I 396 '5 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. »py 2 HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OX MERCHANT MARINE AND FISHERIES I HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY ON THE COAST OF FLORIDA, GULF OF MEXICO. APRIL 19 TO 25, 1906. WASHINGTON: GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 1906. ': A \s> .*% ■>■ iuN '3 1906 D.otO. PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. Committee ox the Merchant Marine and Fisheries, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C, April 19, 1906. The committee met at 11 oVlock a. m., Hon. Charles H. Grosvenor in the chair. The Chairman. There are two bills here relating to a matter of some importance, and the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Sparkman, is here to address the committee upon Senate bills 4805 and 4806. STATEMENT OF HON. STEPHEN M. SPARKMAN, REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA. Mr. Sparkman. Mr. Chairman, the hrst of these bills (S. 4805) prohibits aliens from taking or gathering sponges in the ^Yaters of the United States, and the other (S. 4800) prohibits the use of diving apparatus in gathering the sponges. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Is tliis a proper exercise of Federal jurisdiction, within the 3-mile limit? Why is not that within municipal juris- diction? Mr. Sparkman. I am inclined to think Congress has jurisdiction in the matter of prohibiting aliens fishing in the waters of the United States. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD, I submit to you this proposition : What juris- diction does the United States have over tide waters or over the high seas, except to regulate obstructions and control their disposition ? Mr. Spark:man. I think it has at least concurrent Jurisdiction with the State authorities in all tidal waters, all navigable waters, of the United States. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. What kind of jurisdiction does it have? Does it have both municipal and Federal jurisdiction, or does it have Fed- eral jurisdiction that is maritime in its character? Of course we do have jurisdiction over the harbors. The Chairman. Do we not regulate the cod fishing and mack- erel fishing? We even go into the bays along your Maine coast and regulate the time of the year wdien you may catch mackerel. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. But the regulation of codfishing is outside of the 3-mile limit. The Chairman. But mackerel fishing is not. Even a statesman of the size of Mr. Reed made a long and hard fight and secured legislation on that very subject. 3 4 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. Mr. Sparkman. I take it the United States would have no greater authority to prohibit sponge fishing than the State of Florida would have. I am under the impression that it has jurisdiction to do just Avhat is suggested here. The Chairman. I think you had better etmsider that question before the bills come up in the House. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. I supposc it is a valuable industry. Mr. Sparkman. It is very valualde iu Florida, and it is threatened with destruction unless some such legislation is passed. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. You do not Avant to get legislation here that may turn out afterwards to be ineri'ective? I think you had better look into the matter and see whether this is the legislation you want. There may be nothing in my suggestion. Mr. Sparkman. I would be willing to have the legislation take any direction this committee nuiy see proper to give it. So far as I am personally concerned I would waste little time on the constitu- tional feature unless the act proposed to be drawn were clearly unconstitutional, or there should be some doubts as to its constitu- tionality. If the legislation ought to be enacted, I would do it and leave its constitutional features to the courts. In this case I think the legislation ver}^ necessary, and that both of these bills should be passed. I think probably the subject-matter of both could have been embraced within one bill; but we have two bills here, and both should, in my opinion, become laws. The reason for the legislation is that the sj^onge industry in the United States is threatened with destruction. It is carried on only in the Florida waters, because sponges are found in the United States only in those waters. They are found in the waters of the Mediter- ranean, off the coast of x^frica, and possibly in the Bahamas; but they are found noAV only in limited quantities in those waters. They have been found in very large quantities along the Gulf coast of Florida, and many of our people have been engaged in that industry for a great many years. ^Ir. LiTTLEFiELD. lu the line of the legal proposition, let me make this suggestion: In my State Ave have State legislation regulating the digging of clams, Avhich our courts have universally sustained. It may be, of course, that the States can regulate it so long as the National Government does not see fit to do so. Our courts have held that thei'e is no State legislation which can authorize the building of a fish weir or the building of Avharves unless they first get the ])ermission of the United States Government, under the legislation vesting that power in the Secretary of AVar. Our courts recognize his power as exclusive to regulate wharves and harbors, but when it comes to the question of shellfish, Avhich are treated as fish floating in the sea, our legislation on the part of the State is universally sus- tained. We have a regulation Avhich prohibits the resident of one town going into another town and digging clams Avithin the limits of that toAvn, which has been sustained. Mr. Wilson. Does the law in your State prohibit a resident in one part of the State from going into another section to dig clams? Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Ycs ; the selectmen haA^e charge of that. Mr. Hf:mphrey. The fish laAvs in our State are all regulated by the State. PROTECTION OF THE SPOXGE INDUSTRY. & Mr. Wilson. As I understand Mr. Littlefield, in his State a man from an adjoinino- town can not oo into another town and fish? ]Mr. LiTTi.EFiEi.!). Yes ; that is the h\w. I do not know that there is anythino: in this suagestion, but it struck me that it was pretty close to the line. Mr. Sparkman. I understand that Mr. Littlefield's criticism does not apply so much to Senate bill 480() as it does to Senate bill 4805. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Possibly, under the power to regulate commerce, we might have authority to pass 4806. Let me make another inquiry. Of course you will not feel that I am undertaking to distract you from your line of argument, but I want to get information, so that w^e can act intelligently upon it. What is the fact down there with relation to the title to these sponges? Do you have the common-law rule there that the title of the riparian OAvner runs to low -water mark? Mr. Spark^ian. The title of the i-iparian owner goes to the channel. The State has divested itself of all right, title, and interest from the shore to the edge of the channel, which means to the navigable part of the channel. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Tlicsc sponges grow in salt water? Mr. Sparkman. Yes, sir. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. If you had a deed down there for a piece of land bounded by the shore, it would stop at high-water mark: and if a man had a deed bounded by the Atlantic Ocean, he would still stop, under your rule, at high-water mark. With us, in New" England, if a man had a deed bounded by the Atlantic Ocean, his deed would carry him to low-water mark, and the result of that would be he would have title to everything that grew" on that shore, such as rock^veed, for in- stance. He would not have any title to clams, because they can be taken just like fish, and people may lawfully go on his land and take clams; but he would hold everything that is affixed to the realty. For instance, no one could build a wharf on it without getting his personal permission. With you. as I understand it. the right of the riparian proprietor runs only to high-Abater mark. Mr. Sparkaian. No; the riparian owner owns the absolute title, you may say, to high-w^ater mark, but from high-water mark to the edge of the channetthe State has di^'ested itself of all its rights and vested them in the riparian proprietor. The supreme court of the State of Florida, however, has held that the State still owns all valu- able deposits on the bottom, from high-water mark to the edge of the channel. They held that in some of the phosphate cases. Whether they would hold that the riparian proprietors OAvn these sponges I do not know, but I believe not. Still, that is an academic question here, because there are no sponges in the submerged lands that belong to individuals. They are out beyond that and, being in the nature of fish, they are probably owned by the public. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Then, as I understand you, sponges as a rule groAV beyond low-water mark? Mr. Sparkman. Yes; they grow beyond loAv-Avater mark. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Tliev do not grow except under water? Mr. Spark:man. They only grow under Avater. The Chairman. They are found usually about 10 miles from the shore. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Then they do not involve the ([uestion of pri\"ate 6 PEOTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTEY. ownershiiD at all, and the matter is not within the jurisdiction of Congress. Mr. BiRDSALL. I do not think this bill contemplates control in any water that is not within the jurisdiction of the United States, Mr. Sparkmak. The first bill onlv deals with the waters of the United States. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Anything up to high-water mark is within the jurisdiction of the United States. Mr. Hu^iPHREv. I suggest that we let Mr. Sparkman make a statement of the facts, and then we. can discuss these questions in committee amongst ourselves. Mr. Sparkman. I am under the impression that while the State had jurisdiction, the Ignited States also had jurisdiction, and that AA-e can enact such legislation as is contem])latc'd here and the courts will uphold it. "^ Now, Mr. Chairman, the necessity for this legislation arises from the fact that the sponges in the Florida AA^aters are threatened AAutli extermination unless some legislation of this kind is enacted. Here- tofore the business has been carried on by people living in Key West and other places in Florida. There are several thousand peojjle en- gaged in the business and the people have now been engaged in it for probably fifty years. They have A^ery crude methods of gathering these sponges, and the gathering of them had until recently about kept pace Avith the demand. Within the past fcAv years, howcAa^r, on account of the great number of people engaged in the business, the output has gone beyond that. 4 Recently, too, and Avithin the last fifteen months a lot of (xreeks, whose sponge gTOunds in the Mediterranean and in the Avaters off the coast of Africa have been exhausted by reason of fishing Avith diving apparatus, Avhich permit them to go doAvn to very great depths into the sea, liaA^e exhausted the sup])ly there, and those gov- ernments Avithin whose Avaters the sponges are fou.nd have adopted restrictive measures by way of legislation, Avhich have compelled them to go out of business or to seek other fields; and they have come into the United States — into Florida waters — Avith their diAdng outfits, and for the last year and a half haA^e been gathering sponges there to such an extent that they haA'e not only brought down the price of sponges 50 per cent, but haA^e practically driA^en the Ameri- cans out of the business and threaten the supply Avith absolute ex- haustion. ' The way our Key Westers haA^e of gathering sponges is to go out in a small boat on a clear day OA^er the sponge grounds, and by looking through an arrangement like a bucket with a glass bottom, they can discoA^er the sponges to a depth, it is said, of 50 feet. By using a long hook they can hook and gather them in that Avay. In fact, all of the sponges that have been gathered in the United States in the past forty or fifty years have been gathered in that way until these Greeks came upon the scent. Noav, they can send a diA^er down 40, 50, 60, TO, or 100 feet and he can stay doAvn four or five hours. He Avalks along the bottom of the Gulf until he comes upon a bed of sponges. He then gathers such as he wants. In this way he can gather immense quantities in a day. Having gathered a sack full he gives the signal to have that taken up, and then he goes on repeat- PBOTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDL'STRY. 7 ing the operation until his powers of endurance are exhausted, when they pull liim up and send down another man. In addition to that, these people tread, so it is said, upon the sponges in the bottom to such an extent that they are killing out the young sponges and destroying them, so that in a very few years it is feared the suj)ply will be exhausted, as has been the case in the waters of the Mediterranean and other waters in that section of the world. The necessity for this legislation rests on those facts. Mr. Humphrey, of Washington. Allien they fish in deep water does it destroy them so that the}' do not propagate in shallow water? Mr. Sparkman. They are constantly destroying the young sponges. Perhaps one time going over the sponge beds, or a dozen times, would not destroy them, but it is claimed that eventually the beds will be killed. JNIr. Hu^iPHREY, of Washington. As I understand it, the Greeks go out where the water has never been fished before. Does the de- struction of them in deep water prevent their propagation in the waters where these Americans have been fishing ; and what effect will the fishing in deep water have on the supply where these men have already fished ? Mr. Sparkman. Of course, while we do not like it, we can not complain of anybody going out into the waters of the world to fish in them ; but inasmuch as the tendency is to destroy the beds and drive our people out of the business, it is thought best to pass this bill (S. 4806), which is intended to forbid the Greeks from bringing their catch into the waters of the United States. ,/ At first it was thought best to pass Senate bill 4805, but it was found that the passage of that bill alone would not meet the situation. The Greeks would just go outside of the waters of the United States, outside of the 3-mile limit, and fish there, where they would finally deplete and destroy the l)eds, which would to some extent affect those on the inside, because, as I understand from a pamjjhlet I have here, which is a report made by the Fish Commission to the Senate ten years ago, the sponge is propagated naturally by germs floating around over the water and attaching themselves to any hard sub- stance Avith which they came in contact, somewhat like an oyster. It is chiimed that diving will destroy these germs, if permitted, even outside of the 3-mile limit, which would of course affect the propaga- tion within the whole territory where sponge is grown. Mr. Hi^MPHREY. That is the point I was trying to set at a moment ago. ]Mr. Sparkman. That is one of the reasons they assign for desiring the passage of this bill. Further than that, the very successful methods which these Greeks have of fishing for these sponges is driving the Americans out of the business. jMr. LiTTLEFiELD. We could employ the same methods, if it was a commercia 1 proposit ion . Mr. Sparkman. Eventually we could, perhaps; but, as I said a moment ago, the adoption of that method with no restrictions would finally destroy all these beds on the outside, and I am rather in favor of reserving them for the Americans, if it can be done within the proper legislative limits. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. What is the value of the industry annually ? 8 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTBY, Mr. Sparkman. I have no information upon that point as yet, but T do not suppose that the vahie of the outfit is yet very great. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. What I mean to ask is whether you have any idea as to the annual vahie of the industry. Mr. Sparkmax. I have no information at this time, but I can get that for you. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. It is not specially material. I did not know but what you might have it at hand. Mr. Sparkman. You might say that it is a million dollars in round figures. I should think it would soon reach that figure. Sponges have heretofore been very valuable, but they have now been reduced in price about 50 per cent, perhaps more, by reason of the operations of these Greeks. Mr. Wilson. Does this sponge fishery exist except on the Florida coast ? Mr. Sparkman. NoAvhere except on the Florida waters and waters adjacent to Florida. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. There is a pretty stiff proposition in section 4. Of course there is no question about the fact that they have the right to fish outside of the 3-mile limit. Section 4 provides : If any foreign vessel shall be found within the waters to which this act ap- plies, having on board fresh or cured sponges and apparatus or implements suitable for gathering or taking sponges, it shall be presumed that the vessel and apparatus was used in violation of this act until it is otherwise sufficiently proved. That shifts the burden of proof in a criminal ])rosecution. Mr. Wilson. You ought to have the law su-fRciently strong. Mr. Spark:man. Yes; if we have it at all we want it to accomplish the purpose for which it is intended. Mr. Patterson. I have here a report giving the value of the indus- try for the year 1897, and ehtimating it at somewhere near $385,000. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. I do iiot quitc catch the point of the statement of Commissioner Bowers, in his letter of April T, 1006, Avhere he says: The provision of section 4 which limits the sizes of sponges that may be gathered seems to come within the purview of the State, and. in fact, has been incorporated in the laws of Florida, although little effort has been made to enfoi'ce it. I think he has gotten mixed on the bill. What do you suppose he refers to there ? Mr. Spark^fan. I suppose he refers to the legislation of Florida, , regulating the sizes of the sponges that may be taken out of the waters. He is mistaken about that, I believe. The Florida statute confines the sponges that may be taken to 4 inches and upward. Mr. Spight. That is the State law. Mr. Spark?iian. That is the State law; l)ut the trouble is that the State laAv is not enforced. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Ts it a fact that, as he states here, no effort is made to enforce it ? Mr. Sparkman. I think that is true. I know it is true of our game laws. Nobody has tried very seriously to enforce theui, except in rare instances. Mr. HiNSiiAW. Do you think the United States could enforce this law? PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 9 Mr. Sparkmax. I think the United States could come nearer to enforcing- it than the State of Florida, as the General Government has better facilities for detecting and arresting offenders. The CHAiR:\rAN. Are you aware that there are something like a thousand jjrotests against the passage of this bill ? Mr. Sparkmax. Where do they come from? The Chairmax. From Key West and half a dozen other places. Mr. AViLsox. What class of people sign those protests? Mr. Sparkmax". Give me the names of some of them. There was a committee here from Key West a few months ago, and they favored the passage of these very bills. The CiiAiRMAx. If 3"ou will give me a chance I will give you some light on this subject, so that you will understand it. Here is a pro- test addressed to the chairman and members of the Comndttee on Foreign Relations. I suppose that is the committee of the Senate. It says: We. the undersigned American citizens, residents of tlie counties of Hills- boro and Pasco, in tlie State of Florida, having read the protest made by the persons engaged in talcing sponges off the coast of Florida by diving, and being thoronghly familiar with the situation, do respectfully submit to your com- mittee that the said protest is well founded and should be given due consider- ation. We do further state that the passage of Senate bill No. 480(i would practically /lestroy the sponging industry in so far as the State of Florida is concerned. And we further state that it is our opinion the passage of the bill prohibiting diving for sponges in waters less than 48 feet in depth, and prohibiting the taking of sponges less than 5 inches in diameter would thoroughly protect the sponge industry, and would be to the best interests of the public in general. That protest is signed by the First National Bank of Tampa, the Exchange National Bank of Tampa, the Citizens' Banking and Trust Company of Tampa, the Bank of Ybor City, Fla., the American National Bank, the Tampa Foundry and Machine Company, and many others. Mr. Sparkmax. Is the date of that protest given ( I think I know all about that. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Tampa is your town, is it not ? The CiiAiRMAx. No; there is no date given. Mr. Sparkmax. That protest came up when the bills were first introduced. They were introduced at the instigation of the people at Key West, and these protestauts, thinking the bills would hurt them, sent in these protests; but afterwards withdrew them, as I un- derstand it. The Chairmax*. Here is another protest, signed by a great number of individuals, who say they live in Hillsl^oro and Pasco counties. Here is another, and still another, and still another. Then there nre three long protests, saying that they have read the other protests and agree with them. Mr. SPARK:\rAX. You do not find any from Key West, do you? The Chairmax. I do not know that I do. I can not tell al)out that, because there are so many of them. I have here what seems to be a protest signed by citizens of Tarpon Springs and vicinity, which says : We, the undersigned citizens of the TTnited States, residing at Tarpon Springs and vicinity, in the State of Florida, and engaged in the business of obtaining sponges l)y diving, desire to enter a protest before your committee against the passage of Senate hill N^o. 4S(Mi. and. in support of oiu" opposition, would respect- fnllv state the following facts : 10 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTEY. First. Tiii'iioi! Siirings is the l;irgest sijonge uiarket in tlie T'uited States, and practically does about !Kt per cent of tlie si)onjie business of the United States. Second. We. the undersigned, liave invested in vessels and paraphernalia for gathering sponges of approximately .$200.(»usi- ness and cause their removal from this region. Fourth. In the opinion of the undersigned there is no reason for the iias- sage of Senate bill No. 4S()(i, as it would do no good either to the (iovernment. the peo])le engaged in sponging, oi' the consxuners of sponges. Fifth. In the opinion of the undersigned the i)assage of Senate bill No. 48U<) would result either in the loss to the markets of the world of all the sponges in water deeper than 4,S feet, for the reason that the old method of hooking sponges can not be successfully carried on in water deeper than 48 feet, or in driving the sponge business out of the United States. As, if the bill should be passed and the courts should sustain the same as a proper police regulation, the grounds upon which the diving is done Iteing ujion the high seas and beyond the .iurisdietion of the T'nited States, the resiilt would be that the sponges would still be taken from these waters by diving and the only result would be that the vessels therein engaged \>ould land their cargoes either iii)on the island of Cuba, the Bahama Islands, or some other foreign country. The mere matter of distance from the sponging banks to the foreign port would make very little difference in the business, it being a fact that the fishing smacks of both Cuba and the Bahamas catch most of their fish off the Florida coast and transport them to their home ports. Sixth. In order that your connnittee may fully understand the conditions pre vailing, we beg to state that of our own actual knowledge taking sponges by the old method of hooking is impracticable in waters over a derith of S fathoms: that by reason of the continual taking of sponges for many years past in waters less than 4S feet and where hooking is i)racticable. and by reason of the fact that many small sjionges have been taken, the sjionging on the banks within a depth of 48 feet and within a distance of 15 miles from the shore has ])ractically been exhausted. The consequence of this has been that the prices of sponges have been going higher and higher and the consumer has been re- quired to pay move than was reasonable for his sponges. The diving in water from a depth of 48 feet and o\er has been carried on long enough off the coast of Hillslioro County to demonstrate the fact that there are vast (juantities of marketable sponges in the waters of this and greater depths, and the only way to gather these s])onges is by the use of diving apparatus. In confirma- tion of the above statements we beg to call the connnittee's attention to the report made by the Commissioner of Fisheries to the Secretarv of Connuerce and Labor. .lune ?,0, 1005, page 20 : Seventh. In short, the old method of gathering sponges by the use of hooks affixed to poles operated from tlu' surface has ceased to result in profit either to the operator, fishermen, or dealers engaged therein. It was for this reason that the diving method was introduced, that sponges might be taken from the vii'gin grciunds lying in greater depth than 48 feet, and beyond the limit of the use of poles and hooks. That gathering sponges by diving in the deeper waters will permit the replenishing of the shallow-water grounds in a period of tw^o or three years, but the prohibition of the diving method now will inevitably destroy the entire industiw to our people. Eighth. In conclusion, recognizing that the (iovei-nment is as much interested in the protection of the sponges as we are. we would suggest from practical ex- perience that the only legislation needed and which would accomplish the end in view would be a law i)rohibitin,ir the use of the diving method in waters less than 48 feet in depth, and a further enactment making it milawful for any i»er- son, persons, or corporation to take, offer for sale, or have in possession any sponge less than 5 inches in diameter, measured when wet. at its greatest diam- eter. The passage of such a law would allow the gathering of sponges sufficient to supply the market and would at the same time, l),v forcing the sponges to be taken from deeper waters, allow the shallow grounds to recuperate. Senate bill 480(5 was introduced March 1, so that these protests are since the introduction of the bill. Mr. Sparkman. They have withdrawn those protests. I know PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY, 11 something about that. Senator Taliaferro himself is a stockholder and dii'ector in the First National Bank of Tampa and, up to a few years ago, was its president. The president of the bank, who is his brother. Avired him upon the introduction of these bills, in substance, that they were objected to by the people in that section, many of whom were doing business with the First Xational Bank and other banks there: that these people Avere opi)osed to the passage of the bills, and AA'ould send protests later against their passage. These pro- tests came. But afterAvards, Avhen they found out the nature of the bills, they AA'ithdrew their objection. The president of the bank in Tampa not more than tAAo AA-eeks ago told me that he was satisfied, rhat he desired these bills passed, and that he thought all the people, AA'ith the exception of the Greeks, desired the same thing. The Chair:max. These people all saA' that thcA' are citizens of the United States. Mr. (toldex. This bill is within the ])roAnsi()ns of their protest, as I read it. Mr. Wilson. Who is this gentleman. John K. Cheyney, aaIio heads this protest ? Mr. Sparkman. He is a man Avho deals in sponges at Tarpon Springs: but I saAA' the other day in a Tampa paper an interA-icAA' AAith him in Avhich he connnitted himself absolutely to these two bills, and said there Avas no objection to them. I am satisfied that is correct. A hiAvyer in Tampa, I Avas informed, dreAV the paper referred to by the chairman, and a copy of the same AA'as sent to me some AA-eeks ago. I haA'e that paper, but I did not consider it of any use noAv. because the people AA'ho got that up and got those signatures are noAv in favor of the passage of the bills. The Chairman. Here is a document of a similar character, signed by the president of the Board of Trade of Tarpon Springs, the secre- tary, treasurer. State commissioner, the entire cit}^ council, city clerk, solicitor, marshal, justices of the peace, notaries public, physicians, druggists, merchants, etc. — more people than I thought thei'e were in Tarjjon Springs. Mr. HiNSHAAV. Does not this proA'iso bring it AA'ithin the protest : " Sponges taken between October and May in a greater depth than 50 feet should not be subject to the provisions of this act? ■' Mr. LrrTLEFiEiA), The Fish Commissioner discusses that subject. I Avill read Avhat he says in a few moments. Mr. Sparkman. If you Avill permit me for just one moment. I know just hoAv that document Avas gotten up and by Avhat influences it Avas gotten up. It was gotten up principally by Mr. Cheyney. He Avas doing business with the First National Bank, and he went OA'er to Tampa and enlisted the aid of the president and others in getting up that protest and getting the signatures Avhich you see attached to it. protesting against the passage of this bill. Afterwards the people of Key West themseh^es came here, and Avhen they saAv these bills they Avere satisfied, so I am advised. The people of Hillsboro County haA'e communicated Avith me to some extent, and I knoAv from them that many of the business men and the men Avho got up these protests are uoav satisfied Avith this legislation. I can state that positively. 12 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. The Chairman. Why did not Senator Taliaferro send that with- drawal here with this bundle of protests? Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. A^^io niakes the application for this legislation? Mr. Spark:man. The Key A\>st people started it. I have a letter from one of the leading Key Westers in favor of this legislation. The trouble was with the Hillsboro County people, and. you may say, with the Tarpon Springs people. Here is a letter from a man who lives there, W. H. Decker, who is now running for the State legislature in Hillsboro County and will very probably be elected. He is a very prominent man there, and I believe his name will appear somewhere on that list. He wires me to this effect: Try to use your Influence with the committee in favor of the consideration of the Taliaferro bill. We all favor it here. Opposition comes from Greeks. But if the committee desire to have any further investigation made I would be very glad to assist them in any way I can in making it, by looking up what the decisions may have been on the subject of the power of Congress, or in any other way. Mr. Humphrey. I am not yet clear as to the advantage in prohibit- ing the bringing of sponges into the United States when they are taken outside the three-mile limit. "V^^iat is your answer to the objection raised that if the United States did not permit it the fishing will be carried on just the same, and the product will be taken to other countries ? Mr. Sparkman. That was the claim made at first. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Of course if they come in in that way it will wipe out the local industry. The Chairman. How can that be prevented? The question is. What will be the result of this legislation ? Mr. Sparkman. In the first place the United States is the largest market for sponges gathered so near to the United States, and when you consider the tax upon sponges going into Cuba and the tax upon them coming into this country (I am told there is a duty upon sponges imported into Cul)a). it would seem impracticable to carry on the business that way. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. It would be practically prohibitory. Mr. Sparkman. Yes; that is what they claim. Mr. Humphrey. Is there not practically a sponge trust in this country? Is not To per cent of the product controlled l^y a firm in New York, which is urging this resolution ? Mr. Sparkman. That I could not tell you; but I should say it is quite probable. Mr. Hu:n[phrey. It is my ojnnion that a firm in Xew York controls the sponge industry in this country, and that they are urging this legi hition because of competition from the outside. A firm in New York by the name of James. Shell and somebody controls the sponge industry of this country, or at least controls about 75 per cent of the output, and they are urging this legislation because this deep-sea fishing and the bringing of the products into the United States is beyond their control. Mr. Fordney. And reducing the price to the consumer. Mr. Hi mpiirey. And reducing the price to the consumer. They are trying to control prices. The CHAiR:\rAx. You only have to have a dream in order to start a trust. PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTEY. 15 Mr. Spark >i AX. I know that the agitation came from the Key West people, and they were very bitter about it. Mr. IIiMi'HREY. Bnt I know about this. I knoAv there is a hrm of this name and that their representatives have been here urging this legislation. I have that nmch information which I am sure about, whether it is imagination or in the air or where it is. 1 have got the man's name, and he has been here for the purpose of urging this legislation. Mr. Sparkman. I should say that it is possible, with the limited output, for the product to get into the hands of what vou might call a trust, but I do know that the agitation originated' in Key West. There are a great many individuals interested in the sponge business at Tarpon Springs who are doing business with the First National Bank of Tampa, and notwithstanding the fact that Senator Talia- ferro is a director in that bank, and these protests Avere originally signed by these people, he thought it was his duty to try to pass it through the Senate, as it certainly was. Mr. FoRDXEY. ]May I ask you a question for information? Is it not true that the object of bill 4806 is to prevent the sponges gathered in this locality from coming into the United States market, unless they are gathered by citizens of the United States ? As I understand it now, they are not being gathered by citizens of the United States, and the sole object of the bill is to prevent a lowering of the price of sponges in our market. Mr. Sparkman. No, sir. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Not altogether that. It is to preserve the local industry in Florida. Mr. Fordney. The local industry does not get these deep-sea fish. All of that fishing is done by aliens, and what you want to prevent is the product from coming into our market. Mr. Spark:max. We want to prevent aliens from fishing with this diving apparatus as far as possible. Mr. Spight. In connection Avith your question, Mr. Sparkman has just stated that the taking of these sponges in this way has reduced the price of sponges about 50 per cent. Mr. FoRDXEY. And that is what he Avants to prevent. Mr. SpARKMAx. I think in the course of time the Americans Avill learn to dive in these diving outfits, but they haA^e not yet learned to do so, and I understand it takes three or four years to accjuire the art. The CHAIRMAX^ I have here a letter dated March 29, from Senator Taliaferro's brother, which I think is a pretty sensible letter, and I Avant to call ydur attention now to it. He says : I have had a talk A\'ith Mr. Cheyney. who represents our Anclote friends, and he writes yon to-day. Tlie position of the Anelote people is that they object to hostile legislation that would destroy all hope of seenrin.tr deep-water production ; yet they admit that, owing to the great influx of the Greeks, some legislation is needed to pre- vent the destruction of the industry. The Greeks continue to swarm in. and boats are being constructed in New York, along the Atlantic, and all around the Gulf to New Orleans. It AA-ould really appear that it is imperative to do something promptly to check the rapacity of these foreigners. From the foregoing you will see that we are not unwilling to admit that there is some merit in the contention of the Key Westers. Mr. Cheyney suggests a bill — First. Prohibiting sponge diving (at all times) within water less than 8 fath- oms deep. 14 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. Secontl. Prohibit sponge diving during the five mouths froui May 1 to Octo- ber 1. Third. Prohibit aliens from taking sponges (either as flshermeu, boat owners, or operators). Fourth. Prohii)it any ])erson, company, or corporation to gather any sponge of less than o inches in diameter, measured when wet at its greatest diameter. It seems to me such a liill would accomplish great good and at the same time satisfy both Key West and Anclote. because, first. Key West can not take sponges at a greater depth than 8 fathoms : second, the hookers practically do all of their sponge fishing during the mouths from May 1 to October 1, when operators (I mean divers) would be barred. The third and fourth clauses I understand Key West is asking for. Of course it does appear, and is. inconsistent to prohibit diving from May 1 to October 1 and allow hooking, and as a matter of fact the hooking should also be prohibited, too. for reasons to follow, but the Anclote people realize that those are the months the weather suits for hooking, and they do not want to hurt those people. As we understand it. there is no bill pending against hooking, and we here want no restrictions placed thereon. There is a bill, however, against diving, .and as a compromise we suggest the four clauses afoi-estated. It is claimed that the time suggested for " the closed season " — ^lay 1 to October 1 — is the season when the sponge reproduce or throw off their ova. They say the Fish Commission would certify this to be a fact, hence, reall.y no sponges should be taken at such time: but the shoal water is a small item com- pared with the other beds, and our people would rather satisf,y them and leave it so the hookers or Key Westers may take the sponges when and where they can get them. I can see no objection to such a bill, and if it be enacted I believe it would satisfy all concerneil hut the impecunious Greek, and he needs the check. Pardon the length of this, but I could not cover the ground sooner. Mr. Spx\rkman. Notwithstanding that letter, I talked Avith Mr. Taliaferro in Tampa the other day, and he told me the objection to the bills had been withdrawn. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Here is a letter from the Commissioner of Fi.sh- eries, which goes over this same ground. The CiTAiRMAX. I have a 16-page argviment in faA'or of the passage of these bills, submitted by James Shell & Elkers, of Xcav York, on yesterday. Mr. IIuMPHREY. That is the firm I had reference to. I do not state that they are a trust, but do state as a fact that they are here, and that they have their agent here. The Chairimax. I think that if the committee agrees with me we should give a little more consideration to these bills before recom- mending their passage. Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. I think we should look into it a little more. On general principles I would be glad to do anything we can legitimately do to take care of Brother Sparkman's people. So far as I am con- cerned, I am perfectly willing to take care of his people down there; but I find that the Commissioner of Fisheries suggests some diiRculty in the line I suggested about our legal power to pass these bills; so that I was not the one to discover that objection. The Chairman. Suppose we refer this subject to a selected commit- tee of five to consider and report at the next meeting a week from to- day? I call the attention of Mr. Sparkman to the suggestions that have been made here, and ask him to prepare an argument in regard to the matter. The chair will appoint Mr. Hinshaw, Mr. Birdsall, Mr. Wilson, Mr. Spight, and Mr. Patterson as a select committee to consider this matter. The papers are all with the secretary. PEOTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. . 15 Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries, House or Kepresentatives, Was/ibujton, D. C, April £o, 1906. The subcommittee met at 2 o'clock p. m.. Hon. Edward H. Hin- shaw in the chair. The Chairman. We will first hear from Doctor Smith, who has come here from the Department at our request to give us some in- formation of an original character with reference to sponges, and the depth of water in which they are produced. STATEMENT OF HON. HUGH M. SMITH, OF THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND LABOR. Mr. S.aiith. Mr. Chairman, I did not come here prepared to make an agrument, as I did not know upon exactly what lines you would want me to speak. The Bureau of Fisheries has been interested in the sponge industry for a great many years. I have personally investigated the sponge beds in Florida and else- where', and we have had numerous investigations made, some at the request of Congress. We have endeavored to keep Avell informed as to the condition of the industry, and we are in a position to give the committee such information as it may desire. The Chairman. I would suggest to the menibtjs of the s,ibc(im- mittee that if they desire to ask any questions. Doctor Smith is here for the purpose of answering them and giving us such information as we want. Mr. Smith. There seems to be a good deal ot doubt as to what a sponge really is. For many years it was regarded as a plant; later - on it was thought to be on the border line between the plant and the animal kingdom; but we have now learned that it is an animal, and not very low down in the scale. The sponge, as we know it m common use. is simply the skeleton of a colony of animals Avhich inhabited that skeleton. Mr. AViLSON. What kind of animals inhabit the skeleton ? Mr. Smith. The animals are single cells. Mr. Wilson. Are they all of the same kind? Mr. Smith. They are all microscopic and have different functions. -^ You can compare a sponge to a hive of bees. Some of the bees are for the purpose of keeping up the hi^'e by reproduction, and some are for replenishing the supply of honey and extending the coml). Mr. Spioht. A\^iat has your investigation led you to conclude as to the manner of propagation? Mr. Smith. Sponges propagate, as all animals do, by means of l^ ^gg>- The eggs are fertilized within the sponge and are thrown off by the currents of water which circulate through the sponge, coming out as minute round bodies, covered with hairs, which have the power of movement. They pulsate and enable the young ones to move around in the water and to pursue a free swimming existence for several days. The Chairman. How far does it move from the parent before it attaches to some substance? Mr. Smith. It may be carried for long distances by the currents, but finallv it falls to the bottom and thenceforth is fixed. Itj ^ PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTEY. Mr. Spight. Does it attach to anything except rock? Mr. Smith. Yes: it will attach itself to vegetable matter, to wood, plants, and also to shells and bottles just as an oyster would. The CirAiKMAN. Hoav far out into the sea does this occur ? In what depth of water? Mr. 8:\nTH. We have never been able to learn just how far out into the (lulf of Mexico sponges extend, as diving has only recently begun; but we know that they grow at a depth of 50 feet and a little over, because the hookers can reach them there and have reached them there. The recent inception of diving has shown that the sponges grow in deeper waters. Mr. Wilson. Do they form themselves into little schools, or may the3^ be found in any part of the bottom of the sea ? V Mr. Smith. The young settle to the hard bottom. If they get into the sand or the jnud. they will be covered and destroyed ; so that the best sponges groAv on the hard coralline bottom that crops out all along the west coast of Florida and about the Florida Keys. Mr. Wilson. Do you think that the divers, by walking along the bottom of the ocean Avhere they are found, would be likely to destroy the growth of these sponges by stepping on them ? Mr. Smith. I think it is possible for divers to injure the sponges groAving on the bottom : but I myself do not believe that is a very serious menace to the sponge industry. Mr. AA^'iLSON. You do not think it is ? Mr. Smith. No, sir. Mr. Wilson. Are you familiar with these bills, which are before the House? Mr. Smith. Yes. sir: and we think that the sponge industry of Florida needs some attention. Florida is the only State where sponges grow, and suitable protective measures should be instituted by the Government and the State, or by both, to keep up the supply indefinitely. The Chairman. Do you think that diving threatens the existence of the sponges ? Mr. Smith. It would aj^pear so to us, from the study we have been able to give the matter. Mr. Wilson. I thought you said you did not think it would. Mr. Smith. I understood you to refer to injury to the sponges by reason of the shoes of the diver. Mr. Spight. Then I understand you think that destruction will be due to taking the sponges in such large quantities? Mr. Smith. In the depletion of the sponge beds. Mr. Spight. If that is so with reference to diving, why is it not also true with reference to continuous hooking? Mr. Smith. That is a very apt question, and I am prepared to answer it. The sponge industry has been prosecuted by means of