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32X

■

THE BUDGET SPEECH

l)|- THE

HON. J. G. ROBERTSON

Trcasiinr <>J ihr Prot'hur of Qwhic.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,

QUEBEC, 24th. MARCH, 1885,

I'llINTED BY THE <JA/KTTE TIUNTINO COMPANY

1885.

THE BUDGET SPEECH

— OF THE —

HON. J. G. ROBERTSON,

TRE.VSITRKR OF THE PROVINCE up (JUEBEC.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,

QUKBI^^C, 2tTFi MARCir, 1S85.

The Speaker snhmitted a mossai^e from the Lieut-.Governor,

transinittinjL? the osliinates.

Hon. Ml*. Robertson rose, amid applause, and on motion
that the House go into committee of 8Uj)ply, said :

Ml*. Speaker — I l>eg leave to move that you do now leave
the ehair, and tliat the House foi'm itself into committee of 8up-

This motion necessarily involves certain explanations on my
part, which the House and the Countiy have a riirht to expect,
not only as to the disposition to be made of the monies asked
from fhe House, hut as to the sources from which these monies
are expected to come, and also it will he expected that some infoi--
mation should he jj^iven as to the I'evenue received durin<^ the
past tiscal year, and the disposition made of the same; as also
the prospects of revenue for the next yeai*, and its proposed econo-
mical expenditure for puhlic purposes.

I shall y'ive all the intormation T can on these points, and T
am sure the House Avill hear with mo while T as hriefly as po.s-
sihlo set hefoi'c iron()rahlc memhers my views on our Pi'ovinco
financially as respects the pasi, pi-eseiit and future fiscal years.

Mr. Speaker, you have experienced the difttculty of makin<^

quostionw of tiguros jiml tinaiu'ial statemenlH interesting to a
general audience, even thougli youi- expei'ienee for so manj'
3'ears as a prominent n\enil)er of the bar has given you a facility
of expression which I do not pretend to have or ever can acquii'c,
hut. Si]'. 1 can ahsui-e you and this House that so far as I am
iihle. my statements shall he clear, concise and I'eliahle, and will>
I hope, place matters in their true light before this House and
the country. (Cheers.)

I hold, Ml'. Speakei', that on an occasion of this kind it is
my duty to explain things Just as they are, to sliow tlio dark side
of the picture as well as the bright side. We must tind out tlio
miture and extent of a disease in order to be able to apply the
]>roper remedy, ami aUhoiigh it may not be pleasant at all times
to i-efer to disagreeable matters, still I take it this Jlouse wants
the true position of atfaii's to be given, und this 1 will attempt to
do.

THE PEOPLE AND TAXATION.

There is no disguising the fact that our Province, financially,
is not what we would all like it to be. That we need the closest
attention to our tinances in order that they nuiy bo ke[)t at all
what the}' ought to be, is evident to evciy one. Our revenue, to
say the least, is not increasing much, and in some branches,
must, in the nature of things and fi-om cii-cumsiances which are
lieyond our control, be seriously lessened before long. The state
of pidilic o|iinion in this Pi-ovince is such that it is almost impos-
sible lo collect what is honestly due the (."rown, from the fact
thai a great part of our |»eoplc have not been accustomed to con-
tribute towards (Jovernment expenditure, but, on the contrary,
have been accustomed to i-ely upon the Government for assistance
for purely local objects, which should have been found from local
sources. On the otlu'r haml, it requires almost superhuman
etlbrts to keep the exj>enditure for so culled public purposes within
proper bounds, ami the fact is })atent that all governments are
expending more largely Irom year to year, I do not say in all
cases unduly or impro|>ei'ly, but the business of most countries
is increasing rapidly, and requires more supervision and more

to a
iniiny

'acility

cquii'o,
T am

Id will?

..so and

d it is
irk side

out the
ply the
11 times
c wants
empt to

iincially,
e closest
pt at all
onue, to
^ranches,
liic'h arc
Che state
■t impos-
the tact
i to con-
ic )nti-ai'y,
ssistance
•om local
erhiiman
3S within
lents are
ay in all
countries
,nd more

expenditure. It is always easier to tind fault with olheis than
to <lo hetter ourselves, and tlu' diliieiilty connected witii carrying
on our ^ystem olTrovernnicnt should not he overlooked in judg-
ing of how matters arc carrieii on either as to the collection of
revenue or its oxpeiiditure.

It is no new thing for mc to urge the ahsolute necessity of
retrenchment and economy in oui- expenditure so as not to ex-
ceed our ordinary annual revenue, or to urge the propriety of
collecting closely in order to increase our receipts. The ditficulty
however, arises in carrying into every day ju-actical operation
these important ohligalions. While hundreds of thousands ot
peo[)le practically ignore their ohiigation to pay government
claims, and hoM hack from payment, and furthermore ai'c clam-
erous for money for thousan<ls of dittcrent ohjects which they
consider legitimate and nece^saiy from the Government, it is
hardly possihle for a (lovernmijut to do as they would and satisfy
the people of the country.

Our entire system of government may be said to hinge upon
our financial condition, with that in gootl shape — with sutficient
revenue to moot the demands of the public sei"vicc — to meet, say,
the administration of Justice, our educational institutions, sup-
ei'ior, common and benevolent, sufficient to meet demands for
agricidtural and colonization purposes, to permit of assistance
to railway conslriiction in various parts of the Province, to meet
the expenses of legislation and of the civil service. With all
these provided foi' as resjtocts money, everything then would
work smootlily and satisfactorily. Such a state of things is highly
desirable and worthy of every etfort from all of us to accomplish.

This state of things does not exist at present, and the problem
to be solved is to conduct the public business of the country
with efficiency and at the same time economically ; to collect
what is due the Crown without unduly pressing upon tho
debtors, and also to limit the expenditure for necessary objects
without impaii'ing the proper working of our institutions.

Here is where the difficulties come in. These things are easier
to talk about than to carry out, but it is necessary to allude to
them from time to time so that all may see our position and feel

the obligations resting upon then., and .lo their share towavdB
bringing about the desire^l .eBult -a proper equihbnum in om

tinance.-j. , , .

The public accounts, for the past hscal yeai-, m a somewhat
altered form Irom heretofore, have been laid betbre the House
and contain tbe receipts fmni all sources and the expenditure fm-
th-it period I trust honorable members upon examination will
and them on the whole satisfactory, an.l altbough we have not
been able to do all in the way of collections and expendi-
ture which could have been wished, at the same time our
revenue has been kept up to its usual standard, and our expendi-
ture, within the appropriations, made as far as possible consistent
with efficiency in tbe public service.

RECEIPTS ANI> EXPENDITURE 1883-84.

I shall now i'-ive a short summary of ivceip s and expenditure
.rrouped together, which may assist some in runderstanding the
accounts l,etter, and at any rate will afford the general public
information which they can only obtain through newspaper
reports: —

KECEIPTS.

Dominion of Canada .1:^1,014,712 12

Ontaru .-Un account of interest on Common School

,,^'^"^'V--V 753,37828

^;^"^'^^^"^^' 2G884048

Y''''''^' 242,1)1091

•Instui' (• mo <)n

Public ( Ulicers— percentage ^>^' )_' ^"

_ .... 3!l,) 07

Legislation -^d onn no

1 iisurance on LiDrary burned '^-''-'^ "^

,,.,,, . . l(>,7oo lo

Otiicial (<azotte '

\svlums — Contributions l)y municipalities and

^^^^ , 2,598 88

patients '

Public Huildin^'s- J'-^^f ;^"

Casual Uevenue _'

I'onsioii Fund-Contributi'jus /^'^'^ Jf^

Interest '

Quebec Fire Loan f^^

Municipal Loan Fund 5,788 58

owavdR
in our

new hut
House
turo for
ion will
live not
'xpcndi-
me our
3xpendi-
>nsistent

enditure
ling the
il public
wspaper

12 12

100 00

578 28

m 48

)10 91

L80 90

^95 67

JOO 00

73:5 15

598 88

388 GO

119 99

470 13

979 13

506 66

,788 58

Direct Taxes

Teachers' lV^nsiou Fund — Contributions...
Trattic Collections— Q. M. 0. iS: (). Railway.
Interest on Price— Q. M. 0. & O. Railway.
Refuntls

5,757 40

16,02] 37

1,248 98

374,532 82

5,317 54

$2,885,081 59

Trust Funds — Marriaj^e licenses, tkc 8,0()4 81

Repayment of Advances 2,250 00

City of Quebec payment towards North Shore Ry . . 220,000 00

Rent of railway property collected 163 34

North Shore Ry. Co. — Refiuid of amount paid City

of Quebec under agreement of 21st Aujr., 1882.. «. 15,000 00
Proceeds of debentures issued under 45 Vic, Cap. 18. 2,363,033 M
Temiwiiry Loans 400,000 00

$5,893,593 OS

HXI'HNDITUKE.

Public Debt $964,192 56

Legislation 216,864 78

Civil Government 202,820 80

Administration of .Justice, including Police, Refor-
matories and Insptiction 464.548 51

Public Instruction, including teachers' pensions....

Literary and Scientific Institutions

Arts and Manufactures

Agriculture

Immigration and Repatriation

Colonization

Public Works and Buildings 1254,075 13

Less to be paid out of Loan, pro-
ceeds of debentures 137,854 33

Lunatic Asylums

Grants to Charitable Institutions

Reformatory and Industrial Schools

Miscellaneous

Agent in France

Fish and Game Protection Club

Drill Shed, Quebec

Royal Commission re Construction of Parliament

Buildings

Royal Commission re Jacques Cartier Election

351,315 00
18,399 30
3,000 00
85,941 75
17,000 00
82,246 35

116,220 80

227,.500 00

47,412 00

20,500 00

26,000 00

2,500 00

250 00

15,000 00

300 00
300 00

Municipal Loan l-'uud — Salary ami (^xjHinses of

Conimissioucr 1,4.VJ 37

EiiLrin('»'r.s I'oi iniiiiiiLr i»iii|M>seis 2,64«) 20

( rown Lauds <*xiKMulitun' 170,4'"* -lii

Ollicial <iaz(itu> 11,32N (18

Pensions 17,041 2."i

Municipalities Fund 7!»2 0(>

Stamps, liiconses, 6ic 14,N03 .S4

Kovenue Pi .lict» 2,1G4 82

Lioo.nses, payments l)y Revenue Collectors out of col-
lections 18,715 79

liuildin;.' ami .lury Fund — payments by Sheriffs out

of collections 10,662 !»9

Traffic Exi)enses— Claims, Q. ISI. & O. Railway 6,700 00

lt3,125,126 28
Trust Funds (distribution of Marriajj^e Licenses fund

nnd payment of K. ( '. SuiK^rior Ed. deposit) 7,49."> 00

Parliament I'.uildings — Payments out of proceeds of

Loan of 1SS2 83,835 !»5

Court House, (.^"t^hec — to be repaid from debentures. 54,018 38
Seed (Jraiu Loan — truaranteed interest to be paid by

Muni(ii)alities 5,616 00

Quebec Central Guarantee l>opo.sit repayments 118,121 31

Railway Subsidies 137,465 80

(l M. O. v\: (). Pailway — Accounts out-

standinj.' for construction and lands, $210,428 50
City of Quebec under .agreement of

21st Aug. 1882, (repaid by North

Shore Railway ( 'o.) 15,000 00

234,428 59

Q. M. (>. i^ (>. Railway — Changing line from Prince

IMward street 203,125 00

Temporary loans repaid 700,000 00

4,0()!»,232 31
Balance 1,224,:56(» 77

Memo :

$5,803,503 08

Cash on hand isl .inly, iss;; ,....$1,125,335 24

Less unpaid warrants at oOth June, 1883 (since paid) 03,050 64

$1,032,284 60

Balance of roci'ipts and paj'inents for tlic year

1,S83-S4 ... 1 ,l.'L'4,;5(i(» 77

SL'.25<),()4r> 37

Cash oil liaiul odth Juiio,*l.S84 S2,3-JS,7K5 7S

Less uin)aiil warrants 72,()<i.S 41

-S2,1.'56,G45 ;17

l") 70

Ii will !)(.! >ueii IVoiii the uhove stutcmcnt thai what may ho
tormod oi'<linury usual receipts amounted during- the last Hseal
year to $2,885,081, 5l>, and with receipts from all suuii-es, trust
funds, railway re(teipts, proceeds of loans, &c., hrought tlie amount,
received up to $5,893,51)3,08.

