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MR.

he n«

In the '.
Decembe
moving tl
bill to t
said :—

i»lr. Spe

tend to p

which is

day. Th(

day is for

When I w

marks 1 1

the order

reading oi

that the I

tee on Lej

er, I statai

presented

party bi

WOUl(j| 81

est ' atte
whether t]
approval c
but also it
who comp
regret that
has prever
tion before
thereJ|y gi

-■■■ 7^->. ■**.

W'lf I 'g^ ."<t ':,

THE COURTS OF QUEBEC.

MR. CASGRAINS MEASURE FOR THEIR RE-ORGANIZATION.
ITS PROVISION DISCUSSED.

he need of improvement urgent. How the proposed law will
meet the wants of the case.

RKI'BINTED FROM " THB GAKETTE," MONTBKAL, DECEMBER 26th, 1893.

In the Legi&lati e assembly on the 12th
December, Hon. T. Chase (^aegrain, in
moving the reference ot the Judicature
bill to the committee on Legislation,
said :—

i*lr. Speaker, — The motion which i in-
tend to propose to-day is nut the one
which is entered on the orders of the
day. The motion on the orders of the
day is for the second reading uf the bill.
Wiien I will have concluded the few re-
marks I have to make, I will move that
the order of the House fortlie second
reading of the bill be discbanred and
that the bill be referred to the commit-
tee on Legislation. Last year, Mr. Speak-
er, I stated that I hoped ttie bill which I
presented would nut be considered as a
party bill, but that the House
would, study it with the great-
est attent'ion, so as to see
whether the measure not only meets the
approval of th«j Hopoe and ot the country,
but also it it is sufhcient to' relieve those
who complain of the present system. I
regret that an illness ot nearly a fortnight
has prevented me from bringing the ques-
tion before the House until to-aay, and
thereliy giving tii« House an opportunity

"^ii^^b

of more deeply studying the measure
which I had the honor to submit.

ACTION OF THE BAR.

The invitation which we made last
year 'o the Bar, the magistracy and the
boards of trade to study the bill, has
been accepted, it is true, but accepted
very late. I had asked here in the
House that the invitation be accepted at
least before the first of July, 1893, so as to
give us time between that date and the
beginning of the session to study the sug-
gestions which might be made
and put into practice the obser-
vations which might be submitted
to us on the bill in question.
The fact is that the discussion on the bill
commenced only about the beginning of
the session. Seeing that the various sec-
tions of the Bar, the majority of these
sections, had not studied the bill, the
Government deemed it advisable to con-
vene here the delegates of all the sections
of the Bar and the members of the J^ju*
of the principal cities of the province to
study the bill with me. This invitation
was accepted and all the sections of the

^•4

rovince as well as tlie members of the
>ar of tfie lePfling dtiea ol the province
id metfie '._• ,; of uieetiiiK me liere,
Ve studied the bill for a wiiole day, a
lay very laboriouslv tilled, and we were
inabled to see what the general feeling
*as. at least that of the leiral ijiof'esaion.
It has been stated that the entire leiral
pW)fe88ioa iss oppnt^ .d to the measure. I
cannot allow tnat statement to go uncon-
tradicted.

-' IN KAVOKOI' THE U[M,.

We had here, for instance, the author-
ized representative of the section of the
i?ar of the district of Quebec, Hon. Mr.
Langelier. There was only one detail in
the whole bill to which the Quebec Bar
objected. This was the provision which
said that w l)en the city jiid^ies would dis-
appear, they would be replaced by those
appointed to perform their duties in the
country. With that exception Mr. Lange-
lier gave his adhesion to the bill, and in
that he represented, as 1 iiave already
said, the section of the Bar of the dis-
trict of Quebec. We had also the Bar
of Rimouski. represetitfcd by Mr. Poulioc.
and the Bar of the district ot Beauce, re-
presented by Mr. l.iniere Taschereau.
These gentlemen declared themselves in
favor oT the bill. It is true that tlie sec-
tions of Three Rivers, St. Francis, Bed-
ford, St. Hyacinthe and St. .lolins were
opposed to the bill and the Montreal Bar
was rei^resented by a gentleman who
said he was authorized to oppose the bill.
But I would like to call tlie attention of
the House to what happened at

THE MONTREAL BAK.

The question was discussed for some
time and one of the most distinguished
advocates of Montre*!, a gentleman
whom I am glad to count amongst my
friends, Mr. Globensky, wai instructed to
draw up a report against the bill, that is
to say on the bill and not agnhn't it ; be-
cause at the first meeting of the Montreal
Bar, if I am properly informed, the ques-
tion was considered without any decision
being come to either for or against the
measure. Mr. Globensky, who was
instructed by the council to draft
a report, made a report against the bill.
When the Montreal Bar was convened to
take Mr. Globensky's report^ iqto consid-

eration there were only twenty-three
members present out of over three hun-
dred, and the vote stood thirteen against
and ten in favor of the measure. I am
pleased to be able to tell the House that
distinguished men such as Mr. GeoHVion,
Mr. Gustave Lamothe, M.\ Demers, Mr.
Eugene i.afontaine, whom we have
known to such advantavje in this House,
have declared themselves in favor of the
bill. I say this merely to remove ttie
impression that the whole Bar is opposed
to the bill. I am still, at present, receiv-
ing letters from everywhere from my
brother advocates asking me not to refer
the bill to ttie cammittee on Legislation
but to have it passed this session.

WH.ST PETITIONERS THINK. .' ~

Moreover, amongst the resolutions and
petitions laid on the table of the House
as supplementary to the return to an
order of the House for copie&of all corre-
spondence on the subject, we laid on
the table a great many petitions lately
received from ratepayers of the province,
from ratepayer? ^f certain chefi^ luu.r,
from important "-' in t he province,

asking us to havt I. 'sstd. There

is a reason which, aL /& ••it "ttiier*. favors
the proposal 1 now mak' , • '.to r. !>*the
bill to the comnr'iiioe on Letjicla"-'
tion for further studw The honorable the
members oJ tlu' Houet huve ob.'^erveil
that the draft of the revised (■•()" vt ri\ ,
Procedure so long and so anxiou 3y ex-
pected, has been laid, ir tioth languages,
on the members' desk8,f id they have ob-
served that that bill coi ains, in its first
articles, provisions resp jcting the organ-
ization of the courts in the province of
Quebec. It could not be otherwise with
a code of proced e, because a code of
procedure cannot be complete, nor can it
contain all that it should contain, if it do
not contain the organization of the courts
of the province of Quebec. Now, we
have reached, in the labor of

REVISING THE CODE OF ITiOgEDUBE,

which we are now doing, about half the
work, and the other half, as 1 will state
in a few days, will be laid before this
House at the beginning ot next session.
I even hope, if the House wiH permit, to
be able to" distribute the other half of the
Code of Civil Procedure daring the re-

cess, so that it would not be possible or,
at least, it would not be prudent, to pass
a bill tbia year reorganizing the courts of
the province of (Quebec without, at the
same time, passing the Code of Civil Pro-
cedure, because both bills are co-relative,
are closely connected with eacli other.
And when we come to discuss a proposi-
tion afiecting the organization of the
courts, it will be seen that it at
once connects itsfcU with another provis-
ion of the Code uf Civil Procedure
which deals purely and simply with civil
procedure. As we cannot hope that the
code of civil procedure will be adopted
this session, 1 say that this is another
reason.wby the bill should be referred to
the Committee on Legislation so that the
committee may study it, it deemeil ad-
visable, or defer its consideration to next
year — in a word so that it may do what
the speech from tlie ttironesaid we would
do this year, that is, study the bill in
ouestion. A Iter these lew ••emarka, I have
not much to add to what I said in my
speech of last year. Nevertheless, as
some of my brother "d*" .:tes, some sec-
tions of the Baran ! .out r ftwspapers liave
done me the .. ifttitnti thorougiily dis-
cutising the ' Jdmo'ider ttiat it would
not be proper ■ > ini>. to allow to pass un-
norijed the remarlsi kindly made to me
in the very best spi,rit, without discussing
them and seekins; to ascertain their value.

