■ - r^ •5^ J5? i « e ^^. 1 ^ ^ (C •S o & JZi 1j ^ _ 2 o 1 ^ g Z5 Q_ fe ° ^ M c .^ m «i •s « o -t-1 s» •*» 8 "** ft u -S - Is § **± = n >} -^ o Modeft and free Conference Betwixt a CONFORMIST *A.nd a NONCONFORMIST, About the prefent Diftempers of SCOTLAND. By a Lover of Truth, And Published by its order. Hebr. XII. Ver. xiv, xv. Follow peace with all men , and bolinefs , without which no man jhall fee the Lord , looking diligently left any man fade of the grace of God, left any root of bittcrnes Jpringing up trouble you > and thereby many be defiled* SS^ Printed in the Year 1671. To the AUTHOR OF THE CON FERENCE. Lthough I judge it no lefs of my concernment then of yours, to be concealed and un- feen in this undertaking; Yet feeing , that I do not captate the empty praife of an arret- ed modefty , I am refolved in liew of your Sta- tioner to the Reader and Friend to the Statisner , to give the following Sheets this direct, and im- mediate adrefs , And to begin with my felf , as your Friend doth with you, really I think I should have had nothing to fay of fuch a nothing, were it not in oppolition to that Character wherewith he pre- tends to honour you. Hefayes, Touareaper- fon of extraordinary Moderation and Pcaceablenefs - And no doubt thefe qualities underftood in their due mediocrity and fubordination , are of no- table value : But that you can allow any difference of opinion but fuch as is incompatible with the peace & * 2 quiet quiet of the Chud) , is an ampliation fo little fa* vourableto truths preference, & foinconfiftent with thefe Scripture intimations of Herefies and divifions through mans corruption inseparably attending it , that I cannot otherwife efteeme it to be extraordinary , then as it is exceflive . If truth do allow, nay require a fynathletick zeal , which error doth no wife warrant 5 to ac- commodate their contradictions by an eafie in- differencie , is more agreeable to the love of this World, thenthe love of God. And verily your Friends excufing the tannefs of fome of your exprefiom , from a zeal that he allow es againjlthat unci) ant able Sprit , which can fuffer nothing that is not exaclly of its own way , is not more calum- nious initsinfinu3tion againft us, whodefire utterly to difclaime felfe conceit in all thir matters, then unjuftly reftrictive of the true zeal of God , no lefs enemy to an irreligious lukewarmnefs , the apparent meafure of your latitude, and the extreme now fo dreadfully prevalent, then an humorous feverityfo little at prefent to be apprehended. But let all who defire to be found 'of a true Chriftian temper feek firft the Kingdome of God , and his righ- teoufnefle, and as his peace and the love of the Brethren cannot be wanting, fo the quiet of the Church is beft fubmitted to his good pleafure. For the occafion of my writing , the account which which your Friend gives of the occafion of yours doth equally juttifie it. The English Dia- logues pleafeyou, and I allure you, both they and tht ir anfwer are difpleafing tome. I re- fled not upon the method of Dialogues j Nay I am fo far from cenfuring it , though I relish it not in thir matters, that I am confident, that had you and your English pattern managed it iin- cerily, it had proven the mine, and not the fup- portof your defign. But finding the English man(o infolently fcornful,as notto reft latisried with an anfwere , which by taking fanctuary in the Act of Indemnity, & other fuch fearful& faint- ing shifts, did rather bewray, then vindicat the commoun caufe, and perceiving, by your little effay , the humors of the unquiet Spirit in both Na- tions ( as you are pleafed to fpeak evill of the up- rightnefTeof fuch who run not with you to the fame excefs of ungodlineiTe ) not to be more the fame , then it is the fame ftrange Spirit of Hy* pocrifie and irrtligion that at prefent abounds fo much in thefe Lands , to the perverting of both truth and righteoufnefle , I was moved by thefe confiderations to make you this free and round reply. Your Friend hyes,youdefigned not vanity by your few sheets, written almoft as bafitly as they could be tranferibed: And the truth is , 1 am (o much convinced of it, that I am moreendinedto a- pologize for the ferioufneffe that I have ufed in * 3 con- confuting fuch a trifling bable , then to purge my endeavours of any fuch fufpicion. Only, be- caufe he faith , Xou wish that every one may fee the weaknefs of the fe grounds upon which fuch Jpeciotuftru- ftures are built, which, when they come to be examined, prove but painted fepulchers, 1 thought it worth my paines,by clear defcriptions,&firme demonftra- tions,both of the folidity ofthe rbundations,and beauty ofthe fuperftru&ure ofthe work of Godi to check the tumor of this infinuat boaiHn^. But in the next place , we have your great de- figne in your fmall Book , and it is, To let fo me well m meaning Veople , who have a love togodlmeffe , fee that Religion is not at all concerned in things wlwein they do concern the mfelves very much, and that in contending for the shell, we are like to lofe the Kernel of Religion. Why herein is a mar- vellous thing,if I may u(e the blind mans words, fmce I think you would-almoft have me to lofe that fight which he had then lately received B while the things wherein we did concerne our felves were fincerily owned and improven, Re- ligion flourished, holineffe was in requeft, pro- fanity was ashamed, & iniquity ftoptits mouthj and llnce by you and your partakers , they were fubverted and decried , wickedneffe only hath exalted it felre, and its blafphemous Impieties and violences have abounded , to the very hor- rour of every ingenuous man; And yet we mull: believe believe that Religion is not at all concerned in the change. And your Friend doth attribute to you the confidence , not only to write, but to di- red: your writing to well - meaning People , Lovers tfgodlineffe. For this effect , 1 shall not antici- pate my performance in the enfuing anfwer; only , as I have fingly aimed at the establish- ment of the Lord's hithfui remnant in this hour of great & manifold temptations^ fo I am hope* full, that eternal life, and the meanes thereof^ the Gofpel and its Ordinances , shall never be fo divided in this Land , as to feparate the things that they and I do contend for , from Religions * real and true intereft : Your Friend fayes, They are but the shell, and not the Kernel o/Religion. And if I may prelTe his lame fimilitudes , I would enquire, whither he call's them fo be- caufe of their ufe for confervation , or their fu- perfluity when broken off .? And though it be manifcft , that this later fenfe can only warrand his undervalue , and is indeed a proper allufion for fuch who have not flood to devoure that which is holy, and after vowes to make enquirie; Yet I am arTured, that unto his fecond thoughts its abfurdity will appear fo palpable , as by* for- cing him to the firft meaning , it will conftraia him rather to contradift his aflerting of Religi- ous inconcernment in thefe matters , being the fpecial means of its prefervation > then pro- * 4 phanely phanely to defpife them as reje<£hneous trifles. The language and manner of my writing is fuch , as I conceived to be mod: proper for my purpofe; if the profecution of your particulari- ties , fpecially in an eiTay , pretended indeed to be equally managed > but without queftion un- equally defigned, for the parties therein con- tending , prove irkfome and tedious to others, as it hath been to my felf, I have no Apologie, bur the neceflity of a full reply, afwel to deliver the true Non - Conformift from your difinge- nuous impo(ings,as to refute your Conformift 's Objections. As for other matters, I referr al! to the Reader. There is one thing only I would intreat, and that is, that if in the perufal of what I have written', you do find anything that may move you again to take up your pen, you would not imploy it in any further continuation of this dramatickwayof fcribling : But feeing truth's intereft is that which both of us ought to re- gard, let the differences in controverfie be fairly ftated, propofitions clearly drawn forth, and by you either defended or impugned, according to the exigence ofyourcaufe, andlpromife you either my aiTent , or the reafons of my dif- fent without paflionor partiality. Now as to your language and manner of writing, your Friend fayts, It is accommodated to the fe meaner edacities , who are mofi apt to be abufed , by fuch as care care not<> nay, which is very fad> but too true, wish not Religion nor godlineffeto profperin the hands of thofe who differ from them in opinion about external things , which are not of great moment. Sir , this is a charge of too high an import to be let flye at randome. There are , I confeile, amonglt us, who do apprehend , that both the opinions and practices of you and your Aflociats do dire&ly tend to the debauching of Conference , by the falfe pretences and undue extenfions of Civil Obedience and Allegeance , the perverting and deftroying of Gofpel Ordinances , not only of Church-government and a fent Miniftry , but even of the two Sacraments, by turning their divine inftitution into ecclefiaftick cuftome , and laftly, to the fubverting of the very founda- tion , Justification through faith in Jefus Chrift, by the fupera Jding of our own to his righteouf- neiTe,and who therefore juftly fearing that your colouring and covering of thefemoft momen- tous points , as if different opinions about things externall were all thecontroverfie , to be only a turning of things upflde down , and a feeking deep to hide your Counfel from the Lord , do wish that the Lords people may bevvar offuch deceivers , fpecially , feeing their universal perjury and intruGon, their common profanity and ordinary inefficiency , are obvious to all men : But that there are any of us, who care * 5 not, not, nay> wish not Religion toprofper, even in the manner here reprefented , is not more groundlefle , then it is rnoft certain, that the profpering of Religion andgodlinefle would be the moft efFe&ual mean both to ruine your courfe , and eftablish what me maintain. But let us hear how your Friend makes out his accufation ; and he faith , it may appear from their ferfwadingpoor fouls to take for a mark.ofz.eal that which w all chriftian Nations is lookt on as a very great mar tyf impiety, to wit>x\ox. going to Church. A mighty convi&ion, and worthy to be write in greater letters. But where did he learn, that not going to Church , in the meaning only perti- nent to his reflection , viz.. our not going to the houfe appointed indeed for publick divine worship , but invaded and ufurped by perju- rious Intruders , for the mod part, as palpa- bly wicked and naughty as their intrufion is undeniable , is lookt on in all Chriftian Na- tions as a great mark of impiety ? Or how will he make it out , that we perfwade not going to Church , that is , to the aflembling of our felves together for the more folemn worship and ado- ration of God , and hearing of our lawful Paf- tors, though in corners, as God gives oppor- tunity , which is moft certainly all whereunto Chriftianity doth oblidge ? Let him prove either , and then let him boaft himfelf : But feeing feeing either of thefe demands muft of neceffity finke him into perpetual (ilence, how foolishly doth he fecondhis allegeances?Hefubjoynes, that you mean no prejudice to any person in writing of it (viz. J your Dialogue s,& that it is *nly pu- blished to informe fincere people. Whither it be (o or not, let the work bear witnefsj as for my intention in anfwering , I have already declar- ed it , and I hope the anfwer it felfe will not contradict, I wish indeed it had been more ti- mous : But as J affect not bafty productions, fo there are many other reafons, eafily 1 uppofible for the delay ; if it may give any light for eftablishment in this evil time, I know it is not yet unfeafonable : And in this (ingle 3nd earnefi: defire, I recommend it to all that love our righteous Caufe, and wait for the Lords appearance. & A. A short INDEX Of the chief things handled in this Treatife. DIAL. I. NOn - Conformifts vindicated from foine groundlefTe and odious charges fuggefted in the entne. Pag. 2,3, &c. The found &clear ruleforChriftiar practice in the point of Separation , with the true reafon why Non - Conformifts can- not join with Curats. 6, &c. The work of God which Non - Conformifts owne no Rebellion. 9 Whether that argument , taken from the Prophets their not exhor- ting to Popular Reformation doth militat againft Subjects their .lighting for Religion. 10 Pofitnre groands from Scripture warranding Subjects to defend Re- ligion by armes 11, 12, &c. The Peoples obligation to Popular Reform arion cleared. 1 6 The example of the CMaccabees a good ground for Peoples main- taining Religion by armes. 18,19 The invalid ty of thefe Objections, taken from the mortifying defign of Religion and our Lords beginning the Gofpel with fuf- fenng j diicovered. 2 e, 2 1 , &c. Whether that injunction of our Saviours to hisDifciples not to draw forhim, and his words to Pilat , John. 18.36* doth militat a- gainft the defending of Religion by Armes. 2 4, &c. Whether the Practice of the Primitive Chriftians be a fufficient ar- gument to condemn fighting for Religion. 2 9,3 o Why N. C cannotkeep the Anniverfary day. 3 2 The Publick courfe againft the adverfaries of the Covenant & Work of Reformation vindicated from the Calumny of Cruelty and ri- gor , and proven to be moft rational and righteous. ? 4 > 3 5 A short account of the barbarous and inhumane Cruelty of thePre- Iats and their party, againft innocent Non -Conformifts. 36 Minifters cleared from that charge of MedlingtnState orPub!ick"fm fairs. 3 9 Superftition how unjuftly charged upon N. C. 41, &c. DIAL. II. Adifcovery of the evil of the new convenient contrivance of Re- lcom 5i Kirk - Seffions vindicated. 5 4> 5 5 Thfir excellent ufe for fuppreftingungodlinefs. • _ 5 7 The Minifters liberty and manner of reproving fin vindicated, alio their cariage towa rd the late King. It"*. Their INDEX. Theit Preaching vind icated. <• Commi:nions vindicated. 67 Of the pofture iu time of publick Trayer. 7« Family Worship and private meetings vindicated. 7 1, &c. The Divifions charged upon N. 0, . whence they did proceed. 7 5 DIAL. III. DResbytery and Prelacy how falfly faid to be only mere diftin- guishing names 73 The prefent loofer.efs moft unjuftly charged upon Non- Confor- ming. 7f Unanswerable arguments againft Epifcopacie. 84 Whether this Title of hard he due to Bishops. 8 5 That Scripture 1. Ptc 5. 3. cleared from the falfe Gloffes of Adver- faries. 87, &c* The Jus T)hinum that Presbyterians plead for, together with thefe things that do fairly exhibite the Platform of Presbyterian Go- vernment. 90, &c' Of Lay - Elders. 96, &c Of Deacons. 99 OfDiaconefTes. tor OfEvangelifts. ioj Of rht Claflkal Subordination of Seflions to Presbyteries, &c. 104 OfDifciplineand whether the Penitence of Lent , the Table altar- vvayes, and officiating in a furplice maybe as lawfully appointed by the Church, as the circumflances of publick repentance to wit , Co many dayes, aplace of repentance and the ufe of Sack- cloath for fcandalous perfons. 109, &c» Of the dectee of the firft Council at Jerufalem. 11; Of the washing of Feer,where you have the Conformift'sdefign off refolving the neceffity of Sacraments into the arbitrement of tho Church difcovercd . 1 1 5 ,&c«' Anointing the fick with oyl why not ufed by N. C. ■ u 7 Of the change of the Sabbath. j 1 9 Whether the Scriptures contain direct Rules for the ChurchesPolicy which is wholly Ecclefiaftick. 1 2 1 Of the Kingdom of Chrift, 5c how the Officers, Laws , Cenfures and Order of his Houle are by himfelf eftablished. 126, Sec. Whether the Angels of the Churches affoord any ground for Bif- hops . 144 The plea of Antiquity for Bishops , together with a short delinea- tion of the rife , progref* and product of Prelacy in the firft Church w. i44> &c, DIAL, INDEX- DIAL. IIII. SUbmiffion to, and complyance with , the prefcnt Prelatick Go- vernment cannot be without fin. 1 6 5 Whether 'Paul's conforming to Jews and Gentiles doth enforce Compliance with Prelacie. 166,167, &c. Whether it be unfufferable Peevishnefs , if the Magiftrate enjoin a thing, declaring it free in itfelf , and only neceflary becaufe com- manded, upon that fcore to refufe obedience. 170 Of Chriftian Liberty , and wherein it ftands. 1 74 Prelatick exactions high impingements upon Chriftian Liberty. 175 Why Non-Conformift's cannotjoine in Prelatick Courts for Church Difcipline. 1 8 1, r 8 2, & ? 7 6, &c. The Confoimift's reafbning for joining anfwered, where that Quek tion, why ought we not to fubmit to the Bishops, as wel as to che late Ufurpers in the State ? Is fully anfwered.- 182, &c» The juft ground People have of/blowning Curats , and charging them, with that Schifme whereof they would make N.C. guil- ty. 189, 190 The Conformifts arguments for owning and hearing Curats fully anfwered. i92,-8cc. How and in what cafes Children are bound by their Fathers Oath. 2os,&c, That charge of breach of Covenant in fbme things, viz. filence and not declaring againft the Apoftacy, Tyranny and Perjury of theUfurpers, and a faint giving over to pray for the King, anfwer- ed. 219,220 The National Covenant vindicated. 222 &c. Whether the Laws annulling the Covenant doth loofe its obligation, where you have a plain account of the Nature 6c obligation both of Vows and Laws. 230, 8cc. The Conform ift's allegations for juftifying the King's fertingupof Prelacie falfe and calumnious. 236 DIAL. V. npEe grofnefs of the Conformist's perfwafion of extemporary •*■ prayer redargued. 244 ThatQneftion about the compofing and impofing Set-forms fully handled, 246, &c. The Conformifts reafoning againft extemporary Prayer aufwer ed. 258 Whether ringing Pfalms and Scripture-fongs be a reftraining of the Spirit. 2 7 it C INDEX. Why all DayicTs Pfalms is ufed in Praifing, together with the right way of finging Pialms-prayers. 2 74 ©f the English Liturgie. 28 5 , &c. Of the 5 .Articles of Tertb. z 8 8, &c. DIAL. VI. ANent the name and Principles oiLatttudinarians. 3 05 , 306 The opinion of the Author of the Dialogues anent Jollification axamined and found unfound. 3 1 3 3 &<:• The men of the Latitude more inclineable to favour Papifts} ArmU wans or any Sect or party , rather then Confcientious Non- Conformifts. 3 4 J »;3 46, &c DIAL. VII. "tff/Hether the Conformift doth fufficiently purge himfelf of'SW- * manifme , Popery and oTrminianifme. 365, 366 Non - Conformifts unjuftly charged with the progrels of Quakf- rtfme. 369,37c Whether the P.rayers and actions of the Prelatick Conformifts evi- dence any tendernefs of Love towards Non-CovfCrmifts, 3 7 8,6cc. ^aphtafi's Doctrine vindicated , fpecially his Doctrine uponPfo- neas his Act. 382, &c. The Surveyer's calumnies and objections againft Nrf>hulixemov- ed. 3 9 35&C. That Doflrine concerning private Perfons rheir punishing of Crimes in cafe of the Supinneis of the Magiftrat cleared. 40 r> 402 That Religion was maintained by refiftance, is no Vulgar error, but a thing undenyable, 1 . From the IFaldenfcs their refilling of the King of France. 418, 5cc. a. From the 'Bohemian wars under Zifia, 424, &c< •5 . From the wars in Germany. 427, 428 4. ¥ rom Sweden. 44* 5 . From the Practice ofHebetia and Gentvt. 44 z 6. From the Pra&ice of Bafile. 444 7. From the wais in the Netherlands. 446,&c. 8. From the Civil wars of France. 454 That allegear.ee, that the Church of Scotland was condemned by tbo Churches abroad , for her maintaining Reformation by ^Armes , shown to be falfe. 460,461 That the Pop's uftrpation is not abolished in Brittain and lrlaud>b\xt in effect only transferred from him to the King. Of the Supremacy , and whether it takes away the Churches inrrin- ieck power. 47*, 47 3 Argtuiearsforthe^»prfw*r/fanXwered, 479 What INDEX. What account is to be had of the Indulgence as flowing from the Sa- premacie. 487 Whether there can be an accommodation with the prefent Prela- tick party. 4 9 J, 494 Whether Teace , Love and Charity be due to Conformifts. 496 READER, Ere thou read correct with a pen thefe Errata as foUovveriu PAg. 9. Lin. 6. read mightily, p. 17.1.18. r.dire of the fruitlefs obfervacion, and tedious profecutionof the many impertinencies incident to fuch a practice : and therefore , as you are not to expect my particular noticing of the high pretenfions , weak reply es 3 fainc cedings, ridiculous evafionsj plain concerTions and flat- tering infinuationsj whereunto you prompt your Pup- A pet- f«0 hi IKK ben< % The firft Dialogue pet-non-conformift. either for youi own advantage? o diverfion ; fo, in the tracing of thefe things that leem< to be more ferious and important-, in your Dialogues I promife you all the candor andcalmnefs whereof ]1 am capable : Yea , though your double dealing in thi< caule (which not content to impugne as a Coniormift you go about alio as a Non- conforming to betray) migh: weli warrant a more sharpe and large animad- version , both upon your end and method ; yet, being only defirous or r ruths vindication , and in the occur- rence oi fo many temptations juftly jealous of my own! t inrirmitie, I do here francklie ceafefrom, and lay alide all wrath and bitternefs , that 1 (in not 7- and shall, as fincerely & diftinctly as I can 3 review and anfwere your reafoningsj as they ly. Before you fall to your direft accufations , you fug- geft i. That the Non-conformijts do boafl of their way as the Glory* Z.That, their Miniflers tell them only of Chrifls death > which is not to preach him. $ . That they fiudy more to convince them of the need of Chrifls Rjghteoufnefs, then of having any of their own. 4. That Non~conformiJis t\m\ they may quite the Communion of the Church , if, in their epinion, not in the truth* in every point. 5. That informer times they reprefied fomefins , Jpecially of the flefli 3 but fcarcely in a Gojpel way : and as for other fins * were very gentle to them \ Nay were themfehes guiltie of them. Sir> were I not very loath to irritate you intheentrie, I would tell you , that to commence your conference , with fuch groundlefs , odious and incoherent hints , which you dare not politively affirme, is more agree- able to a defign of prejudice , then to the charitie you fo amply proreiTe. But to particulars, & to the firs!, that the Non-conjormifis do boafl of their way as the Glo- ry. 1. We blefs our God our Glory , who hath made all the manifeftations and means of his Grace Glori. ous Anfvvered. * ous : thefe are the overflowings of the excellent Glo- ry, by the ftreames whereot all our glorywgs and praifes ought to be carried back to, concentred in, and fwallowed up of the Ocean- fountain , whence they proceed. 2. The Scripture is plain, that Jefus Chrift the Prince of Gloria, in the revelation of his Glorious Gofpel, hath made the miniftration thereof fo farre to exceed in Glory, that, even he himfeli accounteth the MeflTengers thereof his Glory. Whether thefe things be not fufficient to juftifie both the Non-conformifts boafting and regrete, needeth not my afl'ertion. Sure I am , it a pure Miniftrie , not modelled by the policy and pi ide of man, but fingly fquaredtoour Lords in- ftitution ; if able Mimfters of the New Teftament declaring all the Counfel of God , and imparting the fulnefs of the bleliing of the Gofpel 3 And laftly, if the growing and Multiplying of the word of God, and his peoples defire after , and rejoicing in it, have any luftre of this Glory, the prefent fad cataftrophe, whereby all thefe have been fo wickedly and wofully changed to their contraries , may more juftly move every con- cerned & ferious foul to a lamentation for the depart- ed glory, then thefe occafions that firft produced thac complaint. If you judge thefe to be fwelling words of bamie, remember that, as I do fpeak the true Non- conforming fo it is your part, by this your conference more folidly to redargue him. • The fecond thing you fuggeft . is , that the Non-con- ■ forming Minijiers tell us only of Chrift s death which 16 not to preach Chrift. Sir, this allegeance, short as it is , prefents it felf with a difguft , that I can fcarce exprcfsj Not that I think the Non-conformifts are thereby in the leaft noted : Nay, on the contrarie, I am confident that , in vvhatfoever fenfe you are able to render the accufation pertinent, the Non-conformifts A 2 a;e 4, The firft Dialogue are moft free to deny it, and that with the univerfall evidence of all their unprejudicate hearers, and the unanimous teftimony of all their confeifions and writ- ings extant : And whether this be more to their ad- vantage, or your dishonour 5 I hope you willconfi- der : But that which in my heart I deteft , is to hear the glorious fubjeft of the precious death of Chrift fo both flighted , and narrowed within its Scriptural ac- ceptation, by fuch a Cold reftriElhe. Jf the Apoftle Paul defired to know nothing but Chrift and him cru- cified, and Gloryed only in his Crofs , If the death of Chrift dorh necelTarily fuppofe \ and did certainly con- firme his preceeding Teftament \ nay , if in the Go- fpel it be often mentioned , as the fubftance and root of all , had you no fitter words for your intended ac- cufationof N.C. then that they tell us only of Chrifts death? I know your meaning :7^. That to tell peo- ple onelv of an interefl in Chrift , while they are ftr angers to his Laws and Gofpel , is to deceive them, is as found, as it is untruly charged upon the Non-con- formifts. Neither would I have taxed an innocent lapfe in the phrafe obferved; but its too vifible tenden- cies the difcredite of the doctrine of J unification by thebloud of Chrift , and to the new rationall Me- thod of more exalting our righteoufnefs , to an equa- lity with his merit , then pretfing it in Conformity to his life and love? is thecaufeofmvaverfion. The Kon conformifts therefore do indeed tell us of the death of our Lord Jefus , not with your ill appropriat and reftringent onh \ but do preach to us al waves and principally this doctrine of his Crofs , as that where- by , both the great mean of our reconciliation ) and the ftrongeft motive, belt pattern, and moft certain aflurance of our dying unto fin and living unto God (wherein our San&ification confifts ) are held forth. 3- You Anfwered. 5 3. You fay, that youfeare the Non-conformifls do Jludv wore to convince us of the need of Chrifts RJgb- teoufiufs, then of having any of our own, 'Tis anfwer- ed , this your fuggeftion is a great confirmation of my reflection on your laft paflage : I have already shewed , that the tear whereby you usher it in , hath no reall nor palpable ground , none were more fe- rious . found and power ful3 in the preffing of holinefs, then the men you would accufe ; Neither do I ftand to appeal to the fruices of their Miniftery, notwithftand- ing or your cavilling at our practice ; but I have a. greater fear of your fear , that it prove only proud reafon , fpurning at the righteoufnss of Jefus Chrift, and afpiring to adde a Mantifja , an addition of your own , to his fole purchafe : if I could conceive you a mantopropofe feares , both gioundlefs and defign- Iefs> I might be judged uncharitable; but the cer- tainty of the firft,by removing the fecond , too plainly juftifles my appreheniion : befide your fear is fo foli- citous for your own righteoufnes , that it doth not fo much as allow the righteoufnefs of Jefus Chriftto be more prefled • and yet you know that not only his righteoufnes , as being the price 5 fpring and accep- tation of ours , doth therefore acclaimean infinite preference , but that the conviction of its neceliity , by reafon of the untoward reluctancie of the pride of reafon , and blindnefs of unbeleefe , doth require 2 more powerful perfwafion. And therefore I muft again tell you that I almoftfufpect.yourinfinuationofa very deep tincture of a greater Sophi,lrie then that which you give warning againft ; but feing you do profefs to beleeve that Chrtfl came to lav down hit life a ran* fame for our fms : and Non • conform ifts are perfwad- ed ? that without holinefs we Jhatl never fee the face of God , it is certainly the better part formetoap- A 3 plaud 6 The firft Dialogue plaudyour good agreement: Only chat you maybe | affuredof this neceilarie holine(Te , and alio of itsac- ! ccptance, fee that you hold faft Jefus Chnft as the fole foundation ; for he it is who of God is made un- to us Wisdom 3 and Righteoufnes j and Sancuficanon, and Redemption. And remember , that although Konoconformiils love not to talk much of their o ;-.-n righteoulneffe > at heft both freely beftoued , and, as in us Viatorcs-) while we are in the wav , fuch , as of it felf ? can no wayes endure the confuming lire of di- vine jealoufie ; yet they not only fubfcribe to your neceilityof holineffe , but further do beleeve with joy , that it is impoffible for any man to lean truely and entirelyunto Chrift , who doth not imbrace him, and have him both his Redeemer, Lawgiver and San- airier. 4. Youfuggeft, thatNon-conformips thinly, they may quite the communion of the Church 5 Ij , in their opinion } not in the truth * in every point : at leaft you will have this to be the cafe > betwixt you and your Non-conformift, Really might it not offend your reverence , I would remit you to Ej>h> 4. 25. and abide the reproof of the 26. without more an- fwer,but,becaufe 'tis like the fottishnefie of the perfon you confer with , hath induced you to this miftake , beleeve mem name of all true Non-conformifts > that as thev do not think they may quite the Communion of the Church , if in their opinion , not in the truth , unlefs the difference be both reall , & in proft ilion & practice^fo it is not every reall difference, in profeiHon or practice, that they hold to be a fuflkient caufe ; Nor do they judge that , even the caufe being fuffi- cient , the fepar^tion should be al wayes carried to the extremity; but the found and clear rule which they propofe for Chriftian practice in this matter is , that where Anfwered. 7 where the controverted difference is fuch > as would render a conjunction therein either (infill or conta- gious , then a juft and proportionat reparation , pre- cifely and with all tendernefs , Commenfurate to the exigence, isthefafer courfe. As tor your conceit, ftaung the caufe of Separation , upon difference of opinion , in a truth of greater importance then the article of our faith , the Catholic!^ Church , the commwiion of Saints ; theexamining of it, by what I havefaid, plainly difcovers both its miftake and ambiguiiie. In the next place let me tell vouinbehalr of honeft Non-conformifts, that the true reafon of their prefeuc withdrawing is none other then what vou allow : That they account themselves bound to obey God, in •adhering to their true Paftors, and difpwning Intrud- ing- hirelings , rather then man commanding the contraire. I will not di^refs to a more particular mqui- rie , fince you are pleaied to carry your Non confor- ming by it : but if you had made him give this anfwer together with a clear condefcendence , I doubt not but either Tie or I had made it out ; I might here take notice how finoothly and per fvvadedly you fuppofe > that Non-conformifts do feparate from the Church, although they for the moft part think your concei ing your pai tie to be the Church , no better founded then the reft of your ufurpations , but becaufe this point "will againeoccurre I proceed to your 5th. hint , that in former, times Non-cojrormijs reprefled fome fin* fpcciatlj thefe of the flefl^ , but fcarce in a Gofpel way , and 1 or other fins > were very gentle to them , nay , were them fives guilt ie of them. Sir, your fuggeftion being fo general and groundlefs , I only wish that its latter part were as void of malice , as its former is farre from truth : I know that all men are finners , and heartily defire that allNon-conformifts may beferiouf- A 4 ly 8 The firft Dialogue fly warned > throughly and impartially to fearch , and examine their wayes , and unfainedly to repent of their tranfgreffions . Nay , though the frequencie and high import of your general 1 accufations render the fin* ceritie of your meeknes , in forbearing particulars? many ■wayes fufpe&ed $ yet I urge it not : Only remember, that as I difown the Patrocinie > either of mens fail- ings or infirmities 3 fo I do as little hold the work of I God chargeable with any fuch extrinfick and acciden- tal! objections , but fliould thy impudence make men hold their peace , and when thou mockefl Jhall no man mal^e thee afhamed, When you offered to reflect upon the infirmities and failings of formertimes, niight not, and should not, the prefent irreligion andwicked- nefTe, every were abounding, which are not only connived at by your Church- men , but do vifiblygo forth from them into all the Land (tor they commit lewdnefie and w all-in lies , they flrengthen alfo the hands of evil doers , that none doth return* Jrom his wichedneffe) have confounded you unto filence? Certainly this your procedour cannot but fuggeft to all fober men , that too applicable pafiage of the Gofpel , And why beboldeji thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye , but confidereft not the beam that is in thine own eye*. Thou hypocrite , firft caft out the beam out of thine own eve, and then fliak thou fee clearly to caft out the mote out of thy bro- thers eye . And thus, Sir? I am arrived at your plain and Cet rm- pugnation of the N. C. courfes : And to begin the matter, vou make your N. C. in placeof afolidre- prefentation of the truth controverted , rap out an in- digefted heap of Pompous titles , and, by this perfo- nat bluftering , you take the occafion , very kindly to commend your own perfonall modeftie : whether this be not more invidious then ingenuous dealing iet others Anfwered. 9 others judge; certainly if you had ufedthat candor which you profefie, your N. C. would have told you , that the work of God we defire to own , is that inlightning grace , and aliifting prefence of God , whereby , after that the Lord had cauied his people to receive the truth in ics power, he mightly ftirred them up , and inabled them to refift the growing cor- ruptions , and shake off the heavieyokeof wicked Prelacie; to reftore and eftablish his ordinances , fpe- cially the Mimftene, and Government of his Church, in purine; to maintain and defend the fameagainft the violence of Adverfaries; and to direct all theie en- deavours and attainments to the advancement of our Lords Kingdom, over the hearts and conferences of men , and the profpering of his pleafure in thefe Lands , and that by fuch righteous means and me- thods,as are clearly warranted and appro ven, by Scrip- ture , Reafon and many uncontroverted precedents : This is the truth your Non- con form ift ought to have witnefled^ not more confirmed by the publick writ- ings and actings of thefe times, then indelebly fealed in the hearts, and by the experiences of many thou- fands of the feekers of God:, but feing; I am aftricted to follow you , I returne to your objections. And firfi • you fay , T^ebcllkn nuts the Soul of our whole work.) {your Covenant a Bond to cement w in it, &, in an excefs of faire dealing , not queftioning the particular merit of the hypotheie of our caufe , you demand one place in boththeTeftaments,warrantingSubjefts their fighting for Religion, & fay plainly you can bring ma- ny againft it. Sir, if you had thought it convenient, I judge it was proper foryou : todifprove, from Scrip- ture, Subjects their righting for Religion ,& not to re- quire your Non-conformift to prove it , for feing you know thztquafimt juris permOJivi, fuch things ds law and A 5 right io The firfl: Dialogue right permit) if not prohibited, a. eiiirficiently under-. I flood to be permitted any N. C. by an undeniable i fubfutnption may eafily evert your argument . If a miferable Melancholian, falling mdifguft with certain necelTary means of life , should affi/me that it is un- lawful to ufe them, becaufe he finds not one place m either T-ftaments exprefiy warranting it, would you account his reafonin^ conclufive? I am confident you would not : wherefore then do you urge us with his dreams % Now your negative objection a Tejlim monio negato , from a negative Tejiimonie , as they lay > being fuch a notorious faliacie , I need fay nothing to what you adde of the Scriptures (ilence, of the Jews & Ifraelites their not rifmg up againft their apoftat idola* trous Princes, much lefs can their .omitting what they might and ought to have done be of any import . If you could bring an example from Scripture of a King, polluting the Sanctuary ,. and " the people offering to oppofe him , retrained either by rational perfwaiion, or the Lords plain prohibition > that pnly were ap- pofite to your purpofe. But you fay , 7$ie faithfull Prophets their not exhorting to popular Reformation > or re lifting Princes , doth evidently how that the o- miffion of it mm no fin. 3Tis anfwered ,. to make this argument better then your laft , it is, not. enough to alleage , that the Prophets did not provockto fuch courfes , unlefs you adde , that they did induftrioufly forbear foto do, even in its feafbn. You know fo well the neceffity and beautie of tide apd feafon to, every purpofe and work i that your inconfideratnefTe in this point is fcarcely excufable . The Scripture tells us moft frequently of the perverfnefle and bent- nefs of that peoples heart to Idolatrie and Rebellion againft God; And no doubt in publick defections they were either the Kings entifers, as Hofiy. 3 . or did willingly Anfwered. t i willingly walk after the Commandment. Hof. 5. 1 1. What wonder then if the Prophets did forbear to ply them with any fuch exprefle exhortation , let be, that you should account their fimple omi(Jion , as you lovetofpeak , or rather the Scriptures fiience in the thing, of any force: And heie I cannot but note the une quail dealing of the men of your perfvvafion , who notwithstanding of their clamorous aigumgs from the fiience of the Prophets, againft Subject, their tak- ing Armes $ Yet, when , in the cafe or the ten Tribes their ialiin^ away from R^cboboam , by them con- demned for Rebellion; by others juftifiedas warrant- able , they are prefled, not with a bare negative fi- ience, which is all that you object , but with a fi- ience of reproof, circumftantiat with all that could render tf fignificant , they wave it as of no ftren^th. But left you should think me too rigid, in infilling only againft your methods , I proceed to give you , though not obliged , a pofuive return to your de- mand , and to shew you fome of the pofitive war- rants that 1 finde in Sripture , for Subjects their figh- ting for Religion , and although, as doubtful of the old Teftament , you feemtoaileviat its teftimonyby terming its difpenfation more carnall and fierie •, yet, I hope, you are perfwaded , that change of difpen- fations doth no wayes alter the truth and righceouf- neifeof God The firfl ground therefore which J take from Scrip- ture , is , from the Law of Mofes , where I finde the keeping of the Lords Covenant not only injoined to thePeopleoflfrael , as one bodyincorporat , under the higheft peri wafives , and ftrongeft Sanctions thai can be conceived , and eftablished to be their fupreme Law ; but alfo its vindication and execution recom- mended to them > in fuch a manner as doth clear- n The firft Dialogue ly evince, that it was th-^ conftant dutie of the faith- ful amongft them , all other regards fet aiiae , even by force , to have aflertcd and maintained it : If [dm populi , tbefafoy of the people , under the interpretative notion and force of Supremo. Lext Soveraigne Law , have in all juft exigences , in all ages , amongft all Nations , licenfed and warranted a defenfive refiftance and controll againft their King and Rulers , can Reli- gion , infinitly preferable in it felf , and confirmed by fuchan exprefle Law , be thought deftitute of this prerogative i It is in vain to alleageadrfparitie from the inconfiftencie of carnall weapons with the fpiri- tuality of Religion,this is already obviat by the Lords own determination Deut. 13. 1 2. If Ifrael was to animadvert with the fword againft any city turning alide to Idolatrie , can we doubt that it was lawful for them, in the fame manner , to defend the true wor- ship? Do not recurre and fay it was certainly law- full in many cafes , but not againft the Prince ? For, if you allowReligion this weapon, I have already prov- ed its right and privilege , by a higher title , and clearer evidence , then any other received caufe of de- fence can pretend to : But if you utterly difallow de- fensive armes againft the Powers, you deftroy Nature, denyReafon, contradict Scripture , pervert the fub- ordination of Laws, preferre midfes to their end , and repugne to the unanimous confent ofailNations,as you may elfwhere underftand. The next ground I alleage , is from Deut. 17. vers 18. 19. Where you have the Law of the Kingdome delivered and committed to the people, and in it an exprefs provilion , that the King to be fet up , should keep all the words of this Law -> and thefe ftatutes to do them : whence I inferre , that , as the delivering of the Law to the people doth undeniably import , that Anfwered. 1 3 that they were to be its keepers and exaftors ; fo the Prince his deportment , in conformity to this part of it) did in fuch manner belong to their cognition and overfight , as he could not , inifune, without dan. ger of punishment, mal-verfe, n uchlefs lubvert Re- ligion, and perfecuteits true ProfeiTors without con- trol. The only difficulty in this argument is , whe- ther the tuition and cuftodie of this Law be, by its ad- drefle,intrufted to the people? I may not ftand upon long elucidations , but if you confider i. That there is not an jota of the Law of God in vain. 2. That this directing of the Law to the people can have no other fignification. And 3, That both the continued tenor or the words . and the juft Analogie of reafon , mult make the overfight appertain to them, to whom the election , and fetting up is fo expreflely given, your hefitation , if prevalent , can only appeare ob- ftinacie. 3. As the frequencie or infrequencie of inftances doth wholly depend upon matter of fafr; fo one clear- ly found in Scripture, I know, will be to you as a a thoufand I shall therefore content my felf with the cafe and practice of Libnnh. This citie being a citie ofjud.ih, andalfoof Prielts, Jof.zi. 12. inthe reign of Iehoram , a wicked and idolatrous Prince , and one who compelled ludah to the like abomina- tions , revolted from under his hand, becaufe he had forfaktn the Lord God of his fathers. Say not as the Surv. of N. profanely alleageth , that this was a citie of Priefts feditiouflv inclined , or that the revolt was only providentiall , like to that of Edom , and not lawful , by reafon of the Kings apoftafie. If you but read the Text , bearing that Edoms revolt was from under the hand of Judah, without any motive ■annexed ; And then, in a diftinft Period , mentioning Ljbrmhs 14 The firft Dialogue Libnahs to have been from \xcAzx.Jeiiorarns hand, (not Judahs, intimating plainly their refiftance to an Idola- trous Tyranne, without any Apoftafic from the Com- mon-w eakh, which Edom did make j and becaufe he had foiiaken the Lord? you will diicover both his un- fincere handling of Scripture, and the clear evidence of tins paflage, Ipecially if you remember, that there- after under ojtter Kings , we find Liinah returned to her fubii&ion , and affoorded a wife to good Jcfiah. If it were neeafull to fuperadde more examples , I might adde another Scnpture,2 Chron,z$.2y. Where you may read how alter that uAma^uih did turne away from following the Lcri3they made a confpracie againft him in JtrufaUm , and he fled to Lach'ih : but they fent to Lacpi^ after him , and treated him more fe- verely then I iove to mention : and realiy were not thisftorietoo tragicall for metodipin, the jufticeof thecaufe, the generality of the concurrence, and the impunitieofthe actors, fpecially adverting to the dif- ference of this cafe from that of the Fathers exit , may be fo evidently held out from Scripture, to the ad- vantage of my aiTertion ? that any reply ■> which you could make from the application of a dubious word> Confpiracie , would prove a poor reliefe. With thefe might alfobe remembred KmgU&ab's elevation in z pretended Supremacie , and his invaiive attempt of the Priefts office 5 with the noble refjfbnce made by A%a- riah and the fourfcore valiant Priefts , who went in after and with flood him. 'Tis true it broke out into force upon a fecond occafion which I think I cannot fo fair- ly urge , yet if you coniider their number , character , and peremptorie manner of fpeech,fo particularly not- ed by the Spirit of God ? 1 doubt not but you will grant that the fame force was very agreeable to, if not influenced by, their firft refclucion, but it is enough. 4. Though Anfwered. i$ 4. Though I have already told you j that the Pro- phets their noc provoking unto popular Reformations is no argument for you, unlefs you could reprefenc their omiilion in an opportune feafon , as well as a clear exigent , yet now J further adde , that the fre- quent exhortations made by the Prophets to both King and People , as , inthefirft place, they have 2 relpect to every ones proper ftation , fo , by reafon of their principal intendment of the great end , to which all Politick degrees and their order are fubordinate and do referre , in the dericiencie or pei verfion of the more immediate midies, they muft of neceffity lay a fubiidiary obligation upon the people , as fucce- daneous,in that exigence.If the nature of this difcourfe did allow me to lnbrge, 1 could conrirme this po- rtion 1. From Nature, which, in the perturbation of its eftablished harmonie, forcing things , for the good of the whole, contraire to their proper tenden- cies, exhibitetka clear emblem of thefe vicarious aflif- tances. 2. From things rationall, wherein the Pre- valencie of the end , and its obligation, doth ahvayes overrule the order and regard of the midfes , to a con- venient fubferviencie. 3 . From the received acknow- ledgement of a twofold calling, appertaining to eve- ry man, one Generall , flowing immediatly from the end , and exerting it felf in extraordinarieemergents: another Particular , aranging to a certain fixed Ra- tion , in the regular courfe of ordinarie events. 4. From the approven mftances of many extraordinarie ftretches, in the cafe eitherof our own, or others their unforefeen , and imminent dangers , fpecially from that moftappofite example of the noble effort of Sods Souldiers in vckudng Jonathan from his fa- thers unreafonable violence , without the leaft impu- tation of a tianfgrellion, 5. From this plain fuppofi- tMQ 16 The firft Dialogue tion. A certain King commands a bodie of Souldiers to chofe their own Generall and other Officers , and march againft one of his Provinces apoftatized to Idolatrie, fevereiy injoining unto both Generall offi- cers and fouldiers the execution of his pleafure > under pain of death: In the expedition! the General chofen and others with him? forgetting dutie, fall away and joyne with the Idolaters , whereupon the remaining part of the Armie , although in a fufficient capacitieto have efFectuat their Prince his Command, yet deferte and returne, making no other pretenfe then that they were not free to exceed their private vocations , whereunto they held themfelves abfo- lutely confined : Would this be fuftained for a good defence , and not rather looked upon as a cowardly , and lafie shift , taking refuge in the words , contraire to the certain meaning of the orders i Let any man judge and apply. But leaving all thefe grounds to your better improvement , the plain and obvious read- ing of the Scripture is my entire fatisfaclion : And really when wich thefe warnings generally made , I alfo take a view of the commenfurat threatnings wherewith they are enforced? and the fuiteable execu- tion ordinarily enfuing , I almoft marveile that the ob- vious connexion , adequating the guilt and punish- ment j doth not difcover unto all this fecondarie obligation incumbent to the people, in its punished and therefore finfuli , omiflion. I know the Soveraig- nity of the moft high, & the nothingnefle, Scnoughti- nefTe of all rlesh in his fight,will be alleaged fometime to juftify the extent , not only of his judgements , but alfo of his threatnings , beyoudthe defertof the for- mal exprefTe provocation, whereby they are occasion- ed, without the leaft shadow of unrighteoufnefle , But ( that I may forbear lanching forth unto that un- fearchable Anfvvered. 17 fearchable deepth) to recurreto thefe Myftcries,when both the ftrain , and reafon of the exhortation do lye lb faireforthe obliga.ion pleaded, is vifiblytocner- vat the aw and dread of the Lords Commandments. Do not alledge , that to perfuade this Subfidiarie call and engagement to Popular Reformations? is not only to put tender Confciences upon the rack, ofa.conti- nual fcrutinieinto publick affaires • but to draw them altogether out from the inward and molt important duties of Chriftianitie, unto an over-curious fearch> and confequently a finiftrous jealoufie ? of the actions of their Rulers 3 of all practices the moft pernicious > both to Religion and Peace : for as at beft ? thefe are only the pretentions of men ? upon the other extreme funkeinto thcmfelves , and wholly devoted unto their own eafe ? fo3 the very consideration of Mans Poli- tique as well as private capacitie ? with the many in- controverted precepts and dire&ious pertaining to it > do neceflarily hold ont a laudable Mediocrity. I have already told you , that thefe exhortations do 3 in the firft place , oblige every man to procure the trufe of his own proper allignement ? and you cannot be more defirous then I am confentient> that private men abftrad from officious medling , forbear prefuming cenfures , and render unto their Rulers , with their due obedience } all the honour , efteem , fubmiflion 9 charitie and tendernefie , that both their high digni- tie , infuperable infirmities , and manifold tempta- tions call for , But as thefe duties have their proper limites, in matters fecular , known and acknowledg- ed by all , fo , I am confident , that to hold them illimited m matters of Religion , no lefs privileged and defined , by moft certain and evident rules, is s moft manifeft mconfequence > either of Ignorance or Malice, Then indeed is a Kingdom truely happy * B wherj 18 The firfl: Dialogue. when all , in their feveral Orbes > do obferve their proper motions about the fame common Centre of, the glory of God, and good of thePublick, without any other communication then that of benigne influen- ces , and due aififtanccs , and this though without the reach of hope , ought not thelefTe to be our wish, and the patern of our endeavours : and therefore in thefe inevitable jarrings , whereunto we are fubjecl:, the next remedie is certainly in the applications of Charitie , firfl , covering as much as is poifible , then by its gentle means of Intreatie and Counfel 3 curing thefe diforders 5 that cannot be hid ; but if the evil proceed to the endangering of the whole > and all the more moderate couries become dcfperate ; As it were vain j in that cafe, to alleage mens vifible and felt difcoveries , to be curioflties and jealoufics $ fo the extraordinary and refolute interpositions of the foun- der part , is affuredly the only probable fafety of the Common-wealth. To thefe grounds adduced from the OldTeftament for Subjects their fighting for Reli- gion and popular Reformation , I take leave to adde one more from the Apocrypha : and that is the Exam - pleandHiftorie of the Maccabees. I need not nar- rate the matter of faft, how the King polluted the San- ftuarie, and perfecuted the poor People of the Jews unto a conformitie with his abominations $ and how MattathiiU 3 firft refitted , then killed the Kings Com- miilioner , wirhthe whole iequel of thefe warres , all is evident upon record. That it exa&ly quadrates to the cafe of our Controverflc, is apparent from the (in- gle propofal. If you deny it, it is your part, and I am fure > will prove your lingular wit , to shew a difparitie. Thefe ordinarily objected by the men of, your opinion, are either that Amiochtts was not the Jews Lawfull King , or that the oppofition was made in Anfwered. 1 9 in the Spirit > and under the difpenfation of the Old Teftament , and is not approveable by the New. As to the tirft , Grotiits thinks the contraire Co clear, from the plain phrafe of* the Books of the Maccabees, where- in .intiochw is frequently termed the King, that he ad* deth no further confirmation : If this do not fatisfie it may be confidered that Antiochits his title to Jurie, is not obnoxious to any particular exception , which doth not equally implead his right to all his other Do- minions: for feeing the Land of Judah was lirft by the Lords gift, Jer. lj. 6. 12. 16. 29. 2. Z^dehjahs Cove- nant with Nebuchadne^ar , ratified and confirmed by the Lord , whereby the Kingdome became bafe > E\ek. 17. vers. 12. to zz* 3. By right of Conqueft upon the revolt, Icr. 39. and 4. by Cyrus his refti- tution, reftoring the jews to their own Land, Reli- gion and Laws , but only with a pro vinciat liberty i as E^el^: had prophcfied , and is molt apparent from the Books of E^rab and Nebemiab , unqueftionably an annexed part of the Babylonish Monarchic *An- the hts his clame to it and his whole Realme,is evident by the fame; Nay though you could prove him an Ufurper of the principal Monarchic , as you cannot , the violence of the firft Conqueft, being by long Pre- fcription , and a faire fucceffion wholly purged; yet you mull remember, that, that would not alrerthe condition of the dependent Provinces, nor render the Usurpers right, as it refpecteth them , in theleaftde- bctable. Let not the Law of the Kingdom , delivered by Mtfes , demurre your perfuafion : it excludes in- deed a Forrainer from the Peoples free Election , but doth no waylimite the difpofition of Divine Sovc- raignity. As to the fecond objection made , that the rcfisianct of the Maccabees was Old TeftAmentairt 4 and now antiquate , feeing it hath no contingence , ei- B z ther 20 The firft Dialogue ther with the nature , or reaion or tne things innovate by that change, you cannot alledge it? without ex- prelTe warrant , which notwithstanding Grotius his attempt) is yet undifcovered. What your invention will further adde againft this paflage , I cannot^con- je&ure. I know you think it marvellous dealing in your N.C. to tell you of the Law of Nature, aud poifibly may call it Monftruous for me to ufe the Apo- crypha : But not to trifle , either with your quiblings, or the refped that your Prelatick Church beareth to thefe Books? when I confider, that thj Hiftorie of thefe worthies , is not only honourably pointed at by the PropheGeofD^/Vjcap. 11.3z.33. But alfo appeares to be with applaufe commemorat by the Au- thor to the Heb. chap. 11. 33,34. I look upon it as an Argument, not more ftrongly founded in Reafon, then •firmly eftablished by the unite Teftimony of both Tefc taments. Here I might take notice of what you fay oftheNewTeftament, viz. that its whole firain ruyis uponfujfering : but feeing your infinuation is General and mconcludent , and that afterward you do more particularly object from it , I proceed. Having thus at fome length fupplied your N. C. omiffion , in the next place I come to the Argument where with you furnish him,viz. That the law of Nature teacheth us to defend our 'ihes, & therefore there is no need ofexprejk Scripture for it : In Anfwere to this , having broke your jeaft, You begin very Magifterially with your N.C.&. tell him, that he is zftr anger to the very de- figne of Religion, which is to mortifie Nature ', that it is a thing Supentatural-ythattheScriptures arc flra?igely contri- ved, ever telling us of fujf<.ring, without the exception of re- finance, ijin a capacitie • vou appeal to Confcience if either fighting , which a car). at man may do, or fitjftringy which he cannot dofbe the likelier way to advance Religion? whence Anfwerecl. 21 whence you conclude, That it is not to be defended or ad* "j.inced by rides borro'vedfrom Nature,butfrom Grxe.FyQ upon you M. Conforming where is ingenuitie $ Your N. C. fayes that Nature teaches us, To defend againfi injuries-, though inflicted tor Religion, & you tell him that Religions defigne is to mortifie Nature , & that it is not to be defended or advanced by natures rules. Is not thisftrangely contrived reafoning ? The N.C. is as per- fuaded as you are , that the Grace of God bringing Salvation , hath appzared unto all , teaching us to deny ungodlineffe and wordly lufts , and ib to mortifie corrupt Nature • buc doth it therefore contradict pure Natures light 3 or warrant us to deftroy our felves ? If any private Perfon should injurioufly impofeupon and invade another for Religions fake, were it not lawful for the Perfon thus injured to defend himfelf ? Or were this contraire to the defigne and nature of Religion ? you cannot fay it. I know the Magiftrat invefted with authority, is no private Perfon : but remember , that you now argue from the Supernatural quality of Religion, and not from the character of the Magiftrats power : and therefore as upon this fubjectl would tell you,that not- vvithftanding the Magiftrat , by reafon of his place, may defer ve a greater (though no illimited ) for- bearance , yet he hath as litle warrant for , and greater lininperfecutingthen a privat perfon,- fo in the cafe in hand , it is evident , that if the mortifying defigne of Religion reject all Natures afliftances, itmuftof ne- ceflitydo foas well againft a privat as a publick perfon. And verily if this be your understanding of the defigne of Religion, you are too forward to teach others : but what you lacke m skill, vou endeavour to make out by cunning. The N. C. afferts Natures warrant only for defence which you perceiving Religion not to con- B 3 troll? 52 The firft Dialogue troll , draw out a faire conclufion * not againft Defen- ding ) but againft Defending and Advancing of Religion by Natures rules. Sir you know fo well the difference of thefetwo > Defendingand Advancing ; and that Non# conformifts are no Turks , that I wish my charitie could hide your calumnie. Setting afide therefore this your foifted myAdvancingwhich allNon-conformifts dodifown, let us hear what you adde againft Defen- ding f You fay The Scriptures do ever tell m offujfering without the exception of refinance when in a capachie, I grant theScriptures do fpeakof many and great fuffer- ings 5 according to the holy Counfel of God ? and frequent lot of his Saints ; that all that will live godly , muft fuffer perfecutien. They contain alfo many pre^ cepts , and excellent encouragements to Patience un- der Suffering : but that they do hold out any direct Command to men (imply to Suffer , abftracting from patient fuffering , or the leaft infinuation 3 that > though in a full capacitie> they should not at all refiftj ivhich in effeft doth little differ , the many paffages adduced by me in the contraire ? with the advice of Flight often given, show to be as remote from Truth> as requifite to your inference. As for your appeal to Conscience > Whether fighting or fuffering be thelil^e- tier way to advance I{cligion ? I appeal to common Senfe, if it be pertinent to contcft for that, which your Adverfarie doth not deny. The glorious power of the grace of God,in propagatingRehgion by the weaknes and fufferings of his Servants , is the great miracle of the Gofpel , and the praife of all Saints : and yet if at any time > t he Lord in pitie to his afflicted, did raffs them up a Saviour 3 or give them a banner for Truth y was this bleiling therefore defpifed , or the means of it condemned ? God forbid. The works of the Lord are all holy , beautifull and well confident, and in this the Anfwered. 23 the Non-conformifts do experimentally joy. As to your clofe of this paflage , That a carnall man can fight, wee know that fpiritual men have done it alfo , Hcb. 11.33. And where you adde , that he cannot fuffer , it is no further my concernment ? then to bid you be more advertent , feeing you tell us in the very next Jeafe , of fome Murtherers that fuffered gallantly* and that thefcal of a Martyrs blond is not altvaycs the feat of God i and to ponder the native import of 1 Cor, 13.3. Nowjas if you had demonltrate the unlawfulnefle of fighting 1 you ftill your N- C. regrate , for the neglect andruineoftheworkof God 5 by the Coniideration of Gods Power and Providence; and tell him, that to defend Religion by force, is but the wrath of man ; that Religion was firfl propogate by fuffering , whereat fighting hath been ever fatal to it. Its anfwered , as it is bus to tempt and mock God and his Providence , to neglect the means of prefervation allowed by him «? So m the love of his Glory to appear for his interefts againft Perfecuters and Subverters, with thehafardof all our worldly concernments, is not thefinfull and felrish wrath of man , but the very power and zeal of God. That Religion hath been much propagated by fuffering, is already acknowledged : but that righ- ting hath been ever fatal to it , is manifeftly contra- dicted j by the establishment of almofl; all the Refor- mations in Europe. But vou go on and tell your N. G. that our Lord did begin the Go /pel with Suffering , when he could have commanded Legions in his defence,and when you have made him to mutter out, That Chrifi knew it nun his Fathers will , you proceed to tell , with com- panion for his ignorance , of Chrifts injunction to his Difciplesy not to draw for him, and add his words to Pi - /rfj,not only as an evident aflurance of what you affert > B± but 24 The firft Dialogue. but as a manifeft conviction of the coldnes of your Ad- verfaries. Sir?fuch is the hight & (event? of your con- ceitedneffe in this place,that if the averfion I have for all things like it , did not reftrain ; I should hardly forbear togiveycu a humbling retaliation: But all I defire is , that by defcending a little from it , you may be in cafe to receive a fober anfwere. That our Lord? did not only begin , but found the Gofpel upon his moft Voluntarie , free and defired, as well as comman- ded fuffering , is a Truth fo high and precious , and juftly accounted inimitable in fubftance, that 1 it-range you should debafe it , by making it a part of your Ar- gument , when you know that Chrift came into the world , that he might freely give himfclf a ranfome -y and that therefore he neither would be diverted 3 nor ufe the flight which he had formerly both command- ed and prac~t,ifed , do you rationally argue, that becaufe he thus fuffered , fo ought we to do: or becaufe he fefufedhis Difciples endeavours ofrefcue , that there- fore Chriftians in perfection should neither give nor admit of affilhnce. I grant , that i^ God fo order it > mfuffering, we ought to imitate his patience, i Pet, 2. 2 1- But what maketh this for you i You infinuate. as ifhis not commanding Angels to his defence , had been a meere effect of his patience $ but as this opini- on is not countenanced by the defcription thereof gi- ven by the Apoftle in the place cited, fo, I pray you hear our Lord himfelf , Thinkeft thou that I cannot (which I am certain foundeth plainly May not ) fray to myPather^g he shall frefently give me tyc.but hcti then shall the Scrfpture be fulfilled, that tbw it muft be ? here then is the reafon of our Lords forbearance , prefum e not to fancie another* But you fay he forbad his Difci- fles to draw the [word in his defence, tvhith afevere threat* ning 3 for all they that take the /word shall fer'ish ttith the '"' fword Anfwered. z$ ..', Take you this to be a threatning againfhbe DilclplesHvhich for their comfort is fo plainly fpoken againft the ti aiterous band that came againft; him , upon whom alfo it was moft dreadfully accomplished. Thus Grofwilponthe place, though in the point of defence he be veryinconfequentjif yoncannotunder- ftand it thus from the context, I defire you onely to read it in a parallel application , J{ev. 13. 10, He that kilieth with the /word muft be killed with thefrvord ; here is the Faith and Patience of the Saints ? are you not then ashamed to make it' their threafning and fear ? Next you adde , that what our Lord [aid to Peter , my Kjngdome is not of this world, &c. is fo Plain language* that you wonder it doth not convince all. If I were to oppofe confidence to confidence, I should make no other reply , then that this is indeed fo plain language, that I wonder what Conviction you mean ; but becaufe this is the ground of your proud and vain boifting which you are not affrayed to feal with the veracity of God,let us hear the words at length John. 18. where our Lord being queliioned by Pilot , art thou the King ofthe]ews ver. 3 3.returnes the direct Anfvvere. ver. 16. thus, A4v KJngdom is 7iotofthis world if my Kingdom were of 'this world , then would mv feriw.ts fight , that I should not be delivered to the jews : but now is my King- dom not from hence. In which wor.^s , as he" witnefleth his Kingdom , fo , to remove the jews accufation , and Pilots jealoufie , hedeclareth the quality of it viz. That it is not of this world-, that is, a worldly Kingdom , tobeexercjfed as other Kingdoms of the world are in out ward power and fplendour , and therefore can neither interfeere with , nor diminish Caefars Em- pire and grandour \ and this heconfirmeth by a moft plain and convincing argument, If my KJngdom were of this world then would my fervants fight j that I should not be delivered to the jews : that is 3 if I defigned a a6 The Second Dialogue worldly Kingdom , I would have gathered followers, or rather (according to the aliiftance mentioned by him at his firft taking) called Angels my fervants , to fi*ht for my refcue: but fince I imploy no reliefe , but willingly give my felf unto the death , now is it plain that my Kjngdome ts not from hence. Thus I have fet down both the plain language, and I hope the plain meaning of the place but whence it is that you derive your advantage , I proteft I cannot divine, if the Lord prove his Kingdom not to be a worldly one , becaufe fee imployed no aid for his refcue from the Jews , doth it therefore folio w>that all perfecute Chriftians should re:ect all aliiftance, and deliver themfelves up to fuf- tering after the fame example ? Are you not yet fatis- fied th^t the manner only , and not the aft of our Lords fcjfering » is propofed to our imitation. Beleeve me Sir, I have been often ferious to finde out wherefore riiis text is fo much talked of by the men of your per- ilu(io:i j but unlefs is be that men who would be con- tent that Ghiiils Kingdome were not in the World , do love to hear a phrafe fo neer it , that it vs not of the Woril ■> or that the great Devotionaries of eafe, with- out adverting to the reafon , and making an Emphafis in that which is a clear fpeciality, would force from the words, contraire to their plain tenour and fcope, this general Rule ? that Ins Servants fight not > no not (as they would read it) for \w refcue. I could never attain to a better conjecture. It comes in my thought while a writing , that it is poilible, that in reading the words forward, you may underftand them back- ward ,• As if our Lord in faying , If my Kingdom tpere of this Wcrld ? then would my Servants fight , had reifoned thus ^ becaufe my Kingdom is not of this World , therefore my fervants'do not fight : But feeing his Argument is evident as the Meridian Sun, My Anfwered. 27 My fervants do not tight tor myrefcue. therefore I pretend to no worldly Kingdom , the force of the in- ference is no more clear then it is certain , that the ipi- rituality of his Kingdome neither is in this place, nor can be at all iri ed to aftrict his followers to his unimi- table example > in this his free and voluntaire fuf- fenng : But becaufe I am refol ved to conltrainyou to an acknowledgement , that the Non-conf. Anfweres to your Scriptures , are neitheri>->\///o>/»7/ nor ridiculous asyoualledge j I shall enlarge a little moie upon this fubieft : Seme men of your way fay , that feeing Chrift doth here declare his Kingdom not to beof tins World for the clearing of Pilot and all Powers of the Jealouiles , which fuch a thing might raife , ol necef- iity the inconfiftencie aiW prohibition of fighting (the great fear of the Princes or the Earth, ) muftbe im- ported ; It's anfwered, our Lords anlwere is no doubt framed and fuited to the Jews accufation , which be- yond queftion $ both in Pilats and in their undei Wan- ing , was his affecting an outward Kingdom in preju- dice of Ccefar y and, as of this hedoth unaniwerably pnrgehimfelf , and, thereby fully fatisfy all thejuft feares that could be objected , lb , to imagine that his purpofe was to remove all the falfe apprehenfions> and reiileile inquietudes , which only the wickedneiTe and violence of Tyrannes do fuggeft . and thereby to gratify Tyranny , is, both gieundleiTe and impious; hut to convince you plainly, that the fpirhuality of Chrifts Kingdom doth not reftrain Fighting for Reli- gion , I ask you in a word , what is the'reafon that theChriftian world, doth not patiently ftretch out its neck to the Tui kish Cruelty ? Sure you are not ignorant that the pretended caufe of his invafions,hath often been to deftroy the Chrifhan Faith : if then the ipirituality of GhriftsKingdom doth altogether prohi- bit 28 The firft Dialogue bite his Servants fightingj wherefore do not Chriftian States and Princes lay aown their Carnall derenfive weapons , and reft quietly in this, that God who governs the world can maintain bis own right , and the wrath of man doth not work, his righteoufnejie, as you are pieafed to Cant to your N. C, 1 know the only repiy you can make , is , that the cafe of free Eftates and Soveraigne Princes againft foreiners is very different , from that ofSubje&s againft theirRulers jbut doth not this plain- ly difcover the Sophiftrie of your Method,you tell us, firft , that Subjects may not fight for- Religion againsl their persecuting Prince , becaufe the fpirituality of Chrifts Kjngdom forbids all fighti?ig upon that ac- count. And then when you are urged with the incon- trovertible practice of Chriftian Kingdomes , you juft recurre & lay , that the inftance not being of Subjects againft their Prince , doth not quadrat , and not re- membring that this is the very qucejitum , you make the vain and emptie aflfertion of the irrefiftibilitie of Princes , without any proofe , both head and tail of all your reafonings : I may not infift to teli you,that if the fpirituality of Chrifts Kingdom did cauie the King of Kings, and him, who even on earth owned himfelf greater then Solomon, to fuffer without reii- ftance ; The Soveraignity of Chriftian Princes can- not give them a contrary privilege. I know thefe of your way , and many others alfo , carried, away with their error , forgetting both the Authority which Chrift exercifed , and for which he was queftioned by the Jewish Rulers , and alfo his own moft exprefle words , no man takjth my life from me , but I lay it down of my f elf . 1 have power to lay it down , and I have power to take it again , ftick not to make an obli- gation of fubje&ion to the then Tyrannes & Murthe- rers,an ingredient in his fubrnjilion ; but I am tedious , More Anfwered. 2$ More confideration of the worth and wonderful love or our Lord Jelus Chrift , would teach you no doubt > both a better undeiftanding in the Truth of God , and more reverend and tender vindications then thefe you make of the True and Faithful! Witncfs. You proceed in the next place, upon occafion of your. N. C. alledging that you condemne our firfl Refor- mation , carried on by Fighting , to tell us , that the ages immediatly after Chrifl afford the beft examples , in thefe the Chrijlians , though fu flic iently numerous, and cruelly irritate > did only tncreafe by fuffcring , and not by figh- ting: the force tifed in our \\e\ormation was the enemies tarts , aud no precedent of merits to be oppofed to the ex- treme, word 9j God. Sir , to begin where you leave , I hope I have already fully cleared , that the exprefle word of God is againft you , and not for you: neither will J expatiat upon the undeniable Neceffitie -, Righ- teoufnelfe , Reafon and evident bleffingof that Force ufed in our firft Reformation , by which our Religion , Libertie , yeatheRoyall line and Crown? were un- der God only preferved- Nay your reprochful like- ning 01 it to the de'ils tares, is fo far from leflening the evidence of that Spirit, which after having refilled unto bloud , and wreftled through many great and ftrong perfections , did animate the Lords people to a very noble defence, countenanced by all the thea Reformed Churches , that it doth not fo much as de- murremycharitie, that if you your felf had been in thefe dayes, you had taken part with the Congrega- tion : That which I shall ftay a little upon, is the prac- tice of the Primitive Chriftians, whereby you think lighting for Religion , to be as much condemned , as fuffering is highly commended. And becaufe this objection doth lead unto the delightful fearch and vin- dication of the works of God, for anfwere, 1 ob- fervc 30 The firft Dialogue fervefirft /that as in the holy and determinate Counfe! of God, it became the Captain of our Salvation to be made perfect through fuffering , fo it pleafed him for the greater manifeftation of the power of his Grace by the Foolishneife of Preaching, and Weakenefs of Surfering,to render the propagation of his Truth more glorious, and thus inthefirft times of the Gofpel > the greater the crueltie , and the more ineluctable that the neceffity of the fuffering was , the more inexpref- fible was the glory of that prefence and the joy of that confolation , whereby the Church in its deepeft dif- trefle did molt highly triumph. 2. So unfpeakeablie did the power of this affiitance prevail , to the difpel- lingofthefear , and removing of the horrour, of all thefe torments and afflictions , that many inftead of flying , incontrovercrbly lawful] > did directly run to fuffering; and to a great part, the Garland of Mar- tyrdom became 2 moft Ambitionat Crown ; by the miftake of the exuberance of which aiilfting grace,not only many odd practices in precipitating themfelves unto fuffering and death, but Opinions alio then held, fuch as that of the unlawfulneife of ail refiftance for Chriftians ,even againft Robbers and Murtherers, can only beexcufed, ;. But if the beautie and fplendor or this grace did in fome meafure dazle the eyes of its more immediate witnefTesJiow much more did it afto- nish its more remote and after admirer?,\vho receiving the report with fames increafe , and taking their mea- fures,more from their own good delign.then the exact fimplicitieoftruthj by their pious ancfarfectionatRhe- torications,ftopt not to (train matter of fact, fometimes beyond probabilitie. If you be aftranger to this truth, advert how the almoft immediate after Age magnifies their Patience and Sufferings , fuch as vefira omnia n%- plrvimtK) with more then one grain of allowance. 4, As -Anfwered. 31 4. As this was the difpenlation of the firft ages oi rhe Gofpel, fo, when the Lord advanced the Church to a certain and vifible capacity or" defence » periife Hifto- ries, and you will find plenty of inltar.cesor Chrifh'ans their fighting for Religion. The Armmii very early even before Con ft ant im his Empire, Libertatcm excrccn- di Chriftianifmi ^Arrtm vindicant > Clade afficiunt lihixi- minum as the Hiftory beares , and how the perfecuted Christians , under the Perfian and Arrian, did implore and receive the aid of the Roman and Orthodox Em- perours , would be fupei fluous to narrate. By thefe few reflections as I have cut of from your argument all the neceffary fuffering and (trained capa- cities of the Primitive Chriftians, fo I have given * ou Inch" a full and evident account of their not fearching after, or improving fooner, any real meafure of fuffi- ciencie for defence, which probably they did but little minde, that this their omiflion cannot without mani- fell cal umn ie , be adduced to difprove, either their immediate after- pra&ifes, or the agreeable and univer- (ally approven examples of our late reformations. Now if for proving their more early capacite for,or expreflc dilfentfromDefenfive Armes, you do further urge particular Authorities, when you have anfwered all my juft icruples againft the former , and fatisfied me in all their other opinions in the matter of Amies , then you shall have my Anfwere : but in the mean time pardon me, if while I do indeed admire audpraife the Grace and Glory of thefe Primitive lufTcrings, I be neither too credulous of the offtakes of men, nor do con- demn the dherfitie eftbe operations of the fame God, which workjtb all in *tf,fpecially feeing t ha: by the fame fuf^er- ings whereby you go about to impugne, he hath fo fig- nally confirmed thefe praclifes, which I do maintain. But to this laft you anfwere? that you are far from think. 3 2 The firft Dialogue thtnkjng the better of a Caufe becaufefome dichandfomliefor it : Neither Atbeifm , Herejies nor Murthers want their pretended Martyres . Sir , I neither approve your too much magnifying, fag. 7. nor your too much under- Wluing 5 fag. 9. of mens fufferings : And therefore as at belt i account them only a confirming and acceflbry, and not a principal and leading argument^ fo I rnuft tell you that I conceive the force of its inference to flow from a certain luftre and infinuation of grace , which your jejune Epithets of handfomnejfe and gallantrie do but meanly expreffe $ whether or not this appeared in our late Sufferers, I wonder nothing that you deny it : but fure I am that all the (incere lovers of the Truth , have to their joy both acknowledged it , & been esta- blished by it. After this by a tranfition of your own framing , making yonr N. C. faintly and childishly difown and wave bygones , whereof , to deal plainly , I do as little fear theodium>xs I account your Apologies,taxing them of Rebellion, to be mo/t odious* you come to en- quire wherefore wee keep not the day ofthankjgivingfor the Kings rcflauration ? and feing you are not pleafed with your N. C. anfwere I will give you mine. Aud firft, it is not becaufe you make it a holy day \ I know this is as much above your power , as your act is prefumptuous in ordaining it to be obferved ? and your practices are far from keeping it as a holy day ; Nor do I now de- bate the Magiftrats power in appointing fro re nata dayes of folemne thanksgiving , wherein it is more then certain , that the apparent abufe that hath been in inititutions of this kinde , and the end and defigne of the appointment , do give the Church a very necef- iary intereft of advice. Nor laftly will I detain you in the application of the difference of designing a dayas a Circumftance for thanksgiving to be performed on it , and Anfwered. 31 2nd dedicating a day to be kept as Holy in Comme- moration^ a Popish error, exprefTely by us abjured and by you revived ; he who defires a full clearing in this matter , with a fatisfying anfwere to all objections , may find it in the English popish ceremonies ; but the great reafon wherefore N. C. neither doe nor ought to keep that day , is becaufe you have afCgned for the caufe of it , not only the mercie of the Kings returne , but alfo the wicked overturning of the work of God ; and that with fuch a libeling preface of blafphemies againft God and his caufe , and vile reproches upon the whole Nation , that no true hearted man can read the Aft , without abhorrencie. Now before you rejeft this my anfwere , I only defire you to perufe and con- fidertheAttj and I am almoft certain that although perhaps , you will not come the length of the cha- racter I have made of it , yet you will think it ftrange that men acceflbrie to many of thefe Righteous things, againft which it fo foully railes , should have been ori the one hand indulgently indemrtifyed without any ac- knowledgement ♦ and on the other obliged 5 under the pain of loling their Qipends , to a thanksgiving} exprek flng the higheft recantation. Are thefe waves equal^Think not that my indignation againft this Act^is all and only from my difaffe&ion to your eftablish- ment, that is indeed one caufe, fufficient ro produce ajuftdeteft; butingenuoufly I have fo much of true Loyaltie to my Prince and afTettion to my Countrey , that the diflervice done to the King , in rendering the celebration of that day (which in its righteous and pro- per ufe might have been an acceptable & kindly warm- ing of his Subjc&s afFe£tionJ a very odious provoca- tion to averfion and alienation , is to me not a more iuft then powerfull incentive ; but fuch were the heal- G ing* 34 The firft dialogue. ingsof '.thefe violent Phyfitians, and luch have been and will be the effects. A gain , making a ftepping stone of both your N.C. and his caufe , alter you have made him confefs difloy- altie, becaufe you are not able to prove it , youhold out his way to be evil , becaufe of its crueltie and rigor in forcingmen to take the Covenant, and punishing fuch as rtfufed. and your N.C. granting this toheafaultalfo, ycu charge it home very odioufly againft our Leaders* as Mm unacquainted with the meeh^fpirit , and obftinat in thofe feverities. Its anfvvered, whether thefe things be objected or not in a meek fpirit is more your con- cernment then mine, who regard not your bitterneffe in any drehe .«? That which you call cruelty,if counter- balanced, with the guilt of the recufancie, will quickly be alleviat to moderation : If the Covenants (for I shall touch both) prefTed > had been new Oaths arbi- trate^ impofed ; there were fome ground for your challenge: but as to the firft, was it not the fame y wherein the Nation flood engaged from the firft be. ginning almoft of the Reformation ; and if after a great and vifible defection it was , upon our returning, renewed , and with a moreexprene application againft thefe corruptions , whereunto we had backflidden , required to be taken by' ally who could not decline without a manifeft declaration of both their unfound- nefle and infinceritie in the Oath of God * call you this Rigor ? And as to the fecond, the League, if the Com- munion or Saints > and that fympathie wee ought to have with all Chrifts fufferingsMembers,didperfuade it as a dutie , and if your then ejected Prelats , did by their reftleffe mitigations , and the breaches of Faith , and Hoftile invafion from England thereby procured, render it convincingly a mod necelTary meane , for the preferving and profequuting the ends of the firft , was it i Anfwered. 35 it not both rational and righteous thatthey , who ftood thus obliged > by vertue of" the firft Covenant , to take the Second, upon their recufance, should be proceeded againft. as Beferters : And the truth is,as they were not many that were troubled (imply, tor not taking the Covenants ; fo there were but few , if any , who re- fufed the fecond, who either before were not, or thereafter became^not , direCtlv oppofite to the Firft ; Nor did thefe few refufers fubfift in a quiet disfatisfac- tion ,• but for the mod part turned violent and bloody Enemies , or at leaft partakers with fuch Adverfaries> Notwithftanding of all which perjury and wicked - nefs , the procedour againft thefe recufants , or rather Apoftates , was fo litle adequate , either to their guile or number , that upon a confiderate and impartial! re- view , I am affined , all theexcefs that can be quali- fied will not fuffice to purge your obje&ion of Cruelty againft the publick comfes of thefe times ? of plain Calumnie : I fay the Publu\courfes ; for as to the par- ticular pra&iles of private peifons , although the cor- ruption inherent to the beft , and the many and rapid Temptations of times of divifion and wars , do onfeu me large matter of Apologie ; yet I doe rather wish that the outbreakings which wee have feen , and felt, of the Lords holy jealoufie, may make both the Lo- vers of his work to remember their provocations , and tremble before this holy LordGod, who will be Sanc- tifyed in them that come nigh him : And alio the hat- ers of his Name to confider how much more upon fuch he will be Glorifyed : But you , not content to pervert the Righteous waves of God ,go about main- ly to reprelenc his Minifters as bloudv men , rejoycins andobslinatein bloud ; certainly fuch a grievous and horrid accufation ou°ht to have been evidently in- ftru&ed $ but fince it is impoffible to imagine the leaft C z shadow 36 The firft Dialogue shadow of ground for it, unleflc that fometlmeshis Servants, either in the more eminent and (ignall ap- pearances of Gods vengeance upon his bloudy and perfidious Adverfaries , have joined their praifes with Heavens Alleluiahs , for the manifestation of his true and righteous judgements , or that when the Lord called to punish, they have regreted an unfea- fbnable and partial cxceffe of Lenitie : Arenotthefe arrows , firebrands and death, which you throw in your pretended meeknefs , like to the fymptomes of IvladneiTe ? And now Sir,fince you will have it fo.give me leave to manage the retortion for your N. C. You accufe our times of cruelty , for forcing men to take the Co- venant ; though in effeft it was only to make them ftand to an Oath, whereby all were antecedently o- bliged $ but have not you and many of you , fuch/as formerly were very forward to preffe it upon others , Now , without either reafon given , or repentance fo much as pretended , been mcft violent to have all men to renounce it? I will not mention the exclufion of allNon-renouncers from PublickTruft , and the firft Arbitrary fining , and remitting or abating,upon condition of the Declaration, Temptations not only unjuft , but no lefs powerful , and a hundred fold more extenfive , then all the certifications execute upon fimple Noncovenanters : the very inftances by you given shall alfo ferve my turne : Are not to con- curre irHthe prefent Church-Government , and to promife fubmiifion to Epifcopacie , certain reductive difclamations f And yet you cannot deny, that for the refufing of thefe things many hundred, ofMini- fters have been thruft out, and in fuch manner vexed and tofled withimprifonments, banishments, con- finements, and proclamations upon proclamations, that Anfwered. 37 that if the Lord had not provided , your mercie in fparing their Lives , had been only the complement of your Cruelty : Its true that Minifters are not made, to fweareto Miintain the prefent Eftablis'.iment ; but iftheybe required to break a former lawful and ap- prove.! Oath , where is the difparity * As for the People , you tell us they are defired to do nothing , but live peaceably, and join in worship: And veri- ly though this were all , and though your Publick Peace were notfo perverted , as it cannot be fubferib- ed unto, and your Worship fo polluted , and pro- faned,as may give too juft occafion of fcruple, it were eafie to demon Urate , that fuch hath been the Rigor, and violence of your Methods, that it is a wonder that a hundred to one have not been thereby irritate to more unpeaceablenefle, and greater defertion : but be- caufe you have brought againft us and our leaders , the odious accufation of Bloud, although I have already removed it $ yet in purfumce of the parallel I muft further tell you, chat the Bloud of the former Times , abftracting from its juftice , was in a manner the Bloud of War iu War : but in your Times wee have feen ; over and above its mjuftice , the bloud of War shed in Peace, and that of fuch Perfons , for fuch Caufes , and with luch Circumftances , as time doth only increafe and no: diminish its aftonishment : next, the tragedie ofthefepoor hirmlefle perfons , who by your infuf- fcrable infolencies and exactions were provoked to takeArmes, is yet recent. Ishal not refume particu- lars but I am confident) their caufe, their number, their condition and their rout being conlidered, the tortures and bloudy executions that eniued , not upon the chief Actors and inftruments>but upon the inferior yea mean eft of thefe Innocents led out to the (laugh- ter , without choife, are hardly to be matched : what C 3 hand 3S The firft Dialogue hand your Lords of theClergiehadin thefe things ; how fuift their feet were to shed bloud , and how Burnet the A. P. o£Glafgow> taught the Executio- ner to trufs him up with a pulley , who for weaknefTe could not be otherwife execute , and the Armie Offi- cers commanded drums to be beaten to drown the Teftimony of the Lords dying witnefTefs , is well known. Nay it is more then probable that if the King had not put a ftop to that butcherie, and thefe op- preffions and barbarities wherewith the Weil was af- terward aflicled, your Prelats had not given over, until that partie had been utterly cut off, and that whole Countrey laid defolate for their caufe » I might further tell youof yonr other feverities , and how by your rigid exceptions and other enfnaring Ads , not only the intended favour of the Kings Indemnity was corrupted; but alfo its verydefigue andef?ec"t fruf- trat : But what need of many words , let the fervent aud confpiring defires of the 1659, and the more ex- ulting joyesofthe 166c. with the many difappoint- ments , grievances and exactions that enfuf d , togeth- er with the prefent Univerial coolnefs , diffatisfa&ion and diffraction, and unfetled condition of the King- dom be confidered , and impartially fearched into their proper caufe, and if Prelacie be not found the only marrer of our joy and quiet , ferment of our diftemper and moth of our Loyalty , then rejoice yee in the Bishops , and let them alfo rejoyce in you: but if thus it bejthen&c.Thus you have forced me to reta- liatyour provocation , and lam more then wearied Qfthefubjeft. In the next place you taxethe N. C. of great hight and infolencie , in affiiming the big Names of the Godly Partie , and the People of God , and calling their way the caufe and Kingdom ofQhrift, Sir if they did indeed con- tend Anfvvered. 3 9 tend for the Miniftery and Ordinances of Chrift ; And that for the vindication of his Power and Government over his Church , and the Profpering of his pleafure> I think truely they had good right to all thefe names : but that they did vainly and arrogantly ufethem, it is more then you have proven j or I doe remember: And really J am in the opinion that upon fearch , it will be found, that the Titles of the People of God y and of the Godlie P Artie, were at rirll not fo much afTutru ed by the ailerters of our caufe, as appropriat unto them by the reproach and mocking of their Adverfa- ries: As for after contefts (if any were; among their own fubdivifions , they were no doubt the fad confc- quents of other evils , wherewith it pleafed the Lord that his own should be tried; but if you think that for all the competitionjthe Titles 3 are ftill vacant, I wish from my heart that both you and your partie may be thereby animat to put in, and to shame and ex- clude all lowd Pretenders , by reall demerhe. To this you fubjoin another great Article , that Our Miniflers who complained 0/ BifJ-iops , their medling in matters ofStatcwhen thefcene turned, did therein abfolute- ly Govern : And to this challenge you make your N. G. returne the Popes Anfwere for his Ufurpa- tions : viz : that all was done in order to Religion, on purpofe that you may mike the rcplv , That the Pope and Presbiterians doe much agree in Poliiiques. Sir , wa- ving the immodeft terme of impudence and other ar- rant peccancies agamft truth , ~ where with you fet forth your Modes! reprzfenting of 'faults , as yow are pleafed to call it. I returne shortly for anfwere this clear and certain pofition , wherein jamfurewe can- not difagree viz. that as the direction of Confcience appertains to the Paftoral charge, fo the Minifters of Gods Word ought both to adviie, exhort and warne C 4 there- 4$ The firfl: Dialogue thereanent 5 according as in every occurrcnt , the circumftances of the thing which make its feafon > do thereto cleare their call and accefle : This truth is evi- dent in its own light: whoever owneth Confcience? the Word of God to be its Rule > and its Minifters to be our Teachers and Guides > cannot deny it. All the difficnltie is in the right performance ; the exceeding goodnefle and rare beautie of a word in feafon , is no ordinary attainment j becaufe to every purpofe there is time and judgement $ therefore the mi jerk of Man is gnat upon him. If I should afcribe the exattnefle of this ob- fervance to our Minifters , I should forget them to be Ivlen: but as to theinftances, which you alleage of their warnings given againft the Engagement 1648 and all deeds dire&ly relating to it , And of their Mi- nifteriall acceifion to a prudent exclufion , in the year 1649 of fuch as>ad proven Unfaithfull : their Angu- lar importance as to the very fummeof the work of God? hath been fo fignally comprobat by after events, that if upon the matter, you doe condemne thefe pra&ifes , you in effeft doe adjudge Minifters to ab- solute fileiice > at leaft in oppofttion to State determi- nations j whatever be the concernment of the Caufe of God , or good Confcience : Jt were fuperfluous to mention the difference of Prelatick medlings , or what are the Popes invafions : the meaneft capacitie may eafily diftinguish a Minifteriall advice, in point of Confcience? all? either attribute to ? or affumed by Minifters in State , or any other extrinfick affaire, from thefe corrupt pra&ifes : And with the fame fa- cility join Prelacieand Papacie in their common pride and usurpation. You add a particular reafon where- fore Minifters should not medle with war and matters of bloud , becaufe of its contrarktie to the Pajloral dutie 3 which obligeth to feed and not to kill » But as none hath ben Anfwered. 41 been more guiltie of this Sanguinary medling then, thefe who with molt ceremony would appear toob- lerve the letter of the Rule *, fo > confidering what I have lately touched of your Clergie , and who did principally direct the fuppreilion and executions of the late Rifers in Armes , I am in the opinion you de- figned this reflection more for your own Lords 3 then our Leaders : but it is enough I agree with you fully > that Paftors ought not to be Criminal! Judges , farre lefs inftigators to war andbloud ; yet if in thefe matters you allow to Confcience any place , they are no doubt Subjects proper both for Minifterial warning and advice. For a conchifionofyour charge , ye furprifeboth your N. C. and me with a challenge of Superftition , whereof you lay /m arc in many things guilty : Jed quis tulerit Graccbos de Seditione querentes. Siryeeare not fo wittie in this anticipation as yee trow ; for tho ye fcave taken the firft word of fliting -, yet the fucceile is rather a foaming out your own shame , then the fixing of that reproach upon us , which was the mark ye yought to hit. What ? Sir , did ye dream by this device to terrifie your N. C. into a forbearance to charge you with the guilt of Superftition f or did you think by this artifice to vindicat your partie » and be avenged at once on thefe great Worthies , who have fo mamfeftly laid open unto the World the Superftition of the men of your Kidney and Gang ; that though they have travelled to Rome to fetch water to wash thefe fpots , and have put their invention upon the rack to palliat them with all imaginable pretenfes ; yet the shame of their Nakednefle wasfo unfolded by thefe fearching Seers, that it could never be hid. But Sir, are ye in good earneft ? or have ye been in the fore- going lines fo tranfported with rage in fighting againft G 5 De- 42 The firft Dialogue Defenfive Armes , and wrettmg trie fword of jufttte- fence out of the hands of poor Innocent and opprefled Subjects , that in this paroxyfme ye have forgotten to be honeit and rational at once ? Did you bcleeve that you fpoke truth when you reprefented us as fuch ? If I thought ye did , and continued to doe fo Hill , I pro- feife i am lb litleyour enemie that I would pitie you , as one *rho waaketh in the dirknsfle of grofs delufion, and kno veth not whether he goeth, becaufe the darke- nefs ajLtA blinded his eyes. But I would gladly know ho wye make out the charge ; Ye did wifely only in one th, ig , to condefcend upon none of thefe many things , vv herein you fay we are guilty of Super ftition , wneuye make your charge good ye will be admired for your uwenrion 5 till then , it will neither be shame nor reproach to the N. C. to be filent , or laugh at the audacuie of fuch a Novice. But to be ferious with you, Sir? if ye would not take it amide to be Catechized m the Chair, doe ye underftand what Superjlition is , that ye call us io ? Are we fuch to you in many things, becaufe in every thing weownethe Scriptures as the Rule of Faith and manners , and alTert that there is a iurKeieney in thefe to make wife to Salvation , and tiut, without the wild mixture of humane inven- tions , they are able to make the man of God per feci: , thorongly furnished unto every good work ? Is it be- caufe we own no Office-bearers in the houfe of God, fave fuch as are of his own appointment ? Is it becaufe ivejud;eciieEpifcof>al Hierarchie Apocryphal, ancj, cannot acknowledge the Prelat and his junElo for the Coui'ts and Officers of Jefus Chrift ? Is it becaufe we maintain that all things in the houfe of the God of Hea- ven ou^ht to be done according to the will of the God of Jeaven , and becaufe we ftand faft in the libertie where with Chrift hath made us free , and will not fuffer AnfwerecL 4$ fuffer our felves to beimi oied upon or intangled with a Yoke of bondage.*5 Is itbecau'e we maintain that no power uponEarth can make things NeceiTary which God hath made Indifferent , more then they can make things , indifferent , which he hath made NeceiTary { Is it becauie we know or will acknowledge no Law- giver or Lord in the houie of God , beGde our Lord Jefus Chrift, and are bold to put all pretenders to produce our Mailers warrant when they call for our obedience to their Commands , as notdarringto make the will of a poor frail fallible creature the Law of our Gonfcience ? In a word is it becauie we dare not with you homologat all the impieties or that Parties who have bui ft theie holy bonds for Reformation and Righteoufneffe, wherewith together with us they had fo iblemnly bound their Souls, and are now returned to their former vomit ? Is ourtiteem of? and adherence to j the wayes of righteoufneffe , an overrating of things more then we ought .? and are we only guilty of Superflition becaufe we cannot be Metamorphofed into a deteftable newtrality and Gallio like indifTe- rencie in the matters of God? Truely Sir providing our Zeal for thefe things were fuchasour own heart did not reproach us for a finiul short coming and de- fect in, (as alas it is not ) we could bind al your re- proaches, for what ye count excefs and over-rating , unto us as a crown , and indulge you a libercie to lay to our charge things that we know not, and caft ini- quitie upon us , without taking further notice of what ye have (aid , then thereby to be ftirred up to pour out our complaint before God , and Pray him that he would not hold his peace , fince the month of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful 1 is open- ed againft us, and have fpoke againft us with a lying tongue. But I know ye follow your old Leaders D. Mor* 44 The firft Dialogue. D, Martovn , D. Burgefs &c who had the fame un- happinefs to go before you in accufing the Brethren, who could not be cudgelled into a complyance with , nor call in the mould of your Ceremonies , that you have in following of fuch , who in this did not follow the Lord fully , and had not the lamp of the word to shine in their way : They did plead innocent , aflerting they were not guiltie of Superftition in uting and im- pofing Ceremonies , but the N. C. were in refufeing. But Sir , ye should either have had the head to have made the infuticiencie of thefe great mens vindication manifeft, or not have had the fore-head to renew the fame challenge , without taking notice of their replyes which ftand unanfwerable to this day : your over- rating hachthe Doctors reafon , fuch as it is, couched in it: they alledged the N. C. guiltie of Superftition, why? becaufe , forlborh , the N. C. (fay they ) place a fpeciall peice of Religion innotudngof thefe Cere- monies, and teach others to abfeain from ufing them for Confcience fake, and this is the vermiculation of your pulfc too, But what would thefe Gentlemen have laid , or what will the altitude of your invention fug- geft to the Apofdes words , why are ye fubje&to Ordi- n inces , touch not , tafts not , handle not , &c. i. e. Keep your felves free from thele things which are after the commandments and do&rines or men , be ye not fub- jugar as the fervants or men to the obfervationoffuch things , which are obtruded upon you as a peice of Religion, being meer human inventions without any warrant from the Word of God ? was there nothing of Religion in abstaining from thefe ? Sir ye and your Fellows have the unhappinefs to be of a different minde from th? Apottle who had the minde of Chrift- Are mens Confciences nothing concerned to Hand fait in che liberty wh:re with Chrift hath made them free , and Anfwered. 4$ and to* withftand.while a Dc minion over their Faith is ufurpcd, and the thing intended is to wreath a Yoke of bondage to the Dc&rines of men about the neck of the Confcience ? 2. If this be good arguing, may not the prophane multitude have the fame plea againft all who abftain from fleshly lufis that war againft the Soul? Jvlay not thefe I fay be prompted by yourLogickto flout at all who run not with them to the fame excefs of riot j as fupeiftitious fools , bccaufe they place any thing of Religion in thefe negatives , and iuppofe that confcience is concerned in thatatftinence? Hence 3. ■we fay that we look upon our abftainingfrom acom- plyance with the Commands and Doctrines of men, from fcolish andvaine Ceremonies , from whatfoever is obtruded upon us in the matters of God without his warrant, as ads of common obedience? and as fervice to our Lord and JWafter $ but we no more fanfie this abftinence to be an aft of immediat and formal worship ( as you would make the world beleeve we do , to the end that beleeving us they may beleeve ye fpeak truth and reafon ) then we do a keeping of our felves unfpotted from thefe pollutions and corrupt- ions, which come not within the compafs of worship; fo that we may be afwel faid to over-rate things Super- ftiticufly , bccaufe we do not drink, whore , lye, fteall, break Covenant?, perfecute the People of God , yvhodeilre to hold faft their integrity, while broken in the flaee of dragons and cc'crcd with the Jhadott? vf death ; as , becaufe we cannot, we dare not comply •with abjured and wicked Prelacie, Lording it over Gods inheritance, and recuiring obedience to their vain inventions. J muft tell vcu moreover that I do not admire your definition of Supe-ftition, ye had it, I grant , from your friend Do&or Hamond , and to make it your own, you have fupplycd the Dcflors "Nhrnttj 46 The firfl: Dialogne. 'Nimktv with your over-rating : Bui if you think it not an honour to erre , and be put to a difadvantage with the Do&or, you should have guarded your felf and your partie from the rebound ofyour own blow. Sir , what your over- ratings of foolish Traditions and vain Ce emonies are , bath been at a very dear rate experi- enced, by the bleeding and weeping People of God, in whofebloud , exile, bonds, fpoilings, perfections and afliction , yo,u have made your minde and exor- bitant elteem oi thefe things legible : Your inoft bi- got and fond Conibrmift mull grant, that the things ye plead for , Patronize and prefs , are not necefTary in themfelves, and have no connexion with the Salva- tion of the Soul , by way of midfe , or by virtue of di- vine precept; and that all the degrees of necellity they can pretend to, is only from the will of theimpofer. Now Sir , may a man ask you without putting you inco a chafTe., what an over-rating of thefe things is it, f foryoutodebarre, eject, vex and fmite faithful! Shep- herds , fcatter the Flocks, turns fuch Labourers out of the Vine-yard who have a feal of their being the fent . Embafiadours of Jefus Chrift upon the Souls of many, and a Teftimony of faithful fervants intheConfcien- ces of fome of their grand Oppolites , as hath been found when their Conicience began to fpeak , and they fa;v themfelves ready to be filled before the righteous Tribunal of God , and that for no other caufe , but becaufe they qui ft not do as you would have than , in adoreing vour Dagon -, and upou the other hand , to compleat your wickednefs , th: ufting in Men upon thefe Flocks , who were bereft of fuch as did ftand and feed in the ftrength of the Lord , without any- thing elfe to commend or qualifie them , fave that ye knew them to be of fuch mettal and complexion , as they would not decline nor dif~ pute Anfwered. 47 puteyourimpofitions , which is certain as to matter or fact, that I might here appcahoyour ownCon- fcience&to theConfcienceofthechieie men who are chiefein the tianfgreflion , redeeming them who ad- here to their Covenant? keep the Commands of God, and have the Teftimcny of Jems Chi ill, becaufe they will not ackowledge and fubmit to fuch obtruded Intruders as the fern & called Minifters of JefusChrift, if they would con. mitt the keeping of their degs, the careing for their fwine , or the feeding of their horfes to perlons who had fo little skill to do , and faithful- ness to performe it, as meft of thefe have , to v. horn, the flock of Cod purchafed with his own Blood is committed. Sir, this is an over-rating with a witnefs, and fuch as , if ye will rate right and reflect upon it, may , and certainly will , 1:11 your Soul , with hor- rour : if the wrath of God be come upon them to the utter moft who forbid his Sent Servants to fpeak unto his people thefe words , by which they mull be faved, it only argues a judicial blindnefs ofminde& benum- nednefs of Confcience , in the chiefeofyoiirpartie and promoters ©f that inteieft , that their lyatlenels to the wrath of God Almighty, for the defolations made in his Sanciuary by them , doth not make them roar by reafonof the difquietnefs of their heart , and cry out as perfons againft whom the tenors of God have fttt thtmielves in array. I might tell you of an over, rating alfo, of w hich ye (as we have in part heard already) and your companions glory , wherein the very fundation of cur Salvation is ftruckat , vi% fuch an over-rating of works and our pitiful performances, as advances them to the altitude of being the condi- tion ofthejuftification of a (inner before God, and is utterly inconfiftent with the tenour of the Covenant of Grace \ the unhap pie Author > whom we laft named, hath 4$ The firft Dialogue hath led you and your companions into this ditch alfo, and ye glory in this shame ; but I shall forbear the . difcovery of your dangerous folly and falfe-hood , about this great foundation of Salvation by you put outofcourfe, till I come to examine your fixt Dia- logue. It was only fit here to give the Reader an hint, and let him fee what over-raters ye are. But Sir , why are ye fo shye as to shun the true known.and common definition of Superftition given by Godly and Learned Men : ye know that that excellent definition , given by %ancky > and followed by other great men , makes Superftition to confift in the addition of Ceremonies in the worship of God not inftituted by Chrift , as well as in the addition of more fubftantial matters ; but i eafiely forefeing that this would not ferve your evil defigne of loading the Servants of Chrift with re- proach and calumnk , and that the bulk of your bur- denfome Ceremonies muft be rejected as reprobate mettal, if nothing pafs for current as a part of worship in the Church , but what hath the Seal and imprefs of God upon it, ye fubftitute in its place one where- with ye are at prefent better pleafed , but with what advantage to your caufe I leave it to be judged* Put fir , fince you do not ingage further upon the head of Superftition? thenfirfttocaftitintofucha mould as mayfute your defigne 5 and having done fo > then to cafttheiniquitieof it upon us, I shall at prefent fatifl fy my felf with what is faid 5 and for your further fa- tisfa&ion I will give you all the aflurrances you can require , both in my own name , and in the name of all the N> C. that when ever you are able to inftruft your challenge , we will thank you for your charitie ; And if your evidence as to proof anfwere your confi- dence in the charge , yee shall find us fo far from a per- tinacious obftinacie 3 that we will abandon with a blush Anfvvered. 49 blush , whatfoever of Superftition we might through ignorance have indulged in our way , and in the mean time reft confident that, as, in demonftration of my reality in what 1 undertake} I shall endeavour hence- forth to affect my own heart more and more into a deep abhorrence at j and deteftation of> all your ab- jured uliirpations , Antifcriptural methods , and Epif- copal impotitions , in the matters of God , and * fo far as I am able , shall interpofe with all the People of God to do the fame j Yec Sir , there is one thing more before we part ; I mult tell you that when I confider your ftraine thorow the whole, by the fuperftidous over-rateing of things, imputed unto^us in your firft, and our being charged with our overprizing of Ordi- nances in the next , with the neglect (as you fay) of your Moralitie, and your ftretch of charity for Papifb^ with your infinuat cenfures of all who haveftood up in the defence of the abfolutenefs and immurabilitie of the Decrees of God , the efficacie of his Grace Sec. againft Arminltns , which is to your moderation and latitude but a digladiation about niceties and curiofi- ties \ 1 fay Sir , when I confider thefe things , and grant you the common Privilege acclaimed by every man , to be optimw interpret fuorum verborum , the bejl expounder 0; hps own words, I muft take this to be your meaning, that we are fuperftidous over- raters of things in ftanding at fo great a diftance from 'Papifls , and m contending with Arminians , about thefe things in controvert betuixt them and us : and becanfe we are not caft into that new convenient mould of yours , whereby you can coutch inder and comply with anv mutation in the matters of God , and in your profound heights, ds^p filences, abstractions and novell latitude, tush at all thefe things as not to be contended ior , aid defpife all the men who are not caft in the new m?uld D of 50 The "firft Dialogue of your pcrfe&ion , as pitifull Puuies of the loweft. fife j this we fee is manifcftly your meaning , and truely Sir,l only regrate we are 10 litle worthy of your indig- nation, and that the truths of God are not more deare to us, and that the Zeal of his houfedoth not more eat us up. And while you contemne thefe things as not to be contended for , to make the world beleeve your holy fire is not extinguished 3 though nothing of its flame appear, about the confervation oftheie, (to us precious things though to you deipicable , ) ye would make all thefe iiirringsfor them, and ftriveings about them > to be the fparkles of a fuperftitious wild fire, and not a flame of God. 1 cannot remember how Plinie, in his Epiftle to Trajan, does paint the tender and confcientious Practice of the Primitive Chriftians with the fame vermilion of Superftition -y but I am apt to think , it is ftill the fame Spirit of op- pofition to the Puritie of Ordinances , power and practice of Godlinefs , which prompts men to thefe unjuft representations of fuch , as dare not run the famecourfe with them, or who are conftrained by the love of Chrift to hold faff that, which is below their Luke* warme temper to contend for. But I need not be further folicitousinthis vindication,' being, confident that you are notable toprofelyte intoabe- licfc of this reproach any fober or rational men , nor will I envie you the advantage you are like to reap as a juft retribution from every unprejudiced Reader;and that is, not to be beleeved afterward when ye fpeak the truth, having with fo much calumnious confidence folicited them into the beliefe of what they knowto be a falfehood. But Sir , to shut up this Dialogue with you , though raro vidi Clcricum pemt extern I have feldome feen a Clergyman a repeater hath been moftly verified in the meh3who have perverted rhe right wayes Anfwercd. 5 1 wayes of the Lord' yet theCalumnie is fogrofsand groundlefs , that I would willingly flatter my felf into a hope > that when ye think on what ye have faid , yc will fmite upon your thigh, and be brought to an acknowledgement of the fin ofunjuft accufein^the brethren : And I afTiirc you Sir, our joy would lie al- moft equal with your advantage , to fee you weep over the falshoods , and calumnies, and evil defigne, of this firft borne of your ftrength. The Second DIALOGUE Anfwered. YOu begin with a queftion , What great goo dneffe it was which fo commended our P.-rtie ? and having made your N. C. make a pitifull fimple vaunt , thar. you may out-vaunt him, you proceed to accufe and cenfurej as you lift. Sir if we dared to make our- fel ves of the number, or com pare our lei ves with them that commend themfelves , we want not mat- ter wherein we might indulge a little to the foolish- nefTcofboafting ; butfeeing that he whom the Lord comm^ndeth , and not he who commendeth himfelf is approved, we will not boaft of things appertaining toourfelves; but endeavour that all our Glorying ntay be in the Lord. 1 have already told you , how ith his Miniftefy , and thac Minif. C 2. tery 5z The fecond dialogue. tery with Power and Preience; It was he who gave- the word , and great was the company oj thefe that Publiflied if, it was he who clothed his Pricits with Salvation , and made his people to shout for joy : It was he who in the more fpecial times and shinings of his love ? made the Graces of his People to flow , and Souls were ravished with thefe diicoveries : And if not only in the Publick AfTemblies Gods fear was Great , but Families alfo did feek him apart; If the vulgarwhom you undervaluingly fo name , did great- ly delight in the Law of the Lord , and the Sabbath was called a delight , the holy of the Lord honoura- ble j we cannot but account thefe great matters , and the very paths and Methods which do moft afluredly lead to the great hights of Chriftianity ; Yea finely thefe Goipel Ordinances do lead unto the living God , and to Jefus the Mediatour of the New Cove- nant , and unto Communion with him , and the Par- ticipation of all Graces. I know there is a shorter way3which too many take, who forming unto themfelves faire Ideas , and words of Self -deny at , refignaiion , abJira&ion of rninde , and the like? do entirely and pleaiantly reft in thephan- fie , and talk of thefe things, and as much of afpecious outward converfe as may in io'me fort falve their re- putation , from, thefe many forfeitures , which by the mifull accommodations oftheir love of eafe , they manifeftly incurre : and thefe men commonly in their felf-elevation, do not only light the i rue Ordinances, and from the infirmities of iraile men intruded there- with , do take advantage to meek • but licenie them- felves unto an abfolute compliance with every mode and dreis , in Church-Government and worship, vhich humane tolicie, or Sathans Malice pleale to invent: nothing legarding how much thereby they may Anfwfcred. 