The expenditui'c upon orUmuiy public services amounted to
$3,125,120.28, and for all jiurposs including Parliament buildings,
Quebec court house, ridlway. -subsidies and i^-uarantee and towai'ds
construction of Xorth .'"UioaO lint!, rep'i^ nient of tem|)Orary loans.
Ate, amounted to S-1,'jG;),232.31, leaving a difference of $1,224,-
3oO,G7, excess of gross recoipiS /vei- gross expenditure.

The difference between ordinary usual receipts, and ordiiuiry
usual expenditure would seem to be $2-i". 000.00, a considei-ablo
reduction on former years, and a step in the right direction. As
a matter of course the cost of the erectiou of the Parliament build-
ings comes out of loans, and of the (Quebec court hous'i out of
debentures authorized to be issued b} statute to re-imbui"se the
outlay on that building.

It will be observed that our princijjal receipts were from the
Dominion (rovcrnment. Crown Lauds, Licenses, Justice and In-
terest, ranging pretty much the same from year to year. There
was a falling off from Licenses last year, of some 30,000 dollars,
owing to the change of the law by the Dominion, which I fear will
be exceedeil this year. The Crown Lands fell short by $5*, 000
last year, but came up to the estimate made of I'eceipts for that
Department. The other items of recei])ts averaging nearly the
same as formei- years.

The interest upon our public debt was nearly one million of
dollars, and Civil Government, Legislation, Administration of

nmm

Justice,' Education and Agiiculture and Colonization absorbed
most of the expenditure aside from what was spent on public
buildings.

COMPARISON WITH ONTARIO.

To show how increase in cxpendituj'o naturally ccmes with

with others as well as ourselves, let us look at the Province of
Ontario and see whether the expenditure has been increasing
there or not.

1871. 1873. 1884.

Legislation S^ 94,177 133,366 141,440

Civil Government 114,613 202,898 179,825

Justice 182,621 275,244 331,026

Education 351,306 513,347 531,551

Pu])lic Institutions 213,039 648,995 600,216

Immigration 29,712 47,764 43,369

Agriculture 74,927 139,725 195,362

MiaceUaueous 34,559 103,717 84,754 ,

$1,094,954 $2,065,056 $2,107,643

I have not taken all the items in the Ontario Statement, but the
expenditure on other objects is even higher in proportion than
those I have given, and show that in what some think the model
Province of the Dominion, they are obliged gradually to increase
their ox])enditure whether their revenue increases or not.

The deticit last year in Ontario, from published statements, that
is of expenditure above receipts, exceeded $880,000. I do not
allude to this as blaming the Ontario people, or as feeling pleased
iU a deliciency, far from it. 1 take it they understand their own
Inisiness better than 1 do, and are perfectly competent to man-
age their own atfairs, without any outside assistance or dicta-
tion.

It shows, however, what I have alluded to, the liability, and
some think necessity of increasing expenditure, as the country
is settled up and population increases, in carrying on public
artairs.

1 absorbed
t on public

scmeB with

i*rovince of

increasing

1884.

141,440

179,825

331,026

531,551

600,216

43,360
195,362

84,754

2,107.643

ent, but the
ortion than
i. the model
to increase
not.

>ment8, that
. I do not
ing pleased
d their own
)nt to man-
3e or dicta-
ability, and
he country
on public

Oui' increase of expenditure will be seen from the following
table : —

1871. 1882. 1884.

Legislation 128,921 197,l:U 21(i,864

Civil (Government 128.673 179,234 202,820

Justice 271,212 380,093 385,985

Education— Literary and \ ojum^ V->i\'\^7 ".7t>7l4

Scientific Institutions. \ ^^'^^^ ^^^'"^-^ "'^'^^^

Agriculture 59,748 97,767 85,941

Immigration 19,581 14,600 17,000

Colonization 221 ,652 82,240 82,246

Public Works 134,008 121,263 116,220

^^w''.^:""^""''*''''^^^"} 1^-'^'^^ -'^^''-"^^ -^^''^'

$1,420,001 1,727,087 1,775,202

These statements show that Ontario has increased her expendi-
ture from 1871, on certain services, from $1,094,954 to, in 1883,
$2,0G5,05t], and to. in 1884, 62,107,643, and Quebec, in 1871,
from $1,420,000 to, in 1882, $1,727,017, and in 1884 to $1,775,-
202, — an increase in Ontario from expenditure in 1871 to that in
1884 of $1,012,089, almost double in "84 above 1871; and in Que-
bec from 1871 to 1884 a dittercnce of $35.'),201, While Ontario
between 1871 and 1884 increased $1,012,089, Quebec increased
during the same pej-iud only $355,201,

These tigui-es show consideralde increase of expenditure both
in Ontai'io and Quebec, and there is no question l)Ut the greater
part of such increase was necessary in the public intere^'t tbi- the
administration of public atlaii's, I wouUl not l)e understood as
justifying in any way any unnecessary expenditure by Govei-n-
ment, even if our receipts were annually increasing, hence the
necessity which exists, in view ul not much increase in revenue,
to carefully watch and guard every item of expenditure. The
first thing to see is that the money is spent in the ])ublic interest
for purely pul)lic pur|)oses, so as not to allow the public welfare
to suffer, then to carefully cut oil' all unnecessary expenditure for
purposes not absolutely reipiired in the public interest. As
to the necessity of making collections 1 will allude to it by
and by.

LIABILITIES AND ASSETS.

1 now prOHent an approximate statement of lial)ilitie8 and assets
of the ri-ovince, made np to the close of the last tiscal year, which
shows considerable improvement during the past year.

LIABlLtriES.

Funded de)-»t outstandinji •••

Temporary loans and deposits •

Railway subsidies autliori/xjd but not yet earned.. .
Balance of estimated cost of rarliauient building...
Balance of estimated cost of Quebec Court House. .
Balance of land and other debts of Q. M. O. & O.
Railway 209,475 50

.$18,283,980 00

. 011,595 4:^

. 1,528,195 75

20f),8;55 77

95.20(J 44

$20,995,348 89

ASSCTS.

$7,600,000 00

Bart of price of Q. M. 0. cSc 0. Ry.,
paid and invested $ ()00,000 00

Balance of Q. M. O. <kO. Ry., un-
paid 7,000,000 00

Capitalized railwav subsidies under the 'Dominion

Act 47 Vic, Cap' 8, 2,394,000 00

Special Deposits 1,600,000 00

Cash in Banks 128,713 78

Cost of Jacques Cartier Montreal School to be repaid

fn ini sale < )f proiK^rty in Montreal 138,348 02

Quebec ('ourt House del)entures to be issued 150,000 00

Loans and amount due by Province of Ontario.. .■. . 154,951 20

City of Montreal, subscription to Hull bridge 50,000 00

City of Montreal— ditl'erence between $132,000 00

and cost of lauds expropriated between Dalhousie

!S(iUare and Hochelaga

74,5(i7 58

$12,290,580 58

Leaving a balance of liabilities over assets at 30th
June,1884 $8,704,768.31

From the statement of assets and liabilities just presented, it will
appear that it ditt'ers considerably from that presented last year.

»s and ftHsots
your, which

I'.

83,980 00
ll,5!»r) 43
-'8,1! 15 75
0f),8:55 77
)5,2G() 44

li9,475 50

95,348 89

tOO,000 00

194,000 00

100,000 00
.28,713 78

38,348 02
50,000 00
.54,951 20
50,000 00

74,5(i7 58
190,580 58

704,708.31

entcd, it will
od laaj, year.

It is made up to the ontl of the last fiscal year, T thinking it bet-
ter to have all our statoinents and accounts correspond with the
Public Accounts as to the time they are made up. rather than have
some end the 30th June, and others the 30th December in eacli
year.

IMPROVEMENT OF THE FINANCIAL POSITION.

Amongst the assets I have not placed [$2,5 19,213.01, being the
interest withheld by the Dominion from 18G7 to 1873, when the
surj^lus debt of the late Province of Canada, placed by the Con-
federation Act upon the Provinces of Ontario ami Quebec, was
assumed by the Dominion. For years the Quebec Government
had contended that by the terms of the Dominion Act of 1873,
which relieved the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec from the
surplus debt of Canada, tbese Provinces were entitled to the
interest upon the sui'plus debt from Confederation to the time
of the assumption of the same by the Dominion. Our preten-
sions were for yeai-s uniformly resisted by the Dominion Gov-
ernment, when something like a year ago it was i)r()posed to
submit the decision of the question to tlie Privy Council in
.England. To this we assented, but the Dominion (fovernment,
upon a closer examination, decided that we weiv rigid, and
accordingly allowed us the interest upon what was withheld
from us from year to year, with interest at tive per cent, upon
the several amounts, making in all .S2, 549, 213. (11. We do not
receive any i»art of the capita! but only the interest at tive
per cent yearly towards tbe maintainance of our Provincial insti-
tutions, the ca|)ital not being available for payment of our funded
deijt. 1 have ti'cateil it as additional subsidy and not as an asset.

It is a curious fact, Mr. Speaker, that tbe assumption of the
surplus debt of the late i^'ovincc of Canada by the Dominion,
and the interest thereon fi'oni 18(i7 to 1873, were entirely
obtained from the Dominion (iovernment by tbe efforts of the
Quebec (Jovernment, altiiougb Ontario l)enetitted by the mea-
sui'es more than (Quebec did. At the same time, she did nothing
towards assisting us in obtaining a recognition of our rights
from the Dominion. In fact, a majority of the members from

Ontario voted acjainst being relieved from the surplus debt and
gave no assistance in obtaining the interest thereon, although
gaining largely by tlie measures.

I was in doubt somewhat about placing the amount mentioned
us an asset, as it is intended for payment of current expenses,
and allude to it merely as an additional source of revenue — that
is, the interest upon that sum coming in annually — we had not
before.

Another item amongst our assets for the first time is
S52,:}1»4,000 — arising from the subsidy granted at last session of
the Dominion Parliament towards the construction of the
Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa iV Occidental Railway from Quebec to
Ottawa, $12,000 a mile from Ottawa to Montreal and $(),000 a
mile from Montreal to (Quebec. Some months since I had an
Order-in-Couucil passed appropriating that amount as sinking-
fund upon our loan of 1874, and requesting the Dominion Gov-
ernment to agree to pay us five per cent, interest semi-annually
till 1004, the maturity of our loan, and at that time to pay us
the pi-in(U))al towards the redemption of our debentures. While
the Dominion bad provided tor the interest being payable to
Quebec as the Dominion and Quebec Governments might agree,
the Minister of Justice was of opinion that legislation would be
necessary in order to authorize the i)ayment of the principal
sum at any given time ; and accordingly I had another Order-in-
Council passed, revoking the former one and providing for the
payment of the interest at five per cent, per annum, semi-
annually, on the tii'st day of April and October in each year to
]!H)4, upon S2,;)l>4,0()0, the railway subsidy, towards interest on
our funded debt.

It will be noticed that thei-e is no mention made in the liabili-
ties and assets of the legislative appropriations on the one side,
or estimated revenue, on the other, for the current year. This
simplities the statement, and leaves the question of over-
ex[)en(liture or diminished recei})ts on one sid'e ; and, as I said
before, it is better to have our statements, as far as possible,
agree with the fiscal year's accounts.

I have not taken into accouut the pretended balance of

LIS debt and
n, although

; mentioned
t expenses,
'^enue — that
ve had not

3t time is
session oC
on of the
I Quebec to
id $fi,0()() u
5 I liad an
as sinking-
inion Gov-
li -annually
to pay us
es. While
payable to
iglit agree,
1 would be
> principal
r Order-in-
ng foi' the
lUm, semi-
3h year to
nterest on

the liabili-
n one side,
oar. This
of over-
as I said
s possible,

alance of

accounts against us by the Dominion or the Common School
Fund or Municipal Loan Fund. As these are still unsettled, it
was better to not attempt to fix amounts on either side, but to
leave them out altogether; but, when all these accounts are
closed up, I have no doubt the balance of our liabilities will bo
reduced.