hooks for many years, and limitations on the capture of sponges have been, to a considerable extent, imposed by nature. For instance, sponging can not be carried on when the water is rough. Mr. Spight. You mean hooking. V Mr. Smith. Yes: hooking. Furthermore, in the course of every two or three years the water becomes cloudy, and when that condition of w^ater exists, as it does over large areas on the west coast of Florida, it is not possible to see the bottom, and consequently the PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY, 17 sponges are protected by nature and they have a season for recupera- tion. The cloudy water may continue for several seasons in succes- sion, so that a bed which has been stripped pretty clean of sponges of a marketable size will, as a result of this cloudy water, be able to reassert itself. Mr. Patterson. How long will that take? Mr. SaiiTH. As determined by some experiments that we have been ^ making, the growth is not very rapid; but a sponge which is much too small to be taken to market will probably increase in one season to a marketable size. If your committee is sufficiently interested in it, I would like to show you a few sponges I have here, which will enable me to do a little missionary work for the Bureau of Fisheries in this regard, because we have anticipated the depletion of the Florida sponge * grounds. Although the sponge industry is only a little over fifty years old, a very large proportion of the ground on which sponges originally grew has been depleted. All of the inshore grounds, the shoal-water grounds, are absolutely exhausted ; they were naturally the first to be depleted. Mr. HiNSHAAV. They have been depleted by the hookers ? Mr. Smith. Yes; and every season the hookers have had to carry their operations into deeper waters, until now they have reached the limit. There is one point in regard to these deep-w^ater sponges which the divers are supplying to the market and which can not be reached by the hookers. It is quite possible that these sponges sup- ply the seed by which the grounds farther inshore are kept up. Certainly the sponges in 60 feet of water, which are large sponges, will liberate every year millions and millions of eggs, and are able to >>- distribute their progeny over a very large area. Of course most of those eggs are lost, as they fall on a soft bottom and are destroyed, just as is the case with manv fishes. They lay a million of eggs, but 999,000 are lost. The sponge, as it comes out of the water, is a very different look- ing animal from what it is in the drug store. Here is one which has been preserved with the soft matter intact. It has a black, slimy skin, which covers the outside for the protection of the interior, ^ which is filled with soft matter, and which has to be rotted out before the sponge is put on the market. The Chairman. Is that a sponge just as it comes out of the water? Mr. S^NiiTH. Yes; it has been preserved to prevent it from smelling. Mr. Wilson. I should think it would be a hard matter to hook these sponges in water of any considerable depth. Mr. Smith. It is a difficult matter. It is a very laborious opera- tion, especially in deep water, when the waves are running. The man has to lean over the boat with his chest on the gunwale. There is a double set of canals in the sponge, through some of which the water runs from the outside to the inside, and through the others, the larger canals, in which water runs from within outward. In the ^ smaller canals, leading from without inward, are little dilated pas- sages, and they are lined with small cells Avhich have hairs in them; and those hairs are working one direction, like a field of grain with the wind blowing over it. The hairs determine the existence of the currents, which are essential for the growth of the sponge. 8 1—06 2 18 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. Mr. Wilson. Has not this specimen been cut in two ? Mr. Smith. Yes; that has been cut in two to show the interior of the sponge. I have here also a few commercial sponges. Here is one showing what can be done with a Florida sheep's-wool sponge when properly treated. I may say here that for all the purposes for which we use sponges — for toilet, mechanical, and other uses — there is no sponge produced anywhere in the world which will compare with the Florida sheep's-wool sponge. Mr. Wilson. Do you mean that is the best sponge produced ? Mr. Smith. It is the best quality of sponge for toilet and other purposes. The Chairman. Is that a Eock Island sponge? Mr. Smith. Is is essentially the same as a liock Island sponge; it is the same species. For lasting quality and durability there is no sponge put on the market to-day that will compare with or com- pete Avith our Florida sponge, and for that reason, if for no other, we ought to do what we can to keep up the supply. The Chairman. And this sheep's-wool sponge is threatened with extinction ? Mr. Smith. The supply of it is certainly decreasing on our own grounds. Mr. Wilson. How" old is this sponge you have here? Mr. Smith. The growth of a sponge, like the growth of a fish, '''depends upon its food. Under favorable conditions I should say that sponge might reach such a size in three or four years. It is probably not less than three or four years old. Mr. BiRDSALL. Is that Rock Island sponge the same character and quality of sponge that is now being taken by the divers? Mr. Smith. Yes; that is the kind of sponge the divers are taking. Mr. Wilson. "NA-liat is the cause of the color ? Mr. Smith. It is this color when'it comes out of the water; but as the result of bleaching and cleaning it becomes lighter. This one has been artificially bleached. Mr. Wilson. This is the natural color of the sponge? Mr. Smith. Yes. The Chairman. We have been told here that these sponges in the markets have some of this substance left in them. Mr. Smith. Yes; the trade seems to require it. The Chairman. These do not appear to have it. Mr. Smith. No, sir; they are cleaned; but that substance increases their weight. From what I know of the business, I believe that the sponge packers do not care for that particularly, but the trade seems to demand it. The Chairman. Do you mean the wholesale or the retail trade ? Mr. Smith. The jobbing trade. We have been experimenting in the growing of sponges from clij^pings, and I believe those experi- ments will not be remotely connected with the question of preserving the supply of sponges on the Florida coast. We have found that by cutting up sponges of such a shape that they do not have much market value, we can grow from those cuttings s]3onges that are superior to the Avild ones. It is done in a very simple way and in a comparatively short time. We are still working along that line. The Chairman. It is done by some sort of cultivation? PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 19 Mr. Smith. Yes; by simply attaching the cuttings to wires or other substances to hold them in place until they grow. Mr. Wilson. Do you feed them? Mr. SiMiTH. Xo; they feed themselves. We simply provide the raw materials. Sponge cuttings, which are cuboidal in shape, when put into the water very quickly assume a symmetrical shape. These are s])onges which have been grown from cuttings on the west coast of Florida, near Anclote Keys. These are regular Rock Island sponges. Mr. Wilson. The preparation of this sponge has nothing to do with the stiffness of it ? Mr. Smith. No ; that is inherent in the sponge. Mr. Spigiit. You have to make these cuttings and plant them when the sponge is fresh out of the water? Mr. Smith. A sponge can be kept out of the water for some time if cool and moist ; perhaps for several days. We have adopted the plan of attaching the clippings to wires and suspending those wires between stakes set about 50 feet apart and putting the sponges a few feet under the surface. Mr. BiRDSALL. In salt water, of course? Mr. Smith. Yes. We have three experimental farms on the Flor- ida coast, where Ave are trying to perfect the method of growing sponges in large quantities. Mr. BiRDSALL. In its natural state, does the process of reproduc- tion go on continually? Mr. Smith. So far as we know, the sponge spawns every year. Mr. BiRDSALL. And in every portion of the year? Mr. Smith. Yes; but in Florida mostly in warm weather — in the summer months. Mr. BiRDSALL. Have you any idea in what months? Mr. Smith. I should say from the 1st of June until August. We know that in the Mediterranean the spawning season for the sponge may extend over the entire year. Probably there is a period of the year when more sponges spawn than in any other time; but ripe sponges have been gotten in the Mediterranean in every month of the year. The ChairjNian. Some one stated here yesterday that these sponges are coA'ered with a thick membrane around them. Mr. SaiiTH. Yes; that is for the protection of the sponge. The Chairman. And if that membrane is broken the eggs float away. Mr. SaiiTH. The eggs come out through the holes in the black mem- brane. In making our cuttings w^e have thought it essential to have a part of this black membrane on each, so that the sponge may re- cover itself. These I have here are about three years old, and they are superior to the wild sponges. Mr. Wilson. Are these artificially grown? Mr. Smith. Yes. The Chairman. Do they grow right on the wires? Mr. Smith. They grow right on the wires suspended above the bottom. They have a firmer texture, in many instances, than the wild sponges, and are better in other respects. Mr. Wilson. It does not look to me to be as good a sponge as the other. 20 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. Mr. Smith. The color is not so pleasing, but that has nothing to do with the quality, of course. Mr. Wilson. It seems to be more porous and much more solid. Mr. Smith. Yes; and that is a point in its favor. It is firmer in its texture and will therefore last longer. Mr. BiRDSALL. The danger which the Department apprehends is that the excessive removal of sponges will prevent sufficient repro- duction. Mr. Smith. It is possible that by going upon the sponge bottoms and removing practically every sponge the beds may be permanently destroyed. Mr. BiRDSALL. That comes from the removal of the parent sponge. Mr. Smith. The divers can keep the bottoms swept clean when the hooker, fishing 40 or 50 feet above, will not be able to do it. In ad- dition to that, as I say, once in every three or four years the sponge grounds are protected by nature, because of the cloudiness of the water, when the spongers are unable to work. Mr. BiRDSALL. What do you think of the proposition of having a closed season for sponges the same as we have inland for fish and game ? Mr. Smith. We have recommended that to the State of Florida and made a number of other recommendations to the State; but Florida has not done for the sponge industr}^ what it should have done. This is a matter which seems to be beyond the scope of the State; and it seems to me the General Government will have to step in. We have advocated the setting aside of certain areas in which no sponging shall be permitted for a period of years, and at the ex- piration of that time to open them up and close an adjoining area. Mr. Spight. You mean, of course, within the 3-mile limit? Mr. Smith. Anywhere. Unfortunately most of the sponges grow beyond the State's jurisdiction. Mr. Spight. How could you control it beyond the 3-mile limit ? Mr. Smith. That is a question for the lawyers. It might be con- trolled through the customs service. I do not know of any other way. Mr. Spight. I would like to ask your opinion as to the greatest depth at which these sponges have been found, y, Mr. Smith. In the Mediterranean they are found in water several hundred feet deep, but we do not know of any sponges in our waters growing at such a depth. Mr. Spight. You do not know that they do not ? Mr. Smith. No; we do not. Mr. Spight. So far as your information goes, you have found sponges in that locality ? Mr. Smith. We knoAv that sponges grow on the Florida coast up to 60 feet or 70 feet, but w^hether they grow in water, say at a depth of 150 feet, we do not know. Mr. Spight. You do not know beyond the 60 or 70 feet ? Mr. SariTH. No, sir. Mr. Wilson. How deep can a diver go ? Mr. Smith. I do not knoAv. I have had no experience in that busi- ness. There are some practical sponge dealers here who would know that. The Chairman. This bill before us does not prohibit the hookers working in 50 feet of water; but you say those beds are depleted. Will this bill do anything for them ? PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 21 Mr. Smith. This bill Avill not affect the operations of the hookers at all. The Chairman. It will not replenish these depleted beds. Mr. Smith. No; it will simply prevent another element of destruc- tion from coming in. The divers will undoubtedly hasten the deple- tion of the beds. "VVliether you want to permit them to work in waters beyond the reach of the hookers is another question. Person- ally I do not see, if they confine their operations to the deeper waters, that they would do any special harm; but it will be a very difficult matter to determine whether they get their sponges in water TO feet deep or in water 20 feet deep. Mr. BiRDSALL. Suppose that we prohibit diving within the 3-mile limit ? Mr. Smith. That would hardly help matters, because most of the di\dng is done beyond the 3-inile limit. It is done practically on the high seas. The water on the west coast of Florida is very shallow. You go out for many miles before 3^011 reach a depth of 50 feet. There are places where a depth of 50 feet is not reached until you are 30 or 40 miles offshore. Mr. LiNDHEiM. Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. Smith to explain what he knows about the depletion of the sponge beds in the Medi- terranean by reason of the divers cleaning out beds? Mr. Smith. I have not had an opportunity to look the matter up recently, but it is within my knowledge that the beds have been de- pleted, and the governments interested have had to take measures to protect the beds by imposing a closed season and by taxing the men, so that it was difficult for them to ply their trades. The Chairman. By a license tax? Mr. Smith. Yes. Mr. BiRDSALL. Wliat is the process of curing a sponge when it is taken out of the w^ater ? Mr. Smith. A sponge must be kept out of the water for some time in order to kill it. Mr. BiRDSALL. How long? Mr. Smith. It depends on the temperature; but for several days, at any rate, and perhaps longer, under certain conditions. Sponges are first kept on the deck of the sponge vessels, then carried ashore and put into shallow inclosures, where they are allowed to rot and at the same time to bleach. Mr. BiRDSALL. How is this substance removed from them ? Mr. Smith. By squeezing and beating. Mr. BiRDSALL. Craals were mentioned here the other day. AVliat are they? Mr. Smith. Craals are inclosures in which the sponges are allowed to rot, so that all the soft animal matter goes out of them and the skeleton is left. Then, when the cleaning has been completed, the men take their sponges and string them and carry them to market. The sponges are sold in strings and at auction. Mr. Seraphic. You speak of the depletion of the sponge beds in the Mediterranean. I would like to know how you determined that. Mr. Smith. One evidence of that is the presence of the Greek divers on our coast. If they were able to carry on a profitable business at home they would not be here. Mr. Seraphic. Then it is simply a supposition ? 