Digitized by the Internet Archive in 2015 https://archive.org/details/irelandunderleagOOiris IRELAND UNDER THE LEAGUE.-i ILLUSTRATED BY EXTRACTS FROM THE EVIDENCE GIVEN BEFORE THE COWPER COMMISSION. It is a great issue ; it is a conflict for the very first and elementary principles upon which civil society is constituted. It is idle to talk of either law or order, or liberty or religion, or civilization, if these gentlemen are to carry through the reckless and chaotic schemes that they have devised. Rapine is the first object J but rapine is not the only object. It is perfectly true that these gentlemen wish to march through rapine to the disintegration and dis- memberment of the Empire, and, I am sorry to saj% even to the placing of different parts of the Empire iu direct hostility one with the other. That is the issue in which we are engaged. Our opponents are not the people of Ireland. We are endeavouring to relieve the people of Ireland from the weight of a tyrannical yoke.” — At Knowsley, October 27th, 1SS1. “They (lion, gentlemen) must explain, by some statement of fact, if they could give a different colour to the relations of the Land League to the crimes committed in Ireland, and they must explain the reason of the breaking down of the administration of justice. What did the breaking down mean ? It meant the destruction of the peace of life ; it meant the 'placing in abeyance of the most sacred duties ami the most cherished duties ; it meant the servitude of good men , the impunity and supremacy of bad men .” — House of Commons, January 11th, 18S2. RT. HON. W. E. GLADSTONE, M.P. PREPARED AND PUBLISHED BY THE I RISH LOYAL A ND PATRIOTIC UNION. DUBLIN : 109 GRAFTON STREET. LONDON : 26 PALACE CHAMBERS, WESTMINSTER. EDINBURGH : 29 ALBANY STREET. APKIL, 1887. [29:j .174 m du i I’NEILL LIBRARY BOSTON COLLEGE DUBLIN : Humphrey & Armour, Printers CROW STREET. NOTE FOR THE READER. No Introduction is considered necessary to the illustrations, which this little book supplies, of the condition of affairs in Ireland under the League. The eighty odd pages of which it is made up, consist simply and solely of extracts from the Blue Book of Evidence given before the Cowper Commission ; arranged for convenience sake in several sections and under different heads. The authenticity and correctness of these extracts cannot be gainsaid, for chapter and verse are supplied for every portion of the Evidence availed of. The work does not pretend to be in any sense complete. To those who have the time and inclination to study the Blue Book from cover to cover, much, — very much more information will be avail- able, both with regard to the matters here dealt with, and many others besides. To those however who have but the time to “ run and read,” this pamphlet will convey some idea of how Ireland is governed under the working of the Unwritten Law. It is for such readers that it is intended. X. THE LEAGUE -THE GOVERNMENT— AND THE PEOPLE. COMBINATION IN CORK AS BAD AS EVER. 1124. [Mr. E. B. WARBURTON, R.M., Bantry]. — Which time during these eight years has the state of the country as regards com- bination been at its worst? — I think combination now is very nearly as bad as ever it was. 1125. Do you know in your own mind who are the principal instigators ? — Yes. It is very well known everywhere who are the secretaries and treasurers and all that kind of thing in these branches. It is not kept secret in any way. SOME OF THE LEADING CORK LEAGUERS. 1126. [Mr. E. B. Warburton, R.M., Bantry]. — Only you cannot touch them in any way ? — No, Mr. Gilhooly, the Member for West Cork is chairman of the Bantry branch and Mr. Cotter is secretary, I am not sure who is treasurer. 1 127. You don’t mind putting that in evidence? — No, I believe Mr. Gilhooly makes no secret of it. 1128. Mr. Knifte . — You would not say that crime is as great now as it was two or three years ago — is not the country more peaceful as regards agrarian crime ? — As far as my own part of the country goes there is not much agrarian crime at all : there are some cases such as houghing cattle occasionally and some men beaten, but I don’t say it is by the com- bination it is done. 0 B [297 [ 2 ] A TRIBUTE TO THE CRIMES BILL OL 1882. 1232. [Mr. A. Newtown Brady, B.L., R.M, Connemara.] — Could you fix any time at which it (better condition of affairs) set in ?— I always understood the convictions had a good deal to do with it. 1233. Under the Crimes Act?— Yes, and under the ordinary law; convictions for murder ; it was in my district the Maamtrasna convic- tions took place. 1234. That was not under the ordinary law ? — They were convicted by special juries under the Crimes Act. • 0 ’ THE RESULT OF TACKLING THE MAYO INV 1 NCIBLES. 1303. [Mr. Francis Blackburn Henn, R.M., Mayo.] — And the result of that is satisfactory ? — Ever since the case that was called the North Mayo Conspiracy case, in my part of Mayo everything has been very quiet. 1304. You might tell us what that North Mayo Conspiracy case was? — The Government indicted a number of persons for being accessory to a conspiracy to murder, and a great number of the leaders of this par- ticular agitation were at that time convicted, and since that tiiqe the county has been very quiet. 1305. Is that the Crossmolina case, of which we have heard in Parlia- ment more than once ? — Yes. 1306. Sir James Caird. — They were convicted? — Yes. 1307. And what punishment was awarded ? — Some got 10 years and some 5 years penal servitude, others less ; they were tried before Mr. Justice Lawson in Cork. NO MURDER BUT MARKED IMPROVEMENT SINCE 1308. [Mr. Francis Blackburn Henn, R.M., Mayo.] — Lord Milltoivn. — Who was the unfortunate victim of the murder? — There was no murder ; they were indicted for conspiracy to murder — there were various charges — a great many attempts charged— one on Mr. James Scott, who is dead now. ■ 298 ] [ 3 ] 1309. Mr. Neligan. — These were the acts alleged to prove the con- spiracy ? — Yes. 1310. Sir James Caird. — But no actual murder was committed? — No. There was one man badly wounded named Hogan, of Crossmolina. 1311. Lord Milltown. — A man badly wounded, as alleged, by one of the men convicted? — Wounded in pursuance of the conspiracy. 1312. And since the punishment of these offenders there is a marked improvement in the district? — Yes; I think the district is very quiet. I don’t know that it actually dated from that — everything in my district is very satisfactory, indeed, now. 1 HE PERFECTION OF LEAGUE ORGANISATION MANES INTIMIDATION UNNECESSARY. 1367. [Mr. HEFFERNAN F. Considine, R.M., Kerry.]— Is there any statement about this question of intimidation which you wish to put before us? — No ; as a rule, at the present moment, intimidation is not very active, because the League and the whole system down there is so well organised that no one offends against it, and so there is no neces- sity for active intimidation. 1405. Tell me what that [disobedience of the Leagues instructions] entails? — Very often it entails outrage. It depends on the particular case. Suppose the League condemns an individual’s action, the action of an individual who sets himself apart from the rest of the tenants and pays, and that involves censure on the part of the League, that man un- less precaution is taken to guard him will be the victim of outrage on his person or property. BOYCOTTING DEPENDS FOR SUCCESS ON OUTRAGE. 1485. [Mr. HeffernanF. Considine, R.M., Kerry.] — The Pre- sident. — I will ask you one question about this boycotting of evicted land. I think you said it depends for its success on the possibility of outrage?— Yes. 1486. And if there was no outrage in the background those lands would be possibly taken ? — Yes, but it would take some time to establish that feeling of security now. [299 [ 4 ] 1503. You say the League now are desirous of putting down outrages ? — I think they would sooner see them stop. 1504. Are they desirous of putting down boycotting? — No, they advo- cate boycotting. 1505. You mean any overt act, such as murdering, and cutting, and wounding? — Yes, outrages such as personal outrage. 1506. Do they show any disposition to do away with boycotting? — No,, it is one of their strongest measures. 1507. Or any desire to relax the enforcement of any portion of the unwritten law ? — No, if they did that their power would be gone. 0 THE PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT. 2692. [Mr. C. U. TOWNSHEND, Dublin.] — And you think they are tired of this intimidation ? — I am satisfied that in many districts they are. My opinion is fully in that direction. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE ACTION OF THE GOVERNMENT. 3608. [Mr. Toler R. Garvey, Queen’s County.] — Do you think the improvement may be permanent ? — I hope it may. I think that all depends on the action of the Government. In many cases where the tenants believe that any kind of combination and demand will be suc- cessful, I think they are quite ready to make the demand, and so much depends on whether there is an active branch of the National League in the district. 3609. Are there at this moment active branches in Tipperary? — Yes • close to that farm, and the whole thing is being done under the advice and guidance of the branch of the League. THE PEOPLE ARE UTTERLY SICK. 3611. [Mr. Toler R. Garvey.] — T he people are getting- tired ? — I think they are utterly sick of it, and I think it is the very great desire in the majority of tenants to see it abolished. 300 ] L 5 ] PAYING TO THE LEAGUE BY WAY OF INSURANCE. 7177. [Mr. R. W. Lowry, Omagh.] — Is the power of the Land League increasing ? — Yes ; I believe it is very much. 7178. Do they interfere actively between landlord and tenant ? — There may be sometimes an understanding about withholding rents. 7179. Is that in consequence of the influence of the Land League organisation ? — I believe it is owing to the influence of the Land League organisation. Sometimes a Protestant or Presbyterian pays something to the Land League. I know a very respectable man who pays the Land League a shilling a year. 7181. And you think it is necessary sometimes to pay something to the Land League by way of insurance ? — Yes ; it is getting on in this country, I am sorry to say. 7233. A combination to wait upon you and get a reduction — and is there any other combination ? — The secretary of the National League wanted me to have an agreement with him about it, but I said no ; I said the agreement is for fifteen years. •O' THE PRIEST OF GWEEDORE , THE HEAD AND MOVING SPIRIT OF THE LEAGUE. 8469. [Hon. Somerset Ward, Gweedore Estate.] — Mr. Neligan. — They gave them that advice? — Yes. Several of the tenants at Gweedore — I cannot mention the names — told me that the present state of affairs is absolutely ruining them, and they said they wished that things were again as they used to be in the old times. 8470. The President. — In these adjoining parishes which you have mentioned, the priests did not encourage this sort of thing ? — No. 8471. And where the priest does not encourage it? — There it is all well. The Gweedore priest is the head and moving spirit of the National League, and he keeps it in life. I am perfectly certain we would have no difficulty there if it were not for his presence. He had just made a most violent speech down there, which you can see in the Morning News of yesterday. It was at a meeting at Gweedore. 8472. Has he been there since 1880 or 1881 ? — He has been seventeen or eighteen years there. [301 [ 6 ] 8473 - I n this part of which you are giving an account? — Yes ; but he has only become paramount since 1880, when the League started. He set the Land League at work from the first. I heard him say to the tenants in my presence, that the Land League had brought the English ministers down to their knees, and that it would bring the landlords down into the dust. I ought to say also that Mr. MTadden has always said, “ I am against outrages ; what we want is passive resistance.” He said to me once, “ You consider me the enemy of the landlords, but I consider myself their greatest friend. I appeal to these people around if it is not a fact that if it was not for me both landlords and agents would have been shot.” 0 A LAD BEHIND A COUNTER, SECRETARY TO THE LEAGUE. 2315 1, [Mr. R. B.Daly, Louth.] — Sir James Caird . — In what ■way did they boycott the grass land? — In every parish they had a branch of the Land League. I have seen some of their letters. The secretaries are very often insignificant people. For instance in my own locality. 23152. Do not name anybody ? — In my own neighbourhood the secretary was a lad behind a counter, and a letter of his was shown to me, directing a poor blacksmith to give up a plot of land taken for his cow, and which he gave up lest he should be injured in his trade. 23 1 53. The Presidc?it. — What was their object ; to make the prices go down, or to secure its being let to certain people in preference to others, or to insist upon it lying vacant altogether? — It is to secure it being let out in farms to tenants who would afterwards have the advantage of going into Court. 23154. Lord Milltown. — It was not anybody’s land in particular that was boycotted ? — The rule that they made is that where a farmer is hard up and wanted to make something off his land they would let him alone, The set is made upon the owner in fee. o EVERYTHING PROCEEDS FROM THE LEAGUE. 12202. [Mr. Joseph Hardy, Loughrea.] — That was a Ribbon business, I suppose ? — Everything proceeds from the Land League or National League. They have absorbed everything into them, and while the Government allows it to exist, and does not put down its foot and stop it, you will never have things ; s they ought to be. 202 ] L 7 ] THE ENNIS BOARD OF GUARDIANS SIMPLY A LAND LEAGUE CLUB. 14934. [Mr. Richard Stackpoole, Clare.] — Do they live in Ennis ? — Some of them do. I have ten or twelve cottages on my own place, and they wanted to put more on it. The Board of Guardians now are simply a Land League Club. They give no situations to any- body who is not a Land Leaguer ; and it is necessary for a labourer before he gets a house to subscribe to the League. I will tell you of a case of which I am aware in the Tulla district. A farmer was unpopular, and they planted a woman as a labourer on this man’s farm, and she had an illegitimate child, twelve years old 14935. The President. — In fact, it is entirely at their discretion to plant anyone they choose anywhere they like ? — Anywhere they like ; and no person is eligible that does not belong to the Land League. 0 THE LEAGUE HAS NOW COMPLETE DOMINATION OVER THE PEOPLE. 15 139. [Mr. J. B. HEWSON^, Limerick.] — Is the Land League as powerful as it was ? — Quite as powerful, if not more so. I think it is more powerful than ever. There is not the same open inter- ference. The reason is that the country has been broken in so thoroughly to obey the behests of the Land League that they have not used the same means that they did at first. 1 5 140. Then no tenant has paid in violation of the orders of the League? — Not for the last two or three years. In the beginning of the agitation the tenants came secretly and paid, but now no tenant pays un- less the whole thing is settled. They have not faced the League. I con- sider that the League now has complete domination over the people. FEAR OF INTIMIDATION RAMPANT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. 16460 [General Sir Redvers Buller, Kerry.] — The President. — They (the tenants) are still in fear of the League? — They are coerced, and in fear of the intimidation that is rampant in this country. [303 [ 8 ] 164 77* And your experience of the district is really that the people if left to themselves are very well intentioned? — The majority of them are. 16478. And that they are prevented from paying their rents partly by terrorism, and partly by real inability and poverty : — Yes, and partly by bad advice ; this “ United Ireland ” scheme and that sort of thing. The three worst districts that I have got and which I really thought were settling down Mr. Dillon and other M.P.s have just been preaching in and the excitement they have created will, I fear, again disturb them. 16479. Mr. Neligcui . — Then in your opinion these speeches that we are constantly seeing and reading, are producing a bad effect ? — They have paralysed if not stopped purchase certainly, and they have demoralised the districts that I thought were settling down. 16489. Lord Milltown. — I understand you to say there is a complete system of intimidation prevailing in this country ? — There is. 16492. But what has caused the intimidation to diminish, that is the fact that leads you to the conclusion that it has diminished, but I want to know why do you think it has diminished ? — I put it the other way, The intimidation is a good deal worked by the bad fellows in a district. A good many men have not joined in it, they having paid. If a large num- ber in a district have paid they set their faces against the bad fellows, I think Undoubtedly, with a falling off in intimidation, I always find that the different police in the district tell me that they are on better terms with the people, and my theory is that in these cases the better intentioned have got the upper hand. Of course there are a good many di -tricts here where a man could not be seen speaking to a policeman on thu road, they dare not do so. 16503. In fact, owing to the organisation of the League, the enforce- ment of legal obligations in this district has become an impossibility?— Quite so ; you cannot collect a shop debt hardly. There was a man murdered the other day, on account of a shop debt, on the other side of Tralee. The crops of a farmer were seized by a shopkeeper, who em- ployed a labourer to cut some oats, and he was shot the same night. 0 THE LEAGUE IS MA S TER OF THE POSITION ALTOGETHER. 19492. [Mr. John E. Barrett, Cork.] — Then in fact the Land League is now very much the same as ever in your part of the country ? — It is master of the position altogether, only such rent is paid as they sanction, only such rents as the tenants themselves think they should pay, and such rents as the Land League allow them to pay. 304 ] [ 9 ] J 9493* I s there much boycotting going on in your part of the country? — - In my immediate neighbourhood there are nine boycotted farmers. 19494. And is the boycotting successful, completely successful until the Defence Union came into operation, and this Union enables them to hold out ? — They have held out. I am a very active member of the Defence Union, and through me these men received any assistance that they might require. 19496. You send the produce to market ? — Yes, we have a large farm near this city ; a sort of depot for these cattle, where the cattle are kept until a market is secured for them in England or elsewhere. 19497. And this you say is done at a good deal of danger ? — It is simply because it is done in defiance of the orders of the Land League, who direct that no one should buy those cattle, and any person acting in that way in defiance of the Land League would, I consider, be in danger. 19498. Are you under police protection ? No. I was under police protection ; but I defend myself now. 19499. But you go about with a certain amount of risk ? —Certainly. 19500. Do you find it necessary to carry arms ? — I never go without a servant armed with me, and myself well armed also. OUTSIDE THE PALE OF CIVILIZATION. 19506. [Mr. John E. Barrett]. — At this moment is it necessary in your part of the country to have such. an institution as that ? — Oh, it is. It is as necessary an institution as possibly could be supposed to exist for these men, and it is not alone necessary, but it is indispensible. 19507. If the protection of the Defence Union were withdrawn from these men, practically they would be worse than ever ? — Yes. 19508. Practically they would be outside the pale of civilisation ? — Yes, outside the pale of civilisation. 19509. No law to protect them ? — No law. 195 10. The Government have done nothing for them? — The Govern- ment have done nothing whatever. I do not think the Government have given any assistance whatever to these men, or to the cause for which they are suffering. You will have one of them before you by and bye, and he will tell you a deplorable tale. We only brought up one of the men. 1951 1. Mr. Neligan . — Only you buy from them, their position would be one of utter isolation ? — Quite so. [305 [ 10 ] PREVENTED FROM ATTENDING A PLACE OF WORSHIP. 195 13. [Mr. John E. Barrett.] — The President. — How do they manage to attend their places of worship ? — Most of them do not go at all. If they did they would be hooted at, and booed, and insulted. 19514. — And the result is they do not goat all? — Quite so. I know that as a matter of fact, as I go to the same chapel as some of the men go to. 195 1 5. You are yourself a Roman Catholic? — I am. I go to the same chapel as these men attended, and they tell me they will not go now to be insulted and hooted, and they actually did not go. Some of them go, but the majority do not. The mothers and the children of the family are equally isolated. 19516. — Can the children attend the national schools ? — They will not go, because, in one instance I know from personal knowledge, one of these men sent his children to school, and the schoolmaster was noticed not to continue teaching these children, and he persevered in teaching them, and the result was that all the other children left the school. NO INSTRUCTION FOR BOYCOTTED CHILDREN 195 17. [Mr. John E. Barrett.] — What happened to these children ; how did they get their education ? — The children of the man who was boycotted were kept at home, and then the other children returned again. 19518. The children had to go away from the school? — Yes. 195 19. Well, you seem to have done an immense amount of good? — It is the Defence Union that has done good ; it is the most valuable in- stitution of the day. My district was the first that really took energetic action in the matter, and since then it has spread around through the different parts of the county of Cork. 19520. It is confined to the county of Cork? — Yes, at present, but it is intended to extend its branches into Kerry. 19521. Where it is as much required as in the county of Cork? — I should say as much. 300 ] ■o [ 11 ] THE LABOURERS REBEL AGAINST THE LEAGUE. 19629. [Mr. Richard Creed, Cork.] — Sir James Caird . — * Are you still boycotted ? — Up to quite a recent period I was. What saved me was that the labourers called on the principal leaders of the Land League, and said that they would not have me boycotted any longer ; that I was the only one that gave employment. 19630. Did the boycotting make the labourers cease to go to you to work ? — They were rather afraid to come to me ; but as I told you, they afterwards waited on the heads of the Land League, and said they would not have me boycotted. 19631. Lord Milltown. — Then the influence of the labourers has a deterrent effect on the sentences of ostracism passed by the Land League? — Most certainly. 19632. And were it not for that, I may take it, the tyranny of the League would be still greater? — I suppose only for that Mr. Murphy would not have paid at all, and I would have had to leave the country. THE LABOURERS TO BE THANKED MUCH MORE THAN GOVERNMENT. 19633- [Mr. R. Creed.] — And you have to thank the labouring class more than the Government ? — Much more than the Government. 19634. Government, I presume, has done nothing for you ? — It has done nothing for me. 19635. Sir James Caird . — How long were you boycotted? — Well, it began about the 1st March last, and went on all through the summer. THE COMPOSITION OF THE LEAGUE. 19636. [Mr. R. Creed.] — Lord Milltown. — What classes now compose £he Land League in your neighbourhood? — Principally large farmers. 19637. Do they make use of their power to promote their own personal objects, as a rule? — Certainly ; altogether their own objects. [307 [ 12 ] 19638. Do tradesmen belong to it? — Well, I don’t know ; I think they ■do. I think, as a matter of fact, almost everyone around there is a subscriber. 19639. Are there instances of men subscribing as one would subscribe to a fire insurance, to save them from misfortune ? — Precisely ; that is what I want to convey. 19640. It is, in fact, a necessity? — Everyone would be better off by -subscribing. GOVERNMENT ABDICATION IN FAVOUR OF THE LEAGUE. 