THE
t R Y A L S
CONDEMNATION
0 F
rTHOMAS WHITE, alias MTIITEBREAD,
Provincial of the Jefdts in Ejigland,
WILLIAM HARCOURT, Pretended Redor
of Eondojiy
' JOHN FEN WICK, Procurator for the J<?- ^
[lilts in England,
JOHN GAVAN GAWEN, And
ANTHONY TURNER,
Allj£5f andPRJE^r^';
EII G H T R E A S O N.
1 N
Confpiring the Death
o F THE
KING,
The Subverfion of the GOVERNMENT, and
PROTESTANT RELIGION,-
At the SelTions in the Old-Bailey for LONDON and MIDDLESEX, on
Friday and Saturday^ being the iph and i/\th of June 1679.
I
LONDON,
Printed for H. Hills, T. Parldurft, J. S tar key, Dl Newman,
T. Cockeril, and T. Simmons. i6j^.
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THE
Y A L
0;? Friday 13th./?/June, i6q^. anheSeffions-^
Hoiife hi the Oid -Bayley, the Court being met, at which alt
the Judges of England were prefent. Proclamation was made
of Silence and Attention whilji the Kings Commiffion of Oyer and
Terminer, and of Gaol-Delivery were openly read, and after the
ufual Proclamation of attendance upon the Seffions, the Court
proceeded to call the Jurys impannelled, and to the Tryals of the
Prifoners thus.
SEt Thomas tVhitehread, John Fenwick, William FFarcouri.,
John Gavan, Anthony Turner, arid James Corker to the Bar.
Capt. Richardfon. They are all on.
Cl. of Cr. Thomas White-, KizsWhitehread, Hold up thy hand.
John Fenivick, Hold up thy hand.
William Harcourt, alias Harrifon, Hold up thy hand.
John Gavan, Hold up thy hand.
Anthony Turner, Hold up thy hand*
James Corker, Hold up thy hand.
Which they all feverally did.
And James Corker prefented a Petition to the Court, to this
Efea.
That ahout 8 Moiieths fince the Petitioner was committed for refu/ing to take
the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, that he had lately receivd notice to
prepare himfelf for his Tryal againft this prefent day, but that the fame teas of-
terwards contradikled, and that yeflerday a Gentleman informed him from the
Attorney-General, that a Bill ivas found againft him of High Treafon^ and that
he was to prepare himfelf for his Tryal thereupon accordingly j and forafmuch as
the Petitioner is altogether ignorant of the matters charged upon him in the fame^
and by reafon thereof, is abfolutely furprifed, and unprepared for his defence^
and dherfe Gaol-deliver ys having been held fince his fir (I Commitment, and he
never called to his Tryal j he doth humbly befeech their Honours, that he may
not be Tried till the next Seffions, and that in the mean time, he may have Copies
of fuch Informations aS are given in againft himi
L. C. J. Mr. Corker, have you really arty Witrieffes, without whom
you cannot make your Defence.
Corker. No, my Lord I have none.
Lord C. J. You do not underftand my Qiieftion, do you want arty Wit-
B nelles'
(2)
nelles now, that you may have anotl er time ?
Corker. I am a ftranger to the things charged upon me.
L. C. J. Can you not tell, whether you have any WitneTles or no ^
the matter is this, both for you and all the reft of you, that there may be
no exception; you are upon the Trial of your lives, and we upon our
Oaths, and therefore I fpeak it, if fo be you have any WitnelTes, becaufe you
pretend you are furprifed, if you havd really ariy, whereby you can make a bet-
ter defence for your felves, then now, the Coiirt 'will incline to your requeft ;
but if you have not, then 'tis in vain to tarry.
Corker. My Lord, I verily believe I lliall have Witnefles.
L. C. J. As for the Copy of the Indidment it is never granted to any
perfons, and therefore muft not be to you.
L. C. J. N. A'on muft give us clear fatisfacftion, that you are real in your
pretences;- and muft give us the names of your WitnelTes where they live, and
let us know what they can fay for you, that we may be fatisfied; forfucha
general alligation as this, any man living may make.
Mr. Recorder. He was one of the ten that was appointed by the Council
to be tried.
Lord Cb. JitJi. Why, you had notice a week ago.
Corker. But it was contradicfted the next day.
Capt. Richardfon. I heard Mr. dure fay that he lliould not be tried then.
Mr. Att. Gen. He had notice together with the reft, but he was not in the
firft Order of Council for the Trial of thefe perfons, he fent to the Clerk
to know who were to be tried and his name was left out; and founderftood
lie was not to be tryed. On Tuefday laft I moved that he might be put into
the Order, and fo he was, and now there is an Order of Council for it; but
he had notice a week ago as well as the reft.
Capt. Richardfon. I gave them notice that all were to prepare for their
Tryal as this day, and in order to that, I went to the Council, to fee what
Order was taken about it, and the Clerk lliewed me their names, amongft
which Corker was left out, and I told him Corker had notice of Trial, and
therefore I defired I might have an Order for him too; they told me that
there was no Order taken about him.
Tvlr. Att. Gen. My Lord, I would have all the Gentlemen have all the
fair play in the world, therefore if he can fatisfie your Lordlhip, that he can
have any WitnelTes that he hath not now, I am content his Tryal lliould ftay
to another time.
Lord Ch. JuJl,- You lhall hear the Indidment read, and there you will
know what fort of .Treafon it is you are charged with, and alter that you will
make your anfwer, whether you have any WitnelTes.
Mr. Recorder. My Lord, it will be necefiary, that I give your Lordlliip
an account of one thing. On Satturday night there Came a Gentlewoman to
me on the behalf of all the Prifoners, and faid there were fome WitnelTes, that
Ihe was under a pprehenfion would not appear for the Prifoners, unlefs they
had fome order, her name llie told me was Ireland., and llie came in the name
of all the Prifoners, Ihe faid: I told her if llie would bring me a Note of the
WitnelTes names they did defire, they lliould have, all the alTiftance the
Court could give them for the getting of their WitnelTes this day; but fince
that time I never heard of the Gentlewoman, or from the Prifoners.
Lord Ch. J. Mr. Corker, you will do well to take notice, what you arc
charged withall, and afterwards tell us if there are any WitnelTes that can fay
any thing for your defence, at your Tryal for thofe matters.
Clerk ok Cr. You ftand indiftcd by the names oi Thomas White in the
Parilh
■
Parifn of St. Giles in the Fields in the Coiinty of MinMejex Clerk, other-
wife called Thomas Whitehread of the fame Parilh and County Clerk, John
Fenmick of the fame Parilli and County Clerk , William Harcourt of the
lame Parilli and County Clerk; otherwife called William Harrifon of the
fame Parilli, and County Clerk, John Gavan of the fame Parilli, and County
Clerk, Anthony Turner of the fame Parilli, and County Clerk , and James
Corker of the fame Parihij and County Clerk,
For that jou., as falfe Traitors againjl the mod Illujlriously mojl Serene., and
mofi Excellent Prince, Charles the Second, hy the Grace of God, «>/England,
Scotland, France, and Ireland^ King, Defender of the Faith, &c. your Su-
pream and Natural Lord; not having the fear of God in youY hearts, nor iveiglT
ing the Duty of your Allegiance, hut being moved and feduced by the injiigation
of the Devil, the Cordial love, true, due^ and natural Obedience, which true
and faithful Subjebls of our faid Soveraign Lord the King, towards him Jhould,
and of right ought to bear ; wholly withdrawing, and devifing, and wit hall your
Strength, intending the Peace and common Tranquility of this Realm to difturb^
and the true Worfhip of God within this Kingdom of England ufed, and hy the Law
Eflablijlsed, to overthrow, and the Government of this Realm to Subvert, and,
Sedition and Rebellion within this Kingdom of England, to move^ ftir up and
procure, and the Cordial love, and true and due Obedience^ which truepnd
faithful Subjecls of our faid Soveraign Lord the King, towards him Jhould, and of
right ought to bear, utterly to withdraw, put out, and extinguifh, and our faid
Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Deftrullion to bring, and put, on
the four and twentieth day of April, in the thirtieth year of the Reign of our
faid Soveraign Lord, King Charles the Second, at the Parijh of St. GihiS in the
Fields, in the County of Middlefex afore/aid; Tou the faid Thomas White
otherwife Whitebread, John Fenwick, William Flarcourt otherwife Harrifon,
John Gavan, Anthony Turner, and James Corker, with diverfe othet falfe
Traitors Subjelis of our faid Soveraign Lord the King, to the Jurors unknown^
faNy, fubtilly, advifedly, maliciouly, and traiteroufly, did purpof 'e, compafs, ima-
gine, and intend Sedition and Rebellion within this Kingdom of England, to move,
ftir up, and procure, and a miferable Slaughter among the Subjeids of our faid
Soveraign Lord the King, to procure, and caufe, and our faid Soveraign Lord
the King, of his Kingly State, Title, Power, and Government, of his faid Kingf
dom of England, utterly to deprive, depofe, cafi down, and difinherit, and hirn
our faid Soveraign Lord the King, to Death and final DefiruFlion, to bring,
and put, and the Government of this Kingdom of England, and the Sincere
Religion of God within the fame, rightly, and by the Laws of the fame Efia-
llifhed, at your will and pleafure, to change and alter, and the State of this
whole Kingdom of England, through all its parts, well inflituted and ordained,
wholly to fubvert, and deflroy, and War, within this Kingdom of England, a-
gainjl our faid Soveraign Lord the King, to levy : And to accompUjh, and ful-
fil your faid mofi wicked Treafons and Traiterous imaginations and purpofes ;
Tou the faid Thomas White otherwife Whitebread, John Fenwick, William
Harcourt otherwife Harrifon, John Gavan, Anthony Turner, and James
Corker, and other Falfe Traitors againfi our faid Soveraign Lord the King,
to the Jurors unknown, the faid four and twentieth day of April, ivith Force
and ArmSy &c. in the Parifh aforefaid, and County aforefaid, falfty, maliciouf'
ly, fnbtilly, advifedly, devillifhly, and traiteroufly, did affemble, unitCi, antT 'ga-
ther your felves together, and then and there, falffy, malicioufly, fubtilly, ad~
vifedly, devillifhly, and traiteroufly, did confult, confent, and agree, our faid
Soveraign Lord the King, to Death and final Deflrullion, to bring, and put^
and the Religion of this Kingdom of England, rightly, and by the Laws of the
(4)
fame EJlahlijhed^ to the Superflition of the Romifli Church, to change and alter^
and the Government o f this Kingdom of England, to Suhvert; and that one
Thomas Pickering, and one John Grove, Jhoidd kill and murder our faid So-
veraign Lord the King^ and that you the faid Tliomas Wliite (9/'/;er®/yMVhite-
bread, John Fenwick, William Harcourt otherwije Hariifon, John Gavan,
Anthony Turner, James Corker, -and other Falfe Traitors, again(i our faid
Soveraign Lord the King^ to the Jurors unknown^ floould therefore Jay, cele-
hrate, and perform, a certain number of Mafes, then and there amongji your
felves agreed on , for the Soul of the faid Thomas Pickering, and for that
Caufe, Jhould pay to the faid John Grove, a certain fum of Money, then and
there amongfl your felves agreed on •, and that you the Jaid Thomas White
otherwife Whitebread, John Fenvvick, William Harcourt otherwife Harrifon,
John Gavan, Anthony Turner, and James Corker, and other Falfe Traitors
to the Jurors unknown, in further profecution of the Treafons and Traiterous
Confultations and Agreements aforejaid; afterwards the faid Four and twentieth
day of April, at the Parijh aforefaid, in the County aforefaid, falfly, fubtilly,
advifedly, nialicioufly, devillifhly, and traiteroudy , did fever ally each to the
other engage your felves, and upon the Sacrament Traiteroufly fwear and promife,
to conceal, and not to divulge the faid mofi wicked Treafons, and Traiterous
Compajftngs, Confultations, and Purpofes, aforefaid amongfl your felvei, had
Traiteroudy to kill and murder our faid Soveraign Lord the King, and to in-
troduce the Romilli Religion within this Kingdom of England, and the true
reformed Religion within this Realm, rigjotly, and by the Laws of the fame
Ejlahhfhed, to alter and change : and that you the faid Thomas White other-
wife Whitebread, John F'enwick, William Flarcourt Harnfon, John Ga-
van, Anthony Turner, and James'Corker, and other Falfe Traitors to the Ju-
rors unknown, in further profecution of your faid Treafons and Traiterous in-
tentions and agreements aforefaid, afterwards the faid Four and twentieth day
of April, at the Parifh aforefaid, in the County aforefaid, falfly, fuhtilly, af
vifedly, malicioufly, devilUfly, and Traiteroufly, did prepare, perfwade, excite,
abet, comfort, and counfel, four other Perfons to the Jurors unknown, Subjefis
of our faid Soveraign Lord the King, Traiteroufly our faid Soveraign Lord the
King, to kill and murder, againfl the Duty of your Allegiance, againfi the Peace
of our Soveraign Lord the King, his Crown and Dignity, and againfl the form
of the Statute in that Cafe, made and provided.
How fay'll thou Thomas White alias Whitebread, art thou guilty of this
High Treafbn whereof thou ftandeftindiffed, or not guilty?
Whitebread. My Lord, I defire to fpeak one word; I amadvifed by Council,
and I may, and ought to reprefent it to this Court, for not onely my own life, but
the lives of others of his Majefties Subje(9rs, are concerned in it, That upon the
xpth. of December h&., I was Tryed upon thefamelndidbment, the Jury was
impannell'd and called, I put my felf into the hands of the Jury, andtheEvi-
dence was brought in and examin'd, particularly againfl me, and was found in-
fufficient) fo that the Jury was difinifled without any Verdifb, I humbly fub-
mit my felf to your Lordlhips and this noble Court, whether I may not have
Council in this point of Law, to advife me, whether I may and ought to
plead again the fecond time, for according to Law, I am informed, no man
can be put in jeopardy of his Life the fecond time, for the fame caufe.
L. Ch. Jufl. You fay well Mr. Whitebread.
Whitebread. I fpeak it not for my fake onely, but the fake of the whole Na-
tion, no man fhouJd be Tried twice for the fame caufe, by the fame reafon, a
raanmay beTriedaoor a icq times.
L. Ch. Jufl. You fay well, it is obferved Mr.Whiiebread -, but you muft
know
( 5 )
■kimv, that you were not put in jeopardy of your Life for the fanife-things
for firfl the Jury were difciiarged ot you, it is true, it was fuppofed wlieri
you were indicted, that there would be two Witnefles againffe you^ but
that fell out otherwife, and the Law of the Land requiring two WitnefTes
to prove you guilty of Treafon, it was thought reafonable, flMt you fhould
not be put upon the Jury at all, but you were difcharged, and then you
were in no Jeopardy of your Life.
V/hitehread. Under favour my Lord, I was in Jec^ardy; for I Was
given in charge to the Jury, and 'tis the cafe of Seyety in 51. Eliz. he
was indidted for a Burglary committed the ijl. of Augttfiy and pleaded
to it, and afterwards another Indidrment was prefer'd, and all the Judges
did declare, that he could not be Indidted the fecond time, for the fame
fadf, becaufehe wasin Jeopardy of his life again.
Lord Ch. JuJl. Surely, you were not in Jeopardy, and Lie lliew yoii
how you were not, fuppofe you had pleaded, and the Jury werefworh.
Whitehread. They were fo in my Cafe.
Lord Ch. JuJl. Tis true they were, but fuppofing that prefently up-
on that, fome accident falls out, a Witncfs is taken fick, and be feign to be
carried away, or for any reafonable caufe, it fliould be thought fir by
the Court to difcharge the Jury of it, that they fhould not paft upon
your life, are you in Jeopardy then ?
Lord Ch. JuJl. North. I would have you be fatisfied with reafon,
and the courfe of Law, that other mens lives are under, as well
as yours. The Oath the Jury take, is that they fhall well and truly ff jv
and true deliverance make of fuch Prifoners, as they fliall have in
Charge, the charge of the Jury is not full, till the Court give them
a Charge at the lafi:, after Evidence had, and bccaule there was a
miftake in your Cafe, that the Evidence was not fo full as might be,
the Jury, before ever they confidered concerning you at all, they were
difcharged, and fo you were not in Jeopardy, and I in my ex-
perience know it to be often done, and tis the courfe of Law, the Cfdrks
will tell you tis frequently done here and at other places ; and this is not
the fame Indictment, and it contains further matter , then that you
pleaded to before. And then if you will make this Plea good that you go
upon, you muft alledge a Record, and fliew fome Record to make ir
good, and that cannot be, becaufe there is none, and fo it will fignrfie.
nothing to you, as you have pleaded it.
Whitehread. I defire the Record may be veiwed, it reniains withyou,
I do only prefent this to your Lordihip and the Court, and defire I may
haveCounlel. \
Lord Ch. JuJl. No, not all, there is no entry made of it. f
Whitehread. I defire that Counfel may advife me, for I arriad^^,,
that according to the Law of the Land, I ought not to plead again,'^dild
I hope your Lordfliips will be of Counfel for me.
Lord Ch. JuJl. Look you, Mr. Whitehread^ there is no entry ma:dd
upon it, and the reafon is, becaufe there was no Tryal, and there was
no Tryal, becaufe there was no Condemnation or Acquittal, if there had
been, then you had faid fomething. i ^.
Whitehread. That which I ask is, whether I ought not to be condehuiedi
or acquitted.
Lord Ch. JuJl. No, it is only in the dilcretion of the Court. For if a
C • . jjjjjj
(O
man be indifted for murder, and fome accident fliould happen, (when
the Witnefs come to prove it) that he ihould be taken ill, and fo be carried
away, Ihould the murtherer efcape ?
Whitehread. That is not in my cafe, you may do as you pieafe.
Lord Ch, JuQ. But we Ihew, that it is in the diicretion of the Court
to difcharge the Jury npon fuch accidents, and then tiie party is not in
jeopardy.
V^itelread. I have onely pray'd your Lordftiips difcretion in this.
Lord Ch. Jujl. You ought to plead, and mufh plead.
Lord Ch. jufi. Morth. I fuppofe if any of my Bretheren are of an other
Opinion, then what we have exprefled, they would fay fo.
Court. We are all of your opinion.
Lord Ch. Jufi. All the Judges of England are of the fame Opi- '
(lion.
Mr. Record. Tis the conftant Pradlife,
Lord Ch. JuJl. Tis frequent in all places, it is no new thing.
Whitehread. My Lord I am fatisfied.
Cl. of Cr. Thomas White alias Whitehread.^ art thou guilty of the High
Treafon whereof thou ftandeft indicted, or not guilty ?
Whitehread. Not guilty.
Cl. of Cr. Culprit., How wilt thou be tried ?
Whitehread. By God and my Countrey.
Cl. of Cr. God lend thee a good deliverance. John Femvkk, art thou
guilty of the fame High Treafon, or not guilty ?
Fenxoick. Not guilty.
Cl. of Crown. Culprit, How wilt thou be tried ?
Fenwick. By God and my Countrey.
Cl. of Crown. God fend thee a good deliverance.
Fenwick. I was tried before with Mr. our cafe is the fame,
the onely reafon, why (I prefume) we were not proceeded againit, was,
becaufe the fecond Witnefs declared he had nothing to fay agarnft us, that
was Mr. Bedlow, who faid, as to Mr. Whitehread and Mr. Fenwick , I
have nothing to fay againft them; if he had given the fame Evidence
againft us, as he had done againft the reft, we hadfeeen condemned, and
hadfuffered, andfo I fuppofe we ought to have been difcharged.
Lord Ch. Jufi. No, it was not reafonable you fliiould be difcharged,.
it remains in the difcretion of the Court, not to let a man, that is acculed
of a great and capital Crime efcape, if there be one Witnefs that fwears
exprefly: do you think it reafonable fuch a manlliould go fcotfree, though
there wanted two that the Law requires? You were not in danger, your
lives were not in Jeopardy.
Fenwick. My Lord, we were in the fame danger with thofe Three that
fuCered.
Lord Ch. Jufi. No, we never let the Jury go together to confider
whether you (Were guilty, or not guilty, we did prevent your making
your defence, becaufewe thought it not a fufficient Charge.
Cl. of Crown. William Har court alias Harrifon, how fay'ft thou, art
thou guilty of the High Treafon v/hereof thou ftandeft indidted, or not
guilty .■>
Har court. Not guilty.
. CLofCr. How wilt thou b«? tried
Har court. ByGod and my Countrey,
cUtsf
• (7)
Ci. of Cr. God fend thee d good deliverance. How faiil; thou John
Gavan alias Gaxven^ art thou Guilty of the fame High Treafon, or not
Guilty ?
Gavan. Not Guilty ?
CL of Cr. Culprit^ how wilt thou be Tryed ?
Gavan. By God and my Country.
Cl. of Cr. God fend thee a good deliverance. How faift thou
Anthony Turner thou Guilty of the fame High Treafon , or not
Guilty ?
Turner. Not Guilty.
Cl. of Cr. Culprit., how wilt thou be Try ed ?
Turner. By God and m^ Country.
Cl. of Cr. God fend thee a good deliverance.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Mr. Corker, you have heard the Indi£lment read,
and what it confills of, a Traiterous endeavour to fubvert the Govern-
ment, to Murther the King, to change the Proteftant Religion into
Popery ,• if you have any Witneffes that can be ferviceable to you as
to thefe matters, name who they are, and where they live; if you
cannot, you had as good take your Tryal now, as at another time.
Corker. I not only have no Witneffes ready, but there are fub-
ftantial 'Circumflances, which peradventure may arife, which may in-
duce your Lordfliip to believe me innocent, and therefore I humbly beg,
I may flay fpme ihort time to confult with thofs that are betrer
skill'd in the Law than I am.
Lord Ch. Jufi. What do you mean to have Counfell affigned you ?
Corker. My friends, my Lord.
Lord Ch. 'JuJi. Every man knows his own cafe belt, you have been
bread a Scholar, and fo you cannot be fo ignorant as other men are:
you can tell whether you have any Witneffes that you think are material
for your defence.
Corker. That day of the t^th. of April fpoken of in the Indid:-
ment, I truely and really believe 1 was not^in Town that day; but I
cannot pofitively prove it, becaufe I heard not of it before.
Lord Ch, Jufi. Is there any body that can teflifie where yon were that
day ? Can you name any one ?
Corker. Yes, I believe I can name one, and that is one Alice Gatony
that is now 50 Miles out of Town at TunhridgCy who can prove where
I did go about that time.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Il'e tell you what , if my Brothers wiB, this
woman you fuppofe can fay fomething for you, we will refpite your
Tryal for to day, fend fome body for her, and we will Trie you to
morrow.
Lord Ch. Jufi. North. Or any other Witnefles, for as to this 'Z^th.
day of April it is known to all the world to have been the day of the
Confult. But becaufe you pretend a furprife, I muft tell you, that
Attorney fent you notice with the reft; but becaufe you might be led into
another opinion that the Council did not order it, you have the favour to
be put off till to morrow: Get your Witnefles ready if you can.
Lord Ch. Jufi. If you have any other Witnefles, or defire any order
for their appearance, let us know it.
Corker. I defire I may have liberty to have iliy Tryal put off till
Monday,
Lord
( 8 )
Lord Ch. Jufl. North. No, it cannot be, isthe EiToignDav 's
and then the Commiflion will be out.
Lord Ch. Juft. Call the Jury.
Cl. of Cr. Thomas White alias Whitelread, hold up thy hand. ( and
fo as to the reft ) You the Prifoners at the Bar, thofeinen that you lhall
hear call'd and perfonally appear, are to pafs between our Soveraign Lord
the King and you, upon Tryalof your leveral lives and deaths; it there-
fore you or any of you will challenge them, or any of them, your time is to
fpeakunto them as they come to the Book to be fworn, and before they be
Iworn. Call Sir Philip Matthews.
Whitehread. We Challenge him. My Lord , that there may not
be any further trouble, it is outgeneral Petition, that none of thofe that
were for any of the former Tryals may be of this Jury, they having already
pafs'd their Judgment upon the Evidence they have heard.
Lord Ch. Jujt. You may Challenge them. And therefore (fpeak-
ing to the clerk of the Crown dont take any that were upon the laft Jury for
tins Caufe.
Gavan. Nor any of the former Juries; we do this that we may avoid
giving your Lordlhip any further trouble, becaufe if we fliould ftay upon
particulars we ftiould too much trouble the Court.
Lord Ch. JuJl. North. Look you, I will tell you by the way, you
have the liberty to challenge peremptorily fo many. All we can do, is
to give dirediion to the Clerk, if he do n ot purfue it, we do not know them,
we can't tell, you muft look after that.
Mr. Record. You have the Books, wherein are notes of all their names
by you. ■
Then the Jury that were Sworn, were thefe Twelve.
JURY.
Thomas Harriott.
William Guljion.
Allen Garramy.
Richard Cheney.
John Roberts.
Thomas CaJlj.
Rainsford Wdterhoufe.
Mathevp Bateman.
John Kaine.
Richard White.
Richard Bull, and
Thomas Cox.
cl. of Cr. Cryer, count thefe, Thomas Harriott.
Cryer. One, ^c.
Cl. of Cr. Thomas Cox.
Cryer. Twelve, good men and true, Hand together and hear your
Evidence.
Then
Then the ufual Proclamation for Information was made, and
the Jury -men of Middlefcx Summon d and not Sworn,
were difmifsd till next mornin-g eight of the Clock.
Cl. of Cr. Thomas White alias Whitehready Hold up thy Hand, ( #nd
foto the reft ) You Gentlemen that are Sworri, look upon the Prifoners^
and hearken to their Caufe; they ftand indi<fted by the names of Thomas,
White, 6rc. ( put in the Indictment Mutatis Mutandis^ and againft the
form of the Statute in that cafe made and provided. Upon this In-
didrmeot they have been Arraigned, and thereunto have feverally plead-
edNot Guilty, and for their Tryals have put thetiifelves upon God and
their Country, which Country you are. Your Charge is to En(^uire
whether they, or any of them are Guilty of the High Treafon whereof
they ftand Indided, or not Guilty. If you find them, or ariy of them'
Guilty, you are to enquire what Goods or Chattels, Lands or Tertemtos
they had at the time of the High Treafon committed, or at any time
fince J If you find them or any of them not Guilty, yoU are to Enquire
wiietlrer they fled for it; if you find that they fled for it, you are to
Enquire of their Goods and Chattels as if you had found them Guilty ; If
you find them not Guilty, nor that they nor any of them fled for it, fay
lo and no more, and hear your Evidence.
Then Mr. Belwood , of Counfel for the King in this Caufe^
opend the hidiUment thus:
Mr. Belivood. May it pleafe your Lordfiiip, and you Gentlemefiof the
Jury.
The Prifoners at the Thomas White alias Whitehread, John Fenivicki
William Harcourt alias Harrifon, John Gavan and Anthony Turner , toge-
gether with James Corker, ftand Indided of High Treafon; discharged
m the Indidment, That the aqrl* of .(^/'r//,in the year of the King
that now is, Thefe Perfons, with other Traitors unknown, did purpole
andconfpire to ftir up Sedition and Rebellion : to caufe a miferable
flaughter of the Kings Subjcdsj to depofe the King of his Government,
and bring Him to death; ar^l to change the Government and Religion
by Laws eftablilhed, and to Levy War againft the King. And 'tis fur-
ther charged in the Indidment, that purfuant of this intention of theirs,
and the better to bring it to pafs. They did Aflemble,Confult and agree,
Firft, to bring his Majefty to death, to Murther the King, and thereup-
on to Change the Religion Eftablifiied by Law, to the Superftition
of the Romijh-C\mxc\\, and to Subvert the whole Government; and it
was agreed that Bickering and Grove fhould Murther the King, and
that t\xexehs:QWhitehread,zndi the reif of the Perfons Indifted, fliould
fay a Number of Maffes for the Soul of Pickering ; and Grove , for this
piece of Service, was to have a Sum of Money. And the Indidment
fays further. That thefe Perfons did take the Sacrament to commit this
Treafon with more fecrecy; and that they did like wife Prepare, Excite,
Abet and Counfel Four other unknown Perfons to kill the King at Wind-
for. All thefe Fads arefayd to be done Advifedly, MaUcioully,Traiter-
D oufly
( 10 )
oufly and Deviliflily, and againfl; their Allegiance to the King; To
this they have pleaded Not Guilty; if the Kings Evidence prove it,
you are to find it fo.
And then Sir Crefwel Levinz, one of the Kings Learned
^ Council in the Law, -proved the Charge thus,
Sir Cr. Levinz. May itpleafeyour Lordlhip, and you Gentlemen of
the Jury;
Theje Prifoners at the Bar, are hy Perfuajion Papifls, hy Order and
Degree they are allPriejis. By the Larvof the Land, vizBy a Statute
made the tjth of Eliz. They are all Guilty of Treafon for being Priefls,
and they might be Tryed as fuch, and ought to dye for it; hut that is not
the Fad that they are Charged with, nor will they have the fatisfablion to
fay, that they fuffer for their Religion; No, they are Charged with a Trea-
foH of a blacker and darker Nature. And tho I mufi tell you, that it u now
almoft loo Tears ago jince that Statute was madeagainji Prieftscorning in-
to England, Tet Examples have been very rare, that any of this fort of
Men have dyed for their Religion, within that Queens time, or any of her
Succejfors; yet th^y have dyed upon worfe accompts, and upon fuch accompts
as they are now brought to this Bar for. Such is the difference between Their
Religion and Ours, they have been fuffered to live here under a Law by
which they ought to dye. They kill the Protejiants by Thoujands, without
Law or fufice, witnefs Their Bloody doings at Mirendol, Their Maffacre
at VciXis,Their Barbarous Cruelty in Ireland, fince the year 1640. And
thofe in Piedmont fince ib'^o. But thefe are not the Crimes they are
Charged with , they are not accufed for their Religion, but for the blackeft
and darkeji Treafon that Men can be Charged with. They are Charged
with an endeavour to Murder the King^ under whofe Protection they lived.
This Murther of the King hath been carryed on in the Defign of it, with all
, the Malice and Refolution that can he,from the firfi time that ive can give
you anaccompt of it,which was the z^th of 16"]%. When thefe Per-
'fbns andfeveral others, didfirfl Affemble about other Matters of their own,
and among the reft to Murther the King: there they came to a Refolution
that it fhould be done, and Perfons were appointed to do it, thefe were
Grove and Pickering, who have been Executed for it; They were to, kid the
King in St. s-Park, but it pleafed God, that the Flint of the Pifiol
failed, to which we are more beholding than to them that He efcaped that
time. They were not fatisfied with that, hut they fend down Four Butchers
to Murther him at Windfor, who being difappointed, they fent down Others
after that to Murther him at New-Market; and when all thefe failed, they
had Recourfe to that Treacherous and Vnmanly way of Poyfoning him, and
hired one fo to do, and they did not only intend to Murder the King , but
to make it good by force when they had done. They intended to raife an Ar-
my, they had got Commiffions to fever al Perfons in the Kingdom to command
thefe Forces. They defigned to raife ^0000 Men to maintain the Injufiice
when then they had done it. And that was not all, they had a recourfe to For-
reign affifiance, and depended upon For reign Succours , if they were not
made good at home. Gentlemen, thvy have been difappointed in all thefe
things^ they had an intention further Qas I find it in my brief,} to make a
general Maffacre of all Protefiants here. A thing that they have done,
and
C II )
and voe have heard of abroad, but thhks be to God^ ive never knew it
Bxperimenta/lyathome. And I hope God that hath prejerved us hitherto:^
willpreferve us ftill.
The mercy thefe Men have met with, in being fuffered to live under the
danger of the Statute, by which they might have jufily dyed, hath not pre-
vailed upon or bettered them at all, but been turned into Monflrous Ingra-
titude, and made them mere defperate than other people would have been.
Gentlemen, when all this is opened, I mufl tell you, if thefe Perfons be in-
fiocent, God forbid they fhould faffer, but if they be Guilty , furely they are
not fit to live among Men : And truly if they be Guilty, they do not only
deferve to dye, but to dye a more Cruel and Miferable death than either
the mercy of our Prince, or the Moderation of our Laws hath provided
for fuch Offenders. I fhall detain you no longer, but will call the Witneffes,
and then you Jhall Judg whether they be Guilty or not. And we begin
with Mr. Oates.
Who was Sworn.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Pray what can you fay to thefe Gentlemen ? begin
with Mr. Whitebread firfl.
Lord Ch. Ju(l. Mr. Oates, apply your Evidence as difl;in(SHy as you
can to one Perfon at firft, unlefs where the Matter will take in all, or
more than one of them.
Dr. Oates. My Lord, I have Evidence I defire may be called in, I
fhall have occafion to ufethem.
Gavan. It may be inconvenient. He may inftrud: his Witnefles.
Lord Ch. Jufl. No-rth. No, he fhall not, for we will take care of
that; But name your Witnefles.
Dr. Oates. There is Sir Richard Barker, Mr. Walter a Minifter, Mrs.
Mayo, Philip Page, Mr. William Smith, and one Mr. Clay, Mr. Butler,
Mrs. Sarah Ives. ,
Mr. JuJl. Atkins. Take a Note of their Names, and fend fpr
them.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Now, Mr. Oates, go on with your Evidence. And
when there is occafion to make ufe of thefe Perfons, They fhall
be call'd.
Dr. Oates. The Prifoner at the Bar, Mr. Whitebread, was made and
conflituted Provincial,fo as it was publickly known to us in the Month of
December \3Sk.w2.s iz Month; and he did Order by Vertueof his Authori-
ty one Father George Conyers, to preach in the Sodality of the Englifh
Seminary, on the Holyday which they call St. Thomas of Canterbury fi e.
Thomas of Becketsday, in which there was Order given that Mr. Co-
nyers flrould preach and aflert this Doftrine; That the Oaths of Alle-
giance and Supremacy were Heretical, Antichriftian and Devillifh:
accordingly this Order was Executed, and the Sermon preached.
Mr. Whitebread in the Month of January, wrote Letters (or at leaft-
wife in fehe beginning of February, I will not be pofitive as to the
time, becaufe it does not occur to My memory,) to St. Omers, concern"^
ing the State of Ireland, of which he had an accompt from Arch-Bi-
fhop Talbot , who wrote him word, that there were feveral Thou-
fands of Irifh, that were ready to Rife, when the Blow fliould begi^
ven in England.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Was that in Whitebread's Letter ?
Dr. Oates\
( 12)
Do£tor Yes, my Lord, and Mr. Whitehread did fay. He did
hope it would not be long ere it was given. Now, my Lord, by the word
€ilow, we did ufe to underlland and had inftrudtions to underhand, the
death and murder of the King; and in .the month of January, I think it
was, that he fent over two Jefuits into Ireland, to fee how the hate of
Affairs hood there : in the beginning of April they return'd, of which
we had an Account from Mr. by Letters, wherein there was
mention of a Confult to be held in the month of April old Stile, and
May new Stile ; and according to the Order there given, there met at
that Confult, tire Prifoners at the Bar, Whitehread, Fenmck, Harcourt,
and Turner, and if it pleafe your Lordfliip, all thefe at that Confult
did Sign a Refolve, Whitehread at his Chamber, which was at
Wild'HouJ'e, Mr. Femvick at his Lodgings in Drury-Lane, and Mr. Flar'
court, who had fome at his,Chamber in Duke-Street. But my Lord, I am
to premife this before I go any further, that, the Confult was begun at the
Whitehorje Tavern in the Strand, and there they did agree to fend Father
Gary to be their Procurator at Rome-, and after fome fuch things were
done, they adjourned into feveral Clubs or Colloquies, or what you pleaf^
to call them. One was at Mr. Whitehread's Qhzn^t, another at Ireland's
Chauiber, tha,t is^'Executed, another at Harcmrts, and another at Fen-
wick's-, now here was a Refolve Signed by thefe Prifoners at the Bar, in
which:—:—
Lord Ch. Ju(i. That is four of them, Whitehread, Fenwick, Har^-
court, and Turner.
Dr. Oates. Yes, my Lord.
Lord Ch. JuJl. Was Gavan there ?
Dr. Oates, I dare not, my Lord, affed him with that, becaufe I can-
not be pofitive, but He give you my Evidence againft him by and by.