It would be improper for me in this connection not to allude
to our improved position, financially, — consequent upon amounts
received through Dominion legislation — this year above last
year ; and it is a matter of great satisfaction to me personally to
know that, as forming ])art of the different (Quebec Govern-
ments, I have worked hand in hand with my colleagues in the
interest of the Province, and that we have been so far successful
in our efforts to improve the finances of the Province.

Some years since, in alluding to our claims against the Domi-
nion Government, I expressed my confidence in our obtaining
that justice to which we were entitled at their hands. We have
been so far successful, and T have still confidence that our
demands at present before the Dominion Government will soon
be adjusted to our satisfactiim. We want only a [)roper recogni-
tion of our just claims. These we will continue to urge, and,
judging from the past, wo have ever}' reason to hope that the
Dominion authorities will accede to our demands.

As to the receipts and expenditure for the current year, hon-
orable members will recollect that these partial statements for
part of a year ai-e not to be taken as a criterion of the whole
fiscal year's business. At some periods of the year the expendi-
ture is larger than at others, and at other periods the reteipts
come in more abundantly than at some other period. For
instance, our expenditure is large at the first part of the year,
when Colonization, Education and Agriculture grants are dis-
bursed, — and, again, our Crown Lands and License receipts
come in at other jieriods, so that it is only at the close of the
year that we can judge of the whole year's business and how it
comes out. At the same time, it is quite proper the House
should have such statements for examination, in order to see
how revenue comes in and expenditure is made for a certain

part of the year. No further allusion to that Htatement furnished
the House is required at the present time.

SUPPLEMENT^UIY ESTIMATES FOR THE CURRENT TEAR.

I now come to certain expenditure for the current year for
which the appropriations made last session were insufficient.
These are larger than I had anticipated, but T thought it better
to wait for the House to pronounce upon them than to issue
siiecial warrants during the recess.

We have for Legislative Council $ 3,670 27

" " Assembly 14,r)()0 00

Parliamentary Library 900 00

Indemnity to Parliamentary OJlioers for loss by \

iire in the l)iiruing of the old Parliamentary > 1,198 40

Buildings '

$20,328 67

The amount for the Legislative Council is comprised of balance
of sessional printing, extra clerks, copying burnt Journals, &c., as
estimated by the officers of that House.

The amount asked for the Assembly is for extra clerks, $4,000 ;
messengers, $1,050 ; stationery, $2,000 ; printing and binding,
S(i,000; and sundries, $1,510,

Foi- the library, three clerks and messengers, $825 ; and sta-
tionery, &C'., $75. The other item mentioned is for compensation
to officers of the House for loss sustained by them in consequence
of (he burning of tlie Parliament buildings two years since. This,
although it must l)e voted and paid, is not properly to be charged
against the Revenue of this year.

Then we have Civil Government i?6,000.

This is composed of contingencies for Lieutenant-Governor's
office, $1,500, as the appropritition made was all expended previous
to the entry into office of the present Lieutenant-Governor. Eail-
way dejiartment, $2,000. tSomehow there was an error made, I
presume by me, in not asking enough for this department last

nt furnished

TEAR.

3nt year for

insufficient.

ght it better

lan to iHsue

3,G70 27

14,r)()0 00

900 00

.session. Cr-own Tjands ilepai'tTnent, §2.000 ; Pul)lic Insti-uction,

1,198 40

520,328 67

id of balance
i-nals, &c., as

Qrk.s, $4,000 ;
tnd binding,

25; and sta-
ompensation
consequence
since. This,
be charged

. $6,000.

it-Governor's
ided previous
^'ornor. Rail-
rror made, I
artment last

Administration of .fustice .-?9,27"

Polico 200

In the statement published containing the details of certain
services for next year, I have li'iven in detail the salaries of all
the officials connected with justice made up from the pay-sheets,
which shows the amount required for next year to be $35(5,646.48,
and the vote at last session for the current year was, 8347.."i(i7,
leaving the balance of $9,27^.48 now asked for, to complete
the current year. The same is true of police voted last year
$13,800, whereas required for next year $14,090, leaving $290
required to finish the current yeai-.

Reformatories $10,000

For Eeformatories (prisons for boys)$lO,000 is required to tiinsh
payment for this yeai", owing to an increase in the number of
inmates. I vei-y much question whether these institutions are
doing all the good that was anticipated when they were estab-
lished and it seems tome that moi-e care should bo exercised in the
sentencing of young boys to these reformatories — so called. I
am afraid that many parents, in order to get i-id of the care of
their children, bring charges against them for tJ'ifling offences so
as to have them cared for by the State, to relieve themselves of
what they consider as a burden.

Rents, insurances and repairs of pubiii buiMiiiu's $4,876

This amount is i-e(|uired for Laval Noi'mal School, S600, special
guard additional, $1,400, alterations, Spencer Wood, $1,376, and
electric light, $1,500.

New Parliament 1)uil(lin^fS S30,000

Que))e(' Court House 1(),000

These sums will be required before the 30th .Tune, and need no
explanation.

SiTBUccr Wood— tialanco due on recousti-uction of stables. $450 r>3
This item explains itself.

Koformat( >ry Scliools for jiirls $2,740.

Industrial Sehoois 1,208

There is no question but there are great abuses connected with
the admission and retention of inmates in these institutions, and
the Government has been endeavoring with, I am sorry to
say, onl}' partial success to remedy existing evils. I am satisfied
that by far too many are sent to these places, and that parents
are to blame for so many being committed, and unless some
prom])t measures are taken, the cost of these institutions and Re-
formatories for boj^s will entail a serious burden on the Province,
with no cori'esponding good results.

In the Reformatory School for girls. Good .Shephei'd, Quebec
and Montreal, 1-10 inmates at $(\Ct a year, amounts to $9,240, and
the appi'opriation was only $()',500, leaving a balance of S2,t40 to
be provided for.

In the Industrial Schools, Nuns', Quebec and Montreal, and
Ladies' Benevolent Society, Montreal, Protestant, there are in the
former— 312 inmates at $C>0, making $18,720.00. The cost of the
Protestant institution amounts to $588.00, making together
$19,308.00. The appropriation last session was $18,100.00, leav-
ing $1,208.00 to be provided.

The two remaining items are Crown Lands.

Eejristration Service . . .
And Suspense Account .

$5,000 GO

2,000 00

$7,000 GO

The first item is towai-ds the expense of services rendered in
the Cadastral Branch of the Crown Lands Department and the
second to pay monies deposited on account of purchases of lands,
which must bo refunded, of course, if foi" any reason the lands
bought cannot be given to the parties wishing to purchase,
It is clear it is impossible to know beforehand how much to
provide for this service, but I preferred to have a special account
to meet these demands than to have amounts refunded from
year to year merged into general expenditure account. The
monies i-eceived by the Crown Lands Department are in fact trust
funds, held till it is ascertained whether the lands asked for can
be sold or not. IT sold, the money goes into general Consolidated
Revenue account, if not sold, the money deposited is returned.

onnected with
^titutions, and
am sorry to
I am satisfied
that parents
1 unless some
itions and Re-
the Province,

ihei-d, Quebec
$9,240, and
of 62,740 to

Montreal, and
ore are in the
tie cost of the
ng together
1,100.00, leav-

$5,000 00
2,000 00

?57,000 00

rendered in
iiont and the
ises of lands,
>n the lands
to purchase,
ow much to
3cial account
!'undod from
count. The
) in fact trust
sked for can
Consolidated
returned.

The whole of the current year >upplciuontary estimates
amount to 01O2,lo2.»;8 of which S30.000 is foi- public buildino-.s
to come out of loans and not annual revenue.

The expenditure for the current year must exceed considerably
what was est iniMted by me last session, because there is a large
expenditui-o I could not foresee or provide for. For instance : the
aid to distressed people in Labrador; the expenses of the extra
guard and electric light around the i)ublic liuildings, caused by
the dynamite explosions; the expenses connected with the two
paj'liamentary commissions and others which could not be foreseen
or calculated upon.

ESTIMATEO RKCErPTS FOR TriE XEXT YEAR.

I now ])ass to the estimated receipts fjr the fiscal year begin-
ning the 1st .Tuly next, and closing 30th .Tune, 1886'. These are
made up from the estimated receipts furnished from the several
departments, and founded upon the receipts of former years, and
from the i)rospoct of business expected to be done, collections
nuide, i*tc., 6cc., and are more or less liable to fluctuations from
year to year. All anyone can do in estimating i-eceipts is to act
according to the best of one's judgment and circumstances,
continually changing, it is impossible to calculate ])0sitively upon
what may be received. I am afraid that .some of my calcu-
lations made last year will not be reached, others will, 1 hope, be
somewhat exceeded, and on the whole, I trust there will be no
great reduction from what I anticipated.

I now give the details of expoete 1 receipts for next year, made
up according to the best of my judgment, making such explana-
tory remarks as 1 consider necessary. The first and principal
item is the

Dominion Government subsid}' ;^S89 252 80

Allowance for Government 70 qqo qq

I nterest on trust fimds 5^; 459 .52

^^'i'^'"s $1,014.712 12

Tben in luidition subsidy iimk^r Act ons,S4 127,460 68

Interest on ^n-aiit tor Q., M., (). c^ O. Railway 119',7O0 00

Makino- in all from tlio Dominion .$1,261,872.80

Those two latter items are the result of the Acts passed by the
Pomiiiion Parlianioiit last year, and are in addition to what before
that time wo received from the Dominion.

The tii'sl of tliesc is the inlcrcst at five pci- cent, upon the capi-
tali/.ation of the amount withheld from us from 1867 to 1873, at
which latter ])eriod the Dominion assumed the siirplus debt of the
late Province of C^anada, placed l)v the Confederation Act upon
the Provinces of Ontario and (Quebec. The second item is intei'cst
upon the grant on part of Q., M,, 0. & O. Ry., and l only regret
that we did not receive, as we ought to have received, what was
improperly withheld from us upon that part of the railway from
8t. Mai'tin's Junction to Quebec.

The next item is Common School Fund.

Interest from Ontario S40,000 00

There will be at least this amount due, even if w^e receive what
should be paid this year. We have only received this year
$25,000, but T expect before the end of the fiscal year another
825.000 from Ontario.

License duties ^255,000 00

The License question is one which has given me a good deal
of trouble during the past year, owing to the passage of the
Dominion License Act of 1883, which has aftected our revenue
considerably, and will do so more during the current yeai*.
From this source it is doubtful to say what may be realized, but
I have estimated it at the above amount.

It was supposed that when the conr;titutionality of the Quebec
License Laws was submitted to the Supreme Court of Canada,
if the decision was in favor of the Provinces, the Dominion
(Tovornment would acquiesce in the judgment and consider the
question settled, and feeling the importance of having the ques-
tion fully submitted to the Court and argued from a provincial
standpoint, the Government emploj'cd counsel to represent this
Province before the Supreme Court in common with some of the
othoi' Pi'ovinces. The case was ably argued on both sides, and
finally the Su[)reme Court unanimously decided that the Provin-

)asHecl by tho
) what before

[)on tho capi-
7 to 1873, at
IS debt of tho
on Act upon
3m is intci-ost
I only rogrot
xl, what was
railway from

S40,000 00

receive what
ed til is year
year another

255,000 00

a good deal

,ssage of tho

our revenue

urrcnt year.

realized, but

tho Quebec

t of Canada,

Dominion

consider tho

ng tho quos-

u ])rovincial

present (his

some of tho

h sides, and

the Provin-

cial authorities alono had the right to regulate and issue licouses
for the sale of intoxicating li([Uors by retail, but that the Dominion
Ciovernmcnt bad the right to issue wholesale licenses, and licenses
to vessels for the sale of li([Uors. This question was discussed in
Ottawa in January last, and although no ])ositive statement was
made that tho case would bo submitted to the Privy Council in
England, at tho same timo that such would most pi-oliably bo
done, was pretty clearly indicated. One ditticulty which occur-
red to the Ottawa (rovernment was tluit theditt'erent Provinces
had dilterent standards as to what constituted a sale by whole-
sale. Some of the l^i-ovim-e-' live gallons and upwards, others
three gallons, and sonic a quart and U])wards, and that if the Pro-
vinces had the i-ight to issue licenses by retail, there seemed no
reason why they should noi issue st'.^amboat licenses to vessels
trading wholly' within the Province, and not give such power to
the Dominion authority.

