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DEC 22 1920 37
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT %Ž
DECENNIAL CENSUSES
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HEARING |
BEFORE THE
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COMMITTEE ON THE CENSUS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
/4
SIXTY-FIFTH CONGRESS
SE("OND SESSION
ON
A L8 II, L TO PROVIDE FOR THE FOURTEENTH AND
SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES
MARCH 6, 1918
PART 3 –
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WASHINGTON
( ; () VERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
191 S
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
COMMITTEE ON THE CENSUs,
Hous E OF REPRESENTATIVEs,
|Wednesday, March 6, 1918.
The committee this day met, Hon. Harvey Helm (chairman)
presiding.
STATEMENT OF MR. SAM L. ROGERS, DIRECTOR OF THE
CEN SUS.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee had considered section 3, I think.
Mr. JUUL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Section 4: “That the Assistant Director shall per-
form such duties as may be prescribed by the Director of the Census.”
Mr. HERSEy. Is it necessary, Mr. Chairman, to read the whole
section ? I do not think any member of the committee has any
objection to the old law. The only changes we should consider, I
think, are changes made in the old law. wº
The CHAIRMAN. The bill should be read through, section by
Sect1On.
SEC. 4. That the assistant director shall perform such duties as may be prescribed
by the Director of the Census. In the absence of the director, the assistant director
shall serve as director, and in the absence of the director and assistant director, the
chief clerk shall serve as director.
The appointment clerk shall perform the duties assigned him by the Director of the
Census. The disbursing clerk of the Census Office shall, at the beginning of the
decennial census period, give bond to the Secretary of the Treasury in the sum of
$100,000, surety to be approved by the Solicitor of the Treasury, which bond shall be
conditioned that the said officer shall render, quarter yearly, a true and faithful
account to the proper accounting officers of the Treasury of all moneys and properties
which shall be received by him by virtue of his office during the said decennial
census period. Such bond shall be filed in the office of the Secretary of the Treasury,
to be by him put in suit upon any breach of the conditions thereof. -
Mr. JUUL. What will it cost the officer to give this $100,000 bond
Mr. SIEGEL. It is not a question of cost. He is not required to
furnish a surety company bond; he can furnish a real estate bond.
Mr. JUUL. I am trying to find out if he has to purchase the bond
and whether it will consume his salary.
Mr. SIEGEL. The bill does not provide that he shall give a surety
company bond; he can get his friends to furnish the bond. -
Mr. JUUL. Suppose he can not do that ? - &
Mr. SIEGEL. The surety companies are now furnishing bonds for
practically nothing.
Mr. As well. Who pays for the bond 7
Mr. SIEGEL. The applicant for the position.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Does the Director of the Census pay for the bond Z
Mr. SIEGEL. No. The disbursing clerk. The man who receives
the money usually gives the bond.
69
70 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
Mr. As well. That is cleared up in section 5.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. I am informed that the rate is about $250, that
the minimum is $200.
Mr. As well. I will ask the Director of the Census to make a state-
ment as to how the bond is paid for.
Mr. RogFRs. It is usually taken in a bonding company. If I
had to approximate the cost, I would say $100.
Mr. SIEGEL. Every collector of internal revenue throughout the
country is required to give a bond and every subagent.
Mr. As well. I am not objecting to it, but who pays for it 2
Mr. SIEGEL. The man himself. He is getting an increase in salary
here of $250 to meet that.
Mr. As well. That is in section 5, the next section ?
Mr. SIEGEL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further remarks by members of the
committee ?
Mr. HERSEY. I was wondering why they struck out the duties
which were placed in the act providing for a permanent census, ap-
proved March 6, 1902.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Reference to the disbursing clerk in the second
paragraph of the above section of the Thirteenth Census act is no
longer appropriate because, as already explained, the office is no
longer in existence. Therefore, the wording of this sentence has been
changed as indicated above. - -
Mr. HERSEY. Was he put on another class of duties 7
Mr. SIEGEL. I think the explanation is that during the period
between taking one census and another the disbursements are made
by the disbursing clerk of the department, because then the Census
has about 600 employees, and at the other time 5,000, and naturally
the bureau would have to have one man to attend to the disburse-
ments. I think that offers the explanation. ‘. -
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rogers, have you any remarks to make on
that section ?
Mr. ROGERS. I have no remarks to make.
The CHAIRMAN. Have any of the other gentlemen present from the
Census Office anything to add in addition to that ? If not, we will
proceed to the next section.
SEc. 5. That during the decennial census period the annual compensation of the
officials of the Census Office shall be as follows: The Director of the Census, $7,500;
the assistant director, $5,000; three chief statisticians and the chief clerk, $4,000
each; three other chief statisticians and the geographer, $3,600 each; the disbursing
clerk, $3,250; the appointment clerk, $3,000; the chiefs of division, $2,500 each; the
private secretary to the director, $2,250; the statistical experts, $2,000 each; and the
stenographers provided for in section three of this act, $1,800 each.
Mr. SIEGEL. As I understand, these statistical experts are only
employed for a part of the time, and I do not think that the Gov-
ernſhent will be able to get those men for $2,000 a year. In other
words, they are only employed for a certain number of weeks.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rogers, have you any remarks to make in
connection with this section ?
Mr. ROGERs. The statistical experts here refer to the 20 named in
section 3. That class of statistical experts will be high-class clerks.
If you notice, I differentiate between the statistical experts and the
statisticians. You can not get the statisticians for $2,000. I am
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES. 71
of the opinion that they can not be had for less than the sums fixed
in this #. $3,600 and $4,000. There are only six of those. We
have five now. The men who have been working at $3,000 each
are leaving the census rapidly. They are doubling their salaries in
Some instances and receiving 50 per cent more in some instances
when they leave. These other gentlemen working at $3,000, in my
opinion, can not be retained during the decennial census at $3,000.
erefore I have asked that three of them be placed at $3,600 and
the three in charge of the three principal inquiries at $4,000 each,
which would be an increase of about 20 per cent, and those raised
from $3,000 to $4,000 it would be an increase of 33 per cent. That
is just the difference in the increase in the salaries of that class of
men. The 20 statistical experts are high-class clerks.
Mr. ASWELL. Will the proposed increase in the salaries of clerks
generally affect this question throughout the Government depart-
ments :
Mr. ROGERs. No, sir.
Mr. SIEGEL. These men will be receiving more than $2,000, and
will therefore not be affected, as I understand it.
Mr. ASWELL. I do not know what it will be limited to.
Mr. SIEGEL. The general talk has been that nobody above $2,000
is to get an increase. Is not that your understanding of the matter,
Judge'
- § HousTON. I think that is right. Mr. Rogers, what do you
think about being able to get the statistical clerks at $2,000?
Mr. ROGERs. Under normal conditions that class of statistical
clerks can be had at $2,000.
Mr. ALExANDER. Are the three chief statisticians and the chief
clerk, $4,000 each, in the classified service
Mr. ROGERs. Yes, sir.
Mr. ALExANDER. Do you think that in a time like this, when the
Nation is being taxed to the limit to pay the expenses of this war, that
these men should not continue in the service at the same rate of pay ?
Do you think that they would go out and accept temporary employ-
ment at an increased salary when they have a life job at $3,000 a year?
Mr. RogFRs. That is what is being done. Of the 563 employees on
the statutory force now of the Census Office, I have lost 124.
Mr. ALExANDER. If the war should cease tomorrow they would all
be coming back? &
Mr. ROGERs. They have permanent places. Of course, I did not
mean to say that all of the 124 secured permanent places. For
instance, there was a statistician in the Census Office receiving $3,000
who is now receiving $5,000 from the Tariff Commission. A chief of
a division at $2,000 in the Census Office went to the Shipping Board
Emergency Fleet Corporation and is now getting $5,000 a year.
He gets more than double what he got with me. Mr. Ellsworth,
who was the clerk I had assigned to accounts in my bureau, went to
the Council of National Defense and is now getting $3,600. , All three
of the men are just as permanently located as they would be if they
were in the Census Bureau, but they are getting twice the money they
got in the Census Bureau and more than twice the money in one
instance. Now, that class of men, gentlemen, are going to the Trea-
sury, are going to the War Department, and they are going to other
bureaus, and what their duty is in this time of the country's stress is
not a thing I can discuss with them.
72 FourTEENTH AND subsBQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSEs.
Mr. ALExANDER. But the point is that whenever the war ends they
are going to lose those jobs. , They are temporary jobs, and at the
close of the war the Council of National Defense will be a thing of the
past. The only point with me is that we are increasing the pay of
clerks in the Government service from $900 up to $2,000 because of
the increased cost of living. -
Mr. ROGERs. Yes.
Mr. ALExANDER. But you can not justify these increases on that
ground alone, because $3,000 or $4,000 a year will take care of a family
comfortably. It is not what we would like to do, but what I am
putting up to you is whether or not under all the circumstances, and
when there are increased demands in order to successfully prosecute
the war, we can justify these increases. That is what I want to put
up to you.
Mr. RogFRs. I would like to answer both of those points for you.
The transfers from my bureau have taken place in spite of all that I
can do, and if I have work to perform and men leave they must be
replaced with men whom I can obtain and——
Mr. ALExANDER (interposing). That is the fault of the other
departments.
