REPORT O"^ General Society \i-i.o /'\t DORS 1897, ^^^■^ Glass JEI_ar^^_ •4- Book ,/{34- |®i> PRESENTED HY :i^A ^fj^-;f-.- nce made and seconded is in tiie possession of the body, and cannot be withdrawn without the vote of that body. The Chair : Then the question is on the previous question. Shall the previous question be called ? The previous question is that this matter shall come up for the decision of the house, and there can be no debate or amendment. The roll call on Dr. Ehodes' motion for the previous question resulted as follows : Carroll, G. P No. Screven, 2 G. V. P — Montgomery, G. S No. Cadwalader, G. T No. Whipple, G.C — Alabama — Colorado Yes. District of Columbia... Yes. Georgia No. Indiana No. Kentucky Yes. Massachusetts No. Minnesota Yes. Montana Yes. New Jersey No. North Carolina — Vroom, G.V. P No. Harris, A. G. S No. Cadle, A. G. T Yes. Abbot, G. R No. Hunt, G. H Yes. California No. Connecticut — Florida — Illinois Yes. Iowa Yes. Maryland No. Michigan Yes. Missouri Yes. New Hampshire Yes. New York No. North Dakota — 77 Ohio Yes. Pennsylvania No. Rhode Island — South Carolina — Tennessee No. Texas Yes. Virginia No. West Virginia Yes. Washington.. , — Mr. Harris : Mr. Chairman, there were fifteen affirmative votes and sixteen negative votes. The Chair : The motion for the previous question therefore is lost. The question now is upon the amendment. Mr. Lewis (New York): Cordially thanking the Society for the refusal to apply gag law in this matter, I beg to move that Article IX of the proposed constitution be cancelled. Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota) : Wouldn't it meet the gentleman's wishes if the IXth Article be amended so it shall read " This con- stitution shall take effect when ratified by a majority of the States of each national society. So if we cannot get a majority of the State societies for this purpose, we do not want to adopt it, or limit it to a majority of the State societies of the Sons of the Revolu- tion, so far as the action of the Sons of the Revolution is concerned in the matter. " This constitution shall take effect when ratified by a majority of the State societies of the Sons of the Revolution." I make that motion, Mr. President. Mr. Lewis (New York) : I beg to point out that that motion is objectionable solely because we have no right to pass it. It is not for us here to define a new method by which the constitutions of our societies shall be amended or done away with. We are not here for that purpose. What we are proposing now, the majority of this convention are proposing to the State organizations, is to enter into a new organization. The proper form, therefore, is one which will leave it with each State organization to act for itself, and then if we adopt it, to recommend this constitution to the States. Then it will take effect when the States shall adopt it in each State at the time that they adopt it, but it will not take effect in any State that does not adopt it, because it happens that a majority of the States have already adopted it. It is simply a legal point I raise, 78 and that is an unquestioned point in constitutional law. There- fore it is ]u-efcrable that the article be stricken out or that it shall simply declare that it shall take effect in each State when adopted by that State. Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota): I have gone very far in the spirit of concession. 1 had hoped that this action Avoukl open our way to united and general consent. It is customary when there is no provision made for the amendment of a constitution to amend it by general action, certify it to the different chapters, and it shall specify that the constitutional change shall take effect when a majority of the constituent bodies represented therein have assented to its action, and that is the resolution I offer now. It is certainly clear if we can not get a majority of the Societies it is not adopted. If we do get a majority of the States \t should be adopted. I make this motion with the hope that there will be no dis- cussion upon it. Judge Harden (Georgia) : Allow me to say one word. My learned friend seems to be so enthusiastic in his desire to reach a particular end that he actually, as it seems to me, does not con- sider the means, even though they may involve a question of right or wrong. He speaks of technical points. Among the technical points he mentions was whether we iiad the constitutional power, or whether we had the power in law under this present constitu- tion, which is similar in its inception to that by which the United States is now governed, and which all patriotic men must admire not only in its present condition, but in its incipiency. The thirteen States called their convention and they sent delegates to that convention for the purpose of establishing a constitution for the government of the thirteen States represented by their dele- gates. They met, and they promulgated a constitution, and said this constitution shall take effect when ratified by nine of the thirteen, but only so far as concerns those who ratify it. They recognized a principle that is as eternal as God himself, that no State has got the right to regulate another. The thirteen States could, by a majority vote, adopt a constitution which would affect that majority, but they could not touch the others until they ratified it themselves. 