.^:^ Digitized by the Internet Archive in 2010 with funding from The Library of Congress http://www.archive.org/details/debatetoinvestigOOIodg 23 ^^M/. ^^ ' ^C^ fy E 480 .L82 Copy "1 DEBATE ON RESOLUTION TO INVESTIGATE THE PAYMENT OF MONEY APPROPRIATED BY BILL FOR RELIEF OF THE BOOK AGENTS OF THE METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH SOUTH. REMARKS "^.^ Senators LODUE, BATE, PASCO, CLAY, BACON, LINDSAY, HOAR, CHANDLEli, TILLMAN, TELLER, BERRY, MORCUN, /VlSri3 OTITEIJS, IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES, June 9, 10, 13, and 14, 1893. WASEEIlSrGXON', 181)8. Ea-so G8450 CLAIM OF METHODIST BOOK CONOEEN SOUTH. Thursdaij, Jane 9, ISOS. jSIv. lodge. I offer the resolntioi) which I send to the desk. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The resolution will be read. Tlie Secretary read as follows: Rrsolvcd, That the Committeo on Claims be directed to inqna-e aud report to whom the money was paid under the chiim of the Methodist Bock Concern Soiith; and also as to all circumstances connected with the passage of the bill providing for the payment of said claim, and with the subsequent payment of the money under said act of Congress. Mr. LODGE. Mr. President, at the time that that claim was before the Senate I offered an amendment providing that not more than $5,000 should be paid out of it to any agent or at- torney. The very idea of the amendment which I offered was received with a great deal of indignation by Senators, and it was intimated that it was placing an" affront on honorable men. It was stated that all the work connected with the passage of that claim was a labor of love, and that the money to be derived from it was to be devoted exclusively to benevolent and charitable objects. I naturally felt at the time, Mr. President, as I have no doubt did also the Senator from Maine and the Senator from Connecti- cut, who took the same view that I did, that we were put in a position of casting an unmerited reflection upon disinterested persons. It has now come to my knowledge that there was a con- tract at the time the bill passed to pay an agent 35 per cent and that the agent who was engaged in getting that legislation has received the enormous sum of $100,800 for his services. I think, Mr. President, that in view of the manner in which Senators were misled on that subject, this matter deserves in- quiry at the hands of Congress. A telegram was read here by the Senator from Florida [Mr. Pasco] from Barbee & Smith, which said: Letter 5th received. Tho statement is untrue, and you are hereby au- thorized to deny it. The Senator from Florida continues: I made the statement fully in the letter, which set forth that some agents hero would get a very largo percentage of the amount. I knew that it was impossible, because they had no authority to make such a bargain. I knew that they had too much discretion to make such a bargain, of course, and I .suggested to them that they should give mo tho statement which they have, and 1 am satisfied there is no foundation whatever for the report. And on the telegram which the Senator from Florida read, he was fully justified in making tho statement he did to the Senate. That telegram was from Barbee & Smith. It was in answer to a letter which asked, as I understand, if tho agents were to get a large percentage. I have here an interview with Barbee & Smith, 3147 3 published in the Memphis (Tenn.) Commercial-Appeal, which says: Concerning the payment of 3.j ]ier cent of the appropriation to Maj. E. B. Stahhnan, Dr. Barbee said: "That is no secret to anyone. The book com- mittee made the contract with Major Stahhnan, and it was indorsed in open conference. Barbee & Smith had nothins? to do with.it. Major Stahlman assumed all responsibility and expense in pushing the claim; and had it not passed, his loss would have been about 830,000 or $10,000." The newspaper paragraph goes on to say: Major Stahhnan is out in a card this afternoon in whichhe defends Messrs. Barbee & Smith, but admits that ho got the money. I have his letter here from the papers. His defense is that it was charged that the contract was for 40 per cent, tliat that was wholly untrue, and that the contract was for So per cent. Those are the facts, Mr. President. I do not propose to take the time of the Senate in reading what I have here, but I will ask that these various statements be printed. They contain a state- ment from delegates to the conference, an article from the Ziou Outlook, published at Nashville, Tenn., Mr. Stahlman's letter of explanation Mr. COUKRELL. Let them be read at the de.sk. Mr. BATE. If the Senator wants the papers to go into the Record, they should be read. Mr. LODGE. They are pretty long. Mr. BATE. We can not help that. It is a charge against the church, and it should be known what it is. Mr. LODGE. It is no charge against the church — none what- ever — but these newspaper articles make a serious charge against the age7it who put this claim through, and who, out of the $'.^88,- 000 that were to go, as we were told, to invalid and aged clergymen and to their widows and orphans, put §100,009 into his i)Ocket. That is the charge. I am sure that that great denomination will feel as much cha- grined at the circumstances of the passage of this claim as the Senate can feel. The charge relates solely to those men who de- ceived Senators, because if that contract had been known, that bill would not have passed the Senate as it did, nor would it have passed the House, either. It was only because both branches of Congress were entirely misled as to the payment to be made out of that claim that it was enabled to get through. I think, Mr. President, that for oui- own self-raspect wc ought to inquire into this thing and see if we have been misled, and if so, see who did it and how it was done. I am perfectly willing to have the extracts read. As I say, they contain an interview with Barbee & Smith, a letter of Mr, Stahl- man, a newspaper statement from the Commercial-Appeal, of Memphis, an editorial article from the Zion Outlook, published at Nashville, Tenn., and a statement by Mr. A. W. Newsom, of Memphis, in the Commercial-Appeal. If it is desired to have these papers read, 1 have no objection, but I suggest, to save time, that they be printed iu the Record in connection with my remarks. Mr. BATE. Mr. President Mr. HALE. Let me suggest to the Senator from Tennessee that this is a most important matter, involving not only the action of the Senate in the past, but it ought to be a monition to us in the future. Some of ns took part in the debate attendant upon the passage of the bill. The charges here are very clear and veiy de- UH7 cided, and we ought to Iciiow what they are by reading them. I siiggest that they all be printed in the Record, and that the reso- lution of the Senator from Massachusetts go over until to-morrow morning, in order that Senators may see just what the case is. We can" not get at it merely by hearing the papers read. But there is some responsibility resting upon the Senate for having passed this bill, having crowded it through upon the as- sumption, which was believed then to be the truth, that no lob- byists had been engaged, to use the language of this lobbyist, in pushing this matter. Therefore, I suggest again— not to take the Senator from Ten- nessee off the floor — that all these papers be printed in the Record, so that we may see them, and then that the resolution go over until to-morrow morning, because we can in that way act more understandingly. Mr. BATE. Mr. President, I have no objection to the printing of the articles in the Record which have been referred to by the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. Lodge]. I quite agree with him that there ought to be an investigation; and in the absence of any better proposition, to go to the bottom of this matter, I shall favor the resolution offered by the Senator from Massachusetts and let it go before the Committee on Claims, so that we may as- certain how this thing has been done. The VICE-PRESIDENT. If there be no objection, tlie papers presented by the Senator from Massachusetts [JVIr. Lodge] will be printed in the Record. The papers referred to are as follows: [Prom the Memphis (Tenn.) Commercial-Appeal, May 28, 1898.] STAHLMAN'S niCH pick-up— fee of over $100,000 FOR LOBBYING SEKV- ices— measuhe befopve congress— methodist episcopal publtsiiino house at nashville pays it -messrs. barbee & smith involved— senators suspect lobbying and raise the question, only to be con- fronted by deniaiis from the concern's managers that the fund was to be so dissipated— congress to be heard from. Commercial- Appeal Bureau, lSf,7 Pennsylvania avenue, Washington, D. C, May -^7, 1S98. E. B. Stalilman, of Nashville, who led the lobby forces here in advocacy of the bill recently passed to pay the Southern Methodist Church §288,000 for use and occupancy of its publishing house at Nashviile during the war, re- ceives $100,800 lor his services as lobbyist. This announcement has amazed Congress. The bill passed both Houses, notably