,^w TIIK li.AN OK THK lilhl.. "

But before pro ceding to these remarks
1 think it is but ijiht that I should at
present once m .e explain the general
plan of the bill, : o that the House may
fully understand the question, may fully
understand the principle at stake, may
fully understand the r -^tline of the bill,
and be then in a position to study it with
a full knowledge of the subject. If we
refer to section 2 ofth« bill it will be seen
that the courts of * he province in civil,
criminal and mixed matters are:

1. The Court i/f Queen's Rencm: -. •.

(a) SittiDg In crimlr.il matters;

(b) Sitting in appeal.

2. The Superior court. •

3. The District court.

4. Tlie Conimlssloners' court.

5. The Court of Sessions of the Peace.
B. The Court of .Tusticesoi the Peace.
7. The Recorder's court.

I wish to call the attention of this
Houseonly to the first tliree courts, viz,

tbe|Courtof Queen's Bench, the Superior
court, the District court. ,, „

".1 ami '
THE Sl'l'ERIOR COUKT. •.

What is the constitution of the Superior
court and what is its jurisdiction? The
answer to this question will be found iij
sections 2(1, 27, 28 aud.,76 of the bill. Here
are sections 26 and 27, which deal with
ttie constitution of the court. I will read
them. 1 wouid hrst observe to the House
that there is a printer's error in both
these sections, a mistaKe in the figuret.
Thus, instead of 15 in the second linu of
pection 2(1 we should tiave 10, and in the
hrst line of section 27 instead of 9 we
must put 10, so that the sections read as
follows : —

28. The Superior court, which is a court of
record, consists of tllteeu [should be six-
teen) judges, having jurisdiction throuKliout
the province ; tliat is to say, ot the chief Justice
and fourteen puisne judges.

For the purposes of the administration of
justice for the Superior court, the province of
(.Quebec is divided into three parts :

I The Montreal division, comprising the
nine lollowlng districts: Montreal. Ottawa,
'J'errehonne, Jolietto, Kichelleu. Beautaarnols,
Bedford, Iberville and St. Hyaclnthe;

'i The (.Quebec division, comprising tlie ten
following districts: Quebec, Tliree Rivers, Sa-
guenay. Chicoutimi, Gaspe, Rimouski, Kano-
ouraska, Montmagny, Beauce and Artha-

;h The -it. Francis division, comprlslnK the
district of St. Francis.

27. Nine [should be ten] judges of the Su-
perior court reside in or near tlie city of Mont-
real, and exercise their ordinary judicial func-
tions in the Mnntieal division ; five of the said
judges reside in or rear the city of Quebec, and
exercise their ordinary judicial functions in the
tjuebec division; and one of the said judges
residing in or near the city of Sherbroolce, and
exercising nis ordinary judicial functions in
the St. Francis division.

THE CENTBAMBATION CRY.

Now Mr. Speaker, it will perhaps be
said: "That ia the commencement of
judicial centralization." I say no. I aay
that judicial centralization or decentrali-
zation does not result from the residence
or non-residence of the judge, and 1 will
explain later on what I mean by judicial
centralization. If we refer to section 7G
it will be seen that there is nothing in
the constitution of the Superior court to
lead to the belief that I wished for an
instant to centralize the administration
ot justice in the province of Quebec.
Section 38 of the bill reads as follows :

H8. There Hlmll be terms and sitllngB of the
Superior court and oi the judnes of thiH court,
as often hh the due despct^h of buslnosH and the
public convenience may reijulre, at the chef
lieu of each of the Judicial d'Htrlcts ot the prov-
iuce. at the dates and durInK the periods ap-
pointed by order of the Lleutenant-Qovernor-
In-counell.

The HlttlngR of ihe Superior court cannot
commence belore nine of the clock In the fore-
noon, nor end after six of the clock in the
afternoon.

Articles 21 and 22 of This net apply tnulatis
mutanilis to the Siiperfor court.

The terms and sHtin^rs of the Sujierlor court
and of the Judges of tlmt court shail be presid-
ed over by the chief Justice or by one of the
other juditeN of the court selected by the chief
Justice, and, In the division In which the chief
justice does not reside, by the Judge jierformlng
the duties of chief Justice therein. R.
8. 0.,c. 44,8. 94.

TliE TERMS OK THE (»IIRT.

So that, Mr. Speaker, the organization
of the Superior court is this: You have
sixteen judges of tha Superior court, ten
of whom reside in Montieal, live in Que-
bec and one in the district of St. Francis.
But all the cases which hitherto were
beard in the various chfj'^ liens, all the
cases which were argued in the various
cheis lievx, and which were decided there,
will be heard, argued and decided there
as they are at present. The terms
of the Superior court will be
fixed, rot by a rule of practice
on which the judges will agree
amongst themselves, as was the case
under the old law ; but they shall be
fixed by the Lieutenant-Governor-in-
council according to public requirements.
So that the judges will no longer sit for
a few days when they please, but they
will be compelled by a proclamation of
the Lieutenant • Governor - in - council
which will state that on such and such a
day they will be obliged to go and hear
the cases at the chrf lieu of each district.
There is a paragraph in section 38 which
may appear singular, it is the one
which says that the court cannot
commence before 9 in the morning
nor end after 6 in the afternoon
This paragraph was inserted
quest of several country
who said to me : " If
pel a judge who resides in
come and hear cases at a
lieu, he will hurry through

at the re-
advocates,
you com-
Quebec to
country chef
his cases as
fsst as possible bo, as to have done with
them and get back to Quebec as soon as
possible. He will Bit until midnight if

necessary to be able to get home by the
next train, and by that means we will
not be able to get that justice which we
have a rinhi to expect." The paragraph
in question says that the court cannot
commence to sit before nine in the fore-
noon nor end after six in the afternoon,
lu this manner the advocates are sure to
have time to argue their cases, the wit-
nesses will iiave all the time required to
give their evidence, and the cases will be
heard as justice requires thom to be
heard.

TllK (ill'-STUN OK Al'PEAL.

How, as to the judgments of the
Superior court, the Court of Review con-
^..tinues as it now exists. The Court of
Review is a court of review for Superior
court judgments. I was about to forget
toeaywhat I shoulc' have said at the
very beginning, and that is that the
Superior court, as it exists according to
the bill in question, is a Superior court
having jurisdiction in all cases in which
the amount exceeds $400. Thus, m all
cases for an amount over $400, the
Superior court, as it now exists, will have
jurisdiction, and as regards the judgments
of that court, the judges of the Superior
court so constituted, the Court of Review
will continue to exist as at present. As
everyone knows, according to the rules
of the Code of Procedure, one cannot go
into appeal if the judgment of the
Superior Court is confirmed by the Court
of Review. 1 have retained this pro-
vision in the bill, but suitors are free to
choose between the Court of Review and
the Court of Appeal, and the judgment of
the Superior court may be taken at once
into review or into apoeal. If the judg-
ment is reversed by the Court of Review,
tbe appeal still lies under the rule which
at present exists in the Code of Civil Pro-
cedure. So much for the Superior court.
To resume, and I specially call the atten-
tion of the members of this honorable
House to this point, there .s no judicial
centralization. Judicial centralization
would consist in the fact ol our having in
Quebec and Montreal, in the large cen-
tres, the hearing and trial of cases, and
compelling suitors to come to the large
centres. But under the bill as I submit
it, it is the judges who, as it were, gn to
the suitors. They go to the c/ir/s lieux aa
they do now and justice goes to the snit-
ors.'