Mr. RogFRs. I can not remedy that. Now then, another thing.
It is a fact beyond any question that the salary scale in the Census
Bureau is less than in any other bureau in the Department of Com-
merce or in any bureau in any other department of the Governmental
service in Washington. As long as such discrimination exists you
will not have equality in the Government service. I am free to say
that if you would put them all on an equal salary basis and make
things relatively equal, so that there would be no discrimination, I
could then say, “Gentlemen, you can not leave the service and it is
necessary for you to show your loyalty by staying in the bureau where
your services are most needed.”
Mr. As well. It seems to me very unfair for the Bureau of the
Census to be held down to lower salaries than any other bureau of
the Government, and if we can not control the other bureaus we
ought to take care of this bureau.
Mr. ROGERs. That is what I think.
The CHAIRMAN. Is not this true: That the increases that have
been granted to the men who have been taken out of your bureau
and put into these war bureaus—the Council of National Defense,
the Emergency Fleet Corporation and all the bureaus of that type—
are abnormal increases 7
Mr. RogFRs. That may be true.
The CHAIRMAN. If I am not mistaken, that procedure has been
very severely criticized on the floor as a policy that ought not to have
been adopted, and I think some steps have been taken to stop those
bureaus from granting such abnormal increases. The fact that the
legislation authorizing the establishment of these different war
councils or bureaus was rather loosely drawn permitted them to
indulge in such practices as you have referred to, taking men out of
one bureau at $2,500 and giving them $5,000. Now, we know, and
every fair-minded man must admit, that that was an abuse of
authority; that there was no justification for taking men and
doubling their salaries, especially when the men were willing to accept
these positions at lower salaries, and it occurs to me that all of this is
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES. 73
\
worthy of the thoughtful consideration of this committee—of course,
recognizing the necessity for the proper type of men; and it seems to
me that just because some of these war councils or bureaus have
doubled salaries that we ought not to follow in their wake or multiply
the wrong by doing it ourselves. In other words, I do not believe
that simply because some of these bureaus have done something
which, in my opinion, they should not have done that we ought to
come along and do just what we criticize them for doing.
Mr. As well. Take the Tariff Commission and the Federal Trade
Commission; they are not war councils; they are not war boards;
they are permanent boards, and they have taken some of these men.
Mr. SIEGEL. And the War-Risk Insurance Bureau is going to con-
tinue, as far as the soldiers are concerned.
Mr. ALEXANDER. I just wanted to get Mr. Rogers's view of these
matters so that we would have something on which to act.
Mr. Houston. I would like to call your attention to this fact:
I. presume the men who have been taken from your bureau had a
civil-service status. They were in the classified service, were they
not
Mr. Rogers. Yes, sir.
Mr. HousTON. Those men were eligible for transfer to any other
department 2
Mr. ROGERs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Houston. Which commission or bureau took Mr. Steuart 2
Mr. ROGERs. The Tariff Commission.
Mr. HOUSTON. When they wanted a man of his caliber and exper-
ience, they simply came to this bureau and said, “You have a man
here who is eligible for transfer to our department; we want the
use of his services there and we have a position that is worth $5,000,
and we want that man.” When a request is made under such
circumstances how can the Secretary of ºmmºdº well prevent the
transfer, and should he prevent it 2
Mr. SIEGEL. The question before us is not what has been done; the
sole question is this: Can Mr. Rogers get these new men in order to
properly perform the services which will be required for the salaries
mentioned here 2
Mr. ROGERs. I can not do that; neither can I retain the men I have
unless I do it arbitrarily. Let me say further that if I exercise that
arbitrary power and keep a man against his will and prevent him
having a transfer in the face of a large increase in salary, he feels
that I have done him an injustice.
Mr. As well. And you have.
Mr. ROGERs. And I have a disgruntled employee in my bureau; I
have a man who does not feel it is incumbent upon him to do his best,
and as long as the discrimination exists that now exists against the
Census Bureau, we will have that tendency to leave the bureau and
we will have a tendency not to enter the bureau, because you can not
get them to stay or to consider these low salaries. On that same
point let me say to you that the work I am asking you to provide
for in this bill, the Fourteenth Census, is rush work. We work night
and day; if it is urgent, we work on Sundays, and I suspect that the
statisticians do work on Sundays. The number of employees in the
Bureau of the Census during the decennial period will be greater
than in any bureau of the Government that I know of now. With
74 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
the volume of work and with the tremendous force I must organize
it is necessary for me to have a salary basis that will invite them to
consider it. The present salaries of the Census Bureau are based on
20 years ago. If you will permit me to do so, I will file data in con-
nection with that statement, such data furnishing comparisons with
the Twelfth Census and Thirteenth Census, of 10 and 20-years ago.
Mr. ALExANDER. I think it would be interesting to have that data
inserted in the record. -
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection that will be done.
(Said data follows:) .

- Thirteenth Twelfth
Present. Proposed. Census. Census.
Director---------------------------------------- $6,000 $7,500 $7,000 $7,500
Assistant director. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5,000 5,000 4,000
§ clerk. . . . . . . .(3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,500 4,000 2,500 2,800
Chief Statisticians (3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4,000
Chief Statisticians (3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - * * } 3,000 { 3,600 } 3,000 3,000
Geographer-- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,000 3,600 2,500 2, 500
Disbursing clerk. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,250 2,875 3,000
Appointment clerk. -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,000 2,500 2,500
Chiefs of division. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,000 2,500 2,000 2,000
Private Secretary to director... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,250 2,250 |. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Statistical experts. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,000 |..... ---------|- . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Stenographers----------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ----|-------------- 1,800 1,800 2,000
Stenographer. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 1,500 1,500 1, 500 |. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Mr. ALEXANDER. Have the men who have been transferred gone
into the classified service at this increased pay ? Have they gone
into other positions in the classified service
Mr. ROGERs. Many of them have, although many of them have
gone into private business. Since our last meeting I had an em-
ployee of the bureau ask permission to be transferred at a higher
salary to another bureau. I exercised the authority the chairman
referred to a while ago and declined to let him go. I gave him
patiently all the reasons that I had; that it was not best for the bureau
and that he could serve the Government in the position he had just
as well, or better, than where he proposed to go. He said to me
“If I am not allowed to do my best to support my wife and children
in the Government service I would rather go out among the manu-
factories, because I can do as much for the Government there as I
can do here, and I respectfully tender my resignation.” He was
employed at a salary, so I was informed, of $3,600, and I was paying
him $1,600.
Mr. NICHOLs. You did not accept his resignation'
Mr. ROGERs. I could not help myself; he just tendered it and
walked out, and that is the end of it when a man goes into private
business.
Mr. NICHOLs. I do not believe that any man in the Government
service should be limited or confined in his opportunity for advance-
ment.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Any man can resign if he wants to.
Mr. NICHOLs. Yes; but he should not be confined or limited in his
opportunities by keeping him in one department and he should not
be prevented from having a transfer to a better position that he may
have earned by his efficiency.
Mr. ALEXANDER. The men doing an equal grade of work should
receive the same pay. -
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSEs. 75
Mr. SIEGEL. The whole trouble is that there is no uniformity.
You walk into one office and you find a man, a stenographer, getting
$1,400; another man getting $1,100, and a third man getting $1,800.
You find that condition existing wherever you turn, and you find
this lack of uniformity. The Fitzgerald amendment of October 6
was supposed to meet the situation mentioned by Mr. Rogers. That
amendment provided that a man could not be transferred from one
department to another at an increased salary, and yet what is
being done? They obtain leaves of absence and then they go into
another department, and this is the condition you find existing in
the new bureaus, that instead of looking for new men they have
taken in a lot of old men and have disorganized various other de-
partments by doing that. Another thing is that in many of the
old departments the men are forced to work at the old wages while
the men in the new departments have been given large increases.
So, as I say, there is *. of uniformity.
Mr. ROGERS. In view of my statement a while ago about the
amount of work and character of work we had to do during the
decennial period I have a memorandum here before me that cor-
roborates that view. During the decennial census, which covers a
period of three years, the Population Division of the Bureau of the
Census will have about 1,800 employees; the Agricultural Division
1,000 employees, and the Manufactures Division 500 employees.
These divisions will then be much larger than many bureaus of the
Government service now employing clerks of similar character at
from 50 to 100 per cent increases. -
The CHAIRMAN. Under the civil-service rules and regulations can
a clerk in the Census Bureau, having a salary of $1,800, and you
had a #. paying $3,600, be increased from $1,800 to $3,600?
Mr. ROGERs. In the same bureau, you mean 2
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr. ROGERS. I think I can. I think I am stating the regulations
of the Civil Service Commission accurately when I say “yes.” That
has been done and I think it is consistent with the rules.
The CHAIRMAN. I thought these advancements were gradual; that
a clerk receiving a salary of $1,100, before he could receive $1,800,
would have to be granted an increase to $1,300, then an increase to
$1,600; that a clerk must go through all of those different gradations.
Mr. ROGERs. If I had a clerk in my bureau who had demonstrated
administrative ability and was competent to do supervisory work of
a division, I could promote him from clerk, at $1,800, to chief of
division, at $2,500, for the period of the decennial census.