53 may make themfelves partakers of the Perjury,BIoud and Violence, which promove, and the Profanity, that tblloweth the courfes that they approve ; but as they prudently provide for their own advantage ancl credite, by the abuied pretext ofanillimitcd refpect to Authoritie, Co they eafily quiet all the reluftan- cies of their in ward Light , with any verball>flender> and inoffenfive diftent. This is the New convenient contrivanceof Religion, which indeed defires to be admired, for its pretended Mortifications, high at- tainments, and peaceful enjoyments; but in effect , doth only recommend it felf, by aluke-warme and quiet indifferenciein the Matters of God , a flattering and fafe deference to Authority , and a finfull and i weet veneration of outward peaceAVhether your dif- courfe and pra&ife do favour or not of this way , I do not judge : I hope the ferious feekers of God will ft ill fee and ask for the Old Paths, and do know that it is the Good way, wherein neither by a Phaniaick shew of external devotion , nor yet by vain and No- tionall pretendings , but by humble and fincere wait- ing upon God , in the means of his own appointment, th^y have really attained to thefe graces inthe names whereof you boaft, and fo do rinde reft to their Souls: And certainly it to fuch the prefent fad alteration (which, for the former light , power and frequen- ce , obferved in the AfTemblies of the Lords People, hath covered his houfe with darkenefs , death and de- folacion) doth minifter fuitable reflections , it can be no matter of wonder : When DarJd remembred thefe things , and did confiderthe like changes , he poured oat his foul in him , becaufe he had gone with the multitude , and went with them to the houfe of God > with the voice o joy and praife : for this Jeremiahs beartdi d faint,' forthefe things were his eyes dimme D $ becaufe 5 4 The fecond Dialogue becaufe of the Mountain of Zion which was dcfolate, . the foxes walking upon it : O what want had they of you for a comforter , who could have carried them farre above tbefe external shaddows , and taught them R^fignations and abjiraBions, in fuch a hight , that nei- therthe corruption , nor the removing or Gods Or- dinances , should have overclouded their EafejuU Scremtv ? But you infinuat, that N. C. do overprice Ordi- nances , and undervalue MorAitie, 1 have already told you j that this is but a calumny , and that an holy and pure converfation , is the greateft and belt pare of Religion, is not by us in the left queftioned ; with- out the endeavour of holinefie ; the other parts may pollibly in Hypocrifie be pretended, but cannot in- deed have any reality, only remember that Chrift Je- fus who is our ail, is alio our Sanairication , and let your Morality be indeed Christianity. In the next place , you fall upon Particulars and alleage. That our Discipline was wholly different from the rules of the Gojpell , and far short oj that of the Ancient Bishops -, This you inftancc in our Kirk Sef- fions , which you fay were like Birlaw Courts. I will not examine your expreflions , but your reafons. You tell us firfithsit the Church fbould only Medle with Sins a:- the" are f can dais, and not as they are injuries * whereas our S efforts cogyiofced upon wrongs which belonged to the Jsdagiftrat. But pray Sir , May not the fame Offence be both as a wrong cognofcible by the Magiftrat , for the reparation of the Plaintiff?, and punishment of the Delinquent, and as a fcandal appertain to Church cenfure, for the reproofe and amendment of the Of- fender, reconciling of the offended , and inftru&ion of all ? Certainly it cannot be denied : Now feeing our Seilions did only medle vvithSinnes , under the fecond Anfwcred. 55 fxond formality , what doth your challenge amount to? This matter is tome Co plain , that 1 incline to think , that the too Narrow acceptation of Scandal , for the offence of one Brother againft another , with- out any external injury , mult be the only ground of your fcruple ; but as all injurie is attended with a very fenlible Scandal , and every open fin hath alfoa Ge- neral hardning Scandal in it , for which it is to be re- buked before all, that others alfomay fear,- fo its neceflarily previous triall, cannot in reafon be feparat- ed from its commanded rebuke. But your next ob- jection carping at the ailations made to thefe Courts j becaufe not preceeded by private Admonition made by the partie offended , shews more plainly your miftakc , in as much as the Gofpel order of Admoni- tion can only have place in private offences , in the which cafe it was alio by us obferved. But to re- quire the like Method in Publick offences , is mani- festly to exempt from their cenfureall open fins, which being equally offenlive unto all , render this proce- dure wholly improper. 3. You object That our Church Seflions did exaEl Fines : but if you confider , that thefe Fines which you mention are particularly impoled and determined by Statute , and thereby ap- pointed to be applyed to pious ufes : And therefore the demanding and uplifting thereof only, afwell for the more fummare and effectual reftraint of fin, as for the end whereto they are d ftincd , in ufj to be exercifed by Kirk Selfions , or rather by their Olfice: s and Bedels in deficiency of the Magistrate , who should have been appointed in every Paroche for that effect, this your fcruple mult quickly ceafe: but if. you ftill think that notvvithltandmg both the mainer atnl convenience of this practife , the famine is unfuit- ableto a Church ludicatorie, do ye not ftrain at a C 4 Gnat,- 56 The fecond Dialogue Gnat , and (Wallow a Camel : nay a monftruous one Vi% your Spiritual Lords in the higheft temporall Courts where both civil and capital punishments are Irrogated and in Aided. 4. You fay that we forced people toftoup to our Discipline by threatning them with the Temporal! [word. Sir, this is a great untruth , we never owned nor exercifed High Commiflions , And if obilinat tranfgrerTburs were then, and ftill be , pu- nishable by the Laws of the Land, wherefore feek you to make this our burthen ? 5. You fay that the the time of our pennance was fl^ort ; the ancient Bishops did feparat offenders at many years , as we did weekj* Juft now you accufed us of rigour , and here you com- plean of our lenity , And not remembring that the A ncient Bishops , did not more exceed us in ftri&nefs ofDifcipline, then we do exceed the Modern, You are not ashamed to make your own floth the Charge of our Mediocrity. However, the lawfull, though various , regulations of Prudence ('whereof according to the diversity of times and circumftances , things undetermined by Scripture are acknowledged to be capable) may fufFIciently reconcile any apparent dif- crtpancteinourpraclile , from that of the Ancients. 6. You fay , we ufed Discipline to put a temporal shame upon Offenders. Again we are too Rigid : but where- fore may not Difnpline be ufed to shame Offenders , as well as the difobedient are commanded to be not- ed and feparated from , that they may be asham- ed f zThef. 3. 14. And the lnceftuous perfon is ordained to be delivered to Sathan jor the deftrutlun of the flejh , 1 Cor. $. 5. As for your Phanfie , that Penitents ate more Ga%cdat-> as you phrafe it, upon the high place you mention, then at the Church doore, we are not of your Opinion, and the Church doore was ever thought a place of more obvious obfervance, and Anfwered. 57 and fevere pen nance, 7 You lay we wretchedly abufed Difcipline by fubje&ing people to Cenfure for trifling mut- ters j and that MmiiUrs were more jealous againjt oppo- fitionto their courfs , then again Jl oppofition to the Ever- lofting GoJpeL But Sir as thefe trifling matters , which 1 fufpeft you hint at , were no Idle then the whole im- port of the prefent differences ; fo , whether the op- pofition you make fo lighr or, hath not in the event proven a molt pernicious oppofmionto the Everlait- ing Gofpel let any ierious Soul judge ? This vindication , whereuntoyehave engaged me for our Kirk felhons , obliges me to add in their be- half, that although thefe Courts be very low 3 and plain in themlelvcs- yet hath their excellent ufe, for the fuppreffing of all ungodlincfle , been alwayes very oblervable. 1 need not go back to former times , nor adduce , as I may , even JC? lames his exprefle Tefti- monie $ to reprefent the notable and effectual influence of their right exercife ; the prefent increafeof Propha- nity, through the ceafingof this remedy , and the moft ordinary jeer of diffolute Perfons , taxing one another for their exorbitancies , with this icoffing regrate , Oh for a ftricl^ Kjrk. I arc too obvious confirmations : And truely , as , J have often marvelled to fee a thing fo mean in appearance, fo much the eye fore and fcorne of Proud licentious Perfons ; So I doubt not but this confideration alone , by pointing out the rcafon , may abundantly fatilfy all ferious fciuplers. From your diflatiffaction with our Kirk Seffions you gotoraxeour Mh.ljlers their Libertie and Manmr of reproving {in. And as to the mft,you do fo invidiously exaggerat their dealing in order to the late King , and Jiim who now Reigneth , that I cannot di fie mole my furprizal , at your fo cxcefllve and abufive Railing on the Miniftcrs of Chrift, and fomew hereof vou your D 5 fcl£ 5$ The Second Dialogue felffay, within c wo leaves , are very good men? fear- ing God , but ail are here reproached without diftinc- tion 5 as Unnatural Hams , Incendiaries , open Lyars, inhumane , unchriflian and malhiow Perfecutors of the memory of a pious dead Prince and that with the bight of infolench and barbaritie : Deliver my Soul o Lord from lying lips , and from a deceitful tongue. Sir I pretend not to your Privilege to fcold in a meeke Jpirit , and to lie walkingintlie Spirit and fdfoood*. But as I cannot but commend your wifdome, in trifting the vent of your rage and malice againft: the Lords Minifters > to fuch a fubject , not more advantageous againft a retri- bution? then apt to point the keen arrows of your fpite, vvich a moft mortal odium ; fo were it not for the reall and high refpecl: , that I bear to the Perfon , and many excellent qualities of our deceafed Prince ; and the dutie I owe the now King, nothing elfe could refuge you from the full returnes of a juft resentment. Pairing rherefore the many horrid Blafphemies , Lies and Reproaches , wherewith your Clergie during thefe unhappie wars did not ceafe continually to profcind the Caufeand People of God , more precious to him then all the Monarchs on Earth, and did moft inftantly labour to render both dctefhhly hateful unto the Prince? until they brought all to mine: I shall in a few fober words , vindicat the Lords fervants from all thefe umbrages and appearances, whereby you endeavour to fet off your reproach. That the late King by Qvil Counfel > fpecially that of unconfcionable and ungrate Prehts , wickedly abufing , for their own ends, a Confcientious Prince unto a fatal obftinacie , was precipitat into many groffe errours of Govern- ment , fuch as anexcellive indulgence to Papifts, ille- gal and violent exactions , many unufuall and high at- tempts againft fundamental Laws and Liberties, a ftrans^e Anfwered. 59 ftrange connivance at the Irijh Rebellion,and at length, a bloudy and pertinacious war againft his Parliaments, his greateft and belt friends and Couniellours j it wis not the invention of evil affected men or Minifters , as you alleage , but the fad evidence of plain deeds, and the unanimous verdict of theie mod capable and pro- per to difcern. Now if in this ftate of things , the Lords Minifters, favouring his righteous Caule, did endeavour, by a true repreientation, both to avert the People from , and animat them againft evil coui- fes , deftructive to Religion and Right ; wherein are they to be reprehended f You fay they charged the King with ali \ But know you not that as whatever patted upon the Kings iidc, did beare theimprefle of his Name and Authority , fo they did continually charge the guilt and vvickedneffe of all , moftly upon bad Counfei , praying the Lord unceiTantly , with much tendeincfTe to the Kings Perfon , that the Wic- ked might be removed from about the Throne, that fo it might have been eibblished. And as to what yon alleage , That contraire to Humanity and Cbriftianhy they did Pcrfccute the memory of that Prince after his death and that with the bight o tnfoltncu and barharitie , in the pre fence of his Son , who now reigneth. It isacalumnic, which you are not able to juftifv : Its true they wished and moved the Kin^ to repent , of his acceffion to, and mourne for the oppofnion to the work or" God , violence and bloud , wherein his Father was unhappi- ly engaged , and from w hich the Throne , except by ferious Repentance? will never be purged. If this be the Inhumane , In'blent and Barbarous raking into his ajhes which you lay to their charge , you remem- ber little , and fear lehe, thejealoufieof God , who lifitab the iniquity of the Fathers upou the Children to the third and fourth Generation : Neither doe you confider, that 6o The fecond Dialogue that the ftain of Blond is fuch,fpecially upon a Throne, ' that the unfeigned teares, even of the Author-, do nocw3shic away. Eqrah and Nehemiah mourned and repented for the Provocation of Kings and Princes , many Agespaft, without the leaft reflection upon their memories. Seeing therefore, that the pra&ifes where- upon you found thefe high accufations > were alto- gether confonant to the Word of God , and the Prin- ciple? then acknowledged both by King and People, and to which in Confcience , we do, and muft foil adhere , doth not your apparent bearing with us in the main , and yet lo virulently inveighing againft a ciear dependencie, mamfeftly difcover more then an inveterate malice ? As to our Miniiters their manner of reproving fin , you fay tbev reproved not in fecrct , but triumphed in the Pulpit without contro/l , and againft abfents , and that either out of Malice , or ofientation. Thus the tumor railed bythepoifon of your laft calumnie doth frill fwell , and you forget that you your felf are vainly triumphing in Print againft a Mock-adverfarie : But as you cannot veritie , that ordinarely , or allowedly , fecrct reproof was omitted > where there appeared rea, fon , and acceffe for ic \ io 5 I am confident , your allegeance hath no better ground, then, that Mini- iters ior the ftrengthning of the Lords people , did freely hold out the Apoftacie and wickednefTe of his dechred Enemies, for whom fuch a reproofe had been but in vain intended. In the next place you tell us , that the Sermons of our Miniftersy mere no Extraordinary things. Sir I will not compare, I am no lover of Extraordinary things • bur I heartily wish that fuch preaching were now more Ordinary ; to believe, and therefore tofpeak, though withfpeach contemptible, is certainly infinite Anfwered. 61 ly more gl'acefull , then to (peak j even Seraphickly ? and inpiaftife to counter-aft. There is a Foolishneffe of Preaching com mended by Paul ■> above the wifdom of man : V, hether you would value it as an Ordinary or Extraordinary thing I know not ? But this Epithet of Extraordinary , which you ieeme to deliderat , is very little confonant to Linkers Opinion , Hi fiint optimi ad Pop-alum Concionatores , qui puerilitir, popula- rity, & quam fimplicifjime docent. Thej'e are thebefl Preachers unto 'the People , trho teach in a plain, homely* and moji JimtU wav4 Youadde> that their Sermons were half fluffed with Public^ Matters , nothing con- cerning Souls : Why do you Hyperbolize ib widely in prejudice of Truth ? You know publick Matters were not medled with, but in a clear exigence, and if fomedid exceed, others were defective ; andthefe were the infirmities of both; but you tell us , That thefe things concerne not Souls. This is a touch of your Convenient Religion* Pray Sir, are Publick Maters transacted without private mens accellion ? or in this acceilion , hath Confcienct no concernment t Nay are not the folid pra&ifes of Chnftianity , fucli, as the contempt of the World , for the mofi part , molt ncceflaire and confpicuous in Wreitling with, and overcoming, the great and frequent temptation of a publick fintul courfe ? But O the rare temper of this New device , that both inwardly elevats to the high- eft Spiritual abftraclions , and outwardly fmooths to a moft eafie temporizing cotnplyance ? You lav further , t hat t he folid PraHifes ofChrifiia* nhy were (car.ee ever named* and that vertue was little Preached bv u< , and far lef.e PraBifed : but why do you make To little Confcience of truth? Your often touching upon this firing, with theprefumptionof Common ingenuity , vvluch I have and defire tore- tain 6 1 The fecend Dialogue. tain for all men, have made me apply to all conjec- tures , to find out your ground for this allegance ', but in the end I fee it is a plain forgerie. The Lord knows that I am far from boafting of former Pra&ifes , but that in this fo vifible a change , attending the prefent Eftablishment , from the Generall reftraint and aw of Sin , that before did oblige even the molt profligat, unto a feeming conformity , unto thefe confefled a- boundings of ail manner of profanitie , which do now rill the Land, you should have the confidence to fay ♦ that venue was by w little Preached and far lefle PraBifed, is that , which, I am fure , thefe of yonr own way do laugh at , and which , if ever ye returne to the right way ye will weep at. And yet you proceed , to oppone to us our $4- viours Sermons , Particularly that upon the mount : I will not contend with your Mockeries. I wish that both yours and ours may reflect on short comings , and endeavour amendment according to that pattern. Next you fay , Thlt the true bights of Spirituality were 4> little preached as the living in abstraction , Jilence >foli- tudc , and the fliil contemplations of God , the becoming tkdd 1 0 all things , and being much in Secret fafiings. Sir vou arc fo much upon your bights , that you fee nothing about you .Pray defcend a little and confider that your own Minifte'-s are as great ftrangers to thefe fine ex- prdlions of yours, and you and they to the things fig i , to fay no worfe, as ours are , and much more t And in effed feeing that you only meafure your felf bvyourfelf, you are not wife ^ and this affc&ed no- veltie of words doth argue litle finceritv. But ifCow- tnunionttith God, fellowship with the Father and with his Son Jefm Christ , a heart and converfation in hea- ven, Chrij} our Life, dying iajlp viflorie over the World? and the like > may relish with you 3 in this , ii Courfer , vet Anfwcrcd. 63 yet Scriptural ftyle , our Jvlinifters, I am fure, were not unfrecjuent in prclling of them , and fecret pra\ ers and laftingsalfo , and > I am confident , their Mini- ftiie hath a feal yet abiding,, which may vvitnefs that ithath not been unfruitfull. I cannot follow vou in your again repeated accufa- tion , as if our Minifters had only preached a Pharifaicl^ cbfervance of Ordinances , and a bare rely ance on Chrift ' without obedience to his Go (pel. Thefe are only your al- legeances deftitute of truth. Your next charge is that our Minifters handled nice fubtilties > which they catted. Cafes of Confcience. But Sir, as you grant that fome d.vout people may be under doubtings , and fears ; fo in reafon , you muft allow, not onlyaprivat appli- cation for their remedy , but alio Publick Doctrine, both neceflaire for prevention , and conducible for cure : that in this there was an excefle , I believe few would have imagined, unlefs you had faid it; Yet when I call to minde j what men of Confcirncethc generalise of your Partie arc , and how in effect , un- acquainted with , nay declared Enemies to , all tender- ne(Te thereof, if you had termed Confcience itfelf , a Melancholy Imagination , as well as Cafes cf Confcience , hice futilities , it had added but little to my wonder. As for what you adde That it is unfufferable to hearpeo* fie who led but common Ifcts tdkeo)]uch things ; It is 2 truth which I have often heard our Minifters aHm , as alio , that the beft way of filencing all doubts > is , as you fpeak, to act Faith, renew Repentance , ftudy Holinefle , Humility , and the other great practifes of Chriftianity : Why then are you fo Divifive, as to object things to us , w herein we do not differ \ But a- las the reafon is too evident *, the defigne to render us Odious mult be obferved, andpurfued by all Arts • And therefore > when you cannot contradict the Power, 64 The fecond Dialogue Power, that appeared in, and the fruit of Converfion and Edification, which accompanyed our Minifters preaching, Yet your eye being evil, by carping hints at Methods, and by unnecelTary cautions , youfuggeft the things , which you have not the confidence to object : Thus you b:d Your N. C. See that by Power, be do not mean a Tone in the voice, A Grimace in the fact (S'c. andb< Converfion a change in Opinion, cr out- ward behaviour, influenced bv Intertft ; But Sir , as both in Power and the fruit of Converfion , our Minifters have been througly made manifcit amongft us ; fo I muft add for their Voice andGefture, that although fomeof them might have been rude in fpeach , yet not in knowledge : And if your better breeding , and fight of the Scene , have modelled your Tone and action , above the rate , as you phanfie , of both yours and ours , you but the more marre its ridiculous grace- fuinelTe , by undervaluing others. And as for the ' Converfions attending our preachings , many of them, are tryed and cannot be blafted by your mocking. I Grant fomc were profcly ted , in whom the Evil Spirit having by Apoftacie re- entered with feven more, they are become more the Children of the Devil then they were before ; but feeing they are now yours , make them no: our reproach. Your next challenge, is, that wee termed our Preach- ings the word of God, and ycu tell us that to ca'l them fo, and yet to con 'c fie that Minifters may be mifia} have not only that derived Authority, which the Scripture equally imparts to allRational and found deductions made from it, butalfo , a particular fu- peradded obligation from the Lords CommifTion , wherewith the Preacher is Minifterially cloathed , whence it clearly follows , that , as all true Minifters, their Preachings are in his Name 3 and ought to be agreeable to his Truth ^ fo, the Preachers their admi- xed miftakes , are of no more force , either to deprive Preaching of the name, or thefe things therein , thac are found and true > of the fpecial Authority of the Word of God 5 then the accidental mifcariageofan EmbafTadour , to make void his million , in other things confonant to his i nit ructions. How un found then is your insinuation that The text indeed is the Word of God , but Minifters Gloffes , (by which terme you mockingly understand all Preaching or Expounding^ the words only of fallible men , as if a Minifters found interpretation and application did pertake of Nothing fpeciallfrom the Character which he fuftainsjwhereas you know that not only his Million , doth imprefife his words, with his Matters. Authority ; but hath F alfc 66 The fecond Dialogue aifo many and great Promifes ofaiuitableailiftance.* Having thus cfearedthe Common Caufeof the Mi* mitrie, and that their Preachings when found, are from a fpecial ground the Word of God: That which you fubjoih of Miniftefs their ufurping this name to their Preachings by Way rf Artifice, that thereby they might procure the ci edite of the bfallible and Injpired Propkets,is as far from truth , as their diligence in fearchmgof, and their care of confirming all their Doctrine by the Scriptures, with their frequent and continual intimations-} that the People ought to build all their Faith upon that iure foundation > are notourly known. But you have not yet done with our Minifters, you tell us again , that our great Men were medling Men , and mo ft of them were very little fpirhual in their con- verfation , and Seldom in the Commendation of God and J^eVgion to the People. Sir , omitting your insinuate distinction of Greater and Leffer Minifters amongft us j which you know we acdnowledge , no further , or otherwayes, then the Lords free Grace & gifts do make it: and paifing your accufation oi Medling > which I have already anftvered: As to Spirituality or converfe , it is indeed a thing fo excellent , and beautiful? that it can never be enough ftudied, never enough practifed , and never enough prefled ; but the manner and defigne of your reflection confidered , it isfo void of truth and charitie toward Non-confor- mifts, whereof fo many have been burning and shin* ing Lights , and fofadly applicable to your Clergie > theveryfcumeof Men, let be of Chriftians } that! can only marvel at9 and regret the excefle and confi- dence of your Malice. Pardon me, if theftrange- nefie of your procedour force me to fuch expretlions: 1 proteft fincetelyj your Methods are fo perverfe, that Anfwercd. 67 that I have no greater diffkultie then how to find civil termes, fufticient to detect them : Thus after you have delivered a groundlefs and calumnious challenge of our Leaders, their want of Spirituality , inordinary difcourfe, you hold out its fingular ufefuInefTe; And failing to queftion us , as wholly Grangers to thefe great things of Devotion , and holineffe , which you enumerate , you falfely conclude, tmtly tbefe things are as little among you, as any partie I lijiow : Well Sirt, as I wish heartily that they were more , and that they may flill encreafe , even to your conviction , which , I am certain , requires a degree equall to , if not beyond perfection •, fo , my prayer is, that God who both knows all the darring and open wickednefle and un- godlinefle of thefe of your way, and fees your hearty and weighs your words, may difcover unto you the fin of fpeakjng wickedly , and tallying deceitfully againft him and hisfervants. In the next place , telling us, that wefeeme very de» firous to be noticed in our Religion 9 You charge our Communions as tumultuary, disorderly, and talkative. It's Anfwered, that fometime they were numerous, is not denied ; but if you cenfure Great multitudes their following of Chrifl as tumultuary , and diforderly , it is more then the jews ever did : That our running many miles to them shews its to be Idoli^ers of Men , your ob- j ectedoppon unity of tbe Sacrament nearer hand , doe? not prove it : for as we were far from neglecting nee- rer occalions , or undervaluing any of the Lords fin- cere Servants ; fo, to acknowledge alio and improve the difference of Gifts , which the Lord hath difpen- fed, favours nothing of Idolizing , and cannot , with- out palpable envy , bediflallowed : If in other things I were fatisfisd , and in the Iibertieof a free election, I am confident , that without flighting the call of E Z aeerer 6? The fecond Dialogue neerer invitations , i might chme lather to go tea* miles toyoui Communion, then live to anothers, and ye youcannotfay that J Idolize you. As to what you object That at cur Communions , all our bufinejfe, bcth fa preparation and Participation , wot to hear and talks it is but your mis-information or uilta^e , lam fu: e previous felf examinat on (v\ hether by the names or I„wardjiilhefieandrecollt8ionido not indeed well remember; was alwayes molt lerioufly prefied, and aLo much pra£t: fed, and in the action it felf, a short convenient filence ? was the more general cuftome. As for your other alledged inconveniences of Crcud and Diftratlion, thefe are but the peculiar averfions of your particular Genius, other more ftrong and leffe delicate and nice Spirits did eafily overcome thefe di£- Acuities, You further fay, that You cannot thfal^tbem very devout j who love rather to hear one talj^, then to retire inwardly and commune wuh their own hearts ; but what efteem have you for him , who difliking the hearing of others, and pretending to inward retirements3mak- eth the talk of thefe things all his work? And why do ye without ground accufe us of a preference, where- of we are not guilty ? As we hold born Hearing and Meditation to be duties, and beautiful in their lea- fons; fo , we endeavoured to practife, without ei- ther the Partiality which you object ? or its contrary which you incurre, O but you add e that fome tf its mill be many hours in Publicly worship 3 and perhaps not a quarter of an hour infecret. That there may be fuch amongftus, and wor/e, I nothing doubt ; but if you intend this for an accufaticn, either againit our way, or the Generality that own it, it is an allegeance, for which our Father who feeph infecret will in due tim e rebuke you. Another Anfwered. 69 Another fault which you rind about our Commu- nions is thtir inj rcquencie as being brought by m jrom the dayti praElke of the ^Apo files , and the after frequent, cuslome of the tvbole Chttrch , to oiicc a year , Mr> you know io well the Churches power , and the dif- fering obfervations that have been inufe, as to this circumltance of time , that I think although your diiacisfa&ion had been founded on better grounds ; Yet you should have been tender to make of it an ob- jection . Thar the Primitive Church did foon fall from the ririt dayly celebration, your own Argu- ment grants: whit was the after pra&cc, and is at prefentyour cuftome , I need not mention : it is cer- tain that neither the one, nor tne other, do agree to your ru'eof Weekly Communio.is. Su in the year this Sacrament should be admimftrate: Now if we liking better a joint then a feparate partici- pation of the people of the fame Parish , and know- ing that the particular exigences and defires , poifibly incident to private Chriftians, might be eaftly fupplied in other places , none being tyed to any fixed time , did therefore not fo often celebrate , and for the mod part but once a Year , trueiy I think that the variation from the former frequencie, was vifibly compenfed wich a greater advantage of Solemnity. As for your demands why the Qommnmon was not keept every Lords E 3 day( 70 The fecond Dialogue day? It*s anfwered,as there is no command for it , Co. ■ you have already heard , that we wanted not reafon- able considerations, which did perfuadethe contrarie. For the hint you give of the ftri& notice should be ta- ken of receivers , I have often heard our Church char- ged with the exceiTe , but never before with the defctt m this particular. You fall next to cenfme the pofture of fitting in time cf Publicly prayer , as very irreverent. Sir , not to de- tain you I am not far from your opinion ; For my own part , and 1 have many of our way afftming , I dislike fitting iii prayer, (if infirmity and other great incon- veniences do not hinder it ) and for proof of it > I adde to your anfwere made to the inftance of Davids fitting before the Lord- i Qhron. 17. 16. That h^ who con- fidcreth the occafion of David's addrefs, even the gra- cious and high exalting meffage that the Prophet had delivered to him , with the tenour of his words , ex- preffing rather an aftonishing Meditation of wonders, not able to forme if felf at nrft into either direct pray- er , orpraife, then any thing els, will find no diffi- culty ^acknowledge that the decent enough proprie- ty, yea almoft the neceffity of fitting in fuch an op- preiling amazement , cannot rationally be drawn in confequence : but as in this w e agree , fo I cannot but difagree from you in your overwriting and exacting the poftures that you plead for ; for though I amcon- vinced that there is an indecencie, and other incon- veniences in fitting > for which I wish , that when- ever it may be , it were wholly difufed ; Yet I am far fi om offending at , let be impofmg upon , theft who of no intended irreverence , but for the moft part from a juft difguft of the too great weight hath been laid upon fuch circumftaaces , do innocently practife jr. I confefrethat kneeling and Handing in prayer, are ■-**'•■*■ in 'Anfwered. 71 in the Scriptures very riequently mentioned : but as thereby the thing is only ciJvU.nihiKiilly noted, and no where > no not in thefe invitations , O contact m worfhip and bow down (where the Geitue is only men- tioned as the more Ordinary , and the Jiibfhnceex- horted to) defig iedly preyed $ So there are alio upon record , fuch clear inuunces of an undetermined Hour- ly in thefe matcers , apparent enough in our Lord nis Difciples and Company, their Ordinary^/fo/Vig down to meat , and blelllng and giving thanks in chat polture, that I cannot buc ftrange ac your bringing any of thefe practices under an obligation : Buc that which i do mod admire, is, that you who juft now were celling us that even heavenlj Publicly praters , Fafts, Commu- nions y keepingthe Sabbath > and the like, are but exter- nal! devotion p, 16. And fpirhuaJi things of avert lot? fy^e and degree fuch as cannot can on to pert tBiqn P Zo. should on a fiidden defcend fo far belovv your fpirhuall bights and great Chriftian Practices , as to debaie about Sitting or Standing's the Cardinal points of Religion Nay to fuch a heat 5 that though you do no: fay ♦ you would feparate upon this ground fromcheJe Sitters; Yec infubftance you fay noleis* , then that vou wo Ad be content that they did feparate from You->m& io do both approve and wish for a feparaiion : sir , you are difcovered beyond the difguifing of all your shirts : God grant you to confider it. And alfo how neer this doth approach . to what our Lord fayeth , in almoft the like cafe , Tim people honom th me with their Lips > but their heart a ar from me -> howbeit , in vaindot'iey worship me, teaching , or Doctrines the Commandments of Men : for laving ifidethc Commandments of God, ye hold the Tradition of menK Your next reflection is upon the Family-TVorVip that was fo frequent in former times, and heieyou E 4 taxe 72 The fecond Dialogue caxe Matters of Families , Tor Expounding Scripture , and wish that we do not overvalue other lawfull exercifes. Sir,asto what yow make yourN-Cfay of Expounding Scriptiire5 1 look upon it as a meere fuggeftion of your own, that yow may finde fomthing to reprehend even in our beft performances : You know all that was al- lowed in the directions for Famiiie- Worship , was, that Matters with their Families should read theScrip- tures with underftanding , and by mutuall conference Edifie one another , neither are you 3gainft Expoun- ding by Matters , who are very intelligent ; And for the practice 5 it was in effect fo rare , and imperfect , that I am confident your accufation of excefle to mod N. C. will only prove a check for their deficiencie. As for your Wish I verily think h good 3 but no good wish. When the calling upon the Name of the Lord in Families is now fo umverfally and irreligioufly flight- ed, and by many openly mocked at , think you it a feafon for fichover-cautelous advices.-3 Nay Sir, in this fo fad and Lamentable decline of this dutie to the ex- treme of neglect and contempt, groundlefly to cau- tion againft the other, of an over-value, is but to har- den the wicked , who forget God , and weaken the hands of fuch as feeke his face in finceritie. From this point, in the eagernefle of your purfute of the people of God , you paiTe to private meetings. And with you I can grant, that they have had both their ufe and abufe, I can grant alio that, in the fetled plentie of pure Ordinances, to bring Church-exercifes to Cham- bers j or private conference to a publick confluence, is ( in my opinion ) fuperfluous and affected • Not that I would have Religion wholly attricted in its exerci- fes, to. Churches j Families, or to Mens Clofets: but as 1 acknowledge a communication and fpeech alway with Grace, to be the very fait of Christians their con- <• ■- yerfe. [ Anfwered. 73 verfe, & would judge nothing more becoming then to fee Religion foferioufly & conftantly minded, that men were purfuing&obferving its occafions more then thefe,either or butlinefs or recreation;fo I think to conT trive& keep particular meetings with a vifible affecta- tion of fingularity were a thing juftly to be avoided ; &thus in our better times, it was commonly both held &'followed. ButSir, ye muft fuffer me withal to tell you,thatas Satan had afpeciallenvyatthefe,perceiv- ing how much , when in finglenefs and fincenty gone about, and performed with juft caution, they did con- tribute to the grouth , comfort, and mutual! edifi- cation of the Sain:s ; and therefore to make the thing it felf odious, he abufed the well- meaning honefty of fome, and ufed the finifter defignes of others toatur- ning of thefe out of their proper channels , that fo they might mils of their juft ends: though I muft tell you, that to talk fo much of thefe juftly reprehend - bleefcapes, without incouraging to the dutie, where- by fo many have reaped advantage, feems to be a fault no lefs challengeable in a Minifter of the Gof- pel , one part of whofe work it is , if he be a worker together with God , to exhort his hearers to comfort themfelves together) and edifie one another, then any of thefe abufes amongft private Perfons in fucli meetings, againft which you with fo much eagernefs exclaime : it would no queftion much better become one careing naturally for ye flock of Chrift , and car- rying as a faithful! Feeder , to bealliduous in preffing the dutie, carefull in directing , and deeply afft&ed with any advantage that Sathan got over the Saints, in theufeoffucha mean, then to publish to the world his victories , that the thing it felf might pafs for a vice. As for the practice of Private Meetings in evil times, all your fuppofed and accidental inconvenien- ces , to which even the bell of things are obnoxious , 74 The fecond Dialogue are for from making me condemn tnat , which to the Lord is very acceptable , and to his People profitable > Md. 3.16. So that , i? the intendment and applica- tion of your Difcourfe be levelled at our latter cuf- tomes , facing you cannot truely charge them with any of thefe evils which you men.tion,and fince your o- pinio 1 doth clearly depend upon your different judges ment as to the main ., 1 muft take liberty to dillenc from you, with the fane conidence wherewith you alTert;it;and withall teli yow chat I wish their frequen- cie did keep a proportion with the deep diftrek of the People or God , in this penury of pure publick preaching ; and then , I am iure, we should have ten for one , and if fo , there were ground of hope that they might , in thefe Private Meetings , pray your Intruders out of their publick capacities, that fo thefe* who now dare not be over . heard in their meetings to mourne for the defolauonof tne Sanctuary, and the departing* of the Giory , might blefs him together in thefe Auemblies , out of which they are thruft and keept, and might once more, as of old, be made glad iu his houfe of Prayer- For a clofe to this Dialogue , you make your N. C. boaft of the glory of our Unitie , to the effect that you may the more foully fet out the dr. ijions that fell out 'amongftus, and to do it with the greater advantage, you endeavour prudently to remove by a preface , the fufpicion of what you are refolved to pra&ife ; and therefore you tell us , You love not the Spirit of detrac- tion ; but whether you be a£ted by it or not , let thefe Epithets you give us, of , Un chrijlian, Malitiowi Brethren in Cruelty , and Implacable , bear witnefs : for my part, though I do fo much deteft divifions , that [ am content to let your reprefentation paffe, with all its excefls , on purpofe , that to all concern- ed Anfwered. 75 cd they may appear more odious , and that if it be the Lords will , even your reproachful tongue , may finite the guiltie into Repentance ; yet iorthe vindication 01 the truth, I mult fay, that fuch hath been its bad fate , and worfe reception in the Earth , that I should looner judge Divifion ; then Unjtie . to be the figne ofOrthodoxie, to be found among a partie^ Perrect unity in. truth , is a blefifing fo great, that it is rekrved for Glory : If you think that our Lord came to fend peace on Earth, remember his own words; J came not to ftr.d peace but a fivord , and to fit a man at variance againftkx Father, (fc. Schifmes muftbe, nay were the very firft temptations and trial of the Church, a- gainft which all the Light and Power of the Apoftles could not guard it . As therefore Sir , you do falfely make us to glory in our LTnity , fo , take head left by making divifion our charge, yow do not far more calumnioufiy reproach theChnitian Faith. Do not imagine that I do hereby patronize divirions $ Nay \ know and am perfuaded, that becaufe there is nothing more repugnant to the Genius, and hurtfull to the progrefle ot Truth , then Contentions , therefore ic is , that the Devil hath even laboured moft to infeft it: withthefe temptations; but I would have you to understand , that feeing thefe ftrifes , whereof youac- cufe us , did certainly proceed from the remaining dreg, and adventitious mixture of aneEvil Spirit, relaxing former Engagements , remitting the firft Zeal, and not a little bending to your way , and from mens corruptions on all hands , although that you could fay that our ccuife did takeaway peace , and in place thereof being War; yet it wowld no more inferre the Spirit that moved therein to be contentious, then you can juftly object againft the bleffed Gofpel of Peace, thefe Sciiifmes, hatred, and tumult?, where- with j6 F The II. Dialogue Anfwered. with ia all Ages it haul moft innocently tilled the World . As therefore our Lord doth make it the greitchira&eriftickofhimfelf, blejfed is he whojoever Jhall not be offended in me , fo let not the heats and con- tefts about TriKh > affright you from its fcarch , or foolishly induce you , unconcernedly, without dif- ftinftion i to condemn all Contenders ; but rather more engage you tofeekeand holditfaft, and highly to efteem all its zealous adherents , where ever you perceive the Devil to beftirre himfelf moft attwely a- gainft it : Surely if this difpofition were in you 3 the offenfe you feem to take , eicher at the greater oppofi- tions betwixt the Friends & AJverfaries of th* Lords work j or thefe humane infirmities where -vith his Servants amongftthemlelves hapened to beexerciied, would foon be removed. As for you Veneration > whereof you judge us u 1 worthy , weacchime k no; > we wish your Mo ft Reverend and Right Reverend did truely merite it , which is ail the Scolding wherewith I repay your Malice, The 77 The third DIALOGUE Anfwered. SIR i you caufeyour N. C. begin this con- ference with fo ;uft an animadveifion upon vcur ieem ing p retenfes to feme extraordinary rublime thing and reall deficiencies, not only in being guilty or our common evils, but alfo in your want ot theiegocd thhgs , w hich you acknow- ledge wereamongftus , that i cannot but wish you had refei ved as n.uch ingenuity to your fell in youi an- fwere > as you make , and acknowledge him to it eak truth in his alledgancc. But in place oi confiderin^ his challenge, ot the evils of your Way, and the fad and ftran^e alteration it hath procurtd , in this poor Church, ycu fubtilly labour to evade, by telling, That you are not fo engagtd , as blindly to defend any r«- t ere ft: you are fo far Lpifcopal , as to lore the Crder, and fubmit to it , but you have net ftrcrn jeahie to any SeB: your prayer is, that alldij,i/.guishing names were buried ': ycu do not patronise , but mourn in Secret , for the fins, that are amor gft you , adding That Non-con* formifts are guiltier oj the prefent leof/tjje then perhaps they think? And thus , after that in your fecond Dia- logue , you have not only riped up , mis-conftrued , and exasperated to the hight, the infirmities of the Men ofour fide; but improved all the invention of calumny > to render them odious , and then charged all ?8 The third Dialogue \ all thefe things dire&ly upon our Way ; when you fee a retortion appear , you inftantly decline it, by infi- nuating the evils to be the faults of men , and no way- es chargeable upon your caufe. I will not complain oF this unei]uall meafure, neither shall I take notice, that, when you apprehend a ftrefs , for all your inveighing againft the one? and love to the other, you can for a shift alleviate both Prelacieand Presbytrie toEmptie names , & shreud your felf in the Sanctuary of eafe the convenience of your new dhifed latitude. Butlmuft remember you, that as the thing we contend for is an Ordinance of Jefus Chrift , both in- stitute for, and greatly commended by the effectual propagation of the Gofpel , and confpicuous advance- ment of holmeiTe > fo the ignorance and licentioufnefs % which (as the shadow doth the body J do attend the prevailing of your Order, are not more the impu- tation of men , then the bitter and corrupt fruits, that undeniably demonftrate the corruptnes of that plant of prelacie,not planted by God,whereby they are pro- duced, yefbal k>iow them by their fruits is aTeft forCour- Ces , as well as Perfones , and that a good tree bringeth forth good fruit , but a corrupt treebringeth forth evil fruit, is no leffe applicable to , and clearl y verified in , the one then in the other. The pure ordinances of a Gof- pel Miniftrie , and Church-Government, according to our Lords appointment; as they have his warrant and promife ,- fo they may expect his bleiTmg ,* but Lordly Prelacie the unwarrantable invention of man , accomodate to a politique orworfe defigne, and car- ried on by palpable avarice , pride and falfliood , for the reducing of the juft liberty of preaching , and due i"efpe& to Gonfcience , untoafubferviencie to mens lulls, and fecular interefts, cannot be more atten- ded, with the evil effects of ignorance, profanities and irfeligioii j then it hath a peculiar influence * Anfwercd. 79 direclly productive thereof : and therefbreSir , as you fay that you are fofzrEfifcopal as to love the order (I luppoie becaufe it is Crdtrea)andfulmittoit, be- cauleyoK fietb.it refi is good ; foi intreatyou to be Co far Rationales toconfider that Presbytery and Prelat ie are not mt ere dijiinguishi,,gnar/.es ^ but fuch realities as have even in our expenenec pioduced mod Im- portant and different effecls > and then J queftion not. but the fad and woful confe quences of that aboun- ding Sin, and Profanenefie , which from your pro- phets are gone forth into all the land , will render yon fo tar Qlirijiian as to know by fuch fruits , thecor- ruptnesof your Epifcofach ■■> that hath brought them forth, and without adjuring you to any Sett , tui nc you not only to be a rr.ourner for the fins of your parti* bur afenousiupplicant, that the accuriedcaufe there* 01 may be removed, But you fay that Non~conformifts areguihie of the pre* fent loofneffe who. I . By makjng Religion a cloaks to fo many Siatt-dtfignes , make tco mamfuspcB Religion to be but a define o it J 'elf. 2. by driringpeople to an outward, compliance in formes, cauft tbern to naufeat at all Religion* but. £. andmofly, bv tktrr waxing cold in love, t9 which cur Saviour plai)d\\}.its the abounding oj iniquitie. Sir, as toyourtwotirftreafons, If 1 should as lightly deny them > as you do affirme them > you should be fully anfwered $ but this your accuftomed confidence of objecting to Non-ccnformifts thefe things, where- of their A dverfaies are moftly, if not only, guilty, obliges me to a further reflection. That Religion may be made a cloak to State- defigncs, na< , torhegrea- teft villanies , is certainly one of the molt grievcus of thefe offences , becauieofwhicha wo is pronounced to the world j but that this hath not been lb much the accidental! practice of any Perfon of our way j as the very go r The third Dialogue very fubftance of your whole courfe, is obvious to the rneaneft Consideration. How aufterly our firft Refor- mers were denied to all Worldly advantages , and how feithfuil to the Crown , and then infant King , I leave itto the candid and impartiall conilderation of all fober Ivicn , not preferring the vain pretenfes , made for perverted, yea profaned Authority in Odium of Truth , to the moft convincing evidences , of all impotencie and wickednefie , that can beinftanced from any Hil- tory: The next pafTagethatoccurresofthefewhoon our part in a moft ftedraft fimplicity , did aflert , and eftablish Prefbytiie.unt.ill the year 1596. & of others, who on your part , by Fraud, Perjury and Violence , did , in compliance with King James , his defign of Complementing the English Clergie , on the one hand, and attaining to a greater freedom , of indul- ging and gratifying the Popish partie , on the other -(both fuppofed neceffaire for alluring , the then much courted Succeilion ) endeavour , the overthrow of Presbytrie , as being too ftraight for fuch crooked courfes , is an inftance againft your firfl reafon, which J am bound in Charity to think , you did not call to minde : fure I am , that which you object , of our aiming at State-dejignes, change but State, into Court, and you will tinde it was fo far from being our guilt , that it was King James his regret , on our behalf, that honeft Men would not be thereby tempted- But it is like , the times you hint at, are thefe of our late Trou- bles : Wherein , though I acknowledge , that the fdgned concurfe , and corrupt defignes of fome , did in their occafion difcover themfelves ; Yet, it cannot be denied, that fuch was, and is, the truth of the work of God, and ftedfaftnelTe of its faith full Adhe- rers , that even unto this day , through all the various temptations of Malignances , on the one hand , and Seto- Anfwered. 3r Sectarianifinc on the other , both it, and they", do retain their integrity. Really Sir, when I confider,that neither the tempting teirour of the prevailing Malig- nant intereft in the Y ears 164 5. and 48. nor the fuc- ceeding victory, ufurpjeion and very plaufible and infinuating offers of the Sectarians , with all thefe ftrange revolutions that have fince happened , have moved the Lords faithfull remnant in the Land , from that well tempered , and juftly ballanced fear of God, and honour to the King , which from the beginning they profefled , and do hold forth in the Covenant, and all their Publick actings, Your accufationofthe work of God , as a State dejjgn , appears to me a very palpable inconfiftencie , and ridiculous calumny; to defign State changes or advantages , and yet , to omitand flight all the probable, yea and poilible op- portunities , of comparing them , are things , which Maliceit felf cannot affir me to be compatible. As for thefe, who not being upright , nor (table in the Lords Covenant , have , according to the impulfe of their own worldly defignes , turned and figured themfelves , unto every fort of compliance, they are now fo unexpectedly , and wholly almdft , become of your way , that there needs no other evidence, of the eafie accommodation , that all felf-feekers , and time-fervers do finde in it • but wherefore do I feek to retort ? Can there be any thing more certain , then that as corrupt Court defignes , haveonlv impofed this heavy Yoke of Prelacie, upon the Lords Church, and People amon^ft us * fo fuch have been , and are the wicked and Ungodly practices of its Lords , and their dependents , & the vaft diflonancie of their lives, even from their own Canons and profeillon ; that J do not fo much wonder at your impudence , in objecting againft our courfe The tempting of many tofuftcEl I{c- F ligion S2 The firft Dialogue. lighntobebutadefignofitfelf, as that the monftroufr ueflc or your Hierarchy hath not fcandalized the whole wor: i to account all R^Ugion but a cheat. 2. Ycu fay ~by dri: ir.g of people to an outward compliance in forms , tve have caufed them to Naufeat at all Religion • Who would liiink that this were the accufation of Non- conrormifts, who from the very beginning ot Re- formation j have been continually vexed , by your im- pofitions; md not rather conceive, the objection to be made by them , agamlt your violent prefting of Crofle, Surplice, Service-bock, Book of Canons, and other trash, wherewith the Lords people have been uncef- Jantly urged , as the main , yea only things of Reli- gion £ But I cannot Hand upon every one of you; ca- Iumn;es,ti,e Lord deliver you from this perverfe (pint: Only it by cr-e driving objected, ycudounde.ftand our caufing the people ot the Land to ftand ftedtait , and adhere to the Lords Covenant, whereby they were for- merly obliged , it is already fully anfwered. But , that which you fay is of greateft weight , is > that we are guilty of the waxing cold in Love , to which cur Saviour knits the abounding of Iniquity : And this challenge you qualify , by our judging you in Matters which are doubtful difputations , fp reading tattles , of you-, as you call them, carrying fowrly toward you, and cafling odious afperfions upon you, as ^Apojiates and the lil^e , with petulant railings , and this you addc , n a greater persecution , then any little fufftring of curs in the World. Sir, though I cannot footh you 3s you do your felf, by the mouth of your N. C. (whofe tongue yoa teach to fpeak lyes)in your fmooth. words of deceit , by telling you , that too much of what you fpeak is true • Yet I heartily wish , there were more Charity on alliides; but where you ac- cufe us , of waxing cold in Love , and thence would infers Anfwcred. S3 inferre our acceflion, to the pieient abounding ini- quity j I would firfi have youtoi ^d the text aright* which mneth thus , Andbkauft h huhx shall abound , the love of manv shall waxcold , v. hich is a plain in- verfion of your caufality. z4 Admitting your ground to be good , I ferioufiy wish , without vanity , that the waxing cold in love , both towaid God and your Neighbour , were not more your fin , then ours ; then had we not been fcorched into a blackneife , and con- fumed almoft into ashes, by thefe fiery trials, kind- led? blown and kept into a flame , by the Grandees of your way ( pourtrey them as you plcafe ) whofe heat fpeaks them to be fet on fire , againft the Work , People, and Interefts of God. 3. To call the caufes of our Differences matters which are doubtfufl DifpH- tations , when both by Scripture, Rearon , and So- lemne Engagements , and many fad experiences , they are fo fully determined , is indeed , to put falfeglofes- upon things $ and to pretend to be a good Chrifrian , and to acclaimc the charity and kjnanejfe of others , in anavouedperfiftence, in open Perjury, Oppofition totheCaufeofGod, and perfecution of his People? is it not to wipe your mouth , and fay you have done no wickedneffe ? But you fay it is from the fpirit of the Devil to faslen the brand of Apoflajie upon the leaving of apar--> tie, and that to grow wifer is not to pLv: the changling, nor is 4 confciencious obedience to Jianding Laws time- fcyving. Sir , as I love neither to irritate, nor preju- dicate by hard words; fo I approve not either your or your N. C. tattles; but if to leave God, and not a Partie , be ^Apoftafie ? if to for fake the way , and Truth of God , be to play the ch angling ? and if to obey , and conforme to mifchief , framed by a Law , be ti.ne-ferving * I am fadly appreheniive > that3whac 84 The third Dialogue you account to be , but the Malice of the fpirit of the ' Devil , shall one day be found , the Verdicl of the Spi- rit of God ■, Whether it be thus or not, in our con- troverted differences , let the things themfelves , and theifTueof our difcourfe declare? What you tell us of the primitive application , of the word Apoftafie9 is no reftriftion of its proper acceptation : And for your other petty conceits , in this place , with your mock-complaint , of the perfection of* juft9 but difdained cenfure > they are not of that moment , to Hop my procedour , to that part of your conference > which concerns Epifcopacie. This head you fay fills afwider in two , the one age- nerd confederation of that Government , the other, fuppo- fing it were amiffe , how far it ought to be feparated from : And for the Government , in place of all thefe weighty and unanfwerablc objections? viz. the want of our Lords Warrant. 2. Repugnancie to his , and his Apoftles Precepts and practice of reftlefs labour, fimplicity, equality, humility and contempt of the world, &c. 3 . Difconformity to the firft , and purer times of the Primitive Church. 4. The pride, ava- rice , ufurpation , and cruelty , to which , it naturally tends j and hath been depraved : And laftJy , thefe evil and bitter fruits , of profanity , ignorance, and fu- perftition, that it hath ever in its prevalencie produc- ed 5 which have been charged upon, and made out againftit , by many of the Lords faithfull Witnefles ; you make your N. C. faintly 2nd poorly to alcdge^I cannot thinkjthat Church-men should hecalUd-Lords, and be great Perfons -, that this is a deiingenuous prevari- cation , is obvioufly manifeft. Yet fuch is the weak- nelTe of your caufe , that the meaneft argument, you could put in your N C. mouth , is ftronger then your anfwere , wherein you tell us , That this belongs not to tU Anfwered. %$ the thing it fdf\ but is an addition of the ChrijV'in Ma- giftrat. But 1 muft remember you firji ■> that Church- men and Minilters , are not capable or every addition': Civil offices, andadminiftrations , are very lawfully befto ved by the Magiftrat , upon fit Recipients : but as for Mmifters , they are not only an intolerable dif- traftion , many degrees above that charitable imploy- ment which the Apoftles could not bear, butfoin. confiftent with the nature , manner, and end of their Miniftrie , that , even our Lord> while m this capaci- tie, doth bruskly decline, to be fo muchasanami- cabletrifter : And therefore to juftify Bishops titles? from this ground, that they art extrinfick^additions i or from their civil place , and voice in Parliament , is no wayes concludent. 2. Though this were not ; yet, lam confident, that whoever confiders, the received ufe , and import of this title of Lord amongft us , will find it an addition , as full of faftuous vanity, for Minilters » as the title of i^r^/j (even admitting that its excefs did lye another way ) therefore ex- cepted againft, and prohibited by our Lord, was un- lawfult for the Apoltles : but 3. This title is not an addition flowing from the Chriftian Magiftrat , as yoii pretend j but the very product , of that pride , and ufurpation , that at firft exalted Prelacie , which , as at firft , it was afTumed by the connivence of, if not , rather forced from the Civil Magiftrat \ 10 now, by the Bishops, it is only derived from him, inconfe- quence of that Supremacie , which both falfly againft our Lord Jefus Chrift , and traiteroufly to the Pope , in this refpect their proper head, they have , for their own convenience , transferred upon him. But yon add , th k ve confider not that-) Sir , and Lord, Gentle nan and Nobleman , differ but in degree: fincc therefore ■> a Miniftor by Office , hes the temporall F 3 honour &86 The third Dialogue _pnour of a Gentleman , why may not the temporall honour of a Lord) be as well put upon a Bishop ? Sir , if you were as innocent of the vanity , as you feem ro be ig- norant of the Nature of thefe titles , Our controver - fie were at an end : aPaithfull Minifter, truely mind- ing his work, values not himfelf upon points of He- rauldrie j to acquit himfelf as becometh an Embafia- dour, for the Glory or Chrift, is all his ambition , and truly honourable, beyond the acceffion of ail tem- poral! dignity , If it were not io , I could further in- form you , that a Gentleman and Nobleman, do not only gradually differ , but are prorfus difparata wholly different. The Ring, wee fay , can make the one , buc cannot make the other. I grant the privileges ofa Gentleman , are commonly fuppoied to belong to JVfinifters , and decent civility may refpecf them , as ofthatranck, but really, there appears to me fuch a difparity , betwixt thefe things , and a Bishops re- ceiving, let be the uiurping, 01 the temporall , and more eminent honour of Lord fpecially as above his Brethren, that if a Minifter as fuch? should but te- nacioufly lay xlaime to the title ofa Gentleman , I would think it not only very n isbecoming his Pro- feftioti , but a plain forfeiture of the pretended pri- vilege. But, yourN.C. urges to better purpofe, that Bi- shops should not Lord it over Gods heritage : And you for Anfwere, tell us, That by Lording, is meant a tyrannical! domination , and not a tilth. Next, That Gods Heritage , apply ed by us to the Clergie , is not in the Texty bearing only not Lording over their Lots or Divi- Jions , to which you adde That Whatever argument we fife to put down Bishops jrom being as Noble-men , wiU alfo prove Minijurs not born fuch , not to be Gentlemen. Sir ) to put this foolish trifling about titles , firftby hand, Anfwered. S7 hand , Bishops neither arc Noblemen, nor ought to be dteuned qtififi Noblemen: becaufc I. The ching is altogether incompetent , and the title without the. thing is a vanity. 2. Either title or thing , as it ex- alts them above their Brethren? is fin' til , and the very reverie of our Lords Command : IJ'i:ofoci-er a HI be chief among yvu let him be \our Servant not your Lord* He thai is .//V , let him be as he that Serveth not at a Nobleman : How then can ye acclaime either > hingor title*? $. The title ot Lordm its Ecclefialftck usur- pation, hath been, and is lo groisly abufed by Church- men , above all that our Lord reprehends , in the pride of the Pharifces ? not only co the pretending to the uppermost roomes at leafts , and the chiefe ieacs in the Synagogues ; bur the chief places in Stares, and the fir ft banches in Pariaoients , not only to Greet- ings in the Mercats, and to be called of nran^W/', Rrtbbi ■> but to ride next to the Honours, anu recalled Grace , Grace , that, ierioufly I marveil how you or any Chriftian , regarding our Lords exprefs words, can juftifyit.*3 That thefereafonsdonoc mi- litate againft the civil , and ordinary refptct common- ly payed to all Minifters , and men of any fashion> without either a vain usurpation in the receivers , or any other thing , then that courteous mutuall prefe- rence, commended by the Apoftle in the givers, & which without failing into the ravings of theQuak- ers , their aufterity , you cannot from our Lords words redargue , I think it needletfe to relume. Now you fay that by Lording, prohibite to Church-men, a Tyrannical domination is only rr.t.int , why do you'thus offer toimpofe , contraire both to the import of the word , and tenour of the Scripture? the word ufed by Peter is xcc74.x.v&i»m , and the very fame ufed by our Lord Math. io. Whence Peter himfeif learned the F 4 Pre- ss The third Dialogue Prohibition, tnat u figmfies not to Tyrannize , but iSmply authoritative Dominari, to rule with Authoritie» all Lexica atteft ; Neither doth the proportion jp&' joynedto xve/tivw import more of force , then what doth more expreffivdy denote , and diftingnish the dominion of Empire and Authority, from that of propriety: As for the tenour of Scripture? that it repugnes to your expofition is manifeft i. Becaufc that where Math, in thistpaflage ui'eththe compound xci&tcvetfv&v > Lnk§ doth indifferently ufe the fimple xv&i'vw-, as of the fame import to the prefent pur- pofe , by which youi glofs , of a tyrannical! domina- tion is deprived of all shadow of ground. Z. Becaufe our Lord by both words , doth only prohibite fuch a domination, and authority amongft his Difciples , as wasexercifed amongft the Gentiles by their Princes , and which they who were called their Benefactors did ufe over them , but certain it is , that neither was the dominion of the Princes of the Gentiles , allow- edly or commonly tyrannick $ nor is it our Lords purpofe in this place , to brand them with fuch a cha- racter. 3. The pofitive Command plainly fet down, and enforced by our Lords own example, is too evi- dent , to leave any man hefitant , as to the Prohibition: But it Jhall not fa fo among you •> but whofoever iviU be great among you , traely great in virtue and reward , let him be your Minifler : Let him exercife the Miniftery committed to him, by way of humble and painfull fervice, denyedtoall worldly advantages, and nei- ther affect > nor afiiime the Grandour , and Authority 6f CivilGovernours.E-;e« as the Son of Man came not to. he minifiereduntoybut to Mini ftere, and to give his lifi,&c. and made himfelfofno reputation (contemning his Gen- rility, and not valuing his Nobilitie ) but took^ upon km the form of a Servant : Sir? do we indeed beleeve that Anfwered. 89 that this is commanded, and pro^ofed for a pat tern to Gofpel Miniflcrs ? An^ yet it is not only moft cer- tainly fo , but alio undeniable, that if there were in Minifters and Church-men , that fame Spirit of Obe- dience to God , and love to Souls , which was in him, who accounted it his meat and drink to do the will of him that fent him , and to rinish his work, and if they had the fame eye, and regard, to the joy fet before them , which he had , who is the Author and tinisher of our Faith, it could not be other waves. For my part , I think a ferious reflection on thefe things, is not only enough to confound for ever , theeafe , vanity, and pomp of afpiring Prelats , but to make the beft of Minifters ashamed , to appear fo much above their Matter , even in their indulged honefties , and con- veniencies. But 4. Becaufe the place that you touch is taken from Peter , fee how it alio agrees with that of Math. Feed the flocl^ of God tfc. Not as being Lords or Lording , over Gods heritage , but as being EnfampUs : where it is evident , that the adverfative, doth not only reject your Glois , o£ 2l tyrannic!^ do- mination ; But by commanding rather to lead and inftruft by example , then to rule by Authority , hold furth the lame humble and fimple Minifterie,to be en- joined here, which by our Lord was before recom- mended. The next thing you anfwere , is , that Gods heritage applied by us to the Clergie , is not in the Text, Pray you Sir , how came this in your head , that we apply the title of Gods heritage to the Clergie , or own them under this name ? Know you not , that the ufurping of this prerogative, both byyour, and the Popish Church-men, hath been alwayes efteemed by us, an high arrogance i As for your pretending to correct our Tranflation , Pray Sir, be fober, and remember therefoecl which you bear to the Authors. . F 5 Z. I 90 The rhird Dialogue X. I grant theiiretk Verkatlm tendered feemeth to found , neither dsexerciji, gLordly authority ov rthe Lots by which as your interpretation of a tyrannical domi- nation is difproved , fo , even your pretended exact - nefle ( Your being wanting ) is exceeded, 3. Since tli£ Lords People are certainly here meant , whether you underftand them to be termed %M°yi lots, in or- der to their refpective Pallors , whole lortitions , and divisions they are , or as being Gods heritage , accor- ding to the ufuall fignilication of" the finguiar «>jjg®- hentage , and the clear Synonymous import oi the word mlfimt in the folio wing part of the verfe, but being Enfamples to the flocl^y it matters nothing, as to our prefent bulinefs , but plainly shews your imper- tinent curiofity. However, I wish you to confider , that as we condemn the worldly ,and pompous ufur- pac:ons of Prehts, above their own degree , and over then Brechren , fo , we moft or ail condemn their fpi- ritual Tyranny, in Lording over the Confciences of Gods People , whom thev cafe not now >as alwayes, to vex with their Pharifaickim poling, and exacting of impiicite obedience to vain Trad;tio :s aid humane inventions, more then obedience to the Command- ments of God , as will afterward appear. Your N. C. proceeds to fay that' his chief quarrell againft Bishops , is, that they area fun&ion of mans de^jfing, andnowhereinfiitutedby God. To this you think lit to anfwere, by way of retortion, telling us of our great , but vainpretenfes , to a jus dhinum in fe- verall things : As firfty in the matter of Lay Elders , thus Sir you deall wittily, when you can do no better, feing you cannot continue your own opinion , you endeavour at left to fubyert your adverfane , but be- fore I enter with you upon particulars, I muft tell y on firfiy that Presbyterians in pleading forajw* di- vimwy Anfwered. 91 ;; , do not pretend to a poiittive , andexprcfie prefcription from Scripture, oJ alii he 1 mailer points and circun ftaiues, either of deceiicie 01 order, re-- cjuificeto their Government and Discipline, in as much3 as, the regulation of thefe, being abundantly provided for , by the general rules revealed , and the things themfelves , 2nd their ule, iuch as ingenuous perfons cannot probably miftake 5 the want oi exprefs warrants , in all or any inch particulars , cannot be juflly cavilled at as a defect : 2. That it had better become the iobnety , that ycu require of your N. C. for you to have anfwered , what many worthy Men have written? for the jus dhimtm of Pr^sbyterie , then to have paOed all with the empty cenfure of your own airy character oi big ta/J , and minding it as little 3 .is d,r: cuxld to the effect j you may amufe your poor N. C with a fear of your conceited quibl- ings- but leaving thefe things with as confident an eftimation , as your undei valuing is vain , and grcund- le.re , to the impartial perufal of judicious Readers » J do only here premife > that , whoever abftra&ly andferiouslyconfiders , the clear light, and obvious project oftheCofpelj will of necelllty rinde. i. That our Lord Jelus by vertue of that Kingdom, and All Power gven to him , in Heaven and in Earth, did,for the carrying on, and prospering of his pleafure, the Sah-ation of tinners, appoint, in thePerfons ofhis Apoftles , a perpetual Miniftrie in his Church , the fumme of whole charge) is both feverally & jointly; to take heed, tooveriee, and feed the Church of God, and the chief part and dutie of which office , is, to Preach and Teach , and confequently to reprove , rebuke, exhort , remit and retain , bind and loofe Sec. in which things , the heads of Doctrine , and Disci- pline, with their immediate power , and warrant from Jefus 9^ The third Dialogue JefusChrift, and their connexion, and dependence betuixt themfelves , do certainly conhftj and are clear. ly held out. 2: As the Apoftles were all the Mini- ftcrs (waving the matter of the Seventies whofe milli- on andirnployment was only iocall , and preparatorie, unto every Citie , and place , whether he himfelf would come, and to fay the Kingdom of God is come nigh unto you > and dcfaBo , ended at their returne , Lu\ 10. 1.9. the order , office , and full pattern of the Gofpel Miniftrie eftablished , g«$ ^ romA*'«s rS eu'£t®* even unto the end of the world> fo they are. by our Lord vef- ted with fuchequall power? fo exprefly prohibited the afpiringto, or ufurping thei'e degrees , lawfull and allowed in fecular dignities , and fo enixely comman- ded the lo wlieft humility a.id fubmiiEon conceivable > not only in their perfonali conversation? but in their Miniftrie? that to introduce an imparity > either of Power, Dignity, orftatedPreheminence? amonglt Gofpel Mimfters? is plainly to reject* and deny our Lords inftitution ? and ordinance. 3. That although the Apoftles were lingular above their fucceflbrs ? in many refpe&s , fuch as an infallible aififtance in the dis- charge of their -Miniftrie , eminencie of Gifts ? an unconfined exercife > an univerfall overfight , and the privilege, not only of our Lords peculiar and chof- en WitnefTes , but or being theipirituaH Fathers , and- Authors of couverfion , toalmoft the whole Chrif- tian Church; yet were thefe prerogatives only tem- porary, and nece;7arily requisite, and fuited to , or depending upon the particular exigence of the Gofpels firft propagation j and fo far from changing? or in- novating that equality , parity and lowline.Te of Mi- nifters? moftmanifeft from our Lords command and appointment > thatonthecontraire ? thefe other ad- ' Anfwered. 9$ vantages, hindered not the Apoftles, to refpeft and acknowledge the Paftors of particular Churches, as partakers with them of the fame Minifteriall power , their fellow-labourers, Brethren (not in the bare name, as your Prelats fcorne their Curates, and the Pope in his pretended ftius fenorum Dei , the whole Roman Church) Compasbyters , and in thePaftoral charge, altogether their equals. 4. As the power of Government, confiftmg in the Authoritative decid- ing of Controvert , according to the word of God, the due application of Ecclefiaftick Difcipline, and Cenfures , and the right regulation of all other things, pertaining to the Minifteriall function, is clearly im- ported in the Command of Feeding , and Over-feeing, belldeitsnaturall infeparability from the conduct of every rational , letbeChriftian , inftitution and So- ciety, and confequently only alUftent, and fecondarie to the other offices of the Minifterie; fo > the Lords command of that snoft lowly fubmilTion , and fim- plicity, incapable of the very notion of imparity , which he oppofeth even to that lawfull Authority, and dignity allowed in civils , doth in fuch a peculiar manner , regard the exercife of this Governing Power, that w hether it be more abfurd , to introduce a ftated degiee of Superiority and Dignity among Minifters > inthepointof Government, or to feparate and exalt Government, from and above the office of Preaching, to which it is fubfervient , and to appropriate it to cer- tain Miniftri-pnlati , above others, can hardly be determined , J need not here caution concerning ru- ling Elders , feeing the more full defcription of Eccle- Ilkftick Government , is here given, in order to Mi- nifters, in which thefe Elders being only partiall sha- rers, it is not moie agreeable to their warrant, then fuitablc to this pofition. 5, As the grounds of the e= quality ; 94 The thirds Dialogue quality and parity of Mkiifters by us aflerted , are by thefe truths plainly held out ; fo that iliperiority o' power, though ftill Mmifterial, competent to the meetings of the Brethren , as well over the feverall conftituenc members , as over the Church according to their warrant hereafter declared , is thereto very confiitent, and thereby moftly established: whether thefe things, all evident in the Do&nne, and prac- tice of Chnft and his Apoftles , do not fairely exhi- bite, the principles and platform of a Presbyterian Miniftene and ksMinifterial parity, Let men judge. Really Sir , when I confider Preaching , to be the main office, even our Lords own coin million, &great erand into the world , Difcipline to be dependent upon it, aud wholly referable to its end, and a Am- ple Minifterial Government , only allowed for the regulation and advancement of both , and when I do remember, thar neither the glorious excellence of the Lord Jefus , hindered him to be amongft his Difci- ples , as be whoferved • nor did the many advantages of the Apoftles , and others extraordinarily girted1, and accordingly imployed and fent out, as their aiiiifents , requifite in the Churches infancie , make them aflume to themfelves,or endeavour to fettle in the Church, any fuperior Order, above the degree of preaching Elders, andOverfeers , whom they all— wayes refpected as their equals, in the work of the Gofpel : And thirdly when I call to minde , that wherever a Church came to be gathered , the A- poftles did either by themfelves , as at Lyftra , Ico- nium and Antioch, or by their fellow labourers (as- Timctby at Ephefm , and Tttm in Crete ; there left and appointed by Pant for the work , and charged to leave the place when called) therein ordain Elders , without any imparity , or higher order , and that Paul after Anfwered. 95 after > having teftified that he had keep back nothing profitable, nor sJ unedto declare all the Counfel of God; but shewed them all things, did commit to. the Elders oi Epbefus , the fall charge and ovei fight of the Church 01 Cod, without appointing any An- gel Pre! at over them: And Lilly when I reflect how that in the beginnings oftliL-Gofpel atJerufaUm, all things ilmolt were acted by Common counfel : that where, and when , the Chriftian name did firft take place, there and at the fame time? we finde a Pref- bytene of Prophets and teachers aiTem bled , and ac- ting jointly, and by the Command of the Holy Ghoft, fending out even the greateft of the Apoftles , asfub- ject to them * that Paul impofeth hands with the Pref- byterie, Sctermeth it their deed, & Peter exhorts El- ders^, his fellows & their Compresbyter; when I fay 1 ponder theie things , they do make meaflurediycon- cludctheMiniftrie&Governineniof the Church in the way of Presby terie , to be :s much Juris Dhbti , as it is oppofite to , and removed from your Hierarchic . Having thus discovered the foundation, and traced the undeniable lineaments of Presbyterie in the Word of God, I may not infiit upon the inconfenant defor- mities of Prelacie , only thi> 1 muit fay , that though Prelacie were not attended , with many and great cor- ruptions, and in its exaltation ( mark it left you think me injurious to good men ) had not been al waves ene- my to Religion, and Godlinefs ; Yet a fuperiour. Order of Church- men , uiurping from the Paftors of the flock of God , the Minifterial Power of Juris- diction, and the only right of Ordination , and ac- claiming to tjiemfelves the fole management of Go- vernment , as their proper work , with dignity and authority over their Brethren, hath neither warrant, nor veftige in the Scripture of the New Teftament : but is fo palpably the invention of man , that , it is 96 The third Dialogue not a greater wonder , that the Devil should have im- proved it to all that pride , avarice , wickednefle and villany j which it hath produced > then it is a myfterie, how the world should have been thereby impofed u- pen , and have endured , all its rapine , facrilege and usurpation > under the pretext of Religion? to which it is fo repugnant. I come now to try how you impugne the jus divU nUm , which we afiert for Lay elders , and other mat- ters condefcendeduponbyyou, and therefore hither- toby me not touched : You fay Lay-Elders are founded on no Scripture , as the mofl judicious amongst us ac- knowledge ; And y ou wonder , that when we urge from the jlpoFtUs ghingrules only for Bifliops ,and Deacons , that Diocefansmujt be fljufflea out , how we do not alfo fee-y that ruling Elders , are- not there. Who thefe mofl ju- dicious amongft us in Scotland , may be , who deny Lay or rather Ruling Elders , to have any Scripture warrant , feeing your own N. C. is none of the Num- ber, I cannot apprehend; but for your wonder , I think it may be eafily fatisrled , if you will but confider , that it is not from thefimpleomiifionof Diocefans,in this Text, that we exclude them from the Church ; but fince it is minifeft from theEpiftles toTimothy and Thus that the true Apoftoiick Bishop was no other, either in name or office, thena Presbyter: Nay, that by the rules to him fet down.your Diocefans is plainly call , and rejected , like as both in Atls Chap. 20. and Titus the names of Bifcop and Presbyter are pro- mifcuoufly ufed, is it not clearly concludent, that your Diocefan hath no Scripture warrant, whereas the ruling Elder , as he is not in thefe places confound- ed, and made the fame with the preaching Elder, but may juftly enough share both in the general names of Elder , and Over-feer, and alfo in their rules without any Anfwered. 97 aryinrofiftence; fo his liquid warrant, asadiftinft officer, is el fvvheieobviouOy exrant. In the next place you add, that the Brethren in the Council at Ierufalem prove twnuck* viz. That our Elders are utdges of Do&rihe but if their concurrence, both inthen.eeting a,,d in the decree, may be fairly under- ftoodofanalMtingand approving 'uflfrage, without attributing to ail unanin-ousafienters,the fanepower and Authority of deciding , as is very cafible , ina- ny other heterogeneous A /Terribly , whether our argument conclude from the Brethren , as diftin- gui^hed from the Apoftlei , and preaching Elders > and therefore to betaken for ruling Elders , or from the Elders there mentioned, as including both the preaching and ruling Elders, your abluidity doth, not follow , and our argument is nothing convelled : But you fay, it is abfurd to thinly , that , that wot a Church judicature : Pray Sir, not fo faft , you would fay, that* that meeting was not a General Synod; for that it was a Church judicature its decree doth evince : As to the Arguments taken for ruling Elders from the exhorta- tion to rule with diligence, and the enumeration of Helps-, and Governments , amongft other Gifts bellow- ed on the Church , feeing they are not adduced as bv themfelves , fo convincingly concludent , but as acceflory to thefe other places , wherebv the diftinft office being proved, the promife and s^iFc agreeable P cannot but add a confiderable light: Your terming them Sandie foundations is as foolish, as your calling Helps . and Governments , extraordinary gifts , is groundlefle But both your N. C. and I inquire what you fay to that Scriptu e let the Elders that rule well, be counted worthv of double honour, Effect ally they who labour in the word and doBrine , That here both the Preaching G and 98 The third Dialogue and ruling Elder are included > in the word Elder , aa I hinted before , and that a diftinttion is made , of him who both Preaches , and Rules , from him that only Rules , is maniteft , from the words j and you are fo far thereby convinced , that you acknowledge the office c ontroverted to be fpoken of , but you lay the Text fuppofeth its bti/g , but doth not bear its institu- tion ^ this is tiuely exact and ftri& ; itfeems you re- member not , that although all that was ever pleaded in behalf of your Bishops, and the j "aire likilikpod ior them, which you would draw from the Angels of the Churches , proceeds only upon a fuppolition , of the thing in being ; Yet none of our fide > do redargue your arguing , rrom that place only , for want of an exprefs mftitution : Confider therefore Sir > that, if the being of our Elders office , be in this Scripture fupponed , and commended » its inftitution is alfo thereby fupponed , and commended , and this nice- ty of yours, isnoevafion; but adding that there are five or fix glojfes put on the fe words, which you prote ft (without any reafon) to be better then ours , you give us your own , thus : [ Let fuch among youy ai are fixed to rule particular charges , be doubly honoured ; but fpe~ daily thefe Evangelisls , who medle not in rule, but labour in word and do&rine.] Sir , I am forry that having plenty , you have made choife of one , fo many waves peccant , as importing , firft , that at the time of the writing of this Epiftle , there were Elders fixed to particular charges or Parishes within Ephefw, where- of the contraire is moft com monly and probably held, 2> That either there were at the fame time, betide yourfixed Elders unfixed Evangelifts , belonging pro- perlv to Ephefm ; or that the Apoftle fpeaks hereof thefe Catholick Evangelifts , who belonged not to Timothys infpe&ion > but which is worft of all? your Glofs Anfwered. 99 Clote plainly deftroyes the Text , for whereas Paul doth firft deliver a General, that all well ruling Elders be doubly honoured , and addes a fpcciall ampliation, de Natura regulce of the Nature of a Rule , in favours of theie , who alfo Preach , you expiefly fay , that thefe Preachers medled not with rule , and flatly deny them to be of the number of thefe well-ruling Elders , which arc to be honoured : Next, where the Text makes labour- ing in the word , an additament to well ruling , and therefore deferving a fpecial allowance , you preferre the fole merit of Preaching to the double deferving > of both Preaching and well-ruling : but I purfue your raveries too far , the words are plain , well-ruling El- ders , Preachers or not Preachers ,' are to be doubly honoured ; but fuch who do both Preach and rul« well, have the preheminence : Now whether or not you have shown, our Elders to be ill grounded A leave it to your fecond thoughts. But you proceed to furprize your N, C. with a how want you Deacons «J and then you tell him , That we had indeed fome what called Deacons , but they were not Scripture- deacons ; for fuch were not Lay -per f oris butEc- clefiajlic^ feparate by tmpojition of hands , for the fun- Elton y andfo were to continow > whereas we yearly altered our Elders , and Deacons. Sir > though in this point you reprefent our Leaders as Deceivers , Yet really , I should be forry > that you were afwell known to be a calumniator , as the Deacons ufed in our Churches, are clearly found in our Bibles : Their inftitution A&s6. is plain, fpecially vers 3. Wherefore Brethren , look, ye out among you fevenmenofhonesl report , full of the holy Ghofl and Wifdom , whom we may appoint over this buiinelTe viz. the dayly miniftration , and ferving of tables : From which Scripture , our practice of chof- inghoneft , approved men > for the Miniftration of C 2 Charity ioo i ire third Dialogue Charity, there meant, and the ferving of tables , is To exactly copyed out , that I cannot but admire your confidence : But you fay , that Scripture Deacons were not Lay-perfons,but feparate by impofition of hands: Jf by feparation you mean the folemn appointment and defignation of Deacons, and hold the fame fuffi- cientto make them Ecclcfiaftick , our Deacons as well as thefe in the Text, are indeed Ecclefiaftick; but ifby feparation you underftand a totail and perpetual fequeftration , from fecular medling , as you cannot be ignorant , that it was and is the wish of many wor- thies amongft us , that the Church could have been ferved with fuch Elders and Deacons ; fo , feing in- evitable neceflitie , through the want or an alimony, hath forced both our Church,& other reformed Chur* chcs , which obferve the fame practice with ours , to make ufeoffuch as they can get, it is no commenda- ble practice in you , who are fuch a pretender to mo- deftie and civility , to call up this lamented defect , as our unpardonable blemish j finceit had become you rather , who would be accounted a kindly child of the Church of Scotland , to haveovertured a way how the Church Patrimony ('whereby thefe Officers of the Church might have Lived) may be recovered from the Harpyes who devoure it now without remorfe : neither hath the after abufe of Deacons,unto a preach- ing order , ufed in the Roman Church , any Scrip- ture warrant ,! as is clear from the Text > and the rules therein exprefled : I grant we finde in Scripture P/?/- lip chofen a Deacon in the 6. chap, and Preaching chap 8. vers 5. ABs , and that it is probable , that this and the like practices, were there after made the occafion> and colour, of the formentioned abufe , but if you fuppofe that the hi ft Deacons did Preach by venue of their inftitution , you haye no juft ground for it in the word; Anfwercd. 101 word : And Philips Preaching, is Co plainly annexed to an extraordinary difpenfation , ortacite million to him and to many others , upon the difperfion after Stephens Martyrdom , infinuate in the 4. vers of the 8. chap, that I doubt not > but a fecond reading will con- vince you. Next you addtthat Scripture Deacons, werefeparate by impofition of hands -, for the funRion. I grant, that was the manner of their firft folemn designation ; but if the Chuch.by reafon of the Poftenor abufe, of which , in probability, the miftaking of this forme hath no. been the leTt caufe, or becaufe of the reafon formerly hinted viz. that becaufe of the want ofa competent uiiintai- nance, they could not get fuchas would be totally and perpetually feparated for that work , hath thought fit, notwithftanding that they do warrantably retain it in the ordination of Minifters,yet prudently to difufeit in that of Deacons , will you therefore conclude that we difown the thing itfelf? But you tell us, ThatScripture Deacons were to continoW) whereas we alter ours every year: You faid firft , that we tool^awavfrom them their Church- office , wtthout a fault \ but rcmembring that our annual change , is not a depofing from the office , only ufed by us in the cafe of demerit , but a relieving from the exercife , you did well to phrafe your charge better, intheterme of altering: In anfwere where- unto, I deny that the Scripture doth repugne to our cuftome , nor can yow show any Text in the con- traire : Nay I queftion not , but he who considers the end, for which Deacons were firft inftitute, will eafily grant , that when Philip became an Evangelift , he ceafed from the exercife of his Diaconat , and that though the then particular condition , and commu- nion of Goods , in ufe amongft the firft Believers at lerufakm > did not require this reliefe to be expresly O 1 provided io2 The third Dialogue provided for ^ yet the after ftate 01 things, both there and in other Churches , not permitting their conftanc attendance , nor providing for them any ftipend , might have induced it. Having thus weakly objected againft our Deacons you aik in the nexc place? Why want you Diaconeffes > whofe Order , Qualifications, Age andlmployment , are particularly fet down in Scripture? To whicn you caufe your N. C. very poorly anfwere, that he bath heard many of our Minifters fay } the want of them was a fault: Butieing J am not of his opinion, I make this reply to your demand , that we want Diaconeffes i. be- came the appointment of the office hath no clear Scrip- ture Temmony; its true? that paffage. i T/tfz.5. 9. is commonly underftood of your Diaconeffe5 and by thefe better feen in Antiquity of thefe feminine ^nrfiv' who did teach the women good manners and differed as much from the Diaconelle, whofe office it was , faminas pauperis* aut agrotas pecunia aut opera fublevare,to help the poor, or ficl^women with money or ferSice. as our Elders do from our Deacons; yet if a man should interprete that whole Text, to be meant of fuch, who were to be received unto a morefpecial manner of the Churches charity, feeing their by - pafl defervings only , and not their future implovment .appear there to be noted, and the command fubjoined Ver. 16. to believers to re- leive their own widows , doth inflnuat no lefs , I could not accufehim of any ftraining: and as for that other Scripture , }\pm. 16. ver. 1. where we finde Phebe termed A«**ov@- tj?« c**Ai>ot<»« a Servant of the Chnrch , it may be lo properly, and eafily under- ftood of Her occafional fervices , without making her an officer , that it fignifies nothing in the con- traire. But 2. admitting that the primitive Church among Anfwercd. ioj among the Grecians , whofe women did live under a more fevere rule , and were not Co acceflible , as among the Jews , as Interpreters doth note , had therefore both *pAu-nht and Diacohijjas, afwel as Presbvteros and Duconos , whereas the Jews did only ufe the latter , it may poffibly inferre that women in cafe of an urgent necellity , are not incapable of thefe offices ; but doth no wayes conclude either diftinct offices mftitute in the Primitive Church, and unknown among us> or that we who enjoy and prac- tife a more free converfe > like unto that of the Jews, ought to imitate the practice of the Grecian aufterity , and weaknes : and therefore fince our Deacons are fufficient to perform the duties apper- taining to the office , and are not by our cuftomes excluded from a due and decent Adminiftrarion to both fexes , your objection of our want of Diaconif- fes , is but an emptie inadvertent cavil : I could further tell you , that a form or conftitution , ob- ferring all things that are of divine Precept, though ufing other things of no necefTary nature , only ac- cording to their exigence , may neverthelefle be per- fect and of divine right, but the former anfweresdo fully cleare the matter. The third detect you challenge is , why wanted you Evangelifts ? and becaufe your N. C. anfweres , that , th.it was am extraordinary thing , you think you picque him wittily , when you fay , any thing in Scripture that makes f r you > call it ordinary ; and what doth not pleafe, is extraordinary : And yet in the very preceeding page , in anfwere to the argument for ruling Elders , from Helps and Governments, you tell us more bluntly , that by thefe are meant fome ex- traordinary Gi~ts ; but not to detain you in this mat- ter 3 that Evangelij\s are only proper , and profitable in 304 The third Dialogue 01 che penurie oi ietled Pallors , nuc on'y their firft ufe, but both the order and edification, that dearly appears , in a diftinct affixing or' Mimfters to their refpective flocks , doth abundantly evidence : As to what you fay of theptaiiar Lm'mndc ? of fome Paftors , and the impofliMity offuch a Mini erie or a whole Church , at were to be Si.fi/ d , As it doth not a little impinge upon the diipenfations of the moft High 3 to , it is more vain , then to counterbalance the inconveniencies , which would follow on your con:!ufion; but if you will reflect how in the begin- nings of our Reformation , both Superintendants and others were fent out by our Cnurch , upon the like imployment j having Pi ovinces , a.id not Parishes committed to their overfight , you tnuft of necellity acknowledge, our due efteem? and feafonable ufe- making ot this excellent Gift m that exigent of ne- ceflity ; and if you account thefe to have been Evan- gelifts ( though you shall have many who shall diiTent from you in this , upon many accounts > ye. ) you will be conftrained to acknowledge; that we do notconftrue it to beio extraordinary, as to reftn& it wholly to the primitive times. You object in the nexc place , where do you read in Scripture , yourclafjfical Subordination of Sepons to Pref. lyteries , &c ? Before I make ufe of your N. C. An- fwere , let me flrft imp'ove your own acknowledge^ ment : You fay , this is indeed rational > and orderly > and thence I inferre , in Oppolition to your alTertion , thattherefore it is fouided on a divine right : 1 am not fo captious , as tobuili this confequence , upon chat Natural Divine right , which is the undoubted impr Js j and light of Reafon , Nay , but taking Di- vine right , for a divine right pofitive , as they fpeak > my conclufiou proceeds thus ; The Church of Chrift, , . . by Anfwered. 105 byexprefs divine appointment, is conftitute in one Society being maae one Body , gathered into one$ and from the beginning , the more pure, the moie joint> and unite in all counfelsand practices : therefore, what ever is the natural , and rational right and privilege of a Society, muft alro appertain to it , by vertue of the lame right , whereon its conftitution fubfifts; the rcaion is , becaufe, in every conceilion , the things natui j1 indprop. : to tnac which is conceded, are cer- tainly undcrftood , to be imported : Nowthatunion in Counfel , and Power in the whole , over the parts , and the iiibordmation of the parts unro the whole, in mattcis pertaining and relating to the body , and con- cerning its end, are the inseparable proprieties , and privilege of a Society, is evident above exception: which argument is the more confirmed* that in the aBs of the ^Apoflles , we rinde the Church aflembling, and by Common Counfel managing its affaires 5 and determining differences , not by any fpeciall anJex- prefTe warrant or command , but meerly in the exer- cife of this intrinfick power,competent to the Church as gathered, and erected in one Society: This right then and power of meetings being undeniable to the whole by the fame rearfbfi & precedent they are con- firmed to the parts, the Subordination whereof to the whole , cannot be drawn in doubt: Thus you fee, how your own grant, affii meth what you d.ny: but yourN. Canfweres furtherT^ they at Antioch/ who in the day es ox the Apoftles, had many of them charge pro indhifo jointly* over the fame Church ? butnowadayes, have their diftinct charges over Parochial Churches > are fub,eEl to the Prophets , gathered in one affembly , may not the Subordina- tion queftioned, be fufficiently thence concluded, efpe- daily feingi can hardly fuppofe you io Anti-epifco- pal, as to be Independant , and ftilUo doubt, after the many irrefragable demonstrations given by the Presbyterians , whether this Church of Corinth was a Presbyienal , and not a meer Congregational or paro- chial Church. As for what elfe may be in your return I confelTe 1 reach it not, feeing that at the time of the Apoftles writing, we tinde no divided Parishes , and to fancie that the iubjecTuon fpoken of, wa.ofthe Prophets, in one Parochial Church, fuch as at that time there was properly none , and not rather of the many Prophets , having the chargepro indr/tfo jointly, over the whole company of the Heleevers, in that Citie , in which many parishes were virtually includ- ed , is groundlefs and abfurd. To the firft inftance you fay, It is ridiculous to urge it» feing thty of Antioch fent not up to J eru' alem , either as to a Church fuperior , or and that the rame letter is termed a Decree3do clearly prove a fuperior Authority in the writers. 2. Becaufethe example which ye adduce from the jews their high Prieft Anfwered. 107 Prieft for confirming your Glofs , doth plainly redar- gue you, in as much as the Jews comulted nocthe high Prieft , his Urim and Thummim without regard to his Authority;but confulted him as the high Prieft, and the Perfon to whom God had therefore commit- ted them, Deut.i 7. v. io. 11.& 12. putting them in thebreaft-plate termed of judgement* and not of Rjf- fonfes: But you may fay , iuppofing the matter was thus carried, what makes it for yourAfTemDlies/' I Anfwere, yes very much: foritsheweth I. That> if the Apoftles , who all of them feverally were im- mediatly infpired , andfo might have determined this controverfie , did notwithftanding join with other ordinary Elders or Church-officers , and by common counfel give out their Decrees , that common Coun- cils & their authority in the Church ,ai e jurts Dhtni. X, That as the Church of Antioch> in which the ApoftlePW, Barnabas , and feveral other Prophets were, and the other Churches in Afia , received and fubmitted to the decrees, fo, it evidently intimats a fubordination of thefe , making as it were one Pro- vincialChurch,to that great Affembly of the Apoftles & Elders convetned ac Jeruj'aUm. You fubjoinm this place, That if that meeting at Jerusalem tpas a Councel , then all Ccuncels may fpeal^in their (lile , itfeems good to the Holy Ghoft, <2c. 1 t's an- fwered 1. The connexion of your proportion, con- tained an obvious nonfequitur, in as much, as it is not from their being a Councel , but from the cer- tainty of thefe Scripture evidences whereupon their determination proceeds, that their prefacing ot the minde and fentenc. of the holy Ghoft doth flow. 2, That , that meeting was a Councel of the Apoftles , and Elders at Jerufdem , conveened in one to Con- fulte, Reafon and exercife Authority, which feverally was 1 0$ The third Dialogue was not fo fatisfy^ng tor the very Apoftles to do, not- withftanding of their immediate aififtance , is plain from the Text, & efpecially Pauls deference to them. 3. If you imagine that Ecclefiaftick Councels cannot be of Divine right unlefle they have the Spirits abfo- lute and infallible afliftance , you erre as grosfly, as he who for want of this infallibility , should deny to the Church a [landing Miniftrie , by Divine inftitution. 4. Though the infallible guidance 0/ the Holy Ghoft given to the Apoftles , and being to them in ftead of the rule , was indeed Angular and extraordinary ; Yet as theLord to all hisOrdmances,hath annexed the pro- mife of an agreeable prefence, which doth not fail the fincere and faithfull improvers,foj Church Afiemblies in matters of Faith to them committed, and follow- ing the rule thereto prefcribed , .are alio thereby countenanced , and in found beleeving and upright walking > may both attain to , and profefs their aflu- rance of the Holy Ghofts affiftance. f Seing that all Councel-acts and Canons , anent matters of Faith , ought to be guided by the Spirit , and conform to the word of God , and enacted and emitted in this per- fusion j thefe Meetings that truly keeping the rule, and fincerely laying hold on the promife , do proceed in their determinations , may therein warrantably ufe the Apoftles words ; andfuch as do other waves , are only culpable in the prefumptuous ufurpation,becaufe they have not rightly followed , and in effect attained unto the rule of the Word , and the conduct of the Spirit , which ought indeed to be their warrant. 6. Having on thefe clear grounds declared the Authori- ty of Ecclefiaftick Meetings in Matters of Faith, I freely grant that in other things , which may be inci- dent to their cognition, and are not of Faith nor de- lined in Scripture 3 they have neither the like warrant, nor Anfwered. 109 nor may they ufe the like expieffions ; and there- fore as in this cafe , they cannot found upon the Lords Commandments , fo they are only to be refpe&ed as. fnch , who are intruded to give their judgement) and havt obtained merc'u of the Lord to be faithfull. 7. The con- tradiction which you alledge itis for fallible men to fay, it feems good to the Holy Ghoji, is abundantly falv- ed j both by the infallible rule of the word , to which they are aftrifted , and by the never- failing promife of him who is the Tiuth , and will be with his own to the end of the world: And your lapfe in this objec- tion > is but the fame with your former againft Mini- fters , their calling their Preaching the Word of God> which I have already fully coufuted .• And thus I hope all impartial Men may fee that the jus divimtm , being in this matter our rule j the Independants have not tht better of us, as you groundlefly give out. Next you proceed co challenge our Difcipline , and what warrant we have for it? but? feing as to the fubftance you are fatiffyed by your N. C. Anfwere > from the Excommunicating the Inceftuous Perfon> and the noteing rhefe that walk diforderly , togeth- er with his & cat era (which you may finde" very clearly amplified by many able Men) and do only fall a nibling at the circumftances of publick Repen- tance , Why fo mam daves i (which might be quefti- oned of any number) And why in a place of repentance $ And Why fometimes the ufe of Sacksdoath f all well enough anfwered by your N.C his telling you of the power of order iu external Circumftances > given to the Church for Edification } I come to weigh 5 the ftollen advantage , that you flatter your felf to have gained , over your poor Adverfarie > which you carry on| with the like queftions: As 1. Why may the Church impofe fuch dayes of penitence 5 and not as well order j i © The third Dialogue. order to all , for the fins of the yeart the penitence of Lent, 2. Why is a part feparate for Penitents , and not for communicating i and thirdly Why may not a Church' man offciat in a Surplice as-well as a penitent put on Sack? cloth ? and that the fimple may fancie a pungencie in thefe empty conceits, you make your N. C* con- kfsafurprifyfh and refuge himfelf in a childish im- plicite belief of his Minifters ability above hrs own: whereupon you fo vainly triumphe , that I am asham- ed to reprefent fuch a mean piece of pageantrie , but to the matter , dayes are ailigned to Penitents > be- cauletime being a neceiTary requifite, and its length- ening or shortening , very conducible for the end of publick Penitence, the edification of the Church the deterring of others , and the through convincing and gaining of the perfonj according to either the qua- lity of the offence 5 or condition of the Offender , its prudent regulation , as of a matter therefore left undefined, can no more be denyed to the Church > then the exacting of Penitence it felf \ but as for your expiatory qmrantam of Lent , as it bears no parity to the reafon by me adduced, fo? it imports fuch a de- lay of repentance , hardening in fin , encreafe of Superftition , and relaxing again to Licentioufnefs > that it is hard to fay, whether its appointment be more groundlefs , or its efTe&s pernicious * If you* object its firft rife, and occafion , from the wel- mean- ing obfervance of pious Men, I willnot tell you , that the famine flowed from their miftake , of our Lords total and Miraculous abftinence by the fpace of 40 dayes , neither by himfelf repeated , nor by his Apoftles imitated : Nor what a fuperftru&ureof vanity, may be built on fuch foundations : but when you confider its great depravation , and bad fruits , 1 hope you will eafily incline to,iay What is the chaff to Anfwcred. 1 1 1 to the wheat * The invention of Man , to the Ordi- nance of God * 2. A place is feparate for Penitents that thev may be Noted , Rebuked and Ashamed , that others may fear j but to feparate a. place for Communicating, more then is done by us, in the time of the Adminiftration, what shadow of reafon can be adduced for it * Specially after the Idolatrous fuperftition , whereunto it hath been abuf- ed , and from which unto this day, mens mindes are not throughly purged : Witnes thefe Supeiftitious Bowings , Cringins , and Kneelings , which your English Prelatick- Church doth ftill retain. As to the third point , I will not fay , "that where the Sur- plice in token of Innocencie is molt ufed,the Sack-doth of Penitence would be more agreeable : Nor may I Hand to shew you the Ufurpation , and evils of Mens impofing Significant Ceremonies , others have done this already unanfwerably ; but the Difparity which I finde in your inference , is, that Sack-cloth in Feni- tence for Grofler fins 3 was by us appointed (though not univerfally and conftantly pra&ifed ) not as pro- perly Significant, either of the Penitents guilt, or remorfe , feeing it hath to neither any fuitable raport ; but as that , which being at firft the fquallid neglecl: flowing from, and thence becoming thecuftomable eflfeft of deep and bitter mourning , might be botha humbliing badge to the delinquent, and a mean of fear to others ; whereasyour Surplice, is arbitrarily inftitute , andimpofed to fignify Innocencie, without either reall foundation, or furricient warrant, wherein , whether you do moreufurpagainftGod'sPrerogative> to appoint Sacred and myfterious Signes , and that fimplicitie , in which he hath fet forth his Gofpel , or be moregrofly miftaken in the event, and fruit of your application, is a great queftion i I grant , that Necefc fity i ix The third Dialogue fityor Decencie, have introduced many things cir- cumrhnrial , that are rational , and confequently upon fome real antecedent ground , expreifive of their ufe and end . as grave apparel in Paftors , a becoming covering of Pulpits , Tables in facred ufe > regulation of time, poftures, geftures , and the like, without which, worship cannot be performed ; but to aicnbe a liberty to the Church, of appointing Ceremonies, having forreafon of their figmricatton , the willoi the Inftituter, and their ufe only intne reprefentation, is fomanifeft an impingement upon Divine authori- ty , and the Sacraments rherebv ordained , and hath already produced fuch a mafs or Supeiftitious fuper- fluity , in the Romish-Church , that I rr.ucbi admire to finde a ferious Perfon , pleading for fuch roppei ies j fpeciallyfeing, that this once granted , and common Refemblances fuftained for good war rants , not only all Chriftians might be put to wear , at leaft to aiTtm- ble alwayes in their whites , but all the Allegories in Scripture , as the drinking in of the fv.cere mill^ o; the word , fiand therefore hai trig \our loins g>rt> (S'c. And hundreds more , may be turned unto fuch vain shows, ea all Imagerie more probablv allovved : where you ay that both Surplice and facecloth were equally praBi fed under the Law , I muft by the way tell you , that I finde not Sack-cloth therein commanded as a fo!emn fignifkant Ceremonie, J fi\ commanded <# a folemne Ceremonie , for that vou tinde it, not only mention- d> as the ordinary concomitant of more grievous mour- nings, nay by th. Prophets even literallv commanded , as aifo baldnes , fitting in the dufr , howling and wallow* ing in *ftje.r,the better to exprefs that ferious mourning, whereunto the Lord did call , is plainly obvious , and can only inferre , that therefore , and after this man- ner , it is the more capable to be ftill contained. And for ia Anfwered. nj for the Surplice , or rather the white linen and the Efbods , befide their expnfs Warrant , the main thing or this Controverfie , they had fuch an agreeable con- veniencie, and decencie to the ferviceof Sacrificing, then in ufe, and might probably in the Priefts , to whom they appertained , have had fuch a prefigu- ing refpeft to the immaculate innocencie of Jelus Chrift, our great Prieft and Sacrifice, and yet did fo little appear in the more folemne Garments of the high Pneft , that the example adduced doth rather redargue, then confirme your continuance of this » now idle Rite: I might further tell you, that the ufe of Sack cloth among us was not offended at ; and if it had, would probably have been forborne; And alfo adde to thefe clear difparities , your rigid lmpof- ing and exacting of thefe your Doctrines , more then the Commandments of God , both in prejudice of Chnftian Liberty , and to the flighting of true godli- nefs y but vvhether the difparities above mentioned be fubtile fhij'ts as you are pleafed to judge , before you hear , or foiid differences , thefe who are lefs prejudi- cate will eafily difcerne. In the next place , you returne , to show us our difformity , with the Scripture-pattern , in demand- ing Wrhv we do not obferve the decree of the fir fl Council at Jcrufalem ? to which I anfwere ; that we obferve it > except in fo far as it w as defigned to be temporarie, and framed to bury the Synagogue with honour vi%. in the matters of Bloud and things ftrangled : And as for meats offered to Idols , the Apoflle Paul did thereaf- ter declare that point , fo that in thefe particulars, the Decree doth not reach us; This anfwere as to your re- ply differeth nothing from your Non-conformifts. And therefore I proceed , and really Sir , I rinde in your return fuch pitiful inadvertencies, as to the Text H of ii4 The third Dialogue of Scripture , that I cannot but premife my wish , that in the ftudy of it you may become more ferious. i. You fay that to aliedge that the exceptions in the decree Were made to pleafe the jews , is a divifidphanfie againji exprtffe Scripture , and yet the Text beareth , James firll propounding the thing , and plainly adding , this reafon AB. 1 5. 2. I . For Mofes in old time hath in every City them that Preach him, &c. Whereupon it follows, then pleafed it the lApoftles , pray Sir 9 confider the Text, and what this then can els import? 2. You fay St Paul wrote his Epiftle before he went to Jerufalem and yet James tells him thefe things were ft ill obferved there ; whence you infer that commands in externals may be loth local and temporarie : what indiftindtnefle , and bad logick have we here/ If you mean that Paul wrote his Epiftle 5 that I mean anent meats offered to Idols 5 before he went up to Jerufalem , from the Ghurch of Antioch , to that Councel of the Apoftles , and Elders , the Scripture is contraire , showing that his travels unto Greece > and all his dealing with the Corinthians, yea and almoft all his Epiftles,were there- after ; but if you mean that he wrote be for his going up thereafter mentioned iAft.li. it may befo indeed j as to his Epiftles to the Corinthians -> and fome other3 but then the Apoftle lames , only tells him a that the beleeving Jews were ftili zealous of the Law , and that they were offended ? that he taught the Jews a- mong the Gentiles to forfake Mofes , which is fofar from concerning theDecree under conlideration.or the proving your point , that a thing may be obligatory in one place, and not in another, that as lames ad- vifeth Paul to purge himfelf of that calumny , anent the Jews,fo> v.Z$ he exprefly refumeth, and feclud- eth the cafe of the Gentiles , before determined: As to Your other inference , that Commands in externals > are not mended for Ufiing obligations, J grant this De- Anfwered. ny cree, or any other having a temporary reafon , is there- by determinable -3 but if your meaning agree to your too vilible defign , to refolve the Euduiance of thefe things, which are ablolutely fetled , into the Arbi- tnment of the Church , or rather of the Civil Powers (for it is evident,that,though in all your difcourie, you pretend the Church? yet you take your meafuresfrorrt the Civil Authoritv ) it is not only groundlefs, from the matter of the Apoftles their Decree, but of dan- gerous conlequ^nce , to the shaking loole of all Reli- gion:for proof whereofj/ee how upon the back of this difcourfe , you boldly attempt to make even the very Sacraments Arbitrane,by asking why weufe not waking of feet jfince there is hj Sacrament fet down more punctually in Scripture t And when your N. C . retorts , that you are under the fame obligation (which retoition may be pertinently made to moft of your objections) you tell him , that you have a deaf anfwere , that In thefe ex~ ternals > God intended no perpetual obligation • and there- fore in them you follow the practice of the Catholic^ Church: O unhappy Bohemians , and you other Chriftians > whofuffcred fo much, and fo grievously, for the retainning or the Cup , in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper 5 If this new Doctor , who with his New Light , can penetrate unto the fecrets of God , and mcafure the duration of his intentions , had lived in your dayes , he could have told you , that the Cup is but an external I thing , under no perpetual obligation], and by his Doctrine oiConvemencie , led vou to a fafe and peacefull Accommodation to the practice of the Catholic!^ Church: but Sir , they are at reft: As for this your Laxe acceptation of a profefled indiffcrency in externals, what part of the Chriftian Religion or Worship , may it not corrupt , or fubvert t and feing it doth tolerate and allow > the not prattifmg effki H % was* 1 1 6 The third Dialogue tv a jibing of feet ^ to you? as well founded In Scripture , as either of the Sacraments , would it not in a juft parity ofreafon, diipenfe with, and forego thefe alio? This is indeed doftrine fo damnable, that I hope it shall ne- ver need an Antidote , and therefore I rcturne to ex- amine your third or eight Sacrament ( J know not which , tor all are but externall ) of wajhing of feet , Ana you fay, That it hath in Scripture the Ehment > Water, the ABion , waging the feet > the Inftituthn9 as I haie done fo dove , And ye ought to wafh one ano- thtrsfuty andthefpritualufeofit-) Humility: Whence you conclude, Why do ye not therefore ufe this rite? To which laft point, it is, that waving any further difcourie anent the Nature , and requifkes of a Sa- crament , whereof, notwithftanding your parrallel defcription of this washing , yet I perceive you are loath to apply the name , I shall direct my anfwere viz. that this washing is not to be ufed , becaufe , though our Lord did praftife this lo wly aft of Conde- fcendence , as eminently expreffive of that humility , whereunto he would have his Difciples inftrufted ; yet, neither is it in it felf, of the Nature of a Sacra- mental figne , whereof all thefignrficancie is from the inftitution , and vertue in the exhibition of the thing figmfied , which you cuningly omit to mention y Nor doth Chrift perform it by way of Inftitution, for Repetition; but by way of example, for Imitation, as is manifeft from the Text, Jobn.iT,, 4. &c . where wefinde , that our Lord doth fii ft wash his Difciples feet, before he told them what he was a doing, and then having done the aft not Jimpfa Jighificant by his appointment ; but of it felf as the efTeft expreifing the greateft humility as its caufe , he teaches them not a folemne reiteration , but the uft in thefe words , If 1 % our Lord and Mafxer haie wafced your feet? ye alfo Anfwered. 