In view of the case going to the Privy Council, 1 thought that
inasmuch as the whole ditticulty as to the license question arose
from the Dominion Parliament interfering with Provincial rights,
and that, so far, the judgments of Provincial Courts, almost with-
out exception, and of the Supreme Court having been in our
favor, we should not be obliged to pay out money to defend
our rights in Kngland. I i-epresented this view of the ([uestion to
Sir John A. Miicdonald. and he agreed that the Dominion would
pay all the costs incurred in carrying the license case to l'']ngland,
where we will take good care to l>e fully represented. (Cheers.) I
must say that [ am disappointed at the non-acquitscenco in the
decision of the Supreme Court : at the same time, a decision of the
Privy Council, which, I have no doubt, will be in favor of the
Provinces, will finally remove all doubts on the subject, and main-
tain the Provincial authorities in their determination to preserve
their rights granted in the (Confederation Act.

In some cases the Dominion conunissionors issued licenses
without seeing that the provincial duties were paid, in others,
parties sold li([Uor on the strength of Dominion certificates, with-
out any license whatever, and the Dominion commissioners did
not prosecute for an infringement of their law and it is very ques-

tionablo whether oiii" officers have any right to pronocule thoHO
acting under Dominion authoi'ity.

ThoKo <litticiiiiio« I have laid Ijofore the Minister of Inhmd
Ecveuue, and iii-ged the ciu.spcnsion of the l)onuni()n Act until the
decision of the Privy (Council wa?* obtained, but that if the
Dominion Act was to be carried out, this yeai-, at least Provincial
officers should have the right to prosecute for ortencos against
Dominion as well as Provincial law, as the failure to take out
license, while not atiecling the Doniijiion revenue, seriously
jitiected ours, and diminished our receii)ts.

The operation of the " Temperance Act of 1878," better
known as the "Scott Act,' will also interfere very much with
our Provincial Revenue, This however, is not all loss to us.
1 have no doubt but if properly entbrced, great good will result
to the general community; crime will be lessened, and the cost
of criminal juslice diminished, and the general prosperity of the
countiy promoted. In some cases I fear the illicit sale of intoxi-
cating liij^uoi's will not be much lessened, and our revenue will bo
diminished at the same time,

Uad the decision of the Supreme Court been taken as tiiial, 1 had
intended to remodel our License Law, by limiting the number of
licenses to be issued, especially in cities, by introducing certain
clauses from the Dominion Act, and endeavoring to make our law
as perfect as possible. As the case stands now, it is under consi-
deration whether we should change our hiAV this session or not;
peilKi])s in view of the large reduction of licenses proposed in
Monii'cal, it may be necessarry to increase somewhat the license
dutie> there, and take more stringent means to prosecute those
who sell without license in the city. This will be considered bye-
and-bye.

Crown Lauds Ke venue.

$584,200 00

The Honorable Commissioner of Crown Lands has estimated
this for next year at some ^1G,000 loss than last year. I feel sure
that his estimate will be fully niaintained and probably exceeded.
lie probably preferred that his estimate of revenue should be ex-

JHOCUtO thOHO

iv (»!' Inland
Act until the

that if the
st Provinciul
nccs against

to take out
le, weriouHly

878," better
'• much with
1 loss to us.
I will result
and the cost
perity of the
le of intoxi-
onuo will be

s final, I had
e number of
!ing certain
lake our law
under consi-
sion 01' not ;
proposed in
L the license
secnte those
sidcred bye-

84,200 00

18 estimated

I feel sure

y exceeded.

iould be ex-

eoodcd by the actual ieceii)th than that his receipts should not
come up to his estimate.

We next come to ihe Adminisd-alion of Justice :-—

Law Stamps $175,000 00

Ilt^gistration Stumps IfJ.OOO 0(>

Law fees oxchisi vb of Stamps 6,500 (K) '

Buildin<r and Jury Fund 15,fKlO 00

Maintenance of Vagrant Trisonera. . . 7,000 (H)

House of Correction, Montreal 5,000 00

Gaol Guards 2 400 00

^'nes l!(X)0 (K)

Montreal Court House 5,000 00

$232,900 00

These amounts are pretty much the same as in former years
and will, I think, be realized and re([uire no special explanation.'
Then wo come to Public Officers :—

Percentage on their iees tijd.OOO 00

Do. " registration of renewals
of mortgages 1,000 00

$7,000 00

LegitJation — Fees on private bills 3 OOO 00

Ofiicial Gazette receipts I put at 18 750 00

which will, I have no doubt, be realized.
Lunatic Asylums: —

From mnnicipulities and paying patients 17,000 00

Public Building's rents l ,000 00

Casual Revenue 1500 00

Pension Fund coutributiuus 6,000 00

8,500 00

Interest on deposits I place at 60 000 00

A little less than last year as we are withdrawing deposits
from time to time for Railway Subsidies.

The Quebec Fire Loan 1 000 00

Interest on price of Q. M. 0. & O. Railwa\- 380^000 00

Municipal Loan Fund I estimate at 75 000 00

■i

UNWILLINGNESS OF MUNICIPALITIES TO PAY.

■ I ■

I ;

As to the estimated receipts from tlii^s fund, I must confess I urn
dit^appointed at the Hinall amount received bo far this yeai-, n(jt-
withstanding ail tlie etfoi'ts that have been made by my dcpart-
moui since last session. There seems no other course open to the
Government than to invoke the authority of the law to collect
what is due. Excuses of all sm-ts are made. It is said "we did
not expect ever to be called uyjon to pay the amount borrowed ;
we were told so repeatedly by our public men. We did not get
the bencHt from the expenditure of the money we expected. The
general public reaped as much or more benetit from the loan than
wo did — and the general public being our creditor should not
exact ]>aynient; in fact, it has been paid already; that we are
poor and cannot pay; that our money was spent in public works
of general utility and we have besides been taxing ourselves sub-
.se(jueiitly in aid of railway extension which the public acknow-
ledged as important by conti-ibuting towards the same railways."
These and many other excuses have been made and ai-e made
daily tui- non-payment and I see no other way, as I have said, than
to enJbrce collection by ^hw. There are many cases whore to
exact the full amount due would be too onerous for the munici-
palities, but in most cases there is a seeming determination not
to pay even what could be easily paid, and mild measures having
failed, recourse must be had to law proceedings to insure collection
of amount due.

Wliile speaking of the unwillingness of municipalities to pay
what is justly due the Government, or i-ather due the Province, I
may in this connection refer to amounts due the Building and
Jury Fund — due for the keep of lunatics, for keep of prisoners in
jail and other debts, and it is wonderful to see the unanimity of
oui' people generally to avoid payment of those comparatively
small amounts for each Municipality, but in the aggregate
amounting to a large sum for the Province. Hereafter leniency
in collecting those will cease to be a virtue, and other and more
stringent and efficacious means must and will be ado])led to force
defaulting or neglecting municipalities to contribute towards the

PAY.

sl confess I am

tlii>

year, rnjt-

by my dopai't-
rso open to the
law to collect
i said " we did
unt borrowed ;
Wo did not get
ex])ectcd. The
a the loan than
tor shovdd not
r ; that we are
n public works
ourselves sub-
)ublic acknow-
imo railways."
and are made
lavo said, than
ascs where to
3r the munici-
u-mination not
jasures having
sure collection

3alities to pay
le Province, I
Building and
)f prisoners in
unanimity of
omparatively
lie aggregate
if'tor leniency
her and more
opted to force
e towards the

Provincial Revenue, especially when the debts contracted were
for moneys they had and spent, (Cheers).

The amounts contributed by ^[unicipalities towards the support
of Public Institution-- in this Pi'ovince is a mere bagatelle as com-
pared with other countries, and the sooner our people begin to feel
their responsibility in this regard the better for them and the
better for the countrj-. While on an unpleasant subject, I had
almost foi-gotten one branch of it, that is the loan made by the
Legislature in 1872 to certain munici])alities in the counties of
Chicoutimi and Charlevoix for the purpose of ])urchasing seed
grain, some ^20,000. Almost notbing nas been ])ai<l, even upon
the interest of this loan, and the Government has been paying
interest u])on the amount for some twelve years past. This
account must be closed up, and it is curious to notice the variety
of excuses made lor non-payment of money which when granted
was deemed indisj)ensibly necessary to the welfare of the i)eople
asking for the loan. In fact it is viewed by many almost
as a crime to pay any money due the Province, and I must say
that but few localities transgress against public opinion in Ibis
regij'd.

I must acknowledge that I have failed to a great extent in en-
deavoring to collect ari-ears due without incurring law costs.
Now 1 fool justitied in ca'ling in the assistance of the law to en-
force payment, and I give fair warning to all interested of what
may be expected in this regard.

The next items are —

Re])ayments of loans made to Lunatic Asylums not yet
repaid.

1 expect to receive from —

St. Jean do Dicn ,fl,0(in 00

Beauport Asylum AfAM^ 00

$.S,500 00
Proceeds (itteboc Court House Dobcuturos SHO,000 00

Upon these Debentures I bave put down only ^M)0,000, as it is
posbible we may, under the law, issue some during the present

If-

fiscal your on account of the amount uh'cady expended and what
will be spent before 30th June next,

111 this connection 1 may observe that upon representation from
tiic Bar of Quebec, who were very anxious that some changes
should bo made in the plans, in order to give additional security
against tire, the Government agreed to change the plans of part
of the building, which will increase the cost considerably, and my
Honorable friend, the Provincial Secretary, will introduce the
necessary legislation to carry out the proposed extra cost.

The whole of the estimated revenue from the figures 1 have
given will amount to the sum of $3,042,722.20, as compared with
my estimate of last year, some §3,112,022.80. A glance at the
statements I have given will show uiion what services the reduc-
tions have been made — Crown Lands, Licenses, M. L. Fund
and a less amount upon (Quebec Court Ilouse Debentures than
last year.

THE COMMERCIAL CORPORATION TAX.

I may jterhaps bo allowed to mention, respecting this tax,
that wo have received a judgment in our favor by the Court
of Appeals in this Province, that is, the said taxes were considered
legitimate and constitutional, but there is no doubt that the cases
will be carried to the Privy Council for ultimate decision and I
can only cxj)ress the hope that the legality of the taxes and the
judgment of our Court of Appeals may bo conlirmed in England.
It will not, however, piobably make much ditference in our next
year's receipts, as law ])roceedings are proverbially slow and
rather uncci-tain.

ESTIMATED EXPENDITURE, 1885-86.

The proposed expenditure for the next fiscal year 1 will give
as brietly as possible in consideiing the estimated expenditure
for next year, the actual expenditure for the past year ending
•JOth June last, and the amounts voted for the various services for
iho current year, so that honorable members may see how they
compare from year to year. Some services will be found needing
more and sorae less, as circumstances require from time to time.

idcd and wluit

jent.ition from
some changes
;ional security
plans of part
u'ably, and my
introduce the
a cost.

figures I have
ompared with
glance at the
ces the reduc-
M. L. Fund
bentures than

ing this tax,
by the Court
31-e considered
that the cases
ecision and I
;axes and the
d in England.
;e in our next
11 y slow and

PUBLIC DEBT.

r I will give
. expenditure
year ending
lis sei- vices for
>ee how they
bund needing
time to time.

Wo paid on this account last year $964,102. 5(1, and appropria-
tions foi' iho service foi- the current year amount to $0!>1,787.43,
and the vote asked now for the next tiscul year is $085,817.65.
This includes sinking fund to redeem such part of the French
loan as may be determined by lot, and sinking fund for that part
of the loan of 1874 not provided for by statute. This amount is
one that must be met at all hazards to keep our credit "-ood
abroad, and can be reduced oidy as last as our debentui-es are paid.

LEGISLATION.

This includes both houses of the Legislature, expenses (con-
nected with the library, election expenses, printing and binding
the laws, law clerk, &c. These services cost for last year
$210,804.78, and the appropriations for this year, including sup-
plementary estimates, amount to $109,811.17, and the estimate
asked from the House for next year for the same services is
$105,475.00, made up as follows: — Legislative Council, compris-
ing speaker's salary, indemnity to members and mileage, salaries
and contingent expenses, including i)rinting. binding, i^c,
$30,C.'{0,00; Legislative Assembly, comprising speaker's salaiy,
indemnity to members and mileage, salaries and contingent
expenses, printing and binding, and $12,000.00 for the codifica-
tion of the laws— $112,295.00; library grant and salaries,
$0,600.00; ex])enses of elections. $3,000.00; clerk of the Crown
in Chancery, $800.00, printing, binding, and distributing the
laws, $5,500.00; law clerk salaries and contingencies of othce
$3,650.00, and d 'abates of the Legislature, $3.000.00— making in
all for these services, as 1 have said, $105,475.

