570 ni fl5 922 »py 1 itary Policy of the American Legion HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS UNITED STATES SENATE SIXTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION RELATIVE TO AWARDS OF DECORATIONS AND THE MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION I'riiited for the use of tlic Coininittee on IMilitarv Affairs WASHINGTON GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 1922 COMIVIITTKE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS. JAMES W. WADSWORTH, Jh., New York, Chairman. FRANCIS E. WARREN, Wyoming. HOWARD SUTHERLAND, West Virginia. HARRY S. NEW, Indiana. IRVINE L. LENROOT, Wisconsin. SELDEN P. SPENCER, Mi.ssouri. ARTHUR CAPPER, Kansas. RALPH H. CAMERON, Arizona. HOLM O. BURSUM, New Mexico. GEORGE WHARTON PEPPER, Pennsylvania. R. E. Devendorf, Clerk. W. A. Duvall, Assistant Clerk GILBERT M. HITCHCOCK, Nebraska. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida. HENRY L. MYERS, Montana. MORRIS SHEPPARD, Texas. KENNETH D. McKELLAR, Tennessee. JOSEPH T. ROBINSON. Arkansas. LIBRARY OF CONGRESS RCOEIVEO f > 231925 ppcUMSlbLta OlVISION MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. FRIDAY, JANUARY 27, 1922. United States Senate, Committee on Military Affairs, W(i.'0 for the National Guard for the fiscal year beginning June 30. That, in the opinion of the Militia P>ureau, whom I am quoting, is in their .judgment sufficient only for a Guard of 143.000 men. Today there is in the National Guard of the country 140,000 men, with every rea-onable assump- tion that the number of 143,000 will be reached in a very short time ; so this committee desires to call your attention to that fact, that there are no pro- visions made in the "Budget appropriations for the Army for any increase along the lines provided for in the Army reorganization act for the National Guard, from June 30 this year and continuing through the next fiscal year. The Chairman. When you state the number as 140,000. you mean by that, do you, that that is the number that has been organized and federally recog- nized ? MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGIOISr. 5 Mr. Markey. Federally recognized. I was advised by (Jeu. Riekards yester- day that that is the number, and the committee is submitting these facts, based upon his stiitement. Senator Fletchek. Does that include officers and men? Mr. Markey. That includes officers and men. Senator Fletcher. How many officers? Do you know? Mr. Markey. I do not know, but I desire to say on behalf of ths coumiittee that we are particularly interested in the 18 National Guard provisions, as are provided for in the Army reorganization plan. We believe that those IS divisions are of first and prime imiiortance, and that the correlated groups as represented in the corps and Army troops, are of secondary importance. If there should be any way in which first consideration in the recognition of any other units would be given to the basic divisional troops, it is the opinion of this committee that that is wise and sound. The Chairman. You think it would he good policy to pernut the organiza- tion of the Army and corps troops to be delayed? Mr. Markey. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And the others to be hastened? Mr. Markey. l"es, sir. That is the opinion of the committee. The Chairman. Y"ou mean by that, the pi(nieer regiments and the anti- aircraft? Mr. Markey. Yes. For instance, Mr. Cliairman and gentlemen of the com- mittee, I was advised that of the 140,000 that there are to-day in the. National Guard, 97,000 are in the divisional organizations, and the balance are in the corps and Army troops. We consider the divisional organizations to bc> of the first importance. Senator Lenroot. Do you think provision should be made for an increased National Guard, even though in order to do so, it might l)e necessary to i-educe the personnel of the standing Army? In other words, if there is a given amount of appropriations, would you so divide it? .- Mr. Markey. The counnittee has not approached that phase' of the question, and as to just what their recommendations are I do not know. Their interest is first in the development of the citizen-soldier part of the Army. SeuiLtor Lenroot. But you hidicated in your statement that to be the fact? Mr. Markey. But we indicate also that we believe that the Regular Army, at its strength to-day of approximately 1.50,000 men, represents about what is necessary for the proper functioning of the Army of the United States, if there is desired any force in this country for emergency purposes. Senator Lenroot. Another question with reference to your brief. There seems to be some omission in your statement here : " And also that the law which allowed men who had previously been recommended for the congres- sional medal of honor, but who failed to receive the distinguished service cross, be changed so that the law shall apply to all persons now in, or who have been honorably separated from the nulitary service of the United States." Just what do you mean by that? Mr. Markey. It may not be as clear as it ouglit to be, but I want to give .vou the substance of it. The law, as provided, prevents men who were not in the service of the country from receiving proper consideration. You will notice it says, " shall apply to all persoiLS- now in, or who have been lionorabl.v sepa- rated from." That is the substance of it. It is also the oiJinion of the com- mittee that this subject should be considered under two separate heads, be- cause the first part of it applies entirely to World War veterans, and the sec- ond part would api^ly to veterans of other wars, and we do not think that one should be coupled with the other in matters of legislation. The committee will be very glad to answer any questions that will throw any further light upon this statement. The Chairman. We are very glad to have you here and to get your views, and let me say that we will be obliged to have any other observations that you have got to make concei-ning the scheme that is now working; as to how it is working out, or how you think it might be improved, or how you think it might be improved or protected. Mr. Markey. The attention of the committee