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1^ P ?c
1673 113
THE
BAPTISTS
Sophiftry
DISCOVERED^
In a Brief Anfwer to a late Pamphlet,
Entituliecl,
The Quakers Subterfuge or Evafion Overmned.
Wherein all people may plainly fee how Unjuftly the Bapifis
deal wich the Qnake^ fy and how Strongly they bend their
Bow, and ftiooc tlicir Arrows at them without a Caufe*
Publiflied to give Satisfadion unto all who (imply defire
• to know the Truth.
Br Williairt'Smith.
He that devifeth to do Evil, jhall be called A Mifchie'votts Perfoft, Prov.
24. S.
if anj man Amngjou feem to be Religious^ and bridleth not his T ongue, but
decetveth bis orvn heart, this mans Religion is vain, Jam. 1, 26.
IF Neceflity did notconR'-ain me to enter upon this prefent Concernment,
I could willingly have been filent in the Matter : but as I fee the Baptijls
Co violently profecuting their Defign againft the People called fakers,
and fo furioufly endeavouring co render them & their Principles the moft
obnoitious, Ifeelaweight upon me to appear at this time on the behalf of
thofe People and their principles • for I dearly own and love fuch as are called
by that Name, who are Faithful to' that Light with which Chrift Jefus doth
6 S enlighccrt
enlighten them : And I certainly know (with many more) That whofoever are
Faithfur to the Light of Chrift Within, that they are Led and Guided by it out
of Daiknefs, and from under the Power of Satan and focome to walk in him
;vvho is t!)e \yay to.the Father, and partake of the Grace and Trutji chat comes
' by him ;.and herein we can ftand with Boldnefs againft all the Calumniations
which you Baptijis endeavour to caft upon us : for we (hall not own any of your
oblique or crooked Envy, thoughyou would impofe it unavoidably upon us in
your account. But I lliall not be lar^e by way of Introcluftion,but come to the
Matter intended which .though ;feemir|gly carryed on by Ralph James only,
yet believ'dj that he vvas,not yvitboutifome alfiftance in mannagmg his Work 5
but however, the Matter was compofed either by him, or others for him, we do
not much regard it: for we certainly know. That the Head of the Serpent
mufi: be. broken by that Seed which is Bleflfed for ever5and though for a time the
Serpent may bruife the Heel of that which is to break his Head, yet his Head
mull be brojjqn by it, and his Authority fall before it 5 .for the ^ed muft
Raign qcc>xd;ng to Piomife; yea, it -doth -Raign, and is glorified over,
the Serpent and hisEnmity : Everlafting Praifes be unto him that lives for-
ever.
And noiv, I fliall come to thy Matter ^ andtheReafon why
I call itthiiie, is, t^ecaafe.I dopot find.anyoch^r Name.fubfcri^ed^ an^ fo I
lliall only rake notice of thee, as being the Subfcriber: and as to what hath
been ah tady anfwered to rhy Procacity, or what may by any other hand be re-
.pl^edto whatlhaveiniConfideration, which maybe terined diy Proclivity
iothy,fifft Matter, I fliall leave it to its own Method, and fpeak diftin(5kly to
the mott confiderable Matters, as to thy laft Portrajture. Cpme then, and
dulyobfervethy own Proceedings 5 and be more leady to hear, than to offer
the Sacrifice of Fools : For, how haft thou endeavoured to make the Nation be-
lieve, through what thou ha'ft offered and facrificed. That the Quakers//-^ 4
Deluded People 5 andthat of Neceffitj it muft hfo,from Something thaf happened
betiveen Richard Anderfon o/Panton />i» Lincolnfhiie, And thj jelf^ as thou af-
fcrteft and in that particular Matter thou hafl concern'd the whole Society of
the People called fakers ; jipd h^ft. endeavoured ^o infinuate their Principles
and Pradlices to be the fame with that which thou chargeft upon R, A. to be Er-
roneous: And haft not thou appeared very infolent in this thy Folly t For ,wliac
man of Prudence & Humility would have concerned a whole Society of Pe'ople
with a.patticularmatter of a particular Perlbn(fuppofing the thing totbe trucj
when he never was in Society or Fellowdiip with them at any tiaje < But I ftiall
proceed to. try thy own way of proving R, A,X0Dt a ^^ker-^io^ that is the moft
principal roibe taken notice of, as being the very Bafis upon which thou & thy
Brethren have raifed your Strudlure & if the Bafis or Foundation be Falfly &
Deceitfully laidjthen the Structure or Building will fall of it felf, to the Shame
of the Guilders : and t.herefore I /hall examine the moft confiderable Paffages
which thou haft produced to prove i?. A. ^aker. And Firft, To the.Reader
thou.fayftj That R. A. didattempt the Propagation of the principles of the Qua-
kers bj denouncing a Curfe upon tfjee in the Name of the Lord-i only bee aufe of that
'Xejlimony which upon ju^ Occaftonthou tvaji ready to bear agflinjl their Er-
rors.
Reply ^ It is not the ^4^w Principles to denouoce Curfesinthe Name of
the Lord, and therefore R, A. did not Propagate their Principles jn doing fo :
.ififo;|ic did, and for thy Teftimony againft their Errors, it was like the Teftl-
mony
1^71 IDIjeiSaptifts :§)op!)iftt;p3l>ifeobercD.
mony of the Unbelieving jC^twGga.nft Chrift and his Apoftles, ifthoudid(l
bear any Teftimouy of that Nature : Buc thou haft manifeft nothing farter to
fatisfie any people, that R. A. did prcpagace tne 6)uakers Principles, of oFthy"
own Teftimony againft their ErrOiS,but thy bare word, who art neither a com-
petent Witpefs or Judge in the Cafe, and fo no caufe to believe that R, A. was-
a ^aker.
2dly. Thou goefl: on to query. What man of Re af on mill believe^that any man
fiou ld voluntarily accufe h 'mfelf^and complain of the Hand of the Lord^ and what
he could prop oje to himjeif^ &ci And then concludeft, faying. Surely in vain
donnngo about to out- face, athing[o manifefl.
