c Aisr A-D A. BUDGET SPEECH DELI V En ED nv HON. GEORGE E. FOSTER, D.C.L., M.P. 1 1 • ;;; MINISTER OF FINANCE fit,-* »'■' li •.; bt ■,* .. ; il- ■, ■ IN THE ■• „, , '^:-- . ■' ,'.■ •■. ■ i^E HOUSE OF COMMONS ' 1 .' )'.'. . ■ ■ ■ t- .^^.1^^: .; ..:. TUESDAY, 14th FEBRUARY, ^.-.-v '/J' ^''■,;.- -•^. -''v'* -.^■- ; ^.' ' 1893 ..^ . i.4 t' V r, OTTAWA PRINTP^D BY S. E. DAWSON, PRINTER TO THE QUEEN'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY 1898 c^isr^D A^ BUDGET SPEECH DKI.IVKKKII I'.V HON. (iKORGE E. FOSTER, D.C.L.. M.P. MIXrs'l'KH OF FINANCE IN TlIK PIOUSE OF COMMONS TIKSDAY, U". FEBRUARY 1893 OTTAWA PRINTED 15Y S. K. DAWSON, PKINTKII TO TIIK.QUEf:N'.S MOSST EXCELLENT MA.) EST Y 1893 BUDG^ET ©PEECH DELIVERED BV HON. GEORGE E. FOSTER, D.C.L., M.P. MINISTER OF FINAXCE IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, U'h FEBRUARY, 1S!)3 WAYS AND MEANS— THE BUDGET. Mr. POSTER moved : Tliat the HcniHc rewolvt- itsi-lf into Coininittee to consider tiin Wiivm and Means for raising the Supply to lie granted to Her Majesty. UEVENUE, 1891-2. i In rising to move that the House go into Committee of Ways and Means, it becomes my duty, lu the first place, to malte, as briefly as I possibly can, consistent with plain- ness, a statement of the operations of the pre- ceding year, and of the current year, so far as we liave overtalcen it. In doing so, I de- sire, without further ceremony or prelude, to state that in March last, when I had the honour of maldng my financial statement in this House, I estimated that the revenue wlilch would accrue during the year would be a."* follows :— Customs .S20,.")00,(X)0 Kxcise 7,!l<)<),000 Miscellanpf)U8 «,2(;5,(K)0 Total . !?3(J,(J(ir),0()0 The actual receipts were as follows :— Customs CJ<»,r)01,or)!» Excise r,!»4.5,0!»7 Miscellaneous 8,475,715 Total 83(5,921,871 showing a very slight excess of $1,059 in Customs; an increase of $45,097 hi Excise, and an excess of $210,715 in Miscellaneous. So that, whereas the total estimate for that period was $36,666,000 the total receipts were $36,021,871, being an excess of receipts over estimates of $256,871. The following were the receipts during the preceding year of 1890-91 :— Customs .S2.'i,3.7r)(! CariHts 11,740 Cement l,li)2 Coal and coke l.S,408 Drugs, dyes, chemicals and medi- cines 31,.523 Earthenware and china 37,228 Fancy gixxls 34,452 Flax, hemi) and jute, manufactures of 2.5,!tlG Fruits, gie«n 41,511 Furs and manufactures of 20,847 i Glass do <»,388 fxloves and mitts .... . 7,(!36 Gold and silver, manufactures of. . 3,<)55 (Jun ixjwder and other explosives. 5,5»)5 Iron and S'teel, manufactures of . . . 70,!t79 Lead, and manufactures of l,i)22 Leather, and manufactures of ... 29,504 JCt.KIVi Mftitl, ciiiii|MiMitiiiii iind otliiTM . . . (MIh, (imiI, kcrnxci.i-, mill |it-iHlitctH of I'lM'kiijffK I'lilMT. anil iiiuiiiifiu-tiirtitiif I'riiitiii^ |irv««'s Sri'iU anil iiMits Sunp "if 111! kiiiilH SpiritM anil \\ iiii's ii|hiii wliiili an iiii'iiaw III < 'iHtiiiiiH iliitii'H wiiH I'liiri'il \'ariiisli N'l'tfi'talili-'* U'cKij, ami iiiiiiiiifHctiiri'Miif All iitliir iliitialili' >;iiimU. . And from the following articles decreased i duties wei'o received :— Hia^s, anil inaniifHctiirt'K of ft W'ttui ' IJiiMilstutfs i:i'.i,.v.; Ilruks iiMil tills.. ll,!Mfc« CliKiks anil cIcKk N|ii'inK'* Ciiffii- Ciitfi-r, anil niannfuctnri'H I'f . . . Ciittiiii, anil nianiifuctiii'i'H nf ('laiM's iif all kimU iMniiiiii'liiii's, ii.it iitliiTwiw pn \ idfil fur 10.!NNI I.T'i'J 1-'.H74 •.•.7l!t !t.-J47 l.V.'.L'H Ifiri/^M 1.M7S l.l-.'l •_'«»,7>i-.',!»:v> Krnits atiil nutn. ilriiil ■X no 1 iiitta iK'i'i'lia anil hulia niliUi', nianiifai'tini'H uf i:<.4t'.i HatN, capM ami iKinnetM is,:iis .IfUi'llirv l-J..Mit MuHiral iiiNtnuiii iitK.. ;i,.f.i( Oils. alliithiT. N.K.S lo.'.i.Vi Oililiitli 4,L' HiitttT, fliffsf, lard and nil 'atx. . . Kd. :.■,;< Salt 7.'.«tl SiiiiiH Hiid v»'sm'l» and r<-|iairs on. . 7..V.I Silk, inanufactnri's iif r.4.04.-. Spiii-s of all kinds 4..M1 Stiini'. and nianiifartinvs uf lti.,s|.-, Snjfur uf ;dl kinds ;<,iMi4.4tl'_' .Mulansi's 4,ihm; Sn(;ar randv and tiinfti tiontTV.. l(i.4(,l T.^a 7.H4'.I 'I'in. and nianiifactiin's uf '_M!M» 'riiliarcii. and nianiifiu'tuD-s of ."i«i,;«»s Watclics. and parts uf i!i.i:.M WiKid, ami maniifaitiirrs of .. 10,M,S.S i:t.7i:. Comtne to Excise, the chiiiiu»'H are consider- able, as sbown by the following :— 'i".\iil,i: sliuwiii),' miiiiititics tiikeii mit ;iiiil ihities arciued. I ISJHt !»l. IS'.II '.tj. (Quantity. < Quantity. 1MiM> !tl. isiti irj. Spirits L',7(is,,s41 Alalt Ii»)K.! r>7.!M»!M,'«i| r'itrars 101,ll7j>Hn fipiri'ttes ;<(>,(M>(i,ti»l Toliacco and snuff. h\m.\ !l.(iSM,f)4:< •j..-.7s.'.t7:< l<1.4--'ri,.SKL' 104,.V_M.4!t;{ 40,I47.'JIHI !t,S7'_MC.(i hiitv Kiitv Iniii-asi'. .Viiriiiil. .Vccnii'd. s;i..-,44.1'.n s;{.,s7;{,,S',d .•^IVJil.iiltl ."M,s,.j!t;i '.>-js.:,\: :«!i,!f.'4 tMi.\(ll7 (■,•_»;{. ii.vj i.^.ia'i .M,7:{7 iiL'.!i:« s.im; l.S(i!»,S!t5 •_»,:Citi.iHi4 4«7.(N«» (;,tir.L»,4;w 7.H4f;,lo7 l.i.H:t,r,74 The lucrca-sed duty in spirits, as shown above, Is due to tlie increased Excise placed upon tiieni. 'I'ho per capita cotisunaption of Excise articles and the average of the whole period has been always given, and 1 >;lve It here as well : FkU t*\PnA ("|>\SIM1'TII)\. spirits. Avi'raKi'frunilS(i7 dii fur IS!HI !tl, du fur ISill !t2 Cals. I I.TI 74.-) 701 l'...r. Wine. Tolini'iu Cal.-. Cals. Lhs. ■_"7:«i l.S'l L'l.SO ;V7!MI 111 2 "2! 12 :v,")iti 101 2 2U1 DKCIflvVSK IN T.\.\.\TION. Genei-ally, with regard to these different Items of the revenue, it may bo interesting for the House to Icnow that, coniparing 1891-92 with 1889-JH), ttiklng the full years before and after the Increase jtnd re- duction of duty respectively, tlio imports in 1891-92 were $110,978,94;{, against $112.- 7«55,584 In 18S9-9t>. But the duty accruing last year was only $2(),5r)0,r)81, as compared with $24,014,908 hi 1889-90. Thus, thougli the imports for liome consumption last year as compared with tho years 1889-90. wero $4,2i;i,;{r)9 >;reater, the dutj- c^)llected was $3,4()4,;}27 less, or, In round figures, the Cus- toms taxes were three and a half millions of dollars less than in 1889-90. The per capit-i Customs burden hi 1889-lH) wiis $5.01, and In 1891-92 $4.25. behig a reduction per head in tlie burden of taxation of 76 cente. The duty per cent of dutiable and free goods in 1889-90 was 21.21 ; last year It was 17.50. a reduction of 3.G5 In the rate of duty. It is as well to state here In carrying this a Uttlu further, that tlit> total duty oHcctoil In 1891-02 from Cu^toiua was HUiallj-r than In th«' year ISH'J by one and one Hfth millions, than In 188.'{ by two and onf-half nillhonH, than in IHS" by twt' nilllions. and tliau In 1S,S'.)-'.M» by tlireu and ont'-half niilliona of dolhirH. sliow- liij? that (ln« conti ntitin in tnic tliat the pro sent (Jovcrnnicnt. in tiic furtlicriince of its policy. Ih from year to year materially re- duclDK the taxation of the eountry. In inaliinK tho changes in the taritT in .Itine, ISJtl. ! es- timated a loss upon (lie average consumption of sugar of !i;:{.r»(M».(M).iH)() on malt. .litUKMNX) on spirits and .f-t<)0.(KHi oil tobac<'os. But the increase has not come up to tlie estimate. The InercastHl gain in malt was ?:i;«>.'.>U4, in spirits S-TJit,- t»10. In tobacco the estimate was i-xeeeded. \Vh( reas ;he estimate was .'S-«n»,(HM». the In- creas«« has been il'.'iH.HO. The total Increase from th<'se higlier Kxclse duth's was $l.l.s;!,- 074. In order to meet these higher Excise duties to some extent, the duties on Imports of these articles were slightly increased. T'he I'esult was not to increase the revenue, for. although we received an Increase In ale and porte- of !?27.i;!<». and In spirits and wines of )i!lL*.S74. we had a decrease in Ira- port«'d tobat-cos of $r)().;{(tS, so tliat the total decrease In Customs amounts to Ifltt.litKS so far as these Increases were concerned. Therefore, as regards the hicreases and htsses which were estimated, the revenue has gained less from tho Impositions upon malt and spirits, iuid we have lost more than I have estimated by taking off the duiies upon stigar, on account of the Increaswl con- sumption as shown by the following table : HltiAU CoNSLMITION. Lh, Valnc. Dutv. ISHS ,S!1 2'_';<.H4l. 171 ."...s;c.H!t.-. ISS!) !H» ' 174.0t,").720 .'i.lSC.I.'tS 1H!M» i!" .•),(M»:).:«'.i7 ISlll !»2 1 34.\41S. \s:, !i,os-j..v_';i :i(i7.".,7'-'4 L',S.M,.V»7 :<.i;-thlrd millions of dol- lars, which amounted to ".M» cents jwr head of the total popuhitlon. Now. It is fair to say tliat if the remission had not been made it is not probable that the consumption would have been quite so high, for the cli(>aper the pnxluct the greater the consumption ; that Is notable in the case of tea and sugar, and articles of that kind. It is. however, tnie thai in t.iking off tlte duties upon raw sugar we have remitttHl to this coimtry. upon an actual nece.swary con.smni)- tlon of sugar, an amount of money In tho neighbourhood of $."),00().(XtO during the last year. While on that i>oiut It may be Just as well to make a 8t;itemeut in order to cuiitrasi the two policies, in order t<» meet to a certain extent, an assertion which is often heard, that tho .system of taxation and tho amoimt of taxation as It bore ui»on certain classes, was less under tho administration of our predecessors than under our own. Let Mie add this further statement : that we colli-cted on coffee In 1892. $7,177; but If tho same duties had been paid upon the coffee consumeil in this country last year as was placed upon coffee under the preceding ad- ministration. Instead of the people having paid $7,177 they would have paid $t!t».74tJ. Duty on tea was last year paid to tlie amoimt of $8.2(55. If the same rates of duty had been paid last year as were paid under the preceding administration the country would liave paid on the same consmuptlon of tea $1.2GG.2;i;i instead of $8,2(>5. lu the matter of rice, which is also the poor man's food, we paid last year $S().7t)2 ; but if the duties In force under the preceding administration upon the article of rice had been paid last year, instead of that amount the iteople would have paid $229,820. In sugar, as I have stated, the duty of 1892 was about $77,000, Ti-lu>rea8 under tho rate of taxation exlstloK under the pri>ceding administration, the duty paid wouhl liave been $4,438,10U. That Is to say, on these four articles alone, coffee, tea. rice and suKar, tlio country paid laat yeer $172,4(1.'} : under the rata of taxation, upon a similar conmimptlon, of the preceding ad- ministration, thoy would have paid $6,00().UiiO. Under the two rates of t^ixatlun the siivInK" to the people In these articles alone lost year was 15,828,442 There is no dispute that in tho case of every one of these articles everj' dollar of that taxation would have come out of tl.e poolietfl of tlie consumer. i)ecause it is UfK)n materials which are not j;ro\vn in this coimtry. With reference to receipts from Misct'llMntHma. 1 may say tliat last year thoy were tho laruost since Confederation, amotmted to $8,475,714, as npiinst .$4..";$;{.(>7.'{ in 1878, $4,075,907 in 187.S, and $l.t)7S.-J47 In 18(57 ; that Is. the Increase in eamin;;s from 1807 to 187.3 amounted to $2,(>88.()(!0 ; in 1878 the eaniiiiKS further increa.sod l)y $4.">7.l(><» ; In 1892 they had Increased over 1S78 by $3,942,t541, an Increase of 87 per cent. i:\i'r,\rtrn i;i; i-on is'.il'.ti'. I come now to speak for a few moments of the expeudlturas for the last year. Tho esti- mated expomllturo In March la.st was $30,(»5O,- 000 ; the actual expenditure was $30,705,894, an incronso over tiu> precodiuj; year of $422.-' 327 on Consolidated Revenue Account alone. | The increjisos, as Avlll appear from the follow- ing taldo, took place In the following items of expenditure :— liitt i>ii I'uliliu l)cl)t X 17!t,,sil I'l-riHinnH » n.Hiw Mihtiii i:<.L'o:. Mnlintl'il I'dljci- : I'liliii.- WmkH (('<>iii«ili(lrtt«-»l Fumi) :{t)!i.('i!)t Miiil SiilwidicK ami .Sti-ain-xliiii ,Siili\i'iitic)iis 47.!»lit < (ctaii iiKJ Kivcr .SiTviif 2*-',ti".tl Mariiif ilosiiit.'tls . 1 (Mi.'i < ii'i ill laical Survey H.Lti'J llHlillllH !»;<,iti!i ( MiM'I'IIIID'llt iif tin- NlU'tll-Wt'Ht '{"i rriff|ii« ni,<\ .MtiiMiri'H ami (tiw . . :{,:«i ( 'uilill^' 'liiiilHT •_',».■>< 1 Ailiillfiaf ion cif KihkI i.:w i'lil'lic Wi.ikH (ciijlictioii) (•.ii':< I{ailuii\>.;uicl <'atials (c i.ljfctioii). . n;7,(;;t'.t 1 )i>iiiiiiiiiii l.aiiil" . \iir..i\::, Siiikiiiy {''iiikIs S!),7,S2 Ailiiiiiiistiatiiiii uf .histice 24,i;«t 1.1%'islatiiiii 70(;,:{,S!I Arts, .\Ki-ii(ilturc anil Statistics.. ]li,;U.") <,)narantint' • L',,sM!l Sn|nTaiiiiiiatinii 12,5(1!) Kail\»a.vs ami ("aiialK (Consoli- (lati'(i Fini(i) 2(»,(U;i Liglitliiiusc and Couxt Si-rvicft*. . . . 11,042 Fislii'iifs lo,4()S SciiMititii- liistltution.s .S,2(i5 Subsi(ji(!s to i>r74 I'r.-niinni, llirtcount and K.\c;liaiige (;!(,4."i,"i Civil (Jovcniiiicnt !M13 Peniti^ntiarifs ,S,2(>!» Iiiiinigratioii 3,440 , The actual expenditure on OonsoUdat^d Fund Account last year, when taken from the total I revenue of lost year, left a small but •oii- I veuient surplus on that account, of .? 155,977. The Increiuse, as I have said, over and al)Ove the procedlnf* year's expenditure on that ao- coimt, was $422,327. But the total lu(rea.