22 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. Mr. Smith. No. There are reports from the United States consuls in the Mediterranean ports showing the depletion of the sponge grounds of the Mediterranean and the measures taken by the gov- ernments to protect the sponges ; but I have not looked into the mat- ter recently and am not prepared t« make any very definite statement. Mr. BiRDSALL. Suppose Ave prohibit diving and the importation of sponges taken by diving, the effect would be to confine the industry to the hookers, Avould it not ? It would accelerate their business and increase the amount taken out, otherwise sponges would have to be imported. Mr. Smith. The advent of diving has undoubtedly led to a great increase in the sponge supply, with the result of a fall in the price. Mr. BiRDSALL. Of course there will be every effort made to supply the demand. Mr. SiNiiTH. Yes. Mr. BiRDSALL. As I understand it, you are relying upon natural conditions to prevent any excessive supply from being taken out. Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; and to prevent the absolute depletion of the grounds. Mr. Seraphic. Prior, to the introduction of diving, do you know what the output of sj^onges from the Florida coast was? Mr. Smith. The value of the sponge industry on the Florida coast has been about $400,000 a year to the hookers. Mr. Seraphic. What was the area over which the fishing was done by the hookers, which resulted in a product of $400,000 a year, as compared with the area of territory that the diving method covers ? Mr. SiMiTH. Diving has only begun. It has been carried on only for a very short time, and they are covering only a portion of the northern grounds in the Gidf of Mexico. There are other grounds on the Florida coast where hookers have had full swing; but being shallow-water grounds, they have become depleted, and the sponges from those grounds now cut a very small figure in the market. The area of the sponge grounds on the Florida coast, as we surveyed them four or five years ago, was between three and four thousand square miles. That included all kinds of sponges and all degrees of thick- ness of growth. There are five or six different kinds — yellow sponges, grass sponges, etc. — which have a certain market value but which are very much cheaper than these. They are used mostly in the me- chanical arts, but not for toilet purposes, because their texture is too hard. Mr. LiNDHEiM. Is it not true that the introduction of diving, within the past nine months, has increased the production very largely ? Mr. Smith. Yes; out of all proportion to the supposed resources of the grounds. Mr. LiNDHEiM. Would not the passage of these bills draw the sponge industry to its original output plus the seven months of diving ; in other words, there would still be an increased production ? Mr. Smith. Yes; in the opinion of the bureau the bill does not go far enough. The Chairman. If these beds within the range of the hooker have been depleted, how will the output be increased to supply the de- mand ? PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 23 ]Mr. Smith. The total sujjply of sponges from the American waters has been kej^t up by taking larger quantities of the cheaper grades. I have some figures here which will show you how the percentage of sheepswool sponges has declined from year to year, which is a very significant fact in itself. Unfortunately there are no figures prior to 1805, but in that year the proportion of sheepswool sponge to the total take was 76 per cent. In the next j^ear it has fallen off to 63 per cent ; in the next year to 47 per cent, and in the year 1902, the last year for which w^e collected any accurate and complete statistics, the proportion of sheepswool sponges to the total take was only 38 per cent. In the early days of the sponge fishery practically all the sponges were of this grade, as it was not considered worth while to take the cheaper grades. The CHAiR:srAN. How does the price now compare with what it was a year or two years ago 1 Mr. Smith. The price at present is very low. The Chairman. This is a more expensive sponge than the coarser grade you refer to? Mr. Smith. Yes. Mr. Spight. If the diving Avere prevented, would the hookers be able to supply the demand? Mr. Smith. No; because we are obliged to import more sponges than Ave take. Mr. Spight. The hookers could not supply the home demand for sponges ? Mr. Smith. No, sir. Mr. Spight. Because they can not go beyond the depth of 48 or 50 feet? Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. Mr. Spight. So that all sponges beyond that depth would either be abandoned entirely or else be taken and carried to foreign points and imported through the custom-house if we got them at all? Mr. SisriTH. Yes. Mr. Spight. That state of affairs and the curtailment of the product to that extent would necessaril}'^ increase the price of sponges to the consumer, would it not ? Mr. Smith. Yes ; I suppose that would be the natural consequence. Mr. LiNDHEi^r. Is not that taken care of forever by allowing diving for seven montlis in the year ? Mr. S:mith. The dealers Avould be better able to answer questions of trade than I am. The value of these deep-Avater grounds is quite problematical. It may be that they serve no useful purpose, and it may be that they furnish the seed by Avhich the shoal-Avater grounds are replenished. Mr. Spight. That is what occurred to me a Avhile ago when I was asking you about the depth of water in which they are found. If I understood you correctly, you stated that when these eggs are throAvn off from the sponge they float on the w^ater and may be carried considerable distances. Mr. Smith. Yes; they float for forty-eight hours under certain conditions. Mr. Spight. If they are found at a very much greater depth than you have ever gone to find them, they could fertilize a large area of the country around them in the shoal waters, could they not? 24 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. mo'l?e^i?!,''nTo\K o?;v.t"'"f .1''"'' ""8'^' ^ " ''"P'*''*"" '" depths more tian lO teet ot water if they are ■constant y fished, vet the eeir'^ Mr. Smith It may be that the existence of the deep-water snon^^es re'i^ZsS' Thfho^f'^'^ ^''''' "'/^^^ ^'•'•'''^ grounds ha^befn reestaDlislied. Ihe hookers have so frequently repeated stories of the apparent cleaning out of a certain gi^und in a ceS season so far as marketable sponges are concerned, and of going back two o? gr^md^l^st fsThiH'w '' "^r '' ^^^^!^-^ "'^^-' --^ findinrth grounds just as thickly covered as ever, that we are bound to bdieve them. It would seem to me that to leave sponges on t e ground for heVXon^t stlftl"""" T'^'l '^'^""'^ ^^ ^^«^--* toTeestaWish tne Deds on the scale they are found to be reestablished. Mr. bpiGHT. So they must come from somewhere else? n. n"" .u"^' ^^'^'iV'^ ^^ ^^^^«^^ ^^'liy voung sponges in some stages could not be carried for many miles as are the iggs'of the oyster fhe young of which are very much like the young of the sponge. "' fici! culHv'a'tTon of 17'"' experiments led you to conclude that arti- nciai cultivation ot sponges can be made profitable? Mr. bMiTH. We are hardly prepared to recommend a method vet- sav tZt'JeTfT'" ""^^"^'^ '^'' '' ^' ^^"^^ t« ^^ profitable 1 i?.!ay say that one of the sponge packers and buyers in Florida has thouo-ht enough of our methods to go into it. and has alreadv markete ome sponges grown from cuttings. ' ^invLit-u some St^e' S" Fl?-"]- Tr^t^t^^^ t^^^t the bureau had recommended to the Sounds wo,d^^^^ T' ^'^''l ^'''^'^- ^'^ '^^^«Pt^^^ ^^y ^'hich the grounds A^ould be left for a certain period to recuperate and then hshing be permitted m them. Have you stated the time or per o of this suspension which you recommend ? P^i^oa oi Mr. Smith. No; the details were never discussed. It was simply a general proposition. ^vab himpiy Mr. Seraphic. You stated that the life of a sponge 4 or 5 inches in tleTtnTe of F? "t ^'' ^'''l^fl' '^''''' «^' ^«'^^^ y'^''^ The statute^ of the State of Florida provide that no sponges shall be sold less than 4 w^l^'^.ffi ^T'"''- ^? •''"" '^""^^' '^^'^t a seven months' closed season done? recuperate any sponge beds on which fishing has been Mr. Smith. No; we advocate a three or five year closed season Mr. Seraphic. According to your statement "the best plan of reo-u- latmg and preserving the i^roduct of the sponge industry would he a division of the coast into districts. Mr. Smith. That is simply one measure for relief Mr Seraphic. And that a closed season will not protect the sponee industry, as the^time is not sufficient for the sjxmges to recuperate. . ^]^- ?^'^™- The closed season proposed in this bill is only useful in dmnnishmg by five months the operations of the divers "as they will presumably get only about seven-twelfths of their present catch Mr. Seraphic. Then, llie purpose is sim])ly to limit the output of sponges Mr. Smith. Perhaps the bureau has gone too far in this matter but in a statement made by the Commissioner to one of the Florida PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 25 Senators who is particularly interested in this matter, it. was sug- gested that if diving is injurious, there is no reason for allowing it at all. If you permit any diving, why restrict it to seven months? Mr. Sparkmax. You said a moment ago that the bill did not go far enough. Mr. Smith. Yes. Mr. Sparkman. Is there any other particular in which this bill does not reach the requirements of the situation? Mr. Smith. That was only a suggestion made to Senator Talia- ferro. Those who have interests in the State, commercial and other- wise, will have to work out this matter for themselves; but from our standpoint of the preservation of the sponge beds it seems rather ex- traordinary to permit an injurious occupation for seven months out of tw^elve. Mr. Sparkman. I would like to ask you to state, if you have any matured opinion on the subject, just what kind of a bill you w^ould have passed, if any at all, to protect the sponge industry ? Mr. Smith. I think the bill as passed by the Senate is reasonably satisfactory. It >will undoubtedly secure some protection for the sponges, and perhaps it may lead to more effective legislation if the conditions seem to require it. Perhaps as a temporary expedient it will suffice. M}^ own opinion is that within two or three years the divers will be out of business as well as the hookers. The hookers will go out of business before that. Mr. Sparkman. You mean whether this bill passes or not? Mr. Smith. Yes; the bill will delay the time when the grounds will be depleted, but it will not prevent the depletion. Mr. Sparkman. You have stated that the sponge area off the coast of Florida was about three or four thousand miles. Mr. Smith. Three or four thousand square miles, including the Key grounds. Mr. Sparkman. Of course you include the waters outside the juris- diction of the United States? Mr. Smith. That includes all the grounds where we found sponges growing, so far as we know. They practically stopped near the 50- foot depth of water, because at that time we did not know of the existence of sponges in any great numbers beyond that depth. Mr. Sparkman. Do you know whether it is a fact that divers have already found sponges in much deeper water? Mr. Sjniith. I have understood that they have found them in depths of GO or TO feet and even deeper. Mr. Sparkman. I understood some one to say here the other day that they had found them in 150 feet of water. Mr. Seraphic. I stated that. Mr. Sparkman. How far north, up the coast, does the area extend? Mr. Smith. Off St. Marks. Mr. Sparkman. And not to the westward of St. Marks? Mr. Smith. We do not know of any along the shores to the west- ward, but it is quite possible that there are sponge grounds on the lower part of the west coast of Florida, where, owing to the turbidity of the water, it is not possible for the hookers to operate. There have been a few sponges gotten there from time to time when there has been a temporary period of clear Avater. There is no reason why 26 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. sponges should not groAv there, and it ma}^ be that there are large areas in that locality. Mr. Wilson. The divers have not yet been there? Mr. Smith. Xo; they have confined their operations to the north part of the west coast. Senator Taliaferro. Treating this bill as rather experimental, would you recommend a longer closed season than five months ? Mr. SaiiTH. I supjjose that if you are going to permit diving at all, five months' closed season is about as long a time as the men can stand. If the closed season is made longer they will be unable to make a living and maintain themselves. Senator Taliaferro. Do you think the bill in its present form is one which the Commission could recommend as an experimental measure for the preservation of this industry ? Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; we think it is along the right lines, but it remains to be seen whether additional legislation will be required by the conditions there. Senator Taliaferro. Some more drastic legislation ? Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. Senator Taliaferro. Are you informed as to the number of diving boats now engaged in this business? Mr. S:mith. We understand that there are about 40. The last re- port Ave had indicated that number. Mr. Patterson. I understood it to be stated here that there were about TO at the present time. Mr. Smith. There has been a great increase recently. Mr. CiiEYNEY. I think there are about 70. Mr. Smith. The last report w^e had showed only about 40. Senator Taliaferro. My information is that a fleet of these diving boats has been recently sent out from Pensacola, which is rather a new point. Mr. Smith. That is a new departure, for Pensacola has had no in- terest in the sponge fisheries heretofore. Mr. Wilson. They seem to be working a good thing to death. Mr. Seraphic. Have you ever heard reports from snapper fishing fleets out of Pensacola as to their catching sponges of exactly the same quality as these, while fishing for snappers, in 20, 30. 