might be called to the fact that this provision that we have put in our brief recommending an extension of time in considering awards for D. S. C, D. S. M., etc., is a direct mandate from our national convention, and is based upon the consideration that a gen- erous allowance of time should be given. A time limit is desirable, but there should also be a generous allowance made for those who require possibly affi- 6 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. davits that come from men in all sections of the country, and it is very diffi- cult to locate a lot of men to-day whose affidavits possibly are necessary. The military alTairs committee last year gave very careful consideration to it, and made this recommendation to the national convention, which was adopted, that the time limit be five years from the declaration of peace, which, under our interpretation, is from the proclamation of tlie President, about four uKmths ago. Senator I^enroot. Do I understand that the law now is that these medals can not be conferred after separation from the service? Mr Mabkey. Those last medals ; yes. Senator Lenroot. That is what I mean. Mr. Markey. Yes. sir. The Chairman. In your recommendations concerning the medals, did you take into account or malve any estimate of how many medals had been con- ferred thus far? Mr. Markey. We have not, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Logan. We did learn, Mr. Chairman, that the War Department did rec- onuuend that it should be extended only six months, and that matter came to our attention wlien we went before the House Military Affairs Committee yes- terday. I think we explained, or tried to explain, to them -that six months would be utterly of no avail to us ; that therefore any time which had been arrived at, after almost a year's discussion, by tiie legion military policy com- mittee, we were serious in our recommendations in asking for five years from the date of the declaration of peace. The Chairman. You think it will take that time to do justice? IMr. Logan. You see. the difficulty is rluit in the citizen army, tliese men who composed it came from all jiarts of tlie country. Recommendations were made at the time the acts occurred, and tliose recommendations in some in- stances were lost, and in some instances were not a.pproved, and never reached the l)oar.d which had tlie awarding of them. Now, in the gathering together of the records of regiments, the action wliicli was taken upon tliem comes to light, and that further information wliicli can )>e now obtained, should he ob- tained, so that these men wiio should l)e awai-ded medals may receive them. Several men who were in my regiment are now scattered all over the United States. If you want to get their aflidavits, it is a matter of substantial time to get the necessary information from these men. Therefore we believe that there should be substantial time allowed, and not the extension recommended by the War Dei)aftment, namely, a period of six months, which period wcmld liave substantially expired in another month from now. and therefore the legis- lation would have been of no avail. The original application for the award must be filed within three years after the happening of the event, so that on November 11, 1021, any applications then not pending had lapsed. If you give them six months more, it would make them six months from November 11, 1921, and that would be of no avail at all. Senator Wakren. Is it your understanding that all that were pending and not acted upon would la])se? All these applications or recommendations that were pending when the date arrived would lapse, notwithstanding they had I)een filed and received unfavorable consideration? I\lr. Logan. I think not. It is perfectly clear in my mind what would happen to those which were then pending. Senator Warren. My understanding is that tha.t time linut is simply the time for the applications to be made in, but that the bestowal could be made afterwards. IMr. Logan. My understanding of the act is that the recommendation nmst he made within a period of 3 years : but exactly as this, it could be awarded 10 years from now. Senator Warken. The reason for that is rather apparent, when in times past, before this war, the conunittee have been besieged by applications 10 or 15 or 20 years old, and the kind of evidence that was presented, of the com- mendation of ofiicers or those they served under, or with whom they served. It seemed necessary to have some date of termination. I liave not given much attenticm to the matter and I might be wrong. I sliould think that those that were filed within the time woidd be alive until they were passed upon, either favorably or unfavorably. Mr. Logan. Well, for instance, this occurred in some instances : A company conuuander would make a reconnnendation, and it came uj) to the regimental commander, who forwarded the recoujuiendation, and it went to division head- MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMEEICAN LEGION. 7 quarters, and whoever liad cliarue tlier;^ — I have seen that in some division records, wrote, without knowing anything more than lie saw in tlie aflidavits, "No," witli his initials after it, or "Yes," with his initials after it. It was no satisfactory adjudication or determinaton as to whether that man was en- titled to an award or not. In some Instances, the records going from regimental headquarters to the division headquarters were lost. In a number of instances men who unquestionably ought to get awards have- not had their matter tinally presented to the final authority, namely, the board which has been constituted for the awards. Now. time is bringing "up the ques- tion as to what happened with this reconnnendation or that reconunendation. What we want, therefore, is a deliberately detHrniincHl time in which \\e may gather together the reconnnendations which were made, see what determina- tion has been made upon them, and press for. the awards which we believed at that time ought to be given. It is not for the purpose of searching out new applicants for an award and getting an award for them; but, in fact, gathering together the recommeridations which were made at that time, or