Next comes

CIVIL GOVEIINMENT.

The amount expended last 3'ear on this service, including
$00,024.23 for contingencies, was $202,820,80. The apju-opria"
tions for the current yeai- $191,750,00 and asked for next year
$188,200. The small pamphlet in tiie hands of honorable
members gives the detail of the various departments of the Civil

Service. The salaries are the same as last year, with the ex-
ception of the Treainry Department, $750. 00 less than last
year. Cro\\Ti Lands Department an increase of $200.00 to an
officer who iuis had given him the superintendence of game
in the Province, Public Instruction Department an additional
clei'k in the l^nglish liranch and one extra messenger, at
a cost of SI, 100. 00. Thus the increase of salaries proposed
exceeds the past and present year by 8550.00 only. This will, I
hope, be satisfactory to the House, but I may be allowed to
remark here that there are a few of the employes who are not
paid enough for their services, and so soon as our tinancial posi-
tion is in better shape, as [ hope it will be soon, if I .ve any-
thing to do with the (rovernment 1 shall certainly recommend to
the Hou^o an increase to some of the civil servants. I am not
aware upon what principle the Civil Service Commission pro-
ceeded, but I am unable to agree with them in some of the reduc-
tions recommended. As I have said befoi-e on this subject, my
plan would be to employ the best talent that can be procured,
pay well for services rendered, see that the work is kept up and
well done and dispense with the services of inefficient clerks.
(xYpplause).
The next item is

ADMINISTRATION OP JUSTICE.

The expomliture upon this branch of the Civil Service last year
amounted to $385, 985.0!), the appropriations for this year to
S356.()i6.-l:S, and tbo estimated expenditure for next year to
$35U,t!4G.-48.

In the pamphlet shewing details of certain services tor next
tinancial year 1 have adopted a new system from that which form-
erly obtained by giving a detailed list of the sheritt's' salaries in
the old districts, of prothonotai-ies and clerks of Ciicuit Courts, and
clerks of the Crown and Peace, coroners, district magistrates,
with estimates of the contingent expenses, criminal prosecutions,
tSic, for the year. This will show the members of the House, in
as complete a form as possible, what the ajipropriation is re(|uired
for. 1 shall not repeat what 1 have so often stated as to the

rv*J^

yeai-, with the cx-
.00 less than last

of S200.00 to an
itendenco of game
nent an additional
tra messenger, at

sahiries proposed
only. This will, 1
lay be allowed to
oyes who are not
our tinancial posi-
m, if r A'e any-
inly recommend to
rvants. 1 am not
) Commission pro-
1 some of the i-educ-
Q this suhject, my
: can be procured,
)rk is kept up and
' inefficient clerks.

dl Service last year

3 for this year to

for next yeai* to

I services for next
n that which ibrm-
sheritt's' salaries in
Circuit Courts, and
strict magistrates,
ninal prosecutions,
s of the House, in
priation is ro(|uirod
1 stated as to the

obligation of the Dominion Government to assume the cost of the
administration of criminal justice.

This matter was again bi-ought before the Government in
Ottawa in January last, and it was ])romi8ed attention, particu-
larly with reference to amending the law so as to provide for a
further extension of the speedy trial system before police and
district magistrates, by taking away the i-ight of the accused to
ask foi- a Jury trial for minor ott'ences. tiiereby assuring more
speedy conviction of offenders or their release, if innocent, as the
case might be, and saving a large cost to the Province, not only
in trials foi- offences, but in keeping of prisoners in Jail avs^aiting
their trial.

I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, that in man}^ cases officers of our
courts tiy to induce prisoners for ]>etty offences to ask foi- a Jury
trial instead of a trial befoi-e a police or district magistrate, so
that it may be necessary to summon grand and petty Jurors, in
order that they may obtain fees in summoning the Jm-ors and
witnesses, entailing lai-go expense's (>n the Crown, in ])aynient of
crown officers, Jurors, constables and witnesses. The relieving
of a few of such officials from liirtlier sei'\ices under the C/'rown
would produce a good effect.

I POLICE.

I In the pamphl'M alluded to the details of cost of the police are
given. There was spent last }'ear on this service $l-f,523.83, and
a)t])ropriated foi' the ])iesent year 814,090.00, and required lor
next year !?l-4,0!)0. There is but little variation in this service
from time to time.

THE REFORMATORY PRISONS FOR BOYS,

Montreal, Leivis and Shcrhronkc.

There Avas spent on thes(> reformatories last year $54,500, and
voted for this year 855,000, and asked for next year's operations
S5f),000.

1 am not at all s:itisfied with the oj)eration of these institutions.
There are too many young boys sent there Ibr trilling olfences ;
they derive little, if any, good from Iheii- detention; when liber-
ated, not knowing anything ab(mt farming pursuits, they go to
the cities for employment and fall again into vice and finally in

many instaneos graduate in the ponitontiarios. They ought Id
1)0 broug-lit up far more to agi'icultural pursuits than tliey now
are, not so many kept together as thei-e are in the city insti-
tutions, and wlion liberated, the hoj-s would seolc work in the
countiy pai'ts. and be far less likely to fall again into crime.
(Cheers.) Again, the price paid for the keep of the boys is by far
too high and when another contract is made, I hope this will be
looked after. Then comes

INSPECTION OP PUBLIC OFFICES.

Upon this service there was spent last year 80,539.50, and
granted hy the House for the current year $7,000.00, and requii-ed
for next year 87,000.00. The details of this service ai-e also given
in the statement referj-ed to and need no ex2)lanation. Justice, un-
der the various heads given, amounts in the whole to S4'32,7;}0.48
a> against paid out for the same services last year |4:G4,548.51.

PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

The amount spent for superior education last 3'oar, including
high schools, Quel)ee, and Monti-eal, and compensation to fioman
(Jatholic institutions for high school grants, was $78,410 ; the
same granted for last year, and, asked for this year.

COMMON SCHOOLS.

The sums asked for are :

Commou Scbools $100,000 00

Sc]io« lis in jioor municipalities 6,000 00

Normal Scliools 42,000 00

Inspection of Schools 29 ()75 00

Superuunuated Teachers 8,000 00

Bouks for I'rizes , 4 500 00

Schools f( u' the l^eaf and Dumb 12,200 00

Sclutol for Deaf and Dumb, Mile End 1,000 00

Council of Public Instruction I.750 00

Jovnifil of Pnhlir rmlrndion, French and English 1)00 00

Rimouski Colle^-c, towards n^-bnilding, last payment. 2,000 00

St. Ther^so CoUey,!^ 000 00

So'urs des SS. Noms de Jt'sus et Marie, at St. Bartlie-

lei"' 150 00

St. Roch de L' Achigan Convent 150 00

Tliese amount to in all $348,735.00

They ought Id
han tliey now
the city insti-
k work in the
in into crime.
B boys is by far
)pe this will be

80,539.50, and
0, and requii'cd
) are also given
n. Justice, an
to ^4:32,7;}(>.48,
|4a4,548.51.

'eai', including

tion to Koman

Si 8,410 ; the

$100,000 00

6,000 00

. 42,000 00

. 29,075 00

. 8,000 00

4,500 00

12,200 00

. 1,000 00

1.750 00

000 00

2,000 00

150 00

.$348,735.00

Thei'c was paid out for almost similar services last year, with
a few exceptions. 8351,315.00. and voted for the present year
year $340,885.00. 1 have not, as regards the grant tor superior
education or common schools, made an}' deduction for the Poly-
technic school, or for the deaf mutes and blind, choosing rather
to let the House deal with these exceptions, but I may remark
that a good deal of complaint was made about taking so
large a percentage off common school grants, as being more
than a just proportion, taking into account the numbers of chil-
dren attending (uir common schools, as compared with those un-
foi'tunate blind and tleaf mutes. At all events, if any amount is
taken oif, we must try and have it moi-e eleai-ly e.Kpressed as to
what is really meant, than was done last year. The next item to
come to is

LITERARY ANB SCIE.VTIPir rNSTITUTION'S.

For copyinc; and i)ublishing Canadian Arcliivo^s S5,000 00

School ofNavi<.'ation ■ 500 00

And to secure a supply of vaccines 500 00

Making in all $0,000 00

There was paid for similar objects on a much larger scale,
however, last year, 818,300,30. It was found necessary to ex-
clude from the list of gi-ants last year many institutions, literary
and sciontiric, which formerly received aid from the public trea-
sury, and 1 did not see my way clear to i-oplaco them at this
time, although there wore amongst them several I would gladly
have aided, had il been possible consistently with the means at
our disposal.

As to the supply of vaccine, T have thought it best to place the
grant in the hands of the City of Montreal Board of Health, and
1 am sure that body will see to the expend ituro of the money so
as to give t!ic largest possible bonetit to the whole Province. It
is important that a supply of gooil healthy vaccine should bo
kej)t, so that in case of need it can be procured by any medical
man at cost price, to prevent the spread of small pox.

ARTS AND MANUFACTURES,

Tho grant pi-oponed for next year is Uirgev than last year's, as
the Hoard had some money on hand before, which will be wholly
spent this year. This school 1 consider of great importance,
especially to our young mechanics, by giving them instruction in
drawing, making plans of machinery, buildings, <&c., during the
winter evenings, which ihoy could not otherwise obta,in. It is
doing a good work, and deserves the support of private indivi-
duals and the public to a larger extent than many are aware of.
Tho amount spent last year was 68,000, and that for this year
^tJ,000, and, as i have said, asked for next year !?D,000, (Applause.)

AGRICULTURE, IMMIGRATION, REI>ATUIATI0N AND COLONIZATION.

AyriciUiuri :

Conncil of Agrioiilturo % 8,000 GO

Agricultural Societies (by statute) 50,000 00

Journal of Agriculture, French and English 3,000 00

o Agricultural Srhools, French and English, $S00 each. 2,400 00

Vek^rinary Schools, French and Englisli , . . : 2,300 00

Aid to Gazette des ('anqjagnes 500 ftO

Butter and Cheese Factories, salaries, &c 2,000 00

Dairy Association (if the Province of Queliec 1,000 00

Miscellaneous Agricultural subscriptions to publica-
tions 400 00

Encouragement to culture of Fruit Trees and Vines . . . 500 00

Farnhani Beet Sugar l-'actory (by statute) 7,000 00

Horticultural and I'ouiological Society, .Montreal 1,000 00

rerniancnt Committee of Exhibition, Montreal, 4th in-
stalment of #3,300, and interest at 5 p. c. upon $0,600. 3,630 00
Immigration and Repatriation 10,000 00

Colonization :

Colonization Roads 70,000 00

Societies 5,000 00

Bridge over the Richelieu River, between LacoUo and

St, Thomas, 3r(l i)ay ment 2,000 00

Bridge over the Ottawa River, bet'.veen Calumet Island

and Bryson, 2d payment 2,000 00

Bridge over Chaudiere River, between St. Nicholas and
St. Romuald, 2nd payment 2,000 00

Total for Agriculttire, Immigration, Repatriation and
Colonizatiou $167,730.00

, as
>lly

ICO,

the
t is
ivi-
of.
3a I-
c.)

The amount paid last year \va,s, on Agriculture, $85,941.75 •
on Immigration and Repatriation, §17,000, on (,'olonization. $82,-
246.35. The appi-opriations laet year were, on Agriculture, 87.3 '-
895 ; on Immigration and Repatriation, $10,000, and on Coloni-
zation $82,000, as against lor these united services for next year
$167,730.

Last year there was no grant for the Council of Agi-iculture
as they had a balance on hand now expended, and the usual
amount has been placed on the estimates for next yeai-. The
other items for Agriculture are the sam(.' as last year. ' The item
for Immigration and Repatriation the same amount asked for
as last year, which, in my opinion, is by far too small, if we
would advance in population equally with our sister Provinces.

PUBLIC WORKS AND BUILDINQS.

