, (he place where (lie prin-
cipal demand for labour exis(s.
Correspondence with an agent ?

Wi(h Mr. Webster the sub-commissioiier of the British North AiTiori-

can Land Com|>any, as the person upon whom the most reliance could

be placed for the distribution of (he funds remitted by the parishes for

the benefit of the pauper emigrants.

Does your office contain copies of the correspondence upon this subject ?

Emigrauls fur

, mill rtM'c-ivcd
ly Uncle, who
year l»2!S.
the recomiiicn-

!St place of ol).
want.

id on board the
ions are for the
ir arrival, and
rds them, and
>f the two Pro-
employment.
5ora of public
\nd to obtain
rsnnd arli£an>i

rmation as to

id Mr. Wilmol
annual report
) the Governor
nation of Her

)fthe demand

een uuring (he

appears m an
Jo to the Go-

Ii t!ie different
atioii as (o the

ipor Province,
'oviiicc, but 1
here the prin-

Vorlii Amori-
reliaiiee could
e parishes for

1 ihissuhject ?

Yes, but almost every letter of consequence is contained in the ap-
pendi.Y to the reports of 1835 and 1836.

Does yonr office act under instructions from the Colonial Department
at home 1

Yes, under instructions from Lord Goderich to Sir John Colborne,
and transmitted to Mr. Buchanan by Lord Aylmer.

Have you any direct correspondence with the government nt home ?

I have never since my appointment corresponded directly with any
officer of the government ot home.

Is there any Offcer of the Government at home with whom, in case
of necessity, you could correspond directly .'

The office has corresponded with Mr. Pinnock, upon the subject of
some pauper emigrants, who were forwarded under his immediate super-
intendance, and I understand that Mr. Elliott has been appointed Agent
General for Emigration. I have had no communication from him, but
have addressed a letter to him requesting any instructions that he might
think proper to communicate for my guidance.

Are there any funds at the disposal of your office ?

Not any. The fund raised by the Emigrant Tax is expended by the
Emigrant Society.

How many persons does your office employ, and what are the sala-
ries ?

The following is the list of salaries and allowances for this office, but
there is at present no Assistant Agent. Previous to Mr. Buchanan, Chief
Agent, being obliged to leave this country for the benefit of his health in
1835. I filled the offie of Assistant Agent, and resided at Montreal.

Allowances to Emigrant Department : —

£400 per annum.
100
40
25
30
10
12
10
50

Chief Agent's Salary,
Assistant Agent, - - ^

Clerk, . - - -

Boat-hire, and watermen boarding vessels.
Office rent, . . -

Stationery, - * » »

Printing, » # »

Postages, - # • «

Travelling expenses,
Does this account include Upper Canada ?
No ; it does not.

Referring 'to the instructions which you have mentioned as regulating
the proceedings of your office, do they contain any specific directions as
to the duties which you have to perfom ?

I conceive that they do not ; in fact they were not addressed to my
ouice. I suppose that they were transmitted to my predecessor in
order that he might be acquainted with the views of the Home Govern-
ment on the subject.

Have there then been no specific instructions for the guidance of the
Agent for Emigrants from the time of the creation of the office to the
present moment ?

There may have been, but I am not aware of any. I have myself fol-
lowed the routine that I found established. I had proposed to have
enclosed to Lord Durham a copy of the Despatch from Lord Goderich,

lir

l''i

s'V

H '

li^

with a request that I might be favored with such instructions ad he might
please to direct.

Then you are not aware whether your predecessor was guided by any
instructions in his view of the nature and limit of the duties of his office,
or whether he acted entirely upon his own judgment ?

I am not aware that he had any instructions. In all cases that he found
difficulty in he applied to the Governor in Chief ; the office has at all times
been in constant communication with the Governor in Chief, upon all
subjects upon which any difficulty has arisen.

Then you have no other rule than the routine established by your pre-
decessor, and the will of the Governor, in cases where there has been
no precedent ?

That is the case.

It appears that you have not any direct official communication as to the
administraUan of your office, except with the Governor of this Pro-
vince ?

With the Governor of this Province and also with the Governor of Up-
per Canada.

Upon what subjects have you communicated with the Governor of
Upper Canada.

I have generally addressed him in the spring and fall, requesting in-
structions from him as to the prospect of employment in his Province for
the ensuing season, and also to receive any instructions which it may
please His Excellency to adopt, as regards emigrants proceeding to Upper
Canada.

Then your communicalions with the Governor of Upper Canada were
in fact only in the same nature as those which you might have with an
agent for emigrants, and do not in any manner concern the general
duties of your office ?

Yes, but at the time of the establishment of this office, there were no
ogents for emigrants in Upper Canada.

Have you any correct information as to (he ultimate fate of the emi-
grants who arrive at this port ?

Not as to their ultimate fate, but at the close of each season I get a
return made from the Emigrant Agents in the Upper Province, as to (he
number who may have settled in their respective districts. This itifor.
ination is however, necessarily, very general.

.: »

* '•

Y i

as he might

ded by any
9 ofhis office,

that he found
IS at all times
ief, upon all

)y your pre-
ere has been

tion as to the
• of this Pro,

pernor of Up-

3 Governor of

^questing in-
; Province for
which it may
ling to Upper

I!anada were
lave with an
1 the general

here were no

e of the emi-

ason I get a

ce, as to the

This iiifor.

Joshph 8key, Esq. M. D. Deputy Inspector General of Hospitals.

How long have you resided tn this province f
Since 1829.

You are President of the Quebec Emigrant Society, and have been for
some years an active member of the committee 1

Yes.

When was the society instituted?

The existence of the society can be traced, imperfectly as far back as
the year 1820 ; in the year 188S, the society was charged with the dis-
bursement of one fourth part of the fund raised by <.he Act of 1st Wil-
liam 4th, chap. 17th for the assistance of poor emigrants.

With what object was the society instituted ?

To supply food, clothing, fuel and medical assistance to destitute emi-
grants, and to assist in forwarding them to the Upper Province.

Are you awaie, whether, at the time of the formation of the society,
there were many emigrants in a state of destitution ?

I was not in Canada at tliat time, and have therefore no personal
knowledge of the fact, but have no iloubl that such was liic case inas-
much as the society was formed for the cxpr^'ss purpose of relieving the
destitute emigrant.

As a member of the committee and president of the society, you have
had peculiar means of becoming acquainted with the condition of the
poorer class of emigrants to this province during the list six years ?

Yes I think I may sny that I have.

Will you be sogood as to describe their condition generally ; those I
mean with whom the society was brought into communication ?

The emigrants wilii families from the south of Ireland, in par-
ticular, as well as the pauper emigrant from England, sent by
parishes^ in large proportions arrive in a stale of great |)overty — I should
say that the majority of the voluntary emigrants from England and from
the North of Ireland do not in general arrive in a slate^ of actual destitu-
tion since they generally possess a little money, unless their families are
very large. We have had occasion to remark upon the manner in
which pauper cnngrants have been sent fiom England, and to recom-
mend that funds for their location should be furnished by the parishes,
and entrusted to authorized agents here, for their benefit. The forego-
ing observations apply in some degree to paujjer Engli.-h emigrants, but
to a far greater (legrro to those fronj Ireland, and particularly from the
South of Ireland.

What has generally been the condition of a pauper emigrant from
England, upon his arrival in this province ?

Generally eiilier with nothing or with a very small sum in his pocket,
enterlaining the most erroneous idea as to his |)rospects here, cxprciing
immediate and constant employment at atnple wages, entirely ignorant
of the nature of the country and of the |)lace where labor is most in de-
mand, and of the best means by whicli to obtain employment. He has
landed from the ship p.nd from his apathy and want of energy, has
loitered about the wharves, waiting for the offer of employment, orifhe
obtained employment, he calculated upon its perniainnce, and found
himself at the begining of the winter, when there is lillle or no employ-
ment for labor in this part of the country, (li:cliarg'ed, and without any

■.:''l

■vsl,

i'.!

provision for the wants of a Canadian winter. In this way emigrants have
often accumulated in Quebec at the end of summer, encombersd it with
indigent inhabitants, and formed the most onerous burden on the chari-
table funds of the community ; to a less degree perhaps since the tax
upon emigrants was levied, ai:d since the Emigrant Society have has-
tened their progress.

Had such emigrants usually been in a healthy stale upon their arrival]

Upon thei r arrival here, I should say generally, yes, because though
very often too weak for labor, being in a state of convalescence, from
disease. Siice 1832, the Quarantine Establishment at Gross Isle has
arrested the disease there.

But I mean upon their arrival in the river ?

Upon their arrival in the tiveragreat numberof sick have landed, and
a regular importation of contagious diseases into this country has, an-
nually, taken place.

That disease originated of course on board of ship ?

Oh yes.

And was occasioned by bad management ?

I should say so, in consequence of the ships being ill found, ill pro-
visioned, over crowded, and ill ventilated. This is now in some degree
remedied by the present passenger act.

Has the mortality during the voyage been great ?

I should say that it has been dreadful. To such an extent, that in
1834, the inhabitants of Quebec, taking alarm at the number of ship-
wrecks, the mortality of the passengers, and the fatal diseases which
accumulated at the Quarantine Establishment at Grosse Isle, and the
Emigrant Hospital of this city, involving the Inhabitants ^f Quebec in
the calamity, called upon the Emigrant Society to take the subject into
consideration, and make representations to the Government thereon. —
In point of fact there has been an annual importation of contagious
diseases into this city from the emigrant ships, and I believe that I shall
be confirmed in that opinion by the best informed of the medical practi.
tioners of this city, to whom I beg to refer for more precise informa*
tion.

Could you state generally what has been the common fate of the emi-
grants of the class in question, leaving a ship at Quebec 1

A few remained here ; the greater part proceeded up the river, and
ultimately, I believe, to the upper Province or to the United Slates.

Many of them have died here, have they not ?

In some years considerable mortality has existed among them, and in
1832 and 1834, the years of epidemic Cholera, the mortality was fright*
ful.

Is there any record by which one could ascertain the fate of poorer
emigrants ?

I am not awais of any in the lower Province ; but I think it not impos-
sible that such may exist in Upper Canada. We have nothing of the
kind here.

What have been the proceedings of the Society, in resspect of poorer
emigrants ?

Up to the year 1832, the charitable and private fund of the Society
was applied as before staled ; more lately that fund has been applied to
relieve wants not contemplated by the Provincial Act, That portion of
^jcfund raised under liiat Act by the tax upon cnugrants, which has bcc».

ligrants have
bersd it vritli
on the chari-
since the tax
ty have has*

their arrival]
ause though
see nee, from
'OSS Isle has

'e landed, and
inlry has, an-

3und, ill pro-
some degree

;ent, that in
imber of ship-
seases which

Isle, and the
f Quebec in

subject into
it thereon. —
of contagious
3 that I "shall
idical practi.
;ise informa>

of the emi-

le river, and

States.

lem, and in
was fright-

ite of poorer

it not impos-
Ihing of the

ect of poorer

Ihe Society
;n applied to
lat portion ot
uch has bccu

entrustred to the Society, has been almost exclusively appropriated to
forwarding them up the river to Montreal, or to sending home such of
them as disease or accident rendered incapable of supporting themselves,
as well as those families, who, from the loss of those individuals upon
whose labour they depended for support, would have been burdensome to
the country. At times such individauls and families have been assisted
with free passages to the neighbouring Provinces, or even to the States,
if such assistance would enable them to join friends capablr- of assistintr
them. The Society is responsible for the due appropriation of the public
funds, with which it is entrusted, to Commissioners named by the Gover-
nor. The Society is governed in its operation by certain rules which
determine the mode of distribution of its funds, and the discription of the
individuals to whom relief shall be given. Since 1832, when a fourth of
the fund raised under the Provincial Act, was placed at the disposal of
the Society, they have received from that source, £5,795 5s. '2-|d. ;
have forwarded 16,884 emigrants, (the great mass of wlioin have been
sent to Montreal,) out of a total emigration of 1GG,242, or about one-
ninth of the whole. They have received during the same period, from
private charity, £1,019 lOs. 2d., and have assisted 5,045 persons in the
manner formerly described ; the amount from the '"ormer source is less
than the number of emigrants during the period would give by the emi-
gration or capitation tax, from the Provincial Act having expired in
1834, and not been renewed till 1835, so that during tiie former year,
which from the prevalence of epidemic cholera, was one of great suffer-
ing to the poorer emigrants ; the Society had at its disposal only about
£416 for uli purposes. In addition to this the Society had endeavoured
by various representations to the Government, to obtain improvements,
in the system of emigration, and the removal of various hardships to
which the emigrants have been, and to some of which they still are
subject ; for example, in the year 1833, the mortality and distress which
occurred amongst commuted pensioners, coming out as emigrants, in-
duced us to represent the same to the Provincial Government, and to
deprecate the continuance of a system so ruinous to the pensioner enii-
grant,aud so injurious to the public. And in 1834, in compliance with
resolutions passed at a meeting of the citizens of Quebec, we inquired
into the operation of the Passengers' Act, the 9th George 4th, cap.
which operated very unfavorably to the life and health of emigrants,
and suggested certain improvements in it, many of which have been since
embodied in the present Passengers' Act.

Do you consider the present Passengers' Act sufficient for its pur-
pose ?

If its provisions were duly enforced in England, I should think it was
nearly suflicient. I am also inclined to think that a sufficiently qualified
medical man should be provided for a smaller number of emigrants than
the Act requires.

In what respect are the provisions of the Passengers' Act not suffi-
cently enforced ?

T think you might obtain from other persons a more correct answer to
this r lestion than I am able to give.

Do you think that the estabishment of a responsible authority at home
to enforce the provisions of the Passengers' A( t, before the departure of
the emigrants, would oe an improvement of the system ?

,- ■•■■«?'

"f <.*.ir

1>V-

Assuredly. i -

Is it your opinion that with proper arrangements, large bodies of emi-
grants might come from England to this country, without incurring the
evils that you have described ?

I should think they might under the Passengers' Act duly enforced, and
good preparatory provisions made in this country, but not without.

* if

■

- i

lies of cmi-
ncurring the

nl'orced, and
liout.

Henry Jessopp, Esquire.

You are Collector of Customs of the Port of Quebec ?
Yes ; I have been so since 1833.

You have had good opportunities, I presume, of observing the opera-
tion of the provisions of the Passengers' Act, so far as they affect emi-
grants arriving here from the United Kingdom ?
I have.

Will you be so good as to state whether you consider the present Passen-
gers' Act, as at present enforced, a sufficient provision for the protection
and well-being during the passage of the poorer and more ignorant class
of emigrants '!

If the provisions of the Act were strictly enforced by the Agents at
home, it might be, with certain improvements.

In what respect does it appear to you that the provisions of the Act
require to be more strictly enforced ?

It very often happens that the poorer emigrants have not a sufficiency
of provisions for the voyage ; that they should have a sufficiency of pro-
visions might be enforced under the Act which authorises the inspection
of provisions by the out-port Agents for Emigrants ; many instances have
come to my knowledge in which, from insufficiency of provisions, emi-
grants have been thrown upon the humanity of the captain or the charity
of their fellow passengers ; it would appear also from the fact that many
vessels have more emigrant passengers than the number allowed by law,
that sufficient attention is not paid, at the out port, to enforce the provi-
sions of the act, as to the proportion between the numbers and tonnage.
Have such instances been of recent occurrence ?

Not this season ; emigration having almost ceased in consequence, I
presume, of the political state of the Province ; but last year there were
several instances in which prosecution took place ; vessels are chartered
i'or emigration by persons whose sole object is to make money, and who
make a trade of evading the provisions of the act. This applies particu-
larly to vessels coming from Ireland. We have found, in very many
instances, that in vessels chartered in this way, the number was»greater
than allowed by law, and the captains have declared that the extra num-
bers smuggled themselves, or were smuggled on board, and were only
discovered after the vessel had been several days at sea. This might be
prevented by a stricter examination of the vessel. The Imperial Act
requires that the names, ages, sex, and occupation of each passenger
should be entered in a list certified by the Customs Officers at the out
port, and delivered by the captain with the ship's papers to the Officer of
the Customs here. Lists purporting to be correct are always delivered
to the Tide Surveyor, whose duty it is to m sler the passengers and com-
pare them with the list, and this list in many instances is wholly incor-
rect as to names and ages.

What is the object of hijsifying the age ?

Infants under 12 months do not pay any thing, children from 1 year
to 7 count only three to an adult ; from 7 to II, two ; and the object of
the falsification is to defraud the revenue by evading the tax upon emi-
grants, payable under the provincial law ; this tax is paid, not by the
emigrant, but by the shipowners, or the person who charters the vessel
■*sho therefore has a direct interest in the falsification.

With what object are the names faUiiied ?

A hst of persons is made out, and if any of them do not take theii
paB8ag;e, the names remain for others who may be substituted for them.

Does any practical inconvenience arise from this falsification ?

As to age, the obvious disadvantage of defeating the deliberate provi..
sion of the Act, as to the proportion between numbers nnd (onnage and
of evading the tax impoeed here. The falsification of names produces no
inconvenience, and I have only referred to it for the purpose of shewing
the careless manner in which the system is worked by the agents in tlio
United Kingdom. All prosecutions for the infringement of the Act take
place here, and much inconvenience arises from the delay and the expense
of prosecution.

13e so good as to describe that delay and that expense ?

Prosecution can only take place in the Vice Admiralty Court, which,
until lately, has only sat at certain intervals, and there is a necessity of
bringing up the captain and bis witnesses from the different coves, to the
serious injury of their business. The expense of prosecution in 183G,
amounted on the average to about £18 in each contested case ; the pen-
alty being only £22 — last year the masters of the diflferent vessels confes-
sed judgement, and the expenses of each case were about £11.

In what manner were these expenses incurred ?

By the Attorney General's bill, and the Court awarding the charges
against the Crown.

So the Attorney General was made the prosecutor under the Act ?

Yes, under our instructions to tend all cases to him.

And he is of course entitled to fees ?

Yes.

Which probably constitute the bulk of the expense ?

Nearly the whole expense consists of fees to the Attorney General, and
other oPiicers of the court.

Do any other points occur to you relating to defects in the administra-
tion of the Act in England ?

The emigrants should be examined by a medical man before embarkao
tion, so as to prevent disease from being taken on board, especially small
pox.

Be so good as to mention such suggestions of improvement of the pas.
sengers. Act as may have occured to you ?

lam of opinion that the penalty for exceeding the number of passen-
gers allowed by the act is too high in some cases, and too low in others.
The cases in which the penalty is too high, are where tlio number is not
exceeded by more than three or four, or where the Captains can prove
that the extra number have smuggled themselves on board, — in such cases,
though the penalty enforced may not be more than £5, the costs both of
the Captain and tht crown are the same, and are from £10 to £12 to the
former, this penalty is too low in all aggravated cases, and since it has
been decided that under the clauses which impose tlir; penally of from £5
to £20 for every offence, the whole number in excess constitutes but one
offence, the penalty becomes nugatory ; for in proportion to the greatness
of the offence, is the smallness of the penalty, a Captain having for instance
from forty to fifty above his number, may get by this excess from £80 to
£100, while the utmost penalty is only £20, — instead of this fixed {)cnalty
I would suggest that the penalty should be about £2 slprling for caclj

t take tlieii
d for them,
n?

srate provi„
onnage and
produces no
of shewing
ents in tlio
le Act take
the expense

irt, which,
eccssity of
ives, to the
1 in 1836,
! ; the pen-
sels confes-

he charges
! Act ?

eneral, and

administra-

! embarka-
cially small

of the pas, | ■

of passen-
V in others,
iber is not
i can prove
such cases,
)sts both of
£12 to the
ince it has
of from £^)
tcs but one
c greatness
or instance
•oni £80 to
xtl [jcnfilty
S for en(ik

have suggested in this

passenger, being about the passage money for each, in this way no
master uf a vessel could find it to his interest to pass the hmits fixed by
the law, I have already brought the subject under ihc notice of the
board of Customs by a letter written early in January, but have not
heard any thing from them on the subject; there should also 1 ihiiiU be a.
power of summary conviction, before two Magistrates, for inlVingcinciits of
the act instead of the prosecution before the Court of Admiralty ; in this
case the penalty might easily be awarded according to the number uf
pusiscngcrs exceeding the limit allowed by law.

Do you think that such improvements as you
act are absoUiteiy necessary 'f

I think that they arc necessary to impose a chock upon persons who
make a trade of providing the jiassages for emigrants, as well as for the
benefit of the emigrants themselves in such cases. All complaints with
regard to excess of numbers and the condition of the Kniigrants tluring
their passage and at their arrival here, arc attended to by the Emigrant
Socii'ty and the agent for emigration, but there is great dithculty in
substantiating the latter.

What has been the ed'ect of the lumber trade upon the cost and security
of the passage of the Emigrant to this country ?

As to the cost, it certainly has enabled the Emigrant to come out to
this country at a much lower rate than he would otherwise have been
able to do, in conHeijuence of the very considerable number of vessels
proceeding to this country in ballast. With regard to (he latter point, the
security of the Emigrant, — in consequence of the numerous wrecks that
took |)h\ce, and the consequent loss of life, atteiitioii was drawn to the very
inferior class of vessels that were charteri'il for the at'cnrnodalion of
Emigrants coming to this country, and the C!i)\ernmeiit has conseciuently
interfered, and have compelled the employment of a better class of
vessels, .since which period wrecks have been far less fre(|iicnt.

Are the precautions at present adopted to secure the employment of a
proper class of vessels for the passage of Emigrants in your opinion
Buflicient, or can you suggest any alteration by which their efficiency
might be increased ?

Isiould suggest that before any Emigrants are allowed to embark in
any vessel, a survey of the same should be held by two or more competent
persons, and a copy of the report of survey lodged with the collector or
chie^' officer of customs at the port, or with the resident Jimigrant agent,
with a sufficient penalty to enforce the observance of the rule.

Can you state what has been the actual number of shijjwreeks of
Emigrant vessels proceeding to this port from the United Kingdom during
the last eight yca's ?

1 have no record of the number of shipwrecks or the extent of loss of
life, in my office, but I will endeavour to procure and furnish you with
the particulars.

Have you liad any opportunity of observing the character of the emigra-
tion to this country conducted by the late Earl of Egremont, as regarded
the provision made for the comfort and health of the Emigrants ?

Yes I have been on board many of the vessels sent out by the late
Earl of Egremont ; the vessels were well found, the Emigrants were
clean and comfortable, well provisioned, and not only Iiad everv
arrangement been made for their comfort during the voyage, but for their

.'.'!]

M^^9R;t

l**

settlement in this province, each body of Kmisrnnts was under thecare
of an ngent, sent out lor tlie |)iir|)oso, who wiia tliari^ed to wmcli over their
comfort iluring their passmge, nnd to iioconipany ilieni to tiic settlement
prepared for them ; iiii I a sum of money was i^r.mt'jd to tiich family to
secure their support for twelve months. Not inoicly wci e the ii rangements
for the passage, l)ettcr tiian in any othef Kntigrant vcjseltt that 1 have
seen, hut the Emigrants were <;;enLrally of a superior cla>*s, and better
selected than any of those who have been sent out at ti\c cxjiense of the
parishes, or who have emigrated at their own cost.

Have the Emigmnts, geneniiiy, wlio are sent out by parishes been
inferior to those who found their own way out '?

Very generally, both morally and physically; the parishes have sent out
persons far two old to gain heir livelihood by work, and often of drunkon
and improvident habits. 'These Emigrants have neither bcnciited them-
selves nor the country, and this is very natural, for, judi;ing fVom the
class sent out, the object contemplated must have been tlie getting rid of
them and not either the benefit of themselves or the colony. An instance
occured very recently which illustrates this subject : a respectable settler
in the eastern townships lately returned from England in u vessel on board
of which there were one hundred and thirty six pauper passengers, sent
out at the expense of their parishes, and out of the whole number he
could only select two that he was desirous of inducing to settle in the
eastern townships; the conduct of the others both male and female, was so
bad that he expressed his wish that they might proceed to the Upper
Province instead of settling in his district : He alluded principally to
gross drunkcness and unchastity.

In the course of your observations upon the mode of emigration of the
poorer classes to this country, have any improvements suggested them.,
selves to your mind ?

I have thought that a general board of emigration should be established
in England, with efficient local agencies. This board should have the
entire charge of the emigration of the poorer classes, as regards especially
the selection of persons and vessels, and indeed every arrangement tion-
nected with the emigrant, until his arrival in this country, where he
should find a branch of the Home Commission, whose duty should be to
make every arrangement for his reception and settlement in one of these
Provinces. By this arrangement the welfare of the emigrant would be
secured, aod the inhabitants of Quebec and Montreal would be relieved
from the constant appeals, to which they are subject, from persons who ar-
rive here and linger about in a state of total destitution.

ilcr thecnre
;li over their
c settlement
■li t'iiinily to
rrangemcnts
that 1 have
, and better
•lerise of the

nrishes been

iwc sent out
I of cirunkun
critcd them-
ing f;om the
uttiiig rid of
An instance
table settler
isel on board
scngcrs, sent
number he
ettle in (he
male, was so
o the Upper
incipally to

ration of the
;ested them.

le established
Id have the
ds especially
;ement con-
ry, where he
hould be to
one of these
:int would be
i be rel:2ved
sons who ar-

Joseph Motrin, Eaquire, M. D.

You were formerly Health Commissioner under the Provincial Act of
1832, establishing a Board of Health, und are now Inspecting IMiybician
of the port of Quebec .'

Yes.

How long have you resided in this country ?

I have been in practice here for these twenty years.

Arc you a member of the Committee of the Emigrant Society ?

I was, but am not so at present, having ceased to be a member on be-
coming Commissioner of the Marine and Emigrant Hospital, in which
capacity one-fourth of the fund raised under the act imposing a tax upon
emigrants, passes through my hands.

What is the; nature of that tax (

It is a capitation lax of five shillings upon all adult emigrants arriviog
in the Province, whether rich or poor.

In what manner is the produce of the tax disposed of ?
One-fourth is received by the Commissioner of the Emigrant Hospital at
Quebec, for the relief all sick emigrants arriving until the opening of the
navigation the year following their arrival ; another fourth is placed at
the disposal of the Quebec Emigrant Society ; another fourth is placed
atthe disposal of the Governors of the Montreal General Hospital for the
benefit of sick emigrants, and the remaining fourth at the disposal of the
Montreal Emigrant Society.

You have hud occasion to observe the condition of the poorer class of
emigrants upon their arrival in this country ?

I have.

Will you be good enough to describe it ?

Since the establishment of the Quarantine at Grosse Isle, thirty miles
from Quebec, in 1832, where all emigrant ships are obliged to stop, I
have had less opportunity, than formerly, of seeing the state in which
emigrants actually arrive. Before that period, I was well acquainted with
it, often from personal inspection. The vessels then came direct to this
port. I am almost at a loss for words to describe the state in which the
emigrants frequently arrived. With a few exceptions the state of the
ships was quite abominable, so much so, that the Harbour Master's boat,
men had no difficulty at the distance of gun-shot, either when the wind
was favorable or in a dead calm, in distinguishing, by the odour alone, a
crowded emigrant ship. I have known as many as from thirty to forty
deaths to have taken place in the course of a voyage, from typhus
fever, on board of a ship containing from 500 to 600 passengers, and
within six weeks after the arrival of some vessels and the landing of the
passengers in Quebec, the hospital has received upwards of 100 patients
at ditierent times from among them. On one occasion I have known
nearly 400 patients at one time in the Emigrant Hospital of Quebec, for
whom there was no sufficient accommodation, and in oider to provide
them with some shelter. Dr. Pamchaud, the then attending physician,
with the aid of other physicians, incurred a personal debt to the Quebec
13ank, to a considerable amount, which, however, was afterwaixls paid by
the Provincial Legislature.

Was the rnortality great amongst the emigrants at that time ?

Yesj considerable, and was attended with most disastrous consequences ;

'. iU

i -I

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IMAGE EVALUATION
TEST TARGET (MT-3)

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Photographic

Sciences

Corporation

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23 WEST MAIN STRECT

WEBSTER, N.Y. U580

(716)872-4503

II.

children being left without protection, and wholly dependent upon the
casual charity of the inhabitants of the city. As to those who were not
sick on arriving, I have to say, that they were generally forcibly lauded
by the masters of the vessels, many without a shilling in their pockets to
obtain a nights lodging, and very few of them with the means of subsist-
ence for more than a very short period. They commonly established
themselves along the wharves, and at the different places, crowding into
any place of shelter they could obtain, where they subsisted principally
upon the charity of the inhabitants. For six weeks at a time from the
commencement of the emigrant ship season, I have known the shores of
the river along Quebec for about a mile and a half crowded with these un*
fortunate people, the places of those who might have moved off being
constantly supplied by fresh arrivals, and there being daily drafts of from
ten to thirty taken to the hospital with infectious disease. The conse.
quence was, it spread among the inhabitants of the city, especially in the
districts in which these unfortunate creatures had established themselves.
Those who were not absolutely without money got into low taverns,
boarding houses and cellars, where they congregated in immense numbers,
where their state was not any better than it had been on board ship.

You are describing a state of things which existed some years ago ?

It existed within my knowledge from 182G to 1632, and probably for
some years previously.

Since 1832, has not a considerable improvement taken place ?

Yes.

To what do you attribute this improvement t

To the Passengers Act, the existence of the fund for the benefit of enu-
grants already alluded to, and the establishment at Grosse Isle, where
all cases of contagious disease are detained, and the emigrants who are
affected with such disease are landed, and subjected to some discipline,
for the purpose of cleanliness, the ship being also cleaned whilst they
remain on shore. Orosse Isle has been made public property, and the
whole establishment there is under the direction of the Executive Govern-
ment. There is a person called the Suttler, with whom a general contract
is made, that he shall have on the Island all such necessaries as may be
required by emigrants on their arrival, at a small fixed advance upon the
current prices at Quebec, and a li.st of the prices is constantly exhibited
in a public place, where all the emigrants may see it, and the suttler is
obliged to take the English money of the emigrants at the Quebec rate of
exchange.

Do jou consider the provision of the Passengers' Act sufticient for their
purpoae ?

Speaking generally I should say they would be, if rigidly enforced.

Do you mean enforced here or in England (

In England. If I may believe what has been repeatedly stated to me
by emigrants and persons who had the best means of information, and
whom I had no reason to disbelieve, there has been much neglect in en-
forcing the stricter provisions of the Act. The Act is evaded in various
ways, especially as respects the quantity and quality of provisions, and
also as to the excess of numbers more than allowed by the Act. I refer
principally to what took place before the last two years, having had no
opportunity of examining the working of the Act during that period.

Had you an opportunity of inspecting the emigrant vessels, sent out by
the late Lord Egremont ?

upon the
) were not
)ly lauded
pockets to
}f subsist-
established
vding into
principally

from the
e shores of
1 these un<

off being
fts of from
rhe conse-
ally in the
hemselves.
w taverns,
le numbers,
)oard ship.
s ago ?
obably for

efit of emi-
Isle, where
:s who arc

discipline,
vhilst they
y, and the
ve Govern-
ral contract

as may be
e upon the
r exhibited
e sutller is
ebec rate of

I had as to some of them, and all of those vessels that I have seen,
arrived in a state of health and cleanliness, far surpassing any other ves.
Bel that I have seen. The emigrants were clean, contented, orderly and in
good spirits, but those emigrants were under the especial charge of an
agent, who watched over them during their voyage, and was bound to
accompany them to the locations which had been previously provided for
them. Out of the many vessels despatched by his Lordship, I have heard
but of one case of ilinesss occurring in them, and even of that I am not
certain. This emigration in all its arrangements seemed to roe, as far as I
could observe them, quite unobjectionable.

You could hardly wish for better arrangement in any case ?

I should be at a loss to suggest any thing better.

Are you aware that these emigrants were sent out at Lord Egremont's
expense, and that he was able, consequently, to adopt a system with
proper discipline ?

Yes, I have understood so.

-i

3 '>i

V-^-' I

'1
h"."J

nt for their
iforced.

ated to me
lation, and
;lect in en-
1 in various
isions, and
ct. I refer
ng had no
eriod.
sent out by

i: i

I .f:

Quebec^ 4th August, 1838.
Charles Poole, Esqr. M. D.

You are inspecting Physician at the Quarantine Station of Grosse
Isle ?

Yes, and have been attached to that station for the last six years.

What are your duties as respects emigration i

First, the inspection of all people arriving in the River St. Lawrence,
and the examination of all passengers fur the detection of disease ;
Secondly, taking measures for disinfecting vessels and sending to the
Hospital all persons laboring under, or, threatened with any disease
considered contagious.

Do you attend upon the patients in Hospital ?

Not at present, but I did so in the years 1833 and 1834, when I was
Medical Superintendent of the Hospital.

Can you give any statement of the number of Emigrants who arrived
during those years and how they were disposed of ?

I have prepared such a statement and beg leave to put it in.

GROSSE ISLE.

Table of the number of Emigrants arrived, admitted to Hospital,
discharged and died during the last six years up to this date, 7th Septem-
ber, 1838, also number of deaths during the passage, 183G, 1837, and
1838.

No. of

Deaths

Admis-

Dischar

Deaths

Emi-

on the

sions.

ged.

grants

Pas-

Remarks.

Arrived
22,062

i^Sfi

1833

239

212

1834

844

1 580

2G4

30,960

Cholera year.

1835

12G

IIG

11,580

Typhus fe»cr generated on
ship board has been so highly

1836

454

39G

28,950

205

contagiousamong theEmigrants
landed hcrr, that four Medical
Ofliccrshave been attacked, of

1837

597

540

22,225

237

whom one died, and twenty
three HospitalStrvantSjof whom

1838

4,992

fi?e died in the last fi»e years
•It this station.

to 7 Sept.

Total.

■» »■

It, 1838.

of Grosse

ears.

Lawrence,
f disease ;
ing to the
ly disease

lien I was
Iio arrived

Hospital,
li Scptem-
1837, and

<s.

enerated on
II so highly
he Emigrants
four Medical
attacked, of
and twenty*
»nts,of whom
t fue years

You have read the evidence given before this commission by iMr.
Buchanan, Dr. Morin, Dr. Skey, and Mr. Jessopp ?

I have ; and I concur generally in tlie view of the subject taken by
Mr. Jessopp, Dr. Morrin, and Dr. Skey : but as all Eniiyrants v.ilhout
exception necessarily come under my inspection niter the V()\ .»l;c, I may
perhaps be able to add some information to that whicli has been fur-
nished by them.

Your personal experience relates to the period (luring which tiie
Emigrant tax has been levied, and the amended pasjciigcrs act of the
Imperial Parliament has been in operation '

It does — Speaking of the operation of present arrangements, we bad
last year upwards of 22,000 Emigrants. The poorer vUx^s of Irish and
Eiiglish paupers sent by parishes, were, on the arrival of the vessels, in
many instances, entirely without provisions ; so much c-o that it was
necessary to supply them immediately with food from shore, and some
of these ships had already received Ibod and water from otiicr vessels with
which they had fallen in : other vessels with the same class of Emigrants
were not entirely destitute, but had su(ierccl much privation from having
been placed on short allowance. This desfilution or shortness of provi-
sion, combined with dirt and bad ventilation, had invariably produced
fevers of a contagious character, and occasioned deaths on the passage ;
and from such vessels, numbers varying from twenty to ninety each
vessel, have been adn.itted to Hospital with contagious fever immediately
on their arrival. I attribute the whole evil to defective arrangements.
For example, parish emigrants from England receive rations of biscuit
and beef or pork often of bad quality (of this I am aware from personal
inspection) they are incapable from sea sickness of using this solid
food at the beginning of the passage, when, for want oftmall stores, such
as tea, sugar, coffee, oatmeal and Hour, they fall into a s»ate of debility
and low spirits, by which they are incapacitated fitm the exertions
required for cleanliness and exercise, and also indisposed for solid food ;
more particularly the women and children, and on their arrival here, I
find many cases of Typhus fever among them Very few of these vessels
have on board a sufficient quantity of water ; the casks being insulKcient
in number, and very many of them old oak casks made up with pine heads,
which therefore leak if they do not fall to pieces, which olten happens.

Does this take place from Ports where there is an Agent for Emi-
grants ?

I have had many similar cases from Liverpool, and would mention two,
of the " Ceres" and " Kingston," which arrived at Grosse Isle on the
same day from Liverpool, in July 1836, of which the circumstances were
so bad as to induce me to report them to the Civil Secretary, by whom I
was informed that the Report was forwarded to Her Majesty's Principal
Secretary of State for the Colonial Department. Those two ships leit Liver-
pool about the same time ; the one having 140 passengers, the other up-
wards of 340. The captains respectively by name and
called the attention of the Agent for Emigrants at Liverpool to the water
casks prepared for the use of the Emigrants, pointing out that ihey were
what is called •' leaguers," that is very large casks made up of smaller
old casks, and with pine heads, requesting that they might be tilled before
embarkation, to prove their q^ualiiy. — This was refused by the Agent, aud.

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the casks were taken on board without proof. The loss of water by leak*
ugc in the Ceres was computed during the first three days at 800 gallons,
and the Kingston nearly as much. On the arrival of these vessels at
Grosse Isle, although the liUiigrants had been on short allowance of water,
the Ceres had enough for no more than half a day, and the Kingston was
quite without water. The passengers in both ships had sufl'cred very
much from want of water. The teniporary berths also on board both of
these ships were so badly constructed that they came to pieces with the
hrst heavy sea, causing the deaths of tnu children and severely injuring
many others. The medicine clicsts on board these vessels, as is too fre-
quently the case, were not more than 18 inches square, or suthcicnt for
more than 25 passengers. — Of castor oil one had only three pints, and of
Fpsom salts only •! lb. Had these vessels been properly inspected nothing
of the kind could have occurred.

liut these were peculiar cases and perhaps unique ?
On the contrary, I but too frequently meet with similar cases, more or
less aggravated. I also wish to mention, as loudly calling for a rrincdy,
a system of extortion carried on by masters of vessels, tliiclly from Ire-
land, whence come the bulk of our emigrants. The captain tells emigrants
tlie passaj^e will be made in three weeks or a month, and that they need
not lay in provisions for any longer period, well knowing that the average
passage is six weeks and often extends tu eight and nine. When the emi-
grants' stores are exhaused, the captain who has laid in a lUock for the
purpose, obliges them to pay ofiLMi as much as four hundred per cent, on
the cost price, (or the means of .subsistence, and thus r{>lis th<' poor emi-
grant of his last shilling — Such cases are of frequent oceurrenue, even
down to last year.

When complaints as to the slate of Canada emigrant sliips have been
marie in England, the answer has commonly been an admission of great
defects formerly, with a statement that at present the arrangements are
very diU'erent, and no longer cbjectionablct Does your description apply
to the ])ast or the present ?

Down to last year. This year there have been so few emigrants, that
there has been little to observe upon, though even this year.in some cases,
provisions and water have been deficient in quantity, and some vessels
have arrived with small pox, the origin of which was traced to individuals
who embarked with the disease upon them. A proper medical inspection
would have prevented this evil. The medical superintendence on board
vessels obliged by the i^assengers' Act to carry a surgeon is also very
defective. The majority of such persons, called surgeons, are unlicens-
ed students and apprentices, or apothecaries shop-men, without sutKcient
medical knowledge to be of any bervice to the emigrants, either for the pre-
servation of health or cure of disease.On boardship a knowledge of the means
of preventing disease in such a situation is the first requisite in a medical
man, and in this the medical superintendents are lamentably deficient.
It is not much better as to the cure of diseases. I boarded a ship last
year of which the captain and the passengers who had met with accidents,
had their limbs bandaged for supposed fractures, which upon examina-
tion.. I found were only simple strains or bruLses. On examining the
captain's arm, I said that there had been no fracture : the surgeon, so

er by leak-
00 gallons,
vessels at
;c of water,
ngston was
Hered very
irtl both of
•s with the
ly injuring
} is too fre-
ufHcicnt for
nts, and of
ted nothing

es, more or
a roniedy,
ly (Vol II Iri'-
B cniijrraiits
it 1 1 ley need
the average

en the ciui-
ock for the
»tr cent, on
<' poor euii-
encc, even

i liave been
on of great
(Yemenis are
ijilion iipply

grants, that
some cases,
OMK! vessels
i individuals
1 iiispertion
:e on board
s also very
c uniicens-
ut sutficient
1 for the pre-
of the means
n a medical
y deficient,
a ship last
I accidents,
n cxaniina-
imining the
surgeon, so

called, replied. "I asureyonthc libia andjibula arc both broken." ll
h.ippens that the tibia and Jihuta are bones of the leg. This is an extreme
case apparently, but is not an unfair illustration of the ignorance and
presumption of the class of men appointed to comply with that part ot
the Act which is intended to provide fur the medical care of einit;rnntk
during the passage.

Have you any other remarks to make on ciistin*; arrangements ?

I wish to say that the reports made to me by the class of ceplains and
surfi^on superintendents now bringing passengers, are seldom to be
relied upon ; in ilUntration I beg leave to mention a case that occurred
last year. It was a vessel with about 150 passengers on board, from an
Irish' port. The captain and surgeon assured me that they had no case
of sickness on board, and the surgeon prodnced a list which he hud
signed, of certain slight ailments, such as bowel complaints and catarrhs,
which had occurred during the passage, and which appeared on the li>t
with the remark " cured," to all of Ihcm. On making my usual per-
sonal inspection of each emigrant. I found, and sent to Hospital upward*
of 40 cases of Typhus fever, of which <J were below in bed. These nine
they had not been able to get out of bed ; many of the others were placed
against the bulwarks to make a show of being in health, with pieces «>(
bread and hot potatoes in their hands.

What is the captain's interest in such deception i'

To prevent detention of the ship in quarantine.

And the Surgeon's ?

One can hardly say, but that they are probaby influenced by the Cap-
tains. Nevertheless, as there are many most respectable captains in the
lumber trade, a proper selection of vessels by the Emigrant Agents at home
would prevent this abuse.

Is that all ?

No ; that part of the law which regulates the height between decks ol
emigrant ships, is frequently evaded in the smaller class of vessels by
means of a false deck some distance below the beams, bringing the pas-
sengers nearly in contact with the damp ballast and pressing them into the
narrow part of the ship, and the beams taking an important part of the
nwm allotted to them by law.

Is it possible that such fittings should escape observation in the port of
departure ?

Quite impossible, if that part of the vessel intended for emigrants be
visited.

.\re such cases common ?

In many of the smaller class of vessels from Ireland, Yarmouth, Lynn,
Ipswich, &c., bringing parish emigrants.

Is there any peculiar superintendence on board for parish emigrants f

Not that I am aware of; and I should say that there is none, because
they are generally at ihe mercy of the captain or mate who serve out
the provisions, and who frequently put emigrants on short allowonce soon
alter their departure. Complaints of short weight and quantity in the pro-
visions are frequently made.

Have you brought these facts to the knowledge of government ?

2 A

K<j' '1

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These or similar circumstances have been mentioned by me in my an-
nual reports for the years 1833, 1834 and 1836.

Was there any perceptible improvement in 1837 ?

But little in the arrangements at home, but the alteration of the Quu>
rantine Regulations here, giving me a discretionary power to permit emi-
grants arriving clean and healthy to proceed to Quebec without deten-
tion or landing on the Island, has induced the masters of vessels to pay
more attention to the health and cleanliness of the passengers, in the hope
of avoiding the detention which used to be required iu all cases. It ope-
rates as a premium to care and attention on the part of the captain, and
has had a salutary eflect on the comfort of the emigrants. It has also obvi-
ated the great former inconvenience to the merchants of Quebec, of hav«
ing their vessels detained when clean and healthy. This, therefore, is a
considerable improvement ; but the state of the vessels generally for the
year 1837, was nevertheless far from what it might be, with a good sys-
tem of inspection and arrangement at home. For instance, 597 cases of
typhus and small pox were sent to Hospital, the greater part of which, as
I have said before, were owing to bad arrangements. I also wish to re.
mark in corroboration of Mr. Jessopp's statement, that down to the pre-
sent time, the lists and description ol emigrants required by the Imperial
Act to be certified by the Customs officer at the port of departure are sel'
dom correct, either as to name, description, or number of passengers, so
much so that it is difficult for me to find out whether any deficiency of
number has been occasioned by death or otherwise. These falsifications
are, first, for the purpose of evading the emigrant tax which is levied in
proportion to age ; and the common fraud is to understate the age ; and,
secondly, for the sake of carrying more passengers than the law allows, by
counting grown persons as children, of which last the law allows a larger
proportion to tonnage than of grown persons.

Is this fraud general ?

Yes very common, of frequent occurence, and it arrises manifestly
from want of inspection at home.

Have you had any means of learning the degree of inspectiou that
takes place at home i

If there is not one passenger to every 6 tons no inspection takes place,
and captains have in many instances told me that the agents only mus-
tered the passengers on deck, — enquired into the quantity of provisions,
and in some cases required them to be produced, when occasionally the
same bag of bread or other provisions was shown as belonging to several
persons m successiun. This the captain discovered afler sailing. The
mere mustering of the passengers on deck, without going below where
the provisions were kept, is really no inspection at all : and it frequently
happens that passengers are smuggled on board without any provisions.
There is another evil which might be readily obviated by a proper selec-
tion of vessels at home; that of employing as emigrant ships, vessels
that are scarcely sea.worthy, and which consequently being unable to
carry sail, make very lone passages. As the tonnage of the best class
of vessels coming to Canada is more than sufficient to bring all the emi-
grants in any year, the employment of these bad ships ought not to be
pt^rmittcd.

Have any remedies for existing evils occurred to you i
I can oniy agree with Mr. Jessopp and others with respect to a special
board of emigration at homei having no other occupation than that of
superintending the selection and passage of emigrants, witli responsible
agents at the various ports of departure, who should be obliged to in"
Bpect all vessels btinging passengers, whether Ihey have few or many on
lx>ard, for according to Hie Emigrant Act, a large ressel may brinr out
100 passengers, and no inspection is required or made. Were the clause
No. XX, oflhe Passengers' Act left out, and the Act otherwise enforced
at home, the state of emigrants on shipboard would be much ameliorat-
ed. The present 8\-slem at Orosse Isle works well and easily accom-
plishes its object of preventing the introduction of contagious diseases
into the Province, without unnecessary detention of the vessels. With
respect to the care of emigrants after their arrival at Quebec, I offer no
opinion-

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Kevd, Edmund Willoughby Sewtll.

Minister of the Chapel of Holy Trinity in Quebec, and a Member ot the
Corporation for managing the Clergy reserves.

When was the corporation for managing the clergy reserves originally
created ?

I believe in about the year 1818, but I have not the letters patent to
refer to at present.

What are the general duties of that corporation f

To lease the lands reserved for the support of the protestunt clergy,
to collect the rents, and generally to perform all the duties annexed tu
the management of land.

Of what do the clergy reserves in this province consist ?

They consist of one seventh of the conceded lands of the province,
exclusive of the seigniories.

It has been suggested to the commissioners that, under the terniii
of the Act 31st George 3rd. generally known as the Constitutional Act,
under which these reserves were authorized, the clergy reserves ought Id
be equal to one seventh of the land grunted, and therefore one eighth of
the whole land, comprised, for instance, in a township, instead of one
seventh of the whole land comprised in such township, as appears to have
been the practice. Will you therefore be kind enough to state what
opinion you have formed on the subject ?

I am of opinion that is to be one seventh of every township.

The words of Ihe Act are that "Whenever any grant of land shall be
" made, there shall at the same time be made, in respect ot the same,
" a proportionate allotment and appropriation of lands, for the support
" of a protestant clergy, within the township or parish to which the lands
" granted shall appertain, and that the lands so allotted and appropriated
•' shall be equal in value to the seventh of the land so granted," supposing
that for instance seven eighths of a township should have been granted
would not the remaining eighth (supposing the land to be of equal value;
be equal to a reserve of one seventh of such grant?

I should say so. But I conceive that the intention of the framers cf
the Act was to grant one entire seventh of each township to the
clergy.

The practice I believe has been to appropriate one seventh of the
whole township as a clergy reserve ?

I understand so.

A considerable portion of the lands reserved for the clerjify lias been
sold under the authority of an Act of the Imperial Pailiamenl, what bus
been the character of the sales thus made ?

A great deal of the property has been sacrificed, particularly in the
case of the lands that were imder lease at \\w time.

The value of the property under the management of the corporation
then has besn materially diminished by these sales?

Yes certuihly.

Can you judge to what extent ?

1 cannot state positively, but I find by a memorial addressed by the
corporation to Lord Goderich in 1832, that in the case of twenty-five
selected lots, the average price at which they were sold by theCominis-

»7

BJoner of Crown Landt amounted to (is. lid. per acir. while tlicit
CMlimatcd avcrnjie voluc was 18». Od. per acre. Tlic»e however were
probably Helectedas llio must striking instance*, and may not i'urm a l.iii
example of the whole.

These sales were mudo I presume on the authority ot'llic Commiitiionti
of Crowo Luad»— had the corporation no power to interfere in ihi>
matter ?

They could oidy romonUrate ; nnd they made tcvcrol rcmonslrancev,
but without cft'ect.

Ho that in fact the properly desig^ned for the support of the cicri:)
would appear to have been squandered nway ?
Undoultlcdly.

Arc you aware Ihnt great complaints have been made as to tlic iii.
jurious effect of clergy rcaerves in inipedinp^ the settlement and improve-
iiicnt of the province, by interposing^ tracts of wild land in the miiUt ot
the settled districts (

1 urn aware that such has been the case ; but I do not think, ilidt such
complninl'i are well founded to the extent represented. 1 think t!iey
liiive sprung more from n det^irc to injure the church than from the ev:l
produced by the reserves ; and I think that if the corporation hud not
liceu cl.eckcd in their iniasnres for Icnsinp; those reserves, the evil, ««^h
ii<< it is, would not have been so great a^ it is represented to be.

Uut as these complaints exist, mi<;ht it not be more advuntiit;eotis lor
the clergy, tliat instead of a reserve of land, they should be eiititletl to .i
porli>in of the future sales of crown land, equal to the proportion of land
It) which they uro entitled f

1 do not consider that such an alteration iu the present system would
be lor the advantage of the church, but I must be understood in this
case as only expressing an individual opinion.

of the

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Augu$tin Nahert Morin, Eiqr.

Advocate and Member of the late Legislative Aiierobly of Lower

Canada.

You have had occasion to pav a good deal of attention to the subject
of grants of InniU to militiamen f

Yes, at different times Militiamen have applied to me for advice.
I have also been eight years a member of the Assembly, and have
generally been upon committees connected with the Land Department la
general, and also, committees on militia lands.

Will yo\i be so good as to inform us what has been the nature of the
proceedmg with regard to these grants ?

Some time after the late war with the United States of Amrrica, (ret
grants of land were promised by the provincial authorities, in the name
of the Prince Regent, to disbanded soldier.s and militiamen. The allow.
ance was to be one hundred acres for each private, two hundred for non-
commissioned officers, three hundred for ensigns, five hundred fur
lieutenants, eight hundred for captains, and I believe, 1,200 for superior
officers. There had been six embodied battalions of militia, levied belbre,
and during the war, those six battalions were called embodied militia,
several corps of the sedentary militin, by which were designated all tha
|>opulation able to bear arms, were also put in requisition and organized, and
were marched to the frontier, and served lor more or less time. Several
oilicers and militiamen of this last class, are aUo to be found among the
applicants for land, and in fact, their case was foreseen in an Act of tha
Provincial Parliament.

To what Act do you allude f

It was an Act passed in the year 1810, granting £3,000 currency to
give effect to the Royal Instructions, for the granting of land to mi'i-
tiamen and disbanded troops, who had served honorably during the late
war, and to such others, as might be within the meaning and intent of
the said instructions. It was understood that this sum would be Euflicient
for the surveys of the lands. A number of wild townships were in
consequence, set apart and surveyed in the ordinary method, t. e. from a
uniform diagram prepared beforehand, and without any attention to the
physical topography, or to the means of access, or to the capabilities of
each portion of land. These townships were not contiguous, it being
probably thought better to have them in seperate sections, but neither
were they contiguous to other settlements ; they were remote and
unknown places. This must have caused irregularities in the surveys.
In addition to this there were two-sevenths reserved for the crown aud
the protestant clergy, which were intermixed as elsewhere with the rest
of the lots, but not improved, and which added to the toils and difticulties
of the neighbouring settlers.

Were these the onlv impediments to the settlement of the lands
by the militia grantees ';

The management of public lands having always been centralized
in Quebec, in ollicers not sufficiently connected, or acquainted
with the country, and last of all, with regard to tlie poorer
class, to which the militia men belonged, those of the mihtia men who
Ivnew of the Royal intentions were under the necessity of employing
interoaediate agents, many of whom soon turned speculators in militia
rlftims, for very inadequate consideration. This kind of trade revived

every lime, when, from the proceedings of Government, it was luppoied,
that the claims would he speedily settled. Some of the speculators went
into nil parts of the country, searching out militiamen. Several may
have acted honestly and given a reusonnblc consideration for the
assignment which they obtained, of the militiaman's claims. I know
that many did not. Some obtained powers of attorney from the claim-
ants, to act as their agents. Among the latter some have acted and »till
act bona fide, really pursuing the advantage of their clients ; others acted
for themselves ; appearing to act under the powers of attorney but
possessing at the same time .secret assignments of the land to themselves.
The e|>och at wliirh these jobbing transactions, took place were mostly at
the beginning, and then from 1828, to Irt30. in consequence of the
favorable answer of Sir James Kempt, to an adJres of the Assembly, on
behalf of inilitiu men, whose claims had not been settled, and lastly under
I^ord Goslbrd, in consccpience of his answer, and the dispalcli which gave
further time, for applications and promised some other advantages.

So that in proportion as the Government appeared disposed to favor
the inililia men, the system under which they were deprived ofth*
advantages intended for them, took greater effect i

Yes, and 1 allude particularly to the last occasion in tht year 1836,
when the intentions of Government were announced afresh. In fact at
Ibis time, tliere are many individual speculators, each of whom represent
militia daims to the amount of several thousand acres ; some may
have obtained patents; others have only location tickets; and
others are still pressing the claims which they have purchased.
Several officers who had more knowledge, and were better able
to pursue their claims, have obtained their lands or their location
tickets, for 1 must admit that numbers of militiamen must have
been negligent. I think however they were discouraged by the
difficulties and defects of the sy.slcin. Those officers however have not
"encrally improved their lands, but owing to the same ditlicultics, left
\\wm in their natural state or sold them to individuals, or companies For
to any one acquainted with the means of clearing, and improving remote
wild lands, in Canada, it must be evident, that few persons even of the
condition uf militia officers could turn to any profitable account, land so
remote from settlement ; far less could the militia men. There were also
some fees required in the public offices, and princially for the patents.
The militiamen were too poor to pay them, or objected to them, saying
that thev had a right to a fret grant. "Where the patents issued in many
cases thev included a large number of lots, which no doubt occasioned
delays and might necessitate legal transactions between persons utterly
unknown to each other.

In what manner did militiamen, select their lands ?
They obtained from the Surveyor General a certificate of vacancy of
a half lot which contained one hundred acres, and upon that, and their
certificates of services, they obtained location tickets. 1 have knowa
instances where after a time the land included in location tickets not
having been granted by patent for some cause or other, the lots so
selected were given to the other militiamen. The location ticket con-
tained a promise of a grant and permission to occujiy. The locatees
were to obtain their patents after three years, on condition that they would
ly themselves or others reside in the place, build a house, and clear four
acres of laud > being the same terms upon which location tickets were

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100

granted generally. In most of the cases the militiamen were unable to
comply with the conditions, and in many could not even find their laud ;
in many cases the conditions were not really fulfilled, but only colourably
to obtain the patent. They built a mere shed and slept there for a few
nights, and then swore that they had resided on the land. In fact it was
impossible for a family, to reside at such a distance from other
human beings, in such wild places as were selected for militia grants.
Besides all the difficulties to which the Militiamen were exposed, there
was much, and harrassing delay in the public offices, through which it
was necessary to pass the patent. The poor people were obliged to be
in direct communication with the public offices, as the professional men
in general did not find it worth while to take up their cases, except as
I have mentioned before, for their own benefit. There arc tuwii>jhip
agents in some parts, but I do not know that they have greatly advanced
the settlement of Militiamen.

Was this system of jobbing in Militia claims carried on secretly or
publicly ?
Publicly.

What, quite without regard to decency ?

In some cases as I have explained sham powers of attorney were given,
<^nd the real assignment was kept secret, this secrecy might be consider-
ed as a regard to decency. But except in this respect, the whole matter
was as public as possible.

Was it so public as to be known, do you think, to the officers of go-
vernment ?

I think so, but no efficient remedy could have been applied, without
some very important changes in the whole administration of the lands,
which was not less defective, in respect to others than in respect to
militia claims.

What has generally become of the land for which militia location tickets
were given, but the titles to which has not been confirmed by patent ?

A great partis still in abeyance ; some lots ".e occupied by the ownsrs,
under the location tickets, others have been improved according to the
conditions, either within or after the time prescribed. The location
tickets were by many considered as a sufficient title, and passed as such
in the market, at the same time, some portions of the grants have been
resumed by the crown, in consequence of the conditions of settlement
not having been performed within the time prescribed.

But has not the time prescribed for making original applications for
such grants been frequently enlarged ?
Yes, twice.

It may have happened, therefore, that a person who postponed his
original application, beyond the time fixed for the performance of con-
ditions as to the early grants, would be in better condition than an early
applicant ?

That may easily have been the case. The matter stands thus. The
time for application was long elapsed, when after repeated demands, Sir
James Kempt enlarged it to the 1st August, 1830. During that period
no doubt, there were many new location tickets granted. The time elaps-
ed again, and Lord Gosford, by his answer, which was arterwaids con-
firmed by a dispatch from the home government, without enlarging the
time to those who had not applied under Sir James Kempt, gave greater

101

The

Sir

facilities to those who had, by relieving them froin the performance of
the conditions ; so that it may have happened as I have said before, that
those who been most neglectful of their claims may be better oiT than
those who had urged their claims at first.

How has it happened that the lands of Militiamen have been resumed
for non-performance of conditions, while in general there has been no re«
sumption of any Crown land for this ?

I cannot say, lean only refer to the evidence of the late Commissioner
of Crown lands, Mr. Felton, given before a Committee of the House of
Assembly in 1835, on this subject.

You are referring now to that part of Mr. Felton's evidence, wherein
he says, that of such lands above 3,000 acres were sold to Messrs,
Thomas, i*eoples & Fleming, at 2s. Gd. per acre, Mr. Thomas having
been agent for the township, and the person at whose instance the lands
had been resumed i

I am, and I sec in the same evidence that the sale to Messrs. Thomas,
Peoples & Fleming was made upon a special order of the Governor, upon
their application, and at the price of 2s. Gd. per acre, being half of the
ordinary upset price of lands in the townships. Besides the townships
specifically appropriated for the Militiamen, some of them had been
allowed to exchange their grants, and had tickets of location of land in
several other townships, where land was resumed. Mr. Felton says that
in these townships, there was no distinction made as to Militiamen.
My opinion is, that some lands which had been located to Militiamen,
were also resumed in Aston and granted to others.

Have any conflicting claims us to lands arisen from such resumption
and re-grants or sales ?

Yes to my knowledge they have arisen in the township of Aston, and I
know also that there are such conflicting claims, to a great extent
in Slansfold, and Bulstrode, where Militiamen have been located, but I ,
do not know whether they have arisen in the precise cases of Mililiatucn.

What was the precise character of the additional facilities given by
the answer of Lord Gosford, and the dispatch to which you have alluded ?

The Militiamen were divided into three classes — 1st. Those who had
obtained their tickets previous to 1830. 2d. Those who had petitioned
before that time. 3d. Claims made subsequent to 1830, or not then
made ; to this last class no relief was given, nor any promise ; the two
others were relieved from the condition of settlement. A Commission
was named to enquire into the nature of the different claims, Mr. Lange'
vin, ils Secretary, worked zealously and perseveringly in the matter, but
I do not know that the head of the Executive was ever called to pro-
nounce upon the claims. Mr. Langevin collected the papers which were
dispersed in different public offices, selected and classed them, much
statistical information on this subject might no doubt be obtained from
him ; since that time many poor Militiamen, who had never applied, have
come forward, but uselessly. This last answer of government gave a
system to the trade of Militia Claims, and fixed a price. The 1st class of
Lord Gosford obtained from £7 to £10 : for their location tickets, the
2nd cias» from 35s. to 50s. , the 3d class were considered a bad job^ and
were given foe almost nothing.

Has any thing been done to relieve these Militiamen whose grants have
been resumed ?

2 C

■ffl

102

\fi .*

I do not know whether any of them have claimed on that account, I
suppose that under the terms of the dispatch, they would be entitled to
relief.

Have you any idea what proportion of the Militia Claims have been
purchased by the speculators to whom you have referred ?

I cannot form any precise idea, but my impression is, that it must
amount to three-fourths of the whole.

The system then which you have described as having been pursued in
respect to these claims must have tended to defeat the object of govern-
ment in making grants to Militiamen, if that object had been the settle-
ment of the province ?

Yes.

And equally so if that object had been the permanent benefit of the
Militiamen themselves ?

Undoubtedly so.

In addition to your evidence, can you refer to any public documents
which contain further details upon the subject ?

Yes — 1st. The report made to the Assembly on the 10th February.
1834, by a Committee, of which Mr. Kimber was chairman, and which
was adopted by the House. 2nd. An address to Lord Aylmer, of the
24th February, 1834. 3d. The answer to this address of the 24th Fe-
bruary, 1834. 4th. A report made to the House by messengers, on the
11th November, 1835, of the answer of Lord Gosford, to an address
of the 6th of the same month. 5th. A Report of a Committee of the
House, presented on the 2d January, 1836. 6th. An Address to the
Assembly of the 26th February, 1836, and then 7th the answer of the 5th
March, 1836, and to which I have referred, and which was followed by
the dispatch from Lord Glenelg. There are also the minutes of evidence
of the Special Committee of 1835 and 1836, which are to be found, dated
2d January, at the end of the 3rd Volume of the Appendix to the 45th
Volume of the Journals of the House.

103

iccount, I
intitled to

have beea

ckt it roust

pursued in
of govern-
Ihe settle*

;fit of the

documents

February,
ind which
er, of the

24th Fe.
;rs, on the
n address
tee of the
ess to the
of the 5th
jllowed by
ff evidence
find, dated

the 45th

Mr. John Langnin.

YoQ were I believe, Secretary to the Board appointed to investigate
the militia claims for grants of land ?
Yes.

By whom was that board appointed ?

By Lord Gosford, in February, 1837.

Upon what were those militia claims founded?

Upon a proclamation by the Earl of Dalhousie, dated November 2nd
1822, offering land to the six battalions of select and embodied militia,
who served in the late war with the United Stales of America, and to
such as marched to the frontier, upon a certain scale from 1 ,200 acres
to Lieut. Colonels, to 100 each to the privates.

Was this proclamation issued by the authority of the Home Govern-
ment, or on the sole responsibility of the Governor ?

I believe, for I have no means of knowing it officially, that it was
directed by a dispatch from the Colonial Office to the Duke of Richmond,
about the year 1818, which dispatch does not however appear to have
been recorded, and to which therefore I am unable to refer.

Within what period were the applications originally to have been
made ?

By the 1st June 1823.

How often has that time been enlarged 1

It was first enlarged to the 1 st of May 1824, after thai to the 1st of
August 1830, and then by instructions received from the Colonial Office,
all persons who had made their claims before the last mentioned time
were to be put upon the same footing as they would have occupied at that
date without any advantage being taken of their non fulfilment of
conditions.

By whom were the applications for grants under this proclamation
originally dicided upon ?

They were referred to the Executive Council, or to the Auxiliary Land
Board, which consisted of the following public officers, viz : — Clerk of
the Council as chairman, Secretary of the Province, Auditor of Land
Patents, and Surveyor General, who reported upon each case, and upon
their report the Governor decided.

How much land had been actually granted to applicants before the
appointment of your board ?

I have not the means of giving an accurate answer to this question,
but the Secretary of the Province or the Commissioner of Crown Lands
may be able to furnish you with the numberi

Do you know on what conditions these grants were made ?

The person obtaining a location ticket was bound to settle on the
land and remain there for a period of three years, and within that time
to erect a dwelling house, and clear and cultivate four acres of land.

Have any of such grants been resumed for breach of condition ?

Yes, but in most cases only when the land was applied for, to be put
up to sale by some party who was desirous of obtaining it, and perhaps
occasionaly when a free grant of the same land was applied for ; but I
can not ascertain how many of these cases there were. The Surveyor
General will, however, be able to furnish the information. I wish, how-
ever, to obseive, that these conditions in effect destroyed the value of the

if.

'.t^fl

e^,

If Mi

if <

If :

104

grant. An emigrant arriving from England was enabled to obtain a
grant of 200 acres upon precisely similar conditions, as the 100 could be
obtained by the militia, consequently it was regarded as of no value, and
in many cases nothing was done to improve it.

What was the last regulation on the subject of these claims ?

The notice of the 22nd of February, 1837, to which I have referred,
as placing all parties who had made their claims before August, 1830, upon
the same footing as at the time of making their claims.

What is the number of claimants under this notice who have applied to
your board.

Of the six battalions of embodied militia, 2,095 has been ascertained
to have made timely application. Of all battalions and corps, including
the above, 4,793. The number of those who, though not falling within
the notice, have nevertheless claimed, is about 1,669. These are in addi<
tion to the cases upon which the government have decided, upon the re.
presentations of the board,

What amount of land would be required to satisfy the whole of the
claims thus made 1

About 81 1 ,000 acres.

Have the Board come to a decision upon any of the claims, and what
has been the nature of their decisions P

The Hoard first proceeded to the investigation of cases under location
tickets, and have gone through about 700 of them, upon all of which tliey
have reported. Out of these 700, about 300 have been referred for
patent, viz : their claims have been admitted by the Governor, and the
remaining cases are in progress. Some of these cases have been laid
aside until the principle upon which the decision should be grounded was
settled by the government. The Board have also partially investigated
a number of claims not under the location tickets, and have reported
favorably upon most of them.

Then the great majority of the claims are as vet undecided ?

Yes.

Was there not some distinction intended to be made, by the pro-
clamation of the 2nd of February 1822, between the different classes of
militia ?

The words of that proclamation contain the distinction.

Has any such distinction been observed in practice ?

It appears to have been followed for a period ; after which a different
course was in some instances followed by Lord Dalhousie, the then
Governor.

What was the nature of that difierence ?

It rejected the claims of some of the corps who had marched to the
frontier.

Upon what ground ?

The following are his words under the date of the 29th of March 1824,
" I feel myself under the painful duty to put a negative upon such
" claims as this, of the sedentry militia having for a short time marched
" to the frontier. I consider the battalions of incorporated militia alone
" entitled to grants of land and must confine it to that class."

The Executive Council, then, had admitted to the benefit of the
proclamation every person who had ever been to the frontier ?

Yes, and even ailer the minute of Lord Dalhousie, they appear to have

105

to obtain a
10 could be
> value, and

'e referred,

,1830, upon

B applied to

ascertained
s, including
lling within
are in addi-
pon the re.

hole of tb«

, and what

der location
f which they
1 referred for
or, and the
ive been laid
rounded was
investigated
kve reported

)y the pro-
nt classes of

a different
the then

rched to the

acted for some time upon precisely the aame principles, and the dicision was
sanctioned by Sir F. Burton, the Lieut. Governor of the Province during
the temporary absence of Lord Dalhonsie. At a later period however, in
1830, they also altered their opinion, and adopted with some exceptions,
a rule somewhat similar to that laid down by Lord Dalhousic.

Have you any idea what number of the applicants would be likely to
settle upon any land granted to them ?

This would depend upon circumstances.

Do you imagine that half of them would ?

Under very favorable circumstances one half might be expected, not
the individuals themselves, many of whom are dead, and the rest old, hut
some members of their families.

Then the remainder would look forward to making a protit by Sic
sale of their grant ?

I should imagine so.

Is it not understood that the title to militia grants have in many cases
been sold already.

There are no certain means of ascertaining, but I dare say tliero are a
good many.

Can you form any opinion as to the proportion so sold :'

No.

I' '

i i

>: '

larch 1824,
upon such

ne marched
idilia alone

nefit of the

ear to have

2 D

; '

I '■ !l

f: I

1 vr.
(

106

» I

u
a>

E
w

REMARKS.

Total namber
of acres
granted.

No. of acres

granted not

coming within

any of previous

descriptions.

en rf rf Tl< CO <M O O O . ■* .
ot-(M»>.eoQOt^oQ.-73oors.. «

00 (M C>i « O <N SP 0» O 5^ « "v - -

n
2

Number of

acres granted to

Squatters.

Number of

acres granted

to Militia

Claimants.

OOOOOQ>00«00QTfO .
QOCOO;OeO'M'^Tj< — oiUSOi— '►y

-"-geoi^t^ec — 050«0(Neo '^

ifS CO CO — H

217840

fRetorn <

No. of acres
granted to dis-
charged Sol.
diers & Pen-
sioners.

22 • eCOOOTfrfoO
.~<. 2®~- • t^OOO«00(M
5^- »2C5>7- " (N0»r>»0 — t^t>.

^-1 (M fm

88669

•

Number of

acres granted to

officers of the

Brit. Army.

00_.Ort< .00000 .

o o{= o o:= o o c o:= - - <•

— O^QOO'jrOfOlM'i^"' - '

2I0I2

Nomber of
acres granted to
members of Leg.
& Ex.Councils.

Number of
acres granted
to LeAiers and

Asso.

— -aAignpHi '6081
0) 96ZI "'('•'J sa^enossB pue sjap
-Baq 0) pd)ucjS sajoe eOS'iSt'' I

, . _. ... ._ ._ 1

■^ir5cot^Xoio--(Mco fo<ni>.

QOQOQOOOaoaOQOOOQOOOQOXOOOO

■«r

(?)

a»

r-»

»^

■^

i-N

_..

107
No. 2.

Return of Crown Lands granted to Leaders of Town-

Lower Canada.

[ships and their Associates from 1796 to 1809.

Year.

179C

1797
i(

1798
1799

1800

Townships.

1801

1802

Dunham

Brome

i Bolton . .

Farnham

Dorset

Bro'ughton . .

Stanstead

Eaton

Upton

Grantham . .

tlunterstown

Stukely

Stanbridge

Stonebam . .

Tewkesbury

Barnston

Ireland . .

Leeds

Shefford . .

Orford

Arthabaska

Barford

Chester . .

• • • •

Hon. Thomas Dunn
Asa Porter
Nicholas Austin
Samuel Gale
J. Black

H. Junken & W. Hail

llsaac Ogden

J. Sawyers

D. A. Grant .

W. Grant

jJohn Jones

^Samuel Willard

jHugh Finlay .

K. Chandler .

G.Wulff& D.Letourneau

R. Lester & R. Morrough

Joseph Frobisher

Isaac Todd

John Savage

Luke Knowltoa

John Gregory ,

J. W. Clarke

S. McTavish ,

40,895
41,758
02,621
23,000
53,000
23,100
27,720
25,620
25.200
27,000
24,620
23,625
41,790
24,000
24,000
23,100
11.550
11,760
35,490
IS.GOO
11,550
27,720
11,550

634,269

' 'I
^ 1

),.-■■«

108

Year.

i,S

1802

1803

1604

ISO;')

Townsliiiis.

Durham

Ely

Ilnlifax

Inverness

Tlictford

VVickham

Stoke

Sutton . .

NVolfstown .

Ascot

Bury

Bui St rode

Brompton .

Clinton . .

Compton

Ditton

Hatley

Kiklare . .

Kingsey

Potton . .

|Shipton

IDiidswell

'Buckingham

Tingwick

AVestbury .

Warwick

Newton

Onslow . .

Melbourne .

Leaders' Names.

No. of Acres.

r. Scotl .. ..

Amos Lay Junior

B. Jobcrt . .

W. McGillivray

Mcrvin Nooth . .

William Lindsay

J amen Cowan

P. Conroy & H. Rest . .

N. Montour

Clilbert Hyatt . . . .

Cnlvin May

Patrick Langan . .

W. Barnard

J. F. Holland .. ..

J. Pcnnoycr & N, Coffin

M. H. Yeomans

H. Cull & !«:. Hovcy . .

P. P. M. De la Valtric.

George Longmore

Henry Ruiter . .

E.Cushing & W.Barnard

.John Bishop

Fortune & Ilawley

S. F. Ferguson .

Henry Caldwell .

A. Steel .. .

M. Gaspard

J. Richardson .

H, Caldwell

2l,<tUl
ll,.'i50
11,. '■'■10
11,. '.50
•23,100
23,7.'>3
43,020
3i)/J00

ii,:.50

20,188
1 1 ,.'..'•.0
21,1(1.3
■10,7.Vl
ll.JjO
'2(],AG0
ll,.'JoO
23,493
11,48(J
11,478
27,j80
58,092
1I,G32
14,910
23,730
12,262
a3,940
12,961
1,073
20,153

004,408

:afi

109

Year.

Townships.

1805
1800

1807

Kingscy
Aucklaud
Frampton
Hereford
■ lull ..
Acton
Ditto . .
Lingwick
Lociiuber
" Templcton
Istanfold

1808 jMaddington

1809 jWentworth
" iFarnhaia

Leaders' Names. No. of Acres.

Major Holland's fainilj
Elizabeth Could . . .
P. E. Desbarats
J. Rankin

I'. Wright

G.W. Allsopp .. .
Gother Man
W. Vondcnveldcn
A. McMillan . . .
Ditto . . ...
Jcnkin Williams
G.W. Allsopp .. .
Jane de Montmollin .
J. Ciiyler & J. Allsopp

From page 1,
2.

Acres. .

11.108
23,100
11,.'>G9
20,800
13,701
24,004
22,8r)9
13,650
13,201
8,949
20,810
0,005
12,390
10,170

218,472
034,209
004,408

1457.209

2 £

I* I

V 1

•,t

%'>

5 •

J '■

I, ■{.

,'■ 1

110

No. 3.

t Return of the number of iu-ith of Liuul locatrtl to iiulu
Lower Cuuttdw. < vidunls in cuth year IVoua I8l7 to the hi. day of Au-

^gU8t IH.'W.

Venr.

Niinibcr of

acreii lonilcd

prior to 1H27.

Number of

ncrcs located

from 1827 to

the Ut August

I838in(;lusive.

Total nund)cr

o\' acrcB under

l^ocation.

KemarkN.

1818

7200

18 1<)

64171)

5417U

1820

47830

1 82 1

I'iilOO

12300

182a

30074

3(i074

1823

G4575

04675

1821

54674

64574

1825

;w;j25

33325

1820

700

liW?

2591

1828

lt312

0312

1829

0200

1830

87995

•

i8;u

24294

18;V2

23698

23098

1833

31270

1834

10400

1835

13400

1830

4704

1837

7932

841357

221802

563159

/ /'

: -i

(<(l toiiulu
ny ol Aii-

cninrkN.

Ill

INo. I.

Lower Cnnniln

{

Return of Crown LniulH Bold in cnch year from iN'iN
to IHJ7, inclusive.

Yean.

Niiinbrr

of acres

•old.

Price.

Rrniillfd (o

Ollicrrt under

lleguUtiont ol'

Ihu 111. Augl.

1h:ii.

Hemitled to
othiTiJ^c, un-
der authority
from the <io-
♦t'riiororSrrrn.
tury of Stiilu.

IttcrUed
i.ini'0 1H3I.

Total inioiiiit
Uerrifi'it.

WIS)
to S

lH'i7)

No iiilct

1
nude.

••

• .

. • • •

1
1

• •

••

• •

••

. •

1H4H

30UI1

d044

»4

• .

. . . .

■ •

*27H2

IH'iO

31300

74(JO

1 i

• •

■ •

■■

223:j

IV (i

IHSO

88077

r4<»i

1
135

!■

• . . .

■

2560

1831

»I3S7

l'i44'2

1
80

■
< • • •

• •

3233 3

«;

IH3'2

'MlUi

eiOH

'ill

553

11 o

• •

••

•2954 19 2 J

IH33

4l&fl0

7.^^0

l.'>

MO!)

" '

430

:(43(i 10 Hj

1831

43113

■JHVl

1
162

■2507

1)10

2IH

aioo 18

18SS

130447

'21772

1
7i»|

4170

1
IK 1

.•

• •

7003 15

•Vi

1830

38067

13000

14 5

4012

O ()

• •

U802 7

18.J7

31300

btiOO

081

• •

7474 10

»1

.19135 24 J

4fiO400i

76091

14008 18 8

039

39135 "i

1
4(5731 I.i'dI

: 1 '

i^*

<yl

119

No. r>.

Ijovte

r Return of Clergy reserves sold in each
r Canada. <

[1837, inclusive.

vcnr 1

rom 182!>to

Year

Acres soli!

on
Quit Kent.

No, of ncres

sold
absolutely.

1
Price. \

Amount rccvd.
since 1 83 1 .

Total
Amount
received.

1829

900

200

1 1
40 1 i

•«

100

18;»0

180()

8156 1250 ; 3

'«

5C1

1831

5700

5G32 1525 9 3 ,

598

18,'»2

0873 1278 II; 8

37278 12791 17, 5 .

1 !

533

1833

3454

1834

772G5 17875

19' l'

7476

1835

111275 123415

IG IH

1067G 'll

lOJ

1836

34310

8568

15; 4

15169 11

1837

18822i

5457

4 7i

11941 10

49840

8400

299811^

72203 17 4

1 i

49840 3

50425

r— — '■-
m IH'J'.Mo

Total

Amount

received.

•J3

9840

)42.'

lOU

6i
6i

LOWER CANADA. <

11.1

No. (>

^Return Hhuwiii^ tliu (|uaiitity of Luiul tcHcrvcd

tor titu iU|)|)ort ul u I'lote^taiit ('lcri;y in tlu;

diU'creMt Lcltcra I'tttcnt, isnued under tin-

(ireut Seal ul llio iVuviiici;, (^liiiiliii^ lunds to

individual!.

T^oTof I

Acres in No. oC I

cacli AcrcH in

TowiialiipcacU year

I71)li Duiiliain
I7J)7Hrome

. . Bolton

. . 'I'otton

1798 Magdalen his

S3j1 1.28

I2.yi4.i.:)

SI 7!)

12(H)
81 4:1

3.1

■ •

rariilmni

KiOO

17Uiniinchinbrook

10>i()

• •

lleinintjloid

4 100

• •

Clil'ton

2400

• •

iXrinayli

481

-• •

Rawdou

.'180

» •

Chathaiu

440

. . HucUiiv^Laiu

400

. . Dorset

lO'iOO

ISOOStoncUaru

4800

. . Tewkesbury

5000

. . Grantliam

5234

. . Hunterstown

4400

• •

Upton

4800

. . :Stanstead

53i'.'i

• ■

llrout^liton

4400

• •

Stukely

4400

» •

Hereford

4400

• •

Gaton

5200

1801

Shcftbrd

G800

. .

Barnston

4400

Orford

2400

, ,

Newport

2000

12713

l'J700

4795!)

2 F

Year

Townitliip.

No (.f

Acres
ill eaeli

l'ltM|ltlll|>.

Nt). ol

Atreii

ID eaeli

Year.

iMOlStaiibiidtte

75>0O

nroiuptoii

H.H)0,

. . Sliipton

IKjOii }i(li)'i

1802 S toko

8200|

Harford

:)40o^

• •

Sutton

7G00|

Windsor

10200

• •

Chester

2300

• •

Siini'son

8200

Halifax

2200

Inverness

2'iOO

Woolfbtown

2200

. .

Leeds

2400

Irciand

2200

• ■

Durham

4200;

. .

CoMipton

5000*

• •

Wickhanj

4345:

Arthabaska

2(00

• •

Thetford

4400

1 1

li:iy

2'200

Ixworth

2007 534 .->

1803

Roxton

4K0Oj

Granby

7G27,

• •

Buckingham

2845

Milton

5!)l)3

• •

Clifton

47G5.2.

Ascot

2747

, ,

Bury

2200

|ftr

Jr.

lir

114

Year

Township.

Acres.

Total.

lYear

i.-.
1806

Township.

Acres.

Total.

1803

Hatley . .

9430

Aston . .

fi454

Ditton . .

2200

cc
cc

Aukland . .
Granby

4400
200

m^ ■ V % ^i' a s # p 9 9

Clinton . .

2000

Bulstrode

4597

Frampton. .

2200

Kingsey . .

3081 2

Acton . .

4876

Hemmingford

1171

Milton . .

100

Kildare . .

2400

Simpson

Potton . .

5993 2

Eardiy . .

1278

Newport . .

2400

Buckland . .

2418

Stanstead

173

63423 2

1 "

Chatham . .

800

24469

1S04

Hemmingford

421

Il807

Lingwick

3000

Tingwick . .

4400

Locliab»f . .

3024

•f

Warwick

4C00

Templeton . .

1841

<•

Eaton

1000

Stanfold ..

4884

Westbury . .

2273

1 cc

Ham . . . .

4400

Nelson

77G1

1 "

Hull . . . .

100

17249

Somerset

7GG9

1808

Grenville

200

Windsor . .

Ham . . . .

200

Tring . . . .

4400

32574

Frampton . .

2359

1805

Barnston , .

200

: ■<

Wendover. .

Riiwdon . .

400

Onslow. .

2330 2

Kingsey

2114

Maddington

1657

Hatley . ,

382

Windsor . .

100

Newton

248G

" jSimpson

100

Onslow . .

200

Somerset . .

Melbourne . .

4813

" Nelson . .

7077 2

Chester . .

2200

1809 Farnham . .

1758

Dudswell

23G5

i "

Sherrington . .

5606

Wendover. .

21G6

il"

Upton

141

»c

Halifax

2400

Wentworth . .

2400

Durham

1300

' "

Templeton . .

1133

11038

Stanstead. .

600

1810

Stanstead

4712

Farnham

800

22426

Compton . .

2G90

1806

Hull . . . .

2G93

•'

Barnston

3006

115

,1 1 , m

Total.

24469

17249

7077 2

1038

Year

Township.

Acres.

Total.

Year
1817

Township.

Acres.

Total.

1810

Shenley . .

1887

Clifton . .

120

" Shipton

Sutton . .

900

" Potton . .

Potton . .

1900

'• jGrenville

200

1?545

Kingsey

200

1811 Ely .. ..

100

Frampton . .

240

.. '

Newton Tract

182

■ 1

Melbourne. .

680

Shefford

4250

Ireland

Barnston . .

600

Grenville

Inverness . .

100

" jTingwick . .

1400

5520

((

Kingsey . .

300

181s Melbourne ..

140

llemmingford

506

Roxton . .

812

Ham . . . .

200

C238 i

Milton., ..

1812

Chatham . .

5400

Granby . .

Leeds . .

1275

(

Eaton . .

Eaton

■ 1

Tingwick

941

Slierrington . .

1200

7900

1 1

Wendover,.

1814

Shefford ..

1881

Ascot . .

652

((

Durham

250

Orford . .

Kingsey . .

200

Hatley . . . .

400

31 5S

««

Leeds . .

100

1819

Chester . .

200

((

Hemmingford

603

Leeds . , . .

240

Tingw'ick

900

Ely .. ..

840

Ascot

Shenley

240

" Wendover . .

4124

Wickham . .

120

1 8 Id Durham ..

2757

Wendover . .

Eaton . .

500

Grantham. .

5000

8257

Simpson

1816

Grantham . .

341

■

Kingsey . .

208

Ix\Yorth . .

1300

Hatley . . . .

235

2217

((

Roxton

23IG

18S0.

Wickham . .

(«

Wendover. .

104

Ashford

Ascot . .

1188

Grenville . .

Stukely . .

3100

Wendover . .

Ely ....

2200

10549

((

Stoneham. .

252

.;-.i4

h 1

Year

1821

Township.

Leeds . .

Ashford . .

Halifax
1822Frampton. .
" :Wickham .
" ,Weedon ..
" Ireland . .
" Grantham. .
" Grcnville
" jWendover. .
" Upton .. .
" Settrington
" jllull .. .
" |Leedg
" Diidswell ,
" Xildare . .

1823 Grantham . .

I
" jBlandford. .

" Grenville . .

" iWeetlon ..

" Ireland . . . .

" Kingsey . .

" .Rawdon

" ,Eaton

" iBarnston

I
" |Lochaber . .

" jDudswcll

" Upton

i
" Frampton . .

" jChester . .

I
" ilnverness

" Ausr. of Wend.

1824Broughton ..

" Ireland . .

250
160
420

.3859

2500
100

2220

81G

180

3189

240

560

5703
580
100
80
160
220
400
120
389
GOO
120
IGO
150
160
lo5
3G0
718

116

Acres. 1 Total.

450

14224

913^

Year
1824

Township.

Acres.

Kingsey

120

Kildare . .

522

Hull . . . .

1090

Aug.of Scig.af Malane

1273

Blandford. .

1518

Leeds . . . .

208

Ascot

1040

Hatley . .

Aug. of Aston

174

Eardley . .

;3()0

■ (

Grenville

€t

Farnham . .

•JOG

Rawdon

! «'

Chester . .

2-!0

1825

Leeds . .

IGO

Kildare . .

; <<

Rawdon

Inverness . .

100

II
> c(

Grantham . .

1826

Frampton. .

440

1 "

Inverness

Leeds

Ascot . .

400

1827

Brandon

I8G0

i "

Hatley . .

200

Farnham

220

Stukely . .

IGO

Grenville

200

1 u

Rawdon . .

Kildare. . . .

1 1

Acton

100

((

Ham . .

I 1800

Hull . . . .

2706

Templeton , .

121

Total.

8023

397

920

117

Total.

Year

Township.

8023

397

020

IsarWickham ,
•• jFrampton. .
1828 Acton .. ,
Chester . .
Ham . .
" jKildare , .
" iRawdon
'• jGranby . .
Hatley . . .
Milton
Dudswell
Frampton. .
Ireland. . .
Brandon . .
Leeds . .
Inverness . .
Stooeham .
Grantham. .
Grenville
Halifax . .
Upton , .
Armagh . .
Tingwick
Wendover. .
Kingsey
J820Hinchinbrook
Frampton. .
Jersey . .
1830 Ham.. ..
Inverness
Chester , .
Ireland . .
Leeds
Hereford

Acres.

140

20
369
160
304 2
120

60
240

80
200
160
440
5G0
340
266

90
40
40
40
160
1460

850

100

520

rj68

1143
120
500
240
40
240

Total.

Year Township.

Acres, i Total.

7607

1830 Ascot
" Hatley . . . .
" Orford . .
" Acton . .

" Roxton ..

" Maddington . .

1831 Frampton..
'• Inverness ..
" Ham and Aug.
" Eardiey . .
•' Leeds . .
" SJieniey ..
" Standon
" Ireland
", Wolfetown ..
'• Dudswell . .
" Hull .. ..

KiJdare . .

Templeton . .

Buckingham

Chester . .

Tingwick

Rawdon . .

Brandon
G143 2', " Halifax ..

Hatley . .

Acton

1628 ! " Broughton ,

Onslow . .

Wickham .

Maddinglori

Upton

SttMieliam .

Wiarwick . .
2 G

1010
1140
128
642
120
57
1157
78
646
20
212
3272
430
220
360
180
440
338
76
720
320
180
520
400
580
270
432
100
40
360
100
160
120
3G0

6380

l&\

: f
■I

^)'

■^Tl

f 1

. S\

118

if-'

■II

!^ -.!

Year

Township.

Acre&

1831 Newport

•• Granby

" . jKingsey . .

" lApg- of AstoD

200

" ;Roxtofi

320

" Ascot

468

Eaton

220

Lochaber . .

155

iGrantham . .

180

1832 Ham .. ..

508?

Inverness ..

974

Leeds . .

640

Rawdon

960

Buckingham

160

Roxton

180

Grantham. .

453

Hull . . . .

[reland . .

1180

Kilkenny ..

1520

Wendover . .

((

Wickham . .

532

Kiidare . .

400

Acton

Chester . .

Wentworth . .

Stanfold ..

264

Oudswell

180

KiDgsey

300

Hatley . .

140

Hemmingford

112

••

Locbaber andGort

> 410

Newport

200

Tingwick . .

160

iBrandoD ..

2040

Total.

13,794

Year

TownshiiY.

Acres, i Total.

l832E4y .. ..

260

<' Halifax . .

120

" i

\.scot . .

" Tewkesbury

« 1

<Srolfatown

100

» J

Bratigfaton . .

340

Mihon . . . .

220

1 •)

Sulstrode

i "

Upton . . . .

220

■1

Granby

Eiaton

Grenville

1470

Templeton ..

380

19,539

1833

Clarendon. .

530

Ham • • . .

1760

Ireland . .

400

Stukely

100

Bardley . .

140

Kingscy . .

120

Hull . . . .

Brandon . .

320

Kiidare & Aug.

505

1 11

Leeds . .

Rawdon . .

400

Roxton

Buckland . .

644

Wickham

Hatley . .

180

Cranbourne . .

578

^ 1.

Templeton. .

Kilkenny . .

260

Dudswell . .

240

. i(

Grenville . .

490

WolfstowD. .

400

119

Total.

19,539

Year

Township.

Acres.

Tot^l.

Year
1834

Township.

Acres.

Total.

l83^!Granby . .

120

Roxton . .

5^46

Warwick

■ 1

Stnnfold

Upton

1644

Cranboume . .

9793

Acton . . . .

Thetford . .

Inverness . .

160

Hatley . . . .

•(

Ixworth . .

1
II

Ely .. ..

160

Halifax

120

Bristol

6859

Grantham. .

■ 1

Matane . .

11217

•• Eaton

160

Wolfttown ..

240

42.623

Barnstbn . .

1835

Stukefy . .

Wendover . .

Buckingham

420

Buckingham

240

Dudswell

180

Lochaber . .

10,051

Chester . .

700

1834

Stukely . .

Inverness

340

Buckingham

1280

Kilkenny . .

560

Diidswell

700

1 1

Halifax. .

826

li-

Chester . .

220

" Rawdon . ,

1700

Inverness . .

360

'* Maddin.^ton. .

«i

Kilkenny . .

280

" jGrenville

040

••

Halifax. . . .

320

" -Leeds . . . .

665

Rawdon . .

7G0

Templeton. .

Maddington

520

Ham . . . .

1025

Grenvillt and Aug.

180

Brandon . .

Leeds . .

176

" Acton . . . .

520

Templeton . .

120

Frampton. .

260

Ham • • . .

793

Tring . . . .

600

Brandon . .

Ireland

460

Acton . . . ,

100

" Kildare. ...

Frampton. .

340

Clarendon. .

1656

Tring . . . .

440

Litchfield . .

263

Ireland . . . .

340

i
1

Roxton . .

280

Kildare . .

Stanfold

262

Clarendon . .

180

Cranbourn. .

280

Litchfield . .

6868

Thetford . .

1296

m,.!.

m >

Ip- '

■ H

m ■

■:?

