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Les diagrammes suivants iliustrent la mAthode. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 UNIVERSITY QUESTION: TUB REV. DR. RY KRSUN'S DEFENCE OF THE WESLE Y AN PETITIONS I TO THE LEGISLATURE, A.NU OF DENOMINATIONAL COLLEGES AS PAUT OF OUn SVaTF.M OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, IN REPLY TO DR. WILSON AND MR. LANGTON, BEFORE A SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. With an Appendix: containing Replies to Slutemenh bi/ the Hon. Oeorge Brown, M.P.P. REPORTED MY ARTHUR HARVEY, ESQ., AND REVISED BY THE AUTHOR. QUEBEC: PRINTED BY THOMPSON & CO., ST. URSULE STREET 1860. NOTICE. From the Quebec Morning Chronicle, April 27, 18G0. " The Parliamentary Committee on the subject of tlio Toronto University Endowment, concluded taking evidence yesterday. The great features of the discussion which has taken place in the Committee Room, have been the speeches of Professor Wilnon and Dr. Ryerson; thefirst on the side of the Univer- sity, and the second on the side of the Sects. The orations of these gentlemen were beautifully spiced with personalities ; and yesterday, we are told, the speech of the Upper Canada Superintendent of Education merged pathetically towards the close into a flood of tears, quite affecting to behold. Stern Legislators wore found perceptibly and audibly blubbering, while the friends of the reverend speaker were altogether overcome." UNIVERSITY QUESTION: DR. RYERSON'S DEFENCE, &c., IN REPLY TO DR. WILSON AND MR. LANGTON, concluded Committee [le Univer- ally spiced tendent of lid. Stem ad speaker COMMITTEE Present : Wednesday^ 25«A April, 1860. MET. The Honorable MALCOLM CAMERON, Chairman. " Mr. Cayley, « " Foley, " McCann, " ROBLIN, " Simpson, " Wilson. The Reverends Messrs. Cook, Ryerson, Stinson, Nelles and Poole were in attendance. John Langton, Esquire, Vice Chancellor, and Professor Wihon of University of Toronto, were in attendance. Dr. Ryerson's Reply to Dr. Wilson and Mr. Langton's Statements. Dr. Ryerson addressed the Chairman and Committee as follows : — Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen, I am quite aware of the disadvantage under which I appear before you to- day. I am not insensible of the prejudices Avhich may have been excited in the minds of many individuals by the occurrences of the last few days ; I am not in- sensible of the imprehsions which some of the questions and statements may have made upon the minds of Members of the Committee as well as others ; I am not at all insensible of the fact that the attempt has been ma le to turn the issue, not on the great question which demands attention, but upon my merits or demerits, my standing as a man, and the course which I have pursued. This subject, of very little importance to the Committee, of comparatively little importance to the coun- try, possesses a great deal of importance to myself. No man can stand in the presence of the Representatives of the People ; no man can stand, as I feel myself standing this morning, not merely in the presence of a Committee, but, as it were, in the presence of my native country, the land of my birth, affections, labors, hopes, without experiencing the deepest emotion. But how much more is that the case when attempts have been made, of the most unprecedented kind, to deprive me of all that is dear to me as a man, as a parent, as a public oflScer, as a minister of the Christian Church. More especially do I thus feel, because reading and arrang- ing the papers on this subject, to which my attention has been called, occupied me until five o'clock this morning. Rising to address you under such circumstances and emotions, I respectfully crave the impartial consideration of the Committee and throw myself on their generous indulgence. Sir, the position of the question which demands our consideration this day is one altogether peculiar, and I will venture to say, unparallelled in this or any other country. The individuals connected with myself — the party unconnected with what may he called the National University of the country, stand as the conservators of a high standard of education, and appear heforeyou as the advocates of a thorough course of training that will discipline, in the most effectual manner, the powers of the mind and prepare the youth of our country for those pursuits and those engagements which demand their attention as men, Christians, and patriots, while the very persons to whom has been allotted this great interest, this important trust, stand before you as the advocates of a reduction, of a puerile system which has never invigorated the mind, or raised up great men in any country ; Avhich can never lay deep and broad the foundations of intellectual grandeur and power anywhere, but which is characterized by that superficiality which marks the proceedings of the educational institutions in the ncAV and Western States of the neighbouring Republic. Sir, I feel proud of the position I occupy ; that if I have gone to an extreme, I have gone to the proper extreme, that even if I may have pressed my views to an extent beyond the present standing, the present capabilities of the Province, my views have been upward, my course has been onward, my attempt has been to invigorate Canada with an intellect and a power, a science and a literature that will stand unabashed in the presence of any other country, while the very men who should have raised our educational standard to the highest point, Avho should have been the leaders in adopting a high and thorough course, have confessed during the discussion of this question that the former standard was too high, and that they have been levelling it down, incorporating with it speculations which have never elevated the institutions of any coun^^vy, and adopting a course of proceedings which never advanced any nation to the position to which I hope in God my native country will attain. There is another peculiarity in the position of this question, and of the circumstances under which I appear before you this morning. It is that of collision ; that of conflict with parties who are arrayed on the other side of this ([uestion : it is to a certain extent that of trial in regard to a richly endowed Institution, and the en- quiry naturally suggests itself, to whom is due the origin of this position ? The attempt has been made throughout these proceedings to throw the blame on the petitioners, and more especially on myself, and to inculpate me Avith the entire res- ponsibility of the mutually hostile position that the different parties in your presence occupy during this investigation. But what are the facts of the case, and who are the originators of the state of collision which has characterized this investiga- tion ? The resolutions on which these proceedings have taken place were adopted by the Wesleyan Conference in June last. Now, whatever other changes may have taken place, I still adhere to the people of my youth, who were the early instruments of all the religious instruction I received until I attained maidiood. Whether they are a polished and learned or a despised people, I still am not ashamed of them nor of the humblest of their advocates or professoi-s. I stand before you without ablush, in immediate connection, and identified with that people. The resolutions that were adopted by the Conference, in pursuance of which the Conference appoint- ed a large Executive Committee, consisting of nearly one hundred of the most ex- perienced members of their body, to prepare the memorial which has been presented to Parliament, are these : " Resolved, 1st. That it is the conviction of a large proportion, if not a large majority of the inhabitants of Canada, that their sons, in pursuing the higher branches of education (which cannot be acquired in day schools, and rarely without the youth going to a distance from the paternal roof and oversight) should be placed in institutions in which their religious instruction and moral oversight, as The well as their literary training, are carefully watched over and duly provided for ; a conviction practically evident by the fact, that not only the incmhors of the Wesleyan Methodist Church, and other Methodists, but the members (»f the Churches of England, Scotland and Rome have contri])uted largely, and exerted themselves to establish colleges and higher seminaries of learning, for the superior education of their children. " 2nd. That no provision for instruction in secular learning alone, can compensate for the absence of provision, or care, for the religious and moral in- struction of youth in the most exposed, critical and eventful period of their lives. " 3rd. That it is of tlie highest importance to the best interests of Canada, that the Legislative provision for superior education should be in harmony with the conscientious convictions and circumstances of the religious persuasions who virtually constitute the Christianity of the country. " 4th. That the exclusive application of the Legislative provision for superior education, to the endowment of a college for the education of the sons of that class of parents alone Avho wish to educate their sons in a non-denominational institution, irrespective of their religious principles and moral character, to the exclusion of those classes of parents who wish to educate their sons in colleges or seminaries where a paternal care is bestowed upon their moral and religious interests, at the same time that they are carefully and thoroughly taught in secular learning ; is grossly illiberal, partial, unjust and unpatriotic, and merits the severest reprobation of every liberal and right-minded man of every religious persuasion and party in the country. " .5th. That the ministers and members of the Wesleyan ^lethodist Church, aided by the liberal co-operation of many other friends of Christian education, have largely and long contributed to establish and sustain Victoria college, in Avhich pro- vision is made for the religious instruction and oversight of students, independent of any Legislative aid — in which there are fifty-nine students in the Faculty of Arts, besides more than two hundred pupils and students in preparatory and special classes — in which no religious test is permitted by the charter in the admission of any student, or pupil, and in which many hundreds of youths of different religious persuasions, have been educated and prcp.ared for professional and other pursuits, many of whom have already honorably distinguished themselves in the clerical, legal and medical professions, as also in mercantile and other branches of business. " 6th. That Victoria College is justly entitled to share in the Legislative pro- vision for superior education, according to the number of students in the Collegiate and Academical courses of instruction. '' 7th. That we affectionately entreat the members of our church to use their influence to elect, as far as possible, public men who are favorable to the views, expressed in the foregoing resolutions, and do equal justice to those who wish to give a superior religious education to the youth of the country, as well as those who desire for their sons a non-religious education alone. "8th, That a copy of these resolutions be laid before the quarterly meetingof each Circuit, for the consideration and co-operation ofour]official brethren throughout the Province." These Hcsolutions were laid before the country, and what was their reception by the University College advocates ? They were received by attacks upon the Wesleyan body, upon their Collegiate institution, upon other Colleges in the coun- try, and upon myself individually These attacks came from the part of the advo- cates of University College, whe drew their inspiration, no doubt, very largely 6 from those immodiutcly and directly connected with thatinHtitution. The Wcslcyan body were spoken of as robbers of a public fund ; their institution wai? denounced as a mean, contemptible school, unworthy of the name of a college ; and every possible term of opprobrium was used as re;^ards myself. These attacks lasted from Juno until the following autumn, while 1 never said a word or wrote a line. Yet the resolutions of the Conference simply treated of a general principle. What was the result ? Why, that the advocates of the Wesleyan Conference were compelled in self-defence, in defence of their college and other colleges of similar character, to say that they had an equal claim to public consideration with Univer- sity College, that there was nothing in it which should give such a lofty character to its pretensions. The advocates of University College said that was the only College in the country worthy of the name, the only one to which any sort of respect should be paid ; and the advocates of the Conference were thus forced to assume the position of comparison, which they did not originally contemplate. Had the writers who drew their inspiration from University College met these re- solutions by arguments as to the principles on which a great national system of education shall be based, instead of by attacks on the Wesleyan body, the attitude of collision Avould not have been witnessed. But when the large Committee appointed by Conference, consisting of between GO and 100 members, met for the purpose of bringing the ((uestion into the immediate view of Parliament, they found themselves compelled to institute and pursue that very enquiry into the merits of the educational course of University College, in justification of their own institution and claims. If, then, there has been anything personal, unfriendly, unpleasant, in this investigation, the indiscreet advocates of University College have themselves to blame. They courted, and they must bear the consequences of the quarrel. I have said that from June to November, I wrote not a word, but when the memorial was prepared by the Committee to whom it was given to prepare it, then, under the auspices of that Committee, the subsequent discussion took place, and papers were prepared in illustration and proof of the complamts and statements of the memorial. Were we to blame for this ? I would ask any member of this Committee if he himself, with a cane in his hand, were pursued day after day and week after week by barking curs, that not only constantly annoyed but occasionally bit him, would he not repel them by an occasional rap on the head ? When the advocates of the Wesleyan Conference felt that they had the material to refute the imputations thrown upon them — ample material, not only to defend their cwn in- stitution, but to shew that it stood upon equal ground with those who made exclu- sive pretensions to graduateship or to anything like scholarly judgment in devising a system of superior education for the people of Upper Canada, they would have been cowards and poltroons had they not accepted the challenge thus thrown down, and been ready to meet their opponent 3 here or any where else, face to face, upon the ground of fact, principle and justice. Then, Sir, instead of entering into this question as they should, the attention of this Committee and of the country has been turned from the great issues and fixed upon myself. My sins have been the theme of past days' investigation and remark; my infirmities, weaknesses, in- consistencies and demerits have been the substance of all that has been pressed upon your attention day after day, and the text of the two speeches to which I am now replying, each upwards of two hours in length. I confess that I have infirmi- ties and sins but at the same time I submit that they have no connection with the real questiou before the Committee ; yet, as they have been brought before you, I may allude to what has been said, although, w'lile the attempt has been made to fix upon me the responsibility of all that has been done, the parties very well know that of the only two points on which they rest their charge, — the one de- lating to scholarships is confuted by the minutes ; the other relating to exami- i ■i ■^ nations la sh' \vn by tho Appendix, printed in the Journals of the House of As- sembly, for iHoO, to havo been confined to IHM. With those remarks, Sir, I proceed immediately to tlie subjects which claim tho special attention of the Committee, and shall notice in the first place the pre- tensions and statements of Dr. Wilson alone ; in the second, tho statements com- mon to both Drs. Wilson and Laiuflon ; in tho third pluco my own estimates for the expenses of erecting buildings suited to a Provincial University ; and, lastly, tho questions which demand the decision and consideration of the Committee, I am to notice, then, in the first place, the pretensions and statements of Dr. WUaon alone. Ho placed himself before you as tho Representative of University College, while ho adverted to Mr. Lanpton as the Ilepresentative of the Senate. Sir, tho assumptions Dr. Wilson made, as well as the manner in which ho referred to others, arc not unworthy the attention of Committee, or without their proper moral and useful lessons. Dr. Wilson, in the first place, made an eulogy on tho Faculty of University College, lie spoke of each member of tho Faculty as characterised by some superior attainments and excellencies, and described himself, last but not least, as a man who had attained some distinction in his own country before he came to " this Canada of ours" — (his favorite expression). After this description, he said to you; — Are not we fit to be entrusted with determining the College educa- tion of your youth, one of us being from Edinburgii, another from Oxford, another from London, another from Cambridge, another from Dublin, and another from Padua, tho city of "relics ?" We, he continued, have anxiously devised a system of Education, and sometimes we have sat up until after midnight in doing so. This is the assumption, this the basis of many of the subsequent remarks addressed by that gentleman to the Committee. Now, Sir, I think that Dr. Wilson, and the other gentlemen to whom he referred, from whose attainments and abilities I wish to detract nothing, must themselves admit that they came to this country as teachers — he of English literature lud language ; the rest of certain other branches. He, however, seems to think they did not come for that purpose only, but for the more noble, exalted, almost legislative purpose of giving to the people of Canada a system of collegiate instruction. Dr. Wilson says, — Shall not we be entrusted with determining this question — we all graduates, we all men from old Universi- ties, and will you pretend, people of Canada, to dictate to us, learned persons, what kind of superior education shall be adopted for the training of your youth ? Sir, I went to Europe for the purpose of obtaining persons qualified for special work, but I did not go to them to dictate the kind of education to be given here or the manner of giving it. I procured them to carry out a system already devised for this country, not to dictate one to us, much less to do so in the assuming tone in which these words were addressed to you tho other day. I think these gentlemen, whatever may be their talents, whatever may be their attainments, ii took considerably the purpose for which they were brought to this country, when th y set themselves up for judges as to what kind of Superior Education the people should receive from them. The people of this country have devised a system for themselves, and these gentlemen were brought here as instruments to carry it out. When they depart from the po- sition of laborers in the work appointed and assume to be dictators, they sadly mistake their ofiice. There are, however, other persons besides Dr. Wilson, who think that because they have come across the Atlantic, they are alone wise, and that Canadians are to accept blindly the dictatorial Jogmas they may put forth. Sir, although our country may bo young, yet the intellect of a country does not depend upon its age. There may be a vigor of intellect, a self-reliance, an energy and perseverance in the very youth of a country, that will not bow down to exotic dictation oi assumption. The people of Upper Canada know their own wants, and did not send to one gentleman from Edinburgh, another from Lon- 8 don, &c., to tell them ■'.vhat kind of education they shall have. But I doubt whether Dr. Wilson has been authorized by his colleagues to make such as- sumptions, especially by the President of the College, who, I believe, has reluctantly submitted to much that has been done in regard to both the standard of maf 'iculation and the system of Options. Then, Sir, in pursuance of the same line of remarks, the same kind of assumption. Dr. Wilson told you that I was altogether incompetent to decide upon questions of \\m kind. Dr. Ryci'son, he said, was not a graduate, har never enjoyed the advantage of a College education, and was to be blamed for dealing with subjects the details of which he did not comprehend. Now the principle which lies at the foundation of this assumption and imputation is, that no man who has not been trained up in a Uni- versity is able to judge or decide upon anything that pertains to University College, — an assumption Avhich, I am sure, will not be very readily submitted to by ths people of " this Canada of ours". A man, Sir, may never liave graduated at a University and yet have acquired more knoAvledge than half its graduates. Going within the walls of a College is one thing, and pursuing the subjects of enquiry and investigation involved in a College course is another ; and that man who pretends that one who has not gone to College is unacquainted with what are the proper subjects of a Collegiate education, and incapable of judging of the course which should be studied, is a man who must stand before us, in this respect at least, as one of the " relics" of past ages, who will not be much tolerated in this our day. If I am on this account proscribed from being connect- ed with the direction of University education, I stand on the same ground with the late Sir James and Andreiv Stuart of Quebec, two minds that adorned the horizon of this country with a spledour unequalled in our day. I stand on common ground Avitb Archdeacon Bethuiie, of Cobourg, one of the most refined men of the coun- try ; on common ground with the late Hon. Robert Baldwin, one of the most pat»*iotic men of Canada, whose memory we all revere. I stand too in the same pos i as the late Sir James Macaulay, one of the most learned and indefatigable jurists that ever sat on the bench of Upper Canada ; on common ground Avith the Chancellor of Toronto University, Judge Burns; so that if I am to be proscribed from deciding on this question, the Chancellor himself is an intruder on the ground he now occupies. I stand on common ground with Sir J. B. Robinson, the Chief Justice of Upper Canada, one of the most accomplished men, the finest intellects, the most profound jurists of our day, of whom Sir Robert Peel said on one occasion, "he was the cleverest man he ever met." Then, Sir, if this assumption be true, what business has the Committee with the question before it ? There is but one member of it a graduate, the Hon. Mr. Cayley, and all the others must sit down in silence and leave clie report to his dictation, inspired by the gentlemen of whom he is the " organ". For what business have you laymen, who never graduated at a University, with the affairs of the Educational Institutions of our country ? You are not competent, you are undertaking to decide a question of which you can know nothing ! On that prijiciple too, I may ask, what business have legal and farming gentlemen upstairs to deal with the mercantile business of the country ? How are merchants and farmers to judge of laws ? They are not lawyers, they never studied in a Lawyer's oSice or passed an examination for admission as Barristers. Let them sit down then and receive their laws at the hands of the learned gentlemen of the bar. What business have Mr. (xdlt and other gentlemen to interfere with questions of political economy — they were never at a College where political economy was taught, so that what can they know about it ? What business has the whole Legislature of Canada to deal with any questions of civil polity — perhaps not ono of them ever attended a course of lectures on Ciril Polity? If you proscribe me, you proscribe Parliament itself from judging of Civil Polity, 9 Political Economy, Jurisprudence, for its incnibers never ^verc at institu- tions where they were tauglit ! That, Sir, is the doctrine the learned I'ro- fcssor of History in University College has announced to the mend)ers of this Connnittce for the guidance of themselves and of the country ! That, Sir, is the new legal light that emanates from University College I I con- gratulate the learned gentleman on the discover^' he has made, the light ho is pouring "on this Canada of ours." Then, Sir, I have only to add on this branch of the ^•i;bj(>ct, that you have bat to carry the argument a step farther, and ask what claim that gentleman himself has to support his pretensions? Is he a graduate himself 'i His own evidence shewed yesterday that he had never passed even a matriculation examination, that he took no degree at Edinburgh, and that the degree he holds is purely honorary, like my o^vn. If Dr. Cook Avere here he could tell you that there is no matriculation examination at Edinburgh, and no ex- amination at all until the degree is taken. Mcan\vhile, the students attend the lectures of the Professors of Greek, Latin, &c., for so many terms, so many days in each term, and then get certificates from those Professors as to their diligence in attending. So unsatisfactory is this plan that the Church of Scotland would not admit it as a qualification for their ministers — they themselves require a literary as well as a theological examination from their students before they will admit them to be intellectually qualified for the service of the church. I might have gone up to Edinburgh, attended a fow lectures here and a few lectures there, and come out again with the assumption that you people of Canada knew nothing about what is proper as a system of education. I feel reluctant to prosecute this subject, but when a gentleman has assailed mo on this ground, I throw back the charge, and I say that it ill become" him to make either imputations or assumptions of this des- cription. Sir, I have no hesitation at all in comparing what I have done for my native land with what that gentleman has done for his, and our claims to the grati- tude of our respective countries. He, to be sure, has published a book, but it was a book upon " relics," a book upon antiquities ; and I have myself seen in Edin- burgh a museum of " relics" arranged by him. He has a peculiu* affinity for sub- jects of that description, and in his leisure moments in this country has devoted himself to the disembowelling the cemeteries of the Indian tribes, in seeking up the tomahawks, pipes and tobacco which may be found there, and writing essays upon them. But look to my efforts, my period of labor for 3.5 years, and say whether the imputations of that gentleman are deserved. I can appeal to the re- presentatives of the Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, whether they have not availed themselves of tho labor I have performed in this country for the education of our youth. I can appeal to the Australian Colonics, where my regu- lations and School Act have been published under the auspices of the Government. The Secretary of the Province of Adelaide lately visited this country in order to make furthf r enquiries witii a view of introducing our whole syotem as far as pos- sible in connection with the Municipal system of those Countries. I appeal to the Province of New Brunswick, the hmd of my sainted mother. Five years ago I went down thither as one of a Commission to investigate their Collegiate system, which had been the subject of litigation as keen as that which was connected with King's College in this country. 1 prepared a repox't at tho request of the authori- ties, and drafted a ))ill. The Government that was then in power went out, anoth- er came in — and I received but a few weeks since a letter from the present Attorney Genoral there, saying that the bill I prepared five years ago had been sanctioned by the Legislature, and, being reserved for the Royal Assent, had re- ceived tho approbation of Her Majesty. Although I am not a graduate of a Uni- versity, and should bo therefore excluded under tho prescriptive principle of the gentleman who has attacked me, from meddling with Universities at all, I have made 10 this contribution to the furtherance of Superior Education in our neighboring Pro- vince. Why should I speak of the Common School system I have been mainly concerned in introducing here ? I will only say that Lord Lanndoume, that Nes- tor of British statesmen, observed some years ago, that no greater blessing could be conferred upon Eiiglanil>!i^ r had read in a book called " Essays on Christian Union," and Ifound It in the /.rtrar.v ui Dr. Cook. Here is an extract from it, written by a Presbyte- rian Minister in Scotland, in one of the prize Essays on Christian Union : " In no country where religious freedom is enjoyed, is party spirit more pre- valent. In some it is more o.Tensively displayed, and more deeply tinged with ma- levolence ; but in none is it more widely spread and more tenacious of its little pe- culiarities." * * * * *' This hot and schismatic spirit, which 18 to a greatci* or loss extent pervades all the religious parties in Scotland, does not spring from groat conscientious differences as to doctrine or Church order. Tho Church of Scotland, the llcformed Synod, the Secession Church, the Relief, tho United Original Seceders, and the Free Church, are all Presbyterian in their ec- clesiastical polity ; agree in their doctrine, worship, discipline, government, and ecclesiastical forms of procedure. The Westminster Confession of Faith and its two catechisms, are the principal standards of them all. It is only in a very few points, and these not points that touch a sinner's salvation, that they are at va- riance one from another. Nay, farther, the Independents, Congregationalists, Baptists, Methodists and Moravians, all teach the doctrine of justification by faith in the atonement of Jesus ; so that it may be affirmed that the doctrines of the cross are preached with more or less fidelity, by nineteen out of every twenty ministers in Scotland ; and yet there is scarcely such a thing as two ministers of different denominations exchanging pulpits with each other. In the most of parties there are laws strictly forbidding it. Were a minister in some denominations to venture upon the extraordinary step, he would likely be rebuked by his Presbytery ; and, if he did not confess a fault, he would be subject to deprivation of office and benefice." (Essay on Christian Union, pp. 387-388. — Rev. Gavin Struthers, Glasgow, D. D.) I am sure no one can say that the denominational Colleges in *' this Canada of ours" do not engender feelings of much greater brotherly love than those set forth in this extract as obtaining in a country where, the hon. gentleman says, there are no denominational Colleges at all. Although in that point, as well as in some others, his history is a little astray, and the denominational test the professors were required to subscribe has only been abolished within the last few years. Then he refers to the non-denominational Colleges of Ireland and England. Ho says : — " The system pursued by the British Parliament in all recent reforms in higher education, as exemplified not only by the new Scottish University Act, but also by the establishment of the Queen's University in Ireland, and the London University in England, abundantly proves how thoroughly British statesmen are alive to the importance of the members of a free community receiving their secular education in national rather than denominational institutions, and being thereby trained to co-operate in all the great public duties that devolve on a free people." The Colleges of Ireland, Sir, though by their constitutiontheyare non-denomi- national, yet for practical purposes they are made to partake to a great extent of that character, owing to the composition of their Faculties. The College in the North, at Belfast, has for the most part Presbyterian Professors at its head. Cork is chiefly Ro- man Catholic ; Galway, chiefly Church of England. Thus the views and preferences of the various classes of the community are met. But the gentleman refers especially to the London University as showing the views of British statesmen in training up the youth of its different denominations together in the course of their College education. What is, however, the fact ? Of over forty Literary Institutions and Col- leges in England which are affiliated with the London University, and apart from the Medical and law Schools, there are only two or three that are non-denomination- al, of which University College is the chief. The very object of the establishment of London University was to offer facilities for training up young men in these de- nominational colleges. Here is the calendar wherein we read as affiliated institu- tions ; " The '^'^esleyan Institution, Sheffield ; "the Wesley an Institution, Taun- ton ; " two or three Baptist, two or three Presbyterian Colleges, two or three of the Church of England — the young men who receive education in these, going up to the University of London for the purpose of receiving their degrees. m It 18 not a little singular that the non-denominational college, at first constituting the University, is now as distinct from it as any of the others. Its supporters, it should be also remarked, do not sponge upon the English Government for the maintenance of it. Its own resources, arising from voluntary contributions, like those of the Wesleyan, Congregational, and Baptist Colleges, are made to pay for its buildings, and it does not receive one farthing from the State. Let the advo- cates of non-denominational colleges here put themselves in a similar position, let them put their shoulders to the wheel in the same way — let them pay, individually, us I have paid within the last tAvo or three years to my friend Mr. Poole, some JGIGO as a contribution to Victoria College — and others have paid more in proportion to theiv means than I have. Let them beg, as I did in England, some $25,000 in 1835 and 1S.3(), and then meet their fellow subjects face to face. Why, University College is the most complete free school in Upper Canada, the whole Province being taxed for it, while its advocates do not contribute a farthing towards its ex- penses. For Dr. Wilson to allow the buildings of his institution to be quietly erected for him, and then come forward and exclaim against us, denounce us for asserting our right to a single farthing from the State, is a course of proceeding quite original with himself and his friends, and worthy of their can^^e. [Dr. Mi/erson here handed in a list of the Colleges affiliated to London Uni- versity, and said that if the history Dr. Wilson taught his classes were generally as faulty as his facts about the non-denominational diameter of the Colleges affilia- ted to the London University, his pupils could not be very much edified bj his prelections. He then continued :] Dr. Wilson says, further, that Cambridge and Oxford are denominational, in contradistinction to the Scottish Universities. It is very well known that, in past times, they were to a great extent close Universities, but years ago religious tests were abolished at Cambridge. Ho seems, however, to be ignorant of this, as also of the changes which have taken place at Oxford, and I will, tlierefore, read part of the Statute of the British Parliament abolishing tests for students there : " From and after the first day of Michaelmas term, 18<54, it shall not be ne- " cessary for any person upon matriculating in the University at Oxford, to make " or subscribe any declaration, or to take any oath, any law or statute to the con- " trary notwithstanding. — (17th and 18th Vic. cap. 81, sec, XLIII.) " From and after the first day of Michaelmas term, 1854, it shall not be ne- " cessary for