The CHAIRMAN. I thought there was some restriction on that
power. I remember to have had several applications from men
receiving small salaries who asked to be advanced and given substan-
tial increases, and the information was that it could not be done.
Mr. ROGERs. That is the rule, Mr. Chairman——
Mr. As WELL (interposing). From one bureau to another ?
Mr. Rogers. That is the rule that governs, that promotions shall
be regular and uniform, but where one's chief makes a recommenda-
tion, after an investigation of what we call the efficiency records—
there is a card record kept continuously in the bureau showing a
man's proficiency and qualifications—that a man should be advanced,
76 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES.
and the director finds that he is a capable man for the services de-
sired, then the Civil Service Commission conforms to his recommenda-
tion.
The CHAIRMAN. Are these positions that the former employees of
the Census Bureau now hold in these newly created bureaus or coun-
cils in the classified service 2
Mr. ROGERs. Some of them are and some of them are not.
The CHAIRMAN. These clerks that you have mentioned as receiving
these very high salaries or large increases—are those positions in the
classified service . -
Mr. ROGERs. The secretary of the Tariff Commission I do not
believe is in the classified service. Mr. Steuart, to whom I referred
a while ago at $5,000, is not in the classified service; he is secretary
of the Tariff Commission. The man to whom I referred as getting
$1,800 in my bureau and now getting $3,600 is in the classified
SGI’VICe. “ -
Mr. FAIRFIELD. Have you a personnel in your bureau now capable
of taking these new positions through advancement 7
Mr. ROGERs. Some of them are.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. Do you expect to secure the heads of these divi-
sions and these statisticians from within your bureau ?
Mr. ROGERs. Some of them will be promoted.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. Your fear is that you can not retain them at those
salaries, as I understand it 2
Mr. ROGERs. In some instances, that can not be done.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. And you fear you will not be able to go outside
and call in men who are capable %
Mr. ROGERs. Substitues for these men, yes; that is the point.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. That is the situation ?
Mr. ROGERs. Yes. If I were permitted, we will say, to promote a
man from $1,800 to $2,500 to a position that deserved compensation
at $2,500, then I would need authority to appoint a substitute from
the outside for that man, provided there was no suitable employee in
the bureau who could be promoted.
Mr. LARSEN. I notice in section 5 that the scale of salaries provided
for the various officers has been increased upon the recommendation
of the committee and, as I understand, meets the approval of the
Director of the Census.
Mr. ROGERs. You mean the bureau committee drafting the bill ?
Mr. LARSEN. Yes. It occurs to me that the increases provided
in this section are adequate and ought to furnish a sufficient number
to do the work. ... I am not prepared to speak, perhaps, on all of those
increases, but take, for instance, the latter part of the section referring
to stenographers at $1,800 a year. I do know of my own knowledge
that I can supply any reasonable number, I think, of competent
Stenographers at $1,800 a year.
Mr. SIEGEL. I do not think there is any discussion about stenog-
raphers. -
Mr. LARSEN. It seems to me that as the chiefs of the various divi-
Sions and those gentlemen who have had the matter under considera-
tion have decided that the compensation named here is sufficient,
that we could pass on it now.
Mr. ALEXANDER. I do not care to express any opinion until I have
heard all of the information.
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSEs. 77
Dr. HILL. That does not refer to stenographers in general but to
the stenographers mentioned in section 3, which number only four.
The CHAIRMAN. The next is section 6:
SEC. 6. That in addition to the force hereinbefore provided for and to that authorized
by the legislative, executive, and judicial appropriation act for the fiscal year im-
mediately preceding the decennial census period, there may be employed in the
Census Office during the decennial census period, and no longer, as many clerks
with salaries at the rates of $1,920, $1,800, $1,680, $1,560, $1,440, $1,380, $1,320, $1,260,
$1,200, $1,140, $1,080, $1,020, $960, and $900; one engineer at $1,200 and two photostat
operators at $1,200 each; as many skilled laborers, with salaries at the rate of not less
than $720 nor more than $1,000 per annum; and as many messengers, assistant
messengers, messenger boys, watchmen, unskilled laborers, and charwomen as may
be found necessary for the proper and prompt performance of the duties herein
required; these additional clerks and employees to be appointed by the Director
of the Census: Provided, That the total number of such additional clerks with salaries
at the rate of $1,440 or more per annum shall at no time exceed one hundred and
fifty: Provided further, That employees engaged in the compilation or tabulation
of statistics by the use of mechanical devices may be compensated on a piece-price
basis to be fixed by the director.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rogers, have you anything to say on that
subject' In the former act the clerks were provided for by classes,
were they not :
Mr. RogFRs. Yes. As to the salaries of the clerks, it is in keeping
with a classification that was advocated and substantially recom-
mended several years ago by a committee on departmental methods
known as the Keep Committee. The only advantage there is about it
is that it makes more promotions within the given classes, that
is, classes one, two, three, and four. In the legislative, executive,
and judicial appropriation act they are classed as one, two, three,
and four, and class one is $1,200; the next salary above that is
$1,400.
Mr. HOUSTON. Is that No. 1 or No. 2 %
Mr. ROGERs. No. 2 is $1,400. You will observe an increase there
of $200 at one promotion and for one individual. You take the class
here at $1,260; that would be a promotion based on $5 per month;
$1,320 would be two years; for three years it would be $1,380; and
for four years $1,440. The promotions, then, would occur a step at
a time, and the clerk next to the vacancy would step up $5 a month,
and the clerk below him who was worthy of promotion would step
up $5 a month, and the promotions would be oftener and more con-
tinuous. I do not know that the sum would be any greater, but you
would distribute the money among more people and, as I say, the
promotions would come oftener. It is an encouragement all the
time to a step higher.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. It would have the effect of keeping up the spirit
of your force :
Mr. RogFRs. Yes; and that is all there is in it that I see is of
advantage.
The CHAIRMAN. Do any of you gentlemen desire to make a state
ment in regard to this section ?
Mr. ALExANDER. I should like to ask a question. You Strike out
the classification 4
Mr. Rogers. Yes, sir; and instead of inserting the classification it
would be these specified amounts. .
Mr. ALExANDER. With salaries at those rates. How many would
there be at $1,920 !
78 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
Mr. Rogers. The total number from $1,440 to $1,920, inclusive,
shall at no time exceed 150.
Mr. ALExANDER. That does not mean of all classes, but 150 in each
class.
Mr. RogFRs. The total number at $1,440 and above is limited
to 150.
Mr. ALExANDER. Where the salary is $1,440 and over there can
only be an increase of 150%
Mr. ROGERs. Yes, sir.
Mr. ALEXANDER. For all the classes; not each class?
Mr. ROGERs. Yes, sir; for all classes.
Mr. SIEGEL. It says “That the total number of such additional
clerks with salaries at the rate of $1,440 or more per annum shall at
no time exceed 150,” and so I think that would be the proper con-
struction.
The CHAIRMAN. This is a departure, is it?
Mr. ROGERs. Yes; a departure in the gradation of salary.
lº CHAIRMAN. In what other bureau has this departure taken
ace :
p Mr. RogFRs. I think the Post Office Department has adopted that
in a few instances. I have a list here of the bureaus that do that. I
will file it with the committee.
The CHAIRMAN. If you will, please. -
Mr. ROGERs. I will say that the Treasury Department has a total
number of 8, the Navy Department a total number of 15, the Interior
Department 1, and the Agricultural Department 49 on that basis.
he CHAIRMAN. This is something new in this kind of legislation ?
Mr. ROGERs. Yes. The Commerce Department has a total of two
and the Post Office Department has a number. I will file this
Statement. -
The statement submitted by Mr. Rogers follows:
LEGISLATIVE, ExECUTIVE, AND JUDICIAL APPROPRIATION ACT, 1917.
Eacecutive statutory salaries for clercical grades between $900 and $1,800 other than the
$900, grades $1,000, $1,200, $1,400 $1,600, and $1,800.
Treasury (total 8): No. of grades.
General Supply Committee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .----------------- I
Office of Supervising Architect............ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Office of Treasurer---------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Navy (total 15):
Office of the Secretary------------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Office of Judge Advocate General... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Bureau of Navigation-----------------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Office of Naval Intelligence------------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Bureau of Steam Engineering----------- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Bureau of Construction and Repair. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Bureau of Ordnance---------------------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Bureau of Supplies and Accounts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Bureau of Medicine and Surgery..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Bureau of Yards and Docks... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Division of Naval Militia Affairs.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Interior (total 1): Indian Office. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Agriculture (total 49):
Office of the Secretary-----------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Office of Farm Management............ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Bureau of Animal Industry.......... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Bureau of Plant Industry. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Forest Service. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES. 79
Agriculture (total 49)—Continued. No. of grades.
Bureau of Chemistry. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Bureau of Soils---------------------------------------------------------- l
Bureau of Biological Survey. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Bureau of Crop Estimates. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , as as a s = * * * * * * * * * * * * l
Library----------------------------------------------------------------- 2
States Relations Service--------------------------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I
Office of Public Roads and Rural Engineering. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
Bureau of Markets------. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 6
Enforcement of Insecticide Act. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . l
Federal Horticultural Board. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Commerce (total 2):
Bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .* * * * * * l
Coast and Geodetic Survey. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.