My Lord, thefe four Gentlemen, with the reh of their Accomplices, did
Sign a Refolve, which was this, Tto Pickering, Grove, Jhould go on
in' their attempt to difpatch the King-, and this they did refolve upon, and
gave it as their Judgment, as a very excellent expedient. My Lord, af-
ter this Confult we did return, (we were 8 or lo that came over} and
may it pleafe your Lordiliips, in the month of June, (I think it was
June } he came to Flanders, in order to vifit his Colledges, being Pro-
vincial of the Jefuits of England : He did flay there (as near as I can
remember) till the loth. of June, and enquiring of the Fathers how
Squares went in Town, among other expreflions he ufed, this was one.
That he hoped to fee the hlack Fools head Whitehall, laid faji enough,
and that if his Brother fould appear to follow in his footjleps, his Tajport
jhould he made too, ( or to that purpofe ; he jhould be difpatch'd. Upon
tlie I ph. of June old Stile, the new Stile, J had orders to come
for England, according to which Order I came, .and did take the Pacquet-
Boat, as near as I can remember, the iph. which was iqt/?. old Stile,
and we landed at Dover the 2yr/). very early in the morning; and when
1 was at Dover, I met with the Prifoner at the Bar, Mr. Fenwick, and he,
my felf, and fome others, did take Coach, and come as &r as Canterbury,
after we had eaten and drunk there, we came fix miles further, where there
was a Box feized by the Searchers of the Town of Borton, and this Box
was brought up by Mr. Fenwick, and direfled to one Blundel, and the
Superfcription was (as near as I can remember) in thefe words. To the
Honourable Richard Blundel Efq^. at London. And this Prifoner at the
Bar,
( >5 )
Bar, Mt. Femvkk aid defire that the Searchers woiild fend it to Klfflj
(it was full of Beads and CrUcifixe^, and fuch things } to the Fountain
Tavern near Charing-Crofs, arid Write a Letter to him, by the name of
Mr. Thompfon^ as that was the name he ufually went by, when lie came to
Dover^ and he had then brought foriie Students there, to feild ovk to
St. Omers.
Lord Ch. Jufl. When went Fenwkk >
Dr. Oates. When I came to Dover, I met Feriwick, hy the name of
Thompfon, going to fend over the Students^ and Fenwick did fay. If
they had fearched his Pockets, as they had fearched his Box^ they had
found fuch Letters, as would have cojl him his life j for faith he; they were
ahout our concern in hand. Then we came up to London, and arrived at
London 17th. of June old Stile, for we lay a part of the way at Sitten-
burgh in the morning, and in the afternoon we came to Darford, and came
to London Monday noon the 17th. old Stile. And in the month of July
there was one Richard Afliby, whofe right name indeed is Thimbleby, hut
he went by the name of Alnby , and this Gentleman did bring over In-
firudions from the Prifoner at the Bar, Mr. Whitebread, ivho was abroad
in Flanders, wherein he was to propofe 10000 I. George Wakeman,
to poifon the King, and feveral other Inflrublions there were, of which I
cannot now give you an account; and withal, that a blank Commifton
Jhould he filld up, and Ordered for Sir John Gage, to he a Military
Officer in the Army, and by that Gentlemane own orders I delivered that
Cornmiffion into Sir John Gage'j own hand, on a Sunday.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Where had you that Cornmiffion from Whitebread*
Dr. Oates. It was Signed and Sealed by him, but it was a blanks
and was to be filfd up.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Where ?
Dr. Oates. It was at Witd-Houfe.
Lord Ch. Jufl. How was it fill'd up ?
Dr. Oates. It was fill'd up by Mr. Whitebread*s Order, it was Signed
and Sealed blank, and he Ordered it to be fill'd u|^, and me to take that
Commiffion, and carry it to Sir John Gage.
Whitebread. Did I Order you ?
Dr. Oates. You Ordered Afhby, I law theLetter, and knew it tp be
Whitebread* s hand.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Was it before he went to St. Omers ?
Dr. Oates. It was while he was at St. Omers.
Whitebread. What day was it ? what hour ?
Dr. It was in
Whitebread. What time of the month ?
Dr. Oates. The beginning or middle.
Whitebread. Are you fure it was in July ?
Dr. Oates. I cannot be pofitive, but I think it to be in July, for
A/hby went to the Bath the latter end of July, or the beginning of Augufi,
and it was before he went.
Whitebread. Who was prefent at the Signing of this Commiffion ?
Dr. Oates. There was prefent at the filling up of this Commiffion,
Mr. Har court, Mr. Afhby, and Mr. Ireland,
FemkL Was dot I there I
- E Dl-
( 'h )
Dr. Dates. I tUink, I fill'd it up. Tie tell you when you were there
prefently. My I^rd , when Ajhhy went away, Fenwick went out of
Town, but returned again prefently to give an accompt how Squares went,
and really I cannot remember where he had been, but as near as I can,
it was in EJfeXy I will not be pofitive in it;. but my Lord, this fame Gen-
tleman Mr. femjick^ with Mr. Harcourt., did advife Mr. Ajhhy^ thataflbon
as he had been at the Bath^ he lliould go and give an accompt to the People
in Soraerfetfhire^ and thereaway, his Circuit would be Hiort and very eafy,
and he did not queftion, but before he came up to Town again, to have
the Gentleman at Whitehal difpatch'd, whom they calfd the Black
Ballard, now I leave that to the Jury to expound, whom they meant by
■it.
■ Fenwkk. What time was that, Sir, pray I you mull time things, or
-you do nothing at all.
Dr. Gates. It was the latter end of July, or the beginning of Auguft^
it was about the time of Afhhys going to the Bath.
Fenivick. Jaft now he laid, it was m the beginning or middle of July.
Dr. Dates. I'le tell your Lordlliip what I laid, that this Ajhhy or
Thimhlehy came from St. Dmerswith thofe Orders or Inltrudlions, either
the beginning of July\ or the middle of July.
•Fenivick. I would not interrupt you Mr. Oates.^ this was feme time
before Mr. Ajhhy to Bath., was it not ?
Dr. Dates. It was about a day before.
Lord. Ch. Jujl'.. He fays a thing that is plain enough : Ajhhy came
over about the beginning or middle of July., with Inllruftions about tire
Commiliion ; and about the latter end of July, or beginning of Augujl,
as he remembers, this advife was given.
Dr. Dates. And fo we are arrived at the Affairs in Augujl, which refle(5ls
upon thefe Gentlemen ; but now I mull fpeak a word to this Gentleman
Mr. Gavan, the Prifoner at the Bar, whom when I faw come into the
Lobby, he had gotten on a Periwig; fo there was one asked me, whether
J knew him? I know him now, but truly then I did not well know him,
becaufe he was under that Mask, and I could not fay any thing againft
him then, becaufe he being .under an ill favoured Periwig, and being a
man that I knew had a good head of. hair of his own, I did not well un-
derlland the myilery of it, and fo fpared my Evidence at that time, from
informing the Council againll himj but the Prifoner .at the Bar came by
the name of Gavan, and we ufed to call him by the name of Father Ga-
"jan : And this Gentleman did in the month of June write Letters
Gavan. What year ?
Di^. Dates. In the year 1678. and did give the Fathers at £ Wo//, an
accompt how affairs Hood in St afford (hire, and Shropjhire, and how dili-
gent one Father Bver's was to manage affairs in thofe Countreys.
Gavan. From whence were thofe Letters fent ?
Dr. Dates. There was only the day of the month, you know it is not*
thecuftomto Datethe place. When I faw the Letter firll, I. did not know
it was his hand, I took it upon Report; but I will tell the Jury by and
by, how I came to know it was his hand: As near as I can remember,
it was in the month of July, ( it was July or Augujl^ this Gentleman
came to Town, and I faw this Gentleipan at Mr./re/Ws Chamber.
Gavan.
_ ( i5 )
■Cavan. What time of the month?
Dr. Oates. It was in 1678. as near as I can guels.
fjavan. Upon my Salvation I am as innocent as a child unborn.
Lord Ch. J aft. North.. By this means you may put out any Witiiefi
in the world, by interrupting of them. When the Witnefs hath done his
Teftimony, you may ask him any Qi^eftions toafcertainthetime orany
thing; but you mult not interrupt him till he hath done.
Dr. Oates. In the latter part of July I think it was, but it was as I
remember while Mr. Aftbhy was in Town, I met him at Mr. Ireland's
Chamber, for he was a faying he would go fee Father Ajhhy before he
went out of Town, and he gave fuch an account to Father Ireland of the
affairs in Staffordjhire and Shrop/hire^ as he had given in the Letters be-
fore; but to prove his hand, he did draw a Bill upon one Sir William An-
drevos in Eftex , for the payment of fome mony of fome little fucking
Priefls, that were ftroleing up and down the Country. I faw him write
it, and it was the fame hand with that Letter.
Gavan. What did I write ?
Lord Ch. Juft. You drew a Bill upon fucha perfon, and he names him.
Dr. Oates. We arenowcometo
Lord Ch. Juft. But you fay he difcourfed about the fame things with
Ireland, that he had wrote in the Letter.
Dr. Oates. Yes my Lord.
Cavan. And what were thofe fame things ?
Dr. Oates. Why, how the Affairs flood in Staffordjhire and Shrop-
Jhire, how my Lord Stafford was very diligent. I defire to be excufed
as to that, becaufe it will diminifli my Evidence in another part of it:
He tell you part of what was then difcourfed of.
Gavan. My Lord, he is fworn to fpeak all the truth.
Lord Ch. Juft. You muft fpeak the whole truth, as far as it concerns
any of thefe perfons.
Dr. Oates. He gave an account how profperousthings were in thofe
Countrys, and did fay, that there was at leaft two or three thoufand
pounds that would be ready in that Country, for the carrying on the
Defign, I think it was three, but it was betwixt two and three. Now
my Lord we are arrived to our bufinefs in Auguft, about the izth. of
Auguft SLsm^it as I remember; but it was between the and the itth.
therein lam pofitive; Ireland, which is executed, took his leave of us, as
if he were to go to St. Omers.
Lord Ch. Juft,f Where did he take his leave ?
Dr. Oates. At his Chamber in Ruffel-Street. Ireland went out of
Town, and Fenwick by that means, was to be Treafurer and Procurator
to the Society altogether. He had that employ afterward upon him during
his abfence, let Mr. Ireland go whither he would. And the tift. of
Auguft , which as near as I remember fell upon a Wednefday ,
Mr. Femvick and Mr. Harcourt were met together at Wildhoufe, and
fome other Fathers, as Father Kalnes, and one Father Blundell, and fome
other Fathers whom I cannot remember.
Gavan. Was I there, pray Sir.^
Dr. Oates. No, no Sir, I am not totalktoyouflill, I am to fpeak to
the Court.
Lord Ch. Juft. North. We would recomniend to you, to name
Perfons when you fpeak of them.
Dr. Oatesi
(lO
- Dr. Dates. Where I have occafion I will name them, my Lord, Nfn
Femvkk and Harcourt were together at W'ddhoufe^ and Mr. Kaines and
Mr. Blundel.^ and as near as I remember, Mr. Langworth was there, but
I wont be pofitive. And there lay before them at Wildhoufe Fourfcore
Pounds^ the moft of that money was which was to be paid to the
four Irijh Ruffians that were to Murther the King at Wtndfor. After
it was agreed that they Ihould do it, and Coleman who was executed came
thither^ and gave the Meflenger a Guiney to expedite the Journey. We
drev/ off from Wildhoufe, and went to Mr. Harcourds Chamber, and
becaufo Mr. Hanourt had there left his Papers that were to be fent down
to Wtndfor., there he paid the Melienger the money. And that Gentle-
man was prefent there, Mr. Femvkk, and this is another part of Auguffs
bufinefs. No fooner was this Meffenger difpatch'd, but within a day af-
ter or a day before; but it was a day after, as near as I can remember,
there was a Confult held at the Benedictine's Convent, at which Mr.
Fenmck was prefent and Mr. Harcourt, and there they had fome more
Irifh news from the Jrijh Arch-Bilhop Talbot, who did give an account
of the Irifh affairs, how they did confpire the death of the Duke of Ormond;
and defired to know how af&irs went in England, and defired fome Com-
miffions might be fent over to fome particular perfons, there to jraife Forces
for the carrying on of the Defign, and fome mony to be tranfmitted to
them. And Mr. Fenmck did bring the Commiffions from Wildhoufe
( as near as I remember) but he did bring them with him, and fent
them down by a fpecial Meflenger to Chejler, and fome Letters by the
Poll. That of the Poll I know of my own knowledge, but that of the
fpecial Meflenger I had only from his own mouth. My Lord, from the
of Augufl, as near as I remember it fell of a Saturday, Bartholomew day
it was, but whether it fell of a Saturday I cannot be pofitive, but if the
Court pleafe to inform themfelves of it by their Almanacks,' they
may.
Lord Ch. Jufl. There is no great matter in that I fuppofe.
Dr. Outes. But this Gentleman Mr. Fenwkk, did deliver me fome
money for my neceflary incident charges, but did admonilh me to procure
fome Maffes to be laid for a profperous fuccels upon the Defign. Upon
the xph. day, I faw Mr. in the afternoon at his Chamber, and
he was to go on the 26//^. day, the next day to St. Omers, and to carry
8 or 10 Students to go there to ftudy humanity : and this is the account I
have to give to Mr. Fenwkk. For after I took my leave of him here, I law
him no more till he was apprehended.
Lord Ch. Jufl. This was about the 26/;!'. ok Augufl,•w^sltnotl
Dr. Gates. Yes my Lord, it was the 26//^. ok Augufl.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Well, go on Sir.
Dr. Gates. The ifl. or xd. of September we receiv'd a Letter ( in
the beginning it was) from Mr. Whitehread, and this Letter they did fay
was a Forein Letter, and yet it paid but two pence, by which I did con-
elude that Mr. Whitehread was come into England, and lay fome where
privately, or was not yet come to Town. On the third of September I
went to Mr. Whitehread's Chamber (at night) but he being at fupper
was not to be fpoken with; but when he faw me the next morning, he
did revile me and ftrike me, and asked me with what face I could
look upon him , feeing I had dealt fo Treacheroufly with them.
Now
( 17 )
Now after that I had inquired in what refpeift^ he anfvvered inthedifco-
vering of thebufmels , for there was a Qentleman that went to the King
in this Buftnefs, to whom I had communicated much of my Informa-
tion hyY)i:.Ton(iue. This Gentleman had the fame Coloured Cloaths
that I had , and fo they not being able to give an Accom^ of the
Name of the Perfon, gave only an Accompt of the Habit he was in, and
therefore they Charged me with it. After I had juftified my felf as well as
I could, Mr. Whltebread did lliew me a Letter which came from one
Beddingjield alias Bennimfield^ which did Ihew the Plot was difcovered,
and they were like to be undone , if it had not been for the 5 Letters
that were fent down to Windfor and intercepted, which made all to be
looked upon as Counterfeit; after that, I juftified my felf as well as
I could. He told me he would be friends with me, provided I would
give an Accompt of the Party, and of the Minifter that went with him.
And this is what I have tofay againft Mr. iV/dfebread, and thePrifoners
•at the Bar, but only this; becaufe Sir George Wakeman did not accept
of 100001. that was propofed to liim to Poyfon the King, this Gen-
tlenian offered that 5000 /. more fliould be added.
Lord Ch. Juft. Which Gentleman?
Dr. Oates. Mr. Whitehread. And ij'ooo/. was accepted, and when
it was accepted , Whitehread did greatly rcjoyce that the Mony was ac-
cepted to Poyfon the King.
Whitehread. Did I tell you fo ?
Dr. Oates. No, there was a Letter told me fo, but you were in
Flanders then.
Sir Cr. Levins. What have you to fay againft Mr. Turner >
Dr. Oates. I fpeakastohis being at the Confultin April^ and fign-
ing the Refoive of the Death of the King.
Lord Ch. Juji. Was Mr. Gavan at that Con fult the 24//? of April?
Dr. Oates. Mr. Gavan was Summoned to that Confult, but among
40 Men I cannot particularly fay he was there, but I faw his Name fign-
ed as to the Kingh Death , but I cannot fay I faw his Perfon.
Lord Ch. Jujl. Can you fay you faw his Hand Writing ?
Dr. Oates. I do believe it was his.
Lord Ch. Jujl. Did you ever fee any Writing of his, but when he
figned the Bill of Exchange ?
Dr. Oates. My Lord, I never faw him Write but that time. It was
an ill Pen as it feemcd that he Writ his Name with to the Confult,
and I did not take fo particular Notice of the being of his Name there,
till we faw the Inftruftions in July^ and then I did look over the Con-
fult particularly.
Lord Ch. JuJl. But I fay, Did you ever fee his Hand Writing before
he Writ the Bill ?
Dr. Oates. My Lord, I never faw his Hand but that time.
Lord Ch. Jajl. And That by your comparing was like the Hand
of the Letter about Staffordjhiret
Dr. Oates. By that I prove the Letter to be Written from him. It
was like it, and was all as one.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Was it like the Hand that was to the Confult ?
Dr. Oates. That I cannot fay.
Lord Ch. Jufl. I thought you had fayd he confefs'd the Contents of
the Letter, when he came out of Stafferdjhire ?
F Dr. Oates
(i8).
Dr. Dates. I do fay this of Mr. Gavan , that he wrote fuch a Let-
ter, and when he came to Town he did give an accompt of all the
paflages that t.he Letter did contain, which w as concerning the raifing
of Moriy in Staffordjhire., and the Parts he was concerned in: and this
was the Accompt he gave.
Lord Ch. Dr. Oat^es, you pofitively fay, that Whitehread^Fen-
wick and Harcourt were there ?
Dr. Gates. Yes, my Lord, for Mr. Whit eh re ad was Provincial and
Prefident of the Aflembly.
Sir Cr. Levinz. And Turner was there ?
Dt. Gates. Yes, he was.
Sir Cr. Levinz. Dr. Oates^ what was that Mony rais'd for ?
Dr. Gates. They fayd it was for the carrying onof the Delign.
Lord Ch. JuJl. And what Defign was that t
Dr. Gates. Our Defign. And that was the Subverfion of the Go-
vernment, and Deftrudion of the King,
Lord Ch. Juji. Now if you pleafe you may ask him any Q^ftioa.
Gavan. Mr. Oates^ you fay you faw my Name to a Letter for the
taking up of Money. To whom was that Letter Writ.'^
Dr. Gates. There was a Letter from you to Mr. Ireland. And he did
receive it by the hands of Grove.
Gavan. Where was that Money to be taken up >
Dr. Gates. My Lord, I fay, that Letter was recived by Grove
who is out of the way, and can't prove it, and was delivered to Ire^
land.
Lord Ch. fujl. I perceive your memory is not Good.
Gavan. I perceive his memory is very Good.
Dr. Gates. This Letter did give an Account of the bufinefs of Staf-
fordpnre ^ and the particulars of that Mr. Gavan did afterwards, give an
Accompt of by word of mouth, and fome other things not fit to be
named.
Gavan. Pray, where was it Sir, that I gave an account of it, in
London^ or in the Country ?
Dr. Gates. In London.
Gavan. In what Month.''
Dr. Gates. In July it was.
Gavan. What part of July ?
Dr. Gates. It was when Mr. .Ajhhy was in Town, the beginning or
middle.
Gavan. Jufl: now you faid it was in the latter end.
Dr. Gates. My Lord, I beg this favor, that if the Prifoners at the
Bar ask any Queftions, they may be propofedtothe Court, for they are
nimble in their Queftions, and do alittle abufe the Evidence. They put
things upon them that they never fay.
Mr. Juft. Pemherton. Propofe your Queftions to the Bench, that you
would have asked.
Gavan. I will do fo, my Lord, in whofe Honour I have more confi-
dence than in whatfoever Mr. Gates fays or Swears.
Lord Ch. JuJl. But he tells you who you drew your Bill of Exchange
upon, and that was ^ve William Andrews.
Lord Ch. JuJl. North. Don 't give the King's Witnefies ill words.
Lord Ch. JuJl. Have you any more to ask, any of you.''
Whitehread. Yes, my Lord. Lord.
(^9)
Lord Ch. JuJl. See if you can catch him, he gim you a long and eX'^
aft accompt as can be given by any man in England^ and pray dired
your felf, Mr, Whitehread, to the Court.
Whitehead. He fays he was here in April^ and at the Confultj now I
dcfire to know, how long before that time were you and I acquainted >
Dr. Oates. Why, before that time I never faw Mr. Whitehread*^
face.
Whitehread. What impioyment were you to have > • arid what re-
ward '
Dr. Oates. When I came away from St. Omers.^ I was to attend the
ftiotiori of the Fathers at your Chamber, and to carry the Refolve from
Chamber to Chamber, where the Fathers were refpeftively met.
Fenwick. Was not you atthe ^F2'/re-/f(?r/e-Tavern.'='
TOr. Gates.' Yes, I was there.
Fenwick. Did you Dine there
Dr. Oates. No, our flay was fliort there.
Fenwick. How long did you flay in Town
Dr. Oates. Truly I can't tell you exaftly, but from the time 1; cam6
into England^ to the time I went out again, was under Twenty days.
Fenwick. Who were they that came over with you t Name the
Parties.
Dr. Oates. I will tell you who they were; but it's fo fong fince, I can't
exaftly remember.
Fetiwick. You need not trouble your memory, you have them in your
Narrative.
Dr. Oates. My Lord,there was Father Williams ths Reftor oiWoftoht
the Reftor of Leige., Sir John Warner , Sir Thomas Prejlon , and fomd
others.
Whitehread. Was not Mr. Nevil there e
Dr. Oates. I believe he was, it is like he might be there.
Whitehread. Was not Sir Robert Brett there i
Dr. Oates. I believe he might.
P^Fhitehread. You have faid fo in your Narrative.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Perhaps a man will venture to Write more than he
will Swear; not that he does Write what he docs not believe, but that
he knows he ought to be more cautious in his Oath, than in his Affir-
mation.
Fenwick. My Lord, with your Lordfliips favor, it is upon Oath.
Lord Ch. Jufi. North. Fenwick^ you are in a Court of Law, and we
muft go according to the Law, if you will prove any Contradiftion in
him to his Oath, you mufl bring the Perfons here that faw him take
the Oath; and you mufl not think to take a Pamphlet for Evidence.
Fenwick. It was Sworn before a Juftice of Peace, and will not, I fup-
pofe, be denied, and therefore he mufl make his Evidence agree with it,
being part of his Narrative.
Gavan. You fpeak of one thing in Augujly and of another in
which Month faw you me in ?
Dr. Oates. I told you I faw you in Town mjulyy and when Father
AJhhy or Thimhlehy was in Town. And you faid you would go and fee
him.
JuJi. Pemherton. He fays it was in July, and that's enough.
Gavan. What time in July
Dr. Oatesy
( 20 )
D. Gates. Ic was towards the middle or latter end.
Gavan. Was it before Mr. went to the Bath?
Dr. Gates. It was fo.
Lor<^ Ch. Jujl. He fays he faw you in Town when Afhiy was in
Town, which was towards the latter end dijuly., or beginning ot Au-
gujl. He cannot tellexadbly whether, but politively he fays before Mr.
Aphy went to the Bath.
Lord Ch. Jujl. North. Well, to fatisfy you, we will ask Mr. Gates
the Quellion again. Can you recollebt whether it was the middle or
latter end of July ?
D. Gates. My Lord , as near as T can remember, it was about the
middle of July that Afhhy amiQ to Town, and be did not flay in Town
above a Fortnight. And it was whilfl he was in Town, and defigned to
go down to the Bath , That this Gentleman came to Town, and gave
accompt of the particulars of that Letter.
Lord ch. JuP. North.- You may ask him any Qaeflions, but I
would have you obferve what accompt he gives , That about the mid-
die of July, Aphy came to Town, that he flay'd in Town about a
Fortnight as he believes, that during that time, you came to Town,
and then was this Difcourfe.
Dr. Gates. During that time I faw him in Town, but I know not
exablly when it 'was.
Gavan. My Lord, I would ask him one Queftion, the thing that is
brought againfl me, is this. He fays Mr. Ajhby came to Town in the
middle of July; that he flay'd in Town a Fortnight; that while he was
there I came to Town and had fuch Difcourfe. Now my Lord, I de-
fire to know whether it was the firfl week or lafl week that Aphy was
in Town that he faw me.
Lord ch. Jujl. If he can Anfwer it, let him.
• Dr. Gates. My Lord, I cannot.
Lord Ch. Jujl. He tell's you he cannot Charge his memory
with it.
Dr.' Gates. No, my Lord, nor will not.
Lord Ch. JuP. Really I believe there is fcarce one in all this Com-
pany able to give an accompt of a particular time of a paflage fo
long ago.
Gavan. No doubt he hath an excellent memory..
Lord Ch. JuP. And if he had not fome memorials of this, he could
not do it. And tho he hath memorials of the mofl Eminent palTages,
yet we can't fuppofe he hath of all Circumflances.
Gavan But this is the fubflance; and your Lordlhip may conceive
that not without Reafon I urge it; for if Mr. Aphy came to Town
the beginning of July., and flay'd but a Fortnight in Town , and I came
to Town while he was here, it muft be in one of the Two lafl Weeks.
Now I would have it affertain'd, becaufe I may difprove it in one Week
or in the other.
Lord Ch. JuP. 'Tis true you did not amifs in asking the Queftion,
if he were able to Anfwer it; but if it be either, 'tis enough to prove
you Guilty.
Gavan.
(21 )
Gavan. Pray was it oiiiy one tirtie or diverfc) that you faw me in Loyff
donl
Dr. Oates. It was but brie day^ but as near as I remember, I faw
you twice that day: and lie tell it you by a particular Circumftancej
that I faw you in the afternoon when you were a little illilh, and there
was a Cordial brought to you by an Apothecary, that went by the name
of Walpoole.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Here is memory tefrefli'd by a Circumftance you feCo
Whither was it brought to him ?
Dr. Oates. To//■^/<?«<r/'s Chamber*
Gavan. Who brought it, Sir?
Lord Ch, jufi. An Apothecary he fays, whofe name was IValpoole.
GaVaM. My Lord, I never faw Walpoole in all my life.
Lord Ch. Jufi. I believe he is known well enough, fuch an one as
Walpoole the Apothecary; But ask what queflions you will.
Dr. Oates. I cannot lay whether it was Walpoole himfelf, or his mart
that brought it.
Gavan. I do as truly believe there is a God, and Heaven, and an Hell,
as any one here does, as I hope for Salvation, as I hope to fee God in Hea-
ven, I never faw Mr. Oates before the day in January,^ when he fays I
had the Periwig on, and he did not know me: And as for July^ i|i|<;all
God to Witnels, I never faw him then.
Lord Ch. Jufi.. You were in Town in July ?
Gavan. Upon my Salvation I was not in
Lord Ch. Jufi. You'l prove that by and by.
Femvick. I hope, my Lord, we may ask him any queftions irt the Coui t,
of our Evidence, to make things clear ?
Lord Ch. Jufi. Yes, you may.
Turner. Did you ever fee me in all your life, before you faw me at
Whitehall ?
. Dr. Oates. You were then in a difguifed Habit, and a nafty Periwig,
and I did not know you fo well. "
Turner. ziWhitehally was pleafed to tell me, I went by another
name.
Dr. Oates. I don't value names, but your Perfon: You are the man.
Lord Ch. Jufi. You are the man he fays.
Turner. Did you feeme atthcConfult ?
Dr. Oates. I faw the man that fpeaks to me.
• Turner. Who were there ? and how many were prefent ?
• Dr. Oates. There were about 40. or 50.
Lord Ch. Jufi. When you have but one name apiece, then he can hit
it right, but when you have fo many names, then you are too hard for
^ him.
Turner. Did you fee me at the Whitehorfe. ?
Dr. Oates. That I will not fay; for when they were in leflcr Clubs
pr Colloquies, I was fure of better acquaintance with them.
, Where was itiyou faw nie ? -^
Dr. Oates. At Mr. Femvkks Chamber.
Turner^ At you faid; it was at
Dr. Oates. My Lord, becaufe the chiefeft part of the Confult fat at
Wild-ffoufej we call'd it all, The Confult at WHd-Houfie^
G
Lord
( 22 )
Lord Ch. jujl. I fee your defence will be little elfe but captioufne/s^
to difprove him m Circumftances of time, place, perfons, or numbers',-
now all thefe are but little matters to the Subitarice : Tis true, Mr. White-
h ready if you can prove you were not at that place at that time, it will
do you great Service. Have you any thing more to fay to him ?
Lord Ch. Jufi. North. I hope your Witnefs are in readinelTes, that you
were fpeaking of, to fortify your Teftimony ?
Dr. Oates. Yes, my Lord, they are, I defire they may be heard.
Lord Ch. JuJl. By and by, when occafion is.
Jury. My Lord, I defire he may be asked one Queftion.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Mr. Garrawajy what Qj^ellion would you ask him ?
Jury. Where it was that he faw Mr. Turner at the Confult.
Dr. Oates. I faw him at Fenwkks Chamber, where he was a Member
of the Confult; and being fo, I faw him Sign the Refolve of the Kings
death. :
Lord Ch. Jufl. Did you fee him ?
Dr. Oates. Yes, I did.
Sir Cref. Levins. Then we defire Mr. Dugdale may be Sworn^ (which
was done.) Come, Mr. 'Dugdale, pray will you tell my Lord and the Jury,
jWhat you,know concerning Whitehread^ and Harcourtt Firft about
Whitehread.
Mr. Dugdale. My Lord, I have very little acquaintance with the
man, I have leen him at Tixally with myold Lady AJlon.
Lord Ch. Jufi. When ?
Mr. Dugdale. I dare not fpcak the time, but appeal to him himfelf,
about the truth of it.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Is it years ago ? '
Mr. Dugdale. It is two or three years ago.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Well, what canyou fay againft him ? . ..
Mr. Dugdale. Mr. Whitehread did write a Letter that I faw under
his own hand, inclofed'in a Letter from Mr. Groves., to Mr. £-
tverSy wherein he gave Mr. Ewers a caution, to be lure to choole thofe
that were very trufty, it was no rtiatter whether they were Gentlemen or
no, fo they would be but flout and couragious: This was the purport of
the Letter, I cannot fay the words ^xadly, but:that he'fbould choofe thofe
that were hardy and defperate, or to that purpofe. .
Lord Ch. Jufi. Pray where was it .you faw that Letter: 2 .
Mr. Dugdale. At Tixall. jJ :
Lord Ch. Jufi. How came you to fee it ? /
Mr. Dugdale. Becaufe all the Letters Were direfted .to me, that came
to Mr. Ewers inclofed in Mr. Grove's Letters : And fol intercepted the
Letter, and read it. .
Lord Ch. Jufi. What was Mr. 'Ewers ?
Mr. Dugdale. A Jefuit, my Confeffor; for I was entertained by
Mr. Gavan to be in the confpiracy of the'Kings death, and fo I was
by feveral others. ... '
Lord Ch. Jufi. You were not acquainted with Mr. hand,
were you? . v
Mr. Dugdale. ^My Lord, I onely. cahie acquainted with Mr. White-
IreadslxanAy by fdeinghim write a^^erat /iw*?/, which he delivered
to me to fend. '
Lord
23 3
Lord Ch. fuji. I pray let me underfland you: You fay that Mr. Whit^
head did write a Letter to Mr. Ewers^ inclofed in one fromMn Grove'
wherein he advifed that he lliould entertain iufty ftout fellows, and no
matter whether they were Gentlemen, or to that efieft ; Now I ask youj
how you do know that v/zsWhitehread'hhznd^ or was it his name only
that was to it ?
Mr. Dugdale. My Lord, I faw his name at it.
Lord Ch. Jufi. When you faw that Letter, had you ever feen his hand
before
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, my Lord, I faw it to another Letter which I faw
him write.
Lord Ch. Ju(l. And that was like the hand in the Letter to Ewers, wa^
it?
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, I do almoft pofitively Swear it was the fame hand.
Lord ch. Ju(l. But what fay you to Gavan and Evers ?
Mr. Dugdale. There were feveral Confultations in Mr. Ewers's Cham-
ber, my own, and at Bofcohel^ and feveral other Places, Mr. Gavan might
be fo ingenuous to confefs it.
Lord Ch. Baron. What were thofe Confultations for ?
Mr. Dugdale. For confpiring the Kings death, and introducing of
Popery, Mr. GaViSfw was chiefly made ufe of, as a good Orator and Learn-
ed man, and a good Scholar to perfwade People into thedeflgn, this I
Ipeak as to thefe perfons.
Lord Ch. Jufl. Pray go on Sir, for you lhall have a full Scope, for
y^ou never were a Witnelsin any of the Trials before: and you may take
your own way, and you lhall be heard, you fliallnot be interrupted j for
what you fay, is very confiderable.
Mr. Dugdale. One meeting I think was in September lafl, it was at
Tixal^ and there was my Lord Stafford, and feveral others.
Lord Ch. Juft. Was Gavan there ?
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, Mr. Gavan was there, I fuppofe he will not deny it,
Mr. Ju(i. P ember ton. Don't rely upon that, he will deny it, you may be
fure, go on. You fay he was there ?
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, and that was to carry on the Defign : And I was
by to hear. I think Mr. Ireland was in the Countrey then, there was
you, (fpeakingtoMr. Gavan') Mr. Peters, Mr. Lew/on, and Mr. Ewers,
at this Conlult, and there was another, my Lord Stafford^ and others that
I cannot now name.
Gavan. What time?
Mr. Dugdale. It was in September^
Gavan. What day ?
Mx. Dugdale. \t\)vdkitvJ2iSvi.September.
Lord Ch. Juft. What was that ConfultandConfpiracy about, in Ihort^
Mr. Dugdale. It was for the introducing of Popery, and taking away
the Life-of the King, I being a Perfon chofen out for that purpofe, and
was to be fent to London by Mr. Harcourt, to be under the tuition of
'Mr. Parfons.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Pray who mentioned this ? was that the firft time that
•ever they difcourfed of the death of the King ?
Mr. Dugdale. No, my Lord, it was two years ago, but I fpeak of'4
fliortertime.
Lord Ch. Juff Who began the difcourfe | ;
- - ^ Mr. DugLak,
,: _ (24)
Mr. DugdaU. , Mr. Gavan often difcourfed of it, and incouraged me
to it.
Lard Ch. Jufi. Who broke it firft to yon ? who feemed that Prin-
cipal man ?
Mr. JLugdale. Ewers and Gavan.
Lord Ch. Jufi. By the Oath that you have taken, repeat it once
more, for this is new to Us.
Gavan. 'Tis fo to me too upon my Soul, for upon my Confcience I
never heard of it before. '
Lord Ch. Jufi. 'Tis a mighty Confirmation of what was before
Difcovered.
Mr. Dugdak. But I fpeak to Mr. Gavan , and appeal to Him him-
felf.
Gavan. Look upon me with Confidence, if you can.
Mr. Jufi. Pemlerton. Youmuftnot threaten the King's Witnefies.
Mp. Dugdale. Mr. Gavan., I defire you to inforrh the Lords, and all
here prefenc, whether I was not under your Tuition And whether you
knew any un;uft Adlion by me
Gavan. You were never under hiy Tuition.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Oid you ever know him .•>
Gavan. Yes, my Lord, he ufedto comefomtimes where I was, and
fo we were acquainted: and I lived within 11 mile of Tixal^ my Lord
AfionSy and having acquaintance in that Family, Mr. Ewers y whom I
know very well,! ufedto come there- fometimes, but I never was in his
Chamber in my life. In what Room of my Lord Afions houfe was tnis
Dilcourfe >
Mr. Dugdale. Some of it was in the little Parlour,, and fome in
Mr. Ewers Chamber.
Gavan. Were any prefent there And who were they .■>
Mr. Dugdale. I have told you there was Mr. Ewers, and Mr. Lewjon,
and Mr. Petre 'Sy and fome others; and. for a further Confirmation of
this, That Mr. Gavan may know that Ihad a great Zeal for him, and
that they did love me well, I gave them an Eftate, or elfe I believe
they would not have trufted me fo well as they did. I gave them 400 /.
to pray for my Soul, and for the carrying on of this Defign, and when
they told me they doubted they lliould want money, I promifod them
100/. more for the carrying on the Work. Upon which Mr. Gawan
promifed me that I lliould beCanoniz'd for a Saint.
Mr Jufi. iPemherton. 'M.r. Gavan himfelf.'* .v
'Mr. Dugdale. Yes, my .Lord. A. "
Mr. Belwood. What do you know of any Forreign Aflifl;ance.-»
Lord Ch. Jufi. I would feign have all the World hear this; pray
what was Difcourfed in the Parlour in my Lord Afions. houfe,and in
Ewer s Chamber ?
