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HOUSE No. 201.
. < L_
: — '
Petition of fhe Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and
Western Railroad Company.
CLOSING ARGUMENT
of
Gen. WILLIAM L. BURT,
before t1ie
JOINT SPECIAL COMMITTEE OF THE LEGISLATURE ON THE HOOSAC
TUNNEL AND TROY & GREENFIELD RAILROAD,
together with the
TESTIMONY OF G. R. BLAN CHARD,
Assistant Receiver of the Erie Railway.
March, 1877
BOSTON:
HE
ALBERT J. WRIGHT, STATE PRINTER,
7 7 I 79 Milk Street (corner of Federal).
jm*-
1877.
HOUSE
No. 201.
Petition of tiie Boston, Hoosac Tnnnel and
Western Railroad Company.
CLOSING ARGUMENT
of
Gen. WILLIAM L. BURT,
11
before the
JOINT SPECIAL COMMITTEE OF THE LEGISLATURE ON THE HOOSAC
TUNNEL AND TROY & GREENFIELD RAILROAD,
together with the
G
i t 43 41
TESTIMONY OF G'f R. BLANCHARD,
Assistant Receiver of the Erie Railway.
March, 1877.
BOSTON:
ALBERT J. WRIGHT, STATE PRINTER,
79 Milk Street (corner of Federal).
1877.
H E in I
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ARGUMENT.
If the gentlemen who compose the Committee will allow me one
suggestion before I commence the matter of our own application,
in reply to the position of Mr. Gooch, who represents the interest
the Troy & Greenfield Railroad claims to have to redeem the Tunnel,
I shall say now all I propose to say on that point, and it will then
be out of the way.
Right to Redeem from the State.
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, several years ago, under¬
took to complete this railroad and Tunnel, because the enterprise,
as they regarded it, was too large, too immense in its expenditure,
to be carried forward by. any corporation or individuals. They
found, as they thought, that the advances by the loans of the Com¬
monwealth that were being made, so far from completing the Tun¬
nel, would simply lead to this result: that this loan, having been
expended, there would then be another loan required, and they
themselves, having the bottom mortgage, would either be obliged to
have the work relinquished entirely, or make an additional loan.
They concluded to make an additional loan, but not to allow it to
be expended by the corporation. They took a conveyance from all
parties in interest distinctly, as mortgagees in possession, and for
the purpose of completing the Tunnel and not for any breach of
condition. The previous mortgage, which had been three times
renewed,—for this mortgage, gentlemen, was first executed to the
Commonwealth in 1855, and it has been executed to the Common¬
wealth four times,—that same mortgage covered all their property,
real and personal, and all right over and over again. I shall have
occasion to refer to that again, incidentally. Under that possession
/md under this condition of things, the State, in possession for the
purpose of completing the Tunnel, has now completed the Tunnel
and road.
20
154
TIIE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
But by the same Acts of the Legislature the Commonwealth
reserved to this corporation the right in equity, at any time within
ten years after the Tunnel was completed, to go to the Supreme
Court and have all questions of amounts, have all questions of equi¬
ties and legal rights, adjudicated. They could and can bring into
court all parties, including the Commonwealth. I suppose that
none of the gentlemen sitting at this table know the fact, that when
the examination of the original vouchers for expenditures of the
first loan was made, it was found that Mr. Haupt, instead of repre¬
senting merely a contractor's interest, owned three-quarters of the
stock of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad, and owned the Southern
Vermont Railroad absolutely, and was the whole corporation in
both States. He was receiving as contractor all the advances the
State was making for the Tunnel, and when the corporations and
Mr. Haupt and all released, it was supposed that the State had
dealt with all parties in interest in fact and in equity.
They provided, furthermore, that Mr. Haupt himself should have a
right to come as an injured party and apply for redress, which he did
subsequently, and thus it was supposed that all parties were provided
for. Now, they claim they are not, and claim a right to redeem.
Now, a proceeding in the Supreme Court, under the law, is the only
proceeding that will bind all parties. When Mr. Haupt, with the
parties that he then represented, are brought into court, you can
control them. He would not be bound by any " Resolves" or
" Laws " or " Acts " you might pass, or anything you might enact,
or by anything you might do. Neither would any one concerned in
that railroad, in any manner-or shape, no matter how worthy or
unworthy their claim might be. But there is one tribunal that has
ample power to compel the appearance of parties, the attendance of
witnesses, and can discover and determine the facts. They may be
shrouded in fraud, or concealed for purposes of profit,—reaching
them all, probing the conscience of every man who appears asking
for redress, and, standing for the Commonwealth as her own court,
with ample jurisdiction and in simple justice, they will enter a
decree that will bind all parties ; the}7 can make a decision we Iskall
all be obliged to accept. This all will accept as just and right,
whether it is satisfactory, or as we expected it to be, or not. That
has been my feeling from the first; and when I have seen, at differ¬
ent times, attempts made to bring the question here before the Com¬
mittee and before the Legislature as an objection (because it comes
in that form), not only to the enterprise which I represent, but to
any possible use of this Tunnel and the Troy & Greenfield—and as
a means of tying up this Tunnel, so that the State, even in making
contracts for its use, cannot charge what it ought, but is to charge,
1877.] HOUSE—No. 201. 155
I
as a mortgagee in possession,—when, I say, I have seen these
attempts, I have felt that if this question was to be raised at all, it
should be raised, not in the Legislature, where they can come year
after year if and as long as they are dissatisfied, but in a court hav¬
ing ample jurisdiction and full power to dispose of it.
t
How came this before the Committee ?
Now, do you think this matter is at all open to this Committee ?
If they could come here, why does not the Commonwealth direct the
attorney-general to appear here, rather tjian to go down-stairs and
listen to and resist the claim of Mr. Shanly for additional compen¬
sation for work done on the Tunnel ? If you allow them to come
before you in this way, claiming to have the Tro}7- & Greenfield
Railroad and the Hoosac Tunnel in their pockets, claiming to be
the absolute owners of that property, costing $17,000,000, without
requesting the attorney-general to appear here to protect the inter¬
ests of the State, it looks like almost complicity with a fraud. It
is absolutely impossible that you- can act in such a condition of
things. It would be absurd to expect it, and they do not expect it.
Direct the Attorney-General to bring a Bill.
Let a Resolve be passed directing the attorney-general, in behalf
of the Commonwealth, to commence at once before the Supreme
Judicial Court an equity suit to determine the rights and equities of
all parties to the Troy & Greenfield Railroad and Hoosac Tunnel,
and the amount and the terms upon which the Troy & Greenfield
Railroad Company are entitled to redeem. It is not only an
important question, but a dangerous one. They claim to redeem
by paying the $2,000,000, but the sinking fund of the Hoosac Tun¬
nel is already over $3,000,000. Shall the State give them the
Tunnel and the $1,000,000 beside?
Boston, Hoosac Tunnel & Western Railway.
Ntow, we will, if you please, come to the more immediate matter
of the Boston, Hoosac Tunnel & Western Railway. Now, what do
we ask? These petitioners have come before you with many disad¬
vantages (with all deference to the Committee), I must insist upon
it, with not many advantages for a fair, profitable, and impartial
hearing. You were exhausted by the long preceding hearing on
Mr. Crane's petition. When I opened our case here, I was told by
you at the outset that these petitioners represented an evident and
admitted want. That nobody disputed, and it was not desired that
we should introduce testimony. It was not desired that we should
appear here to show, by either oral or record testimony, at length,
156 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
the imperative demands of Boston and Massachusetts for a through,
independent competing line to the West under the control and in
the interest of our State; and yet, after putting in our case in a
day and a half, for a full week I have sat here, and you have sat
here, and we have heard from one corporation after another, from
all the interests that have been represented here, whether it was the
Poughkeepsie Bridge, or the New Albany Bridge, or the Troy
Bridge, or the New York & New England Railroad, or the Fitch-
burg Railroad, or the Troy & Boston Railroad, or the Vermont &
Massachusetts Railroad, or the pretended lessees of the Southern
Vermont Railroad, no matter who it was, even to the possibility of a
railroad in the shape of the Massachusetts Central, something that
may some time be a railroad,—this "estate in Oxpectanc}^" of a
railroad,—we have heard from them all the absolute, positive assur¬
ance that we of Boston have got all that is wanted. Did they not
all tell you so ?
The Iloosac Tunnel Car Line sufficient.
You have been told, have you not, that we have a " car line," a
" freight line," that will be developed so as to meet every possible
usefulness of the Tunnel, and want and need of the State of Mas¬
sachusetts through the Tunnel. Two thousand freight cars, costing,
on an average, $500 apiece, pooled in by the New York Central
and their alliances, represent, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the
Committee, the entire expectations and perfect realization of my
brother on the other side who appears here for the Fitchburg
Railroad. One million dollars worth of rolling stock that might
be switched off on to the tracks of the Boston & Albany or of
any other road, and kept there on six months' notice (and there
would be no redress), represents this great " Hoosac Tunnel Line,"
for which Massachusetts has spent $17,000,000, and kept the
Legislature in session for more hours and days, for more weeks
and months, than any other single object for the last 15 or 20
years, and for which one-third of all the taxes of the State are
£
levied' to-day. Now, I do not believe it. I know you do not
believe it. I know it is put forward here merely as a blind, a
shield, to ward off our demand, and what we are determined Boston
shall have.
Mr. Torrey. I do not want to interrupt you, and I would not, if
you were not very far out of the way. You have only got it one-
tenth what they claim is the possibility *of this new line. The
evidence was, that next year they expect to carry 1,000,000 tons of
freight.
Mr. Burt. They said, gentlemen, that this line had 1,800 cars.
1877.]
/
HOUSE—No. 201. 157
The witness said that they intended to increase the number to 2,000.
Taking the 2,000 cars, I said they would cost $1,000,000, at an
average of $500 a piece, and that was the entire and absolute
investment of the Fitchburg Railroad, and all these twenty lines
together, in what is called the " Hoosac Tunnel Line," and I said that
they employed counsel, and they came here to represent that. I
was going to add something which I think will relieve my brother's
feelings. I know he don't believe it. Anybody connected with the
Fitchburg Railroad would be ashamed to have you believe that that
was the extent of the capacity of that road to do business, and
meet the wants of the public through the Tunnel, which they expect,
and reasonably expect, should be provided for. That was done at
the dictation of the New York Central Railroad. It was done to
have you understand that the New York Central Railroad and their
arrangements did not prevent freight from coming through the
Tunnel, and you would get " ever so much of it" one of these days.
The New York Central Railroad can deprive the Troy & Boston
Railroad absolutely of every pound of freight, and the Troy &
Boston, in their turn, can deprive the Tunnel of every pound of
freight and of every passenger, just as she is depriving it of a
through line of cars to-day, and you have no redress. The testi¬
mony is unqualified, unanswered and unexplained, and none of the
counsel who have appeared here have attempted to explain it.
What Vanderbilt demanded.
Mr. Stearns, whose management has been wise, thoughtful and
prudent, relatively, when dealing with the Commonwealth, went to
New York and told Mr. Vanderbilt, " You cannot have those cars
excluded from running over the Fitchburg Railroad. "While we are
part of the Hoosac Tunnel line, the Commonwealth of Massachu¬
setts comes in between, and if you had an exclusive contract over
our road, you never could hold it through that Tunnel." Mr. Van¬
derbilt is not the most unwise man in the world, and he quietly goes
to my friend of the Troy & Boston Railroad, who always comes
to Boston when the Tunnel is to be looked' after, and says, " You
have got an offer from Pullman & Dixon for a through line to
Boston, haven't you? " " Yes, sir." " Well, you cannot run their
cars over the New York Central road, you know, Mr. Robinson?"
"Yes, sir; I know that." "I want you to say to Mr, Pullman,
4 You cannot run your cars over the Troy & Boston Railroad and
so you cannot get them to the Tunnel.' That disposes of that mat¬
ter. Now, I want you to contract exclusively with Mr. Wagner for
his line, in which we are interested in this way: Mr. Wagner runs
cars over my road, you understand, Mr. Robinson?" Mr. Robin-
158 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
son understands it, and they sit down in Mr. Stearns' office and
make an exclusive permanent contract (while other railroads are
there waiting for an answer) for the running of the Wagner cars,
which have the exclusive right over the New York Central Railroad.
Thus, without Mr. Stearns' help, the Troy & Boston Railroad have
excluded from Boston all other cars that stand ready to come.
Now, if such things as these are the result of the visits of our friend
of the Troy & Boston Railroad to Boston, I pray that he may
not come often ! The State of Massachusetts has spent too much
money on this Tunnel to permit such things. She stands to-day
with an indebtedness of a hundred millions, including all debts of
her cities and towns, and seventeen millions of this entire indebted¬
ness of the Commonwealth is in the Hoosac Tunnel. We are pay¬
ing our taxes for it to-day. The interest on this Tunnel annually is
more than the entire net earnings of the Boston & Albany Railroad
for all the freight they carry on their entire railroad annually.
The Troy & Boston Railroad asked to join.
It was in view of such fact that I went personally, as Mr. Robin¬
son will tell you, last spring, to him, and said to him, "The busi¬
ness men of Boston desire an independent through line to the West.
Will you and your railroad join us? Will you act with us? Will
you help make, what you have always promised indirectly and
directly that you would ? " Of course he wouldn't. Why ? Be¬
cause he could not! Right over his back stood the New York
Central Railroad that furnished every ton of his freight. He was
in a combination with them, in which they owned one-half and he
owned one-quarter. He was under an agreement with them, by
which he went out on their tracks to the West and out on their
tracks to the South, and he could not do it; and he wants you and
the State of Massachusetts to sink into the arms of the same alli¬
ance, does he?
An " inchoate State."
He comes to this Committee and asks them to refuse these
Boston men because they are a New York corporation,—God save
the mark!—an "inchoate" corporation, he says. That is one of
the things that I did not understand. He explained it, as he
thought, by saying that it was in an "inchoate" state. What
state under heavens that is, whether it is the state that the Troy &
Boston are in with reference to the New York Central road, or the
Massachusetts Central, or some other road, I do not know. But I
beg my friends to believe, and I beg this Committee to believe, that
whatever state it is in, it is in the best interest of and in loyal alle-
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
159
giance to the State of Massachusetts. I have no enmity to the
Troy & Boston Railroad. Like all railroads and all corporations,
it serves those who control it, and so does the " Hoosac Tunnel Car
Line."
We Ask Nothing New.
Now, gentlemen, the Fitchburg Railroad and the Tro}" & Boston
Railroad have been here before. Your memories are only of to-day,
and reaching back to Mr. Crane's hearing. But the memories of
this State House are long and also prolific. I am going to ask your
pardon while I read a few passages to show you the position that
the Fitchburg Railroad have heretofore taken in regard to this same
matter of a through independent competing line to the West. And
I want to say, before reading them, that these petitioners whom I
represent have come here following exactly in the course which the
Fitchburg Railroad Company have marked out. We have come
here doing exactly what the incorporators of the Hoosac Tunnel in
1875 proposed to have done, with this single and only exception.
We propose to do what they did and as they did, save that we pro¬
pose to do it with .private capital, to do it ourselves, as a business
enterprise, and not at the expense of the State.
i
Memories of the Troy & Boston Railroad.
The Fitchburg Railroad were brought here in 1873, on the petition
of the Troy & Boston Railroad, which I suppose then may have
been in an " inchoate state," because I perceive by the petition
they presented that they fell into very many of the obnoxious con¬
ditions that they accuse us of being in to-day. They came here and
asked for a consolidated line from Troy to Boston. That is about
what we have got to-day by the Hoosac Tunnel freight line. When
they asked for it, the same worthy counsel who is sitting here and
finding fault with our bill, proposed a bill, his "little bill," and I want
to show you what he proposed to do. He is the gentleman who
raised the question in regard to the " confiscation " (as my friend
calls it) of their road ; the confiscation of the property that has cost
them so 'much. This Troy & Boston road, as I shall show to you
by the testimony of Mr. Stearns, who was then president of this
Fitchburg Railroad, and was bitterly opposing his present allies and
friends of the Troy & Boston Railroad, stated that road was in so
dilapidated and infirm condition, that it did not own as much
property as its debts ought to represent. Its real value amounted
to less than nothing. But it had " great expectations," which Mr.
Stearns did not propose to increase by having it added to the Fitch¬
burg Railroad. In that, I can sympathize with him very well; and
v
160
THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE.
[Mar.
our poor corporation, " inchoate" as it is, does not want any such
alliance. I am willing my friend should have his 34 miles of road,
with his $3,700,000 of capital, if he wants it. I have no objection
to it. It could not be better applied than by putting it where it is,
he thinks, and if he keeps it and uses it in the interest of Troy, and
not to the detriment of Boston, and not to the detriment of our
own people, I shall not care.
Troy & Boston Railroad Finances.
As I am referring to this document (Reports of the Hearings of
1873), I will refer to it now for a quotation from the returns of the
Troy & Boston Railroad. As long ago as 1873, they had paid in
about $1,500,000, and had a debt of $2,032,000. After going over
their statement, it comes to this beautiful sum-total. They had
created a debt of $3,631,000, of which $1,241,630.37 was returned
to the State of New York under the head of " unaccounted for."
This is the railroad we are proposing to " steal"! Now, if my
friend thinks that we propose to steal that road, I beg him to go
home, even if he should have to leave before I close my remarks,
with the most entire, blissful, and childlike trust and confidence,
that we shall not. Now, let me show you how this Troy & Boston,
came here in 1873.
Troy & Boston Railroad " Little Bill."
Here is their " little bill," and my brother, whose virtuous in¬
dignation is aroused against us because we propose to do his
vigorous and wealthy corporation so much harm, put in this
provision : " If the Fitchburg Railroad Company neglects or
refuses"—I should not wonder if I got some of the language of
my bill out of this—" to pass said vote to unite and consolidate
the said companies with each other and with the Commonwealth,
as aforesaid," then what? This road is "authorized to extend its
railroad from a convenient point at or near the present terminus of
the line of the Vermont & Massachusetts Railroad, in Fitchburg,
by some direct and feasible route, to said terminal depot in Boston."
This .was to be done by a New York corporation.
And did he not tell you they were going to give everybody an
equal and "fair chance" over this beautiful road? Let me read
this section:—
" Sect. 17. The said consolidated corporation shall not receive from
passengers or freight, to and from other connecting railroads, greater
rates for passing through the tunnel than in proportion to the extra cost
of the tunnel over and above ordinary railroad construction."
1877.] HOUSE—No. 201. 161
* '
I think you will all agree that that would have let a great deal of
freight through the Tunnel!! All the business that came over the
road, the Fitchburg Railroad was to furnish terminal facilities for
and at a pro rata, and then the Tunnel part of the line, being four
miles, was to be charged for as much as it would cost to; build
a single-track road from Boston to Albany—200 miles. This is
worse for traffic than the grades of the Erie Railway, worse than
the grade even of the Troy & Boston, or those of the Delaware &
Hudson, which my brother suggested as being insuperable obsta¬
cles to a business line through the Tunnel.
Fitchburg Railroad Opposed It.
This Troy & Boston Railroad, the Fitchburg Railroad looked ■
upon as a countryman would a ghost. They shut their doors
against it, as my friend Stone would against a " roaring lion" that
wanted to come into the Massachusetts Central Railroad lobby.
The Fitchburg Railroad, gentlemen, much to their credit, I was
going to say,—but no, it did not amount to anything more than
ordinary sagacity,—opposed it; and I will show you why they op¬
posed it. And in that my brother will join me, for it is very inter¬
esting. They opposed the Troy & Boston Railroad and my friend
Mr. Allen's bill, because they were expecting just such a corporation
as we now offer.
Prophecy and Fulfilment.
