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 SPEECHE^S 
 
 OP 
 
 HON. CARTER H. HARRISON, 
 
 OF ILLIIS-OIS 
 
 TREATMENT OF SAVAGES, 
 
 DELIVERED JULY 8, 1876, 
 
 AND ON 
 
 TEXAS 30RDER QUESTION, 
 
 DELIVERED JULY 12. 1876. 
 
 "A nation's honor, as an individual's, is in hoQWPable 
 doing. '—Old Writer. >•' 
 
 1876. 
 
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 <308 
 
Exploration and Settlement of Black Hills Country. 
 
 SPEECH 
 
 HON. CARTER, H. HARRISON 
 
 The House liaving under consideration the bill (H. E. Xo. 1335) to declare the 
 country north of the North Platte KiA-er and east of the summits of the Big Horn 
 Mountains, in the Territory of Wyoming, open to exploraticm and settlement and 
 for other purposes- 
 Mr. HARRISON said : 
 
 Mr. Speaker: A distinguished gentleman from my own State 
 made himself famous by the assertion that no nation could exist one- 
 half free and one-half slave. Now, sir, I am going to make an as- 
 sertion, and the Record may send it down to fame, and it is this, 
 that no people can exist one-half civilized and the other half barba- 
 rous. It is an utter impossibility that we can have in this country a 
 nation marching ever onward in'the track of civilization and yet 
 keeping in her midst bands and tribes of savages in their tribal rela- 
 tions. It is an anomaly never hbard of in any other country, and it 
 is a system that must be discontinued sooner or later in this c )untry. 
 We have tried the religious plan, we have tried the Penn plan, and 
 we find ourselves constantly liable to a shock such as startled us two 
 days since. White heroes struck down by our savage proteges. A 
 friend on my left talks of the Indian heroes, but he must have a dead 
 Indian hero. [Laughter.] I never heard of an Indian a hero until 
 the halo of death has been thrown around him. The hero Indian ap- 
 peals to our sympathy, but he is a dead Indian and not a live one. 
 Tecumseh was a grand old Indian, Logan was a grand old Indian, but 
 it was not until these savages were dead and buried we recognized 
 them as heroes. It is an utter impossibility that we can continue in 
 this condition of affairs. We have a nation controlled by law, by law 
 under the Constitution, and yet Ave uphold in a large portion of our 
 Territories other nations than our own. Their people may commit all 
 sorts of crime, and the law cannot reach them. They come into our 
 own district, into the civilized portions of the country, and commit 
 murder, and they cannot be tried by a court, but they are fought with 
 under and according to the laAvs of war. 
 
 Sir, every man in America, whether he be an Indian, a black man^ 
 or a white man, should be held amenable to the laws of civilization, 
 for that is the rule of this land. Civilization takes no step backward. 
 It is ever moving onward. You might as well attempt to stop the 
 current of the Mississippi or bid Niagara leap upward as to stop the 
 
tide of civilization and emigration going into the West. Sir, it is an 
 utter impossibility. We can no more tame the leopard in his lair or 
 change his spots than you can civilize the Indians while we encourage 
 and maintain his tribal relations. I admit that if you mix him with 
 the white man you may civilize him ; but you must bring the Indian 
 under the rules of our civilization and make him somewhat amen- 
 able to law before you can change his savage nature, and until that 
 is done the problem of peace with our Indians will never be solved. 
 
 Now, Mr. Speaker, one word more. The gentleman from Massa- 
 chusetts [Mr. Seelye] asserts that it is the information that has been 
 carried from Washington to these reservations of the intention of 
 the change of the management of Indian affairs from the Interior to 
 the War Department that has incited the Indian to aid hostile tribes 
 in striking down the flower of the American Army. 
 
 How did that information get there ? Does the gentleman admit 
 that the Indian peace commission are a part of a system of spies; 
 that it is a part of their duty to carry information from Washington 
 to these people, to tell them when we are doing anything in this 
 House hostile to them, so as to force them to wage Avar ux)on us ? 
 Sir, this war was commenced three mouths ago. The bill to which 
 the gentleman refers has not yet passed, and we do not know here in 
 the House if it will i)ass or ever become a law ; and yet the peace 
 commission, fearing that power would slip from their fingers, are en- 
 couraging this state of affairs. This is at least the inference to be 
 drawn from the gentleman's remarks. Either the gentleman's infor- 
 mation and assertion are all wrong or the peace system is all wrong ; 
 one or the other. I must hold and believe, Mr. Speaker, that I be- 
 lieve the way to treat the savage is to treat him as a savage as long- 
 as he retains his tribal relations ; and as a savage teach him that we 
 are able to master him. He knows no law but force. Give him force, 
 but temper it with the spirit of Christianity and the rules of civil- 
 ization. Use force, genial force if possible, harsli if necessary, but 
 force nevertheless, and with that yon will control the Indian, and 
 at least prevent him from murdering white men. For three hun- 
 dred years we have left him in self-control and have prayed for his 
 civilization. The whole system must be changed. Scatter them 
 among the white men or sprinkle white men with them. Give him 
 civilized rulers and make him obey civilized laws. If that cannot be 
 done, then let him submit to destiny, a destiny as certain and as un- 
 erring as tlie decrees of fate. Let him go to the happy hunting- 
 grounds of his fathers, and let white men, or at least civilized men, 
 take his place. 
 
 Sir, this is a big world of ours. But, sir, it is too small to surrender 
 one inch of it to savagery and barbarism when civilization is ready 
 to enter upon that inch. It is a big, great world. But under the will 
 of high Heaven, as I interpret that will, it is for the possession of 
 man in his state of amelioration, and not to be the battle-ground of 
 savages. W^here but in America have savages and civilized men stood 
 for three hundred years side by side, and the savage savage still? If 
 the Indian is tamable, then turn over a new leaf; tame him as sav- 
 ages have been tamed in other lauds and in other ages, by mixing him 
 with his superiors. If this cannot be done, the sooner he belongs to 
 the past the better. 
 