K'-'

,:*

R'-'

s' ■ 1 1

iiPl

^11

120

IV ,

Year

Township. 1 Acres.

1835
<<

Total. Year

• • • •

Matley
Ely
" Bristol ..
" Milton ..
" Wolfstown ..
" Ware
" Eaton
. " Warwick ..
' ' Standon aad Aug.
" Wcedon ..
" Lochaber..
" Tingwick . .
•' Grantham. .
" Granby
" Kingsey
" Weudovcr. .
" Wiclvham .
" Stoke
" Broughton .
" Hull. . . .
" Baniston
" Newport . ,
" Aug. of Aston
" Onslow
]836Thetford ,.
" Ixworlli . .
'• Dudswell . .
" Bristol . .
" Acton .. .
" Grenville. .
" j Lochaber
" ILitchfield . .
" jRoxton..
" iRawdon ..

354 1 24
1154

1609

100

G710

500

580
3215

260
2737

160

220
20

270
640

80
300

10
635
160

3,055 S S5

80
510

S,GSi SI

80
210 16
300
133

280
3G0

* 1

1836
<<

Township.

83,1CS 1 S4

Inverness . .
Ireland
Eaton. . . .
Hull ..

Buckingham
Ware . .
Warwick
Chester . .
Wcndover .
" Clarendon. .
Newport
Cranbourne
Kilkenny
Wickham. .
Buckland . ,
Stoke

Hatley . . . .
Orford . .
Maddington
Leeds
Kingsey
Eardly

Tring .. ..
" Onslow . .
Aston . .
Bulstrode . .
Jersey . .
Broughton. .
Stukely
Conipton . . 11

Ely, .. .

""^.by . .
" iWara .. .
" JAufi.ofJvildarej

Acres.

100

180

1250

1687
1)34
160
200
472
253
100
ISO
259
20
189
20

1243

480

233

160

380
20

200

120

336
40
20

20
SOO
31

SO
140

Total. I

121

Year

Township.

Acres.

Total.

Year

Township.

Acres.

Totiil.

1836

Ashford

l837Standon

389 32

1 '
1

Wecdon ..

460

" ^Warwick..

100

Halifax . .

18037 33

" Chester

360

1837

Thctford . .

2252 16

" Urotigliton

560

Ely .. ..

200

" IVendovcr . .

68r.

■

" Cranbournc

'' Clarondun..

«« Diiilswfll..

'« 'Litchfield ..

122 1 24

UW'J 1 1

" Kilkenny ..

1838 Thctford . .

797 1 24

Bristol . .

321 3 20

" Buckingham

495 t 18

VVickhani . .

100

•' Chester

360

Ashford ..

5G0

" Ashford ..

yoo

Grenville ..

120

" Grenville ..

VVewlon ..

140

" Orford ..

Wolfstown ..

400

" Tring . . . .

170

Roxton . .

120

" Kilkenny..

140

" Matldington

" Onslow

« ShcfTord . .

" Knwduu . .

140

^ " jKawtlon .,

240

" Kingsey

»♦ AVcntworth . .

566

" Inverness. .

400

" gtukcly ..

'• Kingsey ..

•* Marin ..

13 3

«« Stanfohl ..

280

" Ham

" Ireland . .

120

"'Armagh ..

202 2

" Chatliam . .

" Clarendon. .

" Eaton

•' Aug.olKildare

" Tring . . . .

•100

" Bulstrode . .

100

'• Parnliani . .

" Braiiilun . .

183

" Onslow

28 3

" Broughton .. 740

'• jGranthara..

" Bristol . . 20 27i

3887 '29 i

" Buckingham
" Upton . . . .

1082 2 39
40

673367 m^

« .

Bulstrode . .

514

Kecapitula

tion.

3 II

i fi 'I

" )]

> i

Ill

122

Number of Atires relelrved for the siippiort of a Protestant Clergy in

each Township .

Township.

No. of Acres.

Township.

No. of Acres.

Acton . . . .

7239

Dunhatit . .

8179

Armagh . . . .

C8S 2

Durham . . . .

8507

Arthabaska . .

2000

Gardly . . . .

1758

Ascot

7560 Eaton

9365

Ashford . . . .

1060 Ely

7154

Aston and Aug. . .

6324 Farnham .. ..

7678

Aukiand . . . .

4400 jFrampton

8556

Barford

5400

Granby

8487

Barnston . .

8376

Grantham

13871

Bland ford . .

7221

Grenville and Aug.

534G 16

Bolton

12524 1 5

Halifax

6906

Brandon

5183

Ham . . . .

17517 2

Bristol . . . .

11464 38iHatIey .. ..

14134 1 24

Brome

8351 1 28 Hemmingford . .

7303

Bromptou

8000

Hereford

4640

Broughton . .

G600

Hinchinbrook . .

1120

Buckingham . .

9330 17

Hull .. .. ..

7732

Buckland . .

3251 iHunterstown ..

4400

Bulstrodc

526!)

Invernesa . . . .

5242

Bury

2200

Ireland . .

6838

Chatham . .

6680

Ixworth

1620

Chester

7850

Jersey . . . .

1088

Clarendon

2699 jKildare and Aug.

4993

Clifton . . . .

7285 2 Kilkenny . . . .

3043

Clinton . .

2000 Xingsey . . . .

6693 2

Compton

7701 31 Leeds

6792

Cranbourne . .

10871 Lingwick

3000

Ditton . . . .

2200 Litchfield .. ..

7386 1 24

Dorset

10200 Lochaber

7055

Duds\Ycll

1
5245 jMaddington

2647

185161 30i

199051 3 24

it Clergy in

of Acres.

^179

*507

1758

)3G5

ri54

'678

H556

^487

3871

i346

Ifi

J906

(517 2

M34 I

^303

1640

120

732

400

242

838

G20

088

993

043

G93 2

792

OOO

}8G 1

)5j

347

123

1 ■ ■ - -»

Towiuhipi

1 > »■« — - -

Noi ofi Aotfet;

Tqwi»»)up<,

No. of Acicij.

Magdalea hlands

8143

Stanfold .. ..

:>T,\{)

Mataneand Aug..

12490

Stanstead . . . .

10810

Maria . . . .

Mi^'A

Stukfl

8300

Melbourne . . . .

5G33

8tOll«iuMili . .

5000

Milton . . . .

G653

Stukely .. ..

8035

NeUon

7811

Sutton

8500

Newport . . . .

5375

Templeton

3791

Newton

2668

Tewkesbury

5080

Onslow . .

2790 1

Thelford .. ..

11821 35

Orford . . . .

3101

Tingwick . ,

8991

Potton . . . .

9118 2

Tring

6210

Rawdon . . . .

6280

Upton and Aug , .

8665

Roxton . .

9564

Ware . . . .

7644

Shefford . . . .

12957

Warwick . ,

5840

Settrington

3189

Weedon . .

3460

Sherrington

6806

Wendoverand Aug.

4806

Shenley . .

5399

VVentworth . . . .

3046

Shipton

11635

Westbury. .

2273

Simpson . . . .

8378

Wickham , . , .

9658

Somerset . .

7725

Windsor . .

10350

Stanbridge . . . .

7800

Wolfstown . . . .

3800

Standon. .

4034 32

147543 2 32

141810 35

From Col. 1

185161 39i

" 2

199051 3 24

•« " 3
Total. .

147543 2 32

673567 10^

)51 3 24

.it f

F'ti

III

124

No. .7

Memorandum of Sales of Crown Lands and Clergy Reserves between
the 1st September, 1828 and 30th June, 1836 in which the quantity sold
to each Individual or Company exceeds 5000 acres.

Purchaser.

Township.

British American
Land Company,

Wickham
Acton

Drome

••

Milton . . . .

Granby . . . .

Shefford

. .. i9i .

Stukely . .

«t

Ely ....

•1

Roxton . . . .

«<

Stanstead . .

Barnston

Potton . . . .

Bolton

Hatlcy . . . .

Newport

Wcedon . .

Dudswell

«i

Westbury

Brompton . .

••

Orford . . . .

Stoke . .

Ascot . . . .

Bury

Lingwick . .

Melbourne

Barford

Clifton . . . . '

«»

Eaton . .

Auckland . . {

720

3208
4447
2400
2074
2200
1800
3071
5200
8060]

130
3250^
4400
1700
3073
3800
8G00
0005}

925
1706

200
3941
2000
2000
2400
CO
4800
8288
4350
3800

Total.

Totnl.

19ft

Purchaser.

Towtuliii

Hun. Mult. B«ll, Cuxtnn . . .

Henry Hunt Humplireys

and Webb, ! "

Jas.H.Kcrr&T.Kimplon. Huntcrstown. .

Lt. Col. D. McDougall,

Acton

Upton . . . .

• «

Westbury

Tyler Hervey Mooro

Simpson

Wcndover

Wickham . .

Grantham

Charles R. Ogden,

Stukcly

Newport . .

«l

Thetford . .

«l

Eaton . . . .

Clinton

Hon. J. Richardson,

Grantham

Tho». Allen Stayner,

Chatham

Horton . .

Blanford

Randolph Isham Routh,

Ware, CraalwurDC,j^ SUndoD

Thomas Ryan,

Kingsey

Total. .

Cniwi). Clergy. 'f^^^iKff'

4300
31

1G82

7735
10500
94GG3
4400

1600

4400

3200

400

2000

5600

200

400

1588

5460

6599

10500

180O

5,'«|

4200
II

4005
1048 [
7800
6400
3184^

251700^

{

. ■-(■

'• 1

I/.

'i.

III

3 J i: I

12(i
RKCAPITULATION.

l\ircl)U8eri.

Uritisli American hand Cuinpuuy

llonorablo Matlhew Rcll .

Henry Hunt Humphries anil Webb . .

Jnmcs Hnstin|j;B Kerr and T. Kimpton

Lieutenant Col. O. McDougall

'I'yicr Hervey Moore

(.'harien Kicliard Ogdcn

Hon()ral)lc J. Richardson

Thomas Allen Stnyner

Kanilolph Isham Routh

Thonins Ryan

Total.

' Crown.

Clergy.

Total.

720

I00056i

\0{)7H'JJ

1 flOCO

50(K)

22888

.'i331 j

2H2I9

1300

'1200

8500

1713

5053

6700

! M810I5

1738 li

55-18()-]

1 3200

11 GOO

14800

5(500

5000

200

74-18

7648

, 6599

(i599

10500

1800

12300

93227;

158-472}

2ol700i

Total.

I0()7H2J

2021!)

8:)Oo

I48()0
7648

(in;)!)

I2;300
25l700i

127

* No. 8.

C Return of the Qunntily or Land sold in the
LOWKIt CANADA. <

(District olGaspu since 1827.

Year

Township.

Acrei

I'olnl No.

Acre*.

Puroha.ser8.

Remarks.

183.-)

Ristigouche

2100

Robert ChriHtie

Remitted

18:151

2(J8

Robert Fergusou

1761

15 Purchasers

((

«l

210

Edward Quinlin

<•

200

Richard Primroy

•

• •

236

John Rodger 8

200

Patrick Doyle

■ 1

200

Michl. CiieatcrB

• 1

200

5375

William Callow

1834 Kempt Road

1366,

14 Purchasers

500

Peter Ingram

■ <

186

David Nelson

252

Alexander Allen

234

George Dickson

200|

James Haley

1835

500

3238 3 Purchasers

1834 Maria

1202

14 do.

• 1

305

Wm. Cuthbert & Co.

1835

568

Do.

)(

2159

1 Purchaser

1834

NewRichinond

719

Wm. Cuthbert & Co.

2785

28 Purchasers

1835

2019

21 do.

352

5875

Edward Burton

1834

Carleton

174

2 Purchasers

1635

327

John Grant

487

988

5 Purchasers

Hamilton

2003

20 do.

760

2763

Edwd. Enwright

Remitted (Military.)

20398

.;.!•

•14 ■

128

Year

Township.

Acres.

Total
No. of
Acres.

Purchasers.

Remarks.

1835

Hamilton

300

3000 Arthur Ritchie

Hope

1546

Edwd. Enwright

Remitted (Milittry.)

((

Port Daniel

300

Do.

2146

From page 1.

20398

22544

■it

111

LOWER CANADA.

129

No. 9.

C Recapitulation of the number of acres granted
<gratuitou8ly, under Patent in each Township from
» 1796, to 1st. August 1S38 inclusive.

Township.

No. of Acres in-
cluded in patents
prior to 1827,

Acton

Armagh

Arthabaska

Ascot

Ashford . .

Aston and Augment.

Aukland

Barford . .

Barnston

Blandford. .

Bolton

Brandon . .

Bristol

Brome

Brompton . .

Broughton

Buckingham

Buckland . .

Bulstrode , .

Bury

Chatham . . . .

Chester

Clarendon

Clifton

Clinton . .

Compton

Cranbourne

Ditton

23000

2400
11000
38G00

1200
27792
22000
26400
29G0O
37G57
62621 1 30

41757
40200
23800
16300
11500
23800
1 1000
41 860
25151

49530
11000
25200

11000

G 14375 30
2 K

No. of arret included in

Piitenis from 1827 to 1st

AugutI 18SS invlusife.

12751

32G47
3900
3-181

200

22219
2452

9300

1592G

4014

3662

16565
10683
12901

646
3986

Totiil number of hcuj

({rinileJ grntuitoutly in

Li'llcri ruttnt.

35751

2400
11000
71247

5100
31273
22000
2G400
29800
37657
62G21 1 30
22219

2452
41757 3
40200
33100
32226
15514
27462
11000
58431
35834
12901
49530
11000
25746

3986
11000

155233 769608 30

130

^ ■•

Township.

No. of acres in-l

eluded in patents

prior to 1827.

Dorset

Dudswell . .

Dunham

Durham . .

Eardiy

Eaton . . . .

Ely

Farnham . .
Frampton . .
Godmanchester . .
Granby
Grantham
Grenville and Aug.
Halifax
Ham

Hatley

Hemmingford

Hereford

Hinchinbrook

Hull

Huntingdon

Inverness . .

Ireland . .

Ixworth

Jersey

Kildare and Aug.

Kilkenny . .

Kingsey . .

Kennebec road

Leeds

Lingwick

Litchfield . .

Lochaber

No. of Acrei included in

Patcnti from 1S27 to lit.

Augurt 1888 incluiive.

50736
14400
40895
42253
7900
36500
26800
39440
28300
41939
33900
76869
11138
23300
13400
26100
39420
20800
22019
16656

12300

17974

7633

14330

30110

24132
12O0O

Total iiumbtr oracrci

gianled gratuitouiljr in

L«tteri Patent.

9300
200
1360
1210
4900
5300
200
14000
26847 1 36
12100
4368
14400
7000

9512

1591

1200

21267 3 34

15889

14676

745819

10890

15397

200

6457

4676

15842

3400

1260

11687

836
10959

50736
23700
41095
43613
9110
41400
32100
39640
42300
68786 1 36
46000
81237
25538
30300
13400
35612
41011
22000
43286 3 34
32546
2 26 2 26
23190
33371
7733
5457
1900G
16842
33510
1260
35819
12000
836
25634

231250

16 977069 16

number oracrei
ed gr>tuitouily in
«tlera Patent.

50736

23700

41095

43613

9110

41400

32100

39640

42300

68786 1 36

46000

81237

25538

30300

13400

35612

41011

22000

43286 3 34

32545

2 26

23190

33371

7733

5457

19006

15842

J3510

1260

J5819

12000

836

15634

177069 16

Township.

181

No. of acres in-j No. orAcretindudccf Total number of ncrti
:Cluaea in patents! •» patenU from IH.-? ' grameil gmtuitoutly in
' Drier to 18''7 |"> l" A"1!-1'^''8 'Ui^'u'i'ei Letters Paltcnt.

Maddington

Magdalen Islands

Matane and Aug.

Melbourne

Milton

Nelson

Newport )

Newton

Onslow . .

Orford

Potton

Rawdon

Roxton . .

Shefford

Settrington

Sherrington .

Shenley . .

Shipton

Simpson. .

Somerset

Stanbridge

Standon

Stanfold ..

Stanstead .

Stoke

Stoneham .

Stukely . .

Sutton

Templeton

Tewkesbury.

Thetford . .

Tiogwick .

Tring

11 GOO

48847

29700
23800
36800

22800

16160
13400
13600
32600
6500
23700
33800
13023
34593
11800
58200
42300
38300
39800

24000
79262
43000
24000
37475
39900
16000
25200
22000
41187
22100
925447'

3905

1 5505

48847

1663

700

30400

1500

25300

100

36900

4875

27675

1.6160
14052

652

13600
32600
30700

24200

7515

31215

33800
13023
35144

551

15956

27756
58200

528

42828
38300

1114

40914

4349 2

4243

28243

79262

100

43100

600

24600

1330

38805
39900

2690

18690

400

25600
22000

5425

46612

8000

30100

90396 2

1015843 2

yj'

132

||:^

Township.

No, of acrcH in

eluded ill patents

prior to 1827

Upton and Aug. . .
Warwick
Woedon . .
Wendover and Aug.
Wentworth . .
Westbury. .
Wickhanj
Wnulsor . .
Wolfstown . .
Winslow . .
3 Islands in River St.

Tliomas
Islands in Ottawa

231)40
12800

11800
12000
3;V2\)\
/>1:K)0
1 1000

nooo

No, of ncrca jiirliidcd in Tutnl iiiimbor ofacrn
r«tvn(ii Irniii 1K37 tu Kt, giuiilcci grdiiilouil; ill
Aug. IHSSincluiivo. J^tteii I'litenl.

I 11)0880
From page 1.. J 6M^7ti iW
" 2... 74:)819
" " 3... 025147

laoio

5000
1800
filR.T 2

looo

4020
71)00

17 .^2
II

42.021
21)540
17600
ll)r)33 2
13.300
12000
37.311
.'')1200
IN! 100
3000

17 .32
11

48047 2 32
1:».j233

2312.50 16

1)030<] 2

2\6:m 2 32
701)008 30
077009 !6
1016813 2

2482527 30 .f),'i5o27 1 8 '.3()080.')4 1 .38

i %i

iil

183

nkor of (crci
mliiilouil) in
I I'littnt.

13 2

17 32

33 2

3 2

:a 1 38

S
M

6o OJ 03 iji 03 \C U

Oi OS lo jr?. o '-0 17'

Vj (T: f/) r/i

— to

(O O

f/3 ^ •'I

OJ o> — —

O IC C - I

tr> •_■• X >'*■

ic C' >i^ OS

■VI

_ 1^ >U ^ lO ^^

•■I Cj> — O lyj W >U

QO K> — cr> --I — o

v| 'O >— OS O — CO

0« tn to CC OJ — O

O O © -t* C- lO tM

Hi
TO

to' rj

Upset j
price '

JO '

— . c^

TO
TO T3

'^ 5'

l''|isvt prico

TO a ar

CX)

OS
o

tCi 05 C5 "^ I IC -^ 0»

u >u 4^ cr> ci oi 9i it^

a> CO oj >i^ to 4^

I -^1 03 4- C) .t. Oi -^J Ci -- . _ _- - _-

. *. Q © -^ O' O' CO Ji t;< C-T O J* O CI to C< C5

lOQOO — 4i.OOOO — Oi^l^lW

O©05— OOOOQCOC3 — 0>

' d\ ICiil-CV 14-. lO
' C'K^ C- C' CX o<

4* to .U' to 4* InS 4-
_0. C^ Q^ O^ Oi CX Q,

*-l

Oi o
<<0 C

en c-

W 4- CO

1— ' OO 0- 4^ »- ►"•

Oi QO — lO CaJ W

^1 >U O C O (O

4* O CO Oi C?) o

ft.' to
4^ CO

■I

O —

Ob d; CO

o 2^

Upset price

a
o

*— <

^-»

M-*

■»«

v»

kB^

'.5

-1

"^I

J-

Oi o

»■—

M_t

»►

4:-

-» o

•^1

Ji.

•^J

■-*

►— '

.._,

X'5. s

en 9

B » "

2.5

r* __ O tr
OS **

c o

■51^8

8 o- g

n :,'

5 »

2.5 «

o E-t

>-» "^ci-

(T)

C/i

2 L

>•

!-♦

111

*-♦

<:-■

•-!

•^

c«

»-♦

1— •

TO
TO

f-»-

(/»

(/i

>->>

r-»

p
o.
p

f ■

IS:-!

IVi

134

No. 11.

Memorandum of Sales of Clergy Reserves, between the 4th July, 1829,
and 31 at December, 1837, arranged in Classes of Sales of Lots less and not
exceedioff 100 acres, in Lots exceeding 100 and not exceeding 200 acres,
and any larger quantities.

1829

1830

1831

1832

1833

1834

1835

1836

1837

72
23

1
1

1
2

• •

Totals.

Lest & not exceeding ->
100 acres. j

Exceeding 100 and not)
exceeding SOO. )

.. 200 .. 300

.. 300 .. 400

.. 400 .. 500

.. 500 .. 600

.. 700 .. 800

.. 800 .. 900

.. 900 .. 1000

.. 1000 .. 1100

.. 1100 .. 1200

. , 1200 .. 1300

.. 1600 .. 1700

.. 1700 .. 1800

.. 2000 .. 2200

.. 2300 .. 3400

Not exceeding 9632

28
8

88
13

• •

1
1

19
1

• •

• «

• •
t •

• «

• •

250

65
9
2

• •

• •
■ •

• •

120

30
3

67
21

t •

• •

• ■

• •

29
2
4
4

• •

684

209
16
11
5
3
3
1
2

2
1

944

•I

J. ?('

Totals.

684

209

•

■

5
3
3

2
1

944

135

No. 12.

Memorandum of Sales of Crown Lands, between the 18th March, 1828,
and the3l8t December, 1837, arranged in classes of sales of lots les^ and
not exceeding 100 acres, in lots exceeding 100 and not exceeding 200
acres, and any larger quantities.

1
18281829

1830

1831

1832

1833

1834

1
1835

1
1836

1837

Lets & not eiceeding)
100 acres )

1
40

286

266

435

164

161

131

1706

Eiceediag 100 8c not>
eiceedlDg 200. )

40 1

287

.. 200 .. 300

• •

9 •

.. 300 .. 400

• •

.. 400 .. 600

t •

• •

.. 500 .. 600

• •

.. 600 .. 700

, •

, ,

• •

.. 700 .. 800

1 •

• •

.. 800 .. 900

• •

■ •

• •

.. 900 ., 1000

• •

• ■

• •

.. 1000 .. 1100

• •

..1100 .. 1200

• a

, •

, ,

.. 1200 .. 1300

• •

.. 1300 .. 1400

• •

.. 1400 .. 1500

• •

, .

• •

.. 1500 .. 1600

• •

„

• •

.. 1600 .. 1700

« •

• •

, ,

.. 1700 .. 1800

• •

, ,

• •

.. 1800 .. 2000

• •

••

, ,

.. 2000 .. 2200

. •

• •

, ,

.. 2200 .. 2300

■ •

« «

• •

.. 2300 .. 2700

• •

, ^

• •

.. 2700 .. 2726

• •

, ,

■ •

.. 2726 .. 2850

• •

, ,

.. 2850 .. 325C

• •

.. 3260 .. 360C

m •

• •

.. 3600 .. 400C

• ■

• •

* •

• •

.. 4000 .. 4266

• t

••

' ..

••

• •

;arrie(

1
lover

.H !

. : I
■■ 4 '

•* :; i

\?J

»■«

^ .

II .

?. ■'.

136

Mcmoiandutn of Salea of Crown Lands, &c. continued.

1828,l8'2nll8;»0 1831 1832 1833il834:l83n I83(i 183/

i! 4268 5; not )
exceeding b'180. )

Exceeding
ccedi

5280

5525

5525
5G70

.. 5G70 .. 7104

I I

1
I
1
1

12170

li* ■ t 'I

^^r

'li

1837

• •

1 1

2170

I rj

UPPER CANADA.

joAn 'Radtnhwtatt Esqr.

Chief Clerk of the Surveyor General's Office.

How long have you been connected with the land granting department
in this colony f

Ihavc been in the Surveyor General's Office for twenty years. I have
for nine years been Chief Clerk, during the whole of which period I have
discharged all the duties of Surveyor General as well as Chief Clerk,
(except for about nine months) and I still continue to perform the same
duties. I have twice been appointed Acting Surveyor General for periods
of six and eight months.

What have been the systems, of disposing of waste lands, the property
of the crown pursued in this Province since its establishment ?

Immediately after the revolutionary war with America ail persons who
had served in the Colonial Corps that were raised during that war, were
entitled to grants of land according to their rank, Field Officers 5,000
acres. Captains 3,000 acres, Subalterns 2,000, Sergeants 300, Privates
200, those too who had not borne arms during the war, but who at the
peace came into this country, previous to the expiration of 1783, were
entitled to n grant of 200 acres, or so much more at the discretion of the
Governor and Council, as the number of their family or the extent of
their means might justify ; these grants were made upon condition of
actual settlement. The sons and daughters of the latter class (who are
denominated U. E. Loyalists* born or to be born, weie to receive a grant of
200 acres each on their coming of a^e ; these lastnamed grants were
subject to no condition till the year 1818, the fact of the party to whom
the grant was made being settled in the Province where the land was
granted to him being considered sufficient. I have also understood that soon
after the establishment of this Province, as early as 1790 or thereabouts,
some Townships were to have been granted to persons who would
undertake to locate upon them a specific number of settlers, in proportion
to the size of the township ; after some progress had been made by sc >ic
of the nominees towards performing these conditions, the plan was
abandoned, and grants of land were made amounting to 1200 acres each,
as a compensation for the trouble and expense incurred. In addition to
the grants thus described every Executive Councillor received a grant of
5,000 acres, free from all conditions except the payment of a small fee,
the children of Executive Councillors also received 1,200 acres each free
from condition — this practice continued up to 1810- In 1804, new
regulations of granting land were introduced, by which all grants were
made subject to certain fees, with the exception of privileged grants to
U. E. Loyalists, Officers, Soldiers, Executive Councillors and their
children. At the discretion of the Governor and Council, grants not
exceeding 1,200 were made to Clergymen, Magistrates and Barristers,
free from all conditions except the payment of fees. Similar grants
might be obtained by almost every body upon the same condition ;
in fact the payment of fees appears to have been the main, if
■ot the only object contemplated in the granting of land subsequent
to the introduction of the table of fees in 1804. This practice
ti granting land at the discretion of the Governor and Council to any one

■ ( ;

)'^'

-
■

■'1 ' '

wliom they might consider entitled to it, without any other condition than
that of payment of fees continued till 1818, when the performance of
settlement duties was attached as a condition to every grant. Subse-
quently to this period grants of land were made with ratlier more reserve
than previously, and every person receiving a grant ot land, obtaining only
a location ticket which only entitled him tu occupation of his land, was
bound to clear and crop five acrrs for every hundred, and to clear half
tiie road in front of his location before a potent issued for his grant. This
system continued upon ull free grants of land till 1^3(0, when the perfor-
mance of settlement duties was dispensed with, except in the case of
Officers and Privates to whose grants these conditions still reiuain
attached. By an order in Council, imposing these settlement duties, a
scale of fees was attached to every grant in proportion to tlie extent of land
granted, but grants of fifty acres were allowed to be made gratuitously
to poor settlers. In July 1825, instructions were received from Lord
Bathurst, directing the sale of land upon quit rents. Under these
instructions however scarcely any sales were made, and in the following
year under similar instructions, the system of selling was introduced and
has been continued up to the present time.

You have detailed the methods of disposing of waste lands which have
been pursued since the establishment of the Province, and the character
of the persons who either under instructions from the Home Guvcrnuient
or orders in Council, were considered as entitled to grants ; has any land
been granted in exception to these methods, if any thing could be re-
garded as exceptional to proceedings so irregular .'

Large grants have been made to Colonel Talbot, amounting to 48,520
acres as a compensation for having settled two hundred and forty settlers
upon 12,000 acres of land. This was in addition to 1,200 acres
upon the payment of the usual fees. There was also a grant to the heirs of
General Brock of 12,000 acres, and u grant of 12.000 to the Bishop of
Quebec ; these two last were under special instructions from Lord
Bathurst. Grants amounting in the whole to 264,180 acres have been made
to persons contracting for the survey of townships, as a compensation for
such surveys, in lieu of money payment. Grants liave also been made to
Officers and men in diflcrent Corps, of Militia, who served during the last
war with the United States, Grants were also made to the Gcttlcis sent
out under the supciintendence of the late Mr. llubinson in liSli5. A
quantity of land has been granted also, chiefly in the f'atluirst distiict, to
o!f^ soldiers and military Emigrants, the greatest part of whom were sent
out by the Home Government. A grant of 5,000 acres was ii ide to the
Jaird of McNab, as a compensation for bringing out settlers.

I !

r;i,

I :•) J:'

Mil

ill '■

Under whot authority have grants of land been made in this Province?

Up to the tiraeof the division of the Provinces in 1791, nil grants
were made by the authority of the Governor uiul Council, at Quebec,
acting' under Instructions from the Home Government.

Cull you stato how iniicli land wasgianlcd in this Province previous to
that period ?

I have no means of ascertaining, as there arc no records in the oflice,
but the plans tinnsinitted from Quebec, wherlion (he locations weai;
made ; but I believe the amount is eomporativcly small. After the divi,
sion of the Fro\inccs all tyrants were niiide l»v the Governor in C^ouiicil,
also under Instructions from the Home (jiovtrmncnt.

)ndition than
rfortnance of
ant. Subsc-
more reservs
jtaining only
Ills land, was

to clear half
m'ant. Tliii
I the perfor-

thc case of

still remain
lent duties, a
.\tcnt of land

gratuitously
[1 from Lord
Under tliese
he following
:ro(Iuced and

i which huvo
ihc character
Government
has any land
could be rc-

ng to 48,520
forty settlers
1,200 acres
u the heirs of
e Uishoi) of

from Lord
c been made
lensation for
ccn made to
ling the last
GcltltMs sent
1 1.S25. A

district, to
m were sent
n ide to the

is Province?
, nil grants
it Quebec,

previous to

the office,
ilions vicm:
er the divi-

M C^ouiicil,

.' .. , 1,1' I ■

■ ■' t . ■) (_

■ .1 . ''

M , :i

W«ro Aot gmnl« unttor Ak« auAhority of Un«l boards appointed by the
Governor ?

Tlicro were such boards appointed in 1769 for the Ningarc, Midland
And W«H<«cn di!i(rict», lo which it was itireUed by an order in Council,
that applications tthould be made, and (hcsu boaids wcro empowered tu
give a uerlificDtc to any appUcaut, entilinf; him lo 200 acres of land upon
copdiUon of actual a«ltle<neat within one yearfroon the date of the grunt.

Do you know how many towuMiiipi wer« to tiqve been assigned to
indiviiiuMU H()on llic conditions which you <bavo mentioned of locutin;>- a
certain number of ianiilieson them i i i •. i < (• -i in i

About t«iii.

How mucli land was granted to the individuals to whom lhei<e (own-
9h\pH wer.0 lobave beon Msigned by way oi' compensation ?

Twelve hundred acres each, amounting lolU,OOU Acres in the whole.

Po you know why tho system oi'grahlia^ land in townships u> ih«
nominees was abandoned ? ' .

I do not know. ..(..t.lil . ' I

Wcf« there not a considorabJc number pf applications for grants of
town>ihi|)s upon these terms i

YeB thvro were. . . 1

How many '/ ,,. . i .. u . .

About fifty.

Which would have comprised 3,000,000 acres of knd ?

Ye3.

Might not the extent of the demand thus suddenly made, have led
the Council to panse for fear of the result ?

It is probable that this might have been the case, but I do not know.

Has it not been the case that one or two oi the townships thus intend-
ed to have been assigned, (that of' Markhura tor instance; has been all
acltled by the exertion of the nominee ?

Yes this was the case with Markham, andOifbrd which were well set.
tied by the exertions of Mr. lugorsol.

Was it not part of the Instructions framed by the English government
for the regulation of (he land granting department in llii.s Provitirc, that
no grunt should exceed 2U0 acres, a discretion being vested in the Go-
vernor of making a further subiieqiicnt grant uot exceeding;- lOOfi acres ?

It was part ot the original iustructionsj.

The reafou atssigned for this circunutanco was, that in tiio old nriti:;!!
Colonwb great inconvenience had been found to result IVuin the granting
excessive (pmntities of lauds to particular persons who have never culti-
vated or inprovcd the suiue, and thus have prevented others who were
industrious, from improving such lands, was it not?

Yes it was.

Do you know under what authority the grants of 5000 acres to Ex-
ecutive Councillors, in direct violation of the spirit and letter of these
instructions were made P

1 hove understood ihey were made upon recommedat ions from the
Council of the Province, and ronfiruied by the Home Government.

Up to what time did Executive Councillors continue entitled to grants
<ot' land I

1 think tho last grant was made in 1807.

'.■'■' '
"in'.

S '!

f:':

5«I

R 1'

\ -y

Were any granta made to the children of Executive Councillor! aub*
senuciit to that period ?

No, I believe not.

At what age were the children of Executive Councillor! entitled to
a grant ?

1 do not know that there was any fixed nge.

Was there not one case in wliidi a fi;ratit oi' land was applied for in
rctpect of a child two or three days old )

Yes there wai ; but this was in the case of the child of a Legislative
and not of an Executive Councillor.

Did it ever happen that reserves were made for such children before
they were born 7

I do not know that it was before they were born, but there is {\m
instance of a reserve being made three days after.

How much land was granted on the whole under the difiercnt systems
you have described, previously to the introduction of the system of 1825 ?

I should imagine upwards of 13,000,000 of acres.

In what proportion have these lands been granted to the different clas-
ses you have described 1

I will furnish a return in answer to this question.

You have stated that in 1818 grants of land were made subject to the
performance of settlement duties ; for what quantity of land did patents
issue upon proof of the performance of the settlement duties?

Does this comprise the whole amount of land located between 1818
and 1825 ?

No, it does not ; a great number of locations were made, the
patents for which were not applied for until after the performance of set.
tiement duties were dispensed with, during this period also a great many
persons who had become entitled to free grants would not even apply for
locations, lest they should become subject to the pcrlbrmance of these
conditions.

So that probably neorlv the whole of the patents issued during the
period were to actual setters f

Yes, to actual settlers, or to persons who placed actual settlers on the
land granted.

For what quantity of land have patents been issued since 183G, when
the performance of settlement duties, as a condition of patent, was aban-
doned ? 8CI" Answer to be given hereafter.

You have stated that the obtaining of fees appears to have been the
main, if not the only object contemplated, in the granting of land since
1804. What were the fees required upon grants of land at that time P

nd grants und
Oq all grants

er 100 acres
of 200 "
300 "

£6 9

8 4

12 6

400

16 8

500

20 10

600

24 12

700

28 14

«#•

800

32 16

900

36 18

' II

1000

2i
3

3*
4

4i
5

icillori tub.

entitled (o

iplied for in

Logialatiro

dren befors

here is this

rent syHtcmii
tern ol' 1825?

ilTcrent clas<

ubject to the
d did patciitit

;tween 1818

3 made, the
ance of set.
. great many
en apply for
ance of theB«

during the

ers on the

183C, when
was aban-

been the
of land since
lat time P

In what manner were these fees appropriated ?

A sum varying from £2 IBs. Kd. upon grunts of land from IfK) tn TiOO
acres to £5 lis., upon grantx of 1000 acrog was dittlrihutcd among the
different ollicers of government, connected with the land granting de-
partment.

These fees amounted to nearly one shilling an acre, so that tlic sys-
tem in fact was equivalent to a .sale of land at that priite f

It was.

Hut the (iovcmor in Council had absolute discrotion ns to the imlivu
dual to whom this sale should be made, the lorality in which his hiiuU
should be situated, and the quantity of land he should he allowi-d to olt-
tain '!

Yet, be bad.

Andof course this power might be orerci'^cd so as to maid' llu |)ur..
chase, (if it may be so termed,) of one individual very consiili:i.,hly more
advantogeous than that of another '/

It might ; the value of land depends so much upon locution thai this
must have been the case ?

Were there there any complaints that this power was employed to give
an unfair preference to individuals ?

I have heard s'lch complaints, but since I huve been in the ofhce 1 am
satisfied there huve not been any just grounds for them.

How long did this table of fees continue in force ?

U|> to the 5th January, I8IU.

How much land was granted between 1804 and \H\\) ?

g^^An answer to this will be furnished hereafter.

How much of this was granted subject to the payment of fccH, and liow
muftli to privileged persons ?

I have no means of ascertaining without a reference to returns ol every
description in the ottice, amounting fully to 50,000.

There has then been no separate entry of grants to diff'erint classes,
nor any index by which these grants might at once be rct'errL'd to ?

No, there has not.

What was the scale of fees substituted in the beginning of 1818 for that
of 1804?

grant

of 100

acres

£5 14

200

IG 17

i»

300

24 11

400

32 5

«*

500

39 19

(«

600

47 13

700

55 7

<«

800

63 2

900

70 16

1000

78 10

««

1100

86 4

1200

93 18

or equivalent to about seventeen pence halfpenny per acre.
What exceptions were there to this scale of fees?
The same as those of 1804.
How long did those remain in force ?
Till the 1st January, 1820.

I ■ -AA.

i m

9l ? ■: ■'

Whaticale of fees was then substituted in their place ?
By order of Council, Ist January, 1830, grants of 50 acres were gra-
tuitous.

On grants of 100 acres there was £12

20O

«l

300

400

500

125

««•.

600

150

»•,■-...

700

175

«»

800

SOO

««

900

225

(«

1000

250

,♦•>

1100

270

1200

300

These fees were payable by instalments, one.third on receiving a loca-
tion ticket, one-third on receiving the Attorney General's fiat, and one-
third on the descriptions issuing from the Surveyor General's Office.

How much of these fees was received by the Officers of the Crown ?

The same precisely as in 1804.

These fees then raised the price of land upon all tracts containing
more than 500 acres to five shillings an acre ?

Yes, they did.

The Governor in Council, however, had the same absolute pow er of
receiving or rejecting an application as formerly ?

Yes, he had.

What quantity of land was granted gratuitously in 50 acre lots I

About 40,000 acres.

How much land was granted subject to these fees ?

72,228 acres.

Were there no other means by which an individual might acquire land
besides those which you have mentioned, such for instance, as by pur.
chase from the Indians ?

There have been many purchases made from the Indians, but it \va«
necessary that the purchase should receive the confirmation of the Home
Government before the titles issued.

Have not very large tracts of land been acquired in this manner 1

Yes.

Will you mention some ?

The township of Woolrich, containing upwards of 80,000 acres acquir-
ed by Mr. Wallace, and by him sold immediately to Colonel Pilkington,
who commanded the Engineers in this Province, the township of Dum-
fries, containing upwards of 94,000 acres, granted to Mr. Stedman, and
by him sold to the Honble. W. Dixon, Member of the Legislative Coun.
cil. The township of Nichol contains 28,500, acquired by the Honble.
Thomas Clark, Legislative Councillor. The township of Waterloo, con-
taining upwards of 94,000 acres, acquired by Richard Beasly, and two
others.

Was not Mr. Beasly Speaker of the House of Assembly at the time
the township was acquired in this manner ?

Yes I believe he was.

Were tlien any other townships acquired in this manner ?

A block of 30.800 acres was acquired by Mr. William Jervis, Provincial
Secretary, and a block of 19,000 acres by John Dogstedder and

were gra-

ivitig a loca-
t, and one-
s Office,
e Crown ?

I containing

ie pow er of
lots f

acquire land
as by pur.

but it wan
of llic Home

inner 1

acres acquir-
Pilkington,
ip of Dum-
edman, and
ative Coun.
the Honble.
aterloo, con-
ly, and two

at the time

5, Provincial
tedder and

Benjamin Candy ,these are all that I ean number at present.

Were any of these individuals agents for the Indians at or prior to the
time of obtaining these grants ?

No they were not.

When Indian land has been acquired by the government, what has
been the practice with regard to the claims of individuals who had acquir-
ed rights under the Indians ?

It has been the practice of government to confirm such rights to a
reasonable extent.

Has much land been acquired in this manner by individuals ?

No not a great deal, with the exception of the townships already
mentioned, which contain in the whole 352,000 acres.

Do you know what consideration the Indians received for these grants ?

No I do not.

All of them however were sanctioned by the Home Government ?

Yes.

Upon representation from the government here ?

I do not know how that would be, but I presume it was.

And Members of the Legislative Council or of the government were
directly or indirectly concerned in every grant ?

Yes they were.

In 1826 the system of granting land subject to the payment of fees was
succeeded by a system of sale at auction ; what have been the duties of
the Surveyor General with regard to the land sold under the instructions
by which this system was introduced ?

We receive a certificate of sale from the Commissioner of Crown
Lands, for all lands sold upon which the purchase money has been paid ;
upon receiving this a description of the patent issues.

So that the office of the Surveyor General contains no record of any
afties of land, excepting those upon which the whole of the purchase
money lias been paid ?

It does not.

And as the Crown Land is to be sold by instalments, you have no
record of the sale till four years after the pale is made ?

No except in those cases where the perchaser may find it convenient to
pay the instalments before they are due.

So that the Surveyor General's office cannot furnish to any individual a
correct statement ?

It can, except in respect of such lands as are returned to the Commis-
sioner of Crown Lands as appropriated for sale.

Is it then the case that portions of the Province are open for settlement,
and not open for purchase?

No this is not the case. If any individual should apply to the Sur-
veyor General's office, wishing to purchase a lot which is open for loca-
tion, that lot is immediately returned to the Commissioner of Crown
Lands for sale.

After a particular lot has been so returned for sale, it has to be adver-
tised and put up to auction, so that the individual applying for it is ex.
posed to delay and incurs the risk of being overbid ?

That relates to the Commissioner of Crown Lands office, with whose
regulations I am not acquainted.

W!iy is not all the land open for location returned to the Commissioner
of Crown Lands for sale ?

iiccause a number of claims for locations remain in this oflSce unsatis-

•} -if

^ 1

■', Ml"

fied, which require that the land should Le retained in the office to satisfy
them.

Would it not greatly simplify proceedings of the Land Department, and
facilitate the acquisition of land by persons desirous to settle on it, if all
lots open for disposal were returned to the Commissioner of Crown Lands
for sale, and such as were actually located, marked oiTin ths same manner
as those which have been sold ?

In the present case the Commissioner of Crown Lands has to refer to
this office for lots required for sale, in that which you have suggested, wc
should be required to apply to him for lots required for location. I do nut
see that public business would be facilitated by the change.

It is however absolutely at the discretion of the Surveyor General (o
decide what lands shall be open for location, and what shall be open for
sale?

Not without the sanction of the Governor.

I presume however that the Governor acts upon the recommendation
of the Surveyor General ?

That I cannot say.

How much land has been certified to the Surveyor General's ollicc as
being sold by the Commissioner of Crown Lands ? (No answer.)

Does this include all the land which has been disposed of through (ho
Commissioner of Crown Lands, and for which descriptions have issued ?

No it does not. The grants to officers of the army and navy, under lh(;
orders from (he Horse Guards and Admiralty, or rather (he lands in
respect of which a remission of purchase money is allowed for that, in
the form in which the grant is made, are not included in this return.

What is the amount of land thus disposed of?

I will ftirnish a return of this.

All other methods of disposing of the waste land of (he crown tlian
those of sale or by a remission or purchase money, are under tliu su, r_
intendcnce of the Surveyor General ?

They are ?

What other methods of disposing of waste land are still in force ?

Grants to sons and daughters of U. E. loyalists, to discharged soldiers
and orders for grants of land under the authority of the Executive
Council to emigrants and others yet unlocatedand which remain unlocated
because no time was limited in the order within which the individual in
Avhose favour it was made was bound to locate it.

Have any of these orders been made since the establishment of the
system of sale by the treasury orders 1825 1

None except to the U. E. loyalists and discharged soldiers and sailors.

Then all unlocated Orders in favour of emigrants must be of 13 years
standing ?

Yes since 1825.

Arc there many of these orders still unlocated ?

Yes thsre are.

Can you state how much land would be required to satisfy them ?

I will furnish a return of the amount.

What were the grants to discharged soldiers and sailors '(

Up to 1830 any soldier or sailor producing his discharge and a
certificate of character was entitled to a grant of one hundred acre;:; of land.
This practice has been put an end to except in respect of holdiers who
have served in the country who are still considered entitled to the
grant.

* ■

ce to satisfy

rtment, and
on it, if all
rown Lands
tme manner

to refer to
;gested, \vc
. I do not

General (o
be o|>cri for

imendatiou

's olFicc us

)

!irou<>'h the
e issued ?
, under iIk;

lie lands in
sr (liitt, in
'turn.

own than

he sii, r_

ce ?

soldiers
Ixecutive
in located
ividualin

nt of the

sailors.
13 years

!in ?

and a

of land.

eis who

to the

Under what authority are grants to these soldiers continued ?

I believe that they were excepted from the instructions received from
the Home Government by which the general practice was stopped.

How much land has been patented to all these different classes of indi-
vid uals since 1825 f

I cannot state positively from memory, but I believe about two millions,
exclusive of the Canada company. And the quantity for which patents
have issued, sold by the Commissioner of crown lands, is rather more
than 50,000 acres. '

So that the quantity disposed of by free grant since the system of
selling was introduced is nearly forty fold greater than bv sale '(

It is.

With regard to the grants to the sons and daughters of the U.E. loyalists
were any large proportion of these settled by the grantees ?

No, by far the largest proportion was sold to speculators.

Were any extensive purchases of these rights made by particular
individuals?

I know of one case, that of thcHonble. Robert Hamilton, inwhicii the
rights to these grants to the amount of about 100,000 acres, were purchased
and there are several others of from 20 to 50,000,

Mr. Hamilton was a member of the Legislative Council, was he not ?

Yes he was.

Were these other large purchases connected with the Government
in any way 1

There were two Chief Justices, ElmsUe and Powell, the Solicitor General
Gray, and several members of the Executive and Legislative Council, as
well as members of the House of Assembly, who were very large
purchasers.

And it is not, I suppose, too much to presume that these individuals
were able to obtain more favorable localities for their grants than a
])rivate individual could have hoped for ?

1 do not think there was any partiality shewn them in the selection of
of lots, but they necessarily had greater facilities.

What was the general price of these grants ?

From a gallon of rum up to perhaps £6.

So that while millions of acres were granted in this way, the settlement
of the Province was not advanced, nor the advantage of the grantee
secured in the manner that we may suppose to have been contemplated
by Government ?

No they were not.

Has this acquisition of land in large tracts by individuals operated
unfavorably upon the advancement of the Province ?

It certainly has retarded the settlement of the Province. Land has
been locked up by these proprietors who have done nothing to improve the
value of their lands or to facilitate thMr settlement, I am only aware of
one exception to this, the Honble. John Elmslie, who has expended large
sums in improving his purchases. The remainder have allowed their
purchases to remain waste until the rise of value produced by settlement
in their neighbourhood has tempted them to sell, or have sold them to
other speculators who have allowed them thus to remain.

Have the disbanded soldiers and sailors generally settled upon their
lands ?

Generally they have for a while.

' i\

J-

■ 7^

i'l

i I',

i ^*

10 .

Have they then subsequently abandoned their settlements ?
I have no means of knowing it officially, but I have no reason to doubl
that the majority have remained upon their land just long enough tn
enable them to get their deed, which they might obtain upon prool
of a residence for three years, and then sold it for a very irifling con-
sideration.

What number ol acres are under location that is as I understand granted,
but not patented ?

Lands that are not under patent are not subject to the tax upon wild
land ; are they ?
No they are not.

Supposing therefore an individual who has drawn land, or obtained a
location, felt confident of obtaining bis patent from (Jovernment whenever
he applied for it ; it would be for his interest not to apply for the patent
until he had an opportunity of selling the land, or was desirous of
settling on it ?

Yes, he would escape the wild land tax.

And in practice, I suppose, that every invidual who has thus drawn land,
is quite sure of obtaining his patent when he applies for it ?

Yes I have never known Government refuse a patent to a locatee.
"What is the amount of the wild land tax to which these lands if now
under patent would be subject, and the number of acres thus situated ?
It is rather more than four shillings per annum for 200 acres.
To this extent, therefore, the Province has been (so to speak) defrauded
of the produce of the wild land lax ?

Yes, the tax has been evaded in this manner.

Could any person, not being a natural born subject, or naturalized,
obtain a grant of land in 'his Province ?

Such persons have occasionally obtained grants of land upon taking
the oath of allegiance, but since the passing of the Alien Bill, this is, I
believe, impossible.

How much land would be required to satisfy persons who are, or may
be, entitled to locations ?
About 500,000 acres.

What quantity of land is included in that portion of Upper Canada
which has been actually surveyed ?
Nearly 17,500,000 acres.

Hew much of this has been granted or appropriated ?
13,3OO,O00Ticres lijve been granted and disposed of to individuals,
and the Canada Company atifl public purposes ; 450,000 have been set
apart for roads; 318,000 have been appropriated to the Indians;
2,400,000 have been appropriated as Clergy Reserves, leaving about
1,500,000 open for disposal.

Of which one-third will be absorbed to satisfy claims for location
which may yet be urged ?
Yes.

And the romainder I presume is generally of an inferior character,
and in an unfavorable poi>ilion?
It is generally.

Have you any idea what proportion of the 13,300,000 acres granted
or disposed of is now actually occupied ?

I have no means of ascertaining accurately ; but from the knowledge
I have acquired by travelling ihrougiuhe country, I am inclined to be-
lieve a very small proportion.
The remainder of course is wild land — what effect has this mass of

i I

III''

on to doubt

; enotigli to

upon proof

rifling coii-

and granted,

X upon wild

r obtiiined a
nt whenever
)r the patent
desirous of

drawn land,

locatee.

lands if now

situated ?

res.

{) defrauded

naturalized,

ipon taking
Sill, this is, I

are, or may
per Canada

individuals,
vc been set
ic Indians ;
iving about

for location

r character,

res granted

knowledjre
nied to be-

this mass of

wilderness upon (he progress and wealth of the country, as uifecting tlic
means of communication and transport ?

Injurious in the highest degree ; nothing has more tended to retard
the settlement and prosperity of the country than this circumstance.

For what public purposes have lands been received, other than tlu>
benefit of the Clergy ?

There have been reserves for schools amounting criginally to 500,000
acres. A part of this, amounting to 206,000 sicrcs, has been appropriated
to the support of the University of King's College.

Under whose management are the iandsappropriated toKiiig'n College ?

Of the Chancellor of the University and a Committee The wiiole of
the land has been patented to thorn. The University did not obtain the
school lan;ls, butan equal amount of the n>o?t valuable Crown Reserves,
in exchange for the IcisS valuable school lands. Tiiese school land.-* used
to be nnder the management of a board of education, but I do not know
that there is any sncli body now.

How much of the school reserves have been patented ?

Avery trifling quantity, but I will furnish u precise return.

Of what value generally are those which remain ungrantcd ?

They will average, I should suppose, aliout 10s. per acre.

And as upwards of two hundred thoiisiand still rcinaiii to b(^ disposed
of. this would produce about £100,000 ?

It would.

Lands have been appropriated as Crown Reserves — is this praclici;
still continued ?

Crown Reserves are still marked upon the diagram, and arc not open
for location unless specially ordered by the Governor ; but they arc open
to sale in the same manner as other Crown Lands.

As regards persons untitled to grants, howaver, they are still actual
Crown Reserves ?

They are.

What has been the practice pursed with regard to the laying out of
towns, and the general disposal of town lots.'

Whenever the Surveyor General on the report of a Deputy Si:rvcynr,
imagines that a locality is advantageously situated for tiic building of a
town, the site is submitted to the Lieutenant Governor as fit for a town,
and in general a reservation is made for a site. The block thus reserved
is divided into acre, half-acre, and quarter-acre lots, r.ccordin-x to its ap-
parent value, or the probability of a great demand of the lots for building
purposes, and these lots have been heretofore granted subject to the pay-
ment of fees, and on condition of creclino- a biiildingon the lot within a
specified period. They were granted inuiscriniinately at the discretion
of the Executive Council, to any |)erson who was willing to fulfil ilic con-
ditions imposed.

So it might happen that the whole of a town might be granted away
within a short time of its reservation .''

Yes.

Though it must be known that only a small part of those who re-
ceived those grants could actually settle in the town ?

Ido not know how that was ; but if the conditions of the grant were
complied with, that was uU the government required.

Has it not happened from this practice of granting in the first instance,
that there arc towns, the whole of which is owned by individuals, but a
small proportion of which is built upon?

! »■

■ 'I

• : »:

;-3

iift

■ 'f

!lf

^.1

Vi,:

There must have heen buildings orginally, but they may have been
pulled down or allowed to fall into decay.

What practice has been pursued in laying out the Clergy Reserves '?
Before the townships were surveyed, the diagram was furnished to the
Surveyor, with the Clergy Reserves in every seventh lot marked on it, '
and on his return of survey these lots were appropriated as Clergy Re..
serves.

By the Constitutional Act it was directed " that whenever any grants
of land shall be made by the Crown, there shall at the same time be mad*.
in respect of the same, a proportionable allotment for the support of the
Clegy ;" under what authority are the appropriations you have described,
made before any grant has been made to private individuals ?
Under authority of an order in Council, 27lh June, 1795,
By the patent which issues upon every grant of land, has there not
been a 8[)ecincation of the land set apart for the support of a protestant
clergy, in resi)ect of such granla ?
Yes there has.

What proportion of land has been epecilied ?

A quantity equal to one-seventh of the lan(f granted, or fourteen two-
sevenths acres for every 100 acres.

But as one-seventh of the whole land comprised in a township, i>
equal lo one-sixth of the land remaining to be granted after this reserve
has been made, it would follow therefore, that in every township there
must be a portion of the land going under the name of clergy reserves,
which is not specified as such in any patent?

It would have been the case if reserves iiad been made regularly from
the commencement.
Have not such reserves been madercgiiljiriy ?
Not in the early settlement of the Province.

By a statement which you have furnished to this Commission, it ap-
pears that among the surveyed lands of the Province, there are about
700,000 acres described as Indian Lands, and which therefore have not
yet been granted by the crown ; has any reserve been made for the clergy
ill respect of these lands ?

Yes there has been the usual quantity of l«nd set apart as clergy re-
serves in respectof these l-inds.

Under what authority have these reserves been made ?
The reserve was made in anticipation of the land being granted.
So that upwards of 100,000 acres have been withheld tronj settlement,
because the Surveyor General choose lo imagine that at some time or
other the crown would grant land which did not belong lo it?

This reserve was not made by the Surveyor General at his discretion ;
but on the authority of a special order of the Governor in Council,
founded on a representation of the then Attorney General, and the
greater part of it has been specified since the Indian lands, in respect of
which the reserve was made, have been patented to individuals.

By the same statement furnished to this commission, it appears that
the surveyed land amounts to nearly 17,000,000 acres, the land appro-
priated as clergy reserves, to about 2,400,000 acres, being about one-
seventh of the whole surveyed land ; supposing the plan which you have
described of reserving land equal to one-seventh of the grant pursued in
respect of the whole surveyed land, there would be a surplus, would there
not, of upwards of 300,000 acres not specified in any patent ?

lay have bctn

leserves '?
nished to tlu'
marked on it, '
Clergy Re..

!r any grants
time be madi
upport of Ihf
ive described.

as there not
' a protestant

ourtcen two-

i township, i>
r this reserve
jwnship there
;rgy reserves,

?gularly from

lission, it ap-

lere are about

lure have not

r the clergy

as clergy re-

ranted,
in settlement,
ome time or
it .'
is discretion ;

n Council,
ral, and the
in respect of
als.
appears that

land appro-

about one
ich you have
nt pursued in

would there

If all the lands were under patent and specification taken, there
would be a large surplus not required for any specification, owing to
the r"^<conception of reserving one-seventh instead of one-eighth.

And there must be a proportionate surplus in every township in
which a reserve of one-seventh has been made in laying it out, accord-
ing to what you term the checquered diagram system f

Yes there would be.

How many townships have been so laid out ?

About two hundred, comprising about 13,000,000 acres.

Nearly the whole of the land which has been disposed of by the
Crown ?
Nearly the whole of the land fit for cultivation.

So that the surplus contemplated in my former question has actually
arisen in almost all the townships in the Province ?

In about two>thirds.

In what manner have the specifications for clergy reserves been
made ?

In the first instance only, six-sevenths of every lot of 200 acres, or
171 three-sevenths acres were specified, leaving 28 four-sevenths of each
lot not contained in any specification ; latterly the seven-sevenths of each
lot has been taken out, and one-seventh of the lots set apart for the
clergy reserves, in each township, has been omitted from specification.

Will you state in what townships these separate systems have been
pursued ?

No such answer as you require me to make can be made, because in
many of the townships in which the former system was originally pur-
sued, a portion of the land remained ungranted, when the latter system
was introduced ; thus both systems have been introduced into the same
township.

So that it would be absolutely impossible to separate the specified and
unspecified portions of what is called the Clergy Reserve through-
out the Province ?

It is obviously impossible in those cases in which parts only of par-
ticular lots were specified according to the first system described ; one-
seventh of those lots which have not been taken in specification can be
ascertained but not in any particular part of the lot.

How many acres of clergy reserve have been described for patent ?

Nearly 74,000 acres.

Howmuchof this has been specified as clergy reserves in patents or
grants of lands ?

I cannot say, as some lots are taken in whole and others are as yet
in part.

Are you aware whether any lots have been sold, no part of which has
been specified in any patent P

I do not know whether or not there has been such sale, the whole of
the clergy reserves having been returned to the Commissioner of Crown
Lands for sale, and (liis nfficc having only a record of those upon which
the whole purchase money has been paid.

Such however may havo been the case ?

Yes.

And many lots have boon veturned from this oflice to the Comniis-
•ioner of Crown Lauds no part of which has been specified?

Therchave.

i '■■■I

•.

p r.

t' '

\Vu9 there not i

(1e with the Liiird ofMcNab, tor

14 ) :

ecial agreement
the Rcttlcmcnt of the township of McNab ?

There was, hy an order in Council, dated Nov. 5th lS2'.i.

What was the nature of tliat agreement ?

It was that a towaahip should be set apart on the Ottawa, for the
purpose of being placed under h' i superintendence ; that it should re-
main under his sole direction for eighteen months ; that patents might
issue to any ofthe settlers of the township on his certificate, stating that
settlement duties were performed, and his claims pn the settler adjusted ;
or that patents mi<;ht issue to him in trust for any number of settlers —
that a grant of ],'iOO acres was to be assigned to him to be increased to
5()00 acres, on his completing the settlement of the township.

lias the settlement of the township been completed ?

No it has not.

The full grant of 5000 acrej has however been made to the Laird of
McNub, has it not ?

The order of the Governor in Council for the grant is lodged in this
ofllice, but no description for patents has issued.

Why is that t

The selection of the lots that he made, were those on which he hud
placed settlers, who I understood had made considerable improvements,
and I did not feel myself at liberty to issue descriptions, and I accord-
ingly referred it back to the Executive Council. His second petition
that a description for those particular lots may issue for patent is now
before the Executive Council.

The clfect of granting his petition, would be to place those settlers
completely in his power ?

Yes it would.

By an order in Council this township was to be placed at his disposi-
tion for eighteen months: has there been any order in Council extend-
ing this period ?

lam not aware that there has been.

The settlement however ofthe township is still under his sole direc-
tion, is it not ?

Yes it is

Has not the settlement of a very extensive tract of country been
placed under the sole superintendence of Colonel Talbot ?

Yes it was.

On what terms.

At first Colonel Talbot was entitled to receive 150 acres for every
individual whom he should have settled on 50 acres of land ; under this
system he acquired the number of acres I have mentioned. Under this
arrangement he settled 240 families; since 1821 this arrangement has
been discontinued, hut the exclusive superintendence of this large tract
is still in his hands, but he performs the duties of superintendent with-
out receiving any grant of land as remuneration.

He may however. I presume, make any arrangement he pleases with
the persons he settles on the land, as to the surrender of a portion of
the grant made to them P

He may, but I do not think he does, I have not heard any statement
of the sort.

Has be then no remuneration for his labour ?

Not that I am awurc of.

ilcNab, for

ira, for the
should re-
cnts might
ilatiiigthat
r adjusted ;
if settler!) —
ncreased to

P-

he Laird of
dged ill this

ich he hud
provcments,
i I accord-
Diid petition
tent is now

liose settlers

his disposi-
ncil cxtend-

sole direc-
>uiitrv been

;s for every
under this

Under this
;ement has
large tract

dent with-

ileascs with
portion of

ly statement

Not a pension of jC.'JOO a jKar ?

lie has a pension, liut 1 do not know for what services it was grant*
cd him.

How much of this land is settled ?

I understand from him that he has settled nearly tho whole of it.

What quantity of land was sold by Government to the Canada Land
Company, and what were llio terms of sale P

The company at first contracted for the purchase of 1,384,413 acres
of Crown reserves, and 829,430 of Clergy reserves, at 3s. Gd. per acre.
The government were however unable to perform their contract, so far
as related to the Clergy reserves, and us a substitute, the Company
were allowed to select 1 1,000,000 acres in a block on the shores of Lake
Huron, at the same price, for the whole, as was to be paid for 800,000
acres. Clergy reserves, making the whole purchase '2,484,413 acres.
The purchase money was to be paid in the following annual instal-
ments, viz :

In the year ending in July, 1827, £20,000

1828, 15,000

18^29, 15,000

1830, 15,000

1831, 16,000

1832, 17.000

1833, 18.000

1834, 19.000

1835, 20.000

and i^20.000 a year for the next seven years. The Company was to be
at liberty to expend Is. 3d. part of the purchase money of the block of
11.000.000 acres in public works and improvements, within such block
of land, such as canals, bridges, roads, chaudres, wharves and school
houses, &c.

Has there been any obligation on the Company to take out patents
for their lands at any particular time ?

No not until the expiration of the time allowed for the payment of
the whole purchase money.

How much land has been disposed of to the Canada Company ?

What is the extent of the establishment of the Surveyor General's
office ?

A Surveyor General — salary £600. This place is at present occupied
by Mr. Sullivan who receives no salary.

Chief Clerk, £300

Draftsman, 300

Second Clerk, 200

Three Clerks, 175 each.

What is the state of the surveys throughout the Province generally ?

Generally speaking, they are very inaccurate. This inaccuracy was
produced in the first instance from the deficiency of competent persons,
and the carlessness with which the surveys were conducted* Latterly
the practice introduced by Sir Peregrine Maitland, in spite of the re-
sults being pointed out by the then Surveyor General, of letting out
the surveys to any person who was willing to contract for them at a
certain quantity of land, produced extreme carelessness and inaccuracy.

The Surveyor just hurried through the township, and of course made
surveys which on the ground are found to be very inaccurate.

.^1

;■■■■•, ^i'fr-^Vi

! 8

f! i*

Ifi

Tuhucli an extent p^bably that in some lownslii|)!i ncaiculy a singlo
lot is of the dimensions or positions actually assigneil to it on the (ha-
Kfam 1

Tlicrc arc instances uf this Rort.

The consequences of lliis have, I suppose been confusion and uncer-
tainty in the possession of almost every miin, and no small amount of
litigation ?

Such has been the case. Last Session an Act was passed, authorii-
iiig the Governor (o appoint Commissioners, with power to scltio disput-
ed boundaries, which will I hope remedy the inconveniences arising
from this source.

Arc there not considerable arrears of business in the office of the Sur.
vcyor General ?

There arc a number of entries in the books, such as fiold notes, com.
missioncrs's reports, &c. &c. which require to be made ; but the current
busiiicHSi of the office is not in arrcar. For the last nine years however,
the office has not had its full establishment. I have bcui required to
perfurni the duties of Surveyor General as well as of Chief Clerk, instead
of being left to the latter (iutirs only, and there has been no eifectual
superintendence in the office, owing to the same cause, except during the
/illeen months, Mr. Chewctt was acting Surveyor General. The office is
in (he same condition at the present time as the present Surveyor Gene-
ral has other duties to perform which occupy the whole of his tinn.-.

■ I'li

A 3

a single
) tlic (ll)l-

ltd iincc'i-
.nioiiiit of

, autlioris-
llo disput-
:cs arisilng

of tJjc Siir-

otcs, com-
,lic current
rs however,
cquircd lo
irk, iiistciul
lo cir<!CtuaI

during the
"•he office is
cyor Genc-

tiuiL*.

Richard Hill Thornhill, Ksq. ChiofClerk iu the Crown Land* OHice.

What nro Iho duties of Iho Crown Land* Office ?

Tho Conimiaisioner of Crown Lands has ihu Hupcrintcndcnco of tlic lale
und maruigoment of iho Crown Lands of iho Province.

Are lUero any otiicr duties performed by the Commissioner of Crown
Lands ?

Yes the duties upon timber throughout tho Province arc collected and
accounted for by the commissioner of crown lands as Surveyor General
of Wood« and fotala, and the nolo und niunat^unioni of clerg^y rcscrvcM,
re, under tho control of tho t-ommiHRioiiur of crown lands as aufent for
ilic'sale of clergy reserves.

How long has this office existed ?

Mr. Robinson, the former commissioner, was I believe npiioinlcd tolliis
office in 1827, but did not enter upon the duty of his office till A|)ril 182S.

Were the three offices created at the same lime ?

Yes nearly so.

And vested in the same individual ?

Yes.

Were there separate salaries for the three offices ?

Yes.

What was their amount ?

The Commissioner of Crown Lands £500 sterling, Surveyor General
of Woods and Forests £500 sterling, and by an order in Council, as
agent for the clergy reserves, £500 currency. The present commis-
sioner of crown lands £500 sterling, ns such commissioner, and £500
currency as agent for the sale of clergy reserves, and he performs the
duties of Surveyor General of Woods and Forests without salary.

By whom were tlie duties now discharged by the holder of these three
ofliices previously performed i

The duties can hardly be said to have had any existence previously.
All crown land was previously disposed of by grant, and the whole of
this business was managed then, as now, by the Surveyor General. I
believe the management of the clergy reserves was previously under the
control of a corporation — but these reserves could not be sold.

How long have you held your present office ?

I have been Chief Clerk since 1836, but have been in the office since
November, 1828, and performed the duties of chief clerk, for some
yearsi previously to receiving that appointment.

Of what does the property of the crown under the control of the com*
missioner of crown lands consist ?

Such portion of the vacant and ungranlcd lands of the crown as arc
from time to time returned by the Surveyor General, as open for sale,
together with such of the crown reserves surveyed since 1824, or not
made over to the Canada Company, as are similarly returned.

How much has been returned in this manner to the commissioner of
crown lands ?

About 300,000 acres.

Of this how much has been sold ?

100,317 acres.

Were there not regulations in force for the sale of crown lands, pre-
vious to 1828, when the office for commissioner of crown lands was
established ?

i-ryt

r;i

r
■>

'i ■

1
1]

I understand (here were.

Do you know ifany ■alei of land take place under llieie regulations t

I do not.

By what regulations has the commlsiioner of crown lands been regu-
lated in the discharge of hii duties ?

By instructions issued to Mr. Robinson, the commissioner of crown
lands by the Lords of (he Treasury, dated 18th July, 1827, a copy of
which I beg to hand in.

But have (here not been regula(ions subsequently issued by the Colonial
Office for the sale and management of (he Crown lands of (he Province ?

Yes, in 1831, and subsequently.

Have (hese reguladons been ac(cd on P

To a cer(ain ex(ent, I believe, (hey have.

To what ex(en( ?

To the ex(ent of abstaining from the sale of Crown Lands, otherwise
than by public auction, except under the sanction of a special order of
Council, of selling to emigrants according to the regulations of 1830,
which allowed three years for (he payment of (he firB( in8(almen( under
pardcular circumstances.

I perceive by (he instructions (o Mr. Robinson which you have put in
(hat (he Commissioner of Crown Lands is directed to ascertain " (he
nature and pardculars of all the Crown property within the Province,
under the following heads : — Waste Lands in those districts of the colony
which have not heretofore been surveyed or laid out ; Waste Lands in
(hose districts of (he colony which have been surveyed nnd laid ou(, but
no par( of which has been granted ; ungran(ed lands and Crown Reserves
in those districts where grants have been made ; lands which have been
granted in perpetuity upon payment of quit or other rents ; lands and
reserves which have been granted upon leasos for series of years, upon
reserved rents or otherwise.; " — have these instructions been fully com-
plied with ?

They have not been fully complied with.

The Commissioner is also required by the same instmctions " to sub-
mit to the Governor or Ofticcr administering the Government, u report
of the total quantity of each description of Crown property, within each
district of the reserve, so lar as he may tlien have ascertained the same,
together with his opinion of the quality of each description ol property,
which it may be expedient to otter for sale in the ensuing year;" — has
this part of the instructions been complied with ?

No, it has not.

What part of the instructions has then been acted on ?

Except in the particulars referred to in the previous questions, they
have been acted upon, except in cases where a departure from them has
been sanctioned by the Governor, whose order under the same instruc-
tions the Commissioner is bound to obey.

The two particulars then in which these instructions have not been
acted upon, appear to be, that the Commissioner of Crown lands has
never obtained a return of all the ungranted lands within the colony, and
consequently has never reported the same to the Governor ]

I wish to say in answer to this question that partial returns have been
obtained from the Surveyor General's Office, of such townships and lands
as appear likely to be sought after.

;ulationt 1

been regu-

ir of crown
, a copy of

the Colonial
Province ?

, otherwiBe
sial order of
IS of 1830,
Iment under

ave put in
ertain " the
B Province,
' the colony
! Lands in
aid out, hut
rvn Reserves
have been
lands and
years, upon
fully com-

to suh-

it, a report

ithin each

the same,

property,

;ar ;" — has

lions, they
them has
pe instruc-

not been
lands has
olony, and

have been
and lands

Dut the quantity of surveyed and ungranted land^ is l,.')00,000 acres,
while the whole amount returned to the Commissioner of Crown Lands
ai open for sale, amounts only to about 300,000 acres ?

Yes, but returns were called for by the present Commissioner of
Crown Lands, immediately upon his appointment in 1836, of the quantity
of land located upon which the conditions of settlement have not been
performed, and which would, therefore, have reverted to the crown, Cut
this return has not yet been furnished ; these lands would form most,
probably the most valuable part of the property of the crown.

But as the present Commissioner of Crown Lands is also Surveyor Ge-
neral, he is calling upon himself for this return, is he not ?

The present Commissioner of Crown Lands only received the appoint-
ment of Surveyor General on the 20th June, 1838.

By the instructions to Mr. Robinson, it appears that the sale and
management of Crown Lands in the Province was placed under his con-
trol as Commissioner of Crown Lands; it would seem, however, from your
answers, that he had never been Commissioner of Crown Lands, nor as-
sumed the management of uu;.e t')p.\ the 300,000 acres returned to him
by the Surveyor Gen^iral 1

No, lii, did n . • ai'iUMc 'Jw contra of locations of lands remaining un-
returned by 111*. >urve,'jr Oenc-ii, except that as Surveyor General of
the Woods and Forest.* he ^ol ] ihe right to cut timber on them.

But this had nOi!iii\|i!, to do with the dispo*.^'.', of the land '?

No, it had not.

So that in fact tin, quanii' %' anc'. j-ituri on f f the land to be put up to sale
was determin'icl not hy i lie Commisiiii r. ■: ul ^.'rown Lnr a;.;, and by the
Governor. .13 ^'irLfitud by t*iH€fc insf.ru ;tioi!s, but by '.Ik.' KSurveyor Gene-
ral ?

The Surveyor General n^'..' made ;;r';r ifchirr.^, ;rileS3 i*per:iically called
on so to do, and' therefore !.hr. ,y;t alien lAid n^mr.'.ity of i'l-'d ?o be put wp
to sale was determltied by ihfi CfjnwLiiisiouer oi Crovn I a .'U., l>y whom
these returns wrre calK'd fo;;.

Why then did not the Couiniissi .)fi<?r of Crowo Lar.d- '.■'..' for a return
of the whole 1

I cannot say,

But the manaj;en?eiit of r.U lands, not inclmlod in these returns, re-
mained in the hnnda ol the Sur'-'eyor Genei V., i^ho rri^vht at any time
appropriate the mosi. vu!u.a'ilij portioiiR to iiidniduais trntitled to free
grants of land ?

The control of land not having bwi asiU'iicd jj t'-e Commissioner of
Crown Lands, the Surveyor General was i\'. lib-riy to locate them to such
persons having orderj for free i^rants of l.in.' i\- he thought fit.

What have been the proccdjii,"^? of thr. Commissioner of Crown Lands
in respect of the !.ind so rcturrveti to him ?

Agents hrv* be;r) PTDiinfcd throughout the Province, to carry the pub-
lic sales into rifiV.ct ; 7 Ikm c sa!.^ jf v.aste land took place, notice thereof was
given in the O.'^Icial Gav.otte, and other papers published in the Province.
The pur',!, us'-k." ^a nr.y spth sale was required to pay the first instalment
of ciie-4. larter iv^to the office, before he received authority from the office,
t'- ti lie possession of his land. The remainder of the purchase money
was required to be paid by three annual instalments, without interest, the
patent for such land not issuing until the full amount of purchase money
was paid to the Commissioner of Crown Lands.

"■ \\

I ■ '

'■i
li

mil

At what time were the first instalments required to be paid ?
It was required to be paid down.
That is at the time of the auction ?

It was required so to be paid, but was not so paid in all cases, tlic
sale was not considered to be completed until the payment of such in-
stalment.

What proportion do you suppose was paid at the time of auction ?

A very small proportion indeed ; in fact the auction sales were alto-
gether nominal in respect to a considerable number of lots. The per-
sons to whom these lots were knocked down never completed their
purchase by the payment of the instalment, such bidders however were
not considered as having any right to the lands.

How long a time was allowed to elapse in these cases before the land
was considered forfeited and put up to sale again ?

No definite time was fixed by the late commissioner who received the
money at his discretion at any distance of time in cases where he con-
sidered the parties entitled to such indulgence ; in some other cases it
was put up at the next sale, but there was no regularity in this
and it did not often happen. Autumn sales generally closed in the
month of November, and those of the spring began about May in the
ensuing year, and indulgence was always granted by the commissioner
for this interval.

But in the mean lime the person who had been prevented from pur-
chasing, by being outbid by one of these nominal purchases at a former
sale, might have left the country, or have purchased land of private
individuals, or determined not to purchase land at all ?

It is possible such might be the case;

And in all cases the land was withheld from settlement daring the in-
terval between one sale and another ?

Yes it was>

In the year 1833, interest was required upon instalments after the first,
under what authority was this required ?

By authority from the Home Government.

Was this the only change introduced into the system of selling by these
instructions ?

It was the only alteration made in this office.

Then the period at which instalments were payable was not altered in
any respect ?

Not in any.

Have any steps been taken to prevent the occurrence of inconveniences
such as you describe arising from the practice of not requiring the instal-
ment to be paid down ?

Yes upon the appointment of the present commissioner of crown lands,
Mr. Sullivan, persons bidding for lands at public auction, were required
to pay the instalments into this office within fourteen days from the day
of sale, and agents were required to render to this office a return of the
land sold at each sale, as soon as the sale was closed. At the expiration
of the period of fourteen days, returns were forwarded to the agent in the
different districts, of the persons who had complied with this condition,
and the agents are directed to offer all lots not included in this return,
for sale at the next monthly sale. It having also appeared to the present
commissioner, that in certain cases persons not intending to become pur-
chasers, were in the habit of bidding up lots in opposition to individuals
having the means and intention of paying for the land, and bringing set-

the land

tiers thereon ; the agent was instructed to require paynnent of the first
instalment of the purchase money on the spot, in cases which appeared
to him to require such proceedings, and in default thereof the lot was to
be put up again, and the bid of that person not received, which precludes
the possibility of a bonii fide purchaser being di-jappointed in his attempt
to obtain land for settlement. Mr. Sullivan also caused circulars to be
prepared, giving notice to persons in arrear, that they would be called
upon to pay up the amounts due from them, but he did not issue it, as
nothing of the sort had been done by his predecessors, and he was aware
thut the people of the country were in expectation of some favorable
change in the land granting department.

But under the former system, lands in respect of which the first instal-
ment had not been paid before the next sale, were in some cases put up
again at that sale. Does the present change therefore efTect an improve-
ment, in many cases except those in which the agent may imagine that
the bidder has no intention of completing the purchase?

Yes it does, sales were not always made at monthly intervals, and
persons who bid off lands were in the habit of considering that they had
a claim to such lands ; the agents too in most cases did not make imme>
diate returns of the sales, and therefore the further dealing with the par-
ties bidding off was placed in the power of the commissioner, but was
kept to a great extent in the hands of the agent, nor was any day fixed
•within the month, after which the instalinent"could not be received, all
these sources of irregularity are now put an end to.

Why do you return to the agent the number of those who have com-
plied with the conditions of sale by the payment of the purcha-^e money ?

Because it is so much easier, their number being so much smaller.

What proportion of the purchase of Crown lots are now in arrear ?

A very large p-^oportion.

What has been the proportion of Crown Lands sold in each year, since
the establishment of this ofKce ?

I beg leave to refer to a return furnished from this office on the sub.
ject.

Has any part of this land been sold by private contract ?

Yes, a small portion of it has been sold under special instructions from
the Governor, in cases where it was imagined that the individuals had a
right of preemption, owing to their having improved a i)art of the lot, or
incasesof broken lots lying between their farms and water, or a public
road, or in other cases which appeared to the Governor to require a devi-
ation from the usual course, and also under the regulations of 1831, to
indigent settlers recently arrived in the colony.

How much lund has been disposed of in this way ?

I am unable to answer this question, as there has been no distinction
made in the books of the office between sales by private contract, and
Bales by public auction.

What proportion of the 100,000 acres sold by the Commissioner of
Crown Lands should you suppose has been dis|)osed of in this manner ?

Possibly about a tenth.

The remainder has been sold by public auction ?

Yes.

Supposing an individual to arrive from England at the present time,
desirous of purchasing land, what would be his opportunities of selection.
Would he be confined to the land returned to you by the Surveyor Gene-

\i3A

'';. <

ral, or would he have choice among all the uBgranted lands of the
Crown ?

He would be confined to the lots named in the hand.bilt3 issued by
this department, and which contain only such lands as are returned by
the Surveyor General, unless he happened to learn from friends already
settled in the country, that lots not included in these returns were vacant,
in which case, on application to this office, reeference is made to the Sur-
veyor General's OfHce, when if such lot prove to be vacant, a requisition
would be made that the same might be retuned to this department, when
the lot would be put up at the ensuing sale.

This proceeding must have involved considerable delay and trouble to
the emigrant ?

It unquestionably did, but cannot now be remedied until the returns
called for by the present Commissioner of Crown Lands are furnished.

But it would never have existed if the instructions of 1827 requiring
the Commissioner of Crown Lands to ascertain the nature and particulars
of all the crown property within the Province had been acted upon ?

Of course it would not ; this delay will however be avoided for tho
future, by the appointment of the Commissioner of Crown Lands to the
office of Surveyor General.

But even now after an emigrant has been at the trouble and expence
of ascertaining the advantages of any particular lot, he ia liable to be
over bid for it by a speculator who may be tempted to bid for the lot,
because he sees that a bona fide settler is desirous of purchasing it ?

This is the case, and it is one of the injurious effects of the system of
gelling by auction, which, in my opinion, has worked very disadvantage-
ously to the Province, and is not at all calculated to attract emigrants.

Has the system of selling by auction, any effect in increasing the aver*
age produce of Crown Lands i

I do not think more is obtained by auction, than would be obtained if
the lands were sold at a fair 6xed price, and in fact the system of auction
has a tendency to deter purchasers, and to diminish the actual revenue
derived from this source. I do not know of a single advantage obtained
from the system, which might not have been obtained equally by sale at
a kijown fixed price. The system of auction was probably introduced to
prevent favoritism, but this might equally have been secured by other
means.

And since the establishment of this system, considerably more than a
ten-fold quantity of land has been disposed of by free grant, to which oo
security against favoritism was attached ?

So I understand.

Are there any difficulties or delays in the way of obtaining patents for
lands for which all the instalments have been paid ?

I do not know that there are. A certificate is issued from the ofiice
of the Commissioner of Crown Lands, immediately upon the payment of
the last instalment, directed to the Surveyor General, upon which the
description issues to the Secretary of the Province, where the patent is
granted, it is then sent to the office of the Attorney General for the
signature of that officer, and is then ready for the signature of the Lieu-
tenant Governor, when the patent is ready for delivery.

How much time is occupied in all these processes t

It is quite uncertain ; I have known instances where the party re-
mained in Toronto, and went himself from otfice to ollicc, it has been
obtained in one or two days, but in other casei> it has remained for a week

lands of the

a issued by
returned by
mds already
were vacant,
3 to the Sur-
a requisition
ment, when

1 trouble to

the returns
urnished.
27 requiring
d particulars
upon ?
ided for the
L.ands to tb«

and expence
I liable to be
for the lot,
ngit?

e system of
isadvantage-
3t emigrants,
ig the aver-

obtainsd if
of auction
tual revenae
ge obtained
by sale at
Iroduced to
red by other

ore than a
to which no

patents for

the office
layment of
11 which the

patent ia
al for the
f the Lieu-

le party re-
has been
Tor a weelc

or a month, or perhaps more, {Recording to the business of the different
offices at the time.

With ordinary diligence might it be obtained in a week ?

Yes, generally.

In the return that has been given in from the Commissioner of Crown
Lands Office, the receipts on account of the sale of land, are stated at
£33,3JS, is this the amount that has been actually paid into the hands
oftlte Receiver General?

Nc i*^^ is the gross amout received.

To what deduction is this amount subject ?

To the salaries of agents and clerks, and necessary contingent dis-
bursements of the department.

Under what authority are these payments made out of these receipts ?

Under that of the instructions of the Lords of the Treasury, put ia, in
answer to a former question.

Then the whole of this amount, after deducting these items, has been
80 paid to the Receiver General ?

It has been in the case of Mr. Sullivan.

The whole of these sales of crown Lands since the appointment of the
commission has been made subject to payment bv instalment, has it not ?

Yes.

What has been the effect of this practice as regards the character and
means of those by whom purchases have been made ?

No doubt it had a bad effisct, inducing persons to purchase land with
far less capital and means of Improving it, than would have been the case,
had the whole amount of the purchase money been required to be paid
down, and it has induced persons to purchase whose means were so limit,
ed, as to leave them without the means of providing lor their families,
who have thus been exposed to the greatest hardships for years. The
small amount of the instalment, especially in the case of clergy reserves,
induces persons of this class to purchase more land than they can con.
veniently pay for, and they are further encouraged by the knowledge of
the fact, that government have never taken any steps to distress persons
who have paid one instalment, whether of a fourth, as in the case of the
crown, or a tenth as in the case of the clergy reserves, on account of the
remainder. I think it would be a considerable improvement to the sys.
tem, if the price of crown lands was diminished, and the whole of the
purchase money was required to be paid down.

Have there not been directions issued from the Colonial Office, direct-
ing that the whole of the purchase money should be paid at once i

Yes, such a dispatch was received during the administration of Sir F.
B. IIe.id, but it was received during the great commercial pressure in this
country, and from that cause as well as others to which I have referred,
such as the expectation of the public, that land would be granted upon
more advantageous terms than formerly, the commissioner of crown lands
was instructed by the Governor not to act upon the regulations until
further orders.

The commissioner has the power of fixing the price at which crown
lands shall be put up ?

He has virtually, but he cannot determine the price at which land shall
be sold, as he is compelled to put it up for sale by auction.

Was there not an Act of the Provincial Legislature introducing new
regulations for the future disposal of waste lands, the property of the
crown ?

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Yes such an Act was passed in the session of 1837, which was reserv-
ed for the royal assent, and to which such assent has been since given,
but the same has not gone fully into operation in consequence of instruc-
tions received from Lord Durham ; it was the less necessary, since the
emigration this year has been very trifling, and very few applicatiooa
indeed liave been made for land.

In what nay will this Act affect the duties of the commissioner of crown
lands ?

The principal object of that Act appears to have been to benefit the
speculators in U. E. rights, and to curtail the necessary discretionary
power which should be vested in the head of a department ; the first ob-
ject was accomplished by authorising the issue of a patent in the name
of an assignee, instead of the U. E. Loyalists, as formerly, and also ad-
mitting the claim of the assignee to a reiuission of £40 upon each right
in the purchase of public lands, whether crown land or clergy, ordnance,
or Indian reserves ; it directs the appointment of agents in each district
in the Province, however small may be the quantity of public lands in the
district, to whom all payments are to be made, and for whose due applica-
tion of those payments the commissioner of crown lands is made respon-
sible : the securities which they are required to furnish being to him, and
not the government.

In what way are the agents to be remunerated ?

By a percentage on the sales they may effect.

This would amount to a very small sum, would it not ?

Very small.

Then it may be presumed that few persons would be found to take tlw
situation, unless they had claims which they are desirous of locating for
themselves or their friends ?

I should think this might be a reason in connection with the favor and
patronage which an office might give, which would be very great indeid,
their powers as defined by the Act. would leave the commissioner of
crown lands at Toronto a complete cypher, placing him in the condition
of an accountant, bound to audit the accounts of these commissioners to
the Provincial Legislature.

What are the duties of the commissioner of Crown lands as agent for
the clergy reserves ?

To ascertain the value of such lots as are under lease or occupation of
individuals and to sell the same upon application of the persons settled
there, fixing the upset price to vacant clergy reserves, and selling the
same by auction In the district where the lots are situated, receiving the
amount of the purchase money, and accounting therefor to the Governor
in Council. The principal of the purchase money as it is received, is
paid into the military chest, under instructions from Lord Goderich, and
the interest is paid to the Receiver General.

Of what do these clergy reserves consist ?

As I understand it of one-seventh of the lands in the different surveyed
townships in the Province ; at least I should judge this from the returns
from the Surveyor General's office, which consist of one-seventh of the
lands in the surveyed townships.

The reserves are offered for sale under the Act of the Imperial Legis-
lature, are they not ?

Yes, they are.

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ras reserv.

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of instruc-

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ing the
iving the
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erich, and

it surveyed
the returns
enth of the

rial Legis-

What proportion of them is the Agent for Clergy Reserves authorised
to sell ?

One-fourth part, or not more than 10,000 «u;*e« per annum.

How much has been returned to the agent for Clergy Reserves, as the
whole amount of such reserves ?

Upwards of 2,350.000 acres.

How much of these has been disposed of in the whole P

466,742 acres up to June last, And 6.343 acres since that time, making
473.105 in the whole.

So that there is at the present time 1 20,000 acres yet to be disposed
of before the amount which the act authorises the agent to sell will be
exhausted ?

Yes, "but there is about 1 57,000 acres of the total amount given above,
which has not yet been surveyed.

In what manner are the reserves sold — by auction or by private con-
tract ?

They are sold, the vacant lots by public auction, the leased and improved
lots by private contract, to the persons by whom they are occupied, and
have been improved, under the authority of an order in Council, the par-
ties so admitted, to purchase, producing documentary evidence of their
right to pre-emption.

Of the 466,000 acres sold, what proportion was improved on lease ?

I am unable to answer this question:, as in the official books no dis-
tinction is made between occupied and unoccupied lots, nor between pri-
vate sales and sales by auction.

What is tlie total amount for which the lands has been sold 1

£317,134 8s. Id.

How much of this has been received ?

£117.555 14s. 7d.

Leaving a balance of £199,578 13s. 6d. etill due ?

Yes.

Is any difficulty found in collecting the instalments for Clergy Reserves
as they become due ?

Yes, a great proportion of them has been allowed from the commence-
ment to remain in arrear, and for the last year and a half a greater propor-
tion of arrearages have occurred, owing to the pressure of the times ; this
will not appear by the accounts of the sums received as given above, but
this is accounted for, by the fact that several of the purchasers have paid
their purchase money and obtained their land before the instalments be-
came due.

Do you know what is the ultimate disposition of the monies received
on this account ?

I have understood it is vested in the English funds for the benefit of
the Clergy, for whom these reserves are made.

Has not this been as yet practically for the Episcopal Clergy ?

I cannot say from my own knowledge, but I have understood so.

And this is the general understanding throughout the Province,
not ?

Yes, it is, as far as I have observed.

Has this appropriation of the whole proceeds of these reserves,
duced any, and if any, what feeling adverse to the political tranquility of
the Province ?
I have reason to believe that it hasproduced a feeling of jealousy amongst

IS it

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the different religious denominations, and more especially the Presbyterian
Congregations, which has naturally tended to disturb the political tran-
quility of the Province.
' In what manner are the timber duties collected in this Province]

The usual practice has been to grant licenses to applicants for the pri -
vilege of cutting timber upon Crown Lands, for a certain quantity speci.
fied in such a license ; a bond is at the same time taken from the parties
obtaining such license, for the payment of the crown dues thereon, and
the raft on reaching Quebec, was made liable for the payment of the dues
which generally amounted to more than that specified in the license, the
parties having cut more timber than their license authorised.

But this applied only to timber sent down the St. Lawrence, — is ther«
no timber cut in any part of the Province which is not s ent by this chan-
nel ?

There is a small quantity of timber cut in townships lying remote from
the St. Lawrence, in the interior, which is sawn up in the neighbourhood,
and upon which it has been found generally impossible to collect the
duty.

Is there no timber of this sort sent into the States ?
Not that I am aware of ; the principal timber trade is on the Ottawa
River. — A collector is appointed at Bytown, to ascertain the amount of
duties upon the timber which passes that place. Timber cut upon the
Crown Lands in this part, is in such small quantities, that it is difficult to
discover whether it has been cut upon Crown Land or not, the expense
of collection would be far greater than the receipts.

What has been the gross amount produced by these duties since the
appointment of the Surveyor General of Woods and Forests ?

Up to the 30th January last, it had amounted to £58,085 4s. lid.,
since then there has been received £4,763 48. 2d., to this must be added
£8,567 I3s. 6d., which the late coUecter of timber duties at Bytown,
Mr. Sheriff, remained in default to the late Surveyor General of Woods
and Forests, up to the lOth May, 1837, when he retired from oflUce, as
also a sum of £1,080 78, 8d., which the same collector was in default to
the present Surve3'or General of Woods and Forests. The present Sur-
veyor General dismissed Mr. Sheriff, as soon as his accounts coulr^. be
made up, having previously placed the present collector, Mr. Stephenson,
in charge to prevent further defalcations.

Was the whole of the amount received by the late Surveyor General,
duly accounted for ?

I cannot state ; the books of this office do not shew how the account
stands at present.
How did they stand when they left office ?

The last account current of Mr. Robinson was, I understand, render-
ed after he left the office, and is not entered in the books of this depart-
ment, so that I am unable to answer this question.
Then you have no account for the year he left office ?
None for 1836, ^ '

Nor for the beginning of 1837 1
Nol his account with government.

Vesbyterian
itical tran-

nnce ]
for the pri -
intity speci.
the parties
hereon, and
of the dues
iceuse, the

e, — is there
J this chan-

remote from

ghbourhood,

collect the

the Ottawa
amount of
:ut upon the
is difficult to
the expense

!S since the
»

i5 4s. lid.,
ist be added
at Bytown,
al of Woods
m office, as
in default to
resent Sur-
;8 coulH. be
Stephenson,

or General,

he account

ind, render-
his depart.

