■ — 1 E 438 .P97 Copy 1 -i- VINDICATION OF THE NORTHERN DEIVIOORACT. SPEECH OF HOK GEORGE E. PUGH, OF OHIO DELIVEEED IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES, DECEMBER 19, 1859. Tlie Senate proceeded to consider the i-esolution offered by Mr. Pur.n, on tJie 15th instant, as follows : liemlTed, That the Committee on Territories be instructed to inquire into the expediency of re- pealing so much of tlie acts approved September 9, 1850, for the organization of Territorial govern- ments in New Mexico and Utah, as requires that all the laws passed by the Legislatures of those Territories shall be submitted to Congress for approval or rejection. Mr. PUGH said: I offered this resolution, Mr. President, because I was foreclosed, by what T said when the Senator from Virginia [Mr. Mason] introduced his resolution, relative to the transactions at Harper's Ferry, from making some response, immediately, to what several Senators have felt themselves called upon to say here, in the course of the present session, as well as elsewhei-e, and indeed throughout the country, since our ad- journment in March last. I had earnestly desired that the brief residue of my service, in Congress, might pass with as little trouble and as few controversies as possible ; but, certainly, after the language employed by the Senator from Geoi-gia [Mr. Tver- son] not once merely, but twice and thrice, I should fail in duty to my constituents if I did not endeavor to repel definitely, and answer completely, the accusations thus preferred. Ths Senator from Georgia made his accusation thrice, and on tiiree successive days. He charged the Democracy of the northern States, on the fii-st day, with being unsound, and if not corrupt, politically, at least corruptible. He returned to the charge on the second day ; reiterating what he had previously said, and accom.panying it with an allegation that the fear of defeat, the fear of losing power and office in our own States, had made us succumb, at last, to the inflnencc of a sectional organization. He returned to his charge, on the third day, to add tliat the doctrine entertained by the Democracy of the northern States, with respect to Territorial governments, was more injurious to the interests and the rights of the South than the Wilmot proviso itself, and far less candid or ingenuous. Now, sir, as to the soundness or unsoundness of the northern Democrac}-, T beg leave to inform the honorable Senator from Georgia that we have not elected him to be our judge; we have not submitted ourselves to his instruction; nor do we propose thus to be instructed. We are in the habit of meeting annually fogethor, by delegates, in our several counties and States ; and once in four years, we have met the delegates of the southern Democracy in general convention; but we take it npon ourselves to decide, on all such occasions, how far the opinions which we en- tertain are to be treated as sound or unsound. Those who do not like them, or do not like to associate with us, can choose better company. Those who like our opinions, and our conduct, may remain with us in a common organization; but not Tipon terms of distinction in their favor, and against us, whether in regard ti> fideli- ty of principle, or anything else. This brings me to the Senator's second accusation. I do not stand here, Mr. President, to chant the praises of the Deinocracy of the non-slaveholding States. I claim no credit for them except that of having done their duty — rather a rare distinction, to be sure, in our times. _ We esteem a man, in the ordinary affairs of life, who discharges his pecuniary obligations on the day Printed by Lemuel Towers, e: ^ Trr when tLev fall duo; oiul, partioulail}', if he makes some serious sacriflee to accom- plish it, "Witliiii tlie Id'it ti\e years, a powerful and oiiee dominant party has been overthrown at the North — a party which, when I was eleeted to the Senate, iu March, is.'i-}, coiitroileJ every nortliwojtern State- — the local governments, the representation in Congress, the county otHces ; yet, sir, we have followed the flag of our party, and adhered to its organieation, although opposed to the prejudices of our own "section, ndln-red in spite of apj«enls to our passion;; and our jn'ide, until the viii»l. mouutaiii of rienioc-ratic strengtii, at home, has meltt^-d away heiieatli our feet. Vet we are charged, to-day, in the Senate of tfie United States, by tJiost- for whom we made such sacrifices, l)y those who never did bear the burthen and heat of anj- Serious struggle, with being unsound in principle, and unworthy of con- fidence. Sir, when the Democracy of the southern States can show a record like ours, when tliey shall have resisted such ai)peals to their section, have stood as a bulwark to the North against sectional prejudice and sectional pride, it will be time enoUL'h to condemn us whom they now atTect to despise. I proceed to the Senator's third accusation. He says that the doctrines enter- tained bv the Deniocracy of the non-slaveholding States, in regard to the power of Congress over the Territoiics. are inlinilely more dangerous to the southern Si;a.es than the doctrine of the "Wilmot proviso. Mr. President, whilst I was easting about for an answer to this, I had the good fortune to tind one already made to my hand. I discovered that a distinguished gentleman, on the 26th day of Julj-, 1848, ia the House of Representatives, expressed himself in this uianner: "Sir, the opinions and position of General Cass, upon the subject of slavery, liave been deliber- ately formed and openly avowed to the American people. lli.