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The following diagrams illustrate the method: L'exemplaire film6 fut reproduit grdce d la g6n6rosit6 de I'dtabiissement prdteur suivant : La bibliothdque des Archives publiques du Canada Les cartes ou les planches trop grandes pour dtre reproduites en un seul cliche sont film6es d partir de Tangle sup6rieure gauche, de gauche d droite et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images n6cessaire. Le diagramme suivant illustre la mithode : ! i 1 \ :» Br 1 2 3 4 S 6 SPEECH OF MR. C. C. COLBY, M.P., ON JESUITS' ESTATES ACT, 3>XLIY1BID IN THE HOUSE OB^ COMMONS, OTTAWA, ON TUESDAY, MARCH 26th, 1889. Mr. COLBY. lo addreesing the House I shall endeavor to confine my remarks very closely to the question now before the Chair. I do not find it necessary, in the discns- sion of that question, from my standpoint at least, to go into the record, as other speakers have done, of that remarkable order of men, the Society of the Jesuit Fathers, of their beliefs or of their conduct a century or more ago. I do not think that necessary to a proper determination oi the ques- tion now before the House. Nor shall I go into any close legal consideration of the case, as did the hon. member for North Victoria (Mr. Barron), because I think it must be decided upon other, and broader, and more liberal ideas than can be drawn from nice legal, fine-drawn, hair- spun distinctions ; and I think such remarks would have been more applicable in the Quebec Legislature at the time when the Bill referred to was under discussion, than they are in this Parliament at this time. The proposition now before the House, as I understand it, carries an implied cen- sure of the Government for not having disallowed the Act of the Quebec Legislature for the settlement of the Jesuits' estates, and a positive instruction to the Gov- C3 2) eminent to disallow it. I think we will all agree that the power of disallowance, whioh, by the Conetita- tion is vested in the Governor General and bis advisers, is a power which should be exercised with the greatest * discretion; that, in the first place, it should appear, before an attempt is made to exercise that power, that the Government has the clearest possible right to exercise it; and then it should appear that there was an obvious neces- sity for its exercise. It is a serious matter to interfere with the deliberate will of a Local Legislature uoder any circumstances whatever— the clear and deliberate will of a Local Legislature. It is a more serious matter — for the gravity is vastly magnified— when the question upon which it is attempted to counteract their will and to nullify their legislation is one which touches the most sensitive feelings, the religious sympathies and convictions of the majority of the people in the Province which is to be aflfected. ^ow, there are certain things which we must recognise as existing facts. It is true that this order of the Jesuits was at one time suppressed; that is a his- torical fact. It is equally true— and that is a present and pregnant fact which we must recognise — that this order of the Jesuits has to day, in the Province of Quebec, legal status, a status which is assured by the strongest legal sanctions of the Legislature, and which is assured by the highest sanction of the church and recognised by the whole body of the Eoman Catholic Church. So that, an attack upon the order of the Jesuits in the Pro- vince of Quebec is an attack upon the Homan Catholic Church, upon the entire body of the Boman Catholic Church, and there should foe no misapprehension upon that point. We must not delude ourselves into the belief that we are assaulting an obnoxious and a friendless power or entity that is entitled to the execration of all mankind. We must recognise the fact -and I do not know how it has come about, whether by a change in their practices or a change in their beliefs or otherwise; I have not gone into an enquiry into that point — but we must recognise it as a postiive fact that they are to-day under the OBgis of the Supreme Pontiff and of the church, and are Iraternally recognised to-day by the entire body of the church. Con- sequently, we must realise that if we nullify this Act of the Provincial Legislature as is proposed, we have not only to override a sentiment in Quebec, which is stronger in that Province than in any other in this Dominion, in favor of the maintenance of provincial rights, but we have to make up our minds to attack the solid sentiments of the 11 «' majority of the people of that Provioce io their religioas ooDvictions, and in regard to that legislation which the ma- , jority believe to be their right and daty within the lines of the Conetitation. I say, then, that we mast carefully revise oar position and see that we make no mistake. We mast see that we have a clear, and positive, and uodoabted right to do this thing ; then we must see that there is an obvious necessity for doing this thing, and then we must consider, 'n view of the integrity of our country, in view of the peace, the prosperity, the harmony and the