Protection of the Texas Frontier. 
 SPEECH 
 
 OF 
 
 HON. CARTER II. HARRISON. 
 
 The House being in Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union- 
 Mr. HARRISON said : 
 
 Mr. Chairman: I dislike exceedingly to say auything in opposi- 
 tion to this joint resolution. I dislike it because the resolution ivS 
 favored by all of the delegation from Texas, a delegation which is, 
 I believe, entitled to as high respect as any other delegation in this 
 House ; every man of which is my friend. I dislike it, too, because 
 the chairman of the committee who reported the resolution is a 
 man whom I admire, and I know that he is with true German hon- 
 esty in earnest in this matter. But, sir, I feel that it is my duty 
 to oppose it. I cannot stand here and allow a resolution to pass this 
 House which I believe will bring dishonor upon the American name 
 and will make this House justly amenable to the charge of being 
 willing to dishonor the American name. 
 
 Mr. STEVENSOiSr. I desire to ask my colleague whether it is be- 
 cause he has objection to the tirst section of the joint resolution that 
 he opposes it ? ' 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I have no objection to that ; it is the second sec- 
 tion to which I object. Sir, we are asked to allow the President of 
 the United States to permit the soldiers of the United States to cross 
 the Rio Grande and go into Mexico — for what purpose ? In my opin- 
 ion, sir, to catch, as I take from this very report itself, men who have 
 gone from the Ainerican side, from Texas into Mexico, with Texas 
 cattle. Sir, it is one of the most singular of the phenomena of the 
 human mind that different men will look at the same subject appar- 
 ently with equal brains and certainly with equal honesty, and they 
 will see the facts in so different a light one from the other. The gen- 
 tleman from Texas quotes from this report to prove that it is per- 
 fectly right that General Grant, at the head of the American Army, 
 should send the soldiers of the United States into a peaceful sister- 
 republic because of the facts that are shown in this report. 
 
 Now I have read this report with a great deal of care. I have alsf> 
 read the report from the Mexican side which has been animadverted 
 upon. I do not now intend to make a speech. What I propose to do 
 is, in a sincere and earnest belief that by so doing I will simply be 
 doing my duty, to read from this report extracts which it seems to 
 me ought to convince members of this House that they should vote 
 against this second resolution. 
 
 Before I proceed to-day, however, I wish to say a word on another 
 subject. There is another reason why I dislike to oppose this reso- 
 lution ; it is because it was so ably advocated by my distinguished 
 friend from New York, [Mr. Townsend,] who spoke an hour ostensi- 
 
bly in advocacy of the resolution, but nev^er once referred to it. I 
 dislike to oppose anythiug that that gentleoiau advocates. To me 
 he has the roundest head I ever saw, not a bump upon it, and a mind 
 equally in all its characteristics as round as the head that contains 
 it. He says that he feels kindly toward the southerners, and all his 
 milk of human kindness flows out toward them whenever he gets up 
 here ; that he does not want to say anything disagreeable to the peo- 
 ple Bouth of Mason and Dixon's line. 
 
 Now, the gentleman has certainly more winning ways to make the 
 people of the South hate him than any other man I ever saw. He 
 never gets up here that he does not say something that is an insult 
 to a large portion of the members of this House. I cannot account 
 for it, for I know that he is a gentleman and a man of kind disposi- 
 tion, unless upon the supposition that he is a good deal like a baby 
 well fed and dandled upon its mother's knee. When it is perfectly 
 full of milk a little shaking causes it to gush out very freely. Now, 
 it must be that the gentleman every morning takes a full bottle of 
 gall before he comes up here, and when he rises in his seat and shakes 
 himself up the gall gushes out and flows over a portion of the mem- 
 bers of this body. 
 
 Now, I do not think that is the way to bring back the fraternal 
 feeling which once existed. The proper way is to regard every man, 
 whether from the North or the South, the East or the West, as an 
 American citizen, and to hold that when he comes into this Hall he 
 is actuated bj- an earnest desire to do that which is best for our com- 
 mon country. I do not believe the best way is to be eternally hurl- 
 ing epithets"^ into the faces of those from a different section from our- 
 selves. 
 
 It may be all correct enough to charge against republicans from 
 this side of the House, or against democrats on that side. We are 
 from the same common localities, and it may be that my neighbor, a 
 representative of the district next to mine, is a republican, and a dem- 
 ocrat may be the representative of the district next to that of the 
 gentleman from New York, ['Mr. Townsend.] But the southerners 
 on this floor are the representatives of a whole section. It is true 
 that such expressions will have the effect of throwing a fire-brand 
 upon this floor and of enkindling hatred between the two sections of 
 this country, which ought to cease. 
 
 Now, to come back. I propose to take this report, signed by the 
 gentlemen on this committee, and to read extracts from it here and 
 there. 1 shall make no logical argument, but will allow gentlemen 
 to listen to these extracts and see if we are justified in directing the 
 President of the United States to go into the territory of a govern- 
 ment at peace with ours, into the territory of a sister republic, w^eak 
 it is true, and to violate not only the sanctity of our treaties, but 
 the sanctity of good fellowship. 
 
 We would not dare to introduce into this House a resolution to au- 
 thorize the President of the United States to follow marauders into 
 Canada. I say we would not dare do it, not because we are afraid 
 of England, but because we know that the moment we pass such a res- 
 olution in this House England would consider it a declaration of war. 
 My colleague [Mr. Hurlbut] says it is the right of any government 
 to pursue marauding parties into the territory from which those 
 marauding parties may come. That, as an act of emergency, would 
 probably be justifiable to the United States. If there should be a 
 marauding party coming from Canada into New York we might be 
 justified in following that party mto Canada; but that is a very 
 
different tiling from coolly and deliberately passing a resolution by 
 the Congress of the United States authorizing the President to follow 
 these marauders into a foreign country. 
 
