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Mr. Foster — Mr._ Speaker, r think the | House will fully appreciate the difficult cir- cumstances which surround me in attempt- ing to speak upon this question. I think I feel as aeeply as any hon. member oppo- 'site feels the importance of this question, the importance of the issues which are involved, and of the consequences which will result from our decision. I also feel that the nobject ' presented to us is, in its main points, exceedingly simple; its salient points are but few, and these liave been so thoroughly (Jiscussed by the strongest minds in this House, on both sides of it— and that is a compliment to the hon. member who has just sat down, which I am glad to make — that it loaves me very little chance with the exception of going over most of the ground which has been travelled before. We nad, in the lirst place the very lucid and verj'^strong statement by the Minister of Railways dealing with this whole matter. KoHowing him, we had an equally strong and equally long statement by ,lhe hon. Leader of the Opposition, placing his side of the question Wore the House. Then, Sir, he was followed by the hon. member for Bichmond and Wolfe (Mr. Ives), who in a temperate, well digested and lengthy speech, in which I thought I detected some- thing of a malicious spirit as if he intended to dig into all sides of this question and thoroughly exhaust every possiole calcula- tion so as to try the ingenuity of those who might be so unfortunate as to come after kiin. When that hon. gentleman concluded the House was treated to a speech on this question by another hon. member who, in his ri.KVER, STRIKING AND ROLLICKING WAY, finding there was not much to hit in the question itself, struck right and left as each idea seemed to come out of the experience or incidents of tiie past. Then we had a «'.omparatively short but remarkably able and patriotic speech by the hon. member for Oardwell (Mr. White), who dealt with the question not only to thp amusement and interest of the House, but also to the edifica- tion of the country. 1 must not omit to state that the iion. gentleman was followed by the hon. momber for "JVIslet (Mr. Cas- grain), who with his" massive figures and logical presentation of|facts made tJiat same remarkable impression upon the House which he almost always makes upon it when he addresses it, and contributed his quota to t he elucidation of thia great subject. Then the House was treated to an hour or two hours disquisition by the hon. member for King's (Mr. Wood worth), not King's, New Brunswick, but King's, Nova Scotia, for whom I have somewhat of a fellow feeling. because we represent constituencies of the same uamo if not exactly of the same charac- ter. That lion, member laid the heavy hand of contribution upon all history, modern and profane, upon philosopliy, moral and otherwise, and exhausted the poets, both sacred, ancient and modern; and now. Sir, we have listened to the elaborate and vigor- ous and strongly put, if not altogether argu- mentative and pertinent arguments of the hon. member for Queen's P. K. I., (Mr- Davies). Sir, 1 was a little amused, 1 am still a little amus«d; he began by complain- ing very much that other hon. members had not the remarkable power of concentra- tion which he always exhibits, of omitting all outside issues and centralising his great power and strong reasoning upon the only issue before the House ana the country. He complained very much that some other hon, members had taken up the time of the House in speaking a long time on topics OT'TSIDE OF THE POINT AT ISS-Ui;, 4hd yet by the clock which faces me he spent one hour and five minutes before he came to the point at all, when he announced that lie was going to give strong and cogent reasons why this proposal should not be looked upon with favor by the House. Sir,^ the hon. gentleman had fault to Jind with the hon. member for King's, N. S,, because he commenced at Jerusalem and ended- at Longfellow's "Ship .of State." I could not help feeling, before the hon. gentleman had spent an hour or an hour and a quarter in getting to the poin^ that it was better to begin at Jerusalem and end at the. "Ship of State," than to begin nowhere aiiQ end at the same place. The hon. gentleman start- ed out with a vigorous attack upon the, ma- lignity displayed by this side of the House, and then with remarkable tnithfulncss he turned round to his own side of the House and administered to it a full slap on the forehead when he pronounced that malig- nity, a reciprocal jnalignity. We do not talk of lecipiocity between membei-s of the same family ; we talk of reciprocity as a means of communication between members- of different families and different nations ; consequently, if this malignity which he de- clares has been shown by hon. members on this side of the House is reciprocal malig- nity, his own side, by his own admission, must have as large a share as we have. The hon. gentleman talked a little while about Conservative want of patriotism, and tlien in a very dark and mysterious but remarkably knowing way he hinted that if the hon. member for South Huron (Sir Richard Cartwrighl) only wished he could give the House very interesting information as (to. some « ^• VKRV DARK AN'I» TKIC'KY WAYS of which he had had experieuce while a mciuber of the Conservative party. AVell. that is a cliaracteriatic, we know. You will always find when a man has not facts at liand and arguments which he can produce, lie will always siiy that if he desired lie could l)roducc them, and if thev were necessary they could bo brought forth. "Why did not the hon. gentleman in that long review of all Lhc i>icnics which had taken place from the weKtcrn coast of British Columbia to the farthest point of Cape Breton, give a single quotation from these speeches of my hon. friend from Cardwell (Mr. White j^in which were uttered those damaging and damning ^itHtemcnts with respect to this country, thereby displaying a terrible lack of patriot- ism ? It is all very well to say, in general terms, that such and such a thing could have been done, or has been done. I have often had a man come to me and make a great, big, large, general assertion ; but the only thing which was necessary to quiet and cow such a man was to take him by the button hole and say : "Sir, I want the bill of particu- lars," and you had him quite cowed when ^ou made that demand. It is easy to deal in general assertions ; any person can do that, but it is a difiicult thing to bring things specifically to a point. There are not many men, comparatively, who can do it, and I am Inclined to think my hon. friend from King's, P. E. I. (Mr. Davies) falls amongst the latter category. The hon. gentleman begged the indulgence of the House for read- ing from Hansard. I was glad that he did read from Haiiaard, and do not think he had any reason for begging pardon from mem- bers of this House for doing so ; in fact, I came to the conclusion that if the larger I)ortion of his speech had consisted of quota- tions from Hansard, it would have contri- buted quite as much to the #Iification of the House and ve/y much more to his own repu- tation than it^id. The hon. gentleman de- lighted in representing the Syndicate, or the Eailway Company, as being on their knees before this House and before the country. Sir, that is not an honest way of putttng the matter ; it is not an ingenuous way of plac- ing it. I do not know of any set of men who are ON THEIR KNEES ABJECTLY BEGGING alixable to the extent of five timt-s the amoun^^ and if you will ^ive me that loan I will finish the contract in two months in- stead of eight, and I ^vill pay you a percent- age on your money as large as you can get elsewhere." Would t!ie hon. gentleman be justified in stating to his neighbor that this contractor was^own on his knees, before him, asking for money ? I think not, and 1 take it that this is an exactly similar or nearly similar case in point. The hon. gentleman delights in representing this amount as a drain upon the treasury, and not having the fate of many hon. gentle- men on his side of the House in his eves, he indulges in precise prophecies. Sir, the precisencss of Vennor's prophecies amoynts to nothing beside his; Wiggins' snow storm fame has no chance of lighting a candle be- side the hon. member for Queen's, compar- ing the preciseness, the earnestness, and the certainty which they respectively predict. As he is equally precise as to the time; he does not leave himself much of a margin. He does not say, at some future time, or in a number of years, but in two years. In two years he says the company will be«» where ? They will be here; they will not be IMPORTUNING THE GOVERNMENT before Ihis Parliament. Let us take a i)ar- iiUel case. Let us suppose that the hon. gentleman who sits in his seat before me, smiling so complacently, should engage a contractor to build his Louse, that the con- tractor had started upon the house, that he hud made his plans and calculations for raising the mouey,but found when the house was three-fourths completed, that his plans had somehow or other not turned out as he had anticipated. Suppose he came to the hon. gentleman and said : "Sir, you see the amount of material I have; the amount of property I possess; I want an acjvance of money from you, as a loan,of so many thou- -sand dollars. I have property good and re- sVmewhere elie, but before this Houss, this Parliament, and for what? Asking them for a sum of money. And with what de- lightful precision the hon. gentleman states that sum of money; it will be exactly twenty-two and a half millions, not a dollar less or a dollar more. Now, sir,let me hold up before the eyes of the gentlemen present this prophecy. ' Let me ask my hon. friend from Queen's, especially, to jot it down in his note book, for fear he may forget, and if he and I