the Senate, upon the distinct understanding that no lobbyist was to receive any appreciable part of the amount, and statements to that effect were made repeatedly by honest but, it seems, misinformed Senators. The bill would never have passed had Stahlnmn's prospective share in the proceeds been known. Hi.s contract with the church call.s for 35 per cent, and the recent general conference in Baltimore, after investigating tlie sub- ject, approved the allowance. All Southern and many Northern Senators were enrnestly advocating the bill, but they were misled throughout upon representations that the money was to go wholly to the church, and no appreciable part was to land with a lobbyist. A protracted fight upon this point was made. The presence of recognized lobbyists about the Capitol had been observed, and Senators sus- pected the church would lose a large part of the appropriation through the unreasonable avarice of men who, under the leadership of Stahlman , thronged the corridors. LODGE HAD SUSPICIONS. Senator Lodge moved an amendment to the House bill, declaring that not more than 85,000 of the money should go to any agent or agents. The auiend- ment was defeated upon the presentation of a telegram from the Methodist Publishing House authorities, denying the report that lobbyists were to re- ceive a largo part of the money. The telegram was addressed to Senator Pasco, and was apparently unreserved in its denial. Congress looks upon the recent disclo-iures as the development of a scan- dal. When the bill wa.9 up for passage in the Senate, on March H. Seiiator TiLLiMAN, of South Carolina, demanded to know of Senator Bate whotlur 3447 the attorneys were to get any of the appropriation, and in response Senator Bate said: "I will take pleasure in saying that as I heard such a rumor whispered around yesterday and to day, I got a telejrram, as also did the chairman of the subcommittee on claims, from Barbee & Smith, who are the head of tho concern, stating there was not a word of truth in the statement that tho fund was to be diverted in any such way." Following the statement Ii'om Senator Bate, Senator Pasco, of Florida, had the following to say: DEXIAL to senator PASCO. "As to the question asked by the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. Till- man], it is proper to say that I heard a rumor that was whispered about tho Senate Chamber a few days ago to the effect that some claim agent would get a very largo proportitm of the amount. On Saturday last, when I heard that report, I sat down and wrote Messrs. Barbee & Smith. I was thoroughly satis- Ded that the rei>ort had no foundation whatever in fact. But I stated the matter at length to them, and stated that I wished to have in my possession a statement from them which I could use in private, or personally on the floor of the Senate if necessary, and yesterday I got this reply to my letter: 'Let- ter 5th received. Tho statement is untrue, and you are hereby authorized to deny it.' I made the statement fully in the letter, which set forth that somo agents here would got a vei'y large percentage of the amount. I knew that it was impossible, because they had no authority to make such a bargain. I knew that they had too much discretion to make such a bargain, of course, and I suggested to them that they should give mo the statement, which they have, and I am satisfied there is no foundation wliatever for the report." Senator Morgan, of Alabama, gave similar assurance. Senator Lodge, of Massachusetts, expressed gratification at the state- ments, but insisted upon offering an amendment in these words: " Provided, That not more than $.5,000 of the sum hei-eby appropriated shall be paid to any agent or attorney, or to any other person, for securing tho payments of the claims or for any service whatever." In opposition to this proviso it was urged by Senators Berry and PASCO that its incorporation would require the bill to go back to the House, which would delay and possibly defeat its passage. Furthermore, Senator Hoar, of Massachusetts, suggested that it was '"a pretty serious affront to men of high character and standing, representing a concern of high standing, to put into a bill a proviso that they have not traded with claim agents and lobby- ists, after that assertion on their part." Mr. Lodge insisted upon his amendment, but it was defeated. UP AX the general conference. At the general conference in Baltimore, when it became known that more than S100,()(X) was Stahlmfin's share of the recovery, there was in some quarters great dissatisfaction and an investigation proceeded. It developed that Stahlmau had an ironclad contract with the Publishing House authorities, whereby he was to receive 35 per cent of the recovery. Congress is certain to be heard from upon the entire transaction, and It is possible that an investigation may be proposed, since there have been some ugly insinuations made as to the disposition of money here for tho passage of tho bill. The Senators who opposed the Lodge amendment will demand of Barbee & Smith an explanation of their telegram. Three Senators have declared to me their intention of speaking upon the matter. In the Hou.se indignation is general among the members familiar with the facts as developed at tho conference. L. P. M. defense of barbee & smith— THAT IS the only issue, as the STAHTi- MAN FEE IS ADMITTED. Nashville, May 2S, 1S93. Rev. J. D. Barbee, of Barbee & Smith, agents for the Methodist Publishing House, when asked to night to state the position of Barbee & Smithinregard to the reported trouble over tlio Southern Methodist war claim, preserved a dignified silence. He declared that Barbee & Smith were invincible in their integrity, U])rightncss, and tho consciousness of acting in the interest of honesty at all times. He did not think that these hysterical outbursts, which arc made against the Publishing House every few years, needed answering, and he would not deviate from the rule of the firm, which is to ignore all newspaper slanders at all times. Concerning the payment of ;J5 per cent of the appropriation to Maj. E. B. Stahlman, Dr. Barbee said: "That is no secret to anyone. The book com- mittee made the contract with Major Stahlman, and it was indorsed in open conference. Barbee & Smith had nothing to do with it. Major Stahlman a.ssumed all responsibility and expense in pushing the claim, and had it not passed his loss would have been about $30,000 or $10,0(X)." Major Stahlman is out in a card this afternoon, in which he defends Messrs. Barbee & Smith, but admits that he got the money. 3417 LFroin the Nashville Banner, Saturday evening, May 38, 1898.] METHODIST GUUIlCn CLAIM— A STATEMENT IN ItEGAIJD TO IT I5\' MR. E. B. STAHLMAN. To the Public: My attention has been called to an article in the American of this morning, dated Washington, May 37, headed "Methodist war claim— Talk in Wash- ington of a Congressional investigation — Trouble over fees," etc. This alleged "Washingtc^n dispatch bears the earmarks and was, in my .indgment, inspired, if not actually written, by parties in Nashville hostile especially to Barbeo & Smith. The article as published is full of misstatements libelous in character. It seeks to put Barbee & Smith in the attitude of having stated a falsehood to Senators in order to secure the payment of the claim. It says: "Senator Pasco, who had charge of the claim, read a letter from Messrs. Barbee & Smith stating that no agreement for the payment of any attorney or attorneys had been made, and that the only money expended or that would be expended had been a few dollars to lawyers for drawing the bill which was then before Congress. Telegrams to the same effect were also read." I pronounce this statement unqualifiedly false. There were no such tele- gram or letter sent by Barbee & Smith to Senator Pasco or anyone else. The facts are Senator Pasco wrote Barbee & Smith that it was rumored that they (Barbee & Smith) had made a contract to pay an attorney 40 per cent, and asking whether or not this was true. Barbee & Smith answered: "The statement is untrue, and you are hereby authorized to deny it." Now, I aver that this telegram of Barbeo & Smith represented the facts, first, because there was no contract made to pay 40 per cent, and secondly, because the only agreement with reference to the payment of fees was made by the book committee, and not by Barbeo & Smith. The attempt to make it appear that this telegram of Barbee & Smith mis- led the Senate, and that it was because of this that the bill passed, is without v^arrant. The bill vv'ould have passed if Barbeo & Smith had not answered Senator Pasco at all. The claim was pending on its merits, on favorable re- ports of committees and briefs submitted by me, and on its merits would have passed the Senate. The effort of certain Senators to embody in the bill a provision that no foe should be paid was regarded by fair-minded Senators as an uncalled-for interference— an intermeddling with the private rights of the claimants. The only question for the Senate to determine was whether or not