40, and GO fathoms of water ? Mr. Smith. I never have. The snapper vessels fish far offshore, in deep water, as you indicate, but it would be a very difficult matter for a snapjDer hook to bring up one of these sponges. It has to be torn from the bottom by main force. Senator Taliaferro. Has your bureau recently heard of any un- usual number of Greek divers going upon the Florida coast? - Mr. Smith. No, sir ; we have no information on that subject. This industry, gentlemen, is one of great importance to Florida. There are over 2,000 people engaged in it, exclusive of the Greek divers who have recently come in, and many hundreds of thousands of dollars are invested in vessels, boats, and shore property. AVe believe that with proper precautions the industry can be made permanent and the output can be increased, but as it is now being conducted its future is quite precarious. The Chairman. We will now hear from Mr. Cheynev. PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 27 STATEMENT OF JOHN K. CHEYNEY, OF TARPON SPRINGS, FLA. Mr. Cheyney. I am hardly prepared to make any address or pre- sent an argument in a formal way, as I have not prepared myself with any notes, but I would like to say, by way of explanation, that I went to Florida sixteen years ago from Philadelphia, which was my home, and have since been a resident of Tarpon Springs. I im- mediately engaged in the sponge business at that point, starting it there. That was the establishment of the sponge business at that point, and I have been actively engaged in it ever since. There are now a number of others engaged in the same business at that place, who have come there from time to time during that period. My purpose here is simply to urge, on behalf of our industry and the other interests in that locality, the passage of this bill, believing that it is absolutely essential to the permanent maintenance of the industry at that point. Lately, and within the last year, the diving business has been introduced at that point and at some other points, Tarpon Springs being the center of it. We have now something over 800 Greeks engaged in this diving business. Mr. Wilson. Eight hundred divers? Mr. Cheyney. No. In order to make a complete crew for one diving outfit they require two divers and about twelve assistants, pump men. boat men, etc. It has been stated that there are about 70 diving outfits altogether, which would mean, perhaps, 140 divers. We have 800 people in the business at Tarpon Springs, but we have not got TO of these diving outfits at that place. We have, perhaps, about 40 at that point. These men are all foreigners. Some few of them may be natural- ized citizens, but very few of them speak the English language. In fact, I do not suppose that one out of a hundred can understaud an English word. They are in no sense interested with us as citizens. They own no proj^erty except their diving outfits ; and those of us who have our investments in property and other matters there think that our entire industry is threatened by this enormous influx of alien population who have no interest in sustaining the industry perma- nently. In other words, they are irresponsible, because just as soon as they have derived what temporary benefit they can from it they will leave us, and Ave will be left without an industry. From my knowledge of the business, I feel that I want to indorse, to the fullest extent. Doctor Smith's statement here. As nearly as we can judge of the extent of these sponge grounds, they will be exhausted for all practical purposes in the next two or three years, if this condition continues. There are at Key West and other points along the coast from 1,000 to 2,000 men who have pursued this calling for their lifetime, and their fathers pursued it before them. They have their own homes and vessels. It is their occupation and sole dependence, and at the present time they are driven out. They can not compete with the diving methods. That would, of course, appear to be an argument for the total prohibition of the diving business. But many of us feel that w^ould be wrong, because we would debar the markets of the country from obtaining the results of these deep- water beds on which the hookers can not work. 28 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. It has beei^ suggested here that perhaps the purpose was to curtail the production, whereby the consumer would have to pay the penalty by having the cost to him increased; but we can certainly establish the fact that the normal quantity of the product for several years past, which has averaged in the neighborhood of $400,000 a year, will be sustained, and in addition to that an equal quantity will be pro- duced by the diving method during the seven months of the open season. ' The proof of that lies in the fact that from January 1 until the present time there have been over $200,000 worth of sponges produced by the divers sold at Tarpon Springs. That is a period of a little over three months. Mr. Wilson. Practically all of that amount has gone to the Greeks? Mr. Cheyney. It has all gone to the Greeks. Mr. Wilson. Are you interested, as owner, in diving boats? Mr. Cheyney. I have a half interest in one boat and an undefined interest in another boat, from having loaned some money on it. The Chairman. Do you employ Greeks to do the diving ? Mr. Cheyney. On tliat boat I did until a few weeks ago, when the boat was laid up. It had ceased to be profitable. Mr. Wilson. Do you know what these Greeks make out of this line of business? Are they hired by a few individuals, or are they all in it together? Mr. Cheyney. At the beginning of the business last year and dur- ing last summer, when very few boats put out with Greek crews, most of the boats were owned by their own people, and they emjjloyed Greek crews on wages. At that time the price of sponges was the highest ever reached in the ma rivets of this country. As as illustration : The basis of value to the fisherman is by the bunch. They are strung on a 5-foot yarn string, and a string full of sponges constitutes a bunch. The value is estimated by the bunch, and the buyer estimates the number of pounds he can get out of a bunch and at so much a pound. These bunches were sold at one time on the basis of a higli market and a decreased product at $10 per bunch. That was the highest price. Those same bunches are now sold for $3. To go back and answer the question you aslced. The Greeks were employed at that time on wages, and the divers received as high as $300 a month each. Mr. Wilson. They did not work by the piece or by the day ? Mr. Cheyney. No; they were paid by the month, a definite salary. But that was not maintained so very long. That was really the cause of the tremendous excitement among these Greeks and the rushing into the business. Tliat money was sent home and to New York to their friends, because it was vastly more money than they had ever made before in their lives. Then the business came with a rush. Some of them with sufficient capital built their own boats. Others engaged in mercantile business in order to supply them ; and the market under this increased product gradually fell to $8, $7, $6, ^5, $4, and to $3 a bunch. Then it ceased to be profitable at these high wages, and they adopted what is known as the sharing system, under which one-half of the value of the product is divided between tlie crew in certain shares, the divers getting three or four shares against an ordinary pump man and laborer one share, and the other one-half of the product went to the owner of the outfit, or operator, PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 29 as we call him, out of which he has to pay the expense of the ship, for the provisions, etc. That share has gradually fallen until, based on the $3 valuation, it produces to these men not nuich over $35 a month. The last estimate I made with my men, who were out for six weeks, they shared about $30 a month each a piece, which was not fair wages. Therefore the business has ceased to be as productive as it was at first. In that way we contend the question is partially solved, under the law of supply and demand; but we do not know how far they can extend this reduction in price or whether the price will remain at that point, and in the meantime the destruction of the grounds continues. That is the thing which alarms us. We feel that we are absolutely tied to the permanency of this industry, and that our interests are in maintaining and preserving that industry. We feel that we are being rapidly threatened with destruction, unless some such legislation as this is enacted. We — and I think I can speak for some of my friends — are anxious, of course, to see a certain period in the year left open for the operation of the divers, but I would rather see the entire method destroyed than to see it left open during the entire year. The Chairman. What would these divers do during the other five months ? Mr. Cheyney. I can not say, but I believe that many of them will go back to the cities from which they came. Many of these fisher- men are from our own cities, and many of them, I think, are directly from abroad. Many of them have congregated there from New York, Savannah, and other places, and I presume they would go back to those cities to wait until the closed season was over. The Chair]man. Could they not use hooks during the other five months ? Mr. Cheyney. They have never had any experience in that method of sponging ; but I see no reason why they should not do it, although it takes a certain amount of training to follow it. Mr. BiRDSALL. If the Americans should engage in this business and the Greeks should drop out of it, this bill would not affect anything at all, would it? Mr. Cheyney. The passage of this bill would still close the season to Americans just the same as it would to aliens. It prohibits the use of that method of gathering sponges by anyone. There are two bills before this committee. One is the alien bill, and the other is a bill relating entirely to the diving operations. I have been discussing bill 4806, which prohibits diving. Mr. BiRDSALL. What do you apprehend would be the effect, if the Greeks were driven out of business, as to whether their place would be supplied by Americans? Mr. Cheyney. I think the Americans would eventually learn to become divers themselves. Mr. BiRDSALL. This would really mean, so far as the legislation itself is concerned, that the crude method of gathering sponges would be supplanted by this more rapid and better method of gath- ering them? Mr. Cheyney. Exactly; and there is another point there. The other method brings into use so much greater facilities that sponges 30 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. can be gathered very much more rapidly than they can by hooking, and their o])erations would not be preve'nted by the condition of the water, Avhich has been mentioned by Doctor Smith. Natural con- ditions have always stood between the old method and constant w^ork of gathering. Mr. BiRDSALL. That does not rest so much upon the disposition of the gatherer to save the crop as upon the crudeness of the method ? Mr. Cheyney. I think the gatherer is human, and will get all he can get, unless his hands are tied to a certain extent. I think that is true. I think it would be natural for him to get everything that he can, even if it brings a very low price. The Chairman. If this bill is passed, w^ould not the divers go outside of the 3-mile limit and continue fishing the year around and then take their catch elsewhere or keep them on the boats? Mr. Cheyney. I can not believe that would be a possible thing to do. There are two and perhaps three very serious obstacles. In the first place, while sponges might be cleaned on the boat, yet it would be a very difficult matter. They might have wells in the boats, if the boats were large enough to accommodate them, in wdiich the sponges could be immersed. But the main difficulty would be the length of time required to carry these sponges to a foreign port. I have discussed that subject with a number of very intelli- gent masters down there, and they all claim that it would take from three to four weeks to make the nearest foreign port, which would be Habana, and to make the return trip. Therefore they could not remain out after gathering their cargo more than a month, or if they did it would be very dangerous, as the sponges would probably spoil on their hands. There is a tendency to heat, which forms a kind of gurry and destroys the sjjonge. Therefore they would have a month's work and a month's idleness. But, to my mind, the most important point of all would be that the moment they were introduced into the markets of Cuba the Cuban fishermen would demand of their Government a protective measure, similar to this, in order to save themselves. Senator Taliaferro. Is diving allowed in Cuban waters? Mr. Cheyney. I presume they have never had any legislation on that subject, because there has never been any diving carried on there to my knowledge. But these goods being so much more valu- able than the Cuban product, if taken into their market and sold in competition with their goods, would cause an immediate action on the part of the fishermen to request their Government to protect them. I take it the Government would pass similar legislation to this, which would shut them out of Cuba. The Chairman. Such action has already been taken in the Ba- hamas, has it not? Mr. Cheyney. I understand it has. Another difficulty would be that it would take a very much larger A'essel than those now used, and it would require vessels on such a large scale that it would not be profitable. The Chairman. Mr. Seraphic stated that a great deal of curing was now being done on the vessels. Mr. Cheyney. I never knew of such a thing. Mr. Wilson. If this bill does become a law, how can we stop these same jDeople from going out and fishing and making the claim that PROTECTION OP THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 31 they have liooked these sponges? "Would 3^011 have any trouble in that line? Mr. Cheyney. Xo ; I think not ; because, while there is a large area of water to be covered, yet there are boats constantly coming and go- ing, and the fleets ahnost always work together, so that a vessel would be i^icked up at ahnost any time ; and it would be possible to see whether they were using the diving method or not. You can see a great dis- tance, 10 or 15 miles, over that Avater, and they would be in constant danger of being discovered at any time. In addition to that, the revenue cutters patrol those waters pretty thoroughly. Mr. Wilson. Do they now? Mr. Cheyney. They do now in connection with a traffic that has always been maintained on that coast to some extent, which is the smuggling of Cuban rum. That is now almost broken up, but the revenue cutters still j^atrol the coast. Mr. Spioiit. I understood you to say a while ago that nearly all these men engaged in the diving business are foreigners. Did I understand you correctly? Mr. Cheyney. Yes, sir. Mr. Spight. How is it with the men who are engaged in hooking — what percentage of them are foreigners? Mr. Cheyney. The men engaged in hooking are all residents of this country and have been for many years; but just Avhat percentage of them have taken out naturalization papers I do not know. Orig- inally they and their forefathers are from the Bahama Islands, and we call them Conchs, because they use the conch, which is a shellfish, as an article of diet. Those men were English subjects, perhaps, prior to coming to this country, but I think most of them have l)ecome naturalized. There may be a few of them wiio have not. Mr. Spight. I believe you live at Tarpon Springs? Mr. Cheyney. Yes, sir. Mr. Spight. I saw a statement published in a paper in your town that about CO per cent of them are aliens. Mr. Cheyney. I think that is simply an assumption. Whether they are aliens or not, they are citizens to all intents and purposes. They all own their own homes and have a permanent residence either at Key West or at some point along the coast. Mr. Spight. Did I understand you correctly as saying that you are a dealer in sponges? Mr. Cheyney. I buy and sell sponges. Mr. Spight. Do you buy them yourself, or are you the agent for somebody ? Mr. Cheyney. I buy independently, and I market my own sponges. Mr. Spight. The statement has been made that the dealers and buyers of sponges have now on hand a considerable stock, wdiich they bought at high prices, which they can not now dispose of without a heavy loss, and that they are advocating this legislation with a view and iiope that the output may be curtailed to such an extent as to in- crease