. . .' / '
.■. ; '!.<

Charles Shirref, Esquire,

of Fitzroy Harbour, Upper Canada.

, \ . August 25th, 1838.

What have been your opportunities of becoming acquainted with the
amount and value of the timber growing upon the waste crown lands in
the two Provinces ?

I have resided now for upwards of nineteen years on the Ottawa, in

the heart of the limber trade of the district, and having been engaged in

the timber trade before coming out to this country, 1 h^ive been led to pay

attention to the subject. I was also enjployed for some years as Agent

. under the Surveyor General, to collectthe timber duties on the Ottawa.

You have read that part of the evidence of Mr. Kerr, of Quebec, which
relates to the quantity and value of this timber, and the largeness of the
revenue, which might be eventually derived from it, do you consider
that the opinion he has formed on this subject is well founded ?

I think his opinion is well founded as to the quantity and value of the
timber, but I do not agree with liim, that the present duties are too low.
As an illustration of the increased revenue which might be derived from
this source, I may mention that the produce of timber licences on the
Ottawa; in the year 1825, for the two Provinces, amounted to less than
£2,00, and that it now amounts to about £15,000. I am under the con-
viction, from all the information I can obtain, that all the land to the
north of the Ottawa, till it reaches the heights of the Hudson's Bay
Company's land may be considered as pine land, and the supply therefore
is practically almost inexhaustible. In addition to the present demand
from the United States for pine timber through the St. Lawrence, in the
event of a communication being opened between the Ottawa and the
Lake Huron, a very considerable demand must arise from the Western
States of America, bordering upon that lake, where there is no pine
timber at all, and where settlement is making unparalled progress.

Do not the present facility of obtaining large blocks of land, and at
low prices, tend to diminish the amount of this revenue, by making it
more advantageous to individuals to purchase land for the sake of the
timber, only than to pay for licenses ?

1 should say so. Cases have occurred in which land has been bought
merely for the timber, upon a calculation of course, that by this means,
the tim jer would be obtained at a cheaper rate, than if it had been cut
tinder license. I can mention that of a company of AmericBns, who pur-
chased from private individuals some thousand acres in the township of
Onslow, at the rate of I think 10s. per acre, which 1 do not conceive
could bear any proportion to the value of the timber. Many similar
cases, though to a smaller amount have occurred within my knowledge,
and the temptation to do this was very great, because when the purchaser
had paid the first instalment, and obtained his location ticket, he could
proceed to cut the timber. And the only penalty for not paying the
other instalments was the resumption of the land about which he was
very indifferent. This was unfair to those who cut timber under the
licences.

Has any method occurred to you of preventing this practice ?

The only method that has occurred to mo, is, that government should
hold these lands which are generally unfit for settlement, and merely sell
the timber upon them. Another check to these practices, would be
that the whole of the purchase money of the land should be paid down
at once.

. .1

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Do you consider the present method of collecting the revenue from
timber the best that could be adopted ?

Different methods are pursued in ditFerent places. Below the Ottawa
the lumberer pays for the quantity of timber named in his license, what'
ever quantity be may cut. On the Ottawa he pays for the quantity
actually cut. This diiTerence arrises from the fact, that on the Ottawa
the quantity is ascertained by measurement, and that below, the mere
statement of the lumberer is received as evidence. The method of pay-
ment, according to the quantity ascertained bv measuremennt arose in
the following manner. The timber trade of tiiis country bad its origin
in licenses granted by the crown at home, to contractors for the sup*
ply of the navy yard. In oider to enable the contractors to fulfil their
contracts, they were allowed to cut timber in Canada for nothing, under
these licenses. This continued till the year 1824 or 1825. Previous to
that, in consequence of their being no superintendence of the crown
forests, many private persons in the Province cut limber without a li.
cense, and often interfered with the persons who were cutting with a
license from the crown at home. This led to complaints from the agents
to the contractors, and the Attorney General of Upper Canada finding:
that the timber had been cut illegally, seij^d and sold it. This pro-
duced great confusion and dissatisfaction, and I was then consulted by
the Government of Upper Canada as to the means of putting the trade
upon a more satisfactory footing. I recommended that the trade should
be made free, by adroit,ting all persons to cut timber upon equal terms,
and that the quantity cut should be ascertained and pid for after it had
been cut. In consequence of the mattfr being referred to the home go-
vernment, the present S3r«leni was itdopted in the yeur 1835, and the
trade thrown open, and it would have been miiform if a superintendence
could have been Cftiabiislied throughout both Provinces, siinilar tu that
adopted on the Ottawa, from wtieiiee the greatest part of the timber
comes, and where the whole of it must necessarily pass under the eye of
the Inspector.

Are you of opinion that the revenue derived from timber in this
country might be increased by the adoption of a more extensive system
of superinlendance ?

Yes, I have no douM that such might be the case.

You consider that one of the most efficient means of increasing the
demand for Canada timber, wotdd be the opening of a direct water com.
mimication between the great timber districts on the Ottawa, by means
of the lakes and the new settlements, forming in the northwest by the
Americans ?

There can be no question of that. It would create an immense trade
in that direction. Besides the mere facility of communication for convey-
ing the timber to a new vnarkct. the increased facility of obtaining pro-
visions for the great number of lumberers employed, who are now for the
most part supplied from the Upper Province, by the \vay of Montreal would
enable the lumberers to sell their produce at a cheaper rate, which is the
most efficient means of adding to the demand. There is no part of
Upper Canada where provisions are so dear as on the Ottawa, where
many thousands of persons are employed in lumbering, and I have no
doubt that a direct water communication with the lakes would have the
effect of rendering provisions as cheap in the Ottawa district as in any
of either Province.

)venue from

^he Ottawa
3086, whal-
le quantity
the Ottawa
V, tho mere
10(1 of pay-
nt arose in
1 its origin
or the 8up'
fuini their
hing, under
Previous to

the crown
ithout a ]\'
inj>; with a
I) the agents
Eiila fiiidin;;

This pr«i.
oiisulted by
ig the trade
rude should
l»a\ terms,
after it had
le home go.
35, and tho
riutendeiice
lar to that
tlie tiinher
r the eye of

;r in this
sive system

ing the
rater corn-
by means
vest by the

ease trade
or convey-
ining pro-
ow lor the
real would
lich is the
no part of
tva, where
have no
have the
Bts in any

Honorable Robert Baldwin Sullivan, Member of (he Executive Council.

You arc, I believe. Commissioner of Crown Lands, Surveyor General
of Woods and Forests, Agent for the sale of Clergy Reserves, and Sur-
veyor General ?

Yes I am.

These offices are of recent creation ?

Yes. Previously to the appointment of Mr. Robinson, tho whola
business of tho land granting department was conducted by the Sur-
veyor General. Tlie office of Commissioner of Crown Lands was then
appointed. Then the appointment of Surveyor General of Woods and
Forests was made and conferred upon Uie same gentleman. Tho duties
of this office are priiicipiilly the collections of duties paid on license!) to
cut timber. Shortly afterwards the Act of Parliament, by which the
sales of a specified portion of the Clergy Reserves is anthorizeil, was passed,
and under that Act Mr. Robinson was properly, I think, as it was a
part of the sale of lands, appointed as an agent for the sale of these re
serves. Upon his resignation of the ofHccs of Commissioner of Crown
lands and agent, for the sale of Clergy Reserves, I was ai>poinlcd tliorcto.

What was the salary and emoluments of this office ?

The Commissioner of Crown Lands, by his instructions was atitliori/cd
io receive £500 per annum, and also a percentage upon all sales of
crown land eifecied by him, until the same should have amounted to
£1000 per annum. He also receives £500 per annum a* agent for the
sale of Clergy Reserves. When I obtained the two otliecs, I was to receive
£500, as Cominisioner of Crown Lands, without any percentage, and
£500 as agent for the sale of Clergy Reserves. I have since boon
appointed Surveyor General of Woods, and Surveyor General i 1 per-
form the same duties in relation to the Indian reservations, without any
additional emolument. This consolidation of offices took place partly on
account of representations from the Home Government, of the inutility
of 80 many offices to perform what was in most respects the same duty,
and partly in conseqceflcc of a Report from the House of Assembly.

Under these appointments you have the whole superintendence of the
crown property in these l*rovinces, as regards the sale and location of
crown lands, selling of licences to cut timber ; and you also have tho
exclusive management of the sale of clergy reserves ?

Yes I have.

By what regulations are you guided in the peribrmance of these duties ?

1 am guided in the disposal of ciown lands by an Act of IVovincial
Parliament, passed during the last session, by various orders from Ilis
Majesty's Government, received from time to time, and by a series of
Orders in Council, passed since tlie first settlement of the Provinces. As
agent for the sale of Clergy Reserves, I am guided by the Act of the Pro-
vincial Parliament authorzing their sale, and by Orders in Council.

By the instructions given to Mr. Robinson, put in by Mr. Thornhill,
the first instalment, on account of the purchase money, is required to be
paid down ; this practice however has not been generally observed since
your appointment, has it ?

It has not been followed, becau=-e the sales have taken place simultane-
ously in diiferent parts of the c^-untry, and 1 would not be accountable
for the receipts of money by t'.ie persons appointed to sell. A reasonable

V.I

it- jiS

time is allowed by me for the payment of tha rooDcy into this oflicc, upon
which an official receipt issues, and I have not treated the parties n^ ac-
quiring auy right until this payment is made. In the few sales which
have taken place in town, I have directed the money to he paid on the
same day into the office, and have attended myself for the purpose of
receiving it in case of any dispute. The Act of Parliament how-
ever to which I have referred, relieves me from this difficulty, since it di-
rects payment to be made to the agents who ace to give securities.

But does not this Act supercede all other regulations in respect to the
sale of crown lands ?

Not altogether. It was not the intention of the Parliament, that this
should be the case. Certain commissioners had been, I believe, appoint-
ed by the House of Assembly of New Brunswick, to negociale with Her
Majesty's Ministers on the subject of the casual and territorial revenue of
the Province. A draft of a Bill was made in London with the concurrence
of the Home Government, by which all disposition of the crown lands,
otherwise than by sale by auction, was declared to be void. This Act was
sent out to the Lieutenant Governor of this Province, with directions
that the subject should be submitted to the Colonial Legislature, and that
they should be invited to legislate upon it, with a view to the relinqui«ih-
mentofthe crown revenue to the disposal of the Provincial Parliament.
The House of Assembly did not desire to abrogate all rights to land, and
pledges of the government in the sweeping way proposed by that Act.
They passed the present modified bill, still leaving the claimants upon
the government, the enjoyment of their rights, and to the Governor in
Council, the discretion given in the Act ; at the same time introducing
such popular changes in the former system as they thought fit.

But this Act continues the system of sales by auction — arc there any
particular advantages connected with this system to overbalance the delay
and uncertainty which appears to attend it ?

The circumstances of the different parts of the Province as locally
affected by settlement, and consequent value of land, makes it difficult to
give a general answer to this question. When lands are in the immediate
neighbourhood of, or surrounded by settlement, much discontent, and
many charges of favoritism are avoided by public competition. But this
advantage, speaking of it as a general system, is far more than counter-
balanced by the delay which takes place in the acquisition of lands by
persons desirous of purchasing it, and by the impossibility of selecting, in
anticipation, the lands on which individuals desire to settle. In my opinion,
were it thought expedient that the local government should be so far
trusted, certain lands ought to be open for public competition, and in cases
where large quantities of land were for sale, and no competition likely, a
certain price should be fixed, at which any person should be able to ac-
quire land on application. It is impossible to advertise all the vacant
lands in the Province for sale at one auction, and in any selection that
can be made of lands, upon which individuals may have fi.\ed their atten,
tion, they are often unavoidably omitted, so that a iVeedom of choice to
settlers is prevented without any advantage to the government, and I know
of no instances in which, in the sale of laiQ:e iracls ofland, a greater
.•lum than the upset price has been obtained, however low that upset
price may have been. The bidders at these sales generally consider it
a duty ihcy owe to each other not to bid up these lauds when there is

i ' .'

)flicc, upon
irties as ac*
snlcs whicli
laid on the
purpose of
incnt how-
since it di-
ics.
ipect to the

t, that this
re, appoint-
e with Her
I revenue of
concurrence
rown lands,
rhis Act was
1 directions
re, and that
! relinqui«ih-
Parliament,
to land, and
»y that Act.
mants upon
Governor in
introducing
t.

•e there any
ce the delay

as locally

difficult to

immediate

intent, and

But this

an counter-

of lands by

selecting, in

my opinion,

be so far

and in cases

3n likely, a

able to ac-

the vacant

ection that

their atten,

of choice to

, and I Know

, a greater

tiiat upset

consider il

en there id

ID much choice, so (hat in fticl llio system of Rale by auction ia a cum*
brous dead Idler from which the public rccoivcti no ndvantagc ; while
tho HcltlerH arc 8oriouHly delayed in ihcir locutions, The expciise<i of
n man's funuly even fur one month, will amount to half, and in many
ca»oa to the whole of the purchase money of (he governinont lot, and
be may remain for several months bel'urc (he lot ho ha^s selected can by
any possibility he put up, if the publicity required in any sale by auc-
tion is to be given. In my opinion it should he left to the local govern-
ment to decide what lands should be open to competition, and (hut this
competition ought to be allowed in »ll cases when ii was really probable
it would occur, and it shotdd also bo left to the same authority to say
what were (he cases in which khIcs should take place at a li\cd price,
and (bat this should be the case when r.)al competition was not probable.
As respcL'ts Clergy Reserves which arc generally valuable from lying
scattered through (he settlement, a good deal of competition is likely
to (akc place ata public auction, and this probably would have been (be
case equally with the crown reserves, had (he same not been sold to the
Canada Company.

Would not this however cause (he evils of delay and uncertainty
which you have described, as resulting from (he sys(em of auction in
re»pect of (husc lands which it is most desirable to settle at once ?

It will occur in some degree, but there is no other means of avoiding
charges of favoritism which may be made, and which nothitig but an
actual (rust in the integrity of the officers of government, not liable to
be shaken by the misrepresuntations of interested or disappointed in-
dividuals, would enable those officers to withstand. The evil however in
(his case would not bo of so great an extent, as these lands are so valu-
able as to be worth waiting for, for a ceitain time, and on the other hand
they may be of such very great value to persons in the neighbourhood,
that it would be unjust to (hem, not to allow (hem the opportunity of
competing in (he purchase. It might also bo obviated by a sale,
setting (heso lands up to sale in the fusl instance, by auction, and if not
then sold, afterwards selling (hem at the upset price.

Your objections to the system of selling at a fixed price seem, however,
to apply to the opinion which might be formed of the Officers of
Government, than to any evils to be produced by such a system to the
public ?

With the best intentions, an error may be committed, in the valua-
tion of a lot of land, and it would not fail to be set down to corrupt motives ;
but generally speaking, a fixed price would work well for the public
interest. I do not mean by this, an uniform fixed value on all the lands
in a province, district, or township, because, in some cases, individual
lots should be valued according to those circumstances which give value
to lands, and which vary almost infinitely, and it should be left to the
local authorities.

But would not this especially expose them to the charge of favorit-
ism ?

Possibly it would ; but I am supposing that confidence should be
placed in the government.

You have read the evidence given byMr. Thornhill — do you agree in
opinion with him, as to the efl'ects which he has described as being pro-
duced by the practice of selling land, and allowing the purchase money to
be paid by instalments ?

'■M

i ■•!!

I ■']

•i^

B(''i ** '

m '

mkr

When tlio object of (he lolo of Inndn is revenue, and the landi are
▼alimblo, froin being snrrotinded willi settlements, the Kystcm of idling
by instalmcnta oppeai's to nic to bo n very good one, bccauio nn indus-
trious man can pay for bis land out of tlicir proceeds, and at tbe sama
lime increase tlie value of bit lot incnicniubly ; or he can at any time sell
\m land at its improved value, and thus pr.y the principal, and the large
interest of hIx per cent, without any great inconvenience to himself. —
And from the lands being scattered, there is no probability of the com-
bination of purchasers agoiiint the claims of government, which always
tukca place where lands arc disposed of to a whole community on credit,
and when because the whole, community are debtors, they unanimously
resolve not to pay. But as respects sides in remote places and new set-
tlements, the eflTort to raise from the land itself the meuiiH of paying iha
purchase money, is generally unsuccessful. The improvement in lh«
valueof land is very much more thnn the original value as wild land,
but in this improvement the exertions of the settler are generally ex-
pended, so Ihut a man mny be very industrious and BucceH^^nl and be-
come the possessor of n vnluahio |)roporty, and at the same time be (|ui(e
unable to pay purchase munoy of the Innd, by the sale of the produce he
may raise upon it. In his case if he owes a debt to the govornincnt, it is
almost hopeless to attempt to pay it, and he becomes a discuiilcnled per-
son. He can neither be expected within any reaNonai)le lime lo pay his
inslalmcnts, nor to remain contented without a title to his land and im-
provements.

A considerable part of the purchase money of government land is still
in arrear, is it not ?

It is.

Have any attempts been ever made to obtain the payment of these
arrears ?

No they have not, and in some cases I am afraid it will be neces»iary
to give them up. You cannot attempt lo eject a whole c )mmunity.

Yon are aware of tlie practice whirh has been pursued of !>elliiig a part,
one.sevcnih of the waste lands of the province, for the support of a pro-
lestant clergy, has it occurred (o you that the portion thus srl apart i.s
larger than that directed to be made for this purpose by the Constitu-
tional Act ?

The Constitutional Act directs that a portion, equal to one-seventh of
tbe granted lands, should be set apart and specified in the patent grant-
ing such land. This would actually not amount to one-seventh of the
whole lands of the province. A proportion of one-eighth I think would
be the legal reservation.

What has been the actual practice in specifying the reserve in the
patents ?

The rescrvolion in each patent has never amounted to more tlinn one-
seventh of liic quantity of lauds granted by the same jjatcnt

And would you not consider that under the Constilutional Acl, the
portion thus specified is all that can be properly considered as Clergy
Reserves ?

Land is not legally a Clergy Reserve until it is legally specitiod in the
patent. It has merely been designated thus for the convenience of
having it at hand, when descriptions for patents were to be made out.

The practice '..ovvevcr has been, has it not, both with the Surveyor

■:m

14:.

landi are
)f idling
nn Indus-
(he samt
I time icll
tlic large
limscir. —
'the com-
I) alway*
oil rrcdit,
iniinouslj
I new sel-
inyiiig (h«
ent in th«
vild land,
orally cx-
1 and bc-
u be (|ui(e
riKlncu he
iicnt, it ii
ruled per-
In pay his
I niul ini-

kiid \i Btill

t of these

necessary
inilv.
u^ a part,

of a pro-
upart is

Coiistilu-

sevenlh of
lit grant-
ill of the
k would

,'c ill the
lliiHi one-
Act, the
as Clergy

ul in the

liciice of
de out.
Surveyor

General and with (he agent for the sale of CU-rgy Rcscrvoi, (o treat all
thii appropriated land «m Clerj^y Ke!<crve*i f

I (ind (hui (ho pracln c; has biun to tieut (he uiiipccificd as well an the
tprciticd a* Clergy Ri'<«erveH,

Hut (he CoiiNtiluii< ml Act give^ nn authority for locating ns Clergy
KeHPrvmany land llm' i^ not H|)ecitied 'i

Certainly not. Hue i iliink nn inconvenience cnii rrfinit from it, na it
is a matter which ihpcndH upon calculation, andean be »ellled ut any
time.

Has any inconvenience been found to result from making these re.
•orven ?

The making the Crown and Clergy Reserves Iiuh rau.sod the land in
many inhtanees to rrniaiii vacant, and Iiur added oventnully to tlio great-
CKt pviltt under nhicli (he coun(ry has been laboring ; that is, (he inter-
venti ^ ol unsettled lotn in the midt>t of Mcttli'inent, and the consequent
srutleiingoflhe population, and increase in the dillicully of providing
the means of communieutioii through liic country-
There has burn an act authorizing ihc sale ol the Clergy Reserves, haA
(hat put nn end to the evils rcsultitig from tliit* cause ?

The Clergy Reserves arc very much bought after at present, becansu
of their beiiip^ intei^pcised amongst the seltlenieiils, and the sale of them
60 fur as it has gone, ha^ tended to remove the evils I have described,
but as agent I uni (eslrii'ted to (he sale of onc-lburth of thu Clergy re-
set ves, which one-fourth is now nearly exhausted.

So that the act in question will allbrd a very incomplete cure for the
evils thus occasioned i

Very iiiiompletu indeed.

Ill this manner, therefore, the reservation of this portion of the land
for the support of the Clergy, appears to have been productive of injury
to the country, by obstructing its progress in wealth, and wasting the
resources of its inhabitants. Has the manner in which the proceeds of
these reserves have been a|ipropriated to the support of one church
only, produced any, and what lecliiigs adverse to the harmony and
tranquility of (he Province ?

It has produced a great deal of discussion and agitation of late years,
both ill (he Legislature and upon popular t'celings, one parly liuvn been
satisfied with it, and another against it, and both sides have iiiainlaiiiod
their cause with the violence and heat which always altcnd ilisciissiuns,
into which religious (iid'eroiiccs arc introduced.

Crown Reserves are, I believe, no longer made ?

They arc not any longer made in elFect, and those which have been
made, and have not been disposed of to the Canada Company, have been
disponed of, or are open (o di>'po$al in the usual way, as other parts of
the Crown domain.

Have the eviU which you have described as resulting in foimcr times
from the Crown, as well as IVoin Clergy reserves, been put an end to, by
(he sale to the Canada Company, to which you have referred ?

So far as the Canada Company have sold their reserves, this has been
^on'e.

Are you aware to what extent these sales have been made ?

Ko, I am not.

What eflect has been produced by the sale to the Canada Company of
these reserves, upon the settlement of the Province ^

p • ?>,'

Tlie eflTect promised by tlic institution of (he Cunaila Coni|iaiiy win
the prodiolion ot'cmigrdlion nnd (lie improvement of the territory ceiled
to the Company, thus miikinp; it fit for scttlcmen(, and devclopin<; (ho
resources of the I'roviiue, Tiie improvement of the territory lias not
however been promoted in (lie case of the reserves, becauMO (liey are
senttered as the cier<ry reserves me tliroiij^liout tlie seKlcineiils. So (hat
tile Company eonid not be expected, and did not make roads or other
communications to (licni. The sale has con8ec|ueu(ly been solely one of
speculation, (he Company piircliasinj>; at a very luw rate, and selling it
at a very great advance. I tliink that if the lands were (o be dispo cd of
by government at a low price, (he enconragemcnt to cmigratioi> would
liuve been greater had (hey been so disposed of to individual settlers,
anil if revenue was (he object of sale, the prices wliieli have bicii ob-
tained lor Clergy Unserves will show that (iiis object would liiive been
obtiiined with a quadrnple etVect, by u sale to individuals, at what the
land wonid fetch. I think too (hat (lie sale of the Crown reserves to the
Canada Company has had u misehevious ell'ect n|)on the grants to olii-
cers, who were encouraged to emigrate in tho hope of receiving at (he
hands of government, n place upon which they and (heir fumdies could
reside. The intentions of government have in fact been rendered in a great
measure abortive. Had the sale (o (he Company no( taken place (lieso
sctders could have been permitted (o take locadons indie midst of set-
tlement, audio the neighbourhood of schools and places of worship,
and they consequently would have resided upon their grants, \>l)c>re llieir
residence would have ha-.i n greatly beneliciul elfect upon (he Province.
Since the allowance of ofliccrs has been changed from grant-i of a certain
number of acres of land without reference to si(uation or value, to an
allowance of a certain amount of value in land, the saving of land to
the government would have been very grea(, inasmuch as ins(ead of
receiving I '200 acres in (he bark woods, at five shillings per acre for
£300, he would have been glad to receive in many cases oOO acres of
these Crown Reserves at one pound per aero : in the latter case he would
have resided upon his grant, i.ad improved (he country and inureused
its resources, while on his present place he is not able (o reside, and it
remains a wilderness in tho way of any effort of (he government to im-
prove the neighbouring country. ]n many cases when othcers have
at(eii)p(ed settlement in the back country, on these large grants, (hey
have been impoverished and discouraged, nnd their fandlics |>laced be-
yond society, and without any means of education.

Was not an attempt made to found a settlement of otiicers thus entitled
to grants or remission in the i;cii;hbourliood of Lake Siinco V

Yes, and in other parts of the Province.

What has been the result of these attempts ?

In many instances very unfortunate, up to this time the settlers lavc
undergone innumerable privations, from which, however, a belter slate of
things, and inward emigration, may relieve them.

Have lot many of these individuals been compelled to abandon their
locations .'

Those who had the means of purchasing land in the settlements, and
wlio had not exhausted their means in the attempt to settle in the back
country have, in a great many instances, purchased land near the fron-
tier. Those whose means were exhausted by attempts to improve their
grants, btill continue to struggle against the dilHculties of their situa-
tion.

ipany vrai
lory ceded
bpin;^ iho
ry has not

tlicy are
:!. So tliut
; or oilier
ilc'ly one of
(1 selliii^ it
Jispo jii of
liot> would
ul settlers,
I been ob-
liuve been
t wlitil the
rvcs to tlie
Ills to olll-
ving III the
i>lies could
J ill :i "jii'i't
, uct! liiest)
lidst ol'sct-
olworshil),
where llicir

Province,
of a certain
line, to un

of land to

instead of

er acre for

acres of

ic he woulii

incrcused

ide, and it
lent to ini-
Hcers have

uiits, they

placed be-

hub cutilled

tilers lavc
tcr slate of

uidon their

:mcnts, and
1 the back
ir the Kruii.
prove their
' their siluu-

You have stated that increased emigration might relieve individuals
thus circumstanced from the dillicullies of their present position — what
means are there at the disposal of government to encourage or promote
snch emigration at flic present time'i'

The question of the ap|)ioprialion of the hereditary revenue of the
Crown, has caused the cessation of all outlay for this purpose, and left
the government without funds at its disposal, cither to encourage cmigra*
lion or to make the country tit lor settlement on the arrival of cniigiants.
AVhcn settlement was contined to the Frontier along the banks of navi-
gable rivers, or on the shores of the lakes, the intervention of govern-
ment to form or to maintain the means of communication was not neces-
sary, but now that settlers have !.o go into the back country, it is in the
highest degree necessary that this should be done.

But as one of the chief inducements to emigrate is the hope of obtain-
ing land, and as there does not appear to be more than about 1,000, OOO
ncres, and that chiefly ol inleiior land at the disposal of govern-
ment, the Crown is deprived of the ])rincipal means of encouraging emi-
gration ?

In addition to the 1,000,000 acres in the surveyed districts, there are
about .'J, 000, 000 acres of very superior land, well siluateil for settlement,
the Indian jmssession of which has been recently reliiuiuishsd to the
government.

Hut even with this ac{|uisition, thccpiantity of land at the disposal of
2;overnmcnt, is not e(iual to half the waste land in the Province, the pro-
|)erly of private individuals ?

In addition to this, however, there is, I believe a very large amount of
land in the I'rovincc which has been located since the early settlement of
the Province, but which has not been patented, and which cither never
has been settled, or the settlement of which has been abandoned, and
which has conseiiucntly reverted to the Crown. As respects the lands in
the hands of individuals, they are to be obtained upon very low terms,
perhaps quite as low as the Government would be disposed to sell their
lands, hO that the iiulucement to emigration may be more easily ascertain-
ed by a comparison of the actual population of the Province, witl- its
superficial extent, considering the Province as generally lei tile as far
north as the latitude of Quebec, than by any comparison with the actual
surveyed townships, or the lots of land still in the hands of government.
IIa\c llic Cusnal and Turilorial Revenues, including the entire i>roducc
of tiic sales of land been given up to the Provincial J.igislature '

They have been offered to the Provincial Legislature, on coiulilion of
its providing a |)ermmicnt Civil List. This condition has not however
been complied with, the qncslion still lemains open.

If this ofler had lieen ueet pted, the home goveriinu nf could have had
at its disposal no means ol improving llieccjuntry .'

The government would have had no means, independently (;f the Lc.
gislalure, and the iinpeoi led part of tlie country not being represented
in pailiameiit, the |)robal)ilily is that the improvement of (he back coun-
try would bi' almost negU-cted. ll has always ajipearcd to me that the Icgi.
timate mean-, lor the inipro\ement of the Crown douiain are the revenues
prodiKcd by its disposal. 1 think it inighl be uion; a(lvanti\g( ously ^ni.
ployed in (his manner than by any oppropriulion for general purposes.

III

^'1

Anthony Botoden Hawke, Esqr. Chief Agent for Emigrants in Upper
Canada.

"What have been your opportunities of becoming acquainted with the
circumstances affecting the employment and settlement of emigrants in
Upper Canada ?

I have resided in the Canadas for nearly twenty.two years, and have
held the situation of Chief Agent for Emigrants since 833. I have also
been a magistrate during the last twelve years. I have consequently
been brought a great deal in communication with the |ieople of the
country; since I have been Chief Agent, we have op <icd and actually
settled twenty-three townships.

What is the nature of your duties as Emigrant Agent ?

To furnish emigrants with information as to routes, distances, and
rates of conveyance to different parts of the province ; to point out the
Crown lands offered for sale in the several districts, to furnish free pas-
sage, and assistance to indigent and pauper emigrants, and tn enable
them to proceed to places where they can obtain work, and when em-
ployment is scarce, to occupy thorn in opening roads, clearing lands^
erecting shanties, &c. I have also to correspond with, and issue in-
structions to the local agents who have charge of the different scltlcnieiits,
and to examine and report upon their acconnts.

"What have been the numbers of emigrants arriving in this Province,
since the year 1829 ?

The numbers that have arrived in Quebec have been in the year

1829 15945

1830 28000

1831 502.54

1832 517-16

1833 21752

1834 30935

1835 12527

1836 27728

1837 21500

1838 2702

263089

making a total of 2G3089. Of these 175390, or two-thirds came to
Upper Canada.

What were in general the character and circumstances of llicse cini-
grants ?

The emigrants may be divided into three classes, those uiio nro pos-
sessed of capital : those who are in indigent circumstances, I)iit have
emigrated on their own means ; and tiie pauper emigrants who arc sent
out by their parishes. In the year 1832, 33 and 34, a considerable por-
tion of the emigrants consisted of the (irst class; since IS'U, the num-
ber of emigrants possessed of capital, has been very inconsiderable, and
the emigrants have consisted almost entirely of the two latter classes. —
In 1834 the proportion of pauper emigrants were one-clcvcntli, in 1835,
one-eighth, in 183G, ono_1ifili, in 1837 about Iwo-seventlm.

For what proportion of llic emigrants ii;ive you fouiul ei.)|il<;yinont ?

It would be extremely dillicnlt to answer this (juestion. bnt probably

in Upper

with the
igrants in

and have
have also
iseqiienlly
le of the
1 actually

nces, and
nt nut the
free pas-
to enable
vlieu om-
ng landsj
issue in-
ittlcnicnts.

Province,

ciir

s came to

liosc cmi-

) a 10 pos-
l)ii(, have
o lire sent
labli; por-
tlic nuin-
niblc, and
classes. —
1, in 1835,

iyinont. ?
probably

it has never exceeded one-twentieth, and these have generally been thoM
who have arrived late in (he fall after the harvest.

In what manner have the remainder found employment ?
' ' A small portion have found employment in the public works, but the
great majority have been engaged by the farmers and mechanics through
the Province.

What funds have you at your disposal for forwarding and relieving
emigrants, and for the employment of those emigrants who cannot oh-
tain employment from private individuals in the Province ?

The Government is empowered by a despatch from the Secretary of
State for the Colonies, to expend out of the Casual and Territorial re-
venue, the sum of £5000 sterling per annum for these purposes.

What amount has been actually expended in each year under th»
authority of this dispatch P

In 1831, the expenditure amounted to £5720 currency, in 1832, to
£18820. During these two years the emigrant department ^^ as under
the superintendence of the Commissioner of Crown Lands; in 1833, I
was appointed Agent for Emigrants, and the expenditure has since been
as follows :

In 1833 £2686

1 834 4530

1835 4743

1836 2720

1837 2973

In what manner was the large expenditure of 1832 produced i
■ In consequence of the appearance of Asiatic Cholera, the people of the
country were afraid to employ emigrants, as they supposed the disease
to be contagious, consequently the Government was obliged to find work
for them at the public expense ; it was also needful to erect hospitals for
the reception of the sick who were very numerous, and this formed a con-
siderable item in the year's expenditure.

As a general rule, however, I understand from you that the
labourer finds little difficulty in procuring employment ?

There is generally very little difficulty, except with those who arrive
late in the iall, more difficulty was experienced last year in consequence
of tlie derangement of the monetary system of the colony.

In what state as to health, have the emigrants generally been on their
arrival in the Province ?

Kmigrants who enter the Province by the way of the St. Lawrence, in
consequence of being exposed in open boats, are frequently indisposed on
their arrivil at Prescot, where, however, there is a hospital provided for
their reception ; the proportion, liowever, of those who are so indisposed
is small ; the expenses of last year at Prescot, Kingston, Hamilton, and
Toronto, for medicine, medical attendance, and comforts for sick emi-
grants, did not amount to more than £250, fot- an emigration of upwards
of 21,000 persons, the majority of whom were iu indigent circumstances.

Oi the emigrants who have arrived in the Proviaco during the last ten
Vfarbi, what proportion do you suppose have remiuucd ?

I should say, at least three-fourths ; of t!io remaining fourth a great
proportion Iiave probably settled in the Stales, and some have returned
liome ; the public works which arc constantly being carried on in the
United States, oiler (considerable inducements to a certain class of emi«
grants.

emigrant

'MiiH

How long do these indigent eitiigrants to whom you have referred,
generally remain in the condition of laborers ?

With the more prudent of them it generally happens that in the course
of two or three years they have money enough to pay the first instalment,
on a Government or Canada Company lot, or to purchase a small quantity
of land of some private person ; this is the course generally pursued by
those who are not settled in towns or employed on public works.

You say that many of these emigrants contrive to pay an instalment on
a Government or Canada Company lot — what proportion of the whole
purchase money does this instalment generally form f

Crown lands and lands belonging to the Canada Company, are sold
upon the following conditions, viz : one-fourth of the purchase money is
required to be paid down, and the remainder with interest in tliree an-
nual instalments, on Clergy lands one-tenth is required to be paid down,
and the remainder in nine annual instalments with the interest.

What prospect do you conceive that an emigrant labourer who has pur-
chased in this manner, has of paying the remaining instalments out of the
produce of his farm ?

My attention has been most particularly directed to the settlers who
purchase of Governinent, and it is my opinion very few persons of this
class succeed in paying the remaining instalments ; I might mention as
an instance of the effects produced by the method of taking payment by
instalments, that in 1832, a number of settlers who bad been sent out by
the Petworth Committee were located in Adelaide and Warwick, on 100
acres of land each, which was valued at ten shillings per acre, they were
to pay the first instalment in three years with interest ; provision^ and
implements were furnisheJ by the Government, for which acknowledg-
ments were taken, in which they engaged to repay the amount before
receiving the patent of their lands ; there has not been a sini;lc instance
in which they have fulfilled their engagements from their labor on the
produce of their lands ; there have only been two instances in which any
payment has been made, in these cases the individuals have sold their
improvements to wealthier settlers. In the Bathurst district a number of
indigent settlers were located upon free grants of lands, to whom the
Government made advances of provisions and implements, taking acknow-
ledgements of the amount thus advanced, the whole of this sum amount-
ing to neari^' £30,000, currency, has been abandoned by Government ;
and not to dwell upon these, perhaps exceptional instances, I believe that
in fact very large proportion of those who have purchased lands of
Government have not paid their instalments as they became due.

Do you know if any meaNS have been adopted to enforce the payment
of such arrears ?

I beheve not in a single instance.

The individualsi who purchase iand in this manner, and have paid
only the first instalment, have not however obtained a satisfactory title
to their land ?

They have not, the deed never issues until the whole of the instal-
ments, with (he interest has been paid up.

Are sales of property tiius circuinslanced recognized by Govcrnmont ?

Under an Act of the last Session ofthe Provincial Parliament, a trans-
fer of these rights lia« been nuthorizcil.

The-e settlers however, allhyinih lii'.licrto permitted to remain upon
their iiinds, are of course liable to he ejictecl at any moment by the Go-

I ii. i

i/|i •♦:.

! referred,

the course
nstalment,
ill quantity
pursued by

talment on
the whole

ny, are sold
money is
three an-

laid down,

ho has pur-
out of the

!ttlers who
sons of this
nention as
Kiymcnt by
cut out by
cic, on 100

I hoy were
vision? and
clviiowlcdg-
ount before
lie instance
iibor on t!ie
wliicii any

sold their

I number of
whom the

ngacknow-

II atnount-
)vernment ;
believe that
d lands of
ue.

le payment

have paid
ictory (ilie

the instal-

vcrnmoiit ?
nt, a trans-
main upon
by the Go-

•! 39

vernment, and cfiQ ba.vd no security from year to year, that this may not
be done, in which case they would, necessarily lose the benefit of their
labor ?

They are so circumstanced.

What eflecC does (his state of uncertainly astothe ultimate enjoyment
.of the fruits of his labor produce upon a settler ?

It naturally has, in many instances, a moit disheartening operation,
especially ia the case of the poor settlers ; as nn individual of this class
finds the instalments with interest accumulating- ou him, he is apt to
despair of ever being able to pay for the land, and is induced in many
instances to abandon his improvements or sell ihcm for a trifling con-
sideration ; anoiher disadvantage which appears to me to rcsnil from
this plan of selling by instalments, is the creation ofa class of n:ilional
debtors.

Then you niagine that the plan of selling laiius by instalments, and
thus encouraging iudividuuls prematurely to become settlers, is ncilhf^r
beneficial to the individual nor to the Provinco ?

Yes thaf is my opinion, I think it has the effect of converting a num-
ber of useful laborers into indigent and useless farmers, who, from want
of capital are unable to bring their land into cultivation.

In addition to the difficulties under which these individuals labor from
want of capital, are there no other difficulties arising from (he manner
in which the lands in the Province havcijeen disponed of by the Govern,
ment ?

There are many other difficulties.

Will you be so good ar to describe the nature of these difficulties 1

The principal evils to which settlers in anew township are snltject,
result from tlkc scantiness of population ^ a township contains G0,00()
acres of land, one-seventh is reserved for the Clergy, one-seventh for (he
Crown, consequently five-sevenths remain for the disposal of Govern-
ment, a large proportion of which is taken up by grants of U. E. Loyal-
ists, militiamen, officers and others ; the far greater part of these grants
remain in an unimproved state, these blocks of wild land, place the
actual settler in an almost hopeless condition, he can hardly expect dur-
ing his lifetime to see his neighbourhood contain a population sufficiently
dense to support mills, schools, post offices, places of worship, markets
or shops, and without these civilization rctrogades. Roads under stieh
circumstances can neither be opened by the settlers, nor kept in pioper
repair, even if made by Government ; the inconvenience arising from want
of roads is very great, and will be best illustrated by an instance which
came under my own oLservation in 1834. I met a settler from the town-
ship of Warvvick, on the Carradcc Plains, returning from the grist mill,
at Westminster with the flourand bran of thirteen buslielsof \>lieut, he had
a yoke of oxen and a horse attached to his waggon, and hud been absent
nine days, and did not expect to reach home until the fuili wing evening ;
light as his load was, he assured me that he had to unli ad wliolely or in
part several times, and after diiving his waggon through the swampis.
to pick out a road llironoh the woods where the swamps or gullies v/ere
fordal'lo, and to carry tlie bags on his buck and replace them in the
\M)gg(in ; supposing the ser\icc8 clllie man and liis Irnni to be vorlh
two dollars per da), the expense of transport would be twenty doliar.s :
as the freight olwlicnt from Toronto to Liveipool is rather less than
28. 6d. per bushel, it follows that a person living in this city could get

V '-■ 'J

if,

S' ,1

,*•

Ihe same wheat ground on the banks of the Mersey, and the flour atid
bran returned to him at a much less expense than he could transport it
from the rear of Warwick to Westminster and back, a distance loss than
ninety miles. Since 1834 a grist mill has been built in Adelaide the
adjoining township, which is a great advantage to the Warwick settlers,
but the people in many parts of the Province still sufier great incon-
venience for (he same cause.

The instance which you have just related is, I suppose, an illustratioa
of an evil of every day occurrence, though not 80 often to the extent ?

Yes, the evil is universally complained of in all newly settled parts of
the country.

Which comprises probably the greater part of the Province ?

I should imagine two-thirds of the surveyed townships, are subject to
this evil.

This is, however, an evil for which you, under the circumstances you
have detailed, of the chief part of the land having been placed beyond the
disposal or control of the Crown, Government can at present aftbrd no
adequate remedy ?

It has been suggested that if the statute labor was commuted for a
money payment, a sufficient fund might be raised to put the leading
roads in the Province in a good state of repair.

Would this be sufficient to provide an effectual remedy to the evil ?

I should apprehend not, in the new townships, the populatation is not
sufficiently dense to keep them in good order.

And even if this were done, only one class of the evils which you have
described, namely, those resulting from a want of the means of commu-
nication would be remedied, and the settlers would still be without the
means of education for their children, as well as without post-offices,
markets, Ac. '?

I am of opinion that the improvement of the roads would induce many
persons to settle on new lands, provided the private individuals to whom
the lands belong, would sell them at a reasonable rate.

You have stated that part of you duties as Emigrant Agent, is to point
out to emigrants the Crown lands offered for sale in the several districts,
from what source do you derive your information on this subject ?

From the diagrams and maps in the Surveyor General's Office, and the
reports of the Surveyors. 1 also generally give the parties letters of in-
troduction to the resident Agent for the district, where he wishes to set-
tle.

Are there any complaints of difficulties experienced by emigrants in the
"cieciion and acquisition of Crown lands 1

Yes, but most of them are inseparable, from the situation of the lands
offered for sale by the Government ; the person wishing to purchase is
generally compelled to take a guide who is accustomed to the wilder-
ness to point out the lots, but after he has selected the lot, he frequently
finds himself outbid at the public auction; thb, however, refers to the
system before the recent Act of the Provincial Parliament, for the dis-
posal of public lands.

Amongst the emigrants to this Province, has there not been a consider-
able number of commuted pensioners I

Yes.

What was the actual number ?

I am unable to give a precise answer to ibis question, as they are clas-
sed in the Surveyor General's Office, under the general head o\' Dischargid

!li

■ n

I flour and
ansport it
a loss than
Jcluidc the
ck settlerd,
eat incoii-

illustratioa
ixtent ?
id parts of

subject to

Lances you

beyond the

aftbrd no

[ited for a
he leading

e evil ?
ition is not

i you have
)f comniu-
ivithout the
ost-ofhces,

duce many
Is to whom

is to point
1 districts,
2t ?

2e, and the
;ers of in-
es to set-

Soldiers ; but from the best information I have beon able to collect, up-
wards of eight hundred came to the Province in 1832 and 1833,

What proportion of these do you suppose have settled upon the lands
assigned to them by Government ?

The major part of them took possession of their lands^ but very few
continued to occupy them, and even those who continued to reside uppn
their lands are constantly petitioning Government for assistance, as they
are not able to raise sufficient grain to support themselves.

Those who have not settled upon their lands, have, I presume, in most
instances sold their grants ?

"When they succeed in obtaining a patent for their land they generally
sell it.

Will you describe generally the condition and ultimate fate of these
individuals ?

The plan which the Government pursued with regard to these individu-
als was to give them a certain amount in money, and a specified quantity
of land ; one half of the money was paid to them in England and the re-
mainder in Quebec or Montreal : with scarcely an exception, all those
who arrived in this Province had spent the whole of their money, and
were in a state of the greatest destitution ; they were sent to their lands
at the expense of Government, or employment was offered them for six
or eight months ; as the expense however could not be continued, it was
put a stop to, and a great number abandoned their lots and repaired to
the town, followed by their families, where many of them continued to
reside, and procure a precarious living by begging and other less creditable
means. In order to relieve this city, I was directed by Sir John Colborne,
in 1834, to send upwards of forty persons of this class, with their families,
to Penetanguishine, where they received rations, in the expectation that
the time would arrive when they would be able to provide for their own
wants ; more or less assistance has been granted every year since their
landing in Canada, and so far are they from having bettered their con-
dition, that the necessity of relieving them is as imperative as ever, their
distressed situation is to be attributed to their habits and infirmities, they
are not able to bring their grants of lands into cultivation to an extent
that will supply them with food, or able to earn their bread as laborers,
while their habits preclude the possibility of employing them as domes-
tic ssrvants, they are with very few exceptions a buithcn to the country.

ants in the

f the lands
)urchase is
the wilder-
frequently
fers to the
V the dis.

i consider.

y are clas-
Dischargid

•it;

Charles Rankin, Esq. Deputy Land Surveyor.

How long have you been practising Land Surveyor in this Province ?
Since 1820.

During that period you must liave had many opportunities of observing
the system of disposing of waste lands, the property of the Crown ?
I have.

Will you describe the general results of that system so far as you have
had an opportunity of observing ?

The system of making large grants to individuals who had no intention
of settling them has tended to retard the prosperity of the colony, by se-
parating the actual settlers, and rendering it so much more difficult, and
in some cases impossible for them to make the necessary roads, it lias
also made the markets more distant and more precarious. To such an
extent have these difficulties been experienced as to occasion the aban-
donment of settlements which had been formed. I may mention an in-
stance of this, the township Rama, where, after a trial of three years,
the settlers were compelled to abandon their improvements. It should
be noticed, that the settlers in this instance were not of a class fitted to
encounter the privations of the wilderness, being half pay officers. In
the township of St. Vincent, almost all the most valuable settlers have
left their farms from the same cause, the township of Nattawasaga and
Collingwood, the whole of the land in which had been granted, and
which are almost entirely unsettled (Collingwood I believe has only one
rettler) intervening between them and the settled township, and render-
ing communication impossible. There have been numerous instances in
which, though the settlement has not been altogether abandoned, the
most valuable settlers, after unavailing struggles of several years with the
difficulties which I have described, have left their farms.

You were at one time Deputy Surveyor, employed in the Western
district ?
Yes, I was for ten years.

What, in your opinion is the proportion of land in that district granted
by the Crown, now occupied by actual settlers ?
I should imagine one tenth.

Then the remaining nine.tenths are still in a state of wilderness ?
Yes, necessarily.

Of course the roads through this district must necessarily be very in-
adequate to the wants of the people ?

Yes exceedingly so ; the resource of the settlers are altogether inade.
quate to the making of roads, and there is no public provision for mak-
ing them.

Do you know if in this district the Crown has any large quantity of
land yet remaining at its disposal ?
1 believe it has very little.

Then the Crown has no means at present of locating actual settlers in
this district, and thus of removing the difficulties complained of by those
who are settled there ?

No it has not. It appears to me that the remedy is in the hands of
the Legislature, by imposing a tax on wild lands.
But there is a tax upon wild lanus, is there not ?
Yes, but so trifling as to be quite insufficient for making grants, espe-
cialJy in the absence o*' '.atute labor. The tax upon settled land is higher

to VI nee ?

f observing
own ?

3 you have

10 intention
ony, by sc-
rticult, and
Js. It has
^o sucli an

the abaii-
ion an in-
iree years,

it should
iss fitted to
flicers. In
ttlers liave
\'asaga and
anted, and

only one
nd render-
stances in
doned, the
rs with tiie

e Western

ict granted

ess ?

J very in-

ther inade-
1 for mak-

uantity of

than the tax upon wild land, and in addition to this the settler has to per-
form statute lal)or upon the roads, from which the owner of wild land is
altogether exempt.

Are the proprit-tors of this unsettled land, residents in the Province ?

They arc generally rcj^idents in the Province, and to a great extent
Members of the Asscmbty or Legislative Council, which, perhaps, alFords
a sufficient explanation of the continuance of those evils, without eft'ec-
tual means being adopted for their removal.

Art! the present holders of this wild land, the original grantees of the
Crown ?

In very few instances. They are generally persons who have purchased
the claims of the U. E. Loyalists and others, and now possess in many
instances tracts of upwards of ten thousand acres ; I believe in some in.
stances forty thousand acres.

But do not these individuals make any effort for the improvement and
settlement of their property .>

I know of only one instance in which this has been done, and that to a
limited extent- They generally hold for sale, but at prices, that under
the circumstances, it is unfair to expect a settler can pay.

Do they then ask higher prices than those at which land is Bold by
Government ?

In general they do not ; but an individual purchasing of Government
knows the Government land will be open to settlement on the same terms
as those on which he has purcbased, while in the case of private indivL
duals he has no security that it will be open for settlement at all, and he is
assured that tbe price will be raised in proportion as the settlement in-
creases ; in fact his settling upon the land will induce the proprietor to
put a higher price upon the adjoining lots, and thus will even tend to re-
tard the settlement of the tracts.

Are there no other obstacles to the settlement of the Province, than
those arising from large tracts of wild land held by individuals 1

Yes ; the plan of apportioning Crown and Clergy Reserves on the
different settlements, by intermixing them with the lots opened for settle-
ment, and thereby separating tbe settlers, has caused iujuries of precisely
the same description as those to which I have alluded, as being occasion-
ed by grants to individuals.

settlers in
fby those

'■ hands of

nts, espe.
i is higher

William Warren Baldwin, isq. M. D. formerly M. P. P.

How long have you resided in this country ?
Nearly forty years, I came into the Province in 1799.
During your long residence in this Province, you have had many op-
portunities of observing the various systems pursued in the disposal of the
waste lands in the Province ?

I have no official knowledge on the subject but from the occurrences
of the times as they have presented themselves to my notice, I have had
those opportunities.

Did not the Governmeni at one time offer to grant whole townships to
individuals who would undertake the settlement of them ?

Yes they did.

Will you describe the proceedings that took place in consequence of
those offers, and the result which they produced, as far as they cam*
under your knowledge ?

The only townships that I recollect as having been assigned in this man-
ner, were those ofMarkham, Whitby, Hope and Cramahc, the town-
ship of Markham was assigned to Mr. Berczy, on condition of bringing
sixty heads of families and settling them in the townships, 'i'he town,
ship contained, 1 believe, about 60,000 acres. Mr. Berczy brought in
his settlers, as he informed me, but after having done so, the Provincial
Government, considered that this township system was an unwise method
of granting land out, and not only refrained from making any more grants
for the future, but also determined to rescind the orders in Council in
favor of the township nominees. I believe all these nominees, with
the exception of Mr. Berczy (who refused it as inadequate to his losses)
accepted the compromise offered by the Government, which was, as I
understood, 1200 acres for themselves, and the same to the several
members of their families. Mr. Berczy has informed me, that in the
formation of the settlement he had expended 60,000 dollars, the whole
of which was necessarily a total loss. Some other individuals made great
exertions to settle the townships assigned to them, and the result of this
township system was to forward the settlement of the country.

When this township system vas abandoned, what system was substi-
tuted in its place ?

I believe the power of granting land was vested in the Governor in
Council, and that they gave lands to almost every body who applied for
them, without any condition beyond that of paying fees upon a verbal
statement, that they were going to live in the country.

This statement I presume was only required from emigrants ?

No, from those who resided in the country, no conditions whatever
were required.

The greater part of these grants were made to persons who did not settle
on their lands ?

I cannot give any accurate answer to this question, but I presume it
was so.

When an emigrant arrived in this country, did he find any difficulty
in the selection of his land ?

I have (Vcqucntly heard that individuals did find great dillicuity in the
selection of their locations, r.iid 1 can say for myself, in the location of
ihe I'iOO acres granted nic by an order in Council, I was coin|icllcd to
^\ait (or many years for the completion of my location, in the hopes of

many op-
sposalof the

occurrenceB
I have had

Dwnsliips to

sequence of
they cam«

n this man-

the town-

of bringing

'J'iie town.

brought in

Provincial

k'isc method

nore grants

Council in

inees, with

his losses)

was, as I

he several

Ihiit in the

, the whole

made great

suit ot this

was substi-

overnor in
applied for
n a verbal

i whatever

i not settle

presume it

^ difficulty

ilty in the

;)cation of

ii|icllcd to

ho])es of

making a favorable selection, and I had found other persons obtained lo-
cations in townships Avhen 1 had been given to understood in the Surveyor
General's office, that there were no locations to bu had, and if I, as u
resident in the county, experienced those obstacles, lean imagine they
arc felt in a far greater degree by strangers on their arrival It was gene-
rally stated and believed throughout the Province, though I do not know
whiih what degree of authority, that it was the practice in the Surveyor
General's office to put a fictitious name on favorable lots, in order that
they might be reserved for some persons whom the persons doing thi.s
desired to benefit.

What has been the course of late years ?

1 do not pretend to say. 1 have had nothing to do with the oflTice for
many years.

Were there any difficulties in the way of obtaining patents for these
grants of land, or any unnecessary delay experienced in passing them
through the different offices ?

I do not know that there was any more constant subject of complaint
on the part of individuals against the Government, than the delays of
office, especially in connection with the land granting. It frequently
happened to myself, and I believe to others also, that during the tim«
when free grants of lands of small amount were made to actual settlers,
persons who had spent their money in waiting for completion of the
grant, have applied to me for employment, while the patent was being
perfected, and I have furnished it for a short period.

Do you know of any striking instance in which any individual was in-
jured by the delay to which he was exposed in this respect ?

The most striking instance that occurred in my knowledge, was that of
a man of the name of Burnes, who in Sir Peiigrine .Maitland's time hav-
ing fallen in debt to some persons whom he had emjiloyed, was pressed
by them for the money. All this time a patent was in progress through
the office for him, he applied to his creditors to give him time till his
patent was completed, which would enable him to raise money to pay
them. The creditors were willing and waited for some time, but at last
became impatient, and they arrested him, and he was compelled to go to
prison. The patent had passed through the office, but he was compelled
to remain in prison a fortnight, while the patent was sent over to the
Governor for signature at hi.s residence near the Falls of Niagara ; when
the patent was obtained he at once obtained his release. I do not mean
to represent this as a matter of ordinary occurrence, but as an illustra-
tion of the difficulties and delays of obtaining a patent under the most
pressing circumstances.

Has it not happened that individuals applying for land have left the
colony in disgust, at the difficulties thus thrown in their way .'

I cannot give any instance of it, and therefore cannot say that such
was the case, but I believe that many instances of the sort have occur,
red.

What effect do you imagine lias been produced upon the progress of
settlement on the country by the profuse manner in which land liad been
granted ?

The progress of the country has not been as prosperous as it ought to
have been ; the grants of land to actual settlers would have filled up the
country, but these settlers were checked by the interposition of Crown

l'>.

til''

If-

A''*',

IMAGE EVALUATION
TEST TARGET (MT-3)

1.0

1.1

_L8 12.5

Its
lit

LS 12.0

IL25 iu

■ 1.6

Fhotografinc

Sdaices

Corporation

23 WiST MAIN STREET

WEBSTER, N.Y. 14580

(716)872-4503

11. >i

and Clergy Reserves, and of large tracts of granted, but unoccupied land.
The Crown Reserves have been sold to the Canada Company.

Do you know if the evils that were formerly experienced from them,
have been in any way diminished in consequence of the means adopted by
that Company ?

Of late years I have heard no complaints of Crown Reserves, and there,
fore would presume, that being blended with the Canada Company's land,
they are included in whatever sentiment is expressed in reference to the
proceedings of that Company.

The Clergy reserves still remain — what efl'ect have they produced upon
the prosperity of the country ?

A very injurious effect indeed ; they have not only retarded in the way
I have observed, the settlement of the country, but they form an enduring
subject of complaint, not only with regard to the agricultural interests of
the country, but also to its political relations, so far as I have an oppor.
tunity of observing, no cause was more influential in producing the dis-
contents, which ended in the last rebellion, than the existence of these
reserves, and this was aggravated by the establishment of the Rectories.
There will be no public tranquility nor confidence in the British Govern-
ment as long as these Rectories are upheld^ and the reserves appropriated
to the support of one Church only. I do not believe that any appropria-
tion of those reserves, which did not include every class of the community,
would restore peace to the country. The apparent general wish of the
community at large is, that they may be devoted to purposes of education.

You have referred in your answer to previeus questions to the feeling
entertained with regard to the Canada Company — what is the nature of
the feeling ?

It was felt in the first instance to be a violation of the rights of the Pro-
vincial Legislature, that the Imperial Parliament should have vested so
large a portion of the lands in the hands of a Company over which neither
the Provincial Legislature nor the Provincial Courts have any power. I be-
lieve the inconveniences which have been felt from the latter cause, have
been removed by an act under the authority, of which the Company can
be sued in the Provincial Courts.

Have there been any complaints that the power given to the Canada
Land Company, by intrusting them with the superintendence, and with the
settlement of 2, 500,000 acres of land, has been exercised in a manner in.
jurious to the Colony ?

I do not know if such complaints have been made, but I am myself of
opinion, and I believe it is an opinion which prevails extensively, that a
Company which has obtained so large a tract of country, from the sale of
which it is to derive profit, but in the improvement of which, as I under-
stood, it has expended no money of its own, cannot be otherwise than in-
jurious to the country, by taking from it large sums of money, for which
it has given no consideration.

'll^

if f

•17

ccupied land.

from them,
IS adopted by

es.and there.
npany's land,
rcnce to the

reduced upon

d in the way
1 an enduring
1 interests of
e an oppor.
icing the dis-
tence of these
he Rectories,
itish Govern-

appropriated
y appropria-
e community,

wish of the
of education.

the feeling
the nature of

ts of the Pro-
ave Tested so
which neither
■ power. I be-
cause, have
'ompany can

the Canada

and with the

i manner in.

m myself of
vely, that a
*tn the sale of
as I under-
wise than in_
fi for which

Georije Slrany Doulton, f'.i([. M. P. P.

What have been your opiioil'iuilics ol o'j.'crvin,:^ tlio cITld^ of the plans
pursued by Govcrnmcnl in t!ic disposal of the wnsfc I ituN, tlio [)roi)erty of
the Crown in this Colony ?

( Iiave resided in tic I'r'ivinrc tliirty ycnr'^, f have a "niit dciil to do
with the lands of the Province, and am a !ar?;c hiii<liii^hlor niy^eh.

Wliat in your ojiinion has been the operation of Uic system pursued by
the Govcrnmcnl in the disposal of wild lands ?

I think, that without any (loul)t, it has retarded very materially the
settlement ofthe coiuitry ; trie plan ol'^rantin^' large tracts to ,i;entlemen
who have neither the niuscuhir strength to go into the wildernos to cul-
tivate it, nor perhaps the pecuniary means to improve their grant, has
been the means of a large part of the country remaining in a state of wil-
derness. I think the system of granting land to the children of U. E.
Loyalists has not been productive ofthe benefit expected from it, a very
small proportion of the land granted to them has been occupied or ini.
proved from the following reasons, viz : a great proportion of such grants
were to unmarried females, who very readily disposed of them for a small
consideration, frequently from £2 to £5 for a grant of two hundred acres ;
the grants made to young men were also frequently sold for a very small
consideration, they generally had parents with whom they lived, and
were therefore not disposed to move to their grants of land, but preferred
remaining with their families. I do not think one-tenth ofthe land grant-
ed to the sons and daughters of the U. E. Loyalists, has been occupied
by the persons to whom tbey were granted, and in a great proportion of
cases not occupied at all. Many persons have purchased very largely of
these grants, I know of two instances in particular, where the purchase
has amounted to twenty thousand acres. Grants to ofHcers and soldiers,
although intended as a benefit to the parties, have in many instances
proved injurious to the country, as well as to the parties themselves.
Very large grants have been made sometimes to officers, who had neither
the inclination nor the means to settle upon their grant, or improve it,
and it has either remained a wilderness in the hands of the original gran-
tee for a great number of years, or has been sold for a trifle, and still
remains a wilderness. The officers of the navy have in most instances
proved valuable settlers, being better adapted to the improvement of land
than officers of the army ; the gr<ints to officers have invariably been by
an order from Home, by the late alteration in the law they have had the
alternative of purchasing land from the Crown, on which they are en-
titled to a remission of purchase money according to their rank, or they
may transfer their claim to the amount of rcraissiou money to some one
else who may purchase land from the Crown, to the amount ; in cases
where they do not intend to settle upon the land, the latter lias been a
beneficial alteration, both to themselves and the country, as the Govern-
ment saves so much land which would otherwise have passed out of its
control, and would, probably, have remained altogether unimproved. The
grants to privates has been particularly disadvantageous to the Colony, a
great proportion of them were pensioners anil infirm, and altogether un-
huilcd to settle upon rtild lands ; Ihey received in England four year-: pi'ii-
bion, ar.d i; j;,ranl of onj hur.drcd acres on their arrival in this coui.iry ; the
{j;rculcbl j.art of ll.c money was epeut in coming, and the land was in nioot
iiiJiti'.ncc.'- ol' \io "ucto tliCiu, n" th; y w. i.: iiicnp;d>!c of tilling it. (irauls

i£ k

lif

of land liavc also been made to Clergymen, Lawyers, Surveyors, and
other gentlemen, who had no intention ot becoming settlers on it. Also
in many instances large tracts have been granted to individuals who have
contracted for surveys of townsliips, as a remuneration for surveying,
which, in most inijtances, has remained a wilderness.

By all these methods I suppose it has happened that a very large pro-
portion of the lands of the Province are now in the hands of individuals,
who have made no improvement on them P

That is tlie case.

What eifect do you suppose is produced upon the prosperity of the
Province, by this state of things ?

I think I stated before (hat the settlement of the Province has been
very much retarded, and I also think we shall not have good roads or set-
tlements in the Province, unless some measure is devised by which the
proprietors of unoccupied lands should contribute more in the way of as-
sessment upon their lands to the revenue of the country. I think the pre-
sent asscsssnient is a great deal too low, and might with great justice to
the land-holders be encreased.

You contemplate, I suppose, that the produce of such encreased tax,
should be specially applied to the improvement of the country, by open-
ing rcsds, and encreasing the means of communication ?

I do ; I think also in connection with such a measure that it is very
desirable to have a commutation of statute labor upon roads, which with
theother funds just mentioned, would afford ample means for making
good roads. It is discouraging to British emigrants coming to the
country, and visiting their friends in the interior of it, to liud the roads
so exceedingly bad and even dangerous, and this alone sometimes deters
them from settling in the country.

And I suppose it would be in a high degree unwise on the part of such
emii;rants, to settle in some parts of the interior, on account the im-
pos!>ibility, under the present syateni, of having good rouds ?

I think so.

in addition to the land which has been granted to private individuals,
and which remains in a state of wiliierncs.s, there has been large appro-
priations for pnhlic purposes, such as the support of ihc Prnlestqiit
Clergy, and the endowment of the university and schools'; have you anv
idea whether nny, and what proportion of (he laud thus appropriated has
been improved ?

I ihink nearly all the Clergy reserves in the settled parts of (he country
have been taken up and improved.

These however have been sold, have (hey not, under the Act authoriz-
ing the sale of a portion of the Clergy Reserves /

A large portion of these have ; some are now under lease. A large
proportion of the lands granted for the universities liave also Imjcu sold,
and are now in the course of improvement. The terms adopted, both for
the sale of the Clergy Reserves and university lands, seem favorable to
intending settlers, many of them have been purchased by emigrants from
the mother country. I do not consider that the Clergy lands or univer-
sity lands have impeded the settlement of the country, inasmuch as they
have been purchased or leased when sought alter, and have afforded to
the British emigrant frequently an opportunity of procuring a lot of land
in a settled part of the country near their t'riends, when otherwise they

might have been discouraged by the prospect of going into the w ildcriiess,
!\nd abandoned the country.

Hut in order that this result should be produced, the lot in (jucstion
must have previously been reserved (roni settleuient (

Though reserved, it was tre(|uently occupied under lease, and persons
holding Ifinds under lease, generally disposed of their interest in it upon
more advantageous terms than land could be obtained from other indi-
viduals. Land generally reserved for the Clergy and univcrsityi could
be obtained with more facility than land granted by the Crown to private
4ndividuals, not under cultivation. Land can be obtained from the uni-
versity with greater facility than either from the Crown or private indi-
viduals.

What elTect do you suppose has been produced upon the settlement and
prosperity of the country by the disputes which have arisen between the
different religious sects in the country, us to the appropriation of the pro-
duce of the Clergy Reserves .' ^

One eii'ect has been great injury to the Church of England. I do not
think that emigrants coming out from the mother country, know any
thing of the subject before their arrival in the country, or are ir.Huenced
in any way in determining to sellle in the country by this (juestion. I
think a great deal of the ill feeling has arisen from bad management, in
many instances the rents of these reserves have been lost, there has
been no efticicnt management, no one of late jears seems to have had the
control of them.

Has not the system of free grants of laud, the cfl'ect of whicli you have
described been abandoned, and a system of sale substituted in its place ?

Laud is no longer granted to private individuals, having no particular
claim, such as that of officers and the U. E. Loyalists.

Then all those who have such particular claim can obtain lands upon
the same terms as formerly ?

They can substantially, though there has been an alteration in this
respect, viz : officers are now entitled to a remission of purchase money
in proportion to their rank, instead of a grant of land, and the children
of the U. £. Loyalists, instead of taking their grants of land, may trans-
fer their right tu another person, and such person purchasing land of the
Crown is entitled to a credit of £40 for every claim.

But with these exceptions no land can be obtained without purchase?

No, it cannot.

Are the present regulations for the sale of Crown lands, in your opin-
ion, calculated to advance the settlement of the country ?

I think that (he present regulations are an improvement on the old
system. I have formerly heard numerous complaints of the delay in ob-
taining land from the Crown, there was a great deal of expense and diffi-
culty in ascertaining what land was open to purchase ; they had to apply
to various officers — if a Clergy reserve they had to apply to the Surveyor
General's Office, and the Office of the Corporation, as well as the Com-
missioner of Crown Lands ; and frequently on being informed that a lot
was vacant, and after inspecting it, they have discovered there was some
insuperable difficulties to obtaining it, and had to look out for another
lot, or purchase of an individual. Formerly at the sale of Crown Land*
only particular lots were set up, so that many lots which might be vacant
were not ofTered for sale. There was also formerly both delay and
expcnce in obtaining a title to land purchased of tlie Crown ; it was

■ij

^cDerally iicccs«iui y Id t'iii|iloy an Agrnt fur llie purpoM' ; Uj ihe pie-
siMit ^y^lelll, Iiowcvlt, a sclirdulc ot'.ill the vurniil Uti* is to be trail sin it ted
lu ail Agent, lo lie uppointfd ill racli district, liy tlid (Joiiiini9<<iuner uf
Crown Land)*, and ull tiucli lot'* on ure rrturiied in llie iiuliedulu will be
open for sole in llie dit-lrict >vliere llic hind lies ; all vacant hinds belong-
ing to the Crown urc now williout any reocrve open tor Mile in lliis man.
ncr, and iininediutt-ly npon (he payment of the whole of (he piireha«e
iiinncy, the purchaser i-« cntitletl lo have liiK (uitent furwurde'l to tin:
A^tMit uf the diilric!, free of cxpcnte.

I til

111:

! "

Hemv llyndman, Em(|. of llie lowii^liip of Cotljornc, in llnM-minty of
Ilurnii. I^mioii District.

How loii{; have you resided in tliis country \

I arrived in May 1834, and immediutcly proceeded lo CSoilfric-U, and
from there to my present residoncc, which is williiii three miles of th«
town, and in the heart of the Canada Company's Huron trart.

Have you any particulars to communicate to this commission as to the
manner in which the Canada Cnmpany have settled their lands, and the
cflect proiiucrd upon the prosperity of the settlers by their proceedin^li .'

I conceive that the management of the Company is not ofu description
to induce settlers to come to their lands, and that it has inuterially re.
larded the prosperity of the country and its advance in population ;
their a<;ents do not conceal their opinion that the old settlers are not the
oltject of the Company's solicitude, but that their great business is lo
attract new ones, and they act U|K>n this principle in what appears to
!:ie the most unjuRtiiiuble manner. Induced by the representations con-
tained in the publication issued by the Company, and by the state-
ments of the u»;ents, I took land from the Canada Com|iany in 1834,
and purchased eight hundred acres of land in one block, upon which I
uin now settled, bat 1 have found that the promises and inducements
held out by their agents, their advertisements and their publications, arc
very far beyond the reality. The land that I purchased, wus to llic
north of the river Maitland, on the south bank of which is situate the
town of Goderich. On the plan which was shown to me by the Com-
pany's agent, the original of which is deposited in the Surveyor Gene-
ral's office, there was laid down a bridge across the Maitland, and vari-
ous lines of road and it was generally understood among the residents
in the neighbourhood, upon the faith of this plan, and asserted by the
officers of the Canada Company, that the bridge in question would be
built, or at least commenced, in the course of that summer. Fully im-
pressed in the belief that this would be the case, and that the lines of
the road as laid down on the map would be opened, 1 selected land
upon the main line of road from Goderich to the Government land in
the north, communicating with this bridge ; this was in 1834, the
bridge is not yet finished, and was not actually commenced till this
spring ; and I do not believe there can be any means of communicating
by it this year.

Is this bridge of importance to persons settled on the north of the
Maitland ?
We have no certainly of being able to cross the river without it, except
in winter, and then we cross the river on the ice qt the mouth of the
harbour. The commissioners too,8incetlie bridge has been commenc-
ed, have refused to open a road on the north side of the river, to unite
the bridr^e with the road leading through the township ; during a con-
siderable p:ut (if llic year we can neither take our produce to market nor
obtain goods. I have known the river absolutely impassable, either on
horseback or on foot for three days together ; in fact it is scarcely pos-
sible to describe the inconvenience lo which wc have been, and arc ex-
posed t(\ for want of this bridge. In addition to this neglect of the
company to fulfil what was certainly an implied, if not an express
contract, I have to complain of a positive infraction of a similar en«
«:agement. i have mentioned that I purchased land upon the

/ 1.

>.Ti.

§\

miiin line of rnad from Oodericli to tlie iiortli, and othcr
Netllers did the same, when, however, contracts were given out Tur the
lines of road throngh the township, they entirely deviated from tlu' grcul
lines us laid down on the map, along 'which, upon llic fuith ut° llii-
map, settlers had eRtablished themselves, and were to be carried tliroii<;h
the least settled parts of the township. When T staled this to Mr. Junen,
the Company's Commissioner, he stated bruadly that the land through
which the great lines were laid down ncccording to the ma|>, tveru all
luken up, and the Company had no further interest in ihein, and it waH
their object to attract new settlers. Mr. Junes made u siniilur state-
ment in a letter on the subject of the bridge. When giving a reason
u'hy (he Company did not make it at once, he mentioned that they hud
little interest in that township, having disposed of n(>urly ull their land
in it. A portion of the road uilered to ue contracted for, pulsed where
no road was laid down in the map, the remainder passed along lines of
road that had been laid down, but which were laid down us concession
roads and side lines. I applied to Mr. Jones to change the line in such a
manner that I might reap that advantage from it, which I had contenipla.
ted in making my purchase, to which he at last agreed, but on condition
that 1 executed two miles and a half of road at the price of two miles,
for which I was to be paid in land.

Are the Company then in the habit of disposing of their lands iu this
way, and not for money ?

Yes, they frequently pay for similar works iu land ; in some cases con-
tracts of this nature taken by persons who have previously purchased land
of them, and upon which all the instalments have not been paid, and their
labor goes in payment of their instalment, the Company almost always
fixing the rate ; this has been the case with myself, in such cases it is pro-
ductive of no inconvenience, but when the work is taken by mechanics and
others living in the town, large quantities of land get into their hands by
this means, and they do nothing to improve it.

This applies, I suppose, to the work performed at the expence of the
Company ?

Quite the contrary.

Do I then understand you to say that in those works which the Com-
pany are entitled to pay for out of the third of their purchase money, they
pay' in land, and retain the money in their own hands ?

Such is the case, at least with the greater part of such works. In the
contract which I have taken, which is to be paid for out of the purchase
money, the whole is to be paid in land, and this is part of a contract of
upwards of twenty miles, all of which is, I believe, to be paid for in the
same way.

At what rate per acre is the land valued ?

It varies from two to three dollars.

Is this land, so to be taken, wild land ?

Yes, it is.

In the same state in fact as when it was purchased from Government ?

Yes, the land is in the same state, but it has the advantage of a popu-
lation and leading roads, the expense of making which roads is, however,
chareed to the Government.

What is the price per acre which they pay to Government ?

Less than three shillings.

So that they require their contractors for this Gorernment work to take

I, and othcr
II out fur the

I from the grcut
ic fuitli ol' llii-
arried tliroii^li
18 to Mr. J one*,
; luiid tliruiigli
mft|>, were all
U'ln, and it wuh

gimilur Htale-
givinga reason

I I hat tliey hud
ly all their land

paxtted where
J along lines oi'

as concession
le line in such a
liad contempla-
lut on condition
I of two milest

r lands iu this

»omc cases con-
' purchased land
I paid, and their
almost always
li cases it is pro.
y mechanics and
I their hands by

ex pence of the

hich the Com-
ase money, they

works. In the
of the purchase
a contract of
)aid for in the

land at fifteen thillings per acre, for whiph they are paying three shillings,
or one-fifth ?

They do, with regard to the manner in which the company have per.
formed their contracts with Government, and thus procured the advan-
tagea to the colooy, which were held out as the inducement to grant them
a charter, I may state that the objects referred to in the charter to which
one-third of the purchase was to be applied, were, I believe, for I speak
now from memory, not hating the charter at hand, making roads, build-
ing bridges, erecting wharves, piers, churches, sohool houses, mills, &c.
two good roads have been formed, leading from Wilmot and London to
Goderich. No bridges have been built, excepting; those in the line of
the roads, neither wharves nor piers have been built, (the harbour at
Goderich is erected under a Provincial Act, authorizing the levying of
dues,) there are no churches i they have however contributed something
towards the erection of a presbyteiian church at Goderich, and another
place of worship at the distance of about thirteen miles from that ; they
have also contributed in a small degree to the erection of a school in
Goderich, and another at Stratford upon Avon. There are but four mills
in the whole Huron tract, only one of which, that of Stratford upon
Avon, is sufficient to supply its neighbourhood with fiour.

) Government ?
lage of a popu-
>ads is, however,

lent?

ent work to take

fil

, V

n 1'

r. i ■

4i^: ■

William Benj. Robinson, Esq. M. P. P.

You are I believe a native of this Province f

I am, and have always resided in it.

You are acquainted with the townships bordering on Lake Simcoe, to the
eastward ?

I as).

Can you state what is the population of these townships ?

Not exactly, but they are very thinly settled.

What is the state of these townships as to their internal communica-
tion ?

The roads are very bad, probably among the worst of the Province, the
soil being very rich, and the land level.

Does not this state of the roads tend very rauch to retard the progress
of settlers (

It certainly does more than any other cause.

Do you know if much of the land in these townships remains in the
hands of Government or of the Clergy corporation ?

I think not, with the exception of Clergy Reserves.

Then the land is for the most part owned by non-resident proprietors ?

Yes, but the non-residence of many of the proprietors, is attri-
buted to the badness of the road<;, many of those who had settled there
having been compelled by this cause to abandon their locations.

What public funds are there available for the improvement of the roads ?

None now, with the exception of one-third of the wild land assessment
tax in each township. Special grants of from £30 to £100 sterling for
ruch township, have in formei years been granted by the Legislature for
the improvement of the roads ; in addition to these, there is the statute
labor required by law. These funds, though inadequate, have still effect-
ed considerable improvements ; since the land tax has come into operation
there has been a very perceptible improvement.

Are these evils which you describe, peculiar to these townships, or
do they affect the Province generally ?

They are generally felt throughout the Province.

Has any plan suggested itself to your mind by which an effectual reme-
dy might be applied to these evils ?

I have for many years given the improvement of roads great considera.
tion, and would suggest, Ist. That the whole of the wild land tax should
be appropriated to the improvement of roads. 2nd. A general com.uu-
tation of statute labor. 3rd. An uniform and improved systeii of
spending the funds thus produced on the roads, under the superintendence
of competent persons.

Do you imagine the produce of the present land tax and the other
resources mentioned by you, would under any management, be suffi-
cient for the objects to which you would have them applied ?

I think they would with occasional small grants from the Legislature
for such works as bridging extensive sw amps, &c. These remarks apply
generally to the roads throughout the Province, but leading roads and
thoroughfares, can in my opinion be kept in proper repair, only by a toll
upon the traffic upon them.

se Simcoe, to llie

lal communica-
he Province, the
arc! the progrew

remains in the

lent proprietors ?
irietors, is attri-
lad settled there
nations.

ent of the roads ?
1 land assessment
£100 sterling for
le Legislature for
re is the statute
have still effect-
ne into operation

se townships, or

an effectual reme-

great considera.
d land tax should

general com.i.;u-
iroved systei i of
e superintendence

ax and the other
ement, be suffi-
lied ?

n the Legislature
:se remarks apply
wading roads and
ir, only by a toll

Charhs Shirref, Esq. of Fitzroy Harbor, Upper Canada, further examined.

You are the owner of a considcrubic tract of land in the township of
Fitzroy /

1 am, of nearly G,000 acres.

In what manner was this land obtained ?

On my arrival in this) country from Scotland, in 181 0, I brought wiih
mc an order addressed to Sir Peregrine Muitland, at that time Ciovernor
of the Province, directing a grant to be made tJ me of .'{.OOO ncrcs of
land ; the remainder has been acquired partly by grant and partly by pur-
chase.

Was this grant of 3,000 acres subject to any conditions ?

To the usual conditions of settlement, that is of clearing a certain por-
tion of land before the patent issued, and it was not until after perfurniing
these duties that I obtained my patent.

Fitzroy Harbor was at that time, was it not, considerably above any set-
tlement on the Ottawa ?

It was nearly thirty miles.

What was your inducement for locating yourself at that distance from
any settlement ?

It was partly because I was enabled to obtain my land in block, and
partly because on account of its position, and possessing water privilege,
it appeared a desirable place for the formation of a setllement, which was
one of the objects I contemplated in applying for so large a grant.

Did the lettlement of the township of Fitzroy proceed with rapidity ?

No ; its settlement was greatly retarded in consequence of the greatest
part of the best land in the township having been given away by the Land
Board at Brockville, to persons who were the holders of militia claims,
and were themselves settled in other parts of the country ; but for this cir.
cumstance the township must have settled with rapidity, as the land in
it is generally goodi and its position on the Ottawa afibrds great facilities
for sending produce to market.

Were no precautions taken to prevent so large a portion of any town-
ship being taken up in this manner by persons who made no attempt to
settle ?

As soon as I was aware of (he fact that the land in this township had
been so taken up, I applied to Major Ilillier, Secretary to the* Governor,
complaining of the injury that would be inflicted on the township, by
this manner of disposinu; of the land, and he assured mc (hat positive
instructions hud been giveu, that no more than one-third of any town,
ship should be disposed of in this manner, and therefore that the Land
Board must have exceeded their authority. As however the grants had
been made the mischief was beyond remedy. The settlement of the
township was however for many years almost stopped, and is still great*
ly retarded by this circumstance, and townships in the rear of this with
no better quality of land, and the settlement of which was l)cn;un at a
later period, are at the present time thickly settled, while hardly a
fourth of Fitxroy can be considered as settled.

But these absentee holders are, I presume, ready to dispose of their
land to purchasers upon reasonable terms ?

This is the case sometimes, but generally when they can alTord to hold
their lands, they are reluctant to sell, under the impression that some
improvements will be made in the navigation of the Ottawa, which would
give a greatly increased value to lauds of the town&hip.

What rfTect hai (he state uf tliingt which ynu have been dcacribing,
produced nnon the ilalo of the rcadi« in the to\vnKhi|> ?

The small number ofiottlcrs in the township have been quite unable
to make, I will not say good, but even paisable roadii, during a conii<
derable portion of (ho year, endowing, I presume, to tho acanty popu*
lation of thii part of (he country, which prevent them from havinc any
influence in the Legislature, tho grants for the improvements of (he
roads in that part of Uie country have been very small even in compariton
with those in other parts of the country, where a faimilar necessity did
not exist to any thing like an equal extent. lu consequence of (his state
of the roads, (he settlers in Fitzroy and the neighbouring townships
frequently take their grain to mill* a considerable distance, aUhough
there is a mill in the township, to which they would more naturally
come, if (hey were able, and (lie prosperity of (he settler* is greatly re.
tarded by (ho circumslance.

Is (he township of Fitzroy, the only township bordeiing on the Ot*
tawa, in which a state of things such as you have described exists ?

I do not know of any other townships which were granted in (his way
(o militia claimants, but in all the townships between Dytown and Mon-
treal, the lands fronting on (he Ottawa have been shut up by old mili.
tary grants, the proprietors of which are absentees, and the land still a
wilderness. In (his wav settlement has been forced up at least GO miles
to places where land still remains in tho hands of Government, und is
open for location.

I presume too that (he lands frondng on tho river, being in this manner
witnheld from settlemen(, must virtually shut out from settlement, a
considerable tract of land in the rear ?

Yes, such has actually been the case.

What in your opinion would be the effect of such a tax upon (he wil-
derness land, as would make it the interest of (hose holders of wilderneas
land, to improve it or dispose of it to actual settlers, and (he whole pro-
duce of which should be specifically applied to improving the communi-
cations, and facilitating the settlement of (he coun(ry ?

The effect of such a tax would be in my opinion to cause n very rapid
settlement of the lands upon thr banks of the Ottawa, which would
naturally spread back upon land at present locked up from settlement
by these unoccupied grants, and would tend very gcneriiily to develope
(he resources of the country. The population ofFitzroy, the greater
part of which is settled upon my grant would be at this time probably
threefold had such a system been pursued.

Has any injurious ctfcct been produced in yoor township by (he re-
serves for a protestant clergy 1

1 am not aware that there is any injurious effect since these reserves
at first formed only a portion of the wilderness appropriated land, and
they'liave been practically more open for settlement than land which has
been granted to private individuals.

Then a portion at least of the Clergy Reserves in the township of Fitz-
roy have been disposed of ?

They have.

The settlement of that township was begun 19 years ago?

It was.

What is the present population of (he township ?

About 1100.

To what religious denomination does the population chiefly belong ?

Iicei) ilcacribing,

ten quite unable
(luriug a conii.
:lio §canty popu*
from having any
rovemcnta o? (lie
on in companion
liar necessity did
ence of this state
uring townships
stance, although
I more naturally
lers is greatly re.

oiing on the Ot>
bed exists ?
anted in this way
lytown and Mon-

up by old milL
i the land still a

at least 60 miles
vernment, und is

g in this manner
tm settlement, a

IX upon the wil-
srs of wilderness
I the whole pro-
g the communi-

use a very rapid

which would

from settlement

ally to develope

oy, the greater

time probably

ship by the re-

tliesc reserves

ated land, and

land which has

wnship ofPitz-

ffo?

liefly belong ?

i'<i

' " * .

1 . ' I 'I

'••- .

! t I

.Ilii

)1..

They arc chiefly Presbyterians firom Scotland aud the north of FrcitinJ.
Have any part of the proceed* of the Clergy RciiCrVt'« been a|»|ilicd in

ndinir rel

for tl

bitant* of (li

instruction
No not in arty wny.

Does the appropriation of so largo n pnrtinn of the landH of ilu* town-
hhip to a purpose frutn which the inhabitants have recrivrd no benefit,
produce any feeling of discontent ?

I hm not aware that it doc*i, further (lian the general feeling that ilicsu
rchcrves KhonM not bo appropriated to the support of one church only.
From tlio cvidchCe given to tills commission by Mr. Radonhursit,
Chief Clerk in the SUrvevor General** ofllce, it appear* that there dues
hot remairtat the dUposalof th^ Crown, in the surveyed diitricls, inoru
than about 1,500,000 acres, have you from any circiiiii tauci'4 been led
to form any opinion as to the quantity of laud aVailaltV- for sctlleinent in
the unsurveycd y)arl8 of the Province I

In addition to a blotk of lahd situated to the north of the Canada Com-
pany's Huron tract, and which, most coulaiii from two to throe million
acres, there is a lai^gc uniurveyed tract between Lake Ncpiissing and
the ridge which runs in a North East direction, from Lake Simcoc,
which would 6ontain probably Frorti flve to seven millions of acres of
good land. I hitVc , been particularly led to tura my attention to the
fatter tract of land, in cbniequence of tny having for several years been
eitcaged in endcfaivoariiig to carry Intb cfRfct a olan Tor making a iiavi.
gable communication between Lake HUroii aiiu the Ottawa, and im-
proving the navigation of that trivfer. Wbre this effected this latter largo
tractor land would be opened for aettlera^nt, and would be nearer to
England than any part of Upper Canada, to the west of Lake Ontario.
In addition to rendering accessible for the purpose of settlement, (his
large tract of valuable mnd, the plan to which I have referred would
make Upper Canada the outlet for the increasing trade of the fertile
regions ofthe North West portion of America, which it would at once
brine five hundred miles nearer the ocean, and would secure to Montreal
and Qoebec the larger portion of the trade of that region.

From the accounts which you have received, do you imagine that tlic
tract of land in question, is by the circumstances of soil and climate,
titled tb maintain a larg« agricultural population ?

From the report of my son, who travelled through this part of the
country, with a view to discover a navigable communication to Pcnc-
♦anguishenc, by order of Colonel By, in 1829, and also from traders
who have traversed that region in almoit every direction, and who
concur in expressing the same opinion. I have no doubl that the soil
is Huflicionlly fertile fur all agricultural purposes, and (he clirnale niid
situation healthy. I have no doubt lliat to the \v!>?t\varj of Lake
Nepissing, even to Lake Superior, the country is pcrlcctly fit for set-
tlement, (ind agriciillnre. In fact to the north of what ii.tr, as yet been
considered the boiimlary line of Upper Canada, I liavc no doubt that
an agricultural population of several niillions inigl.t be most aJvau-
(ageoHsly settled. p

i M

;

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The Honorable and Venerable John Strachan, D« D. Archdeacon of

York.

'•1 '-»

;,-V,

.■!,(■

■L ■>•/. n

How long have yon resided in this country ?

Thirty-nine years.

You are, I believe, a member of the corporation for the management
of Clergy Reserves ?

I am, but that corporation has not met for the last four years, and
never had any power, but that of leasing^ Clergy Reserves, subject to
the approbation of the Governor in Cou ncil. ,,^.,',|

Of what do these Clergy Reserves consist 1

They consist of a portion equal to one-seventh of the granted lands in
this Province, and they amount to about two and a quarter millions of
acres.

A portion of these reserves have, I understand, been sold under an
Act of the Imperial Parliament, has this sale been conducted in any
manner to effect injuriously the interests of the Clergy ?

I can hardly say it has beeu, the commissioners on the whole have
acted fairly.

, Have there not been very frequent complaints of the injurious ten-
dency of these reserves^ as regards the prosperity and improvement of
the Province, by interposins; blocks of wild lands among the settled parts,
thus impeding tlie means of communication, and of transporting pro-
duce in the country ?

Such complaints have frequently been made, but I believe unjustly.
From. my inquiries a few years ago, on the occasion of the attempted
salie to the Canada Land Company, I found a greater number of inha-
bitants in proportion, on the Clergy sevenths than upon the granted
lands of the Crown, as they offered facilities to settlers which cannot
otherwise be obtained.

Hhs the reserve of this portion of the lands of the P''. /ince for the
support of the Clergy of one denomination produced any, and if any, what
state of feeling adverse to the peace and tranquility of the Province P

For the last eighteen years, u question has been raised by the minis-
ters of the Kirk of Scotland, claiming an equal right in the reserves
with that of the Church of England ; this has excited a great deal of
trouble, because all denominations joined the Kirk of Scotland, in the
hopes of obtaining a share, as they contend, that if the Clergy Reserves
are not given to the Church of England exclusively, they have all an
equal right.

But am I to understand that in your opinion, if these reserves were
given to the church of England exclusively, all denominations, with the
exception of the Kirk of Scotland would be satisfied, and the troubles
which have been occasioned by the agitation of this question put an
end to?

Had the Imperial Parliament, at an earlier period given a firmer de-
cision upon the subject, or had the true meaning of the Imperial Act
been settled by a judicial proceeding, little or no excitement would have
been raised in the Province by any denomination whatever, excepting
the Kirk of Scotland ; but leaving the question unsettled, it has>gardually
acquired greater and greater importance, and from the opinions respect-
ing the intention of the Act given by the Crown lawyers, in 1819, and
by a Committee of the House of Commons, in 1828, neither confirmed

. Arcbdeacoa of

the management

four years, and
erves, subject to

granted lands in
arter millions of

in sold under an
snducted in any

the whole have

le injurious ten-
improvement of
' the settled parts,
'ansporting pro-
believe unjustly.
»f the attempted
number of inha-
poii the granted
rs which cannot

?.'. .'Ince for the
,andif any.what
lie Province ?
ed by the minis-
in the reserves
a great deal of
Scotland, in ihe
Clergy Reserves
hey have all an

>e reserves were
ations, with the
and the troubles
question put an

ven a firmer de-
he Imperial Act
[lent would have
tever, excepting
, ithas>gardually
•pinions respect-
s, in 1819. and
ither confirmed

...I

il i

. 1

by any judicial proceeding, hopes have been raised among the members
of the Kirk of Scotland, and among all denominations (not even except-
ing the Roman Catholics) that the provision set apart '^ir the Protestant
Clergy, by the Constitutional Act, would be entirely broken down and
, distributed among all parties.

And disappointment would tend to endanger the peace of the country ?

It does not appear to me that a grave and constitutional proceeding
upon the subject would create any great excitement in the Province
other than di ippointment, where a great interest affecting a number of
people is invoii-ed. It has always been my opinion since the question of
reserves was agitated, that it should be referred to the Imperial Go-
vernment, in whose decision, I have always believed, and still believe,
there would be a general acquiescence.

•?* ' •'■"*i I'; "i y"ii7 :''r'l;i-< f f^'f; ',"1 r^ffj r» _u .

ill

Reverend Egerton Ryeraon, Minister of the Wesleyan Charch of

Toronto.

i).

ill

I';

How long have you resided in this Province ?

I am a native of this Province, a(nd have resided here the greater part
of my life.

You are a Minister of one of the most numerous and influential denom-
inations of Chrstians P ' •'"•■■• :

Probably the most numerous.

You must have had many opportunities of knowing the general feeling,
both religious and political, of this PMviiice, and the eircumstances that
have affected its prosperity and tranquility f

From my long residence and extetlsive acquaintance with the inhabi-
tants, I have had such opportunities.

What in your opinion has been the effect of Clerg}' Resen'es considered
only as a means of withholding a large portion bf the country from the
acquisition of settlers and then keeping it waste ?