79 Now then, have we, because, we desire to have a union, which might be a blessing or which might be a curse, and I think honestly now the latter, shall we arrogate to ourselves constitutional powers greater than the constitutional convention of 1786, and undertake to say that if Georgia and a lot of other States choose to adopt this constitution that South Carolina and North Carolina must follow suit. That is the reason I object to it. I do not think it is a technicality. I do not think it is a frivolity. I do not think these propositions can be controverted. The Chair : The question is upon the motion to strike out the whole of Article Ninth. The roll call resulted as follows : Lewis' Motion to Strike Out Article IX. Carroll, G.P Yes. Screven, 2 G. V. P — Harris, A. G. S ....Yes. Cadle, A. G. T No. Abbot, G. R Yes. Alabama — Colorado No. District of Columbia No. Georgia Yes. Indiana No. Kent ucky No. Massach usetts Yes. Minnesota No. Montana No. New Jersey Yes. North Carolina — Ohio No. Rhode Island — Tennessee Yes. Virginia Yes. Washington — Vroom, G. V. P Yes. Montgomery, G. S Yes. Cadwalader, G. T Yes. Whipple, G. C — Hunt, G. H No. California Yes. Connecticut — Florida....! — lUinois No. Iowa No. Maryland Yes. Michigan No. Missouri No. New Hampshire No. New York Yes. North Dakota — Pen nsylvania Yes. South Carolina — Texas No. West Virginia No. 80 The Chair : Gentlemen, the report of the Secretary upon this vote is fifteen in the affirmative and sixteen in the negative. The motion therefore, is lost. Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota) : I now move to amend Article IX by striking out the last four words, so that it shall read : " This constitution shall take effect when ratified by a majority of the States of each national society." Striking out " voting in joint meeting." I understand, Mr. President, that resolution is distinctly in line with what the Sons of the American Revolution have done, that they are expecting to send this back to their State societies. Mr. Wood (Ohio): They have adopted it positively. Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota): "When ratified by a majority of the State Societies of each National Society." Strike out the last four words of Article IX. " Article IX : This constitution shall take effect when ratified by a majority of the States of each National Society." Mr. Abbot (Massachusetts): Mr. Chairman, may I make an amendment to the amendment? I move to amend that motion by adding the words : " Only for the State so ratifying." The Chair : He is proposing an amendment to the Article himself. The question is upon the motion submitted by the gen- tleman from Minnesota, that the four last words of this IXth Article be left out. The article will then read : " This constitu- tion shall take effect when ratified by a majority of the State Societies of each National Society." Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota) : After the word " State " put in the word " Society." Mr. Jones (Pennsylvania) : I feel that we are not authorized to commit the Pennsylvania Society upon that motion, and therefore we will have to decline to vote. Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota) : The resolution was offered upon the suggestion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, and I thought would probably meet their objections. 81 The call of the roll resulted as follows Ehodes' Amendment Striking Out Last Four Words OF Article Nine, Etc. Carroll, G. P No. Screven, 2 G. V. P — Harris, A. G. S D. Cadle, A. G. T Yes. Abbot, G. R No. Alabama — Colorado Yes. District of Columbia... Yes. Georgia No. Indiana Yes. Kentucky Yes. Massach usetts Yes. Minnesota Yes. Montana Yes. New Jersey D. North Carolina — Ohio Yes. Rhode Island — Tennessee D. Virginia D. Washington — \_Note. — " D." signifies Declined to Yroom, G. V. P D. Montgomery, G. S No. Cadwalader, G. T D. Whipple, G. C — Hunt, G. H Yes. California No. Connecticut — Florida — Illinois Yes. Iowa Yes. Maryland T>. Michigan Yes. Missouri Yes. New Hampshire Yes. New York Yes. North Dakota — Pennsylvania D. South Carolina — Texas Yes. West Virginia Yes. vote.] During the call of the roll the following officers and delegates, as their names or States were called, said : Mr. Vroom (General Vice-President) : Mr. President, I must decline to vote, on the ground that I maintain that it would be unconstitutional. That a majority of the States have no more right to amend the constitution than this body sitting here to-day have a right to amend this constitution. As a member of the General Society I cannot vote for ^7hat I consider illegal. 