live just two years from this 12th of February, 1884, we will meet some place, and compare notes with reference to this lecy. If I am not greatly mistaken, if had a reputation to lose, I would not care to risk it in such a reckless way as the hon. gentleman has risked his reputation today. The hon. gentleman, like two or three others before me, attacfi:ed my hon. friend from'Kichmond and Wolfe (Air. Ives), on a point on which my hon. friend's words probably led him to be misunderstood as conveying an idea which he did not wish to convey. It was this : that the Conservative party would lose their prestige, or, in other words,that it would be bad for the Conserva- tive party if these reselutions were not carried, and that, therefore, the Conserva- tive party must vote for them, not because it was good and necessary for the country, but because it was good and necessary for the Conservative party, and thus party con- siderations were placed above patriotic con- siderations. Sir, that, I apprehend, was not the intention of the hon. member for Rich- mond and Wolfe. What he meant to say was this : that the Conservative party in this railwav policy had a record which had gone before the country, and that record ^fi.hould not I)e fuUitied by their not cairvinc out, to the very letter, the idea yritli wiiicn th«y started, and with which they wont be- tbre the people. What was that policy? The policy of the Liaeral-Conservativc party naa been a railway, a railway on Can- adian territory, a railway completed just as (jnicklit as it possibly cm bjjlborapleted. In pursuJIce of that policy, in 1880 and 1881, thejr made a contract with the syndicate which ROUND THEM TO BUILD THK KOAD UV 1891. ^*ir,the Conservative party went to the coun- try largely on that, they relied on these terras and conditions, and the country took them at their word, and sent them back here with a majority of 70 to carry out that idea. I say that we have an honorable and honest fight to state, that the Conservative party has a policy and a record in this respect — a policy in favor of building^this trans-conti- nental line of railway as soon as it possibly can be built; and that the Conservative party, by the vast majority by which it was returned, in 1882, has been sent here, C)m- missioned to carry out that idea, and that :Jiey would fail in their record, fail in their duty to this House and the people who sent them here by such a majority, if they did not carry out that idea with all the speed and promptness compatible with safety and secur- ity. That is what the hon. n»mber from Richmond and \Volfe meant ; that is what hon. members knew he meant, and tliat is something which SHOULD NOT BK MISUNDKR9T00D or misrepresented. The hon. gentleman has ».sked a question and asked it with a great deal of eamestnessi He asks: "Has a single meeting been held in this country, in favor of this loan ?" The hon. gentleman knows that that is just the reverse of the way in which it should be put. When the people make no sign, what is the inference therefrom ? That they acfloiesce ; that they are in agreement with and favor the plan which is proposed. • Ever since this house sat, and it sat early, it has been befce the country that additional legislation would be had with reference to the Canadian Pacific Railway, and the idea has been mooted and sent abroad that that additional legislation would either make a provision for an increased out-and-out gift of a subsidy,or would take the form of a loan. That information has been before the country for a month or more. For nearly two months that idea has been before the country; tind yet I challenged the hon. gentleman to point to the record of a single public meet- ing which has been called to protest against the action of this Government. I say that is proof conclusive that the public miiul settled down to acquiescence in these proposals. Be- fore this argument can have a featlier's weight w ith tiie country or tliis House, the hon. gentleman will have to get up an agita- tion outside tlie party presfi, and show a spontaneous uprising of the people hen- and •there throughout the country in protest against these terms. It being ^i.T o'clock, the Speaker left the cliair. After Recess. Mr. FoSTEK. — In the remarks I was ad- dressing to the House, I was dealing with the new or salient points of objection thai had been raise«l by the hon. member for Queen's. I did not exhaust ail the points which were made and which were merely iterations or repetitions of those that had been made and largely an- swered in speeches which preceded. In the remarks which I shall now address to the House, I wish to speak first. Sir, of three broad, general fiicts, upon, which is based a necessity, as I think, for the position which we take with reference to this whole railroad question. I wish, then, to speak for a few moments of the question as it is presented to us in the Resolutions which are before the HoiLse ; and afterwards I propose, with the kind indulgence of the House, to take some notice of the points which have been raised and put forth its arguments why these Reso- lutions should not pass. In the first place, then, Avith regard to the three broad or gen- eral facts upon whicli, as I think, is ba.sed the railrojid policy of this party,as embodied in its latest phase in the Resolutions before the House. We often hear the remark, Sir, that a coun- try does not amount to much without a peo- ple. That is very true ; but I think it is equally true that a people never amounts to much without a country. I believe, Sir, that the material is not by any means the most important factor in the development of na- tional greatness, and tae UPBUILDINCI OF NATIONAL PERMANE1,CY. I believe, Sir, that there is a sentiment, indefinable, but very strong and very creat- ive, which is sometimes known by the name of patriotism, which is written as one of Ihe broadest facts Upon the history of the past, which is no less a fdct in the development of the present, and which no statesman and no deliberative assembly can aflTord to ignore. It is that feeling, Sir, whicli makes ui proud and confident of our own country, which creates within us a desire, an overmastering desire, to make it rival, and if possible ex- cel, any other country, which calls forth the best energies of a people to embody and realize that desire, which joins together dis- membered parts anc? diversities of opinion and of interest in order to attain the object desired, which throws its halo. Sir, of hoi^e and confidence over the darkest period of a nation's development, and which crowns seeming impossibilities with tri imphant success. This feeling. Sir, I believe to be a factor which is indispensible in the develop- ment of any people, dowried even with the richest materi-d resources,and a factor whicli has been proved over and over again in the history of the world, to have brought forth wonderful transformations, to have built up splendid and enduring nationalities out of elements which have been disjoint^, dis- united and surrounded with difficulties. If yoii, Si)-, and ihc lluiisc will j)iiril its development and embodiment that longed-for, wisned-for idea OF A UNION OF THESE I'ROVIXCES. I believe in the same way that, if all these different influences had chosen to pit them- selves against the attainment, against the opening up and joining to these Provinces of the North West Territory and the moro re- mote Provinces, they might have hindered and retarded it for a time ; but it was in the hearts of the people, and could only be hin- dered for a tune, it must reach its fruition and have its embodiment. In the same way, I earnestly and honestly believe that this same idea is as wann and deep and ear- nest in the hearts of the people, that the confederation of the four Provinces is not complete, that the confederation and joining together of every part of this Dominion is not complete, that it will not beheld to be eemplete, until the iron bands of a railway trans-continental and Canadian, shall join every part of this great Dominion together in the Donds of commercial and of social in- tercourse. Therefore, I was in favour of Confederation because it gave us a country, I was in favour «f this expansion to the. bonnds we now have, because it gave us a great an illimitable country, I am in favour, and cannot but be in favour, of the speedy and quick and certain construction of that '\vHich is essentially necessary to make us a united, and so a permanent, a successful,and a progressive people. So much then for these thoughts, these tnree broad facts which lead up inevitably to the policy whicli has been adopted by this pai'ty, and which is pro- pounded by the Government which this party has formed, which has been initiated by them, and in furtherance of which the Resolutions whieh we at present have before UB are being discussed. Now, Sir, when we come to this solid foundation, that a rail- road, a trans-continental road, is necessary for us in order to complete the idea of the unity and oneness of this country, THREE GREAT PLANS ARE PRESENTED or have been presented, to the people of this country. Tliere was, sir, the plan of 1872, which offeretl to grant r)4,70O,00O acres of land nnd $30,000,000 to a company for the building of the road. There was a secOROl plan of 1874, by which it was proposed t& graut $10,000 cash as a subsiciy per mile. 10,000 acres of land as a subsidy per mile, and 4 per cent, on any balance which wa* considered necessary to complete the dififcr- cut contracts, for the porioci of twenty-five years. In 1881 there was a third plan, which we are now ' discussing — to a certain extent — by which acoi^pany wofl to be given 125,000,000, 25,000,000 acres of land, anii completed railway to the anionnt of 128,000,- 000. I may state, sir, that v and a loan upon the other hand. Now, Sir, I, as an Independent member of