any person, when taking the degree of Bachelor in Arts, Law, Medi- " cine or Music, in the University of Oxford, to make or subscribe any declaration, " or take any oath, any law or statute to the contrary, notwithstanding." — (Sec. So, Sir, even at Oxford itself, that' Alma Mater of the " Relics of the dark ages," this test has been abolished. In the Scottish Universities, while the test has been done away with too, the Church of Scotland has a Theological Faculty, just as the Church of England has Theological Professors at Oxford. Dr. Wilson then says that the absence of a test in our Victoria College is " a mere play upon words," and expresses himself thus : " Credit has been repeatedly claimed of late by Victoria College, that it has no " tests, but such a statement is a mere play upon words ; what real difference is " there between requiring that a Professor shall sign the prescribed creed of a " Church, — be it the 39 articles or the Westminster Confession of faith ; or that " he shall satisfy the Wesleyan Conference or other Ecclesiastical Court. In " reality the latter is the more stringent of the two. There is, of course, no test for " students. It is only too well known that not in Methodist Colleges only, but also ■1^ ■s, I ,i t6 as " in Roman Catholic Colleges, all are welcome who are prepared to submit to their " teaching." The spirit of the last sentence in this passage is kindred to that of the Globe, in its palmy days of High Protestantism, and the insinuation involved in it against A'^ictoria College cannot be misunderstood. Victoria College has been in operation gome 25 years; it has not to acquire its character from the testimony of the learned gentleman this day. It has performed its work — a work that sinks deeply into the hearts of the people of Upper Canada — and has given many a spotless mind, a vigorous character, a patriotic heart to the country. And what is the fact with regard to its operations ? There have not only been students there, of all religious persuasions, but, during the last 2!") years, even the most slanderous papers of Canada have never written a single paragraph as to the proselytizing influences of that College. Not only students, but professors of the Church of England, and of the Presbyterian Church have been connected with it, and amongst others, I may mention the Rev'd Mr. Ormiatori, who was not only a student there, but who, although a Presbyterian, afterwards became a Professor. Thus it may be seen what kind of test, what kind of surveillance the Wesleyan Conference has exerted over Victoria College. That body has never interfered with the appnintments of the Board, which appoints and removes the Professors, and is composed equally of laymen and ministers. I rejoice that I was the instrument of getting for Victoria College, in 18.30, the first Royal Charter ever given to any religious body in the colony not connected with the Church of England ; though in doing so, I differed in opinion from the late venerable Dr. Buntin; the third at Galway, £32,743. And yet in each of these Colleges accommodations were provided for the Faculties of Law as well as of Medicine, in addition to the Faculty of Arts, and for tho residences of both tho Principal and Vice Principal. In the presence of such facts, you may judge of the economy of the Vice Chancellor, and the Senate of the Toronto University, in expending already upwards of $300,000 in buildings for the single Faculty of Arts, and the examinations and conferring degrees by the LTniversity. The atten- dants and all other matters of equipage must, of course, correspond with the magnificence of the Buildings ; and therefore you have no less than 45 officers connected with the establishment, eleven professors, and 34 other officers and ser- vants, besides 29 examiners. Then ^Ir. Langton complains that we not only object to his expenditures, but that we represent him as auditing his own accounts, and says, that "as Auditor he has no control over the Bursar's Accounts." Who said that '•'• as Auditor " he had such control ? What was asserted, and what he now admits, was, that as Vice Chancellor he directed these expenditures, while as Auditor he audited the accounts of them. Mr. Langton, as a pluralist, holds the double office with the double salary of Vice Chancellor and Auditor. As in the case of a former Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, who had the habit of granting lands to himself — his Patents running somewhat thus : "I, Peter Russell, Governor, &c., grant to you Peter Russell, Gentleman, &c.;" so, " I, John Langton, Esquire, Vice Chancellor, direct the payment of University moneys for various purposes to the amount of some $400,000; and then I, John Langton, Esquire, Auditor of Public Accounts, audit and I find correct the accounts of moneys which I, John Langton^ Esq., Vice Chancellor, have ordered to be expended and paid." This is the financial branch of the University system which Mr. Langton, graduate of Cambridge, has come over from England to establish among us non-graduate Canadians in " this Canada of ours." We being uon-graduates of course know not how much money should be expended in the erection of College buildings, or how it should be ex- pended and accounted for ; and we must therefore bow in submissive silence and in gratitude to tho graduate learning and antbority, which condescends thus to spend our money for us. But here, Dr. Wihnn adds his authority to that of Mr. Lanfjton. lie tells us, that " these College buildings at Toronto are not too good !" and then, quoting from a Wesleyan Committee Pamphlet on tho University Question, the wonls, "History teaches that just in proportion as Greece and Rome lavislied their resources upon stone and marble, upon the material and the inanimate, they declined in tho intellectual and the moral," the Professor of History became in('ignant at such non-graduate barbarism, and waxed eloquent in praise of "stone ai;*li'"> of ScholarHliips in Kiiglaixl nnd Iroiand is tin* same as that cstahliKlicd at Toronto, whereaH tin; fact is, that tlio Scliolarsliips to which Mr. /Mur/ton lias appoali'd, arc not f^nii'crniti/ Scholarships at all, except ihosc of the London University, \\Iii«'h IiP admits to i)e only niin\ (hut whicdi he multiplies into forty,) for fort// alliliatcd Colleges in Arts nnd Law, and fn'iwnh/ in Medicine. The Queen's University in Ireland has not a sijii^le Scholarship, and expends otdyCn.') per anninn in "Kxhihi- tions. Prizes and Medals," forthrce Collcf^cs, and in thethree Faculties of Arts, Law, and Medicine. The Scholarships in Ireland have not hecn created hy the Quccii'h University at all, but hy Hoyal J'atent to each (!ollc;^e separately, and independent of the University, and designed, at the establishment (»f each of ilu; Colleges, to encourage and enable students to attend them from classes in society in Leliind, where higher education liad been little cidtivated. For that purpose, a grant to each College was made, of j£1500 per annum, and over it the University has no control, nor of tiie Scholarships established by means of it. To have anything like it in Upper Canada would reciuiro a special and separate grant to each College, independent of the University — the very system which Mr. Lntigton, and Lr. Wihon oppose, and for which no one has nuido application. Then, all the Uni' vemity Scholarships at Cambridge arc just nmetcen, and are as follows : Cravin Scholarships, 2 ; Browne Scholarships, 1 ; Bell Scholarships, 8 ; Pormn Scholar- ship, 1 ; Ti/rwhitt Scholarships (Hebrew), 3; Crosse Scholarships (Theological), 8; Pitt Scholarship, 1 ; in all 19. Not one of these Scholarships was founded by the Government, or the University, but by the individuals whose names they bear, except the Pitt Scholarship, which was founded jointly by the Pitt Club and tho subscribers to Pitt's Statue. All the other Scholarships at Cambridge are College {xioi University) Scholarships, established at various times by individual liberality, tor one or other of the seventeen Colleges at Cambridge, nnd over which tho University has no control. The Prizes for the encouragement of literature, whether open to competition for the whole TTniversity, or limited to particular colleges, have been established by individual gifts or legacies in the same way. The Cambridge. Calendar remarks, that throe-fourths of the prizes, free and open to competition for the whole University, are given for Classics and English Composition, and more than half of the annual prizes in the different Colleges are given for the encourngc- ment of Classical Literature, — a branch of learning quite at a discount with Mr. Langton, and Dr. Wilnon. Mr. Langton, quoting the Report of the Royal Cambridge University Commls- eioners, says, " It appears that at Cambridge, including the Colleges and the Uni- versity, there are about 045 scholarships, or one to two students." Now, he could not have but known that of these 64;'* scholarships, only nineteen of them were University Scholarships, not one of them founded out of Public Funds, and all of them in past times by individual beneficence. As abuses have arisen in connection with the Trusts and tho application of the funds arising from them, the Royal Commissioners recommend the interposition of Public Authority to correct such abuses, and secure a better application of the income of sucii gifts and legacies, under the direction, not of the University, but of th(^ Colleges, to Avhich tho gifts and le_:^acios belong. Now, it is scholarships thus created, and thus controlled, that Mr. Langton adduces us authority for the system of scholarships established by the Senate at Toronto, out of the University endowment. Nothing can be more unfair and fallacious than such (juotations and references, without any intimation vrhatever as to the origin, character and relations of the scholarships, but with the assumption throughout that the scholarships referred to were analagoue in those respects to the scholarships of the Toronto University. 99 Then Mr. />aw/;for/, refers to scliol.irships at Oxford intheanmc strain, remarking that "at Oxford tlio information is more precise in some respects, and more capa- ble of comparison wit'i ourselves, as the number of undergraduates holdinj; scholar- shipy is given, as well as the total cost." Now. from the evidence of tlie Reverend Mr. Ainlu-n/, and as may be seen by the Oxford Calcuihii^ ■which I have iiere, the University Scliolarships of Arts, Law, Hebrew, Sanscrit, &c., do not exceed twenty-three — not one of them founded by (lie State, but every one of them by private benefactions under special regulations. All the otiier scholarships are CoUoiji' (not University) Scholarships, founded by inuividu.ils during the last few centuries, controlled by each College as a trust, according to the terms of the will or gift in each case. These are the scholarships to which Mr. /^ff»//^>Hrefers, audit is to the improved management and distribution of the funds arising from those pri- vate benefactions to the several Colleges, that the Royal Commissioners refer in their recommendations. But all Mr. L(tn(/tonn references and quotations convey the impression that these College Scholarships and Fellowships founded by private indivither8, 1V'^ )r-man ■>;- egreo, athe* ■ .:;^ Legis- ual to -'}■' id and ;ion of jy evi- '8 Col- rersity ■e and STi ermit- ■^ ontho page next to that from which I quotod, the Commissioners rocommondcd ii change. But, Sir, tlio ('onimissionors obji-c'tcd to the system of options proposed to them, and recommended a two-fold examination for ii degree — the one embracing the sub- jectH of the first two years' course at the end of two years, and those of tlu) last year's course at the end oi that year; and this change in tiie time and numbcM* of the University examinations was recommended with the express »'iew of preventing the system of options in the four essential brandies prescribed: for tlie Commis- sioners say — '' We l)e]ieve tliat a //cu-nr/ education forms the soundest basis on which pre-eminent merit in particular branches of Literature and Science can rest." * * * " With the view of securing the proficiency of the Student in all Sithjei'tn, and at the same lime lightening the burden on the Student, who ia now obliged to keep up his knowledge in the compulsory as well as optioiuil group to the end of the ♦Mrd year, it has been suggested that a final examination should take place in some of the subjects by University Examiners, within the College walls, at some ])eriod before the conclusion of the course. We are of opinion that aftrr the srcoihl i/car, there should be an examination in all the nubjcctH studied in the first two i/cars, and that it should be final in regard to all s\d)jects not included in the group selected by the student for the A. IJ. ex^vmination." (pp. l'.\ 20). The object of the Royal Couimissioners, trierefore, even in a high and very severe course of Collegiate studies, was to prevent any optional studies during tho first two of a three years' course of study — to allow optional studies but one year ; whereas in the Toronto University system, optiomil studies are allowed thrci' years out of four. During ttro-thirdti of the course of studies in the Queen's Colleges in Ireland, there is no option or intorruption whatever in the studies of Latin, Greek, and Mathematics; in Toronto University, options are allowed iu either or all of those studies during three-fourths of the course. Next Mr. L(nujton refers to the London University ; but here though tho degree of B. A. has been divided into two, namely, a First B. A. and a Second B. A., the latter being equal to the B. A. under the form:n' system; there is no option whatever in the subjects of either of the two examinations ; and the sub- jects of the two examinations include the L;itin and (J reek languages and litera- ture, Mathematics, Logic ;.nd Moral Philosophy, besides other subjects, as may be here seen in the last Calendar of the London University. Then Mr. Lanyton also appeals to and quotes largely from the Ueporta of tho Cambridge University Commissioners; but bis own quotations refute his conclu- sions ; for the Royal Commissioners recommend (what was not allowed before), that some choice of studies be allowed to students during the last /oar terma out of the nine terms of actual residence and study ; that is from the latter part of the second year (there being three terms in a year at Cambridge,) a choice of studies under certain guards and restrictions be allowed to students ; but then only after passing the "previous examination," which Provost Whitaker states in his evidence to have been ma(?e equal to the former examination for B. A., at Cambridge. And yet Mr. Langton coolly adduces such recommendations to sanction optional studies in the Toronto University, at tho end of the first year, and that without any such previous examination as tho one required at Cambridge. Mr. Langton also appeals to the recommendations of the Oxford University Commissioners ; but they are more completely against him than those (as I have just shewn,) of the Cambridge University Commissioners. Mr. Langton quotes the Oxford Commissioners, as recommending a choice of studies to be allowed to students during the latter part of tho course ; but he adroitly avoids saying, or quoting any passage, by which the Oewradttoc might judge as to how long a timo was meant by " the latter part of the course." Now the very heading f the rocom- M \l I mendations from which Mr. Langton has quoted, is as follows: — " Liberty of choice in subjects of study during tjic last year." Had Mr. Langton quoted these words, it would have made the fallacy of his argument transparent in a mo- ment. Out of a four years' course of study at Oxford, the Commissioners recom- mend that there may be liberty of choice in subjects of study during the last year of the four; while Mr. Langton' a system establishes it three years out of the four ! Thus do the authorities, professedly quoted by Mr. Langton, condemn in every instance his wretched system of options, a;id sanction the views which we have maintained, that optional studies should only be permitted to a limited extent during the latter part of the Collegiate course — that allowing a choice of studies at the end of the first year of a Collegiate course, is as injurious to a thorough Uni- versity education, as allowing a child at school, at the end of his first year, to ohoose his studies, would be fatal to a thorough elementary education. The Committee adjourned. Thursday, April 2G, 1860. COMMITTEE MET. Present : The Honorable MALCOLM CAMERON, Chairman, Mr. Cayley, Attorney General Macdonald, Foley, ROBLIN, Simpson, McCann, Wilson. Ityerson, 'Stinson, belles and Poole The Reverend Messrs. liyerson, [i^i'tmson, JSelles and J/oole were in attendance. John Langton, Esquire, and Professor Wilson of University of Toronto, were in attendance. The Reverend Mr. Ryerson continued his statement in reply to Messrs. Langton and Wilson, as follows : In resuming the observations which I was making yesterday, I may remark that a large portion of my reply was not in answer to what is contained in Dr. Wilsmis written statement, which may be read in a little more than half an hour ; his speech occupied considerably more than two hours, and nearly all the points to which I referred were mentioned in his speech as delivered, but which he has not incorporated in his written statement. They were designed for the Committee, it appears ; not for the country at large. How far such a course is fair or manly, I leave others to judge- On the other hand, there is much in the written state- ment of Mr. Langton which was not contained in his speech. To that I have no obj :ction. In view of Avhat may possibly occur hereafter^ and to justify myself in the eyes of the Committee, my friends and the country, I make these explanatory remarks. I omitted one or two points connected with the topics to Avhich I alluded yesterday; one was in regard to the standard of Matriculation. It is admitted on all hands that the standard of Matriculation at Toronto University has been