« sentiments are not left to vague con- jcciiire, or contriidiclory construction. Whilst General Taylor is ursced upon the South because, "from his rPsidence and interest, he is suppot-ed and alleged to be opposed to the "Wilmot proviso; and upon the North because he is believed to be in its favor, or pledged not to veto it if passed by (^ ohgri-ss ; whilst the position of General Taylor is like the Delphic oracle, giving oui responses to suit the wishes and tastesof those who consult it, General Cass has spoken in direct and unequivocal lungnace to all. He has declared himself, in termfi, the unyielding opponent of the,iuri8dietion of Congress over the subject of slavery in any form whatever. In bis letter to Mr. Nicholson, he takes open, Muinly. decisive ground. In his letter to the committee of the Baltimore convention, he gives an explicit iidhesion to all the principles adopted by that body, one of which lays down Itie-Bemo- cratlc platform upon the subject of slavery." I rend that as an introduction to something else ; and to show that the opinions entertaiiied by the present Secrttary of State — opinions which he announced in this chamber, man}" times, in the hearing of tiu-ee fourths of those who now hear me — Avere the acknowledged opinions of the Detuocratic party, North and South, at that time. Now for the specific quotation: " It has been objected that the position assumed by General Cass, and approved by the groat body of the Kemocratic parly in every section of the IJnion, that Congress has no power over the <,aestion of slavery, and that it belongs exclusively to the people of the Territories themselves, is wurse for l)ie South than the doctrine of the M'ilmot proviso. We are told that slavery is now ex- cluded from Now Mexico ami California, and that the question must be decided against uie South if left to their inhabitants. Sir, suppose this be tnie, how much worse off are we than if ihe juris- diction be left to Congress? If the power he admitted to the Federal Government, who does not see and know that the adoption of the Wilmot proviso is Inevitable? The only guaranty against it* adoption at the present moment is the constitntionul scruples of northern Democrats, and the ex- ercise of the veto power. Itemove these by admitting the constitutional power, and the Wilmot proTlso is fastened upon ns for all time to eotnc. What, then, can the South lose by leaving the iiuestion to the people of the Territories, rather than to the Congress of the United States? Sir,! do not propose to argne the question of constitutional power, either in Congress or the Territories, over this Kul)Ject. Much difference of opinion exists as to whether the power is in the Federal (fprernnieni, or in the hands of the people of the Territories. These questions have been ably argued by those who have gone bctore me in this debate, and I do not intend to occupy the time of the committee in their renewed discussion. •'It is admitted, however, by all jiarties, that there is a point of time at which this question of slaTcry or no Blavery may be, and must be, decided by the people of the Territories. When they ni«M-l in convention. In the exercise of sovereign authority, to form a constitution preparatory to ad- mission into this Cnion as a State, tfifn they may regulate this (piestion of slavery at pleasure. The only difTeren<'<< of opinion upon the pf>int is, whether the people may or may not, under the Con- Kiitutlon, exertist! iliis power by territorial legislation prior to the formation of a Stale constitution. hir, without dimfussing or deciding the question, I -n U. the TcrriU>ries. inxlearl of the Federal Government. Sir, c uocu, by ireaiy. irniutferred, m Territories or provinces, to the ITnitcd States, and at the very liKuiitnt of Irnn't'-r. ^'1 iii*t<(ii//, the cc.nstilutiomil provisions of tlie Mexican Government ceased their opf-ra- tion.niid Ihone of our Constitution assumed their place. The t'onstitution of the United ^t.itesre- roiftil/.en the exii-leiiro of nluviry, and prntei-ts its enjoyment. These Territories are eoi-'irion prop- erly of uiX the pcoplu of nil Iho blulu*. UnlU, tliurufore, legislative power ahull be exercised by some tribunal having jurisdiction, the wliole question of slavery in these Ti^rritories i,s led in abeyance, and the country open to tlie emipralion of all. Now, sir, whether tlio pcoiile in their territorial capacity can constitutionally or rislitfully exclude slavery, I am willing to Icavi^ to llie deciaion of the Supreme Court, wliicli many gentlemen contend is tlie pro[)er and constitutional tribunal for ila decision, or to the consiplied to the government of the Territory of Nebraska, or in any other hi]] for territorial government which may come before them. Resolved further. That his excellency, the Governor, be requested to transmit a copy of these resolutions to each of our Senators and Representatives in Congress JOHN E. WAKD. Speaker of the House of Representatives. JOHN D. STELL, Preisident of tlie Senate. In Senate, agreed to, February 17, 1854. Hugh M. Moobe, Secretary of th^ Senate. In House of Representatives, concurred in, February IT, 1854. Wm. T. Waffoed," f/s/'/fc of the ffojise of Representatives. Approved, Febri'iry 20, 1S54, HERSCHEL Y. JOHNSON, Governor. Mr. PUGII. '■-''ow, I say to the Senator, and to all other representatives of the Democratic party, from the South and from the North, that I stand on this Georgia platform; nn<1 if excluded from your fellowship, I must take the entire Democracy of (ictirjriu witli me. 1 rot'orred, at the outset, to speeohcs made in other places than the Senate Cham- ber, fiiiioe tne adiduniinerit t>f March last; and I havo given notice, privately, to the yenutor from California, [Mr. OwiN,] that I should require his attention, this niorn- iiijr, for a liltle wiiiJe. 1 have hefore nie the report of a speech delivered by that Senator, sometime in .'ul}' hist, at (Trass Valley, in the State of California, in wliieh he reiterates what he said, very late at night, on one of the last days of our last re- gular s<'8;i»>ii ; namely, that if lie had understood the Kansas-Nebraska bill as it is now inter]ir>-ted by the Democratic party in the northern States, he uever would have viitwd for it. Mr. (iWIN. I made no such statement. Mr. PLUifl. 1 submit to be corrected with pleasure. Mr. OWIN. 1 slated that if 1 haii:il freedom and title tn shives shall he deeided by the local tribunals of the States or Territo- ries, with rishl rtf appeal to the Sii|)reiiie Court of the United Stales ; that the ))rovisions of the Con- stution of the fnited St4ite,t in relation lo fusriuves from service .shall Ije faithfully executed in organized TerrilorieH of the United States, as well as in the Slates, and that they ougbt to be rigidly enforeed alike in both ; that the people residin.- in Territories, and the Slates to be formed out of them, nhall deciile all questions pertaining to slavery therein throuirh their representatives to be elected for Unit purpose; that the compromise of ISrn) ia inconsistent with, and supersedes, the com- proniife of l"--^!!. known as the Missouri conipromiiie : .