tlii^; House Some hon. members — Hear, hear. Mr. Foster — 1 8uppofled,sir,that I sliouht have a general chorus of liear, hear, kom the opposite side of thtf House. I say to the hon. gentlemen opposite who are so prodigal just now with their liear, hear, that though it may be a most unheard of and un- thouj^ht of thing to them for a man to sit on one side of the House, and whilst he sup- ports with all his power, and with all his earnestness, the party of his choice on broatl lines of policy, it is still quite possible for him to make up his mind, as an independent thinker and investigator, upon every subject which dqes not come within party lines. I am supported in this opinion by what has taken place in this house this session. There has been more INDEPENDENT AND SOATTlCniNO VOTING on this side of the House by members sup- Eorting the Conservative party, than thei-e OS been on the other side. And so 1 say, as a man who supports a party and yet who does and will think inde- pendently, and conclude indepedently, I am bound to take this matter into my considera- tion and find out whether or not it is reason- able. Now, sir, what reasons did the com- pany give when they cametothisGovernment and Parliament. They said this : owing to hostility and hostile combinations at home and abroad; owing to shrinkage in values and a decline in the price of stocks; owinu,- to the difi^culty of realizing such large sums as are necessary to carry on tliis gigantic work, from lands which are, to a certain ex- tent locked up from a speedy realiza- tion, and which, if thrown upon the market would bring but ruinous and sav : we have prices, we come resources sufiicient; we want a loan; wc will pay you a fair interest; we will finish the road by the end of 1885; we ask your con- sideration as to whether or not our proposal is a reasonable one. Sir, the company does not come on bended knees before this House. This company comes as a, man would come walking straight on his feet, looking iip straight wit^ his eyes and saying to thia Government and Parliament: we have A I Mil CKUrO-iAI. TO MVivT, T i VOl'; wc aitk . til for a loan; wo will K^^'t^ you aa high a I te of interest ua you can got elie- whiini uiid even hotter; wo will place within yowr han'ln Huflioiont Hootaity; that in your pjrt of the bargain will ytu do it ? Wo will bo holped in certain particular!!; you will ho helped in certain other particulars; if you will accent our proposition, well and good; if vou will not, well and good; and wo (all book on the terms of tiie original contract. What I have to conclude in my «wm mind is whether theso are reaaonahre grounds or not. As to the flrit one. Haa there been hostility manifested, and have hostile combinations been entored into with respect to this company? I thiok that no hon. member will deny it; I do not think hon. members opposite will deny it. I call to mind that the hon. member for Queens (Mr. Davies), acknowledged that such was the ease, but he did not see any reason why, ii such were the case, the company should £0 whining around, aa ho elegantly and clss- aioally ex(«re8sed it. Then there was a hos- tile sjpirit. It was expressed in what way? It waa exhibited by hostile combinations of rival roads in the sreat stook markets of the world. It was shown in hostile articles which were written from this country to American papers, and in telegrams sent from this country to American papers, and in cablegrams sent to the Old Country. In these and a hundred different ways, the fact is as clear as the sun at noon-day that THtRK WEKE IIOflTILK COMBINATIONS, that there was hostility both at home and abroad, and that this hostility must have had and did have on effect on the securities %n^ assets of the company. Sir, is the sec- <5&d contention a reasonable one — that there was a shrinkage of values generally through- out the country and a demoralization and iail in the value of stocks. We have only to read tlie stock list, to take the most cur- sory glance at the conuneroial records of the world for the last eight, sue or four months, to establish the fact. Looking at these points I say, it ia a reaionable contention on the part of the company that they were pre- vented from realizing many of their assets by the demoralization of the stock market and shrinkage in values. As to the third contention, it is an eminently reasonable one. To meet the expenditure necessary, to ■raise the amount necessary to meect that ex- 'P«fiditure, and to raise the amount within a period of two years upon lands which are slow sales comparatively, and on stock for which there was no market at that parcicu- lar time on account of the demoralized con- dition of the market —it is a reasonable con- tention they urge that in these respects they have encountered difficulties whicli they had not reckoned upon when they made their calculations and tstimates years and months .ago. As an independent member, making up mf mind from data preseited before me, I cannot refuse to admit the contention that these are reasonable reasons, and that I am bound, as one considering the issuer involved, to give them my fairest and mutt impartial coniidoration. Apart from these oonsidora tions, the question narrows itself down to this: Is tliereanv great or important rooflou which commends itself to my mind, and which leads me to believe that it in better for the country's welfare to have the roa«i finishad in 188.'), rather than have the com S lotion postponed until 18111. That is the rst question I have to settle with myself. Mind you, I am in favor of the road an A MKANS TOWAUDS N.VTIONAI. U.MTV and national progi«ss. Mind you, I believe thin company have done exceediuuly well in the progress of the work ao for. lii-membec that I take into oonaideration, aa I ' must do, their contention that owing to the ciaoumstanoea to which I have referred they have been thrown out*in their oalculatiouii. The question for me to decide if) this: in there any counterbalancing advantage in having the road opened in 1880, sufficient to make us take upon ourselves to do what ia embodied as reasonable and neoossary in the resolutions before the House. I think I have settled that question, so far as to make me, at least, act in a certain way. One reason that it is better to have the road fin- ished by the end of 1885, ia because it is m the interottn of Canada abroad that such should be done. I know that what I am going to urge as a reason will bo called by hon. gentlemen opposite- a sentimental rea- son. I do not therefore refrain from .urging it. By the push and energy exhibited by this country, with its 4,600,000 of people, determining to do what, on the part of the country to the sovth, with its 38,000,000, waa considered a bold and daring enterpriae, Canada haa obtained a certain name and prestige among the people of Europe, and even the people of the civilized world. If a person advertised himself to perform some great athletic feat, and when it came near the time of performance, and when the spec- tators had gathered and the thought of the community was centered upon him, and if his previous performances had led to the conviction that he waa able to do that which he had set himself to perform, and h9 failed at the last moment, his reputation would be lost. Just ao in a similar, but in a larger and more important way, would the primtige and fame of Canada be diminished if we were to foil now in the prosecutian of this work. In hundreds of thousands of homes in England, Ireland and Scotland they are sitting round their firsides tonight talking about THAT PLCCKY CANADIAN DOMINION, which, with its 4,500,000 of people, has un- taken to weld all ita parte together by build- ing a railway 3,000 miles, in length. They are reading documents which have been scat- tered by this Govemmeirt, and by meana of this very some railway organization, and their thought and feelings, and sympathies, are being drawn out to this country of Can - ada as a field for immigration, and aa a country whose peoQle are full of energy, fyjll of enterprise, as shown by the very fact that tticy liav'o uodurtaUoii, ami proinUed to per- i form, this gigantic work, aud havo it tio- ' iihcd by lH8(i. Now, sir, aro theae promiten ! to to faikitied? Onoo lot thiit idea Im ovei- i thrown, andtliey shall assumblu afiain al-otit | tlicii' tirosiUoH and nay, ah! there has bovn a i faihiro over thero in (Canada; thoy undertook n\ori3 than thoy could carry out; they prom- iueil well, but they failed in performance ; and there go«H down tlio itrimiiijf, of Canada; tbor thould proceed because of the interest and the fame and tho credit of Canada in coun- tries abroad. But intimately connected with this is the great subject of immigration. I^o one doubts tlmt this very bnildmg and construction and completion of this trans- continental railway has been one of the best things which this country has put forward i» an attraction for immigration, iq all parts of the world fi-om which we draw eur immi- gration. It is no doubt a fact that the opening up of such an immense country by AN UNUKOKEN LINK OK RAJIAVAV, so that these people might have communica- tion with the Old Coantry, and have inter- : course in different ways with the outside world, has been of the very greatest import- •ance and utility in ittractmg immigrants into this country, and not only in attracting those who have already come over here, but in starting that spirit of desire, that spirit o^ looking foward, that spirit which saya: there i»tne country to which, if we change we shall change to; a spirit which is as seed sown in a fertile soil, wnicii will bring forth, OS year passes on year, its increasing harvest of immigration to this country. I believe that if today the Parliament of Canada should decide tliat this great work should stop and not be carried to its promised com- pletion, that it shall loiter along and hesitate till 1891, the immigration interests of this country wouU be sadly and importantly affected by that course of conduct. iSo, I am in favor of baring this work pushed tRrough by the end of 1885, for the sake of our immigration interests. There are rea- sons at home, too. One of the first is the Korth-West development. A gentleman speaking on the other side of the House aaid: cannot wc get into the North-West now? True, but we have to cross a foreign country. •Some lion, members. — No, no. Mb. Foster. — Hon. gentleman have not lived to the length of years to which they have lived, and felt the snows which have fallen on iheir heads, and seen tltc ice which has taken hold ot* river and harbor in all these .years, without knowiag that there is a large portion of tlio yeur in whiih it U impo«»sli)li> to csrry on thiit .