82 Mr. Stevens (New Jersey) : The delegates from New Jersey decline to vote on the ground that they have no authority to bind their Society by such action. Mr. Lewis (New York) : New York votes aye in the belief that the amendment is an improvement by doing away with the most offensive violation of the constitution. It is here to reserve for the decision of the State itself the question of the binding effect upon the State Society. Mr. Jones (Pennsylvania): Pennsylvania declines to vote, on the ground that it has no authority to bind its State Society. The Chair : On this question tlie decision of the Assembly is ayes 18, noes 5, decline to vote 8, therefore the motion of the gentleman from Minnesota is adopted. Mr. Wood (Ohio) : Mr. Chairman, I now move the adoption of the plan and constitution as reported by the Committee. Motion seconded. Mr. Wood (Ohio) : And I then desire to move afterwards that a Committee be appointed to notify the Sous of the American Revolution of the action of this body. My motion is first the adoption of the constitution as amended by this body. The call of the roll on the adoption of the plan of union and constitution proposed in the report of the majority of the Con- ference Committee as amended showed the following result : Wood's Motion for Adoption op Constitution AS Amended. Carroll, G. P No. Vroom, G. V. P No. Screven, 2 G. V. P — Montgomery, G. S No. Harris, A. G. S No. Cadwalader, G. T No. Cadle, A. G. T Yes. Whipple, G. C — Abbot, G. R No. Hunt, G. H Yes. 83 Alabama — Colorado Yes. District of Columbia... Yes. Georgia No. Indiana Yes. Kentucky Yes. Massachusetts Tie. Minnesota Yes. Montana Yes. New Jersey No. North Carolina — Ohio Yes. Rliode Island — Tennessee D. Virginia D. Washington — [^Nole. — " D." signifies Declined to vote.] California No. Connecticut — Florida — Illinois Yes. Iowa Yes. Maryland Tie. Michigan Yes. Missouri Yes. New Hampshire Yes. New York No. North Dakota — Pennsylvania D. South Carolina — Texas Yes. West Virginia Yes. Mr. Wilson : The Maryland delegation being divided, part of it declining to vote, and the other part desiring to vote " no," announce a tie. Mr. Abbot : Massachusetts announces a tie, part of the dele- gation desiring to vote " aye " and part " no." The Chair : The vote as recorded here for this proposition is sixteen ayes, ten noes, three declinations to vote, and two ties. The motion, therefore, is adopted. Mr. Cooke (Colorado) : I move you, sir, that a committee of five be appointed by the Chair to notify the Sons of the American Revolution of our action here to-day. Motion seconded. The Chair : The Chair appoints the following Committee : Dr. Rhodes (Minnesota) : Before the motion is put I would like lo amend it by providing that the President-General be the Chairman of that Committee. This motion was put by Dr. Rhodes and carried. I 84 The Chair: The Chair would appoint as a Comtuittee- Mr. Moulton" (Illinois) : The only motion I understand is that tlie President-General be the Chairman of that Committee, which was put by Dr. Rhodes and carried. The Chair : Now it is moved that a Committee of five be appointed by the Chair. Mr. Moulton (Illinois) : Allow me to offer a substitute for the motion in the form of an amendment. J am perfectly willing and very desirous that the President shall represent this Society if the motion is adopted, but I do believe that there are other matters that should be taken up at the time of notifying the other National Society of the action, and therefore I have drafted a resolution con- taining that idea and some other ideas. I am perfectly willing to include the President-General of the order. I offer this as a substitute for the motion of the gentlemen from Colorado and Minnesota : '^Resolved: That a Committee of five, of which the President- General shall be the Chairman, shall be appointed to communicate the action of this General Society to the National Society Sons of the American Revolution which has been taken upon the question of the union of the two Societies and upon the adoption of the new constitution ; and that said Committee be empowered to request similar action on the part of the National Society Sons of the American Revolution ; and further to agree and report upon a time and place for a joint meeting of the two Societies for the pur- pose of fully perfecting the proposed union of the two Societies, in the event that a majority of the State Societies approve of the action of their respective General Societies." Mr. Pugh (Ohio) : I would suggest that our President-General be allowed to appoint the Committee without any restriction. His position during the debate has been such that I think it would be just as well to leave that resolution as it was. It is an act of courtesy which is due him for his courtesy to us. The Chair : That entirely corresponds with the feelings of the Chair. 