MR. CHAMBERLAIN 
 
 AND THE 
 
 BIEMmGHAM ASSOCIATION 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 DELIVERED IN THE 
 
 TOWN HALL, BIRMINGHAM, 
 
 APRIL 21, 1886. 
 
 The Libeku. Committee fok the Maintenance of the Legislative 
 IHE ^^^^^\^^^^^ between Geeat Britain and Ikeland, 
 
 35 SPRIxYG GARDENS, WESTMINSTER, S .W, 
 
,CH3 
 
 O'NEILL LIBRARY 
 BOSTON COLLEGE 
 
MJ^. CHAMBEELAIN 
 
 AND THE 
 
 BIEMINGHAM ASSOCIATION 
 
 The annual meeting of the Two Thousand of the Birmingham 
 Liberal Association was held in the Birmingham Town Hall 
 April 21st, and derived special interest from the circumstance 
 that an invitation had been given to Mr. Chamberlain to deliver an 
 address upon the proposals of ^Mr. Gladstone with respect to the 
 future government of Ireland. There was a very full attendance, 
 x\mong those present were Messrs. G. Dixon, M.P., H. G. Reid, 
 M.P., W. Cook, M.P., W. Kenrick, M.P., Powell Williams, M.P., 
 and Dr. Foster, M.P. Mr. F. Schnadhorst was unanimously 
 elected president and Mr. A. C. Osier, vice-president for the 
 ensuing year. Other appointments were also made, and a 
 resolution was passed thanking Mr, G. Dixon, M.P., for his 
 services to the party in the capacity of president of the Associa- 
 tion, and also thanking Alderman R. Chamberlain, M.P,, and 
 Alderman Powell Williams, M.P., fortheir services as vice- 
 president and hon. secretary. Mr. Chamberlain entered with 
 Dr. Dale, at the conclusion of the formal business, and was 
 received with great enthusiasm. 
 
 THE GRAVITY OF THE QUESTION WE HAVE TO DECIDE- 
 
 Mr. Chamberlain, who, on rising to speak, was received with 
 prolonged cheers, said : Whatever view this meeting of the 
 representatives of this great constituency may take on the subject 
 which has called us together, I am con^dnced that upon one point 
 we shall all be agreed, and that no one will underestimate the 
 gravity and the magnitude of the discussion to which we are 
 invited. (Hear, hear.) On the one hand, we have the venerable 
 
( * ) 
 
 and trusted leader of the Liberal party — (loud cheers) — who 
 invites us to consider the scheme which he believes wdll put am 
 end to that perennial difficulty, the Irish difficulty, which has- 
 been the anxiety and almost the despair of politicians for so 
 many years ; and, on the other hand, we have also tO 
 
 consider that if by any chance he should now be 
 mistaken, if we should be over sanguine, over 
 hasty, in accepting his view, we shall take a step 
 that we cannot retrace— (cheers)— which may be 
 disastrous to the interests of the United King- 
 dom — ("No,'' and interruption) — and which may lessen, if it 
 does not destroy, the power and the influence of that mighty 
 Empire which has been built up and left to us as a heritage by 
 our forefathers, and which has done so much to promote the 
 civilisation and the freedom of the world. We have often dis- 
 cussed important questions on this platform. We have discussed 
 the reform of the land laws, the provision for national educa- 
 tion ; we have discussed the question of Church establishment 
 and the question of the extension of public liberties, but on all 
 those occasions we have been discussing questions which may 
 fairly be considered as within the limits of the State. (Hear, 
 hear.) Now w^e are called upon to face a question upon which a 
 
 wrong decision may imperil the existence of the 
 
 State itself. (Cheers.) I am very glad to have the oppor- 
 tunity which is afforded to me by our brief recess to confer 
 with you, my friends and fellow townsmen — (hear, hear) — whose 
 sympathy and support has been afforded to me on so many 
 occasions, and has given me strength in times of difficulty and 
 anxiety — (A Voice : " And will again") — (cheers) — whose 
 Liberalism no one has ever been bold enough to call in question, 
 and whose judgment I have hitherto always been able cordially 
 to accept. I thought, in the first instance, of appealing to 
 those who are in a special sense my own constituents, my friends 
 in West Birmingham, but it was urged upon me that I had not 
 ceased to be one of the members for Birmingham — (cheers) — 
 and that I might without presumption, and without any slight 
 
( 5 ) 
 
 to those who have been good enou^ii to return me to ParHa- 
 ment, address myself to you, the representatives of the whole 
 of w^hat was once my constituency. (Cheers.) There is one 
 other observation w^hich I should like to make by way of preface 
 before I come to the main subject of our discussion. 
 
 THE FUTURE OF THE LIBERAL PARTY AT STAKE. 
 