>*|)€t>dpr and s-iife and unin.' tcrrupted communication, which we need for the purposes for *hich this trans-continentul railwuv is to be built. Sir, tlu-re is a .senli- inental reason whicli comes in, but it h a foroililc one. What would von think of unity of family life, what would he your in- terest in your home, if every time you got up from your breakfast table to ;;o (<> you. library, you had to {mws through apartments wiueli were owned and controlled by some other (lej-son ? Would you feel that you had a home of your own ? Would you feel the same love for itB roof? Aside from th." in- convenience which would l)0 inevitable, there would bo u taking away of tho feeling that it WOK your own homo, and that you were under your own roof. lion, gentlemen opposite may think that this is a very pleoi- ant thing, and they may smile almut it, but it has foite with me, aud with the ^leople ot' this c«iintrj»; it hus force, and it will hitvo force, in shaping OUR I'OI-UY ON THIS tjUEHTION. A person knows very little about railroading if he does not know that when a compan* has a line of ruilway 1,000 miles long away over there, and a line of railway 600 or 60t> miles long on this side, and between them thero is only a means of joining them by running their freights and pa-ssengers oQ a road which belongs to u different country, with hostile taritis, and with another sys- tem, and all tho jwseible inconveniences which may arise — 1 say a person know4 Itttle of railroading if he does not know, that the expense and inconvenience incident to that sort of thing is one of the strongest arguments that can be used to those jwople to obtain an independent, self-controlled, and through line of communication open for themselves. I say, therefore, that we have not an open means of commu.)ication, such as is at all adequate, from these older Prov- inces to the heart of the North- West terri- tory. I say we need that line, that the de- velopment of the North-West depends on it, that the number of immigrants we get there, the amount of produce which is raised there, the amount of minerals which is taken out from their mines, and all the vast . develop- ment of that country depend, more perhajw than we think, upon the speedy, continuous and uninterrupted communicirtion which shall take place between this part and that part of our country— this an older and stronger one, but that a newer one, and full of greater possibilities, and capable of the greatest amount of expansion. Our British Columbia development needs it. Sir, since our confederation With British (^olumbiit. that province HAS STAYED AWAY DVT BY 1T3ELF for al4 these years, with three-fourths, five- sixths, yes, ninetee#twentieths of her people strangers to us commercially and sociaUy, and is she to remain there uTitil 1891, with all the disadvantages which result from that isolation? But if we carry out this idea. 10 and complete tlie road by 1885, there are hix years in which British Columbia and all of its resources are opened to free course for the stream of enterprise which will riish in, aad the stream of trade and commerce which will rush out. Is that nothing for British Columbia— is it nothing to this Do- minion ? 1 hold that it is something to the provinces hj the sea, and that it is^ some- thing very important to the rest of this great Dominion which lies east of it. But, sir, our trade, our industries demand it. We are building a trans-coutinental line of rail- way, and do we not know that trade springs up in proportion to the facilities for trading? Sir, I want to have it as thoroughly impress- ed upon my mind as I possibly can, that conditions differ now from what they were in the old time of pioneer settlement in this and other new countries. Today people rush in where there are facilities for rushing out as well as there arc facilifies for going in. They follow the course of the railroad ; and with reference to branch lines, I main- tain that if the main line is thoroughly fin- ished and equipped by 1885, instead of 1891, yoa will have a far 'arger number of branch lines built by the end of 3 891 than you possibly could have if yeu carried the building of the main line through all those years until 1891. iSome hon. gentlemen are very anxious to have branch lines built. The hon. member for South Huron (Sir Richard Cartwright) declared that he believed it would have been better for the country and the North- West if this railrO'id had stopped at Winnipeg, and the people had been iiUowed to build branch lines west of Winnipeg. Brau'ih lines where, pray? Why, each one of those branch lines would become a main line. What use is a line of railroad that does not run into a market centre ? Those branch lines would HAVE TO RUN TO Wi>;NIPEG at least, and make connection with the main line. So that the building of the main line must be antecedent to the suocessful.continu- ous and rapid building of branch lines. I believe the interest of our own country, the interest of our trade and industries in the eastern Provinces, demand that this line of communication should be opened up. Sir, what has been accomplished in the last five years? There has been developed and open- ed up a teide between our eastern industries ;md British Columbia and Manitoba; and to- day no inconsiderable feeder for the indus- tries of the eastern Provinces is to be found in the population which is producing from the lands and from the mines of those western parts of our newly opened territory. Sir, if this line is put through by 1885, these industries will not be hartned. They will feel the impulse. They will then be able to send their wares through without any inter- ruptions in the shaj^of bonding or of hostile larifis, through the whole heart of that country and to send on to British Columbia what is necessary for the j)cople of that I*ro- vince. f Ijelieve that our own industries will not U. injured, but, on the contrary,will be very much helped by -the speedy con- stiiiction of this road. These, sir, are the reasons, which amongst others, induce me to favor the completion of this road by 1885, rather than have it set back until 1891— that is, provided we think we can reasonably do it,. Now, sir, I wish for a moment to look at the nature of this loan. What is it? The company come and ask this Parliament for a loan of $22,500,000. Recollect that we must argue upon the idea that this is a bona fide transaction. Bat someone asks, what about the 17,380.000, part of which has been post- poned vvX\\ 1888, and the rest of which is due in 1888. What about it? It is no liability to this country until 1888 ? and IP THE COMPANY FULFIL THEIR PART of this agreement, which we believe they will, it will not then become a liability to this country, becatise it will then be paid. That IS one of the conditions of this agree-' ment. So that the loan is this— $22,500,00(> to be paid in 1891, and a contingent loan of $7,380,000, which is pnly contingent upon the possibility or the probability, however you may choose to regard it, that in 1888 the company will not be able to pay that amount. Now, sir, for this loan the company agree to pay 5 per cent, interest — a better rate of in- terest than we can get elsewhere — a rate which is greater than that at which we borrow. So that, if this is a bona fide trans- action — and we must argue it ppon that line —we are to loan $22,500,000 at 5 per cent., and we sfre to have this percentage paid to us half-yearly. Now, then, the second great question whicli oomes to my mind for con- clusion is this : Granted that it is better to have this road built by the end of 1885; granted that we are able to provide the loan asked for, is the security sufficient ? And until I can convince myself ^p^ith all cer- tainty, so far as certainty is possible, that the security is sufficient, I, sir, would not vote for these resolutions. One moment, then, Mr. Speaker, while we take a glance at the nature of the security. In the first place, we have a railroad of some 1,131 miles of main line, tjie construction value of which is $23,078,929; we have 269 miles of branches west of Callander wortli, at construction value, $3,759,793; we have expended on improvement of the line west of Cross Lake, $353,606; we have roll- ing stock, plant, lake steamers, and the like, $6,870,046; and we have material and sup- plies, less the advance of rails, $4,025,604: making a total of $38,087,977. This is -the amount in actual cost value of the line we>-t of Callander, which is to be placed in our hands as part security. In addition to this, there is east of Callander 457 miles of exten- sion main line and branches,$3,27 0,351; roll- ing stodt, worth $900,000; shops and machin- ery, worth $516,032; tools and machinery, $352,230; real estate for termini, worth $390,790; nisiking a total of $5,420,403, the value of security east of Callander. If we add these we get a total present pany, 11 ! contrarjr,wilI speedy con- ,Bir, are the induce me to road by 1885, itU1891-thfU isonably do it. !nt to look at tisit? The rliament for a \ that we must