>creaw> over a period of six years. LeavluK the ex- penditure on the Consolidated Fund Ac- count, let us see what was tho result of the i>xpendlturo on capital account for tho last year. Taking it In brief, I tind that on ciipital account, excluding; railway sulisldles, we spent last year $2,106,700, as against $3,115,851) In the preceding year, u saving lu expenditure, or a lessoning In expenditure for lust year over tlio preceding year in that n*- Kanl. of $950,150. Taking In tho railway sub- sidies and treating that expenditure as on cupiUil account ,wo spent last year $3,413,015 as against 14,381,504 In the preceding year, a savhig In tills expendlttu^ of nearly $1,000,000 as compared witii tho preceding year. Tlie course of the capital account since 1887-88 has been continuously downwanl, coiuuieuciug in tliat year with an expenditure of $4,4;{7,- 400 ; hi the second year, 1888-80, $4,420,313 ; in Uie thii-d year, 1889-00, $4,053,160 ; In 1800- 01, $3,115,800; in 1801-92, $2,105,700, tlie average of these live yeara being $3,038,406, the expenditure for the last year coming beneath the average of the lust tivo yea re by $1,472,700, and being less than tho expendi- ture of 1887-88 by $2,271,700. Taking the ex- penditure on Consolidated Kuud Accoimt and tho expenditure on capital account, we tind this suite of things : that wliereas tho oviT- expeudituro on tho first was $422,327, the under-expendituro on tlie second was $067,- (MO, making tha totjii expenditure on Consoli- dated Fund .and capital accoimt, last year, $545,322 less than the preceding year, thus again substantiating the fact that the ex- penditures of this cotuitry are year liy year diminishing Instead of growing larger. With respect to the debt of the cotmtry, it will be re- membered that for two or three years I have been able to oJironlcle a very small addition to the debt 1 am not able to do th.at this year. Having taken off the large revenue which accrued from sugarai, and hay- ing offset that only by about one-third of its loss ; we have hac! less surplus to draw from for o^ir capital expenditure, and consequently bad to meet a larger amount of capital expeudltiire out of borrowings. So, whereas In 1880 the net debt was $237,530,- 041, hi 1800 1237.633,211, hi 1801 1237.809,030, in 1802 It rose to 1241.131.434, l>elng an In- crease over the precets for tlio country, although tliey pro- duced no revenue, and although, under the ptculiar arraugeni(>nt which was made, they could have by no possibility i)roduce should call a halt as regards the increase of the debt of the country, and that I thoufjlit I saw from that point of time the possibility of raising our revenues without In- creased fixation, and meeting therefrom the necessary services of the coiuiti-y, of laying up the yearly amount for the sinlciug fxmd, and of maiiing a fair capital expenditiu'e year t)y year, and of accomplisliing that without add- ing to our (lel)t. 'I'liat promise or that pro- phecy was literally fulfilled up to the past year. It could not l)e fulfllled after that, be- cause we took millions of dollars from oiu" revenue in reinittiug the taxation upon raw sugiir, wliicli clianged the aspect of affairs, and c(»iis(>(iueiitly we had to draw on loans for a certain amount of our capital expendi- ture. If, liowever, we had Icept the duty on sng.ir. instead of having had tliis increase to tlie capital debt of the coimtry of wliich I have just spolten, we would, from the revenue wliidi would have accnied from sugar, not only have Icept the del)t from increasing, but we would have diminished the total net (iflit of the country by about ?2,000,000. So tliat luy promise made at that time, was upon tlie set of circmnstances then existing, and that it lias not been literally fidfiiled this year is because the Government tliought it better to remit tliis enormous amount of taxation to the people of to-day, and to rnalie the people of future years pay their proportion of the amoimt that was necessary for tlie capital worivs of the comitry, over and above wliat, we can spend and spare of current revenue. ItKVKM i; AM) KXI'KNKiri ifi:, I Mil' '.»."). As to the receipts for the current year, I Ond that from July of last year to 31st January' of this year, tlie income has been $21,772,000, as compared with an in- come last year of $20,71t>,451. That is an Increase In receipts of about $1,000,000, as compared with the last year. Last year, we received in the second liaif of tlie year $10,- 205,420. If we receive that same .sum this year, which is a little doubtful, the whole revenue of tlie country will amount in the present year to a little more than $38,000,000. The expenditure of the present year, up to .•{1st .Tanuarj', is |19,1 S9,89.'i. The expenditure for the same period last year was $10,817,325. Tlie expenditure in the last five months of ' the last year was $16,948,502. If the same rate of expenditure is oliserved during the last half of this year, we shall have expended $30,500,000, or thereabouts ; but I am not at all certain that the same rate of expenditure can be observed. We are, for instance, to pay additional interest upon our loans ; we are to pay, I do not know how much, but a I>retty roand sum, for fitting up the quaran- tine facilities of the different ports of the country ; and these two amoimts, as will appear from the Supplementary Estimates, soon to be brought down, will swell by a very conslderaliio amount the calculated expenditure of Uie current year in it.s last half beyond what was the expenditure during the last half of last year. Sir RICHARD GARTWRKJHT. These figures, I suppose, are up to the 3lst Januaiy ? Mr. FOSTER. Yes. Then again, we are spending more heavily on capiUil account for the purpose of finishing our canals. The Sault Ste. Marie Canal, which was begun aliout a year and a half ago, is bcnng puslied forward to completion witli all possible speed, so that, during this year, tlie expendi- ture will far exceed the expenditure of last year. All these things make me cautious about giving a forecast as to the result of tiie year, at tills early period in the year. However, I think I may say this : That we will, out of the current income of the present year, pjy all expenditures on account of Consolidated Fund and have a good balance to apply to capital accoimt ; whether or not it will meet the whole of the capittil expenditure upon canals I cannot at this period of time say. This much is gratifying, that for seven months of the year, however, the revenues so far, are nearly $1,000,000 greater than they were during the corresponding period of last year ; whUe the expenditures up to the present time are considerably less than during the corresponding months of last year. Tin: i.oAV OK 1S!)L». It is not necessary for mo to explain to the House— tlie House is well aware of it already —that in order to meet the extra expenditure upon capital account, and to take up the temiwrary loans which had boeu runnin;;, a loan had to be put upon tlic British market. That Is full.T oxplained in the rublic Accoimts, and it has also been explained to the House. Mr. FOSTRTl. Was that not do loan inatlt' piiyalde V i>i:i>(isiis IN iiii: HANKS. I desire for a moment to call the attention I (jf the House to tlie Improved con- \ ditiou of things, so far as indicated l>y tlie savings of the comilry, and iIk pusi- I tion of the Savings Banks. It will be wlthlu I tlie memory of the House, that on the 1st October, ISSO, the new Order in Counod wetit into force which reduced llie iutcrciit alloWMl on deposits In the Savings Banks from 4 per cent to '.\\ per cent. Tliat, and perhaps other causes, kxi to jiu iucreat-'e iu tli(» ! .iiuount of withdrawals from the Savings Banks, which will bo shown when I re>iid the I balances in the dillcreut years. t)u thi' ^5()th I .lune, ISfsli. tliere was a balance of ^i'2,- !t.".(;.:{.->T. On the XOtli ,Iuiie. 1S!M», that i halaiice had decreased to .*i!41.ol'J,4tM ; and 1 ill ISitl it had decreased to !i;:«t.40<),02C. ; be- ing a total (lecrt>ase during these two years, of $3,556,330 as regards the Savings Bitnlvs alone. In isjl'j matters began to uiend, and that yc.ir shows iiii increase in the total bal- ances tn the Savings Banks of $129,521 ; a small increa.se but u|u)n the right side. How- ever, the six iiiontlis of tlie current year show an increast' in the balance of !i!443,210, which at tlio same rate would lie eciuivaietit to pretty nearly $1,()(K».(Mmi during the year, which shows that the tide has turned, so far as the deposits in the Savings Banks are concemed, that the drain upon them has c(>!ised and lias turner H\f(l 'i.-itf. . . . City Mini |)istri<'t S:i\ iiifrs Hank, ami La C'aissc 4,4H4 03 I 2(»,(;8!l,032 (12 : 2I,7;W,(U.S 0!) 22.2!tH,401 05 i 22.8!tl,074 45 5,742,r)2!» 32 | 20,tW2,O2r) C.l ; 17, 001,378 07 17,231,145 08 | 17,081,082 47 35,0!I0,284 00 I 50.331,413 00 2O,:i70.2!»,2H5 (K» 5.031,172 (Mt 50,;<83,40'.MM» ().5,(;il,i;78(K) OH,()<.(4,200 OO 83,24'.),8(;,lSO (H) 1 31>t .lainiaiv, ! l,S".t3. 10, 475, 2! >2 00 10,082,23100 12,230,000 (K( 12,0(»4,105 55 IncTci Totals . 70,107,510 .'J5 '104,707,<»4.s 23 103.ol5.472 10 212.708,4lM 03 222,007.404 47 i H5,500,537 ;« ^ 2H,;i( rmaiiy do Holland do Wi'st Iiidii's .... do Cliinauiid .lapan. do other countries. . . i; 70, 03, 172. 83, 73 1, 8 .323, 080, 405. 3' 870, r.4, 521. 201 1, 307, 480, 3()0, 007 87 454 710 437 VM 580 ro4 00(i 244 532 08.417,200 110,007.0.38 218,384,0.34 01,328,384 04,S21,.352 2,505,877 4,330.232 404,5.32 0,30O,O2(; 2,202,102 3,085,842 n',.M)3,;<75 jr,40(),O08 241,300,443 100,251.084 02,125,500 2.770,173 0, ,520, 228 840,107 7,0.38,840 3,3(H),lOS 5,108,057 I'crfontage Perceiita}?e i)f ISOl of 1K02 liver ovir 1.S78. 1801. 24 1.54 71,747 7!».41<'>,1.''>H ManufacUm-.s . . 7,040,!tH.S t;,2<.M;.24!» Mi.-S4,2r):i 1 Hr),7.'>7,744 ;iicii'a.s.' .*<,t,!>2L'. l)('crfaKC from IH'.Ml. r>!i(iin. liiiiiis and slmiililfiN H.-..f Mtittmi Pork Liinl LI.S. l.lKlS.lics ii..">ti(( '.i,4'.f_'.!)(>.") il!ll,-_'4<> Ll.s. 4,l".ll.'.IMM> 2.<4.M27 4.1!ll.r)K5 Total ;W,(Mi2,it7!l >51,72!I,403 17,:«2,7H1 i;i.4;«».H2(i S!7l'3,O.Sl i!i.(i2;<,i:.H N'alin.- .'Si,oot;,:t'2 Th:it is, tho dwrease from 1890 made a market for our owTi fanners In tliis country by tlio exolusiou of thoso products from the United St^xtes to the value of over $1,000,000. S.> that you liave to talie this into account : tliat uot oniy (lid our fanners Increase their exports by the amount I have named, but that tliey had in the home niarlvet an increased sale to the extent of over $1,000,000, requlretl to supply the country In place of the American produces, wliich were excluded from the United St^itejfi, so that they obtained an en- larged marlcet at home as well as an ad- ditional market abroad. $877,455 worth found a place for itself in the Hi-itisli market, bemj; an increase of 90 per cent. The following table speaks for Itself : Si'ATKM KST of values of till' follow ill;; articles, pro" diii-f of Caiiaila. fxportcd to (Jicat Mritaiii during yrais I SKI ami l.s'l'J, w itii pcrccntayt' of increasi' and dccnasr in carli artirlc. ISIM. 1S'J2. X'aliii-. Vahif. St 3 5 Mr. McXKlLL. of protection. Tliat shows the advantage Mr. FOSTER. As to the diversion of trade, let me read to you the figures of 1891-92, with reference to some products of Canada export- ed to Great Brittdu, in order to make a com- parison. Homed cattle fell off nearly $1,000,- 000, owing t« circumstiuices well knowni. Leaving that out of account. wt> lind somi* very encouraging items. Canadian cheese, apples, and bacon have made their place In the Biitish market. Can;ulian butter had also made a place for Itself, ])ut not a very ♦mviable one ; Jmt under the operations of the Daily Comnussloner and the dairy stjitlons, whicli have been established by the (Jov- «'rument to stimulate the production of a better quality, the quality of Canadian butter has been raised ; it lias been put upon the market in imifonn quality, stamped as Cana- dian butter, making Its own way, and compar- ing 1S91 with 1892 we tind that, whereas in 1891 only $440,0{>0 worth of Canadian butter was exported to Great Britain, last year •s .s Horned cattlf ' S.42."..;«)(i 7.4M.<".1:< 11 I'.utt.r 440.011(1 S77.4.V) Clicsi- '.t.4Sl.;i7.'! n..V.i;>.ii'.lo I'.acon ."iS!t,a!l!l l.OS'.I.OliO Hams 3t),3!I.S M,\)'i>\ Ai.plis, g-ri'cn I ' or ri|>i' 1,2.T..247 1.4o.\.-)27 .V|>|.lis. oo L'^.C.?!! . ILirley '.s 7*>,2lC. .sil.233,st4 . Oats .\'.C.4 1.!t7.">.4S.". . I'eas. whole. . .! 1.4;«l.747 2.3;o,-. ... ilo Honr. .. S.'>1,!I12 1.1lo..S(;s .. . I'IkRs \ S3,.'"»H!t .V.I2.21S 4.\li4 214,785 22 84 48 14 45 14!l 1,540 33,07!> 02 !)(> 49(t 30 iiOS 37 By the way, If you look into the Trade Re- ports you will find that the price of egga— I.{ that much abused article — exported to the British marlvot is one cent and a fraction per dozen higher In value than those exportetl to the American market. It is well that these ligiu'es should be note i!t,:>ii,r):.-) 14,ol'.l,S.^7 ]S,(M)S,7.")4 4.1L'7,7.V. i.i.M'.;w4 'I4!t,:<:« INr It .t ISifJ. I'.T (■.•lit of ItlClfUSf, IllllCil.sC, lS!t2 IS! (2 ovt-r IHIiH. over l!^7,S, 9 :>..tl7."), •.'L',2.Sl, L'«,.V.t4, •->•_'. n;<, 7.0411, ii,i;.v.', 7.7 ts, 1.444, 471 :{!t.s 741 S.Vl L'SJ itss 4lL' ".I4!l s,s:< iss •MA 72 .•^47 1,77!i IKK") 111!) 