much lowered, and, I think I have shewn, not for the reason assigned. It has been reduced considerably lower than that of other University Colleges, and one reason given (which I omitted to notice yesterday) was the incompetency of the Grammar 26 to were remark lin Dr. hour ; points Ihe lias Imittee, |nianly, state- lave no ' in the Imarks. lerday; hands Uered, leduced given lainmar Schools to give that preparatory education necessary for Matriculation at the University according to the former standard. This objection has been repeated by all who have spoKen on the other side of the question, in various forms, and with various degrees of impressiveness. Now, Sir, perhaps m. one knows better than I do the position of our Grammar Schools, how much they stand below the standard to which I would wish them elevated, or the inconvenient and undesirable circumstances in which the Masters of many of them are placed. But it is one thing for the Masters of Grammar Schools to be in poor circumstances, and quite an- other thing for these Masters to be incompetent. It is possible that there may be competency combined with poverty— competency on the part of the Master, com- bined with a deficiency of materials within the Schools, and a want of resources to place them in that position which the generosity and judgment of the Trustees would desire, had they the power to do so. When the statement is made to you, that the intention of the i*eduction of the Matriculation standard was to prevent a monopoly in behalf of Upper Canada College, I ask what is the plea for the ex- istence of Upper Canada College, except that it was designed as an Institution for the Province ? What is the reason for its existence at this day except that it was intended especially as a feeder to the Provincial University College ; that it was designed to take up our youth at a stage when they had advanced beyond the com- petency of ordinary Grammar Schools, and gather the^ i there for the special put • pose of preparation for the Provincial University? Why else is it that ^5000 oi j£6000 per annum has been given to Upper Canada College, and from £50 to j£200 only to each of the Grammar Schools, except that the College had work to do superior to that of the Grammar Schools? That College was established for Upper Canada, not for Toronto, else its endowment should be abolished to-morrow, since Toronto is as well able to support its own Grammar School as any city or town in the Province. The policy of the Senate of the University should have been to send young men to Upper Canada College, to prepare them there for ad- mission to the University. In the face of its endowment, in the presence of the past facts in the history of that institution, of the recommendations of past years as to its sufficiency, of its being placed — not under the direction of an ordinary local board of trustees, but of a Provincial Senate ; in the face of aM tlis it is strange these gentlemen should plead that they reduced the standard of Matricula- tion in the University, in order not to give Upper Canada College an advantage over other Grammar Schools. Can anything be more inconsistent or absurd, more contrary to facts, more opposed to the very natm*e of things ? Sir, I repeat, if it is not the design of Upper Canada College, by its large endowment, to accomplish the purpose of which I speak, it ought not to exist for a day, and the other por- tions of Upper Canada ought to claim that the revenues now set apart lOr the sup- port of that Institution be distributed among the various Grammar Schools of the Province. Sir, this very plea of Mr. Langton and Dr. WiUon., is the death knell of Upper Canada College. But what are the facts in regard to the Grammar Schools ? Look over the masterships of the Grammar Schools of the count. y, and wonder how men can have the face to make assertions of this description. If you begin ^t Cornwall you will there find one of the most accomplished young men of the country, whose mind is as energetic as it is finely cultivated, the Rev. Mr. Davies, a Trinity College man. Is Mr. Barron, of Cobourg, unfit to train up young men to be teachers ? Is the Master of Kingston Grammar School incompetent ? Is the master of the Grammar School of Brock- ville incompetent ? Is that most accomplished and most able master of Bar- rie Grammar School, incompetent, who has competed successfully with Up- per Canada College itself in regard to both scholars and honors. I will ask whether the Master of Gait Grammar School, a graduate of Toronto Universi- 8 m ty, who was distinguished as a teacher in Hamilton Grammar School before ho went to the University, and has also I believe, distanced Upper Canada College in the number of his pupils who have taken honors in University competition, is in- competent. Is the accomplished Master connected with the school at Hamilton, which even though it is called a Union Grammar School, is one of the best in that part of the country, an incompetent man ? Is the Master of the London Gram- mar School, Mr. Bayley, who has sent up scholars who have taken honors in old King's College, unfit to teach ? Is the Rev. Mr. Mulholland, now Head Master of the Grammar School at Simcoe, incompetent to teach youth anything higher than a little Sallust and a little Xenophon ? Is Dr. Howe, Master of the Toronto Grammar School, incompetent ; or Mr. Marling, of New Market Grammar School; or Mr. Phillips, Master of the St. Catharines Grammar School, one of the first and most numerously attended Grammar Schools in Upper Canada. Sir, I might ex- tend this enumeration a long while ; for the masters of no less than 42 out of the 75 Grammar Schools, are graduates of British and Canadian Colleges ; and several of those who teach under Provincial certificates, are competent and able t^.-chers. Sir, the plea of Mr. Langton and Dr. Wihon, as to theincompetency of the Gram- mar Schools, is an unjust and groundless imputation upon the qualifications of a great majority of the masters of Grammar Schools in Upper Canada; for however poor may be the accommodation of Grammar Schools in some places, and however inadequate the salaries paid, it is clear that their masters generally are competent to train our boys up to any standard of Matriculation a Provincial University might require. The reason given for the reduction is a mere pretext, contradicted on the one hand by the consideration of the objects for which Upper Canada College was founded, and on the other by the competency of the masters of the Grammar Schools in various parts of the Province. It is for the want of those who wish to pursue a course of University study, that men have not come up to enrol them- selves on the University books ; and perhaps another reason is in the unwillingness of some to go up to Toronto. Every effort has been made by offering prizes and Scholarships, by abolishing fees, by the reduction of st.4,xidards, to increase the number of students, and as if that were not enough, these gentlemen have attached to the University a Tutor, whose special Avork it is to assist the maimed, the halt, and I had almost said the blind. Is it, I ask, for the interest of the several locali> ties of the country, for the interest of Grammar Schools themselves, or for that of University Education, to take oft' what Mr. Langton admits to be a year's work from the Grammar Schools, and tack it on to University College by the assistance of a Tutor, with the duty assigned to him of coaching those who come up from the country to enter the University, even according to its present reduced standard. Another subject to which I alluded yesterday, but in connection with which I overlooked one ;>r two topics, is that of Scholarships. But before adverting to this topic, allow me to notice Mr. Langton' % statement that I had myself gone home to England and selected persons as teachers who proved not to be qualified. He speaks of "two men, graduates of British Universities, selected by me for the Normal and Model Schools, who, upon trial, proved ineflicient." Now, Sir, had I mf le a mistake of the kind here made by Mr. Langton, you would have seen again enacted in regard to myself, the same spectacle that took place once at Toronto in the case of a gentleman now present (Mr. Cayley.) I should have been cross-examined, shown to have been in error, ana then held up as stating what was contrary to fact. Now, one of these persons was a graduate of the Univer- sity of Queen's College in Ireland — and I may here remark parenthetically, there were candidates from Belfast College also, and as proofs of their standing, they forwarded me the Calendar of Belfast College. This is how I came to have that Calendar, and not those of the other Queen's Colleges at Cork and Galwaj ; i: I 2T me why I spoke of the standard of admission there as being higher than at Toronto, which Mr. Lanqton has admitted, but on which he accused me of having unfairly selected one from among three — because it suited my argument best, — the other was not a graduate of any University, but a student in the School of Arts and Science in London, and I wished to get a master to teach drawing according to the system pursued there. Mr. Langton says these gentlemen were dismissed — but what had been the condition of their appointment V The system adopted in appointing all Masters and Teachers of the Normal and Model Schools, even Mr. Ormiston, Mr. Amberi/, and others, has, in every case, been a six months' proba- tion, after which, if they did not succeed in performing their duties efficiently, their services were dispensed with, and if they came from England, the expenses of their passage home were paid. If the same prudent course had been pursued in regard to certain other Professors, it would, perhaps, have been better for the country. Now, the first of these young men (an excellent person) possessed great clearness of perception, and power of language to express his views, but he failed for two reasons — he could not command the interest of, nor efficiently govern large classes. Therefore, after trial, it was found he could not succeed in this particular work. The other person was in every way competent to teach, but attended no public worship, and became known as a sceptic, and exhibited lightness of character and indifference to the progress of his classes, and therefore, we thought it best to dispense with his services ; and we have now selected a gentleman (Mr. Coulon) to fill the situation, who was educated in the School of Arts and Manufacturing Indus- try in Paris, and afterwards obtained the rank of Civil Engineer, and who manages his department most efficiently. These are the only two mistakes which have been made in the difficult task of selecting Masters and Teachers for the Provincial Normal and three Model Schools, and such has been the provision made for reme- dying them. I may add, that had not such precautions been taken, the Normal School would have been permanently maimed in two of its essential departments^ Reverting now to the question of Scholarships, I beg to notice for a moment, what has been stated by Mr. Langton and Dr. Wilson, that students from all Colleges can compete for them. Apart from the answers given by Dr. Cook and Provoit Whitaker, to this show of liberality, I may remark, that these Scholarships are for what are called ?ionor subjects — subjects not included in the ordinary col- legiate curi'iculum, but additional subjects, and for the study of which, students are allowed, in the exercise of options, to omit other studies which the other Colleges consider essential to the completeness of an University education. To allow students to neglect several ordinary subjects, and devote themselves chiefly to one subject, in order to obtain a Scholarship of £30, is like pugilists neglecting ordinary and lawful avocations to train themselves for a contest, involving a larger or smaller sum of money. Thus, the Toronto system of Scholarships, is not only unjust to ordinary Students, by having half the time, of the Professors, which should be devoted to them, employed in training the candidate for the contest, but also mars the harmony and efficiency of the system of mental study and discip- line, necessary to intellectual development, and a complete liberal education, while it is an ingenious scheme for building up University College alone. I here take occasion to remark upon a term which appears to have given Dr. Wilson great offence, and the use of which, I regret, since so much ado has been made about it, and as I intended no offence. It is the term " family compact." It is very well known that the term was used in a conventional sense, and which may apply to a College family, as well as a political family, and that conventional sense, I may define, for insertion in the first dictionary of Canadianisms, as "a small party of gentlemen in Toronto, having, among others, two special objects in view ; the one being their own convenience and interests, and the other, those of 'la their locality, regarding the interests of others, and of other localities, ao matters of very secondary consideration." Hotv far the interests of the College family have been consulted, I need not further remark ; and I have shown, in a statement to which neither Mr. Langton nor Dr. Wilson has ventured to refer, that the Pro- fessors of the College family at Toronto, have consulted their convenience, by giving themselves two months less work each year, and twelve hours less work each week of that short year, than have the Professors of Harvard College. Now, Sir, as to the next topic, on which I made some observations yesterday, that of Options. I will not now, as I did not previously, enter into the general question ; but I beg to repeat, that all the autliorities quoted on that subject, fail to prove, as it was endeavored to prove, that the Options in other countries, are equal to those allowed in the University of Toronto. I shewed before, that no Options were admitted at Cambridge, until after the 6th term. At Cambridge, there are now nine terms to be kept out of the twelve, instead of ten as formerly. Her Majesty's Commissioners recommend raising the standard of the examina- tion at the end of the 6th term, called the " Previous Examination," as Professor Whitaker testified, and admitting Students from that time, to choose Options. That recommendation has induced Mr. Langton to justify options being intro- duced here the end of the first year, while there, it will be seen, they only com- mence in the latter part of the second, after the standard to which students must have attained at that period has been advanced, to what Provost Whitaker re- gards as equal to the former standard for B. A. at Cambridge in Mr. Langton' 9 time. There, in four out of the nine terms options are permitted, while in Toronto they are allowed six terms out of eight ! Then, sir, in regard to London Univer- sity, I have shewn that in every single degree, except that of M. A., no options at all are permitted. As to Oxford, I have shown that the " Liberty of choice in subjects of study during the last year" of four was what the Royal Commissioners recommended, and not the last three years of four, as has been established in Toronto. Mr. Langton incorrectly represents the " Intermediate Examination" at Oxford as the first examination. The Commissioners in their Report, from which Mr. Langton quotes, set it down as " The Second or Intermediate Ex- amination ;" and Professor Ambery considers this exauination at Oxford as not only above the ordinary degree examination, but nearly equal to the honor degree examination at Toronto ; and it is only after that Second or Intermediate Ex- amination, that the Royal Commissioners permit the options mentioned by Mr. Langton. The recommendations of the Oxxord Commissioners would not permit any Options in Toronto, until after the Students had passed their ordinary fourth year's examination for the degree of B. A.; yet Mr. Langton adduces such re- commendations to justify the adoption of a system of Options at the end of the first year. Having thus referred to the British Institutions, I may remark that on this side of the Atlantic, in places where there are practical men, not " old Oxford relics," I al- lude to Yale and Harvard, the system of options is permitted to a very limited ex- tent indeed. Yale only permits options in classics in two out of the whole twelve terms of its course, and that only when the student wishes to take the higher Mathematics, but does not permit any options in Mathematics. At Harvard op- tions in Mathematics do not commence until the third year, and in classics not until the fourth year. Having now discussed these topics in reply to Mr. Langton and Dr. Wilson, I may remark that if we have a College education at all in Upper Canada it should be a good one. It is not wo^th while putting the country to the expense of a Collegiate education that only advances a couple of steps beyond the Grammar m as not degree ite Ex- |by Mr. permit fourth ich re- of the side of I," I ai- led ex- whole Ihigher [rd ep- ics not should of a kmmar School course. It is not just to the country or its future that we should have such a system, unless it is characterized by a thoroughness, a comprehensiveness, a practical character, that can stand some comparison with that of other coun- tries. I submit that the youth of Upper Canada are not deficient in intellect — though Dr. Wilson seemed to think it absurd that we should look as highly as Oxford, where education costs at least $760 a year, and where the English nobility are educated. Juat as if money or title conferred intellect, as if a poor untitled Canadian may not, with the aid of competent and diligent Professors, equal in scholarship and science the wealthy titled Englishman ! Sir, the University edu- cation for which all Upper Canada has been taxed ought to be a real University education, not a mock imitation of it. We want our sons better educated than their fathers — educated so that they can stand on an eauality with the edu- cated men of any country. Our aim should be to elevate the standard of education in all the