Rep, Thou lliouid have queried the Cs things and been fatisfied concerning-
ihem, before thou hadft endeavoured to have made R. A. a ^aker^ and to
fall upon the ^/^/.'^r^ with fuch Violence from thy fuppoling him to be fucha
one ^ this would have manifeft more Wifdon) and Peace, then to fend thy Sto-
ries abroad into the Nation with fuch Confidence as not to be difputed againft>
and now fpiced to query. Why R. A. fhoulddo fo < Surely in vain liaft thou
wrought all this, while in thy dark Imaginations, who art now querying after
ilie Ground or Caufe of i?. ^'saccufing himfelf,and of his propofals to himfelf:
Is ^his the thing thou counteft fo manifeft, that it is in vain for any man to go a-
bouc to cue fice it < Is that manifeft which lies obfcure < and is not that obicuue
which cajuiot be demonftrated And here the Face of Truth can look upon
thee, and Shame may cover thy own-, for thou haft manifeft thy Folly,'
as not knowing the ftate of iJ. A, and yet wouldftmake him 2 ^lakre,
3dly, ThQU fay'ft. Seeing phepthat it cannot be denyed^ hut ^. A. was led
hy the fpirit ef Faljhood, and Prophefied falflj in the Name of the Lord,
&c.
Rep. ,How d^lh the matter appear fo undeniable, feeing it lies only betwixt
R .A. and thy felf ? may not a thing be juftly denyed till it can be proved by
fome qrhers tlitn^ihc Parties concerned^ and thou haft produced no fuch Proof,
and yetfiytit, it cannot be denyed-^ and fo thou. mjyft maintain a tiling upon
any terms, jf that m^ft be of necelfity believed which thou fayeft can't be de-
nyed : Andjif R. A. vv^asledby the Spirit of FalQiood, what dotli that concern
the fakers': |Vluft he needsbea^^^^^r becaufe he was led by fuch a fpirit,
as thou iayft ^ Surely thou and thy Brethren had need put on more Charity,that
you might walk in Love : for the fakers never ufed a ftiift to help R, A,
though falfly charged with it from your dark Conclufion.
4thly, Thou fayft, "Thou hafl not wronged thy Confcience in all thou hafi faid,
mr depgned any Evil againjl the Perfons ef the Quakers • but only to male
Difcovcry ef the Falfe ivayes they have chofen-, that fo they might cfcape froni
thence^ and be faved.
Rep, Thou haft put on a large meafure of Confidence, that dareft juftifie thy
felfinalVthpu haft faid, andartnot fenfible that thou haft wronged thy Cpn-
fcience in any thing thou haft faid : this manaer of boafting gives juft caufe to
fafped that thou caftc ft the Reproof of Chrift behind thy back: for if it were
not fo, thouwouldft meet with Convidions in thy Confcience for what thou
haft faid againft the ^ak^ers, and would be fenfible that thou haft wronged
thy Confgieuce in what thou haft faid : and for any Defign of Evil againft the
fakers
ii6 x$e il5apttfl:s^opl)<ftr?3D<fcot)ei:eD* \6y^
^akers^ Perfons, thou canft not hide thy Defign under fuch a Covering 5
for as thou defign'il againft our Principles, we know thou doft not defign any
good to our Perlons : and for thy difcovery of our falfe wayes, as thou terraeft
them, thou haft only difcovered thy own Polly 5 and therefore we lhall not
forfake our Wayes, in which we are fav'd, to come into thy ways to be con-
demned; And fo flop thy mouth for fpeaking of ourWayes; for thouarta
Stranger to them, and canft not make the leaft Difcovery of them.
jthly, Thoufay'ft Thott do ft not pretend to mrk Miracles-^ and that thott
knoweji thonSinfl not intphat thoithajl pubUfhed, hut hafl more canfeto think
thou fhouldjl have Sinned in concealing it»
Rep, Thou hafl affirmed a Miracle wrought by the Prayers of thee and thy
Congregation, and now thou dofl not pretend to fuch a thing: If thouhadft
Faith that God would anfwer thy Prayers, thou mufl needs pretend to do the
thing according to thy Faith • or otherwife, thou hadft no Faith, and fo no fuch
thing done by thee and thy Congregation, as thou haft affirmed for no fuch
thing was ever done without Faith- and if it was really done, what needft
thou be aihamed to pretend to it 1 But here thou wouldft go retrogade to cover
thy felf, where thou haft moved too forwardly : but this Matter may fall to be
anfwered more fully afterwards. And as for what thou know'ft, in not finning
in what thou ha/l declared ; thou canft not take away the Guilt with thy wordsj
for as thou haft concerned the fakers and their Principles, by declaring a-
gaiaft them, thou haft finned in a high degree, and iheLord will not hold
theeguiltlef?: And for finning^ if thou hadjl concealed //,thou canft not clear thy
felf from that Guilt-, for thou liaft concealed it Eight or Nine Years, and fohaft
fin'd all that time by thy own Conclufion 5 and thou hadft need Repent,before
it be too late.
6thly, Thou fayft. The QviAe^s have a faculty to Aceufe beyond their Abi-
lity to Prove.
Rep, Take this to thy felf, for the fakers are not concern'd in it : and haft
not thou accufed the c^akers beyond thy Ability to prove thy Accufationse
prove Cif thou canft j what thou haft publickly acCufed them with ; and if thou
canft not do it, then is it not an Unmanly Faculty in thee, to flanderthem
with thy Accufations. Come Ralphs thou haft made a Stage to play thy part,
and thou haft appeared upon it to infeft the Nation with thy Infidelity ; but the
Pomr of the Lord God is over thee, and thy flage and thee mujl fall together : and
fo I have done with thy matter to the Reader.
I fhall now go on as to what thou bringftfor Proof,to make good thy affirmati-
on of R. v4's being a gluaker : and when I have don& with that matter, as it is
fcattered in thy Book, I lhall take notice of thy Narrative, and fome other
things, which are moft confiderable, wherein thou haft concerned the
fakers and their Principles ; for neither thee, nor any that have affifted thee,
that can Difcourage the fakers in their Innocency : and I iliall come to the
matter I have premifed.