19641. [Mr. R. Creed.] — Government having apparently ab- dicated their functions, you have no resource but to apply for protection to the Land League itself ; is that so ? — I would say that is the view a great many take of it. Only for the labourers I would be very badly off indeed, and the Land League would have pressed the matter very much more on me. My farm is a grazing farm altogether, and at a meeting of the League it was “ further resolved that since the case presents features of impor- “ tance, copies of the foregoing resolutions be sent to the neighbouring “ branches, and to the Cattle Dealers Association.” You are aware at that time there was the well-known boycotting of the Cork Steamship Companyand the Cattle Dealers Association was principally engaged in it. 19642. Sir James Caird. — Did you say that Murphy boycotted you ? — He did as far as he could. His friends refused to hire me their steam threshers. There was one man that I hired a corn drill from to sow a wheat field I had, and he came to me and told me that he was going to take it away. I said to him, “You had better take care what you are “doing,” “Oh,” said he, “the whole public opinion is against you about “ this business of Mr. Murphy’s. 5 ’ I said, “ I cannot pay Mr. Alurphy’s “ debts for him ; I must only do without your corn drill.” 19643. Have you any further observations to offer? — That is about all I have to say. 0 - GUTRAGE FOLLOWS DISOBEDIENCE OF THE LEAGUE'S COMMANDS. 20843. [Mr. Francis J. Joyce, Galway.] — The President . — Has there been any actual outrage in that district lately? — No actual out- rage, but there have been hard cases of boycotting against tenants. - 308 ] [ 13 ] 20844* Do you think that if the tenants did act contrary to what they were told by the League there would be actual outrage ? — I have no doubt of it, because they have told me so themselves. As showing the power of the League, I may mention that on that portion of the estate called Woodford I have had the tenants served with writs and have sold the interest in their holdings, judgment having gone by default on the writs. The tenants have bought in their interests, paying the rents due and the costs of the action, which in some cases amounted to ^22 10s. besides the rent. I remonstrated with one of the tenants who had acted in this way. I said to him, “You say your rent is too high, and yet you can “ afford to pay not only the rent but costs of an action and the expenses “ of the sheriff.” The answer given to me was it was better to pay costs than have his house burned over his head. I have made out the amount of costs and rent paid by some of the tenants under these circumstances, which I now produce. A TOTAL ABSENCE OF CIVILISED GOVERNMENT. 20892. [Mr. Francis J. Joyce]. — In fact the state of the country which you describe seems to indicate a total absence of any civilised government ? — A total absence. 20893. And the law is really now obsolete there ? — Obsolete. There is no doubt at all about it. A man in Portumna the other day came to me and said, “ I declare to God no respectable man can live in this country if this sort of thing goes on.” 20894. Would the people be glad to see the Government do their duty and put down this business ? — No doubt of it. And certainly more than half the tenantry in my part of the country would be only too glad to be allowed to come in and pay their rents. 20895. Do they ever express any surprise at the inaction of the Govern- ment ? — Constantly. 20896. The President. — Do you suppose that if facilities for eviction were given, it would do an immense amount of good ? — I think so. NOT WORTH A MANS LIFE TO BE OUTSIDE THE LEAGUE RANKS. 20906. [Mr. Francis J. Joyce.] — Lord Milltown . — Do you think there is any chance of the Land League dying itself, without steps [ 30 £ [ 14 ] being taken by the Executive Government to protect the people from its intimidation ? — I am afraid not. Seeing how things are, I think it is more formidable this moment than ever it was. Every single man is associated in it. It is worth a man’s life not to be enrolled in this business. He is looked upon as a black sheep. 20907. The Preside?it . — I suppose it is the worst part of the country- now ? — It is very bad indeed. Exceptional in itself ?— -No doubt. 20908. Lord Milltown . — Has there been no time during last summer when its power appeared a little more on the wane? — I thought about two months ago it was losing power a good deal, but its power revived all •of a sudden. 20909. Do you know anything to account for its sudden revival ? — I could not make out. I thought for a time — I had an idea — I knew the country myself was sick of the whole thing, and I thought myself that it was losing power a bit, but now I am fully satisfied that it never was stronger than it is this moment. THE MOVING SPIRITS OF THE LEAGUE. 20910. [Mr. Francis J. Joyce]. — W hat class of persons now form the chief organisers? — All the shopkeepers. IknowinLoughreathereare three or four respectable men who never mixed themselves up with this thing till lately, and they made them come in. One most respectable man, who does a lot of business, and is a very worthy tradesman in the town, kept clear of them till three months ago. They made him come in. 2091 1. But who are the moving spirits — what class of tenants or per- sons ?— Oh, the moving spirits are the shopkeepers in the small towns all round. They seem to me to take the most prominentpart in it. They have all the country coming in to them. Then they have their meetings every Sunday, and they have their committee meetings during the week. They seem to have all the respectable men with them. Any man who does not wish to go with them is bound to go. He cannot keep out of it. 20912. Are the most solvent of the tenants the most prominent in these matters ? — In a good many cases they are, and in other cases all those fellows who have either lost their money, or have nothing to lose, they keep the solvent men going. 20913 But we have had evidence to the effect that that is the case generally ? — No doubt of it. Is that your experience ? — Yes. No doubt of it. 310 ] THE BOYCOTTED SCHOOL TEACHER. 20914. Mr. Francis J. Joyce.] — And on the whole you are of opinion that the people would look to a deliverance from this iron tyranny with the greatest possible thankfulness and relief? — No doubt of it. They think the present state of things themselves something frightful. The National School teacher in Portumna came to me. He is boycotted now, because during the Woodford row he supplied the police with something. They have taken a number of children from his school ; he cannot buy a loaf of bread in the town ; he cannot get his horses shod ; they won’t speak to him. He is in a most frightful state. 20915. And for all you see there might as well be no nominal govern- ment of the Queen in the country at all ? — I never saw anything like it. 20916. Mr. Neligan. — Is there government? — I never saw anything like it. OUTRAGES IN KERRY AND WHY THEY HAVE STOPPED SOMEWHAT. 21439. [District Inspector William Davis, Kerry.] — You are the district inspector of Castleisland? — Yes. 21440. What is the state of your district as regards crime ? — There is a great deal of intimidation. 2144T. Does this take the form of actual outrage ? — It has, my lord, and has continued for the last six years. 21442. And is it as bad now as it was six or four years ago? — Well, intimidation is quite as bad, if not worse. 21443. And have there been as many outrages ? — Not so many outrages. In fact for the last year there have not been so many outrages. 21444. Is it that it has got so complete that outrages are not necessary, or from any other cause ? — My lord, there were English gentlemen came round and denounced outrages in Kerry, and said they were a disgrace to Ireland. Mr. Davitt came round and denounced outrages, and appealed to certain persons against them. That had a very great effect, indeed, in preventing them. 21445. And the intimidation now does not take so much the form of out- rage as it did ? — No, it does not take so much the form of outrage as it did but still the people are so organised that really if a man is disposed to act perhaps properly he would be afraid. [311 [ 16 ] BOYCOTTING : ITS APPLICATION AND ITS IMMUNITY FROM ATTACK. 21446. [District Inspector William Dayis, Kerry.] — Is there much boycotting ? — To a certain extent there is, my lord ; but it is practised in such a way that the law cannot get hold of it. In fact there are only what might be called two people who are really suffering very- much from boycotting in the district of Castleisland. They are subject to some annoyance, but not so much as they were. One of them is a very recent case. 21505. The President . — Who is this boycotting directed against? — Chiefly against people who have taken evicted farms, and, in fact, it is only people who have taken evicted farms who have suffered from it. 21506. And it is not used to qualify private spite? — Seldom or never. There have been instances, but very few indeed. But I should say a great number of outrages in the Castleisland district were committed to gratify private spite. 21507. Lord Milltown . — Were there ? — Yes, a great many of them. 21508. And should you, from your knowledge of the people, be of opinion that the great mass of the people would look with pleasure on the destruction of the tyranny with which they are oppressed ? — I am certain they would. The farmers of any position in the district would look on it with delight. THE NATIONAL LEAGUE IS VERY BUSY. 2593a [Mr. D. G. CROSS, Tipperary.] — Was there a marked improvement then ? — Yes, if the agitation kept quiet. The tenants were more inclined to pay then than now. But they are not inclined to pay now, and those who are inclined to pay are afraid. 25931. What do you attribute that to? — The National League is very busy. 25932. Is it a considerable influence ? — It is. 25933. D° the people willingly belong to it ? — A great many of them do not. 25934. Do you think it would be a popular thing in the country if they could be delivered from the rule of the National League? — I think it would be one of the greatest blessings that the country has seen for a long time. 312 ] L 1- ] THE LA W OF THE LAND GIVING WA Y TO THE LA W OF THE LEAGUE. 26073. [Captain COSBY, Queen’s Co.] — Is the Land League pretty strong in your neighbourhood ? — Very. 26074. Is there a considerable amount of boycotting going on there ? — An immense amount of boycotting ; and when some one remarked to me that there was but little boycotting going on now, I said, “ Yes, but the “ reason of that is that they put the screw on so tremendously that the “people were obliged to join the League.” 26075. So that boycotting does not exist now to such an extent as it did formerly in your district, as all the people, you say, are bound to join the League ? — It is carried on more or less ; as the people are not supported by the law of the land, they yield to the unwritten law. 26076. The law of the land, you say, is placed in abeyance in favour of the law of the League ? — Quite so. IF GOVERNMENT WON'T ASSIST, THE PEOPLE MUST GO WITH I HE LEAGUE. 26077. [Captain COSBY.] — Have you heard the people express surprise that the Government of the country did not support the law ? — * Many a time, and they say that if the Government won’t assist them they must go with the League. 26078. Do you think the people would look with feelings of relief to the removal of the League ? — Tremendously. 26079. And if they had the law of the land re-established again ? — Yes ; they are heartily tired of the power of the League, and they would be only too glad if the Government were to step in to-morrow. I have that from themselves. c [313 [ 18 ] II. BOYCOTTING A LA MODE, THE STORY OF THE CURTINS. 1432. [Mr. Hefferxax F. CONSIDINE, R.M., Kerry.] — Do you know anything about the outrage on the Curtins ? — I do. 1433. In that case Mr. Curtin was a popular man in the neighbour- hood? — Yes. 1434. He was even a member of the Land League ? — Yes. 1435. There was no antecedent animosity to him ? — None, that I am aware of. 1436. But the result of the outrage is to create ill-feeling — the greatest possible ill-feeling — against that most unfortunate family ? — Yes ; and they cannot move about now without being insulted. 1437. They are unable to attend to the duties of their religion in con- sequence ?— No, not now. 1438. They had to do so with privacy ? — They had to go into the sacristy attached to the church, because their pew was not allowed to be in the church. 1439. Mr. Neligan. — Their pew in the church was broken? — Yes; immediately after the conviction in Cork, the Curtins returned, and they attended mass, and were treated with the greatest possible disrespect, and threatened with violence ; so much so, that on the following Sunday it was found necessary to send 50 police, for the purpose of protecting them ; they were again assailed, not only with abuse of the grossest character, but also with stones, and missiles of various kinds ; and the police had to charge the people, and disperse them, for the protection of the Curtins. Thereupon the bishop shut up Fieries church, and would not allow service there, as a punishment for the people ; and on the resumption of the ser- vice, I think there was rather a cessation of these manifestations, and the Curtins attended as usual. However, their pew had been broken, and a [ 19 ] new pew was brought, but the man who brought it was attacked, and the pew was broken to pieces ; since then no attempt was made to place a pew in the church. 1440. To what do you attribute the ill-feeling raised against this un- fortunate family ? — Because, in the first place, Curtin defended his house, and shot this man Sullivan, and because his family had the courage to come forward and give evidence against those concerned. 1441. I suppose the latter part was the stronger part — that they dared to give evidence as Crown witnesses ? — I don’t know which is the greater — shooting a man is a great offence. 1442. Even where the other man would have shot him if he could ? — Yes. 1443. That used to be considered quite fair ? — We have lost that chivalry. 1444. Sir James Caird. — Did Curtin shoot the man before he was him- self shot ? — Yes. 1445. Is that the ground on which the animosity of the people rests ? — Yes, that is one thing, and his family gave evidence against the parties who attacked his house — there can be no question about the cause, for the Curtins were most popular before that. 0 THE BOYCOTTING OF GWEEDORE FISHERY. 8439. [Hon. Somerset Ward, Donegal.] — Or boycotting ? — There has been a boycotting of the fishery. Those who had the salmon fisheries were the lessees of the landlord. I think in the year 1880, there appeared to be some distress about Gwee- dore, and the lessees of the fishery went to Father M‘Fadden, and said, “We will contribute towards the relief, whatever our earnings may be this year.” These earnings were about £ 60 , and they gave them to him for the relief of the people. Next year all their men were desired to leave their employment, and they remonstrated, and one of them went to Father M £ Fadden, and said, “ This is a very hard way that we are treated. We contributed last year towards a distress fund, and now we are boy- cotted.” He replied it could not be helped. They said, “ What offence are we committing ? We pay Captain Hall ; we must pay our rent whether we work the fishery at all or not. We have a lease of the fishery.” He said it could not be helped. Well, the carters were prevented from bringing the fish to Derry, and the lessees met with a great loss, until [315 [ 20 ] they made an arrangement with the Sligo and Liverpool steamer to call for the fish, and then, of course, they were independent of the carters. 8440. The result of that was that the carters lost their employment ? — They lost that, and when Mr. M‘Fadden presented the memorial to me for a reduction of rent in December last, I said to him, “ Do you ask for the reduction of rent in consequence of the great poverty of the people T T and he said “Yes, they cannot afford to pay anything.” I said “ How is it that the National League, of which you are President, has prevented them from working at 2s. a day for the hotel, and 2s. 6d. at the fisheries ? If they are so poor, is it not a strange thing to prevent them from earning wages?” He said nothing in reply to that. I know instances of people being boycotted, and not able to obtain the necessaries of life, in conse- quence of their working for the lessees of the fishery andtheGweedore Hotel. 8441. Mr. Neligan. — When were the labourers prevented from working? — Last year it was boycotted, but this year that is removed. I do not know whether the National League met and passed resolutions, but they are not boycotted now. 8442. The President. — This district is in the hands of Father MTadden entirely ? — Yes. 8443. They are all Roman Catholics ? — Yes ; I never saw in my life any man have such power over his fellow-men as he has over them. If I ask them to do a thing, they say at once, as simply as children “ I must go and ask Father MTadden, and see what he says and they will do nothing without that, at least none of them with the exception of a few who live immediately around the hotel, and who are dependent to a great extent upon the hotel. He has not the same control over them. They act independently of him ; but all the rest are absolutely in his power. 8444. I suppose you see no remedy for this, or no means of getting them out of his power ? — I do not. It is a very terrible thing to think of — if one has to bring wholesale eviction, and when the six months has expired to pull down the houses. It is a terrible thing to contemplate, but I am really at my wit’s end to know what else to do. THE EXPERIENCES OF FATHER O'LEARY. 16208. [Rev. John O’Leary, P.P., Cork] — Do you think they would look forward with greater hope to prosperity if there was less disorder and outrage in the country ? — What you call disorder, dis- turbance, and outrage, ail that has been and is confined exclusively to a 316 ] [ 21 ] number of young men, young farmers’ sons and labourers, young labourers. When an outrage occurred in my parish very recently there was scarcely one connected with it who was connected with land, and not one of those supposed to be there was connected at all with land. 16209. The outrage was inflicted, I presume, in consequence of some agrarian dispute ? — Well, there was a young fellow boycotted. He was boycotted ; the case was brought before the League, and I was told that the League had not issued a sentence of boycotting against him for being in the employment of some landlord who evicted a tenant. This fellow that was boycotted bought a pig, I think, in the town of Tralee on a Saturday, and one of his neighbours brought home this pig for him in his cart. That was on the Saturday, and the next evening there was a party of young fellows came to the house of the man who owned the horse and car, and that brought home this pig. There was some noise outside the door, and I believe a shot was fired. At all events there was a shot fired, and then there was some other kind of noise. He opened the door, and three shots were then fired at the door, and one of the shots took effect in his thigh, and the man has been laid up ever since in the hospital at Castleisland. I was at the house and saw it. He is nearly well now. But the only crime that he was guilty of was that this man brought home a little pig for the man that was supposed to be boycotted ; and that man was not boycotted at all by the National League, as I know. 16210. But at any rate you know that this happened ? — Yes. 16211. Mr . Neligan . — What is the feeling of the people at the com- mittal of a horrible cowardly outrage like that ?— It is condemned univer- sally. 16212. Do you think they would hand the perpetrator of such an outrage over to the authorities ? — That is quite another thhig. They condemn these things and they disapprove of them, but they are afraid to give any sort of evidence, or any sort of indication whatsoever, that might lead to the detection of crime, because they are afraid that the criminals so de- tected would retaliate upon themselves. 16213. I 11 fact they are living under a reign of terror ? — I will give you an extraordinary example of how the thing permeates from one member of a family down to the very lowest. One of the national schools under my management was injured by stone throwing, and I believe it was broken open and some little things stolen. A few days after this occurred I went to the spot and I made inquiries of the teachers, and I asked if we could possibly find out the criminals. One of the teachers told me he heard it was so and so, naming two or three boys in the neighbourhood, and I asked “From whom did you get this information,” and she said “ I got it from such and such a boy.” I went into the school and called out this boy. Of course I had no right to call the boy out in that fashion [317 [ 22 ] before the entire school, whatever I did I should have done in private. However, I said to him, “ Do you know anything about” — “in reference to this school being broken into?” He burst into tears, and he said he would not tell me anything about the thing at all. He said he never would see his home in safety if he gave me any information. 16214. Was the boy afraid of being the victim of some attack ? — The danger was lest if he gave me information on that subject the rest of the boys would beat him. 16215. That looks as if there was sympathy with all the rest of the boys in the breaking open of that school ? — It is not sympathy, it is a state of terror, of dread of having any physical injury done to themselves ; whether in the case of a farmer his hay yard would be burnt down, or his house burnt down while he and his family are asleep. Those are the causes which operate against the detection of crime. 16216. You think it is more terrorism than sympathy ? — I do not believe there is a particle of sympathy amongst the older members of the family. I do not think there is a particle of sympathy existing, and I know further- more from being pretty well acquainted with the young men of the parish, I know there is a vast number of young men in my parish who have no sympathy, and never had with crime. A CLERGYMAN BOYCOTTED FOR SIGNING A PETITION AGAINST HOME RULE. 16420. [Mr. Geo. F. Trench, Kerry.] — Sir James Caird . — • And do they all submit ?— They all submit almost. There has been no case of resistance on the Ardfert side but one, where a farmer was visited during church hours on Sunday by eight or ten men disguised. A little girl saw them, and she told her mother that some men were coming to- wards the house by the field. The mother at once ran in and shut the door ; the minute she had drawn the bolt she heard these men demanding admission outside ; she stubbornly refused to give them arms, she went to one of the upper windows and called police, and called to a boy to run for the master, and after about ten minutes, in which they tried to force the door, and broke the timber of the door with their weapons, they went away. 16421. I think the rector of your parish was moonlighted some time ago ? — The rector’s house was attacked, and a charge of shot put through 318 ] [ 23 ] the door exactly where he had been standing immediately before, which was evidently an attempt to murder him. 16422. Was he the priest ? — No, the Protestant rector. 16423. Lord Milltown . — Had he done anything in particular to excite hostility? — He had signed a petition against Home Rule, and was sup- posed to have carried it about his parish, which he had not. CANON GRIFFIN'S REMINISCENCES. i6ygy. [Rev. Canon Griffin, P P., Millstreet.] — Is it [boy- cotting] aimed at persons who transgress the edicts of the League, or on what account is it effected ? — It commenced, I think, through trade jealousy in the town against one shopkeeper who was a very large trader there, and a very large farmer, but not a land grabber in any way. 16798. Not a land grabber ? — No. 16799. Then it was not an agrarian matter ? — It had nothing to do with his land transactions, but had simply to do with his business, and some of his enemies took it into their heads to boycott him, and they posted a number of men opposite his house and shop, who took down the names of everyone that entered, and threatened those people that had entered or purchased there that they would meet sum- mary vengeance, and notices were posted on their doors, coffins and all that kind of thing, and this went on increasing until the man’s trade was nearly ruined as far as his shop business was concerned. Two of the men were prosecuted before the assizes in Cork, and convicted of boy- cotting, and sent to gaol for one year each. One of the witnesses in the case was the schoolmaster in the town, in the school under my manage- ment, and the school was immediately boycotted simply because he told the truth. 