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STATE OF NEW YORK.
No. 225.
IN ASSEMBLY,
FEBRUARY, 27, 1860.
Introduced on notice by Mr. Flagler; read twice, and referred to
a select committee; reported favorably from -said committee,
and committed to the committee of the whole; considered and
amended in said committee, ordered printed as amended, forthwith, and made the special order'for Monday, February 27th, at
7 o'clock, P. M.
An Act in relation to the Transportation of Freight on the
several Railroads of this State.
The People of the State of Jrew York, represented in Senate and
Assembly, do enact as follows:
SECTION 1. Every railroad corporation in this state, which now
is, or hereafter shall be engaged in the transportation or carriage
of property, except where steam shall not be used for such transportation, is hereby required to make up a full and complete arrangement and classification, in the order from highest to lowest,
as each railroad corporation for itself shall rate the relative value
of transportation of all and singular, the property usually carried
by it, upon the whole, or any portion of the line of its railroads,
and shall designate the several grades and orders of such arrangement and classification, as class first, class second, third, fourth,
&c., and no article shall appear in more than one classification;
such arrangement and classification shall also contain a full and
complete specification of the rates and prices, respectively, at
which such railroad corporation will transport each article, or
class of articles of property, (the transportation upon which is
rated at the same value respectively,) which rate and price for
transportation shall be specified as a sum certain per ton per mile;
which rate and price of transportation shall apply as well to a
lesser or fractional part of a ton, as to a greater quantity than
one. ton (except as herein provided), to be transported upon the
whole lines of its railroad.




2
In case of any article, or class of articles of property, which
usually have been transported by railroad by the car load, barrel,
package, or other known quantity, and not by the ton, then such
specifications may be made up in other respects, as aforesaid, by
the car load, barrel, package, or other known quantity, specifying
the rate per mile at which the same shall respectively be transported by the car load, barrel, package, or other known quantity
as aforesaid.
Every such railroad corporation shall, at all times, take, receive,
transport, load, unload, handle and deliver all way freight, and
all property, from any station upon the line of its railroad, to any
other station upon the line of its railroad, and from either terminus of such railroad, to a way station. or station on the line thereof, which it may transport ordinarily, over the whole line of its
railroad, or to any part thereof; and it shall transport each and
all said way freight, and each and every item and article of said
property transported upon its said railroad, at the same rate per
ton per mile as that mentioned in said arrangement and classification, and specifications, and at the same rate per ton per mile,
upon a portion of its said railroad, as upon the whole line thereof.
Except as herein provided, it shall not be lawful to charge or collect, for the transportation of such way freight, more than the
following rates in addition to the rate per ton per mile charged on
freight passing over the whole line thereof, to wit: For any distance not exceeding ten miles, one hundred and fifty per centum
per ton per mile of the aforesaid published through rates; for
any distance more than ten. not exceeding twenty miles, one hundred per centum; for any distance more than twenty, not exceeding thirty miles, seventy-five per centum; for any distance more
than thirty, not exceeding fifty miles, fifty per centum; for any
distance more than fifty, not exceeding one hundred miles, twentyfive per centum; and for any distance more than one hundred,
and less than one hundred and fifty miles, fifteen per centum; for
any distance more than one hundred and fifty, and less than two
hundred miles, ten per centum; and for any distance more than
two hundred, and less than three hundred miles, five per centum;
conditioned that the rates on way freight shall, in the pursuance
of the aforesaid provisions, be so adjusted, that in no case shall
a greater sum, in the aggregate, be charged or collected for a
shorter than a longer distance, and provided, also, that the whole
charge per ton on way freight, shall in no case exceed the whole:charge per ton on the through freight.




When any item or article of property shall be transported upon
any such railroad, and the same shall not be mentioned in the arrangement. classification and specifications herein required to be
made by the railroad upon which the same is transported, the
same shall be transported, at the lowest rate per ton per mile, as
aforesaid, mentioned in said arrangement, classification and specification aforesaid.
No article, or class of articles of property, according to the arrangement and classification herein named, shall be charged a
price for transportation per ton per mile, greater than triple the
rate imposed upon the lowest article or class of articles named in
said arrangement and classification.  Fresh meats and fresh fish,
transported between the months of May and November, inclusive,
ores, mineral coal, milk, garden vegetables and fruit, shall be excepted from the provisions of this act.
Every lot and quantity of property, although the same shall
consist of two or more items, articles, tons, bales, barrels, parcels,
or other known quantity, being of the same classification and arrangement as aforesaid, offered for transportation at one time, or
named upon one bill of lading, ticket, or other method of designating the property intended for transportation, for one owner or
owners, shall be considered one lot and quantity, for the purpose
of ascertaining the rates, and aggregate price, at which the same
shall be transported, received, loaded, unloaded, handled and delivered.
Any fractional part of a mile which such property respectively
shall be transported, when the same shall be transported more
than one mile, shall be considered as a whole mile, in ascertaining the price of transportation of said property respectively; but
ino railroad shall be compelled to transport any article for a less
compensation in the aggregate than twenty-five cents.
No railroad corporation of this State shall give to any station
upon its line, or either terminus of its railroad, any precedence
or preference over any other station upon its said railroad, in the
use of its facilities for the receiving, transporting, handling or
delivering of any property which may be transported upon either
the whole or part of its railroad, and, as near as may be, shall receive, transport and handle all property which it transports upon
the whole or any part of its railroad, in the order of priority of
tender or receipt, (at any station upon its line,) of such property,
for the purpose of having the same transported to any other station upon its railroad.




A plainly printed or written copy of the arrangement, classification and specifiation of prices for transportation, receiving,
loading, unloading, handling and delivering, which shall be in
force at the time, shall be signed by the president, vice-president,
general freight agent or superintendent of such railroad, and shall
at all times, be kept posted in a conspicuous place in each and
every freight house, station house and depot of such railroad corporation, or used by it in connection with its railroad, which
copies respectively sliall, at all times during business hours, be
subject to inspection without hindrance.  A copy of such arrangement, classification and specification aforesaid, signed as aforesaid, by the president, vice-president or general agent of such
railroad, and which shall be duly acknowledged before, and
certified by some officer authorized to take the acknowledgment
of deeds, shall be filed with the auditor in the canal department
at Albany, within three days after the adoption, or the making of
the same, or the making any amendment, change or modification
of the same, which copy, or a transcript thereof, and of the certificate of the acknowledgment thereof, certified with the time of
the filing thereof, by the said auditor, shall be legal evidence in
any court, civil or criminal, in this state, of the said arrangement,
classification, specification, and the contents thereof; that the
same was made by such railroad corporation, and of the filing,
and the time of filing thereof. Such arrangement, classification and
specification, respectively, shall in all cases, remain unchanged for
at least five days after the adoption and filing as aforesaid,-of the
same, and the pro rata price for the transportation of any article,
or class of articles aforesaid, shall in no case be changed at any
alteration of any such arrangement, classification or specification,
more than thirty per cent from the lowest price aforesaid, as to
said article or class of articles, respectively, in that current year.
Nor shall such railroad corporation collect or receive either a less
or greater sum or consideration in payment for receiving, transporting, loading, unloading, handling and delivering, than that
which shall appear to be due by computations from the arrangement, classification and specfications aforesaid, in force at the
time being.
~ 2. No railroad corporation shall, directly or indirectly, permit any other person or persons, corporation or corporations, to
carry, transport or forward, over the whole, or any part of its railroad, any property for less rates or prices respectively, than those
which the said railroad corporation itself would be entitled to re



ceive for the receiving, loading, transporting, unloading, handling
and delivering according to the provisions of this act; but the
provisions of this act shall not be so constructed as to prevent express companies from charging a commission in addition to tariffs
for the time being, established under and by virtue of this act.
~ 3. No railroad corporation shall, directly or indirectly, pay
back any portion of the aggregatle sums respectively, so, as aforesaid, to be charged by it, for the receiving, loading, transporting,
unloading, handling, and delivering, of property as aforesaid, or
make any rebate or deduction tllerefrom, but shall, in all cases,
keep and retain each and all surns received by it for said receiving, loading, transporting, unloae;ing, handling and delivering any
property as aforesaid.
~ 4. No railroad corporation shall, directly or indirectly, or by
or through any officer or servant thlereof, combine with, or make
any agreement with any other person or persons, corporation or
corporations, for the receiving, loading, transporting, unloading,
handling or delivering any property transported on any other rail.
road, vessel or line of carriage, ia the course of that transportation, for any less,;um or price than the aggregate of the price
which, according to the arrangement, classification and specification aforesaid, the said railroad would be entitled to receive if
the property was carried only on its own railroad, added to the
local tariffs, ordinary rates and charges for the transportation and
forwarding of the same kinds of property respectively, at the
time being, over the other railroads, and by vessels or other lines
of transportation, respectively, over or upon which the same is
carried, as aforesaid, when the s.,me is carried only on these other
railroads, vessels, or other lines cf transportation or carriage alone
respectively. No railroad corporation of this state shall, pursuant
to any such combination or agreement, or in furtherance thereof,
charge or receive a less sum or Frice for the carriage, transportation, receiving, loading, unloading, handling and delivering of any
property which shall, in the coarse of that transportation, have
been carried over or upon any other railroad, vessel, or line of
carriage or transportation than tIhe aggregate of the price which,
according to the arrangement, classification and specifications
aforesaid, the said railroad would be entitled to receive if such
property was only transported over its railroad, added to the local tariffs and ordinary rates and charges for the carriage, transportation and forwarding of the same kind (of property respectively, for the time being, over or upon the other railroads, vessels, or




lines of carriage or transportation respectively, on which the same
is carried, when the same is only transported on such other rail.
roads, vessels or lines of carriage or transportation alone, respectively. Any railroad corporation which shall deliver at any
point any property carried upon its railroad, which shall, in the
course of that carriage or transportation, have been carried on
any other railroad, vessel or line of carriage or transportation,
and which shall charge or receive on such delivery a less sum
for receiving, loading, transporting, unloading, handling and delivering of the same than the aggregate of the price and sum it
would as aforesaid be entitled to receive according to said arrangement, classification and specification, and the aggregate of
the local tariffs and ordinary rates and charges for the carriage,
transportation and forwarding of the same over or upon such other
railroad, vessels, and other lihes of carriage or transportation, respectively, over or upon which the same shall have been carried
or transported as aforesaid, respectively, where the same is only
carried or transported on such other railroads, vessels, or lines of
carriage or transportation respectively alone, shall be held prima
facie to have violated this section and this act.
~ 5. Each and every director, officer, agent, or servant, of every
railroad corporation who shall be guilty of a violation of any part
of this act, or of aiding or abetting therein, shall be deemed guilty
of a misdemeanor, and on conviction thereof, shall be punished by
fine of not less than two hundred and fifty dollars, nor more than
one thousand dollars, or imprisonment, as now provided by law,
or both.
~ 6. This act shall apply to each and all railroad corporations
now incorporated, or hereafter to be organized or incorporated
under any law of this state, except the Long Island railroad, and
all other railroads now constructed, or that shall hereafter be constructed on Long Island.
~ 7. This act shall take effect on the first day of April, one
thousand eight hundred and sixty.
~ 8. All acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act, or any
part thereof, are, to that extent, hereby repealed.












OF
HON. LUCIUS ROBINSON
OF CHEMUNG,
ON THE
PRO RATA BILL,
IN ASSEMBLY, FEB. 27, 1860.
1860.








SPEECH.
IN ASSEMBLY, FEB. 27, 1860.
MR. CHAIRMAN:The bill which was the first-born of the Select Committee, was ushered into the world, as will be remembered,
with a flourish of trumpets. Its perfections were wonderful. No amendment was to be allowed. No "shears"
were to come near it. Not a letter to be changed. What
has become of this child of so much promise? Why, sir,
we have to-day seen it consigned to the grave, and by its
own parents. It is a clear case of infanticide. A coroner's
inquest should be held. Short and troubled was the life of
the deceased; speedily was it hurried to the tomb and laid
in its last resting place.
" So fades a summer cloud away;
So sinks the gale when storms are o'er;
So gently shuts the eye of day;
So dies the wave along the shore."
And now, sir, having paid the funeral honors due to the
distinguished dead, let us look at its successor, provided
we can keep it before us unchanged long enough for that
purpose. If you examine it you will at once be struck with
its family likeness to the deceased. If you look very closely, you will find that there has been another crime committed-that the grave has been robbed, and that it is the
corpse which was supposed to have been buried this morning which has been brought back to us dressed in disguise
to make it less offensive. All that has been done to the bill
(dropping the figure) amounts to nothing but a recorded




4
confession that its principals are wrong and cannot be carried out without the grossest injustice.
It appears by the last official report, that there are within the bounds of this State, 2,398 miles of railways, which
have cost, in the aggregate, $149,262,311. They have
added countless millions to the wealth of the State, and
they contribute daily to the prosperity and comfort of the
people. We have also 812 miles of canals, which have been
constructed at an immense expenditure from the public
treasury. No State, no nation in the world, can exhibit
more magnificent results springing from the spirit of commercial enterprise. The bill before us, if enacted into a
law, must affect very seriously, for good or for evil, all
these vast interests. In discussing its merits, I trust this
House will put aside all the selfish interests of canal forwarders, of " Clinton Leagues," and railway managers;
that it will rise above all excitements and prejudices, and
will take its stand on the high and broad ground of those
eternal principles of truth, justice and honor, by which the
action of a great State should ever be governed. In the
light of such principles I shall endeavor to examine the
provisions of this bill.
I have not offered a single amendment to the bill, and
have advocated but one of those proposed by others. The
reason why I have abstained from all attempts to improve
the bill, is, that it appears to me incapable of being brought
into any tolerable form by any series of amendments.
The first section contained, as originally reported, 132 lines,
and covered five pages. The other sections covered four
more pages. And such a complicated labrynth of words
has never yet been seen upon our statues, and I trust never
will be.
I make these remarks with the more freedom, because I
am informed that the bill came from outside, and was not
prepared by the Select Committee, or by any member of
this House. Without such information; it was sufficiently
apparent that the mind which gave us the compact and




well written report made by the Chairman of that Committee, the gentleman from Niagara, had nothing to do
with weaving this entangled web, which seems to have
neither beginning, end or middle.
But, sir, objectionable as the bill is in point of form, that
is as nothing compared with the unsound and odious principles which lie buried beneath its flood of verbiage. It
proposes a violent and sweeping interference with the
business of all the railroads in the State. It proposes to
wrest from them franchises solemnly guarantied to them
by law, to invade all their station houses and depots, to
abolish all their freight regulations, and to establish for
them an inflexible and iron pro rata rule, such as the experierce of all time upon every avenue of commerce has
shown to be unsound, impracticable and unjust.
The ground upon which the Legislature is asked to do
this great violence, appears at first sight very plausible.
It is, that higher prices are frequently charged for way
freights than for through freights, for short distances than
for long ones.  This naturally strikes every mind not
familiar with the course of trade as being unequal and
wrong. And I have no doubt that most of the petitions
presented here have been signed under that first impression.
When I received and read the "Clinton League" documents which were so profusely scattered over the State,
presenting only this aspect of the question, and before I
had time for examination, I frankly admit that if one of
these petitions had been presented to me, I might and
probably should have signed it.
One or two illustrations will best serve to remove that
impression and show the fallacy of this pro rata rule. Take,
for instance, the New York and Erie Road; it starts from
Dunkirk with a train of cars as long as one locomotive can
draw and all completely filled, and carrying, say 200 tons
of freight at $5 per ton. It moves on to New York without any stoppage or interruption, except for the usual
supplies of wood and water, and when it has arrived at its




6
destination it will receive $1000 for the freight earned by
the trip. Charge against this the wages of the men employed, the cost of fuel, the wear and tear and all other
expenses, reaching say $750; and the balance, $250, will
be clear profits. Take now a train for way freight, starting from Dunkirk with only three or four cars partly filled,
and stopping at every station along the whole line of 450
miles and picking up here and there half-loaded cars, and
finally arriving at New York with perhaps the same number of cars as the through train, but not more than one-half
the quantity of freight, say 100 tons, and even charging
the same price per ton as upon the through train, there
would be but $500 received. Supposing the expenses of
the way train to be the same as of the through train (and
the proof shows that they would be far more,) it will be
seen at a glance that whereas there was a profit of $250
upon the through train there is a loss of the same amount
upon the way train.
My friend, Mr. Diven, late Senator from my district,
who is very familiar with this whole subject, and especially
with the operations of the Reading road, has kindly sent
me a statement, which I beg leave to read as further illustrating the same position:
The Reading Railroad is 100 miles in length. A locomotive draws 100
four-wheel cars, carrying five tons each, from Pottsville to Richmond, the
whole length of the road. Experience has shown that coal carried in this
way will pay.a fair profit at one cent per ton per mile. This load pays $500
drawn through. Now if you start frem Pottsville with five car loads, and
stop every five miles and load five cars at each stop, you reach Richmond
with a full load, and at one cent per ton per mile on a load gathered in this
way, you receive $260.; and every railroad operator can see that it will cost
more to earn $250 in this way than $500 on the through load.
These illustrations might be continued to any extent.
They show I believe with  entire fairness the distinction
between through and way freights —the absolute necessity
which the laws of trade enforce, of charging more in proportion upon way than upon through freights. They show
too why this always has been done and always must be
done if the carrying trade be conducted upon sound business principles. Moreover if we look into the evidence




7
given before the select committee, we find that several of
the ablest and most experienced men connected with railroad management in the whole country were examined,
and all concur in the statement that it is impossible to do a
way business at the same rates as a through business, be.
cause it ismfar more expensive. Every man of common
sense must see that it would be as improper to require it
as to compel a merchant to sell his goods at retail for the
same price as at wholesale.
Let us look a little farther into the practical working of
this pro rata principle. The original bill provided that all
freights should be carried at a sum certain per ton per
mile, and the same rate to apply as well to a lesser as to a
greater quantity. There was also to be allowed at the
rate of 40 cents per ton (in the elegant language of this
bill) " for receiving, loading, unloading, handling, delivering and doing the other things aforesaid." Suppose then
you wish to send a barrel of flour from Dunkirk on the
Erie road a distance of five miles. A half dime would seem
a small sum to charge for that service, and a barrel of
flour being about the tenth part of a ton, there would be
four cents " for receiving, loading, and unloading, handling,
delivering and doing the other things aforesaid," making
altogether nine cents —a very moderate charge, truly. But
pro rate it to New York, and it would amount to $4,50,
frequently more than the flour would be worth. Extend
the principle over a line of road a thousand miles in length,
say from Chicago to New York, and the freight would
amount to $10 per barrel or $100 per ton. If you do not
like to pro rate up in this way, suppose we pro rate down.
Start a barrel of flour from Chicago to New York at $1
per barrel, which is more than the usual charge. It would
make the rate for 10 miles one rent, 5 miles half a cent, and
one mile one mill. To such ridiculous and absurd results
does this principle lead.
The author of the bill, whoever he may have been, was
obliged himself to violate the principle of it as its friends




8
have been to-day, and to save it from these ludicrous results provided that an arbitrary sum of twenty-five cents
should be paid for carrying any distance. But this does
not affect the principle, it only shows a consciousness-that
it is unsound.
The majority report of the Select Committee refers with
an air of triumph to the fact that several roads running in
connection pro rate with each other. But in every instance adduced in the report it was through freight, carried
over the entire length of all the roads, and in such cases it
makes no difference whether the prices charged are a sum
in gross or at so much per mile. The result would be the
same either way. It therefore proves nothing.
The friends of this bill recoiled with horror from the proposition to apply it to the canals. They gave as an excuse
that competition would regulate the prices on the canals,
and so it will, but not on the pro rata principle, which is
thus proved to be wrong. It was proven before the committee, and not denied, that in May last freight was carried
by canal from New York to Buffalo, 514 miles, for 10 cents
per 100 lbs., while from New York to Rochester, 415 miles,
12 cents per 100 pounds was charged. At pro rata it
should have been 8,04 cents per 100 pounds, or onethird less than was charged to Buffalo. In July, from New
York to Syracuse, 8 cents per 100 pounds was charged for
316 miles, while from Syracuse to Manlius, 10 miles, 8 cents
per 100 lbs. At pro rata, the rate between Syracuse and
Manlius would have been 3 mills per 100 pounds, instead
of 8 cents. So to Rome, 125 miles, 10 cents per 100
pounds, and from New York to Syracuse, 316 miles, 8 cents
per 100 pounds. At pro rata, from Albany to Rome it
should have been 312i cents per 100 pounds. At the
same time, from Albany to'Utica, 100 miles, 10 cents per
100 pounds was paid, and from New York to Detroit 12
cents per 100 pounds. A pro rata would be, from Albany
to Utica, 1l"% cents per 100 pounds, or less than onequarter the price charged.




9
I will not detain the committee by multiplying facts and
instances which are so well known and to which there is
no exception. Upon no road, upon no river, upon no canal
in the whole country has this iron pro rata rule ever been
applied to way freights. All rules and all analogies are
against it. The same postage stamp required to carry a
letter one mile will carry it a thousand miles. Express
charges vary but little on account of distances.  The
freights are but a trifle higher from New York to Liverpool than from New York to Charleston. The great rival
lines of railroads engaged in ardent competition with ours
are free and untrameled. Why then should we step in to
aid those lines by putting handcuffs and straight-jackets
upon our own roads? Why should we thus interfere with
the natural course of trade, and intermeddle in a business
which will be much better managed by those who are engaged in it and understand it, than it can possibly be by
the Legislature?
Sir, the gentleman from Herkimer, who advocates this
violent interference with the transportation business referred in terms of admiration to the late Michael Hoffman
-a name never to be pronounced by me but in terms of
respect and veneration. I would like to ask my friend
from Herkimer, what that wise and faithful statesman
would have said to such a proposition as this. Often have
I wished during this debate that the " Grey Eagle of Herkimer," as we used to delight to call him, might have been
spared to rise in his place here and blast with the lightning of his great intellect a scheme so full of mischief as
the one before us. But, sir, though dead, he yet speaks
and shall be heard. I will read from a speech delivered
by him upon this floor in the Constitutional Convention of
1846. He was referring, as will be seen, to the subject of
levying tolls upon transportation, but his remarks will
apply with equal force to the violent and lawless interference proposed in this bill:
2




10
Some effort has been made to tax the railroads on their transportations,
as if the company paid this class of taxes and not the persons who consumed the articles transported. The Legislature have made some progress
in this Spanish-Bourbon legislation of pensioning the government on trade
and travel. We would. make internal improvements and cheapen transportation, and tax the transportation to make it dear. If we attempt to
extend and fix this system of taxes on transportation, if we pursue the
course of taxing transportation on roads not made at the expense of the
State, we shall make the government a real highwayman-odious and an
oppressor. Such a course may, like any other abuse answer. for a time;
but it must fail from surrounding circumstances. Trade, travel and transportation will be driven from us, and our industry must languish for want
of the rewards which untaxed transportation and trade can alone secure to
labor.
I never can consent that the current expenses of the State, and all its
great expenditures, should be charged on the right of way, which the
sovereign should hold, not as property for revenue, but in trust for the
million-to promote travel, transportation and commerce. To the extent
that the State makes advances and incurs a reasonable risk in making a
road or canal, the State, from the tolls, should fully indemnify itself for
those expenses and that risk. But when a citizen, at his own expense,
makes the road or canal, I can think of no worse or more oppressive course
than the Bourbon one which we have commenced of taxing the transportation on it for the benefit of the State.
If the policy of levying tolls upon transportation deserved to be characterized  as a Spanish-Bourbon  policy,
how much more does this pro rata scheme deserve that
epithet? For the tolls there is a show of reason. There
is at least the excuse that they will bring some revenue
into an exhausted and empty treasury, and, as Hoffman
declares, the State should indemnify itself for its expenses.
But the pro rata measure does not offer even that poor
apology. It will be a violent and mischievous interference
with trade and transportation, which may produce a little
temporary benefit to a few canal forwarders, but to no one
else, either government or people, and must ultimately end
in disaster to all parties. What good can it do? Will it
lower the rates of freight for our own citizens? The complaint is not that the charges upon us ace too high, but
those upon our neighbors are too low. The proof shows
conclusively that the rates for way freights, upon the roads
in this State, are lower than upon almost any roads in the
country. If by passing this act we break up the through
business we shall compel the roads to raise our own freights




in order to support themselves at all. Will the people
thank us for that?
In defiance of the evidence, the advocates of the measure
contend that it can be enforced, and our roads still keep
their business-that the rates on this business can be increased without losing it. They tell us that New York has
a plateau which is the natural track of commerce; they point
us to the heavy grades at the South, and the cold winters
at the North; and by a series of easy and pleasing deductions they arrive at a logical demonstration that the
rival lines cannot compete with us, and that the trade
must continue to pass over our plateau. They are like certain learned writers who proved only a few years ago that
railroads could never carry freight at all, and that steam'
ships could not cross the Atlantic, and that all who differed
from them in these opinions were very ignoranit people.
The speculations were all good; the logic perfect, but the
misfortune was that the event would never agree with the
prediction. Even while the demonstration that these things
could not be done, was going on, the things actually were
done.
So it is with our friends. Their reasoning is good, their
conclusions most gratifying, but the actual event falsifies
all. They build us a pleasant house to dwell in; but it is
founded upon the sand and the storm sweeps it away.
Whilst we are listening to the proof that those rival roads
cannot compete with ours, they actually are competing.
Whilst we are being told that the grand trunk road is, up
towards the North Pole, frozen up and incapable of carrying
freight to New York as cheaply as our own roads, its trains
are running but a few miles north of us, its agents are all
over the west, and it is actually carrying freight from Chicago
to Liverpool cheaper than our roads can carry it to New
York. There has been expended upon it and other works
in connection, to enable them to compete with us, more
money than the Erie canal and our two great lines of rail



road originally cost. The total amount of capital invested
in works competing with!us more or less for this western
trade, in Canada and the States, is not less than $350,000,000.
Our own railways have cost in the aggregate near
$150,000,000. What mean these immense and almost incredible expenditures? Do gentlemen suppose that they
are for no purpose? Has Canada, backed by the British
government, expended nearly $100,000,000 for nothing?
No; delude us with specious reasoning as you may, as to
the impossibility of competition, the patent fact stands out
in defiance of all logic. These tremendous interests are
engaged in a desperate struggle. The New York roads are
pressed on every side, and are put to their utmost energies
to maintain themselves. In carrying at low rates they submit to a stern necessity. Who doubts that they, -would
obtain higher prices if they could? Are we to be told that
they wantonly throw away money? No; to compel them
to charge higher is to compel them to abondon the business.
To pass this law is to put chains upon their limbs at a time
when they most require the free use of all their powers in
this tremendous contest.
I will not detain the committee longer upon this branch
of the subject. I have not deemed it necessary to reply at
much length to arguments intended to prove that certain
events could not happen when they are actually happening
every day before our eyes.
There is another question of a most serious character, to
which I now ask attention. Has the Legislature a constitutional right to pass this act, and can it do so without a
violation of its faith and honor? This question has not
hitherto been referred to, except in a very general way by
the report of the select committee, which does not touch
the real point involved.
I have already alluded to the fact that $150,000,000 have
been invested in the railroads of this State, a sum sufficient
to admonish us that we are dealing with immense interests




13
and should proceed with caution. The Legislature has at
all times encouraged the construction of these works, which
have done so much to develop our wealth and revenues.
The monies expended upon them belonged not to the State
but to individuals, who were induced to advance their
funds in consideration of certain rights and franchises
granted by the State. One of those franchises was the
right of each company to fix and regulate the rates of
freight.. It is an established rule of law that a charter to
such a corporation is a contract between the government
and the company. To take away or impair one of the
franchises granted by such a charter would therefore be a
clear violation of the Constitution, but for the clause which
is usually inserted reserving the power " to alter, modify
or repeal." Now what is the fair import and meaning of
that formal provision inserted in all charters? Does it
mean that theLegislature may, without a forfeiture of the
charter, step tin wantonly and take away the rights and
franchises which it has granted to a company and render
them worthless? This would be a monstrous doctrine.
Although the State may have power so to act, good faith
and common honesty forbid it. Let me call attention to
the language of Chancellor Kent upon this subject:
2d Kent's Com., 372, 9th Ed,-306 old Ed.
General Railroad Act, Sec. 28, Sub. 9 and 10, Sec. 33.
The law gave the right to fix and regulate rates of
freight.  It gave authority to mortgage that franchise
with the other property. Such mortgages have been given
and money advanced upon them to the amount of many
millions. And now it is proposed to step in and take away
the right. Is not this a gross violation of faith? And
here. let me again quote another passage from the speech
of Michael Hoffman, already referred to. "I have," said
he "no desire to make a stalking horse of the public faith,
but I wish to bring before the committee what is meant
by a breach of public faith. In a moral point of view, and




14
and in its numerous consequences, it is in relation to the
sovereign body what wilful and corrupt perjury is to the
individual man. It is the maximum of human guilt."
I know not how this matter may appear to others; with
my views of it I could not vote to violate the faith of the
State, as I believe this bill does, without feeling this
"' maximum of human guilt" resting upon my conscience.
These remarks apply to all the railroads generally. But,
sir, as to the longest of those roads, the New York and
Erie, I take still stronger grounds, and insist that the passage of this bill will not be only a breach of public faith,
but a direct and palpable infraction of the Constitution.
Upon looking into the law upon this subject, I find that
the Erie road stands upon grounds peculiar to itself, as a
brief reference to its history, and the legislation in regard
to it, will show.
It will be remembered by the older members of this
House, that immediately after the completion of the Erie
canal, the southern tier of counties complained that whilst
they had been taxed for that work they were not benefitted
but rather injured by it. With a view of doing justice to
them the project of a State road was started as an offset
for the canal, and the Legislature ordered a survey to be
made and measures to be taken for the'construction of
such a road. While the matter was yet under discussion,
public attention was directed to the then new mode of
conveyance by railways, and the idea became prevalent
that a railway had. better take the place of the State road.
Finally, in 1832, the New York and Erie Railroad Company was chartered, with the understanding from the onset
that it was to receive aid from the State. It was chartered
as a freight road. One of the powers given to it in express terms was to "fix, regulate and receive the tolls and
charges" for transportation. I read from the 14th section
of its charter.'




15
The company was organized, and in 1836 the State in
pursuance of the purpose all along entertained, advanced
stock to aid in the construction of the road to the extent
of $3,000,000. Subsequently the company entirely broke
down, the work was suspended, and for several years there
was little hope of its ever being completed. There were
applications and a report in the Senate to adopt it as a
State work. But finally, after great embarrassment and
much negotiation, the company was reorganized under a law
passed in 1845, and the work went on to completion. And
I now wish to call particular attention to that law of 1845.
It will be seen that it is not only in substance but even in
form a contract between the State and the company. The
language is: " If the New York and Erie Railroad Company," &c, then it shall be lawful for them to issue bonds
which shall be mortgages, &c., a first lien, &c. There is
no authority reserved to repeal or modify this act. On
the contrary, it contains a section repealing all acts in
conflict with it. Under this guaranty of the State, the
mortgage bonds were issued, the $3,000,000 advanced upon
them, and by the express terms of this law they became a
first lien upon all the property and franchises of the road.
One of these franchises was the right to fix and regulate
its own freights, and I respectfully submit that you cannot
interfere with that franchise without violating the constitutional provision that no law shall be passed impairing
the obligations of contracts, and also violating the pledged
faith of the State by trampling under foot the rights of the
mortgagees of that road.
In view of these circumstances, I ask the members of
this House to consider well whether we can pass this law
and still act in accordance with the admonitions of the
learned and pure minded Chancellor Kent? Will it exhibit that "extreme moderation and discretion" which he
so earnestly and so wisely commends? Or will it exhibit
that recklessness of public faith and constitutional obliga



16
tions which will be the first step in a downward road of
dishonor, where every succeeding step will become more
easy and rapid?
A few general remarks and I have done. The railroads
have been arraigned here, as " grinding monopolies," making war upon the canals and the people. I do not stand
here as their advocate or apologist. I have no interest in
them or their management, other than such as every citizen
has.  I admit that these great corporations should be
watched and strictly confined to their legitimate duties. I
think it more than probable that in the rush and hurry of
the,heated cempetition in which they are engaged, they
may have been at times too heedless of the rights of our
citizens. But I do not believe that this has been the result
of design, or of any intention to make war against the interests of a State upon which they depend for their very existence, and in whose honor and prosperity the managers feel
as high a pride and as deep an interest as any of us. I have
no doubt that there is some truth and a great deal of exaggeration in these charges hunted up and brought forward
by the " Clinton League," for the purpose of making out a
case against them. Doubtless most of these instances are
accidental irregularities which will be corrected by public
opinion, and free competition, a stronger power in commercial matters than legislative acts. The railroad corporations
are not perfect any more than other human institutions, and
we cannot make them so. If they make mistakes, the Legislature might make those which would be as bad or worse.
Let us not take their affairs into our hands. Our success in
the canal business has not been such as to encourage us to
undertake the ruining of the railroads.
Why should we denounce them as grinding monopolies
and charge them with oppression? They are not monopolies; they have no exclusive privileges. Every body may
build a Railroad to compete with any other. There is entire
freedom in this respect, and they are all in competitions




17
more or less, with other roads. And how have they
oppressed us? Has it been by pouring out their money like
water until they have expended $150,000,000 to bring the
markets of the world to our very doors? Has it been by
carrying us and our merchandize from place to place with
the speed of the wind and laying at our feet the tribute of
all quarters of the globe? Has it been by carrying food to
the consuming millions at rates so low that nearly all the
companies are on the verge of bankruptcy and the Railroads
are becoming paupers? Call you this oppression? And
who, among us, ever knew that we were oppressed at all
until the "Clinton League" told us so? But for the uncalled for obtrusion of this information, we should have lived
on in blissful ignorance of what we were suffering.
Again, I ask, why the Railways are charged with oppression? Not because they charge us too much, but because
they are kind to our neighbors and charge them too little.
We propose to make it a criminal offence, and to inflict
pains and penalties if they do not charge them higher and
compel people to pay more for their bread. Is the great
State of New York to make such an exhibition of herself?
Is she to legislate with the mean and envious spirit " which
pines and sickens at another's joy?"
But it is said that the effect of this is to depress the value
of our lands and depopulate our State. Is there any truth
in that assumption? Does anybody believe it? Will our
farmers sell out and move a thousand miles farther west,
because they can have their produce carried to the seaboard
for a few cents less?  No sir; it is all fiction. We have
countervailing advantages which more than overbalance all
this. The farmers of the west have much more difficulty
and expense to reach their shipping points than we have.
And if there is depression in the value of the land at the
East, so is there at the West; and the railroads had nothing
to do with it in either case. It is the natural result of the
3




commercial revulsion of two years ago, and the failure of
western crops, the effects of which are still felt everywhere.
It is said that the railroads are competing with the canals,
and taking away their business. That is true to some extent. No one can deny it. The State built canals, and it
authorized and encouraged the building of railroads along
their banks. Competition was the natuiral and inevitable
result. If the State was determined to avoid competition
it should never have gone into the canal business, or else
it should not have authorized the railroads. Having done
both, andlbrought its competitors into the field, it is unfair
and unmanly to rule them off by the power of law.
Legislate as much as we may, the trade will go where it
can go quickest and cheapest. In doing so it obeyes the
laws of trade, which are higher than any that we can make.
Let us not forget that we live in a progressive and a fast
age and country. Commercial enterprise is running its
competing lines all over the globe. Railways are supplanting Canals, and the brain may even now be at work which
is to invent some power to take the place of railways. We
can no more stay these things than we can change the
course of the planets. There is as has been well said " an
inexorable logic of events " which it is as vain to resist as
it is to contend with the Almighty.
The bill before us is, in my opinion, an attempt to reverse the wheels of time and make them roll backward. It
is a bill to violate the laws of trade, to enact a manifest
wrong, to do injustice to the railroads, and to sacrifice
American to British enterprise, to drive away the trade and
commerce of the State and of its great emporium. Worst
of all, it is a bill to violate the faith of the State and the
Constitution of' the United States. These are my reasons
for opposing it, I think they are sufficient.












OPPOSITION TO RESTRICTIONS UPON TRADE.
Remonstrance of the Business Men of New-York.
To THE HION. THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF NEW-YORK:
Your Petitioners, merchants and business men of the City and County
of New-York, remonstrate against the passage of bills now before your
honorable body, providing for the regulation of Rail-Roads, and their
Freight Tariffs. That one bill, commonly called the Pro Rata Freight
Bill, is grounded on false principles of legislation, tyrannical in its provisions, and subversive of the best interests of this State. It provides that
all the Rail-Roads in this State shall carry freight at the same rate per
mile for a short distance that they charge for a long distance.  This arbitrary interference with the natural laws of trade is justified by the friends
of the bill on the ground that the producers of this State need protection
from Western competition, and that the State Canals need protection
from Rail-Road competition. Instead of obstructing our means of transport and communication with the great and growing West, the State
should do every thing in its power to increase these facilities. Our
commercial supremacy is not so secure for the future as we are prone to
believe. We have active and vigilant rivals on every side, and they are
exerting every effort to draw off our trade. The effect of the Special Tax
proposed would be to enhance the prices of food brought from the West
to the populations of our crowded cities and villages, while it would at
the same time tend to diminish the employment, and reduce the compensation of labor. For these, and many other reasons that might be
advanced, your remonstrants respectfully, but most earnestly urge the
rejection of both bills.
Names and Places of Business.        Names and Places of Bu.sitess.
ABBOTT, J., 94 Broadway.             Abbott, Jno. M., 111 Chambers-street.
Atwater & Co., Wm., 94 Chambers-street. Allen, Julian, 130 Water-street.
Andrere, B., 75 Chambers-street.     Archer & Bull, 177 Water-street.
Arthur, Geo. D., 146 Broadway.       Asten, Harry, 120 Maiden Lane.
Agnew & Sons, Wm., 284 and 286 Front-st. Allin, R. C., 15 Wall-street.
Allen & Co., Joseph, 11 South-street.  Anthony, Jno. W., 252 Broadway.
Agnew, John T., 284 and 286 Front-street. Agate, Joseph, 256 Broadway.
Adee, Geo. T., 40 Wall-street.       Amielon & Leavitt, 256 Broadway.
Arnold & Tournade, 50 Beaver-street.   Adams & Hawthorne, 51 South-street.
Angell & Co., 158 Chambers-street.   Arnold & Co., L. L., 36 Liberty-street.
Acker, Merrall & Co., 132 Chambers-st.  Adams, McKeenny & Co., 96 Liberty-st.
Andrews, Giles, Sanford & Co., 100 Cham- Adler & Rosenblatt, 95 and 97 Liberty-st.
bers-street.                       Adler, Brother & Co. 93 Liberty-street.




2
Ackerman & Bro., B., 154 West-street.    Binns & Halsted, 145 Chambers-street;
Archer & Bro., 202 West-street.         Bruce & Co., A. T., 147 Chambers-street.
Appleton & Co., D., 346 Broadway.       Baker & Bro., H. J., 142 Water-street.
Adams, J. L, 108 and 110 Warren-street. Bull, Henry, 169 Water-street.
Adams, Seth, 166 Pearl-street.          Beebe & Brother, 149 Front-street.
Aspinwall, James S., 86 William-street.   Blossom, Chas. W., 145 Front-street.
Anthony, E., 308 Broadway.              Banker, James H., 49 South-street.
Ashley, O. D., 52 Exchange Place.       Briggs, Austin A., 117 Maiden Lane.
Adee, Chas. T., 99 West 42d-street.     Brown, E, B., 117 Maiden Lane.
Adams, F. T., 84 Orchard-street.        Blodgett, A., 93 Maiden Lane.
Algernon & Jarvis, 192 and 194 Cherry-st. Baldwin & Johnston, 63 Maiden Lane.
Abeel & Co., Jno. H., 190 South-street.   Boyd, Wm., 91 John-street.
Andarim, W. E., 322 Pearl-street.       Bunting, Wm., 104 John-street.
Adams, J. Q., 95 Church-street.         Blackwell & Co., R. M., 144 Front-street.
Allen, Geo. C., 415 Broadway.           Barker, Jas. T., 148 Front-street.
Allason, Wm., 396 Broadway.             Butler, W. R., 240 Water-street.
Appleton, Daniel S., 346 Broadway.      Bowen, Hilton R., 163 Maiden Lane.
Allaire, Anthony, 364 Broadway.         Becar, Alfred, 187 Broadway.
Aldrich, H. D.                          Barry, Saml. F., 135 Broadway.
Alfred, S. M., 13 Gold-street.          Barry, W. F., 135 Broadway.
Arthur, M., 89 Gold-street.             Baker, D. P., 177 Broadway.
Aldrich, T. C., 58 Beekman-street.      Brooks, Samuel, 181 Broadway.
Armstrong, David, 254 Water-street.     Benedict, Hall & Co., 21 Park Row.
Adee, Frederic, 114 Norfolk-street.     Baldwin & Starr, 23 Park Row.
Acklande, Thos. R., 226 Greenwich-street. Benkard & Hutton, 58 Broadway.
Adams & Co., Jay L., 200 Greenwich-st.  Barnes, H. W., 26j Broadway.
Ackerman, James, 192 Pearl-street.      Ball, Black & Co., 247 Broadway.
Alger, E. W., 16 Spruce-street.         Babcock, D. M., 252 Broadway.
Adatns, Jno., 503 Greenwich-street.     Bunn, Wm. C., 291 Washington-street.
Ackerman, James, 192 Pearl-street.      Berry & Smith, 261 Washington-street.
Agnew, T. R., 260 Greenwich-street.     Beatty & Mitchell, 231 Washington-street.
Anthony, N. K., 39j Exchange Place.    Burdett & Titus, 4 Jones Lane.
Ayres, Geo. E., 362 Broadway.           Bateman, Benj., 138 Maiden Lane.
Booraem, W. G., 59 Liberty-street.
BAKER, G. W., 162 Broadway.             Bolles, E. L., 32 Liberty-street.
Beardsley, J. A., 18 Wall-street.       Bertram & Co., G. V., 64 Liberty-street.
Busteed, N. W., 16 Wall-street.         Bush, Gale & Robinson, 186 Greenwich-st.
Bryce & Co., William, 29 Chambers-street. Bart, E. N., 100 Liberty-street.
Brownson, Slocum & Hopkins, 45 Cham- Breeden, A. H., 107 and 109 Liberty-st.
bers-street.                          Blun, Nathan, 101 Liberty-street.
Boorman, Johnston & Co., J.             Benton & Co., J., 90 West-street.
Barney, A. H., 82 Broadway.             Benton & Bro., 90 West-street.
Barney, D. N., 82 Broadway.             Brush & Son, Platt, 160 West-street.
Baldwin, A. P., 72 Broadway.            Browning & Hiscox, 164 West-street.
Brown, Chas. W., 11 Broadway.           Besson, John, 184 West-street.
Baker, Frank T., 23 Wall-street.        Butler & Co., Edwin T., 316 Broadway.
Barnly, J. W., 23 Wall-street.          Bowen, Holmes & Co., 320 Broadway.
Bayles, R., 126 Broadway.               Brown & Co., E. J., 330 Broadway.
Burroughs, Wm., Jr., 192 Broadway.      Bliss, E., 232 Jay-street, Brooklyn.
Bird & Co., Wmin. E., 218 Front-street.    Byrne, John E., 332 Broadway.
Bensel & Co.                            Blydenburgh & Co., 85 Murray-street.
Blake, E. J., 184 Broadway.             Bacon, L. B., 59 Murray-street.
Bogert & Oakley, 89 Pearl-street.       Butler, Cecil, Rawson & Co., 11 Murray-st.
Bean & Raymond, 97 Pearl-street.        Browning, John H., Fourth Av. and 94th-st.
Beach & Brumley, 9 Coenties Slip.       Browning, F. F., 326 and 328 Broadway.
Brewer & Caldwell, 20 Old Slip.         Bevredge & Co., J., 121 Warren-street.
Brundage & Co., J. H., 36 Burling Slip.   Bate & Co., Thos. H., 7 Warren-street.
Brewer, H. O.. 20 Old Slip.             Bainbridge, Bros. & Co., 47 Cliff-street.
Babcock, F. A., 69 Beaver-street.       Barton & Scott, 18 and 20 Cliff-street.
Bellows & Co., Chas., 41 Beaver-street.   Bliven & Mead, 243 and 245 Pearl-street.
Brown, James, 7 Whitehall-street.       Benton, B. T., 20 Cliff-street.
Burkhalter & Co., C., 188 and 190 Chamin  Braman, Elias, 20 Cliff-street.
bers-street.                         Blanchard, L. D., 26 Cliff-street.




3
Bussing, Crooker & Co., 32 Cliff-street.   Bloomer & Macbeth, 24 and 26 Peck Slip.
Boswell, Jno. H., 189 Pearl-street.      Blachly, Simpson & Co.,;36 Dey-street.
Biggs, Wm. S., 113 Wall-street.         Benjamin John, E., 59 Dey-street.
Black, Gramm & Co., 41 Beekman-street Brown, Jr., & Co., Wm. A., 41 Dey-street.
and 166 William-street.               Breed, J. B. & Co., 26 Cortlandt-street.
Berlin & Jones, 134 William-street.      Burgoyne, Theo., 65 Liberty-street.
Barnet, H., 126 William-street.          Bierwith, Leopold, Merchants' Exchange,
Birch, Wm. M., 114 William-street.      Barber, Palmer & Co., 207 Duane-street..
Brinckerhoff, V. W., 88 William-street.   Booth, Peck & Barber, 141 Duane-street.
Belknap & Sons, E. S., 8 Gold-street.    Briggs, James A., 25 William-street.
Brown, A., 12 Gold-street.               Beach & Co., H. C., 71 Pine-street.
Bowles, S. B., 12 Gold-street.           Bristol, E. L., 413 Broadway.
Boyd, John T., 45 William-street.        Ballard, W. J. H., 364Broadway.
Breidenboh, Jr., J. H., 58 William-street. Bartlett & Lesley, 426 Broadway.
Babcock, D. S., New-York.                Bailey & Southard, 27 Park Place.
Bach, A., 79 William-street.             Barnwall, W., 74 Beaver-street.,
Block, J., 83 William-street.           Brown, Francis, 83 Beaver-street.
Bergmand, Althof, 54 Maiden Lane.        Brown & Powers, 362 Broadway.
Baxter & Co., C. H. & A. T., 82 Maiden Bramhall, C., 442 Broadway.
Lane.                                 Bogert, Ed. C., 49 William-street.
Bosler & Dreyer, 90 and 92 Maiden Lane. Beets, A. W., 43 Exchange Place.
Britton, Jno. P., 96 Fulton-street.     Barclay & Livingston, 24 Beaver-street.
Block, S., 154 Fulton-street.           Burt, Edwin C., 27 Park Row.
Bidwell, N., 146 Fulton-street.         Boyd, J. L., 70 Gold-street.
Brown, D. W., 130 Fulton-street.         Bridgens, Wml. H., 189 William-street.
Brown, A. S., 130 Fulton-street.         Brinckerhoff, J., 103 Fulton-street.
Beville, Jno., 126 Fulton-street.        Botsford, Stephen, 78 West 48th-street.
Besson & Van Syckel, 39 South William- Baldwin, C., 53 Gold-street.
street.                               Brass, J. D., 58 Beekman-street.
Bloodgood, John.                        Burns, M. H., 58 Beekman-street.
Brooks, Geo., 46 Ferry-street.          Barrows & Scott, 124 Maiden Lane.
Bailey, Lang & Co. H., 54 Cliff-street.    Brown, Jl:, Henry, 5 Gold-street.
Baker, H., 23 South-street.             Booth, Alfred, 243 Water-street.
Beecher, Wm. A., 1 Hanover-street.      Burkhalter, S., 220 Greenwich-street.
Bert, Jacob, 3 Hanover-street.          Beckwith, B. L., 43 Pine-street.
Brown & Blake, 323 Broadway.            Beale, Geo. W., 39 Pine-street.
Betts, T. B., 349 Broadway.             Balmforth, C., 5 Pine-street.
Bridge, Charles, 359 Broadway.          Bininger, Andrew G., 12 Pine-street.
Bulpin, Gregson & Elliott, 361 Broadway. Ballin, M., 175 Pearl-street.
Burr, Geo., 267 Broadway.               Brown, Elijah T., 40 Spruce-street.
Bement, E., 40 Exchange Place.          Brooks & Co., James, 32 Spruce-street.
Baker & Co., Anson, 47 Warren-street.   Brooks & Co., Geo. J., 8 Spruce-street.
Burtis & Kirby, 75 Warren-street.       Brimlow, Winm., 16 James Slip.
Buzby, Jno., 83 Warren-street.          Booth, Wm. T., 132 King-street.
Brockelmann, J. R., 16 Exchange Place.  Bahan & Co., T. S., 675 Washington-street.
Ballin & Sander, 24 Exchange Place.     Bell, John, 330 West-street.
Birney E. H., 69 Wall-street.           Bayles, J. C., 400 West-street.
Brown, Bros. & Co.                      Braine, Wm., 160 Pearl-street.
Beach, Wm. H., 20 East 11th-street.     Barneys, W., 160 Pearl-street.
Benner & Deake, 113 Wall-street.        Blake, Wheelock & Co., 71 Gold-street.
Burdick & Frisbie, 103 Wall-street.     Blodget, Brown & Co., 83 Beekman-street.
Bowerman, Wm. D., 91 Wall-street.       Bulkley, Bro. & Co., 67 Beekman-street.
Braynard, T. L., 81 Wall-street.        Barnes & Sons, Edward, 18 Beekman-st.
Braynard, S., 81 Wall-street.           Barry, James, 22 Beekman-street.
Bronson, J. M., 388 Broadway.           Brett & Son, J. G., 122 Beekman-street.
Black, James, 399 Greenwich-street.     Baker, W. B., 23 Park Row.
Barth, R. F., 388 Broadway.             Baldwin, H. M., 25 Park Row.
Bissell, Champion, 257 Front-street.    Braynard, T. L., 23 Boorman Place.
Blackman, J. S., 259 Front-street.      Brown, J. C.
Beards & Cummings, 279 and 281 Front-st.
Bird & Co., Wm. Edgar, 218 Front-street. CARTER, R. B., 120 William-street.
Bampton, F. W., 206 South-street.       Clark, & Williamson, 1 Wall-street.
Burr & Co., 114 South-street.            Clarkson, D., 34 Wall-street.




Christian, G. H., 18 Wall-street.        Campbell & Beach, 98 Liberty-street.
Canfield, A. W., Fifth Avenue and 38th-st. Clapp, Jr., John, 30 Beekman-street.
Cooper, M., 112 Chambers-street.        Colln & Hyman, 112 Liberty-street.
Christie, George, 29 Chambers-street.   Cohen & Trishell, 121 Liberty-street.
Coles, Nathaniel, 26 Broadway.          Conteul, Noah, 119 Liberty-street.
Crary, Geo. D., 31 Wall-street.         Clark, Alfred IH., 161 West-street.
Curtis, Cyrus, 98 Broadway.             Corwin, A. M., 326 Broadway.
Clark, Frederick, 130 Broadway.         Comstock, Wm. K., 320 Broadway.
Cawley, J. F., 290 Front-street.         Congreve & Son, Chas., 13 Cliff-street.
Crawford, T. R., 84 South-street.       Campbell & Fitzpatrick, 177 Pearl.street.
Cromwell, Edward, 209 Front-street.     Cornelis, F., 51 Cedar-street.
Clark, Albert, 15 Fifth Avenue.         Crosby, Gillespie &Stanton, 186 WilliamConant & Bolles, F. J., 204 Broadway.      street.
Curley & Kirk, 233 Front-street.        Cohen, S. L., 184 William-street.
Couillard, K., 107 South-street.        Cullen, J. C., 138 William-street.
Crowell & Co., E., 42 Water-street and 6 Coffin, Redington & Co., 88 William-st.
Coenties Slip.                        Chymau, George, 72 William-street.
Churchman & Roberts, 40 Water-street.  Clarke, J. H., 209 West Fourteenth-street.
Chauncey, Henry, 42 South-street.       Cornell, A. N., 39 Wooster-street.
Cooper, Wm. B., 70 South-street.        Clark, Green & Baker, 48 Maiden Lane.
Corning, E. S., 84 South-street.        Cavendy, Edward, 74 Maiden Lane.
Caldwell, S. B., 20 Old Slip.           Cleu, J. F., 90 Maiden Lane.
Collins, Geo., Jr., 93 Beaver-street.   Craft, Jno., 88 Fulton-street.
Chazournes, F., 79 Cedar-street.        Cottrill, W. H., 278 Pearl-street.
Cronkhite, C., 14 Beaver-street.        Castellanos, A. V., 31 Old Slip.
Cashman, M. H. & D., 5 Beaver-street.   Crocker, Edmund, 239 Henry-street.
Crocker & Co., H. C, 88 Beaver-street.   Choate, Joseph H., 147 Ninth-street.
Church, Jno. B., 62 Beaver-street.      Cockroft, J. H. V., 3 Hanover-street.
Carpenter, Joshua S., 26 Beaver-street.   Conover, Stephen, 298 Broadway.
Chemullin, J. B., 12 Broadway.           Conover, Stephen, Jr., 298 Broadway.
Cooper, M. H., 20.5 Broadway.            Congdon, Jno. G., 310 Broadway.
Clark & Banks, 204 Chambers-street.      Cornish, C. L., 310 Broadway.
Cary, Howard, Sanger & Co., 105 and 107 Cameron, Edwards & Co., 265 Broadway.
Chambers-street.                      Cumming, Simpson &  Armstrong, 279
Curtis & Baker, 149 Chambers-street.       Broadway.
Comstock, Jno. D., 155 Chambers-street.  Cohn, H., 301 Broadway.
Cromwell, Wm. A., 157 Chambers-street. Coffin, Robert, 31 3 Broadway.
Collins, Benjamin, 96 Broadway.         Chambers, M. H., 391 Broadway.
Cobb, March &8 Co., 62 Beaver-street.   Corey, E. Francis, Jr, 91 Merchants' ExCarters & Hawley, 41 Broad-street.         change.
Cohen & Co., M. S., 124 Water-street.   Cook, Geo. E., 89 Wall-street.
Cooper & Co., 138 Front-street.         Carter, Samuel.
Clough, Lowe & Co., 164 Front-street.    Clarke, J. W., 388 Broadway.
Clack & Co., Thomas, 193 Front-street.   Crowell, Jno. E., 55 Avenue A.
Crocker, Wood & Co., 52 South-street.    Collins, D. M., ti1 South-street.
Clucas & Leeds, 119 Maiden Lane.        Cromwell, Winm., 36 Dey-street.
Christian & Son, A., 81 Maiden Lane.    Combes, R., 26 Cortlandt-street.
Clark, Jr., Ezra, 145 Maiden Lane.      Chollar, J., 38 Cortlandt-street.
Cochran, Geo. W., 102 Broad-street.      Cornell, Sidney, 36 Cortlandt-street.
Cooper, Edward, 17 Burling Slip.         Cornell, Thomas L., 36 Cortlandt-street.
Chase, E. S., 137 Broadway.              Cornell, Samuel M., 36 Cortlandt-street.
Caldwell & Co., John, 155 Broadway.    Crawford, J. P. & I-I. L.
Clark, Emmons, 173 Broadway.             Conklin, B. R., 189 Reade-street.
Carhart, J. B., 58 Broadway.             Cammann & Co., 56 Wall-street.
Carhart & Brother, 58 Broadway.          Curran, Jno. P., 566 Broadway.
Chandler, Foster & Co., 52 Barclay-street. Casey, A. L., 413 Broadway.
Coe, Lucius, 52 Barclay-street.         Carroll, Herrick & Mead, 392 Broadway.
Cumminig, S. C. R., 58 Barclay-street.  Church, S. G., 388 Broadway.
Cohen & Co., H. M., 60 Barclay-street.    Coe, Geo. S., 126 Broadway.
Carlton, James, 267 Barclay-street.      Curtis, P. A., 364 Broadway.
Cain & Co., J. H., 238 Fulton-street.    Cornell & Amermau, 10 Park Place.
Copland, P. H., 56 South-street.         Cavan, W. R., 1 Park Place.
Cooley, M. A., 12 Dey-street.           Couran, Thos., 31 North Moore-street.




Cook, James, 56 Gold-street.            Dibblee, & Co., H. E., 25 Murray-street.
Cobb, Nathaniel R., 27 William-street.   Dickinson, Ed. J., 51 Cliff-street.
Clover & Glenton, 6 South William-st.    Dodge, Wm. E., 19 and 21 Cliff-street.
Caesar & Pauli, 4 South William-street.   Dutell, P., 51 Cedar-street.
Cousinery & Co., F., 27 South William-st.  Davison, Van Pelt & Crane, 50 William-st.
Chapin, George, 116 Maiden Lane.        Doyle, J. E., 97 William-street.
Creamer, Robert, 11 Gold-street.        Davids, Geo. W., 127 William-street.
Combs, Daniel, 39 Peck Slip.            Denny, Jr., Thos., 39 William-street.
Christianson, N., 216 Greenwich-street.   Davis, Gilbert, cor. Pine and William-st.
Constantine, Thomas, 60 Pine-street.    Davis, Saml. C., cor. Pine and William-st.
Currier, J. W., 136 Sixth Avenue.       Devoe, Jno. C., 350 Houston-street.
Cox & Wright, 4 and 6 Gold-street.      Dayton, Albert, 23 South-street.
Coit, Jno. B., 50 Ferry-street.         Dunn, Joseph, 8 Old Slip.
Converse, W. P., Tyler& Co., 168 Pearl-st. Douglas, Benj., 314 Broadway.
Clark, Alexander, 205 Sixth Avenue.     Duryee, Jaques & Co., 326 Broadway.
Conner & Sons, James, 29 Beekman-street. Dieseldorff & Co., H. R., 395 Broadway.
Clarke, Wilson & Co., 81 Beekman-street. Derby & Jackson, 119 Nassau-street.
Curtis, Joseph, 364 Broadway.           Davis, W. H., 50 Exchange Place.
Curtis, Alfred L., 364 Broadway.        De Escoriaza, J. V. G., 10 Broadway.
Commerford, Chas. C., 454 Broadway.    Dow, Aug. F., 89 Wall-street.
Cheesman, Oscar, 145 Duane-street.      Driggs & Co., M. S., 278 & 280 South-st.
Catlin, C. T., 25 William-street.       Davis, Jas. L., 184 South-street.
DeGraff, L., 19 Jay-street.
DAY, Henry, 12 Wall-street.             Davidson & Lazarus, 26 Dey-street.
De Forest, Armstrong & Co. 80 and 82 Duckworth & Hayn, 80 Dey-street.
Chambers-street.                      Denison & Wyckoff, 82 and 84 Dey-street.
Dayton & Gilder, 35 Chambers-street.    Demarest, G. W., 177 Reade-street.
Dewitt, Chas. A., 82 Broadway.          Duncan & Son, John, 405 Broadway.
De Angelis, Gideon, 33 Wall-street.     Dayton, Lyman & Co., 1082 Broadway.
Dusenbery, Wm. Cox, 142 Broadway.    Danforth, Sylvester & Co., 504 Broadway.
Drumgold, L., 177 South-street.         Dodd, M. W., 506 Broadway.
De Forest & Co., W. W., 82 South-street. Dennis, Chas., Vice-President Atlantic
De Camp, R. L., 212 Front-street.         Mutual Insurance Company.
Decker, D. H., 55 Whitehall-street.     Dronge, Clause, 206 William-street.
Dimon, F., 67 South-street.             Dunham, Edward, 13 William-street.
Dodge, Wm. H., 59 Beaver-street.        De Salvo, F. G., 3 South William-street.
Dibble, E. A., 9 Beaver-street.         De Penmeret & Co., 9 South William-st.
Douglass, Geo. E., 19 Beaver-street.    Dutilh & Co., 23 South William-street.
De Rham, H. C., 24 Fifth Avenue.        Davis, G. L., 58 Beekman-street.
Duer, Denning, 53 William-street.       Danforth, J., 15 Gold-street.
Dinsmore, W. B., 59 Broadway.           Demyer, Henry M., 309 Pearl-street.
Deuel & Co., 159 Chambers-street.       Dupignac, Jr., E. R., 8 Peck Slip.
Dickie, H. P., 144 Chambers-street.     Dunning, J., 227 Greenwich-street.
Deen, John L., 78 Water-street.         Dunniers, John A., 200 Greenwich-street.
Durkee & Hough, 85 Water-street.        De Mier, Juan C., 60 Pine-street.
Dayton & Co., 186 Front-street.         Dike Brothers, 66 Pine-street.
Daters & Co., 161 Front-street.         Dike, H. A., 66 Pine-street.
Davis, Morris & Co., 87 Wall-street.    Dillon & McDonagh, 299 Greenwich-st.
Daytonl, J. O. & Co., 107 Front-street.    Dorr & Son, 339 Greenwich-street.
Deiser, Thos. R., 117 Maiden Lane.      Drake, John J., 28 Spruce-street.
Dibble & Bunce, 119 Maiden Lane.        Dudley & Stafford, 69 Beekman-street.
Dickinson, Whittemore & Reed, 245, 247 Douglas Manuf. Co., 68 Beekman-street.
and 249 Water-street.                 Davis, C. & J., 225 Fulton-street.
De Witt & Bro., G., 109 John-street.    Dyer, H. Ballard, 25 Park Row.
Durfee, S. L., 34 Broadway.             Day, M. W., Beeikman-street.
Dunning, A. A., 252 Broadway.           Dart & Co., James, 50 Exchange Place.
Dohrmann & Bernett, 273 Washington-st. Duffey, J. P., 35 William-street.
Dodge, Levi, 62 South-street.           Dean, R. E., 442 Broadway.
Dammarell, James, 69 South-street.      Dudley, M. & Penn, 97 Pearl-street.
Dennis & Co., Samuel, 71 Dey-street.
Darden, Geo., 96 Liberty-street.        EARLE, John K., 10 Beaver-street.
Dittman, Isidor, 117 Liberty-street.    Egleston, Battell & Co., 166 South-street.
Doubleday & Beak, 49 Murray-street.    Ernst, Franklin, 193 Broadway.




6
Ely, Thomas, 25 Beaver-street.           French, George H., 313 Broadway.
Ely, James, 25 Beaver-street.            Fordham, George W., 15 Merchants' Ex.
Ellis, Bennett & Co., 151 Chambers-street. Fitch, George P., 20 Exchange Place.
Ely, Dudley P., 140 Front-street.        Fall, Robert H., 69 Wall-street.
Engs & Sons, P. W., 131 Front-street.    Fox, George S. 61 Wall-street.
Evans, Henry G., 85 Maiden Lane.         Fitch, Harvey, 245 Front-street.
Elliott, J.. 93 John-street.             Frank & Co., Gustave, 222 Front-st.
Esenwein, F., 171 Broadway.              Freeborn & Co., Wmin. A., 254 South-st.
Elliott & Co., H. G., 182 and 184 Green- Field, C. A., 40 Peck Slip.
wich-street.                           Fridenberg & Wolf, 29 Dey-street.
Eckerson, Jacob, 165 West-street.        Foote, J. A., 64 Whitehall-street.
Eastman, Bigelow & Dayton, 332 Broad- Foote & Co., 101 Pearl-street.
way.                                   Fuller Brothers, 36 Warren-street.
Eager, J. & J., 34 Cliff-street.         Fink & Hencken, 191 and 193 Duane-st.
Ellis, Robert H., 19 and 21 Merchant's Ex. Foster, Abram K., 63 Pine-street.
Ermand, W. G. Dey, 20 Exchange Place.  Faye, Jas., 532 Broadway.
Elastic Cone Spring Co., 48 ExchangeP1. Fagan, Patrick, 544 Broadway.
Eastwood, C. W., 76 Reade-street.        Francis, Daniel G., 554 Broadway.
Edmoston, S. S., 213 Duane-street.       Francis, C. S., 554 Broadway.
Evans, Henry, Deposit, N. Y.             Fawcett, F. & L., 70 Gold-street.
Edgerton, L., 292 Broadway.              Fraser, Alexander, 13 Barclay-street.
Emery, G. W., 522 Broadway.              Frobisher, H. W., 212 Greenwich-street.
Edwards, A. W., 54 Gold-street.          Fuller, Walter, 209 Greenwich-street.
Edmun & Bowly, 13 South William-st.    Fenner &  Hardenbergh, 313 and 315
Ely, Eugene, 57 Gold-street.                Greenwich-street.
Ember, W., 58 Beekman-street.            Fawcett, Thomas, 70 Gold-street.
Earl & Bartholomew, 196 Greenwich-st.  Foster, J. W., 80 Beekman-street.
Eberhard, A., 328 Greenwich-street.      Fellows, Hoffman &Co. 74 Beekmau-st.
Ely, Jr., Smith, 103 Gold-street.        Fersenheim, H., 76 Beekman-street.
Ely, Henry G., 31 Ferry-street.          Fowler, M. V. B., 49 Wall-street.
Emmet, William J., 91 Beaver-street.     Ford, A. L., 23 Park Row.
Fisher, N., 25 Park Row.
FALLS, M., 16 Broadway.                  Fosdick, William R., 1 Beaver-street.
France, Richard, 61 Chambers-st.
Frothinghan & Baylis, 80 South-street.   GARTHI-IWAITE, Darcy & Co.,45 ChamFish & Co., J. D., 105 South-street.       bers-street.
Fellows, Geo. A., 14 and 16 Beaver-st.    Graham, N. B., 110 Broadway.
Faber, H. E., 36 Beaver-street.          Green & Co., Wm. L., 58 Water-street.
Franchere, Gabriel, 12 Broadway.         Gordon & Co., 0. H., 155 Maiden Lane.
Fleming & McKennee, 163 Chambers-st.  Gilman, Samuel, 91 Beaver-street.
Faile, Williams & Co., 192 alhd 194 Cham- Green, Jno. C., 10 Washington Square.
bers-street.                           Goldschmidt, C. H., 38 Beaver-street.
Fowler, F. R. & W. C., 142 Front-street.  Garhue & Davis, 121 Chambers-street.
Fatman & Cardoza, 166 Front-street.      Gerard, Wm., 106 Wall-street.
Finch & Sons, R. R., 238 Water-street.    Gaynor, John, 561 Broadway.
Farmer, Wm. G., 171 Broadway.            Gilbert, John A., 23 Park Row.
Foster, V. W., 52 Barclay-street.        Gould & Co., R. S., 267 Greenwich-street.
Flye, W., 53 South-street.               Guth & Brother, Jno., 68 Dey-street.
Fox, Jno. W., 89 Liberty-street.         Goldstein & Lowenstein, 113 Liberty-st.
Fitch, Halsey, 111 Liberty-street.       Garett, George, 22 Cedar-street.
Fowler, F. J. D., 85 West-street.        Grapel, W., 51 Cedar-street.
Farrington, G. B., 324 Broadway.         Gespritz, 65 Maiden Lane,
Foote, T. C., 334 Broadway.              Gaudelet & Gonv6, 97 William-street.
Felt, David, 120 William-street.         Gensler, Louis, 99 William-street.
Ferner & Bremshaer, 101 William-street.  Gunther & Sons, C. G., 46 Maiden Lane.
Fleet & Co., 0. S., 62 Maiden Lane.      Greig, James, 112 Fulton-street.
Freeman, Ryer & Co., 23 Maiden Lane.   Gaseier, Joseph, 128 Fulton-street.
Freeman, A., 84 Fulton-street.           Gomez, Wallis & Co., 29 South Wm-st.
Fowler, S. L., 98 Fulton-street.         Gilchrist & Son, 72 Water-street.
Fuller, E., 52 Cliff-street.             Grove & Co., William, 23 Southh-street.
Frame, Joseph L., 237 West 28th-street.  Gourlie, 3McGee & Miller, 5 Hanover-st.
Ferguson Brothers, 351 Broadway.         Gerety, Francis, 8 Old Slip.
Foster, Henry, 267 Broadway.             Goulding, S. & J., 325 Broadway.




Gantz, John W., 353 Broadway.          Hegeman & Co., 161 Broadway.
Giddings & Hixon, 303 ilroadway.       Hurd, W. C., 183 Broadway.
Gilbert, H. L., Metropolitan Hotel.    Hersey, J. D. T., 187 Broadway.
Greenleaf, E. B., 50 Exchange Place.   Hoyt, F. S., 58 Barclay-street.
Gillespie, A. O., 137 Second Avenue.   Halsey & Co., Jno. J., 267 Broadway.
Gray, William N., 114 West 34th-street.  Hyatt, Walter, 291 Washington-street.
Gall, Henry, 92 Sixth-street.          Hopping & Co., A. D., 214 Washington-st.
Gilman, George F., 98 Gold-street.     Harris, L. M., Jr., 62 South-street.
Griffard & Co., J. J., 20 Maiden Lane.    Heath, Wynkoop & Co., 63 Liberty-st.
Goodwin & Cort, 258 Water-street.      Howland, William, 34 Liberty-street.
Gasquoine, Samuel, 70~ Pine-street.    Harral, Risley & Kitchin, 76 Barclay-st.
Godfrey & Sons, E., 34 Spruce-street.  Haydock, Bobert, 101 Liberty-street.
Garnar, Thomas, 32 Spruce-street.      Hardple, Emanuel.
Gillespie & Studwell, 33 Spruce street.   Howell & Co., Wharton A., 97 Liberty- st.
Gray, James, 16 Spruce-street.         Hyde, John H., 89 Liherty-street.
Gettv, S. E., 108 Morton-street.       Hyman, Henry, 112 Liberty-street.
Goetze, A., 19 Spruce-street.          Hieghts & Joidor, 113 Liberty-street.
Gray Brothers, 69 Beekman-street.      Hamm & Rosenheim, 111 Liberty-street.
Gunnison, A. C., 51 Exchange Place.    Hedges & Powers, 51 Murray-street.
Gilman, A,, 47 Exchange Place.         Hersh & Rice, 39 Murray-street.
Gibson, Wood, 362 Broadway.            Hooley & Co., Abraham, 35 Murray-st.
Gelston, Wm. J., 76 Wall-street.       Hyne, C. H., 314 Broadway.
Grant, R., 65 Pine-street.             Hadden, W. A., 340 Broadway.
Grayden, Swanwick & Co., 43 Park Place. Haines, S., 117 Warren-street.
Haring, Winm., 177 West-street.
HASTINGS, Plimpton & Co., 51 Chamin- Holden, Hawley & Co., 11 and 13 Cliff-st.
bers-street.                         Hammond, W. P., 12 Cedar-street.
Hay, Silas C., 82 Broadway.            Hendrickson & Shattuck, 22 Cedar-st.
Hollister, E. R.                       EIure, Ernest, 189 Pearl-street.
Hoyt, Geo. A.                          Hopkins &.Brother, F., 193 Pearl-street.
Hayward, Abner.                        Hooper & Bartlett, 158 William-street.
Hinrichs, C. F. A., 150 Broadway.      Horn, Albert, 23 Lamartine Place.
Haight & Ewens, 226 Front-street.      Howard & Mather, 66 William-street.
Harris, Chas. J., 244 Front-street.    Hermann & Bloomingdale, 93 William-st.
Hoyt & Co., Thos., 258 and 260 Frontst. Hahlin & Stieghtz, 95 William-street.
Holcomb, C. M., 288 Front-street.      Hagar & Co., Wm., Jr., 38 Gold-street.
Hathaway, Francis, 80 South-stseet.    Flicks & Betts, 72 Maiden Lane.
Hayden, Nath'l, 192 Broadway.          Horsey, Jr., Joseph, 84 Maiden Lane.
Hubbell, Harvey, 202 Broadway.         Hewett, M. T., 112 Fulton-street.
Hoyt, Wm. W., 201 Broadway.            Hearn, John, 29 South William-street.
Hewlett, C. Sidney, 109 South-street.    Herckenratlt, Schneider & Co., 21 South
Holmes, J. M., 2 Coenties Slip.          William-street.
Herrick & Son, J. B., 10 South-street.  Haydock, E. M., 278 Pearl-street.
Hopkins, S. W., 72 Beaver-street.      Hurman, William N., 278 Pearl-street.
Hynard, M., 5th Ward Hotel.            Hickcox, T. W., 280 Pearl-street.
Hull & Holt, 202 Chambers-street.      Honser & Brother, Thomas, 88 Ferry-st.
Hall, Wm., 176 Chambers-street.        Howes, Henry, 6 Coenties Slip.
Hanford & Co., E.H., 154 Chambers-st.  Hull, George C., 2 Hanover-street.
Hall, Dixon & Co., 149 Chambers-street.  Hamersley, John W., Bond-street.
Homans, Sheppard, 94 Broadway.         Hoffman, William B., 24 East 18th-street.
Hawley, Irad, 47 Fifth Avenue.         Henderson, Alex., 326 Broadway.
Hexisner, Wm., 112 Pearl-street.       Henderson, Thomas A., 326 Broadway.
Hoffman, Emanuel, 140 Water-street.    Hazard & Browning, 326 Broadway.
Hammill, Jas. P., 155 Water-street.    Hayden, F. M., 337 Broadway.
Hunter, & Co., Jas., 174 Front-street.    Hart & Brother, B. J., 297 Broadway.
Holt & Sons, P., 188 Front-street.     Humphrey, H. D., 26 Abingdon Square.
Howell & Co., Win. E., 167 Front-street. Hyde, A. G., 41 and 43 Warren-street.
Hussey, Wm. H., 115 Maiden Lane.       Howell, Foster & Wilson, 65 Warren-st.
Hazard, J. H., 121 Maiden Lane.        Hodges, George W., 42 Exchange Place.
Hammann, 264 Water-street.             Hassal, Alfred J., 63 Wall-street.
Hall, Wm. H., 163 Maiden Lane.         Husta, S.
Hodges, Henry, 187 Broadway.           Hicks, John J., 206 South-street.
Hitchcock, W. G., 187 Broadway.        Hubbard & Co., J. W., 179 South-street.




8
Hewins, M. K., 36 Peck Slip.            James, Ely, 25 Beaver-street.
Holland, John F., Newark Av., Jer. City. Johnston, James, 93 Maiden Lane.
Hoppock & Co., 65 Dey-street.           Jennings Brothers, 5 Burling Slip.
Hazenfrau, Win. H., 41 Montgomery-st.  Jordan, Geo. W., 53 South-street.
Hurlbut, Van Volkenburgh &  Co., 64 Jones & Smith, 89 Liberty-street.
Reade-street.                        Jacobsohn & Schleestein, 115 Liberty-st.
Hoyt & Co., N. W., 187 Reade-street.    Johns & Crosby, 510 Broadway.
Halsey & Northrum, 191 Reade-street.   Jaudon, Peyton & Frank, 17 William-st.
Hopke, E. F. & M., 307 Washington-st.   Jackson, Jno., 8 South William-street.
Hoyt & Brother, E. T., 159 Duane-street. Jordan, L., 11 Gold-street.
Hasseldick, Meyer &Brettman, 199 Duane Jones, Wm. B., 8 Spruce-street.
street.                              Jessup, Cole & Co., 327 Greenwich-street.
Hale, Frederick, 46 Beekman-street.     Johnson & Bliss, 193 Washington-street.
Hicks, Willet, 116 Maiden Lane.         Jordan, C., 23 Park Row.
Hill & Co., Thomas, 15 Gold-street.     Jennings, E., 454 Broadway.
Holcomb, Henry, 181 South-street.       Johnson, N., 332 Broadway.
Harral, Risley & Kitchen, 76 Barclay-st.  Johnson, S. F., 332 Broadway.
Hall, William H., 212 Greenwich-street.  Jones, J. D., 51 Wall-street.
Holmes, George W., 227 Greenwich-st.  Jenkins, J. C., 69 Liberty-street.
Hopkins, Horace E., 89 Maiden Lane.    Jannist, Anderson & Co., 67 Pine-street.
Hoe & Co., R., 29 and 31 Gold-street.    Jennings, Wm., F., 566 Broadway.
Hapgood, D. M., 36 Spruce-street.      Johnson, Wm. B., 406 Broadway.
Holcombe & Son, S. Q., 17 James Slip.   Jenks, L., New-York.
Hicks & Wells, 580 Washington-street.   Jones, R. C., 60 Cedar-street.
Harriott & Son, Warren, 124 Charles-st.  Japha, Samuel, 104 William-street.
Horton & Lewis, 352 West-street.        Jaquays, A. W., 66 Maiden Lane.
Henniston & Nichols, 289 Greenwich-st.  Jones, Little & Buell, 139 Fulton-street.
Hall & Co., Francis C., 282 Greenwich-st. Jenkins, E. F., 1 Hanover-street.
*Herrick, W., 252 Greenwich-street.     Jones & Hanabergh, 285 Broadway.
Hampton, Adam, 60 Gold-street.          Jackson, Frank C., 155 South-street.
Hoyt, J. B., 28 Spruce-street.
Hill, William W., 83 Beekman-street.   KIINNILLY, W. A., 88 Chambers-street.
Harmer, Hays & Co., 72 Beekman-street. King, E. J., 62 Broadway.
Hawkes, Clement, 74 Beekman-street.    Knapp, Shepherd, 33 Wall-street.
Hard, Melvin, 44 Beekman-street.        Ketchum, H. F., 67 South-street.
Hart, J., 20 Beekman-street.            Kemeys, Winm., 69 Beaver-street.
Hayes, William, 23 Park Row.            Kennedy, Robert Lenox, 99 Fifth Avenue.
Hewitt & Co., 55 Exchange Place.        Keeler, W. M. & C. C., 145 Chambers-st.
Hull, John W., 41 Exchange Place.       Keeler, Wm. A., 109 Front-street.
Hanford, Joseph F., 364 Broadway.       Kissam & Keeler, 90 John-street.
Hedge, George W., 442 Broadway.         Kingsland & Co.,J. D., 104 and 106 John-st.
Hoag, Harny, 75 Pine-street.            Kettell, Thos. P., 142 Fulton-street.
Hatch, W. T., 292 Broadway.             Kopp, 0. H., 173 Broadway,
Hobe & Son, A. F., 484 Broadway.        King, Mark J., 54 Broadway.
Hunt, J., 430 Broadway.                 Ketcham, A.W., 752 Broadway.
Hunt, Tillinghast & Co., 15 Park Place.  Kerneys & Ross., 279 Washington-street.
Hurd & Giles, 13 Park Place.            Kaupe, E. & Cummings, 88 Liberty street.
Halsted, Haines & Co., 60 Murray-street. Kohas, L. & Bro., 91 Liberty-street.
Holmes, J., 88 Wall-street.             Kinsey, John D., 212 West-street.
Howes, D. W., 29 Wall-street.           Kerr, L., 7 Gramercy Place.
King, John S.
IRVING,Wheeler & Co., 43 Chambers-st. Kellogg, L. E., 324 Broadway.
Isham, S. & C. H., 91 Gold-street.      Korham, A., William-street.
Isham, Winm. B., 93 Gold-street.        Klauberg, Carl, 195 William-street.
Iram, James H., 193 Broome-street.      Kendall, Arthur, 5 South William-street.
Ingalls, T. C., 17 Beekman-street.      Knox, Alexander, 5 Pine-street.
King, David, 175 Pearl-street.
JANES, M., 82 Broadway.                 King, James G., 45 East 21st-street.
Jones & Co., 242 Front-street.          Kissam, R. A., 2 Jacob-street.
Jackson & Co. W., 246 Front-street.     Keese & Pearsall, 101 Gold-street.
Jackson, John L., 193 Broadway.         Kumbel & Son, Win., 33 Ferry-street.
Josephs, John, 157 South-street.        Kitchen, Montross & Wilcox, 360 B'way.
Jenkins, W. A., 69 Liberty-street.      Kissam, G. A., 45 Cedar-street.




Kiggins & Kellogg, 125 William-street.   Leuzmann, Charles, 54 Cedar-street.
Kemkamp, L., 159 William-street.        Lynch, Thomas, 7 Cedar-street.
Kittell & Klugerberg, 60 Maiden Lane.   Lawrence, J. M., 184 William-street.
Kaulbuch, & Co., 96 Fulton-street.      Lawrence & Co., William-street.
King, John, 326 Broadway.               Lippmann & Bro., M., 150 William-street.
Knight, R. H., 385 Broadway.            Lindmark, M. N., 72 William-street.
Ketchum, Son & Co., 40 Exchange Place. Lazell, Marsh & Gardiner, 10 Gold-st.
Kirby, John W., 108 Broadway.           Lane, Jr., Stephen, 127 William-street,
Kelbener, J. & Heller, 69 Warren-street. Lemon, S. H., 63 William-street.
Keep, Henry, 20 Exchange Place.         La Mott, H., 128 Fulton-street.
Kendall, Geo. W., 117 Wall-street.      Lavery, Samuel, 139 Fulton-street.
Kruger, F. J., 117 Wall-street.         Lafraniere, Oliver, 280 Pearl-street.
Kirtland, F. S., 388 Broadway.          Lunt, B. P. & G. D., 28 South-street.
Kempf, Roman, 215 West 38th-street.     Lamont, Chas. A., 159 Pearl-street.
Knapp, F. S., 4 Broad-street.           Lane, Nathan, 69 Wall-street.
Kimball, T. C., 85 Dey-street.          Lyon, J. F., 388 Broadway.
Kingsbury, John A., 46 Cortlandt-street. Leggett & Son, Abraham, 205 Front-st.
Kirkpatrick, R. F., 71 Pine-street.     Lager, Jno., 44 Gold-street.
Kirtland, Wm. H., 388 Broadway.         Ludlow, Patton &z Co., 19 William-street.
Kilner, James, 608 Broadway.            Lindsay, Jr., G. R., 19 William-street.
Knoedler,'M., 366 Broadway.             Ludmann, C., 6 South William-street.
Livingston, Edward, 9 South William-st.
LAMPORT, H. H., 45 Ninth-street.    Lawrence, Giles & Co., 11 South Wm.-st.
Laurance, Jno. J., 264 Fourth-street.   Legien, H. L., 57 Gold-street.
Loder & Lockwood, 126 and 128 Cham- Lowerre, Thos. H., 9 Gold-street.
bers-street.                          Leverett & Co., Josiah S., 89 Maiden Lane.
Leavitt, Toler & Co., 31 Chambers-street. Leupp & Co., Chas. M., 20 Ferry-street.
Lambert & Co., Edward, 55 Chambers-st. Lord, C., 16 Spruce street.
Lansing, B. B., 72 Broadway.            Lee, W. Creighton, 2 Jacob-street.
Lansing, H. S., 72 Broadway.            Lapham, H. G., 28 Ferry-street,
Lewis, Wm. E., 164 Broadway.            Ludlam, William, 126 Beekman-street.
Linington, S., 216 Front-street.        Lewis & Co., Jno. W., 534 Washington-st.
Leggett & Son, A., 205 Front-street.    Loveland & Welsh, 381 West-street.
Little, Chas. F., 200 Broadway.         Loring, Andrews -& Co.,'72 Gold-street.
Lersner, E., 201 Broadway.              Leggett, Reuben, 40 Spruce-street.
Lewis, Arnold A., 42 Front-street.      Lyon & Son, Wm. P., 29 Beekman-street.
Lynch, Thomas, 7 Cedar-street.          Liebenroth & Co., A., 25 Beekman-street.
Lichtenstein, J. P., 161 Chambers-street.  Laland & Crossjean, 70 Beekman-street.
Lester, Andrew, 103 Chambers-street.    Lefferts & Bro., M., 90 and 92 Beekman-st.
Leavitt & Smith, 164 Front-street.      Lee, James, 49 Wall-street.
Lane & Co., Geo. W., 173 Front-street.   La Rue, Aaron, 364 Broadway.
Lowber, Robert W., 61 Wall-street.      Lindsley, Caleb F., 22 Broad-street.
Lowerre, Wm. J., 117 Maiden Lane.       Lee & Co., Wm. H., 314 and 316 Broadway.
Levy, Henry, 49 Maiden Lane.            Lyon, Geo. W., 336 Broadway,
Lord, J. A., 87 John-street.            Langdon, C. H., 336 Broadway.
Lawrence & Sons, Henry, 80 John-street. Lazell, Stephen, 320 and 322 Broadway.
Le Roy & Co., Thos. Otis, 261 and 263
Water-street.                         MacDONALD, C. H., 34 Wall-street.
Lee, Robert B., 167 Broadway.           Macy, F. W., 12 Wall-street.
Lina & Co., 52 Broadway.                Mulligan, Wm., 10 Wall-street.
Lockwood, Jno. B.                       Morrison, Hurd & Co., 35 Chlambers-street.
Loeschigk, 0., 227 West 31st-street.    Mygatts, Ingraham & Co., 43 Chambers-st.
Lee, Benj, F., 45 Liberty-street.       McMeney, Robert, 61 Chambers-street.
Lawrence & Co., L. S., 164 Nassau-street. Mann & Co., Edward J.
Leerburger & Rubens, 47 Dey-street.     Marsh, T. B., 82 Broadway.
Lynch, M. A. J., 4 Erie Building.       McKay, J., 82 Broadway.
Lane, R. H., 205 Duantie-street.        Myers, Joseph S., 62 Broadway.
Ladd, E. H., 500 Broadway.              Murphy, Lawrence, 19 Wall-street.
Ladd, T. C., 500 Broadway.              Mills, E., 11 East 29th-street.
Lambert, F. L., 340 Broadway.           Maverick, B., 135 Grand-street.
Lawson, J. D., 364 Broadway.            Murray, Jr., Byron, 128 Broadway.
Lesher & Whitman, 8 Park Place.         McCarthy, John, 183 Broadway.
Livingston, Crocheron & Co., 1 Park Place. Mills, Merritt & Co., 250 and 252 Front-st.




10
Manwaring, D. W., 248 Front-street.     Munroe, E. S., 17 William-street.
Miller, H. R., 179 South-street.        Mayer, J. & G.
Maxwell, John T. B.. 77 South-street.    Maghee, Thos. H.
Morrison, John B., 204 Broadway.        Mila, George, 22 South William-street.
McWhood, E., 142 Fulton-street.         Moring, H. E., 16 South William-street.
Morris, J. C., 203 Broadway.            Makas, Louis, 9 South William-street.
Messenger, W. H., 225 Front-street.     McFarlan, Henry, 17 South William-st.
Meerds, C., 23 Old Slip.                Montgomery, J. P., 56 Beekman-street.
Minturn, R. B., 78 South-street.        Maguire, Charles, 128 Maiden Lane.
Meyer, James, 43 Beaver-street.         Marshall, Win. H., 5 Gold-street.
Mairet, Barber & Co., 49 Beaver-street.  Miller, George, 210 Greenwich-street.
Monaghan, P. 51 Beaver-street.          McClusky, James, 208 Greenwich-street.
Molloy, D. O., 59 Beaver-street.        Mowbray, John, 74 West-street.
McKay & Cornelison, 84 Cedar-street.    Mirick Brothers, 16 Spruce-street.
Magraw, H., 9 Beaver-street.            Morrell, Jno. H., 129 Roosevelt-street.
McGuire, Jno., 25 Beaver-street.        Martin & Corey, 283 Greenwich-street.
McCormick, James, 29 Beaver-street.     Morrison, Jas. J., 318 Greenwich-street.
McAtavey, Francis, 29 Beaver-street.    Mattison & Co., M., 36 Spruce-street.
Muren & Bonner, 28 Broad-street.        Melvin & Danforth, 26 Spruce-street.
Marchant, Jr., H., 48 Beaver-street.    Mayer, Bernard, 80 Beekman-street.
Marchant, Henry, 48 Beaver-street.      Meriden, Cutlery Co., 45 Beekman-street.
McMullen, Thomas, 44 Beaver-street.     Meyer, E., 17 Beekman-street.
Motley, James M., 16 Broadway.          Malford & Cary, 27 Spruce-street.
Mears, Charles E., 17 Murray-street.    Merritt & Brown, 18 Beekman-street.
Morse, E. W., Wall-street.              Mott, Jr., Wm. F., 16 Beekman-street.
Mills & Co., John, 14 Broadway.         Moseman, J. H., 120 Beekman-street.
McLanahan, James X., 14 Broadway.    Milne, Robert, 49 Wall-street.
Magee, James, 14 Broadway.              Maas, M., 29 Park row.
Mott, R. W., 4 Broadway.                Martin, R. M., 52 Exchange Place.
Me Arthur, Josiah, 175 Chambers-street.  Montgomery, H., 27 Wall-street.
Morje & Wix, 154 Chambers-street.       Moriarty, J. D., 442 Broadway.
Mitchell & Worcester, 146 Chambers-st.  Milford, Henry E., 458 Broadway.
McEwing &.Snyder, 103 Chambers-street. Mears, John, 179 Pearl-street.
Morrison & Son, David, 111 Chambers-st. Murray, R., New-York.
McKim, T., 16 Broadway.                 Morrispat, Louis, 101 William-street.
McMillan, Rob't H., 110 Broadway.       Markz, B., 107 William-street.
Mayher, John, 180 Broadway.             Macy, Wm. H., 45 William-street.
McLaughlin, John, 180 Front-street.     Meinell, James, 207 West 14th-street.
Macy's Sons, Josiah, 189 Front-street.  Monash, H., 69 William-street.
Meekan & Son, C. H., 97 Maiden Lane.   Mann, A., 96 Maiden Lane.
McKewan, John, 55 Maiden Lane.          Maloy, E. L., 98 Fulton-street.
Messenger, H., 161 Maiden Lane.         Magnus Bros., 104 Fulton-street.
Moore, Alfred, 141 Broadway.            Monell, W. J., 127 Fulton-street.
McDonald & Anchler, 183 Broadway.    Mann, Geo. C., 141 Fulton-street.
Martens, F. W., 83 Wall-street.         Mott, Jno. W., 36 South-street.
Marx, Shultz & Co., 44 Barclay-street.    Millet, Winm. E., 329 Broadway.
Mead, Hiram W., 58 Barclay-street.      Mountain, 353 Broadway.
Miller, S. B., 292 Washington-street.   Mellys, James T., 285 Broadway.
Mackus & Co., Jos. P., 281 Washington-st. Morrell, Daniel, 29 Merchants' Exchange.
Meyer & Fincke, 271 Washington-street.  Meigs, Chas. A., 50 Exchange Place.
Murray, D. C., 62 South-street.         Maxwell, Lascelles E., 69 Wall-street.
Mallett, Peter, 62 South-street.        Maxwell, Jno., 69 Wall-street.
Macy & Jenkins, 67 Liberty-street.      Murray, Jno. W., 65 Wall-street.
McMichael, J., 56 Liberty-street.       Merrell, Winm. R., 61 Wall-street.
Mease, Charles B., 34 Liberty-street.   Marckwald, Jr., M. B.
Morgan, Jas. K., 192 Greenwich-street.   Meade, Geo. N. F., 85 West 14th-street.
Mackin & Brother, 103 Liberty-street.    Moore, L. H., 212 Front-street.
Meyers & Sondheim, 89 Liberty-street.   Marsh, Hiram, 206 Front-street.
Martin, M. C., 107 Liberty-street.      Mott & Son, Jno. G., 122 Beekman-street.
Marston & Powers, 95 Beaver-street.     Miller, A. B., 271 Southrstreet.
McClellan, Edward, 94 Gold-street.      Miller & Conger, 271 South-street.
Mahr, George, 193 William-street.       Monk, W. W., 205 South-street.
Mayer, Wm., 196 William-street.         Mitchell, W. L., 162 South-street.