\nd whereas, the aliove principles but reiterate, In lan(;u:iue and ilc and re«oluiion» to eich of our Senators and lleiires^niatives in Congress. "SlKncoif;i.A«] and myself, durinu' the whole of that controversy, was exactly then-. If I had believed, with you, (hat the Congress of the United States alone conferred tipon the territorial authmilies whatsoever power they possessed ; that O territorial t'overimient was a Rubordinnte munei|mlitv, of less degree than a city or town ...rpoinle; that n T.Mritorinl l..gishilure was I'hc mere agent of Congress \fi Kcrf'-rm certiiin -luticH whieh Congrc-^s had d.dcgated; if I could have believed thui?, two years wjro, I should have suiil, with tlie Sciiutor from lUinoirt, that your Lecomptoii cont^tilntion was only a ])i-»iiu>itiiiii to he aeeoptccl or ri-jci'tcil at our pleasure. And if I had helieved it. to he a iinipositioii subject to o\ii' aceejitaiiec or rejection, as he did, 1 certaiidy should have counselled its entire and ah.-(dute rejec- tion. I differed witli the tienator from Illinois, however, in the Leeoni]>ton contro- versy, because I helieved that the people ot a territory had as much right, through their Territorial government, to set on foot proceedint;s toward the fdrmation of a Slate constitution as Congress l>ad ; and I pointed to the fact that a mujoiity of the new Stales had formed their eoustitiitiuns in that manner. And I do not now see, Mr. President, any ground, any safe gi-ound, on wliicli the advocates of the Le- compton constitution can stand lor one moment except that which I have specified. But I return to the State of California. 1 have admoinshed the lionorable Senator as to her opinion at the time he was easting lier vote lor the Kansas-Nebraska bill I now propose to give him a later declaration. 1 will read him a res(dution adopted by the Democratic convention of California, since our discussion of these subjects, in the Senate, on the 23d of February last. If it be not truly reported, 1 will lliank the Semitor to furnish me a correct copy : " lieso/red, Tliat tlie organized Territories of tlie United States, aUiiough not en authorize their admission into the Union as States; and. therefore, are justly entitled to the riglit of self-government, and the undisturbed regulation of their domestic or local affairs, subject to the Constitution of the United States ; and that any attempt by Congress, or any of the States, to establish or maintain, prohibit or abolish, the relation of master and slave in a Territory, would be a departure from the original doctrine of our American institutions. AncI that we adhere, immovably, to the principle of 'non-intervention by Congress, with slavery in the States and Territories,' as declared in the Kan.oas-Nebraskabill. and cpenly disclaim fellowship with those, ■whether at the South or the North or the West, who counsel the abandonment, limitation, or avoid- ance of that principle." Mr. PUGII If the Senator thinks there is any essential distinction, I will thank him to point it out. Mr. GWIN. I will state that the resolutions of California strike out the words ■"or maintain" after "establish." Mr. PUGII. Will the Senator tell me a difference between "establish" and ""maintain" in tliat connection? Mr. GWIN^. There is a great difference between establishing slavery and maia- taimngit afterwards. Mr. PUGH. I do not perceive any difference in the words as there employed; my Jcnowledge of the English language fails to that extent. I perceive only a form of verbal repetition. The Senator omitted in his copy, however, an essential propo- fii.tion of the Dred Scott case. In the Ohio resolution, the theory of a territorial igovernmeat is placed exactly where the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court placed y Bign 6 it in the Pred Scott case; namely, that a Territory was only held in tlie (erritorial condition until it had acquired suliicient populalion to become a. State. The Sena- tor did not eojiv that into the California plHtforni, and I shall iiave oeea^iou to show him several oilier jmrtieular^ in whicli he has departed from safe precedents. It war* adopted in the Ohio platform, furtliermore, because a previous convention, by unanimons vote, liad ratified the conference bill in respect to Kansas, and we meant to reaflirni, as u general |>rinciple, that territories ought not to be thrust forward for adiuis:!ioM into the Union, as States, until they had sufficient population. In that, the California Democracy seem not to have imit;ited us ; whether because they had some trouble on the subject of the conference bill, or for what other cause, I am unable to pay. In this connection, I will inform the Senator what I have always understood the Kansas-Nebraska bill to mean ; what I believe almost every Democrat in the northern States understands it to mean ; what it has been represented to mean, day after day. month after month, in our Senitorial discussions, until within the last ,'ear. I adopt for that purpose the language of Franklin Pierce, the President who igned the bill, as contained in his message to the Senate, January 24th, 1856: "The act to organize the Territories of Nebraska and Kansas was a manifestation of the legisla- tive opinion of t'nnirress on two great points of constitutional conjitruction : one that the designation of the t>i)iindarics of a new Territory, and provision for its poliiioul organization and administration as a Territory, are measnres which, of right, fiill within the powers of the Gerieral GoTernuienl; and the other, that the inhabitants of any such Territory, ronsiiicred as an inchoate State, are entitled in the exercise of self-government, to determine for themselves what shall be their own domestic inslitutious, subject only to the Constitiilitm and tlie laws duly enacted by Congress under it, and to the power • f the existing States to decide, according to the provisions and princijdes of the Gonsti- tution. at what lime the Territory shall be received :is a State into the Union. Such are the great pt)liiical rights which are solemnly declared and attirmed by that act." But, sir, the very interpretation to which the Senator