85 Mr. Wood (Ohio) : May I say one word in amendment ? Mr. MouLTON (Illinois) : I have not occupied the floor to-day until this time, and I wish to say now that I believe myself to be perfectly in order in oiFering this resolution as a substitute for the original motion, in the nature of an amendment, whether the original mover seconds it or not. I offer this resolution to the General Society, and ask for a vote on it. The Chair : The Chair must state to this meeting that the Chair would not be a party to making any offer of a future joint meeting, that he does not consider it within his power to act in that way ; therefore I would decline any part in that part of the programme. Mr. Moulton (Illinois) : Allow me one moment, so as to get the matter perfectly clear before the Society. I understand the desire of the President-General not to be personally upon that Committee. I therefore move the resolution as I originally made it, that a Committee of five be appointed by the Chair. Mr. Cooke (Colorado) : I made a motion to appoint a com- mittee of five, and the gentleman from Minnesota suggested that you be on it, and I accepted that amendment, and it was put to vote and carried — that a committee of five be appointed, of which the President-General was to be Chairman. The Chair : That question is before the house now. Mr. Moulton (Illinois) : I move this as a substitute for that motion : " Resolved : That a committee of five shall be appointed to com- municate the action of this General Society to the National Society Sons of the American Revolution which has been taken upon the question of the nnion of the two societies and upon the adoption of the new constitution; and that said committee be empowered to request similar action on the part of the ISTational Society Sons of the American Revolution ; and further to agree and report upon a time and place for a joint meeting of the two societies for the pur- pose of fully perfecting the proposed union of the two societies, in 7 86 the event that a majority of the State Societies approve of the action of their respective General Societies." My reason for adding this to the other resolution for the appoint- ment of a committee is this. I have known, and I presume it is well known to the majority here, that the Sons of the American Revolution did not take action similar to ours. This is in the nature of a Committee of Conference to endeavor to get them to make their action harmonious with ours and designate a time and place where the whole thing can be approved. The Chair : The question is on the amendment submitted by the gentleman from Illinois. Mr. Moulton's Amendment seconded, put to vote and carried. The Chair : The question, therefore, now recurs on the motion as amended, that the Chair appoint a coraujittee of five to com- municate to the gentlemen of the Sons of the American Revolution our action here today, and to request them to concur in our action or to take similar proceedings. Put to vote and carried. The Chair : I will appoint on the Committee, Mr. Achilles Henry Pugh, Ohio, Mr. Rukard Hurd, Minnesota, Mr. Gaillard Hunt, District of Columbia, Mr. Persifor Marsden Cooke, Colorado, and Mr. Ephraim Morgan Wood, Ohio. Mr. Wood (Ohio) : I take it that we have about concluded our deliberations and the business for which we have been assembled. I have taken a somewhat prominent and active part in the dis- cussion to-day, and I occupied a somewhat similar position in Philadelphia, and I don't think — Gentlemen may I have your attention, because I desire to make a motion which I know you all will vote for — I do not think, except for the word said by the pre- siding officer when requested to act as Chairman that any one would have known except by his vote which side he favored in the dis- cussion. I have never seen, sir — and I say it without flattery, but 87 as a simple statement of fact — a more impartial presiding officer in a heated debate than our honored President-General to-day. I desire to say for those with whom he honestly differs and has differed to-day, that they could not have asked from their own side a more courteous Chairman. It is therefore with great pleasure that I offer the resolution, " That the thanks of this Convention be tendered to President-General Carroll for the very impartial and courteous manner in which he has presided over the deliberations of this assembly." Put to the vote by Mr. Wood and carried unanimously. The Chair : Gentlemen, I take the opportunity to return my sincere thanks to you for your cordial resolution which you have just adopted. Mr. : I move you, sir, that a vote of thanks be extended to the Ohio Commandery of the Loyal Legion for the use of their quarters here to-day. Seconded, put to vote, and carried. Mr. Beale (District of Columbia) : I offer the following reso- lution : " Resolved, that the Committee for the Revision of the Rolls, appointed under the resolution adopted