Ltitlkllll.W.tTTirtfr 
 
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 fO 
 
 COLLECTION OF PURITAN AND 
 ENGLISH THEOLOGICAL LITERATURE 
 
 $ 
 
 LIBRARY OF THE THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY 
 PRINCETON, NEW JERSEY 
 
 /oioo 
 
' "aTetterof ! 
 
 MANY MINISTERS 
 
 IN OLD 
 
 ENGLAND, 
 
 Rcqoefting 
 
 The judgement of their Reverend 
 Brethren in ^eTi^ England con- 
 
 cerningNinc Poficions. 
 Written Anno Dom. i 6 3 7J 
 Together with their Anfwer thereunto returned, 
 
 u-1k»o I ^ 3 p. 
 
 And the Reply made unto the (aid Anfvvcr, and lent over 
 unto them, Artrtoi6^o» 
 
 ^ 
 
 Nc'W puM idled ( by occafion mentioned in the Epiftle to 
 the Reader following in the next page,) upon thedcfire ofmany 
 godly and faithfdll Mini^krs in and about the City 
 o'i London, who lo¥£ and feekc y 
 "the truth. ., S ^ -^ 
 
 By Sir^eon A^-i ^ndJViUiam'R^t^^dfid, 
 
 lThcr.5.21. . ' 
 Prove all ihiyjgi • ■ Hol3fafi tlfat ivhich is good, 
 
 I O N D O N, 
 Printed for Thomas Vnderhtll^ at the fignc of the Bible in 
 great WocdRreet. 164^,, 
 
 ^ 
 
 <|#|>#l^J|^.|^^l:^^^#|>i4$,^i 
 
IHa^e diligently perujed this ^ply to the Jnp^er^ofthe Minijiers 
 of Ncw-Eagland, to the nine Tofttions which 1 have appro^ 
 ved^ and judge <very mcefartc^and feafonable to bee Printed ^ and 
 publtjhed, Iu!y thefifth^ t ^ 4 J- 
 
 lames Cranford 5^£Jor o/'Cbriftophers London. 
 
 ErrAt4. 
 
 PA?c\% Marg rcadT?^^ ^.l^Vneij r.^oody. p Z7-iii r.Ofaii fueChirchcs f 37-^-Jl. 
 r.parwm. p.^yi^irSikh p^9J,iC,x.q!it?!. ^ jo/.ji r.OrdinatKC. The faults cfcapcd m 
 the quotation p.5i. m fo.iicCf^pics, ihc re >dcr la dcfired to corrcifl by Bc^} dn Vy^b. p S7 ^7- 
 r/iN the fame, p 6i i is ''*Obji<f>ion. p-^t ./.i8. rwe « dirpenfed. p6^l ^ r whic^ without. 
 f 67.l.!j^*ypi^if*f», p.^7 /.J9 r.cherctorct'Jihcm, p.i8/.»8 r.v'i.hChtifl: 
 
fffffffffffffff*!'ffftfTf?f.? 
 
 mmm^nm^-m^m 
 
 To the Reader. 
 
 Aeaditi 
 
 Pon the receipt of the Anfwer returned uttto the Nine Pofitiont, 
 i ' aiicr Bali moved by the n^qucft of Brethren, drew up this re- 
 piyj U'hich upon perufall and joynt approbation, was direilcd 
 i;/ico the reverend Elders of the (everall Churches in New lE.ng^ 
 Lif^d. The Reply lent miicarrying in the hand, to which it was 
 committed, though both Letters and printed Bookes trufled in 
 the fame hand were delivered : Hereupon another Copie was 
 from^ifB' 3/f£ia»ddcCircd^ and accordins^Iy prepared m tlic yeare following. In 
 the meane time, the Anfwrr being tendered ro the Preffc^ it was judged more 
 mectc to keepe the Reply in readineffe to attend the publ,fhing of the Anfwer, then 
 <o part with it in the other way. Thi« intelligcrice was the lafl yeare conveyed in- 
 to iVif7r£»^/W.tince which time, there hatU been an cxpeft^.tion to fee that in 
 Print, which now is fent abroad to open view. By this Relation it is mmifefi who 
 are volunticrj, and who are preflcd to come forth as defendants m thefe Controver- 
 fies. Thefe differences betwixt the lovVng Brethren of old Et:gland and New, 
 had not been made thus notorious, if 'Tome who cry up the Chuich way in N'e'm 
 England as the only way of God, had nor been forward, to blow the^n abroa d in 
 the world. But furcly the provi^^ience of God is remarkcable in bringlngtherc qi^c- 
 iHons into debate at this time, when the MiniQcfS of the GofpcH from all the 
 Counties in the Kinfdomc arc CT lied together by both houfes of Parliament^ ta 
 coniult about the healing of our breaches, which ate Very many and dangerous :' 
 The Copie of this Reply being committed to our cufiodie we are ncceilitated to ap- 
 pearc in the publication of it : yet we fhall preface nothing concerning the Trea- 
 tifeKfeife,becaufe our known refpeds to the reverend and judicious Author will 
 render us prtiali,and oir ?c«iimony caft adde no credit to his works.whicS withall 
 indifferentReaders will ^kzd fufficiently for their own acceptance. If this difcourft 
 fhalladdeany difcovery of light unto them, who dcfirc a found judgement «nchc 
 controverhes here agitated, ojr end is obtained , and our prayers anfwcred, 
 who art' 
 
 Thjf Servants m And for the trmh, 
 Simeon Afli. 
 William Rathbind, 
 K % The 
 
THe Letter ofchofeMinlftcrs in Enr^land, who rrqnrfted to 
 
 know the judgement of their Brethren in Xfia? Bno^lahd^m 
 
 Kiuc p^jfiti^n*;, whcrcinthe rcar>nVof this ih:ir 
 
 rrqiicrt, aic truly rcporccd. 
 
 (Rcvercnc! and bclovfd Brcchrcn) 
 
 ^f^y^i^g Ht/eJ nv itved together in thef^mf Kgclom^ yitfr.feffsi the fame fitrth, 
 %'Y ^0k r/>^/?t?(if /"« r/j^") ms Ordinances i.b'iHredtnthe \\>:iike ^'f Gudto oahr foules 
 W. fi^tp htsk^r,gd)nse andnui'm^ryiefi tie purirte of -.^ orfkt^ againfl corrrtpti^ 
 ^ o»JS hthonthertg^H ha>ida .dj»the I ft. 9ut (tnce yr^r drp.^rtnre i/ito 
 Nc'A E gl >nd, rve h:are (afidp i^tl) he'ecv: ttjthar di?^ers 'a'/e crn'jraccd 
 CCYHtyie VJiin npiKtom Jnch asJoh dijliked formtrly and ^ve ]udgs to br grouidlcffe nnd 
 umwirrAm^Mey As that afltntedfjrme ofpr.ijer.nr^dfet Luargte is uniarvf^t'^ ; / h^t it 
 is riot la^vfti '/ to 'ojne in prajer, or to recetvf the SAC^amem% where a flmtfd Li H^'gie is 
 nfed, 5 . Tl?^ the children of godly and 4pp "oved Chrtfli m f are not ro^ ^^' riz, dj£Ji*' 
 tiilth fr parents bee fet members of fame p^rticul ir congregaiion. /^, that the Parents- 
 thcmfJv^s, thoffgh of approved fiety are not to be received to the Lords Supper. urn iU 
 T^oej bee admitted as fet members. 5. That the power of ExcommtintcAtton &c. is fo in- 
 the bodj of the ^hurch that what the m^ijor part (hafl aflow, thatmu/l- be done, tho'4gh 
 the Pafiors und Govemyrs, and part of the ffembljf be «tf another mtnde, Anipentdven^ 
 tnre upon more fuhfl-inttallreafons, 6, That none are to be admitted as fet members y 
 But th-j mtifl promrfe,not to depart, or remove unleff" the (^ongregaiton will give lea ve, 
 ^\Th4t a Aiintileritfo a Mtnifl rr to a particular Congregmonythat if they dtflt^e htm 
 mnjuTil), or Uive him, he ceafeth to be a Aiimjler, %,That a /Vftm^er cannot performe 
 ^ TmntHeriaS oH: tn another Congregation, g.That members of o>te Congregation mij 
 not. communicate in another, 
 
 Thefe. and othr fuch lik^ (which we omit to reckon up ^ are written and reported to 
 Be the Common Tenents in New. England^ which are received wtth great applanfe^ 
 maintained with great confidence. ttr^dappUuded, asThe only Church way, Tp'ierein the 
 Lord is to be w or (hipped. And letters fromNc vBnghnd have fo taken with dtvers 
 in manjtparts of this Kingdome that they have left our Affembltes becaufe of a flintcd 
 LitHrqie^ And excojnnntnicattd themfelvt^s ^rom the Lords Supper , becaufe fuch as are 
 not debased from it .. And betngturned afde themfelves they Uboftr to-enfnare other Sy 
 to thegriefeof'the godly the fcandill of Religion, the wounding of their owne fules (tf 
 they did advt fed! f.conjider the matter^ a^^d great advantage of them that are wtlj to 
 efpy and ready to make pfe of all adv. images to prejudice the truth. (^Beloved brethren) 
 rfyoH flood in cur places, we are well afp^red it wytdd be no fmall grief e unto jou^ t9 
 bearc and Tee the people led. afide to^^e difqrace of the GofpellyUponweake and ground- 
 ie[fe 'ynAffinations, an I in rafh and incovfi?rstte z^eale to deale wtth that which is of Gqdy 
 <tytfitwcreofman. Andif it bete 'U^grtefe of heart to hearc that you have changed 
 
 from. 
 
A Lertcror thclc MiniHers m ^^^torf&:c, 
 fro^// that trmh rvbirhyoH did prof effe tvtdemhr^e that for truth which i*ffr*mfrtimti 
 iipj^ ,'0^ id grounds yon dtd condem^ie as erroreOHs-, tvc ho^e ysu wtll not he offc nded. To^ 
 fi^jw ho'v vft it hath beene ohjeEied that NotJ-conformifts in praBice are Sefurattfts tn 
 he >irt hitt that th y qoe crojfeto thetr ctpv pfttiofts^ or [mother the trtithfor ftmfter e>tds» 
 They of the Sefwation boa fl that they ft and upon the Non conformifts grounds. A 
 Van oh i>H4 floHnfh ,fPtd fteight pretence. But both thefe are much couraettaneed by yonr 
 (udder chdfi^e ^fym be changed as it h reported. How jkall jour brethren bee able t$ 
 fttir.'dt'piHTfed fence of thetr innocencte and the upnghttieffe of their Can fe whenjomr 
 exAmpU a-'d opinion fh-itl be caB tn thetr d'lh? Muft they leave you noip, with whom 
 they hoive hefd fjciety ? Or iv U yon v lead for Septration, which joh have condemned 4i 
 raih and tnconft derate ? Ton k^ow that thy T»ho have run this way. havefdlen into mM^ 
 nifjddivflfons^andmay not louJHfllyfeare left- the fame befdt you} Some w^trfii'ygs 
 jott have had alrecidy^ A>.d have you not cmfe to feare every day more and more ? Err oar 
 is very frmtfdl and will fpread apace- ^ crack,? m the foundation may occapon a wide 
 breach tn the bmldmg^where there will not be mejtns\or mind to amend it, Exper tehee e» 
 ^ery day m>-ty tutour tis heretM. But to let p^fje all inconveniences, our reefuefl tn all 
 me^kp^jfe and love is, that tf thefe or any &f the fortmenttoned opinions be indeed your 
 Temnts yoi* would be p leafed to take afecond review of your grounds and fend usyottr 
 flrongeft reafonsthat have fvayed you tn thefe matters : andtf we (hall find them upon 
 due examination to be fitch as will carry weight we [hall be ready to give you the right 
 hand offc'llowfhfp ; if otherwife you (hall receive ourjufl a»d mode ft animadvcrfions in 
 tvhatwc conceive yoH have erred from the truth, Tou will not judge if we cannot af' 
 trehendth'^ ft rength of your grounds it is becaufe we love not the truth or bee carryed 
 Wtth bj*reffeEls ( tho'Hgh^hefe conceints prevatle tor- m'tch : ) Such rigtd and ha^-Jh cen* 
 fures c<mnot lodge in me ke and humble breafls. IVetqhty reafons promote the truth not 
 nuadvffed iuJg/ng*. Tou your felvd: have judged that to be trrour. which now you take 
 to be truth when yet- you were not bltndedw th by- refpeBs nor hudwtnkedyour eyes that 
 you might nor fee the light,. Andtf you have jufl warrant from God to pull dorvne what 
 you have b-ttlded^ and to build what you have pulled diwne we de pre you would lov'tngm 
 ly and'marurely impart it. for at yet we have feene none ^ whtch we are not ready to prove, 
 and ^jewhthe rule of truth to be too rveake to carry any burthen, 
 
 H^e adore with joy the fulneft'e of the Scrtpttere. and we k*fow the Counfefiofthe Lord 
 fhall l^and ': if you c tn (hew that you walke tn thewajesof God we fhall heartily rejoyce 
 to wa^kf with yoH : but tf you have turned afide. wefhallearneFtlydepre that you would 
 be pli^afedfermtfly to coTipddT the matter i and fpeedtly reformer what ts out of order. 
 Thus not doubting of your favourable interpretation of this our-motton^for the. prevent^ 
 ing ofdiflraEhion- m.dntenance of peacd and fearching out of the truths whereby we may 
 be dtreShedtoliveto theprdife of God: the good ofhispeople, and comfort of'ourfculeSy 
 befeechingGod to lead and guide us into all truth andhohneffe, and keepe us bUmeleffe 
 tmttll his glorious appearance, we reft 
 
 Your loving Brethren. 
 
4^1^ 4^ 4ij^ 
 
 An Epiftle written by the Eldt^rs of the Churches in N e w- 
 England, to thof^ godly Miniftcrs fore- mentioned 
 chatfenc over th:^ Polidons. 
 
 Reverend and helovei] BrethreK: 
 
 [N thcfe remote Coafts of the earch, whcreunco tlie good hand of God 
 hath brought us, as wc doc wi:h niudi coir/ort of heart call to rriind the 
 many gracious bleffings, which both with you. and hom you, vvc injoy- 
 ed in our Chriftian and holy coiniriunion, (ihc mc;nory and fruit whereof 
 vve hope [>.ali never be blotted out j fo we hive alio feen caufe to looke back to our 
 f^rrmcr ad'i.iniriraijons there, and to fcarch and trie oi:r waycs; diat wherein ice-- 
 vcr wc have formerly gone aHravAVC might judge our ielves for it before the Lorti : 
 And that feeing now God hath fct before us an open doore of libenie, wee luight 
 neither abufc our iibertie m the GolpeL to runncout into any groundleffe unwar- 
 rantabJc courfes, nor negle^ the preicnc opp orcuni:ic to adminifterC by the hclpc of 
 Chrift ) 3Jl the holy ordinances of God, according to the patternc fct befort us in 
 the ScriptiirC ; I^ our native Countrcy, when wc were firft called to the Mini^cry, 
 many of us tookt' fo'Tic things to be indifferent and lawfull, which in after-times wc 
 faw to be finfull^ and durft not continue in the pra6life of them there ; Afterwards 
 fomc things that we bar'? as bunheiiS, that is, as things inexpedient- though not ut- 
 terly unlawfull; wc have no caufe to retain aad pra6li(c the fame things hcrc,which 
 would not have been not oneiyincxpcdicnt, but unlawfull: fuch things as a man 
 may rolicratc when he cannot remove them, hee cannot tolleratc without (innc> 
 wlicn he may remove them ;Bdixdesfome things we praaifed there (which wcc 
 Ibeak to our rtiamc and gricfe) which we never took into (crious confideration whc- 
 rhcr they were Ia\A full, and expedient or no, but took them for granted, and gene- 
 rally received ; noton<Sy by rhe moft Reformed Churches, but by the moft godly 
 and judicious fcrvants of God aoiongft them ; which ncvcrthelcffc w hen we cam^ 
 to rvcio'ri them in the ball^nce of the San^uarie. wc could not find fuflRcient war, 
 rantin'^rhe Word co receive them, and eftablifh them here ; of one of thefe thrc^ 
 kin(is wdl thefe our prefent praaifcs appcare to be, which yon call our new opini^ 
 on-S or, Innovations here ; except it be (onie few of them, which though they hav^^ 
 been reported to you to be oui Judgements and prafliics, yet arc indeed fitrcfrom 
 
 us: 
 
ThcEfifih. 
 
 us : Tiic particulars arc too many, and coo wcightic to give you account of cliein, 
 and the ground of our proceedings about them in n Letter. But to give you C if ti be 
 the will of God ) the better faiisfiilion, we have (en- you a Qi^rc Treatiic c niching 
 each parciciihr> that according to your defirc you might und-'diand from ns ho .v 
 farre we do acknowledge any of thcle ccnencs,and upon wh^.c ground hoping rhat 
 according to your pro;nifc, if upon due examination you fhi'l find my weight in 
 them, you will give us the right hand of fellow Hit p. B Jt ifo-hcrwife yo i wi!l fend 
 us your jiift and fiithfull ani nadverfions, and we doc not furxrc^ your loves ro i\\z 
 truth, or your finccrc fpeaking according to your conscience in the fi^'ht of God. 
 Neither raxe wc you as fiding fro'ii the truth with by-relle^h, whereof yon com- 
 phin,yerily wcabhorrc fuch rafh^harfh* and prefumptuo u iiororioufnen'e, we fee 
 as much caufc to fufpefl the integritie of our own heart'-r^syour.^ ; and fo mr.ch clie 
 more, as being more privie to the deceiLfuine(rc of our own hearts then- to yo'uw* 
 And we cannot but with much thankfulnclTc of heart acknovA'Ic.lgc the many rich 
 precious trea fu res of his grace, wherewith the Lord hath famifhi'd lun^iric cf yoj 
 above your Brethren, which cauf-th us with great reverence to accc^x, and receive 
 wh^tfiirther light God may be pleafcd to impart unu) iis by you ; But as wc have 
 beleevedj fo have wc hitherto praflifrd, and (o have mod of us fpoken thi* our 
 Anfwcr to your particulars, moH: of us we mny fiy, becaufe diere wants not (oir\t 
 Brethren amongft us who proceed further, even to looke at all let for;Tics of Prayer 
 invented by men of another age or congregation, and preicribcd to t'lcir Brethren 
 to be read out of a book for the prayers ofthc Cburch, as L jng-s^ or Lnagi nations 
 ofmen, forbidden in the fccond Comma ndemcnt ; But as wc Lave then to their 
 libcrtic of their own jidgc nelly's with?t5t prejudice, fodo we alfo Concurrc with 
 the reft of them, (o firrc as we all g^^t in bearing wicnefl^ agiin(l any fct forfnes. or 
 thccorruption.«inthcm; In dirpatchingwhereofwc have been rhcmxe flo'Ar bc- 
 caufe ic behoved us firft to inqidre into, and to fcctic fomc c-ntroveriles among^ 
 our felvCi, before we could well attend t ? entcrtaibc dikojrfe aboJt. forraignc que- 
 (lions which do not fo ncerely conccrne our prefcnt c^are and prai^if*. Befides 
 your Letters being fent to the^ipiics ofthc Churches, and fomc of us dwelling 
 farre ailnider, it was nof ail, cafic thing for a;l of us often to meet together to con('.- 
 dcr of thefe Q^ucflions ivuch icffc to refolvc i:pcn one jnf> nnf-^er. B'Jt having at 
 length ( by rl-c a(Ti iincc f^f Gorj ) bro !gh: our Anfwc s to this ilTie, wc cournend 
 ittotheblet^^ngoftheLr.rd and in him toyoarC^^ridiin, ml j-idicioirs confi'le- 
 ration ; where if til thing:; he? fofji^d fafe, and d-iely warranted fom Scri->cnrc 
 grounds ; doycni alfo as fef^ eth vigil ^inc Watchmen of the Lords flock nnd t.)<*h- 
 full witn({rcs to God ; If ?nv dnng fccme doubcf ill to you, conlider and weiol^: it 
 very well bef^>re von rqe.4 i-^ : If any thing appearc to be unfound. and difH^nant 
 from the Word C which Wv fox our parts cannQi difccrne) vvc ihall willingly attend 
 
 to 
 
to what furcher light God may fend unto us by you : In the incanc ^vhiIe wee in- 
 treat you in chc LorJ,not to fuffcr fuch apprchcnfions to lodge in your minds, 
 which you inrimare in youi tetters ; As if wc here juilificd chc wayes of riged Re- 
 paration, which (bnictiuies amongft you vvc have f-ormcrly boinc witnefle again^l.- 
 and lo build againc th?i things wc have dertroycd ; you know they leparatc from 
 your Congregations, as no Churches ; from the Ordinances difpLnfcd by you as 
 meerc AntichriRian, and fiom.your lelves as no \ifiblc Chriftians. But wee pro- 
 fefTeunfaincdly, we feparatcfrom tke corruptions which wc conceive to be left in 
 yoi r Churches, and from fuch Ordinances admini^red therein ks we fearearc not 
 of God but of men ; And for your (elves, we arc Co farrc from feparating as from no 
 vifible Chrirtians, as thatyjou are under God in our hearts ( if the Lord would 
 luffcr it ) to live and die together ; and we lookc at fundrie of you as men of that 
 eminent growth in Chrirtianitiejthatif there be any vifible Chiirtians under hea- 
 ven, amongd you nre the men, which for thefc many yccres have been written ia 
 your foreheads ( Hoiingffetothe Lord) which we fpeake not to prejudice any truth 
 which our felves are here taught and called to profdfe, but wc fiill beleeve tho'igh 
 perfonall Chriftians may be eminent in 'heir growdi of Chri^ianitie : yet Chur- 
 ches had Hill need to grow from apparent dcfe«::l:s to puritic ; and fron reformation 
 to Reformation, age after age, till the Lord have utterly aboliflied Anrichrift with 
 the breath of his mouth, and the brightnefTe of his comming to the full and clearc 
 revelation ofall his holy Truth ; efpecially touching the ordering of his houfe and 
 publick worfhip; asapledgeofthisour eftimation of you, and finccrc afFcclioa 
 to you, we have fent you thcfe Anfwers to your demand^ and fhall be readie by the 
 help of Chrifl, to reccirc back againe from you, wife, and j'u.l, and holy Adver- 
 tifcments in the Lord. 
 
 Now the Lord God, and Father of our Lord Jefus Chrirt, your Lord ?nd oursj 
 kad us all unto all Truths. purge out all Leaven out of his Churches, and kecpc us 
 blamelelTc and harmlcflc in his holy Faith and fcarc, to his heavenly kingdomc, 
 through him that haih loved US; In whom wc reft, 
 
 TpHr very lovmg Trethreft, the Elders 
 
 of the Churches /* Ne w-E ngland . 
 
 (2(fVere?a4 
 
ftffftfffffffffftffffffffs 
 
 Ic is nuly cbr?rv?d 
 by Mad r D^-^vcn- 
 pnrt cut o? .^f/'bi-if. 
 Ofji: l\ c I Etqian- 
 turn hbct qu •fquc pi o- 
 fccent, mm) cU qui 
 dy'cai mn indge^i 
 dm Tt.k, Ap^i^U. 
 Preface to tlic Rea- 
 der. 
 
 1 q|><|)i|^^{^4^^^4^<&$^^^^^l^^^^^^^<^ 
 
 ^yerend and dearelj heloyed brethren, 
 
 T is nor to be doubted but while we live here , we (hill have 
 jui{ c^vi(c to /earch and try our ways , look back upon for- 
 mer courfes and cd\ thinfrs done to more Rdct examination- 
 For beina over- clouded with ignorance, 
 conipailccl about with infirmities > and 
 befcc with many tem[titions to finncj 
 knowing what we know beft, but darkly 
 and in part, no marvell ^ if in many 
 things we offend ignorandy, of frailty 
 for want of dae confidcration, ralKly miilaking Errour for 
 Truth, condemning Truth for Errour , fufpefling evill without 
 cau(c> andnor fufpeciing-whereis jufl: reafon _, drawing erro- 
 nio'.]s conclulicns from found principles , and maintaining 
 truths upon weak grounds ; fo that in examination of our wayes ^ and cndcvours 
 of their Reformation wee had need to looke warily , that wee turn not to the right 
 hand or to the left, for in the one we add to the Word of God , as well as in the o- 
 other, and of our Cdvcs arc apt to ftrike afide to both. A loofc conlciencc will be 
 profane, a tender/crupulous. Ic Rands us therefore upon to have ourfcJves in fufpi- 
 tioti, in as much as experience tea cheth that many have fwerved from the path of 
 found peace and comfort on each hmd. 
 
 Wherefore (Beloved "Brethren) if fince your comm.mg into ^ew EngUyidy upon 
 /erious Review of former a(5lions you have diicovered any truths heretofore net ta- 
 ken notice of we fliaj be fo far from rejef^ing them bccai'ie of your former judgment 
 and pra6tice,that we fhall heartily defire to know and imbrace the fame with you, 
 and bleffe God for you as the happy in f^ rumen ts of his glory, our In^ ration & the 
 advancementofthe truth. But if the diicovcrics be of the like nature wath the po/iti- 
 ons mentioned in the Letter; as beforcfo ft ill, we conceive them to be new opinion s> 
 and not warranted by Scripture, which is the true Antiquity. 
 
 Opinions we fay^ not praflices^ for notcHangmg your opinion, you might law- 
 hWy alter your praiflice \ nay, wh?.t you did tolerate formerly as a burthen, in cafe 
 
 a not 
 
not free, you miglic well forgoc being at your Jibcrcy. Your judgCfiicnc Iwing the 
 fame, you mighc ufc your liberty in forbearance of a let Licurgic, and ycc rctainc t\)C 
 famejiidgcmcncof a ffintcd Licnrgic, that yo^ had bc^^rc; you might forbcarc 
 for a time upon fpccbll Rcaibn ( fiich as prdcnt (htc and occafion might i'i'ggcfi) 
 to receive to the Sacrament' approved ChriHians , not let mcTilws' of a pat* 
 ticular Congregation; as Ibmc Brethren do) who yet dare not think it unlavvfuJl to 
 cominnnicatc with fiich in the av^> of worfliip, or deem ic jail and right akogcthcr 
 to debar them, as having no right nor title to thofc priviltciges of the Church. 
 Tt is yruroninions whereto uc had rcfpefb^not fimply your praflicc. It never en- 
 r.rcd into us.to pcrAvadc you to a fee Liturgy, much k{fe to complain that you 
 had not a^cptcd ours. But that all l-tinted Liturgies Hiould be condemned as devi- 
 led vvorHiip, and \o condemned as that none may lawfully be prcd'nt at, or pertakc 
 of the Sacraircnts adminidrcd in a ilintcd or deviled fonne , this v\'ee c:Llkd a new 
 opinion. 
 
 NcicliCr do \vc mention it bccaufe we knew ic to be the private opinion of fbme 
 Brethren among you, whom wc had left to diC liberty of their owne judgment, fb 
 far as the maintenance of the Truth, and a juft call did not ingagc us ; but bccaule 
 ic was cryed up, and advanced with all diligence , and endeavour of fomc among 
 lis Ihnding affected Neiv Ena^Lmd- ward, as if a chief point of holineffe confined in 
 Icparation. You know how great a fire a litde fparklc kindles. And feeing this 
 Didraclion and Rent had its originall, growth and continuance from fbmc Bre- 
 thren in diofe parts , or affeilcd to that way , when in loving and friendly manner 
 wc could neither receive grounds at home for our convidion, nor procure jwfl fatif- 
 t'lilion tod iC contrary ; what could wee doe Icfle then call upon you joyntly to 
 know your judgment, and cidier by found proof to be by you Convinced (if happi- 
 ly you fliould approve their leparation Cwhich WTefleem groundlefTc, rafii, unlaw- 
 fiilh and prejudicial! to outward peace) or being backed by a teflimony of its dif- 
 likc from you, we might the better be both incouraged, and furniilied to cndevou;- 
 t lie quenching of diat fire which was kindled but in too many places, 
 
 In other perciculars alfo , wee conceive , you goc beyond Commiflfion given of 
 God : granting them authority to whom God hath not committed it , debarring 
 ot?iersfrom thepriviledgeof the Sacraments, who have title thereto by the Cove- 
 nant of grace. 
 
 Your love in that you were pleafed to /ignific firft your kinde and refjiedlive ac- 
 ceptance of our Letter, and now alfo to knd us an anfwer thereto, wc acknowledge 
 it with all thankfulneffe, and Hiallendevour (through the grace of God) to return 
 like nffc^lion in truth of heart, if in mcafure we fall Chore. Of your rcfpci^ to us in 
 jjarticular^ wemakc noqucflion.youi-exprcflionsarcbeyond that we could expcifl, 
 as alfo v/hat wc dare own. But vve humbly bcfecch the Lord to dirctflj uphold, and 
 
 gaidc 
 
guide us, thatm fi^mc meallirc wc may walk worthy of our vocztion, and npprorc 
 i^ur fcivcs faithfiiJi to your confdcnccs. 
 
 Ic was one end of our wricing to be fatisficd in this point, whether you approve 
 the ways of Separation (whereof wee complain) and their courfcs who laboured 
 Wiih all their might, (when they conceived hope to be heard)to pafwadc dierunto, 
 Agsinrt which (if we knew your judgment*) yon tcHificd among us. 
 
 You know they that ieparatc are not ail of one flraine and temper. Some deny 
 all communion with uspublick and private, fome admit of private , but deny all 
 publick, and feme joynein Prayer before, and after Sermon . as alio preaching of 
 the Word (bccaufc in their cfteemc , this may*be done without communion in a 
 .Church- way) but rcfufc to partake of the Sacraments. All which Separations wee 
 judge uncharitable, contrary to the Commandcment of Chrift , and have ever 
 thought that you (whilft with us) and we were of one mind'c herein. 
 
 It of late wehave conceived fears of ibmcof you (deerc Brethren) as leaning too 
 much to what formerly you didiked, we befecch you weigh what urgent and prcf- 
 fingReafons forced us thereunto, and we fliall moft gladly ("wee heartily del^re yoii 
 to refl afluredj lay hold of every line and fyllablc , that may tend to diflodge fuch 
 apprehenfions. 
 
 For as we conceive, the difpute to be unrcafonably moved , the Rent ofFcnfive^ 
 the opinions themfelves prejudicial! to the caufc of God , and the advancers thereof 
 to have pafled the limits prefcribed by God ; f© wee fhall efteem it an incfiimablc 
 blelfuigj if ("now what hinders being removed) wee mi^ht joyn with one heart and 
 foule^ in one way of God to promote his glory , and ieek the good of his Church 
 and people. 
 
 We truft in the Lord, we jfhould not draw back in any courfc wherein wee may^ 
 fee the Lord going before us, nor be an offence to any to keep the Lords way ; wee 
 feck the truth, and are perfwaded it is the caufe of God which we defend : we plead 
 for Communion with the Churches of Chrirt, no further then they hold communi- 
 on with Chriftj ftill defiring to i^epe the umy ef the fpirit in the ho'^d of peace^ with 
 yoHY [elves and all others , who walkc in the riglit way of truth , peace and 
 comfort. 
 
 How the Lord may be plcafed to deale with us , or dlfpcfc of us wee know not 
 (his bleffed will be done.) But of this we are refblved, through his grace, net wil- 
 lingly to raife trouble or diffention among you , if through ignorance or infirmity 
 w^c rhall no: fo fall in, as to be of one minde with you in thcfe matters. hwA here 
 we deflrc you to confider that in thefe particulars you diffent as much one from, an- 
 other as we difTcntfrom you , and that wherein we diffent from you f and perhaps 
 from the leffer part of you) you diffent from the Judgement and praflice of all Re- 
 formed Churches. 
 
 This 
 
Were !■.< t iMc ncnCr^'ih Cam ai,>i\i\ /?o- ' This wcc fpcake not to prejudice your 
 
 h.n ) finciftifioufly adiii^cd lo ihcT new caufe, but to incrcac your ierious rc-cxa- 
 
 i^cviV, »h:t hcwarcho^to f' ) :^";/|^- "\^- itiination of what \0-i have fcnc us , ^nl 
 
 aun.nd tru^eCburcht;. Scay againft ftrny- this tryall thereof, by the TouchiWof 
 ,j-.g,p,,^^7. ^ ihcWord. For jf wennltakcnot, inmi- 
 lamanaQiallbialw^ysrv-ncy og-vall ny things it will not abide the Tcft. 
 c^u^rdp-Atoiho'-cgooa cuftomcs orC.r.ur- Yqu have wric:en in great love and 
 t:i':^'^X7^'^^<^^'^^ tendernefle,chatyourPoruio„s„.ightbe 
 GcisVrpl** i-V.A^ P 51* io fcanned, and wee null endeavour with 
 
 C^ocntrienia'r/ upo\ the fojrth Chapter of your leave, wee (liall endeavour to deale 
 ;o^»',;.D.^pfliS<;<5?.i4.EJfiw»^. p. Mi. fuHy and plainly :as the nature of the cau ft 
 
 requircth , i"ntreating you impartially to 
 confidcr the ^rounds whereupon we, go and weigh what wee fhall fay in the bal- 
 lance of the Sanauary. The Lord ot his rich incrcy in Jefus Chria , diredl us in 
 difcerning what is right and pleafing in his fight , Cafl offences out of the Church, 
 clofe up Rents and Divifions, reveal his Truth more and more/ct up and mayntain 
 the purity of his own Ordinances, unite the hearts of his people to the lo\^e 
 ' and fcare of his holy Name, teach us felf-deniall, and keep 
 
 us blameleffe to the comming of the 
 Lord Jefus Chnft. 
 Amen, 
 
I POSITION. 
 That afiinted forme of f ray erand^fetUturgte is mUipfuU. 
 
 Eforc wc proceed to declare our fclvcs concerning this pofitioft : It 
 will be need/ull that foire thing be prcmifed , for the explication 
 of the terms thereof. Wc fuppole, 
 
 X By a Liturgy and forme of Prayer^ you mean not a fbrinc of 
 private Prayers compofed for the helpc and dire£lion of weaker 
 ChriRians : but the Sjijltm or body of publike Prayers generally 
 ufed in the Englifli Pari^es , compiled for the Churches uf« by other men not in- 
 fallibly guided by God, to be faid or read out of a Book by their Miniftf rs as the 
 Churches Prayers. And that this is your meaning, may appearc from your Letter 
 it felf, wherein ycU complain that divers in many parts of that Kingdome have 
 left their Affemblies, becaufe of a tinted Liturgy. Now wc know not of any other 
 ftinted Liturgy from which the people do abfent thcmfclves , but onely that which 
 IS in ufc in the Englifh Churches. 
 
 For as for a forme of Prayer in generally wee conceive ycur meaning cannot be 
 of that. For it is evident that many Preachers conftantly ufc one let form of Pray- 
 er of their own making before their Sermons , with whom the people refufc not to 
 joyn. ..'7 Jionj:'. , 
 
 2 By ftinted and fet, you mcan'/iichPraycrs,as arc 0^ impoferf upon the Chur- 
 ches and;Minifters, as that they arc limited to that very form of words exprefTed in 
 tke Book without addkion, diminution, or alteration • for that Lituigy and forme 
 among you, is in this fenfe fet and ftinted. 
 
 5 By unlawfiill, you mean that we looking at that form , w fwerving from the 
 Rule ; neither dare firR pradlice it our (dyts, nor (econdly approve the ufc of it by 
 others. 
 
 This being the true ftate of the queftion,fo far as it appears to u$/rom the letter. 
 Wc anfwer , i For our own prafticc , the Churches here doc not ufc any Hinted 
 forme of Prayer and fet Liturgy, for thefe and other fuch Reafbns. i Becaufe 
 we finde no neccffity of any ftinted Liturgy to be ufed among us, by vertiie of any 
 divine precept. And feeing the Commif!k)n of the Apoftlcs limited them , to teacir 
 men to obkrvc and do onely what Chrift did command them in matters of this na» 
 -ture,Af^f A.28.2o.Who are we and what arc our Churches, diat we fhould preJume 
 above this CommiHion? And^wc hopcit will not be cffcnfively taken by any godly 
 Brethren, That wc ftand faft in the liberty wherewith Chrift hath made us free im 
 this , as well as in all other things. 
 
 Secondly, becaufe the lawfulftcfTe of fet forms and ftinted Liturgies is queftioneJ 
 and doubted of by many fairfifuU fcrvonts of God : whereas fcj Church- officers to 
 
 B cdific 
 
2 The afijn'er to t/jt prfl Po futon. 
 
 cdific tb.e Churches by their o^A•n ojfcs^ as well in praying as in preaching , all ibrts 
 wi:houtcon:rovcr/iegrantirco beJawfulJ. Now fpiricuall prudence guideth be- 
 lievers, when two ways are fet before them , one doubtfaJI tliough ventured on by 
 fome, the other certainly fafe and good , chough ncgkifled by many, to choole thac 
 VV'hich is hfe, declining the other. ' 
 
 Thirdly, Bccaufe Primitive pa terns ofall the Churches of God in their bedtimes 
 Cv\hcn as touching this point ihcy kept the rule in their eye) whether Jew iflibcfbie 
 Chri(r, or Chrilllan above a lOo yeers after Chri/l , yield not the leaft footflep to 
 flicw us another fa^ way to walk in^then this u^^ A'ehaVe chofen.Asfoi'af.er times 
 towards tlie txn^ of the fecond, and beginning o't the third Century, we know how 
 far the Churclies were then degenerated and declined from the firU purity ; neither 
 do we mar veil at it, feeing in the Apo(lies time the myftery of iniquity began to 
 work, and it was then foretold, that the power of godluielTe would be in afcertimes 
 exchanged for empty formes. In which rcfpeit , we look not at them as our guides 
 neither in this, nor other particulars not warranted by the Rule, herein following 
 the advifc of Cj^riari, who himfclf faw the corruption o^ thole tinpes, Non efl at^ 
 tenden^um quidAliquls afite nos faciendnm fHtavertt , fed quid qui ante omnes eft 
 ChrtFitis fecerit c^ faciendnm prdtceferit . 
 
