>r >- y^^^f^X Qass /^( b^sS" Book - (^^^ THE SPURIOUS KANSAS MEMORIAL. DEBATE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES, MEMORIAL OF JAMES K LANE, THAT THE SENATE RECEITE AND QRANT THE PRAYER MEMORIAL PRESENTED BY GENERAL CASS, AND AFTERWARDS WITHDRAWN; BMBRAOIIfG THE SPEECHB8 OP SENATORS DOUGLAS, PUGH, BDTLJill, TOUCET, RUSK, &c. WASHINGTON: PRINTED AT THB UNION OFFICE, 1856. '""/I/ r- THE SPURIOUS KANSAS MEMOEIAL Debate in the Senate, April 14, 1856, on the memorial of James H. Lane, 2^^'((I/ing that the Senate receive and grant the prayer of the memorial presented hij General Cass, and afterwards ivithdratvn, em- bracing the speeches of Senators Douglas, Pugh, Butler, Toucey, EusK, dc. The debate was opened by Mr. HARLAN, who presented the memorial of Colonel Lane, and proceeded to pass a high eiilogium upon him for his services as a politician and a soldier. After detailing Colonel Lane's services, Mr. Harlax proceeded : But, Mr. President, I desire to remind the democracy of the country, so ably represented on this floor, who had conferred on him so many distinguished honors, that when he came to his own his own knew him not. They seemed to have entirely forgotten his distinguished services in days of yore. It was not remembered with sufficient vividness to be a voucher for his personal honesty. The honorable senator from Louisiana (Mr. Benjamin) said of the paper which he presented to the Senate of the United States, in the name of the members of the Senate and House of Representatives : "I believe, upon the face of this petition and upon scrutinizing its statements and the signatures which are attaclied to it, that it is an impudent forgery, attempted to be palmed off upon the Senate of the United States through the hands of the venerable senator from Michigan. I do not believe this to be the petition of the men from whom it purports to ema- nate. I want to know how this petition got here under such circumstances as to call for such observations as it has elicited from all sides of the house." But no one answers. No one knows. No one seems to remember who James H. Lane is. The honorable senator from Connecticut, (Mr. Toucet,) who, I believe, was a member of the cabinet organized by Mr. Polk, whose election was aided very materially by the stump speeches of Mr. Lane, does not seem to know who he is. The honorable senator from Ohio, (Mr. PuGH,) his companion in arms, too, seems to have forgotten him. Mr. PUGH. Mr. President, I desire that the Senator from Iowa shall not misrepresent me. I made no remark whatever, not a syllable, in reference to the gentleman who brought this petition here. I abstained carefully from anything of the sort, and the senator will so find in the report of my remarks. Mr. HARLAN. If the remark which I made does misrepresent the honorable senater from Ohio, no one will more gladly stand corrected than myself. Mr. TOUCEY. I beg leave to correct the senator. Mr. HARL\N. I think, if honorable senators will suffer me to proceed, they will find that I do not differ with them as to what they did state. Mr. TOUCEY. I did not say one word in regard to Colonel Lane. I did not allude to him. Mr. HARLAN. It is this death-like silence [laughter] that, I suppose, caused the hon- orable senator from South Carolina to inquire of the Senate who was the bearer of the peti- tion. All his friends had forgotten him. The honorable senator from South Carolina asked, Who IS this James H. Lane ? He told us he did not know him. The honorable senator from Ohio made no response. Mr. PUGH. I heard no such question. If the Senator himself, or any one else, had asked me who was Colonel Lane, I should have given all the information in my power ; and if the senator desires me to give it, I will do so now. Mr. HARLAN. Fortunately now, by reference to the records and the history of the country, I am tolerably well posted up. If the information had been given on Thursday last it would have been very acceptable. Mr. PUGH. Then the senator does not wish to hear from me. Mr. BUTLER. I never mentioned Lane's name. Mr. HARLAN. By reference to the printed speech of the honorable senator from South <^arolina, he will find that he propounded the question, How did this petition get here.' and he told us that he did not know. The honorable senator from Michigan, too, who presented the petition, was unable to answer the question. It seemed just at that time that his memory was oblivious, and that he had forgotten the author of the letter addressed to himself at Pans, dictated and drawn up, I believe, by this James H. Lane. Mr CASS. Does the senator mean to say that I made any allusion to him at all.'' Mr! HARLAN. I meant to say that the question of the honorable senator from South Carolina was not answered by any one of these honorable senators. Mr CASS Allow me to say one word to the gentleman. He assumes that a question was put which was not answered. Why, sir, you have no right to require every man to get up here and answer every question put in that way. If a senator, in the course ot his remarks, says that a fict is not so, am I bound to contradict it." You may allude to what a senator himself says, but you can draw no inference from his failure to notice or answer a. ouestion that is not addressed to him ; there is no ethics in that. ' Mr BUTLER. I do not intend to detain the Senate by making any reply to the senator from iowa— very far from it ; but I do not wish the senator from Iowa to make an issue for me which he cannot understand. Mr HARLAN. Will the honorable senator state his remark again. Mr. BUTLER. I say that I do not wish you again, as you have attempted heretofore, to