from California objects, namely, that the people of a Territory, through their Territoiial Legislature, can, ■without authorit}- from Congress, and even as against the authority of Congress, exclude or admit the relation of master and slave, is older than its announcement by General Cass, or any other northern man. It was a favorite doctrine with the southern States tifteen 3'ears ago; and to jirove that, I shall cite two resolutions adopted by the Legislature of Florida, and approved by tlie Govci-iior of the State, December 30th, 1S47. Mr. Secretaiy, read me the second and third of those reso- lutions, anngres.s, a debate was sprung upon the Senate upon the flnemlon of Ierrll.irl»l noverelgnty. AVe had long pxpeoled such a discussion, because it was the duly of .Mr. Uoi-oi.as lo give his reasons to the Senate and to the country for the line of policy he hiul conhidered It his duly to adopt in the henalorial canvass ?in Illinois. The doctrines he had •Towed In his Kn-eporl speech hud been on.lomned In the Senate by his removal frr)m the chiilririnn/.hli. of the Territorial CommilCee of that l-ody, and it Was expected that he would defend the pofilinn h<- Imd taken, and give ample time to those who differod from him to give Ihe reasons Uiat had iiillu. need iheiii In removing him from lliat iinportaiit position, at the heail of the Territo- rial Coininllli e, ho had UllcJ for «o many vears in the Senate." Sir, I cannot but admire llie justice of the Senator from California. lie tells 119 that the Senator from Illinois, [Mr. T)orflLA!!,] was cito.l, like a iiotoriouf hort-tic, in his absence — as we sometimes cite the defendant in ejectment, in cases of vacant pos- session by nailing up a notice on a fence-corner or somewhere else ; and, thereupon, 3 majority of the Senate proceeded to the form of a trial, and condemned and exe- cuted him; yet, according to the Senator from California, after he had been tried ami convicted and executed, it was the dnt^- of the Senator from Illinois to come in at some future time, and defend himself: " Wc oft have licaril of Lydford law ; Wliere in the morn they hang and draw. But sit in judgment after." It is not for me to defend the Senator from Illinois; you all know that he is ahnndant- Iv able to defend himself I do not stand here to advocate the claims of any individual. But if the Senator froiii Illinois was expelled from his place at the head" of the cora- mittee on Territories, for the reason here assigned, take my word for it, Senators, you must also expel from fellowship ninety-nine hundred! lis of the Democracy iu every non-slavcholding State. It is no longer a question of individuals ; and instead of assaulting one man, and that in his absence, it would have been more creditable, at once, like the Senator from Georgia, to arraign the entire party in the nortliera States, and condemn that. I was not here when the famous trial, judgment, and execution were transacted ; and never did understand, until I rea-u settled, by compact between the States, in the old Continental Congress ; for that Congress, where the States had equal votes, was properly likened by Chief Justice Taney, in the Dred Scott case, to a meeting of ambassadors. He therefore, and properU^ characterized the ordinance of 1787 as a compact between the States themselves, as sovereigns, through their respective am- bassadors. The authors of the Constitution left the question where they found it; and it remained iu the same condition until November or December, 181',*, when the Missouri controversj' arose. That related to territory acquired by the Louisiana purchase, and subsequent, of course, to the ado])tion of our Federal Constitution. The very fountains of bitterness seem to have been suddenly unsealed ; and all the wisdom of our fathers, in excluding this subject from the Constitution, and thereby disarming the Congress of the United States with regard to it, became of no avail. The purest and best of our j)uhlic men believed that Congress had no axithority to regulate the domestic or municipal atl'airs of a Territory, as against the will of the citizens inhabiting it ; and I'rcsideiit Monroe actually wrote a messoge— ^the manu- Bcript of whirh is yet in existence — returning the bill known as the Missouri Com- promis ■ of March Gth, 18"2t>, without aiqircnal. Afterwards, at the suggestion of Mr. Madison, by letter, that a veto eouldonly bejustitied in cases free of doubt, Mr. Monroe yielded his own opinion; and this the more readily because, unconstitu- tional as the act might seem, it carried into etl'ect an old agreement of partition between the States themselves. I confca.s, Mr. President, that but for extraordinary circumstances in our history, it would have been a rash and inexcusable act to disturb that compromise ; but after •we had aci|uired territ(jry from Mexico, the State of California, in 1848, compelled Ui to adopt another rule. If we had prolonged the compromise line to the Pacifi,© 9 ocean, as some desired, we should thereby have divided thot Stiil*; in twuin, and de- stroj-fd the most notable instance of ''si|uiittiT soviTeiKnty " «mi nn-nid. To uvoid such injustice, we abandoned tlie ancifnl idi-u of an i-.iual"|>artilioh of t.riilory, aa between theSoutii and the North, and made Californiii herself the exuiii|ile in future cases ; declaring that what her people had done, even without the assent of Cuiigrevi, sliould be ratified and forever established. The compromise of 185U, while it provides that the people of every Stnt.', when they come to be admitted as a State, shall have the absolute ri^dit to exclude or tolerate slavery, does in effect ignore that question duiing the whole ['eriod of Ter- ritorial existence. It was left to the judicial authorities for ihcision, wliHther upon the former laws of the Mexican Republic, or the acts of the Territorial legi^luture, or upon local usage and custom, it was not intended that Congress sitould ever be consulted. I now come to the Kansas-Nebraska bill, which only proposed to render effectual the principle declaimed in the Territorial acts of New iSIexico and Utah. Its first or second section disposes of the whole subject of admitting Kansas and Nebraska into the Union as States. It copies the very words of the Utah and .New .Mexico acts, and promises