inVmie in- stances, reconnnendations which were not made at that time but shoulil have been made, and getting to those jnen the awards for their distinguished service that the (TO\ernment originally intended that they should have. It can not be done unless there is substantial time given. The men who composed that Army in large part were citizens, wlio, when they got out of that Army, had to get back and attempt to adjust themselves to' the changed economic conditions which they found upon tlieir return. For example, I was interested in my own practice. There were men in my regiment who ought to get awards, but I have been trying to gather together my own business, and not perhaps, as I should have been, devoting my time to getting tlie awards that these men ought to have. That is true with men all over the country, not only with colonels or lieutenant colonels, but with majors, captains, aiid lieutenants. Now, if a man ought to get "an award, the GovernuK^nt provides a method by which it shall be determined and how they shall get it. What they want now is. in the calmer days of peace, that they might have an opportunity of gathering together the pi-oper aflidavits and subnutting them to the properly constituted authorities and getting for these men the awards Avhich tliey may deserve. Senator Fletcher. It is not for the purpose of opening up the question and letting in applications that never have been heiU'd of, ])nt it goes back to the original company commander's indorsement and starts there, I suppose? IMr. Logan. It will have to be taken up by the man who personally saw the act itself, by the proper constituted authority recommending to the boai'd which sits here in Washington. I think, the liasis upon the papers as they are presented to them. In other words, for example, suijpose Col. Markey is recommended foi* an award; if it gets up to this boai-d and this boaril is not fuite satisfied with the affidavits which are presented, there appears in the affidavit a statement of some man who saw the act performed at that time, and additional information is required from this man. You then try to find out where Sei-gt. A is. His original address was given somewhere in Missouri. Then yon try to find him. He has moved from Missouri, and he has gone down to Texas, and you try to find him there. That can not be done in six months. If Congress determines that all the.v are entitled to now is six months, I think the Legion would say we had l>etter not have it at all, because it is useless. Senator Fletcher. Suppose Col. Markey performs some act that would entitle him to this medal, but nothing has been said aliout it heretofore, would you want to bring up that sort of a case now. to start it now? Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, Senator, it was absolutely impos- sible to operate the typewriter as prettily in those days as it is now. In very many instances it was the captain who expressed in the English language the deed* itself that got for his man the award. Oftentimes these awards failed because the language of the conii)any commander did not sufficiently express the act. There is n(>t any doubt about it. The Chairman. His mastery of English was not sufficient? Mr. Logan. The company commahder who wrote the best English in describ- ing the same act got the awai-d. Now, all the company conunanders were not college graduates, and therefore we want an op]iortunity for a prosier con- sideration, under more reasonable terms, of the nature of the act wliich was performed and the reason for the decoration. 8 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. Senator Lenkoot. I have the Uiw before me here, niul I observe that the pro- hibition is against the issuing of tliose medals after three years of the per- formance of tlie act, except in cases of those who are now in the service and the act is shown by the official records of the department. Now, do you think that this should be extended five years for the purpose of application? Should there not be some time when new applications shall be cut off prior to five years from the passage of this law? Mr. Logan. AVell, Senator, how are you going to determine when the appli- cation was made? The company commander makes application to me. I for- wai'd it and it goes to the division headquartei'S. It is handled in the division headquarters by a man who does not know anything about it, except the litera- ture as presented to him. Now. is that application made or is it not? I have never been able to determine. It never reached the board which might have passed upon it, because it stopped right thei*e. The Chairman. What Senator Lenroot means is. is it necessary to extend the period to five years for the purpose of making the application? Senator Lenroot. Initiating the application; yes The Chairman. Had you considered the possibility of limiting to a shorter period tlu> making of applications. Imt extending to the five-year period the settleme)it of the applications? Mr. Logan. I had not considered that, except .just this : If tlie act itself war- ranted a decoration, if the failure of the man to get a decoration was due n.ot to h's fault hut to tlie fault of the man who happened to be his superior officer, if when tb.ey get back from the war they are too busy with other things to get that man his decoration that man is .lustly entitled to, you are only extending to that man a widei- opportunity to get recognition, which the Government believes he ought to have if the act itself justifies it. I do not think it makes a particle of difference whether you extend the act 5 years or 20 years, if the deed itself is worthy of recognition. The sooner he gets recognition the better; but if it has to be delayed even 20 years to get justice performed, no time limit ought to be put on that. We only suggested this time limit ])ecause we believed that if they saw that they had to get these things in now, l)y raising the question and getting agita- tion on it the application will be made by men who had forgotten about the things themselves in getting for the man this recognition. They would begin to giither together their information and to get it now. For example. I have a case in