16800. Then on account of his school being boycotted did nobody go to the school ? — Well, the attendance dwindled down so much that I do not think out of 80 scholars more than the five or six children of the shop- keeper himself and a few of the children of his employees attended. I had to interfere, and after laying the whole case before the board I got his salary, but he lost his result fees year after year. 16801. And the children lost their education ? — Yes, but they got up a Land League School in the town, in the Land League room, and they [319 [ 24 ] appointed as teacher a very objectionable man whom I had dismissed as a monitor before, and refused to give him employment. 16802. Sir James Caird. — And this all arose from the boycotting of this tradesman ? — Yes, it all arose from that. 16803. And why was the tradesman boycotted? — It was a trade jealousy. He was doing an excellent trade in the place. He was turning ,£20,000 a year in the little town, and he was making a profit on it of ,£1,000 or £ 1,200 . 16804. And I suppose it was thought that he was monopolising trade ? — Yes ; it was thought, in fact, that he was taking too much, and he had disputes with two or three men about the working of the roads or con- tracts, and these were not the best characters, they had this thing against him. 16805. Was the man himself otherwise a respectable man ? — Very respectable. Very likely he will be before you in Cork. He has got a summons to appear before you in Cork. 16806. Did the boycotting limit itself to the particular man without going to the county in any way? — It has extended through the entire place, and anyone that had anything to do with him was boycotted, or if anyone offended the laws of the League they were immediately boy- cotted. 16807. The President. — I suppose the people who boycotted him took advantage of the League to gratify their private animosities? — They took advantage of the League for the purpose of ruining him, and the men em- ployed in it were members of the League. 16808. And he had no appeal to a higher branch of the League? — He did appeal. He wrote to Davitt and several of them, and he wrote to the executive of the League, and they took no notice at all of what he stated. They did not take the slightest notice of his letters. I think he appealed also to Mr. Healy and to Mr. Parnell, but I know he wrote to Mr. Davitt and some others telling them how he was treated, and they did not take the slightest notice of his letters. 16809. They did not even answer his letters ? — No, sir. 16810. Sir James Caird. — It was not a question of Protestant or Catholic in any way? — It had no more to do with that than this country has to do with India or any other place ; no connexion whatsoever. The Catholics, when they offended, were just as severely boycotted as any other people. 168 11. Was this gentleman a Catholic? — Yes, a member of my own congregation, and when I did not join them they did all they could to prevent the people paying their dues and money for the support of the clergy of the parish. 320 ] [ 25 ] i68i2. In fact they tried to boycott you 5 — Yes, they did all they could, and of course it went on to crime ; it went on to different crimes. There were different crimes committed, and in the end two of the gang that were engaged in all these things were murdered by their •own companions. 16813. What year was this ? — These murders took place in 1884, I think, as well as I remember. 16814. And the boycotting of the shopkeepei, when did this occur ? — It commenced in 1880. 16815. Then it is some time ago? — Yes; and it was believed and supposed, and I believe it myself, that the first of these men that was murdered, was murdered because he knew the parties that fired at Hegarty, at one time passing the road. 16816. And it was not found out who murdered him ? — It was never found out to conviction, but it was very well known who the parties were. It was on a Sunday this man was murdered, in a wood close to the town, about between 3 and 4 o’clock in the evening, and this man that was murdered was seen leaving the town with a companion. The policeman who saw them leaving knew the man that was murdered, but did not know whothe companion was, the policeman being a stranger, but hesaid he would know the man again. I desired him to keep a strict eye out for this man from the time of the murder. At that time there was no district inspector, because Millstreet was connected with the Macroom district. After two or three days lapsed the companion of the murdered man appeared in town, and the policeman identified him. The policeman then reported to his officer, and the officer took counsel with his superiors as to whether this man should be arrested, and the officer was told it would be better to wait for some days to see if any further information should be collected. In the meantime they found in the wood where the man was murdered a picture which fell out of a prayer book of another man, and cousin of the man that left town with him. There were some other parties that were known to be at the head of this mischief seen going towards this wood on the Sunday after service was over, and there were six or eight men thus seen. The police were desired to watch the six or •eight men, including this man that was in company with the murdered man. There was a police hut close to his residence, and, the sergeant in charge there was desired on no account to lose sight of this man by day and by night, when he was in his house to have the house carefully watched so that he could not escape ; that went on during the week, from Sunday to Sunday. I denounced the murder in the strongest language I could find, in the church, and I believe that some of the murderers were listening to me at the time. Immediately after the service was over the police saw that some of these men were making away, some towards the railway station in Millstreet, within a mile from the town [321 [ 26 ] and others towards Kantur k station, and they stopped there. The district inspector was that evening dining with me, and just as we were at dinner, about 6 o’clock, a message came from the hut to say that evidence had reached the police that the man who was the companion of the murdered man had escaped. He at once, thinking that the man might have gone to Cork, sent the sergeant of the hut off by car to Cork, across the mountains, he telegraphed to Cork to arrest him if he made his appearance there. After scouring the county for three weeks and searching every place they could not find him. At the end of the three weeks his remains were found in a lake. In a mountain lake, on the hill above the lake, is a cliff which slopes from the water’s edge to a considerable height, and at the top of this over the lake, this man, whose name was Dennehy, was murdered. The doctor that made the postmortem examination told me he was quite satisfied that the men that murdered the first man in the wood were the same that murdered the second man at the lake. 16817. To prevent his giving information ? — It went abroad during the three weeks that it was very likely the Crown might get him to give information about the murder, and also that if he did not give himself up that he would be taken, that he would be caught by the police, and then that he could not be trusted, and they gave that for the reason for his being murdered. A half dozen men were arrested during the time that he was on the run. 16818. And none of them were convicted? — None of them could be convicted for want of evidence, though there was very strong circumstantial evidenceagainst them. 16840. Then they must go out, the young men? — I do not see any- thing else they have to do, unless they have some occupation to turn to in the country, some industrious opening. At present I do not see what else they have to do, as it is they are quite discontented, I can see that. 16841. The younger portion of the population ? — Yes, the younger por- tion of the families, the eldest is not as dissatisfied as the others, because he thinks he is to get the land by and by, but there are three or four others, the younger members of the family, who are by no means satisfied, and one thing with another they do not see why they should work when there is no final benefit in prospect for them. 16842. Are those persons who become boycotters chiefly of that class without any occupation ? — They are to a great extent idlers. 16843. And young people ? — Yes, and those who have no stake in the country, and a few of them small artizans, such as shoemakers and servant boys, and people like that ; in fact there are at present about a half-dozen of that class who rule the whole place, and everyone is afraid to do an independent act in consequence of the terrorism. 322 ] [ 27 ] 16844* Terrorism exercised by this small number of insignificant people ? — A small gang of fellows not worth twopence halfpenny, at this present moment there are shopkeepers in the town who are afraid to do anything in consequence of the terrorism that is exercised. The butcher the other day was threatened for serving meat to Mr. Wallis of Drishane Castle because he continued to employ Hegarty, and it goes on to a fearful extent in that way. It is carried into the very schools, as I told you, and at this present moment it is carried on in the school where the children of the steward of Hegarty are attending. They are threatened. Then the difficulty that people have of telling at present what has been done to them is intensified very much by the treat- ment that the Curtin family have received, find also the family of the name of Doyle. They gave evidence and convicted parties at the Cork Winter Assizes. There have been raids made and houses attacked in my district, and nothing has been told to the police by the owner ; they have kept it quite to themselves, because they feared that if they handed any- one over to justice they would meet the same fate. There was a farmer’s house attacked last Friday evening. The family were coming from church, from prayers, and three fellows jumped into the yard with their faces blackened, and demanded a gun that was inside. The farmer’s son said, “ Come in, and I will give it to you,” and when he came to the door he politely allowed the stranger to pass in first. He then caught him by the back of the neck, and wrenched from his hand a revolver and said, “Now I know you very well ; you are so and so,” He whined and cried, and begged for mercy, and asked to be let go, and he would never come to the place again if he was allowed to go. After a regular family con- sultation they came to the conclusion that it was much better to let him go than to hand him over to the police, and get themselves into the same trouble as the Curtin family and the Doyles. 16845. Sir James Caird. — And they let him go ? — Yes. The only per- son in the whole place that was told anything about it was myself. That is only one case. Now there is another thing I wish to mention with regard to the butter business in the country. 16846. The President. — Yes. Would you kindly tell us what you have to say on that subject ? — I need not tell you that the price of butter has fallen immensely within the last 18 months especially, and I think there is a great deal of that owing to the treatment which Irish butter receives in the Cork Market. I was speaking about a fortnight ago to one of the most respectable merchants in the Cork market on the subject, and he told me that butter was stored by the exporters, perhaps for a fortnight or three weeks in their stores in Cork, and kept there in musty, badly venti- lated stores, and when it is sent across to England, of course, it is depre- ciated in value to a great extent. That finally affects the farmer and the purchaser of the butter. Some means, I think, should be established to [32a [ 28 ] have the butter branded with the date on which it is passed into the Cork market, and the exporter should be compelled to send the butter into the English market as soon as possible. THE COLLIER CASE. 18489& [Mr. Geo. Collier, Dingle.] — Upon what grounds have you been boycotted ; is there any reason ? — The first of all boy- cotting seems to have originated there. The National League branch was managed by little shopkeepers in the town, and mechanics, but the shop- keeping element had rather the control of it. The first boycotting was an endeavour to break up the business of a large trader who had settled in the place, and who was rather interfering with their profits. Then some few people refused to boycott this firm of Atkins and Co., of Cork, who ■owned the branch establishment in question. Some few acting on principle refused to join in the annoyance to this house, and continued to deal with them. We were amongst the number, and we then got boycotted ourselves. After a little time Atkins and Co. made peace with the League and were let off; but they continued to boycott us, and they alleged as a reason our connection with Mr. Hussey. Mr. Hussey owns some land in the neighbourhood and we have been of assistance to him — not in the way of any employment at all — but my father and he were old friends, and anything that he could do to convenience him or to oblige him he was always ready to do, and he was under obligations to him that he felt and wished to discharge by assisting him in any way he could. 1S490. So that the boycotting was taken off the firm for which you were originally boycotted for trading with them, and though that was taken off they continued to boycott you because you had some friendly relations with Mr. Hussey? — Precisely, sir. 18491. Well? — It has continued from that to this, and of course they have made it as severe as ever they can. I have even had to drive into Tralee to get my horse shod. 18492. Mr. Neligan . — How many miles is that? — Thirty-two miles — and I have had to do that to get my horse shod, and now it is only a blacksmith who is boycotted himself and who lives about twelve miles away from us that shoes the horse for me. I drive there to get him shod, and he shoes him for me. - 324 ] [ 29 ] 1 8493. Do you mean to say that you have to go twelve miles to get your horse shod ? — Oh, yes, sir ; and the slightest labour that is to do we were not able to obtain. We got a few men to work for us for a few days, and then the League boycotted these men and said that if they did not at once leave the employment they would not get any supplies — that they would be ruined. 18494. Sir James Caird. — And have you complained to the authorities about this boycotting ? — The authorities are quite aware of it. 18495. they can do nothing? — They don’t do anything at all events. 18496. Are others besides yourself in that place — are they boycotted — others as well as yourself? — Mr. Fleming, the Protestant clergyman living at Ventry about three miles away — he is similarly situated. 18497. You are a Roman Catholic yourself? — I am a Roman Catholic. 18498. And you are speaking of the Protestant clergyman being boycotted? — Yes, sir. 18499. So that it is not a question of religion at all? — Not at all, sir. 18500. It is simply a question of disobedience to orders of the League ? — Yes ; and the League is not conducted merely with a view to the assistance of the land struggle, but the men directing it in the local branches are so dishonest that they use it for their own purposes, each and everyone of them ; and every man who has an axe to grind or a spite to indulge uses the League for that purpose. 18501. You say you cannot get labourers to work regularly? — No, sir. 18502. And your servants — have they been noticed? — We have been without domestic servants for a long time. We have one at present. We succeeded in getting one lately, but we had to spend a great long time without one at all; and though we had engaged several, just as they were on the point of coming it was discovered by the “ League police,” and word was at once sent to them that they must not be with us, and that if they were to come to our employment they were to suffer penalties, and so they were prevented from coming. 18503. You have an island farm I believe? — Yes sir; we have four islands. 18504. And have you to take boats to them? — Yes. 18505. Has there been any attempt by the League to interfere with your enjoyment of those islands, and the property there ? — Oh, certainly. They have not only succeeded in making those islands unprofitable, but a severe loss. They won’t allow anyone to take us out there. We sheep farm those islands and every year a considerable portion of the flock of [ 30 ] the older ewes has to be drawn off or let perish. We have not been able to do that, and we have lost those sheep for two years now in succession. One of the islands we only graze in the summer. It is rather a fattening island, and we were accustomed to put off the young shoot from the other islands upon it to fatten them, and to bring them in and sell them, and last year the produce on that island went entirely against us. I8506. Are the islands some distance from the mainland? — The nearest one is four miles from the mainland, but from Dingle it would be about twenty miles, for we usually go round in a large “ hooker ” to do such work as bringing in the work or putting them out. 18507. Then these islands are some distance away from Dingle, and it is necessary that you should, in order to get to them, you should have a large boat to carry you there? — To do any large work we must take a “hooker” around from Dingle. 18508. And does the “ hooker ” belong to people in Dingle ? Yes, it does. 18509. And they are directed not to hire their boats to you ? Yes, sir. 18510. And who will not allow her to be used, or themselves to be hired by you in order to facilitate your visiting your property upon those islands ? — They are afraid to do so. The boatowners would be pleased to do it, but they dare not. The poor men would suffer more than we could recompense them for. In the case of the island nearest the mainland we used to go out in a small class of boat to see the flocks occasionally, and those people who are under obligations to us in many ways are now quite afraid to do that portion of the work too, and we cannot get out in that way at all. 185 1 1. Even from the nearest point? — We can have no communication with it now at all. 18512. Are those men also prohibited by the orders of that branch of the League from giving any assistance of that kind? — Yes, sir. 18513. And they would be very willing to do it but that they feel them- selves obliged to forbear? Exactly so, sir. They have been visited by members of the League and written to, and it was plainly intimated to them that they must not do it, and they understand what disobedience means. 18514. Have you a large stock of sheep on these islands? — Several hundred. 18515. Any cattle? — No cattle. 18516. Have you suffered seriously from this prevention of getting easy access to the island ? — We have suffered severely for the past two or three years. That island that I have spoken of as the fattening island was 326 ] [ 31 ] seized upon altogether this year, and they took it away from us, and are grazing upon it themselves. 18517. Did they remove your stock? — We had no stock. We are accustomed to put the stock on at the beginning of the summer and to remove it about the 1st of October. 18518. Yes? — Well, this year the inhabitants of the Great Blasket — there are about twenty families resident upon it, and they, incited by the neighbour- ing branch of the League, came down upon our island with their cattle — with a number of their stock. 18519. Mr. Neligan . — And held it against you ? — Certainly, sir. 18520. Sir James Caird . — Who does this island belong to? — Lord Cork is the owner. 18521. Does Lord Cork not interfere in any way? — I had an interview with his agent, Mr. O’ Kearney, and explained all to him, and he even went out there and saw the cattle for himself. But what can Lord Cork do ? He cannot get his rents out of these people. Even the county cess and poor rates cannot be got from them. 18522. And you are not only prevented from landing and looking after stock on one island but you are actually ousted from the possession of another? — Quite so. The law in our part of the country is utterly helpless, and I have no reason to think it is different all over Kerry. 0 THE CASE OF THE CORK BLACKSMITH 18592. [Mr. J. Hamilton, Q.C., Recorder of Cork.] — I think you said that in this county very considerable desire exists on the part of the landlords to meet the reasonable wants and necessities of the tenants at this moment? — Unquestionably. You asked me about boycotting. Now, I will give you a case that occurred before me the day before yesterday. You will see it reported in the “Constitution ” of to-day. A farmer let a forge to three men, smiths, on these terms : they were to make a money payment and to shoe his horses. This occurred at Ovens, a place within a few miles of the city of Cork. The man was boy- cotted and the smiths refused to work for him, although he was a member of the Land League himself. He was then obliged to send his horses in to Cork to be shod. Then he brought a process against the smiths for [327 [ 32 ] breach of contract and the damage done to him by being obliged to send his horses into Cork. In the case he told us how he came to be boycotted. He said there was a property in the Court of Chancery, and a receiver was appointed, and the receiver put up the grazing of some of the land to- let, and there were four proposals sent in for the grazing by four members of the Ovens Land League. One was put in by the cousin of this man, and he was accepted, and thereupon his brother leaguers got him boy- cotted, and they refused to allow anyone to speak to him, and the plaintiff in the case before me was boycotted because he spoke to his cousin who was boycotted. 18593. What was the cause of action on the part of the plaintiff? — It was because the smith refused to shoe his horses. 18594. But how did the case come on ? — You see the man sent his horses- to Cork to be shod, and he processed the smiths for breach of contract and for the damages he sustained because he was obliged to send his horses to Cork to be shod. It was a very pitiable case, for these poor smiths would be boycotted themselves if they shod the man’s horses. I was asked to make the amount of the decree payable by small instal- ments, but I refused because that would be a direct encouragement to boycotting, and I said that I thought those who took away their business should recoup them for the damage they sustained. It really looks like a return to the middle ages. 18595. What was the remedy the man got ? — He got a decree, and he got his damages, but I do not know whether he will be able to execute his decree or not. The plaintiff in cross-examination was asked the name of the smith in Cork who shod the horses, and though he himself was an active member of the Land League he refused to give the name on the ground that the man would be boycotted if it were known. 18596. Is the law unable to reach those cases ? — Practically so in many cases. o THE STORY OF THE BROTHERS TROY 19422. The President . — You hold a farm together? — (No. 1.) Yes. 19423. This farm you purchased in 1878 ? — (No. 1.) Yes, your honour 19424. And you paid £180 for the interest of it? — (No. 1.) Yes, my lord. 19425. What is the size of the farm? — (No. 1.) Fifteen Irish acres at £34 13s. 328 ] [ 33 ] 19426. And you remained in possession of that farm until 1884. — (No. 1.) Yes, your honour. 