Mr. Dugdale. It was about taking away the King's life , i and Intro-
ducing the Popijh Religion. - —
Lord Ch. Jufi. By the Oath you have taken, was that their Di-
fcourfe > . "0
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, my Lord, They were contriving how to kill the
King and Introduce Popery. ^ c.
Sir Cr. Levins. Pray, have you heard any Difcourfe of an Army, or
about making aMaflacrc? v
Mr. Dugdale^
(^5) '
Mr.Dugdale. It was fpoken in my hearing, and there was Tome dif^
courle why they (hould expeft Forces from Bejond ^e/?,and this Gentleman
faid (^meamng Mr.Gz.\3ii\') though they Beyond the Seas had Troubles
enough upon themfelves, yet if we could effe6tit, Men and Money would
not be wanting. I will add nothing more than the Truth in what I
fay.
L.C. J. You deliver your Teftimony like a fober modeftMan upon my
word.
Sir Chr. L&vins. What fay you as to a Maffacre >
Mr. Dugdale. My Lord,I have at fbme Confultations heard {peak of it,
but the chief thing that they aimed at was firft,there was a Letter that cariie
out of and came through Mr. H<«rcf«rfs hands, and fb came down
into the Country, to prove that it was the Opinion of them at Park ^ and
Omers^ to fling all this upon the Presbyterians, that is, the Death of the
King 5 That if any thing of that nature fhould happen, they fhould be
ready to give the firft Alarm, and give out, That it was thofe Still King'
killing Presbyterians, ihzthdid done ihtYdiQc: And fo they thought they
fhould eafily have brought in the Protejiants into their Company, to re-
venge themfelves of the Presbyterians.
L. C. J. It was pretty Advice indeed,to have it firft laid on the Presby-
ierians, that they might get Protejiants to join and cut them off, and then
their own Throats ftiould be cut.
Mr, Dugdale. And then my Lord, there was to be a Maffacre, and if
any did efcape, that they could not be fure of were Papijis, they were to
have an Army to cut them off.
Mr. Belwood. Did he ever ufe any Arguments to you, to prove the
Lawfulnels of the Defign ?
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, my Lord, he hath, and fhewed me feveral Examples
for confirming me in it.
L.C.J. What, for killing the King?
Mr. Dugdale. For the killing of any, to introduce their own Re-
ligion.
Mr. Belwood. Pray, will you natlle fome.
Mr. Dugdale. He endeavoured to prove it by Scripture, I can't now
call the Text to mind 5 but it was to fhew, how it was lawful and good
to deftroy any for the advantage of their Religion, and then he fhew'd the
Example of Father Garneft. How feveral of his Reliques being Beyond
Sea, great Miracles had been done by them.
L. C. J. And fo now there is by Coleman too.
Sir Chr. Levins. What Letters have you received from Mr. Har'
court ?
Mr. Dugdale. I have received feveral Pacquets of Letters from feveral
perfons Beyond Seas, which were, by hislnftrudfion, communicated by Mr.
Grove,to Mr. which Letters did contain Treafon in them, for the
introducing of Popery, and killing and deftroying the King.
L. C. J. How can you tell that >
Mr. Dugdale. Mr. Harcourt hath given it under his own hand, and I
have intercepted the Letters, and read them.
L. C. J. You were acquainted with the hand,
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, my Lord.
L. C. J. You read the Letters?
H Mr. Di^*
/
(2^)
Mr, Dugdale. Yes^, my Lord, I did.
L. C. J. How many Letters have you in tercepted} Have you inter-
ccpted Twenty ?
Air. Dugdale. Yes, ICO my Lord? Mr. Harcourt was the firft that
gave intelligence into the Countrey (as I know of) of the death of
Sir Eidmondbury Godfrey.
Sir Cr. Levins. Tell when it was given and how.
Air. Dugdale. I have made it out already upon Oath , and I have
VVitneffes to prove it.
sir Cr. Levins. Pray Sir tell it now.
■ Mr. Dugdale. It was direfted to Mr. Emrs, and it was three days
before he was found, for it was received on the Monday, and he, as it
is proved, was killed on the Saturday. The words were thele, This
very night Sir Edmondbury Godfrey is dijpatched. And I very much re-
jeded Mr. Eivers Lor this Aftibn, and theutold him. This will over-
throw the Defign or I will be hanged.
L. C. J. What day did yoU receive the Letter?
Mr. Dugdale. I have proved I received it on a Monday,
L. C. J. But pray what date did it bear ?
Mr. Dugdale. That Letter muft come by Saturday Poft, for it faid,
This night Sir Edmondbury Godfrey is dijpatched.
L. C. J. He did not name any body, by-whom?
Mr. Dugdale. No, but it laid he was kill'd, and we knew by whom.
Mr. JuJiice Pemberton. And are you furethat was Mr. Harcourt's Let-
ter ?
Air. Dugdale. Yes, for he did ufually fign his Letters with two letters
W. H. which flood either for Harcourt, or Harrifon.
Mr. Belvpood. Did you acquaint any Body with this, or did you con-
cealit ?
Air. Dugdale. I did go to an Alehoule that is hard by my Lords the
next day, which was Tuefday, and there I asked,If they did not hear fome
News of a Knights being kill'd at London.^ And I have an Evidence here,
if your Lordlhip pleafe, I will call him, who, I defire, may teftifie the lame
thing.
L.C.J. Yes, by all means.
Sir Chr.Levins. Mr. Dugdale., Vray., will you give us fome more ac-
count of the Letter that came from Mr. Whitebread to Mr. Ercers.
Mr. Dugdale. I remember one particularly, but I cannot tell what
number I have leen.
Sir Chr. Levins. Did you lee more than that one ?
Air. Dugdale. I particularly remember that.
L. C. J. What was that one particularly ?
Harcourt. My Lord, I defire to ask him one Queflion, When was the
laft time that you received any Letters from me ?
Mr. Dugdale. The laft I received from you (to my beft remembrance)
was that about Sir Edmonbury Godfrey, and it was mO^oher.
Harcourt. I have not writ to that perlbn this Year and half.
L. C.J. Let that Man be called, that proves this bufinefs of the death
of Sir Edmndbury,and then talk of it.
Mr. Dug'
(2/)
M>\ Dugdale. Mr. Harcoart, you know very well, that when Mr. Ire^
land was laftin the Country laft Year, you were to fend him the Anlwers
that came by Letters from Omerf,and thofe were fent down to my Lord
AJioKSy and I faw them, eight of thofe Letters, I am fare. And I can prove
It by one Circumftance, two of them came relating to Mr. Edward AJion's-
death, from I intercepted them, and talking of it, that I could
Conjure, and tell of the death of Mr. Edward Ajion^ before any of his
Friends knew of it. And Mr. Ireland writ a chiding Letter about itj that
he had not heard it fooner, and you fent down word. That you did write
thofe Letters, and yet you lay you have not written to me of a Twelve-
month, or more.
Harcourt. This Gentleman does pretend to know my hand, and 'tis
true, I have writ feveral Letters for Mr. Ewers, and direfted to him , but
as to this time he (peaks of I have left off Writing for divers years. He
pretends to know me, and yet this Gentleman before the Committee of
Commons in Parliament, which was yefterday was five Weeks, as well as
he knew my hand, came and faid I was a Gentleman he did not know. He
came alfb to entrap me at the Gatehoufe before thofe Gentlemen of the
Committee of the Houfe of Commons; but becaufe he (aid he knew my
hand fb very well, and teffifies thofe expreflions in the Letter, I muft fay
this, I never did write any fuch Letter, nor did I ever in my life feem to
approve of any mans Death or Murder. But the thing is this, he pretends
to know my hand, and to prove it, the Gentlemen defired me to write
my own hand and my name, and he in the mean time did withdraw, and
three of them did write their names, and afterwards they called him in
again, and asked him which was Harcourls hand, and he was not able to
fiy which it was.
L. C. J. You write more hands, as well as have more names, and can
counterfeit your hands as well as change your names.
Mr. Jtijiice Pemberton, You fpeak before your time, and your bare
word ^oes for nothing.
L. 6. J. But Mr. Dugdale, where is your Witnefs ?
Harcourt. I don't know any thing of this.
L. C. J. But if he calls up a Witnefs, of whom you can have no fufpi-
tion, that can teftific that at this time Mr. Dugdale fpoke about the Death
of Sir Edmondbury Godfrey .>? What will you fay to that}
Harcourt, I believe there is no fuch thing at all.
Sir Chr. Levins. My Lord, here is Mr. Chetwin, Pray fivear him ?
C Which was done f
L. C. J. Mr. Chetwin, Do you remember that Mr. Dugdale cameto you
any time laft Summer, and what time, and what difcourfe had you.
Mr. Chetwin. My Lord, if your Lordfhip pleafe, I was mod part of
the Summer in the Country, I came mxo Staffbrdjldre about the 29'^'^ of
AuguU. My Lord, there is a Gentleman, one Mr. Sanbidge, that is a Kinf^
man of my Lord Ajions, that was very well acquainted with the Family
where I was, which was half a Mile off my Lords, and ufed to come and
play with me at Tables. My Lord, at that very time in OHober he came
to rae, and there fays he, Do you hear nothing of a Judice of Peace in
(;-8)
Wefimfijier^where you live, that is killed? or to that efFed. No, faid I5
and I had Letters yeherday, and heard nothing of it. Saith he, ! was this
morning at Elds^ and there a Girl of the Houfe told me, Mr. Di/gdale had
been there, and reported that there was a Juftice of Peace of Weflminfler
was killed 5 but who he Ihould be I never heard named, and on Saturday
following my Letters brought it down to me.
C. J. When was it that this was fpoken ?
Mr.Chetvcin. It was Tuefday morning, (as I remember)and that byd
very good circumftance,! went that day for Lze^yfeW,and the Saturday aftef
the News came to me to that Sir F^dmondbury was found mur-
thered.
L. C. J. The Jury would do well to obferve this in point of time, Sir
Fdmondbury Godfrey was kill'd, as it was fince proved, a Saturday, but on
Monday he was mifs'd, on Thurfday he was found, and on Saturday the
News was fpread all over the Country. Now, laid he, the Tuelday before
the News came down, which muft be the Tuefday after the Saturday he
Was killed, one comes from the Alehoufe, and asks. Do you not hear of a
Juftice of Peace at Wejimmfier that is killed ? for the Wench at yonder
Alchoule fays, Mr Dugdale was here this morning,and reported that fuch an
one was killed: So that it is moft Notorious, as any thing in the World
can be, that this thing was known to them, before any of us knew what was
become of him.
Mr. JuJiice Pemberton. How do you further know it to be upon Tuef-
day ?
Mr. chetwin. I know it to be thatTuelday, my Lord, very well,for we
all went about fuch a time to myCoufins Mother, to ftay a Week there,
and after I ret urned back, and on Tuefday, the 15^1^ of OSfober, I went to
the Race to Lichfield^ and ftayed till Saturday there, and came thence to
and was here the Wednelday, being the firft day of the Term.
But I remember particularly the firft Information Mr. Dngdale gave in the
Country, came to my Coufins hands from the Mayor of Staffbrd^aiAd I hap-
pcn'd to fee him, I think it was Chrifimas day. It came inclofed in a Let-
ter upon the apprehcnfion of Mr. Dugdale^ I remember I met him, and he
told me of it, and, laid he, the Parliament did not fit that day : id he went
to acquaint the Lord Lieutenant of the County, that is, the Duke of Mon-
mofith with it, who carried it to the King. But when Mr. Dugdale was
fent for, my Coufin went down,and writ me a good charadicr of him. As
fbon as ever came to Town, before he went to be examined by
the Council, as I remember, I went with ibme Gentlemen to fpeak with
him, and faid I to him. Can you fay any thing about Sir Edmondbury God-
frey's Death ? Said he, I remember fuch a Letter came at fuch a time from
Father to Father wherein were thefe words. This Night
Sir Edmondbury Godfrey is di patched: And, faid he, I remember I asked
the Queftion of Emrs, Is not this likely to Jpoil all the dejign d No, faid
he, he was a Man that profecuted perfbns that went to debauch'd Houfes,
and it will be faid to be fome of them, that did revenge themfelves of him,
or words to the fame effeft. This made me recoiled the time I had the
Difcourfe with the Gentlemen in the Country, I happened to be out of
Town when the Murtherers of Sir Edmondbury Godfrey^VitxcTxytd ; as
foonasi came to Town, and found that the Murtherers of Sir Edmondbury
Godfrey were Condemnedj I was at a Coffee-hovife, enquiring how it was
managed J
managed ^ idrhe 1 found flighted it, others did hot know what to make of
it. Was not Mr. Dugdale there, faid \ } No, faid they,. Then I preiume,
faid I, that a very material Evidence was omitted,:. Upon this I went to
Mr. Chamber, and tliere (aid 1 to him. What was the Peeafon you
were not produced aS an Evidence, at theTryal of Sir Edmnhurj/ God-
fre/s Murtherers } Said I, you .to}d fuch a thing,and )[ hope you told
Truth, for I don't hear that you have ever contradiftcd it, that you !aw a
Letter about the Monday after he was murthered.. In my judgment it is
very material, il you have fworn it; if your Depofition be true, or ell^
you did ill to report it. Said I, pray let me (ee the Copy, of your Depo*-
iition, fworn before the Council. He (hew'd it mp, and there was not a
lyllable of it that I could fee, but afterwards appear'd to be there.
L. C. J. That is not very material, if the thing it (elf be trqc.
Mr. Chetm». But its not being there, made me remember it.
jl/r. Recorder. Pray (et up Mr. D/igdale again. Now pray tell the
Contents of Mr. Whitebread's Letter. ., ■ .
Mr. Dugdale. The Contents of it was, to encourage Mr.Emrs^ to go
on to be careful whom he did intruft, that they (hould be (uch fellows as
were delperate, hardy, courageous and ftout, or to that purpofe j it was
no matter whether they were Gentlemen or no, fo they were but courage-
ous and defperate.
Mr. JtiJiice Atkjns. What were they to do?
Mr. Dugdale. For the killing of the Ring.
L-C.J. Was that in Letter ? .
Mr. Dugdale. Mr. Whitebread did write tho(e words, they were in the
Letter.
Whitebread. Was that very word in the Letter, for killing the King ?
Mr. Dugdale. It was, that they (hould be (tout and courageous per-
fons.
L.C.J. For what end?
Mr. Dugdale. It was for taking away the King's life, ;
L. C. J. I ask you, recoileft your (elf was it by way of delcription of
fbmeDefign or Plot,that tiiofe per(bns were to be chofen out ? or Was it in
downright words for killing the King ?
Mr. Dugdale. To the bed of my remembrance they Were thole very
words.
L. C. J. tt was much he would write fuch words in a Letter.
Mr, Dugdale. I was one that was made choice of about it,
Mr. JuJiice Pemberton. Were you to be one ?
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, I was, ,
Mr. Jujiice Pemberton. Mr.Gd'ez^i^, you know who it was you enter-
taitled for this Bu(ine(s,and you could truft them.
L. C. J. How were the(e Letters conveyed ? Were they fent by the
Ordinary Pod ?
Mr. Dugdale. Yes, they were, and they traded me with them, becaufe
being directed to me, if they were intercepted-I (hould be hang'd,and they
faved.
Mr. JuJiice Pemberton. Upon thelc Letters,what were you entertained
to do?
Mr. Dugdale. My Lord, I was entertained before by my Lord Staf-
ford, and Mr. Ewers,
I Mr. JuJi.
Mr. Jidr. Vemh&Uon. What to do?
Mr. Dugdak. To kill the King.
Whitebrtad. Pray Sir, How came you to fee thefe Letters ? Did you
intercept them and read them your felf ?
Mr. Dugdak. I did intercept them, and open them of my own felf
Whitebread. Pray take notice of what he fays Gentlemen.
Mr. Recorder. The Jury do take notice.
L. C. Baron. Do do you knov/ any thingagainft Mx.Tnrner^ and Mr.
Retmick^e ^
Mr. Dugdak. Mr. Ewers hath told me by word of mouth,that he was
to carry on the Defign in Worce^erjhire., but I few him with Mr. Ewen
and Lewfpn, eLnd others, when he was going to his Brother Turners then in
Nottin^hamjhne., and they did confult and agree there, in my hearing, to all
that 1 have feid before.
Turner. What did I aflent to ?
Mr. Dugdak. Why this Defign,. you and Mr. Ewers and Lewfon^ and
ethers, agreed to what I feid before.
Turner. Where was this ?
Mr. Dugdak. At Tixal and other places.
Turner. In what Month.
Mr. Dugdak. It was about two years ago, about the beginriing of
the Bufinefi.
Turner. Where was it?
Mr. Dugdak. It was at Mr. Ewers Chamber, you know me very well.
Turner. I have not been in Stap)rdjhire thcfe four yeai>s.
L. C. J. Why, don't you know him Mr, Turner ?
Turner. I do know I have.been there a matter of three or four times
in my whole life, but have not been there thefe four years.
Mr. Jufkce Windham. Have you any thing to fey againft Femricke. *
Mr. Dugdak. I don't know that I ever few him before.
Air. Recorder. But he fpeaks fully as to the other Four.
Sir Chr. Levins. Call Mr. Prance., and fwear him. ( Which was done)
Sir chr. Levins. Come on Vk. Prance., What can you fey to Mr. Fen-
wicke or any of the others ?
Mr. Prance. Mr. Harcourt, I made him an Image of our Lady about
a year ago, and when I was receiving Monyforit, (it was to be fent in-
to Merrj-Land) you told me then that there was a defign of killing the
King.
L. C. J. Who told you ?
Mr. Prance. Mr. Harcourt that very time.
Sir Chr. Levins. When was it ?
Mr. Prance. It was when it was fent to Merryland in tht Portugal's
Country 5 you know it \Ne:\\Mv. Harcourt.
Harcourt. I know nothing of it.
Sir Chr. Levins. Pray let him alone till we have done with him.
Harcourt. I defire but to know when it was.
Mr. Prance. When I received the Money for thePiOrure, it was a year
ago.
Sir Chr. Levins. What fey you to Mr. Fenwichg
Mr. Profsce. I wasin Mr. Ireland's Chamber in Ruffel-slreet, and there
was
fsO
Ireland^ Pe//2jw4, and Grove^ and they were talking of 5CCC0 men
that (liould be raifed and be in rcadinefs to carry on the CatholickCauie,
and fettle the Catholick Heligion. I asked who Ikould Govern them?
they told me mv Lord Belluih^ my Lord Powk^ and my Lord Anmdei.
L. C.J. Who told you la >
Mr. Prance. Mr. Penwick?.
L. C. J. How long ago d
Mr. Vrance. About a fortnight Michaelmas laft. Mr. Grove caffie
to me two or three days afterward to buy two or three Silver Spoons to
give away at a.Chtiftning, and then I asked him what Office he ffiould be
in,he told me he could not tell 5 but ke told me my Lord Antndel^ my Lord
BellaG, and my LordP^rr^, had Commiffions for thele things to give.
L. C. J. This Grove told you.
Mr. Prance, Yes, my Lord.
L. C. J. But what did Fenwicke tell you ?
Mr. Prance. He told me who were to Govern the Army, my Lord Bet-
lap., my Lord Powis, and, my Lord Arundel of Wardoitr.
Sir Chr. Levins. Had he any dilcourfe with you about Trade ?
Mr. Prance. He laid,'lThould not fear Trade, I ffiould have Church-
work enough.
Mr. Belvpood. Pray fpeak that again.
Mr. Prance. I asked him \fhat (hall we poor Tradelmen do if you
have Civil Wars in England P O, faid he, you need not fear havingTrade
enough, you ffiall have Church-work enough to make Images, Chalices,
and Crucifixes, and Vafes, and fuch like things.
Mr. Belvpoad. If you will ask Mx.Prance any Queftions, pray do.
Fenvoickg. My Lord, I am certain of this, that he never faw me at
Mr. Ireland's. Chamber in that Company, nor did I ever ipeak of any fuch
thing before him.
Mr. France. Mr. and he have been fitting together whole hours,
and confulting about fbrae Concern or other, mifchief no doubt. My
Lord, I went to Mr. Fenwickis Chamber after my Choftly father was
dead.
L. C. J. What was his name ?
Mr, Prance. FsLthev Jantet. And he importuned me to come to Con-
fefiion to him ^ I told him I was not yet very well latisfied who I ffiould go
to, to be my Ghoftly Father.
Fenvpicke. When was this Mr. Prance ?
Mr. Prance. Before Michaelmas about a v^eek or eight, days.
L. C. J. Did not you know him Mr. Fenmcke ?
Fenvpicke. Who, Father James.^ yes very well,and I know Mr. Prance.,
but not upon that account. -
Mr. Prance. And I brought you a Table home for the Altar atthe fame
time.
Mr. Jufl. Pemherton. Who was it importuned you to have him for your
Confeflor ?
Air, Prance. It was Mr. Fenvpicke, and I told him when I did come to
Confeflion, I would come to him. And heinjoined me once or twice to
, fay nothing of what I heard laid.
L. C. J. If Harcourt have any Queftions to ask him, let him.
FlarconrL Can you fay that ever I fpoke to you about any fuch Bufinefs}
Air. Prance. Yes, as fare as I ftand in this place, and you in that. And
one
C 3 -
one Jhsfftpfon came with you when you paid me for four Candle-
rticks,
L. C. J. Do you know Mr. Thompfon /
Harcourt. Yes, I do.
L- C. J. Had you any Candlefticks from Mr. Prance?
Harcourt. I had a great while ago.
Mr. Prance. He paid me 44 /. that time for them.
Mr. Recorder. Call Mr. Bedloe. ( Who was Sworn.)
Sir Chr. Levins. What can you fay to any of the Pfilbners at the Bar }
L. C.J. What can you lay as to Mr. Whitehead and Mr. Fenwick^ ?
Mr. Bedloe. My Lord, I do not queftion but Mr. Whitebread and Mr.
Fenwicke will objedt againft me ray refufing to gave in Evidence againft
them at the former Tryal, but I think that there are Ibrae upon your
Honourable Bench, that can make my Apology for not giving in all my
Evidence againft them then, for it was not convenient, becauieit would
have ftopt a Defign I was then upon, and could not get off from, that
was about Mr. Heading.^ whom I was then treating with,for Mr. Whitebread
and Mr.i^e«iv/r^e,as well as the Lords in the Tower,and he told me that he
would depend upon my Confidence and Juftice as to the Lords, accord-
ing as I did deal with thefe men, if I brought them off, he would be-
lieve, and the Lords in the Tower would believe that I would bring them
off too. So that I did make an Apology then in the Court, that I could
not fafely lay all that I had to fay at that time. Some of the Juftices I
believe do remember it, ahd in that which I did give in againft them, I
did not lay all nor half that I could have faid.
whitebread. Did you fay any thing of that at the laft Tryal ?
Mr. Bedloe. I will anlwer that matter to the Court, but 'trsthemeafure
they always take to intrap the Witnefles ^ for now I am out of a Conn-
try that will give me an Indulgence and Difpenfation to Ipeak exadtly to a
day or an hour 5 as their St. Omers Witneffes have.
L. C. J. But what fay you now to them >
Mr. Bedloe. I did then fay that I did lee Mr. Whitebread.^ and he hath
been in feveral Ccnfultations for the carrying on of the Plot; but then I
did it with a Caution, that I never heard of Mr. Whitebread.^ that he was
fo very much concerned; and indeed I had no realbn to lay fo, becaufe
I heard him my felf,and could not well fpeak from the heaffay of another.
And as for Mr. Fenwicke J. never heard him give in any Anfwer,but I have
feen Fenwicke at the Confult there.
L. C. J. Have they ever told you any thing concerning the Rilling of
the King}
Mr. Bedloe, Whitebread told Coleman at Mr. Harcourfs Chamber the
manner of lending the four Ruffians to Windjor about September.
Harcourt. I never faw him twice in all my life before.
Mr. Belwood.Do you know of any Reward thofe Ruffians were to have?
Mr. Bedloe. Yes, 1 faw Harcourt take the Money out of a Cabinet, I
think It was Fourfcore or One hundred pounds, the Sum I don't well re-
member. Harcourt paid them the Money by Mt.Coleman's order,and gave
the Meffenger a Guiney from Mr. Coleman to Drink his Health. Mr. Cok'
man was gone a little before I came in, andfo I could not know that Cok-
»M»gaveit, but he fiidfo.
Sir Chr, Levins. What was Pickering and Grove to have ?
Mr, Bedloe.
f 33 >
Mr. Bedloe. Grove was to have 1500 /. and a Promile of the Favor of
the Lords. 1500 /- was the Sum appointed at Mr. Harconrt's Chamber, and
doubtlefs in feveral other places, but there I heard it from Mr. Whitebread^
and Pritchard^ and le Faire^zndKarnes 5 and Pickering was to have a num-
ber of Mafles, I can't tell exaQ:ly how many, but they were fo many, as at
12 a Mafs, would amount to be equal to Mr. Grove.
Mr. Belvpood. Pray,^Sir, what was that for >
Mr. Bedloe. For killing the King. But Ticketing had been dilciplined
before, and received a Check from the Superiors, becaufe he had been '
negligent, and (lipt many opportunities. One time the Flint of his Piftol
was loole, another time there was no Powder in the Pan, another time he
had Charged with all Bullets, and no Powder.
L.C.J. Did you ke Harconrt ddi\€V theGuineyfor the Expedition
of the Windfor Bufinefs}
Mr. Bedloe. yes,my Lord, asfrora to drink his Health.
Mr. Belwood. Pray, was either Whrtebread or Fenmcke knowing of the
Agreement when it wasipoken of ?
Mr. Bedloe. I have feen Fenmcke at Harcourfs, and Whitebread's Cham-
ber, when it was fpoken of; they were all of one Opinion, they had de-
creed it. I never faw Whitehread but twice at Harcourt's Chamber, where
one time was Harcourt himfelf, at another time v/as Pritchard and le Faire.,
and others 5 at which time Sir George Wakemans Bufinels was Ipoken of^
and becaufe he would not accept the icooo I. 15000 /. was agreed to be
given him 3 arid upon Sir s Tryal, I fliall let you know where he
had the Money too, but I defire to be excufed at prelent. I fliall Ipeak it to
morrow.
Jj. C. J. What did they Confult there ?
Mr. Bedloe. They were Confulting how it fliould be done, and what
fliould be done, if they did not do it. Then Ireland propofed, that the
mofl: certain way was to do it at His Morning Walks m Newmarket j Fen-
wickev/as togo,and with him went Grove^Pickering^andConiers'jlheard 7 or
8 of them were to go.
Lord Chief Baron. What fay you to Turner .<?
Mr. Bedloe. Of Mr. Turner^ I know nothing but what I have heard
others fay.
Lord Chief Bhron. What fay you to Gavan
Mr. Bedloe. I know nothing of him, but only I have heard Mt.Har-
court fay, he hath been a great Manager of this Bufinefs.
L. C. J. That is nothing to the purpofe what others fay.
Mr. Bedloe. Mr. Harcourt is no Stranger to my bringing of Pacquets
and Portraantles over to him, from Beyond the Seas.
Harcourt. He never brought but one in all his life-time.
Mr. Bedloe. What, Did I never bring but onePacquet? Have not I
brought divers,and divers Portmantles?
Harcourt. You never brought a Portmantle in your life ?
Mr. Bedloe. I have brought divers.
Harcourt. You know I never faw you but twice in my life before to
day, and when I met with you at the Privy Council.
Mr. Bedloe. My Lord,theTryals have been fb put off, that I could
never get all my Witneffes together,but I have 7 or 8 of my Witneffes that
are out of Town, that would make this very clear. My Lord, there was
K never
(34)
never a Pacquet of Letters that I brought over to Mr. Harcowt, but did
eontain in it a Defign of the Subverfion of the Government; and it mufl:
be more than two Pacquets that I have brought over; for I have brought
Letters from Watton^ and Letters from St. Omers^ and Letters'from Brnges^
and from PrfW, and BomValledoUd ^XidiSallamanca,-.^ and all thefe Letters
contained in them the management of this Plot, how far they had pro-
ceeded beyond Sea, and Anfwers how far they had proceeded in England
from him and to them to and again from time to time in carrying on the
Defign of Subverting the Government, and altering the Religion^ where-
in was given an account of the Army and Forces that were to''be raifed
both here and beyond Sea 5 what Contributions were made or expefted
at home or abroad, all was lodged in Mr.Hanourt's hands, at Icall;wife an
account of the greateft part. And I have been fent to Mr. Langkorne
with Papers from Harconrt about this Affair to [Regifler them; and of
that Ifhall give you an account upon Mr. Langhorne's Tryal.
.. L. C. J, Well now ask him what you will.
Whitebread, Sir I defire to ask you one Qneftion.
Mr. Bedloe. I defire it may be asked theCourt,
Whitebread. I defire to ask him whether he was a Lieutenant in Flan"
ders ox no}
Mr. Bedloe. Ycs.^l vetis. Whitebread. OfHorfeor Foot?
Mr. Bedloe. Of Foot.
Whitebread. Take notice there is no fuch Officer of Foot in all Flanders,
Air, Bedloe, I was then in the Regiment of the Prince of Freizland.
Whitebread. There are no Lieutenants in all the F landers Companies,
only Captains and Alfaras.
Mr. Bedloe, My Lord, I had a Commiflion, and I have a Commillion
to be fb, and I defire I may fend for it.
L. C. J, It is no very material thing, as fbon. as it comes they fliall fee
your Coirimiffion.
Harcoiirt. You fay you have had Papers from me, and been very famb
liar with me , Pray how can this be, when, as I did declare before the
Lords in Council, that was the third time I ever faw your face ? The firll:
time he came to me, he brought Letters from Dunkirk, five years ago ^
when! opened them,I found them diredled to other perfons, and to thera
I fent them,my name being only ufed in theoutfide Gover^and itfeemsup-
on that Confidence that he had in me at that time, not long after he came
to my Chamber, and told me he had lately become a Roman Catholick,
and by that means had loft his Friends, and that he then was in want,and
unleft I did affift him it would be very hard with him 5 though his Father
'differted him, yet he had fbme friends,whom he expcfted would do fome-
thing for him, and then I will repay you.
L. C, When was this ?
Harcourt. The fecond time that I ever faw him in all ray life, and this
is four years fince. ThenfaidI, what will ferveyour turn,he told me 20 s,
which I lent to him, and I never faw his face afterwards till I met him at
the Privy Council,and thereforehow ftiouldaman believe a word he fays?
L. C. J, But how (hall a man know that what you fay is true >
Mr. Bedloe. I will make it appear at the Tryal of the Lords that I fent
to him for 10 I. and had it, I cannot nov/ prove it without bringing fbn^e
witnefTes thati havebehind aCurtain ,and 1 will not difcover them ti l then,
they fhall not know who they are. Mr, Jaf.
(35)
Mr. JhJI . Windham, Will you ask him any Queftions?
Mr. Bedloe. My Lord, I have not faid the one hundreth part of what
I can fay honeftly, and like a Chriltian, of Mr. Harcourt.
Harcourt. You may fay what you will, but you wont fpeak Truth.
Mr. Bedloe. ?dr. Harcourt went with me to Mr. Cokmans^ when I car-
ried over the Confult. There was the greateft part of the defign in that
which I,was to carryover to Omers^ and that Confult did I fetch from
Mr. and Mr. was with me, and I had Thanks from Mr.
for my Fidelity in the Bufinefs, and Expedition in bringing and
carrying the Pacquets. I was recommended to my Lord Arundel by Mr.
Harcourt, and was promifed by hisLordfhip all the Friendflrip and Favor
imaginable, when the Times were turned.
L. C. J. Why here you fee, he names feveral places and tithes, wherein
he met with you. Harcourt. Not one word of all this is true.
Mr. Bedloe. I defire you to ask Mr. Harcourt, my Lord, Whether he
was not in AuguU, or September laft, in company with me and he Faire.
Harcourt. Le Faire, I know no Le Faire.
Mr. Bedloe. LeFevre thtn.
Harcourt. Le Fevre, 1 believe I did fee at that time, but not fine?.
Mr. Bedloe. Pritchard did recommend the care of me to him.
L. C. J, There he names another time, when you and Pritchard v/ere
there together.
Mr. Bedloe. Pritchard was my Confident, and my great Friend, and
told them, This is a Perfbn whofe Fidelity you have tryed,in carrying over
fuch and fuch Letters, and therefore you may very well trufc him,and take
care of him ; and fo he recommended me as one that was really fit to un-
derffand the bottom of the Defign. And Pritchard did tell the before
them, that the King's death v/as intended as a part of it 5 and he fent me
again another time to Mr. Harcourt, but it was about no material bufinefs ;
and Harcourt gave a Bill of Exchange to carry to wh.at Citizen I don't
know, but to Sir George V/akeman, to have 2000 I. by whofe Orders, as
they find, yourLordihip fhall know upon hisTryal, but I faw Hartouri
give him the Bill of Exchange.
Mr. Jujiice Dutben. Who gave the Bill ?
Mr. Bedloe. It was Harcourt my Lord.
Harcourt. Who was by when this Bill was given ?
Mr. Bedloe. Kaines, and Sir Wil/iam Andej^n.
Harcourt. How waS this Bill drawn ?
Mr. Bedloe. It was drawn upon a Citizen, and left in your hands,
Harcourt. I defire he may name the Citizen, and if he can, make it
out ^ if he do, it will appear upon the Merchants Books.
Mr. Bedloe. Sir George Wakeman received a Bill of Exchange from Mr.,
Fiarcourt, and he was told here is a Bill of Exchange for 2000 I. as part of
a greater Sura, to which Sir George Wakgman anfwered,that 15000 1, was a
fnall Reward for the fetlingof Religion,and preferving of the three King-
doms from Ruine; biu if it were not for fuch a Woman, he would never
undertake it, but for her he would do any thing. And after he had given
Sir George Wakeman the Bill,Sir George Wakeman Opened it,and read it,but
I did not read the name that was to it.
Fenwicke. My Lord, it feems not fufficient proof that he faj s, he faw a
Bill of Exchange, unkTs he fays from whom, and to whom, that it may be
proved by the Books, or otherwife. L.C.J. You
Cb6;
L. C. J. You fay well, Mr. Fewick?^ if fo-be he had been the perfon
concerned in the Bill, that he were either one that drew it, or was to re-
ceive the Mony, then it were ftrange that he (hould not know the Parties
to it 5 but I muft tell you, where he was not one nor the other, it was a
collateral matter. Do people take notice of every particular Bill of Ex-
change that they fee, which they are neither to pay nor receive?
Fenvpjcke. But what reafon does he give yourLordlhip or theJ?/r^to
believe that there was luch a Bill,unle{s he does produce either the Bill or
the perfon that paid it >
JWir. Bedloe. I did only fee the Bill out oiMi. Harconrt's hand, but it was
read there only by Sir George Wakeman.
L. O J. Is it a pin matter whether there was fech a Bill or no, or
whether he had mentioned it or no?
FenTPtcke. But feeing he hath mentioned it, I fay there is nothing of
proof of it, but only his bare word.
L. C. J. Yes, there is his Oath.
Sir Chr. Letuins. And I defire the Jury to take notice how unreafbh-
ableathingitisthat you ask. You would have Mr. Bedloe \)iod\xcQ the
Bill of Exchange that was given to Sir George Wakeman to receive money.
Mr. Bedloe. I have onely one word more. Sir George Wakeman recei-
ved the Bill of Exchange from Mr. read it himfelf, folded it up,
and went and received the money 5 and that the Court will be pleafed to
fee my Commiffion, for now I have it here.
Which was Read by my Lord Chief Jnliice North, and feveral
others.
Sir Chr. Levins. We have onely this one matter to trouble your Lord-
(hip and the Jury with. You perceive by the Evidence that hath been gi-
ven that the main matter begins at theConfultof the 24th of April., when
the Confiilt wasjnow to fbrtine this Evidence, we are now to produce a Let-
ter that was written from one Fetre a Sf. Omers Jefuite, wherein is mention
made that he was to give notice, Mr. Whitebread had appointed a gene-
yal Meeting juft at that time in London, at w hich they were to conliilt
of very great matters; and they were to be very private in their coming
to, and appearing about the Town. And this Letter was taken amongft
Mr. Harcourt's Papers, and to prove it we call Sir Thomas Doleman.
(Who was Sworn)
Sir Chr. Levins. Vvzy what can you fay where this Letter was found ?