a bona fide :b, what about las been post- f which is due 8 no liability lEIR PART believe the;/ a liability to then be paid, f this agree -■ -$22,500,00() i^ent loan of tingent upon ity, however It in 1888 the that amount. )any agree to r rate of iu-* here — a rate t which we no, fide trans- >on that line 1 5 per cent., tage paid to second great lind for con- is better to nd of 1885; '^ide the loan ient ? Aud. ith all cer- ible, that the lid not vote ment, then, lance at the ret place, we iles of main f which i.s miles of er wortli, 9,793; we of the line 5 liave roH- id the like, 1 and sup- $4,025,604: rhis is -the le line we>-t need in our ion to this, ?.s of exten- 0,351; roli- id machiu- nachinery, ini, worth !0,403, the If we add BAILROAD SECURITY OF |43,517,370. That is the actual value at present of the se- curity placed into the hands of this Govern- zaent for the loan asked. But I am not un- aware of the fact and I ana alive to its im- portance as well, that this security is of such nature that it appreciates with every dollar the Government pays out to their call of the loan which has been stipulated for. .That, with me, weighs as an important point, and I believe it weighs as an important point with this House. Of the loan of $22,500,000 which this Government is asked for, $7,500,- 000 go for floating liabilities and $16,000,000 are to go into the road. There is besides the subsidy yet to be paid which the company ownH, which we have guaranteed the. com- pany, by the contract of 1881, and which, if they carry out their contract is no more ours than a flection ^f land in the moon is ours. That $12,710,788 has also to be paid out and applied to the construction of the road,mak- ing a total of $27,710,788 to go into its con- Ktruction. Now, my point is this: The very moment we can float this contract and make Aem the loan of $22,500,000, we have the present value of the railway worth $43,517,- 370. TheGovemment hasto see that everv dollar of the $27,000,000 that they pay to the company is represented by actual construc- tion of the road, so that when the two years have past, and the end of 1885 has come,and all this loan and subsidy are paid to the com- pany, we will have an actual railroad value of$27,710,788toaddto the other $43,517,- 370 as a gross security for the payment of the loan. That is we have a security in a railroad whicl^is not a diminishing but is an appreciative security, and which grows by the amount of every dollar which is paid over of that loan and that subsidy into the hands of the company. That gives us,at the end of two years, a railroad security worth, in construction value^ $71,228,158. But that is not the onl;^ security we have. We have also the security of the land amounting to 21,240,600 acres. , Against this 21,240,600 acres of land handed over to the Government as additional security, there is a lifn of $1,- 123,125, which leaves, if we can TAKE THE VALUE OP THE I.^ND at the the price which has been already re- alized for what has been sold — $2.36 an acre — we have a balance of some $49,019,795 re- presented to us in worth of lands placed in the hands of tliis Government as additional security. That is, we have in railway and landed security, at that rate of calculation, !SI 20,247,953. Is that sufficient security for a loan of $22,500,000 and a contingent loan of $7,380,000, which never will be called for if this agreement is carried out. Is a secur- ity of $5 for every dollar that is loaned con- sidered to be sufficient security ? There is another point which adds greater force to this — will that railway property depreciate from this till 1891, supposing it runs so long ? WSl it depreciate in value between this and 1885 ? No, sir; it is constantly appreciating in value. The railroad property which is represented in the equipment aud rolling stock of the road is kept and must be kept up to its level, and can be kept up to 4ts level, bedksc it has a paying^ traffic. It is therefore a security that will not depreciate but appreciate in value. How is it with reference to the lands ? I have calculated these lands at the rate of $2.36 per acre. Does that calculation seem to be too high ? I think not. I think we can test it very well hj tlie amount whicli has been already received for what has been already sold, and that is at the rate of $2.36 Kr acre. I think, however, we ean take a tie more in argument out of analagous roads. I go over to the Union Pacific road and I find that its lands sold, from 1880 to 1883, at from $4.28 to $4.82 an acre; I find that the Kansas Pacific lands sold at from $4.03 to $4.93 an acre; I find that the sale- of the Central Pacific lands averaged, since 1870,$4.85 per acre; I take the Northern Pacific, which is more analagous to our own road, because it has the element of newness to a certain extent, and their lands, in 1882, sold for from $2.60 to $3.60 per acre. Now we have this fact that the lands already sold of the Canadian Pacific Railway have aver- aged $2.36 per acre; that sales of lands on analagous roads averaged from $2.60 to $-3 per acre in round numbers, and I think I nave fair ground for the contention that the remainder of those lands of our road will Ijt' WORTH AN AVERAGE OP $2.36 PER AC;RE at least. Will these lands depreciate or appre- ciate in value? They must appreciate in value every year, on account of the increased im- petus which is being given to buying and selling them, so that the value of real estate will creep up, especially within a certaiii distance of thp great line of railway, and these lie within that distance. To my mind, these is no question that the security offi?red for the loan asked is amply sufficient. If it comes to be a fact, if the possibility ever be- comes a probability, and that probability ev^r merges into a fact, that the company makes default and is not able to carry out its obligation, I, as an humble member of this Parliament, will not be sorry to see so valuable a property fall into the hands of the Government and the people, at so small a price. It would be a good thing for the country and a bad thing for the company, after the expenditure of all the e'nergy and capital they have put into this gigantic enterprise. There is one other consideration I will trouble the House with, in reference to this. Is the road, provided it falls into our hands, going to be a dead weight ? or will it be a live and realizable security? That is, supposing this road were finished tomorrow, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and the Company made default, and it came into our hands, would it be a bill of ex- pense or a means of income to us ? That is a very important point, because upon that rests in part the value of the security in the contingencv that the Coirfpany shall make default and that the property shall conu- 12 into our hands. "Whsrt have we to s:iy ui reference to this ? Will the road be a dead security oiui living ?»nd paying security ? We have mat three things* to go upon. We have ex'perienc* in the first place. What is that experience ? In 1882, the gross receipts ef the Canada Pacific Railway were $2,449,- 824. In 1883 thuy were $5,420,913; and the net of nine months' trafBc comes to pretty NKAKLY A MILLIOII OP DOLLARS. I tliink that, so far as the road between the Kocky Mountains and Port Arthur, added on to the road between Algoma Mills ind Sudbury Junction and Montreal, is concern- ed, it settles the fact conclusively that that portion of the road at least is a paying property and will give a net earning over and above all expenses. We have only to ask ouradves thb question : whether, when that line of communication between Sudbury Junction and Port Arthur, around the north of Lake Siiperior,is filled in,and wlien the gap across the the Bocky Mountains to Kam- lo«ps is fiUed in, and the whole trade of the couatrv has a chance to extend and grow upon this line,we think,in the light of the past experience of the road, this vrill be a paying road.or wiM involve us in expense ? I believe it will pay for its running and give a profit in net earnings every year. Have we anything to back up this contention ? Yes, we have the analogy of the roads I have mentioned before. Take the Union Pacific, and its net earnings have risen from $5,0(X),000 and odd in 1874, to $7,000,000 and odd in 1879, and, after the consolidation, from $7,000,000 and odd in 1879, to $12,000,000 in 1882. Are the lands and the country and the capa- 1)1111103 of the country through which our Toad goes so infinitely inferior; is the extent of country that is to be traversed which gives nothing to feed the line wiUi traflic so infinitely greater in our own country ,that we can hope for this analogy to have no force and weight when applied to our own road ? I believe the reverse is the case. I believe the capacities and capabilities of our own lands through which our road runs; I believe the lesser tract of barren and unproductive country which cannot feed the line of travel; I believe the shorter Hne following the meridian between the centres of traffic on the east and the centres of traffic upon the west, are immeasurably in favor of our line, and I believe, Sir, that if the before mentioned line shows such an increase in gross earning xs it has, our own line may safely be assert- ed to be beyond the possibility of doubt and reasoning by analogy, a line that will pav its way and LEAVK SOMETHING TO THE NET. Take the analogy of the Central Pacific. jIn 1871, the net- earnings were $5,000,000 and odd; in 1882, they have risen to $8,000,000 and odd. Take th'" Northern Pacific, and in 1882 the tijss earnings were $5,000,000 and odd, and in 1883 they were $9,000,000, and a little more. Takiii| all this into con- sideration, I say the conclusion of the argn- , .,, I , ttf the country meut from analogy will be lliat uiir road rot* fur loanii wMl not be a dea^ security, but