make' an issue for me before the country which you cannot understand. The o-ravamen of my argument against the printing of this memorial last week was that the motion^o print it was in violation of a rule of the Senate. Why do I say it was a violation of the rules of the Senate ? Because it came in here with the intrusive title marked upon it that it was a paper that was presented by the senators and representatives of the btate ot Kansas T did ask the question who has presented this petition that can be invested with any of the attributes or the dignity of senators or representatives of Kansas, when we knew there was no such State > That is tlie way in which I stated my proposition, i did not allude to Colonel Lane. 1 do not know that the mere person was in my mmd. i asked officially who was it that presented it here— in what capacity -, and how did it get to the Senate of the United States.? Did it come here through the straight gate, or over the wall, or under it.' That is what I said, and I confine myself always to the proposition before the Senate. The gentleman, I have no doubt, is very willing to take a great advantage ot the fact that sometimes I illustrate the few remarks which I make by some allusion to the iliad. I did not know before that Lane was the hero of Buena Vista. I have no doubt hereafter this oration will be put in verse and will be called the Lanead. [Laughter.] The gravamen of my proposition was as I have stated ; and I now state that the rule re- quires every petition coming to the Senate of the United States to have signatures attached to it. My friend from Illinois will take care of that. I have used the word gravamen. 1 hope the gentleman will forgive me, for I understand about as much of Latin as he does ot English. [Laughter.] . r .i, »■ <• tu-^ Mr DOUGLAS. Mr. President, I propose to raise the question of the reception ot tnis memorial, and to give the reasons why it ought not to be received. Colonel Lane now pre- sents a paper here in his own name, claiming to be entitled to a seat in the Senate ot the United States from the State of Kansas, and sets forth in the memorial—— Mr HARLAN. I hope the honorable senator will allow me to state the proposition. He claims to be entitled to a seat on this floor from the State of Kansas when that State shall have been received into the Union. Mr DOUGLAS. He puts the form of expression in that way to avoid the objection which was taken to the memorial the other day, purporting to be from the senators and rep- resentatives of the legislature of the State of Kansas. It shows clearly that it is an evasion to chancre the phraseolotry, and yet affirm his right to a seat in this body. He makes it an individual memorial, and" then annexes to it the obnoxious paper which was rejected by the Senate the other day. Inasmuch as he annexes that paper, and makes it a part of his rne- morial, it is liable to all the objections which were urged to that, together with others ot a, still more serious character. „ , . . j .i .., 4i,„ „*i,on Now, sir, what is the explanation which he gives for having presented the paper the other day, through the senator from Michigan, with a declaration that it was a memorial from the members of that legislature then in session? The excuse is, that the paper then presented was copied from an original memorial reported to the legislature of the self-styled btate ot Kansas from a committee by Mr. Hutchinson, its chairman, and which was first adopted and then referred to a committee of revision. This fact is verified by the oatfi of Colonel Lane, drawn in language so equivocal and evasive as to raise a doubt in regard to the lair- ness of the explanation. His oath is, that that paper was drawn up and adopted, and was referred to a committee of revision, from which the present revised copy is taken. Hy whom was it taken.' 1 will show you that it is a totally different document, and not a true or even substantial copy of the one which he alleges was adopted in Kansas. -.u «i Here I mav be permitted to remark that I do not see what connexion it has wijh Uie genuineness 6f the paper to prove that Colonel Lane was in the Mexican war. I do not sec the force of that fact to elucidate the point in dispute. Great pains have also been taken here to prove that this could not have been a fraud, because Colonel Lane was a democrat. I admit that is a pretty fair presumption. I admit there is great weight in that position. The senator from Iowa also assumes that this could not have been a frijud because Coionei h'Tir*^'^ •^'"" l^^ Nebraska bill. That fact, too, ought to have its full weight in his favor, SudTp^oJTe s'la'te!""^'"" ''"' ^" " '" '^°"'^' "'^"' ^"'^ '"^^P^^'^ «^ perpetrating a v.„'^«!n'""'' ^h^ff^i^f'^ftofy proofs on the point in dispute? I have known men to claim to be democrats before who had about as good a title and as good a record as Colonel Lane. I 1 suppose that Mr Francis P. Bla.r could prove a good record during the lifetime of General Jackson, and a volume could be written to show his services and his devotion to the demo- cratic cause But if you will trace his history a little further, you will find him president ot a black republican convention at Pittsburg. In the face of that fact, would you deem it fair to quote him as a democrat at the present time.' I suppose that one Andrew Jackson Donel- son could show a record representing him as private secretary to the old hero, with the false claini put forth by his new friends that he was entitled to claim the honors of an adopted son. He, too, IS a candidate tor the vice presidency of the United States on the know-noti)ing ticket ! Does this fact prove that he is a democrat now > "^uiuig .J I'l^^u'""- !' 