1 17 txght to wafa on another* feet : If I have been among \ou as hethatf.rveth , fo i ught ye to ferve one another ; for I have given \0M,an example that \e jhould do as I have done to vow. I have noc shewed you humility in a figure , to be repeated for your remembrance, but by a folid practice taught you , the like performance : fo that to turne this pattern unto a rite , is in effect as far from our Lords purpofe, as the instruction of plain exam- ples , is preferable to that of Myftick reprefentations ; which exporition is fo true, and found , that as this phanfie of yours , was never owned by the Church of Chrift, fo, it is moll certain, that whtre it hath been followed, (I mean by the Pope) and this action hath been ufed , as a rue , it hath only been made a colour to the molt prodigious , and fuperlative prioe , that ever the fun beheld : and thus 1 hope all men may fee that the not ufing of this washing , never again uf- ed , for any thing we read , by way or Sacrament, or Ceremony , either bv our Lord , or his Apoftles, and Churches ; is neither a d/jformit-in us , from the Scripture, nor an argument tor your irreligious laxe- nefTe in things you call externals. As for your Demand,;^ in your TVorfcip do you not KJfs one another with a holy KJfs ? feing it is no where commanded in worship , as you feem boldly and igno- ra.idy to fuppofe , and the Chnftian manner of the thing, in cuitomary civility, is only recommended bytheApoftle, asanallayofchaftity, and kindneile in Civil rencounters , the queftion is , but a petulant extravagancie of your vain imagination. Next you Enquire why do \ou not anoint theficl^ with oyl f I anfvvere though you addrefle this demand to a N. C. yet it is evident, that your conclufion ol aitfor, N mity to the Scripture pattern thence inferred, is equal- ly levelled , againft the whole Proteftant Church , H 3 wherein 1 18 The third Dialogue wherein this Ceremony is univerlaily difufed > and that not from your vain warrant of the Churches Au - thoricy in and over things exprefsly commanded , as you judge this rite to be; No, this is a prefumption fo nigh , and laxe , that even the groffeft Papifts , are unwilling to avouch it j but the found anfwere of all the Churches is , that as the cuftome of Anointing might hive been occasioned , from an obfervance then in ule in thefe parts, where Anointings were much more ordinary then in our parts of the world -> fo , it is mentioned in the Scripture by the Apoftle lames,not by way of Command, but as the accuftomed Sym- bole , adhibiteintheexercife of the Gift of healing , which being then Ordinary in the Church , is com- manded to be applved by the prayer of Faith, where- unto the effect is iolely referred , and only with the formality of Anointing, as being then cuftomaryin the like cafes , fei rig then that the Text runs clearly thus, is aiivfic}^? let him call the Elders , and let them pray over him anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord , and the prayer of faith (hall fave the fic]^^ And that the application of the extraordinary Gift of heal- ing by prayer,, with the then ufuall circumftance of Anointing, is here only enjoyned , how can you make this Text Dinding as to the manner and circumftance ? when you cannot but acknowledge, that the fubftan- ce viz. the power of healing is ceafed. But having made your N. C. fayTW the Apoftle promifes reco- very upon the anointing, you turne to fight with your ovn shadow, and tell him There is no fuck matter \ that the recovery is pro ni fed to prayer , and alfo forgiveneffe j and feing we pray by all for their raifingup , and that they may be forgiven, why do we not a fin el anoint ? But, what Lo^jck can make out this confluence in as much as Anointing being there only fpoken of as the conco- mitant Anfwered. 119 mitant rite ufed in the application of the Gift of heal- ing , itis manifeft that without the exigence and exer- cife of the Gift it felf , it is not now to be repeated \ and therefore though praser be principally comman- ded as the fpeciall mean, by which even the Gift of Miracles was actuate and made erTe&uall , and to this day doth remain as the great one by which all the pro- mifes either for raifmg up or remiilion are dra wen out unto effect; yet thence to inferre that Anointing, a peculiar folemnity in the Gift of healing , should ftill continow , notwitftanding the Gift it felf beceafed, is, veryabfurd: Now that Anointing was an Ordi- nary obfervance in the exercife of the Gift of healing you may read it clearly in the Difciples practice Marl^ 6. 13. ^And they Andnted with oil many that Here ficl^ and healed them.' This being then the juft and true ac- count, not only of our practice, but aho of that of thewhole reformed Churches , how vain and ridicu- lous are you to tell us , that our pretenfe of Scripture n but to impofe on women and Jimple people, and all our pcrfuafion , grave nods and bigwords : but leaving you to purTpetuhntly where you can prove nothing, I proceed to vour next demand , who taught w the change of the Sabbath* and vcu f.-y we will read the Bible long are we fittdi it there • which you think futfkiently proved . when vou tell us That the Churches meeting recorded to have been on the fir ft day oftheweel^t faeth not that thev artiauatcd t'-e Saturndav,(2LS vou are plea- fed verycourflv tofpeak ) and that of the Lords day, faveth ;et left : Sir , for anuvere , let me only tell you, that by this your conceited flighting of Arguments, which you cannot ani were , with your vain arguings, againit thefe things which you cannot difprove, you have discovered to me the deep wifdom or Sofomons contradi&ory-iike a trice , axfwereafovl . and anfwere H 4 him 120 The third Dialogue Jiimnot > Prov. 26. 4 and 5. in folausiying a recon- ciliation, that remitting you for anfwere, left you be wife in your own conceit , to the labours of thefe wiio hive cleared this point above cavillation , 1 forbear to make any further anfwere left I should be like unto you ; Onlv I think it worth the obierviug how like the progrefle of your dangerous Lihertimfme is to that verdict of the Apoftles , 2. Tim. 3.13. Your firft fally was only againft ruling Elders and Deacons, the next attacques the veryDifcipIinc of Church,your third endeavours to introduce theSupeiftition of Lent? the TableAltar-wife, &the Surplice, & to corrupt the worship , your fourth refolves the neceifitv of Baptif- me and the Lords fupper , into t he Churches arbitri- ment, your fifth pleads for Extreame Un&ion , or els a liberty and power to the Church above the Scrip- ture , and your (ext to compleat the carier of your de- lufions , Notwithftanding that the ckareft light both of Reafon and Religion , do exact a definite con- ftant portion of time , for a reft , and this reft to be holy unto the Lord , that the Law of God in recom- mending the celebration of the old Sabbath , doth found it upon a perpetual determination of the feventh part of time, grounded on Divine Authority, and example, andlaftly, that the Scripture in the anti- quating of the fervice and obfervation of the Jewish Sabbath , doth evidently tranflate the keeping of the perpetual holy reft unto the Lords day, the firft ot the week, Notwithftanding , I fav, of thefe firme grounds your fext attempt darres to unfix thisgrandOrdinance. the reverence or contempt whereof, hath in all ages of the Church, by experience been found of great mo- ment, and unqueftionable influence, either as to the promoving or decay of true Pietv and GodlinefTe : howjuftly may it be faid of you and vour Compli- ces 3 who endeavour to make void the Divine in» Anfwered. 121 ftitution of this day, which your predeceflburs .o grotly and wickedly proianed , ye be tvhneffes th,rei ore unto -<>ur (elves , that you are their Children > fill ye up the mtafun o, our Fathers : Hut O tear left you do noc cf- cape the damnation of Hell : I will not take Notice of your own or our Non-conformift's meen reflec- tion on thele tilings, That they may prove our Church w '< not perfB , but will not jujlify vow, your an (were to that , which ioliows viz. do you mean to lay afide the Scripture? 1 rather to be confidered , wherein leav- ing the retortion or vour objected infolence , and big pretending, to the impartiall examiner of what you have all. dbed and 1 replied,] come co your fumme of the ivhuL matter , «\ men you fay , is , That the Scrip- tures mere defigy.edb. God , fur the purifying of the hearts and converfatio.s of Men; Moft true : And therefore it was not neceffaire they frould contain direB rules for the Church-policie > which hinga half Chill matter , needs not Divine warrants , a ftrange inference , whereof al- moft every word is a ridle : tocfirft you gram that the Scripture doth contain Ryles though not DireB rules for the Church-policie, andyetyouadde almoft im- mediatly , that it needs no divine warrant : Then what mean you by DireB rules , if you mean Particular as th: fubjoined Antithefis of Common dsth give us to underitand , let thefe Scripture rules Common or not be obferved , and particular determinations thereto duely fquared > and it is all we contend for: Search therefore the Scriptures and whatever latitude maybe left therein , as to the regulation of necefla y and com- mon circumftances , according to decencie and order, for Edification ; Yet I am confident , that as to the fubftance and main of the Officers , Difcipline , and Government of the Church ( the matters in contro- yeriie betuixt us ) both you shall be found thereby H 5 clearly \iz The third Dialogue clearly condemned > and wejuftificu: but if by deny- ing the Scripture , to contain direct rules , for the Church-policie, you underftand, that it only hold- eth out indircB > unflraight and ambiguous rules , ap- plicable to any forme, as may beftfute & ferve thein- terefts, andlufts of vain Men , this indeed is agreeable to your fcope j but as far from Scripture , as it is dif- fonant to the truth of God, and Great ends of the Gof- peh 2. What do you underftand by the Church policies its Officers, Difciplme and Government are the things which we contend for , If you think thefe half Civil: I would gladly learn what a Church as fuch can have more Ecclefiaftick ; certainly if a diftinct Head , Jefus Chriit ; a diftin& Authority , flowing from that all Power given to him; adiflinck manner, nothing like but wholly oppofite to the way of Civil rule -, dif- tinct effe&s and ends , as HolineflTe and eternall perfec- tion , are from external juftice , and temporal peace ; and laftly a diftinct fubfiftence of the Church , and its Policie , not only when difowned , but mortally per, fecute by the Civil Powers, may prove the Policie Ecclefiaftick to differ from the Civil , there can be nothing more clearly difterminat *, but ii by Policie you only mean the excernall protection, and afliftance, which the Civil Magiftrat may , and ought to give to the Church , it is not only half, but wholly Civil , as to its rife and caufe ; and therefore the ac- knowledgement thereof we render , under God , heartily and entirely, to the Powers , which he fet- reth up : I might further queftion what you call half Civil ? a id how you come ro deny chat Divine war- rant which at firfc you half grant* but I shall con- tent my feIf,to declare the falshood of your inference, underftood of the Difciphne and Government of Gods houfe,thefubject of our debate,by shewing you that Anfwered. 123 that its plain contradictory is a Scripture truth: viz. The Scriptures wen defigned bv God j or the Purging of the hearts, and converfnio.s of men, and therefore it was necertary they should &they do concain direct rules tor the Churches Policie, wholly Ecclefialtick, & appoint- ed by Jefus Chrift : The reafon or the coniequence is clear, not only becaufe the Church Pohae, viz. its Officers, Discipline and Government, are exprefly and directly ordained by our Lord, for our ianctitication & Salvation.as I have formerly shewen,&therefore their neceility fuch as cannot without the higheft preemp- tion be called in queftion; but alio , becaufe their uie- fulnefle, in order to thefe ends, is by divei ft Scriptures undeniably held forth : And he ( who MS the Son was faithful over his ownhouft) gave fome tApoflles and fome Prophets. &c. yea and all the Gifts, Power, Au- thority , and Directions to be found in Scriptnre $ concerning them , for the woi\ of the Mini .rie , the Edifying of the bod, ofChrijh and per ^ eftingoj the Saint* Is a truth fo evident , that I maivail , how you could adventure on this Archite&onick reafoning , and of- fer to lay down the end and project of the Goipei , and then frameand Modellits inftitutions , and mid- fes according to your own imagination , and not ra- ther humbly endeavour, in the recognifance of his wonderfull love , and lidelity to , and care of his Church, his own body, with all fobriety, to pur- fue the knowledge , and practice of what things -io- ever he hath ordained for ics edification ? I might further remember vou> that the rebuke, and all the Censures of discipline are for Edification, the Saving of th foul, making found in the faith, find Caufing o- thers to fear 1 and that we finde the exercife of the Churches Authority , and Government , in that Meeting and Decree made at hritfakm, attended with 124 The third Dialogue with Theconfolation and ejtaUifhment oj the Churches r Butifyour ovvn concelfions be but a little piefled > they will eafily exhibice tiieinconfiftencieof your va- nity : you fay then , Th it the common rules are in Scrip- ture T. That there frodd be Church Officers, and are not .ieir Power , Degrees and Mimftcrial Autho- rity , as certainly therein defined, z That thefe foould be feparate for that junction , Ought not then the belt among them , give themfelves continually and wholly to Prayer, and to the Minifterie of the word, with- out ufurping a ftated fupei ior Order of Governing , as their fpeciai work , let be immixing themfelves by privilege in fecular Courts and affaires i 3. That they f\n,ould be obeyed : is this their power for difcipline and Government fet down in Sa-ipture,& not alfo its rules & limites ? Were the Apoftles more then Minifters o.fChrift , and Stewards of the Myftenesof God? was not the fure word ofProphecie their great war- rant? When the Apoftle Paul is about to let order in the Church of Corinth , hear his Preiace , be ye fol- lowers of me even as I alfo am ofChrifl : And as in the ordinance of theLords Supper,he only delivers what he had r.cei-jcdoftht Lord, fo, even as to that fmalleft of matters , the Length and Fashion of the hair , doth he ufe any other Auchority , then what hefeconds with rational perfuafion t Ho w far was he then from that dominion over our Faith , which you alcribe to the Church , not only of appointing (igniricant in- ftrufting Ceremonies , but of abrogating things as ex- prefly ordained , in your opinion , as the true Sacra- ments. 4, Y oil &y , That things fcould be done to Or- der , Edification and Peace , keep within thefe bounds, and invert not this Method , and we are agreed ; but if you fubfift not in the regulation of the manner , but wil impofe New things>wiuch theLord requireth not, nay Anfwered. 125 nay 5 which he abhorreth even your own inventions , framed to your own lufts and interefts, or produced by your delufions, &rhen make peace your Argument,be- caule ye will not allow it to fuch,as inConfcience can- not conforme; the Lord, who ha ih founded ZionSc Reigns in it,& who hathbuilded his Houie & rules o- ver it, will one day judge: Thus you fee how thefe your everlajting obligations, do fully conclude, all the truths that we aflert : Where you adde that the other Hides are noiv altered with the alterable flat e of things whernoito they were accommod.it e , if you underftand it foundly, of thefe things only which are indeed ceafed , it is a very certain and allowable truth ; but you remember noc that in the veiy Page preceeding, you impute this alteiacion fo grotty to the bare Pra&ice of the Catho- lickGhurcn, ( a very doubtfull terme) and thereby not only unfetle Scripture foundations,as to the Sacra- ments, but endeavour to introduce fuch an arbitrary authority in the Church , that in place of eftablishing true Chriftian Liberty , which you feem here to aflert, it is evident, that you go about plainly tofet up; an abfolute Spiritual tyranny , over the Church of God , and fo to load it with the Ceremonies, and innova- tions , a bondage more fevere then the old difpenfa- tion, from which we are liberate ; but blefled be our Lord Jefus Chnft , who hath delivered us , not only from that old Law of Ordinances , but hath made us free, that we should be no more the Servants of Men , nor liable to be judged in meat or drtnl^, or in rcfpecl of an holy Dav , or of the new Moon , or of the Sabbath \ and having blotted out thehandwrittingof God's Ordinances, that was againftus, hath put no new blank in Mens hands for their own devices , and luperftitions : To conclude then , in your own words, thefe things arefo rationall and alfofo cUarU de- duced 126 The third Dialogue duced from your own conceilions , tnat Ifeenothing either to be excepted 3gainft our Conformity to the Scripture pattern and the true Chriftian liberty, both in opinion , and practice , which we maintain ; or to be alleaged for your pretended liberty , confiftihg in a Licentious abfurd impofing on fuch, whom you acknowledge to be free. But in order to this laft point , viz. your attempt to remove a Scripture rule, eafie in it felf, and im- parting true Libertie to its obfervers , and to fet up an unwarrantable Yoke of Church Authority in its place, I conceive it is , that here you go about , to reprefent your N. C. as a vain and clamorous boafter, of the Crown, Throne and Kjngdome of our Lord, on purpoie , to prejudicate againft our juft complaint of your invafion and Robbery: but waving your Calum- nious Methods , I shal only endeavour to fpeak furth the words of truth and fobernefie. I shall not here difcourfe of the Kingdom of Chrift in all its parts, whereunto wefinde in Scripture both the outward Protection of the Church, vengeance upon A dverfa- ries , and all judgement, t ven the great and laft afenv- cd ; but , in order to our prefent purpofe , I affirme plainly , that our Lord Jefus as the Redeemer , is in a peculiar manner exalted to be Head and King in and over his Church , by vertue of which Kingdome , he fendeth forth , and Authorizeth his Ministers , hath defined their Order and Power , determined Cen- tres, and given and declared Laws to be obferved in his houfe , and that in fuch a manner ,. and in that per- fection, that in all things properly thereto relating, he hath only left to the Officers by himfelf appointed, a Miniftena! power of adminiftrationj fo, that there is neither place left, nor power given , to diminish from , or aade to the Officers ? Laws ? Cenfures , and Anfwered. 117 and Orders , which he hath therein eftablished that thefe things are fo, cannot be better cleared > then by remitting you to our larger Catechifme , where,as you will finde fatisfying Scripture proof for their confirmation , fo really J cannot but , by the way, recommend to you its morefenous ftudy ,for the curing of that loofeneffe in Principles , which al- moft in every thing you difcover : My part at prefenc shall be to consider your flrangedifcourfe on this lub- jec~t ; You fay then, Cbrisl's throne-, Crown and King- dom are inward and fpirituall not of the World > nor as the KJndoms of the World . Sir , though I ac- knovv ledge the Scripture phrafe , in this matter to be Metaphorical] y Yet I wish you had better obferved it , and forborn the hard and unufed exprefiion of an Inward Crown : But to the queftion, Chrifts King- dom is indeed in its power , andeffe&s (the reftric- tion a little above premifed being remembredj inter- nal! and Spirituall, but doth it therefore follow? that its adminiftration is not externall and viiible , when the Lord declared all power to be given unto him, and by vertue thereof fent forth his Apoftles and Mi- nifters, and gathered Churches , having peculiar Rul- ers, Laws, and Ordinances ; was not this both vifi- ble, and audible K Are not all the acts of Difcipline and Government , properly thereto referable, of the fame Nature? Our Lords Kingdom is truely not of the World , nor at the KJngdomes thereof, is it therefore not in the World? What doth this arguing conclude .«* You proceed, a great part oj his Kjngdom is the li- berty whereto he hath called us , and I grant, that as li- berty , and deliverance from Sin andSatan, areamong itschoife bene'ites , and therefore the exultation of Xachariah his thanksgiving, fo our liberation from the yoke of Jewish Ceremonies;and all fuch bondage, is 1 as The third Dialogue is that which we readily acknowledge j in oppofitioM to your unwarrantable exactions : but what would you thence inferred becaufeChrift hes liberate us from the former flavery , and Pedagogie> hath he there- fore lek us to the worfe Tyranny of mens pretended, and corrupted power, and deluded imagination ? God forbid ; but as he hath fet us free for ever, fo he hath only laid on us 3 his own ealie Yoke > and light bur- then, of Pure and Evangelic k ordinances, by which our Liberty is fo far fj om beirg infringed > that it is thereby both prcfeivedandenLrged. In the next place you i&yshtce no your profane fcoffing at the Kingdome of Chrift is one paflage , amongft many , that give me Confidence to fay , arife O God plead thine own caufe , remember how the fooliih man reproacbetb thee doyly* But I profeffe I am confounded in my felf > when I think of my own provocations , and on the iniquitie ot his Sons and Daughters \ for if the abufe of the Glorious Gofpel, shineing amongft us in fo much purine > had not been great , he would not have given up the dearly beloY- ed of hisSoul into the hand of fuch perftcuting adver- faries, and fuch fcoffers at him, who juftitiethefe malicious mockers in 0*jd/>/; what the Lord might have done but humbly and thankfully to acknowledge what he hath done, fo, in thefe things for men to difown his Au- thority , and den^ his bounty , and ufurp to them- felvesa power erf altering , what he hath eftabhshed, and fashioning the worship and Government of Gods houfe, according to the device of their own heart, is no doubt no lawful liberty , but a licentious inva- sion of Chrift's preio2ative,anda jealoufie-provoking fin of L:j?fe Majeftie Divine. That thus it ftands , be- tuixt you and us , the preceeding paflages do plainly witnefs, and the faith fulnefs of JefusChrift, as a Son over his own houfe , fo exprefly commend- ed , and preferred before the faithfulneHe of Mofes , is an argument , which vou will never diflblve : Yon fay his faith fulnefie corfisled in his di [charging the Com- million given him by his Father : Moft certain ; but you ^ik wh o told us that it (YCw^oieyow mean the appoint- ing the Officers Ordinances and Government of the houfe of God ) was in the Fathers Commifjion e. Herein is a marvellous thing. You know that Jefus Chrift whriftwas fent by the Father, to redeem , gather, feed,guid and Govern his Church; and you fee , that as the things in queftion are thereto necerTarie , fo iri difcharge hereof, he fends out Apoftles , and Mini- fters , Ordains Oncers , vefts them with power and Authority , initru&s them to a Jvlinifterial , and low- ly adminiftration and deportment , defines Cenfures, ap- Anfwered. 131 appoints his Ordinances , arid Laws , liberats the Worship of God from the shadows > and types of the Jewish Pedagogic , and clearesits true and fpiritu'al exercifeand liberty , and finally acquits himfelf faith- fully in all his hou'e: do you thenqu^ftion , if he did thefe things , or doubt you that he did chem by Com- mifiion ? it is a hard Dilemma which you will never evade : but you adde th.it if we argue from Mofcs it mill in erre that all particulars muft be determined l where- upon you urge , that as Mofcs determines the duyes of Separation or a legal unclean neffe , why doth not the Gofpel the like jor fpiri. nail uncleamiejfe ? it's anfwer- ed? if you had taken up the Argument aright and con- fidered the faithiulneflfe of Chrift and Mofcs , not in order to the fame; but with relation to their refpe&ive, Commitfions ? You had not fallen into this miftake ; but the Scripture parallel , is clear , Mofcs as a fervant did faithfully & completely order Gods houfe ?l there- fore Our Lord much more as a Son? hath thus or- dered the Church , his own houfe : Whence as it doth no wayes follow, that whatfoever things were inftitute by Mofcs , ought to have been in like manner imitate by our Lord ; fo this is moil concludent , that as Mofcs , as a Servant , did diligently and exactly execute his Commifllon, in order to the Tabernacle , its fervice , Minifters , and all its appurtinents , fo Chrift, both by reafonof a command received and of his intereftand power , hath exceeded the faithful- ncfTe of Mofes , in the Ordering and appointment of things appertaining to his Church : But for the better confirming our Reafoning } and the removing of your Miftake , I do only recommend to you this obvious truth, w(. that the Commendation of our Lord held out by the Apoftle in this comparison > inftitute betuixthimandMo/fj, regardeth the Manner? but 1 Z not. 13 x The third Dialogue not the fubjecl , of their adminiitrations ; Not what was the Nature or extent oi'Mofes his truft , but what was his diligence, and fakhrulnes in the difcharge , is the light and argument ot the parallel : fuppofe two intruded in imployments 5 wholly diverfe , and ina- dequate , and theexaft fidelity of the one truftie , to be notourly known , may not the faithfulneis of the othek , be thence very properly commended ? And wil not this commendation very evidently inferre, that as the; firft was pun&uaily obfervant of all things committed, fo , the iecond did equall his exaclnefs , without giving the lealt ground to conclude , that theierore either the fecond mull have done the fame or like things , with rne firft , or yet that the firft ad- miniftration was as extenhve , as that entrufted to the fecond : this being duely perpended , and it being certain , that not the eftablishing of an univeriall , and perpetual order to all and every of the concerns of the Jewish Church , as appeares from the alteration and addition made thereafter , by David , and Solomon ; but only the fetting up of the Tabernacle , its Sacri- fices? andfervice, according to the command, ac- commodate to the then ftate of that People , was to Mofes ( and that only by peremptory prefcript, as to a fervant ) enjoined ; whereas unto our Lord , as a Son over his own houfe was freely committed the unchangeable eftablishment of his Church , in all its requints unto his coming again : then if our Lords faithfulncfle be indeed equall to that of Mofes, his appointing of Officers , Ordinances, and Laws , neceftare and convenient to his Church , with all requifite exa&nelTe , though neither after the pattern , nor in that particular and peremptory ftrift- nefTe, of Mofes his prefenptions , can neither be de- nied nor declined: Ifyouyetcavill > that this fayes to# Anfwered. 133 too much vi^. that all particulars muff be now as of old determined, It's anfwered, the determining of Particulars under the Law, was from theexprelie te- nourof JV/o/ej his Commiilion , ami therein did con- fift much of the Pedagogie,and rigour of chat shadow- ing difpenfation , from which God h kvjna now relieved us , and given us the clear light of the Gof- pel, and the fetm tigs necelTare and convenient to its holy ends, m fimplicity, parity and liberty , It is evident, that as our Lords faithfulnefle under this Gofpel adminiftration , did oblige him to provide the Church , in all things neceflay and convenient, and liberate us from all further burthen of Anuquate rites and Ceremonies , beyond the neceflary exigences of decencie and order , fo, he hath fully acquit mm- felf , in this his own houfe , as Mofcs in his houfe , and by this his faithfulnes , ior ever excluded all your fuperinduced humane inventions , whether in Church-Officers , Government or Worship: in a word, fo ill grounded is the abfurdity , where.'1 ith you would urge us •, and the fauhiulneflfe of Cnrift , compared to thatot Mofes , is fo farre from &yi \g too much , viz. th.it all particulars mufthe in the Gofpel determined, that itinferres the direct cont, -ire , vifa that feing God having coin mitted to Mcfs a Law, defcendirig to a moft ftri& prefcriptipn of Particulars, and Ceremonial obfervances , he was therein faith— full; therefore ourLord more faithful having a difpen- fation entrufted to him only of Gofpel 0.diu3nces, with a becoming liberty , hath in his ridell discharge, both fully defined the former , and eftablished the latter > free from all humane , either General or Par- ticular inventions, andimpofitions: But you go on and tell us , That Mo fa injlituted no Cburcb-Govern- mem in the way we ufc it , and that Synagogues t their i^*- I 3 ' Uis 134 The third Dialogue lers z5 chief Rjders were not appointed by Mofes , (ff. yet no unlawful thing Jince countenanced byCbrif&bi; At>ofl- for: Whence you conclude, Tta* u'tbirwbat they did,tbas founded on Dhine tradition, (which no'Chrfjlian will grant) or that a* form of Government wot devifed by ■men ', and if the Jews had tbatLiberiie, certainly the Chrif- tian Church is more free j as to thefe externals. Sir , not to detain you in a curious enquiry into thefpecial compofition> gradual advance a;:d necefTaue altera- tions of the Jewish Policie , It's anfwered, I. I have juft now told you , that. Granting Mofes did hot infti- tute any Church- Government as uled by us", becaufe neither given him in commiffion, nor at that time needfull, and agreeable to the condition of a wander. Ing people , and the difpenfation they were then un- der ♦ Yet the Scripture Argument from our Lords faithfulnefie > preferred to that or Mofes > being con- clusive of the fame , yea of a greater care of all things neceffarie, and requisite for hie Church , to the end of the World, then that which Mofes did adhibite , even in the fetting up of the Tabernacle , and its com- manded ier vice ; ffiuftof needfity inferre j both that our Lord did defaElo provide for the Miftifterie, and Government requifite in his own houfe , and that the Mnifterie and Government , which we fmde defcriv- ed in the Scriptures of the New Teitament ? are of his appointment > and fuch as may not be altered. 2. INotto mention the evident neceflity of Synagoguesj up and down the Land> for the end of teaching the peoples molt, certain dutie, which could hardly other- waves be performed , the difperfion of Levi among the Tribes , Mofes bl effing , defigning him to teach Jacob judgements , and Ifrael Gods Law , Davids appointing 4400. of the Hebronites j 1 Chron. 16. 30. 31.32. thorow all Ifrael , in all bufinefTe of the Lord Anfwered. ny Lord , and for every matter pertaining to God, as well as affaires of the King , and ^Afipbs regret , tor the burning up of all the Synagogues of God in the Land (not to mention the coincidence often hinted at in the Old Teltament, of Judges and Teachers ol the Law, in every City , and their appointment out of the Tribe ofLrj/) are grounds, more then probabL of the Divine fnllituaon of Synagogues , and their Rulers ; and that they were no humane invention, ?. The evident Testimonies that we have in the Word of God , not Oid • ot the Lords ipecial appointing of the T.:bc:n:;cle", its whole ierviceand Ordinances , frameda/ld fuitej to the then State and Poftureot chat people ; but Ala > how chat he Reformation , and efLiblishnienc made ih D avids dayes , together with the building of the Temple, its Officers and Porters> were particularly directed by the Spirit otGodj in Samuel , David > and the Seers of thefe times , lnibu- menta! in that work j i Cbrom. 9. zl. and 28. 1 r. may fufriciently evince to any rational difcerner , that the Synagogues , more material , then many of thefe circu:nlt::itial Clings expreily commanded » were alio ordained by tiie Lord, and like wile inftruct all to a molt tender , and precife adherence to the ex- prefs Will of God , m all .Matters relating to his houfe and Worship : And here , upon the mention- ing of D rvid j I cannot omit to remember, how that in all the Scripture , we findenot a parallel and type, more frequenc then that of our Lords King- dome , in and over his Church , to that at David over Ifracl : feeing then , that thefe figures have their cettain grounds ot reiemblance > and there is not a more coDipicuOus typifying Character j in the perfon of David • then , that of his Royall ordering > and eitablislung the houfe, and Church of God, where- I 4 * unto 136 The third Dialogue unto he was railed up , and particu; irly infpired , and commanded , though the raithiulnefs of Chnft , pre- ferred to that of Mofts, should not, Yet his fuccef- fionin theThrone of David to reigne over the houfe of Jacob forever, doth undeniably conclude both the Government and complete fetlcment of the Church, by us contended for : 4. If you would reflect upon trie Lords lingular Providence over his People Ifrael > firft, in that Theocratie , whereby in a peculiar man- ner he Governed them , unto the dayes of Sad , 2 . in their Urim and Thummim , and the holy Oracles of God , which they confbntly enjoyed , 3. In the continuall afftftance, which they had almoft in all times , of Prophets immediatly infpired , you cannot lightly fuppofe, that either Synagogues, or anv other Lawfull inftitucion , concerning their Law and wor- ship, were a meer humane invention • but though the evidences of their appointment > remaining with us upon record , were more obfcure , thefe para- ges alone , do render it more then probable, tha*t their Authority and rife was Divine, 5 The comparing of the Church of Chrift , to that of the Old TVftamenc isfo unfavourable to your caufe, and there are fuch manifeft difpantiesin that parallel, that it rather mak- ethagainft you then for you; for as the Ordinances of that difpenfation , were fuch , as were to be done awav and abolished • and therefore were appointed by God (who in times paftfpake unto the Fathers by the Prophets at Sundry times and in divers manners) in a va- riant and mutable forme , So , the Lord having in thefe laft dayes , and now in the end of the World, fpoken unto us by his fori, to whom hefayeth, thy Throne O God is for ever and ever, the Anointing of the moft Holy , attended by the fealing up the Vifion , and Prophetic , and the fetting up of his everlafting DOr Anfwercd. 137 Dominion , do infallibly conclude , the introducing of a more excellent Mmifterie , and the lull and im- mutable eftablishmcnt of all Ordinances , requillte to' the ingathering) and perfecting of the Saints : Sir, if thefe things were confidered by you ? and thac our Lord hath now at laft, by himfclf, given and o;der- ed, for us j a complete and perfect appointniet > of all means neceflaryin his Church , you should finde more Soul.fatisfattion in walking at true liberty m the obferving of his precepts • then in the Lafcivient fan- cies of your own vain Imagination, which not con- tent to reft in the blefled change that our Lord hath made , of the lirft Covenant , not faultles , unto this New one and better ordered , tinder the fpecious afpiring to a liberty , equal to that of the Jewish Church , doth plainly charge? the Chriftian Church, with the imperfections of that, which is decayed, and vanished. Having thus examined and'anfwer- ed the ftrain and fcope of your difcourfe •> I shall briefly go over what remains : You fay Cur Saziouy and his Apojlles countenanced the Synagogues and their Riders , and why not ? feing not only their rirft infti- tution appears to have been fuch > as I have declared ; but alio other occafions, noted in the Gofpel where- in you have no advantage , did clearly thereto invite : Next you fay That this their practice was either founded on divine Tradition (which no Chrif:i.:n trill grant ) or that a form of Government not Unlawful was devifed by Men: I anfwere i. J have exhibit-, d already war- rants for their practice ? befide tradition. 2. Might not the pofitive manner of the inftitution of Syna- gogues , have been then more clear , while the thing was in obfervance , then now it is , after its abolition, and the revolution of lo many Ages * j. If I were concerned in your parenthelis > againft Divine Tradi- tion. 138 The third Dialogue tion, I would ask you, why do >^u thus without diltinction, make the admitting otic in the Jewish Church fo great an abiurdityj? That there were Di- vine Traditions before the Word was committed to writing, and that under the dark, imperfect, and progreliive difpenlation of the Old Teihmcnt, af- ufted neverthekfs by a more immediate prefence > un- written traditions might both have been moreufuall, and were leis fallible, may be probabelv enough held, bythefe who yet, now, after the full and perfect revelation of the Gofpel by our Lord Jefiis Chnft, do upon (olid grounds ., very juftly rcjecf unwritten Tra- ditions, in tire Chriftian Church; By which reafons, you may perceive , that the one member of your ~D'iUrnna-i labouring fo fadlyof untruth,, both in its fuppofition and the 'abfurdity thence inferred , it can ho wayes be cogent to enforce the other, of the li- berty of Mans deviling in the point of Church - Go- vernment > even in the Jewish Church , let be in the Chriftian , fo many wayes more excellent: But in the clofe youiniinuate Thai the greater liberty you plead for to the Chriftian Church is in externals', Ti,iat this Ge- neral ambiguous objection is only intended for a con- venient retreat , is apparent from all the proceeding difcourfe , feeing , if by Externals , you tinderftand things in their own nature extrinfick to .the conftitu- tionof theGhurch, and 'which in' theNew Teftament have no further ufe allowed , then is conducible to decencie, and order, we willingly grant, that the Chriftian Church ( being in effect absolutely liberate from the old burthen of Ceremonies , and not (as you vainly conceit ) endowed with a greater, and more arbitrage powerof irnpoling) is indeed herein more free then the Iewish was : But if by externals yon mean , as alas the inftances premifed do too plainly fpeak, all the viable Ordinances of the Anfwered. 139 Church , fpecially tliat of Government at Ieaft, what ever is in it vitible , the liberty that you would intio- duce , is not more contraiie to the Scripture , both of . the Old and New Teftament , as I have shown, then moft licentious and irrelieious. Your laft cavill againS the exercife of our Lords Kingdom 3 in ordering the vifible adminiftratibn of his Church , is , That if this were \h\ trrt d b his head- Jhip over the Churchy his leingalfo the headoj the World* jhould argue the fame determination in the order of the World , as well as hi that of the Church. And having made your N. C. feemingly and poorly check you by faying , that Chrijls Church is dearer to him then all the World: Then you reftrift thcabfurdity , which youprefs , unto die civil Matters or the Church, and proceed infucha'ranibling difcourfe, that I am at a Hand , how to medle with it : But waving the cer,. fure of your impertinences, lanfweie i That the Mediatory Kingdom of Our Lord over his Church, and his Natural ( lb to (peak. ) Soveraignicy over the World , are fo grofiy here by you confounded , that I can only fatreatyou to be more ferious in reading, and fearching what the Scripture doth very diftni&Iy hold forth i i . Of their different rife , the one given , the other not given. 2. Of their different objects and ends, the one having & proposing theWorld & men in order to a regular and peaceable being in it, the other the Church and men therein called unto fpiritual du- ties and eternal life: And laltiy of their different ad- miniftrations , the one grounded on the dictats of reafon, and ufing external Magifterial authority and power, and fenfib.'e rewards and pains, the other proceeding on divine revelation , and carried on by no luch externals, fave afimple Minifterie , and the power internal and fpiritual s and then I doubt not but you 1 40 The third Dialogue you will of your felf rectify fuch aberrations. 2. The parallel ot Gods Government over the World , with t e Kingdom of Chrift over his Church , is , fo far £om concluding , that Arbitrary or Archite&onick power , which yon endeavour to fet up in Ecclefiaf- ticks , equail to that in Civils, that the contraire may from thence be furnciently evinced, thus , therefore God hath not determined the order of Civil matters , either in the World or in his Church ; becaufe an Ar- chiteftonick and free difpofing Government , limited with general rules, necedare to its ends , was moft fuitable to that almoft abfolute right and power , which he hath given unto man , in and over the things about which it is converfant : but fo it is that the things of the Church, about vyhich our Lord Je- fus his Kingdom is exercifed , being wholly Spiritual, are neither committed to our power, nor left unto our arbitrament \ And plainly fuch , whereof , the Lord in all times , hath referved to himfelf , the fole determination : and therefore it was clearly ne« ceflare , that all the Ordinances , Minifterie , and Government thereto pertaining , should be alfo by him alone , ordered , and appointed \ which difpa- rity", doth not only reject but unanfwerably retort your Argument from this pretenfe. 3. Your great error , and greater prefumption m this queftion is , that apprehending our Argument for the Determi- ned Ordinances and Government of Gods houfe , to Be taken from the ilmple pofitiori of his Kingdom , and the confequences , that by allufion to the King- doms of the Earth may be thence deduced . you re- member not that the Scripture not only holds out his Kingdom, and the nature thereof, very diftin&ly ; but alio doth particularly exhibite , all the Ordinan- ces neceffare unto its ends > and appointed to be there- in Anfwcred. 141 in obferved ; So that our realbning being wholly Scriptural, both in its ground and fuperftru&ure , your redargution horn imaginary reafon , oppofed to the clear and pofitive Counfel of God , is plainly irrational; if in the dayes of old, Ifrael had changed the Law, and Ordinances given, and therein dilbwned Gods particular Kingdom and Government over them, and notwithstanding thereof pretended to the liberty of the Nations about , feing this their liberty was no waves determined by, but very confifteiu with, the Lord's high Soveraignity , under which all do bow , had this poor reafoning , juftifyed their re- bellion i certainly not : how much lets then , can it conclude the exemption of the Church from Chrifls Kingdom, in thefe Ordinances therein by him esta- blished , of which the Lords peculiar Kingdom oyer Ifrael was but a (light adumbration. But you fay , Sting juflice k a part of Gods Law , ai well ai devotion , why doth not the Lord determine how his Church fr.ould be governed, in Civils, It's anfwered, Jus- tice is indeed a part of Gods Law , and he hath there- in determined , as particularly as the right, which God hath given to man in Civils , doth permit $ or the ends thereof do require \ but as this your ^Arith- metical equalizing of Mans liberty, in matters of devotion, to that power he hath in things Civil , doth fadly difcover the vvoful vanity of an unlenous Spirit ; So the Geometrical analogie of Gods determining , anent our Devotion , wholly dependent upon his prefcript , unto his general appointment in matters of out ward juftice , accommodate to that power and liberty he hath therein left us , in place of inferring an equal power to Man in both , doth , on the contraire> evidently demonftrate , that the Lords determination^ in matters of Religion, is as much more particular, then 142 The third Dialogue then his Commandments are in the things ofjufticc, as our Liberty in the former , is more relinked , then our Liberty in the latter ; if you had but confidered , that the Lord hath given the Earth unto the Children of Men , and that , the things thereof being put under his feet , an agreeable power of Government therea- nent is certainly given unto his hand; whereas our Lords Church and People are his peculiar people , his chofen Nation , redeemed and bought with his pre- cious bloud, and not their own ; let be to have the things , concerning their Souls redemption, in their power , how happily had you been delivered from this flrange confounding of things, Sacred and pro- phane -} And h'oiv clearly might you have perceived? that Gods Dominion over the World , confifting in General Laws* fluted to its object* and fwayed by his Soyeraign providence>in order to his holy ends, doth bear but little likeneffe, to our Lord Jefushis Rule , and Government in his Church , as a Son over1 his own houfe 3 andalfo its Ordinances. But to in- force your point you adde , that sou wpc we will grant that the Civil Peace is more neceftary to the very being of the Churchy then is Order in Difcipline : Whence you irtfinUate that the former as well as the latter , re- quires Chri :s particular determination : Not to Scan- dalize you by fruftrating your hope ; Sir , you know fo well , that a thing though more neceflary ; Yet if fuch only by a mediate and confequential neceffity , may therefore fall under a quite diverfe difpolltion , from that , which though lefs necelTary , by this me- diate and extrinGck rieceflity , to the being of the Church , then the Sacrament ofthe Lords Supper, do the former therefore, afvvell and in the fame manner with the latter 3 belong to Chrifts Kingdom? As to what you adde 3 That it was for this reafon that the things Anfwercd. 143 thing ofChil ftact wen id In the Old Lt.tn : This did To certainly flow horn Gods peculiar inte- reftin that People; as a Kingdom ?as well as a Church, ' that 1 make no anfwere; That which you fubjoin, for evincing, , that either the Lords Kingdom over the 1 arth doth extend to the appointing oi Civil Of- ficers , or els his Kingdom over his Church imports nofuchthing;is fo manifeftly, repugnant to the very nature of the things , and the Lords declared pleafure (the beft deciiion ) Nay this whole difcourfc doth fo foolishly ■> andlaxely caft , and weigh things Re- ligious and Profane in the fame ballance of vain con- jecture 5 that I almoft repent my noticeing of it fo much; but fee the flatterie of deluiion , having made your N. C childishly to decline all Reafon , as Car- nal , and, in the fright forfcoth of your ftrong rea- fons , retreat to his Minifters and the Bible , you ridiculously triumph over him , and think , your felf fo much Mafteroi the field of Reafon , that infinuat- ing your own praif'e, inthedefcriptionor Sound rea- fon , you puff at other mens , as pitiful niblmgs : thus being frit in your own caufe , you would feem juft, how I have Searched you let others judge: for Scrip- ture , you tell us , Tl\tto quote it , is not to build fun upon it, the Dei: I did that, and fo doallScBs : do you therefore mean , that it should be laid af de } as an in- fufTicient Jud^e , or that we ufe it no better then the Devil did? Idefre you mar explain your felf, if not for our concernment , at Ieaft for the Scriptures vin- dication ; In the mean time? I am heartily willing that both what you and what 1 have faidbe rightly pondered , and whether the Church in matters of Government be left ro rove in your pretended liberty* or more excellently eftablished by the infinite wif- dom , unfpeakable love 3 and mod tender care of its only 1 44 The third Dialogue only Lord and Head , let Scripture and Reafon im- paitially decide: But to conclude all, you tell us with a preface , That the Angels of the Churches afford us fairer likely hoods for Bi [[hops 5 then rjerwe wall finde in the Bible for Presb terie It's anfwered , feing you your felf do acknowledge > that -nothing in it (whether you mean in this place , or in the whole Scripture , the words are ambiguous ) amounts to a demonflration $ I remit the matter to the Scriptures by me adduced > 'whereby I am confident all your Likelihoods are more then counterbalanced : He who is further defuous to have thern removed , may confult M. Durham upon the Text; for my own part , fince ever I had the underftanding to confider , that the Revelation was made in a Myftick phrafe 5 that the Seven ftarres who are the Angels , do certainly fignirie the many teachers that were in every one of thefe Churches , that in the Candle-flicks , as in the Starry , we finde the fame onenefs, and number , and laftly that though to the Angel be the infeription for addrefs \ yet we finde the bodyofalltheEpiftles written directly to the whole Churches , thefe things I fay occurring I proteft I could never difcerne more reafon in this argument , for fubjefting thefe Churches unto feven fuperior fin= gle Prelates • then for making the fame Prelats really Angels j or turning every Church into a Candle ftick; Or if I may adduce another inftance , not abfimilarc to your fair) Likelihoods , for interpreting the two WUneffes-x to be the two Arch-Bishops of St. Andrews and Gl.ifgow. When you have fpent your endeavours upon the Authoritv of Epifcopacie , you think to fecondeii in the next place with its Antiquity derived y6u fay from the times uext to the Apoftles , whereupon you conclude in theie words That hotv this excrefcing power? Anfwered. 145 bower , jhould have crept into the whole Church, and 710 mention when it came in , no Prince or Unherfal Council to introduce it, in the times of per fecution when the Church ufualU is pureji , and mofl free of pride > no Secular conjidt ration to flatter , but the firfi brunt; of the per fecution aliuayes againft it , and how none op" pofed it , if this was not introduced bv ^Apoflles , or lApoftolicall men,paffethmv Dhination: And really Sir, as to its particular Methods, and increafe, fo doth it mine : And fo much more then it doth yours, that I am perfwaded from clear Scripture , that it was not only not introduced, but plainly reprobate by our Lord and his Apoftles ; Yet am I fo little thereby ftumbled, that the more dark andobfeure I rlndeits rife and progrefle , I am the more confirmed, that it is the very Myfterie of iniquity, and do fo much the more admire the incorruptible and eternall Truth of the Gofpel , which as in the beginning it foretold the coming , and took very early Notice of the firft motions of this prodigie of wickednefte ; So hath it, through the many ages of its exaltation , preferved it felf againft, and now in the latter dayes overcomes its Malice; But to review your dilcourfe more par- ticularly , I have already shewed, that the Minifte- ry and Government inftitute by our Lord, and con- firmed and pra&ifed by the Apoftles , was plainly Presbyterian \ if fo , what place for further inquirie I Is vour alledged traditional fubfequent humane infti- tution of Prelacie of greater moment f 2. That even in the Primitive times, and for 140. years after our Saviour , no veftige of Prelacie appears upon record, is the conferment opinion of the belt Searchers , both on your, and our part. 3. This plea of Antiquity hath already been fo fully handled , and improved both by yours > and ours , fpecially Hamoni on your K part, 146 The third Dialogue part? avd'Blondel, Sdim/'fiuf > and other Learned fcr- vants of Chrift on ours, than: there needs nothing be added : and where the advantage is , the Ingenuous may eafily difcerne : Hethatdefiresafolid and short accompt of the matter, may read the appendix to the jus Dhinum MiniJUrii Evangelici : But you proceed to give in fome poorfcrapes of pretended Antiquity, which not only the moft fure, and clear, andfarre more ancient Scriptures of Truth , but even the con- vincing anfweres which they have often receaved might well have made you to forbear : And firft you fay That Ignatius his Epijiles are plain language: And fo they are indeed, but too plain for you to have cited, as the following pafTages , compared with the Scrip- tures fub joined may evince : In the Epiftle to the Tralliani, we have r what is aBijhop, but he, that is foffeft of all Principality , and ^Authority bevond all , as much as is pofjible for men K Reverence the Bi ft op as ye do Chrift , as the holy ^AposJles have Commanded , &c. As the L ord Chrift doth nothing without his Father > fo , muft ye do nothing without your Bifliop , Let nothing feem right or e quail to you, that is contra to his }udge* mentJ\ In the Epiftle to the Philad. £ Let the Princes obey the Emperours > the Souldiers the Princes , the Dea- tons and the reft of the Clergie , with all the People , and the Souldiers , and the Princes , and the Emperour, let them obey the Bifliop] (no doubt the Bishop of I{ome) In the Epiftle to the Smyrrienfes ; [ The Scripture faith lionour God and the Kjng , but I fay , honour God as the xAuthor and Lord of all things , and the Bi%op as the Prince of Pricfts , refembltng the image of God? of God for his principality , of Chrift for his Prieflhood , tffc. There is none greater then the Bifyop in the Church , who is confecratedfor the Salvation of the whole World , &c. Let all men follow the Bifmp as Chrift the Father > &c. Anfwered. 147 It is not I atpfull without the Bifhop to baptise > or off, y, rye. He that doth any thing without confuting the Bi- fr.op IForflyppeth the Devil : Now on the other hand let us hear what the Scripture faith to this purpofe. Who then is Paul who Apollo but Minifiers by whom ye belecve Z Be ye followers of we , even as I alfo am of Chrifi \ for we preach not our fives , but Chrijt Jefm the Lord } and our f the s your Servants for J ejus fake: Not that we have dominion over your faith j but are hel- pers of your jos : for by faith ye fiand. Butfojhall it not be among sou , whofoeverwill be great among you jhall be sour Minister > and whofoever of you will be 'the chief efiy frail be Servant of all : to thefe adde the practices, and other profelfions of the Apoftles concerning themfelves , and their fellow.Labourers, and really Sir , when you shall make thefe things found in Igna- tius , conliftent even with the ftrain of pure Religion , and the truth of the Gofpel , let be to the Orthodo- xie > and Piety of Ignatius > and the fimplicity of his times j then shall 1 cede to the Authority of thefe Letters: Only in the mean time let me tell you, that for all the pains that Hamond hath taken, to aflert their Faith, the words above cited j do favour fo ftrongly of moll grofs and corrupt interpolation ; that not only I reject their Teftimony , as to the matter of Prelacie; but do efteem even the paflages that may be therein found for Presbyterie , as to the Trallians , be fub- jctt to the Presbyterie , as to the Apofiles of Jefm Chrifi , The Presbvters are the Council of God , and joint Affembly of the Apojlhs, andfuch like of little or no value. 2. You mention Cvprians time , but hold , I preceive your frcond Edition mends your firft , and this your practice like to that of your more innocent friend Mr. Co/«iw> in hisverfes , of giving usfecond Editions ? bearing additions , without ad- K 2 ver- j 4S Tne third Dialogue vertifsment , had indeed abufed me , If by accident I had not fallen in the review of my papers , to make life of your fecondCopie> and in this you tell us, in the next place of the ^Apoflolkall Canons , a wor\ of very venerable lAntiquitie , at leaji the firfl fiftie of ,. them , though perhaps none of the Apoflles : But firlt why fay you Perhaps , in a matter beyond all perad- venture. 2. Not to trouble you with Criticifms, he who would be refolved anent the Authority of thefe Canons, let him only read them : And as I am confident , he will be farre from thinking either the firft 50 , or the reft of them Apoftolicall , So I am certain the mention made in the 3. Can. of Sacrifi- cium , Altare , Oleum in Candelabrum , <3T lncenfum oblationis temporey a Sacrifice , Altar , oyl in the lamp, andincenfe in the time of ojftring, the 17. Can , qui vi- duam duxit , Epifcopw aut Presbyter aut Diaconus ejfe nonpotejl, he who hath married a widow* cannot be a Bfoop , or a Presbyter , or a Deacon , the 1$. Can. Ex his qui codibes in Clerum pervenerunt , jubemusut LeBo- res tantum , e^ cantor es , Ji velint , nuptial contrahant, Of Bachelors who hath entered into orders , Pleaders only and Singers if they will , may marrie , the great and conftant diftin&ion therein , made , inter Clericum> <$ Laicum , and the many other vanities therein to be found , fpecially in the laft part of them , will eafily render their venerable Antiquity of no moment , in our prefent Controverfie $ fo that neither your 40 but in effeft the 3 8. Canon, though it were more pofitive> and exprefTe for your Prelatick preheminence , nor your Synodicall injunction , to the fame purpofe, both pofterior to the firft Primitive puri/y , are of any regard: but 3. fo wretched is the caufe that you de- fend , that even in your cleareft evidences, your par- tiality and hypocrifie is manifeft ; You alledge the Apo- Anfvvcred. 149 Apoftolicall Canons in defence of your Prelatick Or- der , and yet you confider not , that the fame Canons, do not only condemn your Prelates ; But fubvert their prefentconfticution.I shall not infift upon the 14* Canon Epifcopm aut Presbyter infornicatione > aut per- • jurio deprehoifus depo)iitor : Let a Biflwp or a Presbyter guilty of fornication orftrjury? be depofed: the Zo. Epifco- pum aut Presbvterum qmfidtles delinquentes ( quid ergo fi Innocentes ) pcrattit 5 £T terrorem ipfis hoc modo in- cutit, deponi prcecipimns. We command that the Bihop or Presbyter who fmiteth delinquents , and fo becometh a terrour unto them > be depofed, what then , if they fmite the innocent : the 28.41. ?}. 57 & 75. whichlam moftaifured ? ifobferved would remove all the pre- fent Bishops and Curats in Scotland : but the Canons I offer are the 4. Omnium aliorum Pomorum Primitive E- pifcopo Let the fir ft fruits of all others aples befent home to the Bilhop and Presbyters, for it ps Manifeft that the BifJiop and Presbyters divide them among the Deacons , and the rtfl of the Clergie , 33. Cu- jufquegmw Epifcopos oportct fcire quinam inter ipfos primus lit, neque fine illius volunt.ite quicquam agere info- litum, illaautem quemque pro \e traBare , quceadParo- chiam ejus O1 loca ipfi fubdita attinent $ fed neque ilk citra omnium voluntatem aliquidficito. 3 6 . Bis in Anno Epif- coporum celebrator Synodus^ pict.itis inter fe dogmata in difquifitionemvocanto. and 80. Dicimm quod non opor- teat Epifcopum aut Prcshtcrum publicis fe adminillratu- nibus immifcerc > fed vac Art & commodumfe exhibere ufi- bus Ecclefiafticis , animum igitur inducito hoc nonf.icere j a it deponitor : together with the obvious ftrain of the while plainly infinuating, the Bishop tobe theper- fo;i > to whom the flock is principally and immediady K 3 corn- 1 50 The third Dialogue committed » and who as the Primus Presbyter, the firft Presbyter/ought chiefly to minde the charge, In whichGanons although 1 grant that their appears a precedencie of Order , given to the Bishop , over the Presbyters , (who in thefe times were many Mi- nivers ? living in one City and Society ; having the charge in common among themfelves, and with and under their &&%?»<; over the Church , and Flock in their bounds ) and alfo to the rlrft Bishop of a Provin- ce , over his Coepifcopi ; Yet I am fure your Prelatick power 3 and Superiority 5 acclaiming the fole power of Ordination , and Jurifaiction is no where thereby approved \ but rather condemned : Your third Tes- timony yotr bring from Cyprian 5 in whole time you fay That the power of Bifliops was welt regulate andSetled, and here knowing that he profefleth That he would do nothingwithout the Clergie > that he could do nothing without them , nor ta\\e upon him alone : Whereby the antient Vrojlajia ; and not your Prelacie, is plainly and only held forth : You infinuate as much, as if he had afterward retracted this opinion* and this you prove very pitifully > 1. From his anfwere to one Rjgatian a Bishop , that he by his Epifcopall vigour, and Authority had power prefently to punish a Dea- con , for an affront received , which yet doth not at all feclude the Presbyters ? according to the Rule of the Canon Law Epifcopus non potefljudicare Prefbyte- rum vel Diaconum fine Synodo , £r Senioribus ■> The Bifmp cannot judge a Presbyter or a Deacon without the Synod , and Elders. 2. From his Cenfure of He- reticks and Schifmaticks , for proud contempt of their then Bishops 5 which we do as little allow as you do. 3 . From a letter written by the Presbyters and Deacons ofBjme, after the Death of Fabian, wherein they complain of the want of one to Mode- rat 9 Anfvvered. 1 5 1 rate 5 and with Authority and advice to takeaccompt of Matters, whence you fay , that furely they thought iittlt 0 Persbvters being equal in power to Bifcops , who write fo , where the Epifcopal power feemed to be devolved upon them : but pray Sir , If a focicty confifting of Members all equal in power, but having a Head or Prefident for order , and good Rule , do regret his lofs , during the vacancie , in theft very termes , wherein lyeth the inconfiftence i How foolish then is that ftricture of your vanity , which you here (ub- join ? x»J(. bat , I believe , few of vou know the fe writ- ings \ whereas to be plain with you , in my thought , neither you nor I have given any great Specimen of this knowledge , or faid fo much , as the half of what is obvioufly to be found , in almoft any printed debate anent this matter. Sir , I mull tell you further , if I my felfe were alone concerned m this reflection, I would fcarce look upon it as a reproach worth the wipeing off, to be as great a ftranger to thefe things as ye take me to be5nor would I think many cubits were added to my ftaturetobe as knowing in them as your felf ; yet it is known that! tell the world no news , when I fay, that there have been (and to this day are) not a few great men of our way who h.ivl given fuch proof of their knowledge in theie ancillane and ruinutious things, whereof you repreiente us as ignorant $ as have made yourgreateft Rabbics iinde, that wherein they gloried they were not short of them ; and if ye know not this , ye feem to have loft your (illy felf in the Laby- rinth of Antiquitie , and by this means are fallen under the shameful reproach of being peregrinus Domi: andifyeknovvit , and yet fo fupercilioufiy aflert the contraire, what Apologiecanyemike forfpeaking fo great an untruth ? that will either fatisrie the world or K 4 your 152 The third Dialogue your own Confcience. But Sir , ingenoufly I profeflc, I pitie you for your Vanitie and folly \ for it feems ye think this the only expedient to make the world beleeve the pregnancie of your pate > and Pronounce you worthie of the Chair : but Sir, it will onely make the more lerious weep to remember who did once fill it , and should have filled it ftill , when they confider how it is become the feat of a fcorner ; and the lefle lerious will laugh at your prodigious folly. I have only one overture to propofe unto you, that your vanity maybe with fomc handfomenefs hereafter coutch- ed, and the world may let pafs what you fay with- out quarrelling at it , as a known falshood i And it is this , in your after comparings and meafurings of your abilities , that you may be taken notice of for a Non- fuch> be fo wife as to compare your felf with your Fellow- Curats , if ye hope to bear the bell , but when ye infinuateacomparifon , with fo many burning and shining lights , and then , in your Juvenile pride and felf.conceit, arrogate a preference to thefe, ye do only force men to take notice of, and enquire into, your shame and short-coming: And, if I miftakenot, fall upon themoft certain method of making your felf ftink above ground. Sir, if, in thefe two or three lines, I have digreffcd contrary to my inclination, theoccafionwilfjuflifieit, and charity perfuadesto it. But, 3. You tell us, that in the Council of Nice'j fpeakjng of the power of Metropolitans ; the C'-monfayes, let the ancient cuftomes be in force : It's anfwered 1. We finde that Council did conveen in the year. 32 5 .Now admit, that certain Cuftomes concerning Metropo- litans , as well as Bishops , were btought into the Ghurch about 165. years, before the Councel; which is the higheft period from whence they canbecal- ciilat, thefe cuftomes in this refpeft, might will therein Anfvvered. 153 therein be termed Antient , without the Ieaft contra- riety to my aflertion. 2. It's evident enough from many fuffrages , that as the primitive Epifcopaciea which fucceeded to Presbyterie, the Government firft inftitute by our Lord and his Apoftles, andexer- cifedinthe Chriftian Church, did only import the humane invention of a Prof-tafia , for Order ; So the cuftome of Metropolitans , in thefe times , did differ nothing from it, as may appear from the 33, Canon of thefe called Apoftolical already cited , wherein he is only termed Primus Gentis Epifcopus , and tyed to the advice of his Coepifcopi : In the next place , you tell us , that nothing can be alledged again ft yourEpif- copal powers but Some jew or disjointed places if fomc Authors, which at mofl Prove, that they judged not the origeri of Bi'Vops to b>. divine , and r.onefave Aerius , re- puts an Heretic!^ , did ever fpeal^ againJi the difference , betuixt Bishops and Presb ters : Sir, if you did not here acknowledge, almoftall thatldefire, Icouldeafily shew you , that not only the Scriptures of the New Teftament , and the agreeable practice of the Apoftl- es, and their Immediate fuccefTbrs are againft \ our Prelatick excrelcenr power \ but that even for feveral ages thereafter , while both Bishops and Metropoli- tans did exercifc their Proftafian , your Diocefan Prelat , having the fole power of Ordination aud ju- rifdi&ion , was unknown , yea exprefiy reprobate : but becuife the appendix whereunto I have already referred, and Smehymnus , do plainly make out this point, I shall not detain you: As for Atrius, it's true, he held that a Bishop and a Presbyter do not differ , and that Au^uftin cals this propri >m ejus dog. ma, his proper Opinion, and Epiphanius , dogma fieri* ofum etftolidum , a furious 2.nd foolifh opinion , and that both of them do ranck him among Hereticks ; but K j feing 154 The third Dialogue feing they alio accuie him of Amanifme, and withal doalfotaxe him for error in fome points which are clear truth, v$%. that it is not lawful to pray and offer for the dead , their cenfure is as little to be noticed , as his Teftimony ; fpecially femg many Learned men do plainly aflert , that not only Rkrom, but even Au- gujlin himfelf j Chrifojlom and many others of the h achers , were of the fame opinion with Aerius , as to the matter of this difference : but for Jerom you go about to alleviat his Teftimonye, w"j{. Idem ergoejl Presbyter qui Epifcopus. Therefore a Presbyter is one and the fame with a Biliop , (5'noverint Epifcopife magis con- fueiudine quaw difpojitiows dominie a veritate Presbvtcrii effc majores, &c. And let the Bilhops know that they are above Preebvters more through cuflome then any divine warrant. Becaufe he bimfelf was but a Presbyter. Pray Sir , who were they whom your men cite fo faft for Bishops? were not they themfelves Bishops , and yet the truth is , there were Bishops alfo at that time of his Opinion. 2» You fay that his fervent if not firie Spirit drives him along in every things to an excefs. Good Sir, where is now your veneration for Antiquity and the holy fathers i For u5 , feing we do not found on mans Authority, this your brusk character , diico- vering more of your partiality then of Jeroms infir- mity , doth not offend: Only this 1 mull fay, that whatever be his fervor in his other writtings ; yet I am fure that both in his Commentane upon Titus md in his EpifHe ad Evxgrium , he confirms his aflertion above fet down , with Scripture Arguments , moft calmly , folidly and unanfwerably. 3 . You alledge, that Notwithftanding that he -make tbeBifcop and Prcs- hyter to differ in degree only, and not in offi :e ■> and that by Ecclefiaflk^ and not Divine ^Aahority , yet he con- f effah that Presb am did not ordain , and that the origen ■ Anfwered. 155 of the exercijing power was in the dayes of the except a or di nut 'tone , Epifc>pus quod Presbyter non facit ; Hut as he is there pointing only atthecuftome, theninufe , fo, this doth nothing derogate from that equality, yea identitie ofpovwr, which heattributeth to both from Scripture : wh.it you mean by the origen of the exercijing power > &c. h not fo clear. It's true he arfirmeth that at ^Alexan- dria from Mark^ tne Evangelift to Heraclas , and Dio- nvfim Bishops , the Presbyters did al waves nam : one, chofen of themfelves , and placed in higher degree > Bishop • but what fays this more then that in all that time for orders fake , they had fucceilive Presidents attirit, it's like moveable, and thereafter fixed dur- ing life : And we have already both acknowledged , andregreted the grievous abufe, occalioned by that latter practice: You adde that he comparts, the Bi- fliops , Presbyters , a>id Deacons in the Church , \to the high Priefl , Priefls and Levitcs in the Ttmple : and fince there was at that time, from Ecciefiafack cuftomethen allowed (which according to his ufe > and as he ufeth to fpeakpromifcuouPiy , writing or Lent, he here indifferently termethan Apoftolick Tra- dition ) a ground of rcfemblance , why might he not ufe the limilitude, without ftretching it either to evert , what he had laid , or countenance your Pre- lacie ? Laftly you alledge that he fans , that it tr and in Jeroms dayes > not having much exceeded the limits of a fimple Pro- fiafia , was by him alio approved , as the remedy of diflention , fb , he holding it to be not of Divine dif- pofition , no doubt if he and thefe other holy men , were this day to fee the hundred pare of thefe fad , and fcarfull eflfecls , that it hath produced , nothing could be able to breake their aftonishment , at the furprizing fight of fuch prodigious confequences of this Myftery of iniquity 3 but forrow and Lamentation , together with deep regrete > that they did not better forfee , and more timoufly refift ,the rlrft tendencies and begin- nings of this evil : Now whether or not Antiquity be on your fide,andif our grounds from Scripture againft your Epifcopall Authority, be not much confirm- ed , both by lerom and the other patTages here handl- ed , I willingly fubmit it to all the lovers of truth : but left* you think that by the reprefentation I have made in the beginning of my anfwere to your ailed- geancefrom Antiquity, of the early andftrange rife and grouth of Epifcopacie , I do thereby derogate from that light and purity, which with you I acknow- ledge in thefe Primitive times , I muft note ■> firft > That pride as it was the firft fin and corrupter of Mans integrity , from which the felicities of Paradife could not exempt him ; So is it of all fins the moft inward , rooted > and fubtile , attending a man in all condi- tions , finding Matter in all occafions , and immixing itfelf even in our faireftand pureft aftions. 2, That the Difciples of our Lord , notwithftandingofhis own prefence , holyinftru&ion , and humble example were not free of the motions of this evil > the Hiilory Anfwered. 157 of the Gofpel doth plainly teftify. 3- I note that the V times of the Apoftles , the moil pure and powerfull that ever the Church enjoyed , were many wayes in- fefted with this plague, I mention not the conten- tions betuixt Paul and Barnabas , which no doubt fprung from this latent corruption ; but he who con- udcreth the great number ♦ and many wicked practic- es of falfe Apoftles , Hereticks and Schifmaticks, in thefedayesboaftingagainft , anddefpifing even Paul himfelf, with the affected Preheminence of Diotre- pbes , and the then begun working of the myftery of iniquity , toward the exalting of the Son of perdition, in place of denying , muft ot necefiity marveil , how this Devil of pride could in fo gracious and short! time , deftitute of all Earthly encouragements , fo greatly prevail , and plainly perceive , that this active Spirit, would not be wanting, to imbrace and im- prove all occafions and opportunities offered; 4, That as order did no doubt at firft in all meetings require a Prefident, whom I alfoeafily grant to have been, as any occafion did require , rather recommended by de- fert , no evil confequence being then apprehended , then prefented by a conftant and compleat Rotation ; So it is very probable , and confirmed by H/Vrowwfuf- frage, that contentions did firft both fixe the prefi- dencie ovproftajia , and exalt it to any notable emi- nencie ; but whether by way of remedy , or by way of victory , to the increafe of the Maladie > is indeed the molt obfervable points , and , as I apprehend , that whereupon we will divide : and therefore I note j ♦ That although the Authority of able and holy men at firft , advanced to a fixed Prefidencie , might then appeare, asinthefedayesofgreat fimplicity and hu- mility, ink felf very innocent , and in the event alfo effect uali to concord ; Yet without all queftion at beft it 158 The third Dialogue it was butanhumane invention , copied from the pa- tern of the manner of the then Civil Government of the Empire? to which our Lord exprefly commanded his Difciples not to conforme. 6. That feing affected preheminence and the contentions thence arifing , did clearly occafion the introducing of this Proftafia, though in many 3 yea moft places , the prevailing number of good men > might thereto advance worthy and deferving perfons , ftudying more the profpering of the Gofpel, and unity of the Church then adver- ting to the bad confequences, that thence might enfue$ Yet it is not only noft certain, that this promotion tvas that , where nnto thefe ftrivings did every where directly afpire \ but alfo moli probable , that even in the firft beginnings , many ambitious pretenders , wanting a juft oppofition , did carry their defign , and were preferred. 7. That by plain dealing I may fatisfy all pretenfes , I obferve 3 that al- beit power and Authority, unite in the Proftafia of one amongft many , may be thereby rendered more ftrong, andefTe&ual • Yet feing the benefits of this union , and advancement , doth only flow from the accidental worth , and ability of the perfon that hap- pens to be promoted , and that the order or inftitu- tionitfelf, deftituteof divine warrant , and promiie, and clearly occalloned by evil contention and intro- duced into the houfe of God by humane invention , could not at firft have any thing in it recommendable, and hath fince produced moft corrupt fruits ; Neither theexiftence of Many excellent and great men in this degree, nor the laudable, yea extraordinary advan- tages, that the Church hath received from them m theconcret , can now juftify , and maintain the Order itfelfin theabftract : If this arguing were good , able and well qualifyed men veiled with fuch a power , or placed Arffwered. 159 p!ac:d in fucha condiuon, have proven and mayprove notable inftruments of Good : therefore it is reafotv able and expedient , that fuch a conftant order should beere&ed, we might not only have Bishops , but moft of the Monaftick Orders of the Roman Church: We finde Peter with the lingular benerke of the Church > exercing a power of Life and Death , and that given him from above, and not affumed ; could therefore an order of Church-men , pretending to the like Authority , be-rationally thence maintained in the Church? Nowayes: Accidental advantages do not commend unwarranted inftitutions , much lefs can they juftle out our Lords exprefs conftitution: But it is he , the perfect orderer of his own houfe , who hath pofitively defined , and bleflcd its Officers , and their power, and not left the matter Arbitrarie, to the probable contrivances of apparent benefite , farre lefs eotheduTemblingpretenfes, ofmensLufts, and corrupt Intereft. 8. It is to be noted , that although the great meafure of Grace, given to the Primitive Church , and the hard and frequent perfections , wherewith it was exercifed , did for a time hinder that ftrange depravation and incredible eruption of wickednefs , vvhereunto the fetting up of the Ancient Proftafia , the rudiment of your Prelacie , did from its tirft beginnings , fecretly and covertly bend ; Yet this is moft evident , that fo foon as the Church of God obtained the countenance, and was favoured by the more fond in many things (fuch as excdlive Dotations and Grants of privileges) then prudently pious benevolence of Secular Princes , this Prelatick order , which in its deprcilion had been indeed ho- noured , with many shining lights and Glorious Mar- tyres , attaining then to its afcendent , did not only debauch the Lords Minifters , for the moft part unto idlenefs, i6o The third Dialogue idlenefs , avarice and luxurie j but continually climb up according to its proper Genius of Ambition , until the Devils defign in its rife , and progrefs , was fully difcovered , and confummate , in the revelation of the Son of perdition : 9. This being the rife , progrefs and product of Prelacie in the tirft Churches , as may be clearly gathered from the writtings of thefe times , how it was introduced in other Churches , thereafter gathered and brought in , may be found in their Hi- ftories : Only this is certain , that as in almoft no Church it can be shewed , to have been coevous with Chriftianity > and in all rhe weftern Churches where it obtained place , was ever a f prig of Romes Hierar- chie , propagate by her ambition and deceit > and the like practices ; So the Church of Scotland in fpecial , was in the beginning 5 and for fome centuries there- after} inftruSed and guided by Monks , without Bishops until Palladhts from P^ome , did fet up Pre- lacie among us 5 as many Authors witnefs ; Nay, we mayfindeit on Record, that even in the 816. year a Synod in England did prohibite the Scots any function in their Church , becaufe they gave no honour to Me- tropolitans and other Bishops. By thefe obfervations , having in fome fort deli- neate the myfterious and crooked windings , of this excrelcing Power, in its firft motions, and fetting forth : and very clearly and naturally traced its pro- greffions , and thence deduced that moft prodigious production of the Antichriftian Papacie3 as any con- siderate man may thereby eafily perceive , not only ho v it might , but how de fa&ok hath crept into the whole Church , without an Apofiolicall introduction , notwithstanding of all your contrarie insinuations , Co I am confident , that what ever other advantages , thefe primitive times had above our latter dayes \ yet our Anlwered. 161 our difcovery 5 made after fo fuii a revelation , com- pared co the obfeure appearances of this wickednefs > in the rirft ages of the Church , cannot be thereby rationally diiproved : and your fcurrile difparaging of the latter times of reformation, isthefagg ttiao fex- teen hundred years , doth with little leis f uccefs , plead for the Pope and Antichrift , then for your Anti- chriftian Prelacie. As for the reft of your difcourfe . wherein yoi: your N. C. that though the ancient Bijhops were hem? men » then cither Bijhops or Presbyters alive j Yet) in Presbyteries y fpef tally in the matter of Ordination, they were fine quibus non , ana what ever be the prtftnt ■ of the Epifcopall power ; Yet h is a rational and mofl neceffary thing , that the moreapproven and gifted, be pe~ culiarly incharged with the infpeBion oftheCicrye, an order of men needing mush to deregulate ', and feing a'i le things , and Pr. si? tery alfo > art liable to be abuf- edy the common maxime remains to he applied , re theabufe of Bi hops , but retaintheir ufe. Inanf hereto, I need not inlarge , he who knows Church Hiftory belt , will eafily grant , that as for the firft Centurie and an half, we have no veftige upon re- cord, of your Prclatick power; So when a&truTtq had place, their concurrence in Presbyteries , only for order , as being the Mod racors , a confede- ration ofthe fame exigence and effect , whether they be fixed , or unfixed , and not from any peculiar power, proper to them as a fupei ior order \ A thing fo certainly difowned by the primiti :c Church , that, even after the Bishops thought themfelves well ftated in their Prelacie , a;id weie beginning to contend amo;)^ themfelves , for the Papacie, bVer/m doth plainly deny them any fuch ; ve above Pref- byteis , and was not therefore com by anv: L ' How 102 i he third Dialogue How much more then doth this condemn that fole power , both of Ordination and Jurifdiftion , where- unto your Bishops do pretend. As for your alledged reafon , and necelllty of promoting the better gifted over the unruly Clcrgie » whatever applic arion it may have to that naughty Company of your infuflkient and profane Curats , or Conformity to the Court ; yea, the worlds prejudice againft our Lord Jefus, his Jvlinifters, and all his followers ; Yet thefe two things are moft evident, i. That as that lowly and minifte- rial Government , appointed by Chrift in his own houfe , admitting no fuperionty or inequality of power among Minifters , is not fnb/ected to , and alterable at the arbitriment of humane reafon ; fo , the advantage of Gifts, whereupon you would found it, dothfo little favour your conclufion , that the di- rect contrarie is recommended by our Lord , as its beft evidence and fruit , he that will be chief among you let him be your Servant ; and that not only as to the grace of humility, but in plain oppofition to that fupe- rior iVuthority exercifed in Secular Rule, whereof the imitation in this place , is exprefly prohibite to Go- ipel IYlinifters : but the ground of your miftake is > that Notwithftanding our Lord hath faid of himfelf and his Minifters, that one is your Mafter, and all you are Brethren and fellow-fervants , among whom an inequality of gifts , may well confift with an equality of condition ; Yet reliefs and moft fub- tile Ambition? for gratifying its evil luft, will, even in a plain oppoiltion commanded , alleagethe afTecla- tion , and not the thing it ftlf to be difcharged ; and inthelowlieft ftate of Service , devife fuperior and inferior degrees. The fecend thing is, that though I befarre fiom denying humane infirmities incident to Minifters , as well as others , and do heartily wish, that the of ences by them occadoned, may be alvvayes, as 'Anfwered. i6j as the mod hurtful to the Golpel, mod feriouHy pre- cautioned and regrcted j Yet J am fure , that, without regard to our Lords mod gracious gifting > and mo ft wife ordering of his Miniftcry for the feeding and ruling of his people , to affirnie that neverrheleiTe then ts?io crdir of men needs fo much to be regulated $ is a prefumptuous and vain imputation , againft Je- fusChrift, the Head and King of the Church, ar.d his Oeconomie : Hath our Lord taken fo great paines to Separate, Inftruct , San&ify , artdfehd forth Jvli- nifters, andpromifed them fofpecial a pretence and afiiftance , for the overfig ht and conduct of Belie . and darre any Ch;il\i:;n fay, that even the order it felt" ("for alas I grantthe men are but earthen veflcls) needs more then any other, the connivance of mans invention for its regulation? But let none that hc- noureth Jefus Chrilt , or remembreth the former Beautie, Order and Succefle of his Miniftrie and Courts amongft us , be offended ; this reflexion pro- ceeds from the fame Spirits that accufed bur great Matter, as a Rebell and Ufurper, and hisApoftlcs as the Troublers and Subverters of the World. As to your conduiion , when you have difprovedthe Di- vine warrant of PreSbytrie , and shewed both its oc- casion , rife, tendencie , and proper fruits to be only evil, as I have done in the matter or Prelacie , then you may cquiparat them in the point of a'oufe : but feing the abuie ofpresfcytrfe is only accidental , from humane infirmity , and that of ie,itsmoft native Genius and Product ; Nav, feing Presbytrieis indeed the right ufe of the Churches Government, and Prelacie its manifeft depravation , the maxim e wl you adduce, in its 1uft application , doth moft clearly fay, remove the abufe of Prelacie, and let the ufe of Presbyterie be retained. L 2 The i 64 The fourth DIALOGUE Anfwered. S IR, frncevouhave faid nothing that I have not to my felf ( and I hope to all rational and impartial men ) fatisfyingly anfvvered , and m /eing I can fay it in Gods fight , that in all the %**^ matters hitherto treated , I finde in my heart a ferious defire to pleafe him in all things ; and alio to comply with his Church , and obey the Laws of the Kingdom , in what I judge agreeable to his will, with as much diftruft of my ielf , and charity towards o- thers , as humane frailtie doth permit : In this perfwa- fion truely , and by your own verdict , confeientious, •without either noticing the pitiful shift of a blind con- fcience, which you make your N C pretend, or charging you wich that arrogance , whereupon you make him weakly to exclaime , I shall proceed to confider the grounds which in this place you lay down. You fay then , Private perfons have nothing to do with Government \ fubmiflion and not judging ts their part. I cannot ftand to diicuiie all the ambiguities that may be latent in this General ; but it is ftrange* i , That the Government of Gods houfe (for that is the point betwixt us) should be inftkuted by him, for the Edi- fication and Salvation of private perfons , and his own Glory , as you cannot deny ; and yet they to have nothing to do vvhh it. 2. You fay , SubmiJJion w thrir dmie , Anfwered. 165 dutie. And would you have it blind, and not rational, and conicientious .? 3. Our Lord hath defined the Government of his Church, and did efiiblish the fame among us , engaging us thereinto by a perpetual Covenant, is it then nothing of our concernment? But may wc breake thele facred tyes , and abandone our (elves to an implicite compliance, with every humane invention ? J grant that private perfons are neither, under a righteous conftitution, toufurpethe partoftheGovernours,- nor yet under a finful , un- lawfully to foliate , and endeavour an alteration : but as in the former cale , both Reafon and Religion , fpecially where an Oath hath interveened, ^otn ob- lige to maintenance, lb in th; latter, I am afTured that all a&ive owning and approving ( the thing where- unto we are preiTed ) beyond a providential! acquies- cence, is utterly finful: If you require ray reafons j there is none like your own , vi% . firfi , becaufe , I am perf.vaded that , what ever may be the compara- tive innocencie ofan erring, but well-meaning opi* nion -, Yet of every Soul, who hathfeen the Glorious light and work of God in the Lands , and engaged himfelf thereto by folemn Covenant , and now of late, hath broken thefe bonds » and concurred to change Chrifts pure Ordinances , and fet up , eftabiish or countenance Prdacie , and its wicked Hkrarchit , God will furely either in this life , as we have already feen , in the convictions of many , or in the lair, and great Judgement , openly require it. 2. Becaufe not only perjury , manifeftly ingredient in the active fub- million and compliance which you exaft , hath a plain and direct tendencie to the blotting of the Soul > but as the Gofpei and all its Ordinances , are defigned to purify the heart ; So , this of Government, fo clear- ly therein appointed ; and of fo neeelTaire and effectual L 3 in- 166 The fourth Dialogue influence} for the conferving of truth, edifying of the body of Chrift , and perfecting of the Sainq? doth undeniably contribute to the fame end : And by thele two eafie rules it is whereby I heartily wish ? that both you and I ? and all men may examine our Con- sciences. In the next place you tell your N. C. Th.it we have no rational! ground to thinly you wrong , in Matters of Religion : do you then think that obedience to the Lords Command, againftfwearing falfely? and ad- hering to > a;:d owning the Kingdom , and Ordinan- ces of Jeiiis Chrift , are.no Matters of Religion t or have you already anfwered the full and juft account , that i have given of our differences 2 But , fuppoiing there may be error on your fide , you adde, that unlep the error be -■, mater importance, then the Communion or SamtJts ? it ought not to untythe bond of the unity of the CxtboliciiChurcb. This is thu rule which you gave us before , Hi your firft Dialogue ? and therefore I shall fay little to it? only if your meaning be > that except the conjunction with the erring partie , be of greater prejudice ? then feparation upon that account} we ought not to unty the unitie of the Church, I wil- lingly aflcnt ; but if there be any other latent fenfe in your ftrange weighing the import of error? with an article of Faith, things quite oppofite , without all communication of degrees ; when you explain your felfj 1 shall confident. To this you fubjoin many thing- of. Pauls conforming both to Jews and Gentiles, ii matters of greater fcruple, then what we contend about , Srnd zhznee conclude , That if Paul did fo free- ly and out of Charity , then are we much more bound , jro:n whom the du:ic oj obedience to Law doth alfo t . 7 it : Now, becaufe in this place , it is , that you not oniyabufePrfw/j practice? but go about to intri- cate I Anfvvered. 167 cate and deftroy? by a new knack of pitiful Court Sophiftry, the privilege ofChriftian liberty , I shall therefore endeavour briefly to give you a diftinft and adequat return. And I fay chat Paul's conformity dothno waves enforce the compliance required of us$ becaufe that all we finde in the Apoflle , is a free and f>rudent accommodation ofhimfelf, in things whol- yexternall and indifferent) for the gaining of fuch, with whom he converfed j whereas the compliance demanded of us , is plainly to owne and approve unwar- ranted , wicked and accurfed Prclacie , and its abo- minations : which , both by the Command, and Oath of God> we are bound to extirpate : hPaul, notwith- ftanding of the accomplishment of the Mofaick dif- penfation , at firft inftitute by the Lord , and not then exprefly antiquat, did neverthelefle continue fome of its obfervances , that by shewing a refpect to 5 and not defpifing of thefe shadows, though already eva- nished , he might the better convince the Jews ? of the fulfilling or what they prefigured ; can any man thence inferre , that therefore we ought not only to relinquish the true Ordinances ofChrilt , but acknow- ledge the inventions of men , fudi as Prclacie , and its vain Ceremonies, although the famine be found con- traire both to the word of God , and power of God- linefs , and therefore are by us folemni y abjured. As {or Pauls freedom of converfe toward the Gentiles > admitting that there appeares a feeming excefs in it-, obnoxious to mifconfti u&ion : yet, was it not in meat and drink only < And is not its principall defign of afferting, in thefe things , fuch an abfolute liberty , as might warrant the deed in it felf, notwithstanding the poilibility of fome mens miftakes , wholly oppo- fite to your purpofe i fo that, without queftion , the outmoft advantage you can draw from this matter , L 4 is> 1 63 The fourth Dialogue is , that wc have the liberty to do materially many of thefe external! things , by you enjoined » without homologating your intention in the impofing, which> whether you would accept of, or account confident with fincere dealing, I leave to your felf to judge? But 'tis like your meaning is,that all the things where- unto wearcprclTed, palling from our Covenant, re- linquishing oi our lent and iealed Minifters , owning and adiveilibmitting to abjured Prelats, and the like, are in themfelves things wholly externall , inrignifi# cant , and nothing ; wherein we may as lawlully eoinplement Authority , bv our obedience , as Paul> by a free exercife of his liberty , in washing , shavings, circumtifing , eating, and drinking did complacent- ly infinuat upon jews , and Gentiles : And ii in thefe there be any parity , let the meaneft capacity difcerne 2. Although the things required of us , were indeed in themfelves wholly indifferent $ Yet we cannot be urged with Pauls conforming? , becaufethe reafon and defign of Pauls practice, being diametrally repug- nant; to yours , inftead of confirming, plainly fub verts the compliance by you demanded : Paul's practice, Row from liberty, and the reafon and warrant of that , was , became that Chrifi hath made m free , and to liberty , blotting out the hand-wrhting of • rdinances that was againjt w : dare you then, or mortal! elfe, ciTerto writeand hxe another , and in inrangle us with a yoke of bondage, andfub- je&e us to, or judge us concerning Ordinances , after the Commandments and Doctrines of men ? What rcafonin* can be more abfurd then that of yours? Paul did thefe things freely, therefore you are bound to obedience : Do contraries that remove, eftablish on? another t I grant that, if in charity to our equals, even Aliens , we are bound :o a compieaianc and gain- ing Anfwered. 169 ing a&ing or forbearance , in things indifferent > and in our power , much more doth the fame charity bind us, to the like compliance toward our Superiors; but by what conference can you extend this obliga- tion of charity , to a plain furrender or our Liberty; and turn the praile or a free benevolent exercife, unto a bondage of obedience , v< herefrom our Lord hath fo clearly liberat us, as to all thefe externals , which you to much plead for t But as to this point, you cell your N. C. That he hwravs great Jimplicitie ; becauft forfooth Paul did not refufe compliance by reafon that the things were commanded bv Authority : But becauft certain falfi Brethren came io fpy out bis liberty -, to whom he gave place by fubje&ion, no t.ot ,or an hour . Really, bir , your N. C. mutt, indeed be very fim- ple, that he could indure fuch impofing;. You lay, Yaul did riot re fit fe compliance, by reafon that the Cere- monies were, commanded , and yet his own words by you cited, fay plainly', that though at other times , in the free and edifying exercife ot his liberty, he hath in charity ceded to the weaker ; Yet, to give place by fubiettion ( mark it ) the correlat and homologa- tion of' command , he would not , r.o not for an hour, Is not then to repeat only your difcourle, to redargue it? I might tell you further, that by the context > it is evident , that the Apoftlc fpeaks in this place , of thefe that would have brought Gentiles under the Law otMofes, and the oblervance of the Jewish ceremonies, who certainly did pretend Divine Authority for theirDoftrine : Andtherefore> and for this only reafon, were in the vindication of Chriftian liberty oppofed by Paul , and Barnabas : but let us hear what Stilling' fleet hath put in your Mouth as to this Matter ; You fay then that , 1/ any require of us compliance > as if it were necefiarie 0j it felf ', we L 5 have 170 The fourth Dialogue have reafon to ftand faft in the liberty wherewith Chrifl hath made us free. But it is unfufferabk pecvijlmefs , if the Magiflrat enjoin a thing 5 declaring it free in it felf> and only necefiary becaufe commanded > upon that /core to refufe obedience. To this it isanfwered I. That it is •unfufferable boldnefs for you , to alledge a peevishnefs in a praftice,fo exa&Iy parallel to that of the Apoftles, who, as they underftood the liberty wherewith Chrift had made them free , to confift in that reall relief and freedome granted to them from the yoke and burden of the Jewish ceremonies \ fo , they do exhort belie- vers to ftand faft to it , which certainly imports a non- fubmiilion , and refitting to the imposition , either of thefe antiquat Jewish obfervations , or any other of Mans invention, feing that thefe are indeed contrarie , and not only an aftn&ednefs 3 in opinion -> unto the liberty purchafed : 'Tis true, the falfe Apoftles prefled their obfervance from divine Authority ; but feing the Chriftians then did except, upon the liberty which Chrift hath obtained, and thereby proclaimed to us an exemption even from the old Divine Law of Ordi- nances , is not the fame much more forcible againft Mens ufurpadon of an unwarranted tyrrany ; or think you , that our Lord hath only freed us from Mofes irru pofitions , that we might fall into the hands of more fevere Task-mailers, who not only take upon them to appoint , without Gods warrant into the houfe and matters of God , and introduce will-worship , which he abhor res $ but after they have urged our obedience > as only Chilly and out of refpeft to Authority, and not from Confcience , do then tell us , that by a gene- ral 1 and fupervenient Law of God , their ftatutes be- come to reach even the Confcience alfo Z But 2. you fay , if the Magi fir at declare the thing to he free in it fdf > and only necefiary bscaufe commanded > Cbriflian liberty ts not Anfwered. 171 tiot thereby Ufjencd. Tis anfwered , is not Chriftian libercy alwayes oppofed to the Jewish bondage £ Now, Sir, 1 demand v\ herein did this bondage couiilt, was it in the Authority only , v\ hereby theie ordi- nances were enjoined , and which did indeed imme- diatly reach the Confcience > and not rather in the obligation to that burthenlome practice, v\ hich thence did enlue i And certainly, you, and all men, muft grant the latter* feing the lpeciality or' Divine Au- thority? is lb iar from rendering an impofition, other- wayes light, to betburthenlbme ; that without quef- tion , as ics precepts are the perfect law of liberty -3 So the clearnefle of its warrant , is the greattft relief oi Confcience ; Nay, this is a truth io certain , and appofite toourprefent pur pofe, that I am lure you are convinced , that if the Prelats could produce Divine commands for their injunctions, theie would quickly fatiffy all ourfcruples, and make Non-coniormiits , the 1110ft conformable of the Nation. Give over then your empty quibling , in telling us , that you exaft not our compliance , as neceiTaire in it felf by divine prefcript, lor though I could shew, how that no: withstanding you pretend not to *ny immediate divine warrant, for your impoiings •, younotthelefs alleage that Divine Authority, whence Magifiracy doth defcend, for aftriding our obedience ; Yet this is lb far from being our exception , that plainly on thecon- traire, your ceremonies commanded in the Matters of God, againft that liberty pnrchafed unto us> are not in themfel ves , or in any other refpeft , fo much a burthen , as for lack of that very lame authority, whereof you do moft inadvertently pretend , that the want should be our loiution. JBuc 3. what can be more manifeft, then that, as the hardship of the Jewish Pedagogic, did confift in the multitude of their Ce- remo- 172 The fourth Dialogue remonies , and Obfervances , wherowto they were tyed in practice , and neither in the obligation of Di- vine Authority, whereby they became bound, nor yet in their opinion of things , which , notwithstand- ing of their being injoined by the Lord , they knew to be in themfelves free , and were not in the leaft , by this liberty of opinion , delivered from the rigour of that Pedagogie , fo the releafement , which our Lord hath purchaied , confifts in freeing us from that yoke, and burthen , which the Jews were not able to bear , and in liberating us from the Law of Ordinances , and the rudiments of the world * Pray Sir , is this only to change the opinion of things, and leave us as much obnoxious, to be fubjefted in obedience as ever the Jews were ? who can admit it? If you be ftill unclear, anfvvere this demand with your Cdf in fobriety : If the falfe Brethren had Hud to the Chriftians of old , we acknowledge with you, that the Jewish difpen- fation is accomplished ; but fince the Lord hath not exprefsly difcharged the continuance of its obferva- tions , and they are but things external , and of them- felves free, let us in the recognizance of his Authority, or for peace fake, ftiJlbe lubjeft in a conformable obedience : would not the Apoftle have returned the fame anfvvere? It is the Lord who hath made us free, let us not again be brought unto bondage : the fun of righteoufnefs is arifen,and hath obfcuredallthe former shadowing lights , we have no need either of thefe , or the more pitiful tapers of mens blind invention : And here I muft tell you by the way , that as I have drawn ont my anfvvere on purpofe , to meet with your Ognificant rites introduced in Gods fervice ; So , as to the iirft part of it , anent the liberty purchafed to us by Chrift , I further adde , that iris a groundlefs concek , to think that the only reafon of abolishing the Anfwered. 173 the Jewish ceremonies , was , becaufe they did pre- figure our Lords coming , icing it is moft certain, that although the whole complexly, was indeed a Peda- gogie to lead unto him > and make that People to wait and long for his redemption • Yet a great many of them did not properly prefigure , fuch as the ob- fervation of dayes , diftinction of meats , and the like> to which no Inch relative fignirication can be attri- bute, without a groundlefs and violent ftraining : and therefore, as I giant, that many of thefe rites, as being only shadows of the good things to come , did evanish upon their appearance, and confequently could not have been kept up, without a tacitehint, that the things thereby typifyed were ftill expected ; Yet 1 am very affined , that as to a great part of thefe Mo- faick Ordinances, our Lord did remove them, as a yoke and burthen , by the gracious conceHion of that Liberty , wherewith he made us free , and that to bring back that fervitude > or to introduce thelikc, is plainly to bring us back again to the rudiments of the world , from which we are dead with Chrift , to dif- own the liberty which he hathpurchafed , and con- fequently , and as plainly as in the former cafe, to deny that our deliverer is come. 4. Having shewed that the liberty of thinking the things to t>e lree ia themfelves, the practice nevcrthcleft being ftrictly injoined, is not Chriftian liberty , an.i that itisirra. tional toaffirme, that an obfervance commanded by the Law of God , becomes on this account more bur- thenfome, then it mans authority onlv did make it binding : And feing on the other hand I eafily grant> that in things in themfelves free , and in our power, no reafon of Religion or Righteoufnefs gainftanding , it were peevishneis to decline the requeftof an Equal, let be the command of a Superior : I shall here shortly declare 1 74 The fourth Dialogue declare wherein it is that Chriftian liberty ftands > and confequently what the injury is ofyour invafion: As then Chriftian liberty , is neither a licentioufnefs to fin againft God , nor to rebel againft the Powers that are over us; fo I plainly underftand it , to be that free- dome of ferving God in Spirit and in truth , where- unto our Lord Jefus , by releeving us of all outward obfervances , either as media in our worship , or for themfelves requisite to the acceptation of our fervice, other then he himfelf hath exprefsly appointed , hath redeemed , and reftored his Church. That the cir- cumftances of time, place &c. and their due regulation for Dccencie , and Order, are not here rejected , the quality , for themfdves , that is , for fome refpeft , by fpecial command , peculiarly to them appropriat , iufficiently holds out j it being very certain , that, under this consideration , the matters of Decencie , whereof both the conveniencie and ufe flows only From the common exigence of all humane actions , do not fall : And that this is the true notion of Chriftian liberty, the Scriptures whence J take it, and wherein it is fo clearly diftinguished, from the Jewish bon- dage, there alfo deicribed , John 4.. Zi. Gal.i,.^ and 5. Col. 2. are fo plain, that nothing can be added. Only I obferve , that becaufe by this liberty , we are delivered from thefe performances , whereunto the exercife of Religion , requiring, in every aft of wor- ship or fervice toward God, the Faith and Confcience of a Divine prefcript , without which ir is impoilible to pleafe him , was formerly by Mofes Law aftri&ed: Therefore it is indeed and is rightly termed , liberty of Confcience , which while you and others do con- ceive, to be nothing elfe then a freedom to think things to be free in themfelves that are not command- ed by the Lord , you do not only grofsly miftake it , as Anfwered. 175 as diftinguished from the Jewish fervitude ; but open a door to humane luft, and invention, to incumber and deprave the whole body of Religion , and the worship of God , with whatfomever fopperies they pleafe to devife : fcing that, in your opinion ,*it is im- pofllble > that Chriftian liberty of Confcience , can be thereby prejudged. Now , to prove that your ex- actions are high impingements upon this frcedome , I need not mention thefe compliances , which you crave, and are in effect directly oppoflte to the will of God; but even your other ceremonies, all added as in and by themfelves fignificant, to the worship andferviceofGod , without the warrant either of his word , or of the common exigence of all performan- ces, and fo thereby made Religious in their ufe, and objeft $ and therefore certainly belonging to Con- fcience , needeth no other argument to evince it , then the fubfumption of acondefcendence. Having thttt in fome meafure cleared what I propofed , left you or any other should account thefe things , to be matters ofmeevedoubtfull difputations , I nruft adde, that as it hath alwayes been obfei ved , that the greateft urgers of conformity in the externalls of humane invention , have been very little, if at all , ferious , in the life and fubftantials of Religion ; fo the great prejudice thence enfuing , to the power and practice of Godli- nefs, partly by reafon of theimpofers evill Iuftsand ends , partly by reafon of that (pint of delufion , to which they are given up , and partly by reafon of the vanity of the things impofed , and the Lords abhor- rence of them , doth both difcover that Myfterie of Hypocrifie, and Wickcdnefs, which fecretly worker h under thefe vain formes , and should ever render them meft odious , to all the lovers of truth and holinefs. I might here further zddc , that 3s your impofnions arc 176 The fourth bialogue are invafive of Chriftian liberty, injurious to Con- fcience , and corruptive of the pure and acceptable worship of God , and confequently fuch, as no power on Eartth can lawfully command them, or we therein obey j fo, were it but for the offence that may thence redound, to the Mumbling of the weak, and harden- ing of the impofers , to proceed from fmall begin- nings to the groffeft mixtures , a'l confcientious Men may very juftly be therefrom deterred : but to this I shall fpeak at greater length. 5. Having shewed that PauVs Clniluan civility , doth make nothing for your impofed conformity , and that to turne the free exercife of a charitable compliance , unto a yoke of bondage, is aperverfion intolerable, I shall fummc up the whole matter with this brief reflection , v&fa that admitting the things required of us , were only fuch externals and nothings as you would groundlefsly perfwade , and that our forbearance had , in it, more of weaknefs then found reafon ; yet the free Spirit of Chriftianity , which youalleage , and Paul defcribeth ~Rom. r4- is, fo fare from urging us to yourdefired compliance ; that I am very confident to afHrme, that if the fevered Non-conformift, had had the rule to dilate (pardon the fuppofition , bleiTed be the Dicta- tor ) he could not more manifeftly and directly have condemned your rigid exactions in thir matters , then the Apoftle doth in this place : I need not iniift upon particulars, the whole chapter is moftexpreflej Let not him that eateth ( and you think all the points of the controverted conformity of no greater moment) defpife him that eateth not. How do you then vex them with hard Laws , and grievous pains , more then you do heynous Malefactors : Who art thou that judgest another mans fervant ? Is a demand which one day will concerne Kings and Rulers , more then anv of their Subjefts : Anfwered. 17^ Subjects: Why do tiny then judge ? Why do they fit 4% nought their brethren? for all fli« lift and (and that on even ground) before the judgement feat oj Chriji : Let w not therefore judge one another , but let us judge this rather , that no man pit a j}u>nbli>ig-blockj or an occafion to fall in hit brothers way : "You afliire u , and feem per- /waded, that the things preiled are of themfelves noth- ing ; but to him that ejieemeth them unlawjull, to him they are unlawfull , and he that doubteih w damned if he do, becaufe he doth not tf faith \ How then canyon require this conformity t and of how different a tem- per , was the free and charitable Spirit of the Apoftle, who not only indulgeth the weak Non-confoimift j but becometh fuch himfelt to evite his offence i If thy brother be grieved with thy meat ( or with any of the matters now in debate, for you make no difference) now walks ft thou ( ipoken in my opinion to the Prince as well as Peafant) not according to charity , deflroy not him with thy meat ( or your acknowledged humane in- ventions ) for whom Chrift dyed : Say not that the things in controverfie being concluded by Law , are no more free , or in the condition of the things here mentioned • for 5 if not only judging and defpifing the Forbearer be here forbidden \ but even the contraire practice, when to him offenfive, how much more muft the defigned framing ? and [trick executing of Laws , for no other vitible end , then the violenting of fcruplers, and rack- ing of their Confciences , ( acknowledged.by your felf for the widefl ftep to Atheifm that can be made ) be in this Scripture condemned1: If you urge, that to carry this indulgence fo hfgh,is to fruftrateallhumaneLaws, feing the perfon unwilling to obey , may alwayes pre- tend , from Confcience , the privilege of forbearance* And as defacio you reafon 3 Any offender may decline J)ifcifline - and fay that the thing being indifferent , by 1 78 The fourth Dialogue command it becomes neeejfary , and (6 a burthen of Con- ference. Tis anfrvered, rhac as the burthen of Con- ference , doth not ftand rn a neceility , by Divine precept, of the things impofed, otherwayes the Lords commandments, that arc certainly moft eafie, should thence become moft grievous ; but > in effect , in a forced obligation to practice , in things wherein Confcience, requiring the Lords warrant in order to his acceptation , cannot at all rinde it fo ; the liberty and privilege here fpoken to , is only in order to Con- fcience, vtTf. That Chriftians ought not to prefs , or judge one another in theperformance , or forbearance of things in themfelves indifferent , as acceptable and weli-pleaftng to God , without his warrant : and therefore the force and effect of humane Laws, order- ing and commanding things in order to the Politick ends of Government , and, i.nfofarre, by the Lord commanded to be obeyed , are not by this Do&iine in the leaft demurred: Now that your Ceremonies and other impositions, being all relative to the fervice and worship of God , wherein as every thing is to be obfeived, with the faith of the Lords acceptation, fo nothing can be acceptable without his warrant , are not of the nature of things , as objected to civill com- mands ,, but plainly iuch , wherein Paul pleads for liberty, is manifeft: Nay, you your felf know fo well, that the very things fcrupled at by us , asen- joyned toward a religious obfervance, would be readi- ly complied with upon any other reafonable occafion; and that thoufands , who deteft the Surplice , would chearfulIyengadgeinaCamifado, for their Prince's fervice, that I add nothing: If you fay, that the things in debate , though commanded for religious ufes , are never the lefs emjoyned not as acceptable to God and under this foi rnality 5 but ire only neceifa- Anfwered. 179 ry becaufe commanded ; You bewray ", not o' ly a finfulgaudielicentioufnefs, of doing things for, and in the noufe of the God of Heaven , not commanded by the God of Heaven ; wherein even Heathens , let be Chriftians, have been tender ; but cxpofe the pu- rity and fimplicity of Religion , to^all the corruptions of mans vain imagination : As to what you adde anent the pretext , which this liberty may give to offenders, to decline D'fciplim , it is yet Iefs to the purpofc , in as much as fubmiifion to Discipline, doth in effeel: flow from the Lords Authority, whereby it becomes neceflary , and Mens part therein is only a naked mi- nifterial application. Laftly if you object , that pub- lick Peace and Order require your conforming obe- dience; Your opinion a, :d method in this point, is much different from the Apoftles , he makes it his great argument, not only for not judging and centr- ing Non-conformifts; but alio, in the cafe of offence, for complying with them in their forbearance, That we ougfo to follow the things which maks for peace , ar.d wherewith one m ly edijie another : But you and your partie , for all the noife you make for publick Peace » before you tolerat a Non-conforming in the greateit indifferencies , and ho wfoever tender and innocuous j will fooner both deprive your Brethren of Peace, and for your xdin trifles deftroy the toor\ of God : whereas though ynu had faith in thefe thing! ; vet ybft ought to have it to vourfelves before God : But; Sir , it is already too manifeft, that as in praft ice you know not the way of Peace , fo , in this difcourfe, bypreffing a firicrfc obedience from the free Spirit of Chriftian liberty, which you fcem to commend , you palpably con- demn \nur fl ' in that which yon appear to allow. Having thus fane , in thepurfute of your reafon- ings , digieffed, in the explanation of true Chriftian M Z U- iso The fourth Dialogue Liberty \ becaufe of its after uie , m the perufai of your remaining purpofes , I shall notitick in the con- {idering of what you make your N. C. add , That we forbear the things pnjfcd ? for avoiding the fcandal of others: I have already told you? that the realonsof our forbearance have no lefs then the indifpenfable motive of the will and Oath of God; Yea> fuppofe the things required were meere externals, and indiffe- rent , as they are not ; yet I have fo clearly proven that your abridging of our Chnftian liberty therein , by vertue of your commands , is in it felf repugnant to the Apoftles Doctrine? and in its effe&s perni- cious , that your requiring to make the reftraint of Authority , abufed to thefe impofitions , the warrant of Practice to the forcing of Conference, and the offending of a Chnftian Brother 5 is a Sophifme? no better , then if the hardie pra&ifer, or proud impofer , who is exprefsly commanded in Chriftian tendernefs to regard his Brothers offence , should by a vain pre- tending of his own offence 5 taken from the others indulged forbearance , or recufancie , thereby turne the Argument, and elude the exhortation ? to the very fcorne of Scripture : That which I rather ob- ferve ? is , that feing that to give Scandal is not ill de- fined by you , to be zfretchi)^ of our liberty topraBice, to the drawing of others to the like ( or grieving or mak- ing them weak ) who have not the farm clearness, why do you not begin your application at Prelats, Who having n\ ft ftreatchcd their practice , to the enfnaring, do alio rrame unjuft decrees to the forcing of iuch who have no clearnefs to conform i And on the other hand •> ought you not to indulge fuch , who only de- dre to refuge their Confcience , in the Sanctuary of an allowed forbearance? But thefe are the men> w horn having firft fmfully fpoikd of liberty , you fcornfully abufe? Anfwered. 