I think they have tended very materially to impede the settlement and
improvement of the Province in these respects ; by being interspersed
among those parts which were open for settlement, they exposed the set-
tler to great inconvenience in making roads, and they reduced the value
of the neighbours farms by their remaining in a wild state. It is true,
I understand, they might be obtained on lease, but in general settlers
would not occupy Clergy reserves, when they could obtain land in fee
simple.

Do you imagine the appropriation of Clergy Reserves to the support of
a Clergy of one demonination exclusively, has produced any effects inju-
rious to the peace and tranquility of the Province ?

I think the peace of the Province has been and is most seriously affect-
ed, and that it must continue to be so, as long as the cause is allowed to re-
main ; the vast majority of the inhabitants are opposed to this appropria-
tion of the Clergy Reserves, and their numbers and the strength of the
feeling upon this subject, are constantly increasing. There has perhaps
been no period at which the dissatisfaction arising from tliis cause was
greater than at the present period.

Ill what manner should you be disposed to recommend, that these re-
serves should be appropriated in future, with a view to prevent the con-
tinuance of such a state of feeling as you have described ?

I should recommend that they should be appropriated entirely to
educational purposes, and this I believe to be the general opinion of the
Province. I do not see any prospect of a peaceful adjustment of the ques-
tion in any other manner, there would probably be found insurmountable
difficulties in the way of division amongst different sects, and the l'celin"-s
fif a large portion of tho community would be altogether opposed to such
an npplication of the funds which they might produce.

It J

in Church of

the greater part
influential denom-

he general feeling, |
lircumstances that f

with the inhabi- ;

Resen-es considered |
country from the

the settlement and
being interspersed

,ey exposed the set-

ey reduced the value
state. It is true,

ut in general settlers
obtain land in fee

res to the support of
uced any effects inju-

most seriously affect-
cause is allowed to re-
sed to this appropria-
the strength of the
There has perhaps
rora this cause was

mend, that these re_
to prevent the con-
bed ?

)ropriated entirely to
neral opinion of the
ustment of the ques-
bund insurmountable
ects, and the feelings
iher opposed to such
:e.

Reyerend WUliam TurnbuH Lynch, a Minister of the Church of Scot-
land, Toronto.

How long have you resided in this country ?

I came out in 1832, and have been in this country since then, with
the exception of six months spent in England.

What have been your opportunities of ascertaining the state of feel-
ing in the coanlry,and the causes which have effected its tranquillity and
prosperity ?

In addition to the general opportunities which occur during a six
years residence in the colony, I was engaged for fifteen months as mis-
sionary, and during that time I travelled extensively through the Province

What in your opinion has been the effect produced on the prosperity
of the Province by the existence of the Clergy Reserves ?

I am not of opinion that they have acted injuriously with regard to
the cultivation of the country, or that they have affected injuriously,
the interest of the community certainly not in the settled districts, though
they may have done so in the back settlements.

What effect has been prod uced with regard to the peace and tranquilli-
ty of the country by the appropriation of the Clergy Reserves for the
benefit of one religion only i

I believe it has been one of the chief causes of dissension and dissatis-
faction, and to have tended materially to produce tho late unhappy dis-
turbances, nor do I think tranquillity will be restored until the present
destination of those lands is changed.

What course would you from your observation of the state of feeling
in this country upon the subject be disposed to suggest for the future dis-
posal of these Clergy Reserves ?

I should recommend an equal division among the leading Protestant
sects. Episcopalian, Presbyterians of the Church of Scotland, and the
Methodists ; at the same time, it may perhaps be advisable that the
RcAnan Catholics should not be omitted in the distribution, though their
numbers seem to me not so considerable as to require an equal portion.
it would be altogether contrary to my principles, but I believe that an
appropriation of the Clergy Reserves for educational purposes only would
give satisfaction to the great mass of people, though not to the most in**
fluential class of this community.

■■!«l

Ik. J

11. '

. : • : i I

Oi'j •:.

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.;";:' Mi ■ I'n
'■. ('■''' •' ■'

The Reverend Robert Hill Thornton, Minister of a Presbyterian Con-
p;i-egation in Whitby, U. C. in connection with the United Seccession
Church. ? «! hi, ,,- T ,.r 'i f>- •,,.-,;,.., ;

' How long have you been a resident in this Province ?

1 have resided here since July, 1833.

What opinion have you been led to form during; that period of the oper-
ation of the system of Clergy reserves, as regards both the prosperity and
tranquillity of the Province i

I think that they have been one of the greatest barriers to the prosperity
of the Province, they stand in the way of roads and other public improve-
ments, and impede the operations of the settlers in the neighbourhood uf
such lots, in many cases these lots intervene between the settlers and
mills and markets, and the roads through them must remain unmade, or
be made with great sacrifice by the poor settlers in their rear, in fact it
keeps them poor, for I have known instances where persons might have
brought their grain to a good market, but for this state of roads, and
where as it is they are compelled to wait till the frost has formed a road
when can bring out some small portion of their produce.

But the Cler<;y letserves are not, I presume, the only lands which arc
thus kept waste to the injury of the settlers, and the retarding the advance
of the Province ?

No any large block of land would have the same effect, but the injur!.,
oiis effects of the Clergy reserves are most felt in the settled part ot the
country. These reserves have been a constant subject of irritation
throughout the Province, and their disposal has frequently been brought
before the House of Assembly. In fact it is impossible to describe the
interest which has been excited upon the subject, whenever it has
been under discussion, the people anticipating a final adjustment of
the matter. The constant agitation of this topic has produced a very in-
jurious effect upon the feelings of the country. Anticipating a division
of this property among different sects, they have become more embittered
towards each other, and this bitterness has been transferred to general
politics. Since I have been in the Province I have marked public opinion
changing upon the subject ; at first the general opinion appeared to be
that it should be divided among all religious sects, but latterly there has
been a preponderance of feeling in favor of its appropriation to purposes
of general benefit, such as education, &c. One main cause of this change
of opinion has been that the people have become more alive to the
miserable stale of education throughout the Province, and the growing
conviction among people well disposed to religion, that however liberally
a Pricslhood may be endowed, they can do nothing effectual without an
educated people. There is in fact not the slightest chance of tranquillity
in the Province, so long as this question remains unsettled, it has made
almost every man in Canada a politician, and all alike declare that there
can be no peace until the Clergy Reserve question is settled. I do not
wish to be understood as representing this feeling as unanimous through-
out the country, but I believe it to be decidedly the preponderating
feeling.

Presbyterian Con;
United Seccession

■

■ ■' ■l'<j ! .'i.J! i

peiiocl of the oper- 1

•jir-i! >'.--rr

tlie prosperity and I

■^ : ;,'.»l '., J. .if

;rs to the prosperity I
her public improve- I
! neighbourhood of m

. 'id (.-•",! ^
1 : ;• i-il) !,! ;

1 the settlers and 3

. m; .'.':'

remain unmade, or 1

. : . : !'■.■•. ■'

ir rear, in fact it 1

, ' : . •■;.' il

persons might have f
i state of roads, and

has foroied a road

.■[,■■■

■ : •

'1
f lands which iare '\

;•..,; ■ '. . fi

larding the advance j

. .,• .. .

ict, but the injur!,
e settled part ot the
ubject of irritation
intly been brought
iible to describe the
whenever it has
final adjustment of
produced a very in-
icipaling a division
me more embittered
nsferred to general
irked public opinion
ion appeared to be
; latterly there has
priation to purposes
ause of this change
3 more alive to the
;, and the growing
at however liberally
(Teclual without an
ance of tranquillity
settled, it has made
e declare that there
settled. I do not
nanimous through-
he preponderating

Reverend TTt/Ztam iSf^uar^ of BrockTiile» Minister of tho United Sy*
nod of the Presbyterian Church of Upper Canada.

, : How long have you resiided in this Province ?
.'! Twenty-eight years.

What nave been your opporcunities of ascertaining the operation of
the system of Clergy Reserves upon the prosperity of the Province, and
the feeling with which that system is regarded by tlio inhabitants ?

From my long residence in the country, and general acquaintance with
every part of the Province, liaving travelled as a missionary over the
whole of it, Ihave had very extensive opportunities of observing the
effects of the system upon the prosperity of the country, and the senti-
ments with which it is regarded.

You have heard the evidence of Mr. Thornton, do you concur in the
opinion which lie has expressed upon this subject ?

Decidedly.

Are there any circumstances that you would wish to state in addition ?

I should desire to state that, the body with which I am connected
would be generally perfectly satisfied with the appropriation of the Clergy
Reserves for the purpose of genera! improvemeut, but in the case of a
division, they would require that thu proceeds should be equally divided
among all sects alike.

1,1 tv'i ■;..'

■(!;■• i

rl.C ■'

'ra

i:;^

I. .1

1 11

i M

Reverend John Roof, Minister of the Congreffational Church, Toronto.
How long have you resided in this Plrovincef

I have lived here a year.

What have your opportunities of acquiring information been ?

I am Agent for the Colonial Missionary Society, and am therefore
called upon to spend a great deal of time io travelling, to visit churches
of our order, throughout the Province.

What has been the effect of Clergy Reserves in your opinion as regards
the settlement and cultivation of the Province 1

I am unable to speak from ray own experience, but I have heard
almost every where complaints of the evil which they have occasioned
in this respect ; persons have been prevented from settling in the neigh-
borhood of Clergy Reserves, because they would have to make roads
round them to get to their own property, and because they afford a re-
treat to wild beasts, and in this way I believe them to have operated
most iRJuriously.

What effect has been produced on the peace and tranquillity of the
country, by the appropriation of the Clergy Reserves, to the use of the
Church of England only ?

It has produced a great deal of bitterness towards the members and
clei^y of the Church of England, and has been the cause of dissatisfaction
and (listrust of the Government.

What course would you adopt in the future disposal of Clergy Re-
serves ?

I should recommend that they should be entirely appropriated for the
purposes of education, I believe this is the general opinion, but in failure
of this measure, I would rather see them re-invested in the Crown, than
divided among the different religious sects.

liS-' •'

;<i

ropriated for the
n, but ia failure
le Crown, thaa

Ihnrcb, Toronto.

/Ci

}ioion as regards

anquillity of the
to the use of the

le members and
of dissatisfaction

The Right Revd. Alexander McDonelf, Bishop of Regiopolis.

How long have yon resided in this Province ?

For 35 years.

You are I believe the head of the Catholic Church in this Province ?

I am.

What in your opinion have been the effects produced upon the peace and
prosperity of the Province of Upper Canada, by the application of the
Clergy reserves^ to the exclusive support of the Clergy of one demomina-
tionl *

The effect of it is to have raised a very great a^^itation among people of
all classes, and especially the Presb3rterians. I do not imagine it pos-
sible that the agitation thus produced, can subside until the question is
settled one way or the other.

But do you imagine that the agitation thus produced would be allowed
to subside, if the question were determined in favor of the Church of Eng-
hind?

I am sure that it would not, it would on the contrary be increased, and
could not fail to produce a general discontent in tlie Province. I think
that the only way in which the question could be settled with safety to the
Province, is by their being allowed to revert to the Crown, and in tliis I
think all parties would agree.

■h i ' 5

mJ -J.

it 1:1^

66
APPENDIX TO EVIDENCE FOH UPPER CANADA.

No. I. I

STATEMENT of the Surveyed Lands in the Province of Upper Canada,
of the Clergy Reserves, granted cr appropriated, and vacant landa.

t> < i District.

Contents.

Clergy
Reserves.

Granted
or appro-
priated.

Vacant.

Remarks.

Eastern,

779480

104791

673315

1374

r SO,aRO acrn ladiaa
\ Land.

Ottawa,

709720

97327

523069

89324

Johnstown,

1021000

141646

864964

14390

Bathurst,

1165900

157283

696995

311622

Prince Edward,

213800

26200

187600

• •

Midland,

1841002

248S56

1232126

360020

Newcastle,

1970600

i 273660

1320740

376200/2.600 >cr(.Indi..
! ^ Land.

Home,

2879900

413333

2105677

355890'|

Gore,
Niagara,

1180400
564100

146940
25450

1030781
537580

2679-1257,000 acKiIndi.

an land in thcMdii-

in7n "''^^'•- 42,000 acr«t

lU/U' Co. Co. in Goif dii.

Talbot,

383200

52400

330700

100

London,

1655400

238019

1349731

67650 i S0,S60 acrcf Indita
j, I Laodi.

Western,

1617300

211240

1389560

16700

r S7|S00 acrci Indian
1. Laod.

15982002

: 2142145

12242838

1597019^

Deduct for roads,

450000

96400
157142

318000
1 100000

Indian lands S. 1
ofDundas str.J

15532002

318000

IICOOOO

r Cly. Rei. for tbs

< Sii Nation! lodians
(.in Gore district.

r Clergy RcMrvci

< taken in the Huron
(.tract.

16950002

2395687

13660838

n.'i

Surveyor General's Office, "I

Toronto, U. C. 22d. Sept. 1838. /

II!'

CANADA.

No: a.

f Upper Canada,
vacant landa.

Remark!.

' 80,380 acre* Iadi«a

lAOd.

\ 2,600 icret Indita
L Land.

9 1 S.i7.000 acrci Indi.

I an land in tbeiadit-

- ftricti. 42,000 acrn

U ' J Co, Co. iu Goit dii.

q! C S0,I60 acret Indiai
j{ I Laadi.

S7,500 acres ladiaa

»;{

Land.

Cljr. Rei. for tlia
Sii NatioDi lodiau
ia Gore diitrict.

(Clergy RcierTci
(akea in tlie Huron
tract.

A Statbmbnt of the quantity of land, described, located, or for which
authorities are lodged in the Surveyor General's Office, in favrr of
U. £. L. and Militia claimants.

U. E. Loyalists.

Acres unlocated.

321950

Acres located, i Acres described.

150800

2734239

Total.

3206989

Militia Claimants.

204332

124376

402001

730709

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 22d Sept. 1838.

I ll

•;r»

S .oJfl

No. 3.

A Return of the number of acres of Crowa Land granted from July,
1804, to January, 1819, under the Regulations of the Gth July,
1804, subject to the payment of fees. *

Total'-388,263 acres.

j..,.f wl ,1 J.

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 10th Oct. 1838.

11^

Ji'1

No. 4.

tt.^

A Retura of the number of acres of Crown Lands granted under the
Regulations of the Ist January, 1820.

Total— 72,228 acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

2d October, 1838.

I,-;

I ted from July,
of the 6th July.

No. 6.

A Return of the number of Acres of Crown Lands described for patent
(lurini; the time Settlement duty was in force, namely from the 14tU
November, I8I8, to the ht July, \S'Sr>.

Total— 2,078,487 Acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 10th October, 1838.

No. 6.

iDted under the

A Relurn of the number of Acres of Government Land for which des.
criptions have issued since the 1st of July, 1635, the period at which
.Settlement duties were dispensed with, on Grants to U. E. Loyalists and
Militiamen.

Total— l,0G2,30O Acres.

Suveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 4th October, 1838.

to
No. 7.

A Ruturn of llic number of Acres of Crown Lands granttvl umlcr tin
Hcfrulationa of 1825, (without purchase.)

Total — 15,100 Acres, being under the Quit llent svsteni.

Surveyor General'H Otlice,

Toronto, 10th October, I83S.

^!:

N. B. — The original Grantees under this regulation on application to
the Lieutenant Governor in Council, now receive their patents on pay-
ment of the fees of 1804 ; the Regulation itself has become obsolete.

?
U

No. 8.

Return of the number of Acres of Land granted to discharged Soldiers
and Seamen.

WA^i

Previous to 3 1 St December, 1825— 112,'iOO Acres.
Subsequent to 31st December, 1825—337,200 Acres.

Surveyor General's OUice,

Toronto, 10th October, 1S3S.

No. I>.

inttvl uMilcr the

UcliiiM ol (I)'.' number ol ktos of Crowd LinJ ^raatcil lo Mii^lUrattj' .ml
Burrister*

Total — 2j.'),oOO Acre*.

Surveyor General's Olllcc,

Toronlo, IJlli October, \>iJ!i.

■i

on application to
patents on pay-
tuc obsolete.

IVo. 10.

Return of the number of acres of Crown I^and granted to Clergymen of
different denominations.

scharged Soldiers

Sect,

Church of England,
Presbyterian,
Roman Catholic,

Total — Acres

Xo. of Acres.

29,200
3.000

•1,700

36,900

Surveyor General's OfHce,

Toronlo, Ijlh October, 1838.

No. II.

Return of the number of Acres of Crown Lands granted to Executivo
Councillors and,their families.

m^.

[mi

\f.

Name of the Grantee.

Hon. Alexander Grant,
'Alexander Grant, Jan.

Bella Grant,

.'Vrcliange Grant,

Phillis Grant,

Theresa Grant,
^ ■<( Rctscv Grant,
° I Ncllv"Grant,
~ j Nancy Grant,
I I Mary Grant,
^ (_Mrs. Theresa Grant,

Hon, Peter Russell,
Si.tcr of Peter -lj,,i^^j^j^^^^^„
Kusseil, J

Hon, Henry Allcock,

Fanii

H.AIl

y of 1 Catherme H, Allcock
cock J Mrs. Hannah Allcock,

No, of

Acres.

Hon

^•5

CO P

Samuel Smith,
^ . r^amuel Boies Smith,
Anna Smith,
Isabella Smith,
Finma L. Smitli,
Ciithcrine Smith,
Harriet L, Smith,

t_ ._
o c ^

Hon.

David William Smith,
f Mrs. Ann Smith,

Mary Elizabeth Smith,

Sarah Smith,

David W. Smith, Jan.
I John Smith,
l_lMrs. Ann Smith, (widow,)

Hon. John Elmsley^

T I T-f I ^ Mrs. Mary Eluislev
JohnElmBlcyJ ^

Carried over — Acres. .

Dale of the Orders in Council

60001 1 0th July, 1793, and Julv,l?'.)9.

1'200,">

12001

1200

1200 y21st
1200; I

August, 179G.

1200 J
1200

10th June, 1797.

GOOO 17th Oct. 1792,& Lt July, 1790
1200 ISth July, 1795.

COOOlst Dec, 1798 & 9th Feb, 1S07.
[^QQij 1st December, 1798,

428023d July, 1793.

1200 I bt December, 1 836.

1200

1200,1

1200 (

1200

1200 12th January, 1837.

;> 8th Mav, 1832.

7200
1200
1200
1200
1200
1200
1200

GOOO

Utii Jnlv, 179G, lOtli June 1797, nnd l.i Ji.Ir
1799.

Gth October, 1 79G.

2 1 St April. 1798.
Gth October, I79G.

1st July, 1799.
I5lli June, 1797.

G5400

ted to Executive

rdersin Council.

3, and JuIy,lW9.

, 179G.

1797.

2,&LtJuIy, 179'J
)5.

• & 9th Feb. 1S07.
er, 1798.

, 1836.

832.

1837.

ill June 1797) nnil 3>i Jilj

r, 179G.

'98.
I79G.

!).

Name of the Grantee.

Brought over. .

Hon. James Baby,
Mrs. Susan Baby, wife of James
Baby,

Hon. John McGill,
Mrs. Catherine McGill, wife of
John McGill,

Hon. WiUiam Dummer Powell,
Mrs. Ann Powell,
John Powell,
Grant Powell,
Jeremiah Powell,
Thomas Powell,
Ann Powell,
$: j Elizabeth Powell,
|_Mary Boyles Powell,

No. of
Acres.

Date of the Orders in Council.

6 5400

GOOOjIst July, 1799.
120023d July, 1793.
4th July, 1799.
6th October, 179*;.

GOOD

1200

o ^

Hon. W. Claus,

' William Chnis, Juu.
John Claus

Warren Claus,

S ^ I Mrs. Catherine Claus,
^ ^ I Mrs. Ann Clans, widow of

l_ Lieutefiant Col. Claus,

Hon. yEneas Shaw,
, T-'Eneas Shaw, Junr.
^ Alexander Shaw,

Charles Shaw,

George Shaw,

John Shaw,

Richard Shaw,

Isabella Shaw,
Sophia Shaw,
Ann Shaw,
Charlotte Stewart Shaw
, Mary Ralston,

Hon. Prideux Selby,

Hon. Thomas Scott,

Hon. Colonel John G. Simcoe,
Francis G. Simcoe, son of J. G.

Simcoe,

Carried over — Acres. .

29lli Dec. 1788, Ut June, 17:U, oUt Maiiij,
' 1V:I7. h 7tlt Dee. 1S02.

60001

12003ia January, 1797

12001 1

1200

>■ 11th December, 1797

)>27th August, 1790.

2000 2Gth Jan. I797& 14th June, ISll
1200 19th Jany, 1818.
12003rd Nov. 183G.
1 200 8(h August, 1833.
1200 19th Jany. 181S.

5000 14th April, 1798.

600029th July, 1795,& lstJuly,1799

1200

1200 5th September, 1833.

1200:5lh September, 1833.

1200jl2th August, 1833.

2000|27th July, 1797.

1200 1st June, 1802.

50009th July, 1794.

1200 18th June, 1795.

134880;

\\\

\ I

V-'m

k :

"8- S 5

^_-W o
§ S S

Name of the Grantee.

Brought over — Acres.

John Small, Esq.
.Mrs. Eliza Small,
'Joseph A. Small,
'John R. Small,
■ James E, Small,

Total— Acres. . 142960

Date of the Orders in Council.

Aug. 1797, 4th Dec.
5th October, 1796.
4th October, 1796.
14th March, 1811.
I4th March, 1811.

1806,

No 12.

A Return of certain large grants made to Legislative Councillors and

their families.

Name of the Grantee. ^Xctes.

Date of the orders in Council.

Honble. Robert Hamilton,

6060

<4J

' Robert Hamilton, junr.

1200

George Hamilton,

1200

1 «

Alexander Hamilton,

1200

James Hamilton,
Samuel Hamilton,

1200
1200

• 17th January, 1797.

amily
Ha

William R. Hamilton,

1200

John Robertson Hamilton,

1200

fc*

Peter Hamilton.

1200

Honble. Richard Cartwright,

4422

Ust June,179t,6th .Tmiy. 179f>, 4tli .lunclTii

g^ ^ Mrs. Magdalen Cartwright,

1200

■ 7th June, 1797.

o ^ ^ James Cartwright,

1200

>.p ^Richard Cartwright, junr.

1200

g t: /Hannah Cartwright,

1200

^(3 ^ Mary Cartwright.

1200

Honble. John Munro,

3200

29th June, 1793.

Harry Munro,

1200

John Munro, junr.

1200

z°

William Munro,

1200

"o § <^ Corneha Munro,

1200

• 1st July, 1797.

^'S Christiana Munro,

1200

1 Charlotte Munro,

1200

cj-i \^ Mary Munro.

1200

Honble. Henry Hay,

5000

22d June, 1793.

Thomas Fraser.

iiJdS

I4th August, 1797.

Total — Acres

49475

■ n.

I- -y

i^^l-l

No. 13.

¥■> >i

p-, .'

Schedule shewing the compensations made to Contractors and Surveyors
for making Surveys in the Province of U|)j)er Canada.

Names of Contractors and
Surveyors.

William Brown,
James G. Chewett,
Mahlon Burwell,
William Brown,
Daniel Mclntire,
Ezekiel Benson,
Ezekiel Benson,
Ezekiel Benson^
James G. Chewett,
James G. Chewett,
Gabriel Louiit,
Geo. Rich. Ferguson,
Samuel Rykemun,
Samuel Rykcman,
Samuel Rykeman,
Daniel Mclntire,
Thaddeus Davis,
Thaddeus Davis,
Daniel Mclntire,
James Pearson,
James G. Chewett,
Abraham Nelles,
Abraham Nelles,
Gabriel Lount,
Mahlon Burwell,
Biila Flint,
Zaccheus Burnham,
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Timothy Street,
John Galbraith,
Timothy Street,
Timothy Street,
Timothy Street,
RiciiartI Bristol,
Riciiard Biislol,
Ricliard Bristf)!.

2 u

« o

CO >%

O S

U CO

iSrPlanlagenel,
Medonic,
Loho,
Seymour,
Cr Mndoc — part of
SrMono
Essa,
Adjala,
Oro,
Albion,

West Guillimsbury,
!Cr Tyendinaga — Part of
Sr Eramosa,

Nesagiweya — North half of
Caledon — West part of
Cr Madoc — Part of
Niseouri,
Zorra,

Madoc — Part of
Innisfel,
Sr Caledon — East part of
Cr Esquesing — North part of
Erin— South half of
SrTecumseth,
Houghton,
Cr Marnjora,
Otonabec,
Sr Yarmouth — North part of
Southwold — South" part of
Cr Chinquacousy — Part of

iSr Mariposa,
Cr| Toronto, (Township) part of
Tratalgar— Part of
Esquesing — Part of
SrjToionto — Part of
]. . Cliiiiquucousy — Fart (;f
'. . Esquesing — Part of

Acres.

27U!»
280.'}
2195

1200"
2544
32a«
2310
3105
2G3-)
U)(iO
13.31
2030
f)73
IGS.".
1130
4290
o06<J
1120
3440
1400
1400
1720
2350
1505
34o()
3150
1026

719,,;

1900
3555
1000

850
800
GOO
1800
800

Carried i.ver,

74201

and Surveyors
lanada.

Acres.

2700

2803

2190

35151

1200"

2544

3253

2310

3105

2G35

I9G0

1331

2030

Ifof

f)73

iGsr.

1130

4290

5069

1120

3440

1400

1720

2350

1505

3436

3150

tot"

1026

, of

719,-

1900

3555

art of

1000

850

800

600

1800

800

i.VL-r,

r420-

2 u

Names of ContractorH and

U ' C

til >-

h 4*

Townships Surveyed.

Acres.

Surveyors.

i 1

77420

Richard Bristol,

Sr|Trafalgar — Part of

(iOO

Reuben Sherwood,

|. . Nasageweya — Part of

: 1000

Reuben Sherwood,

. . Nelson— Part of

1 1000

Reuben Sherwood,

. . Toronto — (The Gore ofj

900

Thomas Smith.

. . Sombra,

4445

Maidon Burwell,

. . Mosa,

' 2237

James G. Chewelt,

iVespra,

1970

Zaccheus Burnham,

lAshphodel,

1820

John Edward White,

SrThora,

2216

And. Borland & Wm. Roe,

Cr Orilla,

3851

John McDonald,

Clarence,

4201

John McDonald,

i. .

Gloucester — Part of

24G3

Duncan McDonell,

'• •

Cumberland and part of Gloucester

5(512

Duncan McDonell,

• •

Gloucester — Part of

1:221

William Browne,

• •

Alfred,

1320

John Smyth,

Ebzcver,

3447

John Bostwick,

;sr

Westminster,

1218

Thomas Horner,

Dawn,

3773

Samuel M. Benson,

Hungerford,

24GG

Allan Robinet,

Tosoronti,

2240

Allan Robinet,

• »

Mono — West part of

960

Samuel Rykeman,

|Sr

Erin — North part of

1723

Samuel Rykeman,

j. . parrapaxa.

4631

William Browne,

■ * *

Plautagcnel — Gore of

147G

Billa Flint,

Levant,

1818

Billa Flint.

• •

Torbolton,

795

Billa Flint,

• •

Fitjjroy,

1885

Billa Flint,

• •

Pakeiiham,

1920

Billa Flint,

• •

Darlinjf,

2880

Samuel M. Benson,

SrSheffiefd,

3158

John Goesman,

• 9

Tiny,

3803

Billa Flint,

Palmerston,

3114

Allan Robinet,

• •

Mulmur,

3572

Allan Robinet,

• •

Amaranth,

3248

Mahlon Burwell,

Zone,

2950

Mahlon Burwell,

Gosfield,

916

Mahlon Burwell,

• •

Raleigh,

2172

Abraham Nelles,

Harvey,

6100

Abraham Nelles,

• •

Burleigh,

4126

Abraham Nelles,

, «

Emily,

1114

Mahlon Burwell,

Sr;

Howard,

1714

Wm. McDonald,

. . Russell,

2550

Charles Hayes,

Belmont — Lake of Methuen,

8535

Samuel M. Benson,

S r Hinchinbrooke,

2437

Samuel M.Benson,

. . Bidford,

2858

M Carried over,

195875,r

1'8

'!??(

) -f'"' -
''i"i'.»

Names of Contractors and
Surveyors.

g ; -^

Townships Surveyed.

Abrahnm Nelles,
John Smyth,
James Kirkpatrick,
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Charles Fothergiil,
Reuben Sherwood,
George S. Boulton,
Owen Quinn,
Allan Robinet,
James G. Chewett,
Duncan McDonell,
Henry Ewing,
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Malhon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Wm. McDonald,
John Smyth,
John Smyth,
John Smyth,
Angus Cattenach,
Zaccheus Burns m,
Zachceus Burnham,
Andw. Borland & Wm.
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,
Mahlon Burwell,

Brought over.
Cr'j Blandford,

I Kaladar,

,Sr Fenelon,

L . East Tilbury,
West Tilbury,
Middleton,
Cr Verulam — Part of
I Sr Mac Nab,
Cr Verulam — Part of
I SrHorton,
Cr. . 'Melanclhon — Part of

Sr Mara,

. . jOps,

. . Eldon,

. . Sandwich,

L . JMaidstone,

I. . Hochesterf

I . lOrford— Part of

|. . jOrford— Part of

'. . jOsgoode,
jCrj Olden,
L . I Kennebec,
. |..l !Oso,

'. . Roxborough — Part of
Cr jDouro,
L . ' jDummer,
Roe'. . : jTay,

Sr Carradoc — Part of

1. . jSouthwold — Part of

!. . Karwich,

Acres.

195875,5
1129
3362
4147
2494
2306
1667
1870
5128
1870
1080
1300
2484
3054
4103
1578
2128
1584
600
354
5010
3034
3456
2475
1009
1669
2988
1930
1182
700
3475

2641.50,o'

I''

over. ,

Acres.

195875,5
1129
3362
4147
2494
2306
1667
1870
5128
1870
1080
1300
2484
3054
4103
1578
2128
1584
600
354
5010
3034
3456
2475
1009
1669
2988
1930
1182
700
3475

264 1. 50,?

No. 14.

Return of number of acres patented to the Canada Company, 1,393,388

Appropriated.

In blocks.. 1,100.000

Scattered Crown Reserves, 1,384,413

Remaining,

2,484,413
1,091,025

Surveyor General's Office,
Toronto, U. C. 5tli September, 1838.

No. 15

A Return of the number of Acres of Crown Land disposed ot by sale
for which descriptions have issued.

Total— 55,084i Acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

2nd October, 1838.

Hi*! ffl

im'

No. 16.

A Return ol'llie number of acres of Clergy Reserves for wliicli descriii-

tiotis have issued.

, it

Total— 73,806| acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 4lh October, 1838.

No. 17.

Return of the number of acres of School Lands under patent, viz: —

20,677 acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 10th October, 1838.

)r which descriit-

s Office,
October, 1838.

ler patent, viz : —
20,G77 acres.

I's Office,

h October, 1838.

No. 18.

Return of Lands granted to Officers of the Army and Navy in lieu of

Remission Money.

Total— 92,62G Acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 10th October, 1838.

No. 19.

A Return of the number of Acres of Crown Lands located, but not
described for Patent, exclusive of such as have been sold by
the Commissioner of Crown Lands.

i-m

Total— 795,400 Acres.

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, 16th October, 1838.

1 ^li

No. 20.

( ^

mil
1'

Return of the number of Acres of Land for which Orders in Council are
filed in the Surveyor General's Office, which remain unlocated, viz :

'iisei

To Emigrants, &c. — subject to the payment of Fees— 80,050 Acres.

To reduced Officers, Soldiers and Seamen — 106,300 Acres.

To Provincial Militiamen — 85,200 Acres.

To United Empire Loyalists, and Military Claimants "j

who served during the revolutionary war with 5> 295,200 Acres,
the United States, J

Surveyor General's Office,

Toronto, IGth October, 1838.

I in Council are
inlocated, viz :

i6,050 Acres.
Acres.

,200 Acres.

tober, 1838.

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NOV\ SCOTIA.

J. a. Morii.i, E»q.

Von are Surveyor CiCMt'ial uml OHnmijsioiier of C'ro.vu I^ands in tliii
Province ?

Yes

How long have you lillcd tliose situations ?

i was a|;|)oiiite(l C'oiiuiiiiHioner ol' Crown liuiils, 4tli May, l^'^T, ami
Surveyor General tlie (itii April, iH'il, on tlic resignation ol my I'atliLT,

Were you in the department previoug to the above time ?

Yes, I entered liie Surveyor Generar* Ortice in 1810, the Ollicc ut
Conimi:*9ioner of Crown L;in(l« was only constituted in 18'J7.

What was the system of selling public lands in this Province, previon*
to the formation of the Crown Liind Office, in \H2T '.'

Land was granted in lots, on the application of individual, to the Lieu-
tenant Governor and Council, either in townships or in separate allot-
ments, upon certain conditions of improvement, and upon the payuieni
of an annual quit rent, of Us. for each lOU acres, or a cpiit rent of a
farthing per acre.

Were any grants of land made on other terms than the above previous
to 1827 i-

A very sifiall proportion of land was granted by licence to individuaN
at the pleasure of the (iovernor for the time being ; some of those lands
have been disposed of, and sold by the original settlers, some have been
confirmed to them by grants, and the title of others has been confirmed
by Acts of the House of Assembly, giving title of occupation to those
of certain standing.

Does this system continue at the present time ?

No, the power of the Governor was altogether suspended by the gene-
ral instructions of 1827.

What quantity of land was granted in townships ?

About 1,563,070 acres.

What quantity was granted in separate allotments ?

About 0,380,000 acres,

>Vhat were the conditions of settlement and improvement rcciiiired of
proprietors of townships i*

The townships were granted on different terms.

What were the conditions required of proprietors in separate allot-
ments ?

They were also granted on different terms of tenure, according to the
period the grant was made. It is the duty of the Surveyor General to
prepare the plans and descriptions, but it rested with the Secretary of the
Province and the Attorney General, to attend to the terms of the grant.

Were the conditions generally conformed to ?

Not strictly in any case — in the townships particularly.

*-: ^

. 1

^\l

■

:■ Jl

' -i

'f'':

Jsii-i-

•if

■*■■■■

Are lands generally situated on bays or harbours ?

There are settlements having frontage on navigable waters.

Has there been any question raised as to escheating any o) the
grants lor non-compliance with the terms on which they were granted >

Yes, the question of Escheat has been raised more than once, and it
was held and determined, that the icnprovement made on a portion of grants
such as those settlements on the coast, were sufficient to protect the title
to the whole property.

Does the system of granting large blocks of land to individuals tend to
promote the general interest and improvement of the Province ?

Certainly not — on the contrary, it had a very great tendency to obstruct
the settlement of the country, as the individuals holding the large grants,
neglected to advance improvement.

Such grants having been made, what, in your opinion, would bo a
remedy for the evil complained of ?

A general tax on all wild lands, would seem to be the only remedy,
unless the Crown was to escheat grants, when conditions were not ful-
filled.

Have lands been escheated in the Province at diflferent periods ?

Yes, about 2,200,000 acres have been escheated the grantees not having
planted and cultivated the land, in compliance with the conditions of the
grant.

At what period did the greatest portion of the escheat take place ;
and does the system of escheat continue in operation to this time ? ■

A great portion of the escheat took place about 1783 on the arrival
of the Loyalist from theUnited States; a considerable portion of land was
escheated between 1816 and 1820, sincb that period, there have been
some few allotments escheated, and the last escheat took place 1834.

Did the forfeiture of land by the above escheat cause any additional
exertions to be made in promoting improvement by remaining proprietors ?

It does not appear to have produced much efl'ect.

Were these escheats generally contested by the parties concerned ?

In most cases they were, and there were many attempts to obtain
escheat without success

What is the system followed in escheat cases ?

It is required that a party should petition Government to escheat a
grant of land in consequence of non>fuliilment of conditions on the part
of the proprietor. The parties are referred to the Surveyor General, who
reports on the case, and if found to be one calling for interference from
Government, the Attorney General gives directions to have public notice
given, that at a period embracing upwards of twelve months, an inquest
will be held, and the case brought before the jury for their opinion.

In such cases is their a reference made to the Proprietors of the land .'

I am not aware of any other notice than the public notice given in the
Gazette.

Is there any objection to this mode of proceeding in cases of escheat ?

Yes, the expense and delay is suHicient to deter many persons from
prosecuting an escheat. The cost of an escheat for one acre is as much as
for 10,000 acres, when contained in one grant.

Who are the parties that incur the expense ?

The informant, who is also the person that applies for, and with fen ■.
exceptions has obtained the land, in some instances the informant has

■f

1 4'

'^^

iters.

r any ot tlic
were granted ?
in once, and it
portion of grants
protect llie title

viduals tend to
)vince 1

ency to obstruct
the large grants,

ion, would bo a

he only remedy,
IS were not ful-

, periods ?
antees not having
conditions of the

lieat take place ;
this time ?■
!3 on the arrival
ortion of land was
there have been
[k place 1834.
se any additional
ining proprietors ?

ies concerned ?
.tempts to obtain

nent to escheat a
itions on the part
kfeyor General, who
: interference from
( have public notice
lonths, an inquest
heir opinion,
•ietors of the land ?
notice given in the

cases of escheat ?
(lany persons from
2 acre is as much as

for, and with few
the informant has

only obtained a portion of the same, from its being a large block, and in
other cases information has been given by the public generally, who have
instituted the case, in order to rid themselves of a nuisance, by remov-
ing a monopoly and a check to improvement.

Can you state the amount of coats in cases of escheat .'

The whole expense is about £20, when the land is escheated without
opposition.

Was there any payment of quit rents previous to 1827 ?

Not that I am aware of.

All the land granted previous to 1827 was then liable to escheat at that
period, from non-payment of quit rent !

Yes.

What has been done in reference to the above, since 1827, when the
oflice of Commissioner of Crown Lands was instituted ?

In^827, all former proceedings as to grants of land were put an end
to, and a new system instituted. Lots of land were ordered to be laid
out in different parts of the Province, to the extent of from 100 to 200
acres each allotment.

The upset price was fixed at two shillings per acre, to convey the fee
simple of such land without any reservation, except as usual in cases of
mines and minerals, all previous grants remaing just as they were, without
any authority in the new regulation to interfere with them.

What steps were taken to carry out the new system ?

The instructions were published, and land was advertised for sale the
same year, but no sales were effected, the people had been getting land on
such easy terms, that there was an objection to the new system, and they
did not corae forward to purchase.

What was done in subsequent years P

The Commissioner of Crown Lands was authorized in the following
year to grant licences to poor settlers to the extent of from 100 to 200
acres, on payment of certain fees which were regulated by Her Majesty's
Council, the land soalloled was subjected to an annual quit rent of live
shillings for each 100 acres, and the grant was actually made on condi-
tion of settlement, which required that the proprietor should build a house
and reside on the ground nithin six months from the allotment being
made, this was evaded, in many instances, by the parties leaving their
land after a short residence.

Have any lands been sold under the regulations of 1 827 ?

Yes, altogether about 120,000 acres have been disposed of.

Can you furnish a list of the quantities sold in each year, with the
prices obtained **

They hdve been as follows : —
Acres,
In 1828— 5485 at 28. to 2s. 6d.
•• 1829— 2835

" 1830- 2470 " 2s. OJd.
" 1831—10411

" 1832—14879 " 2s. 3d.
" 1833—11461 28. 3d.
•» 1834—13221

Amount

paid

£140 6

89 9

99 19

647 11

1063 8

1076

802 6

-i

m': V

AciC3,

" 1835—24942
' 1836—14884
" 1837 — 17419

3?.

2s. 3d. to 3s.

Amount paid,
1349 y Tii
13.54 19 4 J
1038 7]

117997 £8201 10 7^ S"" Scu, c,.

Tlie accounts for 1838 are not made up, about 5,UO0 acres supposed to
be sold at an average price of 2s. 3d. per acre.

Has the upset price of Crown Lands been the same in all parts of tliu
Province ?

Yes.

Have the payments been punctually made by purchasers of Crown
Lands ?

No, it has been necessary in many instances t^ grant indulgence as to
payment for three years, the seasons have been more than usually bad,
but this only refers to sales made before January, 1837, since then the
terms have been casli, within 14 days after the sale. The lands have been
disposed of quarterly, having been advertised in the Gazette, and small
lots of land bave also been disposed of to individuals at the upset price ;
between the regular periods of public sale, there has been little or no
competition at the public sales, as will be seen by (he above list.

What is the greatest quantity of land disposed of in one lot since 1827 ?

One thousand acres.

Is there a quantity pointed out as the utmost to be disposed of in one
lot ?

Yes, 1 ,200 acres.

Has the greatest portion of the land disposed of since 1827, been occu.
pied by the purchasers ?

It has not.

What has led parties to acquire this land which they do not occupy .'

For the purpose of obtaining a future supply of fuel and to make use
of the timber growing on it, in some cases for speculation.

Is the upset price of two shillings and three pence currency, the best in
your opinion for the interest of the country?

I think a higher price would in a great measure put a stop to the sales
of Crown Lands, as individuals are selling lands at not more than the
upset price, and in some cases for still less money.

Have you an increasing demand for Crown Lands ?

The demand has gradually increased ; but I do not ihilk a liiglier
price than 2s. 3d could be obtained at present.

Has the quit rent, applicable to grunts previous to 1827, been extended
to the lands sold since that period ?

Not to lands sold.

What arrangements have been made respecting the quit rents alluded to?

In 1835, the House of Asssmbly commuted the quit rents for the sum
of £2000 annually, to be paid by the Province, towards the Governor's
salary.

I.S it lobe understood that no quit rent or tax on lands at present e.x-
ists in the Province ?

There does not.

Are the proprieters of land by the arrangement, altogether relieved
from the obligation of quit rents ?

I paid.

icres supposed (u
nail parts of lliu

chasers of Crown

t indulgence as to
than usually bad,
837, since then the
he lands have been
razette, and small
t the upset price ;
as been little or no
bove list,
ne lot since 1827 ?

isposed of in one

B 1S27, been occu.

do not occupy .'
and to make use
3n.
•rency, the best in

stop to the sales
not more than the

It thi'ik a liiglier
37, been extended

it rents alluded to?
rents for tlic sum
Is the Governor's

ids at present e.x-

Logether relieved

The House of Assembly, I conceive might levy a quit rent ; at present
no quit rent exists.

All claims for arrears of quit rent are understood to be disposed of.'

I do not know in what light the House of Assembly may view it.

"When grants arc made to purchasers of Crown Lands, how are the
parties put in possession ?

A Surveyor proceeds, by direction of the Surveyor General, to mark
out the land appropriated to the party, he commences at some known
boundary, and from thence finds out the lot in question, and marks iiil
its angles and boundaries.

When you speak of a known boundary, does it imply tiic nearest pla(\>
alrea<ly appropriated to tliat intended to be located or granted ?

It is the angle of some former grant, the boundary ofwhich is marked
or it is some natural boundary, that cannot be mistaken ; when the snr-
vey is completed, it is entered in the Surveyor General's office.

From the above system, it follows, that by one lot being imperfectly
surveyed, all those measured from it must be in error ?

Great pains have been taken lately to avoid error in surveys, but from
previous surveys, the above mischief is very likely to occur.

Are there many instances of litigation in consequence of inaccurately
defined boundaries ?

Very many.

Does this system tend to check settlement and improvement in the
country, and to prevent transfer and settlement of property ?

I do not think it has any effect as yet in Nova Scotia, because wild
lands are not yet sufficiently valuable, but it may be apprehended, that
at a future period great difficulties will occur in reference to the boun-
daries of land.

Would such apprehension have weight with persons desirous of invest-
ing capital in this Province in the purchase of land ?

No doubt it would.

What would you recommend as a remedy to the present system ?

The Surveyor General ought to be authorized to employ persons to run
such lines as he should point out as necessary, and in many instances to
rr lew the boundaries of old grants, and in some instances to form the boun-
daries of grants and townships that have not yet been surveyed. It would
be necessary also to stop the practice of persons employing unqualified
Surveyors, many of whom are probably also incapable, these persons do
the business on any terms, having no responsibility in what they do.

Are there a sufficient number of qualified Surveyors in the Province to
do all the work required ?

There would if they were protected by proper laws, but at present there
is a difficulty to find persons to lay out the Crown Lands, the Deputy
Surveyor having to combine other occupations with this office, in order
to get a living, and it is considered quite secondary.

What expense is incurred for surveys ?

From 3d. to 5d. per acre, depending on circumstances, such as dis-
tance and nature of the country, and difficulty in ascertaining the lot in
question

Has the system of granting lands to leaders and associates at any time
been in duration in this country ?

There vr .s a system of the kind originally, but nothing of the kind of
late years.

r 'I

I ■. I

i i

Wlieii the system was practised, had it the effect of causiii:;' land
granted to leaders and associates to pass into the hands of leaders ?

Yes it had.

Do you know in any cases what price land was purchased for, from
the associates ?

1 do not know, it was frequently something very trifling.

In what sized blocks were the land of the Province disposed of?

From blocks of from 11, 000 to 15,000 acres.

Are there any proprietors at present m possession of any such property s'

I do not believe there are any proprietors who now posse»<s more than
15,000 acres in the Province, and that nuantity divided into difVerent
blocks, except in the instance of Messrs. Lyons and Wright, and others
included in the list, and whose original grants have not been escheated,
I have no means of knowing the present state of those lands. There is
a list containing such grants that have not been escheated. (See Appen-
dix No. 1.)

How were the other large grants disposed of by the proprietors ?

The greater portion, and I believe all of them, with the exception given,
has been escheated for non performance of conditions.

What was the extent of the grants to Messrs. Lyons, Wright and
others ?

150,000 acres.

What is the quantity of all the land contained in that list ?

G7o,57G acres.

You have stated in your former evidence, that you think there are
1 ,000,000 acres liable to escheat, is any portion of that land contained in
this list ?

Some of the land is contained in this list, but a great portion of it is
not, a great proportion of it is in grants of 500 acres, and under that
quantity.

In remarking on the quantity of land liable to escheat, you allude to
lands more immcdately known to yourself ?

Yes.

Besides the land you suppose to be liable to escheat, there may be
large quantities of the original grant, also liable to forfeiture for non-
fulfilment of conditions ?

Yes.

The quantities liable to escheat in the Province cannot be ascertained,
without an examination of each grant, in order to know if settlers arc
on it ?

The estimation must be made.

In case of squatters being on land without a knowledge of proprietors,
would the liability to escheat be removed ?

I know that squatters have escheated land, but I am not aware of such
case ever being decided on.

You have stated in a former part of your evidence, that the best reme-
dy for advancing the general improvement of the country, would be by a
tax on wild lands. If such were determined upon, and the whole pro-
ceeds of such tax applied to purposes of improvement and promoting emi-
gration to the Province, what amount do you think it would be desirable
to levy on each 100 acres of improved land ?

iv hi

15 ■

hi, ,

[)f causiii:;' laiul
f leaders ?

Iiaseil for, li'om

posed of?

y such property '■!
jssess more than
ed into diflerent
iglit, and others
It been escheated,
huids. There is
ed. (See Appen-

oprietors ?

e exception given,

ons, Wright and

Ust?

u think there are
. land contained in

at i)ortion of it is
s, and under tliat

at, you allude to

at, there may be
)rfeiture for non-

ot he ascertained,
3W if settlers are

ge of proprietors,

not aware of such

lat the best reme_
try, would be by a
the whole pro"
nd promoting emi-
would be desirable

On any grants of land, where no improvement whatever have been
made, I think .")s. per 100 acres would not be too high a tax On land
where partial improvements have been made, but not such as miirlit hv
expected from long possession, a partial tax might be levied.

Is it your opinion that large quantities of land arc held with a view only
to future l)enc(it,without the proprietor regarding the immediate interest to
the Province \

I should consider a very large quantity of land is held in that way.

Is there much land now liable to escheat from neglect and non-com-
pliance of terms of appropriation ?

I should think upwards of 1,000,000 acres.

What is the superficial area of Nova Scotia .'

About 10,000,000 acres.

What portion of that do you consider to be covered with water ?

About one fifth.

Leaving 8,000,000 acres of land?

About that quantity.

It has been stated that about 5,750,000 acres of land has been granted
in Nova Scotia, what portion do you consider of this is under
cultivation \

There is about 400,000 acres of land in Nova Scotia, under cultivation.

What portion of the unapropriated land do you consider as capable of
cultivation ?

About one eighth.

What is the general character of the remainder ?

Chiefly barren land it is remarked. (See Appendix No. 2.)

Has there been any revenue arising to the crown from timber or other
sources than the sale of crciwn lands ?

■ None from the sale of timber, there is a revenue from the mines, which
goes through the Receiver General's office.

What has been the amo'uit paid annually to the Receiver General from
your department for the sale of crown lands (see list No. 3 )

What has been the extent of emigration during the last five years ?

There has been no extensive emigration at any time to this Province,
there has been a yearly arrival of emigrants at Halifax, but none at
Pictou and Cape Breton.

Have the emigrants who have come to the Province been able to
establish themselves ?

Many have, particularly the agricultural portion of them, at Pictou and
Cape Breton, many of those who came to Halifax have gone to the United
States.

What prevented the settlement of those emigrants in this Province ?

Those who came to Halifax were not desirous of going into the country,
and in the immediate neighbourhood there is no eligible land for settle,
ment in right of the crown, in the country the sale of crown lands
requires cash payment and the greater part of the emigrants being poor
they could not acquire land without a considerable residence in the
country to obtain means of purchase.

On what terms do private individuals part with lands to settlers ?

Generally from 3s. to 3s. Gd. per acre if purchased and in many in~
stances for less.

hi
til

Are there instances of persons taking wild land on lease or other terms
than by purchase ?

I am not aware if it is done in any instance.

Do persons generally succeed who settle on wild lands ?

In cases where the parties have been industrious, they have succecileil
very well.

Are you acquainted with the road system, pursued in the Province ?

There is no system the practice has been to make roads from one point
to another as they.have been required and this has been done generally at
the expense of the Province by grants of the Legislature. There is
also three days statute labour required of each person or money in lieu
of it.

Is this mode of proceeding generally approved of ?

It frequently brings forward an inferior person, hired at a low rate, to
supply the place of a robust man, or it causes labour only to be half done,
by those who work themselves.

Are the roads as well kept up as they ought to be ?

Certainly not, neither the main roads nor the cross roads, are as they
ought to be, the funds are misapplied and the statute labour is improperly
performed.

Who are the persons who have the management of road funds ?

There are no regular persons, there are Commissioners appointed
annually by the Governor and Council to attend to roads.

Do those persons attend to the laying out and making of the roads V

They attend to both,

Are they engineers or persons acquainted with such works ?

With very few exceptions they are not.

Who are the most active of those parties ?

Messrs John McKenzie, Peter Creans and James McKenzie.

Is there any contribution from proprietors of wild lands, towards
formation of roads ?

None.

Is this complained of by settlers and is it detrimental to the settlement
of the Colony ?

There is a very general complaint throughout the Province, of the
mischief arising from the system.

From your experience and with your knowledge of the different
systems that have been followed in reference to disposing and settling
crown lands in the Province, have you any opinion to offer as to the
best mode to pursue in future?

The course most proper to be taken in order to settle the waste lands
in Nova Scotia would be for the crown first to get possession by process
of escheats of all the lands hitherto granted the conditions of which have
not been complied with. It would involve a heavy expense to the crown
if the escheat of land took place at the instance of the Government, wtiicii
in such a case persons must be employed to examine minutely each grant
in order to furnish the proper evidence. In order to effect this the crown
should permit applicants to have the lands at something less than the
upset price upon certain conditions, that is to say, provided they effected
the escheat and settled upon the land that, they should be allowed to
purchase to the extent of two hundred acres, each person at the rate
of Is. per acre, they paying for the surveyor at the rate of Is. 4d. in order

.ft*}-'*-

» or other terms

f have succeedt'il

the Province ?
Js from one point
done generally at
lature. There is
or money in lieu

d at a low rate, to
ily tobe half done,

roads, are as they
hour is improperly

i
oad funds ? P

issioners appointed "
ids.
ig of the roads i

works ?

LicKenzie.

Id lands, towards .

il to the settlement

je Province, of the

of the different
sposing and settling
n to otfer as to the

to cover that expense. That no grant should pass to them of the land
sold until they had been actually living upon it, for at least twelve
months ; that they should be allowed two years to pay the purchase
money and should deposit one fourth of the amount at the period of
securing permission to occupy the land ; that in order to prevent delay
there should be no reference required to Her Majesty's Council, but the
Lieut. Governor, or in his absence, the Commmissioner of crown lands
should decide at once upon the application agreeable to the Royal
Instructions of 1832, but in cases of difficulty and when the lands were
involved in dispute, it would of course be proper to refer to the Council ;
that the waste land of the crown fit for settlement should be held at the
fixed rate of 2s. 3d. per acre, and individuals allowed to obtain them
without a reference to public sale, but in all Cksses certain conditions of
improvement should be insisted on, and the grant bbould not pass until
so many acres has been put under cultivation and the purchaser actually
settled upon the land. It would be necessary to make roads through
these waste lands in order to connect them with other settlements and
a careful survey should be made and the bounds properly marked of
every lot which should not exceed two hundred acres. It is proper to
remark that in Nova Scotia and particularly upon the Atlantic side of it,
there is a certain description of lands not at all adapted for cultivation but
still of value to the fishermen as it supplies them with wood for a variety
uf |)urposes ; uo valuable timber grows upon it, nothing but small spruce
and firs, and a small growth of hardwood which serves them for fuel, now
such land as this should not come under the operation of the foregoing
regulations, but where land is bought for the wood only prompt payment
should be required.

See also appendix No. 4. — An account of the number of counties and
townships, Sfc. — Appendix No. 5. return of Militia.

ittle the waste lands
jssession by process
tions of which have

jense to the crown
Government, wliicli
ninutely each grant

feet this the crown
thing less than the

vided they effected
lould be allowed to
person at the rate
e of Is. 4d. in order

1 '

i'':' m\

Sir "Rupert George, Bart. Secretary of the Province of Nova Scotia,

examined.

fie so good as to describe the different systems ander which the Crown
lands in Nova Scotia have been disposed of ?

From the first settlement of Halifax in 1 749, until 1760, the disposal
of the lands of the Crown was in a great measure left to the discretion of
the Governor.

During this period little was done towards the settlement of the interior,
the alienation of the Crown Lands having been principally confined to the
neighbourhood of the Seat of Government. In the year J 760 instructions
were issued for the Governor's guidance in this respect, but they are not
on record in my office. About this time, a very general disposition pre-
vailed both in Europe and America, to speculate in the lands uf this
country, and various projects for its settlement were submitted to (lis
Majesty's Government by numerous companies and associations formed
for the express purpose of entering into such speculations. Unfortun-
ately for the Province, these ill-considered schemes were encouraged by
Government ; and lirom 1760 to 1773 the whole of Prince Edwards
Island which then formed part of Nova Scotia, as well as numerous town-
ships of one hundred thousand acres each, and vast tracts of land contain-
ing the most fertile portions of the Province, were granted to adventurers
of this description, who engaged to cultivate the whole within a litnitted
period. All these speculations entirely failed, and those engaged in iheni
discouraged by the heavy losses which they had sustained in endeavouring
to settle their lands, abandoned and left them derelict ; but as they still
retained their grants, poor settlers were deterred from rcsortini; to the
Province, knowing that the most valuable lands were monopolized ; and
thus — emigration from the Mother Conntry being at the same time dis-
I'ouraged, as ruinous to its interests and security — the Province remained
in a hopeless state of depression for many years. At length strong
representations were made to Her Majesty's Government of the injury
which the Province suffered from settlers not being able to obtain lands,
except as the tenants of, or purchasers from, these extensive proprietors,
and instructions were given in 1773, to vacate these improvident grants,
in order that the same lands might be granted to persons who would e.n-
gnge to settle on and improve them, on such terms as it was said would
>-!iortly be promulgated. But this prospect for the better settlement ol
Nova Scotia, however well intended, failed in consequence of the power-
ful remonstrances of the original grantees, among whom were some ot
the first men of the kingdom. The attention, however, of Government
having been thus turned to the evils resulting from these large grants, an
order from the King in Council issued on the 20th of July, 1773, declar-
ing that the state and condition of H. M. Colonies and plantations in
America did, both in justice and expediency require, that the authority
lor granting lands therein should be further restrained and regulated, and
ordering the Lords Commissioners for Trade, to take the subject into con-
sideration, and suggest such alterations as they should think tit to be made
in the instructions ; and all Governors were directed in the meantime not to
issue any warrant of survey, or pass any patent for lands in the Colonies.
In February, 1774, an additional instruction was issued by His Majesty,
founded on the reports of the Lords of Trade, annulling all fnrmtr in-
structions, and establishing an entirely new mode of disposing- of the

!N*hich the Crown

lands of the Crown. It required the Governor to cause such parts ol the
Province as might be more advantageously settled, to be actually survey-
ed, and divided into lots of from one hundred to one thouitand acres each,
and then to sell them at public auction to the highest bidder, at an upset
price of six pence an acre. The purchaser on payment of the purchase
money was to obtain a bill of sale, upon producing which to the Gover-
nor, he was to receive a grant in fee simple, on payment of the usual fce.»',
subject only to the reservations of precious metals, and to an annual quit
rent of one shilling and two pence per acre. And the Governor was
directed not to dispose of any lands in the Province on any other terms.
under any pretence whatever. In pursuance of this instruction, upwards
of eighty-three thousand acres of the best land, then remaining in tiie
right of the Crown, were surveyed and divided into lots of suitable dimen-
sions ; but though a long public notice was given, not only in this but
the neighbouring Colonies, new the United States, of the intended sale of
those lands, not a single purchaser offered ; and thus a well intended
project for the settlement of the country proved abortive. Shortly alicr
the breaking out of the Revolutionary War, a letter was received from
Lord Dartmouth, (dated 1st July, 1775,') slating that His Majesty con-
sidered that Nova Scotia might become a happy asylum for many u'l-
tbrtunate families, under the necessity of abandoning the rebellious Pro-
vinces, and directing the cxocution of the instructions for the sale of
lands to be su])ended, and iiiatuitous grants to be made to such loyalists as
might take refuge in the Province. The Governor took this occasion to
represent the impossibility of providing suitably for their accommodation,
unless steps were taken to reinvest the Crown with the extensive tracts
before alluded to, and having been left derelict, and instructions were
consequently given to escheat such of those lands as were not settled ac-
cording to the terms of the patent. The non-resident proprietors, how-
ever, more than ever anxious to retain their lands, when they saw a
prospect of acquiring an increased value from the expected influx of nume-
rous new settlers, vehemently opposed the measure, and in too many cases
with success. Nevertheless, large quantities of land were escheated, and
regranted shortly after to actual settlers, who were chiefly refugee loyal,
ists, and the Province now began to prosper. In 1782, its whole amount
of population was only twelve thousand, while in 1784, Governor Parr re-
ported that grants had fiassed for four thousand eight hundred and eighty-,
two families, amounting at four to a family to 20,120 souls, and that
many more of the newly arrived families were settled on their lands,
whose grants were delayed for want of surveys. In 1790, certain grants
liaving been made which were disapprov«'d of. His Majesty thought pro-
per to forbid the further granting of lands, which prohibition continued
till 1S08. During this period numerous emigrants resorted to the Province,
many settled without authority wherever they could find lands vacant,
and some obtained licenses ofoccupatioti during His Majesty's pleasure.
In 1808, the prohibitory order before mentioned, (but which does not
appear to have been very strictly attended to,) was rciiioved, and a new
set of inslrnclions issued. The prominent points in which were that the
(piautity of land to be granted to any individnal should be restricted to
one hundred acres to the head of a family, and fifty acres for each child,
but not to exceed five hundred acres in tlie whole, without the special
pi rmiHsion of His Majesty ; that the graulee should improve within five
\oars, three acres for every fifty granted, or keep three neat cattle for

■' m

I '

■■'.

f J i

rt, -

every fifty acrta of barren land, and erect a hoaie, and ihould pay an-
nually, two ihillingi sterling, quit rent, for every 100 acres, after two
years from the dale of the grant — (he grant to be void on failure to com-
ply with these conditions within five years. Under the operation of ihetsu
instructions, the aeltlement of the Province went on rapidly ; still many
irregularities, productive of lerious evils, were committed. Notwith-
standing the ease with which an authority to settle could then be obtain-
ed, and the moderate expense of a patent, numerous unauthorised settle-
ments continued Intake place, and it not unfrequently happened that
the local Government, from having no knowlege of these unlawful pro-
ceedings, were induced by false representations to assign or grant lands
held in this irregular nianneri and under improvement to others than
the occupant, in the belief that they were in a wilderness state. Thus
disputes arose, and endless and most embarrassing representations of con-
flicting claims to lots were made to the Lieutenant Governor, Tu
remedy these irregularities, to facilitate the location of emigrants, und
natives in poor circumstances, and to promote all objects connected with
the settlement of the country, a Board of Commissioners consisting ot
the principal magistrates and members of the Agricultural Societies,
was appointed in every county in 1821. To these Boards all petitions
for land were in the first instance presented, who forwarded them to the
Lieutenant Governor, with their observations ; but if the applicant was
an emigrant or other poor person in want of an immediate sctllemeni,
the Board had authority to grant him a ticket of location, without any
previous reference to the Lieutenant Governor, the allowance at this
time being in all cases lo a married man 200 acres, and to an unmarried
man 100 acres. In this manner the settlement of the country was con-
ducted until 1827, when the existing system of disposing of Crown Lands
by sale was established.

Did this change in the system give satisfaction ?

No ; previously to its adoption Sir James Kempt receieed an out-liue
of the plan frotn Sir Wilmot Horton, and this having been submitted to
the Council for their opinion^as to the expediency of adopting it in Nova
Scotia, a report on the subject was transmitted to the Colonial Office,
shewing the inapplicability of the proposed system to this Province, and
Sir James Kempt fully concurring in this opinion, earnestly recommend-
ed that His Majesty's Government would pause before they extended the
new regulations to Nova Scotia.

Can you supply a copy of this Report ?

Certainly (No. 1.)

What reply was given to it ?

None to my knowledge. Sir James Kempt soon after received a des.
patchfrom Lord Bathurst (1st March, 1827) stating, that it was desira-
ble, that an uniform system of disposing of the Crown Lands should be
established in the North American Colonies, and directing the strict
observance of the instructions which were at the same time transmitted,
for the sale of Crown lands.

What proceedings took place on the receipt of these instructions ?

Sir James Kempt immediately gave publicity to them, and declared,
that thenceforward unappropriated Crown Lands could only be obtained,
according to the new regulations, by purchase. In justice however to
the numerous persons settled under the authority of Government, with
incomplete titles, notice was given that all settlers so circumstanced would
be allowed to obtain grants on the accustomed terms provided the fees

lould pay an-
icrcs, after two
failure to com-
iratioii of iliesu
ty ; Btill many
led. Nolwilli-
heii be obtain-
ithorised settle-
happened that
e unlawful pro-
or grant lands
t to others than
j8 state. Thus
intationsof con-
Governor. To
emigrants, and
connected with
I consisting of
Itural Societies,
Js all petitions
Jed them (o the
applicant was
late settlement,
n, without any
lowance at this
o an unmarried
ountry was con-
of Crown Lands

eed an out-liiie
submitted to
)ting it in Nova
olonial Office,
9 Province, and
tly recommend-
ey extended the

received a des.
at it was desira-
lands should be
!ting the strict
me transmitted,

istructions ?

and declared,
ily be obtained,
ice however to
>vernment, with
instanced would
ovided the fees

or the same were lodged nt the proper oflTiccs before ll>c 1st Jiuuiary,
1828, but not otherwise And the Commissioner of Crown Laud* diil
all in his power to give effect to the new instructions.

Did many persons take out grants in consequence of this offer i

Yes — about 1820 persons availed themselves of it, in Nova Scotiii
Proper, and have since received their grants, containing in the whole
about 200,000 acres, and in Cape Hreton, about 1 120 person-. did tlie
same ; but many of these grants still remain incomplete for want of sur-
veys, for which the settlers in most cases nro unable to pay.

What fees ore payable on grants under the old system ?

The expense of a separate grant to an individual of from 100 to 5L)0
acres, was from £12 lOs. to £13 15s. currency, but to save expense to
the grantees, it was the invariab'.^ practice, unless otherwise requested;
to include five persons in a grant, whereby each grantee's proportion of
the expense was for 200 acres about £3 15s. and for 100 acres, about
£3 currency, including every attendant charge except that of the survey
of the land.

What is the expense of the grants under the new system ?

The upset price of land being from 23. Jld. to 29. Gd. an acre, the price
of a grant of 100 acres varies from 1' 1 1 5s to £12 iOs. and of 200 acres,
from £22 IOs. to £25 currency, including the cost of survey.

When is the purchase money paid ?

Under the instructions orginally received, it was permitted to pay tlic
purchase money by four instalments, without interest, the first being
payable at the time of sale, and the second, third and fourth, at inter-
vals of a year; but in 1837, this arrangement was abolished, and pur-
chasers are now required to pay ten per cent of the purchase money on
the day of sale, and the remainder within fourteen days.

How has Ihiii regulation operated ?

Very injuriously in this Province, especially in the Island of Cnpe
Breton.

What reasons were assigned for making it ?

In a despatch from Lord Glenelg, 24(h February, 1837, the tendency
of the practice of paying by instalments is said to lead settlers to buy
more than they require, and consequently to disperse them over a wider
extent of country, than they can beneficiully occupy, nnd in the cases of
timber land, (he system is declared still more injurious, as it induces
speculators in timber to purchase the land on which it grows, by the
payment of the first instalment, who, after stripping it of its limber,
abandon it, whereby large tracts of land are for a long while left uncul-
tivated and unoccupied.

Do these reasons apply in Nova Scotia ?

No ; there has not been, I believe, a single instance here, certainly
not more than two or three, of persons buying more land ihan liicy want
forlheir own use, and not a single instance probably of parties bnying
land for the purpose of despoiling it of its timber ; on (he conlraiv (he
greater part of the purchasers in this Province had been long previuu^ly
settled on their lands.

In what respect has this rule operated injuriously ?

By ckecking the sales of Crown Lands, few settlers being able to pay
the full price at the time of purchase, and by orcasioning tlieconlimiancc
and increase of the unauthorised occupation of the lands of the Crown.
For example, the emigrants who resort to this Pro\ince, arrive ittcily

li,;

y,j,;

f^'^i

ti'^

^^".

ffi'ii

1.1

or nearly dcNiitiitc, and in almost all casies diiicmbnrk where there is no
demand for labor. These poor peo|ilc of course cannot piircliaae, and
they nro conscqiiciitly coinpollcd, for the pri'Nervatioii of their lives,
(llieir neighbours nearly as hudly off ns llKMiiMclves, being little able to
afford Iheni ossiHluncc,) to ttiko posse^^ion of the first piece of unoccu-
pied land, gninled, or un^ranlcd thfy discover, whence thry raise a few
potatoes, on which, for the lirisl two or three years they solely depend
for their niineriibh* cxitlenre. If the land is private properly they ore
probably turned oil', losing their improvcmcniK, or oblttiniii(( a very in-
aderpiule eonipciiMulion for ihem ; if it belong** to the Crown they are
doomed to remain a-* long as they live, (provided the existing regulations
rontinne) wilhoul any hopu of obtaining n title, snnVring in addition to
their many urid nlnmsi inloleinhle privulioiis, the painful anxiety wliicit
an insecure tenure commonly occasions. In this manner Nova Scotia is,
or soon will be, overrun by unauthorised settlers, and I learn from the
Commissioner of Crown Ijatuls in Cnpe llreton, that they are crowding
into all parts of that Ishind, in sucii numbiirs that pcrsoiiii desirous ot
purchasing can scarcely select one lot to which some self-constituted set-
tier docs not set up a claim.

How would you propose to remedy these cviU ?

In the first place the extent of such irregular occupation of the Crown
Lands, and the exact position of every lot held without authority, or under
some incomplete title, with the name of the occupant, should be ascer-
tained, in order that steps may be taken to quiet all such possessions, and
secure to every scUlcr, so situated, lUO acres of land, including his im.
provements, on condition of his taking out a title within a specified time,
suppose three years. The acquisition of lhi.s information would be a
work of great labour, and aitciHlcd wiih much expcncc ; but it must be
obtained, or the conse(|iicnce will be fk'i)loial)le. In Cape IJrcton alone,
it is estimated, lluit 20,000 perijona, or onchalf the population of the
Island, are scllled on, und niaiiUiiincii by land, for which they have no
title,or merely n licence to occupy. Then pres.uining that i\o departure from
the principle of sale will be allowed, I would recommend that the practice
of paying by instalinenU be a^ain pcinuttcd, tlltit the tiist instalment
should not be required I'loni seltlcrs, now in the occupation of Crown
Lands, for three years (Votn the dale of an official nolioe requiring them to
take out grants ; ihe three oilier inslahnents being payable at intervals
of a year. >Vilh res|ject lo cnngranls and natives in indigent circum-
stances, 1 would rccomincnd, that on ilie payment of a n'odcrate fee to
the Si rveyor Central, they should receive tickets of location, and be con-
sidered as the future purchasers of the lots assigned to them, at the upstt
price, care being taken thai their lots he duly surveyed, and plans thereof
made, and returned before tliey are put in possession. Theexpenceof
the survey should in the first instance be advanced by Government, but
would ultimately he [)aid, as ioi ining part of the piicu of the land, by the
settler, in four instalments, the liisl not being payable until lour years
after the date of the ticket of location. At the same time, ready money
payments if deemed expedient, nnglit be required from those who could
command the full price at once. Dut if some such plun as this were
adopted, the Oown Lands would produce little or no revenue for three
years, and not enough to pay the ordinary c.\pences of the Land Depart-
ment for eight years. It would be necessary, therefore, to provide salaries

.^i

j^i

crc there is no
t (xircliase, and

nC their Uvea,
; little able to
)iecc of iinoccu-
llipy raise a few

solely depend
roperly they are
iiifi^ a very in-
Crown they are
iii<>; ri't^uiationa
g in ixldition to

unxii'iy wliicli
Nova Scotia i«,
'. kurn IVoni the
icy are crowding;
loiis desirous ot
constituted set-

•n of the Crown

thority, or under
hould be aacer-

possessions, and
icluding his iin.

a specified time,
ntion would be a

but it must be
ape Ijiolon alone,
lopulation of the
lich ihey have no
lo departure from

I hat I be practice
) Hist instalment
upalion of Crown
rc(ptiri')g them to
able ut intervals
, indigent circum-

n'oclcrate Ice to
It ion, and be con.
)cm, at the upstt
and plans thereof
The ex pence of
Government, but
r the land, by the
le until lour years
ie, ready money
I those who could
)lun as this were

revenue for three
le Liind Depart-
to provide salaries

fur the Cnmmissioncrt of the Crown Land^i, which miufht be made ciiarge
able on some other hran( b of ibc Casunl Kcvcnuc. The present (luestion,
however, involvea so many diHicnlties, that I am not prepared to answer it
fully, but of this I feel persuaded, that, if the task were left to the Gover-
nor and Council, (and I do not see how it could be successfully accom>
plished except by persons possessed nsthey are, of an intimate knowledge
of lonal peculiarities,) they would, with the assistance of the (commissioner
of Crown Lands, have it in their power to frame some effectual plan for
cmerginp: from the exiitting evils, for the protection of illegal occu|)onts
of the Crown Londs, and lor the better conduct of the settlement of the
Province in future.

What was done nt Cope Breton under the infractions of lH'i7 ?

If those instructions were ina(>plicable to Nova Scotia Proper, they
were doubly so as regards Cape Hreton, inaxmuch as that Island was in
a greater (iej^rec than the rest of the IVovince. occupied by irregular
settlers, wlio«c poverty had prevented their making application for the
•and on which Ihey were settled, and who, consequently, co ild not be ex-
pected to piircliase under the new regulations ; and on referring loacopy
of the instructions to Mr. Crowley, to whom the Lieutenant (iovernor
then, lI81i7) od'errd the situation of Commissioner of Crown frauds, that
gentleman f.u forcibly c.pressed his opinion, that their tendency would
be to retard the lawful scttlenicnl of the conotty b\ the inciea-^cd expense
of obtaining grants, and to create much fuHering r.mong llie nnmcion*
clans of till' |Mipul;ition 1 have just r.lludcd to, that it was not dccnieil ex-
pedient tocxtt nil llic new system " i the whole to Cape liiTton ; but au-
thority was !iivcn to the Surveyor (Jeirial to gr^inl licen-es of occupa-
tion, under the I lib section (»f the instructions, to the benelit of wbicli
saving clause the Island was con>idcied to be entitled, as no jiart of the
ungranlcd Unn's had been surveyed, and it r;iight therefniv be considered,
to use the words of the document. " a di-lrict not survived " A great
number of persons v.trc settled undcrthat authority until IS.'J'i, wlicn the
Secretary of State having cxprc-sed his surprise at finding- that the sys-
tem of sale had not been introduced; Sir I'eicgrinc Aluillaml appointed
Mr. Crawley, Commissioner of Crown Lands, and directed him to carry
the instructions into full elfect. Fioni that period to the olsl December
last, he appears to have sold 3i,3SS acres, — but the proceeds have not
exceeded the expenses of his department. 1 beg to hand in a h'aterrient
of the quantities sold in each year, and of the sums received by him, —
taken from the return of the (.'onnnissinner of Crown Lands (paper No. 2)
also a statement of the quantities of land granted, nngranted, and dis-
posable in Cape Breton (paper No. .'1.)

Your opinion as to the tiefects of the present system of sale may be
collected from your former answers. NVhal were ibe ihicf defects of the
former one of lei08 ?

The want of some regulations sufTicient to enforce the survey of lands
assigned to settlers previously to their going into possession, and to oblige
them to take out titles without delay. Many years commonly elapsed
between the dutes of the warrant of survey and patent, though the for-
mer was received by the settler on condition of bis taking out a grant
within six months. Many disputes and niucb litigation have arisen, and
will yet arise from this cause.

W as the operation of the Boards of Land Commissioners beneficial ?

The advantages expected from this establishment were not fully
realized. A very laudable degree of attention was paid by some of the
Boards to the business referred to them, and the information they afford-
edwas frequently of much use in enabling the Governor to decide between
the pretensions of contending parties. My opinion however, is that the
appointment of these Boards did not conduce to the more regular set.
tlement of the Province, and that their operation was not in the whole
beneficial.

One of the objects strongly recommended to their attention was to
urge settlers without titles to take out grants, the greatest evils having a-
risen from delay in this respect. It appears however, that while in the 6
years preceding their establishment, 2,733 persons received grants,
amounting in all to 589^383 acres, only 182,724 acres were granted to
1010 persons during the six years of the existance of these Boards.

I have heard that large quantities of land heretofore granted, are liable
to escheat — have you any thing to say on this head i

I regret not to be able to add to the information you have already re-
ceived on this subject. It may be well, however, to state that in some
cases, I apprehend, it will be found that lands which have been wholly
neglected by the grantees or present proprietors, have been improved by
persons without their knowledge or authority, sufficiently to exempt them
from forfeiture.

Has it been determined that such improvements would bar an
escheat ?

Not judicially ; but the Attorney and Solicitor General have recently
given it as their opinion (paper No. 4.) that improvements so made by
authorised settlers, if to the extent required by the terms of the patent,
would have that effect.

What is the expense of escheating a grant ?

About £20 currency ; the expense being the same whether the grant
be of 100 or 5,000 acres.

Who pays the expense of the escheat ?

The person petitioning for it, who does so in expectation of obtaining a
regrant of the land, or part of it for himself

Are such applications for escheats frequently made ?

Very seldom of late — probably not more than once or twice in a

year.

What quantity of lard has been escheated in the whole ?

About 2,154,000 acres, of which 1,945,373 acres were escheated for
the loyalists between 1774 and 1782.

Can you supply a statement of the quantity of coals raised, and of the
revenues from Her Majesty's coal mines since they have been under lease ?

Certainly, (paper No. 6.)

Also a statement of the annual charges on the casual revenues, and of
the annual amount of the receipt of the fund ?

I have already prepared such a paper, which I beg to present — (No. 6.)
The amount of last year's revenue, exclusive of old balances and arrears
received, was £5,794 Ss. 5d. sterling, and of last years payments, (ex-
clusive of the repayment of a loan from the Mining Association of
£1,053 Is. 4d.) £4,198 lis. 6d. sterling, and the balance in hand on
the' l6t July, 1838, was £2,339 18s. lOd. sterUng;.

What is the amount of the net proceeds of the sales of Crown Lands

! It

I^ll

were not fully
)y some of ths
on they afford-
decide between
'ST, is that the
re regular set.
ot in the whole

tention was to
evils having a-
t while in the 6
iceived grants,
ere granted to
Boards,
ited, are liable

ive already re-

that in some

5 been wholly

n improved by

exempt them

would bar an

have recently
3 so made by

1 of the patent,

lier the grant
of obtaining a
)r twice in a

escheated for

led, and of the
n under lease ?

enues, and of

sent— (No. 6.)
es and arrears
lyments, (ex-
!\ssociation of
in hand on

Crown Lands

paid into the Casual Revenue since the first establishment of the system
in 1827 ? '

£1,042 123, 8d. currency, or £834 2s. 2d. sterling.— From the sale
in Cape Breton nothing has been received.

IH-^:

;

>'fi f ■

; if:

t 1:

■' ;'i

1 '

Mr. <St/a« Smith.

Have you been long a resident in the Province ?

Since the year 1783.

Am I right in supposing you have considerable information on the sub..
ject of agriculture, and have remarked on most parts of the Province ?

I have, on every district of the Province ; my object in visiting them
was to remark on the lands most desirable to be brought into cultivation,
and on the lands incapable of improvement. I was employed by Govern,
ment for this purpose. One object of the enquiry was to avoid running
roads over a country not capable of improvement.

Will you favor me with the result of your observations on each district
of the Province, in reference to soil, and to capabilities for agriculture V

The Province is divided into fourteen counties. Digby county, until
within a year or two, formed part of the county of Annapolis. It is the
west portion of Nova Scotia, and contains about half a million of acres.
One half of the county is alow mountain range of solid rock, with broken
stone, and patches of earth, and some deeper earth that admits of cul-
tivation. The parts of the county bordering on the sea admit of con-
siderable cultivation — there is a large tract of good land at the west end,
which is not settled for want of roads.

What portion of this county would admit of cultivation ?

About half of it is in some degree capable of cultivation.

Has all the land capable of cultivation been granted ?

All the blocks are. The isolated pieces are not.

How much of the granted land do you think is occupied ?

About one half u in some degree settled.

What portion of the occupied land is in cultivation ?

But a small part is under the plough. There is a great deal of pasture,
which is necessary in order to keep a small spot well manured ; a farm
requires cultivated land to produce hay for winter, and there is a great
deal of barren required for cattle, the cultivation would be improved with
more labour, and the land would be capable in proportion of maintaining
more inhabitants.

Is there a large portion of land in possession of farmers left altogether
out of use by occupiers of land ?

Numbers have large tracts in wood uncleared.

How much land does a settler think it necessary to possess on settling
down ?

They think it necessary to occupy one hundred acres.

How long would it take an industrious man to bring: fifty acres mto
cultivation ?

Some industrious men would do it in 8 or 9 years.

Is it a common thin^;; to have a farm of 100 acres cleared ?

It is a much more common thing to have the cultivated ground, not to
exceed 25 acres.

In cases where there are 25 acres cultivated on a farm, what quantity
of land would be required besides 1

About fifty acres of pasture, and about 25 acres for wood.
- What is considered a fair price for good lanils in a wild state ?

The Government's upset price is 2s. 3d. per acre. It sometimes
brings 5s. per acre on public roads ; good lands in a desirable situation,
14 miles from Halifax, have brought 10s. per acre. Land in this cuun-

m.:

tn on the sub>
B Province ?
visiting them
to cultivation,
ed by Govern-
avoid running

n each district
ragricuhure V
' county, until
olis. It is the
illion of acres.
!k, with broken
admits ofcul-
admit of con-
the west end,

leal of pasture,

nured ; a farm

here is a great

improved with

of maintainimr

left altogether

pss on settling

fifty acres mto

ground, not to

what quantity

tate?

It sometimes
rable situation,

in this coun-

try is very variable in its prices, and is much an object of speculation ;
but with all the changes, land has risen in its price, within 40 years,
double ; within the last 10 years, I think land has not increased at all.

What wages are paid for labour ?

If paid in money, labourers 23- exclusive of keep — in some cases they
.eceive 3s. ; in winter there is a want of work ; the highest price is [ think
3s. Gd.

Is there any want of labour in the country ?

There are plenty of hands every where.

What would be the price of a comfortable house for a .settler ?

A log house would cost £20, a four roomed two story house, well
finished, would cost £150.

What is given for clearing an acre of wild land?

The average price for cutting down would be 35s. per acre, and it
would cost as much more to roll and burn.

Would that prepare land for cropping ?

Yes.

How much more on acre would it cost to take out the stumps ?

On hard wood land, the stumps might be taken out in 8 years, vit
littie expense ; in soft wood land they would not decay under 20 years ;
in spruce land ihey would decay in 7 or 8 years.

You have said half of the lands in this district are granted, and only
a portion of tliis is in actual cultivation; how do you account for the
remaining portion not coming into a state of improvement ?

The want of roads — settlers cannot go fur from roads — they cannot
afford to make roads for themselves.

What do you consider the expense of making roads per mile ?

A road suificient for first settlements, could be made at £100 per mile,
including bridges.

Do these remarks apply generally to other parts of the country ?

I believe they will pretty generally, at times there may be a litllo
variation in wages from extra business, but things soon find their level.

What description of persons inhabit the county of Dighy ?

A considerable number of French, decended Irom the old Acadiaiis,
who live very much to themselves, a uuiet and harmless people, the
remainder of (he inhabitants arc American Loyalists.

What is (he character of Annapolis county ?

Annapolis county borders on the Bay of Fundy, and all that part to-
wards the Bay contains a considerable portion oi' land capable of cul-
tivation, about half the land in this county is worthless land, in solid
hills of granite, or a kind of species of trap and slate. On some of the
hills on the granite land, there is hard wood, and soi! for cultivation.

Can any part of the trap or slate land be brought into use ?

It is quite useless I think.

Can you form an cs(ima(c of (he portion of this county capable of cul-
tivation, and the quantity that is granted, and that is barren P

More than one-third is capable of cultivation, h-'f the remainder is
granite, with parts capable of cultivation, and the rest is trap, but hav-
ing parts capable of cnllivalion.

Arc any largi portions of the good land as yet unsettled (

There are no large portions unoccupied.

Is there much good land ungranted and remaining in the possession
of the Crown ?

■ k

i it 1^

'. \,

t.!'

Very little in this county ; what there is, is in isolated pieces and
separated by useless land> which prevents communication being made
and kept up.

It has been said that the county of Annapolis comprises 900,000
acres, and about half is granted ; is that according to your computation ?

I have made no computation of actual surface, but this agrees suffi-
ciently with my observations.

What portion of the granted lands do you suppose is in a state of
cultivation ?

About one quarter is in some kind of cultivation. I question if more
than one-tenth has ever been ploughed.

Does the county of Annapolis advance as much as might be expected
in improvement ?

It has advanced but little of late years.

What is the cause of theslowliness of improvement iu this county ?

To a check in the (Ishing at one time, and to a general depression
which has existed in the Province for some time — things are coming
round.

What is the principal cause of neglect and want of roads iu certain
parts of the county more than others ?

The mode of managing the road money. Each individual in the
Mouse of Assembly wishes to have as large an appropriation of money to
his district as possible, and the parts not inhabited are loo much
neglected.

Is there a good harbour for shipping at Annapolis ?

There is a good harbour for coasting vessels. I do not know about |
large ships.

Is there much ship building in this district ?

A number of small vessels are built here.

Are there any minerals supposed to be available iu this county ?

There is rich Iron* Ore. I do not think it has been properly worked,
although attempts have been made to work it.

Has this county any other particular quality ?

In the Herring fishing there is a good deal done.

What is the character of the inhabitants of this district ?

They are partly descendants of American loyalists and partly Americans,
who settled previous to the revolution.

What did you observe as to King's County ?

King's County is situated on both sides of the Basin of Mines ; more
than half of this county is capable of cultivation, the other part is of
granite hills chiefly.

Is this county much improved ?

It is better improved than Annapolis.

Is there much good land in this county still unsettled ?

There is very little I believe unoccupied.

Is it still capable of much improvement, and of increase of popula. I
tion ?

About Parsborough there is room for considerable improvement, and
might support double the number of persons now in the county.

Has this county other resources besides agriculture ?

There is some fishing, chiefly of shad. — There is a native copper found
here, but I do not think it goes to any extent — there is a native copper
scattered, hut no ore.

lated pieces and
ion being made

•mprises 900,000
tur computation ?
this agrees suffi-

is in a state of

[ question if more

jjght be expected

in this county P
eneral depression
liiiigs are coming

' roads in certain

individual in the
lation of money to
;d are too niucli

> not know about

his county '?
properly worked,

ict?
partly Americans,

of Mines ; more
the other part is of

id?

increase of popula..

improvement, and
e county.

ative copper found
e is a native copper

Is there much land still in possession of the Crown, capable of culti-
vation ?

Very little indeed in this county.

What country people settled this part of Nova Scotia ?

The majority of them are descendants of English families from New
£n<;land.

What county borders on King's county ?

The north is bounded by Cumberland, which is the most northerly
county of Nova Scotia.

What is the character of Cumberland county ?

There is a great deal of dyke marsh in the north of this county, border-
ing on New Brunswick, there is 80,000 acres in one marsh, the remaind-
er of the county is a mixture of poor lands and granite hilts ; there is
good land on the gulf shore.

Are there many inhabitants in this part of the Province ?

There are a considerable number of inhabitants who inhabit the head
of the hay and the gulf shore.

What are the recommendations of this district ?

There is not much agriculture, except on the marshes ; there are con.
siderable coal mines, which may be worked with advantage at any time.
There is also a considerable trade in grindstones with the United States.
Those grindstones are thought to be superior to any from Europe.

How is this part of the country supplied with harbours ?

The want of safe anchorage at the Grindstone Quay and coal mines, is
a great draw back.

Could this not be remedied ?

I think a good harbour could be made at no great expense ; there is
abundance of stone at hand which they are constantly working.

Have you crossed the neck of land which divides the Bay of Fundy
from the St. Lawrence ?

Yes.

What is the distance ?

About 14 miles.

What is the nature of the country ?

A low flat sandy country.

Is the country much above the level of the sea on either side ?

I do not think any part more than twenty-five above the level of high
tide at Cumberland.

At high tide is the level of the' water on both sides supposed to be the
same?

At the top of high water I should think that the water would be 27 feet
higher at Cumberland than the Bay Verte.

What is the rise of the tide at Cumberland, and what is it at the Bay
Verte?

I think seven feet is the rise of the tide at the Bay Verte, and si.Kty feet
is estimated to be the rise of the highest tide at Cumberland.

Then you suppose at half tide, there would be an equal level ?

Yes.

Through what soil would the bed of a canal require to pass, connecting
the Bay of Fundy with Bay Verte ?

Generally sand, with more or less loam.

Would such soil retain the water sulliciently for tlie purpose of having
a canal ?

■-m

- ■.; t

■ 'H

■H

I'!

.1"

lij-

I think it probable, clay would be found below the sand, if not, clay
would require to be brought perhaps 3 or 4 miles from the marshes, but (
think clay would be found nearer.

What is the nature of the coast, where the canal would terminate ?
It is shallow at the Bay Verte ; it is deep enough for ships at the
Cumberland side.
How would the country suit for rail rgads ?

I think remarkably well it might be a stright line — the country is aL
most a level. — It is the easiest place in Nova Scotia for a rail road.
In what part of the county are the coal mines situated ?
They are at different parts, and on the shore of the Bay of Fundy, as
well as on the Gulf of Saint Lawrence side.

Is there much room for increase of population in this district ?
The country is capable of great improvement, and of great increase of
population.

What is the character of the inhabitants of this district ?
There are some French, who are the least respectable of the inhabit-
ants, the rest of the inhabitants are generally industrious, and are de.
cendants of Yorkshire people.

Is there much of the district remaining in the possession of the Crown I
I believe very little worth having, remains in the possessiioii of the
Crown.

What remarks have you made as to Hunt's county ?
About Windsor it is very thickly settled, and the land is excellent,
probably half the county is fit for cultivation, the remainder of the
county is composed of granite and low land, a great deal of the land i^
considered fit for settling, and a great deal of the low land is from soil
resting on plaster, but to be improved with cultivation, and may even-
tually be better than what is now counted richer land. A good part of
this county is kept back, by being settled with a bad class of settlers.

Does this district offer any recommendation besides that of agricul-
ture ?

There is a great trade of plaster of Paris with the United Slates, all
along the Basin of the Bay of mines, which employs a great many people.
Is there much of this district remaining ungranted ?
1 believe considerable.

Does this part of the county admitof much improvemcut, and increase
of settlers ?

The settlers must increase, and the county would benefit much by
steady settlers. The land in this district requires care, and runs out of
cultivation when neglected.

What is the character of Colchester district ?

It is very populous, there is a good deal of valuable marsh round the
head of the Bay of Choquod, and good land on the river Stewiache ;
there is also a mixture of timber land, and land fit for cultivation, there
is no extensive waste or barren in this district, and the county is settled
with an industrious people, the descendants of Irish Presbyterians from
New England and Loyalist families.

Is there much of this district remaining ungranted ?
Not much that is good for any thing.

Is the land so held as to admit of much division and increase of po-
pulation ?

Yes there may be great improvement, and the population might be
doubled.

d, if not, clay
i marshes, but I

lerminate ?
r ships at the

country is aL

ail road.

,y of Fundy, as

strict ?

reat increase of

I of the inhabit-
[)8, and are de.

1 of the Crown ?
osses^iou of the

nd is excellent,
[?mainder of the
\\ of (he land i^
land is from soil

and may even-
A good part of

ss of settlers,
hat of agricu!-

itcd States, nil
it many people.

jt, and increase

lenefit much by
nd runs out of

narsli round the
icr Slewiache ;
litivation, there
aunty is settled
sbylerians from

increase of po-
ition might be

What is the character of the Piclou district ?

There is a great d<>' ' of good land in this district; some near the
shore, and on bard wood hills ; there is a valuable mine of coal near the
harbour, which is rapidly increasing in importance, there is aUo plaster
of Paris, but not near enough to the shore to be worked, they have also
tried to make salt.

What description of settlers are to be found in this district?

The great majority are the descendants of the Highlanders, a good
many neglected their farms in consequence of the lumbering business,
and are not so well off now.

Is there much land in this distcict still ungranted, and capable of
cultivation ?

Not much, as I should think.

Is the land improved as it might be ?

The most of the settlers have more land thnn they require, and there
is room for great improvement.

Does Sydney county possess good land ?

It is much such a district as Picton, as to agriculture, but no coals
have been found in it.

Is this county well settled ?