19427. What happened then? — (No. 1.) It seems our neighbours put the parties, that we paid for the land, up to go to law with us and take our land from us. 19428. Who did you buy from? — (No. 2.) One Catherine Burke your honour. (No. 1.) The first of it was your honour, the bit of land was joining our farm, and we paid for leaving our cattle on it, and we did so, and we had a gap to leave our cattle into the place and they came and put up a fence there before us, and when we came to throw it down and he came opposite us, and he said we should have no more to do with it, but we threw down the gap. (No. 2.) And we left John Burke in possession of the house your honour, and a small portion of ground after buying the land, though we were not bound to do so, and a small bit of the haggard for a quiet life. (No. I.) In order to befriend him. (No. 2.) And we left him the crops during the time. Then when we saw how he was getting on we brought an ejectment against him before the Recorder of Cork for the possession of the house and haggard, and we got a decree for the possession. Then, it seems, the Land League gave him money to carry us further into law, and we were served with a writ of the High Court of Justice before the Master of the Rolls, and the case was tried by the Master of the Rolls, and he gave judgment in our favour, and we did not get a penny costs, and I can show you the bill of costs that we paid to our attorney. It is cruel costs, and we could not pay a penny of them. (No. 1) He put us to any amount of crossness, your honour. (No. 2.) For amusement to themselves. (No. I.) That is our bill of costs for the attorney, ^100, besides what we had to pay before. We lost ^200 in costs and we have to pay £ 2 an acre for the land. (No. 2.) They put us to all that costs, your honour, all through their blackguarding. 19429. The Land League interfered in the case? — (No. 1 .) They were at the bottom of all that was going on in the case. It seems the Crimes Act was in being then, and it just went out when we gained the lawsuit and when we gained the land they turned round and called upon us to give up the land, and when we refused they boycotted us severely on the two farms and we were persecuted by them. 19430. Mr. Neligan . — You appeared before the Land League Court? — (No. I.) No, sir, I did not go until I was going to surrender the farm. I would not go as long as I could. They had the case several times in the papers, and I could see how it was going on. I met a few of the principal men in the League when I was boycotted. They were neighbours, and I thought I ought to have confidence in them, and I spoke to one of them, a high man in the League, and he told me that he had no control, that I should give up the land, and that we would get no compensation. I told d [329 [ 34 ] him we would give up the land if we were paid our money, but he said we would be paid no money, and that how could I expect to do what the Government of England could not do. 1943 1. Th z President. — What is that? — (No. 1.) To stand up against boycotting and public opinion, and he said the Government will not protect you any longer. 19432. You gave up the land then ? — No, that was only the commence- ment of it. 19433. How long did you hold the land? — (No. 1.) Well, we were thoroughly boycotted about the 1st of August, and we gave it up on the 4th or 5th of October. 19434. What did the boycotting consist of ? — (No. 2.) Everything that was bad. (No. 1.) Everybody left us, and we could not go out but at night. We did not go out for the rest of the week after the 1st of August, and our land and our crops were going waste. 19435. Who was the man who spoke of what the Government could not do? — (No. 1.) He was the treasurer of the Land League. He said, How can you expect to do what the Government of England cannot <£ do ? ” “ What is that ? ” I says. “ To stand up,” says he, “ in defiance “ of public opinion and good boycotting.” 19436. Were you in danger, in actual personal danger ? — (No. 1.) Certainly. A valuable horse of mine was poisoned in the field, and I never got a penny for it. The cattle also went dry about the fields, and we could not get a bit to eat for any money. Though we had the money in our pockets, we could not get it, and even in the chapel they were posted near us, and the clothes were torn off my sister. 19437. Inside the chapel? — (No. 1.) It was not. It was in the chapel yard, but I knew persons to sit near us in the chapel. 19438. Had you any difficulty in getting food? — (No. 1.) We could :get nothing except through our friends, and then losing double for it. 19439. Where is this place? — (No. 1.) At Newtown Shandrum. 19440. And who is the president of the League? — (No. 1.) One John Rea, Shandrum. 19441. What is he? — (No. 1.) We do not know. He is about the place 19442. What position in life has he? — (No. 1.) He has nothing. He is the brother of a small farmer. (No. 2.) He stops a night here and there, but he has not a bit of land. He stops with his friends. (No. 1.) He has no house or land. 19443. And he sat there as president of this Court? — (No. 1.) He gets money for this. (No. 2.) We cannot say where he gets money. . 330 ] [ 35 ] 19444* He is paid for this work? — (No. i.) We expect so 1944 15. Who were present at this Court? — (No. 1.) The farmers round. 19446. What are their names ? What are the names of the principal men in it? — (No. 1.) “John Rea, of Shandrum, the president, “ was in the chair ; Mr. M‘Namara, of Ballynahill, P.L.G. ; the late “ Thomas Clarkson, of Newtown, farmer ; Daniel O’Brien, of Croagh, “farmer; William Murphy, of Newtown, farmer; Patrick Bennett, of “ Shandrum, farmer ; John Cullane, of Ballynahill, farmer ; John Rahilly, “of Croagh, farmer ; John M‘Auliffe, farmer and carpenter ; M. Madigan.” 19447. Are they farmers? — (No. 1.) There are two men especially who carried on this conspiracy. One of them is a poor-law guardian, named M‘Namara ; the other is M‘Auliffe. There is gravel and sand in this farm, and — had three labourers’ cottages to build, and he knew well that as long as we were in the farm he would not be able to get any material out of it, and so he boycotted us, and when we gave it up he was landlord and tenant himself, and he turned in his men and horses there and took away hundreds of loads of the sand without any cost, and so did the other man . These two men worked night and day to boycott us. (No. 2.) And we do not know any other motive for it except they wanted the material for their own interest. 19448. You held it up to 5th October, and then gave up the place? — (No. 1.) Yes. 19449. What year was this ? — (No. 1.) This was in 1885, last year, and we had no Defence Union or anything to assist us then. 19450. Did you go to the resident magistrate? — (No. 1.) We did, sir, and the police used to visit us, but they did nothing for us. 1945 1. Do you say the resident magistrate gave you no assistance? — (No. 1.) Not the least in the world. The police used to visit us, and no more. What was the use of that when we could not get any person to bring us anythimg. 19452. And was there no authority in the country to come between you and this treatment ? — (No. 1.) We did not see it. They said they had nothing to do for us, and our servants were banished ; even people would not be allowed to speak to ourselves. 19453. Did you receive a summons to appear before this Land League Court ? — (No. 1.) We did. (No. 2.) If we were to tell you all about it it would make a whole history ; we lost all our honest earnings and honest industry in it. 19454. Who has the place now ? — (No. 1.) John Burke has it. 19455. Is that the man who sold it to you ? — (No. 1.) Yes. 19456. And you lost your £180? — (No. 1.) Yes. 19457. And I understand that after the Master of the Rolls in Dublin [331 [ 36 ] de uded in your favour, this Land League Court tried the whole case over again and decided against you ? — (No. 2.) That is it, your honour. They took it up again, and tried it all over ; at the first meeting they held the rule was that we were to give up the place, and pay ^100. We have two letters to show from the curate. 19458. Did he take part with the League ? — (No. 1.) No, sir ; but he advised us to give up the place. There was a meeting in Liscarroll to es- tablish a branch of the National League there, and as I was stopping there since my sister’s husband died, I went to the meeting ; the platform was erected in the village, and I am well-known there ; we were boycotted at this time, and I went to the meeting, and I went on the platform to tell my story to the farmers to show how we got this place, and that it was no- case of land-grabbing, but as soon as I went on the platform I was caught and thrown off by M'Auliffe. Mr. Neligan. — Here is a remarkable paragraph in the paper dealing with this matter : — “ A most enthusiastic and orderly meeting of the “ above branch of the League was convened on Sunday, 2nd instant. “ The meeting was called upon by the secretary- (Mr. ) to protest “against the savage assault made by grabbers, and their aiders and “ abettors, on the peaceable and law -biding meeting held at the ‘ old walls “ ‘ of historic — ,’ for the purpose of establishing a branch of the “ League in their town. Close on 200 persons were present. The Michael “ Davitt Fife and Drum Band, under the auspices of this branch of the “ League, animated the entire proceedings with national airs. The League “ rooms was insufficient to contain one half of the number present. A “ large number of persons were present in attendance from the Milford “ parish. On the motion of Mr. , seconded by Mr. , “ that Mr. take the chair, Mr. took the chair. Others “ present were : — Messrs. \Here followed the names of those who ‘ attcnded.\ The chairman, on rising, returned thanks after making some “ remarks for the great honour they had conferred on him in voting him “ to take the chair on the occasion. (Hear, hear.) The secretary (Mr “ M ), on rising, said, he had to read for the meeting the entire matters “ dealing with the case of , a poor and helpless man, against , “ his uncle in question, who is holding his farm against public opinion. “ He (the secretary) perused a file of affidavits on the side of ’s ques- ‘‘ tion, also the affidavit of on the other hand. The affidavits of the “ valuators who inspected ’s farm were also laid before the meeting, “ in which it was clearly elucidated the farm, if put up for sale at that “ date, would realise close on ^300. The one made by valuator “stated that the land was not at that time worth ^100. Mr. M. F “ said he valued this farm of ’s along with Mr. M. R , and he “ could positively describe to this meeting that his farm at that date would, “ he really believed, realise close on £ 300 . This farm was, in its nature, 332 ] [ 37 ] 41 one of a very good quality ; its depth of surface was close on 18 inches. “ Mr. , P.L.G., said he made a total of all farm produce concerning “ this case of , and he found, by his experience of such business, 4£ that the were indebted to poor — — for ^150. (Hear, hear.) The “ following resolutions were passed and carried unanimously : Resolved, “ ‘ That nothing less than the unconditional surrender of ’s <£ ‘ farm at N — — S -, along with ^100 to compensate him for the net “ ‘ value of his farm, which the — — have gained during their term of “ ‘ settlement, will meet the wishes of this branch, and we pledge our- “ ‘ selves to stand constitutionally at his back ; and we call on all the 4£ ‘ surrounding branches to aid us in our fight against such parties who “ ‘ are holding his farm against public opinion.’ (Hear, hear.) £ That ££ £ we emphatically condemn the cowardly and wanton attack made by a <£ £ clique of land-grabbers, aided by a drunken set of pseudo-irishmen, on ££ £ the law-abiding meeting held at . That we pledge ourselves to u £ stand shoulder to shoulder at the back of Ireland’s leader, C. S. Parnell, “ £ and his indefatigable band of noble representatives, who have con- ££ £ quered against Dublin Castle Bolton, French and Company, until we “ ‘ hail with delight the return to our land of our native parliament once “ £ more to College Green.’ ” (Applause.) (No. 1.) If you read on, your worship, there is more about it. Mr. Neligan continuing to read — ££ The chairman said he felt it his duty to describe to this meeting here to-day the savage rowdyism made at the meeting held at the old walls of , on Sunday last. The chairman (Mr. M ) in giving a clear account of the assault made, said : — I remember attending the meeting at . I was on the platform when was addressing them. ‘ and a band of reprobates of that town hooted the speakers at several Intervals. For some time the speakers on the platform were unable to address the meeting owing to and his gang. ascended the platform and expressed at some length epithets at several members of this branch of the League. I took on myself the responsibility of throwing him from the platform. (Applause.) The meeting soon after dissolved. The grabbers and company concocted several intrigues in order to have sufficient revenge on several members of this branch. Myself, along with the secretary (Mr. ), were going home through the town when an assault was again made. The secretary and myself received some rough handling for some time, but in a short time we were forced to retreat. This shows that but for the manly efforts made by the members of this branch the entire meeting would be broken up. I say they are dealing with a spirit in that will not retreat from their manly efforts until poor and his helpless family be once more restored to his farm. (Hear, hear.) Mrs. said— Gentlemen, I beg leave to say a few words f to this meeting. I have been working for some time with the , and now [333 [ 38 ] come to this meeting to pledge myself that henceforward I will not do so There is one other fact which I feel it my duty to make known to all present — that there are two members of this branch whom I have seen talking to . The chairman — Let me know who these parties are. (Several voices — speak up.) I have seen speaking to some days ago. “ Mr. explained that the affair referred to was the closing of a transaction with with who he had been in partnership in the owner- ship of a bull. “ The meeting accepted the explanation as satisfactory. Mr. also complained that Mr. had loaded a gun for . “ Mr. said he would not repeat his connection with , and he was retained in membership on this condition. “ Mr. M. gave an interesting review of the great progress made by the national cause under Mr. Parnell’s leadership. It was decided to hold a demonstration in condemnation of land-grabbing.” 19459. The President . — Well, it is a curious story. Where are you Jiving now ? — (No. 1.) Oh, we have more land, and we are living on it. We never lived in this place at all. (No. 2.) It is the chairman of the meeting that is carrying on all the boycotting, and he often came begging to our house, and now he is the man that robbed us of everything. (No. 1. ) And we often gave him charity at our door. 19460. You had no idea that anybody had a claim on this farm? — (No. 2.) No, your honour. We had the whole thing registered in Dublin, but the Land League broke through it all again. 19461. Whereabouts is the place ? — (No. 1.) It is near Charleville. (No. 2. ) It would take us until to-morrow to tell you all they done. (No. 1.) Our sister was boycotted too in Liscarroll. The hay was scattered about the fields, and horses were turned in oft the road into the place, and then poisoned,and the police were noticed of it, but as we could not get any vet. to inspect the horse, if we gave ^50 to him, we never got a penny for that fine horse, and we are robbed and beggared by them. (No. 2.) And the whole of it was that we would not go with them in the beginning. (No. 1.) And that we paid our rent. (No. 2.) They would be shouting at us when we would go into a fair, and they would give the town rowdies drink to shout a boo at us. I was coming home one night on horseback and a shower of stones were thrown at me, and I would be killed on the road only for the horse. 19462. Were there any other parties in the district who were injured under the same circumstances ? — (No. 1.) Well, no, sir. We tried to keep up ourselves, but we had to give up altogether. (No. 2.) What harm but to lose all our money in the place, and 40 fine cows to run dry, 334 ] [ 39 ] and without one servant. (No. i.) If we talked about it for another month we would not be done. The cows ran dry about the fields. There is no knowing what we suffered for it. They had several Leagues for miles around blackguarding us. (No. 2.) Tell about the cage. (No. 1.) When we saw that we could not keep the land I went to the Land League and waited until the case was called. 19463. Mr . Neligan. — Where did you go ? — (No. 1.) Into the League rooms. 19464. Into their court ? — (No. 1.) Yes. I think there were three cases before mine, and I said what were they going to do. Were they going to rob me entirely. They said there was a rule of a ^,100 against me, the last, and that I should give up the land ; but that if I gave up the land now I would be charged nothing. I said it was a cruel shame, and that they knew very well that we had no money that we did not make honestly by the sweat of our brow. They said that I should give up the land, that I was in an iron cage, and that they would squeeze it on me. (No. 2.) That was the boycotting, your honour. We were afraid that our people would be boycotted in the same way, and we gave up the land. 19465. Where exactly is this place ? — (No. 1.) It is three miles from Charleville. 19466. And who is the parish priest? — (No. 1.) He is a Father Beechiner ; but he is not a sensible man, and he did not give us any assistance. 19467. And who is the curate ? — (No. 1.) He is Father M‘Rea, R — . He is a respectable mai. 19468. He took your part? — He advised us to give up the land. He could do nothing for us. 19469. Did he join with others ? — (No. 1.) No, sir. No, he did not take any part in it, and he would be in dread to speak of it off the altar. What shall we do about the malicious injury. 19470. You had better consult a solicitor ? — (No. 2.) We have enough of costs already. We would not like our names to come out, as they would be at us again, if they knew we made this complaint. 1947 1. The President. — Very well, the names will not be published. (No. 2.) Make it a malicious injury on them, your honour, and they will drop it in a hurry. o [ 40 ] DEPRIVED OF CHAPEL AND SCHOOL. 19472. [Mr. John Edward Barrett, Cork.] — The Presi- dent. — You are a landlord and agent, and a farmer also ? — Yes. 19473. You farm your own land ? — I do. 19474. And you act as agent for yourself and other people? — I do. 19493. Is there much boycotting going on in your part of the country ? — In my immediate neighbourhood there are nine boycotted farmers. 195 12. Are these men near one another, or are they isolated ? — Well, I instituted some sort of association between the nine men. They live within a circuit of three square miles, and when we could not provide them with labour I suggested that they should assist one another, and now they have an arrangement for going to each man’s farm to cut his corn if necessary, in little bodies of five or eight together, so that they might assist each other in their farming operations. I 95 1 3* The President. — How do they manage to attend their places of worship ? — Most of them do not go at all. If they did they would be hooted at, and booed, and insulted. 19514. And the result is they do not go at all ? — Quite so. I know that as a matter of fact, as I go to the same chapel as some of the men go to. 19515. You are yourself a Roman Catholic? — I am. I go to the same chapel as these men attended, and they tell me they will not go now to be insulted and hooted, and they actually do not go. Some of them go, but the majority do not. The mothers and the children of the family are equally isolated. 19516. Can the children attend the national schools ? — They will not go, because, in one instance I know from personal knowledge, one of these men sent his children to school, and the schoolmaster was noticed not to continue teaching these children, and he persevered in teaching them, and the result was that all the other children left the school. I 95 I 7- What happened to these children ; how did they get their edu- cation ? — Tbe children of the man who was boycotted were kept at home and then the other children returned again. 19518. The children had to go away from the school ? — Yes. o 336 ] [ 41 ] “I COULD NOT SEND MY CHILDREN TO SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE MURDERED .” 19573. [Mr. Eugene M‘Carthy, Cork.] — You are a tenant-farmer living near Bantry ? — Yes, sir. 19574. You took a farm from which a man was evicted? — Yes, sir. 19575. What has happened to you since ? Have you been boycotted ? — I am boycotted, sir, since. They came in a short time afterwards and they cut the tails off two cows and a bull, and they used to come along the road asking, “ Did you eat much of it?” and they knocked down a rick on me and scattered it about, and whenever the children would go along the road, they would shout land-grabber, and that they should not go along the road at all. 19576. Did you send your children to school? — I could not send them there for they would be murdered. 195 77. Do you go to mass? — I do, sir ; but I did not go mostly about three weeks, but the children cannot go because of the groaning and the calling names. I have a little “ gossoon,” and I sent him to the village for a message, and when the schoolboys were coming out he was coming along the road, and they were slashing at him with turnips and potatoes, and there was one that was worse than the rest, and he threw him on the road and his head was bruised, and there was a pain in his head for a fortnight. 19578. They threw him down on the roadside ? — When they got to the end of the cross this “gossoon” that was against him tumbled him. He is called one Sweeney. 19579. Are you under police protection? — I am, sir. When Sweeney was convicted, the sergeant told me that he was half-an-hour with him, and when he came to me, he said, “ You are the man that most stands in “ danger that I know. If you hadn’t police protection I would not trust “ that man from what he said to me there now inside.” 19580. Can you sell your stock in the fairs and markets ? — I cannot. If I had cows there they would be around the place and pulling one another, and pointing to the cows, and saying he was a boycotted man, and that there was the smell of the land-grabber about him, and every- body in Bantry would be calling me names. There was a man four or five miles away from me, and he was talking to one of my sons, and he did not know it, and he said to the little boy, “ Strike three strokes on that bull “ there.” “ If you do,” says the boy, “ take care of me.” [337 [ 42 ] 1 9581. Can you get your horses shod? — No, sir ; I must go to Michael Hegarty, of Dunmarris. 19582. You are protected by the Defence Union ? — Yes, sir. 19583. And you are better off since you got the assistance of the Defence Union ? — Oh, we are, sir, for I am a stranger in that county, I am from near Macroom. We left Macroom 35 years ago, and we have no friends there at all. THE BOYCOTTING OF CAPTAIN RYE. 20314. [Captain R. TONSON Rye.] — Is that in conse- quence of having asked for your rents ? — No. 20315. Why? — I never evicted a tenant in my life, nor my father before me, and it was a most extraordinary thing that I should be boycotted. A poor law guardian for my division was to be elected, and the only reason I can give for the boycotting was that the chairman of the National League in the district was the candidate, and he was opposed by a tenant of mine, who had been for many years a poor law guardian, and he was deputy vice-chairman of the poor law board in the Bandon Union. He came to me and I gave him my vote and interest, and I asked my tenants to vote for him ; but he was thrown out by the present chairman of the Land League, and from the opposition I gave that man I think I was boycotted ; that is the only reason I can assign for it. There was no diffe- rence between me and my tenants. I was in the habit of letting my land in grazing, and letting my meadowing by auction, and it was a great accommodation to the people and to the farming class there. But the last time I was letting my land my auctioneer was Mr. Marsh. They gathered a crowd of 50 or 60 people from the different Land League branches, and they compelled the people at the auction to come out of the fields, and they came up booing to my place, and the consequence was that it was a very serious loss to me, for I was not prepared for it, and I think I have been boycotted ever since. o BOYCOTTING THE BABE UNBORN. 24504. [Mr. E. M. Richards, Wexford.] — We should like to have something recent [in the way of boycotting]. Is the second instance going on? — It is going on to day. 338 . [ 43 ] 24505* Then we should like to hear that. — It commenced before the blacksmith’s case. I could go on for hours with these cases, but I would weary you. 24506. Give us this case. — The other case ? 