 To conclude, feeinty our Chriflianlibercy freeth us from bindincj- our felvbs to 
 any religious oblervances^ whereunto the written word doth not bind us. And lee* 
 ing fpirituall priyjence dire»5ls us to choofe thoie ways, which en all hands arecon- 
 ff fled to be r fe,! voiding thofe that bcddtibtftjll and haZatdour, Anci feeing it will 
 not be fafe for us, ncedlcfly to fwervcfroni the conflant practice of aLh^Charchcs 
 that are recorded in Scripture, and the'fe'held forth as a cloud of Witncfles for us fo 
 follow in m.atccrs of this nature , wee theretbre may riot, doe not:, dare not u(e fee 
 forms of Prayers and dinted Liturgies ih thcfeChurchesv ' '■ '' 
 
 More particularly, in that we doi notufe that forme o( Prayer and tinted Li*- 
 turgy, which is in tife among your fclvcs : thefc and fuch other like llealons have 
 induced us thereunto.' i - Themanvaiid jufl exceptions whereunto that Liturgy 
 is lyable both for matter aiUtmarfrt'^rV^r the proofc whereof wee referre yoii to 
 thofe faidifulJ fervantsbf God'v vvhoha:V<^gone bdf^reus^in' witncfTmg'aga'if^tl^c 
 fcme: Among^ others to MaRer Cayi-rvyigh't . afrdxhc Ab^i'id'gment. - '^•* - ^»'^ ''• 
 
 2 In as much as that Liturgy was never ccifnmAndcd of God \ -and hath-'^been 
 greatly abufcd to Idolatry and Supet^licion , and rs not 6f any neceflarf ufe ,' and 
 therefore we are affraid to bring i: into the Worfhipdf God , as knbwing thc^ea- 
 loufie ofthe Lord, in matters of this nature 5 ^'f<?^-iOi and ho\V rtrliltly hcecom- 
 mandeth his people, that- all monuments and remnants of Idolatry and Supcrfliti- 
 onfhould beabolifhedfrom among them , I>eut,^,i<;,i6, E.vod,i^,f^, i fa j 7,0, 
 ^ r. 2 Cor. 6,1 J. In which refpeft the holy Ghoft hath greatly commended lacohy 
 David, lehn.Hexi^hiA and loCtah^ for taking away the remembrance of fuch thmgs, 
 
 ^ Cefs^ 
 
The afif.per to the firfi Vojitkn, g 
 
 (7^».g^.a,4. ^faLi6,^* iKtHJio.zCij* & i^.^ C^i{, all the Qaptcr. And 
 where other Kings of ludah caiiiC diorc otthe like zealc , the Scripture notes k as a 
 blemiili in them that the high places were not taken away:albeit the people did riot 
 faerifice in them tofaUcgods, but ondy to the Lord, 2 Chrofj.i^Aj. & 20.3^ & 
 53*17. Yea, moreover Jtappeareth by the Scripture , that fomcthings that had a 
 good Originall and ule (if they be not rtill.nccc/Tary and com.manded of OoA) arc 
 unla wfuJi when once they are know ne to be A^^Xzdi by Idolatry , and abufed to it, 
 zKhg.iS.^^* Hoft.iS.i-j. Aithe brazen Serpent was at the firft an Inftitution 
 though but temporary : but when the children of ffrael burned Incenfe to it, H^- 
 jcefk/ah , is commended for breaking it in pieces , and the Lord witneffcth of him 
 that he did that which was right in the fight of- the Lord.and according to his Com- 
 mandement, which he commanded ^<?/?j, 2 /0>^. 1 8. 3,(5. how much more in the 
 like cafe ought other things to be removed, which never were commanded of God, 
 but onely were deviled by men? And that that Liturgy hath been fuperflitioufly a- 
 bufed , may be deer to any that fhall confider that it is the fame for fubflance that 
 Was ufed in the days of Popery. x\nd therefore when the Papids in Devo^Jh&e and 
 Or«)W/j had njade a Commotion and Rebellion upon thee' lange of Religion, in 
 the days of King Edwardihz Sixth. It was told them by the King, for the pacifying 
 of them : That it was the [clf-fdme Service in Engli{h , yvlkh had heeyt before tn L4- 
 tine : and if the Service of the Church was good in Lathie, it remajneth good in Eng* 
 lijhy fory^othing u altered: fox ^Us andCMcmmtents, Edwards, And Pope Tim 
 the fifth did fee fb little variation in it from the Latine Service , that had bcaj for- 
 merly ufed in that Kingdome, that he would have ratified it by his authority, if Q^. 
 Ellz^ahth would have fo received it. And rfiany of the people put fuch holincfTc 
 in it, that they think God is not rightly worfhipped , nor his Sabbath well obfer- 
 ved, nor the Sacraments fufficiently adminifl-red, if there be no reading of that Ser?^ 
 vice. And otliers put fuch hoi ineffe arrd neceility in it , that they preferre it befort 
 Gods holy Ordinance of preaching the Word. Info ' 
 
 much astheMmifters are in the danacr of being called I, X^'P^^"' '' ^^, ^^ 
 n- I /. I . ^ I .^ 1 ' I "^ I nic Abnoiirasnc again JtccjY- 
 
 in quc'tion, and of being ccnfured,. if they doe not read form'ty to the Cercmonhs, 
 that Liturgy every Lordb day without omitting any part and we do not fee bnr it Is as 
 thereof, eidier in rcfpe^^ of preaching qriotherwife. ftiongagainft this Liturgy. 
 
 3 In regard r>f the many Wofiill fcandals, and dangerous confequcncesofufing 
 thatLiturgiCsof which we fuppofc you are:noc ignorant. '' 
 
 To mention but two, F/'^.Thc hardning of PapiRs who are imboldned to think 
 betterof their own Breviaries^Made-Books.PortuifTes, feeing that Liturgie hath bin 
 extracted out of thofe books, and rather fetched from them then from the forms u- 
 fcd in any of thercfc^rmedCiiurche?. * 
 
 2 The coniKcnancing and crtabliffiingofan unlearned Idol Mini^ery, ornot- 
 Prcachingcuratcs.Non-refidentSjPluralitics.&c, in whofc skirtsis to befour*:^ the 
 
 1^ -^- llllirt III III MIIIIIIIIIIIITI ^^— * 
 
4 The afifwer to the fif-fi Poftttok, 
 
 blood ofio many mens (ouls living and dying in their fins, while they igliorautly 
 content thcmfelvcs with, and harden thcmfclvcs in fome empty forms of Religion 
 2nd blindc devotion, which are begotten and chcrifhed chiefcly by fuch prayers and 
 miniftcrs. Neither is there Icflc fcandall hereby (vvc mcancnotonely taken but 
 given) then by the eating of an Idolathite , in the Idols Temple condemned by the 
 A}K)ftle I Cffr, 8.710. For if the eating of an Idolathite by him that had know- 
 lcdge,and knew that an Idol wasnothing,and that all meats were lawfalljdid ini- 
 boldcn others to honour the Idol^and therefore was a fcandall given, fo alfo ic is in 
 this cafe. 
 
 4 Seeing that bookc is fo imposed as that the miniftcr in reading of it , is limi- 
 ted to the very words let downc without any diminution,additionj or alteration; 
 therefore we dare not ufe it. 
 
 For I The Lord himfelfc hath not limited his peo^^le to his own formes and 
 therefore we fee notj how it can be lawful] to be limited to other mens formes ; 
 For in thus doifig we fliould fubjefl our fclves to the cxerci/c of fuch an authority 
 and power of the Prelates,as in this cafe puts forch a Wronger aft oflimiting power 
 then Chrifl himfelfe, who doth not limit us to thofe formes, which himfclfehath 
 fet downe in Scripture : For thougW we acknowledge the Lords prayer and other 
 formes letdown in Scripture, may be lawfully ufcd as prayers Cdue cautions being 
 obfcrved) yet there is not a limitation lying upon the Churches in the ufe ofthote 
 prayers, .^nd therefore we do not find that the Apoflles ever ufed that form taught 
 by Chrirt in thofc very words,much lelfe limited tbcmfelvs to it, when they prayed, 
 nor did they teach the Churches fb to doc. 
 
 2 If the Lord would not have us limit our felves in our own forms,whiles we are 
 cxercifing our own gifts (which he hath fpecially fan(f^ificd to edify his Church 
 j4S}.6'J^, Sfh.^,Z. 1 C^r.ii.y.) leaft we fhould quench or at leaft flraiten his 
 fpirit in prayer, i Thef. 5.1 p. would he then have us limited to other mens forms, 
 which have not becnc in like Ibrt fan6lified ofGod,but will rather quench or ftrai- 
 ten the fpiricof God, whiles we arc fo limited to them? 
 
 ^ The entertainment of this form hath been a manifcfl fliare unto the Churches 
 who upon the fame ground on which they have received this forme into the desks 
 have bcene limited to others in the pulpit, by mcancs whereof the poorc Church of 
 Chrii^ hath bin wholly deprived ofthe publike ufe of the Minifters gifts in prayer, 
 and the fpirit of prayer in theMinifters in publike, hath beene greatly reflrained. 
 
 As for our Judgement concerning the prailice of orhers,who ufe this Liturgie in 
 our native Countrie, wehavealwayes beene unwilling to exprcfTe our mindes 
 there againft unlcfTe we hare been ncceffarily called thereunto,and at this time we 
 thinke it not expedient to exprcfTe our fclves any further concerning this matter, as 
 loath to intermeddle with the affaires of other Churcbes, but contenting odrTelves 
 with, and blcfiing the Lord for thofc iibcrtics^which wc,by the mercie of God. do 
 
 herf» 
 
Then fly to the anjiver of thefirfi Tofition 5 
 
 here enjoy* referving alio due reverence to the judgements of our beloved brethren 
 and deere Countreymen, who may concerning this matter be otherv^•i^e minded, 
 
 T His pofition cannot bearc thatraeanmg which you give it, if you take it ac- 
 cording ,oour mindes,and the plain conflru*5lion of the words.We never que- 
 ftroned why you made not ufe of a fiinted Liturgy , much lefle why you did not 
 wholly and in every part tye your felycsunto, and approve of that forrne in ufe a- 
 mongrt us. You might well thinke we had little to doe to put forth fuch a de- 
 mand > t'/^.whethcr you thinke it lawfullto approve Jd others and praflice your 
 fclves, what fwerveth jfrom the rule,and wc thinke it Grange you fiiould give our 
 words fuch a meaning. 
 
 The thing we craved refolution in was, whether in your judgements all ftinted 
 and fet formes of prayer and Liturgies be unlawfuil.The reafon hereof was bccaufe 
 in writings from Nere^Englandyyit had fcene all let jiturgies^and fee formes of pray- 
 er Condemned as 'deviled woifliip which God would not accept , and partaking 
 in the Sacraments of the Supper in our aflemblies, therefore difallowed, becaufe ad- 
 niiniflredina flintedLiturgie, which things were received with fuch likeing a- 
 joiong fome brethren with us,and by them imparted and recommended to others>^ 
 that they occafioned that rent anddiftra6lion whereof we complain. 
 
 It is true^the people among us feparate from our forme of prayer or liturgy, but 
 the reafon hereof is bccaufe it is tinted , not becaufe this or that or ours in- 
 particular. 
 
 You confefle you want not fome brethren among you who look at all fet formes 
 of Prayer invented by one of another age or congregation , and prefcribed to their 
 b^thren , to be readx>ut of a bookefor the prayers of the Church , as Images and 
 Imaginations of maa forbidden in the fecond Commandement , and that the law- 
 fulneffcofLiturgiesjand fet formes is queflioncd and doubted of by many faithfull 
 feivants ofGod.fuch alfb as come over occafionally,who withdraw themfelvs from' 
 the Sacraments in the congregation, doe it on this pretence, that a tinted Liturgic 
 is a humane invention. And if we examine the reafons brought againft 'lintcd 
 formes and Liturgies, we fliallfinde them to f^rike at all formes and Liturgies, 
 though devifed by men of the fame age and congregation > and to be ufed but now 
 aikl then,or but once on (et purpole,and that cither in publikc or in privatCjas elfc- 
 where we may have occafion to fhew. 
 
 You fay it is evident j many Prec^hers conRantly ufe a fet forme of Prayer of 
 their own making before their Sermons. with whom the people rcfufe not to joync;. 
 And you know (we doubt not) thatfuch fet formes arc dillikcd alio. And ifthc 
 grounds be examined (in our underf}anding)they make as wnuch againfl the one 
 as the other. View but the reafons why you admit not a fainted Liturgie and forme 
 efprayer; and fee whcdier the two laft wi^il not in the fame terras direflly cotaclude 
 
 B^ againll. 
 
^ TP)g anfwer to the Jecond P option. 
 
 gainftboth. But what ever is co be thought herein, or whether metis praflife: a- 
 grec with their opinion? we now difpuce nor. This is pJaine and manifef^, that 
 mcnsopinionsarctobejudgcdby their exprcfle words and realons, not by their 
 pfaiftifes. TheBrownifh(astheyarc commonly called) can' feparate from no 
 iiintcd Liturgic amongll us,but that which is in ufe, and for ought we know they 
 may joync with their owne Pailors,though they oft uic the lame forme of prayer 
 in whole or i4i part, in thankfgiving before meat, or in prayer before Sermon, or 
 the like. And yet their opinion is that all (Hnccd Liturgies and fct Formes of prayer 
 be iinlawFi'll, humane inventions forbidden by the fccond Commandement. 
 
 But if any thing had bccne left doubtful 1 in the Letter, that it might be drained 
 to another fence, either bccaufc we were (l^ort in expreffion, or many of you not 
 intbrmcdin the pafl'ages which gave occafion to the qucftion, it is well knowne 
 whatthe words meane in ordinary conHrudion. And we doubt not but many 
 brethren among you, might and could fully in forme you o? our meaning that there 
 need no fuch ftraining to find it out. 
 
 That which follpweth in your anfwer to the poficion ( as you interpret it ) wee 
 paffcover, bccaufc it is not to the matter intended. And wee areas unwilling to 
 trouble you with the affaires of other Churches taking you from your owne weigh- 
 tic occaiions, as you are unwilling to be interrupted. Onciy in regard of promiic, 
 and bccaufe plaine dealing ferves to mamtainc love, we thinke good to adveitife 
 you thele few things. 
 
 1 That your rcalbns why you accept not of a tinted Lyturgle be ambiguoufiy 
 propounded^ for fomedmes you plead onely for your libertie herein, and that a Uni- 
 ted ^brmc is not neceflary, and foiT»etimeyou fpeake lb, as they that looke at Stin- 
 ted Lyturgies, as Lnagcs forbidden in the fecond Commandement will eafily draw 
 your w ords to their meaning. 
 
 2 The realons you bring againft a fet fonnc of prayer or Liturgie doe hold as 
 iho\^g againfl a fct forme of Catechifme confellion and profcflion of faiths blelfingj 
 baptizing and finging of Pfalmes. 
 
 5 Wee have not called upon you at this time to witneflc for, or againll die cor- 
 ruptions m the Communion-Bookc. This you fall upon by draining the fcnfc of - 
 our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof. 
 
 The realons which you bring againll it, we cannot approve them all ; The ex- 
 ceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know: 
 Buttoelkeme the whole for ibme corruptions tbund therein, a monunient of Idola- 
 £ry,that we have not learned. 
 
 The Argument in the abridgement which is u led againft conformity to the Ce- 
 remonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the Booke hold againfl 
 the LytnrgiC; of which opinion we are alio. 
 
 4 I f thcfc rcafbns be intended oncly to llicw why you receive not our forme of 
 
 adminiRration^ 
 
The afifwer to the fecond Tofnioti, 7 
 
 . • a-.^-^n it is that which (wc are perfwaded you know) we never required 
 :fv"? SlSloriru^^^ of che ^oL amongH L alcogecher in thmgs lawful!, 
 
 J T° iSTvla have been necelTarily called thereunto. But when fome. upon 
 Churches uneik you have b^^^^ »«d others out of their zeale and 
 
 the ^q^y/^,' >^^;Eea \o draw many to feparation from the Sacramcnr, be 
 ^°"^T' £l inalE^^^ wee cannot apprehend any ,u<t ground of 
 
 caufe -^ "f f^'i" "^™ widc^ fome brethren had their hands decpc there- 
 
 '%"^tp tb,S"to MafterP.that his manner of preaclnng wasdiforder- 
 e LB. Ob eitetn .^ ■ ^^.^ ^^tcer, he fpeakes of, to the Chffcs, be- 
 Wh<te» the Pf '«;;' °^ l^^ he had declared to the Church the equity of his refu- 
 5^?off?efer°tferca^« fi„g the Minilkrs defired by the Scriptures. And may not 
 to Mr ««»' anfw" u„.o ^g^vith like reafon objed-^, that this tnanner of proceeding 
 Mr Ba// for feisfaftion m j^ djCorderly in feeking to draw men to Separation, bccaule 
 th-s P<'-^«'°"J«"'"Vht of ftinted Iliturgie, before you had (hewed to us or other 
 Tad" IrSly '- brethren (whom-it may concerne) by Scnpture, or re- 
 treated to compa./Ma- fc„s drawne from thcice, that a fl.nted Liturg.e was uii- 
 fter iiCh Ttestirc, and j {^n p but of tliis wec may intrcat more tully ellc- 
 
 where. 
 
 faults, which tViatanfirer made agajn« it. 
 
 • .<■ ■'■— ^ \, 11. P'oSlttON. 
 'i-hkii\iii^^0to]cjMinp^er,or receive the Sacraments y^4,ere a ^mted 
 
 "jiion^^where,a»dwhen'thatfiimed Lim^yu fifed. 
 
 «Hr'fee.T^KW«hisvQWletter, the groMndofthisPofuion hath beene the fepara- 
 Hiln SiveEn yo'ir affeinblies.becaufe of a Aimed Lkurgie: and wc are not 
 X tion '>^'^]l\^"^.^^^^ who withdraw themfclves from 
 
 TS£:^£S^^Z:!£ry.^ GLill.and from their godly congrcga. 
 tTons snoXheso/ehrift.bccaufe^f fomecorrup. 
 want of light, not love of the truth) they are not throughly ckanled. Ag.inlt w hica 
 
 ^tSrjS:S:e^S:^-^ng t.KPofition K 1C1..WC w^ld promi^^P 
 
8 The Re fly to the Anfrver of the fecottd Toft ton. 
 
 things ; Pirfl concerning the pcrlbns reading this Licurgie, which may be citl>cr an 
 ungodly or unable Miniver, or an aWcand a godly. 
 
 Secondly; concerning the Licurgic it felfe, which may be citherof the whole or 
 (omc felcfl prayers, which may beconceived to be the Icall offcnlive. 
 
 Now if chc quedion be of joynlng in prayer with, and when that whole Llturgie 
 is ijfed, or where that which is ufed,isread by an unable and ungodly Minifter, 
 we then fee not how it can be lawfull to Joync in prayer in i'uch cafes ; For 
 
 I The prayers of the Miniftcr are not his private prayers, but the publikc pray- 
 ers of the whole affcmbly, whole mouth he is to God. And when the prayers of- 
 fered w"^ by the Minifter, as a living holy, and acceptable fervicc to God, are n»t 
 througli humane frailty, but otherwilc for matter and manner corrupt, wee fee not 
 what warrant any one hath to joync with fuch prayers,C^4/.i .1^,14. 
 
 2 When men ioyne therein with an infufficient Miniftry, they doe not only 
 countenance them in their place and office, whom the Lord hath rejcflcd from being 
 his Prcifts.Ho/.4.6. but alio fctup thofe Idolls and means of worrtiip to cdifie 
 ihemfclvcs by,which God never appointed in his holy word Ezec\^, 1 1 .1 7, 
 
 But if thequc^ion be of joyning in (bmcfew fclcil prayers read by an ablcand 
 painfull Minirter out of that booke as on the one fide wee are very tender of impu- 
 ting fin to the men that (b joyne : fo on the other fide, we are not without fearcjeaft 
 that fuch joyning may be found to be unlawfull: unlefle it may appcare that the Mi- 
 niilers with whom the people have communion in reading thofe prayers doc nei- 
 ther give any fcandall by reading of them nor give unlawfuJl honour to a thing a- 
 bu fed to Idolatry, and luperHicion, nor doc fuffer themfelves to be fi nfully limit- 
 ed in the reading of them . 
 
 Kef If . 
 
 S Undent hath been fpoken of the meaning of the pofition and the grounds thereof 
 and if wc have not luirtaken your judgment & prafticc both,you have born wit- 
 nefie ag linrt both that you call the rigid Icperation , and this more moderate alio ; 
 And wc humbly wifh , the moderate doc not degenerate into the rigid ere long. 
 It is very flrange, if they take not great incouragemcnt upon your grounds. The 
 truih of our miniRery, Churches, Ordinances, and calling is queftioned, and where 
 men will ftay the Lord knowcth, and what more common then that our Liturgic 
 IS unlawfull, bccaufe it is the devifc of man ; The Author ( or publifherac lea«3 
 of a letter againft our Service booke beginneth with fuch like diftin(5lion. * 
 
 :,, Aga'mft this Prayer-bookc ( faith he 3 divers have pleaded in a different man- 
 j> net. Firfi (bme arguments are proper to the Separatifts qna tales, viz.. that it is 
 5> offered in a falfe Church ; 2. By a falfe miniver ; 3. In the behalfc of the fubjedls 
 », of thcKingdomeof Antichrifl. Thefe are properly theirs, being the grounds 
 ,, wliercupon they make a totall icpa ration from all the Churches in this Land, as 
 ,jfio Churches of Chrift. Thcfc I approve not, yet note them that yee may fee 
 
 „upon 
 
The Repfy to the A'^frver ofthefecond Pojitton, ^ 
 
 ^^ upon what different grounds, the fame Pofition is maintained by feverallper- 
 „ Tons, and that yce may be dehvered from the prcjudice,which hinders many from 
 „ receiving thofc truths, becaufe they fcare the reproach of Brownifmc. 
 
 „ Secondly? there are other grounds which are common to all that plead for the 
 „ the puritieof Chrifts ordinances, and which doe not neceflarily inferre fuch fepa- 
 „ ration^ but only ferve to fhew the unlaw fuinefle of that praf^ifc,and our comuiu*- 
 ,, nicaiing therein. 
 
 Thus the EpilHe wherein the^fame diRinilion of fcparation is noted : but how 
 truly, let the indifferent judge. If none muf^ be counted Separatif^s, but fuch as 
 have pleaded againft the booke of Common prayer as unlaw full, becaufe offered up 
 in a falfeChurch«&c. then aretherc none fnchm the world, that wc haveknownc 
 or heard of: for it is apparent they caft us off as no Churches of ChriR, becauie 
 our Service is a humane dcvife, will-Worfliip, Idolatry ; And not on the contrary, 
 that our Service is will-Worfhip , or Idolatry, becaufe our Churches are fallc 
 Churches. Againfl all Communion with us they plead, becaufe we are a falfe 
 Church, but againtt our fainted Liturgic they argue not in that manner. 
 
 The grounds on which that Authour builds C which he faith are common to all, 
 that plead for the purity of Gods ordinancesjarc one and the fame with the grounds 
 oftheSeparatifls,{hiafrs taken our of the fame quiver and peculiar to them, fbmc 
 few brethren onely excepted, who'of late have looked towards that opinion. See 
 how affcflion will tranlport. Thofe reafons fliall be common to all that plead for 
 the purity of Chrif^s Ordinances,which were never taken to be found and true, ei- 
 ther by the reformed Churches abroad, or by the godly Brethren at home, whether 
 now at reQ: with the Lord, or for the prcfent living, or yet by the moil of the bre- 
 thren among whom they livcand with whom they hold focietie,or by any minifter 
 or Societie which did hold the unitie of the fpirit in the bond of peace tor the fpace 
 of thisi40o yeares and upwards, by your owne confeffion, unlefTewithin thefe few 
 dayes, and that by a few onely. If this be not to ftrengthen the hands of the Sepa- 
 r.atiRs, or at leaft, to lay blocks of offence in their way, what is ? As yet we thinke = 
 mof^ of them that have feparated, are not fo farre gone, as to condemne all our Af- 
 femblies as no Churches of Chrif}, but we judge they have proceeded further then 
 Chrifl: the Lord and Saviour of his Church hath given them commiflion or allow- 
 ance, that the grounds whereon they build are unfbund, and^fuch as make way for 
 further danger, if the Lord prevent not. And that the reafbns mentioned in the 
 letters are the proper grounds of Separatifts, and not common to all them thatfecke 
 the purity of religion, for they are not approved by your felves : and if all this tend 
 not to tarne them who halt, cut of the right way, wee heartily intreate yon to 
 confider. 
 
 Your judgement concerning the Pofition,^you deliver in three proPofitions ( for 
 {o many they be for ful/ftance ) In rcfpe(^ of the perfons reading the Liturgie, or the 
 
 C ihirf^ 
 
I o The reflj to the anfwer ofthefecsnd PoJstioH. 
 
 thing It Cclfc that is read. As if any part of the Liturgie bee read, ( put cafe fomc 
 few lelef^cd prayers oncly, by an unable and ungodly minifter : it is nnlawfull 
 ( fay you) for the people to joyne in that cafe. But if it be unlawfull for the people 
 to joyne, when an ungodly miniver rcadeth fome few feleil prayers, it is either in 
 We may not Commu- refpe^l of the Minilkr, or the prayers themfclvcs. Not of the 
 nicarc at : 11 in thac prayers theinfdves, for they be (ckR and choyce, faultleffc 
 mimftcry, which is ex- both in refpe^ of matter and manner, as it is taken for gran- 
 p-rfcn cr in an unlawful. ™* unleiie this diltribution be to no purpole ; if in relpcct 
 pl^ce i^yjif/fn againft ofthe Minifter, then it is not lawflill to joyne with fueh a 
 i:cr?t, Counfcll debated one in any ordinance of God whatfoever. For ifthe Minifter 
 f 1/ i^;d,pag 79 j^^]^^ jj. unlawful], then all communion in any part of Gods 
 
 worHiip, wichfuch Miniflers is nnlawfull, and (b the Church in all ages of the 
 world, the Prophets, our SaviourGhrift , the Apoftles, and the faithful! in the 
 primitive Churches finned^ in holding Gommunion with fuch , when the Priefts 
 ^ ^ ^ were dumbe dogges that could not barke,and greedy dogges 
 
 8 '.M:c \% iAx!Vr^<. ^^^^ coM never have enough; when the Prophets prophehed 
 51. Ef^.f t^y 6. ioh.%. lies, and the Pnefts bare rule by their meancs; when the 
 16. Oia^h f 2 0,11. & Priefls bought and fold Doves in the Temple, and tooke up- 
 « r4>J- ^ »3 I -3^4' on them to provide fuch things for them that were to offer; 
 when the Pharifees corrupted the Law by falfe glofles, taught for doftrines mens 
 precepts, made the commandemcnts of God of none cfFcft through their traditi- 
 ons, under pretence of long prayer devoured widowes houfes, taught the LaWj but 
 pradlifcd it not; when they were fuch, and did fuch things, they were ungodly Mi- 
 niRcrs ^ But we never find that the Prophets, our Saviour, the Apoftles, did cither 
 forbearcthemfelvcs, or warncthefaithfull not to communicate with fuch in the 
 ordinance ofwordiip. We readc our Saviour charged his Difciples» 
 ^^ir'[^ ^^' tobewareof the leaven of the Scribes and Pharifees, to let them 
 alone, becau fe they were the blind leaders of the blind, but he never 
 forbade to communicate with them in the ordinances of God. his not then for pri- 
 vate Chriftians to withdraw themfelves from the ordinance 
 f fo'S' $57? S I ly'. of worftiip, and communion of the Church, becaufe fuch are 
 * * permitted to deale in the holy things of God, whom they 
 judge or know unfit: w^hen men joyne in the worfhip of God with unworthy Mi- 
 nificrs, they doe not Countenance them in their place and office, but obey the com- 
 mandcmcnt of God, who requires their attendance upon his highnefle in that way 
 and meanes. 
 
 To goc no further tlicn the text ycu quote, Becaufe then hafl defpifed 
 
 ^'^ '^' kj?ow/edge, I will affo reje^ thee &c,Vioper]y the text IS fpokcno^the 
 
 ten tribes called //r^^/, and thePriefts amon.^ cticm who worfliipped the Calves 
 
 .vhich /^r(7^i7^»^ had fct up, whom the Lord threatneth to rejcJl, becaule they had 
 
 rejcflcd 
 
The Reply to t%e anfwer of the fecoftd Pojttion» 1 1 
 
 rcjcflcd knowledge being either wilfully ignorant, or withholding the truth In uii-* 
 righteoufneffe. Whether they were for the prefent abfolutcly rejected , or the Lord 
 threatens only to reje(5l them we will not difputc. 
 
 This may fuffice that it is not to be found cither in this or any other Text of 
 Scripture, that the people joy ning in the trueWorfliip of God, with unworthy 
 Minifters, do countenance them in their place thereby. On the contrary, if you will 
 extend this Text to all unworthy Minifters of what fort focver , whom the word of 
 truth doth condemne as not approved Minifters of God, the Scripture teachcth evi- 
 dcntiy not ondy that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place 
 
 and office, but that they muft and ought to joyne with them in the 
 1 5<f»i.i.i»,T|, worftiipof God, and in feparating from the Ordinance they (liall 
 /**8^8*** finnc againft God, much leflc then do they in fuch joyning fet thofc 
 
 CMU\1\ i». ^^^^^ aod m^anes of worfhip, which God never appointed in his 
 Vh\l\*x%, Word.Por the worfliip is of God^ and the Miniftery is of God, the 
 
 perfbn unworthily executing his place , is neither fet up by fomc 
 few private Chrittians , nor can by them be removed. And warrant to withdraw 
 themfelves from the worfliip of God, becaufe fuch as ought not , are fuffered to en- 
 termcddic in the holy things of God, they have none from God. Dumbc Dogs, 
 greedy Dogs, Idol-ftieepheards, falfe Prophets, Strangers, are unworthy Minifters, 
 but they that communicate with fuch in the ordinance of worfhip , are never faid 
 to fet up Idols or means of worfliip which God never appointed. The flicep of 
 Chrift will not heare ftrangers in the Lords fenfc , but outwardly they heard thofe 
 ftrangers preach (if the Scribes and Pharifees were fuch ) and by hearing them dif- 
 covered them to be Grangers, i.e. falfe Prophets ; Some ftrangers at leaft, of whom 
 our Saviour fpeaks, were of the true Church, and of ifrasly but brought falfe do* 
 dirine tending to kill theloule, /uch ftrangers none fliould heare, that is/believe and 
 fbllowrbut as they be tolerated in the Church/othey may l^ar them,fo long as they 
 bring the truth. Unworthy Minifters arc no Minifters for themfelves, but they arc 
 Minifters for the people of God 3 that is, fb long as they be in the place of Mini- 
 fters, the a6ts of their adminiftrations arc of iorce to the faithfull , if they obferve 
 the forme of adminiftration prefcribed byChrifl; for Chrifts Ordinances have their 
 efficacy from him, not from them that fcrve about them , and evill Minifters mini- 
 fler not in their own name, but in Chrifts and by his Commiffion. 
 It hath evermore bin held for a truth in the Church of God,that although lon'.tlmcs 
 
 the evill have chiefs authority in the miniftration of 
 neh.cmfx^n^ S X i.& 19 S- the Word and Sacraments, yet for as much as they doe 
 
 ^rt,i^ Saxen. conf. ^rUiz "^^ ^"^ *^"^^ ^" '"^^^ °^" "^"^^ ^"^ ^" Chrifts and itii-- 
 ZepJeSac.UxcS. Art, of Kelt, nifter by his Commiffion and Authority, wee may u(c 
 giofi, Hybcrti. jft^o. C<^lto?t their Miniftery both in hearing the Word , and recei- 
 pr^lca de Ecclefa, c^p,io. ^ing the Sacraments ; neither is the effe^ of Chrifts 
 
 C t Or- 
 
Bczi ilf Presbjt.et excdmunic4t.p.2$ 
 2(5. Iff A z-cro>qHi4 nonnnlli a JAcris 
 
 l^ The R^flj to the Arfwer ofthefecortd Pofnion. 
 
 Ordinance takeir away, by their wickcdncflc, nor the grace of Gods gifcs dimini- 
 (hcd from fuch as by faith, and rightly doc receive the Sacraments adminiftrcdto 
 chem which arc cflcfliiall;bccaufe ot Chrifts iiiftitut on and-fn'OiTufc, although they 
 be miniflred by cyiU men. 
 
 f The reafons whereby the ancient Churches 
 conde.nncdthe Donatills and Catharifh for 
 their voJunt;iry and feditious leparation- and 
 the nioderne Churches condemne the Ana- 
 c£nh.& A^''^w^''^;V^;^^/'-baptiastbr their unwarrantable departure 
 ter dioYHm vitta ultro Al^fiwe^t i.e.^^ f^^^^^ ^^d fj renting of the body of Chri^, 
 feipfos excommnnkant ma^nam re. j ^iH hold againfr Ibparation from the pray- 
 trchcnfionem merentur. ^ e^s ^f ^h^ congregation , becaufe they are read 
 
 Cby an ungodly mini-'ler. 
 The fccond propofition. Where the whole Liturgie is ufed,though by an able 
 and godly Minifter , it is not lawfullto joyne in prayer in that cafe.Herein wee 
 cannot be of your judgement; for ki the times of the Prophets, and our Saviour 
 Chrirt, as great abu(es,no que^^ion , were found in the Church of the Jews in the 
 adminifiration ofholy things of God as can be imagined in our Liturgie or forme 
 of prayer :but the Prophets and our Saviour who taught the people to keepc thcm- 
 lelvcs pure and undefiled, never taught them to feparate from the adminiftration of 
 the holy things of God. And if the prefence at our forms of prayer be not lawful by 
 reai'on of the corruptions alleagcd^there can beno vifible focicty named throughout 
 the Vv^orld fince 20 j. yeeres after Chrift or thereabouts, wherein a Chri^ian might 
 lawfully /oyne in Prayer, reading the Scripture,hearing the word or participation 
 of the Sacraments. For compare the do6lrines,prayers, rices at thofc times in ufe in 
 the Churches with ours,and in all thefc, (blefled be the name of the Lord) wee are 
 more pure then they, 5ut no man will be fo bold Cwe hope) as to affirme the flatc 
 of the Churches within 2Co, yeeres after Chrift, to be fomilerably decayed that the 
 faithfull could not without fin hold communion with them in the aforefaid ordi- 
 nances. The prayers of the Minif^er, whether conceived or ftinted in a fet forme, be 
 not his private prayers, but the publike prayers of the whole aflcmb'y, whole 
 mouth he is to God both in the one and the other. But you will not fay , the peo- 
 ple ought not to joyne with their Paftor in the publique aflcmbly , if ought bee 
 amiffe in his prayer for matter , or manner, or both. It is all one to the people in 
 this cafejwhether the fault be pcrfonall Cas fome diftinguifh) or orhcrwife knowne 
 -beforehand or not knowne : For if fimplc prefence defile, whether it was knowne 
 beforehand or not^all prefence is faulty. And if fimple prefence defile not,our pre- 
 fence IS uot condemned , by reafon of the corruptions knowne , whereof we ^land 
 not g 111 ty, whether the corruption be through humane frailty or not, it is not m us 
 co,cnquire,bu:.i'achcr whether we be called to comc^and the faults fuch as oneChri- 
 
 Hiaii 
 
The Itejly to the Anfiverto thefeco*idPofttion, X 3 
 
 ftian cannot or mii^i not tolerate in another without breach cfcharlty. For if the 
 crroiirbe lach as may be tolerated j and I am called to be prefenc ; byfuch fault 
 I am not defiled chongh knowne befoi-e.If th? error be fuch as in confcience may 
 not be tolerated, though not knowne before hand J am bound,if prefent fbme way 
 tpprofefTeagainfl: it. This diftinition of perfonall and minifteriall faults in this 
 cafe until! it be cleared by fome Text of Scripture or found realbn from the word* 
 mud goe for the devife of man. 
 
 A Church, a Minifter, or a Chriftian may be <^iffe in an error (being mifpcr- 
 fwaded it is a truthjafter many mcanes long ufed to convince them , with whom 
 yet w€ mull hold communion in the ordinances of Religion : and the error may 
 be fuch as^e cannot without hypocrify or denyall of the truth hold communion, 
 though fuch meanes of convif^ion have not goiie before. But the corruptions 
 alleadged againft our forme of pr?yer for matter or manner, are fuch as one 
 Chriftian may and mbfft tolerate in another where he hath no power to re- 
 dreffetbcm. 
 
 Hath not Chriftian wiCdome and experience ofhumane frailties lefloned y©u 
 <^dccre brethren) to beare* one with another in matters of greater confequcncc 
 then any have or can be obje6led truly againft the form of prayer' in ufe among us? 
 And why fuch corruptions fliould not be afcribcd to humane frailty; we fee not:For 
 if a godly Minifler make \\k of a book in things which he judgeth lawfull for mat- 
 ter and manncnthe corruption in him that ufeth it according to his judgement, 
 from what caufe can it fpring but huma^ne ignorance and frailty ? We reft affured 
 you quc^lion not the integrity of many? who make much moreiufeof the booke 
 then onely in a fcvv feled^ prayers. From the bottomc of our hearts we dcfire and 
 pray that God would remove out of his <Shurch and worfhip whatfoever offcn- 
 dcth for matter or manner, and that all things naay be fo done, not onely that they 
 may be tolerated but that they might be approved in the confcience of all men. 
 But we are perfwaded that not onely fome few felc<fl prayers 
 Wcfcc no warrant but many prayers & other exhortations may lawfully be uted, 
 tToih^.althat^fn wi'^^ ^ruit and edification to Gods people, 
 a larger fence is idolatrous, adjoyned to Gods true worftiip,we (hculdrorbearcour prcfcnce 
 at the trucworftiip itfelfl Unrcalbn. of.lcpcraTion. anfw to 6. argunum. 
 
 To aggravate faults efpecially when it tends to draw away people from the 
 Ordinances of God.is no Icfle fault then to cxcufcthem , it may be greater, and 
 therefore we dare not e/kcme the prayers read by a godly and faithfuU Minifter 
 according to the booke in ufe among us, a corrupt facrifice whether in fuch as 
 read them,or them that be prefcnt.In them that join according to Chrifts command 
 (and liberty of a bfcnce frorn Ch rift hath not bcene fiiewed) notvsithftanding 
 the corruptions, we hold the prayers to be an holy and acceptable facrifice to God, 
 
 C^ 5 : and 
 
14 TheRefljtotheAnfweroftheJecondPdfmoH, 
 
 andpleafing to Jcfus Ghrift. The corrupt facrifice is that, whldi the deceiver 
 biingeth voluntariiy,and out of neglc6t,having a male in his flock; but the faith- 
 full bringcth himlelf and his godly dcfircs according to the will of God, and as for 
 corruptions, whether refpefling matter or forme,they arc none of his , they cleave 
 not to his Sacrifice to (bine or pollute it. As for the Text of the Prophet M^, 
 I.I M4. it is cited by many in this bufinclTc , and to many purpofet applyed , but 
 we cannot finde that in the Prophet for which it is here brought, 7"/?^ deceiver Is ac* 
 curfed that offer eth d corrupt thtng to the Lord, This we reade and beleeve, but that 2 
 godly man, being prefent at this forme of prayer among us, read by a godly and 
 fiithfull MiniQer, is the deceiver,who offcreth a corrupt thing unto the Lord,thatis 
 not proved. No argument can be brought from this place to the purpofe, but 
 by analogy, which is a kindc of arguing of all other moft ready at hand, but lya- 
 ble to mol^- exceptions,and apt to draw afide, if great care be not had , (which in 
 this place we finde notjtotakc the proportion in every materiall point ju^ and 
 right. And we defire fuch as alleadge this paflfagc of Scripture againft (imple pre- 
 fenceatthe prayers of our Liturgy, advifedly to confider whether God allow 
 them to make fuch application of his trudi which wee much doubt of, to fay 
 no more. 
 
 Your third propofition. That as you are very tender of imputing finne to thofe 
 men that joyne in fome fclefl prayers read by an able and godly Minmer ; fo on 
 the other (ide you are not without feare , leaft fuch joyiiing may be found unlaw- 
 fulLunlcfTe it may appeare that the Minifters with whom the people have commu- 
 nion in reading thofe Prayers,neither give any fcandall by reading them , Hor give 
 unlawfuli honour to a thing abufed to Idolatry and Super ft ition", nor doc fuffcr 
 themfclves to be finf ally limited in the reading of them. 
 
 I We cannot conceive how you (hould imagine the pra<flice of a godly Mini- 
 <^er in reading fome few felefl prayers to be (candalous orofFenfivein their con- 
 gregations when the people generally, not in their aflfemblies oncly, but through- 
 out the whole land, were perfwaded of the lawfulnefTe of that courfe till now of 
 late fome have beenedrawnc away to feparate, who yet by warrant of Scripture 
 produce nothing of weight to countenance that praflice. 
 