a paying ioKent loan w ^"ul888. Uklng id the peroeo ilieye thattl M that was sa I, approved ramed and tl arge majorit} and constantly increasing paying investment. Then we arc to take the element of proba bility in. I started to make a calculation just about the time the Speaker took hi,s Chair. I am exceedingly sorry, looking at the country's advantage and the enlighten lyent of this House which would have beenpight of poijsible, that flie Speaker took his Chair a.s early as he did, before I had an opportunity of comj)leting that interesting calculation; but I will give you the germ of the calcula- tion, and lion, gentlemen can work it out themselvoM. I said to myself, is it too much to ask, is it too much to think, that, during the next ten years, we shall have at least 50,000 people yearly thrown into our North West ? Does that appear reasonable to the members of this I^ouse, t^at, during the next ten years, an average of 50,000 people a year will enter that country ? Does it appear reasonable to say that,' of that 50.000, 40,000 will belong td the agricnltural classes ? I believe it is not unreasonable. In it unreasonable to say that, of these 40,000, one out of four will hold a farm; that i3,that out of that number of people, there will be 8,000 farmers, and that each of these will bring under cultivation twenty acres of good grain lands each year ? If you take that, and put it on the rate of progress, and count it up for ten years, you will be surprised at the vista it opens up of productJon,accelerat a DC ion who out uid vo'r< m BUcli term*, a lesta, u taavinir ,nd will approve >e(ore the polls Now, I will aal ew moments wl niv were the pi ind the proposlt irought before t approval, but I cnary. I bek.e n iBv«elf. I kn he House waa fi if the Houw. or laid to myself, it ihrown upon tb; will carefully < ible can, the ar vho are oppotfc ;ood graundi fo o take the onus lir, I listened ei er of Railways, id I listened w he hon. leader < ipposite case, ai .Ions which are extraot from tl nember for Wee last I did ni ing and increasing production, which will ^ve read that feed the line of traffic, and develop and make prosperous a trade of the dimensions of which we today can fq^m no actual — can scarcely form a probable — estimate. S« I believe in the prooabilities. Facts showing that today the road IS PATIRO AS FAB AS ITia BVIUT, probabiliUaa leading as to believe that a larfce inoreMO will take place in the prodnetireaen of the sell which will form m baaia for trade in the f ntare, I think we are altogether wittna the mark when we conclude that that line of road, once boilt, will not be a loea to whoever may liappea to ow^ it, bat will be a mevis of inoone and a scarce of profit. Therefore, wiiea they come and ask for a loan of $22.500,000,aod oflfer us seoaritiea worth $141,247,953— becuKne I add the $35,000,000 of ateck, at the rate of 60 per cent, which will make $21,000,000—1 believe the secority is ample. I beUeve they come ia an honoarable and manly way and Bay, we want a loan which you can give better than others ; we offer seourities which we woald not like to give into the hands of any other; we make the bargain for mutual advan- tage, and we trust for mutual benefit to Um two parties concerned. Now, sir, that ezhaosCa about the line of tbonght that I conducted with myself, and brings me to this result; tltat ic is a foregone conokision with the people,and a necessity of this ooantry, that the line of trans-continental road shall be bnilt, that the Company, having proceeded so far with unex- ampled posh and energy towards the comple- tion of that road, and having been involved in these temporary difficulties, if such you may call them, are reasonable in coming t>efore ne and in asking aa for a loan which shall aocrae to the mntaal advantage of the company and onsecutive tim< think no hon. i ir on the other i tot given it an a U that it deaen lesiie of finding here werfc any i (nlnst the resol rtiatdoIfiRd? if bringing up b ions that have 1 ion. rcntleman peech with debi >een 8KTT iDd settled by tl tythisParllame great many th tany more thin] hat he was cui ya, were quest! lad DO more to i km which Is no pon Bacteria h' be first place, t ompaey comini lir, we would al bould never ha e-arrangement, fe would have I heir contract, a be point to be i rhether we like %at was the pr I lor us to gri did not want ion. gentleman indicate. He sent over the ft d in years gone cntlemen, final ame back to ui had good gro rument, and tt unt, because t •in through th our road tliat but ayinginvestmeut ement of proba ke a calculation peakcr took hh sorry, looking at the enlighten }f thu country: and I, for one, am prepared to etefor loaning the $22,500,000 with the con* a paying ingent loan which may ponibly come apon ns u 1888, taking the nonrity which is o£Fered os md the percentage they promiie to pay; and I Mlieye that tlie country outside,which, deapita Jl t^at was said against that contract in 1880- il, approved of it and seat back those who ramed and those who ratiiled it with suob a arge majority, looking upon that road in the vould have beenpight of » necessity now as then, will regard ook his Chair a.s " ~ " d an opportunity ting calculation; of the calcula- in work it out lyself, is it too to think, that. wb shall have at hrown into our ppeur reasonable ise, t|iat, during rerage of 50,000 it country? Does ly that,, of that d the agricnltural unreasonable. In, of these 40,000, farm; that ia,that e, there will be 1 of these will nty acres of good you take that, ogress, and count be surprised at duclion,accelerat- ition, which will ad develop and the dimensions 1 no actual — can -estimate. S* 1 . Facts showing IT IS BDII/r, slieve that » large lie prodaetiTeiieas baaia for tr*de tn altogether witlnn I that that line of a loss to whoever iriU he a mevia of 1. Therefore,wiMa of922.500,000.and L.247,95S-beoaaae )ck, at the rate of ke $21,000,000—1 'm. I (Mlieve they I manly way and in can give better arities which we the hands of any for mutual advan- aal benefit to the sir, thatezhanata that I conducted this result; that th the peopl«,aad ', that the line of be built, that the so far with twax' rards the com[ri». ; been Involved in , if such you may coming twfore na rhioh shall aocme the company and i; hon who out this through In this Parliament, vers FOR I'lIK gPBBDY COMrLKTION m such terms, as having only carried out ibeir be- tests, as baviniT' done what was ntven them to do, md Will approve of their action when they next come >efore the polls to ask the suffrages of the people Now, I will ask the indulgence of the House tor a 'ew moments whilst I present another thought. Not nly were the propositions made by this company, ,nd the propositions entertained by the Governmbnt, irougbt before me as a subject (or investigation and approval, but I tboufibt that something else was ne- »saary, I beKeved that wisdom did not reside eolely n myielf. I knew that human nature on this side of he House waa fallibl' as Is human on the other side if the House, or as human nature is generally; and I *id to myself, it is possible that new ll|;bt may be iirown upon this qutstion, and I will watt and listen, will carefully observe, I will weigh, as far as I pos- ible can, the arguments of those hon. Kentlemen vbo are opposed to this measure, and if they give roe ;ood grounds for rejeotlDK this proposal, I am wtUlnir o take the ontis and responsibility of rejecting it. So, lir, I listened earnestly and atteutively to the Hiuls- er of Riilways, who expounded this master ts us, nd I listened with an equally earnest attention to he hon. leader of the Oppesition, who made out the opposite case, and who contended against the resolu- Aons which are placed before us. Now, Si^ what did extract from the long and able speech of the hon. nember for West Durham ? I listened to it from first last I did not content myself with that, but I ve read that hon. gentleaian's speech over three onsecutive times since I received it in the Uanmrd. think no hon. gentleman on this side of the House, ir on the other Ade, will be able to say that I have tot given It an attention And an Urvestlga* ion equal to 11 that it deserves at my hands; and I did It with a Icslre of finding oat what were the stroni; points— it here wer6 any strong points— which might be urged gainst the resolutions before the House. Well, Sir, rhat do I find ? I find this : that, with that facUity < bringing up buried issues and points about ques- ions that have been settled over and over again, the ion. pcntleman occupied nearly the whole of his peech with debating issues and questions which had )een SETTLED KT THIS PARIiUMSKT, Ad settled by the country after they had been settled ly this Parliament. That hon. gentleman did not like ' great many things; he was curious to know a great aany more thines; and what he did not like, and rhat he waa cunoua to know, in nine cases out of en, were questions which, in my humble opUilon, lad DO more to do with the settlement of this ques- km which la now before tis, than a magazine article ipon Bacteria has to do with chemical nothtlon. In pbe first place, the hon. gentleman did not like this ompaoy coming back again to Parliament. Well, lir, we would all have much preferred that they hould never have come back again and asked for a e-arrangement, or a reconsideration of this question, ^e would have much preferred to ste them gu on with belr contract, aud complete the road in 1886. But he poUit to be observed is that they came back, and whether we liked it or not was not the (luertiou. "hat was the problom we had to solve, and it is no for us to grumble becaiue they camo back when 'e did not want them to come back. Well, Sir, the ion. gentleman satirized the able resources of the Syndicate. He seemed to make a great deal of merri- tent over the fact that this Syndicate had been laud- d