11
Mullender, J. G.                         Olmstead, Jno. A., 171 William-street.
Meeker, J. C., 55 Dey-street.            Olyphant, G. Talbot, 23 William-street.
Mecklem & Co., 287 Greenwich-street.   Ogden, M. C., 53 Cliff-street.
Myers, W. H. & F. R., 165 Duane-street.  Oothout & Bro., Wm., 3 Cliff-street.
MacBride, J. H., 298 Washington-street.  Olds, E. B., 332 Broadway.
Merchant, John, 199 Chambers-street.     Osborn, L. A., 92 Warren-street.
Miller & Carpenter, 8 Erie Building.     Ogden, Wm., 103 Water-street.
Montgomery, Wm., 65 Pine-street.         Ottinger & Goldstein, 35 Dey-street.
Maple, C., 53 Pine-street.               Oakley & Pendleton, 56 Pine-street.
Magonigle, J. Henry, 404'Broadway.
Morris, M., 508 Broadway.               PECK, Cyrus, 18 Wall-street.
MacDonald, E., 522 Broadway.             Pinneo & Co., 76 Chambers-street.
Mount, Hall & Co., 49 Park Place.        Pays, Walter K., 31 Wall-street.
Matthews, E. B., 1 Park Place.           Pratt, Charles H., 85 South-street.
Marsh & Co., T. W. & A., 153 West-street. Power, J. N., 192 Broadway.
Mead & Co., W. A., 338 Broadway.         Platt, Cornelius, 210 Broadway.
Martin, R. M., 52 Exchange Place.        Pryer & Co., James, 217 Front-street.
Mullany, E. B., 41 Murray-street.        Pomeroy & Co., A. H., 4 South-street.
Pares, Francis, 828 Broadway.
NORTH, Sherman & Co., 98 Chambers. Penfold & Schuyler, 178 Front-street.
Nichols, C. E., 19 Wall-street.          Peck, Stoughton & Co., 191 Front-street.
Nessleye, J. H. H.                       Pyle, James, 345 Washington-street.
Newman & Co., W. H., 78 Pearl-street.   Pawling, L., 105 Front-street.
Newbold, C., 98 Broadway.                Peters, E. J., 53 South-street.
Nelson, R., 152 Broadway.                Peck, William T., 98 John-street.
Noyes, R. S., St. Mark's Place.          Prosser & Son, Thomas, 28 Platt-street.
Nichols, Burtnett & Co., 51 Maiden Lane. Perkins, G. Deming, 187 Broadway.
Napier, Alexander D., 187 Broadway.    Poag, John, 171 Broadway.
Nevers, Copland & McLaren, 187 Broad- Phelps, William H., 38 Broadway.
way.                                  Pendexter, G. F., 252 Broadway.
Neilson & Anthony, 62 Liberty-street.   Peck, Edwin, 254 Broadway.
Newland, J. J., 96 Liberty-street.       Patten & Samson, 265 Washington-street.
Norton, H. L., 100 Liberty-street.       Parker, Geo. C. & Bro., 2.59 Washington.
Nemburges & Co., L., 112 Liberty-street. Peters, Wm. B., 156 South-street.
Noe, P. F., Wall-street.                 Peck & Samter, 117 Liberty-street.
Norton & Wood, 157 Duane-street.        Power, J. W., 192 Broadway.
Noble, Brown & Co., 125 and 127 Duane-st. Parmenter, H., 10 Cedar-street.
Newell & Beers, 34 Cedar-street.        Phineas, Myer, 100 William-street.
Nicolay, A. H., 52 William-street.      Pfizer & Co., Charles, 90 William-street.
Nagle, C., 74 Maiden Lane.               Pettit, S., 152 Fulton-street.
Nye, Ezra, 17 South-street.             Pearson, Jr., Samuel, 150 Fulton-street.
Notman, P., 67 Wall-street.             Phillips, H., 126 Fulton-street.
Nevers, Wm. G., 101 Wall-street.        Poppenhusen & Konig, 44 Cliff-street.
Nixon & Son, J. C., 173 William-street.   Potter, M. L., 28 South-street.
Nicholl, Jno., 183 William-street.      Phillips & Oakley, 3 Hanover-street.
Neidig, Chas., 203 William-street.      Penney, T. W., 326 Broadway.
Norris & Gregg, 62 and 64 Gold-street.   Porter & Co., A. D., 327 Broadway.
Nesbitt, Joseph, 74 Beekman-street.     Perego & Son, 381 Broadway.
Nagell, Geo., Beekman-street.           Peno, Chas. H., 61 Wall-street.
Paddock & Co., F. A., 83 Wall-street.
O'DONOGHUE 8& Sons, Jno., 239 Front. Prime & Woolsey, 213 Front-street.
Osborn, John, 45 Beaver-street.         Purdy, A. B., 194 West-street.
O'Malley, D., 59 Beaver-street.         Poillon, John H., 68 Murray-street.
O'Toole, John, 21 Beaver-street.        Platt, John R., 79 Murray-street.
Overton, James L., 174 Front-street.    Porteus & Co., James A., 65 Murray-st.
O'Neill, David, 192 Front-street.       Prankard, F. T. & W. C., 59 Murray-st.
Onativia & Co., J. V., 47 South-street.    Pratt, Oakley & Co., 21 Murray-street.
Oliver, Hannah & Co., 92 John-street.    Pike, Jr., Benj., 294 Broadway.
Oppenheim &  Co., J. M., 60 Broadway.   Partridge, Son & Co., William, 27 Cliff-st.
Opdyke, George, 36 & 38 Barclay-street. Phelps, Dodge & Co., 61 and 63 Cliff-st.
Oliver, Marshall, 60 Barclay-street.    Park & Co., Rufus, 63 Dey-street.
Oakes, Josiah, 22 Cedar-street.         Plunkett, A., 85 Liberty-street.
Oaksmith & Co., 112 William-street.     Perry, Jr., Geo. T., 29 Cortlandt-street.




12
Peck, Wm. B., 5 and 7 Stone-street.     Recknagel & Co., 46 Cedar-street.
Peck & Schuyler, 4 West-street.         Richter, Chas. G., 86 Cedar-street.
Peters, H. N., 59 Reade-street.         Romaine, Wm. H., 21 Cedar-street.
Putzel & Stein, 5 Erie Building.        Robinson, Jno., 148 William-street.
Peterson, A. A., 406 Broadway.          Raynor, Samuel, 118 William-street.
Pierce, Benj. H., 388 Broadway.         Robins & Son, G. S., 54 William-street.
Partridge, Jr., Geo. S., 364 Broadway.    Remsen, W., 51 William-street.
Price, Wm. M., 424 Broadway.            Roosevelt & Sons, 94 Maiden Lane.
Peck & Co., 3 Park Place.               Richmond, C. C., 150 Fulton-street.
Peckell, J. W., 45 Gold-street.         Rogers & Raymond, 125 Fulton-street.
Perry, W. C., 13 Gold-street.           Russell, A. T., 137 Fulton-street.
Phillips & Lee, 177 William-street.     Ripley, D. C., 70 Water-street.
Paulus, G., 179 William-street.         Rosenbeiith & Cohn, 325 Broadway.
Purdy, Jno. F., 17 William-street.      Rumrill & Co., A., 264 Broadway.
Pairsen, Wm. B., 22 New-street.         Rorbach & Manning, 9 Warren-street.
Phelan, M., 128 Maiden Lane.            Robinson, B. H., 41 and 43 Warren-st.
Percy, Robt. P., 214 Greenwich-street.   Roe & Co., W. D., 59 Wall-street.
Pechin & Goery, 29 Spruce-street.       Ritter, Washington, 69 Wall-street.
Paten, Wm., & Noble, 42 Spruce-street.   Roome, A. P. M., 67 Wall-street.
Peck & Walton Manuf. Co., 85 Beekman-st. Rese, John, Harlem.
Preble, J. Q., 28 Beekman-street.       Rose, John, 160 Mott-street.
Powell, R. B., 100 Beekman-street.      Robbins, E. M., 70 Reade-street.
Petit, Joseph, 49 Wall-street.          Riggs, H. E., 189 Reade-street.
Patterson Bros, 27 Park Row.            Richardson, Francis, 470 Broadway.
Place, J. K. & E. B., 30 Broad-street.  Raymond & Co., 536 Broadway.
QUAAS, John, 203 William-street.        Rogers, Thomas, 1893 William-street.
Rio, W. J.
Quirk Bros., 98 Maiden Lane.            Robinson, J. F., 39 South William-street.
RANKEN, John, 10 Wall-street.           Rice, Thomas W., 41 Bowery.
Rosenblatt & Brother, G., 78 Chambers.  Rutter, Wm., 6 Ferry-street.
Randall & Co., John, 66 Broadway.       Rogers, N. A., 111 Nassau-street.
Rowland, C. N. S., 142 Broadway.        Raymond, Geo. H., 364 West-street.
Rood, E. I., 164 Broadway.              Rockwell & Co., J. S., 47 and 49 Ferry-st.
Rodman, R. W., 82 South-street.         Redfield, J. S., 34 Beekman-street.
Russell, Edwin C., 182 Chambers-street.  Reed, C. R., 359 Broadway.
Rathbone, R. C., 108 Broadway.
Ripley, B., 162 and 164 Broadway.       SAOCETT, E. W., 25 John-street.
Robb, Ralph, 180 Broadway.              Sibell, E. W., Brooklyn.
Reed & Co., John A., 203 Broadway.      Swift, Seamen & Co., 122 Chambers-st.
Rogers, John, 189 Broadway.             Starr, J., 44 Chambers-street.
Rooney & Leutts, 81 Water-street.       Scott & Co., John D., 37 Chambers-street.
Rich & Co., Josiah, 172 Front-street.   Schanck & Downing, 45 Chambers-street.
Renburgh & Bryan, 171 Front-street.     Smith, W. M., 49 Chambers.street.
Rosenburg, A., Maiden Lane.             Shultz, Mayer, 113 Liberty-street.
Roys, Harlow, 100 John-street.          Southwick, B., 107 and 109 Liberty-st.
Rose, Andrew, 129 Maiden Lane.          Scott, Wisner & Co., 112 Pearl-street.
Rollhaus, P., 250 Water-street.         Swain, P. Harbeck, 77 Water-street.
Richardson, F. E., 107 John-street.     Smith, Spelman & Co., 170 Front-street.
Rider, John, 165 Broadway.              Schlegel, H., 184 Front-street.
Reid & Townsend, 269 Washington-st.    Schiffer, S. & J., 194 Front-street.
Roe & Comstock, 197 Washington-street. Saugerties White Lead and Paint CornRudderow, Jones & Co., 14 & 16 Liberty.   pany, 159 Front-street.
Reid, George W., 32 Liberty-street.     Sturges, Bennett &  Co., 125 and 127
Ray Brothers, 8 Dey-street.               Front-street.
Randolph & Heady, 14 Dey-street.        Snowhill, W. 0., 121 and 123 Front-st.
Rose & Welil, 105 Liberty-street.       Simes, Chase & Co., 66 South-street.
Runyan, Nelson, 95 Liberty-street.      Smith & Son, W. H., 89 Maiden Lane.
Rothschild, Benham & Solomon, 91 Liber- Southmayd & Sons, Horace, 147 Maiden
ty-street.                              Lane.
Reynolds & Smith, 37 Murray-street.     Shepard, W. H., 208 Water-street.
Rogers, M. W., 292 Broadway.            Stamford Manuf. Co., 159 Maiden Lane.
Rutherford, Thos., 314 Br3oadway.       Spies, A. W. & Co., 187 Broadway.
Russell Erwin Manuf. Co., 87 Beckman-st. Salisbury, Henry, 171 Broadway.




13
Sewell, Robert, 15 Wall-street.           Shaw & Bro., 152 West-street.
Seymour, R. M., 177 Broadway.             Sturgis, Shaw & Co. 74 and 76 Murray-st.
Saxton, M. F., 25 Park Row.               Swain, P. M., 296 Broadway.
Schlesinger & Co., H., 50 Broadway.       Scudder & Co., H; G., 118 Warren-street.
Samuels, S. & G., 46 Broadway.            Shook & Morgan, 112 Warren-street.
Smyth, B. S., 38 Broadway.                Seymour & Co., John F., "8 Warren-st.
Shobelt, E. C.                            Stafford, Candee & Co., 74 Warren-street.
Stryker, Jr., Samuel D.                   Samson, C. B., 51 Cliff-street.
Scott, John D., 37 Chambers-street.       Shortridge, Howell & Co., 24 Cliff-street
Still & Co., J. W., 42 Barclay-street.    Schmitt, Constantine, 10 Doyer-street.
Strahlheim & Co., 44 Barclay-street.      Samuels, Samuel.
Snediker & Co., Wm., 50 Barclay-street.  Stringer, H. E., 117 Wall-street.
Sterratt & Co., 252 Broadway.             Schmidt, Wm., 66 Washington-street.
Shaw, W. B., 256 Broadway.                Schiffer, Jno., 10 Doyer-street.
Sumner, Henry H., 256 Broadway.           Steward, W. M., 157 South-street.
Spring, L. Louis, 279 Washington-street. Seabury, Chas. B., 112 South-street.
Simmons & Elsworth, 257 WVashington-st. Smith & Sons, A. E., 38 Peck Slip.
Schumsahl, Hinck & Co., 239 Washing- St. John, Burr, 308 Broadway.
ton-street.                             Schroeder, J., 227 Seventh-street.
Sloat, Jr., John D., 65 South-street.     Schlicher, J., 519 Fourth-street.
Storms, Win. J., 185 Washington-street.  Shaw, P. P., & Co., 31 and 33 Dey-street.
Shaw, Alex. L., 183 Washington-stleet.   Small & Co., E., 63 Stone-street.
Stebbins, Gray & Co., 224 Fulton-street.  Smith, Phineas, 179 Reade-street.
Shulman & Brothers, L., 105 Liberty-st.  St. John, Chas. W., 2 Erie Building.
Stern & Erdman, 110 Liberty-street.       Stanton, Henry, 17 William-street.
Strouse & Brother, S. H., 121 Liberty-st. Stanton, Jr., John, 25 William-street.
Stewart, W. J., 157 South-street.         Schlesinger & Son, 63 Pine-street.
Stiles, Samuel, 1 Wall-street.            Sloat, L. W., 63 Pine-street.
Shepard, W. IH., 74 Broadway.             Strong, Wm. K., 50 and 52 Pine-street.
Stone, Doras L., 45 Wall-street.          Sands & Co., 51 Pine-street.
Stansbury, Edward A., 108 Broadway.   Sniffen, J. L., 388 Broadway.
Smith & Hatnford, 249 Front-street.       Scribner & Co., Grand-street.
Sniffin, Jr., John, 80 South-street.      Starr, Alfred A., 22 Vandam-street.
Schreiner, O. II., 192 Broadway.          St. John, S. H., 526 Broadway.
Sonthack, John, 196 Broadway.             Smith, Stephen Wm., 534 Broadway.
Shepard, F. M, 201 Broadway.              Smith, J. T., 344 Broadway.
Stewart, Robert K., 157 South-street.    Sloane, Geo., 593 Broadway.
Sturges & Co.,- 31 South-street.          Sloane, Wm., 593 Broadway.
Schedel, William J., 76 Pearl-street.     Smith, Phineas, 418 Broadway.
Scott & Ingraham, 76 Front-street.        Smith & Co., Ira, 370 Broadway.
Storey & Stevens, 12 Old Slip.            Stone, Boorman & Bliss, 20 Park Place.
Sherman & Weeks, 11 Coenties Slip.        Spencer, W., 45 Park Place.
Stevens, Jr., J. M.. 195 Water-street.    Scott & Son, Win. H., 36 Murray-street.
Sturges, Jonathan, 125 Front-street.      Seguine, Wm., 860 Houston-street.
Spaulding, M. B., 240 Broadway.           Sheffield & Co., J. B., 63 Beekman-street.
Stephenson, George S., 49 South-street.   Studwell & Co., A., 181 William-street.
Straiton, Sanford & Co., 59 Beaver-street. Spalings & Brother, 186k William-street.
Secor, William H., 91 Beaver-street.      Schmidt, Frederick C., 3 South William-st.
Shuttruff & Leopold, 21 Beaver-street.   Sand, C. H., 11 South William-street.
Symington, James, 39 Beaver-street.       Stuart & Son, J. P., 15 South William-st.
Schott, James, Jr., 42 Beaver-street.     Simonin, A6n6dde H., 37 So. William-st.
Stevens, John A., 63 Bleecker-street.     Sullivan & Hyatt, 54 Bee'lman-street.
Stewart & Co., Daniel, 46 Beaver-street.  Speir, Francis, 54 Beekman-street.
Slipper & Goadby, 2 Broadway.             Simmons & Co., D., 7 Gold-street.
Solomon, A. iH., 2 Broadway.              Sears, H. P., 238 Greenwich-street.
Stebbins, Hoyt & Co., 152 Chambers-st.  Shiers, King & Co., 62 Pine-street.
Stone, Starr & Co., 113 Chambers-street. Sweetser, Saml., 80 Pine-street.
Schiels, L., 119 Chambers-street.         Steele, M. M., 43 Pine-street.
Straus, Branchi & Co., 155 Chambers-st.  Stratton & Co., 1 Pine-street.
Storm, S. F., 187 Broadway.               Sherwood, W. E., 40 Spruce-street.
Sheffield & Co., 60 Broad-street.         Smithson, Thos. B., 16 Spruce-street.
Schafer & Benecke, 111 Liberty-street.   Simmons, Thos. S., 10 Ferry-street.
Suydam, Lambert & Co., 107 West-street. Stokes, Henry, 29 Cliff-street.




14
Smithson, Thos. B., 16 Spruce-street.   Studwell, Jr., Joseph, 25 Park Row.
Smithson, Wm., 16 Spruce-street.        Stebbens & Co., W. A., 51 Exchange P].
Sage, W. B., 10 Spruce-street.          Stanton & Riley, 43 Exchange Place.
Snyder & Sons, 236 Sopth-street.        Such, Geo.
Stelzriede, 182 Christopher-street.     Semrad, A., 438 Broadway.
Sheldon, Elijah, 806 West-street.       Smith, J. A., 442 Broadway.
Schoonmaker, Cyrus, 364 West-street.    Smith & Lounsbery, 456 Broadway.
Smith, Jas. O., & Sons, 81 Fulton-street.  Smallwood, J. L., 10 Beaver-street.
Swasey & Co., E. R., 3 Ferry-street.    Stephenson, Chas. F., 65 Beaver-street.
Sherman, Geo. S., 149 Broadway.
Sherwood, Wm., 40 Spruce-street.         TAY, Charles H., 31 Cortland-street.
Stout, Thomas H., 37 Spruce-street.      Todd, Charles H., 118 Chambers-street.
Stout, William, 37 Spruce-street.        Thayer, C. P., 82 Broadway.
Smith, Isaac, 139 West 21st-street.      Todd, Charles P., 166 Broadway.
Smith, David, 16 Cedar-street.          Terrett, H. N., 251 Front-street.
Sandwich, A. S.                          Trevor, Jr., J. B.
Sanger, Joseph T., 22 Cedar-street.      Ten Eyck, C. A., 67 South-street.
Shattuck, W., 208 Broadway.              Tucker, Cooper & Co., 70 South-street.
Shattuck, Albert G., 22 Cedar-street.    Tyler & Co., Owen, 86 South-street.
Stevens, B., 56 Cedar-street.            Terry & Dellatorre, 106 South-street.
Schiefflin, Ph. & Lewis, 78 Cedar-street.  Thompson, Lyon & Co., 79 Pearl-street.
Smellie, James, 45 Cedar-street.        Thomae, George F., 82 South-street.
Smith & Bro., E. A., 180 William-street.  Truesdell & Co., 141 Pearl-street.
Sadlier & Co., D. & J., 164 William-st.    Thorley's Food for Cattle Depot, 21 BroadSanford, J. T., 93 West-street.            way.
Strasburger & Nuhn, 65 Maiden Lane.   Thompson, Elmor, 111 Chambers-street.
Schaefer, A., 65 Maiden Lane.           Travis, Win., 110 Broadway.
Schundeberg, Julian, 87 William-street.  Tims & Co., C. M., 164 Broadway.
Satterthwaite Bros., 61 William-street.   Thompson, Jonathan, 47 South-street.
Satterthwaite, T. B., 61 William-street.   Tiers, Peter, 43 Maiden Lane.
Schenck, Jacob B., 96 Maiden Lane.      Taylor, Charles, 212 Water-street.
Selleck, J. N., 98 Fulton-street.        Tracy, Irwin & Co., 234 and 235 BroadSmith, Wm., 110 Fulton-street.             way.
Scott & Co., M. A., 152 Fulton-street.   Todd, Gilbert M., 254 Broadway.
Shendan, A. F., 150 Fulton-street.       Tryon & Co., E. W., 257 Broadway.
Smith, J. F., 149 Hudson-street.         Terey & Co., 56 South-street.
Scofield, W. H., 98 Hester-street. i     Trask & Dearborn, 62 South-street.
Scranton, W. B., 82 Broad-street.       Taylor, Brothers, 76 Wall-street.
Sale & Co., Wm. A., 46 South-street.     Tilton, A. E., 25 and 27 Cedar-street.
Southmayd, Chas. F., 39 Ninth-street.    Tracy, E., William-street.
Starr, L. M., 4 Hanover-street.          Towt & Son, John W., 56 Beekman-st.
Sprague, C. J., 117 Pearl-street.        Thompson, A. R., 52 Beekman-street.
Stone, S. R., 46 Exchange Place.         Tucker & Burrell, 104 Maiden Lane.
Samuels, A. S., 310 Broadway.            Tooker, S., 238 Greenwich-street.
Sherman, T., 337 Broadway.               Thompson, Allanby, 45 John-street.
Schmidt, Henry, 337 Broadway.           Trapton, Win. H., 85 Broad-street.
Strang, Adriance & Co., 355 Broadway.  Tappan, John S., 63 William-street.
Solomon & Hart, 369 Broadway.            Tuttle, E. G., 246 and 247 South-street.
Stockbridge, Benj., 285 Broadway.        Turner, D. H., 118 King-street.
Stewart, O. L., 29 Wall-street.          Terry Brothers, 83 Gold-street.
Steele, Joseph L., 53 Warren-street.     Tatham, C. B., 82 Beekman-street.
Smith's Sons & Co., Isaac, 77 Warren-st. Tuttle & Bailey, 74 Beekman-street.
Sartorius & Loewe, 81 Warren-street.    Tyler, Christopher, 36 Beekman-street.
Slocum, Wm. S., 10 Merchants' Exchange. Thomasius, Rich'd W., 16 Spring-street.
Smith, R. Burnett, 44 Exchange Place.   Todd, George W., 64 Dey-street.
Sherwood, W. E., 40 Spruce-street.       Thompson & Nephew, 63 Pine-street.
Smith, G. R., 28 Spruce-street.          Thurston & Sons, N., 554 Broadway.
Smith & Bros., E. A., 180 William-street. Thorne, J. R., 6 Murray-street.
Spear, Chas. R., 181 Water-street.      Tuske & Brother, P. H., 146 William-st.
Sprague, Jas. J., 15 Beekman-street.    Thalmessinger & Co., M., 76 William-st.
Steinecke, H. F., 46 Beekman-street.    Tracy, George M., 87 William-street.
Savery's Sons, John.                    Thompson, Francis, 37 William-street.
Sargant & Co., 85 Beekman-street.       Tilton, R. L., 152 Fulton-street.




15
Taylor, Henry H. & Brother, 58 Beek- Van Ness & Emerson, 123 Warren-street.
man-street.                          Van Kleeck & Lewis, W. H., 120 WarrenTimson & Dater, 37 William-street.       street.
Taylor, H. E., 278 Pearl-street.
Taylor & Co., F. C., 7 Old Slip.       WARD, Albert, 18 Wall-street.
Turner, David L, 52 South-street.      Wakeman& Co., J.P., 47 Chambers-street.
Teller, West & Co., 32 South-street.   Wolfers, G. & Co., 75 Chambers-street.
Tripp, Ferris, 826 Broadway.           Wells, Fargo & Co., 82 Broadway.
Taylor, Joseph S., 303 Broadway.       Wright, Chas., New-Rochelle.
Trimble, Merritt, 86 Broad-street.     Willis, Geo. W., 25 Wall-street.
Trippe, Joseph E., 71 Warren-street.   Walcott, Jr., B. S., 45 Wall-street.
Thoman, Wm. A., 65 Wall-street.        Westcott, Robt. F., 168 Broadway.
Townsend, Samuel, 61 Wall-street.      Woodhull & Co., 207 Front-street.
Townsend, Dwight, 102 Wall-street.     Wood, Jno. A., 142 Fulton-street.
Tunkner, John, 98 Elm-street.          Wood, Geo. W., 2 Dutch-street.
Talmage & Co., Daniel, 269 South and Wells & Provost, 215 Front-street.
60 Water-street.                     Woodside, David, 163 South-street.
Town, William, 228 Wooster-street.     Walsh, Carver & Chase, 30 South-street.
Trowbridge, W. S., 340 Broadway.       Whitman Bro. & Co., 72 Beaver-street.
Taylor, Winm., 334 Broadway.           Woodruff & Robinson, 14 Coenties Slip.
Tappan, J. P., 26 Pine-street.         Williams, F. B., 85 Pearl-street.
Tappan & Starbuck, 77 Water-street.   Westervelt, Jno. Z., 203 Front-street.
Titts & Webb, 122 Warren-street.       Wild, J., 62 Cedar-street.
Tuthill, James M., 114 Warren-street.    Weldon, W., 37 Beaver-street.
Treadwell & Son, E., 104 Warren-street. Weekes, Geo., 37 Beaver-street.
Townsend & Crain, 45 Murray-street.    Williams, J. M., 35 William-street.
Warner, John H., 51 Exchange Place.
UNDERHILL, Jr., Wm., 183 Water-st. Watt, James S., 39 Beaver-street.
Underwood, H., 69 South-street.        Warner & Co., 159 Chambers-street.
Ullman, Blumenthal & Co., 24 Dey-st.    Warford, Wm. K., 18 Broadway.
Underhill, L. & A., 297 Broadway.      Watson, George, 196 Broadway.
Underhill, A. S., 69 Wall-street.      Walker, R. R., 76 Water-street.
Underhill, F., 181 South-street.       Williams, C. F., 161 Water-street.
Waring, Henry P., 164 Front-street.
VANDERLIP, John M., 18 Wall-street. Woods, Robt. L., 137 Front-street.
Valentine, Robert B., 10 Wall-street.  Whittemore, W. M., 91 Maiden Lane.
Van Nest & Co., Abm. R., 60 Warren-st.  Wallach, A., 33 Maiden Lane.
Van Benschoten, J., 84 Chambers-street.  Worthington, S., 141 Maiden Lane.
Vallette, J. C.                        Weekes, Aug. F., 264 Water-street.
Van Valkenburgh, R., 6 John-street.    Watson & Meares, 34 Burling Slip.
Valeno & Fassin, 40 Beaver-street.     Waldo, F. W., 135 Broadway.
Vauderpoel, A., 14 Broadway.           Waldo, Jr., Horace, 135 Broadway.
Voorhees, J. C., 112 Pearl-street.     Winant, D. D., Williamsburgh.
Valentine, Willis & Co., 93 John-street.   West, Caldwell & Co., 52 Broadway.
Van Zandt, N. L., 135 Broadway.        Watt, Dunning & Graham, 245 Broadway.
Valentine, T., 243 Washington-street.    Whitmore, J., 47 South-street.
Varney, James C., 53 South-street.     Walker, T. H.
Van Buskirk, Richard, 218 Greenwich-st. Wiley, Alexander, 70 South-street.
Vanderbilt, Wm. S., 408 Broadway.      White, Morris & Co., 25 Wall-street.
Vandervoort, R. J., 116 Fulton-street.    Walsh, H., 400 Greenwich-street.
Van Benschoten, S., 15 Old Slip,       Woolsey, Jno., 208 Front-street.
Van Benschoten, Chas. C., 15 Old Slip.   Woodhull, E. S., 207 Front-street.
Vining, H. S., 31 Old Slip.            Wollem, Chas. H., 47 Gold-street.
Van Harnen, Geo. W., 62 Pine-street.    Walker, E., 47 Gold-street.
Vanderhoef, S. S., 25 Ferry-street.    White & Co., Chas. T., 65 Beekman-st.
Valentine & Co., L. T., 45 Beekman-st.   White, P. A., 102 Gold-street.
Vernon Brothers, 23 Beekman-street.    Whitmore, Geo. W., 177 William-street.
Van Winkle, A. J., 9 Spruce-street.    Wright & Campbell, 190 William-street.
Van Nest & Hayden, 79 Beekman-street. Weston, Dortic & Co., 19 William-street.
Van Horn, C., 70 Beekman-street.       Ward, Edward F., 6 South William-st.
Van Wart & Co., Irving, 72 Beekman-st. West, George, 7 South William-street.
Van Saun, Isaac, 193 Washington-street. Wright & Mace, 58 Beekman-street.
Van Winkle, Albert, 205 West-street.    Walsh & Plume, 60 Beekman-street.




Ward, A., 54 Beekman-street.           Winston, F. S., 94 Broadway.
Warens, J. P., 46 Beekman-street.      Warner, Peck & Co., 376 Broadway.
Wilcox, S. L.                          Wing & Winans, 418 Broadway.
Walker, D., 126 Maiden Lane.           Wetherald & Young, 33 Park Place.
Wade, Jr., Ezekiel, 17 Peck Slip.      Wines, G. H., 1 Park Place.
Wiggins, J., 75 Barclay-street.        Wallach, Willy, 131 William-street.
Weeks, E., 210 Greenwich-street.       Whitney, E.
Wells, Sidney B., 27 Spruce-street.    Windle & Co., 56 Maiden Lane.
Withers, R., 135 Second Avenue.        Willard, Harvey & Co., 84 Maiden Lane.
Williams, Wm., 16 Spruce-street.       Woodward, Pinckney & Clarke, 118 FulWight & Son, J., 232 South-street.       ton-street.
Walton, Elisha L., 534 Water-street.   Williams, A. J., 210 Broadway.
Wetmore & Kirkland, 311 Greenwich-st.  Waters, E. G., 16 Wall-street.
Walker, F. R., 22 Spruce-street.       Watts, C. C., 130 Fulton-street.
Warren, H. M., 20 Spruce-street.       Ward, F. A., 29 South William.street.
Wells, Sidney A., 27 Spruce-street.    Williams, Edward, 11 Hanover-street.
Weed, T., 83 Beekman-street.           Willets, Amos, 276 Pearl-street.
Waefelaer, L., 74 Beekman-street.      Winthrop, Francis B., 4 Hanover-street.
Wemmell, Andrew A., 31 Park Row.       Wright & Co., Wm. P., 6 Hanover-street.
Wetherbee, Wm., 52 Exchange Place.    Westervelt & Son, James, 32 Old Slip.
Winslow, Joseph, 64 Exchange Place.    Wickersham, Jno. B., 312 Broadway.
Wells, Charles, 434 Broadway.          Woodruff, A. G., 326 Broadway.
Wood, 0. J., 444 Broadway.             Woodruff, David, 326 Broadway.
Wright & Co., Wm. W., 252 Broadway. Williams, Geo. H., 353 Broadway.
Wilbur, Charles, 189 Washingl;on-street. Williams, Jno. H., 353 Broadway.
Wakeman, Dimon & Co., 73 South-st.   Wilson & Co., C., 297 Broadway.
Willis & Elsworth, 66 Liberty-street.    Walton, J. M., 67 Warren-street.
Warren, James K., 96 Liberty-street.    Weed, Wm. C., 85 Warren-street.
Weeks, F. S., 100 Liberty-street.      Wilson, J. Y., 270 Washington-street.
Way, D. H., 22 Cliff-street.           Williamson, D. O., 28 Exchange Place.
Wilkinson, F., 15 Murray-street.       Wood, Wm. H., 65 Wall-street.
Ward, O. D., 296 Broadway.             White, Ezra, 61 Wall-street.
Ward, W. H., 296 Broadway.             Whitmore, P. D., 117 Wall-street.
Whitehead, W. H., 314 Broadway.        Wunderlich, Thomas, 117 Wall-street.
Ward, Elijah, 314 Broadway.            Wade, Edmund J., 101 Wall-street.
Willard, G., 94 Warren-street.         Wall, Wm. J. B., 42 Clinton Place.
Weed, Jas. M., 86 Warren-street.       Wilde, Jno. S., 36 Remson-street, Bk.
White, Chas., 65 East 12th-street.     Wilde, Jno. T.
Wilde, Wm. L, 388 Broadway.
Wygant & Hoyt, 68 Dey-street.          YOUNG, Davidson & Co., 262 and 264
wells & Co., Nelson, 81 Dey-street.      Front-street.
Wagner, Chas. K., 71 Cortlandt-street.   Young, Arch. & Co., 314 Broadway.
Willis, Winm. M., 36 Cortlandt-street.  Young, James, 314 Broadway.
Wiley, F., 78 Reade-street.
Wilkie & Co., 169 Reade-street.        ZELLMACIIER, Wise &  Co.,'103
Weeks, B. M., 194 Duane-street.          Chambers-street.
Wilbur & Price, 50 Pine-street.        Ziegenbien, F. W., 400 Greenwich-street.
Wilde, Jr., & Co., James, 388 Broadway. Zinsser & Marc, 197 William-street.
Wilde, Joseph, 97 Livingston-street, Bk.  Zabriskie & Lumley, 225 Greenwich-st.
Willcox, Wm. H., 312 Broadway.         Zibley & Co., J. F., 13 Spruce-street.




Pro Rata Question.
OPENING REMARiKS
OF
JOHN THOMPSON, ESQ.,
ON BEHALF OF THE RAILROADS,
A PRO RATA LAW;
AD THE TESTIMONY OF
J. W. BROOKS, Esq.,
BEFORE THE
SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE ASSENIBLY;
ALS, THE TESTIMONY OF
SOLOMON  DRULLARD, E SQ.,
General Freight Agent New York Central Railroad
ALBANY:
WEED, PARSONS & COMPANY, PRINTERS.
1860.








SPEECH OF MR' i, THOMPSONl                                         V 
Before the Select Committee of the Assembly.
Mr. THOMPSON said he had endeavored to   That within these general principles Railroads
demonstrate, by way of protest to these petitions, were on the same footing as individuals, in the
as follows:                                 transaction of their business, being governed by
It is plausibly urged that by the low rates the laws of trade, the law of demand and supply
charged from Chicago or other Western points and by the usages of business, as it develops,
tq New York, the millers of Rochester or Oswego and that these laws of trade like the principles
ate injured, and that as they are compelled to of the common law are progressive and changbuy grain in Michigan or Wisconsin, they can- able; changing with the growth and developnot freight it to Rochester, flour it, barrel it ment of the country which they intersect, with
and get it to New York as cheaply as the Millers the character of the business and merchandise
at Chicago or Detroit.  Might admit all that which employs them, and that no rule can or
to be true, and would it therefore follow that should be imposed by the Legislature to cripple
the Rochester miller is thefinal cause of all rail- their usefulness or destroy their income.
roads, that the natural course of trade, the pro-   I endeavored further to show that political and
ducts of agricultural, the prosperity and enter- moral right ought to back and fortify naked
prise of all the Empires of the New World are to powers before it is exercised to interfere with the
bend to the thrift of Rochester millers, and go natural commerce of corporations, and that in
through the hoppers of Rochester mills? It is a this respect all they should and did stand upon
strange assumption that any business become un- the footing of individuals, being entitled to the
profitable in our own state by the nature of same legal protection and the same legislative
things, should be protected and kept up by un- regard. That commerce made her own laws, and
just discrimination against all that may come that any interference with these, within the
into competition, might be applied equally to our limits and between the states of this confederacy,
mills here, our wool growing. It ought never to was contrary to the spirit of the constitution of
be thought of in reference to the great staple of the United States, in direct violation and usurpalife, bread, and especially when for seven months tion of the powers of Congress over commerce.
the Rochester mills has canal at its door and for Operating as effectually and disastrously as the
balance the markets of Portland and Boston, but erection of a custom house at Dunkirk or Buffalo
thus demonstrated by way of protection to these or Oswego or Albany, to levy a duty on all westpetitions.                                   ern tonnage before it should be permitted to pass
1. The fallacy of the assumption, that railroad their own borders.
companies have any privileges or exemptions   That such a policy would inevitably destroy
from the burdens borne by other trading or mer- what it professed to protect. That such hasty
cantile interests of the state, but on the contrary ill-advised legislation to protect class interest,
they are subjected to all the burdens of taxation, always recoiled upon the very interest it was deon their real estate, rolling stock and capital, signed to foster, and instead of giving each a fair
working our highways, their own rivals, building chance in the race of honorable competition
our school houses and thus aiding our educational ruined both.
interests, and bring the wealth of the states to be   2. That the allegation, that our railroads uninvested in their stocks and bonds to one hundred  justly discriminated between citizens of our own
and fifty millions of dollars, penetrating remote state and citizens of western states was unfounddistricts, and enhancing fourfold the price of lands ed and unjust, the same rates being demanded of
where they go, building up villages, equalizing every one shipping from the same point, and that
the value of property, affording large districts a any discrimination in prices of transportation
valuable market for wood, and contributing by have relation simply to distances and not to perthese means as well as by the employment of sons, and that in this respect the way business
labor to the wealth and prosperity of the whole and the through business of our railroads were
state. Grand Trunk exempt from a long entire kept on separate footings, and carried on by the
line. I endeavored to establish that it was the companies at different rates of expense.
purpose of the state in former times to foster and   That no person could complain living on the
encourage these public enterprises, by putting line of the road, while the business was done
them on a footing of equality with other forms promptly, cheaply and more to his advantage
of associated wealth and private enterprise, giv- than in any other mode. That the Company
ing only such general regulation to their modes might be able to carry from more distant points,
of operation, as experience had demonstrated for the same or a less price per ton per mile.
would work no injury to them, and at the same   That the idea of the same price per ton per
time give assurance that no abuses should be mile, is as absurd as if applied to a New York
tolerated where the remedy laid within the pur- city omnibus or railroad car, permitting 6d for
view of legislative correction.             the longest ride, and demanding a pro rata di



4
minution for any shorter distance, or lighter tion, merchants are enabled to do business with
weight.                                        less capital, supporting their families, and emThat the way business of the road, resting on ploying labor, and increasing the growth and
its own footing, and conducted on a separate resources of the metropolis.
basis, is to be considered and regulated, if at all,   I had further endeavored to demonstrate the
solely in reference to itself.                  fallacy of the allegation, that the canals were
That it is neither increased nor diminished by thus deprived of their " legitimate traffic," as
the passage of western merchandise over the false in principle and unfounded in fact.
road.  That its expense is regulated by what it   That the State is no more entitled to the carrycosts, with a small ordinary profit, depending  ing trade, as her legitimate and peculiar field of
upon grade of the road, time employed in de- profit, than an individual or a corporation; and
livering and receiving freight, cost and consump- that she has the same right to embark in the
tion of fuel, freight houses to be built at the manufacture of iron, or quarrying of stone, or
stations, labor to be employed along the line, raising of agricultural products, and they lay a
most of these being items of cost, not necessarily  tax on all these branches of business for her own
entering into the cost of through transportation, protection, as to compel the railroad to charge
in respect of which, most of it passes on the rates so high, as to throwthe business they now
road, simply without reloading or handling-  do into the hands of forwarders on the canals.
being loaded at Cleveland, or Toledo, or Chi-   If the canals cannot be supported without the
cago, or other western points, from  whence it destruction of all private business that may incomes passing direct to New York, by the Erie, terfere with them, they had better be abandoned,
or to Albany on Central.                        and the sooner the better.
That way transportation could not, in the    That it is unfounded in fact, inasmuch as the
nature of things, be carried on as cheaply as that bulk of freight now  carried on the railroads
between distant points-and that to this rule would not pass the canals, if the railroads were
there is no exemption.                          unable to carry it. That all that part of it
That way freight on the ocean, in the coasting which consists, of live stock, and dead hogs,
trade, on all our rivers, canals, and railroads, which is made up of light, valuable or perishpays and must pay a higher rate for short dis- able materials, and which must get rapidly to
tances than for longer ones.                    market, would seek other rail lines in getting to
That a locomotive carried usually 30 cars seaboard; and that this trade once diverted,
filled with through freight, with few stoppages, would never return to its former channels.
and no loss of time. While the same power on    That if the through freight was abandoned, as
a way train, carried not to exceed 20 cars, and it:would be through the imposition of higher
these only partly filled, with greater loss of prices, the way freights would require to be
time, and consumption of fuel, and expenses of largely advanced all along the line, to enable
handling.                                       the roads to continue their business; and upon
And the only legitimate question before the the Erie Road this would be a calamity without
committee is: Are the rates of freight too ex- any relief, as there is no other means of cornpensive, from  any station, on the line of the munication, which would therefore depreciate
road to New York?                              the price of property all along the line, from the
That any other view of the case, is a prostitu- increased expenditure required to send  it to
tion of the road and its uses, to operate as a market, and along the Central. While it might
limitation and check to the free enterprise of the aid canal transportation a little in the summer,
whole country and any part of it.              it could not affect freights in the winter season,
That there is no power in the Legislature, to when the canal is frozen. And that unless the
directly prohibit the roads from carrying cars, State desires to attempt a confiscation of the railcoming on from  other States; and that it is roads, and running them on its own account (a
equally unjust to compel them to charge such  worse boon to her than the canals), she cannot
prices, as to effectually exclude them from the justly interfere in the matter.
roads-thus, doing that indirectly, which they    That a new and cheaper mode of transportahave no power to do directly.                  tion is never, in. a wise government, burdened
That it should be the wish and effort of en- with the expenses of the old and inferior.
lightened statesmanship, to force through our   There could be no progress in civilization, no
State, and into its metropolis, these streams of advances in political or social or commercial life,
western merchandise, and to aid our channels of under such a barbarian rule. We, on the concommunication, in diverting it from rival lines trary, reward the inventor with a right to the
by a fostering Legislature, instead of so crippling  exclusive use of his invention; but of what avail
our own roads, as to drive this trade away from  is his patent, if he must buy out all the old
us; for it is as absurd to suppose, that the hu- churns, scows and machinery his invenion is
man heart can carry on its pulsations, sending  designed to supersede?  And that on this prinblood through all its channels to the extremities, ciple, the river craft on the Hudson, and all the
as that New York, the mart of the State, can dock owners along its borders, might apply to
remain wealthy, or retain her influence and  the Legislature, to compel the Hudson River
prestige, when these channels of trade are stran- Railroad to pay the price of all property which
gulated or dried up.                           this new mode of transportation has rendered
That cheap transportation on through lines, unprofitable.
is benefit to producer and consumer, and mer-   3. I also attempted to expose the fallacy of the
chant alike.                                   allegation that the railroad was carrying through
It costs a less price when delivered in the freight for less than they can afford.
market, which is divided between production    1. Because the petitioners have and can have
and consumption; each receiving a portion of no knowledge on the subject.
that by the regularity of railroad transporta-   2. Because it is safe usually to leave comr



5
panies to be governed by their own instincts and offered, to bring it through our state it is only by
experience, they being better judges of this mat- continued struggle that our railroads retain it at
ter than any one else can be, and that the benev- all, and that the imposition' of any new burden
olence of these petitioners towards the stock- or charge upon it would send it off on rival lines,
holders and bondholders of these roads is all equally anxious to divert it; and that once
altogether quixotic and misplaced.           gone from us, as the course of trade is to carve
That the allegation that this loss is made up its own channels deeper and deeper, we could
by excessive way freights is not true, and if true offer under legislative resolutions no means for
would, in summer aid, and not injure the canal; its recovery.
and that it is equally unjust to the company to   That there was no less than eight different
charge it as the reason of advanced rates on lines of communication from the southwest, to the
winter transportation, as                    sea coast south of us, and two rival lines north of
1. The canals do not thus conflict with them; us, all in eager competition for this trade, which
and,                                         will bear no burdens it can avoid, but will seek
2. The actual cost of winter transportation is such market as it can get at the cheapest.
increased in about the same ratio. And that no   That the products of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois,
person along the line was compelled to delay his have natural and feasible outlets, through the
shipments for winter transportation, and if so, he Pennsylvania Central and the Baltimore and
ought, in justice, to pay the necessarily increased Ohio Rail Road, which are fostered and encost.                                        couraged by the States; and run lines of vessels
4. I endeavored, moreover, to expose the folly from those cities to New York, carrying up coal,
that " parties all along the line had yielded equal and wood and lumber, and take freight back as
"' rights for the erection of railroads, and were ballast, or at nominal prices in return.
" entitled as a consideration to be placed on the   That produce, and pork and beef on the Ohio
"footing of through freight."  That as these and at Chicago, goes either to the river for prelines had conferred benefits and benefits only on paration, slaughter and packing, and so round
the country at large, no one had yielded any- by water to the seaboard, or down the lakes, and
thing, his land was increased in value; his pro- through the Grand Trunk Rail Road to Boston
ducts found a market, cities and villages and and Portland.
towns were increased and built up, and other   That Chicago has, in fact, opened a direct trade
certain places and taverns on the canal might with Liverpool, sending one vessel, the Dean
suffer, it was only the same thing that happened Richmond, in 1856; in 1857, 13 vessels, and in
to the old turnpike and some of its villages by 1858, 40 vessels.
the construction of the canal.  They yielded   That Boston is on the wing, through all the
nothing, the course of trade retreated and left northwest, soliciting and paying a premium  on
them high and dry.                           this freight. We sit here deliberating whether
I endeavored, moreover, to demonstrate the ab- we shall not notify them we shall tax. I am
surdity of pro rata freight charges, having refer- half suspicious, the finger of Boston is on these
ence to long lines and freights out of the State. petitions on your table. If they had paid ten
That with efficient agencies, now employed in thousand dollars for them, they are worth it all
all western cities and the inducements at present if they accomplish what they desire.
TESTIMONY OF J. W. BROOKS.
Mr. J. W. BROOKS, President of the Michigan    Q. You were President of that line during the
Central Railroad, then gave testimony as fol- time you spoke of?
lows —Mr. Thompson conducting the examina-   A. I constructed the Michigan Central road,
commencing in 1846, and was not President of
tion:                                        the Company until some time after 1850-I do
Q. Where do you reside?                   not recollect the year-perhaps it was 1853 or
A. At Newton, near Boston.'54. Previous to that I was local manager at the
Q. What is your business?                 west, and constructor.
A. I am President of the Michigan Central   Q. Are you acquainted with railroad transRailroad Company.                            portation and the movement of freight and pasQ. How long have you been in the railroad  sengers on those western roads, through to the
busness?                                    east, and the general course of business?
A. Something over 20 years-between 20 and    A. I am, as far as a person who had control
25 years.                                    of one of the long lines would be likely to have,
Q. Will you state where your stations have sir.
been during that period-the points at which    Q. As a manager of a road I ask you this quesyou have been located?                      tion: what is the difference in the cost of railroad
A. For the last 16 or 17 years I have been transportation of through freight as compared
connected with the Michioan CeJtral Railroad, with way freight?
and the roads running from it to Missouri; but   A. Almost every road would present a somemy attention during that time has been confined what new case. But there is no doubt that upon
to that line.                                all roads it costs a good deal more to trans



6
port thelocal than the through freight. On some deavored to describe, which generally rendered
roads the difference in the two classes would be it desirable for long lines to seek distant busivery much greater than on the others. There ness.
are so many causes that affect it more in some   Q. You have stated the occasion of this differcases and less than in others, one can hardly fix ence; will you now state the cost of winter
a stated per cent difference.  The cars in the one transportation on these Northern routes, the
case do not run as full as in the other, nor do principal lines, the New York Central and the
the trains take as many cars. The maximum  New York and Erie, as compared with the cost
number of cars of a full train is about thirty. in summer.
The local train takes one or two on and picks   A. We all know and feel that there is a good
others up on the route, as it picks up and drops deal of difference between the winter and sumcars on the route, the average will differ from  mer expense of working lines of railroads. There
station to station. I have generally supposed is generally very much more difference than apthat more money could be made at two cents pears in the monthly figures that make up the
per mile per ton on long business, than at three cost; the rigidity of the railway, caused by freezcents on local. That must make a difference of ing, of course would wear out rails much more
50 per cent. Some roads will make that figure rapidly. They may be fresh in fall, and partismaller.  There are cases where it might be ally fresh in the spring, but they are not taken
larger. There is entering into that question a out until the wear of years completes their desphase that is not always thought of. New busi- truction, when they have to be taken out in the
ness is generally long business. New business regular course of repairs; winters vary very
can be done somewhat cheaper than old business. much. Then in regard to the rails, I will cite an
If you will allow me to go into an explanation I example in the Lowell Railroad. When the rails
will try to make myself understood in that re- were first laid they were laid on stone, which
gard. The fixed business, for which the road is made the track as rigid as if frozen; it was found
built, has fairly charged upon it the whole ex- that the rails and machinery wore out the iron,
pense of the operation of the road. The fixed which was bolted on the stone sleepers; the rails
business, which may be regarded as legitimately wore out quickly by reason of the rigidity with
belonging to the line, is that which the public which the track was laid; theytook them up and
depends upon it to perform, and for which it inserted a wooden block between the rail and the
was built. There are certain classes of expenses tie, to give them an amount of elasticity which
connected with the management, not incidental would relieve the rail from the rigidity. I supto the increase of business; as, if you please, pose that state of things is incident to rails frozen
the decay of the perishable materials connected up; but winters are different. Within a few
with its structure. The roadway, the ties, the years, I do not recollect the time, we had two
care of its bridges, its culverts, its drainage, successive winters during which I do not believe
ditches, the sliding of its banks, the wooden ma- many roads in this climate made any money at
terial connected with its rolling stock. The all. We, almost all of us, did not find ourselves
decay of that goes on as much in a smaller as in  clear of the damage until the succeeding July or
a larger business. There is a certain class of August; thatis, our machinery went into the winagencies connected with it, not influenced by the ter business in better repair than they were subsegreater or less quantity of business. All the quently, until the following July or August; so
principal agents at the extremities of the line, that the expense of it remained until the fall
these are not influenced in any appreciable de- business following. We were pretty busy on the
gree by new business brought upon the line. I Michigan Central in getting ready and repairing
have generally supposed that perhaps nearly machinery, injured by the hard winter service.
one-third of the expenses of railway manage- Then there are other winters which are far differment, was not increased by the increase of busi- ent. We never have a winter but what the track
ness. Therefore, I would say, that if the total freezes, but there are winters when we are not
cost of working the road or business was a cent troubled so much with snow, so that the operaa ton per mile (I state that not as representing tion of the road during the winter season varies
the cost, but as a mere example), then new busi- in the difficulties that are attendant upon it with
ness could be done for two-thirds of a cent, and the severity of the season. I speak now of the
the other trade would not be affected by increas- latitude in which we are. North of New York it
ed tonnage. It will follow from that that if new  is very different. South of New York, where
business is taken at the exact cost of the cur- the climate is considerably changed, it might
rent business of the line, there is a profit inci- be still worse than it is here; though I do
dent to that business, which if you take the whole not know when we get down to the freezing
business at that cost, your line is worthless. In point, how much additional influence it has upon
my own judgment I have always regarded that it. Of course, in the south, this does not amount
theory and have sought new business as the exi- to anything as their winters are not severe.
gency of trade seemed to make it expedient. If   Q. As the result of this action upon the rails,
we had current trade one way and empty cars the the wear and tear of machinery and the repair of
other, we would take freight at a very low rate, track, what, in your judgment as a railroad exto fill up the empty cars. There are seasons of pert, is the average difference in the cost of winthe year when our rolling stock is unemployed, ter and summer transportation?
that we would enter it upon any business at these   A. I think I could only give it as a matter of
low rates to make something out of it. The new  judgment; I have never given the subject an acbusiness thus sought, not being legitimate busi- curate investigation.
ness belonging to the road, and for which tho    Q. That is all we expect.
road was not constructed, has been almost al-   A. We, of course, are compelled to run smaller
ways taken at rates which are near the cost of trains in the winter; we are liable to the diffimovement. It is that element which I have en- culties of frosty stock, and we do less service




with the same stock. I think few people would  had agreed upon, in the hands of our agents,
place it as low as one-third; I think I should  leaving them  no discretionary power to go beplace it at that figure; I think I could make  low them; we found, immediately after this armore money at two cents in the summer than  rangement was made and the price settled upon,
three in the winter. You can calculate, very  the traffic began to lessen and divert; it grew
nearly, what can be done in the summer; the  out of small changes, sometimes cutting fifty
winter has surrounding the business so many  cents under price for a passenger to New York,
risks that trains have to be lighter, everything  or if that did'nt answer the purpose, a dollar.
has to be handled more delicately, and neces- We had a great deal of difficulty growing out of
sarily greater destruction and damage ensues. this changing of rates, and I finally gave orders
The difficulty of estimating the damage is, that to ask the price which was asked by the other
a great deal of the repairing is done during the  route. From  that time rates were steady; no
ensuing season; but we know that the rails are  advantage could be taken by reducing rates, behammered in the ends, and early in the spring  cause the other was changed at the same hour.
we have to take out a multitude of rails; it is That settled the question definitely.
difficult to measure the damage in dollars and    Mr. CONKLING-This practice to which you
cents.                                         refer, not only enables you to retain your share
Q. I ask you, as a distinct question, what an  of the business, but it operates as a regulator of
advantage has the Southern over the Northern  the rates?
routes in the winter?                            A. It keeps the rates steady; there was not
A. I do not see if you get south but what the  gain to be made; for if one man lowers, he knows
Southern routes have an  advantage exactly  his neighbor is ordered to lower at the same
equal to theinconvenience and extra expenditure  hour; so that it is a question only whether he
of the Northern lines, caused by their cold  will carry a passenger at a dollar loss, for of
climate.  Whatever measures the one, will course he gets no more passengers than if he had
measure the other; if we had not winters here  adhered to the rates.
we would be free from  all this inconvenience    Q. You say, in regard to freight, that the road
and expense; they have a sort of advantage  having the fixed tariff would lose the freight;
beyond that, which generally would not be esti- why would it lose it?
mated very high, but I think it is worth some-    A. What I said in regard to passengers, will
thing; I should regard it, in long lines of com- apply to freight. I look upon these two as being
petition, as an advantage; the current of their affected by the same causes; but one in a greater
business is not disturbed by the exigencies of degree than the other. I instanced the passenger
our line of service; therefore it is easy for them  question because it is one in which I had had
to take and retain business at certain prices the  experience. Passengers will not leave at once
long traffic, that would be regarded as valuable  the line on which they have been accustomed to
in the carrying business against competing  travel, because of a slight reduction of price on
lines.                                         a competing line; but if the reduction is adhered
Q. In case of a stated published tariff by any  to for a long time, they will gradually leave it
of the roads, not variable for a month, and pub- for the line which has the less price. But with
lished throughout the east and west, what would  regard to freight, it makes very little difference
be its effect on the through business?        with the owner of property, whether it is carried
A. I think that question almost every one can  in a red car or a brown one, so that it gets to
judge of; it is a sort of mixed commercial and  market in a stated reasonable time. There is not
carrier question; it may be said to be not very  much difference in the time in which freight
different from the case of certain merchants on  reaches the market on any of these lines. There
one side of a street having their prices fixed and  is less than a day's travel in the distance of carunchangeable, while on the other side they were riage, between the longest and the shortest one.
not so restricted; I should think that the people  The time on freight has little or nothing to do
on the other side would do the business for that with it.  While I know  that the passengers
month certainly; in the long traffic we all meet would leave a line gradually, I have no doubt
in the centres of trade-the western sources of that freight would leave it en masse at once. I
business (I speak of centres as being those  know when we had an arrangement which we
points where, from the number of railroads cen- could not change, and the other parties could
tering from the interior, make them  common  change, we could not get any of the other parties'
points), what we call common points, points traffic, and they did get some of ours. You canfrom which we reach the seaboard markets. If not get freight from a given point unless you
any one of these several lines puts out its rates transport it as cheap as any one else. There is
as fixed and unchangeable for a month, the  another reason which affects passengers to a cerothers would certainly do the business, unless tain extent, so long as the passenger has business
the rate was fixed at a point where no profit to do along the line, a half dollar nor even a
could be made; then I think the line having the  dollar would change the passenger from one line
fixed rate would do the business. I have had a to another; but freight has no such stopping
little experience on that question in relation to  necessity.
the passenger business; I cannot recollect the    Q. In your judgment, as a railroad man, can
year, but it was very soon after we opened our the way and through business be done at the
line to Chicago.  The Michigan Southern line  same rates practicably?
were entering into competition for the long    A. I have no doubt about its being impractic
traffic for passengers; we all had our offices in  able. There may be a good many definitions of
the sources for business along the west and  the word impracticable, but as it is generally
northwestof Chicago; we thought we did wisely  understood the business could not be conducted
in playing a very conservative part in regard to  with any profitable result; the two are widely
cutting rates; we placed fixed rates, which we  different in their character. One of them, to be




8
done at all, situated as these lines are, has got no doubt it will. They have built, without any
to be done under the same elasticity on one line question, the best line of railroad on this contiwhich the other has, it would very much derange nent. A line that can work the cheapest, setting
business to have that changed every day or capital aside, which costs them  only three or
every hour. I do not think there is any profit four per cent a year, they have got relieved from
of the long business that amounts to much if their bonded indebtedness, having received large
you have got to connect it in any way with the presents from the home government and releases
local business. You have got to use the long from liens and taxes, and it is prepared to do
business to metke it profitable, to fill up the gaps this long business at a rate leaving but a modeas it were. You must rely upon the local busi- rate margin to the shortest line between the
ness to a great extent as a steady business, run- western markets and the seaboard. They will
ning all the year pretty nearly equal as the busi- regulate the price, without any question, quite as
ness of the country runs.                    efficiently as any other line trading between the
Q. What effect would result, in your judg- seaboard and the west.
ment, to the way freights if the through freights   Q. If the through business was taken from
were abandoned?                              the New York roads, would it, in your judgA. On different roads it would bring about a ment, go to the canals or what other channels
different result.                            would it take?
Q. Take the two lines of New York, the Hud-   A. I think that would depend to a very conson River and the Harlem?                   siderable extent upon how long the experiment
A. Where there was no competition which of turning it away from the New York lines was
would so regulate the local prices as to put it carried on. I think that the first, second, third
out of the power of the railroads to make any classes of freight would all take the other lines.
more money out of them than they were at any The competition between the roads is for these
particular period making, they would of course three classes. The fourth class is divided bebo interested to add to the local rates as much tween the roads and the canals. The property
as they lost on the through.                 represented by the first three classes would
Mr. COBB-Will you explain that again?     scarcely any of it go to New York by the Grand
A. I say that where there are no local rates Trunk road; I think it would go to Boston. all
which could not be controlled beyond the will of it that went by the Grand Trunk road, and
of the company by some competing interest, then that the three classes going to New York would
the local rates, if members of the directory had go by the southern roads, they being much the
any regard for the stockholders, as trustees of shortest. I should think that the wholesale
their property, would have to raise the local business, the importing business for the western
rates to compensate for the loss of doing no cities, would come from Baltimore and Philadelthrough business. I cannot conceive that through phia, because it would cost as little to put it
business can be done without the same elasticity there as in New York, and thence convey it to
attaches to the New York roads that would at- the west. It would cost less irom London and
tach to the roads in opposition to them, and that, Liverpool to Chicago and St. Louis, than it would
if taken away, I do not see how long business cost to go through New York. The fourth class
can possibly be retained. If the long business would be divided; a part of it would go on the
is not retained either the company must lose a canal and a part on these other lines; as whereconsiderable portion of its revenues or it must ever the second and third class goes to a certain
derive them from some other source. I have no extent, to a very large extent the fourth class
doubt, on the Michigan Central road, if we lost goes. A good deal of the fourth class, that now
our through business, we should raise our local goes upon the canal, would take these extreme
business at once. We could not afford to do local southern lines. The importations would work
business so cheaply if the sources of revenue in- their way to those cities.  A portion of the
cident to the through business were cut off. fourth class, that now goes by canal, as well as
Therefore it follows, that the profits made on a portion of the fourth class that goes on the
long business does strengthen the company to a rail, would go on these extreme southern routes,
certain extent; enabling it to do its local busi- and the other portion of the fourth class that
ness at better rates.                        goes now by rail on the N. Y. roads, would take
Q. Can a competing route with a longer line fix the canal.
low prices for you, and yet not be able to carry   Mr. CONKLING — How  would it affect the
as cheap?                                   transportation of passengers?
A. I have said before that all of the lines   A. The passenger trade follows the freight.
freighting between common points must carry at If the trade increased to the southern cities the
the same prices. There is no question about that, passengers would follow  more promptly the
Let any company, or any line of companies, first, second, and third class freight than they
charge a higher rate from  Chicago to New  would the fourth; because it requires more care
York their rival lines will take the busi- to trade in each of these classes, more personal
ness.  The question as to how  much profit attention; but there is no doubt that the passenthe rival lines will make on that is a ques- ger trade would wear away with the freight,
tion of their own. I will instance an extreme except in the case of passengers traveling for
case. The Grand Trunk Railroad is taking cot- pleasure-passengers making short runs in the
ton from  Memphis, far south of the southern  sulmmer time to watering places, &c.
lines in competition for western business to the   Mr. CONKLING-What would be the effect
English factories. They say they make money of that policy on the city of New York?
on it, whether they do or not, the policy of the   A. I do not see why it would not have the
British government to work a large portion of same effect upon the city of New York that it
the traffic of the Western States through the Pro- would have upon the roads-it would work the
vinces will probably be persevered in. I have trade into the southern cities. We had some




9
experience in that matter during the famousA. element of the difficulty that has been introNicholas compact, which has some fame as well duced within the last three years, making, with
as notoriety. The little experience we had at the other three, four elements of competition. I
that time, showed the effect upon my own road suppose that will grow up to be one, for I have
~as well as the roads here. It was very marked  understood they were pretty successful. The
in the change which it made in the coffee trade, trips that were made I believe amounted to
which was a large trade in the west, and the something like thirty or forty vessels.
coffee trade was looked at carefully to see what   Mr. THACHER-In 1859 
effect it was having. We found that a consider-   A. Yes, Sir. I do not know  the number; I
able portion of the coffee, which had formerly  followed them  up until they reached twenty,
been shipped to New York, and thence to the when I lost track of them; I presume somebody
west, went to Baltimore. It went theneover the here can give the number exactly.
Baltimore and Ohio road, to the Ohio river,   Q. What induced the change in the policy of
down the river to Cario, up the Mississippi to the New York roads, and the conflicts they had
Galena, and then turned eastward into the inte- to retain that western business?  How  did it
rior of Illinois; it went entirely around us. A  arise? State the facts.
few cents on a hundred pounds, amounting to   A. The first conflict-guerrilla warfare-in the
about $3 a ton, of course turned that business. shape of competition. Such  competition alThat was one of the articles of the fourth class, ways arises when new elements are brought in,
and I do not see why all the articles of that until some settlement is made; and the St.
class would not follow in the same way, if treated  Nicholas compact was-the first permanent settlein the same manner. I am  sure the western ment of the difficulties; or rather, it was underimporting man would feel it so at once, and stood to be permanent. In that, the Northern
others would follow.                           lines were out-generaled entirely; they conceded
Q. Did the New York roads have a fixed tariff to the Southern lines because of their increased
prior to 1858?                                nearness of those States to the interior-a difA. They generally did, sir.                 ferent rate to the Southern cities-so strong a
Q. You state that two or three dollars a ton difference as to have a serious effect on the trade
turned that freight from you  of those cities. We know that trade began to
A. I do not recollect the rate. I recollect the move to and front those cities in a rapidly ineffect of it was so strong against these New York creasing ratio-that merchants trading with New
and Northern lines, our own among the rest, that York began to get their stocks through other
the compact was destroyed. It was found ne- cities, and that the change was increasing so
cessary; we could not live under that state of rapidly that it had the eflfect to break up the St.
things. It astonished us by the promptness Nicholas compact. It was decided that the New
with which the goods began to change their York and other Northern lines should fix their
routes.                                        rates so as to be as near to the west as PhiladelQ. You stated that prior to 1858 they had a pllia and Baltimore.
general fixed tariff?.                           Mr. CONKLING-What were the  general
A. Yes, sir, prior to then the elements of the terms of that compact?
competition which changed the entire character   A. The general terms were, to carry freights at
of the long business, had not begun to work. uniform  rates-at stated  rates, which  we
There was not then the competition between agreed upon with, difference.
Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York that ex-   Mr. CONKLING —A sort of pro-rata arrangeists now. I will say, in regard to the Baltimore ment, was it?
and Ohio, and the Pennsylvania Central, that   A. The lines pro-rata-that is-let me exthey have the same objects to subserve to fulfill plain. Though that question does not enter into
their destiny. They wvere built with city and the case, the Pennsylvania Central practically
state capital, to subserve a certain city and state owns the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago
policy, and unless they could secure a liberal Railroad. It is all one with them; and whether
portion of the trade of the West to these cities, they pro-rated with that road is a fact that exists
they would not fulfill the destiny for which they in their own counsels.  But their connection
were constructed.  An investment of capital for with the west forced other lines to make comrevenue was not the moving cause for the con- binations to work against them, as they had one
struction of those lines. They are more severe line working straight through to the seaboard
competitors for the trade of the West, than it would not do for other lines to have divided
they would be if they were built solely with the counsels. It resulted in the lines generally runview to revenue, and of course they do not re- ning to the Northern States, from the seaboard
gar(l the procurement of revenue except as inci- to the west, dividing the receipts of the busident to their general arrangement.             ness, pro rata per ton, per mile, with some small
Q. What lines of communication to the far trifling allowances for ferriage, to the persons
West have been completed since 1857?          keeping those ferries; and with these exceptions
A. We regard all the elements introduced  it is a general pro rata.
since then as incident to the three lines, the    Q. Is or is not one man President of both
Pennsylvania Central, the Baltimore and Ohio, roads from Philadelphia to Chicago, by way of
and  the Grand  Trunk railroads.  There is the Pennsylvania Central, Fort Wayne and Chianother branch of business opened up to the cago roads?
West, which will probably grow to great im-   A. Onre man is President of the line from
portalce pretty soon, I do not know how ex- Philadelphia to Chicago-one set of agents speak
tensive it was last year, but the year before a for the management of the whole, and one man
large number of vessels loaded on the lakes for manages the whole line, so far as the public is
Liverpool, and returned with freights of mrer- concerled.
chandise for the West.  That is the fourth    Q. You say that was broken up in conse



10
quence of this large traffic moving to the west,    Mr. CONKLING-How  many are there in
leaving the lines which it formerly followed?    Chicago? 
A. Yes, Sir.                                 A. There may be four or five contending inQ. What was the result of the breaking up of terests in Chicago: the north side of the lake
that compact?  How did it effect the trade and  line, the south side of the lake line, Pennsylvacommerce that went there?                   nia Central, Baltimore and Ohio, and the Grand
A. We all felt, when it.was broken up, that Trunk lines. But each one of these is made up
we were to get thence onwards our legitimate  of several interests.  The New York Central
share of the business again,                 road is connected with the Great Western, North
Q. Was that the effect, or not?           Shore, South Shore, Michigan Central, and
A. I have no doubt that it was the effect. I Boston and Worcester lines. All these interests
recollect that during the last two years there  are represented. Some of the larger interests
has been less business, and we have all felt that employ' separate agents, while some join towe didn't get quite our share.               gether in maintaining an agency.
Q. But you have got your relative share?  Q. Is it the habit of the freight agents on these
A. Yes, sir. But we got less in proportion  southern lines to demand a uniform rate for the
than we did before these new carriers came into  transportation of freight?
the market.                                    A. There is a sort of effort of the agents of
Q, You stated something about what it was  the different lines to agree upon some rate; from
that created this warfare; state whether or not day to day some one cuts down the price once or
it was the insisting by the southern lines on  twice a day, and then the others come down.
carrying out that compact, and sticking to it.    Then they have a conference. The interest of
A. Yes, sir; and the refusal by the northern  these lines have to be put into the hands of these
lines to do it.                              persons who act with sufficient promptness to
Q. The southern lines understood that if that keep them strait.
compact was carried out, they would get the    Q. Suppose one line was unable to drop their
trade to the West?                          prices?
A. I think they didn't appreciate that more   A. I think it would be gratifying to the others.
fillly than we did who lost it.              They would get along a great deal more harmoQ. Will you state what course of action the niously.
southern roads adopted to get the trade again.    Q. They would lose the business, would they
A. They are just in the same position in  not?
which we now are. All these long lines have   A. They would do no more business until they
agencies and offices established in the great got out of that fix.
centres of business in the West. By centres, I   Q. And the others would eat them up?
mean those cities and large places where busi-   A. They would take the business.
ness concentrates, by having a good many in-   Mr. CONKLING-In crossing high elevations
terior lines reaching to those points. Wherever by railroad, how far does the diminished cost of
there is a considerable quantity of business to conducting trains down descending grades serve
be got at the West, all these competing avenues to compensate for the augmented cost of ascendof trade have their agencies established, solicit- ing grades?
ing business with a good deal of industry and    A. I think it would be found that nearly al!
perseverance.                                the saving rests in the simple economy in fuel.
Q. State what means they have in the western  When you get to the top of a grade you cannot
States, and New York city, in the east, for the get any more cars to go down the grade to lessen
procurement of freight and passengers.       the cost of the service and men connected with
A. As far as New York is concerned, they  the train, brakemen, enginemen, &c.; there is no
have, on Broadway, a very large number of means of lessening this per car per ton. You do
offices. I do not know how many. I should  save fuel. The strength of the southern lines
think there were ten or fifteen offices belonging  in overcoming their mountain grades consists in
to these lines, and in some other parts of the the cheap cost of their fuel. They use coal at
city less expensive ones; and there are some in  a very insignificant cost. I think it is inside of
Boston, in a less degree, however, because there  a dollar per ton; Mr. Hubby says that, on the
is less business. And so in the cities at the Baltimore and Ohio road, the cost is about seventy
West; at all the large places they have offices cents a ton. A ton of coal is more efficient than
established and  maintained, with  solicitors a cord of wood; and if it can be used in such a
who communicate directly with the owners of way as to secure the saving of all heat it is as
freight.                                     valuable as two cords of wood; but it has not
Q. Making personal application to the owners been so economized.'We pay from $2 to $2.50
of freight?                                  a cord. They get the same amount of fuel in a
A. Yes, sir; making contracts for it con- ton of coal at seventy cents. With that advanstantly. I should think that such a city as tage the disadvantage oftheirgradesis overcome,
Chicago might have, perhaps, no less than twenty  which places them in a condition to compete, to
men, whose sole business it is to confer with the  a certain extent, with the three Northern lines.
owners of freight, and endeavor to make con-   Mr. CONKLING-Is it your opinion that a locotracts for it-for the different interests.   motive engine can conduct a no more heavy
Mr. COBB-They are denominated drummers, train down a descending grade than it can haul
are they not'?                               up an ascending grade? that each engine has
A. Perhaps that is what they would be called. got to get up the grade with its load? do you
MIr. THOMPSON-Fifers, too!                 know of no practice of using increased locomoA. They generally act as if they were the tive power?
owners of the road, and controlling the State in    A. Yes, sir. If the grades are isolated so that
which they reside.                           they can manage it, they, of course, economize




11
very much. Some roads have grades of a greater the shortest roads, we get the highest prices, and
length, incident to long districts; where they on the long lines a less price, for the same aroccur thus frequently it has not been found ticles, in the same train, at the same time with
practicable to use this assisting power. I do not the articles on the short lin-e.
know how the Baltimore and Ohio road is man-   Q. Does the Grand TrunklRailway connect at
aged, but I think it is used there very little, be- Detroit? If so, how-what are its connections?
cause they have long grades, and not many of   A. Temporarily, the Grand Trunk has got a
these difficulties. I think that the great saving narrow gauge from Port Huron; the wide gauge
on those lines is in the cost of fuel, rather than  ends at Port Sarnia, on the east side of the river.
in the advantage of the descending line.     Port Huron is on the west side, opposite-and
Q. Has not the shortness of the route some- the narrow gauge commencing there comes down
thing to do with it?                         to Detroit. It was in contemplation, when it
A. The fact that it brings them  down to a was building, to have a broad gauge; but as
measure of miles in length, is a measure of its they were very short of stock they laid a narrow
capacity for service.                        gauge. They have leased locomotives for the
Q. Can all roads that compete from common line, and the cars of the Michigan Central, and
points, get the same pro rata per mile.     the Michigan Southern roads go up to Port
A. No, sir. A moment's thought will show  Huron  The transhipment is there effected by
you it could not be done. These roads most all ferry, as is the case here; they take the cars
carry freight, as I have said before, from  com- across so as to ship the freight from car to car;
mon points to market, at the aggregate price, instead of a ferry boat they have a long boat
and not at the same price per ton per mile. It upon which the cars are taken across. But it is
is the same aggregate price from source to mar- in contemplation to have a broad gauge to Deket. The longer line will get less per ton per troit; they have built transfer houses at Detroit,
mile than the shorter. For example, from Chi- preparatory to the transfer business, when the
cago to New York, over the New York Central broad gauge shall be brought there. They are
and Michigan Central, they will get more per now discussing the question as to the advisability
ton per mile than they will get by the Baltimore of putting a broad gauge into Boston over one
and Ohio; and from  Cincinnati to New York  of the lines from Portland, and putting a third
they will get more per ton per mile, on the rail on the road to Chicago, so as to haul broad
Baltimore and Ohio road, than they would on cars from Chicago to Boston.
the New York Central. In the one case, the   Mr. CONKLING-Is there machinery employBaltimore and Ohio forms a part of the long line, ed at any of these termini for the loading of
and the New York Central a part of the shorter, cars?
and, in the other case, the reverse, It follows   A. It is all done by manual labor.  Where
that the same kind of freight must be carried at grain is carried in bulk it is generally run into
different rates by each road-at higher rates the car, afterwards shoveled out of the cars into
when they form part of the short line, at lower pits below, and then elevated in the usual way.
rates when they form part of the long line. The Beyond that I don't know  of any machinery
New York Central cannot say that they will take being used.
a barrel of flour over their line in the long    Q. If the rate on the New York roads was
traffic, in competition with the other railroads, fixed at so much per ton per mile, what would
at the same price per mile as the others. In be the effect on long freights?
some lines it forms a part of the long competing    A. It would depend upon how frequently that
route, and in others, a part of the short cor- rate could be changed. If it could be changed
peting route, and they have got to take their every day it would be better.
proper pro rata share.                         Q. Suppose it could be changed once a
Q. So that, in your judgment, it is impossible month?
to apply that theory in practice for the trans-   A. It would give twenty-nine days of that
portation of freight on the longer lines of roadS month to the other lines, unless the rate on that
A. It has been strongly for my interest, that line was so low that it afforded no profit; then
that practice should be gone into at the North, they would have their share of the business. I
in connection with the New York Central line from  believe I have answered that question once beChicago. We have felt as if we formed a part fore.
with this New York Central road, of the short-   Mr. THOMPSON-Not exactly in that shape,
est line for that traffic. If we could have pro- and only incidentally.
cured the New York Central road to take flour   Mr. BROOKS-You asked me that last quesfrom us as cheaply as they could take it from  tion. I have not alluded to one point in relation
Cincinnati, it would have been greatly to our to it, which has just come into my mind. If the
advantage; but we have never felt justified in New York roads charge for the long and local
asking for that. So far as the Michigan Central freight one rate of transportation, it would inline is concerned, we have always treated the troduce to the western business, that comes by
question in that way. We have taken flour water, a new terminus. As a matter of course,
cheaper to Detroit when it came from St. Louis, it would put Oswego in the position of Buffalo.
than when it came from  Kenosha, Galena or If you had to put the price by rail per ton, per
Milwaukee; because, when we go to St. Louis, mile to Oswego, at the same rate as to Buffalo,
they have a shorter line to take their freight to of course the water-bound business would come
market, running  east, northeast, than ours. to Oswego. The New York Centralroad, as now
We form part of the longer route, and we carry regulated, has the power to make its long busieverything cheaper to the market than freight ness, the principal business-has power to put
which came from the Northwest.  We must do business on the long end of its line instead ol
that, or else abandon our St. Louis business. So having it cut through in the middle. If the
I may say with regard to all points that are on power to protect itself from inroad at the side is




12
lost, water-bound business would come to Oswe- competitors, they exercise no influence upon
go, and the west half of their line would be of that. As the canal has been the regulator of
no use for the purposes of long freights.    prices, so if the canal tolls are lowered so as to
Q. What is the effect of these low long freights bring rail prices down with them, they will put
on the country, on the price of land? State western lands nearer market than they now are,
what your experience upon that subject has to a certain extent; but they would have to inbeen, whether it has tended to diminish the troduce avast amount of grain from regions now
price?                                      uncultivated in the west, to the markets of the
A. I once had that question raised upon me world, before it would be affected by it.
a good many years ago, very agreeably, and I   Mr. COBB-Do you refer to the effect of indilook back upon it now with an inclination to vidual lines of the railroad system?
smile. Somewhere about the year 1850 we   A. I refer to the effect upon the State of New
opened our Michigan Central railroad to Lake York. If the whole system of railways could be
Michigan, in 1852 we opened it to Chicago. We blotted out from the west at once, it would cut
there met on the lake the waterborne carriers in off certain districts of lands of the west from the
boats. Not getting long business, we had to eastern markets, except by the Mississippi and
carry that long business at a lower rate than we St. Lawrence. Whether it would compel them
carried our local business, owing te the compe- to grow more at a less price, I do not know.
tition of these boats. We carried our local busi-   Q. Do you know whether or not the local rates
ness at a very great reduction upon the charges which the produce of the western states have to
which the state had charged. The state had pay to reach the competing points at the west,
built the road to Kalamazoo, which was the en- are as high or higher than the local rates on the
trepot. We took the road from the state and New York lines?
reduced the rates twenty-five per cent below the   A. I think it will be found that they are geneallowance in the charter, as we thought the rally not less than 25 per cent higher; I should
rates called for in our charter too high. But say more than that.  I know  our own rates
when we got to Chicago we had to reduce them  on the Michigan Central road are over 25 per
much lower; we had to commence at Niles, cent higher, from a 100 to 150 miles from Dewhich is situated on a navigable river where we troit or Chicago, are very far in advance of the
crossed it, about twenty or thirty miles from the New York Central's local rates. I think that
lake. There were these little steamboats taking will be found to be so over the whole west.
freight down the lake, which came thence around. There may be isolated exceptions, but the geneWhen we got to Niles we took that business ral rule is such as I state.
from the river at the rates charged by the boats,   Q. State to the Committee the relative cost of
and as our route was the best we took the whole carrying wheat and carrying flour on the railway,
of it, and broke up the system completely. The the same distance.
Kalamazoo people met and prepared an address   A. I do not know as there is much difference,
to us saying that we had ruined the price of land provided if the wheat is put in b: gs; but it is
in Kalamazoo county by carrying freight at lower hardly considered practicable to do so when you
rates from Berrien county. I wrote them a let- come to the bulk, it is more difficult to carry than
ter which was printed in pamphlet form, of flour. West of the Mississippi the plan is, to put
which I have not seen a copy for several years,,up the grain in bags for the St. Louis market;
but the purport of it was this, that unless it in- but where it is carried in bulk, as it is east of
creased the price of grain, and influenced the the Mississippi, there is a broad margin in favor
price raised upon the Mediterranean and the of carrying flour.
wheat-growing countries of the world, it would   Mr. COBB-Have you often attended railroad
not affect the price of their land unless we dam- conventions, during your 25 years' experience on
aged them, or raised the price between Kalama- railroads?
zoo and the markets, their land would be as it   A. I have attended quite a number of them.
was before, as we had reduced the price between   Mr. COBB-How extensive are they attended
Kalamazoo and the market more than 25 per by other lines?
cent, we had increased the value of their land,   A. I think we had one once at Cleveland
and as we had not carried wheat any cheaper where we figured 800 millions of dollars of
from Berrien county any cheaper than other lines capital.
we had not increased the price of land there.  Mr. COBB-But how many different lines?
Q. State that principle in its application to the   A. I do not know as I could say; we had a
lands in the State of New York.             vast number of roads.
A. I say, in regard to the lands of New York,   Mr. COBB-Are these four roads, the Baltithat if the New York Central Railroad has not more & Ohio, the Pennsylvania Central, the New
raised the price of products from any particular York & Erie, and the New York Central, are
district to the common markets, they have not they ordinarily conspicuous in those convenreduced the value of land in that region, unless tions?
they have done something which should deterio-   A. I believe there was no one present from
rate the prices in this common market, which those roads at that convention, except Mr.
they have not the power to do, because from all Moran.
the sources of the west they have done business   Mr. COBB-Is that the case with all the conat the rates of other lines; therefore, they did ventions?
not open up any more lands by their own acts in   A. I should think, as a general thing, one or
competition. I take it, that if all the lands in two of them are present at about a half of the
the west were opened up, it would not affect the conventions, perhaps a little more. When they
price of grain in the world. The grain-growing have had their compacts between themselves
regions are very large, and as the New York they have generally stood aloof from convenroads carry grain at the same prices as their tions held by the western lines. It depends a




13
little upon what they are called for. If they are by us, but I think there was a little want of
called for the fall or spring, to make running ar- faith in keeping it up with them.
rawgements, they have to be present. Some-   Mr. COBB-Did they not charge that on your
times they are represented by their principal northern routes?
officers; sometimes by their train managers.    A. They always charge it on each other, under
Mr. COBB-When the arrangements are being such circumstances, and I dare say the charges
made for their summer's business they are ordi- are very true.
narily represented?                            Mr. COBB-These railroad compacts are more
A. Yes, sir-and in the fall when the arrange- on paper than anywhere else?
ment are being made for winter trains.          A. They are very apt to result so. It is alMr. COBB-Represented by somebody?          most impossible, by law or agreement, to make
A. Yes, sir.                                the thing work steady. The best way is to put
Mr. COBB-While the St. Nicholas compact in the hands of freight agents the right to drop
was in existence they were present in the con- rates when anybody else does. We have come
ventions less than before?                   to that as the only practicable method.
A. Yes, sir.                                  Mr. COBB-Then to the public, who do not
Mr. COBB-In these conventions has any par- know that there is no fault in railroad compacts,
ticular line a controlling influence?        there is a liability of being largely deceived?
A. I don't think there is. We have some-   A. I think you might find some railroads as mean
times felt when we voted, (as we generally do, in their business operations as men in other lines
and have always done, by railroads,) that lines of business. I do not know of any peculiar qualsouth of the south shore of Lake Erie, there ity of mind or nature in railroad men, which
was an undue representation. There are a good should make them different from other men.
many roads in Ohio, and a good many short   Mr. COBB-I was not calling for a pro rata
ones.                                         distinction, but for your opinion upon the subMr. COBB-I refer to the four lines?        ject?
A. These short lines all carry the same vote as   A. I have seen contracts that worked well for
the long lines. We have frequently been em- a long period, but it is very rare. If one party
barrassed by the multitude of votes coming will live squarely up to the agreement, you will
from roads of a short distance, and lines less in- find some other party to it will cut under and
terested in the east and western trains than the take the business. When that is done the time for
long lines were.                              the dissolution of the compact is at hand, and
Mr. COBB-How are the roads represented-  while it exists it has a weakly life.
by miles?                                      Mr. COBB-It is a paper contract without any
A. Each road carries one vote-the long road seal?
the same as the short one.                      A. Yes, sir. When business gets short, there
Mr. COBB-As far as the Baltimore & Ohio, is a struggle for it, and when somebody drops
the Pennsylvania Central, the New York & Erie prices to secure it, then the compact dies out
and the New York Central are concerned, has pretty quick?
any one of them  a controlling influence to any    Mr. COBB-In the spring these four lines hold
extent?                                      a convention, and in the winter also?
A. I do not think they have; I think the   A. The conventions are generally held in the
northern roads have always felt that the south  spring and fall?
has always exercised too much influence.        Mr. COBB-Can you tell me what are the relaMr. COBB-That is a mere matter of opinion? tive prices between spring and summer; are
A. Yes, sir. Each one cast his vote to carry they higher or lower or is there anything like a
his point, otherwise I don't think there has been uniformity Y
any undue influence.                            A. In the winter they are higher than in the
Mr. COBB-Which of the roads do you re- summer.
gard as your allies?                           Mr. COBB-What is the cause of this adA. The New York Central and the Grand vance?
Trunk.                                          A. The cost of doing the work in the winter
Mr. COBB-You ship over either as occasion is a great deal higher than it is in the summer.
offers?                                      I think if we were compelled to work in the
A. We are unfortunate because our long lines winter at the rates we receive for summer busicast but one vote.                            ness, it would be better for us to leave the busiMr. COBB-But the Pennsylvania Central has ness and shut up our offices.
only one vote?                                 Mr. COBB-Is that the only cause which proA. Yes, sir. But the lines running into it al- duces an advance in prices?
ways vote with the Pennsylvania Central and    A. I have no doubt that the closing of the
against the Michigan Central.                 canals and lakes has a very great influence.
Mr. COBB-You have no feeders of that kind? When the lakes are closed from Chicago to BufA. They are very small. Our feeders lie west falo we can get a higher rate. When the St.
of Chicago, and with them  it is immaterial Lawrence, the Ohio river (though the Ohio river
whether they vote with us or with the Pennsyl- is more unsteady) and the canal is closed, and
vania Central. We have felt it to be very em- the Northern Mississippi, we can all get rates
barrassing to have the roads vote by routes and higher, and perhaps it gives us as much profit
not by miles.                                 on our business as we get on our summer busiMr. COBB-You have alluded to the St. Nich- ness at lower rates.
olas compact; did you state that the southern    Mr. COBB-Are not your winter rates ordinaroads adhered to that rigidly?               rily remunerative?
A. I think they cut freights even on that. I   A. I should think that, one year with another,
think they were much in favor of keeping it up  they are.




14
Mr. COBB-How would it compare with yoar   Mr COBB —Imean for the purpose of engaging
summer remuneration?                       business?
A. I rather think we get quite as much net   A. Yes, sir.
out of the summer.                            Mr. COBB-How much further west do they
Mr. COBB-Take the traffic together on one have agencies?
line of it?                                  A. I cannot tell you that.
A. Of course we make more money out of   Mr. COBB-They extend, at all events, from
passengers, because our rates are not much Chicago to New York city?
higher in winter than in summer-not near as   A. It is generally understood that in the large
much as the cost is. We make more in summer sources of business there are men who look out
than in winter. I do not think we get more than for the interests of these great lines, extending
10 or 12 per cent for running our passenger from the centres of business.
business more.                                Mr. COBB-You remarked, that previous to
Mr. COBB-You speak of a large number of 185,'58, your rates were made up by yourfreight agents in Chicago. Have the lines over selves, and there was less cutting down?
which they engage, a tacit understanding to pro   A. Yes, sir.
rate with each other on any contracts which   Mr. COBB-What was the position of the
they make?                                 Michigan Central at that time, compared with
A. I think that is generally understood  The the present?
Pennsylvania Central has its own counsels in its   A. We got very much better rates.
management. Our understanding is, that if we   Mr. COBB-What was its financial condition,
keep within reasonable limits the others will compared with the present?
hold to it. If the rates are unreasonably low,   A. Better-imuch better. There were fewer
the remedy is to call a convention.         lines to divide the business among. It is partly
Mr. COBB-Then they have a power of attor- owing to financial disaster, and the great depresney to make contracts, and you carry them out? sion of the trade of the country. How much is
A. That has not been formally given, but owing to that, and how much to the division of
there is a general understanding.           the business among the different lines, is a matMr. COBB-It amounts to an understanding. ter of judgment.
Do you ever repudiate contracts entered into?  Mr. COBB-What proportion of your busiA. I do not say that. If we take a contract at ness is called through business? That which
below paying rates it is held to as a matter of comes from Chicago?
courtesy. There is no compulsion. The Great   A. I don't think I have seen the figures in reWestern road in Canada do have some bicker- gard to that subject for the last three or four
ings.                                       years. I should think that one-third of the
Mr. COBB-But it ends in a settlement by number of tons we move was through. The
which the property is carried?             long tons moved would be less than half of the
local.
A. Sometimes the person making the contract   Mr. COBB-That would be about one-third of
has to pay the loss. We at the west think that the total?
the agents of the four lines at the east can judge   A. Less than half of the whole. I think it is
whether they can get business from them better more than one-third. As a mere matter of judgthan we can. We at the west have better op- ment, I should say that the through tons put
portunities for judging of the prospects for busi- into the car, were two-fifths of the total number
ness at the west. Sometimes ships carry to and of tons. But what proportion of the tonnage
from New Orleans very cheaply, and particularly moving one mile it is, is another question. The
when it comes to the cotton trade going to the long business goes the whole length of the road;
north. We are quite willing at such times to the short business, ten miles and upwards.
drop our prices at the west to keep the trade in   Mr. COBB-What are the present quotations
the northern channels, which, in the west, has a of the Michigan Central stock?
chance to go down the rivers. They feel that   A. I think the last I saw was 38?
we can best judge at the west end of the route,   Mr. COBB-What was it in 1857?
and we feel that their judgment is better at the   A. In the spring of 1857 business was much
east. It is the same way as partners in a certain better than in the fall. That was the year when
business living at different points, and where everything broke down.
both are interested in the result of the opera-   Mr. COBB-Previous to July, how was it?
tions at both places. Each would rely upon the   A. I cannot recollect; I should think it was
other to look after their joint interests at his more than 50; I may be mistaken.
own end of the line, because each in his own   Mr. COBB-Was there ever any time when its
position can better serve the other's interest than stocks were worth 100?
the other could himself.                      A. There was a time when it was over par.
Mr. COBB-Have the New York Central and   Mr. COBB-How long since?
the New York and Erie, in their agencies'at Chi-   A. A good many years. It was not within 5
cago, signs over their doors?              or 6 years.
A. They have agents there. I am not certain   Mr. COBB-Was it within 6 or 7?
whether the New York Central has an office   A. It may be; I am very bad at remembering
there or not. I dare say they have. The New  dates.
York and Erie has.                            Mr. COBB-What were the relative rates of
Mr. COBB-They are as much represented as compensation for the traffic you performed then,
at the city of Albany?                     compared with now?
A. Not as much as the city of Albany, per-   A. Our rates must have been a good deal higher
haps, Albalny being one of the termini of the than now; I cannot tell the relative rates; it
road.                                       would be a hard matter to go back 5 or 6 years.