the claim was just, and, if just, to vaj it; if unjust, to refuse to do so, and there was never a doubt in my mind but what the Senate by an overwhelming majority would agree that the claim was just and ought to be paid. More- over, there is not a Senator or Member of Congress in Washington at all familiar with legislation relating to war claims who does not know that all such claims are represented by attorneys who have an agreement for the payment of fees, aggregating iii many cases as much as TiO per cent. I have before mo to-day claims just as meritorious as the Publishing House claim, aggregating nearly $3,000,(100, upon which the claimants have agreed to pay certain attorneys 50 per cent of the amount recovered, and because these at- torneys have not been successful in prosecuting their claims these claimants are invoking my aid and proposing in some cases to pay me a fee in addition to the large sums they have already agreed to pay their attorneys. All of this hurrah respecting the proposition to return the money to the Government, etc., is mere bosh, and, in my judgment, comes from enemies of Barbee & Smith, di.sappointed office seekers, who would like to have se- cured the i^laces to which Barbee & Smith were reelected by the last general conference. A sufficient answer to all of this tirade is to say that the general confer- ence, consisting of the bishops and leading ministers and laymen of the church, had this matter under consideration during its recent session in Balti- more, and by a large majority over all opposing candidates reelected Barbee & Smith as Book Agents and increased their salaries. It is proper to say that this article is written on my own responsibility, withoitt the knowledge or consent of Barbee & Smith, and that they will be surprised when they see it in print. E. B. STAHLMAN. [From the C'ommercial Appeal, Mem]ihis, June 1, 1898.] now XnEY VIEWED IT— A DEr,EGATE TO THE OENERAT^ METHODIST COX- FERENCE TALKS— IlEV^IEW THE STAHLMAN CASE— A. AV. NEWSOM, A MEM- PniAN, STATES THE POSITION OF THE CHUKCH IN THE MATTER— IT WAS ON AN OLD CLAIM. Probably not in the history of the Southern Methodist Church has any of the official acts of the general conference attracted such general and wide- spread attention as that by which Maj. E. B. Stahlman, cf Nashville, was al- lowed a fee of something like $l(!0,(;0i) tor services rendered in getting the bill 3447 8 through Congress allowing one of tlio oldest and among the largest of tho Southern war claims against tho Government. It will be remembered tliat this claim grew out of the seizure of the prop- erty of the Southwestern Publishing Company, which is a part of the South- ern Methodist Church, and tho property was located at Nashville. Briefly stated, the history ot that part of the transaction is this: When the Federals captured Nashville this publishing house, with all the supplies and stocks, was converted to tho use of the Federal Government for war purposes, and after the tcrmiiiatitm of that struggle, when a bill was passed by Congress contem- plating tlio iiayment of damages to property and tho amounts of other prop- erty wliich had been absolutely controverted, the Southern Methodist Church authorities made out ascheduloof their lo.sses. audit aggregated over $400,000. It was this account that was paid by the allowing of $38S,OO0at the recent ses- sion of Congress. The schedule of account bad been before Congress for about thirty-three years, and though numerous attempts had been made by the church to get a settlement, it was impossible to succeed until last spring a year ago, when the J;,'S^,UOO claim was allowed. AVIIAT A DELEGATE SAYS. A. W. Newsom, a Front-street merchant of Memphis, was one of the dele- fates from this district to the recent General Conference of the Southern lethodist Church, which was held at Baltimore, and yesterday he was inter- viewed by a Commei-cial Appeal reporter regarding this matter. He is a member of the standing committee on publishing interests, and it was be- fore that committee that tho proof in the case was submitted. It will bo remembered that Barbee & Smith are the biisiness executive heads of the publishing house at Nashville, but operate the business and con- duct the general affairs of that institution under the direct advice and super- vision of what is called the book committee of tho church. Well, it was in the report of this committee and Barbee & Smith that the facts in the Stahl- man matter and the history of the fight before Congress came to the cogni- zance of the general conference. As is usual in such cases, this report, whicli was probably a joint one, was referred to tho standing committee on publish- ing interests. When Mr. Newsom entered the discus.?ion of the question, lie first reviewed the substance of that report on this item and said: "This report detailed all tho facts in connection with the attempts whicli have been made by tho church to collect that money, and the statement was made that the fight had been going on for thirty-three years. It stated that first one and then an- other had been employed to represent the church before Congress, but every one of them gave up the case without having accomplished anything until Major Stahlman was retained. You know how it is when one has such a claim to collect. It is not usual to send good money after a probability, but before the contract with Major Stahlman was made this report showed that we bad paid one man $1;?,(XI0 in cash, and yet he got nothing in return. Tho result was that thereafter contracts were made upon the contingent- fee plan. If the account was settled, in other words, the church's representa- tive got such and such a per cent of the not proceeds. I remember that one of these contracts called for 1.5 per cent, but that man threw the case up after several years of effort. Then another had a contract to receive 25 per cent, but the result was the same; and after that a contract was made with some one to give him, say, 15 or 30 per cejit and a positive fee of $.50,000, provided ho was successful. All of them gave up the case, though, and after so long a time tlie church was given to understand that it might be possible to settle tho matter if a reduction in the amount of the account would be made, and that is how the amount we received come to be only $3bS,000. THEY LOOK TO STAHLMAN. When Sfaior Stahlman took hold of the case the agreement was that he should stand all the expenses of the work before Congress and compromise the church in no way, and his remimeration was fixed at 35 per cent of tho proceeds. This seemed satisfactory to all parties, and certainly is not as largo as many contingent fees of similar character are, for it is my informa- tion that the attorneys and rei)resentatives of the y)arties who have received settlements for war claims are usually paid 50 per cent. Major Stahlman went to work on the case and succeeded, and the committee of which I was a member thought he was entitled to the money, and so did the conference. The amount was therefore allowed. It must be remembered that this was not a donation from the Government to the Southern Methodist Church, but was the payment of a war claim for property which was actually seized and used by tho CJovernmcut for war iiurposes, and the church was put to a big expense to collect it. "What is your exx)lanation of the statement from Barbee & Smith, which was read on tho floor of the Senate by Senator Pasco in connection with that 'large amount' wliich was rumored to have been promised to the lobbyist who got the bill through?' 3447 THEY CORRECT A REPORT. "In the first place, Barbee & Smith have been done an injustice as to that matter, for the reason that all the facts in connection with the correspond- ence between the Senator and the firm have not been printed. When this matter came before onr committee, we read the Qonouessional Record of that day, and after having familiarized ourselves with that side of the ques- tion we'liad the correspondence between Barbee & Smith and the Senator submitted to us. The letter which Senator Pasco wrote to the firm in Nash- ville was to the effect that it had been stated around the floor of the Senate and House that iO per cent of the proceeds of the bill was to go to the lobby- ists, and asked that if the statement was untrue that he be wired to that effect immediately, so that the denial could be used on the floor. " Of course the answer of Barbee & Smith was that the statement was not true, but they, as clients, did not feel called upon to tell what per cent had been agreed upon, and the committee sustained them in their position and showed its confidence by recommendinsr that they be retained in their present positions, which was done. The peculiar fact regarding this entire contro- versy is the justness of the claim has never been questioned. " Now, I know nothing in the world about the methods which were used by Ma.ior Stahlman in pushing that bill through Congress, nor does the church. I assume that he employed attorneys and assistants to aid him in getting