Page to. Thou fayft, But fince the QjzkQn in their Lying- Wonder, do fo
boldly deny ^ that he Cvi^,) R. A. was a Q:iaker .• hear therefore what isanefledif!
that ca/e, Jiint 17. 1^72 fince the publrcation of /^f Quakers Lying- Wonder,
1672 xDe j5apt<0jS &opl)iftcv SDifcotereo. 117
prej-ence of credible Witneffes hereafter nmed ? ( thou fayft) /> rf^/ de"
mandedof^: A. whether he ever heard the Quakers r" answered, Tesy he heard
them at Lincoln, within the rrifo»y about the jpace of an Hour : And then thou
fayft, // ii known by [ad Experience^ that many in as little time as that have
heen fo leaven d with their Princtples^as that they have not been cleanfed frm the
Corruption thereof to the day of their Death..
Rep. The fakers might Vc;iy bdldly deny R. A. to be a gyuakery and th^u
canft not prove that he was. one ^ but thou fayft, Hear what is attefled in that
cafe^ in the prefence of credible Witneffes : Well, we are willing to hear what
is attefred s but we muft ask thee. Who did atteft it < did any other acteft k
befidesR. A^ No: And what did he atteft : That, he heard the Quakers at
Lincoln about the [pace ef an hour: Well, and what the'n^ muft he therefore
be a Quaker < fee what he hath attefted ^ he did not fay, He was a Qiiaker hj
hearing them the (pace of an hour : But thou fayft, // is known hj f id Experience,
d^c. Covat Ralph, thou muft not thus abufe us, by telling us of credible Wit-
nejj'es, and then make thy own Conclufions: and haft thou been pattering all
this while about proving R. A. to hczQuakery and art as far to feek in thy
third Pamphlet as m thy firft for there was as good Proof to what R. A. faid
in thy firft, as there is in this • and we do not queftion the credit of the Wit-
neffes in what they might hear R. A. fay or confefs but we queftion thy Con-
clufions, Thai becaufe he might hear the QvidktiS about an Hour, that therefore
he mufl be a Quaker, becaufe many (as thou fayft) in as iittle time have been lea-
vend with their Principles, as they have not been cleanfed from the Corruption to
the daj of their Death.How abfitrd art thou in thy Conclufion^for if all that have
heard the Quakers one hour or two,muft therefore be Quakers tbecdLiiCt of fucji
ti^ hearing them^ thanihouldwe be more in number than we are: butthefe
arefeveral have heard the Quakers many hours, who are not Quakers from fuch
their hearing, and if fome in lefs time have receiv'd the Truth by them declared,
Muft it needs follow,that iJ.^.did fods this an Infallible Conclufion, that R. A.
was a Qitaker < And whereas thou fayft, // is knovn by (ad Experience • I ask
thee. Whoever came to thee tcf make known their 'Sad Experienc# after
they had received the Truth of the Gofpel, by the fakers dechrcd < Inftance
any (if thou canft) that we mayknow theSadExperience of fuch as have been ex-
ercifedtherein:But thefe are terms of thy own forming,to lay a Stumbling-block
in the wayt)f the Simple : and we knovv,that a little Leaven leaven'th the whole
Lumb and whofoever receive -the fakers Principles to be leaven'd by them,
they are cleanfed from Corruption, and are not corrupted, as thou concliideft
in thy vain mind : for, is the Light of Chrift Corruptible ^ or doth it cor-
rupt fuch as receive it, and live in it^ But we ceitainly know, the True
Seed in thee (and many more of you) is in Bondage to Corruption, and that
the Lord of Life is crucified in fpiritual Sodom and Egypt.
Thou fayft. That R. A. further fhewed, that before he was at the Meeting at
Lincoln, and after aljo, he had dtfcourf^'^ith the People called Qusktts Forty
times touching their Principles', and after he had been with the Quakers, went
to the Meeting at North Willingham^»4«jf times^ to Contend againjl the Bap-
tifts more than foranj thing elfe.
Re£. What doft thou ftand telling us what R. A. ftiewed for it is not hear-
ing the Quakers an Hour, or difcourfin^ with them Forty or a Hundred times,
touching their Principles5that makes him a ^aker^no more then fevetal ^ews
6 T hearing
hearing Chrift and his Apoftles, and difcourfing wich them loucbing their
Principles,made them Chriftians ; and if he came to contend wich thee and you
at your Meeting, what doth that concern the ^aktrsi this is poor ftuff to c«Jiie
forth in Print from a Paftor.
Thou fayft, That he (viz.) R. A. declared^ without any Inquiry^ that tht
Rcajonwhi hervcnt to pronoftnce thee a Leper, arofefrom the Confiderition of a
Pafjagey Num. 12. and that he lookedupon,the People called Qaakers to h as
eminently orvnedof God as Mofes 5 [0 he was perfwaded, God would fend the fame
judgement on thee for contending againft the Quakers, as hefent on Miriam
for tontendtn^ with Mofes. Attefed (fayft thou) bj^
Chriftopher Fofter,
William Skine,
John Walesby,
Robert Trigg.
Richard Horton.
Rep, Doft thou infer from this Matter, that Richard Anderfon was a Qua-
ker < Canft thou, or any man rationally draw fuch a Conclufion > For thoagh
he might, without any Inquiry, declare all this thou fpeak'ft of, yet it doch
not make him a ^4){rrr, according to the Blefled Truth in which they live.
And for his Perfwafion concerning the Judgement coming upon thee for con-
tending againft the ^4J^frr, 'it was only tohimfelf,and the ^4it^r; cannot
be charged with it, nor he raade a ^tiaker by it.
But ftiU to ftrengthch thy own hands thou tcll'ftus, ihe laH Paff'age Rich-
aid AndtxCon did again relate almofl word for wordin the Prefence of CbtiiiK^'
^cv Voi\et aforefaidy and three Strangers^ which cam cut of Oxford(liire/»
have Satisfaifion concerning the Narrative % at which time alfo, being asf^ed bj
thefe Strangers concerning the T rath of the Narrative^hs faidy As to the Sub^ance
tfity it was allTruthy and that he would own it before any man. And this {{hon
dyikj^sfubfcribedby,
William Greenwood, w;,, Oxfordfhire.?