They were looking for it as something that was promised, and
something that was sure to come. When you look into it, you will
find that if ever prophecy, placed in the mouth of counsel three
years ago, was fulfilment by actual fact to-day, and promises became
realization, it is in the bill we have brought here to-day in fulfil¬
ment of the prophecy and realization of the promises of the counsel
of the Fitchburg road. Mr. Derby says these things in behalf of
the Fitchburg Railroad. I read from the twentieth page of the
third hearing before the committee on railways on the Hoosac Tun¬
nel Consolidation in 1873 :—
" Mr. Derby. I represent the Fitchburg road, who wish to be heard at
some stage of the hearing.
" The Chairman. We will hear you now.
" Mr. Derby. I have the honor to appear here to-day in behalf of the
Fitchburg road, and advocate consolidation upon a larger scale and more
comprehensive plan, and point out the deficiencies of the plan already
presented. . . .
" I would first deal with the suggestions which were made here by
Mr. Allen, and I take the ground that the State of Massachusetts, as well
21
162 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
as the Fitchburg and Vermont & Massachusetts railroad companies are
as free as air [whore are those contracts now?], so far as any arrange¬
ment to terminate this road at Troy has been made. There are no
agreements leading to that, except such as have either been set aside by
the course of events, or such as do not bind either the State or the rail¬
road companies to which I have referred."
We get a Recorded Opinion of the Fitchburg Railroad.
Now, Mr. Derby is a very conservative man, and the Fitchburg
Railroad is a very conservative corporation, and if you get him and
get that corporation committed to such an important opinion as
that, I think we can stand safely. I know we shall before I finish
reading this.
" At the time when this road, the Troy & Boston, was established, Troy
was considered to be one of the objective points, because the canal ter¬
minated there, and carried two-thirds or three-quarters of the freight
which came through the State of New York.
" The Erie Canal was the great avenue of trade; the railroads of the
State were almost a sealed book; but now that is all changed. Lumber
and corn remain upon the canal; but all the valuable freight, such as
seeks the railroads, is carried by the New York Central and the Erie
railroads. The canal has come to be a mere dragger, a carrier of coarse
freight, and remains as it was twenty years ago, or with very slight
increase. So that now the objective point is not Troy, to meet the canal
but it is to meet the railroads, which are carrying some ten millions of
tons across New York. That is one great thing. Then there was no
bridge at Albany, and Troy was looked to because there was a bridge at
that point.
" I come now to my third point, which is this: That there was at that
time a survey for a railroad from the Eagle Bridge, upon the Troy &
Boston road to Saratoga. We were looking westerly and northerly to
the vast traffic upon the St. Lawrence and upon Lake Ontario, and Sack-
ettfs Harbor, which, during the last war, grew up to be a great part of
the country, is delineated upon the map by Mr. Edwards in his report,
which I shall bring here and put into the case before your sessions close,
as the terminal point. Therefore, not having bound ourselves to Troy,
having said we were going towards the lakes, and the lakes and the
canals having changed their relative positions, there are strong reasons
why we should make the objective point upon the lakes."
Short Memory of the Fitchburg Railroad.
In three years the Fitchburg Railroad forget all this. When we
come and propose to make Lake Ontario an objective point, they
wonder how it is that the Troy & Boston Railroad, or the Hoosac
Tunnel line, with its two thousand freight cars, do not satisfy the crav¬
ing wants of the people of Massachusetts, and answer the promises
that have been so liberally made. They forget that Lake Ontario is
1877.] * HOUSE—No. 201.
163
still in existence ; its millions of tons of transportation are not worth
a farthing in their estimates, after our Tunnel is finished ! But it
grows stronger as we go forward :—
" Another reason for this has sprung up. At that time, when we located,
most of the railroads chartered in the State of New York were Boston
railroads. The Rochester road, I think, originated in Boston. The
Utica & Schenectady and the Buffalo roads were aided by Boston. Some
of our largest capitalists, Mr. Wild, Mr. Thayer and many others, were
largely interested in them, and their transfer offices were here. But in a
little while these roads ceased to be Boston roads and became New York
roads. They were consolidated, and finally the whole line from Buffalo
to New York became a New York enterprise, known as the New York
Central & Hudson River Railroad. We were no longer looking to
friends but to foes, competing for the trade of the West with our Boston
roads by lines beginning at Lake Erie and Troy, and terminating at the
city of New York, and if we came to Troy we were coming into connec¬
tion with them; we were coming there to unite not with a Boston but a
New York line, which had been watered to the extent of 80 per cent.; "
[think of that from the Fitchburg Railroad thrown into the face of their
present friends !] " we were placing ourselves and the State of Massa¬
chusetts in a state of dependence upon Mr. Vanderbilt who watered the
stock. All these, gentlemen, seem to me to be reasons why we are pre¬
cluded from consolidating the Troy & Boston road with this line. We
must look to the interests of Massachusetts, rather than to the interests of
New York."
Codicil to the Will of the Fitchburg Railroad.
You have seen in an old farce, perhaps, the expression, " What a
beautiful thing a codicil is," where one gentleman having had a
large estate left him alone by will, a poor fellow being left out
entirely, finds by mere accident, through his attorney, that the
deceased had made a codicil, and the codicil left the whole estate
to him. I must say, that the rejoicing of that man, as it appears
in the farce, when he exclaims " what a beautiful thing a codicil is,"
is no greater than ours, when we find this codicil to my learned
brother's representation of the will of the Fitchburg Railroad. It
is just exactly what we expected from the testator, in this case. We
knew he was going to take care of us. He had promised us, and we
could not think he was going to cut us off just as we were ready to
receive his favors. He had just aided the State to spend her money
on the Tunnel; it was finished, and we could not believe that he
would cut us off and leave us with all the provisions he had made
unfulfilled.
Mr. Derby goes on, page after page, to speak of this terrible Troy
& Boston Railroad. He tells you how much capital they have got,
how much debt, and how little road; and tells how unfortunate
164
THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
even a through line, or any line would be that should join with them.
He would have thought still worse of the farce of a " car freight line."
Then he says :—
" These are the objections on our part to having this road which came
forward here without any adequate capital, within eighteen months, and
proposed to purchase the tunnel, either for itself or for some one who
stands behind it."
I thought we were the men who were going to steal the Tunnel.
I did not suppose that it was the Tro}r & Boston that had tried to
do it three years ago, but you see they did. The Fitchburg Rail¬
road is the one that says so.
Now, our friend Judge Thomas was at this hearing, and he
says:—
" I understand that the Fitchburg Railroad is opposed to any consolida¬
tion with the Troy & Boston.
" Mr. Derby. I prefer to have the consolidation made with Massa¬
chusetts roads, and then to lease or make arrangements with the Troy &
Boston road. We are opposed to making the Troy & Boston road the
basis of consolidation under these circumstances.
" Judge Thomas. You are opposed to consolidating with that road P
" Mr. Derby. My preference is to have that road, rather than consol¬
idating with it.
"Judge Thomas. I speak of the position of your clients, the Fitch¬
burg road; that road appeared here to-day, as I understand it, opposed to
any consolidation with the Troy & Boston road.
" Mr. Derby. Record it so, if you please. I believe I am correct in so
saying, I object to it."
Now, let me read the fifth point, and you will wonder I have
delayed so long, when I had this in store:—
" The fifth point," says Mr. Derby, " which I propose to submit to this
committee, and through them to the State, is that the objective point to
which we look to-day, is Oswego, upon Lake Ontario, with its ten eleva¬
tors with a capacity of 2,000,000 bushels, with its 20,000 population, with
its capacity to turn out 8,000 barrels of flour, standing as it does at the
outlet of seven lakes, all those interior lakes of New York, with probably
the finest water-power in the United States, with a hundred feet of fall
from these seven lakes down into Lake Ontario, being to-day the terminus
of a railway that will be finished by August, coming down from Niagara
Falls along the line of the lakes, upon the ancient level shore of the
lake to that point. Oswego connects by the new bridge at Lewiston with
the Western and Grand Trunk roads, with the Michigan Central, and so
with Chicago; Oswego, I say, is now our objective point. And when
you get there and make connection with that line by means of an inter¬
mediate line, we shorten the journey to Chicago more than 20 miles from
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
165
what it is to-day by Cleveland and Toledo, the route followed by the
New York Central Yanderbilt line."
Now, gentlemen, I do not know how I could have employed Mr.
Derby as counsel, and witness, too, so cheaply as to have hired the
reporter to write out his argument, and allow me to read it to you,
as I have done. I do not know how I could better show the condi¬
tion, or the position, of this Hoosac Tunnel and its promised and
reasonable use, than by taking just such a document as this, pub¬
lished at the expense of the State when numerous and anxious hear¬
ings were had with counsel, the first in the Commonwealth, with the
determination of all to come to something definite and fixed with
reference to this Tunnel and connecting roads. You see what the
Fitchburg road determined they wanted.
Now, that there may be no doubt about it,—because you will see
how appropriate this is, as I said, if it had been prophecy and fulfil¬
ment you could not have it plainer,—Judge Thomas, on the 27th
page, says:—
" I understand that the Fitchburg road wants a line to Oswego ?
"Mr. Derby. It wants an independent line, and one of the objective
points is Oswego, and it comes here to make both."
Fitchburg Railroad on Our Side.
Now, gentlemen, I hope I have not tired or wearied you with
these extracts. I have now the Fitchburg Railroad on my side ! I
have shown you what the learned counsel for that corporation, at
that time, under instructions, thought of the Boston & Troy road.
Now, President Stearns, who is an exceedingly careful, methodical
railroad man, and if you examine his books to ascertain the cost of
his road and equipment, you will find that he so keeps his accounts
that he knows how the Fitchburg Railroad stands ; he knows it
accurately ; he is watching it carefully ; he is doing it systematically,
as a business ; he took up these papers and looked them over, and
he came to the conclusion, very decidedly, that this Troy & Boston
Railroad, that we now have before us, was utterly unfit, in any way
or shape, to come into any combination with a line to Boston. It
was so poor that it could not even have raised the capital to build
its proportion of 2,000 freight cars, although they cost but $500
apiece; and in making up their amount of capital, that road had
$439,729 ! Mr. Stearns says they kept on until they had, in 1871,
a single-track road 34 miles long, into which they had put $3,567,000,
and they have increased their capital, in the last five years, $991,000,
and not a single mile of road to show for it! Now, we shall not
build any such road. We shall not run any freight lines, even, with
166
THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE.
[Mar.
any such company. I can onty thank my friends, that, knowing
that we were coming here in the immediate future, when this Tunnel
should have been completed (and not waiting for the State to lay a
double track, costing, perhaps, several millions more), we can thank
them for furnishing us with such an admirable store of arguments
and facts as are contained in this document.
r
The Witnesses Change Sides.
Now, you will observe, I have changed my position somewhat.
These two gentlemen are my strongest witnesses. We do not want
any better indorsement of the course, plan and purpose laid down
than I can get from them, both of them starting out with this Tun¬
nel enterprise from the beginning, and both perfectly familiar with
the detail of its progress. If our bill wanted any justification, I
would simply refer to what our opponents themselves undertook to
do, and the reasons and facts, as I have done.
Corporators' Report.
Now, let us take up the document I have here, which is excellent
reading. It is the report of the corporators of the Boston, Hoosac
Tunnel & Western Railroad Company, 1875. I shall only turn to
detached sections of it, and when I have read them, you, as gentle¬
men who were appointed to make this examination, and listen to
our petition, will be interested, I know, to follow out the result. By
referring to this report, you will observe that, after examining the
matter carefully, these gentlemen came to definite conclusions on
all the points upon which our bill rests. I will read first from the
corporators' report, on the 10th page :—
" If the Tunnel line is to be a mere duplicate Boston & Albany Railroad,
twenty miles farther north, running between the same termini, and com¬
peting uifder a similar management for a share of the business supplied
by the same feeders, in such case the questions of organization and man¬
agement are greatly simplified. If, however, it is to become an agency
towards the development of some new and larger system of transporta¬
tion ; if it is to introduce into the State more perfect facilities for carriage;
if, in a word, it is ever to justify the enormous cost of its construction,—
then these questions of organization and ^development will probably be
found far more intricate problems to deal with. The first investiga¬
tion we had to enter upon related, therefore, to the new and especial uses
to which the Tunnel line could be put, now that it was practically com¬
pleted. Was there any work of transportation for it to do which was not
now done over the Boston & Albany road P Was there any new element
or power which it could introduce as a competing force into the carrying
business of New England? These questions definitely settled, it would
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201
167
probably be found that subsequent details were almost in the nature of
inevitable sequence from them."
And so they looked over the line. They found, first, that—
" The Boston & Albany Railroad forms a close connection at Albany
with the Western railroad system over the New York Central's tracks. It
is the most valuable outlet of the last-named company, and its relations
with it are of the closest possible description. A rival line to the Boston
& Albany, connecting with the Central road, might possibly enjoy equal
and impartial advantages with it, but it could certainly expect no more ;
it would open no new channel of trade, it could introduce into New Eng¬
land no new elements of competition."
The testimony of every witness here is to that point, and cor¬
roborates it fully. You saw this at every point and expression of
Mr. Robinson's testimony ; you saw it at every point in the testimony
presented by the Fitchburg Railroad.
" Can, then, the Tunnel line, having at last reached the Hudson River,
lead to any results which have not been brought about already ? . . .
There are now four of these channels (all-rail connections) completed and
in use, and yet others are in course of construction, or projected. The
completed lines are the New York Central, the Erie, the Pennsylvania
and the Baltimore & Ohio railroads. The projected lines are two in num¬
ber, one following the south bank of the Mohawk River, and the other
connecting Oswego, on Lake Ontario, with a point near the head-waters of
the Hudson. One only of these several and competing lines is now
brought into an all-rail connection with Massachusetts through the
agency of the Boston & Albany road. The mission of the Tunnel should
be to bring into the State as many of the others as possible, and the lines
operating through it Should be organized and developed with that result
kept steadily in view.
" In order that the most definite possible information might be obtained
as to what connections were feasible between the Tunnel line and these
Western routes, the corporators placed themselves in direct personal
communication with their leading officials, having interviews with Mr.
Yanderbilt, president of the New York Central; with Mr. Ramsey, of the
Albany & Susquehanna; with Mr. Dickson, of the Delaware & Hudson
Canal Company; with Mr. Jewett, of the Erie, who represented also in
this connection the Baltimore & Ohio interest; and with Messrs. Scott and
Cassatt, of the Pennsylvania Railroad. It is believed that in this way we
fully possessed ourselves of the views of each of these gentlemen and of
the companies they represented.
" The New York Central.—From Mr. Yanderbilt, both directly and indi¬
rectly, assurances were received that no discrimination whatever should
be made by the Central road, as between the Boston & Albany and Tun¬
nel routes [that testimony we have had here to-day; we have had it
for a week past], but that both should receive every facility for the inter-
168 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
change of business, and be treated with absolute impartiality. Mr. Van-
derbilt took the ground that the New York Central Railroad was purely
a carrier for hire; that the object of those controlling it was to make
money. . . .
" These assurances seemed to be satisfactory, so far as they went. But,
even if they are carried out both in the letter and the spirit, they could
secure to the people of Massachusetts nothing they did not already have,
—nothing new could be anticipated from this quarter."
They then went to the Delaware & Hudson Company, and the
Pennsylvania Railroad, and found both were ready to cooperate.
Mr. Ramsey, president of the Albany & Susquehanna Railroad, was
ready to cooperate with his road, through which a connection could
be made with the coal-fields. This road has now become a part of
the Delaware & Hudson Company roads. Mr. Jewett, the president
of the Erie Railway, gave assurance of " arrangements for through
business in no respect inferior to those existing between the Boston
& Albany and the New York Central, which should go into effect as
soon as the Tunnel was in condition to cooperate in them."
In other words, gentlemen, the very things that we have suggested,
the additional connection and alliances sought by our bill, are more
than verified by the examination and report made by these com¬
missioners.
The gentlemen and interests who are opposing us, undertake to
say, also, that we should not have this new road, because the grades
were objectionable on a portion of the line after we left our own road
at Troy. But observe, this report says :—
" As respects the grades, the two routes, each considered as a whole,
do not greatl}* differ,—the New York Central portion of the one possess¬
ing decided advantages over the Albany & Susquehanna sections of the
other, which again is in a great degree counterbalanced by the similar
advantages of the Tunnel section in Massachusetts over the Boston & Al¬
bany. On the 340 miles from Binghamton to Boston, the total rise and
fall is 3,688 feet on the Tunnel and Susquehanna route, as compared with
3,154 feet for an equal distance on the Albany and New York Central.
Under the pro rata system of carrying freights, however, the burden of
unfavorable grades falls wholly upon the company which has to sur¬
mount them, and not upon the members generally of the combined line."
That is precisely what Mr. Blanchard said, that the difference of
grade would be overcome by the parties operating that part of the
railroad.
" Eastern Terminus of Lake Navigation.—The eastern terminus of that
navigation, so far as the Tunnel is concerned, would seem to be at Sche¬
nectady, rather than at Oswego. Schenectady, though 17 miles west of
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
169
Albany, is but two miles farther from Boston by the Tunnel route than
Albany is by the Boston & Albany; in other words, to Schenectady, as a
common point going west from Boston, the Tunnel line gains 15 miles
over the Boston & Albany."
Now, what can we have? What is open, in their opinion, for
Boston and Massachusetts?
" From this general survey it would, therefore, appear that the field
open for development in the interests of the people of Massachusetts
through the Tunnel line, as distinct from that hitherto developed by the
Boston & Albany, is of the most ample description. Leaving the New
York Central wholly out of the question,—treating it as if it did not
exist,—the connections ready for immediate use include both land and
water routes stretching to every part of the interior, and capable of plac¬
ing the Tunnel line at once, so far as through business is concerned, on a
footing in no respect inferior to that of the Boston & Albany. Through
the agency of the Tunnel route, if properly and energetically managed,
eight or ten thousand miles of track and hundreds of millions of addi¬
tional capital, may be brought to bear as a competing force to do the
transportation of Massachusetts."
What the State Can Get.
Gentlemen of the Committee, with such a promise as that lying
open before u$, on the careful examination made by these gentlemen
whose names are appended to this report, and whose names are a
voucher for their knowledge, for their integrity, and for their fidelity
to the State,—William B. Washburn, who was the governor of the
State under whose administration so many of the expenditures con¬
nected with the Tunnel had been made, and who had been identified
with the Tunnel and had interested himself very much in the exten¬
sion of that line,—Wm. B. Washburn, Chas. F. Adams, Jr., P. A.
Chaclbourne, S. M. Crosby, and S. B. Stebbins,—I say, with such a
promise as that, is it surprising, now the Tunnel is completed and
opened for traffic, that some effort should be made to realize the
benefits lying so immediately within our reach?
Grades and Summits.
I cannot do better than ask vour attention now to the railroad
«/
profiles on the wall, which will more than justify all that this official
report has stated. That blue line at the base represents tide-water.
The green line is the Boston & Albany Railroad, and the black line
is the line through the Tunnel; both of those lines beginning at the
Connecticut River, one at Greenfield, the other at Springfield, and
both terminating at and near Schenectady. The one showing the
shortest line on the map, extends four miles beyond Schenectady,
22
170
TIIE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE.
[Mar.
and is twenty-two miles shorter than the other line from Boston to
Schenectady. The summit on the Tunnel line is 838 feet. The
same summit on the Boston & Albany line, which goes over the
mountain, is 1,450 feet. This is the Washington summit, running
from there to Hinsdale.
I stated to you at the beginning, and I will verify it if you look
at that map, that the obstruction to traffic coming over the New
York Central Railroad was greater before it reached Pittsfield—before
it had got into the valley of the Housatonic. They have overcome
more summit, more opposing grade, more elevation (950 feet, on
that line, before they have got to Pittsfield), than there is on the
Tunnel line to Greenfield. They have 1,450 feet more before they
reach Springfield, while on the whole Tunnel line they have only 838
feet to overcome, and there is 150 feet of that above tide-water when
they begin. There is not such a line across the continent; there is
not such a line in Europe. There is no such line from the deep
water of these lakes, covering thousands of square miles, interlacing
eight or nine of our States and furnishing a free communication
between deep water at Oswego and Fair Haven and tide-water, as
there is from tide-water at Boston to those lakes. Even with the
Troy & Boston put into the line, with its grades greater than ours,
and its line of road lengthening ours, it is very much more favorable,
very much more advantageous than the Boston & Albany.