the value of the sponges which they now hold. Is that true? Mr. Cheyney. I have heard that statement made. I have no abso- lute knowledge, and can form but very little guess as to what my com- petitors have in stock at the present time or as to whether they have sold their goods or not. I can only answer for myself, that up to one month ago I did not have a thousand dollars' worth of goods in 32 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. stock. At the present time I have bought, since that time, perhaps four or five or six thousand dollars' Avorth. I have been afraid to buy because of the constantl}- falling; market, and my customers are afraid to buy from me because of the constantly falling market. Mr. Wilson. How long can you keep a stock of sponges? Mr. Cheyney. If they are properly dried and packed they can be kept for ten years. If they are kept in a dry place they undergo practically no change whatever. Mr. BiRDSALL. I understand that at the outset 3^ou were opposed to this proposition. Am I correct about that? Mr; Cheyney. My first action in this matter was taken in ojDposi- tion to the bill introduced by Senator Taliaferro on behalf of Key West and the hookers. Mr. BiRDSALL. I understood that, and I thought I would give you an opportunity to put yourself right on the record, because your name aj^pears here as a protestant. Sir. Cheyney. I welcome the opportunity to explain that. I did use every possible effort to crystallize sentiment in my locality and among those who are associated and interested in this industry in opposition to the passage of the bill, because w^e believed, as I stated a while ago, that if Ave entirely destroyed the diving method we would be taking a step backward. Mr. BiRDSALL. That was the scope of the first bill ? Mr. Cheyney. Yes; it was an absolute prohibition. Afterwards I favored a closed season — that is, a measure to permit the diving method during practically half of the year and closing it for, say, five months — believing that would Avork to the best advantage of all con- cerned, except the Greeks, who could not maintain themseh^es during the closed season. I take it that is the only element that Avill be affected or injured by this action. Mr. BiRDSALL. I understand that the period covered by the closed season in this bill is the only period of the year in which Avhat you call the " KeA' Westers " can hook sponges ? Mr. Cheyney. That is true. Mr. BiRDSALL. Why is that? Mr. Cheyney. It is because of the condition of the weather and the water. Our calms set in about the 1st of May or the latter part of April, and Ave haA'e practically windless weather for tAvo or three months until the squalls of midsummer appear. During that period the Avater becomes clear, which is an absolute essential to prosecuting their Avork. They come out on the grounds about the middle of April or toAvard the 1st of May and pursue their hooking methods until October or NoA'ember, making two or three trips and usually trips of two months' duration. Sir. BiRDSALL. Then the effect of these bills would be to make that a closed season for diA^ers and to give the hookers the benefit of the market during those months? JVIr. Cheyney. Exactly. It seemed to me and to others AAdio haA^e studied the bill that the effect Avould be just as you haA'e stated it — that is. it would preserve the equilibrium in the market and furnish an opportunity to both of these classes and both of these methods to pursue their calling Avithout interfering with each other, and at the same time it Avould create a condition by Avhich the market could be PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. $|t supplied at a settled price. Heretofore there has always been an excess of product in the summer time and no product at all in the winter, and consequently there is a cheap market in the summer and no market in the winter. Such a condition would be relieved by the present arrangement. Mr. BiRDSALL. Do you think it would be possible to make any closed season for the hookers? Mr. Cheyney. I do not; because they are already closed by nature for half of the year, and it woidd be impossible for you to close any portion of their season and still permit them to make a living. At best they do not make very much of a living. Mr. Wilson. I understand it has been stated here that you were employed to circulate this petition by various parties and paid for your services, and that after you had done so and gotten the money out of it you turned tail. If that is not right I would be glad to liave you explain it. Mr. Cheyney. I would like to have an opportunity to answer that. I haA^e heard that such a statement has been made. The facts are sim]3ly these, that upon the presentation of the bill introduced by Senator Taliaferro before the connnittee in the Senate I was asked by several of my friends, who were also interested in this industry, to take some measure to aid them in formulating a protest. I have a very good knowledge of such matters and I told them I would do what I could, but that it w^ould be necessary to undergo some expense in the matter because I would want to consult an attorney and it might be necessary to do some newspaper work and to circulate a petition, all of which would entail some expense. They stated they would provide for that by levying a small tax on each diving boat, and I think the tax was $10 for each boat. That was to defray these expenses. I expended exactly $375, $275 of which was paid to my attorney, for which I presented his receipt to the committee. Fifty dollars was paid for an article which w^e had written in the paper, in order to explain to our people what we wanted in this petition. Mr. Wilson. What paper was that? Mr. Cheyney. That was the Tampa Times. It was an article pre- pared and written by a gentleman named Calhoun, who was con- nected with the board of trade in Tampa. Mr. Si'iGHT. Look at this paper and see if it is the petition you jirocured the signatures- to. Mr. Cheyney. Yes; I think it is. I think it was the only petition that was circulated, and I think it must be the same. I expended $50 or $75 to five or six men who hired carriages to drive around the country and circulate these petitions. I then presented my itemized bill, with the receipts for the amounts paid. I am still out $175, but I do not regret that at all and do not care anything about it. xVt the ])resent time I am bearing my own expenses. Senator Taliaferro. Mr. Cheyney, were you under the impression, when you approved the bill in its amended form, that you were rep- resenting the interests and wishes of the gentlemen who had been opposed, with you, to the original bill ? Mr. Cheyney. Yes; entirel}^ so. It became apparent to us that it was necessary to compromise with the element that was suggesting the first bill, by some restriction on the diving method, but still leav- 8 1—06 3 34 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. ing a certain privilege open to the divers. There was a meeting in my office of those whom I felt were most interested in the matter and who represented the largest intere to 30 feet in dei)th, although under favorable circumstances they sometimes fished in about 50 feet of water. Owing to the iiersistent working of the sponge beds in the localities where their method could be employed by a constantly increasing number of men. these grounds became less prolific, until through scarcity of the goods taken and the keen competition among the dealers prices advanced to more than double. The jobber, finding the retailers would not pay twice the prices formerly charged, adulterating or " loading " was resorted to for the purpose of decreasing the price per pound. This only ostensibly reduced the price, and the consumer actually received but half as much sponge for his money as when the goods were sold pure. The fishermen engaged in the business under the old method, of which there have been about 1.000, have been nearly equally divided as re- gards color, and at least GO per cent have been aliens, hailing from the Bahama Islands. While a considerable number are intelligent and honorable, a certain propor- tion are ignorant and the morals of many are not above criticism. Obtaining advances, a custom inaugurated by some of the owners of the vessels to secure the best "hookers" (not "tongers"), which finally liecame universal, it is a common occurrence for them to .jump the vessel without repaying the owner his money. One class are heavy drinkers when they can procure licpior. whether with their own money or by exchange of the vessel's supi)lies, and during their drunken orgies many serious affrays have occurred. The end of a successful trip, when they could " drew." has always been a time of revelry and debauchery among this class, and the result of their labor would be (piickly dissipated, And of these same people one cun not truthfully say that their word is their bond. As a buyer I have been closely associated with the fishermen for years and have endeavored to bear their good will, through consistently fair treatment, and while the above statements will no doubt arouse the animosity of those they are intended to cover, they are generally known facts and do not reflect upon those who are exemiit from such charges. The vessels, usually owned by merchants, have been outfitted with supplies for a trip of eight or ten weeks' duration, the owner bearing the entire expense of the triii. Under the system of sharing the men have received one-half of the gross proceeds of the sale of their product, and as an additional inducement to labor the hookers have been given one-quarter of a share from the owners' part, the cook one-quarter of a share to practice economy in use of provisions, and the captain an extra percentage to care for the vessel and direct the work of the crew. The accumu- lation of bad accounts due to the system of advances, without which no fisher- man wcmld ship for a trii>. amounting to thoiisands of dollars, and the losses incurred when the catches were small, have more than once brought the vessel owners to face impending ruin. The new method of diving was started less than a year ago by a (ireek who had been previously employed in a padving house here, and his efforts proving successful beyond expectations, others, both Americans and Greeks, hastened to procure apparatus and begin op^^rations. Now. there are probably tiOO Greeks here, many of them highly educated men and cptite a num1)er naturalized citi- zens' of tlie United States. Thus far the town has Udt had any iust cause to regret their advent, as. while there have been a few violations of pro])rieties, owing to Ignorance of American customs, they have not created any disturl)ances, and all seem disposed to make (piiet .and ordei-ly citizens. The merchants and boat builders here and in Tampa and .Tacksonville have extensively [)rofited from their alreadv large business. The claim of the hookers that the divers are infringing on their rights can not be established, as the diver's work is all done on the high seas. I)eyond the iurisdiction of State or Federal Govei-nment. where the Cuban fishing smacks 54 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. catch grouper and red snapper for the Habana markets. The assertion, too, that the metal soles of the diver's shoes injure the bottom to the detriment of the sponge can not be proven. This method has been followed for a great many years in the Mediterranean Sea, and I am told that only overworking the grounds has had any effect upon the growth or supply. The hookers have themselves done much harm to the grounds by taking the very small sponge since the larger sizes have become less plentiful. There is a State law pro- hibiting taking or selling a sponge under a certain limit of inches in diameter, but it has been violated repeatedly by the fishermen, and no punishment has been imposed in any case. The product of the divers, being taken from deeper waters, is much superior to the usual take of the hookers in both qualitj' and size, and the increased out- put through their operations will soon bring prices down to a point where the consumer will not be obliged to pay half of his money for the S's (so called by the packers), sand, salt, and sirup. It is authentically stated that the hookers are much incensed at the divers and that a mob of them, after handling two or three Greeks very roughly in Key West some time since, placed a rope around the neck of one with the intention of hanging him, but were prevailed upon to allow him to leave town. It is also reported that an armed fleet of hookers are coming out to the grounds with the intention of killing Greeks and destroying the outfits of those engaged in the business. This latter rumor I believe to be exaggerated, how- ever, and to consist merely of idle threats by irresponsible parties, as it must be realized that such acts of violence would meet with speedy and extreme retribution under the maritime laws of the country. Their threats extend to some of their former comrades who have found employment in the new busi- ness, and who are considered renegades. The inhabitants of the State most contiguous to the sponge beds are appar- ently content with the new conditions and would deprecate any interference. The enaction of any prohibitoi-y laws, as have been suggested, would only result in the transference of the divers' vessels under the protection of the Cuban Government, when the operations would be pursued upon the same grounds and the goods sent into the United States with an additional cost of duties. Matters are quite unsettled at present, and it is difficult to forecast the ultimate outcome; but it would appear that the increased production and conse- quent decline of prices through the continuance of the new method can only result in the greatest good to the greatest number. Yours, very truly, W. W. K. Decker. Takpon Springs, March 8, 1906. To the honorable chairman and jncnihcrx of the Committee on Foreign Rela- tions: Under consideration the Senate bill No. 4806, introduced by Senator Talia- ferro. We. the undersigned American citizens, residents of the counties of Hillsboro and Pasco, in the State of Florida, having read the protest made by the persons engaged in taking sponge off the coast of Florida by diving, and being thor- oughly familiar with the situation, do respectfully submit to your committee that the said protest is well founded and should be given due consideration. We do further state that the passage of Senate bill No. 4806 would practi- cally destroy the sponging industry in so far as the State of Florida is con- cerned. We do further state in our opinion the passage of the bill prohibiting diving for sponges in water less than 48 feet in depth, and prohibit the taking of sponges less than 5 inches in diameter, would thoroughly protect the sponge industry, and would be to the best interest of the public in general. Respectfully .submitted, etc. We, the undersigned citizens of the United States residing at Tarpon Springs and vicinity, in the State of Florida, and engagetl in the business of obtaining sponges by diving, desire to enter a protest before your committee against the passage of Senate bill No. 4806. And, in support of our opposition, would respectfully state the following facts : PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 55 First. Tarpon Springs is the largest sponge niarl^et in the United States, and practically does about 