 I have said that w^e are discussing a matter which may con- 
 cern the existence of the State ; after that it may seem a small 
 
 thing to say that upon our right conduct of this con- 
 troversy depends the existence of the Liberal 
 party as a great and potent force in the political 
 
 life of the future. (Hear, hear.) That is not a small matter 
 to me. Fifteen or sixteen years ago I was drawn into politics 
 by my interest in social questions, and by my desire to promote 
 the welfare of the great majority of the population. At that 
 time I saw the great majority — the masses — of industrious, 
 thrifty, hard-working artisans and labourers condemned by bad 
 laws and by neglect of their rulers to a life of exacting 
 toil w^ithout the advantages and liberties which education affords, 
 and borne down by conditions which I thought to be unfair and 
 unjust ; and then I looked to the Liberal party as the means for 
 removing and remedying those grievances — ^as the great instru- 
 ment of progress and reform — and from that time to this I have 
 done everything that an individual can do. I have made sacri- 
 fices of money and time and labour — (hear, hear) — I have made 
 sacrifices of my opinions, to maintain the organisation and to 
 preserve the unity of the Liberal party. (Cheers.) Even now, 
 in this time of discouragement and anxiety, when personal 
 friendships and political ties are breaking down under the strain 
 of the dissensions which have arisen among us, I entreat of 
 
 you, and I implore of you, that you will so continue 
 this discussion that when this time of trial is past 
 we may once more unite— (loud cheers)— without em- 
 bittered memories^ without unkind reflections, to 
 
( 6 ) 
 
 carry forward the great work upon which hitherto 
 we have been absolutely unanimous. (Cheers.) Surely, 
 
 it is the very irony of fate that we should be here to-night to 
 discuss a question which, I will venture to say, never entered 
 into our thoughts or anticipations a few months ago, when we 
 were engaged in the General Election. It is not very long ago 
 since I was addressing you in this hall. I was congratulating 
 you upon our success in Birmingham, upon our comparative 
 success throughout the country, and upon the hope which then 
 burned in my breast that shortly we should see some consider- 
 able progress made towards the amelioration of the condition 
 of the people ; towards the solution of those great social problems 
 which had excited our interest and our sympathy. I do not 
 believe there was a man among us at that time who thought 
 that in a few short weeks all these matters would be relegated 
 to the dim and distant future, that we should be absorbed in 
 this vast problem of reconstituting and remodelling the arrange- 
 ments between the three kingdoms which constitute the British 
 Empire. (Cheers.) 
 
 THE PRESENT CRISIS BROUGHT ABOUT BY- 
 MR. GLADSTONE. 
 
 What has produced this great change in the 
 situation P There is nothing new, there is nothing 
 that was unexpected in the condition of Ireland^ 
 
 (Hear, hear.) There has been no popular demand in England or 
 in Scotland. (Hear, hear.) No. Let us recognise the fact; 
 
 the whole change is due to the force of character, 
 to the determination— aye, I will say to the courage 
 
 —of one great, illustrious man— (cheers)— and although 
 
 I regret the object for which these qualities have 
 
 been displayed, I will say to you that never before has my 
 admiration for them been so sincere and so profound. (Cheers.) 
 But just think what is the nature of the change which has thus 
 been effected. For eighty-six years the question of the repeal 
 of the Union has been a matter of agitation in Ireland. It has- 
 
( 7 ) 
 
 been a fitful agitation— (hear, hear)— sinking or swelling with the 
 changing conditions of Irish politics and of Irish social condi- 
 tions. But during the whole of that period no English states- 
 man has been found, including even the present Prime Minister 
 —(cheers)— no statesman has been found who has regarded this 
 agitation as otherwise than sentimental ; as being, that is to say, 
 the expression of discontent with existing legislation, but not the 
 fixed idea of the people of Ireland. (H.ea.i', hear.) I do not 
 believe that there has been any Eadical, any Liberal of note who 
 has hitherto, until very recently indeed, doubted that withjthe 
 removal of the material grievances of Ireland this desire for 
 separation would cease and die away. (Hear, hear). The situa- 
 tion has changed just at the time when a Parliament has been 
 elected, strengthened by an infusion of influence and support— 
 (hear, hear)— and more ready than any Parhament that has ever 
 existed to do justice to Ireland, to secure equality, to secure 
 absolute equality between the ^three kingdoms, and to remove 
 every grievance against which a reasonable claim could be set 
 out. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 THE NEW DEPARTURE. 
 But now we are asked to embark on a new order 
 of ideas; we are asked, once for all, to give up the 
 hope which I confess I have ever cherished, that 
 in the course of time, with fairness and kindness, 
 and, above all, justice— (hear, hear)— a policy of re- 
 conciliation, pursued consistently by the Imperial 
 Parliament, might unite Ireland to Great Britain 
 
 in bonds as firm and ^ as close as those which now unite Scotland 
 to England. (Hear, hear.) All this we have to surrender, 
 and we are asked to seek rehef from present difficulties by the 
 surrender of the hope of anything in the nature of closer union, 
 to look for it in a loosening, if not in a severance, of the bonds 
 which have hitherto held the peoples together. (" No, no," and 
 cheers.) Unless you have changed very much— ('' You have.") 
 —No, I have not changed. (Loud cheers.) What I say now with 
 
( 8 ) 
 
 pain and grief I have said with your assent and approval ever 
 since I have been in pubHc hfe ; and I say that miless you have 
 changed, this new view of the situation is a hard saying, and 
 ahnost a humihation. 
 
 ONLY ONE PERSON. 
 