them admission at the proper time, with or without slavery, at their own option; but in a subsequent section, only applicable during the Territorial fona of government. Congress abrogated the Missouri Compromise line because it had ahead}' become inconsistent with the resolution that Congress would not touch the question one way or another. The act of Congress approved March (1, 1820, woa annulled, bat with au express declaration that the object was to leave the Territo- ries us free as the Constitution of the United States would suffer them to be. Every act of legislation emanating from authority outside of the Territories was expunged ; they had i clean sheet — tabula ra^^a — as several orators aflii-med. And in order more completely to erase whatever had been written upon the tablet, at any former period, the Badger proviso declared that the repeal of the Missouri Compromise should not be construed to revive s\.ny law, or usage, or custom, or regulation, whether of French, or Spanish, or colonial origin. But, sir, two other provisions were requisite. The ordinance of 1787 reserved to Congress au authorit}* of revision, approval, or rejection, as to all acts of the Terri- torial legislatures. I cannot say whether Congress ever exercised that authority, but the instances of disapproval or rejection must have been few a d in extraordi- nary circumstances. The provision had been copied in all our Territorial acts, but remained a dead letter. We had not, for man}- years, interfered with the laws of the Territories, and the pretence of it ought to have been abandoned. That provis- ion was copied, nevertheless, improvidenUy, into the organical laws for New Mexico and Utah, in September, 1850. What say you, my Southern friends, to this J New Mexico and Utah have established slavery ; have given to property in slaves as ample protection as you could wish ; and yet, by the terms of their organical acts, that le- gislation is subject to the revision of Congress. I read from the seventh section of the New Mexico act : " All the laws passed by the Legislativ^Assembly and Governor shall be sobinitleil to the Con- gress of the United Slates ; and if disapprOTed, shall be null and of uo eCfecl." It is that to which I have drawn your attention. Senators, by the resolution under debate. At the time of the Kansas- Nebraska bill, when this difficulty was suggested, Mr. Weller, of California, moved that a similar reservation in that hill be stricken out, and it was stricken out. And wherefore? Because Congress intended thereby to disclaim any right of interference with the Territorial legislation. Moreover, by the Kansas-Nebraska bill, provision was made to enable every person, niaster or slave, to appeal a cause involving a claim of service, or of freedom, directly to the Supreme Court of the United States. Need I ask you, Senators, the reason of this? You knew there was a difference of opinion between the supporters of that very bill Mr. Stuart, of Michigan, believed the Wilmot proviso to be constitutional; his colleague, General Cass, did not. Many Senators believed that Congress had power to protect slavery in the Territories," but no power to abolish or restrict it. The bill was intended as a compromise of all these opinions; and you provided an appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States, in order that all questions of differ- euce might be peaceably settled. Now, why does not that compromise yet stand? I heard it said here, at the last session, that the Dred Scott case meant thus and so. Well, sir, so many things have been affirmed in regard to the Dred Scott cose, that I fear the commentaries will exceed, in bulk, the case itself. I hear.! it confi- dently asserted in this Chamber, on the 23d of February last, that the Constitution oi the United States secured to a master the right to carry his slave into a Territory, 10 and there hold the slave, ad lihitam, in defiance of Territorial legislation ; hut the Attorney (irneral tells us, in his late pnnipiilft, that "jSobohv" ever claimed .-ueh a doctrine. Gentlemen, 1 leave j^ou to the Attorney General. No 8nch proposilion ■was hefore tlie court; was argued to the court; wa.s decided by the court; or oven considered by tlie court in any shape or form ; and it is altogetiier iinposbible for any man, with the slightest regard to his own reputation as a i.' wyor, to assert lliat the Drcd .Scott case determines anything whatsoever as to the !in:its of Territorial authority on this subject. In fact, one of the jinlges expressly declared tlin.t he neither could, nor would, decide any question of the sort.* At all events, if the Supreme Coui't has so decided, as you prelend, it will so de- cide again. The case of Dred Scott did not ai-ise upon any act of aTei-ritorial legis- lature, but upon an act of Congress. Therefore, when the act of a Tevritniial legis- lature shall have come before the Supreme Court for adjudication, you mav well consent, as I consent, to abide the decision. Whatever that decision may be — wiiether it shall, or shall not, correspond with n\\ opinion — 1 say here, both as a Sf vator and as a citi/.cn, the decision must be carried into effect. We cannot live in neavi'rniiienf. How n\uch municipal power may be exercised by the peoplu of the Territory, before their adniissioii luthe Union, the courts of jus- tice eannot ileeidc. This must depend, for the mo»l part, on jiolilieul considerations, which cannot enter Into thedelermlnntion of a case of law or equity. I do not feel called upon todefiue tlie jurisdic- tion of Congress. It is sufllcienl for Ihe decision of this case to .ascertain wliether tin' residuary sov- erclffnty of the States or f>coplo h;i» been invaded liy the eiphth section of the act of March G, 1S20, I have cileil, in ho far us il <'iinc('ruH tlie capacity mid xtdlwH of persona in the condition and circum- ■lancca of the plaintiff and his family."— I'J Howard, .014, 51S. 11 lie owners of slaves that adequate protection for their slnvo property to which owni-r* of property if other Icinds are entitled, or which, from iu nutiiru, llicy iiuiy require to stcun' them in iu pos- ession and enjoyment." I repeat, fi-ankly, Miat I will give to that species of property sncli inotection, by ict of Congress, evei'ywlicre, as Iwill give to any otlier Fpe.