point. There was a motor cycle rider in my regiment named Julius Hooley, who is a blacksmith in the city of Lowell. I do not think there was a braver man in my regiment. He had absolutel.v no distinction for his service. He was an ordinary little ruffian. He was born near Nancy, in France, and he rendered most conspicuous service. I do not know of any man in my regiment who rendered better service. He has no decoration for that service rendered. It is not entirely my fault, but it is the fault of others in the regiment that that man has not got a decoration. He is a man of no social ivositioii. but a man whom I believe ought to be awarded the distinguished service cross at least by this Government. I want an oppox'- tunity to get that recommendation of that man in. The Ch-airman. Now. take the case in hand. Woidd it not be sufficient to allow a year or two for the filing of the application and then allow a more extended period, of course, for passing upon the application? I agree with you thoroughly that this six months which is now proposed as only an extension of time is utterly inadequate. In fact, it is almost null and void the day it is enacted, but five years from now it might be a great deal easier to get applica- tions than it is now. What we are all concerned with, and you more than we, is that there be no cheapenhig of these medals ; that they be held up as real, extraordinary decorations, and if we limit the time of applications for a rea- sonable period I think we will fortify ourselves against a letting down of the standard, as reflected in applications which we will say might be put in four years or four years and six months from now. Senator Sheppard. INIust the application come from the man himself? Mr. Logan. No. The application nmst be made, generally, by one of the observers and affidavits submitted of the act itself by those who saw it. Senator Sheppard. Then, generally, it would be made by the commanding officer ? Mr. Logan. It generally was made by the commanding officer. Senator Sheppard. Does the law extending the time for application specify who must make the application? MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 9 The Chairman. No. That is a matter of regulation in the department. Senator Sheppaed. Of course, tlie man himself frequently is too modest to- make the application. Senator Lenroot. I tind another provision of the law here. In addition recom- mendation for recognition must be made within two years after the performance of the service, and it can not be conferred at all unless the othcial records in the department show distinguished service. Now, in the case you siwak of. under the law as it is. even though notwithstanding that, you can not get a dis- tinguished medal for your man. Mr. Logan. I think I could. Senator Lenroot. Yon said there was nothing in the records of the depart- ment to show any distinguished service upon his part. Mr. Logan. Right, because there were tliose in our division who arbitrarily determined, far from the .^cene of activity, whether the man ought to get an award or not. Senator Lenroot. But this language is '" nur unless tlie othcial records of the department show distinguished service." The Chairman. The applicntion from tlie ctrmpany connnander constitutes the official record. Senator Lenroot. But not at this date, I take it. 1 do not rliink the applica- tion of one who is no longer in tlie service would constitute an ofllcial record of the War Department. i\Ir. Logan. I think so. I think you are wrong about that, although you may he absolutely correct. Take my division, for instance. We came back from tlie war. and our records went to Camp Devens. They were kejit in those wooden barracks, and they went in some instances to Camp Meade. A tire occurred there and they were destroyed. We are trying to get the i'ec,0U0. Senator Sheppard. Was that what you had last year? Mr. OosBY. The estimate last year, sir, for the total was but four or five millions. For last year, the Ofilcers' Corps — remember you have got 65,000 men in the Officers' Reserve Corps to-day — G-ijOOO officers, with a certain amount of training, with certain approved standards, ready to serve the country; but last year the appropriation for them was oidy .$2.'5O,00O. That allowed soni»» hundred to go into the training camp to help in the Citizens' Training Camps, and a few to go on duty here in the AVar Department General Staff. The- reconnnendation for this year for them is three or four million dollars. That will allow 20.000 being called out for the 15-day training period. Senator Sheppard. Is that included in the .$11,000,000? 'My. Cosby. Yes, sir ; that is included in the $11,000,000. That also provides not only for the 15-day training camps, but also for some of them to act as instructors in the Citizens' Training Camps, to help in that instruction, and also for some of them to go on duty in the War Department with the General Staff. Under the present policy they have a few of the Reserve Officers on duty in the War Department. The .Chairman. I think there are not over a dozen altogether, are there? Mr. Cosby. No, sir. It is a very small amount. There is an increase this year of from .$250,000 to $3,000,000, but this Officers' Reserve Corps had never been called out before. We all know that these young men who wanted to get into active service and keep up their training have never before had an oppor- tunity. The R. O. T. C. appropriation last year was very nmch the same as they have asked for this year. La.st year it was .$3,000,000. This year it is $4,000,000. Those are in the colleges. There are about 3.50 colleges that have R. O. T. C. training camps, and as they graduate they come into the Reserve Corps and the National Guard. Senator Sutherland. What is the amount appropriated for that item? Mr. Cosby. This year $4,000,000. Last year it Mas $3,000,000. Senator Sheppard. You mean the estimate is $4,000,000? Mr. Cosby. The estimate this year ; yes, sir. Senator Lenroot. And the appropriation last year was $3.0(X),000? ^Ir. Cosby. The appropriation last year was $3,000,000, roughly, somewhere around there. For the Citizens' ^Military Training Camps the appropriation last year was $900,000, which permitted about 11.000 being trained. The recommendation for this year is .