Rents, insurances and repairs of public buildings generally,
$59,184. This is largoi- than last year, but we have to provide
for insurance this year, which will cost some $5,000, and other
repairs are needed to public buildings, of which 1 can give de-
tails when we go into committee.

Inspection of Buildinu^a $ 1,500 00

New Parliament Buildings, construction . . 85,000 00

New Court House, Quebec 90.000 00

Repairs Court Houses and Gaols 15,000 00

Rents Court Houses and Gaols 1,205 00

Insurance of Court Houses and Gaols 6,000 00

Making total for Public^Works and Buildings $257,889 UO

' As against spent last year 254,075 13

And as appropriated for tlio current j'oar 296,057 53

Now we come to

CHARITIES.

Under this head come our Lunatic Asylums at Beauport, St.
.lean do Dieu and St. Ferdinand dllalifax, $230,000. This
amount is ai-rived at by taking the number of inmates in the
three institutions mentioned. Under the new system proposed
in the Bill before the House, it is hoped that pai'ties who are not
3

5 ;■

proper subjects for admiHsioii will be kept out, and a better classi-
fication adopted which, with additional modicial attendance,
may assist in the recovery of many of those nnfbrtunates to
their former state of health and reason.

Then Mist'ollaneous Charities, which need no special mention,
amountini;- to 6i>T,T7r!, and art; merely a repetition of the lists of
tbrmer years.

Then lieformatorj' schools, $0,240.00, and Industrial schools,
$19,.",08.0o.

The latter institutions, as I have already remarked, are becom-
ing a lieavy burden on the State, and means should bo taken to
remed}' the gross abuses which exist in the way of committing
to these institutions delinquents of tender years who ought to be
under ])areutal control and not consigned to the care of others.
I am in ho])es legislation will l.»e had m this dii-ection at the pre-
sent session. The amount paid last year on charities was 0295,-
412; the amount of the appropriations for the current year
^298,9 12, and asked for next year $29(),324.

Then come Miscellaneous Services as follows : —

Miscellaneous general $20,000 00

En<:inccr, for miuing purposes, comprising explora-

ti< m iind inspect ion of uiimjs 4,500 00

Agent in France — salary and allowance for oHice . . . 'J,500 00

Pension Fund (by statute) 15,000 00

Municipalities Fund— C S. L. C, cap. 110, sec. 7. . .. 3,Ono 00

Registration Service througli Crown Lands 1(),000 00

Surveys Crown Lands 30,000 00 ^

General Expenditure Crown Lands GO.IjOS 00

Crown Lands suspense account 15,000 00

QuBl)ec Oilicial Gazette 13,000 00

Stamps, Licenses, including allowance Inspection.. 12,000 00
Seed Grain Loan, under 30 Vic, cap. 3. — Balance of

Capital , $18,720 00

Interest at ti per cent. May, 1884, to Juno,

30tli, 1885 1,310 40

20,030 40

[Making for Miscellaneous Services $217,032 40

Tho«e several amounts arc mosti v the same a« last year's appro-
priations an< I cost last jear, although not precisely ,he sHmo
Items, 1276,701.55. ^ ^ ^^

RAILWAYS. *

Q. M. O. & 0. Conetrnctiou-settlemont of nntstandine

accounts, of wl.ich 817.028 are a revote ,^25 000 00

. Balance duo on Ian, Is an.l property, of which ^:]7 074 '
are a revote '

Q. M. O. 6c 0. trallic oxp;;^;^";.;^' 'ntst^ndin: '''''' '"

<^a.ms, of which Sr,,014 are a revote jg on no

Subs.dies to Railway (Vunpanies 2.5O,W0 00

Total for Railways 8340,000 00

Quebec Central Railway Co, guaranteed deposit,
.'9 \n-., cap. 3, and 40 Vic, cap. r,, i>avnient of

interest on deposit made by Co S135,2i)3 34

Less on account of interest 4'909 50

• 130,383 84

The whole of the appropriations for the next fiscal

year amounts to q ^a- 09

Of which is to be paid out of proceeds"of ^,5-lo,929 37

loans and to be deducted :

?f'T ■;■;••••• 8340,000 00

tTUaranteed deposit repayment 130 383 84

Parliament Building ^5,000 00

555,383 84

Leaving to be provided , *'>990 545l3

. The total estimated.'revenue for next year is placed at^'],'o42,'722 20

Leaving a difference of 7~7Z~Z:

oJ,17(> 0/

Mr Sj)eaker, those estimates were ma^lo up without any rofer-

Tri.eUM"Tf''r; ^'"'' '''' '' '' '''''^'^ «-^ expenditure.
Theie will, I trust, bo as much collected as I expect, Ld at the

same l^ime there is no doubt there will be certain expenditures
called for, at present unknown, which will have to be met One
Uiingl may safely si.y, that th. propose.! expenditure to be voted
V. .11, I think, be suflficent for the public service. (Cheers)
Tbe same necessity exists for

ECONOMY AND RETRENCnMENT

Lo-(hiy as lias existed for yeai's past. At the same time there is
no <loubt liiit our annual deticits ai'e boconiin^" loss and loss year
by year, and with care, prudence, and strict supervision of the
I'Lxecutive, backed up by the action of this House in .such expense
as this House can directly control, I have no doubt l»ut that in a
year or two the Treasurer will be able to announce the good
news to this House and the country (hat not only cau ho make
the two ends of the year me(!t, but that a sui'plus of receipts over
expenditure is in the Treasury, a cousumnnition devoutly to be
wished by all, and which will be hailed with ])leasuro by every
one in tlie Province. Such is the aim of the Government, and
my best efforts, so long as f am in my present position, will be
directed, notwithstanding all the sacrifices made by the Province
in railway construction for colonization and agriculture and other
important objects, still to be able to show our finances on a sound,
safe, sul)stantial basis. (Loud ap])lause).

]Srow. Mr. Speaker, I have given to the House a summary of
the receipts and expenditure of the last fiscal year, with a less
deficit than for many y)revious years. I have laid a statement of
the liabilities and assets of the Province with certainly a better
show than in any former vctxv. 1 have laid an estimate of our
probable receipts and probable expenditure for next year before
the House, not by any means alarming, but, on the contrary, a
favorable prospect, and it remains for the House to take such
action in the premises as *o honorable membei's may seem best,
and with a few general remarks I will conclude. (Hear Hear).

It may not be out of place tor me to give the result of an

INTERVIEW liAD IN OTTAWA

in October last with the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon.
Treasurer of Ontario upon the question of the settlement of the
outstanding accounts between the Dominion and the Provinces
of Quebec and Ontario. We had several meetings, wherein the
mode of kee])ing the accounts of the Domiiuon wei'o discussed
and we ari'anged for new statements to be furnished, consequent

lon.
the
ces
the
sed
ent

upon the awHumption by the Dominion of tlio surphi-* debt of llic
hite ProvincH' of (':in:uUi. Th*' (question then came up of adding
to tbo (Uibt of the late l'i'Ovinc<> ol" ('aiiada, wbii'h in other words
is obliging the Provinces of (Quebec and Ontario to pay whatever
may be thus added. The first item is what is (julled '• The Upper
Canada Improvenieut Fuml." When the question came before
the arbitrators apjiointed under the 15. N. A. Act of 1867 to
settle the accounts between the two provinces and the Dominion,
1 presented a slatement of the ilcbt of the late Province of
Canada which was adopted by the Privy Council at Ottawa.
This statement showed the debt to be less than claimed by
Ontario by the amount of the said Upper Canada Improvement
Fund alluded to, Ontai-io claiming that she was entitled to certain
funds, the proceeds of certain school and crown lands in Ontario,
the amount to be added to the old ])rovincial debt, and these pro-
ceeds to be handed over to Ontario for distribution to certain muni-
cipalities interested for local ])urposes. 1 called attention to the
memorandum which T had laid before arbitrators in January
IStO, with the concurrence <jf the then leading advisers of the
Crown, and took the ground that said fund, under the order-in-
council, was to be composed, not of the amounts due by the pur-
chasers of said lands, but of those received by the Crown Depart-
ment during the existence of the trust. The lieceiver-General
under the Order-in-Council could set apart, as therein directed,
only the amount which he had actually received, if any part of
the chiini was to be entertained, Ontario claims one-tifth of the
sales of Crown lands from March, 1853, to July. 18(57, but the
Crown Lands Department seems to have credited the Consolidated
Revenue Fund with all collections made on such lands after 1861,
when the Land Improvement Fund was abolished. Lately the
Treasurer of Ontario submitted to the Dominion Government his
views on the (question, of which I subsequently received a copy.
This question being a legal one I presented a report of our inter-
view to the lion. Attorney-General for his consideration. The
interest the treasurer of Ontario had in this question was this :
to have added the amount demanded by him, upwards of -1? 100,000,
which Ontario and (^.uebec must re-im burse to the Dominion

Govcj'iiment, the whole iimount then going to cei'tain raunicipali-
tieti in Ontario, for their exc'liit?ive benefit. Another very impor-
tant question which arose was u large increase the Dominion
Government proposed to add to the annuities payable to Indians
under ccitain treaties entered into by them with the Government
of the late Province of Canada, under the name of "The Eobin-
sou Treaties." The ettect of tiiis would be to add about a million
of dollars to the debt of the late Province of Canada, to be paid
the Dominion by Quebec and Ontario jointly. On this question
I contended that the amount of the annuities was already paid in
the debt of Canada at about a million of dollars, subject to the
Dominion's risk of increase or deci-ease of the number of
Indians; that it was so tixed in 1870 by the consent of
the Dominion Govei'nment and those of Ontario and Que-
bec, and that the Dominion Government had no right to
increase the amount without the consent of the two Pro-
vinces; that if any increase had been made previous to 1873,
it would have been wiped off by the parliament of Canada when
the surplus debt of the late province of Canada was assumed, and,
besides, it was understood and agreed by the three governments
that Ontario and (Quebec should have the right to examine and
pronounce upon any proposed increase to the debt of the late
province of Canada, as they (the two provinces) had to pay it,
and this had been acted upon by these governments for many
years past. I, therefore, objected, as did the treasurer of Ontario,
to opening this question again. It was contended by the Domi-
nion authorities that if any just debt of the late province of Can-
ada was still unpaid, that they were liable for it, and we (the
provinces) must submit and pay back to the Dominion. The
pretensions of the Dominion government that cei'tain Indian an-
nuities had not been paid, and Avere now claimed, adding in-
terest for nearly thirty years, not on the amount originally stipu-
lated, but ui)on an increase from about $1.50 a head to $4 per
head, are absolutely untenable in my opinion. The deputy
minister of Indian atlairs came befoi'c us and endeavored to explain
the reason why those increased annuities should be paid, viz. :
that they had not been paid for years, but lately demands having

been made by the Indians for tii-rcars and inc. jiised amounts, the
Dominion govei-nment had allowed $-4 per lioad for yeais. and
chai'ged interest thereon for many years without consulting the
jirovinces intere.sted ; these amounts, it was contended, formed part
of the sui'plus debt of the late province of Canada, which the pro-
vinces of Ontario and Quebec must make good to the Dominion.
One circumstance not to be ovei-looked is that these annuities were
charged upon a larger number of Indians than mentioned in the
treaties, and capitalized at 4 per cent, interest instead of 5, thus
increasing the amount of debt chai-geable against the pi'ovinces
named by 25 pej" cent., the amount now claimed being nearly a
million of dollars more than in the amount of debt as concurred
in and established in 18*70. I also took exception not merely to
opening the question ot'the surplus debt of Oanada by adding the
Indian annuities, but also took the ground that the province of
Quebec had no interest in the question further than seeing that
Ontario had no injustice done her. for the following i-easons: — The
legislature of the late Province of Canada took fi-ora the crown
lands of the Province of (Quebec a large quantity of lands and
made reserves for the various remnants of Indian tribes in this
province, for which no comjiensation was given lo Lower Canada.
True, a grant of lands was set apart, seemingly for Lower Can-
ada's benefit, but nothing was ever done with these lands, which
still formed part of the crown domain, and were administered
and sold, as much foi- the benetit of Upper Canada as of Lower
Canada up to coufedoiation, whei'cas in Upper Canada lands have
been purchasol f' lUi the Indians, which tlie late pi-ovinco of Can-
ada was Loa..(i to pay for by annuities in perpetuity, and paid otit of
common v- ds until 1867. When confederation took place, then
these iandh ut came the property of Ortai-in in the Confedera-
tion Act 18 'J7, by section 109 it is declartu tnat "all land, mines,
minerals a id royalties belonging to the several Pi-ovinces of
Canada, Nv)va Scotia and Xew Brunswicic ai the union, and all
the sums then due or payable for such la'ids, mines, minerals, or
royalties shall belong to the -several I'l'ovinces of Ontario, i^>uel>ec.
Nova Scotia am New IJrunsw!' k, in -viiicii the same are situate
or arise, subject to any truai ijxibt.ln^ ;u respect thereof, and lo

any interest other ihiin that of the Province in the same." It
neemed to ine, and 1 urged strongly that the words " subject to
any trust existing in respect thereof and tf) any interest other
than that of the Province in tlie same," could have no other mean-
ing than thai all claims of thii'd parties whether of individuals,
corporations or Indians, must be mot and liquidated by the Pro-
vince upon whose lands thus given to it any trustor claim existed
in flavor of third parties at the time of confederation. In t/ j
Indian treaties referred to, it is stated that the annuity guaran-
teed to the Indians might be increased to one pound cy. per head
provided the value of the lands thus ceded by the Indians to the
Government would warrant an increase, or at the pleasure of the
(jroveromenl. This shows that a trust was created on these
lands and the amount payable from the proceeds of the fian;-
might be increased from time to time. The supposition '■ * Lie-
tension of the Dominion Government that the value of the lands
and the returns from them justified an increase in the amount of
the tmnuity per head led to the increase proposed by the Dominion
Government, and formed the basis of their calculation whereby
the surplus debt of old Canada should be largely increased for
Ontario and (Quebec to pay.