 2 If the booke ftiould be as you take it an idolathite, latent offtncc doth not ob- 
 lige. Ifany man fay unto thee f, this is facrificed to Idols, eat it not,fo that if it 
 doe not manifeftly appeare that this praflice is fcandalous- it is not lawfull for the 
 people to withdraw themfclves. 
 
 3 The book (we fpeake of the Liturgle fo far as it is fbuftd and good) by your 
 confefilon is no Idolathite, neither was it taken out of the Maffe-book in fuch fenfe 
 as you objeft, but rather the maffe & other Idolatrous prayers were added to it Jor 
 popery is as a fcab or leprofie cleaving to the Church, and many truths belonging 
 to the Church as her proper iegacie were ftollen and heaped together in that denne. 
 
 And 
 
Th Reflj to the unfverofthe fecond Vofitm. 1 5 
 
 Aftd why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever he finds the, or the 
 thicfe plead tide to the true mans goods by prc/cription, we know not ? It is no 
 hard taske to ^hew that our Service- booke was reformed in mo^ things according 
 to the pureft Liturgies which were in ufe in the Church long before the mafle was 
 hjeard of ni the world. And if thatcould not be fliewedjyet formes of fpeech general- 
 ly taken (we fpeak not of this or that fpcciall word or phrafe) is no more defiled by 
 Idolatry then the light aire, or place where Idolatry is committcd.lt is notunlaw- 
 full to pray,Lord helpe,or Lord have mercy, or to give thankes,praifed bee God, 
 becaufe the Papifts (^y ,Lady hel^CiOt yfraifed Ife god and the Vtrgm Mary. 
 
 Fourthly, Put cafe the Minifter in reading fuch prayers gives offence 3 or attri- 
 butes unlawflill honour to a thing abufed to Idolatry and Superftition, or fuffcr 
 himielfc to be finfully limited in the reading of them , what is that to the faithfull ? 
 This can be no juft ground of the peoples not joyning with them in the worfhip 
 of God, for that offence is perfbnall onely, and not the fin of them that be prefent, 
 they joyn in prayer onely , and not in his reading or limiting himfelf. Not to fay 
 that every particular pcribn muft be herein both accufer andjudge.lf he give offence 
 mu^ they flumble at the fi-one , and (eparate from the ordinance of grace ? wee 
 fliould rather think it is their duty to look unto their feet , that they goe not awry. 
 Let it be fhewed out of the Word of God, that either the Minifter is guilty of gi- 
 ving unlawflill honour, or that the people may lawfully withdraw themfelves in 
 cafe he fliould do fo, and we will then fay as you do, but untill that be proved, (be- 
 ing prcflcd and called to proffer our judgements) we believe that feparation is fcan- 
 
 dalous and finfull , never taught of God , nor confir- 
 CoTipirc what Miftcr /.7>. med by the approved example of the godly in any age 
 hath written in defence or ex- ^j. ^i^c of the Church : yea, againft the pofitive I a vv of 
 SK^^X^Wm^^ God,iniuuoustocheChurch«,dittraaingChriftu„s 
 nifts. ^p(iLSeSi.^,exam. p.4\. brmgmg contempt upon the Ordmances or God, and 
 & J/>ol,Se^,iZexam.pa^,i^6' defrauding believers of the fpirituall food of their 
 
 fouls, which is indeed to infringe their Chriftian liber- 
 ty » and what ever may be thought of it now , in former times it hath been accoun- 
 ted no fmall offence. 
 
 Fiftly, if this and fuch like fcruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordenance of 
 worfhip, we muft hold communion with no fociety under heaven. For may no: the 
 brethren which held all fainted Liturgies , and fee forms unlawfull fay with like 
 jRrengthofreafon, It is unlawfull to joy n in conceived prayer with ^others, if ei- 
 ther they give too little honour to it, as deeming theother lawful! :or finfully limit- 
 ing, or fuffering themfelves to be limited to cnc fiinted forme , though conceived at 
 firft by them klves > And may not the brethren who hold a fainted fon-nc lawful! 
 %fi like manner objefl ? It is unlawfull to joyn in prayer with them becauie they 
 attribute too much honour to concaved prayer, as making their device and method 
 
 the 
 
2 6 7"^' tAnfiver to the third ah^ fourth Pojttiott. 
 
 the wordilp of God ? And may not the Brethren which hold it lawful] to uik Tome 
 fclccflcd prayers according to the forms among us, upon the fame crrounds con- 
 demne communion with both forts ? and all of them one with another , bccaufc 
 they either limit themfelvestoo much, or too litde? You (ly intheexpofitionof 
 the firllpofition, many Preachers conftantly ufeafct fonn of prayer of their own 
 making before their Sermons, mu^^ you not fay upon this ground , that it is! unlaw- 
 full tojoyn with thcm^becaufc they l^nfully ftint themselves ?In probability aChri- 
 ftian may prefume, that in the publike worfhip of God, there will be through hu- 
 mane ignorance 3^ infirmity fbmwhat amifs for matter, or manner,or both, & that 
 upon this ground, he muR joyn with no Ibcicty in any part of Gods worfhipat all. 
 The advancing of every finall difference to this height , is tf^c which will bring 
 all to confufion, if men walk uniforme to their own principles. It is well obferved 
 by Matter /. Da. that unleffe men will yield Co much favour each to other in fome 
 difference of opinions, a diflblving not onely of Churches, but of humane focieties 
 alfb muft neceflarily follow, & not onely not two Minillersjbutnottwo men fliould 
 live together, which were to put off even humanity it felfe, 
 
 Sixcly , wee have credibly heard that you hold felIow£hip with profeffcd, ric^id 
 Separatitts without any acknowledgment of their errour.and receive them as mem- 
 bers, or communicate with them in the priviledges of the Churchy though you pro- 
 fefle you approve not their opinion or praftice. And if in godly wifdome, you can 
 fee grounds tojoyn with them , we marvell you fhould be fo timorous in this par- 
 ticular. 
 
 Seventhly, if you judge the practice of fuch godly Minifters , fcandalous to them 
 that feparate from the ordinance, becaufe it is not adminiftred in this, or that, but in 
 a ftintcd form. It is a fcandall taken, and not givenj and by forbearing , if to con- 
 firme men in errour, be to fcandalize them, they fliould offend them the more : yea, 
 they Hiould prejudice the truth, and it might be an occafion to beget nccdicffe fcru- 
 ples in others , and draw them ignorantly fro-m the fellowfliip of the Saints in the 
 holy ord inances of God, and ^rengthen them who by yourownc confc/Tionjare 
 run too far into Schifme already. 
 
 Ill POSITION. 
 That the childreti of gQdly and approved ^hriftia^s , are mt to he bdpttz.ed unttll 
 their parent i be Jet members of fome particular Coyj^recration 
 IV POSITION. 
 7 hat the Parents themfelvesythough of approved ptety , are mt to be received to 
 the Lords S upper, tifttill the j be admitted a^ fet U^embers, 
 
 Anfrv^ 
 
 THefe two Pofitions may be maintained with one and the fame defence , being 
 fomewhatcoincidcnt,and thciforc wc joyn them as if they were butone.Tnere^ 
 fore to prcvcat all mittakes^it may plcafe you to cake notice that wc are not of their 
 
 judg. 
 
The Reply to t he Afifwer of the third and fourth Portions, 1 7 
 
 judgement who rcfufc ail religious communion with fuch as are not Church Mem' 
 bers ^ nor doe wee appropriate communion in this priviledgeofthefealsonly to 
 the Members of our own Churches , excluding ail other Churches of Chrift from 
 the fame, though they may be through errour or humane frailty defc(fliye in fomc 
 matters of order, provided that the liberty of our Churches be prefcrved> of receiving 
 fux:h fatisfavftion as is meet ( as well by Letters of recommendation , or otherwise 
 if it be requifite) concerning thofe whom wee admit unto fellowfliip in the fcals. 
 For as wc account it our duty to kecpe the unity of Ipirit inviolate with any, in 
 whom we diiccrne any fruits of the (pirit, fo we hold our fclves bound to difchargc 
 this duty, according to order. Spiiituall comunion in prayers, holy conlerenccs & o- 
 ther religious anions oflikc nature we maintain with al godly per fanS; though they 
 be not in Church order:But Church communion we hold onely with Church mem- 
 bers admitting to fcllowfhip of the feals the known and approved,& orderly recom- 
 mended members of any true Church . But into fcllowfhip of the cenfures, adiiric- 
 rance of members and choice of Officers , onely the members of that particular 
 Church whereof thpy and we (any of us) ftand members. Thefc things being pre- 
 mifcd, the confiderations whereupon our judgement and pradtice is fwayed for ad- 
 miniRration of the Seals onely to fuch as are in order of a true vifible Church arc 
 thefethatfoirovv. 
 
 Repl;. 
 
 WHat IS here premifed to prevent all miflakes, doth fecm more to raifc 
 then to abate fcruples if wc miftake not your meaning. You refufc not 
 all religious communion wirh all that are not Church members, and 
 fo much they profeflejwho formerly have gone for , and profefTed themfclvcs Sepa- 
 ra^ifls from our AfTcmblies.You do not appropriate this priviledge of the Seals one- 
 ly to the members ofyour own Churches, excluding all other Churches of Chrift 
 from the fame ; If your meaning be onely this , that you deny not the Sacraments 
 adiDinirtied in other Churches to be the true Sacrament? of Chrift for fubf^ance, 
 then you afcrihc little more to the Churches of Chrifl in this.then to the Synagogue 
 of Satan, the Church of Rome, For you will not deny Baptifinc adminiftred a- 
 mong them to be true for fubflance : If you deny not to have fcllowdiip with them 
 in \tc Seals, and to admit them to the Sacrament, and to communicate with them: 
 then cirher your judgment is contrary to your pra(^ice , or you exclude the Chur- 
 ches ci England from the number of true vifiblc Churches of Chrifl, which is to ^'^'' 
 /troy what you formerly builded, and here profelTe. All poilible care to keep die 
 Ordinances of God from contempt, we allow and commend, provided you go not 
 beyond die Lords warrant, and deny not the priviledges of the Church to them, to 
 whom they are due by divine appoinnnent , nor the name and title ofChurch to 
 thofe rocieties,jwhich God hath plentifully bleflfed with means of arace, have recei- 
 ved the Tables and Scals,a5d have encrcd into Covenant with hislHighneffe. Your 
 
 E> liberty 
 
iS The reflj ts the a}ifwer to the third and fourth V opt km. 
 
 tibcrty Co receive fach facisfaflion as i-s meec, is not called intoquefHon 9 nor whe- 
 ther you are to keep the bond of the Spirit iiiviolace according to order. But whe- 
 ther this be to kzz^ t:hc*bond ofthe Spirit inviolate {yiz.^ to exchide from the Sacra- 
 ment true vihble bclicvcrs^or knowne recommended ChnlHans, formerly members 
 of viliblc Churches among us; and their children ;becaufe they are not membersCas 
 you fpeak) in Church Order. And whether God alloweth to put this difference be- 
 tween Church II ebcrs of your focieties & other vifiblc believers walking in hohncs, 
 though not admitted members of any focicty according to your Church order, as to 
 receive the oncthough members of another focicty, unto the Seals, and to debar the 
 other and their children. Theie arc the things to be confidered in thelc prefcnt pofi- 
 tipns. Sx\A firii we will examint your Realons for your judgment and practice by 
 themfelves, and then fofar as wc judge meet , try your anfwers to the objCw^ions 
 jou make again^l it. 
 
 X ConftderatioH^ 
 
 THc Seals Bapti^in 8: the Lords Supper are given to the Church, as a privilcdgc 
 peculiar therto in ordinary difpcn fa tion. Indeed the preaching of the Word is not 
 fb, being an ordinance given not onely for the edifying of the Church already ga- 
 thered, but alfo for the gathering of men to the Churches that yet are withouttwher- 
 as the difpenfing ofthe Seals is G\^% Ordinance , given onely for the edifying of 
 the Church being gathered, and not for the gathering of it : And becaufe there is 
 now, »o univerfali vifible Church on earth wherein the Seals are difpen ced , there 
 being tio place,nor time , nor Officers, nor Ordinances appointed in the New Te- 
 fla r.ent by Chrift our Lord , for any fuch Affcmblies as the lewes had under 
 mio[ei. 
 
 In remains that the Chriftian Churches, whciiiunto thefe priviledges were given, 
 are congregationall, confifting onely of (b many as may and do meet together ordi- 
 narily in one place for the publike worfhipping of God, and their own edifying. 
 Hence it is that we read lb much in the New Tcftament of the Churches in the 
 plurall number , the Churches of Chrirt , the Churches of God , 
 ?,iim\6 16. the Churches ofthe Saints : and not onely when they were of divers 
 I C^^r-i 1 16. Nations, the Churches ofthe Gentiles^ but alfo of the fame Nation, 
 % ^^i^' The Churches o^ Inded , and not onely when that Country was of 
 
 Gil \ xxl large extent and circuit, the Churches of Ap^ , out alfo of a finall 
 
 1 Thcfp.i.i4, part ofthe Country, The Churches of GaUtia : yea, when congre- 
 I COY 16 19. gations in feverall Cities are fpoken of They are called Churches<as 
 ^'i"' *• , the Churches of/er^faiemxhe Churches at Anttoch.To wind up all, 
 
 & 19 ?7. * feeing the Churches |in the Gofpeli are congregational! , and that 
 
 & 1 5.15.58. Baptifme and the Lords Supper (being Church priviledges) belong 
 onely to the Churches, it will follow , that as City priviledges be- 
 long cncly to Citizens and their children : fo baptifme and the Lords Supper being 
 
 Church 
 
The Reflj to the Anfwe r eft he 1 1 ird ^f^dfcurth Pfjltions, I p 
 
 Church priv I ledges 3 belong onely to the members of particular Churches , and 
 their (ttd. And that ktmofigillum [(^Httur domnty to apply them to others 
 what is it but to abufe them? As a feal of a corporation is abufed if added to con- 
 firmc thtgrantofpriviledges which are peculiar to a»yTowne corporate to one 
 that being no free- man of that corporation is uncapable thereof 
 
 IF by the Church be underftood the Society of men , profcfHng the entire faith of 
 Chriil, the feales are given unto it as a peculiar priviledge; butif by the Church 
 you underftand onely a congregationall aflembly m Church order, the feales were 
 never appropriated to it. But to examine every thing in order as it is pro* 
 pounded. 
 
 I The Seales, Baptifme, and the Lords Sunpcr, are given to tiic Church as pri- 
 viledges peculiar thereunto , not or^^tly in ordinary (as you fay) but 
 alfo in extraordinary clifpenfation. True baptifme is not without the Eph.4.'4,j. 
 Church, fcuc within it. an ordinance given to it, and they that arc 
 oaptifed^muft needcsbeofaChurch. The Sacraments are the feales of the Cove- 
 nant to the faithfull , which is the forme of the Church, and when fnr fubftancc 
 rightly ufed, tokens and pledges of our fpirituall admit- 
 tance and entertainment into the Lords family, and Sym- A^^tl^-^i. Gen r.io, 
 bolls or teflimonies whereby the people of God are di^in- ^//^*r ^*'^A°^^ r 
 guiflied from all other Nations. This is moft certain, as in ^i^cuCpl^jj^, ^^^' ^^^ * 
 the ordinary; fo in the extraordinary difpenfation of the 
 Sealcs.as is confirmed by the Texts of Scripture alleadged in the Margine* For 
 the Apoftles (as you layj diipenced the feales in an extraordinary way, but the 
 feales difpenced bytheApoftles wereSeales of the covenant, priviledges peculiar 
 to the Church^priviledges of fpirituall admittance and entertainment into the Lords 
 family. 
 
 And when you (ay the difpenchig of the Seals is an Ordinance given onely for the 
 cdity ing of the Church being gathercu,and not for ^he gathering of it,mu^ it not be 
 underftood in extraordinary ,difpen{ation as wel as ordinaryrTo what pupo^ chen 
 are thofe words (in ordinary difpenfation) added to the propofition ? ifthercby you 
 would inti natethat the Sacraments be not the peculiar priviledges of the Church, 
 and Sea les of the Covenant in extraordinary difpenfation, it is evidently croflfi^ 
 to the Text you cite , and to your felves afterward. If you r meaning be, that in 
 ordinary diipenfation the Sacraments doe of right belong to them onely, who bee 
 ,fet members of a viiible congregation, it is all one widi the condufion, that which 
 IS in queRion and {Lould be proved, and that which this very Scripture doth plen- 
 tifully difprove' 5 for they that were baptifed were not fet members of a- particular 
 congregationall Church whereunto they were baptifed , nor in a Church way be- 
 fore baptifme (as is evident and granted by the moft of your felves) b^t^yb 
 
 Da " ■ zij 
 
10 The reply to the anfwer of the thtrd and fourth Pofuions . 
 
 dime folcmnly admicced into the Church, and then it is not.for yaur purpofc • or 
 they were Ice iiieinbcrs (as fomc of the brethren fceme to contend in anfwer to the 
 objc^ion framed againll this confidcration) and then the words arc more then iu- 
 perfl jous. Added, they were ro prevent the objeilr^n which you fbrefaw might be 
 made from the Apo(Ues pra^5^ice and example but (o as they cut afunder the iinews 
 of the conlideration ic fclfc, and make it of no force. For as thofebcleivcrs were 
 of the Church : fo are approved Chriflians and their feed among us: therefore the 
 privilcdgcs of the leaks belong unto the T), 
 
 2 Andasthefealcs; fo is tbv' word offalvation preached and received a privi- 
 Icdge of the Church. If by the preaching of the word you underiland nothing but 
 the tender of fal nation or the publifhingofthewillofGod, concerning theAI- 
 vationofmarh whether by private or publike perfons ; it is not proper to the 
 Church but an ordinance given for the gathcriiig of men to the Church, and no:- 
 only for the edifying of the Church. For the Apo^Ies firft preached tothcGen- 
 tifcs when Infidel?, that, they might be converted . And we doubt ilorbut a Mini" 
 iier or private Chriftiancomming into a country of Infidells, may as occafion U 
 offered 5 and as they fhall be inablcd> inftruii and perfwade them to receive the. 
 fiithof Chrifi: but if by the preaching ofche word be meant the giving of the word, 
 to a people,to abide and continue with^hem> and confequently their receiving of 
 'it at leaf} iiiprofcffion then it is proper to the Church of God. 
 Uv »,.f ^ The word makes dil^iples to Chrift, and the word given to a people 
 
 T>f//Mj. It. is Gods covenanting wich them, and the peoples receiving this 
 5ci€>i7.i8. Word and profcffing their faith in God through Icfus Chrift is the* 
 taking of God to bee their God. The la wes and (iatutes which. 
 '^e^FH \ i% ^^ o^^^ ^^ Ifraeli> was the honour and ornament to- that Nation, 
 ^oNeh\\i, andateftimony that God had feparated them from all other pco- 
 A£l, J. 38. Luk' p^C' even the Gentiles themfclves being ludges. The word of recon-> 
 16. 19 % cor 5 ciliation is fent and given to the world reconciled in lefus Chrift, 
 i$&ii<.veut anxi they that receive the doflrir'-r law, or word of God are the. 
 33.3- ^' -3^ D4fciprP5, fervants and people of God. 
 
 In your fccondconfideraiion you intimate that there is a two fold preaching, 
 the one by office and authority, the other in Common charity, or how ever clfein. 
 may be called. For thus you write. God hach joyned to preach ( vU byorfiTce) and" 
 to baptize together, therefore we may not fcpa rate them. Now to preach unro,. 
 <hac is to in(iru(^^ or counfcil in charity is a duty which may be performed to 
 an infidell, bat to preach by office, is proper to diem that ar« called 
 Xobtn agiiaft ^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ .^^^ {^ ^o be taught atid in^cuflcd by Officers in the 
 BcaiP 159. Q^^^^]^ is proper to the Church.. 
 
 To ^ayc paftorswBofaallfccd.vvithknowMgc and undcrftanding is a gift of 
 
 matsimoniair- 
 
 lO; 
 
Thf Rtfly to the a»ftf>er of the third and fourth Pofihns, 21 
 
 matrimoniall love which God vouchfafcth unto his Church. 
 ^1/"^ ^""VdJ' The Apofties firft ga4:hered Churches and then ordained ciders 
 Mt if x6. In the ^^ everie Citie or Cnurcti^io that it is proper to the Church to be 
 famcverfe ihe fed and guided by true fpirituall payors who teach and bleffe 
 fime perfons are \^ ^he name ofthe Lord. And if the word preached and recei- 
 ^ipr^-f s^^ ^nd"^^^ ^^ ^^ ^ certaine note ofthe true Church,thev that have intyrc- 
 ChritHans f^^g,\\6 ly received the word oF falvation and have Pa^^ors godly and 
 117 2U &c. alfo faithfull to feede and guide the.n, they and their feed have right 
 ^'^i^ T J and intereft unto the fealcs in order. 
 
 Moreover tFte true worfhip of God is an infeparable and infalUble marke ofthe 
 true Church c/God, for where Chrift is, there is his Church. This is the prcroga- 
 riyc ofthe church.The Prince (hall be in the midft of them, and he (liall go in when 
 they goe in, &c. And ^hiift faithr where 2,. or 9. arc met together 
 See Lava' cr^on ^" my name there am I in the mid deft among them. And for cer- 
 Er{ck ^"^i^^^ 1^* f^^" ^^^^y ^^^ gathered in the name ofChrift that being lawfuJly cal- 
 ao. ler.i^^ 9. led doe atfanble to worfliip God and call upon his same in the 
 TBcdiation of lefus Chrift. In times paft, the Church was acknowledged by 
 \9t, ^4 14 the feare of God? and entyre Service of his Majeftie, by thcpro- 
 fcffin'g ofthe true faith and faitiifuU calling upon Gods name. The figncs of Apo- 
 ftol ike Churches arc thefe. The continuance in the Apo^Ues doflrinc 
 ^x^aI^ and feilowfliip, and breaking of bread and prayer.And if faidi, true and 
 . .* livelyCthoughmixedwithmany doublings and errors^ make a man a 
 
 living member of Ic fus Chriftjthe entyre profeflioH of true faith joyned with holy, 
 nede oflife in fome mcafure anfwerablc thereunto, makes a man a true member 
 of thevifible Church. And if the feales belong to the Church in right and orderly dif- 
 penfatiomthcy that joy nc together in the true worfhip of God, according to his 
 vvill, with godly and faithfull paitors, they have right and title to the Sacraments 
 according to divine inftitution. 
 
 Thirdly, that there is now fto viiiblc ^itholike CHiirch inyour {enfewillea- 
 fily bcegranrcd./'.f.there is nouniverfall fociety confiding of all fuch as arc ac- 
 counted or to bee efteemed ChriRians,fubjfded to cHie or many vniverfall Paftors 
 or guides, vvherwichall fubordinatcs muft communicate in fome facrcd thing-s 
 which may make them one Church and which may and can be performed by that 
 vuivcrfall and head Church only. Such an vniverfall Chriftian Church-Clirift 
 never ordained, no not in the dayes of the Apofties, to whom all the care of all the 
 Giurches^ was committed. The Churches planted by the Apofties had all the 
 fame Tubftantiall lavves and cuflomes, the fame guides and officers for kihde, the 
 fame ordinances of worffiip and meanes of Salv-ation .• But one fleck or Society 
 in the fore mentioned acceptation they were not.bccaulc they were but fubordinate 
 to oncYifiblehead,Chrift,with which they were to hold union. and communion- 
 
 D. H ' ia 
 
2i Tlx Reflj to the Anfwer of the third and fourth ^ofitions. 
 
 in fome worflup co be performed by them all jointly ailemblcd at fomcfpeciall 
 Iblemnicy, nor fub/eiled to the governnieat of any fuprcame tribunall conftantly 
 to be crc^^led and continued among them, 
 
 Neverthcleffejn fbme refpeils ofrea- 
 As Cli ift is that one great Pador , fo h^itbhee fbn, the vifible Church , may be called 
 gen Tilly one tb'd and flock, io^^» io.i6. E\tck. theChurch,rheepfoIdor flockofChrift. 
 »4iz,t? which IS lijs Church, ash'^raith. And r c \ i t r • t j n- 
 
 ]:.yflk the pock ef^ypapn ." Jn. E^e^ 3 ,. ^^VV^'u^'at fociety or body myfli- 
 gi, ^y7!f^p,cm 1.8. Sure his ihathetis noac call of Chrift be one, this Church mih- 
 of ChriftsOiccperlfibly, or in rtfped ot" men tant in like fort is one : the unity of 
 which is without Chrifts Ihccpfold , for there is vvhich fecicty confifts in that unifbrmi- 
 ore n.crpfold a.d one i^^^^phcard^ lohn lo.i^. ^.^ ^^ ^ ^^^^i ^^^ thereunto 
 
 ^ belonging 5 have by rea Ion of that one 
 
 Lord whofc fervants they all are , and profeffe themfclves, that one Spirit whereby 
 they are animated as the body by one foul ; whereby they believe in Chrift , and 
 which they acknowledge and profefle, that one Baptifme inward and outward, 
 whereby they put on Chrift, and are initiated. 
 
 This fociety is one in the inward frnj- 
 
 Hieron.tom.i.'Ep.g^. Nee altera Ro- tioii aiia enjoying ot the benefits of 
 ma tirbit Ecclefia, altera totins orbU f at- Chrifts Death and Refurrc<flion , and in 
 ijlimanda ejl,& Gallia,^ Britannia>C^ outward profedion of thofc things which 
 Afia? &c* & omnei harbarA Natienes fupernaturally appertain to the very ef^ 
 vi^um ChriBum adorant , umm ohfer- fence of the Church,and are neccffarily re- 
 vam regnlam ver'ttatis^ quired in every Chriftian^ th \% acceptation 
 
 of the word is not unufuall in Scripture. 
 
 As God hath fet fome in the Church. His bodies fake which is the Church. The 
 
 Church viz,^ whereof Vaul was made a Minifter , and whercunto the reft of the 
 
 Apoftles were ordained , which was the Catholike vifible Church, 
 
 Yol' 1 • ^^* ^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ '^^^ profcfling the faith of Chrift throughout the 
 
 iVo!*ii!ii. world, divided into many particular Churches whereof fome arc 
 
 pure, others impure, /bme morCjothers leffe found . Hereunto it may 
 
 be added, that every multitude and fociety of believers are indefinitely called the 
 
 Church, I perfecuted the Church of God. The houfc of God which is 
 
 iCcr.ij.^. the Church of the living God. In which fenfe all the Churches 
 
 Th't^'^I' ' ^^ ^^^ world may truly be called one. And thus the Apoftle Peter 
 
 X Ti'mAA J. writing to many difperfed Churches, who could not aftemble in one 
 
 1 P^.5.1. place nor be fed by one Shepherd, fpcaketh of them fingularly as one 
 
 flock. Feed the flock of God which is atnong you. But that flock 
 
 are the ftrangers difperfed through Pontw, gdatia, AJl(t, tlafpadoaa. and 'Bythimai 
 
 which could not poftibly joinc together in the Ordinances 
 
 TAfioxgsJnm emnft^ of Worfliipl, or make one diftinft congregated affembly." 
 
 And 
 
Threflyto the ar^fivir af the thirdand fomh fofttiom. 23 
 
 fedgrex nnus (jm d And if the CathoUke Militant Church be one Society , the 
 Apoflolis omnibus h- Seals that arc given as a prerogative to the Church aregiven 
 nanimi confenfu p^f. unto ic.and the true Members of the Catholike Church have 
 catur. CytJr.^^W- right and tide to them in due order,thongh they be notad- 
 tate Ecclefi<£. mitted into the Church fellowfhip you fpeak of. 
 
 For as the flock or fbciety is one : fo is 
 Etfi pa/lores mulii fumw, umm tanten the Miniftery, Faith, Covenant, and Sa- 
 gregcm pafcimw , C'ypr./. 5 . Epiflola craments, which are given as a communL- 
 I J. Cum fit aChriHo una Seek fia per on prerogative unto the whole Church, 
 totum mmdtim in miilta membrA divifa and not appropriated to this or that pare 
 ttem E^ifcopatPts mw Epifcoporum ormember, asfeparated from the whole; 
 mtiltorpfmconcordtmmerodtfufwy&c. which is further evidenced hereby, that 
 Cypt'^.4'^/>.7* fometime it hath , and too often it may 
 
 fall out, that a Chri^ian may be a true 
 member of the univerfall vifible Church (i.e. he may hold, profefle, and maintain 
 that holy Catholike Faith,pure,and undefiled, without which no man can be favcd) 
 whofortheprefentisno afluall member of any particular or vifible ^oc\tiy in 
 Church order. As for example, a man may be cut ofFby Excommunication,froni 
 all commerce with the prefent vifible Church wherein hee was bred 
 M;;9.ii..?i. andborn, when hee is not cut off from the Catholike , Orthodoxall 
 &i2..^i & Church. Hee may be deprived of participation of the Ordinance in 
 A'h.vm(jns may every particular fociety^when his right and title to them is much bet- 
 be for an ex- ter then thefe who have moftinjuriouflycafl: him out , or debarred 
 ample. him of the means of falvation. 
 
 The communion of Saints, whether vifible or invifible is the effecland proper- 
 ty of the Church Catholike , and agreeth to the feverall parts and menibers there- 
 of as they be members of that body under the head , and if particular Churches 
 havecommuuion together it muG of neceflity be, that they bee parts and mem- 
 bers of the whole body which is one. , 
 
 4. Though there be no univerfall congregation or affembly nor can be imagi- 
 ned; yet there are and have beene many vifible affemblies'or focieties,, true Church- 
 es of Chrifl, to whom the Prerogative of the Seals is given, which have not beene 
 united and knit together^ in Church-order into one congregationall body or fbci- 
 ety, For every fociety in covenant with God is the true Church of God : for 
 what is it to be the flock, people or (lieepe of God, but to be the Cburch of God? 
 And where there is a Covenant-there is the people of God, They that 
 L^tftu arc of the faith of Abraham y are the children and Iced of Abr^hAm^ 
 v^ftf.i. Ji jj. ^^^ wittiin the Covenant of Abraham (though but two or three) and 
 Hih,i9;i9^ fo of die fame Chiirdi with himby that covenant, Tbc commumcati- 
 
 ^^- OH' 
 
24 Tl^ Re fly to the anftver of the third and fourth Po fit ions. 
 
 Rsb i-a ftfl ^" *"^ accepting oftKc tables of the covenant is an unc^oubteH te^Qw 
 Bern.^aA 17. ^^^ people in covenant or confedcracc, but every fociecy profclling ehc 
 iv^/w.4.iii8. true and entire faith, joyning in prayer and thankcfgiving, receiving 
 Gen. ix. ?. the truth of God to dwell among chcm, and in fome mcafure confor- 
 Gj/..^^,7,8, j^^jpg diemfelvcs to the obedience of Gods Commandcincnts, is inco- 
 ^6.agak(t venant with Go.*l. Itis/imply ncccflary to the being of a Church 
 Bcr}a,iii. ^^at it be laid upon Chrift the foundation , which being done, the 
 remaining of what is forbidden , or the want of what is commanded, 
 cannot puttke fociety from the title or right of a Church, For Chrift is the founda- 
 tion and head corner ^onc of the Church , and a people €omming unto Chrift^ 
 united untohim^built upon him, having communion with him and growing up-in 
 him,are the trac Church of God : and if the feals be annexed to the covenant by 
 God himlclfe,as wie cannot deny a people in covenant to be the Churxii,fo wc niuft 
 not deny their right and title to the Sacraments. If therefore the meaning of the 
 propoiition be>that the feales be given to the Church, that isi to true and found 
 Chriftians,and peopk in covenant with God,as a priviledge whether in ordinary 
 or extraordinary difpenfation we accept it as good and found, but it makes againft 
 your judgement and pra^licc in keeping away fuch as have right and title to the 
 ordinances. If you meane the feales arc given to the ^hurch, that is , onely to fee 
 members of fome particular fociety coinbined by covenant (as it if among you^ 
 we cannot receive it, becaufe it implieth a diftinflioo not taught in Scripture , and 
 croffe to your felvcs. And for the thing it felfe the Scripture hath nothing but many 
 things againft it as hath beene fhewed. 
 
 5 If it be granted that the feales are the prerogative of a particular vifible 
 Church, known and approved Chriftians among us, and their Cecd are members of 
 true and vifible Churchesjarrd fo to be efteemed among you before they be entred 
 into Church memberfhip as you call it. For every fociety profefling the intire and 
 true faith.and joyning together in the right ufe of the Sacraments in 
 Sec Mr- l»T>. matters fubftantiall is the true Church of God, and every viable 
 Apo!^ It, sect, helccver receiving the word and profe/fing the true intire faith^ad- 
 xam.p.i 7. fitted to the right and lawful! participation of the Sacraments is a 
 vifible member of the true Church,ifhe have neither renounced that fociety, nor de- 
 ferved juftly to be caft out by excommunication or Church ccnfure. For the intire 
 profeffion of the truth, the dwelling of the truth among men, the riglit ufe of the Sa- 
 craments (which is ever joyned with truth of Do6lrine, and to be cfteemed by it} 
 is proper to them that be in covenant with God, And they that truly partake of 
 the Seales muft: needes be of a Church/or the feales are not without but within the 
 Church an ordinance given unto it, and if they be true members of the true Church- 
 es of Jefus Chrifljother Churches, are bound to hoid'communion with them in the 
 ordiaance of vvorfhip as divine providence (hall ininiftcr occafion* 
 
 lb 
 
The Reflj to the Anfiver of the third attdfonnh Pofttms. - 2$ 
 
 Inanrwcrtotlicninthpofitionyou fay the members ofother Churches > v^ell 
 known and approved by vcrtue of communion wich Churches, doc muiually and 
 with ^ood acceptance comir.unicate each of them at others ^hutches, even fo oKcn 
 as Gods providence leads them thereunto , and themfelves defire it. In your pre- 
 face to this conhdcration jou (ly yoa admit to fcllov^fhip of the fcalcs, the known, 
 approT ed,and orderly recommended mccnbers of any true ^urch , and it knowiie 
 and approved ChrKtians, members of bur Churches comming over into New E»g^ 
 land.dizli dc/irccitherto have their children baptized^or to be admitted themfclvcs 
 to the Lords Supper before they be let members of any foe iety there, we defircto 
 know upon what grounds from God you can deny them, ifyouacknowledrc 
 our Churches, Miniilery, and Sacraments, to be true and of God Cas you profcfic) 
 and the memVrs of.tbc Church be kno mi and approved^ orderly recommended 
 
 liUtoyou. .;>;:• -:{J v.<] ? "• , 
 
 Icis thcprivilcdgc ofChriftians bapt'iied th'cnjfelves , and walking in the faith, 
 that their children fliould have right to baptiflne in all true Churches in the world. 
 It is the priviledgeofChrifiians lawfully, and julily admictcd to the Lords Supper 
 in one visible Church, and walking in covenant with God , that they have right 
 tothispriviledge in all Churches profclling their intir^ faith , and you mufl Hkw 
 juft and found reafons from God of your /adgemenc and praf^icc in debarring 
 their feed from baptifme,and parents themfclves from the Supper, or dfe(coufe 
 the words of a reverend Elder among you, ina cnfeoflelTcimpor- ^ ^ ^^^, 
 xance, andnot concerning fo manyj you will be found guilty of s'c^' ex.^m.'p^ii. 
 bidding to the words , and making eleven Coniinandemcnts , and 6?, Si iB. 
 fcing up humane cuftomes, andfeliewill again/t Gods appoint- 
 ment. For the Sacraments arc given to the Church as a priviledgc peculiar there- 
 unto i but you deny this priviledgc to the true vi/ible members of the Church, (as 
 your fclvesconfeffe.l/For ifthe Mmiftcrsbe t'heMiniikrsofChrift, and their ccn- 
 grcgations the Churches of Chrift', then knowne and approved ChriRinnsarc 
 jnembers of the Church. In your opinion the members of the Jcwiili Chuvcli 
 might be received unto baptiline, upon confcfllon of the ChriHian faith, before they 
 wercentrcd into^hurchfellowfhip, and it is more then Orange to us that you 
 irjould not thinke the true vifible members of the Churches of Chri^ to hive as 
 much title and intereft to the Seales , as the members of the Je^'ifb /-'burch^o the 
 Sacrament of Baptifine. ' 
 
 6 The diftin<^ Churches mentioned in the New Te^ament, it is not certain that 
 zhzy were congregauionall focieties confix ingonely of fo many as might and did 
 incete together ordinarily in one place at one time for the publike worftiip of God^ 
 and their own edification, and if this were granted it would not carry the weight 
 ^that was laid upon it > But bccaufe it may make way for the clearing of fome other 
 
 E points 
 
26 The re^jf t$ tht Atif-v^er of the third and fuHTth Pojitions, 
 
 points pertaining to difciplinc and Church orders, weintrcatlcavctofet downc, 
 and dcfire you to examine what may be objcflcd againH it. We will not infill up- 
 on this chat the lead circuitc wherein there is mention of ChurcheS; is aiDpIccnough 
 tocontaincromedioccfTes'and the leartCity, populous enough to 
 Buczr dfff.fp^ make many numbcrfbmc congregations. Nor upon this, that to 
 J a .\y& ef 4b. iTicete at one time and one place, as one afTcmbly is a thing mee re- 
 ly accidenrary to the unity ofthe Church and fociety Ecclcfiarticall 
 v,hich is fliil one , when they arc dilpericd afunder, and no particular man of that 
 fociety at fir^ remaining now alive. The number of bcleevers was fo great in 
 fbme Cities ..s chcy could not conveniently mcetc in one place as one aflembly to 
 ^'orfhip the Lord according to his will ar d for the«r edifying. That there was a 
 Church gathered in the City of Samaria by the miniltery of *?^^//f/> will not be de- 
 nycd, for thcy recei\cd the word and were baptiled , b.it that the Church in thic 
 City vvasoncly acongrcgaiionallafTembly is more then can probably be conclu- 
 ded out of Scrip:ure. For the whole Cicy or the greatcft part could not ordinari- 
 ly affemblc in one place to their edification : But the whole City 
 jH,S,4.&if ofS^imarta, in a manner, (as it is probable) imbraced the faith. 
 4 As the who'eCity from thcleaft to the greatcft had given heede to 
 
 & I S ' z * ^ Sim:>» MdgHt before, fo to ?hiUl^ now when he preached Chrift> 
 
 And the Text faith exprefly that Samarta received the Gofpell. 
 dUs 1, 4t. TheChriftian Church at /<fr»/^/^»? was one and diftinil, but it 
 %6^'^/^ grew and increaicdfir^l to 3000. then to 5000. afcerwards cnulci^ 
 tudcs of men a«d women were added, and the multitude of Di l- 
 ci pics increa fed . it is alfb noted that a company ofthe Priefts received the faith. 
 The Syriackehath it ofthe Jews, (fcii.) inhabiting Judoa, but the Greekf, Ara^ 
 itian, vulgar> Chrifofioms Sc Ethiopians approve the former, and the number ofthe 
 £ V-*- 3^j37> Prices was not fmalf : there is mention alio of millions of bcleever?*. 
 38. And when all the Apo^Hes, or thegreateft part of them remained at 
 
 A^.i.i & 8 I, Jcrufalcm for a time continuing in the miniftcry of the word and 
 Ix iJe^'i ^€. P^^y^^' ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^y "^ig^it lioc it the more earneftly and diligent- 
 c^Ii 1?.-*$. * ly,left the care ofthe poorc to others : how can we thinke but that 
 Church did grow exceedingly, and the number of bcleevers thereto 
 be more then could fitly meete ordinarily in one congregation^ Without queftion 
 tkc number of bcleevers in Anttoch was not fiTiall,of which it is faid exprefly, that 
 a great number belcevcd, turned to the Lord and that a great multitude was ad- 
 ded to the Lord by the preachings of ^<tr/J4^^/> and that? Wand 
 ^ci II. n. 'Barnabas continued theic one whole yeerc preaching the word of 
 God, and teachisg the multitudcfb that the Difciplcs were firft called 
 UB,\\ «+?^cbriftians oxAmioch, After that this Church was vifited by Paid 
 
 and 
 
The J^eflj to the jinfwer of the third and fourth P/ffitions, i j 
 
 Ait • et 2r\^B4r»A^aSy who continued there teaching and preaching the 
 t^i/xtis,z*i Word of God with many others alfb, and may wee notthinkc 
 5♦,J^ ' that this Church did quickly rife to fuch bigneiTc that they 
 
 could hot well aflemblc in one congref;ation as now wee cali 
 tliem ? 
 