1.5
Mr. COBB-But you must have a general re-   Mr. COBB-Then do you regard it that a ton
collection?                                 of either of these commodities costs no more
A. Our passenger rates were not any higher than a ton of anything else to transport?
than now.                                      A. I do not think it does much. I would
Mr. COBB-I refer to freight.              rather carry flour than some other articles.
A. I cannot tell.                            Mr. COBB-Then there is very little differMr. COBB-What was the relative amount of ence in the cost of movement. No matter what
tonnage you moved at that time compared with  the commodity is, whether first, second or third
now?                                        class; a ton of flour would represent a ton of
A. That I am unable to tell you.           anything else'
Mr. COBB-What was about the relative value   A. I cannot say that. I would rather carry
of Great Western stock in 1857, previous to July, flour than molasses. Some kinds of sugar we
as compared with its value now?             have trouble with.
A. It was very high until they commenced to    Mr. COBB-Will a ton of flour fairly reprebuild their branches, about par; when they com- sent, as near as may be, a ton of anything else.
menced them it began to drop.                  A. I would rather carry a ton of flour than
Mr. COBB-What is its value now?          a ton of anything else.
A. I cannot tell.                           Mr. COBB-What is the difference.
Mr. COBB-Very considerably lower?           A. I don't think I would make much differA. I have never seen a quotation of that in ence.
my life. I do not know that there ever has been a   Mr. COBB-How would it be with pork in
share sold in the market so as to have a quota- barrels. Would a ton of that fairly represent
tion.                                        a ton of anything else?
Mr. COBB-What is the lowest rate at which    A. I think that rolling freight is better than
you ever transported freight?               other freights.
A. I should think we had carried for less than    Mr. COBB-Would you regard a ton of moa cent a ton per mile. Once and a while we lasses as about the worst.
have worked for the purpose of putting the price   A. I should think a ton of that or a ton of
down, when the cutting at Chicago has been so beef would be an average.
irregular that we could not work with satisfac-   Mr. COBB-And the cost of transporting that
tion, we have then put down prices to bring the would represent the cost of moving anythinog.
rates again to a paying point.                A. Almost anything. Gentlemen can judge
Mr. COBB-Your object was to punish your as well as I. It is a mere question of the safety
competitors?                               of the article and of its destructability.
A. The object was to secure a meeting at once.   Mr. COBB-I am not a railroad man, and we
When we found they were charging 95, when we call upon railroad men for information about that
asked 100, we dropped to 95; then they fell to which we have only a theoretical knowledge.
90; we followed, and they dropped to 85. When You mentioned that the Pennsylvania Central is
that course is pursued, as it is occasionally, then  actually now running to Chicago; is not the weswe put rates down to such a figure as will call tern end of that road in the hands of a receiver?
the attention of the officers of the road at once,   A. Yes, sir. I believe it is the Pittsburgh,
and an arrangement is promptly made by which  Fort Wayne and Chicago.
paying rates may be secured.                   Mr. COBB-It is in the hands of the receiver?
Mr. COBB-What is the cost of the movement   A. Yes, sir.
of freight per ton per mile, as you estimate it 2   Mr. COBB-I think you said the southern
A. I made one explanation of what I consider- roads, the Baltimore and Ohio, and the Penned as new business.                          sylvania Central were less affected by the exMr. COBB-I mean new business.             tremes of heat and cold than the northern?
A. I dont think I have ever figured that on   A. Yes, sir, very much. I believe with regard
our road.                                   to the receiver of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne
Mr. COBB-Do you suppose that your road is and Chicago, that it was made satisfactory to
operated dearer or cheaper than the New York  Mr. Thompson, the president of both roads, it
Central?                                   and the Pennsylvania Central, and that the arA. I do not think it should be much different. rangement is such as not to embarrass the busiOur grades are not very much different from  ness at all.
those of the New York Central.                Mr. HOVEY-You have stated to the comMr. COBB-Do you suppose the cost to be  mittee that, in your judgment, if the fourth class
smaller?                                   freights should be taken from the railroads in
A. I think we have mutual advantages. They this state, instead of going by the canal, a large
have grades easier a little, but we have fuel portion would go by roads outside of the state?
cheaper. It is about the same.                A. I said a considerable proportion.  How
Mr. COBB-Is there any difference between  large a proportion I did not state. A considerathe cost of moving fourth class merchandise and  ble proportion would go to the railroads of other
other commodities  Are there any distinctions states, along with the other three classes. I
in the value of handling a barrel of flour and a thought some, now going upon the canals, would
barrel of beef or pork?                     follow. I stated that the trade of the southern
A. Not very appreciable. I would rather carry  cities would increase, drawing from all classes
flour a little, than the others.             from the northern cities. Whether the aggreMr. COBB-Do you regard it that a ton of gate result would be a reducing or increasing the
flour or a ton of beef may be carried as cheap as canal or not is a question of judgment.
a ton of anything else?                      Mr. HOVEY-Do you know what proportion
A. I should regard all those articles as being the fourth class freight, moved by the canals is,
very favorable to cheap transportation.      compared with that by railroads?




16
A. I have no doubt of it.                   Mr. HOVEY-They would lose the whole
A. I have not the slightest idea.         business?
Mr. HOVEY-Do you not know  that it is   A. Unless they fixed the rates so near cost
much larger than that carried by all the freights that other roads would not accept the rate dictacarried by the railroads of this state?    ted, they would. I think the New York Central
A. I do not know  anything about it. The worked in this way for five years. It would sefourth class carried by railway, covers certain  verely try the patience of the Pennsylvania Censpecified articles. If you put all canal freights tral railroad, but I think she would work for
into the freight cars, it must be very immense.  such an advantage.
Mr. HOVEY-Do you make your prices on    Mr. HOVEY-Does that bring yon to the conheavy articles, beef, pork and flour, and freight clusion that the long business now on these
of that character, with direct reference to the  roads, is done at little or no profit, with such
canal prices in the summer?                  competition as now exists?
A. No, sir. So far as we tare concerned we   A. I think that the long business is done at a
make them more with reference to lakere trans-considerable profit. I think it can be kept up at
portation. If we are running back our cars to   the rate     now done. None of the roads can
Chicago empty, we fill them at very low rates. others do it, and theres of long busing to b e gained
If we are running them  back full, and getting       do it, and       ther       e gained
low rates, we would let the lake take the whole Y  o rk Central where they ow aretes o  the Neth.
freight.                                  e York Central where they now are, for a month.
freight. HOVEY-I asked with reference to your The agents of other lines at Chicago would drop
coMr. HnnectionVEY-I asked with York Ceference to your their prices two cents, or five cents per hundred
A. In summer it makes  no difference to the  pounds, and get the business. They would continue to reduce the price from month to month,
New York Central whether it goes by lake or
by rail, and we have to go squarely against lake. until the rates were very near cost.
The New York Central cannot give us any freight competition on the stock of the road for th
to help us in the summer.                    next five years?
next five years j
Mr. HOVEY-In your judgment is there any    A. It is hard to tell. I have generally )}een
route from Lake Erie to New York cheaper than  of the opinion that the longer this competition
the New York Central or Hudson River?       continued, the more it would make the roads
A. I have no knowledge of the capacity of the pursue a conservative course, and stick to the
canal.                                      rates, finding that, in cutting prices, they were
Mr. HOVEY-I speak of the railroads.       met with promptness by a similar reduction by
A. I do not.                              other roads.
Mr. HOVEY-You think no route can do it   Mr. HOVEY-Do you regard the action of
better?                                    these roads, during the past year, as having been
A. Ithink not. I think that long lines can  conservative?
put down rates so as to make it unprofitable.   A. I cannot say I do.
Long lines have the capacity to take away the   Mr. HOVEY-iHas not competition been going
profitable margin of the short lines. If the New  on without any regulation or order 2
York Central can make 25 per cent, these other   A. The competition has been very severe; it
longer lines have to be satisfied with 10 or 12 is almost always so when a new road enters into
per cent.                                   a traffic and attempts to get it away from old
Mr. HOVEY-You stated to the Committee, ones. It is generally very strong and very perthat if prices were fixed for freight from east to  severing. Such was the case with the Southern
west, that unless they were fixed so low that the lines, and such is the case with the Grand Trunk
business would pay no profit, it would go to  now. They have got to make patrons for their
other roads?                                new avenue, and introduce the public to it.
A. It would.                              People are attached to old avenues and induceMr. HOVEY-Do you mean that this immense ments have to be made to secure their patronage
business would be done at a loss to get it?  for the new ones. The inducements are lower
A. I do not think it would do it at a loss. I rates. When at last they had formed acquain.
think the Pennsylvania Central and Baltimore tenances and secured patronage, they would
and Ohio would work at a loss for a time, under consent to organize and fix prices at fair rates
the impression that it would strengthen their with the other lines. In another year another
road from the East in the trade with the West, new line, without friends and without patrons,
so that they would, eventually, make considera- comes into competition, and again the arrange-'ble profit. We frequently open a business which ments are thrown into pi by their cutting rates
is dependent for its future hopes of success in to get patrons. This being secured, they of
doing blusiness at rates, for the present, that are course would be conservative.
not at all remunerative. If I was the controller   Mr. HOVEY-Then the establishment of busiof the affairs of the Pennsylvania Central and ness is no avail unless you do it as cheap as anyBaltimore and Ohio railroads, I would do a body else.
large amount of business at cost, to these cities,   A. I don't think it is of much value in the
with the idea that it would result favorably to freight business; in the passenger business it may
them il the future.                         have; but even there it has a wearing off tenMr. HOVEY-Having expressed the opinion  dency which would result injuriously.
that the New York Central can do business as   Mr. HOVEY-Do you know the distances from
low as any other route, do you think there would Detroit to Boston, Portland and New York, by
be danger of a final loss to that road if they  the Grand Trunk.
were compelled to do business at a fixed pub-   A. I do not; I think it is as near from Detroit
lished rate for a month?                   to Boston as it is from Detroit to Portland, con



17
siderably nearer; if so, it is a hundred miles         S T A T E M E N T
nearer from Detroit to Boston by the Grand
Trunk than by the New York Central, and Al- Of SOLOMON  DRULLARD,  General Freight
bany and Western. The Grand Trunk, I might   Agent of the New York Central RailmentisQn, has introduced a new element in the    road Company.
traffic, that of advancing money on freights.
Mr. COBB-Is not the New York Central re-   I have been General Freight Agent of the New
presented in the Board of Directors of the Michi- York Central Railroad Company, since Septemgan Central.                 ber, 1854; and previous to that time was GeneA. Mr. Corning is a member of our board.    ral Freight Agent of the Buffalo and Hornellsville
[During a subsequent stage of the proceedings, Railroad. I was formerly engaged in the canal
Mr. Brooks appeared before the Committee and transportation business, from  1827 up to the
made the following additional statement, in ex- time of my appointment to the General Freight
planation of a part of his testimony. Reporter.] Agency of the Buffalo and Hornellsville Railroad.
Mr. BROOKS-I understand that I said in re-   I think the cost of' moving way-freight, exply to the last gentleman, that all freights could ceeds by one-third the cost of movingl throughbe carried at about the same rates. I understood freight, and perhaps more, inasmuch as waythe gentleman to mean fourth-class freights, trains, do not, in the course of business, take or
goods carried at about the same rates as molasses convey more than two-thirds the number of cars
and beef. I did not understand the question to that through-trains do-perhaps less; that the
cover the first, second and third classes. It would way-cars are very frequently but partially loadbe absurd to suppose that a ton of chairs or grain ed. It also requires a longer time to go a given
cradles, of which you cannot carry more than a distance, in consequence of the frequent stopton or two in a car, would be as cheap as the pages-going on and off the switches to get to
others. I supposed I had so stated the facts as the freight houses, for loading and unloading
not to be mistaken. I supposed that the question  freight, thus increasing the cost of motive
referred to what was a fair average for fourth- power, and the men employed on freight trains;
class freight.                              that from two to five and six men are required
Mr. COBB-Can you load your cars fully with at the several way-stations, to load and unload,
first and second class goods.              to make out way-bills, collect charges, deliver
A. Some of the kinds we can. There is a wide and receive freight, making the cost of conveying
difference. Of furniture you can get but very way-freight, as compared with through, from 40
little.                                      to 50 per cent greater. The way-business is chiefMr. COBB-Dry goods in boxes and bales?   ly independent of the through, requiring separate
A. You could, I should think; you would men and management, and is necessarily governonly suffer greater risk of loss or damage. High ed by different rules, and should be conducted
priced goods are more susceptible to damage. under different tariffs, and must be, if the differSome goods we can get only one or two tons in ence in cost of transportation is taken into aca car that carries ten tons, and with some we get count.
in the full weight.                           I have examined the way-freight tariffs, of the
Mr. COBB-What do you suppose is the aver- eighteen different and principal freight roads,
age tonnage per car, the season through, of first presented to the Committee in the testimony of
and second class goods 1                    Mr. Spaulding, as well as the local freight tarA. I could not guess any better than yourself iffs of many other roads, and find that no roads
Some may carry ten tons and others not more do their local freighting at rates as low as those
than two tons. They range between those two charged by the New York Central on all their
figures.                                    way-freights; nor do I believe, that greater acMr. COBB-Taking goods in boxes and bales commodations, or more dispatch, are afforded to
which are pretty heavy, would you estimate the shippers of local freight on the line of any other
cost of moving these as greater than moving the road, than are given on the New York Central.
fourth class'                                From my knowledge of the freighting business
A. I do not think the simple difference in the on the New York Central Road. I am confident,
cost of movement amounts to much, but the that it could not do a way and through-business
hazard and liability to damage makes the differ- under a pro rata law; nor could it do a throughen~ce.                   O                  business in competition with the rival lines, if
Mr. COBB-Then it depends upon the value compelled to make and publish a tariff, which
of the commodity, whether heavy or light?  could not be varied for thirty days; for, as
A. Yes, sir.                              soon as a tariff was published, competing lines
Mlr. COBB-Take the third class goods; do would drop sufficiently under it to secure the
not the cars ordinarily go fully loaded when business from all competing points. In a comyou carry that class.           peting business, like the transportation of proA. So far as the third class is concerned, I perty, without the power of immediate change
cannot now name any articles which belong in in prices, we become the prey of aggression,
that class-I am ignorant of that detail as to without the power of self-protection; our right.what belongs to one class or the other. I could to change, even if not used, is our only and
not divide the articles into their respective strong safeguard.
classes at all.                               A measure like the one asked for in the petiMr. COBB-Is there not a wide dissimilarity tions, would, in my judgment, divert the trade
in the price of movement of articles which you fiom New York, and her roads, to a very serious
can't put.eight or ten tons in a car, and does not extent, and injuring materially the large investthe only difference consist in the value of the ments made by the business interests of the
article                                     State.
A. Yes, sir, and the liability to damage?  While in Chicago, last week, I found that the




18
agents of the Grand Trunk Railroad, had actu- venience, and that property belonging to Buffalo
ally contracted to convey a large quantity of was detained until that received from the west
provisions from Chicago to Liverpool, at eighty- had gone forward. It is the usual and proper
seven and one-half cents per one hundred  course for the company to transport property in
pounds. This freight was offered to the New  the order in which it is received, giving preferYork Central and Erie Roads at the same price, ence as far as they can, to perishable property,
but it was declined at so low a rate. The Grand and late in the fall or early in December, at about
Trunk Road is to be a formidable competitor to which time the river closes, the company will
the New York Roads, and is now taking busi- not receive property to ship through except at
ness to the seaboard from them at Chicago, St. their convenience after property previously reLouis, Cincinnati and other common western ceived, has gone forward. There is generally for
towns, at prices considerably below  those at a few days at about the close of navigation a
which property has heretofore been transported press of fieight at Buffalo and other points to go
through New York.                             east, which makes a few days' delay absolutely
The case alluded to in the New York Tribune, necessary before all property offered can be
of December last, about which one of the Com- shipped, but it always goes forward in the
mittee made inquiry, must be amistake. I have order which it is received, and as fast as the
no knowledge of cattle being driven from Bergen large equipment of the road can transport it.
to Buffalo, to take the cars for Albany. Cases November 1st, 1854, the tariff on flour firom Bufof this kind have occurred. Parties living at falo to New York, was seventy cents per barrel,
Bergen, and other places on the line of the Cen- and to Albany sixty cents. This continued until
tral Road, west of Rochester, have at times been the boats on the Hudson river put up their freight,
allowed, when the rates of transportation were which made a corresponding advance from Buffair, to ship their cattle from Buffalo to points falo to New York necessary. The advance was
on the line of the road east, unload them with a five cents per barrel, so that on the 13th Novemview of a few weeks' pasturage, then take them  ber, flour from Buffalo to New York was seventyup and transport them to Albany without extra five cents. On the 21st November, fieights were
charge. At one time, last summer, when the  advanced on flour to seventy-eight cents to New
competition was sharp, and prices very low, one York, and sixty-five cents to Albany. December
of the shippers, who had previously enjoyed the 9th the tariff on flour from Buffalo to Albany,
privilege just mentioned, desired to avail him- was seventy cents, from Rochester to Albany,
self of its benefits again, but was refused at the fifty-five cents, and Canandaigua to Albany fifty
then low rates  the cattle were therefore sent cents per barrel. On the 2d January all the
through without charge at the competing prices. freight at Buffalo was cleared out, so that no
Mr. Cobb is very much mistaken in his state- complaint could be made on account of delay.
ment before the Committee, that no property was January 4th, the rate on flour from  Buffalo to
shipped for the citizens of Buffalo, between Oct. New York was ninety-five cents, of which the
20th and Nov. 20th, on the Central Railroad. Hudson River Road received thirty-seven and a
They had, it is true, large quantities of freight half cents per barrel. January 10th, the rates
to be forwarded at that time, but it did not pre- on flour to New York were advanced to $1.10
vent shipments of Buffalo freights, between the cents per barrel, of which the Hudson River
dates just mentioned. It frequently occurs in Road received forty-five cents per barrel, leaving
the fall, when the canal has more than it can do, to the New York Central Road sixty-five cents
that forwarders are desirous of making large per barrel from Buffalo to Albany. In February,
shipments on the railroad on short notice, at a the Hudson River Road reduced their prices,
time when there is a large quantity of property  and the tariff was again established at ninety-five
in the railroad freight houses, which has been cents per barrel from Buffalo to New York. No
previously received. This delays property for freights at this time was taken fiom westron points,
the Buffolo forwarders for a few days, as pro- It a different tariff from the above. ~kj]itrary
perty must be dispatched in the order it is re- rates were maintained at Dunkirk, B ffalo and
ceived. But this state of things never lasts but Suspension Bridge, on freights fiom the northa few days at a time.                         west, and generally so from the southwest, with
I have examined the case charged against the the exception of cases where the roads of New
Central Road, by Mr. Parsons of Rochester, -who York were brought into competition with the
said that flour was taken from Rochester to New  southern lines, until the lines of the southern
York for sixty cents per barrel, while eighty-seven roads were extended through to Chicago, which
and a half cents was charged from Fisher's Sta- so much increased the competition for through
tion, sixteen miles east of Rochester. The expla- business that arbitrary rates could no longer be
nation given by Mr. Briggs, before the Committee, maintained without a loss of the business to the
is correct. The flour was shipped by the Central New York lines-. The cases mentioned by Mr.
Road to Albany, to the care of the Swiftsure Line Cobb, where Ificriminations were made, have
of tow boats on the river at fifty-:rcen 5 e  almost all of them occurred within the past two
1 X 18;@~PS~' iaf~.~     not reach Albany in years, when the competition with rival lines has
time to take the river before its close, was carted been unparalleled, and when it was necessary to
over the river by the Swiftsure Line to the Hud- take freights from common competing points at
son River Road, at an expense of five and half very low prices, in order to show the rival lines
cents per barrel, and was charged on the Hudson that it was better to return to fair and established
River Road, the usual winter tariff thirty cents prices, and that they would get as much business
per barrel to New York. There was no fault on by so doing, as they did under extreme low rates.
the part of the Central Road in regard to it.  I find as much discrimination between, long and
A complaint was made on the part of the pe- short distances, and against the people of this
titioners, that the Central Road, last fall, in Buf- state, in the transportation, on the canals as is
falo, received flour to ship at the company's con- made by railroads, and I give a few cases which




19
have mostly come under my observation the past        Rochester, 415 miles, 12 cents per 106
year, in the document marked A, appended to           lbs. A pro rata would have been,
this statement. My experience is, that discrimi-      from New York to Rochester, 5 14nations between long and short freights are gene-     100 cents per 100 lbs.
ral on all lines of transport.              Aug., 1859. New York to Detroit, via Oswego,.Tanuary 31st, 1860.    S. DRULLARD.                14 cents per 100 lbs. Syracuse to
Canastota, 20 miles, 10 cents per 100
lbs. A pro rata, from Syracuse to
A.                                Canastota, would have been 4 2-3
mills, or less than half a cent per 100
CANAL DISCRIMINATIONS.                         lbs.
10 Sept. 1, 1859. On the day the Canal Convention
~Ma~y, 1869. New York to Buffalo, 514 miles, 10       was held in Rochester, the freight on
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to            flour was 36 cents per barrel, by
Rochester, 415 miles, 12 cents per          canal, both from Buffalo and Ro100 lbs. At pro rata it should have         chester, to New York, one 614 miles,
been 8 4-100 cents per 100 lbs., or         the other 415 miles. At pro rata
one-third less than was charged to          rate, it should have been only 29
Buffalo.                                    64-100 cents per barrel from RoJune, 1859. New York to Lockport, 483 miles,          Rochester.  Difference against Ro16 cents per 100 lbs. New York to           chester millers, nearly 6 cents per
Cleveland, 700 miles, 12 cents per          barrel.
100 lbs.  A pro rata to Lockport Oct. 21, 1859. Buffalo to New York, 50 cents
would be 7 87-100 per 100 lbs., or          per barrel for flour. New York to
less than half the amount charged.          Cleveland, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A
June, 1859. New York to Lockport, 16 cents            pro rata on flour, from Buffalo to
per 100 lbs., 483 miles. Brockport          New York, would be 19 cents per
to Medina, 10 cents per 100 lbs. At         barrel, or considerable less than onepro rata, the rate between Brockport        half charged.
and Medina, would be 9 mills, or
andless than one-tenth that was charged.   These cases have all occurred within the preless than one-tenth that was charged.
July, 1859. New York to Syracuse, 8 cents per sent year, and they might be multiplied to fill
100 lbs., 366 miles.  Syracuse to up as many books as have been published by the
Manlius, 10 miles, 8     cents per 100 Clinton League. They are of every day occurlbs. At pro rata, the rate between rence, and sbow quite as glaring a difference as
Sy racuse and Manlius,  would have  can be found on any of the railroads in the State.
been 3 mills per 100 lbs., instead of They show one prominent feature in the carry10 cents.                        ing trade-that short distances pay higher rates
July, 1869. Albany to Syracuse, 166 miles, 12 than long ones, by the same mode of transit.
cents per 100 lbs. New York to Sy-                  S. DRULLARD,
racuse, 316 miles, 8 cents per 100 lbs.         Genl. Frt. Agt. N. Y. C. R. R.
A pro rata, between Albany and Sy-   January 30, 1860.
racuse, would be 4 1-5 cents, or
about one-third the amount charged.
July, 1869. Albany to Rochester, 269 miles, 14   The testimony of Mr. Brooks and Mr. Drullard
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to
Rochester, 419 miles, 10 cents per was fully corroborated in all its details, by the
100 lbs. At pro rrata, from Albany, evidence of Messrs. Stone, Minot, Marsh, Hubby,
to Rochester, would be 6 42-100 per Phillips, Boody, Briggs and Spaulding, all ex100 lbs.
July, 1869, Albany to Rome, 125 miles, 10 perienced and enlightened railroad men. And
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to it was clearly shown that it cost at least one-half
Syracuse, 316 miles, 8 cents per 100 more per ton per mile, to transport way freight
lbs. At pro rata, from Albany to
Rome, it should have been 3 27-100 than through; that it was impossible to do both
cents per 100 lbs.               way and through on the pro rata principle; that
July, 1859. Albany to Utica, 100 miles, 10 the through business would have to be given up,
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to
Detroit, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro and an increased charge by the railroads made
rata would be, from Albany to Utica, for carrying way freight. That it costs, at least
1 96-100 cents per 100 lbs., or less thirty per cent more, to do freighting in the winthan one-quarter the price charged.
Aug., 1859. Albany to Amsterdam, 47 miles, ter than i the summer, on the northern roads.
10 cents per 100 lbs. New York to That a fixed tariff on the part of the New York
Cleveland, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A roads, that could not be changed for thirty days'
pro rata, from Albany to Amsterdam, would enable competing lines to take all the
would have been 8 mills per 100 Ibs.
Aug,, 1859. New York to Brockfort, 17 cents through business from the New York roads, by
per 100 lbs. New York to Sandusky, dropping a little under the fixed tariff. That it
more than double the distance, 12 would not increase business upon the canals,
cents per 100 lbs.
Aug., 1869. New York to Chicago, 1,400 miles, but would be likely to take it from them, from
18 cents per 100 lbs. New York to the state, and from the city of New York.








ON THE
CARRYING TRADE
OF THE
RAILWAYS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK:
VIEWED IN CONNECTION WITH OUTSIDE COMPETITION.
ADDRESSED TO THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY AND STATE OF
NEW YORK.
NEW YORK:
PRINTED BY WM. L. S. HARRISON,
80 AND 82 DUANE STREET.
1860.








LEGISLATIVE RESTRICTIONS
ON THE
CARRYING TRADE OF THE RAILWAYS OF
NEW YORK.
To the Citizens of the City and State of New York:
FROM the memorable struggle which, through the exertions
of the indomitable Clinton, resulted in the construction of the
Erie Canal, the people of the State of New York have in no
instance been called upon to decide a graver question than that
presented in the proposition to place legislative restrictions
upon the carrying trade of our railways. Those who favor this
policy argue that railway competition works a two-fold injury
to the State: that it, promotes the farming, manufacturing and
industrial interests of other States to the detriment of our own,
and that it materially lessens the revenues of our canals. To
remedy these evils they propose that the Legislature shall
enact the "pro rata freight bill" of 1858, and reimpose tolls on
the railroads. On the other hand it is contended that the proposed measures would operate disastrously on the railroads,
would increase the burthens of our agricultural and manufacturing interests by a still further increase of the cost of transportation within our own State, would drive a large portion of
the through traffic upon rival thoroughfares outside of the
State, and hence would fail to benefit the canals. To understand properly the comprehensiveness and momentousness of
the issue, let us, at the outset, survey our present commercial
position as a State.
For a time, and up to the period of the completion of the
several great railway thoroughfares connecting the Atlantic
coast with the region beyond the Alleghanies, the bulk of our
inland commerce, between the East and the West, pursued
interchangeably one undeviating course over the water lines




4
traversed by the Hudson, the Erie Canal, the great lakes, and
the Western canals and rivers. Within the last few years,
however, a silent btut mighty revolution has taken place. Iron
rails, starting from  our principal seaboard ports south of us,
may now be seen winding their way through the valleys and
along the lateral slopes of the Alleghanies, climbing Qver the
back of the huge monster, tieing themselves as they pass to
numerous intersecting roads, and to landing-places on the Ohio,
the Mississippi and other rivers, and at Pittsburgh, Chicago,
Wheeling, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, St.
Louis, Louisville, and places of lesser note, connecting with that
vast railway net-work which collects and concentrates to those
points the produce of the prairies, the great basin, and the
trade of the interior towns. Thousands of untiring locomotives,
harnessed to long trains of laden cars, regardless of the darkness of night, snow drift or storm, are hastening to and fro;
some to deliver the merchandise of the East to the West, and
others to return the products of the West to the East. North
of us the mountains of Vermont and New Hampshire yield
their patient backs to similar iron bands, which stretch from
the seaports of New England to the St. Lawrence, to Lake
Ontario, and through the Canadas to the upper lakes, where
they interchange commodities with the people of the Northwest. In addition to these, the improvements in steam navigationj in the construction of steamers and propellers-improvements which have kept equal pace with those of the railwayhave brought into active and formidable competition a mammoth coasting line, which receives freight from all our Atlantic
ports, delivers it at 1Ntew Orleans, and returns with the products
of the valley of theMississippi and the Ohio. Its influence is
sensibly felt even as far towards the Northwest as Indiana and
Illinois. We may also remark here that the same improvements which enable this line to compete succcessfully for our
carrying trade, are brought into use by the competing railways,
where they connect with the waters of the interior, and also in
drawing business to themselves from localities North and South
of their termini on the coast of the Atlantic.
We will now consider more specifically the capacities of
these rival routes. First in order, South of us, is the Pennsylvania Central Railroad. This road runs from Philadelphia to




Pittsburgh, and there, in connection with the Fort Wayne and
Chicago Railroads, forms a continuous line to Chicago. It also
connects with roads running direct to Cleveland, Columbus,
Cincinnati, and all the important points of the West and Southvest. Pittsburgh, having its site at the confluence of the Alleghany and Monongahela rivers, which there form the Ohio, is
the receiving and distributing'point for the commerce of a vast
area of country; and has a navigable water communication of
many thousand miles. From the Alleghan y, during a portion
of the year, it receives business by means of small boats from
the northward as high up as Olean in our own State. On the
Ohio river, which bears southwesterly, passing by Wheeling,
Cincinnati, Louisville, and numerous other enterprising towns
on the borders of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Indiana, and
Illinois, it commands 959 miles of navigation by large class
steamers to the Mississippi, and thence to all the prominent
places on that great "Father of Waters," from the highest
accessible point to the Gulf of Mexico. Such are the connections of the Pennsylvania Central Road at the West. At its
eastern terminus it connects with New York by means of the
N2ew Jersey roads and the Raritan Canal, also with New York,
with Boston, and other New England cities, by regular lines of
propellers, which it directly controls, and which pour into its
depot at Philadelphia immense quantities of freight taken from
under our own eyes, and diverted from our own thoroughfares.
Nor is this all. Few seem to kilow that the Pennsylvania
Road places Philadelphia dn an average more than 100 miles
nearer the commercial cities of the West than is the city of
New York. Philadelphia is nearer by the Pennsylvania Road
than New York is by her roads:
T.o Cleveland, by..                123 miles.
To Chicago, by..     136 miles.
To St. Louis, by...  161 miles.
Td Columlbus, by..190 miles.
To Cincinnati, by..     190 miles.
More still, New York itself is brought nearer to the West
via the Pennsylvania Road, than via the New York Central or
the New York and Erie. New York merchants and Western
shippers save in distance by the Pennsylvania Road, as against
the New York Central or Erie as follows:




6
To Cleveland,                            33 miles.
To Chicago,.46 miles.
To St. Louis,.71 miles.
To Columbus,.100 miles.
To Cincinnati,.100 miles.
As an evidence of the capacities of this road we instance the
fact that its total tonnage in 1858 exceeded by 281,482 tons
that of the New York Central. It increased its through freight
in 1858, as compared with 1857, nearly 50,000 tons, while that of
the New York Central fell off 19,531 tons. We take these facts
from official reports. The cost of the road is over $30,000,000,
contributed jointly by individuals, the city of Philadelphia, and
the State of Pennsylvania-the latter having loaned its credit
to the extent of $7,400,000.  Combining so many natural and
artificial advantages, with the fostering patronage of the State,
favored by State pride, and by the strong ties which identify it
with the life and prosperity of the second city in the Union, a
city of only one-fifth less population than the city of New York,
this road now boldly and confidently strives to wrest from our
own roads their carrying trade, and from New York State and
city their commercial supremacy.  Already do its Directors
assume, and act upon the assumption, of a certain triumph.
In their report for 1858 they officially proclaimed it to be their
settled policy to effect a transfer-of our carrying trade to themselves, and the subversion of the commercial ascendency of
New York city by a like transfer of its business to Philadelphia. We speak from the record.
On page 3 of their report for 1858, they say: " The city of
Philadelphia has expended millions in the completion of internal improvements to draw to her the trade of the West, and
her great work, undertaken for that object, is now finished and
connected with all its principal avenues; yet it is without the
proper means of transferring from cars to vessels the vastly
increasing tonnage anticipated from these connections." On
page 4 they continue: " In the opinion of your Board of Directors, a new impetus would be given to the growth of Philadelphia by the extension of the Pennsylvania Railroad to the
Delaware River, tending more to revive our commerce than
any other measure attainable at so small an outlay. The cost
of transportation to the Delaware River, with the exemption
from city tolls, city teaming, or cartage, would thus be reduced




so much below that to other eastern cities, that vessels would
be drawn to our harbor for their freights; the difference in
favor of Philadelphia over New York or Boston, in the cost of
transportation between the West and shipboard, or vice versa,
would be so apparent that shipowners or foreign merchants
would take advantage qf circumstances so greatly to their
interests.
A merchant receiving flour at both New York and Philadelphia from the same western consignor, and selling it at precisely
the same rate in each city, returns to the consignor a larger per
centage on his Philadelphia than on his New York sales —arising
solely from the cost of transportation in favor of Philadelphia:
consequently, cheap transportation to the river front secures to
her a large trade which otherwise she cannot obtain, and no
doubt vessels will be brought here for the trade thus created.
This advantage will not be left unimproved by those controlling
the commercial interests of our city."  Again, on page 5, they
say: " In conclusion, your Board of Directors are of the opinion
that the Pennsylvania Railroad has not accomplished the object
of its construction until a connection is effected with tide-water
on the Delaware, thus opening an avenue by which every variety of mineral and agricultural production can be conveyed to
a proper point for shipment, and furnishing facilities for the
trade of this city at least equal to those of any location on the
Atlantic coast."
In regard to the advantages enjoyed by New York, furnished
by the Erie Canal and Hudson River, they further say, on page
16: "' The removal or equalization of these advantages must return to it (Philadelphia) a large share of this export trade, bringing with it a corresponding increase in the imports."  The italics in the foregoing extracts are our own.
After these explicit avowals had been thus officially announced, and it was discovered that they had aroused a feeling
of marked uneasiness among the citizens and merchants of New
York, G. W. Cass, Esq., one of the most active and energetic of
the directors of the road, published in the NYew York Times a
communication, dated April 25, 1859, designed to allay apprehension, and to cajole them into the belief that the Pennsylvania Road was as essential to the prosperity of New York as to
that of Philadelphia. We call the particular attention of the




8
reader to the following language quoted from that comimunication:
"That the Pennsylvania Road will contribute to the rapid
growth and commercial development of Philadelphia we claim;
but such a claim is not inconsistent with the fact that the Pennsylvania Road carries a very large amount of the business done
by both New York and Boston with the West. We cannot
state to-day the amount of this tonnage, but of the 263,204,721
pounds of twelve classes carried to Philadelphia, in 1858, paraded so triumphantly by' New York,' in proof of his position,
a large quantity was merely in transitu, when it arrived at
Philadelphia, for New York and New England. And herein is
the explanation of the great prosperity of the Philadelphia (?)
Road; it not only enjoys most of the interior carrying trade of
the city of Philadelphia, but being the shortest and best route
from ~New York City to the greater part of.the West, the Western merchants (who in fact control the route by which four-fifths
of the freights between the East and the West shall be shipped,)
prefer to make their shipments to and from New York over this
route. During a good portion of every year, goods may be carried from New York to Cincinnati and points in that direction,
with but 353 miles of rail (portage) transportation, whereas it is
double that over the New York Central route. In lineal distance, the Pennsylvania Road has more than 100 miles the advantage in all-rail route to the same portion of the West; and
in directness, few seem to be aware of the favorable location of
the Pennsylvania Road as to the City of New York. The New
York Central Road runs on a parallel of latitude about two and
a half degrees north of the City of New York; whereas the
Pennsylvania Road preserves a parallel about one-half degree south of that City. The Pennsylvania Road, then, being
in a geographical position to avail itself, or rather to command,
the carrying trade of Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York, and
Boston, to and from the West, by river, and by the new Western rail connections lately completed, fully accounts for her increased trade in 1858, and is, moreover, a sure promise of still
greater increase in the future, without in any way damaging the
merchants in New York. Such a state of things is not only consistent with, but would be promoted by, the most flattering increase of the business of the City of New York its truest friend




9
could wish. As we have before intimated, it is because tile
Pennsylvania Road carries trade to and from New York in legitimate and successful competition with the Central, and thereby increases her (Pennsylvania Road) receipts, that so much
exercises the New York Central Managers, and not the lesser rate
from Philadelphia to the West."  In a letter dated only two
days later, and addressed to " the Merchants of C1hicago," this
same Director reiterated these views as applicable to that city.
" The trade of Chicago and the business of the Northwestern
roads have the advantage of this less rate from Philadelphia, to
the same extent that other cities and other roads have it. And
we do not believe that there is a single merchant in Chicago or
the Northwest, who buys goods in Philadelphia, that will insist,
when his freight bill is presented to him, that the Freight
Agent has made it out too low, and that he must add to it, to
make the rate equal to what he paid on his New York or Boston
purchases. Nor do we believe that a packer of provisions in
Chicago, who has shipped 1000 barrels of pork to XNew York
at the current rates, will insist, when he goes to ship 1000 kegs
of lard to Philadelphia, that the Freight Agent shall charge
him the New York rates. When the Freight Agent informs the
shipper that the distance to Philadelphia is about 150 miles
less than to New York, and that he can carry his lard at $2 per
ton less to Philadelphia than his meat was carried to _New
York for, who supposes he will indignantly refuse the offer on
the ground that it will injure- the packing business at CMlicago "'
Now, with these premises before us, and the statistical facts
we have given, who does not see that we have in the Pennsylvania Road alone a competitor which threatens the ascendency of our New York roads?
Next in order as a competing route, is the Baltimore and
Ohio Railroad. What the Pennsylvania Road is to Philadelphia, the Baltimore and Ohio Road is to Baltimore. It has its
principal terminus on the Ohio river at Wheeling, 379 miles
from Baltimore, and another at Parkersburgh, about 200 miles
below Pittsburgh, 96 miles below Wheeling, and 383 miles from
Baltimore. Its water connections are the same as those of the
Pennsylvania Road, which we have described. In conjunction
with the Central Ohio. Road at Wheeling, the Marietta and




10
Cincinnati at Parkersburgh, and their affiliated lines, it places
Baltimore in direct rail communication with the valleys of the
Ohio and Mississippi. Baltimore has an advantage over the
City of New York, the latter taking her own roads, of a less
rail distance
To Columbus by'                    250 miles.
To Cincinnati by.298 miles.
Even New York merchants can ship goods by rail to Baltimore, and thence to Cincinnati, vid the Baltimore and Ohio
Road, and save 100 miles in distance, as between that and the
New York Central Road. Alluding to the recent completion
of the Louisville and Nashville Road, the Directors of the Baltimore and Ohio Company, in their annual report just published, say: "The operation of this and other Southern and
Western lines, combired with the superior advantages of Parkersburgh as a port for the great river traffic, and the excellent
location of Baltimore, will enable this company to outflank
their Northern competitors in the contest for the Southwestern
trade."  Coasting steamers are also used by this Company, to
draw trade from New York and New Englond. Our New
York roads, in consequence of these new facilities afforded to
Eastern and Western shippers for transporting merchandise and
produce over the Baltimore and Ohio road, at reduced rates,
have lost largely of the Southwestern trade already, and are,
therefore, forced to conform to the same low rates in order to
retain the business they now have. To show the powerful
agency of these coasting steamers as a means of diverting our
freight over that route, we again quote from the report of the
Directors of that Company. On this point they say: "Since
the opening of the Baltimore and Ohio road to the Ohio
River, and the completion of its Western rail connections, the
large supplies of agricultural products over the route have furnished bases for the profitable employment of numerous steamers which regularly ply between Baltimore and the principal
Northern and Southern cities on the seaboard.
During the contest for the freighting business last Spring,
the New York Central Company demanded from the Southern
lines an equality of rates to common points at the West. To
this, John W. Garrett, Esq., President of the Baltimore and




Ohio Road, responded as follows: "'The New York Central
Company demands that the rates from  New York, Boston,
Philadelphia, and Baltimore to the common centres of the
West and Southwest shall be the same. The illustration of the
case, in connection with the city of Baltimore, will exhibit the
error and absurdity of the principle announced. Cincinnati,
as the leading city of the Ohio valley, has commanded the
most attention in the discussions of the conventions of the four
lines. What are the relative positions of New York and the
New York Central Company, and Baltimore and the Baltimore
and Ohio Company, to that city?  The distance from  New
York via the New York Central Road and the shortest railway
line to Cincinnati, is 880 miles. The distance from Baltimore
and the shortest railway line to Cincinnati, is 582 miles; leaving the difference in favor of Baltimore, 298 miles. It therefore clearly follows that, unless the New York Central Road
concludes to render the service for its entire length without any
remuneration whatever, if the connecting roads of the Baltimore and Ohio Company in Ohio can work at the same ratesas the connections of the New York Central, it must abandon
this demand.
" It has claimed great relative advantages during the season of
river and lake navigation, and economy of working, arising
from low grades, &c. What are the facts? Assume the use of
the Hudson River to Albany, and of the lake from Buffalo to
Cleveland, yet the actual transportation is, viz:
Miles.
On New York Central Railroad,.     298
And from Cleveland to Cincinnati,.        255
Total,.553
Whilst from Baltimore to Parkersburg, on the Ohio
River, 200 miles below Pittsburg, the distance is
but......                        383
Exhibiting the transportation by rail from the City of
New York to be (miles).. 170
in favor of the Baltimore route, using canal or sea from New
York to Baltimore, making the'Baltimore and Ohio line the
cheapest from the City of New York, and proving conclusively
the absolute advantages of the location of Baltimore."  Mr.




12
Garrett then goes on to show that the use of bituminous coal
for fuel, which is supplied in inexhaustible quantities on the
line of the road at a cost of about $1 per ton, enables that
Company to work their motive machinery at an expense materially less per annum than the cost of fuel on the New York
Central. If his statement (which he supports by comparative
figures) be true, then this difference may be annually appropriated to the purposes of competition. While candor requires
us to regard the amount stated by Mr. Garrett as somewhat
exaggerated, there can be no doubt that the advantage derived
from this source constitutes a most formidable element in the
competing capacities of that road. It is, moreover, a perma-:nent and increasing advantage. For as wood becomes more
and more scarce every year, and advances in price, in the same
proportion will the contrast be more marked, and the margin
in favor of the Baltimore and Ohio Company be enlarged.
Now, without lessening their own relative expenditure, they
can use the entire amount they save in this respect to the
injury of the business of their rivals. On the supposition that
their cheap fuel lessens the cost of transportation one or tw6
dollars per ton, they can then offer a premium to that extent to
Eastern and Western shippers.  The Directors, as the previously quoted extract indicates, fully appreciate this element
in the competing capacities of their road, and will, beyond
question, make the most of it.
In 1858, this road increased its through tonnage to within a
fraction of 50,000 tons, which, added to a similar increase on
the Pennsylvania road, equals about one-third of the total
through tonnage on the New York Central for the same year.
No road in the country has a better system of agencies, or a
more active, vigilant, and persevering corps of agents. They
are established in New York, Boston, and other New England
cities, circulate handbills, mingle with our merchants, and bid
temptingly for every pound of fieight. An equally efficient,
but more extensive organization, co-operates with them in the
Western States.
It is proper also to remark that the State of Maryland and
the City of Baltimore have contributed nearly ten of the
$30,000,000 which the road has cost.
With all these circumstances, alliances, and appliances in its




13
favor, it must take a prominent and energetic part for the
future, as it has taken for the past, in the great struggle for the
carrying trade between the East and the West.
A third railway route runs from Norfolk and Richmond to
Louisville, on the Ohio river, to various places on the Tennessee, and to Memphis on the Mississippi.
A fourth route runs from Charleston to all the points last
named.
A Jfth route runs from Savannah to the same points.
All these lines have steamers plying regularly to and from
our Northern ports, and they connect with other steamers on
the Ohio and Mississippi at their western termini. Many local
advantages contribute to their capacities of competition. Their
original cost does not exceed an average of over $30,000 per
mile; and a propitious climate materially lessens their operating expenses, repairs of roadway, &c., compared with our
Northern roads. They are likewise fostered and strengthened
in every possible manner by the legislation of the States
through which they pass. Georgia has even conferred banking
privileges on the Central Georgia Road, which forms a part of
one of these lines. It is authorized to create and issue three
dollars of paper-money to one of its capital.
A sixth line is nearly completed across the Peninsula of
Florida, designed to open a shorter and cheaper communication between the Gulf ports and our Atlantic cities. This
route, by means of the Alabama and Tombigbee rivers, will
draw freight from as high a point as Columbus in the State of
Mississippi. Gulf steamers plying in connection with it will
tap the immense commerce of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers
at New  Orleans. Rail communication from New Orleans is
also open to the mouth of the Ohio, 540 miles, where, by means
of the Illinois Central, it forms a connection with the whole
system of Western and North-western Railways-reaching into
Michigan, Wisconsin, and Iowa. The Mobile and Ohio Railway will soon be finished to the mouth of the Ohio, which will
place Mobile in a relation similar to that of New Orleans. Here
then is another combination which is exerting, and must continue to exert, a powerful influence on the traffic between the
Atlantic and the South-western interior.
A seventh great competitor is the steamship line between




New York and New Orleans. At New York it gathers freight,
by means of confederated lines, from all the New England
States, and at New Orleans from steamers on the Mississippi.
As we have already stated, the improvements in steam-naviga.
tion tend every year to cheapen this mode of transportation
That it is effective in the diversion of trade is evident, from the
bare fact that it thrives and remunerates its proprietors.
An eighth competing element is seen in the numerous sailvessels which interchange commodities between our Northern
and Southern cities. In order to complete their cargoes, they
frequently take freight at prices scarcely above the cost of
handling. Yet to that extent they feed the Southern competing
roads.
It is not generally known, but it is nevertheless true, that
the item of insurance determines the course of freight to a large
extent, and this item operates to the injury of our New York
routes, when shipments are made by rail and water. Lake
insurance is much higher at all seasons than on the Atlantic
coast. Mr. Moran, late President of the New York and Erie
Railroad Company, who has carefully studied the subject in
its bearings on our railway traffic, in a correspondence with
Mr. Garrett, President of the Baltimore and Ohio Company,
an extract from which we take the liberty to copy, states the
case as follows: " Insurance on the Lakes is never less than i
of 1 per cent. in summer, and rises to 1 in September; 1~ in
October, 11 on 1st November, and 2~ after 15th of November;
whereas, on the Atlantic Ocean the insurance is only l of 1 per
cent. in summer, and i to i in winter." F.ccording to this, a
ton of goods delivered at Buffalo after 15th of November, and
worth $1,000, if it be sent from there by water to Chicago,
would pay $25 insurance in addition to cost of portage;
whereas the Pennsylvania Road would transport it from New
York to Chicago at less than the simple Lake insurance)
When the shipper determines to send by rail and water, he
first ascertains the relative cost of insurance, and, if our
Northern roads get the freight, they must make the margin on
their rates of transportation equal to the difference in insurance
-which is equivalent to paying that difference. They are
compelled to meet this difficulty every hour of their daily
transactions during the season of navigation.




This brings us to another important advantage possessed by
the Southern routes. After navigation closes with us it is the
best with them, and so continues till spring. They have both
their short-rail distance, and their rail and water with a light
rate of insurance on the Atlantic. They can, therefore, use
either, as may suit their purpose, while our roads are limited
to an all-rail price. We observe this feature of the subject,
because a change of the current of traffic during the winter
months induces a permanent tendency in the same direction,
and, if you impose legislative restrictions on our carrying
tra_, that tendency will be confirmed and strengthened.
Would that we could stop here! But, unfortunately, we
are assailed with equal vigor by rival thoroughfares on the
north. Boston, the metropolis of New England, in order to carry
on a successful competition against New York, by a more
direct trade with the West, has formed a railroad connection
with Lake Qntario, at Ogdensburgh, and with Montreal on the
St. Lawrence] Over this route are transported the manufactures and merchandise of the Eastern States, and in return they
receive flour and other produce, to feed the operatives employed
in their factories, and to afford supplies for their shipping.
Not long since, the Boston Railroad Journal stated that this
route makes the rates as low from Boston to the West as from
the city of New York; and then adds, that "goods shipped
by this line arrive at Ogdensburgh in forty-five hours, are
immediately put on the Lake propellers, and in three hours
more are on their way to ports on the great Western Lakes.
Property is transhipped only at Ogdensburgh, and there under
great advantages for careful handling and protection."
Further north is that immense thoroughfare known as the
Grand Trunk Railway. With $60,000,000 invested in it by
English capitalists, including the $16,000,000 loaned by the
Canadian Government-virtually without interest; with the
patronage and wealth of Great Britain and her provinces in its
favor; with a continuous track of nearly 1,000'nes from
Portland thrzngh the Canadas to the Upper Lakes  with a
solidity and durability of structure unsurpassed; withn extensive.range of docks at Portland, on which its cars are brought
alongside of ocean steamers Smith an equipage corresponding
to its length and magnitude; ]with exemnption from taxation the




16
entire distance, from its Eastern to its Western terminus,jwith
abundance of cheap fuel at all its stations; and with a system
of rail and water connections at the West leading to all points
of the interior, it presents a capacity for competition unequalled by any other road on the American continent.
As an illustration of its actual operations, we have the fact
that it has carried heavy merchandise the past season from
Boston to Chicago at 22 cents per 100 pounds, and flour from
Chicago to Portland at 30 cents per barrel. The Boston Transcript of Nov. 8 informs us that, for several weeks previous,
the boats of the Grand Trunk Company had delivered at wharf
in that city alone, 1,400 barrels of flour daily, and that its business was rapidly increasing. How many barrels in addition it
may have distributed by railway to other parts of New England, or sent in vessels to Old England, is not stated. It has
even sought the cotton trade, and has transported that staple
from the Mississippi to Boston for $4 per bale. We learn from
the Montreal Herald that it passed over the Victoria Bridge,
eastward, for five days, at the rate of 2,334 barrels of flour
daily. At the same rate for the year, it would move 855,560
barrels, or 20,014 barrels more than the total number transported by the Erie Canal to tidewater in 1857.
As a part of the same great Canadian system is the water
communication with the interior Western States, via the iver,
St. Lawrence and the St. Lawrence and Welland Canals. Ilessels of 500 tons burthen pass through the St. Lawrence Canal,
and will soon pass through the Welland Canal., The capacity
of the latter is already sufficient to permit vessels loaded at
Chicago to sail to Liverpool without breaking bulk. But it is
found more profitable to reship at Montreal or Quebec, by
means of iron sail vessels and propellers, which now make regular trips to and from England. These have been adopted
because grain transported in them is less liable to damage from
heat. They are supplied with cargoes by sail vessels from the
Great Lakes, byt e Collingwood rail route, which runs from
Georgian Bay, on Lake Huron, to Toronto,. and the Grand
Trunk Railway, from the latter place, to Montreal The navigable water line, extending from the Atlantic through Canada
to the very heart of our Continent, is not less than 2,500 miles.
Montreal receives at her docks vessels of 2,000 tons burthen




laden with goods for the interior. Toronto, 333 miles west of
Montreal, and on a longitude west of Buffalo, is nearer to Liverpool than is the City of New York! Possessing these enornous water and rail facilities, and measuring distance by the
cost of transportation, the merchants of Great Britain are practically as near to the great West as our New York merchants.
We have good authority for the statement that flour has been
taken from Chicago through the'Canadas to Liverpool at a le88ss
price per barrel than is exacted by our own thoroughfares from
Chicago to New York.
At the present writing the tariff of the Grand Trunk Railway
affords lower rates on shipments from Liverpool to our Western
cities than the New York Central tariff does from the City of
New York to the same points!
The following is a verbatim copy of one of the public handbills issued by the Grand Trunk Company, and will tell its own
story:' GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY OF CANADA AND MONTREAL OCEAN
STEAMSHIP COMPANY.-NeW carrying route from England to the
United States! Only two transhipments between Liverpool
and Chicago, Cincinnati, or St. Louis. One contract throughout. The Grand Trunk Railway will be open from Portland,
in Maine, to Detroit, in Michigan, in November next; which,
in connection with the Montreal Ocean Line of steamships to
Quebec, in Summer, and Portland, in Winter, will form the
cheapest, most direct, and expeditious route from Liverpool to
the Western States of America. The Agents in Liverpool are
prepared to grant through contracts upon the terms, and to the
places named below; which include wharfage, customs, bonding, and all charges except marine insurance.
Goods to the above places will go through in Bond.
To prevent delay, merchants are particularly requested to
forward bills of lading and invoices of value by mail, prepaid,
direct to the Agent of the Grand Trunk Railway, Portland,
Maine; in order that the Customs' regulations may be complied
with immediately on arrival of the goods.
Early notice of Summer rates of freight will be given.
During Winter the steamships will sail from Liverpool and
Portland not less than once a fortnight.
2




18
Rates of freight for consignments of not less thcan twenty
cubic feet, or 1000 pounds, vid Portland, from November,
1859, to April, 1860:
Crockery,
Hardware in Tin, Zinc, Iron, in bars,
Dry Goods, casks and   Steel and  sheets, and
From Liverpool to        per 40 cubic cases, per  Chain, per  plates, per
feet.    2,000 lbs.  2,000 lbs.  2,000 lb&
Stg. $ c. Stg. $ c. Stg. $ c. Stg.    o.
Detroit, Mich................. 90s 21 90 110s. 126 76 75s. 18 25 65. 15 82
Ohicago, Ill...................... 00s. 24 33 120s 29 201 85s 20 69 89s. 19 47
Quincy, Ill.............1. 15s 27 98 140s  34 07 1100s. 24 33 95s. 23 12
Galena, Ill................... 120s 29120 145s. 35 29 110s. 26 76 105s. 25 55
Milwaukie, Wis................ 105s. 25 55 125s. 30 421 90s. 21 90 85s. 20 69
Burlington, Iowa................. 115s. 27 98 140s 34 07 1 00s.s 24 33 95s 23 12
Dubuque, Iowa................... 120s. 29 20 145s. 35 2911 10. 26 76 105S. 25 55
Cincinnati, Ohio................. 10 0 s. 24 33 120s   29 20 85s. 20 69 80s. 19 47
St. Louis, Mo.................... 110s. 26 76 135s. 32 85 95s. 23 12 90s. 21 90
Produce conveyed to Liverpool on very reasonable terms.
For rates and other information, apply to
GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY,
Office, No. 21 Old Broad street, London.
MONTGOMERIE & GREENHORNE,.Montreal Ocean Steamship  Company's Office, L0ondon.
ALLAN BROTHERS & CO.,
Weaver Buildings, Brunswick street, Liverpool.
JAMES & ALEXANDER ALLAN,
No. 54 St. E.noch square, Glasgow.
J. S. MILLAR,
Agent Grand Trunk Railway, Portland, Mlaine.
T. D. HALL,
Agent Grand Trunk Railway, Detroit, Michigan.
JAS. WARRACK, Western Agent,.No. 74 Dearborn street, Chicago, Illinois.
C. R. CHRISTIE,
Superintendent of Western Division, Toronto, C. w.
EDMONDSTONE, ALLAN & CO., Agents,
Montreal Ocean Steamsohip Company,
Portland, lMaine, and.Montreal, C. E.
M. PENNINGTON, Freight Manager,
Grand  Trunk  Railway  Conpany,  eJontreal,   r E.
OcT. 7, 1859.




19
ZBy comparing the above tariff of the Grand Trunk Company
with the tariff of the New York Central, it will be seen that
the rates from Liverpool are LESS per ton of 2,000 lbs. than
from
New York City to Detroit by             $2 10 per ton
To Chicago by.                          7 67  "
To Quincey by.                           7 02  "
To Gallena by.10 00 "
To Milwaukee by.6 45 "
To Dubuque by.                          11 00  "
To Cincinnati by                          5 67  "
To St. Louis by.                          9 24 "
Though these low rates may appear unremnunerative, our
roads are, nevertheless, compelled to contend against them, and,
in the judgment of the writer, the contest must continue.
Those who have carefully studied the commercial policy of
England well know her far-reaching grasp. She procured the
construction of this road not simply nor primarily for the profit
which it was expected to yield to its stockholders, but with a
view to open a direct trade with our Western interior cities,
and thus to turn into the pockets of her own manufacturers,
mercllhants, and bankers the profits and commissions now
received by the factors of oiur Atlantic cities. )Our people
will ere long awake to a realization of the fact hat, in one
vastly important sense, the Grand Trunk Line does not terminate, nor was it intended to terminate, at Portland, but reaches
across the ocean, to Liverpool, Glasgow, Sheffield, Manchester,i
Birmingham, and London. Contracts for the transportation oft
British manufactures and merchandise will include the Oceaar
and the Grand Trunk Railway, with its Western connections
and a return of the products of the West by the same line.
This is the English idea of that mammoth undertaking. % Whet
that idea shall be more extensively developed in practice,
orders for goods fiomr Western wholesale merchants will go
directly to England instead of New York, and consignments
will be made by English merchants to their Western agents
If by this means Great Britain can make a wider margin of
profit in favor of her own manufacturers as against those of
ours, in favor of the merchandise she buys of other nations to
sell to us, and in favor of her own purchasers of our produce,




20
of which she is the chief foreign consumer, then the prize will
amply compensate for the expenditure.
We are therefore destined to grapple with this giant competitor in a struggle from which there is no escape. Possibly the
interposition of Congress might aid us, but in the absence of
such interposition, and with our own Legislature against us, it
requires no prophet to predict the result. Our internal traffic,
too, is seriously menaced. Southwestern and Western New
York have been tapped by the Williamsport and Elmira
Road, which places Elmira only two miles further from Plliladelphia than it is to New York, over the New York and Erie,
and twenty-one miles nearer to Baltimore. Binghamton, vid
the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western and the New Jersey
Central Roads, is seven miles nearer to New York than vid the
New York and Erie, and commands by railway a favorable
position with respect to Philadelphia and Baltimore. On the
north, all that portion of the State bordering on Lake Ontario,
on the St. Lawrence, Lake Champlain, and east of the Hudson
River, is likewise contested by the routes leading to Boston and
Portland.
Already a number of our railroads, after struggling against
the influences of adverse competition, have been driven to
bankruptcy. When the New. York and Erie was built the
then position of affairs more than justified the wisdom of its
projectors. It was no fault of theirs that they were not gifted
with foreknowledge. If the same state of things had continued
which then existed, and no other antagonistic thoroughfares
had sprung up outside of our State, who does not believe that
the New York and Erie would have been to-day a prosperous
and paying road?  It shows how. the rapidity of progress
baffles the calculations and forecast of our wisest men. Rip
Van Winkle, after awaking from his twenty years' sleep, and
noting the changes which had occurred, exclaimed, "Everything is changed, and I am changed; I can't tell what's my
name or who I am!" We are equally bewildered by the
events of a single year. A map of our country made to-day
becomes obsolete to-morrow. No less'remarkable are the tendencies of commerce. Enterprise waves her magic wand over
other States besides the State of New York, and every touch
of that wand, like the rod which smote the rock, opens a new
current of trade.




21
What have been the effects upon us? a In what position commercially are we placed? South of us, as we have shown, no
less than eight great rivals have tapped and are diverting the
flow of our commerce. All the Atlantic States from New Jersey to Florida'bring to bear their legislation, the sympathies
and patronage of their people, the energies of their cities, the
wealth of their capitalists and every other possible influence to
attain the same end, and the States of the southwest co-operate.
The Lake States, and even those of the northwest, have become
neutral. Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont join with the
great Northern lines, while Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and
Connecticut are neutral. The Canadas, aided by the mother
country, are hostile. From the moment we step across our
own boundaries every inch of ground east, west, north, and
south is contested. We have no allies outside of our boundaries, and are obliged to contend for even our internal
traffic.
Yet, in these circumstances, our own Legislqture are called
upon to turn against us. In' the face of the plain, palpable,
stubborn facts presented, it is demanded that our assembled
representatives shall erect an immense toll-gate across the
breadth of the Empire State, or what is worse, enact the " Pro
Rata Freight bill," either of which measures would effectually
exclude from us and throw into the hands of our rivals, the
benefits of our railway traffic.  Should they do an act so suicidal, let no more be said of the great imperial wall which
encircles China, or the policy  which dictated its erection.
Here let us contemplate the bearings of this outside competition on the City of New York. Hitherto that City has been
the chief factor both of our foreign and internal trade. For a
long time she monopolized the only avenue of cheap transportation to and from the West. Before the completion of the
Erie Canal, Philadelphia took the precedence. After the opening of the Canal a new impetus was given to the growth of
New York, and she became what she is. But now Philadelphia possesses facilities of communication with the interior in
some respects superior to New York. By the Pennsylvania
road, as previously shown, she is nearer than New York is vid
the Central.




22
To Cleveland, by.123 miles.
To Chicago, by.136 "
To St. Louis, by.161
To Columbus, by.             189
To Cincinnati, by..                    189 "
By rail and water her relations with the interior commercial
centres are no less favorable. Within thirty hours from the
sounding of the signal whistle in her depot, steatners on the
Ohio River receive and bear away the goods of her merchants.
It will be seen that the Pennsylvania Road can carry freight
by rail from Philadelphia to Cincinnati at a rate below that
from New York by the New York roads, which will equal the
cost of transportation on 189 miles. So to Cleveland, Columbus, Chicago, St. Louis, and other points, according to their
relative proximity.  Who reap the benefits?  Chiefly the Philadelphia merchants.  To prevent this, and to maintain an
equality for New York City, the only course left for the New
York lines is to lose the transportation on the excess of distance.
Now if; in addition to the loss of 189 miles of transportation to
Cincinnati, the same to Columbus, 123 to Cleveland, 136 to
Chicago, and 161 to St. Louis, you force our roads to adopt a
still higher scale of rates, how is it possible for them to retain
the business or preserve the ascendency of New York?  Unless, therefore, they be left untrammelled and firee, New York
must submit to a serious diversion of her trade. Can that
great heart of commerce continue its vigorous pulsations while
the veins and arteries which lead to it are tapped and drained?
Will not the entire Empire State participate in the loss? Her
supremacy is essential even to the canals, but it cannot be
secured so long as her merchants have to contend against lesser
rates to Philadelphia. It may be said that she is not in danger
because the Southern routes place her also much nearer to the
West than she is by her own routes. Very well; in that case
her commerce will pass over those routes instead of ours. They
gain it; we lose it. But, should New York transact her business with the Western centres through Philadelphia, then, too,
she must lose on every shipment to or received from them, the
cost of transportation over the 90 miles between the two cities.
Besides, will it add to the prosperity of New York to subject
her to the necessity and humiliation of paying tribute to her




23
g'reat rival as the carrier of her commerce? Would she be
likely to receive justice from  a State whose legislation is
adverse, and from a city whose interests are really and avowedly antagonistic to hers a to a city which aspires to supplant
her as the commercial metropolis? a city whose continual
policy is to wrest fiom her her importing and exporting, as
well as her inland trade? Baltimore, the next great Southern
rival of New York, is 298 miles nearer to Cincinnati by rail,
and possesses numerous advantages in competing to that point.
We have shown that the policy of England in building her
canals from Lake Erie to the St. Lawrence, and the Grand Trunk
Railway from Detroit to Portland, aims a fatal blow at the
commerce of New York.  Is it of no account that these
thoroughfares transport freight from Liverpool to the Western
cities at an. average of $7 per ton less than the cost from  New
York to the same potns! Is it of no consequence to the citizens of New York that Great Britain has opened the contest
for a direct trade with the West by the active employment of
seven monster steamers to run in connection with the Grand
Trunk Railwav at Portland and her inland water routes at
Qtlebec? When she offers to the farmers and merchants of the
West a cheaper transportation to and fiom Liverpool than they
have to and from the City of New York, is it possible for the
latter to retain her trade unless her own railways come to her
rescue?  New York, therefore, the moment her own roads are
compelled by legislative restrictions to relinquish their through
traffic, has tremendous odds against her. Will our Legislature
subject her to the unequal contest? Commerce is'the life of
cities, the soul of their prosperity. God forbid that ill-advised
legislation should stifle that life in the Empire City of the Empire State.
We should not overlook the fact that railroads everywhere
are developing an astonishing ability to move freight. Senator
Prosser, of Buffalo, one of the staunchest advocates of the
" Pro Rata bill," and an old canal forwarder, expressed the
opinion before the Utica Convention, that the railroads have
the ability to transport freight at lower rates than the Canal.
We quote fiom his speech on that occasion the following
remarkable words:
" It is the ability of the railroads to work cheap which I fear.




24
Not but that they have often taken property at less than cost;
that is undoubtedly so; but they have the ability to do the
work extremely low in warln weather. The calculation that so
great a loss accrues to railroads on the transportation of flour,
&c., is a mistake. Those who are conversant with this busi'ness,
who come to different conclusions, do so because they take the
whole number of tons carried, and estimate the cost of all
through freight the same. This is wrong. The stock trade
being only one way, is more expensive than that in which the
cars are loaded both ways. *Freight of the latter class in Summer can be carried very cheaply on a well-balanced rail. If
we make the estimate correctly, we shall find that the cost
comes down to prices startlingly low. Deduct from these prices
the cost of the Winter amount, and we arrive, in my judgment,
at an ability to move enormous quantities at a cost of not over
$3, from Buffalo to New York.:Now, sir, I come to inquire if
we have this ability in our public works? Have we got the
ability to move property from Buffalo to New York at the low
rate of $3 per ton? No, sir, we have not got it."
Assuming that gentleman's opinion to be correct, we desire
to ask him a few simple questions. Have not the railroads out
of the State-some of them having much shorter distances and
cheaper fuel in their favor-the same ability to carry freight at
low rates as those within the State? And if, by your legislation, you force high rates upon our railroads, pray tell us is
there any earthly reason to doubt that our carrying trade will
be transferred to these thoroughfares?
Those who advocate these legislative restrictions are not
agreed, as to the plan to be adopted. LAlarge party insist on
ihe enactment of the "Pro-Rata" freight bill of 185A  They
allege, in support of this measure, that our railroads make
exorbitant discriminations against the citizens of our own State;
that the rates on local being much higher than they are on
through freights, have the effect to depreciate the value of our
farming lands, and to enhance the value of Western lands.
Suppose they;o charge higher on local than on through
freights?  What then? Will the remedy proposed relieve our
farmers from Western competition? Were the Legislature to
enact a prohibitory law-a law absolutely restraining our roads
from carrying through freights, it would not change the relative




25
pdsitions of the farmers of the State of ZNew York with respect
to those of the West, except to the still greater injury of the
former. Western produce would still find the same cheap and
rapid transit to the seaboard by other outlets. No law whatever, unless it were to bring within its scope the railways of
the South and North, the Canadian canals, the Ohio and Mississippi rivers, and the Atlantic, could by any possibility benefit our farmers or relieve them from competition with the cheap
lands of the West. Our relative conditions in this respect are
fixed and governed by a " higher law" than any the Legislature can enact.
But what are the facts in regard to the alleged discrinlinations? The record will show that our people pay to our railroads less per ton, per mile, on rail transportation within their
own State than the people of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan or Illinois-pay their railroads for the same service. Our local tariffs
will exhibit a favorable comparison with those of any State in
the Union. Whenever this statement shall be contradicted by
the leading advocates of restrictive measures, it will be time to
furnish the data for a just comparison. For the present we
shall move one step further, and affirm and prove that the railroads of the West have established as wide, if not wider, discriminations between their local and through tariffs.
Take the following examples:
OHIO AND MISSISSIPPI RAILROAD.
From Cincinnati to St. Louis, 342 miles, the local tariff is
higher than the throughBy $4 80 per ton on first class.
By $5 40 per ton on second class.
By) $6 00 per ton on third class.
By $1 80 per ton on fourth class.
This gives an average of $5 25 per ton more on local for the
samne number of miles.
From Cincinnati to Trenton, though the distance is 31 miles
less, the average local is $5 75 per ton more than the through
rate.
CLEVELAND, COLUMBUS AND CINCINNATI RAILROAD.
From Cleveland to Columbus, 135 miles, the average local is
$2 32 above the through rate.




26
From Cleveland to Delaware, 113 miles, the average local is
$1 60 above the through rate.
SANDUSKY, DAYTON AND CINCINNATI RAILROAD.
From Sandusky to Dayton, 154 miles, the local is $2 25 above
the through rate.
MICHIGAN SOUTHERN AND NORTHERN INDIANA RAILROAD.
From Toledo to Chicago, 243 miles, the average local is $2 90
per ton above the through rate.
From Toledo to White Pigeon the average local, though the
distance is 119 miles slhorter, is $2 50 per ton above the through
rate.
MICHIGAN CENTRAL RAILROAD.
From Detroit to Kalamazoo, 143 miles, the average local is
$2 65 per ton above the through price on 283 miles.
ILLINOIS CENTRAL RAILROAD.
From Chicago to Mattoon, 172 miles, the local average is 55
cents per ton greater than the through rate to Cairo, 365 miles.
The Pennsylvania road, the Baltimore and Ohio, the Grand
Trunk Railway, and other competitors, discriminate far more
against their local than our New York roads do. We might
multiply illustrations to any extent, showing similar results.
Now, while like discriminations exist in the Western States,
and while the farmers on the lines of those roads are subject to
them in sending their produce to the central points where it is
collected for shipment to the sea-board, how can it be shown
that they possess in this respect any relative advantage? Do
the Western farmers all live in Cincinnati, or Chicago, or
Detroit? Then do not the discriminations to which they are
subject fairly offset similar discriminations in the State of New
York. Carry out the principle of the pro rata scheme, and
relieve the Western farmers also by applying it to their roads as
well a Will that improve the condition of the farmers of New
York? Have they contemplated the retroactive consequences
they will bring upton themselves by a practical application of
this doctrine to the Railroads of the Great West?
Nor is it a sufficient answer to our reasoning to say that the




27
rates from the central points to the seaboard are disproportionately low. It proves too much. For the Erie Canal holds the
same relation that our railroads do to those central points. Canal
forwarders enjoy precisely the same advantages on the Lakes,
and form the same alliances with the canals and railroads leading westward from the Lakes. In 1858 they had better contracts with the two Michigan roads than the New York Central.
had. Hence, if the low through rates on our railroads damage
our farmers, much more are they injured by the canals. Besides,
the canal forwarders have always adopted large discriminations
against local and in favor of tllrough freights. They carry from
Buffalo to New York cheaper than from Brockport or Medina,
and from New York to Buffalo cheaper than from New York
to Utica. Every locality on the line pays as large differences
to the canal forwarders as are paid to the railroads. If, therefore, the argument be sound that the low through rates depreciate the value of our farming property, all of three-fourtls of
the depreciation must be attributed to the canals; for, accordihg to a statement of Canal Commissioner Ruggles, they carry
more than three-fourths of the total tonnage! Will the advocates of the pro rata measure apply its provisions likewise to
the transportation companies on the canals? Why not? Unless
they do so, how are our farmers to be relieved from the alleged
oppressive inequality?  What do they gain? We need go no
further for the causes which operate to the disadvantage of our
farmers than the cheapness, easiness of culture, and superior
fertility of the Western lands.
The process of equalization is at work, and no legislation
under Heaven can arrest it, least of all the pro rata scheme.
At the several so-called " Canal Conventions " held within the
past year, a mass of statistics was presented to show that the
New York and Erie and Central Roads had made ruinous discriminations against our own people, and in favor of the farmirs
of the West. To those who are familiar with the railroad
freighting business the absurdity of these statistics will be at
once apparent. To those who are not familiar with the details
of such matters we would say that the pretended facts are not
correctly given, and also that two radical fallacies underlie them
all. First-Instead of comparing the act4al proportions on
through freights received by our roads with their local tariffs,




28
these skilfill reasoners take the entire through rates to the West,
and compare them with the local. Whereas most of the alleged
discriminations were caused, not by our roads, but by other connecting lines. Its second fallacy is seen in the fact that the
through rates by rail and water are compared with our local
all-rail rates, as if both rates were all-rail. The two fallacies
here exposed are fatal to the correctness of their assumed premises, and equally so to their conclusions. No comparison can be
just or trustworthy which rests on bases so glaringly fallacious.
It is simply idle to suppose that our railways would voluntarily adopt the present rates were it possible to obtain higher.
Self-interest precludes the idea. They are forced to submit or
abandon the business. The obvious design of the "pro rata"
scheme is to place the roads in a position where, in order to
preserve their local prices, they will be forced to adopt a proportionate scale on -through freights. Its projectors hope by
this course to transfer the through business to the canals. They
know perfectly well that with the new scale of high rates the
roads cannot possibly retain it.
We agree with them that the effect would inevitably be to
deprive our roads of the business. But then comes the question,
and a question, too, of momentous significance to the people of
the State of New York, where and to what cblannels of transport will it be transferred?  To the New York canals? or to
rival thoroughfares outside of the State?  To the latter beyond
the possibility of doubt. Has it ever occurred to the advocates
of the proposed law that all perishable articles, all the lighter
and more costly goods, which require rapidity of transit, and
which constitute what are denominated first and second class,
and also the entire live-stock trade, never seek the canals!
The live-stock trade and the trade in dressed hogs pay to the
New  York roads over $2,000,000 per annum. Competing
roads desire all these classes of freight, and it is simply a question whether they shall have them  or we. While the canals
will not gain them our roads will lose them.  Other roads will
transfer this traffic to themselves, other cities will reap the
profits, and the people of other States will receive the contingent disbursements pertaining to the process of transportation.
His Excellency Gov. Morgan, with a significant silence,
ignores the pro rata scheme in his recent Message, but endorses
and recommends the policy of imposing tolls.




29
We have watched the Governor's course too closely to qnestion his patriotism, or to doubt for an instant the purity of his
intentions; but, with all due respect, we express the belief that,
should this hazardous experiment be triedf it will bring upon
our noble State a series of calamities from which neither lhe nor
we will ever live to witness a recovery. Commerce, like persons, will bear burdens which it cannot shirk; but at no period
of the world's history' has it ever voluntarily submitted itself to
any burden whatever. It is the only thing in America which
really knows no North, no South, no East, and no West. It
goes where it finds the cheapest pathways, without regard to
latitudes and longitudes or the boundaries of States. Toll-gates
are institutions from which it instinctively recoils, and it will
never patronize where it is possible to elude them. Does the
existing situation of our carrying trade warrant the erection of
these gates across the railways of the State of New York?
Will they invite outside commerce? Will they preserve our
internal commerce?
Our respected Auditor of the Canal Department, in his Annual Report for 1858, argues that "the imposition of canal
rates of toll on the New York lines would not cause any diversion of trade from our own lines of railroads, or from our own
commercial metropolis." To support his position he gives the
following as the comparative rates of transportation from three
of the seaboard cities to the West in 1858:
COST PER TON FROM
Baltimore to Chicago.$23 07
Philadelphia to Chicago.20 16
New York to Chicago, by New York and Erie Railroad 13 38
New York to Chicago, by New York Central Railroad 10 82
New York to Chicago, by Canals, &c...    7 12
Because the costs per ton, as he alleges, were higher in 1858
from Baltimore and Philadelphia to Chicago, than he says they
were from New York, he argues that the imposition of tolls will
not divert our trade.
Mr. Benton is extremely unfortunate in his statement of facts.
Take the first item above as an example. We have in our possession, and can show to Mr. Benton, one of the original handbills
of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company, which were generally posted about New York in August, 1858, wherein they soli



30
cited freight from New York to Chicago by steamer and railroad,
and offered to carry, first class, $10 per ton; second class, $8
per ton. Here, then, the fact turns out to be that the Baltimore
and Ohio Railroad Company actually took freight from New
York to Chicago at an average of more than $1 per ton less
than the price Mr. Benton gives as the rate on the New York
Central, and at $14 per ton less than the rate given by him from
Baltimore to Chicago?  Had Mr. Benton taken the trouble,
he could easily have ascertained that it has been and still is
the settled policy of the Baltimore and Ohio Company to make
much lower rates from Baltimore to common points of the West
than from New York.  _y the terms of the notorious St. Nicholas Compact, the comparative rates were, by all rail:
FROM BALTIMORE TO
Cincinnati..  30   25   17   15   15 )
Columbus..   30   25   20   15   15 I
Cleveland...  5    0    5    5    5  Lessthan from
Indianapolis... 30   25   20   15   15   New York.
Chicago.... 20   15   10   10   10
St. Louis... 30   25   20   15   15
A similar scale existed in favor of Baltimore by rail and water. So with the Pennsylvania road. The New York merchants were alarmed by these low rates from Baltimore and
Philadelphia, and appealed by earnest memorials to the Presisidents of the New York Central and New York and Erie
Companies. to afford them  relief.  What relief could they
afford?  There was but one remedy, and that was to meet
their antagonists by a corresponding reduction. It became
with our roads a matter of necessity. They had to abandon
the merchants of our great City to the mercy of their opponents, to a continued drain upon their trade, and suffer an equal
loss to their own traffic and that of the State, or else equalize
the cost of transportation by placing New York on a par with
her rivals. This state of affairs still exists, and must exist.
The operations of the Grand Trunk Railway, which the Auditor does not notice in his report, add immensely to the antagonismn brought to bear against our New York roads, and
against our commercial metropolis. Mr. Benton has been led
into similar errors respecting the rates from Philadelphia. Yet
it is from such fallacious statistics the advocates of restrictive




31
measures deduce the conclusion that, if enacted, they would
not operate injuriously upon our general trade.
But why did not Mr. Benton allude to tile practical workings of this measure on our internal traffic? He does not explain to us how he expects property will go from Elmira to
New York, over the New York and Erie, and pay tolls on 273
miles of railway, while it can reach Philadelphia, which is only
two miles further, and Baltimore, which is twenty-one miles
nearer, and pay no tolls at all. He does not allude to the
fact that produce from  Suspension Bridge to Philadelphia,
via the Williamsport and Elmira road, would pay tolls on
171 miles in the State of New York; whereas, if it took our
own roads from Buffalo, it would pay on 300 miles; nor does he
tell us whether it would naturally choose the more costly or less
costly route. He does not ir),frm the people that from Buffalo
to Philadelphia, vid the Williamsport and Elmira road, it
would save over 150 miles of tolls, which it would be compelled
to pay if it were to take our own roads. Indeed, every town
in the southern tier of counties, most of the towns in the central counties, and all of the northern towns and counties, will
find it to their interests, in order to save tolls, to ship to rival
seaboard cities rather than to New York, whenever the markets
are equal, and even when they ship to New York, they will take
the outside routes that intersect the southern part of the State.
For similar reasons a large portion of Western produce
would avoid Buffalo and Rochester, and strike the State at
Oswego or Cape Vincent, and shipments from New York to
the West would turn off at the same points. We believe that
practical experience will demonstrate that the effect of tolling
our roads will be to materially diminish the traffic of the State
both in local and through freights. Were it not for the permanent loss which must result to the City and State, we would
not say a word against a trial of this experiment. We knlow
that the clamor for repeal, within twTelve months, would be a
thousandfold more loud and potent than that which now calls
for restriction. But we also know that when trade once passes
under the control of rival interests, rival localities, and rival associations, all act upon it like so many magnets, and it cannot
again be recovered except at a vast sacrifice and at a vast expense.
One of the last acts of that quiet, unassuming, noble man,




32
the late Isaac Newton-a man who was thoroughly conversant
with these matters, was to appear before a Committee of the
Senate, and utter his solemn protest against this ruinous policy.
More than eighteen hundred years ago, He who comprehended the blindness of mankind proclaimed that though one
were to rise froim the dead and bear witness to the truth, yet it
would not be believed. It may be so in the case before us; but,
nevertheless, that voice from the dead shall be heard, and its
eloquent warnings be repeated, though they may not be heeded.
Said Mr. Newton: "I affirm that instead of the New York
and Erie and New York Central Railroad taking business from,
they give business to the canals, by keeping the traffic of the
West in this channel, by opening and cheapening the modes of
transportation between the Lakes and the City of New York.
*    *    *    *    *    *   ZBut, Mr. Chairman, I feel an
interest in this subject beyond dollars and cents. If you impose these tolls one of two things must take place. The railroads must either, in order -to retain the trade, carry freight at
prices that will ruin them, or charging a price that will enable
them to live, the property will seek other routes. Every hoof;
horn, and bushel mulst go by other routes if tolls are imposed
upon the goods of this State. By so doing you may get a few
dollars out of commerce, but the effects-the throwing of trade
out of the State-will not be arrested in years. Your people
will be impoverished and your treasury without funds. The
world is not asleep. The railroads we have now are but a
moiety of the railroads we will have in a few years. The object
is to keep the control of the commerce until the great work, in
which we all have so just a pride-the canals-are finished."
If the people of the City and State of New York could
appreciate all the facts and considerations which bear upon
this great issue, we would not fea'r the result. They would see,
what must be evident to every reflecting mind, that this is not
a question between our canals and railroads, but between all
the thoroughfares of our State and those of other States. With
the watchwords, "Freedom to our railroads and an enlarged
canal," and the adoption of a corresponding policy, we may
still retain our position as the Emtire State, and our City will
continue to be the Empire City. Herein is our only hope and
our only safety.
NEW YORK.




'Read and Circulate.
STATE OF NEW YORK,
IN ASSEMBLY, JANUARY, 1860.
PRO RATA SELECT COMMITTEE.
Proceedings before the Committee, and proofs and
arguments offered against the Pro Rata measure,
fraught with so much injury to the People, to
the commerce and business of the State, and to
the Railroads themselves.
WEDNESDAY, Jan. 25th, 1860.  per mile. I will assume that the naked cost for
The Special Committee met at 9 o'clock.   carrying was one cent per ton per mile. In that
PRESENT-Mr. FLAGLER, Chairman, and Messrs. Va- case, our profits would be three-quarters of a
rian, Conkling, Emerick, Smith, Fnlton and Moulton.  cent per ton per mile. The gross amount of this
The chairman announced that the committee three-quarters of a cent per ton per mile, would
was ready to hear additional statements.    make this problem complete by adding on way
Mr. SETH C. HAWLEY said: I wish to make freights a price that would bring us an equal
an explanation of one item of the proof that was sum. That is to say, so much money as was
put in yesterday, lest it should be misunderstood, profit on the through freight we would be enand mislead somebody as to our design in refer- titled to on the way freight, tQo get the same
ence to it. I refer to the figures that were given amount of earnings if we tarried through
to show the amount of the through freight and freight.
way freight, and the revenue of each, and the    Mr. A. STONE, Jr., of Cleveland, Ohio, was
amount per ton per mile on each. The problem  then introduced as a witness, Mr. M. F. Seymour
I stated, was what it would cost per ton on way conducting the examination.
freight, provided the railroad company made up    Q. State your place of residence and your
the amount of receipts on both, by increasing business?
the rate of way freight. The figures which you   A. I reside at Cleveland, Ohio, and am Presihave are correct, except the rate per ton on the dent of the Cleveland & Erie Railroad Company;
way freight, which should be $2.66, instead of the Cleveland, Painsville and Ashtabula Road is
$2.27; and before increasing the way rate, we the corporate name; it runs from Cleveland to
should deduct from the gross amount received Erie.
on the through freight the amount that it cost to   Q. How long have you resided in Cleveland?
carry it, leaving the profit on the through freight   A. Ten years.
to be added to the way freight, to make up from    Q. What has been your business for the last
the way freight an equal revenue. The receipts ten years in-the State of Ohio?
on the through freight were $8,325,055. The   A. Building and operating railroads.
problem of exactly how much of the receipts   Q. On what particular line?
are profits, is one that has not been proven to the   A. From Cleveland to Columbus; I went there
satisfaction of everybody on any road. The as contractor for that line, and have been a
best that can be done is to make approximate  director since its completion; I was a contractor
estimates sufficient for the purposes of business. on the Cleveland & Erie road.
Nobody will ask that we show positively the   Q. You are now the president of the road you
amount of profit for carrying a specific quantity  name?
a specific distance. I will suppose a case: we   A. Yes sir.
show that our through freights producV an aver-   Q. Befo;e going to Cleveland, were you conage of one and three-quarters of a cent per ton  nected with the construction of railways?