Some parts of it are, the southern coast has a great deal of bad land.
There are many goods harbours on the shore, and the people prefer
coasting and fishing to farming ; there is also a coasting wood trade.

Is there much opening for improvement in this county ?

There is considerable.

What class of people are settled in this district 1

Acadian French, Highlanders, and some of Irish descent, with some
American Loyalists.

Does Halifax county possess much good land ?

No.

Is all the land capable of cultivation occupied ?

Chiefly, except in isolated spots, and when a want of roads prevent
settlements. *

What portion of the whole county is applicable to agriculture i

About a fourth part.

What is the remaining portion of the county composed of ?

Large tracts of almost naked granite, trap, and slate rocks, capable of
producing very little.

Is the good land in the county of Halifax pretty generally occupied ?

Yes, pretty well.

Is there room for many more settlers ?

Yes ; particularly on the coast, where there is great neglect on ac-
count of the fishing. There is e.\cellent mackarel and herring fishing ofT
the townships of Halifax shore.

What kind of land is to be found in Lunenbnrgh county 1

About one-third is worthless, on acconnt of being naked granite, the
remainder has some good land, particularly about Lunenburgh. In
this county the people are frugal and industrious — they are of German
descent.

Is this county well peopled, for the proportion of land at the disposal
of the inhabitants'?

It has almost treble as many inhabitants as any other portion of the
Province, of a similar character.

ii,

[v ; <

Mi!--

Have you been on the Lahave River P
Yei.

Is that part of the country well filled and improved ?

It is pretty generally ; this county is pretty vrell peopled every where,
the south.west part is not bo much settled, this pi rt will be more thickly
settled and will improve yet, the land there requires a good deal of inun-
uring.

Are there any mines or minerals in this district ?

There is a probability that iron ore may be found here.

Has coal been found in the vicinity of Lahave River ?

No ; it is not the kind of country to produce coal.

Is any part of the southern coast of this Province likely to contain
coal?

No ; there is no probability of it.

What is the character of Queen's countv ?

One-fourth of it may have a portion of land fit for cultivation, one-
half of it is totally floating bogs and barrens, and unfit for anything ;
the other fourth is timber land.

Are there many inhabitants in this county ?

Not many ; the Town of Liverpool is the most idiporlant place, and
has a good harbour for shipping, and there are several good harbours
for coasting craft.

What are the productions of this county ?

The timber used to be good, but it is nearlv exhausted ; the Liverpool
people have been carriers, and are so still ; there is also a considerable
fishing carried on from Liverpool.

What is the character of the people of (his county ?

That of the people are descendants of people who came from America
before (he war. There are also many descendants of Atnerican loyal-
ists.

Are they not an agricultural people ?

No — there is not much room for agriculture.

What proportion of the county of Shclburne is capable for cultiva-
tion ?

About a fourth part of it is fit for cultivation and pasture.

What is the character of the remaining portion 1

Of the remainder more than half is barren — unfit for timber, the rest
of the county has some timber, especially some oak, (it for ship build-
ing.

Are there many inhabitants in the county ?

Shclburne and Barrington are the principal places ;at Shelbiirne, there
is a trade in granite which is increasing. Barrington is getting a fair
fishing business, and carrying trade — the rest of (he couii(yhas few or
no inliabi(ants, except on the Sea Board. If this Province ever be-
comes a manufacturing country, th2 numerous streams of water in this
county fit for mills, will make it valuable.

What class of people inhabit Shclburne ?

Most of the people arc deeendants of American Loyalists.

Is there any part of Nova Scotia not yet described by you ?

YeF. Yarmouth county, which was a portion of Shclburne county,
lill lately this county is rather less than half barren, ami the remainder
lias a huge proporUuii of hahitablo land, intermixed wilh swamp. The
shorc is iirctly thickly SLllled. The interior has few inhabitants, tlio

ii--:

led every where,
be more thickly
od deal of iiiun-

kcly to contain

ultivation, one.
(It for anything ;

rtant place, and
al good harbours

I ; the Liverpool
a considerable

ne from America
American loyal-

ble for cultiva-

re.

timber, the rest
t for ship build-

Shclbnrne, there
s getting a fair
inily has few or
Dvince ever be.
of water in this

i'sts.
you ?

elburne county,
tlic remainder
ill swamp. The
inhabitants, tliu

people lumber a geat deal J but if roads were made in this county, Hit-
agricultural population have succeeded so well, that much improvomunt
would be made.

How was this county settled ?

Yarmouth Town was settled from Americans, before the Revolution,
the remaining part of the settlers in thi» county are deccndants of Loy.
alists, except a small settlement of Acadian French.

What is the principal occupation of the inhabitants ?

Fishing, ship building, and carrying luntber, the people are slriviu};
and industrious.

Is the prosperity of the Province much checked for want of roads ?

There is a want of roads in some partB, nnd in other part, roads are
not kept in repair. I have seen such beneficial cirects produced by good
communication, that I am sure the prosperity of the country depends
upon it.

Whatsystem is now provided for road making?

There is a statute labour of six days to each householder, and for la-
bourers and other persons, two days ; the labour is under the direction
of overseers and commissioners.

Docs this system of statute labour work well ?

In many places the people dont work, as they ought.

Does the system of statute labour cause a proper division of labour in
improvement throughout the country ?

The overseers generally attend to parts of roads, and to particulur
districts.

What is the case when 10 miles or more of a road require to be run
through unoccupied land f

This must be entirely done by grant from the House of Assembly.

Does it sometimes happen that a road runs a distance through land
capable of improvement, but having few or no settlers ?

Yes, between Shut Harbour and Musquidabit. I suppose there is
over 20 miles of land capable of cultivation, with uiily one settler.

How do you account for this ?

The land belongs to people who do not intend to settle on it them-
selves, but who hold the land on speculation.

Would this land be occupied, if jjeople could procure it in small lots i'

I do not doubt but that it would.

Would not the proprietors part with this land on moderate terms ?

A great many people have false ideas about land, and think it worth
a good deal more than it really is.

Are there many parts of the county kept out of cultivation, in the same
way as the portion you mention ?

A considerable portion in many places.

You consider that the large blocks of land, being in the hands of pro-
prietors, and not undergoing improvement, are a decided check to the
advancement of the country ?

Yes I do.

What do you propose as a remedy for this evil ?

We have an Escheat Law, but in cases of 100 acres, the expense ot
escheat and obtaining a fresh grant is so great, as in many instances to
prevent application lor escheat being made. If lots were esdieated at

■I 'i4

■I

tlie expense of Government, and then disposed of as Crown F^and-i, thru'
would be many lots applied for settlement.

What would be the expense of escheat for lOO acres as at present .'

People have paid £250 for 100 acres for escheat and grant.

What in your opinion would be the ett'ect of a tax, in the form n\ a
penal tax on lands not improved.

A tax would cause these lands to be settled or disposed of.

What ought to be the amount of such a tax, provided the same wiis
judiciously applied towards the improvement of the country ?

In each 100 acres of land capable of making a farm, there Hhould Uv
a tax equal to the price of six days statute labour, say 15s.

Do you consider that farms settled, and other improving proprietors
should contribute to the same tax ?

They should contribute in the same proportion of six days work for lOO
acres. The work now given to count.

Has much money been granted towards roads, by the House of As.
sembly of late years.

Considerable sums ; last year, I believe £10,000 was granted, tunnn
years I believe £24,000 have been granted.

Is this money in your opinion well appropriated to meet the purposes
intended ?

It has done much benefit to the country, but might have done much
more. It is very often spent much more where it is not wanted, than
where it is. It is frequently given to populous districts, where the pco-
pie can make their own roads, the uninhabited country gets but little; it is
also frequently divided into small sums, and put into the hands of a
^Jiuiuber of commissioners, who generally know little about road making.

•And why is this the case ?

Great part of our Representatives think it their duty to oblige as much
as possible their constituents.

Is it the case that absentees and persons holding lands not occupied,
or in cultivation do not contribute in any way to making roads ?

I believe they do not now at all.

Have you occasionally done duty as surveyor ?

Yes.

Can you state the mode in which you put a settler in possession of his
ground ?

I take the nearest angle or boundary of a lot already appropriated, or
a lake or some known place, and run off the lot from that.

Can such surveys be depended on ?

Several of them cannot, in some places 10 per cent must bt ■.' . ed.
The grants on the shore are not to be depended on. The old surveys are
very inaccurate.

Does it ever occur that the same land has been granted twice over ?

Frequently it has been the case.

Is there much litigation caused by inaccuracy of surveys ?

A good deal.

What expense does a settler incur in obtaining possession of land, in-
<;luding fees, but exclu-sive of purchase money ?

He pays nothing for survey, but assists the Surveyor with his labour.

When a settler is desirous of possessing Crown Lands in the country,
how long would it be before he could get possession of his land ?

'l\ Lun(l^, tlirn-

it present .'

lit.

1 the fonu ot A

)f.

1 tlie same wa^

•y?

litre Hliould III'

itig proprietors

ys work for 100

le Housu oC As.

granted, Boine

it the purposes

lave done much
Jt wanted, than
where the pco-
ts buthttle; It is
> tlic hands of a
ut road making.

oblige as mucii

s not occupied,
oads ?

ossession of his
ppropriated, or

lust bt ■' ed.
old surveys are

twice over ?

ion of land, in-

;ith his labour,
in the country,
land ?

If he knowi what piece of land to apply for, he might be located in a
tiionth.

How much money ought a man to have to settle down with good pros-
pcct of success, »upj)08ing he has live in family (not including the pur-
chnso of the land) ?

He ought to have £100. Some would get im with less. A man would,
the first year, require to cut down, the following year he must crop the
land.

Could a man so settling afford to pay any rent after a few years 1

He might pay some.

Could he pay 'M. an acre the filih year ?

I think he might.

Could he pay more the following year f

He niiglit (id. an acre.

How much could he pay the 7th year 'f

He could probably pay 9d.

What do you think would be right to ask for the remaining years !

1 should say Dd. an acre would be enough.

Do you think the above conditions would hold out such encourage-
ment, with permission to buy at any time at 20 years purchase, and
would those terms in your opinion, be such as to lead to improvement in
the country ?

I think it would when the land is worth settling, if the tenure is fur
1)99 years.

Would any security be required to prevent persons abusing such olfers,
as those, by cutting timber, and deserting the properties .'

It would be necessary to have security.

What would constitute a sullicient security in such cases ?

Persons ought to be prohibited from selling timber, unless they pur-
chase the land ; this would prevent many from taking land on the above
terms, the Surveyor ought to report if it is timber land or land for cul-
tivation.

Would a survey of the country, such as could be depended upon, and
one that would enable land to be accurately ascertained, advance the
general welfare of the country?

It would cut off a great deal of ground for litigation, besides it would
afford facility for acquiring new possession for settlers coming to the
country, it would, particularly if old grants were escheated.

How would you describe the Province of Nova Scotia as to its Geolo-
gical character .'

The greater part of the Province i.s a low mountain range, running the
length of the Province, resting on solid rock of granite, trap and slate,
alternately. The trap forming broad and the slate narrow band. The
average amount of soil mixed with broken stone above the rock, would
be about three feet, the best lands on this are inferior to good lands, or a
different formation. The shore of the Bay of Fundy, from Long Island to
Cape Split, is a different rock, the basis of which is almost every where.
Amygdalvid, that is separate from the Ancient Rock above named by St.
Mary's Bay. Annapolis Basin, the vally through which Annapolis river
runs, and the CornwaUis river. In addition to this, you must except
all that part of King's County, which is east of the Basin of mines, and
the halt of the Counties of Hunt's Cobequoid, Sydney, and Guysb-

1 ■: ^i' V

'I'

)1 :

through, the quarter part of the counties of Cumberland and i'ictou, aiid
a very Binall portion oC tlio county of Halifax, on Musquidabit ; these
lands rest upon sand stone, grey marble, gypsum, limestone, porphyrv
and many other kind of rock, nnd the soil of the good lands on these %"'
deep-— barren portions are chictly sand and clay, in this district all oui
coal is found, in the neighbourhood of Gypsum, salt springs are very
frequent, and also a species of mngnetian limestone, containing abun-
dance of the shells of young cockles, all about one size, something less
than half an inch diameter, appearing to be the same species as a cockle
now living on the shores, which when full grown, is about two inches in
diameter, seeming to indicate, that the material which formed these
masscsof limestone was raised from the sea at one time, as the cockles
they contain are about the size of the young cockles of four weeks old.
There are strong indications of copper ore in this district, as from Cum-
berland, along the Gulf shore to Pictou, copper ore is frequently found
in small quantities in the sandstone. The Intervale or Alluvial soil is
only found in those rivers which have gypsum at the head, and often at
the sides of the Intervale. Streams in many instances above thegypstim,

Eass over such barren and rocky ground, that it appears they could
ardly have brought any soil from the part above the gypsum.

Within the last twenty years in your opinion, has the population of
the Province increased in a tair ratio ?
Taking the whole Province, there is no doubt there has been an increase.

Has the increase been from the natural growth of the Province or from
emigration ?

From both.

Has there been any emigration from the Province ?

There has been from Halifa.\.

Has (here been much from other parts of the country ?

There has been some.

Do you consider the improvement of the country has been as great as
it might have been, had roads been made with more skill, and if that
part of the Revenue appropriation had been well laid out for the settle-
ment of wild lands P

Certainly not.

What portion of the land of the Province, available for purposes of
agriculture is at present occupied ? «

Including improved pasture, I should think one half.

Is that portion of land described by you as occupied, capable of further
improvement, and what further population would be required ?

It would support twice the number of inhabitants by improvement,
better than it does the number at present on it.

Is there any great room for extension of the Fisheries now carried on in
this Province ?

I think there is great room for improvement ; we ought to succeed
better than the Americans, who though double the distance from the
fishing grounds than our fishermen, carry on a more extensive business
than we do.

In reference to the mineral productions of the country, is there in your
opinion room for any great increase of business ?

There are more coal mines than could be opened ; the grindstone busi-
ness is increasing rapidly, and the plaster of Paris ofTers an inexhaustible

and l*ict()U, uiul
squidabit ; those
stone, porphyn ,
nds on thege ^fc

district nil oui
ijirings are very
ontaining abun-
, Nomething less
ecics as a cockle
ut two inches in
Ich formed these
, as the cockles
■ four weeks old.
3t, as from Cuni-
frequontly found
ir Alluvial soil is
!ad, and often at
jove thegypsimi,
pears they could
psum.
he population of

been an increase.
Province or from

been as great as
skill, and if that
ut for the settle-

! for purposes ot

apable of further

jired ?

ty improvement,

low carried on in

lUght to succeed
stance from the
tensive business

is there in your

grindstone busi-
an inexhaustible

supply of that material. We are alio begining to export granite to the
United States.

Is there much opening for a continoanoe of the timber trade of tlu
Province P

The timber trade is diminiihing very much, and there is no probability
of an increase at any time in the business.

Are the memoranda you are referring to, thoee which were mndc at tin
time of your making those observations on the county in que.stion 'i

They are my Journals, which were written every night, while I was
making those observations.

26
J. W. Nutting, Esqr, Commissioner of ihe Court of Escheat.

Wiien was the Court of Escheat estabUshed in the Province ?

The first Commissioner of Escheat was appointed in 1770.

Will you be kind enough to state the object of the Court ?

Tiie object of it is to reinvest the Crown in the possession of such grants
of land as may have been made under certain terms and conditions of ini.
provement or otherwise, and which have not been complied with.

Were the terms required, of a general character ?

They comprehended cultivation of a certain portion of land, and pay-
ment of quit rent to the Crown,

Was the quit rent a fixed sum in all cases ?

It was in all cases 2s. sterling per 100 acres, to the best of my know-
ledge.

Has any Act of the Province been passed at any time to put an end to
the right of the Crown to Escheat for non-fulfilment of engagements ?

None such have ever been passed, certain Acts have been passed to
grant possession, under defective titles, when settlers have held and im-
proved property.

What is the mode of proceeding to obtain Escheat ?

Persons desirous of possessing land said to have been granted, but unim-
proved, or the grantor or proprietor being dead or absent from the Province,
apply by petition to the Lieutenant Governor, stating the situation of
the land, its unimproved or abandoned state, and accompanying his state-
ment by the aflidavits of two respectable neighbours, who are acquainted
with the circumstances. The petition upon its receipt at the Secretary's
Office, is referred to the Surveyor General, who reports whether the lot
was granted as stated, if no particular reason is given by the Surveyor
General, to prevent the Escheat, the Governor approves of proceeding
being commenced, and the Secretary is directed to apply to the Attorney
General and desire the usual measures to be taken. The Attorney Ge-
neral files an information with the Registrar, who forthwith advertises
that an Inquest of Oflice will be taken before the Commissioner of Escheat
and forfeiture, touching the improvement upon the land, and the usual
time of notice is 4 months in the Royal Gazette. If the Crown is desirous
of getting possession of a piece of land situated as above, the Attorney Ge.
neral is directed to file an information accordingly. The Inquest of
Office is taken at Halifax, before the Commissioner, and a Jury of twelve
or more freeholders, summoned by the SheriflT, upon a precept issued by
the Commissioner. Evidence oral and documentary is admitted to prove
the non-compliance with the conditions contained in the grants from the
Crown, and evidence is allowed to bs produced on the part of the
grantees, or their assigns, to prove the fulfilment of such conditions.
The applications have invariably l:cen made oil the ground of the non-
settlciiient and want of improvement of the land. By an Act of the
Province, 51st George 3d, public notice must be inserted in the Uoyal
Gazette at Halifax, and also put up at the Church and Court House
doors in the county or district where the lands lie, and notice served per-
sonally on the tenants or occupant (if any) at least three months before
the inqust is held. The inquisition is returnable into the Court of
Chancery, and transferable in the Supreme Court of the Province, in
the same manner as in the High Court of Chancery or Court of Ex-
chequer in England; the same Act provides that no lands that have been

icheat.

nnce ?

70.

rt?

m of such grants

londitionsof ini.

ed with.

land, and pay-

t of my know-

- put an end to
gagements ?
i been passed to
ve held and im-

mted, but unini-
)ni the Province,

the situation of
mying his state-
3 are acquainted
t the Secretary's
whether the lot
ly the Surveyor
's of proceeding

to the Attorney
e Attorney Ge-
iwith advertises
oner of Escheat
], and the usual
■own is desirous
le Attorney Ge-
Fhe Inquest of
1 Jury of twelve
recept issued by
Imitted to prove
grants from tiie
the part of the
uch conditions.
Ill of the no!i-

aii Act of ijie
ed in the Uo^al
1 Court House
ice served per-

months before
J the Court of
e Province, in
or Court of Ex-
i that have been

£3 10

3 10

2 6

1 3

3 3

1 10

1 3

2 11

escheated' (o the Crown shall be granted to any person, until after the
expiration of a year from holdings the inquest, unless to the original
grantee or his heirs.

What expense is incurred on an average, by parties obtaining
escheats ?

The averao^e amount of fees and expenses upon an inquest of escheat,
is about £20 Halifax currency, liable to be increased, however, by the
expenses of procuring^ evidence and the examination of witnesses. The
following are the usual fees paid on an inquest of ofhcc

The Commissioner .... ....

Attorney General .... ....

Solicitor General .... ....

Surveyor General .... ....

Registrar .... .... ....

tiury !••• •••• •••«

Sheriff* .... , .

^ICrK «■•• at** **••

v>rici ••*• • • • • ••#•

£19 10
And advertising is about 2os. or SOs. in all about £20 currency. The ex-
pense of tlic escheat is increased without reference to (he quantity of
land, and is the came for 100 acres as for 1,000, or any greater quantity.
The ex|)eiise could not well be diminished, considering the duties neces-
sary to be (lone. The probable reason of the infrequency of escheat is
the delay and additional expense of obtaining a grant in this way. There
has been no case of escheat for upwards of four years past.

Are there many cases wijcre the expenses of escheat have gone beyond
the above named i>uin ?

Very few, much beyond, to my knowledge.

Have applications in all cases been successful ?

No ; but I believe there have been very few exceptions ; in some
cases, however, the notice has been given, but not further prosecuted.

Are cases of escheat of frequent occurrence ?

During the twenty years from 1818 to 1838, there have been thirty-
four inquests of othee taken in the Province ; upon application for
escheat ; large tracts of lands have been escheated to the Crown, and
regranted but in no manner of proportion to the grants that are no doubt
liable to escheat tor want of fulfilling the conditions of the grant as
respects improvement, the applications for escheat have been much less
frequent for the last ten years (han for some time previous.

Was this Court much resorted to, or Escheat frequently passed pre-
vious to 1818 ?

Frequently ; especially about the year 1783 and 1784, when the Ameri-
can Loyalists came in numbers to the Province.

Do you consider that there is much lund in the Province at present
liable to Escheat ?

There are large tracts of land in the country formerly granted, and yet
unsettled, and therefore liable to Escheat.

Are there any objections made to the method of proceeding in the
Court, or are the terms in any way considered hard towards the proprietors ?

I have never heard of any complaint in any way.

You have stated £20 to be the sum incurred in cases of Escheat ; how
is that sura appropriated ]

I
4

It is appropriated to the payment of the fees 6f the officers of the Court
(none of whom receive any salary) and of the jury.

From the time of application for Escheat, how long is it before the case
can be decided ?

The shortest period must be three months from the time parties apply
before the Escheat passes.

Is there any delay in the proceedings of the Court ?

None to my knowledge, "nless what arises from the delay of the
applicants in procuring sufficient evidence.

You have stated that the land Escheated cannot bt> regranted in less
than twelve months from the time of Escheat, except to the original
grantee ; it would therefore require at least fifteen months to put any
other party in possession ?

Yes.

Do you consider the delay required in regranting the land to be neces-
sary ?

I should suppose it could only be necessary for the purpose of giving
original grantees sufficient time to come in to traverse the Escheat, and
obtain a reversal in the Supreme Court. I think the time might be
shortened when parties reside in the Province.

Are there any cases of Escheat now in progress ?

There is one application now pending.

i '■

:er8 of the Court
it before the case
me parties apply

the delay of the

regranted in less
; to the original
nths to put any

and to be neces-

lurpose of giving
the Escheat, and
e time might be

33
Richard Brown, Esq. Mining Engineer.

Have you resided long in the Province of Nova Scotia ?

Since 1826, except for a short interval.

What part of the country have you principally resided in ?

Pictou and Sidney.

You have given attention to the geological character of the country —
will you be kind enough to state what you have collected on this sub-
ject in the Island of Ci-pe Breton ?

The most valuabK; mi les yet discovered in Cape Breton are the coal
seams ; several other .Ti'uerals have been reported, but are not yet attend-
ed to, from want of sutlicient encouragement after investigation has been
made. There are Salt Springs, which I think may be brought into opera-
tion, and which would, in connection with the Fisheries, be very valua-
ble, and would afford a market for Coal of a description that cannot be
shipped.

How long have the Coal Mines been in operation ?

About fifty years from the first beginning.

How were the Mines worked in the first instance, and by what parties ?

They have always been leased by the Crown, and worked by different
parties ; the leases were of short duration, and no great advancement was
made in improving the working of the Mines. In the year 1827 the
Mines at Sydney were let by the Crown to the General Mining Association
for sixty years ; the parties pay £3,000 Sterling per year, per 20,000
chaldron, Newcastle measure, and 2s. for every Newcastle chaldron above
that quantity. The terms embrace all the Coal Mines of the Province,
and are granted to the same parties.

How did you find the Mines at taking them in 1827, and what was
their produce ?

They could not have worked them much longer on the plan then pur-
sued ; the produce was about 4,000 Newcastle chaldrons per year ; the
Company that leased them at this period introduced Steam Machinery,
and opened new pits, and the Mines have of late years been regularly
increasing, and last year they produced about 70,000 tons.

In your opinion is this increase likely to go on ?

There is every probability of it ; the demand is increasing, and we are
expending more capital for ihe purpose of extending the works to meet it.

Is there any doubt as to the Coal being in such quantity in the Coun-
try, as to meet future demands ?

There is Coal enough in Cape Breton to supply the world for centuries.

What is the price of Coal at the places of shipment ?

At Sydney it is I4s. 6d, Currency per ton, Bridgeport 14s., delivered
on board the vessels.

What is the quality of the Coal ?

It very much resembles the Newcastle Coal, and I consider it quite as
good for domestic purposes.

Has it been much used for Steam Machinery ?

It has not been so much used for this purpose, as there is a superior
Coal for Steam purposes worked at Pictou, to be obtained rather cheaper.

What are the principal markets for Sydney coals ?

More than half goes to the United States — the remainder to Newfound-
liuul and Nova Scotia.

Does the annual demand exceed the means of supplying ?

, w

Ss: i'

li^P

Ik-

^ly able to supply the demand, but we sbiill

Last year we were scared
have more that will be wanting 1

Is there any want of labor at the Island ?

There are a sufficient number of common laborers, but we feel a want
of colliers.

Are you acquainted with the character of the coal produced in the
United States ?

The only mines available and worked to any great extent in the United
States, are the mines of Pensylvania, which are anthracite coal, and in
my opinion never can come into competition with the Nova Scotia coal
for steam purposes.

What is the duty in the United States on coal imported from British
America ?

It is an advalorem duty, it is now about Ss. currency per American
chaldron, of twenty two hundred weight.

Are the harbours at Sydney and Bridgeport safe and adapted for ship-
ping of large dimensions ?

Sydney is without exception the finest harbour in the Province, and U
capable of admitting vessels of any burthen and to any number. Bridge-
port is a bar harbour of only 1 1 feet of water, it is quite safe for vessels
that can enter if.

What is the extent of manual labor now employed in connection with
the mines in Cape Breton, and what extent of machinery ?

There are about 500 men constantly employed, and during the ship„
ping season about 100 more, — there are also I engine of 80 horse power,
and 1 of 30 horse power, and 3 of 20 horse power each, and about 90
horses.

Has Cape Breton much capability as an agricultural country ?
There is a great deal of very good land, but it is generally occupied by
settlers with little spirit of industry or improvement. The climate of
Cape Breton is not so favorable to agriculture as Prince Edward Island,
and some parts of Nova Scotia.

Is there much good land remaining unoccupied ?
Most of the land having a frontage on water is occupied ; there is a
large lake in the middle oi the Island communicating with the sea, which
is navigable for ships, and affords access to almost every part of the
Island. I do not think that above a fourth of the land capable of cultiva-
tion remains unoccupied in the interior for want of roads to it.
What do you consider to be the population of Cape Breton ?
About 35,000 souls.

Has there been much emigration to the Island of late years ?
Not a great deal lately.

Docs Cape Breton grow sufficient produce for its consumption ?
No — they import a great deal of flour annually, and also Indian corn
and other produce.

Is there any difficulty in procuring labour at Pictou ?
There are plenty of common Labourers ; but we are obliged to bring
out Colliers from Scotland at a great expense.
What are the wages given to common Labourers ?
From 3s. to 4s. per day, finding themselves ; the Colliers earn from 7s.
to 10s. per day.

Has Cape Breton any other natural resources than the Mines you have
mentioned ?

■«■■'■

'I;.!

but \vc shall

nnection witli

There is abundance of Limestone in various parts of the Island uppli.
cable to agricultural purposes. There is also Building Stone, (Freestone,)
and Gypsum exists in great abundance in the Island, in places favourable
for shipping. All these might be turned to account.

Are there Fisheries in the Island to any extent ?

There are very fine Fisheries ; the principal are at St. Peter's Bay,
Gabances, Pento Newri, Ingarichi, Cape North, and Margaria. The
Fisheries are not by any means carried to the extent they might be.

You are also connected with the Coal Mines at Pictou, will you be kind
enough to state how they are worked, on what plan, and to what extent '

They are worked by the General Mining Association, under the same
lease, on the same terms as the Cape Breton Mines. The Company got
possession of them in 1827, before which time the product did not exceed
1,500 Newcastle chaldrons. There has been a regular increase of pro-
duce since that time, and during the last year -48,000 tons were exported,
principally to the United States.

What is the quality of the coals ?

It is bituminous, well adapted for steam purposes, and for manufactories
of all kinds. It is also an excellent coal for producing gas.

From the demand for this coal of late, is there a probability of any
greater increase ?

Decidedly ; wc cannot keep pace with the demand ; but we are now
greatly exleiKling the works, so as next year to be able to double the pre-
sent produce.

Is the increased demand principally for steam navigation?

Yes, it is; the coal is becoming more generally known for its good
qualities in this particular^ and I have a report from the Captain and
Engineer of the Sirius, which used Pictou coal on her last voyage from
New York to England, and they consider it preferable to Liverpool,
but not equal to Swansea coal, which is considered the best of all English
coal for steam bouts.

Do you employ steam engines at the mines at Pictou ?

We have one engine of seventy horse power, two of thirty horse, one
of twenty horse, one of fourteen horse, and two of eight horse power,
each employed at the mines. AUo about 100 horses and 350 men in
regular employ, and at present 500 men. There is an iron foundery,
where we niaiMifacture bteam engines, We have also two steam boats
employed in duties connected with the mines.

What is the price of coal at this place ?

13s. 6d. Currency per ton, delivered on board.

Is there a large field of Cfial at this place ?

There is a very extensive field of coal, and no probability of its being
exhausted for centuries.

h the harbour at this place favourable for shipping ?

It is considered a safe and good harbour for vessels of all sizes.

Aie there any other articles of export from Pictou besides coals ?

There are grindstone and freestone quarries, of very good quality, and
worked, but not to a great extent. There are also a few cargoes of
timber exporled annually from Pictou, and occasionally some agricul-
tural produce.

Is the land generally settled about Pictou ?

It is pretty generally settled for twenty miles round Pictou.

Have you visited other parts of the Province?

" S-'il

SI
r:

I ^1

Yes. I am pretty well acquainted with and have visited the Northern
and Eastern portion>« nf the Province.

Have you observed on tlie mineral productions in (hose parts of I lie
country ?

There is an extensive coal field in Cumberland county ; there arc aisio
very fine grindstone quarries in the county, which supply the United
States ; beds of gypsum, also of good quality, and very fine quarries of
freestone. There are salt springs, but they are in the interior of the
country.

Are all the other productions you mention accessible to shipping?
A few beds of inferior coal are situated on the water, but the best
seam of coals is about twelve miles from &. shipping place. The gypsum,
the grindstone, and freestone quarries are all near places of shipment.

Have other minerals been discovered besides the above in the Pro-
vince?

Casual deposits of small extent of very rich ore of copper have been
found at Tatinagouche, Toney's River, Caraboo River, and on the West
River of Pictou, but we have never been able to trace them to a regular
code. The Company are now continuing their researches more particu,.
larly for copper and lead on the Shubenacadie River, with very gooil
hopes of success. There is a large iron vein near Pictou, but it has not
been found of a quality to encourage working.

Have you examined the part of the county of Cumberland between
the Bay of Fundy and Bay Verle ?
Yes, I have.

Have you made any examination as to the practicability of culling n
canal 1

I consider the ground is very favourable for such a measure, and that
the project is practicable.

What is the nature of the ground ?

Generally red earth and clay, and it would be quite impervious to
water.

Does the country rise to any height ?
No it does not. It is nearly a level country.
Do you know the rise of the tide at the extremity ?
The'rise on the Bay of Fundy is 68 feet, at the Bay Vert it is 7 or &
feet.

What is the nature of the soil of the country through which a canal
would pass?

It is a rich red soil, highly productive, and the country in the vicinity
is generally well settled by people who are doing well as farmers.

Are you acquainted with the depth of water on the coast on either
side ?

On the Bay of Fundy side there is plenty of water. On the Bay Vertc
side the coast is shoal, and the mouth of the canal would require protec-
tion by a breakwater.

What would be the length of the canal ?

About fifteen miles ; but by taking advantage of the Au Lac River the
distance would be shortened four or five miles.

In observing on the Province generally, do you consider there is as
much improvement of late years as might be expected in a new country
with the resources that are available ?
Decidedly there is not.

ited the Northern

Ihose parts of the

y ; there are also
ipply the United
ry fine quarries ol'
s interior of the

! to shipping?
ater, but the best
ce. The gypsum,
es of shipment.

above in the Pro-
copper have been
*, and on the West
Ihem to a regular

hes more particu..

with very good

tou, but it lias not

nberland between

bility of cutting a
measure, and that

lite impervious to

ly Vert it is 7 or 8

Jgh which a canal

itry in the vicinity

IS farmers.

;he coast on either

On the Bay Verte
uld require prolec-

! Au Lac River the

consider there is as
1 in a new countrv

To Tfhat do you attribute the want of improvement T

The present settlers occupy {oo much land. They have more than
they can improve. The country wants opening out by roads through
lands capable of cultivation. A great drawback also arises from large
tracts of land lying in an unimproved state, belonging to persons not
settled on them.

What remedy do you think could be applied la remove the evils above
mentioned ?

By adopting some plan for the bringing the good land, — now in a wild
state, — into improvement.

Do you consider a penal tax, in the form of a tax on unimproved land,
with a remission of the fine in proportion to improvements, would have
that effect, provided the amount of such tax was judiciously applied to.
making roads and to other improvements in the country '!

I think that would be the best remedv.

What, in your opinion, ought to be the amount of such a tax ?

Five shillings per hundred acres.

To your knowledge is there a deficiency in the surveys in the Province ?

There is a want of a good map of the country, and at a future day I
am afraid (here will be much litigation on account of the inaccuracy of
the old surveys in purchasing land. I have made surveys and have found
great errors in the original surveys that have been made.

Have you any remark to make as to the system of road money, and:
the system of road making 1

The present system is very defective, about £10,000 are voted an-
nually for (he roads, which is generally expended in small sums, by per-
sons wholly unacquainted with road making. I understand there are
(his year 800 Commissioners appointed to spend £8000 ; we shall never
have good roads in the Province under such a system. I would recom-
mend a large sum sufficient to make all the main lines in the Province,
to be borrowed, and the interest to be paid out of the annual grant that
is now made, we should then have in two or three years good roads-
throughout the Province, and wildernesa lands opened out and brought
into cultivation. I think it would advance the Province at least half a
<^ntury, taking its present rate of progress. The determination of (he
lines and control of the expenditure should be managed by three or four
Commissioners, more attention would be paid to the drawing of the roads,,
and covering them with gravel, where it can be obtained, and there are
few places where it cannot.

What is your opinion as to the system of working roads by statute-
labour as now acted upon ?

I think the whole of the labour is thrown away — this kind of work is
abused and thought lightly of. There ought to be a tax in money iik
lieu of labour.

88
Mr, JafM8 McKeneie, Draftman in Surveyor General's Office.

Illf

i .'

Have you resided long in the Province f

Twenty-five years.

During that time have you visited different parts of it ?

I have visited most parts.

What have been your principal occupation t

Until within seven years I followed the farming business, and since
that time the surveying bueinesss, both in the field and in the Surveyor
General's Office.

Have you attended to settlers on their first arrival in the Province, in
obtaining grants of land, and getting them into possession of the same ?

I have done so, particularly in Cape Breton.

Will you state the mode of proceeding in the above cases in Cnpe Bre-
ton and also in Nova Scotia, as far as the latter has come under your
attention 1

The lots after being surveyed were set up at public sale and sold to llic
best bidder, and in some cases individuals were allowed to obtain tliern,
upon paying the upset price. In Nova Scotia most ol the lots sold have
been in detached situations, and particularly applied for by the parlies
who purchase them

You are acting in this Province as an authorized surveyor ?

Yes.

Have you in many instances found it impossible to make correct sur-
veys in consequence of inaccuracy as to former lots of land, which, of
necessity, you measure from ?

I have, and also from surveys being inaccurately made by persons not
qualified. In the latter cases I have ascertained the inaccuracies that
could not be altered in consequence of improvements made on them — in
many cases also the boundaries of lands granted, have never been surveved
or hid out at all.

Is the present state of surveys inadequate and injurious to the setlle-
nient of the land ?

Yes.

Are there a sufTicient nufnber of qualified surveyors in the country to
answer all puvposea that might be required of them '?

There are well qualified surveyors to act, if sufficient encouragement
was held out, but at present any person is allowed to survey, except in
Crown lands, and this prevents qualified persons entering into the
business.

Have you given attention to tiie roads in th.e country ?

i have taken surveys of roads, and have acted as overseer in construct-
ing roads.

What is the application of the system of road making by statute
labour ?

The cross roads are generally made by statute labour, and the people
have their interest so much at stake, that they enter heartily into it, but
in the neighbourhood of towns, some people pay persons to work for
them; there is much abuse in the system, by inadequate and inferior
persons being employed. There is also great mischief from the non-em*
ploymeiit of adequate persons to manage the labor on the roads ; in my
opinion, money is frequently thrown away from the above causes.

iJ4

Office.

ess, and since
in tlie Surveyor

10 Province, in
of the same ?

iS in Cape Bre-
iine under your

and sold to the
o obtain tlictn,
3 lots sold have
)y the panics

ror ?

kc correct sur-
and, which, ol

by persons not

iccuracies that

on them — in

been surveyed

s to the sftlle-

he country to

;ncouragenient
vey, except in
•ing into the

r in construct-

ig by statute

nd the people
ily into it, but
to work tor
and inferior
the non-em-
roads ; in my
auscs.

Is there any defect in the mode in which grants arc made for the con-
struction or improvement of roads ?

Yes., great defect ; monies are given in such small quantities, that
roads are nut completely made throughout ; if money was given to com-
plete roads at once, those roads would be brought into immediate use,
and would confer benefit on the country, but at present probably one-
tenth of a road is made each year, till tne whole is complete, and, there-
fore, the communication throughout cannot be taken advantage of.
The waste of moneys and the injury caused by the system must be too
evident.

Taking a distance of road, what would be the average expense of con-
structing it per mile through wilderness lands ?

One hundred and fifty pounds.

What would be the average rate of making road throu{.1.. clear land ?

Eighty pounds.

What is the average quantity of cleared land generally made by settlers?

Between fifty and seventy acres cleared, is copsidofed a good farm.

Is that quantity all under plough ?

Only part of it, occasionally, this quantity includes pasture.

In what number of years would a farmer be expected to have this quan-
tity of cleared land i

In about 20 years, this quantity would be brought from a wildernesii
state.

How much wood land would serve a family for the year's consumption (

Including fences, about one and a ht^lf acres, if cut in one contiguous
piece.

What capital, in your opinion, is necessary for a settler, to give him
every chance of success ?

About £50 exclusive of land.

Provided a man commenced on the above terms, how long would it be
before he could pay instalments towards liquidating his debt ?

In three years, 1 should say, he could pay ten pounds, and he could
continue to pay the same each year following, (thi? to include taxes.

Are there any large blocks of good land ir> t)ie Prpvince that still remain
unsettled ?

Yes, several.

Do these tracts belong to the Cro\vn ?

Very few, they belong in almost all cases to private individuals.

How are roads made through such tract of country ?

Chiefly by statute labor by persons residing in the neighbourhood of
these places.

Does the non settlement of such tracts materially check improvement
in the country ?

Yes, I knew of one tract of land between Mary-gomish, in the county
of Pictou, and Antigonist in the county of Sydney, when a road of 8 miles
passes through with only two or three settlers on the road.
The same objection does not so fully apply to Crown lands, as in these
cases, where roads are made, property can be obtained on application
being made for it.

Do the parties possessing those large blocks of land rontnb^ite in any
way towards roads or other public works ?

Most of those large tracts are old grants, and go.icr.iiy rtiiiain in the
wild slate, and »mtil selllcmcnt is made, they 'Jo not vofitiibute to pub..
lie impiovciij; it.

m/: !

|;f ^j

l:^^-' ' ' li

■)

W^'^ "^

ft .

f
I '

8 '

Have you observed any large tracts of countrv possesssing capabilities
for improvement and settlement, and for which no steps are taken to
accomplish such objects ?

The present year I have surveyed part of the township of Clare. I
found one grant containing (^5,510 acres, granted in 1H17, to French
Acadians, residing in that township, containing as good land for culti.
vation as any in that part of the Province, and on this grant only about 5
acres are cleared. In the adjoining grant, containing 21,300 acres, with
but few settlers upon it, probably U, there is also good land, it was
granted in 1703.
Are these grants made on condition of settlement f
Yes.

Those conditions have not been fulfilled 1
No.

To what do you attribute the want of improvement in this country T
The proprietors of those grants are following other occupations than
acriculture, or are wealthy people, they look to a rise of price in the value
of lands.

Is any largo portion of any of those lands the property of the Crown T
None of those tracts I mention.

Are any large tracts of good land in the Province, the property of tha
Crown ?

There are no large tracts, but there are detached pieces of good land
in many parts of the Province.

What do you consider to be a large tract f

I consider a large tract 10,000 acres } I consider it would be difficult to
get above 5,000 acres of gooid land, the property of the Crown in one
tract.

You have stated the want of roads is the bar to improvement, and the
chief obstacle to having roads, is the quantity of unoccupied lands, what
do you consider would be a remedy for this evil P

To escheat lands liable to escheat for non-fulfilment of conditions of
improvement, and to require parties holding wild lands to pay a tax to-
wards general improvement.

Provided such tax was employed in the improvement of the country,
and to settling it, what in your opinion ought to be its amount ?

Generally a farm occupying two hundred acres pays equal to 18s. to-
wards roads. I should say the tax on wild lands should be in the same
proportion, with exception where improvements are begun.

Do you consider there is room for much improvement and increase of
settlement ?

There is much room for improvement, first, by a subdivision of lands
now held by occupants, and also by occupation of wild lands which are
not yet in cultivation.

You have been for some years a resident in Cape Breton, can you give
any information as to the capabilities existing in that Island for improve-
ment ?

There are extensive Iracts^ of good Crown hmd about tlie head of the
river, inhabited between the Mabou rivers, and the road leading from
J udiquc to river Denis, about Murgaree, or lake Anslie, and near Cape
North, and a few detached piecea in other parts of Cape Breton. There
are a great number of large pine trees oa most of the tracts which I
uentioQfid*

ising enpabilitici
ps are taken to

ip of Clare. I
817, to French
i land for culti.
ant only about i
,300 acres, witli
lod land, it wait

this country T
)Ccupation8 than
price in the value

^ or the Crown t

e property of tho

3ce8 of good land

luld be difficult to
9 Crown in one

tvement, and the
pied lands, what

of conditions of
I to pay a tax to-

t of the country,

mount ?

iqual to 1 8s. to-

i be in the same

iin.

>t and increase of

bdivision of lands
1 lands which are

ton, can you give
land for improvc-

t the head of the
road leading from
ie, and near Cape
)e Breton. There
le tracts which I

What clans of inhabitants reside at Cope Breton ?
Chiefly French, and fishermen from the western Islands of Scotland.
Bv what tenure do tlicy principally hold their lands t*
This information can only be obtained at the Offio« of the Secretary of
the Province.

: 41

JJ ',1

>■ ■■! il

*■/

II , ;,

■

1 '■

•i

1 '

Charles W. JVallace, E,»(\. Treasurer.

The road syitem in ll>c Province has been remarked on m being
defective, will you be kind enough to (umisii your opinion on the
lubjecl 'i

1 think the system is decidedly injurious tu the general interest ot (he
Province.

What is the principle on which road money is now granted ?

There is one sum granted annually for ronds generally, and thin u
pretty equally subdivided ench year, amongst all the counties of the
Province.

Has this division no reference to the claims of diflerent fundtt ul tho
country at the time '^

None whatever.

What steps are then taken lo dispose of the monies ?

The members of counties proportion the money to various roads and
bye roads, and recommend commissioners, who with very lew exceptions,
are ap|)ointed to manage the roads ; the suggestion of the Qovernor in
the nomination of commissioners would be objected to, he therefore hm
no control over the money, the number of commissioners nominated this
year was about 830, to expend <CIO,(.)00, and in one county there were
97 to expend £750.

Do the commissioners receive remuneration while so employed ?

'^'es, they receive '>s. per day in addition to 5 per cent commission on
money expended.

Is attention given to the competency of the parties employed on these
occasions ?

No, nothin;; is attended to in this respect ; persons are frequently ap-
pointed who could have no previous knowledge of road making.

How does the system answer of requiring statute labour from occupiers
of land ?

|}y a late enactment of the Assembly, the road accounts recpiirc to be
checked by the Auditor, who requires a certificate of statute labour to be
given^before the amount of road money is paid. That Act is now dispensed
with, in consequence of which statute labour is done at a season
more convenient to parties, and at a time of the year when the public does
not receive the benefit it otherwise would.

Was the annual grants in previous years nearly the same as you have
mentioned ?

It has been as great as £30.000 in one year, the general average is
about £12,000 per year.

From your long acquaintance with the Province, has any particular
circumstances occurred to you as being detrimental to improvement in
the Province, and tending to check its prosperity ]

The readiness of members to grant small sums of money (o new settlers,
and to any applicants, subdivides the money so materially, as to leave
no money for new roads or general improvements of waste lands. In-
dividuals have settled on good lands, and have been obliged to desert
them from having no approach to their farms. Large blocks of land being
in the hands of individuals who have no desire to improve them, militate
much against the advancement of the country.

What remedy would you propose for the above evils ?

1 ou as boiiig
pinion on the

intcrtitt ol the

ed ?

y, and UiIk itt

•ountit's of the

It fundi ol tho

L)us rouds and
ew exceptions,
le Governor in
therefore hu*
iioniiiuUed thi«
ty there were

)loyed ?
commission on

loyed on these

fre(|uently ap-

ting.

from occupiers

require to be

te labour to be

now dispensed

at a season

he public does

e as you have

'al average is

any particular
provement in

new settlers,
h as to leave
e lands. In*
ged to desert
i of land being
hem, militate

A certain tax on each 100 acres of uninBpr>v«d land, provided the
money w>\, judiciously ap[)lied to road* ai o improvement, anl to
settling Iho country.

NVhat in your opinion ought to the amount of 4ucU a tax ?

Five ihiiiinga each IDO acres.

'.[

(■.

■

■'^ i ."1^ :.

if.

H-ii

SI-.,

!;( •* • *

I Hi

iJi* :

;:ll*-

it-

i''<

John Fairbanks, Esquire.

cngawed

Are you a native of Nova Scotia ?
Yes.

You have had cause to give attention to the fisheries, wilt you be
kind enough to state what in your opinion would best forward the interest
of the Province in respect to this measure ?

Compelling the Americans to observe strictly the limits to which they
are confined by Treaty.

Will you state the outlines of this treaty, and where it is abused ?

The Report of the Committee of the House of Assembly of Nova
Scotia, 1837, on the subject of the fisheries, will give all the detail con-
nected with this question.

It will be seen that the Americans come on our coast, and in the
out harbour, quarrel with our fishermen, and destroy the increase in our
fishing, that ought to take place.

What portion of the inhabitants of the Province do you suppose are
' n the fisheries?

Probably one half. Ourfit-hcries extend round the whole coast of
Nova Scotia.

Do you suppose the fisheries capable of any great extention ?

We find it extends annually by our dealings, our supplies to fisher-
men 5 or 6 years ago, did not exceed £5000 a year, now it extends to
three times the amount. I conceive this business is capable of being
encreased to an unlimited extent.

To what do you attribute the circumstarc'C mentioned in the Report
of Americans being successful competitors in fisheries carried on on our
own coast?

To the great demand and consumption in the United States, and th%
high prices.

Do not the Americans also supply foreign ports to the injury of our
fishermen ?

Tlicy do

lliiw do you account for this ?

'riiore is more capital required in this Province to be invested in the
tisiieriesi, the American Government holding out better encouragement,
iiulucesHome of our best men to join their service.

Is there any want of population on our coast to meet the demand for
till' fisheries ?

I chould say, decidedly, throughout the whole coast.

Have you observed the system of agriculture carried on along the
coast 1

Yes — it is limited on the fishing stations — the men are engaged in
tishing, and the women are obliged to attend to agricultural pursuits.

Does agricultural pu-'suits as well as the fishing, employ and olfer
sutticieiit encouragement to separate the above occupations, and would
.such a measure be beneficial and further the fisheries of the Province ?

There is room for l)oth, and the mode now pursued injures the fisheries,
there might be a vast quantity ofsheep kept on the eastern shore of the
I'rovincc, as well as the coarser kinds of grain raised, also hay and
|iotatoes.

The general character of the coast of Nova Scotia is rocky, and not
thought to be encouraging for agriculture. Have you had any experi,
encc in this pursuit on such kind of laud ?

1, will you be
ird the interest

to wliich they

s abused ?
einbly of Nova
the detail con-
si, and in the
increase in our

u suppose are

whole coast ol'

ition ?

plies to fisher-
V it extends to
pable of being

1 in the Report
ried on on our

ilates, and th%

injury of our

invested in the
icouragement,

he demand for

on along the

e engaged in
ral pursuits.
>loy and oiler
ns, and would
Province ?
esthe fisheries,
n shore of the
also hay and

ocky, and not
ul any ex peri.

Yes — and from tho knowledge of the coast, and from the number ot
good harbours it contains, and from the quality of tho lands in (he
neighbourhood, I am satisfied an extensive agricultural population might
be supported.

From your experience and knowledge of the Province, do you cmi-
sider it progressing in improvement as fast as its naturaly capabilities
admit of?

Not by any means.

As to its agriculture, to what do you attribute its want of improve-
ment ?

Want of capital and of labour, and of good roads particularly — aUc
want of agricultural skill and implements.

Its prosperity is much checked by large portions of the land beii)<;' lit
the hands of absent proprirtors, or persons who Jo not cultivate tlicm
and bring them into the market. Wliat remedy do you consider mif^hi
be applied to this evil ?

One remedy in my opinion, was embodied in a bill brought into tin..
House of Assembly fast year« to grant land on condition of improvement.
I also think a tax on wild laud, or escheat of wild land, if not improved,
is absolutely called for.

Provided such a tax was existing, and that all the money so raised was
judiciously applied to improvements in the Province, what in your
opinion ought to be its amount ?

Ten shillings per 100 acres on land in a wilderness state, I think would
not be too much.

Lawrence Hartshorne, Esquire.

?!:••>

2 *f :■•■

&■■)

Are you a native of the Province ?

Yes.

From your knowledge of the resources of the Province is it your
opinion there is very great room for advantageous investment of capital,
and for increase of population ?

The natural advantages of the country are very good, and not at all
developed. There is room for great improvement and increase in *he
fisheries, in agriculture, in mining, and in mills, and in coarse manufac-
tures.

What is principally wanted to advance improvement in these objects ?

The introduction of an industrious class of emigrants and of scientific
farmers, and improvement in the internal communication in the country ;
particularly a better distribution of public money expended on the roads.

Are there now any works in progress likely to open the resources you
speak of ?

There is no work of more consequence in my opinion than the
Shubenacadie Canal. It would connect Halifax harbour with the
Bay of Fundy by an inland navigation of neaily forty miles,
and would communicate with all the extensive coast of the Bay
of Fundy, giving a perfect security to trade between the Colonies
in case of war. It would also open an extensive source of trade with
the country between Halifax and the head of the Basin of Mines. In the
event of the proposed Canal being cut between the Bay of Fundy find the
Gulf of St. Lawrence great facilities would be given to the trade between
Halifax and the St.Lawrencci and the facilities that would be there afford-
ed for safe trade in case of war would be most beneficial. The importance
of this measure is more fully detailed in memorials to Her Majesty's Go-
vernment from the Council and House of Assembly for this Province, for-
warded early in the present year.

Has anv money been already expended in this work ?

Yes, between £80,000 and £100,000.

Is the work now advancing ?

It is not progressing for want of means, but it is expected that assist-
ance will be granted by Her Majesty's Government An agent from the
parties engaged in this undertaking is at present in England in communi-
cation with the Government.

Is much of the work completed ?

Yes ; the heavy part, inchuling locks and cuttings, are far advanced,
and some of these are completed.

Is it your opinion that a tax on wild lands, judiciously applied to im-
provement, would be desirable, and one that would tend to advance the in..
terest of the Province ?

If such i' tax Avas employed to open internal communication through

lauds available to agriculture, and to advance

emigration

of a proper

description of persons, it would, no doubt, have a most beneficial effect.
This lax ought to be on lands not in progress of improvement.

What, in your opinion, would be a fair rate per 100 acres, if such a tax
was dclermined upon !!

About 2,-; per 100 acres v,-oukl induce parties to improve and dispost
yf their land.

nee is it your
lent of capital,

and not at all
ncrease in *he
oarse manufac-

thcse objects ?
lid of scientific
in the country ;
I on the roads,
e resources you

nion than the

•hour with the

' forty miles,

St of the Bay

1 the Colonies

of trade with

Mines. In the

Fundy and the

trade between

be there afford-

The importance

' Majesty's Go-

s Province, for-

ed that assist-
agent from the
d in communis

far advanced,

applied to im-
dvancc the in..

cation througi.
of a proper
?ncfjcipl effect.

lit.

, if sue!) a tax

ve nnd dispos'..

William Lawson, Esquire.

You are a native of this Province ?

Yes.

From your extensive knowledge of the Province, aid ils rismicrs,
is it your opinion that any exiensive increase inipjlil <nko plarc in its
iigricultiiral population, and in its prosperity j^cnoraiiy '

Certainly — particularly in its tiahcries, with which [ am well ac-
quainted. The fishing of Nova Scotia extends all round from I ho head
of the Bay of Fundy to Bay Verte, extending alonpj a coa.«t of
miles, intersected in all parts wi(h bays, rivers and harbonrs, affording
facilities for fishing in cod, pollock and Haddock, herring, mackerel,
and salmon.

The trade in fisli forms an important feature in this Province ':*

Yes it is the ctiicf article of export.

Ts it capable of large increase ?

Yes, and would be more so, only for tlie interference of the Americans
on our coast.

You have visited difTeront parts of the coast ?

Yes.

Is there much room for agricultural improvement on lands in the
vicinity of the coast, and which are now neglected ?

Certainly, and there is a good deal of land on the coast reclaimed from
amongst rocks.

Is tTie business of agriculture and fishing much combined by persons
residing on the coast V

Yes.

If a sufficient number of persons were disposable, could tlie occupa-
tion of farmers and fishermen be carried on with advantage to both, and
more to he the benefit of the Province generally ?

I should think there would be room for both occupations with
lid vantage.

Is there a large business in fishing carried on by persons in the Pro-
vince, independent of (he coast fishing ?

Yes — out of different harbours in the Province — there arc vessels from
40 to 100 tons and upwards, which fish at Labrador and Gulf of St,
Lawrence for cod fish, salmon, mackerel and herring.

Can you mention any particular cause why the fisheries of the Pro-
vince arc not so nourishing as they might be, and any thing that might
be adopted to advance them ?

The American interference is principally the cause why our fisheries
are not more productive. A tonnage duty for a large description of
vessels to be employed the whole of the season m the actual catch of the
fish, would, I think, lead to beneficial results,

It has been stated, that large tracts of country arc left in a wild state,
and prevent the iinprovenieut by industrious settlers, what in your
opinion is the best remedy for the evil ?

If the terms of grant of settlement arc not complied with, they oupht
to bcescheatc'l. On the lands where the grants have been only nomi-
nally complied with, but not advancing in improvement, 1 uoiild recom-
mend a duty on such land to be laid out in improvirig Iho country, and,
opening new roads, and forwarding a good dcscripliori of emigrants

-!i

If such a tax were determined upon, aind fbdioiously applied to iui-
provements in the country, what do you think would be a fair sum tu
require for each 100 acres.

When no attention is giyen to improvements in the country, I should
say from SOs. to 408 per 100 acres, and less in proporlion to improve
raent. Improved farms ought not to be taxed.

Your remarks on the fisheries extend to Cape Breton ?

Yes, where there is a large fishery carried on.

ma-

B' ■

i.:

.A^M.^'^

?l i

applied to itn.
a fair sum tu

Duntry, I ishould
on to improve-

49
The Reverend Dr. WilUa, Archdeacon of Nova Scotia.

In the absence of the Lord Bishop of Nova Scotia, will you favor tuc
with any information respecting various lots of ground contained in tliis
list, (see Appendix,) furnished by the Secretary of the Province, being
lands granted at different periods for purposes of religion and educatiun'?

By the Law of the Province now in force for the encoura^^ement of
schools, £5,000 is granted to assist in remunerating teachers who may be
employed in different parts of the Province. The Commissioners aii-
pointed to distribute this sum are authorised to afford encouragement tw
schools wheresoever established, in conformity with the said law. The
Province is divided into districts, and a certain sum allotted by the law to
each.

If emigration should take place to this Province on a large scale, i*? there
any regulation by which persons settling in parts of the country not having
schools could obtain the benefit of education?

The above named law provides that the inhabitants of any school (!is_
trict shall receive a certain sum in aid of their school upon their subscrib-
ing not less than £25 per annum (exclusive of boarding) for the teacher ;
or a certain other sum upon subscribing not less than £40 per annum.
The number of scholars required to be sent to this fast class of schools
(£40) is thirty and upwards, and to the second class (£25) is from tilteeu
to thirty. The sum for either class is not specified ; but it depends on the
number of schools in the district. The maximum for the first class is
£20, and £15 for the second class. The Commissioners are authorised
first to appropriate a small sum in aid of such places, whose inhabitants
are unable to comply with the above requisites. A further sum is granted
for the encouragement of a better class of schools, called Combined Com-
mon Grammar Schools, in which are taught, — besides the common bran-
ches, — grammar, geography, mathematics, or the classics. If ciuht
scholars in any of these last named branches, £25 per annum is allowed.
If fifteen and upwards are taught therein, £3o is allowed by the Pro-
vince.

Are all the lands contained in thai list* considered to be church lands ?

All, with a few exceptions, that are marked in the list.

The statement you liave made of improvement in glebes contained in
this list, includes all that to your knowledge is in a state of improve-
ment ?

Others may be in a state of progressive improvement, but to no great
extent.

Do you suppose there are many squatters on church lands?

Yes. I am not aware that the Bishop has authorised settlers on the
Dean and Chapter lands.

Do you consider that any alteration in the appropriation of cliurch
l.inds might be advantageously adopted/

If 500 acres of good land in every 30 square miles were properly secur-
ed for a glebe it would be very desirable, but I think by no means suffi-
cient to meet the future exigencies of the church.

In case of any considerable emigration to the Province and the settle-
ment of portions of it now in a wild state, are there any means by which
clergymen could be provided for in the event of such new parishes ?

Stc Sir Rupert Georges' evidence. Appendix No. 8.

-J?

11 1.

>■]

yA H^

if^

li'

Some pro>i8ion may perhaps be supplied by the Society for the Pro-
pagation of the Gospel. This would not be sufficient for tlie entire sup-
port of the clergy.

Is there any proviiion made in the Province by the appropriation of
reserved lands to meet future exigencies and an increase of the clergy ?

There are no lands granted except for churches that are already in ex-
istence. ■ -_ . , , . . „ _. „, . , ,-. ^ .^. J-.,,

Glebe Lands.

I regret the absence of the Bishop, who would more fully reply to your
queries than I am able to do. I have pleasure, however, in supplying you
with what information may be within my reach on the subject of church
and school lands.

There are in the Province 32 rectories, all of which, with 3 or 4 excep.
tions, have glebes attached to them, varying from 400 to 600 acres.
Some of these have been partially improved ; others, from their situation
or unfitness for cultivation, are unproductive.

There are eleven glebes which yield from £5 to £30 per annum re-
spectively, as follows : —

£25—5—4 or 5—8—14—1 5—20—20—30—10—1 5
(1—2— 3 —4— 5— 6— 7— 8— 9—10—11)

Total amount of glebe rent per annum £167

School Lands.

The Governor is authorised by an Act of the Legislature to appoint
trustees for the management of school lands- In a few instances only
has this been acted upon ; when the proceeds have been applied towards
fhe support of the schoolmaster.

m lii

ty for the Pro-
tiie entire sup-

ppropriation of
f the clergy ?
already in ex-

ly reply to your
n supplying you
bject of church

■h 3 or 4 excep-

to 600 acres.

: their situation

per annum re>

0—15

[>— 11)

£167

lure to appoint

instances only

applied towards

The Honorable Samuel Cunatd.

From your extensive knowledge of the country, is there any measure
more than another yon think ought to be attended to, to adfvance the
interest of the Province ?

I think by making good roads, and by this means opening the
resources of the countrvi the most beneficial effects would result.

It has been remarked that great injury iias been sustained by large
quantities of lands remaining in a wilderness slate, what, in your opinion,
would be the best means of remedying this evil ?

I think good roads would remedy the difficnlty in a great degree. I
also think that owners of large tracts of land onght (o be compelled to
give some attention by a tax on land or otherwise.

You are a large proprietor, and have given attention to this question,
and if a tax on wilderness land was determed upon, and if the proceeds
of such a tax were judiciously appropriated to improvements in the
country, and to advancing emigration, what in your opmion, ought to
be the amount of such a tax ?

I do not feel myself competent to say what the tax should be, but I
should think large proprietors should be compelled to contribute to-
wards the general improvement of the country. My opinion is deci-
dedly, that all monies raised in this way, ought to gu altogether to the
improvement of the country.

In your opinion, is there considerable room in the Province for in-
creasing its population in agricultural pursuits, and otherwise extensive
resources for good and safe investment for capital ?

I think capital may be very well invested in the purchase and im.
provement of lands, and there is plenty of room for industrious settlers,
who are sure to do well.

You are extensively concerned in the mining operation in this Pro.
vince, is there not every prcbability of progressive increase and demand
for labor in reference to such undertaking ?

There is ; a good number of laborers are now employed, and furnish a
vast consumption of agricultural produce, and there is room for the fur-
ther extension of such operations. We are daily increasing our opera-
tions, aud have the most favorable expectation of future success.

1 ^■

i> k <*

George Young, Esquire.

Have you visited most parts of this Province ?

I have been over all parts of it.

Is it your opinion that the country advances as fast as its natural capa-
bilities admit of ? .,, .,,;-, . ,, • ,

I do not think it does.

Is there, in your opinion, any considerable room for increase of emigra-
tion ?

I know from information un which I can depend, and from inspection
of part of them, there are large and fertile tracts at present unsettled

As regards internal improvement of this country, I think its agricul-
ture is greatly retarded from a general inattention to scientific improvu-
ments of other countries, from no means being taken, of a public clmrac-
ter, to introduce a change of seed, — for improvement in breed of cattit,
and to an introduction of the best improved models of agricultural impii -
ments and machinery. In other countries, depending on the agricultural
resources, the objects of public improvements are attended to by gentle-
men of capital and leisure, whereas in this Province they are greatly ne-
glected by this class, and, unfortunately, by agriculturalists themseclvs.
The expensive habits created by the late war still retards the improvement
of the country in many districts. Its improvement is also impeded l)v the
desire felt by the rising young men to emigrate to Upper Canada, Texas,
and to the United States, and the stream of emigration passes Nova
Scotia on account of prejudices which have been circulated, and I think
improperly, by popular authors. As to its climate and resources, I have
no hesitation in stating as an opinion, that there are few countries better
fitted for an honest and industrious man.

As regards commerce, its extent and importance is perniciously affected
by the interference which the Americans have made* under the late trea-
ties, on our shore and bank fishing ; — the effect of this is of too compre-
hensive a character to be given in reply to this question. While in Lon-
don in 1834, 1 was solicited by gentlemen connected with the Colonies to
give a legal and practical view of the question, and I hand now for in-
formation the work which I then published at their request. I also,
while in London last winter, wrote a report upon the state of the fisher-
ies at the present time, being then consulted as to the practical relief
which it was in the power of Government to afford for grievances now
complained of. I will send a copy of this report.

;8 natural capti-

ease of emiy;ra-

from inspection
: unsettled
link its ngricuL
ntific improve-
1 public charac-
breed of cattle,
icultural implc-
the agricultural
d to by gentle -
' are greatly hl-
ists themseelvs.
lie improvement
impeded i)v the
Canada, Texas,
on passes Nova
;ed, and I think
esources, I have
countries better

liciously affected
r the late trea-
3 of too compre-
While in Lon-
the Colonies to
nd now for in-
xiuest. I also,
ite of the fisher-
practical relief
grievances now

^ .

Appendix No. 1.

A List of some of the large Grants in the Province of Nova Scotia,
which have not been Escheated.

Date of

Grant.

1784

1765

301 h Oct,

Major Wright & 328 others,
Jas. Lyons & others,
Alex. Lord Colville,
Benj. IIullowcl, Esq.
Geo. Sn)ilh, Esq.
1784 Wm. Sutherland & 60 others.

1773 John Greer,
Jonnathan Biiincy,

1774 IHeiiry Newton,
1773 iJonatlnui Belcher,

The Hon. Chs. Morris,
1 769 Hon. Jno. Collier & Gerrish,
I "83 Hon. Jno. Creij^hton,
1765 Thos. Newton & 2 others,
1773 Samuel Harris,
1765 Robl. Campbell,
1804 Jona. Blenchard & Ihc lion.

Lawrence Ilarlshoine Loydists
1 765 Jos F. VV. Dcsbarrea, Esq.

1783 jjas. Morden, Esq.
iDavid Pliillips,
Phillip Van Cortland,

176.') Michl. Franklin, Esq.

Jas. F. W. Dosbarres, Esq.
Geo. A. Gameliii,
Joseph Scott, Es(j.

1784 jlsaac Wilkins, Esq.

1765 Sir Jno, Went worth, Bart.

1775 jRichard Williams,

i " " about

1765 ICol. Henry JNIunro,

i
1765 'Jonathan Hoar,
1780 |Capt. Thos. Burnett,
1765 Rev. Jno. Brcynton,
1772 ;Capt. Monllon,
1 798 lAlc.x F. Cochrane,

(5(5000 •^"""'y of 'l"' Gujiljoruugh count r.

ISOOOo'st. Mary's River, "
15000 King's Creek
20000 Calm Harbour
SOOOLisconibe's Harbour "

1 2250 ^- "I !>l>cc' Hr. River nulifui cuu

Sheet Harbour River
Sheet Harbour

<i II ir

10000

5000

3000

1 0000 Spry Harbour
10000 Pope's Harbour
20000 Tangier "

2000 Pope's

2000 Calm or Little Hr.

23000 Antigonisli Sydney county.
200( >0 Ttttiimaouulie Ilr. CuklieUer Co.

5000 AylL'sforil, King's County.

5000 "

2600 "

20000 Cuiiibcrhiud Uusin, Cuiubei Kind Co.
8000 " " "

20000 Napau River, "

7000 a>:l«ccu Lukeville Ili»cr, and Luka
rnnni Gliomas.

•JUUUjE. side Joidau River Slielburne Co.
20000!Merigoinisli, I'ictou county.

lOOOOlWcst side Middle River.

lOOOO lict^veeii Fictou and .uiiibou Ilr.

2000 ^'' '"'^ Anmipolis river, township of
I Wilniol, Aunapoliu county.

5000 \V. side Bear River, Digby.
5000Argyle, Yarmouth Co.
aooo " " "

3000! "

2500 Petite River, Hans Co.
1500 Nine Mile River.

'■■*

31 .1

h: .
,"-■ * ,

B'lih I

1775

1799

1817

1801

1816

1835
1765

1771

1761
1784

1810
1785
1783

Ist grant to French Accadians

township of Clare,
2nd ffrant Francis Corneau

and 6) others,
3rd grant Fredk. Guiddery,
; and 1328 others,
Jos. Matuson, and 26 others,
i French,
Arthur Williams, and 81 others

(French)
Jos. Habiuand other8(French)
ijos. Fernet and others,
jWm. Nisbett and others,
Matthew Parks and others,
James Teadley,
iRobt. Sloan,
Benoni Dentriamont, and 17

others (French)
James Milue,
Benj. Genish,
Martin Meagher,

Locality.

9092 Towoiblp of Clait, count; »t ttithj.

21300J " " ' '

35510 " " " " " "

4874Argyle, county of Yarmoulh.

16400,Tu9ket Rivers, " "
lll56;Argyle, " '•

22000 New Dublin, I^unenbourg couiitj
10000

1500

1000

5000 Oa kotli lidci Pubnico Hr. Co. Tornoutb
5000 Tony's HiTcr, county ofPictou.
1 0000 Cobcquia Bay, county of CumbtrUad.
5000 Muiquodoboit river, rount; of llvliHii.

Total. . 675576

Ml;.

I i

lit,.

ouut; af Dr|k7.

II II <i

II <i II

r Yarnriouih.

II ic

II It

lenboarg county

1 1
«

1 Hr. Co. Ytmoutb

inty ofPiciou.

I of CumbtrUad.
rount; of II»lir*i.

No. 2.

All account of the number of square miles and acres of land conttiine'l
within each county of the Province of Nova Scotia", the Townships
therein, the number of acres granted, and the quantity now remainin*;
in right of the Crown, with some general observations upon the quality
of the land, Sue, : —

ANNAPOLIS COUNTY

Contains about 900,000 acres, and includes within it the townships
of Annapolis, Granville, Wilmot, and a portion of Clements.

About 500,000 acres have been granted in this county.

The township of Annapolis is the elder, indeed the oldest settlement
made by the English in the Province, and contains a large portion of
good land.

It possesses a fine harbour, easy of access, and the Annapolis River is
a fine stream, having on both sides of it valuable meadow land, and
abounding with fish of different kinds ; but all the lands within it have
long since been granted, and I am not aware of there bein^ any land
that could be escheated. It is situated upon the south side of the
river.

This county contains very rich iron ore in the neighbourhood of Nic-
tan, and Sissibo and other places.

The township of Granville is bounded on the south by the Annapolis
River, and on the north by the Bay of Fundy, extending from tho Gut
of Annapolis to the township of Wilmot. It contains no ungranled
land within it, and I am not aware of there being any land liable to
escheat.

The township of Wilmot is bounded on the west by Granville, on the
north by the Bay of Fundy, on the south by the Annapolis River, and
on the east by the county of Kings. It contains no ungranted land, nor
am I aware of there being any liable to escheat.

The township of Clements is bounded on the west by Bear River, on
the north by the Annapolis River and Basin, and on the west by the
township of Annapolis There is some land ungranted, and some
liable to escheat in this township.

The County of Annapolis affords no opening for the settlement of poor
emigrants. A large portion of the ungranted Crown Lands being barren,
and no large tracts of good land in one body remaining ; but to the in-
dustrious and frugal of the agricultural population of England, possessing
capital to the extent of from £300 to £500, it affords some opening for
the investment of it. Cultivated farms and settled population it would
be desirable to have in this county.

I do not believe 1000 acres of good land in one body could be found
amongst the ungranted lands in all this large county ; a great portion of
the surface being ponds of water, lakes, hills of granite, valley, and
spruce swamps.

COUNTY OF DIGBY

Contains about 600,000 acres, and includes within it the townships
of Digby, Clare, and a portion of the township of Clements.

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23 WEST MAIN STREET

WEBSTER, N.Y. MS80

(716)872-4503

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The lands in tliis county, fronting upon roads or navi^^able water:), liavi*
lon<; iiiiice been granted, and wliat remains in right of tiie Crown is very
similar to tlic land in the adjoining county ; but in the to\vn!thi|i of
Clare there is a large quantity of good land upon whieli no imprnvetnent
has been made, liable to escheat, and there is also some good land in
right of the Crown, but no large quantity. It affords no scope for ex-
tensive emigration ; but a few fannlics possessed of Cii|)ilal, of iiulustrious
and frugal habits might invest it firolitably.

About 400,000 acres have been granted in this county.

It contains iron ore of rich quality.

KING'S COUNTY

Contains about 7oO,000 acres ; but all the Innds fronting upon roads
and navigable waters have long since been grantid. It includes within
it the townships of llorton, Cornwallis, Ayleslbrd, and Parsboroiigh.
The two first contain some of the most valuable hmd in liie Province, and
both the townships are in a lloiirishiiig condition. The other two coti-
tain some good upland, but none of the valuable marsh fur which the
first are noted. There is some good land in the southern part of the
county, but no large body of it. It does not alfird any opening for poor
emigrants; but a few families possessed of capital, from the i...!ustrioii.s
and frugal population of England, brought up to husbandry, might be
well seltleii witliin in.

About 37r>,000 acres have been granted in this county.

YARMOUTH COUNTY

Contains about 380,000 acres. It includes within it the townsliips of
Yarnioulh, Argyle, and u portion of Pabinco, and until lately it formed a
portion of the county of Shelburne. All the good land in this county
fronting upon roads or navigable waters, have long since been granted.
A very large portion of it is barren, and almost all the good is includ..
cd in the township of Yarmouth. There is no opening for settlers in
tliis county. The iidiubitanis are generally in good circumstances, and
arc much engaged in ship building and the fisheries. They arc an in.
duslrious, frugal, and hardy people.

About i00,000 acres have been granted in this county.

SHELBURNE COUNTY

Contains about 700,000 acres, and includes the townships of Shel-
burne and Barrington. It possesses some fine harbours, but a very large
proportion of it is barren land, unlit for any kind of cidtivation, and the
settlements arc confined almost entirely to the sea shore or the heads of
harbours, but upon the margin of the streams that empty into the xVtlan-
tic, small patches of marsh arc found, upon which the inhabitants, — who
are chiefly fishermen, — feed their cattle. There is no scope for settle-
ment of any extent in this county.

About 300,000 acres have been granted in this county.

QUEEN'S COUNTY

Contains about 600,(00 acres, and includes the township of Liver-

e waters, have
Crown is very
towii»ilii|> of
» improverncnl
2 good land jti
Kco|)o for c\.
of indiislriuui

g upon roads
eludes within
Pursboroiij^h.
Province, and
ithcr two Con-
or which tlio
part of the
?ninjr for poor
he i.Jnstrious
Iry, inij;;ht be

townships of
\y it formed a
n this county
jeen granted.
)d is include
for settlers in
nslances, and
ey arc an in.

lips of Shel-
. a very large
ion, and the
• tile heads of
lo the Atlan-
lilants, — who
)e for settle-

pool. The land in this county is very similar lo that of the adjoining
county of Shelburne — a large portion of it being barren ; but in the
iiortliern part of it there is some good land, where some line settlements
have been formed within the last thirty years, but it affords no o|K>niiig
fur extensive settlements, and all the land will in a few years be Inken up
by the native population.
About 250,000 acres have been granted in tbis county.

LUNENBURG COUNTY

Contains about 700,000 acres, and includes the Townships of Lunen-
burg, New Dublin, and Chester. A largo proportion of this county i>
barren; but there is some tolerable land in tiiu neighbourhood of the
sea, and many fine islands in Mabone Bay. These, with all the land fit
fur settlement, have long been granted, and are well cultivated. The in-
habitants, genenilly, are industrious and frugal in their habits. There is
no opening in this county for extensive settlement ; all the land fit f(n
cultivation will in a few years be required fur the native population.

About 320,000 acres have been granted in this county.

COUNTY OF HALIFAX

Contains about 1 400,000 acres, and includes the Townships of llali-
lax, Preston, and Lawrence Town, and contains the Capital of the Pro-
vince. A very great portion of this county is barren and unfit for settle-
ment, and all the good land on the sea shore, or fronting upon roads or
navigable waters, have long since been granted. There is no scope for
extensive settlements in this county ; but should the proposed line of
road between the Musquids Boit Rivcr^nd the sea to the Gut of Canso
he completed, it would alford an opening fur a limited number of settlers,
but there are no considerable bodies of good lauds within it. I have
reason to believe that no tract of land exceeding 5^000 acres, fit for
settlement, could be found.

About 750,000 acres have been granted in this county.

COUNTY OF HANTS

Contains about 700,000 acres, and iucludes the townships of Windsor,
Falmouth, Newport, Rawdon, Douglas, Kempt and Maitland, the three
tirst are old settlements, and contain some of the most valuable lands in
the Province, but all the good lands fronting upon roads or navigable
waters have long been granted.

There is not scope for extensive settlement in this county, a limited
number of emigrants might be settled in it, but in a few years the native
population would require all the land in right of the Crwon tit for set-
tlement.

About 400,000 acres has been granted in the county.

A great number of vessels are employed in carrying gypsum from
various points in this county to the United States. There is an inex-
haustible supply of this article to be found in the county.

lip of Liver-

'•■ !

lis

fVit.-

58
COUNTY OF COLCIli:STI-:il

Contains about 800.000 acres, and includes the townships ol 'J riini,
Onslow, Londonderry and Economy, there is a large proportiDn ol valu.
able land in these townships, hut all the good land fronting upon roatU
or navigable water have long since been granted ; there is still however iu
right ol'the Crown some good land fit lor settlement, but no large tracts
1 have reason to believe none exceeding 1500 acres.

About 000,000 acres have been granted.

Coal is found in this county.

CUMBERLAND COUNTY

Contains about 800,000 acres, and includes the townships of Amherst,
Fort Lawrence and Wallsice ; the two first contain very valuable marsh
lands, and are well settled. It contains no very extensive tracts of good
land in right of the Crown, but a limited number of settlers could be ac-
commodated in this county.

About 500,000 acres have been granted in this county.

This county contains coal near Soggins upon the bay shore and iin-
mencc (juantities of grindstones arc annually made and supplied from this
part of the county.

COUNTY OF PICTOU

Contains about 050,000 acres, and includes the townships of Pictou,
Egerton and Maxwelton, in which is contained a large portion of good
land, and more closely settled than any other in the Province.

In the southeast portion of this county, some of the most valuablo
land in right of the Crown is to be found, where emigrants might be
settled.

About .'jOO.OOO acres have been granted in this connty ; about the east
river of Pictou, the extensive coul mines leased by the Crown are situated.

COUNTY OF SIDNEY

Contains about 350,000 acres, it includes the townships of St Andrew,
all the land fronting upon roads or navigable waters have been granted,
but in the southern part of the county there is a considerable quanty of
good land in right of the Crown, where emigrants might be settled.

About 200,000 acres have been granted in this county.

COUNTY OF GUYSBOROUGII •

^^U

Contains about 700,000 acres, and includes the townshij)S of of Guys-
borough, Manchester and Wilmot. In this county, on the northern
side of it there is some very good land in right of the Crown, upon which
settlers might be accomodated to a considerable extent, if proper roads
were made through it.

The foregoing account of the several counties and townships in this
Province is not given as a minute and exact return of the granted lands,
or of those remaining in right of the Crown in Nova Scotia. Such an
account would take a long time to perfect, but it is hoped that it may

lips ol 'Iriiri),
K)rti()M ol viilu.
iig u|)oii roads
>till however ii.
110 large trarts

ps ol' Amherst,
uluablc inar:9h
; tracts of good
s could be ac

shore iuui im-
plied from this

liips of Pictou,
ortion of cood

ICC.

most valuablo
ants might he

about the cast
I'n are situated.

of St. Andrew,
been granted,

•able (iiianty of
settled.

ips of of Guys-
tlie northern

n, upon which
proper roads

iships ill this
ranted lands,
tia. Such an
d that it may

a!)

serve the intended purpose whidi is to convey general inforniation to tlu
(iovernment, and it cannot be very far wrong, pains having been taken
to make it as correct as possible.

In cnileavoiirin<; to make it 8o, I found upon examining the (jrant
Books, thai a considerable error had occurred in making former returns.
1 found that many tracts of hind which had been svrveycd, and plans
returned to the Secretary's office in former days, had not passed into
grants ; that in some cases partial eschfals of land had been made and
not the wimie grnntx, and that an exact account of all the lands eschcal-
otl had not been kept in the Surveyor General's olHce ; and some con-
fusion arose as to grants of land tliat had been passed in New Brunswick
before it was separated from Novu Scotia in 1783. In addition to this!
found that many of the grants contained a mucii larger proportion of
land within their limits than was expressed on the face of the grant tir
plans. This will account for the discrepancy which appears between the
return now made nnil those made iiefore.

With reference to the surveys made in Nova Scotia in its early settle-
ment, it should be borne in mind that the lands were of so little value as
to prevent the parties obtaining them from incurring the expense of u
proper survey ; that there were no funds in the hands of the Surveyor
General to defray the expense of such survey, nor were there [jersons to
be found in every county of the Province competent to perform them.
Indeed, at the present day, it is not always that they can be had, and
many Deputies arc obliged to condiinu a vaiiety of occupations in
order to gel a living, as surveying alone woidd not be sufficient. A
great source of the niisrhicf occasioned by imperfect surveys being made
arises from a practice which is very general in Nova Scotia, of the own-
ers of land employing incompetent and irresponsible persons to survey
their lands, at a low rate. These persons have in many instances alter-
ed the boimds of grants, and in other cases where grants had passed with-
out an uelnal survey, lixcd bounds at the bidding of their employer, — thus
a great evil is created, and, at the same time, a large portion of the emol-
uments uhicli ought to accrue to my Deputies go to such persons.

The remedy for these evils would be — tirst, to pass a law imposing a
severe penally on any person not duly appointed who should presume to
survey the external limits of a grant; and to provide further that such
survey sliould not be received as evidence in the courts of law or equity.
Having effected this, it wonid be necessary to have a punctual Deputy in
each county, who should receive a small salary and fees fur i aeh survey,
independent of his surveying charges, and such Deputy should be made
responsible lor uil surveys made in his county. He should have a correct
County Plan, whereon should be laid down all the lots of laud surveyed
and granted, and all roads, with their alterations, and a plan of each aJot-
ment, or grant surveyed, should be sent to the Department at Halifax, as
at present, and the General Plan of the county, in the hands of the De-
puty, should, at least once a year, be compared with that in the Sinveyor
General's office at Halifax, so that any error which might have arisen
might then be corrected. At present bounds of grants are often pointed
out as the original which have been made long subsequent to the survey
upon which the grant was founded, and in very different places, an I by
persons who have not the means of acquiring the necessary inforiu tion,
even if they had been otherwise competent to perform the survey,

I think also in order to insure an efficient performance of the ities,

i '■ i

■I'i

I'" * y

'm-.

'9 r.

I 1

that the Crown Land Department at Halifax shoulil have at least two per.
sons as Draftsman and Clerk besides the principal, and that funds should
be allowed to burvey such of the old grants as the Surveyor General might
think necessary, in order to establish the proper relative position of su!i.
sequent grants and to fix permanent bounds thcvctu.

With reference to the disposal of Crown Lauds, my opinion is that in-
dividuals, upon condition of actual settlement of the land applied for,
should be allowed to obtain land to the extent of two hundred acres with-
out reference to public sale, at the upset price, and that instead of paying
the whole amount at the time of purchase, one half of the purchase money
should he paid, and the remainder within two years, by annual instal-
ments, as I find the present system of cash payments very generally com-
plained of, and in some counties no sales could be effected of the land
advertised under the present system this year.

And m order to prevent delay in cases where there is no doubt or
uncertainty respecting the lot of land applied for, that it should be given
to the applicant without referring to the Executive Council, agreecbly to
tlie Royal Instructions, of March, 1832; but as respects the sale of lots
of land not intended fur actual settlement, that they should, in all cases,
he put up for public competition, and no lot should exceed 200 acres.

In cases where lots of land are occupied and improved, either with or
without authority, I think it would be proper to allow the party living
upon the land the choice of purchase at the upset price, but he ought not
. to be suffered to remain in possession without paying a consideration,
otherwise it would be a direct encouragement to individuals to trespass
upon the Crown Lands, and would necessarily lead to much confusion and
irregularity in their settlement.

I have reason to believe, that of the ungranted lands in Nova Scotia,
comprising upwards of 4,000,000 of acres, not more than 500,000 acres
■ ould be found fit for settlement, but of the granted land liable to escheat
lor non performance of the conditions of .settlement, there is a much
larger proportion.

It is impossible for me to state, with any degree of accuracy, the
(juantity of granted land that has not been improved. That could only be
rorrcctiy ascertained by employing confidential persons in each county to
examine the grants, but I should think at least 1,000,000 of acres remain
without any thing having been done upon them by the grantees. To
examine these grants minutely would involve a very serious expense, and
the necessity of doing so might, I think, in a great measure be avoided,
by cncreasing the facilities for escheating such lands. At present the
cost and delay operates very much against parties who would otherwise
come forward to prosecute them. In the mean time the unimproved
granted lands remain a serious evil to the Province, not only that so much
land is kept, locked up as it were, from the industrious settler, but he is ob-
liged before he can have access to the Crown Lands, to make roads through
these grants, and is, besides, so much farther removed from settlements.

1 am decidedly of opinion that it would not be proper to encourage poor
settlers to come to Nova Scotia. Already there has been too great a pro.
jiortion of that class ; but to persons possessed of capital to the extent of
trom £300 to £500, who have been brought up to husbandry, from the
:i!;ricultural population of England or Scotland, of frugal habits, this
c ountry possesses many advantages. They could purchase land partially
cultivated, with suitable buildings thereon, and stock it well, and would
here enjoy many comforts, with the prospect of providing for their

' ';>!

; least I wo per-
t funds should
General mit^ltt
osition of s»!».

lion is that in-
lid applied for,
Ired acres witli-
stead of paying
turchase money
annual instai-
gencrally coni-
ted of the land

id no doubt or
ihould be given
il, agreeably to
the sale of lots
lid, in all casess,
200 acres,
either with or
le party living
Lit he ought not
1 consideration,
als to trespass
h confusion and

in Nova Scotia,

500,000 acres

iable to escheat

lere is a much

accuracy, the
at could only be

each county to
of acres remain

grantees. To
us expense, and
ire be avoided,
At present the
rould otherwise
he unimproved
dy that so much
er, but he is ob-
ie roads through
n settlements.
I encourage poor
too great a pro.
to the extent of
ndry, from the
gal habits, this
ie land partially
Acll, and would
iding for their

amilies, that in the mother country could not be obtained by llicm for n
much larger sum.

I think it proper to state further wilh reference (o tlic disposal nf
Crown Lands, that I have endeavoured to give every facility to the pur-
chaser, that I have recommended the upset price to be made so low as
not to discourage the poor sAtlcr from purchasing, and at (he same time
sufficiently high to prevent much speculating in the lands of the Crown,
but in consequence of there being so much land belonging to private
individuals for sale, it has been impossible to realize any considerable
revenue from the Crown lands, I have known in many instances good
land to be purchased from individuals for 23. an acre, and in some cases
at a lower rate, and when about two years ago in consequence ol the
Crown lands being held at a much higher rate in the other colonies, I
recommended the Lieutenant Governor to raise the price to 3s. an
acre, a general outcry was raised against it. Ft was Gtated that tho
young men must quit the Province, and the upset price was reduced t.i
the former rate of 2s. 3d. an acre.

Nova Scotia on the Atlantic side has a greater nnmltcr, and as (inc
harbours as are to be found in any pait of llie woild, intn tlie-ie harbours
fine streams connected wilh lakes, extending twenty or lliirly miles into
the interior of the Province flow, thejie were once resorted to by innu-
merable quantities of salmon and alewives, but of late yi ars the numbers
have very much diminished, owing to the improvident conduct of the
inhabitants in building their mill dams across the main streams, and
otherwise obstructing the passage of the fish in their way up to spawn ; so
that it is to be feared if proper steps are not taken to restrain them, that
this valuable fishery may be lost to Nova Scotia, and in the bays and
harbours of the coast the United States fishermen continually resort, and
very seriously annoy the inhabitants and injure the mackarcl and
herring fishing.

A great proportion of the pine and spruce which originally rovered a
large portion of Nova Scotia, has been distroyed by fires which have
swept over it, and what this element spared has, to a great exient, been cut
and carried away, so that there is comparilive but little remaining, the
hard wood beech, birch, maple and ash have not sntl'ered in the tame
way by fire.

There arc no mountains in Nova Scotia, or any very remarkable fea-
tures ; on the whole line of coast fronting the Atlantic, there is but the
high lands of Aspotagoen, situate on the Istlnnus, between St. Mar-
garets and Mahone Hay; on the northern side of ilie Province in the
counties of Annapolis and Kings, the north and south mountains as they
are called.

I'jxtcnding from the Gut of Annapolis to the IJasin of Mines, a distance
of ninety six miles, in the county of Cumberland, the Cobiquid mountain*,
Mount Tour, on the road between Tunso and Pictou ; Mount ivplis>)n
and Green Hill, in the county of Pictou, and the high lands ol Anti-
gonish, between Malignant Cove and Dorchester ; but of all these
heights, none exceed one thousand feet above the level of the .sea.

1 think it not irrevelant to slate here with reference to the communi-
cations in Nova Scotia, that the inhabitants of the various harbours
along the coast to the eastward of Halifax, for a space ol eighty miles,
have not roads of communication with the ca[)ital, and are obliged to
come bv water.

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xioeaojcxxxoo x»

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No. 4.

An account of the number of Counties and TowoUiips in the Province of
Nova Ssotia, with the area of each County in Acres, and the qiian.
tity granted in each, &c.

•I
55 f^

Townahtps.

^ J-i No. of
° ~ Acrts in
each
County.

Annapolis

Digby

King's

Yarmouth

Shelburne

Queen's

Lunenburg

Halifax
Hants

Colchester

S Annapolis
Granville
Wilmot
i of Clements
r Digby
4 Clare

(_ 4 of Clements
{ Horton
J Cornwallis
1 Aylesford
f Parsborough
(Yarmouth
^Argyle
( 4 Pubnice
i Shelburne

< Barrington,

( i of Pubnice

Liverpool
C Lunenburg

< New Dublin
f Chester

f Halifax

< Preston

L Lawrencetown
r Windsor
j Falmouth
I Newport
•< Rawdon

Douglass

Kempt

Maitland
r Turo
1 Onslow
i Londonderry
f Economy

Icarried forward,

No. of i No. of
Acres | Acres in
Granted. ! right of
IheCrowrv

900000 500000 400000

600000 400000 200000

750000 375000

24 380000' 200000

700000. 300000

6OOOO0' 250000

700000 320000

1400000

700000

800000

33 7530000

750000

400000

cooooo

4095030

375000

180000

400000
360000
380000

650000
300000

200000

3435000

. \\

C,4

•s i

., p

,±\

No. of

o -a

Countiei.

Townships, e

Acres in

Acres

Acres in

o a

each

granted.

right of

1
1

county.

the Crown

Brought ford.i

7680000

400:.000

;w.'i50()o

Amherst

1 1 Cumberland <^

Fort Lawrence 1

Ls •

800000

500000

300000

Wallace 1

Pictou *

12Pictou ^

Egerton

.3 '

f.50000

.'JOOOOO 160000

Maiwelltown

Sydney

St. Andrews |
Guysborough

1
1

350000

200000; 150000

Guysborough J

Manchester
Wilmot :^

700000

450000! 250000

43 10030000

574. WOO

4'J8MHM>

Department of Crown Lands,
1 4th September, 1838.

This Return is verv near the truth, but not an exact one.

If^

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No. 5.

Return of the Nova Scotia and Cape Breton .Militia.

Year.

Officers

Uank and File.

Total.

1828

1(563

10,934

18.597

1829

1843

19,817

21,060

1830

1785

20,007

21,852

J831

1849

21,329

23,178

1832

1905

22,125

20,040

1833

2015

22,570

24,501

1834

2330

23,258

25,588

1835

229G

22,918

25,214

183G

2492

21,555

24,047

1837

2492

21,898

24,390

). of
^cres
intcd.

No. of
Acres in
right of
the Crown

5)5000
00000

;waf)Ooo

300000

•00000 160000

1
100000; 150000

50000! 250000

45000 4*2S:.(KI0

le.

ilitia.