Colleges, as well as schools ; but how can that be accomplished when the only endowed tfniversity of the country sets the example of the downward instead of the upward course ? Mr. Langton and Dr. Wilson have both attempted to show that Victoria Col- lege has had three representatives in the Senate of the Toronto University, while University College has only four — that Dr. Barrett, of the Medical Faculty of Victoria College, Mr. Nelles and myself are members of the Senate. None can be more sensible than themselves of the fallacy of their statement and argument. Dr. Workman, President of the Toronto School of Medicine, (Avhich Avas affiliated to the Toronto University early in 1854,) entered the Senate as such. To him Dr. Bar- rett succeeded. In 1856, the Toronto School of Medicine became the Medical Faculty of Victoria College, but retained its affiliated relation to Toronto Univer- sity, and as the President of that affiliated Institution, and not as Head of the Medi-. cal Faculty of Victoria College, Dr. Barrett held his place as member of the Senate. Soon after. Dr. ^arreW and a majority of the Corporation of the Toronto School of Medicine withdrew from all connexion with Victoria College, became very hostile to it; but retaining their School as an affiliated Institution of the Toronto Univer- sity, and as the Head of such affiliated Institution, Dr. Barrett holds his seat and has acted for years as member of the Senate. Yet in the presence of these facts. Dr. Wilson and Mr. Langton represent him as holding his seat in the Senate as a representative of Victoria College ! Then as to myself, I am a member of the Senate simply as Chief Superintendent of Education of Upper Canada, thoujh I happen to be a Trustee of, and a sub- scriber to Victoria College. But the fallacy of their statement becomes still more palpable from the fact, that the four Professors of University College are salaried officers on the funds of the University, while no member of any other College re- ceives a farthing from them — not even his expenses if he should go to Toronto to attend meetings of the Senate. I will now advert briefly to another subject on which Dr. Wilson dwelt at great length — that of Denominational Colleges. I may ask what Denominational Colleges have to do with the defence of University College — the professed object of Dr. Wilson's mission to Quebec? Was he deputed to attack Denominational Col- leges, or to appear in behalf of University College ? Mr. Langton admits, indeed, that Denominational Colleges may do some good ; but the whole scope of Dr. Wil- remarks is to the effect that Denominational Colleges are a sort of social tons evil, and that it would be better for the country if they did not exist. He declares it " totally at variance with facts to say," as the Wesleyan Memorial stated, that " the experience of all Protestant countries shows that it is, and has been, as much the province of a religious persuasion to establish a College, as it is for a School !1 ii Municipality to establish a School." I showed in my remarks yesterday how con- trary to facts was Dr. TTt^fon'^ statement that the Collegiate Education in Ensland in connexion with the London University was non-denominational. In refutation of his present statement, I may appeal to the Protestant country of Scotland, in which, according to his own admission and statement, the system of Collegiate education was under both denominational tests and control until since 1854. He refers to four Colleges in England, at Hull, Cheltenham, Wakefield and Manchester, which he says have been established by voluntary effort, and are non-denominational ; but why did he omit the upwards of thirty Denominational Colleges established and endowed by voluntary effort in England, and which arc affiliated to the London University? Every schoolboy knows that tho history of each Protestant denomination in England, has been marked by the establishment of one or more Collegiate Listitutions, and within the last few years to a greater extent than at any former period. And Dr. Wilson himself being witness, the forty-two Colleges at Oxford and Cambridge arc under denominational control, although tests for students have been abolished. Then to turn to Protestant America, is there a single denomination in the United States, which has not put forth its ^ most vigorous efforts to establish denominational institutions ? In the Almanacs of that country you may see lists, almost without number, of their denominational Colleges. Yet Dr. Wihon, in the face of these facts, denies that tho history of Protestant countries shows, that it is the province of denominations to establish Col- leges at all ! It is also objected by both Mr. Langton and Dr. Wihon, that denominational Colleges are opposed to the system of Common and Grammar Schools. Perhaps I understand tnat system as well as these gentlemen ; and I may observe, that in forming the system of Common and Grammar Schools, I regarded denominational Colleges, as a necessary supplement to them, and as essential to the completeness and efficiency of the system of public instruction in Upper Canada, and as much an essential part of it, as the Common and Grammar Schools themselves. I will not detain you by arguing this point ; but I will append extracts of a letter which I addressed to the Hon. F. Hincks, on the subject, in July, 1852, and in which I discussed, at length, the connexion between the system of Common and Grammar Schools and denominational Colleges. In refutation of the assertion that the advocacy of denominational Colleges involves the advocacy of denomina- tional Common Schools, I remark that the most earnest supporters of the non- denominational Schools, are the warmest advocates of denominational Colleges. I would ask whether I have ever been in favor of establishing denominational Schools in the country ? I ask whether the Wesleyan Conference, which now stands proziinently before you, as having originated the investigation, ever demanded them, or whether it has not expressed its views on the subject in past years, or if its prac- tice, in permitting one of its members to construct a non-denominational system, and carry it on from that day to the present, is not an indication of its views ? Do not the Presbyterians of the Church of Scotland hold similar ground? Hag not the feeling of the great body of the Church of England too — for only a small portion of it has advocated separate schools — been in favor of supporting liberally our present system of Common and Grammar Schools ? I now come to another point. It has been stated as an objection, that under the system we advocate there would be a contemptibly small number of Students attending the different Colleges, and that that would be a great disadvantage. It has been pressed on the Committee, that, to get a large number of Students, we must havie but one Collegiate institution. Now here again, what are the facts ? In this very Report of the English University Commissioners by Heywood, you find a list of 81 I the Sudents vrho entered both at Cambridge and Oxford, from '45 to '49 : no re< turns having appeared since then. I will take the list of Students who entered these old Colleges in the latter year, as mentioned in Heywood, p. 517. At Cambridge there were, At St. Peter's - - . • "• • - 21 At Clare Hall - - • . 19 At Pembroke - . - • . . 10 At Caius ...... 26 At Trinity Hall 10 At Corpus Christi 24 At King's ...... 4 At Queen's ....-- 36 At Jesus ...--.. 28 At Christ's 20 At St. John's 97 At Magdalen - - - - - - 21 .- At Trinity ---... 151 At Emmanuel - - - - • 25 At Sidney - ' • • • • • 8 At Downing - - - - - -4 499. The iiverage number entering at the Colleges at Cambridge is, then, 31 stu- dents to each. And have not some of the infant denominational Colleges in this new country already more students entered than several of the old Colleges at Cambridge ? Then let us look at Oxford. There the number entered in the last year of which we have the return was : — At University College ..... At Balliol College ..... At Merton College - - - . • At Exeter College ..... At Oriel College '...-- At Queen's College ..... At New College ..... At Lincoln College . . . . - AtAll Souls' College i. «»' ^., . . At Magdalene College . - - . - At Brasenose College .... , At Corpus Christi College . . . - At Christ Church . . . - - At Trinity College ..... At St. John's College .... At Jesus College . . . - - At Wadham - - - - - - At Pembroke - - - - - ' - At Worcester - . ' . - . . At St. Alban Hall . . . - - At St. Edmund Hall . - . - - At St. Mary's Hall . , . - - At New Inn Hall . - - - - At Magdel^ie Hall ..... 1 21 26 12 48 18 28 58 16 1 2 26 6 46 27 15 17 26 26 33 it 7 11 1 27 U If- iil, Total 440 I 82 The average number entered at each College there is 182. It is known that many more students enter a College than graduate. Victoria College this very year has a graduating class of fourteen young men, who have gone tnrough their four years' course of study, besides nearly fifty undergraduates of one, two, or three years standing, and some 200 pupils in the Preparatory School. Yet we are told that by multiplying our Colleges we shall reduce the number of our stu- dents to an extent altogether without precedent in any country! If twenty students are in a class — wo know that the students in a College are divided into four classes — are they not as many as one Tutor can well do justice to ? Can one Tutor do more than properly attend to them ? In his *' ephemeral" article, Dr. Wilson said Professors should bo as nearly as possible like the Tutors at Oxford and Cambridge. I think, then, the objections as to the smaller numbers that would be brought together in Denominational Colleges are entirely answered. Sir, there are two or three qualities which Denominational Colleges possei; .0 which I call attention. I speak from personal knowledge of one of them. They have a heart — a heart that feels as well as a head that thinks — they have a Christian heart, actuated br Christian feelings, motives, principles. They have a Canadian heart, all their sy npathies, throughout the whole course of their training, being with the country. In the conversations and discussions of students and teachers, their il- lustrations arc drawn as far as possible from ''this Canada of ours," and when the students emerge into active life they feel that the land is theirs, they respect and love it as their home, and regard their fellow-countrymen as their brethren and equals. This is a very important consideration in forming the elements of character in this country. On the score of their economy, too, the denominational colleges should attract attention ; for they educate as many students for d£2,000 as University College does for three times that sura. Again, is it not all important for every statesman, christian and patriot to do all in his power to develope voluntary effort in the country, since voluntary effort in regard to everything that trains the heart of man, is the mainspring of our social pro- gress. When the system of higher education is so framed as to require the exer- cise of this feeling — when no denomination can receive anything until its thoughts, feelings, sympathies are drawn forth and evinced by large contributions for the erection of buildings and the payment of Professors — then, I say, we have an im- portant element to draw out what is good among us. But when there is no such feeling, when our Collegiate Institution lives wholly upon the public, and no man connected with it has any higher interest than to get what he can, then I say, you have an element of decay. We are, for the most part, a voluntary people. Wo should encourage voluntary effort by the supplementary aid of the State, but it should bo given on the principle of equal justice to all ; and it is curious to see the leaders of the voluntaries on other subjects become in this case the leaders of those who would depend upon the State for everything. Dr. Wilson the other day referred to the Common and Grammar Schools of the country as being non-denominational, and said, non-denomi- national Colleges were essential to the harmony of the system. Sir, under our common school system, children are under the care or the orders of their parents for sixteen hours every day, besides the whole of each Sunday, and thus every possible facility is afforaed for religious instruction. In the Grammar Schools there is, to a certain extent, as I have admitted, a defect in this particular, but they are only week-day boarding schools, at most, and parents can generally find some acquaintance in the neighborhood to pay attention to their Qbil£en. In the Normal School, Toronto, which is for the purpofe« of training aa teachers, Hcldom extending over a period of ten months, the students are required to attend religious instruction one hour a week under their own ministers, and are as imperatively renuired to attend that cla.-i8 as any other. And, granting that a defect exists in the Grammar Schools, that the primary education does not afford sufficient opportunities for religious instruction, is it not all the more important, as every good parent must feel, that religious instruction should he afterwards given to that part of our youth who arc to give character and heart to, and to be the lead- ers of our country 'i When our sons go away from immediate parental and pastoral authoritv to train their minds for becoming tlio instructors anci guides, if not the rulers of the Province in future years, is it not most important that every possible care should b'> taken to give them every facility for obtaining religious instruction to form their character ? If there is a defect in our Grammar Schools, it is a rea- son for remedying it at our Colleges. Having made these remarks, I will now revert to my own system, my own plan, which I respectfully submit to the serious attention of the Committee. Sir, Dr. Wilson made himself merry, and thought to amuse the Committee, by a reference to an expression of mine, used in a letter written by me several years since, that I had meditated my system of Public In- struction for this country — (for I contemplated the whole system from the primary school to the University) — on some of the highest mountains in Europe, and said, using a very elegant expression, it must therefore be rather "windy." I leave it to the country to judge of the windiness of the gentleman who has assailed me ; but a person of liis pretensions to literature and philosophy might have known, that there have been those who have risen high in their intellectual attainments, and left monuments rather more enduring than essays on Indian pipes and tobacco, profusely illustrated in the Canadian Journal, who have sought their inspirations in the higher elevations of their country. No one can have read the history of Greece or Scotland, or the Northern and Western parts of England, without know- ing that, from elevated and secluded places, some of the finest inspi: .ons of genius have emanated which have ever been conceived by the mind of mnu. There are mountains in Europe where the recluse may stand and see beneath him curling clouds, and roaring tempests spending their strength, while he is in a calm un- troubled atmosphere, on the summit of a mountain of which it may be said, " Though round his breast the rolling clouds are spread, " Eternal sunshine settles on his head," And I ask whether it was unphilosophical for an individual who had examined the educational systems of various countries, and who was crossing the Alps, to retire to a mountain solitude, and there, in the abode of that " eternal sunshine," and in the presence of Him who is the fountain of light, to contemplate a system which was to diffuse intellectual and moral light throughout his native country, to survey the condition of that country as a whole, apart from its political and religious dissensions, and ask Avhat system could be devised to enable it to take its position among the civilized nations of the world ? How much better to be in such a position than to be enveloped in a Scotch fog, like that with which we were visited for two or three hours the other day ! In regard to the university and collegiate system which I would suggest, I have nothing (after eight years' further deliberation and experience) to add to or modify (unless in regard to Provincial Schools of Law and Medicine) what I meditated in Europe in 1845, and submitted to the Hon. Mr. Hincks in July, 1852. In that plan, I proposed to provide professorships in the various branches of science and literature after the examples of the French and English Universities, and to trans- fer the present professorships of English Literature and Natural History to the 4 University proper, instead of their being attnchcd to a Colloi^c. 1 proposed the constitution of the UniverHity, the croction of the building, the endowment of pro- fessorships nnd colleges, including the denominational colleges, in connection with our Common School system, at an expense within the Income of the University Endowment without infringing upon the principle. I will append to my present observations extracts from the Letter referred to, containuig an outline of the whole system, together with reasons for, and expected advantages of it, and leave the Committee to judge whether the plan suggested by me in 1852, and which I beg to suggest again, would not have effected an immense saving in the expenditure of the University Funds, greatly improved and extended collegiate education in the country, and consolidated in one harmonious whole our entire system of public in- struction, from the primary school up to the University ? Thus submitting my plan to the consideration of the Committee, 1 beg to remark for a moment on two points incidentally connected with the subject. Dr. Wilson seemed displeased that I should compare his lec- tures on the English Language and Literature with the teachings of the Grammar School, and consoled himself, and sought to amuse the Committee with the idea, that I did not know the difference between the lectures of a College Professor and the teachings of a Grammar