$2,700.(JOO, which would permit of about 33,000 men going into training. The Chairman. That is for the live-week period? Mr. Cosby. That is for the 30-day period. I presume the members of your committee are familiar with the general provision of these training camps, in which the Government pays all the expenses of these young men for 30-day periods. They are absolutely democratic; they are held in all parts of the country. The way that law has been administeretl is that every State and every i)art of every State has an equal chance for the young men to come to these training camps. Senator Sutherland. How is this money expended for the Officers' Reserves? Mr. Cosby. Under the law. sir, a member of the Officers' Reserve Corps is required to give 15 days on active duty, if called into active duty. In that case he is paid according to his rank. The bulk of that amount of $3,000,000 for your Officers' Reserve Corps is for the pay of the officers. They pay for their own food. That is simply their pay. It is the same in the case of a reserve officer as with a regular officer on active duty. He is simply paid his salary, and then he has mileage. IV is ordered to a certain point for training and his mileage is paid. MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 13 Senator Sutherland. It is for training, is it? Mr. Cosby. Yes, sir ; that is for active trainins". Senator Sheppard. I>o you mean tliat tliey liave training camps for tliese reserve officers? Mr. Cosby. Tlie plans of tlie War Department contemplate In eacla corps area to have training camps. Tliat is being worked out now. It is lioped now to have them trained actively with tlie troops. Some of them will train witli their own reserve divisions. Senator Sutherland. These reserve officers have nothing to do with the training camps, then? Mr. Cosby. That is gradually being worked together. These reserve officers would be called out for their 15-day training period, and then some of them, under the plans contemplated, will be given the opportunity of volunteering to give 30 clays' duty in addition, and they will he especially selected and used as instructors in the citizens' training camps. Mr. Markey. I would like to empliasize .iust there, I\Ir. Chairman, the recom- mendation of Gen. Pershing, which is unqualitiedly supported by the legion, upon the use of a certain number of these Reserve Corps officers in the citizens' training camps during the sunmier. He states that it is an experiment to be tried this sunnuer, which you can see reduces the overhead of the officer per- sonnel. If you can call out competent officers and they are qualified to give this training in the citizens' camps, or a certain number of them, rather than to keep that same number of regular officers through a period of 12 months to do the same work, it will materially reduce the expense. Gen. Pershing states that it is an experiment. It is the opinion of this connnittee that it will he a very successful experiment, and we are very heartily in accord with it. We think that that particidarly is what is in your mind, to make .some use of these Reserve Corps officers in these citizens' training camps, and if we can do so, of course, it will help in keeping the connnissioned personnel of the Army at more nearly the figure that possibly it is to-day. The Chairman. For the purpose of the record, Maj. Cosby, I wonder if you will state the qualifications for admission to the citizens' training camps? Mr. Cosby. The qualifications, sir, are very simple. A man must have aver- age general intelligence and be of good moral character. He is given that certificate by a schoolmaster or clergyman or priest or rabbi. That is what the regulations call for. That is one certificate. The other one, that he should have sufficient physical sti'ength for the work in the camp, is given by a physician. With regard to the age qualifications, the age last year ran from 16 to 35. This year they are going to raise the age limits from 17 to 25, the ■object being that most of the young men that are coming are of the high school age and some young men in the colleges. They average around IS or 19 ; but you must remember, gentlemen of the committee, that the citizens' training camps do not apply sinqily to these young boys. Their system there is to have three camps, the red course, the white course, and the blue course. The red course is the first, preliminary course in the duties of a private ; that is, the basic fundamentals that every soldier must have in every branch of the service. On completing that course satisfactorily he would then go the next year to the white course. Senator Sheppard. Does he take a full year to complete that course? Mr. Cosby. No, sir. Thirty days. If he completes it satisfactorily he will be eligible to go to the white course camp next year. In that camp the duties are more extended and he is tauglit the duties of a noncommissioned officer in some T)ranch of the service. Senator Sheppard. Is that completed in the second year? Mr. Cosby. That is completed in the secand year; the second 30-day course. Then in the third year he would take the lilue course, where he would have further training that would advance him theoretically to become a commis- sioned officer. Senator Sheppard. Is that course completed also in 30 days? Mr. Cosby. Yes, sir. It is completed on paper in 30 days, but at the same time I think everybody recognizes that you can not make an officer like that in 30 days. It is expected that when they get to that point they will take some further instruction, possibly correspondence work or outside work, because they will have to pass examinations. Only a few of those who take that training would probably be fit to be a commissioned officer. 