No. 6.

The Committee of His Majesty's Council, to whom the Regulations
which have been adopted io Upper Canada for granting lands wer«
referred,

REPORT

That they have carefully perused these regulations, ond they submit
the following considerations upon the subject to His Excellency, and His
Majesty's Council.

Ist. The situation of Upper Canada differs widely from that of Nova
Scotia. The former is an extensive colony, containing un immense body
of valuable land, remote from the sea, and agriculture must ever form
the primary pursuit of its inhabitants.

Nova Scotia is comparatively a small colony, surrounded by the sea —
abounding in harbours and inlets from the Ocean, and altliough it con-
tains a groat quantity of very valuable land, the wealthiest part of its
population is, and ever will be, commercial.

In Upper Canada, therefore, it may be expected that, as its inhabit-
ants acquire wealth, they will be disposed to invent it in the purchase of
lands, either from the Government or private iiulividuals, but in Nova
Scotia, capital may be nr.ore profitably employed in conunercc, nnd few
persons will be met with, who will be dii'posed to invci^t in the purchase
of wild lands.

In confirmation of this opinion, the committee refer His Excellency
and the Council, to the ^^ell known fuct, that the laijrc {giants which
were injudiciously made some years since, of the ino>>t v.'.luahlf latuis in
the Province, to thcdinercnl individuals who had influence withCJoveni.
ment of the day — still remain in the hands of the giaiitcci", or thrir
representatives, and althon!;h conceded lor the express purpose of
selling them, a very small portion of them have as ytt hi-cn dis|)uscd of,
and even that portion at pricLS which have not realizid tlic e.\pectation
of the grantees

'Jnd, In Upper Canada, we arc iiifornied, that reguL.r surveys have
been made of the lands in general, and that large rchnvcs have been
made for the Crown, in situations which render the re«t ivui lands valu-
able. In Nova Scotia no such system was adopted. WIk a His Majesty's
(jovcruincnt first attempted the sJltleincnt ut this I' omu c, it was con-
sidered a cold inhospitable barren country (and only i uU 'ilated for the
abode of fishermen) but few would undcitake to settle in it, uiu\ those who
did were encouraged to do so by extensive grants, in \viialc\cr situations
they decnicd most eligible. The coii>e(|uencc of which lias been, that nut
only the most valuable land in the i'rouncc has been already granted;
but what remains to the Crown, liis in remote situations, nhcre none
but the poor who were unable to purchase will submit to live.

The committee think they may sallly assert, that there has not been a
single instance lor twenty years past, in which any person possessing
capital, has planted himself in the wilderuess, and devoted that capital to
the cultivation of wild laud — during that period a vast body of the wilder-

I-

If i<

neu lia<i been reclaimed, but these imprnvements have been rhicflj
eflVclcd by ciniprnnts who were compelled by tlieir poverty to submit to
the toil ot Hubduing the l'oret«t, uiid pnrtly by the poorer pnrt of the native
population ; some of the grantees oltlic lar^c tracts have expended money
in clearing n |)nrt ol' their land, but in no cu»e have they received a return
to encourage them to proceed.

Under these circuniatanccB the committee conceive that no price could
be proeureil for the wild lands which now remain to the Crown in Nova
Scotia, sudicient to pay the expense of the nurvey of them, which must be
made prior to the valuation contemplated in the first article of the Upper
Canada regulations ; in contirniation of this opinion, the committee refer
Mis Kxcclit'iicy and His Majesty's Council to the order made by His lute
Majesty, of the 3ri\ February, 177 I, for the sale of the wilderness lands ia
Nova Scotia. At that time a large portion of the best land in the l*ro-
vincc belonged to the Crown, and convenient phintation lots were laid oflf
in the nioi^t eligible situations, and advertised for sale at public auction,
but although these lots were set up at (Id. per acre, and due notice given'
of four months, as by said order directed, there were no bidders for them.
The expense of the survey preparatory to the sale was defrayed l)y ilis
Majesty's CiDverninent, and the system of granting land.'* in the usual
manner was resumed, which your committee think would he the case if
the experiment should be again tried in the Province.

The committee have no doubt but that these regulations may he very
beneficial in such colonies as Upjicr Canada, New South Wales, and
countries where the Crown still retains a great ipinntity of valuable lands,
but they venture to suggest the propriety of continuing in this Province
the system which has been hitherto pursued, of granting lands gratuitously,
with the usual reservations, as the interest of the Crown in the wild lands
111 Nova Scotia is so much diminished, that the Government would derive
little benefit from the change.

The system which now prevails might, undoubtedly, be improved,
and the knowledge which the local Government posse.'jses, may enable
them to remedy .some inconveniences which now exist ; but an entire
change of that system might create confusion and discontent without
piodiiciiig any corresponding btnelit. The committee, therefore, report
iis their opinion, th.at the proposed regulations arc inapjilicable to the
present state of Nova Scotia, and that the very triHing pecuniary advan-
tage which might probably be gained by its aeloption would not comi)cn-
sate for the di.ssatisfaction whicli it would create among that description
of persons who arc almost exclusively the applicants for grants of land.

It is not easy for those who reside in Knrope to form a correct opinion
of the ditliculty of subduing the wilderness, and reducing it to a state of
cultivation. The wild lands, which adjoin populous settlements, may
indeed be cultivated to advantage by those who already possess farms
which yield them p subsistance, but no land so situated now belongs to the
Crown in Nova Scotia.

lie?, f

,#■;;■

IfiU

ave been chiefly
trty to Buhmit to
part of the nativo
expended money
received a return

nt no price could

frown in Novs

m, wliich must b«

icic of tiic Upper

committee refer

rnailc l)y His late

il(lcrnc89 lands in

land in llie I'ro-

lol8 were laid off

t public auction,

duo notice given'

)id(lcrs (nrllipni.

defrayed hy His

d.-i in tlio usual

i lie tlic cnse if

lis may lie very
mil Wales, and
)f valualilc lands,
ill this Province
inds gratuitously,
in the wild lands
ent would derive

y, be improved,
«sc8, may enable
; ; but an entire
scontent without
tbcrclorr, report
Plilicabie to the
Lcniiiary advan-
ulil not compen-
lliat description
raiits of land.
1 correct opinion
•i it to a state of
cttlemcnts, may
y possess farms
'W belongs to the

•r

e
o

s s
u o
a, u

£"2

■f: i) —

is-

•* it!

-a °
a IB

•^ VI _

9J "3
u en
" =

f E S

eS to

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o «o « -r ci »-

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«§ I- ""f ?? ^ CS

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— OJ ® ** ^ "^

W M w fS S

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O (M lO "— (N U1

-- ifl » to ta ■■

J5 o CS — -♦< o
jf| oj <o Tp e^ »o

JO to t>. ifl 0» ,f5

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'J

(M fi? -r >o t© t^

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OC -X 00 00 00 00

Hi'

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'1'

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Mi:.

No. 8.

SIR RUPERT GEORGE'S EVIDENCE.

Mem. relative to Lands ia the Island of Cape Breton, taken from returns

of the Commissioners of Crown Lands.
(1.) Lands granted in Cape Breton up to 31st Dec. 1837, 484482 acres.
(3.) Lands granted, sold to the same date, 34388 do.

(3.) Do. remaining ungranted at the same date, 1481130 do.

(4.) Estimated quantity of land in Cape Breton,

(5.)
(6.)

(7.)

(8.)

(9.)

(10.^

Land remaining ungranted as above mentioned,
Of which there is claimed by occupants

under Crown leases, 102262 acres.

Grants expected by individuals which
are retarded from the deficiency
of surveys, 77692 do.

2000000 do.
1481130 do.

Remaining neither granted, leased or promised,

Deducted, supposed to be held under

some claim of ticket licenses, 200000 acres.
Deduct probably mountainous, oc-
cupied by small lakes, barren, 500000 do.

179954 do.
laoTlTG do.

700000 do.

(ll.>

Quantity fit for ' altivation, supposed to be free

from any kind of claim derived from Government, GO 11 76 do.
of these 601 176 acres, great part is supposed to be in occupation of un-
authorized settlers, the number of whom it is impossible to conjecture
with any approach to correctness. The items Nos. and 10 could be
depended upon ; both may be a good deal more or less than an; there
stated. In general ternos it maybe said that one half of I lie land uf the
Island is held under some sort of authority ; and that ol the remaining,
the best lots have been settled on by unauthorized persons. The iirea of
the Island is about three million of acres, but as there is contained vvitliia
its outline a body of water, probably equal to one third of the whole of
the land, is here estimated at about two millions.

The whole of these estimates should be received only us an approxima-
tion to the truth, because there are no accurate records, Burveys, plans or
causes of inhabitants.

iken from returns

}7, 484482 acres.
34388 do.
1481130 do.

2000000 do.
1481130 do.

179954 do.
1301 1 76 do.

- 700000 do.
rec

nt. GO 11 76 do.
ccupation of un-
ble to conjecture
and 10 could be
> than an! there
af the land of the
of the remaining,
jns. Tlic area of
contained within
of the uhole of

as an npproxiaia-
burveys, plans or

Statement of the quantity of Coals raised and of the Revenue derived
from Her Majesty's Mines in the Province of Nova Scotia, in
chaldrons ; Winchester measure.

Pictou or Albion

Cape Breton

Year.

Mines.

Revenue

Currency

1820

2609 chaldrons.

1885 chaldrons.

£1108 13

1821

1400 do

8099 do

2981 2

1822

2004 do

5366 do

2472 16

1823

1400 do

5295 do

2355 1 1

1824

2261 do

7747 do

3404 10

1825

2810 do

7480 do

3385 10

1626

2910 do

8724 do

3865 13

111

1827

2573 do

8596 do

3709 10

1828

4394 do

10268 do

3333 6

1829

5381 do

11126 do

3333 (5

1830

6045 do

13000 do

3333 (i

1831

6439 do

2I39I do

3333 6

1832

12020 do

30840 do

:v.v33 (1

1833

18698 do

25108 do

3333

1834

13524 do

1861 1 do

3333 6

1835

16185 do

22938 do

3333 6

1836

1 5339 do

21497 do

5016 13

1837

15370 do

23911 do

5201 11

lit

.Mil!

No. 9.

List of the annual charges on the Queen's Casual Revenue in

Nova Scotia.

Salary of the Chief Justice

Do Secretary of the Province

Do Surveyor General . .

Do Attorney General . .

Do Surveyor General, Cape Breton

Do Superintendent of Mines . .

Do Harbour Master at Sydney

Do Clerk of the Crown

Do 1st Clerk in Secretary's Office. .

Do 2nd do do

Contingencies

Salary of Commissioners of Crown Lands in Nova Scotia

Proper
Salary of Commissioners of Crown Lands in Cape Breton

Sterling.

£850

1000

150

400

100

250

100

500

Annual charges 4250

The Casual Revenue is derived from the following sources :

Sterling.

1st— From Her Majesty's Coal Mines, which produce

annually about . . . . '. . . . £4500

2nd — From the sale of Crown Lands, producing about 700

3rd— Fees on Commissions, and other documents issuing

from the Secretary's Office 500

Annual Revenue, about

£5700

i>; .

No. 10.

Revenue in

Sterling.

£ 850

1000

150

400

100

250

100

500
500

. .4250

sources :

Sterling,
e

£4500
700

500

Census of Nova Scotia. — Slst December, 1827.

£5700

County.

Population.

No. of

No. of Fe-

No. of

No. of Total No.

Main in

main in

laboureis

female ter- of souls III

be county.i

the county,

or ninle

tants in tlie county.

Eiclusive or

UCIUUTC ol

icrTanti.

ditto.

Ubouren

rTanti.

or ierraaU.

J f Peninsula of Halifax,

55046

6466

1321

1106 14439

•i District of do

4798

4614

680

345 10437

* J District of Colchester,

3600

3597

315

185 7703

l^ District of Pictou,

6854

6391

408

296 13949

1 County of Hants,

3901

3692

619

415

8627

(3 I County of King's,

4756

4664

537

261

10208

County of Annapolis,

7152

6917

339

253

14661

County of Shelburne,

5860

5597

273

288

12018

County of Queen's

1936

1915

251

123

4225

County of Lunenburg,

4531

4288

315

1 271

9405

County of Cumberland,

2508

2415

285

148

5416

County of Sydney,

6255

5855

430

i 220

12760

County of Cape Breton,

8852

8947

583

; 318

18700

•

60615

65348

6356

4229 142.548

Comparatiye Population of Nova Scotia, by census taken in the vears

1817 and 1827.

18i:

182:

Increase.

District of Halifax,

.. 16487

24876

8389

District of Colchester,

4972

7703

2731

District of Pictou,

8737

13949

5212

County of Annapolis,

9817

1466 1

4844

County of Shelburne, . .

8440

12018

.3.578

County of King's, . .

7155

10208

3053

County of Sydney,

6991

12760

5769

County of Hants,

6685

8627

1942

County of Lunenburg, . .

• . . 6628

9405

2777

Queen's County,

3098

4225

1127

County of Cumberland,

. , 3043

5416

2373

Total. . 82053

123848

41795

Cape Breton not included.

li
H.I

IS-

) » i

m
' it ■

No. 11.

Statement of the quanties of Land in each County and District of the
Province, of Nova Scotia, exclusive of Cape Breton, that have been
granted or reserved for the support of Religion and Schools in said
Province : —

Date of
grant.

Where situated.

For what purpose.

Quantity of
Land.

1793

Halifax, County of Hali-

St. Paul's Church

]^ acre

1749

do [fax

St. Matthew's Church

Town Lots

1785

St. George's Church

1816

National School

1822

Acadian School

1813

Glebe, St. Paul's Church

580

1750

Glebe, St. Matthew's do

1832

Dartmouth

Church, &c.

1813

Preston

Glebe

544

1813 1 do

School

442

1765 iddore

Minister

500

1765 do

Glebe

500

1765 do

School

500

1813 Musquedoboit

Dean and Chapter

3500

1813

do King's College

5000

1765

Londonderry , Colchester Minister

500

1765

do School

500

1765 do Glebe

500

1769 Onslow Cliurcli, Glebe & School

1000

1815 Pictou, Counly of Pictou Presbyterian Glebe, 5)C,

300

1815 do Schools

930

1813 1 do Glebes

1100

1813

do Dean and Chapter

500

1813

do King's College

150O

1761

Falmouth, County of Minister

500

1761

do [Hants Glebe

(iOO

1761

do School

400

1761

Newport ^Minister

500

1761

do School

GOO

1813

do Glebe

400

1813

Douglas Minister

500

1813

do School

400

1761

do Glebe

GOO

1761

Hortoii, King's County Minister

500

1761

do School

600

1813

do Glebe

400

1761

Dean and Chapter

5000

7:J

1 District of the
I, that have been
d Schools ill said

ol,

1-| acre
Town

Lots

do
do
do

580

544
442
500
500
500

3500

5000
500
500
500

1000
300
930

1100
500

1500
500
000
400
500
GOO
400
500
400
COO
500
(iOO
400

5000

Dated

1 Quantity of

grant.

j Where situated.

For what purpose.

1 Land.

1701

1
1

ilorton, King's County

King's College

5000

irtJi

Corn wal lis

Minister

60O

1813

1 do

Glebe ^

600

1813

School

400

1813

;Ratchford Harbour

Minister

500

1813

School

500

1813

Glebe

500

1813

Parrsborouqh

600

1813

School

400

1813

Wilmot.county of Annes

Minister

50O

1813

Glebe

640

1763

School

403

1763

Granville

Minister

500

1763

Dissenting Minister

500

1763

School

500

1763

Annapolis

Church and Glebe

&c.

Minister

1100

1772

Dissenting Minister

500

Glebe

1000

School

500

1813

Clements

Glebe

600

1813

School

400

1797

Digby

Glebe

943

1813

School

402

1803

Weymouth

Glebe

595i

1803

School

575i

1803

Sissiboo

Minister

500

1813

Glebe

600

1813

School

600

1810

Yarmouth

Glebe

600

1810

School

520

1810

Meeting House

A Lot

1767

Harrington

Minister

500

1767

Glebe

500

1767

School

500

1806

Shelburne

Glebe

1094

1806

School

344

1784

Presbyterian Church

Town Lot.

1764

Liverpool

Minister

500

1764

School

500

1813

Lunenburg

Glebe

450

1831

School

450

1820

Church

Town Lot.

1 759

Chester

Minister
T

500

;»■

•»

ill

i' I

If t >:

Dale of|

Quitnlily of

grant.

Where situated.

For what purpose.

Land.

1759

Chester

School

GOO

1759 do

Glebe

400

I7C3 Cumberland

-Minister

r>oo

I7G3 do

Glebe

r)Oo

1763

School

.'iOO

1813

Antigonisb

Miiiistir

500

1813

Glebe

000

1813

School

400

1827

Presbyterian Glebe, S^C

200

1813

Dean and Chaplcr

3000

1813 Grevshoroiif^li.cityofdo.

Minister

500

1813 i ■ do

Glebe

GOO

1813 1 do

School

400

1813 I do [Sydney

Dean and Chapter

3500

1813 College Lake, county of King's College

.WOO

1784 Country Harbour Glebe

.'iOO

1784 , do

School

.000

i Tlie following are held

Date of under licences of occu-

licence. pation.

■
Glebe

1801 {Greysborough

1810 'Aylesford Glebe

GOO

1810 i i\o

School

GOO

Date of

The following lots are

reserve

reserved.

1813

Amherst, Co. of Cumber- Glebe

000

1813

do [land Sciiool

400

1813

Mergonish, PictouCo. Globe

COO

1813

do School

400

1813

Colchester, Bay Colches- Glebe

GOO

1813

do [ter Co. School

400

1813

Ragged Is. Shelburne do. Glebe

200

1813

Sable River do. Glebe

200

1813

Windsor^ Hants Co.

Glebe

Total of acres

500

87690^

Mi-.

lli

GOO
400

noo

500

noo

500

fiOO

400

200

3000

500

COO

400

3500

5000

500

NEW BRUNSWICK.

41
GOO

GOO

GOO
400
COO
400
GOO
400
200
200
500

The Honorable Thomas Baillie.

You are Surveyor General and Commissioner of Crown Lands in tliii
Province ; how long have you held those offices ?

I was appointed Surveyor General and Commissioner of Crown lands
in February, 1824, and retained both offices till the latter end of 1825,
when Mr. Hurd was appointed Surveyor General — which he retained
till November, 1829, when he was sent to Upper Canada as Surveyor
General, the office of Surveyor General then devolved upon me, by which
a considerable saving was effected, I have retained both offices from that
period until the present time, the two offices are so blended, it is im-
possible to separate them.

Then you have filled the office of the Crown Land Dcpf.itment from
the time it was instituted ?

Yes.

AVill you state the extent of New Brunswick, and how it is divided at
respects lund alienated by, and remaining in possession of the Crown ?

The Province contains about 1G,.'')00,000 acres, of which I consider
about 560,000 to be barren, about 3,000,000 acres were granted previous
to the sale system in 1827, and about 1,400,000 acres have been sold since
1827. There are at present in round numbers 1 1 ,000,000 acres of land
available to Government, but from the nature of the soil, where the dense
pine forests exist, not much more than half of it can be said to be fit
for agricultural purposes at the present moment, but the remainder
would doubtless be available at a more remote period, when land shall be
more scarce.

You have stated there have been at different periods about 4,400,000
acres granted ; what portion of that do you suppose is held by occupants ?

Almost half.

How many acres do you consider are actually under cultivation ?

About 250,000 acres ; but the clearings being generally on the margins
of streams, and on the by roads which have never been surveyed, render
it difficult to form a correct estimate.

Does this remark refer to land that has been under crops ?

Principally under crops.

Besides this land, do farmers think it necessary to have pasture land ?

Yes, they generally wish to have as much pasture land as tliey have
tillable land. Much of the pasture land cannot be said to be cleared,
because the stumps still remain on it.

Can you form an estimate of the number of agricultural settlers or
proprietors residing on farms ?

From 12,000 to 16,000.

You have stated that you supposed 2,150,000 acres of land are now in
occupancy ; this would be averaging 150 acres to each farm ; in your
opinion is this a proper quantity of land for farmers to have ?

N. Bkuns. a

Ample for a poor man.
Is it too much for a poor man ?

Looking up to his family, and also a reserve for fuel, 1 do not think it
too extensive.

At the same rate there still remains in the hands of the Crown ?

Land in this Province suitahle for agriculture, for 72,000 agricultural
establishments. 1 should say 40,000 immediately, and the remainder for
future occupation.

Is this Province divided into districts ?

It was divided into districts by myself when I received instructions
proceed with the sale of lands in 1827.

Mow is it described in legislative enactments ?

In counties.

How many counties are there ?

The Province is divided into twelve counties, the division lines
which however, with two or three exceptions, have not been surveyed or
carried out.

Can you furnish a statement of the extent of the different counties
with the improvements made in them, and the land remaining available in
each, also the general character and agricultural or other recommenda.
tions they may possess (see Appendix No. 1.)

When did the Crown Land OtHcc come into operation as to the disposal
of land by sale?

In 1827.

What has been the method pursued at different times prior to that
period, to dispose of and to bring into course of settlement the wild lands
of the Province, the property of the Crown ?

From the erection of the Province in 1784 to 1827 the land was disposed
of by the Lieutenant Governor and Council, upon a quit rent of 2s. per
100 acres, together with the grant fees under the Royal Instructions, no
charge of any consequence having been made during that period.

What grants were made prior to 1784?

Several large grants were made when the Province formed part of Nova
Scotia, most of which were escheated and subsequently regranted.

Are there any large grants of land still existing in the Province ?

None of an extent to be prejudicial to the country.

What is the largest grant now existing in one name ?

Five thousand acres were granted to the Honourable J. Saunders in
1819.

Is this tract in the course of improvement ?

A very partial improvement, and the settlers in the vicinity complain
bitterly of having to pass through a long wilderness, through which they
have to break the lower roads in winter time.

Are there any other grants of a similar character in the country ?

No ; but the settlers consider it grievous if even a lot to the extent of
.500 acres remain in a wilderness state on the road to the settlements. The
proprietor of which performs no road work, and the labour of the settlers
is therefore enhancing the value of the absentees lands.

How many lots of land of this description do you consider there are in
this country ?

Between two hundred and three hundred. There are few of the back
settlers but what have it in their power to complain of the same evil, and

1 do not think it

Crown ?
DOO agricultural
he remainder for

instructions to

livision lines of
jeen surveyed or

iifferent counties
ning available in
ler recorninenda.

18 to the disposal

s prior to that
lit the wild lands

and was disposed
t rent of 2s. per
Instructions, no
period.

ed part of Nova
ranted,
rovince ?

J. Saunders in

cinity complain
ugh which they

country ?
o the extent of
ttlements. The
r of the settlers

kr there are in

few of the back
same evil, and

I think tlie proprietor of lands through which a road passes ought to be
obliged to |)erform a share of the road work.

Are these grants generally held on condition of settlement ?

Most of them ; but as the proprietor may have extensive improvcnifnts
on other tracts, he may with some truth declare he has done his share
towards the improvement of the country.

This remark, I presume, applies to proprietors resident in the country,
and who have made improvements ?

Certainly.

Do you consider there are absent proprietors who hold land only with
reference to future advantages from increase of price ?

There are some, but the number is inconsiderable.

Has there been any land escheated at difierent periods, and to what
extent?

Several tracts have been escheated, to the extent of several thousand
acres. Many of those cases, as I stated before, are Nova Scotia grants.

Have there been any recent escheats '!

A few.

HokV much land do you suppose there is now in this Province liable to
escheat ?

Probably about .'iOO.OOO acres 1 was preparing a list of lands liable lu
escheat, but the Lieutenant Governor was apprehensive that it might
create strong excitement, and I therefore desisted.

Was that in reference to the present enquiry ?

No ; it was previous to the present enquiry. I ought to observe then-
were several escheats of land made for non payment of quit rents, when
directed to be collected in 1832. These lands have since been restored
by Act of the Legislature.

What steps have they taken since 1827 to carry into effect the disposal
of Crown Lands by sale .''

Lord Balhurst's letter of the 1st March, 1827, was the cause of the
sale of lands in this Province, and I immediately proceeded to carry into
eftect the instructions I received. — (For this letter sec Appendix No. S.)
I stated to the Lieutenant Governor that I was prepared to go on with
the sales, and I also gave notice in the Royal Gazette.

What were the terms and conditions of sale contained in your instruc-
tions ?

Either on payment of purchases or a quit rent. The lands were gener-
ally sold by auction.

Was there an upset price ?

The usual upset price was 2s. 6d. an acre, including the grant fees.

Has there been much variation in prices of wild land sold under these
regulations ?

Not much under that regulation, but a very great variation under the
regulation of 1832.

What have been the prices and quantities sold under the above regula-
tions ?

They are contained in the returns (see Returns) Appendix No. 3.

Have the lands so disposed of been to bona fide settlers, and in what
sized blocks generally ?

Generally to settlers in blocks of 200 acres each, but many of the
settlers never paid the purchase money or quit rents.

Have they forfeited their rights to the lands ?

■ »

^*i

[t>

Ill in

ir ^ I

i|-!

M^t ft

Certainly, tliough I bilicve many of them are »till living on IuikN llicy
bid ollat those sales in IH'27 and 1N28.

Do you consider this system tailed in producing the benefits expected
from it .'

There was a violent opposition to it, in consequence of reference to
the quit rents being made on the old grants in those instructions, which
inducerl the opposition of the most wealthy and influential persons to
the whole system, and a notice issued from the Secretary's ollico, the 8th
Afarcli, lSli8, allowing persons who had obtained Minuti's of Council
for certain lands which were forfeited agreeably to the Royal instructions
to pay the fjrant fee on the same, previous to the Ist January, 1829, by
which means JOO.OOl) acres was thrown into the market, though the
persons who had obtained the Minutes of Council, and who having nothing
to pay for the lands, except the grant fees, could under.scll the Crown.
This of course crippled my exertions, and the Lieutenant Governor, on
the 10th January, 1829. suspended all further sales, until further orders,
as will appear by papers marked

The above applies only to land sold ; what was done in reference to
land held on quit rent .'

Persons were permitted to take land on a quit rent, if they preferred
doing so, it was fixed at 5 percent on the amount of the purchase money,
or to be bought at any time at '20 years purchase.

Was there much land taken on these terms.

A good deal, several thousand acres.

Were the terms conformed to ?

Scarcely in a single instance.

Do the parties still occupy these lands ?

I am of opinion that many of them still occupy the lands.

Have any steps been taken to enforce the payment of the quit rents ?

None, as the lands are considered ibrfeitcd.

To what do you attribute the non-compliance of the pilrties to the last
arrangement ?

To the communications made by anonymous publications in the public
prints, as well as to reports industriously circulated, that the sale system
would be entirely abandoned, and an address was presented by the Legis-
lature to the Lieutenant Governor, to be forwarded to the King in 1829,
praying that the old system might be re-established, and asserted that any
attempt to collect a revenue in the Province, from the sale of lands would
be in vain.

What were the steps next taken to induce settlers on Crown lands ?

Heads of instructions were transmitted to me in 1829 (see Appendix)
when 1 again resumed the sale of Crown lands.

What was the nature of the first instructions ?

Modifying in some degree the former instructions. The sale of Crown
lands now continued rapidly to mcrease, until January, 1S27, so that in
the eight years, from the Ist January, 1830, to the end of December,
1837, no less a sum than £134,292 had been received, and £107,704
12s. 7d. remained due upon the sale of 1,339000, acres.

What amount of the £107,705 12s. 7d. has since been paid up ?

Only £4 4.000 is now due, of which amount about £9,000 remains
due on the instalments of tracts under 500 acres each, the remaining
£35,000 being instalments due on large tracts, which were purchased
principally for speculation, during the excitment which pervaded the

If-:

' i^

i ■?

ving on land* tlicf

( benefits expected

lice of reference to
nstructions, wliicli
uential persons to
^ry'solKcc, llie8tl>
linutes of Council
Royal instruction!
January, 1829, by
larUct, though the
ftdio having nothing
ler.sell the Crown,
lant Governor, on
ntil further orders,

ne in reference to

if they preferred
le purchase money.

inds.

f the quit rents ?

parties to the last

lions in the public
lat the sale system
nted by the Legis-
Ihe King in 1829,
1 asserted that any
ale of lands would

Crown lands ?
19 (see Appendix)

The sale of Crown

18'*27, so that in

nd of December,

cd, and £107,764

been paid up ?

£9,000 remains
h, the remaining

were purchased
ich pervaded the

American land market in 1835 — thia list will shew the operations of the
system with the progressive improvement of it (sec Appendix No. 4.

Did many of the parties who purchased under this t^ystcnl become
actual settlers ?

Certainly most of them.

To what do you principally attribute the improvement that took place
in that system P

To the favorable operations of the Royal Instructions of 18M2, by whitli
an emigrant could proceed to Fredericton within ten days, or a fortnight
after his arrival in the country, and ascertain what was open lur sak',
proceed to view hia selection, and return and pay the [lurcliase money,
and obtain his location ticket for the lot selected.

What were the usual terms of payment required in this instance .'

The land varied in value according to situation, to pay one-!uuitli
down, and one-fourth every year till paid.

Exclusive of purchase money, what was the whole charge of surviy, or
other expense of location .'

Al! charges were included in the purchase money.

How was the value of the lot applied for ascertained ?

I'rinci|)ally by intimate acquaintance with the lands of the country, as
well as by reference to the survey.

Were timber lands sometimes included in the purchase ?

If there were, an extra price was invariably put on the land.

What was the cause of departing from this system of disiiioaing of lands:'

The surrender of the casual revenue to the Legislature, and the two
Acts passed in consequence.

How arc wild lands at present disposed of ?

By the Lieutenant Governor in Council, under provision of the two
Acts referred to.

Can you give the outlines of this system ?

Persons applying for lands have to present a petition at my oflice, pray-
ing to be allowed to purchase the tract that is described in lii.s petition.
I put a certificateas to the vacancy of the land, as also whether it contains
any mill site, meadow, intervale or pine timber ; at the end of the month
these petitions are all transmitted to a committee of the Executive Coun-
cil, with a schedule containing an abstract of all thc>e iJctitions-', the
prawr of which petition is either recommended or not, according to the
views of the committee, and laid before full Council the following day for
approval. The petition and schedule arc returned to my ollice, with tJie
answers and advertisements are prepared, stating all these particulars,
which are published in the Royal Gazette.

How is the price of land now defined ?

Generally put up at 2s. Gd. per acre, and the money paid down ; the
minimum price is 2s. (id. the land has a value attached to it by the
Executive Council.

When did this last system come into operation ?

2nd August, 1837.

How many acres have been disposed of since that period to the present
time.

903 original petitions have been presented, of which 534 have passed
and of which 21.'j petitioners have complied with the Orders of Council,
producint; i;"2,'297 15s. i Id. up to Jth September, 1838.

N. Bio-Ns. b

What clasi of petitioners havo been uimbleto comply vrilh tlic Order
of Council f

Actual Nettlcrs of a poor dcsiorlplinn, and snualtcra.

To what do you nttribntc the fulling ufT of actual Betllcrs Nincc the
ado|)tion of the prcHctit ByBlciii P

To the delay of oblnining niinwcrs to their petitions. The ncccsiity of
repairing several ciincs to Fredcrictoii to explain the buiincis. Th(
uncertainty of ever receiving- on answer to the petition, by reason of the
remoteness of the residence of tiic applicants, and the limited circulation
of (liu Koyal Guzclte, and (he demand more generally nmdeby the Council
for the whole amount to be paid down within fourteen days, in the event
of the land being sold by ouction, and within 60 days, if by private sale.

Is there any additional expense by survey or otherwise incurred by
thi.s new if gnlation I

Yes, many of the parlies applying for lands which have never been
surveyed, and the expense of surveying an isolated lot, frequently makes
tlie price of the land equal to £4 or £0 per acre, besides tending to
create interminable confusion in making surveys.

What time would be required under the present regulations, by 11
settler (0 get possession of land from his arrival at nny port in the
country ?

After liis arrival in Fredcrictoii, having previously selected his luiid,
lie would have to present his petition at my oflico, which must be in
before the 24lh of the month, and he could gel an answer to that petition
the (!th or 7th of the following month.

In respect to Crown lands and forests, has there been any dilVi.reiic('
in the mode of disposing and selling them from what bos been described !

Nothing in regard to agricultural settlers ; but large tracts have been
disposed to difl'ercnt parties for the purpose of enabling them to erect
extensive saw mills, and manufacture into lumber the several varieties of
timber fit for the different markets.

Arc there nny large tracts disposed of in this way ?

The principal tract sold for that purpose was 50,000 acres on the river
Tobiquc, at a price of lOs. per acre. A company has since been chart-
ered by the Legislature, which is now in the act of erecting very extensive
mills on that river, and they are expected to be in operation this fall.
The next tract in extent or importance is 3!i,000 acres, embracing the
heads of the Musquash streams which full into the Bay of Fiindy, about
fifteen miles to the westward of St. John. Here there arc cxtrnsivc niid
valuable mills at work. The next is 2-1,000 acres to the Nashwank Mill
Company. The Nashwank falls into the river Saint John at Fredericton.
The mills being situate about three miles from the mouth of the river.

Arc there any more large tracts of timber land disposed of.'

No more large tracts of land have been disposed of for the express
purpose of supplying timber, but several large tracts have been disjiosed
of from whicli the parties intend to manufacture square timber, and these
parties who have paid up the whole amount, have done work to some
extent.

Have these transactions been of recent date?

Thoy principally took place in 1835.

What wore the terms of the grants ?

No conditions of settlement, but siujply the purrlmsc. Toq.Care not
generolly in situations where sclllemcnis would grow up.

Willi the Order

sUlcrs (tiiico tlio

The ncccsiily of
buihicts. Till
by reason of tlie
litcd circtilatiuii
Ic by the Council
y», in the u vent
by private sale,
rise incurred by

avc never been
requentiy mukcs
dcs teiuliii^ to

guiations, by ii
ly port in the

leclcd his lund,

lirh must l)c in

to that petition

I any ditViriMici'
been described .'
Iracts iiave bc-Lii
g them to erect
rcral varieties of

res on tlie river
incc been chart-
g very extensive
:ration tliiii fall,
embracing the
f Fiindy, about
:; extensive niid
Na-ihwunk Mill

at Frcdericlon.

of the river,
■d of.'

or the express
J been disposed
Tiber, and these

work to some

Toi|.Care not

After tlio timber !■ cleared from thcio landii, what will be tlicir rapa.
bililiesfor of^ricultural purpoiiei?

They will be well adapted for nRriculturc. A Hmnll iprinklin^ of pinu
grnwin^ on liind it no indication of barren land.

What prices do audi land Kcncrelly realize ?

The lands haw been lold fur C)» to lt)!«. yycr ncrc, in large tract*
Avberc of noccHsily there would be a great variety of (pialily.

Have there been many lota of the abovt* land over 2,()(K) acrev di«>
poaed ofp

Probably about twelve or fourteen.

Can yon furnikli a liitt of the nature and pricca of lltoic {{raiiti ?

See list No. f).

Whnt (pianlily of land of ihia deacriplion rcntuins in posscsision of anil
ul !!)•' disposal of the Crown i

About (ive millions.

lias lliere recently been a grant of «omo extent mode to the New
Urunawick and Nova Scotiu Laud Company ?

Yea. Upwards of .')00,()t)0 acrea wa« sold to them by Ibo llonn-
Government when I was in England in 1h32, and the arrangements cont-
pUled in 1h:]4.

Can you give an outline of the terms und conditions of this sale ?

The terms wen' lis. M. Sterlin;; per acre, to be paid in ei<;lit aenii-
nnnunl instalments. A snbsrtpienl grant hot« ;iiis»cil to include the right
to all niincH and niineralHin the coinpaDy's tract.

Were there any conditions uf settlement i'

There wore no conditions exacted.

What is the position of this tract of land, nnd has the company made
any progress in improving it i'

The position is extremely favourable, being in the heart of the Pro-
vince, with the river Nushwunk llowing throngh it, ns also the south
west branch of the Miramichi intersecting apart of it. The coinpai^y
iiave expended u large sum of money in calling a road from the Royal
Road to the town of Stanley, which they have rslablished on the river
Nashwank. About 20 ndles from its conlluencc with the river Saint
Jobi!, there arc also valuable mills erected and other improvements.

Is the soil considered favourable for agricullntc ]

The soil varies in quantity on so large a tract of land, but large parts
of it ore exceedingly good.

Arc there mines or minerals worked in the country P

An extensive lease of mines and minerals in the county of Gloucester
was made about a year ago, nnd miners have since arrived from England
for the purpose of working the copper in that county, which has been
tbund to be of the fir»it quality. Another lease was inade some years
ago, to a company, for the purpose of woiking the coal mines on the
Grand Luke, and they are now in (he act of digging to ascertain what
strata can be discovered. Another lease w&h made of coal in the parish
of St Martin, in the county of St. Jidm, and anolbcr lease was made of
mines in the parishes of Woodstock nnd Wakelield, in the county of
Carleton.

Are these all the mines and minerals at present known to exist in the
Province ?

By no means, coal is to be found in many other districts, of an excel-
lent quality, and ether minerals are also known to exist os will appear by

this report (sec Appendix No. 6.) Other applications have been made
for mines and minerals, but 1 dent think the leases have yet issue<l.

Are all the above disposed of on the same conditions f

Yes, I believe they are with only one exception.

Can you state what the conditions are ?

Leases for a term of 50 years. The mines are to be worked within a
period of 5 years, and to be forfeited if discontinued working for a period
of 12 months, one-twentieth of the produce, after a fixed number of
years, varying" from li to r>, to be the property of Government.

Have any of the mines conmienced to make a return ?

Nut yet, in consequence of the term granted before payment, whicii
was made in consideration of the great outlay that must in all cases be
required.

Arc any of those mines in operation at present ?

Only those in Gloucester, and at the head of the Grand Lake.

Wliiit du you consider to be the extent of a mine ?

The radius of a mile from the centre.

Is there any clause in those cases to prevent other mines bcins^ workcil
in the neighbourhood?

Only such parts can be restricted as arc described in the icahc, and
that only for a period named.

Are favourable expectations entertained of success from tiie above
undertakings \

Very much so in regard to the mines in Gloucester, as I have unilcr-
stood. The original lessee, J.ir. Stephens, who proceeded to Kni^laiul,
for the purpose of geting an accession of ca[)ital, was to receive u
bonus of X'2000 a year, for ten years, together willi a salary of £.500 a
year, as snperintendant of the works. I have undersluud that the
copper is found particularly applicable to the use of plated goods.

Does the Crown at present receive any revenue from timber {

A very large revenue; the statement here will shew the annual
receipts, from 1825 to the present period (see Appendix.)

How are the rangers or deputies paid I

Tliey were formerly paid by fees from the lumber men, varying from
XT) to £30, according to the extent of the berth, but in ISiJO, ! did,
iiiuier sanction of the then Lieutenant Governor, coiumute ll!o>c feus,
by exacting 3d. per ton on tind)er, and (id. per AJ. foot on logs for lum-
ber ; and frouj that period have had the payment of my depiuies in my
own hands, re(|uiring tliem to transmit to me, peiiodieally, an attested
account of their services, whicli accounts are regularly laid before the
Lieutenant Governor and Council.

Is the above revenue entirely the proceeds of licenses granted to cut
timber ?

Yes, exclusively.

When did this system of licenses commence ?

About 1820 or 1821, at wiiicli time the Lienlcnant Governor in Coun-
cil (who for some lime granted licenses on bonds, ul Is. per ton, wliich
bonds were never enforced.) 'J'lie Lieutenunt Governor also addressed
the Secretary olSlale, recommending tlial. some oflieer should be direef-
ed to protect ilie Crown lands, in coiis('(|iience of \\hitli, 1 w<is a|)|ioinled
(7ominissioiier of Crown Lands and Forcbts, in 1821.

What was the system pursued |)re\inus to thai time ?

Licenses were granted by the deputies of Sir J. Wcntworth, who was

Imve been made
s yet issued.

worked within a
rkiiig for a period
ixcd number of
nment.

payment, wbicfi
it in all cases be

nd Lake.

lies bc'ui'r worked

in tlie lease, and

from liie above

as I have uiulcr-
cded to Knjj;laiid,
I as to receive a
salary of £.500 ii
■rstood that the
ited goods.
timber {
liew the annual

;n, varying- from
in ISlJO. I did,
imiite (lio-.c feus,
on logs for Inm-
1^ dc|)iiiies in niy
illy, an attested
^ laid before the

i^ranled to cut

)vcrnor in Coun-
pcr ton, which
r a'su addressed
lioidd he direet-
1 was apiioiiiled

vorth, who was

Surveyor General ofWoods, but no revenue was derived for the benefit
of (he Crown.

What number of Licenses have been taken out since, and what num>
ber of tons of timber have been cut annually ?

Since 1824. (Sec Appendix No. 7.)

(n what manner arc licenses applied for and obtained ?

From 1823 to 1835, licenses only for a period of one year, or to the
1st May succeeding the period of application were granted by petition
to the Lieutenant Governor, which petition was presented at my office,
priority of claim of course taking precedence. No objection existing,
a license was prepared and signed by me, reserving the same for t!ic
Lieutenant Governor's approval and signature ; the license was then
entered in the Secretary's Office, as a check, and transmitted by inc to
the several deputies, to allow the ground to the parties.

What was the price of obtaining a license, and for making the allot-
ment ?

In 1824 the price of white pine was Is, 2d. per ton ;red pine Is. 4d. to
Government, together with fees, varying from £5 to 30s. accordini^ to the
extent of the license. In 1825, I raised the price ofredpineto Is. (id- as it
bore that proportion in the market, a further rise took place in 183'?, to
Is. 6d. for white pine, and 2s. for red. In 183.'j, the prices were, white
pine 2s., red 23. (id., birch Is. Od. Lumber per M. square supcrticial
feet, 3s. 6d., and these prices continue now.

What has been the course pursued since 1835, to which the forej^oiiig
statement refers.

In 1835, licenses for five years were issued, with a view to induce the
party to husband the timber standing on the ground, as under the one
year system the party cared only to select the largest and best timber,
having of course little regard to what remained, as his interest would
then expire.

Does this arrangement still continue ?

The licenses are still in effect, but no fresh ones have been passed since
the Civil List Bill.

How are licenses obtained at present?

The licences are now granted annually only, and the prices are as
established by me in 1835, and established by law in 1837.

Is the system of one year licenses thought to suit better than licensee.
for a longer period ?

No ; I think not ; but in some cases where the timber is not so abun.
dant, no great evil arises from them, though it costs more to keep a
vigilant supervision of their transactions.

Was it considered that five years licenses gave a monopoly to parties '/

It was complained of, but without cause, as (he licensee was obliged
by bond, to pay the Crown for a certain quantity per annum, according
to the extent, as also, to render annually his attested ur count of the pre-
vious year's transactions.

Are there any other sources of Crown revenue thun already men-
tioned ?

None ; except the proceeds of (he sales of limber cut without license,
which sometimes pays double duty, and that which is condemned in the
Court of Vice-Admiralty, or in any other Court of Law.

This amount is in(!luded in the account you have given in of Crown
Revenues J
N. Bruns. c

i I ' .

■*.

Yes, 80 far as regards tlie double duty, but not the other amounts, as
that did not come into my hands. It is however very (rilling.

Do these proceeds novr pass through your office ?

No ; the transactions are arrangra, and entered in my oPlcc, but (he
proceeds are paid to the Receiver General.

Do the practices you have stated above, in regard to licenses, still
exist ?

No. In 1887 an act to provide for the civil government of the Pro.
vince, as also an act to restrain tlic fiAh clause of that act was passed by
the Legislature, which gives them nearly (he unlimited controul and net
proceeds of the Grown Lands, mines, timber. Royalties, &c. for which
they under(ake (o pay the sum of £14,500 Currency per annum to Go-
vernment. All matters tlicrefore, since (he above period, arc determined
in Committee of Executive Council, (he abstract of all timber petitions
being prepared by me in the same way as (hose for land.

Are you aware if alterations have been made that difl'er from the regu-
lations respecting licenses to cut timber, exisdng previous to this act '!

Yes, (he alteradons are very extensive, and in my opinion, exceedingly
prejudicial, as will appear by this Iet(er, addressed on this subject to the
Lieutenant Governor, dated April 30(h last. — (See Appendix No. 8.)

In what particular do they difl'er from those previously existing?

Great and unnecessary delay now occurs in petitioners rcceiviniir
answers to (heir petitions. Previously (he answer was given on (he
insfant of presenting (he pcdtion, and on payment of tonnage money the
license Avas issued, thus making but o7ie transaction. At present it is
impossible for the party to get an answer under three weeks or a
month.

Is there any other objection existing, in your opinion, to the present
system ?

Yes. By (he act to restrain (he nf(h clause of the civil list act, parties
obtaining license to cut timber are Jlowed to cut any excess over the
quantity stated, provided they make application at the Crown Land
office before the Ut May, and as many of the lumbermen would be
disposed to take advantage of the faci)i(ie8 thus given to cut a large
quantity of timber when they have only paid for a small proportion of it,
it would doubtless have the effect of greatly reducing the receipt of (he
Crown revenues on these transactions.

How is (his (he operation of the system you allude (o ?

I consider it quite necessary that a vigilant supervision should be
constantly kept over the transactions of lumbern:en in the woods, by
visits from the deputies, in order to oblige them to apply and pay for
any excesses, which tliey may find manufactured over and above the
licenses; and this act allows them till the 1st of May, before any pro-
ceedings can be taken against them, consequently the quantity cut
cannot be ascertained, because (he 8(reams are opened, and the timber
in most cases floating down the rivers.

Would this evil be the same if ano(her month than May was fixed as
the termination of the license ?

I think not endrely. I would not attend to any application for
licenses after the 24th of February, because by that time the parties
know pretty nearly (he quantity they will be able (o make before the
season breaks up, and then the ranger can, during (he month of March,
!sce what has been done previous to (he breaking up of (he sdeauis in
April, and report accordingly.

:her amounts, as
ling.

y oflce, but the

io licenses, stilt

icnt of the Pro*
:t was passed by
sontroul and net
9, &c. for vvhicli
if annum to Go-
, arc determined
timber petitionii

jr from the regu-
is to this act '!
lion, exceedingly
lis subject to the
;ndix No. 8.)
ly existing?
ioners receiving
is given on the
nage money the
At present it is
•ee weeks or a

1, to the present

il list act, parties
excess over the
le Crown Land
!rmen would be
to cut a large
proportion of it,
receipt of the

ision should be
the woods, by

ply and pay for
and above the
before any pro-

le quantity cut

and the timber

ay was fixed as

applicatiou for
imc the parties
make before the
[lontli of March,
the streams in

Has any plan ever been recommended to obviate the above ?

Yes, several, tliat have been recommended by me, will be seen in the
documeot (B.) already given in.

Do ilie fees for obtaining these lioenses still continue?

No ; all expcnce is included in the price of the timber.

By what method do you ascertain the quantity of timber that has been
cut under licenses and liable to duty ?

The officer can estimate it pretty well by counting the sticks, and
measuring the contents of a few of them.

How is the money collected ?

The party paying applies to my office for a cextidcate of the amount
dae by him on his several applications. He leaves this certificate with
the Receiver Genemi, and pays in the sum.

What is (he expense of this mode of assessment and collection ?

Deputies are paid 20s. per day during tlie time they arc employed in
the woods, out of the gross receipts.

Is the lumber at any expense beyond the duty ?

None whatever.

From the return of duties given in by you it shows a rise of 9d. per
ton from 1830 to 1835, and the same duly now exists, is this a fair duty
suitable to the market at present?

I think, considering the slate of the home market, it is a fair price,
aithougli private individuals frequently obtain much more.

On an average what quantity of timber do you consider an acre of land
produces ?

It is impossible to give an opinion. I have known upwards of forty
tons cut from one acre.

Ts there any difficully or delay in the present system, in settlers and
persons applying for licenses, obtaining such grants and licenses on their
agreeing to the terms required i

Yes, the inefficiency of the office establishment causes an arrear of
upwards of one year's grants, being more than two hundred in number,
which naturally produces many complaints, and is certainly a just cause
uf grievance. Licenses must be kept up to prex'cnt confusion, which
otherwise of necessity arises.

Will you furnish me with a list of the present establishment in your
office ?

Yes, here is a list (Appendix No. 9) of the present establishment, as
also of the one recommended by a committee of the Executive
Cunncil.

With good and proper arrangements, in wlmt time would a settler be
in possession of his grunt ?

His grant ought certainly to issue in six weeks after the money is
paid.

You have stated, in previous evidence, that the estuiilishmcnt recom.
mended by the Committee of Council is insufficient to '.'.c work, what
do you consider would be a proper establishment for the duties re-
quiretl?

I think two additional draftsmen, and one copying clerk, together
with two compilers, already approved by the Lieutonant Governor,
indispcnsible to carry on llie duties of the office with satisfaction to the
[jublic. This addition would call for an increase of probably £500
a- year.

■i,is;

iM;'-

: #

Is this increase proposed as a temporary measure ?
No, as the prosperity of the country advances, so it is natural to sup.
pose that the business will continue to increase as it has done, which is
now double what it was when the the establishment was granted.
When was the present establishment of the office fixed ?
In 1830, .when a commutation of my fees took place.
Have any lands been granted in this Province for promoting religion
and education (Appendixes Nos. 10 and 11 ?)
Yes, here is a list of them.

Have you any observations to make on the state of surveys as now
carried on in the Province P

All extensive surveys are for the present suspended. I was carrying on
a general survey of the Province when the Act of last year took ail |X)wer
out of my hands. No survey of the Province has ever been made, and
the surveys of the old grants are extremely erroneous, and expose errors
and collisions which could not have been supposed to exist.

Does it ever occur that different grants are made out for the same lot
of land ?

It frequently has occurred, and might continue until a thorough coin-

pilation is made of all surveys, which I am now authorix.ed to commence,

as will be seen by the accompanying letter (C.) (See Appendix No. 12.)

Is there any difficulty in procuring competent persons to act as Deputy

Surveyors ?

I have several very good ones, but they complain of the want of em-
ployment, in consequence of the regular surveys having ceased.

Are there any surveys made except by authorized surveyors of land ,
which have already been granted ?
There are.

Are such surveys recognized in Courts of Law ?
Yes, there is no law to prevent any one surveying.
Does this system tend to depreciate the value of property in the
country ?

I think it pernicious, and that it will some day be very injurious.
When a settler applies for a plot of wild land which he points out in the
country, how is its position ascertained, and placed on the map, to secure
the settler in bis grant i

The usual practice is to measure from the nearest bounds of some sur.
vey or granted land.

Can this be relied on as giving a settler a grant of land that cannot bo
distributed ?

Not without great care and a greater expense than a poor settler can
afford, the deficiency is pointed out in the letter (B.) Appendix No, 8.

ROADS.

What method is followed in the formation of the roads in the country ?
All these matters have emanated from the Legislature, except in four
cases, the most important one being the Royal Road, from Ficderickton
to the Grand Falls, on the east of the River St. John, and the road from
Fredericton to Peticondioc.

How are funds raised, and is tlieir any statute labour in the Province ?

The funds for the first mentioned road came out of the casual revenue,
that of the last was paid out of the proceeds of the commutation of quit

\ i

is natural to eup.
tas (June, which is
IS granted.

Ell?

tromoting religion

if surveys as now

I was carrying on
'ear took all |w\ver
sr been ma«.le, and
and expose errors
xist.
it lor the same lot

a thorough com,
ized to commence,
Appendix No. I 'J.)
I to act as Deputy

f the want of cm-
g ceased,
urveyors of land,

f property in the

ry injurious.

le points out in the

the map, to secure

unds of some sur-

nd that cannot bo

1 poor settler can
ppendix No. 8.

is in the country ?
re, except in four
from Ficdericklon
and the road from

in the Province ?
he casual revenue,
nmutation of quit

rents. The statute labour varies from thenty days work to tlnvc (la\-,
according to the estate.

What does a small farmer pay ?

From four days upwards.

Upon whcit scale is the labour regulated ?

On the value of the |)roperty.

Do you consider this system is one that works advautagcously to tin-
Province ■;"

No. 1 think the labour for the most part thrown away, half liic amount
of money judiciously laid out would bo |)rcfcral)lc.

Are there annual grants made by the Legislature for this samu [luriMKso '.

Very extensive grants of public money are mado, and tiic great roa(l>
tluoughout the Province have been of late years very much improved ;
the by-road system is, I think very bad, as the iiumey is Iritterod away l)\
small grants for portions of roads. (See Appendix No. \'.i )

Arc those funds managed by commissioners ?

Yes, commissioners arc appointed by the Lieutenant Governor and
Council, receiving five per cent on the money expended. 'I'lio great ri)ail>
are managed by supervisors, who receive ten per cent, and are appointe'l
by the Lieutenant (Jovernor and Council.

Are those «jcncraily persons who are(|naliticd for tin; business '

Ceneraily speaking 1 think not, some of the sujjcrvisors arc very goo;l,
and some few of the eommissioners may be tolerable.

Are the roads laid out by the commissioners 's*

No system has ever been adopted, and the Execiitive are ipiitc ignorant
of the direction of the by-roads (See i)apcr IJ. No. S.)

Mas the settlement and prosperity of the Province advanced of laic
^earsusmuch as its natural ca|)abilities und resources have led you (i>
ex|)i'ct from it ?

Jiy no means.

To what do you principally nttribnte the slowness of improvement .

To want of a systematic encouragement of emigration, wliieh, in addi-
tion to opening' up the extensive forests, would naturally increase the
runsumption of the Ikitish nninul'actures, ami thereby increase liu'
nveiiue of the Province.

Have any great exertions been made of late years to introduce emigra-
tion t

None whatever by the Government, beyond the ai)pointmeni, of
agents at St. John, St. Andrew's and Miramichi. The two latter have
been discontinued.

Have many emigrants arrived in the Province on their own account .'

A great many ; particularly at the ports of St. John and St. Andrew's,
but they generally proceed on to the United Slates, as tliere is not sulh-
cicnl encouragement for them in this Province.

What progress have been made by those in settlement who have rc-
aiaii.'^d in the country ?

Those who have obtained employment have done well. Also those
svlio have had money suthcient to obtain land, or to pay one instalment,
witli a tridc to set them agoing.

Uo yon consider there is sufficient encouragement for agricultural
settlers, provided they are settled on their land without further expence,
tjnt who have no capital to begin with ?

Provided a small stock of provisions was bestowed on them with the

V. IJlU NS. d

:k H

lu. •

:lr

iii-i^

land, I have no doubt but two or three thousand fantilies could be advan-
tageously aeltied annually for many years to come.

Would those parties be able to pay down or buy their land at a future
period by instalments?

I think by instalments, without any difficulty ; and I state this without
any hesitation, because hundreds of squatters who have taken possession
of Crown Lands now possess cleared farms, varying from sixty acres
downwards, besides valuable stock.

How many years would you give before you demanded any instal-
ment?

In three or four years they might begin to pay for their land by instal-
ments.

Have you any remarks to offer on the mode of locating emigrants in
the country ?

This letter (see Appendix No. 14) to the Under Secretary of State,
dated May, 1831, will give my opinion on this subject.

Are there any other causes likely to prevent improvement in emigra-
tion besides those you have mentioned ?

I think that one of the impediments towards the success of emigrants
is that they arrive with erroneous notions with regard to wages.

Do you consider there is injury felt at present from owners of wild
lands not contributing towards improvement ?

Yes, I do ; especially when the land happens to lie where a road passes
through it to a settlement, and when it stands in the centre of improve-
ments.

With reference to such exististing evils, and to prevent future occur-
rences, what would you propose as the best method ?
That the owners should pay a tax towards improvement.
If such a tax were determined, and the proceeds of it judiciously ex-
pended towards improvements in the country, and to promote emigration,
what do you think would be a fair amount for 100 acres ?
Five shillings per 100 acres would not be a burden.
Can you furnish a plan of the Province, to illustrate the foregoing
remarks ?

I can prepare one.

What number of squatters, or persons having no title to the property
they occupy, do you consider there are in the Province ?

The last return in 1837, gave upwards of 1500 families, about 200 of
them have since applied for the lands, and paid a proportion of purchase
money.
Do you consider that this number has increased f
I do.

What steps could be resorted to as most likely to remedy this mischief?
A careful inspection of the tracts taken up by them, and survey of the
lots, so as to enable the Government to give them titles when they apply
lor land.
Where are these persons chiefly situated ?

The greater number are on the north border of the Province, and about
the centre.

Are there many on the borders of the United States?

Not a great many, some few are to be found in those settlements.

What, in youi' -inrion, is an average price for agricultural labour ?

1-^

3 could beudvaii-

r land at a future

state this without
! taken possession
from sixty acres

inded any iiistal-

eir land by instal-

ing emigrants in

crelary of State,

t'emenl in emigra-

cess of emigrants

to wages.

1 owners of wild

iiere a road passes
ntre of improve-

ent future cccur-

lent.

it judiciously ex-
omote emigration,

i ?

ate the foregoing

farmers
a day.

From 38. to 38. 6d. a day, which includes their living, few
can afford to pay them at this rate. If labour was brought to 2s.
much more could be disposed of.

Are the wages the same at all seasons of the year ?

They are not so much in winter by about 6d. a day.

Is there a scarcity of labour in the country ?

I think there is, but the diflSculty is to provide for labourers in winter,
as much fewer are of necessity required at that season of the year. (See
additional Appendixes, Nos. 1 ^, 16, 17.)

le to the property

ies, about 200 of
ortion of purchase

edy this mischief?
and survey of the
when they apply

ovince, and about

settlements.
Itural labour ?

m\^" ■

The Iloiiorubic George fihore.

Have you been many years a resident in this Prnvincc ?
Yes, since 1803, during' whicli lime 1 have not been absent from tht'sn
colonics.

Have you held any ofliciul situation ?

I formerly held the situation of Deputy Surveyor General, and ut
Auditor, and now hold the ofiice of Protlionotary and CIcik of llio Su-
preme Court, and liuvc been a member of the Council since IsjI.

Have you attended to the system of disposing of Crown Lands since
the regulation of sale in 1827 ?

I have.

What, ill your opinion, was (he ellect of that system as to liio suttlr
nienl of wild lands ?

Injurious, generally speaking;.

In what particular do you consider it acted injuriously ?

It enabled vast quantities of land to be purchased by speculators, who
did not settle them, but hold them in a wild state, with a view to future
profit, thereby preventing the improvement of the country.

Did the parties pay the purchase money for their lands ?

Many did, but others failed.

Did the conditions of sale in tliose cases require settlement?

No, it was a bonajide sale, and had no conditions attached.

What is the system now pursued in disposing of Crown Lands .'

The system above alluded to was continued till LS.1}?, when " an Act
for the support of the Civil Government of this Province" was passed,
i^iving a new system for managing Crown Lands, and which is now
t olio wed.

In what particulars did this system materially dilVor from the preced-
ing one ?

The granting of lands under the former system was confined to the
Governor, upon the recommondatioii of the Commissioner of Cruwn
Lands only. Under the present system grnnls can only be passed by
and w ith the advice and consent of the Executive Council, which I con-
sider a great improvement, and the granting of large tracts of land has
been discontinued, and now confined mostly to lots of from 100 to 500
acres.

Are 500 acre lots the greatest that can be disposed of under this
legulation ?

No ; there is no limitation as to quantity ; but the Government now
discountenances the granting of large tracts, as being more likely to
facilitate the speedy settlement of the ungrauted lands.

How has this system operated in settling this Province V

It lias operated very well so far as it has been tried. It lias only been
m operation about eighteen months.

On what terms is land now conveyed to the settler ?

The lowest terms are 2s. Gd. per acre, for actual settlemc/it. The land
varies in value to an unlimited amount, according to duirur tor, situation,
or other advantageous circumstances, such as possessing mill sites,
intervals, «&c.

Do all grants now made include terms of actual setllemcnl ?

No; land that is sold at public sale contains no such stipulation.
Only those who apply for 100 acres, for the purpose of actual settle
ment, are bound to reside upon and cultivate their lands.

nhsent from llieso

General, and ul
Clerk of llie Sii-
iiicc IS-Jl.
own Lands since

as to the cftlle

speculators, who
a view to future
itrv.
ds'?

emeiit ?

ached.

\n Lands .'

, when " an Act

nee" was passed,

d which is now

from the preced..

confined to tlio
sioncr of Crown
ly l)c passed by
cil, which I coi)_
lacls of land has
from 100 to 500

d of under this

Cioveruincnt now
ng more likely to

e'^
It has only been

iiicnt. The land
iruc (or, situation,
ssing mill sites,

anient ?

such stipulation.

i of actual scltic

Are there any advantages offered to the actual settler in puicliasc of
land in preference to those of a speculator?

Yes ; the purchaser of 100 acres is allowed to select his spot, and his
land is not put up for public sale, and it is generally sold at the lowest
rate per acre, namely, 2s. 6d.

How is the purchase money required to be paid ?

The purchase money must be paid within 60 days, or the land becomes
forfeited and open to other applicants.

Does this system remedy the evil complained of as appertaining to the
old system^ which enabled lands to be taken up by speculators, havini;
no view to immediate settlement and improvement ?

The land is not offered for sale in lots of more than 400 or 500 acres,
which does in some measure prevent speculation.

Is there any law that would prevent more than one grant being nir.'le to
the same individual ?

There is no law to prevent it, but the Government discourage the i^rp.nt-
ing of lots above 500 acres to any individual.

Does not any attempt to enforce limitation admit of evasion, hy grant!^;
of land being taken out in other names, and by being transferred ?

No doubt it does.

What would you suggest as the best remedy to remove the evil arising
from holding blocks of land as above described, and as far as possible to
check a continuance of the same system ?

By a judicious legal enactment in the way of a tax on wild lands.

If such a tax was determined on, and the proceeds judiciously applied
to improvements in the country, and to promote emigration, what, in
your opinion, should be its amount ?

As far as the tax would apply to large tracts of land, I should not
think from Is. to 5s. on a hundred acres too much, and the tax should
be applied to otlier lands, on condition of improvement, but the detail?,
I am of opinion should be left to the Provincial Legislature to arrange.

Is there any other defect in the present system, besides the one pointed
out ?

1 see no other point requiring alteration at present.

Under this system, what time is required for a settler to be on his land
from the time of his applying for a grant l

The settler decides on the land, and makes his application for it (having
arranged with the Surveyor General.) He then petitions the d'overnor
m Council, which if complied with, he pays the amount of his fees, and
has his land immediately The lime required for the operation mu^l de-
pend upon the date of application. The Council consider such petitions,
the 1st of each month. The man may get his answer immediately, sixty
days are allowed for the payment of the money, but no more, as alter
that time the grant is forfeited.

Has the progress of granting timber licenses undergone any inatoriAl
change since the Act of last year ?

Yes the granting of timber licenses is by the prcFcnt law transferred to
the Governor and Council, instead of being conlincd as formerly to the
Commissioner of Crown lands, and the applicants are now limited to
smaller quantities of land to cut from.

Is the supply of timber equal to the demand in the market t

I think more at present.

.N. HiiiNs.

1 ' '

:lf

fl!^

'll

Are you aware of any change that miglit be made in the system of
granting liccnges that would operate to the benefit of tlie country ?

The present system will no doubt admit of much improvement, and
the subject has engrossed much of the time and attention of the local
Government, It is beset with many difficulties, great trespasses are
committed, and to remedy this evil, is not an easy task. This matter
is under consideration of the Government.

What proportion of squatters are considered to be in the Province ?

Upwards of 2000 I should think.

Are any steps taken to induce or encourage them to obtain grants of
the land they occupy ?

Yes they may have their grants by the new Act, on very advantageous
terms.

What are the terms ?

They may obtain a grant not exceeding one hundred acres, by payiiiu,
£12 lOs. either t'own or by four annual instalments.

Do many take advantage of this Act to obtain grants of land previously
occupied by them ?

Many instances have occurred.

Do you consider the present system will lead to lessen squatters in
future ?

Certainly, because the system now allows any individuals to apply Ibr
any lands so held, and causes the squatter to come forward and afply
himself, or run tiie lisk of his land beings granted to another, tliis opera-
tion has been frequer.tly acted upon.

Does this rule apply to private property, as well as Crown lands ?

It does not.

In your opinion would it be advantageous to the Province, and particu-
larly to that part of it nearest the boundary, to apply this system in all
cases ?

I think it would, but. there appears to me to be great difTiculties in the
way of applying this rule to private property.

Is the system of road making generally approved of, and such as you
thin'v aost beneficial ?

I (Jo not consider the system acted upon by any means perfect, but our
roads of late years are much improved. Supervisors of the great roads
are appointed annually by the Lieutenant Governor in Council, commis-
sioners of bye roads ore appointed by the same authority. The system of
statute labour admits of abuse, and I think would be much improved if
money were paid instead of labour.

Is the superintendence of roads under this system as efficient as desira-
ble ?

Many of our supervisors and commissioners of highways are well quali-
fied persons, and understand the business. But I think that a general
and scientific supervisor is essential to ensure good and permanent roads.

Have you had opportunities of observing tlie progress made by emi-
grants who have settled in the Province ?

1 have.

What class of emigrants do you consider as most successful ?

Those who have a knowledge of agricultural pursuits. Emigrants from
the North of Ireland have made good settlers, also the North of England
men, andlow land Scotch make good settlers.

n tlie system of
:ounlry ?
provcracnt, ami
tion of the local
t trespasses are
i. This matter

ic Province ?

ibtain grants nt

•y advantai;eouA

acres, by payini;
f land previously

ssn squatters in

jals to apply for
ward and apply
ther, this opern-

jwn lands ?

ce, and particu-
s system in all

difUculties in the

md such as you

perfect, but our
the great roads

biincil, commis-
The system of

lucli improved if

[Ticient as desira-

's are well quali-
: that a generut
)ermanent roads.
iS made by emi-

ccessful ?
Emigrants from
orth of England

4 are located free of exp'**
luv could (itntributo towuid

,)od soil,
liase or rent

what

after I
\l)ence f

itn<* }
t*.re, with

(lining ni\uual

one sbiliiiiig an acre after 7 years ?
'lie emigrant was allowed to have a share

PrftvW*^d sucii sell
time do ) 'U consider

In five ) ears.

What could a settlor ivflbrJ I

The fifth year he could pn^
increase.

Do you consider they could i

I think they might, provided
of the road work.

Would Huch terms, with an option of purchase at '20 years value of wild
land, or a lease for ever be such terms as would be likely to induce emi-
gration, and to contribute to their success {

I think such terms would be advantageous, and would be attended with
success.

What ctipital do you consider nn emigrant ought to have to start with
their fumilio!', averaging four persons each?

1 think an emigrant with a wife and two children, if on their arrival
in this Province they are to proceed forthvvilh to (heir locution, — say in
June, uhich I consider In be us favourable n time iis any, — must be
subsititcd for sixteen months, which iit a full ration for himself, and ii
half ration each to his wife and children, would, at nine-pence \h'v
ration, amount to about .t'45 currency. He nunt be assisted with food
tor thii) poi'iod if he is expected (o remain on \m land for the purpose of
clearing it. The fuiil summer he cnn give nothing, c:tccpt perhaps ti
few potatoes, and not even then, unless he is a very active and indns-
Iriods person, consequently he can reap nothing the following year until
the month of September and October, when his crops may be gathered.
His hut must be built for liini^ assisted by his own labour, which would
(lerhaps cost £10. The tools and implements of husbandry to be furnished
in the lirst instance, should be two narrow axes, of the best (pmlity, such
us are commonly used in this country — I)s. ; a whip saw to every six
families — '2()s, ; a crosscut saw to every six families — 25s. ; each person
two augurs, inch and a quarter and half inch — 7s. ; each settler two good
hoes — 7s. ; a hand saw, «&c — 10s. With this trilling supply he n>ay
venture to commence operations. A cow for every four families for
the first two years would be very desirable, if fodder could be obtained,
and it would be necessary, to induce success in the undertaking, that a
pair of stout oxen be provided to every four families, to log up their
chopping, nfler being felled, where the land is heavily timbered. Seed
wheat, oats and potatoes must also be supplied the first year of cropping.
This would all amount probably to £()5 currency for each family. In
new settlements the greatest advantage is to be derived from the erec-
tion of an oat mill and kiln, in suitable situations, upon a simple and
economical plan. An oat crop is always certain, and affords good food
when made into meal, and greatly assists the new settler. The straw also
is very useful as fodder for a cow or oxen.

Colonel Shore can you furnish a census showing the population of the
Province at different periods ]

'if' II

Population of New Brunswick in 1821.

Whilo«.

Po opio or Colour.

total of per-

Males.

Femnlca.

Malci.

Feuiaios.

sons.

Above Under
l(i lU

Aliuve
1()

Under
Iti

Above

Under
IG

Above
lU

Under

'.^2,(538,1 7,1 M

10,640

U),22r)

884

355

412

302

74,I7C.

Population of New Brunswick in 18.')4.

32,477'29,0O9 I 27,7{)9|'28,031 I 308 | 359 | 45)0 | :\7'2 \ ll!»,l.'})

Wlint number of militiamen were in the Province last year, and ui
intervals ten years preceding; ?

Strength of the militia of New Brunswick in the yrnrs

1817 0,.38'.) Total stmigth.

1827 17,800 do.

1337 ....20,212 do.

Including officers and non-commissioned ofticers.
What ages arc included in that return ?
In the rank and (ilo rate 10 and 45.
And no non-commissioned ofticer in this return as (o age f
The age docs not refer to non-commissiuned ofticers.
Do )'ou conceive the above return includes all the men in (he IVovincc ?
I think a great number are not enrolled ; from 3 to 5,0U0 persons that
arc nut included in this return.

m '

!■.)?■

I \

1.
luler

302

rotalofpcr.

iiOIIS.

71,I7(i

^72 I IMMfii
list year, and at

IslrcMKtli.
.lo. "

(lu.

ngc .'

I ill tlic iVoviiicc ?
•,000 persons (lint

Vciicral)lc Ardiileucon Coster,

Tliu Surveyor (ioiicrnl liaii furniHlicd tlic tullowiiic; list of lands (rrantcil
or reserved lor cliurcli and kcIiooIh Docs it correspond willi tin; inl'ornia-
tior. you liave on the Hubject 'f

No (loulit il is correet.

How many ineun\l)ents arc (here in the Province ?

At present twenty-lour, and lour assistants in orders.

How many parishes pre there '.'

At present alxnit ei;;hly, hut rnanyol them ininieri.ielv lar^'e ; in eveiv
I/'^ibiativc Session the nuudtcr is gradually increased hy the diviNioii ol
such ns ari' lound inconveniently extensive.

Are all llusu provided with land lor ecclcHiustical pur|i()ses and lur
education ?

Hy no means, no more than hall' of those already rorn\ed.

How many p.uishes of \'M) sipiare miles would (here he in case the
whole i'rovince shotdd he located throui^hout \'

'I'liere woidd he !()(• parishes.

In your opinion would the above nrran;.;emcnt be suilicient to accorn-
n\(»date the wants of the; people ?

I .should con>ider a parish containing IdOstpiare miles a very lar^c one,
and the I'rovince is capable of t'oruiing 'Ji*)!) of such parislies.

In case of emij^ratiou to this Province on a large scale, what nicans are
there to provide lor relijjious instruction in new setllements forminjj; in the
country '.'

I know of no funds upon whieii we ran securely count. The colonial
legislatures inaKo no appropriations for this object. The Imperial Par-
liament has willidrawn the assistance it gave, tdl lately, to the society
for the propa'j,:>lion of the Gospel, npon whieh the church depends, and
the withdrawal of such assistance has end)arrasseil the society, audit is
much to be regretted, that by the laic arrangement with reference to the
Crown lands, the Government has surrendered the control of them
without any stipulation for the fultilmcnt of the expectations whir'- the
church had been long encouraged to enteitain of help from that so ti

maintaining and extending its operations throughout the Provinc

Upon what were the expectations of which you s[)eak founded V

("bielly upon the Uoyal Instructions to the successive (Joverm
which they were directed to endow with land for the bnelit of the cl h,
all such parishes as shotdd be formed agreeably to these instructions.

>Vhat <iuantity of land do you consider would constitute such an en-
dowment as the Royal Instructions designed to each of the parishes,
which they directed to be Ibrnied i*

Five hundred acres of good land as Glebe, for the maintenance of the
ministers, and the same (piantity for the building and maintaining of a
church, besides what it may be thought pro[)er to allow for the purpose of
idncation in every parish

nio
Hy

>..v,v.v.v^.. ... ^. . . , I

Can you state brielly the grounds on whieli you represent an cniiow-

ent to this extt nl as having been designed t

\\y the curlnst instructions, addressed lo (jlovcrnor Carleton, in 1781, it

wus ordered that the Province should be divided into townships of about
l()0,Ot)0 acres, (or I')!) square miles each,) and that in eaeli of these
townships a spo' should be set u purt for the building of a church, and
land allowed for the niuinlcuancc of a minister und of a school inasler,
N. Diii'Ns. f

[ !

and also to aid the building of churches and school houses. The quan-
tity of land to be allowed for these purposes was in each township for
glebe (for maintenance of minister) not exceeding 1000 acres, for schools
not exceeding 500 acres, for building churches indefinite. In additional
instructions to Sir James Craig, dated 1808, it was directed that the
Province should be divided into counties, and those counties into parishes,
and that in each parish there should be set apart a spot for the building
of a church, and adjacent thereto, for the maintenance of a minister, 500
acres, and for that of a school-master (not exceeding) 500 acres, and
until the commencement of the late changes in the administration of the
provincial aifairs, the Executive of the Province considered itself author-
ized by these instructions to grant to each parish, when petitioned for it
by its ecclesiastical corporation, the quantity of land specified in the
preceeding answer, and did so in various instances.

What do you mean by the ecclesiastical corporation of the parishes ?

It is provided by an Act of the General Provincial Assembly that the
proprietors of pews in any parish church may elect two church wardens
and a vestry of not exceeding twelve members every year ; and these
church wardens and vestrymen, with the rector, constitute a parochial
church corporation, having the powers usually granted to such a body.
They are competent to receive grants of land, and manage it for the
benefit of the church, in their respective parishes.

What hindered the Royal Instructions for the endowment of parishes
from being carried more fully into effect ?

Chiefly the small number of clergymen employed in the Province,
which prevented the formation of such corporations to apply for and
" receive grants.

Has there been much improvement upon the lands already granted,
and possessed by the church ?

In most cases the Glebes are unproductive as yet, and at a distance
from towns, and will continue to be so until the country is better settled,
unless the clergy engage a little in farming, which (if they have to clear
the land) it is by no means desirable they should. But there are two
cases (and I believe three) in which the clergyman derives an income of
about £100 currency per annum, from his Glebe, and another case in
which this income exceeds £50.

What means are there to provide for education in newly settled parts of
the Province ?

This being a favourite object with the Provincial Legislature, they
may, I think, be depended upon to provide pretty liberally for it. We
have a deed by which provision is made for a grammar school in each
county, and for several schools of an inferior description in every parish,
the practice is to grant a stipend from the public treasury, of £20 per
annum, on condition of this same sum being made up by the people of
any settlement desirous of a school, provided that the sum do not in the
whole exceed £160 currency per annum, for each parish.

! \

jes. The quaiw
:li township for
crcs, for schools
In additional
irected that the
es into parishes,
for the building
a minister, 50O
500 acres, and
nistration of the
ed itself author-
petitioned for it
specified in the

the parishes ?
ssembly that the
church wardens
year; and these
tute a parochial
to such a body,
lage it for the

lent of parishes

the Province,
apply for and

liready granted,

id at a distance
is better settled,
3y have to clear
it there are two
es an income of
another case in

r settled parts of

legislature, they
ly for it. We
school in each
in every parish,
iry, of £20 per
ly the people of
n do not in the

The Honorable Thomas C. Lee, Receiver General.

At what time were you appointed to the office you now hold ?

In February, 1836.

Will you furnish me with an account of receipts in your oflicc on
account of land and timber sales ?

Yes. (See Appendix K.)

Does this list include all sums received on account of the casual revenue
since the passing of the new Act ?

It does.

This revenue is now paid lo the Province revenue in lieu of the Civil
List Bill i

Yes.

Is the amount received from land and timber exclusive of the expense
of collection ?

It is not.

Have you turned your attention to i.~>icuUuraI pursuits in the country ?

Yes.

On what conditions do you consider an emigrant may settle in this
Province to support himself and family with comfort and benefit to the
country ?

He should have at least fifty acres of good land, from three to four of
which should be cleared, a comfortable log house erected, and twelve
months' stock of provisions for himself and family. The emigrant should
not arrive at a later period than the month of April.

Suppose a man is put in possession of a good piece of land, what
capital would he require to carry on bis agricultural labours with fair
prospect of success i

About one hundred pounds.

In what time could such settlers begin to make any return, and to what
amount 1

1 do not think any return could be expected until after the expiration
of two years. At that time the settler might afford to make a return of
from Is. to 2s. per acre.

It has been mentioned that the great detriment to improvement in new
countries is the obtaining of lots of land by speculators, with a view to
future profit by the increased value of such lands, what, in your opinion,
could be resorted to in order to remedy this evil ?

I think this evil would be most effectually remedied by a land tax.

SSI

James Robb, M. D. Lecturer on Natural History and Chemistry, Kiiiii's
College, Fredericton.

Have you visited diflferent parts of the Province ?
I have.

Will you state any observation you have made ns to the capabilities ul
the country for advancement in agriculture or otherwise ?

I made an excursion through the north and west parts of the Province.
The greatest part of the north parts of the Province is slate rock alter-
nately, in many places with beds of limestone and iron ore. The slate
districts contain a fine clay soil, well adapted for agriculture, particularly
the upper part of the St. John, and most of the high lands on the Risti-
gouche River. The eastern shore, as well as the central districts of the
Province, are composed of red and grey sand stones, covered generally by
a light open soil, best adapted for corn, buck wheat, and potatoes. Gra-
nite, trap, limestone, and sandstones prevail along the shore of the Bay of
Fundy. These rocks generally rise into high mountains or bluffs, of a
character generally unsuited for the operations of the agriculturalist. At
the mouth of the St. John, and nearly as high as its junction with the
Kennebeccaris, there is good lime, in quantities suflicient for all the
colony, and for exportation. The banks of the river St. John, for up-
wards of 300 miles from its embouchure, as well Jis those of its very
numerous tributaries, with very few exceptions, present a soil for agricuL
ture. The Ristigouche has several small streams, with valleys, well
suited for agriculture. The banks of the upper half of the Ristigouche
are too precipitous for agriculture. From near the mouth of the Risti-
gouche, bordering the Bay of Chaleurs, there is tine soil, and as well
adapted for agriculture as any part of the Province. The east coast of
the Province bordering the Gulf of St. Lawrence, is generally very low,
with several spacious harbours, and arms of the sea, formed out of the
soft sand stone shore. The same chatacter of coast prevails from DaU
housie to the Bay Verte.

In your journey round the Province, did any extensive forests, and did
any mines or minerals, or other striking feature, come under your obser-
vation ?

There are extensive forests of soft wood on the west portion of the
Province. On the east portion of the Province hard wood generally pre-
vails. I found the following minerals or rocks existing in the country.
(See annexed list.)

There are numerous rivers in the Province generally, running north-
east and south-west. The want of high lands in the Province caused
them to approach each other to within a short distance, and points out a
great facility for \Aater communication. This is not a river, but has falls
which offer most valuable water privilege. The river generally issues
from swamps, which form extensive tracts of barren land.

Is the country through which you passed commonly suitable for agri-
enltural pursuits ?

The Jiard wood lands on the east coasts would be available for agricul-
ture.

Is the country generally settled near the roads through which you
passed ?

Generally speaking, but not always. On the east coast particularly

1? .i

Ihemistry, King^

he capabilities ol

i of tlie Provincf.

slate rock alter-
II ore. The slate
ture, particularly
nds on the Risti-
•al districts of the
'ered generally by
1 potatoes. Gra-
lore of the Bay of
is or bluffs, of 11
;riculturalist. At
unction with the
cient for all the

St. John, for up-
hose of its very
a soil for agricuL
,'ith valleys, well

the Ristigouche
3uth of the Risti-
soil, and as well
:he east coast of
inerally very low,
rmed out of the
revails from Dal-

re forests, and did
under your obser-

st portion of the

jod generally pre-

in the country.

r, running north-
! Province caused
and points out a
iver, but has falls
generally issues
d.
suitable for agri-

ilable for agricul-

rough which you

coast particularly

the roads generally passed through large tracts of forest without any
settlement.

Is the unsettled country generally susceptible of cultivation ?

Generally, except portions which are barren, and part of the country
that was too precipitous for cultivation.

In the parts of the country that were settled, were the people generally
improving the lands ?

Those who gave themselves up to farming were comfortable — those
who lumbered more than they farmed were generally not well off.

Are the inhabitants generally contented ?

Those who farmed in earnest, and cleared their lands, were generally
contented. The lumberers generally have dissipated habits, and their
lands are too frequently hampered with mortgages.

What class of people succeed best in agriculture 1

Those from the low lands of Scotland, the north of Ireland. Tlie
north and midland of England, and the U.S. appear to prosper best,
and are most indudustrious. The natives also succeed well.

The South of England, the south of Ireland and the north Highland
people are improvident, and also the French, with few exceptions.

Does any thing occur to you as wanting to advance the country, and
to promote and improve agriculture ?

Legislative encouragement in the way of premiums for agricultural
advancement. The formation of central and branch agricultural societies,
to distribute knowledge, and if possible to enforce the introduction of
agricultural science. The Americans have derived great benefit, by in-
troducing instructions in the science of agriculture, along with other
branches taught in schools and colleges. As an instance of the defect of
agriculture in this Province, the farmers continue generally jo pursue the
system of spring ploughing, notwithstanding the known backwardness of
the spring.

Is there any other cause for want of success in agricultural pursuits ?

The majority of emigrants have been poor, and have not had the same
advantages that the better class of English farmers have had, they con-
sequently adhere to many antiquated practices. The great errors are not
manuring land, clearing too much land, and outcroping land.

What observations have you made in the climate ofthe different places
through which you passed, in respect to agriculture ?

Generally speaking there are five months of summer, five months of
winter, and two months of broken weather. In Fredericton, in an
average year, there are 240 to 250 days perfectly clear from rain or fog.

Is there any part of the Province opposed to agricultural operations?

The precipitous side of the slate mountains of the north, and tracts of
barren, the exposed rugged hills on the bay shore, and swamps in the
interior. The shortness ofthe summer in the Bay of Chaleurs is also
opposed to agriculture.

Are there many settlers at present at the Bay of Chaleurs 1

The south of the Bay of Chaleurs is generally settled. There is a flou-
rishing settlement at Bathurst.

Do the inhabitants of the Bay generally exist by agriculture ?

Nine-tenths are farmers, some are also fishermen and lumbermen.

N. Bruns. g

5|:

1^] 'i

%■

t1 1

1 ■-'(" I

'i;:h

'5. :

pTT?-

M= ;i!i

' fe

Rocks and Minerals of New Brunswick, as seen by J. R. or ascertained

to exist— 1838.

Granite. — St. John, near St. Andrews, near Fredericton, near Bathurst —
Hammond River — Nisipis. This rock is useful either for
buiMing or for making of millstones, exists also in the form of
Boulders, all over the eastern half of the Province.

Hand Stone — Including freestone for building and flagging. Grindstone
and whetstone is perhaps the most prevalent in this Province.
It is found generally on both banks of the St. John, from the
Kennebeccaris to the Keswick.on theTobique and its Tributaries,
on the east coast of New Brunswick, from Jacquet River, near
Dalhousie, to the Missiquash, which separates New Brunswick
from Nova Scotia. It is found to extend from the mouth of the
Jemsig. where it joins the St. John, north-east to the mouth
of the Richibucto, where it falls into the Gulf of St. Lawrence.
It is found at the mouth of the Nashwaak, and probably continues
uninterruptedly to the month or the Miramichi, on the east coast,
so that we may reasonably conclude that the central portion of
New Brunswick is composed of this rock, when we recollect that
coal and ironstone generally occur in sandstone, and that these
minerals have already been noticed at several places, we will not
fail to perceive the great benefit which may be expected to
result from a more minute exploration of the district just
mentioned.

rw.

I. or ascertained

near Bathurst —
iseful either for
) in the form of
ace.

Dg. Grindstone
1 this Province.

John, from the
id its Tributaries,
quet River, near
1 New Brunswick
the mouth of the
ast to the mouth
of St. Lawrence,
robably continues
on the east coast,
central portion of

we recollect that
le, and that these
laces, we will not

be expected to
the district just

LIMESTONE AND MARBLE.

Bay Shore. — St. John> Musquach, and several points on the Shore of the

Bay.
St. John River. — Kennebeciues, Salmon River, Nascouckis, Kenwick,

Numquat, Presqu'isle, ToWque, Restook, Grand falls, &c.
East Court. — Caropbelton, Belledanec, Petit Rocker, New Bandon, Dor..

Chester, &c.
Salt. — ^Prine Springs in Sussex Vale, Tobique River, Mars Hill.
Ahm. — St. John, New Bandon, 8m:.
Plumbago. — St. John.

Gypstim or P/ffgr/er Coal.— Shepody, Tobique, Sussex Vale, New Bandon,
Richibucto, Peteoodiac, Sackville, Grand Lake, Salmon River,
Nashwak, Stanley, Campbelton.
/ron.— Woodstock, Presqu'isle River, Restook, New Bandon, Grand
Lake. — I have also specimens of Iron Ore from Meductic River,
Fredericton, Charlotte County, Dorchester and Madawaska.
Manganese, — ^Woodstock, Quaco, St. Martins.
Lead Ore. — Richibucto, Charlotte County.
Copper Ore. — Bathurst, Charlotte County, Eel River.
Tin — Said to exist on Restigouche.
Antimony Molybedena. — Bathurst.
Marl,
Peat,

Clay for Bricks,

Do Pottery» ^Abundance in many places.
Jasper,
Serpentine,
Mineral Springs. _
Indian Tradition of Burning Mountains.
Do Gold Mines.

Do Silver.

ii'l

III

I SSI

.< I

;• 1

I-

I- f :J

Its !;■ j ■

ft! if

;t . (■

CLIMATE OP FREDERICTON.

Mean Temp, of Fredericton, by daily Registers, 48^ F.

by observation on wells, 41. 5.

Main Temp, of Edinbourgh (Lat. 55. 57.) 47. 84.

Quebec, 41. 74.

London, 50. 3(j.

Paris, Si.

New York, 53.

The Summer, (3 months) Temp, of Fredericton—G 1 = 2— that of
Stockholm, in Lat. 59. 20. N.

Winter, (3 months) Temp, of Fredericton 18. 2. St. Petersburg, in
Lat. 59. 56. Greatest variation of Winter Temp, at Fredericton from
20 to 30 * — ^245 days fair weather, average year.

On 25th June, Sir John Harvey got at Woodstock, London papers
of 28th May, 3 bushels wheat on 3 acres land (Tobique) give 100 second
growth.
At Fredericton — Hardwood, Hemlock,

Grand Falls — Hazle, Epildbiun, Rasberry,
Pokiok — Poplar,

Ristigouche — Generally Poplar, White Birch,
Belledune — Poplar, Birch,
Near Miramichi, on heavy pine land — Hardwood, Rasberry,

" Hardwood, Pine.
On fair quality of soil — Cherry. Poorer — Birch and Poplar.
Barren. — Very extensive, generally owing to flat tracts of Sand or Sand

Stone. Sometimes to Peat Mosses.
Influence of Burning on Lands.

Eg. Rank Meeds on Portage of Grand River,
Tobique,
Miramichi,

MOST FLOURISHING SETTLEMENTS*.

Mary Lands,

Stanley.

Caverhall,

Jackson Town,

Mouth of Tobique,

Flat lands of Ristigouche,

Kouchebougual,

Brictouche,

Westmorland,

Clay and Marble Lands at Jackson Town,

Sandy at Miramichi.

48S F.
41. 5.
47. 84.
41. 74.
50. 3(1.
51.
53.
Bl o 2— that of

Petersburg, in
'redericton from

London papers
give 100 second

rry,

liar.

of Sand or Sand

R, Hayne, Commissioner, N. B. and N. S. Land Company.

Fredericton, 5th October, 1838.

Are you superintending the new settlement of Stanley P

I am the Commissioner of the New Brunswick and Nova Scotia Land
Company, and have in consequence the superintendance of the company's
establishments and settlements in this Province, of which Stanley is the
chief. The accompanying plan and map, with its respective references,
will furnish you with murli information as regards the soil, situation, &i'.
&c. of Stanley and its neighbourhood.

Will you state the formation and progress of that place ?

The foundation of this infant settlement was laid in 1834-5, by the
erection of a saw and grist mill, a blacksmith's shop, some carpenters'
sheds, and a few temporary dwelling houses. In reclaiming the wilder-
ness, with a view to the ultimate formation of a town or continuous settle-
ment, the above buildings are indispensible, and no expense should be
spared to obtain the best information previous to commencing operations.
Stanley now consists of 36 houscii, inclusive of two saw mills, a grist and
oatmeal mill, a large store and grannery, and school house, and has on the
town plot and immediate neighbourhood of the village 170 acres of cleared
land under crop.

What is the character of the soil ?

The tract of land belonging to the company is too large, (580,000
acres,) and not sufficiently known to permit me to speak in any but gen-
eral terms of the soil, which I have every reason however to believe, is
chiefly of a good quality That portion of it which surrounds Stanley,
for two or three miles on each side of the Nashwaak, is excellent, and
capable of yielding any kind of grain or root crops. So also are somL*
scattered blocks on the Hcswick, the Mactaquacks, and the Naca^'ick-
ack rivers. There are also some good blocks of hard wood, and intervale
lands on the south west of Miramichi, but they are not of frequent occur-
rence. I must here except the line of the portage road, from the head of
llie south west of Miramichi to the river St. John, a little below the
Sht'kitihok, which passes through a beautiful country. The lands bor-
dering on the Nashwaak are particularly well watered.

Have industrious settlers improved their condition, and have they fair
|ii()>ipects of success y

In June, \8'i6, fifteen families came out from the neighbourhood of
lieiwick-upon-Tweed, u.ider an agreement with the company, that on
their lurival lliey should be put in possession of a comfortable log house,
with live acres cleared and under crop, but owing to the extreme scarcity
of labour, (he high prices of |)rovisions, and other circuinslances, over
wliidi the Commissioner (my predecessor) had no controul, unfortunately
nealicr of those works were accomplished. The peopjc were, however,
put under cover, and «niployefl in clearing the land on their own allot-
iiietil.«, building Uig-house.«, niiikiiq roads, &c. at very liighwagTs Most
of these faniilii's earned t'roin £160 to £'200 duriniy the first scvev. teen
inontli", notwitlislaiuliiig tills, they are all in debt to the Company,
alilimi^li lliey have not paid one farthing' eiilier in the shape of rent or
pi;nlia-e of llair farni-*. This circinn^tance has tended to coiiliriu the

li
:n. Bkun.s.