40 II iii;{ 711 IS! I ••.72 si;7 ' l-'idlii Ontario, l^Miihi';- aii;nlti.st another ; that you cannot afford to pander to tJie pre- be taken into Account at ^"premnt ttals J"*^^^^ ^^ ^^ ""*«« "' «°'' ^'"»« to tlio detri- and tliat Is the unprecedenUy low price '"''°* °' ^^ ^^°*®- ^ '^"^ ^^^^ ^^'^^ *" «**t« of cereals In the marljets of the world ;\^^ ^ misjudge the Canaabin people. I do and dlrecUy upon that supervenes the effort i "°* •"^^^^ "'^«^* ^"^ ^P'""'* "^ *•'« Canadian of the demagogue, the effort of the unscrupu- 1 P^P^^' ^' *°'^ ^°'' °**°' throughout this coun- lous man, to make the people beUeve that In ' ^^' ^^^^ ^^^^ ''''« ^^^""^y ^^^^ '« ""«* "^''^y some occult way til this Is due to the miser- - '"easoned \sith, they will not lay down, as a able Government and the miserable policy wlilch, for the time being, prevailed in this country. Now, Sir, no sane man, standing up bi'fore a number of sane men, will venture basis, that we must get along together in tills countiy ; we do not ask that any class shall go scot free of taxes and burdens, while others pay au undue proportion ; we that argument. Every one is open, In his '*'* ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^""'^ ^^^'^^ ^e "e^"y calmer moods, to the opinion, to the convic- tion of the truth, that. If the prices of cereals in the country are low, they are low from certain abnormal causes, and that they are probably temporarily low. Tin; PAKTV J'l!0PAf;.\MtA. burdeniHl while other sections arc heavily loaded ; but that class or section, wherever it may be, must, proportionately to its strength, bear its Just and equal portion of the burdens that an* necessary In order to carry on the affairs of this country, aud to give It permanence aud durability. I tlilnk it is an unfortunate thing that In order to gain But, whatever may bo the cause, the fact power, and m order to nialce a noiiit against of these low prices of cereal products their opponents, advantiige is being taken of throughout the country at the present the present state of things to pri'ach a doc- time, adds point and strength to tlie discus- tiine in tliLs country wlilch. if it is a:lhered sion, and is used to spread dissatisfaction and to, means disiniption, aud is opposed to the discontent. Of course, an Opposition always \ on'y policy which can give us true has open to itself to take advantage of all permanence and tnie prosperity. Sir, these things. All things are fair In politics, j I wish to notice In passing that these men it is said ; and I suppose any average party , preach certain doctrines, they go before the would take advantage of all Uie clrcumstanois people with certain statements ; they go be- that arose, and as they arose, to make sentl- fore the people with Inferences from those ment against their opponcmts and In favour statements, some of which they draw, and of themselves. And, Sir, of late, and with some of which they do not draw, but all of greater vigour, supervening on these things, which they allow, and others which they has come an active propajranda In tliis country ! force to be drawn ; and I believe that there and in the country alongside of as, the end are people who go out from the meetings and aim of which, no, I will not put it tliat way j addressed by hon. gentlemen opposite with the —the result of which, whetlier it Is the aim ' Arm belief that there Is some way by which or not, Is to make people unduly discontented and unduly unrestfiU. In this country every- body acknowledges the geographical dilfl- culties, its great extent, its sparse popula- tion, its different races and creeds, Its differ- ent sections with their different distribution of the resources with which nature has en- dowed them. But I hope every man also re- cognizes— If he does not he ought to— that this country, If it Is to remain a country, if It la to we can carry on all our services In this coun- try, by which we can have perfect free trade, and will not have to pay a dollar of taxation. Now, If hon. gentlemen oppo- site can define and point out any means or method by which that can be done, well and good ; but. If not, the doctrine that ought to be preached In every school-house, on every platform, Is that there is no way to build up a country In its pubUo works, look- 16 Ing after Its pultllc sorvlct-s, jrlvlnj; It the lin- provt'incntH which the pt'oplc nt'<'«l in the race of progress alongside of other ( ountrles to-day, no other way than by taxation ; and that If tho people will not bear reasonable burdens, they cannot expect to promote tho building up and the Improvement of the j country. I think the Canadian people are I BeD<«lb'e enough and strong enougli to accept that dtctrine, and to work under the im- pulse and in the spirit of that doi-trliie. So that I tliink, having statinl tliese things. 1 have stated what leads to the imrest. tlie dis.satlsfaction. the agitation upon the tarllT question ; and 1 have tried to stat«> them fiiUy. I llli: PO.sniON oK Till'. (ioVKIJNMKNT. j We do not S!iy Ihjit the policy Wi- adopted In 1S78, In the exact degree of protection that was plac»>d upon tlie coun- try at that time must be unvarying, must nevor bo changed ; but, out of all tliese causes I have mentioned, the feeling of un- rest e.xista. and it reaches this House of Par- , llament, and that feeling will be met by the Government frankly, honestly and fairly. So that the Government, while it wishes to give due weight, and no more than due weight, to any one of these causes, and to ;aiy one of these complaints ; while It ac- knowledges their varying force, varying in proportion to their merit and their strength ; although the Government does not intend to be either frightened or forced Into doing something which It does not believe to be right ; the Government tak(>s its stand to- day, and is Avilling to have it known evei-y- where. What it proposes to do will be dono after the most careful, and earnest, and due consideration, not extended beyond a reasonabh; period — and will be that which, as a matter of trade and tariff policy. Is best for this country as a wholi-. It proposes to do what Is best for all classes counted together, whilst giving due weight to the Importance of, and to the position of, » ach class, and varying the burdens accordingly. It proposes to adopt a policy and to carry out tho pai'ticular lines of that policy, with due regard and consideration as well to the in- teiTial conditions of Canada as to her position amongst other ccmntrles of tlie world under the present conditions of ti-ade and tariffs. These are the lines, and to what end ? It may . be a-^ked, what does Uie Government propose to do. for tlHv«e are generalities ? 1 grant tJmt thes«> are generalities. It has been a dlB- cusslon of genenilitles, or of principles. If you like to denominate them as such. Then the first question conies from my hon. friend, \i>i KiiKi: TiiAhi;. Will tho Government adopt free trade ? My answer to that is. no. I know 1 disappoint ray hon. friend in not takhig up the pet idol and dream of his heart, the one Idea which is the l)riglit star of his existence, towards which he treads his devious way, sometimes in one country, and sometimes In another, from pla^ form to platform, but always with that bright particular star In sight ; now, I be- lieve, only fifteen years distant is this bright particular star of free trade, the freest of free trade. There are some considerations why the Government does not propose to adopt free trade. The first is the requirements of the revenue. A stronger man than I am, a deeper thinker than my hon. friend, a man In mental power who towers among the best, hiis stilted It, and from a less prejudiced stand-point, perhaps, because he put It from tli(» stand-point of hon. gentlemen opposite, and he has challenged any man to show how. In this country, now, or for many years to come, any scheme of free trade could be adopted which could be worked, and he ex- piesseti his conviction that the circumstances of tho coimtry precluded Us adoption, and pre- cluded tho direct taxation which must neces- sarll.v follow upon Its adoption. The require- ments of tho revenue prevent It ; $28,000,000, outside of earnings, have to be raised in this country for its current services. I Invite hon. gentlemen to come down to particulars, and to show to this House and tlie comitry how they will effect siwings In the different items of expenditure so as to reduce that ;niiount liy a very large sum. Small savings ('.•in lie made, small savings are being made, hut that the services of this coimtry require much, and are so Important they cannot be stopp far as absilute and dirict, pn)tc('llon !■« conci'rned. (levelop(>d In this country larpo and varied Interests. Nobody denies that. A vested capital of ?;5rj;?,(X)0.0(K), einploylnj,' .".(W.OOO hands, at a yearly wnw of $1()iMmXMMH) and a develop- ment of the wealth of the country to the value of $90,000,000 annually— these are facts 8tate Gn>at P.rltiln or the United States, with their centuries of wealth behind tliein, witli their gr^-at skill, Mith their enormous markets, with tlieir great production which finds a market in tlie world In such larjLjo quantities. So that these have to be taken into ac&nmt. Have not theso Industries grown since 1878 ? The figures I have given show that they have. They have kept population in tUg country Some hon. MEMBERS. Hear, hear. Mr. FOy TER. I am glad that hon. gentle- men opposite entertain that idea. Those In- dustriej have kept population in tills coimtry which would otherwise liave left it They are keeping to-day in this country an Inoreaa- ing niunber of hamLs in employment, jind the hu'rwuse«l employment has lt.s benetlt In the way of wages, in the way of prcMhiction, and so is felt throughout tlie whole country. We know from observation that tliese ludiistrlea and this development of our Industries has gone on rapidly since 1878. I do not need furtlier to enlar„'e that idea. Let each iion. g(>ntJeman ask liLs own ol)servation juid ex- periencx', and lot hini coiit/ast 1878 with to- daj-, and see the varieties of articles we manu- facture to-day which were not manufactured l)y us then that the proportion of articles In use in this country, now oi)tiiine(l from onr manufacturers, is much larger ; let him look over the whole field and take his own experi- ence, and he will find, though In some cases there have been failures, in some cas(>s there have been changes and vicissitudes, yet. on the whole, a groat start luis been made with re- spect to the m.'inufacturing indastiles of the comitrj', and a great stiirt made in develop- ing in that way the resources of the country. Do hon. gentiemen ask tlie history of tli<> im- ports of raw material ? It is cout'iined in i these figures :— Impokts Haw Matkki.m.s, lS(i!i, 1S7!I ami l.SlfJ, anim'i;i;'knta(.k ok im iskask. ISC)!!. 1879. IS! 12. Per cent I'cf n.'llt of uf liiiTiiisf riKi''nse IX'.)2 I lSlt2 I over over 18()!». ' 187!>. Wn,,l ■ • •.... Llis. Cdtt.m " Hidfs .s .-_'0S s:il,-iss !i(t,.v<(; *i'i,ii."i('.,!iiA i;o;{,-_>7t; t,!i7(;,7."iS '.•,7l'o,7(is l.L'IIL',S!HI 1. •«.•-' 11 i!i;t,i7!i tL'-J, !!:.'.".. 7 7!) •">;ii.-_'7s lo.224,nSi; 4(;,;iL'L',:)L'.") i,s;<7.iii-_' 7;fo,ti.'.7 S77,;t«!i +:m,ii>i,7.si 1.0! (4, (■.;(.■) :3 per cent ; an country. These are the llgurea : Canadian Indi stuiks iku Cknsi s Ukti kns. issi. 1M»1. Variatioti. Iiicn-iiMt'. ; IVr (flit. \miiliir i>( f-tal'lUliHU'iitH., ('.•i|iilal iiivfti'l .Nuiiilifi of I'liiploytcH NV;i>;f< I'jiiil CiiHt "if raw iiiiitcriiil , Value uf |)i«)iliuts 8" 1!l,!IL'.'t 7.".,:t;s 1- •J.">.H|.'i r.i -s Hi."),;to-_'.(iL';t ;t.'i;i.s;!ii,,si7 ls,s,:.:i».l'.u lu- L'.">j.!t;ci ;ft;7,si;."i IllMiHO ll- 1;» iV.t, !•_'!», (MC' '.l!l,7.i',7'"'> lti."i,7resent time, I grant you, by a rea.souable and I hope a sutttclent protection.— that we cannot open \\\\ these, to the unlimited com- petition of old manufacturing countries like tlreat Britain and the United States of Amer- ica, witliout sweeping away the largi-r [iro- portion of our industri4il doveloimient, ami reaping all the want, and loss, and misery that will accnie. And after all what better woiild we be olT if we did this ":' We would not be so well olT. because some time, sooner or l;iter. if Canada is ever to be ;i great country, and it is, it would come to the con- clusion again that we would have once more to reverse our policj'. and that we would have to develop our own inilustries and re- sources. No countiy in this world at the present time can be great on one branch of work alone, and this country of ours, taking Its resources and capaliilities into ac(!ouut, would be guilty of the lieiglit of madness, If It left evei-jtlilng to the pursuit of agri- culture and the natural products, so to speak, and did not strive to lie a manu- facturing counti-y, giving employment to Its own people, and working up its own resources I as well. The position of the Government Is I clear upon that Will my hon. friend make i his position equally clear ? 