'I'HK DISTRICT COIRTS.

T now mme to the District conrt, Hec-
tiona 4;'), 4f), 47, 48, 49, 'lO, 54 and 5() give
118 the uonHtitiitioii and jurisdiction of
tbe District court. It baa jurisdiction in
all cases where the amount of issue does
not exceed $400. Hitherto it was the Su-
perior coust which had jurisdiction in all
cases from $100 to $400, now in all cases
in which the amount does not exceed
$400, it is the District court wbicli has
Huch jurisdiction. Where does this court
sit and how is it composed? The Dis-
trict court, says section 45, has and exer-
cises the same jurisdiction, tunctions and
powers as the Circuit court had,
and in cases not exceeding;
$400, which were within the
jurisdiction of the Superior court, it has
tbe same jurisdiction,' functions and
powers as tbe Superior court to tbe ex-
clusion of tbe latter. The District court
consists of twenty-six judges, who are
distributed throughout the province as
follows : Seven of the District court
judges reside in or near the city of Mon-
treal ; three res'de in o»'near tlie city of
Quebec and, with tbe exception of tbe
district ot Saguenav which is served by
the judge of the dist \,t of Chicoutimi
and Sagnenay, each cA«//im has a rest-
dent district judge. Thus in every dis-
trict chef heu, as it now exists,
there will be a resident district
judge having jurisdiction to the
amount of $400 inclusively. Con-
sequently it may at once be seen that
if it could, by accident.be said that there
is judicial centralization in the constitu-
tion of the Superior court, there is decen-
tralization in the case of the District
coiart ; and I would add that there is
even greater decentralization than now
exists. If we refer to sections 54
and 56 of tbe bill, it will be seen
that, with the exception of the
counties of Hochelaga, Jacques Car-
tier, Laval, St. Maurice and Quebec,
tbe District court may be established not
only in each county chef lieu or county
seat, not only in each place where the
Circuit court now sits, because it is well
known that in some counties there is
more tbaji one Circuit court, but under
these sections of the bill in question the
District court may sit in more than one
place in tbe same county.

ORTKOT OF THE CHANOE.

What is the object of this provision?
At present you have extensive tracts ot
country which were not inhabited when
the act ol 1857 was passed. You have,
for instance, tbe vast region ot Lake St.
John. You have tbe great region to t'le
north of Montreal, and you have other
regions in the province where there are
no courts, where there is not even a Cir-
cuit court, and where witnesses and suit-
ors have to come at great expense to the
count-' rhff lU'U. Thus, Mr. Speaker, yon
have, for instance, in tbe district of Three
Rivers, the important county of Nicolet,
which is separated from the remainder
of tbe district of Three Rivers by the
River St. Ijawrence, and for many weeks
in the sprini! and autumn ttiese people
cannot cross over to Three Rivers to at-
tend to their law business. You have,
likewise, other regions in the county of
OttaVva which are similarly situated. I
am constantly requested to establish Cir-
cuit courts in these places, but with the
law as it now stands the Circuit court
cannot be established there, because not
more than one Circuit court can be estab,-
liahed in a county. Consequently I waa
right when I said that under my bill
there is more judicial decentralization
than there was under the old system.

WILL RKDICE C0ST9.

I now come to appeals from the Dis-
trict court. Complaints have been often
made that in our system of oriianization
of the law courts there are too many ap-
peals and too many degrees of appeal.
Thus, to give an example, at present a
case of $100 is taken out before the Su-
nerior court. This case goes into review.
Let us say that the judgment is reversed ;
the losing party can take tbe case into
appeal. Matters are such that in the
amallest case, in a case of $100, the costs,
when there are no witnesses, amount to
$()00, and may amount to $800, and all
tbia when ttie amtmnt at issue is only
$100. 1 say that we must protect the
suitors against themselves. The rate-
payers of the province of Quebec must be
protected aeainst the perhaps too strong-
ly developed desire which animates them
to ple&d and plead until their meana
are exhausted. That is why 1 pr/}-

pose to reduce the number of appeals
and the number of dejjrees of appeal.
Mow, there is another drawback arising
from the too great number of a])pealti. It.
is what has happened in Montreal, v^ here
the Court of Appeals is so encumbered
that if a case is inscribed to-day fir hear-
ing it cannot be heard for two years.
The result of this is that the dislione«t
Buitor is protected when he wishes to
plead and to carry the case into appeal.
It I am well informed cases are taken
into appeal — a number of cases are taken
before tne Court of Queen's Bencli—
merely to obtain delay, to avoid payinir
juBt debts which are due. The Court of
Appeals for the District court would hv>
the Court of Ueview, consisting of three
judges of the Superior court as at present.
These cases would therefore be taken into
appeal before the Court of Review, which
would be a court entirely distinct from
and independent of the District court.

A WEAKNESS OK TUK .ri'DOES

At present it is often said — I do not
say rightly said — but the impression is
rather general, that the Court of Review
ib inore a court of confirmation than of
revision ; that is to say, that, owing to
I know not what chain of circumstances,
the judges of the Court of Review are
much more led to confirm the judgments
of their colleaaues than to reverse or
modify them. Now, when an appeal is
taken from the judgment of a District
court judue to the Court of Review, there
will no longer be amongst the members
of the various courts that fraternity, it 1
may so express myself, which exists
between those wlio compose the
same court. There will perhaps
not be more independence but,
at least, there will perhaps, be a little
more independent action when judg-
ments rendered by District court jndgea
have to be reversed or modified. It is
true that the Court of Appeal so consti-
tuted by the bill consists of only three
judges. But let us see what happens in
the province of Ontario, which is often
quoted as a model province and which,
in many respects, is admirably managed
in all public and judicial matters. In
Ontario the Court of Appeals for cases in
which the largest amount is at issue con-
sists of only four members, and I say that,
for cases of $400 or leas, a Court of Appeals

consisting of three judges constituting an
independent tribunal in snilicieni.

AN Al'l'KAL IKOM UEVIEW.

When the judgment of the Court of-
Review .yittin;,' in appeal from a judg-
ment of a District court is not unaiiimous,
an appeal may betaken from the Court
of Review to ttie Court of Quee'i's Bench.
[ admit tiiut I liad some hesitation in
introducing this amendment. I am not
yet de(;ide(l to state — I am not yet suf-
tic.iently convinced t > be able to say — that
this IS a wise provision, because I am of
the opinion of many authors who have
writ on on tiiis subject, and who say that
the number of appeals and the number
ot the deiirees of appeal should be re-
duced. But that IS a question on
which there may be a ditterence
of opinion, a ciuestion on which somethiug
may be said both for and against ; it is a
question wliicti I submit for the serious
consideration ot those who will have to
study the l>ill. I say that, not only in
virtue of tiie bill which I have ju.st ex-
plained will the appeals from the District
court render a service to suitors, but the
law will have ttie effect of greatly re-
ducing the number of appeals now taken
before the Court of Queen's Ben(;h, and
will give greater ethciency to the Court of
Queen's Bench, and will allow it to better
fill the role which it is called upon
to till in the judicial organization of
this province.

DISTUK'I' .lUnOES IN CRIMINAL MATTERS.

Now there is, in the constitution of the
District court, another very important
matter to which I specially call the at-
tention of the members of this House.
Accarding to section 47 of the bill tlie
District judges have jurisdiction through-
out the whole province ot tiuebec, but
exercise their ordinary judicial functions
in the districts assigned to them by their
commissions; and they hirther have all
the powers and exercise all the functions
mentioned in articles 2485 to 2544
inclusivelv of the Revised Sta-
tutes of the province of Quebec.
If you refer to section 107 you will see
this : " As district judges are appointed
in the different districts.the judges of the
sessions of the peace, district maeist-
rates and stipendarv magistrates shall

■.\

titutiiif; an
im.