John Scuchbury, >
John Grammar, > ^ j
Chriftopher Fofter, as Ear-Witfftj[es,
Rep. What is there in all this to make R. A. a ^aker i Muft his faying or
confcfling, That the Subftance of the Narrative was all Truth, make him a
£^aker i Truly the Oxfordfhire Strangers could not receive much Satisfadion
ftom what R. A. faid or confefTed, if they defired to know and be fatisfied
whether he was a ^4^^r.
Thou fayft. The fame general Teflknony of the Truth of the yarrativt^ or the
Sttbflance ofit^ he the faid K, A. did deliver at another time, a few dayes before
the lafl-menlionedi i»theP re feme #/, .
Chriftopher Fofter,
William Skine,
John Walesby,
Robert Trigg,
Richard Horton,
Rep,
i67i Jftafptittai S)op!)<fl:rp2>ifcot)ereo* np
Rep. Thou bring'ft the old Witneffes again to the general Teftimony of
R. A. to th€ truth of the Narrative,or the Subftance of it but 1 perceive thou
direft not fay, the whole Narrative and what the Subftance is, thou haft not
mentioned : But however, he hath not at any time teftified before thofe Wit-
nefles, That he wasa ^4i^er, or that the Narrative was all true*, neither
have they teftified any luch thing from what thoa fayft he declared to them,
or from their own Knowledge 5 and yet thou fayft, Thk^s it appears thatK. A.
was A Quaker : but if this be all thou canft make it appear by^^here is no caufe
for any to believe that he was a Quaker ; and fo thou haft left thy felf as a man
without Credit : for its now well perceived, that thou haft none to ftand by
thee, that is able to teftifie for thee from their own knowledge-, andfoR. A's
S;iyings and Confcffions are thy chief Pillar. And to make it good thou
fayft,
iVpr c^n we have a better Tefiimo»j thA» a mans own Csnfeffien in this cafe h
jar be waft needs know hts otvn Opinion better then another man : nor is it pof-
ftbls forusto prove (zyO: thou) what Converfation (in all refpe^s) he had mth
ihef»y becaufe remote from him, and not concerned in the Quakers Congregati-
ons. And then thou querieft. Whether a mans own ConfeJJion for matter of
Opinion, being Attended with thefe Demonflrations of the matter of Fa^^ there-
^ obferved, be not a cogent Proof to fatisjie indifferent we«^thou fayft) thou mufi
Uave the Sober Reader to judge for his own fatisf action.
Rep. Well Rilp, I perceive thou art come to an end of proving R. A. a
G^aker and if this, which thou haft brought, be all thy Evidence, as may well
befuppofed then R. A. muft either ftand by .thee, or ellethou muft unavoi-
dably fall 5 for thou haft laid the very ftrefs of the matter upon his fingle Evi-
dence, and fo haft/orgotten, or otherwife willfully omitted the Teftimony
of Scriptures 5 for the Scripture faith, tint In the J14 out h of Two cr Three Wit-
neff 'es ever-j wordfhall be ejiablifhedt, and thou wanting this fure Evidence on thy
part, there are not any of thy wordscanbeeftabliftied •, for thou haft neither
Three, Two, nor One Witnefs to Evidence the Truth of thy matter 5 and fo
^ all thy words are as Wind, and cannot be eftabliftied. ^ut thou fayft. Nor
can we have a better TeHimonj than Amans own Confeffion in this cafe., he know-
inghisown Opinion better than another man: Haft thou not much miftaken thy
felf ;n thy Aliertion^ for there may be a better Teftimony in this cafe than a
man s own Confeflion,becaure a man may make an Ignorant Confeflion of his *
own Opinion in relation to the Principles of other People 5 whereas another,
that duly obfei ves the courfe of his Life and Converfation, may be more able
and fit to teftifie how he anfwers their Principles 5 and fuch a Teftimony is far
beyond the Party's own confeffing his Opinion: and fo it will unavoidably
follow. That whatfoever R. A. hath confefled or faid, in relation to the ^4-
kers, according to his own Opinion, doth not make $luAker. And
where ihoufpeakeft of the Irapolfibility for you to prove what Converfation
(in all refpeds) he had with us, becaufe remote from him, and not concerned
in our Congregations : we do believe it h for how is it polfible for you to prove
a thing to be, that never was < for he never had his Oanverfation with us at
anytime, inaay refpeft, neither did he frequent our Meetings or Congrega-
tions at all 5 and fo it is not polfible for you to prove it. And thou ask'ft this
Queftion, Whether a ptart's om Covfeffign for matter of Of inion^ being Atten-
ded
a^t) Xt)e JBapttBs ^opl)(fl;ry 2:)iftoi)ei:c0^ 167
ded with thofe Derr.onflrattons of the Matter «f fa^ hereby vbjerved^he not a cogent
Fyoof to fatfsjic hdiffere»t men ^ and here thou ask'lt a Queftion after (hy
Atfirmac.on • for thou firltfaidft, Nor cnn we have a better Tefimony then a
Man sown Cvnfejjion tn this cafe :^and now thou querieft, Whether a mans own
Ccnfefflon be not a Coge.-d Proofs and foit may well and fafely be concluded,
that thou affirm ft a thing that lies doubtful in thy own Judgment and that
evej-K. A. conf-fled thathe vvasa Q«j^fr, is beyond thy skill to prove by Un-
deniable Evidence ^ and therefore thy Folly is manifeft, giving him a Name
which no Man- or Woman did ever know him by before : for there Is nothing
more certain, but R. A. would foon have been called a Quakerhy feveralofhis
Neighbours, if he had received their Principles, and been aded by their Spi-
rit, as thou wouldeft have It-, and thou mighteft have had the Evidence of fe-
vtral concerning his Alteration from the Wayes, Cuftoms, and Faihions, and
Traditions of the World, and of his bearing a Teftimony for God in the Q«4-
/'(Tj Spiiit but fcreing It never was fo, nor by him confeffed to be fo, thou art
left as a NakecHVlan,wi;hout any Covering : Aad thus thy Subterfuge i'i ovtt-
turned, and thou art without a Hiding- Place, and tliy own Lye is turned upon
thee in callingR.. A. a^^ii^fr, who never was known to have Fellowfliip
with them, or they with him 5 and fo the Quakers not at all concerned in R.