What is the Line West from the Hudson ?
Now, what is to come of this? You might as well have built this
road over the top of the Hoosac Mountain, if you are not to go to and
beyond Schenectady, or if you were only to run a line where that
dotted line (Crane's line) is, with summits as great as those, 1,400
feet, to be overcome as that line goes towards Lake Ontario. The
only line that is open to us to-day, as a practicable, feasible, busi¬
ness line, is a line through the Mohawk Valley. However much
you may want a road in competition with the New York Central
Railroad, you can never get it only as you get it through some
corporation like ours, that comes in and goes out, having no freight
to be stolen, having no cars to be'taken away, having no community
of interest to serve. You have got to take just such a corporation
as ours is. If the Fitchburg Railroad was the most enterprising in
the world ; if instead of representing trust funds it represented men
who should exceed in comprehensiveness of judgment and farsight¬
edness of policy President Vanderbilt and President Scott and
the Erie Railway combined, they dare not use another railroad,—
if it was built the}7 dare not lay their hands on the Mohawk Valley.
It would deprive them of every passenger to connect, and every
1877.] HOUSE—No. 201. 171
ton of freight that finds its way over the Troy & Boston Railroad
toward Boston. We are here, therefore, not only in the service of
Massachusetts and of Boston, but in the service of these very roads,
to open for them a route that they can never get in any other way,
or by any other agency.
You see, ive are saving the State and the Fitchburg Railroad.
This book (Corporators' Report) contains a vast record of facts
gained by careful examination and surveys. It justifies to the full¬
est extent the propositions that I have made to this Committee,
representing as you do the Legislature of the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts. You, gentlemen, if I understand it aright, are the
eyes and the ears of the Legislature, to hear these facts, to aggre¬
gate these results, and, in view of the vast importance of the ques¬
tion we are considering, present them to the Legislature in the most
intelligible and comprehensive way. We have come to help you.
We have come in the interest of the State. We have come not any
more in the interest of the Boston, Iloosac Tunnel & Western Rail¬
road, than in the interest of the Fitchburg Railroad. We have not
come (I make no concealments) in the interest of the Troy & Bos¬
ton road to build *a road down to Troy, nor to Albany, nor to an
Albany new bridge. We have come in the interest of a through
line to the West, and I will tell }Tou why we come first before this
Committee.
What the Erie Railway Wanted.
The Erie Railway, in its new reorganization, found themselves
with a narrow-gauge track in addition to their broad gauge,
extending from Waverley 200 miles to Lake Erie, to Buffalo, to
the Suspension Bridge, to the International Bridge, and to all the
connections of these roads in Canada, and to the Lake Shore &
Michigan Southern Railroad. That connection could be extended
O .
b}r laying less than 40 miles of third rail to Binghamton ; and when
brought to Binghamton, the line was open thence to Massachusetts.
Before these gentlemen returned to London to complete their reor¬
ganization, they hoped they could give to Boston, over the Fitchburg
Railroad, an absolutely independent narrow or standard gauge route
from the far West in competition with all other lines ; while they
could not narrow gauge their route to New York, they would narrow
gauge it to Boston if the Iloosac Tunnel interest and the Common¬
wealth of Massachusetts would allow them to come. They asked
no exclusive rights, they claimed no privileges, they wanted no
promises even. All they wanted was such legislation as would
enable them to join the interest that they had already invested with
172 TIIE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
a line through the Iloosac Tunnel, and put the Erie Railway into
Boston with a narrow-gauge connection that is as short from Boston
to Chicago as it is from New York to Chicago by way of the New
York Central and Michigan Southern. Was there ever such an
opportunity opened to Massachusetts?
An independent Erie narrow-gauge to Boston.
Within the time between this and July, under our bill, I will
agree with the gentlemen who are represented in this petition
before you, to place into Boston a competing through line of
freight and passengers from all the great cities of the West. We
have dreamed of this possibility as we were spending our mil¬
lions on the Tunnel. It has been the subject of editorials in the
newspapers; it has been the subject of legislation; it has been
the subject of anxious thought and study by those who were inter¬
ested in the prosperity of our State,—how were we to derive a
substantial benefit from the Tunnel? how were we to reap the
reward of the large expenditure we were making? To-day it is
open to you ; and by whom ? By the men of all others who rep¬
resent railroad wisdom and railroad knowledge, combined with
exceeding circumspection and implicit—as you might say, implicit
—reliance in their own minds by actual experience on the results
that they can develop.
Knocking at the Door.
Mr. Blanchard says in his testimony, "We come knocking at
the door. We want to supply a through line with business for
Massachusetts. We know nothing about the squabbles of rival
corporations. We know nothing about the complications of any
particular bill. We want to unite with this road. And I will say
to you, that I promised Col. Scott, that if he did not use but 10
miles of the road, he should go over that road to carry his lines
to the Tunnel and into Boston. He says, " I will say n5w, that we
will take this road, and it shall be as open as the Tunnel itself to
every road that applies to go over it." He says, " I will take any
line I can get." He says, " The Fitchburg Railroad, from the Tun¬
nel down, and through the Tunnel, where it is under their control,
have offered me such a line, and I commend them." And he did
commend them in the fullest manner, and without the least reserve.
If there ever was an honest, square, fair statement, it wras the state¬
ment of Mr. Blanchard. He is a director in the Erie Railway,
coming from New York and presenting himself here, serving the
best interests of that road and in the interest of Boston, represent¬
ing a line of 970 miles in their own control, with no narrow-gauge
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
JL I O
connection with New York. He told you that the difference of dis¬
tance did not compare with what he was encountering and over¬
coming ever}7 day on every competing line into New York. He told
you it did not compare with the distance they were competing
against in getting into Philadelphia, and in getting into Baltimore.
And he says, "We have come knocking at the door, to open into
Boston the same competing lines we have opened in Philadelphia
and New York, and we only ask you to open it. We do not ask to
have anybody excluded."
A Free Line to All.
That was the agreement under which I drew the provisions of this
bill; and when I came before you, I told you that the provisions of
that bill should be made in every respect safe for the State; that
they should be made in every respect to answer every objection of
any man who could come here and desired a perfect bill; that we
were absolutely honest in our intentions ; that we believed we could
accomplish what we proposed to you, and that we would verify it
before we got through. This I said in my opening remarks. Has
not Mr. Blanchard confirmed this in his own quiet, unanswerable
way ? And do you not believe him ?
Why not Open the Door ?
And if you believe Mr. Blanchard, is there a man who sits to-day
around this table as a representative of the Commonwealth of Mas¬
sachusetts who does not feel in his heart both an anxietv and obli-
1/
gation to open that door? Ho you not owe it to yourselves? Do
you not owe it to the Commonwealth, that her industries may pros¬
per in every branch? Do y*ou not owe it to the over-taxed and
burdened people who are to-day suffering on account of the expen¬
diture on that Tunnel, by an annual lev}7 to pay the interest? I
know you feel so. They may say we are not going to build the
road. They may come to you with the ten thousand objections
that such men may raise, but it is not possible that they should
weigh with you. I will tell you why. These gentlemen of Boston
who represent this railroad organization in New York are here over
their own signatures. I said to them: " Your names are known.
They represent railroad experience and railroad management; they
represent capital; they represent influence and position.
These are the Men.
If you will come together, Mr. Ames, Mr. Alley, Mr. Atkins,
Mr. Pullman, Mr. Blanchard, Governor Claflin, Dr. Howe, Mr.
Candler,—if you will let us join this force together, it will have
174 TIIE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
such a representative power in the railroad world, that next July
will see an independent line of narrow-gauge, standard gauge
road from the great West to Boston. And if you will do as you
have promised me you would, as you have promised the people
you would, we can have a through line from Lake Ontario also,
giving the Tunnel all the business of the great lakes ; grain coming
down to Oswego from all the shores of "Lake Michigan and even
Lake Superior, at five cents a bushel, and put into Boston for foreign
shipment at one-lialf what it can be put into the city of New York
by any possible line of railroad. All we want of the Erie Railroad
is that she will join in that; and if you, President Dickson, and you,
President Pullman, will join in that, we will take you with your coal,
with passenger lines, and with all your connections, and we will
make the Hoosac Tunnel what it was intended to be ; to wit, the
means of securing an independent line to the West, operated upon
principles that shall be equal and just to all." These men, gentle¬
men, have signed their own names, in their own handwriting, to
this paper, which has been placed before you. Every name that
appears on this petition has been signed by each man also to this
statement.
I will read it, as the original makes a part of the, records of the
Senate and House.
To the Honorable the Senate and House of Representatives of the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts.
The undersigned, members of the board of directors of the Boston,
Hoosac Tunnel & Western Railway of New York, respectfully represent
that they have secured a charter and organized a corporation under the
laws of the State of New York, for the purpose of constructing, main¬
taining and operating a railroad from* the westerly end of the Troy
& Greenfield Railroad, at the boundary line of the State of New York, to
Lake Ontario, running through the Mohawk River Yalley.
That they have made this organization for the purpose of securing an
independent through line of railroad from tide-water in Boston Harbor
to Lake Ontario, utilizing the Hoosac Tunnel and Troy & Greenfield Rail¬
road for this purpose, with intermediate connections at various points of
great value, more especially at Schenectady, with the Erie Railway, and
the anthracite and bituminous coal-fields of Northern Pennsylvania, by
means of the Delaware & Pludson Company's road from Schenectady to
Binghamton, in the State of New York.
That to perfect this enterprise, it is necessary that they should have the
right to use the Troy & Greenfield Railroad and Hoosac Tunnel upon
definite and permanent rates of toll, and should .have the right to con¬
struct, purchase^ lease and operate in the Commonwealth of Massachu¬
setts, such railroads or portions of railroads as will enable them to reach
tide-water at Boston from the easterly end of the Troy & Greenfield Rail¬
road, near Greenfield, in the State of Massachusetts.
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201
175
For this purpose your petitioners respectfully ask,—
First. For authority to enter upon and use the Hoosac Tunnel and
Troy & Greenfield Railroad upoh a fixed rate of toll, graduated upon a
sliding scale proportioned to the annual use, the Commonwealth retain¬
ing the general management of the road and Tunnel, and also retaining
the right to permit any and all railroads to use said road and Tunnel, as
they may at any time see fit.
Second. For authority to construct, purchase, lease and operate any
railroad or railroads between the Troy & Greenfield Railroad, near Green¬
field, and the city of Boston, as may be necessary to perfect such con¬
tinuous through line.
Third.' They do not ask any pecuniary aid or assistance in this enter¬
prise, either from the Commonwealth or from any municipal corporation,
and are prepared themselves to furnish the necessary means for the com¬
pletion of such through line forthwith ; and believing that the Common¬
wealth ought not to be called upon for any further expenditures upon the
Troy & Greenfield Railroad and Hoosac Tunnel, your petitioners hereby
offer to maintain and keep in repair said railroad and railroad property;.
also, to make all necessary permanent improvements upon the same,
including the laying of a double track, constructing of all necessary
engine-houses, water-tanks and stations upon the line of said road ; and
ask that all railroads using the safne be required to bear their proportion
of the expense of the maintenance of said road and of the permanent
improvements upon the same, in proportion to their use.
Fourth. And they further ask, as the Fitchburg Railroad and the Ver¬
mont & Massachusetts Railroad are at present indispensably necessary
for any connection from the Troy & Greenfield Railroad and Hoosac
Tunnel to the city of Boston, that such legislation may be had as will
secure their proper cooperation in the development of said line from
Boston to Lake Ontario.
Fifth. The provisions of the legislation which your petitioners ask
shall further provide that a majority of the electors shall be citizens of
this Commonwealth ; that its principal place of business shall be main¬
tained in the city of Boston; that the lieutenant-governor of the Com¬
monwealth and the president of the board of trade of the city of Boston,
shall be ex officio directors of the same.
And your petitioners will ever pray.
Estes Howe.
Oliver Ames.
Elisila Atkins.
William Claflin.
Wm. L. Burt. .
Fred. L. Ames.
John W. Candler.
George I. Post.
G. R. Blanchard.
S. S. Gurtiirie.
John B. Alley.
Geo. M. Pullman.
Giles W. Hotchkiss.
176
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
How We are Met.
And these gentlemen, who have come before you with that peti¬
tion, and with these representations, are met in what spirit? In
the spirit in which men controlling millions of capital, and with
large railroad experience, who offer to aid the State in the develop¬
ment of the Tunnel, that great enterprise into which t^e State has
put seventeen millions should be met? No ; they are met as though
they were tricksters, sharpers, small cheats and frauds, or a band of
robbers, who had gathered together to see how they might in some
way join in a great swindle that has been, and is being, perpetrated
on the State! As though they were an " inchoate " corporation,
forsooth, these Massachusetts men, who have organized under a
New York law, to do Massachusetts a service. Even Mr. Blanchard,
who comes here representing the interest of the Erie Railway, and
offers to put into Boston an independent through competing line of
freight and passengers, is as bad or worse than the rest. These are
the men whom you are told have gone out of Massachusetts to form
a corporation, in order that they may come back and steal the sub¬
stance of the State in the Hoosac Tunnel. Now, it is a shame ! It
is not creditable to the parties that come here, it is not creditable to
Massachusetts, that men standing as these men do, should be put
under such suspicion ; that they should be met by any such objections.
You must criticise. Men disappear ; corporations remain. One is
comparatively everlasting; the other for a day. That is all true.
But these men come here and ask you to sit down with them, as I
have sat down from time to time, gathering every criticism that may
come from friends or enemies, inviting from all quarters scrutiny
and care.
Help Draw a Perfect Bill.
We have asked you, we have asked them,—have we not?—
to help us frame a bill that should answer in form and substance
the requirements of that petition. We cannot build or operate
any road unless we have a charter from Massachusetts. No men
would put capital into this line of road under the existing condition
of things as that report shows, as the testimony of Mr. Blanchard
shows, as the testimony of Mr. Robinson shows.
They Slam the Door in Our Face.
Why, since we have come here, and since we have advertised our
notice for this charter, they have closed another door upon us and
upon the State. Passenger cars, except those from the New York
Central line, are forever excluded from the Troy & Boston road and
over this line and from the Tunnel. This is the condition of the
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
177
passenger line to-day ; what shall we do to-morrow ? It may be
worse. The rates to-day for freight on the Fitchburg road, the rates
on this through freight line may be high to-day ; they will be higher
to-morrow than they are to-day. This kind of opposition will
increase faster than any support that we can bring. In the shape
that we are, or anybody is, it cannot be met.
A New York Charter.
We must have an organization in New York to build the portion
of the railroad there. We have so stated it in our bill. You
understand how it is, gentlemen. Was the fling that has been made
at us, that we are a New York corporation, a fair one? We could
not do otherwise. We had gone to New York to build a part of
this railroad for you. The Boston & Albany Railroad requires a
charter in the same way, in both Massachusetts and New York.
What else could we do? How would they have us do? What
shall we secure when we have built it through New York? You
say we have reached the Tunnel. That is not the case. At the
Vermont line, at the old " Southern Vermont Railroad-," we come
to a road that the State of Massachusetts owns, and that road
shuts the door on us and all competing roads. /
The Troy & Boston Railroad.
Now, I am very thankful that our friend, President Robinson,
has stayed to hear me upon that point, and I wish you to give me
your careful attention. I mean to make myself plain and intelligi¬
ble, and I think I shall; and if I do not show you, if jtou will follow
me step by step, that the State of Massachusetts can grant us the
right to use that six miles of railroad through Vermont to-da}T, and
without breaking faith with anybody, and that it is your duty to
do it, in view of the fact that while that road is the only western
approach to the Tunnel to-day it is excluding business from the
Tunnel every day, then we shall have utterly failed.
Charter of Southern Vermont Railroad.
Now, please follow me. The first proposition is this: That the
Troy & Boston Railroad, that claims to hold a lease of the Southern
Vermont Railroad, can never gain any greater rights than the orig¬
inal Southern Vermont Company had by its charter. That is evi¬
dent. Those of you who are not lawyers will appreciate it, and
those of you who are will recognize it as an axiom. Then, if it can
get no greater rights than that corporation had, it cannot get any
greater rights by any ratification or implied ratification of the lease
by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, than the Troy & Green-
23
178
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE.
[Mar.
field Railroad had in their charter. The extent of their rights is
limited by the rights those two corporations had by their charters,
more especially the Vermont corporation. Now, I will take the
liberty to detain you a moment on that point. Section 29 of the
charter of the Southern Vermont Railroad, as granted by the State
of Vermont, provides :—
" Section 29. The legislature of this state may authorize any com¬
pany to enter with another railroad at any point of the road hereby
granted, paying for the right to use the same, or any part thereof, such
rate of toll as the legislature may hereafter prescribe, and complying
with such rules and regulations as may be established," etc. •
The State of Vermont, therefore, created this railroad, which is
now leased to the Troy & Boston, reserving the right to allow any
other railroad company to run over it.
Now, let us turn to the Act of Massachusetts incorporating the
Troy & Greenfield Railroad. By the sixth section of that Act, it is
provided:—
" The legislature may authorize any railroad company to enter, with
their railroad, upon the Troy & Greenfield Railroad, upon such terms as
may be agreed upon by said companies, or as may be prescribed by the
provisions of law."
i
Both States may Permit any Road to use it.
Now, by the charters of these roads, the Legislature of each State
respectively reserved the right to allow any road to use this road.
What is the next step? Before this lease was made, under the
original charter of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad in Massachu¬
setts, it was provided that—
" The said corporation may contract with the owners of any contiguous
railroad leading into or from either' of the States of Vermont or New
York, for the use of the whole or any part thereof, or for the running
and operating the two railroads conjointly, or for the leasing of such con¬
tiguous road, or for the letting or hiring of their own road to the owners
of such contiguous road, or of any other road which composes a part of
the railroad line between the cities of Boston and Troy, of which the
railroad hereby authorized shall be a part."
Under that Act, then, authority was given the Troy & Greenfield
Railroad to deal with this railroad in Vermont.
On the sixth page of the commissioners' report, 18G2, they say:—
" It appears from the records of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad Com¬
pany, that as early as 1850, measures were taken to extend the line of
railroad west from the state line " [that is, the Troy & Greenfield Rail-
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
179
road in Massachusetts], "by procuring a charter from the general
assembly of Vermont, for the Southern Vermont Railroad Company, and
consolidating the two corporations.11
It appears by the records of the stockholders of the Troj7 & Green¬
field Railroad, that the}7 themselves went forward and built this rail¬
road. Both these Acts of incorporation, the Southern Vermont and
the Troy & Greenfield, in Massachusetts, were passed in 1848. The
one was the fruit of the other. The Massachusetts charter reserved
the right of the Massachusetts road to go into Vermont, and the
Vermont charter, as I will now show you, reserved the right of the
Massachusetts road to come there. You will find that the Vermont
Act contains this provision,—
" Sect. 19. The persons who shall become stockholders of any rail¬
road company which has been, or may hereafter be, created by the Com¬
monwealth of Massachusetts, or by the state of New York, and whose
road shall connect with the road of this corporation, at the south or west
line of this state, shall be stockholders of this corporation, together with
such persons as shall be stockholders of this corporation.11
In other words, you will find by these various proceedings these
two railroads were intimately interlocked.
The Mortgage to the State.
Now, what is the next proceeding? The Troy & Greenfield Rail¬
road in Massachusetts wanted to borrow some money, and she came
to the State of Massachusetts to do it, and in the action of the State
of Massachusetts, the very first thing that was done was to make a
mortgage,—the first mortgage of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad,—
to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Now, you will bear in
mind that, at this time, there was no lease ; there was no talk of
any lease, because, according to the dates, this mortgage precedes
the lease by several years.