Court of-
m a JiuIk-

tmiilUJMUH,

the Court
I'a Bench,
sittttion in
I am not
3t yet 8uf-
say— that
le I am of
who have
3 say that
B number
lid be re-
stion on
Jifierenoe
oniethiuff
)t ; it 18 a
e seriouH
have to
; only in
ju8t ex-
3 iJistriot
, but the
ally re-
)w taken
nch, and
Court of
to better
upon
ation of

iTTERS.

»n of the
iportant
the at-
House.
bill the
hrough-
sec, but
inctions
)y their
lave all
inctions
•o 2544
Sta-
^uebeo.
'ill see
pointed
i of the
maeist-
shall

cease to exercise their functions." That
is to aay, sir, that I i^ivQ the district
judges all the powers ot district mairist-
rates in criminal matters and all the
powers of judijea of ttie sessions of the
peace in (Juebee and Montre. ,1. A con-
siderable economy will lesult from this.
At pcesttnt the expenses ot the province
lor district majiistrate.", travelling expen-
ses, etc., for the salaries of judges
of the sessions of the peace amoMnt to
$oO,000. But what happens? Every
day I receive petitions and letters askint;
me to establish inauistrates' cou 'ta, ask-
ing me even to appoint other m ixistrates
for regions distant from the cIkJ' lieu, like
those I mentioned just now, and I have
no liesitation in saying that if the pre-
sent system continues, in threti or four
years we will beohliued to appoint other
diL.rict maitistrates, and to give them fur-
ther powers, to meet tiie ever increasing
wants of the public; and the expendi-
ture under this head will amount to $.")0,-
OdO per annum, at least, and will go on
increasing. There is also another con-
sideration, and that is that the present
salary of the district magistrates is not
sufhcient.

Ill- PAID SKRVA.VITS.

The salary of these magistrates who,
after all, are called upon to exercise im-
portant judicial functions in criminal
matters, is not sufficient. It is only
$1,200, and this has been so understood
that for seven or eiuht years it has been
necessary to indirectly increase the
salary of the District Magistrates by giv-
ing them travelling expenses of from ten
to live dollars a day, which greatly in-
creases the expense of the administration
of justice. 1 do not say that it was wrong
to do so. I believe, on the contrary, that
it is impossible to get a competent man
to perform judicial duties of such import-
ance for the small salary of $1,200 per
annum. We will therefore be assuredly
compelled to increase ttie salary of
these magistrates if they are to continue
to exist, or we will be obliged to replace
them by other magistrates or other
judges and I think the plan I propose is
the best. Now, if this expenditure is to
be $50,000 per annum, as it will soon be,
1 ask myself why the province of Quebec
should pay the expenditure in question.
We complain so mncu of the expense we

incur. We clamor so much for economy.
We endeavor by every means to reduce
our expenditure. Now, here is a favor-
able opportunity ot reducing the expense
of the administration of justice by $50,-
000; because, as everyone knows, sections
•Jli and 100 of the Britiah North America
act say that it is ttie Federal parliament
which appoints the judges and paya their
salary. 1 therefore ask myself why. in
view of that provision of the British
North America act, the province of Que-
bec should be obliged t(j pay $50,000 for
the administration ot criminal ju'itice.
Thus, those who are in favor of economy
cannot but say that, in this respect at
least, the bill is a good one. ( Hear, hear.)

PUTTING THE MEARI'RE INTO FORCE.

Now we have to consider how the bill
is to be put into etfect. In 1857, when
the great statesman whom everyone ad-
mires, Sir George Etienne Cartier, intro-
duced iiis measure for the reonranization
of the lav, courts, it was comparatively
easy to put the reform into practice. At
that time the question was to appoint
new judkjes, and, as everyone is aware,
candidates tor judgeships were not want-
ing any more in 1857 tnan they are now.
Consequently, it was rather easy to ap-
point new judges. At the present time
the question is to reduce the number of
Superior court judges from 30 to Ifi. II
we wish to put the law into execution we
would have to decapitate 14 of those gen-
lemen. Now, it is quite sure that they
will not submit to decapitation without
making considerable rt.nstance. It
is for that reason that one of
the provisions of the bill, sec. 112, says
that the act shall come into force by
proclamation ot the Lieutenant-Governor-
in-council. As soon as the proclamatio.i
is issued, this is what will happen: In
the districts of Montreal, (Quebec and
Sherbrooke, as well as in the district of
Terrebonne, whose judge will be trans-
ferred to Montreal, and in one of the dis-
tricto near Quebec, whose judge will be
transferred to Quebec, the law will come
into force at once. District judges will
have to be appointed at Quebec and
Montreal, who will at once commence to
perform their judicial duties. The dis-
trict judges at Montreal and ttie dis rict
jud^e at Quebec will replace the judges
of the SessionB as the Peace and exercise

■"'

the same fanctioni of tbe Judaea of the
Circuit court exercise.! at Montreal and
at (.iuehec, which functions arn, by
tbe bil), HsaiKned to tbe district
jiidKes. as well as in tbe district
of Terrebonne, and in one of tiie diptrictH
of tbe Quebec division, wliose jud^e nh ill
be transferred to ttie city of Quebec;. Tiie
'lumber ot jiidxes in Montreal will be
considerable fur some time ; but it must
not be imai^iued tiiat it will take loii<j;
for the law to come into force every-
where. Every one knows that, from or-
dinary causes, judges, like others, dis-
appeai pretty rapidly. Thus, the other
day, a judge baid to me: " I was ap-
po.nted judge seven years aifc, and al-
ready the majority of the judges are my
juniors." As only twelve judges will re-
main, the law will come into force pretty
soon. Mow, while the ten judk^es of the
Superior court sit in Montreal they will
not be obliged to go on circuit in many
districts, and this will, in (Consequence of
tbe increabed number of judges, remove
the congestion which now exists in the
Enquete and Merits court in Montreal,
whereconsiderable delay occurs at preser't

THE COritT OF (U'EKN's BENCH,

In virtue of the bill which I will intro-
duce, the (Jourt of Queen's Bench may
sit with the assistance of some of ttie
judges ad hoc or as assistant judges. As
this court may sit in two different places,
this will remove tbe congestion which ex-
ists in the Court of Queen's Bench, be -
cause if the Court of Queen's Bench were
to sit at Montreal for two years it would
barely be able to get rid of all the cases
now inscribed before that court. Now.
when in each districi a vacancy occurs
in the bench of the Superior
court, such vacancy shall not be
filled up, but the district shall at
once come under the operation of the law
which appoints district judees. Thus let
us take, for instance, thedistrictof Mont-
magny. Let us suppose that the judge
in the district of Montmagny, for one
reason or another, ceases to exercise his
functions there, either because he is re-
moved by death or is promoted to a
higher position. Immediately, under the
law, tbe federal Government will be ob-
liged lo appoint a district judge for Mont-
magny, and the Superior court of Mont-
magny si all be served by one of the

judges of the Superior court residing in
(Quebec. Meanwhile, ai soon as tiie pro-
clamation is issued, the principle of the
law comes Into force evervwtiere ttirough-
out the province, so that tfie jn'ites
of the Superior court now v 'st-
ing and exercising their functions
in each district shall continue
to exercise their functions as judges of
ihe Superior court for cases of $400 over,
and ttie district judges shall have juris-
diction for all cases under $40(», except as
regards the functions of distri(;t magis-
trates, which shall remain the same
until district judges are appointed.

Mr. Stephens — Why not give District
court judges the jurisdiction of Superior
court judges .'