1 have read his Hamilton speech and his Toronto speech, and for the life of me I do not know whei'e ho stands to-day, and there are himdredg of 19 tbotuands of people In this country as well who cannot put tlielr linger upon the trado policy of my hon. frlond opposite and tell what It means. At one time he 1? all free trade ; let the taxes take care of themselves. At another time he says : We must ko slowly, free trade Is In the distance, and we will come to It gradually. While at another time he Is In favour of unreatrlctetl reelprocity wltli the Unlte pet idea, T was going to say, of my hon. friend from Xortii Hmce (Mr. Mc- X(>iin— preferential trade ; and the pet idea of many other gentlemen besides— an Idea which, however imich It may bo laughed at by hon. gentlemen opposite, Is an Idea which, In Its intrinsic worth and In tlie In- creasing favour and fervour of acceptance which It Is meeting at tho hands of thlnlcers and workers, ought not to bo laughed at, which cannot bo scouted, which has much to commend It Even tliough It be not a present possibility, even though it be years in tho futaire. It is an Idea which has Us ground- work ill a thought wider than self or the sellish interest of any ono country. It Is an Idea which iu Its scope lifts ono, wliicli gives one an Idea of Imperial potency and dura- biUty and strength, which is a good leaven to tliniw into tlK' lower political life of .iny coun- try— an idea of continents and Islands span- ning tho globe, with climate and productions and resources of inlinite variety, with great mental capacity and endowment, with all the InstrHuientaiities of a great trade ready to hand, and with a commercial fleet that fills every sea. I say to you, Mr. Speaker, that that idea, if it could be re- alized, would be the finest, the highest and 20 tho noblest thlnt? that has Ikh-ii conwntratcd Into political or imlilic actlmi siticr tlit> world bail a b(>KlnnliiK. I am not Koiu>; to nny that It is a pro8ont possibility, but I am Koln^ to Hay tlmt It is ho potent an idi-a that It is well for Canada juid well for fv«!ry British w)im try to hold tho stronnost vanta;;o pctsitlon for \tM possiblu adoption; and wi> do not luiow how Noou chun^'eH lu public opiuin to- day, although In part what wan to bu done at that time has been very largely ilone, especially as to tlie amalgamation of our terri- tories and the opening up of our means and facllldes for tmnsport. We believed. In 1878, that a reasonable protection upon Industries which could fairly have a chance to plant and develop themselves in this country, was the only means by which to lift tho country out of tho condition It was in iu 1JS78— and we ought never to forget tliat condition ; and, on account of that policy, great strides have been made along the lines 1 havo referred to. A KKAsoN.uii.i: i'itoTi;« riiiN 1(1 hi; kkit. So that tlio Government iiropoeos— and it takes the people Into full conlideiice -not to abandon tl;o i)rlnciplo of fair and reasonab'.o protection to the Industries of tliis coun- try. Now, as I Bdid before, the Govern- ment takes its stand on tho ground that all classes should licur proportion- ately equal burdens ; and if, in the course of tJie Investigation which is now taking place, and which will bo continued for some fur- ther time, it is foimd that burdens press unduly on any class or section of tho country, it will bo t'le bounden duty of this Government to remedy that, and, if possible, equalize those burdens. If in tlie course of that invest illation wliicli is now going on, and which will be continued for some short time yet before a conclusion Is reached, it be found that protection has been given to some Industries which have no prospect at oil of ever becoming fairly rooted in this coimtry, It will become a ques- tion with this Government, whether or not It is not best to drop hot-houso protection and give simply the reasonable and sufficient | protection which Is necessary In order to e8-| tabllsh Industries wliich, when established, will give some assurance of permanency and continued prosperity. These, then, are the pi-osent lines. To ligliten tlie .scale of tax- ation, In so far as possible, and In doing that. we must mako up our niln refiLso expenditure on works which It would not 1m • proper for a wise and economical Gov< nmieiit to s<'i on foot and continue ht the country ; to, an far as pocMlble, adapt tho scale of protection to legitimate industries luid to what is reason- ably necessary in order to OHtabllsh and pro- tect them ; to use the niw materhil of the (Miuntr}', In so far as It can be uHed, and to extend tho free list as far as possible, con- sistent with Un> revenue requirements of tho country, In order to bring about this leswenetl t:ixatlon and this less««n(Hl scale of protectton, which, Irsscned and tMiujilizfd In that way, may be Just as effective, and more eflfecdve. after the ch.ange has been made, than it was I H' fore. j AN INVK.STI<;\TH»V TO UK MAKi;. What I want to state Ls thb», tliat infonnatlon has lM>en gatlienM'. by the (loverniient. par- ticularly by myself, during the pn.st year, and that Information will bo giitJiered duiing tho coming season ; that tlio Minister of Trade .ind Commerce and myself, with Mio two levol- iiended business men who control tho ('ustonis and the Inland Revenue, propose during tho coming year not only to listen to the com- plaints and the phvis of people who come to Ottawa to see us, but wo propose to supple- ment that by a personal Inspection and Investi- gation of the various Industries of the country. Wo propose to go further. Wo propose that it shall not be said that only one cla.ss has the e.'ir of the Government, but tliat every cla.«s, tlie agricultural, the artisan, the manufac- turing:, the producing, or any cla.ss, .shall have abundant opportunity to mako out it>< c;ise iM'fore the Government or fioine member of the Govermnent and to hav(> its plea ,ind its grievances taken into consider- ation, and that tho action of the Government shall be based upou tiie conclusions thus arrived at TIIK TAHIFF TO HI-: i!i:visi:i«. During the next session of Parliament we propose to be ready, when Parlliiment opens or shortly thereafter, to bring down a teiriff for this country revised on those lines, which shall not— and I want to make that plain, so 22 that no feeling of panic may take placo In the country— which shall not de- stroy and Injure Industries which are in this country to-day and which need reasonable protection in order to keep them up, but it will not assuredly, on the other side, give a measure of protection to any industry which will give it the opportunity of taking unduly from the pockets of the people by creating combines and monopolies, and thus making itself a burden instead of a benetit to tlie coimtry. So much witli reference to the future policy of the Government. We intend to be plainly and franlvly understood. In that view, we ask our friends in the House to assist us in our investigation, by spread- ing the informatJon broadcast, tJiat every per- son can have access to tlie GoveninKmt and can Lay his plea before them, and that, having tho benetit of their collective wisdom, we may arrives at a conclusion which shall ('ml>i).ly th(» best for tlie country under its present circumstances and tlio best for tlie country in its immediate future. Certain things have been very strongly pressed upon us. Certiin tilings have especially been urgcxl with refer- ence to their immediate remedy. Every jier- son who undertak(>s tlie revision of the tarltf, especially of a tariff framed on a protective principle, will very soon lind out how. wherever he attempts to touch one single branch of industry in order to its relief and help, ho immediately comes against the wires of other industries. Some hou. M1'LMHI]1{S. Hear, hear. Mr. FOS'l'EIl. Tliore is no doubt of it. We do not for a moment wish to leave that out of consideration. It is true, and it is a truth wliich prompts us to make haste slowly and to thoroughly consider all industries before wo venture a conclusion and adopt a policy witli reference to particular industries. So that, therefore, careful re- vision Is necessary, and many pleas, fair in tliemselv(>.s, have liad to be shut out this yoar. We ask these people to wait the con- clusion of the (?oming summer, and of the general revision wliicli is to take place, when they will find their grievances, if they are Just, remedied, and tlieir complaints, if m(r all the information with respect to these matters tliat It can, to submit to the House at its ne.Kt session. And I desire also to state, so far as the Government is con- cerned, sliould tliis investigation lead It to take a certain course. It will not consider that it is debarred from taking the course that is shown to 1)0 imperatively necessary because any persons have, last year or this year, on the existing stat(> of tilings, bought limits or invested in tinil)er lands In our country. Tho supreme consideration must be our own forest resources, and how to preserve them. I am not saying what conclusion will be reached ; I cannot say, becatise the full Information Is not before th(> Government or the House, but we merely wish to enter the plea that, if the revision should be deemed nenessai-y It will not be considered by the Government to be 23 debarred by the fact that limits have been bought or purchases have been made on condi- tions which now exist. Tin; DITV ON OILS. A stronj: agitition has been brought to the notice of the Government with reference to olLs. We have heard that debatwl in this Houso. Hon. gcntlimen ou both sides of the House have talien divers positions with regard to tills duty. No cool, reasonable man, on either side, having thor- ouglily looked into It. can come to any other conclusion than that it is a most difficult ques- tion. We have to do justice to an Industry which has been, from ISdS particularly, tho pet of Oovemments, so far as protection Is concerned, which enjoyed the caressing care of the old Government before IST^i, tlie Ivindly encouragement of tlie Goveniinent from 1874 to 1879, and the continued favour of the Gov- rniment from 1871) up to tlie present time. This industry, though I grant you that Ic is very largely local, has a strength and po^er in its plea which appeals to eveiy sentiment of a Canadian, and would move every Canadian to go just as far as he could In order to save the wealth and preserve tlie industry of the people, inihvidually, who have carried on that business and are carrying it on to-day. On the other side, there is the claim of the consumers, who demand that the oil sliall be reduced in price, and who aslv that tlio pro- tection which is now given sliall bo either entirely removed or reduced. I am not going to add to the discussion of that subject by going into the merits of the case. After hon. gentlemen who understand it have j spoken as they have in this House, the merits of tliat question ouglit to lie fairly well understood. 1 am simply going to say what position the Gov- ernment take with regard to It. TherQ Is a straight protection on oil of 7 ', cents per | imptrial gallon, exactly cnt to the 6 cents per wine gallon which was upon it before the present rate of 7! per Imperial gallon was made. There is, outside of that. a conthtion imposed upon trade and trans- port which has the effect of protecting tliat industry to a large extent, po.ssibly to the extent of 2 cents or 3 cents per gallon, arising from the fact that transport is limited to certain ve.s.sels and In certain directions, and that the oil is subject to inspection, of coiu-se. ', This Is outside of tho straight protection, and what the Government propose to do, and I they have thought over this matter very care- fully, Is to propose to this House that the ' transport sliall be freed and that the straight duty shidl remain for the present as It Is. In that way, tho abnormal and hidden pro- tection, so to speak, wdl be taken away and transport will be left free to modern methods, and at the same time a large, I acknowledge it, and, I hope, a sufficient protection will be left to tlie industry, enough to serve it for the present at least. lilNDIM. IWINi:. One other question lias lieen press 'd upon the Government, luid that is the duty on hinder tA\'ine. This is complained of especially by certain sections of the country, by tho farmuig class, almost us a imit. That question has bcvii del la ted in this House, as well, and 1 am not going into it.s merits. Tho protection given to the industry in the Unite per cent. A disadvantage from which tlu' manufacturt'rs suffer In this country is in our later h.irvest and the consertainly duo to the House, after ton days of a long dis- cussion upon tills tariff poUcy, for asking It at this late period in the di.scussion to listen a second time to any remarks from myself. However, it becomes necessary that I sliould pay .1 few words, not only in reply to my hon. friend wlio has just sat down, but also in reply to several points which have been raised by lion, gentlemen who Iiave spoken from thi> licginning of the debate imtil this time. Happily, I am not under obligation to occupy the attention of Uiis House at very great leiigtli in that respect, for neither tlie cogency nor the novelty of the argmnents which li;ivo been addressed to the House liy hon. genllciiiou opposite call for, in most cases, any lengthy reply ; and 1 must also say that most of those arguments have been fully, fairly and completely met, not only many times before In this House, but during this present debate by hon. gentlemen who sit on this side. IS IT ii!i;i; ■riJAiiK 1 First, I wish to pay my respects for a few moments to the hon. gentleman who has just taken his seat. My hon. friend has been going about the cotmtry sounding the praises and trumpeting the coming triumph of free trade. To-night his vaimted free trade with all Its breadth of vision and majesty of thought has resolved itself into trade with one country, to the exclusion, by restrictions, of trade with every other in the world. Be- fore hla Toronto and Hamilton audiences he breathed the spirit of a wider atmos- phere. Ho pointed to the battlefields of the United States, and he declared that there had been fought and won the second victory, not for " freedom of trade " as he haltingly tells us to-night, but for " free trade " and rising on the height and expanding on the breadth of that glorious victory for free trade in the United States, he unfolded the curtains of prophecy and declanMl tliat the third great coimtry in the world to adopt free trade wouhl be the Dominion of Canada. But to- night, Sir, my hon. friend talks small, very small, indeed. His vision is blindtHl to tlie won- derful commerce ot Great Britain, his vision is blinded to the wonderful scope of a com- mercial world bi-yoiid tlie seas in every otlier country in tlie globe, and he is willLtig, for the sake of luirestricied