In 1854, the State of Massachusetts passed an Act entitled, " An
Act authorizing a loan of the state credit to enable the Troy &
Greenfield Railroad Company to construct the Hoosac Tunnel," with
this provision in it:—
" Sect. 6. In addition to the security provided in the preceding sec¬
tion, the said company shall assign all the interest they now have or may
hereafter obtain in the Southern Vermont Railroad Company.11
Following the acceptance of this Act by the stockholders, they
passed, July 26, 1855, this vote :—
" Voted, That the directors be authorized to assign, by themselves or
by a committee duly authorized, and countersigned to the treasurer, to
180 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
the Commonwealth, all the interest this corporation now has, or may
hereafter obtain, in the Southern Vermont Railroad Company.1'
And the directors, following that vote, made this convej-ance:—
" Know all men by these presents, That the Troy & Greenfield Railroad
Company, in consideration of the sum of two millions of dollars" [this is
the two million loan] " paid, or to be paid by the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, according to the provisions of a certain Act of the said
Commonwealth, approved on the fifth day of April, a. d. 1854, entitled,
' An Act authorizing a loan of the state credit to enable the Troy & Green¬
field Railroad Company to construct the Hoosac Tunnel,1 does hereby
give, grant, bargain, sell, and convey unto the Commonwealth of Massa¬
chusetts, the entire railroad of said corporation, with its franchises, in¬
come, and property. Also, there is hereby assigned and conveyed all the
interest which the said Troy & Greenfield Railroad Company now has,
or may, or shall at any time hereafter have or obtain, in the Southern
Vermont Railroad Company." . . .
" To have and to hold the said entire railroad, income, property, and
franchise of the said Troy & Greenfield Railroad Company, with such
interest as said company now has, or may, or shall hereafter have or
obtain, in the Southern- Vermont Railroad Company, to the Common¬
wealth of Massachusetts, and its assigns, to their use and behoof forever."
Every possible party to this pretended lease had become a party
to a conveyance to the State of Massachusetts of the road, franchise
and company they had organized in Vermont, and this was* years
before the date of this lease.
Nor was this all. This mortgage being thought to be imperfect,
the railroad company again, on the sixth day of July, 1860, exe¬
cuted a new conveyance, ratifying the old conveyance; and they put
in these words :—
" The intent and meaning hereof being to convey and to confirm as
aforesaid to said Commonwealth, all lands, buildings and tenements, and
all interests and easements therein that said corporation now has, or here¬
after may acquire within the limits of the location made and filed as
aforesaid, and to confirm all former conveyances, bonds and mortgages
heretofore made as aforesaid."
Not satisfied with that, they made another mortgage in 1862, and
went over the same recital that they had formerly made in both con¬
veyances, and they again ratified and confirmed them, and delivered
them to the Commonwealth.
Perfect Title in the Commonwealth.
This may be a little tedious, but it is very important. We have
all the property the Troy & Greenfield Railroad Company had in
1877.] HOUSE—No. 201. 181
/
the State of Massachusetts, and all the propert}r they had in the
State of Vermont, conveyed absolutely to the Commonwealth.
Now, what intervenes? It turns out that Mr. Haupt, when he
built this road in Vermont, had made a lease, which bears date in
1856,—about three years after the first mortgage to the Common¬
wealth,—to the Troy & Boston Railroad Compan}T. It was not
executed or acknowledged for some years after,—I do not know
why the delay, but the record shows it. It was finally acknowl¬
edged by the Troy & Boston Railroad Company and the Southern
Vermont Railroad Company, on the twenty-seventh day of April,
1860, by both these corporations, and their acknowledgments are
taken very carefully and fully.
The Lease made after Mortgage.
*
Now, what? Before that date, and before any acknowledgment or
execution of this lease by the Southern Vermont Railroad Company,
they had conveyed to the Troy & Greenfield Railroad Company,
under an Act of the Legislature of Massachusetts, the entire stock,
property, and franchise of their road in Vermont, and that was
executed and recorded April 21, 1860, five days before the lease was
acknowledged. The record shows all this. It is absolute upon its
face to this State. The Commonwealth gets the title under that
conveyance of the Southern Vermont Railroad Company. And the
whole was executed to the State of Massachusetts, and acknowledged
and recorded on'the twenty-first day of April, 1860, and on that day
the Southern Vermont Railroad Corporation ceased to exist.
State of Vermont.
" Bennington County, ss. April 21, a. d. 1860.
"Then personalty appeared the aforesaid R. Carpenter, Jr., H. Cart-
wright, and H. Haupt, agents of the Southern Vermont Railroad Com¬
pany, and acknowledged the foregoing instrument to be the free act and
deed of the said Southern Vermont Railroad Company, and that the same
was executed by them, on its behalf, and by its authority.
" Before me, A. B. Gardner, Justice of the Peace.'1''
" Town Clerk's Office, Bownal.
" Received for record, April 21,1860, at 4 o'clock 20 minutes p. m., by
me at my office, which is the only place for recording of deeds in and for
the town of Pownal, and recorded in book 20, pages Nos. 408, 9, 10 and
411. Harmon Myers, Town Clerk."
Turning now to the record, you will find that the Southern Ver¬
mont Railroad Company and the Troy & Boston Railroad Company
both executed, acknowledged and recorded this pretended lease six
days after, on the twenty-seventh day of April, 1860, by D. Thomas
182
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
Vail, president of the Troy & Boston Railroad Company, and by
Abraham B. Gardner, agent of the Southern Vermont Railroad
Company.
" State of Vermont.
" Bennington County, ss. Bennington, April 27, 1860.
" Then personally appeared the said Abraham B. Gardner, agent as
aforesaid, and who executed the within and foregoing instrument for
and on behalf of the said Southern Vermont Railroad Company, and
acknowledged the same to be the free act and deed of said company.
"Before me, Samuel J. Blackmer, Justice of the Peace."
" Received for record April 27, 1860, and recorded by me,
S. H. Blackmer, County Clerk"
No Authority to Lease this Road.
Now" gentlemen, what does all this mean? Here was a convey¬
ance and a lease. The conveyance was perfected to the Troy &
Greenfield Railroad, and by them perfected to the State of Massa¬
chusetts, duly acknowledged by all the officers, and put upon the
records; and in that very conveyance it is recited that there is a
lease. And yet that lease had not been executed, and was never
executed until a week afterwards, and it was then put upon the
record. What does it mean? It means just this. The Troy &
Boston Railroad (those of you who are lawyers will appreciate me)
had no more right to lease that road than I have. They are running
the road in the State of Vermont to-day, but they have no authority
to run it from the State of Vermont,—not a particle ; they have no
authority from any State whatever; do not claim to have any.
Now, what? Having, as they claim, thus got a perpetual lease,
they come in here and say that the State of Massachusetts cannot
authorize another railroad to go over it. Now, having shown you
how that lease was made,—and I will say here that these very
swindles were the things that frightened men at the State House
from trusting the Troy & Greenfield Railroad any longer,—you
could not turn a leaf of their history over without finding that, in
some way, there was dishonest}7 under it,—something indirect,
insecure, dishonest and unfaithful to the State. We found, what?
That when the Troy & Greenfield Railroad made all these convey¬
ances to the State, Mr. Haupt and the officers of that road had
made a pretended lease to the Troy & Boston Railroad Company.
Two Hundred Thousand Dollars.
Then they put it into the very mortgage that they made to con¬
firm the title to the State of Massachusetts (they had made three
conveyances before) ; they put in a proviso that $200,000 should be
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201
183
furnished by the State to clear up the title of the Southern Vermont
Railroad. And what clearing up of that title did they get? They
got just what every man gets who undertakes to deal with a cheat.
They came off worse than they would have been if they had let it
alone.
Statement of the Law.
In 1852, by an Act of the State of Massachusetts, the Troy &
Greenfield Railroad Company and the Southern Vermont Railroad
Company are authorized to consolidate, turning over all these con¬
veyances. In the Vermont Acts, after this conveyance was made
to the Commonwealth, authority is granted to the " Troy & Green¬
field Railroad Company, a corporation established by the laws of
the State of Massachusetts to purchase, hold and -mortgage to the
State of Massachusetts the franchise, railroad and property of the
Southern Vermont Railroad Company, a corporation established by
the laws of this State," " and all sales, conveyances, transfers and
mortgages heretofore made by the Southern Vermont Railroad Com¬
pany, or by either of said companies, to the State of Massachusetts
are hereby ratified and confirmed."
Do }tou find a^'thing about this pretended lease in that? They
dare not go to the State of Vermont and sa}' that the}^ had that lease.
We have got a mortgage ; we have got a perfect title ; we have got
a confirmation of our conveyance by the good State of Vermont,
and no lease appears.
Vermont Road free to all Roads.
Now, the Troy & Greenfield Railroad Company by the Act author¬
izing consolidation with the Southern Vermont Railroad Company
are subjected to all the provisions of the charter of the Troy &
Greenfield Railroad Company, and also certain sections of the
charter in Vermont, and one of these provisions is this very twent}r-
ninth section, which says that this road shall be open for use at all
times to every other railroad.
Now, I beg you just to look at the map (Postal Route Map of
New York and New England), and let us connect our ideas with
something visible for a moment. I have now read to you until, by
the laws of the State of Vermont and the State of Massachusetts,
and the joint action of both corporations, that six miles of road
from the state line of Massachusetts to that point—the line of New
York and of Vermont—has become an inseparable part of the Troy
& Greenfield Railroad, and is conveyed by a common title to this
State. By the charter in the State of Vermont, any railroad is
allowed to run its cars over their tracks. By the charter in the
State of Massachusetts, the Troy & Greenfield Railroad was subject
184 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar
to the same provision of allowing an}^ railroad company to run over
their tracks. Now, this Troy & Greenfield corporation has extended
the franchise of its road over and has entire control of the property
in Vermont, and has conveyed it to the State of Massachusetts.
This has been done by the direct legislation of Vermont and of
Massachusetts, has it not?
You Cannot Say " No!"
And I have come to you to ask you to permit our road and all
roads to use these tracks. You cannot say "No" to this. Why?
Because we all want to use them in the interest of the Hoosac
Tunnel, do we not? and that was precisely what these roads were
instructed by the very words of the charter to do.
We Want Your Permission.
And I want to do it by your permission. Why? Because, if I
should go to-morrow into the State of Vermont and start to build a
road parallel to the Troy & Greenfield Railroad in Vermont, the
supreme court might interfere and say, " The comity of this State is
pledged to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; you cannot do it.
We have authorized the building of this road, and its transfer to
the Troy & Greenfield Railroad Company, and the mortgage and
transfer of the road to the State of Massachusetts. The Common¬
wealth of Massachusetts has come, in her political organization as a
State, within our borders, and is now exercising jurisdiction, under
and through the charter of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad, by our
permission, and that charter gives the right to any railroad to run
over this piece of road with their permission. We can give you no
rights that will infringe upon what we have pledged ourselves to the
State of Massachusetts to maintain. You go to the State of Mas¬
sachusetts and let her grant you that right, and then come to us and
we will confirm it. If you cannot get it in that way, let them show
in some way that they desire that you should have it, and we will
allow you to build another road parallel to it through Vermont."
Thus, the Perpetual Lease Vanishes.
Have I not made a plain case ? And such is the railroad that has
upon it a perpetual lease, a road that everybody can use by the terms
of both its charters. Now, they have cut off other people from the
Tunnel. Mr. Blanchard and all of us come here and say, "We will
build a line from Schenectady, with our own monej", and connect with
the Tunnel and the state's road ; and we are gravely told that that
lease stands in the wa}r, and we are told that we are " confiscating"
the property leased to this New York corporation ! " Whom the
877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
185
gods would destroy, they first make mad." It is as true of rail¬
roads as of individuals, and I have sometimes thought, a little more
so. If there ever was a railroad that was determined on going to
perdition immediately, it begins in some such way as this.
Now, instead of having a close corporation with tracks that
nobody can use, we find we have a corporation that everybody can
use, and that too by authority of two States. Just look at it!
There is no escape from it.
Retributive Justice to the State.
That is the issue before us. But there is an equity about all this,
because they first began by conveying this six miles of road to the
State of Massachusetts as security for a loan long before the lease
was made. Now, I will tell you what the lease was for. They
complain that we ask you now to interpose. The language of this
conveyance of the Southern Vermont Railroad to the Troy & Green¬
field Railroad, and to this Commonwealth, is this [I will read it to
you, as I said before, as " common men "] : " all the lands, depots,
buildings, structures, and other property connected therewith or be¬
longing thereto, and all the franchises, capital, stock, bonds, leases,
contracts, rights, privileges, and other property of said grantor cor¬
poration, including the lease made by said grantor corporation to
the Troy & Boston Railroad Company, dated the twenty-first da}7 of
November, in the year 1856, one part of which, held by the lessor
corporation, is hereto annexed, and all the income, benefits and re¬
version thereof." And that was in accordance with and as confirm¬
ing the conveyance that Mr. Haupt had prepared, and the State of
Massachusetts gave them for this conveyance and the " reversion "
of this lease—that had never reverted and never will—two hundred
thousand dollars.
This Lease built the Road.
Now, they say, we could never have had that road built, if they
had not in the first place made this contract with them, for a lease.
Supposing that was so, will somebody come here and tell me,—I will
ask my brother to do it now; he shall not be cut off because I am
having the closing argument,—supposing the lease was for the pur¬
pose of getting the road built, will you tell me why they came in
and made the Commonwealth pay $200,000 for it long after it was
built, if it was a sealed book, and nobody, even the Commonwealth
itself, could use it?
* '
186 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
Why did the State build this Road ?
Mr. Torrey. Which brother are }rou asking?
Mr. Burt. I should be very glad to hear from both of them. I
will put the question to both of them, but more particularly to Mr.
Allen. He argued to you, defending the Troy & Boston Railroad,
that this road could not have been built without they had first made
the lease. That may be so. I do not know what Mr. Haupt might
have done. I know what he did. He put out the bonds and
securities on that six miles of road, that never cost $80,000, to the
amount of $200,000, and the State of Massachusetts has paid that
money. Now, the State is not a banking corporation. We are not
even taking a lease on good securit}r. The State was doing this
for the purpose of clearing this road, and making it a part of the
Tunnel line. Now, I would like to have these gentlemen answer
this question, if they can, and if they cannot, let anybody answer it
who can—
What did the State of Massachusetts pay that money for f
Will you who hold the lease pay that money back. If j~ou will, we
can get another road. Why did the Commonwealth of Massachu¬
setts get a guarantee—a confirmation as you might call it—
from the State of Vermont, that we had got something in that
State? What have we got? Why, we are like the man who is heir
to another man's debts! What have we got? We have got noth¬
ing in the State of Vermont except this: the eternal remembrance
of a cheat. And I beg my friends to remember when they come
here from this Troy & Boston New York corporation, that, in
addition to the stigma of being a New York corporation, and an
" inchoate" one at that, they will always come here with the stigma
of having been part and parcel of a cheat,—of a cheat upon the State
of Massachusetts,—and this will remain as long as that lease stands.
There has been no explanation made of it, and it cannot be ex¬
plained on any possible theory. It is not explained by the aid it
gave to building the road ; that was long before it was conve3Ted
to the State of Massachusetts. We paid $200,000, above the
two millions, and long after the road was built and running. Now,
as often as they may come here, and pleasantly as we shall greet
them,—as we always have and alwa}^s shall,—}*et we shall say:
" These are the fellows who cheated us out of $200,000."
The Sections of our Bill.
Gentlemen, I'must ask your attention to our bill, as we now desire
its enactment. You see I have gone over many of these matters
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
187
very discursively. I wanted to read a few passages from Mr. Blanch-
ard's testimony, but it will be printed and laid before you. The
position I am obliged to take in this .bill, as against the Fitchburg
railroad, is almost an absurdity. I cannot see now, any better than
I could when I began, why they should not all come in and help me.
I cannot understand it. What is there in this bill that they should
not help us to obtain ?
A Railroad in New YorTc.
Do you want a railroad to go through the State of New York?
You can only get it by going there and getting a charter, and
organizing under the law of New York; and when you have done
that, and organized under their law, you can build your road,—
not before. You can get there in no other way. What is it
to you that other people want to build a new road to Albany,
or a bridge a mile below Albany, or that they want to build another
road to Schenectady, or that they want to build the Poughkeepsie
Bridge, or are waiting for somebody to build the Massachusetts
Central Railroad ? The point is this : we have got the Tunnel, and
cannot get to it or out of it. The one thing necessary for us is to
get out. We must have such a corporation as this ; we can get into
New York in no other way. Now, can we come to Massachusetts and
ask the Legislature to allow us to use this tunnel, at a fixed rate of
toll, and under precisely the same limitations that any other railroad
uses it? I think we can, if we ask for it with the proper limitations.
We have no right to use it now. We are a foreign corporation.
All the liberal legislation of this State will give no railroad in another
State the right to run its cars through the Tunnel, except by special
law. We have come for that permissive law.
We want your Permission,
Now, the Troy & Greenfield Railroad, and the lease of the South¬
ern Vermont are disposed of. You see why we first want permission
of the State of Massachusetts. We say that we cannot go into the
State of Vermont unless we have the cooperation of Massachusetts ;
and having that permission, it will not be a breach of the comity be¬
tween States if Vermont gives us another route, and gives us the
same rights that she gives to other roads.
The way to meet the Vermont Lease.
Now, the next provision is,—
"If said Troy & Boston Railroad Company shall decline and refuse
to surrender and cancel said lease, and shall refuse to permit the Com¬
monwealth of Massachusetts to authorize all connecting railroads to use
188
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE
[Mar.
said Troy & Greenfield Railroad in the State of Vermont for the pur¬
pose of connecting with and using the Troy & Greenfield Railroad and
Hoosae Tunnel in the State of Massachusetts, then, and from the time
they shall so refuse, and so long as they shall so refuse, said Troy &
Boston Railroad may be prohibited by the governor and council from
using any portion of the Troy & Greenfield Railroad in the State of
Massachusetts; and in the event of such refusal by said Troy & Boston
Railroad Company, the consent of this Commonwealth is hereby given to
said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel & Western Railway, and they are permit¬
ted, subject to the laws of the State of Vermont, and under a proper cor¬
porate organization in the State of Vermont, to enter upon and use and
locate, construct and maintain a railroad upon the rights of way and
railroad lands of said Troy & Greenfield Railroad in the State of Ver¬
mont, or anv part or portion of the same as may be necessary to con¬
struct another railroad to reach the Troy & Greenfield Railroad and
Hoosac Tunnel, and all said lands and real estate are granted as a free
gift and without compensation : provided, however, when said road shall
have been so constructed by said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel & Western
Railway over and upon the said lands and rights of way, all railroads
authorized to use the Troy & Greenfield Railroad and Hoosac Tunnel,
under the laws of Massachusetts, shall be authorized to use said railroad
so constructed in the State of Vermont, upon the payment by such par¬
ties of their proportionate part of the cost of construction of said rail¬
road and its maintenance, in proportion to their use of the same; such
proportion to be determined by the governor and council, in case of dis¬
agreement."
I think you ought to exercise this power. I am not certain 3rou
ought to leave its exercise to us, so that we might go forward and
do the State and Tunnel an injury, by making this demand, and
having the refusal, shutting off these people by the inexorable force
of a positive statute. I think it should be left so that the Governor
and Council, upon this refusal, can enforce that provision. We shall
ask them to do it as soon as the new road is built.
This bill simply gives us authority " to purchase, construct and
operate" our "road, under the laws of this Commonwealth." That
is all we want. Just such powers as all railroad corporations have
under the general laws of this State, but which we cannot get with¬
out special legislation, as we run through two States. We have put
in the restrictive clause, that it shall be under the provisions of the
General Statutes, and subject to all the general laws applicable to
railroads, so that there can be no question of State control over us.
All we ask is, that we may be allowed to stand precisely as any
other corporation stands.
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
189
Can the State refuse ?