 It will cafily be credited that the number of believers was not fmall at Efhefat, 
 if wc call to minde that when Paul had been there but two ycers, all 
 ^Ss T9 lo. they that dwelt in AJla had heard the word of the Lord both lev^s and 
 &i6.f & (;^/^,-^,i/, that a great doore and effedluall was opened to himat jE"- 
 /<??* ^V f ?. P^^ff^^> That the art for making Shrines , and DUnaes Temple was in 
 danger to be fct at nought > and that thofe that had ufed curious arrs, 
 qame and burnt their books in the fight of all men^ which could not be done wldi- 
 out great danger unto the Church, unleflic a great part of the City had believed, 
 where a Church did comprehend a City with its Suburbs and the Country circum^ 
 jaccnt, f.e, the believers who profeffed the faith within that circuit. It might well be 
 that the number did fo increafc through the extraordinary blefling of God , which 
 accompanied the preaching of the word in thoic primitive times, and firft planting 
 ©f the heavenly Kingdome , that they could not well meet ordinarily in one place, 
 and yet continued one Society • For when a number is gathered in fmall Villages, 
 or fomc added to the number already gathered , it is not meet they (liould be ncg* 
 Icded bccaufe fmalL nor divided from the body, becaufc the number not competent 
 to make an intire and perfe^ body of it {elfe.Thc increafe of the Churches doth re- 
 quire an increafe of Elders, and (if they grow to bigneffe more then ordinary) an 
 increafe of places for their affembling, when the eficnce of the vifible Church is not 
 changed, nor one multiplied or divided into many. And it is more available for the 
 good of the Church, and further removed from all ambition, if the Society fhall al- 
 femblc occafionally in divers places as parts and members of the body, tlien to con- 
 fiitute a difHnfl free Society confining of a few Believers,not fit to make up an in- 
 tire body contrary to the precedent examples of the Apo^lles. In times of grievous 
 and hot persecution the Churches of God could notaflemble in any great number 
 in publick places, but have been compelled to meet in Woods, Caves, Dens , and 
 dark comers, as the Lord hath offered opportunity , one and the fame Society ui 
 fundry places : So that either it is not effentiall to the Church to meet together in 
 one place ordinarily, or their Society is broken off by per{ccution,when ihcir meet- 
 ing together in one place is interrupted. It is faid by fome where the Church grew 
 
 greater, fometimcs by the fuddain and extraordinary converfion of 
 ^w?9tf°*'"^ more then could well fo affemble, then was there prefently a difper- 
 
 fion of the former, and a multiplication of more particular Affem- 
 l)lies. But in the Srripturcs quoted no fuch thing doth appearc, but rather the con- 
 
 E a trafy 
 
^ 8 The Rc^ly to the Ar.frrer of the third Andfomh Pefttioas, 
 
 trarynshatlr been proved. In afierrimcs when the Cliurch was 
 f-f^^^G't^'^^' ^^JchintheCiticsasofi6?;»^; £;>/?(!•/*/, tAUxmArix , Carthage, 
 Ruj^* " ^^ JernfilemyO-c, the number of Belicycrs did greatly exceed die 
 bigncflcofaconvenicncand ficcing afTembJy which mioht ordi- 
 narily congregate in one place to worfhip God according to his appointment when 
 the ChiTch wns but onr. 
 
 Seventhly . Seeing x.[\q{\ both the Seals in-ordinary and in extraordinary difpenfa- 
 tioM belong to the Church,/^ ^7?, to the faithful), and repentant, taught made Dii-* - 
 ciples, who have received the word, believe, and profeflc the faith, have received the 
 holy Gholl, and vvalke in obedience, who are members of other vifible Churches, 
 or to be mad.' meinbets of a viiible Church for the time being, by admittance unto 
 tlx Sacrarreiirs, and not unro fe: members of congregationall affemblies only. And 
 feeing the god'y and faithful' Minifters ai^ndng us arc the true Minifters of Chrifh 
 and their godly congregations, true ChMrchcs, and knowne, and approved Chrifti- 
 ansjtruc meir.be.s cf vilible Churches formerly baptized? and admitted to the Lords 
 S tprer. This conhdcration is of no weight to juRiHe your opinion and prafllc^in 
 debarringknown and approved Chridians, profiling the faith, members of the 
 true vifiblc Churches smoigft \xs from theLordsSupper, or their feed from Ba- 
 ptifiTjejbccaufe chey be not ycc received as let members of iomc particular cogregati- 
 on amongn.you: And if fuch Believers arc not to be received to the Sealsj we defi re 
 you to confidcr if ever the Sacraments ox'^the New Teflament,were rightly difpenicd 
 in the Church of the NewTeftameuc from the firft Plantation thereof unto this day. 
 The Seale d«3th follow the grant , and as the Sealc is prophaned, if it be put to a 
 falle grant or Charter, fo are the faithfull wronged if the Scale in a lawfull way de- 
 fired, be denied to them that have received the grant , i,e. have 
 } h't dc S.icra.contr. j.jg{^j. ^^^^ jgC^g chrifl:,and communion with him.But the faith- 
 Irr -l^ j^Jg* ^^ ^ fiJ^I who have received the word with gladneffe , believe , and 
 Aitc^f.oilhzS^a: profefTe , be members knownc and approved by other vihblc 
 /,! c 6 fol.iii, Churches>orflich as defireto be admitted menibers of that vifiblc 
 Society for the time by communicating in the ordinance, are al- 
 ready partakers of the grant or charter, have right and intere^ in Chrift, may hw- 
 fully deiirethe Seals , and may be admitted as members for the time being of that 
 particular Society .Therefore to debar fuch, from the Lords Suppcr^, and their feed 
 from BaptiffTie, is againfi the Law of nature, and the po(icive Law of Gody an in- 
 jfi.iry to the faithfull and their feed , a wrong to the Gatholike vi-lible Church , that 
 pirticul \v fociety, and the Paftors themfelVes that fo debar them. They finned grie- 
 voufly who deferred Baptifmc to the end of their life, and the negligence of Pallors 
 and Teachers who did not inftruvft the ignorant and reprove the fu- 
 r>xr dc Pfcp perditions J was great. And is not the feverity/in debarring fuch as 
 ^y t^i 7 • ^j.^y^ jjj^^ dcf re, to be adniitted to the Seals an injury to be repre- 
 hended ? ^Kfp. 
 
The Reply to the A*ifwtr ojthe third and fourth To futons, 25? 
 
 '^^/fe?.2 Confider the ordinary adminiftration of the Scales is limircdtothe 
 ininiftery and the rrnniftery to a particular Church ; therefore the feals alfomu^ 
 neceflarily be proper to the Church and to tl.e members thereof. 
 
 I Thatthaadminifirationofthe fcalcs is hmited to their Mini (tery is evident 
 from the nrft i"^^"^^"®" ^^^^' 28»i9- where God hath joyned (to preach) -z/zz. 
 by office, and {to baptize) together, therefore wee 'may not feparate diem. Tor 
 howfocver: any manmayby the appointment of the Lord and Mafter of the fa,- 
 j^ily^f^onific his minde and deliver his meffage from him to the family, yet the 
 difpenfing of a fitt portion of food to everie one of the houfliold is a branch of 
 the flevv'ards office. Indeed the keies are given to the whole Church yet the excrcijc 
 and difpenfation of them in this as well as in other particulars isconcredited to 
 the Minirters who are called to bee qvmvo\mi \w^'.fmv ^i^,iCor, 4. i. And 
 no Church office can be orderly performed by any> but one that is called thereunto 
 nor will God vouchfaf^ his prefence,and bleffing (wherupon all fpirituall efficacy 
 denends) in an ordinance dilpenfed,but when it is diipcnfcd by thofe whom he hath 
 ordayned and appointed theruntoi 
 
 2 That the miniftery is limited to the Church appe ares as from 
 Ad 14 ? 3 Cdl, evident texts of Scripture : Co alfo upon this ground, i The office is 
 4. 17 I Vet 5. 1 founded in the relation betweene the Church and the officer, wher- 
 Ac£ io.iS fore take away the relatioft, and the office and the worke ceaicth. 
 
 . For where he hath not power, he may not doe an aft of power, 
 and he h^th no powerwhcre he hath not a relation by office. Herein the propor- 
 tion holdeth between an officer of a townc corporate, and of a Church that as the 
 power ofthe former is only within his owne corporation : fo the power of the lat- 
 ter is confined to his cwnc congregation. 
 
 Replj. 
 
 T He proportion is granted that the difpcnfation ofthe Sacraments in the New 
 Tcftamcnt both ordinary and extraordinary is limited totheMiniflery. But 
 in that you alleadge for confirmation^ fomethings may be noted. 
 
 I The firfl: inilitiition of Baptifme is not contained in that paffiigc Math, 28. 
 
 1 9. but confirmed ; For the feales ofthe New Tcftament were inf^ituted by Chrifl 
 
 before his death, and his difciplcs had baptized many which they co\i\d not Aoc bc- 
 
 loh.s^. %. fore. the inflitution ofthe Sacrament. Secondly we fee not how you can 
 
 & 13 xs- apply that text to Preaching by cfficcAvhich according to our expontion 
 
 liiuft bee a difpenfing of a fit portion of food to everie one of the houfliould. For ic 
 
 , .^ is plainc the Apo^lcs were font forth to preach to everie creature 
 
 ' ^' or unto the world, to convert men unco God, to make them difciplcs 
 
 iJr^i ' V9 ^"^ "°^ ^^ preach unto difciplcs only, or members ofthe houChould. 
 
 The Apoftlescertataly ha(4 authority, and preached by authovicy, 
 
 E 3 buL 
 
50 The Re fly to the An^iver ef the thtrd a»d fourth Tofitions. 
 
 ?cr«/f'r^ ^"t th^y preached not CO InfidcIIs and Heathens, as to dilciplcs or 
 ihcrcK^'csin ^'^^^^^^^s of the Church, much Icffe did they give^ a portion to them 
 d.&c ^s to the houfhold which is the preaching by office, which you ac- 
 
 knowledge. Thirdly if under the power of the keyes you compre- 
 hend preaching by office, difpcnl>ng the fcaJes, cafting out, and receiving againe 
 into the bofome of tUc ^urch wee deny the power of the keyes to belong to the 
 Church or community ofthcfaithfull: we cannot find in Scripture that Chrift e- 
 vcr granted fuch power to the faithful], as faithull joyned together in Covenant in 
 In ibc Corporation ^^o(t paflages which fpeake of this power,the execution of this 
 ( ihc Church ) thcic authority is given to them to whom the authoritic is commic- 
 is alwa\es the whole jq^J 
 power of Chrift 
 
 rcfidingwhichyou may call officers for the ufc of it fclfc, to ff hlch it Is txif^dzM thot It can 
 Without officers ufe this power for things fimplynccefliryj as for receiving iti ofnicmbrrs by pr©- 
 feflion ot fairh and confeflion offins, for edifying of them by exhortation and comforts in the 
 ordinaiwre of ptophcrying^andfofor excommunication. Kob, againftB.pfl5.124. 
 
 If the power of the keyes be given to 'the whole ^hurch the Apoftles themfelvcs 
 muft derive their authoritie iniimediatly from the Church, and not from Chritt, for 
 the power muft be derived from them, unto whom it was given ; but their power, 
 and authority was not from the Church, but from Chrift immcdiatly. And iftbc^ 
 difpenfation, and exerci(c of the keyes, be concreditcd to the Minifters ; Doth it" 
 hold in all things or onely in the difpenfation of the Sacraments, and preaching by 
 office ? Doe they difpenfe the feales as the Stewards of Chri^, from whom they re- 
 ceive their authority immediately or as the fervants of the Church,fro?n which they 
 derive their authority ? If in the firft fenfe; the power of the keys is not in the com- 
 munity ofthcfaithfull. Ifinthefecond,theofficeofa Minifter is not the immediate 
 gift ofChrift, nor the Minifter,fo much the fervant of Chrift, as of the'Church,' 
 from whom he mu^ receive lawes, in whofe name he muft doe his office, and to 
 whoni he muft give an account. We could wifti you had explained in what fenfe» 
 you hold the dilpcnfationj and execution of the power of the keyes is concreditcd 
 to the Minifters, and by whom. For if the community of the 
 ^r^'o i^^'f /^f ^^'^^^"^^ have to doe in all matters concerning the body, to 
 v^fu clilit confulcjti- ^^'^i^ 'T)embers, and caft thcm out, to make and depofe Mi- 
 on in an afTcmbly lifters, to bind and loofc by authority derived from Chrift'i 
 wherein all havcc- wee cannot fee how in your judgement the difpenfation, 
 quill power and and execution ©f the power of the keycs is concreditcd to the 
 voycc in dctermi- j^jnif^^^.^, ^ ^ 
 
 on? going before the Fourthly That which you add, that God will nor vouchlafc 
 
 zz^idm^aiio^ his prefence and bleffing to an ordinance but when itisdif- 
 
 pcnccd by tho(e,whom hee hath ordayned and appointed 
 
 ihercuatcmiift bee warily undcrftood, or it may oecafion errors and diftraf^ions 
 
 not 
 
Tt)€ reflj to the Anfmr of the third and fmnh ? options. - 1 
 
 ftot a fcWsYou know whatcorruptions foone cntrcd into the Church of God, both 
 inreipcilofDodtrinc, Wordiip, Offices, and entrance thereuntOj 
 K^birf agalnn and how ready and apt is the conclufion from your words, That 
 ^t-n Cona. chrift hath not vouchfa fed hisprefcnce, and bieffing in his Ordi- 
 S.7I' ^ ^** "^"^" ^ ^'* Q\^\xic\i ? Bit of this before. 
 
 And on the contrary, feeing God hath vouchfafed his bJcjfing to 
 his Ordinances difpenfed by your felves,',when you ftood as vifible Miniftcrs in the 
 congregat'on. and Churches of old EfioU'^d.you m\\{\ ccnfedc; he did approve both 
 your ^landings and his Ordinances difpenfed by you. 
 
 Secondly, as for the Affumption, that Paftors and Teachers are limited to a par-i 
 ticular charge or fociety; |but that flock is not ever one congregational] affeinbly 
 meeting in one place, neither the band fo ftreight_, whereby tliey are tied to that one 
 fbciecy, that they may not upon occafionperformefbmeMinifleriall Ail or Office 
 in another congregation, or to them that be not fet members of their proper aflem- 
 bly. For fir^ to difpence the Seals of the covenant is a n-Jni'^leriall a^!^ , an z^ of 
 Office, and not an exercife of gifts onely ; But the Paftors of one AlferrjbJy may 
 dilpence the Sacrament to the (ct members of another fociety upon occalion, as you 
 confelTc in this and in your anfwer to the ninth pofition. 
 
 And if the members of one Church may lawfully upon occafion receive the Sa«^ 
 crament of the Supper in another fociety from the Paftor thereof, then may the Pa- 
 ftor of one congregation performe a MiniQeriall afl to the members of another/ nd 
 if tp the members of another then in another congregation with confent^ and upon 
 occafion. 
 Secondly, As the Minifters are exhorted to feed their fleck : fb is every Chrifh'an 
 and Minifler to try and examine himfelie whether hce be in the fiich, 
 I roK.ii 18. but you will not allow this conclufion. I muf! examine my felf. Erfo'\ 
 a Cer.x].^. ^^ ^^^ - debarred from the Sacnment for his unworthineffe, or to be 
 tried or examined by others, to be obfervedjadmoniflied, and brought to repentance 
 Bex^ de Pref ^^^ i^otdrious (in. No more can i t be rightly gathered from the former 
 byt,Si Excom- p^^^%^^ of Scripture , that the Minifter is not upon occafion to per- 
 pAg,i^ forme any Minifteriall a6l to-any other people or fociety, bccaufe or- 
 
 i?o^/>/ againft dinarily he is to attend his own Hock. 
 
 Bcrn.pai.iSi* Thirdly, As the Miniflers have peculiar relation to their particular 
 flocks, fo the people unto their p:.vticular Minifters, unto whom they are tied in fnc* 
 ciall manner,as to their Overfeers,who muft give account for thcirfouls. And if this 
 peculiar relation betwixt the people & the Minifter doth not hinder the people from 
 receiving the Lords Supper at the hands of another Minifter; nor the minifter frm 
 performing the Minifleriall a6l to the members of another congicg.ition . Neither 
 doth his peculiar Relation to his own fl^ck hinder him , from adniiniftrinc^ unto 
 
 others , 
 
^ 1 The Reply to t he tAnfrer of the third <wi fourth Poptiont . 
 
 othcis upon jufi: cccafion being increatcdcherciinto. As chcconibining oFchc people 
 to their peculiar Minillcr, dotli riotqnicc cutorf tlicir communion wich oiher Mini- 
 Acrs.-lb neither doth the retraining ofa Minillcr to a pcculiir flock quite cut him off 
 from admini'hing upon occafionrunto another people. P4;^/appoinceth the Efhefian 
 
 Elders unco the care & chaig ondy oftheir 
 ^.?> i» :8 The Word of GoaandCanois own particular flock, but fo to attend them 
 otCouncch will hjve Paflors fo to rare for ordinarily according to the rules of the 
 mv'.roirii flock, thai thiv torbi<i ihcpi not „ • i ^ r rr x 
 
 t>c3refor che whole Chu ch , cfp cal'y in Scripture -^ that as occafiofl was offered, 
 n timccf common combuflioa. The anlwcr might performe fonic MiniRcriall afls in 
 i.i fbaie Brediren, f^i w. . another conercgation.The taking heed un- 
 
 riibUnmimvoc^w mnmim^n ^^rscommm ^^ .^cir flocks which Taul requires in this 
 depfcsbytp.ip.i7, place doth coprehend under it the admmi- 
 
 flration of the WordiPrayer,and Sacram- 
 ent, and if it mu^ be refl:raincd to their owne particular Churches onely ^ it is un- 
 Jawfull for aPaftor to preach or call upon the name of God in any publikc Aflem- 
 bly fave his own^upon any occalion;, as theic be duties prtaining to common confcf- 
 fion or profeflion of faith. Ordinary Paftors and Teachers it is true , are not Apo^ 
 lllcs, w'ho are to go from place to place, from Country to Country, to plant and Cr 
 fccft Churches, but they are tied ordinarily to one flock, as the Text provech , arid 
 to which purpofe it is commonly cited. But that a Pallor is fo tied to his,flocl<, that 
 he can perform no minifteriall afl to any other upon any occafion that it proyeth 
 not, nor can we find that it was ever fo underftood by Divines 
 } !feb.Hill.^,c.i6, ancient or modern. fV, *2. telleth.us, the learned bring theie alle- 
 chm'kr. Pan^, gations to this purpofe. But the audiour in ailedging the confent 
 rmx.UotcX of the learned was very careleffe or much abulcd, for there is not 
 Seci.i6. one that fpeaketh to the purpofe./. D. difclaimerh that pofition ; 
 
 1 he Churcbos j^^jj f^^ the reft it is a matter notorious , they were never thought 
 ^Z/}} /'iln? & ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^^^ opinion; and wee doubt not if any could be named 
 a^S. '^ to free this allegation from fufpition of Novelty, you would have 
 
 cited one or more as you havejdone in that which followeth. 
 
 Feed the flock.ofGod (faith Peter.) But he fpcaks of all thofe difperfed Churches 
 CO whom he writes, which he calls a chofcn Generation, a Royall Pricfthood,a pe- 
 culiar people : And in fome refpeil of reafon,under which we "may apprehend them, 
 are one flock, but not really as combined under the fame Paftor, or meeting in one 
 place. And as rhefediiperfcd believers, or foci eties make one Flock: fotheMini- 
 fters attending their flocks or focietics , and the Miniftery excrcifed by them is, or 
 inakethone. 
 
 4 A Minifter chofen and fet over one fociety, is to looke imto his people com- 
 nuttcd to his charge, ^ feed the flocks over which the Lord hath ma^^ htm overfeer^ 
 
 but 
 
The Reply to the anjwer of the third Oftd fonrth Pojitions. 5 5 
 
 but he is a Minifter in the Church Univerfall, for as Orig./« lia. Hom,6' Qui vs- 
 the Church is one, fo is the Miniftery one,of which catnr ad Epifcopatum, vocatur 
 every Minifler (found or Orthodox} doth bold his ad fervitmem totms Ecckptz, 
 parc,and though he be Minifler over that flock one- Chryfoft./» 2 Cor, horn, \%.V' 
 ly which he is to attend, yet he is a Minifler in the mverfdt eHramgermns* 
 univerfalChurch.The funflioor powder ofexcrciflng Sec Chdm Panflr.Tom^i.pag^ 
 that Funcflion in the abflra6l,muft be diflinguiflicd lo.cap.ii, Scil^^.g-lQ.&c, 
 from the power of exerciflng itjconcrctely, accord- Jan, ^mmadv. w*BeHar,con* 
 ing to the divers circumflances of places. The firft tro,^Mif,i .c.^. »ot»^.&cap»j 
 bclongcth to a Minifler every where in the Church, mt.j* 
 the latter is proper to the place and people where 
 
 hedoth minifler. The la wfullulc of his power is limited to that congregation or- 
 dinarily. The power it felf is not fb limited and bounded. In Ordination jPresby- 
 tcrs are not reftrained to one or other certaine place , as if they were to be deemed 
 Minifters there oncly> though they be fet over a certain people. And as the fiithfull 
 in refpccl of a community betwixt them , muft and ought to pcrfbrme the Offices 
 of love one to another » though of different focicties , fb the Miniflers in refpefl of 
 their communion , muft and ought upon occafion to pcrfbrme minifkriall Offices 
 towards the faithfull of diflinil focicties. 
 
 5 If this be not fo* what (hall become of the poorc flock when the Paflor is 
 driven away by perfonall perfecution, fo that he cannot, if others may not afford 
 them helpe and fuccour ; what when the congregation it felfe is difperfed, mufl no 
 (heepherd receive them into fold, when they are driven from their own, or negled- 
 €dbyhim? 
 
 6 If the Paflor may be abient from his flock upon neceflary, juft, and weighty 
 occafion, refpef^ing his own good, the good of that (bciety, or the common good of 
 Churches confociate, then may the Paflor, thefoaiety, the Churches procure foine 
 man to fuppiy the dcfc^, and doe the office of a Paflor, preach the Word, pray, 
 and as occafion is offered , adminiflcr the Sacrament in that Congregation unto 
 that Aflembly untill their Sheephcard fliall returne. Shall the people be left as 
 fheepe without aflieepheard; becaufefbr the good of the Churches their owne 
 fheepheard is called from them for a time, that he might returne with greater py 
 and comfort? 
 
 The Paflor is appointed to feed his own flock, and yet for the good of the whole 
 Church he may be called to leave, if not the care, yet the over-fight of his flock fot 
 a while; and by the fame reaibn a paflor of another flock or congregation may pcr- 
 fonne the officcand doe tlie ails of a Minifler in his congregation during abfenc^ 
 Yea if for the good of the Churches he be called away, doe not the Churches {\ind 
 obliged in confcience to provide that the flock fuflain no hurt by his abfence vvjhich 
 
 F pofflblr 
 
H Tfje np!jt4 the d>tfrir ofth third dttdfoffrtJj Pofitions, 
 
 podibJyyercanoocc^.jc ifonc Minifter maynor pcrfoimcaMinifteriaJI af^inn- 
 hothcr Congregation. 
 
 7 Ifchc Prophets of on: Church m.iy propliefy in another, and apply their do- 
 
 <flfines, exhortations and prayers to any of the occahons of the 
 Act, 1^, If, Ghurchcs where they fpcake, whereof they arc not fen members, 
 
 what hinders why the PaRor of one congregation ^ may not preach 
 and pray, admini(icr the Sacramc us in another ? The pa^ior of one co'^grcgation 
 is appointed lo his peciiliar charge but he is a Minifler in the univeriall cihurch, as 
 well as the Prophets of one Ghurch may bee called Prophets of the univerfall 
 Church by vertae of that Commanion which all true Churches have one with 
 anothcr-Without confent the Prophet may not propheiie by cxhorcanonjand with 
 conien: che Pafi-or may admini^ler the Sacraments. 
 
 8 In the Primitive Churches when Elders were ordained in evefy City 5 thty 
 \stxt not onely to lookc to their flock but indeavour the converfion of poore lofi- 
 ^om i^ 3 11 ^^^^ J^mong whom they jived, and the inlargcment of Chrifis King- 
 Thii i,i'ii\6\ ^om^ , for the worke of the Lord muft be done in its feafon , and 
 c> 4. » . ' then was the time of the calling of the Gentiles: f 
 
 It was not their office proper and eifentiall to travail from Countrey to Coun- 
 trey as did tlie Apo^Ies, nor were they paflors of the In- 
 im 5.19,10, aU.^. fidelsa but by private inftruftion and publiquc teach- 
 15.40.^5? 38. & 10. J. ing ( if any of them would bee penitent ) they were to 
 Sell. '9*^_ * ^^- labour the comming of them to God. And the/c Infidels 
 ^^-^I'zt iQlrAjJ^^ converted to the faith were to be baptiied of the Elders ur- 
 &^i.j?. & 1 2.10.7? fW/. dinarily in thofc Cities, though the number might bee fo 
 3-9 great as they could not well meetc in one Congrcgattoii, 
 
 nor be fub /eft to the fame Paftor ^ for either they muR bee 
 baptized by the payors among whom they lived. (l>eing converted to the faith) or 
 continue unbaptized untill they were a number convenient to make a diftinil fo- 
 ciccy, or grow together into one body, and to elci^ and choofe their own Miniver- 
 by whom they may be baptifed : But that cither they muft flay fo long without 
 taptifme^or that a focicty of unbaptifcd men had^power in thofe times to clc(ft aad 
 choofe their Minifter,by whom they fliould be baptifed is contary to all prcfidcnts 
 in Scripture. 
 
 9 And fo if a Paftor may not [^rformc a miniftcriail aft to any other pcrfon 
 or people but his own flock onely, then a company newly converted from infideli- 
 ty ,which cannot joyne themfel ves as fet members to another affembly, muft remain 
 unbapti fed till they have chofen their Mmiftcr to doc that office. Then mull the 
 people thus converted want officers til there be among themfelvcs able men to pray» 
 breach, cxhcrt in the congregation at the ordination of their Minifter , or ( it that 
 
 may 
 
The ^e^lj to the Anfirer ^fthe third oMdfmrtb Pcjuions, 5 5 
 
 may bcc omitted) till there be fit men among them to examine the ficncfle of him 
 that is cbofcn. 
 
 I o If fubtilc Herctikcs arife, and feduce, and draw away many from the faith, 
 and the body of the ibciety be not able to convince them, cither they muft be let a- 
 lone or ca^ oat without conviflion, for neighbouring Minifters ftand in peculiar 
 relation to their flocks onely^ and mufl not meddle beyond their calling according 
 toyourtenenc. 
 
 1 1 There is no precept or example in What example have you bm gronnds 
 Sci;ipture more to warrant the admitting of ^^^ ^<= biptifing of iufan» ? or y^herc 
 
 r ^ % r • . ^L r<adYouot any officer cxcomnBunicaccd 
 
 a fetmember of one congregation unto the ^^^^^ K(»^.ag/infifi.T.p.H4.wcma, rloc 
 Supper in another, or the baptifing of his cxptd examples cf any Paftors m 
 child, cccafionally in another affembly then fcripmrcs: who did ihus. 2. D. */4|w/.9. 
 there is for receiving of knowne and appro- Se^.cxam p.uj, 
 vcd Chriftians , and their fcede that arc not 
 
 fct members. The PaRoris no more the paRor of the one then of the other, 
 nor the one more of his flock then the other .» neither of them fet members, and 
 both forts may be members for the time bcing,and they moft pro- 
 perly who are of longefl: abode among them. But asweheareit seel.D.Jp^l. 
 is frequent among you (as at "Dorchefier, &c.) to baptife the chil- ^g^J^^' ^^'^ ^^^ 
 dren of another Aflembly^and ufijally you admit to the Supper of 
 the Lord, members of other Churches, and therefore the Minifter is not fo limited 
 to his particular Church or flock but he may difpencc the fealcs to others, which in 
 this confideration is dcnycd. 
 
 12 If the want of one Officer in a Congregation for a time , may be fup- 
 plyed by another,as the want of the Doflor.Ruling Elder.or Dcacon^by the Paflor; 
 why may not the 6,tk^s of fomeCongiegation or Chri^ians be fu pplyed by Pa- 
 yors or Minivers of another Congregation , when they are requcftcd and defired? 
 the minde herein is op^{y, and the means iawfull, and well pleafing uuto God. 
 
 1 5 And if a Synod con{in:ing of fuHdry members of particular Churches , met 
 together in the name of Chrifl about the common and publike affaires of the Chur- 
 ches fliall joyn together in prayer and communion of the Supper , wee can fee no 
 groundtoqueftion ic as unlawfully although that Aflembly be no particular Con- 
 gregation or Church, hath no Paflor over them, make not one Ecckfia^j'dl body 
 as a particular Congregaticnall Church, unlefle it be for the time onely. The Mi- 
 niver therefore may do a n afl of office to them diat be not fet members of his flock 
 as he may ftand in Relation to them for the time. 
 
 1 4 Your comparifon betwixt an Officer of a Town Corporate > and of a parti- 
 cular Congregation is not alike , unlefle you will fay that a member of another 
 Corporation occafionally comming into the Townc , k rhereby a member of tha^ 
 Society, and fubjcdl to the authority of the Officer. For fo you ptofefTc that th- 
 
 F 2 m^ember 
 
S 6 The re^lj to the anfwer oftl^ third and fonrth Pofitions . 
 
 members of one Society may occalionally communicate with another, and (bbc 
 fubjeil to the Pa/lor for the time being , which if you grant , it overthrows the 
 whole ilrcngch of this confideration. Howfbever the comparifon it felfc is very pe- 
 rilous it it be prefled. For if the Officer of a Town Corporate, prcfume to doe an 
 a(5l of power out of his owne Corporation, it is a meer nullity , but if a Minifter of 
 the Gofpell difbcncc the Sacrament of Baptifine, or the Lords Supper to believers 
 of another Sociery (though done without confcnt^ it was never deemed or jud^^cd 
 a nullity in the Church of God. Let the comparifon hold good, and mo^ Chri^ii- 
 ans have cautc coqueflion whether they be truly baptised > or ever lawfully recei- 
 ved the Sacrair.cnc of the Lords Supper. If it may not be doubted , whether ever 
 the Sacrimencs of the New Teftament were truly or by authority difpenced ', efpe- 
 cially i^ wc coniider what follows in the other considerations. This Argument 
 from comparilon is very ufuall in the Writings of Brethren againft communion 
 widi our Churches, but for the moft part greatly miftaken, to fay no more. 
 
 A»[vp€r 3 ConftderAtioyi, 
 
 CIi cumcifion and the Paffoever were to be adminiflred onely to the members of 
 the Church. ^rg9, Baptifme and the Lords Supper is fo to be admini^red alfo. 
 The confcquence is madegood by the parity of thefc Ordinances. For if the Argu- 
 ment hoidftrong for the proofe of Pjido- Baptifme which is taken from the circum- 
 cifion of Infants, why may we not as well infer a necelTity of Church membcrfliip 
 to Bapti{me,from the ncceffityof it to circumciiion. And that Circumcifion was pecu- 
 liar to the Church members of the Church, may appeare in that perlbns circumcifed? 
 6c onely thcyjmight eat the PafTeover^and they onely might enter into 
 Fxod.ix/^^. the Temple, which w^ere the privi'edges of Church members. In our 
 Exod^j^^ 7. anf ver to the iccond Obje^flion againfl the firft confidcration we have 
 fLcwed that Circumcifion was not adminilired to all that were under 
 the Covenant of Grace (which all believers were) but onely fuch of them as joy- 
 ned thcmielves to the Church , at firR in Abrahams family , whereunco Baptilmc 
 doth lb far anfwerthat the Apoftle counteth thefe expreffe equiva- 
 Cy/ 2.1 1,12. lent to be circumcifed in Chrift with circumcifion made without 
 h^rAsy and to be buried with Chrift in Baptifme. Indeed, in fome- 
 things they -differ as onely the Males were circumcifed^whereas with us Females arc 
 alfo ba|2iized. The Reafon is becauie God hath limited Circumcifion to the Malef , 
 but under the Golpel that difference is taken away. Againc , Circumcifion was ad- 
 miniftred in the private family; bi tBaptiiine , onely in the publick Affembliesof 
 the Church. The Reafon of this difference is, becaufe they were bound to circum- 
 cife the Males on the eighth day , but that could not ftand with going to the Tem- 
 ple which was too f^r off,; for thcpurpofe, to brinf; every child thither from all 
 ^'ipartscf ?/i^:e<3 to be Circumcifed the eighth day. Nor had they' alway opportu- 
 nity of a 'folemnc convciiiioa in the Synagogue on every eighth day ; when fome 
 
 child 
 
The Repljf to the anf-mr of the third and foptrth Pcfitionj, 37 
 
 child or other might be to be circumcifed. But there is no prccifc day fet do wne for 
 BaptiImc,nor are opportunities of publick AlTembJies fo remote where Churches are 
 kept in a congregationall frame, but that every firft day of the week Baptifinc may 
 be adminiftrcdifit be required. Again, for the Aforefaid Reafon, Cicumcifion 
 required not a peculiar Minilkr ( for ought we finde in Scripture) but it is not fo 
 in Baptifme^as was jfhewd in the fecond Confideration.But no good Reafon can be 
 given, why, in this they fhould not both agree, -z//:?:.. that they arc both to be difpca- 
 ied onely to members of the vifible Church, as it hath been proved in the fir^l Con- 
 fideration. %/f^J» 
 
 THis whole Reafon as it is propounded makes onely againR it felfe ; who ever 
 thought that the Seals of the Covenant were not proper to.confederates or the 
 Church of God ? But of old all vifible Believers under the Covenant of Grace, 
 walking in holincfle^were of the vifible Church ,and in Chnrch Order according to 
 the difpenfation of thofe times, though not joyned in extcrnall lociety with the Fa- 
 mily of Ahrakam. And to exclude iJl^elchifedeck^ or lob ^ becaufc they were no 
 members of the vifible Church, when yet they were vifible Believers under the Co- 
 venant of Grace, and in Church Order as thofe times required, is well-nigh a con- 
 tradidlion, And fo it is to debar known and approved Chriftians members of our 
 Congregation , and their feed from the Seals , becaufe they be not of the vifible 
 Church, fbrthey are members of the Church, and fo to bee held and e^eemed 
 all true Churches and members of the Churci , The true & proper meaning of this 
 Confideration, is that as Circumcifion and the Pnffeover were not to be difpenfcd 
 to all vifible Believers under the Covenant of Grace , but onely to fe.chaswere 
 joyned to Ahrahams Family , or to th.e people of th^ God of Abraham , no more 
 may Baptilme and the Lords Supper be adminiflred to any Believers now, unlcjffe 
 they bejoyned to fome particular Congregation in Church Memberfhip. or unlelTc 
 by fblemne Covenant, they be fet members of fome particular Affemblies. 
 
 The ftrength of this Confideration ftands in the 
 parity which is betwixt the Sacraments of the Old ^^^/? f« obje^s againft Bern. 
 and New Teftament , Circumcifion and Bantifme, ^^^^^ ^ Circumc'tfione ad Bap - 
 for pamm par efl ratio , but this parity is not found ^^/^^^ argtimcntamur utpro" 
 in every thing Cas is manifcR bv the particulars al- ^^^^ tnfmtes ejfe baptr< m^ 
 leadged in the Confideration it felf.) ^, ml wee mud <^^^ ^ ^^^ ^^^'^''^ ^'^^^ ah a^m 
 juftjy require fome reafon to prove them like in that ^4^'hatis ad Ca:r.:im Bomir.i, 
 particular, but to unQd it more fully, we will con- ^'^^^^ whereto hee truly reply« 
 fider three things. Firit , how far an argument ^i"^. Bgovero.mnnegoltcere 
 may be drawn foundly fror(i one Sacrr^ ment to ano- ^'^- ^^ ^^'^ ^^^^^' ^' '^i^'^^r- 
 ther, or wherein the Sacram^n^s ?g ec, r-a.l wherein p-l'^t^r. Bcza control EralK 
 they differ. Secondly, '7aat wet ire to think of the P'=^^•-^ 
 propofition it fclf. Thirdly, whechcr the Reafon of Circumcilion and Baptifme \>z 
 one in tl^^t particular. F 3 Fk{t, 
 
^S The Rcfly to the u4n[wer »f tht third andfonrth Tofiticns. 
 
 Firrt the Sacraments of the old Teftamcnc and the new agree in their Comiuoii 
 author^ nature and cndj and therfore what is fpokcn of one in rcfpeft of the com- 
 mon author, n^iturc and end that doth hold true ofevene one. i^ Circumcifion be of 
 divine inrtitution a fcalc of the RighteoufnciTc of faith, and of the Covenant of 
 gfacc,a Sacrament in general! is an ordinance divine, a feale of the Covenant pro- 
 per and peculiar to tlicjn ihat bee confederates. But fvhat is peculiar to one Sacra- 
 ment that agrecth net to another. What is proper to the facramencs of the old Tc- 
 flament, in refped^ of the manner of difjjeniation that agreeth not to the new, as if 
 the Sacraments of the old Tcftament be with bloud.obicure in fignification, painfull 
 tor uic, peculiar to ont Nation, and to bee aboliflied, the Sacraments of the new 
 Tellament mull bew'ithout bloud^ clecre for fignification, eafie for ufe, univerfall 
 to all Nations, and perpetuall to continue in the Church for ever. 
 