Hon. Mr. Casj'rain— My honorable
friend asks me why I do not make of the
c.strict judge a Superior court judge
with all ° the jurisdiction re(|uired to an
amount of, let us say, $100,000 ,()()(). But,
Mr. Speaker, the principle of the bill is
just the opposite. If the idea ot my hon-
orable friend were to prevail the law
would have to be left as it now stands.

Mr. Stephens — Then you make two
judges instead ot one.

Hon. Mr. Casgrain— No. not at all ; not
for the same object. That is to say, that
there will be in each district a district
judee who will judae cases up to $400.
out there will he sixteen Superior court
judges who will judkte the cases of over
$400, and these judges will be obliged to
go on circuit, as it is called, that is to say,
go to the cliff lie^l ot each district for the
trial and hearing of cases and rendering
judgment therein.

MAJORITY OF CASES UNDEP. $400.

I would observe, in passing, that cases
for over $400 do not represent one-fifth of
the work of the judges, while cases of
$400 and under represent four-tifths ot
the work. I give tour-fifths of the work
to thw district judges, whose number is
greater ; on the other hand for cases over
$400, which represent only one-fifth of
the work, there are sixteen Superior court
judges. Otherwise wh would be obliged,
if we followed the idea of the
honorable member, to appoint a
Superior court jndge in each district.
Now, in some districts there is not work
for more than two months in the year,
while m other districts there is work for

the whol
on the Of
for cHMes
while, on
must be
over, a (
shall be
(iourt.

I'UO'

But I
provituon
isdictioii
moment
and dece
cases un(
ent were
Hen of th€
be in futu
as it a(;tu
ed to me
daily bef
tory exce
ness in cl
summar)
ing to do
the most
prerogati
and lesse
in ary pr
neverthel
accuse m
question >
clare in s
ters that
are enum
trict judy
appeal
(juestion
more the
of Proced
what a d
this act \
ing tbe (
A voic«
district j
and will
Hon. J
before tt
view anc
; now com
ingtoth
the Code

I have
general
changes

residing in
as tLie pro-
liple of the
re throiij?h-
Stie jii'tkes
ow V -st-
functioDS
oontinne
ijU'lKes of
r $400 over,
fiave juris-
, except as
ri(;t iiiagis-
the same
ited.

e District
f Superior

honorable
ake of the
>nrt judge
lired to an
,(»()(). But,
the bill is
t my hon-
1 the law
'' stands,
malie two

at all ; not
say, that
a district
p to $400,
srior court
es of over
obliged to
t is to say,
ct for the
renderingr

;400.

A\a,t cases
ae-filth of
I cases of
•fifths of
the work
umber is
3a8es over
e- fifth of
»rior court

obliged.

of the
point a

district,
not work
the year,
work for

the whole year and more. This is why,
on the one hand, the number ot judges
for canes under $400 must be increased,
while, on the other hand, a sne(rial court
must be established for caHes of $400 and
over, a court which, sitting in review,
shall be a court ot appeals f jr the District
(fourt.

I'KOVISIO.N you SlMMAItY MATTKRH.

But I was forgetting a very important
provitMon of the l^w referring to the jur-
isdiction of district courts. I spoke a
moment ago of judicial centralization
and decentrali/.ation, and I said ttiat all
cases under $400, whicii, up to tlie pres-
ent were pleaded and judged at the rlnf
//<;« of the district, would so continue to
be i.nfuture.Butttie answer may be made,
as it actually was in a memorial addres.s-
«d to me: '• There are cases which come
daily before the courts, motions, peremp-
tory exceptions, defenses en droit, busi-
ness in chambers, writs of prerouatives,
summary affairs, etc. What are you go-
ing to do about them ?" 1 admit that in
tlie mo.st of the rural districts, writs of
prerogatives, (luestions between lessors
and lessees, actions unde" the law of .sum-
mary procedure are pretty rare ; but
nevertheless, in order tliat nobody may
accuse me ot at all encroaching upon this
question of judicial ceutrahzation, I <le-
clare in section 48 tfiat in all these mat-
ters that I liave mentioned, and which
are enumerated in this section the dis-
trict judge h^s jurisdiction, subject to
appeal to the Superior court. This
(jiiestion is rather one of procfldure, and
more the subject of an article of the Code
of Procedure. It may therefore be seen
what a disadvantage it would be to pass
this act without at tnesame time adopt-
ing the Code of Procedure.

A voice — Insumaiary affairs will the
district judge have absolute jurisdiction,
and will there be an appeal ? '

Hon. Mr. Oasurain-^The appeal will be
before the Superior court sitting in re-
view and before the Court oi Appeal as
now constituted, or before botti, accord-
ing to the rales which at present exist in
the Code of Procedure.

CHANGES SINCE LAST YRAR.

I have indicated so far, in making the
general expose of the bill, the principal
changes which are proposed in the mea-

sure that I have to present. But to en-
able the House to better understand and
more fully seize tiie difference between
ttie meHHure originally submitted, and
that which I will have the tionor lo lay
before tne House, and in order to 8hr>w
ttie (;are that I have taken to listen to the
complaints aiid representations that have
been made to me, I believe ttiat
it will be wfll to give in a succinct and
detinue manner the changes which exist
between tlie oriifinai bill and that now
submitted. There is first and foremost
in the present bill, a»4 1 have already de-
clared, a ctmiplete elimination ot every-
thing regarding tlie administration of
criminal justice. In last vear's bill, at
the siiirgestion of parties who were well
informed, and wlio had at heart the per-
fect adm iration of justice, the pro-
vince ha( oeen divided into six dis-
tri ;ts for the purpose of the ad-
ministration of criminal justice. But
the remark has been made to me
that It would not be just to bring
witnesses from a distance lo a c.'^oflieu
for a criminal case, on account ot the cost
and ttie inconveiiience, and that neither
would it be just to drait a criminal from a
distance to a chef lieu in another coun-
ty, there to stand his trial, where he
might not perhaps be judged dv his
peers. 1 understood the justice of this
observation, and that the bill in this res-
pect M'as erroneous, and this year 1 liave
left the administration of criminal justice
exactly as it was under the old law. That
is the hrst change contained in the new
bill and a very considerable one it ie.

.lUDGES AND TERMS OP THE COURTS.

Now the complaint was also made that
according to the bill of last year the
terms of the court were fixed, not by
proclamation of the Lieutenant-Governor-
in-council, as proposed by the present
bill, but by a rule of practice made by
the judges themselves. It was said, with
some r'^ason, that the judges, not always
consulting the public needs, might fix
the terms to suit their own convenience
rather than that of litigant''. This objec-
tion is aotrong one, and in this year's bill
it is provided that tne terms of all the
courts will be fixed by proclamation of
the Lieutenant-Governor-in-council. It
was also said in last year's bill
that tbo district judges would be ap-

pointed from amongst the lawyers of not
leas than live years' practice. It was
thought by Botiiethat tliis was not a miffi-
cient iiuuraiitee ot tlie (]ualilicatii)n8 of
men cliarged witu important judicial
functions, and it is now provided that ten
years ot practice must beoiieof the (|uali-
tications required of those lawyers who
art to be named judges of the District
courts. Another notable change , nd one
wliicli rtlaies narticnlarly to pn^edure,
is that which I expUtmed a moment atro,
namely, tuat the Di '"ict court judge has
all the powers of a S.Lperior court judge
in chambers ; that it is to say that tie
may decide all questions between lessors
and lessees, all those under the act of
summary procedure, wi Us ot prerogative,
in a word all the (mestions that I had ^lie
hon<ir of mentioning to the House a
moment ago.

JJISTRICr OF ST. KRANtlS.