Can the State afford, to-day, to neglect this chance of having the
Tunnel used? I think we can come together. I think we can sit
down and see if these legal points are not covered as carefully as
they were in the Southern Vermont Act, at least. At any rate, we
cannot deal with them; we cannot spend our money without this
authority. If you will give us the authority to deal with them, we
may deal with them.
No more Money for the Tunnel.
I should like to have it proclaimed, and placed upon the records
of the Commonwealth, that no more money should be expended on
the Troy & Greenfield Railroad or the Hoosac Tunnel, by the State ;
that every road running through it should, at least, pay its propor¬
tion of the cost of the maintenance of the road, and that all parties
coming to it should have the absolute right to go over it. I should
like, I sajT, to see that principle established by a general law. But
the State may wish to allow each foreign railroad to come by special
charter for obvious reasons. A general law might work greater
injuty, and no State would thus open her doors to everybody in
advance.
Terminal Facilities.
But the terminal facilities,—what can we do without these?
Why, this road that comes from the West is the one that has got
to provide for them. How is it in Baltimore and Philadelphia, and
still more, in New York? Who constructs the Bergen Tunnel and
Long Dock? Who builds another tunnel for a double track? Why
are those things supplied? Because they are necessary for New
York interests, and no road without an immense mileage behind it
can supply them and keep them in proper condition.
This is Boston''s opportunity.
Boston is a great deal bigger than we think. Her possibilities
are grander than we estimate them. We have great opportunities
to-day. Opportunities never come twice. Let me beg you to regard
railroads as you do men. Opportunities never come but once. This
is our opportunitjr. We have opened the Tunnel as the best possible
line to the West. The Fitchburg Railroad will not develop it. Can
you believe these men for whom I am acting? I say you can,
because they have said it over their own hands, and if they do not
do a certain portion of the work in one year, even before your Legis¬
lature meet again, they lose all rights under this charter. You
could not have anything stronger. Will you not let us avail of this
190
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar
opportunity? Will you not open the door? nay, will j^ou not invite
us, " Come, build your road ! Everything is open to you." So you
might say to my friends of the Massachusetts Central Railroad,
" You may build your road on the same terms." When my brother
Stone, who has not got even a continuous line of earth, comes in
here and says: " We will create something, and we want the
privilege of using the Tunnel," I would leave the door open to
him, because I think it is possible; but I do not think it is probable
enough to interfere with any use we or anybody "may make of the
Tunnel, now or hereafter. I think, practically, the Tunnel should
be kept open to all; but as to keeping it clear on the ground that
the Massachusetts Central is to be provided for, it is a farce.
It is just as farcical to suppose that the Poughkeepsie Bridge, or the
bridge below Alban}7, is going to be built and furnish freight for the
Tunnel line. Do not let yourselves.be deceived by anything of the
kind. Business is business. If you want to load steamers to-day
in Boston, it has got to be done by a line of railroad starting from the
West.
Boston Railroads. Where Do They Run To 9
Mr. Garrett says : "The only peculiarity about Boston is, I have
never been able to find out where your railroads went to. If you
have a railroad that comes mto Boston, that satisfies your people.
There is the Eastern Railroad. But where does it go to? There is
the Boston & Maine," says he, " I never knew where it went to. It
comes into Boston. There is the Fitchburg, connecting with a good
many roads up in Vermont and New Hampshire. It comes into
Boston, but where does it go to? There is the Boston & Albany,
which ends at Albanj7. I have often thought, if I owned that road
and was situated as they were in relation to the Mohawk Valley, I
would go to Lake Ontario. They were content to go to Albany.
The Old Colony, in the same wa}7, spreads itself out over a great
territorj7, and furnishes a great deal of accommodation. But }7our
railroad lines lack persistence and point."
What the Times Demand.
It is the concentration of business, energy, brains and capital that
in this day and in this generation produces results; and we have
waited and waited, and quietly sat down with folded hands and allowed
our strength to be scattered, and our substance to be wasted. And in
a hearing like this, when we come and ask what we have asked for in
our bill, we are met b}7 the question " whether the Troy & Greenfield
Railroad should be redeemed upon the pa}Tment of a certain sum ";
whether we should, not wait until my friend Stone's road is com¬
pleted ; whether the " Poughkeepsie Bridge is not a better institu-
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201
191
tion " ; and, lastty, our friend from Albany comes here and saj's if it
was not for his bridge you could not get over at all, and you are just
as well off with the Troy & Boston; jou are just as well off as you
can be. I do not believe them. We have started in thorough earn¬
est, determined to make progress. I tell you, we can do it. We
will not injure anybody, but help everybody; and by and by, those
who oppose us to-day will "rise up and call us blessed,"—soon
they will take hold and help us. We do not ask your money; we
do not ask your pledges ; we only ask your permission. Surround
that permission with all the safeguards you please; protect the
State and the people, but, under pretence of such protection, do not
ruin both.
We Demand Recognition.
Remember, we absolutely demand legislation and state recognition.
We are a foreign corporation, and cannot run a car in the State
without a special permit, a special charter, such as we here have
drawn. Do not put us off another year. We can open for you a
new line to the West before you again assemble here next January.
Will you prohibit us in the selfish interests of railroad corporations
who are refusing to do this work themselves? Will you throw away
this more than golden opportunity? Can you, dare you, go back
to your constituents, bearing in one hand a new tax levied for the
Tunnel and in the other a refusal to these citizens of Boston to use
it? You may put your own terms, your own restrictions on the
bill, frame our charters as you will, but you dare not, in justice,
refuse or delay the use of the Tunnel to even those who pretend to
desire to use it.
I close, by presenting our bill in the following form, as perfected
by these hearings :—
An Act to authorize the Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Rail¬
way of New York to operate a Through Line of Road from Boston
to Lake Ontario, using the Troy and Greenfield Railroad and
Hoosac Tunnel.
Be it enacted, &c., as follows:
Sect. 1. The Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway, a corpo¬
ration organized under the laws of the state of New York for the purpose
of constructing, maintaining and operating a continuous line of railroad
from the Troy and Greenfield Railroad, at the boundary line between the
states of Vermont and New York, through the Mohawk Valley to Lake
Ontario, is hereby authorized and empowered to lease, purchase, con¬
struct, and maintain and operate, under the provisions of the laws of this
Commonwealth, a railroad or railroads in the state of Massachusetts,
from a connection with the Troy and Greenfield Railroad, near Green¬
field, eastward to and through the city of Boston, so as to form and per-
192 TIIE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
feet, with their own railroad, in the state of New York, a continuous
line of railroad from Lake Ontario through the Hoosac Tunnel and over
the Troy and Greenfield Railroad to tide-water in the city of Boston.
Sect. 2. Said Boston, Iloosac Tunnel and Western Railway are
authorized to enter upon and use the Troy and Greenfield Railroad and
Hoosac Tunnel, and to transport with their locomotives and cars freight
and passengers oyer and upon said railroad and through said tunnel, and
for this purpose to use the tracks, depots, side-tracks, turn-tables, water-
tanks and all appliances and fixtures belonging to said railroad or to the
state of Massachusetts on the line of said railroad. Said use of road and
rights to extend from the terminus of said railroad, in the town of Green¬
field, through said tunnel and to the boundary line of the states of Mas¬
sachusetts and Vermont, and also through the state of Vermont to the
boundary line of the states of Vermont and New York, including that
portion of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad in the state of Vermont,
formerly known as the Southern Vermont Railroad, now conveyed to the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts; and, whereas, a corporation known
as the Troy and Boston Railroad Company, established under the laws of
the state of New York, claim to hold a lease of that portion of the Troy
and Greenfield Railroad in the state of Vermont, by the terms of which
they are required to pay an annual rental to this Commonwealth as the
owner of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad ; and whereas this Common¬
wealth has heretofore purchased said portion of the Tro}T and Greenfield
Railroad at an expense of two hundred thousand dollars; and whereas
said portion of said Troy and Greenfield Railroad in the state of Ver¬
mont is deemed to be of great importance and value as affording the
only access to that portion of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad lying in
the state of Massachusetts and to the Hoosac Tunnel to and from the
state of New York; now, for the purpose of securing free access of all
parties to said Troy and Greenfield Railroad and said Hoosac Tunnel, the
said Troy and Boston Railroad arc hereby permitted to surrender and
cancel said lease, and thereupon said corporation shall be released and
discharged from all obligations under the terms of said lease, and there¬
after said portion of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad in the state ot
Vermont shall be open to the use. of said Troy and Boston Railroad, and
to all other railroads that may be authorized to use the same, on the same
terms and conditions and upon the payment of the rates of toll per mile
as may be fixed for other portions of the said Troy and Greenfield Rail¬
road.
Sect. 3. If said Troy and Boston Railroad Company shall decline
and refuse to surrender and cancel said lease, and shall refuse to permit
the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to authorize all connecting rail¬
roads to use said Troy and Greenfield Railroad in the state of Vermont
for the purpose of connecting with and using the Troy and Greenfield
Railroad and Iloosac Tunnel in the state of Massachusetts, then, and
from the time they shall so refuse, and so long as they shall so refuse,
said Troy and Boston Railroad may be prohibited by the governor and
council from using any portion of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad in
the state of Massachusetts; and in the event of such refusal by said
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
193
Troy and Boston Railroad Company, the consent of this Commonwealth
is hereby given to said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway, and
they are permitted, subject to the laws of the state of Vermont, and
under a proper corporate organization in the state of Vermont, to enter
upon and use and locate, construct and maintain a railroad upon the
rights of way and railroad lands of said Troy and Greenfield Railroad in
the state of Vermont, or upon any part or portion of the same as may be
necessary to construct another railroad to reach the Troy and Greenfield
Railroad and Hoosac Tunnel, and all said lands and real estate are
granted as a free gift and without compensation: provided, however,
when said road shall have been so constructed by said Boston, Hoosac
Tunnel and Western Railway over and upon the said lands and rights of
way, all railroads authorized to use the Troy and Greenfield Railroad
and Hoosac Tunnel, under the laws of Massachusetts, shall be authorized
to use said railroad so constructed in the state of Vermont, upon the pay¬
ment by such parties of their proportionate part of the cost of construc¬
tion of said railroad and its maintenance, in proportion to their use of
the same; such proportion to be determined by the governor and coun¬
cil, in case of disagreement.
Sect. 4. The Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway Company
shall bear their proportion of the maintenance of the Troy and Green¬
field Railroad and the Hoosac Tunnel, and pay for the use of the same
five mills per ton per mile for freight, and five mills per mile per passen¬
ger for each ton of freight and each passenger transported by them over
said road; and whenever, in any one year, the aggregate number of tons
of freight and of passengers transported by them over said road exceeds
one hundred thousand, they shall pay four mills per ton and per passen¬
ger for all the tons and passengers carried in that year; and whenever
the aggregate number of tons and passengers in any one year exceeds
three hundred thousand, they shall pay three and one-half mills per ton
and per passenger; and whenever in any one year the aggregate num¬
ber exceeds six hundred thousand, they shall pay three mills per ton and
per passenger; and whenever the aggregate number in anyone year
exceeds one million, they shall pay two and one-half mills per ton and
per passenger; and whenever the aggregate number in any one year
exceeds two millions, they shall pay two mills per ton and per passenger,
for the same. These rates shall be only for through freight and passen¬
gers, but rates for local freight and passengers shall be from time to time
fixed by the governor and council.
Sect. 5. Said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway shall con¬
struct, or cause to be constructed and opened for use, a continuous line of
railroad from and connecting with the Troy and Greenfield Railroad, at
the Vermont and New York state line, to Schenectady, in the state of
New York, and complete a connection with the Erie Railway within one
year, and from Schenectady to Lake Ontario within the time limited for
the construction of railroads by the laws of the state of New York ; and,
if not so constructed, all right under this act shall cease and determine.
Sect. 6. Whenever the said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Rail¬
way shall have completed its line to Schenectady from the Troy and
25
194
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE
[Mar.
Greenfield Railroad, it shall have the right to run its freight and passen¬
ger trains and cars through the tunnel, and over the Troy and Greenfield
Railroad, and thereafter all roads using the Troy and Greenfield Railroad
and Iloosac Tunnel shall maintain said railroad, and keep the same in re¬
pair and in proper condition for use, and thereafter shall make all per¬
manent improvements upon the same, shall lay any and all side-tracks,
build and maintain any and all double tracks that the governor and coun¬
cil shall determine are required upon the line of said railroad and
through said tunnel, and shall construct and maintain any and all depots,
engine-houses, water-tanks, turn-tables and all fixtures required upon
said road an.d tunnel; and all parties authorized to use said road and
tunnel shall, before using the same, pay their ratable proportions of the
cost of all such expenditures, and likewise pay such ratable proportion of
the cost of maintaining said road and tunnel as their use bears to the
whole use of the same. All such proportions to be determined by the
governor and council, and to be binding upon all parties using the same.
Sect. 7. The Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway shall keep
and maintain the general offices of the said company in the city of Bos¬
ton. The lieutenant-governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
for the time being, and the president of the board of trade of the city of
Boston for the time being, shall be ex officio directors of said corporation,
and a majority of the board of directors shall at all times be citizens of
this Commonwealth, and annual returns of its business shall be made as
prescribed by the statutes of this Commonwealth. And said corporation
shall have all the powers and privileges, and be subject to all the duties
and liabilities, set forth in chapter sixty-three of the General Statutes and
all general laws that now are or may be hereafter in force relating to
railroad corporations.
Sect. 8. The rights and privileges granted to the Boston, Hoosac Tun¬
nel and Western Railway, under the provisions of this act, shall not be
exclusive, and shall not be deemed to give in any form an exclusive use
of the Troy and Greenfield Railroad and the Hoosac Tunnel to said cor¬
poration ; but any and all railroads may be authorized to enter upon and
use said Troy and Greenfield Railroad and said Hoosac Tunnel under like
authority of this Commonwealth; but if at anytime any corporation or
individual shall be authorized to use the same or any portion thereof on
more favorable terms or rates of toll than those provided for the Boston,
Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway by this act, then this corporation
shall be entitled to use the same on the most favorable terms granted to
any other party: provided, all corporations and parties using the same,
and the general management and control of the said railroad and tunnel
as to the time and manner of use, shall be at all times under the direction
and supervision of the Commonwealth: provided, however, the rates of
toll fixed by this act and the duties, obligations and requirements made
incumbent upon said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway .Com¬
pany shall not be increased without the consent of said Boston, Hoosac
Tunnel and Western Railway Company first given thereto.
Sect. 9. The grants by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to the
Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway in this act contained, shall
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
195
not be, and shall not be deemed and construed to be, guarantees, but
shall be deemed and construed to convey to said Boston, Hoosac Tunnel
and Western Railway only such rights as the Commonwealth has or may
have in the premises; and said grants shall be subject to the rights of all
parties therein.
Sect. 10. The Fitchburg Railroad Company and the Vermont and
Massachusetts Railroad Company shall not, in making contracts or in
operating their roads, discriminate in any manner, directly or indirectly,
against the freight and passengers of the Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and
Western Railway, or freight and passengers coming from the connecting
lines of said road, or from roads forming parts of a competing line
from Boston over the Erie Railway to the west and south-west; but the
Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway shall have the right to have
their own freight and passengers, and all freight and passengers coming
over their line from connecting roads, transported with close connections,
and in through cars, on the most favorable terms and at the most favor¬
able rates that may at any time be given to any other parties.
Sect. 11. When the Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railway has
completed its line to Schenectady, it shall receive and transport all
through connecting freight and passengers to and from the New York
Central and Hudson River Railroad, and the Delaware and Hudson Com¬
pany's railroads, and the Erie Railway and connecting railroads, and to
and from any railroads that may hereafter be constructed and connected
on equal terms and conditions without unjust discrimination or advantage
to any party; and the Massachusetts Central Railroad shall, when com¬
pleted to a connection with the Troy and Greenfield Railroad, have the
same rights and rates of toll over said Troy and Greenfield Railroad and
through said tunnel, under the same limitations and restrictions as are by
this act prescribed for the Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western Railroad ;
and they shall be entitled to have all their through connecting freight
and passengers transported over the Boston, Hoosac Tunnel and Western
Railroad in the state of New York, at the most favorable rates and on
the most favorable terms granted to any other railroad.
The Chairman. The hearing on this petition is now closed."
TESTIMONY
of
Gr. R. BL AN CHARD, Esq.,
ASSISTANT RECEIVER OF THE ERIE RAILWAY,
BEFORE THE HOOSAC TUNNEL AND TROY & GREENFIELD
RAILROAD COMMITTEE.
»
March 13, 18 7 7.
BOSTON:
ALBERT J. WRIGHT, STATE PRINTER,
79 Milk Street (corner of Federal).
1877.
198 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
FIFTH HEARING.
Tuesday, March 13, 1877.
«
The Committee met at 10 o'clock, Senator Bowman in the chair,
who stated that the Committee were ready to proceed.
Mr. Burt. Mr. Blanchard of the Erie Railroad is present, and I
should like to have him occupy the time for about an hour.
Q. (By Mr. Burt.) How long have you been connected with
the management of the Erie Railroad Company ?
A. Since four years ago the first of October.
Q. Previous to then, what was your position?
A. I was in charge of the freight business of the Baltimore &
Ohio Railroad for six years at Baltimore, and two years in the West
with the same interest, making eight years in all.
Q, What length of line, or of road, has the New York & Erie
Railway to-day within its control?
A. About 9G0 miles.
Q. That reaches the principal cities of the West?
A. That reaches, so far as the road proper is concerned, Dun¬
kirk, Buffalo, Cleveland and Suspension Bridge, and via those
points all the cities reached by the connecting roads of the New
York Central, as well as our own lines, and also reaches, via Sala¬
manca, points the New York Central does not reach.
Q. Will you state to the Committee, in a short way, the tonnage
of your road during the past year, as compared, say, with the New
York Central?
A. I cannot tell readily the tonnage of the Erie Railway Corn-
pan}7 ; but in round numbers it was six millions of tons against six
and three-quarters millions by the New York Central. If Gen. Burt
will permit me to go on and make some general statements in my
own way, I shall be glad to do so, and answer his questions after¬
ward.
Mr. Burt. Take your own way. You had your attention called
to this line, to Boston and its New England connections. State, in
your own way, the position of the Erie road wTith reference to this
matter, and what you desire?
Mr. Blanchard. I want, first, to express my obligations to you,
Mr. Chairman, and the members of the Committee, for your kindness
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
199
in postponing the hearing until to-da}T, in order that the interests I
am here to represent might be heard. Our absence before has been
unavoidable.
As the Erie Railway, both in itself and its far-reaching connec¬
tions and traffic abilities, seems insufficientl}7 known in New Eng¬
land, in its practical carrying resources, I am glad to be called
before gentlemen who are intelligent, and who are making it their
business to apprise themselves, and, through them, the cultivated
constituency of the State, of the relations and bearings of this ques¬
tion, and to explain the business and the connections of the com¬
pany. There is not, to-day, upon the face of the earth, as great a
practical railway, or transportation-monopoly of ahy kind, as that
which is now enjoj^ed by one of the four trunk lines (the New
York Central Company) to and from the great West and the States
comprising New England, whether considered in the volume of its
all-rail traffic, the regularity of its movement, or the value of its
imports and shipments. To endeavor to get an alternate outlet
and inlet for that traffic, and thus secure what advantages might
result from competition, it is my understanding, from a cursory
reading of the legislation which has been enacted regarding the
Hoosac Tunnel and the state railways, that it was the purpose, of
the Commonwealth to complete and secure a competing line from
the city of Boston and intermediate points, to and from the consuming
and producing West, over the whole distance.
So far as the State itself is concerned, it has now entered into
competition with its own citizens, and with their capital and enter¬
prises by the completion of a line to the western limit of the State
and for the purpose of connecting its great works with the rival
lines west of the Hudson River. There are two rival lines, the New
York Central and the Erie routes, ready to do this business reaching
to and from all points in the West. Intermediate between these
rival works of the State and the two rival routes west of them,
lies but one line of railroad which, so far, has not been brought
into such relations with the Erie and the Delaware & Hudson Canal
Company's joint S}Tstems as to enable them to develop the tonnage
which they stand ready to develop in both directions.