, . <-'.

I!>!

r- ■

impreaiion a long residence in different parU of Lower Canada, and
fifteen months passed in this Province, has made upon me, namely —
that too much encouragement and indulgence in the way of wages und
provisions, arc as detrimental to the true interest of the new settler, as
tbey are to the prosperity and advancement of the settlement. These
settlers have now on an average ten acres clear, and under crop^ and two
acres chopped down, good houses and small barns, and are decidedly
improving their condition. Towards the fall of the same year, (I8f36,)
forty.eight families arrived from the Isle of Skye, Gieneig, &c. &c. under
a similar ag'reement, but finding these people (with very few exceptions)
so idle, improvident, and so utterly ignorant of Uie simplest agricultural
pursuit, that in the face of a debt of upwards of iSlOO per family, I was
induced to hold out a premium of from six to eight pounds to each
family to quit the Company's territory, and I am rejoiced lo add that I
have succeeded, with the full concurrence of the Court of Directors, in
getting rid of all but ten families, most of whom are now doing tolerably
well.

What means do settlers require to set (hem up in new locations ?

Emigrants wholely unprovided with means, and coming to this country
under the auspices of Government, or any public company, ought to be
provided with a log house, as covering only for the first two or three
months after arrival, two acres under cultivation, one in potatoes, the
other with wheat ; with a spade, an axe, a hoe, and an auger, a sufficient
quantity of clothes and bedding to withstand the rigour of the climate,
provisions to last for five months, viz : the middle of May to yielding of
the produce of the land in October, together with four or five pounds for
the purchase of comforts for the first winter, would convert an indus-
trious, honest agricultural labourer, into an independent and respectable
small farmer in six or eight years. I here suppose that the settler arrives
in May, and finds liis house built, and his land cropped, and that he will
be enabled to make his house frost proof ; clear five or six acres, and
perhaps earn two or three pounds prior to the setting in of the winter. I
am decidedly averse to giving daily rations as a temporary assistance to
settlers, as from a reliance on others for support, this indulgence is
apt to engender idleness ; and on its cessation to produce depression and
discontent. The system pursued by the company in the disposal of their
land, has hitherto been, that each settler on arrival, be put into posses-
sion of a comfortable log house, and one hundred acres of land, five of
which are to be cleared and cropped, for which the settler is to pay a
rent of one shiUing per acre, or purchase the lot by instalments, within
the first ten years of occupation, at twenty years' purchase, or one
hundred pounds. These terms I conceive to be highly advantageous to
the settler, but they are at the same time unprofitable to the company,
if the system be carried to an extent beyond the mere formation of a
settlement, or of the collecting together of a body of steady agricultural
labourers, preparatory to the introduction of persons of enterprise and
capital, which will be made evident by the following calculation :

Clearing five acres, at £5 per acre £25

Cropping ditto £7 lOs. 7 10

Log house similar to that now occupied by the

Berwick emigrants 35 10

£G8

Canada, and
le, namely —
f wages und
cw settler, as
nent. These
crop, and two
ire decidedly
year, (I83G,)
&c. &c. under
w exceptions)
t agricultural
family, I was
unds to each
to add that 1
Directors, in
oing tolerably

atione ?
lo this country
ought to be

two or three

potatoes, the
;er, a sufficient
of the climate,

to yielding of
five pounds for
'ert an indus-
nd respectable
2 settler arrives
nd that he will
six acres, and
the winter. I
ry assistance to

indulgence is
depression and
isposal of tlieir
ut into posses-
f land, five of
r is to pay a
ilments, within
irchase, or one
idvantageous to
the company,
formation of a
idy agricultural
enterprise and
ition :

£25
7 10

3J 10

£G8

thus leaving only i9ti te pay for each lot of land, inclusive of
tho expenaea attendant ( n survey, &c. kc. &c. N. B. — The houses of tlie
Skye emigrants are not so expensively built as the above.

Can they repay any portion of money advanced, and in what lime,
and how much per year ?

In accordanoe to my calculation in reply to query No. 5, as to what
should be done for settlers of the poorer class, preparatory to arrival, I think
no payment can be made for the three first years. I am strengthened in
this opinion by the fact that rtpne of the settlers on the company's lands
have yet repaid any portion of the advances made for their passage to
this country, or paid up any rent or instalment for their farms, notwith-
standing the advantages which have been afibrded them.

What arrangements should be made previous to the arrival of settlers ?

This question has already been replied to in my answer to query No.
5, as regards the poorer classes, but with reference to the better class of
agricultural labourers. I should recommend the same arrangements to
be made for them as for the poorer class, only they should be required,
not only to pay for the improvements made on their lands, hut also to
pay an instalment on the purchase of said land on entry. 1 of course
suppose that this class have sufficient capital to maintain themselves for
the first twelve or fifteen months.

Are there any points that have come to your notice requiring attention
to advance and promote emigration ?

From the specimens 1 have seen, I am almost inclined to be opposed
to emigration en masse, unless indeed a clergyman, or some person of hit'h
character and respectability, up to whom a body of emigrants could look
with confidence and respect, settles among them ; in this case it would
be necessary to have as little dealing as possible with petty shop keepers,
and to take every precaution to avoid the introduction of spiritous liquors
into the settlement. The most thriving and independant farmers I have
seen in this country or in Canada, are those who, on thfir outset carried
their provisions on their backs several miles info the wilderness. Fortune
and a good selection of land might have favored them, ')ut such is the
fact. If funds were no consideration, I should strongly recommend
the course I have laid down in No. 5, to be carried out in different sections
of the Province. I allude to the construction of a log house, and putting
a certain quantity of land under cultivation, prior to the arrival of the
emigrant. In all cases I should advise that the charge for land be very
moderate, and that each settler be compelled to clear thi?e acres annually,
and pay for his land by small instalments. There can be but one opinion
as to the class of emigrants, who must inevitably do well, if they will but
maintain steady, sober and industrious habits. Agricultural labourers,
carpenters and blacksmiths will soon convert the wilderness into a thriving
settlement. Gentlemen coming to this country with from eight hundred to
a thousand pounds, can purchase and stock a good farm, which, with an
annual income of £60 or £100, will, by the exercise of common prudence
and industry render them independant. No gentleman should go into
the wilderness under the impression that he will there be able to earn a
livelihood by his own exertions. 1 have witnessed many unhappy results
from failures in such like attempts. Irishmen are better calculated than
any other old country men, for backwoodmen — they stand up against
ditiiculty and hardship with good humour and determination, and sustain
privations of food and raiment in an astonishing degree. Lowland Scotch-

;.!i

1' ■!'

I ,

men made good settlers. Highlanders are proverbially idle, improvi.
dent and unenterprising. Englishmen from Suffolk, Yorkshire, Devon-
shire and the agricultural counties generally are valuable emigrants.

Will you make any remarks that come to your observation to promote
success and advance emigration, making of roads, &c. &c. P

A reply to this query has already been embodied in the foregoing, with
the exception of what may refer to roads, the formation of which I con.
sider indispensible to the advancement and prosperity of a new country,
as it not only developes its resources, but gives employment to the early
emigrant, enabling him the sooner to pay for his land. I should here
suggest the expediency of following the system laid down by the company
in this particular subject, viz :— -that the emigrants of one year be em-
ployed in preparing for those who may arrive the next coming season,
in clearing lands, building houses, making roads, which latter should in-
variably be carried, in the outset at least, through the best of land^.
To an experienced and practised eye, one hour's inspection produces
a more vivid and lusting impression than all (he detail I cuuld
enter into on paper. I very much regret, therefore, your sudden and
unexpected departure from this Province, not only indeed on account of
its having deprived me of an opportunity of showing the Company's
establishment at Stanley, but becauHC it has compelled me to send you
a very hurried and curtailed report, which I shall now conclude by giv-
ing you an outline of the present state of tlio Company's improvements,
with wliicli His Excellency Sir John Harvey was pleased to express liim-
self highly delighted, during his recent tour through the Province : —

Stanley is distant horn Fredericton about twenty-five Jiiiles, the first
eight aie passed over by the lluyul Road, the remuindtrby a road made
solely at the Company's cxpeni^e, which cost about three ihousand pounds.
On this line of road, lots uf one hundred acres ure regularly laid oil ;
sixty-ono houses built, and three hundred and eighty acres ciciiied ami
under cultivation. The town plot of Stanley ronlains two hundred and
»is(y-six acres, one hundred and severely of which ure ticiued. The
population of Stanley, and the road leading thereto iVum Fredericton, is
two hundred and fifly-six. From Stanley to Campbell, un the south-
west river, sixteen and a half mile.", a road has been opened, well bridged,
and partially cleared of ^slumps. It will soon, however, become impass..
able, it the Government or an increase of settleis do not make some
pecuniary Bp|)ointmei)t to complete, by their voluntary labunr, what h.s
been *o well commenced. On this road there are two hnndrtd acres
under cultivation, and three settlers etitablished. At C<im|ibell, the
Company have a small estublishnient, and about one hundred and sixly
acre:> under cultivation. There are about eight houses on the village
plot, which, with but little expense, might be made very cond'oi table
residences for mechanics. There are only a few scattered settlements
higher up this branch of the river. About »ix miUs below Canipbtll, at
Buceslown, a huiall villuge chieily snpported by its mill, there are two
horizontal strata of a slate coal, distinctly visible, one abonl lhrei>, tin;
other about live tVet from the surlace. There are thirty-two \:>ts willi
lioiists vacant on the road from Frederic'on to Stanley, two (birds of
wliicli are good und eligible for sclllenients. There are a lew cxcelleiil
lots williDUt houses on the road to Campbell ; the l:wul thiuniiii wliiih tlio
road jiasscs i?> an averajiO (|iialily. On the Royal IJi ail llnrc aio tliiriy
.>«i\ lets liaviii''' unfiiii'litd iiou.'jcson ihcin, eliL'ible lor bink'ineia. Tiiou;

idle, improvi-
tshire, Devon-
migrantfl.
ioa to promote

. ?

foregoing, with
which I con-
inew country,
nt to the early
I should here
»y the company
le year be em-
:oming season,
atter should in-
best of land^.
iction produces
detail I could
our sudden and
d on account of
the Company's
ine to send you
onclude by giv-
I iinprovemeiitH,
(u express hini-
Piovince : —
4nile«, the first
■ by a road madu
housund pounds.
Ignlarly laid oil';
tres clciiied and
\YO hundred and
■e clertied. The
li Fiedeiicton, is
.., on llic south-
id, well bridged,
become impass..
not make some
llabonr, what h^s
[o hundnd acres
Cam|)bi;ll, «!ie
indrcd and sixty
IS on the village
ery comfortable
red settlements
i\v Canipbtll, at
, llicro are two
about three, tin;
Ity-two lots willi
y, two thirds of
a few cxet'lleiit
lonuli wliitli (111!
|l till re aiu lliiiiy
tlemeil. Thcu;

nru also other lots having partial clearances, which, if occupiid next
s|)ring, (1831),) when the roads arc in (ho course of prosecution, v.ould
become valuable, otherwise the brush and underwood will grow up and
render (ho land more difficult (o clear (ban when encumbered by the
orif^inal growdi of timber, The line of projected road to Woodstock,
(vide plan,) is eligible for settlement throughout. Should His £xcellcncy
the Governor General propose any extensive plan for immediate cmiG^ra>
tion, I trust the foregoing statement, showing the numerous vacant lots
and eligible sites for settlement, may not be lost sight of. I further
liopo that a knowledge of the fact, that the New Brunswick and Nova
Scotia Land Company have, within the short period of thrco years and u
half, expended no less a sum than eighty thousand pounds, in reclaiming
their wilderness lands, and rendering them fit for the reception of the
surplus population of the mother country, without any earlv prospect of
a reasonable return for this outlay, will induce His Excellency to con-
sider this Company deserving the patronage of Her Majesty's Govern-*
inent.

Signed, R. HAYNE,

Commissioner, N. B. and N. S. Land Company.
Frcdericton, 5th October, 1838.

N. Bruns.

i' I

J. A. Miiclaughlan, Esciuirc.

Have you been long rcaiilcnt in this Province ?
Yes, HJncc 1827.

Have you had un opportunity of cxaiuiniiig any portion of the country
Ru as to form nn opinion as (3 its capabilities for cniigratiun and gcucrul
improvement ?

Yes my public duties since 1818 have afforded me an opportunity of
examining the lands in all sections of the Province, cxcenting the Nortii
Shore, now called the county of Ulouccster, and I am fully satisfied that
the lands generally through the Province arc well adapted for agricultural
purposes. However, I am of opinion the greater bodies arc to be found
on the St. John's River, between Fredericton and the Madawaska settle-
ment, a distance of 100 miles, and extending for miles east and west.

Will you state your opinion for opening the resources of the country,
80 as to introduce immediate emigration. I should recommend the
opening of lines of communication from the seat of Government to certain
points as follows :

From Fredericton to the Grand Falls, and through the Madawaska settle-
ment to the St. Lawrence — all roads from these lines to intersect points
on the St. John River and the north shore.

On these lines I should recommend the surveying of allotments of 100
or 150 acres cacli, with a frontage suflicient on the road to prevent them
extending above threc.fourths of a mile to the rear, so as not to intimidate
emigrants from settling in the second range, where it is most probable
roads might not be immediately opened.

What capital do you think necessary to enable an emigrant to settle in
this country with a family ?

From thirty to fifty guineas would enable him to locate himself very
comfortaL le on any of the lines of road first alluded to, provided he met
with encouragement from Government, in allowing him his allotment of
one hundred acres free, or by paying a trifling amount for the same in
two or three years. However, I should strongly urge the Govern*
ment, if desirous of settling the dense wilderness of this Province, to
allow the whole, or at any rate a portion of the first settlers on these lines
a free grant on certain conditions of improvement, and at the same time
I recommend that Government should reserve long alternate lots, I think
in a few years it would more than compensate for the cutting or making
roads and surveying the land.

p5 ___L

ROAD^

o S
o . o

N. B — By this arrangement of lots the reservation does not prevent
the road being well settled.

of the country
ill and gcucrul

)pport unity of
ting llic North
satisfied that
for ngricultiiral
u'c tu be found
dawasUa settle.
St nnd west,
of the country,
ccoinmend the
inicnt (o certain

\da\vaska settle-
intersect points

llotments of 100
to prevent ihein
lot to intimidate
is most probable

grant to settle in

ate himself very
provided he met
I his allotment of
t for the same in
go the Govern*
his Province, to
ers on these lines
at the same time
nate lots, I think
itting or making

does not prevent

What method do you recommend as best suited to form the road* (liat
you have spoken of P

Tu have all the trees and under bruHh grubbed or taken out twenty,
four feet in width, then the ground ploughed, and form a trowing ol
twelve or fifteen inches, also to have a sKirling of twenty feet on each siile,
by cutting down the trees to within two and a half feet from the surface.

What do you consider a road as you have described would cont a mile "

It would not exceed £160 currency a mile, including bridges.

Are there many squatters or settlers without titles in the part of tin
country you arc best acquainted with ?

Yes, there arc but the greater part aro residing within the disputed
territory. The remainder nro in back scltlcmenta oil" the Saint John, and
generally very poor men, with large families.

Are they generally n contented class of persons f

They appear so, although Government periodically threatens to sell
their lands if they do not come forward and [lay oil" their instalments.

Do you consider the price of land has been too high in this Province,
and detrimental to the settlement of the country ?
It has caused one-third less population than wc otherwise should have had.

Are the crops of grain and potatoes generally good that are raised on
lu-w land, and what is the increase ?

They are more certain than on old or cultivated land, and the increase
very often double.

Wheat and other grain from twenty to thirty bushels from one.
Potatoes from twenty to thirty bushels from one.

ill

:».

■ ' h
I*

\fi

Charles Peters Welmore, Esquire, Clerk of the House of Assembly.

Road appropriations in New Brunswick for the years 1830 to Ib'JH,

botii inclusive.

What oflicial situation do you hold in this Province ?
- Clerk of the House of Assembly.

Can you, from the documents in your office, give me any information us
to the manner of appropriating the monies for the improvement of the
several roads and bridges throughout the Province ?

The mode adopted by the Assembly in making appropriations for the
road service is to refer the matter to a Committee of the House, made up
by a member from each county, which Committee report the sums to be
appropriated, and so much thereof as is required for great roads, is appro-
priated by that Committee to the respective great roads, and the amount
to be expended on the bye-roads is divided between the several counties,
in proportion to the extent of bye.roads in each county, leaving the mem.,
hers to make distribution thereof; but no parish gets any poiiion of the
grants unless certificates from the Courts of Sessions, are filed in the
office of the Secretary of the Province, and laid before both branches of
the Legislature, stating the statute labour in the parish to have been per-
formed.

Under whose direction are these grants expended 1

The great road grants are expended under the direction of supervisors,
appointed by the Executive, in charge of each road, and the bye-road
grants by commissioners, also appointed by the Executive, after the close
of every session. These commissioners are annually recommended by the
members for the different counties.

What remuneration is allowed to these officers ?

The supervisors receive a commission for their services of ten per cent
on their expenditures, and the commissioners five per cent.

In what manner are the accounts of expenditure made up, and hew
audited ?

Returns of these expenditures are made up under oath, accompanied
by the proper vouchers, and are audited by a Committee of the House of
Assembly at every session. To this same Committee are also referred
all accounts connected with the expenditure of the provincial re-
venue.

Does this system of auditing the accounts give satisfaction ?

Certainly, tor the members of the Assembly being best acquainted
with the situation and condition of the roads in the different counties,
have an opportunity of best knowing whether the monies have been
faithfully expended.

Can you furnish a scale of the appropriations for roads for a few years
past?

Yes, and I exhibit this abstract for the years 1830 to 1838. — (See
scale, Appendix No. 1.)

Arc you enabled to inform me of the whole amount of appropriations,
say for two years past ?

In answer to this question I refer to reports submitted to the Assembly
from the Committee of Finance in the years 1837 and 1838.

Have you any information in your possession relative to the several
mill establishments in the Province ?

l«

5 >

iil

f Assembly.
830 to lb3H,

f information as
ovemenl of the

nations for the
louse, made up
the sums to be
roads, is appro-
itnd the amount
iveral counties,
iving the meni-
• poi Uon of the
are filed in the
th branches of
have been per-

of supervisors,

i the bye-road

after the close

mended by the

if (en percent
up, and hew

accoiripanied
f the House of

also referred
provincial re-

St acquainted
•eiit counties,
ies have been

>r a few years

) 1838.— (See

ipropriations,

he Assembly

to the several

In 1836 a return of mills, confined to saw mills alone, was communica-
ted to ihe Assembly, showing the extent and value of the establishments
in operation the previous year (1835). There have been no returns since
that period. Since that time various companies have been created by
Act of Assembly, and there are very extensive mills erected, and now
in active operation. Besides these, various private establishments have
been built. As to the value of these I can form no estimate.

N. Burns.

■f1

■ 1?

1 'i

!ur' .'

liw^i!

?li

k i

Mr. jriZ/jam J. Bedj7/.

What business are you engaged in ?

In the commercial line.

Have you extensive dealings witli parties settled in the interior of tl"r
country ?

I have.

From your knowledge of such persons and llieir transactions, do you
consider the Province otters advantages to agricultural and other
settlers ?

I consider that in almost all cases where agricultural emigrants have
been industrious and saving, they have in a few years become indc
pendent. I have known numerous instances of that class of persons
being so.

Persons who engage in lumbering are not so generally succes-
ful?

When they are prudent and industrious tliey acquire money to pur-
chase property.

Do many persons contiiuie labourers for a great length of time ?

They generally obtain means to become settlers themselves.

Has there been any changf in the prices of provisions of late
years ?

There has for two years. Flour, and provisions generally, have be-
come cheajjer.

What has been the change in two years ?

There is not much dillerence in the last two years.

Do the imports increase in articles of provisions ?

They increased gradually to 1837. The good sea -m, adi'ed to greater
agricultural exertion, has caused decrease since tint ' e

What do you consider would be the expen ; intaining a

family of live persons twelve months, comprising . and his wife
and three children ?

1 think that fifteen pounds Avould provide a family of five persons
with wholesome food, and ten pounds with comfortable clothing for one
year.

What class of settlers are mostfiiigal, and least expensive in their
mode of living?

The Irish and Welch and the Lowland Scotch make good set-
tlers.

Are there any arrangements that you consider would advance settle-
ments, and benefit emigrants on their arrival ?

The first thing they want is land ready for them to settle on, and
to know where they are to go, and roads, or a means of communication
to those lands.

Have you known many persons who have come to the Province with
the intention to settle in it ?

Yes, mostly W« Ish.

Were those persons generally in destitute circumstances vv'ien they
left .'

No, quite the reverse.

What reasons diil (liey assign for leaving the country ?

No given reason-, and many of them returned.

I''

interior of tl"?

actions, do you
iral and oilier

emigrants have

become iiide'

ass oF persons

iierally siicces-

moncy to pur-

of lime ?

Ives.

I'isions of late

•rally, have bc-

df'ed to greater

!: inlaining a
and his wife

f five persons
otiiing for one

msive in their

ake good set"

idvance settle-

setllc on, and
:on:munication

Province with
:es wlicii they

Henry Darlelt Rainsford.

Have you resided long in the Province ?

[ was born in the country, and have lived in it since then.

Have you had considerable experience in agriculture ?

YC8.

Will you state whether, in your opinion, the climate admits of agricul-
ture, and emigrants settling to advantage to theniselvos, and on what
terms ?

Industrious and sober emigrants can do easier, provided they are
settled on a portion of the good land, of which there is abundance in the
Province. I have had servants that I did not consider the lic^t of labour-
ers, realize good properties, by settling aftcrwnids themselves, with much
greater difficulties to contend with than at present, in consequence of
better roads now existing, and better markets.

What ought a settler to have in hand, to settle witli good prospect of
success?

I think £oO would set an emigrant going very well.

Could he, after a few years, make a return for any advance?

I think in five years he could.

What amount could he pay in five years, and could he pay more in
succeeding years r

A man with a farm of one hundred acres could pay £I0 a-year after
the fifth year.

To do this would a settler require to have any decided advantage as to
market, or does it apply to any settler ?

It ap|)lies to any settler.

Are there any large parts of the Province capable of agricultural im-
provement on the al)ovc terms, but remaining in a wilderness state ?

Ye.s, I have seen large portions of it.

Do you consider it desirable to locate settlers in any number in the
same place ?

Yes, in settlements of from twenty to fifty families.

What quantity of land ought a settler to possess on beginning?

I think one hundred acres.

How much of that wonld be available land wiien the farm was made ?

Probably one half. The rest would remain in timber land.

Have you known emigrants from Europe pass through the Province?

Yes,

What is the reason for doing so ?

Their not having sudicicntencouragement to settle here. The exports
of timber arc so great that agriculture is neglected, and the want of room
is a check to emigrt tioii.

Is there any clitiiculiy in finding land to settle on witli sufficient facil-
ity .?

Yes, the emigrants aVe lost in the wilderness, having no person to
direct them on their coming to settle on their lands in the interior of the
country.

Has there been much increase of agricultural population of late years ?

The increase of Iresli .settlers has been slow.

Is there a want of labour in the country?

Yes.

What is the price of agricultural labour ?

ill

From £2 to £S a month, and (hey are fed by the employer.

Are these the wages throughout the year 1

I do not think the wages vary moch any season of the year.

Are there any that complain of the road system ?

It is generally thought (he contribution to roads ought to be paid in
money ; — the poor man would be employed to do this work.

Is there much injury felt by blocks of land being left in a wilderness
state ?

Yes, a great deal.

Do you consider a tax on such lands would be advisable to cause
them to be attended to, if such a tax was applied towards improvements
in the country ?

Yes, I do.

What do you consider ought to be the amount of such a tax ?

I (hink five shillings on every hundred acres would not be too much.

rr'jH

yer.

year.

t to be paid in
)rk.
n a wildemegR

disable to cause
s improvementst

a tax?

be too much.

Mr. Beckwith, Merchant, of Fredericton.

How long have you resided in the Province ?

I am a native of the country.

Have you been in any situation that required you to remark particu.
larly any fact of the Province ? '

I was eighteen years in the Crown Land Office, and visited every
county in it repeatedly.

Are there any large tracts of the country available for agricultural
purposes not at present occupied ?

Many very large tracts.

Are these tracts in possession of the Crown ?

Yes, there are a few large tracts of land, private property, and these
were principally purchased with the view to lumbering. There is a clause
in the grant of those wood lands, which enables the Crown to obtain re-
possession of them when wanted for settlement.

What were the terms on which these leases were made ?

They were to cut £4 per acre of timber per square mile.

What is the duration of these leases ?

Most of them are for five years, and a few in remote places are for
twenty-one years.

Is this system still in operation ?

It is not, the leases are now renewed annually.

In what part of the Province have you observed the large tracts of land
you alluded to, as favorable for settlement?

The most extensive tracts favorable for settlement now in the hands of
the Crown, are in Gloucester, including Restigouche, Carleton and York
County.

What might be the extent of those tracts, inclusive ?

In Gloucester there are upwards of 1,000,000 acres ; in Carleton 1,500,
000 acres ; in York 500,000 acres ; in Northumberland 500,000.

Are there other tracts also of considerable extent ?

Yes, principally in Kent and in King's County, in every county is
some land fit for agricultural purposes.

Are these tracts in large blocks ?

Generally in one block.

Have you known emigrants to arrive in this Province with a view to
settlement, and afterwards remove to other places ?

1 have, many.

What were the causes for their doing so ?

They were generally too indigent to purchase land from the Crown, and
from the want of capital in this country they have better prospects of
employment in the United States.

What has been the success of that class of settlers who have been able
to obtain land of good quality after a few years of considerable privation,
the generality of them have become independent, and have left their
families in comfortable circumstances.

You allude to men who have no capital to begin with ?

I allude to men who were supported and located by charitable sub-
scriptions.

N. Rbums,

mm:'

te « J

What sum ought they to have to enable them to avoid such privations,
and lo start with fair prospects of success ?

A family of six persons should have £50 after the land is paid for.
Would this sum include house and provisions?
That sum would include every thing, supposing that they have a toler-
erable supply of clothing. A man starting with more than £50 might
purchase land partly cultivated.

Would a settler as above described be able after a few years to make
any return ?

He would afler five or six years.
To what amount per year .'

In five years a settler would have grass land fur stock ; he could pay
£5, and could increase this sum by £4 a-year in after years.
What quantity of land is requisite for each settler ?
One huiiiired arres.

What portion of this land could be clear in five years ?
There would be twenty-five acres available, and ten or fifteen rough
cleared for pasture. This is as much clear land as a settler can work
with advantage.

Is there sutHcient facility afforded at present for locating emigrants as
they arrive in the country ?
I think not.

In what particular is that system defective?

A sufficient quantity of land fronting on roads or navigable streams is
not at present surveyed. The a[)plicant cannot obtain possession of
land on an average in less than from six weeks to three months.
How might this be remedied ?

At such parts of the Province agents should be furnished with plans
of surveyed grants in the vicinity, and should be enabled to locate emi-
grants on their application, on payment of a small sum.
What are the wages given to labourers'?

Farmers pay from £18 to £24 a-year, and board them ; lumbermen
gt;t from £3 10 to £G per month, and board. This is a precarious
source of employment.

Is there a want of agricultural labourers?

There is ; the farmer cannot afi'ord to pay more, and the men are
induced to go to the lumber business.
How does the lumber business proceed ?

The large square timber is being exhausted. The timber for mills is
nearly inexhaustible, and this business is rapidly increasing, by erection
of mills and e.xports of manufactured timber.

Does the above operation tend to increase or diminish the number oP
lumbermen?

It \^ili increase the demand for lumber and mill men.
Is the price of flour rising in the country ?
The price fluctuates, anil depends on foreign markets.
Are agriculturists who are settled in the interior of the country, as v,e]\
off as persons who combine agriculture with lumbering?

The most thriving parts of the country are where there is no lumberin::
carried oni at the same time the market is benefited by lumber, a farmer
benefits by having a mill in his neighbourhood to take off timber in the
winter season when there is no farming going on.

i such privations,

id is paid for.

they have a (oler-
than £50 might

Bw years to make

Do emigrants get on better by being located singly or in numbers ?

In numbers, and do better when some persons of the country mingle
with them. The great drawback to the country, is the straggling state
of settlements.

What would be a desirable number of families to begin a settlement ?

Twenty or thirty families.

Have you observed any class of men, get on better than others ?

North of Ireland men are the best settlers, they are good settlers lor
all parts.

?k ; he could pay
ears.

I or fifteen rough
setller can work

ing emigrants as

^igable streams is
ain possession of
! months.

lished with plans
3d to locate emi-

lem ; lumbermen
is a precarious

md the men are

imber for mills is
sing, by erection

sh the number of

country, as Avell

i is no lumbcriii:,'
umber, a farmer
off timber in the

'8 (.1

a ■ !

ij :>:]■■

■ 1

Mr. William James Berlon.

Have you resided any time in the neighbourhood of the Bay of Chalc ?

Three years.

Were you employeu in that place in an official capacity ?

Yes, Deputy Commissioner of Crown Lands, and Deputy Surveyor.

Is there much land in the neighbourhood of the Bay of Chaleur remain-
ing in possession of the Crown ?

A great deal.

Are there many settlers in that part of the Province ?

It is settled all along the skirts of the Bay and the River Restigouchc.

What number of settlers are there in the part you mention ?

About 10,000

Has there been any great increase of settlers there of late ?

Not many ; it is a place very little known.

Is the soil favorable for emigrants ?

In general I think it is. There is good and bad land.

How is the climate ?

It is generally fine and remarkably healthy.

Is it favorable for agriculture P

Along the skirts of the Bay I think it is.

Are the settlers generally thriving and contented ?

They are generally contented and thriving, many have left farms for
Canada, thinking it a better country.

Is there much lumbering carried on ?

There is a great deal ; but there is not so much this year.

Is there likely to be an increase of lumbering ?

I think not, unless they get mills established.

How is the timber country at this part ?

Their is a fair timber country between Bathurst and the head of the
Restigouche also in the direction of Miramichi River, and towards the
River St. John. There is fine land for settlement at the Restigouche
River.

Does this country admit of agricultural emigrants making a comfortable
livelihood ?

Yes, I think so.

On what terms ought a man to start, with good prospects of success ?

A man with 100 acres of good land, starling with £30, would, in a
few years be able to pay £d a year instalment, and if an industrious
man he ought to be able to pay more.

What is the rate of wilderness land in that part of the country ?

Two shillings and six pence an acre. I think people would willingly
pay these.

Do you consider that settlement is kept back by want of means to pro-
cure laud wilhout immediate payment ?

Yes, I think it is.

What do people do who cannot procure land ?
They become squatters or they leave the country altogether.
Do some hire themselves as labourers till they can procure money to
purchase land ?

Those who have families cannot, they squat on a piece of land ; single
men do.
What is the price of labour at that part of the country ?

ay of Clmlc ?

ty Surveyor,
'haleur remain-

!r Restigouchc.
on ?

left farms for

ar.

Jie head of the
id towards the
he Restigouche

ig a cotufortahle

cts of success ?
3, would, in a
an industrious

juntry ?

ould willingly

f means to pro-

licr.

cure money to

)f land ; single

About £3 a montli, exclusive of living, lumberers who nrc the boat
men get £0.

Are the failures of the crops frequent from the severity of ihc scuson ?

Very seldom.

Does the wheat succeed ?

Remarkably well.

Is it as favorable as this part of the Province for ngricultiiiu ?

Nearly so.

As the country becomes better luiown, do you think there v ill be much
improvement in this place ?

I think there will.

Are the fisheries very good ?

As fair as in any part of the world. Tlieri- is cod, salmon, mackerel,
haddock and other fish. The lakes abound with trout.

Is the opposite side of the l?ay of Clmlcur niiicli scltleil ?

It is settled all along the coast. Tlicrc arc some very i;on(l farms, as
nt the south side of the Bay, cond)iniiig agriculture with tisli and lum.
beriti-'.

Would it be better for the parlies if these occupations were scpartcd ?

A good deal better. Men by combining lumbering with other occu-
pations seldom succeed in (litlior. The fishing season comes after plant-
ing, and does not interfere witli agriculture.

What class of settlers are generally in this part of the country ?

Tiiey are generally poor, of mixed countries, principally J'^eiich.

Are they generally peaceably disposed and contented ?

Quite so, and are a loyal body of people.

How is the road throngii this country ?

It is partly good to Bat hurst. There is one making from Bathurst to
Restigouchc.

What means must a settler arriving at Chaleur lake to procure land ]

He must come himself to Fredericton, or employ a person to obtain a
grant for him. It is a tedious and uncertain process, and there would bo
many more settlers if a means was provided for them to settle,

Wiiat e.\pensc must ba incurred before a settler can get his land ?

His trip to Fredericton, and expense of survey, would be i'S. If lots
were surveyed and marked out beforehand, there would be a great deal
more settled.

What number of settlers are there at Bathurst and Dalhonsie ?

About two hundred farms at Bulliurst, and at Dalhousic there arc-
about one hundred and sixty farms.

What number of square rij:j.ed >i.'.s-els trade to this port '

One hundred to llestigouclie, uin! Iiuiulrcd to Bathurst, and six or
seven to Shippey.

Is this the average number ?

About one hundred and liHy 's t'i<'

Vessels of the largest tonnagi,' go (o ..
Is the Bay stopped by tlu; ice \\: \\\
The Bay Ireozcs nearly across .--(S

N. Bkuns.

I ago number t> all the places.
^"ijcho.
ler?
• i'rLiin Mr. Wcclderbnrn )

APPENDIX

,) ;-

EVIDENCE FOR NEW BRUNSWICK.

No. 1.

The Province of New Brunswick contains about 16,500,000 acres, and
is divided into twelve counties, namely, Restigouchc, Gloucester, Nor-
thumberland, Kent, Westmoreland, Saint John, Charlotte, King's,
Queen's, Sunbury, York, and Carleton.

The county of Restigouche has been very lately separated from Glouces*
ter, and it will therefore be as well to include any observations relating to
it under the head Gloucester.

The county of Gloucester, including Restigouche, is bounded — north
by the river Restigouche and the Day of Chaleur, west by the county of
Carleton, south by the county of Northumberland, and east by the Gulf
of St. Lawrence. It had a population of 8,323 in 1834, and contains
about 2,304,000 acres, of which only 476,000 acres are granted, leaving
1,828,000 acres of vacant Crown land, so far as the title is concerned ;
but as this section of the Province is chiefly a lumbering district, much of
the vacant land is appropriated for that purpose, and produces a very
handsome revenue to the Crown.

The old grants of land were generally made to the French Acadians,
and for many years they formed the only inhabitants. Of late years,
however, the British settlers have 'n ' their way there, and the country
is rapidly improving in every respt^^.

The cultivation of the soil is attended to by the poorer classes, who
are settled along the coast, and on tlie different rivers and roads. Some
of the wealthier classes have also fine farms ; but the general character
of the district is decidedly commercial.

The only towns are Bathurst, Dalhousie, and Campbeltown.

The town of Bathurst is the shire town, and is situated on the harbour
of the same name, formed by the Bay of Nespisiguit, info which the
beautiful river of that name falls ; as also the Tellagouche, Middle River,
Little River, and Bass River, besides other smaller streams.

The town is improving very rapidly ; many opulent merchants having
established themselves there. The whole district abounds in rivers and
streams, which appear to be formed by nature to facilitate the removal of
the vast pine forests with which the land is covered.

00 acres, and
icester, Nor-
itte, King's,

rom Glouccs-
ns relating to

anded — north
the county of
t by the Gulf
and contains
nted, leaving
is concerned ;
trict. much of
duces a very

ch Acadians,
r late years,
J the country

classes, who
•oads. Some
ral character

I'n.

1 the harbour
which the
»Iiddle River,

bants having
in rivers and
le removal of

The town of Dalhousie is the shire town of the new county of Resti-
gouche, and distant from Bathurst about fifty-four n)ilos, further up the
Bay of Chnleur, or rather at the mouth or estuary of the river Hesti-
gouche. The town is at present small and stragling, but is prettily situ^
atcd, and the harbour is safe and commodious. The town will, doubtless,
rapidly rise into importance — commercial houses of ihu first character
having branches of tneir business there.

Campbelton is situate on the right bank of the river Ucstigouchc, about
sixteen miles above Dalhousie, opposite to the entrance of the Kempt
road, leading to the river St. Lawrence. It is the property of one indivi-
dual, Mr. Ferguson, and will, in all probability, in the course of a few
years, be a place of some importance.

The waters surrounding these coasts abound with cud, mackerel, her-
ring, and other sea fish, but the fisheries arc not followed up on a large
scale. The poor settlers, however, always look for assistance from that
scource.

The county of Northumberland is bounded on the east by tlic Gulf of
St. Lawrence, on the north by the counties of (iiouccsti-r and Rcsti"
gouche, on the west by the counties of Cark'ton nnd Voik, and on the
south by the counties of Sunbuiy, Queen's, and Ktiif, and comprises
3,200,000 acres, of which 984,000 are granted or located, leaving 2,210,
000 acres still vacant and at the disposal of Government.

This county in 1834 contained a population of 11,170, and which has
since been rapidly increasing. It has hitherto been principully a luui-
berin<; district, but much of the land is well adapted lu farming, moie
particularly on the south-west brunch of Miramichi River, and its tribii.
taries— the Renous, Uarnaby's, and Burllitilomew's Rivers. There is
also much fine land in the parishes of Chutiiam and Glenelg, which
include the Bay de Verte und Black Rivers. The north-west branch of
Miramichi has been noted for its pine forutits. There is much land on
its tributaries adapted to settlement, and many of the selllers have of
late given their attention to agriculture, and a society has been csta.
blished a( Chatham for its promotion. The principal rivers are the
Miramichi and its branches, on which are situate the llonrishing towns
of Nelson, Newcastle and Chatham ; — Newcastle being the shire
town.

The Miramichi is navigable for ships of the largest class to Bobears
point, a distance of twenty-five miles from its mouth. The south west
branch is navigated as high as Boistown, 100 miles, by tow boats and
batteaux, and communicates from thence with the River St. John, by a
portpge. The north west branch is navigated by boats of a similar des..
cription for about twenty-five miles.

The mercantile house of Cunard & Co. have recently erected a steam
saw mill on a very extensive scale, at Chatham, and Messrs. Gilmour
and Rankin have saw mills established near Moorfield, besides many
others in the county, for the manufacture of deals for the I3ritish murkets,
and boards for the West Indies.

The north shore of Miramichi Bay was early settled by Acadian French.
The southern side as well as the banks of Miramichi River is occupied by
a mixed population of British and French origin. The settlements on
the south west branch, extend as far up as Campbell, one of the principal
establishments of the New Brunswick Land Company. The herring and
salmon fishing along the shores of Miramichi Bay, has been much attended

I',

■if

.!!

4fl

to, and has been found very productive. There i» reason to bchevc thnt
minerals exist, though to wimt extent has nut yet been fully ascertained.

Northumberland exports annually a largo quantity of fquared pine
timber to the mother country, receiving in return its nianul'acturrs. A
steam boat plies weekly during the summer months, between Chatham
and Prince Edward's Island.

The trade of this country owes much of its prosperity (o the enterprise
of the mercantile houses of Cunard & Co. and Gilmour & Unnkin, whosa
establishments have already been mentioned in this sketch.

A large revenue is derived from tbo wild lands, the property of tli :
Crown in this country. A regular conveyance for passengers, &c. exists
between the principal towns (viz : Newcastle, Chatham and Nelson) and
the seat of Government.

The county of Kent is bounded on the cast by the Gulf of Saint Law-
rence ; north and west by the county of Northumberliiiid, and south by
the county of Westmoreland, it includes witliin its area, SoO.-lOO acres,
354,000 of which are granted or located, there being ■4.')2,4()() acres re-
maining now vacant.

This country, in 1834, contained a population of r»,03l, since that
time, however, there has been considerable increase. The face of the
country is level, and there is much land of good quality. Its principal
rivers are the Richibucto, Kouchibouguac, and Koucliibouguacis, the
Aldoine, and Cocagnc River, discharging into the Gulf of S'dnt Lawrence.
The rapidly increasing port of Richibucto, the shire town, i^ situated on
the left bank of the beautiful river of the same name, about six miles
from its mouth. It has a very good harbour for vessels of large si/c\
ami exports annually a considerable quantity of timber and deals, several
saw mills having been lately erected for the supply of the latter material,
as well on the Richibucto as in other parts of the country ; that of Messrs.
Raymond and Gnegau, on Kouchibouguac river deserving particular
notice.

The sea coast of this county was settled by French Acadians, who were
attracted liy the extensive salt mart-hes, which skirt the numerous
Lagoons, yielding excellent fodder for cattle. A nund)er of Scotch and
Irish settlers have formed the thriving settlement of New Galloway, about
eight miles south of the Richibucto, and on the post road of conununica-
tion from Halifax to Miiamichi, wliiih inter.sccts the country.

The fishery on the coast is not extensive, though the French settlers
derive much benefit from that source.

Tiiis county is reported to contain minerals, but to what extent, or of
what quality is yet doubtful.

Kent possesses great natural advantages, having good harbours; and
its forests contain great quantities of excellent sjjruce and pine, for
manufacture into deals and boards ; but the want of a direct communica-
tion with the river Saint John, by way of the Grand Lake, and from
thence to the scat of Government, is nuieh felt, and the state of the roads
generally in this diilrict is such, as seriously to retard its settlement.

Weslmorlaiul is hoinul.'!, ncvlh by the county of Kent ; wc;ic(ly bv
Kin;;'s, and Saint .John : suiaiiciiy by the I'uy ul'Finuly and Nova Scotia :
niid castcily hy the J>;:y o! Wile, aiul tiie fc^lraits of Ni-rtlniinbcr^ani.],
dividing; it tVo)n Prince Ld.v.i.i s f-.!;ind. It contains I, •') 1:^,000 acnsi of
wliicli rj:}2,()LH) remains vai-..: i.
Its [)nj;ulalion in li-Jl, ■>■,.; 1 ;,'^■

.J pcraons. Tiiis ccmty is d;cid\;dly

:'i;

I to believe tlint
lly agccrtaincd.
)t iquarcd pine
iiiutactiires. A
wccii Chatlintn

) lliu enterprise
Itankin, wliosa

)ropcrty of tli':
gers, &c. exists
uul Nelson) and

I' of Saint Law-
I, and south hy

SonrlOO acres,
2,401) acres re-

0:JI , since that
riio face of the
lis |)rincipal
liboupiiacis, the
Siint Lawrence.
I, is situated on
about six miles
•is of large size.
1(1 deals, tevenil
: latter material,
; that of Messrs.
rving particular

(lians, who were
t the numerous
er of Scotch and
Galloway, about

of coaimunica-
ntry.

French settlers

hat e.\tcnt, or of

I harbours ; and
c and pine, for
•cot coinmunica-
Lalce, and from
talo of the roads
setUcincnt.
il ; wc;tccly by
ru! Nova Scotia :
>'orlIiiiiiibcr!and,
il-JOUO acres of

intv is d;cid\;div

4f»

of an ai^ricultural character, and there arc many wealthy farmers who own
extensive properties. The timber trade bcin); very limited.

Tiio Pcticoudiac, which flows throu^h it, is n large river, liaving ex-
tensive wild marshes on its banks, and it is navigable for vessels o( con-
siderable burthen to the Rend,— a distance of about thirty five miles
from its discharge into Chcgnecto Hay. an arm of the Bay of Tundy.
The Mcmramcook, and tlic rivers Tantamar, and Au Lac, arc famed for
tlieir extensive marches, which yields abundant crops.

Dorchester is the shire town, and in nituate (ui the la^t bank of Mem-
ramcook river, and on the great road from ILilifax to Fredeiictnn, passing
through the county. It is in a thriving state, but inis little tiailc.

Large quantities of griniUtone of excellent (|ualily uie annuallv exported
from this county to the United States, minerals arc htated to exist. 'I'hu
face of this county is generally level, and is well adapted f )r agricultural
imrsuits. The waters on its extensive sea coasts are stocked with a
variety of fish

The population is pfirtly of French origin, but tlie Biilish arc mucij
more numerals. J ■ is well intersected by excellent roads, and bids fair
to i'lprove rapidly, is n better sy.stein of fan; ing is adopted.

Tl'^; comir>ui;i(:.ii Oil with Frcderieton will be much improved by the
new fine of ir.id, now being opened from the llend ; a distance of ninety
wAe,), nnd n larg?; tract o'-iuperior land will be thus opened for scttlerH,

Tl;c C'cin^, of .<uint Job'.-, lies on the norlbein hbore of the Hay of
I'uuJy, »;'.l u: bounded 0!i the cast by Westmorland : on tlw; north bv
Kd'j'fe aiivl on ,lio w «,l by t*v: c.mnty of T harlotte.
.',cieo './f wijicb 1?SS,,'.'^ arc yet v.uar'..

)n ls.'}4, •ho coi'nly o( S.dnl Jotin rxintained a
ptrHOUH, nc.nc cf 'vhofi are o*' '•'•■'.'rcli or-crm.

The > vc ■ Saiiit Joi i, ni'Uu a •"ourac oi' .ij-wards of 100 miles, here falls
into tl li.vv ( .' Fui'dy. It* ntiV'gatior is partly obstructed by falls, about
one (idle fi'.u! r.A cs^ci.iy, out iter, n In, .cj nud other vessels of moderate
siz*' pwi'S ir 'afety at certain iini«j oi i;.,; lidv, and ascend to Frcderieton,
a c'-stanco oi dglitv-tour mi'i;-. by n&'.r.r, itui not more than sixty-tive by
l.iiul.

Tl\e so'l of this covnly 8 gener.dl', > oor, and stony along the rocky
.>.hori's of tl-e Uh> of Fundy ; theiM i% however, some good bind in the
inltTior, and tb.it on the cabU.ru J). rl ol the county is well adapted for
t.nllivntlon; bot tlia v,ant of B ijoou road to the coast has hitherto preven-
ted its settlcintnc.

The important f.n', rtpid?/ i. .creasing city of St. John is built on (he
jpt't t'ank of tlie river, rl. its discharge into the seu, where there is a noble
hHrbitor, optn at all .-e'^.ojs of the year.

This city, t'.gellicr vilh its suburbs, has a population of about 15
r:r l(),000 iniiubitants, and is a place of rising importance, from its sittia-
tior, whirii cctn mauds the trade of a great portion of the Province. Its
liailj/'k' tiivit v/ith Great Britain and the West Indies is very extensive,
principnlly to the former, and many persons are engaged in ship build-

It contains 4!4,7"J0
population of 20,GGS

Emigrants arrive annually at (his port, and in considerable numbers,
from Great Britain, but the greater part immeiiiately pass on to the
United Slates, attracted by the high rate of wages in that country.

N. Bbuns.

tih ' ' s

;!■•;■

(' >5

I''

Herring are caught ou the shores of llie Bay of Fundy, both for pro-
vincial use and for export to the West Indies.

Through St. John a large quantity of wheat and flour is yearly im-
ported into New Brunswick. It is to be hoped, however, that, ere long,
the Province will raise sufficient for its own consumption.

The county of Charlotte also lies on ihe northerly shore of the Bay of
Fundy, between the county of St. John on tlio east, and the State of
Maine on the west, and is bounded on the north by York, Sunbury,
and Queen's counties. Its population was 15,852 persons in 1834 ; —
The number is now probably much greater.

The whole contents of the county is 783,360 acres ; and 303,360 be-
ing granted or located by the Crown, there remains 480,000 acres still
available. It is watered by the livers Leprce, Mugaguadavic, Digde-
guash, and Saint Croix or Chiputneticook, the last of which form part of
the Province boundary on the west. None of these rivers are navigiv-
ble above the head of the tide, except for small boats and canoes.

Charlotte was settled about the year 1784, by American refugees and
loyalists, and there are no French in i(s population.

Sotne parts of the county are well cultivated, especially in the parishei
of St. James', St. Stephen's, and St. David's. The land yet vacant is
chiefly of a good quality, and the settlement of the country is rapidly
increasing, end although an extensive trade is carried on in the manu-
facture of deals and boards, a majority of its inhabitants are engaged iu
farming, and an agricultural society is established at St. Andrews.

The principal saw mills are at St. Stephens, on the St. Croix, and at
St. George, on the Magaguadavic, both of which places arc in a thriving
condition, and are situate at the heads of the tide way.

St. Andrew's is the shire town, and is prettily built on the left bank of
the fiver St. Croix, where it empties into Passamaquoddy Bay.

The population is about 2,000, and it exports square timber, deals,
and boards, and considerable quantity of flsh are annually sent to the
West Indies.

Grand Manan is an island of about 40,000 acres, lying in the entrance
of the Bay of Fundy, and is a part of this county. Its shores are much
risorted to by fishermen, but the cultivation of the soil has been little
attended to.

Some of the bye-roads of Charlotte are very good, and a direct line of
road has lately been opened through the forest, connecting St. Andrew's
with Fredericton — a distance of seventy miles. The post road from the
city of St. John to the United States also passes through this coun-
ty-
King's County is situate on both sides of the r ver Sr.int John, and is

bounded on the north by Queen's ; on the west bv Charlotte, and on the
eastern side by the county of Westmorland.

Its population was 12,195 persons, in 1834. It contains 849,920
acres ; 244,000 acres of which are yet vacant. This county is watered
by the Kennebecasis, and Hammond Rivers, on the banks of which are
several extensive and flourishing settlements. The greater part of the
vacant land is of good quality, and the county being well intersected by
roads in every direction, the Crown lands are of easy access.

Kennebeccasis and Bellisle Bays, extensive branches of the river Saint
John, are riavigated by schooners, and afford the means of communica.
tion with the sity of St. John, where a ready market is found for all
kinds of country produce.

Kingston is the shire town, and is a place of little importance, as it*

olh for pro-

8 yearly im-
at, ere long,

f the Bay of

the State of

, Sunbury,

in 1834;—

303,360 he.
acres still
ivic, Digde-
form part of
are naviga-
loes.
refugees and

the pari»hei
'et vacant is
y is rapidly
n the mann-
e engaged in
idrews.
>oix, and at
in a ihrivinif

'■ left bank of
ay.

iniber, deals,
sent to the

the entrance
pes are much
is been little

direct line of
St. Andrew's
3ad from the
I this couii..

John, and is
!, and on the

ins 849,920
y is watered
of which are
part of the
itersected by

1 river Saint
communica.
Dund for all

"tance, as its

.•51

situation, which is midway between the Kennebecasis and Bellisle, pre-
vents it from participating in the benefits of trade. This county was
early settled, and much attention is given to agriculture.

Queen's County is bounded south easterly by King's, and north
westerly by Sunbury. It had a population of 7,204 persons, in 1834.

470,000 acres of land in this county yet remains in the hands of the
Crown, and 491,280 acres have been already granted or located, the
whole contents of the county being thus 961,280 acres. The river Saint
John runs nearly through the middle of this county. Salmon river is a
large stream, well timbered with pine and spruce, discharging into the
Grand Lake, a magnificent sheet of water, and the largest lake in the
Province. It is twenty-two miles in length, and about three or four in
breadth, and communicates with the river Saint John on the east, by a
narrow channel called the Jemseg. It is navigated by schooners, and
bteam boats ply ccasionally between Saint John and the coal mines at
the head of the lake.

On the same side of the river Saint John, and about six miles below
the Jemseg, is the entrance of the Washademoak, a beautiful river, more
than a mile in width in many places, for a distance of twenty miles, where
it is much narrower ; thence it is called the New Canaan, from the
settlement of that name which is formed on its banks.

On this river and its branches, there is an extensive tract of vacant
land suitable for settlements.

The river is navigable for schooners, drawing four feet of water to the
head of the tide, a distance of about tliirty miles.

On the banks of the river St. John, Grand Lake and the Washade-
moac Lake, are extensive settlements, and much back land is also
cultivated.

Gagetown is pleasantly situated on the right bank of the river Saint
John, and is the shire town.

Coal has been found is abundance in the neighbourhood of the Washade*
moac and the Grand Lake, and an enterprising company are now actively
engaged in working coal on Salmon river, about four miles above the
head of the Grand Lake.

The county of Sunbury lies on both sides uf the river Saint John,
between the counties of York and Queen's. Its population in 1834 was
only 3,838 persons.

The county contains 782,080 acres, of which 369,080 are granted or
located ; thus leaving 413,000 acres yet vacant.

The Ormocto river runs into the river St. John, from the south. On
its sources the land is good, and there is also a considerable tract of fine
land, fit for settlement, on Little River, which discharges into the French
Lake, whereas well as in the Maquapit Lake, with which it is connected
great quantities of gaspereau and herring are annually caught.
" The north bank of (he river St. John, in the parishes of Mangerville and
Sheffield, is low and Hat. The annual freshets of the river add much to
its fertility, and there arc some wealthy farmers in this district who have
fine stocks of cattle.

Ship building is carried on at the mouth of the Oromocto River, near
which stands the county Court House.

Tiie county of York is divided by the river St. John, into two nearly
ccjiial parts, and is bounded above by Carleton, on the west by the State
ol Maine, und on the south-east by Sunbury,

P'l

I'fK

Its population was 10,478 persons in 1834, and has since been rapidly
on the increase.

York contains 2,201,600 acres, of which 921,600 are granted or loca.
ted; the remaining 1,280,000 are vacant.

The principal rivers are the Nashwaak, the Kesiwick, and the Nacka-
wickae, discharging into the river St. John on the north, and the Pokitk,
Shugamok, and the Eel river on the south.

The south-west branch of the River Miramichi flows easterly, through
the northern part of this counly.

The north branch of the river St. Croix takes its rise in an extensive
chain of lakes which divide this county from the State of Maine.

The Oromocto Lake is a beautiful sheet of water, ten miles in length,
by four in width, and the new line of post road from Fredcricton to St.
Andrew's passes over a fine ridge of land on its western shore.

The New Brunswick Land Company purchased 589,000 acres of land
in this county, from Government, in 1832. The tract is situate north of
of the river St. John, and includes much excellent land. The company
have laid out a site for a town, called Stanley, on the river Nashwaak,
nearly in the centre of their purchase, where they have made large im-
provements, and they have opened several roads for the location of emi-
grants.

The greater part of the Crown land in this county is of a superior
quality, more especially in the southern part, also to the eastward of the
river Nashwaak, and there are several flourishing settlements in the
interior of this county, which have sprung up within a few years.

Fredericton, on the right bank of the river St. John, is the shire town,
and the capital of the Province. It has a population of about 3,000
persons, and derives much benefit from its situation at the head of the
navigation, eighty-four miles from St. John, and the tide ebbs and flows
about nine inches.

Four steam boats ply between this place and St. John, besides a num-
ber of sloops and schooners.

The transportation of merchandise, &c. above Fredericton is carried on
by tow boats; and the river is generally frozen over from the latter part
of November to the middle of April.

The Royal Road extends from Fredericton to the Grand Falls, a dis-
tance of one hundred miles, and when completed will form part of the
great road from Halifax to Quebec. The present route by the river St.
John is one hundred and thirty miles, and very hilly, being on the banks
of the river.

York contains vast forest of pine and spruce, the duties arising from
which add much to the revenue.

No county in the Province holds forth greater inducements to the
emigrant ; and all kinds of produce find a ready market and good
prices.

Carleton is bounded on the west by the Slate of Maine and the territory
now in dispute between Great Britain and the United States, on the
north by the river Restigouche, dividing it from Lower Canada, and on
the south by the county of York In 1834 its population was 9,493
persons.

This county contains about 2,592,000 acres 504,000 are granted or

e been rapidly

anted or loca.

nd the Nacka-
nd the Pokick,

slerly, through

in an extensive
^aine.

nilesin length,

dcriclon to St.

ore.

acres of land

ituate north of

The company

vcr Nashwaak,

made large im-

ocation of emi,

is of a superior
eastward of the
lements in tho
T years.

3 the shire (own,
of about 3,000
the head of the
; ebbs and flows

besides a num-

ton is carried on
m the latter part

md Falls, a dis.
form part of the
jy the river St.
ng on the banks

ies arising from

remcnts to (he
rket atid good

and the territory

Stales, on the

Canada, and on

at ion was 9,493

are granted or

located, and 2,088,000 acres are yet vacant, and in right of the Crown.

Carleton extends on both sides of the river Saint John, for a distance
of upwards of eighty miles.

The rivers Restook, Prcsq'isle and Meduxnakik discharge into tho
Saint John, from the west ; and the Becdquimir, Tobique and Salmon
Rivers, from the east, besides many others of iesa note.

The Hestook is a noble river, having nearly its whole course within
the disputed territory The river Tobique rises in several large lakes,
near the centre of the Province, and runs westerly to the river Saint
John, through immense pine forests, a distance of nearly 110 miles.

The Royal Road which has been already noticed, passes over a lu*
perior tract of country, on which, when the road is completed, many
hundred emigrants might advantageously be settled ; some of the land in
this county is superior to any in (he province, and the fine settlements
of Jackson and Richmond lying between the river Saint John and the
Province Line, are in a thriving condition, and sufficiently prove the fit-
ness of the soil for cultivation.

Woodstock, the shire town, is prettily situate on the right bank of
the river Saint John, sixty miles from Fredericton, and a line of road
has been explored, which will connect it with the sea port town of Saint
Andrews, on the coast of the Bay of Fundy.

Lumbering has been much followed on the numerous waters of this
county, and its forests furnish white and red pine of the finest quality,
but little of the latter discription now remains.

At the Grand Falls of the river Saint John, in the upper part of the
county, saw mills, for the manufacture of deals, fur the British market,
have been lately erected by Henry John Caldwell, Esq. and the Tobique
Mill Company have a similar establishment at the Red Rapids on (he
jivcr Tobique.

Plaster of Paris is found in this county, and iron ore of (he finest
quality has been discovered near Woodstock.

N.BauMi.

■.'mJ? ■•

No. 2.

Crown Land Office, Fredericton, May 2l8t, 183T.

Sir, — I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the
17th instant, stating that you were directed by His Excellency the
Lieutenant Governor to request that I would proceed immediately to carry
into effect the instructions which I have received relative to Crown lands,
and to submit to His Excellency the measures which I purposed to pur-
sue for that purpose.

In reply, I beg to acquaint you, for His Excellency's information, that
I intend, in the first place, to divide the Province into districts, each
defined as nearly as may be by natural boundaries. Such land as should
be fit for settlement in each district I shall recommend to His Excellency
to be laid out into townships, which townships will then, with his sanction,
be offered for sale. I am at present in possession of sufficient information
respecting several tracts, to submit to His Excellency the expediency of
surveying them previous to the sale, which I should wish to have in the
^month of July, thereby enabling the purchaser to commence clearing
immediately.

I shall continue to collect such information as will enable me, from time
to time, to report to His Excellency on various tracts fit for settlement, so
as to keep the survey and sales continually going on.

I have to request that you will represent to His Excellency the ne-
cessity of my being furnished immediately (in order that I may be
enabled to continue my reports) with the following information, viz. : —

Alphabetical lists of all grants subject to the payment of quit rents, and
all particulars respecting the same.

Maps of all the granted lands in the Province, distinguishing each
respectively, on a scale of fifty chains to an inch.

I have further to request that you will move His Excellency to cause
the Attorney General to furnish me with a form of quit rent notice, and
a form of notice and conditions of sale of land.

I have the honour, Sfc.

(Signed,) THOMAS BAILLIE.

Wm. P. Oddell, Esq.
&c. &c. &c.

feilii

m 4 it

Department for Crown Lands and Forests,
Fredericton, April 30tli, 1838.

Ist, 1837.

letter of the
ccellency the
ately to carry
Crown lands,
losed to pur-

rmation, that
istricta, each
nd as should
is Excellency
his sanction,
t information
xpediency of
o have in the
3nce clearing

le, from time
iettlement, so

ency the ne-
at I may be
on, viz. : —
uit rents, and

;uishing each

ncy to cause
t notice, and

BAILLIE.

Sir,

Having been directed by Your Excellency, to suggest for your
consideration any measures which I might consider would improve the

{)resent system of disposing of the waste lands of the Crown, I have the
lonor to state . —

First, with regard to land ; that it appears, since the first of September
last, six hundred and sixty-one petitions have been presented to the Ex-
ecutive Council, eighty-one only of which have been followed up by pay-
ments being made upon them — and of the above number of six hundred
and sixty-one, fifty were exposed to public sale, and only eight pnr-
chased, leaving no less than five hundred and eighty petitions unnoticed
by the applicants. Thus proving beyond a doubt that something must
be wrong, and that the present arrangement does not answer the expec-
tations entertained by its projectors, and that the settlement of the
country is retarded in an alarming degree.

This arises, in my humble opinion, from three causes.

First — ^The delay occasioned by the necessity of submitting to the
Council every petition for a hundred acres of land, however simple the
question must be, where there is only one applicant for a lot which has
been surveyed, the quality consequently well known, and the price of
which has been already established by law.

Secondly — The obligation of pnying the whole amount of purchase
money within fourteen days, allhongh this plan has been recommended
by very high authority, and passed into law by nearly the unanimous
voice of the House of Assembly. lam nevertheless of opinion that the
country is not prepared for it, and that we are not rich enough at present
to admit of it as a general tneasiire. The consequence is, and will be,
to drive those poor men, who are unable to raise the whole amount of
purchase money, to become squatters and take possession of the land
they have applied for, not having the means of removing from the neigh-
bourhood of their relatives, in which they generally congregate and
there apply for a lot for themselves.

The third is, the v^ant of surveys to connect the bye-roads ; for nothing
I consider is moreintimately connected with the settlement of the country
than the bye-roads throughout the Province, upon which thousands of
pounds are annually expended; of these bye-roads little or no informa-
tion is possessed by the Executive, and therefore no (iniforin system
can be applied, so as to render a connection of them eligible for the
location of emigrants, and new settlers. These bye-roads are frequently
the best settled parts of the country, occupied by a hardy and indus-
trious class of people, whose sons and relatives are those who princi-
pally now petition for land ; yet for want of a proper connection so as to
open up the best lands for settlement, these poor people continue to
apply for isolate lots to be surveyed for them, thus perpetuating a mode

J- 1

1 " ■

ns'.

!J ■■

of surveying, which will some tlay be the hitler curse to llie coiiritrv,
cngen(lci'in<>' strife and luw sui(s amongst neiglibours, in orJcr to dotcr.
mine hotindarics, which in all probability have never been started from
known and governing points, tor were such small lots as one hundred
acres to be surveyed for a poor man, it is scarcely to be supposed that
he can alVord to pay the surveyor for searching out accnriilely the boun-
daries of the nearest grant, but will generally shew to him some (reo
which he declares to be an angle of some particular grant, and which,
in all probiibiiity the surveyor will adopt, knowing bis employer's in-
ability to pay him for further search. This work is therefore generally
done in such a manner as to leave me without any evidence of its incor-
rectness, and tiic error is not discovered till the mischief is done, and
then the bbimc is heaped upon the Crown Land Office, when in fact the
fault is alone chargeable against the system.

This we know used to be the case when individuals were in the habit
of paying the surveyors for isolated surveys, and thence have arisen those
painful and conflicting claims of persons who had taken up land in the
neighbourhood of each other, where subsequent more correct and connected
surveys and compilations have discovered one tract to have been already
under grant, previous to the other patent issuing; this is not one solitary
case, but is of so frequent occurrence as already to be an evil of some magni-
tude. To remedy this, therefore, I should propose that no isolated surveys
should, on any account be made, but in order to provide lands for settle-
ment in all directions, a survey should be made of every bye-road upon
which money has been granted the last session of the Legislature, and
that when the returns are made, a skeleton map on a large scale should
be prepared on which every great road and bye-road should be correctly
exhibited, it will then be apparent on which of the bye-roads it would be
desirable to connect, so as to open up the country, for the purpose of
affording lands for settlement in every part of the Province, without re-
sorting to the present most pernicious mode of surveying detached lots.

This plan if followed up, will also give many of the bye-roads a supe-
rior character to that which they now bear. It has been too much the
practice to allow the bye roads to be opened from some main road for a
certain distance through the wilderness, without any apparent ulterior
object for continuing it further than tlie huts of a few straggling settlers,
thereby establishing a mere cul-de-sac.

My plan is to connect as many of these bye-roads as possible, and to
survey land on both sides into lots of one hundred acres each, not so
narrow and so long as to deter settlers from taking up the second and
third tiers, but so square as to make the distance to the rear lots, a
matter of little consequence, the lots should therefore be twenty chains
by fifty.

The present practice of submitting to Council, every petition for a
small lot of land, wherein ninety-nine cases out of one hundred tiiere is
really nothing to consider, is, in my humble opinion, an unnecessary
delay to the applicant and useless trouble to the Lieutenant Governor
and Council. I should therefore recommend that Your Excellency should
approve of the scale of any surveyed land not exceeding two hundred
acres, at such established price as may be determined upon, and that the
purchaser should be allowed to pay by four annual instalments as hereto-
fore, paying one down and giving a bond for the remainder. That the
grant should issue as soon after as possible. That a list oi all purchases

he con II try,
cr to delei'-
staiteil from
one liundrod
iposed (hut
y the hduii-
I some (ree
and wliich,
iiploycr'8 ill-
re generally
of its incor-
s done, am]
1 in fact thu

in the habit
arisen those
land in the
iiid connected
been already
one solitary
some niayiii-
ilated surveys
ids for settlc-
ye-roau upon
islature, and
scale should
be correctly
it would be
ie purpose of
, without re-
ached lots,
roads a supe-
too much the
lin road for a
~.rent ulterior
gling settlers,

ssible, and to
;ach, not so
! second and
rear lots, a
(venty chains

letition for a
dred there is

unnecessary
mt Governor
illency should
two hundred

and that the
its as hereto-
r. That the
dl purchases

and payments should be transmitted yearly or oftcner to my Deputy in
each district, so that be should not only kno(7 who had a right to settle
upon Crown lands, but also to be able to give information to any per«iou
enquiring as to whether any settler had paid for his land or if not, how
much he owed upon it, and for such information he should be allowed n
certain fee. No evil surely could arise out of such a measure, because
the annual returns to the Legislature would enable any member to re-
present it, did it exist in the remotest degree.

The Deputy would also have a plan of all the surveyed lands in his
district, and be enabled to inform the public as to the vacancy of any land
in those surveyed tracts. This would save many a poor man a long and
fruitless journey to Fredericton, and would, I am convinced, be highly
satisfactory to all classes of the community.

It has been asserted, that by allowing the poor man to purchase hind
by instalments, you erect that class of persons which ought to exi'it ris
labourers into land holders, and thus make the price of labour high ; I
deny that such is the effect produced in this country, where labour, except
in very large towns, is not in sufficient demnnd to maintain a separate class
of persons as labourers ; on the contrary, it is in the most thickly settled
parts of the country, where the poor landholder manages to spare a por-
tion of his time in order to convert it into money, thiit labour is the most
abundant, and consequently the cheapest It must be therefore out of
the abundance of small landholders that labour will, for many years to
come, be supplied to the country.

Be that as it may, however, it is very apparent, that by eaforciiig
ready payments for land in this country, you are either driving the settlers
from the Province, or encouraging them to become squatters ; knowing,
as they do, that whatever measures may be enforced against them, their
condition can scarcely be made worse, and that no prosecution can be so
general as to include them all ; every one therefore hopes that he may
escape the severity of the law, and if not, that he can bring his case
before a British Governor, by petition, and in the mean time he is pro-
viding a shelter and subsistence for his family, which, under almost any
circumstances, he considers himself justified in doing.

The number of squatters, therefore, I have reason to believe, still
goes on increasing, each believing that some more favourable or lenient
measures will yet be adopted towards them.

With respect to the present mode of disposing of Crown timber, little
can be said in its praise, because it is making that complicated which
might be so simple. In many respects the following auction system
would be desirable, but as there is a strong feeling against the plan of
selling timber at auction, I will also suggest a plan of disposing of the
timber at private sale.

I shoirld reconimeiul all timber and hiMiber (exce|)t for mill owners
on the streams whore the mill is situated) should be sold at public aue-
iidh; to he held at the Crown Lnnd Office, every second week, commenc-
ing on Monday, and the highest bidder should be the purcha>;cr; — that
Iweiily-livo per cent on the quantity sold should be paid down, and
lioiids given to pay the balance on or before the 24lli of June following,
without interest, but interc^t to be exacted nfler that perioil, until the
bond should be paid, which ought not to exceed the 1st of Novcndicr.
This mode of selling the timber every foilnighl would put it in the power

V
N. Bruns.

K-i.

of every person who midit wish to cut more than he had bought on any
lot, again to buv such additional quantity as he migiil find it advisable to
make. No sale of limber should, however, be made between the 1st of
March and the Ist of May, in each and every year, nor should any
application, or description of berth, bo received after the 24th of
February, to be sold the 1st of March, nor before the 24th of March, to
be sold on the Ist of May.

The plan for disposing of Crown timber by private sale is as follows :
That petitions should be presented at the Crown Land Office, as at pre-
sent, but instead of their going before your Excellency in Council, — and
thereby consuming much valuable time, — the Commissioner of Crown
Lands should, where there is no collisipn in the applications, prepare the
licenses, and transmit them, as at present, to your Excellency for signa-
ture. In the event of there being two or more applicants for the same
berth, it should, after due notice, be sold at public auction. That
twenty-five per cent of the amount of the license money should be paid
prior to the issuing of the license, or rather should be paid at the time
that the ground is declared vacant, and a bond for the balance payable
on the 24th of June following the season in which the timber is to be
cut, and after that date the bond should bear interest until paid, which
should in no case exceed the 1st of November.

In order to deter persons from applying for small quantities, with the
intention of cutting much more than the license expresses, all excesses of
timber, besides being liable to seizure, should invariably, if not applied
for by the 24lh of February, be charged wilh at least sixpence per ton
extra ; because it is always so easy to apply under the above favourable
conditions, and this would tend greatly to assist the Deputies in muking
the necessary inspections, and put the Crown and the lumberer upon
the fairest grounds of mutual defence and security.

(

I have the honour to be,
Sir.

Your most obedient servant.

(Signed,)

THOMAS BAILLIE,
C Ci L.

light on any
ladvisablc to
]n the 1st of
(should any
he 24th of
fr March, tu

as follows :

:c, as at pre-

luncil, — and

Ir of Crown

|, prepare the

!y for signa-

for the same

Jction. Tliat

puld be paid

at the lime

nee paynblo

iber is to be

paid, which

ies, with the
I excesses of
f not applied
)ence per ton
re favourable
:a in making

nberer

vant.

upon

No. 3.

Table shewing the contents in Acres, of each County of the Province of
New Brunswick, the extent which has been granted or located by
the Crown, and the extent yet remaining vacant, and at the disposal
of Government, in each.

Granted

Vacant.

and
located.

Contents.

CSIoucester, includ

ng the newly erected

County of Risti

gouche.

1828000

476000 2304000

Northumberland,

• « • • • •

2216000

9840001 3200000

Kent,

• • • •

552400

354000 806400

Westmoreland,

• ■ ■ •

532000

780000 1312000

Saint John, . .

■ • • •

126000

288720; 414720

Charlotte,

• • • •

480000

303360

783360

King's,

• • > •

244000

605920

849920

Queen's

• • ■ •

470000

491280

96 1280

Sunbury,

• • • •

413000

369080

782080

Vork,

> • • •

1280000

921600

2201600

Carleton,

• • • •

Totals

2088000

504000

2502000

10129400

60779GO|l6207360

aLLIE,
C. C. L.

No. 4.

! ■•

^^^\:

Statement of amount received on sale of land in each year from the Ist
JuIyi 1827, to the 5lh September! 1838, showing the number of acres
sold, and amount received in each year, viz. : —

Date.

Number of Acres.

£ S

Half year ending

3lsl

December,

1827

10888

435 4

Do do

1828

103018

510 12

Do do

1829

2850

402 15

Do do

1830

37722

2888 n

Do do

1831

01100

3907 7

Do do

1832

62700

5980 12

Do do

1833

90840

9855 5

Do do

1834

42122

5858 9

Do do

1835

251374

26649 10

Do do

1836

164196

30450 7

Do do

1837

49229

i:)ol5

Do to 5th Septr.

1838

21848^

3343 10

Note.— In addil

ion to

(lie above a sale of 500,

000 acres to the

New

•

Brunswick Land

Com-

Danv ill 1834'. . . ',

500000

32000

t • • •

Total

I3{)7917i

£137797 7

Department for Crown LdikIs ant! FDrrnts,
Fredcricton, N. 13. O. I. 3itl, 1838.

'#4

\r from

the iHt

lumber of acres

35 4

10 12

02 IT)

88 fi

07 7

80 12

;{

5 5 f)

:)8 y

4U 10

50 7

1.5 G

43 10

07 7 II

No. o.

Statement of Land sold ill lots of 1000 acrrs and upwards, bhowinu; to
wlioin sold, date of sale, county, amount of sale, and price per acre,
from commencement of tlifl sale system in 1827.

I'urcluiscr.

Date.

County.

fJeorge WliitaUcr
William Hughson
.loliii Campbell
.f. W. Joiiett
Messrs. Desbarrcts
Horatio N. Hill
George M. Porter
James Porter
ilohn Porter
.Joseph Porter
William Porter
John Hill
Samuel Hill
George S. Hill
Wm. I.d Libby
(iicorge Lindsay
Wm. E. M'Mlistei
James Allanshaw
M. M. Nnodurass
L S. Campbell
H. M. Campbell
II. P. Fleetwood
Jno. IVPAIIister,
Nincan Lindsay
James Rait

Ditto
Gideon Knight
.lames V^ernon
Duncan Barber
Lowdhain & Hurii.
.lames Douglas [son
Henry Seely
Duncan Uarber

Ditto
C C. Bradbury
S. P. Frink
John Marks
James Campbell
Peter Stuhbs
David P. Pinner

N, HuKNS.

Nov. IH31

King's

Jan. 1832

July do

York

Aug. do

Nov. do

Westmore

May, 1 833

York

June do

Aug. do

Charlotte

Carleton

Oct. do

Dec. do

York

Feb. 1831

Charlotte

April do

June do

York

\ov. do

Carlctoii

July, 18:io

York

" do

Charlotte

Aug do

York

land

rice

Amount

)cr

Acre.

acres

£108

lOsO

100

1000

li)0

1000

100

*'i'

1200

1!)

2 Kiiiut ha

3()(J()

210

O'.i

I2U0

180

1200

210

1200

210

1200

210

1200

180

12(10

210

1200

180

1200

270

1200

280

1200

178

IIJ-

1200

322

1900

437

2500

lOo

1 100

182

1214

197

1310

300

()

2000

400

1000

885

2000

210

1200

300

ISOO

loo

1000

208

1390

329

1000

330

2200

2000

sooo

030

2800

1000

2000

1281

2500

aOI2

8000

18.50

jOOO

2007

5^00

1575

0000

1850

-1000

1087

3000

rice"

;,""

PlllcluiS(T.

Dale.

Comity.

Amount.

per

•5
g

ire.

Acres

Beverley Uol»in>oii

An-;. 18;$:)

York

I!)29

!) .")

3500

Cniiiiiiins KobiiiKoi'

420

IGOO

Joscpliiis iNliKirc

(b>

'J(i-2.J

loooo

Thomas E. I'cilcy

Sept. tin

d.>

tCarlelon, )
< (^uc'en'«, ^
( York, >

1 .•) 10

i'jGU

F. E. Ikckwilh

Oct. do

1178

4450

NVm. J. ncilell

Nov. do

St. John

;vio

2500

Niiicaii Limbiiy

i\)

York

4!).')0

12000

Duncan IJaiher

Doc. do

Charlotte

,3000

10000

James Campbell

Yi.rk

ii'lC,

1000

A. C. Stairitt

38G

1000

Joscpli C\ Al It'll

•2800

8000

Moses H. I'liilcv

St. Jdhn

8800

.">

32000

G. F. S. IkitoM

Jan. I83fi

Carle(on

2,jOOO

50000

Harris liatcli

Charlotte

17o

1000

JuMiCH Albce

Vofk

502

1800

Alexr. Campbell

March <l<i

1087

3000

James Rait

Glosl.r

2.')l)

1280

Ditto

York

112

1000

Beverley Hobiiisoii

.lo

1708

0800

Samut'l Abbott

May do

Cliarlolto

3000

()

1 0000

Clirisr. Murray

June do

York

1.J0O

5000

\Vm. J. Bctlcll

July I83(i

5475

18000

James Fraser

Charlotte

1375

5000

Jnscpli N. Clark

Sciit do

York

!)37

3000

James Rait

Charlotte

1.50

1000

James Millicaii

Dec. do

St. John

300

1000

Geo. D. Robinson

300

1000

D. L. Robinson

300

1000

W. J. Bedell

York

1429

8'G

4700

Joseph Walton

Jan. 1837

Charlotte

500

2000

John Hill

Fcby. do

York

1500

4800

Department for Crown Lands and Forests,
Fredericton, October 3rd, 1838.

■in .

I'llCC

1 ;

|)cr

Acre.

, (1.

A«;r('s

;}■>()(»

t'iOU

l(H)()(»

ll»(iU

3^ j 44:)0

'2')0{)

12000

lOOOO

1000

HOOO

.'12000

■)0000

1000

1800

3000

1280

1 000

0800

loooo

5000

18000

.-)000

3000

1000

I 1

4700

2000

4S0O

OS
CO

■-1

c/i O

B c

U) S

T3"

( — * — .« ^

> H H PO D O i^ O

' *2 ^ o ' • *

'^s

B" rt

5
Pi

=:td3

r-^ Cfl p en ^ CT -^ — WJ S

r^ r. 3 -

ft>

D Ul

to*
O

S P P 3 ?

ui V QO O en
O O K) O O
O O o< O O

K) — ^ 00 Cn
0\ CJiOCCOOOOCOS
tn tiCCCCOCOOOP

7",

(^
s-

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-J

o
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u i

ih.-

q? ^

B S

p o

a. 3

"1 s.

<M OJ CX3 4- W Ui

D •

'^ o

"-J c

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H-£?

—

§£.

— — Cl — —

p s:

p o

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" n

5 **

.71 O

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c c

>— C5 Id 1^ •—

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3

No. T.

«' ^!

Li^l of grants and leases which have been given in New Brunswick of
mines and minerals, with the conditions and rb:3trictions on whicii the
same have issued ;—

and Nova Scotia
within their pur«

by .ri:

1. — A grant forever to the New Brunswick
Land Company, of all the mines and minerals
chases.

2 — William Stevens, a lease for fifty years, from the I7th October,

1837, of mines and minerals in the county of Gloucester, subject to the
following' conditions and restrictions : —

That the lessee shall have five years to explore and select his mining
ground, and open any shaft or shafts ; that after (he expiration of the said
iive years the purchaser will be confined to such mines only as lie may
have opened and worked, and shall then have in operation ; and should
it hup[>en that during the said term of fifty years any mine should be
unworked for the space of twelve consecutive moiUhs, the said mine so
remaining unworked shall revert to the Crown, and that a per centuge
equal to one twentieth of the produce of the mine or mines to be opened
and worked under the authority of the said lease be exacted from and
paid by the lessee after the expiration of ten years, from the date of the
sale or lease.

It is to be understood that the radius of one mile round any shaft shall
constitute a mine.

3. — Richard R. Kctchiim, a lease for fifty years from 18^8, of
mines and minerals in the parish of Waterficld, county of Carleton,
subject to the same conditions and restrictions as the lease to William
Stevens.

4 — Moses H. Perlcy, a lease for fifty years, from the IGth of July,

1838, of mines and minerals in the parish of Wcslfield, King's county,
and parish of Lancaster, St. John county, subject to the same conditions
and restrictions as the lease of William Stevens.

5. — John Alexander and Alfred Randall, a lease for fifty years, from
the 7lh of December, 1837, of mines and minerals in the parish of
Saint Martin's, county of Saint John, subject to the following conditions
and restrictions : —

That the lessee shall have two years to explore and select their
mining ground, and open any shaft or shafts. That after the ex-
piration of the said two years, the lessees will be confined to such
mines only as they may have opened and worked, and shall then
have in operation. And should it happen that during the said term
of fifty years any mine should not be worked for the space of
twelve consecutive months the said mine so remaining unworked
shall revert to the Crown, and that a per centage equal to one twen-
tieth of the produce of the mine or mines to be opened and worked
under the authority of the said lease, be exacted from and paid by
the lessees after the expiration of four years from the dale of the sale
or lease.

It is to be understood that the radius of one mile round any shaft shall
constitute a mine.

Ml-

Brunswick of
on wliicli the

Nova Scotia
1 tlioir pur-

7tli October,
subject to the

ct his milling;
ion of the said
!y as lie may
; and should
ic should be
said mine so
a per centage
to be opened
ted from and
e date of the

ny shaft shall

mi ]838, of
of Carletoii,
3 to William

Gth of July,
ng's county,
le conditions

' years, from
he jiarish of
S conditions

select their
fter the ex-
ncd to such
i shall then
c said term
lie space of
; un worked
o one twen-
and worked
nd paid by
3 of the sale

No. 8.

Statement of Duties on Timber and Lumber, showing the quantities and
amount of duty in each year, from September 30tli, 1824, to Septem-
ber 5th, 1838, viz:—

Dale.

Timber.
Tons

Ldmber.
Sup. ft. perM.

Amount.

To December 31st,

1824

48948

£2447

1825

244100

12205

1826

97238

4861

1827

126509

6325

1828

170041

8502

1829

136395

4413

9717

1830

168939

7301

9308

1831

144724

9915

8748

1832

122882

14783

8646

1833

88144

12243

8945

1834

153914

16670

15052

1835

130074

14824

15293

1836

96387

12825

16173

1837

40190

6977

10324

To September 5th,

1838
imber. .

34847

8565

9481

What quantity of t

1803332

Lumber. .

108516

146035

Note.— From 1824 to 1830, the duties were Is per ton on timber.

3s per M feet of lumber.
1830 to 1834 . . Is 3d per ton on timber.

3s 6d per M feet of lumber
1834 to 1838 . . 2s per ton on timber.

38 6d per M feet of lumber

Department for Orown Lands and Forests,
Fredericton, N. B. October 3rd, 1833.

ly shaft i-hall

'■ Ii

m''\.

■i ■

111 ''■

No. 9.

Indoor Establishment.

Deputy Commissioner
Accountant
Assistant do.
Chief Draftsman
Assistant do.
Do. do.
Messenger

Total

Contingent Clerk hire.

Two assistant Draftsmen, at £60 each,
Two Compilers, £200 each,

Grand total

Crown Land Office,
Fredericton, September 27th, 1838.

No. 10.

£346 3

200

180

130

33 17

£1010

£120

400

£520

£1.530

Schedule of Liands granted for the use of the Established Church of
England — New Brunswick : —

County.

Acres.

York

4242i

Garletoii

2882

Gloucester . .

1627

Northumberland . .

4831

Kent

720

Weslmoreianii

4831

King's

7551

Qtieuii's

1917

Sunbury

1294

St. Joliii

1928

Chariolte

Total acivs ijrantiMl

G140f

nf)445J-

4.,

Church of

Acres.

4242i

2882
1627
4831
720
4831
7551
1917
1294
1928
6140f

364451

Schedule of Lands reserved for the use of the Established Church of
England — New Brunswick : —

Schedule of Lands granted for the use of the Established Church of
Scotland — New Brunswick : —

County.

Acres.

Saint John

• • * .

1500

York

. . . . • 1

1500

Northumberland

207G

Kent

. . • • . .

500

Carlefon

. « . • • •

500

Charlotle

It . • . .

500

Gloucester

granted

1000

Total acres

7576

No Lands reserved for the Church of Scotland.

Schedule of Lt.nds granted for the use of the Church of Rome— New

Brunswick : —

County.

Acres.

Gloucester
Kent

• • • •

• •

100
12

Total acres granted

112

No Land reserved for the Church of Rome.

N. Bruns.

County.

Acres.

Gloucester
Charlotte

2
71i

Total acres reserved

73i

w i

Schedule of Church Lands — New Brunswick

3'^i

iUn

Church of England — Granted
. . . . Reserved

Church of Scotland — Granted
Church of Rome — Granted

Total

36445^ acres
73i "
7576 •'
112 •«

4420G| acres

No. 11.

Schedule of Lands granted for educational purposes — New Brunswick : —

County.

Acres.

Charlotte

Gloucester

Saint John

320i

King's

2647

Queen's

236

Sunbury

500

York ..

6379i

Northumberland

300

Westmoreland

1000

Total acres granted

11430

Schedule of Tiands reserved for educational purposes— New Brunswick : —

Charlotte

• • • •

460

Saint John . .

• • • •

200

King's

• • • •

1100

Queen's

• • * •

Sunbury

t • • •

458

York

• • • •

220

Westmoreland

• •

355

Gloucester . .

• '■ • •

Total acres reservr'I

28]^

Liiii*,

I45i acres

73 J "
7576 «'

112 "

120G| acres

Brunswick : —
Acres.

47
Oi
320*
2647
236
500
6379J
300
1000

11430 ""

Brunswick : —

460

200

1100

458

220

355

2813i

urj

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Septembe
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chase o
acres hav
lowed up
ments.

•

^ -a t <u

whic
implie
ted fc
of th

E
u

■5

(U CJ tlJ M

ing numb
ve been
th are fori
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•v

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4) 5 »; u

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s, and
as 5s

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have
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ment
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(/i u

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t- 'H

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5,846
refus
rvey.

of 2
been
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chase

have

svant

B
QJ

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1— (

refused t
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ous other

■ri ui

rm u

1 b

s .0

s •

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►3 >,

E^=«

tof the

ad read

tent re
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tlement.

Acres.

3886&

c n

>< 60-

e exte
eyed

U.S 5^

■a -o s

0) e

.£ >

Expense incui
for surveys
timber inspec

mber, t
ing sur

i Ti

:main

a Z

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Lan

riz :-

(4- «

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n til
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t

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and
Tim

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Timber and I
nd ber.
Total amoun
! ceived.

M -^

ived, due,
if Land and
uary, 1830

<+< ^

£134290
95273

£107765
8736

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PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND.

John Wcndior Le Lacheur, Esquire.

I low loDg have you resided in the Island of Prince Edward Island ?

Ever since May, 180G,

Can you describe llic system originally pursued in granting land in
(lint Island ?

The whole Island was divided into sixty-seven townships, containing
about 20,000 acres each, the whole of which were granted in one day to
diilurcnt individuals, in lots of from a whole to a quarter township, sub-
Ject to the payment of a quit rent of from 2s to 6s Sterling per 100 acres,
and to the obligation of settling the land granted within ten years from
the dale of the grant with foreign Protestant settlers, in proportion of
one person to every two hundred acres.

Are you aware it their conditions were fulfilled to any and to what
extent ;'

They were not fulfilled in a single instance, nor does any atlcni|it
appear to have been made to fulfil them, as not one foreign Protestant
was introduced by any of the gnnrantecs.

Do you know what quantity of the land thus granted now rcmains-in
the liunds of the original grantees, or their descendants ?

I am not aware ; but 1 believe that there are not more than three of
the present proprietors who have not acquired their land by purchase.
The sums for which (he land was disposed of by the original grantees
was in most cases exceedingly small, not more in many cases than from
£10 to £40 per township of 20^000 acres. Some of the largest pro|)ri-
ctors purchased at this rate.

Have any steps been taken at any time to enforce the performance of
the conditions upon which these grants were originally made?

In the year 1799, or thereabouts, the House of Assembly represented
the evils which had been felt in consequence of the neglect of (he pro-
prietors to settle their grants, according to the conditions imposed upon
thrin, and prayed that a Court of Escheats might be established. This
request appears by a message from General Fanning, the then Governor
of this Island, (o the House of Assembly, lo have been favourably re-
ceived by the Governmcut at home, and in the year 1803, a bill foi-
establishiug a Court of Escheats passed the House of Assembly and the
Legislative Council, and received the assent of the Governor. It wa*
however disallowed by the Home Government, in consequence of repre-
sentations from the proprietors^ who being an united and inlluentiai

Prince Ed. Island. A

body, residing for the most part in England, were able to obtain a rever-
sal of the consent which had been previously given by the Home Govern,
ment. At the same time the proceedings for the recovery of the quit
rents, which had been commenced by (lie public law otiicers of (he
place, and several of Avhich had been prosecuted (o judgment, were Inid
by in consequence of this. The House of Assembly in 180') passed cer-
tain resolutions cxpressivo of (heir feelings on the subject, and at the end
of 18UG introduced a new bill for the same purpose, In 1818, during
the administration of Governor Smith, a Court of Escheat wan appointee),
and two townships, No. 15 and 55, were forfeited. Immediately sub-
sequent to this, however, the proprietors ot home had sutlicicnt influence
with the imperial Government to induce the Ministers to issue a pro-
clamation in the name of the Prince Regent, relinquishing all cluinis tu
forfeiture on account of any past violation of the conditions, and giving
ten years further for the settlement of the land, at the same time allow-
ing the introduction of British subjects in (he place of fori'igners. I
wish (o state here, before proceeding to relate the subsequent steps in
reference to these grants, that the proprietors succeeded by false repre-
sentations, as to (he conduct and intentions of Governor Smith, in induc-
ing a majority of the population to petition for his removal, ulthonghtlic
course he had pursued was, as appears to me, in all respects calculated
to promote the true interests of the colony.

Did the proprietors comply with the new conditions thus imposed upon
them ?

I believe in not an instance. In the year 1827, when tlie ten years
from 181G, granted by the proclamation expired, there was not, to my
knowledge, a single township on the Island which contained the requisite
number of settlers.

Have any steps been taken subsequently to enforce the fulfilment of
these conditions^ or to forfeit the land for the non fulfdment ?

Every House of Assembly since that period has I believe made repre-
sentations on the subject, though hitherto without effect. In 1832, an
Act " for encouraging the settlement and improvement of lands in this
Island, and to regulate the proceedings of the Court of Escheats therein,"
was passed by the Legislative Council, and received the assent of the
House of Assembly and the Governor. It was however reserved by the
former for the approval of the Home Government, and on its arrival in
England, the representations of the |>roprietors were again sufficiently
powerful to overbear the united voice of the whole Legislature of the Pro-
vince, and the Act was accordingly disallowed.

Do you know upon what grounds this disallowance was justified ?

It appears by a dispatch from Lord Goderich, dated the 1st August,
1832, tliat the reasons assigned for refusing the consent of His Majesty
to the Bill, are expressed in the following words, " that some proprietors
have sent out more than the number of persons which would have settled
their property in the prescribed pi ^portions, but that the persons have
subsequently changed their residence to other lands. Those proprietors
would forfeit their grants under the mode of proceeding contem|)lated by
the Assembly. Other proprietors on the contrary, without making any
effort for the fulfilment of the conditions unpaid on them, find their lands
settled in the prescribed proportion by the spontaneous assent of imlc-
pendant emigrants. These proprietors escape under the proceedings
contemplated by the Assembly."