There will be sixteen judges of the Su-
perior court instead of fifteen. There
will be ten at Montreal, five at Quebec
and one at Sherbrooke. It was con-
sidered that the district ot St. Francis
was of such importance, and that so
much business was transa(!ted there, that
it was necessary to leave a judge there.
And besides, Mr. Speaker, the bill pro-
vides that when there is too much work
for a judge in any district, another judge
by proclamation or the Lieutenant-
Governor-in-council may be sent by the
Chief Justice to sit there. The number
of District court judges for the city of
Montreal is also increased. Another im-
portant change that 1 have already point-
ed out to the House is this:
That in virtue of article \i)r>4
of the Code of Civil Procedure as amend-
ed by section 75 of the present
bill, the District court, in whatever
locality it sits, hns jurisdiction up to the
sum of $400. Last year wesaid that out-
side ot the chef lieu the court would only
have jurisdiction to the amount ot $100.
This year we increase it to $400 wher-
ever it sits, even thouith it mayNae in two
different localities in the same county, in
order to give courts to tlie regions of
which I spoke a moment ago, where
they may bring their judicial atl'airs
with the economy which they have a
right to expect. There is, further, an ap-
peal from the judgments of the District

court, i-ast year we said that the judg-
ment of the Court of Review would be
final and without appeal, when pro-
nounced upon an appeal from a judg-
ment of the District court ; but now.
whe- the judiiment of the Court of Re-
view* is not unanimous, the appellant
may go to the court of Queen's Bench. 1
have already pointed out this change.

CITV AN!) Iii:RAL .lUJXiKS.

And, finally, the last change in the bill
has been made at tLe sunnestion of the
Bar ot Quehe(t, and also of ttiat of certain
lawyers and judges who have written me
on the subject. I^ast year, in the case
of the death of one of the Que-
bec or Montreal judges, or of his disap-
pearance for any cause, he was neces-
sarily replaced by one of the country
judires — a judtje from the rural districts.
That IS to say that if, for instance, a
judge died at (.Quebec, a judge was taken
from one ot the districts ot the Quebec
division and brought in the city.
It has been represented to me that
for the reason that will be under-
stood by those who are familiar with the
administration of justice in this province,
it was not altogether just that the Fed-
eral Government should be forced to
name certain gentlemen judges in the
Cities. 1 have faili;.i I'l with this sugges-
tion, and now, when th«. judges of Que-
bec or of Montreal will disappear, the
Federal Government may name the one
that they may deem proper to fill the
gap. Besides, Mr. Speake»-, in thinking
of It a little, 1 am not sure that I am
able, under the constitution that governs
us, to impose upon the Federal Govern-
ment the obligation of naming such or
such judge to such or such locality. ; ...

OBiECi'iONS TO Tiui: niLi.. "■ 'i

I now come to tlie most interesting
portion — if I may say that there is an
interesting part — of my speech. It is
that which concerns the objections made
to the bill. These objections were natur-
ally based on tlie bill which was present-
ed to the House last session, which was
that which was given publicity to. It
could not be otherwise. People could
only criticize what they had be-
fore them. The objections made were
of two kinds. There was a general

iiieaiorials sent
that all the
made upon it

objection to the principle of the bill, and
there were objections to certain details.
1 will say, without, 1 believe, flaHerin^
myself too much, that I have replied to
all the objections of details that are made
to the hili. 1 will go even further and
say that J have incorporated in the bill
all the sujigestions contained in the
memorials which have been sent rae by
the difl'erent soctions of the Bar opposed
to the measure. The bill has been
corrected ; it has been amended upon
the strength of the
me, and I believe
remarks ttiat have beei
have been taken into consideration. Now,
the vireat (juestion, that upon which op-
ponents ofthe measure have fallen back
in order to tight the bill, — the question
above all upon which the opposition is
made, is this : — They say that judical de-
centralization was established in 1857,
and that this decentralization ought to
continue ; that my bill destroys it ; that
it strikes a blow at the principle of de-
centralization, that it overthrows the
tribunals of the country and unites in the
large cities the diti'erent judicial juris-
dictions, and that in conse-
(juence the measure is not acceptable to
the litigants of the province, and
alcove all to those of them who live in the
rural districts. 1 believe that after the
explanation that I have made of the
general plan of the bill, nobddv will any
longer be of the opinion that I am strik-
ing a blow at the principie of judicial de-
centralization. 1 have proved that the
Superior court will sit. according to the
bill in question, in each chef lieu of dis-
trict where it now sits, and I draw the
attention of the membc-s to this fact.
Finally, I say this : Judicial decentral-
ization does not consist in the residence or
non-residence of the judges. Decentrali-
zation does not consist in the fact that
you send a judge to reside in each dis-
trict. The system may possess some ad-
vantages, but, Mr. Speaker, iudi(;ial de-
centralization consists in the fact that the
judge goes, so to speak, to the home of
the pleader, visits his tiome, to hear there
his complaints and the claims that lie
has to prefer.

DECENTBAHZATXON CONSISTS IN niSSEMINA-

TIN(i

as much as possible, in all parts of the
province, the administration of justice.

Decentralization consists in tha hearing
of cases in the chef lieu of the dis-
trict of the litigant, in the chef
lieu of his county, in the par-
ish ill which he resides, even if
that is possible. This is what should be
understood by judicial decentralizaiion.
JSow, it is not because I say in the hill
that the sixteen judges of the Superior
court shall reside in ttie city of Montreal,
or of Quebec or of Sherhrooke, tfiat I in-
terfere with the principle of judicial de-
centralization. iN'o. because 1 respect the
principle of the bill of IS")?, in virtue of
which it is said tiiat the judges must
hear cases, fiear witnesses, hear tfie
pleadings and render judgment in the
chef lieu of each district. 1 go
further. Not only will we nave a
Superior court in each chef lieu
of a district or county, l)ut
in large counties like Ottawa, Terrebonne,
Nicolet and Rimouski we will have dis-
trict courts which will have jurisdiction
up to the sum of $400. And i ask those
who are in favor of ju<licial decentraliza-
tion to aid me in pronouncing in favnr of
tiie bill, if they are really in favor of the
dissemination of the administration of
justice in all parts of the province that
have a right to it. There are interesting
tigures to be given on this question of
judicial decentralization and of the
residence of the judges. There are to-
day thirty judge*, of the Superior court
in the province of Quebec. The residence
of ten of these judges is fixed at Montreal,
as everybody knows, and the residence
of four others is fixed at Quebec. There
remain then sixteen judges for the
eighteen other districts. Now the follow-
ing districts have no resident judges,
namely, 'I'errebonne, Joliette, Beauce.
Montmagny, Himouski, Saguenay and
Richelieu, in all seven. There are then
seven districts whicti have no resident
judge at all, and there are only eleven
districts that have resident judges, and
again, of these eleven, my friend. Mr.
Globensky, who has written such inter-
ei^fing letters on the question, says that
five of these judges sit almost continu-
ouslv in Mortreal. There only remain,
then, under the operation of the actual
law, six judj'es who reside actually and
effectively in their respective districts.

CASKS IN I'OINT.

Thus, then, Mr. Speaker, in requirinK
these jiidnes oi the ynperior court to re-
side at (Quebec, at Montreal and at Sher-
brooke, i do not destroy what is to-day
existinj; and i do not lay a sacrilejiious
hand upon the principle of judicial de-
centralization, because it people are satis-
fied with the present system — only six
judges residiny; eJl'ecti"ely in their dis-
tricts — and consei|uently it people do not
complain of it, it is a sijin that Judicial
decentralization does n.t essentially con-
sist in the residence of the judges at the
<:licf l.im of their districts.

Mr. Tellier— In Joliette and in Riche-
lieu, as a matter of fact, the jud^e does
not remain in the district, though the
law obliges him to reside there.