 Circumcifion and Baptifmc are both Sacraments of divine inftitution, and fo they 
 agree in the lubftance of che things iignified, the perfbns to whom they are to bee 
 admini%cd, and the order of admrnifi ration, if the right proportion bee obfervccf. 
 As circumcifion fealed the entrance into the covenant the righteoufiiefle offaith^and 
 circumcifion of the heart : fb doth Baptiiiiiemuch more clearly : As Abraham and 
 his houfholdjind the infants ofbcleiving lews were to bccircumcifcd.fo the faithful, 
 their families, and their {ttA arc to bee baptized. None muft eate the paffeover who 
 was not circumciied, women excepted, who were circumcifed in the males, Nor 
 ^nay a man unbaptizcd be admitted to the Lords fupper. Circumcifion was but 
 once applied by Gods appointment and the fame holds in baptifmc according to 
 the will and good pleafure of God :But circumcifion and baptifine agree not in 
 their fpeciall forme , and manner of difpenfation appointed of God. And in thefe 
 things a reafon cannot be drawn fi*om the one to the other affirmatively. The 
 males onely were to be circumcifed as only capable of that fignc : but males and fe- 
 males both ought to be baptized. The infants males were to be circumcifed the 
 I.e^•.Il. x.^.'dMi. eighth day becaufe icaven daycs they were legally uncleane, 
 ay ExO'X^^%Oy But the feed of the faithfiill are not to bee reputed unckaiie. 
 £r^tf;nofettyraeis appointed for baptifine. Circumcifion as other Ceremonies did 
 diftinguifh the lewes from the Gentiles ; but Chrift now of two hath 
 
 ^ ' * "' made one. Circumcifion fignificd Chrifl to come^Baptiflnc is the feale of 
 the New covenant made in Chrifl already come. And fo in the degree of grace 
 givcna fome difference may be put : The other differences allcadged in the confide- 
 rations with the reafbns thereof are not fo clecre and undoubted: for Baptifmc is 
 not tycd to the firO: day of the wccke : and the Jcwes might gather an Affembly on 
 the eighth day as occafion required .and it might be appropriated to the Pricfts and 
 Levitei though done in private: But in wnatfoever they agree or differ we mu^^: 
 looke to the in^itution and neither flretch it wider, nor draw it narrower then the 
 
 lord hath made it. For hce is thelnftitutor of the Sacraments according to his 
 
 ownc 
 
71?^ reply to tl:)e a^Jiver of the third mi fourth Vofttions, % p 
 
 ownc good pleafurc. And it is our part to learne ofhim/both to whom, how, and 
 for what end the Sacraments are to be adrninidied, how they agree,, and wherein 
 they d tfcr. In all which we mu(^ aftirme nothing but what God hath taught us, 
 and as he hath taught us. 
 
 Secondly.as for the Proportion it fclfe^certainc it is, Circumcifion and tliC Pafle- 
 over were to be adminiflred onely to the vifiblc members of the Church? />. to men 
 in Covenant, profe/Iing the true faith ; But that mAhrAhamsumt^nowz were vi- 
 able members of the Church, -which joyncd not theinfelves in Church orders to the 
 family oiAbrahttm, wee have not learned. In the firfl Inftitution of Circumcifi- 
 on, we find that God gave it iq Abraham, as the Scale of the Ccfvenant formerly 
 made vrith him : But of any Church covenant or order whcreunto Abrahams fa- 
 mily fhould enter before Ci rcumcitien we read nor, LMe/chiz,edscl^ , Lot, Iob,&c . 
 tverc not onely vifibleBclecvers under the Covenant of grace, but vifible members 
 of the Church, according to the order and dlfpenfation of thofe times. Wee read 
 not(yo\i{zy)thzttMeichizedeck^, Lot ot lo^ were ciicumcifed, but that is no 
 good rca/bn to infcrrc ficgatively that they were not Grcumci fed. Wc read not that 
 Joh^ the BaptiQ, or the Apoflles, or the 5C0. 
 
 brethren were Baptized, wee mu^ not forth- Eiuim ft dciremtu imltam legi ab A- 
 with conclude, that they were not initiated foftolis excommnnicdttoyiem non ta^ 
 by that ieale. Moreover, if they were not men fequeretur tta ejfe, qmrtt fatu 
 Circumcifed^ it may bee the Inftitucion of conjletnon omnmm frngnlmA Jpo* 
 that Sacrament vvas not knownc unto them, JfoUrum gefia perfertptaffiife, Bez, . 
 or the Authour of Circumcifio nCupon whofc de Presb. p*j. Et fi ds Melchix^e' 
 will and plcafure they muft depend ) did not dech^ & lobo quA hue adfertmtur r.on 
 command it unto them^or require that they f urn extra comroverfam. Nam fee- 
 fhould joyne thcmfelvcs in Covenant with dere cum Abra, imo -non exclu* 
 Abrahams family : and in that cafe if they duntHr tj qui ante era^t in feeder e 
 bad Circumcifed thtmfclvcs they had tranf- fed eiccenfenturfoederi. It a, autem fe 
 grctfed. But then the rcafbn why they were habnit Melchizedeck^^&c, ommno e- 
 not circumcifed was not this, that they were »/>» co^ifors promiffionis divine fuit 
 notCasyou (peakc) in Church order : but ante foedtu cum eo initHm, Gen.ij, 
 becau(e Circumcifion was appropriated to ^ob vero & credens fnit ^omiffiom- 
 Abrahams family by divme Inftitution in iftsfcederis.&defentemia veternm 
 fome fpcciall and peculiar rcfpci^s belonging fuit circumcifHs etiam hareditarta. 
 to the manner of Admini^ration. After the circtimciftonc a paserro mater no^ 
 Church of the Jcwes was conftituted ( when fangmneVt elegamer fcribtt amhor 
 wee can no more imagine that there was a IthrtdeverkCircumcifions qui Hie^ 
 Church among the Gentiles, then diat there roff.adfcribtturJufj.anmadvJfsBcl" 
 arc Chriftians among the Barbarians at this' LiT,<:omrav^<^.lib,ixh.i,\6,:<9r,i:?,, 
 day ) wc finde none muft be admitted to the 
 
 Pafifeovcr that was not firfl Circumcifed, but nothing was required of a imngcr 
 "to 
 
40 -[| Uf The Re fly to the anfwer of the third And fourth P ofitions, 
 
 to circumcifion.but that he profefTc the true faith^and avouch the God of Abraham 
 to be his God, which of ncccffitie muft be done before he could be reputed a viiibic 
 Bclccvcr, or under the Covenant of proniife. 
 
 Thus a learned and reverend divine, Circumcifion was a feale of 
 tftc-^'id^^^^ the covenant, that God made with Abraham concerning Chri^ that 
 fliould come as concerning the fle{b of//^4tf-aHdfbof/^c<?^ofwhoni 
 v;ere the 12 tribes who were the Ifraehtes, to. Rom. 9. 4. j. So that as in Abra^ 
 hams time none were bound to be ^ircumcifed but thofe that were ofhis family 
 as bcin^, borne there or bought, and Co brought thither which Were not ofhis feed : 
 So af:ejv\:,rds none were bound to be Circumciicd which were not borne in the 
 family of lacob and Patrutrchs, or joy ned to them. And after their comming out 
 of E^ft n-jne were bound to be Circumcifed but the children of the lewcs {thta 
 the only Church of God, ) and thofe that defired to joyne unto them. Thcfummc 
 is thus much , God gave circumcifion ro Abraham as a feale of the Covenant but 
 whether it was given to other beleevers in his time it is fat leaft) a thing uncer- 
 taine. And if they were not Circumcifed it was by reafbn of the fpcciall Inftitution 
 of God, and peculiar manner ofadminiftration of the Covenant of promifc which 
 in {o^nt rcfpc^ was proper? to the family o^ Abraham^ and not common to all the 
 vilible members of the Church at that time in ^liurch fellowfliip and order. After- 
 wards when there were none in covenant but the Cttd of lacob or Grangers pro- 
 feUing the faith of y^^M^^.'^fjcircumcifion was not to be adminiftred to any man 
 who was not in Covenant nor any man to bee admitted to the Paffeovcr who was 
 not circumcifed.This is the mo/i that can be (aid with any probability : But hence 
 it will not follow by iuft analogic or proportion, that the feed of the faithfull mu^ 
 not bee admitted to Baptifnie,or viable beleivers be received to the Lords Supper 
 unlcfle they bee fet members offome particular congregation united in Church 
 ordcr.Thirdly, prcfuppofing therefore that Melchi^edtck^ot and tob.yitiz not Cir- 
 cumcifed, we fay there is not the like reafon of Circumcifion and Baptifme in this 
 particular. For, firft if ^rcumcifion was ever appropriated to the family of ^^?'<^- 
 hanjy aud might be communicated to other vifible Beleevers, it was in the firfl In- 
 dication and adminiftration ; but in thefit^i InRitution and adminiftration of Bap- 
 tifme, i: was not obferved that beleevers fhould be firfl gathered into a politicall 
 ^ , body or Chrift ian church membcrfhip, and then baptized./^^?^ the Bap- 
 
 ' tifi" baptized fuch as came to him conf^/fing their fins. The Apof^lcs 
 lo 41. baptized Difciplcs/iich as gladly received their do(5lrine^ belecved 
 
 Wt^2.?7.38 41. in Jefus Chrifl^and received the gifts of the holy Ghofl, before 
 y^ 3^ ^ ^^' ^^^y ^^^^^ leathered into ChriQian Church order, or made fit mem- 
 bers of a ^iiriftian congrcgationall AfTcmbly. 
 ^ If Cireun.clfion was by fpeciall Inflitution^ given as a priviledge 
 to the Males of ^Abrahrms Faiuilie , ^ielchtz^cdcck: j lob , Lor g and 
 odier vifible Beleevers were no: bound to joyne thenifclvcs as members 
 
 to 
 
Th Reply to the Anfwer of the third and fourth Pofnions. 4 5 
 
 to Abrahams familie, or defire and feek to be circumcifed : But they that have re- 
 ceived the dodrine of falvation, bcleeve Chrift, and profefle the faithj are bound to 
 feekj and delii e the priviledge of the feals in an holy manner. 
 
 3 . MelchUedech^ Job^ and Lot were not onely vifibie bcleevers, but vifibic mem- 
 bers of the Church, according to the manner of difpcnfing in thofe times : but the 
 Seals ( as you confcfle) belong to all bcleevers knit together in Church- Cove- 
 nant, 
 
 4. If circumcifion be appropriated to the family of Abrahanty it is becauft the 
 Covenant fealed by circumcifion is peculiar to Abrahams pofteritie , (/f.) that 
 Chrift (hould come as concerning the flefh, oHfaac, But Baptifmc is the (cal of the 
 Covenant of grace without any peculiar or fpeciall tye or refpeft. 
 
 5. You contend, that Baptifmedid belong to fuch belecvers as were members 
 of the then Jewifh Church, which cannot ftand, M Abrahams familie did anfwer to 
 a C'hriftian focietie or congregationall Aflembly •, Juft reafbn therefore may be gi- 
 ven why circumcifion was difpenfed onely to the males of Abrahams familie^ when 
 baptifme is not to be limited onely to the fet members of a particular focietie \^vA 
 if this confideration be applied to the purpofc, inftead of faying, Circumcifion and 
 the Pafleover were to be adminiftred onely to the members ot the Church, you 
 muft Tay Circumcifion was to be defired of or adminiftred unto all the true appro- 
 ved vifibie members of the Church. And if there be the fame reafon of both, then 
 all vifibie approved members of the Church muft not defire nor be admitted to the 
 feals, but this conclufion you will not acknowledge, 
 
 Anfw, 4. Confideration, 
 TTHey that are not capable of the Church cenfurcs, are not capable of the 
 Church priviledges.- but they that are not within Church- Covenant arc 
 not capable of Church cenfures. Srgo, The propofition is evident , The Aflump- 
 tion may be proved , i Corinth, 5.12. What have I to do to judge them that are 
 without. Now to be without is not onely the cafe of Heathens and Excommuni- 
 cates, but of fome belecvers alfo, who though by externall union with Chrift they 
 are within the Covenant of grace, yet being Hot joy ned externally to the vifibie bo- 
 die of Chrift (a particular Church)are in regard of vifibie Church communion faid 
 to be without. To this purpofe is this text allcdged by other Divines alfo, as Df» 
 Ames Caf. of confci. /. 4. c. 24. q, i . refp, 5 . 
 
 Frrft,men arc capable of Church cenfures in two refpeSs , cither in having 
 the power of the keyes, and authoritie to difpcnic them according to God, or 
 as fubjea to the cenfures of the Church. In the firft fenfe , many are capable of 
 Church priviledges that are not capable of Church cenfures, as the feed ofChri-' 
 ftian parents, children and women. You fay you admit to the feales the knowne 
 
 H and 
 
4^ The %ff!y to the Anf^er of the third and fourth l^ofttiottj] 
 
 and approved, and ord^rly^recommendcd members of any true Church: but to fel* 
 lowfhip in the cenfures, admittance of members, and choice of Officers onely the 
 members ofthat particular Church whereof they and we (any of us ) ftand mem-- 
 bcrs. In the (ccond fcnfc al(b many are capable of Church priviledges who are not 
 fubjeft to Church cenfurcs : as the children of Chiiftian parents arc capable of 
 baptifmcj the known and approved members of any true Church are capable of the 
 Scales in other Congregations among you who are not fubjcft to the cenfurcs of 
 that other Society .Spiritual! communion in publick prayer is a Church priviledgCi 
 which is not denied to vifible bcleevers and godly perfonSj though not in Church 
 order, and (onot in fubjeftion in ycur ferhfe to Church cenfurcs. 
 
 Secondly, a per(bn baptifed is not baptised in that particular congregation one- 
 ly^but into all Churches, and every particular Church where he cometh he hath 
 all the priviledges of a baptifed perfon in refpeft of his baptifme , and is ^o to be 
 cftcsmed by them.Nowthcprivilcdgeofabaptifed perfon who is able to examine 
 himfelf, and walketh in the truth, is to be admitted to the Lords Supper. All cir- 
 cumcifcd pcr(bns had right thereby to cat the Paffeover in any focietiej in the place 
 which God ftould chufe to put his Name there. Exod, 12.4. 47. Bctit.i6. i , 2. So 
 all baptised perfons have true and intirc right to the Lords Supper in everie true 
 Church where God hath fet his Name. 
 
 Thirdly, there is not the fame rcafon of every Church priviledge, for one may 
 have right to forac, who is not to meddle with others. The members of onefbciety 
 may hear the Word, joyne in Prayer, and receive the Sacraments in another, when 
 they are not to meddle in the ele(iion and ordination of their teachers. The Mini- 
 ftcrsof theGofpel may preach the Word, and adminifter the Sacraments in ano- 
 ther congregation^and hereto he needs no other calling but that God offers an op- 
 portunitie; there is much need of his help^and he is intreated, or hath leave from 
 them in place or office •, but he is not to admit members into the focictie , or caft 
 them out that be admitted. And if the Paftor of one Church fhall preach or admi- 
 nifter the Sacraments in another, contrary to the liking and approbation of the 
 Society and Govcrnours, though the a6t be irregular, it was never efteemed a nulli- 
 tie; but if he (hall prefume to excommunicate the members of another focietie,with- 
 out the confent or the Church, and approbation of Paftors and Teachers , under 
 whofe charge and jurifdiftion they live, it hath been judged a meer nullity. There- 
 fore the propofition is not fo evident as to be taken without proofe, that they have 
 no power to admit a beleever into communion in any Church priviledge who have 
 no power to excommunicate. 
 
 Fourthly, that vifible bcleevers baptifcd into a true Church profeffing the true 
 
 faith, and walking in holy obedience, and godly converfation, that 
 
 \,Qor. 5, II. jj^gy ^^^ ^j^g^j. f^j.3 (hould be Judged fuch as are without in the Apo- 
 
 files fcnfe, becaufe they be not externally joy ned as fet members to fome particular 
 
 congregation in Church Covenant*, is affirmed, not proved. 
 
 I* It 
 
The K^flj to the Anfwer of the third dnd fourth l^ofmons. 47 
 
 I . It hath, and may fall out many times through the ignorance, rafhncfle, or 
 pride ofa prevailing faftion in the Church, that the true members of the Ca- 
 tholique Church, and the beft members of the orthodox vilible flock, or congre- 
 gation of Chrift may be no members of any diftinft vifible focietie. And ihall 
 their poftcritie be cfteemed Aliens and Strangers from the Covenant, and debar- 
 red from the Sacraments, becaufe their parents are unjuftly feparated from the 
 inheritance of the Lord I Surely as parents unjuftly excommunicated do con- 
 tinue ifill not onely true members of the invifiblc body, but vifible members of 
 the flock of Chrift : fo the right of Baptifme d^pth belong to the Infants of fuch 
 parents, though not aftuall and conftant members of this or that prefent siflcm- 
 bly in Church order. 
 
 3. If they be without, becaufe no members of a politikc bodie or Spiritual/ 
 fello'w^ihip : then all members which are of one focietie arc without to another ; 
 For they that be not of the bodie are not capable of Church cenfures, or fubje£fc 
 to the authoritie one of another. And fo not being under the judgement of that 
 particular Church to it they are without; whereas in ancient and moderne times 
 diftinft Societies did communicate together, admit and receive each other as 
 brethren^ to teftifie their fellowihipin the faith. If the rcafon whereupon the 
 Apoftle faith the Church of Corinth was not to judge them that were without, 
 was becaufe they were not within the Church o^C^rmh, and fo not under their 
 ccnfure or judgement : this holds true of them that be of another (bciety admit- 
 ted to the Sacrament, as well as of fuch as be no fet members defiring to be recei- 
 ved to the Lords Supper. 
 
 3. (The fornicators of this world) do they not explaine whom the Apoftle 
 pointetb unto by the title of being without^ ver^io. 1 1 . fuch as had not received 
 the covenant of grace. 
 
 4. Church order is neceflarie we dcnie not ; but this order that a man fliould 
 be a conftant and fet member of a particular focietie by covenant, to make him a 
 true member of the vifible Church, or to give him title or intercft to the publick 
 order, this is not taught of God. 
 
 5 . Taul divides all men into two ranks, the firft and greater without •, the laft 
 and lefler within : but that beleevers who have received the holy Ghoft,and have 
 been baptifed into Jefus Chrift, that they and their children (hould be reckoned 
 among them that are without, that we read not in this nor any 
 
 other Scripture, but in phrafe of Scripture hereticks themfelves l*^^^' ** '^' 
 are withm the Church. ^" 
 
 6. The beleevers not yet gathered (as the godly learned think^ into a certain 
 diftinft body are called beleevers, brethren, difciples • but that they Ihould be 
 comprehended under them that are without, it hath not been belceved in the 
 Church. 
 
 7. Without Cfaith the Apoftle whether alluding to this place or not,l€C others 
 
 H 2 judge) 
 
48 The R efly to the Anf^m of^he third and fourth Pofitiotis. 
 
 Rev.ii.r J. 'I"* judge) arc dogs, inchanters., whoremongers, not (iicli as are cal- 
 l, ;ttc.Mf. 1 .Tim. Jed faithfull and holy^walking in integritie, bclccvine in and pro- 
 ]^VcTtfttll fcfTingJefusChnft to be their Saviour. 
 niit apud panes dudiunt. oi »5»di»oSueJ'5ir.Matth. 8.u. Ephef.2.i»,|?ct. againft 5fr./?. loi. 
 
 8. They that arc without in the Apoftes fcn(c are Aliens from the Common- 
 wealth of Ifrael, ftrangers from the covenant of promife, having no hope , and 
 without God in the world : but we hope you will not piflfe fuch ra(h and unad- 
 vifed cenfure upon your brethren, who be not gathered into your focicde as fct 
 members. 
 
 9. Let the interpretation ftand, and he is without, not oncly who is no jfet 
 member of fome congrcgationall AfTembly, but he that is not fubjeft to the 
 ccnftirc of the community of that particular^combination few or many, with, 
 or without Officers. And fo all the reformed Churches in the world who afcribe 
 the power of the fceyes to the Presbitry or Clades , and not to the community, 
 and ferae amongft yowr (elves (if not the moftj (hall be without alfo. 
 
 And therefore we cannot think approved Chriftians defiring to be received 
 unto the Sacrament, either to be without, or uncapable of Church cenfures for 
 the time biing if they fhould offend, though not fct members of any particular 
 congregation: for defiring baptifme for their children or themfclves to be ad- 
 mitted to the Lords Supper for the time they put themftlves under the ordinance 
 of Jefus Chrift there. And as they are members for the time, fb they might be 
 proceeded againft according to the rule pre(cribed by our Saviour, as they 
 would proceed with an offending member, 
 
 10. If upon juft and goodreafon a paflGige of Scripture can be cleared to 
 prove that for which it was never allcdged by any v/ritcr, we arc not to except 
 ogainft any truth of Godj becaufe it wanteth mans teiUmonie.Onely if we deiirc 
 credit in fuch cafes, our reafons muft be weightie and convincing. But for your 
 cxpofition of this text of Scripture, as yet we have not ob(ervcd one fubftantiall 
 ground.^ or approved author to be allcdged. Do6tor Ames fliewing the neceflStie 
 of Chriftians joy ning thcmfelves to fome particular Church, giveth this reafon, 
 QHoniam aliofferi nonfotefl- qtinm comurhentur figna iUa c^Hihus fide/es sh infidelU 
 Lm dlfcermpofffim, i .(^or, 5.1 2. But herein Dr. Ames manifcftly (heweth that by 
 them that are []vvithout] heathens, and unbeleevers mult be undcrftood, and not 
 bcleevers and godly men though of no particular fetled focietie for the time,, 
 for thus we conceive he argueth. The figiies and evidences whereby the faithfull 
 are to be difcerned from unbeleevers, mult not be confounded : but unlefTe Chri- 
 ftians make themfelves aftuall members of a Societle or Church, the fignes where- 
 by (he faithful! arc difcerned from unbeleevers, will be obfcured and darkncd.. 
 And if this be his reafon how can that text of Scripture be alledged for confir- 
 mation, unlefle by Cn^en witliout]] Infiuels be undcrftood. Again Doftor tAmes 
 
 in 
 
The "Rffly to the Anfvcer of the third and fourth Pofttions, 4p 
 
 in the fame book, Hh, 4. ca.ij, fpeaking of Infants to be received, it is required 
 (he faith) that they be in the covenant of grace in refpeiJ^ of outward profeffion, 
 and edimation in refpeO: of their parents, and that there is hope they fhaJl be in- 
 ftrufted and brought up in the fame covenant. 2. That Baptifme doth nioft 
 properly belong to thofc infants whofe parents , at leaft one of them is in the 
 Church, and not without^ becaufe baptifme is a figne and fealc of the covenant 
 of grace. 3. That children that are c^ft forth are in charitie to be cfteemed tiie 
 children of Chriftian parents, when there is no Juft caufe of prefuming the con- 
 trarys that in admitting unto baptifme a difference m.uft be^DUt bctweene the In- 
 fants of thofe who in fome fort belong to the Church, but openly break the co- 
 venant of God, and the children of others. 
 
 I. Becaufeadiitinaionmuft beobfervedin holy things betwccne the cleane 
 and uncleane; feeing elfe the ordinance of God cannot be prefcrved from all 
 pollution. To fay nothing of that which he addeth touching the baptifme of 
 Infants borne in fornication, excommunication, and Papiits, which is more 
 then fufEcient to cleare his meaning in theformer paflagc. To this may be added 
 that he holdeth it not neceffarie that Chriftians fhould gather themfelvcs into a 
 particular fociety, but as opportunitie and occaiion fhould offer it felf. So that 
 it was never his mind to cenfure them who be not gathered into ChurchXove- 
 nant, becaufe they want means or opportunitie as men without in the Apoftica 
 
 fcnfe. 
 
 His judgement is further manifefted in his fccond Manudu(^ion. ^7^. 33. So 
 many parifh AfTemblies o^ England (S^ix\\ he) as have any competent iwmibcr of 
 good Chriftians in them, united to worfhip God ordinarily in one Societie , io 
 many have the efifeiKe and intcgrall forme ofa vifible Church, and all they have 
 intirc right to Chrift, and to all the meancs of injoying him, how ever they arc 
 dcfcftive in the puritie of their combination, and in the complcat free cxcrcifing 
 of their power, whereupon a reverend "^ Elder now among you * ^^ j^^ ^ .^ 
 draws this conclufion, Ergo to difchurch them wholly, and to seff. 4 o^ exam p\. 
 feparatc from them as no Churches of Chrift, or to dcniebap- 181. 
 tifme to the Infants of their knot^n members is not warrantable by. any rulf of 
 Scripture that I know, nor juftified by any aflertion or pradifc. 
 
 (*/^nfw.^,Co'ifiderati(m, * 
 \7\ /E may adde he?^eunto for a fifth GonfideratioUj the evill and perni- 
 ▼ V cious confequcnces of extending communion in Church priviledget 
 beyond the bounds of Church fellowfhip: for thus, i. Thecxtraordinaric office 
 of the ApoiUes, and theordinarie office of Pallors and Teachers will be much 
 confounded, if the latter be as illimited as the former in the execution of thcic 
 office beyond tffe bounds of their ov»^n particular Churches. 2. The diftin^tion ^ 
 of Church aflcmblies Iromthe confufed multitude is abrogated j if without 
 
 H J member^ 
 
5 O The Re^ly to the Anfwer of the third And fourth Pofitions: 
 
 mcmbcrfhip in s particular Church the parents may communicate with the 
 Churches in the Lords Supper, and their (eed in baptifme. 3 . The Church fti.ill 
 indanger the profaning ofthcfeals, and want one /pcciall meancs whereby the 
 grace and pictie of men may be decerned and made known vfor if without re- 
 fpe£k CO tbtir Charch eftatc men of approved pietie (as you fay) arc to be admit- 
 ted to fcllowihip in the feales> how (hall their pietie be approved to tha Church 
 not by their own report of themfelves alone without atteftation of fuch as are 
 approved by the Church-, and how can fuch beare witnefle to their approved 
 pietie, who againft light refufc to profcfTe fubjf ftion to the Gofpel of Chrift by 
 orderly joyning themfelves in fellowship with fome approved Church of Chrift 
 as members thereof when they have opportunitie thereunto, feeing fuch fellow- 
 (hlp is an a6lion of pietie required of all belcevers in the fecond Gc-ijimandment' 
 and true pietie frameth mens (pirits to haverefpeft to all Gods Commandments! 
 And we have had much experience of it , that men of approved pietie in the 
 judgement of fome have been found too light, not onely in the judgement of 
 others, but even of their own confciences, when they have come to triall in of- 
 fering themfelves to be members of Churches, with fiich a bleffing hath God fol- 
 lowed this order of taking hold of Church-Covenant by publick profeffion of 
 faith and repentance before men be admitted to the (cales ; but this meanes of 
 difcoverie of mens pietie and finceritie would be utterly loft, if men (hould be ad- 
 mitted unto the Lords table without entring in Church-fcllpu (hip. 
 
 1 
 
 Reply ^ 
 F it be repugnant to Divine Inftitution to admit of approved Chriftians law- 
 fully baptized, walking in the faith, members of the vifible Churches , and 
 What though this inconvc. P^itakers of Church priviledges among usto the Lords 
 hicncedo arifc fometimcs ^upper,or their children to baptifme, becaufc they 
 through mans coil upticn it be not entred into Church fellowfhip according to 
 fiiouli be othcrwifc; and we your order, then it is unlawfull though no fuch cvill 
 muft c V cr confider of the confequences are to be feared. 
 nature of Gods oidinanccs ^ 
 
 in their right ufe, &c. Kfih. againft Ber. pa. il j. 
 
 But if by accident fome abufe fhould fall out, the evill is to be prevented by all 
 Rcjpondh ca((am r.ul- lawfull meanes : but the faithfull are not utterly to be de- 
 '^llt^Jn^. barred oftheorderof God, wheretothey have rightand 
 in qm adcjui hapt.ve- ^^^l^by his tree grant and gracious invitation. And no 
 Timnt cum pLccatorum queftion but the feales of the Covenant may be profaned 
 (ignitione vec ipfe potc many times when it is not in the power of the difpenfers 
 fiatem h beret cos ex^ to put back or expelHuch as profane them. IftheCon- 
 •ij: ;;r cxc.m.dignu 2t t^ gregation (hail admit of, or toleratean unworthy mem- 
 'dcPresbp 25. Dcr^ the Chuichcs priviledges arc profaned 5 and yetwc 
 
 conceive 
 
Tte Hefty to the Anfaer of the third and fourth Pojitions^ 4f\ 
 
 conceive you wilf fay the Paftor is not faulty in receiving him, when the Church 
 doth tolerate unworthily, if he do what pertaincth to his office to keep the ho- 
 ly things of God from contempt. But in the cafe propounded there is no feare 
 or danger of fuch confequences neccflaric to follow: for the queftion is not of ail 
 forts at randame, but of Chriftians profeffing the faith in- Re^efdne quis enim tl-^ 
 tirely, lawfully baptifed, known, and approved to the ^osafacrisprohibuerat^ 
 confciences of the wife and Judicious vifible members of ^^- ^.^Jfi^ tamfiele- 
 theChurchesofChrift,mo„gi« often admitted Co the r^^^^^rX^f 
 Lords Table, whether thefe cither iufhcicntly knownc le judicium JIbi quifq^ 
 imto you, or orderly recommenced may upon defire and fumat qua wox fuerit 
 fuite themfelves be admitted to communicate in the Lords Ecciefi^faciesr fedprte- 
 Supper, and their children to be baptiaed, what feare is 7^"'/,^ "f ^^''^ '^f'^ 
 there now that the extraordinaric office of the Apoftles, j^yjL' 'f S'' '«'"« 
 and the ordinanc office of Paftors and Teachers Ihall be pollui reffam alterim 
 much or little confounded f Is this to take as illimited confcientiam.tdp<ux6. 
 power as the Apoftles did in the execution of their office? [f^ emmprivatorum ar» 
 How (hal this tend to abrogate thcdiftinftion oJChurch iTdix\mw'^S'\%uU 
 Aflemblies from theconhiCcd multitude > or how is the fum nimis%/7otiEe^ 
 profanation of the (eals thereby indangered > tlefi^ ijalde damnofum 
 
 You aske if without refpcft to their Church cftatc frijfsf-ld.p.So. 
 men of approved pictic (as we fay) are to be admitted into fellowfhip in the 
 fcalg, how (hall their pietiebe approved to the Church, not by their own report 
 of themfelves alone, &c. Donotyou fay the fame. That there be many godly 
 perfons, and of approved pietie among us, who are not approved by their own 
 report of themfelves (unlefle ye will take their wifedome, faith^ patience , cou- 
 rage, conftancie, and holinefle of life for their report ) approved , we fay by as 
 ample and fufficient telHmonie as the Apoftles exafted of them whom they re- 
 ceived into Church fellowftiip, or can be required of members admitted unto 
 the priviledges of the Church, if men will follow the Lords direftion^or as you 
 can give to ordinary members of your focicties. You profefTe hi?,h refpcft of 
 your brethren in old £;^^/4W, but it feemes you judge them infufficient to give 
 orderly teftimonie of the finceritie and uprightneffe of approved Chriftians well 
 known unto them, and living among them, which two cannot well agree. We 
 fpeake not of fuch who againft light rcfufe to profcfle fubjeftion to the Gofpel 
 of Chrift to joy ne themfelves orderly in fellowfhip with fome approved Church: 
 But of fuch as do with all readlneffe profefTe fubjeaionj and walk accordinoly * 
 and heartily defire to joyn themfelves to the moft pure and compleat Churches 
 fo farre as they arc taught of God, or have opportunitie thereunto. And if ex- 
 ception be taken againft them onely, who refufe againft light to fnbmit them- 
 felves to die Gofpel; by what rule do you proceed when you judge men to re- 
 fcfe againft light, or debarrethem who do not rcfufe againft confcicncc, but for 
 
 Jack 
 
N' 
 
 5 z The Refty to the Atifwer of the third atidfeurth Tofitioni, 
 
 lacReof opportunitie. No doubt fas you fay) but now and thcnaman of ap- 
 proved pietic in the judgement of fome may be found too light, yea and in the 
 judgement of hisowneconfcicncc when he hath come totriall. And noqueftion 
 but many have been admitted by the Church, who indeed and truth arc much 
 toolight -, and fome refufed who deCerved better then they that caft them off, 
 we will not difpute t^t crrours have been committed , nor what blelfing yc 
 have found upon yoiSr proceedings -we heartily befeech the Lord to keep your 
 congregation pure, make his ordinances more and more cffeftuall, go before 
 you in the way wherein you fhould walk, and multiply his mercies upon you in 
 the fame. But this we are pcrfwadcd, and therefore wc (peak, that in debarring 
 godly Chriftians from the Lords Supper, and much more the children of thoft 
 parents who are in covenant with God, from holy baptifme you exceed your 
 commiffion you have received from God, and go beyond your due bounds. And 
 notwithftanding your cir^umfpeftion more worthy and faithfull Chriftians 
 have been denied when of lefle worth, and meaner fufficiencies have paflcd, and 
 been by you received. 
 
 One have power to difpencc the Seales but they that are oalled to the office 
 of Miniftery ; and no man can be fo called till firft there be a Church to call 
 him, feeing the power of calling Minifters is given by Chrift unto 
 ^^clal^^ Church; and thence it follows, that all thofe that defire to par- 
 take of the Seales, are bound to joy ne themfelves in Church ftate, 
 that fo they may call a Minifter to difpenfe the Seales unto them. And this dutic 
 by the appointment of God lieth not onely upon fome Chriftians, but equally 
 upon 7i&'.cYgo no Chriftian can expeft by the appointment of God to partake 
 in the Seals till he have joyned himfelfe in Church fellowfbip, and in the call of 
 the Minifter. And indeed feeing a Church, and a Minifter called by the Church, 
 is of fuch nectlfitie for the difpenfing of the (eales, it may fceme unreafonable 
 that fome Chriftians (hould be bound to become a Church, and to call a Minifter 
 thit fo the fcales may be difpenfed, and other men ( when this is done ) have 
 equall libertic to the fcals who rcfufe to joyae unto the Church. 
 
 Re^ly, 
 'THis conclufion is not to the queftion propounded, for we fpeake of fuch as 
 cannot, not of fuch as refufe to joyne themlelves unto the Churchy or if they 
 do not joyne, it is not out of contempt or wilful! negleft of Gods ordinance, 
 or defire of c.u nail libertie, and not to be in fubje6tion to Chrift, but for lacke of 
 opportunities or through their fault that (hould admit them but do not. For i^ 
 in any of your Churches yon ftial] require more of members to be admitted then- 
 Chrift the chicle Shepherd of the flock doth, or prdle that upon their confci-' 
 
 * cnces 
 
The Re fly to the Arjfwer of the third and fourth t&fitioytf. ^^ 
 
 cnccs which they cannot confent unto , if they (hall fit downc quietly for the 
 time and (crve God in private3when they cannot injoy Church pnviledges, it is 
 your fault and not theirs. And they may more ^uflly challenge the AlTemblie 
 as injurious and tyrannically then you them as wilfull defpifers of Gods ordi- 
 nance. Weaccufcnotthe wifedome and difcretion of your Ghuchcs,but wc 
 know the zealous mukrtude may fometimcs be rafti ; And when a rea(bn is cra- 
 ved of your judgement, why you do debarrc the moft knowneand approved 
 ChriiUans which come over, and their children from the feals of the covenant, 
 wediflikeyoufhould put this note upon them, as if againft light they refufed 
 orderly to fubjeftthemfelvcs to the Gofpel of JefusChrift: What warrant you 
 have thus to cenfure, what ufe of this manner of difpute we leave it to your god- 
 ly wiftdome to judge. In the Confideration it felf there are many Propolicions 
 couched together? which we mud examine (everally as they have reference to 
 theconclufion intended, and then try whether it can be rai fed from them. 
 
 The firll Propofition, That none have power to difpence the Scales^ but they 
 that are called to the office of Miniftcry, is freely granted. ^ 
 
 The fecond. That no man can be (b called till firft there be a Church to call 
 him, needeth explication. For by the Church you muft underftand the com- 
 roumty of the faithful!, as they are one bodie, without officers or guides. And 
 fuch a Church there cannot be without a Miniflery to call and admit them into 
 Church- fellowfhip. The Apoftles baptifcd not themfclves, but by the help of 
 others, & thofe not called of the people to bebaptifed,! Cor.i.iy. The Apoftles 
 appointed by ele£i:io,ElderS in every city or Church. And Co there was a Church 
 before Elders were (et over itjbut this Church was a focictle of beleevers by bap- 
 tifme admitted into Church-fellowfhip. There can be no Church to call a Mi- 
 niikr to feed the flock, and difpence the feals, till they have received the dodrine 
 of falvatlon intirely, and by the feale of initiation be (blemnly received into 
 the focierJe of men profeffing Chrift . A company of men converted to the faith 
 being unbaptized, may and ought to delire baptifine , but they have not power 
 to elc£t and chufeoiie among themfelves to difpence the (eales unto the reft for 
 ought is to be found in Scripture : The Churcheg conftitutioja into ^^^ a^^ainft 
 which Chriftians are to gather themlclvcs mult be Apoftolicalland jg^r/i. fifcely 
 not one day or houre younger in nature and forme of it, thus the veiwed./>. 40. 
 firrt Church of the New Teftament. But it can neve^ be (hewed in Scripturcthac 
 anyfocietie ofunbaptifedperfonsdidfirflchufc from among them a Paftor or 
 Teacher by whom they might be baptifed: you cannot produce one example or 
 other proofe in the Scripture, of one man teaching the Gofpel minifterially but 
 he was baptifed, and a member of a true Church , or of a focietic who made 
 choice of a Paf!or and teacher, but they were baptifed pcrfbns. 
 
 The third Propolition,That the power of calling Miniflersis given by Chrift 
 unto the Church, muit alfo be rightly underftood : For by the Church ronft.be 
 
 ;^ I ant: 
 
J 4 The %ep!y to the Anf\\>er of the third and fotiYth Tofitions, 
 
 meant ihefocictie of the faithful! J not onely ingrafted into Chrift, ^t into the 
 ftateof falvation^ and made heires apparent of everlailing bJefledncfIc > but fo- 
 lemnly enti ed and inrollcd into the focietie of Chrills flock, and acknowledged 
 members by free adniiflion into ihe Scales of the Coven?int. Againc, by the 
 Church ifvvefpeakc of ordinary calling, mud not be underitood of the faith- 
 fuil alone, but their guides and officers together with them, who are togoe 
 before the red , and to dire£t and governe them in their choice. Neither can we 
 fay, th.it any two or three beleevers linked together in focietie doc make fuch a 
 Church, as to whom the calling of the Minifter doth belong : but that right was 
 given by Chrift co fuch Churches as were gathered and eftablifted by the Apo- 
 ftles. The Church hath a Mmiftery of calling one whom Chrift hath defcribed 
 that from Chrift he may have power of Cffice given him in the vacant place. 
 But the office, gifr^and power of the Miniftery, is immediately from Chrilt and 
 not from the Church. The Church doth neither virtually nor formally give 
 power to her Officers but minirterially onely , as minlftring to him who hath 
 power and vertuc to conferrc it. And this right of eleftton is fo given to the 
 communitie and body of the people , that if they have confentcd to give away 
 their right, or if it be taken injurioufly from them , the calling of the Minifter 
 notwithftanding may be triiCj and minifteriall ads done by him that is thruft 
 upon the people without their confent may be efFeftuall to their falvation. A 
 wrong it is altogether to debarre the godly of their confent in the calling of 
 fuch as muft watch for their foules ; but it makes not the calling it ^dk a mecre 
 nyllitie -jfor then many Churches in the world within a few hundred yearea after 
 Chrift (hould have wanted both miniftery and Sacraments, and they would have 
 been altogether deftiiute of both miniftery and Sacraments for many hundred 
 yeares. 
 