up the proof, but further than that I have no idea, except that that must have cost something. The telegram referred to was as follows: "Letter 5th received. The state- ment is untrue, and you are hereby authorized to deny it." All of this cor- respondence was submitted with the proof in the case, and it was upon that the committee acted. THE MATTER DISCUSSED. To ihe Commcrcicd Appeal: Of course it is true a largo sum of money was used in securing the pay- ment of the claim of the Southern Methodist Book Concern. No one ought attempt to deny it, and no one ought to be surprised. If money had not been used, and used freely, the claim never would have been paid. Every one knows, or ought to know, it is impossible to get a just and honest claim paid by our Government unless we spend half the amount employing lobbyists to work it through. Even then, as in this particular case, it requires upward of thirty years of fighting to accomplish it. The Government is not in the habit of paying her debts until she can no longeravoid it. TheagentsfortheBookConcernknew thatif itwasadmitted they had to pay out some of this money to outsiders they would get nothing. So they refused to admit it. That is about the size of it. And when we think of it we can not help but inquire, what business was it of these Congressmen how the concern woiild dispose of the money that belonged to them? If the Government owed it. no matter if they expected to open up a saloon, run a brewery, or give the whole of it to lobbyists, it was no business of these gen- tlemen, who, by reason of their own contrariness and a few other qualities singular to their station, made it necessary to the success of the claim to em- ploy these men. I forget who it was, but some distinguished citizen once said he would rather be born a good, healthy pauper than to inherit an honest, just claim of a million dollars against the Government. E. F. M. [From Zion's Outlook.] A GREAT CALAMITY. The disclosures made by the Congressional Record's report, published elsewhere in this issue, of the methods employed by our publishing house officials in securing the war claim of $288,000 are enough to bring the blush to the cheek of every self-respecting iSIethodist. The United States Senate was grossly deceived and made to believe that none of this appropriation would be used in compensating attornevs. The Senate would not have voted the appropriation but for the assurance" thus given them repeatedly that the eiitire $288,000 would be wholly and sacredly devoted to the benefit of our worn-out preachers and the helpless widows and orphans of deceased preach- ers, whose miseries and needs were eloquently pleaded to secure the passage of the bill. „ , „ This deception of the United States Senate was complete. Senator PASCO read the following telegram from our Book Agents to refute the charge that a large sutu was to be used in compensating attorneys: ',' Letter of 5th received. The statement is untrue and you are hereby authorized to deny it." „ . Notwithstanding this telegram and other assurances to the same eltert quoted by other Senators from the same source, our Book Agents, as soon as they received the $288,000, paid over $100,800 of it to the attorney employed to push the claim. It is the gross fraud and deception practiced iu order tc 3417 10 obtain tlif iipiiro))ri;ition agaiinst which we raise oiii- protest. It is a disgrace to Mi-'tbodisiii and a wrong to every pure-minded man and woman and every faithful preacher throughout our couimuuiou. It involves us all in a wrong for wliioh there is uo defense or apology possible to be made. It is in lino with the low and corrupt methods of the avaricious and overreaching trick- sters of the world. The United States Senate owes it to itself and the country it represents to investitjate this fraud. The book committee was cognizant of the di.5grace- ful fraud before general conference met, and should have promptly on its own motion indignantly refused to retain money secured by such false pre- tenses and refunded it to the Government. If they plead lack of authority to refund it, we reply that they should have recommended unanimously to general conference its return to the Government, with their reasons for the recommendation. The general conference should have taken action liromjitly, even after this guilty silence on the part of the book committee. A number of delegates went to Baltimore righteously indignant at tho f i-aud and determined on an investigation by that body, but became strangely silent under some potent influence. Very reliable rumor places the source of that potent influence which so successfully silenced these brethren and ])revented an investigation with the plea that an investigation "would dam- age the church." We arc pushing investigations for more deflnite informa- tion as to the parties who assumed tb.is ignoble rule of suppressionists of an investigation into a fraud perpetrated in the name of and for the benefit of tho church. It is passing strange that strong men, such as we know were in possession of tho nauseous facts connected with this ugly transaction, could nave been induced to quietness by any sort of influence. Stranger still the plea made to persuade them into silence that an investigation or discussion of it would injure the church. Have wo come to this low level of party politics and Ijolitical methods— covering up crime and .shielding criminals for the good of the party ? This is tho cry of party politicians. It is only a party conception of the church that too many people and preachers have. The church is only esteemed a party— a mere machine. To expose wrong yoa will expose tho wrongdoer who' has high official position in tho machine, and thereby you will damage the coofflcers in tho machine. Break one link in tho chain which forms and holds the blessed ring in power and you may disturb tho entire ring. Political parties do wrong when they cover up crimes in trusted leaders for fear of endangering party supremacy. What shall one s.iy of a church which in her leader.s or representatives dares to do the same " for fear of in- .iuring the church"? Is not the church the representative of tho right and tho divinely decreed enemy of the false? Is not harboring or conniving at wrong subver.sivo of tho fundamental and inherent idea and purpose of tho church? Away with the nonsense that the good of the church is to be con- served by winking at wrong. It means simply that our growing and cum- brous ecclesiastical officialism would have received a blow. Too much and too highly paid officialism is the source and the aggrava- tion of very many ills that afiSict us and menace us with far worse ills to come. INSUFFICIENT INDOIiSEMENT. The Publishing House officials feel very serene and secure under tho in- dorsemeiit of the book committee and the general conference. They will learn, however, that tho book committee and tho general conference are not set for the t-reation of a new code of morals. They have no right, human or divine, to set aside the decalogue. An outraged church will be heard. Book committees and general conferences can not construe morals for the South- ern Methodist Church. We propose still to lean on the Ten Commandments for our code. Modern Methodist officialism may esteem us very antiquated and old fogy, or oven f.-inatical, for clinging to this ancient document, out we will have to (mduro their contempt and continue to live by the old Decalogue. We must be allowed, too, to insist upon our high officials, whom wc have honored with places of trust and responsibility, living by the same code. We protest also against their committing us as a church toa breach of this Decalogue. Hence wo demand that the $288,000 be refunded to the United States Government. The book committee and tho general conference can give high indorse- ment, but Sinai has a higher. Mv. BATE. Mr. President, I desire to say that if what I hear and what I have seen in the newspapers is true — some of the very papers referred to by the Senator from IMassachnsetts— this is. an outrtige mjon the confidence reposed in the agents of this pub- lishing house company by the Senate, and I say to tho Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. Lodgk] that I will vote for his resolu- tion. ;m47 11 I was one of the Senators who induced the Senate to cast their votes in favor of the bill referred to. That was not done by me alone, by any means, but nearly every Southern Senator favored its passage. Indeed, Mr. President, I believe almost the whole church, North and South, and every single bishop, at least so far as I can remember, with one or two exceptions, asked that the bill be passed by Congress. The bill came here from the House, having passed that body. A short time before it was called up for consideration in the Sen- ate something was said about lobbying upon the oiTtside in order to get the bill through. There were such rumors afloat that we thought it necessary to probe them to the bottom, so as to know whether or not there was any truth in them. The Senator from