School master. I only judged of the character of Dr. ]f7/«on'« lectures on English Literature by his text-book, which is the same as that used in the Grammar Schools ; and I presume there are not a few masters of Grammar Schools who are quite as competent to teach the English language and literature as Dr. Wihon himself. At the same time I am not insensible that the English language should be differently taught m the Gram- mar School and the College. In the former it should be taught, if I may use the expression, synthetically — beginning with the elements of words, putting them to- gether, tracing them up to their Latin and Greek origin, or other foreign origin, as streams to their fountains, and then combining, arranging and applymg them to practical purposes according to the philosophy of language. In the professorial chair, the analytic method should be adopted, and the process should commence with the languages of Greece and Rome, the words and literature of which should be M'aced downward and pursued in all their intricate and various interminglings with our own language and literature, forming its very warp and woof. This^ I submit, is the true method of studying the English language and literature in con- nection with collegiate education ; and this is doubtless the philosophy of Dr. Cook'ii view, when he said the other day that he would like to have both a Greek and Latin Professor, who would loch. Greek and Latin, not in the style of the Grammar School, but in the spirit ( t j, sound philology, exhibiting the words, the imagery, the philosophy, the literatare, the very spiritof Greece and Rome inmost that is refined, noble, elegant and beautiful in our own language and literature. It was in this way that the Burkes and Peels, and Macaulays and Gladstones, studied the English language and literature at college, and not by attending such lectures as Dr. Wihon s, or studying his chosen text-book, Spaulding's English Literature — the standard text-book of seminaries for young ladies as Avell as of Grammar Schools. Dr. Wilson will now understand why I attach little value to his profes- sorship in University College, and whether I can distinguish between the appropriate teachings of the Grammar School and the College. The professor who serves as the electric telegraph to communicate to his students the very mind of the ancient world in the developements of their own language and literature, is a better teacher of the English language and literature than another professor who teaches English Literature from Spauldiyig's Oompend and the English Language from Craik'g Outlines. Sf) Another remark I bog to mako, relatis to the expense of University buildings. It has been said that I was present at the Senate in March 1854, whenCfhief Justice Draper prepared an address to the Gov(!rnor (Jeneral for a grant to erect the buihlings of the University. I may have been present, though I have no recol- lection of it, nor of the contents of the address referred to; but if I were present, it must have been then that I made the suggestion, as the only suitable occasion for Bucha suggestion, which the Hon. Mr. Morrisnn, who only attended the Senate two or throe times, recollects having been made — namely, tliat Upper Canada College build- ings be applied to the use of University College, and the Masters be appointed to Master- ships of Grammar Schools, with such allowance from the Upper Canada College endow- ment as would secure them against personal loss from the discontinuanccof that institu- tion, ahd the application of its revenues to augment the Grammar School Fund. At all events, my Istte* to Mr. Uinckn, July, i8r)2, when I proposed the sum of jG6,000 for the erection of a University building, shows that my views were more economical at that time than ov"n now. It may at first thought appear strange in these days of large expenditures, how so small a sum should be sufficient for such a purpose; but it Avill not appear so strange if we consider the true objects of the University, and that the Queen's University in Ireland has no separate building, has only a Secretary with a salary ofoC'550, with ''Incidentals, Office Expenses, Postage, Messengers, Advertisements, &c.," amounting to jG180,"and " Exhibitions, Prizes and Medals," amounting to .£47'): in all for Office Charges, £1,005; nor will the sum I proposed appear small even for a building accommodating the several Professorships and Lectureships I suggested, when you consider how plain and in- expensive and variously used are the lecture-rooms of Professors in the Universi- ties at Leipsic, Ilalle, lionn, (where Prince Albert was educated), and in Paris, at the Sorbonne, and the College de France, where I have attended lectures, by Du- pretSy Michelet, Girardin, Michel CJievalier and others, including Arago at the Observatoire, with Humboldt for a regular auditor. The lecture-room or theatre for lectures in Chemistry and Natural Philosophy was large, as were those for the popu- lar lectures in History and French Literature and Elocjuence, but with no other fur- niture than forms or straw-bottom chairs. I have heard Leverrier, the famous ma- thematician and astronomer, lectu» j in a room not more than twice as largo as this Committee room, and with furniture not costing half as much ; and in the same room I have heard lectures in Mineralogy and Geology. I have heard no less than six diflFerent Professors in as many different courses H the same lecture-room, lec- turing different hours of the day and on different days in the week. The great men of Europe give greatness to the plain and unpretending places whence they pour forth the treasures of profound learning and mighty intellect ; but Dr. Wil- son, as the representative of Toronto University College, insists upon " stone and marble" magnificence as essential to a great people, and, of course, to great Pro- fessors and great lectures in "this Canada of ours;" and thus are our Uuiversity Funds frittered away by hundreds of thousands of dollars upon the ''material and the inanimate at the expense of the intellectual and the moral." Mr. Langton thought that some $1,800 was not too large a sum for the ceremonial of laying the top stone of the University buildings. The Governor General, Lord Elgin, laid the corner-stone of the Normal School buildings in the presence of the Members of both Houses of the Legislature, and the ceremony cost just X20, and that for scaf- folding ; and Sir John B. Robinson opened the building when finished, with a noble address, in the presence of a large assembly, and the ceremony cost the expense of gas to illuminate the edifice. In concluding my remarks, I submit that the question for the decision of the Committee is not my merits or demerits, although the latter have been brough before you day after day at great length, in various forms, and with various ability 36 i Nor do I think the i aerits or details of the proceedings of the petitioners, who have been so severely reflected upon, are the grave ^ abjects of your deliberation and decision. The great question, I submit, which demands your attention, is. What should bedone to correct the acknowledged evils of the past, and make legal and effectual provision for a system of liberal education in Upper Canada? Sir, the very advocates of the present system have conceded nearly all that has been urged, neai'ly all that has been complained of or demanded, except they still insist upon the monopoly of the money. They have conceded that the Senate is not properly constituted. They have conceded that they have reduced the cu/ricu- lum. They admit that the Professors ought not to bo the examiners of their own students, but justify the practice in their case on the ground of circumstances of necessity. They have arlmitted that there arc needless Professorships in TJniversity College. They admit that expenses may be reduced ; and Mr. Langton says that some of them have already been cut down. Then, Sir, I would ask whether respect is not due to the senUments of large religious bodies in this country, and whether the statesmui and patriot should not take into consideration the feelings of people who constitute a large portion of the Christianity of the Province ? No one can conceive the progress which the agita- tion of this question has already made in Upper Canada, its influence on the people, the strength of public sentiment it evokes. When the agitation commenced, a few months ago, it was said " Oh, it is only the doings of a few Methodist Preachers, and will soon die a natural death." But Avhat arc the facts? Why, that 16 district conventions and 250 quarter meetings, of the official laity of the Wesleyan Church, with but one exception, in the County of Prince Edward, and then, by a mere accident, have all supported the views Avhich have been submitted for your consideration this day. There always have been and always will be exceptions in such cases ; but such unity never existed in the religious body on any public question at any former time, although it was said the agitators Avcre only a smr". portion of the preachers, with whom the Wesleyan body at hu-gc did not sympathize. That statement you see was a great mistake ; while you find that the Presbyterians of the Church of Scotland, and a large portion of the Church of England, concur in the views of the W esleyan body . And, Sir, this is only the commencement. If the discussions of the past year should continue for another, there will be a body of feeling in Upper Canada such as there has not been on any subject since the agitation of the Clergy Reserve question — merely Trom the fact that this subject goes home to the consciences and the religious feelings of the people of the country, the best and holiest feelings of fathers and mothers throughout the land. I ask whether the decision of this Committee should not give equal justice to all parties and classes in the community, according to their works ? The sentiment of our country has ever been against monopolies. Even the gentlemen of the Toronto University say they wished to prevent Upper Canada College from becoming a monopoly. Sir, there may be a non-denominational as well as a denominational monopoly, and equally hateful to the country, destitute, as it must be, of all the ties and aspirations which religious feelings create. Among the several denominations in the land, some have expressed their views in favor of a non-denominational College. I do not go so far as Dr. Cook, regarding anon-denominational College only as "objectionable." I admit that there ought to be a non-denominational College. Sir, let those people have one, and if they do not want to pay for it themselves, let the institution now established be perpetuated and supported for them ; but at the same time, let the views anf' feelings of other classes of our fellow-citizens be consulted, who do not rely upon the State for everything, but who erect their own buildings, defray a 37 large portion of their expenses, and prove bv liberal Bubscriptions the eintcrity of their professions, while the non-denominational people contribute not one cent, towards the erection or support of their College. I ask if the State is to ignore the former and exclusively patronize the' latter ? Are the Weslcyan peoT)le espe- cially to stand impugned and impeached in the presence of the representatives of the country as the friends of ignorance, or the prompters of social evil, when, prior to all other efforts of the kind, they commenced, in 1832, to erect a College build- ing which is respectable at the present day ? Sir, no one can conceive the labors and efforts requisite to establish such an institution, and so much needed at that day ; no one can conceive the difficulties encountered in ob+aining a Royal Charter for it in 1836 ; and the mortifications and hardships in soliciting donations and subscriptions in England to the amount of $25,000 ; and few can estimate the bless- ings the College has conferred upon the country in educating and largely forming the character of some thousands of Canadian youths ; nearly all of whom have illustrated the benefits of a religious and liberal instituion of learning, and a con • siderablc number of them have risen to distinction in different professions and employments. In the presence of such facts, and of the past of this country, I ask if the Wcsleyan body arc to be impugned as they have been by Dr. Wilson, and are they to be repelled rather than respected by their country's representatives ? Are they to be treated thus, not by those who have borne the burden and heat of the day during the infancy and growth of our Canadian life and civilization, but by those who only come here for the sake of the salaries they enjoy ? In the last place, I submit that the Committee should look to the establish- ment of a system possessing the elements of unity, comprehensiveness, solidity, economy, and permanence. It is only in the union and comprehension of all classes of the community, you have a guarantee for the solidity and the permanence of your institutions. , * , One thing more. It is perfectly well known to the Committee, that its time for the last four or five days has been occupied, not in the investigation of thesii principles, but by attempts to destroy what is dearer to me than life, in order to crush the cause with which I am identified ; and a scene has been enacted here, somewhat resembling that which took place in a certain Com- mittee room, at Toronto, in regard to a certain Inspector General. Every single forge tfulness or omission cf mine, has been magnified and tortured in every possible way, to destroy my reputation for integrity and my standing in the Country. A newspaper in Toronto, whose editor-in-chief is a man of very great no coriety, has said since the commencement of this inquiry that, in my early days, I made mercenary approaches to another church, but was indignantly repelled, and hence my present position. I showed the other day, that I might have occupied the place of Vice Chancellor of the University which Mr. Langton now holds, had I desired (and the proposal was made to me after my return from Europe, in 1866,) and I have similar records to prove that in 1825, after the commencement of my Wesleyan Ministry, I had the authoritative offer of admission to the Ministry of the Church of England. My objection, and my soleobjection was, that my early religious principles and feelings were wholly owing to the instrumentality of the Methodist people, and I had been Providentially called to labor among them ; not that I did not love the Church of England. Those were " saddlebag days," and I used to carry in my saddlebags two books, to which I am more indebted than to any other two books in the English language, except the Holy Scriptures, namely, the Prayer Book ar a the Homilies of the Church of England. At this very day. Sir, though I have often opposed the exclusive assumptions of some members of 38 r the Church of England, I only love it less than the Church with which I am im- ijlj mediately associated. I have been charged with being the leader of the present movement. I am entitled to no such honor. If I have written a line, it has been as the amanuensis of my ecclesiastical superiors ; if I have done anything, it has been in compliance with the wishes of those whom I love and honor ; and my attachment to the Wesleyan body, and the associations and doings of my early years, have been appealed to, as a ground of claim for ray humble aid in connec- tion with this movement. Sir, the Wesleyan people, plain and humble as they were, did me good in my youth, and I will not abandon them in my old age. I have only further to add, that whatever may be my shortcomings, and even sins, I can say with truth that I love my country ; that by habit of thought, by association, by every possible sympathy I could awaken in my breast, I have sought to increase my affection for my native land. I have endeavoured to invest it with a sort of personality, to place it before me as an individual, beautiful in its proportions, as well as vigorous in all the elements of its constitution, and losing sight of all distinctions of classes, sects and parties, to ask myself, in the presence of that Being before whom I shall shortly stand, what I could do most for my country's welfare, how I could contribute most to found a system of education that would give to Canada, when I should be no more, a career of splendour which will make its people proud of it. I may adopt the words of a poet — though they be not very poetical : — "Pweet place of my kindred, blest land of my birth, '' The fairest, the purest, the dearest on earth ; " Where'er I may roam, where'er I may be, " My spirit instinctively turns unto thee." Whatever may have been the course of proceeding aaop*ed towards me in this inquiry, I bear enmity to no man ; and whatever may be the result of this investi- gation, and the decision of the Committee, I hope that during the fcAv years I have to live, I shall act consistently with the past, and still endeavour to build up a country that will be distinguished in its religious, social, moral, educational, and even political institutions and character ; to assist in erecting a structure of intel- lectual progress and power, on which future ages may look back with respect and gratitude, and thus to help, in some humble degree, to place our beloved Canada among the foremost nations of the earth. ' : U •■ Document accompanying Dr. Byerson's Reply to Mr. Langton and Dr. Wilson^ being extracts of a letter addressed by him to the Hon. F. Hincks, containing a plan of a Provincial University, including denominational Colleges, in connexion with our present Common. School System. Toronto, 22nd July, 1862. Dear Sir, — According to promise I now proceed to state in writing the result of my observations and reflections on that part of the system of public instruction in Upper Canada, which relates to a Provincial University, and to University Colleges, In order to prevent any misapprehension of the views and suggestions I venture to submit, I beg to make a few preliminary remarks. Light in which the question should be viewed. I have always been accustomed to contemplate and discuss public questions . .