free trade with the United States to raise a Chinese wall against Great Britain and every other couuto' iu the world. For in all his long speech to-night has ho used two iiaragraplis of argument in fa- vour of free trade, and lias not liis whole speech been an apology for unrestricted reciprocity, upon which he has already met significant (h.'feat and upon wiiit;h he wi!l re- ceive significiuit defeat yet in the future? The hon. gentltMiian did several things to- night. He wius pleasant and sometimes witty. l)ut at no time very forceful iu his remarks 01 liis arguments, if I am able to judge. Ho told a very good story about King .Tames, liut he sliowed lie did not pVoperly appreciate it, because he made the application wrongly. He should have made the application to him- self and his friends, who have brought up these Iheorios year after year, from commer- cial union to continental free trade, and al- though the people have not agreed with them, altliougli the people have rejected them, ' altliough the people have conclusively re- solved against them by their votes, yet hon. gentlemen opposite, like Iving James, still declare that theise exploded theories are the only tnio ones, and they still deploy them before tJie public view again and again. Tilt: KXODIS. The hon. gentleman found fault with a new law of gravitjition, wliich, he said. I have dis- covered, and he compared me to a second New- ton. There must be, he says, according to my doctrine, some centre of attraction out in the west that draws people inevitably from 26 the enst towards the west He said he did not believe that could be true, because the fact was that the peo- ple instead of going fr<;m east to west were going from north to south. I woiUd advise my hou. friend to talce a map and look along the Hues of parallels of latitude running through Quebec, Ontario and New Brunswick mid the United Spates, and he will lind two trends of emigration or transfer, from this country and from the ciistern states. He will lind a trend gcdng pretty nearly due west, along the same zone, along pretty nearly the same lines of latitude; and he will tind a trend going from north to south so far as these provuices are I'onoerned and to tlie United States ou tlie south of us. My lion, friend, although he treated this in a light and airy way, and not at all. as 1 tJiink. according to the merits of the suliject. will lind, if he deals fairly and honestly with it. that thes(! trends are not fanciful, hut they are real, that he cannot get rid of them by ridicule and by any pretended law of gravi- tation I have discovered or not discovered, for those two trends are absolutely lixed by two things,— land hunger, which t.ikes peo- ple to the great prairies of tliu west, and employment himger, which takes them to the crowded factory towns to the south of us. If there are 1,000 people who go from Canada to the west, 9l>9 of them go from land hun- ger; and if there are 1,000 who go from C;in- ada to tlie factory towns to the south, O'JS) go for employment to towns where industries hum, and where the wheels of the factories resound from day to day. My lion, fiiend may make fuu of my theory of gravit;itlon so long as ho ple;ises ; thi'Si' are, I think, common sense facts, which ho an 1 other people will have to face, and of which most people will admit the force and cogency at once. If tliat be true, he must not ridicule me because I have explained the movement of population upon these two principles, upon tliose two sots of facts. I think he will And them to be true, and tlie two lessons I gather from them are, that Canada lost In the early migration, because she had not a great west of her own where people could appease their land hunger ; and that if she loses her popuLition in the other dir ctloii to-day. It Is because we have not had, and have not sufficient factories antl industries in order to give employment to the people who hunger for employment. So much with regard to that point. The hon. gentleman, however, has foimd a sclentltic and philosopliical rea- son, and It la this : Peoph! do not go west because they hunger for land, nor do they go south because of want of employment In the cotton mills and factories as so many of his own countrymen do. Oil. no, there is another reason : They go west, and they go south, for this, and this alone ; that in this country they are sadly ojipresscd, and they lly south and they fly west to the land of freedom, where there are no burdens, and where all conditions are light and ha[)py and peaceful. Xow, that may satisfy my hon. friend, and he may prefer that, to my science of gravitation, but 1 doubt if there are many sensible men who will agree with him in that explanation. The people are oppressed here ! In what way V By taxes ? Wliy, the hon. geutleiiian exploded his own tlieory, because ho proved to his own satis- faction, and he must have proved it to the iiilinite disromliture of my lioti. friend from North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton), and my lion, friend from South Oxford (Sir lUchard Cart- wright) ; Ik; proved that tlie farmers in the United States of .\merica. that tlie pci^jtle of the Uniteil States, except the manufacturers, were ground down into dust and ashes by the fiscal policy of that cuunlry. Oi»j»ress(Hl here because a moderate .".() jier C(>nt tariff is upon them ; aiul they tly away where they can feel the Ughter weiglit of a 00 per cent tariff I Oppressed here, where their direct taxes are light, and going then' where they can have a lighter burdi>n of three or four times the amount of direct taxation upon them I 'Wli.v. my hou. friend must have taken leave of seriousness when he advanced an argument of that kind. Well, Sir, If he did not prove that this was true, to his own satisfaction, he evidently did prove to his own satisfaction that he told a witty antl fanciful stoiy, when he brought In that personage of old, who took up his time ra cmmtliig '.107 widows, and on»> doulitful ont>. What that may have had to do with the sub- J(H!t before us I cannot .say, but I am bound to assert this : That If that soUtaiy watcher had been my hon. friiMid who has Just sat down, he would not have let that doubtful woman go until he had foimd out her exact status. 2(1 Tin-; cKNsi s KnanKs ox imhsthiks. Tho hou cc'ntlomiin hesitates to believe certain fl^^ires of the census. He is an eclectic, Is my hou. friend. Ho takes up the Hulj' Bible, and he takes out one [lart or the doctrine and hi says : That suits nic ; I beUeve in the divinity and liisiiiratinn of the Scriptures. He tunis over anolht-r leaf. Ah, this does not suit hhn, and he says : I do not believe in the divinity or Inspiration of the Scriptures. He takes up the census retm-ns and as he chants his doleful dirges about tlie exodus, and [)roves thetii from llie census, .'ih then the census Is divinely inspired, and It la authoritatively correct. There can be w< doubt al)out its accuracy at all then. Tint when he comes to the Industries, comiiiled iniiU'r the very same rules, by the very same set of pi'ople, pul)llsh(Ml in tlu^ same printing office, and mider the auspices of the s:niic Government, he din-lares that it is full ot wickedness, and all hypoci-isy, and lie will iinc believe It :it .-dl. But my hou. friend can not do that. As with tlie National Policy, wliicli he tallvs aliout so often, .'ind \vliicli In- and his followers say umst stand as a wTmic or f^o down ao a whole, so it is witli llic census. It nuist stand as a whiil(> or ;;i) down as a whole, and my hou. friend, according,' to the ar^iments wlilch he uses, cannot simply tako what suits him and leave what does not suit him. Well, Sir, the lion, f^euric man says that we may have— tlio cc■usu^< states that we had— an Increase of $92,000,- 000 in the c;ipital of industrial establisli- nients ; but he says we do nor know liow much was wjitered stock, we do not know how much had been siuiiv i)efore. I suppose If he looks back to 18S1 he can umke ruc sixuw riMuarks with rej^ard to tlie census oi that*y(*ar. Standiii;; up In ISSl, and lookiii.tr at the increased fifnire of the amount of invest- ment in these Industries, he could have said then : You do not know whether that is rif,'lit or not, a good deal of that represents watereii stock ; it does not show wliat has iieeu sunk before. Well, I tliink these thiujrs would probably be about even. If they hold in the case of the year ISOl, tliey imist iioid wKli reference to the census of 1881, and, after all, tho average deduction would be al)out fan-. l'AI!Mi:i;s AM) I'AliM VAI.l'IOS. But tlie hon. gentleman has a wonderful theory. I think he must have learned it from my hon. friend from South Oxford (Sir Richard Cartwrlght), who has lately picked up some wonderfid phrases : Displacement of wealth Is not the creation of wealth. I will come to that a little later. My hon. friend's theoi-y is : Tliat though there may be an Uicrease in the industrial estaiilishments, tiiere lias been a wonderful decreas(! i" the value of farmers' lands. He .says it is 2."» per cent, taking it all througii, and to his own satisfaction he states that there Is a decrease of $l'J."j,000,000 In the gross. He proves him- self as oi).servant and as particular in liiat re- spect jis did the lone watcher for these 907 wid iws. He declares that the farmers liavo lost $lJ.'.,0()n,0()0, whLcii more than over- balances tills gain of !!;9J,000,000 for the manu- facturers. Well, let me asjc : Have the f.iiiuers' values decreastxl i)i'cause the cotton inllls and tiie sugar retineries, and the Iron foundries, iiud other industries have been built up, have carried on certain establish- ments, paid certain wages, and thereliy pro- vided a market for the farmers' products, and added to ills returns V Is that the rea.sou '.■' In other words, would tiie faruier.s' value in lands have advanced, or have been kept from this depreciation, if thero had been no cotton mills and no Iron foundries in this country ? I tiilnk not. I think that you will tind that in every town wiiere there is an enterprising com- niunlty they art; anxious for the establish- ment of industries within the precincts of that town, and a town or city Is aUve to-day every time that a certain industry is looking for a location. Tliey give bonuses In onTer to get that industry .within tiieir lluuts. Why '.■' Because they feel tliat if industries come, and capital builds them uj), men and women are eiuployed, and thereby the mar- kets of tlie surrounding country are lielpea Iw the e."ctra demand for the products of tlio soil. So, Mr. Speaker, I think that my hon. friend has committed a perfect non seciuitur hi that case. !i;92,000,000 advance in tho industrial capital Invested ; .^l^.'i.OOO.OOO, as he says, depreciation In farm values, and the one, he tolls us. Is the con- sequence of the other. Sir, If he Is correct in what he says with reference to the !?TJ.").00b,- 000 depression, had W(» had no industries in this conntiT, that i?12.-),000,000 might have been $200,000,000. But, Sir, my hon. frlena saw the weakness of his argument, and as no attempted to prove that this depression in 27 farm values came from a protective tariff, so ho logically was obligoil to go on to sliow that the same thing took iilace In the United States. That was a hard and ornel task for my hon. frhmd. Where were his bowels of mercy ? Kvon at that very iiioincnt, he looked straight Into the eye of the hon. gen- man from North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton) who, the other day, took liotirs to prove that the farmers of the United States were iirosjx'rdus to a iiiMxiiiHiin, iiiid that their lot was as happy and iis peaceful as ir could l)(>. Here coiues on my iconoclast friond to-niglit. and, witlin\U a shred of [lity, without a single impulse of sympathy, ho knocks to pieces the house which my hon . friend had erected, and declares that in tlie T'nited States of America tlie farmers' lot is terrible. Ho read out the pictmv, .ns dark as Erebus, very same coaditions, and under the very same tiiriff. My hon. friend cannot deny that. Well, lie saw that tliere was anotlier flaw to his argn- menf. Then he cited En.i;land, to wliich lie declared his opponents would point where farm l.iiids have depreciated. Now, there is no protection in England, and he could not give that re.'isou fen- the depreciation there. 'I'ho sequence of ids argument would lead him lnevital)Iy to this : that if a le.sser degree of protection in Canada destroys the farmei's to a certain extent, and if a larger degrc" of protection in tlie T'nited States destroys them still tiiore. wheri^ shall we find the p:ir,idise in whlcli they do not suffer rhe same de- preciation and destruction, but in which they are prosperous and happy ? ]:vidently in a free trade country ; and the hon. gentli?- man should have been able to point to the happy and prosperous lot of the farmers of Groat Britain. He could not do it. If the farmers in the United Strifes have h.