181 abufe j by telling they may now a& , without regard to Scandal , (ince you do permit them no liberty to the contraire : But I haften to your more clols exami- nation of the matter of Conformity. And firji you ask , ttfbv do not our Miniflers join with your Courts for Church- di fa pline? it's anfwered, it were tedious to examine the follies of you , and your N.C in this point; we join not in your Courts, becaufe they are not the Courts of Jefus Chrift ; but of the King, and Prelates : If this you deny read the Ab\ Par i. 1661 Seff.i. Concerning Religion and Church- Government , the proclamation of Councel there- after, difcharging all Presbytriesuntill Authorized by the Bishops , and the Act Par. tod. Seff.i. For the reftitution of Bishops , where , as you will finde that Presbytnes were made Precarious \ as to their conti- nuance ( not as to their right, which is indeed Divine) by the tirft Act , and then [imfiicmr dilcharged , and broken up by the Proclamation ; fo that which re- turnes. in their place, by the laft Act and what cnfued, is not the former Presbyteries , but only the Exercifes of the Brethren , having both their regulation and au- thority from the Bishops, who have all their Church- power and Junfdiction in a dependance upon , and fub- ordination unto the foveraigu power of the Kjng as Su- pream. So that the Ki tigs Authority and Prerogative Royal , is plainly the proper fountain , and laft reforc of all the power and junfdiction to be found, either in your Church , or its iMeetings : Nay further , this is fo certain , that as his Maicitv doth not fo much as pretend a Commiflion from Jefus Chrift , as the an- ointed King of his Church , for this effect ( which yet the Pope , in his moft wicked ufurpation , did al- vvayes Judge necefTary ) fo, if it be Treafon , as it is dift.fejf. of the fame Parliament, aft. $. to derogat M 3 from i%% The fourth Dialogue from the prerogative of the Imperial Crown of this Realm , and it abiblute Supremacie in Ecclefiafticks* incapable either of fuperior or conjunct , do thereto by the late Aft of Supremacie appertain , certainly to make our Lord fo much as a sharer with the King , in this matter, would fall under the compafie of this crime : However, not to rake into this abyfse of wickednefs, that Aft of Supremacie, giving to the Km-g , over all Perions , Meetings , and in all Caufes of the Church , all the power , that Chrift as head of the Church , in thefe thmgs hath or can acclame , (a piece or fuch defperat folly , that I am afifured 5 that as m that fnteth in the Heaven doth laugh , fo shall he one day have all its contrivers , and abettors in dirifion^ in this I am very pofitive , that according to the pre- lent legall eftablishmeut made in thefe matters, to derive the power of your Courts from, or conneft: the fame with, the power and headship of our Lord Jefus, is utterly impoffible. That we then, who as tvlinifters of the Gofpel > do take upon us , and exer- cife no power , fave that which is our Lords, can- not join and partake with your Meetings, your felf may judge. But you fay , That all that is Divine in Difcipline , is> that fcandalons perfons be noted , and feparated from worfhip ; but how this [liaU be admiwflted , can be no matter of Religion , or of the concernment of Souls > pvovidhighbe done : 'Tis anfwered ■> to argue thus , all that is Divine m Preaching , is that the truth of the Gofpel be declared : but how this shall be performed can be no matter of Religion, or of the concernment of Souls, providing it be done, would it not be falfc and weak reafoning. 2. As your Proiidingit be done vify rightly , is zfaivo , whereby a man may as pertinent- ly argue zgainftall means vvhatibmever , which cer- tainly Anfvvered. i8* tainly are nothing ufeful > providing the end for which they are appointed be rightly done , lb this quality hath iuch an exigence even or theie midfes > which you fuppofetobe of no import, that ir plainly fubverts your Argument : But 3. Yourpofition , tlu.t all that is Divine in Discipline 3 n •> that fcandalow perfons be noted , ere. Is falfe, in as much as this is no more clearly to be found in Scripture , then the Perfons and Otricers therewith incharged , are evidently thereby ordained , yea this matter is lb certain , that there is fcarce one place to be leen in Scripture , for the war- rant of Difciplme , which doth not with the fame evidence, hold out the perfons intruded with its ad- mimftration ; And I will give unto thee the kevesoftbe Kingdom of heaven: Whofejins foiver ye' remit thev are remitted unto them : Feed) Over- fee, F^de the flocl^, are Commilfions fo full , ordaining the perfons , as well as defigning their work , that I can hardly impute the laxenefs of your reafoning , to your overiight. In the next place (tor as foryour quibling with your N.C. anent the foolish anfwere which you put in his mouth it is altogether frivolous as shall be shewed in your 7. Dm/.) you urge, That ■> fehig that Presb} tries- do by Divine right acclaime a power 0/ jurifdiEiion > they wight to meet in theft Courts , let the Law call it what it will, rjenasi; the Kjngfcould abrogate ail Laws (or the tvorfrip of God, and declare, that all that afitmble to wor- fl'.ip God , frail be underftood toworfrip Mahomet , and thereupon command all to mttt ', though we meet not on that ground , yet vo.v hope we would (irU meet to worftip God, however it be interpret: 'Tis anfvvered, If rhe jurifdi&ion competent toPresbyteries by Divine right were in thefe Courts , your Argument might have fome weight ; but feing they are not the former Pres- byteries , but new Courts let up , as 1 have already M 4 dc- 184 The fourth Dialogue declared , no more deriving power from Jefus Chrift, then your late High-commiifion , how can you think in reafon, that eirher the right and power of Pref- byters, or his Majefties call, should oblige Mini- sters to come to the one more then the other : For my part, as I efteem it a lefs fin upon the Kings call to come to a Court of his own erecting, thentoabufe Chrifts warrant to the eftablishing of a Court , as his, which by its inftitution manifeftly difowns him \ So, I should fooner refolve , upon the Kings command Co meet in the High-Commifiion , then , by coming from the motive of our Lords warrant , acknowledge your Exercifes of the Brethren for his Courts , which are fo palpably fetled upon the balls of another Au- thority ; As for your Similitude, not to infill upon fuchclaudicant Arguments, it is like to the legs of the lame which are not equall , but make it ftraight , thus , the King diflblves all Chriftian Churches , and ere&s Mahometan Mofches , charging all to repaire thereto worship, and declaring that he will account their fo doing , a teftimony of their compliance with the change by him made: Now it one should ftand tip , and for the perfwading of juft recufants, fay, that they may fafely go there , and worship God, without either owning of Mahomet , or regarding the conftruc- tion may be made of it : Pray, Sir , how would you Wnderftand it t And what ever you , or any reason- able man think should be the practice of Chriftians in this cafe , I am content the N. C. be thereby judged: I confefTe the termes of the Similitude are hard ; But remember they are of your own choofing, and my work is only to make them juft ; to conclude there- fore , it is not Mens interpretation or mif-interpreta- tion (although in many cafes thefe homologations , Whereby either Enemies may be hardened , or friends ftum- Anfwcred. UjT {tumbled , require alio a very weighty confide, a 101 .) that we regard in this matter; but tuercall ltate^f things , whereby as ChnftVs power is ejected roi th of yourCourts ; So the Divine junidjctionot Picsby- ters cannot poilibly therein have place : To this vcu lubjoin that fuppofe Epifcopacie were Tyrannic , aid ;.'/- (hops were T) ratines in the Church \ Why cu ht you not o Jubmit to them , as well as vow did to the late T r inftes in theState ? ltisaniwered x it I did think the e were any Emphajis , more then the itrainof your difcou was the firft , if not the only Mini* fter in Scotland , that took the Tender, and thereby, defertinghis Fellow-prifoners , procured his own li- berty : Nor how the late introdu&orsoi Epifcoracie, were moft or many of them fuchas by fubferivingthe Tender , abjuring the King , and the like compliances, had wholly deboshed their Confciencc s unto the per- fidious re-eftablishing of your abjuredPrelacie: vhere. as the tenacious honefty ofthefaithfullofthe Land, was both then, and is now? accounted their bigot- rie and folly. But to the purpofe. 1. If Bishops had only been intruded upon Presbytries as thevwerein former times > it is not queftioned , but Faithfull Pref- byters, not Outed of their polTeflion founded on Di- vine right , might have continued the fame with a due Teftimony , and oppofition againft unlawfull ufurpations , conforme to the old practice of Gods Servants among us in the like cafe; but feing in the late revolution , not only Presbytries were broken , M 5 ' and iS6 The fourth^ Dialogue anddifcontinowed , but the very foundations razed, 2 new foundation of the Kings Supremacie laid , and a new fuperftru&ure thereon built , Our compliance now , as you require it, would not be an act of Sub- miffion , but a plain partaking in this wickednefs. Z- The cafe of mens ufurpation in the State is fo vaftly different from that of your ufurpations in the Church, that it greatly alters the latitude of thefe fubmirTions , which you go about to equiparat, for though, in Civils, theafpiring and ufurpation or wicked men> be ahainous tranigreil'on , before God \ Yet, fuch is the nature , and condition of the Kingdoms of the Earth , in themftlves mutable , and at the difpofalof the molt high , who ruleth therein , and giveth them to whomsoever he will , and fetteth up over them fometime the bafeft of men , that the attaining there- to becometh fuch a providentiall title, asmayfuffi- ciently warrant , not only neceflary fubmifUon , and obedience in things law full , but even thefe other acts of feeming compliance, that do directly acknowledge theUfurperro beimitulo ; providing that they pro- ceed no further, either to anticipate Divine Provi- dence, in the establishment , or homologate the wick- ednefs of the ufurpation. If of this you have any doubt, I remit you to Scripture-praftice , the cu- ftomes of all Nations , the opinion of meft Cafuifts , and Reafon it felt , whereby the taking and exerciiing of inferior offices , under undeniable Ufurpers, is molt certainly confirmed : And this is plainly the cafe, both of State- ufurpations , and of thelargenefs of that fubmiiHon , which it admittes. Now as for Church- afurpations , the Kingdom of our Lord Jefus , not being mutable and perishing, like unto the Kingdoms of this world ; but his dominion of it felf extra Com- mtrcium) as Lawyers fpeak, of things not acquir- able Anfwercd. ilf able, and by Divine decree 3 an everlafting dominion which shall not pafs away , and his Kingdom that which shall not be dcftroyed : As it is therefore in- capable of all accjuifition , and his Crown fuch where- nnto(howrever the great ones ot the Earth may ban- die together and boaft themfelves agamftit) neither violence nor poflciI:on , canintitle; So, in cafe of a pretended ufurpation , though Providence may order a paflive fubmiflionj yet molt certain it is, that in this cafe 3 where there neither is nor can be any title* all deeds , fo much as of llmple recognizance , are ut- terly unlawful : And therefore albeit that under the late Ufurpation it was Lawfull to partake , in the ca- pacity of inferior Magiftracie , of that power, where- unto the Ufurper had in providence attained > yet , in the cafe of our prefent Church- ufurpation , to ac- knowledge it in the leaft , by partaking of a juri/dic- tion founded in the pretended Suprcmacie, and not derived from Chrift , to which neither the events of of Providence , nor immemoriable poflefllon , can give the leait shadow of title > is altogether un- rawfulL Thus I have unfolded to you the difparity that in- validates your Argument, and have alfo granted the paifive fubmiilion, which Providence and Chnftiaa patience do al waves recommend : If the grounds here infinuate do not fo eafily engage your aflent , when you shall add thereto thefe certain truths, i. That in Civils , though the manner of purchallng may be in many cafes injurious and unlawful ; yet it may befuf- ficient to acquire the dominion. 2. That whereever the length of time , or prefcription may fuperinduce a Right, there, even from the beginning, naked pof- fefion is quafitilulus , & qui pro [no fojjidet foteft ufifm ftperc. 3. That although Lawyers fpeak of certain I SS The^fourth Dialogue vitia>that in private rights hinder dehmce prefcription; Yet all Politicians grant, that immemorial poiielrion, or even thar of three ages , is fufficient to cotifirme ovlt any people the moft violent ufurpation. And laftly , that on the other hand , our Lords Throne and Scepter are everlafting , and iuch as can never be moved 3 I doubt not but all your difficulties will e- vanish. You proceed to fay , that our Minifters are content to Preach and q^ite Difcipline , a part of their Rights > why may they not afwell exercife Difcipline , though not with a full liberty ? Tis anfwered, i. As I have al- ready told you,that to fit in your Courts,is not at all to exercife Chnfts Difcipline, but a pretended power dependent upon another head ; fo , you do not truely accufeour Minifters of quiting Difcipline: it is well known > that , in fo farre as is permitted , they do not feparate Doctrine and Difcipline, which our Lord hes conjoined : And if full liberty be not permitted , and they necelficat to acquiefce to what the Powers will allow, it is very difingenuous in you, to mif- conftrue this force , which they fufFer , unto a volun- taire quiting. a. Though by the manner of your pro- pofing the objection , you would have us to believe , that the cafes-are parallel , and that in the cafe urged? as well as in that inftanced , there is only a reftraint laid upon a more full liberty; yet the difparity is moll tnanifeft in this, that in the matter of Preaching, with- out the exercife of Difcipline, we are by force debarred from doing full dutie , in which cafe , the doing of a part permitted , cannot be cenftred ; whereas in the compliance you require , the very act is finful , and is therefore , and not becaufe we are denied a more full liberty , very juftly by us refufed : but having vainly concluded , upon the poor arguments which we have, heard Anfvvcred. 189 Keard , our Minifters ro be Peeviih > and made your pitiful N. C. confeis himfelfnon-pluft by his genera! pretence of Confcience \ You ask him » what he can pretend for the peoples withdrawing from your Churches , Jhtce there is only a fmall alteration made in point o Go- i't rt.mcnt : *T is anfwered > it all the matter be a fmall alteration in point of Government , it had fane better become that charitable, healing and free fpirit, where- unto you fo often pretend, to have reflected thus; fince the change lately made , by its previous perjury, and fubfequent deluge or profanity \ the delblating or Churches, and diiperfing ot Shepherds and fiockes$ the difquieting , and vexing of thoufands , unqueftio- nably Godiy and Loyal ? the tiering and filling all the corners of the Land with contention and difcontentj the burdening of a Countrey > formerly exhaufted and now expecting relief , with heavie impofitions , and ftrange exactions ; And laftly, the neccflary and worft refult ot all thefe evils , the provocking the Lord to Anger , aud rendering his Majefties Government lefs comfortable , and defireable , hath occafioned fo great a perturbation, and yet, isinirfelf, and imports fo fmall a matter , why do not our King and Nobles con- fider for what the Land perisheth ? Wherefore do not all men bend their knees and pour out their prayers to God and the King , that fo feen deftructive , and eafily remedied a caufe, may be removed? but feing tor all your fparingnefs in palling judgment $ yet you ceafe not fcorntully tocenfure a poor people, needlefsly and unchnftianly , by you enlnared, and thereafter more cruelly perfecute , and oppreded , not repeating what hath been faid by others in their vindication , I shall briefly run over what you here fubjoin. You fav then That Separation being a tearing of the Body of Qhrift , to jorfake the unity of the Chunk > when thns 190 The fourth Dialogue tbtre kjit&ct.a colour of pretence for it, muflbea great fin, 'T is anfwered > I will not Hand to defcant upon the nature and feveral degrees of Separation , and how that non-conforming to , and compliance with 2 prevalent backiliding partie , in effect the worft of Se- parates , which is our prefent cafe j is very different) from the cafe of Separation } from a Church formerly acknowledged > and joined with ; nor love I to inquire howfarrea mans entrie into the Miniftrie, by open perjury and violence , and his profane and flagitious deportment therein > notourly known , may in the perturbed ftate of the Church , fupply the want of a declarative fentence , making void his million j Nor laftly, will I make ufe of your own plain laws, tthfc the A&anent the reftkution of Bishops , and the late Act 6f Supremacie , whereby all Church-power ( mark it) is mide dependem upon-, and fukor dint t unto the Kjngs Supremacies to prove your Minifters > to be but Court Curats: But in this I am plain and confident, that if the Prophets , who , by their lyes and lightnefs, caufe the people to erre , and foeak peace to fuch as defpife the Lord , and ftrengthen their hinds , who walk in the imagination of their own heart , be not to be hearkened unto ', if we ought to bewarre and flee from falfe Prophets , whofe fruits fof ungodlinefs as well as herefie , as is clear from the context ) do dif- cover them , to be but ravening wolves , deftroying Souls , tinder the sheeps cloathing of an exterior call, and hypocritical compofure ; if fuch who caufe divi-j {ions and offences, contraire to the received truth, and who ferve not our Lord Jefus, but their own belly, are to be avoided • and Iaftly , if theie Deftroyers, and Offenders be the only perfons guilty of all the Separa- tion , and other inconveniences , which enfue > then are your Ctrates fas dignofcible by all, or one or other of Anfwered. 191 of thefechara&ers ,as the night is by darkne.fsj juitiy, yea necefTarily , to be diiowned > fled from and avoid- ed , and only chargeable with rhac fchifme whereof you endeavour to make us guilty. But you add , That , in a fchifmaticat time-ferAng humour, we come fomciimes to Church , to ivite thepu>iijh- ment of Law \ but ftidomy that ire ma\ retain our int. re ft with our panic \ that we hear form 0/ sou hut ?,ot others ; that fome go to Churches in the Countrev , but not in the Citv ; and finally fome join with \ou in the ordinary If 'or* (hip pf Prayer ana praife , \ct will not ]oin in the Eucha- fifty which is but folemn pkiifc. Sir, if you had been candid in this reflection , in place of imputing this va- riety to humour, and faction, it would indeed have moved you to pity the ftrait or io many good people , redacted to fuch a multifarious perplexity ^ which* yec5 in its outward appearance , is but light, in compari- fon of thefe inward inquietudes , vt -herewith the con- traire workings of the fear of God , love of truth , abhorrencie of vvickednefs , tendernefs toward Au- thority, refpett to union and peace , and fearer pu- nishment, do continually foiiicite them : If I r prefume fo farre upon your credite , I could tell you that, in my certain knowledge , fome have been, againft their Confidences, forced by violence and fpoill to hear your Curates , who therefore have mourned many JVloneths thereafter , and certain of them even unto de3th ; That others whom the generality of your Curates did either offend , or , according to the Lords prediction Jcr. 2*. vm -3. after long mail net profite at all , have fearched by a choife to remedy the evill j ( for , that there are better and worfe not only as to private , but alio as to Publick tranfgrdfions , you groundlefsly deny) and laftly, that fome have prevailed with tliemfelvcs to hear and join with you in 192 The fourth Dialogue i prayer and praife, who have yet ftill fcrupled in their Conferences to communicate with you , in that Sacrament j which, betide the adjunct of folemn prai s5 :s defignedly inftituteto fignify and confirms our com i union in , is well as our union with Chrift, from whom , ive have reafqn to apprehend, that many of you , according to Scripture-rules? and the grounds which ycu conversations holdout, are at great dis- tance : If then thefe things be fo , let it fatiffy you in this point . clue, as the Generality of ths whole land would account it a gr< at reliefe to be delivered of all your Tribe, and manv of the godly are convinced, chat your Mmiltery being neither of nor for our Lord Jefus , is not to be owned $ fo all thefe umbrages of -compliance, whicnyouobferve, are only the efFefts of curiotity , fear , or fome other humane frailty , wherewith by you we can , neither in Charily nor in- genuity, be urged: But you are fo defireous to win us to this conformity of owning your Curates, that you are willing to fuppofe them to be but Intruders occupying the places of our faithful I foepherds violently torn awa> • and yet you argue, that although the high priefl-hood was in our Lords day es violently invaded by the Romans , and b-i them expo fed to fate , and thofe Sy- moniacks , did alfo ufurp tlu right of others $ yet we find ' Cajaphas, as high Prieft , Prophep/fig, and our Saviour Anfwmag to his author.uaiive adjuration $ and though the Pharifees were wretched teachers , and very guilts per fons\ yet our Saviour faith, hear them j for they fit in Mofes chair : which you fa and the Jewish confticution in General , ot a ChuicU and Nation joined in one fpecial people , unto God, by virtue of a Divine Law , For matters both Civil and Religious, committed, even in its Civil part? to. the cuftody and interpretation of their Religious Offi- cers , is fo manifeftly different from that ot the Chrif- tian Church, gathered in one, out of all and every Na- tion , only tor things Religious , without any alte- ration in their Civil State , under Je'us Chrift their Head and King) and the Minifters by him fenc forth , that little light as to our prefent purpofe > can be thence concluded. 2. That not only in the point of the Churches Minifterie but alfo in its worship and other ordfhances , to reafon from the difpenlations of Soveraigne Providence, in the decline of Churches , the la wf till compliance of good men with thefe Churches,in owning them in things found, and bearing with corruptions , which they could not remedy \ and laftly from the Lords ailiftance and pre- fence , that never thelefs hath therein appeared , For the declaring of what isdutie , ornotdutie, in the exigence of the firft innovations , tending an d leading unto the fetlement of thefe abufes , is very deceitful! and dangerous. If in this ye be doubtfull, my charity> J hope , shall give you fatiffa&ion : what , before the Reformation , were the grofs corruptions of the F o - mish Church, both in its Minifters'Worship and Sa- craments > is to you well enough known: And yet, that many pious and devout Souls, and fome of them convinced and mourning for its abominations , did neverthelefs therein finccrely feeke and ferve theLoid , and found the ftrength and joy of hisprefence, shall •ever be by me denied : If then it should happen.that 1 94 The fourth Dialogue in your high pretentions for Union &Peace>.a Popish Minifterie, or other abufes should be fet up? anden- joyned among us , would vou think it juft to require our conformity, and to offer to fquare dutie , in fuch a cafe, to any of thefe particular precedents to be found in the times of the former darknefs ? I am con- fident you would not: If our Lord , when on Earth, did for a while connive at certain corruptions , in a di£ penfation drawing to its period , and if at the times of ignorance God fometime wink, and according to the obfcurer light, and witneiling thereof , do allow the endeavours of fuch , who happily may feel after him5 and finde him , for any man thence to conclude, that the change unto the Gofpel adminiftration , made no alteration in dutie \ or that in a greater meafure of re* velation , whereby we are commanded either to re- pent of former , or to refill returning corruptions , we ought to be Hinted to the old rule, and make no further advance 5 are wide miftakes : It ought to be the ftudyof Gods Servants, to difcerne times, and to know, in this their day, the things which belong unto their dutie , as well as unto their peace : to ty up practice , that ought to be advertent unto , and hath a dependence upon every circumftance , unto generals abftracted and concluded from the particu- lar inftances of other times, is altogether fallacious. 3 . Let me remember you of what I have already hint- ed at , vi%. That feing Separation is a departing from an Union once acknowledged , even in thefe things which are not in themfelves condemned , which cer- tainly is of great importance , and of a very weighty and various confideration $ whereas non- conforming to, or non-compliance with the introduction of things. that are clearly finfull and unlawfull , hatha Bianifeft warrant , and is of no fuch extent ; from in- ftances Anlwerecl. 195 ftances of not Separating > to conclude againft Non- compliance ; and from denying the Majm of Non- feparation , to deny trw Minw or a tender forbearance* is bad Logick: nay, fo ill doth this parity hold? that on the contraire, the very avcrfion that every true Chiiftian ought to have for Separation ? doth moflly recommend this Non-compliance , which being a foveraigne and prefcribed antidote agai;:ft thefe evils, which, it once received , may go on to greater cor- ruptions , end neccllitit a fadder divifion , is therefore to be timeoully adhibite. For clearing of this , let me but ask you this one Qaeftion : The allowed Separa- tion of the reform, d Churches from that of Ro-mey doth it not plainly in ferre, that it had been better , and was the dutie of thefe in former ages , to have fea- fonably refilled , and not complied with the fir ft be- ginnings of thefe errors , and evils , wfhich afterward did procure the rent t And however you may judge, that the caufes of that Separation were no more then fufficient , and could have laked nothing -} yet I am allured , that you and every rationall man will fay > that atimeous Non-conforming , warrantable upon lefler motives , might have proven the better courfe . I shall nor enforce this confederation by fuggefting the evill tendencie of your way ; nor do I tell you rhat it is a reviving of the fame caufes , that in proceffe of time did produce all fymes abominations , and that thefe rloods of Error, and Superftition , had their vi- able rife from fmaller aberrations; fothat, if God should fuffcr the courfe of your detection to profper, and weare out the prelent opposition , the Ages to come might more juftly take up againftusthe com- plaint of our not timeous refitting ; then we can regret th.1 too eafi^ compliance of thefe , who should have wkiiftood the beginnings of Rjmes backftiding. On N 2 thefe 196 The fourth Dialogue thefe things , I fay , 1 do not infill • but , that you may the more plainly understand the difference that I conceive to be betwixt Non-compliance? and Sepa- ration, I freely acknowledge, that if God had per- mitted this whole Church > to Aide into the prefenc evils of your Prelacie and corrupt Minifters ,• and thereafter had blefled us with a difcovery ; yet I would not , in that condition , allow the fame necef- (ity, andexpediencieofa Separation, that now 1 finde, to plead for a Non compliance; in as much as our prefent Norn compliance , is not only a more certain, feafonable , and fafe dutie ; but is alfo attended with a faithfull and edifying adherence to our true andfent Teachers , who though removed to corners , do ftill remain the Lords Minifters , and our Parlors : which things do much difference it , from the cafe of a pro- per reparation , as above defcrived , and do not a lit- tle juitify thefe more tender practices which you would difprove. Now? though thefe few things premifed do ob- vioufly fatiffy the di ffictiky objected ; yet, to render the application more full andeafie, you mav further confider, that your inftance from thefe corrupt High Priefls, fet up by the Rom.w, doth not help you. 1. Eecaufe that the high Pried was ordained by the Lord 5 as in order to Sacrifice , fo alfo for Rule and Judgement , and that not only in matters purely Reli- gious $ but alfo in all things determinable by Mofes Law: at leaft as to theMinifterial declaring of the Jus ., which, albeit in a great part meerly civill , are yet, in this refpect ? termed the matters of God, and jubjected to the high Prieil his judgement , in the refpett mentioned. 2, There is no ftatute in Mofes Law, affixing, asycualleage, the high Prieft-hood to the Eldeft Son of Aarms line, who pollibly mighc have Anfvvered. 197 have happened to be an Jnrant , or legally incapable ; but only to his race in generall , fo that there was a neceflity that the determination of the choife should be in the hand of the Sanhedrin > thus Eli , ^Abiathar and AhimeUch were allot hhamar, and not of E/w- ^r his branch. As for the promife made by the Lord to Phineas , it is neither made to the eldeft Son of his pofterity, nor did it give any proper right ; but only an ailurance , whereof the accomplishment is futfi- ciently performed in the return of the Prieft-hood to 7^idocl^ , and his line , notwithfeanding the preceeding interruption. 3. Not to enter into a par- ticular debate anent the focm and power of the Jewish Church , as diftintft from the State , and wherein the differences did coniift ; this is the received opinion of the Orthodox , that though at the firft infhtution , their fupreme Church-fanhedrin was , as to caufes and feveral other particulars , diftinguished from their fupreme Civil-fan hodrin; yet through procefsof time, and many revolutions ot affaires , a confufion of the two grew more and more, and at length the Eccle- fiaftical Sanhedrin , whereof the High Prieft was Prefident did degenerate into a mixed Court , and having the advantage of enjoying their Religion under their civil mutations , and keeping their High Pnefts and his Courts, when they loft their King and civil Courts, for their greateft matters, did exerce by their Ecclefiaftical Sanhedrin all the civil power they could be permitted to exerce. 4. Particularly it is evident that, from the dayes of the Maccabees , the High . Prieft-hood was much changed from its primary in- ftitution , and as more extended to and bufied in civil Rule, then converfant in holy things ; fo much ex- pofed to frequent invafions at home , and at length , with the whole Nation > f wallowed up by a forraiene N 3 do- 193 The fourth Dialogue dominion : Which taints being daeiy perpended , it clearly appears , chit neither the practice of tne. Ro- mans, founded in che right (though anabule or the cxercife) of their conquell, nor tne fymony of the purchafers , a clandeiline crime, did make void their Priefthood : How much lefs then do Cajaphas his propheiying , a providential Dilpenfation ,. or our Lords tree anfwering and conreilion to his adjura- tion, whether authoritative made by him as a Judge of the Nation, or otherwise, fcaree fufficient to prove a Non-ieparation , militat againft our Non- compliance, with your re-intreducmg of abjured Pre- lacie , and i ts corrupt M iniftery . As for your inftanc- ing of the Pharifees > our Lords words in this matter Math. 2i. 2,3. are , the Scribes and the Phari fees Jit hi Mofts feat ; a'i therefore tvbatfeever they bid youob- ferve,tbat chftrvc&do-fjut do not ye after thdr ivorks^c. And that hereby you have no advantage appears, 1. Becauie it doth not rnanifeftiy appear , that the Scribes and Phanfees here fpoken or were intruders ; but, on thecontraire, it is mod probable that they were Doctors of the Law, lawfully appointed ac- cording to the uie of that people. 2 The Scribes & Pharifees,fittingin Mofes chair,did teach the Law, not as appertaining meerly to theSoul' & Religion toward God^but as the Municipal Law of that Nation containing alfo the rules of external righ- teoufnefs and policies and therefore are to be regarded not fo much as Ecciefiaflick Teachers , but rather as Doctors or the Law : whereby it is evident, that your argument from our Lords command, is asfarre, in this refpcCt , from concluding our compliance with your intruding Preachers , as thefe National Doctors, with whom our Lord was not to medle further, then to vindicat the Law of God from their corrupt glofles and Anfwcred. 199 and pra&ices, are different from out Spiritual Paftors who being fenc by Jefus Chrift , cannot by Man be difcharged. 3. It it be urged that the Scribes and Pharifees were alfo the Teachers and Directors of all matters of Religion ; and even in civils did only rejpondcrc de fkre from the law of God , although this do no way re- move the difparity , immediatly alligued \ yet this is further to be obferved, that as our Lord in this regard did exprefsly warn his difciples to beware of the lea- ven of the Pharifees , and m many things correct their vain and perverfs doctrines ; (o his tolerance of them in Mofcs chair was only temporane , as of many other things , untill the then approaching end of that difpeu- fation , which he would not anticipate: during which time, it our Lord do command a well-cautioned ob- fervance, for the belt improvement of that which was shortly to be abolished , can you rationally thence inferre , that we ought , at the pleafure of men, both deferte his fent Minitters , whom he hath not recalled, and comply witli and o ,vne Intruders , fo lightly vio- lating , and abufing his Ordinance £ But 4 Admit that the Scribes and Pharifees their entrie to that o!Hce, were not in every point juftiriable, and that they truely were very wretched Teachers ; yet, their occupying of that charge , feing our Lord did not fend forth and efhblish his" perpetual Gofpel Minif- terie, until after his refarreclion , was not circum- ftantiat with > and peccant in the violent exciuficn of others , lawfully fetled in that chair , which they pofleiTed. Sir, this is fo carting a difference , that I nothing doubt , but if you will only pole your fdf9 whit you think our Lord would have determined, in cafe that , there being among the Jzivsy an eftablished order of lawful Teachers , the Pharifees had rifen up, N 4 and 200 The fourth Dialogue and by open perjury and violence ejc&ed them, and that the bufinefs being ftill recent , and many of the Teachers remaining on life , and by all acknowledged for iiich , whom man could not exau&orate, the peo- ple had firmly adhered to them. Let your Confcience, I%fay , in thefe fuppofitions , fincerely refolve the queftion , and, I am molt allured , the verdift of your own breaft will be , that whatever was our Lords connivance for a time , at a Non-feparation from a courfe, whereunto he was shortly to put a period; yet , in the cafe here ftated , he would not have com- manded the people to deferte their lawful Guides, and follow Intruders , and thereby countenance fuch a wickednefs. 5. Although I love not to play the Critick, «nd do grant , that the obfervance here enjoined , doth indeed inferre Hearing not to be prohibits j yet your exhi- biting of the command in thefe words, not found in Scripture , hear them , for they fit in Mofes chair , doth found fo like to that heavenly voice , this is my bdoved .Scn,&c. and that Emphatick hear ye him there com- manded ; . whereby , the old letter and typical shad- ow s of Mofes Law being antiquat , I jjfcand immor- tality were brought to light,- that I cann6t but account (that, however our Lord permitting the hearing of the Pharifees fo long as that dlfpenfation did ftand not abolished doth here dire&Iy aime only at its right improvement , ) the two , hear ye him , and hear ye them , in the fame (ignification , to be inconfiftent; and this reprefentation , a Stretch favouiing more of • favour to your caufe, then tendernelfe of Truth and Scripture-phrafe. But I am tedious in a matter, fo obvious , the fumme , wher in I would have you and all to fixe , is this, that whatever may have been or may be the various difpenfations of Providence, in the Anfwered. 2ci the overcloudings of Churches , and decline and cor- ruption of Ordinances, wherein no doubt the holding the foundation Jefus Chnft , by found Faith , and fin- cerity in Gods fight , have gone a great length ; yet as the inftancing of fuch times, cannot, with any shew of reafon , or meafure of hor.efty , be alledted foratacite, and toward compliance , with the re in- troducing of the evils of thefe dark times , in Doctrine or Worship, contraire to the revelation of a more full and pure light ; fo no more can it be made ufe of, after the manifeft and fealed bleiling of a fent and faithful Miniftery ,to perfwadea voluntaireabandoning,atthe lull and arbitriment of Man , of our true Paftors , and a willing and tame imbracing, and owning of ma^feft and profane I ntruders. According to which Rules , if you will be pleafed to re-examine your in- ftances , I doubt not but you will find them , neither to be unanfwerabU , nor that the Doctrine of our Tea- chers ,againftcaufelefs Separatifts , doth homologate your inference. As to what you add , That it is a thefe Intruders , entering not by the door > are liker to Theeves , thefe falfe Teachers are but ravening Wolves , and thefe Prophets , who teach lies, are but the taill ; Nay, every one, who rightly confiders, how that in place of minding the Lords Work , whereunto they pretend, and honouring him before the people, they have made his offering and Sanctuary to be ab- horred , and his name to be prophaned , in liew of that honour which you acclaime , may juftly con- clude, thatf/^y that defp/fe the Lord , fliall be lightlv tf, e'emd. Say noc where is Chriftian Charity } to call the Anfwered. 20$ the manifeft lewdnefs and lies of thefe pitiful Mif, creants 3 whole grofs abominations are 5 aimoftevery where, thegrier 'of the godly, and the very icorn pfalli nay luch , whereof your ielf/wg. 30. doth abhorrethe patrociny , and ror which, you pretend to be a bitter mourner in iecret , Slight grounds , and to bid men be flow to tike thence an impreilion , is plain mockery ; Chanty that beleeveth ail things , reftethandrejoiceth only m the Truth, andrejoicech not in iniquity : ncitaer can you alleadge , our grounds being good 3 your Church, in our not complaining > to be neglected > it were ltrangj cha: icy to beleeve, as the proverb runs > that Satan will reprove Jin . As for youralledging , th.it tofeparate upon the per/anal failings much more wea^mfs of a Preacher , it ill open a wide doer to Scparation.X\ Whatever danger may be in your imooth generality ;yet , J am confluent , not to owne (Tor , as to leparation , I have already cleared how the practice of thefe ycu do concern n doth differ from it J ; t or Mmifters , fuch vitious intruders, and flagitious livers, as your Carats are, is a Soveraign expedient for preferring both of Truth and Chuitian Unity; and that as to tv the good of U'orlhip tothefinceretnlen- tionof himth. t managetb it , is an error $ lb, to think that. Gifts and a fuitable converfeina Minifter, are of no influence or regard as to the work of his Mini- ftery 5 and that becaufe , not to hear Sermons onU , but the folemn worfcip of God is the chief end 0; our meeting (wherein you are miftaken , if you think that you and we do not agree) which we can do, be the Mi/.ijlcr what he will, is irreligion unmixed, which your jejune commending of the reading of good Scriptures , and fvigiagof good Pfal/nes , dotn not palliate. Be themi- ?iijier what he will: What? be he Socinian , ^Ar mi- nim, notorioufly flagitious , an Adulterer > or Ince- stuous 204 The fourth Dialogue ftuous Perfon , a defpiler of Difcipiine , a ftrengthenef of the hands of the Wicked , and fadner of the hearts of the Godly , a Symoniack , is nothing but what he may will, and many of yours do, defatlo> will: nay, be he Popish, Mahumetan , Pagan or Atheift, all are but what he may will: O execrable latitude ! But you conclude this point , that our croud- ing to hear fitch weak, men , now in Conventicles , who formerly were of no efleem among us , fayes we are not fo jealous for good Preachings , as we would mike the world beleeve. Pray, Sir, if a man in plenty? makechoife, and in penury make a shift , will you thence inferre , he is notdedrous of thebeft , this is too weak : but , to be ingenuous with you , I queftion not , butfome Curat* make conftantly more able , and frequently better Sermons , for the matter , then weaker Non- conforming • and yet , the juft grounds of our excep- tions , do frill conclude , that they are neither fo good men , nor acceptable Preachers , as thefe whom we preferre. As for what you add , That the way to make a man popular among us , is to rail again ft Church and State , It is a malitious calumny , wherewith you endeavour toflander us unto our Rulers , and which they , who ought to be as the Angels of God , may eatiiy difcerne and repell. Your N. C, in the next place objefts to you, the obligation of the Covenant : wherein the whole Nation and the pofterity are engaged , to main- tain our former Presbyterian Miniftery , extirpat your Prelacie and all depending on that Hierar- chic , and whatsoever shall be found conrraire to found Do&rine , and the power of Godlinefs. I ^hall not improve this argument, being of fuch an obvious evidence, in any further explication; but briefly review what you anfwere > on the contraire : And Anfwered. 205 And 1. Your evil Coniaence ioometh forth your in- dignation againft the Covenant , in your reproachful! calling it j our Goliah , alwa-es brought out bv w , to defy the ^Armies of the living God , whole fhttogtb , Ufa Sampfons , lay in its hair , the jinnies that j ought for it , and not in any innate vigour. But as, noiwith- ftanding all the arrowes of malice , blafphemy > and rage, that you and your party , have shot at it , itftill abideth in ftrength , and the Armies of its followers have been made ftrong, by the- hands of the mighcy Godot Jacob . and, even in their rrroftdefperat ex- tremity, did by the bloud of the Lamb , and the word of their Teftimony > obtain the moft fignali victory • So, the Virgi/hthe Daughter of %im , hath defpifed thee and laughed thee to [corn ; Whom hafi thou reproached r And again f whom haft thou exalted thy voice f even a- gainii the' hoi v one , the God of truth ( for what are men or their doings , that you murmure againft them) the fwift Witnefs againft fuch •> asfv eareralfly : He it is that regardeth the rage , and tumult of your par- tie, and will mine you back : and as the inconflftencic, of your aft imitations to Sampfons Worthy of the Lord and to Goliah , a Champion of the Philrjtines , do plainly difcovcr the unreafcnablenefs of your fpitc ; fo the Lord who hath already proved the bmate :•;'- gvtr of his Covenant, in the bloud and fufTering of his jMartyres , can alio , in his good time, make its hair togrow, and firengthto returne , to the utter mine of your Prelacie, and all its adherents. But 2. You proceed to tell us, that it is a ridiculous fancie , to fa- , Children can be bound by their Fathers Oath , which 1) to make us the Servants o men, aid give them Authority over our Confciences , Gods peculiar power : Sir-, I per- ceive that whether you rage or laugh there is no reft : juft now we heard you railing , and certainly here you are 2o6 The fourth Dialogue are rallying : but firft , I am glad to rind you aflert Co plainly , the liberty of our Conferences from mans im- poling, and shall only remember you , that if a Father, in refpeft of this liberty , may not , at his arbitriment> bind his Son by an Oath , requiring a confeientious performance , undoubtedly fane lefs can Rulers, whether Civil or Ecclefiaftick , prefcribe at their ar- bitriment in matters of Religion, which, without que- ftion, do exaft a confeientious obfervance. &. Though, the Lords Authority overConfcience do indeed ex- empt k from mans ufurpation ; yet? in fo farre as it hath pleafed the Lord , to veft any perfon with this power over another , all ufurpation ceafeth, and the Lords referved dominion doth rather eftablish it : for example ; therefore it is , that the righteous and ne- ceflary commands of lawfull Rulers , do even in con- fcience bind their Subjects ; becaufe in fo farre as they obferve the limits of their power, by him appointed, their authority is underftood to be of God? and by him approved and allowed. 3. It is manifeft that the Lord hath , in many things , given to Fathers, by virtue of his precept , a Power of Command , reaching even unto Confcience , without an interveen- ing Oath : Honour thy Father and thy Mother , is that which God hath enjoined ; and doth certainly require a futable obedience; If then this Authority be not impugned by your alledged reafon , that we are not the fervants of men , can the interposing of an Oath, or the Fachers adjuration , in things otherwayes under the compafs of his power, render your objection more efFectuall t But 4. That I may returne you a round and full Anfwere : I fay , that in many cafes, whereof our prefent cafe of the Covenant is of all the moft pro- bable, Children , by virtue of the paternal authority given and allowed by the Lord, can be, and defafto are Anfwered. ^p^ arc bound, by their Fathers Oath: And firsl, wherc- ever the Fathers command doth engage to a perpetuall obedience , there can be no queftion , but , in that cafej an accefiory adjuration doth greatly intend the obligation: I need notcor.firme this by the parallel inftance of Saul's adiuring the People, while in the puriuite of his enemies j the reafon of this pofkion is above exception, vi%. Thatifa fimple command, flowing from the paternall power which God hath cftablished, be therefore binding , the folemn invock- ing of the fame God to be an avenger of the contempt of that authority, by himfelfapproven, cannot but add to the obligation : but if you defire to know in what things, and how farre the command of a Fa- ther , even of it felf , without the confenc and accep- tation of the Children , (which I grant , when inter- venient , doth alter the cafe) doth oblige f Take the inftance of the Recbabites , who for obedience to their Father Jonadafrs command, who lived fome Ages before, 2 Kings io. 15. not to drink wine ( a thing free in it (tlt\ and not under any Divine precept J rhey nor their fons for ever , have therefore the Lords ex- prefs commendatiomfealed with a perpetuall blelfing ; If then a Father's command in things free, and arbi- trary , may be confirmed by the accefF.on of an oath , and, in the cafe adduced , doth perpetually bind, how much more , mult the fworn engagement of the Fa- ther for himfelf and his pofterity in things comman- ded by the Lord, be everlaftingly obliging. i.In what cafe foever, a Father's Bond or Contract is binding to himfelf and his pofteiity , if he confinne the famine by an Oath , the force and vertue thereof doth alfo reach all the ofF-fpring, cocerned in the c'Dligement. For explication of this truth , it is not needful that I determine pai ticulai ly> what Contracts ai e pei netual, and aos The fourth Dialogue and what only perfonall : If thefe be perpetual, wnereof thefubjeft matter being either under the ne- ceility of an exprefs perpetual command, or having an evident and Iafting conveniencie , agreeable to the gmnci} ' es of Truth and Righteoufnefs , the party con- tra&erdoth expreisly thereby engage for hiuifelf and hispofterity: as it is short of the true and full extent of perpeiuill contrafts , which cannot in reafon be refti icted within the limits of paternal commands , fo> ins more then neceiTary for my purpofe, and more then proven bv the inftances fubjoined. Now that there are fuch obligations , as perpetual of their own nature fo , carrying along with them the virtue of that acceflbry Oath , whereby at firfb they were established , is clear , not only from that Cove- nant and Oath Deut.i^. 10. & 14. whereumo Mofes did engage the people of Ifrael % and which he decla- red! to be made with them that ftood there that day , and alfo with him that was not there -} to wit the Ge- nerations to come 5 as appears by the fequele of that Chapter, fpecialiy, v. 29. an example whereof the' exceeding evidence can only expofe it to exception ; but alfo from thefe more controverted inftances 1. of that Promiflbry oath taken by Jofeph of the Children of Ifrael , for carrying up his bones from Egypt > Gen. 50. 25. which the afcer-generation in the Con- fcience of its Religion did punctually obferve, Exo.it,. ver. 19. 2. From the Oath fworne by the People of Ifrael to the Gikonites , 70/h. 9.15. for the breach whereof, we find, the Lord feyerall ages thereaf- ter, feverely animadverting againft all Ifrael , and Sauls houfe in particular: 2 Sam. 2: 1,2. For thefe you may add , the fworne Leagues , and Agreements of all Nations among themfelves, which do undoubt- edly, with|the fame force and quality > defcend to thejr Anfwered. 209 their Pofterity. Bur wherefore should I infift in 2 matter lb evident, and, at lead as to the difference betwixt us 5 univerfally acknowledged? If your meaning? in affirming that Children can not be bound by their Fathers Oath , were only , that however, 2 promiffory Oath j may be binding upon the Pofterity, in thenatureofapromife, and tor performance ; yec the religion of the Oath , is not fo iranfmitted , as to render the Poftenry , in cafe or a breach , perjured ; there might poifibly appeare to be fome ground of debate betwixt us • ( of which afterward ) but ieing it is apparent both from your propofition j explica- tion fub joined , and defign aimed at , that you deny a Fathers promiflbry Oath , even in the fubftance , vi\. fo much as a promife , let be in the quality of an Oath , to be obliging as to his Children , you mani- festly repugne, not only to the inftances given; but to the common opinion ? reafon , yea and fenfe of all Men , Nations and Ages, whereby it is moft conftant, that fuch is , and hath been. al way es repute, the power and reprefentation of Fathers quoad their Children > that their pa&ions and contracts , not only in matters determined by divine precept; but alio in things in themfelves free and indifferent , vi%. their condition in order to the Society civil > whereof thev are mem- bers , yea even their ftate , as free men or (laves, have, w.thout the leaft challenge of Ufurpation over Conf- eience , feing founded in that Authority which God approves, been holden perpetually binding. But that I may immoveable cftablish the obligation of this Covenant, which I am perfwaded God will require, for ever.; I shall not content my felf with thefe com- mon conceffions. 1. That the fworne pactions and Covenants of a Nation or People incorporate in one Body Politick , do , even in the quality of piths * O dcicend • 2io The fourth Dialogue defcend to arter Generations j becaufe j while the fame civil form of their conftitution remains , they areftill underllood to be the fame People, notwith- ftanding of the change whether partial or total of the individual conftituents , which doth no more alter the formal identity of the Nation , then the rluxe and change of parts in our bodies , waters in a channel, or boar els in a Ship , do change the famnefs of the Per- fon, River, or Ship. 2. That the promiflbry Oaths of Fathers } in all things , whereunto the fphere of their Authority doth extend , do at leaft bind the Children, as promifes , and to the implement : which concef- fions granted by all, do neverthelefs, above all fcruple> confirm e the obligation of our Covenants , which youimpugne: yet , feing that 1 do apprehend, both the difparity placed betwixt a Nation and a private perfon , to be narrow and groundlefs , and the fecond pofition,to fall short of Truths full extent in this mat- ter ; to remove from you all ground of fcruple , I shall reduce the whole matter to thefe certain po* fitions. i. That though aflertory Oaths, being only ac- ceflbry for further fecunty , do indeed intend , but cannot extend, the force of any Obligation, either as to its fubiect matter , or the perfons'thereby bound , beyond its rational import ; yet fuch hath alwayes been the Religion, and Reverence of promiflbry Oaths as, (nothing impeding either from the peculia- rity of the fobjeft, or other circumftanres , or from the declared will of the perfon engaging,) ever toam- pliat, and extend the interpretation, and make the fucceflbrs , as well as the promifer himfelf > under- ftood to be therein comprehended. 2. That the true ground and meafbre , both as to ehe determination of the fubjeft ? and extent of the obliga- Anfwered. 211 obligation, whereby the force ot the Fathers contract exprefsly binding himfelf and his pbfterity , may be known and defined j is , this Paternal power and au- thority ♦ it being in it felf evident , that , as by reafon hereof the Children follow the ftate and condition of the Father, (unlefs in fo farre > as the favour of hbeity, or pofitive Law hath made an alteration ) fo , where the Father by command may oblige to obedience, if by his obligation he do bind to performance, he is thereby truly to be unde. ltood much more , defaSo > to exercife all the power he hath , whereby he may render his engagement effectual: Now in what things, and how lane Fatheis may both difpofe upon and command their Children , is fufficiently known , and their undoubted Authority, not only to command obedience to the Law of God ; but alio to determine them in matters tree, are, bv the examples of Pious Parents , and that of JnuLib upon record , much more clea;ed , then is necelTary to our bypothefis. 3. Seing it is from the virtue and influence of this paternal power , that the Contract of Society, where- by Politick bodies do at fir ft coalefce, dothdefcend unto the pofterity , and fo continue the Society , and its conftitution to after-generations; the reafon where- fore the other Contracts, either fimple or fvvorne, en- gaged into by thefeaflbciat people , do bind their fuc- ceflbrs , mult of neceility refolve into the fame caufe ; andtoreferre it to an imaginary famnefle, having no other reality then the firft inrercellk>n,and continuance of the fundamental Contract of Society , is but an emptie Notion , importing no real difference; for, as the perpetual obligation of the original Contract, conftituting the Society , can have no other caafe then what is alligned; and it were irrational to attribute its continuance , to a famnefs , which it produceth ; O z fo, 2 1 z The fourth Dialogue fo ) it is only in the force and power tnereof > that all other after- National-Contra&s , are binding upon the whole , and propagat to the fucceeding race- 4. This third pofition being certain , it necefTarily follows > that the oath taken by jofepb, of the Child- ren oflfrael , anent his bones 5 and that given by them to the Gibeonhes , both , by Scripture declared to be binding, as Oaths, upon the Pofterity , have no proper and peculiar reafon , but do unanfwerably con- clude , that whereever the Father's obligation, other* wayes binding to his ofF-fpring, is confirmed by an Oath , it is tranfmitted to them with the fameaccef- fory force , to render them guiltie in God's fight, not only of breach ot Promife, but breach of Oath: which argument is fo much the more evident, in thefirft cafe of Jofph , that the Children of Ifrael were not > when they fware to him, imbodied in a Politick ftate; but did only ftand in their natural Relation of Con- sanguinity. 5. Seing wc finde inScripture the Lord Covenant- ing with Fathers, for themfelves , and their Pofterity \ as in the cafe of Abraham ; Fathers engaging to the Lord in the fame manner , as Jo\hua for himfelf and his houfe ; the above-mentioned import , and extent of fonadab's command , and ( not to mention the Fathers power of devoting their Children, and of making void their vowes ) even the adjuration and curfe of Rulers , taking effect, many Ages thereafter; as that of Jofhtia againft the Rebuilders of Jericho : with what shew of reafon , can we deny ftiie matter, or other argument of a contraire intention, not pro- hibiting) that the fworne obligations of Fathers , are binding upon their Children , afwell for the Religion of the Oath , as the Truth of the Promife? I know that , as to mans tribunal and judgement, it is thought hard Anfwered. 213 hard pceJiam perjurij illi irrognri , qui fofe Deum tejieni ac vindicem non invocayerit , that one [fould bepw.ifci d 4i perjured* who hath not himfelf imocatid God at wh- in fs and avenger. But as we do clearly fee , the Lords judgement in the contraire y- doth not the fame reafon, which , by making the Father's promife , for himfelf and Children, alio their promife, and therefore bind- ing , by tranfmitting trie Oath in like manner , con- firme its righteoufnefs. I need not here precaution > againft the Children their invincible ignorance of the; Fathers Promife, and Oath; their innocencie in this cafe, defcendmg from a clearer diftinft head, and purging from breach of Promife, as well as breach of Oath , doth neither inferre the libeitv, which you plead for -, nor impugne the tranfmiilion of a fwornc Promife, in its Religion, as well as in its Obligation. 6. Our Covenant, being in the matter neceflary and righteous \ for the manner , made with and be- fore God, to be perpetually binding -3 and for its lo- kemnity , unanimoufty fworne , by almoft the whole Nation, and confirmed by all the Authority init3 hath, fuch: a Concur ring evidence, of all arguments , and opinions, for its perpe'tuity, as an Oath, that your nib ling at it, upon this head, is not a greater proof of your perridie , thenteftimony ofyounncon- fi derate ignorance ; bur if you be ignorant your felf , you do well to make vour N,C, no better: and there- fore you make him objecte againft your aflertion, that Children cannot be bound by their Fathers Oath : dptb not the Fathers debt oblige the Son ?, and win not hvs Oath ? But to give you the advantage you defgne: I v\ illingly turne the Argument to make for you , thus : The Father's debt doth not oblige the Son , unlefshebe alfo his Heir , and in this refpect , only as PoffeiToi of O 3 hi* 214 The fourth Dialogue his goods: therefore &c. To winch i anfwere, that as by the tenor of written Bonds for debt. i$ is clear, that the Debtor doth only oblige himfeli, & his Heirs, §qd Succeflbrs in his Lands and goods , fo, both Law ana* Reafon do interpret , all ordinary promifes for debt , to be of the lame nature , vi%. to bind tne per- fon him felf, and to follow and affect his Efhte , to- gether with the perfon , who, enjoying, by univerfal title? the promifer his eftate, is, by the interpretation of Law , underftood to accept of the fame, with that burthen , and no further , fo , that , if a Son, as Son, be not liable, it is evidently from the reftn&ion of the obligation , according to the meaning or tne par- ties ; wnich I already told you , thit an acceflbry Oath doth not exceed ; and maketh nothing for a Son's freedom.; in Conference , as to fuch other en- gagements , whereunto both the Father's power , and intention , do concurre to make him liable. In the next place , I conrefs you do your N. C» reafon, and as juftnow we have heard, the ridicu- lous objection you put in his mou:h ,• fo. in this place> to his unanfwerable argument, for the Childrens obli- gation by the Parents Oath , from the dutie of our al- legeance, defcendmg from our Fathers their fwear- iing the fame ', you returne as ridiculous an anfwer : vi%. That we art not at all obliged to the Kjng h their Oath , but becaufc the right oj the Crown k in hps Perfon i who can forbear to laugh ? are you a Doctor in Ifrael, and alfo a high pretender for the King, and underftands no better i You fay the right of the Crown Kin his perfon, but fuppofing it came thereby the originallconfent, and allegeance fworne to his firft Predeceflbr , (which J| am fure is a title which , in this place , you will not quarrel) is not the fame that is the caufeof his King- ship 3 alfo the reafon of our fubjeclion ? Or will you admit* Anfwered. 21$ admit it to be the Creating , and not alfo the Confer- ring caufe t How do the moft common maximes of reaion militat againft you i You add , and we are born his Subje&s : but, pray , doth our birth as men , or as men born in fuch a place > bring us forth with this character ? then should all men , or at leaft even ftran- gers j cafually born in the place, be alfo born Subjects: whereunto then can it elle be afcnbed , unlefsitbe? that we are the ofT.fpring of fuch, who for themfelves and their pofteriry , didlubmit to the King , byaper- petuall fiirrender , tranfmitted upon us , pafive with the fame obligation? If thefe things do not fatisfy , I intreat you to reflect , upon the ordinary ftrain of all impeachments : where you will rinde, the perfon ac. cufed of Treafon , though he never actually fwore * or promifed allegeance; yet conftantly , and very con- gruoufly, charged, with breach of Faith > Failtv, and Allegeance : nay? I nothing doubt , but if yoa were ddcribing to us the crime of Rebellion , you would at great kngti) prove, it, tobcbothtalshood and perfidy. Your N« C. proceeds to argue thus : How wat Adam obliged for hit Poflerity , if Parents car.not binde their Children ? And in return you (ay , Thts is j7 range dealing : and becaufe you will have the inftance an in- applicable myftery , therefore, you recurre to fecret Dhbu tranfaiHms 3 without either warrant, or ne- cellity : but , Sir , is not this a ftrange ftupiditie in you; beitfo, that God's Covenanting with Adam , as the common Head of Mankind, Co as upon his deed, to make their ftanding or falling depend, is a difficulty , which only Gods Soveraignity can expli- cat: is this therefore alfo a myfterie , that xAdam might have been , any other father may be obliged, both for himfelfandhis pofterity •, fo as to ty them to O 4 obe- %\6 The fourth Dialogue obedience) and upon their own dnobedlence (not their Fathers , which is the (ingulanty of Gods Co- venant with Adam) to render then guilty i or can there be any thing n. ore plain , both m Scnptureand Reafon , then that not only the Lords command , ac- cording to his will j should be perpetual to the Pof- terity $ but alfo a Peoples Covenant , made with hira to obferve the Tame , doth oblige both them and after- Generations, to continual! obedience? as the 29. of Deut. mofi: convincingly holds out. But you goon Aill ftumbling , thus : If Parents can binde duties upon their Children, they may at well binde fins , and this is to make way for more Origi nail fin then Adams. Who would not pity fuch im pertinencies ? The thing af- ferted, is, that a Parent mayobUdge for his Chil- dren to dutie : and you fubjoin , he ma-; at well bind fins upon them I Certainly, Sir, thefe are not the words of fobriety : A Parent may command his Son to dutie , may he alfo command him to fin ( the ignis fatuns ehatfeduces you, is that you appear to be dazled, by an imagination of ycur own , that we go about to Impute to Children , not the Parents obligation • but their deeds, their duties, or failings, which , truly we as little dream of? as certainlv you will iinde your prefent dream , about Origiuall fin, when you returne eoyourfelf, wholly extravagant. But the next lapfe you make, is, in the perfonof your N C. whom you caufe in place of adducing an obligement by a Father , binding himfelf and his po- sterity , to bring in the inftance of the Baptifmal vow, undertaken by the Father , in Name of the Child, which feing it meets not our Queft ion , you both ob- je£te, and anfwere to no purpofe. The next demand your N. C makes , is, How then 0 Saul charged , and hps Children punijhed , for kjUing the Anfwered. %\y the Gibeonites { And to this you make a very pleaiant return , not unlike your anfwere made to our obliga- tion of Allegeance , vi%. Shat Saul n taxed for blond , (Did killing the Gibeonites , whobv the Lords ratifying the PrhiCts their Oath to them ■> had got aright to their lives ; and not jor perjure againftthat Oath , which the Pr/nces {wore : Before 1 coniider this anfwere , let us tii ft hear the Scripture. ZSam. zi.l. [Now the Gibeonitcs mere not of Ifrael ; hut oj .the Amorites , and the Children of I J rue I had f worm unto them , and Saul fought to flay them, &c. Wherefore David faid to the Gibeonitcs , what hall I do for you t ] do .not thefe words clearly intimate? that the injury done them, was contraire to that former Oath, whereby they were fecured i To this you fay , The Oath is oni; fare men. ioned , to reminde the Reader of the former Hijiory • but doth not at all fay , that the Oath was fill binding ; Bur, if the words be fet down to reminde the Reader, certainly, it is in order tofomeappofice purpofe^and the blind account that you make , is fcarce worthy of your (elf 3 let be the Scriptures of Truth. Next , what can be more evident , then, that the Oath is iirft men- tioned } to shew their right , thence derived • and SauVs injury, being thereto fubjoyned , it is manifeft, that for his breach thercbv incurred , a reparation for an attornment is offered : and i'dii^ the Scripture faith enough , if it fay not expreffly > that the Oath was ftill binding , itfeems only to be omitted, becaufe in that Age , dure was none who doubted , much iefs of your opinion , to deny it : Now as to your anfwer, I mult take notice of what yeufeem to inflnuat, that the Gibeonitcs were I pared , not by rcafon of their Cove nant-, made with the Princes *, but by the Lords ratifying of it , whereby thc\ became to be excepted , from the reft of the devoted Canaanites • Bur Pray, Sir> do you not O 5 in xjg The fourth Dialogue in fofuppoftng contradict your Feilo-v brother the Surveyerok'Naphtaly who ranteth ( as you ufe to do) againft his Adverfary the Author of the Apologetical Relation , who aflerted the fame which you here fup- pofe. Z. You fpeak of a ratification of this Oath of the Princes , by virtue of which 5 abftra&ed from the Oiththeie Gibeonites were (pared 3 which you would do well to explain and cleare, Scing then you cannot but grant that the Gibeonites were fpared 5 and enjoyed their lives , by the right of that peace fworne onto them , my next reply is moft evident , vi%. that your anf were ? alledging SauVs killing the Gibeonites , to have been cruell , and bloudy againft their Right \ but not perfidious againft that Oath and Covenant , whereby their Right was granted, can no more be laid of Saul ? then it might have been faid of the Prin- ces? who at firil fwore , if fo be they had 5 the very next hour , brocken their Oath , and deftroyed thefe, whom they had faved , it being a truth moft certain , that as every violation of Faith , is, an injurious inva- Hon of that right , which was thereby fecured ; fo, it is impoflible for a right, ariiing from a Contract or Covenant? tofubfifU unlefs its caufe do ftillftand , $l be repute to be in force : You addtfte Saul ts t^xcd vfttwd and not of perjury: A poor shift ♦ But Ihave al- ready shewed him to be noted for both'}Scbloudy & de- tykfttlt zee. of too near a conjunction, to allow of your negative inference , of the exclufion of the other , bc- casiCe one only expreiTed. And now > Sir , I have aided this point: ony let me fay it without vanitie thitasl judge, your folly in this laft difcourfe to be feh , as no fober man could lightly fall into, without 2 judicial defertion ; fo > I am confident if there be say ingenuity in you , the return which I juftly make you of ch; Epilogue > which in this place you fo vain- ly Anfwered. 219 ly ufe , will cover you v\ ith blushes, vit, Thus 1 have tal^tn man pains , then wm need u'l , to [hew the ridicu- lous jondnejfe oj your abfurd notion, vhfa That Children cannot be bound by tlnir Fathers Oath } and have laid more to difprove it then ever you will be able to anfvvere. What follows in this Dialogue is a meere rapibdie of railing , and in the tii ft pi j^e to decline your N,C. toopungentdemard, that jur all you have [aid , • ou ca, nn dem but the Covenant binds thefe who tooke it , you make a hydeous noiie , of that Little nJfe , which, you lay , we made in breaking it infome things : trf^. In ourjllence , and not declaring again ft the Apoflacy , Tv- ranny , and Perjury of the Ufurpers , and in our faint giving over to Pray for the King-, Sir, contemning your calumny, I anfwere , were not the Uiurpers Sufficiently oppofed in their evill courfes , while there was hope i And is this all you can fay , that the Lord haying broken us , and brought us under their feet, in the humbling fenfc of his dreadful difpleafure , we did not madly declaime againft liich , to warn whom, aft.r their rejecting of our brotherly admonition , the Lord did not further require us : We love not to vye with you, or any other, either in ftedfaftnefs in the Covenant, or faitfulnes to the King, in thefe con- fu(ed and calamitous times $ but of this one thing I am moft confident, that his Majefty was more obliged to the Covenant, and thefe who to this day, adhere to it , for the continuance of his remembrance, both with God and men , in the dayes of his Exile, andindifpofingto, and preparing the way of his re- turn ; then to ail the prefent high and falfe pretenders who are not ashamed, in their Mattering impudence, to averre, that the moft notorious and bale aftsof Compliance , whereof they were then guilty, were ye: 220 The fourth Dialogue yec the effects ofa pure and conltanc royalty : As for the thundering , you fay , was in your Pulpits , again ft yourcourfey before are ttrere Jilenced , and is at this day in our Con~jenticl.es : is it not enough, thacyou mock at the warnings of the Lord-; Servants, whom for no other caufe , then true Zeal for God, and tender Love to your Souls, and juft indignation u your fin, you have beaten and expelled * but you mull alfo thereto add falshood , la your alledgeance ancnt what you call Conventicles , and infolent lnfuiting over our undeni- able short-corning, in due admonition , after his Ma- jefties Reftitution ; w hereunto an exceffiye dellre , by faircnefs and moderation , to ftop the precipitant cur- rent of your latedefection, did too generally tempt us, before we were ejected : but the Lord hears , and re- gards :' You tell us , in the next place , That the Tyrantfs cruelty did formerly terrify us , and. now we Pre fume upon the Kjng's elemencie. If I had ever proreifed the hun- dred part of that refpect for Oliver that the Chief of your way did , I would fay , and fay it truely , that what ever he was Titulo , he was no Tyrannm Exerci- tio-y however, Iamfarrefrom justifying the Ufur- pers their practices , or denying altogether his Maje- fties Ciemencie , whereof the indemnity given to the fame Ufurpers doth exhibits fo faire an evidence; but this I muft fay , that as I do wholly impute the with- holding of much of the Kings goodnefs and favour , from us , to the malign influence of the unlucky con- junction of accurfed Prelates , whereby fome even of the great and mod folemn acts of his Maiefties in- tended bountie have been fruftrat anddepraved^fo fuch hath been , and is , the implacable (pice and rigour of their Maiice , and Perfection , that not only it hath furmounted their refentment of the Sectarian inva.- fion -Anfwered. zi\ lion , and made them aienbe all thefe Mifchiefs to us, who were chcii moil cor.ftant Enemies; but by ma- ny degrees exceeded ail the violences , wherewith the tngiijhu > during their Domination among us , can becnart,ed : lr you require a prooij infteador a long condefceiuknce that I might adduce , the cafe of the then Tories m the North , aud late Rjfers in the South, with the reipective meafures, wherewith they have been treated j being impartially pondered and com- pared, is an irrefragable inftance. As to the trip , you mention , o thefe who ceafed , for fear of loft of Stipend, publicly prating jcr the KJ"g > which they had in print •wmd for admit : As at the word you can call it buc a trip , which I think , if not the refpeft you owe to your Arch-matter Sh.rp , who, at that time, not on- ly dtfifted whith others ; bur, as he may remember , did overture it to his Brethren, to pray in publick for the then ProteBor^ yet, the many horrid lapfes whereof, upon fmahei temptations , yours arc guil- ty , mi^ht have made you forbear to mention it, fo, all circumftances being examined , and the practices of the Prophets and People of God inoldymes duely considered , a Prudent correction of an over- zealous alfertion , will be found its more ;uft cenfure. But your N.O adding oyl to vour flame, by tel- ling you, that for cur particular failings , you have re- nounccd all y you go on in your accuiation , and lay- ing afide our private faults, as it our publick alone were more then your indignation can decipher , and exprefsly waving all defign of reflection , that by this fmoothing unguent j you may render the fpears of your envy better pointed, you tell us, That all sou do, is , but to let us fee , we are but as other men $ and not fuch wonders as we would have the world believe ? Sir > though the world knowes , that tkis is but your ac- cufati ^^l The fourth Dialogue cufacion , and not ou. arrogance -} yet J muft add > that fo ftrarigely hath the apoftafie,and wickednefs of yourcourfe prevailed in this Land , tfat a very fmall meafure <>, Faitiulnefs,is enough, without any miracle to make any man both a fign &aWonder:but you pro- ced to tell us ofMonfiruous faults we committed in exac- ting the O.th of the League, over & db'ovzrikat it was a lond ofRebellion.as you hinted in your firfi Dialogue^! have fully there refuted: And as to the NationaU Cove* nant) you fay , it was a cruell impofing upon Consciences 5 to mdkea Ndtit n fweare , what they could not underjland: A man would think that you having turned us from being wonders oL pitty to be Mongers of Cruehv , and after fo high a charge giv n that you were big with fome amazing difcovuy to enfue; but behold the ridtculu' Musmf you made the Nation renounce all the ar- ticles o,poperie , and amohgsl the reft Opus operarurrl a Latine word,and abftrxft conce'xt\with many other nice- ties thatfimple people did not understand: and to mend the j eft? you add, was it not a contradiction, to make them f we are againft Worfip in an m.\nown Tongue , and yet in the Oath, which is an atl ofWorjlvprfo ufe it *. yea> you made them preface this, with a great lve , that it was after full (? mature confederation, of all particulars whereof they were not capable->befide theTvranny of making menfweare in matters, whereof fome were debetabU : &c. Before I enter up«>n this weighty challenge of words: I cannot but note the ingenuity that hath efcaped you: Your Brethren commence our work from the 3 7, and tell us. that we were ralfe pretenders to old foundati- ons -, but you by a plain impugnation of the National Covenant , as it was tirffc contrived ? and fworne , in the 1580. 81. and 90 ; do clearlv intimate, the true confecuentiall extent of your common prejudice and very plainly fignify , that Malignancieand Pope- rie? Anfwcred. 22 J rie, foralltheinduitnous difiemblingofyour Pa very folenniy confirmed} and e- ven by King Charles , in the beginning of the troubles exprefsly ordained to be renewed ; lo prevalent is the malice oi your errour, that all the regard to the pow- ers , whereof at other times you dofovainh boaft, doth not here in the leaft reftrain you from ftaging thefe two Kings with us? as Monftruous impojers ♦ But to the objection ltlelf, 'Tisanfwercd ,/rr/ir,thatit is indeed a cruell impoling upon Confcience, to make a Nation 1 weare an Oath, they could not under- ftand i but do you think that becaufe opus operatum is a Latine word , that therefore the people, who , un- der Poperie, had been too much acquainted with Latine termes andpbrafes, and at the firft breaking up of the light of Reformation amongft us , had of- ten, bothin private and Publick , heard the Popish errors of Juftification by works , Opus operatum-, &c. fully explained and refuted , neither did , nor could underftand its meaning f Or becaufe to you , the opi- nion of Opus operatum , appeares an abjlrufe conceit , and many other Popish tenets , renounced in that Covenant, ieemtobe but niceties: mult they there, fore be fo to all.'3 And was it impoifible for thefe Ser- vants of the Lord , who where imploved in the con- verfionof the Nation , and did at firft tender that Oath, to make the grofsnefs of thefe popish fals. hoods , and of this in particular , though under a La- tine name , fuffkiently plain , even to the meaneft capacities? Certainly, Sir, the veryfimple ones, whom you defpife , do laugh ar the weaknefs of this arguing. 2. As you do not remember > that this Co. venant 224 The fourth Dialogue venant was firft taken , upon the back of cur Refor- mation from Poperie , when all the errors , therein renounced , were recent in mens memories ; fo > you confider not, that thereby we rirftdeclaie, the true Chnftian Religion , to bj that which is revealed to the world 5 by the Preaching of the blefled Evan- gell , and received and belceved ,. by the Kirk of Scotland, &c. And therefore do abhorre, and de- teft , all contrarie Religion and Doctrine $ but chief- ly all kinde or Papiftrie in generall , and particular Heads as they are damned by the word of God , and in fpeciall the Uiiirped Authority of that Roman Antkhri&, <&c , and finally, all his vain Rites , and Traditions, brought into the Kirk, without, ora- gainft the word of God,and Dottrineof this reformed Kirk. Now I would inquire , if thefe general clau- fes , clearly referring to the word of God, as the only binding rule of Truth , may not be lawfully fworn to ., without a diftinct knowledge of all the Particulars, that poilibly may therein be included? And if the condefcending upon Particulars 5 doth import any thing more , then our fincere profellion , that we judge the fame to be comprifed under the ge- nerall Rule , and therefore as fuch , do renounce them: feing then, that this enumeration , when o- mitted, doth not invalidate; and when exprefled , doth require rather a (incere acknowledgement , then adilucide and through knowledge \ your arguing a- gainft it, from the poffibility , nay even from the probability of an incident miftake , while in the mean time the perfwaiion of the truth of the blelTed Cofpel , as the regulating Rule, is held firme and fure; is nothing folid nor concl udent : butbecaufe the two Latine words , 'Opusoperatum* are the-great ground of your quiblmg, I fuppofe that the Oath, after the pofitive Anfwered. n$ poficive part > and generall abjuration of Papiitrie , had only begun toenumerate particulars , thus , [and infpecial, the ufurped authority of that Roman lAtai* tbriftta\l his tyrannous Laws,] and in place of the reft, had given us a faire etcetera: certainly as the premifed, and fubjoyned qualification o£t\\\s >uft ground of fcruple -} yet upon the account of the Latine, was never quarrelled , by either Man or Woman. But you fay it was a contradiction , to make them Jtvtare again ft PVorjhip in an unknown Tongue ', and vet in that very Oath fo to ufe it : A wittie knack indeed ; ifyou were asguing with the Apoftle, againft wor- ship in a ftrange language, becaufe the unlearned can- not thereto fay ^Amen , would you not account this reply , vi^. that it is a contradiction , to bring an ar- gument from the unlearned , not being in cafe to af- lent to a ftrange Language , when that very affent is, as to us, fo exprdlcd, abfurd and ridiculous ? Why then doth this vain fubtilty fo pitifully delude you ? And why do you not advert , that a Tongue in general may be unknown , and yet , many of its words and phrafes , not only transferred to our Vul- gar with a futeable accommodation (as is manifeftin all our fpeech) but alio fimply borrowed, and by cuftome rendered to all figniticant i Sekig therefore , it is the Tongue, as unknown, and not as Latine, Greek? orthelike> that is the ground of the abjura^ 22 o i ne tourcn uiaiogue tion,againft Worship in an unknown Tongue; and yet in that fame Oath to ufcaword from ie> of a known fignification > is no contradiction. Next you ad d , That we made the people preface this Oath with a great lye , of full and mature consideration of all particulars , whereof we neverthelefs knew thty were not capable : but why do you in fixing lyes upon others, impinge fo manifeftly your felf/5 The Co- venant doth only preface > Longand due examination of our own Conferences , in matters of true and falfe Reli~ gion : as to your mature and full confederation of all par- ticulars , it beares nothing: 2. As every Oath is to be made in Truth, Fjghteoufnes, and Judgement \ fo? cer- tainly , the examination mentioned, is both every ones capacity, and duties and no doubt, in all times, when this Oath was taken, was not only recommen- ded , but fufficiently warned of , inftru&ed , and promoved by t hefe faithful men , by whom it was adminiftrate ; but 3. Think you it fo hard a matter , for any perfon ferious in matters of Religion, according to the truth revealed in Scripture > to be able from mature confederation t to rejedl all thefe vain Popish Inventions , and Superfti- tions , enumerate in this Covenant ; whereof , as there are a great many that, without any curious fcru- tiny into their nature , meerely for want of warrants and through Scripture-filence , come to be renoun- ced ; fo, infpecial, the conceit of, opus operatum, being contrary to the very lite and fpirituality of Religion , muft to every one , who knows that God requires the heart , and is to be ferved and worshiped in Spirit and in Truth, certainly appear to be moll deteftable.? Sir, your fcrupulcus doubting and min* cing in thefe matters , do fadly intimate a greater mcafurc.of unfoundnefs, then I am willing to ex- • ' prefs: Anfwered. 227 prefs: But you tell us , that many of the things fnome again]} > arc dijput able ; Pray > Sir, tell us which, tnacyou may be known ? There arc now nmtie years fince they were all abjured , as Popish Errors and Superftitions, without the lcaft dou'it in the con- trary by any Protectant among us: h you judge other- wayes , it were better you were known , by a con- defcendence , then by your generall and fubdolous hints , left to render mens mindes unftable. But you plead only charity and think it hard , that no man may be of our communion, except he be of our opinion in all things : Sir , this is a groundlefs accufation , feing it is futficienrly plain , that , whatever tendernefs we are to exercife toward fuch , as in points iefs mate- riall , do modeftly dife from us ; yet this Cove- nant , being entered into , in obedience to that com- mand j Come out of her ("that is Babylon) my people* that ye be not partakers of her fins : and be ye feparate faith the Lord: and touch not the unclean thing : the to- call abjuration of Poperie, as oppofite to the blefTed Evangell , the fumme and end of this Oath , doth not in the leaft interfere , with that Chriftian forb.arance, which perfonsofthe fame communion 3 are mutually to shew > in matters doubtfull and of Iefs moment : And where you compare this Covenant) for rigor, tothebloudy and cruell conjuration of Trent, thereby interminis renounced , it is 'oo plain > that sour turn- ing of the adequate extent of a juft and neceffary op- position, defigned by this Covenant) to that wicked & impious Bond-, to be a ground of an invidious likcnefs> is only a demonftrationofyour calumnieand malice. Having thus vindicate the Nationall Covenant , as it was firft taken , I shall only put you in minde, that the renewing thereof , in the r6;8. and making the people to ftand to it, is fo confonant to Reafon an4 P Z Scrip- %i% The fourth Dialogue Scripture-practice , that it needeth not my Patrociny* But you lay , it was a great trepans to make the Nation fweare it in the 38. and then bv an ajter-gameto declare that Epiicopacie was abjured in it. I might tell you tha: your fo frequent ufe of the termes of Art , do not alirtieinflnuate, how expert a Jugleryouare, in the matter of Oaths: But it is anfwered , the Nation Avore it in the 1638. in the fame termes wherein it was firft taken , in the year 159 1 ; but becaufe chat fome doubts, whether the Innovations of Prelacies and the Perth ^Articles , thereafter introduced , were by this Oath condemned \ Notwithstanding that its obvious meaning doth abundantly import th« fame , both in the particular abjuration , o'f the Popes corrupt Doctrine , anent the nature , number, and ufe of the holy Sacraments, his unwarrantable dedication of Dayes , and his worldly Monarchic and wicked Hierarchie -> and alfo in the generall de- teftation , which it contains, of all Rites, and Tra- ditions , brought into the Kirk , without , or againft the word of God; And that the generality of the Godly in the Land did fo underftand it \ yet , fuch was the tendernefs then ufed, that the practice was on- ly at firft agreed to be forborn, and the determination of the Queftion , for the gaining of the doubtfull and refractory , referred to a lawfull AfTembly. Now* if this AfTembly, in the light of the reafons, already touched 5 and others mentioned in their Act, did clear- ly determine this matter , and the Covenant was thereafter taken, with an agreeable Declaration,where can you fixe vour challenge ? To alledge, after an Oath is taken, that to be thereby abjured, which doth no where appear in it , is certainly , as falfe , as the te/mes you ufe are fcurrilous ; but to declare from un- deniable grounds 3 thsfe things to be contained , in a prior Anfwered. 229 prior Oath, which only the temptation, and dark- nefTe, of an after-defection did make to be question- ed; is nothing els then a juft vindication and appli- cation , requiiite to a faithfull^purfuance, and whereof the inftance of Na/^ra/W? his renewing Covenant with God 5 with a more large declaration of the manner of the Sabbaths obfervance, then is to be found in the Law , is an undeniable warrant. But reafon failing , your paifion and big words muft be made ufe of , to fupply that defect : for you fay > what violence did we ufe , to oblige all to bow to th'is Idole i Church-men refufiiig were defofed * yea both they and Lay-men alfo excommunic.it. Tis jnAyercd , A faithful! , and zealous profecution , of the Lords Oath, from the Confcience of his holy jealoufie, is onlythejuft and laudable effect of his fear, and no wayes to make it an Idol : But feing you love fuch expreilions, to fweare and forfweare , as yourpartic hath done , without either conftancie or repentance > is certainly to make an Idol not of the Covenant on- ly; but of the Great God thereto invocked, who in- ' fallibly will one day avenge it : As for the Cenfures you fpeak of, if the pertidie of that refufall , with the other tranfgreillons and delinquencies, whereof, the perfons particularly cenfured , were , for the moll part if not all , notorioufly known and found to be guilty , be duely pondered 3 they will rather be found to fall short of , then exceed the proportions of righ- teoufhefs : And though I deny not , but the heats , prejudices, and other temptations, inevitable, in fuch changes , to humane infirmity , may pollibly have rendered the lot of fome few (andthefe very few ) recuiants (rather obftinate then maiitious) a lit- tle hard and apparently rigid ; yet, this is moft ob- vious ? that the late revolution , hath fo infinitly ex. J 3 ceeded, 23 o The fourth Dialogue ceeded ? not only for iniquity $ but alio in the mea- fure of its opprdfions , all the exceffes chargeable on former times j that nothing lefs then an impudence, futable to the late perjury, could prompt you, or any of your partie , to move fuch an objection : but let us hear your conclufion : What man of common fenfe can thinly this the. Caufeof God, which had fuch monjimom er yours in its fir ft conception ? Sir , though I think that in the matters of God , you do ap- peal to an ill Judge : yet I am fo little diffident of the caufe, which I maintain, that only wishing you to be morefparing , in obtruding your own ridiculous delulions for monftruous errours, I heartily referre our difcourfe 3 to my greateft Oppofite. . In the next place , making a ftep of your N C. weak and groundlefs conceilion, That there were faults in the impofing of the Covenant 5 and taking it up at your own hand, That themnters of the Covenant are in them* j elves indifferent': you go on to argue, that feing in thefe things , a man is not his own Mafier ; but by tbe command of God obliged to obey the Magiftrat ? in all things lawfull , a tye before all Oaths $ as by no aEl of ours, weCanbebdundtobreahjheCcmmandofGody fo 7to mire can we oblige our f elves to do any thing > in pre- judice o; another s right , our Soveraipn's Authority, and therefore > fince the Kjng and Parliament , have by Law annulled the Covenant , and required fubmifion to Epif~ copacie , our antecedent Oath > a voluntary deed of our ewn 3 can no longer bind us 3 againft the commands of the Powers-, which are the mediate commands of God. I have fet down this argument of yours more fully ? to the effect j vou may perceive , that if I have not fo much of your common fenfe , as to comprehend it , as a clear •demonftration; yet it is not for want of a juft and true apprehenfion j but really from the greater evi- dence Anfwered. i$ i dence of the anfweres fub/omed : and firft, I fay, your foundation fails , the matters of the Covenant are not things indifferent ^ but in themfelves true , righteous, and holy, importing fuch an antecedent obligation, as, in the occurrence of the preexiftent circumftances , did render the taking and requiring of that Oath , an indifpeniable dude: And this when you think good to quarrell , I am mod ready to make out. 2* Suppofing with you , that the matter of the Covenant is indifferent , and that in fuch things , the Magiftrats power of commanding cannot, by any Oath or deed of ours, be prevented or prelimitcd ; yet, Sir, think you, that your Omiflion, muft fo farre charme us to oblivion , as to make us forget , that as King Charles the firft , did in plene Parliament, An. 1641. under his hand-writing , ratifie theKa- tionall Covenant , with the explication , and Bond thereto annexed , and prior Acts made anent it , with fuch folemnities and concurrent confideraticns , as ic isimpoflible toqueftionit -3 fo, his Son, who now Reigns , did , in the year 1 650. and 51. take and con- firme both it and the Solemn League and Covenant, with fuch Oaths, Subfcriptions , (as well private and unrequired , as publickj Declarations and Ails, that greater grounds of aflurance , were never heard of, amongft men ; ifthen this was the cafe of the obli- gation of thefe Covenants , at his Majefties returne (admitting all that you fuppofe) dareyou, or any fay, that the King and Parliament had power, ei- ther to refile , or to loofe others , from the Bonds , which they themfelves had thus eftablished ? If a Fathers filence, andnon-contradi&ion, to a Daugh- ters vowing, and whofe vowes he may diiannull, do make her vowes to ftand ; fo that he cannot there- after make them void ; how can the exprefs , folemn, P 4 and 23? The fourth Dialogue and fworne confirmation of King and parliament,' in favours of a Covenanting people , with any colour of reafon , be thought to be either , in it felf ambu* latory , or toward others lefs effectual ♦ But 3 to un- deceive you , of the vain elfeem you have for this ar- gument , the very grounds of it , are manifeftly falla- cious: For, granting that , in things indifferent, we are by the command of God obliged to obey the Ma- giilrat -, yet this Objection is nothing foabfolute, as is requisite to the inferring of your conclufion: viz. th at therefore he hath fuch a right , as no antecedent deed, or Oath of ours , cahftahd in the cafe of a fubfequent an* nuUingcommand : But , the folid principles whereby this matter is clearly refolved are 1. That, as the JVlagiftrat is veiled from above with power , requilitc and proportional to the ends of Government, where* unto he is appointed ; fo fuch is his right by virtue thereof, that no Subject can either decline his lawful Commands , or yet bind himfelf in all events , by any luch antecedent Oath or other deed , as , being incon- fiftent with the condition of a Subject , may fall to interfere with a fupervenient rational command : for example, fitting, Handing , walking , are certainly . things indifferent , and in a manspoiver ; if then , in theie things , a man should bind himfelf, by an Oath, as never to ftirre from luch a place, or walk without certain bounds , though, without queftion, the man left to his own liberty be rather to obferve his Oath * yet it is as little to be doubted , that in opposition to 5 or for exemption from the Magiftrat's lawful and ra- tional command, it could neither be binding, nor rele- vantly alledged: I fay , Rational Command, becaufel 2in of the opinion , that if the Magiftrat , without any neceility , should for meer orientation of his power , command the perfon contrary to his Vow > o* Anfwered. 253 on purpofe to make it void -y fuch an injunction would be both finful in the Magiltrat , and no liberation to the poor Votarie. The 2 principle , I lay down is , That, as the Magiftrat's lawful power doth indeed grant him a large right over a mans liberty , in manner jult now explained j fo it is mod certain, that there are many things , ftill left to himfelf , and at hi. own free difpole ■> wherein he may freely vow, and having vowed , muft not break his word \ but do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth > and which are plainly of that nature, that the Magiftrat's coun- termand would be only anacceilion , and noexcufe co a breach : I need not adduce examples > every palTage of our life , doth obvioufly exhibite them : if a man vow the Tenth of his fubftance to the Lord, it is evident , that the Magiftrat's power cannot difcharge the performance : and the Lord's expielTe and weil- cautioned conceflion of this dillolving power, only to a Husband over his Wife, and a father over his. Daughter infamilia , and that by way oi exceptor , to the general command , whereby all other free Vowes and Bonds are ratified , is fuch a confirmation, and extenfion of the Rules , to the cafe in hand , as admits no evallon? Bur to give you entire fatiffaclion in this point , the fumme is , firft , That God hath beftowed upon men a faire liberty , futed to their dignity : Next,He hath alio ordained the Powers, and cloathed them with authority and right, rcquifiteto the ends of their appointment ; whereof the preler- vation of our juft liberties , is not the meentft: as therefore , by virtue of the former > a man , in re- cognizance of the Lord's bountie, fo farre as his li- berty is not reftrained , either by alawfull command, or by a vifible inconliftencie of the thing vowed to any other dutie , may freely vowe , and ought to per- P 5 forme j &H The fourth Dialogue forme ; fo all the effeft of the latter , is only to make void fuch vowes , as aredire&ly , or defignedly made to fruftrateits right ; and to fufpend the execution of others , in fo farre as the famine doth eventually crofs its lawful exerciie : if you had perpended thefe things, you would not have obtruded on us , fuch a raw dif- courfe, for a clear demonstration : the Magift rat hath right to command, and, it is the will of God that we obey him> in all things lawful; and this tye is before all voluntary Oaths: but, doth it therefore fo fwallowupour Liberty, that it leaves a man no power in the fame things , to binde himfelf by a vow, unto the Lord i or may the Magiftrat annul, and make void the fame , at his pleafure? I am certain, your own Comnonfenfe tells you , thefe things are too laxe> and liable to another regulation. No aft of ours can indeed oblige us to do any thing in prejudice of an- others right , neither can any Covenant binde to deny obedience to the Kings juftLaws:but as I have already told you , that the Magiftrat hath no fuch right, as doth wholly evacuate our liberty , and leave us no power in things indifferent, of binding our Souls by an Oath to the Lord : and that the outmoft extent of his power, in thefe things , is only to make void the Vow , or reftrain the execution , which is incon- fiftent with his Government , or doth check its law- ful exercife : So I allow no fuch Covenant as bindeth dire&ly to deny lawful obedience ; but fuch a Cove- nant, fuch a Vow, fuch an Oath, yeafuchaPro- mife , as being freely taken , without any direft or defigned inconfiftencie to the Magiftrat 's lawful power, and whereof the performance doth not even- tually thwart any of his rational commands , I affirme to be fo binding , that it is neither in the Prince his power , at his Pleafure , to diuoive it $ nor can a fuper. Anfwered. ' 235 fuperv enient Law enacted , exprefsly for that purpofe, make void its obligation : And this is the true and plain account? ot the nature and obligation? both of Vows and Laws , which while you , in your defign to exalt the power of the late A&s , above the Bond of the Covenant, do fo iniquoufly ballance, as to make laws, the mediate commands oj God, and Oaths > only our own voluntarie dads , to which we are not bowed , by any Divine precept -> you grofsly forget, that he who hath commanded Rulers to be obeyed in all things, committed to their trnft , hath , on the other hand > not only ratified the Subjects their referved liberty , but alfo, by his own fan&ion, confirmed all the Vowes , and Oaths , that by virtue thereof, they do freely make : whereby it is moft manifeft , that as the obligation , and binding virtue of Lawes and Vowes, is coordinate, and not fubordinate ; fo, no* more can an arbitrary after-law diflblve our Vowes , at rirft freely and lawfully made , then our voluntary prior Oaths can impaire or prejudge the Magiftrat's righteous Power , and Edicts, As for the application of thefe things , to the cafe in hand , w{« whether the Covenant , being once fworne , in matters at prefent fuppofed to be indifferent, the Magiftrat could thereafter, by an after-act, render the matter un- lawful, and fo make the obligation to ceafe ? It is very eafie to expede : for , feing all the laws which you plead for its diflfolution , and fubmiffion to Epif- copacie , are fuch as do moft arbitrarily condemn it , without the leaft conviction to any ferious perlbn , of the unlawfulnefs of our entering into that Oath, either from its matter , orinconfiftencie with Government , and its righteous ends ; it is evident, that to admit fuch as fuflkient to make it void , were to deitroy all liberty , and render men in every Oath ? how free and vo- I 1$ The fourth Dialogue voluntary foever , obnoxious to the Magiftrat's aM folute control j and plainly to ranverfe both the free- dom of making , and neceffity of keeping all vowes ; which neverthelefs the Lord hath mod exprefsly al- lowed, and confirmed. Sir, as I have , with you, fuppofed the matters of the Covenant to be in them-! ielves indifferent 5 and taken this pains for no other end > then to re&ifie your Common fenfe , and refell your pretended Demonftration , not withstanding of fo faire a conceiiion ; fo , give me leave again to re- member you ? and all concerned , that , feing the matters in thefe Covenants, were antecedently true and right ;ous, and are now concluded under the great Oath or God > your pitiful quibling , upon the Kings power in matters free and indifferent , is fo far from Jicfcnfing us to the leaft violation, thac, though we do further unanfwerabiy ailedge his Majefties Super- venient ratification j yet it is more for your redargu- tion, then our ovn confirmation , whofe Confciences are , by the former ground , molt fatisfyingly efta- blished : And here I might put a period to my reflec- tions, on this DialgW) feing, that what remaines doth nothing convel thefe fure grounds , whereupon we are founded ; but becaufe , in purfuance of your conceit of the Magiftrats power , of rendering the matter of Vo wes , antecedently free , unlawful; and thereby making their obligation to ceafe , you, in re- turne to the Queftion > What could move the Kjng to preferre Epifcopacie to Presbyteries pretend to many ftrong induttives , whereby you fuppofe the change to be undeniably authorized : This calumny muft alio be removed. And before J enter upon this matter, I cannot but commend your providence, who , fear- ing that your allegations would be found falfe, do prudently provide a refuge, in the profound and re- clufc Anfwered 2.37 «lufc deepth of Princes their fecrets > which you think should put a flop to the inquirie : which indeed neither you , nor all men befide , are able to anfwere ; but as the ftrange wicked nefs and folly of this Aft is fuch, as all the devices imaginable cannot fo much as ver- nish it , with any apparent colour, and its confe- quences have been fo pernicious , as have left no Sub- ject in the Nations unconcerned in their fmarc ; fo> I hope, without the imputation of a mutinous curiopty, 1 may take the liberty to tell you , that it was not our. Leaders, which occafioned the work, you hintat,- to the King's Grand-father, his Father, and Him- felf; *Art thou he that troubleth Ifrael ? is an old and royall accufation of the Lord's Minifters : \ wish the anfwer now a dayes , were as improper , as I am tender to ufe it : we have not troubled IfraeU but thou and thy Fathers houfe , in that ye haveforfaken the command* merits of the Lord) and thou ha fl followed thv own in* mentions : I need not put you in minde of K. James his engagements to defend the Gofpel , and maintain the true and pure Ordinances and Difcipline of God's houfe , and how he thereafter turned , and corrupted his way, by no lefs then a direct invafion of Chrift's Throne , manifeft perverfion of his Ordinances , de- figned fubjeftion of the liberty of the Gofpel and its Jvliniftery, to his luit and pleafiire, and open perfe- ction of many faithful Minifters and Profeilburs ; Thefe things , \f you were ingenuous , you should rather have eflayed to anfwere , as bang already ob- jected and proven by others , then provoked me to the repetition: As to what you obje&c, from latter times, I am forry that by fo rude and falfe an accufation , vis(. You involved the Nations in bloud , and not fatufyed with all the fecurity you could demand \ vc« engaged with the Kjng lm Emmies in England : and oppofed the fcfign of %%% The fourth Dialogue hjs deliverk An, 16485 you should engage mc to re- flect upon a worthy , but abufed , Prince , all whole faults I think both may, and ought to be buried under his mif- fortune $ but feing this you will not fuffer , I shall only defire you and others toconfider thefe fad grievances, which are elfwhere undeniably cleared vi$ 1. The Prelatick Tyranny and impofitions of thefe times. 2. The rage and fury wherewith they endeavoured to inflame and ftirre up all againft this Kingdome , after that they had firft conftrained us to juil defence. 3 .Their notorious and reiterate perfidies, whereby rhey rendered all fecuritie defperate : And laftly the fin of that backsliding courfe 48. now fo evidently unmasked , by the 9 Aft of the late Par- liament, 1 66 1 which, inftead of delivering , didvi- fibly precipitate his Majeftie's fad fate : thefe things are fo manifeft , even from the publick Records of the Nation, that I can not but admire the efTron- terie of your confidence > that can fo overly pafs them- But you add a Queftion , In a word > what jtaloujles hadyoujuftly raifed in the hearts of Princes , of your Go- vernment f Sir, I wish you had deigned your felf with another word of anjfwere- for really I know none, except thefe old and endlefs ones , the temptation , and fin of all worldly Powers, againft the Lord and his Anointed. As for our Tyranny 1649. againft the jNobility , you should firft have anfwered for their breach of truft, 1648: But fince they themfelves have publickly,by the Ac~t above mentioned , avowed It ; your charge of Tyranny againft the moderately disproportionate cenfures , then infli&ed , merites no aufwere. In the laft place , you fay : our Minifters divided Jhamefuliy among themfdves , I grant > and Bnfullv alfo, though Anfwcred. 239 though that all engaged were not equally guilty , and this was a great mall -} but (ince , that an excefs of charity toward your party , on the one hand , and a founder judgement of your principles or rather loofe- nefs , on the other, was the only caufeof the diffe- rence , is it not invidious in jou , not only to have disappointed your favourers \ but to taxe the greater number , whom you have fince fo fully juftilied, as men of maximes incompatible with Government; Sir, this is the fumme of the ac; count , you make us > of the reafons of his Majeftiqs change , with what evidence , the Reader and not you, muft judge ? ifhemifs your Sim in its Meri- dian , and rinde your light to be but darknefs , a more fimple eye and heart , may be both his fatisfac- tion and your remedy : If I might enlarge in a more full returne, I could eafily dernonftrate , that , all things being confidered , both before , at , and fince, the Kings reftauration , his adhering to the Covenant, and owning that intereft , had been not only his fafety and peace ; but his molt certain eftablishment and Glory : if the favour and countenance of the moll High , the firme love and loyalty of all good men , and the undoubtedly equal compliance and fubmif- lion of the other parties , may be fit media , in fuch an argument j the conclufion is obvious : But left you fay j art thou made of the Kings CounceK Forbear; leaving events to God I shall be filent. Having all along endeavoured to hurne , in the clofe of this Dialogue , you go about to blowe us : I am not for triffling with you , in fuch unlincere and mixed Complements : the Lord pur^e both you and us from all drofs , and reflorc to the Land Truth and Purity, and then shall we certainly enjey Peace and Unity. As 140 The IV Dialogue anfwered. As for the liberty you taxe in our difcourfes , and writings , I hope no right difcerner , will finde it to be an inveBive ; but the native, genuine , and well- becoming freedom of Truth and Uprightnefs: whether the licenfe that you ufurp , in your pretended juftirications of the King , the Laws , and your Con- ferences , be indeed uncharitable , bitter and mali- cious , J neither fay nor judge ; he whofe glory is concerned he alfojudgeth: But for the allowance of your defence by Tongue and Pen , which you would appear to plead , from our afTerting of defenfive ,armes \ you cannot be fo ferious in the demand* as I am free to accord it ; feing I am perfwaded > that if the defenfive armes , which we maintain , were no better warranted , and as little to be feared > as the felf-defence , which you pretend > neither you > nor any other , would have accounted them & be worthy of the oppofing. The The fifth DIALOGUE Anfwercd. Sf R , Neither envying you that poor ap- plaufe j which you vainly captate , from vour Mock- Non. C. confefling himfelt to be by you much foakjn in the matter of Bijh" ops , nor regarding the pitiful fcorne , you would caft on us by making him , or your felf rather , ridiculous in avowing a blind averfatton > notwith- ftandingof his proreiled conviction , [ come toconli- der his quarrel againft the Bishops on the account of your Common-prayer book , andwhatyou anfwere. Your N. C- alledges That this Common-praver-bool^ it a dead and formal L\turgie > fet up inftead of the pure and Spiritual worflvp of God : In anfwere whereunto » pretending as vainly , that thefe are but bi% words , as I have already clearly proved > that the Government which we contend for 3 is the interefl j and doth ap- pertain to the Kjngdom of Cbrifl \ and thereby mani- feftly shewed this your confidence to be meer ca- lumny, you undertake to difcover the fallacy, by celling us what it is to pray by the; Spirit : And you fay , [ T> Pray h the Spirit, is, when out of a deep fnife of our mijerv and yieed ■> and firm confidence in God , we draw near to him , to offer up our pravers and praifes t9 him, through Jefa ChrisJ:~\ And you add ? [That our hearts being moulded in this , rame , we pray bv the Spirit, ttfe we words or not > the fame or different : Nay , it will Q appear 242 The fifth Dialogue appear we are carnal , when we need to have our devotion tickled, and provoked, with new words:] Which def- cription , and the deduction from it , being laid for a ground? exciting your felf, by thefaigned inter* jettions of your N. C. iu'-prifes, at the wit and no- velty of your invention > \_in representing the Liturgie- wotship > ^ Spiritual • and the conceived one , ^car- nal : ] You go one , to difcourfe [o; the differences , be- twixt Jpiritual devotion , and prayer by words , ] the termes , wherein you are pleafed , very groundlefsly, and impertinently , to ftate the diftinction : [ And the former ( you fay ) Iving in the will? and not in thej ancv, and being affetled with the thing > and not with words , can with the newnefs of Ajft&ion ? make the fame prayer in words , though an hundred times repeated , at every return New : ^And, ts aflill, humbling, and melting thing, smdfo equable , that it ps above the jr is king fits of the fancy $ neither doth it require a variety of words • but, in its fublimeft exercifes , can perjifl long, with great fwcet- nefs > in the fimpleft ABs '> whereas , multiplicity doth perhaps lead out the minde , from pure arid flill devotion, interior prayer , and jpiritual converfe with God : On tht other hand (you tell us? that ) prayer by words , lying in the fancy , and its gratifications, by the varying of things into feveral. fhapes , the devotion raifed by fuch Chimes , is only finjible , needing newphrafes , to renew its fervour; and words , and all the heat begot by words , are but a falfe fire , in the natural powers of the Soul , which may heat the brain , drawjorth teares,feem to wring the heart, but amounts to nothing, fave a fenfible fervour 7 and pre fim tickling $ wherein , he that abounds mo ft in Me~ mory , Vancy , El quence, and Confidence , is likely mofl to exceil : ] from all which you conclude , [ that it ex- prefftth a more fpiritud temper , to be able to worflvp God injimfle, and conf ant ¥ arms > and that extemporary prayer* Anfwered. 24$ brJver* cannotbe c.ilud pricing by thcSptrit) exccpt.by Spirit beundvrjiood the Anirna1 or NMur.d fpirits. This I fuppofe is a true account of your rirft floorish*, upon this fubjeft , to what purpole , remaines yet to be inquired And fir ft * I might take notice of the inaccuracy ofyourexprdlion , of praying b\ the Spirit ; whereas the Scripcure-phrale , is , to worship in Spirit. John. 4. 23. FYmiWg i'i the Spirit. Eph. 6. i8- to worlhip in the Spirit , Phil. J . £ 10 prav with the Spirit. I . Cor. 14, 1 ^ . And though the difference be more in words then matter ; yet , as the Scripture.diction is certainly the founder j fo > I am apt to apprehend , that your not adverting to ic , may have in part occafioned your vain and impertinent digrelfon 3 upon pr.i ir.gbv the spirit? and pruning bv Words , as if thefe were by us wholly distinguished , and the latter preferred. 2. I might obferve > that the defcription which you give us o£ Praying by the Spirit , is more futeable to the calme and ferene progrefs of a Chriftians courfe , then to thele doubtings , feares , wreftlings , depre(i"ions,and overwhelmings , fo frequently found ■> in the expe- rience of all , to be thereto incident, which being no lefs removed from , and deftitute of, a firm confi- dence, then the ftaving and aliifting of the Spirit, with groanes that cannot be uttered , Ts therein obfer- vable; your defcription appearesto be narrow, and inadequat : But the plain anfwer , which I returne,is, that as theftatingof the Qu.ftion, is by you wholly neglected ; fo the reafoning , vvherebv you go about to maintain vour lifelefs and fuoerftitious Lhurgie-, is altogether uiconcludent. The controverfie betwixt you and us, anent your Service book is t vofold. 1. Whether the Publick worship of God ought to be aftricted to let and impofed Forms < And 2. Whether Q^Z that 244 The fifth Dialogue that form of Worship, which your Book contains i be not in ic felt in many particulars , unfound and im- pertinent , and confequently not to be received by way of directory , rarre lefs acquiefced unto as a precife injun&ion t That thefe are the two hinges of this de- bate, willeafiely be acknowledged ; but what your above mentioned difcourfe doth contribute to its de- termination , I mull again folicite your fecond thoughts , to render us an account - We have your de- finition of praying by the Spirit ; and we let it pafs. Next you fub join , and that with many empty reite- rations, that prayingin words , fpecially extemporary and various > is fenfiSle , fancical , ajfe&ing and beating the brain in lower minds, and producing only a natural fer- vour ; and that thus it may be , with fuch, who pray in words without the Spirit , was never by us denied; but darreyou , or any man els, not abandoned to utter irreligion , propofe this as your opinion , of all prayer in conceived , and not precontrived and prefcribed words? Do not the very truth of Religion, requiring both heart and mouth ; the reafonablenefs of our fer- vice, confiding in their Harmony; the practice of the Lords people , in all Ages; the frequent examples, every where in Scripture ; the experience of every fe- rious Soul; yea the common reafon of all men , re- dargue the grofs abfurdity of fuch a perfwafion? Were David's rhankfgiving,i Chron.29. ic.Solomon sprayer, T.Kjhg, 8. 25. and Jebofaphat's Supplication,2 Chron. 2.O. 5. ail without Book or Set-form,only extemporary beats f Are the praying Pfalmes , with all the exer- cifes of the Lords Servants , in the Nynths of Eyab , 'Nebemiab, and Daniel, and in other places, clearly flowing 3 as the Sp^nr gave utterance, without any taught frame of words , frisking fits of the Fancy? Was our Lords fraycrjo/;. 17. only a fer.fibU fervour f > y. Sir Anfwered. 