2
A. I was.                                  so directly with these for through freight at
Q. In what way?                           Cleveland, as it does for the west?
A. In the construction of different parts me-   A. It does not when navigation is open. It
chanically, and other parts, in the construction only competes by striking some tributaries at
and operating; I was engaged in operating the places west of us.
road in 1845, between Springfield and New    Q. What are these tributaries further west?Haven.                                       Cincinnati, Cleveland, Chicago.
Q. The people of the State of New York, or a   A. At Columbus is the furtherest point where
portion of the people, are petitioning the legisla- they have been felt. They strike Columbus and
ture to pass a law to contain the following gene- they compete with all the other thoroughfares
ral provisions: [Mr. Seymour then read the pro- north and west of Columbus.
visions]. Will you please state in your own way - Q. State any other fact you think pertinent
the effect which you think the passage of that in connection with that branch of the subject?
law would have upon the railroad interests of   A. I can only say that the present policy of
this state and the carrying trade from the west advancing on freights at the present rates, if it
to the East?                                 can be carried out in the manner which the
A. There was a law introduced, or rather pro- Grand Trunk has taken, is such that no other
prosed, in Ohio, in 1852 and 1853, with similar line, embarrassed or unembarrassed, can carry
provisions; it was then regarded as impractic- property at a profit from the points they reach.
able; it did not pass the legislature; after it was They have made prices so low that no oth xline
fully discussed, I thought it would be impractic- can take freight if it is to be continued. [.hey
able to put such a law in force, particularly upo   have commenced advancing money on freights
through freights, as there are at least five tho-  ransportedcLy them through to the Atlantic cities
roughfares from our place, Cleveland and the and Englandl  They have made rates at less
Atlantic, and the least embarrassment in trade than one cent per ton per mile, and have taken
over any one would tend to throw the trade on large quantities of freights atthese rates.
the other lines.                               Q. Do you know of their having contracted
Q. What are the principal competing lines for freight to Liverpool?
from Cleveland to the eastern markets?        A. I saw their tariff distributed over the west,
A. The Baltimore and Ohio.                 giving the rates from all the prominent points to
Q. Can you give the distance by it from  Liverpool and London; and I have heard that
Cleveland to New York?                       contracts have been made according to those
A. Over the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, from  tariffs. It is undoubtedly the case that contracts
Cleveland, I think, by rail, is about 500 miles.   have been made, and are being made daily, at
Q. From Cleveland to Baltimore?            those rates, from those points to Liverpool and
A. Yes sir; to Philadelphia is about the same; London.
there are two routes from Cleveland, and there   Q. Suppose the railroads of this state, compeis but little difference between themi; the Penn- ting for the western trade, should be compelled
sylvania Central and Baltimore & Ohio; the to fix permanent rates for a month, on their difPennsylvania Central to Philadelphia and Balti- ferent lines, and post them up in conspicuous
more; then there is the  ew York & Erie and places, how would it affect the chances of their
the New York Central; the Ogdensburgh route obtaining much of this through business, in
to Boston and the Gran Trunk route to Boston competing with other roads?
and Portland, making six routes by rail, beside   A. If such a tariff were published and fixed
the Erie canal.                              without change —if it were at or below net
Q. What is the distance from Cleveland to cost, the line might do a proportion of the busiNew York and Philadelphia by the Pennsylvania ness; but if it afforded a profit, to any extent,
Central road?                               the competing lines would take it at enough beA. From Cleveland to New York by the Cen- low to entirely control the trade; ten cents per
tral is about 625 miles; by the New York and ton would change it from one route to another.
Erie it is about 600; by the Pennsylvania Cen-   Q. You mean to say that they could not do
tral a little less than 600,-595 miles.      any through business except at a loss?
Q. To New York City?                        A. That would be the practical result.
A. Yes sir: to New York City, by the Balti-   Q. That would be the effect at Cleveland,
more and Ohio road, all rail to New York, it is and other points west, Cincinnati and Chicago.
a little further-I do not recollect exactly the Would the same principle apply at those points?
distance.                                      A. It would.
Q. How do you regard the relative capacities   Q. We would like to have you give your views
of these different lines for the carrying trade?   in regard to the comparative cost of transport" A. The Pennsylvania Central claim that they ing through freight and way freight, with referhave the cheapest route. They have always ence to the pro rata principle, as suggested in
been in the market for business at the lowest that petitionS
prices, and they have often been below  the   A. It is difficult to estimate the accurate comlowest rates.  Whether the Grand Trunk is parative cost between through and way freight.
cheaper or not, I do not know, but they have There are very many elements that change that.
still lower prices than any other lines.     A large amount of local traffic is done at a loss,
% Q. Has there been much competition at Cleve- as there are many stations on different routes
land for the eastern freight, between these dif- that do not receive as much income as it costs
ferent lines?                                to maintain them.  As a whole, local tariffs', A. There has been very great competition, have been regarded as not more profitable than
amounting to the transportation of property at through, heretofore. The increase cost per mile
about net cost to the Atlantic cities.      is varied according to circumstances, and varied
-Q. The G(rand Trunk road does not compete from 25 per cent to two or three hundred per




3
cent or more. I think that the amount of dead    A. The average number of cars hauled in a
weight carried in proportion to the productive  train through a series of years, I think is about,
freight in local business, as a whole, compared  25 per cent less in the winter than in the sumwith the through, is two to one, as the cars are mer, with the same engine.
not fully loaded. Besides, the local trains, from    Q. Are there breakages of rails, &c.?
necessity, average very much less than the    A. The breakages are perhaps four to one
through trains. On one part of the road the in winter as compared with the summer. Some
train may not have more than five cars, and on winters it has been so great as to almost stop
another part may have twenty-five. They aver- the traffic, caused by the breaking of wheels,
age at least from 20 to 40 per cent less cars in axles and rails; metal of any kind is more weak
the transportation of local than in through  when it is frosted than at other times.
trains.                                         Q. Do you generally run trains in the winter
Mr. HAWLEY-You mean less cars in the at as high a rate of speed as in summer!
train?                                          A. It is generally reduced about 10 to 15 per
A. Yes, sir; less cars in the train. Another cent.
element is, more weight per ton carried, in pro-   Q. Which of the through routes from Cleveportion, on way trains than on through.       land are the less liable to obstructions from
Q. I would like to call your attention to one snow.
of the elements of extra cost to which you have   A. It has been the least upon the Pennsylvania
alluded. Your remark has been more particu- Central, I think, and on the Baltimore and Ohio.
larly in reference to the running of the trains.   Q. From that and other circumstances, do you
What do you regard as the per centage chargeable regard those roads you have mentioned, as in any
to the supply of stations, switches, furniture and way formidable competitors for the carrying of
outfit of the road for transacting way business, these freights to the more northern routessuch as would not be required if no way busi- freights from the south and southwest?
ness were done? I would like to have that ex-   A. The practical result has been that they
plained a little, in detail, to show to the com- have always made as low rates since the roads
mittee the extra cost chargeable to that element opened for business, as either the northern
of business?                                 routes, and with the same rates have had their
A. The outlay varies very much upon different full proportion of the traffic. They show their
roads, to accommodate the local and through ability to do it by their net results at the end
business. My judgment would be that it would  of the year.
vary from 15 to 30 per cent.                    Q. What is the relative cost of fuel on those
Q. On the entire cost of the road?         roads, and the New York Roads?
A. Yes, sir.                                  A. Not to exceed one-third, on the Baltimore
Q. I suppose you mean to include the per- and Ohio, as compared with the New York
manent fixtures, or do you intend to include the Roads.
switching and extra men employed at these sta-   Q. They use coal there?
tions?                                         A. Yes sir.
A. I understood your question to refer to the   Q. And on the Pennsylvania Central, is it
permanent outlay, and had no regard to the cheaper generally?
running.                                        A. It may be about one-half.
Q. That was it. Are there other charges con-   Q. That I suppose is an important element in
nected with it?                              the running of the road?
A. Yes, sir; charges for delay, transportation,   A. A very important item.
men employed at the way stations. A man may    Q. What is the effect of reducing the tolls on
be employed at a way station at a cost of $40 the Erie Canal, on the carrying rates from the
per month, and not ship more than a ton of West by railroads?
freight per week.                               A. My impression is that there has been about
Q. Do you think of any other items of ex- the same carried by rail and canal.
pense?                                         Q. I mean its effects upon prices?
A. I do not now.                              A. It effects prices in the proportion as the
Q. How much longer does it require to run lowering of the tolls. Prices have been more
way trains than through trains, and what are the than as much lower than th difference in the
causes of the extra length of time in running toll, for the last two years. 31 think the Erie
the same distance?                            Canal rates control the rates idi the South West
A. It depends very much upon the amount   as far as Cincinnati, control the rates from all
way business. But, generally the way train is points on the Ohio River, Irom Portsmouth to
given about 20 per cent more time. The record Cairo, and up the Mississippi.  Whatever are the
shows that the engine consumes about 20 per cent rates on the Erie Canal, the fetermine the rates
more fuel for the same number of cars, or about and the other competing lines all compete with
25 per cent, and that it takes about 20 per cent those rates. It has been more evident, since the
more time to do the way than the through reduction of the tolls, that the New York routes
business,                                     could maintain their position, in the summer as
Q. Do you think there is any difference in the against the other routes, than ever before, their
cost of transportation of freights between the ability to do the carrying trade, to control it at
winter and the summer seasons. - and if so a rate above the present rates. It would seem to
what are the causes of it.                    me a very small per cent above the present rates
A. It costs more in the winter. It has been by the Erie Canal, would throw the traffic on to
as high as 40 per cent more, and again it might other roads.
not exceed more than 15 or 20 per cent in a   Q. Are you familiar with the New York and
mild winter.                                  Erie Railroad?
Q. Will you state why it costs more?.      A. I am somewhat.




4
Q. Have you ever been over it?              A. I am not prepared to answer that question.
A. I have traveled over it several times, and   Q. If they had to do a freight business at prohave done business in connection with it for the rata charges, I would like to know which in your
last ten years.                             judgment they would sacrifice, the way or the
Q. Before going into the details in reference through freight?
to the Erie road, I will ask you: Suppose this   A. One line might do one and another the
policy of the pro rata be adopted, and it amounts, other. They could not do both on the same taas you think it would, to a prohibition of the riff on that basis.
carrying of through freights over railroads of   Q. Will you give me your opinion as respects
this state, what course do you think freight the New York and Erie road, which it would be
would take?-would it go over the canals of this likely to do under such a restriction, whether it
state, or other competing railroads, as near as could do any through business under that aryou can judge?                              rangement at a paying rate?
A. It would diminish from the canal and in-   A. I think it could not do any in the summer
crease upon the other roads.                 season. In the winter it might. You could not
Q. Why would it diminish by the canals do nmake a summer tariff and do any business on a
you think?                                   basis of that kind.
A. The proposition was, if they increased the   Q. What would be the effect of such a restrictolls.                                       tion upon any one railroad, as to increasing the
Q. If this policy was adopted requiring pro amount of business done by it, or increasing the
rata rates, I think you said it would prevent any value of its stock, or enabling it to pay the incarrying over the roads of this state of through terest upon its indebtedness, or anything of that
freights; what route-what channel would it kind?  Whether it would be considered benefitake?                                       cial as a measure, or one quite the reverse geneA. The tendency of all freights of value now  rally?
is, to go by rail; it would seek the rail lines as   A. I think, if any one line was restricted from
it can go so much quicker; the loss of interest, the Mississippi valley to the Atlantic cities and
too, is so much less, and various influences tend all the rest were left free, it would annihilate its
to throw freight on the railroads, as the differ- value practically.
ence is so small between the cost on rail lines   Mr. CONKLIN-Take these five or six several
and the canal.                               routes which you have described, is it your
Q. Is the absolute cost of transportation the opinion that the adoption of this policy would
controlling influence in fixing the rate, or is it tend to the destruction of the value of both the
the demand for the article in the market and New York Central and the New York and Erie
the rate of exchanges?-I would like to have you railroads?
state the influences?                         A. It would destroy the entire value of the
A. There are two-time and cost; to certain Erie, and would injure the Central very much,
parties time is of no account-to other parties it although its local business might pay something
is everything.                               over its running expenses.
Q. A sudden demand for instance?            Mr. CONKLIN-Is it your opinion that the
A. Yes sir.                                adoption of this policy would tend to the augQ. In your railroad experience, have you mentation of the rates on through freights, and
ever known railroads to do a through and way- not to the diminution of the rates on the way
freight business at the same rate-at a pro rata business?
rate?                                         A. I think it would leave the through rates
A. No sir.                                 about the same.  There are so many other
Q. Do you think it can be done successfully on thoroughfares that the entire freight can be carany road with which you are acquainted, in do- ried by other routes to the Atlantic cities.
ing both classes of business under the same rate   Mr. CONKLIN-I don't know as I made myof charges per ton per mile?                 self fully understood. We will suppose the
A. It might be done if other thoroughfares, case of the New York and Erie Road. The
both by water and rail, adopted the same plan; Legislature enacts a law that the rates of transbut while every point has two or more modes of portation on way and through business shall be
transportation-thoroughfares-it would be il- the same per ton per mile. Now, in your opinpracticable.                                 ion, would that policy tend to increase the presQ. Will you state the reasons to the Commit- ent through rates, or to diminish the present
tee why it would be impracticable?          way rates?
A. The through rate, controlled by the net   A. I think the tendency would be to increase
cost pro rata, would be so high, that it would en- the way rates, and not to affect the through
able the competitor, who is not restricted, to rates much. If there was but one thoroughfare,
make profits on the through business, and to ex- the result would be to increase the way and
tend and control it. A pro rata making a through through rates the same.
rate which would be based upon net cost for   Mr. FLAGLER-Does your road (the Clevelocal, would be so high as to afford a profit to land, Painesville and Ashtabula) ever pro rate
competing lines, and lines restricted by the pro with either of the New York and Erie, or New
rata would be deprived of its entire business, York Central, in rates of freight passing over
and would have to do either a through or local one or the other of these New York roads?
business entirely; that is so far as profits are   A. Yes, sir.
concerned.                                     Mr. FLAGLER-Divide in proportion to the
Q. Which do you think the New York roads distance carried?
would have to do under this regulation, a through    A. Not on everything, at all times; but in a
or a way business?  What would be the result large proportion we do.;is.tm1aa respect?                             MR. FLAGLER-You stated that the compe



5
tition you meet with on through freights, is so   Mr. COBB-Is that confined only to third or
great, that at times, freights are transported at fourth class merchandise, or is it confined to
cost. Have you any opinion as to what propor- provisions, flour, &c.?
tion of this business you speak of is carried at   A. Provisions and flour are rated as fourth
cost, and without profit?                   class?
A. During the last eight months a very large   Mr. COBB-When rated at all?
proportion has come to very near cost.         A. Yes sir.
Mr. FLAGLER-And on the balance, will you   Mr. COBB-But are they not carried at special
give us your opinion, whether there is much of rates without reference to classification or the
any profit on that, even?                   prices of that class?
A. There is a very fair profit on certain por-   A. It is done so to quite an exent from the
tions of the through traffic.                west. But since there has been an agreement
Mr. FLAGLER-Can you give us an opinion between the different lines for common rates they
with regard to this through business you speak have often put them in the fourth class. But a
of, as a whole? Is it, or is not profitable, or large proportion has been carried under special
very profitable to the railroads dividing it?  contracts from important points at the west.
A. I think it has not been very profitable for   Q. I think of one question which I would
the last year. I think the time will soon come like to ask you. Being president of a road, I
when it will be.                             suppose you have attended these railroad conCross-Examination.-Mr. COBB —What is the ventions, which has been held at different
distance from  Cleveland by the Grand Trunk points, to agree upon freights and passenger
road to New York?                            rates, &c.?
A. I cannot give you the distance accu-   A. I have generally attended them for the
rately. I think the rail used on the Grand last ten years.
Trunk is about 750 miles. We do not regard it   Q. Will you explain to the Committee the
as a competitor at Cleveland, but at points be- effect of these meetings on prices of freight,
yond.                                        whether at these conventions rates have been
Mr. COBB-Then from  Columbus, via the agreed upon and advanced generally, and which
Grand Trunk to New York, you regard the Grand are considered to be binding by those carrying
Trunk as in direct competition?              interests?
A. Perhaps you misunderstood me in the re-   A. General conventions have been held which
mark I made in relation to the Grand Trunk.    have had a very favorable effect in that direcMr. COBB-I understood you to say that at tion, but they have not been a cure of low rates.
Columbus the Grand Trunk came in competition It is by the ability of one line to change its rates
from the west by cutting off supplies for Cleve- at three hours notice which has kept rates up.
land?                                        Conventional rules have not been very much
A. Yes, sir. Allow me to explain how it is. regarded.
Portland is a point where a great deal of traffic has   Q. Explain that a little more fully-the keepgone, but heretofore from Cincinnati and Colum- ing of rates up or below a losing rate?
bus to Baltimore, and thence by propeller to   A. Conventional rates are agreed upon and
Portland. By the Grand Trunk the business are publicly known to the world. If any one
can go from Cincinnati and Columbus direct to line holds strictly to these rules, there is some
Portland. I do not regard the Grand Trunk as other of the great lines that would be quite apt
a competitor for New York business, except as through their agents to make lower rates; but
it may affect the Liverpool and London trade.   if it is known that others are prepared to change
Mr. COBB-You mentioned that there was 25 on the same day they do, there is but little inper cent less to run the engine in summer than ducement to change. The rate is being adhered
in winter. Does that grow out of the inability to more than formerly —more generally than it
of the engine to haul, or because you wish to was a few years ago. It is only the ability to
run a given number of trains, or that the num- change rates at once that keeps them up; there
ber of cars?                            is no other process that seems to answer the
A. The friction of the cars is much greater.  purpose-no other policy.
Mhr. COBB-Then it is the inabilty to haul?  Q. Do you think the railroads of our State
A. Yes sir.                                would have the ability, if the provisions in this
Mr. COBB-You mentioned the appreciation proposed bill were carried out, of appearing in
or depreciation of the rates of freight as corn- these conventions by their agents to fix these
pared with the rates of the canal. What periods rates?
of the year are these manifested?             A. If your State has the ability to support a
A. From June to August are the lowest rates line below cost, and sustain it, you would probgenerally, on account of the small amount of ably do all the business; but if you published
freight to be carried, going west or coming east. rates through the west, that afford a profit, to
Mr. COBB-Is there any period of the year, be binding for thirty days, other lines would
for a series of years, about which time the rates put their rates just enough below to get the
have either appreciated or depreciated?     traffic until you published another tariff.
A. I have no general impression upon that.   Mr. HAWLEY-Is there certain classes of
I think the opening of the Erie canal has gene- freight that are deemed railroad freight, under
rally been the time at which the rates have usu- certain circumstances, and others which go on
ally changed on both classes to the west. There railroads always? if so, what classes have that
has been a reduction at that time.          tendency?-I mean, supposing that there are
Mr. COBB-At any period of the year has rail lines to transport it.
there been an advance?                        A. Where there are rail lines, at least 95 per
A. On the closing of the canal the rates have cent of the third and fourth classes go by rail,
changed again.                               at all times, as against the canals.




Mr. CONKLIN-Which classes.               the transportation of merchandise of the fourth
A. The third and fourth classes-no, the first class?
and second-not the third and fourth.          A. Yes, Sir, but not entirely.
Mr. CONKLIN-You have several times al-   Mr. HAWLEY-I want to ask you if the low
luded to first class merchandise where railroads rates of last year have had any effect in extendand canals do not come into competition. What ing the region through which we compete to the
are they.. southwest, and what effect it has had in drawing
A. The first class embraces all valuable  trade from that quarter?
goods-dry goods, &c. The first and second-   A. Last year-the last two years-a greater
Mr. CONKLIN-You mean goods valuable in area has been controlled and covered by the
proportion to their bulk?                  northern lines than previous years.
A. Hats and caps-dry goods. New England    Mr. HAWLEY — Is that due to the low prices,
domestics are generally classed in second class.  do you think?
Mr CONKLIN-You mean cotton sheetings,   A. It is. The present tolls on the Erie Canal
&c.?                                       will control a large portion of the freights from
A. Yes, Sir. They generally go on rail, except the Ohio Valley.
where there are'propeller lines. Those goods   Mr. HAWLEY -Has the increase or diminugo on propeller lines to a large extent. It is in  tion of the tolls on the Erie Canal extended the
fourth class generally that the canal competes area of trade in that direction?
with the railroads.                           A. It has always had a very decided effect at
Mr. CONKLINT-What articles are in the fourth  Cairo.
class?
class?                                       Mr. HAWLEY-Have you been able to obA. Sumber, provisions, flour, grain.      serve when the tolls were reduced, that there was
Q. Ores, iron and coal?                   an effect produced of extending the reach of the
A. Yes, Sir. Iron, coal and lumber nearly all canal in the southwest?
go by cana! when navigation is open.           A. Yes, Sir. Prior to the opening of theBaltiMr. ALLEN-In what are groceries classified? more and Ohio and Pennsylvania Railroads, to
the third and fourth classes?
the third and fourth classes?          the southwest, the Mississippi river was the
A. Sugar in large quantities, and molasses and  competing route.
coffee are generally in the fourth class. Coffee   Mr. HAWLEY -What effect did the late reis about the only article that the rail competes duction of tolls on the canal have on the prices
with the canal in the fourth class in the summer
of freights on railroads? Did the reduction
time. It is an article that they carry a larger per enable canals and railroads to receive so much
cent of than any other of that class; it is more per ton for freight or did they have to go down
valuable.                                    also?
Mr. ALLEN-In speaking of railroad convenMr. ALLEN-In  speaking of railroad conven-   A. They did go down in proportion to the retions, would the prices established during the duction of tolls upon the canal.
duction of tolls upon the canal.
season of canal navigation by these conventions,   Mr. ALLEN - Are you governed by the valuabe somewhat regulated by the prices of trans- tion of goods or their bulk and weight?
portation on the canals, and, to a degree be   A. Both have an influence in determining the
9                  A. Both have an influence in determining the
governed by them in making the prices?       rates, as we are insurers on the rail and charge
A. Yes, Sir, they are generally governed by  higher for valuable goods in consequence of their
them in the fourth class-the higher classes.    liability to destruction in our hands.
Mr. ALLEN-Of heavy goods?                    Mr. ALLEN — What proportion do you charge
A. Yes, Sir.
Mr. ALLEN-In connection with this subject upon the valuation —I mean approximatively?
Mr. ALLEN —In connection with this subject   A. There can be no fixed rule. Pig iron, for
what is the difference generally-the extreme instance, cannot be damaged.
difference between the prices of first and fourth    Mr. ALLEN- I speak in reference to the bulk
class articles-charged usually by rail?      of articles
A. The first class is generally not less than one furniture,  such as dry goods, hats and caps,
furniture, what you generally class as second
hundred per cent more than the fourth class and  class goods?
is often one hundred and twenty-five per cent   A. We cannot adopt any rigid definite rule
more. Once and a quarter, and once and a half with regard to that. It is a matter of general
more in some tariffs.
judgment. There are a good many very valuaMr. CONKLIN-Do these rates vary accord- <          *
Mr. CONKLIN-tDo  these rates vary accord- ble silks which necessarily have to go in a stock
i   to the value of the goods-for intance-  of goods in the same class with certain other
does the consumer pay any more on $100 worth. -        i
kinds of cheaper goods. They go in, and though
of goods in the first class than he does on the                                      n
ofgode vslue ofi the fourth class than? hedesoth they have the same bulk, they are of much gireatert value. It is impracticable to control that enMr. HAWLEY —The same quantity you mean  tirely without?aing too man classes.
Mr. CONKLIN-Take $100 worth owing to the   Mr. ALLEN  - Then yoan  t oo many classes.
Mr. ALLEN   Then you are governed genevalue of the goods                           rally by bulk
A. On some articles it would be the same-    A  Yes Sir
the same price for the same value-on others it   The co ittee took   recess to three o'clock..ou~d not.                                 The committee took a recess to three o'clock.
wou!d not.
Q. Do you transport any milk on your western
roads?
A. No, Sir, not to any extent worth noticing.
Mr. CONKLIN —You have found in the prose-   The committee re-assembled at three o'clock,
cution of your business as president of the all the members being present.
Cleveland, Painesville and Ashtabula road that   CHARLES MINOTT made the following statethe competition between the Erie canal and the ment, the examination being conducted by Mr.
railroads of this state is exclusive or chiefly in  Hawley.




Q. What is your present occupation?        A. It is a little longer, I cannot give the numA. T am superintendent of the New York and her of miles.
Erie Railroad.                                Q. Is there any further connection East of
Q. State what length of time you have been in that?
that relation to the New York & Erie Railroad,   A. None except our own branch to Newburgh,
and when you were appointed?               and the branch to Piermont; at Corning we conA. For nearly five months back, and from  nect with the Blossburgh road which leads to the
May 1st, 1850, to May 1st, 1854.            coal regions.
Q. Something over four years?              Q. I wish you to state to the Committee what
A. Four years and five months nearly.     you consider the competing lines of transportaQ. Had you been familiar with railroad busi- tion, competing with your road for the great
ness prior to that?                        traffic between the East and the West and SouthA. I had been on the Boston and Maine Rail- West, and the North and East?
road, in Massachusetts, and on the Michigan   A. The Baltimore and Ohio, th Pennsylvania
Southern road in the west.                  Central, through Philadelphia, rand with its
Q. For what length of time, about, on all these  ntown connection, not going through Pqaroads?                                     delphia, but ma ing a short cut to New York
A. Nearly 19 years in all, on different roads.   Mr. CONKLIN —Connecting with the New
Q. During that time has it been in your line Jersey Central?
of business and duty, to investigate and under-   A. Yes, sir. The New York Central, the Erie
stand the carrying traffic between the East and Canal and the Grand Trunk.
the West, over the regions which you have men-   Q. The Grand Trunk terminates at Portland,
tioned?                                    does it not?
A. It has.                                  A. At Portland.
Q. Will you state to the Committee the length   Q. What is the character of Portland as to its
of the New YorkBand Erie road, and the divisions harbor, compared with New York, Philadelphia
in which it is operated?                   and Boston?
A. The distance from Jersey City to Dunkirk   A. It is the best harbor in the United States.
is 460 miles; the eastern division is 88 miles.    They have the deepest water there, and it is
Q. Reaching to what point?               never frozen.
A. To Port Jervis; the Delaware division from    Q. How much nearer is that to Liverpool than
Port Jervis to Susquehanna is 104 miles; the New York, about?
Susquehanna division from  Susquehanna to   A. It is a little over three hundred miles.
Hornellsville is 140 miles, and the Western divi-   Q. What is the present Railroad connection of
division, from Hornellsville to Dunkirk, is 12P the Grand Trunk, with the roads of the United
miles.                                      States?
Q. What are the grades and curvatures as res-   A. They own the line to Detroit.
pects the Eastern and Western divisions?     Q. Is there any connection between them and
A. On the Eastern division there are quite a Toronto, with the Canada and Great Western
number of grades of 60 feet to the mile; on the road?
Western division there is no grade over 50 feet;   A. Certainly.
on the Susquehanna there is none over 10 feet to   Q. Then, at Detroit, they connect with all the
the mile; and on the Delaware division none roads connecting with the Michigan Central
over 15 feet, except at Deposit-between there west, and the Michigan Southern west.
and Susquehanna, where the grade is 60 feet, for   A. Yes, Sir; and the Dayton and Michigan
15 miles, going over the summit.            road to Cincinnati, and the northwest with the
Q. Will you state the railroad connections of Detroit and Milwaukie.
the New York & Erie road, commencing at Dun-   Q. By that route they cross Lake Michigan.
kirk and going east?                         A. Yes, Sir, on boats.
A. At Dunkirk, with the Buffalo and Erie and   Q. Considering the traffic that is now the subLake Shore roads; at Hornellsville, with the ject of investigation, to be between that wide
Attica aud Buffalo roads.                   western, northwestern, southwestern, and the
Q. Leading to Buffalo?                    east and northeast to Europe, state, in your
A. Yes, sir, leading to Buffalo; at Corning opinion, how smal! an amount of ascertained
with the Buffalo and New York road, which goes and certain advantage would turn the freights
to Rochester and Buffalo; at Elmira with the of the country.
Williamsport road, which connects with roads   A. A very small price per ton, with the same
leading to Philadelphia.                    time.
Q. Is there a route to New York through that   Q. I mean all things considered as an advanconnection?                                tage.
A. There is.                                A. A very small difference in freight — say 20
Q. How does that route to New York compare cents per ton. I could hardly say it would be
with your own?                             so small.
A. It is considerable further.              Q. Do you not consider that the lines of comQ. What is the next connection East?     petition you have named, are really in the field
A. At Owego, it connects with the road to of competition against the New York and Erie
Ithaca; at Binghampton, with the road to Syra- and the New York Central roads?
cuse; at Great Bend it connects with the Dela-   A. They all are, except the   1 n conware, Lockawanna and Western road to New  nection of the Pennsylvania,    w 
York.                         omingpS   They are all in active competiQ. Can you tell the distance by the Delaware tion.
and Lockawanna road to New York, as compared   Q. Can you tell me how much the Allentown
with your own?                             route reduces the distance -about how much?




8
A. I forget; but I think, from Chicago, 60    A. We start the train on time. We start the
miles over the Erie; I am not sure; I may be  way train with few cars and empty.
wrong.                                           Mr. FLAGLER —When your' time comes you
Q. That is the last and newest route?      start a through train?
A. Yes, Sir; it and the Grand Trunk, which    A. I did not understand you. When we have
tompleted its western connection this year.   no business for a through train we do not start
Q. Can you, from recollection, name the route  them.
of all these from the West to the East which, in    Q. But your way business demands that you
the summer, presents the shortest line of rail to  run them regularly?
New York.                                        A. Yes, sir, we must get some freight.
A. From Chicago, do you mean?                  Q. You depend upon the accident of getting
Q. From the west; from Chicago?            freight?
A. The Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago.   A. We do.
Q. I want to call your attention to the dis-    Q. Does it ever occur that you do not get as
tance by rail from Buffalo to Albany, and from  much way freight as you can draw?
Oswego to Albany, supposing the freight to go    A. We rarely do. It is an accident if we do.
by Lake to Oswego, and by river from here to  In loading as we do at way stations, we have to
Nev York; how much rail line is there?        do it hastily, and they cannot get it so closely
A. I don't know the distance to Oswego.     -packed as it is in through trains. We carry twice
Mr. HAWLEY-It is 183 miles.                 the number of men, brakemen, that we do on
A. I know it is so much less that the freight through freight trains, because they have to do
would go to Oswego instead  of Buffalo or this loading.
Dunkirk.                                         Q. Is there any element of increased expense
Q. Under pro rata?                         in the wear and tear of train and track, by reason
A. Under pro rata, certainly. It would be  of these frequent stoppages?
183 miles by rail against 300 by the Central.    A. Of course there is; in stopping and startQ. From here to Buffalo?                   ing, applying the brakes to the trains.
A. Yes, sir; and while on the Lakes the trans-   Q. Is there a larger consumption of fuel per
portation would be very small.                ton?
Q. In reaching out for this traffic what motives    A. Yes, sir, every stop is a large element of
govern your road in fixing its rates of tariff?  cost.
A. We try to fix them at such a rate as will   Q. Does it cost a larger amount of wages per
give us the most money for the least work.     ton for your employees?
Q. Then I understand you that there is no    A. That is so, because we only run way trains
tendency to carry freights lower than is neces- about half as fast, and it takes nearly twice the
sary to get them?                            men.
A. Certainly not.                              Q. State, if you please, the increased cost of the
Q. In making out a tariff of this kind, when  original investment in a road on account of way
you are in full competition with these routes, stations. switches, turn-outs, side track, and
are there times when, in a business point of increased expense of stations, that are called for
view, you would be justified in carrying freight by way business as compared with through busibelow what it would cost to carry it?  ness. State if you can, what per cent of cost it
A. It might, to bring other roads to terms, is more than through freight?
and make them agree upon some fair tariff; for   A. If the Erie Railroad was only arranged
a short time to carry lower than cost.         for doing through business, more than sevenQ. Then in competition it is deemed good  eighths of the expenses would be saved.
business policy at times to carry at less than    Q. In stations?
cost for the purpose of forcing competitors on    A. Of stations, turn-outs and those accomcompensating ground?                         modations for freight houses, certainly sevenA. Most certainly, it is occasionally done.  eighths would be saved.
Q. Which do you consider the greater, the    Q. Can you make an approximate estimate of
cost of transporting through or way freights on  the cost of these stations?
your road?                                      A. I cannot, and the same would apply to the
A. There can be no question, the way freight help, the help at the stations would be diminished
costs more than the through.                  in the same way.
Q. What proportion is there between the numQ. Give in detail the elements of the increased  ber of cars on a through train and on a way
cost on way over through freights, as you view train on your road?
it in your railroad offices 2                    A. I never looked to see; we start with one or
A. One element is that we take, on our road, two, and we pick up all the way; we do not
twice the time to get a way train over, than a  carry so many; I have never looked to see, but
through freight train. We have to start with  the number is much less, of course.
one or two cars at the commencement and by    Q. This petition asks that each railroad in this
the time it gets through we calculate to have a state publish their tariff once each month, the
full train. Frequently we do not get it; we same to remain fixed for the month, and that
have to run that risk. Therefore the average  each company be compelled to charge pro rata
load of a way train is less than that of the  an equal sum per ton per mile, or quantity per
through train, with which we start at the end  mile, on the whole length of the road, what
of the road with as many cars as we can haul. effect would that restriction have upon your road
Then at every station, with the way trains, we when you were in the western market competing
have to stop and back into the switches.       for through freights-how would it operate?
Mr. FLAGLER-Don't you have a regular    A. It would be very injurious, for we could
time for starting through trains?             not meet the competitions of other roads by




coming down as low as they, and we should lose   A. We should have to increase the price to
a great deal of business; they would have it in get a reasonable interest on our investment, to
their power to fix their tariff so that we could pay the interest on our bonds. We should have
not get any through business, or very little, if to increase the way freight beyond all question.
any; the other roads, knowing our tariff, would   Q. And if you were cut down to such a busiavrange theirs so as to get the whole of it.  ness is there any economies you could introduce
Q. The other roads chose to make special in the way of dispensing with stations or other
rates, do they not?                       things that would economize your work; I
A. They do very often.                   mean those establishments which you have set
Q. If they knew your rate on the first day of np for the accommodation of way freight?
May, and you were bound to charge those rates   A. There are stations at which the profits of
during the month, would you stand any chance the business done do not pay the expenses.
of getting any freight as against them?     Q. Then true economy would require you to
A. I think they would be very apt to get the abolish these C
freight at rates a little less than ours.    A. Looking only to the interests of the road
Q. Are there any points on your route where and not to the accommodation of the people, it
other roads can compete for your way business would require it.
to New York?                                 Q. In your opinion what proportion of the
A. The Delaware & Lackawanna can compete. expenditure for way stations, to accommodate
for our way business west of Great Bend.   way freight, would be saved if you confined
Q. How is it as to Elmira?              yourself to through business?
A. The Elmira and Williamsport could com-   A. Seven-eights of it would be saved, I am
pete, but the competition would not be very convinced.
great, because the road is not a good one; in   Q. Assuming that you were compelled to pro
transporting freights, a little additional distance rata, to charge equal prices per quantity and
does nob make much difference.             distance on all articles, what would be the effect
Q. Is it not in the power of longer routes to of the traffic in small articles, as, for instance,
fix the rates of shorter routes to bid against those usually taken by express?
them?                                       A. There could be no express over the road.
A. The Grand Trunk is giving all our roads It would ruin the Express Companies beyond
our through rates.                         question.
Q. They are able to fix the minimum to you   Q. Will you explain what would be the diffiby bidding down?                           culty of Express Companies doing business
A. Yes, sir; they are doing it.          under such an arrangement, where quantities
Q. Will that principle apply to the Elmira were pro rated?
and Williamsport road?                       A. Their profits are on small packages, on
A. Yes sir.                              whtch they get from 25 to 50 cents upon two or
Q. Under all the circumstances, suppose you three pounds. Under a pro rata bill that would
were subject to that restriction, what, in your have to be carried at a regular price per ton,
judgment, would be the necessary course of the and the Railroad Companies would have to do
New York & Erie road in deciding which branch it, and all the Express Companies would have
of that traffic they would retain, and which they remaining to do, would be carrying money,
would give up?                            packages and valuable papers, &c.
A. I think they would give up the through   Q. What would be the effect on the express
business, beyond all doubt.                business by the increased time that would result
Q. Could you get the through business at from running way trains alone?
way rates?                                  A. If it was ruined before, I suppose it would
A. Not by any means; we should get none at be to ruin it again. [Laughter.]
all.                                         Q. Would it not compel the Express CompaQ. Suppose you fixed your pro rata way rates nies to do business on other routes?
so that they would pay you a small compensa-   A. It would throw the Express on roads out
tion, could you get through freights at any such of the State, that is certain.
figure?                                     Q. What is your opinion as to the necessity of
A. At any reasonable compensation, I do not competing railroads having the power to fix rates
think we could get any through business at all.  from day to day for long freights?
Q. Could you do way business at the rate you   A. It is a very great element of power to enable
would be required to do through business in us to keep up prices, by our being able to meet
competition?                              our competitors, if they are taking a course that
A. Not profitably at all. We might save our- we think injurious.
selves. There would be no profit in the invest-   Q. The railroad companies have conventions
ment, or profit over and above the actual cost of at times, the object of which is to fix prices so
doing the work.                           that they should not go too low?
Q. You mean over and above the current ex-   A. They do.
penses of the work, and not the interest on the   Q. They never meet for the purpose of lowerdebt?                                     ing prices, do they?
A. Not at all.                             A. They generally meet when they have got
Q. Then if they had no other business than them down so low that they can't live any longer.
that, at that rate you would be running in debt?   Q. Suppose you were doing business under a
A. Yes, sir; every year.                 pro rata bill, how much respect, do you think,
Q. What would be the effect on prices of way you would command in such a convention as
freight, by your road attempting to live by get- that-your road?
ting a compensating revenue out of the way   A. We should be powerless under those cirfreight, upon the prices of way freight I  cumstances.
2




10
Q. What is the general practice of railroads in on the other bonds is not being paid at present.
regard to having their agencies, roads outside of   Mr. COBB-In the answer, do you contemthe state having them in this state, and the roads plate raising more money?
of New York having agencies in Western cities?   A. I suppose we are under obligation to.
A. Most of the important lines have agents   Mr. COBB-Did you intend, if you make
west, and most of the Western lines in New York your revenue on way freight, to pay interest on
to look after their freight business.       mortgage?
Q. Is fuel considered a large element of ex-   A. By the profits on way freight and the paspense?                                      senger business altogether of our business, we
A. It is a very large element.            should try to get it from the way freight and
Q. Are you able to state about the cost per passenger business, but we should have to inmile for fuel on your road?                crease our rates for way freight to get enough
A. On some roads it is from 23 to 24 cents; on money to pay interest.
Jhe Baltimore and Ohio road it is only two or   Mr. COBB -On the first mortgage bonds?
hree cents.                                  A. All the mortgage interest.
Q. What is the reason of this difference?  Mr. COBB- Then you contemplate paying
A. They run through a coal mining country, more than you are now paying?
Wvhere fuel costs almost nothing.             A. Yes, sir.
Q. What are the figures?                   Mr. COBB —If you abandoned way freight
A. I saw in the paper that the cost was from  you would save seven-eighths of the expense?
two to three cents a mile.                    A. Yes, sir, those that are built for way freight.
Q. Has the Pennsylvania Central also an ad- If we only carried through freight from Dunkirk
iqantage over you?                         we would save seven-eighths of our investment
A. In a large degree, but not so much as the for these things.
)altimore and Ohio.                           Mr. COBB - How do your prices now compare
Q. Do these roads have any advantage over with those of the Baltimore and Ohio Road and
your road in respect to climate in winter?  the Pennsylvania Central to Western Points?
A. We are obstructed more or less every year   A. We try to keep them alike.
by snow.                                      Mr. COBB- They are essentially alike?
Q. More than they?                         A. They are.
A. Always; and we have, from the frost,   Mr. COBB —How do your rates in Summer
more broken rails, axles and wheels, beyond compare with those rates?
question.                                     A. They have the ocean in the Summer and
Q. Will you state whether your cost of trans- the river.
portation and carrying is actually greater in   Q. How do your rates to common points in
winter than in summer, and if so, the reasons.  the West compare during the summer and winA. Beyond all question much greater in the ter?
winter.                                       A. It is since the summer that I resumed my
Q. State the elements of the increased cost?   connection with the road. I do not know what
A. I have no doubt it costs 50 per cent more our rates were last summer.
to do the business in the winter than in the   Mr. COBB-Are the present rates of steam
summer.                                     carrying compensating?
Q. What are the elements of the increase?  A. They pay some profit.
A. The engines cannot draw so heavy loads;   Mr. COBB-How do you account for it that
the rails break, often causing accidents to the while you are obstructed in the winter that you
wheels and cars; when there is snow on the can carry freight as cheap as they?
track the power is diminished in a much greater   A. We agree upon the rates, but they make
degree than from the common causes, and we more money than we do.
cannot haul as much.                          Mr COBB —You agree upon winter rates and
Q. Are there occasions when the expense of you go by the agreement?
the removal of the snow is very great?       A. Yes, sir.
A. Many times more than all the receipts and   Mr. COBB-What is the difficulty in making
passengers for the day.                     an agreement for the summer, as to this rate, and
Mr. COBB-You mentioned that the Grand thus keep up prices?
Trunk had its connections at Detroit, do you   A. Because they have more water than we;
mean to say that the Grand Trunk runs to they have the ocean at one end of their rail
Detroit?                                   route and the river at the other.
A. By crossing the river. They commonly   Mr. COBB-If the pro rata policy were adoptrun on the East side of the river to Detroit.    ed, where would the through freight of Ohio and
Q. Do they not run to Sarnia?            Indiana go?
A. There is a road to Detroit from opposite   A. It would go over the Pennsylvania CenSarnia. The Grand Trunk are building a road tral, the Baltimore and Ohio or the Grand Trunk
at the crossing of the Michigan Southern roads railroads.
I inferred that they run from it. They have   Mr. COBB-Suppose you were compelled to
control of that road, I am sure of that. The adopt the pro rata, where would the freight of
cars of course do not cross the river.      Ohio and Indiana go. What avenue would it
Mr. COBB- You remarked that you would be probably seek?
compelled to increase the rates on your way    A. It would seek the Pennsylvania Central or
freight, if you wished to secure enough to pay  the Baltimore and Ohio.
interest on your bonds. How is the interest paid    Mr. COBB-Why would it seek them in preat the present time?                       ference to the canal?
A. The interest on the first mortgage bonds is   A. The more costly goods, the rail good,
paid from the receipts of the road. The interest would take the southern lines.




11
Mr. COBB-How about the rest?              A. They seem determined to get it, by making
A. They would take the canal as they do their prices to get it.
now.                                         Mr. COBB-How would they take it from
Mr. COBB-Take Chicago as a starting point, Chicago?
during the summer, suppose you were compelled   A. One way would be to take it by propellers
to adopt the pro rata principle, where would from Portland to New York.
that trade go?                             Mr. COBB-How would they bring it from
A. I think the Grand Trunk would get a large Chicago? Describe.
portion of it?                              A. Thev would take the Michigan Southern
Mr. COBB-You spoke of the express business. to Toledo, and the Toledo and Monroe to Detroit,
What did you refer to?                   then the road to opposite Sarnia, which they
A. The United States Express Company which have control of, and then their own road to Portruns over our road, and the American Express land.
Company on the Central.                     Mr. COBB- And that route you estimate
Mr. COBB —Have you examined the provisions would be the cheapest in dollars and cents, conof the bill before the committee?         sidering insurance, for flour and provisions for
A. I have read it over.                  New York during the summer season?
Mr. COBB-Do you suppose that its provisions   A. I do not know as it would be the cheapest.
reach express goods?                      I have not been in the summer's business for
A. I so understood it.                  several summers. I came on the road in SepMr. COBB —It is not generally so understood. tember, and their road was not then completed.
It is to prevent them from receiving a comlmis- I do not know what the tolls on the canal were
sion for attendance; but I do not suppose it pre- last summer.
vents them fromi receiving a commission for de-   Mr. COBB-Then I understand that you do
livery?                                   not pretend to answer the question.  What
A. I suppose the price would be so low on the changes in the through tariffs have occurred
railroads that it would go to the railroad instead since September?  If any, when were they
of the company?
Mr. COBB —How do you explain the idea that   A. The changes are made by the receiver, and
prices weould be advanced  p               not by me; I know they have been increased,
A. The business of the express is carrying but what the increase is I do not know; the
small packages; the price per ton has very little general freight agent is here and can answer the
to do with it, and $5 or $10 per ton would make question
but very little difference, the prices are so small
on each package.                            Mr. COBB-What time did that take place?
Mr. COBB-But the aggregate is very large?    A. It generally takes place at the close of canal
A. Certainly it is.                      navigation.
Mr. COBB-How many cars over your road   Q. Does the Grand Trunk Railway present
each train?                               superior facilities for transporting, from the west
A. We average a car load each day, each way. to Portland and to Europe, freight of the class
That is about the average, I should think.  that have been accustomed to go to New York
Mr. COBB-In your opinion would the Grand and thence to Europe, provisions, flour, &c.?
Trunk take the New York city business from    A. I do not know; their distance is greater.
Chicago during summei?                      Q. I mean their price —whether they made
A. I have not been here for three or four years better offers for transportation?
in the summer season.                        A. They are far better than ever before known
Mr. COBB-What is your opinion based, upon for rail rates.
19 years experience on railroads?           Q. Suppose they continue their offers, would
A. I think the canal would get no more than it not have the eflect to divert flom New York
it now does.                 #             City and from the lines through this state, some
Mr. COBB-I am asking about the Grand portion of the freight that goes to Europe, of that
Trunk. Would it get the New York city trade class?
from Chicago during the summer season. I ask   A. Certainly; that is the object of the Grand
you as an expert familiar with these things.  Trunk Railway.
Mr. HAWLEY-You mean under a pro rata   Q. Would you not understand that to be a
law?                                      diversion of freights from the State and City of
Mr. COBB-Yes, Sir, under a pro rata, if you New York?
pleafse.                                     A. Most certainly.
A. I think they would get a good deal of it.   Q. If there  is any considerable amount of
They charge only 3 of a cent per ton per mile.  freight in that direction, what is the probability
Mr. COBB- Do you estimate 3 of a pcent per of imnportatiols coming back by the same line?
ton per mile cheaper transportation than the   A. They have an arrangement by which goods
ocean, lake or canal?                      coming to Portland go over that road immediately
A. Taking into consideration time, insurance, without any detention in the custom-house.
8&rc., it would be a preferable -price.      Q. Are their rates for return freights from
Mr. COBB-In point of dollars and cents?    there equally low?
A. For a great many goods.                 A. I have understood they are; but I do not
Mr. COBB-What g~ods?                   know any thing about return freights.
A. I think that provisions and flour would go   Mr. COBB-In your opinion, would not heavy
round that way.                            freights take the canals to a large extent-fourth
Mr. COBB-You think they would take pro- class goods, on the supposition that the railroads
visions and flour to New York by that route as a should raise local freights?
matter of economy?                          A. That would be the effecot more than it is




12
now, from the places where there is canal comrn-   A. The extreme point is New Orleans in the
petition.                                    southwest.
Mr. COBB-You mentioned the rates from    Q. In reference to the capacity to carry cheap,
Chicago by the Grand Trunk Railroad to Europe, how will the Pennsylvania Central compare with
can you name any article that they propose to the New York and Erie, take it altogether?
take?                                          A. Do you mean the Pennsylvania Central
A. Not from my own knowledge; I saw an road only, or through its connections to reach
article to-day, in the New York Times, on that distant points?
subject.                                       Q. I mean in what respects has it an advanMr. COBB-Has not your road an arrange- tage over the New York and Erie, for engaging
ment with Europe for importation in the same in this traffic successfully-say in the matter of
way?                                        fuel?
A. We have made an arrangement; I have   A. I should think that the cost of fuel on the
understood the Central has also on roads next Pennsylvania Central was about one-half that on
parallel with them.                          the New York and Erie.
Mr. COBB-Can you compete with the Grand   Q. Do you know whether the curvatures and
Trunk in doing business?                     grades of the Pennsylvania Central is greater
A. I am afraid not.                        than on the New York and Erie?
NATHANIEL MARSH was next introduced, he   A. I believe that they have somegrades higher,
have the following testimony, the examination but on the whole their grades are quite as favorbleing conducted by Mr. Hawley.              able as those of the Erie.
Q. State your present relation to the New    Q. In what respect is that an advantage in
York and Erie Railroad?                      the price of fuel, and how far will it compenA.  am the _eceiver appointed by the autho- sate for the advantage possessed by the New
rity of the Supremeiieourt to take charge of the York Central in the matter of grade and curva.
prop)erty, and manage and run the road.      ture?
Q. How long has it been in your charge as   A. It would give the Pennsylvania Central a
Receiver?                                   decided advantage.
A. Since the 16th of August last.            Q. What do you understand to be their adQ. How long have you oeen connected with vantage over yourselves in the price of fuelthe management of the New York and Erie Rail- what per cent?
road altogether?                              A. I should think their fuel cost them about
A. About 16 years.                         one-half.
Q. Have you been in some relation to enable    Q. Take their line to Philadelphia from the
you to intimately understand the traffic and ope- common points west, are they nearer than your
ration of the road?                         road to New York?
A. I have occupied the office of Secretary   A. Yes, Sir.
until I was appointed Receiver.                Q. Do you know any motive in fixing the
Q. Has that road during later years had a tariff on freights other than to get the largest
severe competition with other lines competing remuneration for the business?
for the traffic to the next 2                  A. I know of none other.
A. Yes, sir.                                 Q. With the liberty to do the best on this
Q. Can you tell from recollection about how  subject, has your road been able to pay so as to
many years since the Pennsylvania Central Rail- get out of the hands of the receiver?
road came into the field as a competitor 2     A. Yes, Sir.
A. I think it is two or three years since they    Q. Will you explain what has been the diffimade their connections complete with the West. culty in placing it in its present position?
Q. So as to reach all Western Points?       A. It has been the diversion of its earnings to
A. Yes, sir.                               o her purposes.
Q. Do you know whether that road is owne    Q. Then it.has not been lossses in business
in'part by the city of Philadelphia and what its  ut financial mismanagement?
relations are to that city?                    A. Yes, Sir.
A. I believe that the city of Philadelphia   Q. Do you understand it to be a sound busiowns one third of its stock.                 ness rule for a road, or individual in charge, to
Q. Do you know whlether that road has the do business at times below cost?
management of and ciintrol of the canals of   A. I believe it is an admitted rule.
Pennsylvania?                                 Q. What is the object of doing business below
A. Yes. sir. The main line of canals through cost under certain circumstances?
the State of Pennsylvania is owned by the   A. One great object would be to retain busiPennsylvania Railroad Company.               ness which in future might be profitable, as merQ. Do you know whether the road is operated chants sometimes sell goods below cost to secure
largely, with reference to getting trade to Phil- and retain a good customer. In the same way
adelphia?                                   a railroad would carry freight two months in the
A. That is the avowed object of the construc- year at a loss, with the fair chance of making a
tion and management of the road.             profit in the same traffic during the other ten
Q. Can you state whether the reduction in the months. Then there is the other reason stated
rates, by competition, have had the effect to ex- by Mr. Minot to maintain the position of the
tend the field from which you draw freights in road with reference to travel.
the west and south?                            Q. To drive those who control other roads inA. Yes, Sir, very largely.                to a frame of mind which will induce it to come
Q. How far in the southwest do you reach in to compensating rates 2
bringing and carrying freights?               A  Yes, sir.




13
Q. I come now to the subject of the compara- the agents of the Pennsylvania would offer to
tive cost of through and way freights, what, in  do it for 79 cents and would take the freight.
your judgment, after all your opportunities for   Q. Suppose you were to come down a little
observation, as to the difference in the cost of the next month, and published another tariff,
transporting through freight and way freight?   what would be the result'I
A. It would be different on different parts of   A. The same small reduction would take away
the road; on some parts of the road the cost the freight.
would not be 25 per cent more; on others, it   Q. How far would you come down before you
would be 50 per cent, and on some portions of would get rid of the pertinacious competition?
the road, say the Delaware division, it would be   A. I would not undertake to say, but we
double.                                      would get down below cost.
Q. With reference to the whole of the busi-   Q. They would probably leave you then?
ness you have done, what is the difference be-   A. If they were compelled to carry it below
tween the through business and way business-  cost, they would give it to us.
what per cent?                                Q. What is your judgment as to the possibility
A. That is susceptible of an accurate answer, of retaining that branch of business under such
which I am not able to give without an examina- a statute in the present condition of competing
tion of the figures.                         lines 2
Q. I mean an approximate amount, not the   A. It could not be retained and would not be
actual?                                     attempted.
A. I should think that the cost of the way    Q. I desire to call your attention to your
freight was 50 per cent greater than the through; power to control the whole of your way freight
but there are a great many elements that enter under such a pro rata tariff. What is your
into the calculation, and it might vary some- judgment as to your being able to carry way
what; I do not propose that the Committee freight within reach of your competing rival at
should understand me as saying that it would  Great Bend?
cost exactly so much more or so much less, but   A. I don't believe we could carry them at all.
that the tendency is larger because of these ele-   Q. Would they be able to fix a low price for
ments, which they can see as well as we.     you at Elmira at that route 2
Q. State those elements of increased cost on    A. They are already carrying freights to Philway freight, chargeable to it, and not chargeable  adelphia at very low prices.
to through freight?                            Q. Could your road do a way business at
A. The elements are the diminished work  figures so low as to enable you to compete for the
done by the motive power, the additional cost Western business, suppose that you pro rated?
of labor, the additional cost of fuel, the additional   A. No, sir, on a road as long as the Erie, a
cost of station expenses, additional track expen- pro rato near the terminus would amount next
ses, track repairs, station-houses, side-tracks and  to nothing.
their maintenance, and the interest on the addi-   Q. Then your conclusion is that you would
tional capital required to do it; these are some have to abandon through traffic 2
of the main items.                             A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you give an approximate estimate or   Q. Then upon way traffic, what would be the
statement of what way stations and fixtures have necessary course that you would have to pursue
cost on that road, which would not be needed if in endeavoring to get an amount of revenue suffiyou did a through business only; I speak of an  cient to carry on your enterprise 2
investment, not of current expenses?          A. The most profitable part of the way busiA. I understand your question to be, this: ness is done on the eastern division nearest New
How much more has been expended on the road  York of course, where the population is greater
to enable it to give facilities for doing a way  and Ihe products sent to market, and the conbusiness than would have been expended if the  sumption of goods and merchandise from the
object had been to do a through business only? city the greatest. That is on all roads the most
Q. Yes, sir, as an investment?             profitable and desirable to preserve. In order
A. I should think from six to eight millions to maintain those rates at anything like a remuof dollars.                                  nerative price, it would be necessary to fix such
Q. Then the interest on the capital would be  prices at the western terminus of the road,
chargeable as current expenses on that account, Dunkirk, so high as to be absolutely more
in addition to other items you have mentioned, than double the rates ever charged by any
wages, &c.?                                 road.
A. Yes, sir.                                 Q. If you fixed them lower at the west end,
Q. Assuming that the prayers of this petition  what would be the effect on the eastern route?
are granted, which requires you by statute to    A. It would run to nothing. If the road terarrange and publish a tariff of prices for freight minated at Port Jervis it would alter things very
per ton per mile, or a pro rata tariff on quantity  much. If there were four roads instead of four
and distance, what would its effect be upon your divisions of one road, it would alter things very
ability to compete in the Western marts for materially.
through traffic with other lines?             Q. Each one could then pro rata for itself?2
A. We should have no power to compete.       A. Yes, sir.
Q. Suppose on the first day of May, you fixed    Q. Are youl able to give a tariff on the milk
a tariff' according to your best judgment, and  trade on the eastern division. Explain how it
sent it to your agents in Chicago, how would  would operate on the actual business you have
they be met when they were canvassing for now?.
freight 2                                      A. The milk is produced and shipped from a
A. If they offered to transport freight from  verys mall portion of territory extending along
Chicago to New York for 80 cents a hundred, the line of the road about 35 miles from near




14
the eastern boundary of Orange county to the    Q. Could they carry small quantities at any
neighborhood of Otisville. Perhaps the extreme price that large quantities would bear?
distance is 35 to 40 miles. The great bulk is   A. The road could not carry it.
shipped from the neighborhood of Goshen and    Q. Because they would not allow others to
Chester. The charge upon milk is seven-eighths carry on your road what they would not allow
of a cent per quart any distance, no distinction you?
being made with regard to the length of the   A. I suppose not.
haul. The milk is carried on a very rapid train,   Q. You are familiar with the general features
run for the especial accommodation of that trade. of the Grand Trunk line of railway. Do you
It is carried at a rate of speed as fast as any know what they are proposing to do and are
passenger train is run on the road. It requires doing in the way of carrying western freight to'the most prompt and regular delivery. A delay Europe?
of two or three hours in the arrival of the milk   A. They are proposing and are actually maktrain costs the whole freight, the milkmen declin- ing contracts to carry frcight from  Cincinnati,
ing to take the milk. The milk is carried under Chicago, and any other points in that region,
the pressure of speed and dispatch all the time. making a through price from from any western
The milk cans are returned to the owners free point to Liverpool, including all charges, all
of charge by the same train returning, it being commissions, free deliveries, and in all respects
run for no other purpose.  The charge upon making a good or a better mode of transportamilk, as I said, is seven-eighths of a cent per tion than is now offered on any other route.
quart which produces 35 cents for a call of 40   Q. How does the rate compare with the rates
quarts, and a can of 40 quarts weighs about 100 to Liverpool by New York?
pounds, milk and can.                           A. The rates are lower than were ever known
Q. The cost of 100 pounds is about 35 cents? before.
A. That charge pro rated to Dunkirk, putting    Q. Are you aware of any attempts or offers to
milk into first class, would make the rate from  bring freights from the West, by that route, to
Dunkirk about $60 per ton, or about three times Boston and New York?
as high a rate as was ever charged, at any charge   A. Boston freight has been carried over the
which would be fixed for bringing in way frei    Grand Trunk, and within a very few days freight
west of Deposit, or perhaps I should say east o   as been taken from New York to Portlanld, to
that point, a milk business at the prices now paid go thence by the Grand Trunk road to Chicago.
would be a losing business and would not pay    Q. By what means is it carried from  New
the cost of transportation, and on ordinary York to Portland?
freight trains it would not be carried at all.  A. By propel!ers-a line of propellers recently
Q. By reason of the time?                  established.
A. Yes, sir. In the summer season, and in-   Q. Did they get that freight by accident or did
deed in all seasons, trains run in the night, and they compete for it?
are run at a greatly increased expense. There is   A. They competed and took it away from
a large amount of labor required in handling the other lines by lower prices.
milk, loading and unloading cars; and carried on    Q. Do you know  the amount of capital inordinary freight trains, milk would all spoil in the vested in the Grand Trunk railway in round
summer season, and necessarily irregularity numbers?
would cause great inconvenience.                A. I think it is sixty millions of dollars.
Q. Have you at hand any document showing    Q. Do you know  the distance by that road
the extent of that trade. Do you remember it from. Chicago to Portland?
per year or month?                              A. I think the distance is about 1120 or 1130
A. During theyear ending December 31, 1859, miles-it is 1133 miles.
we transported on the road over 25 millions of   Q. Do you know the object of building the
quarts.                                       Grand Trunk road?
Q. At seven-elghths of a cent a quart, produced    A. The avowed object, as set forth in their
how much?                                     wn reports and statements, to the Parliaments
A. About $205,000.                          of Great Britain and Canada, is to transport the
Q. Can you state the condition of the milk products of the west to Eng'and on freight lines
trade over the Harlem road, whether it is carried of steamers, by way of Quebec and Montreal,
largely there?                               and to use Portland as a harbor in the winter,
A. I believe it is about the same, and is done when those ports are closed by the ice.
about the same way and at the same price.       Mr. CONKLIN-Who furnished the capital?
Q. Do you know how much territory it spreads   A. Different parties.
over?                                          Mr. CONKLIN-Is it British capital?
A. About as large a territory.  I think the ex-   A. A portion is, sir; a portion is furnished by
treme points are about 40 miles distant.      the bonds of the Company, guaranteed by the
Q. Subject to the same regulations?        Provincial Government, and some of these bonds
A. To the same regulations exactly.         have been guaranteed anew by the British Home
Q. Would it be practicable to continue the Government, and the Provinces released from
express business on your road under a pro rata? the payment of interest for a long time to come,
A. I think not, sir. That is in the assumption and it may be regarded as a free gift to the
that express matters are freight. I judge from a Canadas. of that immense railroad.
remark on the other side [Mr. Cobb] that it is   Q. It has made financial and other arrangenot so contemplated. I supposed it was.       ments, such as indicate that they don't expect
Q. Will you state the reason for that, why it to get interest or dividends on their capital?
could not be carried?                          A. I think so; I have seen nothing in their
A. It is a pro rata in quantities as well as dis- reports, which I have read with care, which
tances.                                       looks to the payment of dividends, while the




15
Governments have assumed the payment of a prices which carried the rates so much below
portion of their debts. They get their capital what steamships of New York had ever thought
at from three to four per cent per annum, which  of carrying freights, that the agent of these lines
is another advantage they have.              said it was useless to contend. I subsequently
Q. Can you state the time since, when New  renewed the inquiries, for then the prices of the
York has out-grown Philadelphia in size?     Grand Trunk road had been given for these
A. I think it was about the time of the com- freights, and I ascertained that propellers runpletion of the Erie Canal, in 1825 or'26.   ning from New York took a small amount of
Mr. COBB-About the time of the completion  freight at rates which left the Grand Trunk about
of the Canal?                               a cent a ton per mile from a few of the ports of
A. Yes, sir. I am not posted up in that mat- the west, not all; I have learned within a few
ter; it is not purely a railroad question.   days that the Grand Trunk are making pricesQ. Is it practicable as a business question to  taking off about 25 to 30 per cent when the St.
carry on a large interior traffic without a corres- Lawrence river opens, making about two-thirds
ponding foreign traffic to balance it?      of the rates of freight now existing between New
A. No sir, it is not.                      York and Liverpool; of course they would abanQ. If by any circumstances or means the don the carrying business to the Grand Trunk
great commodities of this nation could be col- Railway from Chicago, and terminate at Liverlected at other points than at New York, would  pool. There is another thing to which I would
it be possible for New York, under any circum- like to call your attention, with regard to the
stances, to retain the import foreign trade?  greater facilities which are offered by the Grand
A. Of course it could not.                 Trunk road than ever given by By American
Q. These elements must balance according to line. They are given in this way: arrangements
the law of trade?                           have been made by the Grand Trunk road,
A. What has given New York its importance, through their agents in Liverpool and London,
is its power to control the export trade.    to advance upon property shipped by their route
Q. What is your opinion of the facilities, by  from Cincinnati to Liverpool or London; thus,
the Erie canal in early years and the recent su- making a market in these places for this property,
perior facilities, having caused the growth t  instead of having it marketed in New York, as
New York, as compared with Philadelphia an   has been the case heretofore. These bills of lading
Baltimore?                                  and bills of exchange drawn against these shipA. New York, of course, owes its growth to  ments are beginning to form, in New York, an
those facilities; the great shipping interest has important feature in the exchange market. I
been built up by its export and import trade; have seen these bills of lading and exchange, and
t he import trade following the export.       am familiar with the manner in which the busiQ. What would be the effect, in your opinion, ness is done, and it would be exceedingly diffiof another point, say Philadelphia or Portland, cult to make an arrangement as satisfactory from
securing decidedly superior facilities of internal the port of New York
traffic, to New York City?                    Mr. SEYMOUR —Yu spoke of knowing someA. The effect on New York would be to take thing of the milk trade on the Harlem roadaway the export trade from her, and a large what is it worth?
corresponding amount of the import trade; a   A. The President of the road told me that it
case in point is the traffic that has grown up  was worth $260,000 a year.
within the last three months at Portland.      Q. Will you tell the Committee how many
Mr. COBB-That is upon the hypothesis of miles it is from New York on the Erie road to
the Grand Trunk Railroad running to Portland? the first milk station?
A. The effect would be still greater when they    A. About forty-five miles; Turner's is the
took the property to Montreal.               first place where any quantity is shipped, which
Q. What is the effect upon the city of New  is forty-six miles from New York.
York in taking the emigrant business?         Q. The furtherest point is how far?
A. The effect has been felt during the past   A. Otisville, about seventy-six miles.
season; we know that it has diverted a large    Q. Do you charge any difference in price, per
portion of the emigrant business to the Canadian  quart, for a greater or less distance?
and Nova Scotian ports.                        A. No, sir.
Mr. SEYMOUR-Since you have been receiver,   Q. What, in your opinion, would be the effect
have you had any correspondence or negotiation  upon the milk trade of charging a pro rata price
with any line of Liverpool or European steamers upon that milk, as is asked for in this petition?
with the view to compete with this Portland    A. It would destroy the business.
route, with reference to carrying freight over the    Q. Suppose you should fix the price at sevenNew York and Erie Railroad?                 eighths of a cent per quart, for the shortest disA. I have.                                 tance, and greater pro rata for the long distance?
Mr. SEYMOUR-Will you state the object of   A. It would cut it all off-an increase of a
it?                                         quarter of a cent would cut it all off.
A. I made these inquiries with the view to    Q. If called upon to determine the question
ascertain if freights destined for English ports of long and way freights, and settling the policy
could not be carried over the New York and Erie of that road, what course would you take to get
road and be shipped from New York as cheaply  at it?
as from Canada; I commenced that investigation    A. I should collect the best information in my
some three months since; at that time prices power on the subject, and then present a petition
could be given, and lines were ready to make to the Supreme Court, asking them to direct me,
prices at which property could be carried; the. giving my own views in the matter, precisely s
Grand Trunk- Railroad had not been giving any  I go to the Court for any directions, not specifiEastern prices, but shortly after they published  cally laid down in the authority given me.




16
Q. The Court would have to determine that   A. At these points there is a sharp competiquestion for you on the facts before it?  tion.
A. Yes, sir. I should be compelled to repre-   Mr. COBB-What with?
sent my inability with any orders I possessed to   A. At Binghamton with the Delaware, Lackarun the road, and to ask for instructions.  wanna, and Western, and the New Jersey CenMr. COBB-Can you inform me what were tral road to New York. And at Elmira with the
the net receipts on your road from freight for Williamsport and Elmira road.
the current past year?                       Mr. COBB-Is there a canal at either of these
A. I believe that testimony has been furnished places?
the Committee; I cannot give it from recollec-   A. There is at both of them.
tion.                                        Mr. COBB-Do thile canals enter into competiMr. COBB-Can you give them, about?      tion?
A. I would not venture to say; our accounts   A. At Binghamton I do not think it does.
are made up to the 30th of September for the the distance is so much greater by canal. I
year; that is, in the report to the Legislature, doubt if there was no other competition if we
which is on file. They are in a sworn statement should pay much attention to it.
in the hands of the State Engineer, and are ac-   Mr. COBB-You have spoken of the Grand
cessible to the Committee.                 Trunk, and a prospect of a diversion of business
Mr. COBB-What part of these net receipts from the city of New York, and the extent of
were derived from the through summer receipts the business which the Grand Trunk should do;
last year?                                do you mean to be understood that any business
A. I could not separate them so as to answer goes over the Grand Trunk and centers at Portthat question.                            land?
Mr. COBB-Have you any means of know-   A. I do not think Portland is the competing
ing?                                      point. I think the competing point is Montreal
A. I could if an analysis of the whole, for the and Quebec, L which the railroad distance is so
whole year were made; but our accounts are much less. APortland is the port which the
not kept in a way to show that, unless it is an Grand Trunk will use during the winter and
object of interest to ascertain it.       it has been demonstrated that they can compete
Mr. COBB-Have you any general knowledge with all our lines running over our longest railupon the subject without coming to exact fig- road distances; but with the opening of naviures?                                     gation the steamers which run from Liverpool
A. I would not guess the figures when the mat- to Portland will run to Liverpool and Montreal,
ter is susceptible of exact information. If the so that Montreal and Quebec become the compecommittee desire the information I will furnish it. ting points, with 350 miles less railroad transMr. COBB-Can you tell what proportion of portation.
your net receipts?                         Mr. COBB-What is the ordinary transportaA. Yes, sir. That can be given; any informa- tion to the continent, from Montreal, compared
tion of that kind, which is in our power, we will with New York?
give?                                      A. I am unable to say what it has been in the
Mr. COBB-I believe you did not separate past; I can tell what it is to be in the future;
your way freights from your through freightN Ithe prices have been given for the coming sbalast year.                                Bon at 30 shillings per ton from Quebec.
A. Yes, sir, we did. I can only say if the   Mr. COBB-On what articles?
committee desire that information, the receiver   A. Fourth class articles, heavy goods, beef,
has no sort of objection to furnish it.    pork, salt, &c.
Mr. COBB-Your report does not separate the   Mr. CONKLING-Is that ton a forty feet meaway tonnage and the mileage?              surement?
A. I believe they do. The report is made out   A. Yes, sir.
in exact conformity with the requirements.   Mr. COBB-Is that 30 shillings sterling?
Mr. COBB-Do you esteem your road, 460   A. Yes, sir; or it is about 32 cents per hundred
miles in length, competent in the summer to  ounds.
compete with the Central with only 300 miles of   Mr. COBB-What is the ordinary price for
rail, and 150 miles by water?             ocean transportation, from New York, by the
A. Yes, sir.                             same method?
Mr. COBB-Would you esteem yourself better   A. I am giving it by steamer, by sailing vesable to transport freight than the New York Cen- sels it is cheaper; the rates are much higher
tial with that advantage?                 from New York than from Quebec.
A. I think we have advantages over the Cen-   Mr. COBB-Has that long been the case?
tral route. I have seen nothing in my adminis-   A. No, sir.
tration of the road to shake the opinion I had   Mr. COBB-When did the change take place?
previously formed.                           A. Very recently.
Mr. COBB-What would be the advantage of   Mr. COBB-Then it is prospective rather than
your road; how much per ton?              present?
A. That would be coming down pretty close.   A. I think you do not quite comprehend; the
I certainly do not want to say anything deroga- prices from New York have hitherto been much
tory to the Central road.                  higher than that. No prices were so low, by
Mr. COBB-What is your custom from points steam to Liverpool, as those announced by the
like Binghamton, Elmira and Corning, compared Grand Trunk Line. The agents in New York say
with points east of that, as respects the prices? they will not carry at those prices; I mean the
A. I do not know. They are lower pro rata. agents of the principal lines in New York-that
Mr. COBB-What is the reason for that, if they will go out of business at those prices.
there is any?                               Mr. COBB-Is not the route from New York




17
to Liverpool a preferable one than that by Que- British Government to the Grand Trunk Railway
bec? Is it not better for safety?          Company-have you any reason to believe that
k A. There are dififerent opinions about that  there was a political design on the part of the
the rates of insuranlce are no higher.       British Govelrnment?
Mr. COBB-What is the financial credit of the   A. It is avowed in the reports to the British
Grand Trunk Railvay in the city of New York? Parliament, and to the Provincial ParliamentA. I do not know as they have ever appeare  the reports of the Grand Trunk road itself. The
as money borrowers in the city of New York; object stated there is to improve the condition
but the bills of exchange, drawn againstproduc  of the Canadas, to stimulate emigration for
shipped by that route, find ready purchasers.   the occupation of their vacant lands, and the
M1:. COBB-That is not the credit of the Grand building up of their towns and cities. That
Trunk Railway, but the credit of the drawers.   has been publicly avowed ever since the road
A. The credit of the Grand Trunk is involved was begun.
so far as carrying out the'contract is concerned;   Mr. CONKLING-To build up a great indethese bills drawn upon property sent by an irre- pendant power on this continent-a kind ot
sponsible road would not sell.               Vice-Royalty?
Mr. COBB-Is it not within your knowledge   A. That has evidently been hinted at.
that bills are sold every day in New York, pre-   Mr. CONKLING-And interposing insuperdicated upon property from the west passing able barriers to any connection between this
over the New York and Erie Railroad?        country and the Canadas?
A. Yes, sir.                                 A. It would certainly have that tendency;,lMr. COBB-Then it does not hold good with there has doubtless been a great change in the
reference to the one as to the other?       policy in the Home Government towards the
A. Why not?                               Colonies within the past two years-a more liberal
Mr. COBB-Because the one is supposed to be policy; and gentlemen will also observe that the
an irresponsible concern.                    tone and feeling within the past few years, on
A. That supposition is not correct.        the part of Canada towards the Home GovernMr, COBB —Are not all the other canal routes ment, is much better. You hear of no disloyalty,
through the state, and also the Southern routes no dissatisfaction, and so long as money is furdestined to be eclipsed by the Grand Trunk nished as it has been for the last two or three
Railway?                                    years, you will probably not hear of any.
A. To a certain extent it would necessarily;   Mr. CONKLING-The whole policy looks to
under a pro rata it would carry all; under ex- the building up of a great independent power on
isting circumstances, as long as their policy is the north of the United States, which would be
not to do business for a profit, but with a view  able to operate as a sort of check upon this
solely of securing the business, they will get country?
it.                                            A. Yes, sir; it looks like that. I asked a
Mr. COBB-How long will that kind of busi- very intelligent English gentleman, who is largeness last?                                   ly interested in railroad management, and who
A. As long as the financial condition of the has large means of getting information and
Company will permit.                         knowing public sentiment, what his opinion
Mr. COBB-As a business man, do you think was in regard to the Grand Trunk road. His
it profitable for the New York or Southern roads answer was, "that the Grand Trunk must no i
to attempt a competition with that route during be looked upon as a railroad; it was a political
the time they are carrying on that thing?   affair."  Then I said, I suppose you don't hold
A. That depends entirely upon the rates fixed; any of the securities. He said that the securiif the rates prevail that they now propose to ties guaranteed by the Government were very
charge during the coming season, I can say for good, but those that depended upon the business
one that the New York and Erie road don't profits of the road he thought were very dubiwant any of the business at those prices. Other ous. Then in a conversation he explained, givroads may speak for themselves.              ing views similar to those I have mentioned.
Mr. CONKLING —You have spoken of the   The Committee took a recess until seven
extraordinary grants and immunities of the o'clock.




18
SPEECH OF MR. THOMPSON,
Before the Select Committee of the Assembly.
Mr. TIIOMPSON said he had endeavored to    That within these general principles Railroads
demonstrate, by way of protest to these petitions,  were on the same footing as i,,diiduals, in the
as follows:                                    transaction of their business, beir;g governed by
It is plausibly urged that by the low rates the laws of trade, the law of demand and supply
charged from  Chicago or other Western points and by the,usages of business, as it develops,
to New York, the millers of Rochester or Oswego and that these laws of trade like the princeiples
are injured, and that as they are compelled to  of the common law are progressive and changbuy grain in Michigan or Wisconsin, they can- able; changing with the growth and developnot freight it to Rochlester, flonr it, barrel it ment of the country which they intersect, with
and get it to New York as cheaply as the Millers the character of the business and merchandise
at Chicago or Detroit.  Might admit all that which employs them, and that no rule can or
to be true, and would it tllerefore follow that should be imposed by the Legislature to cripple
the Ro)chester miller is thefinal cause of all rail- their useflllness or destroy their income.
roads, that the natural course of trade, the pro-   I endeavored further to show that political and7
ducts of agricultural, the prosperity and enter- moral right ought to back and fortify naked
prise of all the Empires of the New World are to powers before it is exercised to interfere with the
bend to the thrift of Rochester millers, and go natural commerce of corporations, and that in
through the hoppers of Rochester mills? It is a this respect all they should and did stand upon
strange assumption that any business become un- the footilng of individuals, being entitled to the
profitable in our own state by the nature  of same legal protection and the same legislative
things, should be protected and kept up by un- regard. That commerce made her own laws, and
just discrimination against all that may come that any interference with  these, within the
into competition, might be applied equally to our limits and between the states of this conl'ederacy,
mills here, our wool growing. It ought never to wIas contrary to the spirit of the constitution of
be thought of in reference to the great staple of the United States, in direct violation and usurpalife, bread, and especially when for seven months tion of the powers of Congress over commerce.
the Rochester mills has canal at its door and for Operating as effectually and disastrously as the
balance the markets of Portland and Boston, but erection of a custom house at Dunkirk or Buffalo
thus demonstrated by way of protection to these or Oswego or Albaty, to levy a duty on all westpetitions.                                      ern tonnage before it should be permitted to pass
1. The fallacy of the assumption, that railroad  their own borders.
companies have any privileges or exemptions   That suclh a policy would inevitably destroy
from the burdens borne by other trading or mer- what it professed to protect. That such hasty
cantile interests of the state, but on the contrary  ill-advised legislation to protect class interest,
they are subjected to all the burdens of taxation, always recoiled upon the very interest it was deon their real estate, rolling stock and capital, signed to foster, and insteadl of giving each a fair
workinlg our highways, their own rivals, building  chance in the race of honorable,competition
our school llouses and thus aiding our educational ruined both.
interests, and bring the wealth of the states to be   2. That the allegation, that our railroads uninvested in their stocks and bonds to one hundred  justly discriminated between citizelns of our' own
and fifty millions of dollars, penetrating  remote state and citizens of western states was unfounddistricts, and enhancing fourfold the price of lands ed and unjust, the same rates being demanlded of
where they go, building up villages, equalizing e very one shipping froum the same point, and that
the value of property, affording large districts a any discrimination in prices of transportation
valuzable market for wood, aend contributing l)y  have relation simply to distances and net to perthese mneanls as well as by the employment of sons, and tlhat in this respect the way busilless
labor to the wealth and prosperity of the whole and the through business of our railroads were
state.  Grand Trunk exempt fiom a long entire kept on separate footings, and carried on by the
line. I endeavored to establish that it was the companies at different rates of expense.
purpose of the state in former times to foster and    Tha'llt no person could complatin living   on the
encoulrage these public enterprises, by putting  line of the road, while the business was done
theim on a focting of equality with other forms promptly, cllheaply and mlori.- to his advantage
of associatcd wealth and private enterprise, giv- than in any other mode. Thalit the Comprlany
ing onlly such genleral regulation to their modles might be able to carry from  orle distant points,
of operation, as experience had demonstrated for thle same or a less pricc per ton per nlite.
would worklc no injutry to them, and at the same    ThIat the idea of the samile price ptr ton per
time give assurance that no abuses should be mile, is as absurd as if applied to a New York
tolerated whlere tlhe remedy laid within the pur- city omniibus or railroadl car, permitting 6d1 for
view of legislative correction.                tlhe longest ride, and demandinlg a pro rata di



19
milation for any shorter distance, or lighter tion, merchants are enabled to do business with
weight.                                         Iless capital, supporting their fililies, atld emT'ihat the way business of the road. resting on  ploying lalbor, and increasing the growth and
its own footing, and conducted oll a separate resoullrces of the metropolis.
basis, is to be considered aind regulated, if at all,   I had further endeavored to demonstrate the
solely in reference to itself                    fallacy of the allegation, that the canals were,
That it is neither increased nor diminished by  thus deprived of their' legitimate traffic," as
the passage of western merchandise over tile false in principle and unfoullled illfact.
road.  That its expense is regulated by what it   That the State is no imore entitled to the carrycosts, with a small ordinary profit, depending ing trade, as her legitimate and peculiar field of
upon grade of the road, time employed in de- profit. tlhan an individual or a corporation;  and
livering and receiving freight, cost and consump- that she has tile sanle right to elmbark in tile
tion of fuel, freight houses to be built at the  manulfacture of iron, or quarrying of stone, or
stations, labor to be employed along the line, raising of agricultural products, and tiley lay a
most of these being items of cost, not necessarily  tax on all these branches of business for her own
entering into the cost of through transportation, protection, as to comnpel thle railroad to charge
in respect of which, most of it passes on the rates so high, as to tlllhrowthe business they now
road, simply without reloading or handling-  do into tile hands of for'warders on the canals.
being loaded at Cleveland, or Toledo, or Clhi-   If the canals cannot be supported without the
cago, or other western points, from  whence it destruction of all private business that nnmay incomes passing direct to New York, by the Erie, terfere with them, they had better be abandoneJ,
or to Albany on Central.                         and the sooner the better.
That way transportation could not, in the    That it is unfounded in fact, inasmuch as the
nature of things, be carried on as cheaply as that bulk of freight now  carried on the railroads
between distant points —and that to this rule would not pass the canals, if the railroads were
there is no exemption.                           unable to carry it. That all that part of it
T'hat way freight on the ocean, in the coasting which consists of live stock, and dead hogs,
trade, on all our rivers, canals, and railroads, which is made up of light, valuable or perishpays and must pay a higher rate for short dis- able materials, and wllich must get Irapidly to
tances than for longer ones.                     market, would seek other rail lines in getting to
That a locomotive carried usually 30 cars seaboard; and that this trade once diverted,
filled with through freight, with few stoppages, would never return to its former channels.
and no loss of time.  While the salme power on    That if the through freiglht was abandoned, as
a way train, carried not to exceed 20 cars, and  it'would be through the imposition of higher
these only partly filled, with greater loss of  prices, the way freights would require to be
time, and consumption of fuel, and expenses of  largely advanced all along the line, to enable
hiandling.                                       the roads to continue their business;. alld upon
And the only legitimate question before the the Erie Road this would be a calamity without
committee is: Are the rates of freight too ex- any relief, as there is no other means of coinpensive, fromn  any station, on the line of the  munication, which would therefore depreciate
road to New York?                               the price of property all along the line, from the
That any other view of the case, is a prostitu-  increased expenditure required to send  it to
tion of the road and its uses, to operate as a market, and along the Centrall. While it might
linitation and check to the free enterprise of the  aid canal transportation a little in the sumner,
whole country anid anly part of it.              it could not affect freights in the winter season,
That there is no power in the Legislature, to  when the canal is frozenl.  And that unless the
directly prohibit the roads from carrying cars, State desires to attempt a confiscation of the railcominlg on from  other States; and that it is roads, and running theml on its own account (a
equally unjust to compel them  to charge such  worse boon to her than the canals), she cannot
prices, as to effectually exclude them  from the justly interfere in the matter.
roads-thus, doing that indirectly, which they    That a new anid cheaper mode of transportahave no power to do directly.                    tion is never, in a wise government, burdened
That it should be the wish and effort of en- with the expenses of the old and inferior.
lightened statesmanship, to force through our    There could be lno progress in civilization, no
State, and into its metropolis, these streams of  advances inl political or social or commercial life,
western merchandise, and to aid our channels of under such a barbarian rule. We, onl the collncommunication, in diverting it from rival lines trary, reward the inventor with a right to tile
by a fostering Legislature, ilnstead of so crippling  exclusive use of his invention; but of what avail
our own roads, as to drive this trade away from  is his patent, if he must;buy out all tilhe old
us; for it is as absurd to suppose, that the hu- churns, scows anid machinery his invenion is
man heart call carry on its pulsations, sendillg  designed to supersede? And that on this prinblood throughl all its chllannels to the extremities, ciple, the river craft on the Hudson, and all the
as that New York, the mart of the State, can  dock owners along its borders, might apply to
remain wealthy, or retain her influence anid  tile Legislature, to compel the lHudson River
prestige, when these channels of trade are straii- Railroad to pay the price of all property which
gulated or dried up.                             this new mode of transportation has rendered
That cheap transportation on through lines, unprofitable.
is benefit to producer and consumer, and mer-   3. I also attempted to expose the fallacy of thl
challnt alike.                                   allegation that the railroad was carryiing throungh
It costs a less price when delivered in the  freight for less than they can afford.
market, which is divided between production    1. Because the petitioners have and can have
and comnsumption; eaich receiving a portion of no knowledge onl the subject.
that by the regularity of railroad transporta-    2. Because it is safe usually to leave comn



20
panies to be governed by their own instincts and offered, to bring it through our state it is only by
experience, they being better judges of this mat- continued struggle that our railroads retain it at
ter than ally one else can be, and that the benev- all, and that the imposition of any new burden
olence of these petitioners towards the stock- or charge upon it would selld it off oil rival lines,
holders and bondholders of these roads is all equally anxious to divert it; and that once
altogether quixotic and misplaced.              gone from us, as the course of trade is to carve
That the allegation that this loss is made up its own channels deeper and deeper, we could
by excessive way freights is not true, and if true offer under legislative resolutions no means for
would, in summer aid, and not injure the canal; its recovery.
and that it is equally unjust to the company to    That there was no less than eight different
charge it as the reason of advanced rates on lines of commlunication from the southwest, to the
winter transportation, as                       sea coast south of us, and two rival lines north of
1. The canals do not thus conflict with them; us, all in eager competition for this trade, which
and,                                            will bear no burdens it caln avoid, but will seek
2. The actual cost of winter transportation is such market as it can get at the cheapest.
increased in about the same ratio.  And that no    That the products of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois,
person along the line was compelled to delay his have natural and feasible outlets, through the
shipments for winter transportation, and if so, he Pennsylvania Central and the Baltimore and
ought, in justice, to pay the necessarily increased Ohio Rail Road, which are fostered and encost.                                           couraged by the States; and run lines of vessels
4. I endeavored, moreover, to expose the folly  from those cities to New York, carrying up coal,
that " parties all along the line lhad yielded equal and wood and lumber, and take freight back as' rigllts for the erection of railroads, and were ballast, or at nominal prices in return.
"entitled as a consideration to be placed on the    That produce, and pork and beef on the Ohio
"footing of through freight."  That as these and at Chicago, goes either to the river for prelines had conferred benefits and benefits only on paration, slaughter and packing, and so round
the country at large, no one had yielded any- by water to the seaboard, or down the lakes, and
thing, his land was increased in value; his pro- through the Grand Trunk Rail Road to Boston
ducts found a market, cities and villages and  and Portland.
towns were increased and built up, and other   That Chicago has, in fact, opened a direct trade
certain places and taverns on the canal might with Liverpool, sending one vessel, the Dean
suffer, it was only the same thing that happened  Richmond, in 1856; in 1857, 13 vessels, and in
to the old turnpike and some of its villages by  1858, 40 vessels.
the construction of the canal.  They yielded    That Boston is on the wing, through all the
nothing, the course of trade retreated and left northwest, soliciting and paying a premium  on
them high and dry.                             this freight.  XVe sit here deliberating  whether
I endeavored, moreover, to demonstrate the ab- we shall not notify them  we shalt tax.  I am
surdity of pro rata freight charges, having refer- half suspicious, the finger of Boston is on these
ence to long lines and freights out of the State. petitions on your table.  If they had paid tell
Tllhat with efficient agencies, now employed in  thousand dollars for them, they are worth it all
all western cities and the inducements at present I if they accomplish what they desire.
TESTIMONY OF J. W. BROOKS.
Mr. J. W. BROOKS, President of the Michigan    Q. You were President of that line during the
Central Railroad, then gave testimony as fol- time you spoke of?
lows-Mr. Thompson conducting the examina-    A. I constructed the Michigan Central road,
commencing in 1846, and was not President of
tion:                                           the Company until some time after 1850-I do
Q. Where do you reside?                      not recollect the year-perhaps it was 1853 or
A. At Newton, near Boston.'54. Previous to that I was local manager at the
Q. What is your business?                    west, and constructor.
A. I am  President of the Michigan Central   Q. Are you acquainted with railroad transRailroad Company.                               portation and the movement of freight and pasQ. How long have you been in the railroad  senlgers on those western roads, through to the
busless?                                      east, and the general course of business?
A. Something over 20 years-between 20 and    A. I am, as far as a person who had control
25 years.                                       of one of the long lines would be likely to have,
Q. Will you state where your stations have  sir.
been during that period-the points at which    Q. As a manager of a road I ask you this quesyou have been located?                         tioii: what is the difference in the cost of railroad
A. For the last 16 or 17 years I have been  transportation of through freight as compared
connected with the Michigan Ce-itral Railroad, with way freight?
and the roads running from it to Missouri; but   A. Almost every road would present a somemy attention during that time has been confined  what new case. Butthere is no doubt that upon
to that line.                                   all roads it costs a good deal more to trans



21
port thelocal than the through freight. On some deavored to describe, which generally rendered
roads the difllrence in the two classes would be it desirable for long lines to seek distant busivery much greater than on the others. There liess.
are so many causes that affect it more in sonme   Q. You have stated the occasion of this differcases and less than in others, one can hardly fix ence; will you now state the cost of winter
a stated per cent diflbrence.  The cars in the one transportation onl these Northern routes, the
case do not run as full as in the other, nor do principal lines, the New York Central and the
the trail;s take as many cars. The maximum  New York and Erie, as compared with the cost
number of cars of a full train is about thirty. in summer.
The local train takes one or two on and picks   A. We all know and feel that there is a good
others up on the route, as it picks up and drops deal of difference between the winter and sllucars on the roate, the average will differ fomn  muer expense of workinglines of railroads. There
station to station. I have generally supposed  is generally very much more difference than apthat more money could be tmade at two cents pears in the monthly figures that make up the
per mile per ton on long business, than at three  cost; the rigidity of the railway, caused by freezcents on local. That must make a difference of ing, of course would wear out rails much more
50 per cent.  Some roads will make that figure rapidly.  They may be fresh in fall, and partismaller.  There are cases where it might be ally fresh in the spring, but they are not taken
larger. There is entering into that question a out until the wear of years completes their desphase that is not always thought of. New busi- truction, when they have to be taken out in the
ness is generally long business.  New business regular course of repairs; winters vary very
can be done somewhat cheaper than old business. much. Then in regard to the rails, I will cite an
If you will allow me to go into an explanation I example in the Lowell Railroad. When the rails
will try to make myself understood in that re- were first laid they were laid on stone, which
gard. The fixed business, for which the road is made the track as rigid as if frozen; it was found
built, has fairly charged upon it the whole ex- that the rails and machinery wore out the iron,
pense of the operation of the road. The fixed which was bolted on the stone sleepers; the rails
business, which may be regarded as legitimately  wore out quickly by reason of the rigidity with
belonging to the line, is that which the public which the track was laid; they took them up and
depends upon it to perform, and for which it inserted a wooden block between the rail and the
was built. There are certain classes of expenses tie, to give them an amount of elasticity which
connected with the management, not incidental would relieve the rail from the rigidity. I supto the increase of business; as, if you please, pose that state of things is incident to rails frozen
the decay of the perishable materials connected up; but winters are different. Within a few
with its structure. The roadway, the ties, the years, I do not recollect the time, we had two
care of its bridges, its culverts, its drainage, succe.sive winters during which I do not believe
ditches, the sliding of its banks, the wooden ma- many roads in this climate made any money at
terial connected with its rolling stock. The all. We, almost all of us, did not find ourselves
decay of that goes on as much in a smaller as in clear of the damage until the succeeding July or
a larger business. There is a certain class of August; thatis, our machinery went into the winagencies connected with it, not influenced by the ter business in better repair than they were subsegreater or less quantity of business. All the quently, until the following July or August; so
principal agents at the extremities of the line, that the expense of it remained until the fall
these are not influenced in any appreciable de- business following. We were pretty busy on the
gree by new business brought upon the line. I Michigan Central in getting ready and repairing
have generally supposed that perhaps nearly machinery, injured by the hard winter service.
one-third of the expenses of railway manage- Then there are other winters which are far differment, was not increased by the increase of busi- ent. We never have a winter but what the track
ness. Therefore, I would say, that if the total freezes, but there are winters when we are not
cost of working the road or business was a cent troubled so much with snow, so that the opera.
a ton per mile ([ state that not as representing tion of the road during the winter season varies
the cost, but as a mere example), then new busi- in the difficulties that are attendant upon it with
less could be done for two-thirds of a cent, and the severity of the season. I speak now of the
the other trade would not be affected by increas- latitude in which we are. North of New York it
ed tonnage.  It will follow from that that if new  is very different. South of New York, where
business is taken at the exact cost of the cur- the climate is considerably changed, it might
rent business of the line, there is a profit inci- be still worse than it is here; though I do
dent to that business, which if you take the whole not know when we get down to the freezing
business at that cost, your line is worthless.  In point, how much additional influence it has upon
my own judgment I have always regarded that it. Of course, in the south, this does not amount
theory and have sought new business as the exi- to anything as their winters are not severe.
gency of trade seemed to make it expedient.  If   Q. As the result of this action upon the rails,
we had current trade one way and empty cars the the wear and tear of machinery and the repair of
other, we would take freight at a very low rate, track, what, in your judgment as a railroad exto fill up the empty cars. There are seasons of pert, is the average difference in the cost of winthe year when our rolling stock is unemployed, ter and summer transportation?
that we would enter it upon any business at these    A. I think I could only give it as a matter of
low rates to make something out of it.  The new  judgment; I have never given the subject an aebusiness thus sought, not being legitimate busi- curate investigation.
ness belonging to the road, and for which tho    Q. That is all we expect.
road was not constructed, has been almost al-   A. We, of course, are compelled to run smaller
ways taken at rates which are near the cost of trains in the winter; we are liable to the difitmovement. It is that element which I have en- culties of frosty stock, and we do less servic