-id h.'ird times, harder than we, and If our farmers have hiid hard times, yet, if you want to find tlie hardest of hard times, the most depressed of depressions, the most unliappy situation of agriculture, you have only to go to Great Briuiln, the home of free trade. But my hon. friend had to find a reason why his argiunent did not work there, and of nil reasons he gave one which I shoiUd have supposed he would have been most carefiU to steer clear of. What is his argument ? Land, he says, is all niono- {Hjlised in England at least it used to be ; the nobhmien have got it ; the aristocrats have made deer ptirks of it ; they will not allow the land to go into ctdtivatiun ; and what should 1)0 tlie effect V That tJie Utile laud that does go into cultivation ought to r.ite at liigh values. That Is the inevitable result of h."s argument ; but the hon. gentleman says that these aristocrats gobble up the land and hold it for deer parks, .and if a fanner has an aero of free land or land tliat he pnys a rent for, these aristocrats carry tlieir siiiieful feeling so far that they grind him down with taxation. The argument wiU not work. Tlie hon. gen- tleman showed how the rental price of land In England has diminished ; l)ut if he will read more on that subject, if he will go to Engl.and and travel there, ho will find that to-day land owner after land o\\'ner offers to tenants their land without the rent of a single penny If they will only keep it in order uml take care of it, and pay its tithes, and they can- not find fanners to take it evt'u at that price. Tliat is so ; 1 know it to be true. Well, Sir, it is a favourite method of argument wiih lion, gentlemen opposite that when they eamuji tind real men to knock dowii they will set up straw men to knoi'k them down ; and so my hon. friend, liavLng foundered ou the argument in regard to the farm values, gravely declared that the .National I'olicy had for its promoters men who held forth to the people tliat the National l^olicy would bring the price of wheat up to ^l.r)0 per laisliel. Well, .Sir, it may be that .some misguided [lersoii In an exuberance of enthusiasm ou the stump in a moment of weakness may liave said it would do this. II>a. gentlemen opposite! have their inomenis of wealcness In tlint respect. I mj'- self have heard them make some most as- tounding prophecies and promises, wliich have never been, and cannot be, fullilled ; but I am not going to say that because somi; few of them failed In that direction the wliole party propaganda must alisolutely rest or fall upon the fulfilment of those prophecies. Neither is it fair for my hon. friend to say, and he cannot put it forward serl(jusly, that 28 because some person siiid thiit the National Policy would make wheat «o up to $1.50 a busbel, thewfore, the National I'olicy, not havln« done that, wheat not being at tJiat price now, the National Policy is a failure and ought no lunger to bo susUiiued. Now, lio declares openly, and he has done It cften, that no legislation can increase the price of wheat or other cereals. T?y the way, t mu5it ask my hon. friend to take particular aire of his new adherent, his youngest recruit, tlie hon. niemlHT for L'Islet. 1 Il'kI tlie curiosity to read tliat hon. member's c^rd, w^hlch he issued to his constituency. He read it to us here the oilier night. Wlia.t is Oie first line of it ? The hon. gentleman pletlges him- self to have legislation Introduced wlilch shall raise the value of the fanners' product.s, and he aLso plcKlges himself that tbe hon. leae aril authorize him to say he would introduce legislation to raise tlie value of the farmers' products ? What are the columns that he is going to let stand in this temple of pro tection ? I vaW leave that between my hon. friends. I have no doubt that they wll come to an agreement before this session is over. But, Sir, bow would frin; trade, suppose we had it to-day, increase the prices of the pro- ducts of tbe farm ? You say that the iirice of wheat is low to-day— why ? Be«iuse tlie production of wlH>at in tbe world, measured by tbe demand, is greater in proportion, and consequently tbe price falls. Bring in free trade, and wliat is it going to do ? Blast a certain iwjrtion of tlie wheat fields ; make the quantity less, and thereby bring it closer to tl*o demand, and thus raise the price ? That is the only way it can be done. But my hon. friend may have bad a fear of that, and so is not going to introduce free trade*. but only mirestricted reciprocity. i j TIIK FAIiMKIis" T.WKS. j In that case I am afraid that tbe hon. gentleman would only fall on tbe bom of his own dilemma, for be declares That once protection is introduced down goes the value of laud, while he promises the farmers that imder unrestricted reciprocity, which means a higher protection and greater restriction than we have now, the value of land and lan(^ products will rise. Well, Sir, there was a vein running through my hon. friend's remark wlilch is not a new one. It has been a s should have to meet an ar- gument of that kind. What our people eat ai*e the grains of this country, the best in the world, and of tlieso we raise a surplus. What they eat are the meats of Canada, 29 the host and flrniost in the world, and of these, too, wo have a sxirphis. Our peo[)le also consume our butter and cheese, and Can- ada can make cheese equal to that of the best cheese-prod uclng coimtry In the world, and butter equal to the best butter In the world. Tlw) eggs of the patient hen, so much derided by my hon. fiiend, an> meat and food to the farmer, and great quantities aro consumed by the laboiu'ing men. Is tliero any duty on those ? So we miglit go tlu'ougli everj'tliing tliat tlie farmer eats. What does he pay a tiix upon in the matter of food V He pays a tax on liis mustard and allspice and chmamon and cloves and things of tliat Icind, and a few cents per quar ter would repre.sent the bulli of tlie duty lie pays upon these, as far as his consumption goes, lie pays iuliuitesiniai duties on isugar the raw sugars having been made frw ; and, under tho state of tilings wliich exists this year, ho pays less for his sugar than ho would if we had no National Policy. We have tjilien the fiirmer's food ; let us con- sider his drinks. What drinks he ought to drink, according to my opiniou, aro free. His water, tea and coffee are free. If he desires to drink anything stronger— which is op- tioniil with liimself— it is a luxmy he talces, and ho has to pay for it, and we will have a tax on that so long as Canada is a coimtry. So my hon. filonil must revise his dictixm, as far as tho food is concernod. Tho piincipal items of the farmer ai-e the wood, tho brick or tho stone he uses In the con- struction of his buildings; the fuel he uses, the food he consumes, and, in*all these particu- lars, which are tho main Items of liis ne- cessaiy expenditure, where Is the coimtry in which the farmer has so bountiful a sup- ply at kis own doors and at so small a cost ? Go a littlo fm-ther, and con- sider his clotliing. There is a liirge number of farmers in tliis country, whose ordinary clothing is made of the wool shorn from tho sheep they tlieniselves raise. The fleece is washed in the running brook, Uiken to the nearest carding mill, and the yarn is spim by his own wife, and woven on his own loom, or that of the factory near by, and tho product is made into g; who dress In broad- cloth. Thev roam about tli(> streets of the largo towns and villages, and see only people who aro dressed in tweeds. If they would get in touch v.itli the piMiplc. wuuld use their eyes and go among the workiug classes, and would visit the hack settleincnt.s they would tiud the gray homespun coats and trousers made out of the wool shorn from the slieep the fanners themselves have raised and tlio wool of which was carded in tho settlement. Go to your cot- tons, if you please, go to your woollen.-^. If you wish, and I make tlio assertion hero tliat the woollen and cotton staples, mostly used by our people as clothing, are, taking quality and price together, as reasonable in prico as tliey are in any country Ui tho world. Taking quality and price together, these goods, which are really serviceable for wear— not clayed cotton, not shoddy wool- lens or tweeds or the like— but, taking them for wear and quiiUty and price, you will gi>t them in Canada equal to any country in tho world. Taking all things into con- sideration, the farmer pays tiie minimum of taxation ; and I say to you that there la no coimtry in the world wliere thi> farmer pays less taxation than ho doi's in this coun- try upon all those staple articles which go into tho consumption of liis daily life. iii:vi:Mi; and f.wAiioN. We must look out as well for Uiese gentle- men when they talk of tin- load of taxation. Taxation in this coimti-y is of different kinds. Hon. gentlemen opposite say that $30,000,000 is what we wring m taxes from the pockets of the poor peoplo of Canada. What a fraud that la as an argument— calling that tiixatlon and making the people, who know no better in some cases because they aro not learned in ligures, bi prosperity by taxation. Maybe you cannot create pros- perity or wealth l)y It, but you certainly bring the tinused wealth, you certainly bring tho national r' soiu'ces, formerly compara- tively v.'Uueless, Into a state or condition in wlilch they yield revenue, which could not be done without taxation. So it is wltli every state, with every country. When the North- west was not known ; when it was a terra Incognita to us, and we conceived the idea of buying It from tlio Hudson's Bay Company, and did buy it, and paid our !S1. (100,000 and taxed tlio people for it, my lion, friend would have told us : You cannot produce wealth l)y means of taxation. But we paid the taxation to buy the North-west and liy means of fur- ther taxation we opened it for settlement. But the thousands and millions of acres of fertile land which now and in tlie future lie open to Iho sunliglit ;ind the l)reeze with their golden crown of waving grain, will be a stand- ing refutation of tlie theory that you never can ])roduce wealth by means of taxation. But my hon. friend is not going to have any taxation ; freedom, he says, Is the goal. My hem. friend says that we must not talk of reforming tho tariff, that It is idle for me to attempt It, that I dare not attempt It, that I dare not touch the principle. Hon. gentle- men opposite seem to forget one thing, and that is, that there is a luie of distinction b(> tween a principle and a detail of that princi- ple, that there is a distinction between the tree and the twig on the tree. Suppose my hon. friend was a husbandman. He would go out into tho orchard and llnd a beautiful fruit tree, and as lie wt-nt up to it, would see some golden fruit upon it. But he would notice here a brancli which was mouldering, to use a word wliicii has come Into vogue of late. He would tlnd a sucker growth cumlng out from a part of tho tree where it should not 1)0 allowed to grow. Ho would And a branch deformed jind gnarly. My hon. friend is the kind of husl)andman, who, if ho went into the orch.ard ;nid saw a tiee of that kind would promptly take his little hatchet and cut the tree down. My lion, friend is not a good husbandman, consecpiently he would ilo that sort of thing, but the real husband- man would look at tluit tree and say : A Jlno tree ; a good trunk and fair branches ; still some mouldering brandies and some growth that slumld not be there. -Vnd he would take a sharp knife ;ind carefully cut off the defor- mities and would le.avt' the tree more beau- tiful and capable of producing more fruit. Tills husbandman would enjoy thereafter the fruits of his skill, while the husl)andmau who would act as my hon. friend, would be cast by the owner into ou'er darkne a, and condemned ever after to lis en t.> the doleful wiiilings of a party who ai"e c mi- [ monly called In this country. Grits. I rM;r.sri;iri i;i) i;i:(ii'i;n(i'iv am» assimii.a- i 'Hon u|' i \i:ii ts. I My hon. friend says that It Is false that lliey ever proitoscd an assimiliitiou of tho Canadian tiiriff to the Tnited States tariff. \\'v\\, my hon. friend has a short memory. If I were to treat tills argument with him as he tr ated the ?1.50-a-bushel-of-wheat argument 1 would convict him of insincerity at once ; and I am not sure that I ccjuld not bring It very close home to him if I had hero the notes and tho speeches tliat have been made. I will, however, admit tins, that my hon. friend had sense enough to know from the lirst tliat that wjus the weak point, and tho rock upon which the whole scheme would split, and he w.'is veiy wary of speaking of it, or coming within touch of It. But my hon. friend cannot have read the American press, he citnnot have read the utti'r.aucos of Amencjui stiitesmen, if he does not know that almost without exception tlie press and sfcitesmen of the United States have declaimed that any scheme of iinre- 32 strlcttHl roclprwlty botwoon this comitry and tilt' I'liittMl Slat(>s, Is impossihle, cxcopt updii nil aKsimilaLioii of tJif tJirilTs of the two conn- trios. I can Kivo authority after authority, by tlio hour, for that statiMiient. Everybody luiows It. Mr. CirAUIiTON. I'nKliico oui> now. Mr. FOSTIOU. 