As to the extent of the system reached by and through their
joint systems, and their ability to cope with our friends of the New
York Central, we say, first, that they desire to enter into active and
efficient, but just, honorable and fair competition for this vast busi¬
ness. We are not here to make any extravagant promises as to
what we will do; but we believe that our interests, and those of
Massachusetts, alike require this mutual and untrammelled channel
and means for the interchange of business. If it shall be said by
200
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
anybody that the Erie Railway Company cannot do the business,
and that it has not or cannot provide the facilities for doing it,
I only point to the fact that by the last annual reports of the Dela¬
ware & Hudson and the Erie companies, which I represent to¬
day, their aggregate tonnage west of the Hudson River exceeded
the whole tonnage of the New York Central by one and a quarter
million tons during last year, and a much greater excess taking
the Hudson River as a dividing line for the Central. As to our
ability to cope with it in point of distance, I wish to say that the
New York Central from Buffalo to New York is 22 miles longer
than the Erie. The New York Central seems to have no diffi¬
culty in successfully competing for the business between Cincin¬
nati and New York, although it presents a very much longer route
for the freight business than that via the Pennsylvania. It also
runs through passenger cars, and does everything practicable to
secure that business. In addition to these facts, as to and from
New York proper, the New York Central has announced its ability
to carry property from Cincinnati to New York, a distance of 302
miles greater than the distance from Cincinnati to Baltimore, at
a price which is equal to the price which is charged from Cincin¬
nati to Baltimore. If it be true that its line, so much longer
and more circuitous, can compete successfully, as it is doing to-day
(and as the Erie Railway Company is doing in conjunction with it
to-day), for the business of the West to and via New York, I think
that the argument that we are from 30 to 50 miles longer than the
Central, via Binghamton to the West, is hardly worth}7 of discussion,
and should not be presented by any one in its interest. I under¬
stand, too, that the citizens of Boston desire, expect and believe that
foreign freights can and should be sent via Boston as cheap as via
Baltimore and Philadelphia, ignoring the differences of distance. If
you ask a disparity of 100 to 400 miles ignored on this traffic, one of
from 30 to 50 miles cannot be worthy your adverse consideration.
If the Grand Trunk, with 150 miles in excess of the distance via
Albany, is able to bring into Boston 80 per cent, of the live-stock
of Chicago, I can see no reason why the Erie Company, 100 miles
shorter than the Grand Trunk line, cannot bring you a fair share
of that and all other business.
I might multiply these examples, but have taken only the most
salient and striking ones. I have prepared hurriedly upon this sub¬
ject, a very brief statement covering a few points of the differences of
distances, which I have more generally referred to. The New York
Central road is longer by 123 miles from Cincinnati to New York
than is the Pennsylvania. It is longer by 31 miles than is the Erie
road ; still it does the Cincinnati business successfully. From Chi-
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
201
cago to New York the New York Central line is longer than the
Pennsylvania route by 80 miles, and longer than the Erie road by
25 miles. It is the established railroad policy of the country that
short lines shall make the rates, and longer lines may or may
not carry the property at those prices as they shall elect. I trust
that nothing further is needed in the matter of distances with the
Committee to demonstrate the fact that we stand ready to do this
business, and do it successfully.
Now, as to the business which the Erie Company seeks to bring to
New England. We have on our line, together with the Delaware
& Hudson Company, an aggregate of coal transportation of the
last year of more than five millions of tons. What proportion of
that may 'come to New England, how much it may be increased,
what can be done to develop its tendency in this direction, and how
much we can do to cheapen your fuel, are all questions which I
understand are peculiarly within the province of your Committee.
Looking not only at the coal trade, in addition to that tonnage we
have upon our line,—at a shorter distance than by the New York
Central by more than 50 miles, and nearer the seaboard than the
older oil-producing country by more than that,—a production of two
or three thousand barrels of petroleum per day, and the quantity
increases monthly. That business desires an outlet to New Eng¬
land which we have not been able to give it, and you get none of
it via any route.
We have also upon and via our line a live-stock trade which, with
the completion of the third rail to Waverley, will enable us to estab¬
lish live-stock yards at Binghamton, from which animals could be
sent to the Albany, Boston, Philadelphia, or New York markets,
and we are thus the only one of the trunk lines which could offer
that choice to those who desire to ship their stock by rail. When
such a choice and variety of markets could be offered, it is reasona¬
ble to presume we could give you as much transportation of animals
as any other line, if not more.
In addition to these articles, we have the local leather, grain,
lumber and other tonnages on our road, which seeks an outlet in
this direction, and which at present goes via New York to but a
limited number of New England points.
Now, it may be said that even if we have or can secure this large
amount of tonnage, what are our connections, by which we can
develop them and a Western business ? I answer, that we have every
Western rail-connecting line that the New York Central has, and one
more,—the Atlantic & Great Western Railway. By these lines we
reach every point that the New York Central reaches, and many that
it does not, always excepting those upon the line of its own road.
26
202
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
In addition to these inlets and outlets, we have a fleet of steamers
on the great Lakes, with twice the carrying capacity of tliq fleet run¬
ning to and from the New York Central.
It would be strange if, with all the connections which they have,
and with one other which they have not, and with a fleet of steamers
double the capacity of theirs, we could not bring at least a volume
of business to New England which would be not only worthy of
your attention, but your strenuous efforts to secure. , That, so far
as the freight business is concerned.
Now as to the passenger business, precisely the same relationship
prevails. I refer again to the increased distance over which the New
York Central runs. It runs competing passenger trains and sleep¬
ing coaches between New York and Cincinnati, Louisville, Indian¬
apolis, and St. Louis, on distances varying from 80 to 120 miles
longer than the short routes, and on differences of time varying
from 5 to 11 hours. With such marked disparities against it on
that traffic, how can it cause representations to be presented to your
Committee, with any degree of fairness, that we cannot overcome
differences of 30 to 50 miles, and from one to two hours of time,
with more certainty and success. It may then be asked, Why
have you not before attempted to get an inlet and outlet with New
England? I reply that, in cooperation with the enlightened policy
of the State of Massachusetts, the Erie Railway Company at¬
tempted, under former administrations, to seek, by the Boston,
Hartford & Erie .Railroad, one of its proposed connections and
outlets.
The history of that enterprise is better known to many of you than
it is to me, as I was not connected with the Erie Railway Company
at that time. It may, however, be safely assumed that the State
did not lend its credit and influence to that route, which was longer
in comparative distance than the one now under discussion to most
Western points, until, and unless its able governors and advisers
were at the time amply convinced of both the carrying and compet¬
ing abilities of the Erie and its connections. Since then, the diffi¬
culties which have laid in the way of doing the Western business to
the satisfaction of forwarders and receivers of New England have
been of a physical character, and such as we could not promise to
absolutely overcome until recently. They were, the exceptional
gauge of the Erie Railway, which, being six feet, while the connec¬
tions are four feet eight and one-half inches, required to enter into
competition for this business with a delaying and expensive transfer
at Buffalo, and another at Binghamton. About a year since, the
Delaware & Hudson Company, as lessees of the Albany & Susque¬
hanna road, narrowed the former wide gauge of that road to the
1877.] HOUSE—No. 201. 203
standard gauge of the country, of four feet eight and one-half
inches.
Shortly after that time, the Erie Company, under contract with
the Lehigh Yalley Company, laid a third line from Waverley to
Buffalo, a distance of 170 miles, and further extended it to connect
with all the Canada roads, via both routes that cross the Niagara
River at the International and Suspension bridges, giving us a
narrow-gauge line of 200 miles. This track has been laid in the
midst of the greatest financial and transportation depression that
this country has seen for years, which seems proof enough of the
vitality of the Erie Railway as a competing route, and of its ability
to deal with this business if it can find the necessary and harmonious
connections through the Tunnel. When it was found that the alter¬
ing of the two gauges, as stated, had brought the narrow-gauge
system of the entire West within forty miles of uninterrupted com¬
munication with you, out attention was naturally again drawn to the
vast traffic of New England, the thought and fact being if that
forty miles could be provided with a corresponding narrow-gauge
line, we would be able to transport all kinds of property,—oil from
the wells, live-stock from their grazing-grounds, provisions from the
packing-houses, and coal from the mines, — and deliver them all
to your citizens at their homes and marts in New England, and
take their manufactures in return, by alternate complete narrow-
gauge lines between you and the West, which would accomplish the
purposes which the State has long and wisely had in view, and
labored and spent millions and years to secure. At the time that
this matter presented itself anew, and thus definitel}T to our minds,
a discussion was had with our receiver upon the question (the road
having two years ago passed into the control of the courts) ; and in
passing through Boston, some nine or ten months since, I had the
pleasure of an informal conference with the president of the Fitch-
burg Railroad Companj^, who, in the fair spirit in which he has here¬
tofore met the questions presented to him by the Erie Railway Com¬
pany, or to anybody in connection or absolute interest with his
road, entertained the proposition promptlj7, and stated that he would
be glad to have the representatives of the united companies west of
the Hudson River pass over his line, and see if mutual arrange¬
ments were desirable and could be made for the benefit of the trade
and of all parties concerned.
His questions were then mainly directed to our ability to form
this physical connection, and as to the difficulties which might arise
from the exceptional gauge still existing between Waverley and
Binghamton, over the forty miles. Being unable personally to
pledge a change of that gauge between those points, I returned to
204 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
New York, and in discussion with our receiver, was authorized by
him subsequently to say, that within thirty days from the time when
any such arrangement could be made as would give us the inlet and
outlet to New England upon equal, fair, and permanent terms to
justify, that rail should be provided and the gauge so narrowed, and
under orders of the court, could and should be laid. That assurance
removed the last possible objection that could be made by transport¬
ers, or by any one who desired to compete with existing routes, for
the accomplishment of which purpose }'Our grand old Commonwealth
had for fifteen years labored with its best brain, and for which she
had expended $15,000,000. After farther conference with the Fitch-
burg Company, a trip was arranged and made for the furtherance of
this undertaking and purpose. Mr. Pullman, whose name is well
known to you all, Mr. Dickson, the president of the Delaware &
Hudson Compan}r, and myself, with other officers of the companies
interested, and constituting a positively authorized representation—
and I will use the term authorized advisedly—of all the traffic
departments of the united lines west of the Hudson River, came
east and looked over the ground carefully, via the Tunnel. We
were unfortunate in not having the cooperation in our efforts at that
time of any of the officers of the Troy & Boston road, who were
unexpectedly called away on other business. To say that we were
gratified at the extent of their terminal facilities which were pre¬
sented to our attention by the Fitchburg officers, at the excellence
of the roadway and superstructure, the comprehensive advantages
possessed by the Fitchburg road to receive, deliver and forward
your merchandise, is only to do justice to the management and
prevision of that company. In the completeness of its stock-yards ;
in the facility of access to the different streets of Boston; in the
neutral fairness of its management, and the tone that pervaded
every discussion of its policy that we had with them, we had noth¬
ing left to ask or fear if continued. The president of the Fitch¬
burg Company was kind enough to take the company of gentle¬
men, and return with them to Troy, where, after a discussion with
our friends of the Troy & Boston road, the main facts I have now
presented and will present,—and there are those in the room who
can verify them, if desired,—were stated to them, to which we re¬
ceived for answer, that at the excessively low rates then prevailing,
there was nothing in the situation to justify the opening of an
additional line between the West and New England; that had the
New York Central Company offered the formation of this Hoosac
line at the low rates then prevailing, the Troy & Boston Company
would have declined to enter into the negotiations, or the line. It
was understood by us at that time, that on the advancement of the
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
205
rates, and the cessation of the railroad war then prevailing, the Erie
Company and the Delaware & Hudson Company would hear from
the united line east of Troy as to its future policy, and I left with
the expectation that we would soon be able to utilize the route
between the West and Boston harmoniously with all interests. The
railroad war ceased, as is generallj7 known, early in December.
Prior and subsequent to that, however, the rates which had ruled
as low as twent}^ cents per hundred pounds, from Chicago to New
York and Boston, were advanced to thirty, and thirty-five, and later
to forty cents; but no advices were conveyed to the Erie Railway
Company, direct^ or indirectly, by the Troy & Boston Company,
that its line was then, or could be at any time, prepared to receive
the business from us, which in the October previous it had declined
and delayed, ostensibly for the reasons stated.
Still desiring to get this connection, we opened a renewed corre¬
spondence with the Fitchburg Company to ascertain if in the altered
relations and status of the matter, the rates, etc., we could get such
a line as we desired ; and in justice to our friends of the Fitchburg
Company, I read the response of the president of that road :—
President's Office, Fitchburg Railroad, )
Boston, Mass., March 1, 1877. >
G. R. Blanchard, Esq., Erie Railroad Company, New York.
Dear Sir:—Your letter, under date 24th inst., is at hand, and contents
noted.
I am perfectly willing that your company should have the same rates
as any other does over the lines which we control; and at the next meet¬
ing of our board of directors will have this officially confirmed.
Mr. Robinson will be here in a few davs, and I doubt not he will be
•/ 1
willing to make a similar agreement.
I am yours truly,
(Signed) Wm. B. Stearns, President.
That, however, brought us a pledge only so far as the com¬
panies under the control of Mr. Stearns were concerned, although
he expressed a belief in the like policy of the Troy & Boston Com¬
pany, which its acts and testimon}' before your Committee have not
only not sustained, but which he has antagonized. The Erie Com¬
pany then asked Mr. Stearns whether or not that letter covered the
whole line from Troy to the termini of his roads, or whether it would
require independent or other negotiations with the Troy & Boston
road. He replied that Mr. Robinson, of the Troy & Boston, under¬
stood that a contract had been made with the Delaware & Hudson
Company which might be construed by the Troy & Boston Company
to cover that business, although he did not so construe it. Upon
returning to New York, I saw the president of the Delaware &
\
206 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
Hudson Company, and stated to him the information which I had
learned in Boston just repeated, and asked him if it was his under¬
standing that his proposed contract would cover our through busi¬
ness. lie stated that, although neither the Fitchburg road nor his
own company had provided in the proposed contract for any mini¬
mum rates, when the contract reached the Troy & Boston road, it
was at once stipulated by the latter that no property should pass
over its line at a less rate than one cent per ton per mile to or from
the Delaware & Hudson. It was, however, his belief and assurance
that this applied solely to business originating upon the lines of the
Delaware & Hudson Company.
Mr. Dickson has reiterated this belief and these facts to me in his
office, during the past week, confirming Mr. Stearns in that regard.
Contrary to both these beliefs, it is now stated to us that the vice-
president of the Troy & Boston road understands that this minimum
does apply not only to the business orginating and terminating upon
the lines of the Delaware & Hudson Companjq and other parties to
the contract, as Mr. Stearns and Mr. Dickson both understood, but
is made to apply, sweepingly and unexpectedly, to all business
which comes via that line, thus barring us out of the traffic.
Now, I have only been able to arrive, in the most cursory way, and
after the most hurried reading, at some of the testimony which has
been offered before'your Committee. What we have asked, what we
we think we had a right to ask, what we think the State reserved
the right and should feel it a duty to ask and provide for us, what
the Fitchburg Railroad Company conceded promptly, what we think
every merchant of the State had a right to ask and insist upon, was,
that the lines from Troy eastward put, so far as connections west¬
ward were concerned, the Erie route upon precisely the same terms
as any other most favored, not only in fact arid act, but in spirit
and cooperation. If the Erie Railway Company and the Delaware
& Hudson Company, through any physical or financial infirmities,
any difficulties of grade, distance, or anything else, then fail to
deliver and take the property which requires their services for its
transportation, that is a matter for us, but not for our rivals, to
regret. I am, therefore, disposed to doubt the accuracy of testimony
reported to me as given here, that any gentleman comes before the
Committee and saj^s that the same offers have been made to both
lines, and then proceeds in the next words of his argument to main¬
tain that we cannot give them any business ! We hardly think that
is what the Committee are here to concede, if he does.
Either we have or have not facilities, and can or cannot secure a
fair share of this great business. If we have the abilityr, and can
secure the business, I point to your state legislation and policy—
1877.] , HOUSE—No. 201.
207
and the fact stated by the gentleman himself, that he has offered us
in the past what he then believed us entitled to—to prove that we
are entitled to equal rates, time, facilities, and treatment from the
Troy & Boston Company and all its eastern connections, and ask
in default of receiving it, the State to enforce its and our mutual
rights in the premises. If, on the other hand, we have so man}' dis¬
advantages that we cannot handle or receive the business, what
harm can come to you, us, to them, to our rivals from giving these
rights to us ?
In either case, we are equally clearly entitled to them, so far as
we are concerned ; we have, and we know that we have (it is not a
matter of surmise with us, as with our critics),—we know that
we have transported during the last year, six millions of tons of
merchandise; within three-quarters of a million of tons of that
transported during the same time by the New York Central, with
its vast New England commerce.
We know that all these local resources exist within, of and by our¬
selves ; wTe know that the aggregate of our tonnage amounts to so
much, and all we have to ask, and all we do ask, is, that the State of
Massachusetts, and the citizens of New England generally, who are
reached by the way of the Tunnel, shall have the right to take this
property from or to Troy via our route if they desire, not with any
minimum rates interposed against any one line which is not applied
to all lines, but upon precisely the same terms, conditions and pro¬
visions, in every respect, that property is taken from or to the like
points of connection with any and all other lines. That I am here
to ask in the name of the Erie Bail way Company, and in the name
of the Delaware & Hudson Canal Company, and the public who
desire to use them; I am not here to go any further than that. I
am here to respectfully urge and insist upon that. I am not here
to ask any questions relating to the use of the Tunnel, or to urge
or demur to any disposition proposed by this bill towards the Fitch-
burg Bailroad. I am here to make the gentlemen of the Committee
acquainted, if practicable, with the resources which are outside of,
but knocking at your doors and asking to be admitted to your
towns through the now locked gates of Troy, and to expose, if I
can, the fallacies which keep them locked to us, or when we ask
for a key, give us one that will not fit or open them.
' Mr. Chairman: We understand, and we presume the Committee
equally comprehends, that as the New York Central Company now
enjoys the monopoly I have referred to, and is and will be jeal«
ous of its continuance, it will seek to inspire, and possibly has
already inspired, the opposition to our entrance to New England by
this or any other route, such policy, unwisely as we think, being
208
THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
regarded by it as to its interest. Is any more complete answer
required to the suggestion, that we cannot get or do New England
business?
They lenow we can. They meet us in actual rivalry at New York,
Buffalo, Rochester, and every point west of Buffalo, and they do not
underestimate or belittle our carrying ability; and if they did, the
facts stated and our relative tonnage would controvert them. In
this one regard, the testimony of their acts is more significant than
the comments of those to whom our through competing traffic is new
and comparatively unknown, or the result of but a year's experi¬
mental knowledge of but one route.
To perpetuate their almost exclusive access to this traffic, the Erie
Company has the light of its past rivalry with that great company
to point our surmises as to their probable course in this instance.
We have had parallel instances of opposition in the West, where they
and we both now • use in harmony the same lines. They have in
the West intimated a withdrawal of their traffic from certain lines in
certain contingencies, but in none of them have I ever known such a
course to be actually inaugurated. Although the New York Central
interests, policy and management have controlled the Lake Shore
road, and through it great tributary interests, they have wisely
refrained from any course of discrimination against our large traffic
over that road in either direction. If in its New England policy,
and to preserve its control, it has caused any gentleman present
to anticipate a withdrawal of its traffic from the Tunnel route, and
such fears discolor the native hues of their resolution, they should
be disregarded. Even anticipating in this direction a positive with¬
drawal, it is my belief that the routes I represent can promptly
replace every ton of freight so diverted, and if done, you would
have the veritable, absolute and continuous competition jon have
desired. No such contingency need be anticipated. Is it presuma¬
ble or probable that after contesting our entrance, because of the
value of the trade, it would voluntarily abandon it to its rivals,
and refer forwarders to us for cars, rates and facilities, or-that it
would cancel its contracts for the organization of the Hoosac Tun¬
nel line? If it did so, the cars of neutral connections could and
would be transferred to our line, we would replace those which
were withdrawn, traffic would go on uninterruptedly, and you would
be the gainers to that extent.