 Mr. HARRIS, of Massachusetts. Will the gentleman allow me to 
 ask him a question ? 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. HARRIS, of Massachusetts. I desire to ask the gentleman 
 from Illinois whether he thinks, if the citizens of Canada committed 
 depredations upon our northern frontier, and when we called ui^on 
 England to protect our citizens from them she either neglected or re- 
 fused, does he believe that the United States would not dare to in- 
 vade Canada ? 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir ; I do say that we would not dare do it 
 in this way ; and saying this I use the word dare in a proper sense. 
 We would do it by a declaration of war, not stealthily by ordering 
 our troops to follow them. We would demand of England that she 
 should protect our borders, and if she did not do that we would de- 
 clare war. Before we would do that, too, we would order a commis- 
 sion to discuss the matter with England. We are not always so mighty 
 brave. We cried out fifty-four forty or fight, and then back down 
 to forty-nine ; we have done that before. 
 
 Now, what is it asked that we shall do ? We are asked to pass a 
 resolution providing that the soldiery of the United States — I will 
 read the resolution : 
 
 Sec. 2. That, in view of the inability of the national government of Mexico to 
 prevent the inroads of lawless parties fi'om Mexican soil into Texas, the President 
 is hereby authorized, whenever, in his judgment, it shall be necessary for the pro- 
 tection of the rights of American citizens on the Texas frontier, above described, 
 to order the troops when in close pursuit of the robbers with their booty to cross 
 the Rio Grande and use such means as they may find necessary for recovering the 
 stolen property and checking the raids, guarding, however, in all cases againstany 
 unnecessary injury to peacaeble inhabitants of Mexico. 
 
 Ah ! kind Government. We will say to the soldiery, Go into our 
 sister-republic; follow these cattle-thieves, but do not injure peace- 
 able inhabitants of Mexico; do not use any more force than is abso- 
 lutely necessary ; and yet the captain of a company or the colonel of 
 a regiment is to be the judge of what is necessary ! We are asked 
 here calmly to pass a resolution to make the colonel of a regiment or 
 the captain of a company judge of what is necessary when he goes 
 into this sister-republic. 
 
 Now, sir, I am for dealing out the same even-handed j ustice to Mex- 
 ico, if we pretend to be at peace with her, that I would to England 
 with her bayonets bristling all along Niagara and the lake shores. I 
 say if we cannot make Mexico protect our border, then order a com- 
 mission. Let this Congress direct the President to appoint a commis- 
 sion to meet with a commission from Mexico. If that fails, then let 
 us be men enough to declare war. Do not let us take territory under 
 the pretense of protecting oursels'es. 
 
 The gentleman from Texas who has just taken his seat [Mr. Cul- 
 berson] says that it will not bring on war, but that Mexico must bo 
 taught her duty. Ah, Mr. Chairman, the old hatred that was aroused 
 at Alamo still rankles in the heart of a Texan. I do not wonder at it. 
 The same old hatred which San Jacinto could not wipe out still rankles 
 in him. 
 
 But my friend behind me says there is no hatred in the Texnn, 
 hatred of the Mexican. Yes, there is hatred in the Texan of the Mexi- 
 can. Carthago delenda est, has been written upon the wall of every 
 Texan's house, only the word Mexico takes the place of Carthago ; 
 
8 
 
 and the Texan always reads it, and it will not be until Mexico, his 
 Carthage, is destroyed that he will forget it. I cannot blame him for 
 it. He suffered years ago outrages few civilized nations ever attempt- 
 ed to put on another. But it is our clear right in our calmness to 
 prevent him from committing an outrage upon the people on t|;ie 
 other side belonging to a sister republic. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Permit me to send to the Clerk's desk to have 
 read a short paragraph. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. I ask the Clerk to read what I have marked. 
 
 The Clerk read as follows : 
 
 On Jannar5r 16, 1873, Mr. Hamilton Fish wrote to Mr. Nelson, then American 
 envoy in Mexico : 
 
 " The federal government of that republic appears to be so apathetic on this sub- 
 ject, or so powei-less to prevent such raids, that sooner or later this Government 
 will have no other alternative than to endeavor to secure quiet on the frontier by 
 seeking the marauders and punishing them in their haivnts, wherever they may be. 
 Of course we should prefer that this should be done with the consent, if not with 
 the co-operation, of Mexico. It is certain, however, that, if the grievances shall be 
 persisted in, the remedy adverted to will not remain untried." 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. All right, sir. Let us then try to do something 
 with the consent and co-operation of Mexico. Let us ask her to meet 
 us by commission. Let us treat this weak sister-republic as we would 
 treat proud England, with her fortresses of the sea ready to protect 
 her honor. Then if Mexico persistently refuses, or is powerless to 
 curb her maraujlers, why then, sir, we will proceed as a proud na- 
 tion conscious of the right should proceed. Then, sir, if necessary 
 let war be Punic. Then, sir, the world wall justify our cry, Mexico 
 delenda est. But not till then. 
 
 I say, let us try something else. Gentlemen say we shall pass this 
 resolution even with the Chief Magistrate up in the White House, 
 who has put his name high upon the pinnacle of fame, the man who 
 knows his name will be handed down to the latest period of time be- 
 cause of his military triumphs, and with military pride ready for 
 new triumphs. But even General Grant has not asserted that we 
 should declare war by an overt act of this sort, but told us to try 
 something else. Let us, then, try to do something else, and then, if 
 something else cannot be done, we may act. 
 
 Now I am going to commence to read the report of these gentle- 
 men, and I ask this House to listen to it, and simply to do what is 
 right. As I said, it is strange how men will learn the same facts, and 
 yet look at them with such different eyes. Here is this Captain Mc- 
 Nally, the chivalrous and bold, as the gentleman says, and let us see 
 what he says about this Territory. 
 