14 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. Mr. Maekey. May I suggest here that the thought in this committee is that these citizens' training camps should be tied in with the National Guard and with the Organized Reserves. If a man, for instance, is going to the white course camp, we believe it should be used to send our noncommissioned officers from the National Guard there for their training. I felt that it would be wise to qualify the statement of Mr. Cosby so that you might know that it is not the purpose to have citizens' trainings camps, 30 days for a private, 30 days for a noncommissioned officer, and 30 days for a commissioned officer that were not helping in developing the National Guard and Organized Reserves. The thought is to coordinate these camps so that these men, when they come out of their training — for instance, a red course camp man will go first into the National Guard or the Organized Reserves and then they may be selected to go back the following year to the white course camp, if they are available material for non- commissioned officers, and later, if selected, to the blue course camp. I think the fact should be given your committee, because j'ou should realize that the.se citizens' camps are not a distinctive growth along military lines, not correlated M'ith the training of the citizen part of the Army of the United States. Senator Fletcher. These enlisted reserves may or may not l)e National Guard? Mr. Markey. Oh, yes. That is the Organized Reserves. Mr. CosB\^ The whole object of these citizens' camps is to give them an oppor- tunity for training men who have not had it otherwise, to get them interested in the subject, and then act as feeders for the National Guard and also the enlisted reserves. The Chairman. Hew did the camps turn out this last summer? Mr. Cosby. They were extraordinarily successful, sir, from the point of view of appearance of the boys ; the boys themselves, 90 to 95 per cent of them, want to come back this year. Also from the point of view of the employers. We found in the actual recruiting that young men could not give 30 days in many instances. They could not get the time off without the consent of their em- ployers where they were working; but the employers found that when they came buck their discipline had improved so much and also their health had improved so much that the.v are now in favor of having their young men go. Senator Spencer. Was the nuijority of attendance from the employed class or from the school class? Mr. Cosby. Last year they were young. They were mostly from the school class; but as they go on and increase in numbers you will get a larger propor- tion from the employed class, because nearly all young men over 16 years old work. We found also, sir. that a great many of them enlisted in the National (iuard. The Chairman. You mean after they left the camps? Mr. Cosby. After they left the camps. Others are joining up with the enlisted reserves. The Chairman. Gen. Logan, you ai*e an old guardsman. How does the guard regard the Organized Reserves now? Mr. Logan. I think the relationship between the National Guard and the Organized Reserves is im a much more intimate and friendly basis than it has ever been. I remember at the outbreak of the war they came to us just before, we went to France in August. 1917, some W officers who were reserve officers, and we accepted them with a great deal of diffidence and an attitude almost approaching hostility. We had a lot of noncommissioned officers whom we regarded as splendid men, whom we wanted to promote, but these men came to us. They promptly became a part of our organization, and many of them were- the most efficient officers we had. I think we learned, therefore, from our ex- perience that in the first place we were, through this movement, getting efficient officers that we were not otherwise getting; that it was increasing very largely the efficiency of the organization to which they came. As a result of their very splendid service in the war, I think there is a very decided movement on the part of the National Guard not only to cooperate but to encourage every effort on the part of the Government to strengthen and increase the movement for the- Organized Reserves, for its officers and its ]iersonnel. The Chairman. You think it is a pretty good recruiting agency, in a sense,, for the Guard? Mr. Logan. Well, I don't know that it is going to work out exactly in that respect. On the contrary, we think that men who find that they haven't got an opportunity of serving in the guai'd are going info other organizations, be- MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMEEICAN LEGION, 15 cause of the difficulty of giving tlie time necessary for efficient service in tlie guard. I do nut think it is going to he a very great recruiting field for the guard itself. Mr. IMarkey. Tlie guard will he a hetter recruiting agency for the reserves. Mr. Logan. I think so. The Chairman. In other words, the guard does not fear the reserves? Mr. Logan. No; I think not. I think that there is a very much better attitude all round than there has been for many years. I think that all elements com- posing the Army are working more nearly along harmonious lines than they ever have worked before. I am sure that in this committee, which represents every branch of the Army, there has never been more harmony than on this question. Senator Fletcher. The question would be whether wo are not rather dupli- cating our effort in launching, exi^enditures that we uiight avoid by not keep- ing up the two organizations, whether it would not be better to center on the National Guard, for instance. Sir. Logan. Of course that all depends. Senator, ujion how many men you want to get into the service of the United States. Personally, there is a dist net difference between the two services — the service in tlie National (luard and the other service about which we are talking. Senator Sutherland. Can you state that briefly? I d(» not quite understand the distinction. ]\Ir. Logan. A man, for example, who is iu the National Guard is required to assemble regularly and is continuously under military instruction. Their opportunity of being called into the Federal service is one which can be imme- diately complied with. In other words, you can take your National Guard and you can call it out promptly ; you can make it act at once. The Chairman. You can send it to the border, for example? Mr. Lo(;an. You can send it to the border, as you have done. The other or- ganizations are being gathered together now for the purpose