Florida [Mr, Pasco] who had the bill in charge, he being the chairman of the subcommittee of the Committee on Claims of the Senate, wrote to the men who really had the control of this claim, Messrs. Barbee & Smith. I am glad nothing is said assailing the church. I did not mean to intimate that the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. Lodge] de- sired to assail the church, but he cut me off before I got through with the remarks I intended to make; but I agree with that Sen- ator that if these agents, Barbee & Smith, have violated the con- fidence we reposed in them, or have done tliat which is in any sense improper touching the distribution of this fund, they should be exposed and held strictly to account. Mr. HALE. Who are Barbee & Smith? Mr. BATE. I will tell you who they are. They are the agents of the Publishing House of the Methodist Episcopal Church South. They have all the business management which relates, I believe, to the distribution of its literature, and everything of that kind. They are leading characters, to some extent at least, of the Methodist Episcopal Church South. It so happens that I live in the same town where this large establishment is located and where these gentlemen both live, and it is presumable that I ought to know something about this case. I know nothing, hovf- ever, except what has occurred before the Senate. I undertook to do the best I could in my proper sphere as a Senator, as did many other Senators who were here on this floor, and who were active friends of this measure, for the good of the church; and, as was said by the Senator from Massachusetts, for the poor, super- numerary, superannuated, broken-down preachers and theli- fami- lies. That was the obiective of this fund, as I understood it. I do not know whether Barbee & Smith have any legal or moral right to dispose of any part of this fund in the Avay which it is charged has been*^ done. It may be a "waste of the estate," for they seem to occupy the position of trustees, and as such, there- fore, I think they have violated their trust when they under- take to expend such an amount as this for such a purpose, and they ought to be held liable under the law. I think the matter ought to be fully investigated by the courts of the country, and it mav yet be so investigated. Further, I am persuaded, for I know the material of which is made the Tennessee Methodist Episcopal Church South Confer- ence—I say I believe that the Tennessee Conference, which meets this fall, will itself investigate this matter to see that justice is done, if possible, to these worn-out preachers, who are, in my judgment, entitled to the benefit of this fund. ;U47 12 jMr. HALE. Where does this lobbyist, Stahlman, who is said to have got this money, live? Mr. BATE. He lives in Nashville. He is a German by birth, and I believe came from some states about the time of the civil ■war. Mr. HALE. Is he a lawyer or a member of the bar? Mr. BxVTE. I do not kiiow that he is a lawyer. He is a rail- voad man and u very smart, bright man, a man who has had much experience and great success, Mr. HALE. Does the Senator believe that this lobbyist, who has looted this great appropriation that Congress gave to this religious society, has ever in any way contributed to the passage of the bill. Did it not go through entirely outside of him? Mr. BATE. I do not know -what he has done except this: He was a very active friend of this claim; ho was very active here, and, I think, particularly so in the other House, and when the bill was in the Senate he was active in doing what he could in its favor; but I do not know what effect he ever had. Mr. HALE. What could he do? Mr. BATE, He could not do anything except to urge its passage. He was thoroughly familiar with this whole matter, and when the committee met on one or two occasions, he was before it, invited there, lirst, by my late colleague. Senator Harris; and when there he made a full statement of the history of the claim and an argu- ment showing the amount of damages, etc., and I was present and heard it. He showed entire familiarity with the subject. That much 1 know, but I am going to tell you presently how that is. He assured me and a half dozen other Senators on this floor, who told me of it at the time, and from whom you will hear in this debate, that he was to receive no fee and was doing the serv- ice for the good of the church, as he and his wife v/^ere members of it, Mr. HALE. I wanted to bring that out. Mr. BATE. I am coming to that. Mr. HALE. This man said he had no fee whatever. Mr. BATE. That he had no fee whatever, and furthermore, I believed, if the Senator will permit me. that he woiTld get no such fee as has been i^aid, or anything like it, or even any fee except the moderate one to pay his actual expenses; and I would have voted against the bill if I had supposed any such fee, or anything like it, as the one he is said to have received would have been paid to him or anyone else. Mr. SPOONER. I presume I was responsible Mr. BATE. I yield to the Senator. Mr. SPOONER. I thought the Senator was through. Mr. BATE. I am not through, but I yield to the Senator with pleasure. Mr. SPOONER. Mr. Pre.^ident. I suppose I was responsible for the suggestion or report here that there was a very large percentage of this claim to be paid to some person for securing the passage of the bill through Congress. One evening at the Arlington Hotel I was told by a newspaper man whom I had long known and in whom I had reason to have confidence tliat such was the fact; and I repeated that to the Senator from Indiana [Mr. Fairbanks] who is a member of the Committee on Claims, of which I was for many years a member, as a reason why the claim ought not to pass without, at any rate, a careful scrutiny and investigation of that matter, 2U7 13 The Senator from Indiana promptly, as it was his duty to do, brought the report to the attention of the Senator from Florida having the bill in charge. The report was resented somewhat as entirely without foimdation, and elicited a statement from the Senator from Florida and others, undoubtedly made in perfect good faith and upon sufficient evidence submitted by them to the Senate, that there was no triith in the statement. I am quite sur- prised to find now that the report seems to be verified. Mr. BATE. Mr. President, I prefer going on without further interruption, and I shall be as brief as possible about this matter since it has been brought up, and I am very glad that it has been brought up, so the Methodist Church and the country generally can learn the truth of these ugly charges. Nothing, Mr. President, has occurred since I have been a mem- ber of this Senate which has given me so much chagrin, disap- pointment, and mortification as the fact that every representation made by myself and other Senators to the effect that no attor- ney's fee and no agent's compensation was carried by the bill fo* the relief of the Book Agents of the Methodist Episcopal Churcli South seems to have turned out dilterently, and that the Senate, misled by the assurances of Senators made honestly and in the best of faith and upon good grounds, has been induced to appro- priate money which has gone to agents and attorneys, when wa supposed we were sending relief and support only to " the super- anntiated and worn-out preachers, their wives, widows, and orphans." For myself, Mr, President, I can only say that I relied on the positive and unqualified statement of Mr. Stahlman, one of the active friends of the measure, and to whom the fee or per cent is said to have been paid, that he was giving his aid and services in this matter because both his wife and himself were members of that church, and lie assured me, as he did several other Senators, notably Senator Turley, my colleague, now absent; Senators Bacon, Clay, Lindsay, and others, that he was getting no com- pensation, fee, or reward for his services; and I also relied on the telegram t sent to Barbee & Smith on the 7th of March and answer thereto. Further, my reply to the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. Tillman] was based on the same grounds. The Senator from South Carolina said: Before the Senator takes lais seat I should like him to tell us what he knows abovit the dispositiou of this money, and whether the attorneys are to get any of it. Mr. Bate. I will take pleasure in staying that as I heai-d such a rumor whispered around yesterday or the day before, I got a dispatch, as also did the chairman of the subcommittee of the Committee on Claims, from Barbeo & Smith, who are the head of the concern, stating that there was not a word of truth in the statement that the fund was to be diverted in any such way. A great deal of woi'k has been done about this case, but this is a grand, great church, and the country is full of sympathy for it; and men of intelligence want to see this church sustained; and they think the claim a proper and just one, and that it should be paid. Mr. Tillman. Then the money is to go to the church, and not to attorneys? Mr. Bate. It is to go to the church, and it is to become a part of the plant, if I may so speak, and the proceeds of it are to be given over to these unfor- tunate preachers. That is the situation of it. Senator Pasco, relying on the same telegraphic assurance, gave the Senate to understand that neither fee nor compensation of any kind was to be paid out of the proceeds. Senator Morgan, also, with the same faith in the personal honor of the gentlemen who have been assisting in the passage of this bill, advised the Senate that " they would scorn the idea of being here on hii-e for the pur- pose of getting a fee or reward out of this charity." 