 There is only one person in the three kingdoms who can regard 
 the situation with unmixed satisfaction, only one person who 
 has no past to appeal to which should be inconsistent with his 
 present opinions, and that is the distinguished leader of the 
 Nationalist party in Ireland — (hisses) — the uncrowned king — 
 (laughter) — Mr. Parnell. (Cheers.) You know that I have 
 never, either in public or private, spoken with other than respect 
 of Mr. Parnell. I believe him to be sincere and patriotic. I 
 think, however, he has been mistaken in his course, but at least 
 I give. him credit for perfect honesty of purpose, and I recognise 
 in him a man who knows his own mind, who has stated his 
 desires and demands again and again, and who has never with- 
 drawn one jot from the position he has taken up. Well, now, 
 that we are asked to consider the possibility of a final settle- 
 ment of the Irish question it becomes of more than ordinary im- 
 portance that we should see what it is that the Irish people, 
 through Mr. Parnell, have asked for. Now, I could take, I 
 believe, haphazard, almost every speech that Mr. Parnell has 
 made during the last five or six years, and I could find repeated 
 again and again, views that he has put forward. I will, however, 
 call your attention to two of those speeches which seem to me 
 to put the position in a nutshell. In the first place here is an 
 extract from a speech which Mr. Parnell delivered at Cincinnati 
 
 on February 23, 1880. 
 
 » 
 
 MR. PARNELL'S DEMAND FOR SEPARATION. 
 
 He was speaking to the Irish- Americans, and he said " None 
 
 of US, whether in America or Ireland, or wherever 
 we may be, will be satisfied until we have de- 
 stroyed the last link which keeps Ireland bound 
 to England." (Shame.) That is a policy which Mr. 
 
( 9 ) 
 Parnell has consistently pursued- My next quotation 
 
 will show you, also, what are the methods by which he has 
 pursued it. I have said that, as far as I know, he has never 
 varied in the slightest degree in the character or extent of his 
 demands, but I am bound to say he has varied very much in 
 his opinion of certain prominent statesmen. (Laughter.) You 
 will see from the quotation that I am about to give you that 
 he did not always speak of Mr. Gladstorf5 with the respect and 
 admiration which I am glad to think he now sincerely feels for 
 him. (Laughter.) This is from a speech which was delivered 
 at Wexford on October 18, 1881. 
 
 MR. PARNELL'S DEFIANCE OF MR. GLADSTONE. 
 
 Mr. Parnell said that he (Mr. Gladstone) " would have you 
 beheve that he is not afraid of you because he has disarmed 
 you, because he has attempted to disorganise you, because he 
 knows that the Irish nation is disarmed so far as physical 
 weapons go ; but he does not hold this kind of language with 
 the Boors, although he has attempted to regain some of his lost 
 position with the Transvaal by subsequent chicanery and diplo- 
 matic negotiations. Yet that sturdy and small people in the 
 distant Transvaal have sent over to William Ewart Gladstone, 
 and have told him again, for the second time, that they will not 
 have their liberties filched from them, and I believe that, as a 
 result, we shall see that William Ewart Gladstone will again 
 yield to the people of the Transvaal, and I trust that, as the 
 result of this great movement, we shall see that just as Mr. 
 Gladstone, by the Act of 1881, has eaten all his old words, has 
 departed from all his formerly-declared principles, now we shall 
 see that these brave words of this English Prime Minister will 
 be scattered as chaff before the united and advancing determina- 
 tion of the Irish people to regain for themselves their lost land 
 and their lost legislative independence." I have said that I 
 could point probably to almost any speech which has been 
 delivered in recent times, up to the very meeting of Parliament, 
 by Mr. Parnell, in confirmation of the views which are expressed 
 in the extracts which I have read to you. I ask you whether 
 
 A 2 
 
( 10 ) 
 
 there is any man among you who believes any settle- 
 ment of the Irish question will be permanent— 
 (- No")— which does not yield to the full demands of 
 Mr. Parnell, which dees not enable him to break 
 the last link which holds Ireland to Great Britain," 
 
 \Yhicli does not give him full control of the land of Ireland, and 
 does not make Irelan(i. absolute master of her own legislative 
 independence? (Hear hear.) We have heard in the 
 
 course of the discussions in the House of Commons 
 the argument used that if we do not concede the 
 wishes o^ the Irish people as expressed by their 
 representatives in Parliament, we shall have once 
 more an outburst of outrage and violence in Ireland, 
 and that even here in England we shall be sub- 
 jected to the nefarious proceedings of assassins 
 and of dynamiters. That is a cowardly— (loud cheering, 
 
 and cries of '' Bravo," which were twice renewed)— and a mean 
 
 argument, and it ought not to be addressed to 
 
 Englishmen by Englishmen. (Cheers, and a voice : 
 " Who said that?") But I only refer to it in passing in order 
 to point out to you that the argument applies equally to any 
 proposal which does not meet the full demands of Mr. Parnell. 
 It applies to any proposal wliich does not give to him the abso- 
 lute legislative independence of his country. 
 
 WILL MR. GLADSTONE'S SCHEME SATISFY MR. PARNELL ? 
 
 Let us now consider how far the Bill wliich is before us for the 
 better Government of Ireland fulfils the conditions wliich Mr, 
 Parnell has laid down, and, if it fulfils those conditions, whether 
 you or I can hope that it wiU be a permanent settlement. If it 
 be not a permanent settlement we shall again have the Irish 
 problem upon us in all its complicati(5ns, and in all its difficulties 
 —aye, into the distant future. What is the proposal ? 
 