 The fourth , That all thofe who defire to partake in the Scales , are bound to 
 joyne themfelves together in Church-ftate , that fo they may call a Minifter to 
 difpence the Scales unto them , will not follow from the former righdy under- 
 ftood. We deny not but Chriftians are bound to joyne themfelves together in ho- 
 ly fcilowfhipjifGod give them opporiunitie: but they muft partake in the Scales 
 before they can joyne themfelves together in Church-ftate. And fuch as for lack 
 of meanes and opportunitie cannot joyne themfelves into fuch an eftate , or be 
 difperfed by perfecution, or be deftitute of Paftors and Teachers, may for a time 
 defire and feek to have the feales d'fpenccd unto them by the Paftors and Teach- 
 ers of other Societies, with v^/hom they hold communion in the faith. The peo- 
 ple alfo who are deprived of right and libertie to choofe their Paftor, may defire 
 and feek to have the Scales difpenccd unto them by him who is fet over them, 
 Ifa company of Infidellsilhould be converted to the faith , they muft defire to 
 partake in the ordinances of grace before they could joyne together in a Church- 
 way to call a Minifttf of tbcir own, who might adminifter the Sacraments unto 
 
 them. 
 
The Reply to the Anfwer of the third and fourth Tofnlons', 5 j 
 
 them. To make Difciples and baptize arejoyned together. And j^^ 
 if thefe Propofitions be allowed for current, a nation or people Madi.tV* 9. 
 plungod into Idolatry or Infidelitie,or otherwife difchurchcd,can- 
 notby ordinary mcanes recover into a Church-eftate^ wherein they may law- 
 fully and according to Gods appointment dcfire or cxpeft that the Scales of the 
 Covenant (hould be difpcnced to them. 
 
 The fifth Propofition rifcth beyond mcafure, that no Chriftian can cxpeft by 
 the appointment of God to partake in the Seales till he have joy ned himfelfe in 
 Church-fellowftip and the calling of the Miniiler. Wee conceive you will not 
 fay that children and women have to doe in the call of the Minifter ( for women 
 they are debarred by their fex as from ordinary Prophcfying , fb j Cor.14. 54, 
 from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man) 1 5. 
 
 If fome part of the Congregation doc not confent in the cleftion Tit.2.1 i,t 2, 
 of Paftors or Teachers, have they not right to expeft to have the f'^^'^^§* ^"' 
 Scales of the Covenant difpcnced to themfelves or their fcede > If 
 the people be deprived of that libertie to chooft or call their Minifter, muft they 
 feperate from the ordinances of worfhip there difpcnced, and from the Congre* 
 gations as no true Churches ? If fomc pcrfons by the providence of God live in 
 fuch places where they cannot joyne in Church-fellowftiip and call of the Mini- 
 fter C as fuppofc the Chriftian wife, childe, or fervant ) nor lawfully remove to 
 any fuch Societie, muft they and their children live asftrangcrs and aliens from 
 the Covenant of grace, wherein they may not exped to partake of the Scales^. 
 If Infidels be converted to the faith, muft they not partake in the Scales, bccaufe 
 they cannot joync in Church- fellowlhip and call of the Minifter, before they be 
 admitted to Baptifme ? 
 
 Here you fay the people muft joync together in the call of the Minifter, before 
 they can lawfully deiire to be admitted to the Seales. And another Hoh. ag, 2ern, 
 hath zealoufly affirmed ( It is a prefumptuous fin in any to choofe p^u^i^, 
 an Officer not trained up and tryed (fell,) in the debating, difcuiCng, carrying, 
 and contriving of Church-affaires, asalfo in admonition,cxhortation,and com- 
 fort, publickly ocealioncd and fo manifcfted ) Lay thefe two together, and let it 
 be confidered how long many a poore foule converted to the faith muft be com- 
 pelled to want the comfort of Gods ordinances. Befides, if a people be joyned 
 together in Church-fellowftiip, and have called a Paftor to feed and watch over 
 them, wee dcfireC not words but )proofe why the poore difperfed ChriiHans 
 wanting means or opportunitic to joyn themfelves together into focietie, ought 
 not to dcfire^and that others be not bound in confcicnce to afford them the com- 
 fort of Gods ordinances. 
 
 If the Propofitions may ftand for good, I feare we ftiall fcarce finde that ever 
 inordinary way, the S«icraments were lawfully difpcnced or recf.ived in the 
 Chriitian Churches of God fince the firft foundation of thcm.Now the prerT>;rf f 
 
 ^ 2 hui.ki 
 
5 ^ The Re fly to the Anfwer of the third and fourth Pofttioni, 
 
 being liable to fo many exceptions, the conclufion to be laid upon them, will fall 
 oFitfclfe. And thereunto wee oppofc the dircft contrary. That Infidels con- 
 Yerted to the faith, or godly Chriftians, formerly vifible belecvers, knownc and 
 approved members of Congregations profefTing the intire faith, and J03yiing to- 
 gether in thelawfull ufe of the Sacraments for fubdancc according to the Infti- 
 tiition, may and ought to defire and expert the Seales of the Covenant to be dif- 
 pcnccd to them,and to their feedc, though for the prefent they be not joy ned in- 
 to fuch Church-ftate and call of Miniiters as you require. 
 
 ^nfrcer 7. Confederation, 
 THat our praftife may not be ccnfured as novel! aiid firigular , give os leave to 
 produce a Prefident of the like care obfei ved and approved by publick coun- 
 tenance of State in thedayes o{ Edward 6, ofblefled and famous memory , who 
 in the yeare i $ 50. granted Johannes Alafco a learned Noble man of Poland un» 
 der the great Scale of -E^;^/'^^^, libertie to gather a Church ofltrangers inZo«- 
 don, and to order themfelves according as they fhould finde to be mo(t agreeable 
 to the Scriptures. Among other godly orders eftabliflied in that Churchy that 
 which concerned the Adminiltrationof Baptifme to prevent the prophanation 
 of it we will repeate in Alafcoej owne words. Baptifme ineur Church (^ faith he^ 
 is adminiftred in the publiqiis Affcmblj of the Church after the fuhllque Sermon : 
 for feeing Baptifme dothfo belong to the Vfhole Church that none ought to he drive -i 
 thence, Tvhich is a member of the (fhurch^ nor to be admitted to it rvho is not a member 
 $fit, truelj it is e quail that that Jhould be performed pub li que Ij in the Affembly ofth^ 
 rchole (^hurch, which belongs to the whole Church in common, Againe , he addeth \ 
 Now feeing our (^hurchcs ar? hj Gods bleffingfo eflahlijhedby the Kings Cjto;r/?/>, 
 that they m^y be as it \>^^ere onep.irifh of fir angers difperfed throughout the whole Ci- 
 tie J or one body corporate ( as It is called in the Kings grant) ^nd yet all fir angers 
 doe notjojne themfelves to cur (fhurch, yea there ^e thofe who while they avoyde all 
 Churches, will pretend to the EngUJh Qhurches that they are ]oy ned with us, and to U4 
 that they are joyned to the BngHJh Churches ^ andfodoL' ahufe both them and us, le{h 
 the Enqlifh Churches and the C^liniflers thereof Jhculd be deceived by the tmpoflures 
 cf fuch men ( and that u'^der colour of our Qhurches ) wee doe baptiz.e their Infants 
 alone who have adjoyned themfelves to our Churches by publlque confejjion of their 
 faith, and obfervation cf Scclefiafticall difclpline. And that our (fhurehes may be cer- 
 tain; that the Infants that are to be bapHz.ed are their feede^ who have joyned them' 
 felves thereto in manner a for ef aid, the father of the Infant to be baptized ( ifpoffble 
 he can ) or other men andwom'^n of notable credit in the Church , doe offer the fnfant 
 to Baptifme y and doe fubll^kjy pro'fejfe that it is the feede of the Churchy yet wee fuffer 
 noflranffer to rffer Irfar.ts to'BaptiJme in our Churches, who hath not made publlque 
 profeffion of his faith, andwililngly fubmltted himfelfe to the Difflpline of the Church, 
 iefi otherwife ihey who prefent their children to 'Baptifme, might in time plead that they 
 
 belong 
 
The %ffty to t he A^ttfwer of the third and fourth P ofttidm . 5 7 
 
 lelong to our Chnrches, and fo PjohU deceive the EMgUfh Churches and their LMim* 
 fiers. To thofe which piefentcd Infants to Baptifme , they propounded three 
 qucftions, the fii ft was ; zyfre thefe Infams which yee offer the feed of this Church, 
 that they may lawfully be here baptiz^edby our Minijiery ? &c, Anfwer, Tea, This 
 Inftance is the rnorc to be regarded^bccaufc Alafco affirmeth in the preface of that 
 B0ok5th.it this libcrtie was by t he King granted to them out of his defire to fet- 
 tle alike reformation in the EngUfl? Churches, which in cffeft you fee tlie £amc 
 with our prat^ife in this particular. 
 
 Reply. 
 TTHe praftife of the Church of ftrangers in London, recorded by ']ohn Alafco, is • 
 farre different from your judgement and pra6li(c, not in fome by-circum- 
 ftances, but in the maine point in queftion \ for your judgement is that true vifi- 
 ble beleevcrs, baptized and partakers of the Lords Supper in other Churches not 
 yet gathered into Church-eftate orfellowfliip, have no right or intercft in the 
 Scales, C they nor their fcede ) But this Church of ftrangers held no fuch opinion 
 as their own words ( which you have omitted ) doe plainly fpeake. And Pant 
 teftifyeth ( fay they ) that by Chrifts Ordinance theChurch it felfe without ex- 
 ception of any member of it^ is to be accounted cleane or holy by the miniftcry 
 of Baptifme. Whence we may eafily fee, that Baptifme doth neither belong to 
 thofe who are altogether without the Church, nor to be denyed to any member 
 of theChurch. Secondly, They held communion with the Church of England 
 as one and the fame with theirs. For fo they profeflTe : Yet neverthcleffe, that 
 we may openly fliew that the Englijh Churches and ours are one and the fame 
 Church ( though wedifFer fomewhat from them both in language and Ceremo- 
 nies ) We doe not refufe that the EngUJh may as publick wicnefles of the Church 
 offer the Infants ofour members to Baptifme in out Churches, if they have both 
 the ufe ofour language and a certain teftimony of their piety. As in like man- 
 ner our members are accuftomed to offer the Infants of the SngUjh to Baptifme in 
 the Snglijh Churches, If your judgement be this oi lht€ ngUfij Churches, your 
 judgement in acknowledging us members of true Churches , and praftife in de- 
 barring vifible belcevers and their (cede from the Seales, are oppolite the one to 
 the other. Thirdly, This order was obferved by them to prevent the impoftures 
 offome, who whilft they avoydcd all Churches, pretended to the SngliJB, that 
 they were joyncd to the ftrangers, and to the ftrangers that they were joy ned to 
 the Englijh, But you debarr« knowne Cbriftians who defirc to joyncthemfelvcs 
 with you,not to prevent impoftures of them who avoyde all Cliurches : yea, you 
 debarrc them as men having no right to the Sacraments ^ becaufc they be not in 
 Church- fellpwftiip : and herein you can (bew no prcCdent ancient or moderne^ 
 either from Scripture or Monuments of the Church: And as your praclife is 
 without example, fo without warrant from the word of God, And this is the 
 
 I 3 niainc 
 
5 g The Re fly to the Anfv^er of the third and fourth Pofitlons. 
 
 mainc rcafon why we cannot confent unto you in this particular which we thus 
 propound. 
 
 tReafoH, 
 T^Hat facrcd order which God hath fet in his vifible Church for all his Saints 
 to keep and walk by, that is religioufly to be obferved. But for men to (ct up 
 that as a nec^ffarie order which God never allowed, approved, or commanded 
 is great prefumption* Now the Lord hath not ordained that a man Should be a 
 fet member of a particular Societie, or body politique of faithful! people joyn- 
 cd together in fpirituall Church- fellowfhip by Covenant, before he be admit- 
 ted unto the Lords Supper, or that the parents fhould be a6i:ual] vifible fet mem«^ 
 hers of fome particular diftinft body before their children be baptifed They 
 that beleeve in Jefus Chrift have received the word of promife and walk therein 
 they and their children arc within the Covenant, and have right and title to the 
 Scales of the Covenant, but in their order, the hifants to baptifme^parents bap- 
 tifed, to the Lords Supper, And if in that ftatc by divine grant they have iniereft 
 to the Sacra ments, the Church in debarring them becaufe they be not yet grown 
 into one diftinft fcparatefocietie of mutuall covenant, doth exceed the bounds 
 of her commiffion. For a minifteriall power onely is committed to the Church 
 to admit or refufe them who arc to be admitted or refufed by authoritie from 
 God : But the Church if (he thruft beleeving parents from the Supper of the Lord 
 and their feed from baptifmcjflie denicth thele benefits to them who by the 
 grace and gift of God have lawfull right and title thereto. 
 
 I. For firft5thcbaptifmeof7^/>;« was true baptifmc, and truly adminiftrcd 
 by him : And they that were baptized by him received the (eales of the Cove- 
 nant, and were efteemed members of the vifible Church : But fohyj never deman- 
 ded of them who came to his baptifme whether they were entred 
 Mmh.i6y7, jj^j^ fpirituall fellowfliip by mutual! covenant one with another, 
 Thiswasnotthcnknownetobeaneceflarie and effentiall point in the lawfull^ 
 due, and orderly adminiftration of the Sacrament. The difciples of our Saviour 
 made and baptifed difciples profcfling the faith, but not combined 
 loM^t.and into Church.ftate or fellowfhip. TheApoftles commiffion was firft 
 ]iiatt\z 19. ^o ^^3C^ ^'^^ Gentiles, and then to baptife them having received their 
 20. doftrine. And this they carefully obferved in the execution of their 
 
 roiniftery upon grounds and reafons common to them and us ; for as foone as 
 any man or nuaiber of men gladly received the doftrine of falvation , and gave 
 tlieir names to Je^ns Chrill, if they defired to be baptifed forthwith they accept- 
 ed them, never exceptin^^thut they were no (ct members of a diftinft viilole con- 
 gregation. When the firft 3000. converts, being pricked inthdr confcienccs, 
 cametoT(?r^r,andthereftoftheApoi1Ies,faying,iW^«^»^/;»mW»7' 
 A^.z.l7,l^. ypfjat/ballwe do ? Teter returns this anfwer. Recent and be baptifed 
 
 evcrj 
 
The Reply to the Anfwer of the third and fourth Pofitioms. 5p 
 
 ivery one of you in the Name of feftts, &c. For to you u the promt fe made^ and toyonr 
 children^ and to all that are afar off, &c,kz foon as the Samaritanes bckevcd,?/;/- 
 lip ^ho preached the things that concerned the kingdom ofCjod^they Uvrf 
 haptifedbnh m';n andwomen, When the Eunuch asked of Philips See ^^*g * ^ ** 
 here is vpater, ^hat doth let me to be haptifed^. he anfwereth not if thou & i [, \6, 1 7, 
 becft fii ft received as a fet member into a vifible congregation thou A(f^ t.-^j, * 
 maycfi : but ifthoubeleevefi wit hall thy heart, thou may^ft. (fan any man foy bid wa- 
 ter ((aith Teter^ fpeaking of the Gentiles upon whom was powred the gift of 
 the holy Ghod) that thefejhouldnot be baptifed who have received the . ^ 
 gift of the holyGhofl as well 04 \V^ ? At that time it was not held a bar and 1 1 . 1^* 
 fufficient to keep them from the Sacrament of baptifmCjbecaufe they 17. 
 were not fet members of a diftjnft focietie, which had it been eflcntiall to the 
 lawful! and orderly adminiftration of the Sacrament?, queftionlefle it had been 
 obferved in the firft Inftitution and adminiftration of them. Annanias bapti^fcd 
 Taul before he was any {et member of a congregationall Aflgnbly . 
 Ljdia^ViA her houfhold , the Jaylorand his houfe were b^tifed ^?* ^'^ 
 without regard to their Church- eftaic. For in the (amc night ^^^ * ' ''^ 
 which he was converted, he was baptized with all his houfliold. 
 And this was done not by the Apoftles onely upon fpeciall dif- 
 pcnfation, but by others upon grounds and reafons common iiattkas^' 
 to them, and all ages,'z^/^. becaufc they were difciples^beleeved, Aet^ 1. 4 ufnd 
 gladly received the Word, had received the holy Ghoft , were 8.12,15,57* 
 called, and the promife was made to them, and to their feed, ^^^'^' ^onf. e. 10. 
 
 even to all them that were afarreoff. ^/^^'': ^^^-ll* 
 
 Angltc. (^ ah eo 
 neminem qui velit prof terinomen Chrifii ne infantes qu'tdem Chriftianornm hominum, C'c. 
 Scot.conf.c.i^. 
 
 Now if the Apoftles difpenfed the feales to them that were 
 not in Church.fellowfhip upon common grounds, it is not "^ '^^^' ^^t j *^^"" 
 eirentialltothelaivfuUdifpenfation of the feales, that all ifZ^.'^p^o^^' 
 partakers (hould be under fuch a covenant. If the baptifed Argent. conf, ca. \. 7. 
 difciplcs, beleever?5 fuch as gladly received the Word , and ^axon, confef. ca. 14. 
 had received the gift of the holy Ghoft,then the feals of the '^'^''^^- ^^"^^ ^^^^ ^d 
 Covenant belong unto fuch, and by the grace of God they ^/«^ '^-'^''^ ^>/«^>e'<?. 
 have ri^ht and title unto thofe priviledges. 
 
 2. Aswt received the Sacraments from God by divine Mitution ; fo muft 
 we leainc from him, how and to whom the fame areto beadm;niftred , obfer^ 
 ving what he hath commanded without addition or diminution. But We have 
 learned from Chrift the Author of Baptifme, and the conftant praftifc of the 
 Apcftles ( the firft difpenfcrs of thefc holy feales who beft underftood the mind 
 aiidpicafure of the Lord herein) that fuch as be called of God to whom the 
 promife is made, who have received the gifts of the holy Ghoft, beleeved in the 
 
 Lord 
 
6o The Reply to the Anfiver of the third and fourth Tofttions, 
 
 Lord Jcfus, prcfefled their faith in him, and repentance for (ins paft with piir- 
 pofe ot amendment for the time to come, that fuch have right unto, and dcfiring 
 it ought to be received unto Baptifmc, and arc greatly wronged if they be de- 
 prived ofthatunfpeakable benefit. 
 
 3. By a lively faith a man is made a living member of Jefus Chrift , and hath 
 internall communion with him by the intire profedion ot Chriftian faith joyned 
 with conformity of life in righteoufneffcj and holinefle, and fellowfhip of love, 
 he is a member of the vilible congregation or flock of Chrift^though no fet mem- 
 ber of a free diftin6l independant Socieiic. And Baptifme is the (eale of our ad- 
 million into the congregation or flock of Chrift •, but not evermore of our re- 
 ceiving into this or that particular focietie as fet members thereof. This latter 
 is accidentall to baptifme, not eflcntiall. It may fall out to be fo, but it is not 
 ever necefl[aiic; nor is the Sacrament to be denyed, nOr can we fay it is imper- 
 kdXy admhuftred where it cannot be attained. For the Catholique Church is 
 one intire bodieonadeup by the colle^ion and agregation of all the faithfull 
 unto the unity tl^cof; from which union there arifeth unto every one of them 
 iuch a relation to 3 dependance upon that Church Catholique as parts ufe to 
 have in rcfpcftof the whole. And this holds true^ notonely of (bund bclee- 
 vers in refpeft ofinternallkllowfliip with Chrift their head, and fo one with 
 another j but of all men profeffing the true and intire doftrine of faith and fal- 
 vationin refpe6t of them that hold and profefle the iame faith of Chrift, and 
 worfhip God according to hiswill; whereupon it foUowcth that neither par- 
 ticular perfons, nor particular guides, nor particular Churches are to workc as 
 feverall divided bodies by themfelves, but arcto teach, and be taught jand to do 
 all other duties as parts conjoyned to the whole, and members of the fame 
 flock or focietie in generall : And fo beleevers profeffing the faith, and walking 
 in holincfle, may and ought to be admitted to the Sealcs as aftuall members of 
 the Church of Chrift, and fheep of his pafture, though not fet members of one 
 rongregationall Church. 
 
 4. Not to infift upon this here, that it hath and may fall out many times 
 through jgnorance^raihnefle, or pride, of a prevailing faftion in the Church, 
 that the true members of the Catholique Church, and the beft members of the 
 Orthodox viiible fleck, or Church of Chrift, may be no aftuall members of any 
 diftinft Societie, and (liall they for this be accounted men out of Covenant, and 
 their poftciitie be cftecmed aliens and ftrangers : but if they be in Covenant, then 
 are they holy in refpeft of the Covenant, and their children holy as pertaining 
 i?o6. aoninft ^o the Covenant^and have right to the Sacrament of initiation. 
 Xcr.pa()u Thus Mr. i?o^. frameth thp argument. The Sacrament of Bap- 
 Matth. is.i 9. tifme is to be adminiftred by Chrifts appointment, and the Apo- 
 Aa. 2. 41. ^ijgg example one'y to fuch as are (externally, and fo far as men 
 ^d lo V?-^' ""HgO tauahtandniadcdifciples^do receive the Word glad-. 
 and 2. 3^/ ly, do belceve, and fo prpfefle, have received the holy Ghoft, and 
 
 in. 
 
TheRefly to the Atffwer of the third atsd fourth Pofitlofts. ^I 
 
 totheirTeed. And thus the Church of God ever fincc the Apoftles iCor.M^. 
 daycsunderftood the covenant and promife, and their praftife in receiving bc- 
 Iccvers and their fecdto the Seales of the Covenant was anfwcrable, as might be 
 (hewed at large, if it was not a thing confcfled. Hereunto you anfwcr. 
 
 tAnfwer, 
 \7^\7^Here the holy Ghoft is given and received (which was the cafe of the 
 Centurion) and where faith is profcfled according to Gods ordinance 
 (which was the cafe of the reft) there none may hinder them from being bapti- 
 fcd, vU. by fuch as have power to baptifethem. In the Inftances given baptifmc 
 was adminiftred either by Apoftles or Evangelifts, not ordinary Paftors: the per- 
 (bns baptifed, if they were members of Churches, had a right to baptifme in 
 their ftate, and the Apoftles being Officers of all Churches might difpenfe the 
 feales to them where ever they came, which yet will not warrant ordinary Offi- 
 cers to do the fame. Nor is it improbable but that all thefe were in Church-or- 
 der, <iArct. on <tAB:, i 8. 1 . is of opinion, that the Centurion had a conftituted 
 Church in his houfe; the Eunuches coming to Jerufalem to worihip, * ^ g 
 argueth him to be a ProfeIyte,and member of the Jewifh Church not ' • 7« 
 yet diflblved : and therefore upon the profcftion of the Chriftian faith capable 
 of Church priviledges at that time. As for Ljdia and the Gay lor it appeareth 
 that in the beginning of the Gofpel there was a Church at Thillppi which com* 
 municated with P^«/ as concerning giving and receiving: Ashe ex- ^^ 
 prefly faith^ before his departure was from Macedoniay which depar- 
 ture was immediately upon the Gaylorsconverfion. In which refpe£t what 
 fhould hinder that Lydia and the Gay lor fhould firft be joyned to the Church, 
 and then to be baptifed though it be not mentioned in that ftory? As neither 
 there is mention of a Chriftian Church, which Taut mentioneth in his Epiftle 
 to the Philifftans. At leaft it is probable that Lydia was a member of the Jewifh 
 Church, becaufe (he is faid to be one that worfhipped God. But if any man think 
 they were not members of any Church yet baptifcd, though we fee not how it 
 will be proved, yet if it were fo, the objeft doth no whit weaken the argument, 
 which fpeaketh of the ordinary difpenfation of the (eales, and not of what was 
 done in an extraordinary way. So that fuppofe that in the cafes alledged, bap- 
 tifme difpenfed to fome that were not in Church-feIlowlhip> yet the examples 
 of the Apoftles and Evangelifts in fo doing will not warrant ordinary Paftors 
 to do the like. Thereafon ofthe difference why Apoftles and Evangelifts might 
 adminifter Baptifme out of Church-order, whereas Paftors and Teachers may 
 not, is double, i . Becaufe their calling gave them illimited power over all men, 
 efpecially Chriftians wherefocver they came. But we do not find that ordinaric 
 Paftors and Teachers can do an a£l of power, but onely over tlieir own Church, 
 which hath called them to watch over them in the Lord. 2. Becaufe they were 
 
 K affifted 
 
6 2 Tift %pply to the JrtJ^'ir dfthe third 4ttd fmrth Tofitlous, 
 
 affiled with an immediate direftion and guidance of the holy Ghoft, in the 
 places ofiheiradminirtration in the cafes alledgcd. But ordinary Church- Offi- 
 cers are to waHce according to ordinary rules of the Scripture in the difpenfatiop 
 of the Scales, and not to ex pcft immediate infpirations and extraordinary reve- 
 lations for their helpe in fuch cafes. This difference between Apoftles and ordi- 
 nary Church OfBcers muft needs be acknowledged, or otherwifc a man n^ight 
 from therr example jaftifie Bapiifmc in private houfes. 
 
 Reflj. 
 
 TTHis Anfwcr ftands of many parts, wherein thing? doubtfuil are affirmed, and 
 that which moreweakcnech the force of the confideration before alledged^ 
 and the Anfwcr it felfe, then of the reafon v^hereunto it is applycd. For 
 
 Firft , If where the holy Ghoft is given and received, and where faith is pro- 
 feficd according to Gods ordinance, there none may hinder them from being 
 bapti2ed, viz., by fuch as have power to bapti2e them : Then either men that 
 have received the holy Ghoft, and profede the faith, be members of the Church, 
 or Baptifme is not a priviledge of the Church , then it is not eflentiall to the firft 
 Inftitution of Baptifme, that it fhould be difpenced to none but fuch as were en- 
 tered into Chiirch-feIIowlhip,or were fet members of a congrfgationall Affem- 
 bly. Then the Apoftles in difpenfing the Scales onto fuch,or commanding them 
 to be difpcnccd,did walk according to the rules of Scripture, and upon grounds 
 common to them and m^viz^xhty admitted them unto the Sacramtntf who had 
 right and intcreft to them,according to the mindc and pleafurc of the Inftitutor, 
 not extraordinarily revcaled^bcfides the common rules, or by fpeciall difpenia- 
 tion and prerogative excepted from the common rule , but made knowne in the 
 Inftitution it felfe. And then the difficultie remaining is onely this, whether a 
 Paftor or Teacher hath authority from Chrift to difpence the Scales of the Cove- 
 nant to one who hath right and title to them, and doth orderly dcfire that bene- 
 fit becaufeheis not as yet received as a (et member of that particular focietie 
 tvhich your pra6^ife in admitting of (ct members of other Congregations unto 
 the Scales doth ma nifeftly convince. For if both have equal] intcreft unto the 
 Scales^ the Paftor upon lawful! (uite and requcft hath equal] authoritie to receive 
 the one as well as the other. 
 
 Secondly , In the particular Inftanccs given, itis not probable that Baptifme 
 was evermore adminiftrcd by Apoftles or Evangclifts; For before the death of 
 
 Chrift, the Difciples baptized when they were properly neither 
 Jc ^ \^* Apoftles nor Evangclifts : After the death of Chrift ( nottoinfift 
 
 upon conjeftures whet her any afliftcd the Apoftles in the baptizing 
 of the flrft three thoufand converted ) it is not ccrtaine, whether Peter baptized 
 Ad. lo. 48. CorncliH4 and his family, or coaimanded others then prefent with 
 
 him 
 
The Reply to the Anfwer oft be third and fourth ^ofitions, 6 J 
 
 him to baptize them : the words may be read : €t JKJfit eos haptiz^^ ^, . . 
 
 ri in nomine *Dotxini, Syr, & Arab» Prdcepit eis ttt haptizarentfir, ^^^ ^ * ^ ^" 
 The IntcrlincaryglolTcleaveth it doubtfullj^/cf ;«/«// T/<f/^/'/)j/2>. 5^^. \af^ /^ 
 Others are ofophiion that T^^rrr did baptize them himfclfe. It can- p<t 260. 
 not be proved that Vhil'tp and Ananias were both Evangcliftsa when ^^' ^' * *• 
 the one baptized the 5'4w?^r/M«/ and the Banuch , the other TahL ^q'. *^' 
 Taul himfelfe baptized but a few as he teftifieth of himCelfejand ret- • •* 7^ 
 
 fon to convince that others converted by his preaching were baptized by Evail- 
 -«sliiU, we know not any. And if Philip, Ananias, and others might baptize (uch 
 aS had right and title to the Scales, being as yet no fct members of any partiailar 
 Congregation : and a Congregation deftitute of their proper Paftor, raaydefire 
 another to baptize their Infants, and difpence the Sacrament of the Supper to 
 them in that their neceffitic. And if the members of one Congregation may law- 
 folly communicate in another, then may the Paftors of particular Congregati- 
 ons upon occafion admit to the Seales of the Covenant fuch known and appro- 
 ved Chrjftians, as have right and titlethereunto, and ducly and orderly require 
 the fame ; for of all thefc the reafon is like and perpetuall. 
 
 Thirdly, It is very improbable that the perfons baptized , were in Church- 
 llate or order. If they were members of the Jewifli Church not yet diflblvedt 
 this is not to the purpofe ; for men have not right to Baptifmcbccaufe they were 
 members of the Jewifh Church, but bccaufc Difciples and ( as you fay ) joyned 
 together in Covenant, and have fcllowftiip and calling of their Miniftcr , who is 
 to difpence the Seales unto them . And Baptifme is the Sacrament of initiation, 
 not into the Jewifli but the Chriftian Churches. Secondly, when you fay, the 
 Seales in ordinary difpenfation are thepriviledges of the ^hurches. There are no Afinl- 
 fi^rs but of particular Churches. 'Baptifme and the Lords Supper are tobe^dmim^ 
 ^firedonely to the members of the Church, No focietie may larpfuUy deftre the Seales ^ 
 fsnle^e they havejoynedin the choice and calling of their AdiniBer, Beleevers not in 
 jayrtrdin Church- order are vptthout, Doeyee not in all thele underftand a Chrifti- 
 an focietie, united in a Church- way, &c. which cannot agree to 
 the members of the Jewifli Church, not yet dilTolved. Thirdly, ^S^^nft 2/>tf.e8. 
 Theconltitution of the Church ( faith M'.Robin, ) is the orderly colleftion and 
 conjunflion of the Saints into and in the Covenant of the NewTeftament ^buc 
 the members of Jewifli Churches not yet diflblvedjwcre not in fuch conftitution. 
 If the Eunuch and Centurion were profelytes and members of the Church of the 
 Jewes ; The Siraaritanes whom Philip baptized were not fo. And th it any Gen- 
 tiles, or the Gailor whom Paul baptized in the Apoflles times, were fet members 
 of a Chriftian Aflenibly before baptized, is very ftrangc. If there was a Church 
 at T'/'i/^/^/j/, yet the Gailor who was bapti-zed and converted the fame night, 
 vGOUldnotbeafetmemberby folcmne admiffion before Baptifme. Itisfaid the 
 •»Apoftles baptized thefc perfona in an extraordinary way. But in this praftifc of 
 '' K 3 the 
 
6^ The Reflj to the Anfwer of the third and fourth Poftiors, 
 
 the Apoftles two things are to be confidci ed. i , The circumfhnce of the aftion. 
 2. Thequalitie orfiibltanceoftheaft. In fbme circumftances the baptizingcf 
 fomc of thcfe perfons might be extraordinary, but thefiibftance and qualitie of 
 the aftion was grounded upon rules perpetuall and common to us with them. 
 
 I . That is done in an extraordinary way , which by peculiar priviledge of di A 
 pcnfation is made lawfull to fome one or few men, which is unlawfull to all o- 
 thers, not having the fame difpenfation, but where the ground and rcafon of the 
 action is common : we muft not conceive the thing to be done in an extraordina- 
 ry way by fpeciall difpenfation. What was done by the Apoftles upon fpeci^*! 
 icvelation and immediate dircdion^befides the ordinary and common rule, in 
 that wee are not to immitate or follow tb€m,becau{c we have not their warrant. 
 But what they did upon rcafons and grounds-reaching unto us no leile then un- 
 to them, in that we have the fame libertie, allowance, or commandement that 
 they did walk by. In one and the fame a<5tion there may be and oft is fomething 
 ordinary, fomething extraordmary or peculiar to fpeciall times or perfons. So 
 if was in the Apoftles adminiftration of the Scales : but in every place where they 
 came by illimited power ( as you fpeake ) they did baptize Difciplcs, ii they did 
 baptize •, this was proper to them,and could not be communicated to any others 
 by them ^ For there is no paflage of Scripture which teacheth this, that one Offi- 
 cer may communicate his power to another, or doe that which particularly be- 
 Ipngeth to his office by a Deputie : But that they baptized beleevers profefling 
 their faith in the Lord Jcfus, and repentance towards God , fuch as had gladly 
 imbraccd the Word, and received the gifts of the holy Ghoft : this was common 
 to them with all Paftors and Teachers, becauie they did it, not by power illimi^ 
 ted or fpeciall difpenfation, but upon thisftanding perpctu.ill reafon, thatr/v 
 fromife was made to them and to their feede, and teas many as the Lord fhall call ;'that 
 the J had received the holy Ghoft, and the kingdome of heaven belonged to them. And 
 ifthe grounds and reafons of their praftife be common reaching to us, noleflfe 
 then ujito them, the pra£tifc it fclie was not extraordinary. To fay nothing that 
 this Anfwer will not ftand with the former ; for if the parties baptized were fct 
 members of particular Societies,the Apoftles did not baptize them in an extraor- 
 dinary way, tfeey did it by the guidance and dire£^ion of the Spirit, that is trucj 
 b.utnot by guidance of difpenfation, or prerogative, whereby that was made 
 lawfull without fuch infpiration had been unlawfull. But they were infallibly 
 guidedtodoethat which was according to the word ot God^ and might ftand 
 for our direftion : tb^t in cafe it be orderly defircd a Paftor hath authoritie 
 in his owne Congregation, to receive knowne and approved Chriftians to the 
 feales of the Covenant, hath been proved before. If the Apoftles difpenced the 
 fealcs oncly to the Church, Difciplcs,faiihfull, who received thedo£trine of fal- 
 vation with gladncffe of heart, and were partaiers of the holy Ghoft, then they 
 difpenced the feales in an ordinary way, for fuch have title and intereft to the 
 
 fealei 
 
The %(^fly to the Anfwer of the third and fourth Pojttions, 6 J 
 
 fealcs by the Inftitution and appointment of God. And every Patbr by bis Of- 
 fice may and ought to difpence the feales unto fuch, within the bounds and li- 
 mits of his calling : But the Apoftks difpenced the feales oncly to the Church, 
 Difciples, faithful!, &c. 
 
 2, An Argument followeth neceflarily from particular example to agenc-* 
 rail ; when one particular is proved by another partieular^by force of the fimili- 
 tude common to the whole kinde, under which thofe particulars arc contained : 
 But the praftife of the Apoftles in baptizing Difciplcs and faithfully by force of 
 fimilitude common to the whole kinde, agreeth with the pra^iiife of Minifteri 
 receiving to Baptifme the feed of the faithful!, though as yet not Cct members of 
 any particular focietie. In fome circumftances there may be difference when ycc 
 the reafon is ftrong, ifthe difference be not in the very likeneffe it ftlfe where-* 
 upon the reafon is grounded. One circumlhnce that is materiall to the point 
 may overthrow the likenefle pretended^ and twenty different circumftances, if 
 they be not to the point in hand make no diffimilitude. Now in this matter vrce 
 fpeake of, .no.circumftance is or can be named why we (hould thinkc it lawfull 
 for the Apoftles to baptize Difciples as yet being no fet members of particular 
 focieties, and the fame (hould be unlawful! in all ca(es for Ordinary Paftorsih 
 their particular Congregations, though it be defired. 
 
 5 . What is done by extraordinary difpenfationjthat is Jawfull for themonely 
 who have received (iich difpenfation, and by them cannot be commanicatied to 
 others. But the Apoftles baptized by others fcldonie by themfclves , as hath 
 been ftiewed 
 
 4, We might urge the rule which a reverend Elder among you,giveth in ano- 
 ther matter, (fcil.) Thofe examples which are backed with fome 3ce ^.^. jp, 
 divine precept, or which arc held forth in the firft Inftituuon of an Seff: i i, pa. 
 ordinance, being part of the inftitution, or which were the con- M»,»T5>*54. 
 ftant lawfull aftionsofholy men in Scripture, notcivillbut facred fo bindeui ^ 
 •to imitation, as that not to conforme thereunto is finne. For the Aflumption to 
 this Propofition, it is plaine and natural! : But the prafti(e of the Apoftles in re- 
 ceiving the faithfull, Difciples, &c. ia backed with divine precept, held forth in 
 the firft Inftitution, and was their conftant lawfull praftifc , agreeable to the s 
 praftifc of all others who were imployed in that (ervice ; Ergo, &c. 
 
 5. In the firft conlideration, you prove the Scales to be the priviledge of the 
 Church in ordinary difpenfation, by this paffagc of Scripture, Then thej that 
 gUdlj received the Word-were i^aptized: but if Apoftles baptize by extraorainary 
 difpenfation in your fenfe this teftimony is infufficient for that purpofto % 
 
 2 Redfoff^ 
 
 OUrfecond reafon. In due order, the Scales belong to them to whom the 
 grant is given ,i^«:.. Baptifme to the feed of the faithfull, and the Lords Sup- 
 per to bdecvcrs, able to try and examine themfelvcs : But the grant is vouch- 
 
 K 3 GStS 
 
si The Rcflytd the Aafmir of the third 4>id fourth Pojitlons. 
 
 fafcd to the faithfiill and their fted, forgivcrieflTc of finnes, fanftification, aclbp-' 
 tion> and what other good things are promifed in the covenant of grace are the 
 grant or good things fealed in the Sacrament. But thofc are granted to beleevers 
 according to the covenant; and they are fo linked together, th^t under one prO- 
 hilfed all are underftood ; and if one be vouchfafcd, none is denied. When Gcd 
 promifcth to circumcife the heart, the forgivcnefle of finnes is implyed. And 
 j^ when Circumcifion is (aid to be the Scale of the righteoufneflfe of 
 
 Romlioli^rj fiii'^hjthe circumcifion of the heart byfpirituall regeneration is 
 8, p, * * included. To whomfoever then the fpirituall gift^or inward grace 
 Rom.4; 1 1, of the covenant is given and granted, to them the Seales oi that 
 ^^"'T'*'*^ giftandgrantdothbelong in their due order. But' the fpirituall 
 ^' gift or grace which is the thing fignified in the Sacrament,is freely 
 granted to true bcleeVcrs, who have received the doftrine of falvation, and walk 
 in the wayes of trijth and righteoufncflTe, therefore the priviledges of the Seales 
 belong unto them. To this you anfwer. 
 
 The Icopeof the Apoftlein the placc,/i<?7».4. 11. is not to define aSacri-^' 
 mcnt, none (hew what is the proper and adequate fubJeO: of the Sacrament ; but 
 to prove by the example of ft/V^r^^^w that a finfier is juftified before 6od, not 
 by works but by faith. Thus as Abraham the Father of the faithful! was juftified 
 before God, fomuft his feed be (that is, all beleevers whether Jews or GentilcSj 
 circumcifed or uncircumcifed ) for therefore Ahraham received circumcifion 
 which belonged to the Jews to confirm the righteoufnefte which he had beforc> 
 while he was uncircumcifedj that he might be the Father of both : but left any 
 one (hould think his circumcifion was needlefle if he was Jufiified by faith before 
 circumcifiotT, he addeth that his circumcifion was of no ufc as a feak to confiime 
 to him his faith, and the righteoufncffe which is by faith : yet as JutUfication is 
 not the onely thing that Circumcifion (caled,but the whole Covenant alfo made 
 with Akrhham and his (eed was fealed thereby ; fo Abraham is to be confidered 
 in ufing circumcifion not fimply, or onely as a beleever without Church relati- 
 on, but as a confederate beleever , and fo in the ftate and order of a vifiblc 
 Church. Though the Apofilemaketh mention ot the righteoufneflc of faitha^ 
 fealed thereby, which was not that which ferved for his purpoft. 
 