24? Sir , I would rather fuppole . that although your airy difcourfe , hath wildly (educed your obfervation ; yec your heart abhorres fuch impiety : J will not there- fore infill on the advantage , which this your laxe in- advertencic fo rairely offereth -3 nor shall I content my felt with this obvious retortion , that where one inftance can be given of conceived Prayer , only ma- naged by Fancie , and fubfifting in its vain exercife , thousands may be found of perfons , through the practice and cuftome ofSet-forms,habituate to a molt lifelefs and fuperftitious mummery, more fuceable to the worshiping of ftockes and ftones , then to the fervice of the true and living God : Nor laftly will I vex you > by shewing , that the diftinction which you make of praying by the Spirit , and bywords, is fo impertinently by you applied, to our prefent purpofe; that though you endeavour thereby , to impugne ex- temporannefs ) multiplicity, and variety of words ^ in Prayer •, yet , it plainly concludes all words to be fuperfluous : for , feing that in oppofuion to the fpi- ritual worship of God , which we contend for , you tell us , that we may prav by the Spirit , life we words or not , and that fpiritual devotion is a ft ill inward thing : Is it not evident , that all outward Forms , whether fee or extemporarie , are thereby rejected t But freely waving thefe your lapfes, that I may come more clofe- ly to the prefent purpofe j it is to be confidered , that the right and true worship of God, is certainly inward in the minde, will, and affections: God whodemand- eth the heart , doth thence expect , that tribute of reverence, love, fear, acknowledgement , and praife , which in his fight is acceptable ; and all other out- ward performances, as they ought to be thefincere exprellions , and (ignirications of this internal devo- tion, fo they are wholly and only regulable > by the CL3 pre- %4$ The fifth Dialogue prefcriptions of Divine appointment* If this trurh were as ferioufly heeded.? (as J am perfwaded it is iixed, and conftant,) both by you and me, our comroverfie would foon be ended : The Queftionchen , is not , concerning the life and truth of internal Prayer, wherein, without doubt, the fphikuality of that exercifedoth principally confift ; but, feing that you and we are agreed , that God whom weferve, is to be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth , the debate is , anent the manner , how this worship, fpecially when Publick, is to be performed? Whether in let and impo ed Forms; or as the Spirit giveth utterance? Or if , for preventing mi (lakes , you pleafe to take it at greater length -} whether it be lawtul for men , to compofe and impole Set -forms for Prayer 3 and Worship , and thereto to allrict the People of God , in their performances t Or, whether it be more agree- able to tae will andfervice of God ? that prayer and worship > which are to be performed inwardly? in the liberty and truth of the Spirit and underihndbng , in their outward expretlion , be left to be managed , by the free and fanftified u'e of the rational raculty , for that end given ■> aud in many obfervably gifted i By which ftate , as you may eafily perceive that J do allow j not only the antecedent improvement of the exprellive power > by ajl warrantable aides and advan- tages ; but alfo the free ufing , upon occafion , of fiich vvords ? as others have formerly, either dictated, or 113 ade .ufe of: Nay even in fane cafes of feveral of your Set forms $ both which I conceive are very con- Jaitent with praying by the Spirit , either as by vou or by us defined: So. the precife point controverted, and to which I would have you all along to advert, is anent the impofing , and afflicting , which I plain- ly judge to be both deftitute of Divine warrant > and con- Anfvvered. r\f contrary to the liberty of fpintual devotion •, and ib repugnant,in both qualities, to that Worship in Spirit and Truth , which only is acceptable. But before I proceed to a confirmation , there qccurre fome mif- takes to be removed : one is , of fome of your way > who , defining praying by the Spirit , the uttering of fuch petitions , as are immediatly fuggefted , both matter and words , by the Holy Ghoft , hold it for a Gift proper to the Apoftles, and their times > and now ceafed : thus the Englifn Debate* , and your own headlefsallegeance , that extempcraric Prayer cannot be called braving hv the Spirit , unlefs we alfo call it injallim ble , doth alio coincide: But? feingbyyoui delcrip- tion , above mentioned > you do allow of praying by the Spirit, as not yet ceafed, and do thereby very juftly underftand, rather the Grace-, then the Gift of Prayer ; although even the Gift, where k is (as it may be) without the Grace, may alfo have the name of pray ing by the Spirit ; and feing that both the Debater , and you, ifuppofe, would be offended > if any should affirme , that no man u(ing the Service-book-forms , could pray by the Spirit, I only add , that as the Spirit is th- great promife of the Gofpel , its Grace, the life, and its Gifts , the ftrength of all Chriftian duties ; fo, praying by or in the Spirit, can no more be impugned, for want of infallibility , then any other good work, of the fame Spirit in us denied, for want of perfection: But who would not pitie two Doctors of the Church, either fo difingenuous , or unable, as not to diftinguish , betwixt the Spirits ordinary mea- fures, and extraordinary aililtances. The next miftake is, that reflecting upon the greater exactnefs of phrafe, attainable in a Set-form , above what can be expected in an extern porarie work ; and commending the pro- priety, cor^cmnenefs and gravity, that may be in Q_4 the 24S The fifth Dialogue the former, in relpeft of that rudeaets , incohefionS and levity , fuppofed to be incident to the latter, you exaggerate the companion . as if the whole ftrefs of the debate , did iy in this point , whereas he that ekiely confide eth , will not only finde your Forms , at beft to be but humane and imperfect > and that the Gift of Prayer promifed , if duely improved , in and with the exercife of the Grace , is , farre more likely > to furnish found , favory and acceptable words ; then thefe jejune and lifelefs compofures \ for framing and enjoining whereof? men have no promife of the Lords ailiftance : And iaftly , that the whole word of God, and the excellent patterns therein recorded , with many other helps , are at hand, and allowed by us, by way of Directory -3 but he muft alio grant , that it is not our choife, but the Lords own prefcription* which he doth accept : Suppofe your Forms were as much better , then our conceptions , as a Mans Firft- born , is preferable to the beaft of the field \ yet , if not required , they cannot come up with acceptance on his Altar: and therefore , I conclude, that how- ever the fincere Ufers may finde grace in his fight ; yet the peremptory I mpofers, cannot be innocent. A third miftake , is , that becaufe in the ufe of certain 'Set-forms, a man may poffibly pray , with deep fpi- ritud impretfions, and high elevations : Nay the fublim* eft a&s of communion with God , may be expreffed in the fvmplef Forms yfuch asjThou art my God ; therefore you conclude, that finted Forms , are more futed to true f pi ritual devotion , then the multiplicity and variety of words , in an extemporarie exercife , which do lead out , and do too frequently only excite aphantafiicl^ tranfient phafurc , almoft evani thing with the found, wherewith they are pronounced : But feing , that the variablcnefs of the condition of a militant Viator can hardly be de- fined 3 Anfvvered. 249 fined , much lefs the free actings of the Spirit, in iucli exigences, confined to any pfefcribed Forms, and that the more Scraphick raptures ot Divine contem- plation , do therefore fubfiit in few and piain words , because above the reach of exprellion ; it is undoubt- edly certain, thac neither the right ufe-makirg , or rather agrecablenels or certain forms to very iincere and Jenous devotion > nor the fimplicitieor words, ufed in the neareftadmiifion of heavenly fellowship , do at all remove the unwarrantablenefs and inconve- niencie of thereftraint ot Set forms, when under the neceflity of animpofition. As for what is infinuateof thele faneical heats and pleafures , wherewith words, ex tempore , may poifibly delude « u is only an acci- dental inconvenience, from our corruption , and by the faults of \ our impofed Forms , inhnitly overba- lanced, as I have already shewed. Thele things > being thus cleared : for confirming of my aiTertion > againft your (tinted , and impofed Forms , 1 hyfirft, Thatthefeimpofitions are peccant againft the Truth of Gods worship ; becaufe the famine requires lis own exprefs warrant, and prefcript: It is in vain to worship after thecommandements of men \ the fer- vice which he requireth not, he abhorreth; Will- worship is an abomination : But fuch is your impofed and commanded Liturgie : if now, what doth the Lord require ? ought to be the ferious reflection of every one , that draweth near unto him $ if, in all things commanded , we ought to be circumfpecl , without adding to, or diminishing ought irom it \ If the Lord did moft exactly define the manner , and every rife and ceremony of the legal Sacrifices and fer- \icc-i yea every pin of the Tabernacle, with the whole contrivance and orders of the fucceeding Temple ; if (Irange fire > made ufe of even in an offering to God, 0-5 be z$o The fifth Dialogue be fo feverely vindicat -y and the ere&ing of another Alcar, th-'n he had appointed, even for his Sacrifices, what can we conclude , concerning your impofed Forms and the manner of that fervice, which you fo arbitrarily enjoin i That they are of farre greater moment in his Worship , then many of thefe things , about which we fee , his holy jealou fie to be fo atten- tively converfant? common&nfe doth evince: how then can they be receaved without his warrant, with- out which, ail humane devi tings are reje&ed i Say not , that the rigor of this ftri&nes was a part of the old legall bondage: for granting that it may be fa, as to the particular manner of that difpenfation ; yet you are fo farre from being thereby helped , that , as i have formerly shewed that the burthen of the things , by you impofed , ftands manifeftly convicted by our Gofpel-liberty ; fo, the immoveable princi- ple , that , in his Worship , his own prefcription is thealone warrant of acceptable performance, doth equally redargue the preemption of your impofing, in whatfomever model , without his Command. But it may be objected , that, feing our extemporarie Pray- ers , are as well a part of Divine Worship , as your Hinted Forms, and that as to the frame of the words, the former can no more, yea rather lefs , then the la- teiv pretend to a congruity to the word and will of God, the argument from the unlawfulnefs of Will- Worship , doth militat more againft us , then you : 'Tis anfwered, If the queftion in this matter were only whether Set-forms , or extemporarie ftraines , may poiiibly be compofed with the greater confonancie , in words, unto Scriprute-phrafe , the objection might have fome , (though in refpeCt of what I have already touched of the promifed gift of Prayer very little), weight; but feing our delate runs clearly , concer- ning AnfvrerecU 251 uing the manner , how the uuc and Spiritual Wor- ship of God is to be externally performed ; If the Lord , whole alone it is to prefci ibe in this matter , hath tna juft congi uity to the liberty of his o wnSpii it, left it tothenght and fanctified uie of the rational ex- preinveiaculue , and the due improvement of thefe helps and piomifes , wherewith he hath mftru&ed us; for man vainly to arrogat a better contrivance , in his deviled impulsions , is an intolerable prcfumption; and theiefore , though the conceived , as well as the ftinted Prayer , be a part of Gods Worship : Nay , though this , as we.'l as the other , fiagly and fincere- lv tiled, may be accepted; yet icing the Lord hath allowed the liberty oi the former, and doth not at all requhe the obligation of the latter, the impoling thereof muft , of neceflity , be repute and caft , zs an humane invention. J need not Hay to refume , that conceived Prayer , for the rcafops above mentioned, andime'pcctOi the promifed gilt , and ailiftance of the Spirit j whereof the compofing and commanding of Set-forms is deftitute , may probabliebe, and is often foundto be , the better phrafed: Nor shal I tell you , that the manner thereof is fo undoubredly the more rational , genuine , and lively , that if even thofe of your way could be per) waded , that men were fu.Iiciently thereto qualified , they would eafily grant the impofmg and uf of Forms, to be lefs nc- celTary: it is enough for us, that the Lord, who know- eth the .heft of our performances , m whatfomever fort , to be but lame and imperfeft , hath both allow- ed, and accepted of our extemporarie petitions, whereas your injoined Forms are no where required. 2> I fay, that the impofing of Forms impingeth u- pon the Spirituality of Prayer and Worship j That which boundeth and reftraineth the free Spirit of the Lord> %ii The fifth Dialogue Lord , in the motions and breathings whereof 3 the v*iy life of prayer doth confift, impingeth upon the Spirituality of Prayer and Worship : But fo it is > thac the lmpofing of Forms reftraineth and bindeth up > &c. Therefore, &c. That the Spirit of the Lord, whereby his people , efpecially in prayer , are guided and acted , is free , not only in its gift , but alfo in its operations both Scripture and experience do teach ; The witide blowzth where it Uftith , &c andfois ever/ on that is bom of the Spirit : where the Spirit of the Lord if, there is liberty : not only from the bondage of corrup- tio?i j but in the wayes and paths of the Lord ', and more efpecially , in the large and all-fearcbing difco- veriesoftheminde, yea of the deep things of God: and whit ftrange exercifes have been, and may be> in the experiences of the Saints , the refult of this li- berty, and of the variety of our unliable condition, Jacob's wreftlings , Davids heart communings , Spi- rit-fearchings , overwhelmings , and again exultmgs, Jerimiaffs mournings,and Daniel's fupplications > do exhibite a few examples. Now that the impofing of Forms , which are fet , certain > and determined , doth ftint this liberty , and cannot poilibly quadrat to all the variety above mentioned , needeth no other e- vidence > then that of an ingenuous reflection. I have already acknowledged that in the right ufing of feveral of your Forms , a man may have his heart very deeply affected \ and now I further fuppofe for argument , that fuch may be the aptitude of a full and found compoiition , as may poilibly fuppeditat peti- tions and expreiHons , convenient to every exigence ; but yet , that the Spirits free ufe- making , and mens ftinting thereof to thefe Forms , do vaftly differ , cannot be denyed j fince that, notwithftanding of all conceded , the enjoining of thefe impofitions is not Artfwered. 25$ n*t only inconfiftent with the free methods , but alio doth confine the illimited enlargements of the Spirit > as cannot but be obvious to any exercifed difcerner : But that which , I fuppofc , doth induce you and many others into an error, in this particular, is a picpofterous obfervation of certain good motions , and fincere and fervent -devotions , which poflibly fome may feel, in the ufeoryour Common-prayer- book, whence you inadvertently conclude , that the fame Forms, not appearing obnoxious to the efcap- es , incident to extemporarie expreillons , may, more fately and furficiently , fervc to the exciting and figmfying the like fpirituall motions and devotions, in all -, whereas it is certain , that as in the former cafe , thefe motions were only the free breathings and timings of the Spirit , and in a manner accidental to thefe Forms, wherein they come to be uttered j fo to ty the fame free influences to the manuduction of a fet or words , is moreabfurd , then the fame words are often found to be incompetent to the fetting forth of the Angularity that may be in the cafe of the Sup- plicant, whether a whole Church or (ingle Perfon. Really , Sir , when I cenfd^r , that the Lord craves the heart , and that men Worship him in Spirit , and that it is thence , and out or its abundance , that the mouth ought to fpeak \ and from a beleeving heart , that the tongues confeif on is acceptable ,1 cannot but wonder, how this inveifionofpiececding and lead- ing Forms should be fo much alTerted: and certainly if we may * after the Lord's example, iSAal. i. 8. reafon , in thefe things , from felf reflect ion, may not the knowledge we have of our own way , in fuch fup- plications , to or from our Neighbours , wherein the heart , and not the juftice and merit o i the fute , comes 254 The fifth Dialogue comes to be regarded, teach us, to reprobate, and naufeatefuchimpofuions? J f in heartv requefts, we. our felves can neither be confmed, in the making, to a'rat of words put in ou1- mouth, nor relish thelike practice from others , anddocenfirefuch methods, as too cold and indifferent ; how much more should, weftandinawe, to obtrude them to the Father of Spirits , the fearcher and lover of the heart * I mi^ht arife higher, upon this fubjeft -, and demonftrate to you , from the order of nature, which certainly the Lord hath principally ordained for his own Worship, Service and Glory, that the heart , and minde , and: not the eyes, common fenfe, or memorv ( unlefs info farreasisrequifite, to the joining of the hea- rers in Publick praver) ought to preceed , in all ; and without queftion did preceed,in the firft acknowledge- ments rendered to him by his creatures ; but I nei- ther love nor need to admixe fuch reafonings to thefe Scripture-grounds already adduced : I shall therefore fumme tip this argument, with anfwenng two objecti- ons^/*. That I feem i. to forget, that our Mini- fters in publick praver , do , as much , preceed and1 lead the peoples devotions and affe&ions , by their conceived words , as if they were fet and predevif- ed : 2. To fuppofe , that all who can or ought to pi ay in heart, arealfo qualified to a futeable utte- rance. And to the firft it is anfwered. I. That it is evident , that the People may , and ought to joine m publick prayers , uttered by one as their mouth , al- though the famine be by him conceived , and to them unknown, until exprefled ; this is clear from the practices of God's People -, in thefe publick prayers of D.ivid , Solomon , Jebofophat , and others already mentioned : and you your felf lay it for the ground of an Anfwered. 235 an argument} ta^ that the people can joyne, and pray by the Spirit , though the words be not of their iraming. 2> That although our Minifters do preceed in words ; yet feing the people ate gathered in the Lords Name, and he , with the power or his Spirit, in themidftofthem ; and the Mimfler is called and flppointedto overfee them , know their condition and neceiliiies ? and to be their month toward God ; and laftly , feing there is a promile of the Spirits publick , aswell as private ailitance, whereupon we may af- fureoly confide, both for a due initruction , ienfe, and utteiance in the Mimftcr , of the Peoples ftate , and exigence , and a fweet uniting of their hearts , in an harmonious concurrence ? the agreeableneffe and advantages ot conceived, and not irrpofed prayer, are thereby abundantly conferved: and the difference betwixt the Minifters preceeding , in free and Spirit— directed words, from the manuduclion of ycur re- uniting forms , maniicftly held forth. Offend iot that I fay Spirit-directed words ; for if I should icfciivePrayerintheutterauce, to be the exprerTing if there deiires , which through the Spirit we make .intoGnd, in the name ofjeius Chuff, for things igreeable to his will , in woids directed by the fame Spirit ; and thence draw an argument , for reprobat- ng your vain deviling , and rigid commanding of i-orms , which practice the Lord hath neither order, d nor blefled , 1 should but define thedutic, accord- ng to the Precept andPromife, which is no more mpugned , by the mixture of ycur infirmities, then he account given by you , either of internal praying >y the Spirit , or external , by a Set - form , which, :s horn us , do aiwayes labour of imperfection , are hereby made void. As for ihe fecond objection, that i feem to fuppofe , that all that can , or ought to pray in 2 $6 The fifth Dialogue in heart, are alfo qualified , to a iu-eableutterarrce; Ianfwere I. That my prefent difcourfe , of concei- ved Prayer, doth no more fuppofe, all to be thereto qualified, then your difcourfe of internal Prayer by the Spirit , doth wirrant the like conftru&ion : how men do pray , and how they ought to pray , are eafie to be distinguished. 2. The Spirit of fupplication, is no doubt promiied, not only for inward morions , but alfo for outward futeable expreifions; and the teaching of God is futficient.and may be forthcoming for che one , as well as for the other : Nay as we know, the expreilive facultie, where the organes are not impedite, to be al waves more or lcfs fubfer- vient enough to the mindes conceptions ; fo , not- withstanding that the Gift, and Grace of Prayer, be certainly diftinft , yea in fuch fort feparable , that the gift may be, where the grace is wanting; yet feing the Gift is promifed , and given , for the help of the. Grace, ar left in general ; ( for, that in particular Per- fons, the gift may be found without the grace , for helping of the grace in others , is not refufed ) it is fcarce to befuppofed , nor can it be eafily inftanced, where one in whom the Grace was found, was totally defticute of all meafure of the Gift -, I fay , of all mea- fure , for that many have had the Grace , without that eminencie of the meafure , that men do ordinarily terme the Gift , cannot be denied ; but the thing to be principally here adverted to , is , that we judge not of the competencie of this Gift , according to mens too frequent eftimation. That the mixtures of that vvofull vanity, from which , of all vices , our minds are moft hardly purged , occaftoned by a juft averfion of Forms , ill framed and worfe impofed , have too far altered the ordinary Rule , from fincere and ac- ceptable firnplicitie > is too true a regret i certainly > if Anfwerefcf. 257 if men were more denied unto their own wifdome, and more furrendcred to the conduit of the Holy Ghoft , even for the words which he teacheth , both the ungodly fcorn of many , mocking ac apparent weakneflfes , and the pretended modefty, but real I vanity , of others ,their felf-diffidence ; and laftly ouc true and undeniable insufficiencies > for a fureable utterance in Prayer, would foon, and happily be corrected: But 5. admitting that moft men were more unqualified, and worfe furnished, then really they are, tor conceived prayer, pray. Sir, what dotli your impoling of Forms help the matter ?. That ihe reprefenting of Forms , and other Rules byway of dire&orie, may conduce for inftiuc~tioii , will eafily be agreed unto ; but that the impolirion wherein the evill of your way lyeth , addeth nothing by way of help,- but on the contraire , is a prefumptiious pre- fcriving in Gods Worship, a manifeft retraining of the Spirit of Grace and Supplication , and plainly in- jurious , both to the exercife and improvement of tho Gift of Prayer , is not lefs obvious , to every ones ap- prehenfion , then by the arguments adduced evidently ■evinced. Having thus difcufied the firfi: part of our prefenc debate , anent the impofiog of Forms in general: The fecond pare, whether that Syftemc of "Forms i contained in your Service-book , be not ( for not a few of them ) unfound > and impertinent, and not to be received, fo much as for a Directory, remains yet to be handled < But iince it is a little after , that you are pleafed only to give a touch on this head , and that the famine on our part , hath been fully fpoke to, by fuch , who by their examinations and anatomies , have abundantly difcovered , both the Errors and Su- perftition, which your Licurgie contains j I proceed R to x 5 % The fifth Dialogue to anfyver$,» what remains of your iut'oning. And i. You lay it down as a 2^o\xnd,thatyin oppofition to vourYormsiWt hold fpi ritual devotion to be onhthe ufing and pouring out of unprefcrhed words , «# if that were ad ■ rewind : Which is altogether falfe , and ridiculous ; feipg it is evident, that as no prayer is acceptable* unlefs made in the Spirit; fo we therefore call our way ipintual , yours formal , in refpeft , thac ours is fut- ed to the liberty , and made dependent on the Spirits direction j whereas your impositions, do both reftrain the Spirit , and are plainly a humane invention* 2. You fay, That it exprefjeth a more fpiritud temper^* he able to Wor\\.ip God in fimple and conflant Forms : But i . That this doth indeed import more fpirituali- ty , then the imaginative ftraines of thefe , who only flow 5 and are fervide in words , and are not fervent in Spirit , ferving the L ord -y w hich is the very fumrne of your difcourfe , is no more certain , then imperti- nently by you infifted on. 2. That the elevations of Spirit may, fometime, fuimount the faculty of ex- preflion, as I have already touched , is as little to your purpofe. 3. Thar it exprelTeth a more fpiritual tem- per, to be able to Worship in a fet-form , then, ir> the fame inward frame, to be able in free and Spirit- dire&ed words , in 3 more full and lively manner , then any ftinted Forms can pretend, to expreiTe our prayers, and our praifes unro God; I utterly deny : And am very confident, that when you attain to the experience, you wiil be farre from thinking, that this is a multiplicity , which doth lead out. 3 .You fay, that if extemporarie prayer be by the Spirit,it mufi he infallible : But pcoi man , do you nor confder I. That the Spirits direction, and oui irr perfection are not incompatible. 2. That this doth as m uch mi- iitat againft fpiricual prayer, in, and by your hu- mane Anfwered. 259 mane Forms , which you fo much magnify ; and yet they are neither perfect , nor infallible. £. i have al- ready told you , that the Spirits extraordinary infalli- ble alfiltance , and ordinary prefence and direction* are molt distinguishable. 4. You your klf plead, that as we affirme , that the people may join with the Minilter, andPrayby the Spirit, though the words be not of their framings fo the Minilter may alfb pray in the Spirit? though heufe words framed by ochers , and yet vou k:iow , chat neither the ore nor the other are infallible. 4. You fay? If ontjhould with a fh&l -band foil :r his prayer , whom we fay brails by the Spirit \ thin, ma-i not that praver ke u fed aver Again j? Or , K the Spirit in the p raver fo volatile , ih. t i> tvaporats in the famig ? Really, might I be free with- out ofteice, I would tell you my fears, that both your Rea Ion , and Religionare evaporat: art thou a Mailer of Ifrael and askeftfuchqueftions ? do either we affirm j that praying bv the Spirit, dothconliit principally in the conceiving of words, fo, as another, ufni'T , but not conceiving the fame words, cannoe prav by the Spirit 1 Or , do you imagine that the Spi- rit in Prayer, is in the drefs and form of words , fa that whoever doth ufe them , doth pray by the Spirit? And ferng that both members are groundlefs ,. whac ' can vout qaeftion import 1 What it is to pray by ths Spirit , we \uwq already heard , which , as it doth not impede , why a man may not poiliblv join , and pray in the Spirit, though m the words of your Forms *. when uttered bv thecoldelt Formalilt ; fo , neither is it by us tved to the conceiving and expreifing of words ; nor doth a mans praying bv the Spirit , yec in words, either compofed » or uttered bv another t in the leatt impugne that fpiritual liberty in or:;ll Prayer, by usafierced, a^ainit your unwarrantably R x iuto z6o The fifth Dialogue impoikions , which liberty , conliltmg in the uncofi* fined ufe of words , left to the Spirits dire&ion , as it is molt agreeable to the freedom of the Spirit, and our rational fervice , which the Lord > whorequireth it , hath not aftri&ed unto Forms j fo , in refpeft of your carnal, reftringent, and unwarrantable impofings, is therefore j and molt jutt'ly, termed fpiritual. but it were only a wearineffe to trace all your Miftakes , and inconiiftencies in this queftion ; he who can con- ceive , that the fpiritual manner of prayer3byus com* mended, is neither, on the one hand> a praying al- wayes in new words , nor , on the other > flich as can be lawfully tyed up , to humane (tinted forms ; but is to be performed , whether by a man for himfelf, or with and for others , in words freely directed by the fame Spirit 3 from which the inward defires and mo- tions ought to proceed > will eafily tell you, that the cafe of a Minifters following this Rule, and being aftri&ed to words , framed by another , hold no pa- rallel , and with the fame facility , unravel all your other quiblings , and pitie your impertinencies: and thereforel go forward. Your N. C. asks } but doth not the Spirit help our infirmities and teach us to pray ? And you tell him , that , the words aright cenfidered , fpeal^out a far different thing from what he would draw from themy and that the Spirit doth indeed teach us the matter of our Prayers , and alfo the manner ? to wit* the temper oj our hearts ; but , that words are not meant, ap- pears from what follows > and mal^th intercefjion for us with groans that cannot be uttered. But? .Sir 3 if the iVpoftle commend the Spirits aififtance to us > in prayer , in intending our defires , above the earneft- nefs that words can exprefs^doth it therefore follow , that, in the directing of our utterance, which is a kfer matter > his help is not to be expe&ed f a- Though V S Anfwered. 261 2. Though in this place , the Spirits help for the di- re£fcon of our words were not meant ; can you deny , that? that gift, is not fully ellewhere promifed? have you forgot the anointing that teacheth us of all things ? The Spirit that giveth utterance ? And the Father of lights jrom whom cometh tvery good Gift ? And who enricbetb us by J eftts Cbrift in alt utterance and in all ktiotrledge ? Or , need I to remember you of the promifes, that the heart o the rafh jhall under knowledge , and the tongue of the flammerer jhall be ready to fpeal^ plainly , or elegantly: and again the tongue of the dumb flull fing : Really, Sir, it a man diffident of the readineife or his expreffion , cannot from thefe open fountains draw fiipply , I am confident that the brocken Citterns of your impofed Forms , will make him but fmall reliefe. After this , relapiing into your former prejudice, and caufing your N. C. to fay, That in this imbodied ftate , ice need to have our Souls flirred up by the commotion of our Fancies , you accept of the acknowledgement, and thence inferre , That at leajl , fuzh a way of praying , is not fo fublime , and there- fore ought not to be called praying bv the Spirit : But, Sir, as I have already told you , that he , who being inter- nally moved by the Spirit of Grace > neither needeth a Set-form, to obftetricai his expreffion , nor therein confineth himfelf to it , but out of the abundance of his heart, and , in words directed by the Holy* Gho ft, doth flow forth in his Prayers and Praiies ; is indeed of a higher fize , then he who having the fame devo- tion toward God , is therein either ranted by anoth- er, or ftraitened in himfelf, to a limiting and reftrift- ing Form ; lb, your talking in this place of the ftirringg tf the Soul y by the commotion ofFancie, and the gratu fications of Nature and imagination , is , but the £rati- iicaaonof your own vanity , in as much , as it neither K 3 per- 2oz i ncniLii L>Maiuguc pertaineth to the prefect Queitlou , wnereof thelaw- fulnefs or unlawfulneiie oi mens impofing Set-forms of Worship, and not the lite or fpintuuiity thereof (wherein i hope vye are agreed) is the fubject ; neither tfo we either teach or defend , out plainly rsjeft, theic carnal methods, here by you iuppofcd to excite de- votion by fancie, and kindle our affections by ima- ginations, where the infpiration of the Spirit ought to warm the heart, and bio we the flame, as being the offering of itrange tire unto the Lord , in place of the heavenly fre, thatdefcends from himfeU, upon bis Altar : It is true , the heart , and dehres thereof, being once let on wo:K, by this divine principle, may , and ought to enlarge it felt, by the fummouing an J exciting of its affections, and whole minde and ftreugth , for the intending of its fervor, and elevat- ing of the Soul ; but this truth , doth lb little favoure your impofitions , in preference to our way , that by a new argument , it further , and evidently contirmes, the narrownefie and iniu'Hciencie of your ftinted Forms, to that fpiritual boul devotion , wherein the Lord delig tits* But you fay , That , you will convince w of the ev'rl ccextimporarie Forms , and I* you fay, That, Imuft long exercife my attention > to confide what he who praxes intends, and this firangeh' draweth out the minde from devotion , which cannot "iigormfly aft two powers at once^ and therefore yon conclude , that both in reafon and ex- peri: t. u , Sei-fcrms do cond;(& a mans devotion, with lefi mxietp wavering or dijlraclion : To this it is anfwered I. 'Tint ieing the Churches of Chrift are united , not only m the fame form of prof ellion , butinthefame Spirit, and have the promife of theprefence of the Lord and his power, in all their Aflemblies gathered in his .Name, whepeby both Minuter and People, may ri Anivvered. 203 may expeft all due ailiftance in their performances $ yourfuppofed unacquaintednefs in the People, with what the Minifter intends , with the long attention , and ftrange out-drawing of the minde > which you thence inteire > are but your own groundlels and faitalefs imaginations : 2. That a certain meafure of previous attention in joining, either with conceived > or impofed Forms , is n celTary ro inftruct our devo- tion , is neither by you , nor us to be denied ; but how you can thence conclude, that attention, as fuch , which in this cafe, both in your and our way is abfolutely neceflfary , dire&ly preparatory , and leading into, should lead out from the devotion to cnfue ; and by what Logick you make the attention > or inclination of the minde , and the devotion thence arifing, almoft as connected, as the inclining of the ear , and hearkening are , two powers, fatrd not two a&sj and thefe alfo incompatible, furpaflfeth common underftanding : Jt is true, if I could fuppofe with you , that the People, nay the Minifter himfelf, going about to pray, were wholly ignorant , how he will difchargeit, and that therefore, they, either join blindly , or with anxiety $ nay further that our way labours under many abufes of tedious length , fcnrriloui cxprefims , involved periods , petulant and wanton - j'eHations , and the like ; 1 might polllbly tinde fome shadow of reafon for your alledgeance: but iince, s on not only fpeakas aftranger to the Grace and Gift of Prayer > and to the unity of the Church of Chrift, which is one Body>baptifed and united into one Spirit, having one Hope, one Faith, one Lord, one Bap- tifme , one God and Father of all , who is above all , and through all , and in us all ; whereby Chriftians before Forms were impofed , are found both to have been , and to have continued with one accord in R 4 Fayer, 2.64 The fifth Dialogue Prayer, and Supplication , and 'opofof&h' t0 have lift up their voice, and that one voice, in the fame ex- tempo arie woid> to God, in Prayer and Thanks- giving \ but do alfo fubtilly and profanely take ad- vantage, from efcapes incident to humane frailt-io to jfrociame the fameasgrofs abufes, and thereipon fcofTandmockat the heartieand fpiritual Prayers of the TJpright , wherein the Lo:d delighteth : J hope your own vanity 2nd folly shall reprove you: But 3. a$ attention is recjuiiite , even in the publick ufe of your Forms , and in our ivay is attended with /2ich advan- tages, that do both render it ftveet and eafie, and fully fecure the conduct of our devotion ; fo, by your courfe, it not only happens, that oftentimes the at- tention is fore put to it, and perplexed, as you objecle to us \ but the very Rule of devotion is made alto- gether infecureand uncertain: for proof of this , there needeth no other Argument, then that you obferve thefe Forms , lately added to the English fervice , that thefe were as uncouth to the People , at the rirft hearing , and required as great attention j as our ex- temporarie conceptions ^ is clear and obvious : But ieing belide this , the People are put to join in words, they know not by whom framed » and for the com* -poring and commanding whereof, their appeareth neither precept , nor promife in Scripture^ that their attention in this cafe, muftbe more exerci fed, and their devotion in more hazard to be diftra&ed , then when they join with him , whom they judge to be appointed by the Lord , to be their mouth to him- ward , and on good {^rounds fuppofe, to beinftru&ed, bothwiththe knowledge of their condition, and the Rule and Spirit, whereby he ought to make the fa- mine known>in fupplications , unto God , is beyond contradiction : neither is this the only inconvenience, of Anfwercd. 265 of tkis fort, in yoar manner > there is a Court-prac- tice , that I could tell you of ; how the King pro re mta, uieth to ifllic out a Form of Prayer, either for his own Chappel, the Citie- Churches > or further as he pleafeth to extend his orders ; and if thefe no- vell prefcriptions , be not more chargeable to the at- tention , and difturbing to the devotion > then any thing in our way j nay , if it be not a Method , a$ dangerous in its tendencie , as deftitutc of warrant , let men judge: But thisistheSuprcmacie5 toohigk tor you to have remembred : 4. If there were a great- er exercife of attention in our way then in yours ; yet when I confider , that attention > if not iurcharged , or confounded , doth certainly tend to the quickening of the devotion , and that on the other hand , by the coldnefs of your ftinted Forms , both the attention > is > for the moft part wholly flackened , and the de- votion deadened -, the inftance you make of a few fe- rious, it may be? but weak and peevish perfonsof your partie > profeflmg a great ihyednefs in the ufe of Set-forms ; whereas in extemporarie Prayer , they could not keep their minde from diffraction , doth neither impugnc thefe more lively and powerful de- votions , whereunto the Lord , and not man , hath ordered our Method ; nor , in the leaft , doth ic counterbalance thefe myriads of dead Formahfts, whom your way doth burie in utter fecuritie, and ir- religion : In this place you tell us by way of wittie difcovery , that the way of extemporarie Prayer, w if you had been pleaf- ed Anlwercd. 267 ed to propound it , in us lull latitude > vity That the whole word of God , many other infractions and forms thence diawn and delivered > and left to us by godly men> with our own publick Directory , and tiicle of other Churches , and laiUy , that the teaching or our Parents } Mailers, and Pallors, are all given to us, to guide us , and aliift us , both for matter and words , in the prayers we ought to make: And if you had underftoodit aright, -7^. that leing the rule in our way , is , as certain , though not fo llinted , as that in yours , and that our Miniilcrs appointed to be the peoples mouth , in publick Prayer and Worship , are not only tried, in their utterance for preaching, but alio for prayer \ And laftiy that any material aber- ration , is as difcoverable and cenlurable among us, as among you, you might have been iuliy iatisfied , thac neither theinfirmities norabuies of men, are charge- able upon our manner of Worship ; nor doth your peremptory impofmg of Set-iorms , morefecure the matter , from the like , and greater enormities. But being refolved to carp , you lay , why mav not we L\<-.e A DireElon ortcords , as well .is things? 'Tis anlwered. I. A Directory for things to be prayed for, is no doubt a Directory for words alfo, if the things be fully directed , the application of words , the known fignes , can have litle difficulty ; Z. The directory, diftinCtly and particulaily ordering the method , and cendefcending upon the heads of prayer, with as much exactnels , as the latitude to bereferved to the free grace and gift of God, will admit ; cannot but be received for a Directory, both of words and things. But you add, That tt was tut a cheat , to co^mtht World who might have liartled , to have feenus , m'ltb- out any ride for PVorfl'ip , in as much as our Leaders quickh wearied of it. It is anfwered , firft, So long as any Cliuichdoth own the revealed w id and word of Cud, 263 T'ie fifth Dialogue God , for the rule of Worship , none > but fuch phan- taltick Forrculills as you will prove ftar tiers at this furc and acceptable fimplicity; i. Whence you alledge our Mmirters their wearying of the Directory , as fuch , except from the fuggeltion of your own malice> I cannot concdvz : that our Leaders neither turned it , nor ait rifted themfeives to it as , to an impofcdLitur- gie, is very certain -y but that they did not ac all re- gard it , is agroundlefs calumnie. In the next place, you add, that, Hence it clearly followed , that the Preachingwat the great matter of we Worihip \ but the conftant acls , wherein the Church foould adore God, were thought f o homely : How you will make out this connexion , feing , both the ground is falfe , and the confequence doth not hold , I re- commend to your fecond thoughts ; though our Prayers and Pfalms related to our Preaching, yet it will not conclude , that therefore the Preaching was the great matter of the Worship ; Your Service-book makes many » both Prayers , Gofpells, Epiftles > and Collects , relative to certain reftivall dayes , is therefore the obfervation of thefe dayes , the great point of Worship ? The great matter of Worship is the rendering of our acknowledgement unto God , which ," if performed bv prayer* hearing of His word, andpraifes, and that in fuch a harmony, as all the exercifes may confpire , and be mutually help- ful , is thereby greatly advanced , and not in the Ieaft marred. As for thefe Conftant aBs , which you de- fiderat in our Service $ if thereby you mean your Coji- ftant Set-forms , you are already anfwered ; but if onlv the dayly folemn performances of Prayer and praift , which inliew of the morning , and evening Sacrifice, ought , as the ftated and fixed recognizance of the creat God ? be obferved and kept up , in every Chriftfen AnfwerecL 269 Chriftian Society , when other things shall be restor- ed > I frankly prom ife you myaffent. In the laft place , you fay: It is the leafl evill of ex- temporarie Forms , that a Minijltr is ready to pour out Im Soul to God , in fuch de-jotions as are then moil in bis own Spirit ■> which may pojfibly happen to be very unfit for Public l^IVorJb.ip , Sir , this is io groundlefs a fear, and To plain a diffidence of the afliftance and prefence of the Lord , that I shall not trouble you with any further anfwere, then to add, that as a thoughtfull ferious Spirit, is ever found to be moft prepared for durie, and divine influences -, fo , all experiences do conclude , that a Minifters particular exercifes , have been fo farre from marring , rifat , on the contraire, they have al way es rendered his publick performances, more fpiritual and lively. And thus at length your dull N. C. comes to fee that you are for Set-jorms , and demanding your rea- fon ,tels you > that the Apo files ufed them not , to which you anfwere, ih2t you ca?mot doubt y but they uftd our Saviour's Prayer , and really , though I do as little doubt, but they might have done it; yet I think, both you and I, muft acknowledge, that we finde no veftige of their doing oi it. For as for your diftin. guishing , betwixt JAathew*s after this maimer therefore pray ye j and Luke's when ye prav , fay , the pattern to be propofed in the firft , and the practice intended in thelecond: feing theform is formally the fame, in both places , and the patterm fo propofed by hiathew , that the practice might be its moft exaft imitation , and the practice fo enjoined by Luke , that yet the latitude of a Pattern , is not discharged , ycur notion is but airie, and of no moment. But if it were needful, to give ycumy thoughts in this matter, I y ou'd fay , that considering, i, That this r.attern was given 270 The fifth Dialogue given to the Difciples , in the infancie of their know- ledge, before the out-pouring of the Spirit, as a short and eafie rudiment. 2. That thereafter the Spirit is promifed , and that in fuch an abundant meafure , as it should f o v like rivers of living water. 3 . That our t ord in his laft difcourfe , commands them frequent- ly to pray to and ask the Father , in his Name , and 4 that the Spirit being given defa&o , they were enrich- ed unto all utterance , and both in their own Pray- ers , and in their Directions to others , how to pray, do conftantly make mention of the name of Jcfus , thefe things 1 fay considered , I am verily in the opi- nion, they did not precifely ufe , either this form of Prayer, or any other; but leaving this digrellion, andeileeming this Form to be the moll excellent mo- dell , and the very Subftanceofall prayer , and grant- ing the Apoltles might have ufedit ; yea fuppofing with you, they did ufe it ; yet what makes all this for your impofiag and enjoining of Forms , the only point of our prefent difference i But you go on and fev, the Jews at that time had a Liturgie , and hours of Prayer , which our Saviour m~ ver reproves : ergo quid. I hive told you already > that to inferre an approbation, from our Lords tolerance fora time, of eitherthe whole, oranyof the parts of that fervice , which he was in a short fpace to abo- lish totally, is bad Logiek.2. Admit this tolerance were an approbation , how will you make it out , that the Jews their Ly turgie, was more then a Direc- torie , and that they were thereby aftri&ed , to an impofed Set-form * Specially feing we finde, that where, in their bell times, certain Forms of Prayer and Thanksgiving , diclued by the Spirit , are com- mitted by hrSid , and other men of God > to the Minifters for publick ufe ; yet the thing was both dene, Anfwered. 271 done, and obferved, without the mention of any precifc aftriction , or limitation. In the next place you tell us , that the Lords Prayer is word jor word taken out of the J (trifle Lyturgte : and thence you think , that exception again fi the Er.glijh Sen-ice , thatfomcoi its Probers are out oj the Ron", an Mijfal and (not, or) Breziarie , to be,oolijh and ground- less : But pray , Sir , why talk you lb confidently of the Jewijh Liturgie of thefe times , ( lor other pofle- rior Liturgies availl not ) finceto this day, though much fearch hath been made , and many forgeries have been obtruded, no furh thing could afiuredly be found : Next , if fuch a thing found and pure was in our Lord's dayes , think you lr was then no better Pattern , nor the Roman MifTal , Ritual , and Brevia- rie were , in the very profoundeft 'darkened , of that Superftition , immediatly befoie the Reformation broJ and not fin* gularly privileged , to pray ex tempore , by their extra- ordinary Gifts ; and if the fame command of God , andpromifeof the Spirits afliftance> are full wich us , for our warrant > and encouragement to this dutie, your argument here infinuate , is emptie and inconclu- dent , and in effecT: > doth as much prove , neither the ApoiHes their Preaching , nor Praying , to beat all by us imitable , as the point you aime at. Your next Argument for Set-forms , you usher in3 by the inftance of the Corinthians , who in their Wor- fl)if ufed H/nmes of their own compojing , as well as pray" ers j and then you adde 5 that, you could nner corn* prchend, why we allow the Spirit to be rejlrained in Praif- ing y as to words , and not in Praying : Sir , whe- ther you preface the cuftome of the Corinthians, for enforcing your impofed Forms > or as the reafon of your doubt , anent the difference ufed by us in Pray- ing , and Praifing , doth not appear from your words? However , as it is evident > that m that Church » there was rather an exuberant liberty , then any thing like to your (tinting; fo, our practice, and theirs, shal foon be reconciled ; but firft, let us take your N. C. Anfwere to your main fcruple > and he and I tell yoUitbatybecaufe the Pfalmes and Scripture-fongs , are a collection of Praif es $ dictated by the Spirit of God , for JTorfrip ; and have been fo made life , both by the Church of the Jews, in the time of the old Teftament , and by the Chrijiian Church , in all Ages ; therefore , they are ufed h us , to the fame end , without either refrain- ing the Spirit y in the performance , feing it k hk own appointment > or tying all our praifes , to thefe Forms , feing God hath thereto* only tyed our folemn praife ? by fjnging > and other w ayes, left and allow $ its > afurder liber* ty: Anlwered. 273 •fv: To your K.C. part of this anfwere you reply , char never were more abfurdities croud ed in lefi bounds z And if I may alio anticipac , I am certain, there were never more profane and ignorant fopperies , fluffed into a return , then in that , which you here do make. And firft, you fay, ins clear we may worjhip in the Spirit, and vet be retrained as to words ; fince we ackriow~ ledge, that God hes done it in fraifing: But waving that , which I have already plainly , and fo often told you, 17*. thatitistheimpofingofmen , and not the free ufe-making of Set- forms, that we condemne ; how ablurd is it for you , to alledge , that a man worshipping in words , prefcribe'd by the Spirit, is » in lo doing, rcftrained in Spirit? Could you noc advert , that the Spirits prefcriving , and mens , are different , and chat he prefcriveth to himfelf? without; any reftraint? 2. You fay, there are mam ¥ films prayers } and whs may they not be ufed for conftant prayers , as wdl <& the other for conflant praifes f N.:v way, for infiance, may we not ufe the 51 Pfalme in plain words , with apla'm voice , as prayer , as well as in hobling rime , with a Tune * 'Tis anfwered , That I may fir ft take out the waspish fting of your Mockerie ; is this the tender refpeft , that you profefs p. 70. to every thing , that related* to Gods fervice ; to call the Pfalmes in meeter, ufed both by you, and us, hobling rime ? or is your Po2tick vain fo nicely delicate, that you can endure no verfes inferior to your loftie VindarickJ. Which yet , if O i- ticks miftake not , doth trote more rudely, and lame- ly, then our hobling meeter : for my part, I fee noc what anfwere can be given tothefe Qaeftions, five this , that it feems both your readernefs , and poeHe, are but falfe , and forced : Buxtothepurpofe, 2. I $ arw 274 The fifth Dialogue anfwere, that the Pfalms -prayers , 'and particularly tlie 5 1 Pfalm , may in plain words , with a plain voice be lifed in Prayer, as Prayer, if fo be, the Spirit do Jo direct our utterance -> but if by conftant prayers , you mean, that the Praying-pfalms , may as well be impoied , and enjoined for prayer , as the other for r raife ; you want the warrant ofthe Word, and Spirit of God, who hath appointed the whole Pfalms, to inftruct our praife ; but not to regulat our prayers , and fo you widely mils your rnarke . But here you in- finuat two difficulties \ i . How we come tofwg Pfalms- prayers f and this you afterward enlarge by demand- ing, our warrant-, forufmgall Dav id's Pfalms , find wanv of them relath\g to particulars of Davids life , be* long not to m ? Others ofthemare- imprecatork , hardly to be fungi and man) things there are hi the Pfatmcs, which we under ft and not , andlaflly there were not above twen- tie ofthe Pfalms ufed by the Jews in TVorflvp. To this it is anfwered , that being commanded we fing Pfalms- piayers, not with direct thoughts futed totheftraia of Prayer, w herein they were fii ft framed, andfaid, before they were appointed to be fung ; but with a reflexe acknowledgement ofthe goodnefs and mercy of God , the hearer of prayer , who both turned the Authors mourning intoafongofgladnefs , and hath appointed it to be fo ufed by us , that we may be en- couraged , and praife him , in the like hope : if in al- moll all Pfalms of Praife, wefinde the preceeding difirefs and afflictions , with the prayers and groan- ings , therein made, fhfl pathetically coramernoi at, as the ground ofthe entiling praife, for the delive- rance • is it not eafie to apprehend , how that a fmall reneclion, might, after the Lord's reliefs, have made the reciting of a Pfalm wholly of lamentation , the raoft exulting exprtilion ofthe delivered* joy* and Anfwered, 275 and fluy commend it to us , to the fame p\rrpo(e? Fwiuy part j w hen I tttd or hear the 88 Pjdmc be- ginning with crying , and ending with da: kenefs, and like Job's \\v. pivcation upon the day ot his birth> hav- Mg no light shining , but a cloud dwelling upon it, 3r>Jl Yet ifele K a lor.j, ot i he Sons of byo--.:h , directed to fhe'Ctaf Mwfkian , i cannot but ackno'A ledge it, for -a Valine of high prahc unto God, who turned iuc.'i dokluil mourning, to be the matter of rejoic- ing; and thus, if von will rightly confide, tlv.t the Piai una are ordained for the matter of praife , where- of the manner , con lift ing in reikxe acts j directed by Spirit, unro iuch iu-t cable meditations, as may excite cur joy in , and prai'.cs unto God , is molt ra- tfOnallv , aid warrantablv cxprefiTcd , bv 'tinging* yduVftay very quickly befatifticd, that the Sair.ts their . '..an figs , David's particular Hiftory, Vi&ories, and the like, with all the composures made there- upon j yea-, even the'e imnrecatorie Pfalmes (which though in the direct act, they appear to be hard , and tom/ed aip:-citl wa rant , mav neverthelefs lurnish, unro all , fvA'ct reflections of praife ) are, meft proper tor the matter ol lung, ^hereunto they were, both at hVft framed, and have fince been ufed: are all the tvo>rks of God wonderful , and ftich as may excite to prtfrfet and do y to furnish matter, but to direct, nay to fuggeft , lead? and exprefs our Peti- tions , the very formal defires of the heart, and fpirit, in their fubftance,* at leaft, though not in their de- gree , are fo led and bound up , that it is hard to determine, whether this reftraint be more viiible, or injurious. Having thus farre diverted I return to our purpofe : You fay , there are many things in the Pfalmes th.it we undcrfiand not. To ling without understanding is cer- tainly fmful -, but unlefs youaffirme the Pfalmes to be in themfelves unintelligible, you may not, be- caufe of our ignorance , or weaknefs , re j eft the infti- tution of God : Laftly you tell us , that there were not Soie twentie of the Pfalmes ufed by the Jews In JJ'orJlvp. 5Tis anfwered I. You obferve not, that all this clatter , is no more againft us then againft you, at leaft your Epifcopai Church* for as for yourfelf, lam almoft m the opinion , that you are yet fo little fixed , that the cleareft redargution , will prove no con- viction: 2, The very iqicriptionsofmore then thrice the number of Pfalmes by you named 3 do demon- ftrat Anfvvered. 277 ftrat the groundlefs confidence of this your ailed- geance ; befide that we finde, i Chron. i6j. the v i v tirft Pfalm, delivered by David to the publtck Sing- ers , 'infert in the Book of Pfilmes , without any di- rection by way of title 5 what may we then conceive of the reft? j. Reforming Hcyktab commanded the Levitcs to fing praifes unto the Lord , with the words ot David and oiAfaph the Seer ; and this the opinion and cuftome of the Church mall ages > haveunder- ftood of all the Palmes : whence then is it , that you do ailert fo boldly <* The Z diiiiculty which I am to re- move , is , that sou fay we an not bound , or rather have no warrant to ufe the Pf. limes in itieeter or with Tunes, TVthis I anfwere, That we are bound to fin^ is evi- dent, both from Scripture-precept and example-, and that we are thereby warranted, to have the Pfalmes in meeter with Tunes , is as clear, as both are necef- fary, at leaft convenient in the propriety of our lan- guage , for the ufe of tinging : I deny not , but profe may be fung ; but ieing ic is certain, that our language hath no fuch exact Profodie, as either to render ic eafiely meafurable , or the meafures distinguishable by points and accents j nay that the import of the mufici or tonici accentus , in the Hebrew , q ii dim mo- dcrabantur barmoniam muficam , Is fb farre now loft, and unknown, that if we were now to fing the He- brew Pfalmes , we could not make ufe of them : Pray, Sir, leave us but the way of meeter, in place of points and accents, untill you teach us better Gram- mar : whereas you hint , that we mas have aft pavid*s Jnfiruments ds well as Tunes , if you could learn us to fing without Tunes , as we may well do without Or- gans , I shal not contend , but feing that D nid did > no doubt, invent and introduce thefe his Inftruments, as well by the fpecial direction of the Spine , as he did S 3 ail 27S The fifth Dialogue all ocher things y anent the iervice. oi the Temple* and that the Primitive Ghnltians > worshipping r«MM3 w the Simplicity of the Spirit , theniuoucvva,chho^es> canebant ajfd voce non faT3o^^m*.t I think yo>u Wtyf now put up your pipes 5 and, ipare. the coft. Next you fay>. Win may. not the Q'::);\fiim. Cb ir:h compofc wtp hhmnei > as tkty of Qorhith did $ And this you judge to be the more rueceffeark', because th^P David's Pj'ulmes have not fetch full and clean ~i\;mti$i •> uyonthj great M'/fiems of the Qhriftj an belie j'e : An4 you think the liberty, which we p^d foi m prayer, should much perfvvade it- 'Tis, a^i. vered, if you confer, that Scripture. > I Cor. 14. and partiodaiiy the 2&. v, you may underhand > that as the Apostle's bulked, in that place, is, to let an order to the wfe of ex-* traordinury Gifts, wherein tlut GaurchabcuAiiuktl* jfo , the Pfalnas, Doctrine, Tongue, Revda-tion, and Interpretation , there i'pok; n of , a$nea.r to be- in- (pired andaiBititious motions , which w;ll notfomad you any argument : And you your feif do. fo plainly obferve , that thefe pialmes a£ the Con-Ahiu^. were framed by private perfons , thiji I ltuj veil > EJaa* yo^ar remembrmg of the thing , to be exciaordiuaiy ,, di as q£ prayer j I think it doth fully remove, all that is here by y©u objected » and abundantly warrant us, both to *bide content vvkht Gods inftitutions , and refu-feafiAperfluous. mature of humane Odes ,. with thefe Divine. Pfalnje-s, which he hath anointed, for the matter of ou* «iore fo, lemne Praties. But your fcepe is, Why do nop. y&tifetJie Qlorie to the Anfwered. 279 the father j and your N. C. anKvering > Becaufe it ts not hi the Scripture and ft but the device of men : you re- ply > who would not be fie 1^ with fuch pitiful [oily? Thus your nice ceremonious ftomach , nauieats lure and fo- lid truths: You add, (hew me-areajon, why you make pravers mdwt praifes ? I anfwere i. Whatever we make we impofe none. 2. We do not fay , that we make either prayers or praifes -, our plain ptofeilion is, that as the Lord , whole it is , hath commanded > fc> we worship liira , ufing that allowed liberty of Spirit, and utterance > both, in prayer and praile , wheretmto he himfelf hath promifed to direft and aflift us : And as tor the Pfalmes given us by Divine appointment , for the matter only (and not for the formal cxpreflion of our more folemn praifing ) we arc fatisfied with has bountie j and therefore do refufe vour vain iuper- additioii of an humane invention : That our Meeter- Pfalmes are no device of men , feing they are the fame in fubftance and fenie , with thele in prole , without any greater variation, then the application of the com- mand of tinging to us Scots-men, doth both require and warrant , is obvious to any mans candid rcrieclion: As to the pollibihty of fingmg in Profe , as well as in Rime, I have already acknowledged it, and when you shall make ic plainly and lately practicable , I prefume none will difient. But yoa again return to the Dnxologie, and asks , Win it nuw not be ufed in the end of fmging , as well as it if ufed bv m in the end of praying ? And this fecond Demand heatsvou to be unmannerly, and to tell us, that fucb childiilsnes mal{cs voud^ubtour raii:r/i.d acui- ties: When in faire dealing, it would become your chantie better to infcrme them : but> palling your folly, I fay, we clofe our prayers ordinarily > vv-ith psaife and glory to the father-, the Sou, a?id the Holv S 4 Ghofl', * so The fifth Dialogue Ghoft } becaufe it is warrantable from Scripture-prac. tice, to wit , in Bieiling ; and agreeable to the truth and liberty of Gofpel- worship ; and yet we refuie it in tinging, (markeit, not in praifing ) becaufe, for that exercife , the Lord having inftructed us with a fufficient plenty of Divine compofures, we think it neither needfull nor acceptable , that we should gra- tifie an arbitrage impofition , in receiving the fupple- ment of an humane addition: It is true, the words are Scriptural , but can you fay , that the Scripture beares any fuch allowance, for their ufe in finding, as it doth for the Pfalmesof D-ivid< Yea and many other fpiritual fongs, in Scripture, whereof you might indeed with fome reafon reprehend our too great dif- ufe: Hence therefore it is manifeft, that not only the offence of your unlawful impofing ; but alfo the want of Scripture-warrant , doth exhibit the reafon of our different practice , in praying and folemn fung praifes , which you fo hotly urge . Having thus, Sir, vindicat, both the Truth and our rational Faculties, with how much advantage, might I retort your re- proach ofCbildifh weakenefi ? fuppofe our Reafons for refuting were no better then yours for impofing , is it "not a childish impotencie, to be angrie, let be to .make fuch a flirre, for ourfcruplingtodoa thing,, when you have no better reafon for you , then becaufe we exactly and fullv do the equipollent * And real- ly, when in my felfl confider, that on your part, fuch is the nature ofalmoftall the differences , that fill this Church and Kingdome , with fo much dif- fraction , how can it be fufficiently regreted? for 'Men , yea Chriftians , yeaChriftian Rulers , to vex and tofs poor Innocents , whom they ought with ten- dernefs ro protect , for no other reafon , even in your acknovvledgemeutj but becaufe, they will not fur- rsndare Anfwered. 281 rendare their Confcierces to aibitrarie, vain and frivo- lous impofitions , which the very natural liberty of reafon would difdain, is indeed a matter of wonder , which nothing lave a Devill:sh defign to debosh Confcience , and judicial delufion from the Lord, can fanfric : But I pray the Lord to open their eyes , who ought to fee. in the next place , returning to Prayer , you bid us confiderhow Hofea the Prophet prefcriies a form, when he fayeth take with yau words una fay : Strong realoning! The Prophet is exhorting a backilidden } impenitent, and obdured People , to returne ; and , for their help and encouragement, mftru&ing them , how by a short fupplication to God, they might avert his wrath: And this you make a warrant for men , rigidly to im- pofe Forms: Jfa Non-conformift should go forth in the Spirit of the Lord , and proclame , O Scotland returne unto the Lord thy God, take with you words, and fay , take away the iniquity of adefpiled Gofpel , and brocken Covenant , and receive us gracioufiy &c. would not you think him very impertinent, who should thence conclude , that man to be for a fet Li- tur^ie. But our faviour prayed thrice /■;/// in the fame words , and vet the third time more fervently : I will not tell you , that even in the Text there may be a little variation obferved ; but pray, Sir, who of us ever affirmed , that fervour in prayer did confift in a vary- ing of the phrafe, which is the inference you here make, againftus; and yet that a ftinted form, fpe- cially when impofed, may reilrain fervour, is as evident to any impartial difcerner, as that a deep fer- vor of Spiri: may oftentimes fixe in one short peti- tion , nay fometimes be intended to a degree beyond words , is certainly confirmed by manifold expe- rience. You conclude that in the Church they itfed Forms S 5 very 2 s z T lie fifth Dialogue very early: I will not tell you ♦ chat antiquity- is not a better plea for Set-forms, then it is for Bishops : And really in my opinion > it is To much the woric for either , that it pleads fo jointly for both > for that corruptions do draw on one another , and efpecially a declination in Government j a declination from the pure worship j though the firft beginnings., and ao tient examples were more obfcure , yet the joint pro- grefs and increafe of thefe evtls, in the I{oman Church, and the renewed late experiments , which we have had at home, contirme it above exception: Butti^y anfwere is firft , that the liberty of prayer , which, wc plead for , was in the Church long before Set-forms , even from the dayes of our Lord , during the times of the Apoflles and their Apoftoiick Succeflbrs , is 2 moil certaiu truth, and a bec:er pattern thenany after- alteration : why do you not then hold to it I As for the Liturgies of James and Mark, » you your felf diiowne them, and they are notour forgeries. 2. Ad- mit that in the third and fourth Centuries , partly through declining formality, and partly for a remedy ofchethenmuehadvanced decay, both of Piety and Gifts in the Chriftian Church > certain Liturgies were compofed and ufed ; yet the very variety oi them , which you acknowledge , as of that oSBaJiU that of Cbrtfoftome , that of Jmbvofe > doth fu^cient- ly teftify, that though they might then, have been propoied for helps , and fo ufed j yet there was not one of them impofed by peremptory injunction : As for what you fay of the Reformed Churches, th*n thev have their Liturgies , mid t.kahfb-hM we ours at our jv'jl l$e formation , it fo exactly quadrats to what I have anfwered , anent theantient Liturgies, their being framed for helps , that there can be nothing more ap- pofite j in as much > as it is am oft certain truth , that both tab our old Liturgie , (fmce you do name it fo ) and tii-:c oi'che R.iotmed Churches, are Co rarrediffe ie**t » and free from theiujpertmencies>, corruption^ ceremonies^ and cigjij reftucuoo of your Service- book > by which U ^uoisly bejwrayes its ioul popish tbuutain >. that tuey do more oppugue, then fortify your pj.nic.ipal 'intent ; but the. matter ipeaketh tor it fof; what shall we tluuftyof your hold aiTertion , ty ~. jLit tuna mt re cxtonjiorarte. hedts. ( as., you love to fptak of the liberty 01 prayer ,, as. rudely and profane - lyas. it you were talkuxg oil race horles. ) u fed in the »/; £ Wlaen evot only frequent luitances from the C-M , the coaftint practice oi the. times of the New Tdtameni > the iirlt and purer: ages oi the Chun n , bur the piofefied allowance v and kuowu practice >, or aii tae Rctowmed Churches , do lb directly witkiefs agaiuit you ; Verily- curs U&ch an impudence > that kit it tempt my Mediocrity > 1 rather leave it to your own Conscience. In the next, place* you make youx N- C. allidgp. Tb.it q:u Church, metfww thm my fa vor<. named., on purpose , that vou may take the advantage to fay ; ( MF4 UNH chkiL.i.d fo(:i/'.u'i) that, ajltbs Ji'id(ri//g4t us , tickxatiike wio that ifow nlUdgtd Piofthttcjs : whereof you > and you forfootb y on your word only > a,fj.urc, that withw wctrue : Sir, if the ^sofsoesof that he , artent the ule of exsempo- rarie prayer, wherein 1 have tuft now attraped you, cud not futfkiemiy fecure us. from the Gauder of your fcofung calumnies.^ could eaiily maJse it appear , that all thepames we took , in our own jult vindication % was many decrees inter, ior tot hat relYleis labour taken by your partie , to rep relent us to all , as molt arrant Re.bejlsj.an4 load us wirhthemoHatrocious teproch- c& > wh&k tive. Father, of Libs could invent : but 254 The fifth Dialogue Cut bono* It is fufficient for us, that as the work df the Lord > among us , was honourable and glorious , many wayes countenanced by his Grace , and Pre- fence 5 both in ordinarie and extraordinary appearan- ces , particularly in M. M. whom , I fuppofe , you have learned, from Balcanquels Manifesto, and not from us , to call her our Prophetefs , and only level- led agamfl the wickednes and tyrannie of a Prelatick partie , enemie to all Confcience , and the fcandal and betrayer of the Proteftantintereft; fo thefe hard and contrarie things , that have of late befailen us , in place of obfcuring , do only tend to its greater ma- nifeftation, and more univerfal approbation? from all that love our Lord Jefus Chrift in fincerity : But you proceed and tell us , that it is flrangely inconfequen- tiallfor us not to pray in a L iturgie ; set altvaves to blefs the people in a Set-form : But, is it not ftrangely redicu- lous for you , to defiemble fuch an obvious dilpa- xity? And will you ftill arrogantly pretend to be a Mafter of Ceremonies , in the Court of Heaven ? The Biefling > ufed by us to be pronounced upon the people, at the breaking up of the AfFembly, is only a short formula of a Chriftian fare-well , warranted by, and coppied from , the practice both of Mofes under the old Teftament , and the Apoftle Paul in the shut- ting up of his Epiftles ; and therefore in ufe to be per- formed , fometime in the words of Paul only, fome- time in the words of both, and fometime alfo with ane agreeable variation from both : What then can this make , for the impofing of fee- forms > for all publick Prayer and Worship? Do not both the di- verfe nature of the things , and the difference , be- twixt a peremptory impofition , and a free imitation , redargue this your i eafoning ? In civhl converfe , our ordinarie rancounters are commonly prefaced & con- clude Anfvvered. is 5 ciuacd , with certain received Formulae of a refpe&ivc benevolence ; should therefore all mutuall addrefles , be reduced , and ftraimed to the fame methods t Cer- tainly the fmalleft attention will both acknowledge the juft application, and marvel that (as you fay of us ) you arcfo little governed by reafun. But now to the Englijh Liturgie , which commen- ding as an excellent Rule of Worsnip , and ufing other vain floorishes j not worth the noticing: in anfwere to your N. C. you tell us: That it is farre from being an eafie wav of praying , and that a natural ma>i , would be better pleafed , toberunvtigoutwithhis oum concepti- ons \ then to uj'e the form of the Church , which is more fimple and humble. 'Tis anfvvered , That there may be fome conceated Hypocrites , from fuch a carnal mo- tive, defpiiing Set-forms , I shall not controvert; but as J have already told you, what are our juft ex- .. ceptions againft their imposition ; fo , that the gene- rality of men , who , for the moft part , do only lay clametothename , and make a (light profeilion of Religion, without bufying themfelves further in it, are by the carnal eafines , that they findeinyour way, uot only more engaged to it, then to ours^but habituat to a fuperftitious , itupid formality , wherein placing the all of Religion , they mine their own Souls , is a truth that millions of fad inftances do confirme: feing therefore, this flrongfood (asycu termeit) ofyour Service is indeed both ranck and poifonous , we wish that , that princely tendernefs in our Soveraign , to which you impute his forbearance to impofe it, may at length , in its juft exercife , extend to remove and difchargeit , in all his Dominions. As for the discreet prudence of our Superiors (the Eishops no doubt) which you would alfo commend to us, upon the fame ac- count j pardon us , Sir, if we be not fuch Babts: w& have is* Thefifrh Dialogue have shared too largely of the ftrong food of their V(* ©fence •, and ©f the bread of ad verfi'ty and water of af- fliction , from their hands , to be fo abufed \ He who rightly eonfidereth wiH'eafiiy atfTent, that they have hitherto been fparing , ro enjoin thefe corruptions , for no other reafon, then that which moved the Jem tofebeartotake 'Cbriftim the feaft'day, \i^left t'lrerebe minpronrt ammrgvhefeopk. As for thetiVfrftftg conteft, betwixt you and your N. C. anentihat dwi- ndle and ftupidity , Which we'fee occasioned by , and attending your formality , the ptteceeding di'fcourfe > cloth fo rationally connect them , atidco^nWiobfel* vationfo evidently con rirme the matter-? that your ■ alledgeance cfifome godly people, who, m a wcll-twean- jng fincertty, have, in the me of your fervice, trttaincd to feme feelings©f pure and fimple devOtk>n5doth fur- nish you no ftronger exception, then whatt'he Papi&s may alfo pretend for their Ma'fe and Latine-fervice. After this, you make your Non-con form ill obje<3te the vanity of your Service-book-repetirions , in the of ten redoubling of L of d have vnwey upmtts , and 2. its confufion , in tlmtall the people ftiyfvmto; 'the Prns* trs together , and u'ft Arnen. : but feing thefe objefc ©ns are afnongft the leaft of thefe exceptions^ wiftds by ours againft that LitHrgie, which ye altogether neglect: 1 only fay , that as the irf.Pfal. contain- ing a fu mm are en ar ration of the g: eat things Cod did for lfrad , and m oft pathetically interrupted by thefe frequent eruptions of praife , agreeable to men a re* flection , can be no precedent or warrant for the -foam* h§> and impofing the battologres of your Letanie> vainly compofed , and as deadly exercifed , mcompa- rifon to fuch a pattern ; fo , your inftance adduced from Mis 4. where it is faid, that the Wholecompanv lift up their voice with one accord to God , And the ciif- tome Anfwerecl. *i%j tome intimated by Paul , oi the faying Atnm at the giving of thanks > do not remove the coniufion objec- ted , i . becauie , it is the opinion of force , that that parage in they/#.r, was an afflatitious motiomboth dic- tatand uttered by the Spirits immediate mfpiration : 2. It may be doubted , if the whole company did all of them lift up their voice, in as much as one fpeak- ing in a company, and the whole confeming and join- ing , they may be properly enough laid to lift up their voice with one accord , though every (ingle member do it net: 3. Suppoimg , as is not impro- bable, that the great exultation of that final compa- ny, did then exprefs it felf , in that extraordinary manner ; would you ma-ke fuch extraordinary examples , precedents for ordinary lei vice f fare Rea- fon repugnes, and the effect of decencie doth not anl were: 4. For your Amen j as J am certain , that the Apoftles words , may be underftood of a confentient> though filent , ^Amcn ; fo it is evident , that , even rnthe>pointor order , vour fo frequently repeated A- mm is fuperftuous , and vain: but if you v\ ill reduce your practice to a decent ule , feing the matter appears to be indifferent , if you left to exprefs it, uie your liberty , only permit us the like favour of ours. As to what youfubjoine , that The people all witht ibeir ttflfeh foiu hi the PfalmtSy tu dthre ore rtuvj alfo in Pra- crs : the difpatities are clear. 1. we are warranted? and commanded to fing, which nectftaiily requires trite own vocall perfoimance and concurrence; whereas the command oi Prayer , ek her private , or pubhek , hath no fuch import. A man may pray in his heart > or join with another, without u'dng words: I hope you will not fay , that he can alio properly firg, and not ufe his voice, 2. i grant , your Lkurgie being ad- mitted , the joining of aUw-ich their voice in Prayer * though 2,88 The fifth Dialogue though not very orderly or decent , is yet practicable; but feing we refufe thefe forms , the reafon of our different practice, in this matter, from our ufe in finging, muft by your felf be acknowledged: Having confldered your anfweres to what you make your N. C obje&e , againft the Engtijh Lyturgie, I might give you an appendix of many more important ex- ceptions : As i. Its fcenical , and mimical compofure throughout? very unbecoming the Worship of the great God : i. The many impertinencies of its Le- tanies, Gofpels>Epiftles , and Collects. 3. Its manck- ingand confounding of Holy Scripture > fpecially in its Collects : 4* The fuperftitious obfervation of dayes and other ceremonies , tivifted all alongs with its whole tenor, and exercife : And 5, Its corrupt tinc- ture , and unfavorie and unacceptable ftraines and methods , which it tierives from the Romm Idola- trous Miffal, and Superftitioits RJtual > and Breviarie. whence it was tranflated $ but iemg others have fully declared them , to whom you have thought good to make no anfwere , civility forbids me to urge a de- clining Adverfarie. And thus we are arived at the controverted Cere- monies, T7>. The five articles of Perth : which vou fay, were all lawful, and moft of them ufeful and neceffarr. Sir, the matter of Ceremonies in general, andalfo of thefe by you fpecially named, with all the pre- tenfes that pollibiy can be alledged for them , have been fo fully treated and examined by ourr, parti- cularly by Didoclavim alia* Mr. Q.xlderwood in his Al- tare Damafcenum , and Gillefpie in his Englifti Pop't\]i Ceremonies , that I marvell, how you had the confi- dence , to fet forth thefe poor muftie , and many times and wayes refelled and baflcd reafonings, which you adduce: Neither are you in this only cenfurable ; but Anfwered. 289 but when I compare that wit and acuracie> adhibit by others of your way , in the handling of this fubjeir. > with that bluntnels and confufion , wherewith you repone to us the very meaneft of their Arguments » not fo much as in the leaft recocted , nay, that the short motives and iniinuations mentioned in the tenor of the Articles themfelves, are of farre more weight, then all your fuperficial difcourfe, mycen- fure doth almoft exceed to accufe you ? either ot bold ignorance , or a defigned treachorie : However, fince all the arguments, either ufed by others, orabufed by you, with all that could be invented, for main- taining your vain plea , doth ftand by us, fully and evidently difcufled ; I minde not by a difadvanrageous repetition, to lapfe into your error $ and therefore shall content my feif , by a fummare and clofe review of what enfues, in this Dialogue , to bring it to a Period. The flrft of the five Articles , which you begin with , is , Confirmation : And you fay , That if it had been introduced as a Sacrament , we had reafon to except againjl it ; but fang it was o>/i. defigned for afolemne re- novation of the Baptifinal Vow , that Children who do not therein engage themfelves , when they come to the years of difcretion , may then do it $ and vs confirmed bv antiqui- ty , the probable meaning of the laving on of hands men- tioned , Heb. 6. and the affient ofmofl Reformers , the thing feems to be fufficientU warranted. 'Tis anfwered > I. It feems that in this place you forget your felf i did you not tell us, in your £. Dialogue, that wash- ing the feet , and anointing the ficl^ with oyl ; though in appearance , as particularly defcrived , and as well warranted by Scripture , as either of the Sacraments ; yet , (ince antiquat by the Church , are now lawfully dif ufed > wherefore then mav not the Church? having T power 290 The fifth Dialogue power to exau&orate Sacraments , be alfo allowed the power to inftitute new ones, and fo eftablisn your Confirmation , as a Sacrament , fpecially fince the I{oman Church doth fo pra&ife it ? z. Not to contend with you anent the name and definition of a Sacra- ment : How come you to deny to the Church , the power of introducing Confirmation as a Sacrament , and yet to allow it the power to appoint it , as a fo- lemn renovation of the Baptifmal Vow ? Certainly, whatever be the difference betwixt the two , yet the unqueftionable Rule , that in the houfeand ordinances of God , men are not , without Divine prefcript , either to add or change, dothequallie refute innova- tions of all forts. 3# You fpeciouQy obtrude your Confirmation , as a folemn renovation of the Baptifmal Vovvj but, ifyouconfider the thing, asitftandsin the Article, whereby it is enjoined, it is plainly the Bishops folemn benediction of young beginners, for the increafe of knowledge ; wherebv it is mani- feft , that your defcription , importing the young be- ginner his aft > is manifeftly different from the thing , (being the Bishops -aft ) which you undertake to maintain, But 4. Whatever way we take it, its An- gular folemnity, wherein its form con fifts , is not •only without all Scripture- warrant, but plainly fuper- fluous ; feing that , as the Bishop or presbyters their bleiiing is not thereby bettered, or materially diffe- renced from their ordinary benediction ; fo the ordi- nary profellion of beginners, in their examinations , and efpecially their after-partaking of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, doth more then fupply your pre- tended folemn renovation. 5. As this conceit of Confirmation, as it is explained by you , doth evi- dently clerogate from the Sacrament and Covenant of Baptifme* as to Infants -3 fo, your appropriating """". . the Anfwered. 291 the administration thereof to the Bishop, objctted by your N- C- in his next demand , doth yet more difcover its vanity and evill dcfign : To the arguments therefore whieh you bring for it , and i. to its Anti- quity : I anfwere, that the iimplicity andpilrityof the tirft Ages of the Church, knew it not: 2. As, its very rirft beginnings cannot be calculate , beyond the times of the Churches declination , fo , it is molt certain, that from an arbitrage well-meaning infti- tution , it hath fince been depraved to fuch an abufe > as may fulficiently juftify the total removal of its ufe. 2. As for your Scripture probability, from the laying on of hands fo notourly known to have been then only tiled , in the conferring of the extraordinary Gifts of the Spirit 3 or in the Ordination , or Million of Mi- nitowers, neither it, nor your alleaged alTentofmoft Reformers , do merite any anfwere. Next you tell us , in defence of Private Bapt ffme, That for w to confine the Sacrament r.l atVcns , to the walls of a Church, k grofs Suftrftitim: But, who would have thought , when you' clamour lb much upon our Non-conforming Meetings,you would haveiiumbl- ed into fuch a miftake? Our exception againft PW- vat Biptifme is therefore , not the want of a dedicated. Houfe , as you do vainly alleage ?- but becaufe our Lord , having , by his commifTion , annexed it to the preaching of the word , whereof it is the feal , and it feeing the Sacrament of our initiation into the Church- its performance doth evidently appear to be molt agreeable to the ordinary Church aflTemblies , where- ever held j befide, that peoples mindes, prone to fuperftition , may , by the practice of Private Bap- tifme, be readily inclined, both to apprehend the Popish abiblute neceillty of Baptifme , and thence to regard che exterior aftion , mere then the fpiritual T Z fi£ni- 3L92 The fifth Dialogue fignification and efficacie , is conrirmed , by unde- niable experience , both in your and the i\cman Churches : For the inconveniency, which you poor Jy exaggerate , from the di fiance of many Churches , the badnefs of feafons > andtendtrnzfs of Infants ; as , unto this day, it was never made the ground of a real! com- plaint, fo you should underftand, that the difpen ra- tions of Gods Providence do not alter the difpofitions of his holy will. From Baptifme, you pafs to plead for the private udminifiration of the Communion to Perfons on death- - bed , and this you think, the feafonablenes of its ufe> and the propriety of its ends tofuch a cafe } do abundantly ferfwade: To which lanfwere, i. That though at no time > Faith and Love need more to be quickened> the Death of Chrift more to be remembred,nor com- munion with the Church to be declared , then in the approach of the laft pangs , it will not thence follow, that therefore the Communion may then beprivatly adminiftrat : for , fince not the feafonablenefs of the fruits 3 but the warrant and Rule given unto us , is firft to be heeded , in the going about of holy admi- niftrations ; nay , fince that , without this regard duely adhibit , thebleifing and fruits are but in vain expected , it is evident , that barely from the exi- gence of the fruits, to conclude, in any cafe, the lawfulnefs of the celebration, is prepofterous Reli- gion , and worfe Reafon : Now 2. That the rule fee down to us , in this Sacrament , doth reprobate this your obfervance , is evident not only from that con- nexion, that there is and ought tobeobferved , be- twixt the word , and Sacraments : But , i . From our Lords own pattern in the inftitution , keeping this folemnity with the company of his Difciples, making as it were a little Christian Church: 2. Becaufe the Apoftle Anfwered. 29* Apoftle in his regulation of this Sacrament, accord- ing and with refpeft to his Matters pattern , doth fup* pole the Churches coming together into one place > and confequently the o-dinary Church Aflemblies , as a neceflary requifite , in the free and peaceable times of the Church: 3. Becaufe the very Myfterieof the Lords Supper, representing the union of Believers with, and their com munionin J futCbriji their H, ad and the name that it hath thence obtained , 1 Cor. 10. v. 16, 17. is not well confident with this private adminiftration: 'Tistrue, the Authors of your Arti- cles, no: being able to decline the convincing evi- dence of this reafon , do , among other preparations, require that there be three or four , free of lawful im- pediments, prjfenc with the lick perfon to commu- nicate with him ; but as fuch a packt Conventicle, bef d. other inconveniences , hath no juft reiemblance of the Church her ordinary AlTemblies j much lets can communicating with hand- weal'd companions be a figne of that free, equable and comprehenfive communion, (igniried by this Sacramen:; fo, it is manifeft, that the forementioned requifite is only 2 colourable evation , maniteftly acknowledging the force of our argument, & Infraudtm Legx, fiuVM verbis fententiam ejm circumveniens : But 3 . This your Private Communion is to be reprobate ; because , as thedecurr • bents faith, love, and other graces, in that hour of" his need , are only beft excited by the means at that time allowed and competent, and the fanftified re- membrance and improvement of other privileges, and ordinances , formerly enjoyed ; fo, it is certain* that this obfervance hath not only been abufedbythe Panifts, unto the abomination of their private Mafj ; but is alfo reie&ed , by the Reformed Churches , not Lutheran, as found to be indu&ive of vain Superititior, T 3 where- 294 The fifth Dialogue uhereevejr itisufed; and for this Ineed not go farre in fearch of confirmations , for you your felf in telling us , That your pratlice was very early in the Church , fubjoin , thztjuftbi Martyr fayes , theyfent of the Eu- charijl , to them that wereabfcnt, and that thejhry of Serap'ion flaws , how neceffary , Chriftians then thought it, to be guarded by this holy viaticum, which twoin- ftances , whether true or falfe> being generally held to be an excefs, both inclining to, andmtrodu&ive of vain Sup^rftition -} and therefore , reckoned among the firft Navi , appearing in the face of the Primitive Church, and now generally difufed , by all the Churches of Chrift, as they are by you ad- duced , do too evidently demonftrate, how much* both your fpirit andcuftomes, do bend to a relapfe> in thefe evils. In the next place your N. C. asks you What you fay for Kneeling in receiving ; fure this lookj like Supervision and Idolatries And in leturn ycu confefs, that it is the Article of them all , which you have leafi fondnefsfor. And this indeed, is ve:y fitly exprefled , in as much as ir is evident , it can be no rational or folid liking, which mclineth you , to any of them ; but fince even your fondnefs , as to this Article? is defective; how farre muft vou be from doing the thing in faith? And how much more found and Chriftian would it be for you, here to fubfift ? and fav , (ince , for want of the warrant of Faith > this Kjieeling cannot pofliblv pleafe God, let it be removed from his Holy Ordinance £ But you proceed and tell us , That fince the hjieders do declare , that they neither belicv: Christ, to be corporally prefent, nor intend am fVorfbip to the bread or wine ; but d:rcH their Worttip to God and Chrifiyfar that death which k therein [hewed forth , it is great uncharitablenefs (or us j to call this kjieeling IdoLtrie. 'Tis anfwered, Sir, as Anfwered. 29 s as in the general, 1 have as dull a facultie , and (mall an inclination? for conftruc~tive inferences, Specially in the worlerpart, as molt of men ; fo really, if the purpofe of this difcourfe were only a conteft of opi- nion , upon the practice of perfons , profeiling, as you fay, and gracing the fame with humility, meek* nefs , and fincere love of the truth, the great Apolo- gifts for a dubious penormance, for all the evill ap- pearances , which I findein this matter, I think I ought rather to informe, in the Spirit of meeknefs, by pointing out the error , then by a fevere naming of it, though juit enough , both involve in more doubt- full difputations , and like wife irritate, but feing our bufinefs lyes withfuch, who, having rejected and (corned all information , refilled yea gone over unanfwerable light , and shewed perverfenefs in prac- tice, do further go about, fubtilly to feduce, nay rigidly and violently to im.pofe upon others , who both haveefcaped and renounced thefe vanities: If the purity and truth of Gods Ordinances , and the very end of charity, do in this cafe allow , a more peremptory plainneis , I think your cenfure of our uncharitablaiefs altogether unfeafonable : Now that all your Ceremonies , but fpecialy this aft o£ Kneeling are Idolatrous , and that not enly reduEihe and parti- cipative , as theyfpeak; but alfo directly, and for- mally , by rendering Formalifts fuch , Gillejpie in his Englifc Popijh Ceremonies , hath fo fully demonftrat , and therein hath fo diligently fearched you out , in all your fubterfuges , and clearly difcuffed all imagi- nable pretenfions j that I should but wrong both him, andmyfelf, andthecaufe, by offering cither to repeate , or add : Only to convince you yet morej how little, in this affaire, I am inclined groundlefiy to taxe your way of Idolatrie : I grant that your T 4 Kneelers &9& The fifth Dialogue Kneelers do not only profefs , as you fay , which may afwellbe alledged for Worship done before a Ciuci- fixe, and yet doth not purge it o Idolatrie. But furth- er do acknowledge, the aft of receiving and com- municating to be no direct aft of Worship"; but firft commemorative, having the afts ofpraifeand thanks- giving , in the next place , refulting from it j and the gefture of adoration to be thereto only afcriveable ; yet, feing in mediate Worship , the we^arenecef- iarily objected , and of the very fubftance of the or- dinance , without which it cannot fubfift , it is mani- feft , that external adoration therein ufed , inevitably, enough neither rationally, nor intentionally , refpec- ting and relating to thefe objefts , muft of nectlfi- ty be Idolatrous : Forinftance, fuppofe a perfon abftrafting in profeftion , as much as you do from allrefpeft totheminifter, who in his preach- ing fuftaines his M afters perfon , and declaring, that neither rationally he could , nor intentionally did, attribute any more then becoming reverence to the word heard, should nevenheleis in hearing, ftill kneell , would not you and all men fay , that fuch an excefs were fupejftitioufiy Idolatrous? How much more then, muft this kneeling in the actual receipt and commemoration , (an aft nothing fo immediat betwixt God and the Soul, as that of hearing his word) of neceliity refpefting the Elements , in as much as without the prefence thereof, it would not at all be by you exafted , fall under the fame , yea a worfe, conftruftion? But, not to dip further in a difcourfe , which I have already told you> that I judge fuperfluous , as I have here exhibited the faireft in- terpretation of your way, and yet there is nothing found , even under the legal Ordinances , wherein she fifties and inftruments , often honoured with a *■• • vifibte Anfwered. 297 vifible Divine glory , were advanced to the higbcft pitch of a becoming reverence j that can, by any acl: ofadoration, thereto properly directed or relative, any where recorded, jufliiyyour pra&ice; fo , when itoccurres, that the famine is both contrary to our Lords own example, incongruous to the meaning, and endoftheinftitution, and laftly known to be in- troduced by a Superfhtion , that very quickly difco- vered , and brought forth , the molt grofs of all the Popish Idolatries -y how ftrange mud this delufion be> that not only retaineth , but prelTeth it upon others i But when your N. C. urgeth you with our I ords example of fitting in a Table-gefture , you rell him , That nonefiiouid alledge this , but fuch as communicate leaning, and after /upper , and in an up per Room: And wherefore did you not add . in thehou/e , where one car- rying a- Pitcher doth enter \ and in a citie like to lerufalem : and the like > thatfo the folly of your reply might have difcovered ic felf j without my medling? But the matter is plain: Our Lords example is to be our pattern and rule , both tor the fubftance , and in the circumltances properly reflecting its nature and ends 2 the fubftance of the inftitution , is , a myftehous Eu- chariftick commemoration of Chrifts Death, by the fymboles of Bread and Wine , ufedin the manner prefcribed: the circumfhnres are , that the famine be performed by way of a fcftivity , at a Table , and the like: thefe things being obferved , as the particu- lar roome , time and manner of the Jews fitting men- tioned in the Gofpel , were only accidental ; fo , the famine are variable, according to the cuftomes of e- very People , and Nation , without the leaft deroga- tion from the Lords Ordinance. Nay if you would but deall with ordinarie ingenuity , in thefe matters; feing that our Lords familiar converfe and Table-gef- T 5 ture4 298 The fifth Dialogue ture , adhibite in this appointment , is not the leaft teftimonyofthatcondeicendinglovc, thereby repre- fented, the juft and f aire imitation of his example, confining in the like familiar manner , ingenere aBus , regulate by a due decencie , doth equally rejeft , both the afTeftcd reverence or your impertinent Adora- tion, and alfothe other extreme of that rigid Apish conformity, in things purely accidental, whereby you go about to redargue our cenfure of your Super- ftition. But you fay, Sting the Jews, without any writ- ten warrant , did change the commanded pofture of the Paff-over , from flandingto fitting , and Chrift did there- to conform > wherefore may not Chrifiians , who are lefs retrained , change the firft gefture , which is not com~ manded-, and only lamely exemplified , by leaning*? 'Tis anhvered. The pofture mentioned , Exod. iz. 2i.in the inftitutionof the PalTe-over , is , that they Jhould eat it with their loins girded , their jhoes upon their feet , and their fiaff in their hand : there is no exprefs men- tion made of (landing. 2. Some are of opinion, that fuppoiing (landing to be imported , by what is injoin- ed; yet the pofture was particular to that eating, at Ifraels departure from Egypt , and that thereafter the pofture was free , in refpetl that the formal perpetual ordinance , given after the firft celebration , Exod. 11.4.3- makes no mention of the gefture ; and there- fore , that the Jews did thereafter ufe fitting , at leaft from the dayes ofjotyua , in (ign of reft and fecure li- berty: however , certain it is , that as our Lords pofture in eating the ParTe-over, whatever it was, was not contrary to the Divine prefcription ; fo , the Juvs their practice , acknowledged byyoutohave been the fame , can be no ground for your Superftiti- oiis innovation of Kneeling, introduced contrary to our Lords example , the Rule of theinftitution ; and both Anfwered. 299 bothintroduc'tiveof, and tending to plain Idolatries As for that greater liberty allowed to Chriftians f which you here plead ; as we have already heard , that you only alledge our liberty , from the former rigor , to the effect you may irnpofe your ne w yoke of a more irrational bondage ; fo , it is evident , that in this place you mention our freedome of Geiture, on putpofe, that you may enfiave us to the impofition of your Superfluous Kjieding : but he truely walketh at liberty , who keepeth the Lords Commandments. You shut up this Artick with* perhaps, that more ve- neration Js due to this aftion now , that our Saviour is exalted ; then be could have allowed of in I: is humiliation: But.- 1. the veneration, that you here fpeak of $ to tbeatVon, futticiemlyintimateth, that for all the pre- tenfesmade in the contraire, the Kneeling, which you plead for, is in fome fort relative to the Elements' therein ufed , and therefore Idolatrous. 2. your per- haps , unfoundly infmuats , that our Lord could not have allowed of the fj.iv,e adoration , now due to him in Exaltation , in the flats of his Humiliation \ which you know tobefalfe. 3. at bell, it is a conjectural intruding jntothefe things , which you have nor feen3 and fo not meriting any regard. Inthelaft place? you treat of the Article, anent the obftrving ofdayes , and denying that you pretend to make them holy dayesi you tell us , that it is another thing, to keep peculiar dayes of thanksgiving, for the great and fignal mercies of the Gofpd-difj>enfation , and in fucbci.iomes you can apprehend no evil-} ard re- ally? Sir -, I am confident you have feen as little good: buttobeshort , remitting what may be faid againft this Article, to the pious and learned Labours of thefe Authors , which 1 have already commended ; I only add , that although the confli uction which you put soo The fifth Dialogue put upon this obfervauon of dayes , is certainly the molt plauiible that can be made ; yet you know fo well) how grofsly thefe dayes have, in the Rjman Church, beenabufedto fuperftition and profanity, both in their dedication and obfervacion -y And it is fo obvious to any , how, tothisdiy,' the generality in thefe Reformed Churches , where they are obfer- ved , do , in the perf vafion as well as practice , con- tinue the fame abufe , that 1 think, fince they are only an humane invention , not good in icfelf, your own rule , p* 70. that , when fuch things are grofsly ab- ufed , then there is ground to change their up , may fu'Iv fatisfyyou, as to thejufticeand rcafon of our d if* fent. But you affirme confidently, that in all Ages of the Churchy chri iians have had a peculiar veneration for thefe dans : 'Tis anfwered , a veneration for thefe dayes , how doth this language agree with the above menti- oned interpretation , whereby , reducing thefe dayes, to the condition of a meerecircumftanceof aconftant Anniverfary thanksgiving , you go about to purge them of all further Supciftition ? But this wind of your vanity can not he hid: it is as the ointment of the right hand which bewrayethitfelf. 2. Thefe dayes, were not in veneration, in the firrt and pureft Age of the Church , whereby, both the generality of your afliertion , and your argument , from Antiquity , are fubverted: you tell us that the obfervation of Eafler and Pentecofli are clearly derived from Apoftolical prac- tices: what you underftand by Apofidical pra&ices , concernes me not, feing that the Apoftles , and Church, in their times , knew no fuch thing : And this Negative, provingitfelf, cannot be controlled; I grant, thefucceding Ages became foon fond of thefe vanities j but , what were the bitter fruites of con- tention Anfwered. 301 tention and fchifmej which the Lord in his jufhce > did u Fer this earely corruption to produce, isno- toaily known , and certainly fuch , as alone might have taugru the whole enfuing generations > to be mo.e tender or Gofpel purity and (implicity: Shall we then alio refufe inftruction t Bui you fay , Paul hajled to be at Jerusalem to keep the feajt of Pentecoji : Pray , Sir > be more fincere; all we rind in Scripture, is, that he halted to beat Jerufalem , the day ofPentecoft : And I appeal to com- mon ingenuity , if that any rational man , confident Paultobezjetv , andtohaften , againftone oftheir three great Feafts and Convocations , then by the Jews ltill obfervcd , to his own Countrey and its Metropolis » where the general and folemne con- fluence of his whole Nation was to meet, can thence conclude , that he went thither to keep the Feaft of Pentecojl , ill the meaning by you infinuate and requi- fitetoyour purpofe? In thelaft place you tell us that Paul fayeth ojthe legall holy dayes > he that regardeth a day , to the Lord he doth ngard it : Whence you inferre , that if Mofes his Teafls might have been kept holy to the Lord , much mere may thefe be , which the Church hath inftitute* Really, I am fo wearied with this poor fluff, that civility, forgetting it to be your own, dothalmoft prompt me to demand your pardon , for refuming it : The Apoftle P.:ul in that Chapter , is molt exprefsly declaring, our Chriftian Liberty , and its right ufe > and in the cafe of a weak Brother, efteemingoncday above another , belike from the difference made by Mofes Law, he only advifeth , that he be fully per- fwaded in his own minde , and feing he regardeth ic unto the Lord, he would not have him therefore udged ; Now tell me plainly , is this either the cafe I or 30 2, The V. Dialogue anfwered. or the controverfie betwixt us ? Are Bishops the weak Brethren ,.from the abiding imprefs , of a Di- vine difpenfation fulfilled and evanishing, but not ex- prefsly antiquat , tenderly and confcientioufiy over- efteeming and regarding certain dayes -y and therefore only pleading a charitable forbearance. Or laftly : Seing the Bishops do not only, without warrant* keep up thefe fuperititious obfervations ; but per- emptorily enjoin and impofe them upon others ; whereas the Apoftle in the fame place, doth both declare our Liberty , and , with equal care , prefcribe, that , feing he that regardeth not the day , to the Lord he doth not regard it -, that therefore he should not be judged: Are they not by the very Text here alledged manifeftly convicted Z But it is enough : And whether our diilike of thefe Feftivals, and the other Articles of Perth , be not well grounded , and your ofeferving and enjoyning of them both Superftitious and irrational , I leave it to the judgement of all the Lovers of Truth. The 30j Thefixth DIALOGUE Anfwered. SI R , To this conference , very vifibly con- trived for the commendation of your felf and your way , and wherein pretending , by fub- lime fpeculations and the fwelling words of a faire profdfion, to elevat Souls to the folid highes-, and true liberty of Chnftianity, you- plainly go about , to introduce a regardlefs indifferencie > iorall thefe corruptions and fuperftitious prafrices^ whereunto, in a convenient compliance with the prefent courfe 3 you cunningly endeavour to fubje&e us j you make your N. C. preface , That there is no good to be hop: djrem you , who are Jo fierce againft us » and to add with little fericus reverence, but God be tjtanlied an ill-willed Cow hath fhort homes : Whence taking the occafion, you tell us of your extreme aver- fion from tierce and violent courfes , your love to all Chriftians ? your pitie of iuch as you judge miftaken , and that you quarrel with no man for his opinion, in thefe 1 -flVr matters , Which are but the skirts and fub- urbsoj Religion, and fo forth. Sir, if Ccnfure were either m v Genius or office , how eafie were it for me , to ftrip both you and your partie of this your sheeps clothing : We have heard in the preceeding D'u- logu s , your frequent accufations of Rebellion and Faftiomyour virulent calumnies of the mpft inhumane, un« 304 The fix th Dialogue unnatural , and barbarous Wicl^dnefs that can be pa- ralleled, your infolent mockeries atfanciedmiftakes, and laftly,all trut hath preceeded , a continual quarrel about thefe things , which you call lejjhr matters, and all this > againlt the generality , nay , againft the whole of the Godly and iober in the Land ; but efpe- cially , the Lords faithful and fufFering Minifters ; and yet you have the boldnes, to wipe your mouth, and makeaboaft of your lingular gentlenes, Chriftian love , companion upon them that are out of the way, and tender forbearance toward difienters in letter things. But, I have already medled too far in this Contention , only , as I would not have men miftaken concerning you , fo , for preventing of their miftake of us, from your N. C- fuggeftion , I aflure you plainly, that though any man mayaffirme, without fear of a contradiction, that the Prelatick Spirit, mingled in the midft of you, is irreligious, falfe, fierce , jealous, cruell , covetous and proud • and, in thefe few years bygone , hath lefs or more appear- ed , in all thefe evill qualities $ yet as the feen fury, folly and prophanitie of your Bishops andCurates , and a fecret conviction, in all men , of the confift ?ncie of true Loyalty with the Countreys juft averfion from them, may in politick prudence, induce our Gover- nors to reftrainfome what of therageofthat Partie, which we are thankfully to acknovvledge , fo it is our Prayer to God , that he would lead the/n on , to a full and juft confideration of the true caufes of all our grievances , and to ferious repentance and returning unto God, who alone, with truth, can reftore unto us true peace and establishment. You fubjoinehere the late King's advice of Moderation to his Son, who now reigneth ; and would, forfooth, have us to be- leeve> that his words do exprefs both your opinion , 2nd Anfwered. 305 and temper: and really > though I cannot altogether acquit their (train of prejudice, nor carrie their de- figne higher then the ends of Policie ; yet they con- tain fo much of found reafon> and the later part of them> vi%. take heed > that outivard circum fiances and formalities of Religion devour not all , or the befi , encou- ragements of Learning, bidufiric, and Pie tie , is fo fadly verified , in the prefent condition of affaires , that I cannot but with wonder reflect , how fuch a rational instruction , taught to the Author , by long and coftiy experience 5 should at his Majefties return , have been fo much neglected , and , even to this day , after fovifible an accomplishment, fo little remembred? But the ufe you make of thispafTage, is only to be- wray your N. C. childishnefle , and shew a little of your own affectation , by caufing him firft to fay , It fe ems you are a Latitudinarhn > and then by youran- fvvering , that if by latitude be meant charity , you glory in it ; but as I have already demonftrat , in the fecond Dialogue , that it is conveniencie , more then finceri- ty , which relaxes and dilates your charity ; and j as it is too too evident, that it is the love of Peace, more then of Truth , which doth recommend men to the favour of your good opinion \ fo , 1 would have you to confider, that reElitudc, and not latitude , is the meafure and character of the waves of God : Nay , when I remember our Lord's words , Enter ye in at the fir ait gate ; for wide is the gate , and bnad is the way, that leadcth to defiruBion $ but fir ah is the gate , and narrow is the way , that leadcth unto life : The faireft glois , whereof your latitude is capable j cannot re- concile me to the defignation: It is therefore , in the ftreightnefs , yea and ftraitnes of this Rule, and in the practice of the new commandement of Love, that you may truly glory, but only in the Lord: The V af. 3©6 The fixth Dialogue afliiming of Names 3 other then cfoat of Chriftian , is but an emptie vanity , and that of latitude , is fo little expreifive of pure Chriftian charity, that you fee it is the very Go fpel. epithet of the broad way of dam- nation. In the next place , taking , as it appears , with this new name of La.rtudinarian, for all your difowning of it 5 within a few lines preceeding , you and your !N. C together, playing to others hands, compound aprettie garland orpraifes, for your felf, and com- plices : And where he acknowledged , That youlive very good lives, are ftrong wined People , found again ft Socinianifme , clear and \reefrom Popijh errors , you add on your part , That your principles are neither dangerous nor loofe ', that there are none greater haters oft arid ene- mies to, Atheifme -y that you give a rational and convincing account of Chrifiianity , to all clear witted men ; that with a due meafure of Charity for Papifls , and regard to the union of the Catholicl^Church , you d'fclame all errors , and give a mo ft clear and fcriptural account , of the points debateable ; and laftly , that even where the attri- butes of Gods foveraignity , andgoodnefs, feem to inter- fere, by faith > you fiope the mouth of ' tteal^reafon: Cer- tainly , then? the men of the latirude^re found , and orthodox men ; nay, no doubt, but ye are the people, ' and wifdome shal die with you* Yet, if I might a little fearchvou out, I would demand, i. Why you thus diftin&ly characterize your felf , under a peculiar na ne ; lor, that you do not underftand thefe Epithets of all your partie, nay, not of your Bishops? and moft of your Curates , is evident , even from the firft, whereby you aiTert, that you live very o-ood lives, which, I am certain , many of them do not fo much as pre- tend to t 2. If the principles of you Latitudinarians , be the fame , that we have fet down , in the preceed- ing Anfwered. 307 ing Dialogues , vh(. that preaching is not to be termed the Word of God-, and coniequently that Miniftersare not Ins Mefl'engers ; that the Church (and we know not what Church ) may antiquat and cauft to ceafe , tht obligation of practices , fetch as thewafl'iagof feet, and anointing the ficl^ with oil, though, as punctually and perpetually enjoined in the Scripture , as cither of the Sa- craments ; that Chrijls Kj;,gdome is fo inward and [pi- ritual , that Offices , and Officers , can no more be thence pleaded for , in the Church , then the fiamping of Coin ; that , ij the inward opinion be left free , no impofition upon the outward practice can wrong Chrifian liberty ; that extemporane prayer is butfancicall and carnal; that there is no pra;ing by the Spirit , unlefi in a manner and in words infallible ; that the English Liturgieis an excellent J{ide of Worf\\p \ and many fuch like things ; Cer- tainly , if thefe , I fay , be the principles of the La- titudinari.msy as they are yours , they are very loofs and dangerous, even fubverfive of the very founda- tions , the Word of God , and the Ordinances there- in appointed. 3. You take to yourfelves the com- mendation oivcrv good lives : I wish you may not be deceived ; the Phanfees made clean the oudide of the cup and of the plater ; but God requireth andfearch- eth the heart , and thefe things that come forth from the heart , eiiil thoughts , deceit , blafphemies , pride ,- fooli\\".nes , as well as adulteries , murders , thefts , thefe defile the man : What of thefe may be found in this little Volume of your Dialogues , efpecially , lies, ca- lumnies, mockings , it were too rigid for me to reca- pitulat ; I leave it to the impartial perufal of what both of us have faid : Only as 1 defire not to be ac- counted fo uncharitable , as to propofe this > as a pro- portional cognizance of all the writings and fayings of the men of your way ; fo, I heartily pray the Lord, V 2 to 308 The fixth Dialogue tomake all of you , indeed, retlitudinarians. 4. As for your firong wits , I wish you may be as little puffed up with the conceit of them , as we are terri- ofied by their oppofition ; that you do notabufe them to Atheifm , or Socinianifm , we chearfully accept of the acknowledgement : Only let me tell you , that though we be as loath , as you are , to deny Chriftia- nity> both in its Articles of beliefe , and precepts of pra&ice , to be highly congruous > to thedi&ats of right reafon ; and do grant, that Religion, the higheft accomplishment of Nature, is futeabletomans fu- preme faculty \ yet, that thus to propofe them , is the mo ft convincing way to all clear tvitted men , labours of thefe difficulties, 1. That? although there be not only as much obvious reafon , in the revelation of the Gofpel , as may ftop the mouth of all Gainfayers, and unanfvverably confound the vanities of Athtifm, and all falfe Religions , but alfo, fuch a Divine congruous light 5 as, once entering and difpelling the natural man's darkenefs, caufeth thefe things, which former- ly were to him as foolishnefs , appear tobethewif- dome of God ; yet, it is certain, that the things of God , depending folely upon his free , holy . and un- fearchable good pleafure , and decree, and being only communicat by the revelation , and receivable in the illumination of the Spirit , to think to propofe and enforce them , by rational perfwafion , for the con- version of men in the ftate of nature , is vain and pre- fumptuous : and therefore , if it be in this manner, that you do underftand your afTertion , vh. that thm to propofe them , is the moft convincing way to all clear witted men y feing , it both imports a fufficiencie in the pro- pofer , and a poifible capacity in the hearers , to con- vert without efficacie cf Divine grace , and the light of revelation ; it is doubly peccant. 2. In what fort /bever Anfwered. 309 foever your afTertion be undeiftood , the fuperlative preference, which it giveth to your way of reafon , dire&Iy impingeth upon the Apoltles their manner of preaching ; which was not with the wifdom of words, but in that fimplicity, which unto thefe> that fought after wifdom , was as-foolishnefs : It was neither by the Wifey nor by the Scribe > nor by the Difputer $ but God choofed the foolijli things of the tvcrldy to ccnfund the wife: Confider the Apoftles their Sermons , ye: extant ; fpecially Peters, not only to the Jews , but alio to Cornelius and the fir ft con- verts of the Gentiles , there can be nothing more fim- ple, either in peri\vafion , or in exprellion : Hear Pauls teftimony of himfelf [ and I brethren > came not with excellencie of /peach , or of wifdom , declaring unto yon , the teftimony of God y but was with von , in weaknefi, and in fear, and in much trembling-'] &c. and certainly, if you will be pleafed to ponder the reafon and end, which he fubjoins , vi%. [ that your faith Jhould not Rand in the wifdom of men ; but in the power of God ] I ou cannot but perceive > both the difference of this way from , and its excellencie above that of rational perfwafion, which you fo much commend. 3. As neither the undoubted congruity of Chriftianity to reafon once enlightned , nor the fuflkiency of reafon, by its own force, to redargue proud mockers and delpifers, do conclude its aptitude for the difcove'ry, explication, or right uptaking of the things of God , without the Spirit , which alone knoweth them -, fo, it is juftly to be feared , that this new method , of adventuring by reafon , without the teftimony of the word, to piopofe and explain thefe myftenes , do not only prove ineffectual , for true inftruc"tion ; but alfo inductive of the Authors themfelves-, into many mifprifions and errors ; For men to quite and lay afide V *_ the 1 1 © The fixth Dialogue the conduct of the true and only light which is the beft evidence and manifeitation , both of its felf , and of its objeft , and in a vain curiofity , to fet up and demonftrat by the taper of Reafom in thefunshine of revelation , and to endeavour, to caufe reafon lead or guide, which, with much difficulty, is able to follow , is a preemption , not more full of pride then of danger : Pad was a man very learned , long cxercifed , and no doubt mightily fervid in ail the Arts and Methods of. reafoning ; but from the time , that , that light from Heaven , above the brightnes of the Sun , shined about him , and laid him on the ground , trembling and aftonished, we find his fpeech in the matters of the Gofpel, was not with encifmg or perfwaflve words of Mans wifdom j but in de- monstration of the Spirit, with much fear : fome- time indeed he difputes , and thereby alfo confounds ; but it is his preaching that moftly converts. Think not that , by thefe reflections , I aime particularly at either the fault or fate of the men of your way : no , let their writings fpeak for themfdves $ but that there is fuc ha vanity, too much in prefent practice , the late, more pretendedly ration.il , then Scriptural , efiTayes or many , do too fadly evince. 4. You fay that you Latitudinarians art wither Pa- ftflsy nor CalTandrians \ but, ineffeEi, charitable Pro* tefiants , and that you are far from that bight of rigour , of damning all Papijis , which fome of us oivne. Tis an- fwered , That we are fufrkiently tender in this point, is notour to all, and this your challenge, if rightly underftoodofPapifts, that is of all, who live within the verge of and own the Church of Rome, is as groundlefs as your needlefs profeiHon of an uncontro- verted charity, becaufe they hold the foundation J 'efts thrift , though they build upon it , woody bay, and Ruble: I con* Anfwered. 