'V]} T^ "^f ''f"'f? V '■'" "''^ P°''^'^=i' associates that Colonel Lane now is as essentially Identified with the black republican party as Mr. Blair himself is, or as Mr. Don- elson IS with tiie know-nothing party. Is the mere fact that they once belonged to the demo- cratic party conclusive evidence that they could not have done anythincr wrong since their apostacy? Is there so much virtue in democratic associations that it protects a man's repu- tation from all iniurious imputations after having fallen from grace.' 1 admit the virtue so long as they are faithful to democratic principles, but I deny that they have a right to claim, as a saving grace, sufficient to exculpate them for subsequent sins that they were once demo- crats and apostacized from the true faith. That, sir, is all 1 have to say- of the democracy of Colonel Lane, and all that class of modern politicians whose chief claim to popular favor consists in the fact that they were once democrats, and have betrayed those who have reposed confidence in them and heaped honors on them. ^ I have to deal with this paper as I f^nd it. Now, is the paper which was presented the other day a copy, or not, of the paper now presented as the original.' The first three pacre.s of the original are not to be found at all in the paper presented by the senator from Michio-an l^wiH read some portions of those tlireo pages. On the second page will be found this para " The Constitution of the United States guaranties to every State a republican form of government, and delegates to Congress no power to establi.sh any laws over any State, except Mich as are national, and affect the States alike for the common good. The people of any Jerritory or State, over wJiom the Constitution extends, although not admitted into the Union as a sovereign State, have reserved to themselves the same inherent and inalienable rights as belonged to the people of the several States of the Union. The Constitution declares that powers not delegated to tlie United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively or to the people. Therefbre, since the Consti- tution delegates to Congress no power to establish a government over the new Territories the same inherent rights are reserved to the people of a Territory over which the Constitution extends, as are reserved to the people of the several original States." Thus the memorial, which, as it is said, was adopted by the Kansas legislature, declared their riaht to form a State constitution because the Nebraska bill was unconstitutional ; be- cause, being unconstitutional, it was a nullity ; because there were no constituted authorities in tiie territory ; because Congress had no power over tliem ; and hence they would not sub- mit to the power of Congress. That is the ground on which this memorial adopted by the Kansas legislature puts their case. It, is the very point asserted in the majority report, and denied by the senator from Vermont (Mr. Collamer) in the minority report-the very point in controversy between us and our opponents. Colonel Lane comes here standino- on the revolutionary right, with a memorial that denies the power of Congress, and defies it's author- ity ; he finds his friends backing out, saying that it is not their position ; and then he sits down and makes what he calls a copy, and omits that fundamental principle on which their whole action rested. It is not an immaterial point. It is not a mere surplusage as pretended. It IS striking at the fundamental principle upon which they rest all their action. It is a change in a vital part of the memorial, for the purpose of avoiding the issue which the major- ity of the Conimittee on Territories had made with the minority, for the purpose of avoidinjr the weiglit of the blows under which the defenders of this rebellion were staggering and tot- tering, until tliey found that they could not maintain their position. In order to enable them to change the position in which they had been beaten in argument, somebody took their own memorial and struck out tlie very ground on which they justified their whole action, and brought forward a difterent thing altogether, as a justification of their conduct. I submit whether this does not make it a totally different document, affirming entirely diiierent .principles, in order to place their action in a totally different liaid there were erasures in it, not merely of words, not merely of sentences, but of whole paragraphs, as if the person who had it in charge, after listening to our discussion here, had abandoned some propositions as untenable, and altered the peti- tion accordingly. I said that whenever the original should be produced, if there was any original, it would be time enough to decide upon my course.. For having said that, sir, the senator from Iowa has arraigned me this morning in the course of his reiterated discussion of the general subject. T should think the senator ought to be satisfied. When a proposition was made to print extra copies of the documents submitted to us by the President of the United States, in order that the country might be informed on these questions from Kansas, that, instead of irre- sponsible paragraphs in the newspapers, appeals to passion and to prejudice, our common constituents — the constituents of that senator as well as my constituents— might see the origi- * nal and authentic reports transmitted to the Senate by the executive head of the govern- ment — when that proposition was made, senator after senator on th? other side claimed the right to be heard, and thus postponed any discussion. Tiie question has not yet been taken, sir, although o period of more than two months has elapsed. The senator from Iowa gave us notice that he desired to return home, and asked the privilege of being heard on the sub- ject, as an act of courtesy. His request was granted, and he addressed the Senate for several Iiours. Mr. HARL.