<: a provincial, rather than a denominational point of view, in reference to their bearing upon the condition and interests of the country at large, and not upon those of par- ticular religious persuasions, as distinct from public interests, or upon the interests of any one religious persuasion more than those of another. And this I think is 89 the true difference between a mere sectarian and patriot ; between considering the institutions and legislation and government of a country in a sectarian or patriotic spirit. The one places his sect above his country, and supports or opposes every public law or measure of government just as it may or may not promote the interests of his own sect, irrespective of public interests, and in rivalship with those or other sects ; the other views the well-being of the country as the great end to be proposed and pursued, and the sects as among the instrumentalities tributary to that end. Some, indeed, have gone to the extreme of viewing all the religious persuasions as evils to be dreaded and as far as possible proscribed, rather than as distinct agencies more or less promotive of morality and virtue, and their rivalships tending to stimulate to greater activity, and, therefore, as a whole, more beneficial than injurious. Regard to the state and religious character of the country. My second preliminary remark is, that as the educational as well as other mstitutions of a country, must have reference to, and be greatly modified by its social state and character ; so in the collegiate, as well as elementary department of Public Instruction, the religious persuasions of the country cannot be disregarded, as they form some of the most powerful and important of the social elements which enter into the constitution of the moral and intellectual character of the people of the country. In Upper Canada, the number of persons who would theoretically or practically exclude Christianity in all its forms as an assential element in the educa- tion of the country, is exceedingly small ; and to base any of our educational institutions upon the sentiment of such persons, will inevitably ensure their abant donment and rejection by the people at large. A system of education, whethe- collegiate or elementary, which ignores the religious sentiments of a people, cannor prosper or long exist among them except by coercion. * * * * Defect, as to religious instruction and oversight. Then there is the fact — and a painful fact it is — that whether a student keeps or violates the Sabbath — attends worship or frequents taverns — is virtuous or vicious — is ao matter of concern in the University ; in respect to the oversight of which each student may say, as if he were in the land of pagan darkness and death, " no man careth for my soul." I do not think this need be so, constituted as the University now is ; it is not so in the administration of the Provincial Normal School. But it is certain, that few parents in Upper Canada, would entrust their sons from home, and during the most eventful years of their educational training, under the care of any institution whose authority and oversight never extended to those principles, habits and dispositions, without which the best educated man is but an accomplished knave, and a curse rather than a blessing to a community. Experiments of the present system. If an examination was instituted, it would also be found that comparing the annual expenditure of University funds, with the annual number of University graduates, more than twice as large a sum has been expended, as would have been required to send each of the graduates to the best University in America or Europe, and pay all the expenses of his journeys, residence, books, lectures, clothing, &c., &c. No reason for continuing such a system. Under these circumstances, I see no economical or public grounds on which the present system of University expenditure and instruction can be justified ; nor do 1 think the public feeling, when the subject comes to be discussed, will suffer such an application, or rather waste of the most splendid University endowment in America, to be perpetuated. As now expended,thiB endowment is injurious rather 40 than advantageous to all the leading religious persuasions of the Province ; and self-defence, as well as other consideratiens, will prompt them to unite with that portion of the people who deem no State University endowment necessary, to Vt abolish it altogether, and apply the proceeds to purposes of common education. The question to be considered. The question then arises, in what way can the University endowment be applied, so as to render it most useful to the country at large, and so as to interest all classes in perpetuating it inviolate for the purposes originally contemplated, by their deriving manifest advantages from i<^s application. Recognition of the principle of religious instruction and oversight essential. The first step to a consummation so devoutly to be wished is, that the system of University education to which the endowment should be inviolabl f applied, should be such as will receive the approval and support of the great body of the people, especially of the better educated classes. This can only be done by the recogni- tion of a principle regarded as important and vital by more than nine-tenths of the people — namely, religious instruction and oversight forming an essential part of the education of the youth of the country. I believe that no attempt to deny, to conteract, or to ;>''" the recognition and application of this principle, can suc- ceed, in respect to eil ^ ommon School or University Education. I lay it down then as a fundamental ^ ciple, that religious instruction must form a part of the education of the youth of our country, and that that religious instruction must be given by the several religious persuasions to their youth respectively. The Com- mon Schools are, as a general rule, brought within an hour's walk of each family in the land ; and therefore the oversight and duties of the parents and pastors of the children attending these schools, are not, in the least, suspended or interfered with. The constitution or order of discipline and liturgy of each religious persua- sion, enjoins upon its clergy and members to teach their children the summary of religious faith and practice required to be taught to the children of the members of each persuasion. To require, therefore, any sort of denominational teaching in Common Day Schools, is not only a Avork of supererogation, but a direct interfe- rence with the liturgical or disciplinary codes and functions of each religious per- suasion, and providing by law for the neglect of clerical and parental duties, by transferring those duties to the Common School teacher, and thus sanctioning immoralities in pastors and parents which must, in a high degree, be injurious to the interests of public morals. The cry for denominational day schools that has been raised by two or three ecclesiastics in Upper Canada, is as senseless as it is un- patriotic and selfish. It is a barefaced demand that the school master shall do the work of the clergyman, and that the State shall pay him for it ; a scheme under which the expenses of educating the whole people would be multiplied many fold, and under which a large portion of the poor youth of the country would be left Avithout any means of education upon terms within reach of the pecuniary resour- ces of their parents, unless at the expense of their religious faith. Economy as well as patriotism requires the schools for all to be open to all upon equal terms, and upon principles common to all — leaving to each religious persuasion the per- formance of its own recognized and appropriate duties in the religious teaching of its own youth. In such schools, the children can be with the teacher only from nine o'clock in the morning until four o'clock in the afternoon of five or six days ill the week ; while during each morning and evening, and the whole of each Sabbath, they are with their parents or pastors — and these are the portions of time which usage and ecclesiastical laws prescribe for religious studies and instruction, and for which the teacher, who only sees the children during six or seven of the working hours of each sgcijlftr day pf ^)^^ WPek? ought not to be held responi^lble, m of in by to un- the left 30ur- brms, per ig of Ifrom Idays leach time ition, the sible, and with which he cannot be burthened to the advantage of the children, or without criminal neglect on the part of their parents and pastors. I cannot therefore con- ceive that it is the duty of the Government to provide denominational teaching to the pupils in |the common day schools, any more than it is its duty to provide for their daily food and raiment, or a place of worship and preaching for them on the Sabbath. How this principle is to be applied in Academies and Colleges, and first reason for I\blic Aid to such Institutions. But in respect to Academies and Colleges the case is different. They are insti- tutions which cannot be brought within an hour's walk of but very few of those who wish and are able to resort to them. Youth, in order to attend such institu- tions, must, as a general rule, leave their homes, and bo taken from the daily over- sight and instructions of their parents and pastors. During this part and period of their education, the duties of parental and pastoral care and instruction must be suspended, or provision must bo made in connection with the Academies and Colleges for such oversight and instruction. Youth attending such Institutions, are at an age when they are most exposed to temptation — most need the best counsels in religion and morals — are pursuing studies which most involve the prin- ciples of human action, and the duties and relations of human life. At such a period and under such circumstances, youth need the exercise of all that is tender and vigilant in parental affection, and all that is wise in pastoral oversight ; yet they are far removed both from their parents and pastors. Hence what is supplied by the parent and pastor at home, must be provided in connection with the Acade- my and College abroad. And therefore the same reason which condemns the establishment of denominational common schools, justifies the establishment of de- nominational Academies and Colleges, in connection with which the duties of the parent and the pastor can be best discharged. It is therefore absurd to suppose, as some have contended, that if we discountenance denominational common schools, we must condemn denominational Academies and Colleges. There are scarcely aa many persons in Upper Canada in favor of the former, as would form a considerable party in any one Church — especially in any Protestant Church — much less in the country at large ; while the great majority of the country are supporters of the latter. Second reason for Public Aid to Denominational Colleges. Aiding denominational Colleges is also acting, in another respect, upon the principle on which aid is given to Common Schools, namely, local contributions to the same object. No aid is given to a denominational College until after a large outlay has been made by its projectors in the procuring of premises, erection or procuring of buildings, and the employment of professors and teachers — evincive of the intelligence, disposition and exertions of a large section of the community to establish and sustain such institution. Third reason for Public Aid to Denominational Colleges. There is another reason for public aid to denominational Colleges, based also upon the principle upon which aid is given to Common Schools and other literary institutions. It is that such aid is given for the advancement of science and liter- ature alone. It is not proposed to endow or aid denominational Colleges for de- nominational purposes ; but because such Colleges are the most efficient and avail- able agencies for encouraging and extending the study of the higher branches of education in the country. It is not recommended to give Legislative aid to any Theological Seminaries, or for the support of theological professors in any of the denominational Colleges ; nay, it may be proper and expedient to provide that in case any of the Colleges to which Legislative aid is given, have or shall have theo- 42 logical professors, no part of the aid thus given shall be expended in payment of the salaries of such professors, and that their salaries shall be provided for from sources independent of the literary funds of such Colleges. Fourth reason for public aid to denominational Colleges. This view of the subject appears to me to command itself with equal force on the ground of economy. Every person must admit the desirableness and import- ill ancc of expending the University Education Fund to the best advantage ; and I think fcAV can deny or doubt that it has hitherto been expended to the least, or rather to the worst advantage. The number of professors in the Faculty of Arts — that is, in the College proper for the under graduates — has never exceeded four,; and it has always been maintained that the duties of that Collegiate department of the University have been as efficiently performed as in any of the Colleges of the English Universities. As to the Faculty of Law and Medicine (there being one professor in the former, and seven in the latter,) they are mere appendages to the University, consuming its funds. Attendance on the lectures in either of these faculties, is not necessary to obtain the degree of Bachelor or Master of Arts ; they exist for any young men who may be studying for either profession, and arc not so numerously attended as other schools of LaAv and Medicine in Toronto, that receive no Legislative aid. I do not believe that the existence of the Faculties as now constituted, is of any advantage to the country, or is desired by the members generally of the Professions of Law and Medicine. Objection that you are endowing sectarianism anstoered. , . This view appears to me so irresistibly conclusive, that I will not enlarge upon it ; but will advert for a raoment to two objections which may be made to the proposed system of aiding denominational colleges. The one objection is, that you are thereby endowing sectarianism. This oft-repeated objection, is only a superficial fallacy — a fallacy consisting of a mere play upon words. Now to endow sectarianism is a very different thing from aiding sectarians to do what is promotive of the interests of all classes of society. If a legislative grant were made to a benevolent society of the Church of England, or Rome, or the Presbyterian, Wes- leyan, or Baptist Church, to relieve sick and pauper immigrants, would it be en- dowing sectarianism, or employing the already organized agency of a sect to pro- mote a public object? The grants to denominational colleges are not to support those who are preaching sectarianism, and for the purpose of teaching it ; but sup- porting those who indeed hold and act upon the doctrines of some sect, yet support- ing them as teachers of the English and other languages. Mathematics, Philosophy, &c., in which there is no religious, nor political sectarianism. It is true the religious persuasion whose college may be thus aided, may and probably will dei'ive advantage from any contribution or grant which may increase its efficiency ; but that advantage is chiefly indirect and remote. So may a religious body derive some advantage from any College which affords facilities for the education of its youth, or from a government and laws which facilitate its labors. There arc also two facts involved in the question which cannot be overlooked ; the one is, that the denomination whose College may be added, has largely contributed to the same object, and assumes all the responsibility and labor of carrying it into effect. The second is, that the religious sects are the only actual and probable agencies in inculcating and maintaining the christian morals of the country, and without which the country would be without the first elements of civilization and in a state of anarchy if not barbarism. These facts the objector cannot deny, though he may seek to suppress them. The real question for the consideration of the statesman and philanthropist is, in what way can each thousand pounds, or each pound of the University Fund, " m be made instrumental in educating the largest number of youth in the higher branches of education, with the best preventatives against impairing or endir.gering their morals ? This is the great object with which the statesman has to do ; and if in promoting this object in the most efficient and economical manner for the general welfare, some advantage should fall to the agency employed, it remains for the objector to show that such incidental advantage, for so great a Ipublic benefit, and so much labor, would bo a calamity to be dreaded. Second objection, that denominational Colleges will become too numerous, ansivered. A second objection which may be made to aiding denominational Colleges is, that they may become too numerous, and that each denomination does not possess such CL^^eges and would not therefore be included in such a system. To the first part ot this objection I reply, that there is no danger of institutions becoming more numerous than the wants of the country may require, the establishment of which insolves the vigorous and combined exertion of so much intelligence, resources, and voluntary bencvolenco ; and should such Colleges become more numerous than could be aided to the amount now proposed to be given to each of the denomina- tional Colleges, the aggregate amount set apart annually for that pui'pose could be easily adjusted and distributed upon the principles of equity and fairness. In regard to the fact that, all the denominations have not Colleges, I remark that it is more than probable they all never will have Colleges ; but it is certain that the views and feelings of a greater proportion of the population will be met by means of several Colleges rather than be one alone. A Presbyterian College, or at least two such Colleges, must certainly meet the doctrinal sentiments and religious experience of all sections of Calvinists, and a Methodist College those of all sec- tions of Methodists. To the Methodist College already established, I know that students from the several sections of Methodists in the country, have resorted, and some of them candidates for the ministry in their own section or body, and have pursued their studies there with satisfaction and success. On this point, I may also make two additional remarks : 1. The greater part of those members of reli- gious persuasions not having Colleges of their OAvn, who wish to send sons to college, would much rather send them to a college under the auspices of another religious persuasion than their own, yet pervaded by a christian spirit and exerci- sing religious care over its students, than to send them to a college under no religious superintendence and exercising no care in regard to the religious princi- ples and morals of its students. 