on April 19th, 1897, be and it is hereby continued in office, and is authorized and directed to at once proceed in conjunction with the Committee appointed for that purpose by the Sons of the American Revolution to ex- amine, in accordance with the provision of the constitution, as amended, reported by the Joint Conference Committee, the rolls of the members of the National Society of the Sons of the American Revolution and the General Society of the Sons of the Revolution, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any member in either Society is not in fact entitled to membership therein, and that upon the report of the Joint Committee thus formed all mem- bers who are not found to have been entitled to membership in their respective National Societies under their constitutions and by-laws, be held not to be entitled to membership in the Society of the American Revolution, and be stricken from its rolls, unless 88 within a reasonable time, to be fixed by said Committee, siicli members shall prove their right to such membership." Motion seconded. Mr. Stevens (New Jersey): As I understand the resolution, it is subject to the consent of the majority That says that every member now in good standing iu either one of the Societies shall be included as a member. Mr. Pugh (Ohio) : Subject to the examination of the Revision Committee. Mr. Beale (District of Columbia) : I will say the amendment to it is represented by the words '' Subject, however, to the approval of the Joint Committee on Eevision of the Membership rolls." The Chair : The Convention will be in order. The question is on the motion submitted by Mr. Beale. Mr. Beale on request read resolution again : " Resolved, That the Committee for the Revision of the Rolls, appointed under the resolution adopted on April 19th, 1897, be and is hereby continued in office, and is authorized and directed to at once proceed in conjunction with the Committee appointed for that purpose by the Sons of the American Revolution to examine, in accordance with the provision of the constitution, as amended, reported by the Joint Conference Committee, the rolls of the members of the National Society of the Sous of the American Revolution and the General Society of the Sons of the Revolution, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any member iu either Society is not in fact entitled to membership therein, and that upon the report of the Joint Committee thus formed all members who are not found to have been entitled to membership in their respec- tive National Societies "under their constitutions and by-laws, be held not to be entitled to membership in the Society of the Amer- ican Revolution, and be stricken from its rolls, unless within a reasonable time, to be fixed by said Committee, such members shall prove their right to such membership." Seconded, submitted to vote, and carried. 89 Mr. Bea.le (District of Columbia) : I now offer the following resolution : " Resolved, that each State Society of the Sons of the Revolution and the Sons of the American Revolution shall submit the papers of their respective societies to the Registrar of the other society for examination ; that after such examination shall be had, each Regis- trar shall certify to the eligibility of each member of the other society under the national constitution of the society of which he is a member. In case any doubt shall arise as to the correctness of any paper, then such doubtful paper shall be submitted to the Joint Committee on Revision of Membership Rolls. In case there is any jurisdiction in which there is only one society, such paper shall also be submitted to said Joint Committee on Revision of Membership Rolls." The idea being this, that in every jurisdiction where there are two societies, the Sons of the Revolution and the Sons of the American Revolution shall exchange their papers. The severest critic that could possibly be would be the Registrar of the oppos- ing society. Ninety-nine per cent, of our papers, so far as the Sons of the Revolution is concerned, we believe to be correct. When any question of doubt arises as to any paper, that paper is to be submitted to the Joint Committee on Revision of Member- ship Rolls, and in any jurisdiction in which there is only one society "such papers shall also be submitted to said Joint Committee on Revision of Membership Rolls," the idea being simply this, to put the papers in the hands of the jurisdiction which is familiar with the personnel of the men whose papers are to be examined, and take off of the shoulders of the Com- mittee on Membership Rolls such detail work in order to lessen their labors. Seconded, put to vote and carried. Mr. Lyon (Illinois) : I move that the minutes of this special meeting be printed at length and an official copy be sent to the General Secretary of each of the State Societies. Seconded, put to vote and carried. 