22
with the same stock. I think few people would  had agreed upon, in the hands of our agents,
place it as low as one-third; I think I should  leaving them  no discretionary power to go beplace it at that figure;  I think I could make  low then; we found, immediately after this armore money at two cents in the summer than  rangement was made and the price settled upon,
three in the winter.  You can calculate, very  the traffic began to lessen and divert; it grew
nearly, what can be done in the summer; the  out of small changes, sometimes cutting fifty
wilter has surrounding the business so many  cents under price for a passenger to New  York,
risks that trainls have to be lighter, everything  or if that did'int answer the purpose, a dollar.
has to be handled more delicately, and neces-  We had a great deal of difficulty growing out of
sarily greater destruction and damage ensues. this chargilng of rates, and I finally gave orders
The difficulty of estimating the damage is, that to ask the price which was asked by the other
a great deal of the relairing is done during the  route. From  that tinle rates were steady,; no
ensuing season; but we know that the rails are  advantage could be taken by reducing rates, behammered in the ends, anld early in the spring  ctause thle other was changed at the same hour.
we hlave to take out a multitude of rails; it is That settled the question definitely.
difficult to measure the damage in dollars and    Mr. CONKLING —This practice to which you
cents.                                          refer, not only enables you to retain your share
Q. I ask you, as a distinct question, what an  of the business, but it operates as a regulator of:advantage has the Southern over the Northern  the rates?
routes in the winter?                             A. It keeps the rates steady; there was not
A. I do not see if you get south but what the  gain to be made; for if one man lowers, he knows
Southern routes have  an  advantagae  exactly  his neighbor is ordered to lower at the same
equal to the inconvenience and extra expenditure  hour; so that it is a question only whether he
of the Northern  lines, caused by their cold  will carry a passenger at a dollar loss, for of
climate.  Whatever measures the one, will course lie gets no more passengers than if he had
measure the other; if we had not winters here  adhered to the rates..we would be free from  all this inconvenience    Q. You say, in regard to freight, that the road
and expense; they hlave a sort of advantage  having the fixed tariff would lose the freight;
beyond that, which generally would not be esti- why'would it lose it?
mated very highll, but I think it is worth some-    A. What I said in regard to passengers, will
thing; I should regard it, in long lines of com- apply to freight. I look upon these two as being
petition, as an advantage; the current of their afficted by the same causes; but one in a greater
business is not disturbed by the exigeJiies of degree than the other. I instanced the passenger
our line of service; therefore it is easy for them   question because it is one in dwhich I had had
to take and retain business at certain prices the  experience.  Passengers will not leave at once
long traffic, that would be regarded as valuable  the line on which they have been accustomed to
in  the carrying  business against competing  travel, because of a slight reduction of price on
lines.                                          a competing line; but if the reduction is adhered
Q. In case of a stated published tariff by any  to for a long time, they will gradually leave it
of the roads, not variable for a month, and pub- for the line which has the less price. But with!ished throughout the east and west, what would  regard to freight, it makes very little difference.be its effect on the through business?        with?. the owner of property, whether it is carried
A. I think that question almost every one can  in a red car or a brown one, so that it gets to
judge of; it is a sort of mixed commercial and  market in a stated reasonable time. There is not
carrier question; it may be said to be not very  much difference in the time in which freight,different from the case of certain merchants on  reaches the market on any of these lines. There,one side of a street having their prices fixed and  is less than a day's travel in the distance of car-:nchangeable, while on the other side they were  riage, between the longest and the shortest one.
not so restricted; I should think that the people  The time on freight has little or nothing to do
on the other side would do the business for that with it.  While I know  that the passengers
month certainly; in the long traffic we all meet would leave a line gradually, I have no doubt
hi the centres of trade-the western sources of that freight would leave it en masse at once. I
business (I speak of centres as being those  know when we had an arrangement which we
points where, from the number of railroads cen- could not change, and the other parties could
tering from the interior, make them  common  change, we could not get any of the other parties'
points), what we call common points, points  traffic, and they did get some of ours. You canfrom which we reach the seaboard markets. If not get freight from a given point unless you
any one of these several lines puts out its rates  transport it as cheap as any one else. There is
as fixed and unchangeable for a month, the  another reason which affects passengers to a cerothers would certainly do the business, unless  tain extent, so long as the passenger has business
the rate was fixed at a point where no profit to do along the line, a half dollar nor even a
could be made; then I think the line having the  dollar would change the passenger from one line
fixed rate would do the business. I have had a to another; but freight has no such stopping
little experience on that question in relation to  necessity.
the passenger business; I cannot recollect the    Q. In your judgment, as a railroad man, can
year, but it was very soon after we opened our the way and through business be done at the
inle to Chicago.  The Michigan Southern line  same rates practicably?
were entering into competition for the long    A. I have no doubt about its b'eing impractio
traffic for passengers; we all had our offices in  able. There may be a good many definitions of
the sources for business along the west and  the word impracticable, but as it is generally
northwestof Chicago; we thought we did wisely  understood the business could not be conducted
in playing a very conservative part in regard to  with any profitable result; the two are widely
cutting rates; we placed fixed rates, which we  different in their character. One of theum, to be




23
done at all, situated as these lines are, has got no doubt it will. They have built, without any
to ble done under the same elasticity on one line question, the best line of railroad on this contiwhich the other has, it would very much derange nent. A line that can work the cheapest, setting
business to have that changed every day or capital aside, which costs them  only three or
every hour. I do not think there is ally profit four per cent a year, they have got relieved from
of the long business that amounts to much if their bonded indebtedness, having received large
you have got to connecct it in any Way with the presents from the home government and releases
local business.  You have got to use the long from liens and taxes, and it is prepared to do
business to m tke it profitable, to fill up the gaps this long business at a rate leaving but a modeas it were. You must rely upon the local busi- rate margin to the shortest line between the
ness to a great extent as a steady business, run- western markets and the seaboard.  They will
ning all the year pretty nearly equal as the busi- regulate the price, without any question, quite as
ness of the country runs.                       efficiently as any other line trading between the
Q. What effect would result, in your judg- seaboard and the west.
ment, to the way freights if the through freights   Q. If the through business was taken from
were abandoned?                                 the New York roads, would it, in your judgA. On different roads it would bring about a ment, go to the canals or what other channels
different result.                               would it take?
Q. Take the two lines of New York, the Hud-   A. I think that would depend to a very conson River and the Harlem?                      siderable extent upon how long the experiment
A. Where there was no competition which of turning it away from the New York lines was
would so regulate the local prices as to put it carried on. I think that the first, second, third
out of the power of the railroads to make any classes of freight would all take the other lines.
more money out of them than they were at any  The competition between the roads is for these
particular period making, they would of course three classes. The fourth class is divided bebo interested to add to the local rates as much  tween the roads and the canals. The property
as they lost on the through.                    represente:l by the first three classes would
Mr. COBB-Will you explain that again?       scarcely any of it go to New York by the Grand
A. I say that where there are no local rates Trunk road; I think it would go to Boston. all
which could not be controlled beyond the will of it that went by the Grand Trunk road, and
of the company by some competing interest, then that the three classes going to New York would
the local rates, if members of the directory had Igo by the southern roads, they being much the
any regard for the stockholders, as trustees of i shortest. I should  think that the wholesale
their property, would have to raise the local business, the importing business for the western
rates to compensate for the loss of doing no cities, would come from Baltimore and Philadelthrough business. I cannot conceive that through phia, because it would cost as little to put it
business can be done without the same elasticity there as in New York, and thence convey it to
attaches to the New York roads that would at- the west. It would cost less from London and
tach to the roads in opposition to them, and that, Liverpool to Chicago and St. Louis, than it would
if taken away, I do not see how long business cost to go through New York. The fourth class
can possibly be retained.  If the long business would be divided; a part of it would go on the
is not retained either the company must lose a canal and a part on these other lines; as whereconsiderable portion of its revenues or it must ever the second and third class goes to a certain
derive them from some other source. I have no extent, to a very large extent the fourth class
doubt, on the Michigan Central road, if we lost goes. A good deal of the fourth class, that now
our through business, we should raise our local goes upon the canal, would take these extreme
business at once. We could not afford to do local southern lines. The importations would work
business so cheaply if the sources of revenue in- their way to those cities.  A  portion of the
cident to the through business were cut off. fourth class, that now  goes by canal, as well as
Therefore it follows, that the profits made on a portion of the fourth class that goes on the
long business does strengthen the company to a rail, would go on these extreme southern routes,
certain extent; enabling it to do its local busi- and the other portion of the fourth class thai
ness at better rates.                           goes now by rail on the N. Y. roads, would take
Q. Can a competing route with a longer line fix the canal.
low prices for you, and yet not be able to carry    Mr. CONKLING —How  would it affect the
as cheap?                                      transportation of passengers?
A. I have said before that all of the lines   A. The passenger trade follows the freight.
freighting between common points must carry at If the trade increased to the southern cities the
the same prices. There is no question about that. passengers would follow  more promptly the
Let any company, or any line of companies, first, second, and third class freight than they
charge a higher rate from  Chicago  to New  would the fourth; because it requires more care
York their rival lines will take the  busi- to trade in each of these classes, more personal
ness.  The question as to how  much profit attention; but there is no doubt that the passelnthe rival lines will mnake on that is a ques- ger trade would wear away with the freight,
tion of their own. I will instance an extreme except in the case of passengers traveling for
case.  The Grand Trunk Railroad is taking cot- pleasure-passengers making short runs in the
toll from  Memphis, far south of the southern  simpmer time to watering places, &c.
lines in competition for westeril business to the    Mr. CONKLING-What would be the effect
English factories. They say they make money  of that policy on the city of New York?
on it, whether they do or not, the policy of the    A. I do not see why it would not have the
British government to work a large portion of same effect upon the city of New York that it
the traffic of the Western States through the Pro- would have upon the roads-it would work the
vinces will probably be persevered in. I have trade into the southern cities. We had some




24
experience in that matter during the famous St. element of the difficulty that has been introNicholas compact, which has some fame as well duced within the last three years, making, with
as notoriety. The little experience we had at the other three, four elements of competition. I
that time, showed the effect upon my own road suppose that will grow up to be one, for I have
as well as the roads hele.r  It was very marked understood they were pretty successful. The
in the change which it made in the coffee trade, trips that were made I believe amounted to
which was a large trade in the west, and the somethinig like thirty or forty vessels.
coffee trade was looked at carefully to see what   Mr. TIIACHER-In 18-59 
effect it was having. We found that a consider-   A. Yes, Sir. I do not know the number; I
able portion of the coffee, which had formerly  followed them  up until they reached twenty,
been shipped to New York, and thence to the when I lost track of them; I presume somebody
west, went to B:ltimore. It wenet then over the here can give the. number exactly.
Baltimore and Ohio road, to the Ohio river,   Q. What induced the change in the policy of
down the river to Cario, up the Mississippi to the New York roads, and the conflicts they had
Galena, and then turned eastward into the inte- to retain that western business? How  did it
rior of Illinois; it went entirely around us. A  arise?  State the facts.
few cents on a hundred pounds, amounting to   A. The first conflict-guerrilla warfare-in the
about $3 a ton, of course turned that business. shape of competition.  Such competi ion alThat was one of the articles of the fourth class, ways arises when new elements are brought in,
and I do not see why all the articles of that until some settlement is made; and the St.
class would not follow in the same way, if treated  Nicholas compact was the first permanent settlein the same manner. I am  sure the western  ment of the difficulties; or rather, it was underimporting man would feel it so at once, and stood to be permanent. In that, the Northern
others would follow.                          lines were out-generaled entirely; they conceded
Q. Did the New York roads have a fixed tariff to the Southern lines because of their increased
prior to 1858?                               nearness of those States to the interior-a difA. They generally did, sir.                ferent rate to the Southern cities-so strong a
Q. You state that two or three dollars a ton difference as to have a serious effect on the trade
turned that freight from you?                of those cities. We krow that trade began to
A. I do not recollect the rate. I recollect the move to and from those cities in a rapidly ineffect of it was so strong against these New York creasing ratio-that merchants trading with New
and Northern lines, our own among the rest, that York began to get their stocks through other
the compact was destroyed. It was found ne- cities, and that the change was increasing so
cessary; we could not live under that state of rapidly that it had the effect to break up the St.
things. It astonished us by the promptness Nicholas compact. It was decided that the New
with which the goods began to change their York and other Northern lines should fix their
routes.                                       rates so as to be as near to the west as PhiladelQ. You stated that prior to 1858 they had a phia and Baltimore.
general fixed tariff?                           Mr. CONKLING-What were the general
A. Yes, sir, prior to then the elements of the terms of that compact?
competition which changed the entire character   A. The general terms were, to carry freights at
of the long business, had not begun to work. uniform  rates-at stated rates, which  we
There was not then the competition between.agreed upon with a difference.
Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York that ex-   Mr. CONKLING-A sort of pro-rata arrangeists now. I will say, in regard to the Baltimore ment, was it?
and Ohio, and the Pennsylvania Central, that   A. The lines pro-rata-that is-let me exthey have the same objects to subserve to fulfill plain. Though that question does not enter into
their destiny. They were built with city and the case, the Pennsylvania Central practically
state capital, to subserve a certain city and state owns the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago
policy, and unless they could secure a liberal Railroad. It is all one with them; and whether
portion of the trade of the West to these cities, they pro-rated with that road is a fact that exists
they would not fulfill the destiny for which they in their own counsels.  But their connection
were constructed. An investment of capital for with the west forced other lines to make comrevenue was not the moving cause for the con- binations to work against them, as they had one
struction of those lines. They are more severe line working straight through to the seaboard
competitors for the trade of the West, than it would not do for other lines to have divided
they would be if they were built solely with the counsels. It resulted in the lines generally runview to revenue, and of course they do not re- ning to the Northern States, froni the seaboard
gardl the procurement of revenue except as inci- to the west, dividing the receipts of the busident to their general arrangement.            ness, pro rata per toll, per mile, with some small
Q. What lines of communication to the far trifling allowances for ferriage, to the persons
West have been completed since 1857?         keeping those ferries; and with these exceptions
A. We regard all the elements introduced  it is a general pro rata.
since then as incident to the three lines, the   Q. Is or is not one main President of both
Pennsylvania Central, the Baltimore and Ohio, roads from Philadelphia to Chicago, by way of
and  the Grand Trunk railroads.  There is the Pennsylvania Central, Fort Wayne and Chianother branch of business opened up to the cago roads?
West, which will probably grow to great im-   A. One man is President of the line from
portanice pretty soon, I do not know how ex- Philadelphia to Chicago-one set of agents speak
tensive it was last year, but the year before a for the manlagement of the whole, and one man
large number of vessels loaded on the lakes for manages the whole line, so far as the public is
Liverpool, and returned with freights of nier- concerned.
chandise for the West.  That is the fourth    Q. You say that was broken up in conse



25
quence of this large traffic moving to the west,    Mr. CONKLING —How  many are there in
leaving the lines which it formerly followed?  Chicago.
A. Yes, Sir.                                 A. There may be four or five contending inQ. What was the result of the breaking up of terests in Chicago: the north side of the lake
that compact?  How did it effect the trade and  line, the south side of the lake line, Pennsylvacommerce that went there?                   nia Central, Baltimore and Ohio, and the Grand
A. We all felt, when it was broken up, that Trunk lines. But each one of these is m'ide up
we were to get thence onwards our legitimate  of several interests.  The New York Central
share of the business again.                 road is connected with the Great Western, North
Q. Was that the effect, or not  Shore, South Shore, Michigan Central, and
A. I have no doubt that it was the effect. I Boston and Worcester lines. All these interests
recollect that during the last two years there  are represented. Some of the larger interests
has been less business, and we have all felt that employ separate agents, while some join towe didn't get quite our share.               gether in maintaining an agency.
Q. But you have got your relative share 2    Q. Is it the habit of the freight agents on these
A. Yes, sir. But we got less in proportion  southern lines to demand a uniform rate for the
than we did before these new carriers came into  transportation of freight?
the market.                                    A. There is a sort of effort of the agents of
Q, You stated something about what it was the different lines to agree upon some rate; from
that created this warfare; state whether or not day to day some one cuts down the price once or
it was the insisting by the southern lines on  twice a day, and then the others come down.
carrying out that compact, and sticking to it.   Then they have a conforence. The interest of
A. Yes, sir; and the refusal by the northern  these lines have to be put into the hands of these
lines to do it.                              persons who act with sufficient promptness to
Q. The southern lines understood that if that keep them strait.
compact was carried out, they would get the    Q. Suppose one line was unable to drop their
trade to the West 2                          prices?
A. I think they didn't appreciate that more    A. I think it would be gratifying to the others.
fully than we did who lost it.               They would get along a great deal more harmloQ. Will you state what course of action the  niously.
southern roads adopted to get the trade again.   Q. They would lose the business, would they
A. They are just in the same position in  not?
which we now are. All these long lines have    A. They would do no more business until they
agencies and offices established in the great got out of that fix.
centres of business in the West. By centres, I   Q. And the others would eat them up?
mean those cities and large places where busi-   A. They would take the business.
ness concentrates, by having a good many in-   Mr. CONKLING-In crossing high elevations
terior lines reaching to those points. Wherever by railroad, how fiar does the diminished cost of
there is a considerable quantity of business to  conducting trains down descending grades serve
be got at the West, all these competing avenues to compensate for the augmented cost of ascendof trade have their agencies established, solicit.. ing grades?
ing business with a good deal of industry and    A. I think it would be found that nearly all
perseverance.                                the saving rests in the simple economy in fuel.
Q. State what means they have in the western  When you get to the top of a grade you cannot
States, and New York city, in the east, for the  get any more cars to go down the grade to lessen
procurement of frieight and passengers.      the cost of the service and men connected with
A. As far as New York is concerned, they  the train, brakemen, enginemen, &c.; there is no
have, on Broadway, a very large number of means of lessening this per car per ton. You do
offices. I do not know how many. I should  save fuel. The strength of the southern lines
think there were ten or fifteen offices belonging  in overcoming their mountain grades consists in
to these lines, and in some other parts of the  the cheap cost of their fuel. They use coal at
city less expensive ones; and there are some in  a very insignificant cost. I think it is inside of
Boston, in a less degree, however, because there  a dollar per ton; Mr. Hubby says that, on the
is less business. And so in the cities at the Baltimore and Ohio road, the cost is about seventy
West; at all the large places they have offices cents a ton. A ton of coal is more efficient than
established  and  maintained, with  solicitors a cord of wood; and if it can be used in such a
who communicate directly with the owners of way as to secure the saving of all heat it is as
freight.                                     valuable as two cords of wood; but it has not
(. Making personal application to the owners been so economized. We pay from $2 to $2.50
of freight?                                 a cord. They get the same amount of fuel in a
A. Yes, sir; making contracts for it con- ton of coal at seventy cents. With that advanstalltly. I should think that such a city as tage thedisadvantage of theirgradesis overcome,
Chica(go might have, perhaps, no less than twenty  which places them in a condition to compete, to
men, whose sole business it is to confer with the  a certain extent, with the three Northern lines.
owners of freight, and endeavor to make con-   Mr. CONKLING —Is it your opinion that a locotracts for it-for the different interests.   motive engine can conduct a no more heavy
Mr. COBB-They are denominated drummers, train down a descending grade than it can haul
are they not'l                               up an ascending grade? that each engine has
A. Perhaps that is what they would be called. got to get up the grade with its load? do you
Mr. THO NIPSON-Fifers, too!                know of no practice of using increased locomoA. They generally act as if they were the tive power?
owners of the road, and controlling the State in    A. Yes, sir. If the grades are isolated so that
which they reside.                           they can manage it, they, of course, economize




2G
very much. Some roads have grades of a greater i the shortest roads, we get the highest prices, and
length, incident to long districts; where they  on the long lines a less price, for the same aroccur thus frequently it has not been found  tidcles, in the same train, at the same time with
practicable to use this assisting power. I do not Ihe articles on the short line.
know how the Baltimore and Ohio road is man- j  Q. Does the Grand Trunk Railway connect at
aged, but I think it is used there very little, be- I Detroit?  If so, how-what are its connections?
cause they have long grades, and not manly of   A. Temporarily, the Grand Trunk has got a
these difficulties.  1 think that the great saving  narrow gauge fromn Port Huron; the wide gauge
on those lines is in the cost of fuel, rather than  ends at Port Sarnia, on the east side of the river.
in the advantage of the descenldilg line.       Port Huron is on the west side, opposite-and
Q. Has not the shortness of the route some- the narrow gauge commencing there comes down
thing to do with it?                           to Detroit.  It was in contemplation, when it
A. The fact that it brings them  down to a was building, to have a broad gauge; but as
measure of miles in length, is a measure of its they were very short of stock they laid a narrow
capacity for service.                          gauge. They have leased locomotives for the
Q. Can all roads that compete from common  line, and the cars of the Michigan Central, and
points, gel the same pro rata per mile?        the Michigan Southern roads go up to Port
A. No, sir. A moment's thought will show  Huron   The transhipment is there effected by
you it could not be done. These roads most all ferry, as is the case here; they take the cars
carry freight, as I have said before, from  com- across so as to ship the fieight from  car to car;
mon points to market, at the aagregate price, instead of a ferry boat they have a long boat
and not at the same price per ton per mile. It upon which the cars are taken across. But it is
is the same aggregate price from source to mar- in contemplation to have a broad gauge to Deket. The longer line will get less per ton per troit; they have built transfer houses at Detroit,
mile than the shorter.  For example, from Clli- preparatory to the transfer business, when the
cago to New York, over the New York Central broad gauge shall be brought there. They are
and Michigan Central, they will get more per now discussing the question as to the advisability
ton per mile than they will get by the Baltimore  of putting a broad gauge into Boston over one
and Ohio; and from  Cincinnati to New York  of the lines from Portland, and putting a third
they will get more per ton per mile, on the  rail on the road to Chicago, so as to haul broad
Baltimore and Ohio road, than they would on cars from Chicago to Boston.
the New York Central. In the one case, the    Mr CONKLING-Is there machinery employBaltimore and Ohio forms a part of the long line, ed at any of these termini for the loading of
and the New York Central a part of the shorter, cars?
and, in the other case, the reverse, It follows    A. It is all done by manual labor.  Where
that the same kind of freighlt must be carried at grain is carried in bulk it is generally run into
different rates by each road-at higher rates the car, afterwards shoveled out of the cars into
when they form part of the short line at lower pits below, and then elevated in the usual way.
rates when they form part of the long line. The Beyond that I don't know  of any machinery
New York Central cannot say that they will take  being used.
a barrel of flour over their line in the long    Q. If the rate on the New  York roads was
traffic, in come tition with the other railroads, fixed at so much per ton per mile, what would
at the same price per mile as the others. In  be the effect on long freights?
some lines it forms a part of the long competing    A. It would depend upon how frequently that
route, and in others, a part of the short com- rate could be changed. If it could be changed
peting route, and they have got to take their every day it would be better.
proper pro rata share.                            Q. Suppose it could  be changed  once a
Q. So that, in your judgment, it is impossible  month?
to apply that theory in practice for the trans-    A. It would give twenty-nine days of that
portation of freight on the longer lines of road?  month to the other lines, unless the rate on that
A. It has been strongly for my interest. that line was so low that it afforded no profit; then
that practice should be gone into at the North, they would have their share of the business. I
in connection with the New York Central line from  believe I have answered that question once beChicago. We have felt as if we formed a part fore.'    i
with this New York Central road, of the short-   Mr. THOMPSON-Not exactly in that shape,
est line for that traffic.  If we could have pro- and only incidentally.
cured the New York Central road to take flour   Mr. BROOKS-You asked me that last ques.
from  us as cheaply as they could take it from  tion. I have not alluded to one point in relation
Cincinnati, it would have been greatly to our to it, which has just comeinto my mind. If the
advantage; but we have never felt justified in  New York roads charge for the long and local
asking for that. So far as the Michigan Central fieight one rate of transportation, it would inline is concerned, we have always treated the troduce to the western business, that comes by
question in that way. We have taken flour water, a new terminus. As a matter of course,
cheaper to Detroit when it came from St. Louis, it would put Oswego in the position of Buffalo.
than when it came from  Kenosha, Galena or If you had to put the price by rail per ton, per
Milwaukee; because, when we go to St. Louis, mile to Oswego, at the same rate as to Buffalo,
they have a shorter line to take their freight to of course the water-bound business would come
market, running  east,  northeast, than ours. to Oswego. The New York Ceitral road, as now
We folmn part of the longer route, and we carry  regulated, has the power to make its long busieverything cheaper to the market than freight hess, the principal business-has power to put
which came from the Northwest.  We must do business on the long end of its line instead of
that, or else abandon our St. Louis business. So having it cut through in the middle. If the
I may say with regard to all points that are on power to protect itself fromn inroad at the side is




27
lost, water-bound business would come to Oswe- competitors, they exercise no influence upon
go, and the west half of their line would be of that. As the canal has been the regulator of
no use for the purposes of long freights.    prices, so if the canal tolls are lowered so as to
Q. What is the effect of these low long freights bring rail prices down with them, they will put
on the country, on the price of land? State western lands nearer market than they now are,
what your experience upon that subject has to a certain extent; but they would have to inbeen, whether it has tended to diminish the troduce avast amount of grain from regions now
price?                                      uncultivated in the west, to the markets of the
A. I once had that question raised upon me world, before it would be affected by it.
a good many years ago, very agreeably, and I   Mr. COBB-Do you refer to the effect of indilook back upon it now with an inclination to vidual lines of the railroad system?
smile. Somewhere about the year 1850 we   A. I refer to the effect upon the State of New
opened our Michigan Central railroad to Lake York. If the whole system of railways could be
Mlichigan, in 1852 we opened it to Chicago. We blotted out from the west at once, it would cut
there met on the lake the waterborne carriers in off certain districts of lands of the west from the
boats. Not getting long business, we had to eastern markets, except by the Mississippi and
carry that long business at a lower rate than we St. Lawrence. Whether it would compel them
carried our local business, owing te the compe- to grow more at a less price, I do not know.
tition of these boats. We carried our local busi-   Q. Do you know whether or not the local rates
ness at a very great reduction upon the charges which the produce of the western states have to
which the state had charged. The state had pay to reach the competing points at the west,
built the road to Kalamazoo, which was the en- are as high or higher than the local rates on the
trepot. We took the road froml the state and New York lines?
reduced the rates twenty-five per cent below the   A. I think it will be found that they are geneallowance in the charter, as we thought the rally not less than 25 per cent higher; I should
rates called for in our charter too high. But say more than that.  I know  our own rates
when we got to Chicago we had to reduce them  on the Michigan Central road are over 25 per
much lower; we had to commence at Niles, cent higher, from a 100 to 150 miles from Dewhich is situated on a navigable river where we troit or Chicago, are very far in advance of the
crossed it, about twenty or thirty miles from the New York Central's local rates. I think that
lake. There were these little steamboats taking will be found to be so over the whole west.
freight down the lake, which came thence around. There may be isolated exceptions, but the geneWhen we got to Niles we took that business ral rule is such as I state.
from the river at the rates charged by the boats,   Q. State to the Committee the relative cost of
and as our route was the best we took the whole carrying wheat and carrying flour on the railway,
of it, and broke up the system completely. The the same distance?
Kalamazoo people met and prepared an address   A. I do not know as there is much difference,
to us saying that we had rulined the price of land provided if the wheat is put in b gs; but it is
ill Kalamazoo county by carrying freight at lower hardly considered practicable to do so when you
rates from Berrien county. I wrote them a let- come to the bulk, it is more difficult to carry than
ter which was printed in pamphlet form, of flour. West of the Mississippi the plan is, to put
which I have not seen a copy for several years, lip the grain in bags for the St. Louis market;
but tile purport of it was this, that unless it in- but where it is carried in bulk, as it is east of
creased the price of grain, and influenced the the Mississippi, there is a broad margin in favor
price raised upon the Mediterranean and the of carrying flour.
wheat-growing countries of the world, it would   Mr. COBB-Have you often attended railroad
not atfect the price of their land unless we dam- conventions, during your 25 years' experience on
aged them, or raised the price between Kalama- railroads?
zoo and the markets, their land would be as it   A. I have attended quite a number of them.
was before, as we had reduced the price between   Mr. COBB-How extensive are they attended
Kalamazoo and the market more than 25 per by other lines?
cent, we had increased the value of their land,   A. I think we had one once at Cleveland
and as we had not carried wheat any cheaper where we figured 800 millions of dollars of
from Berrien county any cheaper than other lines capital.
we had not increased the price of land there.  Mr. COBB-But how many different lines?
Q. State that principle in its application to the   A. I do not know as I could say; we had a
lands in the State of New York?             vast number of roads.
A. I say, in regard to the lands of New York,   Mr. COBB-Are these four roads, the Baltithat if the New York Central Railroad has not more & Ohio, the Pennsylvania Central, the New
raised the price of products from any particular York & Erie, and the New York Central, are
district to the common markets, they have not they ordinarily conspicuous in those convenreduced the value of land in that region, unless tions?
they have done something which should deterio-   A. I believe there was no one present from
rate the prices in this common market, which those roads at that convention, except Mr.
they have not the power to do, because from all Moran.
the sources of the west they have done business   Mr. COBB-Is that the case with all the conat the rates of other lines; therefore, they did ventions?
not open up any more lands by their own acts in A. I should think, as a general thing, one or
competition. I take it, that if all the lal;ds in two of them are present at about a half of the
the west were opened up, it would not affect the conventions, perhaps a little more. When they
price of grain in the world. The grain-growing have had their compacts between themselves
regions are very large, and as the New York they have generally stood aloof from convernroads carry grain at the same prices as their tions held by the western lines. It depends a




28
little upon what they are called for. If they are by us, but I think there was a little want of
called for the fall or spring, to make running ar- faith in keeping it up with them.
ra:;gements, they have to be present. Some-   Mr. COEB —Did they not charge that on your
times they are represented by their principal northern routes?
officers, sometimes by their train managers.   A. They always charge it on each other, under
Mr. COBB-When the arrangements are being such circumstances, and I dare say the charges
made for their summer's business they are ordi- are very true.
narily represented?                            Mr. COBB-These railroad compacts are more
A. Yes, sir-and in the fall when the arrange- on paper than anywhere else?
ment are being made for winter trains.         A. They are very apt to result so. It is alMr. COBB-Represented by somebody?         most impossible, by law or agreement, to make
A. Yes, sir.                               the thing work steady. The best way is to put
Mr'. COBB —While the St. Nicholas compact in the hands of freight agents the right to drop
was in existence they were present in the con- rates when anybody else does. We have come
ventions less than before?                  to that as the only practicable method.
A. Yes, sir.                                 Mr. COBB-Then to the public, who do not
Mr. COBB-In these conventions has any par- know that there is no fault in railroad compacts,
ticular line a controlling influence?       there is a liability of being largely deceived?
A. I don't think there is. We have some-   A. Ithinkyou mightfindsomerailroadsas mean
times felt when we voted, (as we generally do, in their business operations as men in other lines
and have always done, by railroads,) that lines of business. I do not know of any peculiar qualsouth of the south shore of Lake Erie, there ity of mind or nature in railroad men, which
was an undue representation. There are a good should make them different from other men.
many roads in Ohio, and a good many short   Mr. COBB-I was not calling for a pro rata
ones.                                        distinction, but for your opinion upon the subMr. COBB-I refer to the four lines?       ject?
A. These short lines all carry the same vote as   A. I have seen contracts that worked well for
the long lines. We have frequently been em- a long period, but it is very rare. If one party
barrassed by the multitude of votes coming will live squarely up to the agreement, you will
from roads of a short distance, and lines less in- find some other party to it will cut under and
terested in the east and western trains than the take the business. When that is done the time for
long lines were.                             the dissolution of the compact is at hand, and
Mr. COBB-How are the roads represented-  while it exists it has a weakly life.
by miles?                                     Mr. COBB-It is a paper contract without any
A. Each road carries one vote-the long road seal?
the same as the short one.                     A. Yes, sir. When business gets short, there
Mr. COBB-As far as the Baltimore & Ohio, is a struggle for it, and when somebody drops
the Pennsylvania Central, the New York & Erie prices to secure it, then the compact dies out
and the New York Central are concerned, has pretty quick?
any one of them  a controlling influence to any    Mr. COBB-In the spring these four lines hold
extent?                                     a convention, and in the winter also?
A. I do not think they have; I think the   A. The conventions are generally held in the
northern roads have always felt that the south  spring and fall?
has always exercised too much influence.       Mr. COBB-Can you tell me what are the relaMr. COBB-That is a mere matter of opinion? tive prices between spring and summer; are
A. Yes, sir. Each one cast his vote to carry they higher or lower or is there anything like a
his point, otherwise I don't think there has been uniformity.
any undue influence.                           A. In the winter they are higher than in the
Mr. COBB-Which of the roads do you re- summer.
gard as your allies?                          Mr. COBB-What is the cause of this adA. The New York Central and the Grand vance?
Trunk.                                         A. The cost of doing the work in the winter
Mr. COBB-You ship over either as occasion is a great deal higher than it is in the summer.
offers?                                     I think if we were compelled to work in the
A. We are unfortunate because our long lines winter at the rates we receive for summer busicast but one vote.                           ness, it would be better for us to leave the busiMr. COBB-But the Pennsylvania Central has ness and shut up our offices.
only one vote?                                Mr. COBB-Is that the only cause which proA. Yes, sir. But the lines running into it al- duces an advance in prices?
ways vote with the Pennsylvania Central and    A. I have no doubt that the closing of the
against the Michigan Central.                canals and lakes has a very great influence.
Mr. COBB-You have no feeders of that kind? When the lakes are closed from Chicago to BufA. They are very small. Our feeders lie west falo we can get a higher rate. When the St.
of Chicago, and with them  it is immaterial Lawrence, the Ohio river (though the Ohio river
whether they vote with us or with the Pennsyl- is more unsteady) and the canal is closed, and
vania Central. We have felt it to be very em- the Northern Mississippi, we can all get rates
barrassing to have the roads vote by routes and higher, and perhaps it gives us as much profit
not by miles.                                on our business as we get on our summer busiMr. COBB-You have alluded to the St. Nich- ness at lower rates.
olas compact; did you state that the southern    Mr. COBB-Are not your winter rates ordinaroads adhered to that rigidly?              rily remunerative?
A. I think they cut freights even on that. I   A. I should think that, one year with another,
think they were much in favor of keeping it up  they are.




29
Mr. COBB-How would it compare with yoar   Mr COBB —Imean for the purpose of engaging
summer remuneration?                         business?
A. I rather think we get quite as much net   A. Yes, sir.
out of the summer.                              Mr. COBB-How much further west do they
Mr. COBB-Take the traffic together on one have agencies?
line of it?                                    A. I cannot tell you that.
A. Of course we make more money out of   Mr. COBB-They extend, at all events, from
passengers, because our rates are not much Chicago to New York city?
higher in winter than in summer-not near as   A. It is generally understood that in the large
much as the cost is. We make more in summer sources of business there are men who look out
than in winter. I do not think we get more than for the interests of these great lines, extending
10 or 12 per cent for running our passenger from the centres of business.
business more.                                  Mr. COBB-You remarked, that previous to
Mr. COBB-You speak of a large number of 185 1,'58, your rates were made up by yourfreight agents in Chicago. Have the lines over selves, and there was less cutting down?
which they engage, a tacit understanding to pro   A. Yes, sir.
rate with each other on any contracts which   Mr. COBB —What was the position of the
they make?                                   Michigan Central at that time, compared with
A. I think that is generally understood   The thepresent?
Pennsylvania Central has its own counsels in its   A. We got very much better rates.
management. Our understanding is, that if we   Mr. COBB-What was its financial condition,
keep within reasonable limits the others will compared with the present?
hold to it. If the rates are unreasonably low,   A. Better-much better. There were fewer
the remedy is to call a convention.           liles to divide the business among. It is partly
Mr. COBB-Then they have a power of attor- owing to financial disaster, and the great depresney to make contracts, and you carry them out? sion of the trade of the country. How mluch is
A. That has not been formally given, but owing to that, and how much to the division of
there is a general understanding.            the business among the different lines, is a matMr. COBB-It amounts to an understanding. ter of judgment.
Do you ever repudiate contracts entered into?  Mr. COBB —What proportion of your busiA. I do not say that. If we take a contract at ness is called through business?  That which
below payinl rates it is held to as a matter of comes from Chicago?
courtesy. There is no compulsion. The Great A. I don't think I have seen the figures in reW.estern road isn Canada do have  soe  Gbicker- gard to that subject for the last three or four
ingsn                                         years. I should thinkl that one-third of the
number of tons we move was through.  The
Mr. COBB-But it ends in a settlement by  nu mber  of tove  would be less than half of the
whichl the property is carried?              long tons moved would be less than half of the
which the property is carried?                local.
A. Sonmetimes the person making the contract   Mr. COBB-That would be about one-third of
has to pay the loss. We at the west think that the total?
the agents of the four lines at the east can judge   A. Less than half of the whole. I think it is
whether they can get business from them  better more than one-third. As a mere matter of judgthan we can. We at the west have better op- ment, I should say that the through tons put
portunities for judging of the prospects for busi- i)to the car, were two-fifths of the total numler
ness at the west. Sometimes ships carry to and of tons. But what proportion of the tolnage
from New Orleans very cheaply, and particularly moving one mile it is, is another question. The
when it comes to the cotton trade going to the long business goes the whole length of the road;
north. We are quite willing at such times to the short business, ten miles and upwards.
drop our prices at the west to keep the trade in   Mr. COBB-What are the present quotations
the northern channels, which, in the west, has a of the Michigan Central stock?
chance to go down the rivers. They feel that   A. I think the last I saw was 38?
we can best judge at the west end of the route,   Mr. COBB-What was it in 1857?
and we feel that their judgment is better at the   A. In the spring of 1857 business was much
east. It is the same way as partners in a certain better than in the fall. That was the year when
business living at different points, and where everything broke down.
both are interested in the result of the opera-   Mr. COBB —Previous to July, how was it?
tions at both places. Each would rely upon the   A. I cannot recollect; I should think it was
other to look after their joint interests at his more than 50; I may be mistaken.
own end of the line, because each in his own   Mr. COBB-Was there ever any time when its
position can better serve the other's interest than stocks were worth 100?
the other could himself.                        A. There was a time when it was over par.
Mr. COBB —Have the New York Central and    Mr. COBB-How lollg since?
the New York and Erie, in their agencies at Chi-   A. A good many years. It was not within 5
cago, signs over their doors?                or 6 years.
A. They have agents there. I am not certain    Mr. COBB-Was it within 6 or 7?
whether the New York Central has an office   A. It may be; I am very bad at remembering
there or not. I dare say they have. The New  dates.
York and Erie has.                              Mr. COBB-What were the relative rates of
Mr. COBB-They are as much represented as compensation for the traffic you performed then,
at the city of Albany?                       compared with now?
A. Not as much as the city of Albany, per-   A. Our rates must have been a good deal higher
haps, Albany being one of the termini of the than now; I cannot tell the relative rates; it
road.                                         would be a hard matter to go back 5 or 6 years.




30
Mr. COBB-But you must have a general re-    Mr. COBB-Then do you regard it that a ton
collection?                                     of either of these commodities costs no maore
A. Our passenger rates were not any higher than a ton of anything else to transport?
thain now.                                          A. I do not think it does much.  I would
5Mr. COBB-I refer to freight.                  rather carry flour than some other artices.
A. I cannot tell.                                Mr. COBB-rThen there is very little differMir. COBB-WWhat was the relative amount of ence in the cost of movement.  No matter what
tonlliae you moved at that time compared with  the commodity is, whether first, second or third
rnow?                                           class; a ton of flour would represent a ton of
A. That I am unable to tell you.               anything else?
Mr. COBB-What was about the relative value    A. I cannot say that.  I would rather carry
of Gi'eat Western stock in 1857. previous to July, flour thatl molasses.  Sonic kinds of sugar we
as compinared witlh its value now?              have trouble with.
A. It was very high until they commenced to    Mr. COBB-Will a ton of flour fairly reprebuild tlleir branches, about plar; when they com- sent, as near as may be, a ton of anything else.
mellce(l theni it t)bgan to d1op).                  A. I would rather carry a ton of flour than
lMr. COBB-What is its value now?              a ton of anytli:ng else.
A. I c(aiillot tell.                             Mr. COBB —:What is the difference?
Mr. COBB-Very considerably lower?   ~            A. I don't think I would make much differA. I Ilave nlever seen a quotation of that in  ence.
my life. I do not know that there ever has been a    Mr. COBB-How would it be with pork in
sharo sold in the market so as to have a quota-  barrels 2  Would a ton of that fairly represent
tion.                                            a ton of anythingll  else?
Mr. COBB —What is the lowest rate at which    A. I thinllk that rolling freight is better than
you ever transported freigrht                    other f'reights.
A. I should tllink we had carried for less tlhen   IMr. C013B —Would you regard a ton of moa cent a tonl l)er mile. Onice and a while we  lasses as about the worst n
have worked for tile I)purpose of puttintr  the price    A. I should think a ton of that or a ton of
dowl, when the cutting  at Chicago has been so  beef would be an avera ge.
irregular tlla:, we could niot work with satisfac-    Mr. COBB1-And the cost of transportinga that
tiol, we have theni put down pirices to bring the  would represent the cost of moving aliythimw 2
rates againl to a )aying poillt                    A. Allllost anything.  Gentlemen can judge
ll. CO13BB-Your obtject was to punish your as well as I.  It is a miere question of the satbty
competitors?                                    of the article and of its destructability.
A. The olbject was to secure a meeting at once.    Mr. COBB-I am not a railroad man, anid we
Whenl we found they were charginrg 15, when we  call upon railroad menl for information about that
asked 1l)0, we d(lopp)ed to 95; then they fell to  which we have only a theoretical knowledge.
90; we followed, anld they drol)lped to 85. When  You mentioned thalt the I'ennsylvaniia Celntral is
thcat course is pursued, as it is occasionally, then  actually now running to Chicago; is riot the weswe iput rates dowIn to such a figure as will call tern eud of that road in the halids of a receiver?
the at tention of the officers of the road at once,    A. Yes, sir.  I be~lieve it is the Pittsburgh,
and an arrangement is promptly made by which  Fort Wayne anld Chicago.
pIayinlg rates mlay be secured.                     Mr. COBB-it is in the hands of the receiver 
Mri-. COBB — What is the cost *f the movement    A. Yes, sir.
of freight per ton per mile, as you estimate it 2    Mr. COBB-I think you said the southern
A. I lla(de one explanation of what I consider- roads, the Baltimore anid Ohio, and the Penned as ie\v businiess.                            sylvania Central were less affected by the exMr. COBB-I mean new business.                  tremes of heat and cold than the northernl?
A. I donit think I have ever figured that on    A. Yes, sir, very nluchl.  1 believe with regard
oul road.                                        to the receiver of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne
Mr. COBB-Do you suppose that your road is anid Chicago, that it was made satisfactory to
operated dearer or cheaper than the New York  lMr. Thompson, the president of both roads, it
Central?                                        and the Pennsylvania Central, and that the arA. I do not think it should be much different. rangement is such as not to embarrass the busiOur gra(les are not very munch different from  ness at all.
those of the New York Cent al.                     Mr. HOVEY-You lhave stated to the comMri. COBB-Do you suppose the cost to be  mittee that, in your judgment, if the fourth class
smaller?                                        freights should be tak(e1, from  the railroads in
A. I think we have mutual advantages. They  this state, instead of going by thie canal, a large
have grades easier a little, but we have fuel portion would go by roads outside of the state?
cheaper. It is about the same.                     A. I said a considerable proportion.  How
Mr. COBB-Is there any difference between  large a proportion I did not state. A considerathe cost of moving fourth class merchandise and  ble proportion would go to the railroads of other
other comumodities?  Are there any distinctions  states, along with the other three classes.  I
in tile value of handling a barrel of flour and a  thought some, now going upon the canals, would
barrel of beef or pork?                          follow. I stated that the tl ade of the southern
A. Not very appreciable. I would rather carry  cities would increase, drawilng front all classes
flour a little, thall tile others.               from the northern cities. Whether the aggreMlr. COBB1-Do you regard it that a ton of gate result would be a reducing or increasilg the
flour or a toin of beef may be carried as cheap as canal or rot is a question of judgment.
a ton of anything else?                            Mr. HOVEY —Do you know what proportion
A. I should regard all those articles as being  the fourth class freight, mloved by the canals is,
very flvorable to cheap transportation.          comlpared with that by railroads?




31
A. I have no doubt of it.                      Mr. IIOVEY-They would lose the whole
A. I have not the slightest idea.            busiless?
Mr. HOVEY-Do you not know  that it is    A. Unless they fixed the rates so near cost
much larger than that carried by all the freights that other roads would not accept the rate dictacarried by the railroads of this state?       ted, they would.  I think the New York Central
A. I do not kilow  anything about it.  The  worked in this way for five years. It would sefourth class carried by railway, covers certain  verely try the patience of the Pennsylvania Censpecified articles.  If you put all canal freights  tral railroad, but I think she would work for
into the freight cars, it must be very immense.  such an advantage.
Mr. HIOVEY-Do you make your prices on    Mr. HOVEY-Does that bring yon to the con.
heavy articles, beet, pork and flour, and freight elusion tlat the long business now  on these
of that character, with direct reference to the  roads, is done at little or no profit, with such
canal prices in the summer?                    competition as now exists?
A. I think that the long business is done at a
A. No, tSir.  SO far w as  e are concettrned we  considerable profit.  I think it can be kept up at
make them  more witll reference to lake transthe rate it is now done. None of the roads can
poIrtation. If we are running back our cars to  ieduce  the rates of long business  unless the
Chicago empty, we fill tlhem at very low rates, others do it, and there is nothing to be gained
If we are running them  back full, and getting  by it.  Suppos
low rates, we would let the lake take the whole York Central where they now are, tor   month.'ork Central where they now are, for a month.
freight.                                        The agents of other lines at Chicago would drop
Mr. HOVEY-I asked with reference to your
Cnr. HOVEY-I   ith the New York eference to your their prices two cents, or five cents per hundred
A. In sniner w it makes  no diffYeCenc  to ti.e pounds, and get the business. They would contitnue to reduce the price from month to month,
New York Central whether it goes by lake or until the rates were very near cost.
by rail, and we have to go squarely against lake.    Mr. HOVEY-What will be the effect of this
The New York Celtral cannot give us any freigllt competition on the stock of tile road for the
to help us in the summerl                       next five years?
Mr. IIOVEY-In your judgment is there any    A. It is hard to tell. I have generally ieen
route from Lake Erie to New York cheaper than  of the opinionl that the longer this competition
the New Yorkl Central olr Hudsonl River?       continued, the more it would make the roads
A. I have no knowledge of the capacity of the  pursue a conservative course, and stick to the
canal.                                         rates, finding that, in cutting prices, they were
Mr. IIOVEY-I speak of the railroads.         met with promptness by a similar reduction by
A. I do not                                  other roads.
Mr. lIOVEY-You think no route can do it   Mr. HOVEY-Do you regard the action of
better?                                       these roads, during the past year, as having been
A. I think not. I think that long lines call conservative?
put down rates so as to make it unprofitable.    A. I cannot say I do.
Long lilies have the capacity to take away the    Mr. HO10VEY-H-Is not competition been going
profitable margil of the short lilies.  If tile New  on without any regulation or order
York Central can. make 25 per cellt, these other    A. The competition has been very severe; it
longer lines have to be satisfied with 10 or 12  is almost always so when a new road enters into
per cenllt.                                    a traffic and aatetupts to get it away from  old
MrI. HOVEY-You stated to the Committee, ones. It is gener.raly very strong and very perthat if prices were fixed for freight from east to  severing. Such was tile case with the Southern
west, that unless they were fixed so low that the  lines, and such is the case with tile Grand Trunk
busilless would pay no profit, it would go to  now. They have got to make patrons for their
other roads?                                   new  avenue, and introduce the public to it.
A. It would.                                 People are attached to old avenues and induceMr. lIOVEY-Do you mlean that this immense  ments have to be made to secure their patronage
business would be done at a loss to get it?    for the new ones. The inducements are lower
A. I do not think it would do it at a loss. I rates. When at last they had formed acquainthink thle Pennsylvania Central anld Baltimore  tenanices and secured patronage, they would
and Ohio would woik at a loss for a time, under consent to organize and fix prices at fIir rates
the impression that it would strengthen their with the other lines. In another year another
road from the East in the trade with the West, new line, without friends and without patrons,
so thzat they would, eventually, make considera- comes into competition, and again the arrangeble i)rolit. We frequently open a business which  ments are thrown into pi by their cutting rates
is d pendent for its future hopes of success in  to get patrons.  This being secured, they of
doing business at rates, for the present, that are  course would be conservative.
not at all remunerative.  If I was the controller    Mr. HOVEY-Then the establishment of busiof t he affails of the Pennsylvania Central and  ness is no avail unless you do it as cheap as anyBaltilmore and Ohio railroads, I would do a  body else.
large lamount of business at cost, to these cities,   A. I don't think it is of much value in the
witli the idea that it would result favorably to  freight bushiness; in the passenger business it imlay
theml  il tile future.                          have; blt even there it has a wearing off teniMr. l1OVEY-llaving expressed the opinion  deiicy which would result injuriously.
thait tile New York Central can do business as    Mr. HOVEY-Do you know the distances from
low as anly otlle  rlute, do you think there would  Detroit to Bostonl, Portland and New York, by
be dallger of a linal loss to that road if they  the Grand Trunnk'.
iAere collelled to (do )business at a fixed pub-    A. I do not; I hllink it is as near from Detroit
lished rate for a month?                      to B1ston as it is from Detroit to Portlanld, con



32
siderably nearer; if so, it is a hundred miles                S T A T E M  E N T
nearer from  Detroit to Boston by the Grand
Trunk than by the New York Central, and Al- Of SOLOMON  DRULLARD, General Freight
bany and Western.  The Grand Trunk, I might    Agent of the New  York  Central Railmention, has introduced a new element in the    road Conlpany.
traffic, that of advancing money on freights.
Mr. COBB-Is not the New York Central re-    I have been General Freight Agent of the New
presented in the Board of Directors of the Michi- York Central Railload Company, since Sepltemgan Central.                                     bet-, 1854; and previous to that tiime was GeneA. Mr. Corning is a member of our board.        ral Freight Agelt of thle Buffalo and Hornellsville
[During a subsequent stage of the proceedings, Railroad.  I was forlnerly engaged in tile canal
Mr. Brooks appeared before the Committee and  tlansportation business, froml  1827 up to thle
made the following additional statement, in ex-  time of my appl:ointmelnt to tile General Freigrht
planation of a part of his testimony.  Reporter.]  Agenlcy of tile Buffalo and Hornellsville Railroad.
Mr. BROOKS-I understand that I said in re-    I thiltk the cost of' movillg  way-freight, exply to the last gentleman, that all freights could  ceeds by one-third the cost oL' movigi throughbe carried at about the same rates. I understood  freilght, and perhaps more, inasmuch as waythe gentleman  to mean fourth-class freights, trains, do nlot, in the course of business. take or
goods carried at about the same rates as molasses convey more than two-thirds ltie number of cars
and beef.  I did not understand the question to  thalt throug-trains do-perltaps less; that the
cover the first, second and third classes. It would  Nay-cars are very frequently but partially loadbe absurd to suppose that a ton of chairs or grain  ed.  It also requires a longer time to go a given
cradles, of which you cannot carry more than a distance, in consequence of the frequent stopton or two in a car, would be as cheap as the  paoges-going on and off the switches to get to
others.  I supposed I had so stated the facts as the fieight houses, for loading and unloading
not to be mistaken. I supposed that the questiou  freight, thus incleasing  the  cost oi' nmotive
referred to what was a fair average for fourth-  power, altd the men enmployed on freight trainls
class freight.                                    that from twvo to five and six men are required
Mr. COBB-Can you load your cars fully with  at the several way-stations, to load and unload,
first and second class goods.?                   to make out way-bills, collect charges, deliver
A. Some of the kinds we can. There is a wide  and receive freight, naking thle cost of conveying
difference.  Of furniture you can get but very  way-fieighl, as compared witl- thlrough, frollt 40
little.                                           to 50 per cent greater. The way-busitme.ss is chiefMr. COBB-Dry goods in boxes and bales.    ly independent of-the throu(gh, requiring separate
A. You could, I should think; you would  mern and management, and is necessarily governonly suffer greater risk of loss or damage. High  ed by different rules, and should be condlucted
priced goods are more susceptible to damage. under differelt tarilta, and mlusL be, if tile lifibrSome goods we can get only one or two tons ilt  ence in cost of trans)portation is taken illto aca car that carries ten tons, and with some we get count.
in the full weiaght.                                I hlave examined thle way-fieight tariffs, of the
Mr. COBB-What do you suppose is the aver- eighteen diffeirent andl plrilcilal fireiglht roads,
age tonnage per car, the season through, of first presented to the Conlmittee in thle testilmony of
and second class goods?                           Mr1. S)paulding, as well as the local freight tarA. I could not guess any better than yourself  iffs of many other roads, and finld that no roads
Some may carry ten tons and others not more do their local freightingr at rates as low as those
than two tons.  They range between those two  charged by the New York Central on all their
figures.                                          way-freigalts; nor do I believe, that greater acMr. COBB-Taking goods in boxes and bales comlmlodlaiolls, or more dispatch, are aff;,l'ded to
which are pretty heavy, would you estimate the shippers of local freillht oli tihe line of any otller
cost of moving these as greater than moving the  road, than are (iven oil thle New York Centra;l.
fourth class'                                      From my kilo\wledge of tle freighlting business
A. I do not think the simple difference in the on the New York Central Road. I an confidenit,
cost of movement amounts to much, but the  that it could not (lo a way and thrloughl-bulsiless
hazard and liability to damage makes the differ- under a pro rata lav; nlol could it do a throughence.                                             business in competition \itll tile rival lines. if
Mr. COBB-Then it depends upon the value  colmpelled to mnake and publisl a tarif}; wNlhich
of the commodity, whether heavy or light?         could not be varied for thirty days; tior, as
A. Yes, sir.                                    soomi as a tariff was i)ul)ished, cottipeting lines
Mr. COBB-Take the third class goods; do  would drop sufliciently under it to secutre the
not the cars orditnarily go fully loaded when  business fIront all con)itetitg p()illets.  Ili a cornyou carry that class.                            peting business, like tle translportation of proA. So far as the third class is concernled. I lwerty, witlhout tlhe power of intmtediate clhanTe
cannot now name anly articles which belon  in in ill  rices, we beconte tle prey of aggression,
that class-I am  ignorant of that detail as to  withlout tile power of self-iprotection; oult right
what belongs to one class or thle other.  I could  to cllange, evenl if not used, is our otnly and
not divide  the articles  into their respective  stlrolg safeaua,ld.
classes at all.                                     A mleasure like the one asked for in the I etiMr. COBB —Is there not a wide dissinmilarity  tiois, would, in nmy judgment, diert the trade
in the price of movement of articles which yvo  ftroti New FYork. anIl her1 roads, to a very serious
can't put eight or ten tolns in a car, and does not extent, and ilijutli:lg materially tlle large investthe onlly difference consist in the value of the  imenits made by the business interests of the
article'?                                        S tt ic.
A. Yes, sir, and the liability to damage?        Whlile in Chlicgo, last week, I found that the




33
agents of the Grand Trunk Railroad, had actu- venience, and that property belonging to Buffalo
ally contracted to convey a large quantity of was detained until that received from the west
provisions from Chicago to Liverpool, at eighty- had gone forward. It is the usual and proper
seven and one-half cents per one hundred  course for the company to transport property in
pounds. This freight was offered to the New  the order in which it is received, giving preferYork Central and Erie Roads at the same price, ence as far as they can, to perishable property,
but it was declined at so low a rate. The Grand and late in the fall or early in December, at about
Trunk Road is to be a formidable competitor to which time the river closes, the company will
the New York Roads, and is now taking busi- not receive property to ship through except at
ness to the seaboard from them at Chicago, St. their convenience after property previously reLouis, Cincinnati and other common western ceived, has gone forward. There is generally for
towns, at prices considerably below those at a few days at about the close of navigation a
which property has heretofore been transported press of freight at Buffalo and other points to go
through New York.                             east, which makes a few days' delay absolutely
Tile case alluded to in the New York Tribune, necessary before all property offered can be
of December last, about which one of the Corn- shipped, but it always goes forward in the
mittee made inquiry, must be a mistake. I have order which it is received, and as fast as the
no knowledge of cattle being driven from Bergen large equipment of the road can transport it.
to Buffalo, to take the cars for Albany. Cases November 1st, 1854, the tariff on flour fiom Bufof this kind have occurred. Parties living at falo to New York, was seventy cents per barrel,
Bergen, and other places on the line of the Cen- and to Albany sixty cents. This continued until
tral Road, west of Rochester, have at times been the boats on the Hudson river put up their freight.
allowed, when the rates of transportation were which made a corresponding advance from Buffair, to ship their cattle from  Buffalo to points falo to New York necessary. The advance was
on the line of the road east, unload them with a five cents per barrel. so that on the 13th Novemview of a few weeks' pasturage, then take them  ber, flour from Buffalo to New York was seventyup and transport them to Albany without extra five cents. On the 21st November, fieights were
charge. At one time, last summer, when the  advanced on flour to seventy-eight cents to New
competition was sharp, and prices very low, one York, and sixty-five cents to Albany. December
of the shippers, who had previously enjoyed the 9th the tariff on flour from  Buffalo to Albany,
privilege just mentioned, desired to avail him- was seventy cents, from Rochester to Albany,
self of its benefits again, but was refused at the fifty-five cents, and Canandaiaua to Albany fifty
then low rates; the cattle were therefore sent cents per barrel.  On the 2d January all the
through without charge at the competing prices. freight at Buffalo was cleared out, so that no
Mr. Cobb is very much mistaken in his state- complaint could be made on account of delay.
ment before the Committee, that no property was January 4th, the rate on flour from  Buffalo to
shipped for the citizens of Buffalo, between Oct. New York was ninety-five cents, of which the
20th and Nov. 20th, on the Central Railroad. Hudson River Road received thirty-seven and a
They had, it is true, large quantities of freight half cents per barrel. January 10th, the rates
to be forwarded at that time, but it did not pre- on flour to New York were advanced to $1.10
vent shipments of Buffalo freights, between the cents per barrel, of which the Hudson River
dates just mentioned. It frequently occurs in Road received forty-five cents per barrel, leaving
the fall, when the canal has more than it can do, to the New York Central Road sixty-five cents
that forwarders are desirous of making large per barrel from Buffalo to Albany. In February,
shipments on the railroad on short notice, at a the Hudson River Road reduced their prices,
time when there is a large quantity of property and the tariff was again established at ninety-five
in the railroad freight houses, which has been cents per barrel from Buffalo to New York. No
previously received. This delays property for freights at this time was taken from western points,
the Buffolo forwarders for a few days, as pro- at a different tariff from the above. Arbitrary
perty must be dispatched in the order it is re- rates were maintained at Dunkirk, Buffalo and
ceived. But this state of things never lasts but Suspension Bridge, on freights from the northa few days at a time.                         west, and generally so from the southwest, with
1 have examined the case charged against the the exception of cases where the roads of New
Central Road, by Mr. Parsons of Rochester, who York were brought into competition with the
said that flour was taken from Rochester to New  southern lines, until the lines of the southern
York for sixty cents per barrel, while eighty-seven roads were extended through to Chicago, which
and a half cents was charged from Fisher's Sta- so much increased the competition for through
tion, sixteen miles east of Rochester. The expla- business that arbitrary rates could no longer be
nation given by Mr. Briggs, before the Committee, maintained without a loss of the business to the
is correct. The flour was shipped by the Central New York lines. The cases mentioned by Mr.
Road to Albany, to the care of the Swiftsure Line Cobb, where discriminations were made, have
of tow boats on the river, at fifty-two cents per almost all of them occurred within the past two
barrel to Albany. It did not reach Albany in years, when the competition with rival lines has
time to take the river before its close, was carted been unparalleled, and when it was necessary to
over the river by the Swiftsure Line to the Hud- take freights from common competing points at
son River Road, at an expense of five and half very low prices, in order to show the rival lines
cents per barrel, and was charged on the Hudson that it was better to return to fair and established
River Road, the usual winter tariff thirty cents prices, and that they would get as much business
per barrel to New York. There was no fault on by so doing, as they did under extreme low rates.
the part of the Central Road in regard to it.  I find as much discrimination between long and
A complaint was made on the part of the pe- short distances, and against the people of this
titioners, that the Central Road, last fall, in Buf- state, in the transportation, on the canals as is
falo, received flour to ship at the company's con- made by railroads, and I give a few cases which
5




34
have mostly come under my observation the past         Rochester, 415 miles, 12 cents per 100
year, in the document marked A, appended to            lbs. A pro rata would havr been,
this statement. My experience is, that discrimi-       fiom New York to Rochester, 5 14nations between long and short freights are gene-       100 cents per 100 lbs.
ral oil all lines of transport.              Aug., 1859. New York to Detroit, via Oswego,
January 31st, 1860.     S. DRULLARD.                 14 cents per 100 lbs. Syracuse to
Canastota, 20 miles, 10 cents per 100
lbs. A pro rata, from Syracuse to
A.                                 Canastota, would have been 4 2-3
mills, or less than half a cent per 100
CANAL DISCRIMINATIONS.                          lbs.
Sept. 1, 1859. On the day the Canal Convention
iay, 1859. New York to Buffalo, 514 miles, 10         was held in Rochester, the freight on
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to              flour was 35 cents per barrel, by
Rochester, 415 miles, 12 cents per           canal, both from  Buffalo apll Ro100 lbs. At pro rata it should have          cester, to New York, one 514 miles,
been 8 4-100 cents per 100 lbs., or          the other 415 miles. At pro rata
one-tllird less than was charged to          rate, it should have been oldy 29
Buffalo.                                     64-100 cents per barrel from  RoJune, 1859. New York to Lockport, 483 miles,           Rochester.  Difference against Ro16 cents per 100 lbs. New York to            chester millers, nearly 6 cents per
Cleveland, 700 miles, 12 cents per           barrel.
100 lbs.  A pro rata to Lockport Oct. 21, 1859. Buffalo to New York, 50 cents
would be 7 87-100 per 100 lbs., or           per barrel for flour. New York to
less than half the amount charged.           Cleveland, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A
June, 1859. New York to Lockport, 16 cents              pro rata on flour, from  Buffalo to
per 100 lbs., 483 miles. Brockport           New York, would be 19 cents per
to rMedina, 10 cents per 100 lbs. At         barrel, or considerable less than onepro rata, the rate between Brockport         half charged.
and Medina, would be 9 mills, or
leand   edina, would  be 9 mills, o aged These cases have all occurred within the preless than one-tenth that was charged.
July, 1859. Newv York to Syracuse, 8 cents per sent year, and they might be multiplied to fill
100 lbs., 366 miles.  Syracuse to up as many books as have been published by the
Manlius, 10 miles, 8 cents per 100 Clinton League. They are of every day occurlbs. At pro rata, the rate between rence, and show quite as glaring a difference as
Syracuse and Manlius, would have can be found on any of the railroads in the State.
been 3 mills per 100 lbs., instead of They show one prominent feature in the carry10 cents.                         ing trade-that short distances pay higher rates
July, 1859. Albany to Syracuse, 166 miles, 12 than long ones, by the same mode of transit.
cents per 100 lbs. New York to Sy-                   S. DRULLARD,
racuse, 316 miles, 8 cents per 100 lbs.          Genl. Frt. Agt. N. Y. C. R. R.
A pro rata, between Albany and Sy-   January 30, 1860.
racuse, would be 4 1-5 cents, or
about one-third the amount charged.
July, 1859. Albany to Rochester, 269 miles, 14         TESTIMONY RESUMED.
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to
Rochester, 419 miles, 10 cents per   Mr.  --  PHILLIPS, superintendent of the
100 lbs. At pro rata, from Albany, Boston and Worcester road, was then called as
to Rochester, would be 6 42-100 per a witness. He gave the following testimony,
100 lbs.                           Mr. Thompson conducting the examination:
July, 1859, Albany to Rome, 125 miles, 10   Q. Where do you reside?
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to   A. At Boston.
Syracuse, 316 miles, 8 cents per 100   Q. What is your occupation?
lbs. At pro rata, from Albany to   A. I am  superintendent of the Boston and
Rome, it should have been 3 27-100 Worcester railroad.
cents per 100 lbs.                   Q. How long have you acted in that capacity?
July,' 1859. Albany to Utica, 100 miles, 10   A. On that road about a year and a half.
cents per 100 lbs.  New York to    Q. How long have you been in the railroad
Detroit, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro business?
rata would be, from Albany to Utica,   A. Since 1850. From 1840 to 1843 I was on
1 96-100 cents per 100 lbs., or less the Worcester road; from  1843 to 1852 I was
than one-quarter the price charged.  freight agent on that road, and from 1852 to
Aug., 1859. Albany to Amsterdam, 47 miles, 1858 I was superintendent of the Cleveland and
10 cents per 100 lbs. New York to Toledo road.
Cleveland, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A    Q. Then you have had experience on both
pro rata, from Albany to Amsterdam, ends of the line; the Boston end and the Clevewould have been 8 mills per 100 lbs. land and Toledo end?
Aug,, 1859. New York to Brockfort, 17 cents   A. Yes, sir.
per 100 lbs. New York to Sandusky,   Q. Will you state what in your judgment is
more than double the distance, 12 the difference in the transportation of way freight
cents per 100 lbs.                 compared with through freight?
Aug., 1859. New York to Chicago, 1,400 miles,   A. Way freight must be considerably greater
18 cents per 100 lbs. New York to in the cost than through freight,




Q. Why so?                                  A. My impression is that they are higher.
A. The engines draw less. A local train will   Q. What is your judgment as to the direction
start with one or two cars, and picks up others which through business would take, if thrown
on the route. It has the largest load at the lsL:t off the New York roads by a fixed monthly
end; and the largest will not average more than  tariffs 
two-thirds the number of through trains. Then    A. I think it would take the southern lines, a
there are station expenses. More men are em- part of it at least, and a portion would go by
ployed and more fuel consumed on way trains.  the Grand Trunk, and probably the canal would
Q. What per cent difference do you make in take a portion of it.
the cost?                                      Q. What class of freight, if any, would go by
A. There must be from 25 to 50 per cent on canal?
most roads.                                     A. The fourth class. I do not mean to say
Q. Do you think of anything else in connec- the whole of it, but a portion of it would go.
tion with the proposal to establisha pro rata?  Q. What effect would the losing of this trade
A. There are other considerations.         have upon the passenger trade 3
Q  What is the cost of winter transportation    A. To a certain extent, the passengers would
in comparison to summer transportation?      follow the freight.
A. It is very much greater. During some   Q. Do you know what was the habit of the
months in the winter I have known it to be more New York roads prior to 1858 in regard to a
than 100 per cent more than in summer. It va- fixed tariff for through freight?
ries in accordance with the intensity of the   A. They had a fixed rate and did not, until
winter.                                      about that time, pro rate with the western
Q. State the elements which go to make up  roads.
that increase in expenditures?                 Q. What was the occasion of the change of
A. The engine draws less load in the winter, policy?
and there is a larger expense in clearing the   A. The competition with the southern lines.
track of snow and ice, and there is the expense   Q. How did it happen that the southern lines
of increased breakage of wheels, axles and rails. competed at that time and not before 3
The rigidity of the track causes a greater wear   A. They had just finished their roads to Chiand tear of iron.                            cageo, Cincinnati, and other western points.
Q. Any other elements that you recollect?   Q. What would have been the effect on the
A. That makes the main features of it.     commerce passing through this state if these
Q. What, in your judgment, is the per cent competing lines had adopted the rates which
difference, as near as'you can get at it, in the they did, and our roads not been able to reduce
cost of winter and summer transportation?   their rates at the same time with their comA. It must be in this climate from 30 to 40 petitors?
per cent more.                                 A. They would have taken the business.
Q. In case of a stated published tariff, unal-   Q. Do you know what means or agencies these
terable for a month by these northern roads, roads have at the west for soliciting freights 3
what would be the effect upon the through busi-   A. The southern lines have agencies both at
ness?                                       the east and west.
A. The effect on the Boston road would be   Q. Where at the east?
that unless we put our prices of freight very    A. At Boston and New York.
low per mile, so as to leave no profit, the busi-   Q. And where at the west?
ness would go through on other routes, which   A. At Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo,
is competing for it, would put their rates a little St. Louis and other places.
lower. The only safety that roads have in com-   Q. In your judgment, can all roads competing
petition is to be able to follow the reductions of for freight from common points, receive the same
others at once.                              rate per mile pro rata?
Mr. EMERICK-It seems to me that we have   A. They cannot; the shortest line gets the
had evidence enough upon these subjects.     larger prices per ton, per mile, than the longer
Mr. FLAGLER-It is a settled matter that one.
these gentlemen were to run this train to-day in   Q. Where do freights from Maine, New Hamptheir own way.                               shire and Massachusetts bound for the west go?
Alr. TEIOMPSON-Without being obliged to   A. Through New York.
pro rate, can the way and through business be   Q. Where does it go?
done at the same rates in a practicable manner?    A. Some by the Grand Trunk, some by the
A. No, sir; it cannot.                     Ogdensburgh road, a part by the New York
Q. Will you tell why?                     Central, a part by the canal, and some goes by the
A. The through business must be taken at a southern lines.
lower rate per mile than it can be made profit-   Q. How does it go by the southern lines?
able to carry local freights for.              A. By steam  propellers or sailing vessels
Q. Can a competing route, with a longer line, around to New York or Philadelphia, or Baltifix lower prices for you and yet not be able to more, and thence by rail.
carry at as cheap a cost to itself 3            Q. Do you know upon which, if any of these
A. Yes, sir; we have a case now right in lines, this business is increasing.
point. The Grand Trunk line to Boston has a   A. I should think upon the Grand Trunk.
longer line than we to the west, but at their   Q. Which do you regard as the greatest rival
reduction of rates, which they have announced, of the New York lines-the Northern or Souththey will take our business away from us.     ern competitors?
Q. Do you know what the local tariffs on   A. If you speak of the extreme eastern busisouthern roads are, compared with the local ness, the Grand Trunk is. If you refer to Bosrates on the New York roads?                 ton, the competition is perhaps as strong by the




36
Southern lines as by the Grand Trunk. They of the local as compared with the through busiare both competing actively for the trade.  ness?
Q. What is the only protection which the rail-   A. I am not prepared to give that.
roads in the State of New York have to retain   Mr. COBB-Do the merchants of Maine do
business?                                 business over your road to any extent?
A. To be able to make the rates equal with   A. More or less.
the Southern lines.                          Mr. COBB-Where do the goods passing to
Q. If those rates were fixed at any point, what the merchants of Maine ordinarily come fromwould be the result?                      New York or Boston?
A. They come from both places.
A. If they were  fixed and thetheher lines had   Mr. COBB-Which do you think has the prethe power of reducing rates, the line reducing ponderance of the business?
would get the business.                    ponderance of the business?
would get the business.                      A. I am not prepared to say.
Q. Have other lines that power?
A. Yes, sir.                              BMr. L. M. HUBBIE, president of the Cleveland,
Mr. COBB-What are the relative rates Columbus and Cincinnati Railroad Company,
charged on freight on your road from Boston to vas introduced as a witness. His examination
Farmingham, as compared with rates charged was conducted by Mr. Thompson, as follows:
to western cities?                          Q. Where do you reside?
A. Very much larger.                       A. Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. COBB-About how much larger?            Q. What is your business 1
A. I could hardly say; it varies very much at   A. I am president of the Cleveland, Columbus
the different points.                      and Cincinnati Railroad Company.
Mr. COBB-Take  Chicago, if you please?   Q. How long have you been thus engaged?
Are the rates one, two or three hundred per cent   A. Some five years.
dearer?
Q. How long had you been engaged in railroad
A. Two hundred per cent dearer.         transportation prior to that time?
Mr. COBB-The Oadensburgh road runs in   A. Two years.
connection with your lroad, does it not?    Q. Will you tell us what, in your judgment,
A. No, Sir.                              is the difference in the cost of transportation beMr. COBB-Does not the Vermont Central tween way and through freight?
come  into your road?                       A. It would be different on different roads. I
A. It does not.                          think on our roads it is 75 per cent more than
Mr. COBB-Is it one of the competing routes the through.
to your road?                                  Why?
A. Yes, sir.                               A. The reason is, because the local business
Mr. COBB-What is the present condition of is picked up in smaller lots. Our trains start
thie OgdensburgTh road?                   from Columbus to Cleveland with an engine and
A. I      am  not posted.                tender, and a necessary amount of men to manMvlr. COBB-Have not you seen it quoted?    age it. They commence picking up cars at the
A. I do not remember to have seen it. I   "
knwA. I do not remember to hadve seen it. I' first station, which continues until they reach
know generally that the road is very much em- t the last. The cars are picked up at small stations
barrassed.                                where they are not half loaded, and the expense
Mr. COBB-The inference in your mind would of running them  equally as great as fully
be that it is not worth quoting?           loaded cars from Columbus. Then the stopping
A. I know the stock is low.              at these stations, switching out the cars and
Mr. COBB-Are any of the gentlemen hold- switching them in again, consume more time and
ing seats in the Board of the New York Central fuel than the through train does. The expense
or New York and Erie represented in your of men would be the same. The wear and tear
Board?                                    of rails would be a little less on one end of the
A. No, sir.                             road, but it is equally as great on the other end.
Mr. COBB-Are either of your Board of Di-   Q. What amount of the station and other
rectors represented in the New York Central?  equipment is properly chargeable to way freight,
A. No, sir.                             and not to through freight? I mean what is the
Mr. COBB-What is the proportion of local difference of equipment that you have to have on
to through business on your road?         the road to do way business which would not be
A. The local is largely in excess.       required if you did through business only?
Mr. COBB —What proportion should you   A. We should require no local stations if we
think?                                     did a through business alone, and we could disA. Did you mean the comparative tonnage?   pense with the men employed, the switching
Mr. COBB-I referred to business in tons.    side tracks, &c., employed in consequence of our
A. Our foreign tonnage is greater than our local business.
local.                                       Q. What proportions are the cost of these or
Mr. COBB-Your entire through tonnage is intermediate stations, compared with the termini
greater than your local?                  of the road?
A. Yes, sir.                               A. I could not exactly answer that question;
Mr. COBB-Do you remember the tonnage? I do not know.
A. I have not it in my mind.               Q. How long is your road?
Mr. COBB-Do you remember the compara-   A. One hundred and thirty-five miles.
tive income of the local compared with the   Q. Do you know how many stations there are
through business?                         on your road?
A. Our through business is greater.        A. I do not know exactly; I should say from
Mr. COBB-Can you give the relative profits 18 to 20.




37
Q. What, in your judgment, is the difference   Q. In this case a higher rate on local freight!
between the cost of winter and summer trans-.  A. Yes, sir.
portation?                                    Q. Can a competing line, with a longer route,
A. With us the difference is very little. We fix low prices for you, though they would not
never change our rates in consequence of the be able to carry at as low a cost to themselves as
season of the year.                          you?
Q. State why 2                               A. Yes, sir. A long route can fix rates low
A. The cost of transportation is about the and the short route must carry at the same rates,
same. It may be 10 or 15 per cent more than in or else they cannot get business. The route that
the summer, but the climate is such that we are carries for the lowest rates gets the business.
troubled scarcely any at all with snow, and very   Q. How are the rates on the western and southlittle with hard frozen ground and consequent ern roads-the local tariffs-in comparison with
rigidity of our road-bed. We can do nearly as the local tariffs on the New York lines 2
much business at the same expense in winter as   A. I think they are higher generally. I exin summer.                                   amined some eighteen of these tariffs, and fourQ. So that the Southern routes have that teen of them were higher than the New York
advantage, among others, over Northern routes? Central, and four not far from the same.
A. Yes, sir.                                 Q. Suppose your through business was taken
Q. Suppose a stated tariff was published by from the New York roads, where, in your judgthe New York Central and the New York and ment, according to the present facilities for diverErie, from which they could not vary for a sion by rival lines, would it go 2
month, what would be the effect 2              A. It would go by those routes which would
A. If their tariff was so low that no profit do it to the best satisfaction of the owners of the
could be made, they might retain their share of property. If the rail routes did not offer any
the business; but if it left any margin for profit greater inducements than the canal, it would go
the other routes would bid enough lower to get by the canal. The railroads now reach every
the business. We have had that tried. During point in the west, southwest and northwest, and
the St. Nicholas Compact, under the rule of Mr. the business would take just the same channels
Moran, they gave us fixed rates for freight. At  it now does, provided the southern roads could
Cincinnati and Columbus we met the Southerx  do it; if not, and there was a profit in the busiroads, and we having fixed rates, they woul  ness, they would increase their facilities. I do
vary the price just enough to take the busines  not think it would change the course of trade
from us.                                     as between rail and water.
Q. With what lines do you run in connection?  Q. You think water could not take the trade as
A. The New York Central, the New York and against the rail?
Erie, and to a small extent the Pennsylvania   A. Not if the rail was the best. If the water
Central. Its main connecting road, the Pennsyl- routes were improved, so as to compete with the
vania Central, crosses us nearly in the middle rall they would undoubtedly get more.
of our route.                                  Q. What is the rule on railroads as to freight
Q. Where it crosses your road, what is the being followed by the passenger traffic?
distance to New York by the Pennsylvania   A. I do not know as there is any such rule. The
Central road, as compared with the distance by supposition would be that if a person sent prothe Northern routes and Hudson River 2       perty by a particular route, he would travel that
A. I do not recollect the exact distance but route. There might be inducements to travel
it is a hundred miles nearer by Philadelphia.    that route connected with the sale of his proQ. Much nearer by the Southern route?     perty. If he was sending his property by BalA. Yes, sir.                               timore or Philadelphia, he would naturally inQ. In your judgment, as a railroad man, can quire the state of the markets on those routes.
way business and through business be done, prac-   Q. Do you know what was the action of the
ticably done, at the same rates?            New York roads, prior to 1858, as regards a fixed
A. Taking the business as it now is, with all tariff?
these competing lines, it is impracticable-   A. They generally gave us a fixed tariff.
entirely so. Either one must be done at a loss   Q. When was that system altered?
or the other abandoned.                        A. The first deviation as a rule from that was
Q. In case of the abandonment of one, which, in 1858.
in your judgment, would have to be abandoned'   Q. What was the occasion of that?
A. Each road must judge for itself. The one   A. The competition of the southernlines. The
that was worth the least would be abandoned business was something in this wise.  The
first.                                       southern lines, the Pennsylvania Central for inQ. Suppose the law provided that the road stance, by its own aid, completed or helped to
must carry the way business as it was pre- complete the connecting roads, and by so doing
sented?                                      retained a certain control over the roads, by
A. They would have to abandon the through which they were able to make contracts pro
business.                                    rata. The Baltimore did the same thing in
Q. That would be the only alternative?    helping the Central Ohio, and retained the same
A. Yes, sir.                               control. When that system came to be adopted
Q. If the through business was abandoned, we immediately felt the effects at Columbus, and
what would be the effect on the way business as at various other points, in the competion of these
to rates of tariff on prices.         lines. As the New York lines had given us fixed
A. It would be the same as in any other com- rates, we had in the competition to bear the whole
mercial transaction. If a man is confined to a burden of the reduction ourselves. We then
smaller business, he has to charge a higher pro- appealed to the New York roads to pro rate with
fit on what he does.                         us, as being the only way we could successfully




meet that competition. When  they became   A. About $1.75 a cord —150 cubic feet to the
satisfied that by so doing they could only be cord.
able to compete, they came into the arrange-   Q. What does it come to per mile?
meent.                                        A. I could not now recollect.
Q. It was the result of experience?        Q. Do you know the local rates on the westA. Yes, sir. It was a matter of actual neces- ern roads, your own and others?
sity, or else abandon the business.           A. I have seen them.
Q. What is your location-Cleveland?         Q. How are they in comparison with the local
A. Yes, sir.                              rates on the New York Central and New York
Q. Do you know what facilities the rival lines, and Erie?
north and south, have all through the west for   A. Generally higher.
the solicitation of business?                 Q. Does that apply to all roads west of the
A. They have agencies at all the important New York Central and New York and Erie, and
points; all the sources of business pretty much. running in connection with them?
Cincinnati, Columbus, St. Louis, almost every    A. They are generally higher, so far as I
little town throughout the west that furnishes know.
them business.                                Mr. COBB-Explain what you mean by local
Q. What is the reason that uniformity of rates and through business. Is the tonnage delivered
is now somewhat preserved between the different    th      York Central road at Buffalo for Allilies?                                    bany through business?
A. The reason is that each line is satisfied that   A. Through business.
they can make nothing by reduction; that the   Mr. COBB-Then freight from  Dunkirk to
relative position of competing lines would be New York would be through business?
the same, for if one line reduces the other reduces   A. Yes, sir. I would consider through busialso.                                       ness that which goes over the whole length of
Q. Then the safety of lines in this respect the road.
consists in their ability to change their rates?  Mr. COBB-Say from  Louisville to Boston
A. Yes, sir.                              and New York?
Q. Can all roads competing from  common   A. I put that among through business, and all
points get the same price pro rata per mile?  that passes over the whole length of the road.
A. They cannot. The short roads get more   Mr. COBB-Why is it that that portion of the
A. They cannot. The short roads get more business would have to be abandoned if the
per mile than the long roads. The prices must usiess would have to be abandoned if the
necessarily be the same from  one point to an- pro rata principle was adopted?
other, or there would be no comlpetition.     A. For the reason that to pro rate local rates,
Q. What is the cost of fuel on those southern  to receive property and  transport the same 20
roads, as compared with the cost on the northern miles, at the same rate per mile as in through
roads? State what they burn, and what rela- business, if they charged anything like cost for
tion coal bears to wood.                    transportation, would make the through rates so
A. The managers of the Baltimore and Oh   high that it could get no business.
Mr. COBB —Suppose you had the power to fix
road told me that their fuel cost them 70 cents the compensation yourself, woud the power to fiany
the compensation yourself, would there be any
per ton-merely, the expense of mining and necessity of abandoning it?
moving. The cost of fuel on the northern roads       not know as there would.
I don't know exactly, but I suppose it is from    A. I    do not know as there would.
$3 to $i, or $6 per cord. A ton of coal, with  freight delivered by the Central at Albany that
us, is considered equal to about one cord of you would not have to abandon it?
wood, but whether it bears the same proportion    A. Unless the business could be diverted
in a locomotive, I do not know. On the Penn- from the Central at its source.
sylvania Central road, the same fuel is some-   Mr. COBB-Then your meaning of through
thing about the same. They have the same business would put it back to its source?
kind of coal, and I suppose they get it just as   A. Where there are competing lines.
~jeap.                                        Mr. COBB-Then your remark would apply
Q. Do you know what the consumption of a to the far west; the business between competing
locomotive ordinarily is, for fifty or one hundred  lines, and not immediately at the terminus of
miles, either in coal or wood?             the road?
A. It varies with different locomotives, and    A. Yes, sir, unless there was competition at
with the amount of load they haul.          that terminus.
Q. Say a 20 or 25 ton locomotive?'Mr. COBB-Then if one rule of pro rata apA. Our freight locomotives would burn, be- plied to both competitors it still would save it?
tween Cleveland and Columbus, from three to   A. Yes, sir.
five cords of wood: while a locomotive on a   Mr. COBB-The stocks of your road, I believe,
passenger train would burn from two to four are at par or near it.
cords.                                        A. A trifle less.
Q. You would -burn the most in the freight   Mr. COBB-In your Board of Directors is
train?                                     there any member of the Erie or Central boards?
A. Yes, sir.                                A. No, sir.
Q. How much longer does it take a freight   Mr. COBB-About what relative rate of comtrain to run through than a passenger train?    pensation, compared with other Ohio roads, does
A. About twice as long, perhaps a little your road get for through business-say the Mad
more.                                       River; do you get higher prices than they?
Q. Do you burn coal or wood entirely?      A. Not any higher; probably a little lower per
A. Wood entirely.                         ton per mile, because they receive the same price!Q. What does wood cost you oz your line?   from Sandusky to Cincinnati that we do from




59
Cleveland to Cincinnati, and they have a shorter   Mr. COBB-Would 12 be!
route.                                        A. You must take the question with all its
Mr. COBB-So that you have to run to Col- surroundings. If all our business should be
umbus, Zania and over the Little Miami.    done at that price it would not pay us any profit.
A. We pro rate; but as our road is of greater But an increase of business-a certain amount
length, we get less per tonll per mile.     of through business could be done without any
Mr. COBB-But taking an equal number of material increase of expense.
miles, do you get a higher or a lower scale of   Mr. COBB-Then if all your business was
compensation than the Mad River?           done at that rate, it would not pay?
A. That would depend upon the local tariff.   A. It would not 
Mr. COBB-Take your through tariff from    Mr. COBB-Has your road ever been imporColumbus to Cleveland?                      tuned to discriminate against the canal in freight
A. I think our rates and the Mad River's passing over it?
would be about the same.                      A. I do not recollect anything particular
Mr. COBB-Your local business is very small about that.
compared with your throughl                   Mr. COBB-Was not a proposition made to
A. About one-half.                        your road to discriminate in the prices you
Mr. COBB-I believe that your passenger should charge between property consigned to a
trains run at a pretty high rate of speed?  Buffalo forwarder and property consigned to the
A. Yes, sir.                              Central Railload?
Mr. COBB-Have you ever made a computa-   A. I made a propositio;o   the other roads
tion of the cost of moving a passenger train, com-  something to that effect. IThe prices were very
pared with cost of transporting a ton of freight? low and our pro rata on til   road was not a reA. The wear and tear of rail is impossible to muneration. We proposed to the New York
come at; but the wear and tear of machinery we roads to advance these rates and that the canals
know.                                       should advance at the same time. I saw somne of
Mr. COBB-Have you ever made an approxi- the canal forwarders and they consent.cd to admate estimate?                              vance; but the New York roads had no confiA. I do not know that I have; it costs more, deuce that the canals would sustain the rates.
the greater the speed.                      I then said we will protect ycu in this wise: we
AMr. COBB-Then the mathematical rule holds will give the canals the same rates, and if they
good on railroads as elsewhere-that the higher cut these rates we will adva e the rates on them,
the speed the greater the resistance, and the as they reduce themn on you
more wear and tear?                          Mr. COBB-Who objected to going into this
A. Yes, sir.                              arrangement?
Mr. COBB-And the lower speed the less re-   A. It was generally objected to by railroad
sistance and the less wear and tear?        transporters, on the ground that they had not
A. Yes, sir.                              any confidence in the canals.
Mr. COBB-If not deemed impertinent, and   Mr. COBB-Where did that occur? —at the
you choose to answer it, will you state how low  Niagara Falls convention?
is your lowest through rate, at which you have   A. I think not.
pro rated this summer, between your place and   Mr. COBB-Where did it, then?
Louisville or Cincinnati, on a ton or a hundred   A. I made the proposition last fall, or perhaps
pounds?                                    it may have been in August.
A. I was informed that one lot of freight went   Mr. COBB-The canal people assented but
through from Cleveland to Cincinnati at 8 cents the rail oad people refused to concur?
per hu;dred pounds.                           A. I did lot say they assented. They were
Mr. COBB —Has the bulk of your through anxious to have an advance, but the railroads
freight gone this summer to New York or Boston, had 1no confidence in the "wild boatme,"
at anythinlg near that figue?                 Mr. COBB-Did the B ate      i     io urge
A. The whole season through averaged from  the same arrangement?
15 to 17 cents per hundred pornlds.           A. They wanted an advance.
IMr. COBB-How was it upon cattle?           Mr. COBB-Were they any more willing to
A. Our rates this season has e been less than a trust the canal forwarders?
year ago.                                     A. I do not know.
Mr. COBB —What is the lowest that you have   Mr. COBB-lDid they express faith in the
received per car this summer?              canal forwarders?
A. I should think the lowest price would pay   A. I do not recollect that anything was said
us $20 from Columbus to Cleveland?         about the forward&rs. They said that while a
Mr. COBB-Have inot some roads carried to few of the lines w ald keep to the rates, there
Cleveland chea; er than that      7  were a good manyewa ld boatmen who could not
A. The competition from Chicago and west be controlled, and rho wo kd not adhere to any
has been greater than on our road. Our compe- prices unlder the aareement.j
tition is not very great on cattle.           Mr. COBB-Did the Network roads propose
AMr. COBB-How low have you known cattle to your road that a different price should be
to come from Chicago to Cleveland by rail   made by your road for freights that came by
A. I could not state in figures; I know that railroads than on those which came by canal,
they were carried below cost.               and that you should discriminate against the
Mr. COBB-Do you consider 8 cents per canal?
hundredl from Columbus to Cleveland cost      A. I do not know of any proposition of that
A. No, sir.                               kiud being made to me.
Mr. COBB-Do you consider 15 cents cost?    Mr. COBB-Did you make any to them I
A. Yes, sir..                                  NO, air.