in years gone by as composed of exceptionally able entlemea, financlally;and now that this company has ame back to us In the way it has, he supposed that « had good grounds for turning back upon the Qov- ruoMnt, and the party who support the Qovern- nent, bMatise the great advantage we hoped to ob- sin through this Bj'udicate was not realized. Well, Sir, I do notthink there was any mau, in 1881, or since 1881, who for a moment supposed thft any Syndicate were going to take money enouKh out of thetr own pockets, ' OR HAD POCKETS DEEP BXOl'OH oat of which to take tho requisite monev, to com- piet'O the gigantic enterprise of building a line of rail- way from Callander to the Pacific Ocean, it was not that for which we looked for a set of able men, but e no patriot and not worthy of the truat repoaed in me, if I did not dedaro ahould emiMtrk at Canadian ports. But although I believe In tliat doctrine, I do not be- lieve that we ahould not place ooraelvea so as to Im unable to gather traffic, destined for the eaatern dtiea of the county aonth of oa, and carry freight at the lowest coat,and tlieraby increate our volume of trade. The traffic which atarta from the west anJ is bound for the old ceuntry, let us keep for our Caniulian ports; but, as regards all that we can profitably draw from outside aourcea— traffic which begina ia ooun- tr{<)8«.itaide, and ia carried to countriea outside our own, on thia continent, let us liave every facility for carrying tliat traffic. £o much with respect to this matter of United Statea outlet. Tnere is juat one ex- pression which particularly struck mo iu the hon. :;enUeman'8 speech,and which I will quote as he gave it. Ue said : **We may Im exposed to the risks," (speaking about thia ,paTtnership with the railway company) *'but it ia not likely we shall have any of the profits." In my opinion that is the cardinal de- fect in the criticisms ^ven to these resolutions by hon. Kentlemen opposite. , They have taken the i;round that the Canadian Pacific Kail way is an enemy to Canada, and must be watched; that it ia of no na- tional importance; that the company have all the ad- vantages and we have all the riik and ilone of the ad- \-antage8. If by the power of my arms I coultl take up the whole Canadian Pacific Railway and throw the track into the deep sea, I want to knoir what would oe the sensation with which CAHADIABB WOCLD AWAKEN TOMORROW when they realized the tact that they had no Canadi- an Pacific Ballway, no line running from Montreal, Brockville and Callander across to the Far West, 1,131 miles, with ita ateel rails through that arreat un- developed, but rich and promising country '! Would ihey think there were no advantages cimnected with the buildibi; of that road ? We m»y (jive the company all the money and subsidies we have given them, and even supplement tlios) amounts with thU additional aid in the form of a loan; and yet with all these risks and gifts, I undertake to say thtt the benefit which the Dominion realizes from the operation o( that road is far greater than the coat involved to the coun ry. 'Sir, I will make another confession. I had the curi- oaity this morning to read the whole of the speech of the boo. leader of the Opposition, delivered in the House of 1880-81, upon the Canadian Pacific Railway contract; that v/*s when the contract was being sub- mitted and the Houae oalled on to dedde aa to whethar It ahoald be ratlflad or not. I read that ■peeoh from the baginnlng to the end; aad what are my oonolaatona ? Simidy these : that the hon. gantte- man,wben he made hla apeeoh on the reaolaUou nov/ befor* the Hooae, had the aame aet of modela aitd pattama aa be had In 188(V8t. The only thing new ia the littie diSerant material he haa run through them. It was "may ba" and '"may happen" from the begin- ning to the end of bis apeooh In 1831; it ia "may be" and "may happen" almoat from the Deginning to the end of hia ageech thia aeislon. One of the hon. gentleman's "may be'a" In 18S1, waa thia : "may be the company would never begin to conatmct the road." But they did bogin it Another waa thai "may ba the members otthecompany would abacond." They have not dona ao. Another waa, that "may be the company wevid never btiild the Lake Superior aection."* But they have ahown their earneatneaa In commencing that work. Another waf, that "may Ik the company WOULD LOCK or TUB LARDS and ho'.d them until anmo futuro period when they could get higher prioea for them." But they have not held the lands ; they have aold all they poaeibly could aeU. Another was, that " may be the aoheme would ruin the countij." But the ceontiy has not been muoh ruined by it. Another waa, that " may be the scheme would ruin and submerge the party." But the party atlll stands intact. Sir, at the conclu- sion of all those " may be'a," the hon. gentieman atood up atraight and apoke to the hon. members on thia aide of the Hooae in the foilowiog Unguage :— " I shall not venture to hope that thia 9pnae will reject it but I do not doubt that an indigiamt«onn> try, although yon will not give it time now to raiae ita voice, will take the cariiaat opportunity to Inflict a aommaiy penalty apon those penona, offendera (or a second time, who having onoa betrayed, when en- tmated with power, their oouatrf'a honour, and hav- ing been forgiven, have now taken advantage of the opportnoity wntch a toe confiding people conferred upon then to betrav. In the aame tranaacUon, her moat vital and material Intereata." That, Sir, was the condnding sentence which (ell like a thunder oUpo( Warning upon the Houae, sod which tthowed that, as the hon. gentleman did npt properly gauge the connecting circamitances which atirroundsd the qoeation, he had equally failed in gauging, aa every atateaman, especially one who aapirps to be the Leader of a party, ahould be well able to gauge— he (aliea^ gauge the temper of the Canadhui people, with reapeot to this subject Hare we not then good gronnda (or concluding that aa ha (ailed then to righly gauge the fmportance of the queaiion and the Eentiment of the ooantry, he may aa , lertainly fall in this Inatance. Now, Sir, I shall take up some few points of the hon. member (or South Hnron (Sir Richard Cart- wright). I am sorry he ia not in hia place, but aa he not, it is not my fault He commencea with a warn- ing Will any hon. genUtraan in thia Houae, who has watched him from hia seat, yiar by year, say if he can recollect a single inttanoe in which that hon. gen- tieman did not commeace hia speech with a wartilng. The hon gentieman is in love and delighted with warnings. An old historical legend, which ^taketi us away l>aok into the times of Greece and the Tro- jans, tells us that there waa a rROPUBTESS BT THE KAMB OF CASSANDRA. She had the divine gift of prophecy, but it waa fated that her prophecica ahould never be believed. She walked about the atreeta of Troy, and the burden of her prediction waa, " Troy shall be destroyed; woe unto Troy; Troy shall be destroyed; woo unto the City of Troy." Year after year that plaintive cry of Cas- sandra went aboard in the atreeUof Troy, until tha people became indignant and indifferent; and at laat, when she passed by their way, they would simply say, one to the other: "It is only the mad Csasandra. let her rave " It may happen that the multiplied warnings— warnings made when the hon gentleman was in power, and since— will become wearisome to the people, and to bis party, and that wben he raises his fruitful succession of warnings, the people may just jog each other as they pass by, and say : "It ia only the mad CassiiDdra" What are the waminga which the hon gentleman baa given ua on the aub- jeut o( the reiolutlons? The first is this : I warn you that if you endorse that Bill you will have to pay it. The second one ia : I warn you if you pass the tesolu- 10 dedde »■ to I read that d; ud what mn I the hon. nntle- neoInUoMnow of models M|d nty thtoff new ia n throufrn them. Trom the beolii- it ii«'m»yT»e" beginniog to the le of the hoD. thli : "m^ be conitruct the other wu that wonldabecond." that "may be lAke Snperior earneatneM in ,1, tb»t "majr be riod when they But they hara Ul they poaeibly IT be theaoheme ceontiy hai not irai,that "nwy erge the party." r, at the conclu- hon. Kontleman ion. memben on g h»Kuage :— thia ^uae will indig:ii&t«otui* ime now to raise iunity to inflict a 8, offenders for li rayed, whenen- lionour, and hav- Mtvontage of the >eople conferred transaction, her itence which felt the House, and mtlcman did npt imitancea wliich squally failed in sciallr one who , should be well le temper of the I subject. Have uding that as be iportance of the antry, he may as , Bw points of the llr Richard Cart- place, but as he tea with a wam- thls House, who byyear, aayif lie ih that hon. (ten- with a warning. 