( 11 ) 
 
 MR. GLADSTONE'S PROPOSAL- 
 
 The proposal is, that there shall be established in Dublin a 
 Parhament representative of the Irish people. (Cheers and 
 hisses.) At the same time it is proposed that Ireland shall be 
 deprived of all representation in the English Parhament. 
 ("Hear, hear," and -'No, no.") I am speaking of the Bill; 
 some gentleman says " No " ; if he has read the Bill he will find 
 that I am perfectly accurate. (Cheers and " Hear, hear.") By 
 the Bill it is proposed that all representation of Irishmen in the 
 Imperial Parliament shall cease. Henceforth Ireland is to have 
 no part in the foreign and colonial affairs of this great and 
 mighty Empire, which Irishmen have done so much to build up. 
 (Hear.) It is to have no share in the control of the Army and 
 Navy, to which Ireland has given so many brave and valiant 
 sons. It is to have no part in any matter relating to trade or 
 navigation, and to a number of minor matters which henceforth 
 are to be decided, so far as Ireland is concerned, in the Parlia- 
 ment, which will then indeed be a foreign Parliament, since not 
 a siagle Irish representative will find a place in it. That is not 
 all. This Imperial Parhament is henceforth to be sole judge and 
 arbiter in the matter of all taxation concerned in excise and 
 customs. ('' Hear, hear," and a voice : " So it ought to be.") 
 It is to fix the amount and character of that taxation, it is to 
 deal with three-fourths of the taxation revenue of Ireland, and 
 the Irish people are to have no voice at all. (Shame.) Does my 
 friend in the gallery say that that is as it ought to be ? (Cheers.) 
 Does he call himself a Liberal ? Does he pretend to be 
 
 a Radical when he approves of a system which 
 would tax the Irish people to three-fourths of 
 the whole revenue of the country, and gives 
 them absolutely no representation in the Parlia- 
 ment v/hich levies these imposts ? (Cheers.) The 
 Bill does more than this— it imposes on the Irish 
 people a Constitution which I venture to say 
 is absolutely odious and hateful to every true 
 
( 12 ) 
 
 Liberal. (Hear, hear.) It would be repudiated with scorn in 
 this country. (Cheers.) It is contrary to all the practice, to 
 all the principles, of our representative government. There is 
 to be an assembly with two orders ; life peers are to be ex officio 
 members of the assembly ; a third of the body are to be elected 
 with a property qualification, and by electors who are also to 
 have a property quahfication — (shame) — and then this privi- 
 leged minority of one-third of the new assembly is to have an 
 absolute veto for a limited time over all the proceedings of the 
 majority of popularly elected representatives ? It is an 
 extraordinary arrangement to be proposed by a 
 Liberal to a Democratic Parliament. Why is it so 
 
 proposed ? Because it appears that those safeguards and restric- 
 tions are necessary under the scheme of the Bill to give protec- 
 tion to minorities who were not otherwise to be trusted to a 
 popularly elected ParHament in Dublin. NoW, I ask you 
 
 seriously, as sensible men, Do you believe that 
 an arrangement of that kind is going to be per- 
 manent P ('* No.") Do you believe that that is a final 
 settlement of the question between Ireland and Great Britain? 
 C No.") Do you believe that any free people worthy of the 
 name would submit for long to such miserable restrictions upon 
 their liberty and their representative authority? (Cheers.) 
 
 A PARALLEL TO MR. GLADSTONE'S PROPOSALS. 
 
 Let me bring it home to you by a domestic illustration. 
 Suppose we were considering in this room to-night the desira- 
 bility of conceding local government to Birmingham, and suppose 
 that the propositions made to us were that we might have a 
 Town Council to govern our local affairs, provided that, in the first 
 instance, we give up our Parliamentary representation, and that, 
 in the next place, we allow the whole of the borough rate and 
 half of the improvement rate to be settled as to its amount and 
 to be collected by Sir William Harcourt as Chancellor of the 
 Exchequer. (Laughter.) Suppose we were asked to leave the 
 defence of our famihes and our houses to a poUce force governed 
 
( 13 ) 
 
 by Mr. Childers as Home Secretary. (Hear, hear.) Suppose 
 that if any difficulties arose between us and neighbouring local 
 authorities, we were expected to see them decided, without 
 reference to us, by Mr. Stansfeld, as President of the Local 
 Government Board. Suppose, then, that the Town Council was 
 to include among its members magistrates as ex-officlo liie 
 members — (laughter) — suppose that aldermen were elected by 
 £20 householders, and were required to possess a heavy property 
 quahfication ; and suppose, lastly, that then this privileged 
 minority had a veto given them on every Act and every resolu- 
 tion which might be passed by their popularly elected colleagues. 
 I ask you whether you would not resent such an offer as an 
 insult. (Cheers.) You would not pick it from the gutter. 
 (Cheers.) You would do anything rather than submit to such 
 degradation. (Hear, hear.) But, then, under these circum- 
 stances, how is it that there are some people who are sanguine 
 enough to suppose that the Irish nation will accept a precisely 
 similar arrangement as a final settlement of their claims for 
 legislative independence? (Hear, hear.) It is ridiculous. 
 (Cheers.) 
 
 ONLY AN INSTALMENT. 
 