40
Mr. HOVEY-You have haa some knowledge this year on fourth class goods by competition
of canal business in this State?            between the canals and railroads than by comA. Yes, sir.                               petition between the railroads.
Mr. HOVEY-Abcut what was the tonnage of   Mr. ALLEN-Are you acquainted with the
canal boats when you left?                  value of Pennsylvania capital stock?
A. Line boats, 1 believe, were something like   A. I have seen quotations of its stock, but I
30 tons.                                     cannot tell what they were..Mr. HOVEY-Take Crestline, the crossing-   Mr. ALLEN-Can you approximate?
point of yours and the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne   A. A little below par-from 40 to 45, on shares
and Chicago road; could property be transport- of $50. The Baltimore and Ohio I don't recoled by that route as cheap as it could be thence lect what the value is.
to Cleveland, by lake to Buffalo, by canal to   Q. How about Mad river?
Albanv and steamboat to New York, in a canal   A. I cannot tell.
boat of 250 tons?                             Q. Has there been any dividends on PennsylA. My impression is it could not. It certainly vania Central?
would be transported cheaper from Cleveland.   A. I think there has.
Mr. HOVEY-Do you think there would be   Q. They keep up the dividinds?
any'danger of the diversion of trade from the   A. I think So.
canals by the railroad lines from Crestline to
New York in competition with the canal?
A. I think there would.                     MIr. M. B. SPAULDING, a forwarder, of New
Mr. HOVEY —You think it mightb?           York, was next examined as a witness byMr.
A. You might carry it cheaper, but they would Thompson, as follows:
carry it quicker.                  Q. What is your occupation?
carry it quicker.                              A. I am in the forwarding business.
Mr. IIOVEY-I am speaking of fourth-class   Q. Where do you reside?
freight?                                      Q. Where do you reside?
freight?
A. We can only judge from what they have   A. In the city of New York.
done. They do carry cheap, and do get busi- Q. How long have you been engaged in the
ness.                                       forwarding business?
Mr. HOVEY-How  do you manage to get   A. Twenty-five years.
Q. On what routes?
freight from Cincinnati to Cleveland, thence to   A. Over the routes of the State of New Yor.
go by the New York Central or the canal, if they    Q. To what points 
compete with you at Crestline?                A. To what poiats?
A. We do it at the same price as they, and   A. To the  esa            in the outhwest.
upon as good terms, and in as good time.     tra. With the principal ines i  the course of
Mr. HOVEY-You think there is no danger of transi      r.
diversion?                                     A. Yes, sir.
A. No, sir. At the same prices.              Q. You have freighted by railroads as well as
Mr. HIOVEY-How would it be at Fort Wayne by canals?
and Toledo, on the Wabash and Western Rail-   A. Yes, sir.
road-a hundlred miles fr om Cleveland?         Q. Will you state in your judgment what is
A. I do not think there is any particular the cost of through as compared with way
danger of diversion, so long as the New York freight?
roads can do it as cheap and as well as the Penn-   A. My knowledge would be only general on
sylvania Central.                           that subject. But the way freight would cost
Mr. HOVEY-I understood you that they can very much largel than the through.
do it as cheap.                               Q. Does that apply to all modes of transporA. They have done it.                     tation-ocean, river and canal?
Mr. ALLEN-Of the different modes of trans-   A. Yes, sir.
portation from these points, mentioned by Mr.   Q. Short routes pay larger than smaller ones
Hovey, Cleveland, Toledo, Crestline, &c., inclu-ito be remunerative?
ding the receiving and forwarding, which do you
think the cheapest method of transportation    Q. Do you know  what the practice of the
A. I think the              canal wouldhas been in the mode of discrimination;
I think it is cheaper by water than by rail, but how  it has  been between longer and shorter
it depends very much on the condition of the routes
~~~~~Erie canal.  ~A. Highler rates have been charged on canals
Mr. ALLEN-Then, in your opinion, during
the season of navigation, the canal is the regu- Q. Is that the universal practice?
lator of these prices?                        A. Yes, sir.
A. I think so.                               Q. On the Hudson river, canal and rail you
Q. On what class of merchandise?          say that is so?
A. On heavy goods.                          A. To the best of my knowledge it is.
Q. So that the canals keep our rates down?  Mr. CONKLING-Does that discrilation apA. Yes, sir.                              pear to be inseparable in all modes of commuQ. Supposing the canal tolls were raised, what lication, whether by land or water-has it been
woul ps be the effect on railload freights?  the case in ll11 you have known anything about?
A. I think the freights in the lower class
A. I think the freights in the lowver class   A. I do not recollect of any exceptions to that.
would be advanced.                             Q. What is your judgment in reference to a
Mr. liOVEY-Suppose tolls were put on the published tariff at the west, of the prices of
railroad freights also?                     freight on thle New York roads which cannot be
A. Tile same rule swould apply.           departed from for 30 days. What would be the
A. I think that the rates are reduced lower effect on through freights to the west and east?




41
A. The lines confined to these fixed rates COST OF TRANSP5RTATION UNDER A PRO RATA
would be likely to get little or no business.                 REGULATION.
Q. Have you made an examinatiol in refer-                             Rates per ton per mile at
ence to the local rates on the New York Cen-                            Scentscellt.  5cents.
tral railroad, for produce and all freights carried   5 miles. —------------------    15    20  25
as compared with the local rates on other roads  10  - ---—. —--------------    30    40  50
in different parts of the country  20                         -             60     8    100
40    --------— 1 20   1 60   2 00
A. I have on a few.                          so    --------------------   2 40   3 20   4 
Q. I would like the result of that examination oo00 " —-------------------   3 00   4 00   5 00
on the important freight routes?              200                        6 00   8 00  10 00
300  " ----------  9 00  12 00  15 00
A. I have taken 12 or 14 of the large freight 400      -----------  --- 12 00  16 00  20 00
roads and I have compared the rates from one 450  " -13 00  18 00  22 50
of the termini, a distance of 100 miles, which    I have made a computation exhibiting the
is one-third of the length of the New York Cen- effects of a pro rata law in giving advantages to
tral road. The rates are contained in this table: those places which, by means of water commnunication, afford western produce a means of getting
to New York with less rail transportation.
a      S 00 t, -  t, 00  0      The distance from  Albany to Buffalo is 300
__  _ _   miles, fronrrRochester 229 and from  Oswego
183 miles. [The cost of transporting grain frolm
I. Dca.c co C3A = i C C: CD C  Cleveland t&Buffalo by lake is three cents per
0..                                      bushel; elevating at Buffalo, one cent; canal
o~,     M  -4 o, -- Cr   cD C> o ~ O  transportation to Rochester, four cents; making
co,-~ c; r -,1O al Cq Cq', C,-q r-1   tC  c CO C, r-4
5u                                   eight cents from Cleveland to Rochester. Cost
mew,.,,,, m,,,,,,., hh              of lake transportation to Oswego from Cleveland
M  ~ It,r- -Itc    r- M CI   to 0 o  o
C    CA  C C c CO  C C                     is six cents per bushel; elevating at Oswego one
I  cent; making seven cents, or one cent in favor of
co I'   - co e   C to 0 cl c:     0 t    r  Osweo over Rochester, where the wheat is to be
_________    ____     ~         ground  Under a pro rata, the cost of flour on:p',::      g,::::::: rail from  Rochester to Albany, 229 miles, at
&:4 ~            i::'-    three cents per ton per mile, is seventy-four cents
m' |         -:..: o       per barrel; same from  Oswego to Albany, 183:X  I.o         ~  o         miles, at same rate. forty-five cents, a margin
bf ie -eZ;rein favor of Oswego of twenty-nine cents. The cost
-1 |    24 Ads ~-,E 4           of flour from Buffalo to Albany, 300 miles, at
~ 5: o+    o ~  o O      o     three cents per ton per mile, is ninety-seven;  C m o-  0        I2  cents.  From  Oswego to Albany, 183 miles, at'~ =~ 2.~ o:S         same rate, fifty-nine  cents-a margin of thirtyj4?a a  cor;~    ~ ~s  y  C    > eight cents in favor of Oswegro. The distance
pZ <z ~<z2 v~a;v S;from New York to  _mit                     ls, on the New
vZ _   __           0York and Erie road, js 449 fiil;  distance from:' i:., o:.             Srmith's mills to D -irk 12 miles. The cost of'':':::::::::        transp o'ng    poundts oTfTurth class freight,:: t::::::,,,,,,. ^  from New York to Smith's mills, at three cents
S i~.. =.,,,,.,. r.   per ton per mile, would be sixty-seven cents.:I  N: =:':.       Cost of the same from Smith's mills to Dunkirk,
I::~.~: ~::': a:::2     12 miles, at same rates, would be one cent and:: *   =:*   cm:..  eight mills. Butter and cheese are now carried.V, _: ~.,: tX.. - of: e  from Little Falls to Albany 74 miles, at seventeen
0 ct-; -_:-'Z            cents per 100 pounds, or about 5 cents per ton
>n4e*:;5 -  >.JO,.   O S  per mile. At this rate the cost from  Smith's
w.  i. mills to New York, on the New York and Erie,
V.     ) --'-" ) 5o    -  would be $1.12 per hundred pounds.
-%;~ 5~m2 2~, 0 ~~tpt ~        Mr. CONKLING —Do you say that the present
e A 2 ~. ~.  = ~rate on the New York Central is 5 cents per ton,
per mile.?- ~:;;.> X- ~ ~A. That is the present local rate.
-_ _ _._ o;~.I  Zo H             Mr. CONKLING-Is it not an unusually high
rate?
Q. How many of these are higher than the    A. That is $3.40 per ton, from Little Falls to
New York Central.                             Albany.
A. I think they are all higher, except the    Mr. COBB-You have paid pretty close atCleveland and Columbus.                        tention to this subject of transportation, and the
Q. Have you made any computation in regard  political economy which pertains to the moveto the effect of a pro rata law in this state upon  ment of these things?
any particular locality, and if so state how it   A. I have been engraged in the business
would operate upon the two lines of this state?    Mr. COBB-You have written some articles
A. The computations I have are very brief which have been published?
owing to the limited time I have had.            A. I have written some and talked some.
Q. Will you read your statement?              Mr. COBB-Are you the author of a publlicaA. I have made a computation of the cost of tion which appeared over the signature of "New
the transportation of flour at three, four and five York," with these views?
cents per ton per mile, which is as follows:      A. That is a private matter.




42
Mr. COBB-Is it your opinion that a pro rata   A. I have not. I have no recollection of any
measure would work prejudicially to Buffalo?   going as low as 24 cents.
A. I only show the figures.                Mr. COBB-Has common rumor brought any
Mr. COBB-It would appear so from them?   thing of that kind to your knowledge?
A. Yes, sir.                               A. We hear a great many things upon which
Mr. COBB-Is there any inference that wheat we place no dependence.
would take the rail at Rochester after being   Mr. COBB-Have you never contracted, during
made into flour?                          the past season, from  New York to Chicago, at
A. The owner would consult his own interest 21 cents?
in regard to that.                          A. No, sir. I do not do much Chicago busiQ. At what rate do you think railroad trans- ness.
portation could be made profitable from Buffalo   Mr. COBB-Have you to Milwaukee?
to Albany, per ton, per mile?               A. No, sir. My business lies more on the
A. There are various circumstances which south side of Lake Erie.
might be called into question, which materially   Mr. COBB-What have been your lowest
increase or decrease the cost of transportation rates to Cleveland, Sandusky and Toledo?
between those points.                        A. The lowest rate to Cleveland was 22 cents.
Mr. COBB-Are you the New York freight      r. COBB-The same to Toledo?
agent of the New York Central?              A. All the lake ports are the same —Detroit,
A. No, sir.                              Cleveland, &c.
Mr. COBB —What road are you connected   Mr. COBB-Do you know what proportion
with, if a      any     a                  the lake received of that?
A. I ship goods over the Central, and I am    A. Probablyadollaraton.
connected with the Sandusky, Dayton and Cin-   Mr. COBB-That would leave the New York
cinnati road.                              Central railroad 12 cents a hundred.
Mr. COBB-You ship over the New York   A. These are exceptions to the general rule,
Central?                                 made in cases of extreme competition.
A. Yes, sir.                               Mr. COBB —How long was that exceptional
Mr. COBB-Is that road an ally of the Cen- style of business prevalent?
tral?                                      A. A month or two.
A. She is an ally with other roads in con-   Mr. COBB-Did it extend to July "and Aunection. We use the Pennsylvania Central, the gust?
New York and Erie and the New York Central.   A. Not one day after the 15th of June.
Mr. COBB-But f, om the opening of the canal
Mr. COBB-You have a pretty intimate ac- to that day tile exception and not the general
quaintance with the rates which have been re  rule prevailed 
ceived for transportation from New York to the   A. Yes, sir.
upper lake ports?                         Mr. COBB-Did you contract any goods over
A. Yes, sir.                             Central road to Buffalo?
Mr. COBB-What have been the lowest and   A. I did if I had the opportunity.
highest rates on fourth class freight taken the   Mr. COBB-H-ave you had the opportunity?
past season by rail and lake to Chicago?    A. I do not recollect of making a contract to
A. I could hardly go behind the tariff. There Buffalo this year.
have undoubtedly been special contracts, of   Mr. COBB-Did you to Rochester or Syrawhich I have no knowledge.                cuse?
Mr. COBB-I ask within your range of know-   A. If I had the opportunity.
ledge?                                     Mr. COBB-Did you have the opportunity?
A. Probably 28 to 60 cents.               A. I do not recollect of any.
Mr. COBB-That is the lowest you have   Mr. COBB-What were the lowest rates for
known?                                   which you contracted goods to Cincinnati, durA. From 27 to 28 and 30 cents a hundred
~~~~~~pounds.  ~ing the months of April, May or June?
~~p0"ou~~~~nds.                 ~A. Thirty-four cents I think.
Mr. COBB —What would that give to the New    Mr. COBB-What route would that take 
York Central in a pro rata division as they have   A. Hudson river to Albany, rail to Buffalo,
pro rated this sumnmer P                  lake to Sandusky, and rail to Cincinnati.
A. It would depend altogether what they got
for the lake transportation.                Mr. COBB-What proportion of that would
Mr. COBB-Have you any knowledge as to the road  from  Sandusky to Cincinnati rewhat the division has been?              ceive 
A. I thinkl they would get 20 cents?     A. They would receive a pro rata proportion
Mr. COBB-From Albany to Buffalo?       according to the distance.
A. From New York to B;fifalo.             Mr. COBB —Would the lake share in that pro
Mr. COBB-What would the Hudson river rata?
get by barge?                              A. No, sir.
A. I snuppose about five cents.           Mr. COBB-Then the compensation on the
Mr. COBB-What would the Hudson river
railroad get?                              A. It is so usually, though sometimes it vaA. I am not familiar with that division, hav  ries.
ing had lnothling to do with it?           Mr. COBB-Then the difference between 34
Mr. COBIB —lave you not known, during cents and the cost of river and lake transportaJune and July, considerable quantities of goods tion would be pro rated between the Ohio road
taken from New York to Chicago at 22 and 24 and the New York Central?
cents?                                     A. Yes, sir.




43
Mr. COBB-Can you remember the sum paid being $236.25. On the 26th of December we
over the Ohio road?                         received from  the Swiftsure Line 180 barrels
A. No, sir, I cannot.                     at the same rates, the charges being $157.30. by
Mr. COBB-Can you remember the sum re-   [This testimony refers to a charge made by
ceived by the Central?                      Mr. Parsons, based upon a letter of Jesse Hoyt
A. If I knew that I could tell the other.  & Co., of New York, that the New York Central
Mr. COBB-At what rates have you contracted Railroad had received 87, cents for the transgoods from New York to Dayton?              portation of flour from Pittsford to New York,
A. To Dayton and Cincinnati the rates are while the charges from Rochester to New York
about the same.                             were but 60 cents per barrel. REPORTER.]
Mr. COBB-How are they to Columbus?         Q. That was the flour referred to by Mr. ParA. Two or three cents less than to Cincinnati. sons?
There is a very strong competition between Day-   A. Yes, sir.
ton and Columbus.                             Q. Have you any estimate in your mind of the
Mr. COBB-How are they to West Liberty on  difference in the cost of transportation of way
the line of the Mad river?                 and through freight on your own road especially.
A. They pay local rates.                    A. I have.
Mr. COBB-How as to Miamisburgh or Frank-   Q. What is your judgment upon that subject?
lin?                                         A. I think the difference in cost of transportA. That is on the Dayton and Hamilton road. ing the way freight, as compared to the through,
We only make a price to Dayton when we have is equal to 50 per cent.
goods to those places.                        Q. How is it in reference to the summer and
Mr. COBB-Then where there'is no competing winter business-which is the most expensive?
route local rates prevail?                    A. It is much more expensive on our road in
A. We take them to the nearest point.     the winter.
Mr. COBB-What proportion would the New    Q. Why so?
York Central get on goods shipped to West Lib-   A. On account of the snow, cold weather,
erty?                                      wear and tear of machinery, switching, &c.
A. The same as they would on goods shipped    Q. What, to the best of your judgment, is the
to Dayton.                                  additional cost of way freight or a through.
Mr. ALLEN-I wish to make an inquiry.   A. I think it is at least 50 per cent, for this
You have given a statement of the values of reason: We have to start our way trains with
transportation to and from  different points, comparatively no freight and pick it up in the
Rochester and Oswego, stating that at three mills manner that has been explained to you by other
per mile per ton, the cost of flour to Oswego witnesses.
would be 45 cents, and the cost to Rochester   Q. You have to have a larger complement of
would be 74 cents. You give also the transpor- cars for your winter than for your summer busitation from Cleveland to Buffalo and Oswego. ness?
Now comparing one at eight and the other at   A. Yes, sir.
seven cents, I want to know what we are to de-   Q. Explain the cause of that? 
duce from that idea. What was the idea to be   A. Our business is much larger in winter than
conveyed to the minds of the committee?     in summer. The result of it is, we have to have
A. I merely stated the fact that under a pro a larger portion of it for winter service and a
rata the fixed rate per ton per mile would pro- smaller portion for the summer service.
duce that result.                              Q. State what your habit and practice is, and
must be, running for freight in the. summer season in competition with the Hudson River boats?
SMITH BRIGGS, freight agent of the Hudson   A. We have no fixed rates at all, but change
River railroad, was the next witness. He testified 20 times a day, if need be.
as follows, the examination being conducted by   Q. Why!
Mr. Thompson:                                 A. Because of competing with the boats. We
Q. What is your place of residence and occu- go into the market for the business.
pation?                                        Q. Is it not necessary in the summer to keep
A. I reside in Albany, and am  freight agent up your organization for freight business the
of the Hudson River Railroad Company.       same as in winter when you have a larger quanQ. How long have you been engaged in that tity?
business?                                     A. It is.
A. Six years.                               Q. That is the experience on your road?
Q. Have you investigated the facts in reference   A. That is the rule adopted.
to the rates charged on the flour from Pittsford,   Q. Do you recollect how many landings there
referred to in the letter of Jesse Hoyt & Co, were, years ago, which were accustomed to send
about which Mr. Parsons made charges, and if rival lines of boats down? 
so what are the facts?                       A. I was not at that time fully acquainted with
A. On the 20th of December I received from  the localities, but there were a great number to
the Swiftsure Line of wh       ford &       my knowledge.
ar          e or',  arrel's of flour, consignied   Q. Did those local boats send both freight
to Jesse  oy & Co., from Fisher's station on the and passengers 1
New York Central road. On that flour the   A. Yes, sir, and they are still doing so.
charges were 52 cents per barrel.  Van San-   Q. In the carrying of your freight. have you
ford's charges for commissions, cartage, &c., any reference to the procurement and transporwere 52 cents per barrel, and our local rates, ta ion of passengers and getting them  off the
from East Albany to New York, were 30 cents rival lines of boats?
per barrel, making 871 cents; the whole bill   A. We have.




44
Q. State how it operates with these boats in and long freights, say from here to Schenectady,
carrying passengers?                       as compared from here to Buffalo?
A. At all these localities where these boats   A. I cannot give the exact figures, it was very
run, to and from Albany, they do a great deal large, from 45 to 50 per cent. We always made
of trading and marketing; if we get that trade, our rates on short distances much higher than
we get the passengers-the parties doing that on long distances.
trade. In so doing, we take their freight at the   Q. On the better classes of freight is not the
same rates that the boat offers, whatever they risk on the transportation of property greater
may be; we consider it for our interest to do so. on the short routes than on the long ones-the
Q. What would be the effect of compelling danger of misdelivery, &c.-the amount of
the Hudson River road to fix a tariff of prices, damage to be paid in case of loss?
unalterable for a month, between New York and   A. Yes, sir, the danger of misdelivery is
Albany?                                    greater by the frequent opening of the cars.
A. We could do nothing at all.              Mr. COBB-Why do you esteem it necessary
Q. How would it affect your cattle trade?  to compete with Hudson River transportation?
A. We could not touch it.                   A. To maintain our identity and keep up our
Q. Would it, in your judgment, destroy the businessconnection
trade of all the four classes of freight trans-   Mr. COBB-Do you esteem yourselves able to
~ported on your road?~ cope with the Hudson River successfully.
A. It would, in my judgment.                A. We have done so very well.
Q.  Will you state the custom o the Harlem    Mr. COBB-What is the value of your stock'. Will yHud son River r oads, with referenc te  Haem    A. I think it is 41. I have not looked lately.
and Hudson River roads, with reference to theyou get for cattle
carriage of milk to the city of New York?What price did you get for cattle
A. We commence at Castleton, 20 miles below  during the summer, per car?
Albany, and pick the milk up at differe nt sta- Mr. CWe haOBve-Do you taken them that compensating car.
tions until within 20 miles of New York; we   Mr. COBB-Doyouesteem       compensating
charge the same rate per gallon from Castleton   A.. COBB-Then cattle at.
to New York as we do at all the stations below —r. COBB-Then cattle at that price you do
three cents per gallon; I think it is the same on not consider compensating?
the Harlem.                                   A. We consider it compensating rather than
~~~the Harlem. ~~~~lose the business.
Q. The same train that startsfrom here stops lose ther. COBB-How so?iness.
at all of these milk stations and takes on the   Ar.COBB-How so?
~~~~~~cans?~~ qA. We don't want business to go from us.
A. Yes, sir.                                Mr. COBB-You would rather do it at $5 per
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So that the station 20 miles this side of car, than lose it?
New York, takes the train from here, and pays   A. Yessi. We have done that business ever
as much as is paid on the milk from Castleton? since I havs e   n road, The probably not
A. Yes, sir. A gallon of milk weighs about as low as the present year. The present year
has been an exception.
12 pounds.                                    Mr. COBB —To all previous years?
Q. What would be the effect of a pro rata   Mr. COBB-To allpreviousyears
regulation on the milk trade?                 A. Yes, sir.
A. You can judge. It could not be carried.  Mr. COBB-Do you esteem it costs more to
A.YQou ca. It  ould sour the   carried. trin'Ideliver a car load of property at Sing Sing than
Q. It would sour the whole train         it does at Albany?
A. It would be apt to. It would bring the   A. I think it does.
price of transportation to $20 to $30 per ton   Mr. COBB-How as to Hudson?
from the upper end. The milk trade is a pretty   A. A fnll car load?
important trade with us.                      Mr. COBB-Yes, sir.
Q. If present rates were continued, as the   A. I judge it would not.
rates from Castleton, would the milk be worth   Mr. COBB-But you think to Sing Sing it
handling as freight under a pro rata?       would 
A. No, sir; the larger portion of our milk   A. A through train would go through. We
business is done from the lower end.        would have to put this on the way.
Q. What is the practice on all roads, north   Mr. COBB-How many cars could you add to
and south, and on the river, as to these through a locomotive without increasing the expense?
and way rates-are the latter larger than the   A. I supposy that every car added to a train
former?                                    increases the expense.
A. That is our practice. We get larger rates   Mr. COBB-Then it would cost more to take
for way than for through freights, per ton, per it from New York to Albany, than from New
mile.                                       York to Sing Sing?
Q. Is that so on the river?                A. Those cars all go on the way freight trains
A. It is so.                              and not in the through trains at all. We start our
Q. Do they not charge as much per barrel for local trains about one o'clock with a passenger
flour from New York to Sing Sing, as from New  car attached. We pick up some passengers, but
York to Albany?                            we seldom have a full car load.
A. They charge more. That is the case with   Mr. COBB-How low have you carried beef
us, and it is so with the boats too, sir.   from Buffalo to New York by the hundred or
Q. Was it so on the canal in your experience barrel?
there?                                       A I think it has been as low as a dollar a ton
A. When I was on the canal it was so. I left -5 cents a hundred.
the canal six years ago.                      Mr. COBB-Do you esteem that remunerative?
Q. What was the difference according to your   A. In a certain degree, I do.
best recollection, on the canal, between short   Mr. COBB-But on its merits?




45
A. Our business from  New York is much   Mr. COBB-It is a purely local business?
larger than our down business, and consequent-   A. Yes, sir.
ly we do not have loads for our cars and we   Mr. COBB-And must be done at rates peck,
have to send them empty to bring goods up, or liar to itselt'?
else take freight at a low figure. If we can get   A. Yes, sir.
ten tons in a car and charge $10 per car it is   Mr. COBB-You could not bring it a long disbetter than to run our cars empty.          tance and have it valuable when it arrived Ia
Mr. COBB-Do you compete in down freight market?
such as flour, with the Hudson River?        A. I should judge not.
A. We have never done that by rail.         Mr. COBB-Is there any other article of simib
Mr. COBB-How low would you put the point lar character?
of compensation before you would esteem  it   A. We carry dressed meat. We have transbetter to give it up than to carry it?     ported 80,000 dressed sheep for one man last
A. Ten cents a barrel.                    year.
Mr. COBB-You would rather give it up than   Mr. COBB-In refrigerator cars?
carry it below ten cents a barrel?           A. No, sir. But in cars built for the purpose,
A. Yes, sir.                             in which they can be hung.
Mr. COBB-Do you run in connection with   Mr. SMITH-Do you estimate the cost of way
the New York Central?                       business to be 50 per cent over through?
A. Yes sir.                                 A. Yes, sir. That includes all classes of way
Mr. COBB-I believe the Harlem road is to- business.
tally within the state?                      Mr. SMITH-How much more would it cost
A. Yes, sir.                             to do way business than through, provided the
Mr. COBB-You stated that if a pro rata bill way business was done by the car load?
was passed it wculd injure you;-suppose it ap-   A. If it was done by the car load it would re.
plied to both?                             duce the expense very much.
A. If it applied to through freight, we could   Mr. SMITH-It would?
not touch it. Our freight from New York to   A. Yes. If we knew just exactly how much
Albany, with the central in the winter time, we we were going to get at every station when we
consider compensates.                       started, and what we were going to deliver.
Mr. COBB-Taking the season through?        Mr. SMITH-There is a good deal of this busiA. We consider that it compensates.       ness done on other roads?
Mr. COBB —Do you pro rate with the Central   A. On our road it is picked up in all kinds of
on its Western contracts?                  little parcels.
A. In the winter we do.                     Mr. CONKLING —In how small parcels?
Mr. COBB-Do not you in the summer?          A. Quite small. Bundles and baskets and
A. No, sir; we would like to, though.     all sorts. Peopleliving in the country and doing
Mr. COBB-That freight takes the river dur- business in New York send them up by the local
ing the summer?                            trains.
A. Yes, sir.                                Q. What would be the effect of a pro rat*
Mlr. COBB-Do the Hudson river and Harlem  freight law upon the express business?
roads charge the same prices?                A. In my judgment it would be to discontinue
A. They have in a measure this winter. Last it entirely.
winter we were rival routes, and we went in and
got the best we could.                                       ALBANY, January 30, 1860.
Mr. COBB-You went in on your nerve? N. RANDALL. Esq.:
[Laughter.]                                   Dear Sir-With less promptness than I could
A. Yes, sir, on our nerve.                wish, but as soon as my business permitted, I
Mr. COBB-Which do you think the best able obeyed your message of the 23d, addressed to
to do that on the nerve?                   me at Chicago, and hastened to this city to state,
A. We consider ourselves.                 as you requested, my views to the House of ReMr. COBB-But your present winter rates you presentatives of your State, having charge of
consider are compensating?                 the petitions and proposed legislation, in accordA. We do.                                 ance with the prayer of the petitioners, to esMr. COBB-Can you tell what it is per ton per tablish and inaugurate " A pro rata freight
mile; take the average of it?               policy on your Railroad." On my arrival in this
A. I have not computed it and I cannot tell city, I found the hearing of the case before the
you at present; I can give you our through rates. committee on behalf of the Railroads had closed,
Mr. COBB-What is your relative tonnage, and the committee listening to counsel, repreway and through?                           senting the petitioners.
A. From way sta ions to way stations?      I gave attention to the arguments adduced by
Mr. COBB-What is strictly way tonnage?    said counsel, and have since read, in part, the
A. Our way business would be largest.     report of evidence introduced on behalf of roads.
Mr. COBB-What proportion?                I regret, on my own account, that circumstances
A. About one-half larger.                 prevented my responding to your call in time to
Mr. COBB-Then your through business would have listened to the testimony given by men of
be one-third.                               such wide experience and well-known capacity,
A. I am not giving you any thing accurate; I on this most interesting and important subject,
am only estimating.                         With the conclusions and most of the reasons
Mr. COBB-This milk business must be limit- given in support of those conclusions, as stated
ed? You could not bring milk from Ohio, or by the gentlemen called before the committee, s
the western part of the state?             most fully concur.
A. We could not.                            My experience in the handling of freights by




46
rail, commencing in 1838, has been altogether in be no other outlets for the products of industry,
the West, from which the long freights of the the road will soon have nothing to carry; proN. Y. Roads are gathered. During thelast eight ducts will cease.  Second, the tariff of r ates
years in Chicago, and during the last five years must not exceed, with the element of time conI have had charge of the Chicago, Burlington  sidered, the rates by which these products can
and Quincy railway, having a terminus at Bur- be otherwise transported.  This would defeat
lington, Iowa, on the Mississippi, and another revenue entirely. Third, when the tariff on way
terminus at Quincy; also, on the Mississippi freight is made with an intelligent appreciation
nearly opposite the Hannibal and St. Joseph  of, and a due regard to these simple principles,
railroad, leading to the Missouri at St. Joseph. the question to be settled is, what amount have
All the long or through business coming to our you got? Does the revenue thus arising meet
line, is taken from the strong competition of the all the demands for repairing and maintenance
Mississippi river fleets, who have long held un- of road, rolling stock, and payment of interest,
disputed sway on that noble stream, since the with a fair return to your stockholders? In our
inauguration of steam  has driven off the flat case, the answer is in the negative.
boats.                                            Then comes the question, can you add to this
Until a very recent period, this competition has income by long freights? In our case we could
not feared the influence of railroads on the com- by competing with the great inland highway of
merce that enriched and strengthened it.  Of our nation, the Mississippi river. But we could
course, this has been a stronger competition than  not reach a pound of that freight at the rate per
can be presented by any artificial communica- ton per mile of way freight. Would it do to
lion, no tolls to be exacted, no right of way to carry it less as a medium  of revenue? Would
be secured.                                    it do to transport it less as a matter of justice to
From the Falls of St. Anthony to the Gulf, ax- shippers of way freight? And here lies the
cept in extreme cases of drought, the navigation  whole question: If these two questions are
for eight months, and for most of the distance answered in the affirmative, and, more, if it is
the whole twelve months, was uninterrupted. shown to have been our duty to our way freight
Not only so, but by means of the Ohio, a shorter shippers to reach out after long freight, even at
rail connection was made with the Atlantic, via a less rate per mile than we carry way freight,
Wheeling and Pittsburgh, than can be made ly the question is solved.  We decided that it
the northern routes which has compelled the would do to carry it less as a matter of revenue,
managers of the Mississippi river lines, centering for the reason that the cost of carrying it was
in Chicago, especially the Chicago, Burlington  greatly less.
and Quinlcy line, to meet this question of through.(The depreciation of all wooden structures of
and way rates, and decide what line of policy railroad bridges, ties, station buildings, sliding
would best subserve the interests of the com- of banks, filling up of ditches, and the expense
munity through which it was built, and the of a large number of men, are not materially instockholders owning it.                         creased by additional business.
The result to which we have come, and the    The difference in expense in the transportation
practice we maintain, and the reasons for our of through and way freight, is real, substantial,
course, perhaps will as well express my views of and not imaginary, and although it may not be
the proposed pro rata measure, now agitated at demonstrated with mathematical accuracy, it is
Albany, as direct answers to any set of interro- believed to he at least 33 per cent less. It fol-,gtions that may be put.                        lows, then, of course, that if I transport a given
Looking upon the line in a twofold aspect, number of tons of way freight a given number
as a convenience and necessity to the community  of miles, and receive therefor $100, and the opof the State of Illinois, through which it passes, erating expenses were $50, and transport the
and as an investment for its stockholders, who  same number of tons of long freight the same
iare eptitled to a fair return upon their invest- number of miles, and receive therefor only $50,
mentf4he question how it can be made best to the operating  expenses for which were only
subserve both their interests must be met. If it $33.33, that I have made $16.67 to go to income
is so managed as to disregard either the one or account. This is put as an extreme case. It is
the other of these aspects, its directory is faith- seldom, perhaps, that the line is compelled to
less to its trust. For, if it does not subserve in carry long freight at half the price of way freight
a proper manner the interests and convenience per mile.  As a medium of revenue, then, it is
of the public, it cannot long be profitable to its clear that a road may carry long freight at a less:stockholders; and if for a series of years it shall rate than way freight. As a matter of justice to
be so manaaed as to ignore reasonable returns to the shipper of way freight, it seemed our imperaits stockholders, it will cease to exist to be run tive duty, in operating the Burlington and Quincy
as corporate property. In that event, the State line, to reach after this long freight, because by
having all the advantage of it, may well be so much profit as we could thus make, we were
called upon to assume its ownership, and the enabled to bring the way freight from competing
peop e who are benefited respond by payment points cheaper. Neither does it change the relaof taxes to support it. It is evident that the tive value of the farms of the producers of long
first and chief reliance of the line must be upon  and way freight.
way business. For the sake of brevity, I will   We carry the produce of the way freight at a
not speak of passenger business. Way freight reasonable price-lower than by any other mode
must, except in exceptional cases like the Pana- of conveyance, taking into account the element
rma Railroad, be the chief dependence for freight of time, and lower, as is seen above, from the
revenue:; and, first, the tariff of charges must be fact that we carry the long freight, while we do
Such as to stimulate production in a healthy  not add to his competition in the market of the
manner, enabling it to enter into a fair com- world, because the long freight producer had
petition with the market of the world; else there another route of transit.




47
Neither have we carried his freight any cheap- local freight paid by the New York producer in
er than the rival route would have carried it. getting his freight to New York city.
Upon these principles, and for these reasons,   This should be borne in mind, whenever the
briefly stated, we have always made a difference  objection is raised against the present practice of
in favor of long freights, or freights for which  distributing rates upon freight, that the value of
other lines were competing.  We cannot run  the far off lands is enhanced to equal your own.
our road on ally other principles without practi- I need not say that if there is anything at all in
cally abandoning all hope of a fair return to our this objection, it should have prevented the
stockholders. If compelled to  charge equal building of the New York and Erie canal-that
rates per ton, per mile, on all freights of the the Mohawk farmer had a right to complain of
same class, our most remote way freight ship- the advantages given thereby to the farmer of
pers would have to pay a price absolutely pro- Genesee valley; nay, more-that the Hudson
hibitory, if those prices were made with refer- River farmer had a just cause of complaint,
ence to dividends in any degree.                against this State, for aiding the Mohawk tarmer.
Now what is true of our road, leading from    I am, dear sir, most respectfully,
the Mississippi to Chicago, is eminently true of                 Your obedient servant,
the New York roads.  The price at which they                             C. H. HAMMOND.
must take freight at Chicago for the sea-board, is
fixed by lines north and south of them  having  The Watertown and Rome Rail Road Company,
the capacity and  disposition  to carry these   in.answer to the application pending before
freights. The New York roads cannot therefore   the Select Committee of the Assembly for a
take these freights except they conform to the    P2o Recta Lzaw, respectfully submit the followprices fixed for them by these roads, and these   ing statement:
prices change from day to day.                    This Company is not advised of the particular
They do not increase the quantity carried to  features of the law asked of the Legislature and
the sea-board by a single barrel by reaching to  therefore is unable to anticipate how and to
Chicago for this freight; they do not thus injure  what extent any particular bill which may be
the citizens of New York by increasing the corn- framed, will affct its business and its interests,
petition in the market; they do not confer any  or those of the state and her citizens as confavor upon the western producer except to add  nected therewith. We can only speak of the
two other lines by which he can be served at the general proposition of a Pro Rnoa Law and of its
same price,                                    injustice and imlpolicy so far as applicable to our
Under the proposed pro rata bill, the New  road.
York lines cannot take a pound of this freight   The Watertown and Rome Rail Road is not a
from Chicago-neither will very much go by the rival of the canals of this state, but on the conNew kYork canals, as I believe.                trary is tributary to them. It may be alleged
The first, second and third classes will go that it attracts some freights that would otherround New York routes, and the fourth class wise enter the canals at Oswego. To a limited
will be divided.  The element of time will, extent this is true. But we affirm that, taking
through all the future, be a governing element in into consideration the feight which it brings to
transportation. This fact, to which dealers are  the  canal at Rome, wehich wonld otherwise go
accustoming themselves with great rapidity, and  down  the St. Lawrence River, or c(ver the Northwhich so greatly augments the value of a mode- er Rail Road to Boston or other places in New
rate capital, enabling property to be converted  England, or over the Canadian Grand Trunk
many times in a year, compels the New  York  Road to Montreal, or via Portland to an Atlantic
and other roads to keep their lines open for or foreign market, tile Watertown and Rome
freight at all seasons of the year.             Road is, in the aggregate, a feeder of the Erie
This greatly enhances the value of railway  Canal, and if the Committee would aid the catransportation in this latitude. It should be nal business and revenues, should be encourborne in mind that the frosts of winter, as they  aged, rather than embarrassed in its freighting
are more or less severe, add also more or less to  business, by legislation.
the cost of transporting freight. In the severe    During the season of caaal navigation, for
winters of 1855 and 1856, it is not pretended  1859, this company delivered to the canal at
that any road west of Lake Michigan, made any- Rome
thing in their freight departments.              Way freight,-... —---—. —------ 17,480 tons
In the more moderate winters that have suc-   Through  eight, —------------------- 23,462 do.
ceeded, less difficulty  and  expense  has been  met  Total................................. —--------------------  40,942  do.
from this cause. But as a rule it may be said  asper statement annexed.
that the difference of expense, in the transporta-    On all of which the state collected canal tolls
tion of freight by rail in summer and winter, in from Rome to the place of destination, which
the latitude of central Illinois, is from 20 to 30 was for nearly all of it, tide water.
per cent. In New York the more severe winters    Of the 23,462 tons of through freight, conwould undoubtedly justify a large estimate.     siderably over one-half was lumber, from points
The New York roads would be justified there- in Canada, below Kiigston, and which world
fore in raising their winter tariff to meet this have gone to Montreal had it not come over our
increased cost. It should be borne in mind, road. A large portion of the residue of the
also, that the New York lines and their connec- through [freight, consisted of Canadian freights
tions do not reach the home of the producer, which, except for our road, would have sought
and bring his products from that home to mar- transportation over the Grand Trunk or down the
ket, at the reduced or way freight rates. They  St. Lawrence.
reach only the centres of trade, to which the    The Watertown and Rome Road extends from
freight has first paid a local tariff, off-setting the the Erie Canal at Rome, to Cape Vincent —op



48
posite Kingston-on the St. Lawrence River. 1 this State. We, therefore, respectfully protest
Instead of diverting freights from the canal, its against such a law.    ADDISON DAY,
natural effect is to bring Canadian freights in                    Superintendent of YWatertown
the vi(cinlity of Kingston, or which are brought   Dated January 27, 1860.      B Romne R. R.
to that point by the Grand Trunk Rail Road, to Statement slhowig the number of tons of freight dethe Erie Canal and through it to our great com-   liered to the Erie Canal by the Watertown and
mercial city, instead of their going to a market   Rome Railroad, for the year ending Dccember
beyond the state and over other thoroughfares.   31st, 1859.
The Watertown and Rome Rail Road cannot                    THROUGH.      WAY.
reduce its wav freight tariff. It cannot afford April,........   623 tons.  1,906 tons.
to do so without rendering its stock wholly un- May.-.......1,558          3,001
June,...... —---—. 2,664   2,342"
remunerative to its owners. This road, by econo- July, ------—..... 3.790  1,641 
my in its management has maintained its pe- August,........... 2,832'    1,686"
cuniary credit and afforded small dividends to September,........ 2,813  "    2,243 
its stockholders. Its main reliance isway busi- October,........ 3,742 "   2,710'
November, -------- 5,422  "    1,951 "
ness, which it cannot afford to reduce the prices                -                   TOTAL.
and consequertly the profits on, by adopting                   23,462     17,480   40,942 tons.
any pro rata tariff adapted to securing through
business.                                                 Testimony Resumed.
By a pro rata tariff, founded on its present   GEORGe POWERS, Superintendent of the Hudrates for way business, its through freights would son and Boston Railroad, was the next witness.
be almost entirely cut off at once. Nor would He testified as follows, Mr. Thompson conductthe canal be the gainer.  These fieights would ing the examination:
go to the Grand Trunk railroad, or to the St.   Q. State your occupation and residence?
Lawrence river.  They have only been secured    A. My residence is at Hudson, and I have
to our road by low rates of freight, and we had charge of the Hudson and Boston Railroad.
to carry them at these rates, or not at all. If   Q. How long have you been connected with
we were able to make a very small profit in the that road?
operation, and at the same time give this busi-   A. Eight years, not all the time under that
ness to our own Erie canal. and our own markets, title. It was formerly called the Hudson and
we supposed ourselves not unpatriotic citizens, Berkshire Railroad.
or deserving to be arrested in our course by    Q. It has been purchased by the Boston line
hostile legislation. It only requires an exami- since?
nation of the subject, to satisfy the.committee   A. Yes, sir.
that the effect of a pro rata law upon our roali   Q. What was your occupation prior to that t
would be to divert business from the canals.   A. I was in the forwarding business on the
We should be unable under such a law to con- iver?
tinue to deliver to the canal, at Rome, our past   Q. State what is the invariable habit of foramount of tonnage.                             warders in the Hudson river, on reference to inIt may be said, that the discrimination on our creasing the compensation for way freight over
road in favor of through freights, has beenl a through freight?
matter of necessity. As to these, it was a choice   A. It has been as now, that the charge on way
between something, or nothing.  We have got business is fully up to the through rates, to all
what we could, and as we have only diverted points.
freights from our Canadian neighbors, and to-   Q. To all points between where?
wards our own canals, surely, our State has no   A. Between Albany and New York.
reason to complain.                              Q. Have you been practically acquainted with
But in point of fact, the discrimination in price locomotives and the cost of running them?
in favor of through freights, is not unjust on any   A. I have, sir.
basis, especially on our road, looking at its pe-   Q. Will you state what it costs per mile, on
culiar circumstances.  Our through freights are your road, to run your locomotives?
carried in full laden cars, and in the most eco-   A. Nineteen cents per mile it cost last year.
nomical form. But the way freights on our road    Q. Was that reckoning one way or both ways?
are collected from  numerous small stations,   A. All ways, the entire running of the year?
which seldom  supply a car load at one time.   Q. What are your grades?
From no way station on the road, except Water-   A. We start with a very heavy grade-probatown, do we, except in some instances, get a car bly the heaviest grade operated by a locomotive
load of freight at one time. We have to pick anywhere; at least anywhere within my know.
up simall quantities of freight as a train passes ledge.
over the road.  Thus we are are compelled to   Q. What would be the effect of a rigid tariffdraw  trains of empty or partly laden cars of the same amount per ton per mile for all distanway fieight, at equal or greater expense than ces-the same to remain for a month?
our through trains of full laden cars; the latter   A. It would have a very serious effect:
frequently at lower rates, paying more than the    Q. State what it would be?
former at higher rates. As a matter of equity,   A. We would have to lose on our way freight
therefore, and on the basis of actual expense, to enable us to hold the through freight.
we do not deem a somewhat higher tariff for   Q. Which part of your business is carried at
way freights, unjust or unfair.               the greatest cost, the through or way business 
With these suggestions to the committee, we   A. The way business.
submnit that a Pro Rata Freight Bill, would be   Q. Have you any competing routes? if so,
unjust towards the Watertown and Rome rail- what are they?
road, and at the same time would not benefit the   A.. In connection with the Western Railroad
*canal revenues, or any class of the citizens of  we have several competing routes.




49
Q. Name them?                               A. We allowed six dollars per ton, thirty cents
A. The Hartford and New Haven, the Provi- per hundred, which wasavery liberal allowance.
dence and Worcester, the Canal road, the Troy    Q. At these relative prices, the cost of fuel
and Boston, the Housatonic and the Harlem.    was as twelve to nineteen cents per mile?
Q. And the Hudson river?                    A. Yes, sir. There was a time last summer,
A. Not so much.                            when the coal would not have probably cost so
Q. Do you know a road in Massachusetts built much by a half dollar a ton.
on the side of a canal-the canal being discon-   Mr. COBB.-Your road starts from Hudson;
tinued?                                     what does it connect with to Boston?
A. Yes, sir; that is what we call the Canal   A. The western road at Chatham Four Corners.
road.                                          Q. What does your through traffic consist of?
Q Are they both in use?                     A. We have grain, and flour, and meal, proA. No, sir.                                duced and milled in the county; considerable
Q. The canal given up and the railroad sub- of that. We have, also, a very heavy coal trade
stituted?                                   on our road.
A. Yes, sir.                                 Q. Any iron ore?
Q. It passes through Westfield?             A. We have a good deal of iron ore mined at
A. Yes, sir.                               Berkshire.
Q. Do you know its length?                   Mr. HOVEY.-You stated that there was a
A. I do not.                               road called the Canal road, built on the line of a
Q. Whatt was the freights from Albany to Hud- canal which has been discontinued. What was
son, as compared with those from Albany to New  the length of that canal?
York, when you were engaged in the carrying    A. I cannot tell. It was a canal extending
trade?                                       from  New Haven up to the neighborhood of
A. I have been connected with a concern  Wetfield river. I think that was the terminus.
which has been carrying from  Albany to Cats-   Q. What was its capacity?
kill for about 15 years, and am still connected    A. It has not been in operation since I became
with it. The rates have been invariably twelve acquainted with it.
and a half cents, from Albany to Catskill, for a   Q. What means and sources had it for getting
barrel of flour, or to any point between.    business?
Q. What is it from Albany to New York?       A. The same sources that would apply to the
A. I have known it to be as low as five or six  railroad.
cents per barrel.                              Q. If there is any significance to the introQ. Is it ordinarily beyond a shilling?    duction of this subject, it is intended to convey
A. No, sitl.                               the idea that canals cannot live by the side of
Q. And not as much as you charge for way  railroads. Did it run from Northampton to New
freights                                     He
A. Yes, sir.
A. Not generally. We could not afford to    Q. And had seventy miles of that country to
carry it in the quantities we carry as low, if we drain?
had larger quantities. We carry smaller lots in    A. Yes, sir.
steamboats which make all the landings, and    Q It was in operation until the Hartford and
cannot carry so economically as they do where New Haven railroad was built?
there are several thousand barrels on a barge.  A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you carry milk?                       Q. It had ro capacity of getting other than
A. No, sir.                                local business?
Q. Don't you bring milk from the eastward to    A  Yes sir.
the Hudson river.,
Q  WlA. No,  stateir.  any othercircumstancesin AZARIAH BOODIE, President of the Toledo and
Q. Will you state any other circumstances in  Wabash Valley Railroad, was next examined as
connection with your road?
a witness, by Mr. Thompson. He testified as
A. I was present this morning when some  follows:
questions were asked in reference to the cost   Q. Where do you reside 1
of operating railroads by coal as a fuel. My    A. In New York.
experience has shown that the cost of coal, as   Q. What is your occupation?
compared to the cost of wood, is as 12 cents to    A. I am in the railroad business.
19 cents per mile.                             Q. In what part of the country does your field
Mr. ALVORD.-On the same road.           of operations lie?
A. Onl the same road.                        A. In the awest.
Q. What coal do you use 1                    Q. Between what points?
A. Bituminous.                               A. The road I represent at present, runs from
Mr. SMITH.-I do not understand your state- Toledo to the Illinois line, following the Wabash
ment, perfectly.                             valley.
A. The cost of fuel using wood for a whole   Q. You are President of the road?
year, was nineteen cents per mile. About the   A. Yes, sir.
first of January, I think it was, we commenced    Q. How long have you been engaged in the
running a coal engine over the same road. The railroad business?
cost of coal per mile was twelve cents.        A. Twenty-four years.
Mr. CONKLING.-How much did you pay for   Q. During that time have you paid particular
the wood?                                   attention to the transit of freight and passengers 1
A. Our wood varied from three to five dollars   A. I have for the last six years given more
per cord.                                    attention to the transit of passengers than beQ. How much for coal?                      fore. I was a builder of railroads until within




50
five or six years, since when I have been ope-   A. There is a different state of things.  It is
rating                                          now utterly impossible for one to have the carQ. Will you give us your judgment as to the  rying trade of the west as a monopoly, owing to
difference in the cost of transportation on rail- the opening of other roads.
roads between through and way freights?          Q. Does the rivalry and competition between
A. It depends upon localities to a very great the northern and southern roads affect the comextent; but my opinion is, that there is a great- merce of the canals as well as the railroads?
er difference than has been mentioned here.   A. Precisely the same, so far as my observaThrough freight is carried on our road exceed- tion gces. I cannot state exactly the proporingly cheap, compared with local; for the simple tions.  We classify freight into first, second,
reason that it is brought to the road in bulk. It third and fourth classes. The first, second and
may be compared to a wholesale business, while third will stick to the railroads; at any rate, that
to local is a retail business.  It costs the roads has been our experience.  The fourth, and pernothing to gather the business. You hitch to  haps some portion of the third, will go to the
the train, and take it through. It costs nothing  canals. I am speaking now of through freights,
to the aaencies on the line during its transporta- not of local.  If there is an arbitrary rate in
tion. There is none of the difficulties attending  New York on the railroads, it will not affect the
at the depots, &c., that you have with local first, second and third classes of freights, befreight. You receive a car full, and it goes di- cause they can get to the seaboard as cheaply by
rectly through and you receive full pay from  other roads as by those of New York. I had
the car; while in the other case perhaps you  offers last season, repeatedly, while west, to
cannot have more than five tons in a car. Tak- take freights from our country, seeking the seaing all these things into consideration, I should  board, to Portland, and even to Boston, by the
think there was from fifty to sixty per cent. Grand Trunk railway, and from the Pennsylvadifference.                                     nia Central, to take them  over the Pittsburgh,
Q. Will you now state what in your judgment Chicago and Fort Wayne. We might have done
is the difference between the cost of winter and  our business by them just as cheaply as by the
summer transportations in the north, where the New York roads.
roads are affected by snow and frost?            Q. Is it, in your judgment, practicable to opA. If we in the winter season should have the erate a road at the same tariff for through and
same account of business to do as in the sum- way freights? Can it be done profitably?
mer, the difference would not be so great. But   A  I answer your first question, yes.  But
there is every difficulty in operating in winter. profitably, impossible, because way freights cost
We not only have frost and snow, but we do not largely more than through.
as much business. We run the same trains, but   Q. In your judgment, what would be the condo not have half of the amount in the trains.   sequence, on the New York roads, by the abanQ. Which roads are those of which you speak? doning of the through freights, on the way
A. I mean the northern roads, at the south  freights?
there is no frost; they can operate quite as   A. I can only answer by stating how I should
cheap as in the summer.                        manage the New York roads if I owned them.
Q. What in your judgment would be the effect If I were obliged to abandon the through freight,
of a stated tariff, unalterable for thirty days on I should get the largest price I could for the lothe road which establishes it, as regards its abil- cal. If both through and local tariffs at present
ity to get through freight?                   barely pay, it is very evident, if the through
A. I can speak only for the roads I represent, freight was abandoned, you would have to put
which cover three states, from Toledo to Bur- the whole expense on the local tariff, and which,
lington on the Mississippi river, and Quincy on of course, would be increased in this degree.
the Mississippi, a hundred miles below Bur-   Q. Do you know whether a competing route
lington; a fixed tariff for three days would di- could have an influence in fixing your tariff,
vert that business from the State of New York. though not able to carry as cheaply as you?
At the end of our lines there are four or five   A. I know they do.
different routes that will take our freights as   Q. What is the cause of it?
cheap as the New York lines. If you fix an ar-   A. A competing route to the same point may
bitrary or unalterable rate on the roads of New  be 500 miles longer, and if they offer to take
York, as soon as it becomes known that that fixed the goods a fraction under us to that point, we
rate is made, that moment the rival routes, are obliged to come down to their price to be
those outside of New York, would drop their able to carry the goods. They may be losing
rates, just enough to take the business, and they  money, and the only effect upon us would be
would continue to do so as long as the business that it would lessen our profits.
would pay.                                        Q. Do you know what the tariffs for local
Q. Ihas that already been the effect of a fixed freights on western roads are, in comparison
tariff by the New York roads, prior to 1858?    with New York roads-say the Central?
A. Prior to 1858, they did not have the rival   A. I can tell you the tariff of the road I replines that they have at the present day. The resent.
Baltimore and Ohio has been finished since    Q. How do they compare with the Central?
1858; the Pennsylvania Central has been in op-   A. They are higher, both for passengers and
eration about two and a-half years, and the freight.
Grand Trunk has just been put into operation.   Q. How does through freight affect the pasThe consequence is, that, prior to 1858, the New  senger carriage? what connection, if any, is
York roads had almost a monopoly of the west- there between them?
ern carrying trade.                               A. Passengers are very apt to follow freight.
Q. The advantage of a monopoly is now al- Tt would not be an immediate effect. Freights
most entirely cut off I                         would be diverted from New York and go to




51
other roads. As there would be new avenues of   A. Some twenty-five years, or twenty years,
trade open, new relations would spring up with parts of it.
other cities, and eventually the passenger traffic   Q. Do you not know that the Farmington cawould be to a great extent diverted.          nal has also been used to construct a railroad on
Q. Do you know whether there are rival cornm- its banks?
peting routes from the centers of trade at the   A. The canal from Providence to Worcester?
west?                                          Q. Yes, sir.
A. I know there are.                          A. Certainly. The railroad I represent, has a
Q. What are those rival lines?             canal running along by it for two hundred miles.
A. The principal and most powerful is the   Q. What is that?
Pennsylvania Central; the next, perhaps, is th    A. The Wabash Valley canal.
Baltimore and Ohio; but the most formidable a    Mr. COBB - You built the Rochester and
present is the Grand Trunk-a new line whic   Lockport railroad?
they do not expect to bring in revenue, but i    A. Yes, sir.
rather a national or political affair-andit is no  Mr. COBB-Did you also build the Toledo and
striving to get the trade of the west.        Wabash road 2
Q. What advantages, within your knowledge,   A. Yes, sir.
has the Grand Trunk over other roads?          Mr. COBB-What do you call the terminus
A. I cannot say that it has any advantages of your road?
over other roads, for they are all equally a    A. It commences at Toledo, in the northern
to do the business, except thus: that the Grand) part of Ohio. It strikes Indiana seventy-three
Trunk is one of the best constructed and best miles from Toledo, and reaches Fort Wayne;
equipped roads in this country.               thence it runs to Lafayette, and eighteen miles
Q. Does it pay any taxation?               beyond the Wabash it connects with the Great
A. I think it does not.                     Western railroad, which leads across the state
Q. Is it fostered by the government?       of Illinois to Quincy.
A. Yes, sir.                                  Mr. COBB-What do you call its western terQ. To what extent?                          minus?
A. There was from 13 to 14 millions of dollars   A. The state line.
of government assistance to begin; whether it   Mr. COBB-And it runs then in connection
has been fostered by the Home Government I do with the Great Western!
not know, but it bas been helped by individuals   A. Yes, sir.
on the other side.                              Mr. COBB-And the whole runs from Toledo
Q. Is it not a road constructed differently from  to the Mississippi?
other northern roads?                          A. Yes, sir.
A. Yes, sir.                                  Mr. COBB-What route in this state do you
Q. How?                                    consider your ally?
A. The bridging of the road is very superior-   A. I do not consider that either of the routes
a great many of them being of iron. The road in this state are our allies, one more than anbed is probably the best on the continent. It is other. We, as western railroad men, who repreall raised some three or four feet above the sent western interests, have all the facilities outnatural soil, is thoroughly drained, and is a side of New York to get our freight east, that
finished road; and probably the wear and tear we could ask for.
on the road for the next ten years will be less   Mr. COBB-Does the New York Central pro
than. on any road in this country.            rate with you in the contracts which you make
Q. Has this road agencies in the western coun- for freight?
try    s                                         A. They do, to a very great extent. We have
A. Yes, sira everywhere.                    A discretionary powkr to a certain extent.
Q. What is your judgment as to whether all                       
c tin  from  a common center can   Mr. COBB-You consider yourself fully entiroads competing from  a common center, can tied to make any rate you please?
have the same rate per mile for carrying freight  A  No, sir
A. If they get the same rate per mile for doingreat Western also pro
the freighting, the shortest road will do the
cr                                    rate to the Mississippi?
business.
Q. Is it practicable in your judgment?       A. It pro rates with us except with respect to
A. No, sir, simply because the long routes local business. There is a very large proportion
will not agree to it.                         of the Great Western's freight gathered up at
Q. Do you know the practice on all rivers, Decatur, and we pay the Great Western an extra
lakes, canals and roads, of charging more per rate as a local rate, making a discrimination in
ton per mile for local freight than for through their favor;
freight, and if so, in what did the practice ori-   Mr. COBB-Over that section of the road?
ginate, and what justifies it?.            A. Yes, sir; business comes over the Great
A. As far as my observation goes, it is inva- Western road, we pro rate there.
riable the case. Local prices have always been   Mr. COBB-At what rates have you been takhigher. I suppose the reason is that it costs ing freight from your western terminus?
more to do it, that is the origin of it.        A. I do not recollect.
Q. Did you ever know the canal from New    Mr. COBB-Have you not received freight
Haven, where a railroad is now located?       at your western terminus as low as 20 cents a
A. The canal run from New Haven to North- hundred?
ampton. I think it was about seventy miles   A. I do not recollect.
long, it may have been seventy-two or seventy-   Mr. COBB-During the summer season did
three. It was abandoned twelve years ago.     you ship from Toledo by the lake or by rail?
Q. How long was it in operation 1             A. A very great item in the west is the trans



52
portation of cattle. Last year it was about equally count, and it was neither fenced, equipped, nor
divided between the rail and lake.          gravelled. Of course we were very poor. We
Mr. COBB-To whom  did you deliver them  took the question of our difficulties into considerwhen you shipped by the lake?              ation, and we thought the better way to get out
A. To the propellers of the New York Central of our difficulties, was to make an amicable arand the New York and Erie.                  rangement and sell the road under a foreclosure,
Mr. COBB-At what rates have cattle been protecting every person's interest to the best of
taken through by your road from its western our ability. We did not get into debt nor any
terminus?                                  difficulty, by any operation of the road; but inA. That I cannot tell, for the reason that we stead of that, we have from the operation of the
delivered the cattle at the lake at our price,  road paid the interest on the first mortgage
Mr. COBB-What was this price?            bonds, and on the second mortgage bonds, and
A. Forty dollars a car load on our road.  have within six months, We  fenced in, over
Mr. COBB-What is its total length?       two hundred and forty-three miles of the road,
A. Two hundred and forty-three miles.     built nineteen houses, and done a great deal of
Mr. COBB —Was that the way you carried all gravelling; all that has been done from the inyour cattle during the past summer?        come from the operation of the road. I hardly
A. I think there may have been an occasional think you can infer that the road has broken
exception.                                  down from a want of success in its operations.
Mr. COBB-Are any cattle sent over the Great   Mr. COBB-Has your present, or had your
V, estern?                                 former organization any member in its Board of
A. A great many.                          Directors, who is a member of the New York
Mr. COBB-What rates do you get when they Central, or New York and Erie's Board?
are sent over both roads?                    A. There has never to my knowledge been a
A. When we did get a through rate, it gave us Director of the New York Central, or New York
about $33 a car load; I do not pretend to be ex- and Erie, who had anything to do with our road
act; I think that was it.                   as a Director,
Mr. COBB-At what rate per ton per mile was  Mr. HOVEY-The inference drawn from the
your business during the summer season per- statement you gave, is that the canal had been
formed?                                    superseded by the operation of your road. What
A. I can tell pretty near, but I cannot give was the condition of the canal at the time your
the figures exactly.  It was probably in the road was completed i What was its capacity,
neighborhood-a fraction less than 2 cents per its length and its means of getting business 2
ton per mile.                                 A. I have not the statistics to give a definite
Mr. COBB-At what rate was the way business as    to that question.  I can say, generally,
done?                                      that the Wabash Valley canal was considered a
A. About three cents.                     failure prior to the finishing of our road.
Mr. COBB-Which do you esteem gives the   Mr. HOVEY-That is all I wish to know.
most profit?                                 WITNESS-I wish to give you a reason.
A. The through business, I think.           Mr. HOVEY-I am satisfied.
Mr. COBB-What is the proportion of your   Q. You say you run parallel with the canal
way business to your through 2              for what distance.
A. I cannot tell; I have not the figures here.   A. We run substantially parallel to the canal
Mr. COBB-Is your road at present in first for two hundred and twenty-nine miles.
hands or second hands?                       Q. Has your railroad been pro rated by the
A. My hands were the first, and it is still state for the purpose of protecting the canal?
there.                                        A. No sir.
Mr. COBB-Has it not been latterly sold?    Q. What would be the effect on your road, as
A. Yes, sir; I was the purchaser.         regards through freight, if the pro rata measure
Mr. COBB-Then it has changed hands?      were to be passed on the New York roads?
A. It has gone into a new organization.     A. I do not think it would be near so injuriMr. COBB-What was its original stock?  ous to us as to the New York roads.
A. I think about three millions.            Q. Would it be injurious or otherwise?
Mr. COBB-Had it any bonds?                 A. It would be injurious, because you would
A. Yes, sil.                              have to throw off either one class of freight or
Mr. COBB-How much in bonds?              the other. You put such a restriction on your
A. I could get you all of these details, but I roads and you throw the through business out
do not see that it has anything-to do with the of the state.
question here. Still I have no earthly objection   Mr HOVEY-Are you not aware that the New
to give it.                                 Haven and Northampton Canal had only from 2J
Mr. COBB-What amount of stock and bonds to 3 feet of water in it before the completion of
were wiped out of existence at the sale?  the railroad? 
A. If the committee wish an answer, I will   A. The canal was made originally the ordinary
endeavor to make myself understood. The sale depth.
of the road was not owing to the operation of   Mr. HOVEY-What do you mean by the ordiany way or local tariffs.                   nary depth?
Mr. FLAGLER-It is supposed Mr. Cobb may   A. I suppose from three and a half feet to four
trace the relation between the cause and the feet four or five; I do not know; I never gave a
effect.                                     great deal of attention.
WITNESS.-Three years ago last Defe er,   Mr. HOVEY-It was never more than three
we got the road                   s    ie. and a half feet.
Ttmre-rtmattie  wasO $900,000 in debt on   A. The Erie canal, if it did not take means to
its construction account, not on its operation ac- be cleared out and repaired, would nothave more




53
than three and a half or four feet of water in   A. I say to a very great extent we brought
time.                                       only to Toledo.
Mr. HOVEY-Has the Grand Trunk road any   Mr. COBB-Why could not other roads do as
advantage in grade, build or distance, or any- you  have done, and  succeed as well by
thing else that would enable it to carry freight limiting their operation to their own termini?
from Toledo to Portland, 853 miles, cheaper than Do you know of any impediment in their way?
it could be carried by the New York road, or all   A. If there were but one line of railroad
the way by rail from Detroit to New York, 845 there would be no impediment. We have done
miles?                                     that way to as great an extent as we could.
A. If the Grand Trunk road had no other ob-   Mr. CONKLING-Is there any road in the
ject in view than revenue, and to get the most west except the Cleveland, Painsville and Ashmoney out of the road practicable, I think they tabula, which can properly be said to be dewould not be able to compete successfully, either pendent on the roads of this state?
with the New York roads or the Pennsylvania   A. No, sir. The Toledo and Cleveland freight
Central, or Baltimore and Ohio.             can be diverted at Cleveland to the PennsylMr. HOVEY-That is to Portland?            vania Central; all the other routes southwest,
A. Yes, sir.                              west and northwest can reach the southern
Mr. HOVEY-Now, as regards Boston-the roads.
distance by the Grand Trunk, from Toledo to   Mr. CONKLING-With reference to the WaBoston is 964 miles; by the routes this way it is bash Valley canal, connecting Toledo with
734 miles, a distance of 224 miles in favor of Evansville on the Ohio river, it is 456 miles in
this route. Can the Grand Trunk compete with length?
this route under these circumstances 2        A. Yes, sir.
A. I don't think they could for a series of   Mr. CONKLING-Did I understand you to
years. I think that for the next two years their say that the traffic on the northern part of that
road can be kept in repair and operated cheaper canal had been abandoned?
than any road in this country.                A. No, sir.
Mr. HOVEY-You  stated that the Grand   Mr. CONKLING-How is it between Toledo
Trunk road had received from 13 to 14 millions and Defiance?
from the Provincial government of Canada.     A. It is not abandoned..A. Yes, sir.                               Mr. CONKLING-What is the size Fof the
Mr. HOVEY-None from the home govern- channel?
ment 2                                        A. It is about the size of the old Erie canal.
A. Yes, sir.                                Mr. CONKLING-About 45 feet wide and 4j
Mr. HOVEY-Is 14 millions of capital aid on deep?
a capital of 50 millions, which is that of the   A. It is not to exceed 45 feet I should think.
Grand Trunk, as much as three millions would   Mr. CONKLING-At Defiance what are the
be to the Erie?                            connections of the canal?
A. That is a matter of figures which I am not   A. It has a connection with a Cincinnati
eable of answering to.                      canal, at what is called the junction.
Ilr. HOVEY-How low do you contract flour   Mr. CONKLING-They used to join at Dels
from Lafayette, Indiana, to New York 2      ance and used the channel in conjunction for a
A. I do not recollect the lowest figure. The distance. Do you recollect when there was an
way we did our business last summer, on our extensive passenger business done on it?
line, was, to contract to Toledo. The competi-   A. Yes, sir.
tion was so destructive to all interests that we   Mr. CONKLING-Is there any done now?
chose to contract only to the end of our own   A. No. sir.
_nute and then let it take its own course.    Mr. CONKLING —I refer to the business on
t.  What is the length of the water communi- that portion of the canal; is there any done
cation on that line-on the Grand Trunk?    now?
A. It is rail to Portland and water to New    A. Very little is done now there, except the
Y ork.                                      carrying of grain; there is scarcely any merWhat would be the effect of this pro rata chandise. There is some salt, some lumber,
upon roads west that have been built to run in and some grain.
connection, in reference to bringing business to   Mr. CONKLING-Prior to the construction of
thenim                                      the railroad, the entire business of the region
A. The effect of a pro rata on the New York was done on that canal?
roads, on our roads would be for us to give up   A. No, sir. Prior to the construction of the
the business, so far as the New York roads are railroads of Indiana, pretty much all the busiconcerned, entirely, and take it to the other ness done on the canal was diverted from it to
roads.                                      a very great extent by cross roads at the princiMr. COBB-Would not that depend upon pal business points, such as Lafayette, Fort
whether the roads would be willing to do it for Wayne, the business within thirty or forty miles
nothing?                                   from the canal.
A. We know they have been ready at all   Mr. HOVEY-Do you not know that sixty ton
times to take it, and continue to o so, so long as boats were the largest that ever run on that
they can make a profit, however small; of canal 
course you could get it down to a figure where   A. I think that was the size.
nothing could be made and then they would   Mr. CONKLING-That would be about the
stop.                                       size of one of the original Erie canal boatsMr. COBB-You said you did a very good rather laraer?
business on your road without making any con-   Mr. HOVEY-Not quite equal to it.
tracts beyond Toledo?                        Mr. CONKLING-I make these i:quiries be



54
cause my personal knowledge extends back to thing more for carrying a commodity than is
1844, when I passed over the canal from Toledo necessary to be spent upon it. I say it is as into Dayton.                                   evitable as the conclusions of logic, and as fixed
Mr. HOVEY-I suppose it was abandoned by as the laws of gravitation, that low rates of transthe English bond-holders a year ago?        portation are the healthy doctrine for commerceA. No, sir.  The English bond-holders, or the lower the better. I challenge criticism upon
trustees of the bond-holders, kept it in repair that position. That I state as a general prountil last winter.                           position covering the whole kingdom of traffic.
Mr. HOVEY-They  did not maintain its No man candeny it. He is an unwisestatesman
depth?                                      and a simple merchant who trades on any other
A. They kept it in repair, but it pined and basis. The State of New York was penetrated
has been dying gradually for years.          with that great doctrine when it bent its energies
Mr. CONKLING-During how long a portion and achieved the greatest undertaking of the
of the year is it available for navigation?  age by connecting the waters of our great lakes,
A. It is generally open before the Erie canal, presenting two thousand miles of inland navigaand closes about the first of December. They tion, surrounded by four thousand miles of lake
generally get it open in March-from the middle coast, dotted with growing towns and cities with
to the last part.                            the Atlantic Ocean. Then it was understood to
Mr. CONKLING-Has it an ample supply of be a part of the system to so direct the energies
water at all times?                         of this state and its canal to enable the people to
A. There has not been any want of water gather the commodities from the rich gardens of
since I had any acquaintance wivh it, but once, the west, to be distributed among the Atlantic
and that was onlv between Attica and Lafayette. cities and in Europe, at the lowest possible rate.
Mr. CONKLING-Then the canal is available It was never discovered that that was an error
for eight months in the year for navigation i    until my intelligent friends opposite found out
A. Fully eight months.                     that the interest of the people, and parties, and
institutions were being ruined by too low rates
Mr. HAWLEY, said:                          of transportation!
Mr. Chairman, Gentlemen of the Committee:   Now, I admit, that under particular circumI feel impressed that you must be weary of the stances, a party may be ruined by too low rates;
subject, and of the parties, and that will impel and that leads me to warn you, gentlemen, that
me to hasten a conclusion, and to pass by every- no legislature can soundly legislate, and no man
thing which I deem to be not worthy of con- can soundly judge by an examination of insideration, and a great many thimgs that shall stances. You must legislate upon aggregatesbe worthy of consideration. The testimony ad- upon the whole. You must make your meaduced befo e you has been of that clear charac- sures of traffic with reference to aggregates-to
ter, and given under such circumstances as will the whole, or you will fail. The course of proof
save to the counsel who have the duty of sum- on the other side, and in behalf of these petiming up a very considerable labor. A general tions, has been proofs of instances, calculated
view of the subject. it seems to me, is the only to mislead those who hear and consider them.
one not pretty much exhausted. Nevertheless I ask if this be not true?  Does it prove that a
the subject is one that has more aspects, more railroad has lost money because a single consigndetails, more points, more facts, more interests ment has been carried below cost? Does it
and more serious consequences connected with prove that a traffic is ruinous because one of its
it than any that has been debated in these halls, attempts has been a failure?- Is that enterprise
in a great many years; and I doubt whether badly managed which loses money once? Just
there has been before the people of this state a look at the invoice of traffic that fills twenty or
subject of such momentous consequences, which thirty cars, of ten tons each, at a remunerative
reach so far, and cut so deep, since the day of rate, it is passing on a route; it meets with a
the debate in this House w!:ich determined that snow  storm.  This involves the necessity of
the Erie canal should be built.              clearing the road; it pressing into service a hunTrade marks the era of these years. This is dred Greeks and numerous auxiliary engines,
the commercial century, and an improvement and an expenditure of means equal to three or
upon all the ages that have passed. What is four times the value of the freight to clear away
commerce?  What is the carrying trade in its the snow and to get the train through. That
relations to commerce? It is a very small part trip proves a fearful loss. Yet is that business
of it, but it is a link in the trade chain of the badly managed because it has lost money in an
whole. On the soundness of your policy in instance, by circumstances existing in a particureference to the carrying trade depends the lar case?  This fault and this fallacy underlies
soundness of the whole. The carrying of a the whole of the proof in behalf of these peticommodity is labor and cost bestowed upon it. tioners. Our proof goes by aggregates and geneBut that labor and that cost adds nothing to its ral principles, and on them all sound conimerintrinsic value. A barrel of flour, after having cial men must stand and to them all sound legisbeen carried across the ocean, will feed no more lators must look.
people. A piece of cloth, when carried a thou-   Look at the evidence adduced on behalf of the
sand miles, will cover no more nakedness. So New York and Erie Railroad, with its statement
it is-carrying adds nothing to the intrinsic of through traffic for four years, including the
value of the thing carried; therefore it is labor last, and with fierce competition and low prices
lost, so far as it is more expensive than is neces- prevailing during that time. We gave you the
sary. It is a waste of ingenuity, a waste of time, I number of tons and the number of dollars, eight
of human industry and capital, to spend any- I millions and over, received for that transporta



55
tion, and by arithmetical calculation it shows times,    wing out of the situation of their
that they received one and three quarters of a owner.,f the owner of beef. pork or flour cancent per ton per mile on the whole I Is not that not afford to wait for returns the time that would 
a remunerative rate? There were plenty of in- be required to have them  transported by canal,
stances during that time, where the road lost he sends them by railroad; but if he can afford
money on particular operations.  If they were  to wait,l e sends by canal, and gets lower rates
prevented from  doing this because they lost of freightl There is no line that can be drawn
money in those instances, they could not have  that is sure and certain to discriminate in every
recorded the many instances where they made  case. Each man's judgment is his guide in the
money. I take that as an instance to show that particular case, and he will send his goods by
evidence based upon particular cases is a falacy  that means which will best subserve his interest.
that will mislead every man, and put him on his  That is the explanation on that point.
way towards ruin who thus does his business,   We go a little further, and let us see what is
and every legislator at fault who is guided by it. really the question-the difficulty complained of
I will quote one more particular instance, to  here. It is that the roads charge a different rate
show the fallacy of depending upon proof of per mile per ton for different distances. They
particular instances, and that is the argument of call it a discrimination against the people of this
Mr. Cobb, in his last speech, based upon the  state. I will not criticise any further than tosay
transportation of the sugar from  New York to  that they give it a wrong name. It is not disNew Orleans, at an exceedingly low rate.       criminating against the people of this state at the
Mr. COBB-From New York to St. Louis.         cost of our citizens. They will allow thle citiMr. HAWLEY-I am obliged to you for the  zens of this state to carry at the same rate they
correction. There were 600 hogsheads of sugar will allow the citizens of other states to carry,
carried at a rate which seemed to be very low, from between all points on their road and over
and the illustration was given to prove that the  all their western connections. When they show
railroad had taken a traffic that belonged to the  these low freights from  Chicago east are they
canal, by the unusually low rate.  Let us see not for the benefit of the New York citizen?
how it was. Belcher & Co., of St. Louis, have  Is not the citizen of New York interested as p:ara great sugar refinery-an immense establish- chaser and consumer?  Is it not for his benefit
ment-the running of which requires a vast in three cases out of four? It is often his proconsumption of crude sugar daily, and the  perty as soon as it is consigned and started from
stopping of which would cost him  $500 each  Chicago? Isit not the New York citizen who owns
day it remained still. They were running low  and controlsthe p)roperty from the point of comin material, and could not get a supply by river petition in the extreme west to the State of New
from  New  Orleans, by reason of low  water. York? But there is no discrimination against the
They telegraphed to New York to purchase so  citizen of this state because he happens to live in
many hogsheads of sugar, and to send it by rail, this'state. He hasthesame advantagein these long
as they must have it in a certain specified time. freights as any body else; and the people of the
That order came to New York, and came to the  State of New York have more interest than all the
knowledge of the transportation lines. They  rest, because they are interested in the largest
began competing for it. The competition was proportion of freight when it starts, and all of it
between the New York and Erie and Baltimore  when it arrives.
and Ohio roads. The rates ran down to that   Then they say further, that it operates injurilow figure complained of by the gentleman. ously upon particular localities of the St to of
The New York and Erie took the sugar and car- New York. At Buffalo, for instance, they comried it forward to St. Louis. Perhaps they lost plain that this has been the cause ofi.ig
money upon it, perhaps not-they thought not. Buffalo out of the wholesale tra     I beg to say
If it had not been carried by them, it would  t'ifat {in'      o          a' mistake, as well as
have been carried by the Pennsylvania Central a mistake in theory.  Since when did Buffalo
or Baltimore and Ohio roads, for it could not cease to be a place of wholesale merchandising?
wait for the canal. This particular instance  Since the competition and low rates there has
shows the fallacy of pretending that railroads been just as many wholesale establishments in
must necessarily be confined to a specific class Buffalo as there were three years ago when the
of articles and specific rates, to do its business competition ccmmenced, and before it comwell.                                         mnenced. The wholesaling had ceased at Buffalo
And while I am on that subject, I want to call long before the rival lines were opened and the
your attention to this classification of canal and  competition commenced, and the change of their
rail freights. There is no line that will separate  trade is not because of these things. There are
and divide freights uniformly-one article always now in Buffalo as large wholesale establishments
on one side of the line, and another article al- as there ever was, but not so many of them.
ways on the other. In some places, all articles  The reason is because Buffalois not theright place
are canal freights, and ill others, all are railroad  for them.  It is not due to the prices of freight
freights.  As, for instance, at Port Jervis, on the  on canal and railroad and much less to a disNew York and Erie railroad, everything there  crim nation in those pr's  as to distance.  Itis
is railroad freight, because it canniot go to or due to other causes. NW.hen Buffalo was enfrom  that place by canal. And so, too, there  gaged in the wholesale trade, the merchants
are places where freight cannot be reached by  west had not the money to buy wholesale stocks
railroad. Then we come to a class of articles to sell. They came to Buffalo because it was
which belong to the rail, if they can get to the  only by tedious stage rides that they could reach
rail, by reason of their great value and the short New  York, consuming the valuable time of
time in which the carrying must be accomplished. the merchants. They found at Buffalo stocks
There is another class of articles that belong to  that accommodatedthem. There were wholesale
the railroad sometimes, and to the canal some- establishments but very small ones when com



56
pared to those of this day. Then a hundred Where the others exist, you have no legislative
thousand dollars in a wholesale business made control. The course of trade is between the
it a very large establishment, but that amount northwest, the west, the southwest and the eastmakes no sort of a wholesale establishment ern cites, which last are the gates of the comnow. As the tide of emigration and wealth and merce to Europe. What is wanted. You want
production and capital went west, Chicago came the commerce to go forward in such a way as to
to be the place which held the relation to the west be relieved of burdens, instead of putting it
that Buffalo had once held, in the purchasing and where they will be imposed upon it. Competiselling of merchandise between the west and tion enters the field of commerce, and the rates
the New York market. Then Buffalo was so far go down, benefiting the consumer at the east,
from New York that there was some object to be who gets his produce and provisions at cheaper
gained by purchasing a stock there and not go- rate, while the producer at the west gets a larger
ing to the Metropolis for it. But now the mer- compensation because the cost of carrying is less.
chant on arriving at Buffalo, he finds himself only  I do not care how you may speculate about it.
18 hours from  the Metropolis, which he call The consumer and producer are benefited just in
reach at a cost of nine dollars, and as he prefers proportion as you reduce the cost of transportato go where stocks are large and credits most de- tion, and the total amount of reduction is added
sirable, and where the attentions of the city are to the wealth of the people.
the most considerable, to New York he goes. Not   The competition goes on and prices run dlown.
only is that true of the general course of trade You propose by your statute to tax these lines of
but in the tendency of things for the people of railroad so that they cannot compete. Will that
Buffalo even go to New York to make their stop the competition? I takes from the gains
retail purchases.                            of two of your own lines of communication, and
4-~sk, is it possible that the Board of Directors built for that purpose, and only the Erie canal
of the New York Central Railroad, making a dis- remains. But the struggle between the Pennsylcrimination in the prices of freight in favor of vania Central, the Baltimore and Ohio, and the
long distances, has had anything to do with that. Grand Trunk still goes on; and unless the Erie
These remarks are true of all the changes. canal has the power, the capacity and facility of
The " whirligig of time brings about many chan- carrying all freights lower and quicker than
ges" —changes the footsteps of commerce-alters they, diversion will continue to go on. Have
the capacities of a community, and destroys the you done anything towards a remedy? Will not
relative value of localities. No statutes can stop that freight at the west find the eastern marts
the movement. That brings me to say that the and be sold there in the same kind of competilaws of trade extend over all civilized cornmuni- tion with Rochester and Western New York proties. They are as delicate and subtle as a tele- ducts that it otherwise would? I take the spegrapihic wire, and as strong as the Atlantic cable. cial instance complained of, that of tile RochesThose laws pay no attention to sovereignties, or ter miller. He buys his grain in Michigan, pays
state lines or political divisions! Nor can they freight on it to Rochester, grinds it there and
be made to; and until you find a legislature that then has to pay for the flour as much freight as
has power and jurisdiction as broad as the field they pay from Detroit to New York. Let us see
of commerce itself, you cannot regulate the laws the result of the proposal for remedy-the
of commerce by legislation. If you undertake measure which is to effect a cure of this difficulto do it in the State of New York and put up,ty. Notwithstan;ig  your prohibition on the
your adamantine statutes-making laws like the New York roads.ttbe flour of Detroit still finds
Medes and Persians, unchangeable, the effect ts way to the Ne York market just as cheaply
will only be to separate ourselves from the whole is before, and your pro rata law raises the prices
commercial world by the establishment of a of freight on the Rochester miller, and makes
different code that does not affiliate with and  he margin against him by so much the worse.
cannot control the code of the commercial world   ask if that is not the effect? Have we not
outside the state. Trade with the world and not proved that that is the tendency? I am not going
against it. Let me bring this down to a practical to say we have proved that it costs twice as much
point. Let us see if the remedy for this compe- to carry way freight;  I am only contending
tition is at all adequate to the pretended disease-  that the proof shows that it costs decidedly
is the plaster as large as the wound. What, is more. I am not going to say that all that has
it claimed, has brought about this competition-  been alleged is a mistake; but I do say that unthis terrible thing of competition, which in the less you call show that your act will compel
year 1859 has come, for the first time to be con- the Detroit man to pay more for carrying his
sidered a crime, though lauded and blessed produce to New York, it will not have the efiect
through all time hitherto. Competition has done you call for; and if you do succeed in that, I
all this. We used to bless competition as the then say that you have made the great radical
means that swept down the barriers of monopoly. mistake by your statute of increasing the price
But; now we come to the time when it is charged of transportation between the west and the city
that it is an act of oppressive monopoly for a of New York.
railroad to compete by reducing prices. The   I come now to another cause of complaint,
competition has been how and where. Why, namely, that the producer in Western New York
between Baltimore and Ohio, the Pennsylvania is damaged by the competition of the iProducers
Central, the New York and Erie, the New York of the far west monopolising his market inl New
Central, the Erie Canal and the Grand Trunk York. You propose a pro rata regulation as a
railroads. The last I have mentioned is not by remedy. I say it is no remedy, for the reason
any means the least. Call you stop that compe- that notwithstanding the pro rata, the produce
tition? Not until you have a power that shall of the far west would find its way to the eastern
extend over and control all these lines. Your seaboard at the same low rate while the pr,(dujurisdiction is limited to those within this state. cer in Central New York is taxed a higher rate,




57
by reason of that pro rata regulation-and the low rates. I am afraid that your pro rata will
margin is made even worse. That is true whether take away the capacity of the New York roas
the produce goes to' New York and Philadelphia  to carry cheap. I am not going into a detail f
by the Pennsylvania Central, or to Boston by the  this subject. All that has been done by the witGrand Trunk road. It is not necessary to pro- nesses better than I could do it. They underduce that effect that it should go to the city of stand the railroad business, as well as our exNew York, because a hundred thousand barrels perienced friends understand the canal business.
of flour in Philadelphia or Boston rules the price If I wanted advice about canals I would consult
in New York just as well as though it were in  canal men, if about railroads I would consult
the city of New York, with the exception of railroad men. On both sides they have been at
the difference in the transportation, which is not school and often to the school of adversity, the
more than five cents a barrel. Flour can not be best of all schools. They have studied with all
scarce and dear in New York and plenty and  possible inducements to learn, and to learn corcheap in Philadelphia or Boston. So that if you  rect.
stop up the channel of trade to the city of New    Gentlemen, you may say that I exaggerate the
York and divert this rich traffic to Philadelphia, consequences of this crisis. But when you connevertheless the evil to remedy, which you un- sider that the smallest amount of established
wisely undertook to apply the pro rata regula- advantage of one route over another, on the
tion, not only exists, but is increased. I ask if whole, will change the course of ally amount of
these positions are not tenable-if there is any  traffic that can be enumerated, you may well rereply to them? I do not mean to measure that flect that I do not overestimate the importance
effect by exactly so many cents and so many dol- of the crisis. Cities are built in this age by comlars. I show that such is the tendency; and I merce alone, and by commerce they are dessay that you cannot afford to encounter that ten-* troyed. New York and London may be desdency.                                       troyed by fire or by war, and New York and
Since when was it that New York outstripped  London will be rebuilt by the same causes that
Philadelphia in growth and commercial pros- created them. But if you change the laws that
perity 2 It dates from the time the Erie canal built them up so that contribution which built
afforded it better facilities for interior traffic. them up does not go on, but is withdrawn, they
It has made our city the Metropolis and our are sure to moulder and decay, and take their
state the Empire. Within two years, the en- rank among the ruined cities of the past. They
terprise of these cities has challenged our su- and their institutions will become ruined monupremacy; and they mean if they can to win it ments of a mistaken policy. There was a time
for themselves. They have afforded facilities when Bristol was the chief exporting and tradthat seem now to be as good as ours, and we ing town of England. Liverpool then was nothing.
begin to doubt whether we hild that superior Where it now is was nothing but uninhabited
position that we held before. [The struggle has marshes surrounded by a few fishermen. But
commenced, and it is a war T giants. There Bristol had a large number of little vexatious
are 150 millions of dollars of capital invested in  charges or tonnage taxes on vessels entering that
the railroads of the State of New  York, and  port, not expensive, but expressed in shillings
there are forty millions in the canals of the State and pence. Liverpool opened her port without
of New York, and these rival routes have a the shillings and pence tax, and soon the coasters
much larger investment than that. Here are resorted thither; the large vessels followed,
between 300 and 400 millions of dollars in- and in time it became a great maritime port,
vested in the interprises that are entered for built by the difference of a little wharfage
this struggle for supremacy in the traffic between  charges and tonnage duties of those two towns.
the East and the West! and it is not yet decided  Bristol is nowhere. Liverpool, by the laws of
who will hold it. It is a war of giants; put no growth and circumstances surrounding its posishackles, I pray, on the limbs of our chamin- tion, has grown up to be a great market, chiefly
pion. You hold the shears of Delilah, beware because it has been the cheapest and most favorhow you pass the glittering steel across his able port in the trade with America. The same
locks of strengtl.) With entire satisfaction, my  laws are still in operation; and they are very
learned friend,,4r. Cobb, produced statistics of likely to change the relation of Liverpool to
the tonnage and transportation on these great other towns in England. The lines of steamers
competing lines, showing that the New York  between New York and Liverpool have the trade
Central had its reasonable per cent of the aggre- of England alone at that end of the voyage to
gate amount, that the New York and Erie had  rely upon for profit. Farsighted men, whose
its reasonable per cent, that the Pennsylvania policy is lower rates and larger business have,
Central and Baltimore and Ohio had each its with admirable judgment and foresight, estabper cent of this traffic, and he triumphantly con- lished other lines of steamers. They run to and
cluded that notwithstanding all that had been  from the continent, touching at Southampton.
done by other states, the roads of New York  Starting from the continent with a compensating
had maintained their position.  So they did  cargo they can underbid Liverpool by a considerafter a hard fight, without much profit. But able figure. But for the government subsidy
that was done without any existing pro rata. the Cunard line, like the Collins' line, would
It was done because of low rates in competition, before this have ceased to run to Liverpool, and
which you are to stop by passing this law, and  now, even now there are more steamers touchrender it impossible for a New York road to go lug at Southampton than at Liverpool. Wait
into the market and take freights at low rates. a few years and the laws of trade will exhibit to
Pass this bill, and wait another year, and when  our children a Southampton more than a rival
you come to take statistics, you will find that to Liverpool. Why is this? These changes
there is no such division of the tonnage; the have resulted and still continue to result from
long freights will have left us, won from us by  the progress of ideas; from the ingenuity of
7




men; from the accumulation of capital; from  institution wielded for political purposes. The
improvements in science; from low rates; finally company is reaching out for traffic, and ~Wether
from the unshackled laws of trade. Therefore they make money or not, is of no account to us,
let no city boast that it standeth lest it fall.  provided they do the trade and continue to do
I have been a  lfal]onian.  For 20 years I it. Does it help us that they sink money by unlived in that city, ain-d id niall those years no  derbidding our railroads in this market? Not at
argument could satisfy a citizen of Buffalo that all. But, the gentlemen say, they will back
anything could stand in the way of its prosperity. down. Well, I think they will back down, but,
But it has lost its whoies aJgl d; and that is they certainly will not, unless we keep up the'l4 ao sieWit made mistakes in its competition. If we withdraw thls competition
policy, just such. as are proposed to be made ty shutting up two of our lines, the Grand
here. Twenty years ago, on this floor, a repre  Trunk will get our trade and retain it, at remuTsentative of th+4.city, by exertions which he nerative prices, and will grow  stronger and
plumed himself ecured the termination of the stronger with its successes.
New York and Erie railroad at Dunkirk. Some   Do you advise us to withdraw this competieighteen years ago, the Canada railroad, then  tion?  Is it not fortunate that some men have
about to be commenced, sent its Directors to invested a hundred and fifty millions of dollars
Buffalo, proposing its citizens to subscribe for a in these railroads, to fight out this battle for the
little of its stock, and aid in its conistruction, in  State of New York? Are you going to prohibit
return for which they would make Buffalo its this contest, and drive them into a corner where
eastern terminus. A meeting was held at the it is posible they may be broken down?
American Hotel, which I attended. A leading    I was sorry to hear the argument made by the
counselor of the town made a speech against gentleman who first addressed you in behalf of
the enterprise, and the aid sought was refused. these petitioners, Dr. Hunt of Buffalo. I was
By those two mistakes, Buffalo ceased to be a sorry it was made-its tone was so despairing of
point where the great railroads cross. They the enterprise of this State. It amounted to
forced from themselves those advantages which this: that it was of no use, we cou'd not get the
carry commerce with them, and trade has gone trade, or if we did, we should get it only by
from that town. The effect of the slighest mis- carrying it around three sides of a square, and
take of this kind may be felt for years to come, the line on the remaining side would beat us;
and a citizen of New York may live to see the and it wras of no use! The Grand Trunk railday when there is another city as prosperous way would break down; that the Pennsylvania
and as great as she. If by any means whatever would not make money, and the Baltimore and
the great portion of the western products should  Ohio could not compete with us, and therefore
be directed to the seaboard at Philadelphia, in- we should resigni, and in order to make it sure
stead of New York, it is as inevitable as that that we shall resign, the Legislature is asked to
men are wise and cupidity exists as an ele- pass a statute which makes it indispensable we
ment in human transactions, that the ships should resign. Is it true that the State of New
will go after that produce. And if they do that, York is to give up its trade. Only think what
it is just as inevitable that the imports brought an admission this is; that the State of New
in these ships will go to Philadelphia. I do not York has ceased to be the empire of commerce;
say that these things are going to happen, but I that our avenues cannot do the carrying trade
say it is the tendency, and the exact and only between the west and the east as well as other
tendency of the measure here proposed.        roads, and that this large expenditure shall be
It will do to speak slightingly of rivals. We given up.
ought to keep our courage up. We ought to   It is claimed that the whole amount wlieb
fight on thinking as little of them as is wise, but these railroads receive on through freight is lost
not too little, The Grand Trunk railway is an by them in expenses. Where does it go?  It
institution intended to compete for the western  goes for the citizens of this state. Five thoutraffic. It has invested in it sixty millions of sand-yes a!most six thousand men are employdollars, under circumstances that no return of ed in the New York and Erie road, and four
that capital is expectedand by the ruling pow- thousand and more on the New York Central,
ers is not looked for. t.I has entered for trade,  direct employees. A number very large, but
and England will male"such sacrifices for trade difficult to ascertain with certainty, derive their
a.s have never been thought of in this country. support by indirect connection with these enterWhat has England not done for trade? Can any prises. But allowing, for the sake of the arguman look and find a motive for England carry- ment, that the long freights do not pay much
ing on a twenty years' war against the first Na- profit to the railroad companies, nevertheless
poleon, that is not based upon a desire for the these four or five millions of dollars are spent in
trade of the Continent? England did not care the State of New York and paid for by the trade
one rush for legitimacy. This is proven by the of the west. That vast tonnage is all carried to
fact that she now is in alliance with the des- New York and exchanged for eastern commodicendant of that usurping Napoleon, now sitting ties, and a reasonable profit results to the New
on the throne of the Empire. That war was York merchwpts. Must it all be resigned? Why?.
carried on because Napoleon excluded from  What for?. Uimply that Oswego may grind, or
Europe the traffic of England. She carried it Rochester may grind, and that Buffalo ma sell
on with no care for the balance of power in at wholesale as well as at retaiT-i- htc as
Europe, but solely in order that her people be bienefted; thus imperiling the trade of the
might trade. England will spend any sums of state by interfering with its laws. Are you gomoney to secure a large trade. Why? In self- ing to tax the general commerce in order that a
defence she must have it, and must have con- locality may thrive?-or that a caste may sucstantly increasing in quantity. The Grand Trunk ceed.
railway is more than a railroad, it is a political   Let us go a little farther, and see whether this




power of discrimination is not common and ne-   Mr. FLAGLER inquired, if all the statements
cessary to all lines of traffic and all kinds of trade. had been made adverse to the petitioners.
Look at the Erie canal. It is always customary    Mr. THOMPSON —I was about to state, that I
in freights to charge different rates il. refernce read to the Committee the r.ames of several other
to the distance they are carried. Short distallnes experts in railroad transportation, whom I expay a higher rate than long distances. The very  pected to examine on this case. But the course
same discrimination on the canals has always of examination has been so rapidly pursued and
existed, and exists now. And provided this law  has been so clear and decisive and uncontradicted
be passed, it will not have the effect on the Erie in all the points we deem material to the quescanal that it is believed. The best you can tion, I shall forbear, in behalf of the three roads
inmagine is; that the canal will retain the same whom I represent, pressing upon the Committee
amount of business it has been accustomed to do. the examination of any further witnesses on these
I will now call your attention to the respective points at this time. It seems to me, that if anyinterests of Oswego and Buffalo, kch  are     thing was ever proven before a Committee. or in a
to be involved in this question. it is the old court of justice, beyond contradiction, it is the
question which has been debated   this House facts which thave been testified to, to-day by Mr.
by the month, that high tolls pro rated would  Brooks, and which lhave been confirmed by the
send everything by the lakes to Oswego, and low  evidence of every other witness that has come
tolls sends it by Buffalo. The contest between upon the stand. We have brought gentlemen
Buffalo and Oswego, as such, are immaterial; from cities in the west, from cities in the east,
but the principle illustrated is the same as pro- from cities at the south, and from points where
posed in the pro rata law. Let me illustrate it. these converging lilies come together, and all
Pro rata will compel a fixed rate per ton per testify to one uniform state of facts,-they all
mile between the lakes and the Hudson. It is confirm the testimony of Mr. Brooks, given in a
(say) 300 miles from Buffllo to Albany, and say clear and intelligent manner; and I therefore
2OU from Oswego to Albany. The lake will brilg deem it unnecessary to further trouble the Comrnfreights from Chicago or Detroit to Oswego about inittee, or waste its time, if they deem it such, to
as cheap as to Buffalo.  Oswego has always examine the other witnesses announced to be
claimed that they could freight just as cheap, examined. They hlave been in attendance duradding the trifling toll of the Welland canal. ing the day, while the testimony already in was
The rail rates being pro rata and high, the  being elicited.
freights would of course seek the shortest rail   Now, I do not propose to trouble the Commitline because it would be cheaper. Suppose, for tee with a summing up on the evidence of this
example, that the pro rata tariff on any quantity  case. It has been rather pleasantly objected, that
were $1.00 from Buflklo to Albany by rail, it I have made three speeches before the Commitwould be but 66 cents from Oswego to Albany, tee already. I felt it necessary, in the opening of
a difference sufficient to change the course of this proceeding, both for my own convenience
every ton of freight on the lakes.            and the enlightenment of the Committee, that
It is proper for me to add, that the proof you should have line upon line and precept upon
shows us that the pro rata measure would lose precept —here a little and there a little. I knew
us a portion or all of the traffic from beyond the this well; where great efforts had been made to
border of the state. That loss we cannot afford prejudice the mind of the Committee, and the
to encounter. That it would increase largely the mind of this House and the minds of the people
charges upon transportation within this state. at large, upon this most important subject, I
That increase would be a great misfortune. knew that members of the Committee might
That it would strike down and destroy great in- come here, as members of the House had come,
terests under the mistaken idea that it would with their minds made up in reference to this
build up small interests. It would reverse the  matter, upon the false and fraudulent allegations
policy that has made us great, and in fact be an  which are contained in these petitions, every
act of voluntary abdication of the empire of one of which have turned out to be untrue in
commerce ot which we are now so greatly proud. fact, and unfounded, so far as their deductions
You, gentlemen of the committee, may have a and reasonings are concerned.
potential voice in deciding this momentous   I mean, therefore, to occupy the attention of
question. There is much more which I could the Committee but for a few moments, by way
wish to say, but after thanking you for the pa- stating what I deem we have proven beyond all
tient hearing you have afforded me, I will con- question and equivocation, so that if your lionelude by saying, that the measure under conside- ors were sitting as jurors in a court of justice to
ration is one of proposed legislative interference determine upon the truth or falsity of these allewith the laws of trade which will not produce gations, you would not be obliged to leave the
the effects desired by the petitioners, but rather jury box before saying that the allegations in
aggrevate the mischiefs from which they ask re- these petitions are not made out-that the inlief. That the evils of which they complain are dictment is false and fraudulent, and that the
in fact a public benefit, for which we ought to  defendants are not guilty of the offense which
be thankful.                                  the petitioners have laid to their charge. Now,
If the railroads can indeed transport cheaper Mr. Brooks states to you, after showing what his
than the canals, we are unfortunate, and I am  opportunities have been -for judging-the time
glad of it; and the State of New York could he has spent in the operation of railroads, the
adopt no worse policy than to so hamper them  attention which he has given to the business-he
by statutes as to destroy that capacity.      states that the cost of operating railroads in the
All taxes are burdens, and there could be transportation of through freights is different
nothing more unwise than for this state to tax, in from the cost of their operation in the transportaany degree, that great western commerce upoin tion of way freights;-that the cost of moving
which her prosperity so completely depends.    through freights is less by nearly half on the