I should mention here that the treasurer of Ontario did not
allow that the annuities to I ho Indians for lands ceded to the
Government of ( 'anada were a lien or trust on the lands ceded,
and moreover that taking into account the expenditure made
in ordei- to o])en u[) those lands for settlement by the late
Province of Canada and by Ontario, tJic ditference between
exj)enditurc and re^'cijits would not Justify any increase of
annuities, and further that the census of the Indian tribes
shewed that the Dominion Covernment had no right to claim
lor so many Indians uh they had against the land referred to. I
am convint ihI that the Dominion has no right to go back upon
the settlement of the Indian ajinuily ([ucstion, the amount having
been fixed by the tlu'ee (Jovernmenls and included in the estab-
lished amount of the surplus debt o^' the kite Province of Canada
yea I's ago, and further that in any case the Province of (Quebec
should not bo obliged to pay any sum whatevei- with renpoct to

reen
of
iheti
liim
]
|)ori

|:ib-
idii

tho increased claim on behalf of the Indians, but that if this in-
creased claim is imposed by the Dominion. Ontario should
and must pay tho whole. The pretensions of Ontario that,
although the whole of the proceeds of tho sale of the lands
mentioned in said Indian treaties and the lumber dues thereon,
which are large, go to the protit of Ontario, Quebec is still
responsible for her share of the amount of debt to be added to
Canada, cannot be listened to for a moment and must not bo con-
ceded; it amounts in other words to this, that while Quebec
made a pi-esent to the Indians of large ([uantities of lands in
Lower Canada without compensation of any kind we must now
pay for Indian lands bought of the Indians, all the profits arising
fi'om which go to Ontario alone. This question is also before
the. \ttorney -General for his consideration. Owing to the absence
of the Dominion premier, Sir John A. Macdonald, the further con-
sideration of the question was deferred till another opportunity.
We discussed also the mode of keeping the accounts, and dis-
puted quite a number of items, some of which were allowed,
others postponed, and on the whole we made considerable progress
towards a settlement. The c(>m])()und interest charged us on any
balances which might h.'ive been against us Avas to l)e taken off.
The charge for keeping insane convicts from the penit;o7it,iaries
will be taken otf, and it is only fail- to say that the minister of
finance. Sir Leonard Tilley, showed every disposition to do us
justice, and took memorantlums of our objections foi- further con-
sideration. One (|uestion amongst others which came up foi- dis-
discussion was the position of the Montreal Turn])ike Trust, put
down in the B. N. A. Act, iSCt, as an asset, and awarded (»>iicbcc
by the arbitrators. The Dominion governmeni have been charg-
inir us with interest on certtiin debentures of that trust in their
hanils whiidi the trustees have failed to pay fi'om year to yeai'. I
am inclined to think that these debentures belong to tho Province
and not to the Dominion, and this (piestion is now under considera-
tion at Ottawa. 1 have, I feai'. wearied you, Mr. Speaker, and the
House by my explanations upon the settlement of the accounts
between the Domi lion and Ontario and Quebec, but the questions
alluded to are so important for oui* Province that I thought it only

[ ■
■

right to communicate uU I know about them ho us to aid whoever
miiy have to meet, them again, as they will have to be met, in order
that our interests may be protected and we obtain Justice and a
settlement. Arrangements were made for another meeting in
Ottawa to lurthor consider the settlement of the accounts pend-
ing, in the early part of January, but the ti-easurer of Ontario not
being able to attend, the meeting was jjostponed till some future
time. Our principal object was to establish a fair basis for settle-
ment with the J-)ominion. As to most of the items chai-ged against
us in their aceount, there can be little difficulty in deciding, in
fact many are already settled, and we could see no reason for
bringing i ) the account the proportion of the surplus debt of
Canada agu ' "he «vo Provinces when it had been wiped
.out in 1873. -i-- ■ 'he open accounts between Ontario and Quebec,
there will;, 1 think, be little dilficulty in arranging these. The
most important questions now between the Dominion and the
Provinces and between Ontario and us, are those I have alluded
to, of increasing the ilebt of old Canada both by Ontario and by
the Dominion, which if carried out will seriously affect our finan-
cial position, and every effort should be made to prevent such
additions being made either by the Ontario or Dominion govern-
ments, as I am convinced Quebec has just grounds in resisting to
the utmost the pretensions of both governments. (Hear Hear).
I have within a few days received from Judge Cassault the factum
of (Quebec presented by our solicitors before the arbiti'ators and
certain memoranda which I have not yet had time to consult, and
which 1 have no doubt will jjrove very useful to whoever has
further negotiations on these questions.

THE RAILWAY SUBSIDY.

In the month of .February the Hon. Premier and I were at
Ottawa on public business and took occasion to ui'ge the claim of
(Quebec to the payment of St>,<*^^' '^ "lils of subsidy to which this
Province is entitled foi- that part of the i},. M. 0. & O. liailway
between Quebec and Montreal, withhold last year, and also as to
certain reforms m ihe atlministratfon of justice so as to lessen the
cost thereof. This we did in order to show that we did not

acquiesce in the present state of things, and in liopes that oui' just
claims would bo allowed. Subsequent to our return from Ottawa
a memorandum respecting the railway subsidy was sent officially
through the Governor-General reiterating oiir demand for the
balance of the subsidy withheld from us, and also tbi- an increase
of the per capita subsidy upon the last census returns, instead of
the census of 1881, and that the amount should be raised from
eighty cents to one dollar per head. With regard to the balance
of the railway subsidy, that concerns the Province only, and is
justly our due; but wnth respect to the per capita 8ub^idy, that
question atTects ?11 the other Provinces as well as Quebec, as what-
ever increase may be made in the per capita subsidy to our Pro-
vince must equally be made to all the others. The documents
have already been submitted to the House and a resolution as to
the railway subsidy passed by both Houses of tiie legislature and
sent to Ottawa.

OUR POSITION AS A PROVINCE.

It has been shown that the deficit of last year is considerably
less than for quite a number of years past, and our statement of
Liabilities and Assets shows a gain of nearly two and a half mil-
lions during the past year, consequent on the legislation at
Ottawa.

I see no good reason to fear for our future as a Province. Wo
need and must have, to bring our linancial position into a satis-
factory shape, prompt collections of sums due to the Provioce,
still further retrenchment in our expeiiditure and strict economy
in every branch of the public service. The expenses of Legis-
lation might be considerably diminished without any decrease
of efficiency ; the printing ex})enses are by for too large ; masses
of returns are printed which we never read ; there are too many
employees about tiie Houses, and it does seem to me that there is
room for reform in our Legislation ex])ei\ses. The expenses of
the Civil service have been diminished considerably. The cost of
the Administrati )n of .Tustice is by far too large. Some years ago
when the office ( f Solicitor-tieneral was abolished, I took occa-
sion to deprecat j the doing away with that office. A Solicitor-

General who had the su])orvi^iou of onr shoi'irt's, prothonotarios,
high constables, bailills and other oiRcers of justice, could, 1 have
no doubt, save tliree or four times his salary in scrutinising the
accounts sent in and in preventing toi'ins of our C/riminal Courts
when not necessary for the proper administration of justico.
(Hear Hear). I don't know, Mr. Speaker, but what I am travel-
ling out of the record in alluding to such raatteivs, but I thought
no great harm could arise from calling attention to some methods
of curtailing unnecessary expenses.

1 shall now conclude my remarks with a few general observa-
tions, thanking you, sir, and this House, for the patience shown
in listening to what must have been tedious in some respects.
Let us look at what

EDUCATIONAL PROGRESS

ll.

has been mjidefor some years past in our Province. I take from
a speech y Mr. (/urran, member for Montreal Centre, the follow-
ing, which I have no doubt is correct. Mi". Curran said with
respect to education in Montreal :

" My friend, Mr. Edward Murphy, one of the School Commissioners,
" who acts jointly with the clergy, because there are both laymen and
" olerjfyinou on the Board, sends me this statement : — I send this state-
" iiKUit to show the progressive increase in school attondani;e. From 0,405
" in 1H77 it increased to 7,005 in 1S81 ; to 7,31() inlS82 and to 9,932 in 1884.
" This is the attendance at the (Commissioners' schools and those assisted
" by them. Theni are of course a irreat many othei-s indoi)endent of the
" Commissioners, but the report of the Commissioners shows an increase
'• in school atiendancc from 0,405 in 1887 to !),9o2 in 1884, or 55 puT cent.
" in scnen years, and tliat tlioso schools now under the charge of the
" Roman Catholic <'ommissioners ami other schools under independent
" management had prospered equally. Tim schools under the Christian
" Brothers showeil a similar rate t)f progress."

From a memorandum obtained from our department of Public
Instruction I find that in the year 1873-74 the Province paid for
Educational purposes ^812,802, in 1878-79, ^354,33(5; in 1883-84,
$351,51)0, and that in those years there was paid by local taxation
in 1873-74, $2,048,9i)l ; in 1878-79, $2,4U5,25U, and in 1883-84,

82,432,44*7. In the whole for these yearn, contrihutod by the
(xovernmcrit and hy local assessment, in 187H-T4, $L','5i)l,8r)3 ; in
1878-79, 82,819,58':-; and in 1883.84, $2,784,037. The niimbev of
schools and school-houses were in 1873-74 : school-houses, 3,482 ;
schools, 4,367 ; in 1878-70: school-houses, 3,948; schools, 4,791;
in 1883-84: school-houses, 4,974, and schools, .").()80, showing an
increase of school-houses in 1878-79. of 1,026, and in 1883-84, of
1,492, and of schools in operation an inci-ease in 1878-79, of 289,
and in 1883-84, of 713 ovei- the year 1873-74. As to the number
of teachers they were in 1873-74,5,830; in 1878-79, 6,283; in
1883-84, 7,296, showing an increase of teachers in 1878-79, of
1,013, and in 1883-84, of 1,4(]6. The number of pupils attending
schools was, in 1873-74, 229,50(5; in 1878-79, 242,383, and in 188.3-
84, 253,079, showing an increase of school attendance in 1878-79,
of 10,696, and in 1883-84, of 23.573. Such facts as these are very
gratifying indeed and show that our people i-ecognise the neces-
sity of obtaining education for theii- children and are disposed to
do everything they can to secure it. (Ap)ilause). Another evi-
dence that the country is gradually prospering will appear from
the deposits in

THE SAVINGS BANKS.