A's Errors fif he did err j as thou wouldft fabuloufly impofe upon them.
I fhall now take nqfice offome Parages in thy Narrative which feem to re-
flediupon the Truth, and to juftifie Error ^ and thereby thou mayftfeehow
darkly and ignorantly thou haft manifeft thy Judgment, and how vainly thou
haft endeavoured to make R. A. a ^taker.
I ft. Thou fayft, That R. A. came to pur Meetings and was convinced-, and '■
fasds He did believe that Baftifm in Water rvas an Ordinance of God.
Rep. It feeras he was convinced at your Meeting, and confeflTed his Belief
to your way of W'iter-Baptifm-& did you own him as a Baptift becaufe he con-
fefted his Belief of that which you hold and maintain to be of fuch abfoluteNc;
cefTity < Now here are two things more confiderable to make him a Baptift\
at that time, then arty you have brought, in all that he has confeflfed, can
make him a ^aker \ and yet it may be fuppofed, that you did not at that time
own him as a notwithftanding his Convincement, aad confefling his
Belief to your Water- Baptifm as an Ordinance of God.
idly, Thou fayft,r^4/ before he came again\he met with the People called Qua-
kers, who told him {as himfelf confejj'ed) That he mufl not look upon thofe outward -
Ordinances-, for they were low but that he mulf mind the Light Within^ and
be guidid by it • and not by the Scriptures, for they were a Dead Letter.
Rep. It is to be obferved, that thou didft not know whether he met with any
of the fakers or no, but as lie confelTedjand yet he muft be a ^aker in Print :
Wruld ever any man that had the right ufe of his Wits, have fpread fuch Sto-
ries abroad, as thou haft done, and have no certain knowledge of what thou
writeft ^ And your outward Ordinances, as you call them, are Temporal, and
may befeen, and the Apoftle would not have fuch things looked at-, and they
that will not be guided by the Light, and follow it, they difobey the Do-
dlrinf ofChrift,and abide in Darknefs; and they that abide in Darknefs do not
know the Scriptures, nor the Power of God : and this is teftified upon Truth's
acGounf,whateverR, A. might fay unto thee. ^dly^
1672 xlje jisapti'fts; SropDiftcp a>ifcot)ereD, 13 1
3dly. Tliou fayeft, That when R.A. 4^7//^ //^^ Meetings he much
contended a^ainji the Bapttfm of Water 5 andfaid^ That now t,he) were to be Bap-
tiz,td with the BAptifm of the Spirit^ and not with Water.
Rep. As for R. A's Concencion fif he did to) it doth no: concern the matter
' in hand ; and you Baptifts do not fo well a^^ree m all Poiais of your Belief, bL<c
you can fometimes contend onewich another, and if thee and K. A. could not
agree, it doth not follow, that he was a j^ntahr: and if you be not Bapcized
with the Bapcifm of the Spirit, how are you One Body foriiwas byoneSpirit
that the Saints were Baptized into One Body, whether ^^eivs or Gentiles:
And if you can you may demonftiate, which of you all have a Com-
miffion from Goi to be an Adminiftracor of Water, in order to Baptize
any.
4!:hly, Thou fayeft, that R. A laid, The Spirit was to try the Scriptures^
and not the Scriptures the Spirit, And then faith, that thou faidft, Thou belie-
ved'ft^ the Scriptures were to try ihe Spirit^ and not the Spirit to try the Scrip-
tures, Thus in thy firft Narrative;
Rep. If you difct)urfed on this manner, you were both at work in your Ima-
ginations; for the Spirit and Scriptures agree, and do not Tiy each other :
and thou haft fufficiently manifefted thy Ignorance both oi the Spirit and of
the Scriptures, who would have the Scriptures to try the Spirit ^ Canft thou
produce a Scripture to mske good thy Belief r but in thy Lft Narrative thou
ieem'ft to ftatethe matter otherwife, and fo wouiJ'lt alter the cafe to cover
thy felf, where thou haft over-fliot thy felf , and fome other Alterations,
which thou haft made in thy laft, which I (hall wave at prefent j And why
haft thou altered this matter, and put thy Meaning to it ^ For thoufayftirt
• thylaft, Thattboubelieveft^ the Scriptures were to Try the Spirits^ and not the
Spirits to Try the Scriptures \ meaning ffayft thou) as before is faidy That the
Holy Spirit, as he fpeaksth in the Scriptures^ is to TrJ and Judge the Spirits of
meny and particularly the Quakers Spirit^ which they call the Light within:
And here thou haft plainly manifefted Deceit unto all who have Eyes to fee^
and thy Meaning will not cover thee 5 And who have any caufe to believe
thee, that canft twift thy words from one thing to another ? But how do the
Scriptures^ try &judge the fpiritsof men,according tothy Meanings! would un-
derftand thy mind more plainly,as to this thy Evalion: And why muft the Qaak,
Spirit (which thou fayftthey call theLightwithin)be particularly ti yed & judged
by the Scriptures^ Muft the Letter try & judge the Lights Wouldft thou make
the Greater fubordinate to the Leffer < for that which is the Original of a thing
muft needs be greater than that which is manifeft from it, and the Letter was
manifeft from the Light % for the holy Men of God fpake as they were moved
by it, and it was within them when it moved them to fpeak: and fo the Holy
Mens Spirit was the Light with which the ^akcts have Unity, and their
words do not try and judge the ^/f^^rj Spirit, but their words are fulfiled
and witneffed by the fame Spirit: and here the ^^iJ-^r; are before you all,
who are only in the words, as they were once fpoken, and not in the Spirit
by which they were fpoken-, and fo you want the Key of Knowledge,
which opens the Myfteries of the Kingdom: and when JohnhA the Saints
try the Spirits, whether they were of God, he faid. There were many Falfe
Prophets gone out into the World ^ and the Falfe Prophets were in a Falfe Spirit,
which the Saints were to try in the True Spirit • and fo the True Spirit was the
Tryer of all falfe fpirits & falfe Prophets, & the fame Spirit is the Tryer of all
6 V fpirits
191 X|jcjBapttftSS>op$fftr^ axfcotjem. i<57a
fpirits HOW 5 and they thjt live in it hold faft that which is good, and know ir
to be Good though falfe fpirits may call it Evil.