 And by the way, Mr. Chairman, as you will find in reading this 
 testimony, there is a range of two hundred miles along the Rio 
 Grande where cattle are permitted to range from the far northern to 
 the far southern borders — a range of two hundred miles where they 
 are allowed to range far from their owners, protected by nothing but 
 marks, and, as I shall show before I get through by quotations from 
 Texan papers, these marks are removed and others branded upon 
 them by the Texans themselves. And these cattle, which range two 
 hundred miles away from their owners, are stolen by men and car- 
 ried across the border, as it is proved in the testimony, by men living 
 in Texas, claiming allegiance to the United States flag, claiming the 
 protection of the United States, and that the juries in Texas dare 
 not convict them. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. I should like the gentleman from Illinois to 
 tell mo where he finds aiiv such testimonv. 
 
Mr. HARRISON. I find it here in the testimony printed in this 
 book. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Then I hope the gentleman will lay it before 
 the House, so we may see it. 
 
 Listen to what John S. McCampbell swore to before this commit- 
 tee : 
 
 By the Chairman : 
 
 Question. You say that the owners of American ranches do not geneially live 
 upon their ranches ? 
 
 Answer. A great many of them have removed from their ranches. There are 
 some still living on them. Captain Kennedy and Captain King, for instance, live 
 on their ranches ; but a good many other Ameiicans have removed from their 
 ranches to Corpus Christi, and are living there. Nearly all above there are stock- 
 raisers ; and they would not keep their families out on the ranches at all, on ac- 
 count of the dangers to which they would be exposed. 
 By Mr. Williams : 
 
 Q. The farms there are principally stock farms, I suppose ? 
 
 A. They are stock farms principally. There is some little planting done about 
 San Diego ; but the country generally is a stock country, for the raising of sheep, 
 cattle, and horses. 
 
 By Mr. Hurlbut: 
 
 Q. Are the courts still held in these counties ? 
 
 A. Yes ; in the Rio Grande counties. 
 
 Q. You have stated that you were compelled to abandon your own law practice 
 there on account of what yoir believed to be a risk to your life ? 
 
 A. Yes ; that is, my practice on the Rio Grande. 
 
 Q. Has there been any obstruction to the administration of justice in that region 
 of country by the ordinary courts ? 
 
 A. I cannot answer that, because the judges go and hold court ; but, as a general 
 thing, they cannot convict. They cannot well convict a man for stealing cattle 
 there ; at least it is very hard work. 
 
 Q. Why not ? 
 
 A. You could not get a man indicted for cattle-stealing in some of the river 
 counties. 
 
 Q. Why not? 
 
 A. The Mexican jurors are afraid of their lives. If they would bring a bill of 
 indictment against a cow-thief, or a raider from the other side of the river, those 
 raiders would kill them. 
 
 Q. Then I understand you that there is such a reign of terror there that men do 
 not venture to appear before a giand jury, and that a grand jury does not venture 
 to indict for fear of consequences that might follow to witnesses and jurors ? 
 
 A. Yes ; I make that statement in reference to these counties, especially Starr, 
 Zapata, and Hidalgo. 
 
 Q. Does there exist in these counties any military organization under the laws 
 of the State of Texas ? 
 
 A. None, that I know of. 
 
 Q. Is there, in your judgment, sufficient force there in the form of military organ- 
 izations, or posse comitatus, if ordered out by the sheritf, to repel that class of raid- 
 ers whom you have spoken of ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; I do not think it possible to keep them repelled. It might be possi- 
 ble for the sheriff to get enough men together to whip one of those parties ; but 
 the Mexican citizens who live out there are very reluctant to go in pursuit of raid- 
 ers, because, if they fail to catch and capture them and if their efforts are known, 
 their ranches will bo no more, and themselves, too. They have to act very cau- 
 tiously. I mean the Mexican citizens who live there. 
 
 Q. Then I understand you to state substantially that the civil authority, a« it 
 exists there, is, in yoiu' judgment, powerless either to prevent or punish those 
 raids ? 
 
 A. I think it is powerless to prevent those ro ids; and it is powerless to punish 
 them because the raiders cannot be caught under present organization. 
 
 Here are men on this side aiding in or directly stealing cattle, and 
 the Texan authorities do not or cannot punish. And therefore we 
 are asked to pass this resolution directing our sokliers to violate the 
 territory of a sister-republic with whom we have sacred treaties. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. They are all living on the other side. There 
 are none on this side. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I will get it on this side. 
 
10 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Excuse rae. You have made a mistake. They 
 are living on the other side, but are known ou this side, because there 
 is only a mile or two between. 
 
 Mr.'HARRISOX. I will give the facts as I get to them. I will com- 
 mence reading at the beginning. It will not be methodical, but it 
 will show my points. John S. McCampbell is asked, *' If you could 
 not get a man indicted for stealing in some of the river counties " — the 
 river counties of Texas on the Rio Grande— ''and why not?" He 
 says: "Why, the Mexican jurors on this side, that is, men sx:)eaking 
 Spanish, and claiming to be our people, are afraid of their lives. If 
 they would bring in a bill of indictment against a cow-thief or a 
 raider, these raiders would kill them." 
 
 Mr. REAGAN. Will the gentleman allow me a moment I 
 
 Mr. HARRI80N. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. REAGAX. Does the gentleman not know that the witness is 
 speaking of the terror produced in the minds of Mexicans on this side 
 of the river by those raiders ? It is the terror of those raiders that 
 prevents them from indicting them. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I know that ; but I contend if you cannot pun- 
 ish a thief caught on this side by your own courts, then do not 
 ask the United States to violate the territory of a sister jepublic and 
 follow the raiders into that territory. Protect your own territory ; 
 protect it by your laws, by your jurors, if jiossible ; if necessary by 
 your soldiery ; but do not practice upon the weakness of a sister re- 
 public. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Will the gentleman allow me one moment? 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. The gentleman says we should protect our 
 own territory. Now he will find in the evidence of General Ord that 
 General Ord says he has never had force enough to hold the open 
 country against those raiders ; that they held the country against 
 even the military force of the United States. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I do not argue one word against the first portion 
 of this resolution. It is the last portion that I object to. Let us see 
 what Captain McNally says further. In si>eaking of this side of the 
 Rio Grande, he says : 
 
 The country is filled with number.^ of armed Mexicans. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Excuse me. That is on the other side of the 
 Rio Grande. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. It is on this side of the Rio Grande. And is that 
 Mexico ? 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. He does not say so. Read the couunencement 
 of the sentence you have referred to, and you will find that it is on 
 the other side. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I will read the whole sentence. 
 