3147 14 Seiiator Clay nncierstooa that "all his (the agent's) expenses were paid by the church, and for his services he charged noth- ing." Senator Pettus expressed the opinion that in his State no respectable lawyer would charge a fee beyond expenses in such a case. And Senator Hoar assured the Senate that— The member of the House of Representatives from that district- Mr. J. "W. Gaines— informs me aiuT authorizes mo to say that the gentlemen who have charge of tlii.s claim are the Rev. Dr. Barbee, a clergyuuvu of eminent and high and pure character, and Mr. Smith, a layman, bat a man also devoted to reli- gious work, being superintendent ot a Sunday school and active in its man- agement. They are the Book Agents, so called, and they have both person- ally informed me that no money has been expended, and there is no extraor- dinary debt or obligation for any such service. I have quoted the several assurances given in debate at the timo of the passage of the bill to emphasize the extent of the deception that it seems has been practiced upon the Senate. To be deceived and misled by the confidence reposed in the character of these Book Agents is extremely mortifying. Tliat mortification is also shared by the great church which has been wronged out of so large a part of tliis charitable fund. 1 entertain the hope that some explanation will be forthcoming which will relieve Messrs. Barbee & Smith from the responsi- bility which now rests upon them for having given the assurances they did to the Senator from Florida [Mr. Pasco] and to myself that "neither 40 per cent, nor any other fee," was to be paid out of this appropriation, to Mr. Stahlman, and that those gentlemen have not been the paymasters of the exorbitant fee reported to have been paid out of this fund. I have known those gentlemen for years and held them in such high esteem that their telegram was with me conclusive that there was no fee concealed in the bill which would have not re- ceived my support after the rumor of a fee became current with- out their unqualified assurance. I introduced the bill which has resulted in the payment of this amount to said agents for their church. 1 never understood the matter in the light of a claim that required agents or attorneys, but always regarded it as a bill for the relief of a great charity from hardship and devastation inflicted during the war, and which was addressed not only to the justice of Congress, bitt to its charity. I separated this relief from the ordinary claims paid by the War Department and put it on the same footing with the bills for re- lief of the Kentucky University, the East Tennessee University, the University of Alabama, William and Mary College of Virginia, and other institutions of like character which came within the category, which tended to "make war more humane, generous, and liberal," by exempting, as far as possible, from its devastations the churches, charities, schools, universities, and libraries, as stated so well by the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. Hoar]. I regret that the amendment of the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. Lodge] providing that no fee greater than $5,000 should be paid out of the appropriation was not adopted; but after the full and repeated assurances given to Senators, and by them laid be- fore the Senate, it seemed unneces.'^ary to take the precaution which endangered the passage of the bill through the House of Representatives. It was that fear only which induced the Senate to lay that amendment on the table; and thatisamatter of regret now to every Senator. 311T 15 Mr. President, no one questions the justness of this claim. In- deed, I tliink the proof, when properly understood, would justly sustain an amount of $450,000; and helieving that the Court of Claims, w^here pleadings are made up, proof taken, lawyers em- ployed, etc., and where lobbyists do not appear, would do justice in the case, I advocated that course, and a bill to that effect was introduced in tlie Senate by me and passed, and it was sent to tho House. Meanwhile the bill was placed on what is known as the "omnibus bill," then in the Senate Committee on Claims. The next time it was known to the records of the Senate was when it was sent to this body after having passed the House for the amount of ,$288,000. The whole amount of the §288,000, as I am informed and believe, was paid to Bar bee & Smith, the representatives and agents of the piiblishing house of the Methodist Episcopal Church South, and not to any attorney, and since this ugly criticism has arisen they should, in my opinion, promptly and without reserve, ou their own motion, show what has become of every dollar of this fund, show who got any part of it, for what, and how much. They owe it to themselves and to the great church they repre- sented in this transaction. I will not be a party to shield a wrong if I know it. and neither will Senators who favored this bill, but believe in all cases that fraud and deceit should be exposed, plucked out by the roots, and left to wnther under the search light of truth, "Hew to the line and let the chips fall where they may,"' is a good old honest motto. I can safely and truthfully say for every Senator who cooperated to secure the passage of this bill, "Let the galled jade wince, our withers are unwrung."' While I knew, as did many others, 'for it was generally known, that Mr. Stahlman, among others, was a warm and active friend of this bill, I never heard of any contract for any fee in this case, and was utterly surprised to hear the rumor to that effect for the first time a few days before the passage of the bill. It so sur- prised me that, notwithstanding Major" Stahlman's statement to me and to other Senators that no fees were to be paid, in order to make doubly sure of it I telegraphed to Barbee & Smith, the interested parties, in whom I had perfect confidence, and they gave the full and complete denial of Stahlman having a fee of 40 i)er cent or any other fee in payment of the claim. I beg to read that. Let me say right here that when this sprung np, I was surprised to hear any such thing, and I wanted to find out if there was any truth in it and by what authority I had said to the Senate and others had said that it was untrue. I turned to look at the communication I sent them. I had not paid any at- tention to it. I thought perhaps I did not have it. I could not find my telegram. Fortunately for me it was a telegram and not a letter. Then I resorted to the telegraph office here in the city of Washington for the communications, both the one I sent to them on this subject, the very day before the passage of the bill on the 7th of March last, and the answer thereto. Happily I found them on file in the telegraph office, and I will read them. Here is a copy of my dis- patch to them: Washingtox, March 7, ISOS. Barbee & Smith. Methodist Publishing Ilouse, KashviUe, Tcnn, Mr. PASCO. That is dated the day befoi'e the passage of the bill, 8i47 16 Mr. BATE. The day before the passage of the bill; about the same (bite that you got your dispatch. My dispatch to them says: Tolejrrav^h to-day answer to Senator Pasco's letter to you Saturday as to Btahhiian having fee of 40 iier cent or any other fee in case of payment of votir claim. I would like to hear from you al^;o. In my judgment, if true. It will endanger the bill. WM. B. BATE. Here is the answer which they sent to that very positive tele- gram, addressed to me on the same day of March, including not only the 40 per cent, but "'any other fee:" Nashville, Te:;x., March 7, 1S03. Hon. W. B. Bate: We wired Senator Pasco early this a. m. as follows: "The statement ia imtrue, and you are therefore authorized to deny it." BARBEE & SMITH. Feeling assured of its truth, 1 felt f ull^' authorized to say to the Senate, as I did, that there was no truth in the rumor, and that the fund would be used as a part of the publishing house plant, and the net income go to aid the supernumeraries, superannuated poor preachers, and their families, and, Mr. President, I believe this fund belongs to them now, and the church ought to see that it is put to that use, and I have such faith in the honesty and love of justice of that great church tliat I believe it will see it done. In my opinion it ought to do that or return every dollar of it to the Government. That grand, noble, and useful church, free Irom stain and scandal, can not rest under any charge, or even intimation, of receiving money under false pretenses, or for one pui'pose and appropriate it to another, no more than it can retain money obtained by falsehood, fraud, and deceit. I personally know the Rev. Mr. B.arbee— knowhimtobe a lead- ing and influential minister of the gospel of the Methodist per- suasion. He formerly occupied McKendree Church, perhaps the largest, richest, and most influential Methodist Church in the State; was universally respected, and. as I understood, v/as chosen to take charge of that large publishing house establishment be- cause of his integrity and strong points of character. 