24507. The other case. — If you wish I will give you the name of the blacksmith, John Cullen, near Killan, Enniscorthy Union, County Wexford. He cannot be hurt more than he is. The other man is James Burke, if possible a still blacker sheep among them. In 1880, when the first anti-rent combination occurred there, all my tenants met on the property, and the great majority of them refused to pay their rents. Burke, for one man, left the group, turned on his heel and came in in sight of and before them all and paid his rent. That was the first thing turned the Land League against him. Still he was not boycotted then ; but they did not like him on account of it. It required great courage on his part. Two or three years afterwards a tenant told me he had his rent in his pocket and would not pay it ; and for the first time I had to eject him. This Burke, this courageous man, took his farm, for it was adjoining Burke’s holding. Then commenced the worst boycotting you ever knew, for a small box of matches Burke could not get in the neighbouring shops. He could not get his shoes mended. I used to take a man to work in my house at night pretending that the work was for me, and I got him to mend Burke’s shoes. He had to go eleven miles backwards and forwards, that is twenty-two miles altogether to get shoes on his horse. It was the same with the meal ; the same with everything. The country shopkeepers and the town shopkeepers in Ross and Enniscorthy did not wish to lose him as a customer ; but they were compelled, one after another, to drop him. He went into the market with his horse and bought a sack of meal in Ross, and it was on Burke’s cart outside, and the shopkeeper sent a man to Burke’s cart, and said, “ Do give me back the meal. I have been warned not to sell to you, and if it was known it would ruin me.” And he gave him the meal, not wishing to hurt him. He could not get a particle of clothing. Still we have the mother of this refractory tenant who refused to pay his rent. She was a very respectable woman, and she was obliged to be put out when her son was evicted ; but Burke immediately put her back as a caretaker, with my consent. She was very grateful. These same poor law guardians, who coerced Cullen’s striker into leaving him by threatening to take the out-door relief from his mother, obtained for this same old woman £1 a week. This was considered so extravagant that the Local Government Board refused to pay it. This went on for two or three weeks. That showed how well the old woman [339 j [ 44 ] stood with the Land League at the time. Then it dropped down to something like three shillings, step by step. That went on for six months. Then it became noised abroad that she had become entirely friendly with Burke. I must tell you that his house was fired into, but no one was wounded ; and he had police protection for a length of time. Well, it became noised abroad among the Land Leaguers that the old woman had become friendly with Burke, and it was said, “Your out-door relief will be stopped.” In May Burke acquired the farm, and until the following Christmas the Land Leaguers maintained their course. The old woman became friendly with Burke. A short time after she helped him to pick potatoes, and immediately after the out-door relief was stopped. I wrote to the Local Government Board about the matter, and they said they had nopower to interfere ; if the woman went to the workhouse she would be admitted and receive proper treatment, but they could not interfere in the matter of out-door relief. This old woman was then eighty or eighty-one years of age. Her out-door relief was stopped because she earned a little money by picking potatoes for Burke. Burke’s child became ill of bowel complaint. The coarse yellow meal produced this disease. He went to a neighbouring country shop to get bread or white flour — I forget which — for his sick child, and he was refused it. They would not give it to him. I was away at the time. Of course, when my wife heard it she immediately sent everything they wanted. But that sick child was refused what was necessary for its health on account of Burke’s crime of taking an evicted farm. Now last summer there was another terrible instance of vindictiveness towards 24508. The President . — I think these are very good samples, the two instances you have given us, of what you have experienced of the system of boycotting. I think we won’t go into any more. — It is only Burke’s case continued. 24509. The President . — I thought you were beginning a new case? — Not at all. It is only to show that Burke’s persecution is still going on. Last summer a younger child — one lately born — the local midwife refused to attend the wife in her confinement, and she was delivered by the aid of this old woman, who was the only person to do anything for him. The child that was lately born became ill and died. Not a person came to the wake. There was no wake at all. Now every Irish person knows -what that means ; for every person in the country makes it a religion almost to go to the wake of a neighbour. Not a person came. Burke told me himself that men were posted on the fences to hinder any person from coming to the funeral. That is a very pregnant thing in Ireland. And Burke had to carry his child to the Roman Catholic churchyard on 340 ] r 45 ] his own cart. He could get no person to dig the grave for him, and he had to dig the grave himself for his own child. That is a thing unheard of in this country. It occurred last summer, and things are going on in the same way exactly. 24510. These were very recent cases ? — Time is such an object that that will be sufficient, but I could tell you more and more. I could go on for hours with cases of this kind, if necessary, but that is enough. One thing I want to say, my lord ; a better set of people I never met in my life than those around where I live. Until the Land League commenced crime was perfectly unknown ; but they were timid and were led away by this organisation THE CASE OF MR. PURDON COOTES BOG-BAILIFF . 27468. [Mr. C. Purdon Coote, Co. Cork] — Then can you give some information about combinations? — Yes. In many estates about me the tenants have combined against paying rent, and in some cases they have adopted this Plan of Campaign that is put forward by United Ireland , and are lodging the rents in the hands of trustees. 27469. That has not happened to you ? — That has not happened to me. 27470. Do you anticipate anything of the sort ? — Not if the Government are firm now ; I think it will come to an end. It all depends on what action is now taken. Many of the tenants were obliged to adopt this plan through fear. 27471. I see you have got some written notes. Is there any other point you wish to mention ? — Well, about boycotting. 27472. We shall be glad to hear you on that ? — I wanted specially to bring before your notice the case of a bog-bailiff of mine. The bog-bailiff or bog-ranger is the man who looks after the bog. My agent and I had discovered that the tenants on part of my estate to the north of Kanturk were selling my turf to the public without my permission, and we decided to appoint a bog-bailiff ; the bailiff that I had previously died a few years ago, and we had not appointed a man in his place. Before appointing the bailiff we asked the tenants if one of them would take the place, and several of them were anxious to do so. Two or three volunteered to do so, and suddenly the National League stepped in — we have reason to believe it was the National League — and prevented these men from doing so. These men came and said they were very sorry that they could [341 [ 46 ] not act as bailiffs. We advertised then in the Cork papers, and two men applied for the post, one of whom I appointed — a man who lived close to my property. Shortly after, he was boycotted. I must tell you that we had reason to believe that the tenants were selling to the public at a much higher price the turf than the proper value. 27473. Had your tenants any right to cut except for their own burning ? — This was all mine. Every tenant had so much bog. We gave each tenant so much turf, for which he paid us a nominal sum ; but then we found that they were selling to the public at a great deal higher price than the turf in other places, and they were selling what belonged to me. I want to tell you the exact amount that we are selling at. The price the tenants paid me for the turf was £1 for 120 kishes. That is a measure of turf ; about 8 cubic feet of turf. When I found this we appointed this bailiff, and we undertook to supply the public at the same price as I was giving it to the tenants, or slightly over. This unfortunate man then received notice that he was to leave my employment, as he had made himself obnoxious to the National League. He received a summons, a copy of which I have in my hand, summoning him to attend the League court (document handed in). His answer was that he would attend the court, provided the tenants on the estate were not to sit as a jury in his case — to try him, in fact. This was not granted, and he did not attend the National League court at that time (but he did subsequently), and the man a few nights after was what we call in our country “ moonlighted.” A large party of men came with blackened faces and guns, and broke into the house, and asked him if he would leave my employment, and insisted that he should leave my employment. He refused to do so, and he was then most severely beaten — kicked, struck with a gun over the head, severely beaten, and left lying for dead. 27474. How long ago was this ? — In last May. The men are now on their trial at the Cork Winter Assizes. 27475. Are they being tried now? — I shall tell you about that after- wards. His wife was then pulled out of bed. I can give you the exact date if you like. 27476. We do not care for very particular dates. It is the month of May? — His wife was then pulled out of bed and assaulted most brutally too, and struck over the head with a gun ; and those men were dis- guised with crape over their faces ; but before my man — his name is Walsh — was insensible he was able to tear the crape off some of their faces, and he identified eight. Before the moonlighters left the house they shot a dog in the house, and the child received several grains of shot in the feet and was very much injured, but has recovered. Walsh the bailiff, identified eight of those men, and swore an information against them, and they were arrested, and returned for trial to the Cork Winter . 342 ] [ 47 ] Assizes, and they are now to be tried this coming week. That is one case of boycotting on my own estate. BOYCOTTED BECAUSE OF DISOBEDIENCE OF UNWRITTEN LAW. 27694. [Mr. B. HORAN, Wicklow.] — You are boycotted, are you? — Yes. 27695. Why are they boycotting you ? — Why are they ? I do not know, except, perhaps, that I would not go with the rule of Ireland. 27696. You ventured to do something for yourself without their ap- proval ?— I am going contrary to what they call the League. 27697. And they boycotted you in consequence? — Yes. I owed this Mr. Denis one and a half year’s rent the other day, and I had no means of paying him, and I could sell nothing in that fair for the last two years, and I went to him and I said, “ I cannot pay you.” I said, “ I wish to pay, and there is no one will buy anything'from me, and what am I to do ?” He said, “I do not know.” I said, “ Will you buy these three fields of oats,” and he said, “ I would like to help you. How much,” and I said, £6 an acre.” I said, “ Won’t you give me the same price as my neigh- bour got by auction, £6 an acre ? ” and he said, “ Advertise an auction, and I will buy it.” But there was no use m tnat. He did not propose to me again before we put it up, but the auctioneer made no appearance, and no man came to buy except one man who was a friend of my own. 27708. You were boycotted, I suppose, for something you did on the other side of the county ? — I will tell you. 27709. You live near Wicklow, I understand ? — Yes ; I just wrote it down. The first thing of all, my troubles was that the landlord of the property that I lived on was at law with the tenants, and the witnesses he had about the land beat the tenants. It was a dispute about the property. The tenants went to the witness and offered her ^50, and to leave it in the trustees’ hands, if she would swear what beat the landlord ; so I would not join them. Afterwards there were 24 feet of a house burned on me, with nearly all the farm implements I had in it. Then no one would make cars for me or repair anything that was burned. 27710. What time was this? — It was in 1881 [343 [ 48 ] 2 77i i. So long ago as that ?— Yes. I had to go eight miles away to get work done, and they would come and try to prevent people; I had employed from working for me. So I saw I could not stop with the people ? they were so much changed, for not going with them in every way. I took a farm on the other side of the county, at Moneystown. When I was about taking the farm the priest came to me and tried to hinder me. When I would not be stopped by the priest, I was “ outlawed” altogether. 27712. That is the priest at Baltinglass? — No, where I am now. 27713. Mr. Neligan . — Was it the parish priest or the curate ? — The curate near Eadestown. 27714. Lord Milltown . — Did he interfere with you ? He came to prevent me from taking the farm that I am living on now. 27715. I thought you meant the one near Baltinglass ? — No; that is where I was reared. Since I took the farm the people would not sell or buy from me. Any one that would buy or sell would rather not, or would give it to me the same as if they were stealing, and I paying them over the price in a good many cases. At the present time I have to go a great distance with corn to get it ground. No one of any class would shoe my horses. There is a smith that works all his time for two gentlemen, Mr. Booth and Mr. Barton. . . . My family was almost in want of food only for a lady that sold us provisions when we could not get them for any money. The times is worse, according to my opinion, now with me, because I cannot pay my lawful debts with the state of the country. My pigs were put out of a fair fifteen miles away, where I had a man selling them. If I want to buy pigs or cattle I have to go where I will not be known. I sold nothing in fair or market these two years. Any stock I sold it was to gentlemen. Some of their stewards would not give me more than half price, so I am tired of selling to some of the stewards. I went twenty miles for a stallion horse with my mare, but when the owner knew who I was he would give me the horse no more. The auctioneer advertised an auction of oats and hay lor me in Eadestown in September, and he never come to the auction, or a word from him, and no buyer but a friend of mine. No man would work for me, and the crop would be lost only I went to the land- lord and he bought it. Only he did it, it was gone and I could not pay my rent. If I meet with a stranger looking for labour, and hire him, he would be only working until the first Sunday after hiring him. He would leave for mass and not return any more. When I and my family would be going to church, the Mass people would follow us along the road in mobs, cursing and shouting and name-calling. I was often afraid I would have to fire on them or they would murder me. They would stop at my passing them. It is very hard to stand them. I was a few months ago driving my two horses and cars sixteen miles from home when a mob 344 ] [ 49 ] gathered with horns blowing inside the ditches, and done their best to make my horses run away. I drove them seventeen miles with the noise of the mob. I could not stop them with the horns blowing, and I had to drive them twenty-one miles without feeding them. I could talk for a month. Anything that is there I can prove it. There could be a book wrote on my life. 27716. They are as bad as ever? — The mob is not following me the same as they used to do. 27717. The labourers won’t work for you? — No. I have seen them starving with the hunger, and they would only work until Saturday night, and then they would go to mass at the chapel and I would never see them any more. There are cases often happening, and they left their clothes on the loft where they slept, and did not even come back for them. 27718. You think they would be afraid to go back? — They would be hindered. They would be intimidated. I am sure they were satisfied to work with me. 27719. And they were starving poor men? — Yes. 27720. And were not allowed to earn an honest crust ? — No. The last man I hired, he came to me. He lived within two and a half miles of the place. He came to me and said, “Do you want a man ? ” I said, “ There is no use hiring a man.” He said, “ If you give me work I’ll work for you.” I said, “What do you want a week?” “Five shillings.” “ I’ll give it to you ; come on Monday morning.” He did come, and he worked until Saturday night. He got his 5s., and he liked the place. He left all his •clothes in the loft, and I never saw him afterwards. 27721. Mr. Neligan. — How long ago? — About eight weeks. 27722. Was he a stranger ? No, he was not. One of the policemen knew him. He was from Rattren. His wife came during the week, and she said she heard he would be murdered if he worked for me. And the man was hungry, or something like that, and he worked for me that week. 27723. Lord Milltown . — Do you think they are afraid of being beaten •or injured in some way? — I will give you my oath of it. 27724. Has anyone ever been injured on your side of the county in that way ? — If I hadn’t six police minding me. 27725. You are under police protection? — Yes. I had only four until lately, and then they put two more. I come here with two policemen. I have them minding me. 27726. Do you think you are really in danger of your life ? — Yes. 27727. Have you received threatening letters ? — I am sure I have. If I E [345. L 50 ] went into Wicklow and bought £2 worth in every shop, that would be in the newspapers, and the shopkeepers did not like that. 27728. It is put in the newspapers? — Yes. There is a man named Stow in Wicklow, and I have a big family, and paid him a good deal, and I happened to be there myself about a month ago, and he said, “ Do you see anything about you in the newspapers ? ” I said, “ I did, and I see all about you too.” He said, “ Could you not get it from Dublin what you want V I said, “ Are you afraid to sell to me ? ” He said they would starve him out of the place, and I said, “ I will not come to you any more.” 27729. Still the poor man was not so much to blame. You think you should have your life and property protected — that it should be some one’s duty to prevent such a state of things ; but you cannot blame the poor man who refuses to sell because he is afraid? — Yes, he is afraid. I will tell you about the increase of the protection. When I went to prayers on Sunday there were two Roman Catholic men escorted me to the church. The sergeant was one ; and he said to me, “ Derrylossery is the church ; there is a chapel in Roundwood.” The sergeant said to me, u The church will be a few minutes earlier than second Mass ; ” and he said, “ Don’t stir until I come back ; I have something to tell you.” This was sometime in July. I had not many minutes to wait. He told me nothing going home, but the next day he said — there were then four police- men — “ the police,” he says, “ were to be murdered at the Road, and your house is to be burned. Would you have any objection to allow us on the stable loft ?” I said I would allow them inside before they were murdered. I heard no more then. He said “We cannot do anything until we get word from the officer.” So two men came from Tinahely. They were not even allowed to wait for their boxes. They had to go back again, and they got two fresh men from the depot. There are six men from that to this. 27730. I suppose the National League is pretty strong in your neighbour- hood ? — I hear it is. According to the newspaper it is. I never had anything to do with it, and never will, please God. 27731. Who caused you to be boycotted ? — Only the National League, and the priests and the people. 27732. That is what I was asking you? — Yes. 27733. The National League must be pretty strong ? — There is National League everywhere. Is not that what ails me. I cannot pay my lawful debts, and I have plenty of means. I did not sell a beast these two years. There must be something done. It must either be stopped or let go ahead. Something must be done. Times cannot go on this way. I am willing ta pay my debts, and I have property there, and I dare not drive it to the fair. I had to go twenty miles the other day to buy pigs, on my solemn, oath. 346 ] [ 51 ] 27734- Are there many other people besides yourself boycotted in the county, do you know ? — Well, I do not think there is any one near me. They are all nearly one class — the Protestant men and the Roman men. 27735. Do you mean that they are nearly all National Leaguers ? — Yes. If they are not National Leaguers they pay money to the National League. I read it in the newspapers, that is all I know about them. I owe a year’s rent, and I have no means of making a shilling of it. There is the butter of seven cows, and only I have two persons who buy it I could not sell it. I have more cattle than I want, and I would pay the rent. 27736. You would pay if you could ? — Yes. 27737. But this conspiracy does not allow you to sell your goods ? — That is it. There must be an end put to this in some way. I would not at this minute, if I gave ^10 for it, get a shoe put upon my mare. They would not do it for^io. 27738. Is that because the smith would be afraid to shoe her ? — Yes. 27739. He is afraid ? — Yes. Upon this 56 acres of land I can get all the smith work done with Mr. Booth and Mr. Barton, who have a smith who works three days a week for each of them. But I did not want to be troublesome, and I went to a couple of Protestant men — I sent my son to one, and I went myself to another— and neither of thenfi would work for me. They said they were afraid to work for me. I will tell you what happened to me. I have ten children. There is a man named Saul in the town of Rathdrum. He sells me everything I want. He is a rich man. I pay ready cash. God Almighty afflicted him with brain fever. He was bad for seven or eight weeks. His shop went a little to the bad ; it was not minded right. I wanted flour in the house. They had every- thing in Saul’s but flour. I went to Rathdrum, and I got none. I went to a mill there, and I could not get it. I went to the baker for a couple of shillings’ worth of bread, and I could not get it. That is hard, with the ready cash to put down for it. 27740. Mr. Neligan. — Who is your landlord ?— A gentleman named Dentin — an English gentleman. 27741. Who is the agent? — Mr. Maurice Bailey. It is a very hard case, and I could stay here for a week telling you about it. 27742. Lord Milltown. — This system of tyranny, begun in 1881, is going on still ? — It is worse than ever since I took this farm a year and a half ago. o- [347 [ 52 ] HEX. THE LEAGUE TERRORISM— NO EVIDENCE AND NO CONVICTIONS. IF YOU TELL THE POLICE YOU WILL BE SHOT. 17901. [Mr. S. M. HUSSEY, Kerry.] — You have already told us that the Land League is not decreasing ? — The Land League is not decreasing in power now, not in my opinion. 17902. The outrages have not been so great in this part of the country. Have they been as great? — It is really very hard to say, because the people that are outraged are afraid to say a word about it. If there is a small outrage perpetrated, such as the firing into a house, or a beating, or things of that kind, when the moonlighters go away, they say, “ If you “tell this to the police, we will go back and shoot you the next night.” NOT ONE-FIFTII OF THE OUTRAGES ARE PUBLISHED. 17903. [Mr. S. M. Hussey, Kerry]. — I gather from that, large numbers of outrages are perpetrated of which no publication is made ? — I think there are not one-fifth of the outrages in this county disclosed. 17904. Of course there cannot be very severe outrages? — Of course not, because if a man is murdered it is certain to be discovered, or if a man is seriously wounded he has to go to hospital, or if his house is burned, or that sort of thing, it obtains publicity. 