Post office: “In making readjustments hereunder, the salary of any clerk in any
class may be fixed by the Postmaster General at $100 below the salary fixed by
law for such class and the unused portion of such salary shall be used to in-
crease the Salary of any clerk in any class entitled thereto by not less than
$100 above the salary fixed by law for such class.”
The CHAIRMAN. Is this departure liable to create any confusion,
such as has been created by the appointments we have been discussing
recently in the war bureaus and will every other bureau and branch
of the other departments be wanting to adopt this and using it as a
precedent 7
Mr. RogFRs. Those who are trying it may possibly say that they
like it or do not like it. I do not know what they think about it.
The CHAIRMAN. The clerks would not be in favor of it unless there
was some advantage?
Mr. ROGERs. I think the only advantage to the clerks would be that
instead of promoting one clerk and giving him an increase of $200
in salary with maybe a clerk right by his elbow before he was pro-
moted getting the same salary, if that amount were divided, according
to this scheme, each would be benefited rather than only one being
benefited.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Do you recommend this salary increase in addi-
tion to the increase that may be provided by a general bill, or is it
the intent that if this increase is alſº the clerks provided for here
shall not participate in the increase provided for in a general bill?
Mr. SIEGEL. The clerks mentioned here will not participate in the
general increase, for the reason that this will not be the law until after
the enactment of the general legislation.
Mr. ALEXANDER. I do not know about that.
Mr. SIEGEL. In other words, the legislation which we pass will
apply to the men now employed by the Government.
Mr. ALEXANDER. And that will be for the fiscal year ending June
30, 1919. . -
Mr. SIEGEL. This does not start until July 1, 1919. Is not that
right, Mr. Rogers ? &
Mr. ROGERs. Yes, sir. While on that point, I should like to make
a brief statement which, perhaps, has no relation to this bill. The
chief clerk, who now receives $2,500, has under his supervision, in
round numbers, 1,500 employees—a field force of about 800 and about
625 in the bureau. He is the acting director in my absence. His
attention is given to the correspondence of the whole bureau and its
organization. We have a mechanical laboratory—that is, technically
speaking—that is turning out the census machinery to tabulate the
returns. In the decennial census period the chief clerk will be
80 FOURTEENTEL AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
acting director in the absence of the director and assistant director.
Since I have been there I have used two different men in that capacity.
Each has been offered $3,000 or more to leave the Census Office.
The CHAIRMAN. This increase is from $2,500 to $4,000.
Mr. RogFRs. Yes, sir. The recent chief clerk, Mr. Austin, could
have gone at $3,000 some time ago. . I lost him from the position of
chief clerk, where he was highly satisfactory and where I would have
been glad to have continued him, but he was offered more money
elsewhere and it seemed to me to be due him, and rather than see him
lost to the bureau I put him in charge of the division known as the
agricultural division, which is going to be a very important part of
the organization of the decennial census, and made his salary $3,000.
Mr. Hartley, who was the assistant chief clerk, had the same propo-
sition, and I had to make him a chief statistician in order to keep
him in the bureau. .
Mr. ALExANDER. You are addressing yourself to section 6 or sec-
tion 5 %
The CHAIRMAN. He is addressing himself to section 5, I think.
Mr. RogFRs. The question was brought up here, but it really re-
lates to section 5. It was brought up in connection with what was
said about these increases.
The present chief clerk, Mr. Fitzgerald, a most competent, ener-
getic, and loyal man, has been offered $3,000.
Mr. JUUL. By a private concern, or by one of the other depart-
ments -
Mr. RogFRs. To go to a department.
Mr. JUUL. Do I understand that there is a competitive system of
bidding going on among the departments in Washington for employees
with one department trying to cripple another department by over-
bidding it in salary'
Mr. RogFRs. I would put it in this form——
Mr. JUUI, (interposing). It is the fact, is it not ?
Mr. LARSEN. I should like to ask whether or not it is a fact that
a great deal of this confusuion that has been spoken about arises
from the fact that the employees themselves are seeking employment
in other departments than those in which they are working'
Mr. RogFRs. I know of nothing of that kind.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. I notice that the method of promotions from
$1,200 up to $1,440, or even lower, are by gradations that are not
based on percentages, as I understand, thus maintaining the equity
of the relation between the clerk and also maintaining the morale and
efficiency of the department.
Mr. RogFRs. I am perfectly willing to try that.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. It looks to me like a very good method.
Mr. NICHOLs. What is meant by “skilled laborers with salaries at
the rate of not less than $720 nor more than $1,000”!
Mr. RogFRs. The skilled laborers are a class of employees that take
a subclerical examination before the Civil Service Commission and
are employed in the bureau for more or less manual work that
requires some educational qualifications, and the men are usually
allowed to advance, after passing a civil-service examination, to a
clerkship.
Mr. NICHOLs. Is $720 sufficient remuneration for that service'
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES. 81
Mr. ROGERs. That is what they are getting now. -
Mr. SIEGEL. I assume that the salaries of the messengers, assistant
messengers, messenger boys, watchmen, unskilled laborers, and
charwomen must be provided for in some other part of the bill?
Mr. FITZGERALD. They are specifically † for by law.
Mr. SIEGEL. That answers the question. .
The CHAIRMAN. If there are no further remarks I will read section 7:
SEC. 7. That the additional clerks and other employees provided for by section six
shall be subject to such special test examinations as the Director of the Census may
prescribe, the said examinations to be conducted by the United States Civil Service
Commission, to be open to all applicants without regard to political party affiliations,
and to be held at such places in each State as may be designated by the Civil Service
Commission. Certifications shall be made by the Civil Service Commission upon
- request of the Director of the Census from the eligible registers so established, in con-
formity with the law of apportionment as now provided for the classified service,
in the order of rating: Provided, That the requirement as to conformity with the law
of apportionment shall not apply to messenger boys, unskilled laborers, and char-
women: Provided further, That hereafter all examinations of applicants for positions
in the Government service, from any State or Territory, shall be had in the State or
Territory in which such applicant resides, and no person shall be eligible for such
examination or appointment unless he or she shall have been actually domiciled in
such State or Territory for at least one year previous to such examination: And pro-
vided further, That no person afflicted with tuberculosis shall be apppointed and that
each applicant for appointment shall accompany his or her application with a certifi-
cate of health from some reputable physician: And provided further, That in no in-
stance shall more than one person be appointed from the same family: And provided
further, That when the exigencies of the service require, the director may appoint
for temporary employment not exceeding six months’ duration from the aforesaid list
of eligibles those who, by reason of residence or other conditions, are immediately
available; and may also appoint for not exceeding six months’ duration persons
having had previous experience in operating mechanical appliances in census work
whose efficiency records in operating such appliances are satisfactory to him, and
may accept such records in lieu of the civil-service examination: And provided further,
That employees in other branches of the departmental classified service who have
had previous experience in census work may be transferred without examination to
the Census Office to serve during the whole or a part of the decennial census period,
and at the end of such service the employees so transferred shall be eligible to appoint-
ment to positions in any department held by them at the date of transfer to the
Census Office without examination: And provided further, That during the decennial
census period and no longer the Director of the Census may fill vacancies in the per-
manent force of the Census Office by the promotion or transfer of clerks or other
employees employed on the temporary force authorized by section six of this act:
And provided further, That at the expiration of the decennial census period the term
of service of all employees so transferred and of all other temporary officers and
employees appointed under the provisions of this act shall terminate, and such officers
and employees shall not be eligible to appointment or transfer into the classified
service of the Government by virtue of their examination or appointment under this
aCt.
Mr. HELM. Have you any remarks? º tº ºr
Mr. Rogers. That is practically the old act. There is nothing in
it which I consider very important. sº
Mr. SIEGEL. I should like to call your attention to the language on
page 5, beginning in line 13, which reads as follows:
Provided further. That hereafter all examinations of applicants for positions in the
Government service, from any State or Territory, shall be had in the State or Ter-
ritory in which such applicant resides, and no person shall be eligible for such exam-
ination or appointment unless he or she shall have been actually domiciled in such
State or Territory for at least one year prevous to such examination.
I think last week we passed some bill in the House which had
previously passed the Senate, eliminating that proviso. º
The CHAIRMAN. That must have been applicable to a particular
kind of work under that bill.
82 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES.
Mr. SIEGEL. No; it applied to all bills, for the reason that any
number of people came to Washington from all over the country to
take examinations and when they got here they were told “You
must return to your own State (hundreds of miles away) to take the
examination.” There is no reason for that provision going in nowa-
days. 4.
The CHAIRMAN. I think so.
Mr. RogFRs. The only reason wé had for putting that in was that
it was general legislation.
Mc. SIEGEL. The papers are not examined in any particular part
of the country, the papers are all examined in Washington.
The CHAIRMAN. The examinations are held in the different States?
Mr. SIEGEL. Yes, sir; but the papers are examined here. There is
no reason in the world why a person, for instance, residing——
The CHAIRMAN (interposing). The papers are rated here, not
examined.
Mr. SIEGEL. The ratings are made here. Therefore, it is immaterial
as to where a man takes the examination.
The CHAIRMAN. I think so.
Mr. SIEGEL. What difference does it make
The CHAIRMAN. Everybody in Washington would have the jobs.