 Now that Circumcifion alfo fealed the Church- Covenant, may appear from 
 Cert, 17. p. 1O3 1 1, where you may find that Abraham and his feed, though be- 
 leevers, were not circumcifed till God called them into Church- Covenant ; and 
 there IS the fame reafon 8c ufcof B^ptifmetouswhich (crveth to fcal our juftifi- 
 cation as circumcifion did, yet not that alone, but alio the whole 
 Gal.ri6.27. covenant with all the priviledges of it,as Adoption.Sali^ification, 
 Tit. }.T. ' * ^^^^ feilowfiiip with Chrill in affeftions, and the falvation of our 
 Mat. ao.irj. fouls, aiKl the rcfurreftion of our bodies. And not onely the co- 
 i Pet. J. if. venautoTgrace' which is common to all beleevers: but Church- 
 Covenant 
 
The Kefly to tks AnJ^er of(hf {hir4 andfatdrth Pofttigns, ^j 
 
 1 Com 5.19. Covenant alfo which is peculiar to confederates. According to 
 ihat of |he Appftlc, By one Spnt we^ ^re hptizeJ into one hoUj^ i Cor . 1 2 . 1 3 . A nd 
 by onebodie h^ mcancth that particular Church of ^erm^ whereunto he wrj- 
 Itcth and faith, Now ye are the body of Chrifi, 4nd fnemhers h ^^rtlcuUr, ver. 27. 
 And ^r^^Church-memberfhip is require^ »s well to the orderly partaking of 
 gaptifmeasitwaspf Circumcifion, Nor do we find tha; prcumdfion wa§ ad- 
 rainiftred to all that were in the Covenant of grace ( as ail beleeveri were ) birt 
 onely to fuch of them as were joyned to the people of the God of tyfkrah4tn, 
 Melchi^decb was Under the covenant of grace, fo was Zof , fo was foif and his 
 foqre friends ; yet we no where read that they were eircumcifed, nor do bele^vc 
 chey were. So that if Circumerfion was ^dminiftrcd to none but thofe that were 
 joyned together in Ai^r^h^ws f^milie,ai)d to the Church of God in his fted, 
 then may not baptifmc in prdinaric courfe be gdminiftrcd to any beleevers now, 
 unleffe they be joyned to the Church of Chrift^ for parum far efi rmo. But the 
 firft 13 true, Ergo, the fecond alfo. 
 
 THe particulars in this Anfwer hath been examined gireadic, and might haye 
 wellbcenpaiTedover, becaufe it is tedious to repeat the fame things again* 
 undagaine. Two things are affirmed by you. , • 
 
 !♦. That the fcope of the Apoftle> R^m^ 4 . 1 1 . was not to define a Sacrament, 
 nor to (hew what was the proper and adequate fubjeft of a Sacramenf . But this 
 weakneth no part of the argument, tor if the Apoftle do not fully define a Sacra- 
 ment, nor mention every particular benefit or prerogative (ealcd in the Sacra- 
 ment; yet he (heweth fufficiently to whom the Sacraments in due order dp ap- 
 pertaine, even to the heires of falvation, to them that tjre juflified by faithj and 
 walk in the fteps of our Father Abraham, And thus we argue from the text of 
 the Apoftle. They that are partakers of the good things fcaled in the Sacrament, 
 to them belong the Seales of the Covenant^ according to Gods Inftitution. But 
 they that arc juftified by faith are partakers of the good things fealed in the 
 Sacrament, to them belong the Seales of the Covenant according to Gods infti- 
 tution. If Juitification be not the onely thing that Circumcihon fealed , this is 
 nothing to the point in hand. For the gifts of the holy Ghoft is not the onely 
 thingthat is fealed inBaptifme: But you confefTe in your Anfwer ioimediate.- 
 ly going before, that they have right tobaptifmewho have received the holy 
 Ghoft ; and the reafon is the fame of Juftification. Befides if Jufiification be 
 jiot the onely thing that is fealed in the Sacrament, it is one principal! thing 
 which doth infcrre the reft. For the bleffings of the covenant ofgrace in Chrift 
 are infeparable ; where one is named, others arc implyed : and where one is gi- 
 ven, no one is abfolutely war^ting. 0^^'^fl ^ ^^^^^ ^f 9^^ 'sn'ifedomey 
 riihteojtfhejfe,/a»5^ifcatio)j, am rcJemption : whom God doth j ulti- ' ^^^^ ' ' 3 o'* 
 
^S The Re fly to the Anfrver of the third And fepirth Tofttiont, 
 
 ficj them he doth fan£lifie, and them he will glorific. 
 
 2. The fccond thing you affirmcis, that not onely the covenant of grace 
 which is common to all belcevers; but Church-Covenant alfo which is peculiar 
 to confederates is ncceffii ie to the participation of the SeaJcs. This icnfe your 
 words murt beare,or elfe they reach not the point in hand : but this is that which 
 (hould be proved fubftantially, and not barely affirmed ; and which (as we con- 
 ceive) is contrary to the firft Inftitution of the Sacrament, and the lawfull pra- 
 Sife of 5^0/7/? the Baptift, our Saviour Chrift, his Apoftle?, and all others who 
 arc recorded lau^fully toadminifter the Seales. In Gen. 17. we find the firft In* 
 ftitution of circumcifion recorded, and that it was the (eale of the Covenant to 
 Anaham and his (eed, to them that were borne in his houfe,or bought with his 
 money : but we find no mention of any Church Covenant bcfidts the covenant 
 of promife which God made with Abraham. There is no mention of any 
 Church-order into which Abrahams family was now gathered more then for- 
 merly. God gave circumcifion to Abraham and his (eed as a (cale of the rightc- 
 oufneflc of faith j but that this family was firft gathered into Church- order as 
 you fpeak we cannot beleeve^ becaule the Scripture faith it not whether Lot^ 
 foby Meichizedech were circumcifed or not, we will not dilpute ; but if they re- 
 ceived not thefeale, we cannot think the rcafon to be becaule they were not in 
 Church-order as thofe times required, if any fuch thing had been required , wc 
 cannot think that either they were ignorant of it, or that they walked "againft 
 their light : But accordiug to the difpenfing of thofe times we judge as they were 
 vifiblcbcIeevers,fo they walked in that Church fellowftiip which God prefcri- 
 bed ; and therefore if circumcifion had been the feale of fuch Church- Covenant 
 as you conceive, it fhould have been given to them no Icflc then to i^brahams 
 family. But of this fufficient is faid before. As for Baptifme it is the feal of the 
 wholeCovenant, which the paffage? quoted prove it to be. Whether it be the 
 fealc of our fellowftiip which Chrift in affli6tion, and the refurrcftion of our bo- 
 dies, w^e leave it to your confideration : but that it fhould be a Seal of a Church- 
 Covenant which is peculiar to coiifederates, that to us is very ftrange. That it is 
 a folcmne admifTion into the Church of Chrift, and that of neceftitic it muft be 
 adminiftred in a particular focietie (though in the pafTige to the (^orinthians the 
 myfticall bodie of Chrift be underftood) will eafily be granted. But that it is the 
 feale of any other covenant but the covenant of grace wc cannot digeft. 
 
 The Sacraments are of God, and we muft learne of God for what end and 
 ufethey were ordained. Fut by the Inftitution or Baptifme recorded in Scrip- 
 ture we have learned it bslongeth tothcfakhfull, todifciples, to them that are 
 called of God : and a? for any other covenant nt ceflarie to the right participa- 
 tion of the Seales, there isdeepfilenceof it inthelnliitution, in the lawfull and 
 approved pra6^ife of tlie firft difpcnrers of thefe ii^cYtd myfteries. Enough hath 
 been faid to this matter alreadie, but we will conclude it with the words of that 
 
 reverend 
 
The Reply to the jinfw(r of the third 4nd fourth Portions, ^f 
 
 rcvfifcnd Author whom we have cited many times before upon occafion^«x^/}fr-. 
 W^r^i (faith he) John the 'Baptift walksd in the far/te fief Sy and by the fame rule ad^ 
 minifired laftifme in the Church whereof. he woe a member^ required of ^^^^ , , "! 
 4II that came to hU baftifme a profejfton of repentance, audi awendment j^,,, j^ \ ^^ ^J* 
 of life for remljfton cffinnes whereof baptifme "^as a feale^ and preached Luk. r ^.3. ?V. 
 Chrifitothem. This order our Lord Jefus Chrift after hisrefurredioneiUblifh-. 
 ed to* continue in the Chriftian Churches, giving a commiOTion to Matth. -8. i5>, 
 his Difciples to preach the Goljpcl to the Gentilesj and to gather ^- 
 all fuch as fhouldbelcevc through the world, as a teftimonie to ^'^ -M^^^. 
 chem/that the righteoufnefle of faith did belong to them alfo , and not to the 
 Church of the Jcwsoncly. Accordingly the Apoftles and fcrvants of Clirifl 
 werccarcfulitoobfcrve this rule in their adminiftring baptifmc. Ifhus Peter 
 when he fawthofe three thoufand fouls pricked in their hearts, preached unto 
 them concerning repentance, rcmiffion of jSn, Chrift, the prornifc, ^ 
 
 baptifmc, faith, amendment ofIife,baptiredthofe that gladly re- ^^^ ^-37-47* 
 ccived his word, and teftified the fame by joyning together in the profeffion 
 thereof. The fame couric P^i/*/' took with the Church that was 
 gathered in Samaria,where many were bapti2cd,but none till they ^" ^•'*- 14* 
 profeflcd their bcliefc of the Golpel , and their receiving of the Word of God. 
 And therefore it is faid exprcfly , fVhift they beleevedThilip preaching the things 
 cencerningthe kingdomeofGodyand the nameofjefus Chrift ^ they were baftifed 
 both men and women. When Ananias was commanded to go and 
 baptifeT^/f^Ahcobjeacd againft it at firft, till the Lord aflurcd ^^^^"-17. 
 him that he was one to whom the Sealc of the Covenant belonged 3 and then he 
 went and did it. 
 
 When Peter and thofe that came with him faw that the holy Ghoft fell on 
 forneiiWy and thofe that were aflerabled at that time in his houfe, a ^ g 
 
 whileft he (pake thefc words, To him give all the Prophets ^itnejfe^ ^'^ ^'^ ' 
 
 that through the Name of Jefus whofoevtr beleeveth on him Jball receive remiffion of 
 finnes, ^eter demanded, Q^n any man forbids ater that thefejhouldnot be baftifed, 
 which have received the holy Ghoft as Bellas we ? In this catalogue we (ce profeH. 
 fion of faith and repentance required in thetn that were admitted to partake in 
 the fcals ; but there is not a word of Church-Covenant, either in the IniUtution 
 or adminiftration of the Seales before they Were admitted to them. That Chri-' 
 ftians are folemnly ingrafted into the body of Chrift, and into particular Socie- 
 ties by the Seales, is a truth acknowledged on all fides : but that ever it was dcc^ 
 med necejflarie, that a Chriftian fliould be a fet member of a particular Congrc- 
 gationall Church before he were admitted to the Seales, or that by divine inftf- 
 lution any fuch thing is ordained as neccflarie ihercunto,that upon the grounds 
 before mentioned we denie, and cannot account it lefle then an addition to the 
 inftitution. For if the Sacraments be feales of the Covenant; of grace, and 
 
 1^ baptifme 
 
0p The Anf^et to the fifth T'ofition, 
 
 bapdrmcbyd'ivine Inftitiition belong to Difciplw, faithful!, Saints, whohav^ 
 gladly received the Word of grace, are juftificd by faith, fanftified by the Spirit, 
 adopted to be the children of God by grace,and heires apparent to the kingdom 
 of heaven ; then to debarre ftich from the Scales ^ and their feed from Baptifme, 
 bccaufcthey be not in Church-Covenant ( as youfpeake) is an addition to the 
 4f>rdinance of grace, and many waycs injurious tothc people of God. 
 
 V. P O $ I T I O K. 
 
 7hat the Pomr of Exc^mrnunieMim U fointhehdj of the Churchy th^t 
 It hat the Major fart pyai allow muji be done^ though the Pajfors and Go* 
 tremors and the refl of the A(femhlj be of another mtnde^ and that per- 
 adventttre upon more ftibjfantiall re^Jons. 
 
 ^nfwer. 
 
 ncj\Parli.Pel. ip thcf Queftion had been. Whether the power OfExcommunlGati- 
 Eukficiflic(t. i Qn iig, in the body of the Congregation , confifting of officers 
 'i'^'^y^^^^ and members ; our Anfwer (hould be Affirmative, aild according 
 hereunto is alio our praftife, and wee hope your judgement and ours are not 
 different herein : But feeing the Qneftion is. Whether it is jo in the body of the Qon^ 
 gregatlon, that what, the Major fart doth a/hn> that muf^ be done , thop.gh the Paflors 
 and Governor s^^nd the refi of the Affemhljydoe aiffent upon rnorefubftantiall reafons. 
 Our Anfwer is Nc|;ative, vi<,, thai the power of Excommunication is not fcaled 
 in the Congregation, neither ought it to be fo in any of the Churches of the 
 Lord Jefus, who ought not to carry matters by number of votes againft God^ 
 as this Pofition implyeth , but by ftfength of rule and reafon according to God. 
 The power of the Apoftles wasnot to doc things againft the truth but for the 
 truth, 2 Cor. 13.8 and not for dettrui!^ion , but for edification, 2 (^or, 10. 8, 
 And the fame may be faid concerning the power which God hath given to the 
 Church,and if any Cburch among us have fwerved from the rule(which is more 
 then we know ) we doe not allow them in fuch a praftifc, but (hould be ready as 
 the Lord Ihould helpc to convince them of their fin therein. 
 
 Reflj, 
 THis Qucftion is much miftaken, for the demand is not whether ia the Con- 
 gregation matters ihould be carryed by number of votes againfl God, as you 
 Interprit the Pofition, but whether the power of Excommunication fo iycin the 
 body of the Congrcgj tion as that Sentence mufl: proceed in externoforo , accord- 
 ing to the vote and determination of the Major part, and fo whether power of 
 
 admiflion 
 
The Reflj to the Anfwer of the fifth Toplon. yi 
 
 admitfion of members doc io r elide in the communitie, as that they muft be refu- 
 {cd whom the Major part refufcj though the Paftors and Governors and part of 
 the Congregation beof^mother judgement, and he admitted whom the Major 
 part doth approve. And though the Church hath received no power againft 
 Goda but For God, yet in the execution of the power no doubt the members of 
 tha^hurch may be of different judgements and affedions, wherein the one fide 
 or oTfier doth erre^and is deceived. Now the Quettion hereupon moved is, whe- 
 ther the power of the keyes be fo given and committed to the fociety of the faith- 
 full, as that in externall Court that aft or fentence muft ftand and be in force 
 which the greater part (hall determine amongft them which hold the power of 
 the keyes to be given to the Church. Some » diftinguifh ^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^ ^ 
 betwixt the power it felfw^*^ they give to the Church, park.hFolliii.e, i. 
 and the execution and exercife of it, which they con- ^.2), jipoL 17. ScH, exam* 
 fine to the Presbytery * ' Others give the power of the /^- * i ^ j »5 9j »4o» 
 keyes with tlie exercife thereof to the whole body of b Roh. againft Ber. pa. 181. 
 the Church, or if in the difpenfstion they attribute ^^y two or three arc meant 
 any thing to th. Officers, it is but as fcrvants of the t^^^i^^X^Z 
 Church, from whom they derive their authoritie. By without Officcrs.iJo&. again ft 
 ChnrchzKo fomc underftand the communitie of the Ber. Certaine obfervations, 
 faithfull, together with their officers and guides. And p- 4 Onely he that is of the 
 here lyeth theftone at which they of the Scperation true vifible Chmch and fur- 
 ftumble, and which we conceive to be your judgement ^^^ .^e iVes'ofEinf 
 and praalle, whcrem we required your plame anfwer, (jome for ihe Ccnfurc can a3. 
 with your rcafons, but have received no fatisfa^ion. moniOihis brother inorde^^ 
 Youreferreus to M'. Tarkers reafons to prove the ^"^ thofe degrees which the 
 power of the keyes to belong to the whole Church, Tl/f "^''-^hT'w^i* 
 who are of farre different judgement from M^. "Parker to'i-ccciv^in/o'to cu^ola^ 
 in the point it felfe. And if your judgement and pra- member is given to the whofc 
 ^ifc be according to that of the Sepcration (which we body together of every Chri- 
 feare ) youdiffent from him, and we cannot but dif- ^^^^ Congregation, and not 
 fcntfromyouuponthefeconfideutions. - 7J- Z^^.t^:. 
 
 ftred from the whole, ufingthc mecteft number for pronouncing the Ccnfmcs, id.pa, f 24 . i26« 
 
 I . No power agreeth to the multitude or communitie of the faithfull,but that 
 which is given them oftheLord by his pofitive Law • For the whole fpimuall 
 power for the gathering and government of his Church is given to Chrift as Me- 
 diator. And ifthepowerofthekeyesbederived from, i.^^e brethrenhave libertfe 
 and communicated by Chnft unto his Church , of ne- in the ordinance of Prophe- 
 celTitie it muft draw itsoriginall from divine pofitive fymg, they have alfolibertie 
 I,aw, and can agree to none but as it is communicated. ^" '^^^ other ordinr»nce ofEx- 
 But the communicated power of the keyes with the ^^"^^^"nication, for they arc 
 
 •L ^ execution 
 
72 The Reply to the Anfwer of the fifth Pofition, 
 
 both of the fame nature 5 execution thereof, Chrift hath not given immediately 
 Looke to whom Chrift gave ^^ ^\^q whole raiiUitude, but to fome perfons and Offi- 
 lothTmheye^tThtt; cersdeligned and appointed thereunto. Perufethefe- 
 of Difcii^hnc , Rob. againft vcrall paffigcs ot Scripture,wherein power and antho- 
 2er». pa^ * ^ 8, i^ 9. ritie of preaching the Gofpcl, adminiftring the Sacra- 
 
 ments, binding and loofing is given to the Church : and it is apparent tHl^di- 
 ftinft (cverali perlons are fpoken of, and not 'he whole communitie ; Goe teach 
 Mac.iS.i 9 i8. ^11 Nations, and haptiz^e them, &c, fVhofefinnesjee remit, they are re^ 
 Joh.2o.ar,ii. iwiVr^^, &c, Feednty Lambes^feedmj Jheepe, (f-c. Were thefe things 
 & 21. i 5, 1 6. fpoken to the whole communitie, or to fpeciall perfons ? 
 
 2. It Chrift gave this power to the communitie, was ic from the beginning of 
 the Churchj or tooke it efFe^: after the Churches were planted and eftablifhed by 
 the Apoftles. Not the fii it, for then the Apoftles themfelves (hould derive their 
 Gal. I. !♦ power from the coramunide and focietie ot the faitlifull , which 
 loh. zi. 12. they did not, butfromChrift immediately, both in refpeft of gifts 
 jrbitJepont,^nd graces, their calling it iclfe, and the delignation of their 
 ^. 8.C. i.j. perfons. 
 
 It is faid the power of the keyes given to the Apoftles was given CO the Church, 
 ^ In tuitu ejufdem tanquam finis & totm. And it is true the Apoftles were given to 
 the Church, and the power they received was for the good of the whole ; but 
 this is not enough. That power may be faid to be received immediately by the 
 Church > as the firft receptacle of it, and fi cm it derived to others. But this power 
 inuft be in the communitie as the firit (ubjeft, from whom it commeth to the Of- 
 ^ficers. As the power of feeing is not onely given in tuitu hominU , as the end of it^ 
 and the totum to whom it agreeth, but is *in homtne as the firft fubjeft from which 
 P ^ it commeth to the eyes. The Apoftles and other Go- 
 
 \'r\m^'l!'\%,'^Aut]mv(i5 vernorswerc given of Chrift for the Church as for 
 ttSioruynpo dom ^uiJcm ec- their end, and all their anchor itie was given unto them 
 tlefia achnfio data efl , fed for the Church as for the whole : but the authoritie it 
 nonpro dono-<ib/oluto, utpe> f^jf^ ^^^g immediately derived from Chrift, and is not 
 ::iS';?/r„:r;/- \- ''-CJ>urch as the i„unediate ii.biea. nor derived 
 tioniU, lit Ttctoribm tpps trom the Church, but trom Chnrt the King of the 
 tom-murdcetw ad totiui^di- Church. The authoritic of Governors is given of 
 fationm^ Pa^k- d^ ^o^^^- Chrift for a gift to the Chinch, but not for a giftab- 
 iib, J. iup, 8* fblute , that it may rcCde in tiie power of the whole 
 
 Cliurch to whom it is given, but for a conditional! gift commimicated to the 
 Governors thcmfc'ves for the good of the whole, ft is one thing then toaskc for 
 I Cor. iz. 7. what end or u^e the keyes are given, another to uhom. To every on€ 
 1 Cor! ^ II. i? given the declaration of the Spirit for profit, i, e, for the good of 
 I Tim J. 15. the Church. But was this gift given to the communitie of the faith- 
 1 C01.4. 1. iull firft and immediately ? No ; By gift and poffeffion ii was given 
 Sq fjiiKa but for ufe and profit it was publick. After 
 
The %eflj to the Aafvi^er of the fifth Pofttidfi, 75 
 
 AftcrtHe Churches were eftablifhed it tookc not ^^td: ; for then it muft be 
 Ihewed where Chrift committed the power of God, firft to the Apoftks , and af- 
 t^ to the communitie of the faithful!. But that is no where to be found in holy 
 ^ripturc.Thc Miniftcrs and guides of the Church were immediate- Aa. 20. 2 8. 
 iy of Jefus Chrift/rom whom immediately they derive their pow- Eph. 4. 8. n. 
 er and authoritie,by whom they are fet over their chargc,in whofe » Co.i 2.28,29 
 Name they muft execute their office, whofe Stewards, Legates and xh /.'r!'^''" 
 Ambafladors they are, and unto whom they muft give an account. 
 Yea, Paftorftiip is the gift of Chrift no lelTe then Apoftlelhip, and that the more 
 becaufcitisperpetuallinthcChurch ; every Paftor is not immediately called, 
 but the Office and order of Paftors,the calling,authoritie and jurifdiaion is inn 
 mediately from Chcift, and not from the Church: Sucajforhabet jurifdimon'i 
 The Steward is appointed of the Matter of the family ab eo d quopr^edecejfcr, alio- 
 alone , and hath all his authoritie and jurifdidion ^"i non ver^ facedit. But 
 from him: Every AmbafTadorinthecaufeofhis am- ^£°;^^'"'^J'^^^^^^^ 
 baffagedoth immediately depend upon him from jP^n.'depontla,^ ^^j/^ 
 whom he IS fcnt. But if the function, order and autho- 
 ritie of Paftors and Teachers, be immediately from Chrift, then it is not re- 
 ceived from the Church as the immediate receptacle. Thus Protefiant Divines 
 difputeagainftPapifts. IfBifhops receive their power p^, naorrd, 2. de potefk 
 and authority ofcxcrcifing immediately from Chrift, EuUfye q. 2. Alphonf, de 
 by mandate, miflion, and commiffion from him, then Cafir. /i, 2. e. 24. de inpa^ 
 they derive it not from the Pope. And if Presbyters hmtWhit.depont.q.^xA^ 
 receive their order jurifdi<^ion and power of execution from Chrift by his 
 mandate and Commiffion, then they receive it not from the Bifhop. And by the 
 fame reafon, if the power of the keyes be the immediate gift of Chrift to his Mi- 
 nifters, then they derive not their power and authoritie from the people. It is 
 ufualjy objeiSed that the Church cannot convey what (he never had, but the peo- 
 ple may Ettd their Paftor. Wkereunto the anfwer is dire£t and plaine. Nothing 
 can give that which it had not formally or virtually, unlefle it give it as an in- 
 ftrumcntminiftringtooncwhohath it, butfoit may give what it never had, 
 nor is capable of. A Steward may give all the offices in his Mafters houfe, as mi- 
 nifterially executing his Mafters pleafure. Eletiors have not evermore authori- 
 tie over him whom they ele£t : but power and authoritie onely to apply that 
 power to him whom they choofe. The power and authoritie whereunto a Mini- 
 fter is elected, is not In the people that cle6t him, but from Chrift the King and 
 head of hife Church, who out of power doth confcrre that office upon him. If we 
 confider what men give, or give not univcrfally, it muft be deemed that any men 
 can make Minifter8,becaufe they give not the office,gifts, or autho* Qhm, panftu 
 ritie, which are from Chrift alone, tom^z. lib, 1 1 . 
 
 3 . It Ecclcfiafticall and fpirituall power be in the multitude and ** ^ ^' f^^^- ^ * * 
 
 L-3 ccmjDau- 
 
74 The Re^lj to the Anfwer of the fifth Pofttion: 
 
 community of the faithfull, the Chuich doth not onely call, but make Officers 
 out of power and vcrtue received into her Idfe, and then fhould the Church have 
 a true lordlikc power in regard of her Miniitci s. 
 
 In the Church the Officers are the Minifters of the people, whofe feryict tht people is to ufe 
 foraciminii^rationantl cxecutingthcir judgements, that is, pronouncing the judgement of the 
 Church f and of God firft) agamit the obAinate. Kob, ag?inft '£gr,p, 1 1 6, 1'he Officers in the 
 Church arc both Chrills and the peoples Servants and Minifters Id. p. '^5. 
 
 For as he that will derive authority to the Church makcth himfclfeLord of 
 the Church : fo if the Church derive authoritie to the Minifters of Chrift, (be 
 Biaketh herfelf Lady and Miftrisover them in the exercife of that authoritie over 
 them. For all men know it is the property of the Lord and Mafter to impart au- 
 thoritie. Did the Church give power and authoritie to the Paftors and Teiich- 
 crSjfhe might make the Sacraments and preaching which one doth in order no 
 Sacraments, no preaching. For it is the order inftituted of God that gives be- 
 ing and efficacie to thefe ordinances. And if the power of ruling, feeding , and 
 difpenfing the holy things of God, do refide in the faithful], the Word and Sa- 
 craments in refpei^ of difpenfation and efficacie (hall depend upon the order and 
 inftitution of the Societie. If the power of the keyes be derived from the com- 
 munity ofthe faithfull, then are Officers immediately and formally fervants to 
 the Church, and muft do every thing in the name of the Church , Rule, feed, 
 bind, loofcg remit and retaine finnes, preach and adminifter the Sacraments, then 
 they muft performe their Office according to the direftion of the Church mpre 
 
 . r> I r * or lefle, feldome or frequent, remifle or diligent. For from 
 
 Arties Bel' inerv. torn, . ^ , • j- ci' 1 ° • 
 
 z.t.^.c. i.Mmijfri Ec- whom are they to receive direttion how to carry thcm- 
 ilefutftici fmt Ecclefit felves in their Office but from him or them from whom 
 tanquam objeili c'tYC(t they receive their Office, whofe works they do, and from 
 ^uoi verfavriir mm- ^.^om they cxpeft their reward ? If their power and of- 
 £i;:U?:;f .^."^ ^^ te of God immediately , they muft do the duties of their 
 er 'Domint a quo pa- pl^ce according to hi6 dclignement, and to be accountable 
 iUnnrnmftrijednullo unto God: But if their power and funftion be from the 
 mo^9 ipifii'poruw. Churchj the Church muft give account unto God^and the 
 
 Officers unto the Church whom (lie doth take to be her helpers. 
 
 If it be faid that God will have the Church to chufe Officers to execute the 
 power committed unto her. The anfwer is, either God will have her elefi: offi- 
 cers of his defi^nement to do his work according to that power which he fliall 
 give thcnij and by his direction, and then they are Gods fervant?, and nottlie 
 Churches, and receive thdr charge and funftion immediately from God , and 
 not from the people : or he leavcth it to the arbitrimentof the Church, to chufe 
 according to their pleafure fuch as muft receive charge and authoritie from her. 
 And then they muit execute their office in her nari-e io as (hall ieeme good unto 
 the Church , and neither longer nor otherwife. For if the Minifters cf the 
 
 Church 
 
The Re fly to the Anfrver of the fifth Pofnioff, 75 
 
 Cbiifch beftrbjeft to God and Chrift by the intervention of the people onely, 
 they have it from them, and not from God : but they preach or adminifter the 
 Sacraments, rulej or feed, and if they depend immediately upon the faithfuU, 
 vix.. two or three gathered together in covenant, they muft draw what in order 
 they are to preach unto them in the name of the Lord-, For ^^^-^ hiatus ineau^ 
 from him muft the Ambafladour learne his arrand from sd hgationis fiu im^ 
 whom he rcceiveth his CommilTfon. We forbeare t^ prcfle mediate pendet ab eo 
 the* confeffions and reafons of luch as maintaine this opi- M^o mittitur.c^ iru 
 «k,n, that the officers of Chort be both of and for the peo- ^,rir.rt;u% 
 pie, and that in relation ^i the officers art called fer^ants, indeUbili, 
 the Church may be called Lord. a We denie the order 
 
 of Elciei-stobefuperiourtotheorderorSaimSjfincc it isnot an order of mifte-rfhip but of 
 feVvUe. ^^b.agamftBer«.;>a.ioi. Ttwerc afengethingthat mencotrldh^ve no coi^i^and 
 •ver thek fcrvants, as I have of e fliewc^ fhe Gluu-ch-of&ceis to be hef f«rv*nts. fd /. 2 1 4 . Tk«t 
 order of fervants IS inferiour to the order of them whofcTervants they are ; but the ©rdei- oi 
 OT-utch-o^eisisan order of fervants,and they by office to fcrvethe peopk,r^.^.2i $.217. 
 
 - 4. Moreover if the poWdr of the keye^be given firft and immediately to the 
 cjomtfiunity of the faitfcfull, what reafOn can be alledg^d why in defeat of Offi- 
 cers tht Church rtiight not rlile,governe3fe6d,bindj loofe, preach and admini- 
 ft(ei'tl^Sacramettts,orifartyfaiIe in any office, why the might not fupply that 
 want by her power. For the power of the keyes doth containe, both authority 
 aftdexercife,poi<rer being given to this' elfld, that it might be eXercifed as it is 
 vouthfafed. But the Church when tt^ is deftitUte of Officers^ cannot excrciie 
 thoft a6^s of rulcj nor by her power fupply the want of any Officer. Onely {he 
 hatha miniftery of calling one whom Chrift hath defcribedj that from Chrifl he 
 rnay have power of office given hiitl in the vacant place. For the(c reafbns (not 
 troinfiftdnany more) we judge (he multitude or community of the faithfull not 
 to be the f remediate receptacle of Ecclcfiafticall aufhoritie, and fo the power of 
 e^commufiication not to belong to them. Ifconfent of the Churches of God 
 be asked in this point (to omit others) the Churches of Scotland i^tdkt fully 
 and expfefly for us, in the fecond book ot 'Dlfci, cap, i , The Church as it u taken 
 for them that exercife fplrUuall frn^lons in the coyigregation of them that profeffe the 
 trAth, hath a certain port>er grame<i hy (J od according to rohich, it ufeth a proper ^lurif^- 
 dinion and government exereifedt(/ fhe CO jnfort efthe whole flocke, Vorwer is an £c^ 
 eieftafiicali anthority granted by Goa the Father through the Mediator Jefpu Chrifi 
 limo his iCirke, gathered, and having its ground in the \^ord of Godyand to he put in 
 e^cution by them unfo rvhom the Jpirltualt government of the ^hurch by lawfullcal'- 
 ling is committed. The pollcie of the ICirke flowingfrom this power is an ord^r or fil-. 
 riftuaU forme of government vehich (4 exercipdbj the members appointed thereto hy 
 the Word of god, and therefore is given immedUtely to the office- hearers by yvhcm 
 it isexerctfed to the r^eale of the whole hdy ,. * 
 
yb The Reply to the Arjfmr cfthejixth T oft t tofts, 
 
 Vtumvcrfam fcrtpttiram evolvdt 7). Erdilus^aunquam tamen invtnturum vtrhi Li^an^i^ 
 i£t Solvcndialiisquani publico mhn^eriofutigentibutiO' q'ddemmctaphork^,divitiie videlicet 
 ts* fpiritualis potefiatis rcfpectu^tribui. Sunt cnimjudioialiah^c verba. O'c. 'Bex^t dc Prcsh^ 
 p 60, See Helvet. conf, ca. iS.Sect. Nunc ergo* (^c, Zelgic, confejf. art,}. Argentincnfconf. 
 art, 1 3 . 2okw. confef, art. 1 4. 
 
 VI. Position. 
 That n$nedre to be admitted as members but they mtiftpromifemt to dtp Art 
 or remove unlejfe the Congregation tpillgive lave. 
 
 Anftver, 
 
 OUr Anfwcr hereto is briefly this. We judge it expedient and moft accord- 
 ing to rule, that flich brethren as arc in covenant with the Church , and 
 ours as fellow- members, and have committed their foules to our charge as Mi- 
 nlftcrs, ftiould not forfake our fellowftiip, nor obruptly breake away from us 
 when and whither they plea(e ; but firft approve themfelves therein to thdr bre- 
 thrensconfciences, and take their counfell in fo weightie a matter. For which 
 we propound to confider thcfc two reafons following. The former is drawne 
 from the nature of the Church- Covenant, which confifts in the(c fourc parti- 
 culars. 
 
 I , Every member at his admiffion doth openly profcfle, and folcmnly pro-i 
 mife, that by Chrifts heipe aflifting, he will not onely in gencrall give up him- 
 felfe (as to the Lord to be guided by him, fo J to the Church according to God 
 to be directed by it, which is no more then the members of the Church of C%- 
 r^-^^;?/^, did in a parallel cafe, 2 Cor, 8. 5, but alfo in particular, that he will 
 performe all duties of brotherly love and faithfulncfle to all the members of the 
 body, as of diligent watchfulneffe over all hie brethren, thereby to prevent fin, 
 io offaithfull admonition afcer their falls to regaine them to the Lord, from 
 their finne, the former being injoyned, Behr, 3.13. And the want thereof deep- 
 ly condemned in Cain^ that would not acknowledge that duty of being his bro- 
 thers keeper, ge», 4. 9. the latter given in charge to the Church- members of 
 Ifrael by the hand of CMofes, Levit, 19. 17. and fo by Chrift himfclf, CM^tth, 
 I'S 1 5 . And by Paul alfo to the Galat* c. 6,1,7., 
 
 Secondly, the ingagements are not made onely by the members admitted in- 
 to the Church, but by the Church back again to the member. So that thereby 
 the whole Church in generally and every member thereof in particular, (land at 
 well in conicience bound to performe all duties of love and watchfulncflc to 
 him, as he doth to them ; And this wc do according to the golden rule of love 
 andequitic injoyned by our Saviour, A^atth,y,J2,£esLrinf^ that contrary pra- 
 ftife of Scribes and Pharifeesfo much condemned by Chrift, of laying greater 
 
 burthens 
 
The Anfwer of the ftxth ^oJttioH, €^ 
 
 burthens upon others, then we our felvcs arc willing to undergo. A/atth. 15.4. 
 
 2 The(e promifes thus lawfully and mutually madejthat metnbcrjas alfo the 
 whole Church, are bound not oncly every one for himfelfe, aftively to per- 
 forme them> but paiTively alfo to fufFer his brethren to do thofe offices upon ^nd 
 towards himfelf : If he negled the formcr^he (hall falfifie his covenant fo folemn- 
 ly before Gcd, Angels, and men made, and (o not onely breake promife to" 
 his bi other, contra ly to Tfai. 15.4. but alfo In fome fort commit the finne of 
 jtnamas^ndSaphirain lying againft the holy Ghcft, condemnedand punifiied 
 fcverely by Gods own hand^ AB, 5 . 5 . 5 . 1 o. If he faiJe in the }atter,he (hall not 
 onely be gniltie of the fame (inne of breach of Covenant with God and man as 
 in the former •, but (hall alfo be guilty of this folly of defpifing counfcll fo much 
 condemned, Trev, 12.15. and i . 7. and (hall alfo prochime this his folly and 
 pride by (hewing to allthc Church that he is wife in his own eyes, and leanest© 
 his own wifedomc both reproved, T'r^t^. 3.7.and 23. 4. Seeing need of no fur- 
 ther light to be held forth by his brethren, then what he apprehends himfelfe, 
 which is one of the greateft properties of folly. 
 
 4, From all thele things premifed, it appears that we can do no lefle (and yet 
 we do no more) then require a member before he depart according to our co- 
 venant thus lawfully, deliberately a and mutually made, to exprefleto his bre- 
 thren his defire of departing, and the place and (bcietie to which he tends, whe- 
 ther to a godly Church where he may be edified; or to fome corrupt Aflembly" 
 where he may be dcllroyed. And 2 . his grounds and realbns which move him fo 
 to do, which if they hold good being fcanned by the Word, he may be not one- 
 ly confirmed in his way by the confent and advife of many, but counfelled alfo 
 how to manage his departure for his beft comfort. And (b after all, (blemnly 
 witlj the whole Churches prayers, and bleflings in the name of Chriit diTmiffed: 
 But if his grounds cither be none at all, or weake and finfulLand that his defire of 
 departing favours of felf- will, inordinate love of gaine, ra(h precipitancie, or a 
 fpirit of fchifmej more ftrongly then of found reafon, then what can we do lefle 
 without breach of Covenant, then in love and tenderncfle fhew him his weak- 
 nelTe, difTwade him from his purpofe, and refufe to confent. Yet if after all this 
 we fee his fpirit(^edfa(My and (tiffely bent for a departure, then though we dare 
 not a^: againft our light by confenting or counfelling, yet if his finne be not ap- 
 parent, and danger eminentj we ufe rather ('through indulgence in cafes of ilfte 
 nature) to fufpend our vote againfl him, as not willing againfl his will to detain 
 himi abhorring to make our Churches places of re&aint and imprifbnment. 
 But if any Ihould objeft that this argument holds firme where this Church-Co- 
 vcnant is allowed to be lawfull, but with forac it is queftioncd, and with them ic 
 avails not. tXtif. Some indeed have queftioned the necc(ntie of our Church- 
 Covenant, but none (we hopej of thefe our reverend brethren that we write un- * 
 to do queftionthe lawfulnefle of fuch a Covenant being nothing elfc for the 
 
 M matter 
 
^8 The Ref!) to the Anfwer oftheftxth Foftloit, 
 
 matter ofitjbttt a promlfeofdoingfuch Chi itHan dudes as the Gorpel of Chrift 
 requires of all Saints in Church- eltate ; for we due not herein promise to per- 
 forme any new dutre to our brethren which was noi before commanded us of 
 the Lordj but oncly revive and renew our pnrp( .fcs atrtfti of performing fuch 
 duties unto that particular body into which we aie then incorporated as were 
 before injoyned in the Word, as to love each other, and to watch over each o- 
 ther out of love for their good, to be ready to g've counfell to,and to take coun- 
 Heb. I J. I, fell from each other,to prev<^nt finne in them, or to gaine them from 
 Pro. 11. 19. finne. All which are plemiujlly and frequently held forth in the 
 ^^ 7 2.?- Scriptures-, for the deftft of which care and watchfulneflc , all the 
 LevitVo'^ir ^O'^^y^^^i^'^ wrapt in the fame guilt Scpuniftiment with the mem- 
 Mat. 18. ly.' ber th-it commits the finne, as the whole Chwrch of Jfrael was in 
 Gal 6. 1 4 Achms finne and punifhmcnt. 
 