17905. But the simple fact of firing into a house, or beating a man with sticks, or that kind of thing, would not obtain publicity. Do you think the police discover the men who are at the bottom of those crimes ? — No ; they do not give sufficient rewards. 17906. Mr. Neligan. — When you say “ they/’ who do you mean ? — The police 17907. And your opinion is that until outrages are put a stop to rent will not be paid ? — No, nor any debt. 0 348 ] [ 53 ] THE PEOPLE DON’T LIKE TO GIVE ANY INFORMATION. 17279. [Mr. James Sullivan, Kerry.] — And not trusting to the police ? — The police are no use at all. I have seen shots fired within hearing of the police, and they did nothing. 17280. But suppose the police knew the men th it committed these outrages, do you think they would get any evidence from the people ? — The people would be very reluctant. 17281. So there is no use in arresting a man? — The people don’t like to give any information. 17282. Mr. Neligan. — Would not the respectable classes in the country be glad to see the country returning to law and order ? — They would. 17283. Lord MilUown. — I don’t see how that is to be done unless the people assist in putting down outrages? — It is the young fellows who do it. No sensible man takes any part in it. 17284. But in other countries sensible men would put down that them- selves. They would not allow these young blackguards to carry on these games. Do you see any chance of the people looking on the law as their friend instead of their oppressor, and putting a stop to this kind of work? — Within the last month or two there were not many outrages in the country. Things are a great deal better. 0 GIVING INFORMATION ENDANGERS LIFE. 17613. [Anonymous.]— What can theydo? — What can they do? If a man were to give information to the police, his life would be in danger. There are a couple of districts, and if a few were taken out, the districts would be quiet. 17614. The police cannot do anything if the people won’t help? — I think so. 17615. It is entirely in the hands of the people themselves ? — I think so. THE PEOPLE ARE GETTING TIRED OF THIS LA W LESS NESS. 17616, [Anonymous.] — You don’t think there is much sympathy among the people with these fellows ? — No. We know them well, and think very little of a fellow who keeps their company. [349 [ 54 ] 17617. Is it pretty much the same class as are called “ corner boys ” in big towns ? — Something like that ; they sympathise with each other. 17618. I suppose you would like to see the time come when every man can do what was right without asking another man's leave ? — Decidedly. 17619. I dare say the people are got very tired of this kind of lawless- ness ? — They are. 17620. It must interfere greatly with business ? — Very much so. 1 7621. And accounts to a certain extent for the people being badly off? — It does. •O' NO JURY IN THE COUNTRY PARTS WOULD CONVICT. 18571. [Mr. J. Hamilton, O.C., Recorder of Cork.] — I would like very much to know if you had any experience of boycotting in this county ? — Yes, sir, I have. 18572. Is there any power in the law in any way to interfere to stop boycotting ? — It is practically almost impossible, it is so cleverly done. 18573. Are the police whose business it is to look after these things in a position to give evidence, to show r who it is that brings about this system of boycotting ? — If there is evidence of a conspiracy, no doubt the magis- trates would send the case for trial, but no jury in the country parts of Ireland would convict. That is one of the difficulties of the position. 18574. Even if the evidence is not withheld the juries will not convict ? — The juries will not convict. In Donegal or Mayo, or Galway, in an agrarian case you will have men in the jury box who sympathise with the criminals, and as to the rest of the jury it would be as much as their lives are worth possibly if they were for conviction. 18575. Is it possible for the country to right itself until this system of boycotting is put down ? — I think a firm and steady Government would right it. I think the people are getting better already, and seeing that the wild hopes which were encouraged by the agitators cannot be realised, they are getting more amenable. There is no people, if you are firm and generous, more easily governed. 18576. Then I understand from your evidence that though the evidence can be got, the juries will not convict? — I say that, decidedly, unless you eliminate a certain class from them. 350 ] [ *5 ] THE DETERMINATION NOT TO CONVICT THE CRUX OF THE WHOLE MATTER. 18577. [Mr. J. Hamilton, Q.C., Recorder of Cork.] — The determination of the juries not to convict is really the crux of the whole matter ? — Exactly, and it is one of our greatest misfortunes that the English people will not recognise that that is so. 18578. The President. — Well, it would be very desirable that we should hear the opinion of a gentleman who is so intimately connected with the ad- ministration of the law as to what method he would suggest by which this difficulty is to be possibly overcome ? — Well, I think the people themselves are beginning to take a more rational view of things, and I think they are getting tired of the tyranny of the Land League. 18602. The President. — But was not there boycotting during the time the Crimes Act was in operation ? — I think so, but it was sure of punish- ment. 18603. But it still existed ? — It still existed. It is very hard to get at it. 18604. Lord Milltown. — That is the difficulty of getting evidence ? — Yes. 18605. But now, even if you get the evidence, it is impossible to get convictions ? — That is so. o “ EVERYBODY WOULD SAY THEY DID NOTHING TO HIM : 1 21452. [District Inspector Davis, Kerry.] — In fact they boycott the sale ? — They boycott the sale. 21453. And the law cannot reach them in the way ? — No. 21454. As a matter of fact it does not reach them ? — Oh, no. 21455. The President. — Has there been boycotting of men in the case of refusing to shoe their horses ? — Yes. There have not been so many cases of that kind. What they generally say is, “ I won’t be able to do it to-day, but if you send them in to-night I will do it.” So that it is afraid they are, not but they are willing themselves to earn the money. 21456. Lord Milltown. — Can you define open boycotting that you can successfully prosecute ? — If a man orders another’s servants to go away he can be prosecuted. There have been no such cases as that ; but there is a very large farmer, named Peat, near Tralee, and some time ago he took a grazing farm for six months. He was denounced at the League at [351 [ 50 ] Ballymacelligot as a land grabber, and all his servants left him, every one of them ; and he has since been supplied by the Cork Union. 21457. And you cannot proceed against anybody ? — No, because every person would say that they did nothing to him. 21458. But wasn’t he denounced? — It was in the League. 21459. You cannot get any evidence of that ? — No, because these places are closed completely to us. We have no permission to enter these places, and we know nothing but what is in the papers. 21460. If you had permission, then you would be able to obtain evi- dence ? — Certainly. THE PEOPLE DARE EOT HELP THE POLICE. 21556. [District Inspector Davis, Kerry.] — Do you think that the purchase of their holdings by the tenants of the district would tend to the preservation of law and order? — I believe it would. 21557. And that it would cause the people to be anxious for its preser- vation for their own sake ? — Yes, and they would become conservative. 21558. That is my own opinion too? - If that were so, they would organise to put down outrages themselves, and until they organise for that purpose it will be very difficult, and almost impossible, to put down outrages — all but impossible, because the police are perfectly powerless. 21559. At present, I suppose, they give little or no assistance to the police? — They would if they could. 21560. They dare not? — They dare not. 21561. In fact it would be as much as their lives would be worth ? — Yes. There was a man fired at some few months ago, and I believe the man knew who did it, and a certain member of his family knew him, and when he was about telling the police, one of the sons said — I heard him say — “Do you want to drive us out of the country ?” They never told us. 21562. You mean by giving information ? — Yes. 21563. Sir James Caird. — The son of the man who was wounded said that ? — Yes. FIFTY PERSONS AT LEAST UNDER PROTECTION IN KERRY. 21564. [District Inspector Davis, Kerry.] — The President . — Are there many people in your district under police protection now ? — There are. 352 ] [ 57 ] 21565. What is the number, could you tell us? — I could have it in the morning, if you wish. 21566. Mr. Neligan — Oh, in round numbers. Are there 10 or 20? — Oh, there are 40 or 50 or more ; some under constant protection, and more protected by patrols. 21567. The President. — And is that more than it was two years ago? — - Well, since about three years ago they rose steadily. 21568. And it is as great as ever it was ? — There have been very few reductions. 21569. Lord Milltown. — What class of persons are they? — Well, Mr. Hussey’s place, in the district of Ederburn— the place where the dynamite explosion was. 21570. I know; but to what class do these people belong? — To the farming class. 21 571. And what is their offence? — Well, for having taken evicted farms, and there are bailiffs on different properties under protection. 21572. The P?’esident. — And if these people were left unprotected they might be murdered to-morrow ? — Well, some unquestionably would be murdered ; but there are others, I think, would not, and these are not con- stantly protected. They are only protected by patrols at night. MURDER WITH IMPUNITY UNLESS WITNESSED B Y POLICE. 21573. [District Inspector Davis, Kerry.] — Lord Milltown . — Some certainly would be murdered ; others would only run a fair chance of it ? — That’s the way to put it. 21574. The President . — And it may be partly owing to the number of people under police protection that outrages have not been very frequent ? — Yes ; because the police are so scattered over the country that it is more difficult to commit outrages. 21578. Is it your opinion that murder could be committed in your district with absolute impunity, unless it should happen to be witnessed by a mem- ber of the constabulary ? — I say so. 21579. And even then there would still be the chance of a trial before a jury subject more or less to intimidation ? — Certainly so. [353 [ 58 ] 21580. The. President . — From your general knowledge of other parts of Ire- land, at all events of that neighbourhood, do you think Castleisland the worst -district in Ireland at this moment, or that there are other places equally bad? — Well, it is in a very bad condition, and I think there are very few places in Ireland, perhaps, worse. The Tralee district has become noto- rious recently ; perhaps it is worse than Castleisland, and Listowel has now become bad. It had not been at all during the Land League. Also Killarney ; there have been a great many outrages there recently — very serious ones. 354 ] [ 59 ] I^7\ SOME POINTS ABOUT MOONLIGHTING. 1340. [Mr. Heffernan F. Considine, R.M., Kerry.] — The President . — I think you are now quartered in Kerry? — Yes. 1341. How long have you been there? — Rather more than four years. 1360. Have there been a great many outrages in your part of the country? — Yes, a great many indeed. 1361. Moonlighting ? — Yes, moonlighting to a very large extent. 1362. Is that chiefly directed towards people who have taken evicted farms ? — No, I don’t think it is confined to those who take evicted farms. They visit any houses where they think they can get arms, whether the man is popular or otherwise. 1363. The outrages are chiefly in raids for arms, and not connected with land? — Indirectly they are ; but no person does, as a matter of fact, take an evicted farm, and therefore there is no necessity for things of the kind. 1364. They have established such complete control that no one dares go against them? — That is so. I know of only one case in which an evicted farm was taken by an individual — a man called Culloty, in the Castleisland district. He has six policemen to protect him, and I am perfectly certain his life would not be safe but for the protection. 0 - 16505. [General Buller, Kerry.] — The President. — Are those moonlighting outrages connected immediately with the question of rents, or anything of that kind ? — They were certainly. I do not think they are so much now. [355 [ 60 ] 16506. What is the object now ; of course the immediate object is to get possession of arms ? — Well there are a lot of idle fellows in the country, who have nothing to do, and with very little labour, they have not much chance of being employed. I think that they have got into the habit of taking part in these outrages. But they are decreasing in number of late. A good many of them are going to prison, and a good many of them are going to America. A good many of them have gone away within the last month. 16507. Then it is no longer an agreement among them with regard to the question of preventing the payment of rent, or preventing purchase or anything connected with the subject of our inquiry ? — It is less con- stantly so. There is still intimidation rampant in the country, but the hands who effect that intimidation also do a little robbery or outrage on their own account. 16508. Lord Milltown . — But I suppose they help to support the authority of the League by those midnight raids ? — Oh, yes, they do. 16509. Mr. NeligaJi . — And by boycotting. - 0 - 1417. [Mr, Hefferxax F. Coxsidixe, R.M., Kerry.] — I want to ask you one question more about moonlighters — is it your experience there is any sympathy amongst the people with these brigands ? — Yes. 1418. Considerable? — Yes, I think a very widespread sympathy of an undefined character. 1419. Chiefly because their acts are lawless? — No, I think they have it in their mind that moonlighting helps them to withstand the landlord. 1420. How do they come to that conclusion ? — It is a kind of undefined idea. 1421. I understand that the moonlighting is simply robberies of arms ? — That is at the present moment, but sometime ago moonlighting was altogether directed against tenants who paid rent. I am talking of the present moment, but in 1881, 1882 and part of 1883, moonlighting was directed almost entirely against those who paid rents. 1422. That was the object, and now it has degenerated into a means of getting weapons, by which people offending can be more effectually punished? — I don’t know with certainty what their idea is in getting arms. 356 ] [ 61 ] 1423. Have you formed any idea of their object? — I think they have a vague idea that, at some future time, there will be occasion to use these arms for the vindication of their national aspirations — but it is purely an opinion. 1446. Lord Milltown. — Then I suppose on the whole you would be of opinion that the prevalence of these moonlighting bands adds greatly to the power and authority of the league in your district ? — Yes. 1447. Mr. Neligan. — In point of fact adds sanction to their orders ? — Yes. I should not wish to be taken as saying that the league itself en- gages in the outrages, but this outer association take upon themselves to vindicate or carry out 1448. Lord Milltown. — The unwritten law ? — Yes. 1449. Th z. President. — I suppose it would be the game of the league at present to put down outrages? — Yes, I think they would desire to do so. 1450. Only these have got out of their hands? — Yes. In my judgment, for the last twelve months or more, the central league have been doing their utmost to stop these outrages, but I think it has gone outside their power to do so. 1451. Mr .Neligan. — Are outrages still continuing in your district ? — Yes. 1452. Up to recently? — Yes, quite lately we had a case of moonlighting within less than a mile of Tralee — on last Monday morning. 1453. It was not long ago since you had a case of moonlighting in the town itself, close to the barrack ? — Yes. 1454. With seventy men in it? — Yes. 1455. Do you find it difficult to obtain evidence in these cases? — Quite impossible ; we cannot get evidence. 1456. Is that from the nature of the case, or the disinclination of the people to give information ? — There is a disinclination on the part of the people to give information of any kind. 1457. There was an occurrence in daylight— an attack on a house in your district in the open day, and the police gave chase across the river ? — That was in the Killarney district. I think I know the case you refer to ; it was on the nth August. [357 [ 62 ] "V - - THE COURTS OF THE PERIOD. 18368. [Mr. Maurice Leonard, Kerry.] — As I understand in 1885 and 1886, in the last two years — in one year there were 17 evic- tions, and in the other 26. In all cases one half year’s rent was paid, and the men were put back? — Yes ; and the reason I had to bring so many evictions in 1886 was that on this property, there are eight National League courts, and they sat from October 1885 to April 1886. There is one in Killarney, one at Fieries, there is one at Ballyhar, one at Kil- cummin, one at Headford, one at Grievequillea, and one at Rathmore* These courts sat regularly ever}' Sunday. 18369. Land League courts? — Yes; from the latter end of October until April they tried tenants regularly. They tried tenants there for having paid their rents without a percentage and without the sanction of the local branch. On each Sunday a smith’s son used to openly leave here in the morning to attend that court and sit as judge. He sat as a chief judge. 18370. Who is the smith? — Michael Healy, of Hen Street ; he used to- go openly and sit as the appeal judge over the court. 18371. In what court did he preside ? — He used to go round. He was a kind of judge going round the whole of them on successive Sundays. 18372. On Sunday? — Yes, each court had its own chairman. In Fieries Father O’Connor was the chairman, and in Ballyhar Father O’Connor. 18373. Was that the gentleman in whose parish the Curtins were mur- dered? — Yes, he was president at Ballyhar branch. David Healy was the president of the Kilcummin one, and I forget the man who was presi- dent of the Barrowduff court. 18374. Mr. Neligan — You need not give us any further names. Up to what time did the judicial function continue to be exercised ? Up to abou the end of April. 358 ] [ 03 ] 1 ^ 375 - Of last April? — Yes, up to the end of last April. 18376. And then it ceased? — Yes, then it ceased. 18377. For what reason? — These courts advised Lord Kenmare’s- tenants not to pay unless they got 30 per cent, reduction on the rent. The trustees decided only to give the yearly tenants 25 per cent., and gave directions that the other tenants were to be made pay who could pay, and proceedings had to be taken against them, and in some cases men’s cows were seized, and in the case of Ulick Sullivan, of Dromore, his cows had to be seized three times, he having previously lodged his rent with Father O’Connor, in the Fieries League. 18388. The President . — I think we have had plenty of test cases, and I suppose there are a good many more ? — There are about 20. 18389 Mr Neligan . — I suppose you may take those as typical cases of the same kind ? — Yes. 18390. The President . — Of the same kind ? — Yes. May I refer y m to the different meetings of the Land League courts which were published in the papers at the time ? 18391. Cases of tenants summoned? — Yes. •0 203 17. [Captain R. T. Rye.] — W hat is the nearest town to this place which you refer to ? — The nearest big town is Cork, it is near Macroom and Bandon too. 20318. What branches? — The Kilmurry and the Farren branches. I believe the police are about to prosecute this very Land League for hold- ing a court on a large tenant of mine. He was a very active member of the Land League, and he was charged with having paid his rent to me, and the Land League found great fault with him, and also for having done something for a boycotted man a tenant of Sir Augustus Warren. They held a court on him, and he was expelled from the League, and he wants me now to forgive him his rent as he cannot pay it. 20319. You said that they were talking about instituting a prosecution against the League for holding a court ; have they done so yet ? — No, but I am sending up a letter now to the Chief Secretary telling him all about the activity of the League in my district, but the police say they cannot get this man to swear an information. [35f> [ 64 ] 20320. Well, if he will not swear an information, what can the Chief Secretary do ? — Well, the man acknowledges in his letter to me having been censured by the Land League for having paid his rent to me, and also for having spoken to Mr. Kingston, a tenant living near Kilmurry, who was boycotted, and that he was expelled from the League. I can give you another now, a case of a tenant of mine some years ago. A large tenant. Do you wish to have names? 27477. Just use your own discretion. — This evidence will appear in public. 27478. Sir James Caird . — We do not care about names : — This man bought the interest of a farm on my estate of which the previous tenant, through drink and extravagance of different kinds, had not made good use ; and he took peaceable possession of his farm seven or eight years ago, and held it peaceably until about two years ago. 27479. The President . — And he did actually pay money to the outgoing tenant? — Yes he paid money to the outgoing tenant, besides a large arrear of rent, and he also went security for this man to the bank and took up a bill ; and he held peaceable possession till two years ago, when this system of boycotting began, and several similar cases were brought before the local branches of our National League in the County Limerick, and in our county, and in one or two cases the tenants had to refund money to the men who had previously held the farms, since the League decided that they had not received sufficient when they left, and that the present tenant was what was called a land-grabber. This case was brought before the local branch of the National League at Ballyclough, County Cork, near Mallow, and both parties were summoned to attend ; and it was decided that the tenant, a most respectable man, was to pay a large sum of money to the man who had peaceably given up possession of the farm five or six years before. He refused to do it, and he was severely boycotted. Ultimately, the parish priest referred the case to the head branch of the National League, who found my tenant had been very hardly treated, and the head branch of the National League in Dublin decided that, as this case was of such longstanding, and as my tenant had bought the interest in the farm before the land Act was in existence, it was too far back for the League to go, and they sent down to the local branch of the National League at Ballyclough that they must let the case drop. They refused to do that at first, and the head branch of the National League in Dublin then dispersed the local League, and for some time the local branch of the National League was not in existence. It has since been resuscitated. 27480. What was the date of the dispersing of the local branch ? — I can give it to you. Up to October 1885 the tenant held peaceable pos- session, and it was immediately after that. 360 ] L 05 ] 27481. It began again in 1885 ?— It has begun again now ; the local branch has been started again this year. 27482. It was in 1885 it was dissolved ? — Quite so. 27483. And this year it has been started again ? — Yes. 27484. And has the man again been boycotted ? — He has been threatened. He has not actually been boycotted, but he has been threatened with boycotting, and he is afraid to pay his rent. 27485. It looks as if there was not great control by the head branch in Dublin over the local branch of the League ? — I think it shows very con- siderable control when they dissolved the local branch altogether. 27486. And then it restarted itself? — Well, it has only just started again. There was a meeting held the other day for the purpose of pre- venting my tenants paying their rents, and it was got up by the local branch. There was one other case of boycotting that I wished to bring before you, and that was the case of a gamekeeper who was looking after a property of which I had taken the shooting, and because he prosecuted poachers he was assaulted, moonlighted, brutally assaulted, and very severely boycotted — in fact, could not get the ordinary necessaries of life. 27487. Was this done by command of the local branch of the National League ? — This was done by the National League. It is not the same place. 