What would be the situation with regard to Massachusetts, Kentucky,
or any other State?
Mr. SIEGEL. They would have the same chance as they have now.
The CHAIRMAN. They would have to come to Washington in order
to take the examination º
Mr. SIEGEL. No.
Mr. ALExANDER. This has been the law all the time?
Mr. SIEGEL. No; it has recently been changed.
The CHAIRMAN. But it is peculiar, so far as this bill is concerned.
Mr. LARSEN. Was it a general law which passed last week of which
you speak?
Mr. SIEGEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Houston. I want to say that it has always occurred to me
that that was an unnecessary provision of law. think this idea of
the quota of each State being held intact and that the quota of each
State be scrupulously observed in appointments is all right; but
why it is that a party who happens to be in Washington City and
who wants to take a civil-service examination should be compelled
to go back home, I do not know. I have had several instances of
that kind from my district.
Mr. SIEGEL. That is the idea.
Mr. Houston. If you keep the quota of each State all right, what
s hº necessity for requiring that the examination be held in the
tate
The CHAIRMAN. There is an exigency proviso. The director is
authorized to make the appointments when there is an exigency.
Mr. SIEGEL. After they get on the eligible list.
Mr. Housto N. The residence is all right, and when they fill the
places on the eligible list from the State of Kentucky, they have to
be Kentuckians, and that they have a domicile there and have a
residence there, but the provision that simply requires a party who,
happens to be in Washington to go back home in order to take an
examination always did seem to me to be a useless thing.
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES. 83
The CHAIRMAN. I do not know as to the condition resulting from the
war, but prior to this war period Washington was composed of 80 per
cent of departmental employees—people who had drifted here from
time to time. They are people who are looking for employment in
the departments. I have had people come to me who have not been
in Kentucky for 25 years. They have been going around from one
department to another—they are people who make a profession out
of jobs in Washington. They claim to come from Tennessee or
Georgia or Indiana or Kentucky, but they do not know what the
State looks like.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. I had an experience in point there. The other
day a lady came to my office and told my secretary that she was
from the town from which he comes. He looked at her—she not
knowing the town he came from-and said “I am from that town
myself.” She was very much abashed and said that she had not
been there for 35 years.
Mr. SIEGEL. That does not affect the proposition.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. Not at all.
Mr. SIEGEL. Because after the examination has taken place in
Milwaukee or New York or Chicago the papers are all sent here for
rating.
Mr. ALEXANDER. That is true. -
Mr. SIEGEL. What objection is there to a man in Jersey City going
over to New York to take the examination, instead of requiring hi
to go 25 or 30 miles to Trenton or some other town in New Jersey,
or if a man happened to be in Washington, what is the objection ?
The ratings are the same. Why can he not take the civil-service
examination right in Washington &
Mr. ALEXANDER. Where is there anything in this section that pro-
hibits that ? -
Mr. SIEGEL. Right here.
Mr. ALEXANDER. Please read it.
Mr. SIEGEL. Beginning in line 13 on page 5:
Provided further, That heareafter all examinations of applicants for positions in the
Government service, from any State or Territory, shall be had in the State or Terri-
tory in which such applicant resides, and no person shall be eligible for such exam-
ination or appointment unless he or she shall have been actually domiciled in such
State or Territory for at least one year previous to such examination.
Mr. ALEXANDER. I think that is pretty good law. The people of
the District of Columbia, Virginia, and Maryland have obtained
* in the Government service out of all proportion to
their quotas. Here, there is no question about that. For instance,
in the instance cited by Mr. Fairfield, that woman claimed that she
was a resident of Indiana when she had not been there for 35 years.
They may claim that they are residents of Kentucky, New York, or
Missouri, and under this provision they will have to furnish proof for
that purpose. I am dead opposed to that.
Mr. SIEGEL. I do not object to your desire to have a person a resi-
dent of the State, but what I do object to is that a man in Jersey
City or some other place, with an examination being held in New
York, or who happens to be in Washington, is required to take the
same examination at some place probably 75 or 100 miles away,
when the examination is the same all over the country.
43768–18—PT 3 2
84 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES.
The CHAIRMAN. Take the State of Kentucky. I notice examina-
tions are being held there from time to time at six or seven or eight
different places, at railroad centers, and persons looking for employ-
ment go to those places and take the examination. They do not
complain because they have to take the examination in Lexington
or Ashland or Louisville or Bowling Green or Middlesboro or Paducah.
The examinations are held at different points and at convenient
places. . And you get some new blood in here to take the places of
these old, superannuated clerks who have been hanging around
Washington for many years, like Mr. Fairfield's constituents, and I
have some of them myself. There is a lady who has not been in
Kentucky, in my opinion, for 30 years, and yet she is all the time
dingdonging about some appointment and, to my mind, she is too old
to have one. If you hold these examinations back in the States
you will get some new blood in here, and when we go into these depart-
ments we will not see these old, superannuated clerks.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. I think that the District of Columbia, for its bona
fide citizens, ought to have its quota. -
The CHAIRMAN. The District gets its quota, don’t fret about that.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. But they should take their examinations here as
having come from the District.
The CHAIRMAN. If you will refer to the record you will find that
the District gets its full quota and maybe more.
Mr. ALEXANDER. And they are now endeavoring to open the doors
so that they can get 2,000 or 3,000 more in Washington.
The CHAIRMAN. I can see the necessity for that provision, but do
not get it into your head that these people around Washington and
the surrounding country here do not get what is coming to them.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. I think we should put the District of Columbia on
a quota, and then if they did not hold to that there could be a whole-
sale dismissal.
The CHAIRMAN. I presume the director should have a little leeway
there. ---
Mr. ALEXANDER. As Judge Houston said, if persons are in Wash-
ington temporarily and want to take the examination, I do not see
why they should return to their own States to take the examinations.
Mr. MILLER. Is there not a certain advantage in taking this
examination as early as you can Ž I live in a State most remote
from the capital. Suppose one of my constituents comes down to
Washington and takes an examination here or goes to New York,
the rest of them remaining in Seattle, 3,000 miles away, and taking
the examination there. Now, the one coming to Washington and
taking the examination here will have an advantage over those out
in Seattle, who will have to wait until there is an examination out
there, while the one who is here works in, as I understand it. Is
not that right, Mr. Rogers ? e
Mr. Roge:Rs. The appointment would be made on the rating made
before the commission.
Mr. MILLER. You have examinations more often in Washington
than in Seattle, do you not ?
Mr. RogFRs. I understand the examinations are held at the same
time all over the country. -
Mr. MILLER. But if a constituent comes from Seattle and takes
the examination here he would have an advantage over the fellow
who waited and took the examination out there'

FOURTEENTEI AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES. 85
Mr. RogFRs. For temporary work the man in Seattle would not
come on at all.
Mr. SIEGEL. Is it not a fact that all examination papers are rated
in Washington, and that all of the papers must come here before
they are rated ?
Mr. ROGERs. Yes, sir.
Mr. SIEGEL. And those you pick up for temporary work are on
the list of eligibles?
Mr. ROGERs. The change from 60 days to 6 months is in order to
enable us to pick up men for temporary service as quickly as possible.
Mr. Houston. The spirit of the law and the intent of the law is
that these appointments shall be divided between the States accord-
ing to population, and what we are trying to do is to provide that
the District shall not get more than its quota, and that none of the
States shall get more than the quota to which they are entitled.
The only thing to do is to provide that each State shall get its quota
and no more, but why go to the trouble of going back to the States
in order to take the examinations, as was the case with two people
from my district who were here and wanted to take the examination.
They had to go back home to do it. Nothing was accomplished by
that except to put those two girls to the expense of $75 in going and
returning. .
Mr. MILLER. Did not those two young ladies come to Washington
to take the examination thinking thereby they would get in 2
Mr. HousTON. I can not answer that question. They came here
to get positions; they came to get positions in the Government
service and thought, perhaps, they could get them without a civil-
Service examination. A great many do come here with that idea
and do get into some branches of the service. They came here for
the purpose of getting a position and they wanted to take the civil-
Service examination and have a civil-service status. Of course,
I had to explain to them the exact situation and they had to go back
home in order to take the examination. sº
Mr. LARSEN. Could we not obviate this by a rule something like
this: That a person desiring to take an examination here produce
before the Civil Service Commission or the examining commission in
Washington a certificate from the county in which they reside setting
forth that they had resided in that county during the last six months,
and that when they produced such a certificate, to the effect that
they were bona fide residents and citizens of that district and country,
they be permitted to take the examination here. Unless something
like that is done they ought not to be permitted to do it. I notice
that no person afflicted with tuberculosis shall be appointed ?
Mr. RogFRs. Yes, sir.
Mr. LARSEN. Why is it limited to tuberculosis?
Mr. RogFRs. It was in the old act, and it was considered
Mr. LARSEN (interposing). Why should it not include other con-
tagious or infectious diseases?