 Secondly, Its a thing very reaibnablejand a knowne fundamental! rule in all 
 (bcietieSj that he that is incorporate thereto, and fo participates of the privilcd- 
 ges thereof, fhould ingage himfelfe to conforme to all fuch lawfull rites and or- 
 ders as are expedient for the well- being of that focietie, the contrary whereto 
 will be a thing injurious in him to offer, and confuik)n to themfelvcs to accept. 
 
 The fecond ground is draivne from the ncceffitie that may fall upon the body 
 if every particular member flioald depart at his owne pleafure. For as every fo- 
 ^ictie, fo piuch more a Church of Saints, both from principles of nature and 
 Chrifti^initiealfo, not onejy lawfully mayjbut in dutie are bound to endeavour 
 the prefervation of it felfc, and 5r^<? timely to forcfee and wifely to prevent all 
 fuch things as would bring deifrui5ion to it felfe. Now if any member might, 
 when, whither, and wherefore he pleafe without con(ent of the Church depart 
 a.way from it, this may by unavoydable confcquence diflipate the whole ; for if 
 onemanmayfo depart, why may not another alio, though never fo ufefull in 
 that body, andwhafcvabfencermight much (hake the well-beiftg ofit : and if one 
 wliy net two, fix, tcn_, twentie as welJT For whei e will yec iiop feeing any may 
 plead the (Imic libcrtic, ai^d if members, may To doe why not thePaftor and 
 Teacher airo?Seeing they are tyed to him by the fame relation that he is to them, 
 and fothc principalis falling, the whole building mulfdowne: and if this may 
 be fo in one Chiu'chj why not in all,apd fo Cbrilf fhould have no fctled Church 
 on«arth, 
 
 ITisonethiqg abruptly to brcake away when and whither they pleafe, and 
 foifake fellow- (hip, another thing not to depart or remove habitation, unlefle 
 the Congregation will give leave. Alfo it is one thing mutually to compound 
 and agree not to depart from each othcf; without confeiit and approbation, 
 another to require a promifc of ajJ chat be admitted into focietie,that they (hall 
 ngt depart without tte Churches aUo.waoc^, If fuch a promifc be required of 
 
 all 
 
. The Reply to the Anftver of phe ftxth Pofttiott, jp 
 
 all members tc be admitted, we cannot diiccrne upon what grounds your pra- 
 ftife is warranted. Pirrt, you exclude all fuchas be not {ci members trom the Sa- 
 crament of the Supper, and th dr children from Bapciime, and yet hinder them 
 from entrance into Church rocietic, bccauie they cannot pfomi'e continuance 
 in the place where they are reiident for the prelcnt Here we defire to be (atif^ 
 ^td from the word of God by what you require it. Did the Apotiles ever ftipu- 
 late wich fucli as dcfired to be baptized, that they n^uit abide in parucular focic- 
 tif, and noi remove thenfe without approbation trom the Church > ordid they 
 deny the fjales unto them 9 bccaufe they could not make any fuch promife^ 
 Was it ever heard of in the Church of God from the beginning thereof unco this 
 day, that any fuch thing wa« propounded unto, or required of, members to be 
 admitted iuto Church-ftllowftiip ? That Church Covenant which Is ncctflary 
 was not in u(e In the Apofties times, but the Covenant they entred iuio bound 
 no man to this condition tor ought we rcade. They did not prcicribe iiy no 
 Church ever yet covenanted it as neceffary to the prefcrvaticn of the body. 
 
 Secondly, It pertainea not to the whole Congregation to take notice of , be 
 acquainted with, or judge of the cauf; of every particular members removal]. 
 May not a fervant remove from his Mitter to another Congregation ? or {fee fa- 
 ther beftow his fonnc or daughter in R:sarriage to one ot another Congregation, 
 but the whole Church mmt be called to couniell in this mane. > If the Allemuly 
 once grow to be populous j of neccflide ihcy crxxik be negligent in , or weary of 
 iuch an heavy task^ 5 and for the prefentjtar every one to challenge fo-much au- 
 t-horitje over other is ulurpation. Let it be (hewe i that ever by divine right this 
 power was committed to the Church, and trie wc will confeft it to be expedi- 
 ent and nccedary. But til i then we thinke the Church is over ridged in exacting 
 fuch a condition of the members, and the members thera(elvcs goe beyond theic 
 meafure as bufi-bodies in other mens matters, and tilings v hereof they are not 
 well able to judge many times, if they arrog.ite 'uch^uweruntothenjfejves wee 
 allow not rafhnefle, or precipitancy, pride or felr-conceuednefle , we know it is 
 meete that weightie matters (houid be manna ged by Councell , but it is not new* 
 ccfTary to bringevery particular thing to the whole Church. In the mulhudc 
 of Conncetlors there i^peace^ but over many Counceliors oft caufeth diftradion, 
 and different apprehcnfions breed delayes. The nature of your Church-Cove- 
 nant, as you defcribe it, inferrcth not a neceflitie of bringing every fuch buiineflc 
 unto the Church; for you binde your fclves mutually to watch over one ano- 
 ther, and in love toad monifli one another in the Lord j to prevent finnc and to 
 encourage in well-doing, as it concerneth every man within the limits of his 
 place and calling. But this cflentially tyech not any man to a perpetuall refi- 
 dence in one place, for then even occafionall abfenre (hould be a breach ot Cove- 
 nant, unlefle it be by content and approbation ot the Church. 
 You fay in your Covenant you promiie to perform^ no new dutie to your 
 
 M 2 bretbre:^^ 
 
7 2 The Reply to the Anf^er of the f^xth Toft ton, ^ 
 
 brethren which was not before commanded of the Lord,but onely revive and re- 
 new your purpofes afrefh of performing (uch duties to th^t particular body in- 
 to which you arc th'cn to be incorporated, as were before injoy ned in the Word 
 But in the word of truth, it is not commanded either expi efly or by confcquent] 
 that no member of a Congregation (hould remove , or occalionally be ab(cnt 
 from the place of his habitation, before he have acquainted the Church whither 
 he gocth, and upon what occafions, a!id whether the place be dangerous, where 
 he is likely to be infefted;or (afe, where he may be edified. Thefc things are 
 matters of weight and to be undertaken with advice^ but the knowledge thereof 
 bclongeth not to every particular member of the focietie. And the Church fhail 
 burden her felfe above meafurc if (he take upon her to intermeddle in all fuch oc- 
 cafions. Neither is it fafe to commit the determination of fuch matters ever to 
 the vote of the multitude, or weight of reafons, as they (hall apprehend the mat- 
 ter. And if(uchbufine(remurt be determined on the Lords day, and to goe be- 
 fore the adminiftration of the Word, Sacraments, and almes, leaft 
 pa Jfo^^^^' the holy things be polluted by notorious obitinate offenders, wee 
 ^ ' feare the time appointed for the exercifc of Religion (hall be pro- 
 
 phancdwith unfeafbnabledifputes. Inftances might be alledged, if it were a 
 matter to be infilled upon. 
 
 As for the Covenant it felfe which you mutually enter into, if therein you ex- 
 aft nothing but what God requires both fortryall and (hpu'ation, far be it that 
 we (hould difallow it , but if^yee conftraine men to meddle with things that be- 
 long not to them, and winde them up higher then God would, and ftraine every 
 thing to the pitch that you feeme here to doe in this branch a godly and fober 
 minde may well paufe before he make fuch promi/e. All members of the Church 
 are not equally necefTaiy lo theprefervatioof theuhole body^Sc if to the remo- 
 vall of fomcjit were expedient to have the cofent.not only ot the whole focicty, 
 but of neighbouring focicties^ Minilters efpcciaJIy , it is very much to draw this 
 to theremovall or abode of every particular member* And if any man ihall not 
 intermeddle with every bufineffe of this kinde , as queftioning whether it doth 
 belong to him or no, or not aske the advice of the whole (bcietie, as knowing 
 the molt to be unfit to counfell in fuch a cafe, doth he break his Covenant there- 
 in, -and fo commit a finne in a fort like the finne oi Anamas and Saphira ? Judge 
 your felves if in other cafes ycoj would not ccnfure this to be an high incroach- 
 ment upon Chriftian libertie, and a ftn<^ binding of mens confciences by hii- 
 mane conftitutions. May you not expeft to hearc from your own grounds that 
 herein you have devifed an expedient, or ncceflary rite or cuftome to preferve 
 the unitie, and prevent the difToIution of the body , which never came into the 
 minde of the Lord Jcfus, the Saviour of the Church, T^nd that in fo doing (li 
 your expofition will hold good ) you breake the fccoiid Commandement. 
 Kitci and cuftomcs expedient to prevent confulion for the time, let them be ob- 
 
 fcrvcd 
 
The Re fly to the Anffver ofthefixth Tofttlon, 7 j 
 
 ferved as ciiftomes expedient, and what God requires in the examination or ;?d- 
 miffion ofmembers, let that take place according to the prcfidents given in the 
 Scriptures,and thcconftant praftifeof the univeriall Churchin the pureft times. 
 But to prefle cuftomcs onely expedient for the time, as (landing rules ncceflary 
 atall times, and for allpcrfons, to put that authoritie into the hands of men 
 which God never put upon them^to oblige men to intermeddle further in the af- 
 faires ofmen, then the Word dofh warrant, to bindetheconfcience, and that 
 under fo heavy a penalty as the finne of Ananias and Saphira, where God hath 
 not bound it, and to debarre known and approved Chritfians from the Seajes of 
 the Covenant, bccaufe they cannot promife as fetled members to abide and ftay 
 in thefocietie, unleflethey (hall obtainc leave of the Congregation to depart, 
 and CO charge them in the meane feafon to be men, who againtl light refufc (ub- 
 jeftion to the Gofpel ; this is that which we cannot approve, which yet wee fuf- 
 ped will follow from your judgement, and defire to be refolved of in your pra- 
 ftife. And here wc intreat leave to put you in^ minde of that which you have 
 confidercd already,/?/;*/. That the Church and every member thereof hath en- 
 tred into Covenant, either exprefly or implicitely to take God for their God, 
 and to kcepc the words of the Covenant and doe them, to feeke the Exoel. 24. 57. 
 Lord with all their hearts 3 and towalkc before him in truth and Deut.2. 14. 
 uprightnede : but we never finde that they were called to give ac- ^ 4. ?. 4» 
 count oftheworkc of grate wrought in their foules, or that the ^^* ^* 
 whole Congregation were appointed to bejudgc ihzxtoi. Toftftand Ezek.i^, 6. 8* 
 allofjQit this day {{mhMofes) before the Lord your God y &c. that Nu. 13.48. 50. 
 thou Jhouldfi enter into (Covenant vpith the Lord thy God, All thcpeo- ^^^^* ^^' *^* 
 pie that were borne in the Wildernefle fojhm circumclfed, but it is ' * 
 
 incredible to thinke that among that great multitudcjthere was not one who did 
 . not give good teftimony of the worke of grace in his foule; We reade often times 
 - that Ifrael after forae grievous fall and revolt, renewed their Cove- j^^]^ 44.1,14. 
 nant, to walke with God, to ferve him onely, and to obey his 2^,24, 2^. * 
 woycc, ^s in the day e^ of fojhua, the fudges, "David, Samuel: Alfb I"dg,2.5«ii.. 
 Joafhy fofiah, and Nehem/ah, &c. But no particular enquiry was ^ ^'^' '^• 
 made, what worke of grace God had wrought in the hearts sc iJio-i 
 of every Angular perfbn. But the confeffion and profeifion of obe- % Chr.i 5.1 1 
 dience was taken. When fohn^aptifi began to pxeach the Gofpel, » Kin.i 1.17, 
 and gather a new people For Chrili, he admitted none to Baptifmc ^ *?• 3* 
 but upon confeffion of their finnes*, but we reade of no queftion that ^Chr.j4.3 1. 
 he put forth unto them to difcover the worke of grace in their ^ '^^^9*1^ 
 foules, or repelltd any that voluntarily fubmitted thtmielves upon that pre- 
 tence. It appeareih many wayes that when the Apoftles planted 4 a. 2. 38. 
 Churches, they made a Covenant between God and the people & ^*$78c 19. 
 whom th ty received. But they received men upon the profeffion of ^ 7* « 8,i 9,., 
 
 M 3 fjuth. 
 
S2 The Re^ly to the Anfwer ofthefeventh Tofttlon] 
 
 faith, and proaiife of amendment of life , without ftrift inquirie v&hat founi 
 woikof g'^acc was wrcuj^^t in the foul. In after ages, ftrangers from the cove- 
 nant were firlt inttni6lecl iiuhc faith^and then bapti(cd upon the profcfllon of 
 faith, and pi oniife to walk acco ding to the covenant of grace. Now the pro* 
 feflion at firft required of all that were received to baptifnie, was that 
 
 • * ^ ^* they beleeved in the Father, Sonne, and holy Ghoft. This was the 
 confeffion of the Etuvjch when he wasbaptifed, / beleeve that ^eCtu Ch.lfi is the 
 Some of God, The Creed is honoured of the ancients with glorious tides , as the 
 rule of faith, the fumme of faith, the body of faith, the per(wafions of faith: 
 but by the Creed they underftand that rule of faith, and law of faith, and infti- 
 tution of Chrifl which was then given when he was about to afcend into heaven, 
 and commanded his difciples, faying^ Go teach allNations^ &c. It is true, thatin 
 after tiniesasoccafion required fome other Articles were added as explanations 
 of the former, to meet with the herefies of the times which began to trouble che 
 Church. But for fubftance of matter in things to be beleeved, the Church never 
 required other acknowledgement of them that were to be received into the con- 
 gregation of Chriils fjock, and admitted into her communion. And tor things 
 to be done, or the pra£ticall part, fhe requireth of them that were to be received 
 to baptifme an abrenuntiation of the devill, the world, and the flefti, with all 
 their finfull works and lufts» 
 
 The firft principles then of thcdo8:rine of Chfrift being received^nd thefore- 
 faid pi ofeffion being made, the Apoftles, and the Church following the example 
 of the Apoftles, never denied baptifme unto fiich as (ought or deired it. If this 
 be the Covenant that members admitted into Church-fellowflbip do enter into, 
 and this be all you require of them whom you receive 5 you have the praftife of 
 •the Apoftles, and the whole Church in after ages for your prefident. But if you 
 proceed further then thus, and put men to declare what worke of grace God 
 haih wrought in their foul, in this or that way, which perhaps is not dctermi- 
 neclby the word of grace, at Icalt not agreed upon among your felves,we befeech 
 70U conlider by what authority you do it, and upon what grounds you Itand. 
 But we will enter no further upon this matter, becauic it comes not within the 
 corapafleofthefePofitions, and to attribute fo much to private letters , as to 
 make them the ground of another difputc we may not, 
 
 VII. Position. 
 Th^tA Mrrijlcr is fo a Minijier ofafarticular Congregation , that if they 
 dipkehimunifijllj, er leave hint) he ceafeth to be a Minifier. 
 
 Anfwer, 
 
 OUr Ar»f vver to this confifts in two branches, i . In cafe a Minifier be let a- 
 iidt by theChurchmecrlytlirough his own default. 2, By the Churches 
 
 default 
 
ThsT^cfljtotheAnfwcrofthefevsnthPoJitior'', S3 
 
 default without any defeit of his. In the former cafe i: Is evident he ceafeth to 
 be a M'nilkr to them any longer, as appears in foure conclufions. 
 
 1. It is clearefroni the Word^ that a Paftor or Teacher in thele dayes hath no 
 Apoftolicall power over all Churches, but onely limited to that one Church 
 where God hath fet him. 'Tanl gives not the Elders at Epheft^^ a generall Com- 
 niiifion to go teach all Churches, but to go feed that one flock over which the 
 holy Ghoft hath made them over- feers. €x^(^. 20.28 So P^f^rgiv^s diicdionto 
 Elderstofeed that flock of God onely which was among them i and take the 
 over-fight thereof, i Pet. 5 .2. 
 
 a. It is as cicare that all this powcrof feeding which the Minifter hath in that 
 Church is nextly derived to him from Chrift by the Church, who hath folemn- 
 ly called him to the work, and promifed to obey him therein : for if he have ic 
 ellcwherc, it muft be eitherfrom Chrift immediately, or from fome other men 
 deputed by Chrift to eonferre it on him, or he muft take it up of himfelfc. Not 
 the firft, for that was proper to the Apoftles or Apoftolicall men , therefore "Vaul 
 proving his Apoftlcftiip, faith he was cailed notofmen.mr by men^hm hy Jefm 
 (^hriflhmfelf Gal.i, I. Notthc ftcond, for we never read in Gods Word thar 
 any ordinary Officers, or other befidcs the Church , that had any Commiflion 
 given them from Chrift to call Miniftersunto Churches. Not the third, for no 
 man taketh this honour, viz, of a Prieft under the Law, or of a Minifter under 
 the Gofpel, but he that is called of God, Hffi;y, 5 . 4. Therefore it muft needs 6e 
 from Chrift by the Church. 
 
 3, As the Church in the name of Chrift gave this power to a Minifter to be 
 what he is, and do wliat he doth amongft them: when iuch a Minifter ftiafl make 
 and manifeft himfelf apparently, unworthy, and unfit to difcharge the place, 
 which they thus called him unto, fb that they may difcerne that Chrift the head- 
 of the Church hath renifed him, from being a Minifter unto him, they may then 
 upon as ^ood grounds depofe him from it, as they called him to it. 
 
 4. When a Church hath thus in Chrifts name put forth this power of (hut- 
 ting, as before it did of opening to a Miniiier, then he muft cedCe to be a Minifter 
 untothemany more, for we know no fuch indelible character imprinted upon 
 aMinifter,that theMiniftery cea(ing,the Minifter ceafeth alfo, 
 
 2. In cafe the Church (hail without caufe, or fufficlent weightie caufe, raihiy 
 or wilfully fet hira afide whom Chrift hath fet over them>, and whom they fo 
 folemnly called, and promifed before the Lord to fubmit unto ;, and Co abufe 
 their power given them by Chrift ; it is doubtlcfl^ a very great wrong unto the 
 Minifter, andfinne againft Chrift himfclfe before whom it was done; and not 
 onely Chrift himfelf will take it ill at their'hands,for iiich contempt done to 
 him in his Minifters according to Chrifts ipeech, Lffh 10,16. He that rejeB^'^ 
 yoHy rejiSiethme, And Gods fpeech, 1 Sam 8. 7 Thej have not cafi offth^*^^^ ^^» 
 But even other Churches alfo may adraonifc theiuv And if they f lOve obftinate 
 
 therein^ 
 
7^ 7'/7<? Re fly to the Anfwer of the fevemh Pofitlon,- 
 
 therein, withdraw the right hand of fellowQiip from them ; and concerningthc 
 Miniftcr himfelf thus depofed, feeing it Is done not by Chrift, but by the Church 
 without Chrift,Yc«iag'»i"ft the mind of ChriftjWe conceive though he be by 
 them deprived of the execution of his minilkry among them, yet untill he ac- 
 cepts of a call to another people, he doth yet ftill remain a Minifter of Chrift ia 
 whofe account (notwithftanding fuchdcpofition) he hath true right of admlni* 
 ftration among that people. y 
 
 / 
 Reply. 
 'J* He qacftionisof Minifters unjuftJy forfaken^or driven from the Church or 
 
 congregation: and your anfwer is for the moft part of Minifters kt afide or 
 deprived through their own default. We never purpoftd to fpeak one word for 
 any unworthy Minifter whom Chrift hath put cut of office, and therefore your 
 labour to prove that fuchjufily rejected by the Church are no longer Miniflcrs 
 might well have been faved.But fi tting them afide, we will in few words examine 
 your conclufions upon which you bind the certainty of that ientenccyou paffe 
 againft them. 
 
 Firft, it is certain and clear from the Word, that a Paftor or Teacher neither 
 in thefe dayes hath, nor !n any other age of the Church, ought to have Apoflo- 
 licall power over all Churches. The ApofWes had oncly power to fervc the 
 Church with the perfonall fervice of their Apoftlefhip. But paftorall power 
 of ordinarie Minifters or Teachers they never had : andif the Apoftles had not 
 the power of ordinarie Minifters, much leffe can Paftors receive the power of 
 Apoftles, for Chrift gave both the one and the other order. But as the Apoftles 
 were not Paftors of that Church to which they preached , and among whom 
 they continued for fome fpacc 5 no more do Paftors become Apoftles if they 
 preach the Word, or difpence the Sacraments to another flock or people bcfidc 
 their own, whereof they have the fpeciall ovcrfight. But of this matter wc have 
 fpoken before, and of the texts of Scripture here alledged, therefore we will not 
 repeat what hath been faid alreadie; onely it (eemeth fomewhat ftrangc, that you 
 fliould cite thofe texts of Scripture, as if the Apoftle had faid, feed one flock, or 
 feed that flock of God onely. For we find the word (one) or ( onely ) neither in 
 the text exprefly^nor in the fenfe for which it is here alledged, z//^. as if he might 
 not perform any minifteriall afl: in another Congregation upon any occafion 
 lyhatfoever. 
 
 Secondly, the power of feeding which the Minifter hath is neither confined 
 to one focietie onely, nor nextly derived to him from Chrift by the Church, 
 The office and awthoritie of a Paftor is immediately from Chrift. The deputa- 
 tion of the perfon which Chrift hath defigned is from the Church minifterially, 
 but liMfhcr virtually nor formally. The confent of the people is requifite in the 
 cleftion of Poftors and Teachers we grant, the diredion of the Elders going be- 
 
 fore . 
 
The Reply to the Artfwer of the feventh ^ofitioHl 77 
 
 fore or along with them 5 but the authoritie, cfBce, and gift of a . . 
 Paftor is not from the people or Elders, but from Chrift alone. ^^ /j.f?^^^^ 
 Whenan Apoftlewastobechofenin theplaceof yW^jfi^^f?. I, ^' \ * • * 
 22, 23. no one had the handling of that bufinefle, but Teter declared unto the 
 brethren prefent, what an one ought to be taken, and they prcfent two, where- 
 of one was elected by lot. In this cxannple fomerhhigs are extraordinarie, for 
 onconely was to be chofen, and that immediately by God himfeire : and fome- 
 thingsordinarieforour imitation. For if Peter would do nothing v/ithout 
 confent of the difcipleSj thenmay not ordinarie elections be paffed without con- 
 fent and approbation of the Church, but it is not a popular election, not govern- 
 ed by the torc-dire6^ion of Elders, which is concluded from this paffage of Scri- 
 pture : but a Church eleftion by the free confent;, and judgement of the faithfull 
 with the fore- leading of the Presbyterie. When Deacons were to be choktX^AEl^ 
 6, 1. 6, in the Church of Jerufalem^ it was done by the confent of the Church, 
 The mutinie of the Hellenifts againft the Hebrews occafioncd that eleftion , but 
 was-no cauie why it was made by free confent. The Apoftles fhew what perfons 
 muft bechofen, and who ever thought the Church was lelc at libertie tochufeas 
 (he pleale without dirc6tion. But in this eleftion the people did firil chufe , the 
 Apoflles onely directing whom the people ought to make choice of: when moft 
 commonly the Apoftles inftrufted the people, and went before them in the ele- 
 ftion, and they confented. <iAn. 1 4. 23. The Apoftles by confent chofe Elders, 
 and fb in every matter of great importance belonging direftly to the whole 
 bodieof the Church, whether fcverally in one congregation, or joyntly in ma- 
 ny, the confent of the faithfull by obfervation of the Apoftles was required. >^<^. 
 11.22. and 15. 2 2. and 16. 4. i (^or, 8. 19. But in the primitive times after the 
 Apoftles, one Church might cle^ and chufe a Paftor for another. As Ignatim 
 exhorts the Phyladelphians, that they would eleft aPaftcr for the Church of 
 Antioch. And fo when the Eaft Church wasinfe£led uiih Arrianifme, Bafil^ 
 epij}. ^9.70.. 74. thought it a fit meanes to remove the herefie^ if the Blihops of 
 Italie being fent thither did condemne the herefic,and he imiploreth ^ ,. 
 the aid of the Bifhops of Italy, France, and all the Eaft. Cynian ^ ^' ^' P 
 faith, all Bi(hops/^/-7r mutu^cencordU gltitme cofuUti : that if any hold hcrefie 
 the reft fhould help. It would be too long to reckon up examples ivhich in this 
 cafe might be produced. If here it be queftioned v/hethcr your eledion of the 
 people be cflentiall to the calling of a Minifter : We anfwer. i, A thing is efTen- 
 tialltwo wayes. Firft, asabfolutely neceflaiie, io that the thing can have noex- 
 iftence without it. Secondly, as neceffarie to the intcgritie of the thing, fo that 
 it is maimed without it. 
 
 Againe, either the people be few in number, and iimplc apt to be led afide^ 
 unable to judge of the fuflicicncie of their Minifter^ or they be more in number, 
 increafcd in wifdome, found intaith^and able to difcern betwixt things that 
 
 N differ. 
 
8 6 The R^ply to the Anfwer of the fevcnth Pojltion. 
 
 differ. In the firft fcnfe the ele6^ion of the people is not neccfliry or eflcntiall • 
 But \\\ the fccond we cannot iky he is no Miniiler that is notchofen by the peo- 
 ple, but his calling in thati-cfped is maimed. If the people be itvj and fimple, 
 apt to be deceived, they (hnd in raore need of guidance and direftion, both 
 from their own Eiders^ and other Churches. IF the people be many in number, 
 full of wildomc and underftanding, their libertie to chooie is the greater ; and it 
 is the greater wrong to be deprived of it. The praftife of the Apofiles and the 
 primitive Churches for many ages will confirmc this ; for fbmetimes men were 
 propounded to the Church to be chofeii : Sometimes the choice was wholly left 
 to them: and was not that for our direction, that more libertie is given where 
 the danger is leflciand more rellraint and caution ufed where the danger is more 
 apparent, that ifthey be left to themfelveSj either an ill or unfit choice will be 
 made ? In reafon this is evident, for the childs confsnt is required in marriage, 
 but the more able he is to choofe for himfelfe , the more libertie may parents 
 grant, the lefTc able, the more watchfullmuft they be ; and fb in this bufineflr. 
 Brotherly focietie requires that we mutually exhort, admonifti, reprove and 
 comfort each other as occafion requires, and as need requires. It is adutieof 
 Neighbour-Churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in the choice and 
 Rom If. 14. eleftionof their Mmifter. When the Scripture willeth that one 
 Heb. g. I ?. (liould admoni(h another, it is not onely a command to every An- 
 gular man towards his fellow, but alfo to any whole company too : another 
 55e/ dealer, ^ocittit Bell armine ^^^ktih^qm jure ptnm -pofuli^ Epifcofum alterius 
 It. I.e. 7 . p^p//// elegerc potc^ f jHma^ anfwereth ; (^erte charitatis jffre O" com' 
 ^'^7>amwad. mPimonefanFtGrHnt. And T^/// when he teacheth that all the faith- 
 lontT. % L fyjj ^j-g members of one myfticall body of Chrift , who ought to 
 RcmTi W hi*ve a mutuall care one of another 5 laid the foundation of this 
 policie. 
 Itisablemilhinthecallingof aMinifter, if either the people be not fit to 
 choofe, or being nt they be (hut forth from the choice, but this maimc doth not 
 make a nuUitie in his calling •, for in every true Church wherethe word is prea- 
 ched and received, and the Sacraments for fubftance rightly adminiftred , there 
 is a true and lawfull Miniftery, and a true and lawfull calling of that Miniftcry, 
 though in fome things dcfe6tive. In the Churcii of God all found and faving 
 truth is to be found, for it is the pillar and ground of truth, and where the true 
 profcllion of all faving truth, with the right ufe of the Sacraments for (bbftancc 
 is to be found, there is the Church, which ordinarily cannot be had, maintai- 
 ned and continued without a lawfull Miniftery , nor that without a calling. The 
 faving truth of God & a lawfull Miniftcry, are both eflentiall to a true Church. 
 Something of this remaines in every compleat focietie that hath any thing of 
 the Church ^ and for effence and fubftance they are true in every true, lawfull, 
 compleat focietie. The profcffign of the truth may be true and found in ail nc- 
 
 ceflary 
 
The Reply to the Anfwcr of the feveyithVofinon, 87 
 
 ccfTary and funciimentall points, though irilxed with diverfe errors, and the 
 Miniftery for truth and {ub<!fancc lawful], though many wayes deficient. In the 
 true Ctech there is a true Minillcry, but the true Church hath continued there 
 by the bleifing of God, where theek^^ion of Minitkrs hath been given away by 
 the people, or taken from them. h\ the primitive Church, when the people had 
 a voycc in the choice of their Paftor , oftentimes there were fa8:ions in the 
 Church, the people itood ag^inft their guides and challenged the whole power 
 -,of cleflion to themfelves. Sometimes they were divided rhcoi, hlfiJA c 6. Auz E- 
 among thcm(elvcs. Sometimes they gave away their pift.iio.o>it^.Soirat,hift, 
 power, at Jeaft in part, and fometimes Minifters were h'<^'^^A%-i9-2oxom,h'(/l, 
 fet over them without their councell and advice, ^'-^'C-iS^i^. Maiian.inEpi- 
 whofe Miniftery notwithftanding was not reputed T^'TtllollM^^^ 
 voyde and of none effeft. If it be objedted that many jukanimadverinieUonn 
 things were amifle in thoie primitive ele^ions , what ), 1. 1 , c.7. nor. 16,17. car- 
 will follow thence, but that the Miniftery may be tur. reply id.parti.pa.ziz, 
 lawfull and good, where there be many wants in the l^^l^-'lf^^^^^^ 
 manner of calling? Ifthis be not granted, what (hall ^^^^"^^^ ^J^- 
 be done when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fie Offi- 
 cer. If the people prevaile againft their Elders, he whom they choofe is no Mi- 
 nifter to them, bccaufe not chofen by their fuffrages : if the Elders againft the 
 people, he whom they approve is no Miniftcr unto them, becaule not chofen by 
 their (iifFrage ; And fo if there be diffcntion they muft fepcrate from, or excom- 
 municate one another, becaufc he is no Minifter to the one whom the others 
 approve. The Orthodox Paftors did profeflc, fo that the Z)o«^/*i7/ would rc- 
 turne to the true and Apoftolicall doftrine, they would not difallow their Bi- 
 (hops, that they might underftand that Catholiques did not dcteft Chriftian 
 con(ecration ( 2i% AugnflineC^tzkt^) by humane error. The high Priefthood 
 was bought and fold for money, and fometimes made annual], and every y care 
 new high Priefts created, Sicutifll prafeEli quos fingulis annii promntant reges, 
 as Sol: Jarchi faith. That as every man would lay out more or Icfle money, he 
 ftiould get or loft the Priefthood, which may be fcene in the examples of Jafon 
 or LMeneUui, 
 
 Nevertheleflc, fo long as the fewes continued the true ^of. Anti^. /. 10. c. 1 8. c, 4. 
 Church of God, the Priefthood was true alfo. The re- See Ambrofi h offuijs, /. i. 
 formed Churches who have feperatcd from the abho- c.'io Hieron. ad Ocean (^ 
 minationsof/^.;w5,profe(rethe firft reformers among ff/f^'f ^f^?^!*i/^?r 
 them received fomeordmary calhng m thcRomane tbol.ortbjraef.i.q.S.Seff,^. 
 Synagogue. They that thinke the bafcft ojRotnfy will ^rfrf». Ktpt^ z. pari i . pa. 
 acknowledge Baptifme unducly adminiftred by Priefts *7 i • 
 orjefuitesjtobeforfubftancethe holy Sacrament of Chrift. And if the Bap- 
 tifme ofGod may be derived from the Miniftery, it is noabfurditic to thinke 
 
 N 2 that 
 
£u The Riplj to the AnJ^er of the feventh Tojltim, 
 
 that the fir ft leckers of reformation derived author itie from Chrift to preach the 
 Word and adminifter the Sacraments by thcmj as Stewards ufed of God to (et 
 them in that office : for the feekers of reformation derived their authoritie froni 
 God, and that which is inftituted by Chrift, is not made voydc by the corrupti- 
 ons of men. 
 
 The third and fourth confideration we will pafle over, becaule from what hath 
 been fpokenj it is caiie to underftand in what fenfe they may be admitted, and in 
 what denyeJj and we have no defirc to trouble you with the examination of chac 
 which faileth not into queftion. 
 
 As for the fecondbranch of your Anfwer, that in cafe the Church fhall with- 
 out cau(e, or without fufficient weightic caufe, raftily or wilfully (et him aiidc 
 whom Chrift hath fee over them, yet he ftill remaines a Minifter of Chrift ( un- 
 till he accepts of a call from another people ) in whofe account, notwithftand- 
 ing fuch DepolitionSj he hath true right of admlniftring among that people : 
 We know not v/ell your meaning; if this be your minde that a Minifter lawfully 
 called and fet over one Congregation, is to be efteemed a Minifter in the ufuall 
 Church, as the particular Church hath unitie with, and is part of the univerfall 
 or Catholiquc : and as a partic baptized is not baptized into that particular 
 Congregation oncly, but into all Churches *, and that the Miniftery is one, C/^- 
 jmaftngfili6 in folldum pars tenetur, as Cyprian (peakes ; and therefore thoufih 
 the Minifter be unjuftly caft ofFby one Congregation, yet he is not to be eftee- 
 med as no Minifter, we freely confent. But if your meaning be that he is onely 
 by right a Minifter of that particular Congregation, becaufe unjuftly depofed ' 
 as formerly in the execution of his office he was a Minifter to them onely, and to 
 none other focietie whatfoever, or in what refpeftfbever ; your opinion is con- 
 trary to the judgement and praftife of the univerfali Church , and tendeth to 
 deftroy the unitie of the Church, and that communion which the Churches of 
 God rn^y and ought to have one with another ; tor if he be no^ a Minifter in 
 other Churches, then are not the Churches of God one, nor the'Minifters one 
 nor the fiocke which they feed one, nor the Communion one which they have 
 each with other. AndifthePaftcr derive all his authoritie to fecde from the 
 Church, when the Church hath (et him afidc, what right iiath he to adminifter 
 »mong that people. If they errein their depofition, it is true they (in ne againfi 
 Chrift. But as they give right to an unworthy man to adminifter among them, 
 if they call him unjuftly, io they take right from the worthy if wrongfully they 
 dspofe him. The Minifter is for his Miniftery the office for the execution, and fo 
 t'lePaftor and the fiocke are relatives : And therefore if their Eleftion gave 
 him authoritie among them to feed ^ their cafting him off hath ft^jppcd him of 
 the fame power which formerly they gave him. And his miniftery ceafing he 
 ftould ceaft to be their Minifter, if he ftood as Minifter onely to that Congrega- 
 
 :Qr; Ki every ref^eft. 
 
 y/hit. 
 
The Reply to the Anfwer of the eighth Fojltion^ i i 
 
 irhit.de peytt.^. 4. Sec, xo.p^. ^59. Certe Ux nature (^ ratio cldmttdt CujuA cti infiitu^ 
 ere ejm efi defirueresfive defiituere, ad quern inUitutio pertinet ad eundem defiitutlonem^ 
 felt defirkffionem pertinere. Rob. aga. X.p. ai4' ^^the Congregation may chiife and cledtheic 
 Governours, then they may rcfufe and reprobate them. 
 
 VIII. Position. 
 
 Tkat one Minifter cannot fcrforme any minifierUU aci in another Con- 
 gregation » 
 
 zyfnfwer. 
 
 1 
 
 F you take minifteriall aft improperly as fometinies it is Caken by fomc, onely 
 when the Minifter of one Church doth excrcife his gifts of praying and prea* 
 chingin another Church, being by them felvesfodefired. Then we anfwcr,in 
 this fcnfe a Miniller of one Church may do a minifteriall aft in another , which 
 he doth not perforin by vertus of any calling, but onely by his gifts ; and thus 
 upon any occalion we mutually perform thofe ads one in anothcrs Churches: 
 But if you meane by minifteriall aft, (uch an aft of authoritie and power in di{^ 
 penfing of Gods ordinance as a Minifter doth perform to the Church , where- 
 unto he is called to be a Minifter^ then we deny that he can fo perform any mi- 
 nifteriall a6t to any other Church but his own, bccaufe his office extends no fur- 
 ther then his call. For that folcmne charge, A^. 20. 28. is not to feed all flocks, 
 but that one flock onely, over which the holy Ghoft hath made them over-fcers. 
 If the queftion were propounded to any Minifter fb cxcrcifing in an others 
 Church, which was once to our Saviour by the chief Priefts and Elders: By "^hat 
 pd^'erdoeft thoti t he fe things, and who gave thee this amhoritle ? let that Minifter 
 uhofoever he bc) ftudy how to make an anfwer. 
 
 Reply. 
 
 'T~ He preaching of the Word, publick prayer in the congregation met toge- 
 ther (olcmnly to worftiip God, and the adminiftration of the Sacraments^arc 
 afts properly nnnifteriail(if any other) to bc performed by power ^ u , r 
 and authoritie IVom Chrift, as you acknowledge , for the preach- j^^^ ^f^^^ jf^^ 
 ingof the Word, and difpenfacion of the Scales in your fecond ftors paftoriali 
 Confideration, But thefe afts one Minifter Riay performe in ano- office./ Z). A- 
 ther Congregation, or towards the members of another Church. V^l ^^'^- exmu 
 You know by whom your queftion hath been propounded touch- ^^'^ ^' 
 ing one Minifters exercifing in another Minifters Church, and how it hath hztn 
 anfwcred jand if you fee more light and truth then formerljj we would defire 
 
 you 
 
po 7y R^iy to the Anfrer of the eighth T*ofitto*i. 
 
 you Aibfiantially to confute what anTwcrsfomeoFyou have returned to that 
 Biam^oftcwi demand. TV >«^«^/f (faith Mr. 7-^.) t^ofethdr arekrwwnmmhers 
 ft. t^Ot * ofdnother Qhurch to ^ommanion in tin 'lor r^rrcnti fifnn fin i>7g occa* 
 fions I hold laivfpfllf and dcfrofe^e my rc-adhi 'ff to praflife accordirtg" 
 JpoL exant. of /^. Again, / conceive that {hpdes my memkrjhii^ dfe \^hcre^ and Uoe 
 tCTt$,p. 188, y^j^j^f yf,j^'^y ^ij^fg Churches give to known paffant^ r.f /». ;«(^ admitted 
 iotheCommumonforAjhort time) bothhimfelf and the whole Chnrch acknowledge 
 me for a member with them for the time of my abode in that fervice^ which they tejti" 
 fiedby defying the help of my fublick^ labours, and their cheer fnli admittance of me 
 to that ordinance during that time without the leaji fcrufle. And if a Mlniiler may 
 pray, preach, blefle the congregation in the name of the Lord, and receive the 
 Sacrament with them^ being thereunto requcfted • we doubt Hot but by conftnt 
 of the Paftor and the Congregatbn he may lawfully difpenfe the Seals amongft 
 them alfo as need and occalion requires. 
 
 That diftindion of preaching by office, and exercifing his gifts onely, when 
 it xsdonc by a Minifter, and defired of none but Minifters, and that in folemne, 
 fct,conftant Church-aflemblieSgWe cannot find warranted in the Word of truths 
 and therefore we dare not receive ft. 
 
 FINIS. 
 
 
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