5thly, Thou fayeft, Thou faidfl to R. A. that thou w/ift afraid that the Qua-
kei s were deceived, and guided hj a Spirit of Delufion 5 andthat it was thy Judg-
jTjeht, That aH the Sons and Daughters of men ought to be guided by the Scrip-
tures.
Rep, It feems tliou hadft no certain Ground to believe that the fakers were
Deceived and Deluded, but only waft afraid • and fo ir is manifeft ihou couldft
not try them, either by the Spirit or Scriptures ; furely Wife Men will be a-
Ihamedofthy Ignorance and Folly : And for the removing thy vain "Fear, we
are willing to tell thee and thy Brethren, That we live in the "Bleft'ed Truth,
where Righteoufnefs and Peace embrace and kifs each other. And as for thy
Judgement, That all the Sons and Daughters of men ought to be guided by the
Scriptures-^ thou hafr given thy Judgment inconfiderarely • for thou haft not
demonflrated any thing as a Ground why it ought tobefo, but only ftated it
from thy own Judgment-, and if thy Judgement be fufticient to bring others
to be of the fame judgment, then the Judgment of the Pope may plead Au-
tho:i[y, and fo people may as foon be Papjjis as Baptifts 5 and if there be no
other Guide, but the Scriptures, for the Sons and Daughters of men to be
guided by 5 then what Guide have fuch as never heard nor read the Scrip-
tures ^ have fuch no Goide to lead them CO fear Go^, and work Righteouf-
nefs, to be accepted of him f ormuftthey ofneceflity perilb for want of the
Scriptures to be their Guides or whether can fuch a People be faved^ thou
art here concern'd to give thy Judgement again ^ for there is not yet fuch a
Decifion of the great Controverfie, as thou vainly boafteth.
6chly. t\\o\xxiOVt comtikio{^tzko{K, k's comingto reprovethee, and pro-
nounce thee a Leper ^ and that a little time after he confeffed, he was deceived^
and was a f life Prophet'-, and that the fame judgment was come upon one of his
children, and himjelf. Wife and other children taken with a Rejilefs Pain in
their Bodies : and that he defiyed thee to Pray for htm, and thou and thy Congre-
gation did pray for the removing of that Dtflemper and Affliction and they
were re floredto their former Health again, which (thou faylr^ R. A. confe(Jed
when he came to the Meeting again.
An(. It is to be obferved. That the very Ground of all the Buzzle and
Noife, which thou haft made againft the fakers, is only from the bare and
lingle Confeftion of R, A. and thy own Confequences and Conclufions from
what he hath confelTed andfald 5 but thy groundlefs Conclufions do not prove
fo effedual for thy purpofe, as thou might'ft vainly fuppofe when thou be-
gun'fl thy work: for though thou haft made fucha Noife againft the Light
Within, and againft the Quakers, becaufe R. A, might tell thee, The Qiia-
kers d'd tell him, he was to mind the Light, to be guided by it ^ yet the Light is
not to be charged with R, a's Mifcarrying, if he did Mifcarry in any thing
wherein he concern'd the Light: for if he did concern the Light in giving Judg
ment againft thee, and then afterwards confeft, that he was Deceived, and
was a Falfe Prophet 5 this dothnot make the Light to be a Falfe Principal, nor
thofe that are faithful to it, to be guided by It, a Deluded People: and if he
did confefs, that he was Deceived, it doth not follow, that the Lightde-
ceived him \ for there were never any falfe Prophets in the True Light, nor
never
i67z %\^t7Bai^m^ &o9\)mtvPikoum, i^i
never any True Prophets outofic-, and fo it is very clear, that /i. ^. was not
guided by the True Light when he was deceived, and was a falfe Prophet ^ nei-
ther doth it appear by all thou haft faid jthat he was gained by the Light,and yet
he mull be call'd a ^<i)^fr,becaure he might fometimcs have Ibmthing to fay of
the Light,and againlt Water-Baptifm : and fuppofe this vvasgranted^yet it doth
not make him any more a ^aker, than for a man to Ipeak of Water-Bap-
tifm and againftthe Vefe would make him a Zf^/;//// ^ a«d if fuch a man fliould
door Liy fomcth:ng that is amanifeft Error, would you Baptijls take it well,
that h'.s Error ihould be charged upon your whole Society, and you counted
a Deluded People becaufe of fuch a Mifcarriage by that man, when he was ne-
ver taken notice of to be owned by you < it may well be concluded. That you
would be ready to clear your felver, both from the man, and his Mifcarriage 5
and to blame luch as lliould lay hiS Mifcarriage upon you : And if you would
not be Willing to bear fuch a thing your felves, if caft upon you from fuch a
Ground, why then do you fo much bufieyour felves to do it unto us ^ Are
you doing la this as you would be done by let tiie Juditious judge : For yoa
neither manlftft Juftice, Equity or Mercy towards us in this matter • but ra-
ther vent your Envy and.Malice againft us,as the Sober minded well perceive.