Sir Thomas Doleman. It was found amongft Mr, Harcourt's Papers, in
a Bag of his Papers that was committed to my care to fearch.
L. C. J. Can you tell what day you found it ?
sir Th. Doleman, It was a matter of fix or fevcn days after Mr. Oats had
giyen his Information of this-Plot to the Council.
Harcourt. What Paper is it i?
Mr. JuSiice Attains. Hear it firft.
L.C.J. It is a Letter found amongft your Papers.
Harcourt. Who is it from ?
L. C. J. It is from one Mr. Petre, do you know fuch a one?
Clerk.^ of the Crown. It is fiibferibed E. P.
Harcourt. Yes, my Lord, I do, I wilWeny nothing of the truth.
Then
. , c 3/3,
Then the Letter was read in h£c verbL
Honoured Dear Sir. , , ■
THave but time to corivey thefi foUorcittg particulars to you. FirH lam
lo give joit notice, that it hath feem'd fitting to our Majier Conju'.t ,
Prov &c. to fix the 21th of April next Stilo veteri, for the meeting at
London of cur Congregation ^ on which day all thofe that have a Suffrage., are
to he prejent there, iL.t they may he ready to give a bcginmng to the fame on
the 2\th, which is the next day after St George'/ day: Ton are warned to have
jus fufFragii, and therefore if yoilr occafions Jhould not permit you to be prefent.,
you are to fignifie as much, to the end, others, in their ranks, be ordered to
jupply your abfence. Every one is minded alfo, not fo hajien to London
long before the time appointed, nor to appear much about the Tott>n till the
meeting be over, leji occafon Jhould be given to fuj'peH the Defgn. Finally,^
Secrey, as to the time and place, is much recommended to all thofe thai
receive Summons:, as it will appear of its own nature necejjary,
Tertio pro Domino Solo'no Difcv.
BenefaS. Prov. Luniends,
I amjlraitned for time, that I can only affureyou, I jhall he much glad
of ohlieing yoU any wJys,
SIR,
Tour Sei'vant
Edward Petre,
L. C. J. Gome now Mr. Harcourt, will you expound this Letter
to me that fpeaks of this meeting and privacy? .
Hircourt. Yes my Lord, tho it was not my Letter yet I will tell you
what the meaning of it was. That Letter was writ to one, who had Jus
Suffragii, a Right to come and vote in our Congregation, which, accoid-
ing to the ConftitutiOn and Orders of our Society, is within the compais
of three years, where they meet about the particular affairs of the So-
ciety.
L. C. J. What was it about?
harcourt. It was about choofing an Officer, choofing a Procurator
to fend to Rome-., that was the cheif point, and fecreiy was a thing
that was recommended to every one, as it was fit it fhould be, we living-
in a Countrey where every ones eye was upon us, and we were an
Eye-fore to them, we ought to be cautious of meeting in fuch Num-
bers as might give an Offence, and this was the only thing indeed.
L. C. J. Look you, Mr. Harcourt, you fay well, bur we are not
to he altogether difciples of youi-^ fo as to have no ienfc of our own, and
to be impos'd upon fo weakly as this. Here is the thing, fays the Letter,
I would not have you come too foon to London, nor appear too much in pub"
Hck^, for fear of difcovering a. Defigh, which requites Jecrefy in its own
nature. What, was that your Defign of choofing a Procurator? dell
rne but one thing that can bear the name of a Defign, which rauft
have that Secrefy in it, that people muft not appear much about Town,
and that in its own nature requires fuch a thing.
L Whitebread
("38)
Whitcbread. My Lord, the thing it felf is Evident what was the
Defign.
L. C. J. Come, Mr. Wkitebread, you will do it better.
Wkitebread. It is Evident it was a Defign to choofe an Officer.
L. C J. Why, good Mr. Wkitebread^ do any write after that man-
ner? Were you to write to any one, or ask the Jury,if they were to choofe
fome Colledor for the Receit of fome charitable Money that Ihould be
employed for the releif of Proteftantsin France : Do you think any man
would {ky^ Do not appear much inhan^oxibefore hand, nor come too foon,for
fear of difcovering the Defgn, which in its own nature requires Secrecy:
will this indure the name of a Defign?
Wkitebread. Firft, it is a very hard thing to bring lb many mens lives
indangermeerly upon the Interpretation of a word, which may as pro-
pcily fignify one thing as another. Is it not proper for me to lay I
have a Defign to Dine withfuch a man to morrow, or the like?
L. C. J. Tis true now, but Hearken —.
Wkitebread. But that was the thing Defigned, to have a Congrega-
tion for the chooling of an Officer, and it was, I think, very properly
faid, and that it Ihould be kept fecret was as prudential a thing as poffi-
bly could be. Was it not proper here, becaule our Profeffion was not
publickly permitted in this Kingdom 5 and therefore that was the rea-
fon why Secrefy was injoyn'd? And this upon my Salvation was all
that ever was intended or thought.
L. C J. No th. This now is the Interpretation you put upon the
Letter, but we underftand by the WitneflTes what was done at that
meeting.
L. C. J. Look you, Mr Wkitebread, this Letter without Queftion,
hath been well ftudied by you all, and it requires it mightily.
Wkitebread, It needs none,
L. C. J. This is not the natural Expofition of the words of the
Letter that you give, but a forced one 5 for firft, there is a difference
between faying I doe defign to Dine to day, though it be a ufual
matter, but it is another thing, when I call a thing by the name of a
Defign accompanyed with a requiring of Secrefy in its own nature, and
when I give advice that they muft not appear in Town too foon, nor
too much about the Town, for fear of difcovering the Defign, which in
its own nature requires Secrejy : Muft all this amount but to the choofing
of an Officer? You'I never make one Papiftof all this Company, if you
make no better work of it.
Wkitebread. My Lord, I humbly defire your Lordlhip would not
ftrain a word which may be well enough faid, whether it be properly
faid or no.
L. C. J. 'Tis not one word alone, but 'tis the whole fcnfe.
Wkitebread. 'Tis evident there was Juft caufc of Secrefy, becaufc
of our Profefiion.
L. C. J. Mr WkitForead, 'Tis not one word that is relyed upon, for
the bufinefs is perfutd. 'Tis not laid pray meet at fuch a time , but
be careful you do not difcover the DeJtgn'j If it had been only laid fo,
it would have been a ftrain to have made this Conftrudion of a fingle
word, to make this that Defign, but as it is here we make no fuch Con-
ftruftion j It had been hard indeed to put that meaning upon itasyou
do
(3P >
do even then, for 'tis (eldom fo uied, forno man writes after that manner^
but when it foliows in a continued fenfe of fo mtny Lines, he jure you
meet on the of April, the day after St. Ceoigs day^ hut come not too
foon to Town.^ nor appear too much about the Tcron^for fear of Difcovering
the De(ign^ which you kriow in its own nature does require Secrefy : Can we
make any fuch Interpretation of it? If you have no better Arguments
than thele, you muft have people lofe their underftandirgs, or hav^a
very blind obedience to yours, or it will never down. Ay, Come Mr.
Gaven^ how do you fay is the meaning of this ?
Gaven, For my part Lie alfure your Lordlhip I was not there, but
this is known to all the Chriftian World, that there is fuch a meeting
in Spain, France, Germany, 8tc. that wherever the Jefuits are, once in
three years they have a meeting among themfelves for the fetling of their -
Affairs. Indeed the words have given your Lordfhip an occafion to
raife a Difficulty what the word Deftgn Ihould mean, which I do give
this Anfwer to. Your Lordfhips Difficulty is, that the word Defgn here
Ihould not be made ufe of to fend one poor Jefuit to Rome. My Lord
do but mark the end of the Congregation, and you will fay to us that
we might well ufe that word, becaufe the word may import fome great •
bufinefs of Concernment^ now what bufinefs of greater Concernment for
poor R.eligious men to meet together about, than thofe things that may
promote their better ftate in an another world, and the Regulation of
what is amifs in their Order. My Lord, upon my Confcience and
Salvation this was the end of the Congregation, to meet and fee what
is amifs in the Order, who do their dutys, and who not, who are irre-
gular in their Offices, and whole Office is vacant and to be fupplied.
L. C. J. But muft no body come to Town, nor appear too much
about the Town for this?
Gaven. Therefore my Lord, as to the word [_ Defgn ^ it concerning
the whole fpiritual good of the whole body of the Englifj Jefuits,
it might well be ufed for the Confultation of that Body, about all their
good, temporal and fpiritual, which was all concerned in it.
i. C. J. Thefe are a many words, but to no purpofe.
Gaven. Now, my Lord, for the fecond thing that you Objedf, your
Lordfhip remembers very well, that the Continuation of the fenfe in fa
many lines made the thing the more fufpitious, that more was intended
by it than fo: Now to thislfhall be able to Anfwer, it there can be
given a particular reafbn why we (hould add that word of Secrefy to
the other of Defign, having Anfwered to the one part, we now give
an Anfwer to the other, and fo to the whole. Now my Lord, becaufe
of the time, the Parliament was then fitting, and that we might not
offend the King and all Civil Magiftrates (whom we honour from
our hearts and Souls) that word was ufed that it might be kept fecret.
L. C. J. It was not out of love to the Parliament, it was the nature
of the thing required it, nor was it out of any fear you had of them. I
did never find, though you are as good at it as ever any I met with
^ for I never met with a Preift that had much more underflanding ) but
really you donot Anfwer me. You are fb far from Scholars, and argu-
ing like fuch, that you do not maintain the matter with common and rati-
onal underftanding, but only heap up fo many vain words (likea Rope
of Sand put together) which hath no natural Coherence, for you can-
not
C ^-O )
not poflibly make this reafonable, that people (houjd have (b much Cau-
tian, that they ftiould not come too long to Town beforehand.
Gdvm. Not to be taken notice of.
L. C. J. Not to appear in Town when they come.
Gitven. Not to be taken notice of.
L. C.. J. I fay fo, you cannot tell why'all thele Cautions fliould be
ufed meerly for choofing an Officer.
Gave». My Lord, our Lives depended upon it, if we were taken, be-
ing fuch men as we are.
L. C. J. You can make nothing of it, and you will find it an hard
task to Anfwer it, for if half the Evidence that hath been given were
not given, yet this Letter of your own, which cannot be denyed, ij ah
unanfwerable proof. It does monftroufly confirm Mr. Oats's teftimony
to be undeniable us to the meeting at the Confult^ for he, four or five
days before hand, comes and tells the Council, the very day which five
or fix days after this Letter makes good, which is found in Harconrt s
Cuftody.Then there was aConfulation upon the day,the very day that
Outs fays,and what he calls a Confultation,your own Letter fays is aDefign.
Guven, It was a Defign of a Congregation.
L. C. J. What fenfe is there in that, will any man in EftgUnd , or
did any man in England ever fay, take heed of difcovering our Defign of
going to Church or choofing a Colledfor?
Gaven. There is reafbn for the one and reafon for the other too.
L. C. J. I would appeal to your felves and all here prefent, what the
natural import of fuch a Letter is, whether it does not carry a matter
more than ordinary, whether its natural Intendment doth not look at
that? And the next thing is this; does any man write plainer than this,
when they write of a thing that is of fuch a nature? Is not the Dan-
ger too great to hazard that faft, which they call the nature of the thing,
to intruft it in a Letter? Is it not vain to put that in a Letter in words
at length, which they, to whom it is writ, know what the thing means?
And if it fhould be further known than they would have it, the thing
could never be done.-? And if you confider thepeifon that writes, a Jefuite
or a Preifl, are Preifts ever plain? And will you exped plainnefs here,
when,in things of ten thoufand times lefs moment, they don't write plainer?
Is it not known, you have not a Profelyte, that you do not keep under
Obligations as clofe as your Confeflions are? Have you not taken here
as it is fworn, a Sacrament of fecrcfy ? Is there a woman that you Convert
but in the Dark? Or a Papiff made out of a Preifl's hole? Are not all
your Deeds under-ground ? and do you work with any Light, but that
of a Dark Lanthorn .<? This is plain, unlefs you give a better anfwer
to this Letter, the Letter will hang about your Necks.
L. C. J. North, Mr Oates will tell you what the Defign was.
Mr Jii^ ice EUif. He can tell you what it was.
L. C. J. The Letter fpeaksitfelf
Dr. Oates, Mr. Gaven and they, now tell your Lordfhip what this Con-
fult wasfor,but they deny'd this Confult at fiiff, when there was but one
mantojuflifie it.I juftified it before MnFe^iiP/c^, who denied it at the Coun-
cil-board,though now they pawn their Salvation upon the Juftification of it.
Fen-ocickz I never denied that there.
L. C. J. Come, have they any thing to fay for themfelves? ■ Mr.
(4>)
M"" Bedlow. My Lord, Whereas, asM*" Gavenhya^ t^tin tibediericelS
the King and Parliament they would have their Confu^tions fecretj and
that they always defired to conceal themfelves then 5 the, time of Seffions"
of Parliament was the only time that I and others have been employed td
fetch over more Jefuites than at any other particular time.
D'^ Gates. And there are more of them then in the Court of Requefts,
and in the Lobbies, bare-faced, and threatning the Proteftants, than at a-
ny other time.
M" Bedlotp. We ufed to fetch them againft the Parliament alwaysj they
were in lels danger then than at other timesi
Lord Ch. JuJi. You could give a very good interpretation of the Letter,
I (uppofe, that M"" Dngdale (peaks of, that came feom Whitebrtad, That
he (bouldbe fure to entertain fuch as were hardy, ftout Fellows; I (up-
pofe you can make all this to (ignifie nothing more than a defign for a Game
at Cudgels. ^
Sir thriji. Levins. If your Lordfhip pleafe, we muft defire that one
Letter more may be read. Your Lordfhip hath been told of Commifla-
ons for the railing of an Army, here is a touch of them mentioned in this
Letter, found amongft M"" Harcourt s Letters too.
Lord Ch.Jufi. Look you, M"" Harcourt, you had beft attend, here is
another Letter found amongft your Papers, concerning (bme Commifii-
ons. You look ill to your Letters ^ you are to blame indeed, Har court.
Sir Chriji, Levins. 'Pray, Sir Thomas Dole/nan^ look upon that Papetj
and tell us how you came by it.
Sir Tho. Dolentan. This Letter in my hand I found amongft M'' Har-
court's Papers, about (bme two days after I found that other that was read
before. Having heard M"" Gates give in his Information to the Council^
That there were feveral Coramiluons given out to feveral Perfons, and
finding (bme doubtful Claufes and Expre(fions in the Letter, I did pre-
fent this Letter to the Council, and made a Mark upon it. Enquire what
is meant by the Word Patents.
Lord ch. JuJi. 'Pray let it be read, becaufe we (hall defire a little more
of their interpretation.
Cl. of Cr. It isflgned Chrijiopher Anderton, Hilton., February the 5^'*
X67I.
D"" Gates. Hilton, that is, Rome.
Lord ch. JuJi. M"" Harcourt, you underftand, that by Hilton is iheant
Rome ?
Harcourt. Yes, My Lord, I do.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Well, then go on, and read it.
Cl. ofCr. Worthy Sir, I know not from whence it proceeds, hut I
perceive that both your Letters and mine have had fortune by the way 5
for my Correfpondents with you complain, they hear not Jrom me^
whereas I write conjiantly intire Pacquets j and Jince the Bills I recei-
ved from your felf for S" William Goring, and for M"^ Ireland, Jrom M'
Shelly, I have not had one Letter but what I received this Week^, which
in part made recompence for the former, for it brought me three of yours^
and one of M'' Ireland'/, for which I render you many humble thanl^s,
and acknowledge the fifteen pounds from my Lord Caftlemain, though M'
Ireland made no mention of it in his. We are all here very glad of
the promotion of M"^ Thomas Harcourt. When I writ that the Patents
were fent., although I guefi for whom they were^ yet I knew not for ce^'
M
iai^i
(40
9ain^ hecaufe our Fatrons do not ufe to difcover things or refolutions
nil they kpote they have effe&. And therefore in thefe kind of matters
I dare not he too hajiy, left Jome might fay^ A Fools Bolt is foon Ibot.
Lord Ch. JuJi. What is the meaning of thefe Patents?
Fen wick- This Gentleman will tell you, my Lord.
whitehead. My Lord, they were the Patent for my being Provincial.
Lord ch. Jufi. How many Patents had you ?
Whitebread. But one, my Lord.
Lord ch. Jufi. Is that Patents ?
whitehead. Literte Patentes.
Lord ch. JuJi. Is it Patent or Patents ?
CL of Cr. Patents.
Lord. ch. Jufi. Read thofc words again.
Cl. of Cr. We are all here very glad at the promotion of Mr. Tho. Har-
vomt, when I writ that the Patents were fent, although Iguefs for whom
they were , yet I knew not for certain .y becaufe our Patrons do not ufe to
difcover things or Refolutions^ till they know they have effeH.
Lord ch. Jufi. Now you have not interpreted well this neither.
Sir ch. Levins. It is faid, I knew not for certain who (they) were for 5
tut to make it clear, I would defire Mr. whitebread to anfwer me one
Queftion, How long is it. Sir, fince you were made Provincial ?
whitebread. The ' of ^ o/l January was twelve-month.
Sir ch. Levins. And this was dated the 5^'" of February , which was
after your Commiffion.
Whitebread. That may be, and they not know till then.
Lord ch. Jufi. And lb you expound thofe latter words of the Letter,
That the Refolution of making you Provincial was not difcovered till the
effed: was known.
Whitebread. Becaufe it is not known, whether the Perlbn that is nomi-
nated might not be excepted againft: and it is Liters Patentes.
Lord ch. Jufi. But here is but one Perfon to anfwer the word Patents,
and there fhould be more than one man.
whitebread. Every Patent is called Liters Patentes , though it be but
for one perfon.
Mr. Recorder. They were in great doubt that you would refufe the
place, I warrant.
Dr. Oats. He is bound on pain of Damnation not to difbbey his Supe-
riours, if they chufe him to a place, he mufl take it upon him.
Whitebread. It is not the hrft, fecond, or hundredth time that one hath
been appointed by the Superiour to a place , and hath refufed it j and if I
had known the hundredth part of what I do now, of the trouble of the
place, I would never have accepted it.
Mr. Recorder. Ay, if you had known the difficulty of this Defign you
would never have ingaged in it, efpecially if you had known what is come
to pals.
Whitebread. No, Sir, I never had a hand in any fuch thing in all my
life: this is coram Deo that I now (peak, and as I am to appear before the
great Tribunal at the Day of Judgment, I know nothing of all this matter.
Dr. Oats. My Lord, thefe Patents, of which this Letter makes mention,
a great many of them came down in the months of April and May before.
Lord ch. Jufi. Methinks he interprets them plainer than you do.
Lord ch. Baron. Now what have you to fay everyone of you for your
elves, make your defence? Lord
(4;)
Lord Ch.Jufi.Mx.Whitebread^dioyoxihQgm.
Dr. Oats. While the Prifoners Evidence is calling in, I defire that ray
Witneffes may be fworn.
Mr. Jufl. Pemberton. Mr. Oats^ be quiet there is no need of it yet, till
they have made their defence.
Lord Ch. Jujt. But fend for them, that they may be ready.
Whitebread. My Lord, that which I have to fey for my felf is this, j
thank God, my Lord, I am not afraid of death 5 but I ftiould be very loth
to die unjuftly, and I hope your Lordftiip will confider, that every mans
blood is dear to him, and is concerned for his own life to prelerve it, he
ought to be allowed liberty and freedom to preferve himfeif as much as he
can. Life is a thing not to be thrown away , but charily to be lookt after,
and that there is luch a thing as taking away mens lives by Perjury as well
as by a Knife or Piftol, is without contradiction. Now whoever comes
againft a man for his life, I (uppofe he is to be looked upon not only by the
Prifoner, but alfo by the Jury and the Court, that he ought to be Probuf
Tejiif, and a man fit to be admitted to be a Witnels. Now I have fbme-
thing to offer, That Mr. Oats is not any fuch perfon. Your Lordfhip was
pleafed to fey. That he was the perfon who proved the Defign mentioned
in the Letter that was read. Now I hope your Lordfhip will give me leave
(and I hope I may do it without offence to this Court) to fey that he is
perjured in what he fays.
Lord Ch .JuJi. You mean that his Evidence is falfe, you may doit if
you can.
fVhitebread. He feys he came over hither, and was here prefent the
24*'' of April with me, and that I did appoint him to do fuch and fuch
things, and difcovered the whole Bufinefs to him. Now I defire your
Lordfhip would be pleafed to confider whether this were probable, and
whether I had not been a very much miftaken man all this while to trufi: a
man with fuch a Bufinefs, and whether I ought not rather to be fent to
Bedlam than Newgate for truffing fuch a man as he, whom by his own cbn-
feflion I never few till that time. Tis not rational that a man would truft
him 5 and then, my Lord, that this Bufinefs fhould be difeovered to him, a
man that depended wholly upon us to live, and had no livelihood but
what he had from us, who maintained him at St. Omers long as well as the
beft man in the houfe.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Did you do it}
Whitebread. Yes, my Lord, I did^
Lord Ch. Jufi. You fhould confider how in that you anfwer your felf
H'hitebread. I, that is, when I came to the Office, and I and my Prede-
ceflburs. When I was Superiour I found him not a fit man for that pur-
pofe and defign he pretended to. He was very zealous to be Ctltertained
amongft us, and therefore I defired him to abfent himfeif
Lord ch. JuJi. Why was he not fit to be employed among you ?
Whitebread. For feveral reafbns of our own; Firft of all it was doubt-
ful, whether he was a good Catholick 5 for he had oftentimes maintained
feveral Propofitions that were not foundly Catholick : and then fecondly,
he led a very idle life , and he was not found a man we were obliged to
accept of, and therefore we defired him to retire. And to thatpurpofe
we Wnifhed him, gave him a good Suit of Cloaths, and a Perriwig, and
four pounds in his purfe, and he promifed me to pay me again when he
he had fold his Library, which he feid he had a very good one in London,
buc
r(44)
but he never did. But that I (hould be fo ftrangely overfeen and mad, as
at the firft fight of lyich a man as this, to truft h^im with fuch a great In-
trigue as this was, and to write in fuch a plain ftrange manner, and fend
by Poft to M"" Dugdale^ as your Lordlhip did and juftly might wonder at,
had' been a madnefs. It was much that any man would write fo plain of
Ilich a thing. But then my Lord, the chief piling is this. That I hope your
Lordfhip will give us leave to produce our Witneffes to prove, that he was
not from S' Omert from the of December till the 2^^ of Jnne follow-
ing, and never lay out of the Houfe but one night from December till
June.
Lord Ch, Jufi- Name your Witneffes.
tvbitebread. I defire firft may be called.
Lord ch. JuJi. Call him 5 but I'll tell you ^hat is ftrange. You fey it is
wonderful that you ftiould truft a man you had fo little Opinion of his Abi-
lities or Fidelity, but I wonder that you ftiould maintain him after that.
Whitebread. No, my Lord, we did not.
Lord ch JuJi. You fey you did.
Whitebread. No my Lord, he pretends he was here in England fent o-
ver by us, but we will prove he was not.
Lord. ch. Juft. But you maintained him abroad?
IVhitebread. That was before?
Lord ch. Jufi. Is it fo great a wonder that you fhould take into your
Confidence and Confultation that man, whom for a confiderable time be-
fore you had maintained abroad ?
IVhitebread. But my Lord, I fuppofe there is forae difference between
charitable ads to a man in want and a Scholar, and trufting him with fuch
an Intrigue as this.
Fenmcl{. Pray my Lord, be pleafed to take notice, that this Mans Evi-
dence: all along is, that he few fuch and foch Letters from fuch and luch
Perfons. They have no Evidence but juft that they few fuch and fuch
Letters, and' how is it pofllble that a Man who was turned away from
Omers for his mifdemeanours, that I fhould (hew him all my Letters ? Now
my Lord, I have had a thoufand Letters taken from me, not any of thefe
Letters had any thing of Treafon in them, or foliciting of perfons to come
into England, let the Letters be produced, and then your Lordlhip will
fee what is in them. All the Evidence that is given comes but to this, there
is but faying and fwearing. I defie them all to give one probable Reafon
to fetisfie any reafonable unintereffed mans judgement how this could
be.
Lord Ch. Baron. There can be no reafon given why you fhould fign an
Inftrument to kill the King.
Lord ch. JuJi. You fay there is nothing but faying and fwearing, but
you do not confider what you fey in that matter. All the Evidence and
all the Teftiraony in all Tryals is by fwearing. A man comes and fwears
that he few fuch a Bond fealedy or heard filch words fpoken, this is faying
and fwearing, but it is that proof that we go by, and by which all mens
Lives and Fortunes are to be determined. But then fey you, 'tis wonder-
ful, that fince they fey they few fuch and fuch Letters, they (hould not
"produce them ; why ? they did not belong to them : Ay, but then fey
you, 'tis ftrange they (hould not find one Letter in all thofe numerous pa-
pers that were taken that contains any Trayterous matter 5 but I fay, 'tis
forty times more a wonder that one (hould be taken, than for all the reft
to
(45)
ta be undifcovered. I fuppofe M'^ Harcourt araongft thofe Papers that lie
let be furprized did not think that Letter that hath been read to have beerj
of fuch confequence, nor the fence of it to be fo bad.
Fennpick. I dream't no more of my apprehenfion when I was taken,than,
the day of my death, it was fo unexpefted, nor what I fliould be accufed
of: I had no fear of it, no thought of it, fo that I took nothing but of the
way. They took five Or fix thouiand pound Bonds and Bills, befides Letters 5
methinks fomething of the Lffedts of thofe Letters might be produced, and
fome of the defign appear. For God's lake, where are the CommilSons
figned, and monies paid ?
Lord Ch. JuJi. They talk of a Patent. M' Whitebread confirues it, that
it is his Commiifion 5 if fo, does it lie in Oates or Bedlows power to IheW
that Commiflion? (this is juft like that of the Bill of Exchange) neither
does it in any of the Letters.
FenwicJ{. Here is Hitjlyi my Lord.
Whiteb. My Lord, we pray, we may have the favour that they may be
fworn.
Lord eb,Juft.F!orth. they cmnot.
Lord ch. JuJi. In no Capital Cafe againft the King can the Witneffes for
the Prifoner be fworn, but I will fay this to the Jury, That they are not
fworn, is, becaufe they cannot, but the Jury is to take great heed of what
they fay, and to be governed by it, according to the credibility of the phr-'
fon and of the matter.
Gaven. My Lord, if you pleafe to give me leave, my Lord Cohyi in his
Ittfiitutes fayes exprefly. That there is no pofitive Law againft it, his words
are, there is not fo much as fcintiUa. Juris againft it.
Lord ch. JuJi. North. We know that the conftant ufage and praftice is
fo, and you cannot, produce any man, that in any Capital Cafe had his Wit-
nefles fworn againft the King.
Lord ch. JuJi. My Lord Co^e fays otherwife. That the Evidence ftiould
be fo plain that nothing could be anfwered to it, and therefore no Evi-
dence ftiould be (worn againft the King.
Gaven. My Lord, thofe are the words of my Lord Coke.
Lord ch. JuJi. You argue againft the known pradfice of all Ages.
Lord ch. Juft. North. There never was any man in a Capital Caufe
fworn againft the King. The Common Law is the Cuftorae of the King-
dom, and we are bound to know it, and muft all be governed by it.
tvhitebread. In M"^ Jre/d;«d's Tryal, p4^. 35, 36. he fays, he came over
with Sir John tP'arner., Father Williams., and M"" Hiljley from Omers.
M' JuJi. Fembert. Nay, you muft not refort to the printed Tryals for
Evidence. ' .
Feavpick: If we can prove him perjured at any time, I hope we
may.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Suppofe upon the taking of thofe printed Tryals they
miftake, (hall M"^ therefore be thought guilty of perjury? If you
have any thing to ask of your Witneffes which you can apply to the Evi-
dence given now, you may.
FenwicL M"^ Oates. did not you your felfown then you came over with
Hiljly .<?
D"" Gates. Ask me any queftion about what I have given to daj^, and if
the Bench think it reafonaWe I will anfwer it.
N
Fenmc^
(4<5)
Fenrpick; My Lord, he did then affirm that he came over with thef^
perfons, in which he is forfworn.
Lord ch. Jufi. He is not convifted of Perjury, and therefore that muft
hot be urged.
Fenvficl^. My Lord, we will proVe by Witneffes that were at the Tryal,
that he did affirm fo : And t do defire how to know of you M*^ Oates whe-
ther ever you came ovet With M' Hiljly §
Oates. That which i faid then, and that which I fay now, is, (be^
caufe you fhould nbt puzzle your felves) that one M^ Hilfy did come over
with us when we did.
Hiljly. My Lord, I did not.
Lord ch. JuJi. How can you tell ^
Hiljly. I left him at Omers.
Lord ch. JuJi. What fay you, M' Gates .<?
Oates. 'Tistrue, M*^ Hijly did leave me at S' Omers., becaufe he wferit
out a Sunday morning, and I came out of the Monday morning, but I over^
took him at Calk. i
Hiljly. My Lord, that is falfe, and I have a great many here that cant
prove it.
Lord ch. JttJi. What Religion are you of?
Hiljly. I am only to forve His Majefty.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Are you not to ferve God too?
Hiljly. I am firft to ferve God, and then His Majefty<
M^ J »ft. P ember ton. Are you a Catholick?
Lord ch. Jufi. Are you a Roman Catholick ?
Hiljlf. Yes, my Lord, I am.
M"" JriJi. Pember. Be not afhamed of your Religion, do not deny tHat,
your t'rovincial here can give you a difpenfation for what you fay.
Hiljly. I hope a Roman Catholick may be a lawfull witnefs ?
Lord ch. JuJi. Yes, I deny it not. This is that you fay, you left him
at S* Omers 5 you muft call more Witneffes to back him : Mafter Oates
fayes 'tis true you left him at Omers , but he overtook you at Ca^
Ik.
Oates. This Gentleman loft his money at Calky and Father WiUiams
did relieve him by my means.
Lord Ch. JuJi. What fay you to that ?
Hiljley. Why my Lord, yes, it is true I did lofe my money there, but it
is nothing to the purpofe, for I will affirm, I was never in the fhip with
him in all my life.
D' Oates. I defire he may be asked, whether he be in the degree of a
Prieft or not ?
Lord ch. JuJi. That Would be a hard queftion to put to hlra to make
him accufe himfelf. It would bring him into danger of Treafbn.
M' JuJi. Pemberton. He is a Boy very fit to make a Jefiiile of!
Lord ch. JuJi. How Could he then come to know this ?
Hiljley. I confefs 'tis true, that M' Gates did never come over with me.
And I have Witnefles to prove that they faw him there next day at S' O-
mers, and two or three feveral weeks after.
Sir Chrijiopher Levins. M*^ Oates hath another Circumftance to prove
itby.
Oates. He Went away from us by the way, and did not come up
with us to London.
Hiljley.
(47)
Wljley. I know how he underftood this: There was a Gentleman that the
Witnelles will prove he was very familiar with the of May, that told him.
Lord Ck JuJi. Is that Gentleman here ?
WlJIy. Here is one here to prove it.
Lord Ch. JuJi. And did he tell him how you loft your mony ?
Hi If ley. "Yes, my Lord, Iluppolefo.
Lard ch. Juft. I fpeak (erioufly;, Idonotunderftandhowhecouldcome
by thefe things.
Parry. My Lord, I can teftifie if it were lawful for us to fwear, and prove
that he was at Saint Omers that day, when he (ays he came over,
iW C^!. What isyour name ?
Tarry. My name is WiUiam Parry.
Lord ch. Juf. What Gountry-man are you ?
Parry. I am a Flintjhire Man.
Lord Ch.Juft. Saint Omers}
Parry. He was there thr,t 2 5''' day, that day he lays he came over;
Lord ch. JuJi. Was he there all day ?
Parry. He did not ftir thence all the day.
Lord ch. JuJi. How can you tell that?
Parry. I din'd with himj that day he went into the Infirmary, he did
not go Out of the Colledg, he was fick;
Fenwick. M"" Parry, how long did M"^ Oaies ftay there, atSt.O^^/^
Parry. He ftaid till after the 20''' of 'june, I am lure 5 for on the 20*^
of 'june I know he was prefent by a vety good circumftance, he was at aa
Action of ours, aLatinePlay.
Oates, My Lord, as to the going into the Infirmary at that time,
I deny it. My Lord, (if your Lordlhippleafe) I will (hew that this Gen-
tleman is not only a Votary of the Jefuits, but bath been one of the So-
dality leveral years. And they have Dilpenlations, and are bound by an
implicite obedience to fay what the Jefuits bid them, who are their Superi-
ours.
Lord ch. Jnfl. What fay you to the 20'^" of June, the time he laysyou
were there at the feeing of the Play ?
D' Oates. My Lord, as to that twentieth of June, I was there, and there
was an Aftion at that time^ for I was then returned thither from London.
Parry. I deny all that, for he never ftirf d out of the Colledge.
Lord ch. JuJi. Youngman, in what Quality were you there
Parry. I was a Student there, a Poet.
Lord ch. Jufi. Howfcanyou fay he didndt ftir thenceall the while.>
Parry. I know by a particular thingI din'd and lupp*d with him there,
but when he was in thelnfirraary 5 but the particular pallage was this, He
did there fall out with a Gentleman that was in the Infirmary too.
Lord Ch. JnJl. When was that?
Parry. It was at the time that he fays he came away.
Lord ch. Jufi. When went he in ? ,
Parry. The 25"" of Ayril, Old Style, and ftaid a matter of three or four
days. _ -
Gates. Will you be pleafed to take notice of this? he lays that Hitjley
left me at Saint Omers when hecame away, and that the nextday he di-
ned with me, and that I went into the Infirmary, which, he lays, was the
25'^'' of April, Old Style. Now we will run to ai^ue ad hominem'y li
this vVere the 25'^ of April, Old Style, how did M' WiUiams meet
with'
(4^)
with Mr; Hilfy at Calif, and reftore him his money,when the 24^ old ftile
lAutf^iUiam was at the Confult in London .<?
Lord Ch. JuJi. When was it that you fty Mx.HilJly was at St.Omers?
Fenvpicki Anfwer my Lords Queftion,
Parry. He went away the 24*'' of April, as I remember.
Lord Ch. JnJi. What, old ftile ?
Farrfi Yes, old ftile according to the reckoning there.
Dr. Oats. But, my Lord, upon the Oath that I have taken *, if he meari
new ftilev all that this Gentleman hath faid about this is falfe, except that
I was there the 20*''of
Lord Ch. Jufi. Was it new ftile or old ftile that you fay Mr. Hiljly
went away ?
Mr. Recorder. He does not know new ftile from old ftile.
Parry. He went the 24''', that is the old ftile beydnd Sea.
Whitebread. Idodefirehe may anlwer, whether he does know that
Mr. Odtr was ever out of the houfe from the time he came in December till
June, but one night.
Parry. No, he never was out but one night at Watton,
Lord Ch. Jufi. From what time to what time ?
Parry. It was but two days and one night.
Lord Ch. Jufi. What time was it that he was there firft >
Parry.' He came thither in December.
'^Lord Chi Jufi. And he did ftay there all the while ?
Parry. He cfid not ftir from the Colledge till the end of June 5 and ne-
ver went out but a day or two, as I know of
Lord ch. Jufi. Not as you know of, but might not he go, and you not
kflowofit?
I am fare of it.
Lffra ch. Jufi. How can you tell ?
Parrjf. Not a Scholar goes from thence to England, but the whole Col-
ledge rings of it.
Ghwtfi. And then, my Lord, when they go out they go in Secular
Cloaths, that none but muft know when any perfon leaves the Colledge.
Dr. Oats. My Lord, in fuch cafes, though 'tis true in a general fenfe, yet
it is but a general Rule, and every general Rule admits of its exceptions;
and my Cafe was a particular Exception. I put on the Habit of the Houfe
as fbon as I did return from London , and did not appear as if I had gone
out of the Houfe, nor did I know that it was known that I had been out 5
for I did never appear in the Colledge in a Secular Habit.
whitebread. What his Cloaths were, does not change the place he fate
in 5 he being ancienter than the Boys, had a priviledge to fit in a parti-
cular place, which muft be known to all the Houfe at Dinner and Supper.
He was vifible every day there.
Lord ch. JuB. I do believe it 5 and therefore he fays, not only that he
was reported to be there, but that he few him there almoft every day.