 The country is filled with number.s of armed Mexicans ; and it is a m6.st common 
 sight to "see four or five or six men, well armed and mounted, whose business no one 
 knows. If j;ou ask them who they are, they will say, " We belong to a ranch fifteen 
 or tsyenty miles distant," or, " We are traflincr stock," or, " We hare been visiting 
 BrownsviUe or Matamoras," or, "We belong on the other side of the river," or, 
 "We are going to our employer's ranch in the interior," or they may claim to belong 
 to some neighboring ranch. We know nothing of them, and if we take them to the 
 ranch to which they say they belong the servants of the ranch generally without 
 hesitation verify their statement, in many instances from friendship, most fre- 
 quently from fear. The Mexican owners of ranches on this side of the river, those 
 who are citizens of Texa-s, are almost to a man as much opposed to this system of 
 raiding as the American citizens of Texas are. Many of them have not nerve 
 enough to take an active, decided stand against it, either by giving informatiou or 
 by personal assistance. 
 
li 
 
 Aud the witness is speaking of Ills endeavors to protect cattle ou 
 this side of the Rio Grande. 
 
 Why do not you kill them? Why do not you arrest them, take them 
 and put them in jail, hang them ; " shoot them on the spot !" But 
 do not send our soldiery over to the other side to arrest them, and 
 in doing so violate our treaty with a sister republic. She is weak 
 and perhaps revolutionary, and would be an easy prey to us. They 
 maraud upon us aud steal cattle, and we are asked to pass a resolu- 
 tion here which will direct onr soldiers to maraud upon them. But 
 with Christian charity we bid them do no unnecessary act to peaceable 
 inhabitants of Mexico ! O, considerate committee ! O, kindly reso- 
 lution ! Sir, never will I consent to so dishonor my proud country 
 as to vote for this gentle resolution. " Get rich my son ; honestly if 
 you ca»— but qet rich." 
 
 Mr. REAGAN. Will my friend allow me to interrupt him again? 
 Mr. McNally in that testimony is explaining the very difficulty to 
 which General Ord has referred, the difficulty of identifying these 
 Mexicans among the Mexicans that live on this side of the river, and 
 showing the subterfuges to which the raiders and murderers and 
 cattle-thieves resort to prevent detection. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I admit all the gentleman says. I admit there 
 are outrages ; but I claim the American Government should protect 
 our citizens against these outrages, but not by violating other terri- 
 tory. Let us have courts, and if jurors on this side, sworn to do their 
 duty, wall not convict cattle-thieves, do not let us blame the Mexi- 
 cans and follow the thieves over there. Let us inflict no more hard- 
 ship on peaceable Mexicans than the circumstances would demand. 
 Captain McNally or Mr. McCami^bell (I will not stop to see which) 
 says : 
 
 A large proportion of the Mexican population on this side of the river have their 
 homes on the other side. They live over here, and are employed on this side, but 
 they claim no citizenship here, and they are in active, direct sympathy with the 
 raiders. They are their kinsfolk, their cousins, uncles, aud brothers— for it seems 
 to me as if all the Mexicans on both sides of the river are relatives. 
 
 Now, sir, these men live over here ; and a little further on I will 
 show that some of them are citizens. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Does Captain McNally not say that they are 
 in active sympathy with the raiders ? Consequently they are not 
 the raiders. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. I admit it ; but I claim that you should punish 
 them by law on this side, and not follow them to the other side. I 
 claim that you shall not permit the violation of the territory of a 
 country with which we are at peace, because marauders, one-half of 
 them living on our side, claiming when they are attacked to be Amer- 
 ican citizens, are stealing our cattle, and we cannot by Texan jurors 
 convict them. 
 
 Now, sir, another question was put to Captain McNally. 
 
 Q. To your knowledge, is there any raiding from this side on the other side ? 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Read on. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. There is a mark in the report here, but that is 
 not what I intended to read. He says he does not know of any. 
 
 Mr. SCHLEICHER. Read what he says about it. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. He says : 
 
 I made inquiries about that when I went down and during the time I have been 
 there, for the last ten or eleven months. I have not even heard of a single charge 
 made by any Mexican either on this side or the other side of the river of any Texan 
 crossing tlie river for such a purpose. 
 
 I never charged that. I do not believe it ; I would not believe it ; 
 
12 
 
 I do not want to believe it. I read farther from Captain McNally's 
 evidence. We are asked to pass a resolution, to direct the soldiers to 
 follow cattle-thieves into Mexico, to violate Mexican territory, and 
 we are told it will not brino- on war. McNally says — I think I am 
 reading from McNally's testimony ; but it is at least from one of the 
 witnesses here in the report — page 11 : 
 
 I have no idea that any number of Americans, unless, possibly, four or five or six 
 hundred strong, could cross the river and succeed in getting; back. If they did, they 
 would have to move very rapidl3^ 
 
 By Mr. Lamar : 
 
 Question. Do you mean to say that, on the Mexican side of the river, they could 
 bring together a force which would overpower live hundred armed men ? 
 
 Answer. Yes ; at any time within twenty-four hours. If five hundred of the 
 best troops we can get were to cross the river, go four miles into the interior, and 
 remain twenty-four hours in one place, I have not the remotest idea that they 
 would ever return. I speak as a soldier. I served four years in the confederate 
 army. I have met some of these Mexicans out there, and they are men who stand 
 killing splendidly. They have an organization on the other side called the "rural 
 police." The chief man is the owner of a ranch, or the superintendent, as the case 
 may be. He is not an alcalde. I believe they call them encargados. He is a civil 
 ofticer, and has some of the functions of a civil officer. He sends an alarm to one 
 ranch, and it is spread from ranch to ranch in every direction. Men carry the news 
 very rapidly— at least fifteen miles an hour. The men are all mounted, and very 
 well ai-med. These fiontiermen are armed with Winchester rifles and carbines, 
 and quite a number of them with Spencer rifles. I do not know where they got 
 them, but I believe they bought them (the Spencer rifles) at Fort Brown, at some 
 Government sale. They gather rapidly, and are verj^ patriotic. 
 