Mr. RogFRs. The provision about appointing persons afflicted with
tuberculosis was in the old act. If you were to include communic,
able diseases you would have to define them, and at the time this
was written into the law the public mind was being particularly
attracted to the so-called white plague; everybody was excited, and
legislation was enacted to prevent the appointment of persons
afflicted with tuberculosis. *
86. FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. We should be very careful about that, because
we might get into interminable difficulty and local situations that
would be dangerous. º
The CHAIRMAN. The next is section 8:
SEC. 8. That the Fourteenth Census shall be restricted to inquiries relating to
population, to agriculture, to manufactures, and to mines and quarries. The schedules
relating to population shall include for each inhabitant the name, place of abode,
relationship to head of family, color, sex, age, conjugal condition, place of birth,
place of birth of parents, nationality or mother tongue of all persons born in foreign
countries, nationality or mother tongue of parents of foreign birth, number of years
in the United States, citizenship, occupation, whether or not employer or employee,
whether or not engaged in agriculture, school attendance, literacy, and tenure of
home, and the name and address of each blind or deaf and dumb person.
The schedules relating to agriculture shall include name, color, Sex, and country
of birth of occupant of each farm, tenure, acreage of farm, acreage of woodland, value
of farm and improvements, value of farm implements, number of live stock on farms,
ranges, and elsewhere, and the acreage of crops and the quantities of crops and other
farm products for the year ending December thirty-first next preceding the enumera-
tion. Inquiries shall be made as to the quantity of land reclaimed by irrigation and
drainage and the crops produced; also as to the location and character of irrigation
and drainage enterprises, and the capital invested in such enterprises.
The schedules of inquiries relating to manufactures and to mines and quarries shall
include the name and location of each establishment; character of organization,
whether individual, corporate, or other form; character of business or kind of goods
manufactured; amount of capital actually invested; number of proprietors, firm
members, copartners and officers, and the amount of their salaries; number of em-
ployees and the amount of their wages; cost of materials used in manufactures; prin-
cipal miscellaneous expenses; quantity and value of products; time in operation
during the year; character and quantity of power used; and character and number of
machines employed. *.
The census of manufactures and of mines and quarries shall relate to the year ending
December thirty-first, next preceding the enumeration of population, and shall be
confined to manufacturing establishments and mines and quarries which were in
active operation during all or a portion of that year. The census of manufactures
shall furthermore be confined to manufacturing establishments conducted under
what is known as the factory system, exclusive of the so-called nieghborhood, house-
hold, and hand industries.
Whenever he shall deem it expedient, the Director of the Census may charge the
collection of these statistics upon special agents or upon detailed employees, to be .
employed without respect to locality. .
The form and subdivision of inquiries necessary to obtain the information under the
foregoing topics shall be determined by the Director of the Census. -
Have you any remarks to make in connection with that section,
Mr. Rogers? -
Mr. ROGERs. As I understand it, it has been decided to take the
full census of population, agriculture, mines and quarries, and manu-
factures. The language here is very similar to that used heretofore.
I do not know whether you care to go into the details of every
schedule under these subjects, but if not I can file a brief statement,
giving the scope of the Federal census and also a statement showing
the growth of census inquiries. -
(Said statements follow:)
SCOPE OF THE FEDERAL CENSUS.
Section 8 restricts the Fourteenth Census to the four subjects named in section 1
and defines the inquiries that shall be made regarding each of these subjects. In
discussing the provision of Section 1 which relates to the scope of the proposed decen-
nial census in 1920 and each 10 years thereafter, the question was raised as to the
reason why the Fourteenth Census should include a census of agriculture, manufac-
tures, and mines, and quarries in addition to the enumeration of population required
by Article I, Section 2, of the Constitution. The general statement made then referred
to the necessity of securing, through the medium of the decennial census in 1920, full
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES. 87
information as to the population and industrial resources of the country, even though
to meet the immediate necessities of the war more or less complete surveys of the
agricultural, manufacturing, and mineral industries might be taken meanwhile by
the various war agencies, acting independently or through the medium of the Census
Bureau, as the case might be. It was the purpose then to make it clear that in any
event there would be no duplication of work in 1920, and that the complete and com-
prehensive information then collected by the decennial census agents would be
greatly needed, whether the war was still going on or not.
No mention was made, however, of the fact—and a highly important fact in this
connection—that the desire to have the decenuial census include statistics other than
those directly connected with the enumeration of population was not only manifest
in the earliest period of our national existence, but because increasingly so at each
successive decennial census until the exceedingly simple enumeration of population
in 1790 had developed in 1880 and again in 1890 into a very encyclopedia of statistical
information, covering fully 20 different subiects of inquiry; and it was because of
this great and perhaps undue expansion of the work at the decennial census period
that the Twelfth Census was limited to four subjects—population, agriculture, manu-
factures, and mortality—and provision was made after the completion of the decennial
work for the collection of statistics relating to various special subjects which thereto-
fore had been carried on simultaneously with the work pertaining to the four main
subjects above mentioned. There was constant inquiry concerning the population
at the first six enumerations and this inquiry was supplemented by attempts to secure
additional data concerning manufactures in 1810 and 1820, and concerning mining,
commerce, agriculture, manufactures, fisheries, and schools in 1840. The inquiries
relating to these subjects were made, however, on schedules prescribed, in most cases,
by the several census acts, in which the detail required was expressly stipulated and
beyond which no tabulation or combinations of facts were possible, owing to the
manner in which the returns were required to be made. But, beginning with the
census of 1850, an individual return was required; that is, the detailed enumeration
was made with respect to each living inhabitant, each decedent, each farm, and each
establishment of productive industry. -
Although a material modification and extension of the census inquiries was had
at the censuses of 1850, 1860, and 1870, taken under the same general provisions of
law, the great, and what is fair to be termed the extraordinary, increase in the scope
of the census did not come until 1880 and 1890, when, instead of the census being
limited to but five or six schedules, comprising only about 150 details, there were at
each of these two censuses more than 200 general and special schedules, relating to
Very many subjects and comprehending several thousand inquiries or details. At
the census of 1900, therefore, the decennial work was limited to inquiries relating to
population, mortality, agriculture, and manufactures, but provision was made after
the completion of the decennial work for the collection of statistics relating to various
special subjects, such as the insane, feeble-minded, deaf, dumb, and blind; crime,
pauperism, and benevolence; deaths and births in registration areas; social statistics
of cities; public indebtedness, valuation, taxation, and expenditures; religious bodies;
electric light and power, telegraph and telephone business; transportation by water,
express business, and street railways; and mines, mining, and minerals.
The act of March 6, 1902, which provided for a permanent census bureau kept in
force the provisions of the Twelfth (ensus act so far as the decennial census work was
concerned, but in section 7 of the permanent census act provision was made for the
collection of statistics covering many special subjects similar to that contained in
the decennial census act; and this section of the permanent cnesus act, as amended
by the act of June 7, 1906, is still in force, and governs in general the work of the
Census Bureau in the intervals between decennial censuses.
By the terms of the Thirteenth Census act, the decennial census work was also
limited to four subjects—population, agriculture, manufactures, and mines and
quarries—and these same subjects are again provided for in the proposed Fourteenth
Census act.
Detailed and precise information regarding the scope of each decennial census
from 1790 to 1890, inclusive, is contained in a publication entitled “History and
Growth of the United States Census, ’’ prepared for the Senate (ommittee on the
Census, and a condensed summary (including the censuses of 1900 and 1910) showing
the increasing number of subjects of inquiry at each successive decennial census has
been prepared therefrom, and is submitted for the information of the Committee.
‘See statement appended, entitled ‘‘ Growth of Census Inquiries.”)
88 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
GROWTH OF CENSUS INQUIRIES.
FIRST CENSUs, 1790.
The First Census, taken in 1790, related to population only. It was taken by the
marshals of the several judicial districts under the terms of an act approved March 1,
1790, and a return was required of the number of inhabitants, omitting Indians not
taxed, and distinguishing free persons, including those bound to service for a term
of years, from all others. This separation in itself was sufficient to meet all the con-
stitutional requirements of the enumeration, but the act also required the marshals
to distinguish the sex and color of free persons and free males of 16 years and upward
from those under that age, in the latter case, undoubtedly, for the purpose of ascer-
taining the military and industrial strength of the country. The inquiries in 1790
related to but six items, and called for the name of the head of the family and the
number of persons in each family of the following descriptions: Free white males of
16 years and upward; free white males under 16 years; free white males; all other
free persons; slaves.
SEcond CENsus, 1800.
The scope of the Second Census differed from the first only in an extension of the
age distribution of the free white element of the population and in that this distribu-
tion by age was made to apply to females as well as males. An effort was made,
however, by the members of two learned societies, previous to the enactment of the
law governing the Second Census, to make the enumeration of 1800 the vehicle for
ascertaining sundry facts highly interesting and important to society, and for that
purpose presented to Congress two memorials, in which in brief it was suggested that
inquiries be made as to the number of births; number of persons, by sex, in each of
various specified age groups; number of native and foreign born citizens and of aliens;
number of persons in each of certain general classes of occupations; and number of
married, single, and widowed persons. These memorials—one from the American
Philosophical Society, signed by Thomas Jefferson as its president, and the other
from the Connecticut Academy of Arts and Sciences, signed by Timothy Dwight as
its president—were communicated to the Senate January 10, 1800, and were referred
to a committee to whom the preparation of a census law had already been intrusted,
but no action regarding them was apparently taken.
THIRD CENSUs, 1810.