Then another Witnefs for the Prifoner fiood Hp.
K.
Lord Ch. JuB. What fay you, young Lad ?
Doddington. I fay, my Lord
Lord Ch. Jufi. What is your Name ?
Doddington, Doddington.
Dr.
(49)
Dr. Oat J. Pray, ttiy Lord, ask him if he went by that Name at St. OmefSi
Ifr. Juft. r ember ton. What was your Name at St. Omers i?
D}d,dingtotri My Name was Hollis there.
Lord Ch. Jffi- How old are you ?
Doddittgion. Eighteen years and an half!
Lord ch. Jnji. What can you fay ? Where was Mr. Oatt ?
Dodditfgton. He never went out of the Colledgebut one night t#
fVattoff, till the end of June.
l ^ord ch. Juft. When came he into the Colledge ?
Dodditigtov. A fortnight before chrifimas , I did not mind the dayt,
be (ays himfelfit was the lo^'' of Decemier>.
Lord ch, Juft. Was he there till June .<?
Doddingtott. Yes, he never went out till June but one night.
Lord Ch. Juft. Where was that ? htWatton^
Doddington. Yes, my Lord.
Lord Ch. Juft. How do you know that?
Dodditrgton. I only know that by what all the houfe (aid.
Lord ch. Juft. Did you fee him every day, except that day ?
Doddiugtou. I cannot (ay I faw him every day, becaule he was in the
Infirmary once, and he was there that very day after Mr. Hilfty went
away.
Lord ch. Juft. What day Was it that Mr. Hilfty went away?
Doddington. The 24*^ of Agril new ftile, and that day he fell (ickj
and went into the Infirmary the next.
Lord ch. Juft. What day of the week was that ?
Doddington. It was of a Sunday.
Lord ch. Juft. And when did you fee Mr. Oats ^
Doddington. On Monday or Tuefday, I am not certain.
Lord Ch.Juft. How often did you fee him from the 24^^ of April to
June .<? Did you (ee him every other day ?
Doddington. Yes, that I am fure of for every other day^ I am not certain
every day. n
Lord ch. Juft. Are you pofitive ?
Jury. We defire to know what time of the year he was in the Infir-
mary.
Doddington. I difcourfed with him in the Infirmary two or three days
after Mr. Hilfty went away.
Lord Ch. Juft. .But what time of the year was it ?
Doddington. He Was there firft in Winter, and then afterwards he was
in at this time, which was in April.
Lord ch. Juft. Have you any more to fay ?
^Doddington. I can (ay more, that I (aw Mr. Oats the fecond of May with
one Blood or Burnaby, and I am fure I faw him in his Company.
Lord ch. Juft. Where did yOu fee him ?
Doddington. I faw him walking in the Garden with Mr. Btrrnaby. r
Air. Juft. Ten/berton. When did you come into England ^
Doddington. I came over the 24'^'' of April.
Lord Ch. Juft. How long have you been in England i
Doddington. About two months.
Air. Juft. Pemberton. Why did you come over^ were you lent for over
upon this occafion ?
Doddington. No, I was not.
O Mt.
(5^)
Mr. Juji. VemhertoK. Why did you come over)
Doddingtcm. I came over partly upon the Kings Proclamation^
Lord ch.JjtJi. What Proclamation was that) .
Lord ch. Jufi. North. That thofe thai vvere in the Seminaries (hotiid
come over again.
Dodditigton. And partly becaufe I had not my health.
Fs>7vpic\. Mr. Clifford ^ what do you know about Mr. O4//S comisag
from St. Omers .<?
Lord ch. Jufi. When came you from St. C)mers -
GifiCord. I came over about a month ago.
Lord ch. Jufi. Upon what occafion ?
Gififord. To juftihe that Mr. Oats was there all the while that he fayi
he was herCi
Lord Ch. Jufi. You Ipeak like an lloneft man there is no hurt ir!
that.
Fcnwicf. We did fend for him over.
Lordch.jutf. Wheti did you fee Mr. 0<2f J there?
Gififord. 1 fa w him the firft of May was tWelve-month With us, and tho
11. 01 ^pril.
Lord ch. JuSi. And how long after that )
Gifford. I was in his Company for a whole week after, I am fure.
Lord ch. JuJi. You fay^the firft of May he Was there, how can ybil
tell ? '
Gifford. The firft of May there came one Mr. Eufnahy to the Colledge^
and he fell into acquaintance with him, and I faw him With him. He was
with us an whole week at leaft every day after Dinner. We have an houf
always after Dinner to recreate in, and this Gentleman was there with us
and Mr. Bttrnahy \ for Mr. Oats feeing us in the Garden at firft, put himfelF
itito our Company, and kept with us.
Lord ch. Ju §i. Was he not in the Infirmary )
Gifi^ord. Not at that time, my Lord.
Lord ch. Jufi. When was he in the Infirmary )
Gijford. The day after Htjfiy went away^
Lord Ch. Jufi. Do yoti remember that?
Gifford. Yes, I do.
Lord Ch. Jufi. North. How long did he flay in the Infirmary ?
Parry. About three days.
Lord ch. Jufi. And for how long together did you fee him after MK
Hz//^s departure ?
Gifford. I can fwear that I faw him at leaft till Jum^ if I can believe tny
own eyes.
Lord ch. JuB. Your Religion does not allow you to believe your own
eyes.
afford. \ can in my Confcience fay, I believe I did fee him every day
or every other day.
Lord Ch. JuB. Which do you fay, Did you fee him every other day,
or every day ?
Giffprd. If I fay I faw him every other day, that is fufficient.
Lord Ch. JuB. Do you know that he went out of the CoUedge at any
time)
afford. Yes, he went for one night.
Lord ch. Jufi. Whither ?
(50
afford. IVatton.
Lord Cb. Jnfi. What did he go thither for ?
afford. For his Relaxation.
Lord ch. Jttji. How came you to take fuch particular notice of him that
he was there ^
afford. \x. is impoffible but we (hould fee him, and take notice of hirii,
for we dine all together in one Room, and we could not but take notice
of him, for he was at a diftinft Table by hirafelf.
Lord ch. JuJi. How many are there that dine in one Room?
G/fford. One hundred and fifty.
Lord ch. Jufi. How could you know him when there were fb many ?
afford. He was at a diftind Table by himfelf, between the Boys and
the Religious.
Then Jiood up another, one Palmer.
Lord ch. Jufi- Well, what do you ask him ?
Fenroick; The fame Queftion as the reft.
Lord ch. JuJi. When came you from S' Outers i
Taimer. I came two or three months ago.
Lord ch. Jufi. Why did you come over?
Palmer. I had no mind to ftay any longer.
Lord ch. Jufi. Where does your Father live?
Palmer. By Wind for.
Lord Ch. Juii. When did you fee Mafter Gates .<?
Palmer. I faw him the firft day of Map new Style, and I know it fbt a
particular reafbn 5 there were ftrangers dined at the Colledge that day ^
whereupon Mafter Gates, and feveral other Boys played at Nine Pins, in
the Afternoon I faw them.
Lord ch. Jufi. Why, you do not count all Boys there, do you ?
Palmer. All but thofe that are the Religious.
Lord ch. Jufi. Why, you did not count Mafter Gates a Boy, did you ?
Palmer. He was none of the Religious: He fate indeed at a Table by
himfelf, but he went to School with the Boys, and we called all the Scho-
lars Boys.
Lord ch: Jufi. How often did you fee him?
Palmer. Tie tell your Lordfhip, I faw him the firft oiMay, for that rea-
fbn j the fecond of May I faw him with Mafter Burnaby, a man that he had
never feeri in all his life before, and we wondred that he had fb much ira^
pudence to infinuate himfelf into his Company.
Lord ch. Jufi. What is he ?
Palmer. He is a Gentleman that is now in Flanders.
Lord ch. Jufi. How do you know that Mafter Gates had no acquaint
tance with him before ?
Palmer. Becaufe I know he was in England, and came over while Ma-
fter Gates was aftually at S^ Gmers.
Lord Ch. Jufi. But he might be of his Acquaintance in England.
Palmer. I heard Mafter Burnaby fay, he never faw Mafter Gates in all his
Jife before. The fecond of May I faw him at the A6lion, the fifth of May
Mafter Kil/ingbec^went away, and I faw Mafter adually there then,
and one Mafter Poole Went away 5 and I remember Gates was there for a
particular reafbn 3 he was a kind of a weak man, fbmething foft, not over-
wife
I
( 51)
wife, and we were asking him why he would go away by hirafelf, and
talking of it afterwards, fayes Mafter Gates, I will not fay pofitively thofe
were the words, but that was the fence, He does not go alone, for there
goes Efquire Poole and Efquire Fool together. The eleventh day we
had an Aftion, a Play alfo whereupon there was a particular place for the
Muficians to play in, where no one elfe was to fit ^ Mafter Gates would fit
there, and thereupon there was one Mafter IVatfon quarrell'd with him,
and they had like to have fought.
Lord ch. JuJi. This was the i of A/aj> /?
Palmer. Yes, my Lord, new ftile, and the other was the 5'^
Lord ch. JyJi. But you few him betwixt that time.^
Palmer. Yes, My Lord, I did.
Lord ch. JuJl. And fo for how long ?
Palmer. 1 few him at four a clock in a morning reading Father WorJley%
Controverfies, and fo for feveral daycs together.
Fenvpick. Did he go away before June .<?
Palmer. No, he did never ftir till June.
Sir Chrifi. Levins. Did not you go fometime by the name of Sanders
or Hill ^
Palmer. No, only by the name of Thomas Palmer.
Sir Chriji. Levins. Hark you Sir, who maintained you at St. Gmers ^
Do not you know one Mr Car^l.«?
Palmer. No, my Father maintained me.
Lord ch. JuJi. Who is your Father }
Palmer. Sir Philip Palmer.
Lord ch. JuJi. What Country Gentleman is he ?
Palmer. BHckjnghamJhire.
M' J«Ji' Pemberton. He is Cup-bearer to the King.
Then Jiood up one Majier Cox.
Lord ch. JuJi. How long have you been from Saint Gmers /
Cox. Two months.
Lord ch. JuJi. What Country-man are you ?
Cox. I was born at Brujfels to ferve you.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Do you know Mafter Gates ?
Cox. Yes, I did very well.
Lord Ch. JuJi. Where?
Cox. At Saint Gmers.
Lord ch. JuJi. When ?
Cox. I left S' Gmers feven months ago, and I came away in the month
of November after Mafter Gates. My Lord, I can prove that he was there
in April and May. I went from S' Gmers to Brujfels, and from Brujfels I
came ftraight to London.
Lord Ch. JuJi. But when did you fee Mafter Gates there ?
Cox. I can prove I few him at S^ Gmers when he fays he was in England,
and that by this Gircumftance. Mafter Pool who was my Mufick Mafter
was fick there, and Mafter Gates was often with him.
Lord ch. JuJi. Were you there all the time he was there ?
Cox. Yes, I was, till he went away.
Lord ch. JuJi. When did he go away ?
Cox. Mafter Gates went away in the Month of July.
Lord ch. JuJi. Are you fure of that ?
Cax
I
Ox. Yes, my Lord, lam.
Lord a. Jftfi. Not in Jf*»e?
Cox. No, my Lord,
JLt'ri C/r. Why he differs from all the reft? ,,
Cox. My Lord, I can prove he was at St. Omers when he fays he was
in LngUnd. !
Lord Ch. J. Why whatmonethdidhego away.? . -
Cox. My Lord,I can prove that Mr. Oates was never abfent from St.O-
mers, till he went away for good and all.
LordCh.J. When was that?
Cox. He went after the Confult of the Jefuits, which he fays was in
LngUnd in A^ril. -
LordCh.J. Come, come, Anfwer me plainly if you can in what
moneth Mr. Oates left St. Omers ?
Cox. I fay Mr. OAtes was never abfent fromi St. Omers till the Cohftilt
of the Jefuites was over, which he hath confeffed himfelf to be at.
Lord Ch. JuJi. When was that ?
^ Cox. Why it was after M^/, 'tis no matter what the moneth was whe-
Jnrse or July. Q at which the people Uughed.^
Cox. What do y oii laugh at Sirs ? Why, fiippofe I tiiiftake the moneth
it is no matter.
Lord Ch.Jufl. Look you we are now upon a Queftion of time, and you
cannot tell that a man is there at a certain time, unlefs you can prove the
certain time when hecime away?
Cox, f can prove that he was there till after the Confultof the Jefuites,
arid then the people laughed again.')
Lord Ch. Juft. Ay, I believe you there, 'tis enough fot you, but you
have done a very great prejudice to thofe perfbns that you came for, for
you come to prove the Conclufion, but do not take notice of what Me-
diums you are to u(e. Say you, if I can but prove that he was there till
after the Confultof the Jefuites, that is the thing in Queftion, and I
need no more,but this is ferving a turn only: Pray can you tell me what
moneth he came to St. Omers ?
Cox. Yes, he came thither in the moneth of
Lordch.Jiijl. And when did he go away again.?
Cox. He was never abfent from St. Omers out of the view df the
Scholars, except one night that he wont to Watton, and one day wherr
he Was in the Infirmary, but even at that time he was feenbyfome of
the Scholar^
Lord Ch. Juf. Yet you cannot tell the time that he went away ?
Cox. He was never abfent all the while.
Mr. Ju/l. Windham. Do you knoW whert the Confult of the JefuiteS
was? upon what day?
Cox. He fays he went away with Mr.BUflef, but he did not, I caA
prove the contrary.
Lord Ch. Jujl. No, iio> he fays he followed him and overtook him at
Calls.
Cox. Thatisfalfe, and! can prove it by this Circumftance: one
Mr. Conque/l was to go for England that day, and he came into the Re-
fedory, and told us a ftory of this Mr. Conquefis being unwilling to fife
in the morning to go for E.ngland.
LordCh.J^. When did he tell that ftory?
p Co*. That
(J4)
Cox. That day that he was to go for JE«|;/W.
Lord Ch. Jufi. How long was th^at after Mr. Biljly went away
Cox. The day after.
Gaven. When was the time that Mr. Conqaefl went for "BngUnd ?
Cox. In themonethof MaysLS we count.
Lord ch. Jufi. What time in the moneth of May ?
Cox, Itwasthe 6fth: and he fays that Mr. Pool and Mr. Nevill
■Were in LngUnd with him, but I can teftifie that they were not abfent,
for one of them was my Mufick-mafter.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Was he there all ?'
Cw. Yes, that I canteftifie upon my Oath.
Lord (^h. Jufi. And all June?
Cox. Yes, my Lord, but if I prove he was not in May in England it
is fufEcient.
L^rd Ch. Jufi. Upon my word you defervea fliarp Penance for run-
ning into that fault z or 3 times'- you have done them no kindnefs in
this matter.
Guv^efty If your Lordfliip wil-J take advantage of every Circumftance,
young men may not remember the particular day of his going away.
Lord'Gh. Jufi. But you hear how he delivers his Evidence, 'tis as if
he had been inftruded, you muft come and prove that Gates was not in
England in JpHl and May, and that will do our bufinefs, for he tells you
it is fufficient, but we will have it proved to fatisBe us.
Cox. But why fliould I fay more than I know ?
Lord Ch. Jufi. You mean, more than you are inftruded about. I only
ask you one fhort queftion. Do you know when Mr. Gates left SuOmers 5
Name the moneth.
■xCaven, If you don't remember the time, fay fo ?
Cox. My Lord I cannot remember it.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Then call another. Who fiood up.
Lit.Gates. My Lord I defire they may be examined aparE
L.C.J. You need not trouble your felf about that* What is your name.?
Billing. My name is Bhomas Bllilng.
Lord Ch. Jufi. When Came you from St. Owm?
Bllilng. I came 3 moneths ago I think my Lord. -
Lord ch. Jufi. -Do you know Mr. Gates ?
Billing. Yes, my Lord, very well.
, 'Lfird ch. Jufi. When did you fee him at St. Gmers ?
Biding. My Lord,! faw him when he came the fame day,or the day after,.
Lord Ch. Jufiy When was that ?
Biding. \n December my Lord, the lotho^ December.
Lord Ch. Jufi, Andheftaid there how long?
Biding. Till the latter end of June.
Lord Ch, Jufi. Was he never abfent ?
Biding. I can very well remember that he went to Watt on in the Chrifi-
mas. I was then id the Infirmary my felf, and he and his Companion came
in there to fee us, and faid he had been at Watton.
Lord Chyjufl. But he was twice in the Infirmary, was he not ?
■Biding. Yes, my Lord.
Lordch. Jufi. When was the fecond time?
Biding. 'The fecond time was in Aprilfl went in the week before Chrifi'
mas', on SXi \Ihomas of Canterbury s dty \ came out again.
.. Lc.J. But
$
oo
Lordch.J»{l. Butyoufayithe feeoiKidme. wasih
HiUing, Yes. ' • ' . '
Lordch.Ju^. Howlpogwdshetlyerethen? . ,1: ^ ; ' .
Billing. Truly I was not with bini then, hut I thmk j br 4' dayes;
• Lordch..,J, Wereyouih the CloUedgethen? I ... /I'hjA
Biding. Yes, my Lord, I was. ■ ■ m;! n ' . ,
herd Ch. Jufi. Did you fee him in the Collcdge from time to time l
Biding. Yes, I did.
Luordch.Jttft. How long.? •
Biding. For all the time that he ftaid.
Lord Ch, Jufi. How lorig was that .?
Biding. That was from December till the latBer end of Jme.,
Lord ch. Jufi. Was he there all ?
Biding. Yes, my Lord. He fays he was 8 days in England, but he could
not be fo, for he entred himfelf iqto the Sodalky the zph ot March, and
not long after his admiflion, he was put to read every Siinday mbrning
at 6 a Clock. And after that he began once to rhad he never was at^ent
from that time till the time he went away.
Lord Ch. Jufi. Why, did he read when he was fickt
Biding. He was not fick upon the Sunday.
LordCk.J. You fay he was fick in ,
Biding. Yes, my Lord. . ^ . .
Lord Ch. J. But was he not fick of a Sunday in dpril? io
Biding, He was only a little indifpofed,andfrequented the Infirmary
in the day time for amatiter of j or 4 dayes.
Lord ch. J. Did he read at the time he was fick in the Infirmary f
Biding. He was not fick an whole week. c; .■
Lord Ch. J. Did it reach to a Sunday.? - . .
Biding. No, my Lord, that J remember. ' - "
LordCh.J. How long did he continue there.?
Biding. Till towards the latter end of
LordCh.J. Did youfee him once in a or 3 days.?
Biding. Yes, my Lord, I did conftantly. And upon the Secorid Of
May, I very particularly remember, looking out into the Garden, I faw
Mr. Blunt walking in the Garden, and Mr. O/rtw with him: And Oh-
ferving him to be very intimately familiar with him, -1 asked fome that
were with me, Does this Sampjon, for he went by that flame in the
Colledge, fays I, does Sampfon know Dick Blunt f no faid thty, and
we wondered at his Confidence having no greater acquaintance^ I
faw him that day walking in the Garden with that Blunts
LordCh.J. ThatwasthefecondofM^;'? C
Biding. Yes, my Lord. ' '
Lord Ch. J. And he was conftantly in this Gentlemahs Company
that day ?
Biding. Yes, and moreover the fame day this Sampfon was walk-
ing with one John Kufhton in the Garden, and feeing me walk alone,
Jhomasyhys he, have you never a Gompanion.? No Sampfon faid I, well
faid he prithe come to us. So I was with him walking a little While,
and then this Blunt and one Henry Howard were playing one with ano-
ther, throwing ftones at one anothers Shins. At which he was dif-
pleafed, and faid, if they would not be quiet he would go tell the
Re^-lor. Howard was hafty and fpoke angerly to him, and faid if he
would
would not be quiet he would beat-him : B.urMr, perfifting, and
daring of him, fays he, what do you dare me ? and comes up to him and
throws up Mr. Ones his heels. With that Mr. lookt very fretfully
upon him and withdrew himfeif into the Iilfirmary,as we thought to fpeak
to the' Reftor. And by thefe partiHukrs, and fuch as thefe I remember fo
have feen him every day, one day with another, or every other day at
St. Oniers till he went away which was in
Then flood up another, one Townelj.
LordCh.f. Come Mr.Tow/tel/, do youkao^^Mr. Gates ^
lownely. Yes, my Lord.
h.oyd Ch. f. When came you frOm St. Omers ?
\ Xovpneley. I came a week before Eajler.
Lord Ch, f. When faw you this fame Mr. Gates at St. Omers ?
'Xovoneley, I faw hitri in lune.
. Lord Ch. f. When elfe s'
toxvneley. In May. r.
Lord Ch. f. When eifc ?
tovcnely. In Afril.
Lerdch.f. Was he therein all April^ allM^^, andally/^«<f?
Lereneley. No, not ail He went away asltakeit aboutthe ior)6»
of Jme.
L. c.f . Pray how often did you fee him ? Did you fee him every day ?
Howffely. J converfed with him every day. He was partly a Scholar
and partly a Father : and fat at a Table by himfelf. He went to School
as a Scholar; 'tis true indeed, he did not learn as the refl of the Boys did,
but Be went to School as the Boys did, and was at a Table from the
Fathers as the Boys were, but apart and alone.
Lordch. p. But how often did you fee him.? was it every other day,?
"loronelej. Yes, I believe I did.
LordCh. p. What for all April and all May I
Joveneley. Yes.
LordCh. f. How came you to take fuch particular notice of it that
you can fay, you faw him every other day?
loxvneley. If I conflantly dine with one, or if he beat a Angle Table
alonejhe cannot beabfent, but I muft take notice of it: and he wasnei-
ther as a Father nor as a Scholar but betwixt both, and therefore the
more to be taken notice of.
LordCh. Jufl. This then you fay. He fitting by himfelf and being
diflinrflfrom all the others, you might more eafily obferve his abfence
than any others. This is that you fay?
"Xovonely. Yes, my Lord.
Ldrdch.f. You fay well. Call another.
^ ■ Then flood up one Fall.
Lord ch. p. When came you from St. Omers ?
Fall. About Two moneths ago.
. LordCh. J. When did you fee Mr.
; I all. I faw him when I was in my Syntax,and now I am in Poetry,
f Lerdch.f. What mbneth did you fee him in ?
Fall. When
. (57) _ . , ^ ^
FaU. When he came firll as I remember it was at Chriftmas.
Lord Ch. J. Chriftmas laft ? <,
No, it,wasChriftmas was twclvemoneth, Chriftmas 1677.
LordCFf. How lohg did you fee him there ? . ^
Fall. I faw him there from that time till fuae, only when he was at
Wat ton. •-
LordCh. f. Was he never fickf , !
Fall. 1 faw him in the Infirmary my felf. '
LordCh.^. How can you tell when a man is fick? . r' ^ ,
Fall, I do not pretend to do that, but he was in the Infirmary as a
fick man.
Lord Ch. f. How came you to take particular notice of it ?
Fall. I took noparticularnotice, but I have recolleded my memory.
Lord Ch. f. Upon what occafion ?
Fall. Upon this occafion.
Lord ch. 1. How often did you fee him ?
Fall. I faw him every day.
Lord C^-1' How long have you been in the Convent ?
FaU. My Lord I have been there two years and an halt
Then flood up fobn Halt.
Lord Ch. f. When came you from St. Omers ?
Hall. In ply-, my Lord.
Lord Ch. f. How long have you been there t
Ball. Seve.n years and upwards.
Lord Ch. f. How long is it fince ydu came from thence ?
Hall. In in the year 1678.
Lord Qh. J. And did you fee Mr. Oates there then?
HaU. No, my Lord.
Lord Ch. f. When did you fee him there then?
Hall. I faw him there in and
LordCh. f. What all funet . •
Hall. No, my Lord.
Lordch.J. How long in fmel .
Hall. He went away about the Twenty third of fune.
Lord ch. J. How came you to take fuch particular notice Mr, Oates
was there all this while ?
Hall. 1 was a fervant there.
LordCh. f. In what way ?
Hall. A Refedorian, a Butler.
LordCh. f. Did you keep Books of what meat arid drink they had ?
Hall. No, I laid their Table,drew their Beer and laid the Bread.
Lord Ch.f. And did you ferve Mt.Oates with bread and beer every day ?
Hall. Yes my Lord, moftdays.
Lord Ch. f. Did you ferve the Infirmary f
HaU. No, my Lord.
LordCh.^. But you fay you ferved him every day?
HaU. Yes, my Lord, the moflof the time he remained there, T ac-
knowledge he was in the infirmary.
LordCh. f. How long.?
HaU. Four or five days, or thereabouts.
t.C.f. Was
(J8)
L. Ch. f w Was he in the Colledge in
Hall. Yes my Lord, all along.
L.Ch.1. Andailil^4;?
Hall. Yes my Lord, 1 faw him all May, I laid his Table near the door
at a particular place where he always fat.
Jury. My Lord,we defire to know what employment he is of now ?
L. ch. J. Hall, what made you come inxo Ungland ?
Hall. My Lord, 1 had not my health there.
L. Ch. J. How long had you lived there ?
Hall. Seven years and upwards.
L. Ch. f. And when began you to be fick ?
Hall, i had not my health at Chriftmas in December, 1677.
L. Ch. J. What employment have you here, for you had a good place
there?
Hall. I live at home with my Father and my friends.
hordCh.J. What is your Father? where lives he?
Hall. Heis a Gentleman, h^Vivcs in B.adaorJhfre.
Lord ch. J. When came you to London ?
Hall. Icameto l^ly, idyS.
LordCh. J. But you fay your Father is in Radnorfhire, when came
you here to London ?
Hall. I have been here about a moneth, I was fummoned up as a
Witnefs.
Then one Damson was called who did not appear, and one Man-
jhell appearing,but fpeaking French and no Englijh, and an In-
terpreter not being ready^he was for the prefent bytheconfent
of the Prilbners fet afide. And then flood up one Cook.
Lord Ch. f. When came you from St. Omers ?
Cooke. In January laft.
Lord Ch. J. And where have you been ever fince ?
Cooke. Here in Town my Lord.
LordCh. J. Does your Father live here in Town ?
Cooke^ No, my Lord.
LordCh. J. Do your friends live here?
Cooke. No, my Lord.
Lord Ch. J. You came over upon this occafion did you ?
Cooke. Yes, my Lord.
Lord Ch. J. When did you fee Mr. Oates there ?
Cooke. I faw him in lafl fune.
Lord Ch. J. And was he there in July.?
Cooke. No, my Lord.
LordCh.j. What time did he go away ?
Cook. The ^yh, the Eve of the Feafl of St. John Baytlfl.
Lord Ch. J. How do you know ?
Cooke. I made him fome Clothes.
LordCh. f. Are you a Taylor?
■ Cooke. Yes.
Lord Ch. J. How often did you fee him ? ^ .
Cooke. Every day.
Lord Ch. J. How came he to keep you company ?
I
Cooke. I
(J>)
Cooke. \ could no^t chufe but fee him,fometimes I faw him 20 times a day<
Lordch.f. Where was he in
Cooke. He was there all Jpril.
Lord ch. J. He might be abfent one day or fo, and you fee him not^
Cooke. He ufed to come twice a week to my {hop for things.
LordCh. 1. Was he there all Maj/t
Cooke. Yes.
L. ch. f. You fay you faw him every other day ?
Cooke. Yes, my Lord.
Sir chr.Levins. Why Sir there are 150 Scholars there, how can you
tell he was there fo well ?
Mr.f.Pemherton. Can you tell everyone that was there all that time ?
Cooke. No, I can't tell every one that was there, buthe wasparticu-
lar enough.
LordCh. f. Did you live in Town as a Taylor or in the Colledge f
Cooke. In the Colledge.
Mr. Belveood. Was Mr. Oases at Watton any part of the time ?
Cooke. Yes, he was.
Mt.Belpoood. What day? whatmoneth.?
Cooke. Icannot juftly fay the day, but it was in Jprih
LordCh. L How long was he abfent?
Cooke. Only one night as itlhall pleafeyom
Mr. fufi. Pemberton. Hark you, how came you to take notice that he
was at ffasson one night ?
Cooke. It was talked of among all the Scholars.
L.^.f. How can you remember what was faid a year ago of one man ?
Cooke,, It was reported all over the houTe.
Gaven. In one place of his Narrative, he fays, be came over with
Sir ^ohn Warner^ and Sir Ihomas Prefton.
Lord ch, 7. North. That is nothing to the purpofe. If you can contra-
did him in any thing that hath been fworn here, do.
Gaven. If we can prove him a Perjured man at any time we do our
bufinefs.
L.ch.f. You fliould hive proved him a Perjur'd man before. How can
we prove one caufe in another? and then too he had been provided to make
his defence. Can he come prepared to make good every thing that he
hath faid in his life ?
Dr. Oates. Can I come to make good my Evidence againft all I have
done in my life ?
L.C.f. Lookyoudffobehehathforfworn himfelfin any former Tryal,
if that would appear you have all the reafon to make ufc of it, but you
have not taken the right way,you (hould have Indided him and tryed him
for Perjury in the former Triahand then he could not have been heard at
all in this.
Whitebread. We were all Prifoners cfofe {hutup.
L.Ch^J. We know you have a party ftrong enough, and willing
enough to convid him of Per jury if they could; but lodt you Gentlemea
here is the thing, ifyou can give fuch Evidence as will fatisfie the Jury
that he was abfent all Jpril and all May you have faid a great thing. His
Evidence-will be quite contradided.
Whitebread. He fays he came over with Sir Predion mdSirfohn
Warner and others-
X..C.7.KS
(56)
Ldrd Ch.f' rays nbthirig of it now.
"Dt.Oates. May it pleafe you my Lord, 1 willanfwef it if youpleafe.
Lord Ch. J. They defire to know who Came over with you when you
came over in Jfril.
Dr. Oates. I will tell you, and to convince the Court, that in neitlier
of the Trials I did contradict my felf, I fay, I did name fome perfons at
one time that I did not name at another, becaufe fome mens names did
occur to my mind at one time that did not at another. There came over
with me the Redor of Liege, Sir ^ohnWarner, Father HFather
Mdrfk, Vathcr Watfier^ Sit Prefiofi indothet$»
Lord Ch. J. This is dealing plainly with you.
Then Rood up one Bartlett.
Lordch.J. WhatCountrey-manare you?
Bartlett. I am a Dutch fflan.
Lord Ch. J. Can you fpeak Englilh ?
Bartiett. Yes a little.
Lord Ch. J. When came you from St. Omers f
B<jr//frr.IcamefromSt.O/»erjthe2 3 ofMrf^intheyear i^yS.newftile.
Gavefj. My Lord, this man is come over to teftifie, that Oates is Per-
jured in a Circumftance about Sir Warner.
Lord Ch.J. He is to contradid Mr. Gates teftimony,for he fays he came
over with Sir John Warner,znd you fay Sir John did not come at that time.
Gaven. Yes.
Lord Ch. J. Well when did Sir John Warner come over from St.Owm?
Bart/ett. Whither ?
Lord Ch. J. Into England ?
Bartlett. Sir John Warner hath not been in England all May, and all
the Moneth of Jfril.
Lord Ch. J. Where was he ?
Bartlett. He was at Watton. I did fee him there.
Lord Ch. J. Were you there all that time ?
Bartlett. Yes, I was.
Lord Ch. J. North. Were you there all May t
Bartlett. Yes, I was.
LoYd eh. J. When did you come over into England laft ?
Bartlett. The iph of May.
L. ch. J. How long have you been in England I
Bartlett. About yord weeks.
Lord Ch.J. What is your Name.^
Bartlett. My Name is Bartlett.
Lord Ch. J. But you fay that you came over the a y of May.
Bartlett. I did not come over till the latter end of June.
Lord Ch. J. Juft now you faid, you came over the z yh of May.
Bartlett. No ray Lord, I thought you had asked the queftion when
Mr. Oates came over.
Mr. Jufl. Pemirerton. He &ys fo, as your Lordlhip fays before.
Lord Ch. J. How do you know when Mr. Oates came over ?
Bartlett. I heard lb beyOnd Sea.
Then one Carlier a Foreigner appearing and not being able to
fpeak Mr.Tijjer the Underlheriflf of Middlesex was
Sworn truly to Interpret his Ttftimony.
L.C.J. Mr.
L.C. J. Mr. Tijfer, you are onely to tell us what he lays. Alk hhn
when he came into England laft.
Mr. tijfer. He fays, my Lord, it was between (even and eight weeks
ago.
L. C. J. Alk him, if he knows where Sir John Warner was laft Sum-
mer was a year ago.
Mr. Ti^er. He fays, my Lord, he was in Watt on for two years laft
paft.
L. C. J. Alk him where he was all Jpril was twelvemonth, and all
j^ay.
Mr. tifer. My Lord, he fays, that the laft Sunday in Aprils Sir John
Warner was at his houle at Watton.
L. C. J. And where was he all May §
Mr. Tijfer. In the lame houle. ;
L. C. J. Alk him how he does know.
Mr. Tijfer. My Lord, he laith, that he was a Gardener there.
L.C.J. It leems he fays to the lame effeft as the laft Witnels did.
Call another. Who did Jiand up.
L.C.J. What is this man's name >
Gaven, His name is Charles Verron.
L. C. J. Does he fpeak any Englilh ?
Gaven. No, he does not.
L. C. J. Then, Mir. Tijfer^ alk him if he knows Sir John Warner, and
where he was April and May was twelvemonth.
Mr. Tijfer, He lays, my Lord, that he was at Watton all April and May,
and continued there till September.
L. c. J. Pray alk this man what quality he is of there.
Mr. Tijfer. He goes along with a Velfel between St. Omers and Watton,
and that he knows it to be true.
L.C.J. Aikhim,if he did lee him every day.
Mr. Tijfer. He fays, generally, my Lord, dayly.
L. C. J. Alk him what Religion he is of.
Mr. Tijfer. He lays he is of the Roman Religion.
Then (iood up one Baillee.
L. C. J. Alk him, Mr. Tijfer, if he knows Sir John Warner 5 and where
he was all April and May was twelvemonth.
Mr. Tijfer. He lays the fame , that he was at Watton all April and
May.
L.C.J. Alk him how he can tell.
Mr. Tiffer. He fays he is a Servant of the houle.
L.C.J. And did he lee him there dayly?
Mr. Tijfer. My Lord, he fays that he gave him direftions to make a.
Baftyment, that heis aMalbn, and that he did give him direftions dayly'
about it, and that he law him every day.
L.C. J. Look you. Gentlemen of the Jury, he Ipeaks to the lame par-
pole that the three WitnelTes before Ipoke to, he lays he is a Malb-n,
and that he built a Baftyment there by direftion from Sir John Warner,
and that Sir John Warner came dayly to give diredtions about it.
Then Jiood up John Joleph.
L. C. J. Do you know Sir Thomas Prejion .<?
Jofeph. Yes, my Lord.
Ev T.c.J^
.
L. C. When did you fte him >
Jofeph. In the months of April, May, and
L. C. J. Where was he then >
JofepB. He was at the Englifh houfe at Leige.
L. C. J. Did you fee him there > how often did you fee him there ?
JofepB. I fawhim there every day almoft.
L. C :J. What occafion had you to fee him ? what were you there >
JofepB. I was Porter of the Gate.
L. C. J. And did you fee him all the month of April .<?
Jofeph. Every day, moft commonly.
L. C. J. Did you fee him once in a day or two >
Jofeph. I did fee him in April, May, and June.
L. C. J. That you might do, but did you fee hitti every day >
JofepB. Every day moft commonly,! catidot abfolutely fay, but two or
three days in a week.
Sir Cr. Levins. Pray do you know of any time that Sir tho. PreJio»
was abfent from Leige ^
JofepB. He Was in the time of the Vacancy.
Sir Cr. Levins. Was he not ablent id April or May ?
Jofeph. No, my Lord.
L. C. J. When are the Vacancies ?
Jofeph, In Angujl, rny Lord.
Then floodup one
L. C. J. Do you know Sir Tho. Prejion .<?
Carpenteer. Yes, my Lord, very well.
LiC.J. Where did you know him ?
Carpenteer. I knew him at Leige.
L.C.J. How often did you fee him there m April md May §
Carpenteer. Every day I faw him there all April and May.
L. C. J, What Office had yon there ?
Carpenteer. I was Caterer.