90 Mr. Voorhees (Colorado) : I desire to ask the consideration of the foHowing resolution at this time, and will not make any remarks thereon : "Whereas, The Continental Congress, on the 14th day of June, 1777, passed the following: " ^Resolved: That the flag of the thirteen States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white ; that the Union be thirteen stars, white, in a blue field, rejjresenting a new constellation,' and "Whereas, one of the leading purposes for which the Society was formed, is 'to inspire the members with the patriotic spirit of their forefathers,' and " Whereas, it is the sentiment of this Society, that every effort should be made to cultivate the spirit of patriotism among the people, " Now, therefore, be it resolved, That such inspiration can best be imparted by teaching the youth of the country to respect, honor and love the flag of our Union, and, that, in furtherance of such teaching, the General Society does hereby recommend to each State Society that June 14th, ' Flag Day,' be observed by a general and public celebration under the auspices of the Society of the Sons of the Revolution." Seconded, put to vote and carried. Mr. Pugh (Ohio) : Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Con- vention, it is my pleasure to inform you that we met with the Convention of the Sons of the American Revolution, in Congress assembled and presented the report of the Committee of Conference as amended at this meeting, together with such resolutions as were passed by the Society pertaining to the carrying out of these resolutions. We were received with the utmost courtesy and attention by those gentlemen, and thank them for the same. I think if we wait that in the course of a minute or two a Committee that they will appoint will reply to our communications. Mr. Wood (Ohio) : We have informal information that all the amendments were passed at once. Mr. Cooke (Colorado): Mr. President, I desire to announce a Committee of the Sons of the American Revolution. 91 Me. Gallaudet (Sods of the American Revolution) : Mr. President-General and Gentlemen of the Society of the Sons of the Revolution, a Committee of five has been appointed to wait upon your Society and respond to the message which we have just received from you announcing your approval of the proposed constitution of the Society of the American Revolution, with certain amendments suggested to that constitution, and certain resolutions providing for the revision of rolls, providing the cases in which those rolls shall be revised, and also a resolution appoint- ing a committee by name in connection with a similar committee of the Sons of the American Revolution, to provide, in a certain contingency, for the organization of the Society of the American Revolution under the constitution, which has been under con- sideration to-day. We understand, Mr. President, that the action which has been taken in this Society will work in this way — I speak of it that there may be no misunderstanding — that when the constitu- tion, which has now been agreed to by both Societies, your amendments having been adopted without change by the Society of the Sons of the American Revolution, that when this constitu- tion shall have been approved by a majority of the State Societies of each of the two organizations, the General and National organ- izations, that the adoption of that constitution and the creation of a new society will have been effected. That after that conclusion shall have been reached, when it is reached, by the votes of a majority of the State Societies and of each Society, that then it will be the duty of the Committee which you have appointed, which reported to us a short time ago, and our Committee which is now here, which we have appointed to meet your Committee, to arrange for the time and place of the meeting under the constitution of the Society of the American Revolution for the organization of that Society. That is to say, the organization of that Society as the united Society of our two Societies. I would like to ask if I have made any mistake so far. I ask the ofiicers of the Sons of the Revolution. The Chair : That is as I understand it. Mr. Gallaudet (Sons of the American Revolution) : Then I have the great pleasure of informing you, gentlemen of the Sons 92 of the Revolution, that our Society did adopt, without question, and with an overwhelming vote, the action which you sent up to us by your Committee, and, as I understand it, we stand, tentatively at least, united ; and my hope is that united we may continue to stand, for my belief has long been that men organized as we are, with our two great Societies divided, must, ultimately at least, deserve to fall. (The Committee from the Society of Sons of the American Revolution retires.) Mr. Sayres (Pennsylvania) : I move that the thanks of this Society be tendered to the Ohio Society of the Sons of the Revo- lution. Seconded, put to vote and carried. On motion duly seconded the meeting adjourned. f :r^-> ■•■I ■ 'm w^ ■-m