90 per cent of the sponge business of the United States. Second. We, the undersigned, have invested in vessels and paraphernalia for gathering sponges approximately $200,000. Third. There are employed in this business, who have their headquarters at Tarpon Springs. Fla., about 900 persons. The passage of Senate bill No. 4806 would practically destroy the investment above mentioned and would throw out of employment almost all of the men engaged in the above-mentioned business and cause their removal from this region. Fourth. In the opinion of the undersigned there is no reason for the passage of Senate bill No. 4806, as it would do no good either to the Government, the people engaged in sponging, or the consumers of sponges. Fifth. In the opinion of the undersigned the passage of Senate bill No. 4806 would result either in the loss to the markets of the world of all of the sponges in water deeper than 48 feet, for the reason that the old method of hooking sponges can not be successfully carried on in deeper water than 48 feet ; or in driving the sponge business out of the United States. As, if tlie bill should be passed and the courts should sustain the same as a proper police regulation, the grounds upon which the diving is done being upon tlie high seas and be- yond the jurisdiction of the United States, the result would be that the sponges would still be taken from these waters by diving, and the only result would be that the vessels therein engaged would land tlieir cargoes either upon the island of Cuba, the Bahama Islands, or some other foreign country. The mere mat- ter of distance from the sponging banks to the foreign port would make very little difference in the business, it being a fact that the fishing smacks of both Cuba and the Bahamas catch most of their fish on the Florida coast and transport them to their home ports. Sixth. In order that your committee may fully understand the conditions prevailing, we beg to state that of our own actual knowledge, taking sponges by the old method of hooking is impracticable in waters over a depth of 8 fathoms ; that by reason of the continual taking of sponges for many years past in waters less than 48 feet and where hooking is practicable, and by reason of the fact that many small sponges have been taken, the sponging on the banks within a depth of 48 feet and within a distance of 15 miles from the shore, has practically been exhausted. The consequence of this has been that the prices of sponges have been going higher and higher, and the consiuner has been required to pay more than was reasonable for his sponges. The diving in water from a depth of 48 feet and over has been carried on long enough off the coast of Hillsboro County to demonstrate the fact that there are vast quantities of marketable sponges in the waters of this and greater depths, and the only way to gather these sponges is by the use of diving apparatus. In confirmation of the above statements we beg to call the committee's atten- tion to the report made by the Commissioner of Fisheries to the Secretary of Connnerce and Labor June 30, 1905, page 29. Seventh. In short, the old method of gathering sponges by the use of hooks afiixed to poles <)i»erated from the surface has ceased to result in profit either to the operator fishermen or dealers engaged therein. It was for this reason that the diving method was introduced, that sponges might be taken from the virgin grounds lying in greater depth than 48 feet and beyond the limit of the use of poles and hooks. That gathering sponges by diving in the deeper waters will permit the replenishing of the shallow^water grounds in a period of two or three years, but the prohibition of the diving method now will inevitably de- stroy the entire industry to our people. Eighth. In conclusion, recognizing that the Government is as much interested in the protection of the sponges as we are we would suggest from practical ex- perience that the only legislaticm needed or which would accomplish the end in view would be a law prohibiting the use of the diving method in waters less than 18 feet in depth, and a further enactment making it unlawful for any person, persons, or corporation to take, offer for sale, or have in possession any sponge less than 5 inches in diameter, measured when wet, at its greatest diameter. The passage of such a law would allow the gathering of sponges suflicient to supply the market and would at the same time, by forcing the sponges to be taken from deeper waters, allow the shallow grounds to recuperate. All of which is respectfully submitted. The committee thereupon adjourned. 56 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY, Washington, D. C. April 27. 1906. Hon. Charles H. Grosvenor. CJi(tinii(i>i Merchant Marine and Fisheries Coniniittee, House of Representatives, City. Dear Sir : Since the hearing so Iciudly accorded me by the subcommittee appointed by you for the purpose of iuA'estigating and hearing i>arties for and against the Senate bills 480') and 4S0G. relative to the sponge business in Florida waters, I have given further thought to the matter, and in view of the fact that a great many vessels have, during the last few months, been fitted out at great expense with diving apparatus with a view to engaging in the sponge business in waters off the Gulf coast of Florida, many of which are now actually engaged in this business, and in view of the further fact that the passage of said bill (S. 4800) in its present shape would entail heavy loss upon these i)arties — a thing not desired by those protesting against the passage of said measure — I am perfectly willing, and have so stated to Senators Taliaferro and Mallory, as also to Mr. Sparkman. memlier of Congress from the lirst district of Florida, that said liill be reported and passed with an amendment providing that the same shall not take effect until the 1st of March. 1907. I also think that Senate bill 4805 should likewise be amended by striking out in line 4. page 1. " either as principal, agent, or employee." I understand the Senators are perfectly willing that this shall be done. Very respectfully. Saml. E. Hope. Washington. D. C. April 26. 1906. Hon. Chas. H. Grosvenor. Chairman Committee on the Merchant Marine ami Fisheries. House of Representatires. WasJtin(/ton. D. C. Sir : In accordance with the permission granted me by your connnittee. I have the honor to submit the following comments on the two measures now before it for the regulation of the sponge industry, the said measures being bills S. 4805 and 48(W : As respects the first-mentioned bill. I submit that it contains, in the form of a proviso at the conclusion of section 5. a stipidation that renders it nugatory. It is not necessary to go into any discussion of the constitutional question as to the power of Congress to forbid aliens to engage in the lousiness of taking sponges within the water limits over which the .iurisdiction of the I'nited States extends, although it is questionable whether it is a legitimate exercise of the authority " to regulate commerce with foreign nations and among the several States " to forbid absolutely those who are not citizens from engaging in a law- ful pursuit within the territory of this country. But I will request your atten- tion to the various treaties with foreign countries, under which the United States has conceded to the citizens of those countries the protection in the enjoyment of all the rights secured to citizens of the United States resident in said coun- tries, as well as to '* the most-favored-nation "' clause, which, with the exception of China, place all foreign countries with whom we have treaty agreements on the same basis in this respect. As an illustration, let us take article 3 of our treaty with Brazil, which reads as f(»llows: " The two high contracting parties, being desirous of placing the connnerce and navigation of their res])ective countries on the liberal basis of perfect equality and reciprocit.v, nuitually agree that the citizens and subjects of each may frecpient all the coasts and countries of the other and reside and trade there in all kinds of produce, manufactures, and merchandise: and they shall enjoy all the rights, ]nivileges, and exemptions, in navigation and connnerce, which native citiz(Mis or subjects do, or shall, enjoy." The last preriMling jthrase plainly shows that it would be ;i violation of treaty obligation to en.-ict a law denyin,£r to aliens the same rights, etc., as to sponge fishing as native citizens do now or ma.v hereafter enjoy. The conclu- sion, therefore, seems irresistible that, since the bill ( S. 4805) itself preserves the treaty rights of aliens, denial of such rights would render the measure, if enacted, null and void. Turning now to the l>ill S. 4800. I have the honor to suggest, as in the case of S. 4805, that it is a doubtful exercise of the constitutional power to regulate commerce. Certainly the United States can not lawfully undertake to forbid diving foi- sponges in waters beyond the limits of its jurisdiction. Even if it be PROTECTIOlSr OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 57 a legitimate control of cotiiiiierce " from foreign countries and between the several States " to forbid the landing, delivery, cure, or sale in the United States of sponges taken by divers anywhere in the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, the cost of adequate police supervision to prevent violations of the law would seem to require, as a justification of the outlay, the proof of some very decided benefit to the United States from such a measure. It is specifically to the latter point that I purpose to address the following remarks. I state as facts, of which I have personal experience, and which have not been gainsaid or disputed, that — 1. All sponge fishing beyond a depth of 50 feet must be done by divers. 2. The danger of the productiveness of the sponge beds of Florida, resulting from the rapacity of the fishers, is obviated l)y an effective law of that State, which penalizes the sale therein of sponges of less than a specified size. 3. ITnder the operation of said law the said beds have not diminished in fertility and probably will not. 4. If si)onge fishing by divers be forbidden, the available sponge field in the waters to which the bill relates will be limited to those under 50 feet or less of water, leaving many s(iuare miles of sponge beds as useless as though they were barren, limiting the market supply of a useful commodity and correspond- ingly raising its price. As regards the effect upon sponge beds of diving, I desire to state that it is no more injurious than the surface fishing. The divers, though heavily weighted to counteract the buoyancy of the water, which would otherwise force them to the surface, are yet simply balanced so that they barely touch the bottom with one foot for purposes of propulsion from point to point on a flat surface and readily rise up the side of steep inclines or over obstructions. They do not, therefore, injure the small sponges even if they touch them. Besides, those engaged in diving for sponges are equlpi)ed at a heavy expense, and they have thus a stronger inducement than the surface fishers to avoid injuring those beds to which they must look for a continuance of their returns upon the investment. Even, however, if there were any foundation for the fear that diving might produce a serious deterioration in the permanent supply, to what purpose, I ask, would it be to preserve sponge fields which i-an never be ex- ploited by any other means? I assert with confidence that there is no ground for apprehension on this score ; that the foreign beds, which have for years been utilized solely by divers, have not deteriorated as a consequence of this mode of sponge fishing, and that the only deterioration which can occur results from the taking of sponges in disregard of their size. The logical and the only remedy is that provided in the Florida statutes, to which I have already referred, to wit, to estnblish a standard of size or weight and impose rigorous penalties on the sale of sponges below the standard. Experience will then soon demonstrate the standard which should be adopted to maintain the productiveness of the sponge waters. I have thus far proceeded upon the assumption that the justification for the provision in the bill S. 4806 forbidding divers to fish for sponges in the waters mentioned is that their mode of sponge fishing is injurious, if not destructive, of the small sponges, and thus of the productiveness of the sponge waters. But the bill permits such fishing for seven months out of the twelve. That affords the opportunity to do any possible damage which it could lie claimed diving would do. If the friends of the bill ai-e really trying to iirevent what they believe to be a danger to the sponge fields of the Straits of Florida and the Gulf of Mexico, they should insist upon and Congress, if of like opinion, should provide for a permanent closed season for sponge fishing by divers. Does not the Inll in its present form concede the ])oint in substance, as I have endeavored to show, that no more injury results from sponge fishing by divers than from surface fishing? The actual effect of the measure as it stands will be to limit the output of sponges, furnish no protection from the imagined damage by divers, maintain high prices to the consumer, and afford the opportunity to preserve a monopoly — without seeming to have that effect — by allowing divers to fish during the seven comparatively unprofitable winter months and closing the beds to them for the five summer months; when the fishing is most productive. This last statement is emphasized by the fact that no benefit would result to sponge growth by a five months' closed season, as the sponges grow but little in that space of time. In conclusion. Mr. Chairman. I beg to express my thanks for this opportunity to place upon record my protest against a measure which from my personal experience and observation I know can only result in restricting the benefit of 58 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. the sponge field, whether as sponge fisher, dealer, or consumer, to a very few. I believe it is in accord with the spirit of American institutions to extend the benefit of our natural resources to all and in the largest measure consistent with the prudent husbanding of those resources, and I can not doubt If careful con- sideration is given to the actual facts in relation to the sponge-fishing industry the committee will see that the measure (S. 4806) is not simply without merit, but is actually vicious to the public interests. Respectfully, A. A. Seraphic, President Sponge Diving Operator's' Association. SECTION 2772, FLORIDA STATUTES. Whoever dredges or uses a dredge for the collecting or gathering of sponge in or upon the waters of the Gulf of Mexico within three marine leagues of the shoals, or upon any of the grounds known as sponging ground along the coast line of Florida from Pensacola to Cape Florida, or whoever gathers sponge less than four inches in diameter shall be punished for each offence by fine not ex- ceeding five hundred dollars and by confiscation of the boat, tackle, and ma- chinery, and in default of payment of said fine the offender shall be imprisoned not exceeding one year. LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 002 890 148 3 I LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 002 890 148 3