Hon. Mr. Casgrain—l am glad to hear
the remark of my learned friend from
Joliette, but 1 will ask him if he is able
to imagine a law whicli will force the
judae to reside eU'ectively m a district.
Can he imagine a law witii which the
judge will comply ? It is well known that
in the case of ceitain judges — I do not
speak of ttiese existing to-day, I speak of
those who have disappeared from the
scene — an attempt was made to com-
pel them to remain in their district.
Weil, what happened? They rented a
house in the district in which they should
reside and put their name on the door,
but they lived for the greater part of the
year either at t^uebec or Montreal. The
law, as it at present stands, obliges the
judge to reside in his district ; but ever
since it has been in our statutes it has
been a dead letter and incapable of being
applied in practice. Those who preceded
lis have tried to apply this law. but they
never Succeeded, and 1 don't think that
any one ever will succeed in doing so, be-
cause it is one of ttiose laws which, al-
though they may be written in the sta-
tutes, no one can ever expect to see ob-
served.

A voice—" Then it will only amount to
the same thing."

WILL GIVK RURAL LAWVKK8 A niANCE.

Hon. Mr. Capgrain— It will not amount
tothe samething with my law, and forthis
reason: That the judges of the Superior
co\irt in rural districts tell us to-day : —
" We have not much work in our dis-

tricts, while there is much work in Mont-
real, and, besides, we usually come from
the great cities, from Montreal or
from Quebec." As a matter of
fact, it IS true that for one reason
or another the judges of the
Superior court tiave been chosen
from Montreal and (Quebec. But I take
this ground. Judges of the District court
receiving a salary of $3,000. being named
specially for rural districts, and being
chosen generallv from among the mem-
bers of the Bar of rural districts, would
have every interest in remaining in their
districts, because their salaries would not
be large enough to allow them to live at
Quebec or Montreal, and in addition to
this their tastes and their habits will
cause them to live In the centre to
which they have been appointed.
There will no longer exist the pretext
which to-day permits those who do not
wish to remain in their districts to go to
sit at Montreal or at Quebec. The pre-
text that the Superior courts are encum-
bered will vanisf), because I pretend th-
after the adjption of this bill there will
no longer be any encumbrance either at
Quebec or at Montreal, neither before the
Superior court nor before the Court of
Appeals, and thus there will be no
lontjer this pretext for country judges
to go. 1o Quebec or Montreal lo sit. 1
know \ hat to-day it is Eot only a pretext
but a weinhty reason and one cannot
attack these judges because five or six of
them sit at Montreal when they should
reside in their district. They are called
there by the Chief Justice and they are
almost obliged to jjo, they must go for the
despatch of business. This reason, then,
will no longer exist. You will have in
each district what you cannot have at
present, that is to say a resident judge
who will judgeallcasesbrought before him

COMPLAINTS A(iAINS'r THE PRESENT SYSTKM.

It is also said, Mr. Spepker. that there
is no complaint against the present sys-
tem, that no one complains of it and that
no one asks a change in it. I have heard
this reasoning used by men who were
certainly capable of criticizing the bill,
who by their legal knowledge could study
it with advartage. and who by thesugges-
tions they made might improve it : but 1
must say that-. I cannot understand how
this assertion couki be made. Since I

have beJ
liiive al|
tlie adm|
sent can
of Monti
said tl
however!
in 18f
the wai
iiaving
always
been anil
upon la\
statutes
plained
plaints,
real whi(
and wh
iif the
complain
the adn
said that
of Civil
fault of
not have
are excel
Quebec,
are not
example,
nay that
what mei
if you la
where, y(
than th
Montreal
judges
they mi
personall
what is
profess tl
of Montn
anyone r
do more
Montreal
are alw£
bills we 1
ed bv th

liave been in the House, since 1880, I
liave always heard complaints against
t tie administration of justice as at pre-
sent carried on, especially in the district
of Montreal. 1 have always heard it
said that the piesent system,
liowever well it innjht have served
in 1857, did not now meet
tlie wants oi the people or of those
having business before the courts. 1 have
always heard tliis said. The law has
been amended almost every session. Law
upon law has been introduced into the
statutes to improve the position com-
piamed of. To-dav there are still com-
plaints. There are newspapers in Mont-
real which are not favorable to the bill,
and which said at ttie beginning
of the session that there were
complaints and serious ones against
the administration of justice. Some
said that it was the fault of the Code
of Civil Procedure ; others that it was the
fault of the judges. They may or may
not have been right, but I say that there
are excellent judges at Montreal and at
(Quebec. There are perhaps some who
are not what they should be. Take, for
example, the ten judges o; Montreal. 1
say that they are a good average and
wliat men in general are, and I sav that
if you take ten men, 1 don't care from
where, you will not find a better average
than that of the ten judges of
Montreal. I believe that certain
judges do not do all the work
they might do. I do not Know this
personally, myself, 1 am only repeating
what is usually said. Nevertheless, 1
profess the ureatest respect for the judges
of Montreal, and I believe that whatever
anyone may say no ten other men would
do more work than the ten judges of
Montreal. The judges are men. and men
are always meu whatever may be the
bills we may introduce and have adopt-
ed by this House.

MONTREAL'S JNTKRKST.

As to the Civil Procedure, the bill, as 1
have said, is already distributed. We
will try to remedy, as far as possible, the
abuses which actually exist. But with
the beet code of <ivil procedure in the
world you could not inse the disap-
itearance of the trouble that exists
at Montreal, namely, the obstruc-
tion of the courts. There are

not enough judges at Montreal,
while in other parts of the province there
are far too many. Now some one may
say: " You have no right to legislate only
for the city of Montreal. Yuu must not
take into consideration only the wants of
the great metiopolis^of Canada, whatever
its importance." To a certain point I
differ from tho?e who think thus. I do
not mean to say that the leijislation of
this country should be subordinated to
the interests of Montreal, but 1 do say
that Montreal, from a financial stand-
point, from a commercial standpoint, from
the point of view of the population
and from the point of view of the judicial
business of the country has a right to all
the solicitude of the Le. islature. Now,
sir, above all. from the point of view of
the administration of justice, I say that
we are obliged, if not to subordinate the
administration ot justice of all the pro-
vince to that of the city of Montreal, at
least to give to the city of Montreal tne
part which she deserves by the import-
ant position which she occupies in judi-
cial annals. I will give the House some
figures which will show to what a degree
our soIicitiK'e for the city of Montreal in
this important affair should actuate us.

WHKUE l.EHAl. liDSINlCSS CENTRES.

Here are statistics for the past ten
years made, not by persons under the
control of the Government, but by ofiicers
who are absolutely free to do their duty,
and who are obliged to do it. During the
last ten years there were issued from the
Superior court for the whole of the prov-
ince ot Quebec 52,881 writs. Thus in all
the province of Quebec there were issued
from the Superior court 52.331 writs.
Now how many do you think out of this
number were issued from the Superior
court of Montreal? I was surprised
and astonished at the number
of writs issued from the Su-
perior court of Montreal, and this
inclines me more than ever to say that
I should come to the aid of the city
which sutlers the most from the existing
state of affairs. The numbor of writs is-
sued from the Superior court of Montreal
was 29,2()0. That is to say, that more
than half the writs of all the province of
Quebec were issued from the Superior
court of Montreal. Now. let us take the
judgments in contested cases. Tho Su*

perior court .iu(1«;ment8 in contested cases
for the province of (Quebec amount to lii-
220. Now for tbe city ot Montreal
alone, in the di8tri(!t of Mntitreal, out of
this total number of 1(1,220 judjrments
there are 7'70S. That is to say, aaain,
the half of the judgments rendered in the
province of Quebei; in contested cases.
Now it is easily seen that if in certain
districts the judees have hardly one, two
or three nmnths' work to do a year, the
julaes of Montreal district are so over-
crowded with work that they cannot do
it, all and are obliyed to call to their as-
tiistatire the judges of '-he surrounding
country districts anrl even to call the
judges of coinitry districts lower down in
the nverthan Quebec, and theobstrnction
issuch in theCourtof Appeals at Montreal,
that, as I said a moment ago, if you
to day inscribe a caee at the (Jourt of
Appeals at Montreal you would be ob-
lit;ed to wait two years before beinir able
to plead it. I say that this state of tbintiS
cannot continue to exist. If you inscribe
a case at Eiuiuetes ^t Merites at Mont-
real to-day,— b.v this procedure which
ought to give you judgment as quickly
as possible — you are obliged, if our infur-
mation is corre<'t, to w ait nine months
before yon can have your case heard.