 And yet we are asked to order our soldiers across the river to recover 
 cattle whose owners live two hundred miles away, who have turned 
 their cattle loose w^ith only a small brand upon them. Our soldiers 
 are to be ordered to follow these cattle where only four or live hun- 
 dred men can go with safety, and we are told it will not bring war 
 upon us. Your Army is to be ordered in companies to follow these 
 marauders where Captain McNally says that in twenty-four hours 
 they could raise enough men to overpower five hundred of oiu' soldiers ; 
 and yet it is said that would not bring on war. In one place McNally 
 says that it will not have any effect, and in another place he says that 
 they will be overpowered if we send five hundred men. Suppose you 
 send your soldiers over there and have them murdered as Custer and 
 his command were murdered by Sitting Bull and his men, then war 
 with Mexico will be the watchword and " On to Mexico !" will be the 
 cry, at least until after the election is over. 
 
 Sir, let McNally be heard again as to the Texan laws : 
 By Mr. HufiLBUT : 
 
 Q. State whether there is sufficient power under the laws of Texas to stop and 
 inve.sti^ate the character of suspected persons in that belt of country. 
 
 A. No, sir ; there is not. 
 
 Q. Can you, bearing a commission as you did from the governor of Texas, law- 
 fully stop and detain any peison on the high-road whom you suspect to be in this 
 business ? 
 
 A. I cannot. 
 
 Q. State whether in your judgment it would not be necessary for the thorough 
 protection of that frontier to give the extraordinary powers that belong to military 
 officers in a district under martial law. 
 
 A. I think that we could find a better remedy than the declaration of martial 
 law in that district. Maitial law would certainly work a great many hardships to 
 innocent persons, as it always does. Our civil code practice has very many objec- 
 tions and difficulties. These people who raid on Texas are not claimed by Mexi- 
 cans as citizens of that country. They say that they are outlaws and murderers, 
 and that as far as they are able they stop tlieir crossing, and they want us to assist 
 them in doing so. They desire that we shall render them aU the assistance in our 
 power to break that system up. I believe that if orders were issued to our mili- 
 tai-y authorities to pursue these bands to the other bank of the river, and punish 
 them so severely that the pay they got for crossing a herd of cattle would not 
 compensate them for the risk they run in making the raid, it wouhl be the most 
 
13 
 
 effectual aud rapid way of bieakiuu this thing up. without aubjecting any innocent 
 parties to harm. In carrying out that policj- tliere is no probability that one inno- 
 cent man would suffer. 
 
 Ah, yes ! we liave peaceable people on the other side of the Rio 
 Grande wanting ns to lielp them to break np this system. And you 
 are told you must send your soldiers over there and do more violence 
 to these peaceable citizens. These Mexicans want to be at peace, 
 and we are told that because this Government has not an arm strong 
 enough to keep our own thieves from stealing our property and es- 
 caping to the other side, we must go over to tlie other side, using 
 no more force than is absolutely necessary. 
 
 Now here is another place : 
 
 Question. And you think that if the Mexican government were to allow United 
 States forces to penetrate that territory, the people of Tamaulipas would not revolt ? 
 
 Answer. I do not think the government of Mexico would pay any attention to 
 it. I do not think the government would ever know it, officially, at the city of Mexico. 
 
 Here we are told to send them there, and that the Mexican govern- 
 ment can know nothing about it, and that when they come back again 
 the government at the city of Mexico will have no knowledge of their 
 proceedings. 
 
 Here is another question : 
 
 Q. I suppose that you are aware that sending a body of troops under the flag of 
 the United States into a country with which we are at peace is a declaration of war ? 
 
 A. I hardly think so. I do liot know of any writer on international law who does 
 not agree to the principle that where a nation is unable or unwilling to restrain its 
 turbulent people from depredating on a neighboring territory, the nation so depre- 
 dated upon lias the right to pursue these robbers into their fastnesses across the 
 line, and there to punish them for their offenses. 
 
 "A Daniel come to judgment," "yea a very Daniel!" American 
 citizens, or those claiming to be citizens, steal Texan cattle and es- 
 cape over the border, and he knows of no international law that 
 will prevent our following them and catching them on the other side. 
 I do not believe that the people of the United States would stand 
 quietly for fifteen minutes— ah, I will put it at that short space of 
 time— when the telegraph should bring over the wires the news that 
 a body of red-coated Englishmen had followed escaping criminals 
 over into New York or Vermont. The whole nation would tire up, and 
 the minute-men would leave their plows and hurry to the frontier; but 
 here is a weak, a miserable republic that cannot take care of herself, 
 and we are to send our soldiery over her borders. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, I say let us go to Mexico and demand of the govern- 
 ment of that republic that if it cannot protect us from these wrongs 
 we will take the matter into our own hands ; but we should not pass 
 a resolution here as an insult to her, and which she would be forced, 
 in her pride, to consider a declaration of war. 
 
 I quote now from the testimony of General William Steele : 
 
 The inhabitants along the lines of the river are mostly Mexican-speaking ; 
 whether thev are mostly citizens who expect to remain there or whether they are 
 fugitives, I ^o not know ; I think the latter are the largest class. 
 
 In Hidalgo County, at the same time, I inquired of him how many Americans 
 there were. "Americans" is the general term for all English-speaking persons, 
 those from the Xorth. He told me there were ten. I asked him if there were any 
 others who spoke English. He said there were three others, making thirteen m 
 that county who spoke English. It is that large portion of floating population 
 there who have produced such a state of terror upon those who really have the in- 
 terests of the country at heart, that if they should see a drove of cattle bein^j taken 
 across the river they would be afraid to say a word. Many have been killed be- 
 cause they talked too much. 
 