Jtain a revcr-
ome Govern.
V of the quit
licers of llio
MJl, were laid
') passed cor.
ndot tlio end
1818, (lurinif
as appointc(),
ndiatcly sub-
ient in/luciicc
ssuc u pro-
all flainis tu
uiid Jiiviiig
u lime allou-.
bri'iyncrs. I
iH'iit steps ill
y fiilsc rcpre-
illi, ill indue*
ultlioti<>|it!ie
cts culculiited

!m|)03ed upon

tlie ten years
IS not, to my

I the requisite

fulfilment of

made repre.

In 18.3y, an

lands in this
eats therein,"
assent of the
served by the
its arrival in

II suflieicntly
3 of the Pro-

ititied ?
Ut August,

His Majesty
le proprietors
I have settled
lersons have
i proprietors
emplated by

making any
d their lands
ient ofinde-

procecdings

Ilaveyoa any means of knowing to what extent this statement is true,
80 far 08 relates to the bringing out of settlers at the expense of any of
the grantees f

I do not imagine that any proprietor has brought out at his own ex*
pensc, a sufficient number of settlers to settle his lands in the proportions
prescribed by the original grant, nor in fact that there are any of the
persons so allcdged to have been brought out, who did not repay the cost
of their passage in money, or money's worth. I ground this opinion
upon the uncontradicted statements to this cfl'ect, which have appeared
in the public papers of the Island, and upon conversations which 1 have
had w'th the majority of the persons alluded to. With regard to the
statement that persons so brought out, have left the land of the proprietor
who conducted their emigration, I believe that iii the case which I
presume to have been particularly referred to by Lord Ciodcritli, the emi-
grants only left the land upon which they were originally settled, when
compelled to do so by the extreme of want, and when they found that
none of the representations on the faith of which they had been induced
to emigrate would be fulfiled.

Were there any natural disadvantages of soil or position in the lands
upon which these settlers were placed, which might have had an intiu-
eiice in inducing them to leave it ?

I have passed through the dintriet in question, and believe that it is
equal in natural advantages to other parts of the Uland. There is how-
ever a very great want of roads and bridges, and the settlers were there-
fore placed in disadvantageous circumstances, so far as their means of
communication with the more settled districts.

Might not this have been one cause why the individuals in question
should have left the lands upon which they were |)laced .'

It is possible that it might be so, because upon the lands of another
proprietor which are not superior in natural advantages, but more favour-
ably placed as regards markets and roads, the majority of the .settlers
have remained.

Of the settlers who, as you state left the lands upon which they were
located, did the majority settle upon the lands of other proprietors ia the
Island, or what became of them (

The majority remained in the Island upon the lands of other proprie-
tors, but many were discouraged upon the tenure, upon which alone
they could obtain land, and being pos'csed of sufficient means for the
purpose, emigrated to some other of tiic North American Colonies or to
the United States.

But you suppose that almost in any instance the emigrants to Prince
Edward Island, whether coming out under the auspices of a proprietor
or not, defrayed the expense of their passage out of their own funds, or
repaid it to the proprietor ?

I have no doubt that such has been the fact.

So that in your opinion the argument of Lord Goderich founded upon
the assumed expense incurred by individual proprietors for the purpose of
settling their property, according to the terms of the grant is entirely
devoid of foundation in fact ?

1 believe so.

Will you proceed with your account of the steps which have been taken
with regard to those grants ?

\ m

Iff

IMIJI

flu -.

The same dispatch of Lord Godcrich contained the suggestionB of a
tax upon lands, ns being useful, " by compelling the proprietors of un-
cultivated lands, citlier to improve tliem.or to sell them nt the price which
they could bring in their present condition." Mr. Secretary Stanley also
recommended a tax "in the nature of a penal assignment upon non-
cultivation," as being both " just and politic," and Lord Glcneig recom.
mended the same course, and enclosed a copy of the Act of tlio Upper
Canada Legislature for the same purpose, as a guide to the Legislative
Assembly uf our Province, in framini>; their Act. The Assembly how-
ever contiuned to view this as an inade(|uate and unsatisfactory remedy
for the evils complained of, and in I83,'>, they again passed an address,

(inlying for the establishment of a Court of Escheats, which address,
lowever. Sir William Aulas Young, the then Governor, neglected to
forward to England. This neglect was only discovered after his death,
when, upon the House of Assembly enquiring whether there was any
and what reply, they were informed that the address still remained in
the Government Mouse. It was however forwarded by Mr. President
Wright, together with another address, also praying for the establiiili.
ment of a Court of Escheats, which it was decided by a majority of one in
the House of Assembly should be substituted for it. Both addrcsHCS were
however forwarded, but Lord Glenclg, in his reply, positively refused to
sanction the establishment of any Court of Escheats. The Ausenibly
upon the receipt of this, seeing the hopelessness, for the present, of
attempting to obtain the only measure, which, as they conceived was ade-
quate to remedy the evils complained of, ])a8sed an Act imposing a lux
of four shillings per 100 acres, or less than one halfpenny an acre upon all
wild lands. This Act was reserved by the (Jovernor, for the decision of
the Home Government, and though it had been recommended by ihreo
Secretaries for the Colonies, and by Lord Glenelg himself, the Koyal
As8ei\l has as yet been withheld, upon the representations of the absentee
proprietors.

You have slated that the grants were made subject to a ([uit icnt of
2s. to (is. yd. per lOU acres, have these quit rents been regularly paid '.'

Not in any instance at that rate.

What do you mean by (his answer ?

In the year I81G, the quit rents were generally very greatly in arrears,
and the proprietors succeeded in inducing the Home Government to
abandon all claim for arrears, and to make the quit rents uniform at lis.
per 100 acres.

Have they been paid regularly since that time P

1 believe that they have been.

What is the extent of Prince Edward Island P

It comprises rather more than 1 ,300,000 acres of land.

Of this amount how much is under cultivation ?

I (ind by the census of 1833, that there were 89757 acres of improved
land, and it is probable that at the present time there may be 100,000
acres, under cultivation.

That is less than a thirteenth of the granted land ?

Yes. And this though twenty years have elapsed since the date of the
grants.

What is the present population of the Island ?

About 40,000 souls.

Is this population equally distributed over the townships P

;cMion> of a
ictors of un-
c price which
Stanley also
nt upon non-
cnclg reconi.
)fllie Upper

Legislative
scnibly liuw-
ictory remedy

1 an address,
liicli address,

neglected tn
cr his death,
icre was any

remained in
Ir. President
the estahlish.
)rity of one in
ddresscs wore
cly refused to
he Asscnibly
e present, of
ivcd was nde-
nposing a lax

acre upon nil
le decision uf
(led by ihreo
If. the Hoyal
r tiic abseiiti'c

1 (|uit rent of
lariy paid '.'

ly in arrears,
overnnient to
iiilbrn) at Js.

No, the number of families varicB from about ten to upwards of 200 in
the diflercnt townnhips. There arc only two townships with the larger
number— the majority run from 20 to 100.

To what do you attribute the slow progress of settlement and cultiva-
tion in this Island ?

To the exhorbitant terms demanded by the proprietors of land, which
have deterred individuals from taking land, and have driven away many
also who had come to the Island for tne purpose of settlement.

s of improved
' be 100,000

le date of tlie

Prince Ed. Island.

III

IIi6 Excellency Sir Charles Filzroy, Governor of Prince Edward
Island.

V '

Your Excellency lias read the evidence given by Mr. I^ Lnclicnr,
M to tlic mode pursued in granting waste land in the Island of I'rinca
Edward, \» it Hubiitantially correct i*

I believe so.

Yonr Excellency addressed n letter soon after your assuniption of the
Govcrnnjent of Prince Kiiward Island to the absentee piDprictora uf land,
would you have any olijeelion to favour us with a copy ?

Not in the lea^*t. — (See Appendix No. I.)

Have the opinions which yon expressed in that letter been confinued by
your own residence in the Island .'

They have.

As a renjcdy for the evils arising from the condition of property in the
Island, general tax upon wild land, in the nature uf a tine, for ihu
nbatemcnt of a nuisance has been suggested, what is your Excellency's
opinion upon the proi);d)le operation of such a tax ?

If it was in the natinc of a penal lax, it would have the efl'ect of indue-
ing the proprietors to settle their lands, or dispose of them upon moderate
terms.

You mean by a penal tax, a tax which would really |)ress upon tho
absentee proprietors, which is not tho case with the present tax ?

It has not hitherto been the case.

Do yon conceive, therefore, that such a tax should be higher than any
hitherto impused ?

I thiidi tliat the tax of lOs per hundred acres, which was imposed
before I came to the colony, is not snllicicnt ; the object of the wilder-
ness tax. implied by an Act yet waiting the Koyal ass- nt, is to raise
funds for the erection of certain ])ublic buddings, which are much wanted.
If the tax was ein|)l()yed in such works as have a tendency to give an addi-
tional vi.iuc to lan.ls, the pioprietors would be naturally enabled to bear
a higher tax.

lias any otlicr method occurred to you of remedying the parti^;ular
evils in llic plac; now in (|ueslion <'

The oaly other remedy that has occurred to me, is an endeavour to
persuado tiic p. )prietor.s 1 1 concede their lands upon the terms now de-
manded by the luoie liberal proprietors ; the same that I recommended in
the circular Iclier of which you have a copy.

Viiicc Edward

fr. Lc lincliciir,
Island ()l° rriiic*

i9uni[)li()ii of the
>l)iU'turti u( land,

ecu coiifii iijcd by

f property in tlic

a (iiii-, for (lie

our Kxci'llcncy'i

? rHict of indue-
1 ujnin moderate

press upon tho
Mil tax i

higher than any

:\i was imposed
of the wilder*
^ nt, is to raise
ire nuieli wanted.
• to f;ive an addi-
enabled to bear

ig the particular

m endeavour to
c terms now de-
rccoinmcnded in

liobtrl llodijson, Eh<i. Attorney (iencral for Prliico Kdward'u Island,

Augu>.t, I7lli, ls3M.

How loii'j; have yon resided in I'linee Kdwurd l-liiid '.'

I ai.i a native of the hiand, and have re.-idi I tlKie cun^'tantly since
ls|!».

Max viiur attention luen partieidaily diricUd to the hlale of l.nukd
pn)|iei(v in I'linie Milward l-land, and the ili'iil of the system under
whiih the Crown huuhi have been disjosed of to iniiividuals '.

It lias.

You liavc read that part of the cvideiue of Mr. Keliiuluiir. given
Itefore lliis ('onuiiinsion, whirh relates to llu^ liistoi y nf the disposal ol
Cniwii lands, dues that history appear to you to he eonecl .'

Mainly so, any inueeurecies that it may contain are not uf substantial
importanee.

Will you be so good as to t>latc to the ('onunisiiition your views upon
liiis sidijecl ?

I consider that liie course adopted in the disjiosal of Crown lands has
proved exceeiiingly injurious to the welfare of the Colony generally, It
lias retarded its im|in)venient. The elleets of the system are illustrated
by two leluiiis, whieh I beg leave to put in, and from whiih it appears,
that in l^>■5■l, more than sixty years after the original grants of the wholo
of the l-.land, whieh consists of I, .'<:!;{, I Ol) acres, only VV2.2'2'} acres were
occupied, I mean by occupation, in actual possession of some settler,
but not tiiat the whole of the land was cultivated. The quantity occupied,
therefore, was only about one third of the whole. About DO, (100 acres,
or about a fourteenth of the whole were under cuilivation. No very
mateiial alteration has taken place since that time, although the system
of husbandry upon the land then cultivated has been imiiroved. I attri-
bute this want of advancement in the colonization of the Idand, chieHy
to the disinclination evincril by a nund)er o\ the proprietors to grant long
leases to tenants, which is a technical term in the Island, meaning
leases of !)!)!) years. Several of the j)roprietor.s retain their tenants, as
tenants at will, and others refuse to grant leases of wilderness lands for
a longer period than lurly ytars. There can be no (pnstion but that the
aettlement of the Island has been retarded of late years by the agitation
of the escheat <iucstion, whereby all titles to property are remlered to a
certain degree insecure, by the uncertainty which hangs over tho subject,
and by which the investment of capital is greatly discouraged.

But for the uncertainty of title, would there be a considerable demand
for new lands ?

I think there would.

Is the didiculty of obtaining land upon remunerating terms much com-
plained of by the settlers !

It is, especially by those who are tenants at will, and by those who can
only ob'.ain leases of wild land for forty years.

Does the existence of .so much wilderness land, the property of indi-
viduals, operate injuriously u,ion the i)roi)eily of the Island, indejicn-
dantly of the dilliculty complained of as to obtaining a satisfactory [)roperly
in new land >■

It does — those roads that have been made throughout the colony have
been so made at the expense of the Province, without any contribution

> n

J!!'

fllJ

from the proprietors of the wild lands, through whose property these roads
pass, and which materially tended to increase the value of their property.
I should quahfy this by saying, that within the last five years, the Legis-
lature have passed an Act, compelling the proprietors to contribute to
new roads made through their wilderness lands.

Are the proprietors generally resident in the Island, or absentees ?

Generally absentees, residing for the most part in Great Britain, who
have at all times derived very little advantage from the possession of this
property, and s'ill less of late years, inconsequence of the agitation of
the £KL-heat question, which has induced the tenants of some proprietors
to withhold the payment of rent.

I presume that the absentees generally take very little interest in the
state of their property ?

They have taken very little hitherto. But I should state, that in a pam-
phlet recently published by Mr. Young, of Halifax, the Agent of several
of the proprietors, in conducting their opposition to the proposed Court of
K>cheat, and Land Assessment Bill, they have promised to grant leases
for sixty J ears, with a clause allowing the tenant to purchase at twenty
years purchase, and if he should not avail himself of the right given by
this clause, that then, at the ex"iration of the lease, the improvements
he may have made should be taken at a valuatioa,

They have not then taken any steps to settle their properties according
to the terms of this grant ?

With two or three exceptions they have not. The resident population
at the present time consists of persons who have found their way there
from the adjoining colonies, or who have been induced to emigrate by
speculators who have taken up ships to the Island, with a view of making
a profit by their passage money.

To what extent do you imagine that a tax upon all wild lands would
operate as a renedy for the evils to which you have adverted. A tax,
that is, which chould be in the nature of a fine for the abatement of a
nuisance, and which at the same time should be employed in tlie general
improvement of the Island ?

I am of opinion that a tax of that nature would be the best thing that
could be devised to induce the proprietors to settle or dispose of their lands,
and an Act imposing such a tax was passed in 1837 by the Legislature of
the province, and is now waitmg the assent of Her Majesty. The Act
imposes a tax of 2s. currency per 100 acres, upon leased or occupied
land, andof 4s. per 100 acres upon wilderness or unoccupied lands, and
Utfincs what dis(Mi|)ti<in of land shall be considered as coming within the
minimum tax, and what shall be subject to the greater. It authorizes a
process of judgment against lands in arrear, and their sale to pay the
amount of the lax, and the expenses. An Act ha* been in force for the
five last yearij, imposing a tax of 2s. per 100 acres upon all the lands in the
ri)lony. Tliiit \ct was however a boon to the proprietors, as it released
them frcm tlit payment of the quit rent to the Crown, which was 2s.
sterling, or nearly 3s. currency per 100 acres. I beg leave to hand in a
return of the number of acres in respect of which the tax was in arrear,
and the quantity of land sold to defray the arrearages, with the prices at
which they were sold.

Is the tax of 4s. per 100 acres to be imposed by the Act of the Pro-
vincial Legislature of 1837, in your opinion suflicienl for the |HU'pose it
is designed to accomplish ?

roperty these roads
3 of their property.
B years, the Legis-
> to contribute to

r absentees ?
freat Britain, who
' possession of this
f the agitation of
r some proprietors

tie interest in the

te, that in a pam-
3 Agent of several
)roposed Court of
ill to grant icasea
rchase at twenty
16 right given by
he improvements

perties according

ident population
their way there
to emigrate by

I view of making

k'iid lands would

verted. A tax,

abatement of a

d in the general

best tiling that
se of their lands,
;ie Legislature of
esty. The Act
ed or occupied
ipied lands, and
niing within the

It authorizes a
sale to pay the
a force for the

the lands in the
I as it released

which was 2s.

e to liand in a
was in arrear,
itii the prices at

ct of the Pro-
thc purpose it

dis-

ap.
and

It is certainly not too high, and if any thing it is too low. It might be
insufficient to induce the proprietors to do any thing effectual to settle
their land.

Was it designed that the produce of this tax of 4s, should be applied to
the improvement of the country ?

It was to be paid into the general revenue, and was to be at the
posal of the Legislature.

But if the produce of a tax upon wilderness land were specifically
plied to the improvement of the country, by making roads, bridges
such other worics as have a tendency to increase the value of land, a
much higher tax might be imposed without any injustice to the pro-
prietors f

Undoubtedly so.

While at the sam? time it would operate to induce them to take sotuti
effectual means to settle their land in proportion to its amount ?

Yes.

Have any other methods occurred to you by which you imagine the
mischief arising from the profuse method of granting Crown lands in this
Island might be remedied ?

A purchase by the Government from the proprietors of the whole oi
their lands, supposing that such a purchase could be effected upon reasona-
ble terms. Supposing such an arrangement could be made, the sums
advanced by Government would be speedily refunded with interest, by
the adoption of a system of sale.

See Appendix No. 1 — Statement of Number of Acres occupied and
unoccupied.

Appendix No. 2 — Census of Population, &c.

Appendix No. 3— Return of Townships, &c.

Prince Ed. Island.

¥'A I in

Thomas Haviland, Esq. Treasurer of the Province.

How long have you resided in Prince Edward Island ?

Twenty-one years and upwards.

During your residence in the Island have you given altention to the
advancement of emigration ?

I have.

Has it been on a successful and larce scale ?

No.

What are the causes, in your opinion, of ils want of success ?

The tenure on which the settler has been able to obtain lands. In
cases where tenures have been liberal, and the emigrant industrious, they
have never failed to prove advantageous to the emigrant and to the pro-
prietors.

What do you consider liberal term ?

Tiie emigrant should have his location for the first three years free of
all rent. The fourth year at throe pence per annum per acre. Tlie fiftii
year six pence ; sixth year, nine pence, and Ihc seventh and remainder
of nine hundred and ninety-nine years, at one shilling per acre, with the
privilege of purchasing at any time at twenty years purchase. These arc
what 1 would call liberal terms, and are attended with equal advantirge to
proprietors and tenants.

Have those terms been acted upon in any cases, and if so in what
cases to your knowledge ?

Sir James Montgomery and Brothers, i)roprietors of several townships,
are the only persons who act up to this system, and to its full extent,
that I am aware of, and I beg to bear evidence in favor of the system. In
township No. 34, not more than .000 acres of 20,000 are unoccupied,
and in others owned by the same proprietors, and granted on the same
terms, settlements are rapidly encreasing — there are other proprietors
who give long leases, but not all the advantages granted by Sir James
Montgomery ; these properties also evince considerable improvements,
viz : Lord Selkirk, Lord Westmoreland, the Heirs of John Cambridge,
Esq. and the Rev. J. Macdonald,

What success has attended the settlement of property, where leases
have been granted at will, or for a short term of years ?

The settlement on such properties are very few, and the settlers them-
selves in general are extremely poor and discontented, from having liltle
or no prospective interest in the soil they redeem and cultivate. They
have no energy to clear more lands than for their present and immediate
support. They can be distinguished by the stranger — by their wretch-
edness and want of comfort and improvement.

Does a large proportion of the Island still remain unsettled ?

Yes, probably three-fourths to four-fifths is unsettled.

In your opinion what would be the best means to resort to, to promote
emigration, and to forward the country that remains in a wilderness
state ?

In terms already mentioned, and in cases when the emigrant is poor,
instruction s-honld be given to the resident agent to supply them the
means for subsisting for the first year. On those terms there might bo
from 2000 to 3000 persons annually located.

Docs there appear to you to be sufficient exertion on the part of pro-
prietors to promote the interest of the Island, to forward emigration J or
do the proprietors hold land only with reference to a future benefit ?

i h: I

attention to the

ccess ?

ibtain lands. In

ndustrious, they

and to the pro-

ree years free of
acre. Tlie fifth
Ii and remainder
r acre, with the
inse. These arc
ual advant{ige to

1 if so in wiiat

t'erai townships,
' its full extent,
tiie system. In
we unoccupied,
ed on the same
ther proprietors
1 by Sir James
improvements,
hri Cambridge,

>', where leases

3 settlers them-
m having liltle
Jltivafe. They
and immediate
' their wretch-
ed ?

to, to promote
a wilderness

;rant is poor,
'ply them the
there might bo

e part of pro-
iiigration j or
enefit ?

Tliere is very little individual exertion on the part of any proprietors
to encourage emigration, while in others tbcy appear to hold their pro-
perty with the sole view of future benefit, by its advancing in value by
the iiibour and exertions of others.

Does it appear to you tliere might be a remedy for the aibove, and if so
what would you recommend ?

I know of but one remedy in the present state of things, which would
be a tfix by way of a penal tax upon wilderness lands, and thus compel
the proprietor to locate them himself, or to dispose of them to others,
who would do so.

In case the above remedy was resorted to, what amount of tax per 100
acres, would, in your opinion be best to be established ?

Four shillings per 100 acres on all wilderness lands, and half the
amount on cultivated lands, a higher tax has been suggested by some of
the resident colonists, but in my opinion the above rate would meet
the object

If such tax were expended only for the local in)provc:nci.ts iii the
Island, and to promote emigration, is it in your opinion, mo;c tiian v.ould
be just to proprietors ?

Certainly not, at present they arc liable to more than half that sum by
the tenure of their grant?, and which is solely at the disposal of the
Crown for any purpose they may choose.

What would be the probable amount of this lax above proposed ?

About £2200.

Would you propose any tax on town and pasture lots ?

Yes, at the rate of 12s. per acre on town lots, not cultivated, and Gs.
on those inhabited or in cultivation, and four pence per acre on pasture
lots in a wilderness state, and two peace per acre on pasture lots in
cultivation.

What additional revenue would be produced by the tax on the last
mentioned properties ?

About £400, deducting the expenses of collection, the net produce of
the whole would be about £2400.

Am 1 right in supposing you have charge of some estate in the Island ?

Yes, I am agent for two properties, of Sir J. F. Seymour.

Have you observed sutlicientiy on the character and qualities of the
difl'er?nt kind of settlers who have come to the country, to be able to
state who are, in your opinion the best class of men as emigrants?

Decidedly the best emigrants are from the Lowlands of Scotland, and
from Yorkshire, they combine a better degree ol industry, and a more
improved system of farming than any other class of emigrants. Latterly
there has been a considerable emigration from SuliolU, who are also an
industrious class of people, the latter were mostly paupers, sent out by
subscription, and have made themselves comparatively independent in
the course of five or six years.

Upon what properties have these settlers been located ?

Mostly on the property of Lord Westmoreland and Sir James Mont-
gomery and Brothers, and on others where liberal terms were given.

Do you know the price at which wild lands sell at present, say in lots
from 100 to 500 acres ?

From 10s. to 20s. per acre, according to the position and quality.

Is 10s. the minimum price of any plot of land sold as above ?

Yes, 10s. is the minimum price of land capable of cultivation, but
there is land that has no value.

Is there much in the Island of little or no value ?

No great quantity, altogether 10 to 20,000 acres.

Is this land in large blocks ?

Mostly in large blocks of 3,000 to 5,000 acres.

Would you propose on such lands to remit the tax, or what part of il ?

In some cases the whole, or as the lands might have some value.

Has any sum been received by you as Treasuser of the Province, on
account of Crown lands, or Crown property ?

Yes, I have received about £800 currency — there will be a further sum
of probably £400 to £.500 more this year.

How has this money been disposed of?

About £100 has been paid to cover the expense of surveys, the balance
is now in my hands. During the last sessions of the House of Assembly,
I addressed the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for leave to appro*
priate the balance towards the erection of a House of Industry* The ap-
plication was forwarded by the Colonial Oflice to the Treasury, and the
Treasury were pleased to accede to the application, and asked to be
furnished with plans and estimates, which, as desired, will be laid before the
House of Assembly next Session.

What is expected to be the amount for the above purpose ?

From £1500 to £2000 currency, the House of Assembly will pay up
the balance.

)r what part of ii ?

some value.

the Province, on

be a further sum

veys, the balance

use of Assemblv,

leave to appro-

idustrv. The ap.

reasury, and the

and asked to be

be laid before tlic

lose ?

mbly will pay up

John Lawson, Esq. Solicitor General.

Have you been residing long in Prince Edward Island

Fourteen years.

During that time has the Island advanced in general improvement,
equal to what might be expected from its capabilities ?

Decidedly not.

What, in your opinion, causes the check to improvement (

First, the want of population, and in a country where the revenue is
solely raised by imposts on articles imported into the country, it
is consequently small. To instance which the Government Mouse and
Court House were built by taxes on land.

What has hitherto checked emigration in proportion to others of the
British American Colonies ?

The high prices of land, the upset price of land in the counties being
far less than here — for instance in Nova Scotia, the upset price of land
varies from 2s to ')«. per acre, here it is almost invariably at 20s.

In your opinion is there any defect as to the tenure on which land^
are now let in the Island ?

The system of lease-holding is radically bad, in proof of which the lease-
holders are almost invariably poor, and on the contrary the freeholders
are in good circumstances, and some of them afHuent. A lease-holder's
larm may be almost invariably known by the neglegence of its culture.

Will you state the tenure of the lease.holders you now allude to t

Leases from 99!) to 40 years.

Does the mischief mentioned by you, as caused by lease-hold tenure,
appiy equally to ihc 4() as to !)90 years '^

Not .so much in cases of the long leases, provided they have a consi-
derate laiidloinJ or agent, but in both cases it presses equally hard for the
tirst live yeiirs.

What, in your opinion, would be the proper term to grant, as most
beneficial for all parties ?

Five years free of rent altogether ; then 3d for the next year ; then 6d ;
then 9d ; then Is per year for the remainder of 999 years, with, in all
cases, liberty to buy at twenty years purchase.

lias much exertion been made to settle the wild lands in the Island ?

Not of late years ; chiefly because Sir J. Montgomery and Lord
Selkirk took a good deal oi' pains. The consequences are their townships
are the most flourishing and populous in the Island.

In your opinion, do the proprietors hold their lands principally with a
view to present improvement or to future benefit ?

Some of them disregard present improvement, and look to the accumu-
lated value of the land from the settlement of others.

What remedy would you suggest for the evil ?

The only remedy is to tax wilderness lands, and at a rate high enough
to compel the proprietor to settle them.

\Vliat do you think ought to be the tax in such cases, provided the
tax so laid was applied to emigration and the general advancement and
improvement of the country ?

At least IDs per 100 acres on wilderness lands. I would not tax
cultivaled lands at all. I would give the proprietor, in the first instance,
a fair time, aiul if half the township was settled in a limited time the tax
should not be aj)plicd to that property.

PiuNcii; I^D, Island. D

Are you not in charge of some properiiei in the Island ?

Yes, about 50,000 acres.

Have you particularly observed as to one class of settlers being more
successful than another ?

Generally speaking, the English and the natives and the Lowland
Scotch make good settlers.

Can you inform me if there is a probability of some better encourage^
raent being afforded (o settlers ?

Some of the proprietors, through Mr. Young, their agent, have ex-
pressed their intention of leasing and selling land upon more favourable
terms than heretofore, which, if adhered to, will go far to remedy many
of the of the evils that have hitherto existed.

Can you state the terms proposed by Mr. Young ?

To sell the land from 63 3d Halifax currency to 20s per acre. Leases
for 61 years certain, or for 3 lives, or for 99 years. At the first and
second year no rent ; third year, 3d per acre ; fourth year, (jil ; tifth
year, 9d, and succeeding years Is. per acre per year ; and what 1 consider
of most consequence is the right of purchasing upon the terms before
mentioned, viz. : — 5s 3d or 208 an acre, according to situation.

In your opinion would those terms hold out such prospect of success to
settlers as would encourage a succession of emigration ?

I think they would, provided the rent did not commence until the fifth
year.

Are you aware of the number of proprietors who have proposed those
terms through Mr. Young.

There are thirteen who have.

\ '•:¥. ■'■

Ulers being more

ind the Lowland

better encourage-

• agent, have ex-
inore favourable
to remedy many

)er acre. Leases

At the first and

year, (hi; fifth

1 what I consider

he terms before

nation.

ect of success to

:e until the fifth
! proj)osed those

Joseph Sydney Deehj, Esq. Agent to Sir J. Montgomery and Brothers.

Have you been long a resident in the Island ?

Since June, 1833, with a short absence once or twice.

What quantity of land have you charge of ?

I have charge of three townships and two small islands.

What progress has taken place as to settlement of the above lands, of
late years ?

In may 1833, I took charge of the above property. The tenants were
then in great arrears of rent. Many of the farms and houses were in a
ruinous state. This state of things was caused from the fear of the tenants,
on account of their arrears, who were fearful of being deprived of their
improvements. I made an arrangement with all parties so as to place
them on easy terms, and the property Is now one of the most rtourishiiifj
in the Island. Almost all the farmers have built new houses, particu-
larly on lots 51 and 34.

Do these farms now pay a fair rent ?

They pay a rent of Is. sterling per acre, with great regularity, and
without any complaint. They now are all thriving tenants.

To what do you attribute this change ?

To a better understanding with the proprietors, and they having their
leases for 999 years, and there is particularly a feeling of contentment,
and a desire to improve in lot 3-1, where there is an understandin'j; that
the land may be purchased with the improvements of the tenant at ^0
years purchase. In that lot there are only 200 acres remaining unsettled.
There are 245 tenants on this lot having leased farms, and there are lf>
purchasers settled on it.

Since you took possession of the above three lots in 1833, how many
settlers have come upon them '!

Ninety-six new tenants.

What are the terms as to rent on which tenants arc admitted on the
above property ?

First three years free of rent — 4th year 6d. per acre — 5th year 9d. —
6th year Is., and the same to end of term.

Have the tenants in all cases been able to act up to the above terms -

Generally — there are few exceptions, probably in consecjuence of sick-
ness or bad seasons.

What quantity of land do you give in the first instance to settlers ?

One hundred acres is the general thing, but I recommend them to take
50 acres at first, and I reserve the other 50 for them.

In case of settlers coming to the Island, what sum of money should
they have as an outlay to build houses, and to procure the necessary
stock, &c. &c. ?

A man ought to have £25 or £30.

In cases where settlers have not this money, what agreement is made
to enable them to get on ?

He must have a cow, and he ought to have a horse — £25 would be
necessary. Men who go to work without this capital, are under great
difficulties, and cannot pay rent for many years.

What taxes are lands liable to at present ?

Only 2s. currency per 100 acres, which is a tax put on in 1833, in
lieu of quit rents. This tax is regularly paid.

Does this tax extend the same to cultivated and uncultivated land ?

Yes, they all pny the same.

I find by a return before mc, of the number of acres occupied in the
Island, in 183:}, there is a variation of many thousand acres — in some
cases as much as 18,000 of cultivation in one lot and another — how do
you account for this ?

In most cases it arises from the ^Yant of liberal terms on the part of
the proprietors, and in a few cases from the nature of the soil, and some-
times also from want of proper communication.

What are the objectionable terms on the part of proprietors alluded to ?

Short leases principally.

Do settlers generally object to become tenants at will ?

I do not think any settler would become a tenant at will.

Is there much soil on the Island that could not be brought under cul-
tivation ?

There is a portion in each township.

Is that land altogether without value ?

I should say not — small portions of it arc not worth any thing, but
much of it would be brought into cultivation when the country is further
advanced in improvement.

How are the roads managed as to the expense of making and repairing
them ?

They are made and maintained by statute labour, with an occasional
grant from the Legislature.

What labour is rLfjuircd by law ?

Three days from each tenant, without reference to his extent ol t'anii.
N'ew roads arc made in the first ini-tance by an assessment on tiie hunk
tluougli which they pass.

Is (his mode of road niakini;' approved uf amongst the tenantry, and
dots il meet the object desired ?

It is not n desirable .system — not half a day's work is done, and the
ruuds arc not equally made throiigliout.

Vou are aware (hat ihcrc has been u proposal by the Legislature (,o
levy a tax of 4s. on wild lands — what do yon think would he the opera-
tion of that tax ?

It would g-rcatly benefit this Island. It «ou Id force the proprietors
to bring the lands forward for sale or settlement, and it would evidently
benefit (he whole country.

If this tux was appropriated to benefit the Island in advancing im-
provenjent and emigration, is 4.s. above mentioned as much as would bt
desiraiiic to impose on wild lands ?

I think it would be fair, and not too much. I think there ought to bo
a difTerenee made in the properties, as they have a largo or small porlion
cultivated, that seems to be the only objection.

What class of settlers have you found to succeed best ?

1 have found the Yorkshire, Sullblk and Lowland of Scotland settlers
the best. The Highlanders and the North of Ireland settlers do not get
on so well. Difterent countrymen ought to be put in separate parties,
und settlers ought not to be put alone.

Have you any remarks to make us to the present mode of locating (he
tenants ?

The present form of a farm is ten chains front, by one hundred hack
This is most inconvenient, as giving additional labour. A tarin ought
to he as near a square as possible. I givo il possible 20 chains front bv
50 depth.

occupied in the
d acres — in some
mother — how do

} on tlie part of
le soil, and some-

ietors alluded to ?

•ought under cul-

any thing, but
ountry is further

ng and repairing

h an occasional

s extent of farm,
iiiton the luiids

:; lonunlrv, am!

s done, and the

: LcgislaUirc (a
Id l»e the opera-

Ihe proprietors
ivouid evidenlly

atlvuiicir)<r im-
ich as would be

ere ouglit to be
rsniiill portion

Holland sctllcrs
llcrs do not get
paralo parties,

of locating the

hundred back
A fiUlM ought
»iiiM> front bv

Is there a want of labour in llic country at present I

Yes. Karnj servants arc nuich nciiiin-il in the country. There urc
very few in the country. 'I'hcy arc receiving lix. per day and their keejt,
or 4s. and tind themselves.

Does this rate of wages apply to all the year ?

There is a diHercncc of about is. in \> inter, but labour is at all linirA
scarce.

What nund>er of farms arc leased and sold on the dilfcrenl lots in
your charge ?

'i'hcrc arc 24a leased on lot 34, and l!( sold — 1!) leased on 51 and 'IJ
sold — Ml leased on .')!) and 11 sold,

What is the state of the surveys on the Island '

Tlic snrvcysnf lownsiiips arc recently put at rest by rc-survey, under
tlio orders ol the (iovcrnor and Council. The surveys of lots are dune
in n)ost cases at tlu expense of tenants.

Are the surveys of lots found to be accurate, and such as to enable
transfer and sale of property to be made with sutlicient conlidcnee .'

In many cases there are not. There is a great deal of liligution at
present on account of boundary lines.
Docs this utienrtuinty as to surveys check the advancement of sctllcrs ?

It causes a good deal of litigation, and many have paid half a dozen of
surveys — it calls much for attention.

Can you state what progress there lias been in emigration o| late
years ?

It has been very trilling, arising, I think from the agitated state oi
things here, chielly the I^sehcat question.

Have any emigrants of late yuirs come to the Island with intention of
settling, who have subsccpienlly proceeded to other places to locate
themselves ?

Yes, a few liavc.

Has there been any rise in the price of wild lands, since your residence
on the Island '(

There has been some rise in wild laud — near the town they have nearly
doubled in value the last 15 years.

WMiat would be the price of about IQO to 200 acres of wild land, good
quality and well situated '!

Not less than 15s, sterling per acre. 500 acres were ollered lately for
128. 6 J. sterling.

Are there any points that have not been referred to, and occur to you,
as requiring attention, in reference to the future settlement of the Island 1

There is great difliculty and dispute as to fisheriesi which is very
injurious to the settlement of any farm, und the prosperity of the country.

E
Prince Ed. Island.

urn ,.

iieor(je Wriyht, Esquire, Surveyor General.

How long have yo;i r. iiKil in Prince Edward Island :

1 am a native of Ihc Island, and have been very littit; ubieut from it.

How long have you been Surveyor General of the I'rovince f

About ten years!

M'ill you slate what quantity of land i; now in possession of the Crown,
and how the lenuiining portions of lands in the Island have been disjiosed
of.'

This return (Ajijiendix C.) will hhow theri- arc only 7,1()() acres of
township lands now in possession of the Crow r.. There are several par-
cels of f;round that may revert to the Crown, at present held by licenses
of occupation, perhaps IdUO acres. There are also !)()() town and
pasture lots, varyin|j; from n quarter of an acre to twelve acres ; the ex-
tent and upset price of each is in the return. The remaining part of the
Island was given on certain conditions, in lots of 20,000 acres.

What ((uantity of land capable ol cultivation is the wiiole Island said to
contain \'

'J he Island contains about l,3G'),000 acres, divided in three counties,
(see I'lau, Appendix No. 2,) of which perhaps there are not more than
10,000 acres incapable of cultivation,

lias there lately been a sale of Crown lands ?

Some town lots were sold in .July last. No Crown township lands,
except glebe lands, have been sold at any time. Prior to the last four or
five years, settlers have been iierniitled to occupy the Crown lands under
license of occupation, on condition of their obtaining grants on the ful-
lilmcnt of certain terms.

What arc the terms alluded to ?

On town lots to biukl a dwelling house of certain dimensions ; on
pasture lots clearing and fencing thi»c acres ; on tov.nship lots they
obtained a L;rant of land on forming a settlement. This svstem has
ceased since four or five years.

Was much land occupied on the terms speriried ?

A great deal ; particularly town and pasture lots,
were almost entirely settled.

Were the terms in all cases conftn-med with ?

Latterly they were. Formerly they obtained grant? without license of
occupation, and many of them have not fuKilled their conditions.

Have any steps been taken in reference to those parties ?

None whatever.

Do most of the original proprietors possess the grants ?

Very few, and they have many of them changed hands several times.

Were the terms on which the original grants were made, geiicrally
complied with ?

I believe in no instance. It was found impossible strictly to comply
with the terms which require that the lands should be occupied by foreign
Protestants.

Have those lands, in your opinion, progressed in improvement and
settlement as they might have been expected to do, considering the advan-
tages held out by the fertility of the soil of this Island ?

No, I do not think they have.

The township loti

:tli; abicut from it.
I'ovincc '■'

fsion ul tiicCrowii,
liavo been disposed

'ly 7,100 (icrcs of
■0 ;irc several par,.
It lield by licenses
so 0(3U town and
ve acres ; tlic ex.
M\\\\v^ part of the
> acres,
liule Island said to

in three counties,
are not more than

11 towns^Iiip lands,
to the kist four or
■roun huids under
.^rants on tlic ful-

diniensions ; on
nynship lots they
TIhs &ystem has

'he township loti

ivilhoiii license of
nditions.

;s?

> several times,
made, geiierally

trictly to comply
;upied by foreign

nprovement and
ering tlie advan-

Whnt do you coniiidcr lius been tlic check to this iiuprovc-
nient .'

In niiiiiy iiiNliiiiccs to tlic nej^lcct of proprietors, many of whom hare
not been represented by agents witii sufTicieiit power to execute dced.s
ur leases, nnd whose terms were not suflicicntly liberal.

Hum there billiorto been a tux on unsettled lands on the Inland ?

There has been an assessment of tis on one hundred acres of all
lands. That hill has expired this year, and in lien of it n hill has passed
the Legislature here iaiposini;' a tax of 4s on wilderMi'f,s lands and
'2s on other lands, The assent to this bill is reserved ibr s;iiictioii at
home.

In yonr opinion, is this the best method of inducing proprietors to
scttle'the unsettled lands, or do you think thut u larger tax than 4s
would be advisable for the benelit of the country, if the whole of such
nioncy were appropriated to improvements and emigration?

A higher (ux would further benelit the country, but I think this fat
would be fair at present.

Do some of the proprietors hold their lands with reference tc future
benefit without any regard to present improvement?

A few no doubt do so,

Was there not a quit rent formerly, and up to what time did the quit
rent coiitiniie ?

There was a quit rent of 2s Gd Sterling. Latterly it was 2s and it
was altogether discontinued on the cstublishment of the late Act levy-
i g 2s per huinlrcd acns.

Was the quit rent reguhirly paid .'

A considerable sum was paid by some of the proprietors. It was
never paid by others.

IJow are the boundary lines of counties and surveys generally laid
down ?

The surveys have not been completed. A great confusion has existed
for want of proper bomulary lines. A bill was passed in 18'31 which has
partially removed the division between townships, but many of the lots
remain unsettled. Proprietors now generally fi.K posts, and give the
tenants the lot they mark off.

Are the roads generally good through the Island, and will you bo kind
enough to state how they are provided for \

They are snfliciently good for agricultural purposes, and are kept in
repair principally by statute labour. Sometimes a vote is given towards
making new roads.

Could a better mode than this be adopted ?

In my opinion, a tax or assessment in money svould be the preferable
way — the present system does not seem to answer.

What lias been the amount of sales of Crown lands, timber, &c. dur-
ing the years you have disposed of them ?

There is nothing to dispose of but land in the Island. On sales the
receipts have been —

In 183-1 .. .. £255

. . 1835 (no sale) . . . .

.. 183G .. .. 73 5

, 1837 .. .. .. 541

.. 1838 .. .. .. 406 2 6

Total

JC1309 7 G

How linH the money been diiiposcd of?

Ills received by lliu Treasurer of the Province, nnd none nl' il Imn
been disposed ufas yet, except probably jCI^O, vvliieli has bccu cxpcml..
cd lor survcyit.

Can you turninh a map or plun oftlic Island, by way ofu guide to tlio
lands and lots alluded to i*

i have not oiiu nt present, but will prepare and fiiiiiih onu at nn cnrly
period.

Can yuu give any account of the progresstivo rise in vnlut; ufvvild land
in the Island !

I uni ol'oninioii that wild lands have increased in value doublo '.liu
amount within tlie lutit twenty years.

lias there been any rise in tlic last five years "*

There has been some rise, but not a very material unu.

m
1

ul none of it has
Ims Ih-cii cxpctnl..

of a giiido (o the

I oiiu ut nn cnrly

iliii; ot'wild IuikI

t-aluo double '.liu

G. li. Goodman, Eiq. Collector of the Customi.

Hare you resided long in lhi< Province ?

C'on!itai\tly since ]^\U.

From your knu»*U''-gc of the Colony, its productions, &c. ivc. Imn it
cannliilit'ie* of supplying beyond tlio denmnds of the iidiubilants '

V<'ry great capubility beyond the demand of ihc coloniitts. I should
lay xUi-ra is to the amount, on an average, of £40,000 sterling value of
agricultnral produce cxpofted-

Docs this uj>|)ly to cattle as well »»« to grain ?

It includes both. i i -

Have you on account of the (lunntilies of each article exported tlurini!^
the last year, 1837— aUo for IStV'i and 1830, which shews the iiicrt'u-K;
hn8 been of 183(i above I83r) ?

Abouti'O.lOO. Itwasthosome in 1837 BH IR.'lt;, but in 183/ Ihero
was a partial failure in (he potaloc crop, which prevcnleil Ihc cxpcctiil
average of increase. , •, /•

With the facilities and encourngcmcnt oH'ercd by the soil »or settling
and emigrating, whul, in your opinion, has prevented a greater inercaH!
in improvement and population ? • , •

The Government has not the power sudiciciilly to iiilluciicc promie-
tors, who hold Ihc Island in large grants. Many of (he proprietors have
not till this lime given their agents any power to seltle the hinds on
terms that would induce settlers to emigrate to the country.

Are there any means that ore likely in your opinion to remedy the

above evil ? . , , , ■ , , ..i

A tax on wilderness land, and cultivated land would oblige the

proprietors to settle or dispose of them.

Prince Ed. Island.

iii

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O 71

(Ji

No. 2.

TO THE raOPRIETORS OF LAND IN PRINCE EDWARD

ISLAND.

{Circular.)

Government House, Prince Eihvard Island,
3rcl Oclobcr, 1837.

As a proprietor of land in Prince Edward Island, I consider it tny
duty to inform you, tliat upon my assumption of this Government, in
June last, I found a considerable degree of excitement prevailing among
the tenantry and settlers in general, on the subject of the tenure of the
lands in their possession, connected with the long agitated question of
Escheat — a state of things, I regret to say, very opposite to the opinion
which I had been led to entertain before I left England, in reference to
this question, from the representations of my predecessor. Sir John
Harvey.

Her Majesty's Government having so decidedly refused the application
of the House of Assembly, for the establishment of a Court of Escheat, I
considered it my first duty on my arrival here, to visit the ditferent
settlements throughout the Island, and to endeavour to impress upon
the minds of the people, the necessity of conforming to this decision.
I have accordingly held personal communication with the settlers in
almost every district ; but although 1 have done my utmost to dissuade
them from contiiming to indulge in the vain hope of succeeding in their
aim of a general Escheat, I regret to say, that I have not been able to
accomplish that object. At the san»e time 1 have learned sufficient to
satisfy me, that in many cases there exist grounds of complaint, which,
though not of a nature to justify the extreme measure they seek to obtain,
yet in my mind go a long way to account for, if not to palliate the line
of conduct pursued by them.

With these feelings, added to the appeal already made to you in be-
half of your tenantry, by Sir John Harvey, which I had every reason
to e,\pect, from the communication I had received from Mr. Robert
Stewart, of Great Russell street, before I left England, would have pro-
duced a favorable result, I cannot avoid expressing my extreme disap-
pointment at having been in this Colony nearly four months without
receiving any further communication on the subject. I am induced now
to address you, with the hope, that I may still persuade you to grant to
your tenantry, such terms as I sincerely think they arc fully and fairly
entitled to, and such as 1 aa» convinced it is for your immediate and
prospective interests to grant. And I beg to premise my appeal in their
favor, with this incontrovertible observation — Thai it is i:(tcrly iinp.os-
i-iblc for any person unacquainted with the local circumstances of a new
Colony, to form a correct estimate of t\ie difficulties and privalioui
which the first settler upon wilderness lands has to cnciuiiilcr. It is a
long scries of years before he can obtain from the snil more than a hare
subsistence lor himself and I'umily, notwithstanding his most iinweaiicd

,'■11

111

:i';

perseverance and industry ; and il is liis hard wrought labour in redectn<
ing the forest from its original state, which alone stamps a value on the
land he improves It ought not therefore to be matter of surprise, that,
although he may be ready and willing to pay a fnir equivalent, either in
rent or otherwise, for the land he occupies, he !>hould foci dismayed (as
too frequently happens) at the prospect of being deprived of the hard
earned fruits of the labour of the earliest and best years of his manhood,
whether from fin accumulation of heavy arrears of rent, which he was
unable to realize from the land, or from the refusal of the proprietor to
grant him a tenure of sufficient endurance to ensure to his family the
profits of his industry ; and this, probably in the decline of his life, with
a constitution broken, and health impaired by incessant toil, and over
exertion ! Can it, I say, be a matter of surprise that he should be dis-
contented with his lot P (hat he should instill those feelings into the
minds of his family ? and that they should be too ready to listen to the
delusive hopes htld out by designing men, and give a willing ear to their
proposals, of any measure, however fallacious, which holds out to them
a hope of relief?

You will perhaps naturally ask, why the settler, in the first instance,
consents to occupy land without the security of a long lease .' and
remark that he takes it with his eyes open, and under no compulsion.
I reply, that many of the settlers arc extremely ignorant men, who, on
fust arriving in the Colony, were induced to settle on the lands without
due consideration, and incapable of forming a proper ostimafo of the
hardships and difticiiltics ttiey would have to contend with ; others en-
couraged by false representations ; some by the promises of (he pro-
prietor or his agent to give them titles, promises which in many instances
have never been fuifiled. But cases of greater hardship even than these
have come to my knowledge, where (he unfortunate tenant has actually
paid for his farm, to a person who professed to be the legal owner of
the soil, before he left his native country, and has subsequently been
called upon by other per<otis, who claimed (he property, for arrears of
rent for this very land, for which be could produce a receipt for the
payment of the purchase money.

I will mention two other cases. The first, that of a party of settlers
from Guernsey, who purchased a tract of land from a proprietor at a
high price, purporting to be situated on the verge of a river which
would give them easy access to it, and the means of transporting their
l)rodiice to market. Upon the faith of this statement they arrived on
the Island. Will it bo believed that the land they had paid for did not
exjj/ ? and they actually were forced to purchase other lands from
another proprietor upon which to locate themselves ?

The second, that of the Acadian French located on lot 10. These
people paid to the amount of upwards of £1000 towards purchase of (he
township. The person who received the money had no right to make
the sale, and these people are now tenants at will on the same soil, for
the proprietor has hitherto given no authority either to sell, or "-rant
leases. Can it then be wondered at, that these people, smarting under
a sense of the injustice done to them, should be amongst those inimical
to the proprietory system altogether, and that they should inoculate
others with (heir |)riiiciptes ?

I do not wish to conceal from yon, that agitation to a very consider-
able extent yef exists on the subject of Escheat, in many parts of the

1 « »l

li ■'■'

labour in redeem*

psa value on the

of surprise, that,

livalent, either in

feel dismayed (as

ived of the hard

of his manhood,

it, which he was

I he proprietor to

10 his family (ho
le of his life, with
nt toil, and over
ic sliould be dis-
eelings into the
y to listen to the
illing car to their
"lolds out to them

lie first instance,

lonjr lease? and

iio compnision.

It men, who, on

he lands without

"estimate of the

vith ; others en-

lises of the pro-

11 niany instances
' even than these
nant has actually
e legal owner of
ibscquently been
ty, for arrears of
a receipt for the

party of settlers
'proprietor at a
'' ^ liver which
ansporting- their
hey arrived on
[paid for did not
'Jer lands from

'ot 10. These
purchase of the
3 '''S'lt to make
e samo soil, for
sell, or grant
smarting under
it those inimical
lould inoculate

very consider-
ly parts of the

Island ; and you will ere this perhaps have learned from the public
papers of the Colony, that the High SherifF of King's County has
recently been resisted by a considerable body of armed persons, whilo
endeavouring to enforce nn Execution on a Judgment obtained in the
Supreme Court, for Rent, and his horses barbarously mutilated — and I
will here obsen'e, that this gentleman bears the rapulaliun (and indeed
has proved it within my knowledge) of being a person of determined
character, and one not easily to be intimidated or hindered from doing
his duty.

I have used every means in my power to convince the deluded people
that such a state of things cannot be tolerated by the Government, and
that, however I may sympathise with their situation, tiie laws must and
will be put in force ; but although I may have convinced some of tiie
more moderate, or at any rate induced them to wait patiently the result
of my mediation, it is nevertheless fair to lell you, that I consciciitiouslv
believe, that without you consent to the terms proposed to you by Sir
John Harvey, or other terms as liberal, the agitation and discontent will
continue to increase to an extent which will eventually become alarming,
and render all properly here insecure. And I may usk you, even now,
how is it possible for you, under existing circumstances, to collect your
rents by ordinary means'? If your bailiff goes to distrain, it is not at all
improbable that lie may be resisted in the first instance by persons whom
he cannot identify, and that when he returns with sufficient assistance to
execute his distress, all tangible property may be carried oft' the premises.
You cannot surely expect that, in the remote districts of this Island, the
Government can be prepared at all times, and on all occasions, with an
armed force to support your ofticers, or in other words, that the Govern-
ment is to be at the expense of collecting your rents.

I am of opinion that the remedy for these evils rests with yourselves.
Give discretionary power to your agents to relieve your tenantry of the
arrears of rent in those cases where it is impossible they can ever pay
them up. Grant them long leases at the rate custoniary in the colony,
payable in the productions of the soil at the market price ; or if you ob-
ject to long leases, let thoie you do grant contain a clause allowing the
tenant to purchase the fee simple within a specified period at twenty years
purchase, or one to ensure his being paid for his improvements at a fair
valuation, on the expiration of his term. Such concessions will, I am
convinced, remove all just cause of complaint, and render futile any
attempt at agitation.

Let me here observe, that I am recommending no visionary nor expe-
rimental system, but one that has already been tried here with complete
success, on the lands of those proprietors (and I am happy to say there
are many) who act upon it. On these lands there is no agitation or dis-
content ; on the contrary, the settlements are numerous, the farms well
cultivated, and the tenantry flourishing and tranquil. The whole of the
excitement and agitation now prevailing, is confined to the lands of pro-
prietors v\ho have hitherto refused to grant liberal terms, or to their imme-
diate vicinity, and it is to them I would particularly address myself — for it
is hardly i'air that they should be the cause, as they assuredly have been,
of bringing odium upon the body of proprietors of land in this Island in
.u'ciieral, which the majority of them do not deserve.

I shall deem it my duty to inclose a copy of this letter to Her Majesty's
Secretary of State for the Colonies, accompanied by a return of the diffisr-
Pkixce Ed. Island. G

ent townships on the Island, with the names of the proprietors, the num-
ber of the population on each, the terms they are in the habit of granting
to their tenantry, and the causes (if any) of discontent which exist. But
in order to prove to you that I am not inattentive to your real interests,
and that I have every wish, and indeed can have no other object than to
do impartial justice to all parties, I have the honour to transmit herewith
a copy of an address presented to me on my recent visit to the northern
section of King's county, (which embodies the sentiments of the inhabi-
tants of many other portions of the colony,) together with my answer
thereto, as well as the observations which I thought it necessary to make
to the very numerous assemblage who accompanied the address, and
among whom were, no doubt, many of the individuals who hnd assisted
in the resistance and assault upon the High Sheriff, to which I have before
alluded.

I have the honor to be.

Your very obedient servant,
(Signed) CHARLES AUG. FITZ ROY,

Lieutenant Governor.

rietors, tlie nura-
labit of granting
liich exist. But
ir real interests,
r object than to
ansmit herewith
to the northern
ts of the inhabi-
ith my answer
:essary to make
le address, and
kho had assisted
^■h I have before

Z ROY.

nt Governor.

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Statement of Uie number of acres occupied, and of the namber of acres

unoccupied in 1833.

Number of

Number of acres

Township.

occupied.

unoccupied.

Total.

7220

12780

20000

2460

17540

20000

1700

18300

20000

2850

17150

20000

2657

17343

20000

1661

18339

20000

2850

17150

20000

2150

17860

20000

850

19150

20000

630

19370

20000

1895

18105

20000

1418

18582

20000

4197

15803

20000

6221

13779

20000

6800

13200

20000

5988

14012

20000

14409^

5590i

20000

9570

10430

20000

12677

7323

2000O

9392

10608

20000

7940

12060

20000

3070

16930

20000

7011

12989

20000

13714

6286

20000

8320i

11679i

20000

101P6

9814

20000

7158

2842

20000

15402

4598

20000

7741

12259

20000

2960

17040

20000

5503

14497

20000

14025

5975

20000

12302

7698

20000

18271

1729

20000

12013

7987

20000

9329

10671

20000

7320

12680

20000

6053

13947

20000

3083

16917

20000

4575

15425

20000

2511

17489

20000

2929

17071

2000U

5666

M334

20000

5052

14948

20000

be namber of acrei

Total.

20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
2O00O
200OO
20000
2000O
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
20000
2000^^
20000
20000
20000

Number of

Number of acres

Township.

occupied.

uncjcupied.

Total.

6391

13609

20000

38<J0

16110

20000

13233

6767

20000

82594

I1740i

20000

103 15i

9684i

20000

12827

7173

20000

2690

17310

20000

4215

15785

20000

3397

16603

20000

2000

18000

2000(>

4007

15993

20000

5797

14203

20000

15211

4789

20000

7020

12980

200fj0

3959

16041

20000

5676

14324

20000

2678

17322

20000

5091

14909

20000

3093

16907

20000

6743

13257

20000

1 1 782

8218

20000

1050

5050

6100

3200

23800

27000

432255

900845

1333100

Charlotte ToifD
Do Royalty

734

3845

1 2721

7300

George Town
Da Royally

70
249

i 3681

4000

Prince Towa

Do Royalty

2508

\ H70

4000

Bou|hton bland

400

r'nmure hiand

700

St. Pcter'i Itland

500

Ruitico liUnd

400

Cofcrnor'i Iiland

205

441888

Prince Ed. Island.

Heturn of Township Lands levied upon for non-payment of Assessment,
in the years 1833, 1834, 1835 and 1836, together with the quantity
of Land Sold, and the amount realized upon each Township
respectively.

U ':'

No. of

Amount 1

Year.

Township.

Acres in
arrears.

No. of Acres sold.

sold for. 1

1833'

No. 3

3780

300 Acres

25 15 |i

No. 8

15570

200 do

27 li

No. U

19250 200 do 49 |1

No. 24

230 the land in arrear not found

No. 25

1777; 150 do

No. 37

1045 Paid
1138(>, Paid

No. 43

No. 44

2948 100 Acres do

25 5

No. 45 '

4515 100 do

31 10

No. 49 1

9374 Paid

No. 52

8923, 100 Acres do i

21 15

No. 57

820 130 do

54 15

1834

No. 3

3430 150 do 1

23 15

No. 8

8435 200 do

37 10

No. 18

18230 100 do

20 15

No. 17

2478 Piiid

No. 25

720 100 do
1573 200 Cto

No. 37

17 10

No. 44

2142; 100 do

No. 52

8998 200 do

25 5

No. 66

7000 100 do

17 1

1835

No. 3

1430' 200 do

No. 8

2795; 200 do

No, 18

2725i 200 do

No. 33

lOO; 100 do

No. 37

2060' 200 do

No. 44

738, 600 do

17 10

No. 45

3747 200 do

1836

No. 3

1270 300 do

No. 8

2012 Paid

No. 28

283:

J 150 do

28 5

No. 31

1811

5 1350 do

36 5

No. 36

1070; 100 do

No. 37

1572 200 do

No. 45

934- 200 do

No. 52

1083

5 300 do

44 10

n- ^

ent of Assessment,
r with tlie quantity
•n each Township

Amount
sold for.
£ 8. d.

found

25
31

21
64
23
37
20

12
17
19
'25
17
20
20
25
14
19
17
24
,22

j28
36
120
17
27

5
10

15
J5
15
10
15

|44 10

No. 5.

Prince Edward Island contains an area of 1,365,400 acres, viz :

QUEENS COUNTY.

Cliarlotlc Town, Common and Posture Lots, 7300 acres.

Townships, 23 in number, 479100 "

486400 acres.

KING'S COUNTY.

George Town, Common and Pasture Lots, 4000 acres.

Townships, 21 in number, 408000 "

412000 "

PRINCE COUNTY.

Prince Town, Common and Pasture Lots, 4000 acres.

Townships, 23 in number, 463000 "

467000 "

Total contents of the Island,

3r General's Of
29tli August, 1838.

1365400 "

Surveyor General's Office,
th

§ ■ "I

'h'l '

it'

] ' 'J

h "

l«

wm*

ISLAND

CAPE BRETON.

Queries proposed and Statements required by Major Head, in his letter
from Fredericton, dated 2(jth September, 1838, with the Answers
and Statements subjoined.

1st.—" Imports and Exports of Cape Breton, in the years 1817, 1827,
" 183(1 and 1837."

These arc not to be obtained prior to the year 1833, from which time
tlu'V arc as follows :

1833— Imports, in sterhng value, £GG,413, employing G81 vessels, of
the united tonnage of 48,319 tons, manned by 2,423 men.
—Exports, sterling value, £75,030, in 754 vessels, of 52,135 tons,
and 2,683 men.
1834— Imports, in sterling value, £61,807, in CC3 vessels, of 46,705
tons, navigated by 2,23G men.
—Exports, sterling value, £80,970, in 774 vessels, of 52,666 tons,
with 2,438 men.
1835— Imports, in sterling value. £70,882, employing 739 vessels, of
54,051 tons, and navigated by 2,593 men.
-Exports, sterling value, £91,285, in 735 vessels, of 62,023 tons,
and 2,632 men.
1 836— Imports, sterling value, £74,659, in 894 vessels, of 76,899 tons,
with 3,408 men.
—Exports, sterling value, £99,201, in 930 vessels, of 79.376 tons,
and 3,650 men.
]S.37— Imports, sterling value, £72,588, in 882 vessels, of 77,679 tons,
•and 3,698 men.
—Exports, sterhng value, £113,006, in 992 vessels, of 77,692 tons,
with 3,087 men.
Places to and from which the Exports and Imports were made in the
year I&37.

Imports. Exports.

Great Britain, £1947 10 6 stg. £4119 stg.

Channel Islands, 4935 2 2 2119 8 4

British N. America, 16060 5 10 24438 111

N. Scotia, coastwise, 47622 1 47253 8

British W. Indies, 433 19 2892 11 3

UnitedStateaof America, £1424 10 6
Brazil,

Spain. 165

£2470S 18
1686 10
5792

Deacription of articles forming the trade of the year 1837.

40786 gallons.
32232 do
do
do
do
cwt.
45 ISO lbs.

barrclii.

2751
4021
2520
2216

r-iii

imports — Rum,

Molasses,

Wine,

Brandy,

Gin.

Soft Sugar,

Tobacco,

Flour, 8010

and sundry articles of Dry Goods.
Exports—Boards, 385959 feet

Butter, 720 firkins

Cottl8,(49l75ch.rai8ed)47230 chaldrons

Dry Fish, 39254 quintals

Pickled Fish, 8500 barrels

Cattle, 588 heads

Horses, 28

And sundry other articles of agricultural produce,
potatoes, oats, wheat, &c.

Fluctuation in the export of Fish : —

1834— Exported— Dry Fish,
Pickled do.

>ii

1835
1836

1835-
1866

1837

Dry Fish,
Pickled do.
Dry Fish,
Pickled do.

35209 quintals
18789 barrels
34976 quintals
25861 barrels
31754 quintals
20470 barrels

Increase in the production of coals : —

From Sydney,
Lingan,
Sydney,
Lingan,
Sydney,
Lingan,

114G9
7112

14619

8316

3filG8

13007

chaldrons
do
do
do
do
do

Number of vessels registered in and belonging to Cape Breton : —
Vessels 353— Tonnage of do 160G2 tons

Sydney is the only free warehousing port in the island. Lingan, or
Bridgeport, is a free port for the exportation of coal in foreign vessels.
Sydney is also a port of registry, having under its survey the outports of
Arichat, Bridgeport, and North Sydney.

\7.

Irons
tals

IH'j7, and

2nd— " Returns of the militia for the years 183(i, IRj;
" 1817?"

The only returns of the militia procurable, without ajiplying to the Ad-
jutant General's Oflice at Iliilifax, for which there is not time, are the
following, taken from the printed journals of the House of Asscmhiy ; —

CAPE BRETON MILITIA.

Men capable of bearing arms between the ages of sixteen and sixty : —

In the year 1830
183;»

♦.'lO.'i

r.,()i8

S,HS8

jitiiral produce,

lintals

rrels

lintals

rrels

intals

rrels

drons
)

i
)
)

Breton : —
2 tons

d. Lingan, or
breign vessels,
the outports of

It is understood that the last return gave 7000 men, but it is e^timntctl
that not fewer than 1000, if not more, cBcape enrolment altogether. —
Therefore the general opinion is that 8000 is not a high cstiinale lor lh»'
total number of men, founded on which, as well as on other data, the popu-
lation has been for some time past returned at 45,000.

3rd — " Market prices of provisions."

Average prices : —

Wheat

£0

per bushel,

Oats

liarlcy

Potatoes

Turnips

Flour

per barrel,

Beef

r»,\ per lb.

Pork

4* "

Mutton

4 "

Fowls

per pair.

Ducks

Geese

each,

Turkies

Wild Fowl

Partridges

5 "

Blue winged Ducks

G per pair,

Geese

• • • •

each,

Venison

• • t •

Dry Fish

• • • •

per quintal.

Pickled Herrings

per barrel.

Mackerel

Salmon

Cows

each,

Oxen

Horses

••

Hogs

Sheep

6 "

Hay

per ton.

1-1 vfi

4tli — " Opinion as to llio best kinds of settlers for Cape Hreton,
" (laboiircrfl anil ngrictiUiirnlisU,) counlry, ago, and ncccsttnry capital
" for setUing."

A great portion of tlio wasto land at tlio disposal of the Crown in
lliia island is now overM|)read by unautliorizod sclllcrn, very poor emi-
grants, principally from (liu Islands nnd lli^iilands of Scotland, having
uom 8ix to thirty acres each cleared of wood and under-grass, uitli a
log cabin and stable, wliich improvements the greater nnmber of these
settlers would gladly sell for £20 or i-TiO. U is considered that the best
settlers, at the present day, wonid be ogriculturists from England,
Scotland, or Ireland, aecnstomcd to regular field labonr, and having
each a capital of about iJlOO. Hitherto persons of this ilescriptinn
would not have succeeded so well, having to commence by cutting down
the forest, and pcrtbrniing llic laborious work iiieidtMital to men beginning
in the wilderness, to which European agriculturi^its arc unused. Now,
however, they can purchase the patches of cultivated land from the
rough pioneers who have preceded them, which will enable them ut once
to keep a small stock of cattle, ntford them shelter, and give them time to
exleiui (heir clearings in the forest at their convenience. With tin;
rcmaiu«ler of their smnll funds they will purchase cattle, and such pro-
xisions as will be wanted till they harvest their own crops. They can
()l)(ain grants of 100 or 'JOO acres each, including the cultivated spots
purcha-.'d Iroiu the hist oceupaiits, on payment of the upset price of two
shilliuiis and ssnence the ueie ; and the poor settlers whose improve"
tiieiits they bouglil, would, in most instances, also pureliiise frmn tlie
Crown other lands with the money received for their iaiprovements.

TImis a doulilf pnipose would be ellected by oneouraf^ing the iiillii.x of
.selllers with small eapital. 'J"he present irregular occupation of (lie
Cnnvn laiidii woidd|be graiinally abated, without hardshi|) to the settlers;
and the counlry woidd become people<l by better iaruicrs, biingiug with
tl'.em linbils of iudn^try, and applying their agricultnial knowledge to
tlie general benelil «t the island.

The age nmst desirable b)r stich .settlers would be between twenty-
live and lorly, and they should be married per.soiis.

Labo.ners are math wanted by the few who can allonl to employ
li em. The rate of wages is thice shillings a day, williont board or
lodging, or three poimds a month, with it. Those olilaining three pounds
a nionlh during lhesumn\er are »)ftcn reduced to work during the winter
mtintbs fur tluir boiu'd and lodj-ing only. The wiges given by the year
til men '•ei vanis are £20 or i'.'U), with board, &e. ; to women, X'(i and £!•.

When agricnilnrists of the class recommended shall fix their resi-
dence in Cape Hretou, a |)roportionalc mimber of labourers will also be
reipiired, who would not, however, long remain such, while land can bo
had at the cheap rate now customary.

.Jth — "Have many persons left the island after residing there sotnc time .'"
Jt is understood that very few of the families who have at any time
settled on land in Cape Ibeton, have prematurely descried the island.
A year or two ago many persons from Cape Hretou, and from Nova
Scotia, removed to the United Stales ond to Upper Canada, being dis"
eonragcd by a succession of nidavourabic seasons in the island ; but the
j,reater part arc stated to have returned, having experienced that politi-
val troubles, sickness, and overmuch hard labour, in the countries to
which they (led, were worse evils than the climate they sought to avoid.

or Cnpc IJrctoii,
necessary capital

of the CroAvti in
i, very poor oini-
Scotlaiid, jiaviiig
Jcr-grass, ujlh a

nnnibcr of f lics(;
ercd (hat the best
i from Eiij;laii(l,
our, and haviii>>-

this dcHCriptinn

by eiittiiig down
lonieii bc^innin;;

c I scd. Now,

il land from the
blu tlicm at once
jivclhcrn time to
-Mice. With the
e, and snch pro-
ro|)s. 'I'hcy ciin
' eiiltivated .spois
pscl price of (wo
whose iiiiprovi -
irhase from I he
proveineiit-i.
,'in!i' (lie iiidiix of

cnpation of tjio
p to Ihcsedlers;
■H, bfjii^viaj;' witli
li kiiowlcil^e to

I'twcen (wentv-

ord (o einjiioy
lliont board or
\^ (liree pounds
iriii;;' the winter
ven liy (he year
• en, X'fi and £!».
II fix their rcsi-
rers will also be
liic land can be

■re some (inie ?"
e at any (inic
led (he island,
id from Nova
ida, being dis-
dand ; biit the
ed that polili-
le countries (o
ght to avoid.

Irish luFtourers arc almost tlic only class of persons who (juit (lie
island after residing in il for some time. They do not often settle on
land, but hire Uicniselvcs at (he mines, or to priva(c individualn, as ser-
vants, for a time, and (hen resort to (he United Slulua, where (he climate
takes oH' numbers of (hem.

The French inhabitants never remove. They form by far (he most
numerous and industrious class of fishermen and ship builders in this
island, of which their ancestors were the sole European inhabitants before
the British occupation.

There still exists a remnant of the Aboriginal population, generally
termed Indians ; probably about three hundred persons. With the view
of preserving these few descendants of the iMieinae Nation from extinc-
tion, rcscrvutions of ccrluin trnctn of the Crown lands have been made ;
but it is with the greatest dillieulty (hat they can be ke()t from (he en-
croachinen(s of the Scotch settlers.

(Jib—" Capabilities of each county, agricultural or otherwise, popula-
" lation, and extent ?"

The ihlund is divided into the counties of Cnpc Breton, of Hiehmond,
and of Inverness.

Till' county of Cape Breton, comprisin<» the eastern half of the island,
eonlain? a largo proportion of good land lor cultivation ; also nearly all
(he coal (ields (bat have been worked, and (lie excellent harbours of Syd-
ney, l.onishouig. Si. Anne's, and CJreat Bras d'Or, capable of receiving
iiiH"-()l-l)attIe ships, besides the lesser ports of Liiigan, Menadou, l^oraii,
tiabariis, Jjidle Bras d'Or, Aspy Bay, Ike. used by lishing craft. In it is
.siluatc the town of Sydney, ibrnierly the seal of the insular government,
and the chief place of export for coals, being also of all the |)orls of
Noitli America, — exeepling those of Newfoundlaiul, — (he nearest (o
(ireat Jbi(ain, and, (hereloie, in these two respcc(s, (he most commodious
for steam communica(ion across the Atlantic, from May to Uccendier, or
January. Lingan, or Bridgeport, is the second place of export for coals,
ami the third is at the Little Bras d'Or. The principal fishing stations
in this county are Menadou and Aspy Bay. Its cai)al)ilities for prose-
cuting- the fisheries arc not exceeded any where. The harbours are sale,
and convenient, and ample ; the fishing grountls close at band. This
coast is indeed resorted to by the fishermen from all (luarters, a great
distance from their homes. That the fisheries are not so extensively
prosecuted by the inhabitants of the country themselves arises from the
circumstance of the fishermen, — who arc chiefly French, — being located
in other [uirts, to which they have become attached, and where their
possessions lie.

^Vilha sallicienl number of persons accustomed to the pursuit, fisher-
ies could 1)0 carried on at Louisbourg, Sydney, the liras d'Or, and St.
.Nnne'tt, with greater natural advantages than in other i)arts of the
i.-land.

'I'ho soil of a great i)orticii of this county is, as already stated, excellent,
and the ninikclb at the several mining stations are convenient for the
f.irnur. 'llicre are also facilities for .shipping produce to Halifax and St.
.John's, Newl'ounilland, many vessels being owned by the inhabitants, and
engaged in trade to these ports. The northern part of this county, from
St. Anne's Harbour to Aspy Bay, is, in the interior, mountainous, and
but little known.

Caimc B. **

^Hi

There is much land in this county in the state before recommended for
farmers possessing a little ready money, and also much that would suit
persons of more ample means, being cultivated to a greater extent, and
the proprietors having obtained titles from the Crown, many of whom
would sell their farms for what would be esteemed n small sum by per-
sons accustomed to the European prices of landed property.

The rivers Baddock and Whykokomagh, in this county, are bordered
by tracts of intervale land, flooded in spring and autumn, and very fertile.

The inhabitants in the neighbourhood of Sydney are of English or
Irish origin. There are a few French in the Bras d'Or, but nearly all
the rest are Scotch.

Extent of the county, 2,490 square miles.

The county of Richmond, containing the southern portion of the Island,
and the dependency of Isle Matanc, is the least of the three, but yet con-
tains a considerable portion of good land ; and the harbours of Arichat,
St. Peter's Petit Degrat, Descousse, Ardouise, River Bourgeois, Grand
River, Archev^que, Basin of Inhabitants, and Ship harbour, though not
so capacious as those in the first county, afford great facilities for trade
and the fisheries, of which the town of Arichat, in Isle Madame is the
focus. The best fishing localities are occupied by inhabitants of French
origin, and those adapted to farming by Scotch settlers principally.

The river Inhabitants, in this county affords some fine intervale land ;
and there are many situations adapted to settlers of the sort above
recommended.

Extent of the county, 680 square miles.

The county of Inverness lies along the whole western side of the Island
from the Strait of Causo to Cape St. Lawrence, containing a great body
of fertile land, but affording few harbours, those of Port Hood, Margarite
and Cheticamp, being nearly all. Port Hood is a tolerably capacious
and secure harbour. A toT»n plot is there laid off, on which is situated a
village, where the county courts are held. A great deal of land in this
county is available for settlers of the description above named. Wheat,
oats, cattle, potatoes and other produce are exported to Halifax and St.
John's.

The Strait of Canso, in this county, is tlie great thoroughfare between the
Canadas and the West Indies, United States, and the provinces of Nova
Scotia and New Brunswick, furnishing admirable stations for mercantile
cstabiislimcnts.

There is good inlorvalc land on tlic rivers Jiidique, Mobon and Mar.,
guerite, and their branches. The latter streams issue from a large lake.
The lake and upper part of the river are settled by Scotch, but the lower
part of Marguerite, and the sea coast from its mouth to the harbour of
Cheticamp, is one of the oldest and largest French settlements. These
people are divided in their occupation, between fishing and agriculture.

Extent of the county, 1,370 square miles.

All the three counties contain a portion of the Bras d'Or Lake, an in-
land sea, connected with the ocean by the two inlets of the Great and
Little Bras d'Or. This sheet cf water is salt. It receives the rivers
Baddeck, Wa[;:amatkook, and St. Dcny's. Its shores are covered with
Scotch settlers, enjoying the advantages of fishinj^ in the immediate
vicinity of their farms. Excellent fish are taken throughout the winter
season also. The Bras d'Or accessible to shijis of the largest class, and
is capable of sheltering the united navies of the world. Tlironghout the

ommended for
lat would suit
sr extent, and
any of whom
II sum by per.

, are bordered
nd very fertile,
of English or
but nearly all

1 of the Islandj
, but yet con-
irs of Arichat,
urgeois, Grand
ir, though not
ilities for trade
adame is the
ints of French
icipally.
itervafe land ;
he sort above

; of the Island
; a great body
)od, Margarite
ihly capacious
h is situated a
f land in tiiis
med. AVheat,
alifax and St.

•e between the
inces of Nova
or mercantile

jon and Mar..

a large lake.

)ut the lower
10 harbour of
icnts. Tiiese

griculture,

Ijake, an in-
lie Great and
es the rivers
covered with
c iinniediate
ut the winter
est class, and
iroiighout the

Bras d'Or, and indeed in every part of the country, are favorable situa-
tions for mills and machinery ; also timber and every requisite for ship-
building.

The population of each separate county cannot be exactly stated, with-
out more investigation than time will allow. That of the whole Island is
considered to be 45,000, estimating it from the militia returns of men
able to bear arms and between the ages of sixteen and sixty, which amount,
nearly to 8,000.

7th. — " Observations on any points that would tend to advance the
" settlement of wild land, and lead to the improvement of the country."

An influx of agriculturists with small capital, as suggested already,
would tend greatly to the settlement and amelioration of the land, in the
manner before pointed out. The introduction of capital to aid the fish-
eries, in some proportion to that which has been devoted to the mines,
would increase their produce to an extent scarcely to be calculated ; to
the great advantage of the country generally. Not only is the introduc-
tion of capital, a consideration for improving the fisheries ; the protection
of Government is 'also loudly called for. The catch of fish has been
gradually failing, which is attributed to the practices of the United States
fishermen, who, in violation of the stipulations of treaties, approach the
shores at night with their vessels, and throwing bait into the sea, sail
away at the approach of morning, drawing off the fish from the inner
banks

Roads are very greatly needed for encouraging the settlement of the
wild lands at a distance from the coast. There is no part of the province
so deficient itj this respect ; and this leads to a mention of what is con-
sidered by the inhabitants their chief grievance, and great obstacles to
improvement of every kind. The unequal representation of the Island in
the Legislature of the Province, ever .since the destruction of its own
government, and annexation to that of Nova Scotia. The Island in ex-
tent and population is one-fourth of the whole province, and much more
in natural resources and intrinsic value. Yet the representation, even
now, is but five members out of forty-nine, and it has been much less.

Capp Breton pays into the Provincial Treasury, annually, about £1 "),000
in taxes and revenues from the mines ; and receives in return, for all its
exigencies, including roads, bridges and officers' salaries, a yearly grant
of less than £3,000 It is clear that the Island has not a due pre[)ond-
ranee in the Assembly. The inhabitants naturally conclude, that if they
had the separate government of which they were deprived, £15,000,
instead of £3000, would be disbursed in the Island, and conduce in many
ways to its prosperity, besides opening the roads. They also point to the
fact, that Cape Breton was free from public debt. That by making it part
ol Nova Scotia, the people became partakers in the debt of that province,
£80,000. They further complain that the measure was altogether illegal,
depriving them of their political rights ; in which opinion thoy have the
concurrence of the most eminent lawyers.

8th. — " Remarks on the defects of the existing system in granting or
" disposing of wild lands."

Unless the system be very defective, it may be the wiser course to tole-
rate than to change. Frequent changes have been one of the impediments
to settlers in this Island, where correct information of any kind is with

■i.: '

difficulty circulated, roads and communication ivith the secluded settle-
ments being rare. Thus many emigrants have at different times set them-
selves down on wild lands, with the understanding, that they could, on
certain terms obtain titles for their farms, and have been perplexed and
disappointed by a change of measures, before they were ready to apply for
or complete their grants.

On the introduction of the present system, fears were entertained that
it would occasion large tracts to be bought up on speculation, and sold in
detail at high prices, to the discouragement of poor settlers. This tvil,
however, has not occurred : and if the provisional regulations, hitherto
observed in Cape Breton, be sanctioned and continued, it is doubtful if
a change for another system would benefit the Island. With the appro-
bation of the Lieutenant Governor, the Commissioners have always refused
applications for the purchase of Crowu lands, on wh<ch individuals were
settled, although without permission, except in the case of those individu-
als, being themselves the purchasers. This rule obviates all unnecessary
hardship on the poorer class of unauthorised settlers, while such of them
as are in better circumstances, are not left without sufficient inducement
to obtain titles to their land, by purchases from the Crown ; because they
can, in no other way deter or prevent trespassers. Applicants for the
purchase of Crown lauds on which they have been some time settled, are
permitted to purchase at private sale, at the upset price of Crown lands
in this Island, two shilling's and sixpence the acre.

AVith these precautions, the present system does not bear hard on any
class in Cape Breton ; and at the same time, it holds out some excite-
ment to industry. Were the settlers able to obtain grants gratis, or lor
a mere trifle, the ill efl'ect would soon be apparent in the decrea!<e of in-
dustrious habits. Many of the settlers would be content to exert thcm-
selvcs no fur' her than would suffice to procure them a bare subsistence.
Such a disposition is too common even now.

It may be well to mention, that the unauthorized occupation of the
Crown lands so general in the Island, is the effect of a want of strictness
in former times. No invasion of the Crown properly is encouraged at the
present day.

9th — " Remarks on the roads, and suggestions for a better system, if
" the existing one is not perfect ?"

The greatest deficiency in this department is, as already stated, in
the annual grants uf money for roads and bridges, which have never vet
amounted to £2000 a-year for the whole island.

The fault next in im[K)rtance is not confined to Cape Breton, hut is
common to the whole Province. The rood monies arc apportioned, and
the commissioners for laying (hem out recommendod by the members of
Assembly in each county. The honourable members are but men, and
cannot be expected to be free from a leaning to appoint those persons
who sup|)ort them at elections. A shopkeeper or tavcrnkec[)cr is not
the fittest man for a road commissioner. Some uf llicni are known to
have put the money in their pockets, by employing as labourers oidv
such persons as were in their debt. They are employed as long as the
nominal day's work will go toward paying (he debt. It is needless to
expatiate on this system. No person is authorised to take cognizance of
the conduct of the road commissioners.

The want of knowledge and a deficiency of tools ore another defect,

secluded settle-
times set them-
L they could, on
I perplexed and
;ady to apply for

entertained that
:ion, and sold in
lers. This tvil,
ilations, hitherto
it is doubtful if
With the appro-
,'e always refused
individuals were
>f those individu.
s all unnecessary
liile such of them
cient inducement
ivn ; because they
pplicaiits (or the
time settled, are
of Crown lands

jcar hard on any
)ut some excite..
nts gratis, or lor
le decrease of in-
it to exert thcm-
barc subsistence.

jcupation of the
ant of strictness
ncouragcd at the

better system, if

ready staled, in
1 have never yet

Breton, but is

)portioi;od, and

the members of

e but men, and

t those persons

rnivoepcr is not

m are known to

labourers only

1 as long- as (hd

t is lu'cdicss to

vc cognizance ol

another defect,

and an impediment in the way of such road commissioners as may bo
really desirous of discharginir their trust faithfully. Another fault is,
tliat properly qualified persons arc not always employed for the road
surveys ; nor are the plans of those surveys always preserved and depo-
sited where they would be useful and accessible.

As regards a remedy in these matters, it is presumed that the deficiency
in the road grants can only be supplied by giving the island its rightful
proportion of rcpreseulatives, or by restoring its local government. The
ineflcctual mode of applying the road monies might be discontinued, and
the Lieutenant Governor might apportion such sums out of the general
grant, and appoint for commissioners such persons as should be recom-
mended by the resident nia<^is(rulc8 and respoctabio landed |)ropriofors in
the several counties. But these remedies are not tu be Joolvcd lor in the
usual course of provincial legislation.

The road surveys, and the construction and improvement of the roads
and bridges, would perhaps be best ordered by a well quuiiticd person as
supervisor for each county, or district of several counties, whose solo duly
it should be to direct the several road conunissioners, and enforce the
proper application of the money.

The plans of the road surveys would, for obvious reasons, be best placed
in the office of the Surveyor General, and in those of his deputies.

10th. — " Are the surveys in Cape Breton satisfactory, and do they
" afford securilY to settlers ; and on what plan arc (liey conducted ?"

The surveys' in Cape Breton have always been most unsatisfactory ;
indeed but few plans of general surveys exist. The plans in the Survey-
or General's ottice have mostly been comijilcd from partial surveys, made
at different times, by various persons, and agreeing so ill with each
other that it is dillicult to connect them. Here again the want of funds
is felt. The sale of the Crown lands has not produced a surplus, after
paying the ex|)enscs of executing the grants, and it is in vain to expect
a supply fionj the provincial legislature to effect the necessary general
surveys in Cape Breton. A glance at the map will show how intricately
the island is intersected by water, and therefore how indispensable such
surveys are. For want of them the unavoidable, but very exceptionable
method has been, to survey each lot only when it is ajtplied for, and
when the expense of the sinvey is met by the payment of the purchase
money of the land ; or, us in former times, by the applicant paying the
surveyor himself. Regularity is, of course, out of the question in such
circumstances, and to preserve the vaiious grants of land from interfering
with each other very diflicult.

The accompanying map of the island is very correct, for a performance
on so small a scale, but can be of little use in dividing the country into
lots. It is supposed to have been reduced from plans of a general survey
made by the French Government, but of which survey no other memorial
remains in the island.

Not a township, nor even a county boundary line, has yet been traced
in Cape Breton. Of course great confusion is inevitable in law proceed-
ings relating to landed properly, and in criminal prosecutions also, it
being often impossible to ascertain in what jurisdiction the illegal acts
were committed.

It is estimated that about 800,000 acres of land, capable of cultiva-
tion, arc remaining at the disposal of the Crown on this island, and, iu'

Capb B. *«*

fciljl

eluding mountainous tracts, &c. about one million ; of which quantity
a great proportion, and of the best quality, and most advantageously
situated, is already overspread with settlers, many altogether unau.
thorised, and many having provisional, or imperfect titles, as licenses,
tickets, warrants, &c. It is therefore evident how important it ia still,
to obtain correct general surveys, for the due subdivision of this extent
of Crown land, if not for the determination of grants already made.

AREA OF THE ISLAND.

The whole area included by the line of sea coast,

about
Deduct for the space occupied by the interior

waters.
There remains of land alone
Deduct for mountains, barren tracts, small Iakes>

&c. &c.
There remains of land fit for agricultural purposes.
Of which has been granted or sold, about
There remains, of land fit for cultivation, at the

disposal of the Crown,
And, adding the 500,000 acres of mountaineous

land, there remains at the disposal of the

iGlrown, of land of every description.

3,000,000 acres

1,000,000 do

2,000,000 do

500,000 do

1,500,000 do

700,000 do

800,0000 do

1.300,000 do

From the statement already given respecting surveys, it will be readily
understood that the estimate of the land contained in the island can only
be received as an approximation to the truth. The deduction for the
inland waters is perhaps too large. On the other hand, the total con.,
tents are probably overrated at three millions of acres. These two errors
counterbalancing each other, the results may not be materially affected
by either.

H. W. CRAWI-EY,

Comr. Crown Lands, Cape Breton.

Sydney, C. B. I7th October, 1838.

' which quantity
advantageously
il together unau-
lies, as licenses,
>rtant it ia still,
n of this extent
ady made.

000,000 acre*

000,000 do

500,000 do

TOO.OOO do

00,0000 do

300,000 do

t will be readily
island can only
duction for the
I, the total con.
rhese two errors
Serially affected

Cape Breton.

TABLE OF CONTENTS.

LOWER CANADA.

John Davidson, Esq. ono of the Commissioners of Crown Lands

in Lower Canada,

The same,
James Hastings Keru, Esq. . . . . • •

George Herman Ryland, Esq. Assistant Clerk, Executive Counci
T. A. Stayner, Esq. Deputy Post Master General, B. N. A.
Mr. Andrew Russell,

Charles Franklin Head, Esq. Major in the Army
The Honorable Dominick Daly, Secretary and Registrar ol the

Province, and Member of the Extcutive Council,
Robert Cuiustik, Esq of Ristigouche,
Henry Le Mesuuier, Esq.
James Bell Forsyth, Esq.
Mr. Patrick Daly, Land Surveyor,

The Honorable Jonathan Sewell, Chief Justice of Lower Canada,
A. C. Buchanan, Esq. Chief Aj-cnt for Emigrants
Joseph Skey, Esq. M. D. Inspector General of Hospitals
Henry Jessopp, Esq. Collector of Customs,

Joseph Morrin, Esq. M- D. . .

Charles Poole, Esq. M. D.

Reverend Edmund WiLLOUGHBY Sewell, ..

AUGUSTIN NoRBERT MORIN, Esq.

Mr. John Langevin •

Page.

,41
43
49
66

59
61
65
67
70
73
76
79
83
87
90
96
96
103

Appendix to Evidence for Lower Canada, Returns, &c. Ac. 106 to 136

UPPER CANADA.

John Radenhurst, Esq. Chief Clerk Surveyor Genl's. Office,
Richard Hill Thornhill, Esq. Chief Clerk in the Crown Lands

Office, • . • •

Charles Shirreff, Esq.

Honorable R. B. Sullivan, Member Executive Council,
Anty. Bowden Hawke, Esq. Chief Agent for Emigrants

Upper Canada, . .
CuAS. Rankin, Esq. Deputy Land Surveyor,
W. W. Baldwin, Esq. M. D. formerly M. P. P. . .
George Strang Boulton, Esq. M, P. P. . .
Henry Hindman, Esq. ..
W. B, Rob inson, Esq. M. P. P.
The Honorable and Venble. Archdeacon Strachan,
Revd. Egerton Ryerson, Wesleyan Minister,
Revd. W. T. Lynch, Minister Church of Scotland, . .
Revd. R. H. Thornton, United Secession Church,
Revd. W. Stuart, United Synod Presbyterian Church,
Revd. John Roof, Member Congregational Church,
Right Revd. Alex. Macdonald, Bishop of Regiopolis,
Appendix to Evidence for Upper Canada,

27
29

36
42
44
47
51
54
58
60
.. 61

92
63
64
65

GG to 83

I-IH: <.?*';

r;, ■ \

NOVA SCOTIA.

I. S. Morris, Esq.

Sir Rupert George, Secretary of the Province,

Mr. Silas Smith, . .

J. W. Nutting, Esq. Commissioner Court of Escheat,

Richard Brown, Esq. Mining Engineer,

Mr. James McKbnzib, Surveyor General's Office,

Chas. W. Wallace, Esq.

John Fairbanks, Esq. . . . . . ,

Lawrence Hartshorn, Esq.

William Lawson, Esq. . . . . . .

Tiie Revd. Archdeacon Willis, of N. Scotia,
The Honorahle S. Cunard,
George Young, Esq.
Appendix, . . . .

NEW BRUNSWICK.

The Honorable Thomas Baillie,

The Honorable George Shore, . .

The Venerable Arch. Deacon Coster,

The Honorable T. C. Lee, Receiver General,

James Robb, M* D. Professor Natural History,

R. Hayne, Corams. N. B. and N. S. Land Company,

J. A. Maclaughlan, Esq. . .

C. P. AVetmore, Esq. Clerk House of Assembly,

W. J. Bedill,

H. B. Rainsford, . .

Mr. Beckwith,

Mr. W. J. Berton,

Appendix,

PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND

John Wendior Le Lacheur, Esq.

His Excellency Sir Charles Fitz Roy,

Robert Hodgson,

Taos. Haviland, Esq. Treasurer of the Province,

.loiiN Lawsox, Solicitor General,

J. S. Deely, Esq. . .

George Wright, Esq. Surveyor General,

G. R. Goodman, Esq. Collector of the Customs,

Appendix, . . . . • •

CAPE BRETON.

(See Note)

Page.
1

10
18
26
33
38
42
44
46
47
42
51
52
53 to 74

1
Ifi

21
23
24
29
34
36
38
39
41
44
46 to80

»
6
7
10
13
1.')
18
21
.22to3l

Various Statements transmitted in answer to Queries from Major

Head, . . • . • • 1 to 10

S. B.— Fii the Evidence respecting Nova Scotia, it will be observed that the numbers,
or folios of Pages 25, 2G, 27 and 28, have, by mistake, been repeated ; the latter pages
•liould have been numbered 29, 30, 31 and 32, comprehending J. W. NuUing'i evidence,
and an apparent gape between folios 28 and 33 is thus occasioned.

Page.
1
10

18
:SeeNote) 26
33
38
42
44
46
47
42
51
52
. . 53 to 74

Ifi
2i
23
24
2[)
34
36
38
39
41
44
.46to80

6
7
10
13

22to3\

Major

1 to 10

that the numbers,
; the tatter pages
NuUinn's evidence.