1 know Mr, Smith by reputation most favorably. I know that both of them v/ere held in the very highest esteem by the best people where the}' and I live, that is, in the city of Nashville. 1 could not believe that either of those gentlemen woiild pur- posely, under any circumstances, mislead me or any member of this Senate. With that kind of faith and conviction, on hearing the rumor that a large per cent of the claim, if recovered, would go to Stahlman, I telegraphed these gentlemen, Barbee & Smith, with the view of getting the facts in regard to said rumor, in order to satisfy myself, and to i)rescnt them, if necessary, to my fellow-Senators. Now, by way of putting Senators, myself among them, who cooperated in getting the bill passed, in the true and proper light, I have read these telegrams. The originals of which these are copies are now on file in the ofTice of tlie Western Union Tele- graph Company in this city. I have only gotten them in the last tew days, since the recent scandal 8i)rung up about the large fea paid to Stahlman, that they might aid in a vindication and com- plete justification of our cour.se in passing the bill. Even a doubt- ing Thomas would have believed these teh^grams under the cir- cumstances—and one who Avould not should cast the first stone. Therefore we were perfectly justified in giving that vote. I 17 was justified in believing that there was no fee to be paid to any- one, perhaps the expenses, but nothing more. The Senate be- lieved that, from what I said and from what the Senator from Florida [Mr, Pasco] said, and from what the Senator from Georgia [Mr. Clay] said, and from what the Senator from Alabama [Mr. Morgan] and several other Senators said, there was no truth in the rumor referred to. I felt grateful to have that confidence reposed in me. But you see we are disappointed in it. If it is true— I do not know whether or not it is, but I believe it is, from what the Senator from Massachusetts says— that a part of this fund has been malappropriated, as much as §100,000 of it, I tliink it is the duty of these men to expose it and show where it went, to whom, and for what. If they fail to do so, then let the committee which is asked for here or some other committee in- vestigate it and let the courts look into it and see that these poor, unfortunate ministers for whom this fund was set apart have their rights in this matter. I believe that these agents, Barbee & Smith, occupy the position of trustees in this fund, and there may be a charge of " wasting the estate." It is a trust fund and I am not sure but that a court would put in its generous and equitable hand to relieve them. I want the matter exposed. Let us go to the bottom. As I said, " Hew to the line and let the chips fall where they may." Mr. PASCO. Mr. President, I have been for some time hearing- rumors about this Chamber and in the city with reference to the application of a part of this fund which was voted to the Methodist Book Agents. I have seen some statements in the newspapers charging that apart of it has been misapplied. When such reports first reached me, I could not credit them; it seemed impossible that they could be true. The evidence, however, has accumu- lated and is constantly accumitlating, and recently I have been furnished — by the publishers, I presume— with a copy of a paper called Zion's Outlook. It is, perhaps, the same paper which has been made use of by the Senator from Massachusetts in introduc- ing the resolution. It is published at Nashville. Tenn. I under- stand, upon inquiry, that the editor of it, B. F. Haines, is a well- known Methodist minister there, a man of high character and standing, and he is thoroughly impressed with the truth of these statements; and I fear they are true. If so, then out of the §288,- 000 which was voted for the use of the Methodist Church by our bill $100,800 went to a claim agent who was hero representing them in endeavoring to secure the passage of the bill. We were assured while the bill was pending that there was no such contract exist- ing as authorized the payment of a large aniount of money to a claim agent. That statement was made through me. It came from the Book Agents themselves, and as 1 was the medium of this commiinication, it is proper that I should say something in reference to the matter now that it has been brouglit up by the Senator from Massachusetts. (Jertainly, if there is anything misleading or erroneotis in the telegram which I read to tlie Senate on the 8th of March, it was not suspected at the time by the Senator from Tennessee, who also communicated with Messrs. Barbee & Smith with reference to this matter, or by myself, and. after we had stated the source of our information to the Senate, I know there is not a Senator upon the floor who believed that any such contract as we had inquired about existed. The Senator from Massachusetts jMr. Lodge], suspecting strongly that there was such a contract, ofiered an 18 amendment that only $5,000 of tlie fund should be paid to any claiui agent or attorney. I opposed tlie amendment and I fur- nished evidence to the Senate to show why it was unnecessary. But it will be remembered that the purpose of the amendment was not to defeat the bill. It was simply to protect the benefi- ciaries of the trust. So far as the Government is concerned, no in.iur\' or wrong or damage has been done. This claim has been before the two Houses of Congress for more than a quarter of a century. Many favorable reporls upon the bills providing for its payment have been made in the House of Representatives, and although the reports in the Senate have been less frequent and less numerous, whenever the claim has been reported upon by a committee having it in charge here, the maiorityof the committee have always rendered a favorable report. More than twenty years ago the distmguished Senator from Alabama [Mr. Morgan] now in his seat made a very able and exhaustive report upon this subject, and that report has been the basis for all subsequent reports which have been made in the House of Representatives. In later years it was not practicable to get the claim through the Senate com- mittee, but there was never an adverse majority report made upon it by the Committee on Claims, and during the last two or three years several favorable reports have been made upon it. The members of the two Houses of Congress generally under- stood the merits of this claim. It was pretty well known through- out the country. The facts generally have been stated in the newspapers, and it was understood that the claim against the Government had a solid basis upon w^iich to rest; and we all know the reasons which prevented earlier action upon the bill that would give this money to the Methodist Church. But during the present Congress the time seemed to be ripe for pressing it. It was taken up in the House of Representatives, debated there, the facts wei'e all carefully presented, and when it came to a final vote more than two-thirds voted in favor of the passage of the bill. It came over here. It went to the Committee on Claims. A favorable report was made by the committee, and later we had an opportunity to call it up for consideration, and in the debate which followed my recollection is that but a single Senator op- posed the passage of the bill. The justice of the claim was gen- erally recognized, and those who believed that there was no strictly legal claim upon the Government for the amount felt there were merits in it and good reasons why the amount should be allowed, and they joined with us in securing the passage of the bill. As the Senator from Tennessee has already stated, a very much larger amount was claimed by the church. In their petition they asked for $458,400, and I think every Senator who has ever exam- ined the claim on its merits, in committee or upon the floor of the Senate, has been satisfied that if any amount should be paid, a larger sum than that named in the bill could properly have been allowed to the claimants. So the Government has suffered no loss or damage or injury by the failure to put this amendment upon the bill. The damage has been done to the beneficiaries of the trust. The people of the United States have not been injured, and there is no special reason why the Senate should enter into an exammation of the subject, because the Government has not suf- fered and we are not injured and those we are called upon to pro- tect are not the sufferers. The sufferers are the beneficiaries of this trust. 