I wish to state one other view which seems in striking contrast to
the exclusive policies I have outlined and deprecated. The presi¬
dent and managers of the Erie Railway do not believe that policy
is wisest which shall undertake to exclude from this important
section of country any rival railroad interest. We are, there-
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201
209
fore, here to say at the outset, that, believing our interests lie
where the largest aggregate of tonnage is, if the secondary purposes
of this proposed line can be attained, by which the Pennsylvania
Company will come across to intersect us from its line, and the
Delaware & Hudson Company, also at or near Binghamton, using,
as* has been proposed, part of the Erie Company's line, we shall
welcome it and be glad to have it done, and be glad to have our
friends east of Hudson River united with us in this business upon
the equal terms upon which we shall ask to have it done for us.
We believe in the exercise of a wise, broad and liberal polic}7. We
believe that that policy is best for us and the State and its people
which unites and reconciles these lines; and we hope that nothing
will be done or permitted to be done, or left undone, to prevent the
consummation of that uniform result and policy.
I have stated this in my position as director in the Boston, Hoosac
Tunnel & Western Company, and nothing should be done on the
part of the State that will prevent it from welcoming all these rail¬
roads,—the Pennsylvania, the Delaware & Hudson, the Erie, or an}7
others that propose to come and deliver, or take your business.
Now, upon one or two other points relating to our ability to do
this business, I noticed, very much to my surprise, by the report of
the managers of the Hoosac Tunnel line, that there crossed the
Hudson River, last May, 19,000 tons of freight, and but 13,000 tons
in the month of December. In May, navigation was opened, and
much property may be supposed to have gone around it; but in
ten months they had reduced }7our tonnage 30 per cent., and the
statement of the west-bound business which is going through the
Hoosac Tunnel shows that you did less business in December, from
Boston, than you did in the previous March by the Hoosac Tunnel
Freight Line, and a great deal less than was done in the same
months hy the Erie Railway westward via New York, while we had
only Boston to draw from, and the Tunnel line, Boston and all the
inland points as well. Is this the great and growing freight line
which has been heralded and displayed as your commercial champion
and conserver?
Now, if anything else is needed to convince }7ou that the Erie
Railway Company can get and move New England business, it is
the fact that it is to-day taking property from Boston to Western
cities upon a line differing but a mile or two in length from that of
the Grand Trunk, which does a large share of jTour business; and
that after the Hoosac Tunnel had been open for seventeen months,
and the Hoosac Tunnel Freight Line had been in operation a year,
the Erie Railway business, upon a broken rail and water line,
requiring water transit by way of, and a transfer at, New York,
27
210 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
was much more than the whole of the Western business of the
Iloosac Tunnel Fast Freight Line.
Farther, upon the subject of the Iloosac Tunnel Fast Freight
Line, the facts, so far as these lines are concerned, are (as perhaps
the Committee may understand, and will pardon me for repeating),
that they are formed by an aggregation of the railway companies,
each compan}7 contributing according to the basis of its earnings,
or upon some other reason or policy, or from some other standpoint,
cars in certain numbers and proportions to the development of
a joint business between certain points. The Erie Railway Com¬
pany has running over its road to-day such fast freight lines, which
are the oldest of all the lines, and as large as any. It has recently
consolidated four of them into one, each of which had, at the time
of amalgamation, more cars in it than there were in the whole
Hoosac Tunnel line at the same time.
Now, there are in our one line north of the Lake an aggregate car
equipment of 4,000 cars. The Great Western Dispatch, a corre¬
sponding line on the south of Lake Erie, operates an equal number,
not all its own cars, but by bargain operates the cars of other com¬
panies. Those organizations are in full tide of success ; and b}7 the
friendship of their connections, and by their policies, for periods
ranging from four to fifteen years, they stand to-day not as experi¬
ments, not as new lines, not like the Hoosac Tunnel line,—but about
a year old, with its way to make through the Western connections,—
but with an absolutely secured business, their agents recognized
before the people as responsible, their bills of lading fulfilled, and
ready to solicit and give customar}7 transportation contracts, and
carr}7 on your business, and protect it to your satisfaction.
Now, if so much credit can be claimed for the Hoosac Tunnel
Freight Line, during a management of about a year, however effect¬
ive it ma}7 have been to satisfy its patrons, with so small an equip¬
ment-, why may not the Erie Railway Company present to }~ou, gen¬
tlemen, aggregated lines, with an age of from four to fifteen years,
with 8,000 cars, and state that those lines and companies, being
ready to enter into this competition and business, are prepared
to fetch and carry a great amount of traffic, which you may or may
not have had before? At all events, if you get business which any
one else has transported before, it will give you whatever advan¬
tages there may be in honorable, fair and energetic competition.
There is one other important view of this case. There are now
running via the New York Central and Boston & Albany route,
seven fast freight lines ; viz., the Merchants' Dispatch, the Red Line,
the White Line, the Blue Line, the International Line, the Canada
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
211
Southern Line, and the Milwaukee Line; and via the Tunnel but
one lonely line, the Hoosac Tunnel Line.
It is our purpose to reverse this disparity and discrimination,
and give to your Tunnel the business now under two which was
formerly under seven lines; viz., the Great Western Dispatch, the
South Shore Line, the Erie and Pacific Dispatch, the North Shore
Line, the Diamond Line, the Commercial Express, and the Erie and
Milwaukee Line.
In view of this fact, is it possible that, by such a reversal, the com¬
bination of our lines cannot give the Tunnel as much business as
its one newer line? The general manager of the Hoosac Tunnel
O O
line was formerly in a position on the Michigan Central where he
knew and could tell you that to and from the territory the Erie
lines had access to, over that road, we did more business over it than
did the New York Central, and in both directions.
There are one or two other points upon the general subject which
I wish to refer to, which relate principally to our passenger traffic.
At the interview in Troy about the 6th of last October, Vice-Pres¬
ident Robinson stated that the contract of the Troy & Boston road
with the Wagner Company had not then been consummated,
although terms had been pretty thoroughly discifssed.
We stated, Mr. Pullman for his own company, the representatives
of the Erie Company as to the precisely similar cases it had had in
the West, and the Delaware & Hudson Company for itself, that we
did not ask that the Troy & Boston road should decline to run
any cars that the New York Central offered ; and we were not there
to make any objection to whatever sleeping, smoking, baggage, pas¬
senger or freight cars the New York Central offered to or proposed
to receive from the Troy & Boston. We desired that the Troy &
Boston should continue to receive the latter, so far as anything
that we would have said might have affected this issue pro or con ;
but we then asked that their line should not be sealed against receiv¬
ing the cars which the Delaware & Hudson Compan}^ and the Erie
Company might at that time have contracts with, or might there¬
after contract with and offer to deliver to or receive from the Troy
& Boston Company upon precisely the same terms. We understand
that since then and quite recentty, a contract has been signed by the
Troy & Boston Company with the Wagner Sleeping Car Company by
which the latter is to have exclusive rights over that part of the line
between the Hoosac Tunnel and the Hudson River, notwithstand¬
ing the representations and protests which were made at Troy as
stated.
The statements which were made at that time, as to the ability of
the joint line to secure passenger business, referred not only to the
212 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
passenger traffic which might be received from or sent to the Erie
road west of Binghamton, but to that possibty equal traffic which
coul& be done to and through Scranton or Wilkesbarre and the
coal regions, for the newer commerce of that people with the people
of New England. We did not, at that interview, make any sugges¬
tions inconsistent with those made to-day, that they should throw
open their line to all that desired to do business with them on like
terms.
I desire to do justice to the Fitchburg Company in this connec¬
tion, by saying that only two or three weeks ago I was shown the
contract with the Wagner Company, by which the Fitchburg Com¬
pany, in the exercise of a wise policy and, as we desired, throws its
line open to all companies, with the same liberality which had been
exercised on our Western part of the line.
The exclusive demand made upon the Troy & Boston Company
was also made upon it, but failed in its influence, and the accepted
clauses of the contract were shown to me, which enabled that com¬
pany to run other through cars into New England-upon the same
terms as the New York Central, which is all that we ask over that
part of the route. We have not urged or undertaken, at any time,
anything inconsistent with that view.
Now, upon another point that I see noted in some testimony
that I hurriedly read over this morning,—if at any time the Erie
Company proposed to deliver any fixed quantity of freight to the
Troy & Boston line (which I do not personally remember), the
geographical and physical difficulties, which I have before explained
to have existed at that time, but which now have been mainly, and ^
can be entirely removed, and which we agree to remove, have
accounted for the failure. If, however, we did not at that time
deliver 200 cars, and the argument based therein is good for any¬
thing, it is, on the contrary true, that during the month of February,
1877, we delivered to the Troy & Boston road, without any connec¬
tions or arrangements, and upon its arbitrary rates, 300 cars from
or via Chicago, in competition with the New York Central and the
Boston & Albany. That we did not only in the absence of any
encouragement, but against the discouragement with which you
have been made familiar.
Now, is it more than fair to presume that if we could do that in
the absence of any participating arrangement, we could deliver a
much greater amount if we had active cooperation, and these works
of the State were thrown open to receive them? and if we did not
deliver 200 cars at one time, and did deliver 300 cars at another time,
our side of that argument is worth just one-half more than the
other.
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
213
In addition to that special lot and traffic, we are at this moment in
successful competition at all points in the West for the traffic of
Albany, Troy, Cohoes and Schenectady; and I may state as a fact,
that for the two years prior to 1876, and at this time, the Erie road
and its connections transported and is transporting the cotton for
the Cohoes Mills from Memphis. If we could and can do that with
our own business, why could we not extend our connections to New
England with equal success, both for our own interests and for
yours ?
I desire again to thank the Committee for their kindness in hear¬
ing me, and to disclaim any intention of doing anybody any injus¬
tice. I have, perhaps, replied by inference, rather than directly, to
some of the testimony which I have read in the abbreviated and
imperfect reports of newspapers. If those reports are not to be
relied upon, if anybody desires to ask me here any questions, or
have me make any explanations of what I have said, or in any way
elucidate any of the points that I have briefly adverted to, I shall
take great pleasure in doing it, or in withdrawing anything that
has been unintentionally unjust to anybody.
I have tried to be exactly fair in representing the just and proper
policy of the Fitchburg Company.
I have tried to fairly represent the difficulties we have encountered
in trying to come into New England and shake hospitable hands
with you, and I have not sought to overestimate our ability to deal
with the business, and have put our competition with the New York
Central (with whom our relations are of the most friendly character)
fairly; and I believe that I may here say that the general freight
agent of that company being at my office yesterda}7, I asked him to
be present to-day and hear what I had to say, understanding that
he was invited by other people, and I stated to him that we were
seeking this line as an inlet into New England.
It is with these purposes, and because our company is before the
courts, that I asked of your Committee the courtesy of having what
I should say to-day transcribed by a stenographer.
Q. (By Mr. Burt.) Mr. Blanchard, you speak of this delivery of
freight through to Albany and Troy as obtained by your freight
agents at the same cities and places where the New York Central
have their freight agents ? *
A. Yes, sir; exactly.
Q. That is: It is competing trade now with the Boston &
Albanj7, receiving their freight by the New York Central, and the
Hoosac Tunnel line receiving theirs by the New York Central,—
how do those two lines, fed from the New York Central, compare
214 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
"with your line and its advantages for securing freight for New Eng¬
land over the Tunnel route?
A. I don't know that I clearly understand your question.
Q. It is this : Every agent that you have at the West to-day, in
every city, is free to act to secure New England freight over your
Hoosac Tunnel line?
A. Entirely, sir. .
Q. Every one of them? The New York Central and their agen¬
cies cannot act in this capacity, can they? They cannot act for
both roads ?
A. I will explain and repeat. The New York Central has, at
this moment, eight fast freight lines. One of those lines, and one
onlj7, with one set of agents, is prepared to solicit business to pass
through the Tunnel, and the other agents solicit exclusively via the
Boston & Albany route. With the Erie, the situation is to be re¬
versed. Every agent that we have would be prepared to solicit
business via the Hoosac Tunnel line, and, at this time, none what¬
ever via the Boston & Albany ; for we have a force of agents from
all points, from St. Paul to New Orleans, engaged in the soliciting of
this business, with the ability to make freight contracts, those being
secured by contracts between those railway companies for the organ¬
ization of those lines, and the business put through the Hoosac
Tunnel by all these lines, and I say that you will get the business
which, two years ago, was done by six or seven lines, whereas, now,
you get but one.
Q. Wouldn't you under this arrangement,—Col. Scott and Mr.
Garrett agreeing to send the Pennsylvania freight,—also get the
benefit of all the Pennsylvania lines, and reach this northern part of
New England?
A. Speaking for the new line, it would get all that business, as
well as the business of the companies which I have represented. Per¬
haps, in amplification of what I have just stated, I may further state,
that I see it mentioned in the testimony of my friend, Mr. Washburn,
manager of the Hoosac Tunnel line, that they have recently deter¬
mined upon an increase of equipment, and it is his belief, here at
all events, that the Erie cannot get its share of the traffic over those
lines by reason of its difference in distance. Mr. Washburn, as I
have before said, knows, or shotild know, our carrying ability, actu¬
ally and comparatively, from his former relation in the Michigan
Central line to our company. Also, I wish to add, that within the
past month, the two general freight organizations which we have,—
the great Western Dispatch Consolidated and the Erie & North
Shore Dispatch Consolidated,—have held their annual meetings, at
both of which views were expressed, stating the pleasure with which
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
215
our Western connections heard that there was a probability of getting
a New England line ; and the individual members at those meetings,
comprising a very full interest, with, perhaps, one or two exceptions,
stated their readiness to cooperate to do a very large New England
business via our route, and to put their agents into our line, if de¬
sired, upon the same competing basis that agents operating by the
New York Central would be. That would be the last thing neces¬
sarily required to put this traffic upon the same basis as the others.
Q. That would put Boston as a competing point for the business
of all these cities of the West, upon the same basis that New York
is to-day with the Erie and the New York Central?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Boston would have the two independent competing lines with
all their agencies fully established ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say that you are a director in the Boston, Hoosac Tun¬
nel & Western. Has there been at any time any desire expressed
by the gentlemen of that board to obtain in any way any exclusive
control of the Tunnel ?
A. Not to my knowledge. And I would not have concurred in
it if there had.
Q. Then, as to the connections across from Schenectady to the
Tunnel line, that that road should be built for the purpose of giving
the Erie and its connections an inlet with Boston,—that was the idea
that was originally started, was it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you heard of any change of plan in that matter at all?
A. None whatever. I heard it reiterated this morning.
Q. Now, taking the connections from the coal-fields, local freight
through New York, and freights which you can give, and judging by
your capacity of doing business, and judging b}T what you know has
been done and is being done to-day over the New York Central (it
has been stated that two-thirds of the freight bj7 that road was for
New England connections), what should you state that it was rea¬
sonable and probable that this line could do for the Tunnel road,
and the city of Boston, in one year from the time when it was opened,
supposing freights to go as they have for the past six years ?
A. I am entirely within the limits of probability in stating that
we would double the present business of the Tunnel within less time
than its present organization has reached the present tonnage. I
mean that the aggregate of traffic over the Delaware & Hudson and
Erie railways, and their connections, would double the freight busi¬
ness the Tunnel would otherwise receive.
Q. Is there any reason why, after it is once established, this line
216
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
should not have for itself as great an increase as the New York
Central ?
A. I know of none.
Q. Should you have any reason to suppose that the New York
Central would not use the Iloosac Tunnel, or would not have its
Hoosac Tunnel line operated?
A. On the contrary, we believe and prefer that it should, for the
reason that when we meet an organization like that, supported by a
great company like the New York Central, we are always safer in
competition with such a route. We can give shippers the advantage
of two lines. We can act in harmony with the other party and give
them the cars, or vice versa. I wish to say more specifically than I
have said, that, referring to the conference with officers of the New
York Central at my own office, yesterday, there is at present a dis¬
position to harmonize those interests which has never been known
to me before. We have no objections, no criticisms, no policy
hostile to that of the Hoosac Tunnel Fast Freight Line except fair
business rivalry.
Q. Is there any way that this coal transportation, both anthra¬
cite and bituminous, can reach the Hoosac Tunnel and the northern
parts of Massachusetts as well as over your road and over the Dela¬
ware & Hudson Company's?
A. I know of no route ; but upon that subject of coal routes, I
would not want to speak without being prepared to correct my state¬
ments ; because, never having transported coal to New England, or
been connected with the transportation of coal to the East in this
direction, I could not answer definite^. A great deal of coal seeks
the Hudson River ; a great deal would follow this line. The present
idea of transportation is altogether in favor of " all-rail lines " over
water lines, and the value sent and tonnage are growing in that
regard by all routes.
Q. Taking the region reached by the Albany & Susquehanna,
and brought into connection with your road, state whether that
region is connected directty by this means with all the bituminous
and anthracite coal-fields of Pennsylvania, and whether the Erie
road has its connections directly with all those coal-fields ? *
A. I think that every coal-field is directly accessible to us,
except that reached by the Reading road.
Q. All that comes north can come by the lines of your road
towards New York.
A. We transport between the same coal-fields that the Delaware,
Lackawanna & Western Railroad does. We are transporting the
coals of the Lehigh Valley Coal Company, and of the Pennsylvania
Coal Company, both eastward and westward, and have upon our
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
217
road the combined shipments of more of the coal companies than is
upon any other road in the country.
Q. (By Mr. Torrey.) I understand, Mr. Blanchard, that you
are perfectly satisfied with the policy of Mr. Stearns in managing
his part of the line ?
A. Entirely so, if persevered in and it remains unchanged.
Q. And you think, that, under the management of Mr. Stearns,
who manages it from North Adams to Boston, you can get all the
facilities you require from Fitchburg to North Adams?
A. We think we could if Mr. Stearns stays there, and the policy
of the road remains as it now appears.
Q. You would not deem it necessary, for the success of your
enterprise, to take the Fitchburg road out of the hands of its pres¬
ent management?
A. I should say not.
Q. (By a member of the Committee.) .What freight did you
charge Mr. Garner for his cotton ?
A. I could not tell you. That is matter of detail that I would
be happy to answer, if I could.
Q. (By Mr. Burt.) You took that in competition with the
New York Central?
A. Yes, sir; at as low rate, and made as good time, and de¬
livered it in as good condition, and took the dry and manufactured
goods back in the same way.
Q. (By Mr. Guinn.) If I understand you, you have a third
rail from Binghamton now in connection with the West, with the
exception of a distance of about 40 miles from Waverley, thus
requiring no transhipment of freight?
A. Yes, sir. i
Q. Can you tell me, in a word, how much the equivalent of your
transfer of freight to the steamers will represent in mileage of road,
in cost at New York?
A. I could not, accurate^, without computation; but with a
Yankee guess (to which I would not like to be held), I should say
50 to GO miles.
Q. It costs about the same to transfer from one system of cars
to another?
A. No, sir ; about one-fifth by our routes, for the reason that at
New York we have to transfer by barges across the Hudson, while
the cars are placed alongside of each other.
Q. The charges pro rata over your line of steamers are as about
140 miles of road, as I understand it, with Boston?
A. A little more than that.
Q. In the Windham report it was stated as 140 miles?
28
\
218 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
A. Yes, sir ; it was subsequently changed.
Q. Counting from Bingliarnton, then, you have, at present, a
connecting line ; it is 211 miles to New York, I believe; that, and
140 would be 351 miles to New York of that distance,—your pres¬
ent connection ? •
A. Yes, sir ; to which you should add the cost of the transfer in
miles.
Q. That, at 50 miles, would be somewhere near 400 miles?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why would you prefer to leave your own freight to pass at
Bingliarnton, with that transfer, rather than carry it to New York
over your own line ?