content- ment of our people, the full, the possible, the certain con- sequences of ad< pting the coarse which is now proposed. We have a Constitution, it is true, which binds our Provirces together in a Confederation, but that is a paper bond. Tbo moment you destroy mutual good-will between the people of this country, the moment you array the people of this country in hostility— -personal and religious hostility— one against another, you have destroyed the only bond which can permanently hold us happily together. Now, I am going to limit my argument within very narrow Hues, and I maintain that if this Hoose agrees with me in these pre* mises, the right to disallow must be very clear and the daty obvious, before we undertake this serious responsi- bility, before this House goes on a step further in the direction proposed. We had the deliberately and oare- fnlly considered opinions of the Minister of Justice, and all his colleagues in the Government, that the Act of the Quebec Legislature was wholly intra vires, and that there is no legal or constitutional power in the Dominion Government to disallow it. Does not that of itself create a doubt ? Have we not also the opinion of men of eminent ability in this House and in this country, of high authority on constitutional questions, differing from the Government in politics, differing from them on mo»t every point, yet who are in agreement with them on this point, that we have no right to disallow this Act ? Then, 1 say, is there not sufficient ground to establish the only proposition I care to establish, that there is some doubt about it r Then, I say, if it is a doubtful right, we should not face the certain consequences, the disastrous consequences of disallowance. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have in the records in this Parlia- ment a closely parallel case to this, and in many respects a stronger case than this, in which Parliament has re- corded its deliberate opinion ; I refer to the New Brunswick school question, which was precipitated upon Parliament within the memory of those of us who were members of the first Parliament of Canada, precipitated upon os ^^^ at a verjr iDOonventent period, jnat on the eve of the gen- eral elections of 1872, a question tehich raised disoassioDS of a most alarming character, and ifvhioh created a degree of anxiety in the minds of every member of the Honse, which has never been equalled in the 21 years of my experience in Parliament. At that time a Catholic minority of one of the Provinces of this Dominion came before Parliament, not with any abstract proposition, bat with a clear and positive grievance. They made oat a case which aroased the sympathies of Parliament to an extent that I have never seen them aronsed before There was not in Parliament, as the records will show, an individaal member of this Hoase, on either side. Protestant or Catholic, or of any nationality, or from any Province, who did not record his vote of oen- sare against the authorities of New Bran^wick by an expres- sion of regret and a hope that the cansen of discontent woald be removed"! say not a single member of the Hoase who did not record his vote in that sense except those who wanted to go further and give a positive remedy. The Catholic minority of New Brunswick came to us and said : " Before Confederation we had the right of enjoying our own separ- ate schools ; we were receiving Government assistance in support of our own schools ; we were not compelled to send our children to the schools or to assist in maintaining the schools, which we thought dangerous to the morality and the religion of our pupilB; we enjoyed that right long before Confederation ; Govarnment assisted those schools ; we built the school houses at our own expense, the Government made appropriations for the support of thoee schools ; we had, in fact enjoyed a system of separate scnools for many years be- fore Confederation, and from Confederation up the year 18*71, when, contrary to the determined opposition of the Catholic minority, composing two^fifths of the population of New Brunswick, contrary to their protestations, the Legislature of New Brunswick, by a vote which was carried in the Upper Chamber by a majority of one, reversed that system, and compelled us to support schools to which we could not send our children, they withdrew all support from the schools which we must sustain as conscientious men ;" and they cime to thiti Parliament and asked a remedy. They said to us : " We think this is a case clearly within the 93rd section of the Constitutional Act, and we ask for remedial legislation under the 4th sub-section or for disallowance ; but if you are unwilling to apply either of these remedies, then we ask that you will memorialise the Imperial Parlia- ment to revise the Constitution and place us where we ought to have been, place us whero we euppoeed we were at the ,' time of Confederation, place na as the minorities in Ontario and Qaebeo are placed in respect to separate schools, we care not what remedy yoa apply, bat relieve as from the sitnation. Those different propositions