of making com- pleted iniits out of them, which can get some service, but not the weekly and in some instances daily service that the National Guard is getting. It is the reserve force that will follow along after the National Guard. You will get. your National Guard, and then these other men will come along afterwards. Senator Spencer. Available for call if needed? j\Ir. Logan. Available for call if needed. The Chairman. But you ought to state that they might be called out only in case of war or a national emergency declared by Congress. The National Guard can be called out by a governor of a State, or can be called out by the President of the United States to repel invasion, suppress rebellion, etc. In other words, the obligation is nuich heavier than the reserves' obligation. Senator Lenroot. To that extent the guard is that much more important than the reserves. iNIr. Logan. We think so; yes, sir. So that the young man can not fail, therefore, to go into the guard except with the understanding that he may be at once called upon and will liave to give up his civil obligation in response to what is regarded as a national duty. Senator Lenroot. Is it possible that because of the lesser obligation on the part of the reserves that men do go into the reserves that otherwise would go into the guard? Mr. Logan. I do not think there is any doubt about it. Senator Lenroot. Then we have lessened the efficiency of the guard to tliat extent, have we not? Mr. Logan. In other words, when I get to the point that I decide to give up my connnission in the National Guard, but still desire to have an opportunity to sei-ve the Nation in time of need, still having a military bent. I am going to see if I can not get into the Organized Reserves. Senator Lenroot. But you might stay in the National Guard but for the existence of the reserves? Mr. Logan. No; I think not. I think every one of us looks forward to the time of turning over to the younger men the oppfg'tunity of getting into more active service, but still hold ourselves ready in case of emergency, for we have followed this game for many, many years, and we would like to still remain in a position where we can continue to render service to tlie Government in thne of need. 16 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAK^ LEGION, Senator Spencek. Now, while it is actually tnie that there may be a few that would go into the reserves because it is available, who, in case the reserves were not available, might go into the National Guard, is it not equally true that that number is comparatively negligible compared to the much larger number who would go into the reserves because it is available, who, if it were not available, would go nowhere? I\Ir. Logan. There is no doubt about it. For example, a man went into the war and served in the Officers' Reserve Corps out of a feeling of duty, and there was that opportunity for them to give service, and they were determined and anxious to get into it. They were not in the National Guard before the war, because that necessity did not impress them or they were not willing to give their time from their duties to the service in the National Guard, Init who are willing to give a lesser time from their business duties to military service. Others are particularly fond of it and are willing to .ioin the National Guard. Therefore the Organized Reserve is an opportunity where this man can be in training and can be called upon by the Government in a nmch greater state of efficiency than if the Government failed to provide that opportunity for this man by appropriating the money for the Organized Reserves now. In other words, you are getting very nmch more efficient service from this civilian popu- lation than if you failed to make the appropriation. In other words, as the military game progresses these men will not have progressed with it, and we certainly want progression, which they can get by a slight expenditure on the part of the Federal Government. You are getting a wonderful personnel when you are getting these men in. Senator Spencer. If there were no Organized Reserves at all, the service of these men would be entirely lost? Mr. Logan. Absolutely, sir. Some few of tliem would go into the National Guard, but I know that in my own case, for instance. I happen to be a brigadier general of the National Guard now, and some men whom I asked to go on my staff, \A'ho had been Reserve officers, said that they could not atford to give up the time to the National Guard, but that they would go into the Reserves or they would go to war again, but they were not going to be cont nually under obligations by which they would have to be bound if they were in the National Guard. I wanted those men actively. If you can not get those men actively, you want to get them as actively as you can get them. Tlie only v/ny you can get them is to get them into the organized Reserves. Senator Spencer. The National Guard depends in part on the individual ac- tion of the State, doesn't it? It is not independent of any State? Mr. Logan. No, sir. Senator Spencer. So that one State may promote the National Guard and another State might neglect it? Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. Senator Spencer. But the Reserve is wholly a national affair? Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. Senator Spencer. To what extent has the National Guard been reestablished since the war by the various States? Mr. Logan. I can only speak of Massachusetts with any degree of authority. There I think it has progressed to a very efficient degree. Senator Spencer. Have all the States taken action? Mr. Logan. I think so, but I do not know the degree of success they have had in the different States. I know in some States it is greater than it is in others. It always has and probably always will be. Mr. Markey. These tables are very interesting. I have observed them in the Militia Bureau. I am going to ask you to hear from Gen. Leach, from Minnesota. The Chairman. We would be very pleased to hear him. STATEMENT OF GEORGE E. LEACH, MINNESOTA. Mr. Leacpi. I would like to add just one point. I have been in the same regiment for over 20 years. ,1 understand that I was the tirst National Guard officer in the United" States to take examination for a Reserve commission. This was several years ago. I took it at Sparta, Wis. I am very much inter- ested in the Reserve Corps for the reasons that have just been advanced and for other reasons. For instance, in the Artillery we need many specialists. AVe need balloon observers. We need radio experts. Some of these men live in MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 17 towus where they can not take advantage of the National (Juard organization. Some of them live wh'.