 If these proposals are accepted at all they are 
 accepted only as an instalment -(hear, hear)— they 
 will be a justification for further demands- You 
 
 have.not to consider these safeguards and restrictions ; you have 
 to consider whether you will accept what will undoubtedly follow 
 when these restrictions and these safeguards are removed, and 
 Ireland becomes an independent and a foreign country and the 
 integrity of the Empire becomes an empty name. (Hear, hear.) 
 I do not know whether you have seen the speech which was 
 delivered last uight by Mr. Davitt at a pubHc meeting. I have 
 for Mr. Davitt the greatest respect. I believe him to be a man — 
 a really honest and a sincere patriot — (hear, hear)— who has 
 been led into this agitation by his knowledge of the privations 
 which his poorer countrymen have to endure— (hear, hear) — by 
 his desire to raise them to a higher level. In all that he has 
 
( li ) 
 
 done — not, perhaps, in all his methods, but m all his objects — I 
 have the deepest and the most earnest sympathy. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 MR. DAVITT'S ACKNOV/LEDGMENT THAT BILL WOULD 
 NOT SATISFY IRISH. 
 
 But Mr. Davitt, speaking last night, said that he had been asked 
 whether Irishmen would be satisfied with these arrangements, 
 and whether they would accept them as a permanent settle- 
 ment of the question. He said that was as unreasonable as to 
 ask him after he had had his breakfast to refrain from demanding 
 his dinner and his supper.^"^ (Cheers.) Sympathise with Mr. 
 Davitt — (laughter) — but, gentlemen, do not be led astray. 
 (Hear, hear.) It is not the breakfast alone that you will concede. 
 If you accept these proposals you will have very shortly a demand 
 for the dinner and the supper — (hear, hear) — and, believe me, 
 you will not be able to resist it. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 BILL FROM ENGLISH POINT OF VIEW. 
 
 I have hitherto spoken of this Bill entirely from the point of view 
 of Irish interests ; now, look at it for a moment from the point 
 of view of the interests of the United Kingdom. What is going 
 to happen under these brand-new circumstances ? 
 
 OUR POSITION IN CASE OF GREAT WAR. 
 Suppose, unfortunately, ws got involved in war 
 with a great Continental Power. You may think that 
 
 that is improbable, but remember it was only a few months ago, 
 under the leadership of the present Prime Minister, who I 
 verily believe is a most ardent lover of peace — (cheers) — more 
 anxious than any Prime Minister that has preceded him to avoid 
 international complications, yet even under his pacific leadership 
 we were on the e :e of a great struggle with Eussia — (hear, hear) 
 
 which might have strained the resources of the Empire to the 
 
 uttermost. Now, if that happens again, where shall we be ? 
 
 What will be the position of the various membsrs 
 of the so-called United Kingdom P England rnay 
 
 * Mr. Davitt has since -written to the papers to say that tlais illustration 
 did not apply to the present situation, but had reference to the position 
 of Irishmen after the Land Act of 18S1. 
 
( 15 ) 
 
 be struggling for its very existence ; it may ba in 
 the throes of death, but Ireland will be uncon- 
 cerned. ("No" and ** Yes.") I am speaking only of the 
 Constitution. (Hear, hear.) Under the new Constitution she will 
 be unaffected ; no call can be made upon her for assistance or 
 for aid. She will have no voice in the policy which has brought 
 us into conflict, she will have no part in it, she will have no 
 share in the pecuniary burdens which it may involve. She is 
 asked to provide fixed contributions — that is, settled upon a peace 
 estimate — to the cost of the Army and the Navy. When that is 
 provided her responsibility will cease ; she will have no further 
 obligation, no further concern. "Well, that may be all right ; 
 
 those are the new ideas ; but it is inconsistent, in 
 my judgment, with what always has been held by 
 the leader that we have* hitherto followed and 
 
 revered. (Hear, hear.) In the Manifesto which Mr. Gladstone 
 addressed to the electors of the United Kingdom at the time of 
 the General Election he laid down conditions which, in his judg- 
 ment, were paramount, and which must be fulfilled before any 
 concession could be made of local government to Ireland. 
 Those conditions were not only that the Union of the three 
 kingdoms and the integrity of the Empire should be pre- 
 served — (hear, hear) — but that the supremacy of the Crown 
 and the supremacy of Imperial control should be maintained. 
 (Hear, hear.) Well, I confess I have looked at this matter over 
 and over again, and Heaven knows I have desired, if I possibly 
 could, to find ground of agreement with the leader whom 
 hitherto, at any rate, I have always loyally followed. (Cheers.) 
 I say I cannot admit that those conditions laid down by him are 
 fulfilled by the arrangement by which, in the case of a great 
 war, Ireland, although, perhaps, subject indirectly to the conse- 
 quences of the struggle, would yet have no part whatever in the 
 contest, no share whatever in the burdens which it might in- 
 volve. There is one other point which I wish to put before yon 
 in reference to the Bill for the better government of Ireland. In 
 the debate on the introduction, my friend, Sir William Harcourfe 
 
( 16 ) 
 
 — (laugliter) — in a speech which was very witty, very amusing, 
 and very good-tempered, said, among other things, that he thought 
 he detected an Orange flavour in the arguments which I used. 
 (Laughter.) I do not think — no man knows himself, but I do 
 not think — that I have any sympathy whatever with bigotry — 
 (hear, hear) — whether it is exhibited by the Orangemen of the 
 North or by the Roman Cathohcs in the South — (hear hear) 
 — but, on the other hand, I cannot bhnd myself to the facts of 
 the situation. 
 
 IRELAND INHABITED BY TWO DISTINCT. PEOPLE. 
 We have been accustomed, perhaps a little too 
 much, to talk of Ireland as if it were one people. 
 