A. Because we cannot get a certain class of traffic Ada New
York, on account of the transfer. People will not consent to the
transfer. I mean that our share of the-increase of traffic could not
be secured via New York. Grain could not be transferred, and is
not transferred, and the shippers prefer that flour and other kinds
of provisions should not be transferred. It is only a few classes of
freight that will stand the transfer.
Q. The grain cannot be transferred?
A. No, sir ; the boats have no arrangements for carrying grain
in bulk.
Q. (By Mr. Burt.) The narrow-gauge connection that you
would have to Boston over the Erie road, and your agency, is an
exclusive one? You have no narrow-guage to New York?
A. None whatever.
Q. (By Mr. Guinn.) From Bingliarnton to Williamsport, what
is the projected road there? Is that the Erie?
A. That is in the interest of the Pennsylvania Company.
Q. The understanding is, that they will make the connection
coming up by Owego?
A. Yes, sir; near WaA'erlej7.
Q. And in that the Erie road stand entirely ready to receive
them?
A. Yes, sir ; and give them a transportation over their tracks, if
it be only for five miles.
Q. Perhaps I was not fortunate in being here on time, but Mr.
Robinson testified the other day that he was perfectly willing at all
times to give you the same facilities that he gave the New York
Central, on the same rates, to carry freight coming from your road
on precisely the same terms ; and that, so far as he knew, the Fitch-
burg road was ready also, except with reference to the Pullman cars.
If I understand you correctly to-day, you say that all you ask is the
same thing.
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
219
A. That is what we have asked, and that is what we cannot get.
Q. Now, I do not clearly apprehend where the difference is be¬
tween 3"ou. What is the matter ?
A. One thing is the imposition that we are advised of, of an
arbitrary rate, at a minimum price of one per cent per ton per mile
between Troy and North Adams, if I understand the points of con¬
nection correctly ; and the other is, that they throw the line open to
the Iioosac Tunnel line without the imposition of such, or any other,
arbitrary rate. They do not charge that, or any other specific price,
but pro rate with the New York Central, no matter how low the
rate goes, so they may, if competition goes as low this year as last,
be receiving less than one-half as much from the Central as they
demand from us, there is therefore that much, and may be more or
less, clear and absolute discrimination against the interests of the
Erie and Delaware & Hudson companies and their connections on
the same business.
Q. Then we are at issue here, if I understand?
A. If any statement contrary to mine has been made, we are
decidedly and widely at issue. That is the gist of this whole dis¬
cussion, and I can readily substantiate my statements. I have
before read to you the letter of the president of the Fitchburg
road, dated the 1st of March, in which he states that he will
pursue a neutral policy. I now desire to present his other letter,—
the letter in which he states that the Troy & Boston road will not
pursue that or any other pro rata policy, but exact from us a mini¬
mum rate, not charged to others. It is as follows:—
[Copy.]
President's Office, Fitchrurg Railroad, )
Boston, Mass., March 6, 1877. >
G. R. Blanchard, Esq., Vice-President Erie Railroad, New York.
Dear Sir:—In reply to your letter, I have seen Mr. Robinson and he
considers our contract with Delaware & Hudson Canal Co. full}7 covers
the ground, and we are authorized to take freight at Binghamton from
o 7 © o
the Erie and other roads, at rates not less than one (1) cent per ton per
mile.
I am, very truly, yours,
(Signed.) Wm. B. Stearns, Preset.
I have stated, and reaffirm, that the president of the Delaware &
Hudson Company told me he had no such understanding when he
originally provided for the contract referred to in this letter. I
have stated that when the contract left the hands of the Fitchburg
Company, the objectionable minimum was not stated in it. I have
also stated that the minimum was inserted in the contract—if I am
220
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE.
[Mar.
correctly informed—hy the Troy & Boston Compan}T. I refer 30U
to the letter of Mr. Stearns, March 1st, saying he had no doubt Mr.
Robinson would put us on even terms, and }'ou can compare the two
and see how Mr. Stearns must have been disappointed. I now state
that if the arbitrary minimum had been inserted at the suggestion of
any rivals of the Erie Compan}T, it could not have been more success¬
ful in accomplishing a purpose hostile to us, and in inducing this dis¬
cussion to-day. One of the members of your Committee stated, a
moment since, that Mr. Robinson has said he offered us the same
rates he gave others. I refer you to the above letter for answer;
but if President Stearns misunderstood him, I ask, not merely why
he suggested &nd put in so high a relative minimum, but if neutral¬
ity was his purpose, as you have stated he said, why did he permit
any one else to insert any minimum against our route, which was not
charged against all routes? If I have done any injustice to the Troy
& Boston Company or its officers, I wish to correct it, here and now,
and withdraw any statements which I have made which would have
that effect, if Vice-President Robinson will show me my error.
Mr. Guinn. May I ask Mr. Robinson if he can correct that in a
word? I may have misstated what he said.
Mr. Robinson. I state here, before the Committee, that at an
interview I had with Mr. Blanchard in February, 1875, I gave him
carte-blanche to bill freight over our road, at precisely the same
price that the New York Central and Hudson River roads did ; that
at two other times I had given him the same privilege; and that
during that time, notwithstanding that I understood him to have a
large amount of freight to send us, naming the number of cars, and
introducing me to his freight agent, who said he was 011 the way to
Troy to make negotiations with me, but on account of my absence
in New York he was unable to see me. From that time to Septem¬
ber, 187G, not a word had been heard from the Erie Company ; not
one car of freight had been tendered this line ; and that 110 business
in name or nature, or a letter even requesting, had ever come to
me; and that in September or October, Mr. Stearns and Mr.
Dickson and Mr. Blanchard and Mr. Pullman visited me; and I
explained to the board then that the point of my real difficulty was
the car business, which I entered into ver}r thoroughly, and at that
time stated what Mr. Blanchard has just stated,—that if we had any
one come to us and ask us to form a line at the present rates, I
should hardly have dared to do it. But Mr. Dickson saj-s to me,
" At any time when these rates come up, are you clear that you are
ready to form a line at one cent a ton per mile?" I said, " Yes,
sir." There was not the slightest pledge on our part to open nego¬
tiations. I suppose they would do it to-day.
1,877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
221
Now, we were placed in this position with an objecting company,
and one that had not for one year given us one car of freight. Be¬
ing placed in that position, I had to decide that it was for our inter¬
est to continue with the New York Central Compan}r. I then
referred to that book where the commissioners say that it is a grave
question for that company to decide with inchoate roads. Now, I
say at that point, that if the Fitchburg road, by a Committee repre¬
senting the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, will examine this
subject with me, and will say that it is for the interest of this line
to be open to all parties taking the consequences, our line should be
laid right down for the services that these desire,—that was my
position.
Q. (By a member of the Committee.) Then you are still ready
to take freight, provided the Fitchburg Company will ?
Mr. Robinson. Yes, sir. And if the State thinks it is for her
own interest. Here is a line that commences negotiations with us,
and has put in already 1,400 cars, and is ready to double it, and
here is another line that lies outside of it, and has never done any
business with us. When we accept that line, we shall have had a
meeting and understood it. I want the parties here to take the
responsibilitj^. I don't want them to throw it upon me. I mean by
this, that the experience of the last }Tear shows, that one road has
been giving us business to live on, and the other has been giving us
nothing. You have asked for a statement of my position, and it is
there.
The Chairman. This is the whole point, that you are afraid that
if you allow the Erie freight to come over your road in competition
with the New York Central, the New York Central will turn against
you, and you feel that 3tou have got to take your chance between the
New York Central and the Erie.
Mr. Robinson. Yes, sir.
Q. That they will withdraw?
A. Yes, sir, that they will withdraw; and when the responsibil¬
ity is placed upon me I take it. I have stated at all times that
when the Fitchburg and the rest of the line thought it was for our
interest to take it, I was willing for our road to be put right into the
line.
Q. You say you don't want to do it without the State or some¬
body else is behind you?
A. Not unless some one will stand this.
The Chairman. I understand that Mr. Blanchard's statement is
substantially proved correct, that your line did refuse to take freight
at less than a minimum of a cent a ton per mile.
Mr. Robinson. That had just simpty this reference: Mr. Stearns
*
222
THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
produced him the contract which I gave him carte-blanche to make.
I was in conversation with Mr. Dickson. I said, " Do you propose
to give our agents the right to carry that freight at less than cost?"
He said, " Most certainly I do not." And I said that one cent a
ton per mile was as little as I wanted to take it for. lie had that
inserted in it, not at the suggestion of myself, or of any one. It
was only to break the line.
Mr. Blanchard. The remarks of Mr. Robinson are easily an¬
swered. The occurrence of February, 1875, to which he alludes, I
now remember to be this : The manager of one of our freight lines
came and said he could get 200 cars of New England freight, if he
could make certain arrangements, and I told him he had first better
go to Troy, and be sure the Troy & Boston Company would take
it. Meeting Mr. Robinson, accidentally, I mentioned it, and Mr.
Robinson said he knew no reason, at that time, why that lot could
not be taken. But I did not promise a carload. The manager
referred to was acting in that transaction as an agent of a Western
company, and not ours ; and subsequently, because of the differences
of gauge, requiring two transfers, we decided that our interests
wrould not be advanced by taking spasmodic lots, in the absence of
all arrangements,—such as way-billing, proportions of rates and
expenses, quick transit, etc., which were needful to ensure the satis¬
factory movement of the property. If Mr. Robinson proposed or
assented, at two other times, to a like policy, it is unknown to me,
and I regret that his willingness and polic}^, being so unmistakable
and repeated in his own mind, was not committed to paper, that he
might refer us to dates, and consistently say he is still willing to
abide by it. However that may be, it seems to me, the pertinent
question for you, Mr. Chairman, and for me to ask, is, Why, if on
his own statement he had three times assented to what is now
asked, when the physical difficulties rendered such assent practi¬
cally nugaUny, does he now decline the same or any neutral assent
when those difficulties are, or can and will be removed, and the
united companies stand here ready to close a definite and perma¬
nent arrangement. That he claims to have thrice assented, but
does not now assent, has been clearly shown, with the assigned
reasons. The past is irrelevant; we are dealing with now and
why has he changed? It seems to have been developed, that my
earlier surmise that the New York Central Company has laid down
the threatening alternative is already established. It would, there¬
fore, appear, that the fault in all the legislation and expenditure of
the State, relating to the Hoosac Tunnel has been, that you did not
get the prior assent of the New York Central Company to utilize it
after it was completed.
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201
223
You have spent your money, time, and efforts to provide an alter¬
nate outlet and inlet, and when that greatx result is reached, what is
it? Why, from the gentleman's remarks, it would seem that you
have kindly spent fifteen years of time and fifteen millions of
money to generously provide an alternate outlet for the New York
Central alone, with which, if so disposed, that company can play
shuttlecock and battledore backward and forward between the Bos¬
ton & Albany and Tunnel routes, capital and interest always to its
advantage, but how much to yours or theirs has not been shown.
Mr. Chairman: Such arguments may appeal to the fears of in¬
dividual capital and interest, but when addressed to a State, should
be met as becomes a Commonwealth which was the first to resist
a tea tax, and it should meet this in the same way, and monopoly
should be thrown over. The works of the State should be thrown
open to the world on judicious, equal terms, and freed from possi¬
bility of dictation. If, then, the threatened withdrawal takes place,
—which need not be feared,—you will at least know where you
stand ; which you do not know while the alternative is impending,
and you will secure the desired parallel and continuous rivalry from
and to all points.
Mr. Robinson has asked your Committee, Mr. Chairman, to free
him from that responsibility. I believe him to be sincere in that
wish, and I hope, as he apparently does, that you will unhesitatingly
assume it, and throw your gates open alike to all who are entitled to
traverse the premises. The Fitchburg Company seems to have as¬
sumed the alternative for itself, and no withdrawal or diversion has
followed, nor should follow, nor do we wish it to follow. I have
explained, and now repeat, that President Dickson did not believe
the contract applied to business from or to our road. I will dismiss
that part of my friend's answer with the suggestion that the Chair¬
man can verify that fact by a telegram to him.
Mr. Robinson says that he said to Mr. Dickson one cent per mile
was as little as he wanted to take our freight for; but he did not
say so to Mr. Vanderbilt or any of his freight lines, and there, in
compact space and essence, lies the whole discrimination, argument
and answer.
Q. (By a member of the Committee.) Will you allow me, Mr.
Blanchard, to ask a question. If I understand correctly, this line
of the Albany & Susquehanna is a road of exceedingly difficult
grades?
(Mr. Blanchard.) I have never been over the road but once,
but I understand they have some grades.
Q. The freight has to be raised over a rise of 2,000 feet?
224 THE IIOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
A. That I cannot say. I only know generally that they have
some pretty heavy grades.
Q. Do you know how much in level roads 100 feet of rise is
equal to?
A. No, sir ; I am no engineer. I could not answer you.
Q. Do you think that with 53 miles additional distance (if I
understand the lines correctly, and the equivalent in distance which
those difficult grades are equal to, that you have to pass over on the
Albany & Susquehanna road),—do you think, that, with that addi¬
tional distance, you can successfully compete with the New York
Central road, which is level?
A. I think so, because upon a large portion of our business
we have a shorter line. For the oil business, it would be shorter.
I mean that, taking the average of all the traffic, we could do it
successfullv.
Q. But for Chicago it is 70 miles farther.
A. No, sir. The difference of distance to Buffalo is the same as
to Chicago and all points reached via Buffalo.
Q. Is not the reason that the New York Central is able to com¬
pete with that 120 miles of additional road that you speak of solely
because their grades are more favorable than those of any other
lines?
A. No, sir; we think not. The New York Central pays $3 or
more for coal. There are a great many conditions to enter into
the cost and ability for the transportation of property. The coal
mines being upon the line of our own road, where we buy our coal
very much cheaper than our friends to the north of us, we <ire able
to transport freight over longer distances at the corresponding rates.
Q. Can you give me the difference in the cost of the coal ?
A. No, sir ; except that the transportation will make a difference
in the cost that will approach 70 cents to $1 a ton.
Q. (By the Chairman.) Mr. Blancliard, I understand this:
that all your railroad wants is that the line called the Hoosac Tun¬
nel line from Troy shall be thrown open to you, without any dis¬
crimination.
A. I will not say that it is all we want. What we do want
is not admission to the Hoosac Tunnel Freight Line, for that is im¬
practicable ; but to the Hoosac Tunnel and road.
Q. That is the principal thing ; if your line can be brought into
contact with this system, and you can use it without discrimination
against }tou, upon the same terms as the New York Central, and all
the other roads in the United States, that is the principal thing that'
you are after?
A. Yes, sir.
1877.]
HOUSE—No. 201.
225
Q. That the only reason now why j'ou cannot use it, is, that the
Troy & Boston Company has practically made a discrimination ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How would you get from Albany up to Troy at present?
How would you make a connection with the Troy & Boston road,
provided the Troy & Boston Company made no discrimination?
A. The Delaware & Hudson runs to Troy as well as Albany.
Q. Then, if by virtue of laws being passed by the Legislature,
or otherwise, it could be permanently fixed that 3'ou, from Troy to
Boston, should have the right of running over this line, at the same
rate and on the same terms as any other railroad company do have,
your principal desire would be met, the object would be accom¬
plished, would it not?
A. That object of the Erie Company would.
Q. And it would not be necessary to organize a corporation that
is contemplated by this bill?
A. No, sir ; not for that result alone.
Q. (By a member of the Committee.) What other object did
you have ? I understand that j^ou do not want the monopoly of it;
you had rather the New York Central should compete. You cannot
carry passengers from Albany to Troy now, can you, in Pullman
cars ?
A. I am not familiar enough with the details of the sleeping
cars on that line, to be able to state. I suppose the Albany & Sus¬
quehanna road has left its line open to all comers in that regard.
I believe cars are running now from Carbondale, in the coal regions,
to Saratoga. I think it is the cars of the companj7, and they run
some Wagner cars, and some Pullman, I think.
Q. (By the Chairman.) Then, if this whole route through to
Troy is thrown open, b}^ virtue of a law, or in some effective way,
to your railroad, on precisel}7 equal terms with any other railroad,
you would not say that there was need of further legislation under
this bill or otherwise?
A. Looking only to the interests of the Erie Company, and
separating myself from this proposed line as a director, and ignor¬
ing,its future relations to Lake Ontario, and whatever there may be
withal, I should say that accomplished the principal desire of the
Erie.
Q. So far as 3rour road is connected?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is to say, you would send just as much freight if the
bill was arranged in that wav?
o «/
A. Yes, sir; if they put car for car in our line, pay the corre¬
sponding part of the expense, give us equally good time for our pas-
29
226 THE HOOSAC TUNNEL LINE. [Mar.
senger and all other cars, and put their road just as much at our
service, in every respect, as at the services of any other road.
Q. You mean you should be just as independent as any other
route ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, do you believe that the New York Central and Erie
would freight over the same line?
A. AVe do all over the West, and it would not be our fault if
we did not here.
Q. What do you think in regard to the East? Suppose this line
should be given up to your freight, would the New York Central
refuse to use it?
A. I believe they would not, sir, under any circumstances what¬
ever.
Q. Now, you spoke of this association called the United Lines,
west of the Hudson Iliver ; what are these United Lines?
A. I only used that figuratively. I only mean our lines, and the
Delaware & Hudson Company's.
Q. Then it is not an association, as the term would imply?
A. No, sir.
Q. Can you tell the cost of carrying the freight per ton per
mile by rail?
A. No, sir; and nobody else can accurately, no matter how
much they may pretend to do it.
Q. The amount has been given to us several times, and I wanted
to know what you thought about its correctness.
A. It differs with everything that enters into the cost of running
a railroad. The amount of salaries paid the president, officers and
employes, the cost of culverts and embankments, and the amount of
curvatures, and how much it costs to pump water, for coal, labor,
material, terminal facilities, taxation, and everything else that is
expenditure or represents it actually or comparatively.
Q. In your opinion it is impossible to fix the actual cost?
A. Absolutely impossible with precision, although close approx¬
imations may be and are reached annually by all companies.
Q. You spoke of the salaries of the president, etc. Can you fix
the actual cost of running a train ; i. e., the expenses that enter into
the actual cost of running these freight trains and carrying the
freight?
A. It is almost impossible to do that; the usual estimates in¬
clude every sort of expense, but vary—as, to be exact, it would be
proper to divide the salary of a president according to the time he
devoted to each department.
1877.] HOUSE—No. 201. 227
Q. We have it in print, given with the nicety of so many mills
per mile, and suppose whatever is in print must be correct of course ?
A. Absolute correctness is entirely out of the question.
Q. You mean to say that no matter whether the line is longer or
shorter, you can deliver to the said line upon the same terms as the
New York Central or any other company?
A. We will undertake to do it.
Q. Your argument is, that it makes no difference to us in Massa¬
chusetts whether you have to carry 50 or 500 miles farther; if your
route is longer, that is your lookout?
A. That states exactly my view. Not only that, hut we are
doing it; taking freight away from the Pennsylvania road, over a
road longer than theirs. Have done it for years, and expect to con¬
tinue it.
Q. How much Boston freight have you brought from the West
during the past }Tear ?
A. I could not tell }Tou without having a statement prepared.
Q. By what route do you send it ?
A. By way of Providence, and the Metropolitan Steamship
Company outside ; mainly the latter.
Q. (By Mr. Winn.) The New York Central to Chicago has
the benefit of lesser grades, I suppose, and of a shorter distance,
has it not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And your price of coal, and what else ?
A. That is about all, sir ; but it is very great.
Q. You hinted that there were some other things that you
wanted.
A. I stated them subsequent^.
Q. When the Poughkeepsie line is built, can you tell me how it
will affect you ?
A. I cannot. Generally, it is supposed to diverge to our line
above Goshen. I don't know with certainty.
Mr. Burt. The case of the petitioners, as far as the evidence is
concerned, is now closed.