27488. They interfered with the poaching, too ? —Ob, yes ; if a man makes himself obnoxious in any way now. He could not even sell his cows in the fair or get provisions for his family ; and this summer the unfortunate man was almost starving. He came to me, and he asked me if I could help him to sell his cows ; that he was afraid to bring his cows into the fair. 27489. He was paid partly by having a holding ? — He had a small holding. 27490. That was part of his pay as gamekeeper? — Yes ; he was only what we call a mountain keeper. I told him if he brought the cow over to me after dark the night before the fair, I would take it in as one of my own cows to the fair and sell it for him, which I did, or rather my man did. I should have added in the first case I gave you — perhaps it will be necessary — that this bog-bailiff was very severely boycotted ever since and cannot get provisions in the neighbourhood, and he is under police protection, and the Government put up a police hut, otherwise his life would not be worth a day’s purchase. I have a pamphlet here of boy- cotting cases. I might hand it in as evidence if you have not already got it. It is prepared by the Cork Defence Union, of which I am a member. F 361 t 66 ] ^TI- THE INTERFERENCE WITH PURCHASE. [Mr. J. H. Franks, Agent in Dublin, Wexford, and West- meath.] The Act of 1 88 1 has put the tenants in such a position that few of them care for the idea of becoming purchasers, except they are tempted to it by the prospect of a large present reduction. Everything tends to show the tenant now he is master of the market, and they are advised to wait. I have had personal experience of tenants refusing to buy on any terms. They have said to me they fear future taxation. That n bad years they can squeeze the landlord, and landlords will give them abatements, where a State Department must enforce instalments, no matter what happens. The National party and United Ireland have been pointing out that it is better to combine for a 25 per cent, reduction and to hold themselves free, than to purchase for even a price which gives them a clear 25 per cent, reduction. 1097. [Mr. E. B. Warburton,R.M., Commissioner, Bantry.] What effect do you think would it have on the condition of the country if the tenants were induced to purchase their holdings ? — I believe every man once he became owner of his own holding would have more interest in the country, and anything that could be done to induce the tenants to come forward more and take advantage of the Act would be a benefit — a great many would if they were not prevented by the National League — if they were not afraid of the League, for they are told by the League not to do it. 1 1 3 1. Sir James Caird . — You said it would be very good for the country if the tenants to a large extent became landlords of their holdings ? — Yes. 362] [ 67 ] 1132. And as I understand you, the influence of the League was very unfavourable to that ? — Yes. 1 1 33. Do they exercise it in any very open manner? — I could not say that exactly, but I know the general impression every place is that only for the League the tenants would come in and purchase. Latterly a good many have purchased and are negotiating for the purchase of their holdings. 1134. You think the tenants themselves, if they were not under com- pulsion, would very readily accept this proposal to become owners ? — Yes, I think they would. 0 - 1371. [Mr. H. F. CONSIDINE,R.M., Kerry.] — Then the opera- tions of the League in your district tend to prevent tenants buying ? — Yes, they tend to prevent freedom of contract on the part of the tenant. I think if it was not for the manner in which they have cried down the Act, we would in all probability have had a larger amount of sales than we have had. 1407. Then you say that the League interferes with the tenant’s pur- chasing by crying down the Act considerably ? — Yes. 1408. That is so ? — Yes. 1504. Are they desirous of putting down boycotting? — No, they advo- cate boycotting. 1506. Do they show any disposition to do away with boycotting ? — No, it is one of their strongest measures. 0 - 2694. [Mr. C. U. TOWNSHEND, Dublin.] — Considering it has only been passed one year, Lord Ashbourne’s Act seems to have been very successful? — It has been, but your lordship will observe, if you had the returns, that it is chiefly in the North that it has been successful. The Northerners were the first to go in under the Land Act of 1881, and they have largely availed themselves — of course I do not know the actual figures — but they have largely availed themselves in the North of the purchase clauses, and I believe are willing to do so more largely still ; [363 [ 08 ] but in the South it would extend, and if the League permitted, I am satisfied that a large number would become purchasers. 2695. You think they are prevented by the League? — I know it. When resolutions such as these are passed and published in the papers it puts the tenants in a difficulty about purchasing. I will just read the whole resolution : “ The following resolutions were unanimously adopted — Proposed by Mr. O’Neill, seconded by Mr. Martin Byrne, that should any landlord in this parish notify to tenants his willingness to sell under the lately passed Purchase Act, we call upon such tenants not to come to any agreement without first consulting his brother tenants on the property, and coming to a mutual agreement on the amount they are to offer” — that is all right — “and before offering which they are to have the sanction of this branch.” 2696. Sir James Caird. — What date is that? — That is October ioth t 1885. 2697. Lord Milltown. — What was the locality ? — Enniscorthy. This is the Askamore National League. 2746. Is there pressure in the South, in any parts, put upon tenants not to sell their rights ? — Yes, I have had cases in which I have arranged with the tenant to offer the interest by auction, and the local Land League when they saw the bills out called a meeting, and the auction was stopped and no sale could be had. 2747. And if the tenant-right is sold, even with the consent of the tenant, is the new man considered in the light of a land grabber and intruder ? — Ordinarily not ; not if it is permitted to go on. 2748. But they do try to stop men from selling? — Oh, yes. •0 3622. [Mr. Toler R. Garvey, King’s County.] — Suppose for the sake of argument, that sale could be made compulsory on the demand of either party after a fair period, would that meet the opposition of the League, and break it down ? — I suppose it would, to a certain extent. 7251. [Mr. R. W. Lowry, Omagh.] — That was a proposal to sell under the provisions of the Act of 1881 ? — Yes. 364] [ 69 ] 7252. You say that this arrangement was progressing when the Land League interfered, and told them not to give twenty- four years purchase ? • — Gave them the order not to buy. 11132. [Mr. Thomas Small, Agent to Norton Estate.] — The President — There is no combination? — There is a branch of the National League on the estate. 1 1 133. What is their line of conduct ? — What do they do ?— They forbid the tenant to purchase an evicted farm, or to rent it, or to have anything to do with it whatever. 1 1 134. And the tenants obey their injunctions ? — They do. ■0 12198. [Mr. Joseph Hardy, Galway.] — What is the state of feeling in your part of the country ? Is there any combination or intimidation ? — There is and has been, and there is at present. I think a great many of the small tenants would take advantage of the land pur- chase clauses if they were not prevented from doing so. 12218. The Land League set themselves right against it ? — Yes, and all their directions and instructions are directly opposed to that. 1 22 1 9. So that, in fact, compulsory purchase at a fair price would be a blow delivered against the League ? — The strongest. Every acre that is sold, and makes the tenant owner, is so much taken from the power of the League. The tenant is then a free man. The shackles have fallen off him. Three years will not lapse over that man’s head until he is a loyal subject of the Crown. That is my opinion. 14945. — [Mr. Richard Stackpoole, Clare.]—' The President. — Have you thought of Lord Ashbourne’s Act in any way ? — I have made inquiries of all the tenants I have to know if they would purchase under it; but they are not allowed. I think that is the way. [365 [ 70 ] 14946. Not allowed by the League?— Not allowed by the League. 14947. Otherwise do you think they would ? — I think they would. In two ways they prevent them from availing of that Act. They tell them that the number of years’ purchase is too great, and that if they continue the agitation they will get better terms. 14948. Do you think that the landlords are willing to sell at fair prices ? — I think they would. I know I should be happy to sell every place that is not in my own occupation. 14949. What price do you think would be fair? — I think twenty years’ purchase on the net rental. 14950. That is about 17 per cent, on the gross? — I should say yes. You know you cannot sell what you are not getting. It should be varied in every union, because the rates vary. In some unions my rates would be only 2s.,inthe Ennis Union they are 3s. 6d. at the very least. I speak for myself. I should be very glad to get that price. 1495 1. You think that if the tenants were not interfered with they would be willing to buy at that rate ? — I think they should, because if they cal- culate it they would see that they would be better off. 15 142. [Mr. J. B. HEWSON, Limerick.] — You mean that the sale of tenant right has ceased ? — Ceased. They are not allowed to sell. They do not want to have the value of the land fixed by public competi- tion in any kind of way. 1 5 143. Sir James Caird . — Do you mean the tenants or the League ? — The League. The only tenants that are inclined to sell are men who are in difficulties. The League wishes to keep those men on their land. They wish to keep as many people as they can that are in difficulties in possession of their farms. 1 5 144. The President . — Have you ever thought of compulsory purchase from the landlords’ point of view, that it might be the means of breaking the power of the League? — Well, I think it might. I think myself at present that the tenants are not inclined to buy. In every townland I find that there are some tenants in very needy, bad circumstances, and these men at present are not paying their rents, and they are afraid to face the payment of instalments to the Government in any kind of way. They are afraid to bind themselves, because they say, “ The landlord does not wish or is afraid to turn us out, but if we once got under the Govern- 366] [ 71 ] ment they won’t be afraid to turn us out,” and they try to keep other tenants from agreeing to it. I also find that there has been a certain number of years’ purchase fixed by the Land League. o 15768. [Mr. J. Townsend Trench, J.P., Kerry.] — Mr. Neligan. — For instance, could a man under eviction sell? — He could, if he were free to do so, and if he was not interfered with. 15769. Sir James Caird. — Who interferes with him? — Oh, the Land League, in the most decided way. 15770. So as to prevent him going away ? — No, but to prevent another man from coming in. 1 577 1. Well, I suppose that is much the same thing ; but why is the interest of the tenant himself not considered by the League ? — No ; they do not care a straw about the individual tenant. 15772. The President. — It never was the custom of the country in any way to sell here, was it ? — Yes, it was. 1 5773* P was? — Yes, the tenant had the right to sell. For the last quarter of a century, to my personal knowledge, that right has existed on Lord Lansdowne’s Kerry estate, subject to certain restrictions, to my knowledge, for over a quarter of a century. But the effort of the Land League has been to obstruct and to prevent anything that would accom- plish a satisfactory settlement between landlord and tenant wherever the landlord proceeds against the tenant. And, therefore, whenever a land- lord proceeds against a tenant every obstacle is thrown in the way by the Land League of effecting a sale, and the man who would buy it would know that he would come in under the frown of the Land League. 15774. The operation of the Act of 1881 has been very much retarded and made ineffectual by the Land League ? — Yes, I think so. Well, then there are other causes besides that which have operated. 15781. You do not think that the fact of its being legalised prevented the sale, the powers given under the Act of 1881, but that it was the Land League which caused the prevention of purchase ? — Quite so. 16396. You are against compulsion at a low price, and you are not sure that compulsion at a high price would ever be established ? — Yes. If law and order are restored in this country and rents enforced, purchase will go on like wildfire. [367 [ 72 ] 16397* You think it will? — Certainly. The reason that tenants are moving so slowly is the absolute breakdown of law, order, and honesty. 16398. And also the League, and these prevent tenants from purchas- ing ? — Yes, and from paying their rents too. 0 16402. [Mr. Geo. F. Trench, Kerry.] — Does this com- bination exist to any very great extent ? — I think it very largely exists against purchase, not against purchase in the abstract, but against pur- chase at anything like fair prices. 0- 16478. [General Buller, Kerry.] — And that they are prevented from paying their rents partly by terrorism and partly by real inability and poverty? — Yes, and partly by bad advice; ibis Uiiited Irelcuid scheme and that sort of thing. The three worst diotricts that I have got and which I really thought were settling down Mr. Dillon and other M.P.’s have just been preaching in and the excitement they nave created will I fear again disturb them. 16479. Mr. Neligan . — Then in your opinion these speeches that we are constantly seeing and reading, are producing a bad effect ? — They have paralysed if not stopped purchase certainly, and they have demoralised the districts that I thought were settling down. •o -• 16554. [Col. CROSBIE, Kerry.] — Have you any evidence you would like to give us about the Purchase Act of 1885, Lord Ashbourne’s Act ? — Well, if we were to have a little quiet in the country I am sure that that Act would work very well. 16555. You think that the tenants would be willing under those circum- stances to purchase ? — The tenants would be willing to buy, and the land- lords would be willing to sell. But we must first have some law and order in the country, and an end put to the anarchy that has prevailed 368] [ 73 ] 16556. I suppose the League stops the sales? — Yes, the League will not allow the Act to operate. 16557. But y 011 think that if law and order were established it would begin to work ? — Yes. 0 17373. [Mr. George Sandes, Kerry.] — Mr. Neligan. — Are we to understand that in order to buy that tenant right the leave of the local League had to be first obtained ? — For a long time I understand it was refused, and after some time, and some influence being used, they consented. There is also a report here in the paper of the 3rd April, to show the combination that was going on in regard to this by moonlight raids on the estate : — “On Sunday night, between 11 and 12 o’clock — ■” What date is that? The last Sunday in March. “ A large party of moonlighters visited a number of houses on the pro- perty of Lord Ormathwaite (of which Mr. George Sandes, J.P., Listowel, is agent). They were all armed with rifles to which bayonets were 4 fixed,’ and several of the gang, some 70 in number, were also armed with pistols and revolvers. On the most reliable authority— we give the fol- lowing account : — ‘About a quarter past eleven o’clock I retired to rest, ‘ and had been almost ten minutes in bed when there was a noise at the ‘ front door. Some seven respectably dressed persons entered. Their ‘faces were uncovered, and each of them had a rifle with a bayonet ‘ attached. Their “ captain” inquired if the September rent had been paid ‘to George Sandes, the agent, and the answer was in the negative. He ‘ asked if there were any fire-arms in the house, and a similar reply was ‘ given. The “ captain” then administered a form of oath, pledging the ‘ tenant not to pay the last September rent unless he got a reduction of 30 ‘per cent. To this the tenant had to comply, and the moonlighters ‘ quietly decamped.’ ” -0 18002. [Mr. SAMUEL Hussey, Kerry.] — The Land League is stopping sale ? — Yes, the Land League has stopped sale. When I was a grand juror at the last assizes there w r as a man came forward named Flaherty, and he sought compensation for the loss of his cattle, and he was asked on his oath if they were maliciously killed, and he swore he [369 [ 74 ] bought his farm on a Monday afternoon — that he bought it on a Tuesday and that his cattle were killed on the Wednesday, and that no reason was assigned for it. 18003. That was a sale from the landlord under Lord Ashbourne’s Act ? — Yes. 18004. They considered it evicted? — No, they wanted to stop sales. 18005. ^ was not the land of a tenant who had been evicted? — No, he bought his own land under the Act of 1885. 18006. He was the occupier of the land ? — Yes. 18007. And there was no reason except the stopping of the sale? — Yes. 18008. And do you think that purchase would break down the power of the League ? — Yes. 18009. And do you think that if the power of the League could be broken and put down, and that law and order was restored, that purchase would proceed of itself? — I think it would. l8oiort. Without any compulsion ? — Yes, although there may be more facilities for carrying it through, and with some slight modification, it would work without compulsion ; and in this county, as far as I can make out, the obstacle for sale is the difficulty of tenants coming to terms when no difficulties are made on the part of the landlord. 1801 1. Most of them would be glad to sell at a fair price ?— Certainly. 18012. Really, the chief reason for making purchase compulsory here is that it would break the power of the League ? — Yes, and it would give a class of people from which you could draw jurors and make public bodies. In enlarging local government powers, so far from benefiting the people of this country at present, without the purchase scheme, would result in taxation which would make the whole country bankrupt. 18687. [Mr. W. D. Webber, Cork.] — I now come to the desire on the side of the tenants to purchase. There was a general wish to purchase in 1885. Several tenants began to negotiate, among them two who offered to pay the whole purchase money, and who required no loan from the Government, but would pay the money down, and I may mention that they were in a certain sense representative men, for one held a large farm at £60 a year, and the other was a widow holding a small farm at £ 6 a year, and both of these had money of their own with which they were perfectly prepared to purchase. This twenty-years’ purchase 37o] [ 75 ] negotiations were stopped by the National League sending down Mr. Michael Davitt to caution the tenants against giving a fair price for the land, and in that way the sale was boycotted. There is no doubt that that sale would have been successful only that this step was taken and that Mr. Davitt came to Mitchelstown. Mr. Davitt made a speech in the usual terms on which he told the tenants to take care that they did not pay too high a price for their farms. From that time there has been no negotiations of any kind as to purchase. They are now afraid to speak about it or to act singly. They have spoken to that effect to my agent and solicitor. I would like to produce a notice bearing on this point, but I do not wish the names mentioned in it to be given. 18945. [Mr. Jeremiah Hegarty, J.P., Cork.] — Do you think the tenants in general are anxious to become purchasers ? — There are some few tenants who have a vague idea that in a short time they will get the land for nothing but the great body of the tenants are anxious to become peasant proprietors. Of course great exertions have been made by the National League to advise these tenants and prevent them from becoming purchasers. 79033- [Captain PLUNKETT, R.M., Cork.] — Lord Milltow?i . — As long as the League retains its present influence is the Purchase Act ever likely to have a fair chance of working ? — No ; I do not think so. I 95 33- [Mr. John E. Barrett, Cork.] — With regard to the Purchase Act what have you got to say ? — At the present moment I am engaged in a very important case under the Purchase Act. I was ap- pointed lately agent over an estate, on which there are 39 tenants. It is situate in the Barony of Bantry. The tenants owe two and a half year’s rent up to September, 1886. I was instructed by the owners to sell to [37i [ 76 ] these tenant?, and last Saturday week I met the whole of the tenants by previous arrangement, and I was directed to offer them, on getting a year’s rent in full, their respective farms at 18 years purchase. This, with a year and a half’s arrears, would bring down the purchase to i6| years. 19534. By that the landlord must have suffered a great loss of income ? — Of course. Well, I offered these terms, and they were unanimously re- fused. I 9535* I suppose they are hoping for better terms. There was a Land League meeting in the neighbourhood on the previous Sunday, and they were told not to give more than 12 years purchase, and they are acting on that. 19536. From your knowledge of the men, would they be afraid to give more than 12 years purchase in consequence of the warning of the Land League ? — I think so. I think the reign of terror exists so strongly in that part of the country that anybody disobeying the laws of the Land League will incur very serious risks. 1954 1. The President . — I suppose if the tenants were left to themselves they would be only too glad to take the offer ? — Well, some of the men in private to me before the general meeting expressed themselves only too delighted at the offer, that it was a most liberal offer. 19542. But they were prevented by the League ? — On consultation with some parties, I do not know who, they changed their minds. 20146. [Mr. R. M. Saunders, Cork.] — Do the National League oppose purchase ? — They oppose it as much as they can. 20147. — Do you think they oppose purchase altogether, or only purchase above a certain price? — I do not think they actually oppose it altogether, but they tell the tenants not to buy unless they get reasonable terms, but their reasonable terms would be seven years, or 10 years, or 12 years’ purchase. Naturally the tenants wish to get better terms ? — Quite so. 20803. [Lord CLONCURRY, Limerick.] — Do you know whether any of those evicted had paid anything for the tenant right of their 372 ] [ 77 ] holdings ? — I should say not, because every step was taken to prevent the creation of tenant right, both by my father and myself. 20804. You do not know of anything having been paid for the tenant right of any of those holdings by the person evicted? — No, I do not. 20805. Still you say they made great sacrifices in refusing to come to terms ?— -Yes. Since the evictions, one man told me himself that if he had remained in possession, his interest under the Land Act which came into operation a few months afterwards, would be worth ,£2,000, and I am sure that is so. 20806. And he has lost that ? — Lost it completely. 20807. You say there was no competition at all, in what way did you enter into possession of the land ? — By purchasing in at the sheriffs sale. All the farms were put up for sale by auction in the Limerick Court House, and there were no purchasers — no one was there representing the tenants. 20808. And any other tenant, if he had chosen, might have come forward and offered to buy at the sheriffs sale ? — Certainly. 20809. And would have been allowed to become a tenant, under that purchase ? — Certainly, the purchaser would have the absolute right to become the tenant. What was sold was the tenant’s interest. 20810. But I suppose in the circumstances of the times, any tenant would have been afraid to make an offer? They evidently felt so. No offer was made. 20811. Mr. Neligan. — Were they acting under any combination, or under any leader? — Oh, certainly. This was a most notorious case — one which the Land League took up as a test case. 20812. Oh, this is the Murroe case? — Yes, the Murroe evictions. 