 There are two nations in Ireland — (hear, hear) — two commu- 
 nities separated by religion, by»race, by politics, by social condi- 
 tions. There are in Ireland at this moment something like a 
 inilhon and a quarter of Protestants, most of them in the Pro- 
 vince of Ulster, a great number in Dublin, and others scattered 
 up and down the country in httle groups, everywhere justifying 
 their existence by becoming the centre of honest, praiseworthy 
 industry and enterprise. (Cheers.) 
 
 IRISH PROTESTANT MINORITY ALWAYS LOYAL TO 
 ENGLAND. 
 
 This minority — it is not a small one — (hear, hear) — it is one 
 quarter of the whole population— through good repute and evil 
 repute has been loyal to the British connection — (cheers) — it has 
 been mdustrious, and it has been prosperous. Now, they are 
 bitterly opposed to this scheme, rightly or wrongly. Under the 
 protection of the British Government they have lived on terms of 
 amity with their Eoman Catholic neighbours. They believe that 
 their property, their religion — ay, and their lives — could not 
 safely be trusted to a Nationalist Parliament in Dublin. 
 
 (Cheers.) For my part, I hate coercion, and I am 
 not disposed to coerce these men by British 
 soldiers. I am not prepared to disregard altogether 
 
( 17 ) 
 
 their wishes and their feelings- (Hear, hear.) I 
 think that they are entitled to some consideration 
 from the British power that they have hitherto 
 uniformly supported. 
 
 BRITISH LIABILITY FOR £150,000,000. 
 
 We are asked now to pledge the credit of the British nation 
 to the extent, as I shall show you directly, of 150 millions — 
 (hear, hear) — for the benefit of the Irish landlords— (" Oh " and 
 ''Shame") — wdio, as Mr. Gladstone has shown himself, in the 
 speech which he made in introducing the Land Purchase Bill, 
 have not always had a blameless record in the past. We are 
 told that this enormous liabihty is a duty laid upon us by the 
 misdeeds of our ancestors, that it is an obligation of honour — 
 
 (^'Not at all"); but, then, is there no obligation of 
 honour to that great Protestant minority of one and 
 a-half million, who, at all events in recent times, 
 have never committed any act of oppression, who 
 have never lent themselves to violence or disorder 
 —(cheers)— whose patient industry has contributed 
 more to the prosperity of Ireland than all the agita- 
 tors that ever lived, and who even now are giving, 
 in the shape of taxation, in the shape of enterprise, 
 in the shape of all that can come from enlightened 
 citizenship, as much as all the rest of the population 
 
 put together ? (Cheers.) 
 
 THE LAND PURCHASE BILL. 
 
 I pass on to consider briefly the provisions of the Land Pur- 
 chase Bill, to which I have already had occasion to refer. We 
 are told that this Bill is inseparable from the other, that it is an 
 essential part of the policy of the Government. (Hear, hear.) 
 Why is it inseparable ? Because Mr. Gladstone and the Govern- 
 ment feel that they cannot in honour leave the interests of a 
 small minority who have become objects of dislike to a consider- 
 
( 18 
 
 able portion of the population to a popularly elected body. (Hear, 
 hear.) But, if that is so, I confess I do not see why other 
 minorities are not also entitled to protection. (Hear, hear.) 
 There is the Protestant minority, of which I have already 
 spoken; there are the commercial classes, there are the large 
 farmers— any section of the population which for no reason has 
 become an object of envy or dislike ought not to be handed 
 over without security to the control of a triumphant majority, 
 as to w^hich even those who propose to invest them with this 
 almost unlimited power are obliged to confess their apprehensions 
 and their suspicions. But I want to consider this second Bill 
 rather from the point of view of the British taxpayer. (Hear 
 hear.) I ask you, the representatives of a great industrial com- 
 munity, many of you earning your livelihood by the toil of your 
 own hands, are you willing to pay this vast price for the repeal 
 of the Union? (Loud cries of *'No.") 
 
 WE MAY WANT MONEY FOR OURSELVES. 
 
 Are you ready, at this time of depression— when, 
 for my part, I can see no rift in the clouds— are 
 you willing to anticipate the resources of the 
 country, which may yet be wanted at no distant 
 date to relieve the misery of a suffering people P 
 
 (Hear, hear.) Let us look at two points of the greatest import- 
 ance — what is the liability in which we are asked to involve our- 
 selves, and what is the security w^hich we are asked to take ? 
 What is the liability ? I w^as very glad the other night to hear 
 Mr. Gladstone say that, after considering the objections w'hich 
 I had urged while I was in the Cabinet, he had come to the 
 conclusion that it was desirable to limit the liability, and that 
 he had accordingly reduced the amount of Consols to be issued 
 from 113 millions to 50 millions. I w^as very glad, I say, to 
 hear that ; but I have been thinking it over ever since, and the 
 more I think of it the more I am convinced that the reduction 
 is perfectly illusory. (Hear, hear.) The reduction is not owing 
 to any alteration of the plan of the original Bill to which I 
 
( 19 ) 
 
 objected ; it is a mere alteration of the paper estimate — (hear, 
 hear) — of the amomit which may ultimately be called for. I 
 think I can make that clear to you. 
 
 AT LEAST 150 MILLIONS. 
 