-re they can do so, but I want to keep those men with me. For instance, during the war I had an operations ofttcer who was a v,-oiulerful officer. He is now in a little town in Texas working for the Standard Oil Co. as an oil-well engineer. I want to keep that man availal)le in the service of the United States. He can not join the National Guard. There is no Guard in his town or where lie can get to it. We have iightiug nuUeriiil in the mail .service, the airplane service, and many others who are not at home, so that tliey can not join the National Guard, but these men, I understand from one of tiie members of the committee. Mr. Rickenbacher, are something like 90 per cent efficient for real .service oh account of their commercinl activities. Those men should be lined up with some service to the United States, and the Reserve Corps presents the only i)lace where they can serve. As far as the specialist in the Army is concerned, I think the Reserve Corps furnishes a very distinct service. The radio men, for instance, come from men that were with the different radio companies in the country, and are experts in their lines. Those men become excellent soldiers in a short time. They were not capable of connnanding troops in many cases, but their services are so valualile and so necessary along these special lines that I want to speak im- qualitiedly for the Reserve Corps. I have been in the Naticmal Guard almost all of my life. ]\[r. ^Iarkey. Col. Palmer is liere. and I will ask him wliether he will not make a connnent on these two branches of the service. STATEMENT OF COL. JOHN McA. PALMER. Col. PALifKR. I would like to speak particularly with reference to the possible conflict between the Organized Reserves and the National Guard. It seems to me that the great feature of tlie new national defense act is that it provides for a definite organization in time of peace of what we have always regarded as the traditional American war army; that is. an army of citizen soldiers. Sec- tion 3 of the act provides that the War Deiiarfment should determine actually the organizations that would be needed immediately on moliilizafion for national defense, and then it provides for three classes of personnel from v.-hicli these organizations may be formed. That is. tlie Regular Army, v^;hich must be very limited ; the National Guard, which will be more nunrerous than the Regu.lar Army, but still limited, not only for financial reasons but also by our aliility to fill it up by volunteer enlistments in time of peace ; then this reserve personnel. Now, we can never have enough men in either the Regular Army or the National Guard to form all of those necessary organiza- tions, so that those organizations which can not be formed from the Regular personnel or the National Guard personnel can not be formed at all unless they are formed in these Organized Reserves. But the tlieory of it is that if these units which are to come in as a third line are formed in skeleton, if it is determined in advance tliat they are to be d'rawn from particular localities — if the officers and noncommissioned officers of these units are in place in tiiese units in time of peace, then the formation of these units woiUd be very greatly expedited if some great emergency should come. I ha]ipened to be on duty with this connnittee when tlie law was in prepara- tion and I have noticed a very remarkable change of sentiment in regard to this citizens' army as time goes on. I think it is becoming more and more recognized that the National Guard is the first line of the citizen army, com- posed of those individuals who are prepared for sudden emergencies, and who voluntarily take that obligation in time of peace. The organized reserve, or second line of the citizen army, will be composed of peojjle who will be obli- gated only in the event of a great war. Now. I think that what you might call the suspicion l)etween those two forces — very natural when it started — is very rapidly disappearing. We are beginning to see more and more that if these tv,-o f()rces are developed propei-ly, each within its proper line, the development of either will help the other. I laiow it is Gen. Pershing's policy, and he has so instructed all cf)rps area conunanders, that- in finding \eterans of the war who are willing to serve in the citizen army, all of them who are free to take the National Guard obligation should regard that as the prime obliga- tion. It seems to me that, as time goes on, it will be recognized that these two forces have each an entirely separate mission, and that if either one of 18 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. them is properly developed alons the Hue of its own mission it not only will not hurt the other but will help tlie other. I am quite certain that sentiment is growing. The Chairman. Now. were there any other members of the committee who would like to ask the gentlemen any questions? Did you have any further observations to make, Col. Markey? Mr. Markey. No ; that is all, Senator. The Chairman. Do any of the rest of you gentlemen wish to say anything further? Well, we are very nuich obliged to you. I am speaking the opinion of the conmiittee when I say that I hope this will be an annual event. Mr. Markey. We hope to have the privilege of submitting to you at other times, when we are not able to come here personally, memoranda that the committee feel ought to be brought to your attention. We appreciate very much your courtesy to this committee and accept it as representative of your feelings toward the American Legion. (Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned.) X LIBRPRY OF CONGRESS 020 915 290