1 am not goUig to weary tills Hous«i or ln.siilt Its goo«l sense by produo- lii;r It ; but if my lion fdoml li:is a ihirsl for hifoniiiition, 1 will yivc hlui my bnik lo morrow, and he can read for an ho;ir tlu' opinioii.s of tb(> Aiiicilcan sfaitesmcu and American newspapers in that direction, and In that direction alone. ^Ir. CHARLTON. You ouKht. to havi; oome here jirepared to verifj' your statements. Mr. FOSTER, i''",; I will have something to do Avith tliiit hoii. f;eiitlem;ui before I got tlir(m^,'li. My lion. I'riciul says that no Lib- eral has said so, that no United Sfcites a 1- hereiit has said so. 1 have made my asser- tion with refereneti to tliat, and I invite hhn to e.xanUiie the records to see wheth r It le not true. AVell, my hou. friend was not satis- lie destroyed his own (MMitention. My lion, friend said— and there he touched the weak point at once —that if tJiere was a little lower tuiff in one country than in tlie other, the tendency Avould be to import goods from the coimtry wliich had the lowest tariff and smuggle them Into the country wliich had the higher tariff. Then my hon. friend from Prince Edward Island (Mr. Davlos), who so valiantly deniwl the as- similation of tariff the otlier night, is on re- cord as saying that it must be so. and tliat the United States people are not such arrant fools as to submit to a scheme of reciprocity in wliich there is not an assimilation of tariffs. ^ly hou. friend has stilted the weak point, and 1 invited him, as I have Invited them again and again, to show to tills House how they are going to arrange imrestricted re- ciprocity with the United States, and discrim- Ination against other countries, without an assluillafJon of tjirifTs. The hini. gentleman cannot do It, and there Is not a level headeil man In tlio UnltiKi States who hiis e.vpressiHl hlm.self on this nubjoi-t, who Is not in dis- agreement with lilui on that pidnt. Well, Sir, my lion, friend has one strong adherent, a man of whom not much has been heard In Uniteell had (leelare?o ajjaliist tlic course of a UCctime, tin to bre;ik with Uiat party, if Mr. Blake's familiar, and chosen, and hot duty, for yi'.irs was to rnUc, with Ills stnai;; shot. tJic ranlcs of tho Llbcral-Couservative party, JLuy bit of evldonci' that Mr. Hake jjlvos awiinst the Liboral-Oouservatlvo party is in the liui> of all his Wishes, while evcrj' bit of I'Videnco tliat he Is furcttl to give atralnst the party with which he was sO long associated, Is some- thing' wrenched from him iiiiwilllugly. and oousequeiitlj' of prici'less value iu compari- son with the evidence given apiiust the otlier side. Mr. Blake may have tliought that tlie Conservative policy of protection would lead to annexation ; but he declared in 'language that admits no doubt, that imrestricted reci- procity would cerlniuly lead tx) annexation. He said : [ M'l- III! pluii fur ciiiiiliiiiiii^r til'' twci ilfiucMts of pciiiiuiu'iicy (if tin- ticMtv ;iii(l \aii:il)ility nf tariff-, wliicli (liK'> not iiivol\i' 11 |ii:i( tical control of tlifl.ilti r (taiitfi liy till- rnitiMl States. 'I'lif ti'iidinc^' in Canaila of ninf^trictiMl frei- trade wilii tlic States, lij^'li dniies lieiiig miiintaiiieil ai,'ainst tlie I'nited Kin^rdoni woidil lie touard- |iolitii'al union. Thus far my hon. friend read and then he stopped. But Mr. Blake went on to say : .\iid tlie more siifcewsful tiie ]p|an tlii; stionger the tendeiR V. Uitliliy feasonof tlie coniinuiiity of interests, tlie interniini,'linK of iio|mlations, tlie more iMtimate business and scocial eonneetions and tlie traile and fiscal relations amountinj; to dependenev, wliieli it would ereate witli the States ; and of the trreater isola- tion and divei-^eiu-y from llritain wliieh it \miii1(1 pro- duce ; anrialso, and especially, throuj^h inconveniences expeiienced in the niaiiitenaiic f and apprehensions entertaineil as to the termination of the tri'aty. ( )ur hopes and our fears alike would draw one way. We would then indeed he "looking' to W'ashin^rton."' 'I'lie treaty once made the vantiiye f;roiind it j,'aM' would naturally lie used for the .acconiiilishmeut of its ulteiior pnr|xise ; and this political end wnuld lii> a great factor in the consideration liy the .States of Canadian \ lews iiihui chan^'es in tlii' joint tarilf, or a.s to the maintenance or termination of the treaty. The reorganiziition to which our iieigliliours look is, of course, the unification of tln' continent. That is Mr. Blal|M>cl. No manufacturer, looking to the continental market, would fix or even enlarge his capital or liusine.ss in the country of five millions at the risk of being cut off from the country of si.\tv-tive millions. F 3 ( >ui neighbiurs. ins;e«dof . ngaging in m.inufacturfs heie Would take iiur markets w ith giMHJN iiiiknufu<°turf\ itHi'lf, iId'Ic in nil n-.-iNiiii t>> ilinilit tlmt <'itiiiiilu winil'l •li-rivi' virv (fifiit iiilMiritiiK''* fii'iii mi fxtiiisiim nf ihf li»t iif liitiiirs iiiuin'il ill mtuli' H nf the foriin'r tri'nty, hii(!li us fullow-. ; Mniiiifiu tiirfw in wimkI, aKrii'iilturiil iiii|i|i'ni<'nt-<, salt, iniiural iiiln, ln'ick.x for liililililit;, liiitli III ii ks, call iiii'il iilaHtir. Iiiiiiit liiin', Iiianiifactiiiiil artirlfs nut |iru;liin> pressing foi- a inannfacturod list wider than that siiK«:esled : Sir Kijuaid 'I'iiMi iitmi's ilf-patcli to His Ivvcilifiicy tlie ( iii\crniii-( ii'luTal of ii latr date, indiciitr.t a df- nirc nil till' part of tlii' I'nilfd States to ex- tend the list uf artielis luiined in tiie 'I'liaty of lM.'it, HO as til eiiiliraee tlie artiiies of the liianilfiietiires of the t wii ciiiiiitries. 'I'lie ( iiiNerniiient of Cinada will 1m- williiijf to a>jree to siuli reciprocity to incliule liianufartiui s in wood, such as saslies, diKirs, lilinds, pails'tulis, liarrel-i, niivtclics and xaiii.'Us other articles of a !ilsts. caliiiied Kypsiini or piaster linii-..e.irtii oclins, j^'round or iiiit^iouiid, and piiiraliy. all iiiaiiufai lund articles not produced in or i-\piirti il fioiii (ircat Hritaiii to this country, to- Ketiiei witli sueli other all icle.-. as the imperial and I >iimiiiioii t ill vi I 111 rents may mutually a^jrec upon, or as may liy luiitual arran^'ciui'iit lie iiiteicd at a fixed duty to lie s|ii.(lliiil ill the treaty. il is, liowe\cr, understood that no pro|Misitioii atl'ii-liiif; the iiitro- iluctiou (if manufactured goods sliall lie tinally deter- milled upon prior to reterence to the imperial and l)ouiiinoii ( MiMiiimeiiis. As a natural production, salt may lie added to the former free list. 'J'lu' saiiio rafcfnl dcsiro wtis oxtondod at this second stage of tho proceedings to exclude articles in regard to whicli a discrimination was lilvely to occur in respect to Great Brit- tJiiu, and every precaution was talien after- wards that if this article were extended, It sboidd only bo after reference to tlie two Govoruinents. The Order lu Couucll goes on to say : Mr. Hrowii will communicate tliis \ iew to Sir Krlward 'riioriitoM, accom|iaiiied with tlie representii- tioii tliat the (iioeintueiit of Canada do not prolHi>c any iiioilitication in matter of trade and commerce wliicli would ill any way injuriously affect iiiipeiial interests. That is another stage. On 23rd April, 1874, Earl Ciiruarvon signs a despatch to Earl Dufferln, lu which ho says : Aftercoiisultationwiththisdepartiiient,Lord Derby sent a teleirrani to Sir K. Tliornton. iiiforniintr him that tlie proiiosed paper niiglit lie suliinitted to Mr. Fish, hut that the plii|Hmal- >hiiuld iint lie made :t4 UiiHf the result of the matured dicisinn of Her .Majesty's ttovernmeiit, Imt as preliminiiiy only, and Sir K. I'horntiiii was desired to ixplain tin- to .Mr. Fish. Ftirther, this sliows tho spirit of the Instruc- tloufl, tho actual Instructions, the prudent caro taken that those Instnictlons slionld not bo exc('(>d(Hl, tlio spirit of the instriU'tlons Ix'lng tliat there sliouli! be no dl.scrlininatlon against Great Hritain. 'i'liat Is one set of facts. .Now, Sir. I wisli to adduce ose(l in the United States upon other a, ides not eniinierated in said schedules. 35 ffrowtli, iinxliic')' or iiiainifnctiiK' i>f <'niiA( aii> utln ■' Clllltllf > . These two nrtlclca go together. Tlio first ono la expUcit in sayUig that the two coun- tries shjill exchange certain products, and there Is no artichi In the treaty wlilch says tljore shall bo a preferential tnatineiit ;;l»-vii to each other. And then tht." oonirnerc'' be- tween the two countries Ls extendetl on the sumo amicable lino to articles which were not mentioned tlierein to provide for moat favoured nation, but not preferential, terms to fither one or the other. Now, Kir, my contention, so far. Is this : That th(? spirit of tlie Instructions all the way through w.ia to prevent discrimina- tion aKalnst Britain, and that, when a treaty Is made, tlio treaty makes no mention of dis- crimination aK'alnst Great Itritaln. Then 1 come to (Jeorge Brown's testimony. George Brown ought to know as much about It as any other man. (Jeorge Brown made that speech after all the schcilules had been submitted, after the treaty had been com- pleted as far as It was completed, and witli full kiii)wiedj?e of the articles In the sche- dtUe, which he read In his speech only two minutes before. George Brown, read the very schedule that my hon. friend read to-night, and then, after, reading that, he expressixl himself in tliis way, as to certain objections urged against the treaty. The first iif tlusc iilijictiiiiis wliicli he riferred to was that tin' tfiaty ilisi iiiiiiiiat<e Iilacelac'"ii at a liisaihanta^'i'. and alsii t" furliid tiir iin|iiisitinii (if (lifFrrcntial diitics in f.-ivimr of tlio rniti'il .Staffs as a^;iiiist party, had sent: Sir Alexander Gait, and three others, in ISi!.". down to Washington, and tlirough them hiul offered to assimilate the Cifstoms tariffs oi the two countries, which he contended was parallel in principle and in details to what he and his friends propose to do imder unre- stricted reciprocity. The hon. gentleman made that stiitement along with the others, and it shows an equal lack of investigation and an equal lack of accuracy. I have before nu; exactly what was proposed, in a mlnutie made iu memorandum by Sir Alexander roviiii-t-» should, it is Imlit-vcd, uiidtr ordinary circiiiiista!ic«-s U- frt-*- in rofen-ni-i- to their niitund jnoductioiis ; hut as intt-mal taxfs t'xce|itioiially exist 111 the l'iiit»-a<.-cw<-r to prevent illicit trade. Memorandum " B " was given ns !in an- swer by the United States delegate.s. They givt> a list of the articles in the treaty of '■ IS."(4. and upon all of them they put less or greater duties, which they desired Cimula to p.ay in order to compensate for tlie disadvantage they claimed to be under on accoimt of their internal taxation. In mcin orandum " G " which followed, Mr. Gait re- plied : In refeience to the nietnorandmii received troiu the Committee on Ways and Mi ans, thi' provincial dele- ^'ates reffret to Ik- olili^<-i-d to state that the proposals therein contaiiu-' U]pon the pro^lui tionsof the liriti.-h provinces on their entry into the markets of the Cnited .States, are such as, in their opinion, will !».,• in some cases pii>hiliitotv. and will certainly seriously interfere with the natunii course of trade. These imiHists are so much In yoiid what the deletrates conceive to lie an eipiivaleut for the internal taxation of the I'nited States, that they are reluctantly liron;rht to the conclusion that the coinniittee no long.-r desire tin- trade lietueen the two countries to U- carriwl on ni>on the principles of reci- jirocity. With the concurrence of the I'.ritisii .Minis- ter at Washington, they are therefore obliged res- pectfully to declini' to enter into the eiipagetiii ill suM'gcsted in the memoi-andum. That is all there is to that. It affords not the shadow of an argument in favour of discrimination, or in favour of assimilation of tariffs between the two coimtries. Now, Sir, I have exhausted my own patience, and I suppose the patience of the House, and yet there are two or three points which I feel I must touch upon, Ml!. < II ai;lt<»\s ASSKIMIONS. The hon. member for North ' Nor- folk (Mr. Charlton) stated, the other day, that the Government had asseited, when they went to the people In 1891, that they would certainly get a reciprocity treaty from tJie I'nited States, and that on tliat assertion, which he declared had no founda- tion in fact, we had fooled and deceivefl the people, and gaine<\ the election. I am anxious for honest and fair debate in tms House, and in my anxiety for it 1 pave m.v hon. friend a chance to retract the strength of that assertion, and I supposed he would like a man, say : Well, that was a little too strong ; you did not actually a.isert that, but you left it to be implie .'ind which ho can- not prove. When he was a.sked to produce his authority, what did he quote ? He quoted the Toronto "Empire." The Toronto "Em- pire is not the Government. He had not stated that tlie Toronto " Empire " had de- clared thus and so. He had said that the Gov- ernment had actually said so and so. But even when he read the extract from the Toronto " Empire," it appeared tlwt the Toronto " Empire " did not sjiy it ; and ho actually struggled through the whole extract without showing one single syllable or Une which cotdd bear out the asser- tion that he made. Tlie hon. gentleman went on, afterwards, to declare thai the draft treaty of 1874 was an actual and square discrimination on all fours with what was proposed tmder unrestricted reciprocity. Sir John Thompson gave him an opportunity to take that back. He asked a certain ques- tion as to whether the Hon. (roorge Brown had made a statement, by way of denial. But the hon. gentleman never answers a question squarely. He did not answer that ; but he went off on a side shift. Now, Sir, there are two examples of an hon. gcnfle- mnn choosing to argue against his opponents 38 by actually falsifying the record, and when he was given an opportunity of putting him- self riglit, utterly declining to put himself right. And he not only stated that iu tlie face of members in this House who could Judge of its falsity, but his speech goes out to the world, and it will be by and by, I suppose, printed in pamphlet form, as are all his speeches, and be sent out to a larger constituency, and men will read, and men will say the Canadian Government is a bad Gov- ernment. Why ? Because they declared in 1891, that they were certain to get a recipro- city treaty, they went to the people on this declaration and they did not get it ; because they declared against discrim- ination and tliat