-i.'s of property ; never- ,heless, in my opinion, Congress has no power of hx-nl or iniinieipal leirislation over my of tlieiu. I do not say tiiat Congress cannot interfere with a iiigli iiand ; hut iifl 1 question of legislative power, of subjects to be controlled bv tis, T sliall object Persistently, and to the end. Some States of tlie Union, and oven pome miinieipal ^Governments, have provided that no man shall bring gunpowder within their limits, ?-xcept under certain restrictions; but, unless my opinion l)e correct, a Territorifll Legislature cannot even provide to that extent; because gunpowder is property, and juch legislation is of an "unfriendly" character. So with reference to nrdent spirits, ■iome of the New England States have enacted laws wliieh go far to destroy, or at least impair, the right of property in them ; yet, according to the doctrine which I Qow oppose, a Territorial Legislature cannot even re-enact the Maine liquor law. If the Legislature of Mississippi mean that it is the duty of the Federal Onvern- ment, as the governinent alike of slaveholding and non slavehr>ld)ntr States, to regard ivith equal favor the property of the people in every State — to make no discrimina- tion as against one, aiul in favor of another — to hold the scales of justice fairly be- tween them, I adopt their resolution. Mr. DAVIS. I will say to the Senator from Ohio, that to hold the scales of justice equal, and to hold them so as to give adequate protection to all citizens in tlieir rights of person and property, is exactly what the resolutions mean ; but, as I under- Jtaud him, his doctrine would go to the extent of denying to the Federal Government the power to create a Territorial government at all. Mr. PUGH. I have not said that. Mr. DAVIS. You doctrine tends to that, if I understand you. Mr. rUGII. I think not. Mr. DAVIS. If the Senator thinks we have power to create a Territorial gov- jrnment, and to invest the Territorial government, as our agent, with functions to protect persons and property in the Territories, the common property of the United States, then he understands tlie resolutions properly to mean that the Gov- ernment can be invested with functions to give ade(juate protection equally to all, no discrimination against any. Mr. PUGH. I repeat, sir, that I will make no discrimination; and if that be the meaning of the Mississippi resolution, I have no objection to it. But I do not agree that a Territorial Legislature is the mere agent of Congress. Who made it our agent? Do we elect its members? Can we displace them? Sir, the Legislature is the agent of the people of the Territory, as much as we are the agents of the peoj)le whom we represent. The territorial government is, in one sense, a creature of Congress, or rather of the Federal Government; and so is ever}- new State. We passed a law authorizing the people of Minnesota to choose their delegates, and form a State constitution — the same form of legislation, precisely, which we fipply to Territorial organizations; but who ever pretended that this made the State of Minnesota an agent of Congress ? Nor does it follow, in every case,' that a creature may not enjoy other powers than its creator has conferred — powers derived from another source, and guided by a different will. I believe that Territorial Legisla- tures are agents of their own people ; that it is not for Congress ordinai-iiy to super- vise their enactments ; that they exercise a clear right of self-government ; and if any man eouiplaius of them, their acts, or oinissions, he must seek the judicial tribu- nals with his complaint, if it be capable of judicial cognizance, or otherwise patiently submit. I say, in addition, that whatsoever the judicial authorities decide, must be carried into effect. Mr. Davis. I would ask the Senator from Ohio where the Territorial Legisla- ture gets its authority. Is it from the act of Congress, or is it from the will of the people who inhabit the Territory, alone? Mr. PUGH. It is chiefly from the will of the people inhabiting the Territory. Mr. DxWlS. Then I would ask the Senator, further, why it is that he makes an appropriation to pa}' members of the Territorial Legislature ; how it is that he in- vests the Governor with a veto power over their acts; and how it is that he appoints judges to decide upon the validity of their acts? Mr. PUGH. I will endeavor to answer each of the Senator's questions. I appro- priate money for the expenses of a Territorial government because it is cheaper to 12 do that than to pay taxes on the property of the United States. We own the greater part of the land in the Territories, and we pa}' no taxes for it. Mr. DAVIS. Oh, but tiie Senator being from one of those States wliere this Government was tlie proprietor of the land, must be familiar with the fact that, aft;er the Stale of ( )hio was admitted, and had a Lesjislature of its own, a Legislature of the people distinctly, they paid their own Legislature, though tiiis Government still continued to be tiie proprietor of the laud. Mr. PUGII. Yes, sir; but the Federal Government stipulated to give us five per cent, of the net proceeds of all the lamls sold in our State for an indeliuite period. Mr. DAVIS. Not to pay your Legislature. Mr. PUGH. It was for general State purposes. Mr. DAVIS. No. Mr. PUGIL Yes, sir, for internal improvements. Mr. DAVIS. It was a contract between tlie States and the Federal Government that they would not tax land which belonged to the United States for a period after its sale under the present cash system. It was a contract between the States and the United States on those terms, we agreeing to pay the per ceiitage. Mr. PUGIi. It amounts to the same thing at last. I say that the reason why this Government has, from the beginning, paid the expenses of the Territorial Legislatures, is because it was cheaper to do that than to pay taxes as a landed proprietor; and certainly, no State ought to deny the liability of the Government to such taxation, when, like Ohio and Mississippi, she has once insisted ujion it, at the time of admission into the Union, and only relinquished the claim by an express contract. The Senatoi' asks me, in the next place, why I give a veto power to the Governor. I would as lief he should not have it; but I can well understand