The schedule of inquiries relating to population in 1810 called for exactly the same
information as at the census of 1800, but by a later provision of law an attempt was
made, for the first time, to gather industrial statistics. The effort, however, was not
particularly successful. No schedule was prescribed by the law, nor was the nature
of the inquiries to be made indicated, but were wholly subject to the discretion of the
Secretary of the Treasury.
FourTH CENsus, 1820.
The schedule of inquiries in 1820 called for the same age distribution of the free
white population, male and female, as in 1800 and 1810, with the addition in 1820 of
the number of free white males between 16 and 18 years. It also provided for a sepa-
ration of the number of free colored persons and of slaves, respectively, by sex, accord-
ing to four age groups, with a statement of the number of “all other persons, except
Indians not taxed.” An inquiry was also contained in the schedule, for the first time,
as to the number of foreigners not naturalized, and the number of persons (including
slaves) engaged in agriculture, commerce, and manufactures. Not deterred by the
poor success of the attempt to secure industrial statistics in 1810, this requirement was
again made a part of the law of 1820. *
FIFTH CEN sus, 1830.
Prior to the passage of the act under which the Fifth Census was taken, President
Adams, in his fourth annual message to Congress, dated December 28, 1828, suggested
the desirability of commencing the enumeration from an earlier period of the year
than the 1st of August, and, also, that the columns of age, hitherto confined to a few
periods should be extended, commencing from infancy, in intervals of 10 years, to
the utmost boundaries of life. Changes embodying these suggestions were made in
the census act, particularly as to the date for commencing the census, which was
changed to the first of June, instead of the first Monday in August as theretofore. The
FOURTEENTEL AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES. 89
inquiries at this census related to population only, the provision for the collection of
industrial statistics being omitted, and for the first time a printed schedule of uniform
size was used. It called for a division of the free white population of each sex accord-
ing to 13 subdivisions of age; a classification of slaves and free colored persons, respect-
ively, of each sex according to six subdivisions of age; the number of white persons .
and of “slaves and colored persons” who were deaf and dumb or blind; and a state-
#. jºr white persons only, of the number of foreigners not naturalized, the same as
in 1820.
*SixTH CENsus, 1840.
The schedule used in 1840 called for the same subdivisions of the population as to
color, sex, and age as at the census of 1830, together with the inquiry as to the number
of white persons and of free colored and slaves who were deaf and dumb or blind. In
addition, a further inquiry was made for each of these two classes of the population as
to the number of insane and idiots, who were, respectively, at public or private charge,
and also as to the number of persons in each family employed in each of seven general
classes of occupations. The law also provided for a census of all persons receiving
pensions from the United States for Revolutionary or military services, stating their
names and ages, and also all such information in relation to mines, agriculture, com-
merce, manufactures, and schools, as will exhibit a full view of the pursuits, industry,
education, and resources of the country.
The census of 1840 brought to a close the first period of census taking in this country,
the leading facts of which can be briefly summarized. The first six censuses were
limited practically to population, so far as any real results were concerned, although
at three of these censuses, those of 1810, 1820, and 1840, an effort was made to extend
the scope of the census to include statistics of industry. These efforts were of little
avail, however, and the results, although printed, have but little value. With respect
to population, the inquiries had to do almost wholly with the color, sex, and age of the
population, to which were added at some of the later periods two or three inquiries
concerning the number of persons engaged in a few of the great classes of occupations,
the number of foreigners not naturalized, and the number of persons who were blind,
deaf and dumb, or mentally defective. These items of inquiry were gathered in con-
nection with the name of the head of the family only and showed simply the number
of persons in each family, according to the various specifications of age, sex, and color
prescribed by the several census acts.
SEVENTH CENsus, 1850.
The first action toward making provision for the Seventh Census was taken at the
session of Congress which convened in 1848, when it was proposed to use the schedules
of 1840 again, but to eliminate therefrom what were termed the objectionable inquiries.
This proposition met with a firm protest both in and out of Congress, and a census
board was established, composed of the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, and
the Postmaster General. The Senate at its next session also appointed a special com-
mittee to make provision for the census, and thris committee began its work without
much reference to the plans of the census board already created. This board, however,
in the course of its work called into consultation many eminent statisticians, and its
plan was afterwards submitted to the Senate committee, by whom its principal features
were adopted. Six schedules were prescribed by the census act, relating, respectively,
to (l) free inhabitants, (2) slave inhabitants, (3) mortality, (4) productions of agri-
culture, (5) products of industry, and (6) social statistics, calling in the latter case for
information concerning the following subjects: Valuation of estate; annual taxes;
colleges, academies, and schools; seasons and crops; libraries; newspapers and peri-
odicals; religion; pauperism; crime; and wages. -
The scope of the census was thus extended materially, and, so far as the return of
population was concerned, the method of enumeration underwent an important
change. At the census of 1850 the several inquiries with respect to the free popula-
tion were made concerning each person enumerated, while for the slave population a
detailed statement of the color, sex, and age of each slave enumerated, in connection
with other numerical data, was obtained for the first time, instead of, as in the preced-
ing censuses, a return being made of the number of each of the various classes of
persons in each family, in connection with the name of the head of the family only.
EIGHTH ( EN sus, 1860.
The Eighth ( ensus was taken in accordance with the provisions of law which
governed the taking of the census of 1850. the same schedules of inquiry being used
as at that census, with a few additions and extensions.
90 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES.
NINTH CENsus, 1870.
The Ninth Census was also taken in accordance with the terms of the law of 1850,
although an effort was made to have new legislation effected for the government
of its operations. It was recognized that the law of 1850 was entirely inadequate
to meet the changed conditions under which the census of 1870 would have to be
taken, and a special committee of the House of Representatives in the second session
of the Forty-first Congress was therefore charged with the duty of considering the
census needs, and required to report as to what legislation, if any, was essential to
the proper taking of the Ninth ( ensus. This special committee, under, the able
leadership of Gen. Garfield, made a careful study of census methods, and the results
of their deliberations were presented in an extended report, in which a comprehensive
plan for taking the cemsus was submitted in the form of a bill, accompanied by an
exhaustive exposition of the entire subject of the census here and abroad. This
report was made January 18, 1870, and the bill was passed by the House of Repre-
sentatives but was defeated in the Senate. The census of 1870, therefore, was carried
on under the law of 1850, but several additions and alterations were made in the
schedules of inquiry, and by the omission of the former slave schedule several addi-
tional inquiries were made possible.
TENTH CENsus, 1880.
An effort was made to have a national census taken in 1875, not only on account of
the long interval between the decennial enumerations, causing the information
gathered at one decennial period to become of little practical value after the expira-
tion of the first half of the 10-year period, but also because it would constitute a noble
monument to the progress of the United States during the first century of its political
life. This effort for a quinquennial census had no practical result, however, and no
further action was had with respect to the census until the necessity of preparing for
the Tenth Census was brought to the attention of Congress, in 1878. The initiatory
step was taken by the introduction of a bill May 20, 1878, but this was without praç-
tical result. Another bill was introduced January 7, 1879, but a substitute for this
bill was reported later in the month, and the same bill was reported the same day
in the Senate. This bill, substantially as reported, became a law March 3, 1879, but
supplementary legislation, involving important amendments essential to the proper
taking of the census, was had April 20, 1880. The census of 1880 was taken, therefore,
in accordance with the provisions of these acts, by which a radical departure was made
in the methods of enumeration and the scope of the census was increased to ency-
clopedic proportions.
The entire inadequacy of the machinery provided by the law of 1850, under which
the Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth censuses had been taken, had been made clearly appar-
ent, especially at the Ninth Census period, and the work of supervising the enumera-
tion, heretofore charged upon the judicial marshals, was by the new law intrusted to a
body of officers specially chosen for the work, to be known as supervisors of census,
to be appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate; but the total number
was not to exceed 150. This was more than twice the number of judicial marshals,
and provided the means for securing not only a higher degree of local knowledge on
the part of the supervisor, of great value in the subdivision of his district, but also a
closer and more direct supervision of the actual work of enumeration.
There were five general schedules of inquiry authorized, relating to population,
agriculture, manufactures, mortality, and social statistics, as at the census of 1870,
but several changes and additions were made in them in accordance with the require-
ments of the census acts. The law also provided for the collection of detailed informa-
tion as to the condition and operations of railroad corporations, incorporated express
companies, and telegraph companies, and of life, fire, and marine insurance com-
panies, and, in addition, for the collection of statistics of the population, industries,
and resources of Alaska with such fullness as should seem expedient and practicable,
and to make an enumeration, through special agents or other means, of all Indians
not taxed within the jurisdiction of the United States, with such information as to
their condition as could be obtained.
ELEv ENTH CENsus, 1890.
The Eleventh Census was taken under the provisions of the act of March 1, 1889,
which was modeled upon the act which governed the work of the census of 1880.