were broaf^ht before the Hoase, and every one of them was refused. We refused to disallow the Act. Why ? Not becaase we did not believe that if fairness and equity alone were to prevail i^ oaght to be disallowed ; bat because we had a doubt as to the right to exercise that veto. The Minister of Justice of the day expressed the opinion that we had no right to disallow it ; and an hon. learned gentleman of highest authority in this House at that time, and of highest authority in this House and in this country on those matters at the present time— > I allude to the hon. member for West Durham (Air. Blake) — ezprcHsed himself as having doubts on that question. On the other hand Hon. Mr. Dorion, now Chief Justice of Quebec, Hon. Mr.JPournier, now a judge of the Supreme Court, Hon. Mr. Holton, a high authority on constitutional law, and Hon. Mr. Joly, with thirtynfederation should never make ase of saoh qaestionn for party purposes, except constrained by neces- sity, because they are not fair party weapons, and they tend to disorganise the country. I say the constitution has stood several strains of a serious kind ; but there is one strain it has not been subjected to, and I hope it may never be sub- jected to it, and it is that whore religiouH strife and alter- cation, where auimosities and feelings of the kind which grow out of exasperated religious seiitinient are evoked. We know, and I will not comment upon it, and people out- side of this House must realise, that it we pass the resolu- tion proposed it will precipitate a crisis the most dangerous that ever occurred in the history of this country, and the most dangerous that could possibly be imagined. I have no doubt, Mr. Speaker, from the manifestations of feeling which are being expressed in certain parts of the Dominion, that the very zealous Protestants ot some sections must have felt that the Protentant minority in the Province ot Que- bec have been very apathetic in the matter of the past^age of this Jesuit Settlement Act. I believe there is nowhere in this Dominion a body of Protestants more willing to vin- V ite their rights, more wilting to make sacrifices for the preservation ot their rights than are the Protestants of the Province of Quebec. 1 do not believe they are disloyal to Protestant ideas. But the Protectants of the Province of Quebec have lived for many years in close relation and in close contact with their fellow-citizens of a different reli- gion, and many prejudices which the one might otherwise feel against the other have been worn away by contact. The Protestants and the Catholics of the Province of Que- bec, so far as I know their relations, live together happily upon mutually respecting terms, each respecting tho other's rights, each respecting even the other's sensibili- ties and prejudices, and co-operating together, working together, for what they believe to be for the common inter- ests, without jealousy, without triction, without over-sensi- tiveness, recognising the good things in each other ; if they differ, quietly differing, and not making themselves ob- noxious to each other. These are the relbtions which have grown out of long yoars of porsonal contact^ living tOj^ether side by side, meeting and knowing each other. That is a happy condition of affairs, but it is an actual condition of^ affairs in those parts of the Province with which I am personally aoqaainted. That ia not a oon- ditioD of affairs tnat the Frotestants of Qaebeo desire to have disturbed. The ProtestaDts of Qaebeo, and I think I fairly voice their sentiments, acknowledge the fact — if they do not acknowledge it to be so, it is a fact — that there never was a minority in any country treated with more rastioe, with more liMrality, with more generosity than the Protestant minority of the Province of Qaebeo have been treated, irrespective of political parties. They have always hcd the control of affairs that mobt concerned them, those matters connected with education and other matters concern- ing which the Protestants were most interested aa Protest- ants, and they have had as mnch control over saoh questions a8 if they Lad had an entire Legisl&tare of Protestants ; f\ej have not been meddled with, they have simply been per- mitted to manage their own affairs and thej have not felt that they were in a minority in any iostance that I rcool- leot. Look at the political sentiment also. The Liberal party of Quebec elected as its leader for many years that noble man whom we all respect, Mr. Joly, a Protestant. They were not jealous, they had no objection on account of his Protestantism to serving under a leader whom they re- cognised as an able man whose views were in political ac- cord with their own. The Conservative Government were equally liberal. Why, daring the Conservative regime in Quebec, perhaps the most important office in the Cabinet had all along been held by a good old orthodox Presbyterian Treasurer, Mr. Robertson, and we were allowed during that regime, perhaps, an undae represcDtation in the GK)vernment of the Province. We had two members, able and influential men, in a