Gaven. My Lord, we have no more WitnefTes as to this point. But
my Lord, my Cafe is different frOfti the others; Mr. Otes fays he did not
fee me in the Congregation, but he fays, he afterwards fdV/ my hand to
the Confult. Now, my Lord, I have a Witnefs to prove that I was at
that time at Wolverhampton in Staffordfiire. No body hath a right to
fit in the Congregation till he become a profefs'd Jciuit, which at that
time I was not.
L.C.J. He does not charge you to have been there , though he fays
he faw your hand to it.
Gaven. My Lord, I was then in the Country.
L.C.J. North. That will do yon fbme, and yet but little fervtce, if you
.can prove your felf at Wolverhampton at that time ; but call your Wk-
neffes.
L. C. J. Mr. Gaven, he fays, he faw a Letter of yours giving an ac-
count how Affairs ftood in Staffordfnre and shropflnre, and that after-
wards in July, and before that- Gentleman Mr. Apby went to the Bath,
he heard you difcourfe of the fame matter: And though he cannot
charge his memory to fay he faw you the 24th of April, yet, fays he, I
did fee his band to the Confult, and being aiked how he knew your
hand,
[^3l
hand, he fays he knew it by your writing a Bill of Exchange in his pre-
ience.
Guven, I conld not figne the Gonlultat London^ and not be at Lon^
don.
L.C.J. North, i Ibelieve in fiich a bufinels you care not how many
hands you have; but we will not prevent you calling your Witneffes.
You are upon your life, don t fpend the time, call them quickly.
L. C, J. What do you call them to prove >
Gaven. To prove that I was at Wolverhampton the 24th and 25th of
April.
L.C .J. Pray hear what he (ays hiffllclf. You (ay. Sir, you (aw his
hand to the Confult that was in April ; pray when was it that you (aw
it.>
Dr. Otes. It was ia June or Julp.
L. C. J. North. You might (et your hand afterwards to if, if you were
not there then.
L. C. J. You (ay you were then in staffhrdjljire, and rnight riot you
let your hand afterwards when you came to Town ? I will tell you, Mr.
Gaven , In April they met, and had fuch a Refolution 5 you were then in
Staffordjloire^ might not you come to Town in July following, andfet
your hand to what was agreed in April before And you cannot con-
tradid him, but by (hewing that all June and July you were not here:
For if you prove your (elf never (b much to have been at Wolverham-
pton in Aprili that will not (erve thetnro. You (eem to make a very
great defence of this ; All that Mr. Otes fays, is, that the 24th of Apr-it
he was prelent where there was a Confult had about the Death of the
King, and divers perlbns fet their hands to the Relblve. Mr. Gaven
afterwards was in Town, and then, fays he, I (aw his hand (et to the
Confult; I will not charge my memory to (ay he was pre(ent, but I will
tell you why I believe it was his hand, becaule I (aw him draw a Bill of
Exchange, and that was juft like the fame hand.
Gaven. Aye but, my Lord, I was not here in April.
L. C.J. But this proves, in effed, that you fet your hand to the
thing afterwards. And now if you fhould prove your (elf never (b
plainly not to have been there in Aprils you do not come to the thing :
it is (till di Non liquet whether you were here in July or no. And Mr,
Otes does not politively charge you as to April. Well, call yorir Wit-
neffes, and prove what you will.
Catherine Winford was called^ and appeared.
Gaven. I defire you would be pleafed to alk her, where I was the 23 th
of Jnly.
Winford. My Lord, I am very fure he was a Sojourner at our houlb
themoft part of the Summer, in June and July both : In July the 23th
he went away from my houfe, and took another Lodging more conve-
nient for that which he had to do.
L.C .J. Where? in what Town vsras this >
Winford. hx Wolverhampton mSiaffbrdfljire.
L. C. J. Was he never away from you all that time ?
Winford. No 5 and then he went to another Lodging in the Town.'
L. C .J. Do you fay that he (bjourned with you all June and July till
the 23th ?
Winford,^
Wmfcrd. He fojourned with me longer 5 but I onely name thole
Months, becaule they are onely in queftion.
L. C. J. Where did he go when he went from you ?
Winford. He took another Lodging in the Town.
L. C. J. And did you lee him then >
Winford. I faw him then every day, or every other day.
L.C .J. Are you a Roman-Catholick?
Winford. Yes, my Lord, I amfo^ *
L, C .J. Call another. '
Gaven. Call Mary Pook. [Who flood
T. c. J. Do you know Mr. Gaven ^
Toole. Yes, my Lord.
L. C. J. How long have you known him ?
Toole. This fix or leven years.
L. C, J. Pray do you know where he was this time twelvemonth ?
Toole. He was at Mrs. Winfords Houfe at Wolverhampton.
L. c. J. How do you know >
Toole. I was a lervant there in the Houfe.
L. C. J. And where was he in Jpril ^ \
Pf<?/e. He was at my MiftrelTes Houfe.
L. C. J. And where was he in May ^
Toole. My Lord^ I believe he was there.
L. C. J. And why do you believe he was there >
Toole. Becaufe I do not remember his going forth, till the latter end
of July^ and he was there in June too.
L. C. J. You anfwer readily as to June and July, why did youftickat
the Month of May, more than the other Months ? for you know, when
I asked you where he was in Jpril, then you laid he was at home 5 why
do you doubt whether he was there in May or no > pray tell Us why it
is not as certain to you that he was not there in May , as that he was
there in June , why do you doubt more of it >
Poole. I do not doubt but that he was there.
L. C. J. But why did you not anfwer then as readily to the one as to
the other ?
Poole. My Lord, any one may miftake.
L. c. J. This you were not prepared for, and it was a queftion you
did not come ready to anfwer: are you a Roman-Catholick }
Toole. Yes, my Lord. [Here the people laugh'd.'] -
L. C. J. Look you, you muft know there is no other ufe to be made of
it, but onely to lhew,that Proteftauts are Ibaverfe to Popery in England,
that they will not endure a Roman-Catholick in England. But they are
good Evidence, and competent Witnelfes, I muft tell you that , and no
man muft deny it; for though you deny Heaven to us, yet we will
not deny Heaven to you, nor Witnefles; though you lay Hereticks
will be damn'd, yet we hope they will never, while they do not follow
your praftifes. [At vphich the people gave a great Jloout.']
L .C .J, You muft pardon the peoples ftiouting ; for you have turned
their hearts lb, that there is no living for a Papift in England , I will
maintain it. [And then the people Jhouted again.'} You lhallhave all the
Juftice that can be, and aU the favour the Law will allow.
Caven.
1:^5]
Gitven. If there be but a place for us iu Heaven, I am contented. My
Lord, I defire you will be pleafed to alk this Mrs. Kath. Winford whe-
ther Ihe does not remember that I came from ray Lord Ajion\ the Mon-
day before.
L.C.'j. Mrs. Winford^ what lay you ? do you remember any pallages
about the time he left your houle }
Winford. My Lord, I did not know direftly and pofitively what I
fhould come to anfwer, and therefore I cannot recoiled my lelf.
L. C.J, Do you know that he went to any Gentleraans houle Ibme
time before he left your houle >
Winford. Yes, my Lord, he went often abroad.
L. C.J. To whole }
Winford. To my Lord Ajlons.
L. C. J. How long before }
Winford. I cannot tell.
I-C.J How long did he ftay at my Lord § } Did he ever ftay five or
fix days
Winford. I cannot tell.
L.C.J. My meaning is this in plain Englilh, to alk you plainly, and
you ought in Conlcience to fpeak the truth as much as if you were up-
on your Oath : for you are in the prelence of God, who will judge you
as leverely for a fallhood in this Gale, as in the other. I would alk you
whether he could not poffibly be ablent, and make a ftep to London, and
you be never the wiler ?
Winford. My Lord, I am as confident as I can be of any thing in the
world, of the contrary.
L. C. J. Might not he be in London the latter end of Jitne or Jnty^ and
you not know it, when he pretended to go to my Lord Ajions .<?
Winford. I do not know, but I am very confident he did not.
L.C. J. But was he ablent longenou^ to have done it? can you
charge your memory with that ?
Winford. It was pollible it might be lb, but I am confident it was not,
becaufo I uled to order my Maid to get him his Linnen ready Upon any
Journey, and he had none now.
Dr. Otes. My Lord, he took a Chamber to go into the Exercile 5 now,
my Lord, he taking a Chamber on purpole for this very thing, he might
pretend that, and come to London the while, and they nbt know it, be-
caule he was Ihut up 5 for none are to come at them.
Winford. My Lord, I know not any fuch thing of him 5 but this is a
Rule amongft them, that when they are lb Ihut up, if there be a necelTary
occafion to come to them about any particular bufinels, as lending them
Linnen or lb, they have admittance to them.
L. c. J. Were you employ °d upon any fuch extraordinary matter?
Winford. My Lord, I ufed to go and lee him, and carry him his Lin-
nen.
L. C. J. And can you charge your memory with that ?
VFinford. Yes, my Lord, I can.
L. £7. J. When, the latter end of
VFinford. Yes, my Lord, I often went to fee him then, when he was
gone from ray houfe.
L.C.J. Where was he for all the former part of July till thofe eight
days? s VFinford
C«6.3
VVififord. He was at my own houfe.
L. C.J. When went he firft into this reclufe wav ?
VVinjord. He went from my houfe the 25th of Jnly.
L. C. J. Was he not cloie when he was with you ?
Vl^inford. No, my Lord.
L. C. J. And the jaft eight days you had acce(s to him.
VVinford. Yes, I had.
L. C. J. I a(k. you, Are thefe people (hut up at a certain time, and
there is no coming to them upon any occafion ?
VVinford. My l&jrd, moft of thofe days I did fee him, indeed he was
fliut up 3 but upon any kind of bufinefs, as the carrying of Linnen, and
(bmetiraes a pair of Gloves, and other things of his own, or foraetimes
to fpeak with him about bufinels, we were admitted to him.
L. C. J. I fee your Confinements are not (b great as you would make
them to be, or he would have us think. I afk you once more, whether
you can fey, that during the months of June and July it was not polli-
ble for him to make a ftep to London.^ and you never the wifer ?
VVinford. I am very confident he did not 3 he was not abfent long e-
nough to do it.
Sir Cr. Levins. Youfaid juftnow you could not fey pofitively but he
might be abfent for five or fix days.
tVinford. I do not believe he did : for he had no Linen with him j
which he ufed to have, when he went to London.
h.C.J. But fiippofing he had no Linen, might he not go to i ondon,
and you not know it ?
Winford. I can't tell whether he was abfent or no long enough to
do it.
Gaven. Pray, my Lord, let me fpeak 5 as I live, an innocent man will
be loft elfe. He feys exprefly I was in town in July 3 and gives this ar-
gument for it, That Mr. Ajhby was in town, and he met me with him.
L.C.J. No, no 3 Mr. Otes was not fo pofitive: he feys it was either in
June or July 5 but he rather thinks it was July. But Miftris, might not
he in the beginning of July be abfent ft> long as a man might go to Lon-
don and return again, in the firft three weeks of July^ I mean }
Winford. My Lord, I cannot charge my memory , becaufe I did not
know what I ftiould be asked, and fb could not recoiled my felf. I
onely fey I am confident of it, becaufe he always told me when he
went fuch a Journey, that I might make provifion of Linen to fit him
for it.
L. C. J. Your Reafbns are weak, becaufe he ufed to tell you that you
might get him Linnen : men upon extraordinary occafions do extraor-
dinary things 3 fo that you are not to govern your felf by what he ufed
to do in his acquainting you, or you in providing his Linnen. This was
no ordinary Errand, and therefore I don't alkyou whether he had Lin-
nen from you or no 3 but you are onely to charge your felf with remem-
bring whether he could not be abfent long enough out of your fight to
have been fuch a Journey.
Gaven. Pray, my Lord, give me fair play. He does charge it cx*
prefily, and is precife to a day ; He faith I was here in July after that
Afiby was come to Town, and befbre that he went out of Town; And
he fays that Ajhby came to Town in the middle ofjulv, and went out
of
C«7]
of Town about the latter end of or beginning of Auguji. Now,
my Lord, I fay this, he faying that Ajhby came to Town the middle of
and flaid there a fortnight, and then went to the Bath, and that I
came to Town while that he was there j if I prove that f was in Stafford-
jhire from the 15 th on 6th of July to the end of the month, then f fhall
clear my felf evidently ^ fot he does in effect charge me to be here fbme
time in that fortnights time, and I prove that all the latter part of July I
was in the Country.
L. C. J. He does not charge it to a day, but he fays it was about a
fortnight.
Dr. Otes. Mr. AJliby came to Town in the beginning or middle of July 5
I rather think it was the middle, but I dare not upon my Oath be pofi-
tive as to the time 5 and in that time that Mx.Ajhby ftaid in Town,
Mr. Gaven came to London : for I remember he laid he would go and
fee Father AJ ?}by ,who was then at Wild-houfe.
L. C. J. Prove where you were now all July. Call your Witneffes.
Gaven. I prove that I was at Wolverhampton from the 23th to the
end of the month.
L. C. J. Gall your Witneffes to prove wher? you were the beginning,
that can fpeak exprefsly to it.
Gaven. My Lord, I have them not here.
L. C. J. Why then would you make us loofe all this time ?
Gaven. My Lord,I will tell you j hear the words of an ingenuous man:
being as I was innocent, not knowing what they intended to charge me
with, I in my mind run over all that I could imagine I had at any time
done that they could lay hold on. If I had been guilty of any thing,
my own Conference would have told me of it , and I fhould have
provided to have given fbme Anfwer to it: but being innocent, I was
to ranfack my memory to firm up all the paffages of my life, where I had
been,what I had faid,what I had done,that would give them any occafioa
of accufing me. And becaufe I did imagine they might think I was
here the 24th of Aprils I brought Witneffes for that; and becaufe I
did imagine that they might fpeak of fome Confults in Aprils I fent up
for fuch Witneffes, at my own charge, as could teftifie where I was
then.
L. C. J. But you have not one Proteftant that teftifies for you.
Gaven. And now, my Lord, I humbly caft my felf upon the Honour
and Juftice of this Honourable and Juft Court; to which I fubmit my
felf with all my heart and foul, having ufed all the remedies I can. I
have cleared my felf as to the main day, the 24th oC April, whereon all
the pretended Plot lies; And I'll bring Witneffes that fhall fwear I was
not in London in Auguji 5 and if my eternal Salvation lay upon it, I could
averrel viZi not'\\x London : and Iwifh I may be made an Ex-ample of
Juftice before all the world ( in the fight of God I fpeak it) if I be not
the moft innocent perfbn in the world. And, my Lord, feeing there is
onely his Oath for it, and my denial, I have onely one Demand; I don't
know whether it be not an extravagant one or no 5 if it be, I don't de-
fire to have it granted.
L. C. J. What is that Demand ?
Gaven. You know that in the beginning of the Church (this learned
[58]
and juft Court muft needs know that) that for One thouftnd years to-
gether, it was a Cuftom, and grew to a conftant Law, for the Tryal of
perfons accufed of any capital Offence, where there was onely theAc-
cuiers Oath and the Acculed's denial, for the Prilbner to put himlelf up-
on the Tryal of Ordeal^ to evidence his own Innocencie,
L. C. North. We have no fuch Law now,
L. C. J. You are very fanciful, Mr. Gaven 5 you believe that your
Cunning in aiking fuch a thing, will take much with the auditory 5 but
this is onely an artificial VarniOi: You may do this with hopes of having
it take with thole that are Roman CathoHcks, who are fo fuperftitious
as to believe Innocency upon fuck defiresj but we have a plain way of
underftanding here in Englund, and that helpt very much by the Prote»
ftant Religion: fo that there is fcarce any Artifice big enough toimpofe
Upon us. You alk a thing that founds much of a pretence to innocencie,
and that it would be a mighty fuffering if you fhould mifcarry, becaufe
you afk that you know you can't have. Our Eyes and our Under-
Handings are left us, though you do not leave their Underftandings to
your Prolfclytes: but you are miffakeo , if you think to irapole that
upon us that you do upon them : and you do fo impole upon them. But
I'll tell you, there is fcar'ce any man with us that can be a Papifl: for
you cannot deceive and gull us, as you have done all that you have per-
verted to your way.
Caven. Is it any harm, my Lord, to afk whether I might not be fo
tried ?
L.C. J. North, Look you here, Mr'G^z'cWjthetimeis farrpent5 if you
have any thing to fay, we will hear you 5 if you have any Witneffes, call
them, and we will examine them: but if not, the other Prifoners muff
be admitted to make their defence as well as you.
Gaven. All thefe fix can prove that I was at VVolverhampon the lafl
week in July.
Then another Witnefs Jioodup for hint.
Caven. Where was I in July .«?
Witnefs. I cannot fpeak to all July 5 but, my Lord, I can declare, that
Mr. Gaven was in Staffordflnre the laff week of July every day, I am
confident.
L. C. J. Where was he the firff three weeks in July .<?
Witnefs. I cannot fpeak as to that 3 but in the laft week in July he
came to an apartment of an houle that I lived in.
L. C. J. Look you, Mr. Gaven., you fee what this Evidence is 3 fhe
fays that you were in Staffordjhire the laft week in July, for you had an
apartment in the houfe fhe lived in* Call another. [VVho Jioodup.l
L. C.J. Where was Mr. Gaven in July laft ?
2 Witnefs. My Lord, I faw him my fclf at the latter end of July for
very many days 3 for he was in a Room of the houfe that I lived in, I
am lure, moft of the laft week.
L. C. J. Where was he the laft fortnight ?
2 Witnefs. I am confident I law him all the laft fortnight, but I can-
not be pofitive.
L. C. J. Call another. [Who Jivod up.!
L. C. J. Where was Mr. Gaven in July i
3 FFit'
{69)
9 VPitnefs. My Lord, I lived in the fame Town with hitn^ and I don't
remember that he was out all ^«//,but the lafl: week he was in our houle.
L.Ch. JifJi' Well, call another. (Whoftoodup.j
L. Ch. J'i/i. Where was Mr. Gaven in July laft >
' 4 IVitnefs. He was in July laft, the laft week in a part of our houfe.
L. Ch. Jufi- So then he came home from Loudon the 29s/. or lo^th. of
Well Mr Given have you any more Witneffes to any other pur-
pole ? for here are enough to this.
Given. No, my Lord.
L. ch. Jufi. Mr. tf^hitebread, have you any IVitneflfes to call ?
Ivhitebreid. My Lord, i have only this, and I defire to be heard in
this point, to prove that Mr. Oats was miftaken in his Evidence that he
gave at the laft trial againft Mr. Ireland.
L. ch. Juji Look you, I muft break in upon you 5 you have been
told fo otten, all of you have been told it, and yet you are upon the
former Trials again. You are now upon your trial for your life, if "you
could have difproved any thing that he faid at a former Trial, you
ftiould have taken a legal way and convi(fted him of perjury^ but now
to charge him with a printed paper is not fair. You muft fpeak to what
he (ays now.
Whitebread. He fays the fame now. But all that I fay is this. If he be
not honeft,he can be witnels inno cale. I fuppole if any one can prove
him not rtiobt^ his Teftimony is not "to be receiv'd in any cafe.
L. (Jh. JjfJi.. But how will you prove that > Come on. Tie teach you
a little Logick: If you will come to contradifta Witnels, you ought
to do it in a matter which is the prelent debate here for if you would
convift him of any thing that he faid in Ireland's Trial, we muft try
Ireland's Caufe over again. But if you will fay any thing againft what
he fays now, do.
tfhitebread. That which I would alledg is this, If he be convided of
perjury in one cafe, he is not to be believed iu another.
L. ch. Jufi. You fay right, if he be convided.
Whitebread. He is not only then an incompetent Witneft,for he cannot be
faid to be probus tejiif^ but he is intprobm. Now this is that I can prove,
Mr. Jufi- Pemberton. Nay, you muft fhew it by a Record.
L. ch.JuB. You cannot have (b little underftanding, you that have
been, and were to be fo great a man among them, had been Provincial,
and was to, have been fomewhat el(e. I have told you already, that to
prove him to be a matt that hath no faith iu him he muft be
convifted. You muft have indiO'ed him, and convifted him, of the
thing wherein he did commit perjury, and then he had been prepared
to juftifie himfelf. But (hall you come now, and. at this your. Trial, and
prove what he (aid at staley 's Trial,and Coleman 's Trial, and Ireland's
Trial.<? And muft we examine what matters have receiv*d a verdift and
a judgment there ^ for confider what will be the confequence of it; if it
(hould be falfc,you there arraign a verdidl:. You (hould have convided
him of the falftiood firft.
whitebread. I defire the Jury to take notice,that he does not ftick to
the Teftimony that he gave then, for if he does it was falle.
L. ch. Juji. They muft not take notice of any thing that was done at
a former Trial,unle(s it be fpoken of now.
T L. ch. JhB .
• (7°)
North. Do not call any Witneffes to prove what he fa id
then, but to difprove what he hath faid now.
L. Ch. JuJi. 'Tis a pretty hard matter to make a Priefl: underftand one,
for what i fee. If the Witnefs Ihal! not gain credit with the Jury that
he came over with Sir Thomas PreSion^ Sir 'juhn Warner , if they are la-
tisfied by thofe many Witneiies^ten or twelve at leaft, that it is fal(e,they
ought not to believe him ^ but as to that Teftimony they ought to be-
lieve your Witnelles 5 but he is not prefently guilty of perjury: for if
they fhould not give credit to Mr. Oates^ you muft indift him, and ano-
ther Jury mufl: pals upon him before he is convifted; for it is one thing
to be forfworn and perjured, and another thing to be proved fo 3 and
he is not proved to be fo, but by a Record for that purpofe.
Harcourt. If fo be our Witnelles can't be lookt upon as good Wit-
fielles, then there can be no Commerce abroad in any other Country.
L. ch. JaJi. They are no doubt good Witneffes till they be proved
otherwile, and they are left to the Jury to believe as they think fit.
Harcourt. Now here are divers things that are brought againft my
felf by Mr. Bedlovp^ Mr. Trance, Mr. Oates, and Mr. DUgdale:, if the
Witnefl&s that I bring,becaufe they are Roman Catholicks, are not good
Witneffes, then I am in an hard cale.
L. Ch-J»Ji'North. Look then, youmiftake the things thole that are
not Witneffes, we don't hear at all 5 but our hearing them at all,proves
that we look upon them as good Witneffes. But when a man is a Wit-
nels, he is either of more credit or of lels credit, according to Cireum-
ftances 3 and 'tis a proper queftion to ask them. Whether they are Kd-
man Catholicks: but they are Witneffes without all queftion.
Harconrt. I lay, my Lord, thele perlbns are known to be every one
of them very bad and flagitious perlbns, and that every one of them
have undertaken this courle meerly to get a livelihood: they are men of
defperate fortunes, they get a living by fwearing fall, they find that
the beft trade.
L-C jttJi.North. If yOu have any other Witneffes,we will hear them.If
you have no other Witneffes, then we muft hear what the King's Council
reply, and then it will be your turn to lay what you can in your defence.
Caven. I have Witneffes here. It is not indeed a politive Evidence,
but a negative Evidence 3 and I have a Brother and a Sifter in Town,
and upon my lalvation I never came to Town but I came to their houle.
L-Ch- That will fignifie nothing. Mr. Harcourt^heeve you any more
Witneffes ? if you have them, pray call them.
Harcourt. 'Tis in vain to call them, if they be not to be believed be-
caule they are Roman Catholicks..
Sir C. Levins. 'Tis a miftake 3 we do not refule any Witneffes becaule
they are Roman Catholicks.
L. ch.jajl:. No, we have not refuled any one Point yet.
L.c J North.lf you have any more,pray callthem,& don't Ipend the time.
L. jf«il. Call a Prieft or two if you will, we will hear them.
HarcoMrt. Mr. Oates did accule me of paying fourlcore Pounds at my
Chamber, and he did lay afterwards it was at Wildhonfe. I have perlbns
to juftifie what was done at my own Chamber 3 and belays, Mr. Ireland
Was by30ow here are Witneffes to prove that Mx.Ireland was in Stafford-
fliire all the Month of AuguB,thevefoxe he could not be preftnt.
LJC.L
(rO
L.C-J. Does he fay any fuch thing now? ■ * : 1
Mr. Juft. Pemberton- That was urged before 5 pray do not iniiftupoo
that, it hath receiv'd a Tryal. :
L. c. J. rie tell you what he fays, and Fie ask hira the queftion : Dr.
Oates^ it is fuppofed by your teftimony that Mr. Ireland and Mt. Harcmtt
were together when this fourfcore pounds was jiaid for the Villains that
went to Windfor to murder the King >
Dr. Oates. I never (aid fueh a word.
Harcoiirt. Here it is in the Tryal. =
L. C.J. Iftand not by the printed Tryal, it is no Record in Law.
In fhort, Were Mr. Ireland and Mr. Uarcourt together at that time
Dr. Odtej. No, they were not.
Gaven. He did then fay, that he did receive of Mr. Ireland, the ad of
September, 70s. that he borrowed of him; now the ad of September bx
was at Bofcobel.
Dr. Qates. My Lord, I Was not politive as to the day but as near a?
I remember (thofe were the words I faidjit was the fecond obSeptember^
but whether it was the firft, fecond, feventh,eighth, or ninth',! wouldnot
be politive in it. i
Then the Prifoners called Pendrel and his Wife, and Gifford and
his Wife n and Gifford Jiood np.
Gifford. MyLord, I washerethelaftSeffions, where I did teftifie the
feeing of Mr. Ireland in StaffordJfjire on the 2\thob aingnji, Bartholo-
^feiP-day, and the next day after j at which time Mr. Oates faid that he
faw him here in Town. But Mr. Oates could not be particular in every
thing i but at laft he came to a circumftance, and averred that the fir|l or
fecond of September he did receive 20 s. of Mr. Ireland in Harcowt^s
Chamber j be laid it was about the Faft-day.
Dr. 0^/er. That was as near as I reraembred. .
Gifford. Here is in Court at ieaft fix people that know it 5 I few hte
feveral other of thole days there 5 but thefe fix people converfed with
him every day.
Mr. How do you know all that?
L. C. y North. Come, come, you muft not (peak as to what he feid in
Ireland's Tryal.
L. C. J. What time was it that Mr. Uarcourt and Mr.Ireland confer-
red together about this ferae bulinels ?
Dr. Oates. My Lord, I do not charge Ireland, but Fcharge Harcmrp
with being at Wild-HoHfe,and that there Coleman met him^ and that there
was the greateft part of the money,which was carried hack. ro Barconrth
Chamber, and given to the perfon that was to carry it down to Windforst
but Mr. Coleman was gone away before, and had left a Guineji behind
him, which was given to the Meflenger for expedition. 1
I. c. J- lam miftaken if you have not teftilied that Ireland was iii
Town in Juguji and September w'\th Harcourjt.
Dr. Oates. Irelandtook his leave of London betwixt the 8th and the
%2ih of Juguji, as to go to St. Omers.
, L. C. J. Here is the matter, they muft have right, though there be ne^^
yer lb much time loft, and patience fpent. Say they, We muft prove and
9oatradi6t men by fuch matters as we can 5 people may fWear downright
things, and 'tis impoflible to contradict them 5 but we wiH call Witneffes?
to
C 75 )
to prove thofe particulars that can be proved :ray where Mr. TreUfid was
in Auguft}
Dr. Oaies. He took his leave of us in Town in /vgufi, and that was
between the eighth and twelfth at Harcrrirt's Ghamber.
,L. ch. JaJi. What do you infer from Ireland^ being there then?
Dr. Oaht. rie tell you what \ defign in it : your Lordfhip may per-
ceive that 1 did methodize my Evidence according to the time j for I
Hid this was our bufinels in April this in 'jalys and now we come to the
bufincls of Jugttji, faid I, v^e took cur leaves of Mr. Ireland between
the eighth and twelfth. I faid in jf«// Mr.Fe»n'/c)^ was out of Town,but
then if your Lordfhip remembers I faid he was in Town, and took his
leave of Mr. Ireland between the eighth and the twelfth of Auguji.
L Ch.J. Was Mr.Irelmd in FenwiclCs Company at that time in AugnWi
Dr. Oatet. Yes, my Lord, he was when he took his leave.
L. Ch. JuJi' Did they talk then of this bufinefs?
Dr. Oates. They took their leavdS of one another, but as to what
particular things of the Plot they fpoke about, 1 don't remember.
L. Ch. JuJi. Look you tiow, mind what he fays, Ireland and Fenwic^
were together in between the eighth and the twelfth, but being
asked, Whether they were met oh purpofe to talk of the Plot? he fays
he does not remember the Particulars.
Here the Lady Southcott, her Son, and her Daughter were called.
Did you fay that Fenwick^theixe at the Bar had converfe with
Ireland mAuguft ior the carrying on of the Plot ?
Dr. Oatei. Yes, my Lord.
L C.J. My rule is this in doubtful cafes,when men are upon their lives,
I had rather hearwhart isimpertinent,than not let them make a full defence.
L.C.J. North. I had rather hear things at a venture,than forbid things
at a venture.
Lady Soxxthcott Jlood up^
L-C'J' How long were you in Mr. Ireland's Company ?
Lady Southcott. From the fifth of AuguH to the fixteenth.
L.C.J. What every day ?
Lady Southcott. Yes, every day.
Dr.Oa/e/. My Lord, here is Sarah Pain who before bath teftified what
fhe hath known in this matter. If your Lordfhip pleafe I defire ihe may
be call'd in readinefi to fpeak to it.
tC'f. Are yOu fure it was the fifth .<?
Lady Southcott. Yes, as fure as I can be of any thing.
Mr. Recorder. Dr. Oates., you had beft keep your Evidence intire till
the laft.
Then Sir John Southcott was called^ and appeared.
L.C.J. Did you know Mr. Ireland ^
Sir John Southcott. Yes, I did know him by face.
L.C .J. Where did you fee him ^
Sir John Southcott. I faw him the fifth of AuguB at St. Albans.
LC.J. And did he travel along with you
Sir John Southcott. Yes, he did travel along with us the fixthj feventh,
eighth and ninth.
L C.J. How many days did he travel along with you
Sir John Southcott. He travePd along with us four days together I
am fure. L.C.j,
C73)
L. C. J. What from the 5to the 9#^
^\r^ohn Southcott. Yes, Sir.
L. C. J. Is this all that you can fay >
Sir John Southcott. Yes, my Lord.
L. C. J. But we would know where he was afterwards 5 did you lee
him after the <^th ? ,
Sir ^okn Southcott, My Lord, I faw him at St. and we tyent
from thence to Northautpton, and from thence to Coventry^ and from
thence to my Lord AUons^ that is four days j and I law him Thurfday,
I faw him Fridoiy^ Saturday^ and Monday following, t^uefday I had oc»
calion to go further into the Countrey, and he went along with us 5 lb I
faw him Tuefdap, fVednefday., thurfday and Friday,, afterwards.
L, C. J. Why then you faw him at leaft twelve days >
Sir John Southcott, Yes.
L. C-J. Have you any mojre >
Then Mr. Edward Soutchcott flood up.
L. C. J. Were you here when Ireland was tryed ?
Sir John Soutchcott. No.
L. C. J. Did you le.e Mr. Ireland in Augnli lafl: ?
Mr. Southcott. The third of AuguSi he came down to my Lord A-
fions at Stanmare, they faid fo j but I cannot; fwear he came that night,
but flaw him very early the neXt morning ^ the ^th we. went to St. Al"
bans, and we kept on till we came to TixaU 5 and I was in his company
from the i^th to the 1
L.C.J. Why, you hear what he fays, he was in company with him
every day from the 4*^ to the l • / -M/. .v, ; '
Gaven. Call Mrs. Harewell aqd her Daughter,' Mrs. afford^ and Mfs.
fendrell.
Then Mrsi Harewell ^tood up.
L. C. J. Did you lee Mr. Ireland in Augufi laft >
Harewell. I faw Ireland in Auguft laft, the I ^th day ; He came then
to my Houle at IFolverhampton^ and there he continued every day, and
lay in ray Houfe every night till the 2^6#^ day.
<
Then young Mrs. Harewell flood up.
HareweU. Mr. Ireland came to our houle in StaffordJlHre the j jth of
AHgujii and ftay'd there till the ttStb 5 I law him every day, unlels it was
Friday,, the day before Bartholomm-dny , When he went to Litchjieldt
and returned again.
Gaven. My Lord, there is a Prilbner now in Newgate that can teftifie
the fame.
L. C. J. North. Would you ask your fellow if you be a Thief ? he
is in for the fame offence. <
Gaven. My Lord, I dclire to know, if a man be not eonvifted of the
fame offence, whether he be not a good Witnels ?
L. C. J. North. If he ftand charged with the lame PioC his Evidence
is of little weight. r ib
The$t^X\Z2Lhsth J^\Xmg flood Hp). .
. -.T-r -
' i • . i - 1. . .. . .. •
L. C; j. Did you lee Mr. Ireland in Augufl i
. Keiting. Yes, ray Lord, I did.
V L.C.}.
(" 74 J)
L. c. J' Where did you fee him ?
Keiling. I faw him at Wolverhampton, there he was from Saturday the
17th, to Monday ,znA then I went to fee my Mother,and came back agaia
oa ihurjday, and found him there, and there he was till the ^6th.
'^aven. Call Mr. and his Wife. 1 hen PeadieW Jf&odup^
L. C- J. When did you fee Mr. Ireland}
Tettdrell. t faw him the fecond and third of September.
L. c. Where did you fee him >
Pendreil. At Bofcobel.
L.C. jf And what, did you fee him in Angufl ?
fendreU. No, my Lord.
L.C.J, How do you know you few him then?
FendreU. My Wife being pay'd for his diet, fet down the day.
L. C. J. What, he came to fbjourn with you, did he ?
FendreU. They were with me for their Meals, and fb my Wife fet tt:
down.
L. C. J. Why, do you fet down the day of the Month when any one
comes to you?
PendreU. Yes, my Lord, when we are paid for their Diet, we do.
L. C. J- What, do yoii keep a pubiick Houfe ?
PendreU. I keep the Royal Oak.
L. C.J. Methinks you (hould have a great deal of company if you
live there ^ and 'tis hard you fhould tharge your felf to remember a par-
ticular perfon you did not know before.
PendreU. My Lord, he told me his name was Ireland , and feveral
others did fb too.
L, C. J. You had as good have let fuch trivial Evidences as this alone.
But go on. Then Mrt. PendreU fiood uf.
L. €. J. Do you know Mr. Ireland .<?
Mrs. PendreU. I did know by report it was he.
L. C. J. Where did you fee him in Angitji or September .<?
PendreU. At Bofcobel, my Lord.
L. c- jfv Did you ever fee him before that time ?
Mrs. PendreU. No, ray Lord.
L. C. J. Do you know it was the feme man that fuffered ?
Mrs. PendreU. I will take my oath of it.
L. C. J. How I when you never few him bgfbre that time ?
Mts. PendreU. I was in Town when he dyed.
Then flood up Miii. GifFord.
L. C. J. When did you fee Mr. Ireland^
Giflord. My Lord, Mx. Ireland came to Wolverhampton the 17th qT
AuguH, and he ftayed there till the %6th, it was of a Monday, I remem-
ber it by feveral circumftances.
L. C. J. Did you know Mr. Ireland ^
afford. I never few him befbre.
L. C. J. Do you know it was the feme that dyed ?
Gfford. My Lord, here was my brother in Town, who few him exe-
cuted, and he did allure me he was the feme. And I few him again the
iecond of September, and the yth of September again, and the 10th and
the I ith. My Lord, he was the feme man, I believe, becaufe my bro-
ther told me lb.
Mr. Gfford.
C 7? ^
Mr. GrjfoVd. I (aw Mm in the Country, and I (aw him executed.
Then another Mrs. Gifford jiood up.
Mrs. Gifford. I faw him at Pastcrafs Fair in Staffordjliire.
L. C. J. Was it the (arae man that Was Executed .«?
Mrs Gifford. My Lord I cannot fay that, I did not fee him (uffer; but
8Esy Sifter and I were at a Window, a<nd (lie (hew'd him to me, and (aid
that was Mr. Ireland., and told me how long he had been in England.
L C.J- How do you know that was the man that Was executed? did
you fee him tried here .<?
Mrs. Gifford. Yes, my Lord, I did.
h'.C.J. And that was the (ame man.
Mrs. Gifford. Yes it was, my Lord.
LJO.J. When was it your Sifter fhew'd you him ?
Mrs. Gifford. I (aw him upon the feventh of September.
Then Hood up one Mr. Bedle.