311 I confefs that , feing thereby you plainly enough in- finuate , that Papi s , even at fuch, do not erre funda- mentally , and coiifequently , under this reduplication may be faved , it imports to me an excels, where- with we ought not to comply. To join with the merit of Jefus Chrift , that of their own good works, nay, of their own iuperftitious inventions^ and to his Mediation , that of Saints , feem to me to im- pinge upon the very foundation, which sou acknow- ledg \ What shal we then fay , of the avowed grofs Idolatries and Superftitions , ridiculous penitences and perverted morality, whereby, both the truth, and fpirituality of Gods Worship and Service , with the inward and genuine Grace cf Obedience and Sanc- tification , are fubverted i Really , Sir , theie appear tome, tobeafuperftructure o: fuch naughty ft uffe, as neither the fincerity of Grace , whh which I judge them incompatible , nor even the flames of their own purgatory , will ever purge awav. But you proceed : That though you will not fay, that all th'ngs contrs-erud , betwixt the Informed Churches and than , are matters of Salvation ; ya in their greater errors , fach as the Popes Supremacie , the Churches in- fallib'dityy th: con oral pre faice (?c. you condemne them, and perhaps on clearer grounds , then we do : 'Tis an- fwered , 1. That the things controverted^ with the Papih are not all of them fuch , as do directly and necefTarily , in beleefe or practice , appertain to Sal- vation, is not by us denied; but, where, in this your latitude, you do in effect intimate fuch a diflent from the Reformed Churches , as if many things be- twixt us and the Papifts , were neealefsly by us drawn in queftion , it is fuch an undervaluing of the will and way of the Lord , whereupon , even in our fmall- cft differences , we hope, wc are founded \ that I V 4 could 3 1 2 The fixth Dialogue could not pafs it, without an obfervation. 2. Wheth- er you do indeed condemn the Papifts , in many of the points by you enumerate,let be on better grounds, is to me very dubious i You fay , you are againft the Popes Supremacie ; but how is it then, that you have tranfferred it upon his Majefty , and that with a more ample extent, then eyer was conceded to, nay, or arrogat by any Pope < That the KJng , may enatl fuch AHs , and Orders , concerning the adminiftration of the external Government oj the Churchy and the Perfons there- in imployed , and concerning all Ecclejiafiicj^ Meetings and matters, therein to be propofed , ashejhall thinly fit* is more then any Pope ever afiumed : Pray , Sir, is the difference betwixt the perfons of the Poland Prince, the hinge of the controverfie ? Or, is this one of the clearer grounds, you talk of? confider it at your leifure. Jn the next place, you tell us , that you condemn the Churches infallibility, and yet, p. 3 1, of this fame Book, you affirme that even in matters , as punctually fee down in Scripture^ as either of thefe Sacraments, the Church may judge, that God did not therein intend any perpetual obligation , and, by her practice, oblige us to a ceffation , and confequently , alter Scripture- determinations : Befide , you know what power you attribute to the Church , to impofe fignincant cere- monies and other obfervances$ which , although you tell us , for an evafion , do not take away the liberty of inward opinion ; yet you a flume, that they do bind in Confcience to a conformable practice : Verily, ifaChurchfoimpowered be not infallible, the con* ceffions are too large • but the truth is, Scripture de» feBible , the Church fallible , and nothing fixed , appear to be moft aggreeable , to thelightnes of your brains, Znd the Convenience e of your new latitude. 3. You af- firme, that you are againft the corporal prefence ■> and alfo Anfwered. 3 1 3 alfo the worflvping of Images ; and yet , you arc for Adoration, to, berore,or,inorderto, theEliments: For call it as you will, you plead for it, as due vene- ration , in the a&ion , whereof , they are the neceffa. ry objects : how thefe do confift , I fee not : For my part, I cannot but judge, the Papifts, though more grofs , yet more cor>fequent. But we have enough of this fubjeft , and thefe iew inltances premifed may in- deed well juftify theexccilive love , which you pro- fefs to the unity of the Catholiek Church , wherein you include the i\oman-, aid your ffteem forfiich, meaning by Cajfandjr , and others of his way, who have ftudicd to bring things to a temper , dopalj ly hold our your byafs to their halt] I the un:ty and temper , that you aimc at , be c ^his tem- per, iince it hath not truth for its lounda..on,the Lord deliver his Churchis from it. In the nest place your N. C and you fall a quar. relhng, about Iufiification j and after you have fir it taxed , then fmoothed , and again , in a manner, re- je£ted:the P.ipifls their Iujirfication by works, an J theft Merit , you proceed to lufti ficathn by faith only, and when you have given us your explanation of it, you make a prettie bo:ift , as it, forlboth, by your right apprebenfion of things, you bad, in a jew words, told that, which , with much nicety fwels amon*fi us to Volumes : Sir, I fo greatlv de-fire to find you walking in the truth, and am fo little njove with contention, efpecially in a matter oi this impor- tance , that I am refolved , rather hu ely t o pais , then rigidly to (train , even your more ambiguous expref- fions ; but fince you would make the World beieeve, that , with you and you only , is to be found borh Truth and Light j and that, on the other hind, wc do perplcxe tins point , with Niceties wdfuktillitf, it V 5 will 3 H The fixth Dialogue will not be amifs , that in this matter , I examine you more particularly: which that J may performe , with the greater candor and perfpiciuty, I shall tirft exhibit your words, in their full context, and thereafter re- view them in parts. You fay then, That luftification and Condemnation are two oppofite legail ttrm.es , relating to the judgement jhal be given out , at the lasl d.ir. For though we are /aid to be condemned ahead) , this is only , that we are now in the ftate of fuel? , as jhal be folemnly juftified or con- demned. Now , at the gr:at day , we muft give an ac- count of our at~lio?:s , ahd we muft be judged accordingly ', but fince all muft be condemned , if God enter in judgement Ktththcm $ therefore God gave his Son to the death for us, that therein we mi^ht obtain Salvation: And all )ud- mentis, by the Father, committed to the Son : and Je- fus Qhrift hath propofed life , through his death , to at many as receive his Gofpell , and live according to it: And <*4 that , which gives m a title to the favour of God t is the blood of Qhrift ,• fo that which gives us an intereft in his death, is faith , with a life conforme to the rules of the Go ft pel, and the root of this new life, is a faith which wor- kethbylove, purifyeththe heart, and overcometh the world , and therefore luftification is afcirbed to it in Scripture', and this, you fay , is the right apprehenfion of things y both ascribing all to Chri ft, and declaring clear- ly the necefficy of ahoUlije. *Tis anfwered ; The mat- ter of Juftihcation, being, ineffeft, the very fub- fianceoftheGofpel, ana its light uptaking, of the greareft moment , in order to our Salvation , for as much , as you, by an arfe&ed fnnplicity , and fimulat fmoothnefs , do palpably laboure to involve and per- vert it \ I shal fii ft reprefent , in your words , and in its own colours, the error which you would impofe, and then difcuffe thefe reafons > and infinuations , where* Anfwered. 315 whereby you endeavour , rather cunningly to cover and convey it, then plainly co maintain it Thefcope then and aime of your difcourfe is , that thepropofall of lift in the Go f pel, through the death of Cbrift > is to as many as receive it, and Uve according to it j that , thai which givah us an intereft in the death oj Chriftt isjaitb with a li/ e c oujerwe to the rules of the Gojpil $ aud thatbecaufe o the fruits of faith, love , ptyity of heart , and vittorie over the world j therefore Jujiification is afcribeduntoitin Scripture. The meaning or which exprellions in plain language , is , that it is by good works, joined with faith? nay 3 by good vvoiks prin- cipally) and faith referred to them , as the root there- of, and not by faith only 5 as the inftrument , where- by the perfect Righteouh.efs of Jelus Chrift is laid hold upon ? and becometh ours , in Gods fight, that we are jufti tied. Now , that this your opinion is falfe> and is to be rejected, appearethby thefe many, and plain Scriptures : By the deeds of the Law there flial no ficPribejuftifyedinhisfight, Rom. 3.20. Themanisblef. fed , to whom God imputeth righteonfrnpe without works ^ Rgm. 4. 6. By grace m arefaved 3 not of works , left any man jliould boaft<> Eph. 2. 8.9. Not by works of rigkteoufneffe , which we have done , but according to his Mercv he faved w, Tit'}. 5. God was in Chrifl reconciling the world unto himfelf, not imputing their tref- faffes unto them, 2. Cor. 5. 19. God hath faved its with an hbh calling, not according to our workj $ but accor- ding to his own purpofe and grace, which was given MK, inChrijiJefuSy before the world began* % Tim. 1.9. He hath made him to be fin for us , who knew r.ofin 5 thai we might be made the righteoufnef, of God in him. 2. Cor* 5. 2i. Jefus Chrifi , ts made of God, unto us % Wif- dom, and righteoufnefs , and fa?i£tificatio>h M-d redemp- tion, *. Corrn, 1. 10, He ts tht L 0 h\D OUt\ t\IGR~ 316 The fixth Dialogue KIGHTEOUSNESSE, Jer.Z$.6. Wearejuf- tified freely by Gods Grace , through the redemption that is in Chrifl Jefus. Whom God hath fet forth to be a pro* fitiation through faith in his blood. Rjm. 3. 24, 25. By the right eoufnefle ofChrij}, the free gift came upon all men 1 0 the purification of life: and by the obedience of one (hall many be made righteous, Rjm. 5, 18. 19- We are jufii- fyed by the faith of Jefus Chrifl , and not by the works of the law, Gal. 2. 1 6. He that worketh not-> but believ- eth on him that juftifyeth the ungodly , his faith is counted unto him for rigbteoufneffe, Row.4. 5. And laftly, A man is yjftifyed by faith, without theworkj ofthelaw>I{p.5.Z$. This J hope is plain Scripture language , withourany fubtiky :How can you then joine ourvvorks of the Law with the righteoufhefle of faith, even the righteoufnefs of Jefus Chrift, which faith doth apprehend, & appro- priat for our Juftitication in Gods light , contrary to thefe moft manifeft teftimonies? Certainly, if men would but ferioufly examine and consider what Gods word doth fo plainly and rationally hold forth , anerand, veiling him with all power in Heaven and in Earth, hath made him the Head of all things , unto his Church , and committed unto him all Judgement > that he may,one day , render both vengeance unto the Difobedientand Unbelievers , and receive unto him- felf and the Fathers Glory , his own , who , through faith in his Name , are juftifyed in Gods fight, and by his gi ace purifyed , and preferved unto his heavenly Kingdom. This being then the plain Gofpel-revela- tion , to loft and condemned finners: what elfdothf it require, then, that in theknowledgeand fenfe of this our finful , wretched and miferableeftate.flovv- ing from Jefus Chrift our Wifdom, we, by faiths lay hold on him and his Righteoufnefle , for our ran- fome from wrath, and alone acceptation in God's fieht; 3 iS Thefixth Dialogue light \ and alio tor obtaining of bandification, confift- ing in the purging away of all filthinefs of the flesh and Spirit ; which the penitent Convert ;as he feareth its guilt and wrath, doths in like manner, deteft and abhorre ; and the perfecting holinefs in the fear of God: And laftly for com pleat Redemption from , and victoiieover, Sathan, the World , the body of this death it ielt , in the triumph of the Refurre&ion , and rhepIenariepoiTdiionofEternallife. By all which, it is evident, that whatever be thefe other graces and bleffings , which we partake , in and through our Lord Jefu< *, yet it is through and by faith alone , as aninftrumeiit , andinrefpeft of its peculiar aptitude for that end > apprehending or laying hold on Chrift Jefus , the only Propitiation , and his Righteoufnes , the alone Satisfaction , that we are juftifyed in Gods fight. And really, Sir, when in this iincere and clear light , I have propofed this matter , I wonder , what vanity or ignorance could feduce you , to the do&rine which you here deliver* To grant , as you do , Justification to be a judicial 2ft , whereby , no doubt , we are to underftand , that God as the grear Judge , attempering juftice with mercie , doth there- by accept of a Ranfome and Surety offered , and therefore abfolve , yea juftify the Criminal ; and yet, notwithfhnding of the evident Scripture teftimonies , that shew the Lord our Righteoufnefs to be , in very deed, this Ranfome and Surety, and faith only its in- ftrumental application , to join good works with it, and it-ate both , as the condition of our Juftitication , is not only reproved by the Papifts their more confe- quent explication , who 5 becauie they admit of works in Juiiifx^tion , do therefore hold it , not to be a judicial aft ; but rather a gracious work; but by the common fenfe of all men , in thefe ftmilare inftan- ces, Anfwered. 519 ccs , from which the manner of explaining th* fc things is borrowed: If in our ordinate Co:-ts, the Law being tranfgrefled , and the tranfgrci: r con, viewed, the pronouncing ofthedoomc of judgemc^*:, and its execution > werellopt, by thcinterpofiticncf a ranfome and furety offered , fo fully fatisiying and acceptable in the eyes of the judge, that, ior his fake, the poor Criminal were both pardoned and re- ceived to ipecial favour j would any rational man fay, that theperlon guilty , were thus abfolved and jufti- fyed , either for his aft of laying claime to the price and pledge* as a condition ; feingit is only the mo- ral inurnment, whereby the true motive of the ran- fomcrsfatisfactionis applyed ; or yet for the aft ic felf, together with the abfolved peifon his confe- quent good behaviour , whichis the parallel of your interpretation which is yet more abfurd ; And not ra- ther affirme plainly,that it is for the ranfome and fure- ty only , that the man is acquit and accepted? Cer- tainly commoningenuity , which muft acknowledge allthedefeftsofthis fimilitude, to be the manifeft advantages of the point , principally prefTed , will both cede to the conviftion of its evidence > aud trans- ferre it plainly to the cafe in hand. Having thus fet down a Scriptural and eafie account of this important truth % which (reflecting upon al- moft all Proteftant Divines , with whom in this we agree , and wandering in your raveries , after no bet- ter guid then P^Wc^thePilgrim)youfay>is byus band- led , with much nicenefs and fiibtilty: for its further clearing, and the better difcoverie of your vanity: I shal now examine your difcourfe in its particulars: and 1. you fay, Justification and Condemnation are two cp- pofite legal termes. By legaUl know you mean judicial , and therefore , in place of urging your miftake , I fe- rioufly 320 The fixth Dialogue rioufly wish that the tenor of what enfues, had been confident to fb true and lblid a ground: but you add: That they relate to the judgement jhd be given out at the hfld.iy: a Grange fetch to compaffe a falfe defigne, I might remember you, that the Scripture is expreis, "ttiat being juftifyed by faith , we have peace with God, through our Lord Jefm Chrift: and there u nov therefore, no condemnation to them which are in Chrift Jefus> who (by their aOured partaking of his grace , and in confe- quenceof their true faith in him, and Juftification therethrough ) wdh^not after the fie jit y but after the Spirit: and- that thence it is evident , that , as it is God that judgeth; fo it is by an aft of his free grace, in Jefus Chrift, antecedent to the laft judgement, that we are reconciled unto him , and juftiried in his fig1,:. But your own words, ~ji\. For though we are faid to he nowjufifjed as the unbeleevingare faidto becon- demned ahead) , this is only , that we are now in the ftate offuch , as jhatt be folemnly jujlified or condemned ; do fufficiently reprove you , becaufe , i . It is certain, that the unbelieving are not, impro- perly, and with refpeft only to that future judgement, faid to be condemned already -} but, as by reafon of fin, judgement is already come upon all unto con- demnation, and he that beleevethnottheSon shall not fee life, is under the curfe, and the wrath of God abideth on him ; foit is manifeft , that now it is, that they ftand tritely under the condemning power and fentence of Gods holy Law , from which , it is moll unqueftionable, that condemnation doth directly pro- ceed agiinftall tranfgrefTours; how ever , in the for- bearance of God , they are not only for a time repriv- ed , but place left for a nnfome. 2. To be juftiried freely through grace, doth plain- ly import , the perion juftiried to be antecedently under I Anfwered. 3 ax Under condemnation ; ir by the offence , judgement had not come upon all to condemnation , there had been no need or the Right'.oufnes of Chrift , to the Iuftification of life: How then, cantheoppoGtein- ftance of Condemnation , be by you referred unto the laftday? Far lefs made an argument to deferre, untill that judgement , our Iuftification , which of necclfity doth preiuppofe it : Certainly , you cannot but grant it to be moft abfurd , to think , that Believers shall » in that day , be firft condemned , and thereafter juftiried. 3. When you fay, That it is in that day, that mm foafi be folemnly juflifitd or condemned , you clearly re- folve the matter : vi%. that as the foiemnity of the judgement of that day , shall be only declarative, and finally executive; fo it evidently concludes, that the judgement , then to be pronounced , was given and eftablished of before. Pray, Sir, do you think the Spirits of juftmen made perfect, are not as yetjufti* fied? But 4. you grant , that we an now in the flat e offuch* dt foali befolemnily juflified or condemned ; which clear- ly shews ; your infinuation premifed to be only a de- (igne, to obfeure by words without knowledge, in as much , as the queftion remains the fame, anent this ftate , and how we now attaine to it , as anent the juftification, which you would deferre: And i. What is the ftate of Iuftification i Is it not that we who were under the Curfe and aliens , are accepted unto favour, pardoned , and brought near t Wherein doth it then differ, from actual Iuftification? 2. How is it, that we attain to this ftate * Sure not by works , either alone , or in conjunction with faith , as we have heard from Scripture , and shall be further evinced. But if it be by faith alone , as the inftrument laying hold on X thi 3 iz The fixth Dialogue the fole meritorious Righteoufnesof thrift , our dif- ference is only verbal , wherein you foolishly refile from Scripture phraie : If you shall further add, that by faith we do indeed attain to thisftate, but only inchoatly, orunrixedly, and changeably, then you evidently impinge , both upon the perfection of ChriftsRighteoufhes?and the faire and certain grounds of the Saints their perfeverance. It folio vveth in your difcourfe , Now at the gnat day we mu'l give an account of our aElions , and we mufl be judged accordingly : And I note in your enfuing words Thatfiiice all mufl be condemned, if God enter into judge - rarnt with them ,and that not only , if he should charge us With our tranfgretfions , but even if he should onJy reckon with us , upon our good works , and for that imperfection and weaknefs , wherewith , as they are from us, they are tainted ; doth not the certainty of this judgemeut ., above all things , plead the neceili- ty, and alone fufficiency of the Righteoufneisof Jefus Chrift, for our Juftirkation? But to reftore your words to their own channell , you fay , thatfince all mufl be condemned , ifGed enter into judgement ; therefore God gave his Son unto the death for us , that thereby we might ebtain Salvation : And though by this paffage, it be clearly enough imported j that it is before God, and by the fentence of his Law., that all men ftand con- demned ; and that therefore , he hath given his Son , whofe Death andBIoud is the Propitiation, and in ' whom he is welipleafed, to be aranfome, for libe- ration and acceptation to all that believe on him \ wherebyjuitifkation.by faith in jefus Chrift, without the deeds of the Law , is in fubftance granted ; yet for ushering in your good works , to share with faith, in Juftification , by aitrange connexion , you fubjoin : And all )udgemmt is committed by the Father t&theSon , and Anfvvered. 32J and JefusChrij} bath proofed Ufa through his death t4 46 many as receive his Gofpell > and live according to ita But I mud take notice. 1 . That by laying down the dm million of judge- ment given to the Son , as a ground to his propofing of the Gofpel offer, you manifeftly repugnetoour Lords own words and teftimony, exprefsly diftine. guishing the character of his fi ft comings which was in the form of a fervant , to minifter, not to be minif- tered unto, and by performing the Fathers command- ment , to five the World , and not to judge it ; from that of his iecond coming > which shall be with power and great glory , to th'j Salvation of all that look for him j and to judge and to execute judgement upon all> that are ungodly. 2. By making our Lords commifiion to judge,' antecedent to his miniftration of the Gofpel , you in- vert Truth and plain Scripture-evidence , whereby it is clear } that our Lord was firft fent into the World, to preach the Gofpel, and lay down his life for finners; that , whofoever believeth on him should not perish 5 but have everlafting life: And then, becaufe of his compleat, and peireft obedience, is exalted to be the Head of all things, unto the Church, and hath Authority alfo to execute judgement committed to him , becaufe he is the Son of "Man. But. 3. By this your doctrine , you in effect fub- vert the grace of the Gofpel, in as much as, in the place of the Gofpel-covenant, offering pardon and peace to poor loft finners , through Chrift Jefus , and, with and in him , all grace and glory ; you introduce our Lord , as having , bv his death , indeed merited the privilege of a new offer of life unto finners -, but making and renewing the fame , in no better termes , then thefe of the Law - covenant *3 for as the Law X 2 fayethr 314 The fixth Dialogue fayeth , that the man that doth thefe things shall live by them i fo , you tell us , that the termes of the Gofpel-tender , are to receive the fame , and live ac- cording to it : Now , if the Law doth offer life , to fuch as receive and live according to iv, and our Lords propofal ftand in the like termes > admit the propofers not to be the fame ; yet the propofals are certainly coincident : and therefore , although the eternal trani- a&ion betwixt the Father and the Son , may be of Grace ; yet it is undeniable , that , in your opinion , the tenders of the Law and Gofpel , as to us-ward 5 do rune in the fame tenor; and the condefcendencc of both , prerequiring our works 9 is equally to be reckoned of debt : Thefe being the confequences of that Gofpel. method, by you here contrived, and its deligne no lefs evident , to make works with faith> the condition and procuring caufe of our luftifica- tion , at leaft in the fight of Chrift , as the Judge ap- pointed : I add *, I* That your attributing of Iuftification to Chrift , as judge ordained over all , in the laft judgement j is contrary to the Scripture , that telleth us , that it is one God that juftifieth > it is Chrift that died > marke the diftinttion made ; and no doubt , reafon it felf in- forming us , that it is the Law and Law-giver, and not the Judge , which define dune , determine paines, andcondemnethetranfgreflbrs , pcen he is not the princi- 'Anfvvered. 315 principal Author and efficient , but onfy the merito- rious caufe of our Iuftification ; not the very aft , but only the folemn declaration thereof, can be afcrived to him , in this capacity ; unlefs you can conceive , that our Lord is not only, both the Ranfome, and the accepter thereof, but that , by becoming the Pro- pitiation , he alfo becometh the partie to be appeafed, which are palpably inconfiftent. 1. The plain Scripture-truth , in this point , is that our Lord havingcompleatly obeyed the will of God j and being made perfect through fuffering , is therefore highly exalted above every name , and hath all power and judgement committed to him ; where- by , as he doth , here in time > enrich with all Grace, guid , fupport, andpreferve all that beleeve in him t and alio over-rule , reftrain , and punish all his , and their Adversaries • fo , shal he, in the laft day, appear, firft , to receive and welcome all his redeemed ones , formerly juftified by his Righteoufnefle , and fancti- fied by his Grace, unto his Fathers joy: And then with them , to judge the reprobate , and take ven- geance on all , that know not God , and obey not the Gofpel : by which it is evident , that Juftification pro- ceeding from God , for Chrifts fake , and neceflari- ly preceeding , both our Santtification here , and Glorification in the laft day , cannot be referred unto that judgement , which is only declarative and exe- cutive , according to thefe words , Come ye blcjfed of my father , nor explicate , according to its feneme : And therefore > although our Lord do therein , for our encouragement in well doing , and the commen- dation of the riches of his bountie , make mention of our good works , and shall certainly , in that day , alfo crown his own free grace in us > with a reward ; yet , thence to mferre , that our Juftification before X 5 God, 1 26 The fixth Dialogue God , and in order to his holy juitite > having for its alone caufe, the Righteoufnes of JefusChrift, and imported in the conipellation > ye bleffcd of my Father, is founded? on our weak love> aud ftant charity which , even the Righteous in that day, feeme asham^ ed to owne , is both a groundless error, and high prefumption. But I proceed to your next words vi^f That Chrift Jefm hathpropofed life through his death , to as many as receive his Gofpel and live according to it. That, this is a manifeft perverfion of the tree Grace of God, whereby our Lord Jefus doth freely hold out himfelf unto us,not only for to be ourRightebufnefle for Justi- fication, but alfo our San&ification through his Spirit, unto the glory of God ; and therefore doth not re- quire our holineile , as an antecedent condition, feing, it is indeed his own fubfequent Gift , the obvious evi- dence of fo clear a truth , may fufficiently confirme , and the following argumeuts do unanfwerably evince. 1. Our Lords own words, the fureft Rule for understanding the propofal controverted , do contain a free tender > and not the termes by vou reprefented : Hear what he faith to Nicodemus : Whofoever beleeveth in the Son of man , fhall not peri lh , but have eternal life : For Godfo loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son , that whofoever beleeveth on him y fliould not perifh , hut have everlafting life , John 3. 15, 16. J o/;« addeth, be that beleeveth on the Son , hath everlafting life, chap. 3. v.%6. And again, our Lord iayeth , this is the worl^ of. God , that you beleive on him , whom he hathfent :And this is his will > that every one which feeth the Son , and be- leeveth , may have everlafting life : Verily verily J fay unto you , he that beleeveth on me, hath everlafting life. John.6. 29340,47* Surely ehefeare Gofpel propofalls, yea the Anfwered. 327 the very fumme and fubftance of its offer , whereof your condition of a conformable life > maketh no part : I might add P.iuVs words to the Jailour , believe on the Lord Jefus Chrifl , and thou frail be faved ', but it is fo much the ft ram of the whole New Teftament, that it were unneceffary to enlarge, 2. I f w hen we were Enemies , and not for works of Righteoufnefle > which we have done , we were reconciled unto God? by the death of his Son , then thepropofal of life, and Juftification, is made through faith in his Name, without the condition of thefe good works, which you join with it; but fo iris, that the antecedent is plain Scripture ', therefore that the confequent is identick with it , as Juftification and Reconciliation are , cannot be denied. 3. That which is the end of our Election, Calling and Redemption by Jefus Chrift, & is his undertaking for us , in that refpe'et , and is the fruit of our faith , and or our acceptation therethrough , yea , and is the product of the Fathers care over us , as accepted in the Beloved , cannot be faid to be required of us as a condition antecedent to our juftification , no more then the fame thing, can be thought, to be really both antecedent and fublequent. But fo it is , that we are chofen, and called to be holy, and created in Ckrift Jefus unto good works ; through faith it is, and that not of our [elves ^ it is the Gi I o God , that we become partakers of Chrift , for Reconciliation , and of all his graces for Santtification ; and laftly we are in him, Gods husbandrie ♦ that we may bring forth the fruits ofrighteoufneiTe. Therefore Sec. 4. Your requiring of good works , together with faith , previous to our acceptance by Jefus Chrift , is an uncertain and defperat thing, in as much, as it is evident, that unlets we be firft accepted of him, X 4 and 3i% Thefixth Dialogue and united to him , it is not pollibie for us to do any thing : without me you can do nothing , are our Lords own words. Say not that this Argument equally mi- litats againft previous faith , if weidid hold faith, as it >s our aft to be required as a proper poteftative fore- going condition of our acceptance, the objection might be of fome moment; butfince wedoarfirme, faith to be only the inftrumental aft > ( to which the word of power exciting ) the Soul doth thereby lay hold on j and clofe with Jefus Chrift , it is thence manifeft> that immediatly, without any other pre» *equifite,he becometh our propitiation,peace, and all. S . To thefe may be added , that this your Doftrine joining good works to faith , for attaining to our Lords acceptation, fubverteth the peace , taketh away the joy of Beleevers , checketh Paul's exultation , in his fo much profefTed aflurance of the love of God in Chrift Jefus ; and laftly , as to (inners in extremity , called immediatly before the twelfth hour ,removeth all ground of hope ; but I am already too full , in a matter fo clear , andfo largely handled. by many more able Pens. I might here fubjoin , that as your joining of good works , as a condition with faith, in the pro- pofal of the Gofpel, isarpanifeft perverting of the free grace of God , upon which thefe good works , having a fubfequent dependence , cannot , by any reall antecedent influence , poifibly move it ; foyour turning faith , by this conjunction , to be a motive of the fame nature , and to be alio refpefted in the quali- ty of a condition j is a palpable depravation of its ufe, and comfort. Its true, our Divines taking the word condition > in a large fenfe , as it fignifieth any thing prereqtiired , do ordinarily fay , that faith and faith only is the condition, on our part, of the Gofpel- covenant ; but that it is not therein a condition , as a con- Anfwcred. 329 condition doth properly and Lgally import : -jq. that which, though by convention only , yet hath a me- riting or moving influence , upon the other parties performance , and fuch as works , previously re- quired , either in the Cov nant of works , or in that or Grace (as you would have it,) certainly hath , and can have , no other , I rirmly maintain. I further grant , that the requiring of faith > as a proper condi- tion , doth no lels exaft the exiftence of the thing , then if it were repute to be neccflary as an inftrumenc ; yet that it clearly changeth the office of faith > in the new Covenant, unto that of the condition of works, under the old ; and that by refpe&ing it as a condi- tion , on our part , it doth diminish that immediac regard , we ought to have to , and comfort , which we derive from , Jefus Chrift and his Righteoufneflc, tendered unto us to be laid hold upon, as the alone motive and fatisfa&ion , acceptable to God for our Juftitication , cannot be denied. But I go on with your difcourfe . you add > ^Ahd as that which ghctb us a title to the favour of God , is the blond ofChrijl ; fo that , which give th us an intcrefi in hit death , is faith > with a //, e conjorme to the rJes of the Gofpd: But palling your conjunction , and this your third and which 1 am certain would require more ftudy, to difcover therein a connexion, then you did adhibire in the ufing ; let me ask if the bloud of Chrift giveth us a title to the favour of God , is it not then the fufficient , and ible price and purchafe of our Iuftirication , in his fight ? And muft not faith its alone proper application render us accepted to the Beloved ? What then can your 5 So , further import, Vi^.fo, that which giveth an intereji in the death ofCbrift* is faith, with a life con forme to the Go/pelt Can you, or any man elf, conceive, that a man by faith alone X 5 it 3 30 The fixth Dialogue in the propitiation , the bloud of Carift, should be reconciled unto God ; and yet not attam , to an in- tereit in Chnfts death , without a holy life , fuperad- ded and concurring, in the lame caufality? Nay> thtie things are plainly inconfiftent: 2. The faireft fenfe that your words can bear , is rhac , as we are re- ftored to a capacity of favour with God , by the bloud of Ghrift ,♦ fo , it is faith , with a life conforme to the Gofpel , that gives us an actual intereft in his Death, and thereby unto the peace of God . but feing the remit of this , in plain language , is no other then, that our Lord, having by his own bloud ranfcmed fallen and forfeited mankind , hath in liew of the firft Covenant , made with man and by him tranfgref- fed , propofed to us a fecond , adding to the condi- tion of a holy life , required by the firft , that of be- leeving. That this is altogether diffonant , both to the declared love of God, and the grace revealed by JefusChrift, in his Gofpel, anyChriftian may dif- cern. Your next words are , And (a fourth *And) the root of this new life is a faith , which worketh by love > pu- rifieth the heart , and overcometh the world', and there fore Jufiification is afcribcd unto it, in Scripture: But pray, Sir, how is it, that faith becometh fuch 2 fruitful root? Is it not by laying hold on Chrifts Righ- teoufnefTe, by which, pardon being obtained, and we reconciled unto God, we have right unto, and fo do attain, in due time, thebeneriteofall the pro- mifes of Grace , which , in Ghrift Jefus , are yea , 2ndiAmen< or, that the fame faith, which layeth hold on him ,as our Righteoufnelfe in Gods fight , doth alfo unite us to him , for San&ification , and in- graffingus , as it were in him , through the commu- nication of his grace, punfieththe heart, and over- cometh Anfwered. 3 j i Cometh the Worlds Or laftly, is it not, that >r faith we are brought to the bloud oiSprinkling which is both the bloud of atonement , thatfpnnkicih from anevjllConfcience^andalfothe Laver, which c eauf- ech from all (in, and wherewith we are ancci; ed ! This being then, the Scnptu;e accounr , and t being moftappafcnt, that Chrift, through faun, Decom- cth , hi(\ our Righteoulnefle, for remiiiion of fin and Juftttication in God* light , and then ou: San£h& canon unto Good works- your own acknowledge- ment , that faith is the r-^ot of this new lift 1/ balirujs> may evince, that a holy .ife , fubfequentto iaith , and our acceptation therethrough, cannot be therewith joined, as a condition, for our Juftification. But that which folio weth in your difcourle , and therefore ( i. e. becaufe of the above enumerat fruits, v\ hich it producethj Juftification is afcribed unto faith , in the Scripture: is, the groffeft error or all , becaufe I. It directly repugnes to Scripture , clearly intimating , that it is unto faith, as the inftrument only , whereby the Righteoufneflfe of Jefus Chrift is unto us applyed , that Juftification is in Scripture afcrived. Jf we be juftifyed by the faith of Jefus Chrift , and if, by the RighteoufnefTe of Jefus Chrift, the free gift cometh upon all, to the Juftification of life; if he be the pro- pitiation , through faith in his bloud $ and our righ- teoufnefle, whichisof God by laith, are you not affrayed to fay , that Juftification , requiring a fatis- fa&orierighteoufnefTe, is afcrived to faith, becaufe of its poor, andimperfett fruits in us , and thereby to (light and vilipend the perfect Righteoufnefle of Chrift, the immediat object, whereon it layeth hold, and our only acceptation in Gods fight i z. Becaufe this your error derogates from Divine juftice. We have already heard you call Juftirication a legal or judicial 3 j s The fixth Dialogue <*& , and confequently , an aft , wherein free grace doth not more favour the loft finner , then juftice doth regard a valuable ranfome andfurety: If Iuftification then be afcribed in Scripture to faith , this muft cer- tainly be underftood , either as faith is in it felf, oris relative to a compleat and adequatfatisfaftion.Now, to think that faith in it felf , or as it is an aft ? or habite, which is the Gilt of God ; or its fruits , which , (be- fide, that they are alfo the gift of God > and our dutie as from us, are mixed with muchweaknefs and 1m- perfcftion : or laftly , that any thing elfe then the Kighteoufnefle of Jefus Chrift apprehended by faith , can be commenfurable to holy Iuftice, is more then redargued) by the fimplepropofal. 3. This your a- fcribing Iuftification unto faith 5 in regard of a holy life, which it produceth, doth no kk detraft from the praife of the glory of the grace of God where- in he hath made us accepted in the Beloved: Is it the praife and commendation of this wonderful love , and grace, that he fpared not , but gave his only be- gotten Son , to be a ranfome for finners ; and that it is in the Beloved , that we are accepted and juftifyed; and should not you be ashamed to fay , that it is unto faith , as the root of a holy life , and not as it doth refpeft and take hold on him , who was made to be (in for us , and knew no fin , that we might be made the RighteoufnefTe ofGod in him, that Iuftification is in Scripture afcrived ? 4. This your error , as it is contrary to the Scripture, and derogatorie to the Righteoufnefie of Chrift , the Holinefle of Divine juftice, and the Glory of free Grace \ fo, it is the manifeft produft of, and cannot but be a moft dan- gerous temptation to , that inward and fpiritual pride, in the heart of man, of all fin the moft fubtilly infi- nuating , deeply rooted , and pernicious: A price , •r Anfwered.1 331 or fomcthing meriting, or moving? at leaft of our own , is that which the natural man liketh well ; nay knowethnot how to renounce: was it notafubtile and ftrangecrTcft of this pride, and corrupt felfe? Shall 1 give my fir ft -born for mvtranfgre/Jion, the fruit of my body for the fin of my foul ? When as the thing required by the Lord , was to do jujilv , love mercy , arid walie^ bumbUwith God. And; whence did the Jews their ftumbling at the Gofpel proceed 5 Was it not , thac they went about to eftablish their own righteoufnefle ; and therefore, they did not fubmit therafelves unto the Righteoufnefle of God t Say not, that this accu- fation againtt you , is unwarranted: I know you tell U5j That your explanation afcribes all to Chrijl , through, whom it is , that our finnes are pardoned , our fenices accepted , and grace and glory conveyed to us , But it is evident, that thefe are but vain words ; in as much as, though you here tell us , that our fervices are ac~ cepted through Chrifl $ yet almoft immediatly before > we heard you fay, that it is faith and a life conforme to the Gofpel , by way of antecedent condition, which givesusanintereftinhisbloud: Now, that our fcr- vices cannot be prerequired , by way of condition , to his acceptance of us , and alfo only accepted as per- formed by us, in him ; is of it felf manifeft. 2. Though you should, more clearly, andconfiftently, afenbe all unto Jefus Chnft ; yet by turning his grace into a condition , the fubtilty and folly of your pride doth but the more bewray it felf: For, as (imply to ob- trude our own good works , which in the acknow- ledgementof the moft exact and confident legalift , are both commanded and given us of God , is a proud preemption; fo, the more you attribute either the ftrength or the acceptance of performances unto the grace of God in Chrift Jefus , while , in the mean time 334 The fixth Dialogue time , you do ftill arrogate them , as a condition on the creatures part , you the more declare the folly , but in nothing diminish the finfulnefTe , ofyour vani- ty. Thefe things need not to be illuftrat: queftion- lefs , who ever doth confiderhis loft condition, by reafon of fin and wrath , and hearkeneth unto that fun- damental Gofpel-precept , denytfa felf, imprimis all felf-righteoufnefle , andbdecvei will rinu the power thereof fo deeply defending into his Soul , that all the defire, tiuft, and hope thereof, will be fixed on Jefus Chnft alone , and to be found in him > not having his own righteou'neffe , which unto his fincere reflection , will be f o far from appearing a condition , that it will difappeare as dung ; but true Righteouf- nefle , which is through the faith of Chnft , the Righ- teoufnefle which is of God by faith. But who can fuf* Hciently declare and regret the madnes and ingratitude of this pride of man ? Jefus Chrift is made of God unto us j Righteoufneffe j and yet we will thereto join our own? for Juftification in Gods light : He is alfo made unto us Sanclification , that in Him we may bring forth the fruits of holinefte uiito the glory of God -} and the very fame fruits , will we im- propriat , to be the condition , and , as it were , the price of our acceptance, even with himfelf, whois our only acceptation, and our all. Sir, be not de- ceived, as they who in the fight of fin , and fear of wrath, flee unto Chrift alone, for a refuge, dofinde his Righteoufnefs , not more fuffkient , then freely offered, to every one that willeth , for Juftification in Gods fight; fo , your Doctrine, requiring both faith and a hoi v life, as the previous conditions , to give an intereft in Chrifts Death , and afcriving Jufti- fication. to faith, becaufe, forfoorh, of the pitiful fruits of our righteoufnefle , and not that perfect Righte- Anfwered. $ 3 5 Righteoufnefle of Jefus Chrijft , which it doth appre- hend , is wholly diflbnant unto the method of the Gofpel , and cannot poiTibly attain its end. What shall be then (aid of your enfuing words i Now judge » but a little , what it is , to have a right apprehenfion of things ? fince J have , in a few plain words , tdd yon that , which with much nicety , fwels among you , to V** lumes : Really , Sir , if I may ufe the liberty of an- fwering , by you permitted : I would fay, what a fad thing is it, to have a wrong and conceited appre- henfion of things • fince you have in a few involved words , in fuch a manner , obfeured and confounded a plain point of truth , that not withftanding of exprefs Scnpture-light ; yet it hath neceflarily required a great many word*. , clearly to unfold it. There re- mameth now to be considered the main reafbn, where- by as you shut up , fo > ou would feein to enforce, the opinion which we have heard : and that is the ne- cefiicy of a holy life , which you fay , Your way of Juflification , doth clearly declare ; at Wing thaty where- upon we jliall be folemnly judged , jujtified, andabfolved, at the lafl day : and after ward , you add , That it may correB the error of many carnall Chriftians > who love well to hear o. Salvation , by the death ofchrift » provided they be bound to do nothing themfelvcs , that they may befaved, 'Tis anfwered. i. That there are many fecming Chriftians , who have a name that they li\c and are dead, who have and do delight in a form of knowledge, but want the power; of whofe delufion , the error which you men- tion, may be a part, is an old and true regret: And yet the explication by you delivered , being fo many waves unfound and peccant , as we have heard, cannot poifibly be an antidote. 2. As thefe carnal Chriftians, pretending to lay hold 336 The fixth Dialogue hold on Jefus Chrift for Righteouine/Te , and ytt wholly neglettmg the ftudy or holinefs , arc , of all men , the moft fadly deceived , and mod wretched deceivers ; fo , your manner of Juftification , dero- gating from the holy Iuftice of God , and the perfeft Righteo ufneiTe of Jefus Chrift , flattering the natural mans pride? to which, of all vices, we are moft prone , and feducing fouls , from the free Grace of the Gofpel, cannot be lefs dangerous and pernicious. But 3 . This your reafon , lor departing from Jufti- fication by faith only , as encouraging to licentiouf- nefs, is ibdireftly the objection which the Apoftle Paul taketh notice of, and fully anfwereth , after his having declared the truth of Juftification , as by us profened , that we are thereby exceedingly fortified: The paflageis thus , the Apoftle having shewed, that it is by the Righteoufnefle of Jefus Cnnft, that the free Gift cometh upon all men , to Iuftirication of life, and that it is by the obedience of one, that many are made righteous • and fumming up the whole matter , that it is grace that reigneth through RJghteoufneffe , unto eternal It e , by Jefm Cbrifl our Lord ; he fub- j oineth , What (hall we fay then ? frail we continow In (in that grace may abound, f Seing it is not by our works, but of free grace, through faith m the Righte- oufnefs of Jefus Chrift , that we are juftified from fin, shall we therefore, in as much as fin commendeth grace , and our good works availl not , continow in fin , that grace may abound t The plain infinuation of what you object : Now hear the Apoftles anfwere both for us and himfelf. i. He fayeth juftification by faith only , cannot encourage to fin ; becaufe fuch as do thereby , truely lay hold on Jefus Chrift , partake of his death, and are made conformable thereto: How ftall they then , that are dead to fin , live am longer therein ? AnfVered. 337 thmin? Sin may indeed remain, but that rhe- who through raich in lus Death j are planted uuhelikeneflfe thereof? and become as crucified with him, should live any longer in fin, is not poiTible: To the lame purpofe it is , that the Apoftle Jobn» iaith , ivkoforjer* 16 born oj God doth hot commit fin , aud he cannot fin , becaufebeti borno; Cod: And yet, it any ralfe pie- tender, should therefore lay, either that he cannot tranigrefs , or that his tranfgreffions are no fins, and fo hcenfe himfelf unto wickednefs , he but deceiveth himfelf, and the tru h is not in him. 2. Paul (aich that Justification th. ough faith inr orte.h a mo^e cer- tain ailiirance of good works , then any thing by you urged. The neceifity of bood works , winch ye plead for, is only that of a condition , ftricT indeed* as to its obligation; but very uncertain, if notdelperat, as to its caufe and reall exiftence; being previoufly re- quired , unto our acceptance by, and being in, ( hi ift, as J have already shewed : whereas the Aroftle tells us plainly,that according to the truth o- |uftiHcatiOn5 by him and by us alTe'ited , the ntxeffity o go^d works, is caufally certain, depending upon fuch in- fallible caufes , that whereeve:- troe Faith is, tht ftudy of holmefs muft neceflfanly en tie j and where this is not, the pietenle of Faith , and Juftirication hereby, is but vain andgroundleiTe: For(eingby Faith, the only requifite , on our part , for Juftincation , we are not only dead indeed with Jeftis Chrift unto fin , but planted together with h'm,in the hkenefs of his Re- furrection , and alive through him unto God , that we alfo should walk in newnef. of life , the nteeffity of holmefs is evidently therebvas muchaiTured , as the acts of lite are in their proper principle: How can it then be alledged , that , in our wav , the ne- celllty of holinefs is lefs fecured , then in yours i Nay, Y fuch The fixth Dialogue fuch is the certainty of this truth, that true Faith in Jefus Chrift , is the root and principle of the new life of holinefs , that , as it is by you acknowledged ; fo, I cannot but wonder , how reafon could fo quickly defert you , as to think , that any neceiTary effect > fuch as you muft grant good works to be of trueFaith, can be rationally joined with its caufe , in theconfi- deration of a condition , which your difcourfe im- ports? If fire or life were » in any cafe, required as a condition, he that should thereto join heat or mo- tion, neceflarily thereon dependent, were plainly ridiculous : I need not take notice > of what may be objected , from thefe feeming Beleevers , who , be- caufe of their profeffion , are faid to be in Chrift, and yet for want of fruits, to be cut off ; as it doth not more militat againft us, then againft you , who ac- knowledge true faith to be al way es fruitful \ fo> it anfwereth it felf : But 3. becaufe by necellity, its like that you do underftand , the obligation to holinefs , as if, in your way, it were rendered more binding and prelling , and thence would commend your ex- planation, as more engaging unto a holy life; I shall not here refume , what J have already declared , vi^. 1. That to prefs the neceility of holinefs, antece- dently to our being , and acceptation , in Jefus Chrift, is vain , and fruitlefs. 2. That to join our imperfect holinefs, with Chrifts unfpotted and alone furficienc RighteoufneiTe , which is faiths value, isproudand prefumpcuous; but rather reprefent thefe true grounds of the neceility of holinefife , which are found in our way, equally, yea more obliging, then all your vain pretenfes. And 1. We fay with the Apoftle, that the holy and juft and good Law of God remaineth in its entire force? threatning and condemning all fin; vvhereever founds Anfwered. 339 found ; and as the poor (inner convi&ed , is thereby urged to flee for refuge unto Chrift, who alone de- livereth from the wiath to come; fo, he who ex- pecteth Salvation , by the Death of Chrift > and doth not witnefs the truth of his profef lion > in a holy lite , is , in to farre , no lefs expofed to its ft verity and ter- ror -, neither can the Beleever finning , whatever may be the difference of his ftate in Gods fight , more pretend to the peace and favour of God , without re- pentance renewed, and faith in Chrift reacted, whence the ftudy of holinefs will undoubtedly revive and flow ; then the wicked , perfiftingin his impenitence: What is then the difference betwixt you and us i You muft acknowledge , that the great obligation of holi- nefs doth defcend from the Law of Uod; and we grant that this holy Law continued! , in the fame force and power , againft all fin ( I fay not finners^ vvhereever found, whether in the Beleever or Unbe- leever } fo? that thereby, in our way, licentiouf- neffe to fin muft be equally excluded. If you fay> that by requiring Faith alone for Iuftirication ,we re- laxe the ftudy of holinefs ; I muft again tell you , thac true faith in Chrift Iefus , the thing which we require> cannot be without the ftudy of holinefs : Next , if any perfon should thence delude himfelf unto licentiouf- nefs , the Holy Law of God remaining in the fame feverity againft it , cannot but , in our way , where- in that high aggravation of turning the Grace of God unto wantonnefle, is more maaifeft , bealfo more powerful. If any man go on to urge us with the pof- fible delufions of prefumption and libertinifme,w here- unto the Devil both hath, and may abufe the truth and free grace of God, he but fighteth with the Devils weapons , whereby mans wretched frailty is indeed difcovered ; but the truth , by Paul plainly afferted Y 2 againft $4-0 The fixthDialogue againft the like cavillations , and by us owned , not in the leaft impugned : Nay > I may further affirme, that as alienor is deludon, and inductive of more; fo, where one hath been tempted to abufe the propo:»l or free Grace , hundreds , through Natures pride, both defiring, and overvaluing propriety , haveftumbled upon this your fodefcrived conjunction of our good works,and fallen into that, not entire fubmitting unto the Righteoufnefs ot God , and a going about to efta- blish their own Righteoufnefs; by which fin, the rock of Salvation became unto the Jews a rock of of- fence. 2. As the Law , in the fe verity of its fan&ion % doth ftiil abide in force , to deterre from all (in , to bring in and reclaime unto IefusChrift our Rightcouf- neffeand alfo our Sanctification ; fo , its more binding Authority , derived from the greatnefs and good- neis of God, its own hoi inefs and perfection, are, upon none fo powerful , and in none fo effectual > as thefe , who , through faith , have hid hold on Chrift lefus, for Righteoufnefs, and therethrough alone have attained unto peace. I need not tell you , that true repentance , dif covering the finfulnefs , as well as the guiltinefs of fin , cannot but endeare holinefs ; and that God appearing in Chrilt Iefus,in that inconceiv- able glory of his Holinefs , I uftice , Love and Mercy, and jufti tying us through Faith , in his Name, cannot, but beget a deeper reverence , and a greater regard to his will and commandments \ then all the thunder- ings of mount Sinai , the greateft motive to holinefs in the conftmition of your way. But whenlconfid. er , that Ckrifi ntbe end of the Law for Rjgbteoufiiejle , and that the Law through Faith is not made void , blft more eftablished \ and therefore we are chofen , and created in him unto holinefs , and good works , to the Anfwered. 341 the Glory of God • when I obferve the connexion , that God hatheftablished, and his word holds out, becvvixt Juftirication and Sanctification : (i.) In his purpofe, Eph.i.q. 2Thefi.2.i$. (2.) In hispro- mife, E^ 36.2^,26,27. Micahj. 19. zPet.i.q. (3.) In his precept, Tit. 3.8. (4.) InChriftspur- chafs, T/>. 2. 14. (5.) InthcGif't of Chriif tohis people, iCor. 1.30. (6) Inthefinceredefireof and great d. light in holinefs , as well as pardon , recorded of the Saints, in all the Scripture, fpecially Pfal.51. CT 103. 3. (7.) In the defcription of IuftihVation , given us by Paul , in the firfc 6 chap. Rom. and Gal. 2* 1 fenoufly wonder , how you , or any man, can doubt, but a holy life , both in its obligation , and alfo in its performance , is , by the way or I unification by Faith only, molfty aifured. 3. in the way of Juftifieation by faith only, not only the obligation of the Law of God remains , in the manner declared ; but alfo , our Lord , for our further encouragement unto holinefs , hath gracioufly intimatj thateventhefe good works, which weper- forme in his ftrength, shall be, by the fame grace from which they flow , alto gracioufly rewarded: Wherefore the Apoftle faith , That being made free from fin , and become ftrvants to God , we have our fruit unto holinefs , and the end cjcrlaCiiyigli'c. Now then » if there be a conftraint in love and gratitude, above thcperfwalionoffear; and ifthedefire of reward be powerful , above the apprehenfion of punishment , thefe confederations are certainly cumulative, and> in our way , above any thing that yours doth contain. That I may therefore fum me up thisdifcourfe, anent the neceility of holinefs : Know , that without holinejl none jhallfce the Lord : But hence it doth fo ill follow, that holinefs by way of previous condition , is to be Y 3 joined 34x The fixth Dialogue joined unto our Faith , in order to our Justification > that on the contrary , as God hath elected us in Chrift Jefus to be holy j fo> he alfo juftirieth us through Faith in his Name , not becaufe we are > but that in , ani by him , we may be partakers of the glorious riches of his free grace j in begun hoiinefs here? and confummat holinJs id Glory hereafter ; and hereby is our obligation unto and ftudy of hoiinefs , fo far from being remitted j that it is both promoved , by the fame (landing rierie Law againft all fin & ungodli- nefs , and ftrengthened , by that alfu'ficiency of grace, which is inChriftJeius for our compearing, to whom, through Faith , we are united: Andlaftly, we are bound and encouraged unto it> by all that is mod binding in the Laws Authority , and obliging in Divine bounty. To all which , this consideration may alfo be fuperadded ; that, as the exercife of hoii- nefs remaineth with us , (till under the obligation of Divine precept, and is certainly the end and effect of our acceptation in Gods fight ; fo , the fame being the neceflary confequence, and in feparable effect of beleeving- and thereby becoming its moll aiTured tell , mull , upon this ground , ftirre up as effectually unto the truth and Gncerity of Faith , whence it flows, and which doth again incite to the fincere , clofs, and con- ftant lludy or hoiinefs , by a reciprocal influence, as your vainftating of it, as a condition in our Justifi- cation , doth but lamely perfvvade its perfuite. But I haflen to the laft part of your difcourfe, viz. That it is u'jon thituceffity of hoiinefs that we fliall be fo- leranly judged juftif/ed And abfohed at the laft day : I cannot no v enlarge upon thefe millakes , that are. again by you crouded into thefe few words , it may here fuffice, that I tell you, that it is without all doubt , that > on that day , all men shall be folemnly judged Anfwered. 34? judged? according to the holy Law of God ; and therefore feing , by the dads of the Law > there Jhal no flefh btjufiifyedin h* fight , The righteoufnefs of God, which is by faith of JefusChrift unto all > and upon all them that beleeve , without the mixture > or con- junction of our imperfect righteoufnefs, in the often forementioned refpeft , is only thereby the more re- commended 2. Where you fay , thatitisuponthis> fo underftood , necellity of holinefs , or upon our ho- linefs, that we shall be, in that day, folemnly jufti- fyed and abfolved , you erre , and impinge moft grof- ly , contrary to Scripture. evidence > the value ok Chrifls Righteoufnefle , the holinefs of GodsJuftice> and the glory of free Grace, as I have already demon- ftrat. 1 grant indeed, that, in that day, when our Lord shal gather into one, welcome > and appear: glorious in , all Beleevers, he will alfo confefs them before his Father, and the holy Angels, comme- morate their charity and good works , and , in the exceding riches of his bountie , reckon his own grace in them,unto the increafe of their reward ; but thence to inferre , that it is upon our holinefs that we are juf- tifyed , and abfolved in Gods fight , is deftitute of all truth and reafon : Nay , the very figure of that jud- gement , wherever reprefented in Scripture, bearing, only , in order to Beleevers, their folemne recep tion and welcome from our Lord and Saviour, as fuch, who are already , in him , blefled and juftifyed , and by him redeemed and fan ftifyed , doth, moft plain- ly, and powerfully confute it. And thus, I hope, I have evidently demonftrat, not in the language of men, or in Schoole termes, which on purpofe I have declined; but in the exprefs revelation of the Gofpel , that , that Do&rine of yours, which you make your NC. onlytotaxe, Y 4 as 344 The fixth Dialogue as lingular in itspnra'e , and you you. lelfdo the more commend, a^ being clofjy Scriptural 9 is in eff.cl > both vain and antiitriptural , m matter, as well as expretlion. What vou mean by preferring the jtikof the Catholic}^ Chur hto Modirn and Schoiajtical txpr^f- fiov.s , under which the Doctrine or all theReioimtd Churches is unavoidably compnfed, le others judge: buc as f>r the abates which vou mention , vi^.the pre fir p. to,. Oj fich . mboltxk to hear t>j Salvation bv the Death ofChr ft. provided they bt bound to do nothing them- J "elves > that they may hi -av.d: feing the:e can be no- thing more engagingj and effectual unto holinefs , then that, which in Scripture termes wedoaflfert; ?i%. Tharwe are laved* and called with an holy cal- ling , not according to our works , or doings • but according to nis own purpofe, and grace, given us inChrift Jefus , the fin thereof remainerh with the Authors , and pui-e and certain truth , is neither thereby leflened , nor ought to be (rumbled at : And therefore having fully redai gued the falsehood of your Doctrine, and the vanity or all your pi etenfes, that I mav , once fo. all , vmdicit this mod precious and important truth ,ot Jiyijicution by Faith only, from all calumnie j and warneall ofthatdelufion , which you would , very unjuftly , make proper to our way ', I plainly and pofitively affirme,that the ftudy of holinefs is a moft neccflary and indifpenfable dutie , unto the juftifyed Beleever , i . By the neceiilty of Divine pre- cept , at length above declared z. By the necellity ot loves conftraint ; holinefs being both amiable in it felf , and the high path way leading unto the feeing andenjovingof God, who therein delights. 3. By the force of fears perfwafion, in regard of Gods fa- th rlydifpleafureagainftallfin ; a motive moft ten- derly perfwaiive to all ? that are truely godly. 4. By the Anfwered. 545 the obligation ofgr aitude , which is indeed the cords 01 a nun > and cannot buc powerfully engage the Be - leever to t he conftant ackno wledgement 01 God's free love, and grace, and to walk wor h\ or him, who hath delivered us aum death , and called us with lb heavenly a calling. 5 . Koi the manifestation , to our felves of our faith, andjuftiiyedftate , toour own peac. and com. 01 1. 6. For tne adorning of the Gof- pcl , to the edification ol others ; nay, in a word ? if our felicity be in God; ifglorybeou'deiire j if free grace be the molt powerful! attrad we 3 andfurficient help -} and 11 there beany dread and terror from Gods difpleafure, the fiudy of holmefs , is bv the united for.ee of all thefe motives , moll ftiongly recommend- ed » and by the wonderful tree love ol God , inour Jurtification , though faith in Chuft Jeius , only yea inrinitry intended. Jn the next place , <'our N. C. having acquit you of Pope.iei how juftly, or unjuftly , Heave it to the Reader : You m ike him fav , but are you not , ^A RIMINI AN St And to that I mult confefs, in the words of your N. C. you anfwere with fo much Legerdemain, that you a.e not eafily difcovered \ yet thefe lew things are manifeft. I. That luch is the ftrange extent of this your lati- tude? that it is moreincimeable , and favourable to anv Sect or Fartie > then Conlcientious Non confor. rrifts: liyoudeal witn Papifts j then all their grofs Idolatries and fuperfti nous > yea and their horrid Re- bellions and Cruelties , are forgotten > and they for- footh , hold the foundation , and only bu:ld upon it wood > hay > and ftuble: And vou earneftly wish for a temper , which > undeniable experience shews » yourpartie hath endeavoured after, at the rate of a hundred fold more condefcendence , then is required Y 5 to 346 Thefixth Dialogue to the appealing of all our complaints: If Arminians > come in your way: not one word of all thefe errors , fo highly injurious to the Doctrine of the certainty & immutability of Gods holy Decrees ; of the freenefs and efficacie of his Grace ; of the extent of the merit of Chrifts Death ; and to the comfortable truth of the Saints Perfeverance j nor yet of thefe diforders and tu- mults 5 wherewith , we know , they have infefted the Reformed Churches : but away with tbefe contro- versies , the itch of multiplying , and canvafjing fubtill queftions , hath proven the chief j> eft of the Church: It k good to be fiber- minded: And, thus? we fee? they do indeed vent, profefs, and feduce, according to their pleafure 5 whereas? if this your tendemeffe of Re- ligion , and fober-mindednefs , were reall , would not thefirft more readily teach you? that the departing from the fimplicity , and humility of the Gofpel , hath been the viiible inlet to all the wickednefs , and darkneffe , at this day in the Church of Rome* And thefecond, that in nothing fober-mindedneiTe , is more fober,then anent impofing upon fuch.as do really fcruple in Confcience , things that the Lord hath no where commanded : which two? are the hinges of moft of thefe debates, which at prefent difturbe us. Now on the other hand , how you have treated Non -con form i fts , all alongs , I leave it to your own, and every mans obvious reflection: Rebellion, Hypocrify , and Peevishnefs , you, falfely, make their ordinary Epithets 1 And for your inclinations towards them , a short look forward exhibits them inVerfe , wherein, after your approbation of the bloud and fynings ? that we have fuffered , you rnelo- diouflyfing, This Anfwered. 347 Thisflrange diflemper doth all skill defy : Phyflcians hopes \\ili Jalfify, But as a joint , which Gangren doth corrupt , Mufl be cut ojf, from the found lump > Bitter the body grotty a flump ; Then by fuch members , bancl^rrupt . And then again , left fuch rigour may prove a ftain to your Chnitian and Cachohck latitude, you add a forbearance tor us , fuch as it is , wherein , though your own interelt plead tor a delay \ yet you can ior- give nothing , it is only •% Till brimful be their cup ; Then chaffed jujtice , /hall the chaff devour, And Angel, reapers bring the Juft to Heavens floor: This, this, [fear, is the infide of your pretended charity ; and it but too plainly evinces , that all your proleiled ftretches of a faire and comprchenfive Lati- tude , are, in their regard 10 us, but the lo reed pro- duct , ofyourown convenience. 2. By youroppoiingtothe Soveraignity of God> which the Arminian opinion doth proudly impugne, his infinite Goodnefs, and Holinels, which they make their great pretenfe ; and declaring , that the recon- ciling of thele attributes is beyond your capacity -3 it is evident , by refolving this objection in the common difficulty of the unfearcheablenclfe of Gods judge- ments , both by them and by us acknowledged , you take part on their fide ; however it is not my purpofe to draw you unto debate; the Counf.l of God, though impei fcrutable , yet it ftandeth lure , having this fcal, the Lord knweth them that are his : The Soveraignity of 348 The fixth Dialogue of God > though paft rinding out j 5 i;t it only fo much the more , eftablisheth the liberty and cercainry of his Decrees , without all shadow of unrighteoulhefie , and in Head of interfering with , doth plainly render , both his Goodnefs,and Holineis , the more eminent, and glorious : Thefe are the refie&ions , that the A- poftle maketh upon this fubject : Pray confider the paflTage, R^m* 9. where the Apoftle, after having shewed , that before the children had done any good or evil 3 God in his free purpoie according to Elec- tion, not of works? but of him that calleth, preferreth the Younger , and paffeth by the Elder , loving Jacob but hating Efaw , to vindicate the Righteoufnelfe of God, which is your {tumbling, recurreth to his So- veraignity, having mercie on whom he will have mercie, and whom be will hardening ; And he is fo far irom con- ceiving with you , that the Soveraignity of God , on the one hand, and his infinite Gooonefs and Holinefs on the other , are to humane capacity irreconcileable attributes ; that it is from this high Soveraignity , that he not only deduceth the excellencies of mercy , and illuftrateth the glory of Gods power, and wrath- but rationally anfwereth , the proud reply of poor clayes carnal arguings againft the Lord , its infinite maker , and free and abfolute difpofer . But you fay , that yo:t may well take hts own 01th for it , that he tal^eth nopleafure in the death offmners : A nd fo you may in - deed very fafely , if either youunderftand it , of the death of finners , (imply and abftra&ly initfelfcon- fidered , or with refpeft to his ferious call , to them to repent , and live , as the context of that paffage doth hold out ; but if you would thence deny , that God willing to shew his wrath , and to make his power known, purpofed from all eternity, to pafs by fuch, on whom hewilleth not to shew mercy, enduring Anfwered. 349 enduring with much long-: uttering the vefTells of vvrath> fitted to deflru&ion •, you dire&ly contradict the Apoftle, and all thefe other Script ure-paflages , whereby God , and the Saints their rejoicings , in the manifeftation of his n'ghteous Judgements, are clear- ly holden out. But 3. wishing to you > and all men, much fear, fobriety, andScnpture-fimplicitie , in the Doftrine of this high myftery of Predeftination, and not urging further the defigned indifFercnce, which , under a faire general, you clearly go about to introduce, for all ^Arr, iiiim tenents ; my earneft defire is , that the Rule, which you give for a conclufion , may indeed botn ftint cunolity , and duett praclxe, Vfy Let none of our goodb: afcribed to our fehes , and none of our evill be imputed u,\to God. You proceed to make your N. C alledgeour Mi- nifters their jealoufies , of this your new way; that you may again appeal to , and make a boaft of your fruits; but fince 1 have , without boafting, abun- dantly fesrehed , and shaken you , and left all to open view \ I alfo referre the judgement , to that mod righteous cognizance. But now, you are wearied of thefe your wranglings, and therefore you refolve to leave thefe dry , and arid matters, and talk a little with your N. C. on better fub]tHs. Sir, your refolution is juft and good \ only tranfferre not the faults, of your vain , airie, and infipid reafonings, upon the matters themfelves by you treat- ed: If you have foolishly and petulantly impugned , not only the work of God , and his Covenant, in thefe Lands ; the Ordinances , of the Government , Difcipline, and Worship of hisHoufe; but alfo en- deavoured to unfetle and fubvert the very founda- tions of J uftiiication by Faith in Chrift Jefus? without the 3 5o The fixth Dialogue the deeds of the Law; a lent Gofpel-minifterie , de- termined Sacraments , and Chriftian Liberty } And if your N,C pretending to be the Refpondent, hath on the other hand , mamfeftly betrayed the Caufe , by fuchafaint, ridiculous, and abfurd defence , as you were pleafed to fuggeft , the folly of this your wrang- ling remaineth with your felf alone; the matters there- in handled , as they continow ftill to be the firme truths , fignal bleilings , and efpecial means given us of God, tor the declaring of hisGlory, and the pro- moving of our Salvation , and are not by your dif- courfe , in the leaft , prejudged \ fo , they are fo farre from excufing , that they greatly aggravat thefe je- june and guftlefs Methods? wherewith you manage this your conference ; but forefeeing this cenfure, you cunningly caft in our way , the mention o f better fub- jeEts } whether with a defigne thus to evade , or by your infinuat diftin&ion betwixt the forgoing matters, at dry , and arid, and your fubfequent (peculations 5 as thele better things , only to be purfued, to drive on the deceit of an irreligious indifFerencie , fo much at prefent ffodied by the Adverfarie,and his Emiflaries, let others Judge? Two things only I muft fay: i. That to go about to fmooth the World , with the preten- tions of fublimeand Seraphick attainments , and > in the me?n time , from thefe hights , as it were , but really, in a convenient accommodation to every guife, whereunto carnal eafe doth invite , and outward peace perfwade , to flight , defpife , and labour to relaxe from , the confeientious obfervance of thefe ordi- nances and midfes , which the Lord hath given and appointed, as the only way, leading to himfelf, and the felicity of his favour, is the moftdeluiive appea- rance of an Angelick light, wherewith Sathan can poilibly palliat his blackeft enterprifes. 2» Though your Anfwered. 351 your fubfequent difcourfe were much more found and candid, both in its tenor and fcope , thentruelyitis; yet, therein to figure your felf, to be, as it were, a new burning, and shining light, teaching your N.O. in fuchaftrain , as if all of us, whom by him you per- fonat, were wholly ignorant of the truth of Religion, both in its methods, and ends ; and altogether itran- gers to its life , is vifibiy moredifingenuous and arro- gant, then (incerely charitable: Say not that I am ill natured, if you find thefe words a little more point- ed, its you that hath sharpened them: Nay, if I should aflume a furder confidence of boafting, in behalf of the Lords Minifters , and the true Seekers of his face, found amongft us, according to the meafureof the grace , which God hath diftributed unto us, and even become a fool in glorying, for the abafing of your felf-flatterie , I do neither want a juft provocation, nor a clear precedent, for my warrant. But feing there are feveral things by you here propofed , which may be for the ufe or edifying , toaferiousandconfiderat Soul , and wherein a real union would indeed prove a moft effe&uall corrective , both of finiftruous de- fignes, and evill mixtures; I shall therefore wave the direct profecution of fuch difcoveries , and wish- ing that, that power, light, and life, which is in true and pure Religion , may indeed end all our diffe- rences, I heartily join my afient to your fubfequenc difcourfe, with all the harmony and affedion , that truth doth allow. That fome do place Religion wholly in debates , others in external Forms , others in fome privat devotions , others in the regulation of the out- ward man , and others in certain inward fpeculations* and felf.devifed ftrains , are things not fo ftrange , as grievous ; but as to know the Father , the only true Cod, and Jefus Chrift whom hehathfent, is the fumme 3 5 1 The Gxth Dialogue fumme and fubfhnce »>; Religion, and Eternal lift, in which proiettion we a e all ag-eed ; io, it is the power of this knowledge 3 defcmdihg from Chnft Jefus ourWifdom. aria apprehending hiflfij foi Righte- biifnefle, Sanctification , and Redemption, whichts moitlv , and moft ladly waiving: it in theconduct thereof, men were abhorring and den* ing themfelves, and in the acknowledgement of him , who hath called us unto Glory, and Virtue , laying hold on thefe great and precious promifes, which in Chrift Je us are all yea and amen j then , from the application of His Rightecuneiie should the peace of reconciliation, and joy in the Holy Ghoft abound ; from the com- munication of his life and grace, should the Divine feed propagat , and d-.ffj e it felf througnthe whole man \ and from and by this tru'h , and power of Re- ligion 5 Believers should be tranfformed > into the likenefsand image of God , audr ndered partakers of the Divine Nature, by which) it is manifeft , that as Chrift Jcfusis the only ioundation ; lo it is , that in him ajone, there is Salvation, neither if there any othtr name under Heav< n given amongft mm , where- by w emu ft be faved : The power, as well as the re- ward, of Natures light, was long fince forfeited in xAdam\ and though in the fucceediig Ages, God left not himlelf without a wit nefs, in that he did good, and gave the invisible thing1 of him , from the crea- tion of the World, to be clearly f en i being under- ftood by the things that are mad , even his eternal power and Godhead 5 yet, the ungodlineft of men ftill prevailing , and holding the tru' h m unrighteouf- nefs, this weakei light , fe ved onlv to render them without excufe : 'ris true , rhe Patriarchs were burn- ing and shining lights; but k was from Divine re- velation , and the oracles , and pro miles of God in which Anfwered* 15 J which they faw Chrift's day and rejoiced, and not from natures light , that this their radiancy was derive ed : The dawning opened by Mofes , had certainly 2 great fplendour, and therein Chrift Jefus, the end of the Law for Righteoufnefle , was very obferyably held forth ; but as it pleafedthe Lord to vail the glory of this difcovery , with many types and shadows * not making it a great ridle , as you do unadvifedly af- firmed but keeping and conducting that people, un« d:r the Pedagogic of that more burdenfome and fe- vere difpenfation > until the fulnefs of the time should come-, fo then it was? thathefent forth his own Son, a light to lighten the Gentiles ? and the glory of his people lfratl 5 to blefs them , iri turning away every one of them , from their ini- quities : to turne them from darknels untb light 9 and from the power of Satan unto God , thac they might receive forgiveness of fins , and inhe- ritance among them which are fan&ifyed, by faith that is in him: & thus our Lord Jefus abolished death; and brought life and immortality to light through the Gofpel : and the great defignes thereof not lying in that prepofterous in coherent order, by you repre- fented , are firft , by propofing to us that ftupendious myfterie of the Redemption of (inners through Jefus Chrift j and proclaiming, that whofoever beleevetfi on him , slul noc perish, but have everlafting life; to reconcile us enemies , and bring us aliens > nigh) unto God; and then being thus accepted} that in the fame Lord Jefus , we may be filled with all grace > by the Spirit of grace, to the knowledge, and acknow- ledgement of God his wonderful bountie , his un-J meafurable love, his glorious holinefs, his eternal truth and faithfulnefs , and unto the exciting, in us,' of that ravishing and conftraining love, that filial 2 M 3 54 The fixth Dialogue and perf'Aafive fear, and chat comforting and joyous hope ^ whkh graces, more and more moulding us into a lively conformity unto him , that loved us, and washed us horn our lins, in his ownbloud, and is become our hie , our light , and our all,- and thereby caufing us, to bring forth the fruite* of holinefs, meek- nefs, patience, brotherly love, and of all virtues, to the praifcof God, are the fweetnels, excellency, and delight of Grace, here* untill it shall be peric&ed by, and (wallowed up of Glory, hereafter: This, this is tne work and pui pofe of cheGofpel. And feing, it shall availl us nothing , to gain the w hole world and lofe our own fouls , it ought indeed to be the ^reat def^.e of c:r lives, toconforme unto it, even to hea ken unto the call of God, and bybeleeving in Chiift Jelus, that we may be delivered from the wrath to come, to labour to be found in him , not having ourownrighteoulnefs, which is of the Law ; but the righteoufnefs , which is of God by faith ; that fo we may know him , and the power of his Refurrettion , and the fellowship of his fufferings , and (till reaching forth , unto thefe things which are before , prefs toward the mark , for the prize of the high calling of God , in Chrift Jefus* The way then , to purify and fave our fouls , is not barely to aflfeft a little virtue, or morality; nay, nor yet, from our felves, without the Mediator, to apply ourmindesto God : God not in Chrift Jefus is a confuming fire, the contempla- tions of his Glory, an! Iloiinels , inftead of deriving, into our fouls , his excellent perfections , would but fill them with amazement and horrour: If the ex- ternal! she w and figure only of this fight , was fo ter- rible even to Mofes , that he faid, J exceedingly fear and quake ; How do you think , that poor finners can approach i We are therefore, to apply onr minde unto God} Anfwered. 355 God i but ? only in and through Chrift Jefus , that by him, obtaining peace, and from him, grace* we may have accels , and by faith fnot by fpeculation only ) have our hearts puiitied. Your precepts of fiilnefi and abflraElion ofmhide , to become of a thinking temper , and give up with pa(J- oris without Jefus Chrift , who is the only true way ; are but ftoical dreames, and delud- ing vanities: The awakened finner , whom fin af- frights , and wrath terrifies , findeth no reft nor re- fuge 3 but in Chrift Jefus j and the peace 5 and favour of God in him j and being in him accepted j is by his grace purified , and made to partake of that blefled- neis , pronounced by the procurer of it, Bleffedare the pure in heart , jor tiny fhall fee God : And thus with open face, beholding as inaglafs, the Glory of the Lord , he is changed into the lame image , from glo- ry to glory , untill that hereafter , he be brought to fee him , as he is , and thereby be perfected \ thefe are the great means, to attain to, and continue in, converfe and fellowship with Cod. If any man love me, faith our Lord, he will keep my words, and the Father will love him, and we will come unto him 9 and, mainour abode with him : And thence , no doubt , it is that, not only all that fweetnefs. of the meditation of God and his attributes , the admiration of his mercie and love in Chrift , the adoration of his excellencies* and thefe foul breathings , and continual afpirings to- ward him , which you here mention , will flow in into the foul , to its conitant famfa&ion , in an entire fubmilfion and delightfome complacencie,inall Gods wayes and actings ; butalfo'the Beleever will be ftirred up , prompted , and animat , in the holy and pure zeal of God's Glory i to fight out the good fight Z 2. Of 3 5 6 The fixth Dialogue ot faith, acquithimfeitftrenuoufl/j in that warfare* with the World , Sin, and Sathan ; wherein now we ftand ingaged, and readily to embt ace every occafion, whereby he may approve himfelf unto him , who hath To dearly loved ib ; and walk worthy of God , who ha:h called us unto his Kingdom and Glory : but to fuppofe, chat a man may think himfelf into this frame, or by thefimple means of that Mecaphorick 2tliTiilation, that is in meer thinking , attain to this Divine likenefs , is no lefs groundlefs , then the attive militant itate of Chriftians, within time, is ill de- fined, by your imaginary flilnefs. Now, if any man would underftand , wherein the fweetnefs , that is to be found in Divine converfe , doth conlift * The ftilnefs , wherewith the minde is overflowed ; the clearnefs of the judgement , ftedfaftnefs of the will , and calmenefs of the pailions , wherein you place it , are indeed qualities , which do highly advance a man, unto the perfection of his nature ; and the Divine touches , that you mention , whereby the foul is fome- times carried unto fublimjties not utterable , are alfo found in the records of Chriftian experience : but the only proper anfvvere, which can be returned , is, O taftandfee, that the Lord is good ! The unfearcheable treafures of his goodnefs have no meafure ; the excel- lencies of his glorious perfections , have no parallel ; the poor narrow foul , admitted unto thefe felicities, by attributing unto God, the very form, edence , anc (1 bftance of all its pleafure ; and magnifying him, asks alone love, joy, and delight, hath, by thefe, as by the application of whatlomever elfe it doth conceive to be amiable and delectable, endeavoured to adumbrat this Divine fatisfa&ion : But as the conftant refult of thefe reflections hath been ever ad- miration and wonder p fo , a forced filence in that trauf- Anfwered. 3 57 tranfport , of the Spoufe her raptures, yea he is alto- getherlovely , is only its moft figmticant period. What part our affections and paflions have , m thefe enjoy- ments > it is not needfull to mention ; certainly ? God who hath commanded , that we love him , with all the heart , with all the foul , with all the ftrength » and with all the minde , will both purity and iatiat all thefe capacities, As tor your telling us , that fenfible paflions may be very high , in an impure m;nde , a;.d of a natu- ral devotion $ JpeciaUs in a per/on melancholic^ , a woman , or hyftcrical > which mav mount very high ; but: doth not humble , or purify the minde I judge it j to be fuchanunfavorieand little pertinent mixture 3 that I mud cxprefTe my fears , that it doth denote a minde , inyourfelf, little humbled , and lefs purified: But that which you add , of Pe. fons Divinely acted their deniednefs unto all things , their abloluterefijiiation unto,- and intenle delight in, and defires toward God> astheblelljdeffeftsof the fouls union with him, is that which I rather obferve. And here indeed it is , and in your declaring felf abhorrence, and abnega* tion, and humble applications or the foul > unto Jefus Chrift , to be that ftrait paiTige, and low gate, which is by violence to be entered , for attaining unto that heavenly ftate , wherein , fpiritual folaces here, aad immediat Divine enjoyments hereafter, do not only compenfe and fwallo w up all the preceeding anguish ; but furpafs ail pollible apprehensions of that imcon- ceived glory, that I do moft heartily embrace that faving truth , if rightly undjrftood, of Faith and Re- pentance , which hitherto I have defiderat. O that in the po(Feli:on of fo great ajoy> and the hope of a greater blelTednefs expected , we would all vigoroufly fee about the duties ofaChriftian life? not intangling Z 3 our 3 5$ Thefixth Dialogue our felves with the pollutions or thi:> world) nor with the affaires of this life > how to ferveour own lufts andeafe, and comply with every device, and inven- tion of men , but enduring hardnefs , contradiction , reproach , and all periecution, that we may pleafe him j who hath cholen us to be Souldiers ! Certainly, he whofe heart is thus fixed on God > in and through Chriftjefus, his life and actions will quickly mani- feft, thit he harh not only the forme, but the power of Godlinefs ; his rational and unconcerned contempt of this prefent world , his hatred of bate and debaling lufb 3 his undervaluing of the things of fenie, his well fquared and folid indifferencie for all conditions and occurrentsj andlaftly, his love of truth, andfaidy of innocencie > and delight in goodnefs , in ali his words , and works , do evidently shew forth the love, and fear of God , to be, as it were, the vital fprings of all his thoughts and motions, while felf-denyall emptieth , and humility vaileth him , as nothing, and out of the world , the native and genuine lultre of free grace in him , is thereby rendered more confpi- cuous , a'id his light , doth the more shine , unto the praife of God , who hath called us unto Glory and virtue : He peaceably , and chearfully obeyeth the pubiick Father of his Countrey, but only m the Lord; he rernembreth and honoureth fuch , who watch for his foul , who fpeak unto him the word of God , of thefe he is a follower, astheyareofChrift, follow- ing their faith* and confidering the end of their con- verfation ; he purfueth Charitv , as the Crown of perfection. Be ye therefore perjedt, even at your Fat her% which is in heaven is per; eft , hath not with him a more commanding Authority , then an inviting and foul- *avishing attraction: Hence it is, that as^his bounty and Anfwered. 3?9 and beneficence coward men is prompt and union - fined ; to , his obedience toward God is moft punc- tual and circumfpect, hiving refpect unto all Gods commandments , and efteemmg his precepts , con- cerning all things to be right, and hating every falfe wayj a latitude of love, and goodwill toward all men , he heartily acknowledged , and r jjoiceth in ; but a latitude or compliance with finful courfes , and indifferency , even m the imallelt matters of God, under vvhatfomever pretext , he from his heart ab- horreth. Theie , indeed , arc a few of the faire lines, that compofe the Chuftians Character, bv* v\hich, as you may fee in part , wherein Chriftian Religion doth coniift \ Co , it is too too apparent , that many, who in their vain vaunting of '.erene and (till fpecula- tions and high abftractions , do alledge the ftt icknefs of Confcientious practices , to be but loud pretenfes , do themfelvesladly and molt dan^eroufly, recede from it. O how much is it to be defired, thai not only fuch, but all , would, in their fecrec retirements , often review and examine tluir actions , that, difcovering their errors an j failings , they may be humbled and brought , unto the renewed and more ferious exercife of repentance , flirred up by a more lively , and active faith, to lay hold on JefusChrift, and from him, and by the power of his grace , quickened to new vi- gour and alacrity , inthe wayesofGod! Thenshould the Divine love, inChrift Jefus , inflame and elevat the foul , and captivate the whole powers thereof, unto thefe pure and free refignations , wherewith God is well pleafed ; then should the power of the grace of our Lord, mortify fin, overcome temptations, and advance, in every thing acceptable, unto God. And laftly* then should the offerings of ourpraifes Z 4 to 360 The fixth Dialogue to God, fpr all his mercies, efpecially for the inva- luableand unfpeakeable Gift of Chrift Jefus , afcend with gladnefs, and bring back the returnes of more gtace, and joy; and our prayers and fupplications , in the name of Chrift 3 according to the will of God, for all things , that we may be careful in nothing , and for all men , efpecially for Kings , and all that are in Authority , that we may lead a quiet, and peaceable life , in allGodlinefs and honefty , should befet forth before him , as incenfe , and mount up , as the even- ing Sacrifice : And it is , from thefe heavenly exer- cifes , and the communications ofGrace , which flow therein , that the heart is firmly fixed and ftrenthened, to order and do all to the glory of God, and the minde continually bended , by the ftrong applica- tions of fear and love, to direct all its wayes , as in his fight : And thefe truely are the frame , and fruits, of inward and fecret devotion. As for publick Wor- ship, he whoconfiderethit , as commanded by God, for the Avowed and more folemn acknowledgement of our dependence upon him , and teftifying our union with his' Church, and that therefore, not only in reafon , but alfp by exprefs precept , it is to be feriouf- Jy and fincerely performed , with and from the heart , and in that holy and pure manner , which he himfelf hath prefcribed , without the contaminating mix- tures of mens prefumptuous and vain inventions, j> ill certainly go unto the congregation ofthe Lords people, met together in his Name , and fincerely pro- felling thus to feek his face , not out of cutlome or formality, whereumo, of all things, the deviling and imppfing of humane forms and modes domoft power- fully delude ; but , that he may jointly with others , cordially adore, and praife his Maker, and Redeemer, and Anfwered. 3** and give , not only an external concurrence , according to the Rule and decency of the Worship ; but ivich his foul , and all that is within him , will blefTe his holy Name , and joine his Amen. Thus you have my hearts aflent, to the truth thac I rind inyourconclution, my defire to God is , that both you , and we , were by a ferious , humble, and holy practice , and not by talking only , experiment- ing the folid edification , and plesfure , that lyeth in thefe heads : if this you had minded more, you and your partie would have been farre from vexing the Lords Church and people, in thefe Lands , contra: y to the Word of God , foleran Oaths and Covenants, efhblished Laws, found Reafon , and Policy, and the general inclinations of all , with that grievous yoke of wicked and pervefePrelacie, and thefe vain and bur- thenfome corruptions , wherewith , in all Ages , it hath been attended: Which things, astoyourown recollected thoughts, they appear to be but extnnfeck, and of little moment ; fo , pray Sir , whence did they proceed? And what have they produced { Certainly, if either ferious reflections upon all the Ages of Chri- ftianity, efpecially upon thefe alterations, that have happened amongft us, fince the Reformation \ or a jun confidcration , of the prefent condition , and ftate of affaires , could have place ; as the pride, and avarice of corrupt Church-men, andconfequently, of the worftof men,- ailifted, fince ihe rejection of the Pope , with the fame irreligious fpirit , and prac- tices, obferved in former times, ofanafpiringSupre- macie, moving under the fpecious pretexts of order, and peace > will appear to b; the only fpring, and caufe '} fo j ignorance , profanity , violence , and dif- fraction , will be fpy nd , the woful fruits of thefe in- Z S nova* 363, The fixth Dialogue novations. But it is of the Lord , ior the punishment of our iniquities $ efpecially , our not receiving, and walking vvorthy 5 or the giorious Gofpel, thaO'udge- ment is farre from us, neither doth juftice overtake us , we wait for light , but behold obfcurity , for brightnefs , but we walk in darknefs : We look for judgement > but there is no ie , for falvarion , but it is farre from us. The Lord fee to it, and let his Arme bring falvation , and his name be glorified. As for the concluding complement of affection , which you do here give your Non-conrormift , and make him to repay, atourcoft, with the con feflion of his former unmeafured fury , it is but too palpably the wantonneffe of your own extravagant fancie , wherein to looke for more truth , then you do shew conftancie in your refoiution , to put a point to thefe matters controverted > and never to refume them againe , were great weakneffe. You add in words , Let us provoke therefore one another to charity and good works, and yet we know your practice to be, to prefs your trifling conformity j and provoke the Powers, againft fuch, as cannot comply : We have indeed a bleffed exercife for our tongues , even with them to blefs God the Father j but fince you do per- fift , in your maligning the wayes , work , and people of God , your mouth muft , and shall be ftopt , if the fmall endeavours, by me ufed , might make you minde the purfuance of truth more , then the ftudy of your lo often repeated Temper, my fatisfa&ion would be little inferior to your advantage • but feing both your words and works, do shew , that thou art neither cold, nor hot ; but lukewarm : I counfel the , in the words of the great Counfeller, To he Zealous therefore , and repent : behold hejlandeth at the door , and knocketh, Anfwcred. 363 if any man hear his voice, and open the door, fa will come in to him , and fup with him , and he with him. To him that overcometh -, trill he grant , to fit with him uihis throne ; even as he alfo overcame, and is fet down with his Father > in his throne. And thus palfiag your prepofterous poft- fcript , and your lcarian Pindarick, 1 proceed to your Continuation. Tfo J 64 The Continuation , O R Thefeventh DIALOGUE AnfwerecL SI R. ? Beginning this your feventh Dialogue with your ordinary insinuations , whereof the (lender artifice , obvious to the tirft view* needeth no further difcov ry , I only take notice > that where your preface affirmeth that the true reafon of your confenting to the publish- ing of the former Dialogues , was , That fine* yow had allayed , a great deall of the heat you met with in your N. C. upon thefe matters , you prefumed it might pro- duce the like good ejfeB in others. It is an aliedgeance too ferious to be groundlefs , and beyond what the UcenCe of the fictitious form of your conferences will allow,* and therefore, flnce any excefs of heat that appeares in your N. C. is not ours , but purely your own invention, your pretenfe of having allayed it, doth both bewray your vanity , and shew this to be indeed the true caufe of the publication* As for the advantages yow reckon upon , yow reckon before your Hoft? reckon again , and then boaft of your Rea- fon. Anfwered* 365 fon. But you would alio be accouuted a Droll for-* foothj though you fay, you have only adhibit e fom* what of that , n^t out oj humour , but for fweetening the tra)ifuions , according, to the manner of all Dialogues » certainly you Latitudinarians are all brave compre- hensive fpirits 5 Matters of all good qualities, whether you polleiTe them or not , and yet I dare affirm , that a pleafant humoi ift , will laugh more at this paflage of your conceitednefs , then all the drolries that hitherto you have vented. But now begins your half-profelited N. C. and without connexion tells you , that fome charge you with Socinianifme , others with Poprie , others with Armi- nianifme, and others with Quakerifme, though at it feems to him upon very (lender grounds. Sir , what may have moved you, after what we have heard in your fixt Dialogue , again in this place to refume thefe things to fo fmall purpofe, I do not conceive. You shew as it you were extremly picked by fuch re- proaches j and tell us , that ^ow know the arts of fuch , who will tdl their people , that you are unfound and he. tcredox , and bachjhtr hard words , with grave nods and wry faces. Poor man , your pillion is Sirred , and £ am lorry to find you fo impotent, as again torelapfe in fuch a childish re fl^&ion , whereas to have ufed it once before was too much and unworthy of your gra- vity. Bur fure who ever are your accufers , ( who really to me are unknown , ) they have coo vifible an advantage, in this your Weaknefs; and if many men be not miftaken , no lefs ground ofretortioninyour own lbenical gefticulations , and afTe&ed grimaces. The thirrglam concerned to notice is, why being fo sharp in your refentment , are you fo fcant in your purgation tf You ask , if they do underftand things , who charge him with Socinianifme ? wbobtlUveth that Chrfi 3 66 The feventh Dialogue Chrift is the eternal Son of God , and hopes for falvation only through his blood. And I grant that thefe things being truely underftood and believed , as I hope you do , are indeed the truth oppofite to the Seaman errors : But feeing you know thatfome Socinians do alfo very eafily admit , and acknowledge the fame form of words , and that the cardinal point of this Controverfie is , whether or not Jefm Chrifl the Son of God> be indeed effentially £r natura Deus , according to that Scriptures ^Andwe are in him, that is true , even in his Son Jefus Chrtsl , this is the true God and eternal life. I wish you had chofen the fame pofitive aflertion for your vindication. As for your clearing your felf of Poprie in the mat- ter of Juftification, because forfooth, that you afcribe all we receive in this life , and in that to come , to the love and grace of God > thorough Jefm Chrifl, Itisfo far from being a fufficienttertof your orthodoxy , that I am confident , there is fcarce one undemanding Pa- pift , who would not fay it were a calumny, to charge them with the contrary. Nay you your felf, in your fexth Dialogue do plainly fay , that they hold the foun- dation Jefus Chrift , and exprefsly wave their opinion o£ Juftification , in the enumeration of their errors, which in effcft amounts to all by you here aflTerted ; however , having already atgreat length handled this purpofe 5 and not loving to vex any with odious names > I shall only adde , that when you shall be- lieve and teach , that Chrift alone , is our Righteouf- nefs and Peace, and that it is by the faith of Jefus Chrift, and not by the works of the Law, that we are juftified , then shall you have a good report of all men, and of the truth itfelf. Next you fubjoin , that we know that all that Calvin mid his followers aime at in the matter of Arminius his j^oints-i Anfwered. $67 points , is that all our good be afcrtbed unto God , hott? then can be be erroneous in this matter > who afferts that <* Sir, having aheady waved theie debates > I shall not now refume them , but though I have formerly ac corded > and am fhll perfwaded, that this general prin- ciple , riglv.lyunderftoodand feconded withafincere pradice; would prove a happie antidote againft the Arminian errors ; yet lam far from the opinion , that its bare profeilion, which hardly any other then an Atheift will difown , should acquit you as to found- nets in thefecontroverfics. Where you fay that Calvin aimed at no more , 1 might tell you , I. That that might be true , and yet he and Arminim differ in the manner. 2. It is certain that Cahin's aim was far- ther from Scripture revelation , to vindicatboth the Sov^raignity of God > and the deep myfterie of the Divine ccunfel and decrees , from mens narrow felf- devifed and prefumrnuous notions and apprehenfions, & alio moie evidently to defeat the errors of Univer- fai Redemption and the uncertainty of Perfeveiance bottomed upon the fame ground: But fmce*Armi- hua himfelf a:.d all his lollowers , would be far from denying Gcd , to be the alone Author and fountain of all good , what need of more words » for redarguing fuch a pitiful vindication. Now follows your purgation of Quakerifme , which I confejs is plain and nolTtive , and I am indeed con- vinced , ( though ignorant of them ) that the grounds of that accufation , which you are ashamed to name > arein effect ridiculous ; thefeverity of that mode? is no doubt too ftrift for yours of the Latitude : How- ever it shall mil be my wish, thatits large compre- henfion , may not at lead include fome of the peculiar principles of that Se& j which to the difcerning of all, that have penetrat into its deeps, you do veryjuftly tenni 36s Thefeventh Dialogue terme the fubtileft device yet broached fortheover^ throw of theChriftian Religion. To this you adde , but if that fpirit be not the womb, from whence all thefe SeEls and errors havefprung amongfl us , let all that lookjon judge. Pray3 Sir , what fpirit dd you meane ; that there is a chafma here is manifeft * but whether in the print , as is obvious from the let- ter, or rather in your brains, as the futility of the rcafons fubjomed do more evidently perfwade 5 may be very rationally doubted : In the mean time , if for the better examining of your difcourfe , I may fupply the fir ft , 1 fuppofe you meane > that the Presbyterian fpirit is the womb fpoken of ; and this you go about to prove , becaufe none fall to them vi%. to Quakers , as I judge , but fitch as were formerly mosl violent in their, i.e. the Presbyterian ( for all is here manck and conjectu- ral) way. But i. If you knew how to reafon fairly, to give your Argument a collour of probability , you should have taken it , not from the falling away of this moft violent, which may be the iflue of that excefs from the founded profeifion , but from the moft fe- rious in whom the natural tendencv of opinions is beft difcerned. i. That the more ferious Presbyterians do remain ftedfaft and unbrangled with thefe delu- sions} is that which you dar not deny. 3. Even of thefe mosl violent that you fpesk of, the number fallen away isfoiew, that urged to a condefcendency you would be ashamed to reckon them. 4. Your argu- ment, whatever way underfiood, is no more appli- cable to Presbytery , then to Chnftianity ; nay if fuch loofe reafoning , were of any moment , the thoufands ofherefies, which the Chriftian Religion hathocca- iioned , should poftpone it to Paganifmt. But you fay, though you are Jure, that we are far .piough from being Quakers? yet our principles have a uam* Anfwered. 369 natural tendency that way, and for evidence,yoK demand, whence ,tbir\;cu Juvc theyfitc^t there re jeSing ofallforms and ordi.r (under a pretence that the Jpirit is not to be brelimited) but from your notions agalnjt Liturgies and jor extemporary heats. 'Tis anfwered , I. Seingthat we difprove your tmpefing of Sec-forms , and reject your Liturgie from folid ^cripture-giounds , as 1 have already evinced , ihe Queers their abtife thereof being the lame? whireby they pervert the plaintft Scrip- tures, fignifieth nothing in your behalf. As for the mention you make of extemporary hi ats ; though your profane fpirii , doth not itick to mock at the true man- ner of fpinrual prayer, fo much practifed in Scripture, and by the people of God in all ages , under this falfe character, yet 1 think your own vanity , may make you blush at fuch a conceited repetition. 2. If I did not love to exceed in candor , more then you do hate Calumny, I could retort to you with very ^ood reafon, that it is not fo much the very abufe of our grounds againltyour Liturgies, that have deluded the Quakers unto the rejection of a! I form and order , as it is the manifeft irreligion of your rigor in impofing , and dead formality in practifing of theie vain inventions > that have Rumbled not only Quakers into their fancies, but many thoufands into palpable x^chcifme. Next you tell us , that the liberty we take to medlein matters too high for us , and fudge of ever; thing , without thinking en the reverence we owe the Church , opens a wide door for their pretentions % to a liberty of the jpirit , re- nouncing all mod efiv and humility. Really, Sir, this arguing appeares to me fo mean , that I can fcarce repete it without blushing, we have heard you fre- quently object, that our Minifters did labour much to tyupthe people, in an implicite faith > and here youcaxe us for the contrary excels • if you fay? that A a. the \yo The feventh Dialogue the fault here mentioned might be true of our Mini- fters > and your former challenge hold of the people , you rnifsyoar mark , fincc you cannot charge our Mi- miters with that failing away which you object ; but why do I trifle? As you cannot convince our way > either of the exceifive liberty or irreverence alledged ; fo it is evident? that it is only our not fubjefting our faith to your Lordly Prelacy , and complying with every foolish device of man m the matters of God > that moves your fpleen. But you proceed to object? that our humor of fepara- tion , begets that giddinefs in people , that no wonder they* being fcaken from the Unity of the Church, a^f°flaggef through unbelief c. Thus you move every ftone that you may reach us ; informer times the rigor of Presby- tery againft reparation > was a great clamour , and no doubt, if you had been Preiatick in thofedayes , you would have made it a far more piauiible medium for the fame conclufion. And now our conftancy to the trut'.i once received , and moll folemnly ingaged unto? and our abhorrence of the falshood and perjury of fuch j who y calling off all fear of God , and regard to their own reputation , either as Chriftians or men, have fubverced the righteous and pure conftitucion of this Church, ufurped its name and authority , and are turned to be perfecutors of fuch who cannot com- ply with all this wickednefs, is made by you not only a charge of reparation , but exaggerat as a preparative to the Quakers their folly. O with how much more reafon, and undeniable evidence, might the perju- rious lightnefs , and verfatile falshood of your Prelats and their adherents , who have been carried about by every wind of tentation , be accufed 2s the caufc , not only of the Quakers their giddinefs , by you objected, But of all th4;touuiiipt»ndrtgaidkliiudirTaency , where- Anfwered. 371 whercinto at prcfcnc , we fee Religion thereby pre- cipint. Your next quarrellts, that we cherifh in our follow erf, a dejeBion of mind too much , as if Religion , which gives: a man a right to the purefl joyts > jhould become a Life of doubting , and this , you fay , introdaceth ajpirit ofrne- lanchol v making way to pretended enthufiafme. Whether or not this your challenge doth not in effect coincide with the cavils of the profane world , and directly en- courage that fpirit, which continually decrieth Reli- gion , as a four melancholy 3nd inconverfable con- ceit, let every ferious foul judge. It is enough for our vindication, that we do not teach any other de- jection, then that of humble repentance, mortifica- tion and felf- denial ; this is indeed a hard work, com- pared in Scripture to the moft bitter and grievous mournings , nay unto death it felf ; and feeing the fu- perttructure of grace and glory thereupon founded , is exceeding weighty and high, it is certainly very ne- ceflary, that thefe foundations be firmly laid, and ever the deeper the better : But as it is by the power ofthcfpint of Jefus , and in the fenfeof his wonder- ful, both deprelfing and exalting love, thac thefe things are belt performed , fo an excefs of humbling ( if not defpairing ) abafement in this matter, is no juft fear, and more unjuftly made our reproach. As for Religion , no queftion it gives a man a right to the pureft i'oyts , and is alfo even in this life , attended with a moft ravishing foretafte , and a moft glorious and fa-' tisfying hope: but if in this our bodily eftate, the fame pure excellency of the thing, and fearching dif- covenes which it makes, do by reafonofthe enmity of Satan, and deteftable and yecinevitable importuni- ties and warrings of the World and the Flesh , render us neceftutily obnoxious to many doubcin^s , fears A a x ami 37a Theicventh Dialogue and oppofTcions , againft which we aie oblidged and by the word commanded to pray , watch, wrcftle and right coutmually • do you therefore , becaule we thus warn , juftly accufe us , as if we made Religion a life of doubting , let be to countenance thc'e melan- choly affectations and pretended enthufiafmes { Sir , if you were as feriousinthe practice , as you appear affected ii\ the fpeculations of Religion, your expe- rience of the many devices of Satan , the decekfulnefs of your own heart , the unceiTant oppofmons of the Flesh and Spirit, together with theoppreliing and grievous fenle of a body of death and fin which doth lo eafily befct, would certainly convince you, noc only that fecurity and not doubting is the common bane of profeiTors , but that our brighten: shmings of joy in time , are after the faddeft shours of mourning, that the mod relishing wine of our confolanon is made of the water of Repentance, that it is from the feed ofteares, that theharveftofour joy groweth ; nay that our bleflednefs here is in a manner wrapped up in mourning, and that it is hereafter only that we are to look for the times of refreshing when we shall be fully comforted: But the Lord grant you more reall and (olid dej^&ions, and deliver you from the vanity of an airy imagination which both in it felf doth bend to, and is frequently in rightcoufnefs plagu- cd by thefe enthufiafmes, wherewithyou do reproach us. And thus all men may fee, how unjuftly we are by you blamed, for the progrefs that Qua^riffn rnak- eth amongft us; and ho .v directly , not only that > but moflof theirreligion and profanity of thefe dayes, Is chargeable upon your wav. To this vindication I could further fu -join a very fignificancteftimony vfy Ho w that King James , in his firjl and more innocenc years > did make his boaft of the conftitution of Pres- byterian- Anfwered. 37$ byterian government j asthemoft efTeiftual bulwark. againft error and hcreile > but the certainty of this truth needeth no fuch fupport. For your infinuatiqp of piety and love here fubjoined , we have Co often found the molt keen an owes of your calumny dipped in thisoyntment , that 1 think you oblidged to my ci- vihtv , vviien I pafs it as one of you: poor fweetening tranfitions. In the next p'ace yow licenfe your N. C. To characterize you freely , to the effect that, feeing you are refolved io let him prove nothing , even what is truth in his charge may be conftrued prejudice : bur feeing it hath been my endeavour , fo to draw and de- fian ih vivecolloursjtnat naming would appeare fuper- fluous , I need not profecute iuch a rcprefeutation. As for theanfwere you return of your brave temper againft reproach? Mpoftolkl^ firmwfl againft all re- ports, your pure anger without lin, and more then hu- mane goodnefs even to die for your hating traducers > it were folly in me to queftion the truth , where fin- Gerity alone would be an incredible happinefs ; but feeing thefeelogies are thefmoak you C3ptat, I grud- ge vou not. You go on , and truly I beleeve with no lefs can- dor , to clafs us , in fome fober and modeft ? and o- thers four , heady > uncharitable and unfociable : and for the firft > yow honour them , great civility , & honour them the more, for their fir ft founder Calvin, great wit , and then left this be taken for a jeer ? you tell us that the fi.rft being ever Prefpvtery had , wai in Calvin's brain; and this vouaffure, a great evidence indeed- and verily whether your civility , wit, or e- vidence be the greater , it were hard to determine; only as it mull be an extraordinary complement j to which a fcolfing jeft doth make an accellion, and an ex- Aa 3 traordi- 374 The feventh Dialogue traordinary j^ft, to which falshood gives the point, and an extrapidinary falshood w hich both the Scrip- tures , the practice of the firft and pureft times of the Church, and the more judicious and ingenuous of your own partie do redargue; fo queftionlefs in all the three you are eminently lingular. Now for the fecond Clafs of us , which you make to conlift of narrow headed, hotbrain'd, crofle grain'd Icanatkhsy you muft be licenfed to ufe them leve- rely ; and with all my heart ufe fuch as you pleafe , only ufe the whole party and their caufe truly, and then I am confident this member of your diftin&ion , will be found but a groundlefs malicious forgery ; but to confirm it , you remember a palTage or one of our Preachers , allowing Sharpnefs in defence of the Truth , and to check the proud conceit of Adverfa- ries , and though it arife molt natively from the words, and be clearly verifiable in all times and occafions; yet, loving to rake in our former divifions, you will have it to be directed againfi the infohnce , forfooth , of the then protefting partie, and to ferve as a complete apology tor any sharpnefs you have ufed : But , Sir , as you cannot lubfume in the termes of that doctrine , cither upon your own defenfe of the Truth , or upon our proud conceit , and confequently do fall short of your defigned apology j fo your reflecting upon thefe differences , wherein you are nothing concerned , being plainly intended for the difgracing of the whole party, doth far more difcover your malice, then our infirmities : and therefore to ufe the words of the Text , feeing you ufe thefe of the doctrine , although there he mockers with m , and our eye doth coritinow in their provocation , at which upright men may be afto?iied , yet let the innocent fiir up himfeU againft the hypocrite and 'the righteous hold on his way 9 and he that hath clean bands Anfwered. 