 The people living on the borders speak Mexicano, and here is where 
 the thieves are harbored. And it is among these people we should 
 operate. There is the field for our labors. Make them within our 
 
14 
 
 own "borders behave tliemselves. Declare martial law if no otlier law 
 can be enforced. We had better do that to onr own citizens than to 
 allow our military men to go over the border and insult a sister re- 
 public. Captain McNally in answer to this question, '' State to the 
 committee what your means and facilities of information were about 
 these raids," says : 
 
 After beino: on the river for some weeks, I founrt that I could employ for money 
 Mexican cattle-thieves as spies ; 1 made inquiry about the character of the men 
 who composed the various bauds on the opposite bank, and I found they Avere or- 
 ganized into bands of fifteen or twenty or thirty, according to the size of the ranch 
 at which thev live. I made inquiiies "into the personal character and reputation of 
 the individuals of the band, and I selected those wliom I knew to be tricky, and 
 secured interviews with them. I made a proposition to them to sell their com- 
 panions, tendering them handsome rewards, and promising to pay them more than 
 they could make by raiding. For instance, if twenty of them crossed tlie river 
 after a herd of cattle, and got two hundred head, the share of each of them 
 would come to so many dollars. I proposed paying them $10 apiece for every one 
 of their companions whom they would locate so that I could get in sight of them 
 while on oar side and in possession of stolen cattle. Then, if they escaped me, 
 very well; I would still pay the amount, $10, for each one : that is, if they would 
 notify me that they were going to cross the river on a certain day, and if they 
 would place me at a ceitain point where I could see these men in the act of driving 
 cattle, I would give them $10 apiece for each one that I saw in that manner, 
 whether I succeeded in capturing the parties or not ; and, if it was a strong party 
 and well armed. I was to give $15 apiece, besides giving them a regular salary of 
 SCO a month. All those whom I approached readily entered into my plans, and 
 without any exception, I found them to be reliable and trustworthy. 
 
 The Mexican thieves can be hired for .f 15 apiece for each thief 
 pointed out ; and this wonderful Captain McNally found these thieves 
 trustworthy. 
 
 Mr. EEAGAN. I trust the gentleman will not pervert the testi- 
 mony in that way. He was giving $15 apiece besides giving them a 
 regular salary of .f 60 per month. 
 
 Mr. HAERLSON. That is correct. They were to have $15 apiece 
 and .f60 a month, and he says that they were trustworthy, and yet in 
 another place he says they are thieves. Why not employ them as 
 spies on this side ? Why do you send them to a sister republic be- 
 cause it is in a half-defenceless condition and almost in the state of 
 revolution ? 
 
 Sir, this is a proud and grand Government of ours. I want to see 
 it always conducted as a proud and grand Government. Let our Re- 
 public deal with a weak sister as if that sister were her own peer. 
 She is our peer in nationality ; let us deal with her as if she were our 
 peer in strength and then we shall hand our name down to the future 
 in honor. 
 
 I would inquire, Mr. Chairman, how much time I have ? 
 
 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has twenty-five minutes more. 
 
 Mr. HARRISON. General Steele says that in Hidalgo County only 
 ten or fifteen speak English. 
 
 Now, there is a county with apparently only ten or fifteen persons 
 in it who can speak the English language, and they would be afraid 
 to say a word '*if they should see a drove of cattle being taken across 
 the river." And we are asked to let these men steal cattle and drive 
 them past these men, and then to send our troops over on the other 
 side and catch them, " using no more force than is necessary." Now 
 that is not the way one nation should deal with another. If our na- 
 tion deals so with a proud nation it is war ; and if with a weak na- 
 tion, it is a dishonor to ourselves, and I am unwilling to dishonor 
 America. 
 
 Mr. Williams asks Steele : 
 
 Have you any reason to believe that the people on our side were co-operating 
 with them ? 
 
15 
 
 Answer. There are people living ou this side -who do that, but they can hardly 
 he classed as citizens. In fact, it is very hard to detiue who is a citizen there. In 
 this report of this county they are given as residents and citizens, and the residents 
 largely outnumber the citizens. Many of these residents are mixed up with smug- 
 gling on this side. The Free Eelt, where goods are admitted free of duty, affords 
 fine opportunities for smuggling all along there. 
 
 That is, the Americans, men living there under tlie ]irotection of 
 Texas and United States laws, steal cattle from our own people, and 
 we are asked to allow our troops to follow them into the teiTitory of 
 a foreign government. I say put an army there if possible, and when- 
 ever a man is seen who cannot give a proper answer as to what his 
 business is arrest him. If you want to commit an outrage do it in 
 the United States, and not on the other side of the line. If you want 
 to commit an illegal act, do it in this country. Let General Dix go 
 there and whenever he sees a man driving a herd of cattle shoot him 
 on thp spot, and do not follow him into Mexico. 
 
 I will now quote from General Ord, who, speaking of the thieves 
 on the Texan side, says : 
 
 These Tagabonds on the northern side of the river are freqiiently in collusion 
 with the robber-bands from Mexico, and for that reason the Mexican government 
 states that those raids are not committed by Mexicans, but are committed by Amer- 
 icans, because some of these same fellows may have probably been naturalized, or 
 had obtained some right under the Texas laws, which are very liberal, to remain 
 there, and to have thebenefit of citizenship ; but they are nevertheless Mexicans. 
 
 Question. Tou do not apply that to the entire Mexican population on our side ? 
 
 Answer. Not at all ; only to the roving class, who have no permanent home. The 
 best class of Mexicans are just as anxious as the American stock-raisers are to put 
 a stop to these raids, and quite a company of them co-operated very actively in the 
 recovery of the cattle by Captain McNally and Captaiu Kandlett, when they crossed 
 the river recently. 
 