^N. I think the senator, on reflection, will find that he is mistaken. He 8 makes a mistake when he suys tlial I slated to the Senate that I intended to return home, and ffave that as a reason. The gentleman must be tlihiking of some other senator. Mr PUGH. Sir, I appeal to the record. When two reports were made from the Com- mittee on Territories, and senators on the other side challenged us to allow the reports to be printod too-ether, and thus sent before the country, I moved that a certam number of copies should be so printed ; and the motion went to the Committee on Printing, under the rules. I then stated that, by this system of debating immaterial motions, we had been prevented from printino- extra copies of the President's Kansas message, and urged the Senate to de- cide the question at once, and agree to proceed with the discussion upon tiie bill ot which the committee had given notice. I was answered by the senator from l\ew \ork, (Mr. Seward,) that the senator from Iowa claimed the floor upon the motion to print the Presi- dent's special message, and that he wished to be heard. Accordingly, sir, the motion was laid over from day io day, from week to week, until the senator had made his speech. 1 missed him then i'rom the chamber, and supposed that he had gone home. Now, sir, there are some others of us who feel bound, by the emergencies of our position, to express the opinions which we entertain with reference to these Kansas troubles. I desire, at a i)r'-'ier time, to express my opinions ; but I do protest that when a senator has been heard, hour after hour, upon the question, he ought not, on the mere presentation of a me- morial, to obstruct the prosrress of business in the Senate by repeating his speech ; and especially should he avoid calling in question the conduct or the motives of other Senators. Mr. President, I made no reflection upon the gentleman who brought this paper here— none I did not feel bound to give the Senate his biography ; I did not know it. I knew that he was once a citizen of the State which you represent ; I knew that he had been pro- moted to important offices by the nomination of the democratic party in your State ; but 1 have heard, whether it be true or not, that, four or five months ago, in the Territory of Kansas, he publicly expressed a full adhesion to the rei)ublican party and platform. He is not the first man who has enjoyed the confidence of the democratic party, and then aban- doned us for some other political organization. But I tell the senator from Iowa this: When- ever a man joins the republican party (su called) he is a democrat no more ; and the sooner he parts with that title the better for himself and for all concerned. Now, sir, the question is upon the reception of another pretended memorial. It is pro- duced here as the original of the petition which we rejected on Thursday last, and, as I un- derstand, in compliance with a demand then made for the original. Is it anything of the sort? What senator so pretends? It is not the same petition in any conceivable sense. It does not resemble the other in beginning or in conclusion. Shall we, then, receive this paper ? That is the question. To the other paper, I have said, all the signatures were subscribed by one hand. This has an advantage ; there are no signatures to it, and no attestation. Whence it comes, sir, we know not, except from the assertions of senators, and from the affidavit which I shall now read : "District of Columbia, "County and city of Washington, ss : " Personally appeared before the undersigned, duly authorized by law to administer oaths, James H. Lane, senator elect from Kansas, who, being duly sworn, upon his oath, states : that the twenty-four half sheets of paper hereto annexed contain the original draft of the me- morial from the members of the general assembly of Kansas, which convened at Topeka on the 4th March last, to the Congress of the United States, as reported to the said assembly by John Hutchinson, esq., chairman of the committee appointed to draft said memorial ; as adopted by both branches of said assembly ; as referred to the committee on revision, and in- trusted by said committee to this affiant, and from which the revised copy was prepared which was submitted to the Senate of the United States by General Cass, and which was the subject of remark on Thursday last. " Dated Washington city, the 14th day of April, 1856. "J. H. LANE. " Sworn and subscribed before me this 14th of April, 1856. " JOHN McLEAN, '^ Justice Supreme Court United States." I doubt whether Judge McLean has authority to administer such an oath ; but let that pass. Now, Mr. President, what does the affidavit declare? Is this the memorial of the. general assembly, so called, of the State of Kansas? No, sir ; by Colonel Lane's own state- ment, it is not. This is the mere draft, adopted by a committee, and read to the so called legislature. That body, we are told, has agreed to it in substance, but never has ordered it to be engrossed and signed. Neither the members nor the officers, in fact, ever afhxed their signatures. They gave it no sort of authentication. What did the "members of the self-styled legislature direct? They referred it to another committee for revision, intending that it should be jiut into shape before its final adoption and signature ; but this committee of revision, instead of performing the duty enjoined — in- stead of revising the memorial, and reporting it to the legislature, so called, for consideration, has given the paper to Colonel James H. Lane, and devolved on him, not a member of the legislature at all, tiie duty and the authority of^ revision. That is what Colonel Lane here Tiffirms, and that,! presume, is tl.o case. The committee of revision never renorted the memor.al. The draft of it was bunded to Col-.nel Lane, and Colonel Lane has Ked He assumes to be the spokcsnran for all those provisional legislators. They have only to swear m h,s words, and follow ,n ins footstops ; whatever he chooses to say, 1 suppose tJ,ey ^ht^Sy^?:^^SZ:i^^ '^'"'''^-^^ c£cretion-ot^men^2S!;r?