375 hands lhall bejlronger and sJronger. The nixt wedt;e which you fet and drive for to di- vide us j is to tell the world , *that our humors and fol- lies , are not chargeable upon the whole PriJhyUrim tarty > that the Englifc Prefbyterians are far beyond us in moderation , ai appear :s from Baxter's Dijpui atiom on Church- government, and all thev de fired tn the lat-e treaty, was to be ]oxned with the Bi (hops in the cxercife o Dif- cipline which we refufe. Tis anfwered, what your o- pmion is of the whole party , shall not betaken from your fraudulent infinuations, but as thefe arc plainly enough confuted, by your more free expfeflions in other p3rts , particularly in your, i. Dialogue. Pag. 6. Where you fay, Rebellion was thefoid ofourwh'oU worfot and the Covenant the bend thereof, and Dial. 4. P. 62, where you charge both Engtijh and Scots, with all the blood of the late war; So thefe umbrages of differen- ces, which youalledge, either from a particular perfon his problematick difputations , or a ftreatch of Accommodation , flowing in a great preflure of necellity from men not by oath tyed with us to this pref.rvation of that where unto they had not actually attained , but only to endeavour a Reformation accor- ding to the fure rules therein fet down, ought not to be either a matter of Rumbling , or an excufe to your de- ceit. But now forgetting your diftin&ion , with the fame breath you exhibite one of your former charges a- gainft us all in thefe words, before the late diffordos , all the Pr.fovteriansin Scotland, did fit in the Courts for Church- difcipline , andwhvmavnotvou afwel do the liks j And to this vou make your N. C. Anfwere upon the old legal eftablishment then (landing, and never refcinded untill the year. 1661 . OnpurpoL that you may furprift him , as you fpeake , with a new A a 4 dif- 3 76 Thefeve*- th Dialogue difcovtryforfooth or an Ad published, and printed now 57 years ago j whereby youfay, the >4S. 1592. Seeling Presbytery , was exprefly annulled , and here- upon you pretend fuch amazement , and do make fuch exclamations upon our diiingenuous iorgery, or intolerable ignorance and groundlefs and prefump- tuous shifme , that this whole paiTage , laying your reverence, doth plainly appeare to me to be but the fchareleton tricks oi a puiiul impoftor. For, 1. I told you befoie upon your. 4. Di I. ( Where 1 confefs 1 waved this matter as not worthy the an- swering) That the rcafon of our different practice now in order to your meetings , fiom what was ufed for* merly , is plainly this, that Prelacy, being at hi ft introduced in this Church moftly by cunning, and a lent procedure 3 our true presbyteries were not there- by difcontinued , but only injunoufly invaded and u* furped upon $ of which practices , any honeft Mini* fter being free , and purging himfclf of all appearance of acceil-on , by openpiottftation, might verylaw- fully fit ftill , andferve his Mallei therein : but in the late overturning, all things being carried at a far dif- ferent rate , and not only the old Presbyteries difiol- ved, but 2 new foundation being laid, or the Kings Supremacy, and all the power and jurifdictionof this Church therein rountained , and both Bishops and the prefent pretended Presbyteries, thereon founded , it is molt mani (eft, that your prefent meetings, being no lawful Church«.ju hcatories , are not to be counte- nanced by any true Minifter of Jefus Chnft. i. You make your. N. C. lay claime to a legal efhblishment , as a neceffary warrant to impower Mi- nifters to meet in Etclefiaftick^courts ,. whereas you know, that although we judge Magiftrats bound to give Chrifts Church the aillftance aud protection of $heir Anfwered. l77 their authority and laws, yet we conftantly hold the power or aflembling, as well as or Difciplincto be in* tnnfeck in the Church, derived unto it from Jefus Chriftits head, and this is certainly a jus dhinum% to which all true Non-conformifts do conftantly ad- here, and which your. N. G. doth very foolishly and weakly omit, 3. The node you make , that it k in all our mouths that the law for Pre fevtoies , Wtts in force untill the year 1661. (Which for my own part, 1 may declare, I never either thought or heard alledged, as the account of the different practice wherewith you here urge us ) and your pretended iurpriie, and vain account or being Undeceived , by a per/on of great honour who fhemd you the 1A8. 1612. (Which 1 hardly believe , thatthere is any in Scotland of your coat ignorant of) What do theyfigmfy, but the drefsof a ridiculous fable, CO impoie upon the fimple to our prejudice ? 4. If the matter were worth the contending for, I could shew you, that , that perfon o/grwf honour, isnotmuchoblidgedtoyour report *or the credit of his kriow ledge , inasmuch as your words do import that both he and ycu do undeiftand the *Atl. 1592. ietling Presbytery, to have been by the aH. i6i2» totally refunded , and Presbyteries thereby totally difolved ; whereas the claufeof the AB runneth ver- batim thus , annulling and re fandingths 1 14 AB. Pari. 1 5 92. Audi all and wbatfmtttr ABs , Laws , Ordi- nances and Cuftomes , in jo far as they or any part thereof are contrary or derogatory unto the Articles above ttrit* ten , fo that there being no Article or provifion in the AB. \6\2. Making void the approbation, given to the being and meetings of Presbyteries by the 1592, (Although! grant their power and priviledges, are thereby much diminished) It is evident, that the povv- Aa 5 et j 78 The feventh Dialogue er bf meeting , and doing all other tnings > not al- tered by the poftcrior, did ftill remain allowed to Presbyteries by vertue of the prior. Say not that the firft part of the abovementioned refciflbry cbufe , re- lative to the AB. 1592. Is fimple, and doth there terminat, as I heard once affirmed by one of vour party, not3 'tis like, of fo great honour as your infor- mer, but , I am fare , in this point , of more know- ledge then your felf , who proving it by the point or- dinarily fet after the figures of the year of God , would have the following reftri&ion , only to concerne the A&sand Lawes generally annulled. But as it is evi- dent > thatthe^o/VrtmakethnopwW, and proteftanc Religion contained in that A&. 1592. Should be va- cated and annulled \ fo the obvious tenor of the words, together with the fenfe of the Pari. Anno. 1662. Whointhenewefhblishment of your Prelacy, did judge ic convenient to the grounds therein laid down , to refcind de novo > that old AB >in all its beads > clau* fes and Artidrs > whatever might betheconfequence> do abundantly elide this conceit. However I do again tell you > that our confeiences , in this matter , are better founded,and not fquared to fuch mutable ruljs: And > therefore , feeing our grounds are firme and (ta- ble , let me in the words of your own exhortation , obceft you and your party to confider your way bet- ter , ceafe from your perfecution , repent of your apoftafy and ufurpation > and return into favour with God and union with us. Now follows a childish quarrel between you and your N. C. anent the tendernefs of your love and prayers in our behalf, above that meafure which we life towards you , and. 1 . You fay , wo Jhould be to you and your N. C If the love of God to you did appear in fuch ejfeBs 4s the love of fume of ours doth , the invi- dious Jirain of their prayers being univerfally > that Gad would -ruuvvcrca. 379 wnuld bring you down, destroy the incorrigible, and flnev the rejt the e~Sdl oj there dcfcclton : but , youfiy , hot9 would we take it , if'youfaouldpray , that God would dc~ jlrovourpartv > and flwv m the evill of our t{tb:llion9 a, id other wicked courfes. 'Tis anfvvered, I. Seeing that wo shall certainly be unto all fuch> and they ;irc far from the love of God , who are incorrigible , that God by making manifeft his righteous judgments > would glorify his own Name , ana deliver his Chinch from fuch adverfaries , is a prayer clearly warranted , both from the word , and the practice of the Saints » nor is it in the leail difcordant , from that Chriftian charity , whereby I am really moved , earneltly to defire the Lord to deliveryouand all both fiom the thing? and its punishment, i. That God would bring down rhe proud that ex3lt ihemlelves againft Jefus Chnft , and give repentance to backilidei s , is a pray- er fo agreeable to the will of God , and full or love to the perfons prayed for, that J am certain, what* ever may be faid againft our principles , which I remit to the impartial dilcerner, yet our practice in this , as being both tenderly Chriftian , and fauly confequent, cannot but be appioven. 2. Miftake not , it you should pray for us, in the fame ftrain , we mi^ht pollibly, and with great reafon , account it an aggravation of the evils of your other principles and practices: but we are not fo narrow, as to conftrue it a particular breach of charity : Nay for my part , as I would think it rationally confequent , fo > abftra&mg from the errors which it fuppofah , 1 would take it for the greateft teftimony both of your zeal toward God , and love toward us. But ir I may ufe a little freedome, why do youpleafe your felf fo much in vain talk? though we hear not many of your prayers , yet , I am fore , all know , that we want not plenty of mat - cer 5 so The feventh Dialogue ter and inftances for a retortion , in wnac termes foev- er you pleafe to frame your challenge : are we fo short in memory, as not to remember how ycur pulpits founded , both in preaching and prayer , after the late rifmg , and that not only againft thefe poor broken innocents, but infuch a manner agatnft our whole party, as, by falfe and fierce acculmg oi all without diftin&ion , might almoft have excufed in them the like attempt, to fave from that fury that thundered every where i I [you would have any latter and more particular inftances, pray inquire after the B. of St. Andrew's Sermons , fpecially that preached by him the 30 of Jan. 1669. and the ether before the laft Parliament: you complain of the levereftile of our prayers , he , good man > being ill fatistied, with fuch fofc and aine tooles , and having paffionately fumed out a molt bitter inve&ive againn our Presby- terian Minifters , not long fmce his brethren and bene- factors, did very agreeably clofe it in thefe words* thefe are circumforancous Demagogues , at~le d by afpirit , otherwise to be call out then by facing and prayer. But what need I mention your prayers , when indeed many of your practices have moftvifibly been fuch , as mav juftly make your faireft words fufpected of the deepeft diffimulatiog. I know fome of you have a fashion of praying , that God would unite this poor Churchy andheali our breaches; But if that be all the evidence you can bring , to shew the healing and peace- able fpirit to be on your fide. Pray tell me , why the Church of t\ome , that may boaft as much of the fame formula) may not as juftly pretend to it ^ I might further adde , that it appears to be no extraordinary merit for fuch a* are countenanced by the Powers, and do Idolize peace and eafe , to wish for an union with any whom they apprehend co be theit oppofits , and Anfwered. 381 and that perhaps the more iobcr amorgft you , for all their compliance under the tentation, yet are not To far abandoned , as that they dare in Gods fight juftifie there defection, and pray againft the party and courfes, which they know they did not defert , from any con-, fcientious conviction. But I have infifted too long on fo poor a fubjett , aod I can in your own words arturc you, that we are not only ready to unite with you* but are excremly , though not implicitly , defirous of it -} and do therefore dayly pray> that God would open your eyes, reclaim you from your backflidings, and grant unto us union and peace , in truth, to his glory. This is the Accommodation , that is only definable? if you purfuc any other , 1 am certain , that , however it may be confonant to your defines , yet it is alto- gether difibnant from your profelfion ; and therefore, if we be more rational and upright > to hate all finfull Accomodation , and rather to wish that oiir differences may fland , and be perpetuat in the behalf of truth, then cemented by a finful compliance, wherein are we to be reprehended i Now that this is all that wc teach in this matter, the fame books which yourc- ferre to, doteftify; and that it is none other, then tf e very doctrine of the School ofChrift , the fre- quent Scripture -injunctions to the defence of, and ftedfaftnefs in the truth , with the commands of a juft oppolition to , and avoiding of every falfe way and its promoters , do fufficiently evince. But you adde , Let all men yudge , if there be not a bit* ternefs in the Preface to Mafier Rutherfoords letters,the Arologetical Narration, and Naphtali, unfampled inany fatirey let be qra'je a?id Ckriftian writing. Sir, fince you are pleafcd toingage me into particular vin* durations, I anfwer, That, feeing the plainnefs of truth hath alwwi been an wniufTerablc bicternefs to 3 %z The feventh Dialogue all perverfe fpirits , this your reflection doth not dc« ferve any fpecial notice , if I were inclined to retort , it were not more eafie forme, then evident to fay in your own words , and let all men judge > if there be not a. fubtiU poifonom malice , in your few Dialogues, above all the pretended bitternefs againsl which you clamour; But, feemgthefe Writings, that you here mention, arc not only too clearly warranted by undeniable truth, but manifeftly approven by Scripture- practice, and almoft ftile , in the like cafes of backflidingandapo- ftafy, your charging them with a bitternefs unfimpled in any Satire , hath a higher tendency then probably you did ad vert unto. But you proceed , and what curfed doSirine is it Naphtali broacheth , concerning private perfons their pu- ni filing of crimes in cafe ofthefupinneffe of the Magijlrat? Pray, Sir, what is h is 2 more enforcing exigence then any necertky can be pleaded for felt- defence, the principal grounds of that privilege, proceedeth to aflert, to thefe fmall or great, Few or many whom the Lord ftirreth up in the ceafing and failing of other means, the power and right of Reformation ; and thence , by way of anticipation of an objection , he gocth on to shew , that the deed of Phimas may not be made a cavill , and that the famine, being only an heroick ftretch of his more fervent zeal, and not an extraordinary aft by reafonofany fpccial exprefs warrant , may , both for encouraging unto , and juftifying the like practices, very juftly be regard- ed as an imitable example : but as for your blunt and uncautioned general , vt\. that private perfons may pu- niflt crimes in cafe of the fupinnefs of the Magiflrat , I am confident who ever peiufeth that whole paflage in Naphtali , will find it no lefs calumnious on your part, then it is remote from the account that I have exhi- bited. Now , if you remain full of the opinion > that even the DoSrine , by me acknowledged for Naphta* IPs , is accurfed , when you shall have anfovered the reafons and Scriptures by which he confirms it, and particularly the command given , Deut. t$. v. 12, ij, 14, 15. with the examples oiPhineas executing judg- ment without legal procefs , Saul's fouldiers refcuing Jonathan from the Kings injuftice, Elijah killing Saul's Priefts , not by any fpecial command mention- ed, in the prefenceofthe King , without his leave, as the King himfelf narrates it, 1 KJngs 19. 1. and Aqiriah with fourfcore valiant Priefts , their refitting V\iah in his proud ufurpation, all of them lefs or more dependent , upon the forementioned pofition , it will befeafonableforcictoreply. It is true, one of £«4 The fevcnth Dialogue oi your party hath been at the pains to furveyN*^* tali , and particularly > and at great length , the points above mentioned 3 whether with candor , or with clamor, by ft ong and found reafon , or by carping, wrefting and ralfirying fophiftryj leave it to others to examine. Only when I confider, thatwheie, in the beginning , Nafhtali doth treate of thir matters , he doth it exprefsly and trudy by way of narrative from the doctrine and practices of our rirft Reformers , and that witha very obfervable caution and moderation , and that when in the end he doth refume this purpofe, he carrieth on his alTertion , from moft fimple and evident principles , by a very rational and perfpicuous Connexion , to theconclufion defigned j I do indeed marvel at the method wherewith I find him treated : but waving general vindications , feeing your whole party as well as your felf , do not a little talk ofNaph- tali his making ufe of that inftance ofPbineas , and do think , by the inferences w hich you t hence make , to rend.r the truth odious , it will not be amifs that I enlarge a litrle on this fubjeft. And rirft 1 fay , that the faft otPhimas appeares to me j .not to have been extraordinary , or to have pro- ceeded upon any particular commiilion to him given , but plainly to be luch, whereuato in its then- proper circumltances , any one of the Congregation was equally warranted , and which in the like exigence , hath ftill a laudable ufe for imitation. If you inquire my reafons , there can be none more convincing, then the Scripture account of this matter, Ifrael in Shittim, joines himfelf unto BaaLpeor , and the anger of the Lord being therefore kindled , the Judges are com- manded to flay every one his men that were joined unto Bad- f tor ; yet the plague by this execution is not flayed 3 and the whole Congregation are weeping before. Anlwered. 385- before the door ot the Tabernacle, when , behold , even in there light about fuch art' excrcifc , becauie of a deftroying plague raging in the camp , a man of lfrael in his molt impudent wickednefs cometh , bringing a Midianitifli woman unto his brethren , which Pbineas. perceiving , he rifeth up from among the Congrega- tion (taitnuam quilibct ) taketh a javelin? and going in after the lfrael ite brevi manu, in the very Act > thrufteth both the man and the woman thorow, and fo the plague was flayed , and the Lord faith unto Mo- fiSy Pbineas hath turned my wrath away front the children of lfrael j while he was jealous for my fake among them , win refore , behold , J give unto him my Covenant of peace and thus Numb, 25. Which the Spirit of the Lord again commemorating. Pfal. 106. Defcribeth in thefe words , then flood up Pbineas , and executed judg- ment , andfo tbe plague was flawed $ and that wascompted to hi?nforrighteoufneffe , unto all generations for evermore* by which Scriptures this deed , in it felf upon the mat- ter agreeable unto a pofiti ve and clear command,being reprefentcd , as proceeding , in the Author , not from any fpecial call from God? or command from Mofes > whereofthereis not the lead veftige in the Text, but from the alone impulfe of an holy and fervent Zeal, exciting him to ftand up to execute judgment, and therefore counted to him for righteoufnefle , Sec. If thefe be not the undeniable circumftances and charac- ters of a deed only in the manner heroick , and which any perfon in that Congregation, acting from the fame fincere zeal of God , might without any particular warrant have performed with equall acceptance, lee all ingenuous men judge. 2. 1 fay that whatever capacity may be attribute to Pbineas , 3s the fon ofElea^ar then high priefl, (which indeed is all we find in Scripture concerning him pre- B b ceeding 3 *o i ne levencn Dialogue eeeding this time) or upon the ground of any other conjecture ^ yet the famine doth no wayes make out , that this deed was an Act of ordinary adminiftration , and confequently deprives not Naphtali , of its perti- nent application , in as much as it is evident , that Pbineas did not do this deed , either by vertue and u- fing the power of any Authority, wherewith poffib- ly he might have been vefted , or yet by Mofes his order? or command, but (imply from the motive, of that fincere and high meafure of zeal whereby , without waiting the command of the fuperior Nlagi- ftrat , or obferving a legal procedure , he was fuddenly acted in fuch a flagrant , and openly provoking wick- edneffe, immediatly to interpofe and execute judg- ment j and therefore we fee , that as nather by Mofes his command, nor by the judges there obedience, in flaying every one his men that were guiltie , the fierce anger of the Lord was turned away ; To it was only by Pbineas his fact , as being of another nature , and his eminent zeal appearing & prompting him in fuch a manner that the Lord was appeafed, & the plague flay- ed. And really when I obferve,that it is in the readine (Te and fervor of Phimas , his zeal tranfporting him , as it were j totheomiffion of the ordinary folemnities of judgment , for the punishing of fuch a manifeft and provoking villany j that the Spiritof the Lord feem- eth to place the high and lingular praife of this acti- on , I cannot but equally admire, how that any per- fon , should either attribute it to an extraordinary command, or account it an Act of common obedi- ence to Mofes , or yet of ordinary jurifdiction. 3. I fay, that although in certain particular cafes , fuch as Abraham his ftretching out his hand to (lay his Son, the ljradits there borrowing'to thefpoiling of the Egyptians > and Samfons killing of hiraielf with • the Anfwered. 3 37 x\\t?hi''ijtihts , all obviouOy interfering with the ge- neral commands contained in the law , where an ex- prefs warrant is not recorded, the famine may , and ought to be Tuppofed ,■ yet where the deed is in fub- fhnceagrecabletothe precept, and t he .apparent fu> gularity of any circumftance remitigatcd by another extraordinary occurrent, and where the performance is exprefsly afcribed to the actors zeal or fortitude > and not the lealt mention made of any fpecial com- mand , there , to recurre to tacice warrants , is ajto- gether groundlefs. J f this the author of the Surzcv had adverted to , he could not in the purfuance of his ailed- geance, that the foveraigne God can crofs ordinary rules, and appoint fome to execute his judgments ex- traordinarily, wherein they are not to be followed without the fame fpecial commiilion (a truth which we do not controvert ) have thereto fubjoined exam-* pies fo widely different , as Mofes his killing the Egyptian which having vengeance admixed over and above the quality of the Ifraelits defence , is by Scrip- ture referred to an exprefs warrant A8.7. 24, 25. Ehud's killing of Eglon , which on the other hand was without all queition lawful to any Ifraelite againft fuch an oppreflbr , Eli as his deftroying of the fifties with fire from heaven, which no doubt doth not more upon the matter require , then by its extraordinary manner it is witnefled to have had an fpecial com- mand , his killing of RaaPs Priefts , which on the other part I do nothing qujftion, to have been only a noble aft of executing Gods judgment , which a wretched uxorious Prince fearing to do , the people themfelves mighe- lawfully have done : ^Abraham going to kill Jfiac, which is plainly and particularly commanded , David's ingaging in duell with Goliab as I judge , which any in the camp oilTrad might lau- Bb 2 dably 3 S8 The feventh Dialogue dably with the fame permiifion have undertaken , and laftly Samjoiis killing (not murthering, as he inadver- tently fpeaks) of the Philiftines with himfelf, which for the reafon above aligned did certainly proceed upon a particular licenfe. But the Sur-jeyefs defign in this fo inconfiftent a mixture is evident , trf£ that having premifed fo many, part pertinent, part imper- tinent examples to his pofition , he might with the lefTe obfervation adde the Lords ftirring up ofPhbuas as a futeable inftance , whereas it is obvious , that the fame is not more unlike to the cafes of Abraham, MofesySamfoh ScElias with the fifties, then it juftly qua drats tothat other ofElias againft £^/\f Priefts,& both this & thefe of Ehud & David , are nothing referable to the ground he layeth down ,but do plainly proceed by vertue only of general rules taking place in there refpe&ive exigences without thenecellity (whatever meflage Ehud de faElo had) of any fpecial commiiiion. 4. I fay , that Phi mas his fa& , was indeed a ftretch beyond the line of his ordinary vocation , but fo far from importing upon this ground the neceility of a fpecial warrant , that as the Scripture doth clearly impute this his tranfport to the rare meafureof his zeal , inflaming him in a manner to the prefent execu- tion ofajuft vengeance upon fuch a deteftable abo- mination; fo it doth no le(Te evidently hold forth how that particular and extraordinary exigence's de faElo occurring, the very common principles of duty, may, without a fpecial extraordinary warrant, carrie to lin- gular performances. And thus we are arrived at the main point, whereunto this example of Phimas is by 'Naphtali applyed , and about which both the Surveyer, and you do raife fuchanoife, and yet in effecVthe matter doth contain no greater difficulty in thefi , then that which is fully farisfied and removed by the moll common Anfwered. 389 common and ordinary diftin&ioq of a mans calling unco chat which is proper and particular j whereunto in the ordinary courfe of things, he is regularly and commonly confined , and unto that which is general, which not being circumfcribed by any particular rule, doch, from c he common obligation of the end for which all parricular ftatioosareinltitute, in the clear exigence of an extraordinary incident according to the general rules of righteoufnefTebind, to an agreeable practice. I know Napbtaliin his cendernefs to offend for preventing of miftakes , infinuates feverall diitinc- tions and fubdiftinctions , whereby an action heroick > and a call thereto , may be difcerned from that which properly and ftri&ly is termed extraordinary} and its call j and that the Surwyer in his rambling way, by proponing thediftin&ion of atts heroical and extraor- dinary to confift in this , vif. that acts heroical do not deviat from the common rules of vertue , but differ only from its common acts quoad rnodtim perfeEtiorem , whereas a<5ts extraordinary go beyond ordinary rules and are rounded upon fpecial warrant, goes about to irnpugne Napbtuli in chat wherein they both agree* But feeing that all the difficulty of thefe diftinclions,as I have faid , is very eafily and plainly refolved by thefe feveral aptitudes of a perlon in order to a commanded performance > which depending upon circumftances j may be thereby fo diversified , that what in the ordi- nary and unperturbed condition of things would be accounted an exceffe of our particular calling and an ufurpation , in an extraordinary occurrence becometh a neceflary duty of our general calling , and feeing the certainty and ufefulnefsof this diltinction, according to the continual variety of humane affaires , may be undeniably inftanced in thoufands of experiences, and particularly in that more ready then regular concur- B b 3 rence j 3 9° The feventh Dialogue rence> which we fee practifed in the cafe of fire, or any fuch furprifing calamity , the more zealous then orderly interpofition which all men would allow to a fop, even in the prefence of a righteous Magiftrat, for preventing or ftaying a fudden outrage intended againft his fathers perfon, that refentment of juftw dolor, which the common law indulges to a husband againft his wife and an adulterer found in the act in his own houfe>and in many fuch cafes, I think, I fay? that thefe things confidered without purfuing any further in- quiry , I may from the grounds already laid down fairly conclude, that as Pbineas his fact was not ex- traordinary in refpect of any fpeciai warrant, neither probable nor necefTary in this fub jett > but a pure pro- duct of that large meafure of holy zeal wherewith he was endued , and whereunto all men ought to afpire : fo there may be certain exigences of the glory of God? which tufting with afuteable degree of the fame zeall without waiting the confent of a godly , far more without regarding the oppofition of an ungodly Ma- giftrat, may, upon the general grounds and obliga- tions to righteoufnefTe , lawfully provoke and excite to convenient action. Now , if it be objected , that this conclufion being only general , allowing the power , but not defining what is the exigence requifite to its exercife , may more readily prove a fnare and an offence , then con - duce to any good purpofe, Jt is anfwered i. That feing my undertakeing was , to vindicat the Scripture truth of Pbineas his deed, recorded for our inftruction, from mens miftakes , and Napbtali from their ca- lumny , if I thence rationally elicite the inference made , the accidental hazard of mens mifapplication , flowing from their own weaknefs and corruption , cannot more properly be charged upon Ndfbtali ,«■ then Anfwered. $91 then vpon his Surveyor ; but it is in effect an inconve- nience , which all are concerned to explicate. 2. I freely acknowledge thatfuch is the fervour of corrupt paMion, far more rapid? aimed iri all, then the pure zeal of God is to be found aft ive in any , that too much caution , tendernefs and fear , can lea. Ce be adhibite in a fubject , wherein even the moll war- rantable provocation of holy zeal is ordinarily atten- ded, with fuch a concurrence of fclf-intereft and o- ther carnal temptations,as it is impollible without the fignalafliftanceofthe Spirit of grace, to have its ex- ercife, in any notable meafure or manner? without the mixture ofafinful allay, befide the evil ofill ex- ample ? whereunto , it may be very readily and moll pernicionfly drawn ; and therefore (eing the confi- deration , refulting from the concurrence of all cir- cumftances , whereupon the right dignofcing of fuch deeds doth moftly depend , is oftentimes moll diffi- cult j and delicate, the more eafie and fafe courfe, and bell ufeof this whole doctrine, is rather to give judgment upon a cafe of that nature , when actually exiftent, and its whole contexture expofed to certain examination , then to fet down general rules directive of fuch practices, But 3. As the Lord hath delivered unto us the rules of righteoufnefs , in themfelves cer- tain and evident, and abfolutely comprehenfive of all cafes incident , fo he , who knoweth and doth the fame, is no doubt of a good under Handing, and whofe heart is found in the Lords llatutes , walking therein continually in fear , humility and uprightnefs , he walketh furely and shall not beaehamed; The Law of the Lord is perfcH convertwgthefoul , the teitimonie of the Lord is fur e , making wife the fimple , the Statutes of the Lord are right, re^oycing the heart , the Command- ' mem of the Lord is pure , ejuightening the eyes. Here °Bb 4 is 3 gz The feventh Dialogue is the complete and fixed Rule , and who fo taketb heed thereto diligently, in faith and fear, is not on- ly fitted and prepared for all ordinary duty , but tho- rowly furnished unto all good works. It is true , that in all heroick , and more elevat acts , befide the rule and common vertue whence it flowes, we do find the exciting and impelling motions of the Spirit frequently mentioned , as cuftomary and neceilary thereto \ but feing unto every righteous performance, the alliftance of grace is requisite, and the impulfe and excitation mentioned is nothing elfe but a greater mea- fure of that 3ffifting grace , which the extraordinari- nefs of the cafe, and the difficulties therein occurring, do call for, and, at moft , doth only determine to the Jpcctes ('as Lawyers fpeak) of the action •, but it is not at all its rule and warrant , the interveening of fuch motions dot not alter the rule , or reftricYits ob- ligation , nor yet hinder the action fo performed , to be to all an imitable example. That actions follow- ing; from and depending uponfpecial antecedent com- mands , which, for the moft part, are lingular irj their matter, as well as in their manner, are not to be taken for examples , is very readily confeflTed : but that an extraordinary motion , iirft fuppofing duty, and in the next pi ace only requifite and given becaufe of fome uneafinefs in the execution, should reflrict the duty in general to thepeifon fo gifted, when the fameorthelikemeafureof aflifting grace is rather to 'be by all defircd , is not at all agreeable. I fay rirft , fuppofing duty \ for , that great gifts , or ftrong im- pulfesare not the rule of duty either under an ordinary or extraordinary exigence , much lefs do give men a call to go beyond the rules of their calling (as the Surveyer captioufty alJedgethNrfjp/;/-*/; tofuggeft ) is by me heartily conceeded, as a very important point for Anfwered. 393 for clearing the truth which I maintain ; That which only remains to be adverted to is , that although thefc lingular motions and impulfes be indeed fubiequent & fubfervient , both to the rule of duty , & to a mans calling refulting therefrom? and from the circum- ftances wherein he is ftated; yet, they feem to have fuch a peculiar determining influence in theieheroick performances, as to the Jpecies of the action, that it is not fo much the particular deed , that we are to heed for our imitation, as we are to emulac the grace and principle of zeal 3 which producctb it, and is therein ib confpicuoully relucent , for our upftirrmg to acts in like manner, as God shall give us the opportunity. From all which it is obvious , that as it is the oppor- tunity, m/rt#/,and thealliftent motion of the Lord's Spirit , which chiefly do determine, by way of excita- tion, as to the particular jpecies of an heroickence*? prife; fo, it is only from the known and immoveable Law of God , and the nature of the occasion, where- in the famine doth take place, & from which two our calling doth proceed , that the obligation of Phineas his deed , and of all other the like practices , doth defcend , and according whereunto they are to be ex- amined , and in their conformity thereto be propofed for imitation Thefe things then being thus explained , I shall take leave to lengthen chis- digreflion a little further , for the removing the Surjc.tr his calumnies and objec- tions againft Naphtali on this point. And firft , he faith , That Naphtali by adducing theinftance oj Phi- ileas , for the Patrochy of fuch , whom he wculi have efieemed , as ba~ ing aftedfrom the like warrant and prin- ciple, rnaleeth every man judge in Ins own privet di/cre. ttpHt to fa 'I in hand with fuch practices , and confe- qucntly giveth leave to all or any , upon pretenfe , crbe- Bb 5 caufs 394 The feventh Dialogue caufe he tlinketh that Rulers have fallen into Jpoftafie , by any means to cut them off. But I. if Phineas his fact be indeed fuch, and" of life for imitation, as I have already proven , the perverfnefs of the Survey erf Malignity , is not fo much levelled againft Naphtaliy as againft the very Scriptures of truth, whence his doctrine is taken. 2. Where doth Naphtali allow mens private judgment and difcretion to be their warrant in fuch practices i That every man doth defaBo judge9 and praftife according to his own private difcretion, is indeed no more requiflte to the procedure of ratio- nal agents, then, becaufe of mans ignorance and cor- ruption, it hath both in matters ofthiskinde, and all other matters of truth and righteoufnefle, been the fad produ&iveof many great inconveniences ; and if> for fiich inconveniences , the fure rules of truth and righteoufneiTe muft be altered , I am certain , as there is nothing truth , either in natures light or Scripture revelation, which hath, through mans a- bufe , produced fo many and fo fad evils , as that of the power of, and fubmifiion due to foveraigntty > which almoft every where, and in all ages hath been perverted unto tyranny and opprdlion, and, for one inftanceof diforder or fedition that, can be charged upon popular liberty, is attended with thoufands of far greater extravagancies ; fo the Survey er & his party of all men ought to be moft fparing in the fophiftry of fuch objections : but feing Naphtali zWdwctn no other judges dejure, fave thefe unerring rules, which the Lord hath 2 pointed, this fallacy which the Survey er doth conti oally and moft foolishly beat upon , tho- row all his Survey , alledging ftill where Naph. allo- weth to rationarmen a difcerning facultie , ( without which it is moft certain , that nather reafon nor mo- rality can fubfift) that therefore he doth fet up this judg- Anfwered. 395 judgment of difcretiou to be the only di&at of righte- oufnefle, isby that molt notour and obvious distinc- tion, ofthelaftrefultofthe practical judgment from the fixed ruleofrighteoufneffe, unanfwerably refuted , it being thereby manifeft , that , as the former is , de faBo i the ntctflary interveinent medium of application to every moral action -3 fo, the later is that, by which, dejure, both the judgment it felf> and the action thence enfuing , ought to be regular and judged, and with- out either turning the ufeof our difcerning , unto an implicite and ftupid deference and fubmiiiion, or exau&orating the rules of righteoufneffe , by a law* lefs licentious liberty. 2. The Surjeyer urgeth Naphtali with another ca- lumny ; and that is , That although Naphtali doth aU Udge , that he holdcth notfuch inflames as that o/Phineas for regular precedents , for all times and perfons $ yet he giveth no caution againfl the falfe pretenfe of heroical exci- tations , it is eafte to raife the divell , but notfo to las him> if he could fetdown rules t* bar a headie people from tit- m'dt and confufion, he would fay fomthingto fatPsfaBion. But 1 . Is not his declaring fuch inftances to be no regu- lar precedent, but reftriciting their imitation to the ca- fes of extreme neceiF}ty,or the like manifeft exigence, a very confiderable caution . 2. Naphtali doth fo plainly require , not only that the matter of the action be juft and lawful , and of itfelf natively and really conducing to the glory of God> but, inanevident necetfity , formally intended by the a&or from a Spi- rit of holy Zeal , wrought and excited by the Lord , with whom is the refidue of the Spirit , & who there- by breatheth upon people and perfons, when and as helifteth, that I marvel how the Survevcr was not ashamed to contradict fo clear an evidence t But if he fay ail thefe things may be pretended , where they are 3 96 The feventh Dialogue are not j and' for this there is no caution given. 'Tis anfwered , feing it is impoflible to adhibite a better caution againft hypocritical shevves, then thetouch- ftone of truth , whereby they are to be tryed , and the abufeof lying pretentions is incident unto the mofte- vident and certain duties , Napbtali /requiring truth and reality, and not admitting mens delufions , and imaginations, cannot be herewith juftly charged ; but, the truth is , the Surveycrs whole reprefentation of Napbtali in this matter is fo foully calumnious, that, without following him further , I shall content my felf briefly to review the objections, which he maketh againft the doctrine delivered , anent the imitablenefs ofPhineas his act , where finding himfelf caught by Scripture-evidence , how with disjointed reafons , and lame teftimonies, he ftrangely rofTeth and turneth him- felf for an i(fue>the impartial eye,in his eight particular Anfwers to Napbtali fubjoined , will ealily difcern. And. i.Hedoubtethif P/;/>2e<# was a private perfon, and thence doth groundleily pretend the warrant of his ordinary calling , as to the fact controverted. 2. De- parting from this , upon the fuppofition that he was a private perfon , he , without any reafon , infinuateth from Mofes his being prefent in that great alfembly of the people, and his after-approving of the deed, that therefore it was done bvhis authority and command 3, He impertinently differenceth the cafe of Ifraels fin, from that ofour prefent backdiding , whereas (waving the toomanifeft parity ofour prefent open rebellion againft the Lord, ufurping his Kingdom , changing his ordinances , and filling the land both with the idolatry of poperie and all leudneiTe , to the then horrible ido- latry and viilanous whoredome, wherein he places Ifraels fin) the main difparity of a then godly Magi- ftrat, is Naph* undeniable advantage, 4. He falfly , and Anfvvered. $97 and inconfiftently with his former grounds.'alledgeth , that Pbineas acted by fpecial commiiiion, of which the Scripture is not only filent, but doth very fignifi- cantly intimate the contrary , as we have heard, f. He foolishly cautioneth, that actions fpecially warranted , are not for common rules, to which I freely adde, that not only fuch> but even thefe, which are fpe- cial from the fole reafon of their fmgular exigence , are not to be drawn to common example. 6. He needrefly quarrelleth , anent the diftinction of Ads he- roical and extraordinary , and mifconftruing the Lords approbation of Pbineas, Numb. 2§. He plainly wreftcrhtheelogie. Pfal. 106. And that was counted unto him for right eoufneffe , as if its emphafis were not the rare commendation of the deed, but that other- wife it might have been imputed to him for fin , unto an inconcludent inference of a fpecial command and calling. 7. Hecalumniouflyaflerteth, that Napbtali holds great gifts , and fecret impulfes to be a fuffici. cnt call for men to go beyond the ordinary rules, which God hath fet to them in their callings , where- as , all we tind in Napbtali is , that joyning a zealous excitatron to the Lords command , in an exigence of extreme neceility , he thereof, for fuperabundance , maketh up a fufficient call to the heroick action there- on enfuing, And. 8. Andlaftly, he grofly perver- teththequeftion, as if any of usdidaffirme, that we have warrant now to look for extraordinary perfons, having Gods fpecial and fecret mandat to do works > which neithcrReafon nor Scripture do vvarrant,when, on the contrary , Naph. Labours mainly , t^ show , that even Pbineas had no Cuch character. Now thac thefe are the Surveyers reflections upon this fact of Pbi- neas, and this their fuccefle, the perufal of his Papers with what 1 have here faiddoth aboundantly cleare. Is 398 The feventh Dialogue It remains , in the next place > that 1 declare , how that , as Naphtali's doftrine , here vindicaced , is bv him only narrative delivered from the records of our firft Reformation ; fo , the famine is there truely and more fully to be found ; and that Mafier Kj.ox and our worthy Reformers were of the fame opinion , as to theinftance controverted , and from the ground there- of did give a refolution , in a cafe far more debatable , then that of Naphlali , the following paffage may evence. In the year 1563 the Queen having emitted a proclamation againft the Mafs , and yet conniving thereat 5 and the Kingdom being vifited by an univer- fal death 3 which matter K>ojcfayes, was for the ido- latry of our wicked Rulers , and our ingratitude, that fuffered them again to defile the land with that abo- mination ? the brethren generally offended , deter- mined to put to their own hands, and to punish, for example to others 9 and fo they practifed on fome, and made intimation to the reft. The Queen offended here at , fendeth for hiafter Kjiox , and dealeth with him f arneftly , to perAvade the people , and principally the Genlemen of the Weft , not to put to their hands to punish papifts. Matter knox> on the other hand, exhorteth her to execute juftice , which, if she o- mitted, he feared fome would let the papifts under- stand, that they should not be fuffered fo manifeftiy to offend without punishment. To this the Queen anfwereth, will yow allow 'that they shall take my fvvord in their hand? Now obferve his reply The /word of juflice , Madam ? is Gods , and is green to princes And rulers for one end > which if they transgrefs , /paring the wicked and oppreffmgthe innocents, they, that in the fear of God execute judgment where God hath comman- ded 5 offend not God , although Kjngs do it not ; nathcr yet [in they, that bridle kjngs toftrikf innocent men in their rage, Anfwered. 399 rage* the examples of Samuel 'flaying Agag, Elias Je- zabels Prophets , and Phineas, Zimri and Cozbi are evident. Andfoy Madam ■> your Majeflie may fee , that others then cheifmagijlrats have lawfully punished , and may punijh , the crimes that God commands to be pu- nijhed. By which difcourfe it is evidences the fun light, that Naphtali in place of being the broacher of this do&rine doth indeed come short of that, which Mr Kjiox hath long (ince aflertedjit is true, in his conclufion he faith, others then chief Magiftrats,& as if meaning by infe- rior thereafter fubjoines, that by aft of Parliament po- wer is given to all judges , to fearch and punish mafs- mongers and hearers } but feing the fame is only fpo- ken with an accomodation to the then cafe, and that both the grounds oi'Mafter Kjioxhis reafoning,in this place , and his declared opinion , in his appellation &admonition to the commonalty,-^, that the punish- ing of idolatry and fuch crimes, as touch the majeftie or God, doth not appertain to rulers only, but to the body of the people, and every member thereof , according to his vocation , and according to that pof- (ibility , which God doth minifter , together with the manifeft confequence of clear reafon, give no lefle power to the people againft fubaltern then to fubal- tern againft fupreme magiftrats, J need not hereupon enlarge , far lefle to anfwer the furveycrs profane & inconfiftenr reflections upon thefe times: if the oppofition then made to idolatrous and perfecuting Rulers , had been indeed [edition or rebellion finfully raifed for fome unjuftcaufeextrinfecktothe matter of religion , by our firft Reformers, as many profeflbrs of that time were nodout too palpably guilty of facrihdge and felf-fcekjng , there had been ground co have placed all into one category , and vin- dicate 4oo The feventh Dialogue ^icate the Lords word from the fin of fuch inftru- ments : but feing,the then-refiftance was vifibly made in the fam^ Spirit > which, in thepreceeding difpen- fation of and call to fufFering , had fo patiently and conftantly endured tirie and bloudy trialls , for the teftimony of Jefus , and was carried on by thefe refor- mers , who continually teftifying againft the facri- ledge and fdr-feeking mentioned 5 did from clear fcripture- grounds, outofthe manifeft zeal of God , and for the maintenance of his Gofpel , ftrenuoufly afTert and pro move thefe courfes, it is certain, that their teftimony is very fignificant, adding as much confirmation , as can be drawn from humane authori- ty; and the Surveyers alleviating thereof, byalled- ging that our Lord was crucified by wicked hands , and yet the rcfult was the worlds redemption-) that reprobat minifters have faved their hearers , a leprous hand may fow good feed , and that heirs of glory ?nay be gotten in bajlar* dv , is not more impertinent from its non coniequence, thefe works being manifeftly evil, then wickedly con- tumelious and ungrate : but behold the inftability of this double minded man, who having vented all this foul malice , againft thefe doings of our fiift Refor- mers, fubjcineth, let it befo , that much of their way was juftificable upon the account of thefe motives , which thenimpelled' them ; yet how unlike was the cafe then. to what it is now, &o Whereby it is evident, that it is neither Naphtali's principles, nor yet his doc- trine concerning Pbineas , but the Surveyers different prefent apprehenfion of the hvpothefis & confequently the blindfolding charme of felf-intereft againft the po- werof truth , that feduceth him and his accomplices to their abfurd contradiction. Having thus afierted Naphtali's doctrine againft yourmalignemifreprefentation, ic is time thatlcon- fider? Anfwered. 401 fider> what you objc&e againft him. And you fay ranftck. all the Pro~ji)icial Utters , Efcobar or the other prof one Cdfuifls , you (hall hot find a more impious and detefiable opi)iion among them , then this doctrine concer- ning private perfons their puniflvngoj crimes , in cafe of the fupinmffe of the Magistrate. But pray , Sir, x. Wherefore do you enumerat the Provincial Letters , fo elaboratly write againft them 3 among other profaneGi/«//fr?This your el'cape, it defigned , should be a bad reward for the Au- thors pains taken againft that wicked School, 2. Though the aflertion > as by you indefinitly laid down ? be not a little invidious ; yet feeing it is un- deniable , that Phineas and Elias did , neither as Magiftrats , whatever was their capacity , nor by fpecial warrant , punish crimes and execute judgment; and that defperate dilbrders in the publick govern- ment , may , by the force of neceffity 3 licenfe to private pcrfons , fpecially parents and mailers 5 this power controverted , to atfirme without exception that the doctrine concerning private perfons their pu- nishing of crimes , in cale of the fupinnefs of the Magistrate , is curfed > feemeth rather to be the effect of palfion thenofreafon. 3. Divine impulfes have been and areftill cafible, and that the Lord thereby , without the giving of any fpecial commiifion , may llirreup to fuch an heroick act , as though neceflarily debording from common methods , may not thclefs, in "its whole tract and event , be attended with fo peculiar a luflre and evidence of Gods approbation, as may even force from you an aflfent , notwithftandiug that the deed can only be maintained bythefe general pofirions , which you Jeeme to difprove , is to me unquelliona- ble. And therefore , your fo feycrc difowning , Cc whit hour 40i The ieventh Dialogue without any reierve, of private perions their punish- ing or crimes, m cafe of the fupinnefs of the Magi- ftiate , excluding all poifibility of divine excitations to that purpoie, appeareth to be very precipitant. Are the contingencies of humane affaires, and their furpnlals and preflures fuch as to move Kings and Princes ou earth, over and above all fixed and regu- lar courfes , to define certain caufes and occafions , Quando liceat unicuiqnejine judice fenSmdicarettelpublicd :dtVcliomm>& \ub\ugart ediclo quodferum cjjetpunire ju- diciojita ut cun&hadvcrfus Lot rones public os, defer tore] que militia?) jus Jibifcitnt , pro quiete communi , exercend* public* ultionis ■> induhum : And if, in the far more preffirig and confpicuous exigences of the glory of God , when Soul- murderers and Chrift-delerters , are not only permitted but patronized, the Lord, in that cafe, animat private perfons to heroick undertak- ings for his glory, when all other judgment faileth , shal the juftifying of fuch pra&icesjthough other wife countenanced by many undeniable teftimonies, be ex- claimed againft as accurfed doctrines i far be it from us, and all that love the Lords glory, and adore his foveraignity. I fay , otherwtfe countenanced, wherein> I protell finccrily , I have no deiigne , bur to vmdicat the truth and wayesof the Lord? with all tendernefs and fear, and with ail due ;egard to the. deceitiulneis of humane paflion and corruption , are there not many fuppoiuions cafible , wherein , to fpeake roundly & ireely in the extreme prciTure either ot our own , or our neighbours iiuercit m matter of life or eftate, both you, and J3 and all others, what, ever be our shy nefTe in opinion , would have a cleaa> ncfle to adt many things of the fame nature with, or as important as the punishing 01 crimes , not only with- out, but even, in fome cafes , againft the Magiftrate: how can we then deny the l»ke obligation and war*- rant to the* higheft and moft important concernment of the glory ot God,m its juft and manif ft exigence i Sir , 1 know that the wrath of man workethnot the righteoufnefs of God : but , verily ; when I reflect, how that in many cafes relating to felf , the moft pare of men , and even dilTem biers in pro fell ion , are ne- verthelefTe in practice firmly perfwaded , and , in fome cafes, all without exception, are even in opinion moil determined , as to their right and obligation of defence and reflftance , And withall confider , that our love , which is certainly the foundation of this right and obligation , ought to be intinirly more in- tended toward God , then toward all things elfe , I cannot but wish , that both the perfwafion and zeal of all men , in his matters , were accordingly pro- portional to their value : But oh / who is now on the Lords fide ? and who are they thatafpire unto Levi's bldliug , who faid unto his father and to his mother, I have not feen him, neither did he acknowledge his brethren , nor knew his own Children f 5. Although the pofition be by you exhibited , in- Cc z fuch 404 The feventh Dialogue fuch a laxe Manner, as if, upon the emergence of every crime , every private perfon were conftitute the Magiftrats overfeer and exacter of his adminiftra- tions , that you may the better load us with your forged abfurdities ; Yet Naphtali's doftrine above declared, over and above the juft exigence required, is fo clearly fet down in the cafe only of grofs and no- torious backfliding and defection , countinancedor connived at by the'JVlagiftrate, wherein the concern- ment of Gods glory, and our call to atTert the fame, is far more difcernable and manifeft , then in the punishing of other crimes , that, I hope , I have faid enough to cut off vain and impertinent cavillations. It is therefore certain , that though this doctrine con- cerning private perfons their punishing of crimes, in cafe of the fupinnefie of the Magiftrate,in its undefin- ed and uncautioned latitude , may be obnoxious to grofs abufes, yetabfolutely to deny the fame, and thence to condemne not only many fair fcripture- examples, but all heroick excitations, which, in their futeable exigences , are by a clear concurrence of cir- cumftances manifeftly demonftrate to be from theSpi- rit of God , as to the matter warranted by his com- mand, and, in their manner dependent on his fove- raignity ■> were moft rigid and unjuft, But you go on and tell us , that what curfed ejfe&s this curfed doBrim produced , allfhe Nation faw , when in the fight of the Sun , a villain , with a pifiol , invaded the perfons cf two of the fathers of the Church , and that in the chief fir at of our roy all City. What an empty pomp of words have we here to make out this curfed effec\,a villain , fathers of the Church , chief fireet , roy- al City , big words indeed. Sir , the way to be juft in your refentments , isfirft to be equal , and then I doubt 3 but if you have as much refpsft to out Lord -Anfvvered. 405 Lord Jefus , King over his Church , as you pretend to your fathers of the Church, that the wrongs and invaiions by them villainoufly committed? with a high and infolent hand, in the fight or all the Nations, againft his glory and prerogative, will not only make *you give to them the epithet , wherewith you cenfure their invader , but account the effects of their wickedneffe a hundred - fold more accurfed : But left I offend you by fuch extenuations 1 verily think , all circumftances considered , & their exigence due- lyballanced, that the deed was rash, precipitant & of evil example \ but wherefore accurfed , fince againft jfucha/rcr .an caput , and a perfon felf-devoted , upon whom and his affociats, by executing juftice, both our Rulers , and the whole Land , may fo certain- ly confecrate themfelves unro the Lord, that he might bellow a Welling upon us , I confeffe I heli- tate. In the next place you adJe , that though the provi- dence of God Raided one of your fathers totalis from his fury* and preferred the life of the other > though with the lojfe for rather difablingonlyj of his arm', yet his ma- lice was not to be blamed , for that aflafjinations were on- ly wanting to complete the parallel betwixt that Spirit and the Jefuits , which is indeed the fame moving in dif- ferent characters. But , feing you would appeare fo accurate m obferver of Providence , why do ye not alio remember , howcafily and fafely the inva- der did efcape/3 Surely whatever may be the moment of thefe circumftances of the fight of the Sun , and the chief flreet of our royal City , as to the aggravation for which you adduce them; yet, in order to this paffage of the efcape they are of a more important confidera- tionto render it remarkable. If you fay that even- tual impunity, doth not argue innocency, theretor- Cc 3 fion 4.06 The feventh Dialogue fion is fo juft ana manitett againlt your reafoning from the Bisnops their providential pref.rvation , that I need not infill But tiiis was an affalfi nation only wanting to complete the parallel betwixt that Spirit and thejefuits , which is indeed the fame moving indiffe- rent charaSlers. Sir ? if I did intend the patrocinie of this faft 3 I could tell you* i. That there can be no proper aflaHinat, without an interveening price, which in this cafe ? you do not fo much as aliedge. 2. Admitting your meaning to be only of a delibe- rat in!idiating murther , yet> I would have you to confider, that it is from the matter, and nor from the manner that the guiltinefs of many deeds , doth principally defcend : For , as we muft acknow- ledge the greateft villanies to have beenlometimes perpetrat in forme of juftice , fo it cannot be denyed, that very eminent acts of righteoufnefs have been per- formed without any legal procefs , as the deed of Phine^s and the other examples above adduced, with many luch like Hiftories that might bealledged , do plainly hold out ', and really , when I confider but this one ws(. how iW'/murthering ot the Lords Priefts,and Jelm his killing of the Pneftsoftf^j asco their jjummare manner of p:ocedor, of fo near alliance, nay> that this later hath plainly, in refpect of the diflimulation ufed,a vvorfe appearance then the former , I think this one reflection may direct you un- to a more folid judgment in thir matters. $. The Jefuits their mifchievous plots, f owing from a per- nicious principle,enfiaving mens conCcknces to an im- plicite compliance to their d'&ats , without all re- gard to forms of juftice , and bein^ levelled againft innocent perfons , in order to their mod wicked ends* and defignes, are not only moil remote , yea mod oppofite to Naphtali's do&rine j but nothirgcoun- ' te- Anfvvered. * 407 tenanced by this very fact wherewith you urge us. But having above , fcrioufly difowned this rash andinconfiderat attempt, and already cleared, how that it is not only the matter , but the concurrence of circumftances , bearing fuch a preiling exigence, as either cannot be fatilricd by , or needem not to attend the ordinary courfe of law, which doth Tuftsin their more lingular and heroick attempts , your paralleling of that Spirit ( of NapbtalPsl fuppofe) fo congruous both in principles and practice,unto undeniable fcrip- ture grounds and precedents, with that perverie and cruel one , working in the lefuites , and makirg them to be the fame moving in different characters , is like unto the reft of thele bold and groundlefs calum- nies , wherewith you ftudy to reproach : However, it were to be wished , that you who , upon fo unlike- ly grounds, have the confidence to draw parallels, were upon the other hand as ingenuous , astoconfi- der thefemoft certain and evident arguments of pride, violence,faishood&irreligion,vr hereby your prelatick Spirit doth diicover it felf , to be not only Jefuitick 5 but unqueftionably Antichnftian and diabolick. Now in the clofe, and after having made it your work all along to brand any meafure of zeal for God to be found amongft us, with the characters of a four ? unfociable , violent and cruel difpofition , you adde ? / hat you charge not this faB upon the p trtf > but acknowledge that all of them abhorre /f jbut yet you fub-' joine j that, without all uncharitablensfs, you may charge it on the Author of Naphtali ; And thus having be- fore mentioned Naphtali , as one of their Books and Authors , at left owned by them , the vanity and deceit of this your infinuation is too too palpable. But fang that which is crooked cannot be made ftreight , it shall fuffice me to fay , that , as I have C c 4 evinced 4.os The feventh Dialogue evinced NaphtalVs doftrine to be none other > then the juft vindication of Phineas his practice copied from our firft Reformers, and alio shewed, that the fa& , which you do here objefte , hath not thereon any rational dependence ; Co your particular charge , with all the foolish clamour of your party, upon this account , againft Naphtali , doth not io much reflect upon him , as on Phineas , and the Holy Ghoft by whom he was afted." After this? you caufe yourN.C. complain > of your defign , To make him rcgardlefie of thejlate of the Church ? andneghEiiveofthe i mere ft of Chn 'fi S contrary to that tender ajftBion we ought to bear him , and the ex- ample of his Saints , and only after the manner of'Gallio's indifferency. And to this you Anfvver, That all things have two fides , and fo this doctrine of rejignation, on the wrong fide , feems like unconcerned flupidity ', and yet , rightly confidaed » it k one of the higheft pieces ofChri- jtiantiy. Whence you go en , from the infinite Power* Goodr.effe , and Wifdom of God , to reprove the folly and preemption of anxiety , anent the Lords manage* ment of matters, Jpecially the concernments of his Church , and to per f wade us to commit the fame to him , and to refl fecurely on thts , that all things cooper at <$c But ft ill you fay , We are to conceme our f elves in the good of the Church , 45 by fervent folic! ting of God in her behalf, ■ whereby our qeal for God's glory , and charity to the Bre- thren are expreffed ; fo by improving all opportunities of dot ng good in as far as we are called, up on all hazards: Yet, even in this , we are, with David , not to meddle , in matters too high for us , And with Paul, not\to firetcb our [elves beyond cur line : And with all not to let dejecting melancholy poffefs our f elves , contrary to the tnd and contrivance of Religion t which is to beget in us tverlaflwg joyes , which by fuch forrows are moftly marred Anfwered. 409 marred . Sir , I have fei down this paflage at large , not chat I find in your anfwere abftrattly contidered > anyerrorj feing it is very certain , that the wro.igs done to thefe mod dearly affe&ing concernes ofGcd's Glory and his Churches welfare , ought not to be more tenderly affl.&ing , and powerfully excitingto duties of prayer, and all righteous indeavours, then the Lords high and holy Soveraignity is both moft ftrengthening to thefe duties, and comfortably exclu- five ofall finiul anxiety and dejection , the heavenly return made to our Lord , I have both glorified my Name , and willglorij it again , doth abundantly hold out this confiftency • and is fo far from being contra- ry to a holy touching grief? upon that account , that on the other hand, you may find the neceihrycer- cainty of God's Glory, the ground both of the ear- ned and aflurance of our Lord's lupphcation , and of the comforting anfwere made to his troubled foul , whence it did proceed. But> that which I wouid enquire , is how you c^me to make fuch an anfwere to your N.C. challenge, which being very rational and found, complaining only of a ftupid mifregard and profane indifTerency, without the leaft flexure to the other extreame of finful anxiety, had, in my thought , been better and more ingenuofly anfwered by a fimple denial , then by your unneccfTary cautions : To oppofe one truth to another can have no innocent defign: Js'ay , if I may ufe your ov, n maxime, that all things have tiro fides , I fear this your difcourfe prove alfo double faced, and that, under the colour of exceilive anxiety & dejecling me- Iancholy,you do indeed condemn that mean of a con- cerning folicitude for GodsGlory and iiis Churches wellfare, which you'feem to allow, and by mfi- nuating , joy to be the end and fruit of Religion > Cc 5 refolve 410 Thefeventh Dialogue reiolve all its ierxoumefs into die uiuiiTerency ob- jected . But left you judge this challenge, which is only an anticipation, to be w ant of chanty > I proceed to what endues , which is firft your N. C's reply , to wit : That, aU this your preceeding difcourfe is fiill contrary to the holy men of God ; the Pialms, P rophets, & Lamen- tations are full of fad complaints , and certainly a greater meafure of %eal becomes the more clear manifeflation of the love of God under the Gojpel. And to that return which you give to it , running out upon the difference or the oldandnewdifpeniation, Jlwving forfooth, that out- ward deflations and loffis , which under the former were curfes and grievous , under the later are pronounced bleffings and matter of joy, and fo forth. What ftrange dealing and doctrine is this ? Your N. C. tells you of the complainings and mournings of the holy Men of God in old times , for the dcfolation of Gods houfe, departing of his Glory, and the blafphemie of his Adverfanes , Which I am certain every ferious foul will take to be no other , then the fame careful regard to the Glory of God, and the good of his Church > which juft now we heard you ap- prove , and is, no doubt, infeparable from the true Love and Zeal of God in all ages : But yau, in your prefent Anfwere , would have thefe regretes to be only futeable to a carnal difpeufation , and nothing agreeing to thatoftheGofpel. Now, if this be not a palpable difcovery of yourfiniftrousdefign , let all men judge: Or if you think that I do wreft your words , do you, or any man els, make them per- tinent , in any other fenfe , & I am content to bear the blame. But neither rs this your doctrine in it felfe more fouid : You fay , That outward deflations and af- fMiorrs, Anfwered. 411 flifl''onf , were of old , jignt* o <~>ods difplcafure, O' cur- fes: Ht tow the- are p> >nvtnced and mate bieffh.gs Pray Sir, makeyouno diftincnon ocuvixta ilgn or Gods di pleaiure , and a curie : Or do you th.nk , that iufferings and afflictions, may not be , bothfignspf difpleaiu/e againft fin , and vet profitable corrections, yea matter ot joyous comolation in the event i Cer- tainly, if you had confulted Scripture in this matter, you would have iound , that , as die fuffenngs of Gods People under the New V ftament : are ac- counted chaftifements , and confequently figns of the Lords difpleafure againft fin , which thereto pro- vokes \ Co j under the Old they were nolefs to be by them regarded , a- thecruftenin^s of a loving father, and the rebukes or love : Bur it leems you have for- gotten the exhortation, which under bothdifpenfa- tionsTpeaketh untothe Lords People, asuitochil- dren , M\ fan dejpife not thou the chaflening of the Lordy nor faint when thou art rebuked ojh'ua-, for whom the Lord loveth the chxfteneth and fcourgeth ever y fan whom he re~ ceivcth- Nay , blefied is the nun whom thouchaflenefl , O Lord , and teachefi out o> thy law , being Co plainly faidof old, I wonder how you could lapfe into thir miftakes . I grant that the Jewish difpenfarion is much countenanced by temporal promifes , and that ev-11 the manner of divine fervice thereby appointed , did much depend upon their performance , Whereas that better Covenant being tftablished upon better promifes, is, in effect, fo ordered , that afflictions and perfections did and do t:nd rather to its advance- ment : But , if thence you conclude , either that the People of God in old times were to regard their fufFerings , as they refpccted:hemfelves, differently from what is commanded to, and commended in Chriftians, or that their complaints for the corrupted or 41 x Thefeventh Dialogue or fuppreffed Worship of God , and the departed Glory by reafon of prevailing backfliding, or outward defolation , may not now under the Gofpel , in the like calamities, be lawfully -and laudably refumed , over and above your evildefign mentioned, you be- wray palpable ignorance. I might here further adde, that you may not only obferve the fame patience and fruit of chaftifements under the old,that is found under the ne w difpenfation, butalfo read the grace and glory of their confeffions and martyrdomes, in almoft the fame termes, where- in you go about to rcprefente the fufTerings under the Gofpel as new and lingular. Others were tortured not accepting deliverance , they wereftoned, they were fawn afunder , were tempted, were jlain with the (word > they wandered about infoeep-skjns , being deftitute , afflicted > tormented, of whom the world was not worthy. Pray Sir , who were they, or wherein is this account short of that , which you exhibite of Chriftians their re- joicing in fufTerings , except in the vain excefs of your fuperftitious fem'vals , vi%, the dayes of the death of Martyrs, obferved by the Church under the name of Natalitiae Martmtm < But I have already fufficiently demonftrateboth the folly and falshood of this your impertinent diftin&ion : And the mixture of the cup of Gods Children,bemg clearly confirmed by the ex- perience of all ages , your taxing of our mourning becaufe of a broken Covenant, a profaned Sanftuary, and abounding wickednefs and violence , as finfui re- pining, becaufe of perfonal fufferings , notwith- ftanding that the joy and ftrength of the Lord hath been very confpicuousin our dying WitnefTes, and our other Sufferers , doth plainly adde malice to your ig- norance. i But Anfwered. 413 But in our complainings you reprehend both in- juilice acd excefs , and for mjuftice you tell us , That the reafon thereof js only the alter At ion of the Latvs and the Magiflrat's deming to us further encouragement > a?id punijhing m not for Confcience > fince none hath juf~ fired becaufe he wasjor Pres b\tery , or againfi Epifcopa- cvj but for unruh humors and practices. Sir, if our complainings and mournings,were according to their juft caufes , yi%. our high handed Rebellion againft God, unparalleled breach of Covenant, perjurious fubverfions and alterations of the Ordinances of God, afwel as the Laws of the Land , with the profanity, ignorance and violence, that have thence abounded and tilled the whole Land , neither should I, or any of the fearers of the Lord , have eyes to write or read this my vindication. It is true, all this iniquity and mifchief is introduced and eftablished by form of Law , and thence you take the impudence to fmooth it over , as if there were no more in it , then the al- teration of Laws ; nay, as if what before the Aft 8c Law made were righteoufly refufed out of con- fcience j after theacceifionofan humane injunction could not be forborn , but out of humor: And as if Confcience and Laws could not interfere, you go on to tell us , That the reafonof our fufferhigis neither our adhering to Presbytery , nor our non . compliance with Eptfcopacy , but only our unruly humors a. id practices. But feing the colour of Law, which you pretend, is indeed no relief of confcience , but the greateft ag- gravation of that Apoftacie and perfecution , where- of we complain , and that notwithftanding of any reproch wherewith you do (lander it, the true caufe of all ourfufTerings is none other then our ftedfaftnefs in the Oath of God, binding us to the maintenance of presbytery , and extirpation of your Prelacy. And, laftly, 4 14 The feventh Dialogue laltly, feing that we bemoan no violence, either to death, banishment, bonds orfpoile, which, the taking of your Declaration againft the Covenant, would not cenainly have prevented, thewknefs of our caufeand fufferings , who is in Heaven, heareth , and will reprove .or his People, matter of heavy complaint, and deep mourning , but doalfo , greatly rejoice inthac grace and glory , whereby the Lord hath countenanced and beauaried the tryals of particular fufferers amongft us , no lefle then thefe of any other his Martyrs upon record : And yet after you have confounded the complainings of the Lord's People ofold, for the defolations of his Sanctuary with their concernment in their own private loffes , and falfeiy , and vainly diltmguished betwixt the duty and deportment of Gods People under the old and under the new difpen- fation , in order to afflictions ,you fay dully, without any connexion or regard to the mixtures of the cup of Gods People , Our way is not what we imagine , els wc Should rejoice > that we are called to fujfer forit. But the Lord , who giveth us both ftrength and joy in our fufferings , doth all'o know and hear our mournings , and will reprove your mocking. But you fay, That our bitternejfe againji our enemies > lookj nothing likj the miidneffe of Chrijt or the primitive Sufferers. How long will \ou love vanity , and feel^ after leafing f That we approve not bitternefTe againft our perfecutors upon any account, is our ferious pro- feiiion whereunto our practices ought to be conform : But with all>that we hate their way,pray that they may lay afide their opposition to the caufe and people of God, otherwife,that fuch troublers were even cutoff, and when God enables and calls , do ftand up for the defence of the Gofpell and our felves againft evill doers > is fo far from jarring with primitive prece- dents 516 The feventh Dialogue dents that both Scripture , Reafon , and the practice of all times do allow it. And really Sir, when I consi- der thefe your difcourfes , fo direftly tending to the blunting nay extinguishing of all zeal for God > and the perfwading of a ftupid ( not patient ) endurance of all injuries , under the pretext of Chriftian Re- signation , that wickednefs and violence, (6 much at prefent prevailing , may the better be eftabilished t as 1 cannot but regrete this point of your conformity to primitive examples , ( not indeed thefe of Chri- ftians, but of their perfecucors5 who in the mad- nefTe of their wickednefs did often whet their vio- lence, and intende their cruelty to the perfecuted by their fcornful reciting of the gofpell precepts to pa- tient fuffering ) ; So , I mull tell you my fears , that your pretendings to the ferene and dove-like fpi- rit > are only collours,topalliat your deep deceit and malice. But making your N. C. decline your inftance of the primitive Chriftians with a vaiu fcofFof your own iugg:Ring,that far fowls have fair feathers , and appeal to the practice of late Reformers , as fuch who univer- fally refified the Magiftrate , out of an exceding vene- ration, as you pretend to the fame Reformers , you do undertake from undeniable evidence of Hiftory , to convince us ofthefaljhoodof that vulgar error , that the Reformation was carry ed on by refinance. But here, in the entrance , you muft give me leave , ( though I acknowledge that you take no advantage from it ) firft to rectify your expreflion , that the Reforma- tion in many places , where oppofed by force, w^as maintained by refiftance , Is that which we with as plain and full an evidence as can be inftanced in any matter of faft , do very confidently aflert : But that it was carried on by refinance , I s not only inconfiftent, . ( refiftance Anfwered. 417 refijhmce founding rather for the defence then the ad- vance of any caule, orintereft vvhatfomever ) but ac- cording to the proper import of the phrafe , carrying o«) intimating force to have been the mean ufed to propogat Religion , very falfe and caluminous. 2- I mult pre mile that when I reflect on your under- taking in this place? and there with compare that of Doctor Heylen in his Aerius redhhks , lean not but obferve the deep deceit of Sathan's contradicting Methods for advancing one & the fame error : for whereas todifprove the righteoufnefTe of Definfivc Amies , in behalf of Religion , you go about to show that all the lawfull wars infkanced on our part for our aflertion , had their rile from an other caufe ; he , on the other hand , aiming at the fame mark, isfo far from referring thefe wares to any other caufe, that in his fury againft Psesby.tery , he chargeth all home upon the Reformed proteftant Churches , as Religious rebellions, juftas in an other cafe, vi%: for one and the famedefign of deftroying Confcience and making void the ordinances of God , we find the Devilltheold Serpent winding him felf in courfes nolefs oppofite : for while on the one hand Hay- lour ftandeth up for the liberty of prophefying, and Hemrit More for his liberty of Confcience \ And on the other Holes and Parker do no lefs plead for the fubjection of Confcience to the Magiftrat's dictates ; that both do ioyntly point,though differently,the for- mer by diiTolute relaxing, and the later, by a wret- ched blindfolding and enflaving , to makevoidCon- fcience and all its obligation in thefe matters of God > which they would have to be Arbitrary, is evident as the Sun's light. But palling thefe preliminaries , and without fur- • ther prefacing upon the ftrange and felfe cotradifting Dd Ar- 4 1 8 The feventh Dialogue Arguments? whereby you go about to make an unde- nyatie > nay generally on ali fides an undenyed truth , a vulgar error A come to examine your proof s. And tirft, you lay, The Waldenfes njifted not the KJng oj France , & v clear in the Hijiory , notwithftanding oj unparalleled f executions, vi%. 60000. killed in one town ofBe%itrs,& 7000. Murdered at once in one Church* It vs true that there were wars betwixt the Count of Montfort £T f/:r Count of Tholoufe;WTholoufe wot a Peer 0/ France, and a vajfal rather then afubjec~l, befides he only fought a- gainft Montfort, who was a bloudy Emijfary oftbePopesy not authorised by Philip then KJng o/Trance , who only permitted bts fubjeEls to Arme in this war. So thtt here there was no refiflance of fubjeBs againji their Soveraigne. A man would think, by the reading of this paflage, that certainly all thefe thoufands killed at Beyers, were in a fubmitfive non - refiftance perfecutedio death by theKings Authority , els to what purpoie is their not refitting of the King, notwithftanding of their unpa- ralleled perfections by you mentioned? And what can the connexion import? For,if either they were not perfecuted by the King , or not killed without refin- ance, it is evident , that the inftance is altogether im- pertinent. And yet it is certain, that as this execution was indeed one of the funefte efTe&s of the war,which you afterwards mention , and therefore not fuffered without refiftance; fo, you your felfe, upon the fame confiderationjdo deny tht King's concurrence &there- by plainly fubvert the infinuation here made of their fubmilllon,& difcover your own abfurdity.But that I may cleare the truth in this particular from your con- f ufion &deceit; the matter of fa& (as by all recorded) Js moft clear, -J%. that , that time being the very hour & power of darknefs, wherein all theWorld wondered after the Pope , it was indeed by his inftigation ? and , 1 in Anfwered. 419 in a manner, under his banner? vb{. The Croifade, that rhis war was railed againft the Waldenfes j & confe- cjuently by him was the Count of Moutfort nominate to the conduct thereof; and, for his better encourage- ment , had , by decree of Councel,the dominion W Tholoifi gifted unto him. Butasicismoft apparent that the King, who not only permitted his Subjects to go to that war, but lent his Son to take the erode in it, as you vour (elf doalledge, and alfo allowed of the commitlion, and confirmed the Gift made to Si* mon , did therein concurre; So your denying thereof is both groundlels and abfurd : Groundlefs, becaufe of the deeds of his concurrence mentioned and con- firmed, by all the Hiftories of thefe wars, and by your felfe confefled ; abfurd , becaufe if the King did not concurre.the example proves not your affirmation, vi%. That the Waldenfes did not refifi the Kjngof France no: with 'landing they were grUvoufty perfecuted. No a- before I proceed, for confirmation of what I havefaid both of the King's perfecution and the TVJdenfcs their refiftance, take the following tefti- monies, w£ Hortatu Pap idem ad ann. illy. Varia certamina,marteque vario inter Inbertum Bellojocenfem iflar urn parti urn regium reBorem , & Raymundum Tho^ lofanum hareticorum five feH at or em five fautorem , inita funt : & anno 1228. fanEiim at que illuflrius rebut interea in Gallia fubflrenuo & fan&o P^gepuero , ac fcemmapru- dentifjima regni Procuratrice procedentibus , dum ex una parte &c.& exaliaperduelles Hcligionis, vi& fuajioni- bus manus dare coguntur &c.obfejfaenim 4&Imberto cum exercitu P^egio Tholojfa > c. with many the like pai- fages which may be feen in this Author , Innocentius tertimadiftam ( Albigenjium) harefin extirpandam tyc arma in eos excitat , curam autim belli Leopoldo <($c. <& Simoni Comiti Montisfortis demandat ■> urbes vi capt without uuinuating any diftinction , fo that this generality , being manifeftly abfui'd? doth of neceffity evince them to have an other meaning , and to be nothing conclusive to your pur- pofe. Or do you underftand , mat in this the caule of Religion is lingular , that though againft perfecting inferiors or equals, Religion , afweil as other, rights , doth permit defence; yet againft the Powers over us, it is fubject io a fpecial rettraint. Aifigne me for this fpeciality but any colourable pretext, z? em miki mayw Apollo. That the Gofpel precepts , Rjpftnot C'jill , Tarn yy.ir check, to the fmiier, Love your ene- mies &c. Have their holy and Chriftian ule of patience and godlinefs , for all manner of injuries from what- foriever hand ; And that thefe other commands of fubjeEiion, non~ refinance, honour, and obedience to Kjngs and dim Authority % have alfo their righteous influence of determining , in every occafion , ourduecompli- anceand fubmillion , without the leaft vefiige either in all or any of the places , o fin joining a lingular fub- jedion to Powers perlecuting for Religion > h obvi- oufly evident. What fpeciality you will gather from primitive practices , the gene, al miftakes that we find in their opinions , as we may underftand from ^Am- hrofe and Augujiine , condemning private defence even againft Rubbers > ne dam fain, era di/endit pkta- Um contaminet, may give us a fitisfying conjecture. From all which we mayafTurediy conclude, that femg Religion doth lay no ipeciail prohibition of refiftan- $e. , in order to Superiors , upon Subjects by them p^rfecuted • and that the above- written paftageof the Waldenfes doth at leaft evince, that in other cafes it hath the common privileJge, yourmferringor fpc- c'al confequencesfj in favours of the Powers, from ab.u fed gen era Us , is but a politick improving ofyour lies unto bafe and feliish flattery. Now AMwerect. . 423 Now as to other examples that may be found among the fValdenfss s Pray Sir, was this the only pailagein all thatHiftory, which you conceived did favour our caufe, or was you loth to follow them over the Alpes , unto the valleys of Piemonty to meet with inftances , which indeed you have realon to think can only be belt anfwered by concealing them , in the obicuruies of the places where aftjd? And really, this omitlion is fo grofly fupine , that you muft par- don me to think it defigned. However , the Hillory that 1 referre you to , for a full and particular account, a! well of the faith > ftedfattnefs and fimplicicy of thefe Wddtnfts in Vicmont , as or their many and great perfections by their own Rulers and Princes , and their jult a, id frequent oppositions made againft them, particularly from the year 1540 to the year i$6l. And how in the year 1571 they entered into a League of mutual afliltance , and horn that year did under- go many vicii'iitudes , fometimes of peace and quiet , then of crucll and barbarous perfections , wherein they teftiried g: eat conlhncy and patience , and fome- times of necelfary defenfive refinances , wherein they witnefled no lefs uprightnefTe and courage , even until the year r6s8 > wherein the narration terminates, is that of the Evangelical Churches in the valleys of P'umont , very faithfully and acuratly colte&ed and written by Mr Morimd , Where , I am confident , eveiy ingenuous perfon will finde the cafe of defence, for thecaufe of Religion > againft perfecuting Rulers, fo jiittly ftated , fo tenderly and fubmiifively proceed- ed into , and, laflly, fofinglyand moderatly profe- cuted ; and that not only once or twice, but often $ that as he will be thereby greatly confirmed in the righteoufnefs of this practice, fo he can not butoblerv e the inexcuiable omiilion of your filence. Dd4 The 424 The feventh Dialogue Xnenext inftance which you undertake to vindi- cate , is that of the Bonemians under Zifca , their, fighting and reftfiing when the chalice was denyed them. And for anfwere to this , you bid us confider , that the Cro vn. of Boheme ts elective -, in which cafe, certainly the States oj a isjngdom fliare more largely oftheSoveraign power. But I, You hereby plainly acknowledge that Religion is not mdefendible, except by meer fubje&s, agamit their Soveraign : So that again we fee , it is not from the caufe of Religion , but from the quality of the perfons , that you foolishly go about to exclude Religion from defence? which yet notwithstanding 3 in feveral excepted cafes , all inferior to that of perie- cution, istofubjeftsagainft their opprefling Princes by all almofi: allowed, 2. That the States of a King- dom share more largely of the foveraign Power, in an elective , then in a fucceflive Kingdom , hath no proper dependence upon the way of election , but is thereto meerly accidental} the Dictators in free Rome were elected , and that only occasionally , and tor a short fpace, and yet were uncontrollable: The Ro- man Empire, though elective, yet gave to the Em- perours abfolute Soveraignity : And, on the other hand, we fee many Kingdoms iucceffive , wherein neveiriielefs the Soveraignity is divided betwixt the King and the Eftates ; ibthat your ground doth not hold. As Grotias de jar. belli L i. c. 3. §. 1 i. in ex- plication of that diftinction , aliud efte de re nuenre aliud de modo habendi ■> doth fully cleare. 3 , Admit - tinj* the Crown of Boheme to be elective 5 which yet you know , in the competition betwixt Ferdinand and, Frederick^, was much controverted \ and that the Eftates do indeed share largely of the Soveraignity, And further , that tney were the Authors of this re- finance ? which alfo you cught to have alledged ', yec the Anfwered. 415 the opposition by them authorized upon the denying and wich holding of the Chalice , and undertaken upon the common and juft grounds or defence , considering the participation or power , which our Eftates , be- fore his IVlajefties reftitution did conftantly acclaim , and oftentimes by themfelves exercife, this fimilitude of the cafes doth only the more allimilate this inftance to that of our laft Reformation. 4. Although the Huf- fitu , being numerous in Bohem , and their provo- cation very injurious and intolerable , the fucceis of %ifca , their Chieftain , did in a little time draw the whole Eftates of the Kingdom to appeare on that fide; yet it is apparent from Hiftory, that the be- ginnings of thefe troubles were fo far from being au- thorized by the Eftates , that they were rather occa- (ional , and , as it were , tumultuary , upon the hin- dering of fome Huffites in the town of Prague to cele- bratthe Lords Supper with their accuftomed folem- nities, which the Huffites by force refilling-, it was from this fpark that the flame kindling, the party became to be headed by Zjfca; and he and they ad- vanced , breaking down Images, and diflipating Cloifters, until at length he contracted a juft Army, and ftrenuoufly flood to his defence, and thereby obtained the concurrence of the Eftates againft Stgif- mond then both Emperour, and upon Venceflaus his death, become King of Bohcme : Now whether this was not a clear refinance or the people , begun at leaft without the States , againft their Soveraign, upon the account of Religion, I remit it to yourlecond thoughts. But you fay , that Comeniusg/r« but ajkndtr cbd~ rafter of Zifca and his bufinefs , extolling bita chieflv as a good fouldier. And, I pray Sir, what would you h«ve him to fay more K befidethatitisnot Comenm Dd 5 his 426 The feventh Dialogue hib teftimony , but the pra&ice or the Bohemians , which upon your own appeal, we are concerned to notice. In the next place you tell us , That the Juflifurs of the late Bohemian wars never run upon this fir ain of fubjetts refifting their Soveraign , upon the account of Re- ligion , but upon the laws and liberties if that eleclive Kjngdom. I intreat you, Sir, to confider what you fay, That the injuries provoking to that war, were the inyafions made upon the Liberties of Religion, for- merly confirmed by Max imili 'anus and Riidolphus , is notour and manifeft : Now, if in this cafe they cid aggravate the wrong , not only from that liberty, which is every where due to cruth , but from thefe royal conceilions thereto fuperadaed , certainly this can make no difparity to our prejudice. But if you mean that thefe Refilkrs had not only law for them , as to the making out cf the wrongs which they filtered, but were in a legal capacity , as being the Statesof the Kingdom, to refift the invafions of their Prince , I have already told you how much this, if it were true, would make for and not againft us. 2. You mull; confider , that the oppofition, which gave the immediat occafion to the war 1618. and the war thereon enfuing, did proceed from, and was carried on only by zheB^eligioas Bohemicefocii Or- dines, and not bv the whole Ordhtes Regni , which were partim Pontificii , partim Religionis Bohemicce . So that the share , which the Eiiates of the Kingdom had of the Soveraignity , in this cafe , dotli not alfift you. I grant , tnat the Ordines B^ligionis Bohemicce , at firft prevailing , feem thereafter to have attained to the whole power, and fo to have proceeded to the election of Frederick^. But the lawfulnefs of his elec- tion is not now the point in queftiou. You Anfwered. 427 You add ? Neither were the Protejlants too well fatis- fied vith the laft Bohemian kifinejJe.And it is very hkea true the brisknefs or cue ririt aflault upontheKtng's Counfellers,witn other miscarriages in the progrefs of that bufinefie, mignc poillbly offend ; but can you thence infer, that either thele defenfive wars were not undertaken for Religion , or that on rhis account , the Proteftants did diflike them? As for what you fubjoin, Ye 1 /<.. Janes Jiotwithftaudingoj his interefl in the elec- ted KJngapas no tray cordial for it. He whodefires a crue accnuntof King Janus his deportme.it in this affair j> & howjcontrary to the inclination of all English Pro- trlhnts , the advice of his belt Councellers, and the earnefl folicitation of Archbishop Abbot, he ftrangely delayed to affift , and ia effect deierted both his Son in Law, and thecaufeot the proteflanc Re- ligion in that juncture , may rind;: it at length in Mr. fyfh worths colUElioi.s, But the truth is, his Ma jef- tie in that particular was fo poflefled and captivat by a defi^n, or rather an humor , that then overacted him toward a Spanish match , not only in prejudice and to the 1 nine of his own Daughter and Son in Law, his own and Englands honour and interefl , but contrary to his founder opinion in favors of the French protefc tants necellitate to a refi(tance,that if you had confut- ed the honour or his memory > you had in this mat- ter ch fjnto befileiit. Yourthirdinftance is adduced by your. N.C. In ihefe words , But vo.v know there was fighting in Ger- many upon the account of Bjl'gion , To which you anl'vvere , This fcottes how overly you read Riflory when voubrif gthis as a precedent. And truly Sir. I do con- ceive , that the moll overly reading may give fo full and inure fatisfaction, as to this point, that 1 excee- dingly long to hear3 how your more accurat peru- fal 42$ The feventh Dialogue fal will convel the evidence. You fay when Luther to ft the Duke of Saxon , moved of God , did receive the reformationpeaceablie into his principalities , (fe. And what then as to the matter of defence \ But you adde , that in the years. 1524. and 1525. There arofe a war in Germanic fomented by fome trouble fome Preachers , as faith tbe Hiftorian , who pretended the liberty of the Gof- pelfor their chief quarrel ; And this war of the Bjtfticks was again and again condemned by Luther as An execra- ble rebellion , nay opp-ofed and broitcn even by proteftant Princes. All the condudency of this paflageon your part, depends upon the fuppofition , that this war of the Rufticks , was by them necefiarily ingaged into, for defence of themfelves and the true Reli- gion , againft their perfecuting Adverfanes. Which though you be bold enough indirectly to inlinuate , yet all your confidence durit notpofitively afleri : But, that all men may fee your difingenuous dealing, in this allegeance , it will not be amifs that we take a more exaft account of it, inSliedan's own words, where we find in his fourth Boo^menft noz -embri, A nn. 1524. Ceperunt a fuo domino ComiteLuphio fuevo diflidere ho- mines ruflicani , propter oner a qiiibus gravari ft nimium querebantur , idem & alii deinde % icini fadebant in fuum quiffu Magifir&tum. Here you may perceive that the liberty oftheGofpel was not fo much as pretended to be the quarrel, let be the chief quarrel ', but that as oppreffion only and not Religion was the caufe which they held out, fo their too prompt and illegal refent- ment by way of violence , without the prelTure of an extreme neceflity, is that for which they are very juftly cenfured. The next mention we have of them is in the fame Book, the following year, Cujus vere primo per Sueviam , <$c. altera fuit exorta tempeftas Ordinis plebeii contra fiofdam proems Ecclefiafticos , jamqu c Anfwered. 429 jamquc jurejurando ac fide data foci extern coibantobduBa e.iufhquafi & Euangelii veritatem tueriydf fervitutem ab fe profUgarevellent* And the author adds, Magiftratus quidem cognofcere de qiuerimoniis ip forum , & quod ini- quum effet , emendarefe velle dicebat ; verwn illi perfe- verdant > & corum poflulata , mox aliis commuritcata> pajim novos incendebant motus. Which obftinacie and refufal was certainly unjuft. Now what thefe poflulata were , I need not repeate, in fo far as they did only demand the liberty of the Gofpel and the reliefe of their oppreflions > all men will judge them reafona- ble ; yea Luther , for all his vehemence againft them, Yet upon thefe confederations, doth not only ferioufly admonish and reprehend the Princes for their perfe- ction and tyranny , and tell them that , talis eft vefter dominitus , ut cum homines nee pofjint , nee vdint , nequt font debeant fern diutius , that thefe courfes > being fo plainly fe- ditlous, 43 o The fcventh Dialogue dicious > cannot be paralleled to the cafes of defence by us mentioned. But you fav , they were fomented by fome (editions Preachers, who pretended , the liberty oj '• the Gofpel for their cbeif 'quarrel ? Thus you love deceitfully to infi- nite where you cannot juiily accufe. But becaure that Thomas Muv.cer? quiring rirft the truth , and then his ftation , did , under that general far pretext , with lome others his aflbciates , heeding their own delations and dreams , and afpiring to enthufnfmes , become ringleaders ro a mutinous rable , for the rut- ting off, or all Magiftrats as wicked, and the def- troyingof propriety , Dare you thence infer, that the practices , which we defend , are of the fame na* ture , And that the Lords Minifters amongfl us were no better? Certainly your calumny not hardie e- nough to turn this oblique refieftion unto a direft ac- cufation , doth clearly enough evince its own fais- hood. But you add , that Luther wrote again <$ again unto them-) condemning what thevdid, as an execrable (J cur fid rebellion. It is anfwered , what Luther did write, firft in anfwere to their appeal and demands, more foberly, by way ofdiiTwafive , and then upon their eruption unto hoftility, more vehemently by way of incentive , to incite all , even private perfnns , by what fomever manner of way , to reprefs and kill them, is extant on record. And firing that I have already cleared , how widely the riffrtg of thefe Ru- ft'icks , doth differ from thedefenfive'rif'ftances by us afferted, lam very free, upon the matter, to fubferive to his judgment. But becaufe I confefs his reafoning doth proceed upon the fame grounds offub- jeclingtothe Magiftrate , not refitting of evill , and our Lords hindering of Peter to fight in his defence , which Anfwered. 45 1 which the men of your perfwafion do commonly ab- ufe, and are ifldeed handled by him in fuch a man- ner , as may f.em to give you an apparent advantage, Vow mult pardon me , tor this my ingenuity , to ufc afutable liberty, and tell you, firft, that although Luther, in his firft difcourfe doth make certain fup- poiicions , vi% , of the Magiftrat's being intolera- ble for perfecucion and opprellion , and that we fuf- fercd as atrocious injuries from him , as Peter and the reft of the A poftles did when our Lord was taken and led away from them ; and even in fuch cafes doth prohibite fighting; yet examine bis words, & you will tinde , that it is to reftrain from revenge , and not to prohibite, that he there ufeth thefe pafTages. As for example, after having laid , Sit Magiftrattx plane intolerahilK , he addeth , non tamen iicirco excu t audi mot ik : Nee enim aquslibet eft coercere maleficia <$c. And after having mentioned Chrifts comman- ding Peter to abftain from his defence , he fubjoyneth, gra-ji lata fententia in eos qui gladio; eriunt , hoc e '} , qui contempto Magi \\ratu "cindiElam privatam exercent: So thjt albeit his words after the ufual manner of dehor- tacives , do feem fome what tending to the contrary extreme-, yet his fcope being fairly adverted to, as the fureft rule of genuine interpretations, thev ought not to be extended beyond the condemning of impa- tient revenge. 2. I fay , that as all humane authori- ties are but acceflfory and not leading Arguments, And Luthers judgement in the matter of war, as in other things , was but progreifive , and not at firft thorowlyenlightncd; Soalthough he had been more pofitive againft us,at this time and upon this occafion, it ought not to ftumbleus; forasmuch as, in the firft years of his Reformation , from which this war of the Boures was not far removed , Slcidan tells us , that 432 Thefeventh Dialogue that he wrote not only that the Magiftratj was in no cafe to be refifted Lib. 8. But that to war againft the Turk^was to refift God ', who ufeth him as a fcourge to chaften us. Lib. 14.. Both which he afterward, in his own manner , did retract and qualify as you shall hear. 3. Albeit the Boures their wars, were unjuft , and feditious , as we have heard ; yet that Luther in his arguing againft them might , and did overftrain , befide the arguments already adduced , is eafie to be gathered from his exceflive vehemence , inhisfecond writing, wherein, forgetting his main principle of appropriating the fvvord of juftice and vengeance unto the Magiftrate , he inftigates even private perfons to take vengeance on them , and (if you will underftand it a right ) to turn Phineafrs in the cafe, and this SUidan fayes , ut nimis acrem et cru- cntummulti paffimvituperabant. The next thing you alledge anentthir wars , Is that the Proteftant Princes ftirred up by Luther, did fight againft the Boures and breakjhem. And why not ; ieing their rifing, fpecially that of Muncer , againft which thev took armes , was plainly feditious and rebellious * And thus we fee , how that by laying down of falfefuppofitions, you do only accumuht impertinencies.j But the beft advice that I can give you, is that which your confidence blindly offereth unto your N. C vi%. not to hearken to the tatles of ignorant perfons , but read the Hiftory itfelfe and there you may both underftand the truth , and the trueeftimat to be made of Luther* s Papers. In the next place you tell us, That upon the hrca- Jion and combination of the Duke of Brunfwick £T others againft the Lutherans , the Duke of Saxon the Lant^rave of Hefle,^ other Princes and free cities met at Smalcald to unite among themfehes : but Luther was diffatisfied until that from the Bulla aurea, and other conftitutions Anfwered. 4$$ oc t he Umpire , it was (hewed him , that it was lawjul J or them to defend themf elves Whereup on he con[enting> th e y entered into that famous league. To this you add , and every one l^tou'S , the princes of the Empyre are Sove- reigns within them (elves, And that the Emperouris only the head of the union. From all which, it Teems , you would infer , that though this be an inftance of in- feriour Princes ftanding to their own defence , upon the account of Religion , againft their Superiour ; yet it can not warrant people to refill their Soveraign ; But here let mereminde you firft , of your own un- dertaking} which wds to convince m of the falfliood of that vulgar error , that the Reformation was carried on or mantained by refinance t Now , whether this paflage ofthci,w^c.z/^/c^Ieag//edoth anfwere your defigne, or not , T appeal to your fecond thoughts : You pre- fentyourfelfe in the propofal , as if you were to prove , thct the Reformers were altogether for fuffe- ringj and not at all for refiftance according to the mifconftru&ions that you make of the practice of the primitive Chriftians ; And yet when you come to this inftance, all your offer is a politick confide- ration defaSlo> incident, which neither as to Gos- pel-rules, or antient precedents, by you commonly abufed>is of the leaft inoment,as I have already shew- ed. 2. Although the provocation , which you mention, to the Smalcaldick, League , vi%. the inva- fion & combination of the D. of Brxnfwhl^&c others againft their neighbour proteftants, do fignify noth- ing in your behalfe , but be altogether proper and agreeable to the nature of defence , which we do maintain *, yet , feing it is not fo confonant to truth . in matter of faft > and that the true and genuine rife and progrefs of that League do much more illuftrate E e our our aifertion , you muft give me leave to note your inadvertency , in afmuch as wc finde that the league o£ Smalcald was both propoied and entered into , long before the oppotition of Brunfwicl^ and the confede- racy ofNorimberg, whereby it was fortified. And as to the firft beginning of the league at Smalcald, we have kjin the year 1526. At Spire, where theD. of Saxon, and the Langrave calling theCommiiiioners of cer- tain Cities, tell them quoniam ipfis char am effevide- antEvangelii DoElrinam , ty ve ro quid Epifcopi molian- tur, atque pontificii nonjit obfcurum,deliberare fefe dicunt num qua foci etas at que fcedus iniripo(Jit , ut-> fi quern bu» jus caufa pmclhari contingat,mutua fubminijtrentur au- xilid <&c.- Thereafter when feveral Princes and Cities had firft protefted againft the fecondDecretumSpirenfe, and , by many meetings and other previous tranfaft i- ons, had prepared the thing, in the year 1530. thefe proteftants meet at Smalcald , at que foederis concipiunt formulam , non quidem offendendi quemquam , fed fui detendendi caufa , & huic conthmo Principes fubferip- ferunt , &c. Quodfcedus poslea Anno 1535. In an- nos decern r-.watur; whereas it was in the year 1538. and after uie Popish Princes and Bishops had leagu- ed together at Norimberg, againft the Proteftants, that we find Henricum Brunfwicenfem totum ad rum- pendum ocium publicum fpe&antem, <$ in hoc incum- bentem, ut belli fieret inhium adverfus Proteflantes . And it was in the year 1 542. that , Ob vexatas Gof- lariam O'Brunfwicum Smalcal. Foederis CivitatesSaxo Bernati- bus > CT Bafi'knfwus ror mutual defence in cafe of invafion for Religion , and that other , made the fol- lowing year, upon the fame grounds by the Lan. grave with the fame Cities > but 1 forbear to infiftoti examples fo obvious and frequent. As for what you fav of Luther s Di ff. it ijf action , un- til that Lawyers jhewed htm, how that , by the bulla au ea and other Conft'nutions of the Empyre , it was lawful for them to de end themfdves j That which I find in §ld* dan to this purpofeis, that Luther had ever taught that the Magiftrate was not to be refitted : but when in this deliberation, Lawyers did shew , that the lawes did fometimes permit refiftance \ and that now matters were ftated in o.ie of thefe excepted cafes, He ingemioufly profefleth, that he knew not this to be lawful. lAndbecatfethe Gofpel doth not impugneor abolifji poli- ticly lares , and alfo becaufe , m that fo doubtful and dangerous a time , many things might fall out , fo , that not only Law , but the very force and cijjity oj confeience , might make m take armes , He concluds , that a League for defence mi°ht be entered into. Now, whether this pafTage do more favour your defign , or our aflertion . is very difcernible , if we con(iJer,rirft,that there is no mention here of the bulla aur.a-> which though it do indeed contain the rights , liberties , priviledges and Dignities of the Princes and StatesoftheEmpvre;yet beareth no permifron of refiftance referable to this cafe. 1 . The laws here fpoken of fometime permitting refiftance, are, no doubt.no other then thefe ordinary exceptions found- edinthe law of nature, whereby the laws or fub- jection andfubmiilion , flowing from the inferior law E e z of 43 o * ne leventu uiaiogue of Nations, are by all Lawyers held, m iome cafes, to be reftri&ed. And though I grant ,* that many Ca- fuifts do require to thelawfulnefs of fubje&s their re- liftance , beiide the juftice of the caufe, the concurring of inferior Magiftrates ; yet that the fame grounds, with better confequence , do alfo allow to the people by themfelves (inferior Magiftrates either joining with the fupremeoppieflbr, or deferting their dutie) the right of defence, is the opinion of the more judicious. Nay , feing it is moft certain , as I have often touched , that there are certain atrocious in- juries, which do force, even from the moft rigid roya. lift , a particular exception in favors of (ingle perfons thereby attacqued , it is evident, that all this con- troverfie is more in hypothe/tthen in thefi. 3 . If it be remembred what were Luther's miftakes, in his youn- ger years, in the matters of war & refiftance, & with- all that beiide the information of Lawyers, he had a further and a moft important reflection upon the force and neceffity of confcience , in times of uncertainty and danger \ it muftof neceflky be acknowledged^ that this palTage is not meerly a politick difcovery , whereof before he was ignorant , but a mamfeft re- tractation of former miftakes. I have already hinted , how abfurdly the Scrip- tures , tor not refilling of evill , and for fubje&ion to Powers, are abufed, by Court • flatterers, to a fpecial prohibition of all refiftance from Chriftians perfecu- ted , for confcience fake , againft their opprelling Princes, Only forfooth , becaufe their unconcerned- nefs in Religion , doth fufficiently fecure them from the confequence; whereas it is clear as the Sun - light, that the fame Scripture-rules do make no diftinction , from what cauie , let be from what perfon, the in* ;"urie doth defcend j but equally and indefinitly enjoyn patience Anfwere.d 437 patience and fubmiliion , m their exigence and feafoip without che leaft pre;udice to thefe other rules of righ- teoufnefs , whereby , afwell in the cafe of peifecu- tion for Religion, as of injurious invafions upon other accounts, cheperlons invaded? when in an other- wife unreftrain.d capacity , are warranted to refiftance in their own defence. And for this , it rnayfuffice> though there were no more , that Luther tells us , i hat he evei taught , that the Gofpel doth not impugne or abolifli foliticl^ laws , much leis then the fundamental laws of nature, to which all politick laws do cede. But what he further addes , of a force and neceffity of confeknee , thereby joyning the obligation to the right of defenfive refiftance , is certainly a ground , which if it were here pertinent, I could improve to more then I have hitherto aflerted. But you fay > that every one knowes , that the Prin- ces are Soveraigns w'tthin themfehes , and the Emperour is only the head of the union. How doth this blinde Con- fident medle without underftanding. That the confti- tutionof the Empyre is purely feudal, the Empe- rour Liege -lord, and all the Princes feudataircs recog- nofcing him, and fubjecttr* the imperial Chamber, where they have been often doomed and forfaulted Is a thing moft obvious. What do you then bable of united Soverraigns , and Soveraigns within themfehes > By which dialect of difcourfe, and a fair defcent a Majoriad Minm, you or any other private perfon may quo adhis referved rights and liberties, be termed a Soveraigne within himfelf : We know , that by con- celfion they have large priviledges , and that mosl of the regalia appertain to them, but are they therefore Soveraigne se. Oris the Emperour only the head of the union i Befide, how will you make thir things quadrat to the Hanfe- to wnes and free Cities, who Ee 3 certainly, 43 s The feventh Dialogue certainly > for all their immunities and ^nviledges > are immediatly , and direcflyfubjeft to the Emperour, and yet have often ingaged in thefe defenfive leagues and wars againft him. Thus 1 anfwere you? in your folly. But , pray Sir , do you think , that ever our Lord commanded , or the Gofpel meant , that , though the poor people may not derend themfelves? when perfecute for Religion \ yet great men their fuperiors, though fubject to the Supreme , may £ Or, if you be more rational, can you imagine, that an oppreffed people upon any account , with the con- curfeof inferior rulers may defenflvely refiff their So- veraign , to whom all are fubjeft > and that the fame people, no more , but rather lefs fuhje& to thefe infe- rior,then all are to the Supreme >may not as lawfully, upon the like provocation , defend themfelves againft both the Supreme & In terror joyninginanoppreifive combination? Specially, feing it is moft certain that, as the Supreme hath ail his power from the peoples fuffrage and confent^ ib, the Inferior doth wholly and precariously for the moft part , fubfift by his grant. But I proceed , you fay , As for the war that after- wards followed bawixt Charles the 5 tb, & the Duke of Saxe 5 befides that the Duke was free to defend himfelfe , & I have told, Ciur\zs the 5 th. declared it was not for Re- ligion he fought. 'Tis aniwered, for the freedom of. the Duke of Saxe , that it w*s no greater in this cafe > then the people may acclaime in the like , as alfo ? that if the Duke of Saxe his war was lawful 5 upon the account oi injuries , for other caufes then that of of Religion, Religion doth only aggravat, and not alter the cafe} 1 have already cleared. But what a pitiful allegeance is this , that Charles the fift for- footh declared it was not for Religion he fought i Whereas firft by the league betwixt him and the Pope, Anfwered. 4*9 Pope, it is expreflely converged, That wherefore many years Germany had continued in great errors , fo; which the Councel of Trent was called and j'et down, And that thefe of the bmalcald confederacy -Ad re jeB the fameithere- fore the Pope and Ccefar,for the Glory of God and fafety of that People , have tranfatled, that Csefar levy an army againji Jam next , and by force of armes reduce t heft B^ef lifers of the Council, and Defenders of errors , into the old {{elision and obedience of the holy See, 2. The Duke of Saxe and the Langrave writ to him to diff.vade him , doling) that when ever they fl)ould underftand his pre- tended caufes for that war, they would fo anfwere , ut quivis intellig^t , &mjuriam nobis fieri , ty tc B^omani Anticbrijli ac impii Qoncil'i Tndentini impidfu helium hoc fufcipere , ut O Euan^elii DoBrina & Germanise libertas opprimatur , nee ullam aliam jubtfit confab* docebimus. 3. They at the fame time, emit a publick vindication ior themfelves , proving by unanfvve- rable arguments that Religion was the only cauleof that war. And should not ycu be ashamed , to obtrude to us Ccefars groundlefs and calumnious aflertion , againft both the Princes their declaration and reaibns? 4. The very letters written by Ctfar to the Argcnti~ nenfes and other Proteftant Cities, wherein? accufing the Princes of Rebellion and OpprefHon , under the pretext of Religion, he really maketh out nothing, together with their anfwer , wherein all his preten- fions are taken off; nay Sleidans whole fevententh Book, containing the Pop's Bull , his letters to the HdvctiiyXht diftintt rerurn^s made toCxfir's demands by the Proteftant and Popish Cantons , with many other letters and declarations, is but one evidence, and that irrefragable , againft you. What impudence is this then whereinto you are hardened? Ee 4 But 44-o The feventh Dialogue But the Ele&ors o/Cullen am-d the Paiacine both Pro- teftants lay neuters. And what then f. Do we not know how rare a things it is , in a time of danger, for all concerned to unite even in the moft incontroverted duties i Befide , the Elector of Cullen was then re- cently depofed and excommunicate , and hts people ( fpecially his principal Clergie ) and he at great va- riance? for the Reformation by him intended. And the Palatine inclining to favoure , & in efreft aiding the Princes with 400. horfe , was by the evil fuc- cefs of the war forced to retreat and excufe him- idk. Next you adde , That the EleEtor o/Brandenburg and Maurice of Saxe armed \or the Eynperour. And 1 grant, That Albertus & Joannes Brandenburgici quanquam erant religions , <3" Joannes quidem etiam feeders Proteslantium , tamen quod Caefar, non propter B^\igionem-> fed qucrundam rebellions ulcifcendce caufa , helium fuc ft pi diceret , fuam ill: operant addixifie. But as (heir refting upon Qon in law to Henrie of Brunfwich^y then detained cap- tive by the Langrave , feemes to have been his great motive. However it is certain , that the Elector of Brandenburg, for whom it is like, that, in your heedlefsway, you take one of his above mentioned Brothers, did Hand off neuter , endeavouring rather to mediate , as the Hiliory teftifies , and we may fee by his interpofing betwixt the Ele&or of Saxe and Maurice , at the feige of Lipfick. As for Maurice , his part , it was indeed foulelt , and defervedly con- demned by all equal Judges, But feeing you can ad- duce Anfwered. 441 duce no other argumeuts for your pretended vindica- tion, then undeniable wrong and perfidy , the truth and righteoulhefs of that defensive war , on the Prin- ces their part , againft the Emperour needeth not my further patrociny. And yet , As if you had faid fomething to purpofe , you have the boldnefs to con- clude in chefc words, So you may fee what phi ul Hiyio- t'uins they are who a/ledge the precedent of Germany. O ox durum ! Who would not Laugh at fuch exceilive confidence 5 above the excufe of all poiiible igno- rance ? The fourth inftance which you go about to cleare> is that or Sweden , and you fay , That KJng Guftavus> with the States of that fijngdome > did in the Year 1 524. peaceably receive the B^jormation , and who would not wish that Religion and Reformation might have had the fame fate every where 5 Neither were there any broils about it , till after Jeventy years, that Sigifmond Kj»g o/Poiland, the Son of their former King-, and therefore by them acknowledged, though aPapijl, was by force entering the KJngdome > refolvmg to root out the Protej] ant Religion : Whereupon they depofed him ; no firangc thing in the Sweedifo Hijlory , that being before an Elective Crovn, and butnewlv then become hereditary, and the States fli'l retaining the fupreme Authority ♦ Sir , I muftconfeis , that this is a pallage, whereunto I can make no reply ; your undertaking was to con- vince us, by undeniable evidence of Hiilory, of the falshood of that vulgar error , That the Reformation was carried on ( that is maintained as, I have before shewed ) by refinance • and here you give us anin- itance of a Kmgdome , nor only refilling , but depos- ing their King , becaufe of his invading of Religion : Which , in place of a vindication , is a full and plain conceilion ; For , as to what you infinuace , that that Ee 5 Crown 442 The fcvcnth Dialogue Crown had been a little berore Elective , I told you, upon the mftance oi Bohem-e , that though it had been even for the time Eiecf ive , yet it couid not make for you > much leis when you acknowledge that then (for? as for your own or the Printers efcape, reiernng the change to the Year 1644. I urge it not) it was become iucceilive* Andwh.re youaliedge, that the States did ftill retain the Supreme Authority? if you underftand it otherwayes then according to that power and priviledge which appertains to our Parlia- ments , it is only your own ri&ion. But you fub. joyne that , If this (erve not to vindicat the Sweds , atleaft, the Reformation was not introduced by wars among them. And pray Sir, who of us did ever derend fuch a pra&ice i To introduce , and to main- tain, are things, fo different, that they can not be fairly confounded.The laft shift you make is,That the anions of that fiate were never looked upon at a precedent to others ; But, if fo, why then do you mention them, and if they be indeed a precedent , certainly it is hard to determine, whether you be more falle in your general aflfertion anent the eftablishing of the Refor- mation, or ridiculous in this part of your vindi- cation 4 The rift inftance you mention , is , That Denmark received the Reformation peaceably . But feing this hypothefe excluds the queftion controverted , anent the maintenance of Religion by armes , not cafible without the antecedent violence, It is evident, that it is rather tranfientiy then pertinently by you ad- duced ♦ The fat inftance is tabled by your N. C. thus , But you cannot dem there was force ufed in Helvetia and Geneve. And to this you anfwere both in the manner and termes of your accuftomed vanity , That this fiietvcs Anfwcred. 