And as for liie Judgment of A. againfl: thee i?. J. if fuch a thing, was, 'and
the thing coming upon himfelf anS Family, it doth not concern the Quakers
acall, or thj Light of Chrift within, which is their principle-, and hadft thou
been fowife, as tof have let iheQ»akers alone, and not concem'd them, its
polTible the Story of thy Prayers for removing fuch a Judgment might have
made thee and you famous in the Eyes of fome who delight in Novelties: but
thou had taken a wrong courfe to advance thy own glory •, and in time, both
thee, and thofe that have aflfifted thee in thy work, will fall under your own
Shame : for the True Light is not to be charged with that which by a Falfe
fpiritmaybe done, no more than an Innocent Man is to be charg'd with the
Off^rnce of an Offender for, all that live in the true Light receive true Com-
mands, and no Error is to be charg'd upon the Commander, nor fuch accoun-
ted Deluded that keep his Commands-, for the true Light leadeth all thofe that
faithfully follow It out of all Error, into all Tiuth-, but where Imaginations
have liberty to work, they conceive a falfe thing, and bring forth a falfe birth,
and in that work the Light may be pretended though not at all concerned : and
by this thou mayft fee where R. A. was when he was deceived, and was a falfe
Prophet, as thou fayft he confefTed. And fo it is not what any may fpeak of the
Light Within that makes the Light guilty of any thing that may be done amifs
by fuch as fpeak of it ^ for itftandsa Witnefs againft them in their Confcl-
. ences, when they tianfgrefs it. And as for R, A. and his Family being re-
ftoi'd to their former health, by the Prayers, of thee and thy Congregation, it
is ftill to prove, though thou haft gotten feveral fubfcribers to what R. A. con-
fefs'd concerning itj and in fu«h a manner thou mayft write one Book after ano-
ther with reiteration fortho^^ brought'ft Evidence to what J?, ^.confefTed
in thy firft, and thou art gotten no further yet, only haft gotten new WitneflTes
to Ev. A's old Confeflion 5 and fo all thou haft done by thy laft Subfcribers is
but a further manvfeftation of thy Folly, and it is not worth taking notice of in
particulars, neither (hall I trouble my felfor the Reader with fuch Impertinen-
cies:and thou^oft as much as confefs,that as to thy own knowledge,that thou
waft ignorant of any Afflidion upon R. A. and his Family, or of their Reco*
very
3 ICDe BaptiCs ^opl}<ftrp SDifcci^ereD^ 16
very-, for thou fayfr, Hadji thou fore- jan this retv^jbi-.ejs w the Incrcdnloui
Qu.akers, thottmightest perhaps h^ve deprived i hem of this thctr fcoltjl) Advan-
tAge 'y and then thou bringeft CiuUt and the Apollle Paul^ whcm ubou
:didnotgo tovtfil allfortvhoje Health they prayed : and fo thou U'ouldfi:
parallel thy leH with thofe Llnparallerd Workers and thou wculcft bnng thy
Tclfcff again by faying. But rvhat aw 0 Lord ! I confefs unto thee^ 1 am net
worthy to be rne/itiond here 5 and lb ihou fir(i: fcenri'ft to inclade thy lelf with^
Chrilland the ApolUe, a-id then would exclude thy ieifagain, ^-s not wor-
thy to be mention'd : An J for thy Fore-l'eeing the Peevilhntis of [he g)uakers
fas thou term'fticj thou haft lham'dihyfelf with that ExpitlTion, fo, n feems
tfiou hadll nothing in it to have fucisfy'dtliy felf of r he truth of the matter, but
only to have depriv'd the ^takers of that which thou callefl their Fool fh Ad-
vantage •, and fo thou couldft not pray either in Faith or Hope, whodidft not
know whether ihere'was any Affli<5fcion upon thofe thou pi ayd'fl- for or no^ and
fo thou and thy Congregation pray'datan adventure, and R. A. confelTed to
the Reftoration of Health again ^ and this is the Great Wonder which thou haft
fpread abroad in the Nation, to make people believe, that you prevaii'd with
God by your Prayers: but the moft Juditious do rather believe chat it was a
meer Fidion, and thou art not able from th^ own knowledge to demonftrate
it otherwife. And thus I have done with tny Narrative.
I fhall now cake notice of fome particular Paflagcs, whichthou haft ftated to
make good R. A's Affli(5lion and Rcftoration.
Thou fpeakeft of feme that asked him CmeaningR. A.) whether he him[elf
had not a Child prefentlj after that was Leprous ? And he /aid, he had a Child then,
that did break out into Seres, p. 1 3 .
if<r/'. Mark this Confeflfor 5 he did not diredly anfwer theQueftion of the
Enquirers, as to confefs his Child had a Leprofie ^ but that he had a Child
broke out into Sores : and it is well known toall that have their Senfes, that
there may be a breaking out inco Sores,and yet no Leprofie : and chis is all chat
i?, A. confefTed upon inquiry. How hath the poor man been drawn out
and fqueezed by Inquirers , to anfwer the End which thou Unjuftly haft be-
gun ^
Thou fjyft in the fame page, That the Title Page of the Narrati've ms not of
thy comfofing.
Rep. Itfeemsyou54^/////can fliuffle to make out your own matter* and
thou canft fubfcribe to that which is not of thy own compofing : and to help
the matter .s well as thoucanft, thou fayft, It is 7)ot without Truth 5 but whe-
ther this appears like the Truth, I (hall leave to all Unbyaft Judgemems to de-
termine.
Thouendcavonreft pa. 10, to make R. A. a without any Contra-
didlion, fayingr/&4/R. A. wtfj 4 Quakeri» Pr/W/p/f/, and owned that People
above all others y and was aBed by their fpirit^ 'is palpable enough from what is faid
in the Narrative.
Anf. Thou now feem'ft to leave thy Subfcribers toR. A's Confeflfion, and
take the Matter upon thy felf, as if thy own word fhould carry the matter more
clearly then all that R. A. hath confeffed, and by ferverai fubfcrib'd : and muft
i6^t %\^t )6apt(ft)S jfeDptjmrp jDiftmm. 13^'
we take thy bare word that R. A . was a Quaker in Principles, and own'd us a-
bove all others, and was a(5led by our Spirit < would ft thou impofe thefe things
upon us from thy vain Condufions ? but as thou haft refer'd this Ma tcer to the. '
Narrative, as fuch a palpable thing, I (hall not run into Tautology 5 but de-
fire the Reader to perule what is anfwer'd to the : Narrative, winch, I doubt
not, will fully faiisfieany Judicious Pef fon touching this matter.