^^Se Mr President, if it were not fur the great question which is behind-if it were not for the agitation winch now prevails in all quarters of the Union-if no terrible controversy. Political aid sectional, had ansen-there ,s not a senator in this chamber who would vote to receive tins paper—not one It is an imperfect undertaking at best. If the self-styled general assembly of Kansas should ever hold another session-if the members can succeed nes^caping grand junes and mdic ments, marshals, and writs, and the issue, of solemn judicial inve ti? i enoH^H ^'^"'r?"?^' ^"[ "'° ^■•■■'".^'^^'i°" °f business-it may be that this document w 1 be reported regularly from the committee on revision, and authenticated as well as adopted m due form. When such an event shall have happened-if happen it possibly can-and he .enatortlrrf.T ""'iT'"^ '"'^^??■ '"'" "'"-''-f-"' I will d'e'cide v^hat be^comes r^e as a senator toward the petitioners and the country at larfre Now, sir, as we have heard s., much lately about "the right of petition, let us see how far this paper confornis to the rules established in ancient times, and written down for oi^ n- Ka^^Hf pi^h^L^t;- °pSgelJ^: '^"""^"^ '''''' " Laws, Privileges, Proceedings, and JiJ^^ ^n'^'""] f ""''' be written upon parchment or paper, f.,r a printed or lithographed petition will not be received ; and at least one signature should be upon the same fheet or skin upon w nch the petition is written. It must be in the English lan^uaffe or accomDanied mterl?n'";"'''""H"'''=' "" •-'"'^- -'- P— ^s it states to le correc^rif mut'be ?"e f^^' interlineations and erasures ; it must be signed ; it must have original signatures or mark" nni b.l ?if the original, nor signatures of agents on behalf of others ; and it mus( ^rlit 1 u^' "°'-/ffidavits, or other documents annexed. Petitions of co;porations ag- gregate should be under their common seal. To these rules another may be added, that Jf ieP.?iTT^"fh "" P;^blic meeting signs a petition on behalf of those assembled, it is only L>n W f P^^'/'7°^V" '"'^'^'dual, and is so entered on the journals, because the signature of one party for others cannot be recognized. " It may be a useful caution to state tliat any forgery or fraud in the preparation of peti- tions, or in the signatures attached, will be punished as a breach of privilege. By a resolution of the House of Commons, 2d of June, 1774, it was declared • it-.oiuiion Jr.'.J!'^^ v.! ^"^'''^ unwarrantable, and a breach of the privilege of this House, for any person to set the name of any other person to any petition to be presented to this House. ' and unisheT" "^ " frequent instances in which such irregularities have been discovered That is the English rule. We are not quite so strict in the United States. Here is what Mr. Jetierson says : " Petitions must be subscribed by the petitioners, unless they are attendincr, or unable to sign, and ai^rred by a member. But a petition not subscribed, but which the member pre- senting It afhrmed to be all in the handwriting of the petitioner, and his name written in 'he beginning, was on a question (iMarch 14, 180U) received by the Senate. The averment of a member, or of somebody without doors, that they know the handwriting of the petitioners is necessary, if it be questioned " >= i , I do not ask even this strictness. I simply ask that the paper should express the sentiments ot the persons from whom it purports to emanate, in their own lanffuatre, or in lano-uaire which they have considered and adopted. "^ " >= e ' I do not agree that these men, whether you call them a legislature, or by some other title can deputize Colonel Lane to put the recital of their grievances into form. I do not ajrree to' receive any paper from him at all, unless it be his own petition, in his individual character and upon his responsibility as a citizen. ' But, sir, this is not the only objection. I find another rule worthy of notice, on pao-e 304 or the book which I first quoted : -- i o " The language of a petition should be respectful and temperate, and free from ofit-nsive imputations upon the character and conduct of parliament, or the courts of justice or other tribunal, or constituted aiitliority. it may not allude to debates in either house of parliament nor to intended motions." ' Now, Mr. President, I wish to call the attention of the Senate to a few parao-raphs in this paper : r o r " The undersigned have witnessed, with astonishment and deep regret, the coarse insinua- tion on the character and conduct of the people of Kansas contained in the recent special message of the President of tiie United States." 