 Q. Have you ever been on the opposite side of the river? 
 
 A. I have been. 
 
 This report here denies there are any such on our other side of the 
 river. This report says the reason they say so is that these robber- 
 bands come fro)n the other side to help them. 
 
 Here is what Lieutenant Beacom tells about his horses being stolen, 
 and he went quietly over into Mexico : 
 
 Early the next morning, accompanied by two soldiers and two Mexicans, I again 
 crossed the river, and by circuitous routes followed the trail as far as the town of 
 Guerrero, Mexico, accompanied by one Mexican, having left the other with the two 
 soldiers on this side. I entered the town, obtained the assistance of the officials of 
 Guerrero, and in two hours the tliieves had been captured and horses with their 
 trimmings in my possession. 
 
 It is very curious that our soldiers can go over there and recover 
 their horses, but we cannot catch these fellows who steal cattle which 
 have wandered away two hundred miles from the owners. We are 
 asked to give authority to follow them with our soldiers and violate 
 the territory of our sister republic. I am with you, gentlemen, in 
 putting in the hands of the President soldiers and power enough to 
 protect you, but let the soldiers remain on this side the line. I have 
 friends in Texas, and some of them not far from this border. I would 
 like to have them protected, but I will never by vote consent that 
 this House shall vote power to the President of the United States to 
 order the soldiery of the United States across the border of a govern- 
 ment with which we are at peace to arrest these thieves, ''using no 
 more force than is necessary." That ^is a pretty phrase, " necessary 
 violence ; " but the officer is to judge of that. 
 
 Now here is W' hat Colonel Edward Hatch says, speaking of men who 
 he w^as certain were cattle-raiders on this side the Rio Grande : 
 
 They are represented as citizens of Texas, and .should the military make any ar- 
 rests, they will be so considered until we can catch them in a body armed. 
 
16 
 
 Speaking of certain ranches, lie says : 
 
 The people of the ranches are Mexicans, and few have declared their intention 
 of becoming American citizens. In this precinct there are nearly one thousand 
 families, with eleven registered voters, five of whom are entitled to vote. 
 
 That is, they are considered Texans, and until we can catch them 
 in a body armed we are utterly powerless to make arrests. Texas 
 laws protect these marauders, and our soldiery dare not protect them 
 unless we see them in armed bauds. And yet we are asked here to 
 allow our soldiers to cross over the border. Now, 1 would do to Mexico 
 as I would do to a nation that had behind it battalion after battalion to 
 protect her borders. Then you would do as an honorable and high- 
 toned nation should do. 
 
 Now here are some extracts fi'om Texan papers which I take from 
 the report of the Mexican commission : 
 
 Many stock-raisers of Eefugio County ha v(^ been in our city for several day.s ex- 
 amining hides by virtue of injunctions, of which thoy bring their pockets full. 
 They seem to be exasperated from having found the remains of animals killed ou 
 the pasture, evidently for the purpose of taking liides. — Goliad Guard. 
 
 A commission of property -owners have anived in our city (San Antonio) in search 
 of stolen hides taken from "dead animals. We have been advised that a large num- 
 ber of troublesome lawsuits have been instituted against several of our merchants 
 to whom hides have been consigned for s'Ale.—San Antonio Weekly Herald, March 
 8, 1873. 
 
 An organized band of cattle-thieves, under the leadership of the notorious thief 
 Alberto Garza, are scouring JSTueces and Duval Counties ; said band numbering 
 from twenty to thirtv men. 
 
 The last number of the Gaceta, of Corpus Christi, gives an interesting account 
 of the operations of these banditti, who killed and flayed in one place two hundred 
 and seventy-five heads, in another three hundred, and in another sixty-six. — Daily 
 Ranchero, Brownsville, March 1, 187.3. 
 
 Another newspaper, referring to this same band and to the ineffectual persecu- 
 tion of it, says : 
 
 We believe tUat the cattle-owners of the Xueces and Eio Grande ought to do 
 something better than to run after these robbers. The^ must direct their atten- 
 tion to the buyers of hides. A little discipline exercised against these supportei-s 
 of thieves will soon put a stop to the trouble. If there were no buyers the thieves 
 would soon take another course. The merchant who buys from the thieves is worse 
 than the thieves themselves. He is only one, but he turns twenty into scoundrels, 
 trusting in his position to save himself from reproach and censure. — The Sentinel, 
 May 2, 1873. 
 
 This ranch carries on another speculation, wliich consists in branding all the 
 young cattle that can be found, regardless of their owners. * * * It is said that 
 some men of the Nueces County not far from here came and collected all the 
 calves they could find and branded them for the benefit of those whom they serve. 
 If this business continues nothing will be left to our stock-raisers but their corrals 
 and wells. — The Sentinel, Brownsville, February 11, 1873. 
 
 There are many persons on this side (Texas) who maintain themselves by cat- 
 tle-stealing. The peculiar character of our Mexican population, combined with 
 the advantages of a very scattered population and the dense thickets, makes this 
 cattle-stealing a very profitable business. Where there is fire there is smoke. 
 This old proverb occurs to us when we hear it. said " such or such a person has made 
 his living by cattle-stealing." We know they cannot be reached by our tddbuoaU. 
 They have many able fiienda. ' * * The public opinion certainly accuses many 
 among us of being implicated in cattle-stealing.— Z)ai72/ Ranchtro, Brownsville, 
 February 10, 1872. 
 
 Here is quotation after quotation showing that cattle are being 
 stolen and branded and killed in Texas whenever they are caught 
 away from their own localities, and we are a«ked therefore to pass a 
 resolution that would dishonor the good name of our country. It 
 may be very fine for gentlemen to forget their own country's honor 
 in their hatred for Mexico ; but the time will come when they will 
 thank the Congress of the United States for refusing to pas8 this 
 second resolution. I will vote for the first, but I will never vote for 
 the second, nor do I think this House ought to do it. 
 
i-^ -r^h^ 
 
 014 648 398 7 
 
 .-^"V 
 
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