The record of the City and Distiict Savings Bank, Montreal,
shows a steady rate of increase. In 1877 there were 17,203
depositors in that institution, with an aggregate sum on deposit
of $3,385,765 ; in 1883, the number of depositors had increased to
29,756, and the amount deposited to $6,212.630 ; in 1884 there
were 31,231 dejjositors, representing $6,328,093 of deposits, and
on the 28th of February last the figures gave a furthei* increase
during two months to 31,906 depositoi-s, with an aggregate
amount deposited of $(),396,600. These figures I give from Mr.
Curran's speech alluded to, and they show progress beyond (|ues-
tion, and what is to be noted also is that t he average deposits are
about $200, showing that the poorer part of our population are
laying up something for a rainy day if it should come.

From a statement kindly furnished me by the manager of the
Savings Bank Jranch of the Union Bank in this city the same

: #

satisfactory result is shown as to the deposits there. In 1882
there wore 2220 depositoi-s, with deposits to the amount of
$(520,891 ; in 1.SS3 there were 2,280 depositors and deposits to the
amount of p'M/M]^, and in 1884 there were 2,280 depositors,
with deposits amounting to $6G5,018, an average of nearly $300
to eacli depositor.

In the Caisee d'Economie de Notre Dame de Quebec we find
equal signs of prosperity. From a statement kindly given me I
obtain the following. I give only tlie past five years. In 1880
there were 11,15.'5 depositors, with $2,360,241 deposited ; in 1881,
12,053 depositors, and $2,634,495 deposited; in 1882, 12,951 de-
positors, and $2,915,434 deposited ; in 1883, 11,938 depositors, and
$2,690,575 deposited; in 1884, 12,910 depose rors, and $2,586,t77
of deposits.

F now give the amounts deposited in the Post Office Savings
Bank :

Amount of deposits June 30th, 1884 $13,245,552.64

. " June 30th, 1879 3,105,190.80

Increase in 5 years $10,140,361.84

The amount deposited in all the savings banks of the Dominion
Government was :

On June 30th, 1884 $29,217,536.84

On June 30th, 1879 9,207,683.20

Increase in5 years $20,009,853.64

Amount of deposits June 30th, 1884 $29,217,536.84

," " June, 30tb, 1883 26,219,107.55

Increase last fiscal year $2,998,429.29

These figures, which cannot be disputed, show a state of things
highly satisfactory, and show that our country is rapidly increa-
sing in wealth, and that notwithstanding all the efforts of some
to cry down our country, and prophecy hard times and failures in
commerce, manufactures and agriculture, the country is pros-
pering rapidly, and our people have no reason to fear for our
future as a nation. We ai-e ])rospering and will prosper, I
believe, beyond our most sanguine expectations. (Applause).

I hope, Mr. Speaker, that I have not wearied you and the
honorable members of the House with these details. I consider
them important, as showing the sound financial condition of our
country, and the steady advance making in substantial pi'ospority.

There are other savings banks and institutions showing equal
prosperity, but I do not wish to weary the House with fiu'ther
statistics, and have given those merely as samples for the con-
sideration of the honorable members of this House.

Then again, another branch of industry particularly affecting
our farmers — the export of animals to England. I take from
one of our city papei-s of Monday last, a statement copied from the
report of the Minister of Agriculture, Ottawa, which shows the
importance to Canada of the cattle exports, and which is un-
questionably correct. It is said :

"The export trade of cattle from Canada, during the year 1884,
shows an increase over the pi-evious year, the total number being
61,843 cattle, against 55,()25 in 1883 ; but there is a large decrease
in the numbers of sheep exported, viz.: 67,197 against 114,352.

" The numbers shipped from each port during 1884, are as fol-
lows, viz. :

Cattle. Sheep.

Montreal 50,705 62,985.

Halifax 3,G11 30

Quebec 680 747

Entered at Montreal for Boston and Portland 6,757 3,435

**• ' • • ■" 61,843 67,197

"Which, taken at a fair valuation, represents —

61,843 cattle at $126 ; $7,730,375

67,197 sheep at SIO 671,970

Total. ...^ $8,402,345

Being an increase over last year of S 67,999

"In addition to the above, a considerable number of Canadian
cattle and sheep have boon taken to England via. Baltimore, on
account oftJie extraordinary low freights from that port, and con-

: > '

' ' ! ■

^ i;
j

i i

sequently are classed, on arrival, as American. They are, how-
ever, tieatecl as such, and are subjected to the compulsory slaugh-
ter clauses of the Contasjjious Diseases (Animal) Act,
"The growth ol' the trade since 1877 is thus shown : —

Ykaes. Cattle.

1877 6,940

1S78 18,655

1879 25,009

1880 50,905

1881 45,535

1882 35,378

18S3 55,625

1884 61,843

Another very gi-atifying fact is shown in the report of the
Minister of Agriculture with respect to the number of our
population represented as leaving Canada for the United States,
year by year. The statistics of the United States officials are not
reliable, and the secretary of the Minister of Agriculture clearly
shows their unreliability in the following:

" r think it is better to point out the leading fiict which is estab-
lished by the figures representing the total movement of passen-
gers /rom Canada and to Canada by the whole of the Grand Trunk
system in the east and in the west.

" The figures are as follow :

Sheep.

Swine.

9,509

450

41,225

2,078

80,332

5,385

81,843

700

62,404

75,905

114,352

67,197

• • • • •

Total outs from Canada to United States 210,941

Less — European passengers 9,010

Total net out 201,931

Total inti to Canada from the United States 206,616

Less — Euroi^iean passengers 1,778

Total not im 204,834

Net gain to Canada of diflerence ins and outs ,.,.. 2,907

' ' I have no doubt of the perfect truthfulness of these figures, the
details of which are appended hereto (marked exhibits A, B, C,

D, E, F and G). They were offieiully furnished by Mj-. T. B.
Ilawson, the traffic auditor of the Grand Trunk Railway and
thoy ai-o alwolutely destructive of the statement that Canathi can
have lost the poi)ulation by emigration to the United States
which is represented by the rig-ures in the United States table.
] believe, also, th. u they are equally destructive of the
theory of any appreciable emigration from Canada during the
year named. I mean net emigration— that is, the difference be-
tween ins and outs.

"If we test the figures at the two points of Sarnia and Detroit
by the figures of the Grand Trunk system referred to, wo have
the following results :

Net outs at Sarnia (Port Huron) 33 657

^O' Windsor (Detroit) 36 312

^ot^^ • 74,969

Net ins at Sarnia ;]1 ^n

do Windsor 39I338

Total 70749

Difference, showing net loss by Canada at the two ports
iiamed 4220

"And this is the real fact, to be set against the claim of the
Washington Bureau of 49,1-1:5 emigrants from Canada at Detroit
and Port Huron.

"I have to state that the methods of obtaining these so-called
statistics are of precisely the same character as those described
in my previous i-eports. I have, acting under your dii-ections,
taken pains to verify this flict. But 1 dovht if it is again worth
while to occupy your attention by a re (.o;> ted statement of the
same class of details.

" It is, however, a fact of sufficient importance to be again
pointed out, that the chief of the Unitetl States Bureau of Statis-
tics, at Washington, in the annual volume of reports and state-
ments officially published, does give pretended details respecting
all those so-called immigrants from Caniida, tis to their last place
4

y<i

■i 1 1

III

of residence, citizenship, age at three periods of life, sex and
occupation. The details of the occupations, as published in Mr.
Nimnio's report, I subjoin as an exhibit herewith (marked II).
We have hero artists, clert^ymon, denlists, hiwyers, doctors, bar-
•bers, bakers, weavers, fishermen, hotel-Ueepei-s, nurses, peddlars,
&c., to the numbers of the ti<jjurcs stated. And with r« to

such information, I have simply to remark that it could ouiy, by
any possibility, be obtained by a regular system of question and
answer, and registration of the facts obtained on the spot — a me-
thod wJiich would be plain to everybody who chose to observe it,
and particularly so to the subjects of the information.

" I have crossed repeatedly in the immigrant cars, for the pur-
pose of observation, but I have never seen anything of this kind
done, and 1 am assured by the Canadian Collector of Customs at
Sarnia, and other officials at that point, who are intimately ac-
quainted with the whole of the proceedings, that nothing of this
kind is done. .-. ., ......

" It follows, indisputably, that the pretended informatior "n the
details which I have stated can only bo set down by t me-
thods as those described by Mr. Avery, Mr. Irwin and utners
officially empl()ye<l in the United States service, as shown in the
evidence given before the Immigration Committee of the Can-
adian Parliament, in 1884 — that is, by a process plainly and un-
equivocally described by them as simple fabrication."

RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION.

Then again, look at our advance in railway construction, I
may say during the past ten years. The Province has aided
largely in the construction of the following railways, some of
them completed, others in the course of construction : —

The Levis and Kennebec, the International, the Quebec Cen-
ti-al, the Montreal, Portland and Boston, the Waterloo and Magog,
the tSouth Eastern, the Mississiquoi Valley, the St. Lawrence and
Champlain Junction, the Quebec and Lake St. John, the Mon-
treal and Laurentian, the Pacific and Pontiac Junction, travers-
ing with the Q.M.O. k (). Railway a large majority of the counties
of the Province. These subsidized railways being upwards of

610 miles in length, make up with the Q.M.O. k O. Riiilwuy and
branches of 359 miles, ii grand total of 9»)9 miles of i-aihvay built,
running daily to our groat centres of businesH, and all within the
comparatively Hhort period of ton years. (Cheers).

It is hardly ])0ssible to estimate the inci-oased wealth these
railways have added to our Province. Out lying districts brought
into tlirect and easy communication wiih our citie.>. enhancing
the price of farm produce, cheapening the cost to the farmer of
those necessaries he requires from the cities, and promoting and
encouraging all kinds of manufactures for the use and comfbi-t of
the whole community. Villages are springing up all along our
lines of railway, inducing the introduction of various industries
hoi-etof(n'e unknown in our Province. The value of real estate is
increasing year by year. The value of cattle, liorso!?, sheep, and
other animals of improved breeds — the \alue of all kinds of agri-
cultural implements of impi'oved kinds is increasing year by
year. The log house is givi!,g place to the frame building, well
finished, painted and ornamented. The frame buildings are giv-
ing place to houses of brick and stone. The old-fashioned log
stable and barn superseded by the large convenient mammoth
barn, finished off better than houses formerly were, and these
changes and improvements are to be seen in all parts of our Pro-
vince — noi'th and south, oast and west, and all consequent upon
the enterprise and public spirit manifested by the Legislature in
fostering and encouraging and aiding in the construction of rail-
ways alluded to. (Loud applause).

While it is true that our finances have become temporarily
embarrassed by such a large outlay, still it is only temporary,
and the general public, the whole Province, have u*ained a hun-
dred fold to remunerate them for all the outlay made.

THE BRITISH ASSOCIATION.

The visit of the members of the British Association of Science
last summer cannot fail to produce good effects in making
Canada known in Europe. The people of Canada, and especially
the people of this Province, did honour to our guests from
Britain, on the occasion of their late visit, and did honoui- to

themselves by their open-handed generous hospitality, mani-
fested to Kome of the most distinguished men from the
old country. The members of the Association will make
known the resources of Canada to the people at home,
which will induce many to come oat and make their homos
in Canada. Possibly the Western Provinces of the Great
West may receive the larger number of their immigrants,
but in settling and building the great grain producing part of our
country, we in the east will supply them with manufactured goods
of every description, and thus derive benefit from the influx of
population. (Cheers). The nations of Europe seem in an un-
settled state at present, England and France, from whence our
principal population came years ago are engaged, the one in the
Soudan and the other in China in foreign war, and there are
rumours of difficulties between other nations of Em-ope which
shew a restlessness and uneasiness that almost foreshadow trouble
between them.

In this country we have peace and plenty in all our borders,
and although there has been a slight depression in business affairs
for some time past, still it is only temporary, and the low price of
provisions is a great boon to the poorer part of onr population.

Wo have no need to envy any other nation either as respecte our
political insititutions, our civil and religious liberty, the proper
administration of our laws, or the diffusion of education among
our people. In this Canada of ours we have a goodly heritage.
Let us then each in our respective sphere, either as private citi-
zens or legislators, see that we do our part towards advancing our
country in material prosperity, in doing all we can to enact wise,
judicious laws, in seeing to their proper administration, in spread-
ing education amongst om* people to the utmost of our power —
thus doing our part in establishing our country in that righteous-
ness which oxalteth a nation.

The hon. gentleman resumed his seat amid loud and continued
applause.

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