10 Again, sir, on a subsequent page : " Toleration of such ouirages is but an enslavement of tlie people of Kansas, and a breach of faith, and a dereliction of duty on the part of the Federal Executive." Mr. President, whatever ni}' relations to a citizen so eminent as he must be who is exalted to the office of Chief Magistrate— if 1 were ever so much opposed to him in political senti- ment I could not vote to receive any petition w'hich thus reflected upon his cliaracter and motives. What right have we to receive such a petition? This, sir, is not the House by which the President can be impeached. This is the House which must try the President whenever he has been impeached ; and shall we permit any accuser, except the House of Representatives, to drag him before us? Shall we dignify or affirm charges of so gross a character, in advance of any trial, in advance of any impeachment, by enjoining on our com- mittees the duty which attends the reference of a petition ? Sir, the grossest act ot usurpation ever practiced in this body, as 1 believe, was when President Jackson was condemned by resolution without a trial. 1 will not agree— knowing that among the duties devolved on me, in virtue of my official oath, is that of delivering judgment upon the Chief Magistrate when- ever he shall have been properly arraigned — I will not agree that Colonel Lane and his asso- ciates shall assume the office and authority of the grand inquest of the nation, which now sits at the other end of the Capitol. I told the Senator from Iowa, when he first referred to me by name, that 1 had not made any charge or insinuation against the character of Colonel Lane. I did not think it neces- sary to the maintenance of my position. I make no charges now. I cannot imagine what we have to do with that gentleman. I do not see the propriety of thrusting his praises mto this discussion. The senator from Iowa has related his biography at great length, his public services, and his partisan services, and then appeals to me, in a sneering manner, as his companion in arms, his political confederate, and what not, that I was under some obliga- tion to support Colonel Lane's pretensions or endorse his behavior. I violated my duty, forsooth, because I did not answer some general question propounded by my honorable friend from South Carolina, (Mr. Butler,) which I did not hear, and which I told the Senator from Iowa distinctly I did not hear. Besides, sir, I agree with my honorable and distinguished friend from Michigan, (Mr. Cass,) that I was under no obligations to answer a rlietorical question, general in its character, if I had heard it. I have other duties here and other tastes than to rehearse the biography of individuals, living or dead, at the mere solicitation of a senator I am not one of Colonel Lane's witnesses. He has not asked me to be his witness; he has not asked me to present any of his papers ; he has not asked me to give a recital of k\s services, his sufierings, or his sacrifices ; and, indeed, the senator from Iowa has dispensed with the necessity of all that My colleague says that the citizens of Ohio feel a deep interest in the afiairs ot Kansas Territory. J believe that is true ; I believe the citizens of every State in the Union feel such an interest. He declares, furthermore, that it shall be a part of his duty to extend a special protection over those who have emigrated from the State of Ohio into the Territory of Kan- sas, and established tlieir residence in it. Sir, I disclaim such duty, for my part disclaim all charo-e over them, or partisanship for them, except as they are citizens of the United States, a'lid entitled to the protection of the Constitution and the laws. There sitsbelore me, sir, a o-entleman who once held a prominent position in the State whinh 1 have the honor to represent, but who hns since become a citizen of the State of California, (Mr. Wkller,) and she has showered honors upon him. I should like to know if my colleague imagines tliat he and I are to exercise guardianship over the honorable senator from Cahlornia? Tliose men who emitrrated from Ohio to Kansas have gone from his care and mine. They iibandoiied our State and all allegiance to it. They are no lon-er citizens of Ohio in any sense. .\i!d when- ever the State, by any of her authorities— her legislature, iier governor, or either ot her sen- ators-shall assum ; to dictate for the Territory of Kansas, upon such a pretence as that, it will be an act of uuwarruntable and inexcusable usurpation. I understand, jicrliaps, to what my colleague alludes. 1 know the fact— he knows it- others know it— that the gentleman who now iiolds the chief executive office in Ohio has ad- dressed a message to the general assembJv ol the State upon the sul)jnct of K^mis^is affiiirs— advisino- that the State should intervene, in its s.-vereign capacity, for the sell.ljment of cer- tain controversies between the territorial legislature upon the one side, and tli.- insurgents at Lawrence upon the other. It was a proposition to engage the State in re:icllion and civil war. Thereupon, sir, one member of the legislature— a representative of t'l.- county, per- haps, in which my colleague resides— introduced a resolution tiiat five reginieuis of soldiers should be enlisted and serJt to Kansas for the purpos.