2. In each of the denominational Colleges, I believe no religious test is required in the admission of students. I know the Charter of Victoria College forbids the application of any religious test on the admission of any student : and the authority of the College has been as sedulously exerted in requiring those students who Avere members of some other Church than that of the College, to attend the worship of their own Church, as in requiring the attendance of Methodists at the worship of their Church. ^1 non-denominational College for those denominations and classes who desire it. Should it be objected, that there is a. considerable portion of the people of the country, who are opposed to sending their .children to any denominational College whatever, I reply that I do not propose to abolish the collegiate depart- ment of the Toronto University, but to continue the experiment with an endowment of twice as large a sum as it has been proposed to grant to each of the denomina- tional Colleges. While, therefore, the views and wishes of this class of persons arc liberally met, they cannot complain, except in the spirit of the most illiberal tyranny, if the views and wishes of others of stronger religious convictions than themselves, are also, in some measure, consulted. 44 I I :j^ ' Should the foregoing suggestions be approved, the Funds of the University will bo maintained inviolate for the purposes originally contemplated, and I think practical effect will be given to the views and wishes of nine-tenths, if not nine- teen-twentieths of the people of Upper Canada, while the facilities and interests of the higher branches of education will be greatly extended. Now as to the means by which I would promote these results, I venture to submit the following suggestions as to the outline of the plan. Suggestion — Firsts the management of the Endowment. 1. I would make the Crown the trustee of the magnificent endowment, instead of an irresponsible Corporation, and I would transfer the sale and management of the lands to the Crown Land Department, and let the investments of the proceeds of sales be made under the authority of the Crown. I have no doubt but that the management of the present University Endowment is honest and judicious : but it costs to the fund, in my opinion, at least a thousand pounds per annum more than it would, were it managed as are the Grammar School lands. * * Second — a Provincial University, how constituted; current expenses of it ; Pro- fessorships in it; expense of buildings; estimated expense of building un- der Mr. Baldwins (Government. 2. I would propose further to maintain and give eifect to the idea which has been vaguely though popularly held, namely, the idea of a Provincial University, sustaining a common relation to all the Colleges of the country, and providing in- struction in subjects and branches of science and literature which do not come within the undergraduate curriculum in amf College. I would suggest the establishment of an institution to be designed "The University of Upper Canada," the Council or supreme authority of which should be designated " The Regents of the University of Upper Canada," consisting of, say the President or Principal and one Professor of each College (to be chosen by the authorities of such College), and twelve persons appointed by the Crown, three of whom shall retire annually, and be re-appointed, and their places filled by others, at the pleasure of the Crown. I think that at present about £3000 per annum of the University Endowment should be placed at the disposal of the Regents, of which at least £1000 per annum should be expended by them in the purchase of books, speci- mens and objects of various kinds, suitable for a University Library and Museum. I would transfer to this University the library and museum of the present Toronto University. I would connect with this University such Professorships as those of Ancient and Modern Philosophy and Literature, General History, Natu- ral History, Astronomy, Political Economy, Civil Engineering, Agriculture, &c. I would make the Library and Lectures free to the Professors, Graduates, and Undergraduates of all the incorporated colleges, and perhaps to the members and students of the professions generally, according to prescribed regulations. I would have the lectures easily accessible if not free to the public. The building for such University would consist of four or six lecture rooms or theatres, a li- brary and museum. Two or more of the courses of lectures could be delivered in the same lecture room, as they are in Paris. Sometimes five or six courses of lec- tures are there delivered in th(f same room. A janitor is suflBcient for the care of such a building ; and one librarian would be suflScient for the library and museum. The cost of such a building need not exceed X6,000. But excellent accommoda- tion at little expense can, in the meantime, be obtained for the professional lec- tuies. Plans have been prepared and tenders have been made, but not yet ac- cepted, for the erection,'of Toronto University buildings, at an estimated expense of about £20,000 ; but the present building is ample to accommodate all the un- dergraduates attending or likely to attend the College for many years. 45 Tenure of Professorships. I would mako the appointments or the elections of profcsHors periodical, at least to some of the professorships, as is the case in several of the University pro- fessorships at Oxford and Camhridge. As the duties of a professorship would con- sist of a limited number of lectures during certain months of the year, and would bo an honorary distinction, I would not have the salaries large. Poioers of the University. I would authorize the Regents of the University of Upper Canada, to estab- lish, with he approval of the Governor General, professorships in any department of science and literature ; to appoint and remove professors and other officers, and determine their duties and the amount of their remuneration ; and to appoint from time to time an inspector or inspectors to visit and report annually upon the state of the Colleges and Grammar schools receiving public aid ; to possess and exer- cise, by a committee or otherwise, all the powers in regard to the Normal School, text and library books and regulations for Common Schools, that are noAv exer- cised by " the Council of Public Instruction," and all the powers which were pro- posed to be given to that body by the Grammar School Bill of 1850 in regard to Grammar Schools ; to determine the standard and conditions of conferring degrees in the arts and sciences ; to appoint examiners to examine, and to confer degrees on candidates presenting themselves, according to conditions prescribed, from any of the incorporated colleges in Upper Canada, so that if the degrees of any of these colleges should be of little value, there would be a remedy for the evil, and meri- torious men would be able to obtain the distinctions to which they might be entitled. I think there can be no comparison between the influence upon literature and science of a number of professors in a University thus constituted, and that of the same number of professors and at the same expense attached to the present Toronto University (College), attended by some score of undergraduates, not one of whom might attend any of the lectures referred to ; nor do I think the importance of such a body as the proposed Regents can easily bo over-rated in giving weight, unity, symmetry, and appropriateness to every part of our system of public instruction. '; Provincial School of Law. 3. Though it may be said, and^said popularly, that the legal and medical pro- fessions should provide for their own professional education as well as the profes- sion of theology ; yet I would be in favour of granting from the University Fund some £500 or more per annum to the Law Society, for the employment of Law lecturers. As that society is incorporated, determines the condition of admission to the study of the profession, prescribes regulations for students at law, and then prescribes the standard and examination for their admission as Barristers, I think it would be appropriate for the authorities of the Society to prescribe a course of studies and a course of lectures for the students, appoint lecturers, and require such courses to be delivered during terms, to be attended by all students at law, who should be examined in the subjects of such lectures, as well as in the books required to be read. It appears to me that such a system in the LaAV Department is simple and feasible, and that if carried into effect, it would exert a salutary in- fluence upon the whole legal profession in Upper Canada — very different from having one Professor of Law in the Toronto University, lecturing betimes to some half dozen students, but not recognized in any way by the Incorporated Law Society of Upper Canada. Provincial — School of Medicine. 4. Should the medical profession of Upper Canada be incorporated in a man- ner similar to that in which the legal profession has been incorporated, I think 4t) ^750 or j£l,000 of tho University endowment, and the present medical lecture rooms of the Toronto University, mi{i;lit bo placed jit the disposal of such Medical Society, for tho employment of lecturers and other purposes in the interest of tho Medical profession and Medical science of Upper Canada. The system when and where devised. Such are the general suggestions, without entering into and indeed omitting details, I venture to submit on this grave and comprehensive subject — suggestions, however, the most important of which I meditated on some of tho highest moun- tains in Europe several years ago, and wliich I cmbodielishing wore the sanio as thoso now established. Tho above amendment, mov.^d by luu, shows that while t opposed tho appropriation of more than £10^)0 for scholarships, I proposed to confine the competition for such scholarships to poor young men. Tho resolutions quoted by Mr. Brovm, S;.eclfy not tho creation, but tho awarding or distribution of the scholar.'^hips previously created. They show tho prefer* ence given to general jiroficicnci/, ten out oftho lif'teea scholarships at Matriculation to bo given to those who held the highest places in oeneiial classes ; srAum out of the first year, andyJue for each of the two following years, also for general proficiency; whereas, according to the present system, only one scholarship i3 given for general proficiency the first year, and none for any one of the following years, and none for poor young men ; they always competing at a disadvantage, as rich men arc able to employ private tutors for their sons. The Rev. Mr. Nellcs, in his evidence in answer to question 400, quotes the pro- ceedings of the Senate, and shows how contrary to the records themselves, are the state- ments contained in Mr. Broun's questions. As well might iVIr. Dorian be charged with hav- in{» voted to divide Montreal into three electoral districts, because when a Bill which ho ha^i opposed was passed to make such a division, lie wished to render it aa consistent with his own views as possible. I opposed the creation of scholarships as proposed, and when they were established, I sought to make the distribution of them as just and beneficial as possi- ble, according to my views. Such false quotations from the official minutes of the Senate, in order to implicate me, are of a piece with the seven forged quotations made by the " Editor-in-chief" of the 6r/o6e, ' which I exposed last year, and to which he has never attempted any reply. E. RYERSON. Qaebee, April 23rd, 1860. 6 nx.: £30 «p ^ E K R A T U M The first line of page 'd2,/or 182, read 18}. . ii .. ''I )■■ ..■\- : ■';.•■.,? ■/( PETITION. To the HonorahU the Legislative Council of the Province of Can- ada, in Parliament assembled, THK PiM'ITION OK TIIK (CHANCELLOR, VICECHAiNCEIiLOll AND SKNATW OF THK UNlVERSri-y OK TORONTO III nm.T SiiKWKTii : ,. ♦ ' ,i ; ,; . vvi u. (;,:■!: !••,,,' .■) Tli&t H IVtition of .loscpli 8tin?oi), D. T)., and Kpliniiiu 15. llnrper, on bohalf of the ('oiilert'iico of the We!«loynii Methodist ('hurch in Canudii, ha.s bcon pro.-^fntoil to your Hon- ornbK' Hoiisi', j)rayi!iir aiiionpft dtlior thinirs, that ymi will fausi- nii invostiiration to bo iii- stitiitod iutii the manner in whieh the Univcrs^ity Act has been adiniri'stfred, and the funds (if the Kndownicnt hnvo boon oxtonrlod. Whilst your IVtitioners cordially contnr in thaf portion of the ]ir^yer of the aforfsftid l*e(ition, they feel eallod upon to submit to your lloMui-abb' IIou-'i' sdine ob.-ervatiotis upou the alleirations therein set forth. It i.s alleged, tiiat " the Senate of the I'uiversity of Toronto, instead of pivinir efFeet to the liberal intentions ol" the Leirislature, determined to ideiilify tlie Institution witli one ('(ille!:(' in eontradistinetion, and to tlie e.xelnsion efall others." Vour I'etitioners can sliow that no Statute ha,s been passed, nor has any other aetion been taken by the k^'cnare which plaees Univer.sity (-olh'L'O upon any different footiiiL:- IVom the otlier Colleges rilTiliated to the [Jiiiversity ; the only dilference beinj; that I'niversity t'olK'L'e at once ado[)ted the (Uirleu- hun of study whieli tlie Senate was empowered to prescribe : whereas the other colle,i:;es, an far :us the Senate hiw been notified, have not adopted it, but have continued to act upon the rniversity ])owers coi'.fcrred upon them by their several Charti-rs; aiid to irrant Deforces to their Students upon their own Kxaniinations. It is further nlleired. that "the eurrieuhnn of the I niversity studies, instead of beini:, elcTated and conlined to that of the London University, ha*; been revised and ehaniied tliree times since IHTii), and reduced, by options and otherwise, lielow what it formerly wa.*;, and below what it i.s, in the l?ritisli l.^niversities, and below what it is in the br«t('(dle};e.'! in the United States;" and it is added, that the effeet has been "to reduce tlie standarl of a I'niversity j.Dep.ree, both in Arts and Medicine, below what it wa+s before the passinir of the University Act in L':3." The (\)urse of Study, a,s ori,i;inally determined ujioii iu ^I> the special recjuiroments of his education, as a preparation for his future Profession. In carrying out the special functions of the University, the temporary accommodation provi.lcd for the Library, Museums, and other indispensiblo requirements, — but, above all, f.>r the e.vuminations in the different Faculties and Departments, was so inade(iuate, as ma- terially to interfere with the proper fulfilment of its most importafit duties; and the faet of there having been four successive removals since the passing of the last Univorgity Act, abundantly proves the necessity of providing adc(|uate permanent accommodation, befort? the University could lioi)e properly to fulfil the objects lor which it Wiis established. The, Senate was accordingly entrusted by the Executive with the erection of suitable buildings, for it> own accommodation and that of University College. They have now completed a buililiuu not unsuitable, in their bcliel', to the National University and College of this ris- ing' Province. They have also made considerable additions to the Library and Museum, which they have provided shall be open to the public at large, without any restriction, so as to make them truly Provincial Institutions. These objects neces,sarily involved a con- siderable expenditure, which was authorized by the Executive, in accordance with the pro- visions of the University Act, to be charged against the Pernnmeut Fund. Vour Petition- ers believe that this expenditure has not been excessive, considering the importance of the results sought to be ifttained. Your Petitioners therciore i)ray that you will maintain in the Provineial University the liberal and unsectarian system, which forms the principle upon whieh the Preparatory Educational Institutions of this country have been so successfully established; and that you will Dre.sorve intact the endowment now applied under existing Statutes for establisi;- ini: one hi-'h and unitbrm standard of education adapted to the condition and wants of the Pnivince a't large, instead of encouraging the uncertain systems which must certainly result from the division of the Provincial Endowment among many small and necessarily iuq)er- fectly orgaaized Institutions. , And your Petitioners will cTcr pray, Ac. (Signed) JOHN LANGTOl^, Sknatk UooM, Vice-Chancellw. March Ittth, 18G0. uiUrui^s, upleted ;i r this rifi- Museuiu, iction, Ml oil a coti- 1 the pro- Petitioii- ce of tlu'. t Jnivorsit^ / oi-inatory and that establish- uts of the inly rosulf ily iuipcv- • t jell©r. :? < tm <\ j5 •^i ■^ a- ffi:^ '■^ -» ^^ ■-■^ '^ W tH m «£ PI Cj I'd >> u ^^ o . w ^ ^ PS n ^ ct c s- • c- "* S! t— ' o oc cr. O' O tLJt TO ^ cr (c f» M _. HH C3 ?^ .<* ^ a 2 S-2, " g- ^ S^ ^ C. ^ o'3 P TO f^ a (n cl B- '." o B B (C n ^ U o a (t> -*3 c £/) s> !-•- ►1 S B "-^ fl- ^ o <- B i5 r: ft t— '• S o o o >-j B P (C t-t- f O O ►B i O c B a. B B 0=1 (t W tl. OS a: 5' o 1 Ci