I ftiall take a little notice of three Heads, which thon ftateft to make good
this ralfeiAffertion,
. J^irji^ Thcufayft, Jnthdt he contributes his TelUmony-to that which they call
the Light Within, at as high a rate as the mtfl of that fVay ^ which (fayft thou) //
they hjtvc a»y PrineipUs at all, is the chief of their Principles.
Anjwy What Teftiraony (as thou call'ft it) Jl. A. did contribute to the Light
Within, or at what rate, we have only thy bare word and our Belief not
being in. thee, we can- 1 credit thy Stories, and therefore thy words are but as
Wind unto us. But thou fayft, if we have any Principles at all, the Light is
the chief: and here thou queftioneft, whether we have any Principles at all 5
and yet, even now affirmed, that R. A. was a Qu^aker in Principles: who
would take thy word,that know'ft not what thou fayft, or whereof ihoa uffirm-
cft < and if. the Light be the chief (as thou put' ft the cafe) we have no caufe
to be afliam'd of it : but thou flialt not at this time be made wir4Pii t>y me, in de-
moailratiag what Qur Principles are,or what Is the chief 5 but thou mayft grope
in the Dark, where thou art, feeing thou doft not love the Light. • ;
Secondly, Thou fayft, in that he took upon him to appear as a Prophet fet
/;&/QaakefS^ condemning fuch as oppofed them, and Proclaiming them to he fh'e
Teofle of God,
- 'r'-.T;;'.'! ■ .
Anfw.. Ihow oncefaidft, 7he Light commanded him^ and now fayft, Hs
tookupfinhim: mark thy Contradidlion, and condemn thy Folly 5 for he did
not appear as a Prophet for the ^takers, though he might rebuke thee for
fpeaking againft them 5 for that he might do in Civility, as a man, feeing thy
Incivility in fpeaking againft them behind their Backs, and yet no more a
Quaker (ot rebuking thy Folly, then thoa in thy Folly : And where did he pro»
clai [IV them to be the People of God ^ doft thou count that to be his Proclama-
tion, when he faid. He was come to reprove thee for fpeaking againji the People of
GodcalUdQviaktts: this is all the Proclamation that can be found in all thou
haft exprefted and whether this was true or no, we have no Evidence befides
thy own , and we have no caufe to believe thee, who art the very Author of
fuch unheard of, and incredulous Stories.
Thou makeft a Rabble about the Evidence, that the Quakers bring to inva!-
lidate the Narrative, as if they were either abufed or moft unworthily forged :
but this is fuch a piece of Fobbery as not worth taking any notice of, except -
one did intend to follow thee in thy Humors 5 and being fo inconfiderable, a?
not E<ycarry any thing of weight to make any thing good on thy parr, or to male
any thing good againft the ^4^^r/, either for abufing, or unworthily for^ng;
any thing, I ftiall wholly wave it j only take notice of one Paflage, p. 1 5'Con-
cerning fomething that t(iou fayft Katherint Hall ftiould fay of the fakers cal-
ting for much Ale, and brought it in the Street, bid the People Drink^^vhat they
iHould, and if tbey would hdvc more, th^y fhouUhaveit ; and then thou draw'ft
5D6e j5aptiftsS)opD(fttv 2>(fcot)eteo*
thy own C fjy»"g> -P'"^^ lO'^s th'-Ptopk to L fntni them,
r ^iwfw. Cariii rhou tell us the Long, ide or Latifide of is Story f for
,1 do not know who can find out cither : and was it unbcc ji^..-^^ ChriftiaHttj or
'^ivilttjt to bid the People drink, who came thither upon their account < But
this matter npeds no anfwering for all that know the fakers, do very well
ilmow their Moderation , Tcmporance and Sobriety , and that they are not
Wlin'dto theE5?cefs of Strong- Drink, or any way to Encourage others in
i'uch a Pradice : bat one may plainly fee, that thou woald'ft creep under any
thing for thy Subterfuge-, and ?hy wickednefs in this matter api^eateth in 9
very high degree.
Thirdljy Thou fay ft, Sj his aSiing after the manner of divers Quakers
thefe days^ gotng on Unfent Errands^ only moved hy the Conceits of their own
hearts,
. Anfw. His ading was not after the manner of any ^akers^ according to thy
Conclufion*, for the fakers know who fends them on their Errands, and
Jcnow their ^rrand, though thou knoweft neither 5 and he that fends them is
True, & Truth is their Errand , and being moved by him, who is the Fountain
of Life, and Well-fpring of Mercies, to Labour and Travel in his Work, they
are upheld by his Power to do his Will 5 and this is more then the Conceits of
the.r own Hearts : though the Good Heart may conceive Good Things, and
indi**> Good Matters ? but thy Motions lie in the Conceits of thy own Brain*
which is a Haoitation of Notions. And feeing thou affirm'ft,/A« Qjiakers^^ow
Unfent Enandsy I ask thee, or any Bapt/ji^ Who fendeth you on your Er-
rand, feein'Tvou pretend to have an Errands Have you heard the Voice of
Cod and C : tell you your Eirand,and to fend you forth with it^ give as
aplain Anl\Vci.
And thuf ^ have Anfwer'd the moft confiderable Parages in the Pamphlet
pmaintainR. A.a^4i:rr-, and I may well hope, that the Judicious and So-
ber-minded, who only defire to know the truth, will be fully fatisfied that
R. A. was never a Quaker in Prmciple, Judgment or Pradiccj and fo the
Baptijls are plainly Dilcover'd in their Sophiftry.
And as to the reft of thy Book, concerning Chrift the Light In every man,
and about O i dinances, &c, thou and the Reader art refer'd to a Book, which •
is comirig^orth in An(wev 10 fhomas HickSi caWed 3. Baptifi, which doth treat
fully concerning thefe things 5 in which thine and thy Brethren's Objedions
and Cavils are fully A nfwcred,
w. s.
The End.