I. C J. When did you (ee Mr. Ireland ?
Bedle. I faw him at a place called Millage in Staffordjhife the (ecoiid
of September.
L C j' Are you a Roman Catholick ?
Bedle. If I muft make a confeflion of my Faith,I will. But I faw him
there, and they (aid it was Mr. Ireland the Jeftiit.
L.C-3' acquaintance with him before P
ledte. No.
L.C.J. How do you know it is the (ame man that (uffered ?
Bedle. I do not know that, but I fuppo(e it was the fame.
Turner. I am accufed for being at Tixall at a con(ult in September, I
defire to know who (aw me there, for I have not been there the(e four
years.
L.C.J. Mr. DHgdale (aw yOu therci
Turner. What Witneffes befides ^
I.C.J. None but he for that.
Mr. Recorder. Hath Mr. Fentioic^ any more Witneffes to call ?
Fenwick' My Lord, I have not any.
Thenxoat Captain Hill called.
Femick; My Lord, he can prove fomething againft Mr. Bedloe: He
fays, he lived in good repute , but the Captain will tell you, he was in
the Marjhalfey, and lived a poor mean life, and all the time fed upon
the Basket.
L.C.J. North. He was guilty of the (ameXreafons that you are guilty
of, there is his fault.
L.c-J' No doubt he was a naUghty man,he was with you in this Plot.
Fenroick. I can prove by Sir James Bmler^s Clerk that h6 Cheated a
Cutler of a Silver hiked Sword.
Then Sir James ButlerV clerks was called, but he having more than
onei^and the ptrfoh meant, not being there, there could nothing be
examined about that.
L.C.J. North. He hath had the Kings Pardon for all that.
Fenwick. He was forced to run the Country for a many Cheats,and
was forced to borrow 4 or 5 /. to redeem his Boots. My Lordf does his
Pardon make him a good Witnefi.^ Then we will frove fomething
fince his Pardon.
L>C.Ji
C )
No 4owbt he was bad enough while he was with you.
Whitebre^id. My Lord, I thinH I have a plain Demonftration againft
Mr. Bedloe fince his Pardon,5 he did at my laft Trial fay that he had no-
thing to fay againft .me, and now he comes and gives frefti Evidence a-
g^jnfk me.
: L. C. J. Norfh. That is an Objeftion that will not take away hisEvi-
dence, but only goes to theleffenjog of the credit of it. He fays he was
in Jreaty with Mr. Reading about you, and the Lords in the Towerjand
to beget a confidence in him that the Lords in the Tower (hould receive
favour from him, and come off by his means, he was to be eafie to you
too, which made him leflen his Evidence at that time. This is that he
fays, the weight of it muft be left to the Jury. And he (aid at that time
he had more to fay at time and place convenient.
whitebread. There is no luch thing in the Trial. He hath alledged
great matters againft me, therefore it is evident he did falfifie his Oath;
for if he were to fwear the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
t^e truth, and he did not fay the whole truth, he is perjured 3 if he did,
he can fay nothing againft me now.
L. C.J. North. Mr. Whitebread^ you have your Qbjeftion, and. it muft
be obferved- to the Jury. Your repeating of things fignifie nothing.
Then. .Captain Hill Jlood Hp.
Fenvptck: Pray Sir, what do you know of Mr. Bedloe
Mr. J. Pemberton. But don't ask any thing before the Pardon.
Capt. Hill. I knew him in the MarJhalfej.
Fenvpick^ In what condition was he there, Sir .<?
Capt HilL He was a poor map, as I be, and lived upon the Basket.
_^ JTarcourts How long ago is it fince ypu knew him there
Capt. Hill. In Map was twelve Month.
L. C. J. That was iong before hig Pardon. But he might be an hopeft
man for all that, though he were as poor as you. Are you an honeft man i
Cipt. Hill. Yes, I think fb.
L, C. J. And fb might he be. Well, have you any more ^
Trifoners. No.
Sir (^r. Levins. Gentlemen of the Jury, you have heard the Prifbners,
aud they have had a great deal of time to make their Defence 3 but the
great^fl part of their Defence hath been to invalidate the Teftimony of
Ms^.p^tes 3 and what is the Evidence they have brought againft him
they tell you firft. That he did not come over in that Company that he
fays- he came over with. And whereas he hath fworn he was here the
24^^. of /ipril, they have taken a great deal of pains by fifteen or fix-
teen WitnefTes to prove that he was all the time atSt.c>«»er.f 3 and that
Sir John Warner^ and Sir Thomts Pre/ion, whom he tells you came
over in Company with him, never ftir'd from the places of their Reft-
4ence, that is Liege and Watton^ all that time: but this, Gentlemen, you
muff obferve,that if Mr. Oates were out of the Cafe, all thefe perfbns ex-
ceptlVIr.Tamer are proved guilty of the Treafon they are charged with 5
and yet I (hall fet up hisTeftimonyj, and make him clear,.notwithftand-
ing whatfbever hath been alledged againft him. Gentlemen,to take them
iporder, Mr. WhitebreadhzxhMx.Dngdale.^ Mr. Bedloe, and Mr. Prance,
to prove him Guilty, let what will come of Mr. Oatet, all of them fpeak
to him.
L .C.J.
L. Ch. Jufl. Pr^nce^ do you fpeak any thing againft Mr. whitehread ?
Mr. Prance, No.
Mr. Record. It was Fentvick and Harcourt.
Sir Chr, Levins, But there is Bedlovp and Du^dale againft Mr.whiiehreadi
and therefore, Gentlemen, there are two have fworn againft him, befides
Oates ; and there is two againft Mr. Fenrvick at leaftjnay, there are three,
for befides Oates there is bedlorv and prance • as to Mr. Harcourtj there is
Bedlovp^ Dftgdale and Prance^ befides Mr. Oates 5 as to Mr. Gaven^ there is
Oates and Dugdale • indeed there is none but Oates and Dugdale againft
turner 5 fo that as to the three firft however there are two WitnefTes be-
fides Mr. Oates^ that is, againft Mr. whitehread^ Mr. fenvpick^ and Mr.
Harcourt. Now as for Mr. Oates's Teftimony,and what they have to fay to
him 5 in the firft place, they have brought a young Gentleman, Mr.Hiljley^
and he fays he did not come over with him, and there 'tis one againft one,
but Dr. Oates hath fworn it, and hath given you fuch convincing Cir-
cumftances how he loft his Money, drc. fo that I leave it to you which of
the two is in the right, and ought to be believed. But then, my Lord, as
to the reft of the Witneffes, here are a great many brought over to prove
that Mr. Oates was all the while at St. Omers • but I fliall bring you a coO'
fiderable number of WitnefiTes to prove that Dr.Oates w^s then in London.,
and that all tliefe perfons are miftaken. They do all pitch upon the firft
of MajjLO fix it upon a time wherein he fays he was here in Town: ButGen-
tiemen, I hope you did obferve, that as to other things and time that were
not fo necelTaryas to this matter, there they were pleafed to miftake,
and to differ one from another, to contradid: one another ; for fome of
them faid he went away and left St. Omers the loth day of June, others
the 23th, others, which was the fame Gardiner, that he ftaid till
July. Truly half that variance in the time v\'hich isneceffary would
fcrve our turn, we are but for eight days time, that is, he was not above
eight or ten days here, truly thefe Gentlemen will be fure to fpeak pun-
dually to all thofe eight days that hurt the Prifoners, but they will vary
thirty days at another time that hurts them not. Why may they not
be miftaken as well with that portion of time, as they were in the
other wherein they fo much differed one from another ?
But I fhall give you raoft infallible proof by and by, that Mr. Oates was
in England at that time that he faid he was in England. My Lord, as to
that of Sir John Warner, truly we have fent for a Witnefs, but we did
not know of the Objedion before 5 they have now brought you the Gar-
diner, and he did fay pofitively at firft that Sir John warner was there all
that while, but being asked again how he knew it, he faid it was the talk
of the Country, and fo feme of the WitnefTes did fpeak to Sir Tho. Pre-
fion. But then I did defire to know of thefe VVitnefles, whether thefe
perfons were never abfent from thefe places or not, they told me they
were abfent for fome time in the Vacancy.
Gaven. That was in Augufl.
Sir chr. Levins. You are very good at expounding I know, but what
thofe Vacancies wxre I am not certain • but being apt to miftake a little,
they might miftake the time too, and they might extend their Journey
beyond their Vacancy. Mr, Gaven he hath made a mighty defence I muft
confefs, endeavouring to prove that he was out of Town all June and
July^ and in Afril and May before, and truly he hath brought fome Wit-
X ndles
neffes that have fpoken very far for him as to thofe Woneths, but I'w ill
defire you to obferve, as 1 know you did, that the three laft Witne0es
that knew him very well did affirm pofirively that'he was there the laft
week in Juljy but being asked to the week before that, and the week be-
fore thatj they could not be pofitive. And under favour by: that Evh
dence you will believe rather that he was not t.here, for if lobe they could
fo pofirively remember for the laft week^ w hyolhc uld they not be as po-
fitive for the two weeks before ? why thefe two w eeks were enough to
ferve our turn, for it was towards the latter end of that which Mr.
Ontes hath fworn upon Mr. GAVen^ that he W'as in Town, and talked of
the fame Matters which he had written the Letter about:* And there-
fore it is much to be prerumed,that becaufe the Witneffes will take upon
them as to the laft week, they are fure he was at Wolverhampton^ but as
to the two other weeks they could not be fure, that they fpeak with feme
Confeience, and therefore it may be true that he was here. And the
Woman faid Ihe could not fay but polTibly he nrtighr make fuch a Journey
and Ihe never the wifer. So that under favour,Gentlemen, all that which
Mr. Gavert hath fo induftrioufly endeavoured to lay upon Mr. Oates, does
Ihrink into a very flender Evidence, and that it might well be he was at
London at the time that Gates fays,the three laft Witneffes fpeaking pofi-
lively only to the laft week in July.
Then truly, my Lord, they are fixed upon another great matter to ble-
milli Mr. Gates as to Mr. Lreland^z perlbn that is dead and out of the way.
Mr. Irelandhzth. been hanged upon that Evidence, fo far it was believed,
but now after all this will thefe Gentlemen come to queftion the Evi-
dence that was given againft Mr« Ireland. They have likev iit, my Lord,
brought ray Lady Southcott.^ and feme other perlous, m ho give you an E-
vidence concerning Mr. Ireland., that he Ihould not be here at this time,
but Gentlemen under favour Mr. Gates hath fworn before, and he hath
now fworn it again, that Mr. Ireland vi as at that time in London., and
Gentlemen I will confirm him in that by another Witnefs that did fee
him here in Town at that time. And when you have two Witneffes
for the King upon their Oaths come and teftifie it, 1 hope you will believe
them, rather then other perfons that teftifie only by bear-fay. It was the
matter then in IffuCjandhad favedhis Lifeifithad been true,but though
it be now fetled, and none could think it would be again ftarted.they
would make that an Objedion, but by chance we have a Witnefs ftili to
give you fatisfadion, that Mr. Irelandvjzs in London at that time that
Mr. Dates did fwear him to be. We will begin with that Witnefs a-
bout Ireland. And then we will call our Witneffes to prove that Mr.
Gates was in England^znd. did come over when he laid he did. Call Sarah
Paine. (Who was fworn.^
Sir Chr. Levins. What time did you fee Mr. Ireland in London ? Did
you fee him in Augufi laft ?
S. Paine. I faw him about feven or eight days before I came to my
Lord Chamberlain, and that was about a vi eek before the King went to
JVindfor,
L. cht Jujf. Where:^id you fee him ?
S. Paine, At his own door in Rufjel street.
L. ch. Jufi. Did you fpeak to him ?
S. Paine. No, I knew him very v ell, and faw him as I came by.
Sir chr. Levins, Had not you carried many Letters to him ?
S. Paine, Yes, feveral Letters, Sir
C79)
Slf chy. Levins. But where did you live before ?
S.Pnine. Hived at Mr.
Sir chr. Levins. Did not Mr. IreUnd ufeto come there too?
S-.Pnine. Yes, he did often. ^
L. C 'n. Was an/ one talking with Irelm'd then ?
S. P.tine. N ).
Sir chr. Levins. H )W long did you look upon him ? Did you fee him gd
in ? did you I'ee his Face or his Back ?
S. Paine, I law his Face, and made him a Curtefie.
L. ch. Jiffi. This fhe faid to Ireland's Face.
Mr. Jup. Dolben. Your Evidence is that Mr. Ireland went out of Town
the 5tbof and Ihe fays fhe faw him about that time, which rauft
be the 12thor 14th of Augufl.
Gaven. How does ihe prove it ? Ihe does not fay Ihe fpoke with him,
Mr; Jufl. Dolben. Shefwearsit.
S\r chr. Levins. Now wemuft prove what time the King went to
Windfor.
L. ch. Jujl. Sir Tho. Dolemany what time in Augufi did the King go to
windfor laft Summer ?
Sir Tho. Doleman. I believe (I cannot charge my memory fo well} it was
the 15th, it was about the 12th or 13th.
L. ch, JuJL Was my Lord Chamberlain there then ?
s. Paine. My Lord Chamberlain went after the King.
L. ch. Jufl. And when do you fay you faw Ireland ?
s. Paine. I faw him feven or eight days before I went to my Lord Cham-
berlain's, which was before my Lord went to Windjori and that was a
Week after the King went thither.
Sir chr. Levins. Now I'll tell you what fhe fays 5 ihe fays ihe faW Ireland
a Week before ihe went to my Lord Chamberlain's, and ilie faw him go
into Grove's Houfe, where he did ufually go for Letters; ihe fays ihe faw
his Face, and made him a Curtefie / and that this was a Week before
ihe went to my Lord Chamberlain's, and that was a week after the
King went to Windsor. Now the time that Mr. Dates pitches upon is be-
tween the eighth and the twelfth of Augujl.^ which by computation is the
time ilie fpeaks of.
Gaven. And our Witneifes go from the third of Attgufi to the four-
teenth of September.
Sir chr. Levins. Call Sir RichardBarkeryWiUiam walker^ Sarah Ives^ &c.
mlliamwalker was firft fworn, and bid to ftand up.
Sir chr. Levins. Pray, Sir, do you know that Mr. Dates was in England
the beginning of laft Summer ? Pray tell your whole knowledge.
Mt.walker. Yes, my Lord, I will. WizvoknownMr. Tkus Dates
feven years, and had not ieen him above five years 5 but about two years
a-go I did meet him in Nevogate-market^ and then again in the latter end
of the Month of March i^ySjOr the beginning of April.,! fee Mr. Gates
in a dilguife,in a gray Searge Coat,and I think a gray Hat,but I did not un-
derftand it,nor did I know him to be the man-, and I was very much troubled
that I could not recoiled my felf who he was, and I went to Bed,and could
not recoiled who he was 5 but before I rofe in the morning 1 did draw
him within the Scheme of my knowledge that it was Titus Oates^ and to
(go)
confirm my Judgment in that, I did go to a Gentlewoman, whofe name
1 did not know, but I went thither becaufe it was the i'ame place that I
had feen him at a year before, to enquire what became of Mr. Oates, and
how he did: And when I came to her (in the morning early, it was the
next day after I had feen him in the Difguife) I enquired of the Gentle-
woman how Mr. Ontes did, and ihe clapped her hand upon her Countc/J
being a Tradefwoman, 0^, faid fhe, be is an undone man. ivhy fo, faid I;
faid fhe, be is turned to the church of Rome, and he abfconds and hides him-
felfi Iknovo not vohere he is \ then in f lain terms^ faid I, / faiv him later
than you, for / faw him Tejlerday, between nine and ten of the Clock it rvas,
at the upper end of St. Martins-lane, near Leicefter Houfe,
Sir Chr. Levins. What time was this ?
Mr. walker. This was in April, or March laft was a Twelve-month.
L. ch. fufi. Did you never fee him more than then ?
Mr. walker. No, I knew his Face fo well, as I looked back upon
him, and he looked back upon me, but it was with fome kind of ter-
irour, and he did feem toabfcond and hide himfelf.
L.ch. JuJl. When was this?
Mr. walker. It was fometime from the latter end of March to the mid-
die of April.
L. Ch. why did you skip the beginning of April ?
Mr. walker. I am not able to remember exactly the time 5 for why, I
did never think to be called as a Witnefs about it.
L. ch. Jujl. Did you fpeak to him ?
Mr. walker. No, my Lord, I did not.
L. ch. ^ufi. How long before had you fpoke to him ?
Mr. Walker. A year before, but in his Canonical Habit, and not before
of five years.
L. ch. Morth. You will not fure catch him upon a day.
L. ch. Juft. But ril tell you what it does, it contradidls all that
your Boys, all your Witnefles fay ; Though it does not go home exadrly
to the24th of April, yet, if it be true, and we have no reafon to believe
it otherwife, it difproves all their Evidence 5 for they charge him to have
been at St. Omers all March, April and May.
Sir chr. Levins. Swear, Sarah Ives, (Which was done.)
Dr. Oates. My Lord, we bring Sarah Ives to prove that this fame
Gentleman went to her to enquire of her about me.
L. ch. Juf. Pray Mrs. what did that Minifter fay to you, and when,
concerning Mr. Oates ?
Mrs. Ives. Mr. walker came to my Shop, and asked me when I faw
Mr. Dates- faid I, I have not feen him fince he went heiond Sea, Then, faid
he, I have feen him later than you, for I was going to Leicefter Fields, and
at the end of St. Martins-lane I faw him in a Difguife, and he looked wijhly
back upon me, and / upon him, and, faid he, I am certain it was the
man.
L. ch. Juf. What time was this ?
Mrs. Ives. It was April was a Twelve-month.'
L. ch. Juf. What time in April do you think ?
Mrs. Jvts. I cannot fay the day.
L, ch. juJl, But what time of the Month was it ?
Mrs. Ives.
(80
Mrs. Ives, I don't juftly know, I think it was the middle of A^ril^ ot
thereabouts.
L.ch .fuji, Call another Witnefs.
Sir Chr. Levins. Call Mrs. Mnyo. (Who- was fworn.)
Sir chr. Levins. Well, what fay you, when did you fee Dr. O &tes in
'England,'*
Mayo. I never faw his Face till a Week before fvhisfontide, or a little
after; there was a young man, a Servant of Sir Richard Barker s, that
knew him a long time before • he came to me and faid, Tender is Mr. Gates
hath changed his Coat from a black to a white - what is he 1 faid I; he was
a Minifler, hut he is either turned Quaker or Catholick . but, faid I, he is
not turned Quaker, for he wears a Perriwig, and he he fell a laughing and
jeering at him; faid I, why do you deride this Gentleman,^ when he is a
friend of Sir Richard Barker'/.,
L. Ch. fufi. Where was Mr .Oates then ? ' .
Majo. He was in the Court-yard, and I was in the Kitchen.
L. ch. Juft. When was this ?
Mayo. The Week before T rhitfontide.
1.. C^. In what Month ?
Mayo. It was in May.
L. ch. 9uf. Did you know him before then ?
Mayo. No, I did not, but I had heard much of him in the Family.
L. ch. fufi. How foon did you fee him again after that ?
Mayo, About a Week after he came and brought another with him,
and walked into the Garden, and feemed to be difcontented that
they did not Ihew fuch a Countenance to him as they ufed to do in the
Houfe, for the Gentlewomen had heard he was turned fefuite, and there-
fore were very Ihye. that is. Sir Richard's Kinfwomen, ray Ladies Sifters
Daughters.
- L. ch. fufi. Do you know Dr. Oates now ?
Mayo. Very well, Sir. Afterwards he came again and walked into the
Garden, and the young man I fpoke of before, that is now dead, came
again and took notice of him, of theftrange Garb he was in ; he was in a
Room that looked into the Garden, I faw him walking there, and faid he.
Tender is Oates again, and hath brought another with him ; he looked out
of the Window, and faid he, Prithee look here, does not he look like a
Jefuite? and he that was with him looked back, and if it had not been
for that, and the young man's importunity, I had never taken notice of
Mr. Oates. After when I heard he was come over and gave in his Tefti-
mony about the Plot, I would needs go fee him; but he fpoke very
llightingly to me, and feemed to be offended with the Family becaule
they did fcorn him. Said I, They had no reafon to countenance you, becatfe
we aU underfiood you were turnedQ^xdnnXvdk. They did, faid he, look njery
Jhye upon me. Why, faid I, you mufi not be offended, for you know all the
Family are no friends to Jefuites, and I hope never will be fo ■ but I hope,
Mr. Oates, you will not forget eaten Bread, becauje he ufed to be made very
much of at Sir Richard Barker's.
Sir chr. Levins. Is that the man that you faw there ?
Mayo. This is the man, if you will put me to my Oath again I will
fwear it.
Sir chr. Levins. When was this ?
Mayo. It was the Week before it was in J/i/, fotWhit-
fontide fell in May. Y Sit
C80 '
SnChr, Levins. Th&nQdW Philip pAge. (Who was fworn.)
Sir Chr. Levins. Do you know Dr. Oites I
Page. Yes, Sir.
chr. Levins. How long have you known him 2
Page. I have known him four or five years.
L. ah. Jufi. Pray did you fee him in the year 1678, laft year ?
page. Yes, I did.
L. Ch. Juft. At what time ?
page. About the beginning of May.
L.ch.Juft. Where?
Page. At Sir Richard Barker's.
L. Ch. fufi. Were you acquainted with him before ?
Page. I had fpoke with him before.
L. ch. p[l. How do you know it was he, did you fpeak withhim then ?
page. Yes, I did.
L. Ch. fuft. What Habit was he in ?
Page. He had a light-coloured Campaign Coat. I ask'd him where he
had been fo long a time that we had not leen him, but he turned away
from me, and gave me no account, but after he had been in the houfe, made
back again, and away he went, after he enquired for Sir Richard.
L. ch. Jujl. How do you know it was in May^ why might it not be in
yipril ?
page. It was in the beginning of May., to the beft of my knowledge.
L. ch. 'iuli. By what material Circumftances do you remember it was in
the beginning of Mayl Is there any thing that puts it into your mind
more particularly ?
page. My Mailer had a Patient at that time that was fick of a Feaver.
L. ch. fujf. Where ? at Sir Richard Barker's Houfe ?
Page. At ijlington it Was.
Jury. We defire to know what the Patients name was, for fome of us
knove l[lingtonwQxywd\.
Page. I have forgot the name.
Sir Rich. Barker. It was Aldram Milvers Daughter.
L. ch. Jufi. It was about that time in May that you faw him. '
Page. I did upon my Oath, and I fpoke with him, and took much no-
tice of him, he had an old black Hat on that flapp'd, and a pair of Spanijh-
Leather fhoos. • - u
Sir Chr. Levins. Call Sir PJch. Barker. (Who was fworn.)
L, ch. fufi. Do you know Dr. Oates ? ■ I •
Sir Rich. Barker. Yes, my Lord, I have known his Father and hint eVer
fince he hath been a Child; I faw him the laft Summer. - ' . '
L. ch. Jufl. About what time ? . ."
Sir Rich. Barker. At that time that they have given in Evidence I have
only this to fay, I was abroad, as my bufinefs leads me often abroad into
the Country, but they told me Mr. Oates came to my houfe in a DifgUife,
and that they believed he was turned either Quaker or Papift.
L. ch. }uft. When was this ?
Sir Rich. Barker, It was, my Lord, to the beft of my remembrance,
after whitjontide that they told, me, but they told me a Story of him,^how
that he was in two feveral Difguifes, the one was a fhort Hair, and then
they thought he was turned Quaker.^ another time he had a long Perriwig,
and then they thought he was turned Papift-^ and the firft that told me was
this Fellow here that is a Coachnian of mine who was mending fomethihg
Ills Coach. It happened, my Lord, upon the vifiting of a Gentleman that
I was very ill, in which time Mr. Oates was gone, and afterwards when I
was recovered again he came to my houfe to enquire concerning Dr*
Tongue.
L. ch. Jufi. When did you fee him firfl: ?
Sir Richard Barker, It was my Lord to the beft of my remembrance the
latter end of June^ or beginning of July^ upon my Recovery.
L. ch. Jufl. By the Oath that you have taken, I would ask you one
Queftion, Did not you fee him till June ?
Sir Richard Barker. No my Lord: but my Servants told me they had
fecn him in May before pvhitfontide.
L. ch. Jufi. Did you fee him in June ?
Sir Richard Barker, To the beft of my remembrance it was in June,
Then one Butler was fworn.
L. ch. Jufi. Come do you know Dr. Oates ?
Butler. Yes, very well.
L. Ch. Juft. How long have you known him ? "
Butler. I have known him thefe three years, before he Went beyond
Sea.
L.ch.Jufi. Come, you are upon your Oath, when did you lee Dr.
Oatefy and where, the beginning of laft Summer ?
Butler. Ifaw him the beginning of laft Maj at my Mafters houfe ill
B&r'oican.
L. ch. JuJt. Upon what occafion ? what are you? • • '
Butler, I am Sir Richard Barkers Coachman. And I was making clean
my Coach in the Gate-houfe, and in comes Dr. Oates.^ in May laft Was a
twelve-Moneth, the beginning of May 5 with his Hair cujt off, clofe cropt
to his Ears, in Gray Cloaths, a Gray Coat like a Shepherds Coat, a Tork-
//j;>^-Gray,he asked me whether Dr. Tongue was within,! told him no,ner
verthelefs he went into the houfe, and immediately came out again, and
feemed to be very much difcontented, but faid nothing at all to ine, but
pafs'd by mcjand went away. '
L. ch. Jufi. And did you know him at that time he fpoke to you firft ?
sutler. Yes, my Lord, becaufe I knew him three years before,
L. ch. Jufi. Could you have then call'd him by his name ?
Butler. Yes, .my Lord, I could.
L. ch. Jufi. You fay he came to inquire for Dr. Tongue, andwasdif-
contented that he could not fee him. ,
Butler. He faid nothing to me when he came out, but pafs'd away as
one that was troubled. -
L. Ch. Juflice. Did you fee him afterwards ?
Butler. Six weeks after I faw him j and then he had a long black Coat
and a Perriwig on.
L, ch. Jufi. But are you fiire it was the lame man ?
Butler. I am, upon my Oath.
Mr. Juft. Dolben. Did you tell your Mr. of his being there the firft
time?
Butler. I did tell Sir Richard Barker of him as foon as I faw him.
L. ch. fufi. Sir Richard, how foon did he tell you Oates was firft
there ? ,
Sir Richard Barker, It was foon after, ray Lord.
L. ch. Jujl. Was it in May that he told you he had feen him ?
Sit -Richard Barker. He told me as foon as ever I came home, in Muj as
I remember. L.Ch,
(8+)
L. ch. Jufi. Did he tell you Mr. Oafes was there by name ?
Sit Rich. Birker. Yes, my Lord, he did; And when he told me what
Habit he was in, I wondred at it.
Dr. Oiites. There are fcveral,my Lord,that did fee me at that time, but
they are gone into the Country, and I cannot have them now ready : If
you pleale now to call Mr. smithy theSchool-mafterof ijlington.
Who was fworn.
Sir Chr. Uvins. Do you know Dr. Oates ?
Mt. Smith. Yes, very well.
Sir. chr. Levins. Pray,Sir, How long have you known him ?
Mr. smith. He was my Scholar at Merchant-Tnylors School, where I
was Ullher.
Sir chr. Levins. When did you fee him the beginning of laft Summer \
Mr. Smith. I faw him in the beginning of laft that is 1678.
L.Ch. Jufi. Where did you fee him ?
Mr. Smith. He dined with me at my Houfe in Jflington.
Mr. JnJi. Dolben. What, the Boys at S. Omers now are gone ?
L. ch. Jttjl. Recoiled: your felf well: By the Oath you have taken,
did Dr. OAtes in Ma ] was twelve-moneth dine with you ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, my Lord, he did j and it was the firft Monday in May^
as I remember.
Mr. Ju(l. Dolben. And this you fwear diredly and pofitively ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, my Lord, I do.
X,. ch. Jufl. How long did he ftay there ?
Mt. Smith. HeftaLd 3 or 4 hours after: And, may it pleafe you my
Lord, he was in a Summer fuit, anda coloured Ribbon, a green knot up-
on his flioulder.
X. Ch. What did you difcourfe about ?
Mr. Smith. About his being in s^Ainj and Flanders.^ and his Travels.
X. ch. Juji. Had you a long difcourfe with him ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, I had.
x'. Ch. hft. Had you nothing about the Times ?
Mr. Smith. No, my Lord, not a word.
X. ch. fufi. Did you underftand he had been turned Romatt Catholick ?
Mr. Smith. I did know it.
'}ttry. My Lord, did Mr. Smith lee him any other time after that ?
Mr. Smith. No, my Lord, not in two Months, to my remembrance
about the middle of Augufi.
Sit chr. Levins. Call one (who Was fworn.)
h .ch. Do you know Dr. O Ate si
Mt.cUf. Yes, my Lord, I do.
X. ch. How long have you known him I
Mr. cUy. Ever fince April lift was twelve-month.'
X. ch. ?ufi. Was that the firft time of your Acquaintance with him ?
Mr. Clay. Yes, at Mr. Charles Horvards.
X. Ch. fKjl. Where were you there with him ?
Mr. clAy. He lived in one corner of old Arundel-houfe.
L. ch. fall. How came you acquainted with him ?
Mr. clay. Truly I met him accidentally at Mr. Howards houfe.
L.Ch. ^ajl. How came you to come there ?
Mr- cIa ). I was tliereto vifit Mr. Howard as a Friend.
X. ch. Were you acquainted with him ?
Mx.Clay. Yes. I was with Mr. Howard^ and there I faw Dr. Oates.
L. ch. Jtfjl. When did you fee him the fecond time? Mr, Clay,
C85)
Mr. Clay. The fecond time I think I law him there tOd.
LX.J. When was that ?
Mr. Cky. That was in May.
L.C.J. North. How long was that after.
Mr. Clay. I think the other was in April.
L.C.J. And did you fee him in May .<?
Mr. Clay. I few him in May too.
L .C .J. What time of the month was it ?
, Mr. Clay. I cannot exadly (peak to that, but it was in that month sa t
remember, I am morally certain of it.
L.C.J. And when did you fee him after May P
Mr. tlay. I can't tell whether I few him after May or not.
L.C.J. Is that the feme man that you few at Mr. Howards either in
April ox May p
Mr. clay. Yes, my Lord, it is the feme man.
Sir Chr. Levins. Then we have done with our Evidence.
L.C.jf. Come Gentlemen, now what can you fey to this? They have
given you now their full Charge.
Dr. Oates. My Lord, I haVe one thing more, I defire your Lordflaip to
take notice, this Gent. Mr. Clay is a Prieft in Orders, as they fey.
L.C.J. I will not ask him that queftion j but Mr. Clay^ are you aPapift?
Mr. clay. Yes, my Lord, I am lb.
L.C.J. North. Come what fey you now Mr. Whitebread to this.
Whitehread. I have this to fey 5 firft. That at my laft Trial when I
prefe'd him to declare who had feen him, when he feid he was herein
Town, he could name no body,not one. I know afterwards he was exa^
mined at the Committee, and then he could name no body neither. He
feid he was there privately at Mr. Groves, and we can prove that he ne*
ver did lye there in his life. And then he feid abfblutely he had not feen
much Company, heftay'd but 6 days. Now this good Dr. that does fey he
few him here in the latter end of March, or the middle of April, wherea$
he hifflfelf fays he came over with Hiljleyxhe 24th. of April.
L.C.J. He was Landed here the 1 yth.o( April, and the Witnefles fey it
was the latter end of April, or beginning of May.
Whitehread. Mr. Oates exprefly feid he ftay'd here but 6 days when he
Carrie over to the Confelt.
L.C.J. Why does not all this ftand together P
Whitebread. No, my Lord, how could this ftand together? His coming
over the ijth. and his being here a great part in May, whereas he feysj
be was but 6 days.
L.C.J. Perchance Dr. Oates may be precife enough, but look you here^
thefe Witnefles do not fo exadly to a day or two, or 9, or 4 or 5, but to
the latter end of April: noW why might they not fee him the latter end
of April, and the beginning of May, and yet ftand very well with Mr.
Oates teftimony, who feys he was Landed here about the i yth. of April
and ftay'd here about 6 or 7 days? How nice would you have them beir)
that cafe, which becaufe they are honeft, they will not be.
L.C.J. Nor. You make your defences to depend upon an uncertainty of
time, which no mortal man can ever remember^ belides, pray obferve this;,
That Mr. Oates ftands a good Witnefe till you impeach him by a fry out of
your own Schools, and they go to the whole Moneths of June and April^
andA%, now thefe all Ipeak in contradidion to them, andCo Mr. Oates
ftill fet an upright and good witnefe. % White-
(86)
Whitcbiread. They (ay they did fee him there every day, or every other
day,
L.C.J. But fure I can as well tell who fee him but once in (iich a month
and dined with him then as any that faw him never (b often 5 but here
are five witneffes upon you in this point,
Whitebread. The one was told by his man, the other by his boy. .
L.C.J. The Coach-man, and the Boy, and the Maid, and Mr. Smith did
£ee him.
Mr. JtiJl. Pembemnii The Divine did fee him, and went and told the
woman that he had feen him, pray remember that.
L.C.J. Nor. Now the Evidence is concluded, (ay what you will
for your felves, and then we will obferve what youobjeft upon ourDi-
reftion to the Jury, according to our Confciences.
Gamn. My Lord, then I (ay this for my felf, We commit our felves to
God Almighty. Wemuft compare the number, tho ours were not (worn,
yet there were 16 ofthem, boys,young men,that converfed with himevery
day, and thefe Witnefles (peak but of one or two particular days: One
fays he dined with him, and another (aw him in a Dilguife, but ray Lord,
in thefe very Witnefles there is an apparent contradiftion, becaufe out of
his own mouth ( ex ore ttio tejudico) they are contradifted. He (ays he
came over upon Sunday with HilJIey, which was the ioth. of April as I
think, and (lay'd here only a matter of 6 days. One of the WitneflTes (ays
he (aw him the firft Monday m May. What fignifie the Witneffes, though
tiponQath, that (ay they (aw him in May ^ How can he come over the
dioth.of April, and ftay but 6 days, and be feen here in May ^ Before thefe
can be rfeconciled, one of them muft be falfe 5 and then my Lord, befides,
that which I firft (aid, there is the number of Witneffes, they are nothing
in comparilbn with the number of ours. And then my Lord, '2dly, if we
fhould grant that a leffer number (hould ferve the turn, becaufe they are
(worn for the King, becaufe they (wear for the (afety of the King (whom
God preferve, what(beVer becomes of me) and the other fpeak not upon
their Oaths, yet my Lord, this does not deftroy nor touch at all that Evi-
dence that is brought againft him about theReftor of Leige, Six John
Warner, and Sir Tho. Prefion. And tho it be granted, that all the others
that (^ke about Mr. Gates being at St. Omers be miftaken, and muft not
be believed, yet we have him ftill by thofe 6 others, who have proved that
he hath (worn falfe, and I hope we (hall have fair play in the Law to make
the beft defence we can for our Lives ^ and I humbly conceive, no body
muft be convifted of High Treafon by the Law, but upon the Evidence
of two (ufficient Witnefles. Now I leave it to the Confeience and Ho-
nour of the Court, whether he (hall be believed, and counted a (ufficient
Witnefs, when there are (b many that have proved him falfe in that one
point. And then befides all this my Lord, we have here 16 at lead Staf-
ford-Pire WwatbdQS, who give you an account of Mr. IrelandshCiug out of
London from the '^d. of Auguji till 14 Sept. (b that in thefe two things
he hathbeen contradifted without any Anfwer, for he (ays, the 12th. of
Augtijl he was with him, when they fay he was in Stafford-pire.
jf.C.J. You have forgot the Maid that (aw him in London the 12 or 15.
Gavan. No, my Lord, I have not. And this is it I an(wer to it, She is a
Witne(s that only (ays (he juft (aw him, but did not (peak to him.
L.C.J. She made a Courtefie to him.
Gavan.