the principle on which it stands. Your territorial act, as I said last winter, is not an enabling act to the people; it is a disabling act. You claim a general authority over the public domain. You, at the beginning, own the larger part or all of the land. Yo'i throw it open to cultiraii'jn ; j'ou say to the people of the States and from abroad: "Go in here; we permit you to go; we permit you to acquire a title by the preemption law, by the homestead law, by the donation law, or by direct purchase; and we stipulate for the quiet possession of your lands, and for the security of j'our titles, provided you will agree to certain terms which we have set down in the organical act." What are those terms? "Ti>at you shall not tax the property of non residents higher than that of residents; that you shall respect those great pririfiples con- tained in the 13111 of Rights to the Constitution of the United States; and that you shall so conduct your government and legislation as to bring yourselves, ultimately, into the Union as a .State; that you will not wander off and make alliances with other nations, or cease to be our colonies." These conditions are wiitten down in the oi'ganical Uiw; and to secure their observance, by the people of the Tei-ritory, a veto power — the power of the ancient tribune — is reservdl to the Government of the United States. It is to prevent any infraction of the conditions. Mr, DAVIS. The Senatoi' from Ohio will permit me to interrupt him once more. He leaves out a very important |)rovi3ioii. T jis money was not given to the States tu-erely for that cnnsideration, and for them to do as they pleased with it; but the States having an interest inthe lands within the limits of the Stale where this sover- eignty was to be erected, reseiwed from the eminent domain, which was about to pass to the people of the State, certain rights and privileges, and imposed condi- tions ou which this money was given. Amone; other considerations which he has named, tiiere is one whicii he has omitted. An obligation was imposed on them to uiuke roads leadiug to the State, and im[)rovements in the Stale, to accelerate the sale of the public lands, which belonged to the United States. Mr. Pb'GH. I do not doubt that the Government of the United States may have been operated upon, to some extent, by that motive. Mr. DAVIS. But it is set forth as being for the purpose. It is declared in the act. Mr. PU(JII. Suppose the (iiivernment of the United States did so declare; the State of Ohio, upon the o'.her hand, claimed the right to tax the lands of the Fede- ral Government withia her limits, and only surrendered that claim ui^on a stipula- tion that five per cent, of the proceeds of "those lands, when sold, should be appro- priated to State purposes. My colleague knows that the making of roads, in Ohio, for the first twenty years, was an important element of our State policy; and the five per cent, fund was in aid of that policy, as one of the purposes of the State gov- ernment. Now, I say that the Government of the United Htntes, being the largest landed proprietor in each Territory, avoids payment of taxes by means of a com- 13 mutation ; or, in other words, it pays the Territorial Legislature, and tho Baluriea of a few Territorial officers. But I was speaking of the veto power. Tliat originates noliiing ; the fiovernor can make no law ; can i)i'opose no law. The veto jxiwer is juirely ni'^nlive. If the Governor sliould veto an act, the former law would stand. In no event can llie power be used to establish or exclude slavery. If the Territorial Lcginlal urc wlionid pass an act to allow slavery, and the Governor should veto it, what would he the ertect? Simply, there would be no law, at all, upon tlie subject. Sujipose the Territorial Legislature should pass a law excluding tlavery, and the (Jovernor should Teto that, it would have the same effect; they would be without any law. All this pretext, on either side, that the veto power of the CJovcrnor, in a Territory, can touch the question of slavery, one way or another, is absurd. Now, as to the judges. Do we not appoint judges in the State of Mis.si8fiippi ; federal judges, attorneys, and marshals? Have we not a Circuit or District (,'oiirt of the United States in every State? What more have we provided for the Terri- tories? We have appointed judges, attorneys, and marslials of the United Stutea for the Territories; and have authorized the Territorial Legislatures, foi- tlieir own convenience, to invest the Courts of the United States witli such juri»dietion of causes, between individuals, as they shall find expedient. At the same time, the Teri-itoi'ies have count}- courts and judges; appoint their own justices of the peace or magistrates, and constables. Sir, 1 tell the Senator from Mississippi, furthermore, that wlien he has reduced a Territorial government to a mere agency of Congress — when he has shown that Con- gress exercises all the power of a Territorj-, indirectly, thi'ough an agent — power "which could as well be exercised directly — for that must follow ; wlien lie has in- vested Congress with local authority to that extent, he has not only broken through the Constitution of the United States, in one of its express prohibitions, but has overridden the decision of the Supreme Court in Dred Scott's case. Mr. DAVIS. Will the Senator state the express prohibition that will be broken? Mr. PUGIL Yes, sir ; the prohibition is that Congress shall not exercise that kind of legislative authority excej>t within a district of ten miles square, ^'owhere else can it be exercised by Congress, directly or indirectly, according to the Consti- tution. Did our fathers cautiously limit Congress, in the exercise of sucli authority, to a district of ten miles square; arid then, in the vast Territories of the Union — larger than the area of the original States — can Congress exercise an imperial, arbi- trary, sovereign, unlinuted power of legislation ? I say that the Supreme Court, in Dred Scott's case, decided against the Senator's position. The Court said that the clause to which I have alluded, just now, amounted to a prohibition of such authority, by Congress, in the Tei'ritories. Therefore, if a Territorial government be what the Senator claims, it is unconstitutional. Mr. DAVIS. I