3147 19 Mr. TILLMAN. Will the Senator from Florida allow me for a moment? Mr. PASCO. Certainly. Mr. TILLMAN. Does not the Senator from Florida think that the whole Senate is injured in the estimation of the public by hav- ing a lot of thieves come here and lie us out of money in this way? Mr. PASCO. I do not think the Senator from South Carolina and I differ very much in condemning such action. Mr. TILLMAN. This is the first claim of that nature coming up from that section of the country which has been considered by the Senate and passed on favorably. There are just claims pend- ing, possibly: I know nothing about them, but I know that after such an exhibition of greed and indecency it will be very difficult for any of ns to trust anybody hereafter. Mr. PASCO. I feel sure there will be a proper spirit of discrim- ination in the minds of Senators when other claims come up here to jiidge them upon their merits. It may be necessary for us to put some clause in these bills to protect claimants against their agents, if we have good cause to think that they are in danger of unfair treatment; but we did not believe that such action was necessary in the present case, and 1 wish to give the reasons why I entertained that view. I heard the report which was circulated about the Senate Chamber last February or March — I am not sure but that the Senator from Indiana [Mr. Fairbanks] was the first to call mv attention to it Mr. FAIRBANKS. If fhe Senator from Florida [Mr. Pasco] will allow me, I will state that the suggestion came to me through the honorable Senator from Wisconsin [Mr. Sfooner]; that he had heard that there was a contingent fee of greater or less amount involved in the claim. I then immediately communicated the fact to the Senator from Florida [Mr. Pasco] who was in charge of the bill, and said to him that if that was true, I should oppose the claim; that I would not consent, so far as I was concerned, to its payment if any portion of it was to be paid to any claim agent. I was assured by him and by the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. Bate] most positively that the rumor was absolutely without foimdation and that the entire claim would go to the church. Mr. BATE. I wish to state that that is correct. I had an in- terview with the Senator from Indiana, who was opposed to the claim and that was the ground of his opposition: and I told him that there was certainly no truth in that. I told him about this dispatch to me. Mr. TILLMAN. If the Senator from Florida Avill permit me, he has a letter which he wrote to these gentlemen. I should be glad if he would have it read, so that we may know just what the basis of the deceit was; how much of a lie they did tell. Mr. PASCO. The Senate is entitled to hear all I know about the subject, and I propose to give this letter and such informa- tion as I have relating to these charges in the progress of my re- marks. When the bill w-as up for discussion, I did not read the letter, because it was not then at hand, but I stated its contents. The Senate is entitled, and the country is entitled, to whatever facts are in my jDossession; and now that the Senator from Mas- sachusetts has brought the matter up, I propose to give them as fnlly and freely as the Senate or any individual Senator desires to have them. Mr. President, I am correct in my recollection that the Senator from Indiana first called the matter to my attention. I heard it 3417 20 with a good deal of feeling. I felt, whether or liot I manifested it to him, some indignation that there slionld be such a report. I did not think it was possible, and I did not hesitate to inform him and other Senators who spoke to me about it that I was satisfied tliat the rumor was false. I felt as they did— that I could not support the bill if a large portion of the amount to be appropri- ated was to bo paid to an agent or attorney. The rumor circulated throughout the Senate Chamber and among Senators, and a number came to me for information iipou the subject, knowing the bill was in my hands and under mj^ di- rection as the subcommittee of the Committee on Claims; and when called upon, I took upon myself the responsibility of saying that it was false. I took the ground, in the first place, that the Book Agents had not the aiithority to make an such bargain. The amount I heard about the Chamber was 40 per cent. Whether it was ;J0 or 35 or 40 per cent is immaterial. Any such ratio of com- pensation was excessive, and I took the ground that the Book Agents had no power as trustees to make any wasteful contract with a claim agent for the recovery of this fund. In addition to that, although I do not know the Book Agents personally, I knew from their reputation, that they were gentle- men of the highest personal character and good business men, and I felt sure that they would not make an improvident contract, and I felt sui-e that they knew it was impossible that so large an amount as this could be legitimately used in the prosecution of any claim before the two Houses of Congress. I wish to give from the record the authority which these Book Agents have. I Avill not read it all, biit I will have it all put into the Record. I take it from the report which I made during the Fifty-fourth Congress; but these matters of record were person- ally compared by me with the original books from which they were taken. I had some of them sent to me from Nashville. The first document I wish to put in the Record is a resolution adopted at the session of the General Conference of the Methodist Episco- pal Church South, held in Columbus. Ga., May, 1854. That was the time when the plan of a publishing house was originated. The resolution is as follows: L'esolvrd, That the committeo on books and periodicals Ijc, and they are herehy, instructed to report a judicious system for tlie early commenceinent and ultimate establishment of a book concern proper of the Methodist Epis- copal Church South. 0) The Book Concern sball consist of a publishing house at . The name and i^lace had not then been determined. (3) Of a manufacturing establishment of books in connection with said liouse. (:j) Of an agent or agents to whom shall bo committed, under the advice and approbation of .t Ijook committee appointed by the K-etieral conference, the control of tlie funds of the church known as the book fund, and the con- duct of the business for the next four years. (4) The agent or agents shall be required by law to provide, by and with the advice and approhationof said committee in buildings and other fix tiares and materials, for publishing and mauufacturingall the books, etc., necessary to meet the demands of the Southern peojjlo on strictly business principles— that is (1), such books as from tl:e accidence of their publication can bo pub- lished as cheaply in the city of their location as elsewhere the agents shall manufacture at their own estaljlishmont; C') such books as from the acci- dence of their publication can bo i)ul)lishcd cheaper at some other manufac- tory of the country shall be published by contract at such manufactory. Ponding the discussion of these resolutions, the hour of adjournment wa.s poBtj)oned, and, after their adoption, conference adjourned with the beno- aiction of the bishop. Later, in February, 18G0, the State of Tennessee incorporatecl 3147 21 the puLlisliiug house, aiul I have the .act of hacorpc ration here. It is as follows: [Laws of Tennessee, 1855-56. Chapter 136, page 196. ;i An act to incorjioratc the Agents of the Publishing House of the Methodist Episcopal Church South, in the city ot Nashville. SEr'TioNl. Be it enacted hi/ the general nsscmbiy of the State of Tennessee, That Edward Stephenson and Francis A. Owen, and their successors in office, be, and they are hereby, made a body corporate and politic, under the name and stylo of the "Book Agents of the Methodist Episcopal Church South,"' and by that name and style to have perpetual succession, for the manufac- ture and distribution of books, tracts, periodicals, etc.; to make wid use a common seal, and the same to alter at pleasure; in this name to sue and be sued, contract and be contracted with, hold personal and real estate, by pur- chase, deed, grant, gift, devise, oi bequest, and the same to sell or dispose of as they may deem best for the interests involved. Sec. 'i. Be it enacted. That the corporation hereby created shall now, and at all times hereafter, be under the cnntrol of the said Methodist Episcopal Church South, according to the laws and usages of the same, as contained in the present or in any fixture edition of their discipline. Passed February ^'6, IS-jil. NEIL S. BROWN, Spi'okcf of the House of Represenf (dices. EDWARD S. CHEATHAM, Speaker of the Senate. Now, I take from their discipline the laws and iisagcs relating to this matter: Section VIII. — Of printincj ami circulaiincj hooka and periodicals, and of tlie Xjrofd arisinij therefrom. Ahticle 1. There .shall bo a book establishment at the city of Nashville, Tenn., for the purpose of manufacturing and ]nibii