Gavan. We are talking now of feeing Ireland in Augujl^ arid We
prove by Sir John ISonthcot and all his Family, who fay they began
their Journey with him the 5^^ Augnji, and flay'd with him till
the ipr/*, after the particular day that ftie fpeaks of, yOu find 7 or 8 of
themfwear that they faw him all the time. And therefore t would feign
know whether poor mens lives fhallbe caft away upon fiich Evidence as
this. And then my Lord, for the other thing, I hope I have made a very
good Plea for rUy felf concerning the matter o^Julj/, my Witneffes Could,
be pofitive as to the laft week,but for the other weeks, though they could
not be pofitive, they rather believed I was there then not, but when it is
urged, why might not they give as good a teftimony for the former weeks
as for that. To thisi anfwer fully, that there is a great and predominant
reafbn why they ftiould haVe a particular reafon to (wear why Ifhould be
there the laft week rather than the other weeks, becaufe I was then (hut
up in the fpi ritual exercife, and they had a particular reafbn tb take no-
ticeof that. Then my Lord, Lhope you will be pleafed to mind this by
which I have made my Plea good, that is, my Lord, that Mr. Orfte/sTefti-
mony againft me is this, Mr. Aphy came to Town about' the middle of
Jffly, and that he ftay'd there about a fortnight, and that in the time of
that fortnight I came to Town, and laid I would go fee Father Ajhhy^ and
had that difeourfe he fpeaks of 5 and fb much for that. And then my Lord,
I befeech you ftill to bear it in your mind that I have been proved not to
be in Town at the time of the great Conlult about the Plot, and indeed I
Was not capable of it, for I was not then Profeflred,and there could none
be of that Congregation about the Plot, but thofe that were Profcffed. I
could not be there in the Congregation by reafbn of my ^'ge,MT.Harcourf
here and the reft, if you will ask them, will tell you it, they were there,but
upon the word of a dying man I^as not there.
L. C. J. 'Tis not pofitiVely feid by Mr. Gates that you were.
Gavani But then my Lord, ne fays, my Name was to it, which he faw
in July, now I prove that I was in Staffbrdjlnre the laft week of July^ and
feeing I have Witneffes to prove that I was there till the 14^^, and the laft
week, and it was after the t4f^ that he faw me, I hope my Plea is good.
Then my Lord, I ground my Plea upon this, I have ftudied Philofophy
and other things, but I never ftudied the LaW, and fb am Very ignorant
of it 5 but this is my Cafe, I am accufed by one Witnefs concerning one
Faft, and by another concerning another, the one committed hereatL<?»-
don^ theoih&x mStaf or djhire I defire therefore to know whether the
Witnefs that fwears the thing done in Staffbrd^nre in another County
being joyned to the other Witnefs that fwears what was done in London^ -
can be efteemed two witneffes according to the Law, to convid tne of
Treafbn.
L. C. J. North. Yes, He tell you if it were a matter of doubt, it might
be found fpecially, and be argued, but it is a matter that hath been already
refolved in the Cafe of Sir Henry Vane at the Kings Bench Barr, who was.
Indided for levying War againft the King, and there one Witnefs proved
the levying of War in one County, and the other proved the levying of
War in another County, and fb though they were butfingle witneffes of
fingle Fads, yet being both came up to the Indidmentjthey were ad judged
fufScient to maintain it. So it is in your Cafe, here is one Witnefe for thef
proving your hand to the Paper, which was for the Murder of the King^
and there is another Witnefs of your Difeourfe to the fame purpofe, the
(88)
is your joining and conQjiring to deftroy die King, and to levy War
againft him, and both thele are proved to the full of the Indiftment by
thefe Witnefles; and though they are to leveral particular f afts, yet they
are all Overt afts of the lame Treafon.
Gavan. My Lord, I have a contrary Opinion to that in Serjeant
Koih.
L. C.J, North. But this is a known Cafe,and the Law is fetled therein.
L. C. J. rie tell you what you miflake in what you lay, for there lare
two Witnelles, Oates and Dugdale, who fwear to the lame Faft, which is
killing the King, altering the Government, and bringing in Popery. Oates
lays, He law your hand to the Conlult, for the Murder of the King,
for the railing the Army, and for the introducing of Popery, which i§ a
neceflary confequence of change of Government; Dugdak lays he
with you in the Parlor at my Lord Ajlon\ where the difeourfe was be-
tween him and you, and others, about killing the King, and altering
Religion. Are not thefe twoWitneffes to one and the lame Trealbn?
Gavan. No my Lord, I conceive not.
L. C. J. If I confult a way to kill the King here, and then I go into the
Country and there I confult of it with another pcrfon, are not thele two
Witnelles to the lame Trcalbn, lure they are ?
Gavan. Then my Lord, my fecond Plea is this,If there be two Witnelles,
you will grant me this ground,that no man mull be convifted but upon the
Evidence of two Legal and Credible Witnelles, and upon clear Evidence,
as the Statute lince His Majefties happy Reftauration does declare. Now
two things are required certainly to make a credible Witnels, and a clear
Evidence:, as the Witnels mull be credible, lb it is as agreeable to realbn
that the Evidence mull: be plain and clear, yea as clear as the light of the
Sun at Mid-day. Now therefore if I prove, that neither the Witnels is
credible, luch as the Law requires, nor the Evidence clear, luch as the
Law looks upon aslixch, then I ought not to be convicted by this Witnels
upon this Evidence.
L. c. J. The Jury are Judges of that, and therefore there I leave it.
L.C. J. North. You argue mighty rubtilly,but He give you this Anfwer,
there mull: be two lawful Witneffes,that is the Law, a man cannot be im-
peached of Trealbn but by two lawful Witnefles 5 now if they be not con-
vidted of Perjury, and their Teftimony be not taken away, but they may
be heard in a Court of Juftice, they are lawful Witnefles5 now for the
being credible Witnefles, that is a matter that is left to the Jury, but we
rauft receive them as lawful Witnefles till they be convift of a Crime that
takes away their Teflimony.
G^van. Therefore becaufe they are left to the Jury, I am latisfied, and
I turn my felf to you Gentlemen. You are to lit upon my Life and my
Death, as for my own part I cantruly profefs I am as innocent as the Child
unborn, and this Gentleman Mr. Whitebread knows I was not capable of
being at the Conlult, being not of age. Now I muft leave my felf to the
Jury, and will leave it to their judgements whether thefe two WitneflTes
can be efteemed credible Witnefles^ for to make credible Witnefles there
is required honefty of life, and truth in their Teftimony, for no man can
be a good Witnels that is not an honeft man, flor that hath carried himfelf
fo that he is not to be believed. As to the honefty of Mr. Oates his life,you
have heard that he wasdilgufted by the Jefuites, efteemed not a perfon of
that diligence or fidelity to be intrufted by them 5 He was turned out of
St. Omers. L. C,
(89)
L.C.J. Does that prove any dilhonefty in Mr. Oates ^
Garom. No, but I (peak to his Credibility.
Zy.C.J. Speak plain, how does it impeach Mr, OaUs his Evidence, that
the Jefiiites did not like him.
Gofum. It might be a ground of hatred and malice in him againft themj
and then Gent. I delire you to confider that other thing, That we have
proved him to (peak fal(e in his Teftimony about Sir John Warner and Sir
Tho. Prejion 5 and all the bu(ine(s of the 12th. of Auguji concerning Mr*
Ireland's htmg here the 12th. of Angtift16 Witneffes, is proved
to have been all the while in staffbrd-fl)ire. And though he was not convh
fted of Perjury before,which might have eafily been done,as I have (hewn
to the whole world now, I appeal to the Honor and Conlcience of the
Jury,whether all thele proo6 ought not to make thisWitne(s to be deem'd
an incredible Witne(s. And pray Gent, hear me this, and carry this away
with you, as to the bulinefs of Ireland., between the ^th. and lar/i. of Ah-
guji, how many do (wear that he was in Stajfbrd-fiire, I defire you but to
compare that one Woman that only faw him, and made a Courtefie to
him, as (he (ays, with thole 16 WitnelTes that converled with him daily.
Then as for the 2d. teftimony of the St. Omers Witneffes, which you (ee
is thwarted by (bme that do (wear in the Kings name to the contrary. Still
I delire you to compare number with number, the others though they do
not (wear, are ready to (wear, and there are only 3 or 4 againft 16 of
them, and there is an evident contradidtion in what they (ay, and that:
proved out of his own mouth 5 for he fays became over the 2ctb. of April
With Mx.HilJley., andftay'd only 6 days ; they (ay he was here in May.,
and I delire thefe may be compared: for how could it be that he (hould
be here in May, if he ftay'd but 6 days. And then to make your Verdi(3:,
and take their Credit away,I would delire you to conlider thole Witneffes
that r have brought for my (elf, not being here, but in Wolverhampton 5
for being in Staffbrd-Jhirc as long as till the laft week of Jnly^ it muft fall
within the time of his Teftimony. I haVe brought Witneffes to prove
upon Oath, that from the 2 2 <5?. upward, they (aw ine in Wolvet-hampton,
and they do remember the particular inftance, that I was then at my (pi-
ritual exercKe ; and this is that I have to (ay as to Mr. Oates. As for Mr*
Dngdale, I would delire you to refledt upon the whole ftdry of his coming
to dilcover this Plot, and his being an Informer about it. The truth is, I
confeffe I have known him 5 or 6 years whilft he lived at my
Lord Ajions, and I have divers times dilcourled with him there in
Mr. Evpers Chamber, but as I hope to be laved never any thing
of Treafon in ah my life. Now tis well known , and there are
thole that can teftifie it that in truth Dugdale run away from my
Lord Afions after he had loft 300 li. of my Lords mony.
L. C. J. If you can (ay any thing againft Mr. Ungdale by Witneffes
that you can prove it, then you (ay Well, but if you will tell a
ftory out of one Lords mouth and another Lords mouth, that is never
to be indured, you (hall never take away a mans teftimony by hear-
(ay, you muft prove it.
(90)
Gava/i. Tis well known, if I prove no credible Witne^ I play
my own game.You know I have been a Prifoner 2 o Weeks and could not
fcek out witneffes, I asked it as foon as I knew of my Tryal, but it was
denied me to fend for Witnefs to prove that Dugdale was in Goal for
debt. If I had the Recorders Warrant, or the Authority of this Bench I
could fend for them.
L. C .J. You muft not fall upon Perfons without Evidence, if you have
Witneilesto prove any thing,whom the Jury will believe,call them.
Gavan. I do affure your Lordlhip, as I hope to fee the face of God, I
am innocent of what is Charged upon me. And God blefs the King and
this Honorable Court. ■ '
L .C .J. Though you do 100 times blels the King and Court and all, you
muft prove things if you will be believed. What fay you Mr. WhitC"
breads
Whitehread. My Lord,! have but one thing to lay, and 'tis but a word;
.your Lordfhip was plea fed to make an Obfervation, and a good one.
It was, a Letter which Mr. Dugdale fays was written by me to Mr. Evcers^
which he layes he intercepted, he was in the mean time q trufty corre-
fpondent for his Friend, In that Letter he Swears, there was exprefly con-
tained pofitive words, of entertaining Perfons to kill the King, that only
fuch as were hardy defperate and ftout,butas yourLordlhip welloblerved,
that it was an improbable thing that a man who had his Wits about him
fliould write fuch plain expreflions< about fuch a matter, and upon that
iraprobabiliy. I leave it to the Jury.
» f
Mr. JuJi. Pemhertoji. Have you any thing to lay Mr. Feuwickg ^
Fenmcke. I defire, my Lord, your Lordftiip and the Jury to confider
and oblerve the nature both of our Witneffes, and of them that are
brought againft us. The one fpcak for the whole time that they law him
every day or every other day^ they daily converfed with him and eat
and dranic with him in the fame houfe, the others they fay only they
faw him one particular day, another, another, and one of them fayes he
law him but in a diguife. Now my Lord, whether it be likely that fo
many innocent' Children brought up in a good virtuous Life fhould come
here to forfwear themfelves to contradift people that we know not what
they are, and then befides, we know thatthefe people are of a poor mean
beggarly condition, that intend to mend that condition by fuch a pre-
tence of difcovery, and hope thereby to advance themfelves. It is proba-
ble fuch people might be drawn in. Then alfo we fhall prove that Sir John
Warner did not come over with him, nor Mr. Williams, nor Sir Thomas
Prejion. Then all his Witnefs as to them is filfe, and he does not fay he
went back with thefe people, and this for the Witnefles. Now fuppoie the
Witnefies were all equal, what does he prove againft us Three ? Or what
reafon doth he give of his Evidence. He fayes, he law fuch and fuch
Letters from Mr. Whitehread. Now is it poflible that a man that had
no credit at all with us, that we fliould be fiich fools to truft him with
fuch
C 91)
fuch Letters as thofe, then your Lordftiips rftiifl: hang us twice, bnce
for Fools and then for Knaves. Or is it poffible that we ftiould be
luch egregious Fools that we Ihould truft a man that was never efteem-
ed of, was expelled the Colledge. And for all his talk of Comraiffions
and Letters,there is not one of thofe found,let him fliew any oneComnliffi^
on, any Money paid, or any Order brought him, or any Arms that were
found, there are 3 quarters of a year now paffed fince the firft dilcovery,
certainly all this time could produce fbmething. Thoulands of Letters have
been taken from us, fome of thofe Letters would have difcovered this
thing: certainly therefore we have better Evidence than he hath, fuppo-
ling them to be equal as to credibility in their Original. Is it credible we
fhould be fo great Rogues to contrive the Rings death, though he {peaks
of the writing being carried from Chamber to Chamber concerning this
matter, he can never produce one Paper figned by any one mans hand^
nor can he produce any thing to attefthis Tellim.ony. I leave this to your
Lordfhips judgment whether this Evidence be good, there is nothing
appears in fo much time of any effedl that is produced: Where were the
Armies ? Where were the Moneys paid ? Where the Commiffions ? Is it
poffible foch a thing lliould be,and no fign of it for a whole year almoft ?
there is no reafon brought amongft them alkbut laying and bearing, and
that I will Hand by. - /
f
Whitehread. I thank God I don't look like a fighting-man, nor I never
did 5 but who can think that I ffiould be lb mad, when I had committed
fuch a lecret to him, to beat him, as he lays. 'Tis ftrange that liich a Plot
Ihould be difcovered wherein fo many Pcrlbns of Quality, Honour and
Reputation are faid to be concerned, and yet no foot^fteps of it appear,
and none of them, as my Lord Amfidel^ my Lord Bellajis^ fhould never
divulge fuch a Plot 5 I would feign know whether ffich a thing be pro-
bable, but I commend ;ny lelf to God Almighty, and the Jury.
Harcourt. My Lord, I have only this to lay, I have lived to this age,
which is 7o years,and I never knew any man that could lay I was accufed
of the thing in the world, for which I Ihould be brought before any
Magiftrate, and 'tis ftrange that after fo many years I fhould come to be
Arraigned, and condemned for a Crime of the higheft Nature, and there's
no reafon brought againft me, nor any of the reft, for the proof of what
is alledged, nor do they who are-the Witneffes againft us deferVe at all
any Credit: They only affirm fuch and ffich things without any reafon,
to perlwade you to believe them, and 'tis eafie to lay, and lb 'tis to
fwear it. So that all I have to fay is this, lince a Negative cannot be
proved, I hope Innoceny will find fome that lhall defend it. I leave my
felf to the Bench, for the Law is the defence of Innocency. If they did
" bring any Evidence belides that, which is down right pofitive fwearing,
without any reafon or concurrent reafon to confirm it, it were fome-
thing.
Fenmcke^
C 92 )
Fenwkkfi. hnd befides all this, to think how thefe men have lived
before time is worth refleftion and confidering. As for Bedhe^ he hath
been a very ill man, the world knows it.
L. C. J. Have you proved it ? Can you ftiew any Record of it ?
Mr. JuB. Pemherton, Turner^ Have you any thing to fay ? You have
had your time.
- Feumcks<. You will find that Nmo repetite fit neqmjjlm»s^ No man af-
rives at the higheft degrees of Impiety at firft: men grow extreamly
wicked by degrees. But let us .fee if they can blame our Lives, or any
thing that we have done at any time before 5 we prove, and all the world
knows what they have been, and how fcandaloufly they have lived.
Gavan. Our WitnefTes are to be regarded for their number and for
their innocency, efpecially fince they give no reafbn nor convincing argu-
ments for what they do aflirm.
L.C. J. We would hear you, and we have heard you very long, but
it muft not he permitted you to go over the fame things again and
again.
L. C. Baron. Hath Turner any thing to fay ?
Turner. All that I have to fay my Lord is this. To ask whether it be
reafbnable that Bedloe and Oates fhould be looked upon as good Wit-
neffes, that thefe Perfbns who have been fuch fcandalous people fhould be
admitted to an Oath, who are debarred from the Sacrament^ forac-
cording to the Church of England^ no man that is publickly fcandalous
can be admitted to the Sacrament.
L.C. J. But you prove nothing.
• Turner. I can prove it firfi: by Evidence of one Haffingrt
L. C. J. Call him.
J But he appeared not.
1
The
(Sp)
The Lord Chief Juftide DkeBiojis id the J-
gainft Whitebread, O^e,
.. Lord chief JuH. Gentlemen of the Jury! Here hath been a very long
Evidence, and a very Confuled one; and you cannot expe6t^ that it
fhould be wholly Repeated to you: For it is almoft impoflible, for a-
ny one to remember it; neither would I if I could, becaufe- a great
deal of it is impertinent, and vainly to be repeated : And belides.
Many Things have been laid over, and over again, to no purpofe. But
I will oblerve to you, as well as I can, what Teffimonies there are a-
gainft each particular Man of them; and that I do look upon, to be
very Material. And I leave it to you, to judge and cohfider,- how far
the Evidence is Credible, and how far it is Subftantial.
Againft Mr. Whitebredd, you have the Teftimony of three, Oats, Dug-
daky and Bedlow: Againft Mr. Fenwkky you have the Teftimony of
OatSy Bedlow^ and Vraunce: Againft Hnrcourty you have Oats, Dugdale,
Bedlow. and Praunce. You have againft Gaven, Dugdale it\d Oats-, and
againft Turnery Dugdale and Oats: So that, to the two laft, you have
two, three to the two firft, and four to .
Now, the Matter that they have fvvorri, hath been all tending to'
one thing; the Murder of the Kingy the Advancing of Popery, and the
Suppreflion. of the Protejiant Religion: That is the Thing, that ail the
Evidence does drive at.
For Dugdale, for ought we can pereeivef he hath' been upon the,
matter a Stranger to Oats and Bedlow; aiid'I do not find, that he had
any Correlpondence with, or Kno\Vledge of them,-, at the time he
Charges' Mr. Harcourt, and Mr. Gaven. And he Charges them with'
the very ielf farhe ThingSj viz,, the Confiilting the Death of thcTcingJ
and Advancement of Popery^ And they have leveral Inftances of the
Fads, as' their leveral' Cbnlultations"; How they met together, and'
where, or at what Place:' And Dugdale tells you of a Letter, that he'
found;- wherein whitebread gave Charge, for the Entertainnient of
good ftout Fellows; No matter for Gentlemen, fo they were Refolute.
And fo they have feveral Mediums, to prove one and the fame
Thing.
Mr. Fefiwiek fayes tO all this, Here is nothing againft us, but Talking
and S'^^earing. But for that, he hath been told, (if it were poftible
for him to Learii) that all TTeftimony is but Talking and.Swearing:.
For air Things, all Men's Lives and Fortunes, are determined by an
Oatli; and ail Oath is by Talking, by Kiffihg the-Book, arid calling"
God to Witnels to the Truth of what is laid!' That is the Eflence of
an Oath, and thole are the Ceremonies: The Kifting the Book, and
Speaking, is the accidental Forrn; the Subftance, is Cdling God to
Witnefs. Therefore, What a vain thing is if mMydFenwick, to ieem
to Tryumph, by faying. There is nothing againft lis, but Talking ancf
Swearing. There is riothing agUlnft them, but,Evidence and Proof
of Men upon Oath; And their Realbns; tlie^ Truth is'^ are very Triftesi
They defend "their Lives as they do' their Religion, with 'w^eak Afgu-
idients, and fallacious, Reafons.'
• #b' Fof
(9°)
For that long BufineS, that Mr. Gave;? hath undertaken to fay a-
gainft Mr. Oafs^ and what they all infift upon, viz. the Number of
their WitnelTes, which were Sixteen, amounts to this, to diljirove
Mr. OafSf that it could not be true what he fayes. That he fhould be
prefent here at a Confiilt, the Twenty-Fourth of Jprif, becauie they
have brought Sixteen from St. Omers to prove. That he vras there ail
^pril and May.
'Tis very true now, if that be fo, it is impofSble, Oat; can fwear
any Truth : But whether that is to be believ'd or iio, is the Queftion?
Methinks, they did not do well for themlelves, when they bid you
remember the Nature of the Evidence. They did well enough, to
bid you remember the Number: for the Number is more than what
Oats is back'd with on t'other fide; but the Nature is of much leS
weight: Not only becauie they are not upon their Oaths, for by Law
they may hot be upon their Oaths; (and that muft not be Charged on
them as a Defeft, f^ing they would Swear, I doubt not, if they
might) but becauie their Teftimony is really to be believed much a-
like without an Oath, as with one; becauie they are of a Religion
that can dilpenie with Oaths, tho falfe, for the lake of a Good
Caule.
But, feeing they defire the Nature of the Men may be eonfidered,
you are to obierve, that they are Prolelytes, and Young Striplings of
their Church; which does indeed, in one reipedt or other, abule all
Her Dilciples, and keeps them in a blind Obedience, to purfue and
elFeQ: all Her Commands.
If the Doftrines of that Church were better; If liich which are ah
lowed by their Chief Authors, were but lefs Bloody and Inhumane;
If they had ever put thole that are lb, into an Index Expurgitorim^ that
they might have been publickly difowned, and declared as the Parti-*
cular Opinions ofibme ill Men, which they did dilavoW; Thele Men
might have been then more worthy to be regarded. But when none of
their Popes have done this (who muft have very ftrange Fore-heads, if
they fay, they have) and luch Dodtrines are ftill owned: there is much
indeed to be oblerved from the Nature of the Evidence, the Nature of
the Men, and their Profelfion.
I muft confels, I believe, that they would deny their Principles to
be bloody, or to be defended and allowed by any of their beft Authors, if
at this time, the fear of apparent Fallhood did not deter them : But
if to Murther K in G Sy or to Depole them, and Ablblve their Sub-
jedts from their Allegiance for the Advancement of Religion, be a
Thing moft Impious, and void of Religion, and makes Religion worfe
than none; which Dodtrine yet they have owned, and their Court-
lells have owned, and we have proved it upon them, and out of
them: I cannot tell what to lay to thele Men, or their Teftimony ^
the Nature of whom they defire to be confidered.
But they were Young Boys, lent for hither on purpofe to give this
Teftimoity; and it was not indeed, a Fault in the Prilbners at the
Bar, to lend for what Evidence they could for themfelves: But it is
very doubtful and lufpitious, to have fuch green, and flexible Minds,
thus imploy'd , and I muft leave it to you, to confider how far thele
Young Men train'd in lush Principles, may be prevailed on, to Ipeak
what is not True.
And
(p O
And now if die Kings Evidence after this, ftood alone, it were yet
fomething: but when you have h\x, Oates\ Teftimony as to this great
matter of his appearing in Afril, confirmed by Seven or Eight VV itnelles,
that ipeak id exprefly to it, how will they anfwer it! Do they make
Sir Huhard Barker, a Perlbn of no value? do they fo little efteem the
Miniller that fays, I knew him though he was in dilguile; And went
andfaid it prefbitly to a Woman, that he knew was acquainted with
Gates. And asking her, when flie law Mr. Gates ? and (he layings not i
great while ; he laid, Ifaw him later than you; and lays, he did know
him; And this is confirm d ftill by Sit Richard Barker, who tells you, that
his men told him, that he had been there. What fiiould make them
to acquaint their Mafter lb, if it were not lb? Or do you think it is a
thing malicioufly prepared or invented to take away the lives of thefe
men, that his men Ihould tell him a Story fo long ago ? If it be not
true, to what purpoie Ihould they tell him fo? and if it be true, it
confirms the matter fworn againfi: them.i
There is he, that was his companion, the School-Mafter, that fays, in
the beginning of was Twelveth Month, Mr. Gates diiled with hini
at his Houle, fate with him Four Hours, diicourfed of his Travels into
Spam and Saint Gmers : And there is the man that is a Papi/i, if not
a Priefk, that fwears he faw him Twice, about the middle of Jpr//, at
Mr. Charles Howards Lodgings in Arundel Houle; lb that here are leveii
WitnelTes dired or circumftantial, to prove Mr. Gates to have beeri
in London, in April and May 78. . ,
But lay they. This is but and Swearing. Very fine / Ahd the
Saint Omers Youths is Talking, but not Swearing. Ay! but then their
Numbers not lb many. That Gentlemen, I leave to you, fqf botli
cannot be true. The Teftimony of Mr. Gates, and the wtnelfeS that
he had to back himfeif withal, and to prove llimleif to be here, is in-
confiftent with what the young men lay, that he was at Saint G-
mers.
Now if you oblerve. All thele mens Defence is in the Circumftan-
tiaTPart of the Evidence, in watching and catching at what day, what
hour, and what month, how Mr. Gates reckoned falft, lb and lb: If
he came here about the Twentieth of April, how could they lee him
the firft of May ? And they think then, they have got luch a mighty
Vidory, but it is not lb weighty an argument which Protestants after
all their conceit, that it is unanlwerable ; For here is the point. The
matter of time is a thing that no man can fb precilely charge his me-
mory with, as that it Ihould be too ftridly the meafure of yoursjudg-
ments about truth or tallhood, by the miftake of Seven or Eight days.
Examine your felves, how often every day you do miftake things that
have been Tranladed half a Year ago, and err in point of time^ taking
one Week for another, and one Month for another; and though I
muft lay, it is confiderable, yet too great weight is not to be laid up-
on that.
As for that they infift upon lb much, the coining oVer of Sir Tho-
was Preflon and Sir "john Warner with Mr. Gates ; It is true, Three or
FourWitnelfes lpeak,as to Sir ^ohn warner, and Ibme to Sir Thomas Prefion;
and they lay, they were both beyond Sea when Mr. Gates came over;
but if the Sixteen be not to be believed in the firft matter, and if Mr.
Gates does lay true, notwithftanding all their Evidenee, that he was
B b a here
(9^)
here fuch a time in Jfril and May., Then Tie tell you what Inference
may naturally be; to wit, That they can't want a Witnels to prove
what theypleaie: For I believe there is none of them all will make
any bones of it.
I lay (Gentlemen) if you are latisfied in your Confciences, that the
Evidence on Mr. Oatts his part to that point (that is to lay, feven Wit-
nelfes) ought to prevail with you, to believe he was here in thole Months
(notwithftanding the Sixteen WitnelTes, who fay they faw him eve-
ry day beyond Sea in April and Alay'), Their other Evidence about his
coming over with Prejion and warmr, will have no great weight ; be-
caufe the other is the great matter, by which they make the fubslame
of their defence.
I am glad indeed to lee a Gentleman here whole Face I never law
before, and that is Mr. Dugdak. Upon my word he hathelcaped well,
for I find little laid again!! him, very little either as to the matter or
the manner of his Evidence. They would have made reflection on
him for his Poverty, but I hope that they whole Religion is to vow
Poverty, will never infiit on that for any great ObjeCtion againft
any.
L. c. J. North. Your Lordlliip hath forgot that he laid he gave a-
way Three or Four Hundred Pounds to them.
L. C. J. But I will Challenge all the Papifis in England, to fetisfy
any Man that hears me this day of one peice of Evidence, which will
turn every Protefiants heart again!! the Papish. If lb be, they Murde^
red Sir Edmmd-Bury-Godfrty, the Plot even by that is in a great mea-
fure proved upon them, by that bafe Murder. And what can be a
plainer proof of it, than the Evidence of this- day, which Mr. Dugdde
produces? We had notise (laith he)on Monday night, that ontheSa-
turday before it,' ir Edm. Godfrey was kill'd (which falls out to be that very
Saturday he was firlt miffing) ; which notice was given in a letter writ
hy Harcourt to Evers, another Prie!!, that lame Saturday night, wherein
were thele words. This Night is dfpatched-^ &
I am lure if this be true, tihen no man can. fay but they Murdered him.
whitehread, It is not alleadged again!! any of Us.
L. C. J. It is- an Evidence of the Plot in general, and to Harcourt in
particular.
Harcourt, He never fhews the Letter that he lays I writ.
L. C. J. He lays, that he ufed toPerule the Letters, , and that Everf
had this again, after he had Perufed it; He lays alio, he has recei-
ved at times a Hundred Letters from you, and this among the refl:.
Now die Queftiori is, whether it be true or no? To make it out,
he produces Mr. chftaynd, whom I hope you will not deny to be a
Gentleman of one of the be!! Family of his Country, and ofhoneftReputa-
tion, who feys, that on theTueiday following that Saturday Sir Edmund-
Bury-Gcdfrey was mi!!, he and another were talking together m Staf-
fordfhire., and that the other Perlbn asked him if he knew of the Death
of any Juftice of the Peace at iveflminFkr, and when he told him, he
had heard of no fiicli thing; No faid he, that is ffrange, you living
Ibmetimcs about wefiminjler ; for laid he, the Wench at the Aledioule
layes, That this Morning Mr. Dugdale laid,, to two other Gentlemen,
riiere w^as a Juftice of Peace of Weftminfttr, Kill'd; and Mr. D igdde
fwearSj That was Sir Edmundhury Godfrey. Now,- if Dugdak be fit to
(93^
be believed, that hefaw fuch a Letter, as he muft be if he be not a very
great Prophet, to be able to fore-tel this: Or if the Maid that laid this, did
not invent it (A thing then impoffible to be done); Or Mx.chetivynd
feigned, that he heard the Man make his Report from the Maid;
This thing could not come to pafs, but by thele Men. Nay, if Mr.D-^^-
dile could not do as great a Miracle as any are in the Popifh Legends^
How could he tell, that it was done on the lame Night when it was
done at London ? Or fpeak of it, on the Monday-'Hi^t after, when it
was not known in London till the Thtirfday following? This willftick,
I alTure you (Sirs) upon all your Party-
For my own part, this Evidence of Mr. Dugdales gives me the
greateft latisfaflion of any thing in the world in this matter ; and
whiift we reft fatisfied in the Murder of that Man, and are morally
certain you muft do it, knowing of what Principles you are, you
cannot blame us, if upon luch manifeft Realbns we lay it upon you.
And this is Occafional Evidence, which I for my part never heard
before this day ; nor can I ever be more, or better fatisfied, than I am
upon this Point, 'viz. The Teftimony that I have received this After-
noon concerning the Murder of Siw Edmmdberry Godfrey. As to the De-
fences they have made, they are Exceptions in point of time, but do
not affefl: Mr. Dugdde ; for they have hardly the Confidence to' deny
the Things he layes to be True againft them.
They fall Foul indeed upon Mr. Outs: He appears to have been their
Agent; and whiift lb, bad enough: But if he had not had a mind to
have become a Good Man, he would not likely have done us that
Good that he hath done, in Difcovering the Dcfigne you had engaged
him in. Let any man Judge, by your Principles and Pra£l:ices, what
you will not do, for the promoting of the lame.
For while this Gentlemans Blood lies upon you (and Ibme have been
Executed for itj, it muft be yet farther told you, that in what you
Lid do, you have given us a ffecimen cf what you Would do. We
have a Teftimony, that for Promoting your Caufe, you would not
ftick at the Proteftants Blood. You Began with Sir Edmondberry God-
frey, but who knows where you would have made an End! It was this
one Man you KillM in his Perfqn, but in Effigk the Whole Nation.
It was in one Mans Blood your Hands are Embremd ; but your Souls
were Dipt in the Blood of us all. This was a Handlel only of what
was to follow; and fo long as we are convinced you Killd him, we
cannot but believe, you. would alio Kill'the King. We cannot but
believe, you would make All of Us away, that ftand in the way of
your Religion: A Religion, which according to what it is, you would
bring in upon us; by a Converfwn of us with Blood ; and by a Baptifm
with Fire. God keep our Land from the one, and our City from the other!
To return. The Letter that is found in Harcourt'^ Papers, does fur-
ther confirm Mr. Oats m all the great and confiderable Matters that he
layes; That there was a Blot., That that Blot was called by the Name
of a DESIGNE, which was to be kept Clofe and Secret: And this
is an Evidence that cannot Lye. For that Letter will never be got off,
no more than the other Letter, that Mr. Dugdale Ipeaks of about Sir
Edmundbury Godfrey.
And thus I leave it to you, Gentlemen: You have heard how
many Witneffes they have had for them, about Twenty-Four or
€ G Twenty-
( 94)
Twenty-Five of one fort or ancM:her. You have heard what they ap-
piy their Teftimony unto, to Convifl; Mr. Oats of Falfhood in matter
of Time, which was their principal Defence; That he was not here in
y4pril and May^ and that he came not over with Sir Thomas Prejiony
and Sir John ivarnery and that Ireland was not here all Augujl. You
have heard what Witnelfes Oats is back'd withal, as to the Time of
of his being here; and the Maid lays, fhe law Ireland here m August.
However, though their Defence depends but upon a point of Time:
I muft tell you, it ought to be well confidered, for 'tis indeed very
confiderable towards their Defence; and God forbid but we Ihould be
equal to all men.
And fo I have Remembred, as well as I can, in this long and per-
plexed Evidence, that which foems to me moft Material as to their
Charge or Difoharge; and that which they have made their greateft
Defence by the Youths from St. Omers to dilprove Mr. Oats his being
here, and Mr. Irelands not being in London in AuguJt, which in Truth
is not the proper bulineis of this Day; but hath received a former
Verdict before : for if fo be the Jury before had not been fatisfied of
the Truth of that, they could never have found Ireland Guilty. So I
leave it to yoia upon the whole matter. I can remember nothing be-
fides. Go together, and confider of your VerdiCt, according to your
Evidence.
Lord chief juji. North. Gentlemen! My Lord hath Repeated it lb
fully to you, that I fhall not need to adde any thing to it.
Then dts officer rvits Smrn to keep the Jury, who withdrew j
and the Judges aljb went off from the Bench, leaving
Mr. Recorder, and a competent number of Commif-
fners there to take the FerdiB • and "aboMt the fpact of
a quarter of an Hour, the Jury returned, and Any
wered to their Names, and gave in their Ferdtci
thus,
clerk of Crown. Gentlemen, Are you all Agreed of your Verdid?
Omnes. Yes.
cl. of Crown. Who fhall lay for you ?
Omnes. Foreman.
cl. of Cr. ihomas white^ alias, whitebread, hold up thy Hand. You
of the Jury, look upon the Prilbner*. How lay you? Is he Guilty of
the High-Trealbn whereof he hands Indiftedj or Not Guilty?
Foremani Guilty.
cl. 6f Cr. What Goods or Chattels ?
. Foreman. None to our Knowledge: Alnd fo fever ally of the Refi.
which Ferdici being Recorded in uftd Form, Mr. Recorder /poke to
the Jury thus:
Mr. Recorder. Gentlemen, You of the Jury ; There hath been a long
Evidence given againh the Prilbners at the Bar. They were all IndiCt-
ed, Arrainged, fairly Tryed, and fully Heard, for High-Treafon, de-
pending
(95 >
pending upon leveral Circurnftances. They can none of tliem pre-,
tend to fay, (and I take the Liberty^oltake riotiee of it, for the la-
tisfaftion of them, and ail that are he^ pyeient, and all the World)
That not a Perfon among the Prifonerf at the Bar, were either want-
ing to themfelves to Offer, or the Court to them, to Hear any thing
that they could fay for themfelves. But, upon a long Evidence, a full
Diicuffing the Objefl;ions made againft it, and a Patient Hiring of
the Defence they made, they are found Guilty t And I do think, that
every Honeft Man will fay. That they are unexceptionably found fo;
and that 'tis a Juft Verdid you have given.
f
And then the Prifbners wefe carryed back to Newgate, and the
Court Adjourned till Eight next Morning. And then Mr- LmghcfrA^
was Tryed,& found Guilty: After which, they were all Six broughf
to the Bar together, & received Judgment to be Drawn, Hanged^ &
Quartered: Which accordingly was done upon the Five jefutts
and Priefts; on Frydajf the Twentyeth of June^ at the Uftial PlkC#
of Execution.
FINIS.
AdVertilerfent.
^/!R. Recorder's Sf each he fire Judgment^ wiU hi
^ TMiped at th's End of Mr, LangiicfrnV Trf-
all; which is noi^ in the Prefs-y and will jfeeiily
cofne foYtb,
E R R A T A.
pAgc 25. Line 18. for ProtefiantSy read Epifcopal Party.