1 delishted with id, which stakes ice and the Tro- :assasdra. but it was fated I believed. Hhe Ithe burden of destroyed; woe '00 unto the City itive cry of Cas- Troy, until the rent; and at last, would simply I mad CsBsandra. the multiplied hon Kentlemao le wearisome to t wben he raises he people may Mid say : "It is 3 the warnings us on the sub- ihia : I warn you II have to pay It. pass the tesolu- 15 tious, the company is not bound to, and will not, com- plete this road by 1888. WeU, Sir, that wamia« wu effectually voided by the utterances of the Minister of Railways^ho has, I liope, set that question at rest in this House. He then ifoesonto wamusthat the road will not lie built in four years; be warns the Finance Hinlster that he may find It hard to borrow monev; he warns him that the soiplus may Klve out —and that is a wandnn upon which, I am bound to aay, he is particularly well able to talk. He warns him that the importations miftr diminish: he warns us —no, ho does more, he confidently predicts— and the old Latin line comes to one's miad, ab itno diiee oin neg— oonfldentlv predicts what 7 Here is what the hon. member for South Huron says :— 'llien we see from declarations in this House~we see in the newspapers of a certain Province, we see in every direction, that one of the great Provinces of the Dominion is seriously dlssatiafled with Jts flean- cUl position, and that it ia not likely to consent to this $30,000,000 t)eing given, unless other and greater conceesions ara made, unless other and still greater liabilities are incurred." TIIAT IS A 8TAT£MKST IS COLD BLOOD, that if we advance this loan the demands of a certain province will not be satisfied until another $30,000,- 000 mon are given to it. I give that as a specimen of the extravagant predictions of tlie hon. gentleman opposite; and as we know how close to probability that one is, we may take it as a fair sample of thejpro- babiUty of his other warnings being verified. Well, Sir, he warns us, first, that this is but the initial in- stalment^d again tliat it may turn out to be simply ivGrand.'Wink i^alr. Sir, with nferenco to tnis Grand Trunk affair,! think the hon. member for Card- well pretty well set It in sufficient light when he spoke on that question. I deny that they an parallel cases. I say they are as widely different as possible. In the first place, with rofarence to the Grand Trunk Rfiilway, it was aaiXt by money subscribed by people abroad which wal sent to this country and tued in building a road for developing and opening up this countrv. In the other case, all the assets tfld money which have been given to the company for the buUd- intr of this trans^oontiiiental line is money which has been advanoed and land subsMy which has been granted by this country— a magnlfloent, and I must «ay a sufficient subvention— one which we aro not called upon to increase, and one which I do not think rt is the temper of this Parliament ot the country to increase la the way of subvention or gift. Add this to'the romarks which wen made by the hon. member for Cardwell and the considerations which he ad- (kiced. and I think it is patent to most hon. gentle- man that then is no fair parallel between the Grand Trunk Railway and this railway, with nference to the lien we may have upon tiiem. The lien we have on >he Grand Trunk was placed when it is because of considerations which cannot now enter Into this ques- tion. It is still a liability, and the time will probably come when this liability will be met, and the country will get back what it paid into that road in the way of capital. Sir, the hon. gentleman has given these amengst other warnings.- Now the only process by which we can arrive at any fair estimate of what im- portance Wis ARl TO ATTACH lOTUBSS WAB1II1|0», i a to go back to the past warnings from the same hon. gentleman. If we have any doubts about the matter they can only be set at rest in that way. Let us go back to his record and collate a number of the warn- ings he has uttered, and if he has proved a fair and a true prophet in the past, it is possible he may do so in the present instance. But, on the other hand, if he has proved a false prophet in the past, it is quite possible that his prophecies will have the same out- come at the present time. I think it we take the Budget speeches which were delivered by that hon gentleman from 1874 to 1878, we will find prophecy and non-fulfilment runniue through from the very tirat to the very last. In 1871 he came down with his Budget, and when placing his 93,000,000 of extra tax- ation on the people, he concluded that he would thenceforward be able to dispense with any addition- :tl taxation, aud that the prospects of the country for being able to sustain itself were fairly good. In 1876 he had reason to believe that there would be a reason- able surplus for the current year. In 1876 these con- fident forecasts of the hon. gent'emen's are given a uew turn, both by the mournful prologue with which he commences his speech in 1S7G, aud the still mdrn moamful tones in which hs alluded to the falling off •f trade to the extent ef $20,00CL000. In 1877, despite his hopeful torsoasts, a dsflolt of 12,000,000 stared him in the face, and he put a tax on tea to help him to meet it But then he thinly th%t ia that year the country is about coming to clear water, and ft will be all right afterwards. But the next year comes, and then is auother deficiency and then wu a fore- shadowing of the hated income tax. As a man of foreOMt, ttie history of the hon. member fer South Baron, from 1874 to 1878, will not make us feel that his authority in that regard is of any very great weight But let us go from foncist to prophecy, aud see how he hu succetded. Any man mi^ MAKB A HIBIAM Uf FORICAST, but it a man hu khe divine afflatus breathed U]>ou him, if he liu the power of prophecy, then can be no difficulty in his case; if he can prophesy, and is a true prophet, his predictions will come true; if not, they will not come true. The hon. gentleman pro- phesied la 1878, and the subject of his prophecy wu the hon. Finance Minister. He said: "But when the people come to understand what is now being proposed, the chances of my hon. friend ever suceeding in regaining his place in this House is, if I know anything of tne temper of his constit. nency, problematical in the lut degne." The hon Finance Minister, howtver, did come back, and ha is hen today, and the fallacy of the prophecy is shownby the fact. In 1878, the hon. gentleman again lifted up his voice and prophesied— and this time he had two strinss to his bow. The snbject of this prophecy is tbe hon. Minister of Railways and the National Policy: "the hon. member for Cumberland, when becomes back to power, if he ever does, of which I must fain express my doubt, at all events at the next alection, will find himself so crippled aud confined in every quarter, that if be did make some slight readjustment of the Tariff he m ill be obliged to settle down on tbe general Tariff, not affording manufabtunra one whit mon aislstance or proteciion than that which he now condemns on our part." Sir, the hon. member (or Cumberland did come back at tbe next elections, did help to introduce and to cany forward the very same Tariff policy which he propounded wben he wu a member of Her Majesty's loyal Oppoeiti^n. ^.n 1879 this hon. gentleman again lifts up his voice tad prophecies, tbis time about the party. He says: "Tbe time is coming, and coming fut, when they will wake up frotn their short-lived delusion to find themsdves wiser and poorer by many a million than they an tonight I warn the hon. gentleman that then he will find that for tbe sake of obtaining a tem- porary party triumph, he and those Who support him will, in the long result, prove to have utterly and hopelessly wrecked, not only their own fortunes, apd the fortunes of their party, but I very much fear the fortunes of the country, that have been most ua- fortunately committed to their %harn:e." Eir, the events have spoken after tlie prophecy, and have shown upon what tenable grouuJs he prophesied. In 1380, again HS LIFTED IP 1113 VOICK AND PROrny.SIKD, and this time he spoke about the Cauuiliaa Pacific Railway contract, say log : " They will rush upon the fate which awaita them BO soon as the people ha\-e an opportunity of pro- nouncing their opinions at the polls." The people had the opportunity B( prououncinK their r, 1878, Inclusive, that hon. gentleman in no »io«ile Budget speech, refrained from hurling back upon the preceding Government accusations respect- ing the enormotis and reckless and Insane expendi- tures they had heaped upon the coontr}', and the more reckless, enormous and insane obligttions to which they had committed the country. Btat that hon. gentleman went over to Great Britain to ask a favor, and when he reached the mother land he had no other ward*, in presenting his case, to utter, than these:— '* The entire debt has been incu'red since for legi- timate objects ot public utility. The Indirect advan- tages from these public works have been founl in the remarkatle rapidity with which the commerce and the material prosperity ot the Dominion have been deve- loped. The revenue has shown a continuous surplus each year since Confederation." Either the hon. gentleman was wrong in his first statement or he was dishonest In his second, and our opinion of him Is not raised when we find that, on his return he gave this reason for his contradictory state- r^ents, that it was necessary to show • TBE SILVER SIDE OF THE SHIELD n the Mother Country when soliciting a favour, but he kept the brrzenslde for his own people at home. The hon. gentle man spe«ks in Indignant tones ot bis patriotism On this point I have gathered some little Information, from a statement made by the hon. gen- tleman iu 1882, when he occupied in this House his* position rf chief financial critic ot the Government. He said: "Why, Sir. I told them today that Canada is a country in which no man is free to buy or to sell, to cat or to drink, to travel <»- to stand still, without paying toll to some extortioner or other." If the eminently patriotic gentleman is to carry abroad statements ot that kind, it becomes of the first nccsssity that a man with equally strong lungs should travel closely behind him, and, as these utter- anoes go forth, cry out with a loud voice : " Never- theless this is a Canadian patriot of the first water," I think I have taken up most of the objections wliich have been mrged as reasons why those resolutions should not be passed. But there are a few left out ot the abundant surplus— I am glad that the hon. gentleman has a little portion of a surplus in some way— there are* few left from the salient remarks ot the hon. member for Queen's which I did not quite •vertake before recess and with reference to which I have a few remarks to make now. When the hon. gentleman spoke of THE OLD LIN'DLORU STSTiftl of this country, and tried to make it appear