the British Government is against discrimination, and yet, in 1874, discriiuination was actually allowed and ac- ceded to by Greiit Britain. And men will say, we cannot support a Government which can bo guilty of sucli deceit as that. And when iisivcd, why do you come to that con- clusion, they will answer : Because Honest John Cliarlton said so, becausi^ ^Ir. Ciiarltou Is a Christian, because he is an elder of the Presbyterian Church, because he is a sticliler for tlie Sabbath, because ho is a man who pre- tends to gi*eat goodness, and Is truly good, and .rolui Charlton would not say tliia unless it were so. We will base our politiciii action on what .John Charlton say.s, because we be- lieve in his honesty, I must siiy tliat that is a propaganda which ought not to be carried on —not as between parties, for I am not spealiing now merely of parties— but as between the man and the people wlio read what the man says. My hon. friend is very much against the captain of a tug taking hold of a little string, and allowing the shrill whistle of his tug to rend the solemn stillness of th(> Sabbath morning. I would rather that he would rend the solemn stillness of tlie Sabbath morn, by letting the tug blow Its horn 10,000 times, than that he would offend against tlie compact upon which society can alone be main- taineil— truth Iwtween man and man ; and yet. Sir, if tliat captain of tJie tug told a lie to his mate, the minimum of wrong would be done. He would have sullied the purify of his own heart, ho would have outraged the confidence of his neighbour ; but these two would be the only ones concerned. But what is to be said of a public man who would moke these utterances without any shadow of foundation, and who, when given a chanoL> to take them back and set liim.sclf right, will not do it, but will .spread tlicm a.s propawuula broad and wide throughout the country. That is not tlie kind of political warfare that ought to obtain. mi;. iiAvir.s \\i) Tin: w \siii\<;t(>\ ignore that evidence and to take the other as the sole record and the sole evidence. Does it make any tntrinslo difference whether I made my statement in the privacy of my room and presented It in writing to the House, or whether I stated it In the Budget speecli. 30 as my report, made here as a rosi»onsibU; frit>ud put a questiou to mo a litllG Minister of the Crown, woiKliinj,' my words and maldng my statoineut, as I iH-licvcd it to bo true ? What fairness was then' iu taking Mr. Blaine's letter a.s tlu' oidy record, as if my statcMiu-nt wi-ri equally a mjitter of leeord V lion, geutleinan In liis spetM'h said tliat one Mr. Blidne in his letter included every singl* while ago, which 1 will answer, for he (Mr. Davies) said— I can read his words it' he doul)ts mo— that the SecreUiry of Stat4\ Mr. Hlaiue, emphatically denied Mr. Fostc!r'8 not statement. Will my lion, friend point out The one sentence of Mr. Blaine's which denies single statement made by me V rut the two records side by side. 1 say thhig that took jilace. How did he Imow ? more than Mr. Blaine did ; Mr. Blaine says He does not know. All tlie probal)ilitles are less than I lUd. I said everything that Mr. against Mr. Blaine having Avritten in tliat lilaine said— 1 do not mean Just iu exactly the letter a record of every thing that took place, same language, but I treated every one of As a matter of fact, ho did not write one- the points he treated— l)ut he did not tivat lifth part of what took plaep. He re- j all of the points that I did. Mr. Blaine corded no protocols ; there were none, l sUited that the hi-st proposal made was for Ho simply placed a letter iu the hands reciprocity iu natural products, with such of the President, giving in a few seu- 1 extensions and qualifications iis the altered tences his recollectiou of the conference ! circumst;iiice.s requircnl. I stated that ; we as bearing on the re(piest of Congress ; agree hi Uiat pohit. Mr. Blaine stilted that a and of what he should report. That was a re- list of manufactured articles was to be iuelud- cord, and mine is equally a record, and a 'd »!«"« with that of natural products. I fuller and longer ono than that. It is re- , stated that the hue must be m natural served for a CanacUau, and a person in Oi.po- products and numufactures generally. There sitiou, to declare the statement of a Canadian is a divergence, but that is all. Mr. co-member false, ami take without question j Blaiue stated that there i^ust be discrlmuia- the statemeut of Mr. Blaine ! | tioi^ against Great Britain ; I stated thero ; must bo discrimination against Great Bri- ;Mr. CHARl/rOX. Do wo understand tlie tain. In all these particulars we are ex- hon. gentleman to assert that the statemeut , actly alike or wo are very close together. made by Mr. Blaine is false ? , For, the rest, I make statements and deal ' with subjects which Mr. Blaiue does not Mr. FOSTIDR. ]\Iy hon. fiieud has risen In touch, but which were discussed m the cou- a very stately way and has intoned in a very forence that took place, and discussed for grave voice, but he is altogether aliead of the gomo considerable Ume. Now, I ask my hon. n-cord. If he will sit still, I will tell him. friend, whether ho has been quito fair to me Mr. CHAIILTOX. Say yes or no. i '" I't'Pi'oseutiug Mr. Blaine as having recorded all that took phice, as giving the only re- Mr. FOSTER. In the lirst place, 1 think rtn\l that should be rfeUed upon, and refus- tlio House will tjiko it for granted that' my ing to take my statement as a record of hon. friend i.s wrong in saying that Blaiiu''8 ^ the case, in refusing to look upon my state- letter detiiiled everything that took pla^'e. ment as worthy of credence, at least. Does he still hold to that assertion ? Again tMiually with that of Mr. Blaine. At let me ask my lion, friend if he did not say least he should give me the credit that that I probably might lie a little misled from he felt Secretary of tlie United and thinks over the matter, he will feel that States, which might incline him to give a he has been uufair to me in that respect, as report m the line of his own wishes V no man should be Uj his fellow member, sit- Honestly and fairly, was he not as liable ting opposite to him In the House of Coni- thereto as myself, and yet his statement mons, where all men are supposed to be Is taken as a strictly unbiassed report gentlemen. Now, Sir, 1 have not one word or . and mine a falsillcatiou of the record, i one syllable to retract of the statement I unworthy of credence. Now, my hon. j made last year on that point I stand by It ; 40 I stand by It entirely ; I stand by It without any mental reservation ; I stand by it In the presence of my colleagues who were there with mo. And 1 ask this House to Judge of the sense of fairnt-ss of that hou. gentleman who can find the only authorl- tativ«» statement on the part of the stranger and refuse all credence or credit for honesty to his fellow citizen and his fellow member. WHAT IIIK (ll'l"llSITIOX WANT. Now. Sir, T wish to say a word or two in closing, with reference to the general subject. I find that I have been kept close to the points which have been made to-night or re- cently, and that I have not touched the gen- eral points which I had hoped to deal with, which were made dui-ing the debate. I close with this siujple thought, and I ask the aiientiou of my fellow membci^ on this side of the House, and 1 :isk the attention of the country as well. These hon. gentlemen may uot be veiy well agreed as to what they want, but tliey are perfectly agreed as to what tliey are against. Wljen you come to siun up the expressions of the foremost men :is to what they want there is a wade divergence of opinion among them. They agree as to their positive faith tn very few principles, and In other respects there is a wide divergence. The hon. gentleman for South Oxford (Sir Richai-d 0*.rtwright) believes in unrestricted recipro- city ; lie wants access to tlie United States markets, and beUeves that it is the only salva^ tion for Canada In the line of development and permanent prosperity. The hon. member for North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton) is determined to devote his life to getting imrestricted re- ciprocity. T'he hon. member for yueen's, P.E.I. (Mr. Da vies) is less definite an.d precise. He has found out that it is the best sometimes uot to say too much or say it too lK)sitively, so this time lie hai'ks back con- siderably, and he sums up his poUcy in this wonderfully positive and definite form : " We desire the broadest treaty possible con- sistent with the commercial and political in- dependence of Canada." The hou. member for South Brant (Mr. Paterson) had a little good humoured chaCC with me because, he said, I was indefinite in my statement ; but he capped the climax of Indeflnlteness. He declared : " I want the freest possible trade with the United States, consistent with the digalty, honour and stability of both countries." He is much dissatisfied with me because I stated that I , would do the best for the whole country. He determined to be very definite, and tliis is his definition. I can see my hon. friend going from this House and meeting a farmer, one of those dopros.^od farmers of whom ho speaks, and the fanner says : Mr. Paterson, you are just down from the Legislative halls. I know you are a very leanied man, and a very fam- ous politician; I know your keenness of vision j and your breadth of comprehension. I want to ! know Avhuther you are going to get me the market of tlie United Stiites ? And the hon. gentleman will satisfy the binning tliirst of that poor, depressed farmer by say- ing : All I cfin tell you Is that I i want the freest possible trade with the ' United States consistent with \ho dignity, , honour and stiibUity of l)oth countries. Then , he will meet one of those prosperoas manu- f.acturers of his own town, who will come to him with anxiety in liis face, and say : Now, I Mr. Paterson, what is to be the end of this I matter ; are we going to have reciprocity, and j if we have it, as you say we must, are we to be mercilessly exposed to competition with the United States ? And the goo^l member will draw himself up to his full height and say : I cannot tell you whether it will be tliat way or not ; but I can tell you my faith and creed— I want the freest jiossible trade with the United States consistent with the dignity, honour and stability of both countries. And so he will satisfy every one of his constituents with that most definite and positive stiitement aud. If In his town they do not put up a monument sacred to the great N. P., I am sure they wQl put up a monument sacred to the positive clearness and definite conception of the great W. P. The member for Bothwell (Mr. Mills) is the most conservative of all. He says ho Is not for revolution, he would not hurt an existing industry. He wants a custom rev- enue and would like to see the man who could be elected in any constituency on a policy of direct taxation. He wants no independ- ence or annexation talk, and he thinks that man no friend of Canada who talks independ- ence or annexation at this time. Yet he has sitting very closely to him a gentleman who has been talMng independence in the last few months. Aud the hon. member for L'Islet (Mr. Tarte) has two planks In his policy. One Is that legislation should be had to increase' the profits of the farmers •11 Mr. TARTE. I never said or wrote any- thing of the kind. Mr. FOSTER. If my hon. friend Mr. DA VIES (P.E.I.) Take It back. Mr. FOSTER. No ; let me have a little conversation with my hon. friend. If my hon. friend will turn up the " Hiinsard " and look at the report of liis speech, and if he will look at the manifesto that he read and which he gave to his county, he wUl find tliese two statements in it, or else I cannot read French. Mr. TARTE. Perhaps that is it. Mr. FOSTER. Perliaps that Is the reason. I will leave It to him. In that manifesto he said that he is going In for such legislation as will raise the value of the farmer's pro- ducts, and that ISIr. Laurler, if he comes into power, will leave two or tliroe columns still standing in the temple of protection. Mr. TARTE. I never wrote or never said anytliing of the kind. Mr. FOSTER. Then it must be my bad French . I wUl look that up, and if I find I am wrong I will withdraw it with great pleasure. That is what my hon. friends say on the nega tive side. WHAT TMKV AUK OPPOSKD TO. Now, I want to draw the attention of the House to what these gentlemen say when they come to the positive side. Here tliere is no hesitation ; there Is no lack of deflnlteness. Their propaganda is plain and firm, and I want it to ring from one end to the other of this country. What ia their propaganda ? The hon. member for South Oxford says : Our policy from first lo last lias lii'in to destroy this villiiiiiods system of ) protection : 1 ciiio not whether we cut its lieiid olf, or cut its tail ott'. or cut it in two in tlie niiildlc wliat I want to do is to destroy it. There ia no Indeflniteness about that. The hon. member for North Norfolk (Mr. Charl- ton) says : Protection, Sir. notwithstanding all that may bo said in favour of it, is neither nioie or less tiian a species of slavery. It is a system as indefensible, uiwn th<> broad principle of justice, as slavt'ry. It is absolutely and tnicoiiditionally slavery. F 4 That is plain ; no round-about method In that My hon. friend from Prince IiMward Island (Mr. Davles) says : We ha\e been attacking this policy year after year. It is a cursed system, accur-icd of (;odanv-k- -V' ■ ■ri^r ..■■■■■ ?V'.' :>«^:' .^.•■ft-t V, ; t