do not know that I understand the Senator. Does he say that Congress has unlimited power within ten miles square? That the Constitution con- fers power of unlimited legislation within ten miles Sfjuare, and prohibits it from exercising such power elsewhere ? Mr. PUGIL 1 will get the book, and will read it to the Senator ; he can see for himself. Mr. DAVIS. I think I have read it before. Mr. PUGIL I think, when the Senator has heard the langnage, he will find it to be as I have said : " To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles sqttare) as may, by cession of particular States and the acceptance of Congress, become Ihe Beat of the Government of the United blrites" Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President Mr. PUGIL Let me read it all : " and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the TA-jiislature of tho State in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings." Mr. DAVIS. Now, Mr. President, from what the Senator has read, he shows his argument to be altogether unfounded upon the Constitution. Instead of unlinuted, he reads exclusive. Exclusive of what? Of any other authority over the ten 1 miles square ceded for the seat of Government ; not uidimited power; far from it — not imperial, but restricted by the grants of the Constitution — exclusive only. 1 Then, again, so far from its being confined to ten miles square, before he finished 1 reading — and he was anxious to finish it all — he read : " arsenals, forte, and dock- u yards." Are they within the ten miles square? If not, on what, I ask, does his argument rest^ Mr. PUGH. The Senator does not seem to me to have altered his former position ; and he certainly has not disturbed mine in the least. I used the phrase "unlimited authority" wi>en I spoke of the Territories; and I say his doctrine leads to the monstrous conclusion that, whereas the exclusive legislation of Congrpss is limited to particular places by the Constitution, yet in the Territories of the I'nited States as the}- existed when the Constitution was siirned, in the lai'trest portion oi' the domaia over wliich the Constitution extended, the power of Congress is not only exclusive, but unlimited, arbitrary, and subject to no control. He is driven to that. Mr. DAVIS. If the Senator from Ohio will permit me, I will tell him that the only monstrosity I see is that of absurdity in his argument. He reads here, with great emphasis, a ^^rant of power over ten miles square to be given fur a seat of Government, as though that had anything to do with the territory, and then jumps to conclusions not founded on what I saireafter formed into a State, and that the organieal act is a stij)ulation with the people there assem- bled from various States or other countries — a stipulation in the nature of a contract between them and us, bv whicii we agree to acknowledge their right of self-govern- ment, and in consideration of our protection against foreign nations, and of the privi- lege of admission into the Union at a future time, they agree to certain conditions therein expressed; when j'ou have made a Territorial government of that character, you may well claim the power to establish it as an incident to the power to admit a new State into the Union. Every attempt to turn away from this constitutional question for the advantage of one section or another; every pretext, because a man does not b(;lieve, as some contidently assert here, a Territorial legislature to be the agent of Congress, tliat he is therefore making discriminations between the [)roperty of the South and of the Xorth, is a mere device to hide the lack of argument. Mr. President, the opinions which I have expressed on the subject of Territorial governments, are not onl\' in accordance with the Constitution of the United States, and with the principles established in Dred Scott's case, but they accord with the teachings of the Deuiocralic Kepublican party in its purest and best time. If I un- derstand the doctrine maintained upon the other side, it is, that inasnmch as the Government of the United States owns the public lands, and ho4ds them in trust for the people of all the States, that confers on the Government a right of immediate, local, mu!iicipal regulation; in other words, there is a sort of feudal right in Con- gress with respect to the Territories and their settlement. Well, sir, 1 now read from a much wiser man than myself: " The reason for intruslinj; Congress with the power of admitting new States, was not to enlar.se the j)owers of iliat body, nor to bestow on it a species of leirislation purely looal, but to avoid tlie inconveniences which would have resulted Ironi the reservation of the right by the parties \ylio hold it. Hence, as a mere naUcd power or trust was conferred, there exists a precise desoription, in a few words, of the body politic to be admitted, and also of the compact of which it was to become a member. " J^ew States were to be admitted into 'Wm Union.'' I do not discern any words which could more exactly have described parties and rights. The new parties were to bo the same as the old, and the rights received were to be those conferred or secured by 'this Union.' It', tli.reforc, 'this I'nion' do'es not empower Congress to legislate evclusively in relation to the internal eivil govern- ment of each old State, it cannot so legislate as to those admitted. In fact, "this I mow ' would never have existed, had such a power bceu proposed by the Constitution. The people of no one State cliiimed any power of local regulation over unolher. They neither thought of, nor tate, or several, posses.scd a right io form a constitution or to m\».<-\ internal laws for the government of another State; and it is a sound principle, that a delegated power cauuot exceed Ih* , power from which it was derived. 13 " A power in Congress of annexing conditions to the admission of Stales into Dm Union, wonl J bo in its nature nioii:irchicaI, and analojious to tlie feudal sysioni. Chiefs estnblislieil llmt system upon the priiici|)le that conquests were made for Iheni, and llius ol)tained tlio right of annexini; eonill- tions to ftraiits. Rut with us, conquests are made for the conimuiiity, and not for l"oM|;rcs» ; and iho principle which susUiined the right of annexing conditions, in the case »( feu