It was not contemplated originally to make the census of 1890 quite so comprehensive
as its predecessor, but, in effect, the same schedules of inquiries were authorized and,
in addition, provision was made for an enumeration, by means of a special schedule, of
Fou RTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSEs. 91
the name, organizations served in, and length of service of surviving Union soldiers,
Sailors, and marines who had served in the War of the Rebellion, and the widows of
Such as had died; for an inquiry on the population schedule as to the number of negroes,
mulattoes, quadroons, and octoroons, and for the collection of the statistics of and
relating to the recorded indebtedness of private corporations and individuals. The
act of February 22, 1890, also called for the number of persons who live on and culti-
Vate their own farms, the number who live in their own homes, the number who hire
their farms and homes, the number of farms and homes which are under mortgage,
the amount of mortgage debt, the value of the property mortgaged, and whether such
farms and homes have been mortgaged for the whole or part of the purchase money
for the same or for other purposes, and the rates of interest paid upon mortgage loans;
and for the accomplishment of this purpose, an appropriation of $1,000,000 was made,
in addition to the regular census appropriations. The number of farms and homes
owned and hired, and of those owned the number free and mortgaged were obtained
by the addition of five inquiries on the population schedule, while the supplemental
information as to the value of the property so mortgaged, the amount of the mortgage
debt, and the object for which the debt was incurred, was obtained by correspondence
and Special agents. The information concerning the recorded indebtedness of private
corporations and individuals was abstracted by special agents from the public records
in every county in the United States.
The schedules of inquiry intrusted to the census enumerators consisted of the
four general schedules relating to population, agriculture, manufactures, and mor-
tality, eight supplemental schedules calling for special information concerning the
defective, dependent, and delinquent classes, and the special schedule relating to
Union survivors of the war of the rebellion. The law further provided, as in 1880,
for the employment of experts and special agents in makign a special enumeration
of all Indians living within the jurisdiction of the United States, and a spearat
census of the population and resources of Alaska. -
Twelfth CENsus, 1900.
The census of 1900 was taken in accordance with the provisions of the act of March
3, 1899, by which the decennial census work was restricted to inquiries relating to
population, to mortality, and to the products of agriculture and of manufacturing
and mechanical establishments; and it was also stipulated in the act that the reports
relating to these four subjects should be published not later than July 1, 1902. By
the act of Feoruary 1, 1900, the census enumerators were also required to secure,
On a separate schedule, the name, sex, age, and post-office address of all persons
who were either blind or deaf (including those who were deaf and dumb) and also,
on another schedule, a report concerning live stock not on farms or ranges. The
Twelfth Census act also provided for the collection, after the completion of the
decennial census work, of statistics regarding the special classes, including the
insane, feeble-minded, deaf, dumb, and blind; crime, pauperism, and bevevolence,
including prisoners, paupers, juvenile delinquents, and inmates of benevolent and
reformatory institutions; deaths and births in registration areas; social statistics of
cities; public indebtedness, valuation, taxation, and expenditures; religious bodies;
electric light and power, telephone and telegraph business; transportation by water,
express business, and street railways; and mines, mining, and minerals.
THIRTEENTH CENsus, 1910.
By the terms of the Thirteenth Census act, which was approved July 2, 1909, the
decennial census work was limited to four subjects—population, agriculture, manu-
factures, and mines and quarries—and it was also stipulated that the reports relating
to these subjects should be completed on or before July 1, 1912. The law also
changed the date of enumeration from the 1st of June to the 15th of April, and through
subsequent legislation added materially to the work of the census enumerations.
This additional work covered inquiries, on special schedules, as to irrigation and
slaughter-houses, as required by the act of February 25, 1920, and additional inquiries
on the population schedule as to the nationality or mother of the foreign-born popu-
lation and of the parents of the native population of foreign or mixed parentage, as
required by the joint resolution of March 24, 1910.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. May I ask Mr. Rogers whether any census of
indebtedness is contemplated—mortgage indebtedness, for instance 2
Mr. Rogers. We take a census connected with wealth, debt, and
taxation.
92 FourTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
Mr. FAIRFIELD. I would like to know, when we get through, as to
farm mortgages and their distribution.
Mr. HUNT. I think I can answer that. There is a statement in
the brief filed by the director relative to such investigations in 1890,
the Eleventh Census. It was provided that the Eleventh Census
should provide for the collection of the statistics of and relating to
the recorded indebtedness of private corporations and individuals.
The act of February 22, 1890, called for the number of persons who
live on and cultivate their own farms, the number who live in their
own homes, the number who hire their farms and homes, the number
of farms and homes which are under mortgage, the amount of mort-
gage debt, the value of the property mortgaged, and whether such
farms and homes have been mortgaged for the whole or part of the
purchase money for the same or for other purposes, and the rates of
interest paid upon mortgage loans; and for the accomplishment of
this purpose an appropriation of $1,000,000 was made, in addition
to the regular census appropriation. The number of farms and
homes owned and hired, of those owned, and the number free and
mortgaged were obtained by the addition of five inquiries on the
population schedules, while the supplemental information as to the
value of the property so mortgaged, the amount of the mortgage
debt, and the object for which the debt was incurred, was obtained
by correspondence and special agents. The information concerning
the recorded indebtedness of private corporations and individuals
was abstracted by special agents from the public records in every
county of the United States.
Mr. ROGERs. Rather than make a detailed statement in respect to
all the schedules that are to be used I would prefer to furnish each
member of the committee with tentative schedules or proposed
schedules covering all of these inquiries.
The CHAIRMAN. I think it would be well enough to have such copies
furnished to the members of the committee rather than to print them
all in the record, and I will ask you to see that those copies are
furnished to the members.
Mr. LARSEN. I am thoroughly in accord with the suggestion made
by Mr. Fairfield that we ought to have some way of ascertaining
something about the mortgage indebtedness of the country. I think
in addition to that we ought to know, right after the census has been
taken, something about the earning capacity of the various parties,
employers and employees. For instance, suppose we are considering
an economic plan and want to determine—I will say in this war
time—as to whether or not a certain price is a proper price to fix for
any farm product. One farm product may grow in Oregon and
another one may grow in Florida, and unless we know something
about the earning capacity of those who are engaged in that work we
can not fix a price that would be adequate in those instances. There-
fore, it looks to me as though we ought to know something about the
earning capacity of the various parties who are engaged in this work
throughout the country.
The CHAIRMAN. You mean the wage scale .
Mr. LARSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. ALEXANDER. The Department of Labor gathers statistics as
to all of that. -
FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CEN SUSES. 93
Mr. LARSEN. If we are going to take a census then we ought to
take a census that will be complete. That is my idea about it, and
not leave it to the Labor Department to do that. We ought to take
the census in such a way that when it has been taken we can go to
the Census Bureau and get all of that information.
Mr. ALEXANDER. But the Department of Labor is better equipped
to find out that information in regard to wages.
Mr. MILLER. There is another mighty valuable thing which might
be included, and that is the agricultural labor that has gone into the
war, that is, the number of young men who have been taken from the
farms. We have a great deal of complaint from our agricultural
districts about young men being taken from the farms and put into
the Army. I think it would be well if information could be gathered
in that regard. -
Mr. LARSEN. I do not think that the Department of Labor is in a
position to get information as to this wage matter, at least as com-
pletely as would be the Census Bureau. Who would be in a better
position to ascertain this information than the man who is taking
this census, because he sees every man in person, or at least he is
presumed to see every man in person, or the head of the family, who
represents every individual in that family.
The CHAIRMAN. Your idea would be to ask each man whether he
is a wage earner and if he is a wage earner what his wages are 7
Mr. LARSEN. Yes; what his occupation is, and whether he is an
employer or employee, and if he is an employee what his earning
capacity is. -
Mr. ALEXANDER. Not his earning capacity but what wages are
paid to him 7
Mr. LARSEN. Yes; perhaps that language is better.
The CHAIRMAN. What do you think about the ability of the enumer-
ators to get that information, Mr. Rogers ?
Mr. RogFRs. It would be difficult to get.
Mr. LARSEN. I see in this proposed schedule you provide that he
shall give his occupation and state whether or not he is an employer
or employee. When you get that information why could you not
ask him how much he is earning 2
Mr. RogFRs. That is very simple as to some classes, but as to very
many classes it is a very difficult question to ask. You ask a farmer
boy, “What is your occupation ?” He says, “I am making corn and
wheat.” You say, “What are your wages 2'' Then what would he
say ? -
Mr. LARSEN. That is just the question I would propound, because
if he is an employee he knows exactly what he is being paid for his
work on the farm.
The CHAIRMAN. But he might be working for a part of the crop.
Mr. LARSEN. If that were so, he could then be asked, “How much
do you produce in a year?” And in that way you could arrive at
his earning capacity. -
Mr. ALExANDER. But he would not know until the end of the year,
when he had cast up his accounts. -
Mr. MILLER. I never heard of farm labor working for a part of the
crop, but that they were usually paid so much a month.
The CHAIRMAN. You will find in the South that a negro works in
that way; the plantation man must support him and furnish every-
94 FOURTEENTH AND SUBSEQUENT DECENNIAL CENSUSES.
thing for his family, and then he gets a portion of the crop. Mr.
Rogers, I would like to have you put in the record a statement show-
ing the special or interdecennial censuses you take.
r. RogFRs. Intercensalº 1. -
The CHAIRMAN. Yes. You get out reports between the regular
periods, do you not ?
Mr. ROGERs. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Those are the reports to which I refer, and I
would like to know the probable cost of each one.
Mr. RogFRs. Very well, sir.
(Thereupon the committee adjourned to meet Wednesday, March
13, 1918, at 10 o'clock, a. m.)
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