- of waging a war upon the lerntorial authorities , \ i . j v . I am happy to inform the Senate, however, that the proposition was not adopted. Yet the leaine objection apply to all othsr questions which involve tlie inerests and excite the passions of men as well as the question of slavery ? Does it not apply to the Maine liquor law, to railroad contro- versies, to taxation, to schools, to the location of county seats, to the division of counties? in short, does it not apply to all questions of legislation which affect the propert}' and enlist the feelings and passions of the community ? If the objection be a valid one against the Nebraska bill in respect to the slavery question, it applies in a greater or less degree to every other subject of legislation in proportion as it affects the interests and feelings of the people. It is an objection to the fundamental principles upon which all free governments rest, and which, when admitted to be valid, drives us irresistibly to despotism. The argument is that the people should not be permitted to vote upon a question involving their social and domestic system-^, lest there might arise a diversity of opinion which might possibly degenerate into quarrels and controversies, and terminate in violence! Hence, it would seem to follow, that if the people were allowed any voice in making their own laws it should be confined to tliose insignificant quesli(]ns in which they feel no interest, and in regard to whicli there could be no probability of a diversity of opinion ! Precious boon — to allow the people to vote when they feel no interest in the question, and deny them the privilege when they do, for fear they will differ in opinion and become excited about it! This is " the experiment" — " the vice of a mistaken law" — to which the senator from Vermont traces all the difliculties in Kansas! He seems to be under the impression that this " experiment" is now introduced into our legis- lation for the first time in respect to the slavery question by the Nebraska bill! He makes the Nebraska acta far more important measure — one reflecting infinitely more credit upon its author than I ever claimed for it ! I was under the impression that the same principle, or experiment, as he jjrefers to call it, was involved and affirmed in the compromise measures of 1850, and incorporated into the platforms of the whig party and of the democratic party at Baltimore in 1852, as a rule of action by which each party pledged itself to be governed in all future controversies upon the slavery question. Did not the acts for the organization of the Territories of Utah and New Mexico try the same '• experiment r" Were not those acts based on tlie same principle? Did not those acts " leave the people perfectly free to form and regulate their domestic institutions in their own way, subject only to the Constitution of the United States," with theguarantee that, when admitted into the Union, they should be received " witli or without slavery," as their constitution should provide at the time of ad- mission ? Did violence and bloodshed result as the natural, and perhaps unavoidable, conse- quences of this experiment in 185U ? Have any such consequences lesulied from tlie same experiment in Nebraska in 1854? If violence and bloodshed are the natural consequences ol such an experiment, why have not the same causes produced like effects elsewhere as well as in Kansas? I would like to have this inquiry answered by the senator from Vermont, or by the senator from New York, (Mr. Seward,) who has endorsed his report and pledged him- self to make good its positions. I will give Ihem the benefit of my answer now. There were na Emigrant Aid Societies in 1850. There were no organized systems of foreign interference in either of those Territories? The Emigrant Aid Societies have not extended their operations to Nebraska ! The " experiment" of self-government — that " vice of a mistaken law" — has had fair play in Nebraska ; hence notliing has occurred in that Territory to disturb the peace and quiet of the inhabitants. On the contrary, in Kansas, where there has been organized foreign interference — where the Emigrant Aid Societies concentrated all their efforts to con- trol the domestic institutions and local legislation of tlie Territory — violence and bloodshed have resulted as the natural consequence, not of the " vice of a mistaken law," but of their experiment of foreign interference with the domestic concerns of a distant Territory ! IJut the senator from Vermont has made one concession for which I return him my ac- knowledgments. He admits that, by the Constitution of tiie United States, each State has a right to decide the slavery question for itself, and that this right could have been exercised by the people of Kansas when they should form a constitution, preparatory to their admis- sion into the Union, even if the Nebraska bill had not repealed the Missouri compromise. I thank hitn for this admission. I hope those witii whom he acts will endorse the proposition. Then I would like to have Iiiin and them ex()lain what harm the repeal has done, and why they desire to have it restored ? If Kansas could have become a slave State before as well as now, what is the use of restoring the Missouri compromise? 29 • Mr. SEWARD. The honorable senator will excuse me for calling his attention to a mis- apprehension under which he labors with regard to the remark of the senator from Vermont who is now absent, which is the only reason why I interpose. Mr. DOUGLAS. I yield the floor witii pleasure. Mr. SEWARD I heard a large portion of the senator's speech, and I did not understand him to say that a State would have the right to come into the Union with or without slavery^ as her people pleased, if the compromise act had not been repealed. I understood him to say that, after coming in, it would have the right to establish or prohibit slavery. Mr. TOOMBS and several other senators. No, no. Mr. DOUGLAS. On the contrar}^ he took the distinct ground that a State, when its people assembled to form a constitution, preparatory to admission, had the right to come in with or without slaver^', even under the Missouri compromise. Mr. SEWARD. Idid not hear that. Mr. DOU GLAS. My colleague came to the same conclusion the other day in his speech. We seem