20813. Sir James Caird. — And did the whole of these lands pass into your hands without any competition by the tenants or any offer at all ? — There was no competition of any kind, and no appearance for the tenants at the sales. There was a very large profit to the lawyers. All these cases were contested. There were two records tried in Dublin, in each of these 36 holdings, at an expense of over ^3,000. 20814. You were put to that expense ? -Yes, I have paid more than ,£3,000 in costs. 20815. The President. — Every shilling of which went into the pockets of the lawyers, and was of no benefit to the tenants? — Yes, the tenants have lost all, and the lawyers have been the gainers to that extent. 20816. Lord MilUown. — I think I understood you to say that the [373 [ 78 ] tenants told you they could not possibly attend the Sheriff’s sales ? — Yes, that is the sort of language they used. 20817. What did that mean to convey, that they were intimidated, that they dare not attend, or that they were prevented by other engagements ? — They were afraid to go, what else would prevent them. 20818. That is what they gave you to understand? — If I express any doubt on the matter, I mean that I do not know whether it was physical dread or dread of social ostracism which operated upon them, but that they were under intimidation of some kind, and were afraid to go is beyond doubt. 20819. Quite so ; there was some extraneous influence which prevented them from doing that which they otherwise would have done ? — - Certainly. 20820. And if left free to exercise their own voluntary will they would have attended and bought in, you think ? — The best proof I can give of that is that one of the tenants took an action against the secretary of the Land League. It was tried in Dublin, and was brought for the loss the tenant incurred upon that very occasion. The jury disagreed, but the case was tried in Dublin, here, and the tenant appeared and prove d his loss by the transaction ; without result however. 20821. As matters at present stand they have practically lost the very large sum of money for which they could have sold their tenant right under the Act of 1881 ? — Most unquestionably. 20822. Utterly lost it? — Quite. 20823. And that loss has been occasioned through what, through their own wish or through the influence of the Land League ? — Well, I would say through their own cowardice, for they were afraid to do what the Land League told them not to do. 20824. Quite so — so then the loss was occasioned through the action of the Land League ? — I should say so. 20825. Are those tenants still living there in the hope of being read- mitted ? — I am informed many of them are living in the neighbourhood but none of them are living on my land. 20826. Is it within your knowledge, that the Land League has told them that they were sure of being readmitted if they only persevered and re- mained on ? — I read Mr. Dillon’s speech delivered in the locality last Sunday week, and he told them very plainly in it, they would be read- mitted if they only did as they were told to do, but I know no more about it than anyone else. 20827. Of course, if they believed that it would tend to lessen any effect 374] [ 79 ] which the Land Act or the Land Purchase Act might have in producing law and order, if they thought they would be put in as good a position as they were before by simply holding out ? — I would say so. 20836. [Mr. Francis J. Joyce examined.] — Do you think the combination is as powerful as it was in 1882 ? — I think considerably more powerful. I think it is more powerful at the present moment than ever it has been before. 20974. [Mr. Francis Joyce, Galway.] — If they got a lower rent by buying ? — Yes. It would be satisfactory to a man to know that after a number of years his holding would become his own. 20975. But they don’t seem to see it ? — No. 20976. Do you think that that is from the advice they get ? — Yes, I don’t think it would suit “ The Plan of Campaign ” to let these fellows buy their holdings. Mr. Dillon, in his speech at Loughrea, said, “ Don’t attempt “ to buy your holdings. Don’t buy in a falling market.” 20977. He supposed that the rents would be cut down to a lower figure ? — Yes ; he said they were not cut down to the proper level, and he said, “ Never buy in a falling market.” That was his advice to them. 21004. And that it is in consequence of the recent collapse of prices that any fault that has been found with it has arisen ? — Yes.— I don’t think these tenants are allowed to think much as to what is good or bad for them, and that they are carrying out exactly the orders they receive. 21026. Do you think that if they were allowed to exercise their own judgment, and that the tyranny which we have heard described were removed, and there was a probability of a restoration of law and order, that they would be anxious to buy ? — I have no doubt of it. 21027. And that that is what restrains them ? — I have no doubt of it. 21163. [Mr. Richard Walsh, Dublin.] — But there is another part of Ireland where the landlords would be willing to sell, and [375 [ 80 ] the tenants won’t buy ? — That is Mr. Joyce. I know Mr. Joyce ; he is a friend of mine. 21164. Can you account for this in any way? — I am afraid it is owing* to the League, the advice they are getting. 21533. [District Inspector Davis, Kerry.] — Lord Mill- town . — But the question I asked you, Mr. Davis, was whether you think intimidation had affected in any way the fair working of the Purchase Act ? — I understand ; well, really, I believe that if the people were inclined to purchase, and give more than what is thought in the neighbourhood generally they should give, I believe they would be intimidated to with- draw from their engagements. 21534. They would be ? — I believe they would. 21535. But you think from what you know of them, that if they were allowed to act on their own volition without interference from any external body, they would be desirous of purchasing their holdings ? — • Certainly, most anxious to purchase their holdings in that way ; but I suppose it is the inclination of human nature to get things as cheap as they can, and I am certain they are themselves not indisposed to a little intimidation, to show that they will not be allowed to give more than a certain amount of purchase for their land. 21536. Do you think that if they were left to themselves, they would be likely to come to terms with their landlords ? — I believe they would cer- tainly be most anxious to do so. -o 21650. [Mr. Edward Fowler, Galway.] — And has there •been — } s there much boycotting going on now — I think you said there is ? — There is in every place, and it seems to be on the increase. I have had information from various quarters about it. I wish to mention that they have fixity of tenure at very fair rents, but there is no such thing as free sale — it is not allowed. 21651. What do you mean — is it stopped by the League ? — Yes. 21652— And with regard to purchase, does the League interfere with the 376 ] [ 81 ] purchase on the part of the tenants of their holdings ? — Well, so far they are against it, I know. 21655. Would there be any sale of tenant right in your district if the League did not interfere with it ? — Oh, there would if allowed. 21761. Sir James Caird . — Is it your opinion that the tenants on the whole were well satisfied with the Act of 1881 giving them the three F’s ? — I think so, only these agitators put it into their heads that they must look for more. 23857. [Rev. W. De Montmorency, Kilkenny.]— Then can you give any reason why you think that the tenants have not enter- tained the idea of purchasing ? — One great reason is that they fear that the Government would not give them time. That is the reason that they nearly all adduce when you ask them why they do not purchase. 23858. Lord Milltown . — That the Government would not be as liberal a landlord as you are ? — That is what they mean. 23859. The President . — Are they prevented from making any offers by the League or by intimidation ? — Well, I could not say that there is in- timidation as to purchasing, but I can give an instance of where a man was prevented from taking a farm by the League. 23865. I think you were going to give me an instance of the League preventing purchase of a farm just now, which was not a farm from which a man had been evicted ?— No ; it was held by a gentleman close to the city of Kilkenny, who got into bad health. He was a large agent and friend of mine, and with the best of good will he surrendered the farm to me. There was a man most anxious to get the farm who wrote before this man surrendered, that he heard that this man was going to surrender, and asking me to set it to him ; and not only did he write himself to me, but he got all his friends, and everybody that he thought would have any influence upon me, to try and make me give him the preference of this farm. I put the setting of this farm into the hands of an agent, and I handed over these letters to him. He went to the man, and the matter was almost arranged, he was to come up and meet me, and sign a final agree- ment, when suddenly he seemed to get very lukewarm about the matter. The agent, when he did not come, went to him and he said, “ On second considerations I think 1 will not take the farm.” My agent said, “You had better think over it,” and he then wrote to say that he found it would interfere G [377 with his business, taking this farm, and I have since heard that the Land League at a meeting thought that he was giving too much for the farm, and threatened to boycott him if he took it. 24090. [The O’CONNOR Don, Roscommon.] Combination amongst other things, interfering with the sale o i the tenant-right ?— Yes. I have not had myself any combination against paying rent on my estates this year, but I may mention a case with which I am acquainted. Until the agitation commenced in the district, within the last fortnight or three weeks, the rents were well paid, and even paid with hardly any reduction. The agent on this estate, however, went down, shortly after a public meeting had been held, to collect the rents, and he offered an abatement of three or four shillings in the pound. I will read an extract from a letter which he then wrote. He says, “No one came near me the “ first day nor the second day, until after night set in, an odd tenant “ strolled in, and others sent their rents through a third party, as they “ were afraid to be seen paying themselves. Tenants who were inclined “to pay were intimidated by others who did not wish them to pay. A “ meeting of the tenants was held on the public street, and resolutions “ passed that no payments were to be made except at a reduction of 5s. I “ refused to listen to this, and at last they accepted my offer.” He adds that he succeeded in getting nearly all the rents at the abatement he announced. 27592. [Mr. Rochfort, Agent in Dublin, Tipperary and Queen’s County.] — You have some evidence to lay before us ? — Yes. You ask me to what extent, if any, is the operation of the Land Act of 1881 affected by combinations to resist the enforcement of legal obligations. In answer to that I have to say that the National League offers the strenuous opposition to free sale, such opposition being an important part of the policy of “ bringing the landlords to their knees.” The knowledge that an insolvent evicted tenant is not permitted by the League to sell his interests doubtless tends to make the poorer landlords shrink from evicting. 378 ] [ 83 ] 27594- I s there actual terrorism ? — There is a sort of public feeling, and no one likes to incur the odium. On Lord Lansdowne’s Queen’s County property a tenant has in vain tried to sell his interest in a nice grass farm of forty Irish acres, and I attribute his inability to do so to National League influence. 27636. I ask you this question. Is the reluctance to purchase caused by dread of the action of the National League ?— I think so, very largely. [379 INDEX. Anonymous. — Evidence of : — Giving information endangers life [17613-15] 53 : The people are getting tired of this lawlessness [17616-21] 53. Barrett, John E. — Evidence of : — The League is master of the situation altogether [19492] S : Outside the pale of civilisation [19506-11] 9 : Prevented from attending a place ef worship [19513-16] 10 : No instruction for boycotted children [19517-21] 10: Deprived of chapel and school [19472-74; 19493; 19512-18] 40. Boycotted. — Because of disobedience of the unwritten law. [B. Horan, 27694-97 ; 27708-42] 47. Boycotting a la Mode. — The story of the Curtins’ [Heffernan Considine. Questions 1432-1445] IS : The boycotting of Gweedore Fishery [Hon. Somerset Ward, 8439-8444] 19 : The experiences of Father O’Leary [16208-16216] 20 : A clergyman boycotted for signmg a petition against Home Rule [George F. Trench 1642C- 16423] 22 : Canon Griffin’s Reminiscences [16797-16846] 23 : The Collier case [George Collier 16489-16522] 28 : The case of the Cork blacksmith [J. Hamilton, Q.C., 18592-18596] 31 : The story of the brothers Troy [19422 19471] 32: Deprived of chapel and school [J. E. Barrett, 19472-19518] 40 : “I could not send my children to school because they would be murdered ” [Eugene M‘Carthy, 19573-19581] 41 : The boycotting of Captain Eye [Captain Tonson Eye, 20314-20315] 42 : Boycotting the babe unborn [E. M. Richards, 24504-24510] 42: The case of Mr. Purdon Coote’s bog bailiff [Purdon Coote, 27468- 27476] 45 : Boycotted because of disobedience to the unwritten law [B. Horan, 27694-27733] 47. Boycotting. — Depends for success on outrage [H. F. Considine, 1485-6 ; 1503-7] 3 : Its application and its immunity from attack [District- Inspector Davis, 21446 ; 21505-8] 16. Brady, A. Newton, B.L., R.M. — Evidence of : — A tribute to the Crimes Bill of 1S82 [1232-4] 2. Buller, General Sir E. E. — Evidence of : — Fear of intimidation rampant all over the country [16460-16503] 7 : On moonlighting [16505-9] 59 : The interference with purchase [16478-9] 72 : Clergyman boycotted for signing a petition against Home Eule [George F. Trench, 16420-23] 22, Cloncurry Lord. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [20803-27] 76. Collier Case [George Collier, 18489^-18522] 28. 380] t 85 ] Combination in Cork as bad as ever [E. B. Warburton, R.M., 1124-5] 1. Composition of the League [Richard Creed, 19636-40] 11. Considine, Heffernan F., R. M.~- Evidence of; — The perfection of League organisation makes intimidation unnecessary [1367-1405] 3 : Boycotting depends for success on outrage [1485-6 ; 1507] 3 : The story of the Curtins’ [1432-45] 18 : On moonlighting [1340- 1, 1360-4] 59 : The interference with Purchase [1371, 1407-8, 1504-6] 67. Coote, C. Puedon. — Evidence of : — Case of bog bailiff [27468-76] 45. Cork Blacksmith: Case of the [J. Hamilton, Q.C., 18592-6] 31. Cork Leaguers Some of the leading. — [E. B. Warburton, R.M.,' 1126-8] 1. Cosby, Captain. — Evidence of : — Law of the land giving way to the law of the League [26073-76] 17. Courts of the period, The. — M. Leonard, 18368-77, 18388-91] 62 : [Captain T. Rye, 20317-20, 27477-90] 63 : Creed, Richard. — Evidence of : — The labourers rebel against the League [19629-32] 11 : The labourers to be thanked much more than Government [19633-35] 11: The composition of the League [19636-40] 11 : Government abdication in favour of the League [19641-43] 12. Crimes Bill of 1882, A tribute to the. — [A. Newton Brady, 1232-4] 2. Crosbie Colonel. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [16554-7] 72. Cross, D.G. — Evidence of ; — The National League is very busy [25930-34] 16, Curtins’: The story of the [Heffernan Considine 1432-1445] 18. Daly, R.B. — Evidence of : — A lad behind a counter secretary to the League [23151-54] 6. Davis, District Inspector William — Evidence of : — Outrages in Kerry, and why they have stopped somewhat [2139-45] 15: Boycotting, its application and its immunity from attack [21446, 21505-8] 16: Everybody would say they did nothing to him [21452-60] 55 : People dare not help the police [21556-63] 56 : Fifty persons under protection in Kerry [21564-72] 56 : Murder with impunity unless witnessed by police [21573-80] 57: On the interference with purchase [21533-6] 80. Deprived of Chapel and School. — [J. E. Barrett, 19472-74; 19493, 19512-18] 40. Determination not to convict, the crux of the whole matter. — [J. Hamilton, Q.C., 18577-78 ; 18602-5] 55: Ennis Board of Guardians simply a Land League Club. — [Richd. Stackpoole J 14934-35] 7. Everybody would say they did nothing to him. — [District Inspector Davis, 21452-60] 55. Fowler, Ed. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [21650-2 ; 21761 ; 21655, 23857-9, 23865] 81. Franks, J. H.— Evidence on the interference with purchase, 66. [381 t 86 ] Garvey, Toler E.— Evidence of It all depends upon the action of the Government [3608-9] 4 : The interference with purchase [3622] 68. Giving information endangers life. — [Anonymous, 17613-15] 53. Government, if won’t assist, people must go with the League. — [Captain Cosby, 26077-79] 17. — Abdication in favour of the League.— [Richd. Creed, 19641-43] 12 . — It all depends on the action of the.— [T. R. Garvey, 3608-9] 4. Total absence of civilized. — [F. J. Joyce, 20892-96] 13. Griffin, Eey. Canon, P.P.— Evidence of [16797, 16818, 16840-46] 23. Hamilton, J., Q.C. — Evidence of : — Case of the Cork blacksmith [18592-6] 31. No jury in the country parts would convict [18571-6] 54 : Determination not to convict, the crux of the whole matter [18577-8, 18602-5] 55. Hardy, Joseph, — Evidence of Everything proceeds from the League [12202] 6 : The interference with purchase [12198, 12218-9] 69. Hegarty, J., J.P. — Evidence on the interference with purchase- [18945] 75. Henn, Francis Blackburn, R.M. — Evidence of : — Result of tackling the Mayo Invincibles [1303-7] 2 : Xo murder, but marked improve- ment since, [1308-12] 2. Hewson, J. B.— Evidence on the interference with purchase [15142-4] 70. Horan, B. — Evidence of : — Boycotted because of disobedience of Unwritten Law [27694-97, 27708-42] 47. Hussey, S. M. — Evidence of : — If you tell the police you will be shot [17901-2] 52 : Not one-fifth of the outrages are published [17903-7] 52 : The interference with purchase [18002-12] 73. If you tell the police you will be shot [S. M. Hussey, 17901-2] 52. Intimidation, fear of, rampant all over the country. — [Gen. Sir E. Red vers Buller, 16460, 16503] 7. Joyce, Francis J. — Evidence of Outrage follows disobedience of the League’s commands [20843-44] 12 : Total absence of civilized Government [20892-96] 13 : Not w-orth a man’s life to be outside the League ranks [20906-9] 13 : The moving spirits of the League [20910-13] 14 : Boycotted school teacher [20914-16] 15 The interference with purchase [20836, 20974-7, 21004, 21026-27] 79. Kerry, fifty persons at least under protection in [District-Inspector Davis, 21564-72] 56. Labourers rebel against the League [Richard Creed, 19629-32] 11 to be thanked much more than Government [Richard Creed [19633-35] 11. Lad behind a counter secretary to the League [R. B. Daly, 23151-54] 6. Law of the land giving way to the law of the League [Captain Cosby, 26073- 76] 17. Plunkett, Capt. R. M.— Evidence on the interference with purchase [19033] 75. 382 ] [ S7 ] League, Everything proceeds from the [Joseph Hardy, 12202] 6. has now complete domination over the people [15139-40] 7. is master of the position altogether [J. E. Barrett, 19492-19500] 8. Paying to the, by way of insurance [EL W. Lowry, 7177-81 ; 7233] 5. organisation, Perfection of, makes intimidation unnecessary [H. F. Considine, 1367-1405] 3. League Terrorism. — S. M. Hussey [17901-7] 52 : James Sullivan [17279-84] 53 Anonymous [17613-21] 53 : J. Hamilton, Q.C. [18571-8 ; 18602- 5] 54 : District-Inspector Davis [21452 60 ; 21556-80] 55-8. Leonard, Maurice. — Evidence on the courts of the period [18368-77 ; 18388- 91] 62. Lowry, II. W. — Evidence of; — Paying to the League by way of insurance [7177-81; 7233] 5: The interference with purchase [7251-2] 68. M‘Carthy, Eugene. — Evidence of ; — The boycotted tenant farmer [19573-83] 41. Mayo Invincibles, The result of tackling the [1303-7] 2. Moonlighting. Some points about. H. F. Considine. R.M. [1340-41 ; 1360= 4] 59 ; [1417-23 ; 1446-57] 60 : General Buller [16505] 59. Moving spirit of the League, The [F. J. Joyce, 20910-13] 14. Murder with impunity unless witnessed by police [District-Inspector Davis, 21573-80] 57. National League is very busy The [D. G. Cross, 25930-34] 16. No jury in the country parts would convict [J. Hamilton, 18571-6] 54. — murder but marked improvement since [F. B. Henn. 1308-12] 2. — instruction for boycotted children [John E. Barrett, 19517-21] 10. Not worth a man’s life to be outside the League ranks [F. J. Joyce, 20906* 9] 13. one-fifth of the outrages are published [S, M. Hussey, 17903-7] 52. O’Connor Don, The. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [24090] 82, O’Leary, Rev. John, P.P. — Evidence of [16208-16] 20. Outrage follows disobedience o the League’s commands [F. J. Joyce, 20843* 44] 12. Outrages in Kerry and why they have stopped somewhat [District-Inspector William Davis, 21439-45] 15, Outside the pale of civilisation [John E. Barrett, 19506-11] 9. People are tired of it [C. U. Townshend, 2692] 4. are utterly sick [T. R. Garvey, 3611] 4. are getting tired of this lawlessness [Anonymous, 17616-21] 53. don’t like to give any information [Jas. Sullivan, 17279-84] 53. dare not help the police [District-Inspector Davis, 21556-63] 56. Prevented from attending a place of worship [John E. Barrett, 19513-16] 10. Priest of Gweedore, the head and moving spirit of the League [Hon. S. Ward> 8469-731 5. [383 [ 88 ] Purchase, tho interference with.— Evidence of J. H. Franks, 66 : E. B. Warburton, R.M. [1097-1131-34] 66: H. F. Con- sidine, R.M. [1371, 1407-8, 1504-6] 67: C. U. Townshend [2694-7,2746-8] 67 : T. R. Garvey [3622] 68 : R. W. Lowry [7251-2] 69: T. Small [11132-4] 69: J. Hardy [12198, 12219] 69 ; R. Stackpoole [14945-51] 69 : J. B. Hewson [15142- 41] 70 : J. T. Trench, J.P. [1576S-74, 15781, 16396-8] 71 : G. F. Trench, [16402] 72 : Gen. Buller [16478-9] 72: Col. Crosbie [16554 -7] 72: Geo. Sandes [17373] 73: S. M. Hussey [18002-12] 74 : W. D. Webber [18687] 74 : J. Hegarty, J. P. [18945] 75 : Capt. Plunkett R.M. [19033] 75 : J. E. Barrett [19533-6,19541-2] 76 : R. M. Saunders [20146-7] 76 : Lord Cloncurry [20803-27] 76 : F. J. Joyce [20S36, 20974-7, 21004, 21026-7] 79 : R. Walsh [21163-4] 79 : District-Inspector Davis [21533-6] 80: Ed. Fowler [21650-2,21655, 21761] 81 : Rev. W. De Montmorency [23857-9,23865] 81 : The O’Connor Don [24090] 82 : Mr. Rochfort, [27592, 27636. 27594] 82. Richards, E. M. — Evidence of : — Boycotting the babe unborn [24504-10] 42. Rochfort, Mr. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [27592-4 ; 27636] 82. Rye, Captain R. T. — Evidence of : — The boycotting of Captain Rye [20314- 15] 42. The Courts of the period. — [20317-20, 27477-90] 63. Sandes, George. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [17373] 73. Saunders, R. M. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [20146-7] 76. School Teacher, The boycotted [F. J. Joyce, 20914-16] 15. Small, T. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [11132-4] 69. Stackpoole, Richard. — Evidence of : — The Ennis board of guardians simply a Land League club [14934-35] 7 : The interference with purchase [14945-51] 69. Sullivan, James— Evidence of ; — The people don’t like to give any informa- tion [17279-84] 53. Trench, Geo. F.— Evidence of: — A clergyman boycotted for signing a petition against Home Rule [16420-23] 22 : The interference with purchase [16402] 72. Trench, J. T., J.P. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [15768-74, 15781, 16396-8] 71. Townshend, C. U. — Evidence of : — The people are tired of it [2692] 4 : The interference with purchase [2694-7, 2745-8] 67. Troy Brothers. — Story of the [19422, 19471] 32. Walsh, Richard. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [21163-4] 79. Warburton, E. B., R.M. — Evidence of : — Combination in Cork [1124-5] 1 ; Some of the leading Cork Leaguers [1126-8] 2 : The interference with purchase [1097 ; 1131-4] 66. Ward, Hon. Somerset. — Evidence of : The priest of Gweedore the head and moving spirit of the League [8469-73] 5 : Boycotting of Gweedore Fishery [8439-44] 19. Webber, W. D. — Evidence on the interference with purchase [18587] 74. 384] i J .• U vj u ^ 0 ACME BOOKBINDING CO., INC. NOVI 51983 ICO CAMBRIDGE STREET CHARLESTOWN, MASS. BOSTON COLLEGE 903 1 024 74484 9