 Mr. Gladstone offers by his Bill an option to every 
 landlord in Ireland to sell his land on certain 
 terms. If the landlords accept it, it will not be 
 50 millions, nor 113 millions; it will be at least 
 
 150 millions. (Sear, hear.) It is quite true that the Bill 
 only proposes a present issue of 50 millions of Consols ; but the 
 liability will remain. (Cheers.) Parliament will be called upon 
 hereafter to do honour to the obligations of the nation, and if 
 more is required more will have to be found. (Hear, hear.) 
 Whether it is £5 that is wanted, or £5,000,000, or £150,000,000, 
 will not depend, if this Bill is passed, upon us, upon Parliament, 
 upon the English and Scotch people — it will depend upon a few 
 hundred landlords in Ireland. If they accept the option we 
 pledge we cannot escape from the obligation. (Hear.) I do not 
 know whether they will accept it or not ; I do not know whether 
 they will think it a sufficiently advantageous offer. I should if 
 I w^ere in their place. (Laughter.) But one thing I am certain 
 of — that if only a part of them take the option we shall have all 
 the worse bargain. 
 
 ON WHAT SECURITY SHALL WE ADVANCE OUR MONEY ? 
 
 Now let US consider what the security is for this 
 operation. The security, in the long run, is the 
 willingness and the ability of the people to pay the 
 
 rents. Well, the payment of rent in Ireland has lately been 
 rather a spasmodic performance, and really I do not See that 
 
 it is probable or reasonable to expect that tenants 
 will pay rents estimated at 20 years' purchase at 
 the present rent at a time when their leaders are 
 telling them, and have been telling them for years, 
 that five years or three years' purchase would be 
 
( 20 ) 
 
 ample for the value of the land. (Hear, hear.) I think 
 
 they are still more unlikely to pay these rents when they re- 
 member, or when somebody reminds them hereafter, that they 
 have been fixed by a foreign authority, by the Parliament at 
 Westminster, which at the same time has adinitted its incompet- 
 ence to deal with other Irish affairs. But that is not all. If 
 you like to be hopeful, if you are more sanguine than I am, you 
 may believe that the tenants will be willing to pay these rents, 
 extorted from them by the decision of the Parliament at West- 
 minster and against the opinions of all their trusted leaders. You 
 may believe that ; but then comes the question, Will they be 
 able to pay them P These rents are fixed upon the prin- 
 ciple of the judicial rent. The judicial rent was established 
 before the recent reduction in produce. I am told that the 
 reduction amounts to from 20 to 30 and 40 per cent, I do not 
 believe we have touched bottom ; I believe the reduction will go 
 on. If the English farmers were sensible enough to open the 
 ports of the Kingdom to the cattle from the United States, 
 to take them as store cattle, that would at once involve an enor- 
 mous reduction in the price that is now being paid for Irish cattle, 
 which alone are allowed to be introduced into the Kingdom for 
 that purpose at the present time. If that reduction goes on, 
 if it continues, as I anticipate it will, I believe there are many 
 cases in which it will be impossible for the tenants to pay the 
 existing rents ; and then what would happen ? Whether it be 
 because they are unwilling, or w^hether it be that they are unable 
 it is not the landlord who will suffer. He will be spending the 
 income derived from British Consols in London or Paris at his 
 
 fancy, and according to his will. But the Irish Parliament, 
 elected by these tenants, existing by their breath, 
 will certainly be called upon, and cannot fail to 
 repudiate the English tribute, and to refuse to pay 
 more than a proportion, at any rate, if it pay any- 
 thing, of the sum which is required as the interest 
 and sinking fund of the debt that will have been 
 created. And then, what is your remedy P 
 
( 21 ) 
 YOU WILL BECOME IRISH LANDLORDS- 
 
 Working men of England and Scotland, where is 
 your remedy P You will be Irish landlords— 
 (laughter)— you wiU havB to evict the tenants, you 
 will have to collect your rents at the point of the 
 bayonet, and I refuse to be a party to such contin- 
 gencies. (Loud and continued cheers.) British credit, built 
 up as it has been by past generations, is a precious reserve to be 
 held for times of need and necessity, and I will not anticipate it 
 for the benefit of Irish landlords. (Cheers.) We also have 
 
 a land question in England; there is a land ques- 
 tion in Scotland ; there is aland question in Wales; 
 and I am inclined to maintain these resources 
 for cases which I think may be even more urgent 
 and more deserving than those of the Irish land- 
 lords. (Cheers.) These differences, which I have endeavoured 
 briefly, but I hope clearly, to explain to you, have compelled me 
 to resign the office which I held in the Government. (A Voice : 
 "It will not be for long.'') If you will believe me, I made a 
 great sacrifice in giving up the opportunity that I thought I held 
 in my hands to carry forward some of the questions in which I 
 have felt deep interest. (Cheers.) I might have perhaps had 
 the honour of introducing a Local Government Bill; of doing 
 something to equahse the burdens of local taxation, which I think 
 at the present time press unfairly on some classes of the rate- 
 payers ; I might have done something to extend that municipal 
 government in which I have always taken so great a pride and so 
 deep an interest ; and, at the same time, I had hoped to provide 
 opportunities for a happier and a better existence for the agricul- 
 tural labourers, who are at once the most numerous and the most 
 necessitous part of our artisan population. (Cheers.) All these 
 things I have surrendered with the deepest pain and regret, but 
 with a sense of overwhelming duty and obligation. (Cheers.) 
 Perhaps I may be allowed to add a word or two as to my 
 
( 22 ) 
 
 present position. I am afraid that the opposition which I feel to 
 the proposals contained in the Land Purchase Bill cannot be 
 met. I think the Billis a bad one. 
 