Cabinet of seven, which is certainly an undue proportion, and they were men of influence and men of character and ability. So that in all these respects we have nothing to complain of, and, perhaps, it is for that reason that we do not wish unnecessarily to provoke an issue which would result in the disturbance of those kindly relations. Then, again — and I know it inflaenced some men of high standing among the Protestants of that Province— we are finding Protestants and Catholics alike, Protestant and Catholic clergymen, standing un a common platform in the advocacy of matters which both think concern the well- being of the people. It is not very long ago, if I re- collect aright, when His Eminence Cardinal Tasohereau presided over a meeting held by Catholics and Protestants to consult with regard to the L-)st legislation to be had on the subject of temperance. Leading men of both churches are working together to promote the boat enda of the com- 9 mnnity as viewed from their oommon standpoint. Tiiat ia a oondition of aifairs which had been recogaised by many Protestants who are interested in the cause of temperance aa one which should be perpetuated. I simply instance these things to illustrate the friendly sentiment, and to show the cordial relations existing between Protestants and Catholics io the Province of Quebec and the desirability from the point of view of either that tho^e relations, friendly co- operative relations as they are, should not be disturbed. Again, let us consider what would have been the reuult if wo had precipitated an agitation, if we had made the attack, or if we had raised this issue in which we were sure to be de> feated. I may say here, which is a fact, that there is hardly a constituency in the Province of Quebec in which either the Soman Catholic electors are not in an actual majority, or in which they do not hold the balance of power. It is attributed to an hon. member of this House — I do not know how truly — that he said the other day with regard to the French Koman Catholics that they considered first their religion, second their nation all y, and third their party, and I believe that this is truly said of them. We saw in the great change that was made at the last elections in the Province of Quebec what the national feeling when appealed to would exhibit. I think it is true that the religious sentiment is the highest with the French Canadian people, and if it is above nationality, if it is above party, if that sentiment is prepared to ally itself witi one party or another party and that the question of party is a minor con- rideration, then in almost every constituency of the Prov< ince of Quebec the Protestants would be deprived of their just representation in the Legislature of the Province. There was nothing to be gained by raising an issue in which the result was a foregone conclusion and which issue could not by any possibility have resulted favorably to the Pro- testants. For these reasons what course was pursued ? The Protestants of Quebec have never acknowledged that the Jesuit body had a legal claim to the restoration of those estates. The press has never acknowledged it, the publio men have never acknowledged it, the pulpit has never acknowledged it. Further than that ^he Protestants of Quebec have never acknowledged that the Jesuits had a moral claim to the restoration of those estates, and they placed themselves deliberately on record by their speeches m the Legislature on that pomL It was a most bitter and nauseous pill they had to swallow when the name of the Pope was foisted into that Act. But that objection was more a matter of sentiment than otherwise. Assuming that So 10 the thing waa to be done, astnming that $400,000 was to be divided among certain Roman Catholic institutione, it certainly waa desirable, from every standpoint, that that distribution should be final ; that it shoold not be an ever- recurring qaestion and a reference to the highest authority of the church, the only one power which could make that a final settlement bad its advantages* There is no doubt about that* If it was atjknowledged that a sum of money ehonld be distributee^* among the'^^tholio ine^itutions it was debivablo that it Bhould be so di^„.buted as o satisfy those who would receive it, and it was desirable that it should be reooffnised as a final settlement, so that, from a practical standpoint, it might have been attended with certain wiso and practical advantages if this reference were made ; but I say that, as a matter of sentiment^ it was not a pleasant thing to Piotestants that the Pope shouln be consulted. Tet the Protestant press did nothing more than to record their pro* tests affainst it. I do no^ think that any one who knows the editor of the Montreal Witness will suspect him to be a man who would not proclaim his Protestant principles if assailed, or who wonla truckle to Boman Catholics ] and yet, if I recollect aright, the Montreal WitnesSt which is the most outspoken and the most advanced Protestant news- paper in the Province of Quebec, had but two mild edi- torials while this thing was ^oing on. It published the reports of proceedings as news items, but it simply quietly objected to the proposition that the Jesuits had either a moral or a legal right to what they askod. It did not say to its readers : " Tour rights have been assailed — agitate I agitate I arouse yourselves I" It said nothing of the kind. The pulpit is usually outspoken when the pulpit feels that rights dear to it are invaded ; yet no man that I have heard of from the pulpit ever called upon his confirregation or upon the people to agitate on this question, itb expressed his views upon it ; and there is no doubt as to the Protestant view on the subject ; it is not the Catholic view of the question ; and while the Protest- ants have never surrendered tiieir views, they have placed them quietly on record, and they have con- tented themselveier with that. I do not read aU the newspapers of the country, but I do read tha«. great organ of public opinion, the Montreal Heraldy and I do not recollect that the Montreal Herald ever put in anything more than a mild protest. It did not call on the people to " agitatel agitate !" The Montreal Gazette was, pernaps, the most pronounced in its utterances on the question, but it merely expressed its views, and did not call upon the people '■ '» 11 to agitate the quefltion. There were no petitions that I know of going np to the Legisiatare from any portion of the Protestant community, asking it not 1o pass that Bill. So, if the Proto8tant5 of Qaobeo nay be fairly orediiec'. by the Protemtanta of Ontario and other Provinces as bein;;^ men of equal ability with themselves, of oqo&! fidelity to the prin- ciples of Christianity, of equal capacity to judge with regard to the fitness of things and what was right or wron2, what was opportune or inopportune, if they may be fair^ credited with equal opportunities of judging, I think they ahould be spared the animadversions which some arc in- clined to oast on them. I think they understood the situa- tion better, and I think they were as true to the principles of Christianity as the blatant men are now who are trying to agitate the country after the thing is done, and when there is no good object to be served. I think they are equally true, equally intelligent, equally devoted to the cause ot Protes- tantism, and i think they are in a better position to know what is best for them, from their individual standpoint. At all events, if the Government are censurable for not having disallowed this Act, what opprobrium should not be cast on the Protestant minority of Quebec for not having protested against it, as the minority of New Brunswick did against the school law in that Province. It was because they felt and realised no actual grievance, and because they did not want^ for a sentimental grievance, to fight in a hopeless cause, to arouse animosity ,» to disturb the relations which are bene- £oial and in the interest of the whole community. Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not care to protract my remarks longer. I am a Protestant. The Boman Catholic Churoh~-I will not speak of it as a religious body — I look upon to-day, speaking of it from a political standpoint and a political standpoint only — as one of the strongest if not the strongest bulwark we have in our country against what I oonoeive to be the most dangerous element abroad in the earth to-day. The Boman Catholic Church recognises the supremacy of authority; it teaches observance to law; it teaches respect for the good order and constituted author- ities of society. It does that and there is need of such teaching ; for the most dangerous enemy abroad to-day in this land and on this continent) is a spirit of infidelity ; is a spirit of anarchy, which has no respect for any insti- tution, human or divine ; which seeks to drag down all constituted authorities ; emperors, kings, presidents from their seats ; the Almighty from the throne of the universe, and lift up the goddess of Beason to the place of hignest authority. This dangerous enemy, this insidious enemy, ia . IS infeotiog the popular mind, not so maoh in Canada — thanka, largely to the safeguards thrown aboul its people by the Boman Oaiholio Churoh — aa in the neighboring Kepublio. If there is a danger in that country and in this more to be dread tid than all others it i& to my mind that spirit of infi- delity and anarchy, that dostrucf.iTe insidious spirit, and it C&c ^ best combated by that great spiritual power which upholds Authority and law, whose very existence is depen- dent on the idea of authority, which cannot exist as a church or an institution of influence except upon the idea of authority and the observance of law, whose teachings are all in that direction. I do not believe it is in the interest of thi*- Dominion to alienate, by any undue or unnecessary atta^^^ "iny one of the great powers upon which we must depend for the maintenance of oar most cherished principles and institutions. I believe. Sir, that we have a duty to per- form to each other, and that duty I have indicated. I did not intend to trespass on the House so long as I h