443 fhetpesy what a fuferficial Ky iderof Hiflorv vour N, C. is. And then you tell us , T m Zu. xn received the i it broke out into a ci/n tr.ir . fvrtiydetenfivt wt^nZu- tichespirt , Likeasthc Cantons a>-e not \ub) H to one another, but free States onh united in a League. It is anfwered , that here , upon the account Oi Kcligion> there was force ufed in Helvetidis clear from you. own narration. How then do you taxeyour K. C. for this allegeance , at a fuperficial Reader of Rifton i As for that, that it was ufed byoneaiTociatagainft another ? and not by fubjects againft their fupe- rior , it is only accidental from the condition of thefe Cantons, & the other circumftanccsot that war. And feing , that neither the Gof pel , nor Reafoii;, dolavanvfpecial reftraint upon fubjc&s, in cafe of their Superiors intolerable perfecution becaufe of Religion, as I have already shewed, this precedent is no fmall confirmation of the practices bv us main- tained. 2. I mult tell you further, that this war, on Z^uriches part , was not fo purely defenfive, as you give it out, in afmuch as it is certain from Slei- dan. 4. and 8. Books , that the provoking injuries were, for the m oft part, committedupon their citi zens without their territories , and the firft aft of hoftility, by theinterclufion of palTaecs , was done by thefe of T^irkh , fo that, although their guards were indeed iurprifed ; yet dating the war from the hoftile intercluGon , it appears rather to have been aflertive then purely defenfive. J. The advantage, which this example doth give us > is the moreobier- vable , from that preface th.v make to their expostu- lation, emitted to their confederals in thefe words* Cbrifttu > inquiunty unam ferimi maxillam jubet alte- ram 444 The feventh Dialogue ram quoque preberi feriendam , banc eius do&rinam fe- quuti , mult a profe&o toleravimus & patient er quidem : Nunc autem quando nullus eft injuri arum finis > aut mo- dm , cogimurad Mud confugere quod Chriftus ufurpavit, Cj ft male quid egiwus, doceri petimus illui atque de- monftrari, &c. Wnereby understanding the patience; which our Lord enjoynes , according to its juft f exi- gence and meafure , and, by a very exad and L and obfervation , holding out how in a continued traft of injuries the duty or patience may at length ceafe, and the liberty of defence chen take place, they plainly reject thefe abufive inferences of abfolute fubjection » or rather ftupidity, in the caufe of Religion , which men , allured by their indifFe-encie in thefe matters againft the temptation and hazard , would thence in- ferre. 4. When you remembred the practice of the Suiters y in the point of Reformation , how came you to forgett Bajile, Where you may rinde (Sleid. 1. 6) that after the Reformation was in a manner efta- blished) thePapifts neverthelefs did profecute their own defigne , until the citizens thereby provoked, af- femble and fupplicate the Senate , that certain of their number, countenancers of the popish preachers, might be removed; Which being re fufed , they make an other Aflembly and Supplication & quamvisfine armis, , nontamen tarn demijft quam antea> where- upon the Senate returning a fecond difpleafing anfwere, and the people being more offended , becaufe of the apprehended ufurpation of a few , they openly de- clare that they would take a courfe , not for Religion ("jq. fimply and only ) but for the vindication of their own right: And fo they inftantly take armes, And the fame day, oneofthemcafting down a cer- tain ftatue , they fuddenly take theoccafion to throw down all the idolls and ftatues within the city making anfwere Anfwered. 445 anfwere to fuch, who came horn the S nate to com- pofe the m atter , t hat what the St nate had ban adiifing upon , for three years , the\> would perfeEl in one hour , that idols might no more Ic the caufe oj contention ♦ Upon which the Senate grants trum all their de- fire j removing the iufpt&ed Senators , abolish- ing the Mefle , and iettlmg the reformed Reli- gicn In which paflage, fubje&s their maintain- ing and a(Teitii:g oi the Reioiniation by armes, a- gainft«;their Superiors, is io evident, that it is ve- ry eafie to conje&uie the reaion of your filence and omiilion. It is true the people do mention the vindication of their right, and not religion, as the immediate caufe of their takng armes : But feing their meaning is plain enough , that their juft de- mands in behalf of Religion were in fuch a man- ner refufed, as not only their con mon right , but their fpecialpriviledges were injured ; and feirg, in the progrels , the caufe oi Religion was by them moil dire&ly intended and purfued , it is manifeft above exception , that , as it was theoccafion , fothe Re- formation of Religion , was the principal motive and end of all this ftir. As for Geneve , you fay j the Bi(hop fled from it out of a patmkl^ fear > when the Reformation was reah- ed. And 'tis true the Hiftory iayes, that upon the ^change, Epifcopus atque Citrus irati difcefftmr.t aburbe, But is it then pertinent for \ou to obferve , that no force was ufed where there was no provocation, Buc youfubjoine, that Geneve was a free Town, neither fubjeft to the Bifiop, nor the duke o/Savoy. And no doubt you give this caveat ior that war , which , you know, was made againft them, in the year 1534. By the duke ofSaioy , admtus ab ejus urbis Epifcopo, vel potius mjligatus partim obEvangelii pro4eflionem > parUmaliis dc 446 The feventh Dialogue de caufis. But , feing although Geneve was a free Town yet it had a confiderable dependence upon the Bishop? and though it had not, ycttheinftanceis no left concludent for us , then that of the war of Zurich, I will not infift in any longer replv. The feventh inftance , you alfo adduce by your N.C. Queftioning what you fay to the war in the Ne- therlands. To which you anfwere* that voufay pill thev L'ou%ht not for Religion ; And that thev fought not for Religion , that is , to propagate it by Armes you are in the right : But that perfecution for Religion , carried on by the making of new Bis- hops, the Inquifition* and bloody Edifts , was the principal caufe of all thefe wars , Hiftorians on both fides, {uchasBent?:woVo, Strada-, Grotius , Grim- ftoun and his Authours dofo fully atteft , that your confidence is to mead H-able. But you fay, Papi-s and Protectants did jotml] oortcurr in it. It is anfwered, I. That thecaufe of thefe wars being complexe , the Spaniard endeavouring no lefs to fubvert the liberties of thefe Provinces, then to extirpate the Reformed Religion , it is nothing ftrange , that there should have been a joint concurrence iu the oppofition. Specially feing, 2. even the perfecution at that time , pra&ifed upon the Proteftants in thefe Coun- tries by the Spaniards ftrangers , was fo tyrannous, ragefull and pernicious, that many of their Com- patriots, thouoh otherwife not of their Religion, were yet induced to favoure their caufe. But ;. As it was the fpreading of the Reformed Religion in thefe parts , that fir ft gave the Spaniard occalion to exercife tyrannv , and , by violating and fubverting their Liberties , todefigne an uniforme royalty over all his Dominions; So it is unquestionable, that Re- ligion and the cruelty p.ra&ifed upon its Profetfors , were Anfwered. 447 were the original! and principal caufeof that war as the Apology, let out by the Proteftants , after their firft dereatan the end ot theRegency or ' Margaret, doth fully witnefs. And here I might tell youot the joynt fupplications and confederacies made about that time by thefe of that Religion for their own preferva- tion , and alfo the conceilions made to them in that behalf; But the Hiftory is fo large in rhis matter , that it were fupetfluous in this place to be more parti- cular: And therefore I fay 4, That although in the beginning, the mixed defigne of the extirpation of Religion mainly intended, and of the erecting of an uniforme Monarchy aflumed through the occafion thereof, carrying along amaniieft and mod injuri- ous violation oi ail rights , liberties and priviledges, didatriift ingagt: even Papifts in the refiftance$ yet it is molt certain, that the principal caufeof the war > w'3 , Religion , more and more prevailing 3 of the Flamings them feives there were few, fave Proteftants, that took part on the defensive fide. And as for the Trench or others , who joyned afterwards upon a clear ground of intereft , it belongeth not unto the prefenc confederation. Youadde , that Egmond & Horn beheaded , bv the D of Alve, as the chief inftruments in it , died both Pa - pijh. 'Tis anfwered, Egmond and Horn plainly accufed of having joined to the confederats againft the inquili- tion,&for remifnefs in the maintenance of the Romish Religion, were very early cut off, even in the firft fer- menting, as it were of thefe tumults, before the enfu- ingwarwas formed; but, however, certain it is, that although they prorefled and pra&ifed mainly for the liberty of their Countrey againft tyranny, yet they greatly favoured the perfecute proteftants, and alfo much inclined to cheir way, as is clear from their very ac- 448 The feventh Dialogue accufation , and alio from the manner of their death , fpecially Horn's , who , for all Grotius his faying, that they were execute , poft facraromano rhuperaEta-y yet , at firft refufed to confef. to the Bishop of YPre , faving that he had confefTed himfelfe unto God. What then doth this allegeance, deftitute of reafon and little favoured by truth , avail you I Your next argument is, that the States by a Placaet declared it fcandalous , to fav they fought for Religion. Sir, I Wish you had given us the words, at leaftthe date of that Placaet: For, fure I am, that in what termes foever, the Eftates in policie might think lit to declare and publish the caufe of thefe wars, and to aifigne for the fame rather the invafion of liberties and privil .dges, which was the efreft of the Spanifc perfe- ction, then Religion , which was the more remote caufe; yet whoever reflects upon their firft beginnings will finde that it was after this manner. The Ylamings receiving the light of the Gofpel , & being therefore fore vexed by long and cruel perfecutions , the fame upon the fucceflion of Philip to his Father Charles, are by theSpainards much intended,and a refolution being taken, to root out the Proteftants, new Bishops are created , the Spanish Inquifitionis threatned, and many terrible edicts emitted , by which courfes , not only in themfelves wicked j butalfo contrary to the priviledges, and deftructive of the liberties of that, people, many tumults and confufions were in all parts occafioned, untill at length the Nobles do confede- rate for refinance, and mutual affiftance and relief; in confequence whereof, they petition the Regent , and applications are made to the King , when in the meane time, on a fuddain , thefe of the Religion feeing no fuccefs that way , keep their meetings and afTemblies openly , afluming armes for their own de- fence fence aggainft fuddain violence , and by the meaner fort of the people j images and idols are as with a whirl-winde (quales olim fcepe motus ludeorum erant which is Grotius his remark) thrown down almoft in all places. Thefe things make the Regent moie eafie towards the Proteftants, and force her to remit by- gonsj and indulge their Preachers: but the Lords retearing to their refpettive charges , for rendering the conceifions effectual , and being terrified by the reports of the King's implacable difpleafure, betake themfelves to divided Councels , whereupon the Re- gent refiles from the agreement , renewes the perfec- tion , levies new forces , impofeth new oaths , and the Spainards , fuppofing the whole people one way or other to have been involved in the late tumults > conceive them , asguiltieof rebellion , to have for- faulted their former liberties , and to be become ob- noxious to an abfolute domination* This being the condition of matters when the Duke d'Alva was na- med to the government , the Prince of OrangeSc Bn~ derodc , both Proteftants , retire. Brederod his forces of the fame Religion refift and are beaten , and many shift for themfelves : then the Duke arriving fills all places in a moment with tyrannv and perfecution ? put- ting to death many Lords and Gentlemen , and many thoufands befide ,becaufe of the former confederacie, and upon the account of their Religion : And the Prince of Orange, being cited and not compearing, his Eftate and Lands ar feifed on , and thereafter tak- king armes by the perfwafion of the banished , and declaring to the world both the injuries done unto him, and that he was of the Religion, he is once and again beaten; fo that there remained no oppo- fition to the Dul^s rage & violence', fave what was made by a few , efcaped from the former defeats gi- Ff ven 4^0 The fevcnth Dialogue Ven totheProteitani:>, wno made war m the Princes name, partly by pirate at iea ? and partly from woods and forefts, againft Piiefts only and Offi- cers orjuftice. In this deplorable eftate , under moft infolent tyrannic and violent perfecution , thefepoor Countries remain, untill the Earl vander Marks with his Proteftants or fea Gueux > as they were then called > furpnfeth the Town ot Breill, after which Flufingmd feveral other townes in Zealand and HoU land > refufe fpanish garifons , and being Proteftants revolt to the Prince of Orange, who having implored the aid of all Proceftant Princes , after a fucceflefs enterprife for the fuccour of his Brother Ludozicj^ at Mons , and a proclamation emitted , declaring the caufe of his ingagement to be for relief of thefeCoun- treys form Alvas tyranny , and from the crueitieand oppreflion of his proclamations , edicts , taxes , and impofts, cometh unto Holland, fr,om which time the war for Religion and liberty, proceedeth thorow many and various accidents 3 and both are in all pla- ces equally reftored. This is the plain and true and ac- count of the rife of thefe wars, at which period, even Grotim > who, of all the writters of that Hiftory , doth moft decline and wave the caufe of Religion as an ingredient in the quarrel , noteth , J^eligionis caufa primi talibus captis [ociaverant Smalcaldicofadere Ger- man! , poji quos Galli proceres plurimjs etiam Scriptts differuerant nonpeccare> inftu obfequii minores potejiatei qui invito qudmvx pr'mcipe dhina ac publica jura , vim tarn que innocentiym, Jinecejfe foret, armis dtfenderenty O'er. And a little after , romance ceremonice ejeEla? tern- pits , £Tc. Whether or not then perfecution for Re- ligion appears to have been the caufe of thefe wars , let all impartial men judge. - But -nniwerea. 451 But you tell us , that the true ground of the quarrel , as we may read in all the Hijlories , was that thtir Prince was not an abjolute Soieraign , but limited in hit power and that by exprejfe compact > they might ufe jorce if he tranfgrejfed hjs limits , as he no- torioufly did. Sir, for the true and proper ground of the war I have alreadie clearly narrated ic, from the beft Hiftorians ; that which you point at here, is rather a juftification of their^efiftance from the right and capacity whereunto their Prince was afc tri&ed. But i . You cannot deny that persecution fof Religion, whereby they were injured both in their fpecial priviledges , and common and natural rights and liberties , was the provoking caufe of thefe wars; and confequently that Religion no more then other interefts , doth not forbid to lubjeds neceiTary de- fence and refiftance againft their Superiors. 2. For all the vaine talke that you and your fellowes make a- gainft us for allowing to the people a difcretive judge- ment, anent their princes actings , yet you not or-ly fuppofe and approve it 3 in thefe of the Netherlands-, in order to their Prince , but flick not to vent your aime, in faying that the King did moft notorioufly and tyrannically pafs his limits. $. Though we should urge this inftance no further then you allow it; yeritftil remainesa very agreeable precedent for juf- tifving our late courfes , it being certain , that not only the rights and priviledges of both Kingdomes were violate, but that the undoubted priviledges of Parliament, and the remitted nature of the Kings fo- veraignity over us , did give us as good and fufficient awarrand for the oppofirions then made, as uron this head can be alledged and inftru&ed by thefe of the Netherlands. And really, when I reflect upon the par- ticular cafe of the lace warres betwixt the King and F fz >ar- 452 The feventh Dialogue Parliament, and ho wtnat in rhe Papers printed by confentof both , for clearing the controverfie , there appeareth nothing , fave the pretentions and pleas of prerogative and priviledge, and yet all do acknow- ledge Keligion co have been the original caufe ,1 think this fole oxiiidcration might have made you to for- bear this poor vindication. It is tme,Grotius iayes,and feems to lay much weight Upon it , quod Brahanti Mud quoque proprium pacifci foUnt , ut , pr'mcipelegesviolante , ipfifidei & obfequii vinculo liberantur donee demanturinjurne* But not to draw you to long difcourfes , anent the effeft of an irritant proviiion adjected to a mutual contract. i,It were no great difficulty to shew you from undeniable reafon, nay from Grotius himfelte, in his de lur. Bell. that as there is fuch a connexion in all contra&s, that the failzeer of the one party doch in fo far liberat the other from his mutual & conefponding ingagement , andrepone him to his antecedent condition and li- berty; fo in the prefentcafe, anirriiant proviiion , though , in other cafes , it may fometimes extend its vertue and influence beyond the intrinfeck import of thefailzie wherby it is committed), appears not to have any ipecial ufe , but only to ferve > ad majorem , quia exprefjiorem cautelam. Z* It might here be fufiicient tomakethatanfwereforus , which Grotius a little, after in the fame place makes for the other Provinces, vi%, ab aliis quoque Belgarum nationilus idem jus moribus ufurpatum ; which may be verefied as to Scotland and England , by many molt pregnant and luculent exam pies. But..;. As I grant that a refervation ofthefe things, which otherwfe would be imported in the peoples furrender,& appertain to theSoveraign, fortified or not fortilied, by an irritant provifiommay give to the people when therein wronged , the li- berty Anfwered. 453 berty of aflerting their ov\n right, which without a fpecial refervation had been none; To undoubtedly, as to fuch rights, which do refer vc themfeives, and are fo much ours , that even oy an exprefs furren- der, they cannot be abfolutely refigned (fuch as the right or Religion , our lives and wnole foi tunes are , the prefervation whereof , being the very ends oi -'go, vernment, cannotbeunderftoodto be permitted to the Govcrnour's ablolute arbi.rement ) the people therein invaded > by vertue of the power inherent to rights referved and the liberation , flowing rrom all fuch railzeours, tnough not expieffed , may very juft- ly refill , and demand reparation. And , is it indeed poilible , that any rational man should think , becauie of a refervation of things of ieis vaiue, and therefore within our power, apnncc iranfgreilirig may law- fully be refitted, and that never theleis thefe high and atrocious invasions , in matters or the greateft vaiue > and which therefore can neither be abfoiucely mrren- dered , nor do need an exprefs relervation , snould and ought to be Itupidly fwalio w^d do ivitf But feing the gaateft Royalilts do , in certain fuppofitions* wherein their own feme and intereft do give them a better underftanding, notftickoothto acknowledge andpractife, according to this principle, it is very evident , as I have often faid , that it is only their in- difFercncy in matters of Religion, and the fecuiity that they thence derive, which makes them and us to differ on this fubject. In the clofe of this tnftance , you tell us , Tim joy all this, you refer us to Grotius. And for matter of fact, I decline him not, as you may perceive, but ifhistoomauifeft prejudice in matters of Religion, do make him lefs exprefs to our purpofe , I hope the fupplement of other Authors, and alio of folid reafon , F f 3 shall 4^4 The feventh Dialogue snail obtain from you&al men a jult acknowledgment. The 8th inftance that you would vindicate, is that of the Civil warrs of France , and firft you fay , Their fir ft civil wars ? were managed by the Princes of the bloody who by the laws of that Crown are nop ordinary fttbj efts . And certainly by all law and common fenfe , extraor- dinary perfons may well be laid not to be ordinary fubje&s j but are they therefore not fubjects.? Suiely the conferring of high dignities and great Authority , may well intend their obligation, it doth not alter their condition. And how often have we heard and feen them accufed and forfeited for rebellion f Why do you then render your felfe ridiculous by iuch a pi- tiful alledgeance ? But you add , bcjides , the wars were begun in .the minority of the KJng. And do you feriouily think, that (fetting afide the greater incapacity it might have put them imo ) had the King been major , they would have been of anothtr minde i But you fay , that , in this cafe , the power of the Princes m greater ; And we have indeed often heard, that the dignity of the Princes doth confift mainly in two j vi%. their right of fuccellion , and privilege of Regencie, during the Kings minority or abfence : but as j in the matter of Regencie, the neareft, and not all the cgnati oii\\e royal blood can pretend to it , and that only in the cafe of no nomination made by the preceeding King, and during che Ipace of the young King's pupillarity, juft according to the com- mon i ules of tutela legitima ; foyou may remember , that the wars, we fpeak of, falling out in the reigne of Francis the Second, being for the time, at leaft, fixteen years of age , there was no place for the Prin- ces th lr pretence of Regencie : befide the firft appea- rance of thefe wars was only fuppofed to be courne- nanced> Aniwered. 455 nanced>but not openly by them o wned. And as foi cfife continuation of the war , in the non-age of Charhs the Nynth , it is certaine, that the King of Navarre > to whom , as neareft agnat , the Regencie belonged, did voluntarily renounce his pretention, in favours of the Queen mother , nay that he joined with her & the Gwfians , and died righting againft the Proceitants headed by Conde and the ^Admiral. And" likewife, thefe wars were againe renewed in the King his Ma- jority • But, not to enter further into thefe ihads of tumults, and confufions , occafioned by the reftles pertidie and unfaciable cruelty of the adverfaries> though I should admit , that thefe wars were not only incited and provoked to by perfecution , but thatalfo, even on the Proteftants their fide , they were not a little influenced both by particular inte- refts and paliions , and the general fervor of thatN a- tion f Which in effect is the very worft account that even the enemies of the truth do give of them, and cannot be received by any impartial inquirer ) Yet, fcing it is molt evident, that perfecution for Religi- on was the true caufe moving the body of the Protec- tants to their own defence , and that their Minifters , and Teachers , whom God had honoured to be in - ftrumentalin their conversion > as Bi^a and others, did countenance thefe wars, andconftantly maintain, that a defenfive refiftance to fubjects in a due capacity, was no moreprohibite, u£dn the account of perfe- cution for Religion , then in the cafe of any other in- tolerable oppreilion. The mixture of mans corrup- tion (mfeparable even from his beft actions) in the profecution of lo good a caufe, cm neither prejudge itsjultice, nor deprive us of the advantage of this precedent, But knowing your former anfwers to be weake and F i 4 un- 456 The feventh Dialogue uiiiatisfying , you fubjoyne , that you do not deny their following wars to have been dirtEl }{ekllion. And is this the vindication you piomifed? Only 5 you bid us, confide r the fierce Spirit of that Nation, a/.d we mujl co)tjcfs it was not i\tl>gion , but their temper that was to be blamed. Well $ir, is this your candor C The queftion is, whether or notReligion was thecaufe of thefe wars, which 5 if the lawfulnefs thereof were not firft fuppof- ed, were utterly impertinent ; and you not darring to deny it , dorirft tell us by a blunt petitio principii 3 that the wars were rebellion , and then , that the French temper mon then Religion is to be therefore, blamed^ Wno should regard fuch a pitiful Sophifter? But, feing it can net be denyed that the many and great in - juries , fufTercd upon the account of Religion 3 were the juft provocation to thefe wars , although fome fmill cenfure either of precipitancy, or of excefs in the proiecution may poilibly be imputed to the hote temper of that people , or excufed by the fignal info- lencie of ther provocations ; yet , fure I am , that neither thecaufe of Religion , nor the juftice of ita is thereby intheleaftdiiproven. But now you fay , many if the eminent men of that Church are fully convinced of the evill oj thefe courfes , jea one oj- the glvrits of our Nation Cameron , in the wars of thelaftKJhg, directly preached againfl their courfes as Rebellion. 1 will not anfwere , that poilibly it hath be- fallen the eminent men of that Church? as it did many of our own , who , as they were removed , from the firft times of the Reformation, & the then oppofition ofadverfaries,& from the evidence of the Lord's Spi- rit & prefencethat therein appeared -3 fo according to the influence of after temptations , were induced to condemne that, which otherw ife they would have ap- proyen. It is enough for us3 that your many eminent, who- Anfwered. 4.57 whoever they be, aremoie then overbalanced by many more and more eminent ftill abyding on our fide. And for Cameron^ whom , forlooth , in your pedantick ltile , you more then cannonize, by term ing a Glon , you muft pardon us , who know him better, whatever be hi^ opinion in this matter? nor co be dazled by his fplendour , fpecial'ly ieing you know, th it , it we were dupoied to vie with you in fuch va- nities , we might by adducing King James his juiii. fymgofthe French Pro teftants their defensive wars, in his anfwer to cardinal Perron , eclipfe this your glo- ry into obfcunty : but what need of .more words. If thefelaft wars were purely defenflve for Religion, they could not be rebellious ; and if they were noc, we only lofe theinftance , but not the argument, as I have abundantly proven, But to this you make your N. C. Anfwer by ask- ing , How did the late KJnggive a fit fiance to the Ro- chellers , in the laflwars , if' Jo be they were rebellious .«* And to this you reply , That it proceeded from F f 5 clearly 45 8 Thefeventh Dialogue clearly acknowledged the Iawfuhiels and validitieof the Protectants their treatb , it is a more maniteft confeffion of the Peoples right and capacity to re- ftrain both by contract and neceffary force the unjuft and periecuting violence of their Prince , then all the inftances adduced do afford. It is true, youadde , That this afii fiance was on our Kings part mo ft juft 3 what ever the Subjetis of France their part in it might be. But where is your reafon for this infinuat dittin&ion? Or what Logick; can prove that a juft concurring alliftance may be given in an unjuft war ? That the iung of Britain interpofing was injured and affronted by the King of France , his breach is notdenyedby, or contrary to, us, more then the injury done by the French King unto thefe his Proteftants fubje&s. But to clear this paffage of your foolish quibles. The Duke of Rohan in the Ninth of his Politick Difcourfes, entituled , His Apology upon the Lift troubles of France bccaufe of the Helighn, plainly tell us, that the King of Britain did, by a Gentleman fent to him , remonftrat how he was furety in the laft peace, and did. companionate the Proteftants their fufferings , that if by fair means he did not obtain relief , he would ingage his whole Kingdomes , and his proper Perfon info juft a war to which he found himfelfe oblidged in honour and confeience, providing that the Proteftants would take armes with him , and promife , as he would do, not to hearken to any treatie , but jointly with him . And thereto the Duke fubjoines , that this promife of afliftance was his principal ingagement toarme: What think you then i T)o not th^fe words plainly enough denote both Religion to have been the caufe, and what was the Kings approbation of thefe wars / Or , if you doubt the French man's faith , pray talc but Anfwered. 45 9 but a view of Mr I{u(lworth's Collect ions as iinhis affair, and there, befide the confimauonot whac the Daks %es > I am perfA-adeu you * ill hnd , the King fo txprefs,and the Parliament to coidial , in their re- fentmencs ot the wrongs done to thefe poor Protef- tants> and in their readin^ffe to afiift for their relief, that you will be ashamed hereafter to fcorn your felfe by fuch confident childish conjectures and difhnc- tions. But , I am lorry , that by reflecting upon the pare of the French Proteftants , in that »\ ar , as lets juft then the King or Britain*, you shou'd have forced me to a difcovery , which rendmh its event fo disho- nourable to our King's memory. Having run thorow fo many examples , wich fuch fuccefs , aswehavefpoken, you conclude , *And thus 1 have cleared the Churches a: road oj that injurious fiain you brand them with. But feeing I have fo ma- maivifeftiy difcovered your falshood and preemp- tion, in this matter , I will not infult over this your folly. You go on in the next place to out Britain* and tell us of the Engli ]fh Reformation, and how that it was gained with no blood , fave that of "Martyrs , and that indeed was no fiain , but , as ycu do well cor- rect your felfe , its chief Ornament. But Sir , if the Reformation in other places were no lefs confirmed and rendi ed glorious by this zeal and ceftimony , and withall the People , by defenfively refilling > when in a furficient capacity, did evidence a greaterand more univerfal conftancy , not verfatile by every blaft of Authonty,and ambulatory atPrinces their pleafure, doth it not rather augment then diminish their praife. Youadde , That in England, though a Ptyifh and perfecting Queen interveened , betwixt the firjl Ra,or- mation afZjng Edward , and the fecond ofgaeen Edza- 460 The feventh Dialogue bah , yet none rebelled . And what tnen f Pray Sir , how or wheretore doth Scotland want that glory > Sure 1 am , that the Reiormation being eftabushed in Scotland > after a sharp war ( and by the way , you may remember , that Queen Elizabeth fid-d with the fubjeft ) both by Pacification? Authority and de- termination of a General Aflembly , yet we receiv- ed Queen Mary from France , a declared violent Papilt , without the leail queftion anent her right of Government , or any oppolition moved againit her , until provoked by fuch weaknefs & vvickedneile , as I am ashamed to mention* Wherein then in this regard are we inferior to England > unlefs it be that neither for the favour nor fear of a woman , we were moved by any publift aft, let be by vote of Parliaments the Repreientative of that Nation, to deny the faich, and again take on theyoke of the Upmane Antichrift ? Or how are you not ashamed > to reproach your Nation with a nimious fervour, fpecially upon this occafion, wherein our wortny Reformers did make the Court complyance , back-drawing and lukwarmnefs of a few temporizers , their great and continual com- plaint* In the next place 5 you tell us 3 that all that travel- led the World ? can witnefs that we were not af proven in our late rebellion , and palling by Diodat 3 Spanhem , Rjvet, Sdlmafwsy Blondel, Amerald, de Moulin* and others, not named, as all either in print orpubiick difcourfe declaring for you ? you fay , There was an a£l made by the Confiftory o/Charentoun that no man faould be barred the communion for the Scots Excommu- nication , except it were for a crime ; And this > for- footh was a loud declaration of their dif owning of our praBicet 'Tis anfwered. 1. Though you could give a account of the opinion of the Nations abroad > con- cerning Anfwered. 461 cerning our late wars 5 yet their judgement , in mat- ters io remote from their knowledge, and wherein, the favour generally born to Kings, fpecially when fo fatally unfortunat as Charles the firft was , is able to create in the moftpart, very little inquifnive, a very ftrong prejudice , cannot amount to a teftimony of any moment. 2. That the more knowing among t hem did , both by their Hiftorres and other writtings> & alfo by their letters,approve our proceedings,might be very cafily made out by an unanfwerable conde- fcendence ; nay that the generality both of Dutch and French Proteftants did condemne the King's party and their practices , 1 am certain , none of thefe to whom you appeal j in this matter, can juftlydifown it. As for Diodat , and the reft you name , u hy do you not e hibite their words ? You fay indeed for fome of them, very wifely and fafely, That they did only declare themfehes in their Difcourfes ar.d Ser- mons . And for thtfe 1 think you muft be excuf- ed , becaufe you heard them not . But for the reft I ingage, that whatever pafTages you shall adduce from them on your part , J shall redargue either their information , in matter of fact , or their reafons in matter of Right , to the fatis faction ofallunbyaiTvd men: Befide Sdmafius is moft ex- ceptionable , in refpedt he was imployed , and got money in the caufe : and yet , in the judgement of many, though he had unanfwerable advantages, as to the main defign of his defence , he was even in that shamefully baffled. And for Amerauld , read but his own vain and ridiculous Dedication of his paraphrafe, upon the P/almes , totheKing, intheyearof hisre- ftitution , and I am certain you will allow us to think the want of his fufTrage no prejudice to our caufe. Now for your aft made at Qharmton I confefs your noc 462 The fevemh Dialogue not producing ot it doih the more difiatisfy , becaufe you repreient it in termes little con&ftent, vi^Tbatfbc Scoi s Excommunication fcould not debar, aadefs it wereror a crime.Thdt you take a crime in chir place in its larger acceptation, ior an offenle, and not in that more ftrid and proper wherein Lawyers ufeit, it were d 1 (inge- nuity in me for to call it in qutftion. Bui then how Excommunication can othenvife proceed without the ?llegation of any crime, as you feem to accufe us , is indeed to me a difficulty inexplicable, & whereof, I am Cure, our Church could not be guilty ; and there- foiefeing the Confftoiie could not doubt that the Chvr.chot Scotland did hold an ofTenfe and obftina- cieto be the necefiary caufes of excommunication, for them to have flighted the tryal by us made, and judged the particular grounds of our procedure notan- fwerable to the general rule, had been breach of Chrif- tian communion and charity , whereof your naked atfertion shall never make me think the Fnncb Church guilty : withal yow know that the Bishop of Galloway , whom youalledoeto have been upon this a& admitted to tbe Lords Table , notwithstanding of bis excommunication , was excommunicate upon the ac- cufation of clear crimes. So that, what you call a loud declararion on the Confiftories part , I ap- prehend to be only a loud calumny on yours . But , whatever be in that aft , or the Bishops ad- mifEon , upon his own information , in opp^fi- tion to all your vain pretenfes ofco^ trarv Authori- ties, it is certain, that not only rhe truth and right was on our fide , but alfo that our practices were ap- proven, yea applauded and we therein encouraged by \ letters from feveralof the reformed Churches, yet cxcaot upon record. But •Anfwered. 463 But, in the nexc place, your. N. C Demanding it 9 you undertake to tell him ingenuoufly what precedents there are in Hijiorv for fubjetls fighting upon the account 0/ Religion. And the firft , you fay? that you know, h that o/Gregory thefeventh arming the fubjeBs of Ger- manie againfl Henry the fourth , from whom other ropes taking example , they made no bones upon any difpleafure, pretending al waves fome matter of Religion , to depofe Princes , and liber at their fubjeBs , ZAs you inslance in Frederick the. i. und 2. Lewes o/Bavier, and />« verai others , but W;e later! precedent , you fay, is the holy leagueofYii.nct from which you thinl^our whole mat' ter fetms to be transfer! bed. I have on purpofe exhibited thefe paflages together j that men may the better per- ceive the malice of your calumny , which prefacing and palliating with a great show of ingenuity , you profecute with meer falshood and impertinency. But firft, dare you , after fecond thoughts , affirmeupon your ingenuity » fmall as it is, that this Hiftory of Gregory is the firft precedent that occurres to you of fighting for Religion? I have already told you, how, before Conftantins Empire , the Chnftians in the Eaft, tht~ Ai-menii by name, did by armes aflert the liberty of the Gofpel , and rout Maximums their Perfecutor , and that the Pcrfian Chnftians , perfe- cute by their Princes, did implore the aififtance of the J{omanes againft them , is obvioufly notour. Are not thefe then antient and undeniable precedents ? But 2. What lik^nefs find you in Gregories cafe to thefe practices that we maintained An ulurpingPrelat, according to the Spirit of pride and violence, moving in that order, quarrels with the Emperour, anenr the inveltiture of Bishops, whether upon juft grounds or not, is not the prefent conoern, and thereupon ex- communicating him, extites his Subjects, yet unliable after 4^4 The feventh Dialogue after a recent rebellion, to a fecond riling. Pray Sir, was this a war provoked to by perfection & the necelfiry of defence, in which points, the jufticeof ourcourfes doth cheifly Confift ? Sir , do you think that a war , being fornetime made upon a falfe or unjuft pretenfe ofReligion,should bean inftancefufficient todifprove all warres whatfomever upon a Religious account ? Certainly, if we admit of fuch reafoning, the molt neceffaryandjuft defenfive war that ever was or ran be fuppofed , may by the objecting (though molt groundlefiy) or any of the moft arrant rebellions , by the fame confluence be condemned. Seing therefore that Gregork's courfe was plainly wicked, i . Bcau(e his medhng with the Emperour after this fort was a proud ufurpation. 2. Becaufe whatever right or wrong was m the matter , abftru.ftly considered , yet, without doubt , the Emperour's pretenfe was better founded, then the Pop's. 3. Becaufe he not only abufed thefpirituall cenfure , but perverted it to the inftigatting to perjury, rebellion, and blood, for his own tyrannous luft and ambition , your reproa- ching us , who from our heart deteft all fuch waves; either with this or any the like act of the papal info- folenceand domination, is but dull and ridicluous -envy. As for the Holy league of France, from wrYch, you fay, our whole matter feerns to be transcribed , Was it not contrived and entered into , at leaft in pretenfe, for the reftoring and fettling of Barnes fuperftition , and confequently for the extirpation of the proteftant Religion? How then can our necefTary undertaking for the defence of our felves , in the maintenace of the true Religion , and covenanting together, in this caufe, exprefly againft^owe/ defignes and inftruments, fe>e ailimulat to that precedent ? Out of what Topicks will Anfwered. 4.6$ will you prove fuch direct oppofites, asaLcague for eftablishing error againll truth j andaCovenant for truth's defence , to be parallel? Or do you think, that the Tame common name and forme of a League,or the accidental (imilitude of certaine ordinary methods andcircumftancesisfufficient to conclude allingage- ments , accordingly modelled ? under the fame character i But it is fo certame , that the molt wicked combinations of the ungodly may proceed in the fame form & manner , with the righteous Covenants of the faithful , and that as thefe may joyn themfelves to the Lord , in a perpetual Covenant , fo thofealfo may confpire againft the Lord and againft his anointed , plote againft the juft, and make a Covenant evert with hell and death , that I am ashamed of your fu- tility. But you fay , That herein we fymboli^e with Courticrsy Canonists and Iefuites the worft gang of the Rgmane Church j and yet fill heaven and earth with clamors a* gainfi the Church of England , for innocent er resemblan- ces. Sir j This your ^herein) needeth explication; for that as they did , fo do we enter into Leagues , is too general to import any reflection : and as to the fpecitications of that popish League , feing they dif- terminate our cafes to no lefs opposition, then that of error, perfecution and deftruution , on their part, to truth , neceflary defence and prefervation , on our part , what remains to make out this your objected agreement ?'Tis true , thefe French leaguers were fub- jects, and did pretend for their Religion, with art avowed preference to the fubordinate duty of their allegeance to their Prince : but feing their religion was a falfe fuperftition , and their ingagement neither pro- voked by injurie , nor limited ro defence , but in mi- nifeft malice 3 Without the countenance of Authority, G g entered 466 The feventh Dialogue entered into, to fupprefle, by bioud and violence , truth and innocenie, our Covenant, authorized by the unanimous vote of the Eftates of Parliament, /or tne neceility of defence, in an exigent, very de- monftrable both from our firft and chief obligation unto God , and unqueftionable liberty and priviledgc of felie defence , cannot without an impious effron- tery , be compared to that wicked and cruel Bond. And here , if companions were not mort odious then pungent , it were eafie for me to prove , that as our National Covenant was at firft made in oppofition to thebloudy decrees of the Council of Trent , and the combinations framed for executting thereof ;and our League and Coz enant afterward ingaged in, upon the exprefs consideration of the continual plotes and con- fpiracies of the enemies of God , againft his truth ; fo, it is only the practice of your Prelats , their perfect- ing bonds and fubfcriptions , with their perfidious helium Epifcopal e,znd not our defenfive Covenants,that can be reproached with the imitation of thefe popish courfes. But feing the neceility and juftice of our caufe was plainly fuch , as neither can beconveliedby your afperfions , nor needeth the confirmation of the known precedents of the French , and other protef- tants , counter-leaguing , in oppofition to that wicked League deviled againft them, I shall not detain you longer on this fubjeft. xVsforthe Churc h. of England's feeming to fym- bolize with Barney in fome innocenter things , as you phrafe it , I wish she were indeed as innocent in. that matter, a^ we are in what you obje&e. But feing what you would only have to be a feeming appea- rance , is a manifeft reality , already clearly De- monftrate , by the Authors of Altare damafcenum , and the Englifh Popijh Ceremonies ; palling this poor refiec- Anfwered. 367 reflection, asoneor youraflfeded tranfitions, 1 fol- low you ro your next purpo/e. Which you tabic by a challenge from your N. C. that you jlill retain the papacie , and do onlv change the perfon from the Pope , to the KJug , whom you make , and fwearto, a* Head of the Church. And to this you anf- were very vehemently j that it ps an impudent calumny* as you promt fe to clear by an account of the whole matter. But behold the worth:e performance \ a lame , con- hifed , pitiful ftorie, how the Pope , befide his general tyrannie , did, upon Kjng John his bafe r^fignationy exercife over England a particular authority '> that after the Reformation and the ^akingofthepapd yokfitbt Oath of SiOremacie was brought i,i , to exclude ■ ll forraign Iu- rifdifiion , and reinstate the Kjnginhis Chill Authority, That Henrie the $th d'd indeed fet up a Civill Papacie , but the Reformation of England wot never dated from his breach with Rome : that the Oath offuprcmacie was ne. ver dejigned to take awav the Churches intrinfccl^ Po- wer j or to make the power of Ordination , of filing Sa- craments , or of Discipline to flow from the King , that however , becaufe the generality of the words might fug- geil fcruples , they are explained in an ABi of Parliament ofQ^ Elizabeth , and in one of the 29. ^Articles ■> and m on full '■■■ bv tf.Usher with Kjng lames approbation. And lafllvfince we have this oath from England) none ought to fcruple, the words being fufficienth plain » and the Englifh meaning ours. This is the full and clear account which vou promife ; Bur who knows not thefe poor and infigniricant pretenfes : King John's resignation was indeed fo bafe , that by all difinterefted it was ever held to be invalid , and in after times fcarce ever men- tioned, let be pleaded. It is therefore the Pop's gene- raltvrannie and what it was, and whether abolish- ed, in thele Kingdomes, or in effect only transferred Gg 2 from 4-6 % The feventh Dialogue from him to the P; ince , that we are here to confider. And, 1 think, I may take it for granted , that you judge the Pope's exorbitant ufurpation , fpecially his aflumming to himielre , not an external ailifting over- fight ('which we grant to be the proper right of Prin- ces ) but? by way of anintrinfeck and direct power, the foleand uncontrolable caie of the Church, hermi- niitry and mimfteis , with his arrogating an architec- tonick power in the ordering of Gods Worship , fo that in all Lcclefiaftick meetings and matters therein propofed, he may enact what canons he pkafes , to be parts of the Papal tyranny , not only as in him, but in all men under our Lord Jefus Chrift, unwarrantable and antichriftian ; nay fomeofthefe are points of fo high a nature , that the greater part, even of the mem- bers of the Romifh Church, do reclaim againft them. Now queftionleffeif this power be to the Pope un- lawful and incompetent , all fecular perfons and Prin- ces are therefore much more excluded, inafmuchas the Pope being at leaft in shew a Church-man , and , according to the hypothefe even of your Hierarchy, the firft Bishop of the wefterne, if not oi the whole Church , he is fortified by certain feeming pretenfes , of which the clame of civil Princes is wholly defti- tute. To come then to our purpofe, that after the Reformation , the Popish yoke not only as to the particulars above mentioned, but alfo as to hisforreign Jurifdiction , unlawfully ufurped over Church-men in civills , to the prejudice of the King's Soveraignity \ was nghteoufly shaken off, and the King re-inftated in his Civil authority, over all Perfons , and alfo, in all Caufes, in iofar as they are committed to his royal direction and tuition, is not at all denyed : If that matters had here fifted , and upon the abolition of the Papal domination,* the things of God and otCafar had Anfwered. 469 had been equally reftored, who could have gain-iaid it { But that , on the contrary , by the Pop's exclu- fion, and, in place of this righteous reftitution, the King, under pretence of the vindication of his own Supremacy , did procure to himfelf a very formal and full rranflation of what the Pope had not only uftrped from him , but arrogate from God , (penally in the things above-fpecified , both the occafion of this change , and the manner how this Supremacy hath fince been exercifedj do aboundantly declare. And for clearing the occafion , it may be rcmembred , 1. That the Pt-m-_pence , called in the beginning the King's almes , impofed by on Ina King of the Wefl Saxons , was difcharged by Aft of Parliament in the reigne of Edward the Third ,and the contention anent the exemption of Church-men from the King's Courts moft hotly agitace, in the reignes of Henry Second and King John , was compofed many years before the dayes of Henry the Eight : So that neither that ex- action > nor this old debate, and far lefs King John's' moft invalide refignation > not worth the naming, could be the caufe of King Henry his acclaiming the Supremacy. 2. The only motive that we find in Hif- tory, whereby Henry was inftigat to reject the Pope, and to declare himfelf to be fupreme in caufes iiccle- fiaftick, afwell as civil, was his purpofeor divorce from Queen Kjitharine , wherein, finding himfelf abu- fed by the Pope and his Legates their delayes , he dis- charges all appeals to Rome, appointing them to be made from the ComifTary to the Bishop , from the Bishop to the Archbishop , and from the Archbishop to the King , and is thereafter firft called by the Cler- gy , and then declared by the Parliament , to be Su- preme head of the Church, in liew of the Pope, whofe authority was abrogat by the fame Aft ; Thefe things Gg 3 then 470 The feventh Dialogue then being certain ', and you your felfe acknowledging that Kjng Henry ckidfetup a civil Papacy, Iciseafy to determine , that this change, was not a bare exclufion, but a plain tranflation of tne Popes ufurped power. We %&ow the Reformation of England wot never dated from that breach with the Bifhop of Rome: But what then? Can you deny that this was both tne rife and establish- ment of the Supremacy , which being tranfmitted to Edvard the (ixth , and then renounced by Queen Mary , and again reftored to the Pope, was by Queen Elizabeth reaflumed, andfo continuethuntill this day? It is true j that after the breaking up of the more clear light of Reformation , whereby not only Rom's Su- peiftition , bot alfo the Popes ufurpation and tyranny, in many things , was , upon better reafons , rejected , and efpecially after the fucceiiion of Queen Elizabeth , to whofe Sexe the former title of headship , for all the fmoothings that had been before ufed , was never- thelefs conftrued not to be fo agreeable. Many expli- cations were adhibite for qualifying the Supremacy , both in anfwer to the oppofition of Papiftsand for re- moving the offence of the Proteftant Churches. But the truth is, thefe explications, though more found in their grounds, yet, in their explication , were noth- ing conclusive as to the prefent debate , and their Au- thors arguing for the Supremacy from the examples of reforming Kings and Emperours , acting not by yertue of an aftumed prerogative , but only from that extraordinary power , which the neceffity of the end, upon the failzour of other midfes , doth meafure out to Princes fii ft, and to others alfo, ifinacompetent capacity , did rather infer the justification of the work, then conclude the approbation of the Supremacy, not- withstanding it was therein imployed. Nay, while fey thefe their reafonings , they went about from fuch extra- Anfwered. 471 extraordinary interpofitions , only warranted by tne exigence of nteeiiicy , and the rectitude or tne work thereby efTe&uat , to eftablish co the Prince a conftant fetled authority , properly converfant about thefe mat- ters , the argument is far more abfurd, then if becaufe a Governour may , in a manifeft incident diforder falling, for example, in a Family, repone the Father and head thereof to his paternal ove:fight, one should thence conclude to the fame Governour , a proper power and faculcy of placeing and difplaceing Heads of Families, and appointing the Rules thereof at his pleafure. Now that thus it fell out in England after the Reformation , and that the fame ( it not a more exorbitant power) taken from the Pope, was tranf- f erred and fetled upon the Crown , as a pei petual pri- vilege thereof , is in the fecond place by the manner of its exercife , and its enfuing fruits , very evidently held out. For proofe whereof, the office and actings of the Lord Cromwe'i, as Vicarc General , aj pointed by Henry the eight, over the fpirituality , though by the good piovidence of God ordered to be a nota- ble mean for advance of the Reformation, is an un- deniable argument. And as to the continuance of the fame ufurpation , in order to other effects tnthem- felves evill , and no; to be jultified, there needeth no curious fearch ; the frequent practices of after Princes* laying claime to this power , namely Elizabeth, James and Charles , in their ecclefiaftick naediingSj but efpe- cially of his Majefty now regnant , in his interpoling in Church- matters , and thereby overturning a true Gofpe-lminil1ry,introducinganew model of Church- government , abfolutely dependent upon fumlelre, reviving vain, groundless and antiquat ceremonies, appointing and impoling new Religions, Dayesand Forms. Andlaftly, giving Rules to Minifters their G g 4 doctrine, qyz The feventh Dialogue doctrine, what points to preach ana what to omit > all according to the device of his own heart, are an obvious demonstration: which things are inthem- felves fo evident, that I ftrange you should accufe .Henry the Eight or a civil Papacy , and To mconle- cjuently acquit al his Succe (Tors : Whereas , in effect > they not only a&ed in Church- matters alter the fame method by him obferved, ufing the fame prerogative, in the grant of their High Commifhons and in other ads , w hich he exerciled in his vicarious deputation; but he is the Prince who (waving his halting upon the other fide 5 and confidering the neceility tnere was at that time , of an extraordinary remedy ? tor the good things that he did ) feemeth to have employed their yfurped Supremacy moft excuiably, and alio very ad- vantageoufly for the promo Ving of the Reformation. Bot you tell us , that the Oa.it: of Supremacy was never defigned) to takeaway the Churches hitrinfcci^powir , or to make the power oj Ordination 3 oj Sacraments , and oj Difcipiihe , Jiow jrom the ;Jng. It is anlwered 3 feing the many eviil effects of this supremacy ■> do fo plainly evince its direct and proper tendency 3 and its late explanation by A&. of Parliament* doth put its nature and extent beyond all controveriy , to tell us what at ririt it was or was not defigned tor , is but a vain luggeltiono And therefore according to thefe furer grounds , I mult now tell you . i. That al- though trie King , hot likely to be tempted by fuch an empty cunofity , hath neither expreily declared in his own favour, nor afiumed to hiu.feiie the exercile of this power of admin id ration y yet that by vertue of his Supremacy , as it now ftands explained , he may do both or either , when he pleafeth , is not to be doubted. I need not reminde you that any Church- power? not acknowledging a dependence upon, and fub- Anfwered. 473 fubordination unto the Soveraign Power of the King as Supreme, is abrogate and di.chaigtd. But, pray Sir , he who may enact what he thinketh lit concern- in" all Ecclefiuliick meetings and matters , may he noc , it he think tit , declare himleli to have the power ot the minifterial Junction? Nay? what may he not do t But 2. admitting that this was noc meaned by the Parliament , in their explanation , and that in probability the King will ntvei affect rhc 1m- ployment ; yet that the intnnfeck power oi Govern- ment belonging to the Church , both as toa^ociety ot our Lords erection , and by his exprefs gift and concetlion, is by the Supremacy taken aw ay? 1 be- leeveit will belofar from ben gdilowned, that it is rather vaunted of as its principal end and advantage* But referring the truth and evidence oF this point, anent the power oi Government , given by our Lord immediacly to his Church , to what haihbeenvcry fully by others declared, and is by meabove hinted at, I verily think, that though we had no other ar- gument , lave the fad changes that of late have enfued upon the ufurpation of this Supremacy, the ufeful- nefs and excellency ot this intnnfeck Government , is thei cby rendered apparent , beyond the evidence of any iurther confirmation. And really when, together with the authority of its founder , I confider the un- deniable neceility and expedienceof an internal power of Government in the Church , as the molt figniricant mean tor making all its other gifts, powers, & offices effectual, And how much it is commended by the fignal ufefulnefs or a proper Government in every So- ciety , but more efpecially to our adverfaries by that high yea facred eftimat , which they fo muchincul- cat of thatCivil-government, and all its punctilios, w hereupon then intertft depends » and when > on the C3 g 5 other 474 The feventh Dialogue other hand, I reflect upon the pernicious and woful influences , that in aii ages have couftant,y attended either thefuppreflion or uiurpation of this great divine ordinance, f cannot diffidently regrete , that the pride, ambition and vanity of men . in letting up and advancing this Supremacy , should be fo iinrully fubiervient to the Diveli's great defign . of croiling the progrefs of the Golpei , and propogating irreli- gion : Which evil is the mote to be lamented , that noth withstanding that our own experience of its wretched confequences , dfcth evidently redargue this ufurpation , yet thefe men who , in the matter of Ci- vil-government , make every circumfbnce facred , and exclairne againft the fmalleft innovation , as if all confufion were imminent, can and do, inthebuiinefs of Ecclefiaftick government , with a more then Gallio indifferency and coldnefs, flight all its concerns , in oppoiirion to their carnal defignes, as queftions oimeer outward forms , and the skirts andfuburbs of Religion, far removed from its life and fubjlance. Whereas it is very certain , that eternal life and fal vation , the great end , is not more preferable to temporal peace and out ward tranquillity , then our zeal for the government of God's Houfe, inftitute by himfelfe in his Church , in order to our everlafting welbeing ? ought to exceed our regard to Civil government , which in this refpeit, are but the ordinances of man , in order to our tempo- ral interefts: Nay, fo apparent is the lukwarmnefs & hypocrify of mens reafcnings in behalfe of this Su- premacy, that though in the fuppofition that our Lord had byhimfelfe immediatly eretted in any Kingdom , a Society or incorporation with matters , laws, and a competent jurifdi&ion , in order to fome temporal advantage , as he hath , in the acknowledgement of all y inftitute his Church with Ordinances , Officers , and Anfwered. 475 and Government fu^ed 10 its great ends , all rational men let be the members or that Society > would judge the King's pretending to an arbitrary and abiolutedif- pofal ot thefe pi evileges thus granted > to be an nous invafion and ufurpanon. Y-t, in ordei to u,c Church and her nghes and immunities , they are not ashamed to cut offio even and juit a parallel , and deny fo evident a confequence in bchaii of her righteous liberty : But ivijdomc is ptftified o her children. And how much were it to be wished , that , at the leaft , the children of light were as wife as the children of this world are in their generation. 3 , Betide the in- vafion threatened to the Church , in its power ot ad- ministration , and the ufurpation rrom the Church of the power of Government, which this Supremacy imports, it further attributes to the Prince , according to our Parliaments late explication , an iliimited power in matters of Religion , proper and reserved to God alone. To ena£t whatever a manthmketh titin Ecclefiaftick meetings and matters , J am certain , is that which the Lord did never allow to any meer man under heaven ; and vet that this power is alTumed, and how, by vertue thereof, old, unwarrantable fuper- ftitions have been retained , new rites and ceremonies in Divine Worship deviied , and Churches turned and overtu-ncd , according to mens pleafure 3 is lmlicient. ly known without my condefcendence. And there- fore, feing the King, by vertue of his Supremacy , doth not only intermedle, by giving his civill Sanc- tion and confirmation to the intrmfeck powers of the Church , by you mentioned , as you do allege , or bv ads imperate , as others , in contradiftinftion to elicite acts in thefe matters, doe ufe to exprefs it, but doth lay claimetoanabfolute power in and over all Church - matters and pcrfons , the filly pretenfe whereby 476 The feventh Dialogue whereby you go a^out to fmooch it is not worthie of any mans notice. In the next place> you tell us offome explications pro- vided for removing of the females , which the generality *f the words of the oath of Supremacy might fuggefl. A nd to this it may furjiceforaniwer , that feing thefe expli- cations are certainly confined to England , and by no publick Aft received or owned among us , your alle- geance , with your childish ground , that we have this oath from them , is wholly impertinent as to our re- leife- But feing the fetting down of thefe explications, contained in the Englifc a£t and Articles above cited, ("Which you do counningly omit) will not only? by comparing therewith the far different practices of the Kings of that Realmejdifcover the inadequatnefle, not to fay the flightneile of thefe fenlings , in effect meerly devifed to palliat an excels in itfelf novvife juftifiable , but more fully manifeft the ftrange ex- travagance both of the practical acceptation , andlate exprefs interpretation of this Supremacie. You may read them as follows • the words of the Act in eju'mto Elijah. Declare her power and Authority to be afoverai- gnity over all manner ofperfons , borne within the Rjalme9 whether they be eccleiiaftical or temporal, fo that no forreigne power hath or ought to have any fuperiority over them, and thefe of the Articles , run thus. ^Art. $7. We give not to our Princes the mini firing either of Gods Word or of the Sacraments , the which thing the injuncti- ons alfo lately fetfjrth £yElizab our Queen do moft plainly tefiifie : but that only prerogative ? which we fee to have- been given alwayes to all godly Princes , in holy Scrip- tures , by God himfelfe , that is, that they fcould rule all Eftates and degrees committed to their charge by God » whether they be Ecclefiaflical or Temporal, and reflrain with the chill fword thefiubJporKS, and evill doers, Thefe bein* Anfvvcred. 477 being the termes ofthefe explications! what confo- nancie the medlings of their Princes in impofing rites, ceremonies and formes of Woiship, enjoyning their own dayes , and profaning God's , com manding what Do&rine Minifters should forbear , permitting ex- comunication in their own name jointly with the Lords , and finally } by fitting and ruling in the Tem- ple of God , as in their own Court , do hold therto , is obvious to the firft reflection : Only this I muft fay, that if the Kings of England their Ecclefiaftick actings be indeed fufficiently warranted j by the foregoing ex- planations , the Author of the late difcourfe or Lccle* fiaftick policy , who , in profecution of the King's Su- premacie , doth plainly annexe unto it the Authority of the preifthood , and power over the conscience, at leaft the obedience of men, in matters of Religion $ in place of that applaufe, wherwith he is generally received at Court , deferves rather to be demeaned as the higheft calumniator and depraver of his Majefties government. But not to trouble you further with thefe double English fenfesr.^ that pretended by their A&s of Par- liament and Articles , which I grant to be more found, and fuch wherewith many godly men have refted fa- tisfied, and the other more true , received and follo- wed by their Court and Clergi _• , nor yet to infift upoa your incomparable and bLffed (Who now hath mens perfons in admiration":) Bifoop U(her his more full interpretation equally redargued by what I have al- readie faid. Let us confider our Scots moft exceilive , though more ingenuous , explanation \ and although, I do apprehend the words of the Oath of Supremacie to be in themfelves capable of a found fenfe , and that by underftandingyi^rtvwe Govemour of this KJngdome ♦ not to be a limiting defignation , but a plain qualifica- tion 478 The feventh Dialogue tion of the nature o; the govern men t as being fa order toitscorrelatthis Kingdome, in itfelie civil, and only in chis notion, ro be extended to peiibns and caufes ecclefiaftick , all difficulties may befalved j yet? 'vhen to th j rile and manner ot this Supremaci. above decla- red? I adde how of late it harh been made the giound of the King his reftoring of Bishops, and framing their government to an abfolute dependence upon him- felfe , grantingottnehighCommiflion, appointing the conititucio.] of a National Synod , and of other ftrange acts before touched , and eipecially that as the A&Parl. 1592. exp-efl" and iufth limiting this Su- premacy, was by the hrft AB ^Cf.i. Pari. 1661. Whol- ly abrogate and made void ; loby the rirft AB of the Par. 1669. Theiame Supremacie is alfrrted tothat abfurd hight , as doth import a plain furrenderof Con- fcience , and fubmiilion of all Matters of Religion ( forastocivills, we are not fo rash ) to his Majef- ties pieaiure, in a mote abfolute manner, then ever to this day hath been acclaimed either by Pope or ge- neral Council* Thefe things , I fay , being weighed, I think I may fafely conclude, that I look upon the Supremacie not only as a chill Papacie,but an height of ufurpation againft our Lord > King inZion, whereunto never Chriftian Prince nor Potentate did heretofore afpire. And here , your N. C. feconding m.v afertion tells you > that this Supremacie clearly makes wav for Eraftianifme. To which you an I wer, That this ts one of cur mutinous arts, tofiudoutlov^ & hard names, and af~ fixe them to any thing dirple.:feth us. But palfing the childishnefs of thisconceiie, as if either along or hard name were more odious truna snort, in my opinion, fnch is the manif.ft wickednefs of this your Supre- macy > that it is one of your delujivearts to mak e v our. N.C. Anfwered. 479 N.C rather vail ir with an obfeure name, then leave it toan opendifcoverie; and in the fame man- ner it was, that the men of your gang, after they be- gun to broach their dangerous , dhTolute, and un- dermining principles, thought fairly to have palliate all with rhe gentle name ol : Latitudin.iri.n , as appa- rently obleidging to all parries: But now that they are dtte&ed, they turn their talk , and loth to marr their affe&ed fmoothnefs by terming it otherwife then , the long name , rhey blame us for loading them with reproach : whereas , to the beft of my know- ledge , it was their own invention and choife. But nottodetaineyou about names, which really I do fo little value, in anyieiredt , that 1 do not fo much as regard rhe name Fanaticl^, nor thefe many other, wheiewithihe truth, and partie , which 1 maintain have been llandered , let us proceed to what you fay to the things. And tirft you tell us , that in the old Teflament the Kjnvs o " Judah frequent ly mealed in drjitl e matt:r$ , and the Sanhedrin , which was a civ ill Court d termined in all matters of Religion. 'Tis anfwered , did >ou not juft now give us an account of certain reftri&ive explica- tions made of the Supremacie ? What do you then intend by thefe mftances ? Not that I do excludeKin^s from a due medling in divine matters , or do de- cline the righteous practices of the Kings of Judah , in the Iargeft conftruftion that they can receive; But certainly, if what you fay of their Sanhedrin be true, it will overturne all your pretended limitations, at leaft , give to the King a determining judgementin all matters of Religon , which neither'ought , nor can beadmitted. But. 2. This threed-bare argument, ta- ken from the Kings of Judah and the Sanhedrin, for your Supremacie , is fo fully anfwered by others, fpe^ cially 4«o The feventh Dialogue cially by Mr. Gilkftu , in his ^Aaron's Rod; and he hath lb evidently cleared , that there was a Sanhe- drin ecclefiaftick, diit met from the civill, and that thefe two governments were not confounded , that I wonder you are not ashamed of fuch jejune repeti- tions. And , in effect , it is fo plain in Scripture , that none of thefe Kings did incerpofe in matters of Religion , or her wife then by their extrinfeck over- fight and alliftance , except either by immediat com- million and direction from God, as it happened in the eltablishment made by David and Solomon, not to be drawn in confequence , or els in the cafe of ne- ceffary Reformation , in which , ordinary means ceafing , tile obligation of the end doth authorize even more extraordinary endeavours , that feing the Lord himfelfe did immediatly reprove the ufurpation ofUtfiab , I cannot imagine from what particular precedent you do defigne your advantage. However, of one thing I am molt perf waded , and I am chari- table to think that all your confidence dare not deny it , that had any one of the Kings of Judah arrogate to himfelfe a Supremacie in all caufes , and over all per- fons , afwell Ecclefiaftick as Civill fo as to declare that whatfoevcr he, should enact , anent Ecclefiaftick meetings or matters should be obeyed and obferved by all his fubjects , he had been repute no other then a rebell and ufurper againft God , and a proud contem- ner of his Law : And as for the Samdrin , though it were not proven that there was one Ecclefiaftick, and an other Civill , yet their diftinct, facred , and in- violable Preifthood , doth fo ftrangly plead for a con- itant feparation where we find the Lord to have made a divided inltitution, that any conjunction in that Court, or any thing befide occafioned by their fin- gularly mixed Policy , can nowife infer the con- clusion you plead for. The Anfwered. 48 1 The next thing you lay is , Toattbe Cbrifii.m Empe- yours did ,/iedle in matters of Religion ,*Tis anf. That the firft Cfnftian Emperours did medle in matters of Re- ligion, foastoconfirme the truth and Ecclefiaftick decrees by their Civill fan&ion , to eftablish the Church in the condition wherein they found her , to adorne her with certain privilcdges , enrich her with revenues, and beautifie her with fair ftiu&ures , is not denyed ,• But what is all this to yourSupremacie £ And who is he who doth not wish for a juft meafure of the like favour and affiftance i You add , that they called the firfl general Councils. And why not i Who denyes that the King may, within his Dominious , do the like i But the point you drive , is to have this power to the King folely, and exclufive of any right and power in the Church to appoint and meet in fuch. AiTemblies, (what ever be the necdlity) contrary to the Kings prohibition: And that, for order and decency , the King's confent and countenance should rirft be fought , nay, that his refufal ought to be of that moment as not to be counterbalanced ^ but by a very vifible urgencie , is by all granted. Only that hehathanabfolute -veto in this matter, T positively and firmly deny : for , leing it is evident, that the Church , while under pagane Princes , did enjoy this power , how she should lofe it, upon their be- coming Chriftian , otherwife then to be tyed , out of refpect and for order , to make to him the firft ap- plication , to be regulable by his reafons , and very tender of his difplealure , is utterly unexplicabie , and were in plain termes to defer to them as Chnftians, though afting as Antichriftians , and worfe then their pagane predecefTors. And further it maybe confide- red , that the power of conveening in Council , being founded on the fame warrant with the Churches IL H h berty 4$ 2 The feventh Dialogue berty to meet for the duties of Worship , the former no more then the later can be made dependent upon the Prince his pleafure. But you fubjoine, that they pre fided in tbefe Councils: And to this there is no anfwer like unto your own , vi%. that in prefiding they only ordered matters but did not decide in them \ which ? together with a Mo; derator , aftef the example of the fir ft Nicen Sy- nod, wherein Confiantine prebdin&Euftathius of An- tiochdid by prayer open the Council, you know we do willingly allow. But to help you a little in this point, I grant that Theodofius in the Council of Con- ftantinople feemstohzve gone a great length; yet all that we find upon record is that the Council being di- vided without ifiue, by the opinions of theOrtho- doxe, & of the Macedonians , Arrians 8c Ennomians , theEmperour requires their feveral confcifions , and, after much earneit prayer to God for light and direc- tion , he declares for the Nicen Faith \ whercunto the Synod agreeing , the contrary herefies are con- demned: And this was no doubt a very laudable prac- tice , warranted both by the exigent and the truth it felfe j wherby many things lefs regular , without in- ferring an ordinary and proper power in the Author for their warrant , have very often been fuftained. A^ good turne , fpecially when done in the ceflation of o- ther midfes> doth fufficiently fubfift by its own merit. Jehojada a Prieft in a ftate of necellity 5 armes againft aTyranne, andreformestheKingdome: But can you or any man thence conclude , that therefore he a&ed from an ordinary power and facultie, a priviledge proper to his office * Why then should men be fo ab- iurdly unequal , as from the like extraordinary inter- positions of Princes , in Church perturbations , to attribute to them a proper inherent right and per- petual prerogative ? Wcxt Anfwered. 485 Next you fay , That the Emperourt alfo judged in mat- ters of ' Scbiftne. But feing that any judgement given by them wasconfeqnent to the Churches determination, though perhapes with a little attemperation for con. ventency, whereof determinations m thefe matters do very naturally allow , the inftance is no more favou- rable then the red you have adduced. But the Code, Bafilicks ScCapituLrs oj Charles the great fhe& that they never thought it without their fphcre to make lawsinEccU- fiaflicl^mattcrs. 'Tis an.fvv. This objection shewes>that either you are little acquainted with what is in thefe Books, or little advertent to the conclusion you have in hand. The laws you mention , are either imperial confirmations of the truth , owned by the Church , or for condemning and punishing of declared here- ticks , or for authorizing and ordering a Mender um- brage of jurifdiction called epifcopaln audhntia, gran- ted to Church- men in charitable and favourable cafes, or for reftraining and correcting their duTolute man- ners, orlaftly, anent the regulating, of Hofpitals , Alms-houfes, & other things, pertaining to the out- ward policy of the Church. Pray Sir , what make thefe for your Supremacie K Or was ever this part of his .Majefties power-by us queftioned ? But where wilyou tindc, in all approven antiquity , that ever a Prince by vertue of a pretended inherent right in his Crown , or any acclaimed prerogative and Supre- macie , in caufes Ecclefiaftick , took upon him, with one bio w.fum manly to overturne the efbblished Mi- niftery of a Church, by himfelfe formerly by fo- Iemn Oath contirmed,introduce new O.'Hce-bea'ers , fet up a new frame of Church- government , declaring himfelfe to be the fole head and fountain thereof, to whom all others, as fubordinat , muft be accountable H h z for 484 The feventh Dialogue for their admifhations t In what antient record did you ever read of a Co mmiifion granted by a King for Kcclefiaftick affaires > impo wering Secular perfons to appoint Minifters to be cenfured by fufpenfion and depolition > and Church-men to punish by fining , confining , incarcerating , and other corporal paints ? What Emperour or Prince did ever aflume to himielfe , in the right of his royal power , at once to impofe upon a whole Church a new licurgieand form offervice never before heard of among them t Or? did it ever enter in the heart of a Chnftian Potentat to declare for a Law , that what ever he should pleafe to enact anent Church-meetings and matters should upon the publication be by all obeyed and obferved , and , in fuite of it , to ftatute , that if either Minifter or other perfon , not allowed by his or his Bishops authority, do preach, expone Scripture , or pray, except in his own houfe , and to thefe only of his own family , it shall be judged a CoventLcle , and liable to pains of Law ? Thefe are a part of the native fruits of your Supremacie. If you lookback to con- firme it by antient precedents , pray , give us but one parallel. I grant, that Juftinian ,infomeofhis Con- ftitutions , after having declared and confirmed the tnuh, received by the Church, and determined by her Councils $ not only condemnes , but anathema- tizes the contrary herefies* But feing his ullng of that phrafe peculiar to the Church, and properly impor- ting a power , acknowledged not to be competent to fecular Athority , doth only exprefs his more enixe deteftation of thefe errours , and approbation of the Church her cenfures againft them , it cannot with any colour of reafon, be made ufe of for your purpofe. But you proceed to tell us, that the BiJbofs> not Anfwered. 485 ixceptingtbe Bijhope oj Rome,/r ere named , at leap: their eleftions appro~jcni?y f/;e£mperours.. And what then * For my part , if the Emperour , and all Chnftian Princes should agree at once, to reduce them, af- well as they advanced them , it should not be accoun- ted an invafion of the Churches power or priviledge. ' But , becaufeit is like that thefe Emperours, you fpeakof , did indeed regard them , as true Church- officers , & neverthelefs medled ,as is mentioned , in their elections , I anfwer further > that the true caufe of Princes their tuft medling in the elections of Bis- hops was , either the diffidence of the Bishops , as to that office and title, wherein not being facisried from Scripture, warrant, they were inclined to apply to the Emperour for the fupplement of his confirma- tion , or els their folicitous ambition , which , in thefe arly contefts chattily had for precedency, did prompt them , among other artifices , to fortify their pretentions by the Lmperour's favour and fuffrage. However this is very certain , th2t whether the Em- perour's medling was firft procured by theBishopsad- drefs, or did flow from their own proper motive, had thefe Church-men contained themfelves within the rules and limits fet to them by our Lord, they had never judged the Emperours confirmation requi- fite to the validity of their office and title: and there- fore feing the true account of this matter, is, that the afpinng ot" Ecclefiafticks did give the firft rife unto this fecular medling , whether we take it to be no ufurpation , as being converfant about that, which, to fay the truth 3 is not Chnftian , letbeEcclefiaftick, or to be a partaking in the Church men their ufurpa- tion , either of the two do.h equally make void your argument. Hh 3 After ■ 486 The fevcnth Dialogue After the reafons , which we have heard , you con- clude, That KJngs their medling in Ecclejiafiicl^aff aires, was never controverted , till the Rgmane Church Jhelied to the hight of tyranny , andfince the reformation , it hath been fiitlfiated , as one of the differences betwixt m and them, h is anfwered. If Princes had at tirft exceeded and intruded coo far in Church-matters , and then the Pope acted by a worfe fpirit , and no lefs afpiring, had rilen up againfthis Mailers , and thruft himfelre into their rooms , what would this make for your ad- vantage t Or doth it to either of them conclude a right i Suppofe a Papift debating this queftion should argue thus , that the Pope \m headfhip in EccUfiafiic]^ affaires in England wai never controverted , till Henry the Eight > impatient through luft , did arrogate to him- felf the Supremacy , and fince that time it hath flill been Jiated of one of the controverted differences > would you think this reafoning pungent * V/hy then is not your difcerning equall to your judgement? But the clear truth in this matter is , that although the Emperours of old did, at no time, lay chime to this Supremacy queftioned , yet they and the fucceeding Princes > having too much connived at and countenanced the Antichriftian ambition , working in Prelacy toward the Papacy , it was from the righceous judgement of God, that> upon its exaltation, they were blinded and involved in thele contentions , and juftly plagued bythetranfcendent infolence ofanevill , which they had too much fomented: And therefore your dating the period of chefe contelts from the fecting up of the Papal tyranny, doth contribute nothing to your ad- vantage. And where you fay, that fince the Reforma- tion the Supremacy hath flill been fiat ed at one of our diffe- rences from them , 'T is very certain , chat it hath been granted by ail the reformed Churches,, that princes may Anfwered. 487* may and ought to reaiTume their own power and King- dome, given unto the Beait, info far as, in the times or the prevailing of themyftery of iniquity , it was either by force extorted , or by fraud elicite from them: But that any King or Prince, upon the pre- tenfe of recovering his own from the Pope, should lay claim to all that he hath ufurped , either againft our Lord , or over his Church , nay to more then ever any Pope did arrogate , which is the cafe and import of your Supremacy , is that whereunto , I am confi- dent, no true fubjeft of JefusChrift, and enemy of Antichrift can judiciouflyalTent: And therefore if in this we do more folidly & foundly maintain the diffe- rences betwixt the Reformed and Popish Churches , and , while we affert our Lord's prerogative and his Churches prtviledge againft the Pope , do not betray them to any other precender, we nope our differing from you , afwell as the Papifts , in this matter, shall only witnefs us to be the more upright defenders and no deferters of the proteftants plea, and the truth of God. Now , this is That Supremacie which as I have very plainly and graphically reprefen- tcd without making ufe of Scolaftick termes or dif- tinctions , in my opinion not more frequent then fu- perfluous in a matter fo palpable; fo I am confident that every one who hath that true underftanding of the fear of God , and the fincere love of our Lord Jefus , will ever abhorre it with all its wicked effects. But you in your craftinesdo not only make your. N. C. cede as it were to your reafonings, but in a manner own the late pretended Indulgence , as flow- ing from the Supremacie , on purpofe to fix upon thefefevv Minifters of ours, who have been thereby reftored, at leaft , a conftruftive approbation of this evill. And thus you move your N. C. to fay that he Hh 4 hopes 4$ S The feventh Dialogue hopes you arefo much for the Supremacy > as not to quarrel at this Indulgence lately granted ; and by way or reply you tell him , how good Subjects you are not to criticise upon your Soveraign's pleafurc , and how much more mode- rate then we, who would not have received ann. 1641 fuch a proportion from the Kjng in favours of the Doctors of Aberdeen; And from this , raping to touch our oppoling the readmiifion of Malignance to the Army againft the Englijhes , you exceed inly pleafe your ielfe in your own weil-nacur'd compliance , and would have even the jeaioufy and averfion, which fomeof you havi tor this favour > commend your fubmilfiori as the greater vertue , becaufe againft vour inclination. But 5 not tolofe time in thefe your triffllngs,the weak shado wings of your vain imagination, to be briefT and round with you , 1 differ from your N. C» 2nd am 10 much againft the Supremacy , that I abominat the Indulgence under this name. That God hath dff- pofed the King , to reftore, in any meafure , what was fo finfully taken away , we account it a great bleifing, wishing that he may be in fuch manner latiffied with the fruits of this courfe as may more and more con- vince him of its righteoufnefs , and encourage him to its profecution ; But if you or any els do think, by this poor and fcant reftitution , to bribe the Lords People to a confent to the reft of your ufurpations a and a more tame compliance with all the other wrongs and rmfchiefs, that you have done and are ftill doing , we trull the Lord shall deliver his own from fo fearfull a fnare: And that as hitherto our Mmifters have looked upon themfejves as fuch, neither of man nor only by man , but by Jefus Chrift and God the Father ; fo they will accordingly acquit themfelves , and in a f[ ecial manner (as they expect our Lords f refence to be with them ) teftify lor his right and ordi- Anfwered. 4S9 ordinance againft all invaiions , and that fo much the more , as the hard condition or the preient times hath in fome fort ingaged them to a Teeming allowance , of which they ought to purge themlelves in the firft place. As for your being better fubjeSis to the Kjng then we are • we know inueeci that many , if not all , cr you , either principally defining , or els (imply deluded by outward peace and eafe , do , in order to this endf not only acknowledge the King as supreme , but in effeft adore and revere him as the moil high , and for the freedome of your perfons and fortunes ? really enllave your confeiences to his dictates : But , as this is a fubje&ion no more liable and tixed , then the mu- tability of that intereft , whereon it depends j fo it is a meafure thereof} for which we do neither envy you , nor for the want thereof fear to be lefs accept- ed, either with God or man. Only let me tell you> that I take your not criticizing upon the late Licence , a thing, though very hardly refolved upon, and no better digefted by your evill natures and foolith ma- lice; yet, in it felte, moll conducible> and in its erFe£t very advantagious to your ends , to be fo much the concernment of your intereft, asfcarce to be a mark of juft and ordinary fubje&ion, let be to furn- ish a complement to your (lavish flattery. But you talk to us alfo of your greater moderation : O the impudence ! The Prelates having raged feveral years in perfecution and violence againft per(bns, only chargeable with a (imple not-countenancing of their evill courfes , to the ruining of a part , and diftreiiing of the whole Countrey, and to the manifeft hazard of turning all to Confufion , a few of our Rulers more wife ( foiefeeing the confequences ) are at length perfwaded to a fmall relenting , and in hope thereby H I15 more 49° The feventh Dialogue more affuredly to compafs their end ot iupprelfing and extinguishing the party by them feared, theyrefolve rather to allay and break them , by pretended favour and Teeming indulgence : And this having iucceeded more happily , then either reafon or fei^e can con- vince the ever- jealous and cruel Prelatick Clergie, you would have us fo ftupid as to applaud you for your moderation , as exceeding any thing by us prac- tifed. But to convince you , by the retortion of your own inftance , Will you or any knowing man affirme, that if there had been no more of neceility and intereft to plead for us , then appeared in the behalfe ot the Doctors of ^Aberdeen , we had notwithstanding have attained to this favour? For my part? I think it may be d-monftrate , that had that freedom e been ufed by us in open difputing and oppoftng , which was per- mitted , nay allowed to the Do&ors , inftead of Anfwers , and Anfvvers to R.-plyes , as they are term- ed j we had certainly got Pnfons and Gibbets. And yet for all your calumnious alleageance , that they and other worthy perfons ( whom neverthelefs you wifely forbear either to name or number) were by m driven away by tumults and not by laws. It is known that all they fufTered was , after defperate obftinacy , to be removed either by Law or Ecclefiaftick-cenfure. The next thing whereby you go about to make out your charge of rigor againft us , is , that we purged our Armies. And wherefore not ? That evill men do not by reafon of fin forfeit their rights , and confequently may lawfully defend them , is not denyed : But that the Lord, having then fo lately teitiried his difplea- fure againft the Malignant courfes of the 1648. And we having thereupon fo folemnly vowed ade- teftarion thereof, and a non- conjunction with all their bettors, there was juft reafon , when the neceility w^s Anfwered. 491 was not fuch as to leave no place for election , m the fear of the Lord's dilpleafure, to preferre his Com- mand. Dait.zi.v. 9. and our own ingagements unto the then contrary pretentions • and to keep us from every wicked thing , cannot rationally be disproved. However thefe things being nowpait, I love not to rake in them > my hearts defire is, that the things which have fince befallen us , and feem to have lb clear a dependence upon the unftedfaftnefs , infinceri- ty , mockery , heats and contentions of thefe bygone tranfactions , may at length lead every ferious fearer and feeker of the Lord , unto a fingle and through difcovery , and the repentance which the Lord re- quires. As for the advantage you would draw from this objection t I have already told you that neceility and intereft do too vifibly influence all your pretended moderation , to leave you any matter of boafting in your late abatements. But he who pleafeth to turne nis eye upon the other fide, and there, with your former Ecclefiaftick rigors, behold your other me- thodes , in appointing the Declaration , as an indifpen- fable condition of State- trufts, and in your manifeft difcountenancing all of a different perfwafion , will certainly admire to find you io much exceed , even in thefe veryevills, which you would appeare tocoa- demne. Now to your ftiffling ofjealoujics , which vexe fome of your more weak and malicious Modells. We know too well their (elfish and cowardly difpolitions. , to impute their not whiipering to any true refpect to authority, more then the compliance of others to your alledged moderation. To obey God more then man, and therefore to fuffer affliction crofs to our in- dination, is indeed a faire 3ccelIion to thepraifeof the 49 ^ The feventh Dialogue the grace of God in tnis greater venue you vaunt of, and wherein wedefireto be round: But as for your fubmiffion againit certain blind perfwalions , and peevish fears (which you call your inclination) to that abfolute overfwaying devotion , which we know you bear to Peace and Eafe > many of you have fo notour- ly already bafely renounced , not only your God , but your King ( for whom you do more highly pretend ) for this intereft , that you muft pardon us , neither to applaud your obedience nor fubmirlion from fuch fuggeftions. And fo indeed you infinuat more intelli- gibly then you are awar; for you fay, that if weabufe not this liberty we have got , you. fliall never complaine of it: which according to the conftruction of abufes , held out by your lawes and practices,doth fo plainly found? if you neither offer to reckime the people from their rebellion againil, and backfliding from the Lord , nor to warne and teftify againft the courfes , and tenden- cies of an antichriftian Supremacy and profane Pre- lacy, that the benefice and fecurity > which you would obtain by the performance of this condition? doth render your pretended acquiescence almoft ridicu- lous. But you go on toadde. Nay, you would rejoice to finde it produce the effe&s > for which it is defigned , vi%. to bring us to a more peaceable temper. And who either doubteth this in your fenfe , or refufeth it in a juft fci\fo ? could we exchange a good conference for Court-compliance , or prefer Peace to Truth, which do plainly appear to be the termes of difference ? wherein we ftand, there is no queftion of your victory and our agreement : But feing uhis may not be , and your deligneisatbeft prepofterous , I hope, I shall more eaiily obtaine your concurrence in my wish, that the Gofpel and godlinefs being by this indul- gence Anfwered. 49$ gence advanced , true peaceablenefs and peace may thence enrue. The fecond effe&of this Indulgence by you intend- ed , Is to make us v..lue and love more one of the Jtobleft and mojl generous Princes that ever ruled. Sir, youjuftnow commended your felfe for abetter Subject > then to criticize upon your Soveraign's pleafure, and, 1 think, I should at leaft be (bciyill, as not to contrcveit his praile ; but as I do heartily pray that the Lord would make it a hundred times fo much truly greater then it is * So, let me tell you , that to lkte your fuperlatives of Nobility, and Generality , upon the grant of this Licence , a very mean and fcant aft of juftice , elicit by a vilible State-conveniency , if not neceifity , and many degrees inferior to the liberty granted either by the King of France , to his Protectants, or the great Turk, to his Chriftian Subje&s , is rather to betray then advance your Prince his reputation. I fay not this to diminish the juft acknowledgement of his Majefties juftice, that every good fubjeft ought on every occafion to exprefs ; but this your artifice , ei- ther to baffle our confeiencious non-compliance with your remaining corruptions , as ingratitude , or to flop the procedure of the King's goodnefs , as being already in the next degree to an excels > muft not go unnoticed. Your third effeft defigned , is to difpofe us to a bro- therly accomodation with you , Which you fay j the Fathers of the Church are readieto offir , on (uch ter- mes ai refufed will declare m to be fchifmatical. But feing all along you would have this licence to be a free favour, and would thence plead its obliga tion toward a brotherly Accommodation , as I have hitherto told you , that I cannot regard it un- der that character ^ fo, I hope, the infmuation that this 494- Thefevcnth Dialogue this pretenfe may import , shall be or no moment to byafsanyto an Accomodation, in the termes of io ftated an oppoimon. Sir , miftake me not, it is not , that I lows divifion or ftudie faction • union and peace in the Lord are the earneft defire and prayer of my foul , and that not more for the manifeftation of the glorious power ofthe grace of God , in turning you from your evili wayes , then for that beautie, joy and ftrength , wherewith it is accompanied? and whereby the pleafure ofthe Lord might be fo effec- tually promoted : But while you continue impeni- tent , yea obftinat in your perjury and rebellion , vvherbyyouhaveoverturnedtheLoid's work, with the Miniftrie and Government of His Houfe , and do own that idol of Jealoufie and root ot wickedn.fs, the Supremacie , and its dependent Prelacy, wherr^y under the pretenfe of peace and order , the Kingdome of our Lord , afwell over Confciences , as in his Church 5 isbornedown, prophanity , popery , nay Atheifme and all wickedneis connived at, and noth- ing become more odious and perfecute, then acon- lcientious acknowledgement ofthe moft High , not proftitute to mens lufts & devices ; While, I fay, you areftill fuch, what fellowship hath righteoufnefs with unrighteoufnefs? & what communion hath light with- darknefs? And what concord hath Chrift with Belial? Or what part hath he that keepcth Covenant with him that avowedly breaketh it t Ifthefe be fchifma- tical infinuations , we are very willing to be accoun- ted fuch, and do heartily imbrace the reproach: nay, if I should tell you , that fuch are the nature and circumftances ofthe prefent defection , that it doth not only enjoyne a neceflane feparation from your pretended and corrupt Ecclefiaftick Courts , for evit- ing the fin that attends a conjunction ; but alfo a wit- neifins Anfwered. 495 netting &: withdrawing to teftify againft backfiiders, I might as eafily evince it both from Scripture-precept and example. But, may be 1 am too prompt • if the termes that you are about to offer be as fair as is pro- mifed j that is , at can be demanded by any rational per~ fon , no doubt they will farifrieall our fcruples. And therefore wishing that the event may redar- gue this apparent anticipation, Igoe on to your fol- lowing promife, viz. togiveyour N C at next meeting a juH prof peel of the ft ate of the ancient Church , and you doubt )iot to convince him that their frame was better futed for promoting the ends of Religion , then ever Prebyterie could be. Sir, your performance is expected, and for your encouragement, I am free to tell you, that though the improbabilitie of the undertaking may ppriibly give the world a difappointment, yet it will be no furpnfe. It is not the fiift promife that you have failed ifbupon more unaccountable reafons:Mw« while , you forbid us , to abufe our Sovereign's royal gnodrnffc , nor the tendcrmffe oj thefe he fets over us. But this, in my opinion, is a fuperfluous caution; the Pr lats hive takenafurercourfeto prevent your fears; for fuch hath been their care to fecure this goodnefle and tendernefle from our abufe , that hitherto they have thought fit to keep it without our reach. I know this will appear a hard reflection to fome of your party, who would have even the common art eftem-rdhisMajefties, and us to breath it by his in- dulgence : But a flattering mouth worketh ruine , and theLord frail cut off all flatteringlips. Wedefpife not his Mc'jefties favour , nay , we defire and long for it that :i may come down like raine upon the mowen grafte : But while there is fo great a short-coming m the things , which are right in the eyes of the Lord , and righteous toward his fervants, why should flat- teries deceive ? And 496 The feventh Dialogue A nd thus we are come to your Concluiion of Pray- ers for and exhortation to peace , love , and charity ; a very expedient one to io bad a caufe, fo badly mana- ged : your rebellion againft God , your usurpation againft our Lord Je'us Chrift, the wrongs done to his Chtirch and People , by which your Prelatshave got into the chair, and m compliance wherewith you your felf do at leaft rind eafe , If th y cannot be men- tioned by realon , yet may in a manner be fecured by peace. And 3 no doubt, the love and charity, which you crave would go a great length. I will not fay with Jehu, what have vou to do with f tacti But there is no peace to the wicked , faith my God ; And that ought to be unto you of more moment, then if Jehu , with all his fury and forces, were at your heels. But you are of that number , who would have peace though you walk in the imagination of your own hearts; nay , you feduce this people, and heal their hurt (lightly , by faying peace, where there is no peace : But if you had flood in the counfel o the Lord , and had I count them mine enemies. Neither are Anfwered. ' 497 are thefc the wordsof one only under the old difpen- fation, which elfwhere youarepleafed to terme, more carnal andficric. He who wished that they were eveo cut off, who troubled the Church , appeareth to be of the fame Spirit. Nay, God who is love , and perfect in goodnefTe to all his creatures > is neverthe- lelfea consuming tire unto his adverfaries. And our Lord Jefus , who came in IowlineiTe and meekneffe to feek Tinners and dye for enemies , enjoyning love as a badge, and legating peace as his proper bleilirig to all his followers ,doth notwithftanding pronounce many a fad wo unto the hypocritical, proud, covetous &ina word (if 3sshamlefly irreligious )PrelatickPha- rifee. Let us therefore , above all things , in the firft place contendfor the love of God , and to be found , and to abide therein : This once purging our hearts from dividing and diftrafting lulls , will only happily cement us by its own bond. But if you con- tinue your oppolicion againft God , perverfion of his righteous wayes , and peifecution of his Saints , you do in vain prctea d to that peace , which is the Saints their priviledge, and without which , outward peace is no better then one of thefefnares that the Lord rain- eth upon the wicked. Your next wish is for charity, and O | that it mighc be both your and our bleffing, in its full extent; cha- rity not rejoycing in iniquity, but rejoycing in the truth, would quickly produce a deHreable Accom- modation,but this is not the charity which you ftudy • 'tis like a charity tbinkjngm will of your evil doings , beleeSwg ally our impofings , enduring all your ufur- pations , and bearing all your rigours, would pleaie you well. And at this rate the moil violent irreligious perfecutor would become your concurrent. But we have not fo learned Chrift . It is a very eafie and advan- I i tasious 49S l The feventh Dialogue tagious thing, tomenpofleftoftheir defiresto wish for fecurity in the peace , love , and charity even of their adverfaries. And yet we are not fo short of re- memberance as to believe that this was alwayes , the language of your partie. At firft k was , makeachaine the land is full of bloodie crimes ? and the city is full of vi- olence , and your cry was, rafe it ? raft it > even to the foundation. And when after much crueltie and blood your Prelats would fcarce by the reftraint of more iafe counfel be taken off their ea^er purfuites , how hardly are they prevailed upon ? even by their ownintereft, to teach this doctrine of peace K It is not many weeks fince the chief of your Fathers , as you terme them , preaching before the King's Com- miilioner and many members of Parliament on that Text 3 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, told his hearers ? in the very entrie , that the particular rules of mutual forbearance and tendernefTe, given in thatScripture by the Apoftle > were only con- venient for the then ftate of that Church wanting a Chriftian Ivlagiftrate : But now there being a Chi lf- tian Magiftrat v his authoritie should quiet all fcru- ples j and might not be demurred by thefe pretenfes : and going on to show that the only way to ptace , is to allow to the King not only an outward coercive power5 but alfo an inward 3 directive 3 architecktn. nick 3 uncontrollable power (O fear the Lord all ye his Saints) over confeience , in the matters oi. Wor- ship , with much ado, as eye and ear witnefTes do at- teft 5 he ftammered through a part of the fli ft chapcer of anew Piece, entituled a Difcours of EccUfiafJeal policie. And thus, he delivered to us the very fan.c doctrine of peace , which 5 infeveral places of your Dialogues 3 you do very plainly holdout. Whether or not then it be in the fame principle? and for the fame Anfwcrcd. 499 fame end, that ye do here pray tor peace, love and charity, let men judge. For our pirt, your power, ri- ches , and dignities (in themfelves , to fay the truth, the very meetult or theie trifles) are by us neither coveted nor envied. Our fouls delireand earneft pray- er to God, both in your and our own behalfe, is that God would open our eyes, turne back our hearts, heal our backflidings, andrcftore unto us his Gofpel and blefled Ordinances in power and purity. O turne us again Lord God ofbojh , caufe thvface tofcine and we frail be laved , then shall Glory dwell in our Land, mercy and truth meet , and rigbteoufneffe and truth kjjfe each other , then should the work of the Lord appear unto his fervants , and the beauty of the Lord our God, even peace, unity and love be upon us. As for theie Scriptures wherewith you fecond your wish for peace , Were 1 not more tender in oppofmg Scnpiure to Scripture, then you are in abufing it to your own defigne , it were eafie for me to repay your admonition to love, by a more feafonable exhortation to you or repentance: But fince the very confideration of the wordsjby you cited, may rectify your mifappli- cation, my (ingle defireis, that sou had pondered or could yet ponder them. If there be therefore any conj'ola- tio;: in Chrift, ifaHy ccmortoflove,i anyfeiloufjhib of the Spirit , if any bowels and mrtks , let us fulfil the Lords joy , that we be rirft or i found minde , & then like min- d:d, having the fame hvet being of one accord , of one minde. Let nothing be done, through Rrije or vain glory (a shore difcharge ofall the pride s perfection and pompeofyour prelatick orderj but, in lotvti- neffeoj minde, let each eHe erne others better then them" felves. Who is a wife man and endued' with knowledge ngus • let himfho* out of a good conversion his » Work} with mceknejfe of tvifdome. But if you 'have inter ii Z zeal 5oo The feventh Dialogue \eal, or envying ('For feeing that z»a<$- , wanting this adjunct , fignirieth alfo en-vie , without the leaft re- flexion upon that holy zeal of God's houie which is laid to eat up even the pattern of meeknefs & Prince of peace, your poor cricicifme , in altering the tran- flation , shewes more of your malice then your learning) and firife in your hearts , glory not > and lye not)againfl the truth ( zfaanf tst be Zealous there fore and repent of your perjurie and Covenant breaking ) this wifdome defcendeth not from above , but is earthly fenfual and devilifh >3 for where ^eal or envy- ing (The word is indeed ftill the fame , and fo is your folly in this remarke) and firife is , there ts confufion and every evill work. But the tvtf dome that is from above is fir ft pure , then peaceable (not rlrft peaceable and then impure , as that of your partie is) Gentle and eafie to be entreated, full ofmercie and good fruits , with- out partiality , and without h\pocrtfie (O deferable quality) And the fruit of right eoufne fie is fowen in peace of them that make peace. Let us put on therefore {as the eleB of God , holy and beloved) bowels oj mercies , hind- nefie , humblenejfe of minde, meeknefie , long-fuffering , forbearing one another and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel againft any, even as Chrifi forgave us, fo let us do • and above all things put on charity which is the bondofpcrfetlnefs. xAridlet the peace of God rule in our hearts, to the which alfo we are called in one body , and let us be thanhJulL Let the word of Chrifi dwell in us richly , in all wifdome, teaching and admo?iif]vng one an- other in Pfalmes and Hymns and Spiritual fongs , finging with grace in our hearts to the Lord , and whatfoever we do in word or deed ( pray obferve this fundamental direction ) Let us do all in the name of the Lord Jefus (What shall we then fay to thefe who in the Bond to the Publict Peace would not admit the name of Anfwercd. 501 of the Lord to be mentioned] Giving thinks to God andtheEatherby him. In all this 1 wish we were fincerily agreed. [And that thefe words were more deeply infixed in ourmindes , for Iconjcfe lam wearif of vain j anglings > as much as you are , and do long for truth and peace? as much as you do for your much courted peace ; and indeed there is nothing that doth fo much portend the Lords difplcafure and imminent wrath as that not any pleadeth for truth ; they truft in vanity and fpeakftes , they conceive mi f chief y and bring forth ini- quitie , they hatch cocl^itrice eggs , and weave the fpiders web , he that eatcth of their eggs dieth 5 and that which is crujhed breaketh out into a viper $ their works are works of iniquitie , and the at~i of violence is in their band \ they do much love outward peace , but the way of peace thev know not , and there is no judgement in their goings > t hey have made them crooked Pathes , whofoever goeth therein f]-! all not know peace. Therefore is judgement far from us \ and ju (lice doth not overtake us* we waite for light , but beheld obfeurity , for brightnefs , bot we wdkjn darkpefs '}forourtranfgrefJlons are multiplied be- fore thee , and our fins tcftifie againfi us ; for our tranf- grefiojis are with us , and as for our iniquities we kjiow them , in tranfgr effing and lying againfi the Lord and de- parting away from our God , fpeakjng oppre/Jion and re- volt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falf- bood , and judgement is turned away backward , and juf- tice ftandeth afar off ; for truth is fallen in the finer , and cquitv cannot enter, yea truth faileth , and he that de. partethfrom evillmaketh himfelj a prey. Whether you or your N. C. account thefe words to proceed from a fretted minde , or not s J know not ; furc I am there is that truth in rhem that though David's wished for wings may better fait your defire of reft, yet J is at beft but a continuation of your delufion , I shall not fay de- ceit, fuited to your great deligne of preferring peace, to truth, andrraiming Religion to your own accom- modation. And truly in order to that end, the ad* vantages of a ferene indifTerencie and placide compli- ance, refolving all difficulties by the conveniencie of eafe , and not driving in any cafe againft the Au- thority and commands of fuch, on whom our out- ward peace depends , can not be denyed. But feing it is the great work of Religion , firft to open the eyes, and to tame from darkjiefl unto tight, and from the po- wer of Satan unto God , that we may receive forgiveneffe of fins y and inheritance among them- which are [anflijted bv faith , an.4, in thefe excellent graces true peace and full joy, let him who would have a minde truly ferene, and not only a placide temper, but a tranquill and jovful confeience , ftudie and walk in this light , dis- covering and abhorring every evill way, and by purity and faithful neflTe, even in that which is leaft , make fure his peace , and fo shall he not ouly be qualified for , but certainly attaine unto divine convu-fe. Serenity and tranquillity of rninde, when flowing from that wifdome from above, which is firft pure then peaceable, and is the product of pure Reli- gion and undefiled, is no doubt, no other then that light wherein God dwells, and that calmnefs and weaknefs of Spirit, wherein he delights. But as for your ferene and placid Temper , which you exhibite to us , rather as preparatory > then fubfequent to Ii 4 Reli- 504 The feventh Dialogue Religion 5 I muft again tell you my feares that I find it fo little agreeable to Religion's genuine me. thode , and To very fuitable to your carnal defignes , that I greatly apprehend , that , inftead ol advancing you to trm divine converje 3 it only feduce you into afoolsparadifeof your own dreams and imaginati- ons. Whether your enfuing raptures do thence pro - ceed, I leave it to others to judge. But,furelam, were you as earneft to pray , Deliver my foul, O Lordy from lying lips 3 and jrom a deceitful tongue 3 as you would appear fenous in the following regrete of having too long dwelt among them that hate peace : You had rather choofed tofujfer afflitlion with the people > ef God 5 efteeming the reproach of Chrifl ( even « treafon and iedition) great riches ; and refpe&ing and looking for therccompenfe of the reward > the eter. ml love and peace of God , then to have taken the compendious, way of afinful compliance » for ob- taining this worlds cafe and quiet. Which I am con- fident . that holy man , whofe words you ufurpe , would have abhorred at the rate. As for the thicl^fcgs and mifts of 'contention , which you complaine of, if this lire were indeed to you a valley of tears , as you give it out , while all light and purity is almoft deftroyed by the luft and ignorance of your prelatick party , it would have been to thefe in- fernal vapors , and clouds of fmok , by which our Sun and air are darkned? and not to the juftandne- ceiTary oppofitionof afmall faithful remnant againft your apoftacy , that you had afcribed the noifomnefi which you mention. But, behold the nimblenefle, if well as the deluiion, of the mans fancy y he hath for outward eafe call away a good confeience , and preferred all along peace unto truth: All thediftur- bance he meeteth with ? is the diffent of a few faich- 1 ■ ' ". full Anfwered. 5 of full unto God ? and Itedfaft in his Covenant ; whom he and his party do therefore perfecute : This fmall innocent non-complyance he complaineth of, as if he were the moft refined and tender Saint, grieving for the wicked and rageful perfecurion of the ungodly, from which imaginary and feigned diftrefle , with the fame artifice and facility , hepretendeth that his relieff is in divine contempt -it ion , whither , as to the mount aim of God, he flieth , forfooth./br SanEluary that he may take reft. But this triumphing of your pre- emption shall be but short , the joy of the hyhocrite is but for a moment , though his excellency reach up to the heavens , and his head reach unto the clouds ; yet he flidll perifh jor every like his own dung, thev which have feen him Jhall fay , where is he , he fhatt fly away as a dream , and be chafed away as a vifion of the night: for who, Lord, fliall dwell in thy hoU hill , and who Jhall afcend unto the hill of the Lord , and who jh all ft and in his holy place ? he that walketh uprightly and workjth right eoufnejfe , and Jpeaketh the truth in his heart ; he thatbackbiteth not with his tongue, nor doth evill to his neighbour , r.or taketh up a reproach againfthis neighbour, in whofe eves a vile p erf on is contemned , but he honour eth them that fear the Lord , he that f wear eth to his own hurt and changeth not \ he that hath clean hands , and a pure heart , who hath not lijt vp his foul unto vanity , nor {worn deceitfully , he frail receive the ble/Jing from the Lord , and right eoufneffe from the God of his Salvation. If therefore your pretentions befuchasyou profelfe , you mud not overlookethe way that God himfelfe hathdefigned , but walk in it with fear. Your vain phantaftick foarings will noc carryyou,eitherover,orbyit.Nayin the end they will prove a lie , and tumble you into deftru&ion : For what is the hope of the Hypocrite when he hath gain- ed , when God taketh away his foul ? Ii 5 Think 506 TheTeventh Dialogue Think not chat thefe things are from ill nature , and fpoken in bitternefs ; Nay , Sir , 1 may very fe- rioufly proteft , that when I reflect on your laxe and unfound principles, not only in the matters of Go- vernment and Worship , but even in the head of jufii- .fication , and feveral other parts , that you have given me occaGon to touch, with your enmity and re- proaches againft the work of God , and the King- dome >. Miniftry and Ordinances of our Lord Jefus Chrift, and how, on the other hand, you endea- vour to shreud your feif under the high pretenfes of peace , love > charity , and devotion , wholly hea- venly, I can fcarce refrain from trembling, in the thoughts of fuch deep and abufive hypocrifie . And therefore though you should fcorn my companion , yet will I not forbear to give you my b.ft advice. You feem to have the forme of knowledge , and of the truth in the word . Nay thou makeft thy boaft of God , and divine contemplation , thefecretof Gods prefence > and the refresh full shades of the Almigh- ty , where joy unfpeakable, and the molt purefola- ces flow , appear to be your familiar retreat. But as it is too too evident that neither your principles nor practice are very fuitahle to this profelfion , nay , that there is no noife heard of this profellion , while you are buflied in ferving mens defigns , and your own fancies : And that it is only after you have ftriven to the outmoft in perfwading or contradict- ing, that you feek to evade or delude by thefe pre- tentions ; So my earneft requeft is that in place of fancie , that evaporats all your knowledge into ima- gination , faith and love may fuck down the truth into your heart , to convert you indeed unto God , and reveal in you with power his Son Iefus Chrift , that you may love the Lord with all your foul and ftrength Anfwered. 507 ftrength, and trull in him alwayes, have refpeft unto all his Commandements, and obferveall his Ordinan- ces ; then should you walk in the way fafely, and the Lord s hould be your confidence. A?W though you should be exerciled with the fame perverfe dilputings of men or corrupt mindes , the fame ftrife of tongues and perfecurion of adverfaiies, wheieof we have fo large an experiment ; yetamidft all thefe boifterous windes and tolling waves , God would be your Rock> light, joy, ftrength , and falvation for ever. Sir, this is our faith andalfoour victory, lor which, when you shall as ferioufly contend, as you do vainly pretend to outward peace and mans favour, then shall true peace, even that peace, which the World neither gives nor can take , abound unto you to eftablish you unto the end. Let us therefore fight the good fight > keep the faith and lay hold on eternal life » that we may tinish our courfe with joy 5 fo shall we receive that Qrown of RJghteouf?ieffe which the righteous Judge [hall give unto us at that day x^nd not unto us only , but unto 'all them alfo , that love hAfoppcar- ing. Even fo come Lord J e's u s. *m FINIS* i- *-' I