60
average than the cost of moving way freights. and drawn up by these petitioners, and is preThis is one proposition which I submitted in the sented to the House, would operate only as a
opening remarks which I made. We have proved  notification to rival lines that our rates were fixed,
that by Mr. Brooks, by Mr. Hubbie, by Mr. Phil- and they would only have to drop their rates a
lips, by Mr. Stone, and by the testimony of every  cent or two lower than ours to take away, insingle witness who has been examined in behalf evitably, all the through business of the road;
of the interests adverse to the petitioners; and  and if this through business was taken from
all the ingenuity which our ingenious friends on  us, one important source of emolument and
the other side have displayed in the cross-exami-  compensation, these roads would be deprived
nation of our witnesses, for the purpose of con- of, because two-thirds, in the estimation of
tradicting, limiting or modifying the testimony  some of the witnesses, of the cost and equipwhich has been given, has signally failed in its ment of the road, is in consequence of the way
aim, for not a witness has varied in his testimony  business, and that the way business is the prinone iota. And what is remarkable, is that these  cipal business contemplated by the road. Take
gentlemen, after 20 years experience on most of any of these roads in the State of New York,
the principal railroads of the United States, unite  and the principal business of it is the way busiin stating to you, as men upon their honor, that ness. Witnesses state that two-thirds of all the
the relative cost of through and way freights cost of construction is properly chargeable to
differs in the precise ratio of one to two.   way business; and you can operate a road with
Now, is this committee, in the knowledge of new or through business, without taking into
its members-which certainly is not as exten- consideration the two-thirds of the construction
sive as the knowledge of the gentlemen who  account chargeable to way and freight business,
have been examined-will this committee, I say, only one-third being the cost of the through
on the ipse dixit of the gentlemen on the other business; and therefore all these calculations on
side, say that these statements are not to be re- the other side are utterly fallacious, because it is
lied upon; that they are fallacious; that they  the only business they can do in addition to
are made up by railroad men, and therefore not their ordinary rates of compensation-in the orto be regarded? Certainly not I Great interests dinary business they are called upon to perform.
of this description are not to be trifled with in    We have proved, further, by the judgment of
this way. Whenl we have proved this beyond  these witnesses, that such would not only be
all question, beyond all alliteration, by the ex- the inevitable result of a fixed tarriff which
amination and cross-examination of experienced  could not be altered for a month, but we have
and intelligent witnesses, I put down their state- proved also, that such has beet the result on
ments as evidence of fixed fact, which the com- rival lines in two instances.  Prior to 1858,
mittee will regard as proved, in making up their when these southern lines had  ot completed
report, either pro or con in this matter.     their connection with the extreme west, the
Now, we have proved, -in the second place, Central and Erie Railroads maintained somethat the cost of transporting freight in the win- thing  like arbitrary  rates  for transporting
ter is double the cost of transporting it in the  through freights. The result was, that the mosummer. We have given you the reasons for all ment the rival lines in the south were completed,
this: first, on account of the frost hardening the  they commenced underbidding, and the competrack, throwing up the track and bending the  tition of 1858 at once ensued, which resulted,
rails, fringing the locomotive with icicles, and  after a severe struggle, lasting some time, in
filling up the track with snow, so that three or these roads coming to their senses, and asking a
four locomotives are frequently employed in  remunerative rate for the carriage and transclearing the track, with all the available force of portation of freight along the lines. That comthe railroad company, to get it in a condition so  pact was violated again the next year, and
that freight and passenger trains may proceed on  in April, 1859, commenced another unprecetheir course. On this, as well as on various dented struggle between these rival lines for suother accounts, which have been testified to be- ~premacy. And that.truggle continued unti,
fore the committee, and certified to as if upon  the 15th of July, 1859 land I may here remarki
oath, winter transportation costs more than sum- that almost every ins"ce of extreme low rates,
mer by from  one-third to one-half; and that, for freights, which is contained in this publicasecondly, the roads through the State of New  tion of the Clinton League, is covered by the time
York have all this disadvantage to cope with in  between March 15th, and July 15th, 1859 -;
their conflict and contest for the through busi- taken and instanced falsely and unfairly, so far
ness with the Pennsylvania Central and Balti- as the'se operations upon general principle is conmore and Ohio roads, in the south; and that this cerned. Although they may be facts standing
disadvantage on the Grand Trunk line is com- by themselves, yet in the relation in which they
pensated to some extent by the fact that that are put, they are false, and unfair, andl incorrect,
road has a wider bed, is thrown up considerably  and are instanced for the purpose of showing
above the water ways, so that the snow blows what has been the usual practice of railroad
off from the track, and that it is a long line, con- companies in reference to this through tralnsstructed over a country which gives it every ad- portation. These low rates were made at a time
vantage it can; which has been fostered by  when these rival lines were struggling for sugovernment, and which has endeavored to take  premacy, and are brought in here by the agents
care of the road from its inception up to the  of the Clinton League and the petitioners for the
present moment. So that this second fact I purpose of prejudicing the committee, and have
have sLbstantiated beyond all question, namely, been sown broadcast over the country during the
that winter transportation costs far more than  last political campaign, and have been put into
summer transportation.                        the hands of every candidate for office for the
Then, we have proven a third fact, and that is, purpose of warping his judgment in the case.
that a..pro rata tariff, such as is contemplated  Gentlemen have told me over and over again,




61
that'they have been utterly surprised at the therefore, to make a through tariff which will
fallacy of the allegations contained in these give us this through business. In  the next
papers upon which they gave pledges. Nay, place we carry large quantities of milk. It is
more, they come here, some of them, pledged  started at a time which is convenient for the
that if this state of facts was true they might transportation of that kind of merchandise, runs
feel called upon to interpose some mode of at a high rate of speed, stopping at Castleton
legislation for the  purpose of correcting it. and taking on milk, and so at every station to
But they find that it is not true; that it is the New York. Our agent tells you that it is worth
exception and not the rule, and that the only  as much and that the company has uniformly
salvation of the New York lines is that they, received as much for the transmission of that
shall have the privilege of putting down rates  freight from the lowest station as from the highon their through freights provided rival lines est station, within 20 miles of the city of Al-.undertake to bid below them, and that the mo- bany-that the reason is, it requires the same
ment the Legislature undertakes to tie them  handling of cans, taking them  on and putting
hand and foot and make their rates at a precise them off, and is attended with the same responfigure, no more and no less, that moment they  sibility, is conveyed on the same train which
put? a knife to the throat of every road in the takes the milk on the whole line on the way
state of New York, and though it is done to  down. Now it is precisely the same with refer-'ben'efit the canals, yet the only benefit to any one ence to the very last can put on within 20 miles
is to these rival lines of railroads in the north  of New York, as if the train had started from
and south. It is an utter piece of suicide, with- Albany, for the sole purpose of putting on that
out any compensating advantage whatever.       can. And the can of milk within 20 miles of
We find, further, from the testimony of these the city of New York has just as much right to
witnesses that these rival lines, which gentlemen  be pro rated, in reference to the whole amount
on the other side say there is no danger of compe- of milk carried from  Castleton to the city of
ting with us, we find them active and energetic in  New York, as these gentlemen have to beseech
all the cities on the seaboard; that they havelthree the powers of this legislature, and its committee
or four offices in Broadway, New York, offices in to pro rate (which I believe means give to the
Boston, and agencies in all the western states and rats in good Latin) freights along the line of the
cities on western thoroughfares, soliciting this Central and Erie Railroads, between stations this
through freight. And yet gentlemen pretend  side of Buffalo or Rochester, and the cities of
here that there is no danger that it will be di- Albany or New York.
verted from the lines of the State of N'ew York;   We have proved another thing. incidentally,
that it is certain to flow into the canal if it does which is a tender point with my friend on the
not go on the railroads under these adamantine  other side.
rates of freight. It would be amusing, the man-   Mr. COBB-Don't spare me.
ner these gentlemen trifle with these great inte-   Mr THOMPSON-The  excellent gentleman
rests, were it not so serious a subject-to see the  our Scretary of the Clinton  e (Mr. Cobb),
manner in which these gentlemen come here and  that m          b       - 0  as spread its ramiassume against the interests of these railroad                      lt -i/ the State of New York,
companies to act for the stockholders-self-con- arkd into pqyeayxmanufacturing, mechanical and
stituted guardians of those who  are in the poliitic'al'department, that gentleman seemed not
clutches of these unwise directors whom they  to comprehend the facts which were testified to
L.tve chosen to take care of their interests; by one of the witnesses with reference to the difstockholders and bondholders who are clamor- ference in favor of the transportation which
ing at the doors of this legislature, according to would go down the lakes and land at Oswego,
the assumption of these modest gentlemen, for and the same property landed at the city of Roprotection against their own agents! I repudiate chester. It was shown that there was some 15
the assumption on the part of those gentlemen. or 20 cents in favor of flour, and a like proporI appear here for the Central Railroad to repre- tion in favor of wheat taken to New York via
sent its interests, by virtue of an appointment;  Oswego from the west, than that taken by Buffahave the legal power to make that representa- lo. And the gentlemen have requested me very
tion. I represent the Hudson River Railroad by  tenderly not to get up any difficulty between the
virtue of the request of its President. I repre- cities of Buffalo and Oswego.  But I cannot
sent the Boston Branch, running from Chatham  bear, as a citizen of this State, that any unwise
Four Corners to Hudson, at the request of or injudicious discrimination shouldae made in
Mr. Powers, its officer. I represent these seve- favor of Oswego against Buffalo. Buffalo has
ral personal and private interests, and I object to builded her warehouses in days of greater prosthe gentlemen on the other side, and who are perity than those in which she has now fallen.
opposed to these interests, assuming to repre- 8he has had her lines of steamers and propelsent them, and if they still claim to represent lers, and many of them are now lyii)g high and
them, I call for the power of attorney.        dry without business; and the r   s are running
Now, sir, let me state further what we have through some of the storehouses.  For one, as a
proven. We have proven that it is impossible citizen of New York, I shoulde reluctant to
for lines of unequal length to run from a com- deplete Buffalo for the benefit of Oswego. Osmon centre and receive the same amount pro  wego is a youlg, beautiful and flourishing town;
rata for the freight they carry.  It is an utter growing more and more prosperous, and from
impossibility, the witnesses say, the long lines the enterprise and intelligence of her politicians
will not consent to it. And here are some pe- and her forwarders-gentlemen who are here,
culiarities in reference to the Hudson River quick and alert to look out for her interests, she
Railroad which I think ought to be mentioned. will be well cared for. But I do protest against
In the first place we compete with the river dur- this pro rata legislation sustained by Oswego
ng eight months of the year. We are compelled, men for the purpose of cutting off Buffalo and




62
giving to their own city an undue and improper ated himself for such a foolish reason, he had
advantage.                                    better get back again to his own home as quickly
I think we have proved another thing. I think  as he can. It is said further, that it has deprewe have proved that this allegation which has ciated the price of lands and made the west our
been so often rung in the ears of the committee, rivals; in other words, that it cheapens breadand in the ears of the assembly through all the  stuffs and prevents speculation. I desire to know
papers, of an unjust discrimination against the  if there is any natural or political right in a percitizens of this State, is untrue and falls to the  son living nearest market to have the greatest
ground. It is a pieceof clap-trap-one of those advantage; on the contrary, all our modes of
popular humbugs which men make use of for transportation and communication, whether by
political, personal party purposes; but the mo- steamboat or railroad, have been lauded and apment you test it by the facts it ceases to be of proved, over and over again for the last 20 years,
any influence. Against whom do you discrirni- because they brought those furthest from the
nate in carrying through freights on our railroads market into competition with those who were
for such a compensation as is adequate to the  near; thus benefiting the consumer by cheapencarrying of it? Against none, unless it can be ing the cost of the breadstuffs for the poor man
shown that as the prices of through freight falls to sustain his wife and children. I call that a
way freiaht rises.  Has it not been  proved  benefit, not an evil. But by the tables which
that these two modes of transportation are upon  have been put in here this afternoon, the fact is
entirely different footings-that one is carried  apparent that the lines in the western part of the
on by agencies and influences which do not be- State of New York, through which the canals
long to and are not necessarily employed by the and railroads run, have been increasing in value
other? This has been testified to by every wit- constantly for the last 25 or 30 years.
ness produced by us, and we might have proved    But the gentlemen say, they are here benevoit by 50 more-men connected with railroad  lently to prevent the railroads carrying fireight
transportation. We have shown, as to this mat- for less than they can afford. Is there any proof
ter of discrimination between long and short of that?  Is there any proof that it is carried for
routes, that it is a principle applicable to ocean  less than the roads can afford to carry it? I deny
navigation, to all river navigation, canal naviga- that there is any proof. All that is speculation.
tion (and even on the canals of our own State it They have no data on the other side, no proof;
is held to), and railroad transportation. It has they are not practical railroad men; and unless
become a law of commerce.  It has been pur- this Committee is to take allegation and clamor
sued from the beginning-is unchanged and un- for proof, then the evidence is conclusive on the
changeable. It is not in the power of the corn- side of the company that they carry at remunemittee, without destroying every interest which  rative rates. But a single witness testified that
they are called upon here to protect, to make  freight had been carried for less than could be
any such iron rule as will interfere with this afforded: Mr. Briggs, who speaks of somle cattle,
natural mode of conducting this transportation  flour and a few articles which were carried by
business. It cannot be made remunerative upon  the Hudson River Railroad. He admitted that
any other principle than those upon which it is they were compelled to carry them down at less
now  conducted.  A gentleman getting into a than remunerative rates, and that the reason was,
stage-coach at the foot of the Alleganies, where they should otherwise gone down empty for the
a double team has to be put on, and i- drawn up  freights which were brought back by the train
an ascent of three or four miles to the top of the  oil its return, so that it was profitable to the
hill, might just as well get out of the coach and  company to take the freights even at these low
demand to pro rate his fare on the basis of the rates under the circumstances; and besides they
passenger's fare who traveled 400 miles, as the  came in competition with river navigation and
shipper of way freight on these railroads.    were compelled to accept low rates.
But it is said that these unequal rates do not   We have shown further, that passengers folgive to persons the same benefits. I reply, that low freight, and that they are an important
no mode of transportation ever did. Second, item in these modes of transportation; and that
the property would increase instead of diminish- if they are taken off-taken away from these
ilug in value, especially for tall light, valuable  roads, it is a loss considerably more in the ratio
goods. Even classification cannot remedy the as to the cost of their transportion than even the
evil, and it has never done so. It was further loss of freight.
said, that the manutacturers have moved out of   WVe have proved further, beyond all question,
the state to get lower freights. I think gentle- that the commerce of the city of New York,
men have been mistaken on this subject. I think  has increased by the amount of freight which
no man could be so unwise as to move out of has poured into her. And for one, I have always
the State of New York from either along the line had great pride in the Empire city of the Empire
of the canal or either of our railroads into some State. I have loved to see her wiharves crowded
distant point beyond the line of all of them for with commerce; to see her streets thronged
the purpose of getting his goods to market at a with a busy population; to see her hundred
cheaper rate than he could get it from his former thousand chimneys smoking with the evidences
location. I think such cannot be true. Our of industry, thrift and mechanic arts; and I
people are a migrating people. The fact that a desire to enter my protest here once and forever
man has moved from this state into Wisconsin, against any policy that shall cripple her strength,
Michigan or Illinois, is no evidence that he has that shall drive away the commerce from her,
moved out to get lower local freights, for the  that shall cut off those arteries of communication
testimony is, that on those western lines he  that are pouring this life-blood into and through
would be compelled to pay higher local rates her, by an insane experimenting upon how
than he would on our own roads. So where is much she may be depleted and yet survive.
the gain., His gain is a loss. If he has expatri- New York has a deep interest in this question.




63
It is there that these great thoroughfares carry constructed on their borders. But I don't mean
the commerce which passes over them, and to say here that unless the canal is protected by
which they are struggling for not only for their undue legislation-unless you put railroad tariffs
own bellefit, but for the purpose of benefit- upon all competing lines that canals cannot live.
ing the commerce and trade of the State of I do not believe it. For one I suppose that when
New York, and in our state, remember it well, the canal is enlarged-when it is " speedily enthat when one member suffers all the members larged," in the language of some of the democratic
suffer with it. If New York is injured or de- papers-it will fulfill the hopes of those who
pleted, and her commerce destroyed, there is have always been in favor of the canal and of
no business interest in the whole Empire State the canal policy. But I say now, as I said bethat is not jeopardised and injured.         fore, if the canal cannot live on its own merits
Now I shall go over thevarious other grounds by the freight which naturally comes to it when
which have been occupied by the witnesses, be- enlarged to its full capacity, and when steam is
cause I find I am already taking too much time. the power used to propel its boats, then I say let
I find, gentlemen of the committee, in the it go down, and the quicker the better. It can
course of this examination that there are never live by taxing railroad lines for its supthree classes of persons who are signing these port. No interest ever ought to live any more
petitions. In the first place, I find more poli- than the old scows ought to live on the Hudson
ticians who want revenue. They think it popu- if they cannot do so except by taxing the raillar to cry up the canals and cry down the rail- ro t$on its borders.
roads, with the view of setting these two inter-  Ihen, a third class who advocate this measure,
ests in antagonism  one to the other. This has I fid to be the millers, merchants and mechanbeen one of the occupations of the Clinton ics along the line of the roads, who want to enLeague for a year or two past-to poison the joy cheap freights, who are restive under adpublic mind and give to this matter a political vanced rates in the winter, and are anxious that
turn. For one, I desire that there shall be no this bill should pass. I have to say, on this
influence of that kind brought to bear upon this point, that all merchandise au  freight sells
committee. I believe they have the manliness higher in winter thanki summer That, I think,
and courage, and honor, to stand up and look is the general rule. D en, in the winter, but litthis question full in the face; look at it from the tle freight passes over the line, except flour, and
facts which have transpired, and not from false the increased price of the commodirt secures a
and fraudulent allegations which have been sown profit, even at the enhanced expensoe  But, aside
broadcast over the country.                  from this consolation, we have proved that the
I find another party interested and aiding in25 per cent advance contemplated by this bill is
this cry-the forwarding interest-who contend altogether too low as a winter tariff. All our
that this competition is turning away the bulk witnesses put the increased expense at 50 per
of the canal transportation. But the difficulty  cent.
is, with these gentlemen, they are not in a condi-   So far as I am concerned, I return my thanks
tion to look at the matter intelligently because to the committee for listening  to my four
their craft is in danger. They suppose the canal speeches. All I can say, I had not time to make
craft to be in danger. They suppose that this them shorter in the opening of the case. We
measure is to pour the tide of transportation had two objects in view-one was to enlighten
through the canals, and, therefore, their interests ourselves and the committee, and the second
are concerned in breaking down railroads. But was to occupy the tilne until we got our witnesses
I think these gentlemenl are mistaken. I think  here. The second speech, which my honorable
they must be convinced by this investigation  friend, Mr. Smith, complains of as communicathat they are a little mistaken-that there is no ting nothing new, seemed to be necessary, bereason why the canal should be deemed antago- cause the witnesses I desired to examine did not
nistic to the railroad interest. But, as I intimated happen to be here on the stand. However, we
when I opened this case to the committee, if have got through this matter very pleasantly;
that were the fact, what are the ominous fore- and I have no doubt that when the committee
bodings for the future of a new mode of trans- come to make up their rerort, there will not be
portation as contrasted with the old? What are a single man who will put his name to a report
the forebodings of history? We have evidence in favor of a pro rata, and that we may regard
that canals have been abandoned and railroads it as a subject dead and buried for the future.








STATE OF NEW YORK.
No. 47.
IN ASSEMBLY, FEB. 1, 1860.
REPORT
Of a MajorUy of the Select Committee on Petilions for regulating freights on Railroads in this State.
Mr. Flagler in behalf of said committee, respectfully submits
the following
REPORT:
The subject referred to your committee is universally admitted
to be of the first importance, and has agitated the public mind for
several years past. During the last Legislature, especially, numerous and earnest petitions from the people-invoked the interposition of law to protect them from the alleged injurious discriminations in rates of freights imposed by railroad corporations of
this State. Protracted examinations and discussions before three
several committees of the last Assembly, to whom the subject was
successively referred, delayed the introduction of a bill for the
relief of the petitioners until a period so near the close of the session that the friends of the measure were unable to obtain a decision upon it before the final adjournment. This opportunity
afforded the opponents of the pro rata measure during the last
session, while it accomplished the defeat of the law, has not been
without its advantages, since it has admonished your Committee
against unduly yielding to similar calls for delay, and has aided
in the return of the question to the Assembly in ample time for
its adjudication.
Another important result flowed from the investigations and
discussions before the committees of the Assembly at the last session. We refer to the able and elaborate report (Assembly document, No. 178,) submitted to the Assembly by Messrs. H. A.
[Assembly No. 47.]          1




2                    [ASSEMBLY
Lyon, L. Ranney and S. A. Law, a majority of a select committee
on that subject. That report established by its startling array of
facts the existence and magnitude of the discriminations against
our citizens in the railroad management of this State, and the urgent necessity of restraint and correction. Your committee adopt
as conclusive the statements and arguments of that report in regard
to the propositions therein discussed. The publication of several
thousand copies by the Assembly, and its extensive republication
in newspaper and pamphlet form has brought its statistics and
cogent reasonings in contact with the public mind throughout the
State.
By these and kindred means the attention of the community has
been arrested, and a public sentiment-quite too long dormant,
while high-handed abuses of privileges granted to railroad corporations were continued and multiplied-came at last to be almost
universally and intensely aroused; so that from all quarters of
the State-east, west, north and south, from canal counties and
railroad counties, from localities long and richly favored with
public improvements and from those also hitherto sequestered
and now soliciting some proportionate share of public benefitfrom these, and all of these, the people as with one united and
earnest voice plead with us, their representatives, for protection
against improper and ruinous railroad management. They as of
right demand of us, their servants, to compel those corporations
to recognize our citizens as the equal of the citizen of other
States, and that we shall secure to the former, under legal sanctions and penalties, the use of those roads on as favorable terms
as they grant to all the world besides. This mandate of the people
it will be the height of wisdom for us to obey, unless indeed we
come to the conclusion that we are wiser than those who have
laid upon us the responsibilities of legislation, and can give safe
and ample reasons for our disobedience. Impressed with these
considerations, your committee entered upon the duty assigned
to them by the Assembly.  Their sessions were frequent and
protracted. The principal railroad of this State was promptly
notified that the subject was before the committee. Officers and
counsel of that road, and also in succession, representatives of
other railroads in this State, presented themselves with their explanations and arguments. Managers of confederate. railroads in
other States, were present, also, with their statements in behalf
of their associate corporations.
The time of your committee has been chiefly engrossed in




No. 47.]                      3
listening to these pleas, in denials or extenuation of the practices
charged by the memorialists upon railroad management in this
State, and the novel and extraordinary course of its apologists
before your committee is referred to in explanation of the delay
in reporting the conclusions of the committee to the Assembly.
In behalf of the petitioners, several citizens of our State appeared with ample proofs, confirming the convictions of your
committee that the petitioners do not err in their statements as
to the improper practices charged upon the railroads of this state
or exaggerate the mischiefs thereby entailed upon the people.
PROPOSITIONS ON WHICH THE QUESTION RESTS.
Several distinct methods are instanced in which the railroads
of this State abuse their privileges and oppress our citizens, viz:
1. Property of citizens of other States is allowed transportation on them for less-much less-proportionably than the products of our own citizens.
2. Citizens of given localities in this State are compelled to pay
unequal rates of transportation as compared with other localities.
3. Citizens of our State are at times entirely debarred from
sending their products by New York railroads, while the entire
force of these roads is given for long periods to moving the preferred property of the citizens of other states.
4. Losses on freights carried for citizens of other states are not
only made up, but large profits in the aggregate are secured by
extravagant rates charged our citizens.
These propositions your committee regard as established beyond
all cavil or contradiction. Not only have those practices obtained
in former years, but they are continued to the present time.
SPECIMENS OF DISCRIMINATION IN RATES OF 1859.
Specimens of comparative freight tariffs were exhibited to your
committee in the presence of the representatives of railroads
implicated, and the literal correctness of them not denied.
A few of these are adduced as proving the continuance and
extent of discrimination.
March (previous to opening of canals), New York Central Railroad carried flour, Sandusky to New York at 65c. per bbl. Tariff
price, Buffalo to New York, 70c.
April, New York Central Railroad: Pork, Chicago to New York,
at $1 per bbl. Tariff price, Buffalo to New York, 75c. Flour,
Chicago to New York, at 50c. per bbl. Tariff price, Rochester to
New York, 40c.




4                     [ASSEMBLY
April, New York and Erie Railroad: Flour, Chicago to New
York, at 50c. per bbl. Tariff price, Portageville to New York, 65c.
April, New York and Erie Railroad: Flour, Buffalo to New
York, at 40c. per bbl. Tariff price, Owego to New York, 50c.
April, New York Central Railroad: Furniture in boxes, New
York to Cleveland, at 60 c. per 100. Tariff price, Troy to Buffalo,
/0c.
May, New York Central Railroad: Flour, Toledo to New York,
at 35c. per bbl. Tariff price, from Buffalo, Lockport, Bloomfield,
&c., 40c.
May, New York Central Railroad': Merchandize, New York to
Buffalo, 1st class, 40c.; 2d, 30c.; 3d, 30c.; 4th, 20c. New York
to Chicago, Ill., all classes, 25c. per 100 lbs.
May, New York and Erie Railroad: Hides, Chicago, Ill., to
New York, at 28c. per 100 lbs.  Tariff, Buffalo to New York, 35c.
~May, New York and Erie Railroad: Merchandize, New York to
Milwaukee, Wis., 1st, 2d, 3d and 4th classes, at 20c. per 100 lbs.
New  York to Binghamton, 1st class, 50c.; 2d, 40c.; 3d, 30c.;
4th, 20c. per 100 lbs. New York to Owego, 1st class, 55c.; 2d,
47c.; 3d, 35c.; 4th, 27c. per 100. Owego to Dunkirk, 1st class,
63c.; 2d, 47c.; 3d, 35c.; 4th, 27c. per 100.
May, New York and Erie Railroad: Provisions, 1,000 bbls.,
Toledo to New York, at 17lc. per 100 lbs. Tariff price, Buffalo
to. New York, 20c.
May, New York Central Railroad: Stock hogs, Chicago to New
York, 40c. per 100 lbs. Tariff price, Buffalo to Canastota, N. Y.,
65c.
May, New York Central Railroad: Flour was carried from
Indianapolis, Ind., to New York, at 67c. per bbl.  Tariff, Indianapolis to Buffalo, 60c.; tariff, Buffalo to New York, 40c.-$1.
May, New Yodrk Central Railroad: Oil (Linseed), New York to
Buffalo, at 20c. per 100. Tariff, Albany to Buffalo, 35c.
May, New York Central Railroad: Flour, St. Louis, Mo., to
New York, at 62c. per bbl.  Tariff, East Bloomfield to New
York, 40c.
May, New York Central Railroad (all rail): Merchandize, New
York to Cincinnati, O., 1st class, 80c.; 2d, 60c.; 3d, 40c.; 4th,
30c. per 100 lbs. Tariff price, New York to East Bloomfield;
N. Y., 1st class. 72c.; 2d, 44c.; 3d, 38c.; 4th, 32c. per 100 lbs.
May, New York Central R. R.: Knock-down furniture, New
York or Boston to Urbana, Ill., at 30c. per 100 lbs. Tariff price,
Buffalo to Urbana, 57c.
May, New York and Erie R. R.: Flour, Chicago, Ill., to New
York, at 42c. per bbl.  Tariff price, Buffalo to Corning. 35c.; Elmira, 40c.; Owego, 45c.; Great Bend, 50c.; Deposit, 55c.; Hancock Station, 55c.; Narrowsburgh, 65c.; Pt. Jervis, 67c.
June, New York Central R. R.: Pork, Louisville, Ky., to New
York, at 15c per 100 lbs., out of which the road paid 5c. lake
freight, leaving 10c. per 100 lbs. to be pro-rated between 800 miles




No. 47.]                      5
of railroad. Tariff, Buffalo to Auburn, 124 miles, is 15c. per 100
lbs. Tariff, Auburn to Syracuse, 26 miles, is 10c. per 100 lbs.
June, New York Central R. R.: Carried wheat, in bags, from
Louisville, Ky., to New York, at 25c per 100 lbs.-15c. per bushel.
Tariff on wheat, East Bloomfield to New York, is 25c. per 100.
June, New York Central R. R.: Flour, Louisville, Ky., to NewYork, at 40. per bbl. Tariff, Louisville to Buffalo, was 60c. Tariff,
Buffalo to New York was 40c.= —$1.00.  Tariff, Rochester, Lockport and Bloomfield, 40 c.
July, New York and Erie R. R.: Carried flour, Detroit to New
York, at 45c. per bbl.  Tariff from Addison Station to New York,
60c.
June, New York Central R. R.: Carried cattle from Sandusky,
O., to New York, at $35 per car. Tariff, East Bloomnfield to A1bany, $57 per car.  Tariff, sheep and swine to Albany, $69 per
car.
June, New York and Erie R. R.:  Cattle, Chicago, Ill., to New
York, at $35 per car. Tariff, Sprinigwater, to New York, $85
per car.
June, New York and Erie R. R.: Cattle, Toledo, O., to New York,
at $35 per car.  Tariff, Binghamton to New York, $60 per car.
Tariff, sheep and swine, $70 per car.
December, New York Central R. R.: Dressed Hogs, Cleveland,
O., to New York, at 65c. per 100. Tariff, Buffalo to New York,
60c. Tariff, Batavia to New York, 65c. Tariff, Cleveland to Buffalo, 22c. per 100.
Your committee are of opinion that no extended remarks are
needful to impress the minds of all with a sense of the palpable
injustice of the railroad freighting system of this State.
The facts speak trumpet-tongued, proclaiming that our citizens
have urgent cause to present themselves before this Legislature
for relief.
EXCLUSION OF OUR CITIZENS FROM RAILROAD TRANSPORTATION.
There is another mode, as already stated, in which citizens of
this State are deprived of the benefits contemplated in the construction of railroads within our borders. It is their exclusion, at
times, from railroad transportation while citizens of other states
extensively enjoy it.  This system of embargo laid upon the property of our citizens, has been in operation, it appears, for several
years and was never more rigorous or severe in its effects than
during the fall of 1859.
The short crops in 1858 limited freights by canals until the
movement of the crop of 1859. Scarcity of canal freights and
unremunerative prices had driven a large portion of the boatmen
navigating our canals to the laying up of their boats, so that there




6                    [ASSEMBLY
was an inadequate supply to move the property suddenly and
unexpectedly thrown upon them about the middle of October.
As'appears by bills of lading shown to your committee, these bills
for Buffalo shippers, even of through property, came back friom
the freight offices with the endorsement upon them "to be forwarded at the companies' convenience." Way freights were
totally declined, and soon after through freights offered at Buffalo
were excluded also, while fleets of vessels with western freights,
were received with the usual endorsement, " Received and paid
freights and charges," and promptly forwarded to destination.
Your committee quote from statements read in their hearing,
statements not denied by railroad representatives who were present at the time and also listened to them.
The New York Central Railroad received at Buffalo, consigned
to it direct, during the period from October 20thl to November
20th, during which time its doors were closed to citizens of this
State, as follows:
Alcohol,-                                        717 bbls.
Ashes,.-    558 casks.
Bacon,.-,   65,400 lbs.
Butter,                                      128,500 lbs.
Cotton,                                          420 bales.
Flour,                                       300,020 bbls.
Machinery,                                       462 pack's.
Peas,.                1,900 bush.
Seed,                                          2,518 bags.
Grindstones,                                     384 pieces.
Tallow,                                       76,200 lbs.
Whiskey,-................................ 2,695 bbls.
Beef,                   -                     26,564 bbls.
Broom corn,                                      967 bales.
Bones,                                           483 sacks.
Cheese,                                         1,969 boxes.
Eggs,  773 bbls.
Leather,, 727 rolls.
Oil cake,.                              461 sacks.
Pork,                                          1,355 bbls.
Glue,                                            332 bbls.
Hides,                                         11,000 pcs.
Wheat, -                                      53,094 bush.
Wool,                                            589 bales.
besides several thousand packages of sundries.
The tariffs of freight offered the citizen of this State during this
interregnum, are unimportant, since, whatever they might have
been, the citizen could not procure transportation for his prop



No. 47.]                      7
erty; but on the twentieth of November, flour was charged from
Buffalo to New York 70c. per bbl., and on the first of December,
advanced to 80c. per bbl., an advance of more than one hundred
per cent. upon ruling rates during the season of canal navigation,
according to the invariable practice of former years.
The contract rates at which the New York Central Railroad
transported this property so consigned to it direct, while closing
its doors to the citizen of this state, is of deep interest, because
another illustration of the uniform discriminating policy practiced by the railroads against the citizen of this state, while in
this case thi: road did not stop at its usual severe discriminations,
but went further in denying to the citizen all participation in the
public benefits it was intended to create, by denying him transportation for his property at any price, while devoting its total
facilities to strangers.
Beginning with October 20th, and running forward to November 20th, the following examples, which comprise highest as well
as lowest contract rates there appearing, viz:
Flour.-Joliet, Ill., to N. Y., at              $0 80 per bbl.
Divided, namely: Joliet, Ill., to Detroit, Mich.,
rail,                                $0 27
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,.          0 10
N. Y. Central and Hudson River R. R's, - 0 43    $0 80 C,
Flour.-Joliet, Ill., to Albany, at  -$0 75 per bbl.
Divided, viz: Joliet to Detroit, Michigan Central R. R.,                         $0 29
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,               0 12
New York Central R. R.,                 0 34    $0 75 "
Flour.-Joliet, Ill., to Boston, Mass.,         $0 90 per bbl.
Divided, viz., Joliet to Detroit, Michigan Central R. R.,                          $0 28
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,               0 10
N. Y. Central R. R., to Albany,         0 30
Western R. R., Albany to Boston,        0 22 = $0 90 "
Flour.-Joliet, Ill., to Pittsfield, Mass,, at ----— $1 00 per bbl.
Divided, viz: Joliet to Detroit, rail, - $0 26
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,               0 12
N. Y. Central R. R., Buffalo to Albany,... 0 34
Western R. R., Albany to Pittsfield,     0 28 = $1 00 "
Beef.-Joliet, Ill., to Boston, Mass., at ----- $0 44 per 100 lbs.
Divided, viz: Joliet to Detroit, Michigan
Central R. R.,                    $0 14
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,.       0 05
N. Y. Central R. R., to Albany,      0 15
Western R. R., Albany to Boston,... 0 10 = $0 44  "




$8                  [AssEMBLY
Beef.-Chicago, Ill., to New York, at-     $0 39 per 100 lbs.
Divided, viz: Chicago to Detroit, Michigan
Central R. R.,                   $0 13
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,.0 05
N. Y. C. and Hudson River R. R's,_..  0 21 =$0 39  "
Beef.-Cleveland, 0., to New York, at-      $0 32 per 100 lbs.
Divided, viz: Lake, Clevel'd to Buffalo,$0O 12
N. Y. Central and Hudson River R. R., 0 20 -- $0 32  "
Flour.-Chicago, Ill., to New York, at -$0 80 per bbl.
Divided, viz: Chicago to Detroit,_ --— $0 27
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,              0 10
N. Y. Central and Hudson River R. R's,.  0 43 — $0 80 "
Flour. —Detroit, Mich., to New York, at      $0 53 per bbl.
Divided, viz: Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,...$0 10
N. Y. Central and Hudson River R. R's,.. 0 43 -- $0 53 "
Beef.-Chicago, Ill., to Boston, Mass., at -....$0 44 per 100 Ibs.
Divided, viz: Chicago to Detroit, rail, $0 14
Lake, Detroit to Buffalo,,        0 05
N. Y. Central R. R., Buffalo to Albany, 0 15
Western R. R., Albany to Boston,.... - 0 10 — $0 44 "
We might multiply extracts from these bills of lading without
finding a solitary instance of higher rates, unless it may be to
some point short of Boston or New York, like the one herein cited
from Joliet to Pittsfield, Mass., which, although 107 miles shorter
than Boston, is charged 1Oc. per 100 lbs. on same commodity dearer
than to Boston; and it is observable that while the New York
Central railroad was transporting this property at' above rate,
viz: on the 23d day of November, the citizens of Buffalo (for a
month excluded entirely, and on the 20th of November again
graciously permitted to offer his property in sparing quantities,)
was charged 70c. per barrel on flour and 35c. per 100 on beef
and pork.
Mark the contrast:
Flour.-Detroit to New York,                   $0 53 per bbl.
Buffalo to New York,                         0 70   "
Beef.-Cleveland, O., to New York,         - $0 32 per 100 Ibs.
Buffalo to New York,                      0 35     4
Beef.-Chicago, Ill., to New York,         $0 39 per 100 lbs.
Buffalo to New York,                      0 35  "
Beef.-Joliet, Ill., to Boston,             $0 44 per 100 lbs.
Buffalo to Boston,                        0 45  "s
The rates from which the above parallels are given was upon
no stinted quantity-i-o isolated case, but for such quantities as
300,000 bbls. flour, 26,0'00 bbls. beef, 65,000 lbs. bacon, 76,000 lbs.,
tallow, &e.




No. 15.]'                    9
The question may suggest itself, did the Legislature chartering
the railroads of this State intend to create a vast forwarding line
between the seaboard and the western States, from which the citizen should be excluded at pleasure, donating to the corporators
eminent domain, a free gift, to enable them to construct their
track? What entitled this few to such distinguished consideration
over the many? Did the Legislature intend thus to create a power
over the people, or an opponent to itself? Has the State expended
its millions in canal construction, at the same time with lavish bounty of privileges created a power within its own boundary to destroy them? Has the State invited its citizens to navigate its canals and invest their means in that pursuit but to furnish victims to another portion of its citizens, and to this purpose
endowed them with extraordinary privileges, and even a portion
of its sovereignty? Can any other conclusions be drawn than
the affirmative of the foregoing propositions, if the practices of
the railroads of this State as herein related are to any degree
justifiable, and to be reconciled with the object and intent of the
Legislature in creating them?
There are several objections urged by the opponents of the
measures of relief prayed for by the petitioners, which your
committee cannot forbear to notice.
ARE RAILROAD CORPORATIONS UNDER LEGISLATIVE CONTROL?
The novel and dangerous doctrine was advanced by railroad
counsel before your committee, that railroad corporations are
not amenable to Legislative control in the management of their
business. The claim seems to rest upon the idea that these corporations having paid the appraised value of their right of way
to the citizen, the franchise ceases forever, and the corporation
possesses exclusive rights in the property, &c. In the opinion of
your committee the wish that this were true is parent to the assertion. Should no corrective remedy by Legislation be applied
to the present practices of railroads, practically the same may
become so.
We find by reference to the books, the following definitions of
the origin and the relations of these corporations to the people:
"The right to construct a railroad is a public franchise, granted to
the company for the public benefit. The company in accepting it
undertakes on its part to use it in such a manner as will best accomplish the object for which the Legislature desigred it. A departure from that design in its use would work a forfeiture of its




10                   [ASSEMBLY
franchise, and the Legislature, from the nature of the grant, would
have the right to interfere and direct the management and use of
the franchise in such a manner as would best subserve the public
interest."
The right of private corporations to take property is the right
of the State, the right of eminent domain, and can only be justified
and sustained on the ground that the lands are taken for public
use. Railroads are clearly constructed for the public benefit.
They are not mere private enterprises built and operated exclusively for the benefit of the stockholders.
The Legislature may, when any such railroad shall be opened
for use, from time to time alter or reduce the rate of freight or
fare or other profits upon such road, &c.
The Legislature may alter, amend or repeal, &c. Every such
corporation shall start and run their cars for the transportation
of passengers and property at regular times, to be fixed by public
notice, and shall furnish sufficient accommodations for the transportation of all such passengers and property as shall within reasonable time previous thereto be offered for transportation at the
place of starting, and the junction of other roads, and at usual
stopping places established for receiving and discharging way passengers and freight for that train, and shall take, transport and
discharge such passengers and property at, from and to such places, on the due payment of the freight for fare legally authorized
therefor, and shall be liable to the party aggrieved in any action
for damages for any neglect or refusal in the premises.
RAILROAD COMPANIES PRO RATE WITH EACH OTHER.
In the hearing before the committee it was held by railroad
counsel that it was impracticable to apply the principle of pro
rata in fixing rates of railroad freights in this State. The same
opinion was expressed by parties called in behalf of those corporations, and yet these same railroad officials acknowledge that
different roads pro rate with each other, and numerous instances
were brought to the notice of your committee, showing the practice to be very extensive. Your committee give a few illustrations:
May 24, New York Central R. R.
Carried tobacco from Louisville, Ky., to New York, at 20c. per.100 lbs.
Pro rated between the several lines over which it was carried, as
follows:




No. 47.]                     11
Louisville ferriage, and Jeffersonville R. R.,
108 miles, at-                        02 4-10c. per 100 lbs.
Bellefontaine and Cleveland, 0., 206 miles,
a t                -...............................   0 6   d o
Propeller, Lake Erie, from Cleveland, 180
miles, at                             05            do
N. Y. C. and Hudson River railroads, 442
miles, at...    06 96-100                       do
20c           do
November 23, New York Central R. R.
Beef, from Chicago to Boston, Mass., at 44c. per 100 lbs.
Chicago to Detroit, Michigan Central railroad,
283 miles, at                              14c. per 100 lbs.
Lake Erie, Detroit to Buffalo, 350 miles, at  05       do
New York Central railroad to Albany, 298 miles,
at-'                                       15       do
Albany to Boston, Western railroad, 156 miles,
at-.                                        10 do
44c.     do
November 23, New York Central railroad.
Beef, Chicago, Ill., to New York, at 39c. per 100 lbs.
Chicago to Detroit, Michigan Central railroad,
383 miles, at                              13c. per 100 lbs.
Lake Erie, Detroit to Buffalo, 350 miles at ---  05    do
New York Central and Hudson River railroads,
500 miles at                               21       do
39c.    do
May: New York Central railroad contracted with a St. Louis
(Mo.) operator in flour to convey 10,000 bbls. from St. Louis to
New York, at $0.62. per bbl. which was pro rated between the
several links in that transportation as follows:
St. Louis to Peoria, Ill., by river, at        $0 121 per bbl.
Peoria to Chicago, by railroad, at              0 10    do
Lake, Chicago to Buffalo, at. 0 15    do
New York Central and Hudson River R., at        0 25    do
$0 62o
To the canals the following rates would have been charged, viz:
St. Louis to Chicago, -                            38 and 40c.
Lake,.-25
63c.
Leaving to be paid gc per bbl. as a premium for the privilege
of carrying the same for nothing from Buffalo to New York I  1




12                   [ASSEMBLY
An instance was in May last published in a respectable Albany
paper, as follows: "A lot of flour' passed through this city destined for New York, Tuesday, which was delivered from the interior of Indiana to Albany, for twenty-nine cents per barrel, of
which the New York Central railroad's share was ten cents and a
fraction per barrel. The tow boat's share was two cents per bbl."
During the early part of September the following instances of
western contracts are compared with prices charged the people of
this State.
Wheat in bags, from Louisville, Kentucky, to New York, at $0.4T
per 100=28 2-10 per bush.
Tariff price from Louisville to Buffalo was 38lc. per 100 lbs.=
23 1-10c. per bush.
Leaving to New York Central railroad 8-c. per 100=5 1-10c.
per bush.
Also several thousand bbls. of flour contracted
at Davenport, Iowa, to New York, at-      90c. per bbl.
Tariff rate, Davenport to Chicago, at        44c.    "
Lake freight, Chicago to Buffalo, at         30c.    "
74c.
Leaving to New York Central and Hudson R., 16c. per bbl.=90'.
At same time charged citizens of Buffalo to
New York,                                 45c.
Also several thousand barrels of flour contracted at Quincy, Ill., to New York, at.. —  90c. per bbl.
Tariff rate, Quincy to Chicago, at.    45c.
Chicago to Buffalo, Lake, at                 30c.
75c.
Leaving New York Central and Hudson River, 15c. per bbl. —90
Tariff price Buffalo to N. Y;, at            45c.
Also several thousand barrels of flour contracted from St. Louis, Mo., to New York, at 90c.   "
Tariff rate, St. Louis to Chicago, at        40c.   "
Chicage to Buffalo, Lake, at-                30c.   "
70c.
Leaving for N. Y. Central and Hudson River..  20c. per bbl.=90.
Also several thousand barrels of flour, contracted to St. Louis, Mo., to Boston, Mass., at 95c.   "
Tariff rate St. Louis to Chicago, at         40c.
Chicago to Buffalo, Lake, at                 30c.   "
Western Railroad, Albany to Boston, at.    25c.   "
95c.   "
Leaving for New York Central Railroad,-..  00        " $0 95.




No. 47.]                      13
It is not likely the New York Central Railroad actually transported this St. Louis flour from  Buffalo to Albany, for $0.00,
(while actually costing it $47.29-100 per bbl., as appears by their
sworn reports, provided, to move a ton of flour, costs as much as
the average cost of moving tonnage), but that through its various
appliances it compels every road and lake line in the chain of
transportation to pro rate with it, inmany contract its agents see
fit to make, while to the canal shipper or Buffalo commission
merchant, full local rates are inflexibly adhered to.
We fild no instance in which western railroads pro rate or
divide the freight obtained, with the canals, but on the other
hand, insist upon full rates. The canals, consequently, in such
cases, would be compelled to carry such property for the excess
over local western tariffs, which in some cases would be less than
the State tolls charged upon it, and in others actually nothing at
all!!! Is it marvellous that under such a system the revenues of
this State from canal tolls diminish, and State taxes are piled up
mountain high?
WILL THE PRO RATA LAW DIVERT TRADE?
It is strenuously urged as an objection to interference with the
present practices of railroad corporations, that it would divert
trade to other routes north and south of this State. Your Committee believe the objection to be entirely fallacious, as a candid
examination of the question will demonstrate.
The bill under consideration of your committee does not prescribe
the rate of freight to any railroad.  It is framed upon the hypothesis that railroad managers themselves can best determine the rates
at which they can afford to transport property, and that sufficient
roads are now constructed to keep exorbitant rates in check by
competition, each working upon its merits. Were there but on6
road, it would be proper to prescribe a maximum rate, but the
bill only requires that whatever rates they may see fit to make,
shall be upon a scale of equality to all. It invites the commerce
-of other States to pass over our railroads upon the same terms
extended to our own citizens, but the objection would seem to
imply that the roads must be permitted to continue a system of
discrimination against the citizen to enable them to secure the
property of strangers. Further, it would seem to imply that to
secure the property of the stranger, non-remunerative rates must
be offered, and the deficiency taxed upon the property of the
citizen. If otherwise, there could be no reason (other than for




14                   [ASSEMBLY
extortion) to discriminate, since fair remuneration is all any corporation should be entitled to demand. Were there any principle
of good policy in permitting this practice, it would become the
imperative duty of the Legislature to provide a disinterested tribunal to which to refer complaints, that the self-interest of railroad directors had over-valued their services, to the unnecessary
hardship of the citizen. In other words, railroad directors are
not the proper tribunal before which to adjudicate questions between themselves and the people.
But as to the question of diversion to southern or northern
routes. It is premised by your Committee that in the long run,
trade, like water, must flow in natural channels. While diversion
for a time may be produced by artificial means, the effort contains
within itself the element of its own destruction, and the movement of property between the seaboard and the western States
must, in the end, fall into the cheapest route.
If New York does not possess that route, it is in vain to protract the struggle to retain it. If on the other hand, New York
does possess a plateau of ground extending from tide water to
the great inland seas, over which property may be transported at
less cost to the carrier than any other, all other routes become
proportionably inferior, and however long they may protract the
warfare the result in favor of New York is inevitable.
It may not be improper to allude to some of our advantages. The
Western States are drained upon the north by the great inland
seas to some part of which tends every canal and railroad penetrating these States.
These seas form the outlet to 3500 miles of immediate coast,
and bounded by the richest producing land upon the continent.
The cost of transportation upon these seas for eight, and frequently nine months of the year, is second only to ocean cheapness. The
State of New York is the isthmus between these seas and tide
water. She possesses also the metropolis of the nation to which
the surplus products of the whole country will finally concentrate,
whether transported over natural or unnatural routes, whether
lifted over the peaks of the Allegany and Cumberland mountains
upon the south, or along the borders of perpetual frosts upon the
north, or floated down the Mississippi and along the ocean coast.
Across this isthmus, connecting the inland seas with tide water,
we have a canal unparalleled upon the face of the earth for direct
lines'and freedom from lockages, with resources for supply'o
water equal to any emergency. Upon this canal, transportation is




No. 47.]                        15
third only to the ocean in cheapness; and upon the eve of a still
greater development in that direction, without exhausting re
sources, in the way of improving and cheapening.
The inland seas and tide water are also connected by a railroad
298 miles in length, of nearly air line and water level. Upqn the
south 2700 feet of higher grades must be overcome, together with
sharp curves. Upon the north a circuitous eleven hundred miles
of railroad located through a latitude of intensity of frost and
snows unknown to our favored isthmus.  This allusion to the
general merits of the routes between the western states and the
seaboard is deemed by your committee sufficient, and beg to
refer to Document No. 178, of the Legislature of 1859, for the full
and statistical proofs of the position assumed by your committee
in the above general terms, with the allusion only to the testimony
of those several railroad companies, as given in their annual
reports, as to the percentages of cost to themselves respectively,
in performing the traffic, viz:
1. New York Central, 53 per cent of gross freight earnings.
2. New York and,Erie, 58      do       do          do
3. Pennsylvania Central RR.,59 do       do          do
4. Baltimore and Ohio, RR., 66 do       do          do
Of the  Grand  Trunk we have no reports; but if quoted
instances are any indications of the character of its through
traffic, it would appear at present that it is paying a premium for
the privilege of transporting through property.
Before leaving the subject of the relative merits of the railroads within and out of this State to control the movement of
property between the western States and seaboard, the impression
remains with your committee that but three routes among all the
railroads named before your committee can upon their merits be
esteemed competitors, viz., New York Central, New York and
Erie, and the Pennsylvania Central. The relative cost of movement of these three lines, we find by reference to the reports of
these roads, respectively, tc be as follows, viz:
New York Central.    New York and Erie.   Pennsylvania Central.
Per ton per mile.     Per ton per mile.    Per ton per mile.
1854,.. — lc. 6m.    1853,....  lc. lm.    1854,....  2c. Im.
1855,....   1  5      1854,.... -  1  5    1855,7 -.  1  6
1856, _:.    1  4     1855,.- - 1  2      1856,...  1  6
1857,....  1  5     1856,      1  2       1857,.. 1  6
1858,...  1  3      1857,...   1  6      1858,...  1  4
1859,...  1  2       1858,...  1  5
6 yrs. av. ic. 4km.             lc. 3x2om.  5 yrs. av. lc. 61 m.




16                  [ASSEMBLY
By the foregoing it will appear that the greater cost of move.
ment of the Pennsylvania Central over either the New York Central or New York and Erie, more than counterbalances the few
miles difference in her favor as between New York and Chicago.
As for the rivalries between the cities of New York and Philadelphia for the western trade, the fact that of flour and other
western produce passing over that road, 50 per cent is destined
directly to New York, Boston and Providence, would seem a conclusive answer. Swe required more, we might quote the language
of Pennsylvania merchants while speaking of the present position
of Philadelphia compared with her position before the construction of the Pennsylvania Central railroad: " She has come to be
but mertly a large manufacturing town -on the route to JV'ew York."
The contest, therefore, seems to be not between our own and otheir
railroads, but between the combined railroad interests and the Erie,canal, and that every reduction of tolls upon the canal,-and every
additional inch of water has been followed by the New York Central
railroad in more than equal-reductions upon such traffic as legitimately belongs to the canals, because it may be carried by canals
profitably, but not by the railroads in competition, except at a
loss; and every witness introduced on the part of the railroads
upon the subject of the commerce of the country, has stated while
upon the stand that the ERIE CANAL REGULATED PRICES
TO THE WHIOLE RAILROAD SYSTEM, and the reductions in
tariffs occur at the period of its opening, and the advance at
the period cf its close. All concur in the statement that the
present winter tariffs of all the roads are restored to paying rates,
and the inference is inevitable —the Erie canal is closed by ice!!
It has been repeatedly testified to before your committee, that
the total construction, expenses of the railroad, machinery and
repairs, are charged to the local business of the road, while foreign business, or business arising beyond the terminus, is not
charged with any portion of these expenses, consequently foreign
business is regarded as that which costs comparatively nothing,
and the price for its transportation nearly nett gain. To your
committee this seems erroneous and unjust towards the legitimate
or local business, while this improper mode of apportionment of
expenses attendant upon freight traffic seems largely to have modified the statements made by the witnesses as to the relative cost of
through and way business. Your committee beg to adopt the
language of Chancellor Walworth in the case of Beekman vs. Saratoga & Seheneotady railroad:




No. 47.1                      17
"If a mode of conveyanceb has been discovered by which the
farmer can procure his produce to be transported to market at
half the expense which it would cost him to carry it with his own
wagon and horses, there is no reason why the public should not
enjoy the benefit of the discovery."
In speaking of these discoveries (railroads,) he says:  "It
must charge one uniform  price," &-c. "It is not sufficient that
he can procure his property to be transported as cheaply as
he previously could have done, but he is entitled to the BEST
USE of the discovery," &c.  Howr, therefore, has the citizen
the benefit of this newly discovered mode of transp,,rtation if
the expenses of construction and the bulk of those attendant and
necessary to its operation are charged upon him, while the facilities thus produced are extended to' a foreign business wvithout
being to the remuneration of anything beyond merely the operating
expenses attendant upon each specific movement of such property?
To do the business of the citizen for a fair compensation, without oppression and exorbitant charge, would seem to be the undertaking assumed by the railroads in accepting the franchise, and
should any discovery be made, or additional traffic arise which
may tend to cheapen the operations of these roads, such benefits
should not be the exclusive property of the railroad corporations
and be appropriated to their advantage only, but be equitably
divided with the citizen in cheapening the value of the services
to be performed for him. The obligations imposed upon railroads
to transport the property of the citizen under what circumstances
soever it may be offered, may be regarded as a portion of the outlay necessarily to be incurred in building railroads, since to refuse
to perform such service wvould amount to a misuse of privilege,
and work a forfeiture of the charter.  The performance, therefore, of such service becomes a necessary element in estimating the
cost at which these facilities can be extended to the general community. If this mode of estimating the cost at which the facilities of our railroads might with propriety be extended beyond
our domestic to a foreign traffic, may it not also be the proper
rule for estimating the services between different localities within
our own community? If so, the uniformity of rate predicated
upon aggregate distances and aggregate value of services prayed
for by the petitioners, and provided for in the bill, would be
clearly demonstrated.
Your committee therefore arrive at the conclusion that across
the State of New York lies the natural track for commerce be[Assembly, No. 47.]             2




18                   [ASSEMBLY
tween the east and the west, and-that it may be performed at
fairly compensating rates to the carrier without any fear of diversion, and the theory so pertinaciously urged and reiterated, that
these competing routes are built and will be run at whatever loss,
we think is a fallacy. Everything in nature is recuperative. The
mightiest lakes or oceans would be drained of the last drop of water
but for the return of their losses ini rains. A self-sustaining channel,
or one sustained by natural laws, would be perpetual, and more
or less navigated to all time, but an artificial channel requires
frequent and total reconstruction, and unless recuperative in
profits, in the end must come to disuse and decay. But the real
question for your committee's consideration, is the duty owed by
our corporations to the people of this State, for we believe the
prime motive in permitting their construction and endowing them
with privileges, was to promote the prosperity of the people of
this State, at the same time afford to these corporations such remuneration from the undertaking as they should be susceptible of
without detriment to the main objects of the Legislature in creating them.
THE TRUE POLICY OF RAILROADS.
We cannot perhaps better express this duty, both to the people
and the permanent good of these corporations, than by using the
very language of an author high in authority among railroad circles upon the other side of the Atlantic. We quote from " Scrivenor's Railways of the United Kingdom."  He says:
"It is gratifying to obser.ve that every year for nine years in
succession an increase of receipts are visible. This is a cheering
fact, giving promise to the long expectant shareholders that a
better time is dawning.... This should revive within him
faith and hope in the system he has founded, while it should rouse
and stimulate the executive bodies to renewed exertions to increase yet more these receipts by a fuller development of the
mighty resources of the railways over which they preside. But
sure I am this annual increase cannot be maintained by unscrupulous competition. Such proceedings will certainly diminish
the total traffic.
"The best policy for a company to pursue is to cease striving
after non natural traffic, and diligently to cultivate and improve
the natural trJffic arising in their own district. To this end, it is
of the first importance to secure a manager thoroughly competent
to his work, who shall discover the wants and requirements of the




No. 47.]                     19
provinces through which his line extends, making it his business to
develop, foster and encourage every species of traffic to be found
in that district. His highest aim should be to open up new springs
in his own locality, the fresh streams of which will enrich the
proprietors and cannot be taken from them.
The competition between company and company will not aid
the progress of the railways viewed in their comblined aspect.
The companies who seem so eager to enter upon strife with their
neighbors will rue the day they entered upon this warfare. An
unnatural traffic can never be made to pay; it is liable to ruinous
competiti, from the party working the cheaper course, and is
certain to receive ultimate defeat, for traffic like water will only
flow through natural channels, and can never be diverted from its
course except at ruinous sacrifice of money and labor.
"It is of infinite importance to us as a nation." he continues,
"to encourage the companies to develop their own traffic, and to
discourage their attempts at plundering each other, because the
first named policy adds to their general utility, whilst the latter
policy is suicidal in character with reference to themselves, and
destructive of progression in a national sense. And never can
the rail thoroughly prosper until the great majority of the comnmunity, those connected directly or indirectly with land-owners
along their lines, shall regard it as their legitimate road. A rail
without farms on it, is like a river without landing places, a
street without houses, a crane without chains or tackle, a steamboat without an engine, an engine without a boiler, a spinning
mill without cotton or flax. Only by the interests of the borderers on railways being united with those of the railway owners
can railroads prosper; and the largest proportion of their difficulties arises from the belief that their customers are a race of
people indefinitely squeezable in purse, while the customers regard the railway owners as a mere crew of extortioners.
"I wish from  my heart to see English farmers and English
railways prosper. It is the duty of the former to exert themselves,-it is the duty of the latter to encourage the public of all
classes to build houses, locate farms, erect factories, &c., &c.,
near the line; then shall the railways grow up into streets of a
value greater than the most sanguine imaginations have yet calculated on.
" It is a hopeful practice," continues this writer, " that railways
can be adapted to the wants, and draw tributes from the multitude, without'exciting their indignation!"




20                   [ASSEMBLY
Such, in the opiuion of your committee, is an outline of correct
railway management, and if adopted by the roads of this State in
hearty earnest, would have little or no occasion to appeal to
legislation for corrective remaedy.
ASPECTS AND MOVEMENTS IN OTHER STATES.
In our sister State, Pennsylvania, the people are suffering similar discriminations aind exactions imposed by her leading railroad
corporation, the Pa. Central; and her citizens, like our own, are
indicating, in unmistakable terms, their determination to redress
these wrongs. The history of that State in regard to internal
improvements, is replete with instruction and warning to our citizens. At an early day she constructed her main line of canal,
connecting Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and thence inviting the
trade of' the vast region bordering upon the Ohio river. The cost
of this important public work was about $20,000,000.
Its salutary effects in developing the resources and promoting
the general prosperity of that commonwealth, are beyond all computation.
It yielded also very handsome returns for the investment in
the revenue which it contributed to the treasury of the State.
For five years, ending with 1856, inclusive, the receipts from that
source are estimated to have averaged about $1,500,000 per year.
M5eanwhile, the Pennsylvania Central railroad, authorized in 1846,
had been constructed, holding the same relation to the main line
of canal in that State, which the New York Central railroad bears
to the Erie canal.  That powerful corporation, like its twin
monopoly of the Empire State, cast a covetous eye upon the business of the canal by its side. In that State, as here, men were
found ready to decry canal transportation as belonging to a past
age, and destined to be superseded by the speedier and more
advantageous railroad movement. In an evil hour for Pennsylvania, her Legislature, in 1857, was seduced into passing a law
under which her main line of canal, costing $20,000,000, and yielding a revenue.averaging $1,500,000 per year, passed from the ownership of the Commonwealth, into the hands of its rival, the Pa.
Central railroad, for the beggarly pittance of $7,500,000! In our
State, unfair and suicidal competition, combined with artful and
systematic efforts to depreciate the intrinsic value of our canals,
have not been crowned with the same success as in Pennsylvania;
for here, most fortunately, our canals are still the property of the
people. Pennsylvania well may, and does envy us the possession
of what she has lost-the control of the canals of the State. Her




No. 47.]                      21
citizens now loudly affirm that in the sale of her public works
" the interests of all concerned were sacrificed, and that instead of
the wholesome competition intended to be reserved, the citizens of
that State are left to the tender mercies of a corporation which
may and does oppress them."  The manner in which the Pennsylvania Central railroad has requited the privileges granted it, is
strikingly exhibited in a report of the Pittsburgh Board of Trade,
adopted in September, 1858. Your committee, quote from it a
few only of the illustrations of the system of railroad discriminations and exactions levied upon the people of that State by its
overshadowing railroad power.
"The distance from Cincinnati to New York, via. Pennsylvania
Central, Ft. Wayne, and C. C. & Cin. roads, is 826 miles. Distance from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, 352 miles.
"' The charge between the two latter places, if proportional to
that between Cincinnati and New York, would be 27; 69-100 cents
per 100 lbs., or $5.53 8-10 per ton. The actual charge from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, per card rates, on fourth class goods, is
50 cents per 100 lbs., or $10 per ton.
"A wholesale grocer in this city was charged by the railroad
the same freight on a large lot of sugar as was paid by a Cincinnati house at the same time. He succeeded in getting a reclamation, by which he paid two-thirds as much as the Cincinnati
house, though his goods were only carried half the distance.
"A merchant in a town on the Mississippi river was charged
the same price for freight on bales of brown muslins, bought in
this city, as he paid on the same goods from New York, via Pittsburgh.
"The full extent of discrimination against us by private contracts, we have no means of ascertaining, but occasional accidental developments, such as these, render it probable that it is very
extensive.
" The farmer whose railroad station is Greensburg, Pa., pays 40
cents per 100 lbs., or 24 cents per bushel, for carrying his wheat
329 miles.
"The farmer whose station is Cincinnati, Ohio, pays only 58
cents per 100 lbs., or 34 cents per bushel, to carry his wheat 734
miles.
"The merchant at Johnstown or Blairsville, pays the same freight
on his goods as if he resided in Pittsburgh.
"' The manufacturer of axes in Lewistown, pays the same freight




22                   [ASSEMBLY
to Pittsburgh, from that place, 173 miles west of Philadelphia, as
his competitors in the latter city.
1" A maker of an article of hardware in Shrewsbury, York
county, shipped goods to Pittsburgh, by way of Harrisburgh and
the Pennsylvania railroad, at 77 cents per 100 lbs., at the same
time by way of Baltimore, Harrisburgh and Pennsylvania railroad at 45 cents."
These practices bear their appropriate fruit in Pennsylvania as
in our own State. In depicting the deplorable results which have
fallen upon their citizens, the same report vividly daguerreotypes
scenes, the counterpart of which are but too familiar within our
own borders. It says:
" These discriminations operate injuriously not only to the city
of Pittsburgh, but also against every station along the line of the
Pennsylvania railroad; every merchant of Pennsylvania whose
goods move on its cars; every farmer or manufacturer, the product of whose industry is borne upon it to an eastern or western
market. *  *  *  *
" Pittsburgh houses, engaged in the wholesale dry goods or grocery and other branches of business, have been compelled, by the
force of these discriminations, to change their location to western,
and in some cases eastern cities.   *   * *
" The permanent interests of the State of Pennsylvania, and
especially her chief cities, are being sacrificed to the aggrandizement of the managers of the Pennsylvania railroad, and the apparent present advantage of the stockholders. *  *  * *  *
The Pennsylvania railroad becomes what the Legislature never
meant it to be, an oppressor of the citizens-wronging the home
shipper, by making him pay double as much as the foreign, and
the whole of a tax which ought to be paid out of the gross profits
of the Company's business.
" To prove that the discriminations charged, in their baleful
effects were not imaginary, we refer.... to the decaying
engine shops, the silent and deserted boat yards, the idle steamers and ruined millers, the produce business banished to western
points, the shipping business monopolized by a corporation, and
merchants and manufacturers of all kinds leaving Pennsylvania
for other States."
"As when in times past, the wise Legislature of Pennsylvania
made each of her two principal cities, the terminus of her great
public works, many flocked to avail themselves of the advantageso now enterprising people hurry off to establish themselves in
the distant towns to which, by the selfish policy of an ungrateful
corporation, these advantages have been transferred."
Your committee forbear multiplying these extracts. Not only




No. 47.]                      23
are the people of Pennsylvania suffering with us from a kindred
cause, but they are demanding of their representatives the application of the same remedy asked by our constituents at the hands
of this Legislature. The following is a summary of what Pennsylvania asks:
SEC. 1. All railroad companies in the State of Pennsylvania
shall so regulate their tolls and charges for motive power and
transportation, that the said charges shall at no time be greater
per passenger, or per ton, per mile, on passengers or freight,
destined to or from  any port or place'in this Commonwealth,
either by railroad or canal, than may be charged per passenger or
per ton, per mile, for the same description of goods or merchandize transported over an equal distance on said road, coming from,
or destined to, any port or place in any other State.
SEC. 2. The rate of charge per,ton, per mile, on pig iron, blooms,
ore, coal, lumber, fire-brick, and all other articles, the product of
this State, not commonly carried to or from points in other States,
shall at no time bear a higher relative proportion of charge to
other goods or freight than they now'bear, according to the tariff
of the Pennsylvania railroad company.
The subject was before the Legislature of that State at the last
session, and a bill embracing the above provisions passed the
Senate but remained unacted upon in the Assembly. Your committee are advised that the reform will be passed upon by the
Legislature of that State at its present session, and the action of
this body in granting the relief so loudly demanded by our constituents will not only redress our own wrongs, but will strengthen
the hands of those who, in our sister State, are endeavoring there
to inaugurate a similar reform, and emancipate them from their
thraldom under railroad corporations.
In Ohio, as your committee are advised, a bill has been recently
introduced into her legislature, and is before the committee on
finance, with strong expectations of a report in favor of the Pro
Rata reform. A leading journal of that state of a recent date,
says, "that all the evils complained of in New York are suffered
in Ohio to the fullest extent."
In Maryland, also, the question of railroad discrimination is
before her legislature. The House of Delegates, in response to
numerous petitions, recently passed the following order:
" Ordered, That the Presidents of the North Central and the
Baltimore and Ohio railroads be requested to inform the House of
Delegates whether their companies have not discriminated against
the city of Baltimore in their rates of freight."
The inquiry thus set on foot will not be allowed to rest until
the evils complained of are adequately redressed.
In this reform New York proudly leads the way. When she
utters her potential voice, the battles of the railroad kings on our
western prairies will cease, for Pennsylvania, Ohio and Maryland
will join her in declaring that they shall no longer replenish their
mutual losses by foraging upon the citizens of their' rasp*tivo
states.




24, [ASSEMBLY
The conclusions of your committee may be summarily stated in
the following propositions.
1. The law calls railroad corporations into being on the ground
that their construction and use will promote the public good. To
this public good or general welfare the pecuniary interests of the
stockholders must be secondary.
2. This public good involves the right of the citizen to the BEST
USE of the railroad.
3. Whenever any railroad corporation, in its management, makes
the presumed or even real interest of the stockholder paramount
to the public good, or when it grants its use to transport the property of the citizen of other States in priority or on better terms
than it concedes to our citizens, there is an abuse of its franchise
which demands either a forfeiture or an ample remedy.
4. It is demonstrated that railroad corporations in this State
are systematically managed in a way which makes the public good
subservient to the caprice or supposed interest of their controlling
officers, and renders nugatory the right of our citizens to the best
use of those roads.
The bill submitted to your committee, and reported by them
favorably to the Assembly, rests upon the following considerations:
1. It rests upon a principle in the law of trade, that service
rendered and compensation paid, shall be pro rata, or in proportion.
2. It rests upon the belief that the regulations and restrictions
it imposes will be of incalculable benefit to the citizens of our
State-restoring to them the advantages promised them in the
construction of railroads, and which have been audaciously
wrested from them to be conferred largely upon strangers, to
whom they are under no obligations.
3. It rests also upon the opinion that under it railroads instead
of being ruined or even crippled, in any legitimate use of their
franchise, will receive uniform and remunerative returns for the
transportation of fireight, and consequently larger yields of dividends to their stockholders.
4. It relies upon the Erie canal, acknowledged by railroad competitors to be the great regulator, to prevent any diversion of
trade from the city of New York, or the State at large.
5. It contemplates compelling railroads to recognize the great
principle they have so generally and so grievously departed from,
viz., that the public good was the par amount consideration which
gave them being, and that to the promotion of the public welfare,
the supposed interest of the stockholders is, and of right ought
to be, secondary or subservient.
The undersigned agreeing in these facts, arguments, and conclusions, unite in reporting the bill referred to the committee, with
sundry amendments, to the Assembly, and respectfully ask its
concurrence in the same. Signed.
T. T. FLAGLER,                   HIRAM  SMITH, 2d.
JEREMIAH EMERICK,                J. FULTON,
E... MOULTON.




STATE OF NEW YORK.
No. 60.IN ASSEMBLY, FEB 8, 1860S
REPORT
Of the Minorily of the Select Committee on the Pro-rata
Freight Bill.
Mr. VARIAN, in behalf of the minority, submitted the following:
REPORT:
That they have given a patient and candid consideration to the subject
of a pro rata freight bill, embraced in the numerous petitions prsented to
the Legislature at its present session, and have endeavored, by all the light
to be derived from so much investigation as the majority of the committee
have permitted, to arrive at a safe and satisfactory result. No measure for
years past, proposed for legislative action, involves such vital interests to
the integrity of public faith, the safety and remunerative value of private
property, the growth and prosperity of our commerce, and especially in
the city of New York, as this: and we may well pause at the threshold
and inquire what evils are complained of, and what wrongs are sought to
be redressed by legislation, and whether this is the appropriate remedy for
the oscilliations of trade, and the inequalities incident to the great and
growing commerce which the empires rising west and northwest of us, are
now pouring through our thoroughfares into the seaboard city of New
York.
THE PETITIONS.
The peculiar character of the petitions read before us, is the subject of
remark; many of them highly inflammatory and unfair on their face, comparing the entire receipts of the N. Y. Central R. R. for a year, with the'
tolls received, during the same period, by the canals (omitting entirely the
amount of freight received by forwarders,) and on this statement, predicating the great gains of this company, designating it as a "grinding
monopoly" over the rival enterprise of the "people," and warning us of
grevious taxation to come, unless the railroads are at once compelled to
carry way freight at lower rates, while with singular inconsistency the
[Senate, No. 60.]             1




2                          [ASSEMBLY
same petitions aver that they are now transporting through freight for less
than they can afford!  One of these petitions is headed as follows:
TAX PAYERS!
Look at these figures and calculate upon the COSTS and RECEIPTS of our
State Canals and Railroads.  WITNESS, that while our citizens are
laboring under an annually, increasing canal debt, a powerful Railroad
monopoly has grown up, at one time dividing among its stockholders profits to the enormous amount of $8,894,500-a sum greater than the original
cost of the ERIE CANAL, and has ever sihnce paid FAT dividends at the
expense of our canal revenue.
The cost of our State Canals, as per report of 1858, was $54,250,655.
The cost of the New York CentraZ Railroad when consolidated, and State
tolls taken from her freight (in 1853) was $24,154,860. The annual gross
receipts of these two institutions, for the past seven years, have been as
follows:Compare the Railroad freight column with the Canal business: that
explains the whole matter.
Erie and Cham-       New York Central Railroad.
plain canals. —.-_
Total.   Passengers.  Freight. Oth. sources. Total.
1853,.....................  $2,928,663 $2,829,609 $1,835,572 $122,279 $4,787,458
1854.......................  2,754,376  3,151,519  2,479,821  287,000  5,918,340
1855.......................  2,436,519  3,242,229  3,187,603  131,749  6,561,581
1856,.......................  2,498,628   3,207,378  4,328,041  171,929  7,707,348
1857,....................... 2,310,536  3,147,637  4,559,276  320,337  8,027,250
1858,...................1....1,882,014  2,532,647  3,700,270  295,496  6,528,413
1859, (estimated,).........  1,480,000  2,566,370  3,337,270  279,331  6,200,971
$16,290,376     0[1$23,427,853 Gz    $45,731,361
Shall we continue to be taxed for the support of Railroad monoplies?
If not, sign this petition, and forward to the member from your district.
It is apparent, therefore, that while these petitions emanate from the
same source, they combine the names of persons actuated by divers, and
dissimilar views, and whose objects in urging legislation are not alike, and
that some, if not all, of them are in error.
The MODE OF PROCEDURE adopted by the majority of the committee,
was not as satisfactory as could have been wished. Assuming all the divers
allegations strewn through the petitions to be prima facie true, until
disproved by the railroad companies, thereby exalting them into evidence,
and requiring no proof of the truth of the facts alleged.
Indeed, the most singular feature of these investigations is, that although
the companies urged and insisted that witnesses should be examined under
oath, it was declined by the committee, and a report has been made of
certain allegations, as facts, not only against the statements of many witnesses, but without one particle of proof to support them.
The Legislature will therefore attach little weight to petitions so contradictory on their face, and so unsupported by proof, and will safely look
beyond them for any reliable facts on which to act in the premises.
The subject of a pro rata freight bill, as applicable to railroads, is not
entirely new in this State, (although no other State or government has
adopted any such policy,) it was urged upon the last Legislature, but was




No. 60.1                           3
wisely left to regulate itself, within the limits of existing statutes, which
contain as many and as stringent regulations as are consistent with the
public interest, on the one hand, and the safety and protection of private
property and enterprise on the other.
It has been the cherished purpose of the State for years to discontinue
special legislation, and adopt such general statutes, as might enable individuals to unite their capital, and transact their business in a corporate
capacity, free from the inconvenience of partnership, and at their own
election to create a bank, or cnstruct a railroad, or pursue mechanical or
manufacturing enterprises, it is a privilege common to all citizens alike,
and when accepted, involves equitably and fairly only such future legislative interference with the legitimate affairs of such corporation as the general charter reserved, or pressing public exigencies call for, and then only
in a manner infringing no rights, venturing upon no experiment, jeapordizing no interest or property invested on the faith of the State, and the ordinary course of business.
Whether existing railroads act under special or general charter, they
are to be regarded in view of these principles, and are not to be sacrificed
by the reserved power " to alter or amend," exercised in an arbitrary way,
and without reasons of the most pressing urgency.
The third section of the consolidation act of 1853, subjects the last
named road to the provisions of the general railroad act of 1850, in all
important particulars.
A grave constitutional question meets us here: it is whether the State
has the power to dictate the prices of passing the commerce of other states
through our borders to market!  If it may do this, then the exclusive
power conferred upon Congress to regulate commerce with foreign nations
and among the several states is a nullity. Indeed this interference with the
commerce of one State passing through another by land or water, by such
State, was the very thing the Congress designed to prevent. It is mere
evasion to say that the State does not fix a price, but only requires the
company to do it under certain pains and penalties. What a company or
a person does under State dictation, is done by the State itself, otherwise
this entire limitation of State power, in its action upon commerce, might
be nullified by deputing it to others; the warrant of the individual is the
authority of the State.  How can this be effective without direct interference with commerce " among the several states?"
While the power may thus be doubted and denied, the impolicy of its
exercise is beyond all question as it relates to the commerce of other
states. If the State becomes a " common carrier " by the ownership of a
canal or railway, she may regulate her charges as such carrier, but not by
the exercise of State sovereignty or general legislation.
The railway interest of this State has become one of its most important
elements of prosperity. It has invested capital to the extent of about 150
millions of dollars. The amount of its investment is one-tenth the value
of the entire taxable property of the State, and seven times as great as the
entire cost of the Erie canal up to this date.