to be making converts to the true doctrine. It is a sound constitutional principle. If we get men to admit that a State has the right when she forms iier constitution either to have slavery or not, to adopt or reject it, as she pleases, it is a pretty good step towards the doctrine of the Nebraska bill. When that admission is made, I want to know what you all mean when you talk about a breach of faith in the repeal of the Missouri compromise.' You have all been in the habit of saying on the stump, and wherever else you had the opportu- nity, that by the Nebraska bill we liad broken a covenant which dedicated Kansas and Ne- braska to freedom " forever." We are now told that " forever" means " hereafter," and lasts only until there are people enough to form a State, and that no partiular number is required for that purpose. The senator from Vermont attempts to ridicule the Nebraska bill because it contains a pro- vision declaring the Constitution of the United States to be in force in the Territory. He desires to know who ever doubted that such would be the case without that provision.' Who was ever silly enough to suppose that the constitution could be extended by law over a Ter- ritory which it did not reach without such law? I will answer his question. I will tell him the man. It was no less a person than Daniel Webster — New England's great statesman, whom she delighted to call the great expounder of the constitution. Senators who were then members of this body have not forgotten, and will not soon forget, the debate between Mr. Webster and Mr. Calhoun upon this very point, in which the former contended that the Constitution of the United States did not extend over the Territories without an act of Con- gress to that effect ; wliile, on the other hand, the great Carolinean insisted liiat the consti- tution was coextensive with the limits and covered all the Territories pertaining to the republic. Without endorsing the peculiar opinions of Mr. Webster on this point, Mr. Clay did not hesitate, in deference to tiiem, to adopt, in the Compromise of 1850, the identical provision which the senator from Vermont now attempts to ridicule, under the supposition that I introduced it into the Nebraska act for the first time in our legislation. I copied the provision from the compromise measures of 1850 for the same reasons vi^liich induced Mr. Clay to adopt it, although it is but fair to say that I never did concur in the opinion of Mr. Webster that the constitution did not apply to the Territories without an act of Congress carrying it there. Mr. President, 1 have a few words to say to the senator from New York [Mr. Seward] be- fore I close my remarks. On the day I presented to the Senate the report of the Committee on Territories, and immediately after the minority report was read at the Secretary's desk, he rose and volunteered the pledge that he would make good every position affirmed by it. As he has the floor for the next speech upon this question, he will be expected to redeem this pledge, or acknowledge his inability to do so. One of these positions is, that the " experi- ment" of allowing the people to settle the slavery question for themselves in Territories preparatory to their admission into the Union was introduced into our legislation for the first time in the history of this republic in the Kansas-Nebraska act ; and that, if violence re- sulted from this experiment as a natural, and perhaps unavoidable, consequence, it was the "vice of a mistaken law." I call on the senator from New York to sustain the truth of this allegation. I desire him to answer specifically whether the compromise measures of 1850 did not leave the people of New Mexico and Utah perfectly free to decide tiie slavery ques- tion for themselves, and guaranty their admission into the Union with or without slavery, as their constitution should provide at the time of admission? I ask him if he did not oppose the bills for the organization of those Territories at that time, for the reason that they did not contain the Wilmot proviso, prohibiting slavery, and for the reason that they did contain the guarantee that they should be admitted with or without slavery, as they should decide for themselves? When he answers this question, I would like to have him explain at the same time whether he did not stand pledged in 1852 to sustain the whig Baltimore platform, and to support General Scott, standing on that platform " with the resolutions annexed," to use his emphatic language ; and whether those resolutions did not bind General Scott, and the party supporting him, to carry out in good faith the compromise measures of 1850 " m substance and in principle?" I desire a direct answer on these points, in order that the Senate may judge how far he redeems his pledge to make good the positions of the minority report. I would like to have him explain the difference between the " experiment" of tlie compromise measures of 1850 and of the Kansas-Nebraska act of 1854, in allowing the people to decide 30 the slavery question lor tliemselves, and w^hother that principle in each case was equally the '; vice of a mistaken law ?" If he shall answer that he did regard both measures in the same light, 1 should be gratified it he will explain how it was that he united with the whitr party in l8o-2 to sustain the " vice of that mistaken law, "and now calls upon all the odds and onds^ fragments and portions, of parties and isms, to merge all differences on other points and iorm a.Jusion with him on the isolated point of eradicating this " vice of a mistaken law" in the name of freedom and humanity ? While he is portraying the beauties of ne