 THE LAND PURCHASE BILL AND THE HOME RULE BILL 
 LEAD TO SEPARATION. 
 
 I would sooner go out of politics altogether than 
 give my vote to pledge the capital of the country- 
 ay, and the future earnings of every man and woman 
 in the United Kingdom— (hear, hear)— in order to 
 modify the opposition of a small class of Irish pro- 
 prietors to a scheme which, if it remain in its 
 present form, will, I believe, infallibly lead to the 
 separation of Ireland from England. I object, in this 
 
 case, to the risk which we are asked to incur ; I object also to 
 the object for which we are asked to incur that risk. (Hear, 
 hear.) But as regards the Home Kule Bill — the Bill for the 
 better government of Ireland — my opposition is only conditional. 
 (Cheers.) I regret very much that this great measure, involving 
 so vast a change, such enormous risk, so vitally affecting the life 
 of the Kingdom, should have been brought before Parliament 
 without some consultation with the other leaders of the Liberal 
 party and with the members of the Liberal party generally. I 
 think the Bill would have benefited a good deal by fuller con- 
 sideration, both in the Cabinet and in the country — (hear, 
 liear) — but, at the same time, I admit that, having been 
 introduced by so eminent a man as the Prime Minister, 
 it cannot be disregarded. The only question is as to the 
 form which the Bill shall assume, and I think I can show you 
 in a few words that if certain alterations were made all the 
 anomalies which I have described to you, most of the objections 
 which I have taken would disappear. If, to begin vdth, the 
 representation of Ireland at Westminster were maintained on its 
 present footing — (" No," and cheers) — if Irishmen were allowed 
 to vote and to speak on all questions which would specially refer 
 to them, then they would remain an integral part of this 
 
( 23 ) 
 
 Imperial realm, they would have their share in its privileges 
 and their responsibility for its burdens. (Cheers.) In that case 
 the Imperial Parliament would be able to maintain its control 
 of Imperial taxation in Ireland, and for all Imperial purposes 
 the Parliament at Westminster would speak for a United 
 Kingdom. (Hear, hear.) I should like tO 868 the 
 
 case of Ulster met in some form or another. I 
 should be glad if it were found possible— having 
 regard to the great distinctions which I have 
 pointed out of race, religion, and politics— to 
 concede to Ulster a separate Assembly. (Cheers.) 
 
 If those changes were made I think it would be altogether 
 unnecessary to maintain that long list of restrictions and safe- 
 guards and minority representation and curious electoral devices 
 which we have long ago repudiated in our own representative 
 system. (Cheers.) I am told by some of the more ardent advo- 
 cates of the Bill that these are matters for Committee. No, 
 gentlemen, they are matters which clearly affect and would 
 modify the principle of the Bill. I am only a young Par- 
 liamentary hand — (laughter) — but I have had experience enough 
 of the House of Commons to know that if we go into 
 Committee without having secured some assurance from the 
 Government that these or similar amendments will be accepted 
 by them we shall be beaten hopelessly in detail on every point by 
 the superior force which the Government will, in that case, be 
 able to bring against us. I hope — I sincerely hope — that 
 
 Mr. Gladstone— (cheers)— who, I have no doubt, 
 has all these matters fully before him, will see 
 his way to accept these modifications. If he does 
 it is with real gratification and delight that I shall 
 be found once more giving him whatever humble 
 
 support I can — (cheers) — but if not, then my duty is clear, 
 and, at all hazards, I will perform it. (Loud cheers.) I am not 
 going to enter any cave ; I am not going to join any coalition — 
 (cheers) — of discordant elements and parties ; but in the case I 
 have mentioned I shall give an independent, but I hope also a 
 
( 24 ) 
 
 perfectly frank and loyal, opposition to the measures which in 
 my heart and conscience I believe, in their present form, 
 will be disastrous and dangerous to the best 
 interests of the United Kingdom. (Cheers.) Gentle- 
 men, I have completed the statement which I undertook to make 
 to you. I do not"* know whether you will agree or disagree 
 with the views that I have expressed, but I think that, 
 knowing me as you do, at least I may be sure that you 
 will appreciate the motives which have guided my action 
 If I have been fortunate enough in the past to win your 
 confidence and support it has been because you have known that 
 I have been faithful and true to the trust which has been con- 
 fided to me, and you would justly despise and condemn me f 
 now, for the sake of private interests or personal ambition, I 
 were to be false to my convictions and to disregard what I 
 believe to be the vital interests of my country. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 There are some people, no doubt, whose convic- 
 tions and principles sit so lightly upon them that 
 they can swallow them with ease whenever their 
 disappearance becomes convenient. (Laughter.) But 
 
 for my part I prefer to seek example and precedent in the life 
 of the great leader to whom for the first time I am now 
 opposed. In the course of his illustrious career — (cheers) — Mr. 
 Gladstone has on more than one occasion found it necessary to 
 separate himself from a Government whose policy he could not 
 conscientiously approve — (hear, hear) — and I am well assured 
 he would be of all men the last to condemn in others the 
 consistency which, on similar occasions, he has himself so 
 honourably maintained. (Loud cheers.) 
 
 W» Speai^ht & iSon?, Printers, Fetter Lan^t LonAfin 
 
NOV 1983 
 
 BOSTON COLLEGE 
 
 3 9031 028 71477 2 
 
 DATE DUE 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 UNIVERSITY PRODUCTS, INU 
 
 #859-5503