4                      [ASSEMBLr
This large sum paying its proportion of our taxes has the right to look
to the State for its safety, for on the pledge of State faith it has been
advanced and invested in railways. Hundreds and thousands rely upon
the regular income of these investments in stock or bonds for their daily
support. To destroy or impair this would be ruinous and unjust; to cripple
the usefulness or injure the income of our railways would subject us to the
reproach of unfair dealing with important interests, which State policy and
State faith require us to protect. The examination of witnesses before the
committee elicited the following facts:
1. That the railways of New York, in the prosecution of their freight
business, run two separate trains of cars. One confined to the way business, taking on and delivering freight along their respective lines; and the
other confined to their through business, receiving merchandize from other
connecting roads and lines, and transporting it to its destination on other
roads, or at the seaboard. That this way and through business are entirely distinct, employing each its separate agencies, and being conducted
on different principles, the one but slightly dependent on, or influencing
the other.
2. That different rates or prices for transportation were charged on way
freight from those charged on through freight: a large part of the petitioners' showing being made to substantiate this difference in price.
3. That the rates of winter transportation are increased over those
demanded in the summer.
The Minority refer to the published statements made before the committee, herewith submitted, in the entire confidence, that they will show
that the above constitute the only charges made out in this investigation,
and this honorable body will look in vain for any management on the part
of these companies, not referable to the foregoing heads.
Let us see whether these corporations infringe any law, or violate any
duty, in conducting their freighting department on the principles above
stated.
1. It was proved before the committee, that from the nature of the carrying trade, this distinction between through and way business was inevitable; that the one related only to the termini, and the other affected every
station: that the one passed on the road in bulk, without delay, and
without handling, and in large quantities of about 300 tons, while the
other, employing nearly the entire force of the road, was carried in small
quantities for short distances; nor was it proved that in a single instance
the way freight was ever delayed a moment in consequence of any inte-rference by freight carried through the whole line.
What authority or reason the Legislature has for interfering with this
course of business, applicable alike to all railways in the United States, it
is difficult to see. The same reason would compel the State to dictate to
all persons their course of dealing, and their method of doing business,a tyranny to which no private individual would for a moment submit.
2. That different prices were demanded for carrying way freight, or




No. 60.]                         5
freight from station to station along the line, from those at which the
roads contracted through freight; and upon this it is insisted, by the
majority of the committee, that an "u njzusr discrimiznation" is made
" against " the citizens of our own, and in favor of the citizens of other
States, and that only the same rate per ton per mile should be demanded
on all freight, without regard to where it comes from, at what point it is
delivered, or at what cost it is moved.
The first point insisted on, is on its face specious and plausible; yet on
inspection will be found to be utterly unsound. It assumes the very point in
dispute, viz: that the discrimination or difference in price is "unjust," and
is "against" the citizens of our own State.
The question whether the roads are "unjust" in the prices they demand
of our citizens, depends not upon what they do for others, but whether the
prices demanded of them are exhorbitant.
On the subject of the cost to the companies of transporting way as compared with through freight, Mr. Minot, of the New York and Erie railroad,
stated as follows:
Q. I come now to the subject of the comparative cost of through and
way freights. What, in your judgment, after all your opportunities for
observation, is the difference in the cost of transporting through freights
and way freight?
A. It would be different on different parts of the road; on some parts
of the road the cost would not be 25 per cent more; on others, it would
be 50 per cent, and on some portions of the road, say the Delaware division, it would be double.
Q. With reference to the whole of the bousiness you have done, what is
the difference between the through business and the way business-what
per cent?
A. That is susceptible of an accurate answer, which I am not able to
give without an examination of the figures.
Q. I mean an approximate amount, not the actual?
A. I should think that the cost of the way freight was 50 per cent
greater than the through; but there are a great many elements that enter
into the calculation, and it might vary somewhat; I do not propose that
the committee should understand me as saying that it would cost exactly
so much more or so much less, but that the tendency is larger because of
these elements, which they can see as well as we.
Q. State those elements of increased cost on way freight, chargeable to
it, and not chargeable:to through freight?
A. The elements are the diminished work done by the motive power,
the additional cost of labor, the additional cost of fuel, the additional cost
of station expenses, additional track expenses, track repairs, station-houses,
side-tracks and their maintenance, and the interest on the additional capital
required to do it; these are some of the main items.
Q. Can you give an approximate estimate or statement of what way
stations and fixtures have cost on that road, which would not be needed if




6                       [ASSEMBLY
you did a through business only; I speak of an investment, not of current
expenses?
A. I understand your question to be this: How much more has been
expended on the road to enable it to give facilities for doing a way business than would have been expended if the object had been to do a through
business only?
Q. Yes, sir, as an investment?
A. I should think from six to eight millions of dollars.
Q. Then the interest on the capital would be chargeable as current expenses on that account, in addition to other items you have mentioned,
wages, &c.?
A. Yes sir.
Mr. Brooks, President of the Michigan Central railroad, gave the following testimony:
Q. As a manager of a road I ask you this question: what is the difference in the cost of railroad transportation of through freight as compared
with way freight?
A. Almost every road would present a somewhat new case. But there
is no doubt that upon all roads it costs a good deal more to transport the
local than the through freight. On some roads the difference in the two
classes would be very much greater than on the others. There are so many
causes that affect it more in some cases and less than in others, one can
hardly fix a stated per cent difference. The cars in the one case do not run
as full as in the other, nor do the trains take as many cars. The maximum
number of cars of a full train is about thirty. The local train takes one
or two on and picks others up on the route; as it picks up and drops cars
on the route, the average will differ from station to station. I have generally supposed that more money could be made at two cents per mile per
ton on long business, than at three cents on local. That must make a difference of fifty per cent. Some roads will make that figure smaller. There
are cases where it might be larger. There is entering into that question a
phase that is not always thought of. New business is generally long business. New business can be done somewhat cheaper than old business. If
you will allow me to go into an explanation, I will try to make myself understood in that regard. The fixed business, for which the road is built,
has fairly charged upon it the whole expense of the operation of the road.
The fixed business, which may be regarded as legitimately belonging to the
line, is that which the public depends upon it to perform, and for which it
was built. There are certain classes of expenses connected with the management, not incidental to the increase of business; as, if you please, the
decay of the perishable materials connected with its structure. The roadway, the ties, the care of its bridges, its culverts, its drainage, ditches, the
sliding of its banks, the wooden material connected with its rolling stock.
The decay of that goes on as much in a smaller as in a larger business.
There is a certain class of agencies connected with it, not influenced by
he greater or less quantity of business. All the principal agents at the




No. 60.]                          7
extremities of the line, these are not influenced in any appreciable degree
by new business brought upon the line. I have generally supposed that
perhaps nearly one-third of the expenses of railway management was not
increased by the increase of business. Therefore, I would say that if the
total cost of working the road or business was a cent a ton per mile, (I
state that not as representing the cost, but as a mere example,) then new
business could be done for two-thirds of a cent, and the other trade would
not be affected by increased tonnage. It will follow from that that if new
business is taken at the exact cost of the current business of the line, there
is a profit incident to that business, while, if you take the whole business
at that cost, your liie is worthless. In my own judgment I have always
regarded that theory, and have sought new business as the exigency of trade
seemed to make it expedient. If we had current trade one way and empty
cars the other, we would take freight at a very low rate to fill up the empty
cars. There are seasons of the year when our rolling stock is unemployed,
that we would enter it upon any business -t these low rates to make some:
thing out of it. The new business thus sought, not being legitimate business belonging to the road, and for which the road was not constructed, has
been almost always taken at rates which are near the cost of movement.
It is that element which I have endeavored to describe, which generally
rendered it desirable for long lines to seek distant business.
This same distinction between the cost of through and local freights
was shown to exist in all modes of transportation, whether by stage, canal,
railway, rivers, lakes or ocean craft, as will be seen by the following statements of testimony:
Mr. Powers, of the Hudson and Boston railroad, who, for many years,
was engaged in forwarding on the river, and is now interested in river
transportation, states that " it is and has been the invariable custom to
charge a way business between Albany to New York, fully up to the
through rates;" that' "the rates between Albany and Catskill, or any
place between, on a barrel of flour, had invariably been 12- cents, while
from Albany to New York it was sometimes 5 or 6 cents."
Mr. Drullard, general freight agent of the New York Central road, who,was, previously to his connection with the road, engaged for many years in
canal forwarding, states that the practice has always been to charge higher
rates, in proportion to distance, on way freight, than on through freight,
and he gives the following instances: "Discriminations against New York
producers, and in favor of western producers," which occurred during the
past season.
May, 1859. New York to Buffalo, 514 miles, 10 cents per 100 lbs.
New York to Rochester, 415 miles, 12 cents per 100 lbs. At pro rata, it
should have been 8 4-100 cents per 100 lbs., or one-third less than was
charged to Buffalo.
June, 1859. New York to Lockport, 483 miles, 16 cents per 100 lbs.
New York to Cleveland, 700 miles, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro-rata to




8                      [ASSEMBLY
Lockport would be 7 87-100 per 100 lbs., or less than half the amount
charged.
June, 1859. New York to Lockport, 16 cents per 100 lbs., 483 miles.
Brockport to Medina, 10 cents per 100 lbs. At pro rata, the rate between
Brockport and Medina would be nine mills, or less than one-tenth that was
charged.
July, 1859. New York to Syracuse, 8 cents per 100 lbs., 366 miles.
Syracuse to Manlius, 10 miles, 8 cents per 100 lbs. At pro rata, the rate
between Syracuse and Manlius would have been three mills per 100 lbs.,
instead of 8 cents.
July, 1859. Albany to Syracuse, 166 miles, 12 cents per 100 lbs. New
York to Syracuse, 316 miles, 8 cents per 100 lbs. At pro rata, between
Albany and Syracuse, would be 4 1-5 cents, or about one-third the amount
charged.
July, 1859. Albany to Rochester, 269 miles, 14 cents per 100 lbs.
New York to Rochester, 419 miles, 10 cents per 100 lbs. At pro rata,
from Albany to Rochester, would be 6 42-100 per 100 lbs.
July, 1859. Albany to Rome, 125 miles, 10 cents per 100 lbs. New
York to Syracuse, 316 miles, 8 cents per 100 lbs. At pro rata, from
Albany to Rome, it should have been 3 27-100 cents per 100 lbs.
July, 1859. Albany to Utica, 100 miles, 10 cents per 100 lbs. New
York to Detroit, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro rata would be, from Albany
to Utica, 1 96-100 cents per 100 lbs., or less than one-quarter the price
charged.
August, 1859. Albany to Amsterdam, 47 miles, 10 cents per 100 lbs.
New York to Cleveland, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro rata from Albany
to Amsterdam, would have been 8 mills per 100 lbs.
August, 1859. New York to Brockport, 17 cents per 100 lbs. New
York to Sandusky, more than double the distance, 12 cents per 100 lbs.
August, 1859. New York to Chicago, 1,400 miles, 18 cents per 100
lbs. New York to Rochester, 415 miles, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro
rata would have been, from New York to Rochester, 5 14-100 cents per
100 lbs.
August, 1859. New York to Detroit, via Oswego, 14 cents per 100
lbs. Syracuse to Canastota, 20 miles, 10 cents per 100 lbs. A pro rata,
from Syracuse to Canastota, would have been 4, mills, or less than half a
cent per 100 lbs.
September 1, 1859. On the day the Canal Convention was held in
Rochester, the freight on flour was 35 cents per barrel, by canal, both
from Buffalo and Rochester to New York, one 514 miles, and the other
415 miles. At pro rata rate, it should have been only 29 64-100 cents per
barrel from Rochester. Difference against Rochester millers, nearly 6
cents per barrel.
October 21, 1859. Buffalo to New York, 50 cents per barrel for flour.
New York to Cleveland, 12 cents per 100 lbs. A pro rata on flour, from




No..i0.]                          9
Buffalo to New York, would be 19 cents per barrel, or considerable less
than one-half charged.
In conclusion, Mr. Drullard says: These cases have all occurred within
the present year, and they might be multiplied to fill up as many books as
have been published by the Clinton League. They are of every day
occurrence, and show quite as glaring a difference as can be found on any
of the railroads of the State. They show one prominent feature in the
carrying trade-that short distances pay higher rates than long ones, by
the same mode of transit.
Mr. Spaulding, of New York, for twenty-five years a forwarder, confirms
the statement of the existence of the difference in the rates between through
and way freight on all modes of transportation.
These statements, made by gentlemen of long and large experience in
the cost of railway transportation, fortified by the reasons anl uncontradicted by a single witness, are to be taken as true, and as establishing the
fact beyond question, that the cost of carrying way freight bears no comparison with and is not affected by the cost of freight carried through the entire line, and the only question to be considered is whether the freights
from any given point on the line are too high or more than renmunerative
to the company! Unless this can be shown, and no attempt was made to
show it before the committee, the complaint of the petitioners, that they
do not get " the best use of the road, and that unjust discriminations are
made," and other vague and general charges of like character, are unjust
to the railroad companies, unless we adopt the principle which runs through
most of the petitions, that private property invested in railways, becomes
the prey of personal cupidity and public plunder, and may be confiscated
whenever local interests or popular opinion becomes corrupt enough to demand it.
Local Tariffs on different Railroads.
But in respect to the local rates and their alleged exorbitancy on the
New York roads, the point was completely met and contradicted by the
testimony of witnesses who appeared before your committee. An examination of the local tariffs by Mr. Spaulding, of fourteen of the principal
freighting lines, disclosed the fact that while only one of the number was
as low as the local rates on the New York Central railroad, the others
were from 25 to 50 per cent higher.
Mr. Hubbie, president of the Cleveland and Columbus railroad, testified
that he had examined the local tariffs of eighteen railroads; and on four of
them only were the rates as low as on the New York Central. Mr. Drullard also gave similar testimony.
These tariffs on way freight are not uniform, and from the nature of the
case, cannot be. Take as a specimen, the article of milk, carried on the
Hudson river railroad. It was stated by Mr. Briggs, the freight agent of
the Hudson river railroad at East Albany, that a train was run for the
special purpose, and the same price per can of ten gallons was charged all
[Assembly, No. 60 1              2




10                      [AsSEBLY
along the line.  Without explanation, this might have seemed unequitable,
but when it was stated that a train had to be started from East Albany,
run with high speed, stopping at every station, and that the cost of handling was the same everywhere, and that the return cars brought up the
empty cans and little or no freight, it was evident that the cost on the
shorter routes did no more than pay, and that if they were advanced in
proportion to the distance carried, it would exclude from market all above
a point forty or fifty miles from New York. These same reasons were
shown to be applicable to most of the way freight. The majority of the
committee, in their reported bill, have excepted milk and some other articles, thus admitting the force of the principle, which is as applicable to
all other articles as those excepted.
The allegation that these local freights were compelled to await the convenience of through merchandize, repeated again and again in the petitions,
and reiterated in the same language by the majority of the committee in
their report, was not sustained by proof, on the statement of any one having any knowledge of the fact, and the subscriber is therefore compelled to
consider the charge as entirely groundless. Indeed, it is hardly possible,
that anything of the kind could occur, except in rare instances, at the
termini of the road, and then only in the event of the equipment being deficient, no instance of which was brought to the attention of the committee.
On the contrary, Mr. Drullard, superintendent of freight department on
the Central railroad, says, to his knowledge, the allegation is untrue.
His language is as follows: " Mr. Cobb is very much mistaken in his
statemant before the committee, that no property was shipped for the citizens of Buffalo between Oct. 20th and Nov. 20th, on the Central railroad.
They had, it is true, large quantities of freight to be forwarded at that
time, but it did not prevent shipments of Buffalo freights between the
dates just mentioned. It frequently occurs in the fall, when the canal has
more than it can do, that forwarders are desirous of making large shipments on the railroad on short notice, at a time when there is a large quan:
tity of property in the railroad freight houses, which has been previously
received. This delays property of the Buffalo forwarders for a few days,
as property must be dispatched in the order it is received. But this state
of things never lasts but a few days at a time."
Contrary to the allegation of a majority of the committee, the undersigned is informed by Mr. Drullard, that from October 20th, to November
20th, 100 car loads of flour, wool, and other freight, equal to 1,000 tons,
were shipped from Buffalo, for people there, to the East, during the period
which the committee claim Buffalo was excluded from a participation of
the benefits of the railroads.
2. How is it proved that this difference in prices operates " against"
citizens of our own State? This claim can only be justified by the same
course of reasoning that would sustain the farmer in Westchester county
in complaining that the railroad discriminated " against" him, because
the farmer of Rensselaer or Columbia was pot charged more on his ship



No. 60.J                           11
ments for a longer distance. The gain of his neighbor is not his loss, unless
he can also prove that what is so carried and sold is of quantity sufficient
to affect the price of the article in the general market. This was not
pretended in respect either of milk or flour. The surplus products of our
State, passing on these lines to market, are not of sufficient amount to
increase or diminish their market value at the point of final disposal or
consumption. It was said that our citizens had moved out of the State, and
gone farther from  market, to get to it at cheaper rates; but not only
was there no proof of this, but the local rates of transportation on all
western connecting roads, from local to central points, was proved to be
higher than on the New York lines, so that no motive could exist to compel such expatriation.
The wealth of the State, as affected by railroads, obtained from the
official records of the Comptroller's office.
The following table exhibits the value of the real and personal property
in the State of New York, for the years 1828, 1838, 1848 and 1858:
1828.      1838.        1848.       1858.
Real.....................  $260,438,875  $504,230,837  $526,624,883  $795,403,134
Personal,.................   68,978,191   126,564,164   125,663,318   306,449,115
Total,...............  $329,417,066  $630,795,001  $652,228,201 $1,101,852,249
The Erie canal was completed and put in operation in the year 1824,
and by 1828 may be said to have fairly commenced its work in developing
the resources of the State. Its influence, in this regard, became manifest
by the assessment of 1838, which shows an increase in the valuation of the
property in ten years, of $301,3771,935, or 91- per cent.
During the succeeding ten years was the beginning of our railroad system. But up to 1848, its extent was limited; its means and equipment
incomplete, and was without connections beyond the State, and was yet too
imperfect in all its aspects to be felt as a means of State prosperity. But
during the period the canals were in the full tide of success, business had
rallied from the revulsion of 1837, and the inland commerce of the State
was thriving; but it had increased the wealth of the State to the full
measure of its power during the ten years preceding, and thenceforth for
this purpose was without influence, for the table shows that the increase of
the value of the property from 1838 to 1848, was only $22,433,200, equal
to only 3-1 per cent against 911 per cent of the previous decade.  It was
during the ten years following, from 1848 to 1858, that the railroad system
became perfected-improved machinery, tracks and rolling stock, and other
facilities came into general use. The New York and Erie, and Hudson
River railroads were completed, and numerous branch roads penetrated every
portion of the State, making lands available, which, until the completion
of these ways had remained unimproved, and almost valueless, and finally
with the extension and completion of its connections with the far west and
south west, the system was so far advanced as to be able to exhibit its
influence in unfolding and adding to the wealth of the State. It should be
borne in mind too, that the system was not complete during the whole




12                       [ASSEMBLY
of this period, but its powers during the time that it was in successful
operation in advancing the prosperity of the State, are to be seen in the
increase of the valuation of the real and personal property during the ten
years ending 1858, of $449,624,048, equal to 69 per cent against the 3per cent of the previous ten years, when the canals, during the whole
period, were in the full fruition of their success.
Many statements were made, showing that the railroads carried through
freight, at a less price per ton per mile, than they demanded for way freight;
this, in the opinion of the subscribers, is justifiable for the following,
among other reasons:
1st. The road, rolling stock and equipment being in order, and used
principally for the crrrying trade along its line, can take on and accommodate its through business in addition, without materially increasing its
expenses, and at a cost therefore much less than the average of its ordinary
business; whether a train of through cars passes along the line, in no way
affects those who use the road from way stations, unless, indeed, as several
gentlemen stated, the profits so made serve to keep down the prices of local
freight, which would be largely increased if compelled to bear the entire
cost of running the trains. The charge that the roads carry through freight
at less than cost is not sustained by any proof.
2d. The amount of through freight thus carried goes into the consumption of our population, increases largely the supply of articles of prime
necessity, such as flour, beef, pork, &c., preventing the monopoly, as in
former years, of those necessaries.  It might assist speculation if these
articles from the Western States were excluded from the New York market,
but would operate disastrously both upon the producer and consumer, by
surrendering the monopoly of the markets into the hands of those who
always thrive best where the necessaries of life are held at stationary prices.
3d. It secures to the New York railroads the carrying trade of the west,
which, at fixed prices of highest rates, would pass off on rival routes south
of us-on the Pennsylvania Central and Baltimore and Ohio roads-thus
building up the cities of Philadelphia and Baltimore at the expense of New
York, and destroying our State commerce for the benefit of competing routes
and cities; and north of us, to Portland, Boston, over the Grand Trunk
railway. The majority of the committee seem to feel no successful rivalry
in this respect; but how presumptuous this confidence is, will appear from
the following statement.
Mr. Stone, president of the Cleveland and Erie railroad, states that a
pro-rata measure, "similar in its provisions to the one now proposed in
this State, was proposed in the Ohio Legislature in the years 1852 and'53.
It was regarded as impracticable, and it did not pass the Legislature," He
"thought it would be impracticable to put such a law in force, particularly on through freights, * * * as the least embarrassment in trade
over any one competing line would throw the trade on the other lines."
X  *  *  " If such a tariff were published, and fixed without change, if it
were at or below cost, the line might do a proportion of the business; but




No. 60.]                         13
if it afforded a profit, to any extent, the competing lines would take it at
enough below to entirely control the trade.  Ten cents a ton would change
it from one route to another."  *  *  *  He thought "if any one line
was restricted from the Mississippi valley to the Atlantic cities, and all
the rest left free, it would practically annihilate its value." Mr. Minot,
superintendent of the New York and Erie railroad, says that "a very
small difference in the rate for carrying freight, say twenty cents a ton,
with the same time, would turn the freight of the country to other lines."
A pro rata tariff, to remain fixed for a month, "would be very injurious,
for we could not meet the competitions of other roads by coming down as
low as they, and we should lose a great deal of business: they would have
it in their power to fix their tariff so that we could not get any through
business, or very little, if any; the other roads, knowing our tariff, would
arrange theirs so as to get the whole of it."  *  *  *  He thought "the
New York and Erie would give up their through business beyond all doubt."
*   *   *  " The ability to fix rates from day to day for long freight,
was a very great element of power in a railroad, to enable it to keep up
prices by its being able to meet its competitors, if they were taking a
course that it thought injurious.
Mr. Marsh, for fifteen years Secretary, and at present Receiver of the
New York and Erie Railroad, states that, " under a pro rata, the New
York roads would have no power to compete in the western markets for
through traffic," that "a small reduction by the competing lines would
take away the freight, and would continue to do so until the rates were
fixed below cost, when the competing roads would give it to us;" that
under such a statute, the through business could not be retained, and
would not be attempted to be."
Mr. Brooks, President of the Michigan Central road, states that, " in
the centers of trade in the West, if any one of the several lines should put
out its rates as fixed and unchangeable for a month, the others would certainly do the business, unless the rate was fixed at a point where no profit
could be made; then the line having the fixed rates would do the business."
* * * "Ability to change rates operated to keep rates steady." Mr.
Brooks stated certain experiences of his own, bothl in passenger and freight
traffic, which justified this conclusion:  " While passengers would leave a
line gradually, under such a restriction, freight would leave it en masse
at once."  *  *  *  "If the rate on the New York roads was fixed at so
much per ton per mile for thirty days, the effect would be to give the
freight to the other lines for twenty-nine days out of that month, unless the
rate was so low as to afford no profit." Mr. Phillips, Superintendent of
the Boston and Worcester Railroad, states, " that the effect of pro rata on
the Boston road would be such, that unless they put their prices of freight
very low per mile, so as to leave no profit, the business would go to other
routes, which, in competing for it, would put their rates a little lower. The
only safety that roads had in competition, was to be able to follow the reductions of others at once. If, on the completion of the Southern roads to




14                     [ASSEMBLY
Chicago and the West, the New York roads had not been able to reduce
their rates at the same time with their competitors, the latter would have
taken the through business.
Mr. Hubbie, president of the Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati railroad, states, that in case of a stated tariff for a month, the New York
roads, if their tariff was so low that no profit could be made, might retain
their shares of the business, but if it left any margin for profit, the other
routes would bid enough lower to get the business.
The New York roads gave the western roads fixed tariffs up to 1858,
but the competition of the southern roads, just completed, compelled a deviation in order to retain the through freighting business.
Mr. Hammond, superintendent of the Chicago and Quiucy and Burlington railroad, states, that under the proposed pro rata bill, the New York
lines could not take a pound of the through freight from Chicago. The
first, second and third classes would go round, and the fourth class would
be divided.
Mr. Boody, president of the Toledo and Wabash Valley railroad, Mr.
Briggs, freight agent of the Hudson River railroad, Mr. Powers, superintendent of the Hudson and Boston railroads, and other persons whose
statements were received, all gave testimony similar to the foregoing.
Still the majority, in their report, as if conscious of the presence of this
evidence, advise that if New York cannot carry below all others at fixed
rates, " it is in vain to protract the struggle," and that she should give
it up.
It is humiliating to contemplate this language, and the results which
would inevitably follow its adoption. Our State pride —the conciousness
of our ability by greater enterprise to compete with our rivals, to overcome
shorter routes, and cheaper transportation-advantage of markets, and the
prestige of past achievements, all call upon us to retain what we have, and
secure more if possible, and to "give up" nothing in the race of honorable
competition.
What advantage is to accrue to our citizens or our railways by this exclusion of the through freight, under the fixed tariff, unalterable for a month,
no one can perceive; while its loss will operate disastrously upon all concerned, and divert from our State sources of wealth which once lost can
never be regained.
It is stated by the majority of the committee that a movement is already
on foot in Pennsylvania and the western states, with the prospect of success, designed to apply the pro rata principle to their roads. In that event
they leave us to infer that our New York roads would still retain their
relative position with respect to their formidable southern rivals.
We will not pause here to question the propriety of speculating upon
any such action on the part of other legislatures, but on the supposition
that they should adopt the pro rata system, it would give Philadelphia and
Baltimore a decided advantage over the city of New York.
If we allow but one cent per ton per mile for the transportation of freight,




No. 60.]                          15
the shortest distance from central points at the west would give Philadelphia the advantage over New York, the latter taking her own roads, of
$12 30 per car of 10 tons from Cleveland.
13 60       "       "        Chicago.
16 10       "        "       St. Louis.
18 90       "        "       Columbus.
18 90       "        "       Cincinnati.
Baltimore being 298 miles nearer to Cincinnati than New York is by her
roads, would have the large advantage under a pro rata system of $29.80
per car of ten tons! The correctness of this statement may be easily
ascertained by any one who will estimate the relative distances.
- It will also be seen that, under a general pro rata system, our New
York roads could not compete with their southern rivals for freight to
New York.  The latter would deliver to, and take from  New York, at a
less rate by from $3 to $10, per car of ten tons. By what process of
reasoning, therefore, can the majority of the committee urge that our State
or our roads are to be benefited by the general adoption of the pro rata
principle?
It would inevitably deprive them of every pound of through freight, and
involve them in certain ruin, unless by an increase of their local rates
they could make up their loss.
But thait would add to the burthens of our people, and our State would
lose the benefits of a commerce which has thus far been the chief element
of her prosperity.
Have our farmers contemplated the results upon themselves of the loss
of the supremacy of our markets, which would follow the recommendation
of the majority of the committee, and the surrender, by New York, of her
commercial prestige? How it would depress, instead of increase, the value
of the commodities in the seaboard, which, while selling for less in the
market, would have to bear an increased cost of transportation by all the
difference of the sums now realized for the freight to be permanently lost,
if the bill now reported is passed as a law.
It has been urged that in case the railways cease to carry through freights,
some of it will find its way to market on the canal, and thus the State will
receive the benefit in tolls, which will be lost by the owners of the road.
It is clear that no such result could enure in respect of any freight of
the 1st, 2d, and 3d class, and only to a very limited extent on those of the
4th class; for all freights, as well as passengers, follow the principal
lines of transit.  If three classes of merchandize pass on the southern lines,
to and from the seaboard, the fourth will follow, and the State will strangle
private enterprise without any benefit to herself.  And besides, no State,
has the moral right to saddle upon new and cheaper modes of conveyance,
the burdens of the old and obsolete. No such policy can stand; it will
break down those who sustain it, and sooner or later bring its advocates to
ruin. The seizure of private property by the State, to avoid taxation on
its enterprises, which are not self-supporting, cannot be justified by honesty
or fair dealing, and is too monstrous for consideration.




16                       [ASSEMBLY
Advance of Winter Prices.
3. It was further shown that the average cost of winter, over that of
summer, on the northern roads, was at least 50 per cent as much as the
advance of freight, on account of frost, snow, breakage, and the wear and
tear incident to high latitudes and inclement seasons. The statements
were full and complete on this point, and uncontradicted; yet the majority,
by a strange oversight, attribute this advance to the absence of canal competition during the winter months. If this were so, it would be difficult to
perceive why our railroads should be united in the amount of their prices
by a cause which has no existence, as in the winter months there are no
canals! It is the same as if they never existed; they might as well be
filled with rock as ice for five months; and having no power of completion,
ought not to be considered as regulators any more than a turnpike. The
advanced cost of winter transportation was, however, the reason most satisfactorily proved to justify higher rates, experts stating that the winter rates
were no more profitable to the railways than summer rates.
It is also proper to state that the most of the freight tariffs read before
the committee were for the purpose of showing,
1. The difference in price between through and way freights, and
2. The low tariff charged on through merchandize, which the petitioners
claimed was not remunerative to the companies.
This last charge, as hereinbefore.stated, was not sustained by proof;
and, moreover, those freight bills were principally taken from periods
within the past two years, when rival roads were engaged in a struggle of
ruinous competition for this trade, which was retained by our lines only
from their ability to carry as low as the southern roads; and when, had a
pro rata freight bill existed, with no power in the companies to alter it for
a month, they wculd have swept the whole transportation of freight from
their lines to Philadelphia and Baltimore, and left our State prostrate and
powerless in the contest.
It was thus evident that this whole warfare on our railroad interests is
founded in prejudice, interest, or mistake; and that, no legislation can
correct these differences in freights; and that the ability of the roads to
command western freights at all, lies in their power at any moment to
alter their tariffs, so as to meet their rivals in western cities on terms of
equality. It is this ability to fall that keeps competing roads in check,
and is the only means of coercing them  into terms; and so evident is
this, that no greater boon could be proffered to other roads than such a
bill as the majority recommend, to tie our own roads hand and foot, and
surrender them to the mercy of their foes. It is at once false, unjust, and
suicidal!  The undersigned does not deem it necessary to examine at
length the false principles of political science, and the unsound logic which
have crept into the report of the majority.  They are so apparent as to
correct themselves.
Much is said by them  about "natural traffic," and "non-natural
traffic." It is not quite certain in what sense the committee use these




No. 60.]                         17
terms; but all modes of transportation are non-natural, or artificial. Our
noblest rivers are useless without art, to invent and construct boats and
vessels. Our canals and railways are but triumphs of art over nature,
that which is cheapest and best will conquer in the end, and will draw to
itself the public use and regard.  There is no such thing as "natural
traffic," any more than " natural locotmotives," or "natural canal boats."
The summary of principles, at the end of their report, is equally, in the
judgment of the undersigned, unsound.
It is said the law calls railroads into being for the public good, primarily, and only secondarily for the interest of the stockholders. It is not
perceptible how the law calls them into being at all, or why the public
good is primary in their creation, in any other sense than a partnership, or
transportation company is called into being by the law, and is organized
for the public good first, and for the interest of the partners in a secondary
sense.  If the principle reaches beyond this, it is rank agrarianism.
Railroads are the property of those who build and pay for them, as really
as anythirg else.  The State may levy taxes on private property in any
shape, upon principles of uniformity, but it has no right to seize what is
embarked in the carrying trade, any more than what is employed in banking or agriculture. This is an outrage no civilized government has ever
before attempted. If allowed as to railways, it is justified on canals,
rivers, lakes, turnpikes, carriage by land or by water. If a citizen claims
that common carriers owe him the " best use " of their mode of transportation, and that he is to judge what that " best use " is, he may claim exemption from the payment of all fares, and make himself master of all he
covets, on the principles advocated in the report of the majority.
The principles which they assert, as embodied in the bill, are equally
subversive of all public honor and private right. It is assumed that the
" public " (used as a canal phrase) own the railways, that the stockholders
interest is " secondary," and that the public are to be restored to the advantages promised them in the construction of railroads, which have been
"audaciously wrested from them."  This is most extraordinary language
to apply to their great interests, and is premonitory of violence and spoliation. It can mean nothing else, being totally subversive not only of private right, but of sound morals.
Penalties.
Under the law as reported, if an overcharge shall occur for a single
pound, whether by mistake or in consequence of wastage, shrinkage, or
other cause, the company so offending is subjected to a fine of $1,000,
which sum " shall belong to the plaintiff " or complainant. Errors in bills
of lading received from connecting lines, become the errors of the company;
for unless it shall detect and correct such errors before it receives the
freight, it incurs the penalty imposed. Thus is the company placed, to a
great extent, in the power of the informer, whose restless cupidity will
ever be on the alert to find occasion for prosecution.




18                     [AsSEMBLY
Forty cents per ton for handling, 4e.
As an offset to the increased cost of carrying local, as compared with
through freights, the majority of the committee propose to allow the companies 40 per cent per ton for handling, and in the same proportion for
fractional parts of a ton. But they seem to overlook the fact that this
very provision imposes additional labor, and hence additional cost upon the
companies. Thousands of parcels and packages are daily brought to them,
ranging from a few pounds up to two thousand pounds. In order to comply with the law, each parcel must be carefully weighed, the fractional proportion per ton per mile estimated, and the fractional proportion of the 40
cents per ton apportioned to each parcel so weighed and estimated, The
cost of the additional labor thus required, would more than counterbalance
the compensation allowed. And here let it be borne in mind, that shipments
in parcels are almost invariably composed of articles which do not and
never will go by canal.
The undersigned would call the particular attention of the House to one
important fact, that the proposed measure has not the merit of being the
source or means of revenue to the State; on the contrary, if any weight is
to be attached to the testimony of the numerous and intelligent witnesses
examined before the committee, its practical effects will be to injure the
general business of the State, and thereby diminish its sources of revenue.
The subject is of the first importance; and from the fact that much
prejudice has been created, and many false views are entertained in respect
to it, the undersigned has thought proper to append the evidence, taken by
a stenographer, to his report, that this honorable body may take such action
in the premises as may be just, believing that the whole matter is more
wisely left to regulate itself without legislative control.
GEO. W. VARIAN.




STATE OF NEW YORK.
No. 59.
IN ASSEMBLY, FEB. 6, 1860.
REMONSTRANCE
Of the Chamber of Commerce, against the passage of "An act
in relation to the transportation of freight on the several
railroad of this State," &c.
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE,
NEW YORK, February 2, 1860.
To the Hon. the Legislature of the State of NJew York:
In Senate and Assembly convened:
The remonstrance of the Chamber of Commerce of the State of
New York, against the passage of "An act in relation to the transportation of freight on the several railroads of this State," and
"An act imposing tolls on railroads," respectfully represents:
That the first named act, commonly called the pro-rata freight
bill, is grounded on false principles of legislation, tyrannical in
its provisions, and subversive of the best interests of the State.
It provides that all the railroads in this State shall carry freight
at the same rate per mile for a short distance, that they charge
for a long distance. This arbitrary interference with the natural
laws of trade, is justified by the friends of the bill on the ground
that the producers of this State need protection from western
competition, and that the State canals need protection from railroad competition. Will its passage secure these ends? If it does,
it must necessarily be at the expense of the railroad and commercial interests of the State. And your remonstrants would respectfully ask, what right has the State to legislate in favor of one
interest, at the cost of others? Why unjustly interfere with the
chartered rights of railroad companies, and diminish their profits,
when they are already seriously depressed?  Why aim a deadly
blow at the commercial supremacy of the State, when that supre[Assembly, No. 59.]          1




2                     [ASSEMBLY
macy is known to be the element which has enabled her to outstrip
her sister States in population and wealth? Justice and sound
policy alike forbid such legislation, even if other interests should
receive commensurate benefits. But your remonstrants aver, and
will endeavor to show, that such cannot be the case with this bill.
If it becomes a law, it cannot fail to mar every interest it affects,
including those it is specially designed to aid.
The railroads of this State now carry through freight at cheaper
rates per mile than they charge on local freight.  The pro-rata
freight bill demands their equalization. How shall this be done? A
careful analysis of the question will show that it cannot be done
at all; or, rather, that compliance with the law will be impracticable on any other basis than a total abandonment of the through
freight. The prices charged for the carriage of that class of
freight are governed by a competition which embraces numerous
lines of transportation, in other States and in Canada. Therefore, these prices cannot be enchanced by the roads of this State,
without diverting the whole carrying trade of the west to those
of other States, which -are now successfully competing for portions of it. Any advance, however small, would be certain to
produce this result. If any doubt exist on this point, it will be
removed by considering that the bill requires the New York roads
to publish their rates, and forbids their alteration for at least
thirty days. The competing lines of other States, thus enlightened on the subject, will not fail to take advantage of our folly, by
placing their rates slightly below those established here, to monopolize the western business. Nor, on the other hand, can local
freights be carried at present through rates. An attempt to do
so, would deprive the roads of a large share of their profits.
They would soon become bankrupt, deteriorate in quality, be unsafe for travel, and finally lost to their owners, and the people of
the State deprived of their use.
Thus the railroads cannot bring about the equalization in their
charges, which the bill requires, without producing one of two
consequences:-the loss of their through business, or the loss of
most of their profits on local business. If they attempt to increase their charges on through freight, they lose it, and it goes
into the hands of competitors from other States; if they abate
the difference now charged on local freight, they are ruined.
Which will they do?  The answer is obvious. They will do
neither. They will not attempt to bring about the required equalization, but will proceed to comply with the arbitrary provisions




No. 59.]                     3
of the bill by abandoning through freight altogether, and, as a
compensation for its loss, and the loss of the through travel that
accompanies it, they will enhance their charges on local freights.
They must necessarily adopt this course, for the bill compels
them to choose between this alternative and the utter prostration
of their business. And what must be its effects on the interests
of the State?
It is evident, in the first place, that it must impose heavy burdens on those residing in the interior and in the western sections
of the State. It will increase the expenses of sending their surplus products to market; it will add to the cost of their supplies,
diminish railroad disbursements in their midst, and paralyze their
commerce.
These are the bitter fruits it must yield to those whose interests
it is intended to promote. In the next place, the railroads of the
State, representing a capital of $160,000,000, must be seriously
injured, if not utterly prostrated, by the loss of all their through
freight and a share of their through travel.
But these consequences, much as they are to be deplored, are
quite harmless in comparison with the blighting effects that this
ill advised measure is calculated to produce on the commercial interests of the whole State. By depriving our railroads of the
power to carry through freights, it will necessarily turn them into
other channels, and send them  to other commercial marts. We
shall thus lose a large share of that valuable western commerce
which now centres here. This loss will be felt in every city and
town on the lines of the railroads, as well as in the city of New
York. In fact any injury inflicted on the commerce of the State
must be felt in every country, town and hamlet, for it is the chief
element of her prosperity.
Your remonstrants cannot believe it possible that your enlightened bodies will favorably entertain a measure so fraught with
evil as this. Instead of obstructing our means of transport and
communication with the great and growing west, the State should
do everything in its power to increase these facilities. Our commercial supremacy is not so secure for the future as we are prone
to believe. A single act of madness and folly, like the one before
you, might transfer our commercial scepter to other hands. We
have active and vigilant rivals on every side, and they are exerting every effort to draw off our trade. The Grand Trunk railroad especially, is likely to attract the commerce of the west to a
large extent. It is mainly owned by British capitalists, who are




4                    [ASSEMBLY
content with 2- and 3 per cent per annum on their investments,
especially when, as in this case, it tends to gratify their strong
national feelings by giving their own country an advantage over
a dreaded rival. It is already attracting freight from the confluence of the Ohio and Mississippi rivers, and it is constantly increasing its powers by securing control of different railroad lines
in the western States. Nor should this State be unmindful of the
rapid increase in the commerce between western States and Europe
by way of the St. Lawrence river. In 1857, the first and only
vessel of that year, cleared from the upper lakes direct for Europe. In 1859, the number reach one hundred. At this rate of
increase it would require but a very few years for that channel to
absorb the whole carrying trade of the west.
These significant and alarming facts demonstrate the urgent necessity, not merely of refraining from unfriendly commercial
legislation, but of united and vigorous efforts to increase the
facilities of trade with other States. To this end, the canal enlargement should, in the opinion of your remonstrants, be speedily
completed and fitted for steam navigation, with the tolls reduced
to rates that will insure to it a fair portion of the western freight;
and the railroads should be left perfectly free to exercise their
full capacity in the same direction. It is only by a liberal and
enlightened policy of this character that the State can hope to
retain her present commercial supremacy. She must not shut her
eyes to the fact that railroads are about to supersede canals in the
transportation of goods, as they long since superseded both stages
and canals in the carrying of passengers. The older and less perfect methods of intercommunication should not be permitted to
stand in their way, and impede their progress and usefulness. The
canals and other interests may be injured by them, just as the value
of hand looms were injured by the introduction of power looms, but
in both cases society is greatly benefited by the change. In truth,
the arts of civilized society never take a step in advance without
injuring some of its members. But this is no sufficient reason
against their adoption. They constitute the advancing steps by
which a higher civilization is attained.
Most of the objections urged against the pro-rata freight bill
will apply to the proposition to toll the railroads. The two bills
are the same in principle, differing only in degree. The latter
would seriously interfere with the western commerce of this State,
but it would not, like the former, utterly destroy it. But the
policy of tolling the railroads is mainly urged on financial grounds.




No. 59.]                     5
Its friends say it will put money in the State treasury. True,
this must be its direct effect: but its ultimate consequences must
be to protect the trade and commerce of other States against the
competition of New York. In effect, it offers a bounty to Philadelphia and Baltimore on the south, and to Portland and Quebec
on the north, for taking trade which would otherwise come to this
city. Your remonstrants do not envy the commercial prosperity
of those cities: but they do protest against an act of self-destruction, on the part of our representatives, for the benefit of our
rivals.
Another effect of the special tax proposed would be to enhance
the prices of food brought from the west to the population of our
crowded cities and villages, while it would at the same time tend
to diminish the employment, and reduce the compensation of
labor.
For these, and many other reasons that might be advanced, your
remonstrants respectfully, but most earnestly, urge the rejection
of both bills.
By order of the Chamber of Commerce.
P. PERIT, President.
Attest,             J. SMITH HOMANS, Secretary.








STATE OF NEW YORK.
No. 35.
IN SENATE, FEB. 8, 1860.
REPORT
Of the Minority of the Select Committee, on the petitions and
bills for imposing Tolls on certain Railroads.
The question of taxing some of the principal lines of railroads
in our State, is again pressed upon the Legislature, and the attention of the undersigned has been given to a careful consideration
of the measure, and of the bearing of the same upon the general
interests of the State, and upon localities, as well as upon the
property invested in these works. A matter of such grave importance, deserves careful examination, and a wise reflection upon its
justice, necessity, and consequences. This matter has, for many
years, been considered, and discussed, and as it has been examined,
in its various bearings, the same conclusion has been reached by
the Legislature. And that has been, that it ought not to be
adopted. The first thought that naturally arises in this: Are
there now, any different reasons why the railroads should be specially taxed, than have heretofore existed? Are they any more
independent of competition?  As the canal approaches completion, and its capacity is about to be tested, after having been in
a transition state for twenty years, have we learned what it will
be capable of, when thus finished, and whether it will be necessary to adopt a measure for its protection, that has always heretofore been regarded as of such doubtful propriety, as to induce all
previous Legislatures, since 1851, to reject it?
In the year 1851, the question was settled, and the broad and
distinct ground taken by the Legislature, that thereafter no tolls
or charges should be levied or charged by the people of this State,
upon our railroads. They were left to be regulated, in respect to
their charges upon the transportation of property, by the salutary
[Assembly, No. 35.]           1




2                      [SENATE
control which the laws of trade will always exercise. There are
some very interesting facts in respect to the business of transportation that year, which may be usefully presented and considered.
The tolls upon the canals that year amounted to the sum of $3,700,000, with a tonnage of 3,582,000, or about $1.00 toll per ton.
The tolls on the canals were reduced, and this at once lessened
their revenue. In 1858, the tonnage on the canals had increased
to 3,655,000, or an addition of 80,000 tons upon the aggregate
tonnage of 1851; but the revenues, in 1858, were $2,047.000, or
a reduction of $1,600,000.
Why was this course of reducing the canal tolls resorted to?
While this process of reduction was going on, the tonnage kept
up, or wasincreased, as is shown from'51 to'58. In no year was
it reduced, except in 1857, during the pecuniary revulsion. It
would-seem clear, that there must have been some cause for reducing tolls, some sound and controlling reasons. The reason undoubtedly was, that it was deemed necessary so to reduce the
canal tolls to meet competition, for that was the ground taken and
pressed by the forwarders on the canals. The largest amount of
canal tolls ever received (except in 1847)was in 1851. Then the
tolls were reduced, and the revenue fell off over half a million of
dollars the first year.
Before this period, we' had enjoyed almost the whole of the
western trade, through our canals. Two years later, in 1853, in
order to render our lines of railroads most efficient, to enter upon
the competition of this western trade, the various companies owning and occupying the route which is now the New York Central,
were consolidated into one company, the objects, design, and reason for which, was to give to this line the most efficient organization, and the best capacity to continue the great business of transportation through our State, and to bring the products of the west
to our market. This was most wise and provident legislation, as
the event has shown. For had this line been left in the disjointed
state in which it then was, the growing strength of other routes,
which will be alluded to, would have diverted the trade from our
State.
In thus preparing the New York Central railroad to enter upon
the course of competing for the western business, freed from taxation, one most important condition was required or imposed upon
it. The rate of way passenger fare was limited to two cents per
mile. And this is now the rate of passenger fare on that road.
It is supposed that this low rate is confined to our State, and that




No. 35.]                      3
nowhere else can there be found a rate as low. This rate, in first
class express trains, is just about equal to the lowest rate in open
cars, at slow speed, in other countries. A large local, or way passenger business, is transported by this road, and those traveling
upon it, have the benefit of this low rate of fare, which was thus
imposed as a condition.
In 1858, the competition in the carrying trade, at the great
grain points at the west, had become severe and sharp. These
points are far beyond our State. Property designed for market
there, at the outset, takes its course and direction to its destination. In order that the owners may use our canal, as an avenue
of trasportation, we reduce our tolls, so that, by reduced charges,
we may invite such property through our State. These reductions have been so large, that upon an increased business, or tonnage, we actually find our canal revenues lessened $1,600,000, in
the year 1858, below what they were in 1851. This reduction of
tolls has enabled the canal to keep up its tonnage, but it gets less
pay for it. Now the question arises, can it get any higher rate of
tolls?  Can the revenue be increased, by such higher rates?  If
such increase can be sustained, then all that is necessary, is to
raise the tolls. The same rate of tolls charged in 1858, as in
1851, would have very largely increased the revenue of that year,
if the tonnage could have been kept up. While the greatest
amount of canal tolls was in 1851, under the process of reduction,
the tonnage has kept up. During this period, the great lines of
railroad, south and north of us, have sprung up, and entered into
competition with us for this great western trade.  To meet them,
we have been compelled to reduce'the tolls on our canals. To
meet them our two railroads have been compelled to' carry at
their prices, or lose the trade. If the canal tolls have been necessarily reduced, so that it may share in the western business, so
have our railroads equally been compelled to reduce their rates, so
as to share in the same business. If we cannot raise the tolls on
the canals, neither can our railroads raise their rates, because the
same consequence would follow to each. They would lose the
trade. The two great southern lines, the Baltimore and Ohio,
and the Pennsylvania Central, and the Grand Trunk on the north,
would at once take the trade. The primary object of very many
who press for tolls on our railroads, is to raise their rates. That
is, so to burthen them, as to drive -them  out of the competition.
This is why the various measures are pressed against the railroads. The course is justified, because it is supposed that then




4                      [SENATE
the business would take the canal. But there is the same power
left that has forced down the tolls on the canals, and the rates on
our railroads. The imposing a burthen on our railroads, while it
deprives our own lines of the power to compete for the business,
only strengthens the great lines south and north of us. It cripples
dur own railroads. It turns the tide and the bulk of the western
trade, through other avenues, and to other markets. Our canals
will lose, instead of gain, because it will grow up other markets,
will turn western business from us. It is vastly more important
to our canals, that our own railroads should carry the western
property, rather than that it should be transported by the southern or northern routes, because they take the trade from our State,
and other States and cities grow and profit, at our expense. These
rival lines will thus be directly strengthened, and benefited, by
the imposition of tolls on the railroads of this State. The object
of those engaged upon the canals, who press this measure, is to
compel our railroads to raise their rates.
Those engaged in transportation on the canals, may not be good
advisers as to State policy, though they have always pressed for
the reduction of State tolls, and have exerted the main force that
has produced such reduction from time to time. The tolls are
but a part of the whole cost of transportation, and if the State
reduces, the forwarder gets the benefit, for he may not be forced
correspondingly to reduce his share. The interest of the forwarder is always against that of the State; for he wishes force, or
induce the State to reduce its share, that is, the tolls, while he
may not follow the same policy. It is his interest to keep up his
share of the whole charge. He finds the Central and the Erie
railroads carrying at low rates, because the rates are fixed for
them, by the offers of the Pennsylvania Central and the Grand
Trunk, and he seeks legislation to force the Central and the Erie
railroads to raise their rates, which he calculates drives them out of
the competition. This result produced, he considers that the
canal, as he denominates it, (but really himself), has disposed of
all the power of competition for all the property, that must come
through this State, and so it must come by the canal, that is, by
his craft thereon. All this time, while producing this result, he
will not consent to raise tolls on the canals, because that would
lessen his share. Now is not this a plain and practical solution
of the position of the parties. It is the interest of the railroads to
raise the rates if they could, and should they turn round and apply to raise the tolls on the canal, they would in fact be occupy



No. 35.]                     5
ing the same position that those engaged in transportation on the
canal are pursuing in respect to the railroads. If we look at all
these matters in an enlarged point of view, it will be found that
these suggestions are practical and plain common sense.
It is the interest of the producer, consumer and of every locality to have rates of transportation at the lowest attainable point.
But the interest of the forwarder on the canal is to have high
rates. Hence he is not a good adviser. It is also the interest of
the railroads to get the highest attainable rates, but that point
is forced down by the competition of the rival routes, and then
they are complained of for carrying so low, and it is even charged
upon them that they are carrying lower than they can afford to.
The charges of transportation go to increase the cost of the article carried. These charges are a tax on the producer or consumer,
and it is a common interest that they should be fixed at the lowest remunerating point. Those only are interested to raise them,
who wish to drive others out of business. Now any effort of
this State to drive foreign lines to raise rates or retire from the
competition, is utterly powerless. We may injure ourselves and
benefit other lines and other cities at our expense, but we can
only match them and sustain ourselves by the freeest competition
of our own works. The laws of trade are far above the power of
any enactments that we may adopt. We may put just such burthens on our railroads as to destroy their business, but we shall
only inflict a great injury thereby upon our State and our great
city. That city has grown by reason of its lines of transportation to the interior. Impede, embarrass, or obstruct them, and we
shall see in our waning trade, too late, that we have bound down
our own energies, and unwisely deprived ourselves of a boon that
we might have enjoyed.
The railroad has stretched all over the country. It has carried
markets into every neighborhood. It has thereby raised the value
of lands. Has encouraged agricultural industry, because it has
made markets for the surplus. Its power of diffusing trade, of
affecting the exchanges of property, is beyond all former knowledge. It has spread over States, where canals were before in
use. Look at Pennsylvania, at Ohio, at Indiana and Illinois with
their canals and their railroads. Each has had much experience.
Each has constructed and owned canals.  Each now gives to
its railroads full power to compete for business, unembarrassed
by State restrictions and controlled only by that law which will
govern,-the law of trade.




6                      [SENATE
The means of transportation are now largely in excess of the
business, and property must be carried at low rates, because of
such excess. Chicago, Milwaukie and Toledo are the great grain
points at the west. In each of these may be found the offices and
agents of the great railroad lines of the country. Those agents
contract for the transportation of the property by their respective lines. They are skilled in the business. They control the
charges, and the agents of the New York Central and the Erie,
must make as low rates as the Pennsylvania Central, the Baltimore and Ohio and the Grand Trunk, or loose the business. Just
so must those who do business upon the canals. Prices at these
great points are fixed through, and must be so contracted. Those
who seek to embarrass the railroads desire thereby to drive them
out of the competition for the through business. Would it not
operate most disastrously to the city of New York to have it understood in the great grain points alluded to, that the State of
New York had taxed the lines of trade between them and the seaboard? The feeling towards such a measure would not be conciliated by its mistaken character, or its folly, but it would most
certainly embarrass the unobstructed intercourse which we wish
to maintain with those great centers of trade.
Our canal is just upon the point of completion. Next year or
next season, we may see it completed, and it then will be ascertained how its capacity and power of transportation will compare
with other lines. It is most earnestly hoped that it may be a
better line of transportation than the railroads, and that we shall
find the benefit of the great amount  which it has cost in its completion. If however, it cannot overmatch the railroads, we cannot mend the matter by legislation. It will only make it worse
to tax our railroads. On the contrary, we shall find it our interest to sustain them, to aid them in competing for the trade which
we have enjoyed and which is so essential to our prosperity and
success. Internal commerce, by means of our canals and railroads, is our great State interest. These lines in free and unobstructed action have made the city of New York the great commercial center of the whole country. All parts of the State have
an interest in the prosperity of that city. It is a great mistake
to suppose that we can have any interest in obstructing the longest possible lines of communication with our city. At the outset
of the canal, it was looked upon with an unfriendly feeling by the
inhabitants of the river counties, because the effect was to bring
the western part of the State in competition with them. But this




No. 35.]                      7
was a narrow view, and has given place to more sound conclu.
sions there. Equally unsound is it, for any section of our State
to consider that there can be any true interest to tax, or embarrass the railroads, because they bring property from the western
States to our markets. The railroads, by so doing, are advancing
the common property, in which all cannot but share.
All parties and interests, except the carrier himself, are directly interested in favor of low rates of charge. The railroads are
forced to carry low, and for that they are complained of. Disguise it as we will, the plain truth is, that this is the very essence
and point, and force of their offending, that they carry at low rates.
The canal forwarder wishes to tax the railroads, to embarrass
them by difficult and burthensome regulations, so as to force them
to impose higher rates, and to drive them from  competition for
the through business. This very plain statement seems to be
really the whole of the matter of complaint. It is claimed by
our railroad companies, and it is supposed truly, that they transport property at lower rates than any other lines in this country
or elsewhere. Conceding this to be true, what is there to complain of? Who is injured thereby? Are not the railroads by
thus carrying at the lowest rates, fulfilling, in the very best faith
the object for which they are authorized, constructed and sustained? Ought we not to look with distrust upon any person or
interest which complains of such low rates? It would certainly
seem that the lower they are able to carry property the better for
all. There certainly must be a great delusion, to suppose that
this great State, can so legislate in respect to its own railroads,
as to force them to higher rates of charge, as to drive them from
all power of competition for through business; to make them at the
great grain points at the west, entirely and wholly dependent
upon the railroads of other States, and other markets, for a trifling share in a great trade that should be free to all.
This. question has been thus far treated, in the plain and practical view which would strike the unprejudiced examiner as correct. Allusion has been made to other lines, and it is proper that
they should be presented, so that a just estimate may be formed
of their relative capacity.
In our State, we have the Hudson River railroad to Albany, the
New York Central to Buffalo, the Lake Shore road to Toledo, and
the Michigan Southern to Chicago. There is another route by
the Suspension Bridge, by the Great Western in Canada and by
the Michigan Central to Chicago.




8                      SENAtI
We have the Erie railroad to Buffalo and to Dunkirk, and
thence by the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern to Chicago.
From Cleveland on the Lake Shore roads connect across the State
of Ohio with Cincinnati. By way of Cleveland, also of Toledo
and of Chicago, they connect with St. Louis.
The Pennsylvania Central extends from Philadelphia to Pittsburg, and there connects with the Pittsburgh and Fort Wayne
road direct to Chicago, and is the shortest and most direct line
of rails. It connects directly with Cincinnati and St. Louis.
The Baltimore and Ohio railroad has its first great connection
with the Ohio river. It connects also direct by rail with all the
other great points at the west.
The city of Philadelphia has a large interest in the Pennsylvania Central, and that interest is an active one for the benefit of
that city.
The city of Baltimore has a large interest in the Baltimore and
Ohio railroad, and uses most efficiently for the benefit of that city
all the power which such an interest gives.
The Grand Trunk extends from the city of Quebec and also
from the city of Portland by a single route to Port Sarnia at the,foot of lake Huron, and thence by rail to Detroit. At Detroit, it
connects with both the Michigan Central and the Michigan Southern to Chicago, and with the Detroit and Milwaukee to the latter
named city. It thus reaches all the great grain points at the
west.
It is matter very proper to be considered here, that the connection of the New York Central with Chicago is through Canada, and through Pennsylvania and the Erie railroad only connects
with the west through the last named State. The legislationiof
that State has been most severe upon the Lake Shore line, and if
in protection of its own railroads, it should follow our example in
taxing or embarrassing the line across that State, the whole loss
would fall on us, just as it would if we tax our own roads.
It is also proper to say, the Sunbury road from Erie to Philadelphia is in rapid progress, and then our whole trade from the
west on the south side of lake Erie is to come across Pennsylvania, though the borough of Erie. If we set the example to tax,
embarrass and obstruct roads, how effectually can Pennsylvania
close up the matter by a similar course; only we may be sure she
will not tax the Sunbury, but will wisely leave the business untaxed and unobstructed to flow over her own road to Philadelphia. This may be no fanciful view, if we commence by taxing




No. 35.]                     9
and obstructing the trade of the States west of Philadelphia.
They might make common cause to urge that State to cut us off.
There is not a conceivable aspect of this whole question that is
not fraught with difficulty and danger, and we ought not to take
a course so contrary to experience and a sound understanding of
the course of trade.
The distance from Philadelphia by the Pennsylvania Central,
is nearer to the following named places than New York is by her
roads, as follows;
To Cleveland by 123 miles.
Chicago    " 136  "
St. Louis  " 160  "
Cincinnati " 190 "
From New York to the western towns, the distance is less by
way of the Pennsylvania Central than by either of our New York
roads. It is actually 47 m'j_]s from New York to Chicago by
the Pennsylvania road than by our roads. So it is 100 miles less
to Cincinnati. The Pennsylvania Central is a most thoroughly
constructed road, and in 1858 it largely exceeded the New York
Central in tonnage. It has then abundant capacity for business.
It has a most central connection in Chicago with all the western
and northern roads entering that city. In the event of taxation
or embarrassment upon our lines, that will be the most eligible rail
connection between New York and Chicago and the great western points. Though the trade first reaches Philadelphia, still that
will be'the preferable route. If our roads can only sustain themselves at present, what will they do with taxes and embarrassment?
The Baltimore and Ohio railroad is a powerful competitor for
the western trade. In its shorter length of line to the Ohio river,
it has immense advantages. It was at first supposed that its high
grades were a draw-back upon its power; but it has an abundant
compensation in cheap fuel. The coal costs so little, that it crosses
the mountains without difficulty. The increased power produced
by the cheap fuel, levels the mountion.
The Grank Trunk is a new and powerful line. Already it has
under-bid the other roads, in the western markets. It is seeking
the connection and control of one of the Michigan roads, in its
line to Chicago. It has a powerful regular line of steamers upon
the ocean connected with it. It takes property direct from Chicago to Livrerpool. It receives property on the continent of Europe, and delivers at all the various points of our country west,




10                     [SENATE
wherever there is a rail connection. It delivers property in Portland, Boston, or New York. It receives at St. Louis, and all the
western cities. It is altogether the greatest work of the kind in
this country, and, in some respects, in the world. This great
work is sustained by the provincial government, and by the States
through which it extends; and this, as well as the two southern
roads, are encouraged by their respective legislation, to enter into
the fullest competition for the western business. They are rivals
in such trade, conducting their business on a large scale, and if
fully understood and appreciated, it would certainly seem that we
should encourage, rather than obstruct and embarrass our lines.
While the railroad interest has been growing up, and extending
all over our country, a most important change has been wrought
thereby, in distributing trade through the whole year. Formerly
all the surplus productions of the western country were purchased
during the winter, on the credibf large commission houses, and
was held over for the opening of in erior navigation in the spring.
The value then, of course, regulated the success or failure of the
speculation of purchasing during the winter. It was, though necessary, always an uncertain mode of conducting the business.
The property must be held, and so held on the credit of some
parties. If the value rose, it was maintained; then acceptances
were met, and all went well, only the producer, who sold long before the property was marketed, in the reduced price which he
received, really paid a large share of the interest and charges. If
the value fell, on the opening of navigation, then the commission
house failed, and often the ruin extended widely into the interior.
All this is now changed. The difference in value, between the
wheat of the farmer, in his barns, and at the seaport, is only that
of the low rate of transportation, which competition lhas fixed.
The telegraph tells him daily, the eastern prices. His grain, his
pork, 1his cattle, are sold for cash, and the only time between the
payment of the value to him in the country, and the realization
of value at the place of sale, is the time required for transportation to market. It is the substitution of cash for credit; it is the
realization of actual value to the farmer. It is the saving of interest. It is the practical working of actual correct business, for
the slow and uncertain working of the old system. It is a great
reform. It will never go back. Business is, and will be sounder
than it has been. All this is of most benign influence. Precisely
the same benefits are derived in transportation westward on goods
and fabrics. Values are more uniform. Interest is saved. Large




No. 35.]                    11
capital or large credit is less necessary. Now, who is to deny
that very much of this has resulted from the railroad? The length
of time calculated for the transit from St. Louis, Chicago, &c., to
New York, by the various avenues, is correctly understood, and
the quick route has been adopted for valuable property. In the
uncertain and unfinished state of the canal, for many years back,
the time of transit upon it has largely increased, and has been uncertain. This has forced property on to the railroad, and, beyond
all question, has stimulated the construction of'them. The great
cities at the east, have seen the necessity of direct and extended
connection with the i'nterior. They have felt the value of their
railroads, and they encourage and sustain them. All these reasons have grown up the railroad interest to a position of necessity
and conceded strength. Their position and their strength is beyond our power of control, except that only we can cripple our
own roads, and thus retire from WIe competition.
The completion of the canal, now so near at hand, is most
earnestly desired. We shall then, with our two railroads, have a
strong position to enable us to preserve the western trade. It
has been the opinion of men of large experience, of intimate connection with commerce, and the best powers of forming sound
opinions, that our railroads, strengthened to meet the competition
of other lines, would draw business to the canals, which would
otherwise leave our State, and seek other markets.
We cannot monopolize trade any longer, but we can invite, and
the spirit and effort with which that is done, will have its influence.
For some time after the Reciprocity treaty with England, we
had a considerable business in the carrying of English bonded
goods through our State. Now they have left our ports, and our
lines, and taken the northern route. There is obviously a tendency, in the ports of the great western lakes, to get up a direct
trade with England, and, accordingly, we begin to see such measures in progress. These, while they divert trade from our city,
strengthen other lines, which are under the, power of interests
entirely antagonistic to New York. We can't afford to add to the
charges on our lines, when so little turns the property. The small
amount, derived from tolls on the railroads, will be a poor compensation for the loss of business, and the depreciation of property
in our State. The city of New York may far better be taxed an
equivalent amount, and have trade left free, than to have tolls
put upon the railroads. She cannot have her trade through
foreign routes, and through rival cities.




12                    [SENATE
There should be no feeling of jealousy towards our railroads,
because they have grown up a large business. Their profits have
been very limited, and by no means such as to excite any apprehension. It is far better for every man in the State, that they
should be prosperous and remunerative, rather than that they
should be taxed, depressed, and by the same course, pursued to —
wards them, destroyed. They have fulfilled precisely the course
that we should have asked of them. Had they fixed rates so high,
under a mistaken policy, as to allow the trade to be diverted,
which they otheru ise could have controlled, then we should have
justly complained of their managers, for pursuing a selfish and
unmanly course. Then we should have said that they were allowing a great boon to pass out of our hands, that they were depriving us, by their mistake or supineness, of that which, from their
position, we had a right to demand that they should preserve
to us.
Under all these circumstances, is it good faith to tax them?
Where is the limit of taxation?  The slightest, it is believed, will
turn the trade. A little more will ruin them, and destroy the property. They have not been able to derive the rate of profit on
their investment, which is guaranteed by the Legislature, in the
fundamental law, in respect to railroads. This law points out the
mode of examining this matter. The 33d section of the General
Railroad law of the State is as follows:
The Legislature may, when any such railroad shall be opened
for use, from time to time, alter or reduce the rate of freight, fare,
or other profits upon such road; but the same shall not, without
the consent of the corporation, be so reduced as to produce, with
said profit, less than ten per centum per annum on the capital
actually expended; nor unless, on an examination of the amounts
received and expended, to be made by the State Engineer and
Surveyor and Comptroller, they shall ascertain that the net income derived by the company, from all sources, for the year then
last past, shall have exceeded an annual income. of ten per cent
upon the capital of the corporation actually expended."
The plain meaning of this provision is very obvious, and at
once raises the question, how can we alter or reduce their profits
without their consent, so long as they do no wrong, and do not,
and cannot make a profit of ten per cent. Have we not made
a fair bargain with the railroad companies, that they, building and properly using the roads, may ask protection, and may
claim it against any application to reduce their business below ten
per cent. They never will realize that profit, it is very clear, but




No. 35.]                     13
it by no means follows that we can deprive them of any profit.
There are great principles involved in this matter. The character of the State is involved. The imagined popularity of every
cry against corporations, and against property, will not allow us
to overlook grave questions of interest, to the solemn faith of the
State. Now, to a plain understanding, this 33d section is a pledge
not to reduce profits. The railroad companies may claim what is
certainly sound, that we cannot do indirectly that which we cannot do directly; that the imposing tolls will reduce their profits,
and therefore that it is not right to tax them, to force them to
abandon a legitimate business which certainly it is for the benefit
of the great mass of the State that they should continue.
The right to alter or repeal the charters of these companies
when there has been an abuse of privilege or fraud is clear, but
it has not been exercised without cause, and our State has not as
yet interposed to reduce or impair the pecuniary value of such investments, made and held in good faith.
It is due to the great interests involved, that this question
should be examined in every aspect, with a view to a wise conclusion, because the action invoked, may be so disastrous.
There is still another view of this question. Though our railroads are within our own State, yet they so connect with other
States, both east and west, as to make them directly connected
with our works, and the comity which properly exists between the
States, should indicate to us the propriety of duly considering
their interests. It is very obvious, that beyond the bounds of our
State, both east and west, this matter of taxing our roads, is not
regarded with favor. Of course it will not be so regarded. Property passes over our railroads, consigned from Boston to Chicago,
to St. Louis, to Cincinnati, &c., and vice versa. We tax our railroads for this transit. There is no corresponding tax in Massachusetts, in Pennsylvania, Ohio, or any western State. This tax,
by the amount thereof, lessens the realized value to the eastern
manufacturer, and the western producer. It at once raises the
question as to the course of the State of New York. The measure
is canvassed first in respect to its bearing upon the question of
comity, and fair dealing in a common trade, on our part; and
second, in respect to its essential and legal propriety. Now as tc
the first, if it is a violation of fairness on our part, if it is in ap.
pearance, like taking an advantage of our position, and levying a
charge on the trade between the States through ours, we should
hesitate to adopt it; because States cannot even so well adopt




14                     [SENATE
such measures as individuals, and they always fail in the end in
this line of management. It would be regarded as unfair, and illiberal, and unbusiness-like by us, and means would be found to
thwart our aims, to get rid of the burthen, and it would be a lasting charge, and sore complaint against us, that we should be compelled to yield to and give up. We know how we regarded the
action of Pennsylvania when she sought by a change of gauge to
stop the property in passing through that State, It was here,
and in Ohio, considered as an act unworthy of a great State, and
this sentiment forced a repeal of the provision. Precisely so
Massachusetts and Ohio would justly consider our taxing measure,
and we could not hold the position, which we should there assume. This is just as certain as the tax amounts to anything for
it is the most natural feeling in our nature, to resist and countervail anything that is not fair. The course of New Jersey in respect to the trade and travel, through that State, between New
York and Philadelphia, is another example upon this view of the
matter. We have only to see what is the sentiment of our people in respect to that line, and we shall hesitate to place our State
in a similar position.
There is another or second view of this matter, in respect to the
rights of other States, which deserves our careful consideration.
Can we tax the transportation of the property of other States
on its transit through our State on railroads without violating the
provisions of the Constitution of the United States, which have
been held by the Supreme Court thereof, to give to Congress the
exclusive power to regulate commerce among the States, and which
provide that no State can, without the consent of Congress, lay
any impost or duties, on imports, or exports, or any duty of tonnage.
Now the very presentment of the proposition, will convince
any unprejudiced or disinterested person, that there is much to
be considered. We seek to tax the property of citizens of Massachusetts, on its way through our State, to Ohio, for the benefit of
our treasury. This tax is to be paid by the producer or consumer, and is no part of the cost of transportation, and no benefit
to the party who does not furnish the transportation, but on the
contrary, a burthen. It is not like the tolls on the canal, which
are a part of the proper cost of transportation, because they are
what the State is entitled.to, by virtue of its having constructed,
and owning the canal. The tolls are not a tax on the transportation on the canal. The tolls on the railroad are nothing else but




No. 35.]                    15
a tax, entirely unnecessary as a means of aiding, procuring or
sustaining the transportation.  The transportation on the railroads would be just the amount of the tax less to the producer or
consumer of tlhe property, if there was no toll, and all the cost,
expenses, and profit of the business, would be fully paid. Not
so on works owned by the-State. If there could be no tolls for
the use of the State's canal, then the canal would not have been
made.
We can't refuse this right of passage, if it is paid for. There
is not in our organization any principle upon which we can make
citizens of other States pay tolls, or head money on themselves,
or taxes on their property, in passing through our State, or on
coming in to it. The whole has been fully paid for to the railroad
up to this time, without any tax, and will continue to be so paid.
If we attempt to tax the transportation, and thereby increase the
cost, that excess is no more, and no less, than demanding from
citizens of Ohio and Massachusetts, payment for a license to pass
through our State. Upon this subject, and as presenting it in the
plainest and most forcible manner, reference is made to a report
in this Senate made by the late Charles A. Mann, which may be
found as Senate Document, No. 38, for 1851. The whole question
in that report, is presented with a clearness and breadth which
always marked the acts of the distinguished author, and as it was
fully sustained by the Legislature, it will well repay, as it deserves,
a careful and thoughtful reading. Nothing since that day has
changed its force or application; on the contrary, the course of
trade has strengthened and confirmed everything then presented.
The following extract from that report is here presented as bearing directly upon that branch of the question:
" The State governments hold the right of way, through their
jurisdiction, in trust for the use and benefit of the public; and in
the reason and nature of things, they possess no more power to
obstruct the use of the rights of way thus held, or to monopolize
their use, than they do to obstruct or monopolize the natural
highways-the navigable water-courses of the country. Commerce am(,ng the States, is doubtless, by the provisions of the
Constitutionl of the United States, to be as free and unrestrained
on land as on water. No one would probably claim or insist that
this State could, by prohibitory laws, exclude from our borders
the property of citizens of other States or countries, brought here
for the legitimate purposes of commerce, or prevent our own citizens from carrying their property.to other States or countries for
market. Such regulations would be a direct interference with the
powers of Congress, "to regulate commerce with foreign nations




~16`~~ I         [S arE
and among the several States." Nor will it be claimed that the
State government has the power to tax for the sole purpose of
filling its treasury, the transportation of property of citizens of
other States through or over any part of our jurisdiction, or the
property of our own citizens on its way to market in other States,
in case the same is transported on our common public highways.
If the citizen of Ohio comes to the line of our jurisdiction with
his wagon load of wheat destined to market, the State government
has no power to meet him, as he enters our borders, and demand
of him the payment of a toll or tax on each bushel of wheat in
his wagon, for the privilege or right of passing with his load over
our common public highways or through our jurisdiction. The
Constitution of the United States has given to the citizens of all
the States the free right of way into and through the several
States. It is expressly adjudged by the Supreme Court of the
United States, in the emigrant passenger cases, (7 Howard's U.
S. Reports, page 464,)'that Congress has regulated commerce
and intercourse with foreign nations and between the several
States by willing that it shall be free; and it is therefore not left
to the discretion of each State in the Union either to refuse a
right of passing to persons. or property through her territory, or
to exact a duty for permission to exercise it.' The court also, in
the same case, say: "A right to exclude is a power to tax; and
the converse of the proposition is also true, that a power to tax
is a power to exclude.'
"Mr. Justice McLean, giving the opinion of the court, holds
the following language:'If persons migrating to the Western
States may be compelled to contribute to the revenue of Massachusetts, of New York, or Louisiana, whether for the support of
paupers or penitentiaries, they may with equal justice be subjected
to the same exactions in every other city or State through which
they are compelled to pass, and thus the unfortunate immigrant,
before he arrives at his destined home, may by made a pauper by
oppressive duties on his transit. Besides, if a State may exercise this right of taxation or exclusion of a foreigner, on a pretext that he may become a pauper, the same doctrine will apply
to the citizens of other States of this Union, and thus the citizens of the interior States, who have no ports on the ocean, may
be made tributary to those who hold the gates of exit and entrance
to commerce.'
"In the steamboat case of Ogden vs. Gibbons, (9 Wheaton,
200,) Chief Justice Marshall says, in speaking of the extent of
the power to regulate commerce among the States:'-It is almost
laboring to prove a self-evident proposition, since the sense of
mankird, the practice of the world, the contemporaneous assumption and continued exercise of the power, and universal acquiescence, have so clearly established the right of Congress over navigation and the transportation of both men and their goods, as not
only incidental to, but actually of the essence of the power to
regulate commerce.'




No. 35.]                     17
"If a State government has no power to tax commerce or transportation carried on within her borders on the common public
highways, and navigable rivers within its jurisdiction, does the
power exist to tax the same commerce or trade when carried on
our railroads, plank roads and turnpikes, constructed for the public use by the government; or in other words, does the state, by
authorising the right of way over its soil, to be improved by private capital and enterprise, for the purpose of facilitating the
operations of commerce and intercourse, acquire a monopoly of
the right of way thus improved? for " a power to tax is a power
to exclude;" and a power to exclude confers the power of making
the right of way a monopoly, and thus subjecting the right to use
rail, plank, and turnpike roads, so far as they are the instruments
of carrying on or regulating commerce between the states, to the
absolute and unrestricted control of the State governments.
"Railroads are a new and improved mode of land transportation, not unlike in their effect upon the trade and business of the
country, to the application of steam power to the propelling of
vessels on water. When this state granted the right to the exclusive use of steam power for propelling vessels on the Hudson
river, to Fulton and Livingston, it did ljot take away, impair, or
in terms, interfere with the rights of navigation, which existed
prior to the invention of steamboats in the methods theretofore
used. Yet the Supreme Court held, in the case of Ogden vs.
Gibbons, (9 Wheaton, 200,) that the grant to Fulton and Livingston, of the exclusive right of transporting persons or property by
steam power, was an.interference with commerce between the
states, and was therefore unauthorised by law, and void.
Chief Justice Taney, in the case before referred to, (7 Howard,
492,) says: " We are all citizens of the United States, and as
members of the same community, must have the right to pass and
re-pass through every part of it, without interruption, as freely
as in our own State; and a tax imposed by a State for entering its
territories or harbors, is inconsistent with the rights which belong
to citizens of other states, as members of- the Union, and with the
objects which that Union was intended to attain. Such a power
in the States could produce nothing but discord and mutual irritation, and they very clearly do not possess it."
The citizens of other states who use the long lines of transportation, are deeply interested in the legislation of states and nmunicipalities through which they pass, and they scrutinize them
with a sharpness equal to their interest. The citizen of Ohio, or
of Illinois, is often more affected by the facilities of the obstructions of our railroads, than are the majority of our own citizens,
because they are valuable to him as the way to market, by and
over which he sells and buys his wares. He feels directly any
burthen imposed upon the line of trade, and such feeling will as[Senate, No. 35.1             2




18                      [SENATE
suredly be followed by the most natural and common impulse, to
resist what he deems imposition and unlawful, or to seek another
line, rather than to submit to what he deems wrong.
The undersigned has endeavored to present this question in a
plain light, under the conviction that it is entirely contrary to
the interests of the State, that it is unwarranted by authority,
that its consequences will be disastrous, that it will bring us into
disrespect and collision with other States, and finally, that it is
contrary to the spirit of the age.
RICHARD B. CONNOLLY.




THE PRO RATA QUESTION.
WHAT IS THE TRUE POLICY
OF THE
STATE OF NEW YORK?
DISCUSSED BY
J. W. BROOKS, ESQ.
ALBANY:
WEED, PARSONS & COMPANY.
1860.








PREFACE.
TO THE PUBLIC:
In anticipation of the contest which is now taking place
before the Legislature of the State of New York, in regard to
the imposition of restrictions upon the carrying trade of our
railways, the undersigned addressed a letter to JOHN W.
BROOKS, Esq., of Boston, asking his views on the subject.
The following reply, though written in December last, is remarkably pertinent to the present state of the discussion, and
will throw much valuable light on all the questions involved.
It is worthy of the careful attention, both of those who
enact our laws and those whose interests are to be affected by
them.
GEORGE H. THACHER.
ALBANY, Jan. 28, 1860.








DISCUSSION
ON THE
PRO RATA FREIGHT LAW.
In considering what the effect would be upon the New
York Railroads, and upon the State of New York, to
have her roads embarrassed in their efforts to procure
business from the West, their geographical position and
that of their rival lines must be examined.
The business of the Western States has several centres, to and from, or through which, the traffic of the
various districts passes. The order in which these are
geographically situated, most favorable to the New York
Central Road, are somewhat as follows:
1st. Detroit, through which passes most of the traffic
of the State of Michigan, including that of Lake Superior.
2d. Cleveland, through which passes the business of
the northern portion of Ohio, the most of Indiana, the
southerly half of Illinois, a portion of north Missouri
and of southern Iowa.




3d. Chicago, to which converges the business of the
northern part of Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, part of
Iowa and a part of north Missouri.
4th. St. Louis, through which passes a large portion
of the business of Missouri, a portion of Kansas, and
much of the lower Mississippi valley generally.
5th. Cincinnati, through which passes much of the
business of the southern part of Ohio, the Ohio valley
below Cincinnati, and a portion of the business of the
lower Mississippi valley.
The distances of these various points, through which
the business of the respective districts is drained, to New
York, are as follows:
I.- DETROIT TO NEW YORK:
Miles,
1. Via Great Western, N. Y. Central and Hudson River,.. 676
2. "Toledo, Lake Shore and Erie,.776
3. " Steamer to Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, 681
4. " Steamer to Dunkirk and New York and Erie,... 680
5. " Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia,.  765
6. "Toledo, Cleveland, Wheeling and Baltimore and
Ohio,.................-..     881
II.- CLEVELAND TO NEW YORK:
1. Via Lake Shore, N. Y. Central and Hudson River,...  624
2. " Lake Shore and New York and Erie,. -602
3. " Pittsburgh and Philadelphia,-.               591
4. " Cleveland and Pittsburgh to. Wheeling and Baltimore and Ohio,..                           707
III.- CIICAGO TO NEW YORK:
1. Via Michigan Central, Great Western, N. Y. Central
and Hudson River................... 960




7
Miles.
2. Via Michigan Southern, Lake Shore and New York
and Erie,............... 957
3. " Michigan Southern, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and
Philadelphia, -...,,,...,  947
4. " Pittsburgh and Fort Wayne and Pennsylvania Central, -......... 908
5. " Pittsburgh and Fort Wayne to Alliance, Cleveland
and Pittsburgh to Wheeling and Baltimore and
Ohio,  -.,.....        9  9.. *. 1031
IV.- ST. LouiS TO NEW YORK:
1. Via Chicago, Michigan Central, Great Western, New
York Central and Hudson River,..   1341
2. " Terre Haute, Alton and St. Louis, Wabash Valley,
Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo and Albany,  -... 1197
3. " Terre Haute, Alton and St. Louis, Bellefontaine and
Crestline, Cleveland, Lake Shore, New York
and Erie,.,,,..                   1133
4. " Crestline, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, 1122
5. " Ohio and Mississippi to Cincinnati, Marietta, N.
W. Virginia and Baltimore and Ohio,...1116
V.- CINCINNATI TO NEW YORK:
1. Via Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati, Lake Shore,
New York Central and Hudson River,.      879
2. " Cleveland, Lake Shore, New York and Erie,-....   857
3. " Columbus, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia,..   711
4. " Columbus, Central Ohio to Wheeling, Baltimore
and Ohio,...............................  826
5. " Marietta, North Western Virginia and Baltimore
and  Ohio,............................  776
From  these distances, it appears that the New York
roads can never, under any circumstances, be anything
but co-workers with the more southern lines, in th(
transportation business between the West and the cit)
of New York. They cannot monopolize it, nor cai




8
they even participate in it, except at low rates of transportation.
From  those districts, which, from their age, wealth,
and the magnitude of their business, have made the city
of New York what it is, the New York Central is so
much longer than the more southern routes, that it must
work at a much less rate per mile than they do, or it
would lose the traffic altogether.
A well-established and popular passenger route will
continue, at a moderately higher rate of charge, to carry
a decreasing proportion of the passenger business; but
even in this class of traffic, if a difference is long allowed,
it will finally prove fatal to the interest of the road charging the higher rate, while in the transportation of freight,
the line charging a higher rate than another, between the
same points, at once loses the business. It is, therefore,
clear, that the New York Central cannot make a rate of
charge independently of the other lines competing for
the same business. Should it charge more, it would get
none of the traffic; should it charge less, the trade of
the other lines would at once be diverted, and they
forced to adopt the same rates.
Much bitter and expensive experience has settled the
principle, that the rates between all competing points
must be alike over all the routes, which would share in
the carrying trade, irrespective of their length.
As no two of these routes are of the samie length, the
prices charged upon any articles of freight between two
competing points, must be at a different rate per mile




9
upon each of the routes-less per mile upon the longer,
and more per mile upon the shorter line.
From Chicago to New York, by the shortest route, in
connection with the New York Central Road, is 960
miles; by the Baltimore and Ohio it is 1050 miles.
The former would get about 7 per cent more per mile
than the latter for the same business.
From Cincinnati to New York, by the shortest route
in connection with the New York Central Road, is 879
miles; the same via Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, is 711
miles. The former must, consequently, carry for about
23 per cent less per mile than the latter.
Each road will, therefore, get more per mile upon
some of its long traffic than its rival lines, and less upon
other of its long traffic.
It has been found in practice, that the only equitable,
as well as practicable method of dividing the price
received for the transportation of freight between competing points, over a route composed of several separate
roads, is, by the distance carried upon each road, a pro
rata per mile, with such moderate allowances for ferries,
&c., as may be equitable to the parties who support them
for the common benefit.
Anay road which would not recognize this principle,
and should insist upon a uniform rate upon freight from
all sources, would soon lose a large portion of its long
traffic. If, for example, the New York Central would not
take its pro rata portion of the through rates with the
roads west and south of Cleveland, those lines would




10
send their business from all of Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana,
Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, in fact
the business of the whole of the Ohio and Mississippi
valley, by the more southern routes to New York. Any
other plan of division would take from one road a portion of its earnings to give to another. It inevitably
results, that every line participating in the long business,
must carry the same kinds of freight at different rates of
charges, when coming from different competing points,
at lower rates when the road forms a part of the longer
line, and at higher rates when it forms part of the shorter
line, between the competing points.
It may be suggested, that the through rates are lower
than is necessary; this may well be left to those whose
daily business is but a continued experience, qualifying
them as judges in this matter. Except in cases of
unsettled competition, when the public gets all the
advantage, the interest of the companies will lead them
to procure as high rates as the business will bear.
Before the great increase of railroads in the Western
States, the business of each district of that great region
had but one general way to get to and from a market.
The trade of the Ohio and Mississippi valleys proper
went via New Orleans, and that of the lakes by the Erie
canal. Rates of freight could then be changed without
so sensibly affecting the course of the traffic, and without
very materially reducing the area drained in any particular direction.  Moderate changes would, in those days,
rather have affected the production, than changed the




11
current of traffic. The multitude of railroads which now
lattice the Western States, have rendered all the natural,
as well as the artificial channels of trade, accessible
throughout every part of that region.
Facilities for transportation have increased upon all
the outlets for Western freight, methods of management
have been simplified, the cost reduced, certainty, dispatch
and safety very much enhanced, not only upon the Ohio
and Mississippi, in efforts to take business via New
Orleans, but as well upon the northern artificial avenues
to the seaboard.
If the rate of freight between St. Louis and New York
be raised but a little too high, a large proportion of it
will go via New Orleans; and that requiring a more
speedy route to market, will take the river via Cincinnati
and Wheeling, reaching the seaboard by the Baltimore
and Ohio and Pennsylvania Central Roads. The same
may be said of the rate from Cincinnati;. and whatever
changes the route of freight from these points, will also
change that of two-thirds of the whole West, and other
kindred causes will alike affect the rest. It is, therefore,
wholly out of the power of the railroad lines to control
the price of the long freight; they must take it at the
rates at which it is moving through other channels, or
lose it altogether.
A large proportion of the long freight, between Boston,
New York, and other eastern cities, and the Mississippi
valley, as high up as west of Chicago, now goes round
via New Orleans, and, but for the low inland rates of the




12
past two years, the increased facilities in coasting and
river transportation would have made serious inroads
upon the business of the northern lines, which run eastward and westward.
The margin for profit upon all produce transactions
and mercantile business generally, in the Western States;
has been reduced by the extended use of the magnetic
telegraph and the increased facilities for transportation,
thereby rendering all holders of property for transportation
very sensitive to small changes in the rates, which would
not, in years past, have been noticed. These and other
causes have rendered the tenure, by which the East and
West lines hold a portion of the traffic of the West, such
as to require constant and watchful care. A very moderate
increase of rates, especially while the Ohio and Mississippi
are free from ice, would largely reduce the area of country
drained to the eastward.
Within the year, another natural avenue of trade with
the West has been opened to use. A considerable number
of vessels are now loaded at ports upon the lakes for a
direct European trade; and the St. Lawrence outlet will
be rendered a still more formidable competitor by the
now opened Grand Trunk Railway, which can transfer
produce directly from its cars into vessels bound for
Europe, at Montreal or'Portland, and will be likely to
reap a large return traffic, in merchandise, with the West.
New York city has been made what she now is, by the
trade of the West. She once held the only avenue to that
source of wealth, and was the sole market for a vast




13
region. Within two years, three new and powerful routes
have been opened from all this region to the seaboard,
all adverse to the interests of New York; the Pennsylvania
Central and Baltimore and Ohio upon the south, and the
Grand Trunk upon the north.
The increasing disposition to embark in a direct trade
between the lake ports and Europe, renders the present
a time when great prudence and foresight should be
brought to a consideration of all matters calculated to
affect the current of trade passing through the State of
New York.
It may be urged, that as the trade of the West can reach
New York as well by the more southern routes, as those
of New York State, the experiment of a light toll might
be put upon the latter without proving eminently hazardous to the western business.
The answer to this would be, that, although the other
lines are as short, and in many cases shorter, to New
York, than the New York routes, yet they are controlled
and managed by an interest wholly adverse to that of
the State of New York.
With all these avenues opened from rival cities to the
source of trade which has created New York, her every
effort should be exerted to add to and not reduce her
facilities for trade with the West. Is it wise for New
York to be indebted to rival interests for her trade with
the West? Is it prudent to allow her traffic to pass
through rival cities before reaching her?




14
It is well worth while to inquire into the relative
distances between the great centres of Western trade and
the cities of New York, Philadelphia and Baltimore.
They are as follows:
Miles.
From Detroit to New York,......                     676
From Detroit to Philadelphia,.......  677
From Detroit to Baltimore,................. 695
From Cleveland to New York,       —........  624
From Cleveland to Philadelphia,...........      03
From Cleveland to Baltimore,..                   521
From Chicago to New York,..  960
From Chicago to Philadelphia,...                     820
From Chicago to Baltimore,...         45
From St. Louis to New York,............. 1,1.97
From St. Louis to Philadelphia,..                  1,034
From St. Louis to Baltimore,.                        9.... 930
From Cincinnati to New York,......-8....... —-... 879
From Cincinnati to Philadelphia,......  623
From Cincinnati to Baltimore,..-...                  640
From  this it appears, that very large portions of the
West are much nearer to Philadelphia and to Baltimore
than to New York, via the New York roads, and some of
the most wealthy and populous districts are more than two
hundred miles nearer.  During the year 1858, by an arrangement between the four trunk lines reaching to New
York, Philadelphia and Baltimore, the rates of freight from
Boston and New York to the West were fixed at a price
somewhat less when, forwarded via Philadelphia and
Baltimore, than when sent directly inland from  Boston
or New York. This, of course, made the rates from
Philadelphia and Baltimore considerably lower than from




15
New York, and the injury to the lines through the State
of New York was immediately felt. Under this arrangement, goods were taken from New York to Baltimore and
Philadelphia, thence west to the Ohio and Mississippi
rivers, then north as far as Galena, and thence east to
the interior of Illinois. The western importing merchants
directed their importations to the more southern cities,
thus diverting from and depriving New York of the
advantages of their importing business, and its roads of
their carrying trade.
In view of the fact, that the western importer is likely
to make his home purchases in the city where his imports
arrive, it is of eminent importance to New York that the
passage of their imports through her city should be
retained. This clearly cannot be done, excepting the rate
of freight to the West be as low as from the other cities.
These more southern cities are but just entering upon
the advantages of their position. Want of communication has heretofore excluded them from participating in a
trade built up and until now monopolized by New York.
Philadelphia's population has increased to nearly half
a million without these advantages, and her progress with
them will certainly be greatly accelerated.
Both the Pennsylvania Central and Baltimore and
Ohio railroads, were built from motives of state and city
policy. A profitable investment for capital was not the
moving cause for the construction of either: they were
constructed for the promotion of the interests of their
respective States and the cities where they terminate.




16
Their destiny cannot be fulfilled, excepting by taking
to their cities a large share of the trade of the West.
The means of defence possessed by New York, to
counteract the effect produced by these new rivals for a
trade heretofore her own, are simply the New York
Central and New York and Erie railroads. If there is a
way by which these lines can better facilitate the long
traffic, or by which it can be done at a still more moderate rate of compensation, it is greatly for the interest of
the State of New York that such a method should be
devised. The canal can carry the heavy goods, but the
freight which goes by rail, will find its way over some
one of the railway lines. It is therefore for the interest
of New York to enable her roads to carry all freight
which the most liberal policy and well devised system
can obtain, and as the rate is the prime moving cause to
direct the current, every possible accommodation should
be given to business from competing points, and the
most liberal policy towards the New York roads is absolutely essential to enable them to do and retain this
business. Not only does much of the present trade of
New York with the West depend upon this, but also that
of all its future increase.
It has been suggested, that it was unfair to charge rates
for local business, materially higher for the distances
carried than those for through business. A little consideration will exhibit the fallacy of this view.  The
especial advantages resulting from the Central Road to
the traffic along its line and to the long or foreign traffic,




17
are largely in favor of the business upon its line. By
its construction and its vast equipment, it has provided an
avenue and market for the business upon its line throughout the whole year, whereas but a few years ago, this
whole business was at a stand-still for five or six months
in the whole year, excepting so much of it as was done by
teaming. From it, this community has received all the
advantages derived from the difference between railroad
charges and the cost of teaming, or all the advantages
arising from a business of twelve months in each year,
instead of six or seven months only.
The simple question bearing upon the rate for local
charges, should be, are they in amount just and proper?
They most certainly are if about equal to the usual
charge of other railroads and will then no more than
yield a fair income upon the capital invested in the
enterprise. It is neither wrong nor unjust to the people
along the line, that the foreign traffic should be done at
lower rates, provided that it is not done at less than cost.
In the latter case the company would be rendered less
able to do the local business at a fair rate, but as long as
the through business paid any profit at all, it would, to
just the extent of that profit, render the company able to
modify its local charges, and still act justly as trustees to
its stockholders.
All thinking men concede that unprofitable railroads
do not satisfactorily respond to the just expectation of
their patrons. It is for the interest of all parties that
every enterprise of public utility, should be remunera2




18
five to those who engage in it, and especially is it for the
interest of the community, directly reaping the advantages of a good, safe, well-managed railroad, or rather
reaping the inconveniences and discomfort of an unsafe,
unreliable one for the transaction of their daily business.
These positions being true, it is for the interest of all
concerned that the New York road should do all the
through business it can procure, from which any profit
can be gleaned, even if the rate be very low indeed.
The cost of doing contingent business is not as great
as that of the original or fixed business; there are certain very large expenses not influenced by the amount
of business, such as the decay of all perishable materials,
in the track, bridges, stations, wooden portions of cars,
&c., a great variety of expenditures which, in the aggregate, would probably amount to one-third of the whole.
The expenses which should be regarded as properly
attachable to any new business, procured from abroad by
competition, are but about two-thirds as much as those
chargeable to the business already done, With this just
view of the cost of new business, as compared with that
already being performed, it is clear that new business
can be sought at pretty low rates and still yield a profit.
I have said that parties interested in the local business
should not complain unless the long business should be
done at less than cost, and the company thus be rendered less able to do the local business at a fair rate.
There may be exceptional cases; if, from any causes
of competition, connected with the foreign traffic, the




19
road is liable to lose its hold upon that traffic, it is for
the local interest that every method should be taken to
retain it, even should it be carried for a time below cost.
Better suffer this for a time than risk the permanent loss
of a profitable business.
In this matter, it seems to me that the interests of the
company and of its local patrons are the same; there
can no possible harm result to the local patrons from
any rate yielding a profit, at which the long business
may be done, but rather good in proportion to the profit
obtained upon it.
Nothing can be clearer, than that the New York roads
could not keep their local charges as low as they now
are, should they lose the through business. They would
assuredly lose it at a higher rate of charge, for it must be
evident that being carried, as it is obliged to be carried,
at a low figure, yet it is the highest that can be obtained.
There is only left for consideration, whether the profits
realized are exorbitant; whether they yield such dividends as may justly subject them to the complaint of the
community; the reverse of this latter proposition would
seem to be the case, as exemplified by the low rate at
which the stock may be purchased in the market.
The foregoing considerations, lead to the following
general results:
1st. The increase of railroads throughout the whole
West has been so great that every part of that region,
which was once solely tributary to New York, has now
several avenues to other and rival markets.




20
2d. The number and character of the new outlets
from the West, decide by the natural laws of trade what
goods shall go by canal and what by more expeditious
routes, and no power rests with the State of New York,
or her railroads, to change it, and any abridgment of
the freedom or ability of the New York railroads to
compete for the long business, will only throw that business upon other lines and send it to other markets.
3d. The cities lying to the south of New York, having
just been brought as near to all, and much nearer to
large portions of the West than New York, the prosperity of the latter city requires that the railroads of
New York should carry the long business at the lowest
possible rates of charge, consistent with their being kept
in a requisite state of efficiency.
4th. But about two-thirds of the operating expenses
are directly increased with the increase of business, and
therefore the cost properly to be estimated against new
business, which has other outlets as rivals to the road, is
but about two-thirds the average cost of the whole, and
thus it is fair to estimate that a profit may be obtained
on such business, though the price received for it be
only equal to the average cost of the whole; but if the
local business be done at the same rate, it is clear that.
the entire capital of the company would be lost.
5th. All that portion of the State drained by the road,
and to the city of New York, is equally interested with
the company in having all the business done upon it,
which can be procured and which will yield any profit




21
whatever, as it all tends to increase the ability of the
company to charge moderate local rates, and benefit the
State at large by inducing business through its territory.
6th. As the business done against the competition of
rival routes, though taken at rates below a fair price, is
charged as high as those routes will carry for, the pecuniary advantages rendered to the people who furnish it,
are far less than those rendered to interior localities,
where the railroad charges during much of the year, are
greatly lower than any other means of transportation,
and all through the year it furnishes extensive facilities
not otherwise attainable.
7th. The city and State of New York having just lost
their monopoly of the trade of the West, must look to
their two great railroads in their effort to retain a fair
share of it, and happily in this the interests of the State,
fairly understood, are entirely identical with those of the
roads.
J. W. BROOKS.