IMI'UOVICMI'N'T DEMAXDEU.

I ask you. can we tolerate such a sys-
tem in this advanced aee ? la this the
despatch which litigation pui.st expect in
our province of (Quebec ? I ask myself if
we are not much more behind the times
tlian k11 the countries surrounding us,
and the European countries too on this
question ? I say that these abuses and
this obstruction which exist in Montreal
cannot continue, and, as long as I am
Attorney-General, in view of the import-
ance of tho city of Montreal, I will worn
with all my might to make our
judicial system the equal of others,
the equal of the system of the surround-
ing countries. Now, sir, I declare that tor
twenty years there have been complaints
of the system which at present exitsts in
this province, anr". iiot only in Montreal
but all oyer the province I repeat that at
least in a dozen districts there are judges
who have not more than three months'
work a year, while in the districts of
Montreal, Quebec and Sherbrooke, the
judges have more to do than they can ac-

complish. This is still another thin<,
which mupt not continue to exist. Th.\
inecjuality in the distrihution ot work ih
an anomaiv which whoever is solicitous
for the best administration of justice
in this country cannot permit to continue

PAST KICI'HKSKNTATlONS l\ I-OINT.

In 1880 Judge I'agnuelo, who was not
then a judge, who, consequently, had not
then ttie interest in the matter that
miglit be attributed to him to-day, in
• oinmon with th9 other judges, wrote in
letters which have remained famous,
that for ten vears past the existing sys-
tem had been complained of, and he pro-
posed another system, he proposed a re
form in the juuicial adminifjt''- -•> of the
country. T«.en in 1880, th» .ad al-

ready existed for ten yea.n and he de-
manded a remedy. In 1880 ttie Bar of
Montreal it.self ^mssed a resolution ask-
ing the two (Jovernments, those of Ot-
tawa and (Quebec, to modify tne present
system, because itdiinot give satisfac-
tion. A committee w. formed to meet
the memher.s of the' local and Federal
Governments, but fo, sor e reason
or other, the Governments did not agree,
aud the prop'sition fell to the
ground. In 1882 Mr. Larue, whom we all
knew, wrote some letters in the same
sense. In 188S a commission consisting
of Mr. Justice Jette and Messrs. Lorrain
and Weir said what follows in their re-
port to the Prime Minister and the
Attorney-General, and I would draw the
special attention of the honorable mem-
bers to this report, which is very well
drawn up. It will be seen at the 22nd
page of this report tliat the commissioners
insist on judicial reorganization, and I
quote it in reply to those who said
that no complaints had been made and
that no reform had been demanded, and
for the benefit of those who say that all
is running smoothly and that no one is
complaining of the existing system, I
quote it in order to prevent my passing
as an innovator who wishes to reform
everything, for t he pleasuro of reforming,
and in order to prove that 1 am sustain-
ed by authorities, 'vho are authorities
both for myself and for the House.

WHAT A COMMISSION POl'N'I).

This is what the report of Hon.

iidge
\ eir us

■• It will
i/iillou 111
coiiiraryl
cNcelleiitl

il It Inf

II exlstl
oitUiadoif

" OooctI
coiinclllol
" ilepundJ
siaulzaticf

'• WilliT
lerent.
pcrlei'lioJ

•• The pi
gunizallDL
J 1181 Ice ar
Hiiiounl <
ilitious, II
iiir all CDi

"This
rank ol

iidge Jfctte and Messrs.
V eir eays at page 22 : —

Lorrain and

" It will be said, perhaps, thatjudlclal orgiin-
i/aliou haK u<i (;r)unectijD with procedure. The
cDiiirHry isthecaiso. Eveu if the |)r()c('diir<! wt-re
I'Nci'lleiit ; if the ornanizatioii which should

It it Into execufion is dcfuirtive, the evil will
II exist, or rather the remedy will be iu-
fiflcaclous

" Good dmlnistratlon," .'ays Mr. Bertrand,
cimncillor to the Court of Appeals, of Fari.s,
"depends iQ a great nicaNuru upon theorgan-
giialzat ion ol judicial bodies

" With most, natioMS this organization is dif-
terent. With all theie are complnliits of lui-
pi'rle(aion8 and abuses. -11 demand reforms

•■ The problem to be solved is to rind an or-
g;inlzatlon which wiiile respectini^ the rules Ot
JiiBllce and e(iiiity can dlsi;o;j,e of the greatest,
aniountol business in the Vltnplest, mosiejipt
ditious, most, etiiclent and liast costly manner
lor all concerned

"This rer>r^anl>.atlon. then, is in the front
rank of > ms to be introduced."

ilere, theu, is a report wbich eman-
ates neither from the Government nor
irom myself, but from a body of tlis-
tiniiuiahed men completely independent
oC ttie Government, and which says:—
"This reorjjanizatio . then, is in the front
rank of the refc ois to he introduced."
Already the late Mr. Justice T. .1. J.
Loranger, i the j 'port presented in 18S2
by the first commissinn appointed for the
consolidatien of the (' de of Procedure,
insisted upon this capital point. Mr.
l'a>innelo in his excellent work entitled :
"Letter on .ludicial Reform," published
ill 1S80, had also pointed out this reor-
ganization as necessary. Hon. Mr. La-
flamme and Mr. Edmond Larue, in
brochures published in 1S82, eijually
mention it as the compeer with reform in
the Code of Procedure. Tliere is no doubt

that of all the reforms which we may at-
tempt these, widely combined, would pro-
duce the most considerable rosulta."

MU. lAll. AVMK's VIKWS.

1 cannot better terminate these re-
marks tlan in supportins; myself upon
the authority of an eminent man who has
recently been taken from us. 1 mean
tlie Hull. Mr. Uodolphe Latiamme, who
in 1SS2 wrote on the (juestion ot judicial
reform. 1"he opinion of Mr. LaHamme is
one tiiat everybody respects. As a lawyer
hf, WHS at the hea<l of liis profession. I
had lately char^jed him to represent in
Knaiand the interests of the province of
(iuel)ei' in a case of the highest import-
ance which he pleaded with so much of
ability, so much of science, so much of
zeal, that Sir Horace Davy, one
of the most distinguished mem-
bers of the English Ear, paid me the
compliment of tfianking me for having
sent Hon. Mr. Lallamine to give him the
assistance of hi.s legal talents. To-day
the eminent lawyer, the frank friend, so
loyal and large hearted, tiie former
minister of justico and attorney-general
ol the Dominion, has disappeared, and 1
profit by the occasion of so important a
(question as that which 1 am nowdiscus.s-
iiig, and which he had so well studied, to
render to his talents, to his merits, and
above all, to the act of courage an.l of
faith which illuminated his death, a pub-
lic and solemn testimony.

The honorable gentleman resumed his
seat amid a storm of applause from lioth
sides of the House.

.::S

X'..